The Bill Simmons Podcast - Tatum Theories, Finals Unicorns, NBA Draft Buzz, and Worst GM Jobs With Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: June 13, 2022

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo as they discuss their NBA big board and who they have going in the top three (02:31). As people revisit Andre Iguodala winning the 2015 Finals MVP, Bill and Ryen debate if a losing player can win a Finals MVP (27:35). They also discuss Steph Curry’s nuclear shooting that lifted the Warriors to a Game 4 victory and if there is such a thing as a Finals unicorn (34:47). Next, they dive into Jayson Tatum’s Finals struggles (52:44). Is he really injured or is he simply showing his young age against an experienced veteran team? Draymond Green has been consistently bad in the Finals and Ryen presents a theory to why Green hasn’t been able to get it going (01:09:50). Lastly, they list which GM positions in the NBA are the worst and why (01:15:17). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Ryen Russillo Producers: Steve Ceruti and Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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to Tuesday this week, because I'm going to have podcasts tonight and then Monday night after game five. The rewatchables will run on Tuesday night and you can take that to the bank, the blood bank. There's your hint for the episode. Coming up on this one, Ryan Rosillo, Sunday as usual and we're going to be talking about what we've seen

in the finals so far, what we're expecting for the next three games and a whole bunch more. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're taping this. It is 5.30 Sunday night Pacific time. Ryan Russillo is here.

A little bit of a dead time before game five of the NBA finals. The U.S. Open is this week. Sports is about to get lit, Russillo. NBA draft. Yeah, it's getting a little lit. NBA draft. Do you have your top three? When are you going to announce it? You doing a special show? What's going on? What's your one, two, three? When do we

find out? Yeah, it doesn't stop over here. Put a lot of time into watching the guys. I kind of make myself watch it. I go, okay, pretend you hate this guy and watch it. And then I'll go, pretend you love this guy. And then pretend whatever. I'd still leaning towards paulo just one possession he set two screens off the ball came back got the ball

waited didn't dribble waited for somebody else to release past it went down then came back out somebody drove away from the help and then he dished it off to mark williams for a dunk i'm like he did five or six things on one possession so uh as great as he is with the ball in his hands i think he's completely underrated with what he does and how he fits into a team that had multiple ball handlers. So I still feel like I'm leaning Paolo,

but I understand, you know, it's a tough one, man. They're really good. I like all those guys. And plus you have a little chess going on with the two and three teams,

right? OK, see, they don't want anyone to know who they like the most and I'm sure Houston doesn't either. And I'm sure at this point they probably, each of those teams probably to know who they like the most, and I'm sure Houston doesn't either. And I'm sure at this point, they probably, each of those teams probably has a guy they like the most,

but you don't want to let that out. You know, it's a little like when Danny liked Tatum, but then realized he could get Tatum at three because the Lakers had already tipped their hand that they were definitely taking Lonzo too, and the Lakers could have more fun with that. I think this time it's going to be a lot of secretive chess going on. I would agree. I also think it's kind of funny too.

I don't know where I was reading it, but it was something about how Houston's in the great spot. You know what? To me, that's loser talk. Maybe it works out because Houston has the stress taken away from them and the guy who goes third ends up being the best player. That's not

a ridiculous statement at all. That could definitely happen with whoever goes third. But if you do this for a living and you're in charge of a team, you're going to have a preference. So to say, well, cool, I have no stress, to me, that's a fearful approach to it. And I really don't think people understand, like most GMs aren't like that.

None of these guys, like, have you ever heard one guy, ever, who was involved in decision-making that said, you know, deep down, I don't really trust myself with this? Well, I guess the only case you could make is if you felt like the three guys were so even that one was falling to you and then basically, you know, from a job preservation standpoint, it'd be like, well, that was the guy that was left. That's the only, the job preservation piece is the only thing that I would say. It's a massive, because then if you're wrong, you can go, well, we had a third. So if you're talking about the- We knew he was the third best guy, but that's who landed. If you're talking about the preservation of the way you're treated after the fact,

three or four years from now, yeah, it's advantageous to have the decision taken away from you. But I don't know that any of these guys operate that way. Do you have a three? Do you have an order now? I don't. I got to say, the Celtics thing has just completely sidetracked me. There's been 22 playoff games. All of them have been tense.

How many have you gone to? There's been no easy series. I think I've been to eight, seven or eight. But of them have been tense. How many have you gone to? There's been no easy series. I think I've been to eight. Seven or eight. But every game has been tense. Even the Nets series was like the most competitive sweep I've ever watched in my life. And they easily could have lost a couple of those.

So, I'm going to dive in. The most interesting thing to me, even beyond the 1-2-3, is just Sacramento at four when the draft restarts with kind of a seminal pick for them. They have to nail it. Either they have to turn that guy

into an awesome player, or they have to trade him for somebody who's awesome. But I feel like they have to come out of this draft with some sort of direction and purpose for the next five years. And it can't just be let's take Ivy and hope he can play with Fox. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

It's got to be a level beyond that, right? I'm leaning towards it being exactly that. Because I watched Ivy all weekend, and he was awful in the St. Peter's game. I think the way it came out, if you looked at usage rate of power five players in college basketball, Edie for Purdue, who's the 7'11 guy. He played not only with one 1980 center. Williams, who would be a starting center for any other team, came off the bench. And then there's another guy, 50-something, who's enormous.

And all of these things are happening while Ivy is running what ended up being a really highly rated offense efficiency-wise. So you can't put like Painter's an awesome coach at Purdue. But when you watch all these Purdue games, I keep kind of defaulting to like, you know what? There's just not many people who move on a basketball court the way Ivy does. And it's not like he's just some guy like Tyrus Thomas who moves and you're like, oh my God, like Ivy's a better basketball player. And I'm not saying it's a

perfect, but I don't know. I like imagine being in Sacramento's office going like in any other version of this, we take Ivy four and we don't even think about it. So now we're going to do something else. Then if you do that, then you probably should just take Ivy four and hope, Hey, what if we have two insane attacking wings that can play with each other? Like, what if we do that?

Cause sometimes it actually can work, you know, like when only one guy can shot create, you have a problem. Yeah. So I, I think I'm actually kind of leaning towards if they take ivy i'd almost respect more he has a missed dunk against texas that i'm going to send you bill it's a missed dunk and it's in

my notes it's just that impressive wow yeah i i always do this with i probably overrate the finals what i'm watching when i start thinking about the draft because I just want guys, especially if it's in the top 12, that I can envision playing in the series I'm watching. I know people have made this point, but it just feels like these wings are so much more important than they were even three years ago. The fact that Wiggins was sitting there for anyone in the league. And granted, this has been the best case version of how his career could have turned out. I was so impressed with him. I watched game four again.

I was so impressed with him. He's like a legitimate playoff guy. Like he was crashing the boards. He was doing all the little stuff. I think he's been their second best player in the series. But I just feel like over and over again, I would default toward wings, six foot six, six foot seven range,

who can shoot and defend. I'm just always going to gravitate to those guys over whoever else you're throwing to me. I'm talking about when it gets a little more confusing, when we get to that four to 13 range. I just think those guys, you can always have those guys in a series like the one we're watching.

Then when it gets to somebody like Ivy, what would be the doppelganger for him in the playoffs? What do you see? It'd be like a Mitchell on Utah type of situation? What is it? Yeah, I actually think Mitchell's pretty good. If he turned into Donovan Mitchell, then you'd be thrilled. That's great. That's worth the fourth pick. Yeah. We're talking about somebody who's at worst a top 20 player and has flirted with higher rankings there when we all kind of loved him when, when Utah was probably exceeding some of the stuff, you know, they beat the thunder and then they had that epic series

with Denver where he and Jamal Murray were going at it. Like, you know, up until this season, some of the Mitchell playoff stuff was actually really good. If he's Mitchell, that's terrific, but I'd love to see him away from... It's tough to criticize Purdue's offense, as I point out, because statistically it was incredible, but him with space, Bill, once he has momentum with the basketball, the way he splits double teams at the top... You really like this guy. I do. I watched the under-19 stuff again, the final against France.

I always say, I'm a big movement guy. If you can move like that, if you're really that special and you can play, because there's some movement guys over the years where when I was younger, I'd fall in love with like, oh my God. It's like, yeah, but he sucks at basketball. I'd be talking to myself going, why do you like this guy? Because he moves well.

Is he any good at basketball? And the St. Peter's game, you know, is, is bad. It was really, really bad, but the kid was there two years. He improved dramatically and he's big too, man. He's, he's big for a wing. So I know that we've been talking about Sacramento, how like they're the one team that lands on that pick that can't take Ivy. You know, what are you just supposed to take Keegan Murray then?

Because you're afraid of the fit? Maybe some teams like Keegan better because he kind of checks a million boxes. Could you see him in this series? Yeah, I do. He's not the athlete that some of the other guys are, but he fits into whatever you're doing. Yeah, I do. You know, he's not the athlete that some of the other guys are. But he fits into whatever you're doing. Like, he adapts.

You know, he had to lead the show, and he had moments for Iowa where he was doing everything. I mean, fucking everything. He's incredibly smart. I also think he has kind of the right personality. We're never really worried about the guy. So that part of it is great. But I think, you know, when you're talking about athletes and why teams will go, so like the Jalen Brown pick is a perfect example. I asked the Celtics, I go, what was it?

What was it with Jalen Brown? They're like, you know what? At that point, the first two guys, everybody knew it was Simmons. Everybody knew it was Ingram. It was all over the place after that. And we just felt like his body, his profile, his athleticism, like it matched up with what one of those really good wings can be in the NBA and what everybody's searching for. And they nailed it, man.

They nailed it because the Brown stuff at Cal wasn't impressive. He physically was impressive. I don't think he was that great of a player back then. So I think that's what happens. I mean, to me, Ivy's far more, you know, he's not the same size as Jalen, but I don't think he was that great of a player back then. So I think that's what happens. To me, Ivy's far more... He's not the same size as Jalen, but I don't think... He's 6'4". Yeah.

He just looks bigger. He looks bigger out there. KFC updated his big board, and he has my guy Sohan at 8. That's an example of somebody I think could be in this series. Even next year as a rookie, I think, I feel like you could throw them out there for seven minutes a half and you would at least run around and do defensive stuff and just do energy stuff.

But, um, I can see him climbing. So hand is, he might be like the first guy you tell everyone, never defend help off of all the time, never close out. And,

but he also is one of those rare guys who can impact a basketball game by never scoring that's just what he does what about uh what about our arizona guy where does he fit in this he check guy master and like a jordan pool type guy coming off the bench or is he more than that i'm saying early first couple years of his career so we're wondering how many guys in this year's class would be out there in closing minutes of the NBA Finals because it's probably the list isn't... I'm saying who could get, realistically, who could play 12 to 15 minutes in one of these games we're watching.

I would bet on his personality, not being afraid. Like, before I knew anything about him, because I don't really follow the high school stuff until after. I'll go back and look at, like, okay, how many state titles did this guy win? I mean, almost all these guys' resumes are incredible. Like they're all Mr. Basketball from whatever state they're from. Right. you know most of them have you know there's a reason you know mark williams i was looking him up and it's like oh he ends up at img he's a five star and you know he put up a million points in some of these high school showcase things and he was like the fifth option for duke um mathren who i didn't know his background when i watched him i'm like this kid has to be from like a rough part of la or something just the way he carried himself i was like this guy he's seen some games yeah like this guy's seen some

shit and then i dug into it i was like oh wait he's from montreal and then i asked some teams and i go what was he like in interviews and they're like it's awesome they're like this guy is just like he i mean takes you through a story it was tough you. So it wasn't like this guy was, just because it's Montreal, sometimes us in the States can be like, oh, Montreal's awesome. That must have been sweet. Wait, so he's another guy for the Canadian national team in 24? That team's going to be really good. Yeah.

I mean, so the thing is, though, is that once I understood his story, which is rough, it's rough and it's challenging. Like this guy was in interviews kind of going like, this is it, man. This is all, this is it. Yeah. I can't fail at this. And so I know teams are really impressed with him. So yeah, back to the original point.

Like, I don't think he'd be scared. Griffin is another one who I think has a chance. So Moses Moody is like the cutoff line, right? Because I actually thought Moses Moody, especially in the playoffs, some of the run he was getting, looked pretty good in that last series. He's not even playing in this series.

So I look at Griffin, it's like, would he be as good as Moses Moody look in the Dallas series? Probably not. It's probably, I don't know, maybe it would be almost like a redshirt year in the NBA before he was able to play in a series like the one we're watching.

I don't know. He was pretty up and down in the tournament. As much as I enjoyed Duke, there would be moments where he did have the, what do we call it, the Wiggins, when the guy just disappears? You forget he's out there for a half hour? I don't think, I think we stopped doing that with Wiggins, right? Right, Wiggins graduated from it. He's no longer for a half hour. I don't think, I think we stopped doing that with Wiggins, right? Right. Wiggins graduated from it. He's no longer part-time invisible.

No, I mean, fuck. Yeah. No, he's been great. Those two offensive rebounds he had in game four, Bill,

probably as big as, I mean, the Curry shots are demoralizing, but those two offensive rebounds, if you'd like to put back the second one, I think it made it 94, 92 Boston. It was,

those were huge. You know what though? Let me? Let me follow up on AJ, though, because if he doesn't have the injury history, I think there's an argument that he could be at the top of the draft at the fifth pick. I mean, he shoots the hell out of it.

And he got stuck. He got stuck as the fourth or fifth option out there. And we're talking about somebody with a major, you know, high school profile. But he got hurt twice in high school. He got hurt again with Duke. So that's a little alarming. But he found a way to fit in, even though I think he's really good with the ball in his hands. He just wasn't going to get that many options at Duke.

That team was, I don't know how this draft class will work out, but there's a chance we're going to look back at that Duke team and go, holy shit. Like you already should be. Every time I watch their games to evaluate one of the guys, I just start laughing about how insanely talented it is. What was the Kentucky team that had Booker on it and a whole bunch of people that you look back now? And it just, it was pretty, it was,

I don't think they won the title. I think they were undefeated, then they lost. Was Booker six and minutes that year or something, too? Yeah, Booker was basically, he was like the fifth option for them. But I remember sometimes in college that'll happen where you look back and you can't believe all the people who were on the same team. Yeah, so that was, they had Towns, they had the Harrison twins who were a huge deal coming in.

Yeah. Willie Colley Stein. I lost some Harrison twins stock. Yeah. The Harrison twins who were a huge deal coming in. Yeah. Um, Willie, I lost some Harrison twins stock. Yeah. Uh, that was, that was like the Buzzfeed stock. All of a sudden it was $2.

I was, couldn't even unload it. Let's see. Booker, Booker was sixth and minutes. Yeah. Willie, Willie,

Willie, Willie, uh, the Harrison guys. I met him. And one of my favorite college players ever was ULIS. I loved the way he played. And then Trey Lyle's another lottery pick towns. And one of my favorite college players ever was Ulus. I loved the way he played. And then Trey Lyles, another lottery pick.

Towns. And then the other guy that was on that team who was like the epitome of the longer you stick around, the worse it gets is Poitras. Right. He was going to be a one and done. And then he's like, maybe I'll stick around. And then it was just kind of clear that he didn't. He got hurt, too. I think he didn't need to tear his ACL at some point some point too which has never worked out for him um all right so before we put a bow on

this how do you think it goes the one two three you could change your opinion in a week but right now you think orlando takes chet because i there's a lot of chet buzz right now for them it was so overwhelming jabari at the combine but sometimes I think in that setting where everybody's around each other, it just becomes like, and I was like, do you guys know, or is everyone just repeating what the other guy just said? Yeah. You know what I mean? Like sometimes that stuff can kind of happen. Uh, you know, there's a bit of a shake up there in the front office as well. I don't know how that much impacts it or how much that impacts it. You know, I just don't really know right now, man. I mean, it'd be totally guessing. My guess, I think Checo's one.

I think OKC takes Jabari. And I think Houston takes Palo. But I also wouldn't be surprised if Presti absolutely loved Palo and can't wait to take him. Or if he like really loved Jaden Ivey and did some sort of flipping two for four type thing. I think Presti is such a wild card.

He's done so many ballsy things over the years with the draft, right? I fully expect, like last year we found out he went all in on Mobley and was offering everything to move up. And Cleveland was like, no thanks. He was like, what about this? Cleveland was like, no thanks. Because they knew what they had with Mobley and was offering everything to move up. And Cleveland was like, no, thanks. He was like, what about this? Cleveland was like, no, thanks. Cause they knew what they had with Mobley. Um, was it number two or number three? I can't remember where he was. He was two. Um, but so

when he gets attached to somebody like the Harden Westbrook picks were pretty controversial at the time, you know? So I don't know what to expect from him. Cerruti, can you come on for a second? That was like you were asking if somebody can let you show up to somebody's house and be like, can Steve come out? Cerruti, can you come out of your room? What do you have Orlando doing? What's your intel? A couple weeks ago, I was

I think they're taking Jabari. Now, I think it's Chet. I think it's going to be Chet because I think he's, again, I said this a couple weeks ago on the pod, I think it's Chet. I think it's going to be Chet because I think he's, again, I said this a couple weeks ago on the pod, I think he fits the profile of the guy they want. There's been some weird stuff that's floated out about how they're kind of afraid at the top

and this is a pick that they can't miss. They need to get a guy and that's where I think the Japari stuff has come into it, which is weird because you would wonder, Ryan said this, Paulo is kind of the most polished and kind of ready-to-go guy in the draft. So if you're looking for a can't-miss guy or a guy that's going to play from day one, like, Paulo is, like, kind of the most polished and kind of ready-to-go guy in the draft. So if you're looking for a can't-miss

guy or a guy that's going to play from day one, like, you take Paulo. But I think, I don't know, man. There's just more stuff coming out of Jabari. I know you said you really like Jabari and you kind of gave him the stamp of approval a couple weeks ago. And it seems like you've kind of walked off that a little bit. I think that's kind of how the public has felt too, because they're worried about the

no dribbling and not being able to playmake at all is just weird for a guy that you're going to take one. And again, I'll go back to it and say, I just think if you pass on Chet and he hits, it's going to suck. It's going to be such a bummer to watch that guy play for a decade plus. I'm so worried about his body. It's just so atypical from anything we've ever seen succeed in the NBA and I can't get past it. But at the same time, watching four straight rounds of the playoffs and just thinking of him

as like this gigantic version of Al Horford as a worst case scenario for his career, if he can just stay healthy, where he's just 17 and 13 with some threes and some blocks and doesn't have to have the ball all the time and is just very additive. So the Horford thing,

I just keep coming back to with him. If that's the worst case for him, that's a really nice player to have the ball all the time, and is just very additive. So the Horford thing, I just keep coming back to with him. If that's the worst case for him, that's a really nice player to have. The injury thing, though, is weird because it's not like he's been not durable. Yeah. I think he's one of those guys. His body's weird.

He's a tall, skinny guy. He kind of has the hunchback. Yeah. But I don't know if he'll ever be... He seems to me like a stat-stuffer guy. I don't know if we ever average 25 a you know, like he seems to me like a, like a stat stuffer guy. I don't know if we're average 25 a game, but he's not going to be that kind of star. He'll be like this,

just Jack of all trades. Who's just a ridiculous help defender can step out, hit corner threes, um, can, can play in space or with a ball in his hand. But I don't know if he's ever like the go-to guy at the end of the game.

It was like, all right, everybody like get out of the way. Like this is my thing. Right. Um, which is maybe, maybe what can scare people away from taking one,

but I'm just, I'm just intrigued by all the things that he can be. And that's why I, I would still take him on. Seems like he'd be fun to play with too. The Jabari, I did my stamp of approval and then, um,

the, the two point stuff worries me with him. Where it's like, are you drafting basically Rashard Lewis 2.0 with the first pick in the draft? Is that a good idea? So now I'm wavering. It's pretty pathetic. Here's what I want you to do, Bill, and I'll send you the Synergy clip if you want it. And it's unfair because I could give you the Jabari Florida game and you go,

okay, I'm coming back in. Chet running all over Pepperdine, maybe not as impressive. We don't have as many Gonzaga, Chet things. Although I'm telling you, when I see Chet hit a three and he puts a little hand pistol in his holster on the side going back down the court, I just want people to understand that that's part of his game.

He said he was going to be the best player in the draft. Did you see that a couple weeks ago? I'm sorry, he said he was going to be the best player in the draft. Did you see that a couple weeks ago? I'm sorry. He said he was going to be the best player in the league. Best player in the league. In two weeks. Yeah. He's feisty.

I like it. He's like kind of... And the feistiness is dated back to when he was in 10th grade. When he was really high on these boards and he was in these games and he was a big target and he was always going right at these dudes, which I think is a good quality because everyone's going to go at him in seventh grade apparently shove guys all the time just in the hallways just slapping people's books

what i was going to say go back and watch the first half of paulo against gonzaga okay go back and watch it it'll take on the clips it'll take 15 minutes and then i want you to talk about it again which again is unfair to the other guys because i actually like the other guys like there's not this isn't me going hey like now i'm gonna dump on all these other dudes i the jabari no dribble thing does scare me a little bit you know i like guys that can dribble it's weird can we all agree on this it's the most fun just for having Cerruti in our life if Orlando takes Chet. It's the highest

ceiling, lowest basement. Everything's possible. I'll just have more conversations with Cerruti about Chet than the other two guys. It's just a lock. I will be checking in constantly. He'll have some game where he's one for eight with two rebounds in 28 minutes and

there it'll be a whole text chain i can't wait you texted me you texted me and kevin clark like what was that february or january because you were like randomly watching a magic game you're like hey this team's actually like kind of fun and i was like i know they're they're fun to watch they've got some fun guys imagine adding chet to that roster that's be a, I don't know, dare I say it, top 10 league pass team? I don't know. If you have Chet and Franz and Suggs, you have three really high IQ basketball guys.

Wendell? I'd put him in there. Yeah, Wendell. You guys, 14 million Wendell? Fultz was good for that. You know what I love about this? There's a couple things here. One is, my favorite development of my entire time at the Ringer is the buy-in from Bill understanding the Cerruti factor. Like getting why I don't stick up for many people.

He really doesn't. Rizzo likes about five people total. And so I just remember like he was available. And I was like, Bill, you know know you should just at least talk to him he's like ah you know which of course you've only been pitched to thousands of people your entire life so now you carry more weight because again you like five people so it's like well for so like some i have to investigate this i think a year goes by bill calls because so what's the deal with sarut and And I go, you know, I go, can you just fucking hire him? Just hire him.

And I'm telling you, after a little while, you'll go, oh, all right, I get it. I go, he's actually a difficult scattering reporter. If I had to type it up, it'd be hard. It would be hard to do. I'd be like, you just have to be around him. You have to work with him.

And now you guys are going to be texting about Chet and the magic. And what I love about this Chet thing, the analogy is perfect. He is the equivalent of a top 10 quarterback taken because every quarterback that's taken to the top 10, their fan base defends them despite sometimes zero evidence that it was the right pick because the fan base doesn't want to believe it's a selfish motivation. They don't want to believe that, wait, maybe our guy sucks.

And half of them do in the first round. And there's probably five fan bases right now in the NFL that are blind with support because they just can't handle the alternative that their team got it wrong. And Chet will be like an NFL quarterback if it starts off poorly. Although, you know, it should be easier for a basketball player as a rookie, as opposed to a quarterback who has everything on him and everything's his fault when it doesn't work out. Trying to think what quarterback. It's because it would have to be somebody who's got some sort of physical oddity to them, right? So maybe it's like Kyler Murray. It's like, he's too short to play quarterback, but the talent's there. And you just like all of a sudden,

because Kyler, I think is the biggest high ceiling, low basement, high pick that we've had. The Tua stans are a little aggressive. Like if you're a Tua guy, like you- That's rough because Tua's just- I know you don't like him. We just haven't seen it.

I'm not against it, but I just, you know, it just felt like all gimmicky to me. All right, we got to take a break and we got to talk about the finals. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey.

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this long to talk about the finals, but I mean the draft's not far away. If there's a flaw and an awesome thing about the NBA in June at the same time, it's how close the draft is to the finals. Especially if it's a seven-game finals, where the draft is right after that. So I do think it's important to talk about it.

It's a pretty big draft. Anyway, lingering finals questions. I'm going to throw some finals questions at you. Number one, we've never talked about this. Where do you stand on a losing player winning finals MVP? I feel like this is one of those things you just, there's certain sports things where it's like, I have to have an opinion on this. I can't, I can't zigzag around it. I have to just plant my flag and this is my opinion and here it is. So do you believe a losing player can win finals MVP? I'm open to it. Yeah, I'm pretty against it, but I'm not one of those people who's philosophically completely opposed to it. It's kind of like in baseball when A-Rod was having some of those seasons and then you go, you know, we could have finished in the last place without you. And so how can you be the MVP? And then I would ask, what if he had a billion home runs in one season and they came in last place?

Would you still say, hey, a billion would be a lot. Let's say a hundred. Let's say a hundred home runs. Then you would have to start to go like, all right, so I'm open to it,

but I'd be really, really strict about it. And that's why the Butler vote in the Eastern Conference Finals, as special as Butler was, you can't be as bad as he was in three of those games to get a vote on the losing side.

That was ludicrous. Yeah. I'm with you. I am against it. Totally. Just never, ever. The door is slightly ajar for your scenario. About as close as we got was that 2015

finals with LeBron when he averaged 36-13-9. I'd rather he had gotten it than Iguodala. Iguodala was 16, 6, and 4. And then Curry was 26, 5, and 6. I don't think people understood what Curry's gravity was. They didn't get it.

Curry should have won at 15. The weird part about Iguodala was everybody was so excited about how incredible he was doing against LeBron. He was really good, but LeBron still had huge stats in that series. It wasn't like he was the LeBron stopper. Curry should have won. It didn't sit right with me at the time.

Did you vote for that? No, I didn't. That was actually a month after I left ESPN, so I don't even know if I'm on the record with what I thought should have happened. The thing is, LeBron had big stats in that series, but he still only shot 40% and they lost in six. And I think it would have been ridiculous if he won.

We're going backwards. The first time they ever handed out finals MVP was 69 and Jerry West one on the losing Lakers. He averaged 38, five and seven and did everything. And everybody, I mean, he was so good that series that I think have a check went to just see him in the opposing locker room. And everybody, I mean, he was so good that series

that I think Havlicek went to just see him in the opposing locker room because he was just, could not believe how great West was. But the irony is Havlicek should have won finals MVP that year and they just got it wrong. Havlicek, they went in seven. He's 28, 11, 28 a game, 11 rebounds a game,

four assists. He played 48 minutes a game in the series. He never came out. He just played every single minute. He was guarding West. He was basically the point guard on the Celtics. He was indispensable. And they won the series.

And it was stupid that he didn't win. So when people go back and they point to the West thing, and West was 38, five rebounds, seven assists. He was unbelievable, but they lost. And I think Kavacek should have won. So everybody goes back to that with the Curry thing. What I don't get is when people start talking after four games where they say,

well, if the Warriors lose, Curry's still the MVP. It's like, how do we know? There's three games left. Like if the Celtics end up winning this series, it's going to be because either Tatum or Brown went to another level in two of those three games. And if that happens, they're going to win. But as good as Curry's been, I just can't get on board with a losing player winning MVP. Same reason I can't trout winning MVP when the Angels go 73 and 89. I just never understood that. How valuable can be if your team can't

even get to 500? Oh, wait. So you actually believe in the baseball one. See, I think the baseball one, it's easier just to look at the numbers and go, hey, nobody's actually better than this guy. And that's when you should... I just think they should change the... Valuable shouldn't be in the word. They should say most outstanding player. If it's valuable, there's some insinuation that the team succeeded. Right? Valuable means if not for you, this would have happened. It's like, well, if not for you, what are we, 65 and 97? That's the part I don't get. I just think the award is named wrong in baseball

because baseball is an individual sport. Just call it most outstanding. And that's it. Call it the MOP. But in basketball, these guys are valuable. Curry has been by far, by far,

the best player in the series. And if none of the Celtics step up, you know, I'm sure there's a chance Curry could win, even if the Warriors lost the series. It's in play. Him winning it, if they lose,

after all the shit that he took for people. Because, again, one of the classic Curry things, if you were still anti-Curry, which is just basically a gimmick at this point. Yeah. Anybody with a platform that's just deciding, oh, I don't want to pretend that this guy isn't this good. Okay, cool. You'd go, oh, unanimous. Unanimous MVP. And you're like, okay, but that's because

one guy screwed up the Shaq vote with an Iverson thing, so then somehow Curry is wrong for having everybody figure it out the year he was unanimous. Don't forget, MJ in 96, was he unanimous, or didn't somebody screw that one up too? No, he got screwed up. I think there's a...

I went back and looked at all this stuff, but there's the Iverson one in the Shaq year, but no, I mean, Curry's the first, first unanimous guy. So there, um, what the other one was always, well, he hasn't won finals MVP. So how you can do it again, we just covered this 15. He should have won it. Uh, people get caught up in the Iguodala story. Writers love storylines. They love, they love this stuff, you know, used to write.

And so when, when everybody kind of gets caught up in the moment, they go ahead and do this. But the best thing you just said, the smartest thing, which I completely agree, we're four games in. You know what's going to happen? It's probably going seven. And to say right now, because Steph has been so much better than everybody else, and I'm the biggest Steph fan,

I wouldn't just sit here and go, oh, no, he's got this locked up. Tatum's probably going to have a game here. Steph's probably going to have a game if it goes three more games where he doesn't close great because everybody's selling out to defend him. I can't believe how he carried that team through three quarters in game four. I'm looking at that at 79-78 going, how the hell are they up? This guy's doing all of it on his own. And I think that's a lot to ask of a point guard in today's game, which is, again, he's a different kind of point guard, but he's still initiating every single thing they do.

That's just a lot to ask to do for seven straight games. So he's probably due for a stinker in there at some point. So to assume it after four, I'm against that argument. Let's talk about the four games he played, though, because I really thought what he's doing, and I know everybody's been talking about it for two days, but first of all, these are his field goal makes and attempts in the four games. 12 for 25, 9 for 21, 12 for 22, 14 for 26.

And then from three, 7 for 14, 5 for 12, 6 for 11, 7 for 26. And then from three, seven for 14, five for 12, six for 11, seven for 14. Now he's doing this. They have no real second score, right? Clay is second in the scoring. He's 36% in the series.

Wiggins is 16 and a half, but it's really all put back and the athlete plays for the most part. And then pool's 12 and a half a game. They're throwing white and smart at him. They also have Tatum and Brown. They have the ability to pop Horford and Grant and Rob Williams out on him. Somebody

studied all the shots he made on Friday. All of them were contested. It wasn't like the Celtics fucked up on any of the plays. If you look at his shot chart, three of them were from 30 feet. I didn't talk to my dad for two days because we were both so bummed out after game four. I was like, I didn't want to talk to him. I didn't even want to find out, get the report. Did you go to three and four?

I didn't go to four. I went to three, but my dad went to four, both of them. He said what Curry did in that game was the greatest shooting thing he's ever seen in person. He's been going to Celtic games for 49 years. He said he's just never seen anything like that in his life. Because it wasn't just the shots. It wasn't just the degree of difficulty, but it was how fired up the crowd was and Curry just slowly chipping away at the confidence of the crowd

to the point that he just flipped the game. That was a drunk Boston crowd. The team was hyped. The team was in control for most of the game. That was a drunk Boston crowd. The team was hyped. The team was in control for most of the game. It was seven and a half minutes left. They're up five. They're up 94-90 with like six minutes left. And he was just that great.

I mean, if he pulls this off with this team, this would be one of the great things I think a great player has done to actually win the title with the team that he has. Now, he is a great coach. I think what Klay was doing, especially in the fourth quarter defensively, we talked about Klay a week ago. I'm shocked at how good Klay was defensively

against Jalen on some of those possessions. They really know how to play with him. So it's not like it's him and a bunch of scrubs. This isn't like Della Vadova out there and shit like that in 2015. But to have everything hinging on the fact that this guy just has to make crazy shots game after game and all he has to do is do that four out of seven times and they win and he's capable of that. This is the cherry on the sundae for the Steph career. And you and I

are Steph guys. It's bittersweet to say the least for me because to have him have this moment against my favorite team fucking sucks. Game four was just something else. I hated giving away my game four tickets after that. I always want to help out family members, and I had serious resentment of not being in the building because I left. Once I was like, okay, well, I got to get them in. I get to go to a ton of cool stuff. And so I want to get my dad and my brother in the building. And by the way, by Boston standards, that's a drunk crowd. Those nine something tip offs. That's like- On a Friday? Yeah. That started at about 2.30. People are going.

The North end is cranking all day. The weather Weather was amazing. You know, it was hotter in Boston and the North end than it is out where I live in Manhattan Beach now. And so when we rolled in, me and my buddy went into game three, I was like, whoa, you know, and we had some dudes around us red from golfing all day. Yeah. A little lightheaded. Yeah. Let's, let's top it off with a little NBA Finals action. And I still thought Steph had moments in game three where I was like, when he hit that three to make it 83-82, I'm like, man. And what was so impressive, I thought, at Boston was that they answered every single punch. There must have

been seven or eight moments in that game. You're like, oh, here we go. Here comes Golden State. Here comes Golden State. They get it to eight. They get it to seven. And then Boston would counter every time. And it was really impressive. But the Clay numbers are overall terrible. We've touched on Wiggins. What I loved about Clay, too, is he had the play on Jalen, and then he had on Tatum's awesome cut off of Wiggins. He got off of Wiggins, and Clay came over

and kind of helped and changed his angle at the rim. It was a really just last-minute, like I got to go bail somebody else out, help that kind of thing. Just finishing on Curry, what's the record for threes in a finals? Made threes. What do you think it is? 37. Steph Curry, 2015, 32 threes is the record.

Number two, Danny Green, 2013, 27. And he sucked in game seven, remember? He was like unbelievable and then finally kind of ran out of it. 2000, must have been another Curry season, 25. And then he has 25 right now. And if this goes seven, I mean, he might hit like 40 plus threes in this series. It's fucking crazy.

If you look at most points in the finals, he's at 137 right now after four. And the most ever was Elgin in 62, 284. Jerry West, 265, 69. MJ had 246 in six games in 93. And it's basically seven guys have had more than 225 points in a series. So he's got that going. The thing I wanted to add, just to put a bow on the Steph thing.

I was thinking, is there such thing as finals unicorn guys? Because we have unicorns, right? And it's like Giannis is a unicorn, or Porzingis, when we had that whole unicorn run. It's really rare to be this unique in the finals. You know, like Shaq, when Shaq had that three-year run from 00 to 02,

it was just like, just never seen anything like that. He averaged 38 points a game in 2000. It's completely unstoppable. And you're watching, it's just like watching a 300-pound running back just demolishing defenses. Jordan in 93 against the Suns, when he's like 40-plus a game, it's just completely unstoppable.

They couldn't do anything. To me, Steph is like a finals unicorn. I'm going to give you a couple other names. You tell me if you think they were finals unicorns or not. Giannis last year. Yeah, I mean, the whole time you were talking, I go, let's not forget what this guy did down 2-0 once it was kind of like... Yeah, so I had Giannis.

Yeah, Giannis absolutely has to be in the conversation for that. 2016 LeBron, I think, is in there. His last five games of that Warriors series, 33-12-9. Just, I mean.

What he and Kyrie did together in the last three is still, you know, all-time stuff, so. 87 Bird, I mean,

86 Bird and 87 Magic, I think, are both on there. There's just never been performances like that. And then I guess the two on the fringe for me would be O3 Duncan,

who almost had a quadruple double in that net series. But that was like just the best version of the footwork, big man, fundamental person that I've ever seen in the finals. And then Hakeem in 95 when he just demolished Orlando. I think those would be my eight. Steph, Giannis, LeBron, Shaq, Jordan, Magic Bird, Duncan, Hakeem.

Where it's not just that they're great, they're like uniquely, I haven't seen this before on this stage, kind of great. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. I mean, Wade, Dallas, the first time. Right, but was that an MJ impression or was that a unicorn thing? No, because I remember your- Because to I remember that was like in that Michael Jordan kind of phylum. You know what I mean?

So what is Jordan then? Is it because Jordan was like it was so many times that it was normal for him? Is that what you're saying? I think what he did in 93 I've that's just never going to happen again. Just to watch somebody

in the finals being like, I'm just scoring between 40 and 50 again tonight, then you're not going to be able to stop me. I don't care who you're throwing at me. I'll be getting to 40 again. Wade couldn't do that every game. Kobe couldn't do that every game. They could have games like that, but Jordan, the ease and the efficiency was pretty ludicrous. What were the Kobe 2009 numbers? He never really got there. He was in the high 20s. He was like 28, 29 range.

He never had the consistency like that. I mean, for him, it probably would have been 0-2, but Shaq was so great. I don't think he got the ball enough. Yeah, I'm looking at it now. I mean, he was between... Yeah. He was high 20s. Yeah, I'm looking at it now. I mean, he was between... Yeah.

He was high 20s. Yeah, the shooting was... The shooting, the numbers for Kobe, when you really look at the field goal percentage and the true shooting and the stuff like that, it's not awesome for him in the playoffs for the resume. A lot of the Jordan stuff is really translated, but the threes, obviously, they didn't have back then.

One other thing I love, though, about the Steph fourth quarter, because game one, it wasn't a great game. Game two, they didn't need it. I mean, that first quarter, or excuse me, that fourth quarter in game one now seems like a year ago. Yeah. When Celtics come out, it's seven straight threes to start it, and you're like, wait, you know,

Golden State's going to lose this basketball game, which was, I don't know that I ever felt like, wait, you know, Golden State's going to lose this basketball game, which was, I don't know that I ever felt like, oh, no, wait, Boston's going to lose this game because the way Curry had played, even though I was still shocked that they were up 79-78. I'm like, I can't believe they're up. But I also understood why they're up because I was watching it the entire time.

And then a Golden State team that couldn't score a point with the last three plus minutes of game three for Boston was arguably worse here and I know we'll get to that in some of the Tatum stuff but I loved the clay three because it was the Steph gravity stuff again two ran out to Steph and ignored Clay Thompson at the top of the three point line Rob Williams did run out to contest got there late and then the green the loony pass layup was all because it was that old school Steph stuff that they would do. Like, hey, if they're going to trap you, be ready.

Draymond free throw line outlet. He turns, makes one play. That was a mistake. Yeah, I don't think. At that point, you've defended Steph a certain way. And all the shots he made were impossible. And you just got to keep it going. Like to give up a two-on-one to Draymond, that's the one way to get him going too.

I didn't like that. I didn't love the way the Celtics, I didn't love the coaching game for him. I think he has done an incredible job the whole playoffs, but I just felt like it didn't feel like. No, I just am curious. Like, what do you think? I didn't think their right five were out there

in the last seven minutes. I thought it was too hard for them to score and Tatum, who we'll get to in a second. Just having so much trouble creating that I actually would have I would I know this is crazy and I know he sucked

in the first half, but I would have played Pritchard. I think they needed a shooter. They needed somebody that the Warriors just were not scared of White. Because I think White's confidence, which has ebbed and flowed this whole playoffs. It was very rare that he was going to keep up what he was doing, too. He lost it in game three.

I may have benched him for the last quarter and a half. And I think now he looks like fragile Derek White again. So they either needed to go big with some size, or I think they needed Pritchard. As weird as that sounded. He didn't even play that much in that game. Or Grant, just somebody that can hit a three. Grant's just out there fouling all over the place. Grant's been a disaster for a month. Really, since Game 7 Milwaukee.

Do you feel like he's... Was that a month ago? Yeah, it was a month ago. It was bad. All right, we should talk about Tatum. So let's take a break and we'll do that. Score big on FanDuel Sportsbook during the NBA Finals.

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1800gamber.net. When you ride transit, please be safe. Yeah. Be safe. Because what you do, others will do too. Others will do it too. So don't take shortcuts across tracks. Don't do that. In fact, just don't walk on tracks at all. Not at all. Trains move quietly, so you won't hear them coming. You Don't do that. In fact, just don't walk on tracks at all.

Not at all. Trains move quietly so you won't hear them coming. You won't hear them coming. See? Safe riding sets an example. Yeah, an example for me. Because safety is learned. It's learned. Okay, give it up.

Give what up? Really? Really, really. This message is brought to you by Metrolinks. Before we talk about Tatum, I just wanted to give you the finals MVPs that bother me the most. I mean, at least. Just extra content

for you. Just say, I know you love this stuff. How long did you do on this? How long did you go on this? It was like 10 minutes. The JoJo in 1976 over Cowens is ridiculous. It was just a complete overreaction to game five. Cowens was like every game, like 21 and 18.

I didn't like that one. Didn't that feel political? No, it was because JoJo was amazing in game five. I see what you did there. Wes Unseld won in 78. Wes Unseld, he was 9, 12, and 4. And he was kind of getting torched by Seattle's bigs. And it just seemed like they liked Wes Unseld and they didn't want to give it to Bobby Dandridge for whatever reason. And I don't get that one at all.

Magic over Kareem in 1980 was just a bad pick. Kareem should have won. Magic played one great game. Kareem was like, he was 33 33-14-3 In the five games he played And he would have played A game seven And I just would have Given it to him Wait so you would have Taken away the Magic game seven

All time playing center Game six It was game six They were up 3-2 I just think Kareem Was the best part of the series I don't I don't like the

Maxwell over Bird I think Bird That became like Bird's 2015 Curry Where Bird was 15-15-7 In that series Seven assists a game Maxwell over Bird. I think Bird, that became like Bird's 2015 curry. Bird was 15, 15, and 7 in that series. Seven assists a game. His shot was off,

but Maxwell was 18 and 10. It wasn't like he was averaging 27 a game. I just thought that was weird. Bird, especially in game six, I didn't like that. 2004, Ben Wallace should have been the MVP of that series. Billups won,

and it started the Mr. Big Shot thing that became, I think, one of the most overrated things of the 2000s, this whole concept of Chauncey Billups. Oh, my God. Amazing. Ben Wallace guarded Shaq. I don't know when I looked at it, but it was a couple years after the Mr. Big Shot thing

had taken over. So basically, any time you hit a... Because unfortunately, too many a couple years after the Mr. Big Shot thing had taken over. So basically, any time you hit a... Because unfortunately, too many... They're going, Mr. Big Shot, there he is! And he missed most of them. Here's what I don't like about how we think about clutch players, is that there are monumental shots with like 137 left. And I understand that it falls under the minute window or whatever,

but guys are hitting huge shots that may actually decide the game. Maybe it's two 10 left or something like that. I know the different clutch, you know, sorters and how it works out, but those shots never get any credit. They just never seem to get enough credit. And then we start to do this less under the shot clock score tied. And I remember because somebody put all the time in, this didn't happen all the time. Kids, I mean, we're, we're spoiled now, by the way, the person who put the time in. This didn't happen all the time, kids. I mean, we're spoiled now. By the way, the person who put the time in was me. I did a whole thing about how Chauncey Billups was Mr. Big Shot,

and I listed all the shots that he missed. Right. Chauncey actually had like a way lower field goal percentage in these qualifiers. And as much as I love Chauncey as a player, and he deserves all the credit. I love that Detroit run. Me too. The funny thing was, I think, did you come up with the same?

I don't know when I read it and when you wrote yours, but it was basically kind of landed on that. Melo had had the best run of his era of hitting big shots, which is hysterical because everybody thought he was a loser. Right. Melo was a really good clutch guy, and Billups, I mean, Billups, if they come through in Game 6 or Game 7

in 2005, if he has one more Mr. Big Shot, then now we're talking. They've won two straight, but he just wasn't good in those games. I thought it was a little overrated. 2010, Kobe versus Powell, to me, is still a real argument. I thought Powell was the most important player in that series.

And if we're going to overreact to Game 7s, which we've done in finals MVPs, right? Worthy wins over Magic in 1988 because of Game 7. The 2010, Powell is the best player in that game. He kind of demolishes

the Celtics' front line. And Kobe wasn't that good in the series and wasn't that good in game seven and I think I just think Powell you can make a real case that he should have won but that was the whole thing

where it's like no Kobe's got to win he's the best part of the team but if we're doing that then you got to go backwards Bird should win in 81 Tim Duncan should just win in 07 regardless of how good Tim Duncan was

so I don't know we're all over the map Tony Parker. We're all over the map with this. Anyway, that's my finals MVP rant. Jason Tatum. A little too young or more hurt than we are being told?

Pick one. It's almost a compliment. You know you've reached like a higher tier of nba superstar when you get to have the is he hurt conversation in the nba finals and trust me for all the people that don't like steph that was the one that always came up i always felt like yes steph because he's little he actually might be hurt a lot uh i went back and watched all the shots from game four 23 attempts there's one that counts as an attempt, even though he's kind of stripped on the way up by Clay.

So that's in there. That was horrible. I thought 15 of the shots were great looks. Great looks. It wasn't just the Tatum part that frustrates people at times, dancing around, settling for some step backs that are just tough shots to make. I don't care who you are.

I thought he took a ton of really great shots, and I thought he made some great plays and great reads in the fourth quarter, even though he didn't make any shots. You know, he got smart, a couple of decent looks. The offensive tip out to the smart three that he made was because of Tatum. He had a throw to the corner that was the right play. The only thing that concerns me a little bit is that whatever his offseason is, he should probably look to drive to contact a little bit more because he's going to get those calls now because of who he is. And I think he allows someone to get him off of his driving lane a little easier than you would want. You know, he needs... The Klay play is a perfect example. He's cutting toward the basket.

He's bigger than Klay Thompson. And instead of just going right into him and getting the foul, he tries to like go sideways and quick shoot it. And it was fucking terrible. And three years from now, I think he handles that completely differently.

Here's why if you look at his first 13 games and then the last nine, what's the difference? He gets hurt in game three of the Miami series, right? He gets that stinger. And he was bad in that game anyway. He was having a bad game. Remember the beginning of game three,

he's up on the Jumbotron and he's like early in that game. You're going, oh no. Right. So his first 13 in the playoffs, he's 28, 6 and 6, 45% field goal. His last nine, 23, 8 and 7, 39% field goal. Okay. First 13, he has six games of 10 plus field goals made, which I think is a really important stat. If you just make intentions, like remove the threes. If you just, you have 10 possessions where somebody made a field goal, not to mention like eight free throws,

whatever, but just like, that's why the Steph field goals are so important. Those are all possessions that he scored. His last nine, he doesn't have a single game

of 10 plus field goals made. He goes three, eight, seven, nine, nine, three, eight,

nine, eight. And what's crazy is in the finals, his three-point percentage is better than his field goal percentage. When the fuck has that ever happened? Shooting 45% from three,

and he's shooting 38% for field goals. So his two-point percentage stuff is in the 20s. And I can't, to me, that can't just be the Warriors are playing good defense on him. I think he's a little bit hurt. I think he's a little tired. And I think he's fallen into this habit of either it's threes or I'm driving to the basket. And if you look at his shot chart, the Milwaukee, the game six, the 46-point game,

that shot chart looks very similar to the shot chart he had in game four against the Warriors. It's a lot of threes, a couple long twos, and a lot of shots around the rim. And what he's not doing, which is the frustrating thing to me, and if they came to me and they said, how would you help Tatum? Just settle for that 15-footer sometimes. He has such a nice 15-foot pull-up. There's times over and over again, if you watch that fourth quarter again, he's driving to the side. Just pull up. You can shoot over everyone. You're 6'9". And I think he's more young than hurt. I think three years from now, that's the shot he's going to add. And eventually when he gets into his late 20s, he'll add the post-up game that he doesn't really have yet. But those would be the two things,

that pull up, which he doesn't have yet, or he has, he just doesn't use, and then the post-up. So anyway, that's my tatum analysis will they come to you right here right here guys he's 14 of 51 inside the arc in the finals 27.5 it's fucking horrible yeah and and how many missed layups at least what 15 like layups we're talking layups some Some of the layups, you know, the team is selling out. Like the help will go to him.

And there's a couple, you know, early in game four. I mean, they were on fire. The Celtics, they hit nine to 18 from three to get that game starting. And then you're thinking like,

oh, they need to be up more because no one else is doing anything. Yeah. Except for Steph. And even Steph, I think was a two or eight, maybe from three in that game. And then,

you know, obviously turned it on a little bit later, but some of the layups are just really challenging attempts. So it can be a layup. This has been a thing with his career, though, is the finishing, I think, has been pretty spotty. This has been the most frustrating thing about rooting for him. That's why I loved his layup against Wiggins in game three.

He shook him with the dribble a little bit and then finished to the right side. But I would say, hey, go get the free throws. You're that kind of player now. You're going to get this call. Right. Go in, just like you said. I don't need to repeat it again.

But the clay one, he should have just taken the foul and get the free throws there. So I know that at times, whenever you're frustrated with Tatum at the end of games, you'll think, oh, is he settled? Because he was doing a lot of that stuff in the beginning of the year. Like, what is this fascination? Honestly, I think of the 23 shots, there was another five that were okay.

Like, I really thought there was two or three just straight up. That's an awful shot. What are you doing? And when you're taking 20 plus, there's going to be a couple of those because it's on you, especially at the end of the first half. Like, that's a tough shot in the corner, some runner, but clock's about to go out so that's you're a star you're the best player you had the ball in your hands at that point so it isn't really shot selection i would just go hey see if you can get some more free throws and make your life a little bit easier

instead of trying to change the angle and avoid the contact well you're at game three as was i i went through the first three games his shoulder shoulder, something's definitely fucked up. Yeah, totally. And if it came out after the series that he had a separated shoulder and they popped it back in, or he has a slight something, or some injury that they're not being kind of forthcoming about, I wouldn't be surprised. He might have a stinger, but if he has a stinger,

this is the longest fucking stinger that's ever happened. The stinger happened in game three of the Miami series. This was three weeks ago. So what is it about it that he's constantly shaking his arm out like he has, like somebody hit him in his funny bone? And I think it ties into some of the ways he's finishing around the rim. It seems like a guy who doesn't want to take the hard contact because he's hurt is my fear. Yeah, when I sit here and agree with you, but I also think a bunch of guys are hurt all the time. But it's clear, to me, he's not some guy that's always theatrical about every little injury. It's just not really who he's been. So when he starts reaching for that shoulder and you see him grimacing, I'm like, okay, this feels real and everything.

But I don't know. As you said, everyone started this time. People thought Steph after game three might not play. Yeah. So, here's the too young angle. He's 24. We know this. It's mentioned a lot.

But if you go back and you look at the great perimeter guys, what season were they 24 in? It's pretty illuminating. Curry was 24 in 2012. He hadn't done jack shit yet for the Warriors, right? That was when they were deciding when the Boga trade, do we trade Monte or do we trade Steph Curry?

He'd done nothing in the NBA, really a substance other than he won Rookie of the Year. We still don't know if it was the right call. Yeah. Ellis is pretty good. LeBron, 2009, that was his first MVP. Had never won a finals game to that point. Wade

in 2006, probably the best 24-year-old performance. Kawhi, 2016, not really Kawhi yet. Dirk, 2005, year before his MVP year KD 2013 he was hurt

his MVP was next year Harden 2014 hadn't really gone up a level like he did that was like 3-4 years later Jordan 1987

nothing had happened yet for him Kobe 2003 probably the probably the most advanced of all these 24-year-olds. He was pretty amazing in that 0-2-0-3 stretch. Nash 1999 hadn't done anything yet.

Pierce 2002, that was the run against the Nets, but think how young he seemed that year. It was amazing that he was doing anything. It was going to take six years again for them to make a dent in anything. Right. And then Bird in 1981 when he you know, he wasn't Bird the way, the legend

for three more years. Yeah, but he was also old. He was old. He came in illegal. Yeah. So when you think like the 24, like Tatum, 22 playoff games,

he outplayed Durant. He went toe-to-toe against Giannis. He won a do-or-die game in Milwaukee in game six with one of the best Celtic playoff games.

He went against that Miami football team for seven games, got the shit kicked out of him. And now he's going against a really smart, well-coached Golden State team. This is... I guess my point is I shouldn't be on the phone with my

dad complaining about Jason Tatum for 15 minutes. He's 24 years old. It's kind of amazing that he's here. I've recalibrated my thoughts on it. Well, we both know what's going to happen. If they win, then the expectation is like this is this ascension, just the way that we're going to talk about it, right? You know, we're not going to go many players deep until, you know, you get to Tatum. And I don't know if that means top five and all this stuff that I've kind of joked about with Tatum because it's new and it's this first

long run that we've had to, well, the first long run that feels weird or feels, I should say this differently. This Tatum run is the first one that feels real because 18 felt fluky, even though it was game seven of the conference finals, right? Okay. So we all agree on that. 20 is the bubble. It still felt, he still felt young. It's kind of weird though. Like whatever happens, he's still going to be the same player, but he's going to be talked about in two completely opposite ways. He will come into next year as this guy can carry your team to a championship. He can be the one of a championship team, which is not really a list that is double digits, in my opinion.

All right? If they lose, it's going to be, is this guy really a one? And he's probably going to be the same exact player. I think he's definitely a one. I think you can win the title with him. And there's a world where Steph just doesn't do what it is in game four. He's one of the 15 best players ever. He played the greatest game.

I think that he ever played in his life. And if it wasn't the greatest, it's one of the three greatest. And that's why the series is 2-2. Do you have a read on the series? I can't believe I'm saying this. I'm actually weirdly confident about the Celts tomorrow night. I just think they're a zigzag team.

Their record after a loss in the playoffs this year is 7-0. Not nothing. No. No, it's a great sign. I said on Friday's have, they just, I said on Friday's pod, it's,

they're the team that they just need some sort of pressure to bring the best out of them. And as soon as that pressure's not there, they fall into the same

bad habits again. It's the weird, it's honestly the weirdest basketball team I've ever watched. Like that every year. Do you see Tatum's quote after? What? He goes, I promise you, we don't do this shit on purpose.

I thought they were slow, man. I thought that off a miss is, you know. It's a key point. You got to get it going. You got to get this going. Get into your stuff earlier. Have a plan. Attack a little bit earlier.

You go back and we'll go to the fourth quarter. The shots aren't terrible. It isn't the old Celtics stuff when they were a really frustrating team and you felt like, what are you guys doing? You're just taking turns here. I thought they actually did some okay stuff, but it was just slow. Those guys don't feel like the Warriors beat them, which may be entirely ridiculous to say. I mean, look, again, the final

7-32, Boston was 2-12, six points, which is almost as bad as... Three points the final 5-18. Three points in an NBA Finals game in the last five minutes, 18 seconds. You knew Horford was going to have dead legs

coming off one day rest. If I'm the Celtics, I'm the most worried about White and Grant Williams and Pritchard and these role guys who have been really important for them throughout the run who feel like the arrow's pointing down across the board. White feels like he's lost his confidence again. Rob apparently gestured to come out with four minutes left and his knee is just game to game. You don't know what's going to happen. Seeing that live, by the way, sorry to interrupt, but watching Rob Williams live, you think the stretcher's coming for

him every five minutes. Right. He's just... Do you think we're going to find out more about the knee after the finals? What was he gutting through? He was so good in game three. And then he's flying around like Spider-Man. Yeah, I get it that's the thing like i don't know how many different times i was like oh you know because just being there is such an awesome experience man here's

the thing it really was the the finals and just that atmosphere in both places both crowds have been great but um if they were going to ask me, give us one tip, the Celtics. Give us one tip, Simmons. You're really pushing for that. You're trying to get in the front office. Go faster. How fucking hard is this? They're starting their offense with 11 seconds left on the shot clock because

they're walking it up. The ball's crossing the line at 16, and by the time we're going, there's 10, and then if that first thing gets shut down or whatever, now there's five seconds left. And what I don't understand is Curry's 34, Klay's didn't play for 900 days, you know, the Warriors don't have the same size. Like, I want to wear them out. I want to move. I want to go up and down on them. And when you're walking it up on them, the Warriors are just a better half-court team? So why are you walking it up? Yeah, and even if you wanted to argue,

well, you want to slow it down because you're the better defensive team or whatever, it doesn't mean you don't have to push it off a miss and see if something's there and then bring it back out. But when there's never a threat of, you know, not just full-blown turnover transition, but off a miss and people are back, just push it.

You know, cross- cross match gets screwed up. Start it faster. I don't care who you are. Every team should be doing that. And I know guys can be tired. It's a quicker turnaround. It's the end of this thing. But they were too slow too often. I feel weirdly confident that the Celtics will show up in Game 5, but

this just might be a Curry Finals. He might have 40 again with 8 threes again. And if he does, if he does what he did in game four in, in San Francisco, I don't see them losing at home when he plays like that. Because it,

I talked about this after, after game one or game two, the, the way that he just charges that crowd up when he's on, there's nothing like it right now in sports. Nothing. I have such a history with that guy. And when he gets hot, the energy is just out of control.

How about the way he went at the Boston crowd? It was great. By the way, if we're going worse crowds, everybody was upset about it wasn't classy. I don't like the fuck you stuff i don't think we should do that at the game so i'm not i'm not gonna get all sanctimonious about it what age do you turn when you go yelling fuck you draymond isn't cool no just guess what draymond sucks works great like we already had good chance draymond sucks

or the draymond like one of those two we good. We didn't need to add the fuck you chant. Wait, what was I talking about? Oh, the classless thing. We talked about this when it happened. Toronto fans cheering when KD blew out his Achilles. Let's always mention that when we're getting mad at fans as just like the 10 out of 10 worst behavior

by an NBA fan base. That's still number one. They'll never live it down in my opinion. It was still awful. I just don't feel like the Boston fans would do that. Just before anybody says, oh, it actually wasn't that bad. I've gone back and watched it recently. Go watch it. It's fucking horrible.

When Clay is turning to the fans and look on his face being like, are you fucking serious? You guys, are's serious right now um so whatever there you go all right so your prediction what do you have i picked warriors and seven i don't have any read on this i had moments in game four with boston where they were shooting it really well and and i thought everybody was kind of getting it going jalen's had these really good starts um but i'm expecting that draymond are we going to talk any draymond are we done i'm so bored at draymond at this point why would you have did you have something you felt like was

timely yeah i do i do all right let's hear it you know i have a bunch of theories on this i'm going to spare you them right now but the the general thought is that there's some sort of compensation going on when somebody acts a certain way that maybe other people don't like. I am blown away that Draymond was that bad again in Game 4 after being that bad in Game 3 and being pretty bad in Game 1. And I'd argue

even in Game 2, I thought it was a little overrated because of how early he started. And it's like, oh, you made him feel him right away. And him getting benched in the fourth quarter, it was still under four minutes. It was kind of this 7-340 stretch. So it wasn't like a full-on, you're so bad,

we can't put you back out there. But he had a drive where he was, or he had the ball right at the rim, and he threw it out to Bialysa, who missed a three to the right side. And it makes me wonder if, if Draymond as tough as he is as a competitor, is he actually not nearly as mentally as tough as we think he is and is all the stuff compensating for him having moments where he's actually doubting himself out there? Because I still, and we had Anthony Slater on my podcast.

And we were just laughing about the stat line that Draymond had in Game 7 and that loss in 2016 against Cleveland. He was incredible. He had 30 points. He did everything. He was like the only guy they could really count on. He was an actual offensive threat for a really long time. And something got in his head.

He didn't want to take threes. Now he can't make any of them. I mean, he was a 40% three point shooter in that one playoff run. He had a couple seasons where he was right around there, Bill. He's 23% from the floor, 0% from threes,

and he's passing it to other guys. So I'm just, I'm asking about, you know, the doppelganger is, is the, when Ben Wallace kind of lost it on the bulls pistons. And it was like, it's other guys. So I'm just, I'm asking about, you know, what the doppelganger is, is the, when Ben Wallace kind of lost it on the bulls pistons. And it was like, it's been Wallace. It looks like Ben Wallace, but then you would look at the stats and it's like, that's not been Wallace anymore.

I wonder if part of his personality is trying to psych himself up because deep down he knows, like, I just don't feel comfortable with the ball the way i used to it's just the theory and and i look he's always been the same guy so it's not like all of a sudden he's now acting out more as opposed to earlier when his offensive player he acted out less yeah that's what i think you like with all the stuff that's coming with draymond and again i'm a fan of him all right, I would hate to see this warriors team without his personality on it. Cause I still think you need one of those guys that wants to fight every single minute.

But for somebody that we all seem to agree on about his mental toughness, I wonder how much mental doubt there is with him right now, because I can't believe he was that bad too. You want to have a bad, plenty of guys have bad games. We know he's not an offensive guy anymore can't believe he was that bad. Plenty of guys have bad games. We know he's not an offensive guy anymore, but this was somebody that showed and it's not like he's 38, Bill. He's, what, 32 years old?

And he's a completely different offensive player from a guy six years ago who wasn't afraid of anybody. I think what's shocking is the lack of explosiveness when you go back because I talked about this a little on Friday. I went back and I watched some of that game seven and athletically, you know, it's nobody's, there's been no athlete like LeBron that we've had in the league other than Giannis, I think in the last 15 years, but athletically Draymond felt like he was on a level like that.

Like he was just all over the place. He was a maniac and was at the rim. And he's just, I don't think he's explosive anymore. And I don't think he has the same legs on the three anymore. And he's obviously lost confidence in it. But his three, when you get older, your three should get better, not worse. That's, I think, pretty strange, right?

He cannot be as athletic. That's fine. But there's no reason why you know you just can't be a 38 percent three-point shooter he's 32 years old he's not 38 so I I it's not like he's been a different personality he's been the same time same guy the entire time and it's important I think you're right though there's some overcompensation a little bit because if he feels like he's not as effective of a player, what do you do?

You get almost louder to overcompensate for it. I can't believe he's been this bad, man. And it's been really bad. Yeah, and game two, as you said, was his only good game, but they just called that game in a legitimately insane way and let him

just basically go nuts. Yeah, I'll be win or lose for the Warriors. I just don't think there's a world where he's, I think he's under contract for 27 million next year. I just don't see a world where anybody's paying him more than, you know, eight to 10 million after that contract. Because people have talked about, oh my God, what do they do to pay all these guys? There's just no way he can make that much money anymore for what he's given them. But what's weird is the first two months of the season,

defensively, he was amazing, right? So maybe he has some injury that, what was his injury? Why did he go out? Was it a knee or was it something else? I can't remember. Or was it some lower leg thing? Yeah, it was a lower leg thing.

So maybe he's not healthy. So that would be the one thing you're holding on to maybe is that maybe he's not healthy. Because the first two months he was all over the place and we were talking about him as the defensive player of the year and that guy's not held up. All right, one more break and then we have one quick game for you. All right, thought exercise,

and then we got to go. GM jobs you would not want right now heading into the draft and the offseason. What's the least appealing GM job? For the record, Rassel and I would take any GM job. Any of the 30, if you're offering to us,

we'd probably take them. But these are the ones that would give us pause. Would you really? I don't think you would. I don't think you'd take all 30. Yeah, true. I'd probably like five. I'm giving you first pick.

We'll alternate. Your first pick. Worst GM job right now. And I guess we should say the parameters would be obviously lack of talent, salary cap situation, do you have a go-to guy, the market, what's your owner? There's a million factors that go into this, but the big one is could you succeed in that job? If it was given to you, do you feel good about your chances to actually succeed for the next four to five years?

Your number one pick is? I probably put too much weight on ownership for this. Because ultimately... Your goal is to succeed. Who's my boss going to be? Alright. This is so suspenseful.

I have no idea what you're going to do. I know what I have as the number one pick. I think I know your number one pick. I think I idea what you're going to do. I know what I have as the number one pick. I think I know your number one pick. I think I know what it would have been, but I think you've warmed up to this guy. So you don't want to make it your number one pick and that's why you want me to go first. No, I'll go first.

I'll say Sacramento would be the toughest one. Oh, interesting. I had them lower. Yeah. In my rankings. The track record isn't great. I wouldn't say that you look at the roster going, this is going to be awesome.

It's not a destination city. And as you have told us firsthand, by all accounts, with that heck of a nice guy. Heck of a nice guy. Great guy. But it seems rather rudderless. And I would say that would be the toughest one right now for me. Interesting.

So I thought about them. I have them lower on my list. I like the fourth pick. I think Fox and Sabonis, they found something with those guys the last two months that I'm interested in. I like Davion Mitchell. Barnes, either to keep or as a trade person.

I think that could be fun. And I just think, at least I could make that work, right? If you gave me that job, I'd be like, all right, I got this, I got this. Like, this is something. My first pick, I just wouldn't feel good about. It's Washington. Do I have to build

the team around Porzingis? Is Kuzma thinking he's a max guy? I somehow don't have salary cap space, even though my team sucks. I also don't have a top eight pick. I'm not really a free agent destination. I'm in a conference that has the Celtics and the Bucks and the Heat and the Nets, whatever the fuck happens with KD. The Nets are, yeah. I would just not feel great. Sorry, Joe House, but that's just not a fun job. And I don't know, you know,

you're going out for drinks with your buddies like, hey man, congrats, man. You must be so excited. So what are you going to do? And you just kind of go, hey, well, you know, mid-level exception. Yeah, I think there's. Like, hey, man, congrats, man. You must be so excited. So what are you going to do? And you just kind of go, hey, well, you know, mid-level exception. Yeah, I think there's some good, like, what do you do with this job?

You buried the headline. You're going to pay Beal $250 million who said the decision was going to come down to winning? Yeah, I forgot to mention that part. Which it, okay, then where else are you going? And, you know,

the Beal thing the entire time, I was like, I heard he just wants to stay. He wants to get that full 250 and then he'll figure it out later. What he should have said, he goes, this contract and my next trade demand will be about winning. All right. By the way. That's a little high. I thought you reached there a little bit, but you thought I reached.

I thought with Sacramento, even though everything you just said about the roster is fair, I think like if you looked at Houston and you go what if Jalen Green and the number three pick worked out here like what if I have like two things and I reset my salary deck like I could have a chance at really being

dynamic Houston wasn't even on my list yeah no I didn't have my list either okay all right can I say one thing about Beal and the Wizards they're gonna have to pay him

yep the move is to trade him I just don't know what his value is. He's coming up for a risk thing. I think as people watch the playoffs and the two-way guys, you want your superstars to be two-way guys. I think that's really hurt guys like Beal and Mitchell from a trade value standpoint. People look at those guys and they go,

if that's my best guy and he's not a two-way guy, where am I going? Am I going round one go, if that's my best guy and he's not a two-way guy, where am I going? Am I going round one and out? What's my destiny? And to pay him 50 million a year, I don't want to pay anyone 50 million a year who can't be the best guy on a title team. And I don't think he can.

Okay, I'm going to surprise you with my pick here that I even thought about taking number one overall. Okay. Phoenix. Wow. Okay, make the case. Chris Paul came in and fixed everything. This team was going to have some real, I think, problems.

And despite what people think about Chris Paul now, again, after a playoff loss we've covered, I think if you let Aiton walk for nothing, which I'm still not, you know, I don't know if that's actually going to happen, but you still had an owner that was willing to mess with a team

that was going to win over 60 games and had an amazing profile of a regular season team. Sarver, leaving out all the allegations in the investigation, let's just say we leave him out. He is one of the worst owners. And if you're this cheap, you can't just say, hey, you know what, we have a good group here and we want to build it

around Bridges Booker and Aiton Post Paul and try to figure out a way to fill in the pieces like almost every other owner would do. Then don't own a team. I cannot stand hearing about yearly losses from basketball franchises when it's the equivalent of having a home where the insurance and the property taxes are high and you feel like you're stretched a little bit month to month, but you know that your home is going to triple in 10 years. You know, so like all of that always gets left out. You shouldn't own a team if you can't hang on to the appreciation when you go ahead and sell this thing. So, I mean, the minimum is $2 billion now, I think, for a team. Right.

Because of the meteorites coming. So they're all doing fine. They're doing, like, okay, you know, sorry you're not cashing, you know, putting away tons of cash every year like some of the other franchises, which you probably still will be anyway. But to have him be my boss,

I would put him as, like, he's probably the last guy I would want to work for. It's a great pick. I'm jealous of it. And then on top of it, you just threw away that Hal Burton pick and he took Jalen Smith. He's not on the team anymore. That would drive me.

I'd be so mad taking over that job being like, so wait, we had the 10th pick and that's gone already. Two years later. I still think like as much as people will go, are you going to be nuts. Like they still have a chance to contend in the West next year, which I think is a fair statement. This is about being a GM. This is about partnering with ownership and going, can I trust this guy?

What's this track record? And the track record's terrible. And once the Chris Paul thing becomes like when he's done, done, and depending on what happens with Aiton, like there's a path where this is pretty ugly in less than 24 months, especially when the investigation comes back. All right, so you went first. You took Sacramento. I took Washington.

You just took Phoenix. I can't believe they're still on the board. I'm taking the Los Angeles Lakers. I have LeBron James in the last year of his deal, the 20th season of his career, already talking about how he wants to own a team in Vegas,

which, by the way, we have discussed many times on this podcast how that was going to be what happened and the cat's finally out of the bag. I have Davis, who is now in year 11 or 12? Year 11. Yeah, it's 2000 drafts. This is the 11th season.

I have no idea what I'm getting from him, how healthy he's going to be going forward. I have no picks. My picks are gone. I don't really have any young players unless you want to get super excited about Austin Reeves. And the ownership situation is just bizarre. Everyone likes Jeannie, whatever.

She's a very nice person, but it's a bizarre ownership situation, just bizarre. And you have a fan base with huge expectations, and I just think it's going to be a really dark next few years, and I think that's a really hard job. Because if I took the job, I would try to trade LeBron right now. That would be my move. I'm not winning the title next year. I would really try to aggressively try to turn LeBron into something back and then try to figure out

what I have with Davis. But they're not going to do that. And then LeBron's going to leave after next season. And now it's just Davis. Well, what's going to happen with that? How many times have we talked about, oh, he's under a long contract. Okay, great. He's going to want out of the Lakers. So I just wouldn't want to be involved in any of that. No thanks. The ownership thing's a little tricky

because I think if Genie weren't Genie, there'd be so much more criticism. It's just weird that Jim Buss was destroyed by everybody in the media, and then everybody says Genie's the best. I don't know what that's about. Now, you could say as simple as, hey, they ended up turning the keys over to Clutch with Palenka.

They won a title, so it's completely different. All right, that's fine, but I don't know if that's necessarily the best way to judge the two tenures. And knowing that you have this really weird season coming up here with the Westbrook stuff and if there's any solution to it whatsoever. They're playing the Westbrook thing exactly

like we predicted. They're making it seem, oh no, it's going to be great. We're going to make it work. It was all Frank Vogel's fault. Yeah. Wow, this didn't work. Cool. But the reason I don't know that I would take him is that you're still maybe the number one destination for anyone good i would be fired by then the problem is i'm getting the job and by the time there's daylight at the end of the tunnel i'm getting blamed and

i'm getting fired like frank vogel did so i'm like the caretaker for this heaving corpse for three years as they wait for stuff to shake out now Now, if they end up getting Kyrie in a week, who knows? Who do you have for your third pick? Portland. I don't think any players want to go there. Ownership influx. If I'm hired now,

I'm going to get fired by the new owners. I have a superstar that does, by all accounts, everything I've ever heard is that he likes being the guy and having everything catered to him. I don't know if he's going to feel that way with a bunch of draft picks. So the one thing that I still have that I'm excited about, that's tenuous. And I think Portland just on the whole, it's not exactly like, I don't think NBA players are like,

that's exactly where I want to live and hang out. Well, you didn't mention the Dame contract. No. What is it? Four more years? We get up to 50 million, right? Whoa. Dame. Is it three more years? 42.4, 45.6, and 48.7.

Yeah. The next three. It, and 48.7. Yeah. The next three. It's pretty rough. And still no idea, like, what was, how bad was that stomach injury? Was that like a debilitating injury? What was going on?

They had the seventh pick, which isn't nothing. Other than that, yeah, I don't know. So I had Utah as my next pick because that's a team that basically has this Mitchell Gobert thing that everyone in the league knows is a problem and they have to move on one of them. Gobert makes so much money, I don't even know really what they could get for them. I think for what his fan, what the Utah fans would think he was worth in a trade versus what I think the league thinks he's worth in a trade, I just don't think they have a lot of moves. And if anything, I wouldn't be shocked if they just came back with these two guys again

and they were like, we're going to make a greater commitment to defense, to hire a defensive coach, whatever. But I just don't think they have a lot of moves. That's a tough job. Danny, I think, is going to do it the right way. I think he's going to take huge swings. That's what he does.

That's his history. He's not going to stay with these two guys. I don't think so. Better ownership than Portland. Is it a better destination now than Portland is? I don't know. Not historically, but I think Portland's changed a bit. I don't know. Not historically, but

I think Portland's changed a bit. I've always heard that NBA players like Utah. It's always been a thing that's been out there. Once you get there, you kind of like it a little bit more. I thought about Utah too because you have this thing,

but at least with Utah, I know I could just bring everybody back and still be kind of good. Maybe something breaks my way and it hasn't really happened in the Gobert playoff thing versus regular season thing. I don't want to argue with any more than anybody. But the Gobert contract is disgusting. It's 38, it's 41, it's 44, and it's 46.7 four years from now for the player option.

Probably pick that one. I'll say you'd have to go to the games and watch them again. All right, who do you have? Next pick. Philly with a hardened Max. Oh, I had them too. But only with a hardened Max. No hardened Max?

I get to watch Joel. Yeah. Joel, Maxie. Wouldn't even think about it. Great fan base. Fun owners. What if it was hardened for two years at the Max? No, not on the list.

The five-year Harden Max, I'd be like, so you guys don't have cable? The five-year Harden Max is, I don't even. Do you hear people saying he's going to get it? I've heard so many hardened rumors with different teams that they're absolutely not going to offer in the max, that they want to sign and trade him. I don't know what to believe anymore.

I'm out. The last time I had real intel, this time I've heard so many different things that I don't know what to believe. What's the craziest hardened thing you've heard for the summer? I wonder if it's the same thing I've heard so many different things that I don't know what to believe. I mean, what's the craziest, hearted thing you've heard for the summer? I wonder if it's the same thing I've heard. Well, to me, the crazy one is giving him every dollar he's eligible for,

all right? But it's not crazy in the world of different, you tell me, like you're talking about him going somewhere else. This will get aggregated, so have fun. Yeah, I'm not gonna do it. I don't wanna get aggregated. My next, you Yeah, I'm not. I'm not going to do it. I don't want to get aggregated. My next, you took my next

pick, so I'm going to go with... But that's only, again, Sixers fans. That's only with a hardened full max. Fair. So, I have Brooklyn as my next pick, even though that's the best team we've picked. That's ridiculous. I just think that

I would not want to be in charge of that team. I'm out. I would just like I had But you have you have great ownership. You have a coach that's easy to get along with.

Do I have great ownership? Yeah, I think they're pretty good owners. Yeah? You don't think so? I don't know. They just let these two guys come in and completely

uproot their culture and the whole thing and basically let them be the GMs. You're forgetting when Kyrie and Katie went there, it was because the culture they had built, Kenny Atkinson. Yeah, and then they completely threw it in the dumpster.

But I don't think they're going to bring back Kyrie. I don't. And I don't know how Durant's going to handle that. My prediction is probably not well. What happens if Durant says, I don't want to be here anymore? Now what am I doing as the GM? How many Durant destination teams are there? Now I'm looking at Miami and I'm trying to talk myself into, can we get Jimmy Butler and Hero

for Durant? Miami's like, how about just Hero and Duncan Robinson? And I just think it'll be harder to move Durant to a team that would say, all right, if we trade for Durant, is he going to be happy here? And I think he's going to be unhappy if they ditch Kyrie. Durant for Tatum? I wouldn't do that. Health-wise, it's not an absurd thing to turn down. This could be his 15th season in the NBA, you know, or 16th.

He was 2007 draft. So, yeah. And you think like the amount of tax, they already have an expensive roster. And I just, I don't think there's a ton of moves with that. And I have to deal with the Ben Simmons thing. I mean, you got that too. That's a tough job. All right.

Last pick for you. Charlotte. Oh, okay. What's the case? I like the Atkinson hire. They just, they brought in a guy that wants to coach people they just got rid of that guy in borrego right you know uh your best player doesn't play i think there's going to be a little bit of a growing pain thing with lamello of like this is awesome in your dynamic but there's going to be some other stuff we're gonna need you to do a little bit more and mj is an owner you know he's mj so he gets kind of treated differently but there's what evidence is there other than he's

really bad at being an owner of a basketball team and it's not really a destination place and uh they've got to figure out some financial decisions of some players that I kind of like. But ultimately, you're probably as soon as you pay them, you go, shit, I can't believe we're paying this guy this much. It's a good pick. For my last pick, I had Atlanta. I think they're in a weird spot and they clearly have to make moves, but everyone in the league knows it. And I think that's a hard job to take over. I've got to pay Trey at some point, the max or super max, whatever he's worth. I'm not sure ultimately how far I'm going with a guy who can't really guard anybody as my best player, as we seem to realize every year when we get to the final four, how important defense is.

And then who do I put with them? They got weird contracts. The Collins thing is weird. Capella, Gallinari, I think is expiring. They're going to have to pay Hunter and it just feels like they're going to just get locked into this 43-44 win team unless they take a huge swing, which might be like Ben Simmons,

somebody like that. Who knows? But I think it would just be a really hard team to manage the next two years. And you're the fall guy if none of it works. I do like, though, that it seems like they're ready to load up. Maybe he'll almost give you too much talent.

But then again, who's the one guy that comes back? It's the four for one. It's like, that's the team that needs to just, that would be a good Bradley Beal team, right? Somebody like that. Some sort of legitimate second star.

Yeah, that would worry me a little bit, like backcourt defensively. Yeah, but you're already bad defensively, so you might as well just lean into it and try to outscore people. Yeah, I don't know if I'd pick them yet, but they were incredibly disappointing, and I would think, based on stuff you hear, that they'd be ready to kind of load people. Yeah, I don't know if I picked them yet, but, you know, they were incredibly disappointing and I would think,

based on stuff you hear, that they'd be ready to kind of load up to go, all right, you know, we have all these pieces. I mean, that's what's so awful about this season for them

because when the season first started, I thought, I'd watch them and go, look at all these guys they have. Look at all the talent. Look at the depth. Look at the different things

that they could do. And it's like, oh, they're actually, they're not going to be that good. You know what's interesting about this exercise? There's no like disaster of a team. There's no team that was just clearly the number one pick where you go, wow, that team.

Orlando has some options to maybe look really good in two years. Houston, you made the key Houston point. Jalen and the number three pick, those. Houston, you made the key Houston point. Jalen and the number three pick, those two assets, plus our guy, Shangoon. Um,

I wouldn't mind running that team. You know, I'm giving up on Garuba yet. Hmm. But like, think about if we did this in 2007, how fast we would have been fighting to make the Knicks the first pick, right?

They're like, Oh my God, it has to be the Knicks. They have no picks. They fucking suck. How about that, though? Nobody picked the Knicks. I think they have moves. I think they have cap space and they have picks and I like their young players and I think there's

the Derrick Rose, those kind of contracts, they can get out of those after next year. There's ways to extricate themselves out of the situation they're in. I'm more aware, like I look at Washington, it's like, all right, you're going to pay Porzingis and Beal a combined 75 million a year

so you can be a nine seed? You hope. I mean, that is just awful. All right, we're wrapping up. Russel is going to do his podcast. Probably it'll be up Tuesday morning. And then I'm going to have one. I'm going to try to do some sort of post-gamer

after tomorrow night. I'm going to the game. And then we'll see how this finals goes. Then we got the draft. Got to figure out a whole draft strategy too. Good to see you, Rusillo. This podcast was produced by Jesse Lopez. Thanks to Steve Cerruti, number one Chet Holmgren fan, and Dylan Berkey as well.

And we'll see you tomorrow. I don't have feelings within. On the wayside, I'm a person never lost. I don't have feelings within.