The Bill Simmons Podcast - Tatum’s 50 and PGA Picks With Joe House, Plus Dirk Nowitzki on Jokic, Luka, 2011, and Much More

Episode Date: May 19, 2021

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Joe House to discuss the Wizards’ loss to the Celtics in the play-in tournament, Jayson Tatum’s 50-point game, the anticipated Lakers-Warriors matchup, most fun play-in tournament outcomes, the upcoming PGA championship, and more (2:30). Then Bill talks with NBA champion Dirk Nowitzki about NBA playoffs stories, the 2011 NBA Champion Dallas Mavericks, Luka Doncic, Nikola Jokic, Brooklyn Nets head coach Steve Nash, and much more (50:30). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Dirk Nowitzki, Joe House Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, Rewatchables fans, if you haven't been checking out the feed the last few weeks or the last few months, you should check it out this week. We did Goodfellas, one of the five most important movies that we've done since we launched that podcast four years ago. You can check it out wherever you get your podcasts. The Rewatchables, Goodfellas, only on the Ringer Podcast Network. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to

have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this, it's game day, all the gangs here, you're tailgating outside the stadium. It's a great time for beer. Or how about when you're standing at the grill and the smell of sizzling burgers is in the air? Moments like that are when you want a light beer that tastes like beer, that's delicious. You don't want to load up on those heavier beers and then you only have two of them. Then you feel tired. Your stomach feels full. Miller Lite, it's your friend. It just accompanies whatever else you're doing. You're super happy with it. Opening an ice cold Miller Light can signal the beginning of Miller time. Miller Light is the light beer with all the great beer tastes we like. 90 calories per 355 mil can. So why not grab some Miller Lights today?

Your game time tastes like Miller time. Must be legal drinking age. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest rated sports book is the best place to bet at all. We've been doing pretty well on million dollar picks this year. I love the first month of the season because you have to go into the season thinking, I think Pittsburgh's going to be good. I think the Chargers are going to be good. I think Seattle's going to be good. And then trying to back what you think in those first few weeks and then zag the other way. If you were wrong, you could bet on new and fun markets on FanDuel, like to catch your pass, same game parlays, highest scoring game across the Sunday slate, offensive TDs, the next drive.

They have so much stuff. It's crazy. The app is safe and secure and easy to use. And when you win, you'll get paid instantly. Plus look out for FanDuel Squares this season. Here's what you have to do. Visit FanDuel.com slash BS to download America's number one sports book. The ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit RG-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. You must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem called Win 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com. We're also brought to you by the ringer.com as well as the ringer podcast network where we're dropping a podcast that we have not done before this week.

Keep an eye out for it. Check our social media feeds. It's dropping either Wednesday or Thursday. It involves a famous person and you are going to like it. I will give you the backstory on all of it on Thursday, but check out our social media feeds because we'll be announcing it, I think on Wednesday. So there you go. Coming up, Joe Hassan and I are going to talk about day one of the playing games. We're gonna do some PGA championship bets and a whole bunch more taping this, that part late night. And then, uh, Dirk Nowitzki, Hall of Famer. One of my favorites came on for an hour to talk basketball and Luca and 2011 and a whole bunch of other things. So good podcast ahead. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. Pro-Jab!

Alright, we are taping this. It is 8.30 Pacific time on Tuesday night. Just watch both playing games. They were a little lacking. I still like the playing concept. We're not here with Drunk House. We're here with Sober House. Joe House is here.

His team just rolled over to my team, which is really bad because my team has spent most of the season rolling over. But the Celtics advance. They beat the Wizards. Jason Tatum, 50 points. You and I both had bets. There were FanDuel odds, different ones. It was points, rebounds, and assists was like 45. His point total straight up, I think was 32, 32 and a half. I jumped on that. You jumped

on points, rebounds, assists. The bottom line is the Wizards had nobody to guard Jason Tatum. So you had to outscore us and you have Westbrook. We'll get into that. I don't know what happened with him. And then Beal, he was 10 for 25. He was, I would say 65% of a normal Bradley Beal. And that was the real reason he lost. You didn't have the guy to match Jason Tatum on a hot night. I think if you're healthy, it's a little bit of a different game. But what were you expecting going into this? Because you knew you had Beal at like two-thirds. Well, that's the whole breakdown.

That's the whole analysis. As you mentioned, the pregame is Tatum's the best guy on the floor. So the Celtics' best chance to win is Tatum taking over the game. There's no doubt for sure, 100%, the Wizards cannot stop Tatum. I bet both the over on the point total, over 32.5, and I jumped way in on the over for, I think it was 45.5 on combined points, rebounds, and assists. Absolutely giant winners, but

the thing that was going to offset the impact of Tatum was going to be the combination of Westbrook and Beal and something's wrong with Westbrook. The 65% of Beal is maybe the ceiling

with the hurt hamstring, so it means lots of pressure on Westbrook to deliver what he'd been doing over the past six weeks, which is a combination of him scoring his own points and getting 12 to 15 assists. And that just didn't happen. He had 14 rebounds, only had five assists.

He was six for 18, 0 for 4 from three, eight for eight from the line, but didn't have the usual kind of menacing, angry, over-competitive spirit. I had two different friends who don't know each other texting me during the game and asked, is Westbrook kind of trying to steer this so he gets to be in the 1-8 matchup against the Sixers?

Like half joking, but I was like, oh, maybe that's it. Maybe he's to be in the one eight matchup against the Sixers like half joking. But I was like, Oh, maybe that's it. Maybe he's not sick or injured. He just doesn't want to play Brooklyn because he knows they'll get their asses kicked by Brooklyn. It was a weird game because as you said, Westbrook was a man on a mission for two and a half months here. So I assume he had the flu or he had something wrong or something got dinged up because he didn't look like himself with that said what the hell is scott brooks doing hey welcome to the scott brooks experience baby this is scott brooks in prime time for the whole country to see any minute that alex len plays in a professional basketball game is a lost minute. I just, there's no explanation for Alex Len being on a basketball court

in a game of any significance or consequence whatsoever. He played, I think he played 12 minutes and was minus 15. What was it? Tell me. Yeah. 12 minutes, two for eight, minus 15. And Lopez, who just for Lopez and Ishmith always kill the Celtics. I have no idea why.

Lopez only played 16 minutes. I have no idea why he didn't play like 35. And then Ishmith, he actually wrote a little bit. He played 26. He had 17 and eight. There was a stat that the Celtics were only one of three teams that Ishmith averages double figures against. I don't know.

Call me crazy. Just play your best guys in a, in a playing game. Um, I don't get the Alex Lund thing at all. I didn't understand why they weren't throwing traps at Tatum and basically giving him the Dame Lillard Portland treatment, like in the Curry golden state treatment,

where you just, if you greet the guy over half court with two guys, make the ball swing around. Like I, it was like Scott Brooks was coaching a preseason game. I was confused by it. And on top of it, every minute Birdtown's played was a great minute for the Celtics.

Cause he was abominable, man. This is the thing I've been on this pod. I've been on other pods, you know, the wizards love. It's like their comfort blanket i called it in a text there the the wizards grossly overplaying uh overpaying a role player with with

a with a limited uh skill set is their comfort blanket that's their support animal we went right from four years of beyond me into a new four years of Davos Bertans. You defended it! Well, because... No, you defended it. You're a defender of the Bertans contract. You should be the next GM.

He showed a singular skill set that matches what the current state of the game requires. It just turns out he's capable of about nine effective minutes and anything beyond that is just clearly asking too much. Well, he somehow shot 40% for the year today. He was one for eight. There were a couple hilarious moments when he had to guard Jason Tatum. I don't know how that happened. And he had this great moment

where it looked like Neesmith poked him in the neck and he did the European soccer player went on the ground like he was shot. I thought they were going to stop the game. And then the Wizards got the ball back. I thought they were going to call a timeout. And they all just were like, Bertans is kind of dead on the floor.

Let's just play around him because he was dead anyway. What's the difference? He's a corpse whether he's standing or lying on the ground. Let's just keep going. And somebody made a three as he was just lying on the ground. Half dead.

Bill made a three. Bill's like, fuck this guy. I'm shooting anyway. Shot clock three. He made it. This game was ridiculous. My team, it looked like they were going to blow out your team.

And then the bench came in, and you got to see some of our terrible moves over the last couple years. The bench lets you back in the game. No energy coming out of the going into the half. But then Tatum did the thing. And, you know, look,

I'm not going to complain too much about the TNT and Marv Albert confusing Marcus Smart and Aaron Neesmith at least nine times during the game. I'm not going to complain. Marv's retiring after the year. It might be two years too late. After this game. It sounded like he retired before the game.

But TNT, like, wake the fuck up, dude. This counted as an official playoff game, right? Aren't these real playoff stats? I think so. The list of people who have scored 50 in a playoff game, it's not long. Yep. It's like less than 30 guys.

The list of guys, I actually looked this up. I went on Basketball Reference. I'm a subscriber to stat head. Hmm. Here are all the guys in the history of basketball in a playoff game who scored 50 points, took 35 shots and took 15 free throws. Michael Jordan, Elgin Baylor, Will Chamberlain, Rick Barry, Jerry West, Sam Jones, Russell Westbrook, Bob Pettit. And Jordan did it a couple of times. So it's only happened 11 times. Tonight was the 12th, not mentioned during the broadcast. Tatum was on it. He was great. He started out slow. I think

he was like one for five, one for six. And then I think he realized nobody on the Wizards could guard him. And this is maybe why you are better off not playing Brooklyn in a playoff series. I'm not sure who would have guarded Kevin Durant or James Harden. Look, I don't take it as a foregone conclusion that the Wizards are going to beat Indiana Thursday night. Me neither. Not with Beal. Not with 65% Beal. Plus, Indiana looked pretty good today.

Yeah. I mean, maybe Indiana had some figuring out to do defensively with Miles being out. Certainly, Charlotte aided and abetted the effort. Aided and abetted is a good way to put it because it was a crime. Yeah, exactly. It was a crime against basketball. A basketball crime was committed tonight. But, hey i i don't

i don't think this is going to come as a surprise we just watched the 9-10 team and the 7-8 teams play the game sucked the teams weren't very good like there's kind of a a point to this i am glad we are we have this though i do like this tournament. I want it to continue on. It's a neat way to incentivize the end of the season. It worked out awesome for Washington. The last two weeks of Washington games have been super exciting for me, even with, you know, some of these, the losses, the thing that was surprising to me about tonight, speaking of is this is the first time I have to go back and look. I don't think the wizards have lost by double digits in like a month. It feels like a month.

I don't know. I'll go look. But that's the thing about the Washington team. It's resilience. And that is all credit to Russell Westbrook and his just never give up mentality and the impact it had on the rest of the team. I have a very, very soft spot in my heart for this team

because of their effort, their effort to win, and they drug their ass back into competitive basketball. 17-6 over the last 23 games. They were 15-28 at the All-Star break and ended up 34-38. That's, you know, the last six weeks, two months of basketball in Washington was interesting and exciting. And there was a point to it

because of this play-in mechanism. So I hope it stays around. I also love the play-in thing. The detractors will be like, the game sucked tonight. This is why we didn't have play-in games. This is why we didn't do play-in tournament because these are all like mediocre teams. The thing with these goofy tournaments like the game sucked tonight. This is why we didn't have playing games. This is why we didn't do playing tournament. Cause the,

these are all like mediocre teams. The thing with these goofy tournaments, and you could even say this about March madness, the idea of it is usually more exciting than the actual basketball. Unless I say it again, unless you have the twist, which we have tomorrow night with the Lakers, which can be a fucking awesome game. The reason you have the twist, which we have tomorrow night with Golden State and the Lakers, which could be a fucking awesome game. The reason you have the

play-in tournament, Charlotte, Indiana, whatever, you're just serving burgers and fries with that game. That's it. But you're going to hope you have it over and over again. One of the conferences are always a little more stacked than the other. Usually it's the West. And you're going to have situations where 7-8-9-10 or 7-8-9,

you're actually going to have three really good teams. And tomorrow night, Golden State Lakers, like, like I'm not going to this, by the way, house, I will be there.

This would be my first. I'm fucking going to be in the house. Why not? You're coming. You're vaccinated. But yeah, I mean, this is why you have the playing tournament because Lakers

Warriors is going to be fun there's the urgency it's not life or death but you can feel it when your team you know they're up 10 and it's like oh man we could just clinch the 7th seed and not have to play on Thursday and I think you know you think

about tomorrow night with the Lakers if the Warriors I guess we can talk about that later, but if the words get a little hot and now it's like, holy shit, now the Lakers have to play the winner of San Antonio Memphis. Now this will win it out. It'll be something I'm pro playing game. I think it got people talking the last couple of weeks of the NBA season have perennially sucked year after year.

Very rarely can I remember anything that happened. And usually it's like all NBA arguments and that's it. So I'm glad they tried it. Kudos. Kudos. Kudos. Let's keep it around. I came up, I mean, dating back to 07,

I had different variations for how I thought this should go. I never had the idea of the 7-8 in 9-10 and then the losers of 7-8 plays the winner of 9-10. It's the best way to do it. I thought it should be the 7 versus 10, 8 versus 9 and if the lower seed wins, then you play it again. But I actually think this is a

better way to do it and I'm glad they settled on this. It rewards the team that earned the 7 spot with just win and then you get the extra rest and you preserve the spot that you've earned over the course of the regular season. It's more fair. I think, well, the Celtics dedicated the game to, uh, Jalen Brown's left wrist and Marv Albert, who apparently retired before the game. I love Marv Albert, but that was,

that was a rough broadcast, man. It was super. The volume was way down. Why was it so weird? You couldn't really hear the fans. It's the 73rd game. We've had all these games the whole season. TNT's been doing games all season. Why was it effed up?

And why weren't the announcers there? It's the fucking playoffs. Why are we doing this on Zoom? All due respect. I mean, we don't, we want Marv. We don't want to kill Marv. Don't have Marv. Have a younger vaccinated announcer who's not afraid to be in the building. Like, what are we doing?

It's a playoff game. Are they going to have the announcers at the game tomorrow night? I hope so. Do you want to state Lakers? Can we have the announcers in the building, please? We're not in charge, but it does seem like a good idea. God. answers in the building please we're not in charge but it does seem like a good idea god well brooks we mentioned him mothballing uh lopez and ish smith which i didn't really understand

the foul advantage were you mad about the the big foul discrepancy all that stuff marvin was trying to get you agitated about it but you weren't part i mean part of the thing is coming in i i mean i i think I texted you Sunday. It's like, there's going to be Scott Foster involved in this game. And I didn't know which way it was going to cut. You know, I thought the league would have an interest in seeing Russell Westbrook up against his old former teammate, his nemesis, Kevin Durant,

and Russell Westbrook against James Harden and the Wizards against Brooklyn. The Wizards played Brooklyn awesome in the regular season. They beat them twice. And, you know, it's an interesting matchup. I don't think the Wizards were going to beat Brooklyn. They might have been lucky to win one game, but motivated Russ, and this is clearly

Russell Westbrook's team. He is the leader of this Washington team. This would be the first time since Oklahoma City that he was the absolute unmitigated leader of a team, and it would have been fun

to see him because Oklahoma City, when he was there, he didn't go up against Durant, right? In the playoffs? Westbrook? No, they never went head-to-head. Right. So this would have been the first occasion. He went against Harden. I thought we might have gotten a different

little lean with the refereeing, but Washington didn't do itself any favors. There was a foul discrepancy. Um, it felt, you know, normal to me. I, maybe I'm, I'm used to it. Maybe it's, uh, whatever the syndrome is for however many decades I've been watching Boston get calls in its own building. What about the syndrome for Rui Hachimora as the ninth pick followed by Cam Reddish, Cam Johnson, PJ Washington, and Tyler Hero.

How do you, how are you feeling about that all these years later? I'm still fine. I really, I like the upside. I like Rui Hachimor. I think, I like that you like him because I don't see it.

I don't really totally understand what he does. He, I wouldn't call him a, an elite perimeter defender. He's, he's got great instincts. He, he has to remember, I don't think he's been playing basketball,

any organized basketball, for 10 years yet. I don't think he's reached the 10-year mark of organized basketball in his life. Don't fact-check me on this. But he also was injured a couple different times over the course of this season. He runs great. He's great on the fast break.

The combination of him and Westbrook have some elite assist execution ratios kind of stuff. Some of the advanced analytics on those guys as a combo are great. So I'm bullish on Rui. I think he's an excellent 11th man. Hey, house. Golden State Lakers tomorrow. That's going to be good.

I have a little Fandle, little boost bet. That's going to go live on Wednesday. You ready for this? Yes. I love it when you spring these on me. It's the Bill Simmons bird bet boost. Do you know what a bird bed is?

No. So the whole genesis of fantasy basketball, way back in the mid-80s, fantasy basketball started in Boston. I know you're going to think I'm like a homer, bullshit. It started somewhere. It started in Boston with a bunch of sports writers in like the 82, 83 range.

They created something called the Larry Bird League. Okay. It was points, rebounds, and assists. And they just did a draft. They named it after Bird. They called it a Bird League. And I think he even knew about it. So it's just points, rebounds, assists.

That's it. All right. So Fando was like, come up with a bet for the playoffs. And I said, let's do a Bird bet. Let's do points, rebounds, assists. We'll pit two players against each other.

So the players are going to be Steph Curry and LeBron James. Great. Not sure if you've heard of those two. Yeah. Curry, minus four and a half points, rebounds, plus assists over LeBron. Sure.

They're going to boost that. You can go on FanDuel tomorrow and you can see what the actual boost is for. So what you're saying is like, you bet that, what is it? The opening line would be minus 110. Something like that.

They'll give us a little boost. But then we'll get, yeah. Yeah. So Steph is like, Steph has 45, eight and six. Yeah.

So that would be just a 59. And then LeBron has 30, 10, and 9. And Steph beats him on that. So check that out on FanDuel. We're going to take a break. I'm going to tell you even more about FanDuel. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance.

Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you can still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now.

Just search Movember. Quickly, some basketball stuff that's not related in the Celtics whiz. We got Indy Washington. And I'm with you. If Beal is two-thirds what he normally is and Westbrook's got something funky going on with the way Indiana

has looked really since Coach Nate seemed like he was having a breakdown, but then he didn't. That's a scary Indiana team because they have talented players. I really like Sabonis. I think Brogdon's good. I like their bench. They get, they'll have the random McDermott or TJ McConnell or one,

you know, one of the holidays. They just have random dudes that can take over a quarter. And I think Sabonis is the best player in that game. If Beal's compromised. And I think you're in trouble house. I thought Indiana was going to beat Charlotte. I actually think they're going to beat your team too.

I, if, if Indiana comes out and makes three of their first four threes or some number of threes at the beginning that gives them confidence to keep stroking threes, the Wiz will be in trouble. Because that's a weak point for this Wiz team. On FanDuel right now, this doesn't seem like a typo. It says the Wizards are favored by three and a half. Well, the Wizards beat the Daylights out of the Pacers in recent memory.

And, you know, it's a tough matchup for the Pacers. Winbill and Westbrook are going downhill. The question is, will they be going downhill on Thursday? We don't know. It's going to be here Tuesday night. Well, I like Indiana. I think that's a smart bet. The Lakers are favored by five and a half over the Warriors.

Here's my Warriors take really quick. Here's how I think that the game is going to have to go. First of all, if I'm betting the Warriors, I'm betting the money line, which is plus 194, and I'm betting the over. I'm parlaying those two. And if you parlay those two... That's the same game parlay. They do those on FanDuel.

Yeah, that'll be 43 to plus 430, basically. So you bet 100, you win 430. Here's why I would suggest that. I think the Warriors are going to have a game plan in this game. They're going to shoot a lot of threes. I'm not, this isn't rocket science, but when I say shoot a lot of threes, I think they're going to try to go like 24 for 55.

Sure. They're going to try to make at least 23s. You see what happened on Sunday with Steph, where he by himself, I think was like 12 for 22, something like that. I think they're just going to do a Daryl Morey. They're just going to try to jack the math. They're going to be firing them up and they're going to try to get to like 23, 24, 25 made threes. They're going to quick, quick the pace. They're going to try to get the Lakers a little out of their comfort zone. And they know like, they're not going to have the size. So they're going to try to get the Lakers a little out of their comfort zone. And they know like they're not going to have the size.

They're going to run. They're going to shoot threes, which leads me to my point. If they win, I think it'll be because it'll be like a 138 to 130. They hit 25 threes type of game. I think that's worthy of a plus 430 bet, frankly. Yeah. I mean, I'll sprinkle a tiny bit on that. You got to have something on these games for the

interest but it's just overall intriguing to have Steph who I love in these last handful of games you know folks coming out of the woodwork this is my MVP it's Steph Curry and by the way you know I admire it like I admire everything that he's done. Because you look at that Warriors team. Holy cow. That is not a playoff team by any measure. Maybe in the East that's a playoff team. But Steph Curry has been unbelievable.

I just can't come up with the, you know. Them beating the Lakers? Well, it's not the beating part. It's just what they have to make so many threes. It just feels like it's not in the realm because, you know, Davis and LeBron able to exert their will both on pace, controlling the ball, controlling rebounds

is just too big a task for the Warriors. That's all. And you figure they're going to trap Steph. They're going to make him get rid of the ball constantly. They'll probably guard him

with bigger dudes. So when Draymond does like the pick and flip it to him, they'll have somebody else in there that can just jump out or at least have some size.

I think that, you know, I think the Lakers will, will probably win. I think they're the safe bet. My point is if the Warriors win, it will be the scenario we laid out. I agree with you. A lot of threes. It will be a high scoring game. San Antonio Memphis.

So we've hit an interesting point with John Morant. Now we took a pretty big, uh, shellacking on Sunday. And even Chris Vernon, who we make fun of Chris Vernon all the time on text, even he's a gets a little testy with the John Morant stuff about, you know, that that's like, you know, he's the, he's Memphis's guy. And it's like, Hey, Hey, John teams are now five feet off of you in, in important games. You need to fix this. I'll be interested to see how San Antonio does it tomorrow. I think they're going to try to Jedi mind trick. They might go seven feet off them.

I'm going to go glass half full on this John Morant thing. I think second year guy, all the hallmarks of a super duper star potentially on a team that is so much a work in progress. I think you and I agree.

The second best player on that team is triple J who was out for an extended period. He's come back. He's reintegrating and I'm not, I'm prepared to give jaw a little bit of space to just sort of develop and let this team come together. And the Grizzlies on the brink of making the playoff two consecutive years, years which, you know, for other franchises would have been complete rebuild years, not sniffing the playoffs at all. And a lot of that I give credit to Ja for.

So the competitiveness of the Grizzlies is super impressive. They have a terrible time scoring at the end of games. We've been talking about it on this pod for a little bit. And so I I'm fine with it. I don't have a rooting interest. Do you care who wins between the Spurs and the Grizzlies other than for our boy Verno? Yeah, I'm rooting for Memphis. Verno made a good point about Memphis plays that game Sunday. It was a 1230 game. They just traveled like 2,000 miles.

It was like a slight schedule fuck job. They'll be in better shape for this one. I think they're better than San Antonio. I also think that Golden State game, I thought they played really hard and two things flipped it, right? Brooks fouled out on a dumb foul. Yeah.

And Curry just turned into Curry. And at some point, you can't really do anything about that, but they played good. I thought good defense on him. They made him work. They had a good plan. I didn't think job played very well, but I think they can play better than that. So actually, that line is Memphis minus four

near minus 174. I don't love the minus four, but maybe you parlay that with, how about with the Nets in game one against the Celtics? Minus 350. Do a little minus. I can't bet against the Celtics. I'm just floating that out there for America. Yeah, I like Memphis a little more in that one.

So we'll see. We'll see from Ja. I think this is a pretty big spotlight for him, though. It's fun to have playoff basketball in this manner at this stage of the season, like a little bit of an amuse-bouche. You know, I like appetizers. I like to fill up my plate with appetizers.

So I've decided I like Denver. I was ambivalent on it on Sunday with Rosillo. I just thought even series, two weird seasons by the teams involved. They have a whole history of competitive stuff. But the more I looked at it, it just feels like a Jokic kicks everyone's ass series. And I do like that Denver can throw some size at them. Sure. With,

uh, they can basically, they can throw Jokic out there with Porter and Gordon and Will Barton and play rivers as the fifth. I think the rivers thing was a sneaky good signing by them because he's got size. He knows where to go. He's not going to be scared.

And I think they have some nice size to throw at Portland, at least to like contest some of these shots and Portland, Portland at one point this year, it looked like their season was over and then they rallied a little bit. But if you look at the wins, you know, it wasn't as impressive as it seemed on paper. If you go win by win. And I just, I just think Jokic is the best player in that series. And I can't believe that Portland's favorite. Denver has home court, by the way, that game sevens in Denver, we saw today home court matters at least a little bit here plus the altitude. And I mean, it hasn't even been a full calendar year since we had that bizarre. I mean, bizarre is, is, is understating it. It's not fair to call it

bizarre. What Denver did in the playoff bubble was extraordinary. Now I know Jamal Murray was such a, an important part of it, but all of those, those role guys making the contributions, just being around it by, uh, you know, um, taking, the atmosphere of it and the experience of it, all of that has to have some impact. And I liked Denver for the narrative of Yoke, which, uh, validating his MVP vote.

Yep. And I liked the Porter piece of it too, because he was so good the last two months of the season. And I honestly don't think they have people to guard him. And they, you know, they, I think he can have big series.

So that would be great. The breakout series for Porter would be incredible because we, we have seen the best version of Porter on a sustained basis over these two months. That's the point you just made. Yeah. And I, I think,

look, the Murray thing sucks, but they can patch together most of his points with Porter. Defensively, Portland was going to score whoever the guards were anyway, you know, but Murray McCollum and Dame are going to get to 55 to 60 every game. That's happening anyway. I just feel that there's just a whiff, just a dusting of viewing theory with this team, with the Nuggets.

Really? Dusting, just a dusting. Okay. I this team, with the Nuggets? Oh, really? Dusting? Just a dusting. Okay. I get, I understand the point. People cross them off, right? My, my thing is this. Here's how I look at the playoffs. I think it's going to be Philly cruising to the East finals, playing Brooklyn, unless

something weird happens with Brooklyn, which is very possible. Then you go to the West. I think the Lakers get there and there has to be another team that the Lakers play. And you could talk me into seven teams. You could make the Luca case for me right now. And I wouldn't shut it down. You can say, Luca, Luca is just going to get hot for two straight rounds and they're going to be in the West finals.

I'm like, all right, I wouldn't bet my life against that. Um, you could make a Clippers case. I'm a little lukewarm on that team, but just the way, you know, the way it lined up where they get Dallas in round one and probably Utah in round two. Um, you could, you could make, uh, a stealth case. I mean, really stealth for just Curry going out of his mind for two straight rounds, upsetting Utah and then upsetting the winner of the four or five series. I don't know. My point is, I think somebody weird is in that other spot. We've seen that sometimes, right? A couple of years ago, Portland was all of a sudden the other team in the Western finals. And we're like, how'd they get here? So I think it's Lakers against the, how'd they get their team? And Denver's a great pick for that. Everyone's off Denver because of the Murray thing. And they still have the best offensive player in the league

this year. How's it going to work out? Lakers win tomorrow. They clinch seven, and they play Phoenix, which is just a catastrophe for Phoenix. That's a shame.

I was with you. you've publicly loved phoenix really since like christmas i mean since you know the beginning of the year and i too have come to really appreciate them i love all of the effort that folks across the league are making to get chris paul on an all nba first team i've admired uh everything with that team. They're going to lose to the Lakers in the first round, I'm afraid. The other one is we're going to bet on Milwaukee and put them in different parlays with people. Yeah, we already have one with Denver.

We'll do, God, I can't bet against the Celtics, unfortunately. You should, though. I'm going to encourage you to do it. It's like when I encourage you to bet on MVP picks, stuff like that. I think throwing Milwaukee in with Milwaukee's minus 310

on FanDuel right now, just put them with... They're not losing to Miami. It's not happening. Everyone's trying to talk themselves into Miami. They're not losing to Miami in round one. They're beating Miami. Okay. I'll take it. Yeah, so the. Okay. I'm giving you that one. Okay. I'll take it. Yeah.

So the most fun scenario is Golden State wins tomorrow night. And they play Phoenix in round one. And that series is awesome. And then the Lakers play Utah. And we can get Utah out of there. That's so mean. Let's get Utah out of there. Oh, you're going to get some stuff.

You're going to hear some stuff, buddy. I've had enough of Gobert. I can't watch Gobert anymore. I just need a break. See you next year, Gobert. People from Utah do not like this. I'm not allowed to have an opinion on the basketball playoffs? Governor Cox is going to be tweeting at you.

You're going to get a letter. You're going to get a note from Governor Cox. I do like visiting Utah. It's a great state. What's your pick, by the way, for the finals right now? I have Philly Lakers. I have Milwaukee Lakers. Okay.

Yeah. I like Milwaukee as a stealth coming out of that because I agree that something weird is going to happen with Brooklyn. I don't think all three guys are going to be healthy through the, through the balance of the, of the playoffs. Although I I'm rooting for it. I want to see all those guys healthy, but I don't think it's going to happen.

I think it would be fun if Brooklyn lost. I say this as a, as a fan. I don't say this as a person in the media who has a vote on all NBA and stuff like that. I just think Brooklyn's been annoying. I really liked Nash. I've known him for a long time. I wish him the best, but Kyrie today, he had this quote about him and Durant two years ago. No one really saw the vision that we had.

We probably won't get the credit until 10 years down the line, 20 years down the line. That's just how history goes. It would be so fun if they lost to Milwaukee. I would really get a kick out of it. That's just how history goes. It would be so fun if they lost to Milwaukee. I would really get a kick out of it. That's just how history goes. That's also just how history goes. If you throw together teams, then they lose. Hey, quickly before we go, because it's like past midnight your time. Golf.

There's a major this weekend. It's major championship week. Absolutely. We have basketball. We have hockey hockey playoff basketball our two teams are beating the shit out of each other those guys have been amazing shout out to the hockey fans i'm sorry that that we didn't talk more about about this i'm still reconnecting with professional hockey like i'm i had to turn my brain needed a break from it

during the the the pandemic year i i couldn't really get my head around it. But the Bruins and the Caps are a super even matchup. And it's drawing me back in. I'm going to go to one of these games in Washington. You should. Playoff hockey is the effing best with fans. I mean, Florida already has the stadium packed. Florida's hosting Tampa.

Not an empty seat in the house. And they're slowly opening up. I want to go. I mean, it's awesome. Our teams are crazy evenly matched. And I mean, I'm not going to gamble on this with you. I'm not going to gamble on it. I can see the winner actually making

the cup finals. I watch every minute of both games. Yeah. Both teams are really good. Your team's more physical. Yeah. My team's got more finesse. My top two lines are excellent. Your goalkeeper, I mean, we have poor Craig Anderson.

Yeah, you have the 39-year-old backup goalie in there, which is good for us. But yeah, I mean, you're up with three minutes left in game two. It's really fun to watch. And for some reason, every time the Caps and the Bees play, it's always like these exciting one goal games. I'm sure game three, we head back to Boston. And I'm sure one of these games is going to be the super chippy,

a couple of fights. Tom Wilson's going to take somebody out at some point. Ovechkin is so much fun to root against. I know you've followed him forever, but he's just a fucking dick. Well, you get to root against not just Ovechkin, but Tom Wilson, too.

The league villain, Tom Wilson. But Ovechkin slides under the radar. He gets a little Cam Neely-ish sometimes. He lays it out. He's talking shit. It's, I immediately was like, fuck this guy. I hate this guy.

Yeah. He's had a career of being the tough Russian. He looked, game one, he, he, in the first period, he was incredible.

Throwing it around. Oh, he really, it was like old school Ovechkin, but that series is great. It's definitely going seven. There's no question. A hundred percent.

Win probably an overtime game seven. My dad has texted me like, I don't know if I could take this. It's so good. I'm not ready. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's he's feeling it. All right. Golf really quick. Here's my theory on the PGA house. Okay. Feels like a 27 and under winner. A little like Morikawa last year. You're looking for a young guy. Okay. Feels like a 27 and under winner. A little like Morikawa last year. You're looking for a young guy. Okay. I want to, I want a young, I want a young stud. All right. Who either hasn't had his moment yet. I'll have Morikawa Morikawa last year, or the young studies already had a moment, but now this one happens. And now we start really taking this person seriously as, oh shit, second major already. He's only 25. He's only 26. Who is that? My, my money right now,

and I'm not doing anything without consulting to you with you on gambling. My money right now is drifting toward Victor Hovland, who is 22 to one on FanDuel right now. Yeah. I think he fits my profile for what I'm looking for. I don't feel like he's had his moment yet. Yeah. Victor with a K might be my guy. What do you think of that one? Well, as you were describing your profile for this, and I think there's something to it. Victor Hovland is indeed the guy that immediately jumped to mind for me for this particular venue and, and what folks are anticipating. There is a lean, a kind of this, this thesis, uh, we've been exploring around the idea of non U S players having success. Now, Howland is, is Norwegian and has played a lot of golf,

um, in, in the U S but we think it's going to be like a European kind of player or an Australian kind of player because the golf course is sited right next to the ocean. It is indeed the ocean course, and we think it's going to, you know, the predominant defense of the golf course is the wind. So you need guys that are great second shot approach guys. You need guys that are great ball strikers.

You need guys that have accuracy off the tee. Hovland's been on a heater in those categories over like the last, you know, three months. And he also doesn't get rattled. He started off the Masters with a seven he triple bogeyed one his first hole of the masters and then came all the way back around and ended up you know top 15 uh and and you know rounds in the 60s and stuff so uh hoblin's a great a great call i have in fact bet on victor hoblin already he's plus 450 to finish top five, which I also like. That's another good

one. Get on it. I have a small taste on him to win. I'm going to bet him to top 10 and to top five. Morikawa is plus 600 if you're thinking back to back for a top five finish. Spieth, who a lot of people like because of the course, is plus 280

for top five. I'm one of the guys that likes Spieth. Outright winner is 18 to 1. five i'm one of the guys that outright speed outright winner is 18 to 1 so i'm betting him to win and to top five top 10 i'm doing all speed bets the the one of the elements of this golf course um that that's also gonna come through is guys that can save par from around the green so your your second, you hit a great second shot, then a gust of wind comes up and knocks it down, and all of a sudden, the shot that would have landed in the middle of the green instead runs on the front

and rolls all the way down, and now you have to try and get up and down for par. So you need guys that can scramble their ass off. Jordan Spieth is a magician at that. And on that same basis, I have a little taste on Patrick Reed, who's got a ton of scramble in his arsenal. So Patrick Reed, he's a little further down, right? Yeah, yeah.

So he's going to get... Top five, he is plus 750 for top five. I'm going to play him to top 10. I'm not going to play him to top five, but I just love his skill set under these conditions. Top 10 on FanDuel, he is plus 410. I like not going to play him to top 5, but I just love his skill set under these conditions. Top 10 on FanDuel. He is plus 410. I like that one, House. Yeah, that's 4-1 for a guy

who can get up and down from anywhere. How about Patrick Cantlay, who can't lay me last time in the Masters. I didn't get laid at all from Patrick Cantlay. He sucked ass. He was the only guy that really let me down. Do we think he comes back? Well, he, he's, he's very, he scores very favorably in advanced analytics that, that, you know, if you create a kind of profile for this golf course, it's a Pete dive venue.

He has some good performance at Pete dive venues. And, you know, based on what the assessment is around the attributes, you need to be successful, he's there. He just hasn't shown us anything. Now, I learned my lesson from the Masters where you said to me, well, what about Hideki Matsuyama? And I said, well, if you want to throw your money away, go ahead and bet on Hideki Matsuyama. He can't putt. I'm not doing that. I'm not in that business of crossing anybody off anymore.

But what I do is say we haven't seen it from him um that doesn't mean it can't happen but you know it would come as a bit of a surprise um because if you're looking for guys in form you're looking more at guys like victor hovland more guys like jordan speed more guys like daniel burger that's a guy that I have my eye on a U S guy. He shot 63 on Sunday in Texas. Yeah. His odds were a little higher than I was prepared for. Sure. He's just to win the tournament. He is sick. Uh, he's six to one to finish top five. Yeah, that's pretty good. Well, that's pretty good. And then he's a 30 to1 to win the tournament. What about Barstool Brooks? Is that what we're calling him now?

Yeah, I think we got to call him. If he's tweeting a port, you got to use Barstool Brooks. Well, if he's not just tweeting at him, they're going to have the head-to-head. He's going to play left-handed against him. I think it's awesome. By the way, Barstool Brooks has a big gut right now. And this is the version of Koepka that i'm most enamored of

this is i want my brooks kepka with a nice i want to look like he's enjoying his michelob ultras when he's out on the golf course um it's impossible to say he's he his knee was hurt before the masters um he didn't play great at the masters. He says it's much, much better now. Who knows? I don't know. What you see on social media is him swinging left-handed. I hope it doesn't hurt the knee any further. I mean, he's owned the PGA championship since 2015, but who the hell knows? I'm glad that this is going against all the game ones of the playoffs because the game ones, usually there's only like a couple of good ones. There's usually more blowouts and 18 point finals and 20 point finals,

stuff like that. I'm glad it's not like next week when the, it's like now we're into the game for game five situations. It's perfect timing. Cause you're going to be able to flip over and see this golf course sitting next to the ocean. And what we're really doing is revving up for the summer right now. Like all of us, right? We're all building to this moment where we're,

we're all going to be allowed to come out of our houses. We're going to be able to travel. We're going to go to the beach and we're going to see this effing golf course on the beach. There will be fans there. It's in South Carolina. Believe me, there will be fans there. And it just, it gives the right kind of vibe, I think, for what we're all after. Bruins caps Friday, Sunday, I think. We'll have to come up with a bet.

Maybe not. Maybe it's better to just enjoy it. I think we've over the years, our teams have rarely played each other, but I think we've navigated most notably the John Wilde jumping on the score table series and Oubre got in a fight with Olenek

and it never affected us. We were good the whole time. Next time, next golf major, by the way, we'll be together. You're going to come out here for the British. Well, the U.S. Open is in June. We'll figure out. I'm going to come out for one of them.

We got to play some golf. We got to eat some food and play some golf. Yeah, you're right. You got to do it. All right, fairway rolling. You got another one coming when? Tomorrow. Well, we're recording this Tuesday night.

So in the next fairway rolling, we have Rick Gaiman and Pat Mayo, two homies, two golf, deep golf analytics fellas, helping us sort out our dance cards. We've got DFS lineups. We've got bets that we're making, top five, top tens, who to fade. It's a gangbuster of a show. And, of course, the Nate Dogg is prominently involved. So that'll be up all day tomorrow as you try and finalize your lineup.

The February roll and dough contest on FanDuel. Yeah. Still plenty of spots available. It's a $5 single entry. You win 5,000 bucks this week if you put in the best entry. And there's $50,000 in guaranteed prizes over the course of the season. All four majors. There's still time to jump in if you didn't do well in the Masters

or you didn't put in an entry in the Masters. Doesn't matter. Jump in there. Get on it. There's a or you didn't put in an entry in the Masters. Doesn't matter. Jump in there. Get on it. There's a blue jacket waiting for you at the end of this thing. If you win, I'm going to wear my blue jacket over the weekend while I'm watching the Caps. Yeah, all you do is go to FanDuel and just search for Fairway Roland Doe. And you could compete against me and House and Nathan and everybody else.

And Kevin Clark's in there. Kevin Clark potentially win a jacket. All right, House. Go to bed. Good to see you. Sorry. Good times. Sorry, my sad ass team kicked the sack

out of your sad ass team. It's fine. The payoff is you're going to the Celtics are going to lose to Kyrie Irving. I got to say, I was kind of hoping they would play Philly instead.

I don't want to lose to Kyrie Irving. It's going to happen. I'm sorry. I would have to. Oh, man. I'm just sad. All right, I'll see you later. Allving. It's going to happen. I'm sorry. I would have to, oh man, I'm just sad. All right, I'll see you later. All right, see you.

We're going to take a break. All right, this is a hard man to get. I don't even know what part of the world he's in now. There's just a blank background. Dirk Nowitzki is here. Retired Hall of Famer. Legends. Basketball playoffs are about to start.

Are you watching at all? What happens with you when you retire? Do you still watch? Do you tune in TNT? Do you dabble? What's your rooting habits these days? Well, I haven't watched as much as I probably should be. You know, I traveled a little bit.

You know, that was one of my goals after retirement. I wanted to travel the world with the kids. We have family all over the world. I did some of that. Of course, now the season's heating up. I'm watching a little more and I'm, of course, excited hopefully for the Mavs playoffs

run. I went to my first game last week, actually, in Dallas. I'm watching a lot more now that it's crunch time. Let's talk Luka first because they're playing the Clips. First of all, the Clips tank

the last two games to play Dallas and to get out of the Lakers' side of the bracket. And, you know, you played for two decades. How much do you take that? You used to take some stuff personally. You would take some slights from time to time. Do you take that?

Would you take that personally? Do you even need motivation when it gets to the playoffs? How would you have reacted to that? Not really. I think the playoff time is just such a great time with a great atmosphere. You've been playing a super, super long regular season. We all agree it's way too long to get to this moment.

So I don't really think there is any added motivation going on. You just, the team that comes, you have to prepare for and you're fired up to play. You know, now we have a little history with the Clippers since we played them in the bubble and there was some stuff going on. With Luka and some fouls the Mavs weren't happy

about. So I don't think there needs to be added motivation. I think the Clippers are a great team. They're well coached and they're deep. And so the Mavs are going to have their hands full there. Obviously, the Clippers are going to be the heavy favorites. But if the Mavs stay healthy

and Luka has a great series, I think that can make it very interesting. In your career, how many times did you take something personally? Because I can specifically remember 2011 finals when you were sick and LeBron Wade and they

kind of made a snide comment about it. That you took personally, but you were on a mission that whole playoffs, but that specifically you were a little salty about. Yeah, I didn't like that, of course. Like I said in the press conference the day after, I've never in my career faked an illness or an injury. I always, when I was ready to play, I played.

And so I didn't love that. But at the end of the day, I was one win away from my dream. I wasn't really letting that get into my head too much, but of course I wasn't a big fan of that. But other than that, I think there is a little trash talking in there. Some matchups mean a little more than others. Me and KG always had great battles over the years.

He was a talker. But I'm the guy that usually try to approach every game the same. Help your team win and try to get baskets. I mean, I was a great defender. I was a great rebounder. I was a great passer. The way I impacted the game was in scoring. So to me, I try to approach the game always the same,

and that's establish myself, score early, get your rhythm, and then sort of drag your teammates along. But my best trade was scoring the ball, so I tried to do that early and often. You weren't a great rebounder, but you were a sneaky, good rebounder. In big games,

you would end up with 15, 16, 17, so you were a very good rebounder. I wouldn't say I was a great rebounder. I was a decent rebounder. Like when I first got in the league, I was super skinny. And I had to work on my body. I think it's normal. My body wasn't quite NBA ready.

You know, the muscle, Charles Barkley and all these big guys on the basket. So as my body matured, I got a little stronger. And, you know, I mastered the tipping thing a little bit. So I tipped some balls to myself. So, yeah, I had a decent nose for the ball, but I was never really a great grinder, push guys out of the way, rebounder.

That was just not me. But when it was in my vicinity, I like to think that I was able to go up there and get it. You know, I was looking at go up there and get it. You know, I was looking at the all MBAs. You actually made all MBA as a center in like 2001 back. Cause I was trying to figure out like how many times were the positions just goofy,

but you made it one time. I liked that. You said KG was kind of a talker. I think that's the understatement of the century. All he's doing is just dropping F-bombs on everybody on the court for two straight hours. But you kind of enjoyed it. You had like a good back and forth with him.

So at the beginning, I got to say, he got on my skin a little bit. I mean, when he was still in Minnesota, I remember my first game there, and he would like come right up to my face and talk to me. And my English wasn't as great. So I was a little nervous anyway. So he definitely got to me early. But once I had a little experience

and I knew how to handle it a little better. But I remember there were games where, you know, we'd play and I'd come out of my huddle. We had a timeout. I'd come to my huddle and he would walk down from his huddle and stand right outside our huddle. So when I walked out of my huddle. We had a timeout. I'd come to my huddle, and he would walk down from his huddle and stand right outside our huddle. So when I walked out of the huddle, he was already right here in my face, walking with me every step.

I remember thinking, this guy is intense, man. This guy is great. So we've had some great battles. And as you know, greatness tries to bring greatness out of whoever you're playing. So I try to compete as hard as I could and still try to attack as great defense. You know, when he was on the Celtics, the first couple games, he was like that.

I hadn't had the experience of just watching him day after day. And it was like, he's not going to be like this the whole season, right? And then it turns out he was like that every single game. it didn't matter. He played the worst team in the league. Yeah. He's banging his head against the basket support. C-Web got into the hall of fame. They announced, and you know, there's this five-year run early in your career. Um, as you're hitting the first peak of your prime where you're in there. KG's in there. There's still a little

Carl Malone. Duncan is at his apex. And then C-Web is toe to toe with everybody there for like five years. And I was surprised it took this long for him to get in the Hall of Fame. I mean, obviously he had controversial trade out of Golden State. The Washington experience didn't go right. But when you combine the stuff he did for that five, six year stretch with the Michigan stuff and what that college team meant, I thought it was a no brainer.

But do you feel like out of all the guys from this era, I feel like his peak C-Web has kind of been lost over the course of history. You went against him a shitload of times. Like, did you feel like he was on par with you and Duncan and everybody else? He was up there. And I feel like he was on par with you and Duncan and everybody else? He was up there and I always say he was a mismatched nightmare because he was so

good on the block, but then he developed a little 17, 18 footer. He was one of the best passers at the big position, the Liga scene. So he was a great all-around player and basically put up triple doubles at will, especially with that shooting

they had around them and Vlade. And so they had a great team. And they really see web. And I think that whole Kings team, to me, was a little underappreciated. To me, they should have had a ring. Of course, there was some controversy that one year in the league.

They had an amazing team. And plus the crowd there. I can't imagine how much fun that was to compete for that team and be on that team while they were sharing the ball. They were fantastic. I'm happy for C-Web. He was a great player, great playmaker,

shot maker, and well-deserved. You guys had some good series and games against that team. It was during a time in the NBA when, I mean, honestly, 80% of the league was pretty boring to watch. It was slow. The games were 85 to 80. They were really physical.

And then it was like you guys, Sacramento, then when Nash went to Phoenix. But for the most part, it was the kind of wide open game that now we have. Now we take every game is one 25 to one 15, one 20 to one 17. But there was two seasons there when it was just you two were the only teams playing like that. And I feel like it was a little ahead of its time.

Looking back. Yeah. I think that was sort of the, the time where the league was changing, the basketball was changing. Nelly obviously being the visionary, he was never a big defensive guy. He was a mismatched kind of offensive play-calling guy. And, yeah, we always loved to score in bunches.

He loved to play four or five shooters at a time. I remember he even had Bradley and Rafe LaFrance at the time pop back to 17, 18 foot and Rafe sometimes shoot three. We always tried to attack and outscore people. That was our way of playing it. That was sort of the time the league

was changing. I think more fouls were getting called. The hand check was taken away. They were putting in zone around that time. Teams were forced to do other things and move the ball a little more, get everybody involved. And not just have one guy dribble the ball 10 times until he's under the hoop and lay it in.

This was more forcing the movement and enjoy playing with each other. And Sacramento, to me, was a perfect example. Their ball movement and shooting from the perimeter was unbelievable to watch. So I think that time everybody was starting to change and see that the fives had to do more than just rebound and bang, now they're bringing the ball up to shoot threes

and it's just been the evolution of the game that started there has been super fun to watch. When you watch basketball now, how jealous are you that you didn't, that Prime Dirk wasn't playing in the way? I mean, you easily would have been 30 a game, I feel like. And you probably shoot more threes, right?

Yeah, you know, it would have been definitely fun. It seems like, it looks like the courts are wide open for drives, for drive and kick, for shooting, obviously, for the trailer position. There's just not a lot of paint traffic there. And that definitely would have been fun. But, you know, obviously it would have been way more of a five, maybe start the game big, but then play more at the five position, which at some point with Nelly I was doing anyways.

There wouldn't have been a lot of rim protection, I'll tell you that. So it would have been trying to outscore the opponent that's for sure with me at the 5 but we would have made it work but offensively it would have definitely been fun especially when you were with Nash and the thinking was like we gotta get

LaFrance, we gotta get another big guy who can we get, who can we get that's dampier but now if you did that team over again it would just be like we just gotta get LaFrance. We got to get another big guy. Who can we get? Who can get that dampier? But now if you did that team over again, it would just be like, we just got to get shooters with Dirk and Nash. We just got to create space for those two guys. Who can we put in the corners and just let them cook? Well, you know,

that whole thing with Steve, of course, is super tough. And I think that's well documented with Mark that he years after it came out that that was a mistake to let Steve go. But in the game that developed after Steve was vital, you know, how he read the game, the pick and roll, he was able to play and get everybody involved. I mean, it developed into a guards game, if you want. There was no big guys anymore pounding the ball.

Yeah. The Gourmets Guards League and Steve would have been, or was fantastic for Phoenix afterwards. And so, yeah, he would have been great. And when I first started with Finley and Nash, I thought we were going to finish our careers together and we're going to, you know to hopefully win a title here in Dallas. And things unfortunately came a little different. But those first couple of years with Steve,

I think we played our first six years together, or my first six years. It was super fun on and off the court, for sure. Well, and there's a great what if you get hurt in that one playoffs where I think you might have had the most talented team. It was 0-3, right? And San Antonio ends up winning it. You look back at that San Antonio team, they'd peak Duncan. Duncan's the best he's ever been that year, but Manu and Tony were really young. They weren't, they weren't close to being who they were yet. Robinson was at the

telltale end of his career and Steven Jackson was there and Speedy Claxton like I don't even know if that was one of the best four Spurs teams but I always felt like that was a what if like if you stay healthy I do think you could have won the title that year I know we could have we could have fought through and I was I got hurt I think in game three

here or four I can't quite remember I think it was game three but the guys obviously we stole game one in San Antonio, which is still a great side story. Did you know we missed the first free throw that night and went 49 to 49 after? Oh, my God. Game one in San Antonio, we shot 49 out of 50 from the free throw line

to steal game one. But, yeah, I agree. We had a great team. I love Nick Van Exel was so underrated for us, and he was amazing. We had a fun squad. And then I was hoping to come back in action for game seven, even though my knee wasn't great. So I was hoping that we can win game six at home.

And that story is well documented. We were up 15 going into the fourth quarter. And Pop dusted off Steve Kerr. And obviously we had to trap Tim Duncan every time. So we even had Walt Williams on him at some point. We had just had to, we chunked the game up with smaller lineups. We would try to shoot threes. And so we had to trap Timmy all the

time. And just Steve came in, hadn't played much all season and just stepped in. I think he had like four threes or five threes in the fourth quarter and they ended up winning game six and I never got a chance to play again. That was like a sports movie. Steve Kerr coming off the bench. That was like a Disney movie. You also, the series before C-Web got hurt, and it was in a blowout. One of you guys were up 40. I can't remember which team.

C-Web got hurt, I want to say, in game one or game two, and it still took us to game seven. Yeah. They had Hedo, they still had Peja, and they just played a smaller lineup, I think, with Peja at four a lot. And they were still super tough to guard with Bibi being at the top of his game. So they were still a super tough lineup to guard.

And so it took us all the way to game seven at home, and we were able to win that. And even a series before, I don't know if you remember that, but we played able to win that. And even the series before, I don't know if you remember that, but we played the Trailblazers and we were up 3-0. Oh, yeah. Lost three straight

and ended up winning game seven at home, even though the Blazers were still up one with like two minutes to go in game seven. So that would have been the most epic collapse starting in round one. Then in round two, it took us game seven. So that would have been the most epic collapse starting in round one. Then in round two, it took us to seven. So that was an unbelievable

fun run for us. And unfortunately, we couldn't squeeze by San Antonio. But, you know, they had a great team there for whatever, 15 years plus. And Duncan was, that was the best he's ever been.

You have a little 10 year anniversary of when you laid the smack down on everybody. Alright. And that was it. You won the title. 10 years already. That's sad. Oh God. What do you, 10 years later, what's your first memory of the whole thing?

Just when we won it all. Just enjoying the group that we had. But you had to leave. You left. You were so emotional. You disappeared for 10 minutes. I had to regroup.

I had to regroup. I had some tears coming out. I think it's normal. I think when you try something for so long, you always fall short. You fall short. You try again. You work super hard. Try to be better. You try again. You work super hard, try to be better,

and you fail again. It's just there was so much stuff that was kept inside, all the pressure that I put on myself, the city, the franchise. I don't know. I just put so much stuff on myself. And then once we got to the top of the mountain,

I just broke down a little bit and I regrouped for like five to ten minutes. And then I came back out, was able to enjoy my teammates. But, I mean, what a run we had. And going into season, we had a good, fun veteran crew. But I don't think anybody had us going anywhere, really. And even going into the playoffs with Karan getting hurt, torn his patella, nobody really had us going anywhere.

And we were almost the underdog in every series. To come out on top was... I gotta say that felt good, man. It gave me a lot of confidence and I can do it. That was big for me and for us with the team and the

franchise. I remember you had the Portland series and Brandon Roy had that crazy game. And as I got Dallas, they're going to choke again. Then you get by them. There they go again. Yeah, there they go again. Another choke for Dallas. Nope. Get through them. Then you have the Lakers

and they're the two-time defending champs. You rip through them. But it's like that. I can't remember. I think it was them. Then OKC was the West finals. And that was this young, crazy OKC team that hadn't really had a taste of it yet. And you demolish them.

And that was like Durant. I I've talked to him about a podcast. He was like, you know, we, we never, never been at that level yet. And here's Dirk.

He's on a mission. It was like, I think those guys learned so much from that series. Just like how possessed you were. You rip through them. Then you're in. He's on a mission. It was like, I think those guys learned so much from that series, just like how possessed you were. You ripped through them. Then you're in the finals, and it's Miami Coronation. It's really an incredible run. Really, there was every

series, nobody believed in you, and you became the ultimate nobody believes in us team. It was a fun run. I almost felt like that Portland series got us together. I think that collapse you mentioned, we were up 20 in the fourth or something like that, and they us together. I think that collapse you mentioned, we were up 20 in the fourth or something like that. And they come back and beat us.

And instead of saying, yeah, this is just us, we kind of rallied together for game five and turned it around. And I said, you know what? They're not beating us on our own court. We're winning this game. We're winning this series. And it kind of brought the whole team together. And from then, actually actually we started to roll.

We went, I remember we won game six in Portland and we went straight down to LA for the next series. We didn't even go home and we're like, all right,

let's just try to roll and then if you remember game one in LA kind of was a, was really tough for us. Kobe was on fire. He must have had 40 or something. He was making every shot

and we played from behind all game long and I felt like for us. Kobe was on fire. He must have 40 or something. He was making every shot. We played from behind all game long. I felt like for us at the end, just hang in there and steal that game. Kobe, remember, had the shot from top of the key. It looked from my line, it was in. It just went a little long and it

bounced up and out. I think that really showed us we can play with the back-to-back champs and we can beat them on their home court. And honestly, from that game one in L.A., we never looked back. We rolled right through the playoffs and played at a really high level on both ends of the floor. Oh, man, what a fun run, of course.

Yeah, the way the NBA works now and the way the teams are stacked where it just seems kind of improbable that another team's going to do that, where you just basically have one all-star and you win the title. And, you know, I think a lot about that 11 Mavericks team with what's happened with the league the last few years.

And especially, you never want to leave Dallas. You never want to get traded. You never want to sign somewhere else. Cuban never wanted to trade you. You were, he was just like Dirk's Dallas and we're synonymous and this is how it's going to go. The only guy that's like this now,

unless Luca, it's so early. I mean, maybe, maybe Luke will be this 15 years around. I don't know. But the only guy who's like you now is Curry, where Curry got drafted by that team.

He's belonged to them and the franchise and the fans and the city and the area that whole time. And now he's 12 years in, and you see the stuff he's doing this year, and he's playing as well as he's ever played. But it feels weightier. It feels more important. It feels more important. It feels more significant because he stayed with that team the whole time.

And I don't know if I'm like an old school romantic, you know, back in my day, guys stayed with one team the whole time because the league, everybody just switches teams all the time now. But I still feel like the Curry thing is meaningful. And you're the best example of this, right? You had this connection to Dallas

that when you actually won the title, it meant something more than just the title because they had kind of lived through all the ebbs and flows that your career had. And I guess my question is like, once Curry goes, are we just going to lose that? Is that gone? Well, yeah.

It's just a different time a different league now um than it was back then uh loyalty meant a lot to me and of course but with the fans and the organization being so great to me from the beginning where i wasn't playing well right away my first two years and still people wanted me to succeed and helping me out. I think that meant a lot to me. And I thought to myself, if I get a chance to pay back some of their loyalty that I'm receiving, I'm more than happy to do it. And then Mark buying the team in my second year. And, you know, just us developing this relationship and friendship over the years

and he being my number one supporter on the court, but also plenty of mishaps happened off the floor. And he was always there to help me and guide me through it. So that's why I always wanted to stay loyal to this team. But I do understand, you know, times have changed. You know, I felt like for so long the teams had all the power. You know, they can trade you. You can play well.

It doesn't matter. The next day they ship you out of here. And then, you know, stuff has changed now. Now the agents have more power and the players. So, you know, the power shifted a little bit there somewhere along the way, which is probably a good thing for the players. Totally. But now it's just a little different.

It just doesn't happen much anymore that a guy stays for one team. But I feel like it's always on an individual basis, you know, what works for you. Is the city good for you, for your family? Is the team good? Are you playing enough? Do you make enough money?

You know, there's so many factors that factor in your decision to stay or go. I feel like everybody needs to do those decisions by themselves. But for me, it was always the right one to stay. I was part of this community at some point, doing all this community work. Fans were rallying around me and hoping for me to win. So I felt like I belonged here and nowhere else. Yeah, I mean, by the 2020s

model, right, you lose in 07 to the Warriors. Then you lose the next year. And then the whole social media 24-7, the way basketball's covered now, it's probably halfway through the 07-08 season it's like, will Dirk reunite with Nash

in Phoenix? And then it's people like me are on podcasts making fake trades. I don't know. It could be Marion and Stoudemire for Dirk. And then all of a sudden now you're on Phoenix and then that goes for two years. And then that's just kind of what happens now. Anytime somebody

has a little bit of adversity or a season doesn't go right, you just start wondering, are they going to stay? And I think Giannis signing with the Bucks was also a really good sign that maybe, as you say, it's an individual thing, depending on who the, who the person is, what their connection is with the city, with the organization, things like that. And then Luca it's super early, but he seems to me like another one who I could see potentially just staying for 20 years. I like I'm old school. I, the Curry thing is meaningful to me. I like that. He's been there the whole time. I like that clay went down right before the year and he's like, all right, throw more on my back. I'm going to carry us. I'm going to get us to the

playoffs. And I like that versus the whole, Hey, I'm switching my back. I'm going to carry us. I'm going to get us to the playoffs. And I like that versus the whole, hey, I'm switching teams again. I'm going here. But again, I'm old school. I'm probably an old fart. Yeah, I'm old school that way too. But it's just, you know, always times are changing. You have to adapt with times.

And it's just not the 90s and early 2000s anymore. I got to ask you about Jokic. I don't know how much you've seen of him. It's just not the 90s or the 2000s anymore. stuff, but the way he's can kind of control the game from the perimeter. I mean, he's a better passer than you're, you're probably a little bit better shooter than, than he is. Um, but he has spots on the court and I did a podcast a couple of weeks ago and we were talking about, he's got these basically anywhere in the perimeter. You had that spot, like top of the key. That was your area. That was like your neighborhood. This is where you operated from. And he can go there, but he can also pull people down low and post them up. And then it's like,

if you double them, don't double them. Cause he's just going to find somebody open right away. If you single him, he's got all these different moves. When did you, when did you get to the point as an offensive player when you felt like, all right, these are my areas. I have full command in these spots. And I know this part, and if somebody does this, I know exactly what to do.

They don't do this, I know exactly what to do. How many years does that take? So, you know, if you remember early on, it was basically just a shooter. I set my pick, and you remember early on, I was basically just a shooter. I set my pick and then, you know, when I popped, I was open. I shot the ball, I drove a little bit. But I wasn't, once teams started to switch, I basically just got out of the way and let Steve do his thing or whatever the case might be.

And then once Steve left, I was like, I got to develop a little more. I can't just, you know, force switches and then I can't do anything about it. I got to find ways to still score. Teams were kind of taking me away with their switching. And so that's when I started, when Avery took over, he forced me a little to do more,

to be more comfortable in the post-up area or a little bit off the block and off the hash marks. Get comfortable down there in these areas where you can turn around, you can shoot over little guys. in the post-up area or a little bit off the block and off the hash marks, get comfortable down there in these areas where you can turn around, you can shoot over little guys, get comfortable more in the free throw line area where once, usually when a big guy switched on and he rolls the small down,

the other big comes over and kicks them out and you end up in the same situation, you have another big on you. So that's when we developed that kind of that free throw line iso because there's no way for the little guy to run away and leap in on top of the key and back switch yeah that that was the idea to to punish the little guy and keep him on me not let him back switch and still be able to shoot over him uh from these from these spots. How long did that take? Like two, three years? I guess lots of practice in the summertime. I was working against smaller guys on switching.

So you just take your time and learn. And that's what Jokic is so good at. Try to control the game at your own pace. Even though I wasn't the fastest, he's not the fastest. But as you get older, I want to say the game slows down for you you know you know where everybody is and Avery was very focused on guys had to be on the same spots on the court so I always knew where my outlets were in case they were doubling and and so I just say yeah I just got more comfortable the more I did it hundreds of

thousands of times in practice over the summer I got more comfortable and then it's just like really I knew once I had a switch I can get one or two dribbles I could get them a little lower so I'll make it a little easier shot and all I had to do was lean back a little bit and shoot over them and so you know it wasn't really until 2007 that something threw something new at us. And that was really Nelly when we played Golden State in the first round and they upset us.

Of course, he had my game scouted. He knew I liked to go left. So what he was doing was they crowded me with smaller guys and when I put the ball left, he knew I would spin. So he would send the double team from my blind side and once I was winning my spin there was a double team guy

and that rattled me that rattled uh rattled our whole team and I wasn't as efficient and that's how I got upset so the next year I was like maybe I need to spin a little less maybe I gotta know I gotta see the floor at all times. Maybe I got to work on my passing. You just go through these stages where you learn and you work from your experience. When you watch Luka, well, actually, let's go backwards. Luka's a rookie, and it's so cool that you guys cross paths. You're at the tail end.

He's at the beginning, beginning. Did you know right away with him? Honestly, so I've only seen video of him. I don't watch much EuroLeague and stuff. So getting ready for that draft, I only see a few highlights from him. And I was like, oh, he looks big as a guard. I don't know if he can keep up with athleticism. He doesn't look

fastest. He drove by these guys easy in the EuroLeague, but I'm like the defenders here are sort of different. I didn't really quite know. I thought he could be a really good skilled player, a big guard. I didn't know that he was actually faster than

he looked and I didn't know how good of a passer and shooter he was. So he surprised me on multiple levels. And when he got here, I think he was playing something Euroball, and then he came for training camp. And, you know, before training camp, usually me, a couple weeks before, guys play five workout together. We lift.

We play five on five before camp even starts. And the first day, he plays a little bit. And I remember he was already, like, super cool and giving the passes. I'm kind of giving him a look. I was like, I got to test him a little bit, right? So there's at the big, I fouled him pretty hard one time. And then he's at Frito-Lan for games. So I'm going over there.

I'm like, I got to love something for this young guy. So I'm giving him a little trash talk. And I was like, there's no way you're making these two Fritos. And he just smiled at me. He didn't say anything. And he knocked those two Fritos in. So I think he gained respect right away by his composure, by how mature he was as a 19, 20-year-old,

how he sees the floor, how he reads the pick-and-roll situations. I mean, he's so far ahead of his time already and ahead of his age that it's actually really scary. So we were surprised the minute we saw this kid on the floor in Dallas. There's a bird magic quality to him where it's like he just, his pace is the pace the game's going to be played at. Which I thought when you were talking about

how he seemed a little slow, the weird thing is he's not slow. He's faster than you think he is, but it doesn't really matter because he's just getting to wherever he wants to go, which is exactly what Bird and Magic were like. They were always got to whatever spot they wanted. And it's like, you know,

you have somebody like LeBron does the same thing, but he's also like such an incredible athlete. You wouldn't call Luka an incredible athlete, but the hand-eye coordination and the ability, I guess Jokic has a little of this too, where it's just like, I'm going to end up seven feet over in that spot, getting the shot at, I don't know how I'm getting there, but it's going to happen. And I've been shocked by

just how easy it is for him when the whole team is revolved around his offense. His usage rate is higher than any season you had in Dallas, right? That team knows what's happening, but it doesn't really matter. He's still getting to where he wants. And I look at this Clippers series. Yeah, the Clippers wanted to play them. Yeah, they kind of kicked their ass a little bit last year,

but Luka's still the best player in the series. And, you know, at some point, if you're really great, earlier in your career, you're going to have the series where you just kick somebody's ass, right? It doesn't matter if the other team's better. I don't know if it's going to be this year, but I don't think that series is

a layup for the Clippers either. They could regret wanting the Mavs. Well, I hope so. I think with KP hopefully being healthy now for the Ronnie Smiths, a lot of games here this year, of course. And he got hurt last year in the bubble, if you remember the Clippers.

And before then, it was kind of like, you know, neck to neck. And then unfortunately, he got hurt and then the Clippers definitely took over. But we hope that it's going to be a tight, fun series. And the thing with Luka, everybody knows now his skill set, but he's so good with the ball, with the dribble,

that he can get to spots. And when people don't realize how fast he's switching directions, I don't think it's necessarily his end speed, his full speed is super fast, but the way he's super shifty, like he can push back super quick, accelerate again, push back. He's super quick at changing directions.

That's one thing. And then people don't realize how big and strong he is. He's a legit 6'8", 6'9". So once he has a defender that's a little smaller than him on the shoulder, he's going to get to the basket. He's just going to wail and wail and push him in. He's a legit 250. I don't even know how much he weighs these days,

but he's super, super strong legs, super shifty. And once he has a little bit of an edge on you, he's getting to his spots and then he's tall enough. He's got the step back game. He's got the floater game. He can pass with the best of them. So he's, he's, man, he's, he's a full package at 21, 22 years old. It's actually scary. So the most important thing you taught him was how to complain after every non-call. Was that like a month-long seminar that you just taught him

all the tricks? What happened? Because he complains about everything. That's a skill that all the Euros know for some reason. I don't know. To me, I'm not in a position for me to go up to him and say, hey, complain less because I like to believe that I complain a lot.

You did. As a compliment. I don't know. I was usually, I always say that I was off the floor, super quiet, super laid back. But during the game, it's just you're so emotional and you always want to let somebody have it. He's the same way.

He's a little too emotional on that part. So he just, you know, I think hopefully with experience, he'll get better with it and learn how, I think a big part of it is how to talk to the referees in a good way. I mean, I remember videos of MJ or Jason Kidd used to do that all the time when they walk over there and they put their hands over their mouth and then anything goes, right? But if you do the, you know, the demonstrative, you know, actions and yelling, I think that's really what, what the referees feel like showing them up and the league doesn't really love.

So I think once he gets a little more experience and a little less emotional as he gets more experience, I think he's going to be great. But right now, he's still very, very emotionally fired up. MJ was the greatest I've ever seen at that. Yeah. He would do the sneak over. He would do the mutter under his breath thing. And he also, he was so famous, the refs, you know, he, he, he was, they were in the palm

of his hand. He could basically say whatever. And they were, it was almost like they were disappointing them if they made the wrong call. It's a hard place to get to. I think Nash was good at it too, because when Nash got mad about a call, it was rare enough that the refs, I think, realized, like, oh, I might have screwed that one up. You know, because Nash was doing the Canadian. Oh, I'll just, I don't want to complain. I just want to be a good soldier. So when he got mad, he got mad. By the way, speaking of Nash, were you shocked when he took that job?

What was your reaction? I was a little shocked. He, of course, called me and told me about it before it came out. And I just didn't see him as really a head coach. I thought he's been doing some individual workouts with some guys. I know he's helped KD along the way and some other guys. And I thought that might be a path that he enjoys, really individual coaching. You know, you still have an influence. You still have an influence on the game.

But I never thought he would be a head coach. And so that surprised me. But, you know, he was out of the game, what, six years or something? And then, you know, the itch came back, and I'm happy for him. I mean, what better situation to step in with that team than to have. And I think he's enjoying the challenge, even though, I mean, the pressure is there. If they don't win it all this year, it's a bust. I mean, I've been on some of those teams, and that's a lot of pressure for a rookie coach.

But I think I went to the game the other day, of course, in Dallas to watch him, and I think the players have a lot of respect for him. I think he finds a way to talk to them always. He was always so encouraging and positive, even when he played. I just think he's a player's coach and players would love to play for him.

Yeah, I was surprised that the hiring took shit because I never thought he would do it, but I always thought if you ever wanted to, he was the all-time no-brainer coach, right? Because he had this calm demeanor. He was the leader of any team he was ever on. His offensive mind and how he broke stuff down was the highest possible level.

And any player who interacted with them, who was like a famous superstar player always clicked with them. Right. Even in golden state, like Kim and Durant, like really got along. And that's probably one of the reasons he got the job. But,

um, I, when you look back, I voted for him for third for coach of the year, because you look at this Brooklyn season and it's like, uh, it's like an HBO drama. They've had 17 things happen.

There's lots going on. Oh my God. I mean, the heart and trade Kyrie leaves twice. The Aldridge shows up and then has to retire in five games. They get Blake Griffin. They've had like 29 players. I've been impressed that I don't know.

They, there's hasn't been nearly as much drama as I feel like maybe there could have been. But I think that's partly because of him because he's even keeled. It's because of him. And I think they also gave him a great staff. I mean, if you look at D'Antoni and Jacques, it's been obviously a head coach in this league.

And then Ime is a great coach. So I think they put a good staff around him and he's learning. And I think he's enjoying the challenge. But I'm sure it can't be easy. I mean, I don't know some of the day-to-day stuff that's going on, but just stuff that you read, you're like, oh, my, this is a lot happening. But, yeah, he seems to know how to deal with it

and talk to these guys since he's been in the locker room for 16 years, 17 years himself, and he just knows how to relate to it and talk to these guys since he's been in the locker room for 16 years, 17 years himself and he just knows how to relate to most of the guys. Did he ask you to join him? He thought that it might be possible, maybe, or he asked if I would be interested.

It's just not. First of all, it would be really hard for me to leave Dallas for anything you know I just put so much sweat blood and tears in here in the Mavericks organization that it would always be super weird to do anything

for somebody else but also it's just not my time so it's just I just retired I'm enjoying life with the children I'm traveling so it's just I just retired I'm enjoying life with with the children I'm traveling so it's just I'm not ready honestly to grind and go back to the traveling and you know be gone for eight nine months straight and you know how hard coaches have to work so hard watch film all day long and stay at the gym all day I don't think I'm there

yet. Maybe when I'm five, six years, maybe I'm interested in something, but for now, I'm enjoying life. I don't see you doing it. I don't see you doing the day to day grind like that because even when you were playing, that was the part

that was... I remember we talked about this on this podcast a million years ago about you love the games, but it was the part that was, I remember we talked about this on this podcast a million years ago about like, you love the games, but it was the practice, the day-to-day, the conditioning, that just putting in the 365 days a year to be ready to play,

that that's what kind of wears you down after a while, right? At the end, for sure. That's the one thing that's tough. But, you know, see what Timmy Duncan did last year or the year before, I would have never thought that he would be the head coach or a coach. He tried it out for a year, ended up not loving it, I guess, because he's not doing it anymore.

I didn't talk to him about it. But, you know, maybe that's in my future and then try and see if I like it. But, you know, honestly, I can see myself more on the management side here or helping where I can. But, you know, as of now, there haven't really been lots of discussions on what's next

for me. I kind of told him I need some time away from the sport and I need to enjoy the family first and foremost. I could see you buying like a Division II German soccer team or something wacky like that. I think you go sideways. Yeah, there's always that possibility,

which is, of course, fun. Honestly, since I've been out of the game, I've been doing some fun stuff and learning more about the business and investments. That's super cool because for 20, 21 years, I've been basically down one road and that's all basketball. And now I've been learning new stuff.

And I'm really enjoying that right now. So we'll see what's next in my life. But something wacky could definitely come up. What's the state of German basketball right now? Where are we? How are we looking? Schroeder? Schroeder's involved, right? Who else do we have? It should be pretty good.

We have Schroeder, we have Tice, who's now in Chicago. We have Clevo, of course, who's here in Dallas and a few others. So we have a very good national team and we have to qualify for the Olympics this summer,

which will be really hard. And then the following year in 2022, we have the European championship in our home country. It's going to be in Cologne and Berlin. Oh, wow. So it's, that's going to be a,

it's going to be fun. A couple of challenges for, for the German national team coming up the next few years but I think we're talented and we're deep and hopefully

they can they can have a good run at most of these tournaments but there's been no no sons of the Dirk generation we haven't had that that forward

who's just like basically doing an imitation of you does that person exist yet? I think a few of them are in the works. They're in the lab? Yeah. Obviously, there is great talent.

And so we're just hoping from that one generation that's under now, under 20, that some of those guys will make it all the way to the top. So we'll see what the way to the top. So we'll see what happens there in the future. Tell me, how crazy is Cuban now that he's in his 60s? Is he just, is he

more of a character than he was 20 years ago? Is he settled down? Where is he on the character scale right now? Well, honestly, from where he started, he started at a 300. So there was only a way down. I mean, when he first bought the team, he didn't have kids.

He wasn't married at the time. So he was at every practice. He was on every flight. He was at every game. I mean, he was super, super hands-on, super involved. We played shooting games with him after practices. I played one-on-one with him. And from that, once he started a family,

he's definitely slowed it down. He doesn't travel as much anymore. But when he goes to the games, he's still as fired up as ever. If I still watch him on the sideline, he's only one, two, three seconds. That will never change. The minute the game starts to the end, I just think he's so fired up,

but he's not around as much as he used to be. It feels like Ballmer has stolen his thunder a little bit as the craziest sideline owner. I just feel like Balmer's taking it up a notch. And Cuban kind of let it go. He didn't care. He gave it to him. Yeah, there was some good stuff going on on the sidelines

for sure for years. When Cuban ran on the court during the bench-clearing brawl, I think that was Pete Cuban. I think that was his top moment. Remember that? His first couple years when he owned the team, when there was almost a fight and Cuban ran on the court to break it up? You don't

remember that? I think he got fined. He probably had his Cuban with the money sign shirt on. Do you remember that? Oh my God. He gave himself a shooting shirt. It's a Cuban with the money sign. The number was the money sign shirt on. Do you remember that? Oh my God. He gave himself a shooting shirt. It's a Cuban with the money sign. The number was the money sign. I actually,

I think he actually doesn't get enough credit for how impactful he was compared to the old guard of owners when he took over, right? The stuff he, and there was like a lot of resentment the first two years. People were like,

wait, he's, he's fixed in the locker room? What the fuck is this? Spent a million dollars in the locker room? Is this guy insane? And now everybody does shit like that. Having a really nice private plane to fly the teams around. He just kind of figured

it out really early that this was a competitive advantage for him. And now everybody does what he did. For sure. He was ahead of his time when he got in. He couldn't believe some of the hotels were staying at. What do you mean there's no food after games? You guys have to recuperate right after and get the nutrition you needed. So we started to have food before and after the games. He bought us a new airplane, we started staying in nice hotels, he bought us a new or built a new arena and so he definitely turned the Mavericks around from the 90s where

it was a tough, tough, tough decade for a Mavs fan and then when he came, he just he made it a franchise to be again where guys wanted to come and play for. He put us back on the map. And, you know, he just hit the jackpot a few years before. So money didn't really matter that much to him. So it was all out. We want a good team. We want to win.

And he didn't care that much about spending money. So that was unbelievable time back then when was the last time you touched the basketball it's been a long time sometimes with the kids a little bit i'll mess around the backyard but for me actually taking a ball and doing something so actually a year ago i was filming a commercial in germany for one of my sponsors and they said i come in the gym and I knew I had to do maybe a little bit of shooting or something. I come in the gym

there's five young guys sitting there like 17, 18, they're rubbing their hands I was like what's going on here? And they're like we want you to play a little bit three on three. And I was like what? I'm about 40 pounds overweight my feet are the size of a coconut.

I was like, there's just no chance I can play. So that was the only time I had to touch the ball and I shot it a little bit against the guys, but there was just no way that I could still play. I mean, my

ankle is actually not great at all. So I have some problems here and there. I was going to ask you about that because it seemed like the last two years, it seemed like basically from waist down just went on you. Like you basically lost your tires. Well, basically, the knees are fine. One ankle is fine. It was really just that one ankle that went. It was the one that I uh went it was the one that i always jumped off for the one leg or the left ankle it was always the one that i happened to

roll probably about 50 times in my career and then over time so just you know it got worse and worse and some of the doctors kept saying i can't believe you're playing on this ankle and i'm like i don't really have that many problems so i I just kept going. And then my last two years, they kind of showed up, though. I didn't really have much movement in the ankle anymore. I couldn't switch directions much anymore. And then we tried that one surgery. We took some bone spurs out before the last year, and that made it all worse. Now then I had all this arthritis coming up.

And so the last two years were really tough. In hindsight, I'm not sure I would do that again. But, you know, if you're in the thick of things and you're enjoying it and you're still loving the grind, you give it all you got.

But in hindsight, probably was the smartest thing to do. Yeah, like Duncan, the last two years was basically on one leg, like his knee was gone. Bert, the last two years had no on one leg, like his knee was gone. Bert the last two years had no back. And I was like, we'd be an all-star game.

And for the, you know, at the practice, it's nothing. You throw a couple of half-court shots up, right? And he would always put his knee brace on. I was like, Timmy, for that, you're putting your knee brace on? Come on, we're doing nothing. He's like, yeah, man, it's just bone on bone. And it's just really bad. So, yeah, once, I mean, one thing, one joint is acting up,

it's tough to still try to play at the highest level, of course. Well, you think about, you were seven feet. Duncan was, I think, seven feet. Like, KG, also seven feet. Duncan was, I think, seven feet. Like, KG, also seven feet. At some point, a seven-foot body running up and down a basketball court for 26 years, 27 years. Like, you know, you figure you have so many back and forths in you. And then what happens?

It's going to be a knee. It's going to be an ankle. It's going to be something. That's why I think the stuff LeBron, when you actually look at the number of games and minutes he's played, it's almost inconceivable. He's at 60,000 minutes now

for playoffs in regular season. It's basically him and Kareem, and that's it. And I don't know how much longer this can go, but he seems like he's 90% what he used to be. Yeah. I mean, he's 90% what he used to be. Yeah. I mean, he's still super athletic and super fast. I mean, obviously, Kareem at the end wasn't the fastest anymore.

True. But what LeBron's doing is unbelievable. So, yeah, I don't know. I mean, you hear all, or you read these stories, how much time and money he invests in his body, and this is probably what helps him now. If he looks at his diet and the training

and the stretching and all that, it's obviously what still keeps him at the highest level. But it's still, I mean, I tried all that starting when I was 30. And it's just impossible what he's doing. What do you wish you could have gone back and told like 22-year-old Dirk about conditioning, dieting, and all that stuff? Like how much of that were you not doing?

Well, honestly, we didn't know that much about it when I first got in the league. You know, we were one of the first teams that hired a nutritionist and that was maybe my second or third year in the league. Honestly, you know this. We had guys eating chicken fingers and burgers and fries. Nick Van Exel always ate a burger before every game. It's just we didn't know now everybody's vegan and gluten-free and all this and that. We learned all this later. I mean, we lifted it a little bit, but we didn't know much about nutrition, so we ate whatever. And so I learned more about it later in my life.

I changed my diet when I was about 27, 28. When you're just in your prime and you're like the next summer, you're like, oh, I'm feeling a little tweaks. Maybe I should try something. And then that's when I cut out sugar and the red meat and obviously all the desserts and stuff and all cut out drinking during the season. And so that's where we learned really more about it. So probably mid-2000s is when I changed some of my habits.

And before, just anything, you know, when you're 20, anything goes, you know. So I learned more. So in the back, I would say start with that earlier because it does make a huge difference in how you feel and how you recover after games. So I would say start dieting and nutrition. Start that way early. You can't start that early enough. Plus, they had to trade Nash so you stopped going out with them.

I mean, that was probably the best thing that happened to you, right? Probably. That's the reason. He kept dragging me out. How old is your oldest kid now? She's seven and a half, almost eight. So you're in the sports parent zone now.

Yeah. The boys are a little younger, but they play a little... They're six and four and a half, so they play a little tennis and a little play a little, they're, uh, they're six and four and a half. So they play a little tennis and a little soccer at school. Um, so yeah, we're, but we're not like every other day driving through all these tournaments. We're not, we're not there yet, but we're, we're, we're getting there. We're picking them up and dropping them off at tennis and such and such and gymnastics and all sorts of things. So we're, we're, we're getting there

with where it's definitely busy. Tennis, interesting. You know, tennis was the first sport that I played. I remember. A great sport for a hand eye. It's a great sport for footwork. And so I basically played it my entire life. And it's a sport that you can learn at a young age

and you can play until you're 70 years old. My dad, a few years ago, still played doubles. So it's a sport you can play over your entire life. And it did so much for my hand-eye and the footwork. So that was a no-brainer to me. I play all the time still now if my ankle allows. And then we have the kids taking lessons next to us on the court. So it's perfect.

Well, you were the sons of the Boris Becker generation. And Steffi Graf. And Steffi Graf. Those two were like German heroes. They were when Becker won. Becker won Wimbledon when he was like barely 16, I remember. 16. It was kind of one of the most underrated sports moments of the 80s.

He was literally 16 years old. He won Wimbledon, and nobody could believe it. I'll never forget. He beat Kevin Curran, the South African guy in the final. There was a tennis boom after these two guys, and my parents joined a recreational club thing. They weren't very good, but on the weekends, we would just go there and hang out, grill with the friends. Well, the kids were on the court basically all 10 hours.

We'd be hitting all day. And the kids were, the parents were doing their barbecues and hanging out. And we were basically on the tennis court. So that was my first sport. And I definitely thought if I have kids and they want to do sports, the tennis would be a great thing to start off with. So that's what we did. Becker was, they always talk about like,

what would happen if so-and-so unbelievable athlete played tennis, right? Like what would happen if Iverson played tennis? Becker was an unbelievable athlete. I still feel like he's the best athlete I've ever seen on a tennis court. He could do absolutely everything. It felt like nobody could lob it over his head. I really felt like he was the best athlete I've ever seen on a tennis court. He could do absolutely everything. It felt like nobody could lob it over his head. I really felt like he was like a one-on-one for me. He was great.

You know how he always jumped around and got those crazy jumps. Ridiculous. He'd up after the game. So, man, he was a man. I was able to meet him a couple times. And I told him I was a huge fan when I grew up. Last question. Brooklyn-Dallas finals.

What do you do? I mean, obviously you root for Dallas, but Nash is like your guy. What do you do? I told Nash the other day when I saw him here, when they were here, I said, Hey, I love you like a brother, but, you know, my Mavs blood is in me and I bleed blue.

So I hope you have a great game and I hope your team plays well, but the W has to stay in Dallas and that's what happened. All right. I'm sure he understood that. Yeah, he's fine with that. Who's your favorite player to watch now, just out of curiosity? Out of all the dudes in the league. You can't say a Mav.

Yeah, of course. I love watching Luka play. But outside of the Mavs, I don't watch as much as I used to. But Steph was one of my favorites, of course. You brought him up earlier. I remember when I was still watching every night when I played, there were playoff runs when they have their deep runs, and I'd be sitting at the TV screaming,

shoot, when he was on fire, right? He was unconscious, and he would dribble across half court. I'd be yelling at the TV for him to shoot the ball. He's just so fun to watch. Him and Klay, love Klay. Scoring with 60 on five dribbles or something insane. Those two as a combo were as fun to watch

as it gets for sure for me as a shooter and how much appreciation I have for those two for sure. Well, even though it would have been more fun to watch you in this era, I do feel like it probably would have changed how you played a little bit. So in a weird way, you ended up in the right era because nowadays I do think you would have had to percentage wise.

They just would have laid it out to you. You got to take 10 threes like you make four out of 10. It's better for us. Yeah. So they would have taken my mid range away from me a little bit. I think that's where I was most comfortable at, 15 to 16 feet, the turnarounds. Yeah, some of that is just not efficient enough anymore for the game these days, which was a little sad.

I mean, it's either threes or layups. I think some of the fun is going away of that. Yeah. You know, that's the way the game is going. I understand everything's about stats, and three obviously counts more than a two. I get all that, but I do miss the old school, the nice pull-ups, the turnarounds,

and some of that is unfortunately getting lost a little bit now. Well, that team that you won a title with would now no longer make sense in the NBA, right? Where the style of play, just having multiple defenders out there at the expense of offense and just all the stuff that was going on. I just, Terry is somebody that I feel like

in this day and age would have loved it, right? He would have taken 15 threes a game. But other than that, it was a pretty unconventional team and it feels like it happened 20 years ago. You know, I always say, Jet and myself, Terry, we were so bad defensively, and JJ, that we needed three other defenders out there

to cover all the holes. You know, JK was unbelievable, even at his older age on defense. Sean Merritt plugged numerous holes and so did, obviously, Tyce Chandler and Haywood and all the big guys that protected us that when we won the championship. So I felt like we needed to keep the scoring up and the other guys were plugging all the holes that we created. So that was fun.

Well, it's good to see you. You look exactly the same. Thank you. Good luck with your Luka Dallas run. Say hi to cubes for us. And, uh, and it was a pleasure to talk to you as always. All right. That's it for the podcast. Don't forget about the rewatchables. Good fellas. That is up. It's been up for the last 24 hours. And, uh, speaking of the rewatchables, we did midnight run a few years ago. You can find it on the Spotify archives, the rewatchables.

That's where 185 of the movies, everything is only on Spotify, but you can find Midnight Run on there. Just search for Midnight Run and it'll pop up. And a lot of love for Charles Grodin in that one. And he passed away today. Love Charles Grodin. Midnight Run's one of my favorite movies ever.

And I think that's probably the best Charles Grodin movie. But he was in a lot of good stuff. He was one of a kind. And it was sad to hear that news today. So RIP Charles Grodin. Thanks for all the laughs. Thanks for everything you did. I will see you on this feed on Thursday.

Enjoy the basketball. Enjoy Warriors, Lakers. See you on Thursday.