The Bill Simmons Podcast - The 1996 Re-Draftapalooza, Ray Allen vs. Allen Iverson, and Week 3 Quarantine Recs With Ryen Russillo | The Bill Simmons Podcast

Episode Date: March 30, 2020

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to revisit the 1996 NBA draft, discuss the mid-'90s NBA subplots and some of the legends of the '96 draft class (4:00) before redrafting the top-14 lottery picks (44:30). Finally, Bill and Ryen answer some mailbag questions, make quarantine entertainment recommendations, and more (1:50:38). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Fast 7, also called Furious 7. Fast and Furious 7. Remember that movie? The most emotional movie for guys of the last 20 years. Shea Serrano and I are doing that one. You'll be able to hear that one on Monday night. We also have a whole bunch of podcasts coming for the Book of Basketball podcast.

Yeah, season two. Mainly out of boredom and the fact that we couldn't figure out anything else to do from a content standpoint. We are going to redraft a bunch of basketball drafts, an idea that goes way back to, and I remember doing this in Grantland in like 2014. We've done it in the ringer a couple of times, but what the hell else are we going to do? So we're doing that. The first one is coming up in a little bit with Rosillo.

We're doing the 1996 draft, but all of them will be running on the Book of Basketball podcast. So subscribe to that or refresh your subscription if you hadn't done it already. Last thing I wanted to mention, the World Central Kitchen is doing a ton of good stuff. They're making sure that people can eat. They're trying to take care of restaurants and chefs.

And you can go to wck.org slash chefs for America. Check out all the stuff they're doing there. They also did something really cool for the people in LA. Feeding the frontline fighting COVID-19 in Los Angeles, which they have a charity GoFundMe page. If you go to my Twitter feed, I donated a100,000 to this because the stuff they're doing, I love for a couple reasons. One, they're trying to incorporate food from the restaurants to try to get them some business and keep them afloat. But more importantly, they're trying to feed 450 hospital workers in ICU and ER units and six hospitals in the LA area,

all those hospitals making sure that they could potentially have lunch and dinner while also taking care of the restaurants as well. I hope this is something that catches on in other cities. Again, look, you have the means to do whatever you can do. I think it's super important to try to keep our businesses and our restaurants and all of these different things going in any possible way that we can do it. So you can check all of that out. I was happy to help and hopefully you can help too. Coming up, Priscilla first, our even better friends from Pearl Jam. All right. Sundays with Ryan Russillo.

You know, I was going to save this part of the pod until later and do a bunch of current event stuff first, but I'm the kind of guy, if I have a present, I just want to give it to somebody. Like, it was the same thing when I got engaged. I was supposed to get engaged with my wife at dinner. I had the ring the night before. We're in my basement, and I end up just kind of just saying, fuck it, and I gave her the ring the night before we're in my basement. And I ended up just kind of just saying, fuck it. And I gave her the ring the night before I was supposed to, I I'm a guy who likes to hand out

presents. This is a present. We are redrafting every single NBA draft from 96 on starting today on this podcast. And then we're going through, we're going to run all of them on book of basketball, but one of them is going to be on Rosillo's this already banked 97 98 99 where solo was on a couple of them and uh and now we're doing this one and uh i i didn't have to twist your arm to do this i'll just say that this is this is one of my favorite ones i mean all the different storylines of this though but you know how it's connected to you know larry Brown coming to Philly the year after this, Cal being with New Jersey and the whole Kobe storyline, Patino and the back and forth of Larry Brown and that whole story. And then Patino comes in the next year and all the money that

those guys were pulling down at the time was astronomical. Then Patino's contract was crazy, but all of that stuff is connected. And when you go through this, Iverson was clearly the number one guy. But when we redraft this, redraft this for real, I wanted to go first. Because the number one is very obvious with Kobe. But there's a real question of how far down should Iverson go? How far behind some of these other guys? Or does he automatically go number two? Because some people listening to this were like, look, Kobe won, Iverson too. And then the rest of the conversation, I'm not sure that that's the case. And the fact that

it felt like the GMs were all on Adderall that night and couldn't stop calling each other and making trades. Because you sent me that text. This trade is absurd how loaded it is. And then some of the guys, you even forget where they're in it. So it wasn't just this headliners. There's some real depth in this one too that holds up historically. Yeah. So we picked 96. It's one of the two iconic drafts ever, along with the 1984 draft.

It's either the best draft ever or the second best draft ever, depending on what you favor. But it's also a fascinating point with basketball because college basketball still feels like college basketball. You still have guys staying for two, three, even four years sometimes. You still have the big coaches. The audience is still there. People still love it. And the product's really good, but you can feel things starting to shift. And it shifts the year before when KG goes right from high school to the NBA. And in this draft specifically, you have Kobe's a high schooler. Nobody has a feel for what that means, where he should go.

He's going to all these workouts. He's knocking people's socks off. And yet there's a real hesitation. It's not much different than KG the year before where he falls to five. And even though people are like, well, talent wise, this guy's probably the best guy. Joe Smith goes four picks ahead of him. But you, so you have that. The one and done stuff is really starting at this point.

Antoine wins the title at Kentucky and just comes out. He's, he's, he's just done. That's it. He's, he's ready to go to the NBA. He's 19 years old, ends up going sixth in this draft. But these worlds are colliding. College basketball is really about to change. We don't fully understand that yet. We still have a lot of history with a lot of these guys. And within probably four years, college basketball just kind of starts to turn into something else. It's not

the same kind of talent pool. It all starts with this draft. What else do you remember about 96, just from a big picture standpoint? Okay. So the KG stuff the year before is probably one of my favorite things in that we do this, we do this deal where it happens a lot in college sports, but I think it's overall just in this, in this way, we navigate through things when things are new, when things are different and it's not the norm, we're like, well, wait a minute, you know, what are they doing? Like, I don't really like this. Um, I remember in the eighties, if a kid left after a sophomore year, you're like, what's wrong with this guy? Like, who's he think he is? And all of this stuff,

like, oh, he might not be ready. And it's like, it's not, you're not drafting to be ready. You're drafting for what somebody could be. And this is, as you said, it's part of that transition, the media. And it's not just media sports fans, and sometimes selfishly college sports fans. This isn't just a ridiculous, um, pattern, but people seem to care about other people's education levels way more than they should, especially when they're people you're never going to meet. So when KG was going to jump straight from high school and really we decades removed from guys doing it before, it's like, who does this guy think he is? One of my favorite lines that I repeated a million times

was Mad Dog, Chris Russo doing radio. And I would listen religiously to he and Mike and the dog. And he's like, well, maybe KG should just play the home games and not go on road games. And you're like, wait a minute. But this was like, he was challenging things. So, but that time it was like, well, at least KG is like a seven footer and he's a big man because if we've ever had it happen before, you know, Moses Malone, some others, it was going to

be a big man that would do it. And for Kobe to come into that year's draft in 96 and be a perimeter player, it was immediately met with resistance because we didn't have access to any of these legendary workouts. The only people that really knew how good he was were either himself, his family, or the people that got him these workouts. And yet he still almost goes outside of the lottery because it was just hard to think. Right, right. And honestly, the way he got traded, we'll go through all that kind of stuff. It was all kind of navigated with agents.

I also think too, that's important. Agents at this time, I feel like are far more powerful with positioning who goes where in the draft and what happens and scaring teams off. I think the agents in the 90s had more power when it came to the draft than they do today. And there's real resistance to all of this at the time. And that's the hardest thing to explain. I think if you watched a Fab 5 documentary that we did for, it was not really a 30 for 30. It was for ESPN. It was that weird stretch when we were making 30 for 30s,

then we're calling them. I still count as a 30 for 30. I watched it with my son recently because my son just knows Jalen from the guy who's come over to my house and the guy who's my friend. And he was like, was Jalen a good basketball player? I'm like, yeah, Jalen was like an icon. So we watched that Fab Five thing and you can really feel it in that.

And I highly recommend that as a rewatch for people where five freshmen starting was inconceivable. Freshmen carrying themselves the way they did. There was like this real sense with the old school college basketball community that they were losing control of this thing where it's like the NCAA, college basketball, college football, all of it, we're in control. These kids are playing for us. And starting with that Fab Five, things start to flip and the whole infrastructure is now in danger. And it's all leading to this 95. And

then especially the 96 draft where it's like, all right, now these kids are going to use you just like you're using them. They're going to leave after a year. They might not even go to college anymore. When we were, when I was growing up, it was Moses Malone and Bill Willoughby. You always heard those two, the guys in the mid seventies, Moses went straight to the ABA out of high school. Uh, Bill Willoughby the next year went to the NBA right out of high school, never really made it. And then Dawkins ends up on the Sixers and had a pretty good career. And then it just gets shut down until KG.

And there was still that weird attitude that you just mentioned and tapped into of people being really dismissive and untrustworthy of talented guys coming in too young. Like we were protecting them. I'm not sure what we were protecting them from other than just making more money right away. Right. You think about Patrick Ewing. He should have come into the NBA after one year at Georgetown. He met, he lost three NBA seasons because he's played because he played four years at Georgetown. Was it worth it? I don't know. Well, it was also the norm. You're right. But John Thompson's the type of guy that had so much power back then that Patrick Ewing wasn't going to leave early. I mean, Walter Berry left early and I remember being like, oh, okay, whatever. He's ready to go.

And Walter Berry is one of the guys at St. John's who I loved and thought, okay, well, he's going to be a star and didn't really work out. And then that would always happen because then I started to become like, Hey, all of these guys should bounce. The sooner you can get into the league and, and prevent them from finding out that you can't play, go ahead and do it. Um, and you'd be surprised, like you would think most GMs would have wanted there to be players in college longer to have more of a sample to watch them. But over the years, most of the guys that I talked to said, you know, you just should be able to come right out of high school. Would rather get him in here. And as far as like getting into trouble and that kind of stuff, I think

there's kind of like three categories of people. All right. There are kids that have it figured out and understand and are far more mature. And I think sometimes when you're a kid in high school, that's going through that kind of spotlight, like LeBron James was already mature beyond his years because he had been in the spotlight for such a long time that he kind of understood what was being asked of him. And if you think about like the blueprint for wanting to just nail it, at least how you're accepted socially, it's LeBron James. KG was one of those guys in a way too, not as out front of the face of a franchise, but KG just kind of knew how to make it work. Like he wasn't going to be a bad kid.

Where other people, like the other category is kids that are just bad kids. And I don't care if you're going to the pros out of high school or after one year of college, you probably didn't get into trouble because you left for the pros too early. You probably got in trouble because you were going to get in trouble

no matter where you were. And then I think there's the kids that do something wrong, adjust, and then never make that mistake again. So I, I, there, there was all these things always put on it. And I think we do this all the time, like in general stuff, like eBay. I remember when eBay was first announced and guys are like, wait, what? You're going to put something up for sale. And then people you don't know are just going to bid on it. And you're going to trust that they're going to pay for it. Well, that's fucking stupid. And it works. Like think about ride shares. Wait, so my daughter is going to, some guy, some asshole is going to drive over some stranger

in his Prius. He's going to pick my daughter up and he's going to drive her to the mall. Well, that's crazy. That's not going to happen. And then it ends up being this unbelievable, successful company that people try to emulate. So I think when it comes to sports, like even if you did it for the NFL and said, well, what if kids just came straight out of high school? Yes.

I think the first thing is you worry about the physical development of some of these guys, but is there any version of it where if guys came out of college football earlier that we would go, Hey, you know what? Wasn't a big deal is having a quarterback leave at first freshman year and get some pro coaching and become a pro a lot earlier than another two years playing at the college level. And that's where this started, these two years. For running backs, that would have been great too. So when I was a kid, the 1980 Celtics, Bird's first season, they lose to Philly in five.

But Red Auerbach had made this trade and they had the number one pick because he had traded Bob McAdoo and had this future number one. It becomes the number one pick in the whole draft. And they know this. Samson has just finished his freshman year at Virginia. And Sampson is the lost sure thing from the 80s and 90s. Basically, you're talking Shaq, Ewing, David Robinson, Hakeem.

Well, Hakeem, yeah. Hakeem was the first tanking article I ever read. I was in elementary school. And I was like, what are the Rockets doing? Like, I'm serious. It was crazy. And I was in sixth grade. So Samson was like the fifth of the sure things from the eighties and nineties.

And Red Auerbach wants him to come out for the draft and he's kind of lobbying for it. And people are getting mad at Red Auerbach. And, and, you know, there's this, people come back and I'm going, well, what's, what's nothing's more important than an education. And, and red gets in trouble. He goes, what's the kid going to become a doctor? Like he's an NBA player. He should come out right now. And he's trying to, you know, and it's a really good, what if, because if he comes out, Samson was just unbelievable. His knees started going on him in the mid eighties. But if you think about it, he spends three more years in Virginia and then ends up on Houston.

That's a lost year. Hakeem shows up by the time he, you know, it's five years later before he's on a decent team. He could have gone on that Celtics team with all that stuff. So anyway, we go through the eighties and basically to the KG moment. And that's when that part starts to flip. The other thing was Iverson was already really polarizing heading into that draft because he had gone to jail for the bowling alley thing. We did a 30 for 30 on that whole thing too. It was really messed up.

He got in. It was so messed up that he ended up getting as much trouble as he did for that specific incident. That's what I mean. He got completely railroaded. And then he eventually got pardoned. He, he, he got completely railroaded and then he got, eventually got part and he goes out, ends up ending up at Georgetown. And he's super fun to watch that one year in the big East back when the big East was still a thing. And at some point it becomes the

Allen Iverson draft and he's clearly going to go first. They don't win the title with him at Georgetown, but still really fun. And it's a loaded draft. And you mentioned all these, all these dumb trades that end up affecting the draft in all these different ways. I can't emphasize this strongly enough. If you don't think NBA teams knew what they were doing in 2019 and 2020, and if you think we had some bad GMs and dumb decisions,

let me take you back to the mid nineties. Cause it was a apocalypse of bad decision-making and a lot of them all crest in that draft. What was your favorite trade of all the trades I mailed you? Cause I had forgotten ML Carr actually won a trade with ML Carr heading into that 96 draft, I think that, I think, oh yeah, he did it the week before. He traded Eric Montross and the ninth pick to the Mavericks for the number six pick and a future pick,

which became the sixth pick in the following year's draft, which could have been Tracy McGrady if they had done the right thing. But that enabled him to move into number six and take Antoine. I think if they had stayed at number nine, I actually do think they would have taken Kobe. I know that's a

crazy answer. Wait, what? Based on what? I do. Because he worked out for the Celtics and they loved him. But they weren't going to take him at six. There's a picture of him online with him in the Celtics t-shirt. And they made a big deal after about how impressed they were by him. Six was too early.

Nine to 14 was kind of the Kobe range for this draft, right? I think anything earlier than that would have seemed obscene. But apparently the Nets were going to take him too. And they, Calipari, I think, Overruled whoever else or vice versa I can't remember the story Okay well a couple things You know Iverson was there two years right Because it was that showdown with Ray

I Look through this and go My man Lorenzen Wright there is seven to the Clippers Kittles Ends up going eight so that's the thing I spent the most time on today, going back over what Cal said. You and I both know this. There is no survival instinct stronger than the GM years removed from the decision that didn't go his way.

And Cal, what happens a lot of times is if somebody misses on somebody, they'll tell you how badly they wanted him after the fact, and then they blame everybody else for it. Let's take Cal at his word here. I'm not sure we should, but let's do it as a thought exercise. Okay, so they've got the eighth pick. They've worked Kobe out, I believe, three times, fairly Dickinson, and Calipari is losing his mind. And John Nash,

who was, um, I, this is one of the biggest dickhead moves I've ever done on a live show, but I was so upset when the Sixers traded Moses Malone and the number one pick that was going to be Brad Doherty. Cause I couldn't wait to see Barkley, Moses Malone and Brad Doherty.

Well, Barkley was your guy. Barkley was my guy. Barkley was my guy. So I was like, that's insane. Like Barkley's going to play small forward because he could have. And instead they traded Moses and Terry Catledge, I believe, for Jeff Ruland and Cliff Robinson, the one from the Harlem Globetrotters. And then they traded the pick for Hinson.

Right? Yep. They traded their Doherty pick for Hinson. Yeah. Doherty pick for Hinson. Now I'd heard years later, years, years removed removed that they wanted to get moses out of philadelphia um but that's what they ended up with they ended up with two bigs from the bullets and roy hinson who was always hurt all the time and so john nash was the front office guy at that time now national being the gm of the

trailblazers when they did the uh martel webster pick when they moved down. You know, there was the Chris Paul, Darren Williams draft, Deron Williams. And I was on a Philadelphia Comcast show where I was in Boston and Nash was on the panel back in Philly. And I was like, well, you know, whatever they were talking about,

I was like, it's not as bad as trading Moses in the number one pick for Hinson and some bullets. And everybody else on the panel was like, Jesus. So I later apologized to John and he was actually really good to me. Um, because later on, like I said, he was in the league, but the reason I bring that up is that Nash was the one going to Cal saying we have to take them. And Cal's like, I want to take them. Cal had dinner with Kobe's

parents the night before the draft. Okay. And Joe Bryant saying rookie of the year, all-star second season. And Cal's like, here I'm thinking his father's delusional. And at the same time, like he was totally right about him. And then Arn Tellem calls up and says, if you take Kobe at eight, he's going to play in Italy. You just took this gig. You're fucked. And Cal was like, look, I can't do this in my own building. I can't screw this one up. And then David Falk, who had all sorts of juice back in the nineties, you know that as well as anybody called and just kept hammering on the Kerry Kittles thing, the Kerry Kittles thing. And so the next day they have lunch. Calipari tells Nash,

I'm not taking Kobe. I'm afraid he's going to go. I can't get this wrong. You know, Arne is on my case about Kittles and Joe Taub, who was the owner of the Nets at the time, went to those two guys and said, I want John Wallace instead out of Syracuse. Oh, no. Yeah. So, you know, look, Cal clearly was enamored with him. But I always wonder when we start talking about stuff

that happened 20, 25 years ago, when it's a bad decision, like how often people will make excuses for something that went bad. It's pretty much human nature. Well, I remember the famous Celtics draft when they took Joe Johnson, Kedrick Brown, and Joe Forte, 21. I already know what you're going to say here. Well, they made a big point of being like, you know, that was Red's pick. Red really loved him. Red was like in his mid-70s at that point. He was, you know, the old guy. He was in the war room out of basically respect and that's it. Wasn't like he was burned in the game film at night. And I just have always refused to believe that Red was in control of one of the three first round picks at that stage of his life. You know, the way it was told to me, it was like he had a, he had a gun on everyone in the room. Oh yeah.

Well, you're taking Forte because of the relationship with the high school coach. Once Forte didn't pan out, that's exactly what happened. So here is the draft just for the people listening who don't remember this sequence. Philly is first.

They take Iverson. Toronto is second. They take Marcus Camby Vancouver takes Sharif Abdur-Rahim Who was a very, very highly regarded prospect And was a huge high school kid And that was actually a pick that made sense Stephon Marbury goes fourth to Milwaukee

Ray Allen goes fifth to Minnesota They end up flipping picks Antoine Walker goes sixth to Boston. And I remember at the time, didn't have a lot going on. I think that was the summer I started bartending. Really being convinced this was a six-person draft. So when ML, who was a moron, and the M stated for moron when he was a GM, when he trades up into the top six,

it was like, this is great. This is a six player draft. It's impossible to move into the top six when it's a six part draft, but they pulled it off. Clippers are seven Lorenzen, right? The nets are eight.

They take care of kiddos. Who's better than people remember. But man, that Kobe thing is tough. He just hurt man. I mean, kiddos thing was injuries more than anything else. Right.

Really? Dallas, uh, is tough. He just hurt, man. I mean, Kittle's thing was injuries more than anything else. Right. Really. Dallas is nine with Samaki Walker. Indiana takes Eric Dampier, 10. And then we have an incredible combo here. Golden State, 11. Cleveland, 12. Todd Fuller, Vitaly Potapiko. And then the next five picks.

Charlotte, Kobe Bryant. Sacramento, Paige Sto Bryant, Sacramento Pace, Paige Stojakovic, Phoenix Steve Nash, Charlotte, Tony Delk, Portland Jermaine O'Neal. And as you're going to see when we redo this draft, and I did in 2014, I wrote a whole piece. I redrafted every draft for 20 years for Grantland with the point being, this is a crapshoot.

Why do we throw ourselves into these drafts so much? There is no rhyme or reason to any of this. This is probably the all-time example where you have a couple of blue trippers that we knew were going to be good. And then some guys out of nowhere that become transcendent Hall of Famers. Steve Nash, 15th pick. Santa Clara. Do you remember where you were when you saw Nash get the hat and come across the stage?

Do you remember where you were in your reaction? Because I do. I just remember instinctively rooting for him for some reason. Because it was like, oh, there's a white Canadian point guard who just went 50. I just remember instinctively rooting for him for some reason. Cause it was like, Oh, there's a white Canadian point guard who just went 50. I knew nothing. But there was the other thing in 96 was we had no YouTube. We had no big boards. There was no, not even the person, two people before Chad Ford. There was really nothing. You just had talk radio and you had people going, I, I really like, uh, Antoine Walker. had people going i i really like uh antoine walker

and i thought he was really good in the match madness and that was like our college basketball opinions back then we just yeah that's it i mean you you the internet wasn't and i i feel like we repeat ourselves on this you know whenever that comes up but it just unless you watch a santa clara game live you you didn't know what the hell was going on so at first you're like who's the intern you know what's going on here with Nash well we remember how much we would rely on the little clips after the guy got picked they would show right and I remember 20 seconds I went I saw his clips but like you know the NFL draft is always hilarious to me because you know going to that live maybe once and God bless

you if you do. And maybe if it's just, Hey, you and your boys guys week or weekend or whatever it is in India, but you have to admit even today, 90% of the guys being announced, you haven't watched one fucking snap up. Okay. And so what you do is you talk yourself into, because of a article you read or a clip that you see some defensive linemen or some guard. And really all you want is just fantasy guys. So you can have fantasy guys from your favorite football team. to sit there and start watching guard film going, eh, there could be a couple of guards available at 20, but that's what we were doing. We were blind in 1996. And then I was, I was back home that summer. I was at a buddy's house. I was like, look, I don't care what the plan is tonight. Like I'm watching the draft and then I'll meet up with you guys after.

And they were like, you're seriously going to watch this whole, I was like, of course I'm going to watch this whole thing. And, uh, his clips, when they fired him up,'m like whoa like who's this guy where's he been hiding but it still seemed you know like steve nash really going to be that good it just was such an unknown and to see his clips it was just you know i was in college still and i just went wow like i wish i had seen this guy play i love the draft my entire life i remember when they did not televise the draft. What year was that? So I remember there's, I'm going to say early eighties. I think they started televising it

somewhere in the early eighties. But I remember one year, the Celtics had a couple of second round picks. One of them was Tracy Jackson. They took from Notre Dame. But I remember listening to that draft on the radio because it wasn't on TV. And it's one of the local sports stations or radio stations was just running it. And it was like, with the 31st pick, the Celtics take Tracy Jackson. And then at some point, they realized they should start televising it. And in general, they realized what they had stumbled into around the Samson, Hakeem, Ewing era. So before the Ewing thing, that was when they added the lottery. They at some point realized that there was a televised spectacle that should be happening,

which really wasn't much different than football. I don't think football was showing the drafts either until 82, 83. And that's cable is the reason we started having televised drafts. But I loved it immediately. I used to watch them, used to go over to my dad's house. Then eventually when I started writing, I would do draft diaries for my old website. But even before that, we would be talking about the draft for days. And the reality was there was no information and you were talking out of your ass 90% of the time

with all these guys. Now we're only talking out of our ass 50% of the time. all these guys now we're only talking out of our ass 50 of the time i remember going back and researching some of that stuff and that was a that was a 10 round draft like they would do 10 rounds and red arback would take like whoever went to holy cross he would take his plumbers cousin and i remember years later after you realize this, because as a kid, I don't know how often this ever happened to you. It happened to me very rarely, but you would go, oh, you know, because my father was a carpenter, builder, whatever. And we would go and work on some of these people's houses. And then I remember this one place we were doing a deck and the guy was probably on the

vineyard summer house. And like, well, you know, uh, Tom here was actually drafted by the Celtics. And at that point, like as a little kid, you go, oh my God, you know, like what's Larry Bird? Like, are you a millionaire and all these different things? Right. And then as I got a little older, I was like, yeah, but what round though?

Did you like, did you play at Merrimack or something? And you were just like a local 10th rounder and never played. And the guy was like, yeah, that's exactly, exactly what I was. Yeah. That was, I just, I rule it like, Hey, he was drafted by the Celtics. I'm like, yeah, but like the fake pick. Cause you were a local kid. Like, don't tell strangers that.

They used to do the last seven rounds. They would just take kids from Brandeis, Holy cross. Yeah. That's what I mean. Boston university. Yeah. That was the move. Yeah.

10 rounds. Think about that. 223 kids were drafted in a 23-team league in 1981. So I listened to the 1981 draft on the radio. The Celtics had the 23rd pick in the first round. They took Charles Bradley, who could dunk, and that was it. Second round. Wyoming.

Tracy Jackson, 25th. Another miss. And then... Are we going to start doing third or fourth round misses from 81? No, then Danny Age, 31st. Oh, there we go. And I remember on the radio, they were like, he might play baseball. But you know, Reds had some success.

John Havlicek almost played football. It was like one of those... Nobody knew anything. They didn't know what was wait a minute did they reference the other guy who played pitch for the braves who was oh gene conley that was another one yeah yeah like he took conley 400 years ago well you had in the 80s you would just have red just making these trades where he knows kevin mckayle is going to be better than joe barry carroll and trades back two picks but

then picks up the number 13th pick as well. He's like, yeah, we'll give you number one. And they're like, cool, we'll have the number. And people are just getting pillaged. By the 90s, people are still getting pillaged. But this, I'm going to read all the trades for the listeners because there are some classics in here. So draft night, Bucks trade the rights to Stefan Marbury

to the Timberwolves for Ray Allen in a future first round pick. I would say the Bucs won that one. I mentioned the Mavs Celtics trade. Here's another one. This is one where everybody who loved college basketball knew Jalen Rose was going to have a moment in the NBA. There was just, he was getting buried in the nuggets.

I never gave up. He was just too he was getting buried in the nuggets. I never gave up. He was just too interesting of an offensive player and always was better in big games. And it was just hard to believe he wasn't going to make it the Pacers trade the number 23rd pick along with Mark Jackson and a getting old Ricky Pierce to the nuggets for the 10th pick and Jalen Rose and Reggie Williams, who was a former top five lottery pick.

So that was a steal. Is that Georgetown, Reggie Williams? Yeah. Yeah. So then you have this other trade where you have

two summers ago, the Magic trade, a future draft pick and Scott Skiles to the Bullets for the 42nd pick. So they're trying to clear cap space for Horace Grant.

So the wizard somehow ended up with the 11th pick, but not for long because they traded that with, uh, two other first rounders and Tom Gugliotta for Chris Weber in 1994. So you have all that in there. I met Goose. He's a nice guy. And then you have,

they also traded the number 12 pick for a fairly washed up Mark price that year too. So the bullets went from having the 12th and 13th pick to no picks. And then you have a couple other ones. The heat traded the 16th pick in the Alonzo morning trade when they traded, uh, when they traded for Alonzo morning, the Pistons traded the number 18th pick with Dennis Rodman for the 26th pick

and Sean Elliott 1993. So that one moved. And then, uh, we have a Kevin Willis and the 19th pick for Steve Smith and Grant long trade from two years earlier. But then my favorite one, the heat in September 95 sent the 19th pick and $1 million to the Knicks

for the right to hire Pat Riley. I would say that was a great trade. Yeah, yeah. You're going to have the right guy. You'd do that again, right? The Riley-Knicks thing was crazy. That's its own podcast. Contentious.

Yeah. And then New York fans were really, really hurt and angry. Rat Riley signs everywhere. Is it rhymes? Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah. Okay, so we're going to redraft, but wanted to mention a couple of things.

I ranked... I did this in the Grantland column. I'm just going to keep it here. Five-star system for how good the player was. So super duper star. You have to be like basically a Hall of Fame, Pyramid, Pantheon guy. That's five stars. All-timer is four stars.

Franchise guy is three star. All-star is two stars. Quality starter is one star. So this draft had a super duper star, Kobe Bryant, five stars. It had two four-star guys, Nash and Iverson. It had a three-star guy who's almost like a three and a half star,

Ray Allen. Two two-star guys, Jermaine O'Neal and Ben Wallace. And then four one-star guys, Dvakovic, Camby, Marbury, and Walker, which means they were, you know, Marbury, and Walker, which means they were, you know, starter borderline all-stars.

And then Zydrudis, Elgazkis, Sharif Abdur-Rahim, and Kerry Kittles, who were all like really serviceable starters. So 13 guys who not only made valuable contributions, but got paid. And you mentioned this earlier. This draft class made so much money. It was probably the biggest windfall of any draft class up to that point, right? I mean, what Kobe did, like he was making 24, 25 when the second highest paid player was making 18

or 19. So Kobe got hooked up in this deal. Jermaine O'Neal made a ton of money here. Camby still played 17 years. Nash played 18. Ray played 18. Ray had like two max deals, I think, in there. Yeah. I mean, Nash, who did incredibly well for himself, wasn't one of the top five highest paid guys in this class. I added up the math. Kobe Iverson, Jermaine O'Neal, and Ray Allen made more than $825 million combined. Just playing basketball. Just in salaries. They hit it. Say that again?

Kobe, Iverson, O'Neal, and Ray Allen. Just those four guys made over $825 million combined. And this was the era when, in 99, when they had the lockout, all of a sudden, anybody who was three years into the league could just redo their contract and sign some six-year giant deal. You had Marbury, Abdurahim, and Anton Walker

all sign max deals. Camby, Ogoskis, and Nash, multiple big money deals. Kittles made over $55 billion, which I didn't realize.

So, just money all over the place that really hasn't been topped. The other thing I did here was I created a Simmons crapshoot rating called The Scrap to see just how much of a crapshoot each draft would be. So we're going to be using that going forward. This was a 10 out of 10. Just for like when you look back and you just go, wow,

what the fuck happened in that draft? This is a 10 out of 10. I think we're going to do the 2000 draft together in a couple drafts, which I think both of us are excited about. That's like a minus 10 out of 10. It's like a what the fuck happened and also why you're confused the entire time.

Do you want the first pick or the second pick? I want the second pick. All right, we'll do that. Let's take a break. Then we're going to redraft the 96 draft. Hey, as the novel coronavirus pandemic escalates in the U S public health

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Visit roe.co slash coronavirus on your phone. That's roe.co slash coronavirus on your phone or laptop to complete a free online assessment or just learn more. If you're worried that you might be experiencing symptoms, go to roe.co slash coronavirus to start your free assessment today. roe.co slash coronavirus. Okay. A couple other subplots just to put people kind of in the headspace of where some of these teams were in 96. So you had Philly, who had just traded Barkley four years before, and their trade's catastrophic.

And they bottom out. They have a chance to rally the following year. They take Sean Bradley. It's the second pick. How did you feel about that in 94? What was your Sean Bradley take? Not strong. It just, you know,

just, it didn't even make sense at the time. Like it was one of those, it was a little Ola Wakandi-ish. You know, it was like, oh, so you guys are going to do that. It reminded me of, uh, the Hashim Thabit draft in 2009, where there were all those awesome guys in that draft and Memphis had the second pick. And it was like, they, they, they're serious. They're going to take the beat.

And all of us, all of us were like, really? You're not really going to do that, right? That's not really going to be the move, right? And then they actually did it. That was the Sean Bradley thing. Do you remember who was one in three in that draft?

In 92? It was whatever the Sean Bradley year was. What was that? 93 or not? I thought that was 94. You probably know it better than I do. Let me go back. I thought it was.

I wasn't doing diaries then. I wasn't either. Because I remember Glenn Robinson. I remember that contract dispute and how, yeah, it was Weber and then Penny and then Mashburn. And then Isaiah Ryder, who was one of the greatest interviews ever. Do you remember that NBA on NBC on Sunday? I think it was 96, 97 season. And he sat down and did a one-on-one with somebody.

And he was like, yo, I kill, and then fill in the blank. I was like, why do you think you're better than? He's like, oh, and I'm just going to pick a name here. He'd be like, I kill Glenn Rice. And it wasn't Glenn Rice, but it was like the most vicious I've ever seen a player like in a one-on-one

where it's like normally like, hey, we, you know, today's game, Isaiah Ryder, their wing, the JR Ryder later on. He's like, no. Yeah, Weber won, Bradley too. I think that he seemed to beat things perfect because he's not the number one.

And you always, you always can tell like, I finally figured this out later on. But when you ask a school about their own guy and they're like, oh, you know, that's what kind of stuff I was getting from Yukon about the beat. I was like, what do you guys think about the beat? They're like, well, you know, if he does this, this, this, this, and then 20 things later, you're like, oh, you guys think he sucks.

All right. Got it. That was one of those where you just had to watch him run in person for five seconds. Like, oh, you're going to run that way? There's no way. It's not happening. You're running like you're wearing concrete sneakers. This wasn't happening.

So Philly, my point, they really needed the Iverson thing. Because they have the combo of the trading Barkley and then the Sean Bradley thing. And they are just rock bottom. Toronto, new franchise, new blood, just looking for anybody good. Isaiah is still running them at that point. Vancouver expansion team, they're just happy to be there. They'll take anybody good.

The Minnesota-Milwaukee thing was interesting. So Milwaukee gets the better player. I felt that way at the time. I think we all thought Ray Allen. Yeah, I just thought Ray Allen was, I the better player. My, I felt that way at the time. I, I think we all got Ray Allen. Yeah. I just, I just thought Ray Allen was, I just loved him. Uh, I just thought he was a sure thing. I not, not at the same level of how I felt about KD or somebody like that, but very rarely in college where you just see somebody in college, you're like that. I would bet my whole life that that guy's going to be good at professional basketball. Ray Allen was so clearly going to be really good. The Marbury thing, he had the higher

upside, but the family stuff was even worrisome back then. He had had a really hard life. And I thought there were some subtle red flags with him, as much fun as he was to watch at Georgia Tech, but they wanted to put him with KG and try to do the whole Stockton Malone thing. Then you have the Celts at six, delighted to get Antoine Walker. And then after that, and the Celts are also coming off the Len Bias, Reggie Lewis combo and just the fall of the Boston Garden. This is the first real sign of hope that they've had in a while. And then you go through the rest of them that the nets one is probably the most interesting one at eight,

but we talked about the reasons for that, where they're doing this rebirth thing with Calipari and you know, the nets had, they had lost draws in Petrovic. They'd had a nice little run there where there was a little something with Derek Coleman, Kenny Anderson and draws in. And then all those guys are gone in two years and that's a complete reboot for them too. So there's a, this is a really kind of rough time for the league because you had the 96 Bulls going 72 and 10. Part of the reason they went 72 and 10 was because there's so many bad teams because the league had overexpanded.

The quality of play was not that good. They're moving the three-pointer line around. They can't decide where that should be. It's way too physical. It just, this wasn't like a great time for basketball. They needed this draft is my point. Yeah, and then the rest of the guys, Dampier, as you mentioned, 10,

after Smoky Walker, Todd Fuller, Vitale, and then Kobe, Peja, and then Nash is just outside of it. I even sneaky like Tony Delk a little bit who played 10 years in the league. So do you want to go first then? Yeah, I'll go first. First pick. The way we decided to do this,

there's a little bit of a time machine element. Like, do we draft for who we thought the team should have taken at the time? Or do we just take the best player and do it in that order? I think we should just go in the order of here's who we think were the best players going down to sending order. And then we could kind of talk. It's a lot like, just as an aside, you know, it's a lot like the rewatchables for me where I still don't understand what we're doing. But it's my third one. Yeah. Like third one, rewatchables for me where I still don't understand what we're doing, but it's like, yeah,

like third one, third redraft for me. I still don't know really what your rules are for this, even though it's your vision and some of these different rankings. I look at this as, you know, if you were starting franchises, who would you go with?

Not, that's how I look at it too. Did they have, did they have good guard depth in 1996? I agree. Different team. All right. So I'll take Kobe first. Cause they have good guard depth in 1996? I agree. On a different team. All right, so I'll take Kobe first because he's one of the 10 best players of all time.

And, you know, I didn't even really follow. There's no way he would have gone first. It would have been absurd, impossible, et cetera. But it is funny that Philly had the first pick in this draft. And he was playing there and he was in their backyard. But, you know, I wonder... That wasn't going to happen. There's no way.

No, I know. If they had taken Kobe Bryant number one over Allen Iverson, forget it. Even if they had taken him sixth, I think people would have been mad. But it's just kind of funny because once the high schoolers

started to have success, there is a world where five years later... No doubt. Somebody like Kobe could have gone number one in a draft. It was not happening in 1996. So anyway, I have Kobe Bryant

as the first pick. Now you're on the clock at number two for the sake of the redraft. Toronto had this pick. Okay, this is, I'm not doing this to get attention. I'm not doing this for any other reason than there's no way I would take Iverson here.

And I think 90% of the people listening are like, are you nuts? You have to take Iverson after Kobe. I don't think anybody would take Iverson over Kobe. I don't think it's that ridiculous. But Iverson, and I can go through all this Iverson stuff if you want to, or we can wait until they pick him, but I would take Nash. I think Nash, plugging him in to any scenario, he makes everybody better. He should have shot more.

Honestly, I always thought if he was healthier later on, and this isn't me pretending he's all of a sudden healthy, but he would have been an awesome two guard at like 20 minutes a game just hitting threes. But he just, you know, the back couldn't stay healthy. But his impact on a team was far more positive than Iverson's. And I would take Nash on our redraft. So I have Nash ranked higher on my Hall of Fame pyramid, and I'm with you.

I would take him higher as well. I love the Iverson. I'm actually in the super defensive about Iverson camp because I knew what's happened over the last 10 years. You could feel the seeds of it being planted last, uh, in the two thousands where as the future generations came and they had no idea what it was like to watch him play and see him, all the stuff that he brought to the table,

it was never going to translate to 50 years later. Oh, what is, what was this guy? What's going on here? This, the advanced metrics were never going to be his friend with all that said, I just would rather have Nash. And, you know, I think his teams were consistently more successful. He made other guys better. He could play with just about anybody.

And, you know, he, his peak basically goes from 98 through 2011. Iverson's peak it really kicks in in 98 and he has he averages 29 a game from 1999 through 2008 10 straight years, 29 a game it's weird he never had that second really qualified

all-star other than Carmelo when he got to Denver on the other hand, he played with a lot of good players who were kind of qualified to be second guys on a really good team. Like when they got to Kembe, he was the defensive player of the year.

He was still a top four center. He had Jerry Stackhouse, who eventually became a 30-point scorer. You know, it's not like he never played with anybody. I don't think it's like a T-Max situation. Right, but the difference is, is like T-Max style didn't make the rest of the roster think, like, what am I doing here?

Iverson style, like, they didn't get rid of Stackhouse because they didn't like Stackhouse. It's like, let's try something different. And yes, they tried the Larry Hughes thing, which we went over in one of the other drafts. They had Andre Iguodala there. I even really liked that Theo Ratliff group, but then Larry Brown's like, look, I can bring in Dikembe. So I'm going to go ahead and

do that kind of stuff. Van Horn was the other one they had. Van Horn was the second pick in the draft. He brought in these guys. So that first year Iverson comes in and this is the difference. And look, no one's trying to tell you that Iverson's LeBron, but I think that there's a lot of shortcomings here when you look at the overall career arc here. And I'm not trying to do the analytics, let's trash him, you know know the shooting efficiency and all that kind of stuff i mean the guy was that small playing like 41 42 minutes a game i think he played like 41 minutes a game for his career and he was still doing it at the very end um but when he go it comes into the league a bad team goes 22 and 60 you know what else is kind of weird i was looking at the sixers attendance

numbers during all this. They weren't as good as you would think they would have been. The Philly fans turned on that team pretty quickly after the 0-1 thing. I think that was going on across the board with the NBA, though. The late 90s were rough

because that was when the salaries went way up. The fans had a lot of trouble identifying with the players. The hip-hop influence was so strong at that point. And there definitely was a little bit of a disconnect. That's when Stern started

to put it in the dress code, the rookie stale. That was years later, though, after the Detroit and Pacers thing. No, I'm saying like the 98 through 02, there's a lot of tug-of-war between Stern and the players and just trying to get them

to be more personable to the fans and to think a lot about how they presented themselves. It was a very strange day. It was weird to go to the games back then. The Celtic fans didn't like Antoine Walker for two years. They did not like the Antoine shimmy.

Do you blame Ja Rule? Maybe. There was some weird societal stuff going on back then, though. Like you could definitely feel it. Okay, but I can only compare Philly to the other attendance numbers to the other 30 teams, and they are lower in total attendance than you would think. Like it was kind of weird. So look, bad records those first two years.

He gets to the second round in his third year, second round in his fourth year. Then they make the NBA Finals, and that's pretty much it, man. From 2002-2003 season, it's a six-game loss in the second round of the Pistons. He never got to the second round again. He never got to the second round again.

So I understand when you get Iverson, you get somebody that we applaud him for keeping it real. And that's awesome. We applaud him for kind of being anti-corporate, even though he was that. He did transcend. He was a smaller guy dunking on people. He was, you know, Newport News, the whole deal. Like, we get it.

But if you really break down, and I'm not even trying to do the analytic things here, you just had to play a certain style that was only his style, and it was far less successful than I think people ever want to remember historically. So I would actually take Ray Allen ahead of him in my draft, if you're not taking Iverson third.

So, it's funny. I had Allen ahead of Iverson in the hall of fame pyramid. I mean, I'm sorry. I had a Iverson ahead of Ray Allen in the hall of fame pyramid. I think, I just think he had a more meaningful career. The two things I agree with 90% of what you just said,

two things Iverson brought to the table that can't be taken for granted. And I wrote about this in my book when my thing about him was about when you get season tickets in the mail and you're just looking at the schedule and you're like, who are the eight guys I have to see this year? And it might be five guys. It might be seven. It might be nine. If you're doing it this year, if we had the NBA right now, you'd be like, you'd, you'd take the Laker game. You'd put a check mark next to that. You do Giannis, you do the Celtics. But if you're just talking about individual players, there's not many. Like I, I really like seeing Dame Lillard in person. Like you go on down the line and there's

maybe eight to 12 guys. Iverson was always on that list for me, no matter how his team was doing. I thought he was an incredible guy to see in person because he was really probably five, nine and a half, five, 10. The way he carried himself, how much he played, he never came out. He carried himself like he was a seven foot, 300 pound guy and he wasn't. So I would say that for that. And then the other thing is the respect the other guys had for him, which I think matters. I think when you talk to some of these guys, which both of us have had the privilege of doing, and sometimes it's eyeopening who they, who they go out of their way to gush about. I think Kyrie was like that in the 2016-17 range

where the other players were almost like his biggest advocates. And I think with Iverson, the other players, regardless of whether the win totals or the other stuff backed it up, they really respected him. And even in the All-Star game, he was always in crunch time. It always made sense that he had the ball at the end of the game no matter how many good players were on the floor. So it's a really weird career that I almost can't compare it to nobody like him. Now you could even say it would be like if Damien

Lillard was the toughest guy in the league and, but his team wasn't even as successful as it is now, but it felt like they were more successful. That was Iverson. I have no counter to that. I think the best thing you could do would be Jordan without rings. Like if Jordan just, you know, if Jordan couldn't get past the Pacers in the second round for whatever reason, but that it's just impossible.

It's impossible to even try to do that. Like, hey, imagine a 20-year arc of Jordan without success. I mean, as I say it out loud, it out loud, it's impossible to ever envision that. But I think all the pro Iverson arguments become about a lot of the stuff that doesn't equate to winning. But I have no counter. Like, I made sure I got a chance to go see him because I wanted to see him.

That Iverson-Ray Allen showdown is one of my favorite baskets. It's probably one of my favorite sporting events ever, just being in the moment with my buddies in college and watching those two go out at the biggest tournament. I absolutely love it. So this is not an anti Iverson thing. This is strictly a, he did not care about winning.

He did not approach the game in a winning way for me to pass on somebody like Steve Nash. And I think Nash was definitely the right pick. I cannot figure out what the ceiling was on an Iverson team. We saw it in 2001. They made the finals. The East wasn't that good. The East wasn't that good. And I

gotta be honest, I don't think the right team made the finals that year for the East. I thought the Bucs were better. Milwaukee, I did too. Yeah, and you watch those games and it's kind of hard to believe the Bucs didn't beat them. The Bucks just seem like more of a finals team. Iverson had a better career. He was a more memorable player.

If I'm drafting this, if I'm a GM and I have time machine access in 1996, I would take Ray Allen with the third pick because I'm getting him for 18 years. I'm getting this guy who at his peak, which he had a couple of really nice ones on Milwaukee, was the alpha dog on a Bucks team that almost made the finals, but just in general was one of the

most efficient guys we've had in the last 25 years. I can put him with anybody. He goes and has a second life with the Celtics. Then this third life with Miami. And I was just watching a game six, 2013. I just think he's a safer bet. If I'm trying to win a title than Allen Iverson was. Now I didn't realize that at any point during Iverson's career, but now if I'm trying to win a title than Allen Iverson was. Now, I didn't realize that at any point during Iverson's career. But now if I'm looking back, if my goal is to win the title, Ray Allen is a better pick. He just is. So I would take Ray Allen third.

Ray's interesting in that you said he'd had these two versions. I think it's three versions. No, there is three. The Milwaukee version. Maybe it's four. maybe it's four, maybe it's four though, because I mean what he started doing, you know,

in Milwaukee, he's, he's 20 a game. The three point numbers are just crazy. Uh, I remember when I was doing that Celtics TV stuff for years and, you know, he first got there in oh seven Oh eight.

And I was working with Donnie Marshall who who knew Ray from the UConn years. And Donnie was a little bit older than him. And Donnie was a great guy to talk hoops with. And he comes back, he goes, man, he goes, Ray changed his shot. I'm like, Ray Allen changed his jump shot? Why would anyone do that? That's like DiCaprio deciding, I want to do spoken word. You're like, wow. So Ray did this little thing with like his hands at the end of it.

And, and Ray was right. Like Ray made this tweak to what already looked like the wettest jumper going. And he had this awesome Seattle stretch where he put up huge, he's 25, 26 a game. So when he came to Boston, oh seven Oh eight. And that was kind of the first piece when it looked like they were going to trade Paul, but age was always great and not trading peers just because it felt like, oh, the rest of the team isn't good. Ainge was brilliant with that, and I know it sounds stupid to say brilliant, but so many other people wouldn't do it and be like, hey, we're not any good. All right, well, this guy that isn't 30 that's really good.

Let's get rid of him. Other teams did that, and they add Ray to that for Jeff Green, which seems criminal because Ray's still at that point. You know, he'd had the ankles things. He comes in 32, but that led to KG and all that stuff. Ray sacrificed more with his approach to the game than the other two guys did. Now, I still think KG and Paul were better than Ray, and Ray then becomes this guy who's trying to figure out around him because he was a better shooter with the ball

and then found a way. I really think it took him a while to kind of get comfortable in that you're just not going to have the ball in his hands that much. And he found that with Miami because it was weird, too. Remember in Boston when he started to kind of lose his handle? Because he wasn't dribbling as much in Boston's offense, and then he just kind of lost his hand a little bit there. So, man, I wonder how mad people are going to get about this.

So you passed on Iverson for Ray but the analytics will tell you that Ray's behind only Kobe in like two or three of the categories well so I'm looking at this like not who is going to who's going to sell more jerseys and who's going to be more fun to have my team if I'm just trying to win a title, Ray Allen has to be the pick. You look at his numbers from 2000 to 2007. He is the most ahead of his time guy we've had in the last 30 years. He's averaging 23, five and four, his 45, 40, 89 percentages. He's shooting 40, 40 from three, but he's taken seven threes. And this is at a time nobody was taking, you know, if he took four threes a game, that was a lot. I think if you put him in the era that we're in now, he's one of the 10 best guys in the league every year,

that version of Ray Allen year after year is somebody you could build a franchise around. And I don't know, I, the longevity, I think, pushes it over the top to me. This guy was good in 1997. In 2014, he's still in the finals playing crunch time for that Miami team. We're talking 18 years. Iverson just flamed out a little too fast for me.

Iverson's career was basically over by 2009. Yeah. He hasn't played in a decade. Yeah. You know, he had that weird Memphis thing and then he closed it out in Philly just as kind of like a novelty deal. And remember he still wanted to play, but at that point too, like if you really want to dig in and all this stuff, and I don't know how far I don't really want to get sidetracked in here, but Iverson, if he played today with the off the court stuff, he'd be getting suspended from the league. So his career is effectively his last good year as a legitimately effective player is 2009. And I remember that I have this, it's in my archives. You can look it up.

Um, not you, but anybody out there when Denver trades, uh, Iverson to Detroit for billups and people are on TV going great trade for the Pistons. You know, you get Alan Iverson and I'm like, you, I'm sorry, but I'm going to basketball games and watching league pass. Like Iverson shot as a, as a perennial all star franchise guy, it's just gone. It doesn't have it anymore. So I think the fact that his kind of stretch was just shorter than Ray's, I think that has to matter. And the other thing I would ask, so if Iverson,

if Milwaukee beats them that round, which is really conceivable, and I think they should have. I really think the wrong team won. And I think that was one of the most poorly officiated series ever. How do we remember Iverson? If we don't even know, like no finals trips, I think he's thought about completely differently.

You're almost thinking, I'm trying to think who the football quarterback is that we would compare him to. Flacco? No, Flacco. No, that one is was nice I really think that 2001 like I used to always think LeBron deserves like a half a ring for that 2007

NBA Finals appearance because of what they did to Detroit like he'd only been in the league you know not even five years Detroit still you know they look at themselves as the bully Rashid's guaranteeing wins after every single playoff loss they kept losing and LeBron takes him out with that epic game in 2007 where it was the kind of the first like whoa what is this guy then they get smoked by the Spurs not a big deal same thing is kind of like a

Shaq Penny deal with Orlando going up against Akeem but that 2001 finals they get the first game against LA and they get mopped he He's gotten a lot of run at it. Like, I feel like I'm not saying people like, look, the Lakers are supposed to beat them. We've just gone through how bad we didn't think the East was that year, but it's, it's salvaged Iverson in a way where, you know, I, I got to read about Chris Paul sucking all the time because he can't get out of the second round. But Iverson as the lead guy, the undisputed lead guy for every team he was on until you know look the Denver thing was kind of he and back and forth and you're right by the time you get to Detroit it

was over uh he gets you I'm not saying like I you know I don't want to turn this in I'm sounding very anti-Iverson but I'm just saying like 2000 pro Iverson 2001 is so positive for him and I think that's the love that people have for him you know like it's never ever held against him that's kind of the only real playoff run that you had like the only one right well the other thing and again I I didn't want to rely on the stats too much because I really think it's important to mention how how larger than life he was at the time and what it was like to watch him in person. I just loved Iverson. But his stats, part of the reason his stats were

so impressive was he just played an incredible amount of minutes. If you go to his per 36 numbers, his per 36 scoring average is 23.3. His per, his actual scoring average in real life is 26.7. He played. So he was, as you said earlier, he's playing for his career. He played 41.1 minutes a game.

It's like, it's like he's Will Chamberlain. And it wasn't like he was getting any sleep. You know, right. It's true. He's up 24 hours a day. So if you look at his per 36, he's 23, 5, and 3.

He's 42.5% from the field and 31% from 3. And his stats really aren't different than all of Ray Allen's prime because Ray Allen's playing 35, 36 minutes a game, not 40. It's honestly not crazy to think Ray Allen is a better pick than Allen Iverson, because if you're trying to win a title, he's just a safer bet. You can put Iverson, you have to move your whole team around what he does with Ray Allen. He didn't have to do that. So I'm taking Ray Allen third. Uh, I, you know, you mentioned Ray Allen being ahead of the time. I was looking up. I looked at one of the years where he had like 7.78 attempts there.

A game from three, which is just, it can't express how monumental that is in like 0102. Eight players took 400 or more threes. Of course, like number one and number three were Twan and Pierce, which didn't even count because the beginning of, of the Patino Tuan Pierce thing was just gross with the amount of threes that those guys took. Like you think guys take bad shots. Now you think D'Angelo Russell or Zach Levine get a little aggressive every now with a three point attempt. You got, you got nothing on early Tuan. Um, yeah. So eight players, 400 or more attempts the past full season 18 19 43 players took 400 or more threes no one more than james harden who took 1028 threes and also 858 free throws so harden took

almost 1900 threes and free throws for a full season enjoy that that's pretty gross but nothing was grosser than watching a Kyle Lowry offensive foul mixtape that came out from so far this season. I think he has 47 charges taken. I counted 46 flops. I would rather watch a Joe Exotic sex tape

than Kyle Lowry taking charges. You know, I saw that tape floating around and I was like, I hope Priscilla doesn't see that. The Joe Exotic one? No, either. Yeah, the Lowry one, I hope Priscilla doesn't see that. Which, the Joe Exotic one? Either. Yeah, the Lowry one, I didn't even make it through it. I was like, you know what?

I'm going to watch this and then I'm going to count how many flops there are and then I'm going to tweet something really shitty. And I actually closed out of the video. I couldn't do it anymore. So you have Iverson fourth, right? Yeah. Yeah, let's not get ridiculous here. Yeah. Yeah. Let's not get ridiculous here. Yeah.

So Vancouver with Ray Allen and then Iverson with going to Milwaukee at four. And I know people are going to get pissed about the Iverson thing. I remember TNT did that redraft of the all-timers and Barkley took Allen Iverson first. And it almost caused a riot on the internet. People are like, what are you doing? Remember they were all drafted and they were all-time teams and it was a snake draft and Barkley had like the third pick. He took

Iverson and people were like, you've just ruined this whole exercise. And he's like, I don't care. Allen Iverson was great. And every television producer everywhere was like, how do we find the next Barkley? So with the fifth pick, which in the, uh, in the actual draft was Minnesota. There's two, well, there's three guys on the board just so for the people listening home,

we got Jermaine O'Neill, Ben Wallace, Paige Stachowicz, Marcus Camby, Stefan Marbury, even Anton Walker. All those guys are on the board. I am taking because this will be a recurring theme with these redrafts that we do. I watched Jermaine O'Neal be the best guy

on teams that could have won the title. And that matters to me more than anybody else on that list. I thought long and hard about Ben Wallace, but his prime just wasn't good enough. The Trevino Neal thing, really in the running for strangest

basketball reference page. He's on Portland for four years, not playing. Yeah, not playing, right? Remember, Patino was always trying to trade for him. Yeah, oh, every year. And he's just buried on these Portland teams

behind Rasheed Wallace, Sabonis, Dale Davis is on there, and they're not giving him any run. And people like us are like, he's being thrown, he was kind of like a Roddy Bubba type situation

where the trade asset of him was so much more valuable than if you actually watched him in a game. You're like, uh, but then he, then Indiana trades for him. Oh,

I guess they traded Dale Davis for him or as, as part of it. But then, then he became a really, really, really good player in Indiana there for a couple of years. And that Oh four series against Detroit. He's great.

I thought the Oh five year, the melee, he misses half the season. He's really good that year. Average 24 a game that year. I thought he was awesome in the Celtics playoff series that year. And I really liked that post melee Pacers team just in general. But I, for the amount of years he played and all that, I think he's the pick. So I'm taking him fifth.

What do you think of that? I love it because I had him, I think, higher than I thought I would when I went into it. But I'm with you. If you go peak Jermaine O'Neal, he's a really good player. I mean, he put up some massive numbers there with the Pacers. But you're right. He started 18 games those first four years. He played 10 minutes a game, 13 minutes a game,

nine minutes a game, 12 minutes a game when he was in Portland. And that was, you know, he was still kind of part of this fallout of the high school thing. And you'd just be like, oh, you know, look at this guy. And honestly, too, even though he was kind of this weird hybrid center power forward, that's what was so appealing about him, too,

was that he could face up a little bit, but he could still do some of that traditional stuff. And he would have been in his prime younger, a really nice player today because he was a really, I thought a pretty good athlete. Then he slowed down a little bit, but after that Pacers thing, I mean, it was over. Like his career was kind of like over by the time he was 29 and he still played another six or so years. So I don't mean to be harsh about it. Like he had a good year in nine, 10 in Miami at 31, but he's playing 28 minutes.

He's scoring 13 and 7, and he's just kind of a rotation guy at that point, even though he was somebody I still really liked. I liked it. I didn't have him that high, but I'm not anti-Jermaine O'Neal at all. So one thing with him that I didn't realize, he made third-team All-NBA in 02 and 03, and then he made he made third team All-NBA in 02 and 03.

And then he made second team All-NBA in 04. So for three straight years, he was a top 15 guy and a top 10 guy in 04. And I think he would have been a top 10 guy in 05 too if the melee hadn't happened. I also think this point can't be hit strongly enough. I really do think the 05 Pacers were the best NBA team that year. And now you could say, well, the reason they didn't win is because Ron Artest was a lunatic

and got into a huge melee and the seeds of it were planted during that fight that precipitated the melee and that team was going to blow up anyway. That team was, there was just too much craziness on that team. They never could have made it eight too much craziness on that team. It never, they never could have made it eight months. You can make that case, but that 05 finals was one of the

more unsatisfying finals. It never felt like those were the two best teams. The series itself wasn't that good. That Spurs team that won Duncan, it just was not like a peak Duncan performance. I think he was pretty banged up. I really think Indiana was the best team that year and he was the best guy in that team. So that's got to matter too. Yeah. But that was also that, that finals where we had some,

you know, 84 to 69 in game one. Indiana, Indiana liked that stuff though. They, they remember the year before the Detroit, they had like a 66 to 60 game or something. Yeah.

There's, there's worse ones to point out, which I do think we should do as a rewatchable. We should watch the worst playoff game in modern history. Like one of those games where it's 70 to 60 or something with the Pistons. No, I know the game. It was Celtics-Pistons because I went to it. 66-64 final.

I think there's another one. Stanford Steve hit me up with this. He said, I think there's some Knicks game where I forget who the famous guy was. He'd bet on the game, but he also done lightning on it. So you pay a penalty on how many points under, or you win over. And he had the over and it went like 30 points under. So I'll have to double check, because Stanford Steve checked in to be like, hey, you guys should do this. All right, so you got Jermaine O'Neal. I'm going to go ahead.

Five. So you're now on the clock at number six, which would have been the Celtics pick. I'm going to just tell Camby to take the Mass Pike in and be a Celtic. Camby played 17 years. Yes, I thought he was going to be better. You know the most points per game he ever scored was his rookie year with Toronto?

15 a game. That's the most he ever scored for a season. And he was double figures 12, 10, 12, 11. And he basically wasn't again until he got to Denver a little bit. He's defensive player of the year. I just felt like he did more at UMass offensively and that

when he got to the NBA, I don't know if it was because he was skinny. I don't know if it was strictly because of the roster development and the NBA has a way of kind of eating itself in that. Oh yeah. Right. Like as good as you were in college, like you have to adjust to us. I didn't think Camby was going to have to make that adjustment that he was going to be a good player, a role player. So I guess I ended up being wrong, but I was watching him.

He had 32 in that first game against Kentucky when Kentucky was number one. It was at the Palace at Auburn Hills. UMass was fifth. That UMass thing was weird for all of us that were from Eastern Mass because we're like, are we really rooting for Western Mass? But it was so much fun with

Cal, Lou Rowe the year before, and all those UMass guys. So I really thought that Camby was going to be able to do a little bit more offensively because he showed it at UMass, and then he just kind of became a very specific not a role player. That's not saying enough about him. He's a starter. He played for a long time, but I still thought there was a version of him that had a role player. That's not saying enough about him. He's a starter. He played for a long time, but I still thought there was a version of him that had a higher ceiling. After the break,

I'm going to read you all the trades Marcus Camby was ever involved in. Let's take a break to talk about one of my favorite companies, Roots of Fight. We have never talked about them on this podcast except for when they made a bunch of

ringer sweatshirts for us that were absolutely ridiculously great. Go to their website. You can find awesome t-shirts, sweatshirts, hoodies. They did a Black History Tribute thing with Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, Jack Johnson, and Jackie Robinson. You can pick by the sport, boxing, martial arts, wrestling, baseball, basketball, football. They have an incredible Julius Irving collection. I was on there this week and ended up buying a bunch of stuff. I love their XXL t-shirts to sleep in, like giant night shirts too. So anyway, I was getting a bunch of stuff and then they were

nice enough. They noticed my name and added a few things in there. And I was just like, you know what? Even though they keep it low key, they love word of mouth stuff. I got to shout these guys out right now. You can go to the store. It's 20% off with portions of all sales going to WHO for the, uh, COVID-19 response fund. But if you've never checked out this website, go check out the stuff that they have. And I got to say the, the t-shirts that they make and the hoodies they make are probably my favorite t-shirts and hoodies right now. Now, granted you're taking the advice of a 50 year old guy, but I'm telling you my son who's 12 years old, who's actually cool. He loves this stuff more than anybody. And they made the ringer sweatshirts, which were, we, we had, they made the ringer sweatshirts and the hoodies, the zip hoodies.

And at Grantland, we had a friend of mine at Nike, John Nako. What's up, John? He made, he made us these awesome Grantland hoodies that, those are two of the coolest things I own. So anyway, rootsoffight.com. If you're just online and you need it, you want to check out t-shirts, even just to check out the site and have fun

just zooming through all the different things they make. Go check them out. RootsOfFight.com. Back to the pod. Okay. Without further ado, every trade that Marcus Camby was in. June 98.

Traded to the Knicks for Sean Marks, Charles Oakley, and Cash. That was a great trade for the Knicks for Sean Marks Charles Oakley and Cash that was a great trade for the Knicks June 2002 traded by the Knicks with Nene

and Mark Jackson for Antonio McDyess Frank Williams and a second round pick 2008 traded by Denver with a 2010 second

to the Clippers for a second round draft pick. That was like the rare good Clippers trade because he was actually half decent that year and had some trade value. Traded in 2010,

February to the Blazers for Steve Blake. That was Willie Warren. Willie Warren. There you go. February 2010, traded to the Trailblazers. Steve Blake and Travis Outlaw had a nice little Blazers resurgence.

Then traded to Houston for Johnny Flynn, Hashim Thabit, and a second. Oh, we're not done. Traded to the Knicks for Tony Douglas, Josh Harrelson, Jerome Jordan, and a second. Then- Jorts. Traded to the Knicks with Novak, Quinton Richardson, and a second for Andrea Bargnani.

Side note, Steve Novak would be a max player in today's game. No question. So he was involved in a lot of stuff. I have a great Marcus Camby fact for you. He makes... He has the iconic lockout 99 playoffs run where Ewing gets hurt

and they're actually better off with Camby. They come back the next year, they almost make the finals again in 2000. Indiana beats them. He then makes the playoffs. One, two, three, four, 10 more times. First round and out every time.

Yeah, but the difference is between, like I hold the playoff stuff against you unless I really like you, then I'll find a way to spin it in my favor. But if you're the lead guy, it's kind of on you where it can be. I don't blame him for that. I'm just 10 straight first round exits. That's amazing.

Really, really. That might have to be near a record, right? 10 straight. If people say shit to Mello, Mello will be like, hey, you ever heard of Marcus Camby? Like, get off of my back. Because I always felt like the Mello knocks were like Mello. Every time you look at Mello's playoff losses when they're all the first round exits, they almost always lost the team that was better than them anyway.

True. So that's kind of a pro-Melo thing, but it just sounds better to be like, oh, he sucks in the playoffs. So do you have any problem with the Camby? Dude, I make a mistake. How do you look at the board right now? I have a Marcus Camby point

that's just for you. I'm going to lightly fry it in some sesame oil and give you some dipping sauce with it. And you can just eat it because you're going to enjoy it so much. Hold on. Hold on. Should I put on his jersey for this? You don't have to. It'll take two seconds. Marcus Camby ahead of his time. Yeah. If you take 1999 Marcus Camby and you move him forward 20 years,

he's like the perfect five. Yeah. I mean, Tyson Chandler is still making money. I think Marcus Camby would have been like potentially like really in demand.

Like if Capella ends up getting 14 million a year in a first round pick, I feel like can be, it was better than Clint Capella, right? I don't know. I think Capella was a product of Capella ended up being better than I thought he would be.

But Capella also was a massive beneficiary of heart, you know, because everybody's freaked out the whole time. Seventh pick. Um, this is tough. I had these guys. I had Canby, Wallace, and Staryakovic all huddled together. I guess I'm taking Ben Wallace at seven, undrafted, which remains incredible.

Yeah, because he was like 6'6 school Virginia. A way shorter kind of prime than I would have wanted. Chicago signs him away from Detroit. It's a big deal.

And within a year, he's kind of like, it's kind of like semi-luggage. They wouldn't let him wear a headband, remember? It's weird. But you could argue he was the best player

in the 2004 Pistons in that playoff run. He might have been the most valuable. I know Chauncey won the finals MVP. And I think it's hard to say who was the most important player on that Pistons team because one of the things that made them special was those five guys together and the way they complement each other and how good defensively they were. But Ben Wallace was an absolutely destructive player there for, you look at four straight, five straight years.

Jesus. dating back to Orlando, just completely blowing it and getting rid of him in the Grand Hill trade, just having no idea what they have or what they had. You go after that. He shows up in Detroit in 2001. And

from 2001 to 2005, he's 13 rebounds a game, three blocks a game, and one and a half steals a game. Like he he's his block steals there for half a decade. Our Hakeem, David Robinson, he,

you know, and in person, it was the same thing. Like it really did feel like he was the best defensive player in the league. Uh, the biggest defensive asset anybody had there for a while. He,

he held his own against Shaq in 04 when Shaq was really trying to go back into the wayback machine and really only had one great game against him. And I don't know. I mean, he brought so many bad things to the table. The free throw shooting was abominable. He was an offensive liability, but just figured out how to do so many different things. I would just rather have him than anybody else in this list. So there you go. I loved him. Yeah, the best version of him was unbelievable,

the way he could switch. He's listed at 6'9". I don't know. I don't even know, but it didn't matter. It was unbelievable watching what he could do as a defensive player. And that's what I really loved about that Pistons team is that you had Wallace who

could switch out to anyone on the perimeter like he just could. But then you had Chauncey who could switch and defend some power forward in the post. He wasn't going to give up because Chauncey was so damn strong and smart. And Tayshaun had length to at least challenge a little bit. And then Rasheed's there who could kind of be all over

the place. I mean, it was really an incredible roster, one through five of guys that, you know, just found a way to compliment each other. I remember, look, I thought when we were making fun of the idea that, you know, we liked some of my misses, Marcus Fizer being one of them. When I watched Wallace in his fourth year at Orlando, I liked him. I mean, he played 81 games that year. I go, you know who I always kind of like a little bit? But you're right. I mean, never cracked double figures. He ended up in the 30% in the free throw line.

It was getting awful. I mean, it was like he was flirting with 50 and then it got worse. And I remember Larry Brown, there's always a very good lesson too for younger hoop people down there. Like they were giving Ben Wallace some touches. Remember how weird that was when Oklahoma City would let Perk get the first offensive touch of every game, and he would get a play in the post, and you'd just be like, what are you doing? That was sort of just this thing that the Thunder always seemed to want to do.

Probably Westbrook wanted to do it, and everybody just had to listen. But Larry Brown, I'm serious. Larry Brown would talk about wanting Ben Wallace to get more touches. And I'd go, why would you ever do that with this guy? He's a zero on offense. But it was a really good point is that it sucks to just rebound and defend all games. So the more we can get him a touch every now and then, the more engaged he's going to be. So when there are plays run that aren't the best offensive option,

understand that there's a payoff to it if you have the right guy. And Wallace was that guy. So I, peak Wallace, I just loved. His first 75 playoff games for the Pistons from 02 to 05, he's 14 rebounds a game, 2.6 blocks, 2.0 steals.

And he's just a menace. And he barely, he didn't even crack 10ounds a game, 2.6 blocks, 2.0 steals. And he was just a menace. And he barely, he didn't even crack 10 points a game during that stretch. But he's one of those guys that if you bet against them, you know, if you're actually like literally gambled against the Pistons in a playoff game, I just hated going against him. I always felt like he was going to do the right thing at the right time. And you got, I got to say the Oh five finals, him and Rashid together, the job they did on Duncan. Duncan's never been treated like that defensively over the course of two weeks in his peak. Like he was in that, like they really, they really throttled him. So I'm

going seven. He goes to the Clippers, the number eight pick. This would have been the Nets. Who do you have? I also didn't. I should have mentioned Rip Hamilton in that group. Real quick on Wallace follow up. Would he thrive today or a liability? Because it's a tough answer. I'm not sure I have the answer. I think he's worse off now because. You can't play four on five offensively now with the answer. I think he's worse off now because you can't play four on five

offensively. Now with the spacing, I don't, I don't know where he would stand on the court. I mean, you'd almost have to use him. Like Philly was using Ben Simmons during those playoff games when they didn't know where to put him.

And he was just kind of circling around on the baseline. That's really the only thing you could do with them. Otherwise he would screw up, you know, he would either clog the middle or he would screw it. You could set picks with them, but nobody's going to guard him stepping off for a three or anything. I don't, I'm not really sure what you would do. I think he was in the right era. Okay. But that's the argument against, but think about the big guys that he had to defend at his size that he was giving up all the time.

And now if you look at how small the front lines are, I still think if you're good enough, you can get away with one guy. That's not offensive threat i mean the goal now is to put five guys out there to get your bucket but i think wallace would beat i i'm betting on prime wallace to find a way to abuse the other five in a size down league to maybe even get you a few more points just because he's dominating the board so much um so i'm not going to completely write him off because of spacing no i'm not writing him off either. I just think he was in the right era. I think the thing that would have really helped him was how many more

possessions and the pace of how people play now. I think he was so athletic that he would have loved that, right? Versus these physical things. Yeah, just getting up and running around with Draymond. Now you talked me into it. Maybe he would have been better now. Let's bring him in. Ben Wallace, come on in.

You're the eighth pick. Who you have Peja yeah you know there's an argument for Peja ahead of Camby ahead of Wallace oh yeah um you know Peja flirting you would know this probably better off the top of your head but what did he come in second in the MVP one year was it no but but he was or was he just in the conversation and i'm i'm not remembering the voting no he had he had a year was he first team all-nba he only made three all-star teams oh yeah oh four he was second team all-nba and yeah he was he fourth in the 2004 mvp is that possible i thought there was yeah he was way up there. Yeah. Our 2004 MVP ballot, Kevin Garnett first, Duncan second, Jermaine O'Neal third, Peja four, Kobe Bryant five, Shaq six, Ben Wallace seven.

Saying Shaq out loud sixth just sounds fucking stupid. Well, that was the year when he- I know, but that was right. It was after everything had kind of calmed down, but I don't know. It's one of those Shaq MVP things. So it's funny. Peja was another little ahead of his time guy. Never took seven threes in a season. Year after year, starting in 01,

he's shooting 40% from three. He has basically an entire decade until 2009 of shooting 40% from three. From 01 to 08, 41% from three, taking almost six a game, 20 a game. A guy who I think if he's playing now would have been so much more dangerous and so much more fun to watch.

It's hard to think of him without thinking of him bricking that shot in Game 7 against the Lakers when he just had both hands around his neck. But he rebounded at least a little bit from it. Yeah, big-time numbers. And he was huge. Like, this guy was a guy that could handle. I mean, he's listed at 6'10".

You know, I don't know. I'm going to shave an inch here. But he never felt like the one. You never felt like, okay, that's who their best player is. We go back to the beginning of the Weber stuff and how good that Sacramento team was from a talent standpoint,

but he put up some massive numbers, man. For somebody we never think of as the key franchise guy, you're right. Those middle years there, this is unbelievable. This is the eighth pick of this draft, and this is a guy that's still available. I'm going to lightly

fry another great point and give you a little more dipping sauce with this one. Is he Clay with no PR? Whoa! I don't think I responded well enough to your fried appetizer thing

on the Kambi thing. I just was sort of blown away by the whole deal and I was kind of maybe just saying I want to change into that jersey because I was debating a tank top for the Zoom anyway.

But, yeah, what's... He probably handled that ball a hell of a lot more than Klay did. That has to be because Klay, that's the beauty of Klay. He doesn't dribble. He was ball a hell of a lot more than Klay did. That has to be, because Klay, that's the beauty of Klay, he doesn't dribble. He was just as good of a three-point shooter as Klay was.

He was actually, you could run entire offenses around him. I don't, I actually think if Klay was on a bad team, you could have run offenses around him, but they were weirdly similar, like what their skill sets were. And Klay, I think, you know, hits the lottery and ends up with Steph. I think if Peja had been on a team like that,

we would have had one conversation about him over the last 10 years. When was the last Peja Starakovic conversation anyone's had? It's never happened. Yeah, right. I forgot he was in New Orleans for four years. He also had a very, very sneaky. Nobody remembers this 2011 Mavs. Big, big brother to Dirk kind of thing.

Did he play in the playoffs for them? I'm going to look. Oh yeah. Look at that. He's playing seven, playing 18 minutes a game for the 11 Mavs in the playoffs oh wait that's right no no yeah I remember that yeah nobody nobody remembers that though

he's never mentioned it's like oh remember when Peja got his ring because the whole collection of those guys was that whole 11 Mavs team is just so weird because of you're like wait a minute who's because it was you probably argue the least talented

team, I don't know, at least, yeah, of the last 20 years, least talented team to win a title? It was certainly the only team that only had one great guy to win a title. Yeah, I mean, it's Kidd. Jason Terry. Terry.

Marion. Chandler. Terry. Marion. Chandler Marion. Chandler. Great role player. Yeah, Peja. Yeah. How about that? And Roddy Boobwa, the untouchable Roddy Boobwa.

The asset. All right, ninth pick. This normally, we're only going to 14. Ninth pick was Dallas. Marbury has officially fallen far enough. That guy was a huge asset. I remember when he ended up on Phoenix finally after the

kid trade. Really, really enjoying him and Amari together. That one playoff series against the Suns. He put up huge numbers. Every night you'd be like 30 and 10 again from this guy. And he's somebody that if you put him now and you spread the floor for him, he was one of those guys that Kevin Johnson's like this,

uh, from, from way back. There's guys now like this, like Westbrook's definitely like this spread the floor. He's going by people and get in the rim. Marbury could get by whoever he wanted. If he wanted is Marbury Lillard with a worst

attitude? I feel like we've done like four Lillard comps on this pod already. I don't know. He, you know, it's a classic. What if he KG gets this giant contract? Yeah.

Then the rules change. And Marbury's just bummed out. He knows he's never going to make nearly as much as KG and he'll never be the number one guy on the team and pushes for a trade to the Nets. And he should have just stayed with Steph. It was one of those, everyone was worse off by the trades.

But I think we remember, he goes to the Knicks. Things get super weird in a bunch of different ways. Finally ends up on that weird 09 Celtics team, the, where KG wasn't playing and they, he was supposed to be the missing piece scoring off the bench. People were really excited about that. I was not, I was not excited. You weren't excited about that?

That was, everybody gets way too excited about buyouts. I just feel like point guards, especially they hit a point and there's no coming back. Where it's almost like running backs with Frank Gore accepted. Where when they go from level

one to level two or level three wherever they're just there's no rally back. All right, you're up 10, Indiana. Dude, an hour and a half in. I know. We're going to zoom through this. This is... I could do a lot of different things here.

There's one name out there that was productive. Just do it. It's the right pick. Yeah, I still it's the right pick second best player in a team that almost made the finals I gotta take Twan

over Sharif Abdul Rahim you have to it's the right pick now Twan Twan is the best example go ahead why don't you take the floor here for a little bit,

and I'll plug in in any holes. No, we don't need to do 10 minutes on Anto Walker, but he made multiple all-star teams. It was second best guy on a team that almost made the finals. Sharif never had one memorable basketball moment. Twan is the second best player on a team that made the Eastern Conference Finals. 0-1.

Right. No, no. I understand. But I really feel like if we're going to knock... I mean, God, think how bad the East really was for that stuff to happen for them. It's terrible. At one point,

we're thinking they're going to play in the NBA Finals. We're like, they're going to beat the Nets. They took a 2-1 lead in that series. They took a 2-1 lead. That's right. They blow Game 4.

They lose Game 5. And then Nets come in and finish them off in game 6 but blowing game 4 was I think they could have won if they didn't blow that game there's a version of Twan and I have to draft the version that we saw over 12 years but there's a version of Twan

that could have been his skill set was so high 12 years. But there's a version of Twan that could have been better. His skill set was so high but Patino immediately hated him. But then Patino was kind of like play defense and you guys can take all the bad threes you want. His shot consciousness

was one of the worst of any player I've ever seen in my entire life. Except for his size, he could handle, he could pass, he could do all these things, but it just, it was like, it was just a little off. It was off just a little for it to actually be kind of tough to watch for really long stretches. And it wasn't a shock. You know, here's Ainge before he's the GM of the Celtics, trashing his game on TNT broadcast. And the first thing he does when he gets the gig is gets Twan out of there. But I have a little bit of a soft spot in my heart for Twan.

But I'm also fully willing to admit that it was really gross for long stretches. I likened it to a little kid, like the youngest brother in a big family who just nobody's paying attention to. Like the bonus Jonas? Yeah. Like the fifth kid in the Sullivans in Melrose and the youngest kid and the other kids and one's in jail and one's the football quarterback. And then there's that fifth kid.

Nobody knows wherever is, and he just develops a bunch of bad habits. Twan was just unchecked for the first five years of his NBA career, basically, and was in bad situations and developed some bad habits. But the thing that killed him was he lost his confidence with free throw shooting in 0-2 and 0-3. And once that happened, he stopped going to the line. He stopped driving in the basket. And he just became this jump shooter.

And he was never really a good shooter. What he was really good at was around the rim stuff and his passing. And he had all these different tools. But once he lost his free throw shooting confidence, it was a little like what happened to Rondo. When Rondo just didn't want to get fouled anymore, it completely changed how he played. It's really weird when you notice it too.

And you usually only notice it if it's like your team and you're watching them all the time like i remember pierce had this really weird stretch where he wasn't making free throws in like close late situations to the point where i went through and tracked them all and then put it together was like he's 80 he's like 63 in these spots and i remember i asked one of our guys at the celtics i go hey have you noticed this thing with he goes He goes, Oh my God. And then Pierce sort of figured it out and corrected it. And he was fine again. But Tuan, Tuan would also put together these moves for his size that most guys couldn't even dream of doing.

And then he just back rim it. Yeah. I've never seen a guy break people down, get open these spin moves, back you down hooks, both hands. He had all of this stuff. And it was like, it was like a math equation where you did it and you were like, oh, look how good this is.

And you're like, yeah, okay, but that's outside the parentheses. So none of this works. He was a really tough, confident guy who knew where to go and what to do on a basketball court. And he goes to Miami in 06 and plays big minutes for them

and kind of knows where to go and what to do. Wasn't afraid to take big shots. He was afraid to get fouled obviously. He was not afraid to take big shots. There's nothing more Twan than like up to 50 seconds to go. He brings it into the front

court. He jacks it because he wants to have the dagger shot and he missed him all the time. Yeah. He really wanted to... Hero ball was something that meant a lot to him. All right. Four more picks left. Number 11th pick.

Who has this pick in the actual draft? It was Golden State. Well, we'll do better than they did with that pick. I'm going Ogascus here. He hung around a lot longer than he should have. It seemed like when his feet started to go out on him, it just seemed like his career was going to be over in four or five years. It ended up playing for a pretty long time.

Where was he in this? He was 20th in the actual draft, but he hung around and he was, for his career, was 13 and 7. And you thought he was toast his third year in. He didn't play because of that foot injury. So he missed basically his second and third season in the league, comes back at 25 and you're like, this guy's shot and he had a nice run. Beloved teammate. So I think that's the right pick. Who do you have for number 12? All right. Still a lot of value out there.

I know. I could do roll guy here, which is a reach. You could go in the first round. There's one famous roll guy left. Yeah. Although left. Yeah. Although JYD

Junkyard Dog Jerome Williams out of Georgetown. Nice little run. But he's still too talented. I used to argue for Sharif Abdul Rahim

because he was he was the poster boy for his era of big numbers empty. He sucks. His teams weren't very good. He was part of the Gasol thing that happened on trade night

where Sharif went to Atlanta and then they stunk too. Do you know off the top of your head how many playoff games Sharif Abdul-Rahim played in his entire career? I do. It was one playoff series, six total. Six games. I used to call it the Sharif Abdur-Rahim All-Stars for guys who just put up empty calorie stats.

Like Zach Levine would be the Sharif MVP this year, right? But don't I still have to take him 12th? Yeah. Yeah. Let's put up stats. And he was good. He actually was good. And maybe it's grosser now when a guard puts up empty stats than a big

yeah maybe that's maybe that's kind of the cool inversion of of nba eras here is that you had the empty calorie guys that were bigger and now the empty calorie guys are all small well to put to put his value in perspective you have to look at a couple of trades he was in. In 2001, he's basically traded for the rights to Paul Gasol. That's it, right? Yeah. It's with Jamal Tinsley. I kind of liked.

Atlanta's like, we could take Paul Gasol, this young kid from Spain, or we could lock in a Sharif Abdur-Rahim. Prime Sharif. I actually thought that was a smarter idea. Then in 04, he got traded with Theo Ratliff for... That was the Rasheed deal, wasn't it?

Wesley Person and Rasheed Wallace. Rasheed, that's the best jersey ever. The Rasheed Wallace Atlanta Hawks jersey. Because he played one game. Yeah, that'll be like the Tom Brady Bucks jersey. You think he's only going to play one game? 13th pick. So much disdain.

I'm so mad. I get madder every day. I was watching Falcons Patriots Super Bowl today. I was like, how can he play for another team? This is insane. This is the greatest win anyone's ever had. I'm taking Kerry Kittles with the 13th pick for this will be for

oh, Charlotte. Kerry Kittles. Good fit for Charlotte. Good value. Shorter career than it should have been. He had some health issues, but I got to say

the Celtics went against him in two straight playoff series. I was always scared when he was open. He was one of those guys that when he missed, you were surprised. And the stats don't actually back it up. His stats are okay, but he's one of those guys.

There was something about how he carried himself and shot the basketball that you just felt like, oh, that's going in. 38% career three-point shooter. He took 3.6 a game. 14-point career score. Just got traded to the Clippers in 2005, and his career basically abruptly ended. But I always thought him and Kidd were good together.

I enjoyed that backcourt. Okay, the last pick. Dante Jones, member of Mississippi State. I love that Final Four. Oh, yeah. Malik Rose still available. Randy Livingston go tigers. Yeah.

Let's talk about some of the guys that are available. Cause we also have Derek Fisher's available. Eric Dampier, Travis Knight is available. Little Shannon Anderson, Moochie Norris, who brought in 10 years, out of Georgia. Yeah.

Lorenzen Wright. You mentioned him. Jeff McGinnis. Jeff McGinnis. Chemistry killer. Yeah. I can't believe you made the joke quicker than I did. As I was about to say it out loud.

Priest Lauderdale, just a couple years out of Central State University, but I'm sure a lot of dudes kind of liked him when they saw him walk into a room. So who are you taking? Othello Harrington, 12 years in. You know who I always sneaky like was Ryan Miner out of Oklahoma. Did not play well. Oh, yeah, didn't make it. Remember that?

You got to go Derek Fisher here. You know what I'm getting? I don't want him to coach. I don't want him to be my executive, but I want him to be a guy that I trust. And for some reason, extended his career another four or five years by dribbling into everybody on open layups because he could never get a fucking shot off against anybody towards the end. And the ref gave him the call every damn time down the court. So if I know I'm getting that, if I know I'm getting, as soon as Fisher slows down,

the refs are going to bail him out for another four or five years. Give me that guy. He played 18 seasons. He's fifth in this class in minutes. 32,719 minutes. The advanced metrics do not like him, but

came up big in a lot of big games. Well, that was... More points than Marcus Camby. That was really fun. I got to ask you before we go. This was Chris Ryan brought this up in a later draft that we had already recorded. Guy that you still haven't given up on,

even though he's retired. Guy you're still keeping your fingers crossed. Who is the Jeff Green of this draft for you? I think I said Ryan Miner but he was busy he had other stuff going on you know who I always like John Wallace out of Syracuse because John Wallace he's a really good example of

he was going to leave after his junior year he's a big he's kind of like he really is like a poor man's Derek Coleman talent and production, right? And Wallace has this great run with Syracuse. Get to the title game.

And they're like, look how much this guy improved his stock. And he went 18th, which is pretty much where he was going to go after his junior year. I always thought that

the John Wallace story is one of the, it wasn't even a lesson. It was specific to go after his junior year. I always thought that the John Wallace story is one of the, it wasn't even a lesson. It was specific to him, but here's this guy who comes back massive numbers. He was so much fun in that tournament, NBA body face up for a big, all these things you think he plays at cues,

good time, you know, just awesome production. And he went the exact same spot. He would have gone to come out a year earlier. He left out. He got game. I haven't seen that in a while.

Yeah, he's in there. He got game. Him, Travis Best, and Ray Allen and Walter McCarty are all in there. My guy that I have not given up on yet, even though I probably should. Damon Bailey's not in that? No. No.

I'm going to say that John Wallace was a really good one. You know, I almost want to say Travis Knight, but I really like- Don't say Walter McCart. I saw Tony Doak's 53-point game. I watched it live.

It was the first year I had league pass. And I, I honestly, I watched it live. He was unstoppable. The crazy thing is he wasn't taking threes. I don't think he made a three in the game. It was all mid range and up and unders and layups.

And when the Celtics made the terrible Joe Johnson trade to get him and Rodney Rogers, I got to say, as much as I hated giving up on Joe Johnson 50 games, they had a chance to make the finals. I thought Tony Delk was going to push them to another level. I was all in. So I've always enjoyed his game. I thought he was very Vinnie Johnson-ish.

I love the Joe Johnson trade because it's the worst. And the way it's relayed to me was that like Twan and Pierce were mean to him. Yeah, right. So because they were mean to him, it's terrible relayed to me was that like twan and pierce were mean to him yeah right so so because they were mean to him it's like well let's trade him for rodney rogers not going to resign and delco was a nice piece of that but my favorite delk stuff is ashley judd apparently she was legitimately into him and delk wasak too shy so we're going to be redrafting all these drafts we're doing 97, 98, 99

this week all of them will be on the book of basketball feed but we're going to do the what is it the 98 draft we're doing for your feed this week and then and then next Sunday which will be the last one we do on this feed, the 2000 draft. Yes.

Which is iconic. It's just flat out iconic. So we're doing that. So anyway, you can follow those on the Book of Basketball pod. We're going to talk about some current stuff right after this break. Hey, let's talk some charity stuff. Spotify is doing a really cool thing. COVID-19 music relief.

You can go to the little website that created it, covid19musicrelief.buyspotify.com and you can check out all the cool organizations that they're affiliated with. They are matching donations made by this page.

Dollar for dollar for dollar, for a collective total up to $10 million. That's cool. So every dollar you give to one of the things that's affiliated to this, they'll match it. Check that out. Really cool stuff.

And then since we're here, I wanted to mention helping the frontline feeding COVID-19. You can find this link on my Twitter feed. It's a partnership with the World Central Kitchen, which is doing all kinds of cool stuff. This one, the frontline thing, is trying to raise $3 million to help the heroes on the frontline every day at ERs, at hospitals, ICU, all that stuff, and raising money for them and for the local restaurants to make food for them. I donated 100,000.

This is my favorite charity that I've seen so far. So check those out, and we are going back to the podcast. Coming back, we're going to do some real-world stuff for 20 minutes, then we'll go. So Trump announced today that the quarantine has now been extended until April 30th, which is five weeks from now. Russillo, how are you holding up? I'm good. I really am. I think I'll start with the serious stuff and that would be, you and I are lucky from a work standpoint, so I'm really not going to complain about anything.

Work hasn't really changed that much for me and friends of mine that own restaurants or still in the service industry, working for restaurants, working for bars. You know, those are the people that, um, and I'm not, I'm not doing this as like the pandering thing, but I don't really have that much to complain about. I wish I could be home with my dad, uh, who's by himself, but it doesn't make any sense for me to fly across country and then, you know, be on planes and then travel to even get to him. And I don't even know if I can get to them because the boats have been shut down back where I'm from. So as far as the day to day thing, yes, it sucks. The beaches are closed now, which really changes the dynamic of living where I live. Yes. I missed the gym, but I've been trying to order whatever I can

scrounge. Everything's sold out like everywhere. It's been brutal to try to even piece this kind of stuff together, but whatever. I went for a bike ride. I do stuff at home. I'm going to move my dining room table out and probably put some weights just in my living room because I don't care. It's not like anybody's coming over. I don't have a family. I don't have that kind of stuff. I'm just trying to get work done, do as many pods as we can, work on the writing stuff the side, uh, with, uh, with something that I haven't been able to announce yet, which is,

uh, coming at some point. So as far as my day to day, I mean, I went on like a 20 mile bike ride today. I'm just trying to do the most of this and you know, there's, there's an end. We just, we don't know exactly if it'll be April 30th or not, but that's, that's what I'm doing, but I am isolating quite a bit, which I was doing for 10 years anyway. Yeah, it's definitely made me appreciate just the basic stuff, like being at the office one day and you're coming into your pod and we just shoot the shit for 10 minutes.

It's awesome. I haven't shot the shit with anybody in person other than my own family for two and a half solid weeks. And now we're headed toward four or five weeks more, but you know, I think it's been, it's been fun to watch people kind of get creative with how to maintain relationships. Like my, my dad's whole family was on a giant zoom call today, just all checking in for an hour and a half. And I popped in and I brought my son, he played the guitar for them. And it's stuff that you could argue we probably should have been doing anyway, if you're trying

to stay connected to people. My wife has had, you know, happy hour drinks with her friends three or four times, you know, um, where they drink, they shoot. It should be a day. It's probably going to be a day if she's stuck with my son for one more week. But it's been cool to watch people get creative with how they're trying to keep connections to one another. I think there's so much fear and fright right now as the hospital numbers and you start hearing stories and a friend of a friend or my friend who works in an ER or my friend's uncle. And these stories are either secondhand. I have some firsthand stories now of people that I know that have gotten hit by this thing. They didn't die, but, um, you know, really had a rough and scary seven, eight days. And I think,

you know, the thing that's really just hard to grasp is not knowing if you're next or if somebody you love is next. The feeling of constant unease, I've just never felt this before. And you compartmentalize it a bunch of different ways. You read books, do work, watch dumb shit on TV, make food, whatever.

You try to take your mind off it, but it's tough to, you end up keep drifting back to like fuck how bad is this gonna get yeah that's that's definitely i i it's it's there but i i just don't do that you know i i'm not saying and if i had a wife i had kids i would probably do that more often but i'm just going like okay you know let me know like in in my part of manhattan beach like a lot of people weren't doing anything. And I went out for a run too. And I was like, all right, this is packed. Like what,

you know, so I'm not going to do this the next time. And then the beaches start closing. And then I think every town's afraid to keep any beach open. Cause then it's like, well, that beach is open. So everybody's just going to go to that one from all the other towns where the beach is closed. So, uh, you know, we could bitch about the leadership part of this which just seems to be so incredibly petty um that i think it's disappointing it has to be disappointing no matter where you're at and i'll admit in the beginning i didn't know you know i was like is this something that becomes overblown but it's kind of hard to argue against some of these numbers that they keep going to what they're going and it's you know you can sit there's all the younger

people it doesn't really matter. But when you see that map of people coming back from spring break and all the different people that they travel all over the United States, and I'm admitting too that at like 20 or 21 for a spring break trip that I had planned, I probably would have done it. And I think it's starting to kick in a little bit.

I think there's a thing that you said though, like I wonder if there'll be something that comes of this that'll change the way we do things, or if it'll be this like bump where everybody's really nice for like six weeks. And then we just revert naturally to kind of who he's always been where, you know, maybe people are talking to people more now or catching up with people in a way, or you're getting back to reading or you're being more creative than you were before. You're more connected to your family because you're there every single day. And you'll say, you know what, this is kind of the way it's

supposed to be. It's like a power outage, but we still have power. You know, you remember when you were a little kid, there'd be a power outage. You'd play board games, play card games. And maybe your dad, my dad would be like, this is good. This is the way it's supposed to be family, just entertaining each other the whole time. I'm like, well, we're not the Puritans. Like I still want to watch TV, but that's what it feels like, the power outage with power. And part of me wonders if this will have some lasting impact that people will look at the world differently. But as soon as I start thinking that, I go, yeah, realistically, a month removed from

being able to be out again, we're just going to be back to what we normally were. I think, so I turned 50 last September. Of all the things that have happened, thank you. Of all the things that have happened since I've been alive, this feels like the biggest thing. And it's the most life-changing thing. I think it's the most memorable thing for so many different ways, good and bad. And, you know, I think about like the biggest things that have happened since I've been alive. And they range from, you know, when we had the blizzard in Massachusetts in 78, and just everything shut down for three

weeks, and nobody knew it was coming. And all of a sudden, it was the early 1900s. Nobody could get anywhere. You're just kind of stuck where you were. 9-11, things like that. This feels bigger than all that stuff. The amount of death and illness that's where we don't even really know yet what the real numbers are, how it's changed everybody's day-to-day lives. And I even think like how all my kids remember this. They're going to remember

this as like that crazy time when all of a sudden school was done in the beginning of March and they couldn't see their friends anymore. And I almost feel like this is even bigger than it feels, if that's possible. Like 30 years from now, we're going to look back at this and be like, holy fucking shit. Can you believe what happened in 2020? And I'm not there mentally yet, but I do feel like it's bigger than it kind of feels day to day. Cause the day to day thing, you're right. We could do 70 to 80% of this stuff you might've been doing anyway. You know, maybe you didn't have a lot of contact with people. Maybe we're able to do some of your job at home and things like that. But, um, but man, it does feel like transformative and going forward. Yeah. Is it, is this going to

completely change the restaurant industry? Is this going to completely change traveling? Is this going to change how we interact when we see each other? Um, is this going to change how we do TV shows? Are we going to just do a lot more remote stuff? You go from little small steak stuff to big steak stuff. I do think there's going to be lasting things from it yeah i just i always am trying to challenge myself to like what do you think those things would be and it's not even like capitalize on it as an investment or anything it's just you know would the would the tv deal like would you be more reluctant if you're a network to pay a ton for a tv deal and And I don't even really mean like the NFL

is one thing. It's a decade long deal. I mean, that's how long those deals are, you know, seven to 10 years, that kind of thing, depending on whatever it's negotiated, because it was starting new in 2023. But I would think TV ratings are going to take a massive hit for the first few months when we're, when we're clear of this, I think people are going to travel more. I think people are going to be going out like crazy. I mean, if we allow ourselves to have a little fun with this, like if you're in your twenties and you can't meet somebody that first weekend out, like you might want to just pack up and go to another country because I think there's going to be this thing where your life was altered in a way, as you said, you think this is the biggest

thing. It's probably going to be that it's probably going to be something I look back on and be like, wow, that was crazy. Uh, nine 11 would be the biggest thing it's probably going to be that it's probably going to be something i look back and be like wow that was crazy uh 9-11 would be the only thing else that comes to mind where you just think like how shifted your day-to-day was but that was a short period of time it was healing and then it was moving forward from it where the unknown can make this a lot scarier yeah but think about 9-11 though. Think about how different life was after that. It completely changed how we traveled. From a security aspect, it changed every aspect of our country. And from that moment on, it's almost like a before and after. Absolutely. Yeah. I was dating somebody once in Chicago and I decided last second to go fly it, to go see her. And you could get it, you can get to the airport with your suitcase, like 40 minutes before the flight, just kind of walk on, throw the thing in the overhead. And that was it, you know? And

nowadays, I remember one time it was like last minute boys trip. And I showed up with cash and paid for my ticket at the counter. Right. And then just like got on the plane in New Orleans. Like that's insane. And that's, that's kind of of how it went but that's like one specific part of it post 9-11 where this is you know like my grandparents i still have one grandmother that's alive luckily but i remember kind of talking to them being little kids and. And I remember specifically like one time, I think I chucked a penny. It was just like, whatever she, and she freaked. And I'm thinking, why would she care so much about a penny? And she was a child of the depression. So she always for the rest of her life looked at money as, as this thing that was just different than, than I did.

And honestly, you know, it's not like I was sitting around wasting money my whole life, but it's just something I've never, ever forgotten about. And it was only because of an era that she grew up in. And I just don't know if there'll be some lasting thing. Like, I don't know. I mean, it's a stretch to say like, oh, all of a sudden people are going to be nicer to each other or people are going to want to eat out more to, to help local businesses and all that kind of stuff. I just, I don't know. I challenged myself to try to think of what are the answers to some of the stuff will be. And I don't know. Right now, it's still too early

for me to kind of figure any of that stuff out. How do you think sports is going to change when we actually, let's say, let's go best case scenario. We make it through

the next two months. They start really lifting stuff in June and everybody's really determined to get back to normal by July. And I do think that's an American thing specifically where there's real resiliency in situations like this. And people really want things to get back to normal at some point. And sports is going to be a part of that. Do you think people will be less likely to want to go to games until they know that this thing

is gone? Because I actually think they will be. I think the concept of just cramming into some section at Fenway or the Staples Center and the person behind you is coughing, I don't care if they say, yeah, the corona's gone or we should be all good now. There's still going to be that fear for a while after this. Because all the scientists are saying, even if we can slow things down, it's never going to truly just kind of be like, okay, the virus is gone. We're good. This thing could circle back a bunch of times. And I do wonder if it's going to make people more scared to be around a lot of people. Yeah, but you might be right, but you got to weigh that against how excited people are going to have that as an option to go.

So are you telling me like the first game back, there aren't going to be a lot of people there? I don't know. I don't think people are going to be standing six feet away from each other the rest of their life once this thing is done, despite scientists, as you point out, that this isn't gone forever. And then the other stuff that you can read where there's a second

cycle that's waiting for us once the weather gets colder again in the fall but what i do find different in this is that don't you always feel like the nfl was kind of the lead blocker on all the social stuff for a long time where the nfl had the kaepernick thing and it's like what about the nba it's like actually we have a policy that's already been in place for a long time. Like, oh. And hey, what's up with concussions? And the NFL's going through all their concussion talk. And then the NBA goes, well, actually,

we do have a concussion protocol, just in case any of you guys are wondering. Where the NBA was almost able to draft behind the NFL taking on all the brunt of the criticism, whether it was off-the-field guys getting into trouble and what your policy was for domestic violence, the concussion stuff, the anthem stuff. And the NBA was always able to be able to say like, Oh, by the way, while you guys are all crushing the NFL, we just want to let everybody know,

here's what our policy and protocol is for all of those things. And now it's completely reversed because the NBA in the moment is dealing with this, where the NFL can still kind of map this stuff out and just, no, they can't, no one one like whenever you're calling i'm sure you're doing the same thing whenever you call or text anybody nobody knows just like any of us removed from it don't know so like if you're just a basketball fan going i wonder what woge knows i wonder what all these people know nobody knows anything because the people were asking don't know the answers to any of this stuff we'll know a lot more over the next five days when we see what happens at the hospitals. I mean, the stuff that's already happening now, I can't believe I was talking to my dad today.

He was saying how, you know, Massachusetts, they really don't want people from New York to come into Massachusetts. And in some cases, police cars are pulling over cars with New York license plates because they're really trying to delineate like, hey, everybody stay kind of in their states. This is stuff like we're in a territory now that we've certainly never even, I would say, come close to you're in, I don't know, Concord and you see somebody with New York plates, you know, get out and some house they rented and people would be like, Hey, you're from New York. Why are you here? You know, when you start talking, thinking about stuff like that, it's just like, Jesus Christ, it feels like the world's just been flipped. Well, it's, it's happened where I'm from because it's all these people with second homes on the vineyard that are these great houses and a lot of people are from new york city or fairfield

county in connecticut and they were flying into the vineyard and there was this big us versus them thing i guess going i don't know how big it was but i'd heard about it just from friends of mine that are still there and i'm like well what's the story and they go you know it's actually a thousand dollar fine if you're driving like on the vineyard in the winter, you can't drive your car unless it's groceries or anything medical. I'm like, you can't go to the beach and just walk around to get outside, you know, kind of for your own mental health. They're like, nope. And then they didn't want all the off-Islanders showing up. And then, you know, the counter argument to that would be, well, if I own a house in the vineyard, I'm paying property tax year round.

Like why, you know, I can't go there and get out of New York city. So, you know, being in LA, it feels a little different. Whereas if I were in New York city, I probably wouldn't be there right now at all. And I've even thought about getting in the car and driving to like a smaller part of, you know, some, some mountain town that's, that's not completely shut down. And I realized like, okay, well, what's, point of that? Just to do podcasts even further isolated than you are now. Well, I would say LA was much better equipped for something like this than New York was. New York, you're just in the middle of people all the time.

It's just too many, yeah. LA, you could literally be in your car or your house or your apartment or wherever every day and run into whoever you wanted to run into. All right, a couple of mailbag questions, then we're done. So we should do our recommendations too. Yeah.

Mitchell Eppner listened to, um, our karate kid podcast, which I don't know if it's eligible for awards. I guess we'll find out maybe 2021, but, uh, got a lot of good buzz on that.

He asked where the small ball 2020 rockets, like the crane kick where, where they, got a lot of good buzz on that. He asked where the small ball 2020 rockets, like the crane kick where, where they, they did it. And, and like Johnny Lawrence was confused by it and ended up making a poor decision. But if there's no way Daniel song could have just kept doing that in

tournament after tournament, at some point people were like, Oh, I'll just plow forward and knock you over. Uh, I thought that was a really good analogy. Congrats to him. That is such a good email.

Let me just think, though. Let me think here for a second. Would the crane kick? Right. Okay. Yeah, it's perfect. And there's nothing else to add to it.

Sorry. Steve Winters really vehemently disagreed with Reseda being Karate Kid being Reseda's apex mountain says no way it's actually Tom Petty's free falling

because he has that line in there about it's a long day living in Reseda there's a freeway running through the yard and he's saying like look that song's being played a quadrillion times. It would be played forever. Eventually Karate Kid will fade away.

I don't know. I still going with Karate Kid. Yeah. It's a line in a song that is timeless, but here we are 30 years later, still talking about the Karate Kid and it's, it's filmed there. And there's some real stuff you can go ahead and search where the apartment building's still there.

Miyagi's hut. What would you call that? He didn't put as much money into his work domicile as his home. Not at all. But that was like something they built out of thin air in the parking lot. So I don't know.

You tell me. Scotto Callahan from Woburn. Woburn. Woburn. I always said Woburn even though I knewhan from Woburn Woburn I always said Woburn even though I knew it was Woburn but that's my pronunciation dyslexia he said coronavirus

trade value chart what's number one is it Purell like for items you need during the Corona saga. A girlfriend? If there's trades, toilet paper, Lysol, aerosol spray. What else would be in the top 10 of the coronavirus trade value chart what's your what's your clear number one um i would say mac and cheese is in the top 10 now lysol disinfectant wipes are way up there those like 80 deep and you could just wipe down everything i was thinking

about that the other day hey do you think you'd be wiping your counters down like this two years from now? No. Two months from now? Probably not. No one's been here. So, you know, what's up? Now, I would, Rice, I think Rice is high. Rice is good.

Latex gloves? I have some, but I don't, like, I'm not scrubbing away over here at the HQ. What about, I mean, internet doesn't really count. I like what he's doing here. Oh, Wi-Fi. Wi-Fi's a good one. There should be something, though, that's just like a home run. If I said to you... A podcast?

Wi-Fi or toilet paper, you can only have one. What would you be using? It's not even debatable. All right. So Wi-Fi is the Tim Duncan. Oh, man. This is just ridiculous. What are we doing with our systems? Tony Parker's TP.

Grant in St. Louis wants to know, a couple months ago, you mentioned on a pod that Steve Ballmer is trying to build an arena in LA. It's the biggest story nobody was talking about. We didn't talk about that. Now that Ballmer has purchased the forum, what's the real story behind the headline that most people might have missed? I actually think it's pretty simple.

These guys were cock-blocking him for building his NBA arena. And it was like the neighbor, when you're trying to rebuild your house and the neighbor's just calling the permit police on you and you eventually have to come up with some deal with the neighbor. They were just not going to let him do this until he paid something for the forum. He ends up paying $400 million just to get the forum from them. And I think my guess is eventually he knocks it down. Maybe you keep it up for while you're building the Clippers arena and you keep the forum going and you try to get four or five more years of dates or whatever. But ultimately, I can't imagine why you would keep the forum there if you had this state-of-the-art NBA arena. So I guess the symbolism of this, of Ballmer building a state-of-the-art NBA arena

that would just destroy Staples Center in every conceivable way. Staples Center was 1999, 2000. And then on top of it, knocking down the Forum, which is the Lakers fans' version of the Boston Garden, where so many great memories happen there.

This is a rare case of the Clippers pulling one off over the Lakers. The Lakers cannot be happy about this. No, I wouldn't think so. But, you know, it's a little bit like if you left a show, if you were on first take, Bill, with Stephen A, and then you left, could you get mad about what they did with the show after you left? Right. Probably not. So Lakers fans can be upset about the kind of history that's in that building.

But I'd imagine 90% of Lakers fans haven't thought about the forum in forever. So it's kind of a flex. Not a weird flex. Not an okay weird flex. It's a bit of a flex. But it's a flex that has more to do with his future than damaging the lakers past although they should do an old school they should do a lakers game in the forum as like a final send-off or or make the final nba game be a clipper game in the forum that would be like a bigger fuck

you right i don't even know if they could do that. What about just speed wagon? Two sets. You're going to really like this email. It's from Adam Herman. All right. What's up, Adam? He said on a recent podcast, Bill was talking about Tom Brady leaving and pointing out that part of the issue is that Brady has been so successful and has had so few checks on his ideas that it clouded his perception on what was the right thing to do. There's actually quite a bit of writing on this topic.

I would specifically recommend On Grand Strategy by John Lewis Gaddis. The work examines why so many leaders seem to start making stupid decisions at the height of their power. The book gives two primary causes. One is that many people are successful early due to them being innovative in some way. However, the more success they have, the more they believe that their success is from that specific behavior and not by the mindset of being innovative. The other is that these leaders often start to believe their own hype and begin assuming

they will be successful just by showing up and not by the same considerations that work for them. Over time, people become more inflexible and reckless. Do you agree with this? Yeah, I think most successful, whether you're creative, whether you're in business or whatever, I think more people have one good idea than they have multiple good ideas. You, to me, are a rarity in this business. Oh, thank you.

No, you really are, because you were a writer who was completely ahead of his time and stood out in a way others didn't. And then when people were like, what's Twitter? You're on it. And then when the podcasting thing starts, because I remember, you know what they used to always do to me? Not always, but a couple of people at ESPN used to do this to me. I'd be going through like, Hey, Hey guys, like every decision kind of sucks for me. And they go, you know, Bill Simmons wants to do talk radio. I'm like, really? Bill wants to do this every day. That doesn't sound right. And be like, and they said, the only person he wants to do the show with is you. And I was like, really? Bill and I are going

to host a radio show on ESPN radio? Like, yeah. So, okay, cool. And then obviously it would never, ever happen. But you were then right to the podcast thing before anybody really was doing that. And then you leave ESPN, you start your own company, you would be the guy that wrote great columns then sucked at everything else. Or you would be the guy that was the podcast guy and was awesome and then say, I'm going to start my own company, and then you would be a fucking disaster because you were really creative, but you couldn't delegate and you couldn't figure out how to run anything operationally. I do think more people are one-idea people than they are multi-platform. I'm not saying it's impossible. You're an example

of it not being impossible. So why wouldn't you think you're always going to repeat your success when you've done that one great thing? Like I read one of these Zuckerberg books and I've read a couple about him. Like, yes, you had this thing and we can argue about what he stole or didn't steal or how much was his own idea, but he's had all sorts of flops and the fact that he can't figure out how to keep his thing even secure. And you're like, so why am I still listening to you again? Because you were in college and you're pissed off about a girl and you kind of stole somebody else's idea and had better coding. What is that? What about Tom Brady, though?

Oh, I forgot about that part. That was an incredibly long answer. I like the answer, but stare to Tom Brady. Do you think he's hit this point now? Yeah, I think a lot of these guys, when you are the guy for 20 years, I think LeBron has a little of it in him. And I think we talked about this.

I think those college coaches in small college towns see a God when they look at America. The Chris Berman corollary. Because I was thinking about it today watching Pat's Falcons, which I had to watch cause it was on Fox. Brady coming back and pulling that off and the reverence that his, even his teammates had for him after they came back and won that game. How are you going to be normal after that?

Like you're basically like a real life action hero in a movie. You're like Bruce Willis at the end of diehard. Only you pulled it off at an actual football game. You defied every single odd that ever said there's no way you can go back. And he does it to win the most Super Bowls of any QB or anybody ever. At that point, that's when you kind of

go off the rails a little bit. Even some of the stuff he's doing on Twitter now about immunity. It's like, does TB12, does he think he has the way to fight the coronavirus? I honestly can't tell from his tweets. What's he trying to do with the immunity stuff? I'd rather just not comment. Okay, let's move on. Let's do recommendations. I mean, I'm just a little worried that you know

I I respect people that have faith and feel that a strong faith the man above can steer you into the right directions

and help you in down times I would never criticize that but when you're telling me to pray this shit away you lose me recommendations then we'll go

sorry should I have not done that no we're good tv show uh tv show you want to recommend below deck it's really my only guilty pleasure reality show i've been a below deck fan for years and i don't know why because the fascination i have with the show is that everybody that works on it whether it's the chief stew, which is the main interior bill stew, the second stew is like her assistant. Third stew basically is in the laundry room the whole time. Then you have a chef who's kind of his own man. Anybody that's ever worked in restaurants,

85% of chefs are fucking batshit crazy. And then you have the bosun who's like the lead of the deck crew and then the second and third and then the captain. So they all work on these luxury yachts they're in the most amazing places in the world and they all seem to be kind of annoyed that somebody else rented out the yacht for like 30 to 50 000 a night now they actually have to work

and i go you do realize that it's not your boat right so that's um that's kind of what they have a new one that's below deck yachting, which is a much smaller vessel. Same number of crew. They've added horny engineer to the lineup, which is a little different. I didn't expect that twist. And there's not one, but two guitar players, which we've never had before. And I'm halfway through it right now. So I'm enjoying below deck.

Great. I watched All-American season two. What is it? My kids watched it ahead of me, and then my wife and I caught up because we're all quarantined, and what the hell else are we going to do? Nice.

It's just a good show. It has kind of a 90210 in 2020 vibe to it. It's a little soap opera. People in high school, everybody's way too old to be playing their character. The lead character is like 29. He's entering his senior year

in high school. Everyone's 10 years too old. Taye Diggs, they're really stretching him here. I mean, he's... Is he supposed to be in high school? No way. No, he's the coach.

Yeah. And, you know, you just want more. You just think like, what would Denzel be like in this role and just like the great actors? Because it's a really good role

that he has and he's doing his best with it. But it's a football show. It's like a... It's a little bit of a rich kid's show. It's definitely... Race is a huge part of the show.

The downtown LA stuff is great. The first episode of season two, there's like a whole Nipsey Hussle plot that gets woven in. There's some gang stuff in there. All of that stuff is really well handled. Like when the old shows like 90210 used to have like a gang episode,

it would just be the most awkward hour of the year. This show, they put real thought and care into all that stuff. I really like it. I didn't love the season finale. And I don't love the fact that one of the characters, Coop, has a whole hip-hop career that is, she's

just not that good. It's very David Silver-esque. But for the most part, 16 episodes, yeah, 16 episodes, it kind of moves. I mean,

what's funny is now, the show took off after season one. It was a CW show, went on Netflix, show took off. Then it goes back to CW for season two.

And it's kind of like people just wait for it to end up on Netflix, including my entire family. Finally shows up on Netflix. And it's kind of like people just wait for a 10 up on Netflix, including my entire family finally shows up on Netflix. And if you look at the trending thing, Tiger King's one and All-American is two and has been

for the entire week. So it's good. It's not that big of a commitment. I would recommend it for you. I would be interested in your thoughts. All right. Maybe I'll check it out. There's some football stuff in there. There's a worker.

I heard it's bad. I saw some of the route running, and people were very critical. You and I have talked about that sports consultant guy on movies. We're going to need to break off these routes a little crisper at the top.

There's a Welker guy who's just not Welker enough. If you're going to Welker, you've got to go all the way. Or get Welker to actually tutor you. What book do you have for us? American Kingpin, The Epic Hunt for the Criminal Mastermind Behind Silk Road.

I didn't really know that much about Silk Road because I'm not a drug guy, but this whole alternative internet, I think beyond just the dark web. And I did read about their involvement with Bitcoin, but this book, uh, just came out and, um, I can't wait to dig into it. I love, I love kind of the new crime stuff. I got a couple different lanes that I'm in with books right now, but those usually go fast. I start them and power through it. I haven't started it yet though,

so I'm not giving you the full endorsement, but we'll let you know how it goes. I just bought online. It's like the 50-year anniversary New York Magazine book that has all their covers and stories. And it's like a giant coffee table book, but for some reason that's my next book that I'm going to read.

So I got that. Do you read it or you just put it in the coffee table? I'm going to actually read it. Cause I, it's got some good stuff. I'll zoom through it. I believe you too. So that's good.

Thank you. Um, movie, new movie or old movie. Now let's go new movie first. Then we'll finish with old. Perfect. Platform on Netflix.

It looks kind of like a snowpiercer in jail with a table of food. I saw this. Is this good? I saw 25 minutes of it. It's dubbed over. So you just get to ride out the dubbing and then you'll be fine. It moves. It gets you in there fast.

It's predictably weird. I feel like so many guys have these ideas for things and they're like, well, how are you ending it though? And you're like, ah, that's how you ended it? Whatever.

I haven't made it all the way through. I don't even know if it's good or not, but it's so weird. I'd like you and I, I'm doing recommendations on stuff I haven't completed yet. I'd like you and I to watch Platform this week

and then regroup on this next week because it might be awful. Were you in on Tiger King or no? Yeah, I loved it. Banged it out real quick. Yeah. Did you? Oh, yeah.

I mean... It's unbelievable. For 25, 30 years, this is just my wheelhouse. I remember the Paradise Lost documentary with the stepfather, Mark Byers. He took his teeth out. They pinned it on the three Metallica

kids. But then it was clear the stepfather might have been involved. And then right around the time he became a suspect, he just decided to take all his teeth out. Had them removed surgically. I was like, well, that's weird. Now we'll never know if those bite marks are yours. And they're playing Metallica. It was like, well, that's weird. Now we'll never know if those bite marks are yours and they're playing Metallica.

And that was like the first one of these where it just took me to this really weird part of the world. And each thing that happened was weirder than the next thing. And I'm always in on all of those. As we were trying to figure out, and this might be a show I'm developing, so maybe I shouldn't give out the idea, but as we get through what we're going through right now i don't know if it'd be worth like

everybody having to be reviewed like how did you handle it okay well you're in zone one you handle that you did the right things you know maybe you went outside and had a cigarette in your driveway but that's okay and then you're like wait, wait a minute. So you did what? You worked at the Tiger King place in Oklahoma and you went on spring break? Yeah, we're going to put you in zone six. That one lady who the Tiger chewed her arm off and she was back at work in five days super proud of it that's a guy now just just to make sure we go about it the right way uh yeah my my favorite part of the whole thing is that joe exotic first grabbed his emt jacket and then was on the scene

so he had to have changed into that jacket for the camera before that i also think it's funny to see carol baskin who was accused of killing her husband at Big Cat Rescue, is experiencing the wrath of the internet in a way that she never understood. This isn't just people who like cat videos anymore. This is everybody else. When Cardi B calls you a bitch on Twitter, the game just changed for you. So they're getting a little taste of what it's like right now, which is probably something they thought was in their past. Did you see the Jim Irsay video where he became Jim Exotic

when he sang the Bob Seger song? That guy's unbelievable. He sang a minute of Bob Seger to cheer everyone up during the coronavirus thing. It was phenomenal. I loved it. That was probably better than Geffen's social media post to cheer everybody up.

Did you see that? No. You didn't see David Geffen? It was like a drone shot of an insane yacht in this crisp golden sunset. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Tiger King, I

thought it should have been five episodes. Seven was ambitious. All of those are that way now. Would you agree with me? There's so many of them that I'm like, dude, you could have done this in three or four. Tiger King, I would watch 20. Once Tiger King,

once Joe Exotic disappears, I'm pretty much ready to go within an hour after that. Because I need Joe Exotic. He's the LeBron of the documentary. It's just tough to rally back

once he's out. You didn't want to see any more Mo Williams shot attempts? Right. So we did new movie. Okay, so I really like The Way Back.

Nice. I got it ready to go on Amazon here soon. The Affleck movie. Sports movie, a little unconventional, but I had some issues with it. I can go into them about a month from now after everybody's seen it. What really struck me is just how good Affleck is.

I've been a fan of Affleck for a long time. I obviously know him a little bit. And I don't know what his best performance in a movie was before this. The Town. Well, for me and you, it's The Town. I think Gone Girl is a really smart performance where he's, it's a little meta.

The way he carries himself for that movie, the way he plays off Rosamund Pike. I had always thought that was his best kind of movie performance. He's better in this. Some of all fears.

Well, he's had some bad ones too. I don't think it's improbable that he gets nominated I thought he was really affecting I thought he was really affecting really good and it's clearly crossing the beams with him the character he's playing and what he's like

in real life there's a lot of baggage he brings to it that I think Brad Pitt could have played this guy and that's about it but I think the baggage is really important I think Brad Pitt could have played this guy. And that's about it. But I think the baggage is really important. I think it merges real life and the sports movie character

in a way that is unusual and probably shouldn't have worked, but I thought it worked really well. I just thought it was a really well done movie. The guy who did it did Warrior, which is a great one. He did Win-W uh a great one he did win win i think he did would win uh warriors awesome i mean warriors an unbelievable gavin o'connor so

i'm all in on gavin o'connor i i'm with you on affleck i think he's actually become criminally underrated everybody has bad movies but uh he's he's so good in gone girl you know why he's so good in gone girl if you hadn read the book, if you didn't know anything about that movie, he's so perfect at playing in between he did it, he didn't do it, he did it, he didn't do it. He's just... I think it's kind of like a musician who plays within the notes,

instead of just railing away as fast as you can on a guitar or trumpet, all that kind of stuff, but finding a way to play in between the music. And I don't know that much about playing. I like music, but that's what Affleck is doing to gone girl. I think he's terrific. So I look,

he's an, he's almost automatic for me that I would check out one of his movies at this point. So I'm with you. Chasing Amy was the other one for him that I thought he was really good in. That's a movie with a lot of flaws, but he's great in that movie.

Old movie, go. Say anything. This is more than just a meme, kids. It's probably the first romantic comedy that guys like universally. You normally

wouldn't like this kind of movie being you or i when we were younger um you may watch it or whatever but this one like was different um it was cusack is older than me when this movie came out but it it just hit all these perfect tones of kind of this lost guy and this line line alone, you know, just look, everybody that sees the guy holding the stereo up outside and it was Peter Gabriel music, that's actually not just a funny meme.

It's one of the best movies of that time because it's funny, it's dramatic, it's sad, it's a relationship. Cusack's so good back then and he's sitting there and he's dating this daughter and he's at dinner with the father. And Cusack's character Lloyd says, a career? I've thought about this quite a bit, sir.

And I have to say, considering what's waiting out there for me, I don't want to sell anything, buy anything, or process anything as a career. I don't want to sell anything bought or processed or buy anything sold or processed or repair anything sold, bought, or processed as a career. I don't want to do that. My father's in the army. He wants me to join, but I can't work for that corporation. So what I've been doing lately is kickboxing, which is a new sport. As far as career longevity, I don't really know. I can't figure it all out tonight, sir. So I'm just going to hang with your daughter. It's fucking brilliant writing. Brilliant. And I'm a little more successful now than Lloyd was, but that spoke to me then

and it still speaks to me now. So again, check that one out if you're a younger dude right now. It's a good date movie too when you're allowed to go on those again. It's an excellent movie. It's 31 years old. It's Cameron Crowe. I love his crazy friend who's still obsessed

with the boyfriend who dumped her, Joe she sings the Joe Lies Joe Lies, yeah Joe Lies song fucking kills me really good ending good John Mahoney too I think that was everyone knows him from Frasier

but that was I always knew him from that movie and Reality Bites is like the two John Mahoney movies I'm in on those for my old movie, my son loves these 80s movies.

He was so fired up we did Karate Kid. He loves Can't Buy Me Love. That was... I showed them that. I would do that at Rewatchable. Oh, would you? I have a lot of thoughts. We'd have to get America's thoughts on that

No we could do that Because I have good Sidney Mancini stories From when she spent a summer in Burlington No longer with us Oh wow Unfortunately Yeah unfortunately

So I can't buy me love I guess I could just do that one But so we've been kind of plowing Through the 80s And it's funny They're not much different Than the movies that like Netflix

makes now, like the, to all the boys I loved before it's all the same blueprint that was created in the eighties. So we was talking, I was telling him, he asked who won the movie when we did the rewatchables for karate kid. And I said, you know, Johnny, the guy who played Johnny Lawrence, we decided won the movie. And he's like, Oh yeah, Johnny Lawrence. He's like, did you give it to him? Cause he's never been in another movie.

I was like, no, he actually was in two other movies where he's like a dick, including just one of the guys, which is a classic. I was like, what's that? So we watched it on Saturday.

Oh man. Just one of the guys it's on Amazon. You have to rent it. Um, it's incredible.. You have to rent it. It's incredible. And in fact, I know we talked about it a tiny bit on the rewatchables. I have no idea why the Karate Kid, Teen Wolf,

Breakfast Club, a couple of these others lived on and just one of the guys died. But it is an unbelievable rewatch. There's sexism in it. The little brother was the one that stole the show for my son. He just could not. The little brother absolutely slayed him. Played by

Billy Jacoby. I don't know. Jacko and I used to talk about him all the time wondering what happened. I was just like, why wasn't Billy Jacoby one of the biggest stars coming out of the 80s? We'll never have an answer. I don't know, but he's great in this movie. And then Joyce Heiser, who dated

Bruce Springsteen and Warren Beatty in real life according to the Wikipedia search I did for her. Oh, girl. This was her one starring role, and she's great in it, too. But it's an old 80s movie that I promise if you watch it, you'll get a kick out

of for some way. There's no way it won't hold your attention. Just one of the guys. I need to watch it again because it's been a while for myself as well. It's great. Well, you're in the pitch black now on our feed, so that means it's time to go. Rosillo, we can hear the 1998 redraft on your feed this week, along with at least one other podcast, and the 97 redraft will be on the week along with at least one other podcast and the 97 redraft will be on the book of

basketball podcast so we're at least going through 2000 then I think probably like probably to 2003 and then we'll see if we keep going after that stay safe good to see you and talk to you as always and we'll talk to you next Sunday yeah you too same deal

family everybody out there. Thanks for having me on. All right. Thanks to, uh, zip recruiter. Thanks to Rosillo. Don't forget.

We'll be putting up some of these redrafts exclusively on the book of basketball podcast. So subscribe there. 98 will be on Rosillo's feed as well. And we're going to keep having fun with this gimmick. Cause what the hell? So we're going to keep having fun with this gimmick because what the hell is we're going to talk about? And that's it.

Rewatchable is coming tomorrow night with Shea Serrano and myself, Fast and Furious 7. Enjoy the rest of the day. Stay away from people. Take care of yourself. And we'll be back later in the week. We'll be back later in the week.