The Bill Simmons Podcast - Ten Free Agency Questions on the Lavish Bulls, Comatose Celts, Reheated Heat, and More With Kevin O’Connor

Episode Date: August 4, 2021

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Kevin O’Connor to discuss 10 lingering questions from free agency including if they liked what the Bulls have done, the Lakers' barrage of signings, their five favorite and least favorite signings so far (1:11), the Celtics as a destination for Bradley Beal, the state of the Pelicans, if the Warriors are the second-best team in the West, and more (41:41). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Kevin O’Connor Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Fantasy football is back, and you don't want your team to suck. My favorite fantasy football punishment I've ever heard is the last place guy had to spend 24 hours in a waffle house, and every waffle he ate was one hour off of his count. I want numbers. How many did he end up eating? 12 waffles in 12 hours. I'm Danny Heifetz. I'm Danny Kelly.

And I'm Craig Horlbeck. We host the Ringer Fantasy Football Show on the Ringer Podcast Network. To avoid eating 12 waffles in a waffle house, follow the Ringer Fantasy Football Show on the Ringer Podcast Network. To avoid eating 12 waffles in a Waffle House, follow the Ringer Fantasy Football Show on Spotify. It's the Bill Simmons Podcast presented by FanDuel. Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest rated sportsbook is the best place to bet it all. We've been doing pretty well on million dollar picks this year.

I love the first month of the season because you have to go into the season thinking, I think Pittsburgh's going to be good. I think the Chargers are going to be good. I think Seattle's going to be good. And then trying to back what you think in those first few weeks and then zag the other way if you were wrong. You could bet on new and fun markets on FanDuel, like to catch a pass, same game parlays, highest scoring game across the Sunday slate, Offensive TDs in the next drive.

They have so much stuff, it's crazy. The app is safe and secure and easy to use. And when you win, you'll get paid instantly. Plus, look out for FanDuel Squares this season.

Here's what you have to do. Visit FanDuel.com slash BS to download America's number one sportsbook. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. You must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling

problem called Win 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this, it's game day, all the gang's here. You're tailgating outside the stadium. It's a great time for beer. Or how about when you're standing at the grill and the smell of sizzling burgers is in the air? Moments like that. Or when you want a light beer that tastes like beer, that's delicious. You don't want to load up on those heavier beers and then you only have two of them. Then you feel tired. Your stomach feels full. Miller Lite, it's your

friend. It just accompanies whatever else you're doing. You're super happy with it. Opening an ice cold Miller Lite can signal the beginning of Miller time. Miller Lite is the light beer with all the great beer tastes we like. 90 calories per 355 mil can. So why not grab some Miller Lites today? Your game time tastes like Miller time.

Must be legal drinking age. We're also right here by TheRinger.com as well as The Ringer Podcast Network. You can find Kevin O'Connor on The Mismatch. You can find him on The Void, our little YouTube series we do on The Ringer feed, and you can find him right here in a second.

We're doing our top 10 biggest questions coming out of the first couple days of free agency. That's all. Thanks. First, our friends from pearl jam All right, KOC is here. He was here Thursday night. We got like four hours of pods out of you, and now you're back. This is your second pod today, plus you wrote something. Fortunately, you just did a massive amount of drugs.

You look great. You're all fired up. You're peaking at the right time. This is actually my clone, Bill. Yeah. Oh, this is the clone. Interesting. I wanted to do with clone KFC.

Lots of stuff happened. I got to say, not the craziest free agency we've had. There's been movement. Things have happened. But as far as quote unquote crazy free agency goes, I don't feel like we really got there with this one. There was some things though. So I have 10 questions. I don't feel like we really got there with this one. There were some things, though. I have 10 questions. I only told you two of them.

I wanted to go through them. 10 lingering questions I have after 48 hours of free agency. The first one is the Bulls. The Bulls, they get Lonzo, which I liked. I thought they got Lonzo on a good deal. I can't believe they didn't give up any real assets

for him. They gave up Sadoransky and Temple and not even a first pick. Well, it was like a second rounder. And then today they go all in to get DeMar DeRozan, a guy who we didn't know what his market was. It ends up being $85 million for three years. They have to send Thad Young, Al Aminu, and a future first all the way back to the Spurs so they can overpay DeMar DeRozan. You like this more than I did. I did not like this move. I thought it was a huge overpay.

I don't understand who they were bidding against. I don't understand why you want him and Zach Levine on the same team, but you like it more than I did. What did you like about it? I like it. I like it more than you do in the sense, what other choice do you have to try and build a competitive playoff roster around Zach Levine? Because if you do nothing, he's going to walk next year or you're in a position where you just have to trade him. And I know you're not the biggest Zach Levine fan, but there's no doubt about his abilities as a 27 point per game score,

still in his mid twenties, still getting better every year, his abilities as a 27 point per game scorer still in his mid-20s still getting better every year showed progress as a playmaker and defender last year so with the bulls you're not going to get like a lot of stops on defense their defense is going to stink this year but their offense is going to be really really good bill it's going to be a really good offense and i feel like the marta rosen's progress and development that happened in san antonio kind of flew under the radar because it was the Spurs and they were past their 20-year run. Duncan's gone and everything. But DeRozan became a really good passer. He's going to be the point guard of this

team. He's going to be the point guard in the half court. One of the league's most efficient isolation scorers, a very good pick and roll playmaker and score i think it just balances out their offense and helps alleviate some of the shot creation off levine and i think you're also going to see some three guard lineups billy donovan did it in okc with chris paul schroeder and gildas alexander he's going to do it again here in chicago with ball de rosen and levine and they're going to score a heck of a lot of points and at least compete for a top six spot in the playoffs even though they're not a contender I think they have the widest range of any East team. Yeah, I could see them in the right scenario with a couple injuries to other teams getting to the

three seed. I could also see them barely getting into the play-in tournament and maybe even being an 11 seed. I think it's a nine seed swing for them. But you mentioned Levine. They had, you know, they could have extended Levine and given him a pretty big extension, which I, you know, they had the leverage of being able to jump it by a year. And I'm a bigger fan than I was a year ago with him. I don't think he's a top 12 guy. I don't think he's a top 15 guy. I do think he could be one of the guys on a really good team, but I just wonder, so for the people listening, right now, their starting five would be Lonzo, DeRozan, Levine, Patrick Williams, who I think we both like,

and Vucevic. And Patrick Williams is in the classic, I'm only shooting six times a game, I'm guarding the other team's best guy role. Lonzo, really fun to play with, doesn't need the ball all the time. As you said, they can use the rows in the half court. Coming off the bench, it's basically Kobe White and Alex Caruso right now. We don't know what's going to happen with Markkinen. So they have guard depth.

They don't really have any size. They don't really have that rebounding slash rim protector guy. And it still seems like there's some work left. And I guess it would be the marketing would be the gateway to improving that.

But I also don't know who the teams are because everybody's running out of cap space. But I really like the Lonzo move. I left Thad Young on this team last year. And I do wonder, are they just better off keeping their assets, keeping I really like the Lonzo move. I left that young on this team last year. And I do wonder, like, are they just better off keeping their assets,

keeping that pick, kind of seeing what they have with that young and making the move down the road versus going all in right away. I mean, I understand it. Like the slow play could have made sense. I think if you had Levine signed long-term, maybe you would have done that. But this bulls team has stunk for four or five years now.

And I still look at their team and they're still young. Like Levine is young. They add Lonzo Ball, who's still young. Patrick Williams is going to only be 20 years old this season. It's not like they're in a position where they don't have young guys around their best player. They have a lot of good young players. In fact, they just also have some good veterans. And I think, I mean, with the Bullss they're in an interesting spot because like you said i

agree with you their range is wide like up to a three seed and if maybe their defense is so bad and if their offense is underwhelming like it was by the way with vuch and levine their offense was not great it wasn't firing off all cylinders like people expected when they first acquired him if it underwhelms yeah they could be a playing team or just on the playing bubble but i still look at the bulls and i view this as kind of a bet on patrick williams because they're going to be in a position where they're going to be in the playoff fun in the east and if patrick williams continues ascending every single year of his career and becomes a six foot seven versatile shot creator who could defend multiple positions,

suddenly you look, you insert that into the bowls and it changes the way you're viewing them in two or three years. So like I'm looking at what they're doing today as maybe a preview of how they want to build a couple of years from now. I love that guy. He's really good. I like how many minutes he played last year

for what his age was and the defensive assignments he had. I'm all in on that guy. The big thing for me with them, what is Levine going to get out of this Olympic experience? And is he going to have the bump that we've seen some guys have when these guys that are kind of a level below

where they end up a year later after they've been on the Olympics, they always seem to have like the career year just from being around the other guys, picking up some work ethic stuff, the confidence of just kind of belonging. I don't know how much Team USA you watched. As you know, I'm an international basketball junkie. Levine's been really important to this team. I think the shocking things for me about Team USA is Levine's been really important to this team I think the shocking things for me about Team USA is Levine being used kind of sometimes as a defensive stopper oh yeah um and a two-way guy that's one shocker and two is kind of how ill-equipped Dame is for some of these international basketball matchups they couldn't keep him on the floor yesterday against Spain and they when they

really had to make their run a couple times in the first half and the second half, Dame wasn't on the floor. And it was Holiday was the key guy for them. And they were using Levine and Booker, Levine or Booker with Tatum and Durant, like three of those four and then a big. And Dame was kind of the odd man out, which I thought was fascinating. I think Australia is a better matchup for him. But did you notice that? Or have you been watching this? I mean, Dame's like the only guy who isn't consistently locking in, getting a lot of stops on the defensive end.

Like you said, even Levine is playing some of the best defensive his entire life. They're relying on him for defense, which I couldn't believe. Dame, they kind of don't know what to do with because he's not an international point guard. He's not a guy who makes everyone else better he's kind of a clear out create space for me but that's not international basketball and then defensively everyone's picking on him but doesn't this speak to you know the potential of a guy like exactly continuing to get better i agree we've seen him reach 27 points per game on offense we've seen him put in more effort on defense like

you're not going to have him be a stopper every night throughout the entire season. But what if he can become a guy who's above average, sometimes really good on defense? The way the Bulls roster looks, I think, will change dramatically with DeMar DeRozan and Lonzo Ball in that backcourt. I think they're going to be exciting offensively. They're going to score a lot. And if maybe add a Justice Winslow, some type of versatile wing

from the free agent market. Justice Winslow? There's not a lot out there, Phil. Justice Winslow? Jesus. I'm just pulling out another young-ish name. I think we agree on the same thought process. My question is, was DeRozan the

right guy? I think so. I at the right time of his career? Is it a little too late for him? I think if you're a Chicago fan... He's getting better still, Bill, for real. He's still getting better as a playmaker. Well, and as we talked about with Rosillo last week, long twos are back. Yeah, they are.

Two-pointers. And he's efficient doing it, too. He's one of the few you can be very happy with shooting over half of his shots from mid-range. The funniest thing to me is the Bulls fans are just in disbelief that their team actually spent money. Yeah. All of them. It's a big difference from

Garpax. Yeah, it's like you're dating a girl or you're married to somebody and they're always going to whatever the crap grocery store is near you. And then one day they come home with Whole Foods. You're like, whoa, Whole Foods. You're feeling it today. Trader Joe's. Wow. Trader Joe's. Alkaline water. How much is that gallon?

Fancy cold brew coffee bottles. I can't believe it. This is great. So I was excited about that. Just before we go on the bowls, I really like the Lonzo deal for them, especially when you saw some of the money that and just him basically in 20 million years, 23 years old. We talked about him last week with Rossello. He's a legitimately above average three-point shooter now. He was taking eight a game last year. He's 38%. I think he's really fun to play with. I think he's a better defensive player than I think people realize.

I just thought to get him for less than 25 million a year was a steal in my opinion i'm with you on lonzo you're getting a defensive playmaker so good off the ball guy who moves it offensively the ball never sticks in his hands which is fun to play with yeah i mean like who wouldn't want to play with a guy like that whether you're playing pickup or in the nba like it's perfect next to two guys who really gonna handle the ball under rosen and levine and then caruso too i mean adding him really good wing defender better on ball than lonzo equally potent off the ball i mean those guys like they're going to have the ability to play some really fun small lineups in chicago i'm excited to see what they do it's a great point about the donovan like the three-guard lineups

and having success with that. Because you think Lonzo to Rosen, Levine, Caruso, and Kobe White, whatever they get out of him, whether he's just an energy scorer off the bench or whether he can even stay on the court, they will have a lot of flexibility. And the East, the ability to go with smaller lineups, I think is really going to help them. We saw it work with Atlanta last year to some degree. I'm rooting for Lonzo.

I talked about it with Jackie on Sunday. I just feel like if you look at the first four years of his career, it's about as messed up as you get without a major injury. Just a new situation every year. He was never on the right team. He never had the right coach. Just was never in the right situation. So maybe this is it. All right. He got better, Bill. He got better. He did. He got better. He never had the right coach. Just was never in the right situation. So maybe this is it.

All right. He got better, Bill. He got better. He got better and he worked on his weaknesses. Question number two. What in the living hell is this Lakers team? What is this? Do I like it?

Do I not like it? It's like watching a 2K team or something. Right now, here's their starting lineup. I'm guessing Lebron carmelo anthony davis westbrook and malik mock is a potential starting lineup for them off the bench kendrick dunn orton tucker ellington ariza baysmore and dwight howard what the fuck is going on koc what is this yeah it's uh it's definitely a 2k team it's funny seeing all these uh mid 30 year old players all on the same team.

Maybe LeBron is the GM there. Who knows with some of the decisions they've made. But I love what the Lakers are doing. We'll talk about our favorite signings. Horton Tucker is one of my favorite signings because he's like the one young piece on their roster. Now with Kendrick Nunn as well and Malik Monk, they're signing young guys.

3 for 32 for Horton Tucker, which was lower than I think we expected. That's a pretty good deal. I mean, I'd be happy about that as a Lakers fan. So I think, you know, this team, it's all about still like what we talked about in the part one of last week's pod, Russell Westbrook, how he adapts, how he evolves with this roster, but with everything they've done since then to surround Westbrook and LeBron and AD with some good shooters, you know, Ariza, Carmelo, Ellington, as well as some young guys, the Lakers roster just suddenly feels perfectly balanced. When I look at it, like the age, I'm not worried about, this is a well-balanced team that can play a whole bunch of different

ways, big or small 80 at the five. I mean, whatever way you want to throw it out there, they can do it. All right. Well, I hate the Lakers. So allow me to pick this apart just for sport. I'm not even necessarily saying I believe this. Let's go in order. Kent Bazemore as an 11th man, I guess he's fine. We saw what happened with the Warriors when they actually had to rely on him

in a couple of playing games. He might be an 11th man, to be fair. He's an 11th man. Ariza was done two years ago. Maybe three. Apologies to Ariza. I can't remember if it was two years ago or three years ago when you stopped being a relevant player, but you're not a relevant

player anymore. Sorry. Wayne Ellington has been on what? Eight teams? How many teams has he bounced around on where every time it's like, oh, Wayne Ellington three-point shooting and it's like, name your, Wayne Ellington, three-point shooting. And it's like, name your greatest Wayne Ellington playoff moments because I can't think of one of them. So cross him off. I've crossed off three in a row.

Horton Tucker lit up a couple of preseason games. Congrats to him. We've never actually seen him in a meaningful moment ever. Kendrick Nunn, during the Miami finals run, was basically relegated to obscurity on the side now he granted uh he had had an injury stuff like that last year i think he had covid for a little bit like he never was able to find his stride but miami couldn't wait to get off him they let him go and he basically signed a one-year bet on my subcontract i go one at a time on those. I'm not doing backflips. Now, Monk, that one hurts. That hurts? Of all of them,

Monk hurts the most. He was coming on last year on Charlotte, like a freight train as an impact score off the bench. A really, really elite off the bench. Jordan Clarkson kind of potential.

And then he got hurt. And it was a weird team in general. They had a lot of guards. Lomelo broke his wrist. And that team never found a stride again. But there were a couple of weeks there when it looked like the guy from college. I've never given up on Malik Monk.

And now I am in a really weird situation of, do I root for him to do well in the Lakers so I can do the, I told you so thing? Remember, I own property on the beachfront of Monk Island. So do I root for him to do well in the Lakers? Or is this now an I can't lose situation for me where if he sucks, then at least he sucks in the Lakers. Then you'll be like, well, I was wrong, but at least he screwed up the Lakers. I feel like I can't lose. I love this spot for him, though, and it really makes me mad. I thought that was the best of their signings.

Are you surprised he didn't have a bigger market? I mean, not a lot of money out there, but I'm a little bit surprised. Well, I can think of one team that could have used him, a team I root for. Yeah, the Boston Celtics. Yeah. What team could have used instant scoring off the bench? I thought sixers too could have used them nicks you know nicks i thought for sure yeah when you think of wes's kentucky connections and the leon west thing i just thought i just assumed he was

going to the next for like three for 30 he had a tweet he tweeted bet on yourself yeah so it makes me wonder if he passed up bigger money just to try to i think there's a possibility there because maybe like think of all the reasons we talked about why buddy healed would have been awesome on the lakers yeah if malik monk is able to shoot threes as well as he did last season and not as poorly as he did the first couple of years in the nba i mean like everything applies to monk with how they could utilize him off the ball like just to a little bit of a lesser expense extent he's a smaller player not as big as buddy healed but they can run him off screens handoffs have him run an occasional pick and roll

this this really is a bet on yourself situation from a leak monk to get all those reps that everybody for like 24 hours thought was going to be going to Buddy Hield. He has fan favorite potential for them. A couple things with their weird roster. By the way, Carmelo is another one that I can't imagine he has much left at this point. We know he can't defend anybody. There's some

real defensive issues with this team. Caruso was their best perimeter defender of any guard they had. LeBron occasionally plays defense. He's very good on defense. Well, regular season he doesn't like he does in the playoffs. I think he picks his spots regularly.

He can turn up. Davis, elite. Westbrook, pretty bad. Takes too many risks. Loses focus. Malik Mok, that's not why you have him for D. Kendrick

Dunn, he can actually be a little frisky, but you go on down the line, I do think defense is somebody, the right kind of guard feels like could have a 55-point game against this team. The big thing that jumps out to me is that AD is actually going to play the fire for this team this year, right? That seems like part of the bet.

I mean, now that was reported about like a month ago that 80 is going to play more five LeBron, more four. And if that's the case, like the roster makes way more sense. If you're seeing a lot of Gasol and 80, a lot of Dwight with 80, I'm not quite as high on it, but 80 at the five, like this is going to have to be a defensive player of the year season for him. Right. Like, because of some of the weak spots on the defensive end he's going to have to clean up more mistakes he's going to have to get more stops around the paint and for him he's going to have

to perform for them to maintain being a top five defense but i mean i think overall though they still have the personnel lebron's a good defender 80 is a dominant defender they have other guys that could step up maybe with more defined roles and Horton Tucker. Also, I would be interested to see how he performs on defense with regular minutes regular opportunity. I'm willing to bet that that's one of the reasons why they were willing to let Caruso go because it opens opportunity for Horton Tucker to potentially blossom coming off their bench. Well, I know I've made fun of them and poke tolls for the last five minutes,

but I have them ranked first right now in the West and we'll go through, we'll go through some of the hierarchy, but at least for the regular season, as we're still covered when we did a part one last week, Westbrook will really help with that, with his just, he just really gives a shit every game and there's going to be games that he just saves for them. They're going to have enough offense.

And the holes on this team probably won't matter as much until the playoffs. But the Davis thing, it's a big risk to say, all right, you're going to now play the position you've been resisting to play for the last five years, basically. Or last six. No, I know he can. He just has never wanted to. Yeah, maybe he finally had an awakening

that he can play the five almost any game except for maybe when you're facing Denver in the West. If you're facing Jokic, hey, Marc Gasol, you're starting tonight. Dwight Howard, you're out there tonight. But almost any other game, he should be able to start at five. Please, just start at the five.

Well, both Gasols were having a corpse off against Team USA last night, so I'm not sure how much they have left in the tank. And Dwight, God only knows how much he has left in the tank. No small feat, LeBron is going to cross 60,000 minutes next season. At some point, we have to wonder

what is his appetite to carry a team. Look, they didn't hurt themselves. I don't like the Westbrook signing. I'm never going to like it. I like it less than I did when we did our pod on Thursday. I just think,

I just rather would have had Buddy Heald and KCP in the 22nd pick. I'd rather have that right now with this roster I'm looking at. But they're still the Lakers. They'll be fine. We're going to take a break. Then we have eight more questions.

This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now.

Just search Movember. How can you be sure you're making the right decision when choosing a university? The smart approach is to look at the facts. Movember. for a meaningful career and long-term success. Join us in creating positive change at yorku.ca slash write the future. Let's go positive. Five favorite signings so far. Why don't we go, I'll give one, you give one. We'll just go back and forth. Cool. My single favorite signing of free agency

was Patty Mills to the Brooklyn Netsoklyn nets that's a good one for 12 million dollars for two years he is absolutely the perfect guy for them and we'll go into some of the other stuff they did later but uh it's exactly who i want if i'm them i for four playoff rounds he doesn't have to start he's been in a hundred thousand big games he has a propensity to get better in big games unafraid of stuff knows who he is great teammate um i can't i i'm actually really surprised he must have taken he could have at least gotten two for 20 i'm guessing maybe even three for 30 from somebody for definitely two for 20. So he definitely took a discount, but man,

I love that. And FYI gives them some major Kyrie insurance. Cause who knows what that did? You don't know. Like he might be just gone for two weeks in February. He might be gone for a player. You just don't know. And that is real insurance for him at that position.

They didn't have that last year. Yeah. And Patty, Patty Mills is perfect for those exact reasons. Like we talked about with Cam Thomas last week in the draft to getting some shot creation at the guard position behind kairi in the event of injury or whatever whatever else right and yeah i mean similarly i feel the way that way with campaign going back to the suns for three years 19 million i thought he'd get more than that that's an amazing value contract

for phoenix and for him i mean one year removed from signing a contract in China, pretty awesome to sign for $19 million. So it's great for him, great for the Suns, getting him back and signing JaVale McGee. They're filling some holes in their roster. So that was one of your first favorite ones. One of my first favorites. I'm going to go.

We already talked about this, but my second favorite one was Lonzo for 85 for four i just felt like he was 100 million for four minimum and they got a discount on it and that contract is gonna look really good in a couple years because i think he's he has shown i like young guys who every year get better and i really do feel like he's gotten better the last couple years and we'll continue to so so. Who do you have next? DeRozan for me. We already talked about him. Wow, DeRozan. DeRozan, I really feel like he's... Who are they competing against?

Who is the runner-up in the DeRozan sweepstakes? With the spotlight on him, people nationally are going to say, Wow, DeMar DeRozan, not a ball hog. Maybe people thought he might have been in Toronto. He's a playmaker now. He's a passer. People are going to recognize a new side of DeMar DeRozan. So he's,

he's a favorite for that reason. And Kyle Lowry too, you know, his, his best friend going to Miami. That's kind of a given as one of the favorites. Is that one of yours too, Bill?

Or is Lowry too easy of a favorite? That was too easy. I didn't have that one. All right. Sorry. I just realized my audio wasn't plugged in. I hadn't had an audio accident in a while, KOC. We should start doing podcast reads for audio accident insurance.

I don't know if State Farm can have that. All right. I'm back with much better audio. My third favorite, Blake Griffin for the one-year veteran minimum. So you got two nets on there. How is he one-year veteran minimum? Was this a pre-existing wink-wink deal from last season when they signed him that he was going to then again run it back on the veteran minimum this year?

Because that dude is a rotation guy on a playoff team, and we saw a bunch of rotation guys on potential playoff teams get way more money than that i didn't even hear a whisper of who else was heavily pursuing him i wonder if maybe this was just him wanting to return feeling like this is the best place for him he's made enough money you know i mean he has he's made a heck of a lot of money so i don't know if there's a better team for him, a better situation based off everything that we saw for him to win a title. Well, I like that one.

All right. What's your third? Um, Zach Collins, which might be a little offbeat here. This might be one of your least favorites, 22 million, three years. And let me explain myself for a guy who didn't play last season, who has been nothing but hurt and underwhelming throughout his career. I like this because it's an indication of the youth movement in San Antonio. They did it in the draft with Primo,

which I like more now than I did last week because of everything that's followed. They're going with young guys and they're letting their older players go. I think finally Greg Popovich is gonna have to just play the kids, develop the young players. They have a lot of young talent. Let's see who pops. Maybe Zach Collins on this.

It's only $22 million over three years. That's not a big percentage of your cap. Maybe he ends up staying healthy and becomes the guy that people were comparing to Al Horford before the draft. You can't rule it out when he's still in his young 20s. So I like it for the Spurs in the sense that it is a reflection of their overall movement this offseason, and that's towards the youth. So I like it. Has he played like five straight games in a row? I don't believe he has.

He'll be coming up later in another category we have for me. I had my fourth one was Bobby Portis, $9 million for two years. It seems like he might have an opt-out after the first year. And then there'll be some bird rights situation where he could get another thing. But all the rhetoric from the finals was he's getting paid, Bobby Portis, cashing in. And then basically came back on even cheaper of a deal than he got last year and I think he's important for that team

reminiscent of the 08 Celts to me when Posey was such a big piece of that team and then he left because he got the New Orleans

paid him a big deal and he had to go but I think from an energy chemistry they know what he is he's he's hit or miss as a bench guy

but when he hits it makes a huge difference for them and he just fits in with what they have to get that guy for what they paid is crazy to me yeah i mean that's such a discount deal and i mean i think there's a there's been a handful of those where i thought guys get paid more um than they did you know we mentioned some earlier jeff green five million annually yeah den. That's not a bad deal for him. With everything we saw him do for Brooklyn last year, every year he plugs in in a different way for a new team.

So that's another one of my favorites, Jeff Green. My last one, this is going to surprise you. I liked Reggie Bullock for $30.5 for three years to Dallas. I have him in a different category. Oh, interesting. All right, so we're going to have the Zach Collins, Reggie Bullock trade. I just wanted them to find dudes who could play next

to Luka. And they ended up keeping Hardaway, which I thought was also surprising. But they have Hardaway and Bullock next to him. And who's the other guy they signed? They had one more that I liked. I'm blanking. But I thought that was what they needed.

Shooting and D. Reliable dudes. Sterling Brown was the other. Sterling Brown. Good 11th man. I just liked that move. What was your fifth favorite? I think I said Horton. Did I say horton tucker earlier

uh yeah i mean we talked about him yeah somebody somebody else maybe batum going back to the clippers there was noise about him going somewhere else i think he's really important to that team and if they do make the playoffs kawaii comes back gonna be a critical piece of that roster all right we'll go least favorite signings want Want to start with Bullock? Go ahead. You can start with that one. Explain yourself. It's nothing against him as a player. He's going to help them as a shooter. And the expectations for Dallas entering this offseason was about finding somebody who can help handle the ball for you and alleviate some of the pressure off of Luca and Bullock at three years, $30.5 million solid for what he does, but it doesn't help what the team needs. And it's just kind of a reminder

of some of the missed opportunities that the Mavericks might've had this off season for trade or signing. And so in that sense, I'm just disappointed by it because it doesn't help take the ball out of Luca's hands and help show new dimensions of his game. Can I give you why the, the last piece that is going to make you like it? I think they're going to get drag. I think this plays out pre-deadline. No,

I think it's going to be before the season. I think Toronto is going to flip him. It'll be like Dwight Powell and Jalen Brunson, something like that, or whatever else. And I think Dragic goes to Dallas to play with his Slovenian guy,

Doncic. I could see it. Powell, $11 million, that could work. I assume they were loading up on these swing guys because they knew that they were getting Dragic. If that happens, I will put Bullock in a different category. Not one I assume they were loading up on these swing guys because they knew that they were getting dodged. Dragic. If that happens, I will put Bullock in a different category.

Not one of the favorites, but not in the least favorite category. My least favorite contract. Man, there was a couple. There was a couple I really disliked, but I think this is the leader for me. New Orleans Noel for $32 million for three years to the Knicks. I have that one on there, yeah.

This just flies in the face of everything we've seen in the last for me. New Orleans Noel for $32 million for three years to the next. I have that one on there. Yeah. This just flies in the face of everything we've seen in the last couple of years. Big guys are no longer worth numbers in this price range. In the draft, they've fallen out of the lottery where now you basically don't take a big guy until it's like 16th or later. And just year after year, you can find JaVale McGee for one year, 5 million. You could find Dwight Howard for the minimum. It's just easy to get these guys. And you can't tell me like there's a discernible difference between JaVale McGee for one year, 5 million and New Orleans DeWale, 32 million for three.

If you just put them, if you had a computer simulate them on the Knicks, I just don't feel like it makes really any difference so I don't why am I paying six times as much for New Orleans Noel I don't get it not to mention he's never healthy I mean he's been healthy a couple years in a row now I mean so hopefully you know for them stay relatively healthy he was relatively healthy last year but he wasn't like 100 healthy yeah the Knicks I don't have a knicks fan in my life who's like man we got to get noel back i just i don't care what happens this off season as long as we get noel

back nobody said that i don't love it for the contract value that's why i had him on my list too solid big but 10 million annually it seems to me like that's more like somebody that you're signing for that dollar amount with the hopes of in a year or a couple months or maybe two years of using that player in a trade. Same thing with Evan Fournier. That's why I couldn't have Fournier on this list. Because even though he's making a lot of money and too much for his caliber of player, the Knicks are making some of these moves so they have tradable deals in the $10 or $20 million range. Easy to put them together like puzzle pieces to get something bigger. Do we think there's a team option for year three for these deals?

Because another one that was on my list was Derrick Rose for $43 million for three years. I thought that was stupefying. He showed last year he was really good for them, but there's a specific minute number that he can play, right? He can play 25, 26 minutes a game. As soon as they upped that number in the Atlanta series, because they had to, he completely fell apart. So he's 12 minutes a half, maybe 10 minutes first half, 50 minutes second half, but has a lot of miles on him. He's a 2008 draft guy.

He's had multiple surgeries. And that was just, I don't know who they were competing against with that. Who else was giving him $43 million? I thought that was bizarre. Maybe Chicago. I mean, if they want to have a homecoming, um, but, uh, I had, I hadn't heard anything clear other than the Knicks, um, for Derrick Rose. Very strange.

I, the foreign, the foreign HRA, uh, signing was not on my list, but I was a little better. I would have been mad if the Celtics did that, but I could understand why the Knicks did it, right? They needed some sort of perimeter guy who could handle and move the ball and create his own shot at least a little bit. Because last year, they just had too many of the Bullock types, but they didn't have that one guy who could at least, if a play broke down, seven seconds left in a shot clock, could try to create something, which is something he can do. And I think with the Celtics, we just never saw him. He got COVID immediately and it was just never right for them. He's fine. I think it's a tiny bit pricey for him, but that one didn't make me gasp the way the Noel contract and even the Rose contract did. I didn't like it.

Who do you have least favorite? What's your next one? Devante Graham, four years, $47 million to the Pelicans in a sign and trade. I mean, they had to give a pickup to get them. Hornets fans couldn't stand him at certain points last season, not just because he was playing ahead of LaMelo Ball, but because he's a six-foot guard who wasn't getting stops on defense, can't score inside the arc.

He's a good, not great three point shooter. And it just feels to me just like an option C for the Pelicans to sign him. And I mean, he's not a bad player by any means, but Zion and Ingram and that roster need better at the point card position than what Devante Graham can provide. So that's one of my least favorites. Well, the one that pushes that one over the top is that they gave a protected first on top of it. They didn't even get a protected first for Lonzo. I'm with you.

I didn't like that one either. My next one was Norman Powell. Portland brought him back 90 million for five. Wow, you didn't like that one, huh? $90 million for Norman Powell? No, I did not. I actually did not like that one huh 90 million dollars for norman powell no i did not i actually did not like that dollars too sure come on i feel like duncan robinson duncan robinson there's room for him to keep getting better like he's a young guy who i could see there's some sort of arc with him norman powell kind of is what he is and they brought

him last year and he made no difference at all. And they got bounced in the playoffs. So they're doubling down on that now? Who's paying him now? It all goes back to me. It's like, who are you competing against for 90 million five years for Norman Powell? It seems panicky.

Really? I'm pretty sure the Knicks, among maybe some other teams, were after him. I mean, he's only going to be 28 next year. It's not like he's 32. gonna be 28 next year it's not like he's 32 i'm not saying he'll get dramatically better but he's a good shooter you know he can attack closeouts do a little bit off the dribble for you good defensive player i don't i don't

mind it necessarily 18 million dollars annually isn't isn't that bad and also i mean like who are you bidding against but what other option do you have? If you're the Blazers, just let them walk after you gave up Gary Trent for him and, you know, bring back a Rodney Hood. I just, I don't know. I don't. Would you rather have Gary Trent at three for 54 or Powell for 90 for five? Powell, I'll lean slightly because of the defensive factor. And because you look at what Portland's doing, it's pretty clear to me

that they're building up a stable of wings and guards, which is going to make CJ McCollum way more expendable. My thing is, I'm not going $18 million and up on anybody unless I think they can be an actual difference maker. I think with these teams getting in trouble, paying role guys big money, that over and over again, that's what we see real regrets for. It's like, oh, we're paying this guy 18 or 19 or 20, whatever it is, and he's just not a difference maker. I don't know. I thought he was

fine on Portland last year. I didn't feel like he changed the equation for them in any way. And I think that's going to be a really hard one to unload. I like that we're disagreeing on some of these. I had Zach Collins next on my list. I'm surprised. I feel like I might be alone. But I think the reasons why I like it are understandable, though. I get it. I'm out on all if he stays healthy, guys.

Yeah. When that's just the words at the end of their name, I get nervous. Who else do you have? Robin Lopez to the Magic for no reason other than he's another obstacle for Mo Bamba. Yeah, I was thinking you. But then again, if you can't get minutes over Robin Lopez, maybe it's just not going to work for you. I thought that would have been a good backup for Philly

instead of the Drummond one, which I thought was right. I know they didn't pay anything for Drummond. Drummond is the next one on my list. It's going to cost nothing, but come on. It's going to be fun to watch. Those guys have trolled each other for years on the court, on social media. It's going to be fun, but I don't like it compared

to some of the other options. My last one. Honorable mention for Daniel Tice for $36 million for four years just because I had to watch him for five years and was delighted that the Celtics traded him, but I can't put that on. Jared Allen for $36 million for four years, just because I had to watch him for five years and was delighted that the Celtics traded him. But I can't put that on. Jared Allen for $100 million for five years. Wow.

That was nuts to me. So we have Miles Turner, who is making $18 million a year the last couple of years. Indiana couldn't trade him to save their life because everyone's like, that's way too expensive for a center, right? We have Steven Adams who was making 27 a year ago and got traded in New Orleans. Then they did the extension. He made like 18 in New Orleans. We have to get off this contract. We see all of these other center numbers. I like Jared Allen. I'm not against

Jared Allen. I just don't want to pay $20 million for a center. $20 million a year for five years for a guy who's not going to make an all-star team who is basically a throw-in in that trade. And Houston looked at it and was like, we don't want him. And he ends up getting rerouted to Cleveland. I like the player.

I just don't like the contract. I don't want to spend that kind of money on a center. If it's me, I just don't. I don't mind it because you have Evan Mobley on a rookie contract. And so it's like, I mean, I know you're paying Jared Allen individually, the $20 million, but combined those guys are making under 30 to compose your front court. It's fair. And I think in that sense, you know, at some point when you pay Mobley in four years, maybe the Allen contract, it's only got a year left. And at that time, maybe you're deciding between keeping Allen or trading him. And he's on a one year, $20 million expiring, which isn't so

bad. Like I understand not liking it in a vacuum. Maybe it's too much for a center when those guys can get played off the court and many playoff series. But Jaron Allen and Evan Mobley, I look at it as an investment in that front court. In that combo. Yeah. I'm just I feel like he went from. It's a lot. It's a lot of money. I feel like he went from underrated

where it was kind of like, oh, I like that guy. Like as a rookie center, good price. I'm surprised Brooklyn gave him up to now it's like we got to give that guy 20 million a year. It's like, oh, I like that guy. He has a rookie center, good price. I'm surprised Brooklyn gave him up to now. It's like, we got to give that guy $20 million a year. It's like, what? He's okay. I don't think he's ever going to be an all-star.

I just thought that one was weird. Alright, that's it. That's all I got. Shemi Ojole was my last one. Shemi Ojole. For worse signings? Yeah, I mean, losing P.J. Tucker and replacing him with Shemi. Just had to throw

that one out there. Listen, I love that signing because it finally got him off the Celtics. Nice guy. Great guy. Your dad said you enjoyed his

My dad and I, my dad, we were going to talk about the Celtics in one second. My dad, who's just out of his mind about the Celtics

and just being in a coma. And he was like, well, at least we got rid of Shemmy. That was his reaction to our offseason so far. We're going to talk about the Celts in one second. Take it a quick break. All right, so we have six questions left for free agency. This is the next one for me. Are the Celtics waiting for Bradley Beal?

Because that was the internet conspiracy theory on the internet today, because the other option for their off season was all of the powers out in the Celtics office and they're trapped inside and nobody can get ahold of anybody there. It's one of those two. So what do you think? Are they waiting for Bradley Beal? How else would you explain them sitting out basically the entire free agency? I mean, they're waiting for something. They haven't even completed the three-way deal involving Thompson and Dunn. That might have to wait till August 6th, then maybe they expand on it. I don't know what the deal is there exactly with the holdup. It seems like it'll be a complicated three-way deal, but it's very, very odd how they've sat out entirely. I mean, we're talking about like a lot of, you know, good players that could have

fit on the roster here. Like you mentioned a younger guy, Malik monk, plenty of veterans that could have fit too. I wonder, I wonder why. I mean, I wonder what they are waiting for, um, by not using any of the money this year, but then again, they are against the cap and they have luxury tax issues potentially, especially with guys coming up. So maybe it's just not about committing any money this year and getting themselves into a tough situation. But still, not even a league minimum guy.

It's kind of odd. First of all, luxury tax. They've made 10 times on the investment that they paid for the team. I'm not really sweating it for them. Here's what they would have in summer of 2022. Here's what's on the books. Jason Tatum, 30.3.

Jalen Brown, 28.7. This is for the season after the next one. Al Horford, 26.5 or 14.5 payoff that they could stretch for three years. So basically it'd be 4.75 a year or 14.5 payoff that they could stretch for three years. So basically it'd be 4.75 a year or whatever. And then Neesmith and Pritchard, 6.0 combined. So guaranteed-wise, they could either be, if they just keep Horford, 91.5.

If they just pay Horford 14.5 to get rid of them, they're at 79.5. If they stretch Horford, they're basically at 70. The cap will be at somewhere between 115 and 120. That's more than enough money to make a giant offer to a free agent next summer. And the number one guy is Bradley Beal. We all know he's friends with Jason Tatum. I have a couple thoughts on this. One, I think it's really risky to just cross your fingers and hope is Bradley Beal. We all know he's friends with Jason Tatum. I have a couple thoughts on this.

One, I think it's really risky to just cross your fingers and go for Bradley Beal. We saw them get in incredible amounts of trouble with that with Anthony Davis a couple years ago. Two, I'm not positive. I love Tatum, Jalen, and Bradley Beal as my entire salary cap. Three guys who like to have the ball

that don't necessarily make anyone else better. That makes me nervous. And then three, if this is your plan, you can't do an extension for Marcus. And you know, Marcus is going to start rightfully complaining about that soon. Like, hey, are they going to make a commitment to me or not? He's in the last year of his deal. And they also have the time Lord issue. So I wonder maybe this Bradley Beal thing is an internet red herring. And what they're actually going to do is mystery guy, who we don't know who that is yet, because as you said, they haven't completed that weird trade. Smart extension, maybe it's 20 million a year for him, bump. Robert Williams, maybe 12 million a year. And that's the team they roll with.

Could the mystery guy be Laurie Markkinen? Or how about John Collins? Just to throw another name out there. So they would have to go, they'd have to be enough under the cap to try to steal him for a restricted offer. And I don't think they have the money. I think they can only get to like 20, right? It would have to be like a massive add-on to the existing deal as is right? It would have to be like a massive, you know,

add-on to the existing deal as is. And it would have to be like a non-advocate. But then the Hawks have to get involved with that. They'd have to take Marcus Smart back. They'd have to take other guys back in a deal. Like it would get really complicated. Seems too far-fetched. It probably is. I'm just throwing the name out there, but I mean.

No, I thought it. I did all the math on it because I was like, it's John Collins. Then I actually did it. Atlanta would have to facilitate it. Why would Atlanta help us get John Collins? They're not doing that. Unless they wanted Marcus Smart back in return.

I could potentially see that. On paper, getting him in a backcourt with Trae Young, I'd be into that. That'd be cool. Marcus Smart, Trae Young backcourt with trey young i'd be i'd be into that that'd be cool marcus smart trey young backcourt you're not a fan marcus is one of those guys that i'm ready for them to trade him but i'm also going to be devastated when they trade him i mean he's been the heartbeat of the team for years sometimes i wonder why you want to trade him so often bill he's the heartbeat of the team They've been lifeless without him on the court a lot of the time. When he was out in recent years,

they didn't have any energy on defense. He brings it. Could marketing bring them what you would think Collins would bring them in a lot of ways? A scoring forward with size. Where do you stand on marketing? We've never had the conversation, I don't think. I never loved him in the drafts uh back in the day bulls fans hated me i gave the pick like a c minus for

oh my god uh and uh now they want them gone right uh with with marketing still only 23 years old has dealt with injuries dealt with jim boylan you know changing coaches changing personnel around never had a real point guard never had a real point guard and I mean the the problem is he doesn't rebound and he doesn't defend but I think his offensive creativity has been untapped in Chicago so like while I didn't love the pick at the time and he's underwhelmed since he was drafted seventh in the lottery there's still a lot of ability on offense that I'd be very curious to see what a creative coach could get out of him. Cause he's like a guard in a big body with the way he rebounds is the negative, but also

the way he can shoot from the perimeter too. The way he can handle the ball. So fluid coast to coast is really unique for his size. Yeah. I think there's a, there's some scoring stuff with him. That's a little Gallinari ask, right? That would be the dream. Basically, he turns into Gallinari where he can shoot threes.

You can also throw him the ball on the side. He can create some stuff. There's some mismatch stuff with him and Tatum that I think would be tough for certain teams. I think he's completely undervalued now. We talked about guys like Jared Allen that have become almost a little overvalued. The marketing thing, this is nuts. This is a guy who could be a 20-point scorer on the right team. And the Bulls just never figured it out with him.

And then kind of almost sabotaged him, it seemed like. And I just... Who are the guys that are left? Basically, we're taping this right now. It is 7.49 Pacific time. The guys that are left are basically Markkinen, Schroeder, Dinwiddie, and Collins. I would say those are the four

quote-unquote names left. And I think Collins, that's a tough one because he's only really going to want to leave if it's for a lot of money and nobody has the cap space. Have we heard where he might go? He's only really going to want to leave if it's for a lot of money and nobody has the cap space. Have we heard where he might go? He's only been leaked to San Antonio as far as I remember, and that was in the context of a DeRozan sign-on trade,

which he's not a part of. Have we heard anything else about teams? No. Maybe Boston could be a mystery team for him. Do we like Collins? What's your take on him? I liked how competitive he was in the playoff games. John Collins definitely competes, can rim run for you.

Was not afraid. Was not afraid of those games. Yeah, I'm a John Collins fan. I am. What happened with that drug suspension? That made me nervous last year or a year ago, 2020. Remember, 25 games for this mystery substance or whatever it was? But that drug suspension, that made me nervous last year. Or a year ago, 2020, remember? 25 games for this mystery substance or whatever it was.

Eight and ones got suspended for 25 games. That made me nervous too. And then became a playoff hero. So maybe that's a trend. Maybe suspension is the road to making a leap in the playoffs. Yeah, with Collins, Indiana maybe? If there was a Turner. Because now that Atlanta doesn't have a

Quango. And Turner was involved in some trade talks, as he is every year. That's old news. Yeah, I don't know. So anyway, with the Celtics, I have no idea what they're doing. My dad is out of his mind. He's the most upset he's been in a while with the team.

He was worried about Brad being in control. He did not like Josh Richardson. And with reason, Josh Richardson hasn't played well in two years. And he's just really nervous. He's like, what are we doing? But did you see the picture of Josh Richardson wearing a Celtics jersey

with a Patriots poster in the background? He tweeted that out or put it on Instagram or something. Josh Richardson did. When he was young. He was a kid. poster in the background. He tweeted that out or put it on Instagram or something. Josh Richardson did. When he was young. He was a kid. Boston sports fan. I do like that Udoka coached him in Philly two years ago and obviously put in a word, right?

You would assume they don't do that deal unless Udoka's like, no, no, that guy's good. And there's some interesting stats with him about, and certain guys in the league are like this, right? When you play off the ball, some guys just aren't good. Dinwiddie is another one. All the stats are like,

if you're just using him as like a guy who's standing over to the side, he's not as good. If you give him the ball, you let him cook. He can emerge. I liked in with you. I think it's going to be complicated for them to trade or to sign him just because nobody has any money left.

But yeah, that, that, that deal with Washington, Danny LaRue wrote an article about that, like detailing all the weird ways using cap, you know, loopholes to,

to get Dinwiddie to Washington. Like we talked about like the, the three-way complications with the Hawks Celtics and Kings. Yeah. That wizard's nest thing could get a, be really funky to have to work that out. Well, you never answered my question.

Are the Celtics waiting for Bradley Beal? I'd say yeah, like 100% yes. They're waiting for Beal, Lillard, whatever star pops up in a trade. And whether that involves creating cap space to sign and trade for him while only giving up one salary, or whether it means trading for him

before the deadline this year. I think the Celtics, among many other teams, are waiting for Beal and Lillard and all those guys because I don't feel like really any of the moves, aside from Lowry to Miami, have dramatically swung the championship needle for many teams at all. I think they're all just waiting for those guys to strike on them. Well, so that means no extension for Smart and they roll the dice with Robert Williams as a restricted free agent

next summer. Seems like that's going to be the path. Okay. I like it. I like waiting for the star. Brad Stevens learning a little bit from Danny Ainge. Maybe he's able to hit a home run.

Next question. How did the Nets end up with the best bench in the NBA? When you put these big threes together with expensive superstars, you're not also supposed to have a slew of awesome role players. Their team right now, Durant, Hart, and Kyrie, Joe Harris, Blake Griffin, starters, Bruce Brown, Patty Mills, Nick Claxton,

James Johnson, Cam Thomas, and the North Carolina center that we like. Dayron Sharp. That's pretty good. Dayron Sharp. That's 11 really solid guys that if anyone's injured out for a couple weeks, they're fine. We have not seen a team with a quote-unquote big three

with this kind of depth as well. And look, I make fun of GMs and front offices all the time. Like Sean Marks, good job by him. Really good job by him. Like I thought they nailed the draft. I love the signings. I think they did a really good job. I mean, they've been, they've been masterful ever since before they got Katie and Kyrie, like that fun Kenny Atkinson team that they had with Karis LeVert, Spencer Dinwiddie, all the great young talent that they had. And they were able to parlay that into the stars, then able to add

a great bench behind him. If it weren't for injuries this year, they'd probably win the NBA finals and we're talking about them going back to back. I think they are a prohibitive favorite to at least be one of the three best teams.

So I was getting, this is not one of the three best teams. So this is not one of the 10 questions, but to me, Nets, Bucks, Lakers, and then a drop, and then it's everyone else. And I think if you're picking title teams and it's not Nets, Bucks, Lakers, you're just trying to throw shit against the wall or try to get attention or zig. Like Nets, Bucks, all the heat stuff.

And we're talking about the heat in a second. Like the heat aren't as good as the Nets on the Bucks. Yeah. They're not going to beat them in a playoff series if the Nets and Bucks are healthy. The Nets and Bucks are just better than everybody else. Yeah. It's probably Lakers, Bucks, Nets, tier one. Yes.

And then in the East, maybe Sixers in that, depending on what happens. Yeah, I don't see it. Don't you think with the way Giannis, the way Giannis jumped, we have to factor that in now with the tiers? Because now it's like, we don't know what kind of wildebeest

is going to be unleashed on the league next year now that he has, like, champion confidence. Not to mention the Nets. It's like, Durant's fucking unbelievable. Did you see him last night? Yeah, unreal. He's unbelievable. So I just think those are the three best. not to mention the Nets like Durant's fucking unbelievable did you see him last night? yeah

like he's unbelievable so I just think those are the three best I don't really care about anybody else nobody else do you think anybody has a chance of breaching that top three or having a fourth team?

like which teams? if we have what happened last year where we have a bunch of dumb injuries yeah but if everyone's healthy those are the three best teams. I don't see whatever Miami

did does not put them on par with the other three. Yeah, and I'm not sure there's another... I don't think there's another move for Miami to get into that. We talked about Beal for the Celtics. There's another move for the Celtics. There's another move for some of these teams, but

not necessarily for them. I mean, I'm in agreement they're the top three for sure. No doubt. Well, that was my next question, so we should just bleed into that. Did Miami do enough to crack the top two? I don't think they did. I like what they did. I think they had to do it. Butler Adebayo, Kyle Lowry, Tyler Hero, Duncan Robinson,

Dwayne Dedman, Markeith Morris, P.J. Tucker. So they have eight. They'll get two more guys in January, Februarykeith Morris, P.J. Tucker. So they have eight. They'll get two more guys in January, February because that's how it always works. They gave Butler a giant extension. They gave Lowry and Robinson a combined $180 million. So they spent about $364 million on three guys to lock that down for the next four years, those three.

P.J. Tucker is basically a one-year deal. Look, I thought he was a zero other than box outs and a couple games where he played pretty good defense. I thought he was the most overrated guy in the playoffs. He's going to be a year older now, and they're actually going to need him. They have no salary cut flexibility at all. And yet, I like what they did

because they really didn't give up a lot for Lowry. Precious and Dragic, come on. You're doing that every time. And I don't know. It's always hard to know with trade negotiations what exactly was included until the deal is close to final. But before the deadline, I had heard they were talking about Duncan Robinson and Precious Achua and salary. Giving up just Achua in that deal, win you know major loss for the for the raptors on the other side of that uh you know keep kyle lowry in tampa bay for just a couple more

weeks and then end up with less than you could have gotten for him prior to the deadline um i mean i get that the the bet on waiting until restricted until free agency because maybe you can sign them trade them for more um. But it just didn't work out for the Raptors. And a big-time win for the Heat. Like, they're 100% one of the winners of the offseason.

Great job by them. I think when Dallas cleared the cap space, that paved the way for him to go to Miami. Because then Toronto has to take the crappy Miami offer at that point.

Yeah. Because if they don't, they just get nothing. So now they can flip Drogage to Dallas, I would assume. But, you know, he makes sense on Miami. We're going to hear a lot about him and Jimmy Butler, about how this is a grit and grind type team, all that stuff.

It's a pretty old team other than, you know, when you're talking about like perimeter guys, Butler, Tucker, Lowry, Markeith Morris, and then Duncan Robinson, who's young, but isn't exactly like a lockdown guy and hero is not a defender either. Um, I questioned them as a regular season team. I think a playoff series, probably a little better equipped, but, um, the East is going to be better this year. And we just saw it. You really want to be one of the top four seeds or the playoffs just become really hard. And I just question with the team they have, can they be in the top four from a health standpoint? Can they go 51 and 31, something like that? Can all those guys stay on the court? We don't know with Lowry.

We've talked about it before, but like the amount of, you know, if he was a running back, the amount of 400 carry seasons he's had as a running back, you know? Like at some point, your body's going to give out. He's near the top of the league

almost every year in charges taken. I mean, you don't even need to look at the numbers to know how hard he plays on defense, never the offensive load that he carries i love lowry he was a little bit worse last year than he was in past years he was hard to know how much of that is with them being on the road the whole year weird covid season playing in tampa i'm kind of like you know scratching it off still it was a really good player despite all that was an all-star prior so you i think i'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for now but no denying the facts the mileage and the years

that he has on his body like that is an older team and what did you think about the jimmy butler extension 184 million dollars for four years you don't have much of a choice but to give it it's tough a lot of money it's it's tough's tough because he's a little older than I think people realize. And it made me gulp. But I think you have to do it. You can't risk it. And he's like Sicilian. He reminds me of my Italian people.

If he feels slighted or something happened, he just files it away. And that's it. You lose the guy. He's just out. He's files it away and he's going to, that's it. You lose the guy. He's just out. He's going to get revenge. So I just felt like they were like, fuck it. We don't want to deal with this. I think he's a good bet to stay in shape.

I think he really gives a shit. Oh, yeah. No doubt. But same thing with Lowry. I just wonder about the wear and tear, what that's going to look like year three, year four. Because I remember we worried about this with Wade and we worried about it with Reason. Because the way he played, he took so much punishment

that they made a commercial about it. Remember? It was like nine times down, 10 times get up or whatever it was. It was like, this is a bad sign. They're making a commercial about how much punishment. Isaiah Thomas was another one. You watched Isaiah Thomas game in, game out. You're like, man, this guy takes a fucking shit how much punishment? Isaiah Thomas was another one. You watched Isaiah Thomas game in, game out, and you're like, man,

this guy takes a fucking shitload of punishment. And then he gave out. Yeah, the little guy. I hope he goes back to Boston. How cool would that be? That would make them winners of the offseason. Sign the IT back. Yeah, I'd be interested to see my dad's reaction on that one. So we think

Miami, would you have them in the three spot, or would you have Philly in the three spot? In the East, I'd probably have them four right now. I'm going to give the edge to the Sixers because they have Joel Embiid, MVP candidate. Yeah. I think I agree with you. Next question. Are white guys back? Look at these numbers for the white guys. Duncan Robinson, 90 million. Doug McDermott, 42. Kelly Olenek, 37. Alex Caruso, 37. TJ McConnell, 35.

Zach Collins, 22. It was a white guy spending spree. What is going on? Cody Zeller got 5 billion. Couldn't believe that. How about in the draft too, Bill? You got Giddy and Wagner going in the top 10. A lot of white guys.

White guys back. I want to see that. That needs to be a Jalen and Jacoby topic. I'm demanding it. Our white guys back. Jalen, we need your answer on that. We're going to take a break. I have a couple more questions left. Okay. A couple more. KFC, what would you say?

You're having drinks with a diehard Pelicans fan. You're three beers in, and he looks at you sadly and says, KFC, make me feel better about this. What would you tell him? Well, I mean, we haven't seen a pick uh sign the qualifying offer and leave after their rookie deal we saw chris taps for zingas threatened to do it the knicks were happy to trade him phil jackson loved moving chris taps for zingas and it turned out it could have been the right decision yep we haven't seen it happen that's about the extent of what i can say in terms of the contract future for zion williamson

but he's a real threat to leave and with this team though you still have bernie ingram who i think is going to be better this year people are saying he is you still got some young guys nikhil alexander walker kira lewis right now you're in a place pelicans fan where you're sad and you're worried because you're paying davante graham 47 million dollars over four years and you didn't get the guys you were hoping to get but there's still a lot of young talent on the roster and maybe in a couple of years when zion's contract is up he's like you know what i don't want to push my way out i want to stick with these guys and try to win with them um but that

it's kind of hard to make a pelicans fan feel good i don't feel like that would make many of them feel good, especially three drinks in. All right, we just had a fourth drink, and then I come back at you with this. I'm still the sad Pelicans fan. KOC, my starting backcourt is Devante Graham and Tomas Sadoransky. Do you want to do a fireball shot?

At this point, I would say to you, well, if Damian Lian lowered at some point expresses that he wants to leave the pelicans could be in a position to be like you know what we don't care that we're not on his list we're gonna put all of our future picks and satiransky and graham and a deal to meet the salary requirement to get damian lowered and then. And then you have Zion and Dame. Championship, baby! The only problem is all these picks they have, none of them are actually good except their own picks. And they gave one of them up already.

Lottery protected next year so they could get Devante Graham. Listen, every time poor David Griffin, who's really in a funk, like he needs like an exorcism at this point. Every time I think he makes a bad move, he makes a worse one. Trading a protected first to get Devontae Graham is just inexplicable to me. What are you doing?

I looked at... I was like, I like Devontae Graham, I guess. I'm going to go look at his stats. He's one of those guys where he's shooting 38%, but he's also shooting 38% from three. So even on twos, he's 38%. Weird player. He can't guard anybody. He kind of just got hot two years ago.

And last year, I feel like crashed turf a little bit. He was a really nice story. But he wasn't one of the... Rogier and Lomelo were just clearly more important and better than him last year. I thought in the market, maybe, I don't know, three for 30 sounded possible. But they gave him four for 47 and trade a pick. And this is after all these, they're leaking all these news reports about Kyle Lowry.

They're going all in on Kyle Lowry and making it seem like they're in the mix for real guys. And this is who they got? Embarrassing. It's a bummer. It's a bummer. Their bench right now, Kira Lewis,

who I think we both like, but they're actually going to need him next year. Alexander Walker, Jackson Hayes, who might've been a miss and just had a huge, put this out, he was on TMZ for like three days in a row.

And then Garrett Temple, who we all like, but is the ninth man on this team. And then Valanchunas, who I have no idea what he's doing with Zion and Ingram. I heard you and Verno talking about that on the pod you put up this morning. Valanchunas just can't play against certain teams. I like him.

I think he's good. There's certain matchups where you can't even keep him on the floor, and Zion and In just can't play against certain teams. I like him. I think he's good. There's certain matchups where you can't even keep him on the floor, and Zion and Ingram aren't guarding anybody either. So this is maybe the worst defensive team in the league now, right? Who's getting stops on this team? I said it to Chris earlier on the pod. I think it all starts with Zion and Brandon Ingram. Like, they're the best players on the team.

Those guys need to defend. Stan Van Gundy, for all his flaws as a coach, he's gone for a reason. But the one thing he was right about last season, he was bashing those guys in front of the media. Our best players need to set an example. Our best players need to set a stone on defense. It's on

Williamson and Ingram. Those guys get to defend every single night and set that tone and define who they are. If they don't do that, the team's never going to go anywhere. Last question. Then you feel free to come up with some bonus questions. Are the Warriors our second best West team?

They made a couple sneaky ones that I liked. We have Craig Horlback producing tonight's podcast, a big Warriors fan. I really liked Otto Porter as a flyer free agent this year. He just hasn't been healthy. He's another guy who became kind of underrated because his contract was so bad.

It's like, Otto Porter's making 27 million. Oh my God, he sucks. He doesn't suck. He's actually like the kind of guy, if he can stay on the floor, that makes a lot of sense in this day and age. He's a three and D guy who's athletic, who can actually,

he's a good passer. He does good things. I just, his problem is he just hasn't been able to stay on the floor. And I think last year he probably was healthy and they didn't, you know, they trade him to Orlando and the whole thing. And then B,

B, B, pretty good Bielica I've been dying to see him on a good team I've wanted it for forever

he ended up on Miami last year but it was like it was too late in the season but if he he's 33

who knows if he has anything left so they have those two guys Wiggins is back Kevon Looney Kaminga Wiseman Moses Moody, Poole, Paschal. They've 12 NBA players. Now, three of them are babies, but- They're going to be great, Bill. They're a major

contender. They're not maybe quite in that upper echelon of teams, but they're the one that could make it a top four. If Klay comes back and he's Klay Thompson, the same Klay Thompson we've all known and loved for years, they're in that top four pretty solidly. So we're saying it's the same because I love Curry. So I'm always like, I'm going to go glass half full all the time. But I really think this is the second best. If you're saying them versus the Suns, I would like the Warriors upside more. Oh, me too.

I mean, no doubt about that. And like Draymond Green is going to come back with a vengeance too. He was outstanding defensively last year. Imagine him this year when they actually have serious championship hopes. And Jordan Poole, you mentioned him in passing, but the way he closed the year for them, he was pretty great. He had some really good games for them playing more regular minutes. So I mean, for the Warriors, if any of their young guys, if any one of them pop and surpass expectations,

that's a game changer for them. They have a lot of those lottery tickets with their youth off the bench. But yeah, I love the Warriors. They're going to be awesome. So, if Porter stays healthy, and you have Wiggins, Porter, Bielitsa, Looney, and Poole as the known quantities with their best three. That's eight guys.

And then they have the moody Wiseman Kaminga as these young athletes. They can throw out in home games. They can throw out when they're up 15. They can really carefully insert in certain lineups, throw some of them out, really be careful with them. But when they come in, it's like young legs, athleticism, and they're running around and just doing stuff. And that's a good situation for all three

of those guys. I think Moody out of those three would probably be the one that has a chance. And then who the fuck knows with Wiseman? I could see him being good next year. I'm not ruling that out. Are you? No, definitely not. I think Steve Kerr was the quote he had before or maybe at the beginning of Team USA training camp saying, yeah, there's some things I could have done differently.

Well, let's see if they do some of those things this coming season because they did start to figure some stuff out before he got hurt. Running more pick and roll with Steph and Wiseman and it was working pretty well. So how much of that will carry over? Maybe they'll do a lot more of it. And if that's the case, that's good news for James Wiseman, and it was working pretty well. So how much of that will carry over? Maybe they'll do a lot more of it. And if that's the case, that's good news for James Wiseman. So I have the West, and I put two minutes of thought into this

so I don't get carried away people listening who are upset where I put their team. I had the Lakers by themselves at the top in the West. Then the next here is Suns, Warriors, Jazz, Mavericks. Mavericks in the same group as them? Because of Luka. Because this is Luka's...

Luka's going to win the gold medal. I'm just calling it now. And then he is going to win the MVP and he is going to go full-fledged Giannis this season. So I have those four. That's a good MVP prediction. I think he's the favorite.

Yeah, I'm not creating one there. I think he is the favorite. So I have those five. And then the next level, Clips, Nuggets, Blazers. Clips, no Kawhi really the whole year. Nuggets, no Murray basically the whole year. And then the Blazers, who the fuck knows? But I think that's the top eight in some order. And then you have that next level where

it's like Grizzlies, Pelicans, Kings, Spurs. It's basically the playing tournament group. I don't see any of them vaulting up. And then the bottom level is OKC, Rockets, T-Wolves. Out of everybody I just read in order, who's the one that was a level too low for you? Or did that seem right? Do you think the Mavs were a level too high? I'd put them in the level right below. So you'd put them with Clips, Nuggets, Blazers?

Yeah, but with potential, I'd probably put I mean, maybe are they in a tier of their own? Because I think they're above those teams. Yeah, you're right. That's a good way to do it. Are they kind of alone? Yep. I think that's where I'd have them. But other than that, I mean, that's pretty good.

Maybe Minnesota's way better. Maybe they pop. Maybe the Pelicans. If Zion starts defending, Ingram starts defending, maybe they're better. But realistically, I think that top eight that you had feels pretty locked in. And then you go in the Warriors would be the one that could jump.

So the Lakers right now are by themselves at the top, but I think the Warriors are the easiest bet. The Suns, I could see it being a little more like what the year that he just had, a little bit a year after, where it's like everything went right last year, this year, all of a sudden, oh, this guy got hurt. This guy's tired. Oh my God, we lost five in a row. Everyone's gunning at you. You're now a big game on somebody's schedule. You weren't last year, all that stuff. In the East, Nets bucks at the top. So the next tier, I think we both have Sixers heat. Would you put the Hawks in that second tier or are they third tier to you?

Are they like the Mavs? I have them third tier for that same exact reason. Same with Dallas that don't have the same amount of firepower as those top teams, but pretty close and a little bit better than the others. And plus they've proven it in the postseason. Okay, so Nets, Bucks, Sixers, Seat, Hawks, and then Bulls, Celtics, Pacers as your six through eight. Would you put anyone else in that group? Because the next group I have is Hornets, Knicks, Raptors, Wizards. What group did you have Celtics in there? I put Bulls, Celtics, Pacers. And honestly, it was a Tatum pick.

Because I do think Tatum has a chance to be like a second team NBA guy next year. Are you sure the Celtics aren't in a higher group with Jason Tatum and with Jalen Brown? Are you positive? You put them in the Hawks group? I didn't want to be a homer, but since you're talking me into it, sounds great. All right, Celts, move it up.

Did it make a single signing? Move it up to level three. I like it. Wow. Just by getting rid of Semi-Ocele, we're now a level three team. All right. So you have the Celtics slightly ahead of the Bulls and the Pacers? Yeah, I do.

Okay. And then the bottom group would be Magic, Cavs and Pistons so basically each conference has three teams that you would think are going to be our six put them in the lottery teams

Magics, Cavs, Pistons OKC, Rockets T-Wolves I was trying to think of could any of those jump out of that and if you thought one of those six Magic, Cavs, Pistons, OKC Rockets

T-Wolves, one of those six could actually be better than that, who would you pick? T-Wolves? Cavs Allen, Mobley Garland, Sexton, Okoro Nance, they got a pretty solid roster it's a good team good young team, let mey, Garland, Sexton, Okoro, Nance. They got a pretty solid roster. It's a good team. Good young team.

Let me clarify. Good young team. Well, that would be good for us since we both like Mobley. Yeah. Although I think I liked him more than you. Me and Charks liked him the most. Yeah. Charks had him one, I think, on his board.

Yeah. Me and Charks were alike. Yeah. I don't know what I get, but yeah. Lots of like. Can't go wrong with either of those guys up line. Yeah, I don't know what I get, but yeah, lots of like. Can't go wrong with either of those guys up top. Well, we did it. Did any of the Frasier stuff happen, by the way, since we...

Hold on. Before we go, I'm going to look at Hoop Hype's rumors really fast. Yeah, nothing really happened. There's some Danny Green thing. Danny Green buzzed that he might go somewhere but so we really the big the big pieces left marketing schruder dean witty and john collins right anybody else that's it yeah those are the main ones okay all right koc your piece about uh you're surprisingly optimistic piece about the derosen trade will be up on the ringer.com tomorrow morning. Yep. Wednesday morning on the bulls and then void this week, uh, doing the void,

get a record that sometime tomorrow afternoon for a Thursday posts and, uh, then mismatch again on Friday. And then Craig, who's producing this, they're putting up a whole bunch of fantasy football stuff. Oh yeah. Craig, what are we on with fantasy? What are we on with the fantasy pod? Monday, Wednesdays, and Fridays. What are we doing this week, though? What's going on? It's the first full week of training camp. So we're doing standouts and busts

and getting all overhyped about guys who had one good week of camp in August. There's a lot of Trevor Lawrence is even better than we thought, Buzz. Oh, yeah. Yeah, AFC South sleepers, the Jags. Seven to one. Yeah.

Seven to one. And Travis Etienne, good sleeper. Good sleeper late round running back. KOC, Cam Newton had his best day of a patch training camp in the past two years today. Mac Jones had his worst, I read. And Mac Jones had his worst. So now it looks like we're headed toward another year with Cam.

I'm going to have to talk myself into it. All happening on Tom Brady's 44th birthday. Happy birthday to the GOAT. Happy birthday to the GOAT. Seven rings, 44 years. Unbelievable. The guy is just the best. You were rooting for him last year, right?

Oh, yeah, 100%. I'm rooting for him every year, as long as he goes. Well, he's coming to New England. What week is he coming to New England? It's like week four? Yeah, early in the year. Yeah, it's week to New England. What week is he coming to New England? It's like week four? Yeah, early in the year. Yeah, it's week four. Are you flying out for that?

No. I don't go to football games. I like watching football at home. Me too. I'm a watch football at home type of guy. 100,000%. Like spending a whole Sunday at home instead of dealing with traffic and long lines, all that. Football at home is the best.

I'm really excited. I'm going to throw myself into football next week and start doing the homework, catch up on stuff like our fantasy football podcast that we have and things like that. But it's, I need to take, I always like divorce myself cause I do the basketball stuff and I'm just

all in and I need like three days to reacclimate myself and be like, Oh, that guy's on this team. Oh, that, and all my futures start falling into place. And it's just great. I really love it. I really love every year. And my wife just hates it

because I have like books out and websites and printouts and all this stuff, trying to figure out stuff. But it's part of the process. It's fun to have it back. It's August, football is coming. And basketball took us all the way in August, basically, with these free agent signings and everything.

So now. Kind of nice. I like the timing. I wish they stuck with it, to be honest with you. Yeah, I was thinking if they pushed the season back to mid-November and we were just on this cycle where the draft was end of July and basically the way we had it this year, I think I would like that more, right? Wouldn't you like that more?

Yeah, I would have liked it more. Maybe move it up two weeks or something like that. Rather than ending in early August with free agency and all that, maybe it's late July that it ends. Then we have two weeks off. Yeah, yeah. That makes sense. Something like that could be cool. I would have been into that,

but it looks like they're going back to October. I know. I think they should start at mid-November. I think it gets lost in October. It's like World Series, and it's still the first two months of football. I don't get not going to November just as another one-year trial.

One more year, just to see if November is the sweet spot, because December might be too late. October might be too early. November seems like smack in the middle could have made a lot of sense. They also should have done 76 games instead of 82. Just sacrifice the three home games. You guys have all bought teams that have quadrupled or better since you bought them across the board. Every single team has at least doubled. Just sacrifice the three home games and try to have a better product, but they won't.

All right. That's it. KOC, thank you as always. Craig Horlbeck was the producer of this podcast. You can listen to him on the Fantasy Football Pod. He also produces the Rewatchables 200th episode next Monday. There's lots of rumors

That there's going to be a very popular Very popular movie From the last 15 years, Craig? Yeah You can give the year Do you want to give the year? Make people guess Yeah, give the year

2007 A 2007 movie Will be our 200th rewatchable Also rumors of Sean Fantasy Coming out of paternity leave Just to do this 200th movie. A lot of rumors flying everywhere. Sources are saying there's mutual interest with a lot of different parties. Things are just happening right now. By the way, when did the thing start where we're giving agents the tweets where the agent tells the reporter that their guy signed.

Who wanted this? When did it start? I like the follow-up tweets when they don't put it in the first one. They miss like an agent? And then the rush to type it out. I just don't understand any of this stuff. I bet young players like it. That's my guess. They see the name. They see it reported

by Woj when you're a teenager, college athlete, and you're like, ooh, I like that player. I like that agent. It's promotion, essentially. Okay. KOC, good to see you. Thanks, Craig. We will be back on Thursday night with one more pod.

See you then. I don't have.