The Bill Simmons Podcast - The 2023 NBA Trade Value List (Pencil, Not Ink) With Joe House

Episode Date: December 14, 2022

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Joe House for the annual NBA Trade Value List, complete with honorable and dishonorable mentions and Bill's top 70 trade value players (0:00). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Joe House Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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the rewatchables. We did one of my favorite movies of all time. We did The Verdict with Paul Newman, which is a Mount Rushmore, Boston movie. It's probably my favorite movies of all time. We did The Verdict with Paul Newman, which is a Mount Rushmore Boston movie. It's probably my favorite Paul Newman movie. It's either that or Slapshot or favorite performance anyway. And it's one of like my 20, 25 favorite movies of all time.

It made me want to actually, I'm going to do this over the holidays. I'm going to make a list. My 25 favorite movies ever. I'm just going to decide what it is once and for all. I'm going to jot all of it is once and for all. I'm going to jot all of them down. The verdict will definitely be on there.

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if they can give more than what the judge said. Anyway, The Verdict. Go check it out. The Rewatchables. We have a Will Smith movie coming next week. That's all I'm going to say. Coming up on this podcast. Used to do this back in the ESPN days.

We're going to do it again. I've been working on a trade value list for a while that we're going to publish at some point on theringer.com this month. And one of the traditions was I would bat around the list with Joe House. So that's what we're going to do. We're going to talk about the trade value list

and try to decide who should go where once and for all. That is all next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, Joe House is here. We're taping this in the afternoon on Tuesday before all the Tuesday night games. So if anything crazy happens tonight, don't blame us. House, big day for you. The NBA just announced all of these new trophies

that they named after famous NBA stars. And it didn't get enough publicity. I don't think they had the Michael Jordan for MVP, that trophy, John Havlicek for six man. The drunk house trophy that they announced for the player who seems like he might have a drinking problem in real life during the season. I think this is your apex mountain, the drunk house trophy.

The ****. Oh, no. That seems rude. I'll stop. Do we have to edit this already? Do we have to edit this podcast already? All right, coming back. We just had to edit two house jokes coming off my drunk house trophy joke.

We're off to a rollicking start. Yeah, so they named all these trophies. I don't know what's going on. It started in this nice place with the trophies where Bill Russell, the finals MVP trophy, was like, this is great. The dude never won a finals MVP trophy. We didn't have it until 1969. Jerry West got it on a losing team that year. Russell never actually won a finals MVP, even though he won 11 titles. We're going to name the trophy after him. Great idea. Awesome. And then it's like the all-star game trophy for Kobe. This is great too. Kobe passed away. Good way to remember him. And now everybody's getting a trophy and they're just basically

ripping through all of the great players in history. There's a lot of weird things about this. One of the weird things is who asked for this? Who was sitting around going, I wish the trophies were named. Like I don't watch the Oscars and go, I can't wait to see who wins the Marlon Brando best actor award. It's just fundamentally stupid. And then the other thing is they're using up all these names so that 30, 40 years from now, what happens?

What do we do with like LeBron James? What happens if John Morant becomes one of the greatest players of all time? We're basically just locking into all the great guys from the last 50 years, and then we have no flexibility after. I'm just confused. Why are they doing this? Well, a few reasons, I think. But first of all, I want to commend you on being in such a good mood.

You are here relatively unscathed, it seems, after last night, the beating you took on the Manning cast. Oh, the Celtics Clippers you took on the Manning cast. Oh, the Manning cast. How's that even Celtics Clippers? Which beating are you talking about? It was both. That's what I mean.

It was a double dose, and it was like, you know, within a couple hours of each other. You're here. You're bright-eyed and bushy-tailed. I'm pleased to see it, but it was not fair that Manny Brothers two-on-ones you. I mean, that was kind of unfair. Listen, that was the only way they were even, it was

going to be an even matchup. I was just glad I was able to point out all the people that got held on the helmet catch was the highlight. It was fun to do, though. I enjoyed it. Those guys. I mean, the rewatchable as the helmet catch was kind of inspired. That was pretty good. I have to admit, I enjoyed it. They did a good job. Let's get Eli out on the golf course and let's

take all his money. That would be fine with me. So you don't care about payback, some literal payback. You don't care about these dumb trophies. They just created. I don't. Adam Silver just seems like he's trying to suck up to people and I don't get it.

The George Mike in a word for most improved player. You said everybody gets a trophy. We are in the participation era. Like literally everybody gets a trophy we are in the participation era like literally everybody gets a trophy i do wonder you made a great observation what are they going to do about lebron you can't not have a lebron trophy and it needs to be one of the three or four or five most prominent trophies what did they set aside for lebron are they going to rename one of these did tin duncan get a trophy yet i still have him as the seventh best player of all time. He's got to be like, what did I do? I won five

titles. But look, you know what's going on here. The regular season is irrelevant. We're going to talk about how irrelevant it is as we go through this list today. And, you know, they got to do something to create some emphasis on regular season performance and have some

kind of recognition. The NBA needs to pop up and wave its hand to remind everybody because, god damn, the NFL on Christmas, it's NFL until February. So anything for the NBA to steal even 10 minutes of a headline, I understand what they're trying to do.

I think they should have just had 30 trophies. The Steph Curry shooting trophy. LeBron 30 trophies. It's not too late. Shooting trophy. It's not too late. LeBron James durability trophy. Let's just keep going and going. House is here because I worked on an NBA trade value list for a while,

and I kept updating it every week, and I think we're going to publish it on TheRinger.com maybe next week. That soon? Yeah, we're getting close. The first quarter? We bring you in for the pod when I'm like really trying. Now I need like a sounding board.

I put a lot of time. I've really thought about it. We used to do this way back in the day on ESPN. So it's been a tradition for a while. The fun thing about this, there's a bunch of fun elements with this trade value list. One is that we have more players

that made the list. The list is bigger than it's ever been. There were years at ESPN when I think I just did 40 and it was like a chore to get to 40. I think we ended up at 50 at some point. This year we have a 70 and it's to me a legitimate 70. You could even talk to me in a 75. And I think it speaks to things that we've discussed in the pod before. The league's super deep. The older stars are able to just play longer. And you have the LeBron, Chris Paul, Kawhi, these guys who are in double digits with their seasons are still really relevant.

And then we've just really hit the jackpot with some of these rookie classes, with the exception of Johnny Davis. How dare you? Yeah, sorry, House. You took a Manning shot at me. That's a fireback. But it just feels like we're really loaded. And even this draft class, there's a lot of guys I like.

I had honorable mention people like Dyson Daniels, Nemhard, Jalen Williams on OKC. I caught him one night and he looked like he's going to be really, really good. It's deep, but first question for you. Is top 70 too many? Should I cut back? Is this a participation trophy trade value list? There's a little bit of that

vibe because of the inclination to put first year and second year players on based on what we've seen especially for the brand new players your Keegan Murray's your now I mean

I have no argument whatsoever with Mathren but Jeremy Sochan whatever I'm going to get these names wrong 50 times Nemhard like what's the sample size? So the trade value game, speaking of those young guys, comes down to simple questions. Would you rather have four years of this guy or 10 years of this other guy? Would you rather have

Josh Giddey on a rookie contract or would you rather pay $50 million a year for Bradley Beal, like House's team is doing currently right now? You're one of a five-year deal. Would you rather pay Jalen Brown $25 million a year, or would you rather play Jimmy Butler $45 million a year? Stuff like that. You have to factor in the salary cap. You have to factor in ages, how long you want to have someone on your team. And where it gets really hard is the guys like Kawhi Leonard, who I went to see last night, who was the best player on the floor in the Celtics-Clipper game and had a real edge to him.

Him and Paul George were like, oh, you guys are the best duo? Don't count out the old guys yet. And Kawhi went at him. I had Kawhi, spoiler alert, I have him 70th on the list. And I debated honorable mention versus 70 just because he's got this crazy contract. He's played less than 6,000 minutes since 2017. I don't want to know what to do with Kawhi. But after last night, it's like maybe he's 30 spots too low.

He is. It's true. And this is part of the conundrum of doing it at this point of the season, which is on the one hand understandable because you're trying to capture the moment of the first quarter of the season. But on the other hand, in this diminished relevance of the regular season moment that we're in, it's tough separating some of these guys out.

And I get the conundrum. Kawhi is not 70th on this list. He's much, much, much, much, much higher. How many more games of the regular season is he going to play? Will he play another 40 games, do you think? I don't know. Well, I'll tell you this.

Two weeks ago, you could have told me he shouldn't be on the list, and I think it would have been a fair thing when he was like, my knee's still bothering me. Actually, I'm not ready yet. Man, this guy's been hurt for 20 months. Watching him yesterday, and I was glad I went because there's stuff you pick up on in person. There's physicality and just the way he's moving, even stuff like the way he's walking when there's free throws. He looked healthy to me. I got to say, Iippers on Saturday night, and I agree with you. And he didn't even really have to do very much in terms of extending himself.

He didn't go at. I mean, I think he was fine with the Kuzma and the Denny Abdiah matchup. He wasn't quite as revved up as he might have been for the Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum matchup. And the Clippers were in control of that game the whole way. It was the John Wall homecoming game, by the way. Nice moment for John Wall. Everybody got up and clapped for him. I thought it was a little

excessive when he started screaming, this is my city. Like, make round three. Make round three, John Wall. Once. For it's your city. Washington won some titles and made some finals. I don't know if they're impressed by your one round two appearance. I saw last night with John Wall,

you know, that Clippers team is deep and scary and we can talk about them another time, but they brought him and Kennard together and they played really well together and they played with speed. Anyway, that's... It reminds you of the John Wall skill set, which is guys in the corners catching balls with him

drawing the defense in and getting open shots, like how he made a bunch of guys a bunch of money from that skill set. And he still can't shoot. Okay, so what we're going to do is we're going to go back. We're going to work backwards. I'm going to mention all the honorable mention,

toughest omission guys. And then we're going to go down. I separated the trade value guys into 13 tiers that we're going to go through. And this might change by the time we publish. I'm going to try not to step on the piece too much. Honorable mention guys that we had. I'll just go and stop me if you get super excited about any of them. Alex Caruso on a very cheap contract is a real trade piece. I think he's like $9 million a year.

Wendell Carter, you could argue Carter for Vooch straight up is probably a trade Orlando would make at this point. He's hurt, though. Your guy, Porzingis. Trade asset. 20-8 every game. Washington, three games away, four games away from the very worst teams in the league.

Right. Which way should they go? Which way should they go? Possible trade asset. Seth Curry's expiring. Great shooter. Dylan Brooks, nice cheap contract, 12 million. Lou Dortch just signed an extension,

really good three and D guy, but a little expensive. Kaminga. Yeah. You could talk me into putting on the list. He's tapping into something in the last couple of weeks. There's a little bit of an edge to him. There was a play in the Golden State Celtic game when all of a sudden he was like, I want to post up Jason Tatum and the words are like, this is a great idea. You should post them up. And he went at him, Tatum stripped him. He kept

going and he dunked it on Tatum's head and had a little face after. I was like, come in. He's like 19, 20. So he's on there. Your guy Sohan. Sohan. RJ Barrett who

barely even deserves to be honorable mention. He's been pretty spotty this year. Keegan Murray who... Let's stop's stop on R.J. Barrett. Yep. I can't find Julius Randle anywhere on this entire list. You know, he should be in the toughest of missions, so I'm going to add him. Well, I don't think he should be omitted.

The Knicks are 14-13, just finished a four-game... on a four-game winning streak and are the sixth seed in the East as we tape this podcast right now. I have been a prominent critic of Julius Randle. I believe that he sabotaged the Knicks last season and that there was an attitude issue going on. He's been excellent this year.

He's a 22-9 and even more importantly a 46 percent shooter from the field he is he and brunson have a thing yeah and that that that's important i mean you know i i think the knicks are in the mix for the balance of the season if they can stay healthy and they are definitely an interesting player in the trade market. They are going to be looking at these guys out here on the honorable mention list and the toughest omission

list as a buyer. Looking at your guy, Beal. Oh, I would. God, I would welcome that. I just don't think there's enough in assets. Would you help him pack? Would you help him drive? Help him drive his stuff from Washington to New York? Not enough assets coming back from the Knicks. Yeah, Randall's 22, 9, and 3.

He's shooting 46% this year. He was 41% last year. Yeah, there's a case. I'll look at that. His contract, 23.7 this year, 25.6, 27.5. It's a going rate. Pretty solid. You're right. He has a real 27.5. It's a going rate. Pretty solid. You're right.

He has a real case. I'm going to mark him down. See? Sober House, a good asset to the final trade value list. More people I liked from Honorable Mention. Bones Highland. Yep. And then Fred Van Vliet just hasn't been that good this year,

and he's getting paid a lot of money. And I think if I had done this list in the summer, I think he would have been on the list, but I don't think he deserves to be. So there you go. Another potential trade asset. Toughest omissions for me. Suggs, who rookie contract, and he's shown flashes.

Robert Williams, who has a great contract. We just don't know if he can stay in the court. If he shows he can stay in the court for the next two months, he's on the list. I love Jared Vanderbilt on Utah. And he's on a cheap contract. And you could argue you'd rather have him than Gobert. Have you seen Dyson Daniels on the Pelicans at all?

Not only have I seen him, I was really praying that he was going to be around when the Wizards drafted this year in the most recent draft. I thought he would have been a terrific defensive addition to the team. He just plays hard as a mother effer. And it's unbelievable that he's on the Pelicans. The Pelicans are quickly becoming the most fascinating league pass team, especially with how Zion's playing. Daniels comes out and he looks like he's 25.

Yep. He might end up being on the list by the time I'm done. I really like the way he carries himself. And you're right. Defensively, he's already there. Seems like he's fun to play with. And I'll be interested to see how he evolves for them, whether they're going to be able to find enough minutes for him

because they're a contender. That's the problem. Yeah. Draymond Green, That's, that's the problem. Yeah. Draymond green. He's player option for next year. He's been really good the last month, but he did punch his T-man in the face two months ago. So I thought,

have we, have we finally hit the expiration date on that joke? No, it's not really a joke. I mean, they're playing better after tonight's game. Let's see if it's, if we've hit the expiration date

because the Warriors are playing the Bucs. The Warriors are 2-11 on the road straight up. That's not against the spread. But what they did to Boston on Saturday night and what I think they're intending to do tonight, and a lot of it

comes down to Klay, if they show out tonight against the Bucs and possibly even beat the Bucs, then I think that's it. We can put the punch behind us. That's my contention. Keldon Johnson on the Spurs.

Sure. It's like a very quiet 20-a-game. Yeah. Jordan Poole, he makes a lot of money. He's 30 million bucks. Jalen Williams on OKC. Have you seen him? I have. This was a

Jonathan Sharks favorite. Shout out to our guy. Sharks, yeah. Just, OKC just putting together this positionless, weird basketball team that's super fun.

Nemhard on the Pacers, who just looks legit and has already had a couple holy shit moments. Made a game-winning three against the Lakers. Destroyed the Warriors. I forgot to put him on the list I sent you, but I forgot to put Devin Vassell on there.

Yeah. On the Spurs. Sure. I watched him over the weekend. Santonio beat somebody on the road. Maybe it was Miami. And he made all the biggest shots down the stretch, but he's another 3 and D guy. He's as advertised. Randall

Zubats on the Clippers. Just a unique guy. Like yesterday in the Celtic game, there were a couple moments where it's like, fuck, he's five feet from the basket. We don't have any size. He's got a cheap contract. And then finally, my guy Malik Monk, who I think is making like $7-8

million a year. If you're talking about heat check guys off the bench, and you're looking at Jordan Clarkson, Jordan Poole, and Hero, all these dudes, Monk at a discount is a pretty good deal. Any of those guys on that list, other than Randall, you think has a case?

Well, there's an omission that should be a tough omission, and I'm not even joking. I didn't see Bull Bull anywhere. Bull Bull deserves to be somewhere in this. Wow. Bull Bull. Yeah. They're doing this.

I almost got my game-worn Manute Bowl jersey to put up over my right shoulder. I wish I had thought of that ahead of... In honor. I really... I'm not even kidding. I think Bowl Bowl deserves some kind of recognition in view of where the Magic are, that team that's coming together,

and the potential that they have. They're in the Wembley sweepstakes. Yeah. This thing is getting... Now, we, me, you, and Rosillo, all jumped on the Magic as an over-candidate, and they had to win 27 or 28 games, I think, to get there. You know, we might get there with that, though. Well...

They've been hanging in some of these games. Like, they're... Right now, their record is... What are they? They are eight and 20. But if you go through the games, they're, they're always hanging around at the end of games.

Like, and they beat the Raptors. They beat the Clippers and OT recently, but they played the bucks hard. I don't, I don't know that they're, they're in the mix night after night. I think we might be able to get that unless they start sitting guys.

Well, I think a big part of that. I mean, Powell's been hurt a little bit, so that's another aspect of it. But let me just go through some of the bowl-bowl case. He's shooting. What do you, well, let me just ask me. I don't know if you have it up in front of you. What do you think he's shooting from three? I thought he was, wasn't he like 40%?

He is 40%. He was over 41 41 a week ago and he's missed a couple since he's shooting 60 from the field and our boy koc last week threw out a stat about how effective he is uh on on offense he's an efficient isoorer. He's in the top 8% of ISO scorers. And he also, because of his handle, is among the league leaders in unassisted field goal percentage. He doesn't need a pass to score from both the three-point line or from the field. This is an amazing ball run.

He's 23 years old. Yeah. So there was one video that somebody had, he's averaging a 12 and seven this year. I know there was one video that somebody had about him versus Wemba Nyama where it was like the same, I think it was a TikTok video. I think my son showed it to me where it was like Wemba Nyama getting a rebound and going down the floor and, and bull bull. I got to say the same kind of weird bodies and everything, but yeah.

All right. We'll add bowl, bowl. Yeah. Let's add bowl, bowl. Rudy and Clark will kiss us for it. Oh,

Orlando's got something good going. So you think Randall is the one guy we're going to mark down? Well, I think he deserves, he's, I put him well, well inside the top 70 to be honest. Okay.

All right. We're going to take a break and then we're him well inside the top 70, to be honest. Okay. All right, we're going to take a break and then we're going to hit the top 70. Hey, if you're looking to get more out of this NBA season, it's the perfect time to download FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook. New customers get a no-sweat first bet up to $1,000.

That's free bets back. If your first bet doesn't win, just download the FanDuel sportsbook app. You can make all types of bets. It's safe, secure, super easy to use. Player props, same game parlays, whatever you want to do. I'm going to tackle Wednesday's action

and I'm going to post this same game parlay from one of the games. Probably Hawk's Magic, although you might be able to talk me into Clippers T-Wolves, depending on who's playing. I'm going to post that on my Twitter feed on Wednesday at some point,

my favorite same game parlay of the week. FanDuel even lets you combine your bets for a chance at a bigger payout with the same game parlay. FanDuel also live in Maryland. Marylanders, that's where Joe House is from. He's on this podcast. Make sure you get on the action

with great offers, boosts just for you. Don't miss the chance to get your no sweat first bet up to $1,000 of free bets when you join FanDuel with promo code BS. Make every moment more with FanDuel, an official sports betting partner. The NBA must be 21 plus in select states. First online real money wager only refund issued as non-withdrawable free bets that expire in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fandle.com. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl,

but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. All right, top 70. I'm not going to read the names of the tiers. I'm going to save that for the piece. But this is Group M. There's four people in it. All of them are expensive. Number 70, Kawhi Leonard. Number 69, Chris Paul. Number 68, Zach Levine. And number 67, Bradley Beal. And the question is, with all of these guys,

for the amount of money you're paying, where are you going short-term, long-term? Right? Kawhi, the Clippers, they traded so many picks for him, they're not going to shop him. But if you're another team, would you want him? And after you watched him the last couple games, I think you would.

Chris Paul, a couple moments in that second New Orleans game, which I watched, where he looked like the old Chris Paul, especially he had a big shot in the last five seconds. But for the most part, his stats are way down. His field goal percentage is way down.

Eye test doesn't look like he's, I would say, rounded in his shape yet. It makes me nervous. Zach Levine, they gave him that big contract and he immediately got hurt. And it turned out his knee was bothering him since the spring he got surgery. It has not looked the same. And then your guy, Beal, it's just too expensive for what he gives you. So I think that we need to split this category up because the value of Kawhi and Chris Paul is to those teams' ability to win the NBA championship. Both of those guys are on teams that have championship ambition and aspiration. And what the teams are paying for is that run, that playoff run into the title zach levine and brad beal are overpaid they are your classic

example of guys the old nba mistake where you pay non-superstars as super duper stars i'll never get over the nba i would say it's all sports well sure it's a classic like oh we don't want to lose this guy and then because of the cap yeah the way the cap operates, like, you know, signing a guy like Bradley Beal, who's made one all-NBA team, a third team, one time in his entire career, and he's within 5% of the value of the contract that Nikola Jokic has, the Joker. Like, that's a problem. And that's the cardinal sin, the Joker. That's a problem. And that's what that's the cardinal sin in the NBA.

Well, and then on top of it, he's taking that contract because it's the most money anyone can offer him. And that's really the only reason he's taking it. Otherwise, he would have left. He doesn't even seem that happy to be there right now.

Well, there has been some fun conspiracy theories here in Washington. He had a very convenient hamstring injury three games before John Wall's return back here to Washington. So he didn't have to be on the floor for, you know, the D.C. crowd doing what it did for John Wall. Now, look, that's a conspiracy theory it does conveniently fit a lot of my beta biel um kind of personal animus i think he's a wonderful guy i just don't you know it's not his fault the team has grossly overpaid him but i mean it's colossally uh it's not overcomable it's a hurdle that you're stuck with. Anyway, the Kawhi, Chris Paul, they go somewhere else. Zach Levine and Brad

Beal are your Cardinals in overplay. The teams are bumped. I have a category later and I'll spoil the category. Group J is called sorry he's worth way more to us than to you. That makes sense. Both of those guys were initially in that category. Then when Kawhi started

missing games again during the season and Chris looked like he did, I moved them out of there, but I should move them back. All right. Next category. This is Group L. And this is basically a bunch of people who were just quality starters on good contracts.

So I'll split them up because there's a lot of people in this category. But number 66 to number 60 in this category, CJ McCollum, Kyle Kuzma, Tyrese Maxey, Jeremy Grant, DeMar DeRozan,

Jordan Clarkson, and Tyler Hero. So one at a time. McCollum's had a pretty lousy shooting year and he said he's been sick and he had like minor injuries and stuff. But they, he's a big part of what they're doing. Yeah, it doesn't matter. He's the mayor of the Pelicans.

You got to have a mayor. Kuzma's got a great deal. He's $13 million a year. He's a great trade piece for them. I don't even know if you'd want to trade him, but he's really turned into an asset. I mean, you could argue him just for Westbrook straight up would have been a great trade for the Wizards.

He's in every other game, guy. He doesn't have the consistency yet. But when he showed, I mean, he had 25 points in the first half against the Clippers on Saturday night. Like, he can get it going. He can start going downhill. He's still, I would love to see him with

an adult developed point guard who could help him to figure out how to put the brakes on a little bit and the one thing with Kuz I would like to see also a little bit more is a consistent effort on defense but yeah great contract and you know an asset you didn't expect to like him like you did you're right about that I mean you know what what did we see pleasant surprise from the Laker years I mean it was also the same kind we see from the Lakers years? I mean, it was also the same kind of consistency. It looked like he was going to be an unfulfilled promise kind of guy.

He works his ass off and, you know, he's trying to fulfill his promise. He's on his way, I think. I think he was screwed a little bit on the Lakers team because he basically is the exact same position as LeBron. LeBron's not going to play out of position.

So Kuzma there was trying to kind of fit him into these other things. Now on the Wizards, he's the right guy. Maxie is 64th. You could argue he should be higher. I don't know. He's putting up stats. He's on a rookie contract. I can't say he's a lockdown defender.

Well, until the injury, when Harden went out, it felt like there was a possibility for Maxie to step in and start making the case for most improved player. That he was going to get all the run. And then he got hurt. And now he's in a little bit of no man's land here,

which is why I don't really quibble with where you have him. He might be a little undervalued there. He's on a weird team where it's like Embiid has the ball or Harden has the ball all the time. It would have been more fun if he was just like the point guard

on Orlando. Just playing with those guys, playing with the two forwards and doing stuff. I think it's around the right spot. Jeremy Green I did not the point guard on Orlando, just playing with those guys, playing with the two forwards and doing stuff, I think it's around the right spot. Jeremy Gray and I did not expect to have on here, but he's been just really good on Portland. Really good. Those reps that he got in Detroit,

all those scoring reps have really helped him. And that was a pretty good trade all the way around. He's got a good contract too. He's only, I think, 20 million this year free agent. DeRozan's number 62. This is like how crazy this list is. These guys are good players. They're not even in the top 60.

DeRozan's this year, next year, like 28, 29 million range. Professional scorer. I assume they're going to blow it up pretty soon and he will be available and Vooch will be available. You could probably get Kobe White. Caruso will be a great trade piece and DeRozan will be available and Vooch will be available. You could probably get Kobe White. Caruso will be a great trade piece and

DeRozan will be a fun one. There's no player quite like him. He'll be the end of some sort of breed of shooting guard after he's gone. That'll be it. Clarkson, I was shocked that he made the list and I was shocked that I've almost felt like he should be higher because when you watch

those Utah games, he's an awesome crunch time guy. Did you have him in Washington? No. You're Jordan Crawford. You never had Jordan Clarkson. You should have had Jordan Clarkson. Signals got crossed.

I think he is. I don't have any issue with having him on the list since we're sort of through the first quarter of this season and this is capturing what we've seen. He, to me, it's a Will Hardy award. If we're naming trophies, there should be a Will Hardy trophy. And Will Hardy deserves really resuscitating the career of Laurie Markkinen and Jordan Clarkson.

Not necessarily. Kelly Olenek is a valuable trade piece that all of a sudden again, after bumping around a bunch of teams. Clarkson may make sense ultimately for wherever Utah ends up because he's

still pretty young, but he also might fetch back some decent trade assets. At least one good asset. Yeah, I think this is part of the trade value game. He's 13.3 this year, and he's 14.2 next year, right? So you could pay him that, or you could pay Jordan Poole $31 million.

Jordan Poole is, I think, a slightly better player. He's younger. But if I can have Clarkson for less than half the price, I'd rather have that. It gets tough with the next guy, hero, um, who I have at 60 because,

um, I do heroes 22. There's moments, especially like you just feel like he's going to score 10 points in a row when your team's going against him. There's a ceiling with some of the stuff he's doing. That's pretty high. And I'm interested to see what's there five years from now. I don't know what's there five years from now, but I think it's going to be more than what we're seeing. Well, we have to root for it. Miami has to root for it. Yeah, Miami definitely has to root

for it. All right. So now I'm going to get away a little bit from, I don't want to spoil the column too much. I'm just going to give, I'll do a hodgepodge of 59 to 52, and you'll have to guess where we had them ranked. Four centers are in here. DeAndre Ayton, Sabonis, Gobert, and Allen. Wiggins is in here. De'Aaron Fox, Brunson, Markkinen, in some order,

not to spoil it too much for the listener. Anybody in that list, jump out at you. I am having a hard time with Rudy Gobert being on this list at all. Let's talk about it because there was another category with that Zach Levine, Bradley Beal category. I was thinking about putting him there or put him on a convention. Here's the problem. Minnesota gave up so much for him that whatever value he has for them, there's a saving face piece of it that I don't know how that translates to what he would be worth in a trade because nobody else in the league would have him even close to what they paid for him last year and them trying to save face now. And I just don't know what he's worth. I don't think we've had a

situation like this before because this is already one of the worst trades in the history of the league. Let me make a recommendation. And this is a category that we didn't really run through, but it was one of my absolute very favorite categories of this list, which is dishonorable mention. We didn't go through dishonorable mention. Oh, I forgot to do dishonorable mention. I know. My bad. So yeah, my bad listeners. Dishonorable mention was Kyrie, Harden, Ben Simmons, and Russell Westbrook. Now, first of all, Russell Westbrook, no longer dishonorable. Yeah, let's take him off. Honorable. Yeah, good point.

You're off, Russell Westbrook. Good teammate, trying hard. Agreed to come off the bench. He invented himself as a sixth man. Great job by him. You're right. Great job by Russell Westbrook, so he's no longer.

I would put Gobert there, but the dishonor really isn't his, although his inability to get along with teammates seems to be traveling with him you know there's been rumors about his ability to get along with teammates and you know we've we've seen the clips of him um with minnesota waving frantically for the ball in the low post and and getting it and not succeeding and his teammates showing body language, unfavorable body language, perhaps. Is it because he's French

or is he not fun to play with? I can't tell. There might be a personality thing. It's hard to say. We don't know. I mean, I'm not... It certainly explains why Donovan Mitchell lost the ability to play defense last year

because the life had been sucked out of him. So, dishonorable mention. Now look, the dishonor belongs really to Minnesota, not to Gobert. Right. I think he's on the list. I don't think they would trade him, but maybe I just put him on the back. Who would want him is the thing. What

would the case be? What would the team, the perfect team for Gobert be? You know what? I've changed my mind. I'm just going to do the rankings in order for the listeners. I think it's stupid to have ambiguity. It's too hard to do. We had Brunson, 59. Brunson.

Hey, turns out he's good at basketball. Oh. Oh, I knew that already. I watched the playoffs last year. Markkinen. Discount Dirk. Yep. Doesn't seem like a small sample size anymore. This has been 27 games.

Well, I can't call him the Finnish Bargnani anymore. You cannot. Cannot. He's too good. He's really good. Bargnani might have been good in this era of the NBA, by the way. You know, I stand by Bargnani. I had a lot of Bargnani stock till the bitter end. I even kind of semi-defended the Knicks by the way. You know, I stand by Bargnani. I was, I had a lot of Bargnani stock

till the bitter end. I even kind of semi-defended the Knicks trade for him. He averaged 20 a game one year in Toronto. Like, it wasn't like, he wasn't Darko. No, he was not Darko.

I think the league, you're right, he was probably six years too early. Now he's just like Kelly Olenek, basically. Sure. At Darren Fox 57, he was not on the list before the year.

I think Sabonis has really really had a dramatic impact on him. The whole team. I think together. The chemistry of it. He plays really hard. He always played hard. Plays hard. It was always a little misguided and then in the last three minutes he always made you a little nervous.

But I think that's gotten better. Then I had the four centers in a row at Aiton, Jared Allen, who's basically $10 million a year cheaper than Aiton, Gobert, who we moved, and then Sabonis as the best of that group. And Sabonis, this might be, he might be 10 spots too low here because he's been a borderline dominant offensive force. They run their whole offense around him. And I've been really impressed. That's a really fun team. Are you able to watch them?

Because you're on the East Coast. You've probably not seen a lot of Kings. Some of the West Coast late night, obviously I have the package. So I'll click on as long as I can stay awake. But you know me, I'm old, so I can't stay awake. Yeah, you're snoring. Yeah, I am. Snoring on the Kings. Wigs

at 52. Just earned it after the playoffs last year. Yeah, I get it. Fair salary. It's a reward for his finals performance. They haven't locked up for a couple, three years after this one, and I think for 3 and D guys, that's a really good price.

Next group is the upside gang. There's five. Jaden Ivey, Herb Jones, Shaden Sharp, Ben Matherin, and Jabari Smith, number 47.

That's from 51 to 47. These are all young guys on cheap contracts with a shitload of potential. And Herb Jones's case is somebody who it can be on a contender right now playing crunch time. I think there's a reasonable case to be made. And our silent partner in this, our anonymous consigliere made the observation. You could flip these two categories right these young upside guys you know what you get out of the quality starters and there are some great contracts in amongst these quality starters um even with how cheap the the upside guys are i mean i understand the upside guys so this is the trade value game, right? Would Houston trade Jabari Smith

for Jordan Clarkson? No. Would they trade him for Tyler Harrow? No. Marketing? Now they're at least having a meeting. Then we get to like Sabonis. Maybe they'd consider it. That's why it gets good. I value the upside for this game more than the quality guys, but I

hear your point. These guys are all cheap upside guys, but I, I hear your point. These guys are all cheap upside guys, but you know, who knows if any of them are going to become all stars, whatever we know what we're getting in the other group. So it could go either way. Okay. I'll tell you this much going one at a time.

Ivy physically, I think he's 19. Yeah. I don't know what he's going to look like four years from now. And we don't know what's going on with Cade and what he's going to look like four years from now. But physically that backcourt is going to be a problem. That is not a slender backcourt. That is,

those are two, those are two, two athletic, strong physique guys. And I remember Nash, I think I've told this story, asking Nash when he was playing who was the hardest guy to play for him. And he said, Baron Davis. Oh, sure. And I remember being like, Baron Davis?

He's like, yeah, it's like going, like trying to basically tackle a running back for two and a half hours. The physicality with Baron, you just felt it after the game. I think with Ivy, when he matures and Cunningham, that's just going to be like a fucking beast of a backcourt.

Yeah, I mean, what do you make, quick aside, of Piston shutting down Cade? The shin surgery's out for the season. It's a Wemby play? Rosillo kind of winked at this when he was on my pod last week. There's been some rumors about it. I didn't know it was this bad.

I got to say, the shin thing is terrifying. That brings us back to Sam Bowie's shit from 40 years ago. Oh, no. The science is better now. The medical science is better. I guess, but you're talking shin, tibia. Those are pretty unusual injuries. That made me nervous.

Maybe it's preventive. I don't think it's a shutdown yet. I don't. What? No, he said that he's out for the season. He's getting the surgery. No, but I'm saying I don't think it's a Wembanyama shutdown. Oh, for Detroit.

For the Pistons. Yeah, because if they were in shutdown mode, you've got to trade Bogdanovich tomorrow. Well, I agree. You just got to get that fucking guy off the team. I agree. He's a really valuable asset. Yeah, get him out. Trade him. So, Ivy, I like that pick. Herb Jones, you've heard me talk about him

on the pod many times. His defense. You like his work. I really love the pieces on that team.'s so funny i a year ago a lot of people including myself were just torching griffin for the moves right zion was 300 pounds they blew the lonzo thing they signed davante graham it seemed like they had no plan at all and it just was like a catastrophe he nails that draft. They get Zion's head back into it, makes that really smart McCollum trade, gets Larry Nansen in too, who's a professional,

signs McCollum. In this current draft, gets Dyson Daniels, doesn't give up any of their assets. He went from, I thought he was doing one of the top five worst jobs from a GM to now you would put him in the top five for everything he's done the last year. And most important, they re-engaged Zion, which is by far the most important thing out of any of it. And Alvarado. I forgot Alvarado. He deserves the criticism for

hiring Stan Van Gundy. Yes, he does. But then deserves the praise for fixing that mistake. Yeah, he did. He fixed it in a year. He's like, this is a big mistake. I'm fixing this. So good job by Griffin.

Number 49 is Shaden Sharp. This is a little bit of a deep cut league pass. Not sure how focused people have been on second quarter Portland games. There's an athleticism with this dude. And you could go, go on YouTube and just Google like Shaden Sharp highlights.

Something's different about him. There's a hang time thing with him that is really, really, really unusual. And I don't know where it goes. He's taller. He's kind of Kobe's height, but he's bigger. He's 6'6", but he's a little bit bigger. But he can kind of hang around around the rim up in the air

in these different ways and really, really special. But also I like the way he carries himself. I like his three-point shot. They might really have something with that deal. It's interesting. You put a guy like this into this list and you look at all the names behind him and people will say that this is absurd. This is a classic. I guarantee the Portland fans will not

think it's absurd. But here's some telltale in addition to the athleticism you're describing. The guy has played in 26 professional basketball games and is shooting 47% from the field in his 20 minutes a game. Yeah. And over 30% from three, he's ready to play nba basketball he is playing nba basketball i mean i look at the guy that the washington wizards drafted and where i'm going to stop doing this but the comparison between what's shade and sharp looks like as a potential nba player and daniel so you're just like a pick late. But then unfortunately, Durin's good. Jalen Williams.

AJ Griffin is the one. AJ Griffin. So the thing was sharp. Six million a year, basically. They had him for four years. And I don't know, man. What I value in basketball, if you listen to all the pods and read me, really is

it's always the same, right. To watch this dude who's 19, who had this weird Kentucky season last year, and he comes on this team and the team's good. And he's already figured out how to get his 20 minutes a game and play pretty well and have some moments. I think that's so much more impressive than if you're on a shit team playing 30 minutes a game, putting up stats. He's already navigated how to matter on a good team or a decent team. If Kentucky hadn't been the kind of team they were last season, easy case for him as a potential number two overall pick. I mean, I know Chet did what he did and we saw Gonzaga on the big stage. If we had seen more Kentucky and we'd seen what was going on with that team on the stage, I think there might have been a case for Shaden as number two overall. I have a great comp for him that I'm not going to say in the pod. I'll save it for the piece. Number 48, Ben Matherin.

Indiana. I'm just pronouncing his name Matherin. Indiana. I'm just pronouncing his name Matherin. Listen, you know I have the speech dyslexia thing. He's just a guaranteed 20 to 25 a game. You know where this is going. Worst case scenario, he's just going to put up 20 to 25 a game. He plays with real energy. He seems like he can play any style.

I think he could fit on 25 teams in the league and be an asset in some way. And that was a great pick. And then the last one on this list is Jabari, just because first of all, real signs of life the last couple of weeks, just an unusual size. He can play the three or the four. He guards already. He plays real defense,

which doesn't really have him fitted on the four. He guards already. He plays real defense, which doesn't really have him fitted on the TV side now, unfortunately, but you can see it. I certainly don't think there's no bust potential with him at the very least. And I think there's a pretty high ceiling. Have you seen him yet? I haven't seen enough. I mean, I haven't gone out of my way to watch a lot of Houston. Probably a good move. All right. So then we have this next group. Oh, let's take a break. No preset spending limit. More cash on hand to grow your business with up to 55 interest-free days. And the ability to reach further with access to over 1,400 airport lounges worldwide.

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riding sets an example. Yeah, an example for me. Because safety is learned. It's learned. Okay, give it up. Give what up? Really? Really, really. This message is brought to you by Metrolinks. All right, this next group is the aforementioned

sorry is worth more to us than to you. And this is where I think we're going to put Kawhi and Chris Paul back in. And then after that, 47-41 was Jaron Jackson, OG Ananomi, Marcus Smart, DeJounte Murray, Chris Middleton, LeBron James, and Jamal

Murray. So one at a time, Jaron Jackson, the only reason he's not higher is there's been some health stuff with him. And he was weird in the playoffs last year. And he's young. I mean, what is he, 22, 23?

So there's some ceiling, but he's also like, he might just be a guy who's just like a 16 and six guy who blocks some shots. I don't really know yet. Good contract is like 25 million a year. It's right around the range, right? You quibble? No, I only, I think the ceiling is higher than you're giving him credit for.

I think the defense could be game-changing, but the important thing is that he stay healthy. He needs to be on the floor. He needs to be on the floor in the playoffs for this Memphis team, and it just remains to be seen. That's all. Okay, so this is right around the range.

OG Ananobi I did not have in the top 60, but defensively, he's just been awesome this year. Yeah. Really, really went up. Now, the Toronto fans are like, he's been this good for the last couple years. I disagree. I think he went up a level.

I think he's a slightly different guy this year. That team, I don't really know what's going on with that team. Something's missing and I can't put my finger on it. It's an ongoing thing with them. You know, they have nine guys that are 6'8". Right. And, you know, they've been trying this experiment for a couple seasons and they're right around 500.

Last year, they were kind of in the same spot at this point of the season then they went on a run um and a lot of it had to do with scotty barns i mean i i i don't know what's going to change uh for them to get them clicking but they're not clicking yet so annanoby and barn Barnes and two number ones for Durant. Does KD want to go play in Toronto? Probably not after they cheered when he heard his Achilles, but who hangs up faster for that one, though? The Nets.

Okay. I think you're right, the way Barnes has played this year. Number 45, Marcus Smart, just awesome contract and a guy that we know can be in playoff series out there for 35, 40 minutes guarding everybody and a ton of experience. There's really nobody like him. Even yesterday at the Clipper game, he guarded Kawhi, he guarded Paul

George, he guarded John Wall, he guarded Luke Kennard. There's nobody like him. 44, DeJounte Murray, who is as high as he is only because of his contract. It's still a cheap contract. He's like $16 million this year. Unfortunately, he drew the short straw. He has to be in Trey Young's backcourt. It hasn't gone

awesome. It is a real conundrum. That Atlanta situation is a mess. And I don't know whether or not we're going to get resolution to it this season. They might just end up being the 7 or 8 seed in the East

and knocked out in the first round and then use next offseason to try and fix this, but they got some issues. Murray's stats are pretty similar to last year, except his assists are down by three and his rebounds are down by three. But all his shooting stuff is the same. The points are the same.

Shooting a three-pointer even better, which makes sense because he's playing with Trey now. The usage is down a little bit, but not as much as I expected. In in general it's a weird combo and I'm not sure they had all these other moves to make before they made that move and even though the price was pretty fair but now they're in this John Collins

situation and then Bogdanovich what do you do with him I don't know it seems like they have three trades left Chris Middleton, LeBron and Jamal And then Bogdanovich, what do you do with him? I don't know. It seems like they have three trades left. Chris Middleton, LeBron, and Jamal Murray, we don't need to talk about them. Those are all key guys. I do want to talk about LeBron.

You really going to have him up here in the 40s? Well, he's been in the league for 20 years. I know, I got it. 40 plus million. He can't even be traded this year. And I don't know how many teams would actually want to trade for him because you have to assume he'd want to be happy to be on your team. Every team would want to trade for him. I'm sorry. No. I don't know. Memphis isn't trading for LeBron James. It would have to be a big city.

And he's not going to want to leave LA anyway. It's too risky. You can't trade for LeBron and then have him not want to go to your team. Well, that much is fine. You wouldn't do anything without his consent, but he's still, for every kind of measure we use for this artifice, he's still in the top 30, top 25. It's LeBron. All right.

So hold that thought. The next group is a bunch of young guys. LaMelo Ball, Chet Holmgren, Kate Cunningham, Scotty Barnes, Jalen Green, and Josh Giddey. That's absurd. So you're saying the teams that have those guys would be like, you know what would be a great idea if we traded

this guy for a year and a half of LeBron James under the circumstances under whatever the circumstances are of course so you think LeBron should be higher sort of in like the McHale Bridges range

yeah at least the McHale Bridges range he's 38 years old he's played for 20 years he's the most important player in the league yeah you might be right i i was so fixated on the age but then there's this thing this week about he wants to play somebody was saying he wants to play till he's 45 did you see that whole thing i guess he wants to do the Brady. Oh, God. Is he going to do TB12? Is he going on the program? I don't know.

I can't believe he's played this many minutes. He's outrageous. Only Kareem has played more minutes than him at this point. So good. All right, I'll move LeBron up. You've convinced me. Good. That next group, Lamello, Holmgren, Cunningham, Barnes, Jalen Green, and Giddey.

So I have Giddey as the best person in that group from an asset standpoint. I would add Cunningham, but the Cunningham shin thing. Chet, same thing. Lamello, we've never seen him on a good team now. At some point, I'd like to see that. Scotty Barnes fell. I think when I did this right before the season, I had him like in the

low 20s. You did. I just haven't been that impressed by him this year. I don't know what happened to him. There's still time. We're only a quarter in. This is why... Win us back, Scotty Barnes. Yeah, well, that's what I... The thing we were talking about with OG, like with Toronto, it's kind of a mess right now. Somebody's got to come

forward because Pascal Siakam's been great. And then Jalen Green and Giddy. See, this is like, I just don't think Houston is trading Jalen Green for LeBron James. That's an idiotic trade. Why would they do that? 20 is trading Jalen Green for LeBron James. Oh, my God. That's an idiotic trade. Why would they do that? It's absurd.

20 years of Jalen Green for a year and a half of LeBron? For what reason? Well, this version of Houston. Also, if the Lakers didn't do that, they should have their head examined. Because he's beloved. Because he's beloved. That's why. Because if LeBron James is playing home games in your city, every game's a sellout.

That's why. For like a year and a half. So what? It's worth it. I would love to see any Houston fans' reaction to, we've traded Jalen Green today for LeBron James. New plan. Wemba Nyama out.

LeBron, Sangoon, and Jabari Smith, we're going for it. That'd be insane. I don't disagree. We have to come up with a way for LeBron to be properly recognizing this thing. Jalen Green, this will be the last time. I think him and Giddy, this will be the last time they're not in the top 30. Yeah, I'm fine with that. Jalen Green, there's been enough flashes of him being the creator in a game where they're going toe-to-toe against somebody good and he's clearly

belongs as like the foil for whoever the other team's best guy is. He's still not hitting threes. I wanted him to get to in the 40s with threes. He's pretty far away. And then Giddy Giddy's a delight. We would have loved to play with Giddy. Oh,

awesome. Giddy, our holy cross runs, Giddy, we would have been like, Oh, Giddy's in the gym. Let's get on Giddy's team.

Yeah. You know, you're going to get touches. You're going to get great touches and great spots. Great touches and great spots. That should be the name of a massage place. Does that need an edit? No.

Josh Giddey? Bob Kraft was caught at Josh Giddey's last night? That's a good name. The next category is just like the elevated winning asset category. So you're saying LeBron's in there. I'm going to listen to you. We'll see what America thinks. At least. We've got Mikael Bridges, number 33.

We know you can win with Mikael Bridges, right? Yeah. You're making a face? Here's my problem. I can't get over. I still haven't unseen what Dallas did to Phoenix last year in the playoffs. And Mikael Bridges was a big part of what Dallas did to Phoenix last year in the playoffs. And Mikael Bridges was a big part of what Dallas did to Phoenix last year in the playoffs. He disappeared. It was a disappearing act.

He is a terrific, terrific, I mean, he's a winning asset. They won 64 games last year because Mikael Bridges is a winning asset. And, you know, they've lost their last four games in a row, but, you know, the nice start that they've had to the season, again, Mikael Bridges, nice regular season guy. What's Luka, who's the single hardest small forward to cover probably since LeBron and his peak? I get it.

One thing with Bridges, incredible contract. 21 this year, 21.7, 23.3, 24.9. So you're basically paying a $40 million guy half of what he's worth, which is where you want to be in the trade value list. Anthony Simons just bullied his way into the top 35. We were waiting.

We were waiting. We watched a lot of games of Anthony Simons on Portland. Portland trying to prop him up and then he wasn't ready. I had to pull him back down and they tried to prop him back over the last three seasons. They tried, you know, and here he is. And he, I think, you know what it is.

We had our guard up because Portland's tried to do this to us before with people like Rudy Fernandez. Great point. Great point. All these people who are going to be these awesome assets and never made it. But I watched, he had that 45 point game. Must've been like a week and a these awesome assets and never made it. I watched, he had that 45-point game, must have been like a week and a half ago, where he also made, I think it was against

Utah, where he also made the two best defensive plays. Maybe that was Saturday night. He's a dead-eye scorer. He has these runs where he just feels like he's scoring for five straight possessions. He plays really nice with Dame.

He'll have everyone for a while. He'll have a six-point box scorer. Like, what happened that night? But for the most part. That's right. And really good contract. $25 million a year, basically, for somebody that every year has gotten better.

So, love him. I was worried he was a good stats, bad team guy. But he's not. He's not. Neither is this next guy. Franz fucking Wagner. Man. You know, the Orlando guys are going to insist that

we redo rookie of the year last year. We're talking about the 2021-2022 season. Scotty Barnes won rookie of the year. That Franz should have won. We're going to the 2021-2022 season. Scottie Barnes won Rookie of the Year. That Franz should have won. We're going to hear that for the rest of his career. And as he gets better and continues to

reveal to us what he's capable of, we might end up agreeing. We're already down on Scottie Barnes, for Christ's sakes. The Warriors took Kamingo over him. And we both like Kamingo. But after watching Wagner on this Orlando team,

it's really hard for me to imagine Wagner wouldn't have fit in perfectly on that Golden State team. Like fucking perfectly. In related news, Bob Myers is waiting on a contract extension. Yeah, what was that story? Suspiciously timed right before the first ABC game of the year. And it's like, who's up for some GM gossip?

Wait, so he doesn't have a contract yet? It's fucking December. To me, that seemed like he wanted to float it out there for the Lakers. He went to UCLA. I felt like there was some Lakers stuff in there. As you know, I always try to figure out the agenda when this stuff comes out. Indeed.

Anyway, Franz Wagner, I think he could be a 25 points a game guy pretty soon, like in a couple years. It just depends on how Orlando evolves. I mean, they have three guys that could be 25-point guys. Who's the third guy?

You're not going to say Bobo, are you? No, no. I think like Wemby or something. Oh, the lottery pick-ex. I got you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's funny that Franz and Palo, it's kind of what we grew up with.

Remember there were these teams that had, you know, Denver had Alex English and Kiki Vandewey at the same time. It's like, look at these guys. One guy's averaging 27, the other guy's averaging 28. How does this work? It feels like a little bit like that

where they could just like go off with these two dudes. And they play well together. I actually like how they play. Number 30, Desmond Bain, who unfortunately got hurt, right, as he was having his official coming out party as an awesome, awesome, awesome player.

One of the things with him, he has a ludicrous contract. He was the 30th pick in the draft. So this is year three for him. And he's making a whopping $2.1 million. God. And then next year, $3.8 million.

And if they wanted, they could have him for $11 million as a cap hold in 2025. But ridiculous value. Proven playoff guy. And I think somebody that could be one of the three best guys on a finals team.

I don't think he'd be the second guy, but I think he'd be the one of the three best guys on a finals team. I don't think he'd be the second guy, but I think he'd be the third guy. I like that. I'm willing to concede the third guy. I'm willing to contemplate that. I'm not giving... Because he has the single most important skill in this league,

in this version of the league, the way basketball is played right now. Can you make a basket when you're staring at the basket? And the answer is yes, he can do that. You can switch with him on D. He showed some creation stuff this year. We talked about it with Verno a couple weeks ago.

They were able to initiate the offense with him, which I just wasn't expecting. I didn't think he had that in him. So he's on there. And then the last guy on this list, who we can have an argument in one second, but Darius Garland, who just hit the lottery.

And by the way, he's great anyway, but I mean, to have Mobley and then Mitchell, and this is just like, these are your two guys now with Jared Allen. Like that's just like, what better situation for a point guard? And he's a real point guard. Where did we have Garland on this list a year ago?

Not this high. He was like in the 40s. So the point you just made is the right one, which is Donovan Mitchell basically grabbed him by the shorts and pulled him down. Not didn't pull his shorts down, but just pulled him down into this kind of rarefied air in terms of a trade value space.

Top 30 trade value. We have him at 29. In the deepest year we've probably had. Yeah. Yeah. So he's 8.9 this year, but then he signed an extension and the extension was for five years, 194, which is the only reason I didn't have him higher than this because he is going to be making money. What I love about him is how unselfish he is. And I actually think he'd be fun to play with. I think he's like a little bit of an old school point guard. His perfect game is like 19 and 9 and he hits one big three in the last three minutes

and just moves the ball and keeps a certain speed to the game. He's the kind of point guard we don't really have anymore. The only knock on him is he needs a scorer. This is why Cleveland didn't go anywhere in the playoffs last year. But I don't know if he's that guy. He needs a scorer. He needs a scorer. Yeah, you're right. Well, he got one. Right. He did. And he gets to play with Evan Mobley. He should handcuff his leg to Evan Mobley's leg when they're not playing together

just to make sure Evan Mobley doesn't go anywhere. I'd just be like, I am your Tony Parker. Take me with you wherever you go. Next category has two people. One of them is Trey Young and the other is Carl Anthony Towns. They're in this group because I don't think they're available

but I also don't think the team hangs up if you're calling about them they're both very tough players to project. Now, Trey did, very early in his career, drag a team into playoffs. It was a super weird playoffs. He did.

They got to the third round. But he did that. He did it. 29 a game, and we all loved it. And he acted like he belonged. He won big games on the road and he talked the talk and walked the walk. The problem is it doesn't seem like he's that player. He can do that every night on a regular season basis.

And maybe you don't want that from him. So then what's the situation? Which is why I think it was pretty smart of Atlanta to bring in Murray. Because it's an insurance policy between Bogdanovich and Murray. They've created

kind of a safe place. An insurance policy to trade Trae Young? Well, to let let's really see what version of this team is best. Is it with Trey Young or not? Now, whatever the coach thing is, has to get...

It's just two coaches in a row that there's been some weirdness with. They also, they're the number one team for me. If we're doing the Olympics for bad body language this season, Atlanta is either a gold medalist or a silver medalist. You catch them on the wrong night, you're like, oh, what's going on?

What happened? Is there a fight at Denny's last night at two in the morning? What's going on? The John Collins signing remains somewhat confounding because it feels to me like... Yeah, because then it leads to the Herter trade, which is like Herter's actually somebody

who could be in a playoff series. I don't even know what position John Collins is. And he continues to be in trade rumors. Yeah. What was the point of it? What were they doing?

Were they hamstrung? Did they have to do it? They couldn't get anything for John Collins? New owners. Yeah. And then Towns at 27. Look, statistically,

looks great. Awesome basketball reference page. He had one of the dumber playoff series I've seen against Memphis, which we talked about in this podcast a lot. Just very bizarre, up and down, strange decisions in the fourth quarter. He's hurt now. Doesn't fit with Gobert. I think that's even a more bizarre combo.

I don't want to rehash stuff we've already talked about on the pod, but has a huge extension coming is the other piece of him. That's the problem. And it's even kind of worse than the Beal thing because I don't even know what your outs are. So if you're Minnesota, you're going to be basically paying in 2025, 50 million, 26, 54 million, 27, 58 million. And then he has a player option in 28 for 62.062 million, which I'm pretty sure he's already good at exercise. Yeah. Right now he is at 33 million and he can't be traded until July.

Oh, he has a 10% trade bonus. So if you trade for him, it's 10% higher than that. He 28 might be too high for him or 27. You know, he really shouldn't be on the list. He doesn't have trade value. Well, that is, he's 24 and 12 a night. He doesn't have trade value. He's 24 and 12 a night. That's a poison pill contract.

If you're like Charlotte, I don't know. So you can get to the second round of the playoffs? There's like four franchises where he would make sense. And it's in that category. It's the Charlottes and the Washingtons of the world.

He would make perfect sense. He'd be great in Washington. Beale for Towns? Done. I think you have to throw in something. You're throwing in something else. Not anything good. You having a root for Towns would be one of the funniest things that's happened since I've known you.

Talking yourself into him. Towns was unbelievable last night. What are you talking about? I would immediately talk myself into it. Next group. First time in trade value history, been doing this idea, I think since like 1999 or 2000. The 14% chance for Victor Wimbledyama is number 26 on this list. The rights to any probable top five pick, it's like 14%, 14%, 12.4%, and like 10.3%, something like that. So just an above 10% chance to get Wimpy Yama is the 26th trade asset in the league right now.

It's crazy valuable. You can't even joke about it. I know you're making a joke. I know it's light. It's not valuable. You can't even joke about it. I know you're making a joke. I know it's light. It's not a joke. It is franchise altering. It is your contention trajectory. It's everything.

Let's take a break. We'll do the top 25. All right, so top 25. This guy might move back. Let's talk about him. Number 25, Brandon Ingram. Back in what direction? What do you say back?

Should he be in that kind of where Simons and Franz Wagner are like in that 30 to 32 range? Because I don't think Cleveland would trade Darius Garland for Brandon Ingram. I just think I have them like five spots too high. Man. I don't think Minnesota would trade towns for him.

I kind of do. You do? Yeah. Maybe I miss reading Minnesota. I mean, Minnesota is impossible to get a read on. I think I'm going to move him back

five spots, Brandon Ingram. Also, like, I don't, I don't think Orlando would trade Franz Wagner

for Brandon Ingram. I don't either. So that's a perfect spot for him. It was a put out. So I'm going to move him back to the low 30s.

Do like Brandon Ingram. I do wonder though, if the Pelicans look at this and really start to wonder if you put KD in that Brandon Ingram spot, can you win the title? Could you actually win the title with the way Zion's playing now

with your role players? Could you just say, fuck it? Let's actually win the title. The West is still open. That's super hard. KD is a true conundrum because the thing I would be worried about as the Pelicans is chemistry. Right. And whether it's happening

in New Orleans. What have we seen out of KD over the last half decade that suggests that he's a go along, get along. Long-term stability kind of guy. Long-term stability and just happiness. Yeah, you're right. They're better off probably not doing anything this year,

but the Ingram spot, with all the picks they have, they could upgrade into somebody in this 20. The rest of this group, this is group B. Pascal Siakam, Paul George, Dame Lillard, Donovan Mitchell, Drew Holiday, and Bam Adebayo. I admittedly rank

Holiday too high. I just feel like, as I've said a million times, like, I want guys who I know can be guys that I can win a title with. Win a title.

And we've seen him now in too many playoff series. He's too destructive. He's too good defensively. He checks every box in the Olympics. Save our ass. We fucking love Drew Holiday. So, one good defensively. He checks every box in the Olympics. Save our ass. We fucking love Drew Holiday.

So, one at a time, Siakam. Remember you, me, and Waz? Didn't we do, like we said, he was the worst contract? What a run for Siakam. 2022, a rollercoaster ride. Ever since then, told us to stuff it, to stick it up our ass. He really did. He's been great.

His contract, I think, is pretty reasonable. Hold on, I to stick it up our ass. He really did. He's been great. His contract I think is pretty reasonable. I'm calling it up. He admitted that he had an attitude issue. He had to get on the same page. He had a bad offseason. He had a little bit of an injury and then they all got on the same

page right around the time that we did that podcast with Watt. He's been a menace. 35 million this year, 37 million next year. Fair. He has some bonuses

if he hits all NBA second team, first team, shit like that too. Paul George, number 23. I think he's in his early 30s now. Huge contract, but you watch a game like last night where

they're bringing against the Celtics. It's like, you know who's good to have on your team? Paul George. The 6'8 guy who can shoot threes and handle the ball and play defense. And really can't be defended. 96% of the league can't really defend him. Especially in the regular season.

I think he has... the most or the second most third-team All-NBAs. Feels right. I don't know if that is that... Pull that thing up. Yeah, he has the most third-team All-NBAs ever. Five. It kind of feels right.

I joked on Twitter that Adam Silver was going to give out 13-mile NBA trophies called the Joe Johnson Trophy. Uh-oh. I looked it up. He only had one 13-mile NBA, Joe Johnson. Paul George had five. It's the Paul George Trophy. The Paul George Trophy.

The 13-mile NBA trophy. That's not even a knock. By the way, if you're one of the 15 best players in the league five times, and he was first team all NBA, so six times, he's been one of the 15 best players in the league.

That's not nothing. Let's go. Like, I was looking at some of the other ones. Reggie Miller and Ray Allen, people like that, who I think people think are among the greatest players of all time. And Ray Allen was like one second team, one third team. They're just great shooters.

That was, you know, it's not a knock to say that they were incredible shooters. Yeah. Vince Carter, one second team, one third team. That's right. We know that. We second team, one third team. That's right. We know that. We watch it with our own eyes. Tom Chambers, two second team on BAs. These were all really good players.

Alex English. He was three second team on BAs. That's one second team all NBA, too high for Tom Chambers. Jermaine O'Neal, one second team, two third teams. Yeah, but anyway, Paul George putting up six. Pretty good. Yeah. but anyway, Paul George putting up six. Pretty good. Yeah.

Damn. Huge contract. Massive. Just ridiculously expensive. He's in the 50s and with an extension. But then he hit 11 threes last night. I mean, he's healthy. He's good.

We were worried. We hadn't seen him healthy in like 18 months, but he's shown enough, I think, the last six weeks that I feel okay, and I feel okay having him top 25. Also, one of the rare guys who means a shitload to his city. That's it.

He's synonymous with Portland. It doesn't matter what the contract is. He had so many opportunities. It was reported that he was interested. He was like, those reports are all garbage. I'm never leaving. I love it here. I'm staying.

I'm the guy here. I love what's going on. I'm going to make it work. And that's pretty good. I want to win a title here. It's great. Holiday 20 and then bam out of bio 19. What about Donovan Mitchell?

Oh, Donovan Mitchell 21.. What about Donovan Mitchell? Oh, Donovan Mitchell, 21. Good comeback for Donovan Mitchell. I would not have had him in the top 25 before this season because we hadn't seen him play defense since before the pandemic. And guess what? Guess what? He knows how to play defense and he has long arms.

And when he's really engaged with his team, it's like, oh, cool. Donovan Mitchell's a two-way player again. So why wasn't he engaged with his team? This is why I think it's not far-fetched to put Rudy Gobert into the dishonorable match. I'm all for blaming Rudy Gobert for anything. So you like that order?

Dame 22, Mitchell 21, Holiday 20, out of Bio 19? I mean, I don't know what the defining Bam moment is. I'm not sure that I could point to like, oh, Bam took the field what the defining Bam moment is. I'm not sure that I could point to like, oh, Bam took the field. You'd move him back. Yeah. What's my defining? Where is the series where I say? They've had a lot of success with that dude.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he's. You're going to have. No, heat culture is going to come after you now. Heat culture? What are you talking about? The heat cultured people who every time Miami wins they go, heat culture! And then they're like 12 and 17.

Where do they have 10? How many people are on the heat culture bandwagon? Who is that? You can see them in the stands. There's like at least 12 of them. Those seats? Those empty seats? One thing with BAM, great contract.

30.3 this year, 32.6, 34.8, 37.1. He's a top five center in the league. So I don't want to be misunderstood. I recognize. I think that's the right spot for him. I think I value him a tiny bit more than you because I've had my team go against him for six games, seven games in a playoffs, he's a fucking bitch to play against

he really like that little floater he has, he's great at these illegal screens that they never call he's a really good defensive player I will confess my bias at the end of all of those games it's always Jimmy with the ball it's always Jimmy that you want with the ball

they're not running anything for Bam I mean, you know, he might have some cleanup stuff. So that's the bias. I'm confessing it. Heat culture. I'm acknowledging my blind spot when it comes to Bam. This next group is three very young possible franchise guys. Tyrese Halliburton, 18, Anthony Edwards, 17, and Palo, 16. Is that the right order of those three? Palo, 16, Anthony Edwards, 17, Halliburton, 18. Man. I would have Edwards as close to the top 15 as possible. I think Anthony Edwards is just...

We have enough sample size out of him. The other two guys, not enough quite yet. I mean, definitely not with Paolo. We've only seen 28 professional basketball games that have, where he, he was even eligible and he's already been hurt a little bit.

And Halliburton, you know, he, he had to acclimate to the, to the Pacers a little bit. I think he's, I think he's settled in now. I think he feels comfortable. Jesus.

He's so good. I really think I always loved him, and I definitely own a lot of Hal Burton stock. I never thought he could be a franchise guy until this year because he's completely changed. There's a selflessness to that team. And I think he comes from him and from Carlisle, how good of an offensive coach he is. But to even see people like Buddy Heald, who was never like an awesome teammate and didn't

seem like that fun to play with. And they were always trying to trade him. And even he's kind of bought in. I don't know. There's a vibe to them I like. Yeah, because the Pacers are going to make the playoffs in the East now. Yeah. Your team's probably going to sell out, right?

They should. They have no chance. Their best opportunity is to fight for the 10, so they have a chance to make the play. They're in the 12-seed slot right now, Washington. They have no chance. Indiana's

500. Puts them right in the mix for 5, 6, 7, 8. Yeah, right now the Pacers are 8th, 14 and 14. So really the Bulls or the Wizards would be the two threats for them. Miami's 13 and 15. I can't believe Toronto's 13 and 14. We did the over-under pod. We thought high 40s minimum for them. They're on my lock list, if you look it up.

I still think I spent a lot of money. I invested in getting over 46 wins because I thought that win total was low. I thought they sorted out that 6-8 wing. They have all these guys that are between 6'8 and 6'10 and that they sorted it out last year. I think part of the problem might be Van Vliet and I would love

for them to get another shooter. I want them to be a buyer in the upcoming trade market. I don't know who they could get. It would have been Kevin Harder, but he's not available. He's never going to be available. I want them to get a shooter.

They need somebody who can knock down threes. It would be a nice thing to see from Scotty Barnes. It's not his game. Yeah, he went backwards this year. So we'll go Halbert and Paolo Edwards. Just quickly on Paolo. Wow. Wow.

NBA guy. I'm already on pods, but Jesus. NBA guy. Just size and speed. You don't usually see the 6'10 guys with a first step like that. It really comes easy to him. Way better as a rookie than I expected from him. All right. The next group has five people, Jimmy Butler, Jalen Brown, Anthony Davis, Shea Gilgis-Alexander, Kevin Durant. And there's some shockers all the way around here. Now, Butler is incredibly expensive. So when you hear that list, you're like, wait, why is Jalen Brown a better trade asset than Jimmy Butler? The answer is Jimmy Butler's contract, and I think he's 33 years old, $37.6 million this year, signed extension $45, $48.7, $52.4 in 2026. Jalen's 25 million a year. So he's basically almost half the price of Jimmy Butler. And Butler's already missed 10 games, 10 out of the 28 games.

Jalen's way more durable and they've had pretty much similar playoff success. Jimmy's a little higher because of the finals, but Jalen was Boston's most reliable little higher because of the finals. But, you know, Jalen was Boston's most reliable player in last year's finals. So I think when you throw in the age, Jalen's

eight years younger than Jimmy Butler. I don't think that's an argument. I wanted to make an argument for Butler to get pushed down a group or two. Yeah, you can't. You cannot.

You cannot. He's got to be in the top 15. He does. I mean, he's just he's a one of one as a playoff dog. So then people would argue, well, why isn't LeBron higher then? If we're doing the playoff dog thing, which was your argument you made before. Yeah, I argued for it. I think

LeBron should be higher. It's tough because, no. He's not ahead of... It's tough because... No, he's not in this tier. But it speaks to your LeBron argument. I think LeBron being in the league 20 years just, I think, threw me off with the ranking. I'm going to put him lower. Jalen Brown, 14. Davis

at 13. Davis was right in that Trae Young... He was in Trae Young's spot next to Towns in that weird group as the hey any interest but he's been kicking ass and they're finally learning play with speed with him put him around

the rim a little bit he's a little more engaged defensively he's been really good good contract too he's only got two years left I want him to drag them into what seed is the right seed for the lakers to exceed expectations good question is it is it a five seed no they they're not getting there they're already they're 11 and 15 they're they have so much work left but they they they started the season like though, with only two wins. New Orleans, Memphis, Denver,

and Phoenix, I just think are going to get to 50 plus wins. Probably right. Those four teams. The only one that's vulnerable there is Phoenix. Then you get Sacramento, Portland, Clippers, Dallas, Golden State.

See, I would put Clippers where you have Phoenix, and I would have Phoenix in the five. I just don't know what I'm getting from Kawhi, Clippers, see, I would put Clippers in where you have Phoenix and I would have Phoenix in the five seed. Well, I just don't know what I'm getting from Kawhi, but yeah, I think the Lakers are going to be like a nine or a ten seed.

And if you go through all the teams in that list, they basically have to take the spot of Sacramento, Portland, or Utah just to get in that top ten. That's not,

you're not asking for a lot. Utah you think will, Utah will probably phase out. They sure are. And then Minnesota's kind of lurking too. I asked that question because I wanted to know

how often I ought to be doing small increments on Anthony Davis to win the league MVP if over the last 40 games of the season, the Lakers,

he is the animating force, the energy behind them getting up to that five seed territory. I don't think they're not going to jump over Phoenix, but they're like six seed, I guess, maybe. So I'm not allowed to bet on this, but we love talking about it. Davis is still 35-1. God. I just want to do small increments. What was he last week? Because you and I talked about this last week, too.

Less than 20. He was right around in between 16 and 20-1. I might have got him even a tiny bit of 24-1. Tatum's the favorite at plus 270. Out of the long shots, I can't believe I'm saying this, but Jokic at 27 to one is great. No chance. I'm not doing it anymore.

You just can't. Denver is good though. I know, but people will not do Jokic. The other one that I think has to be considered is Davis at 35 to one. I mean, I'm sorry, Duran at 35 to one. Just because Brooklyn's 17 and 12,

and there's a world in this season where they just win 55 games and he averages 34 a game. I don't even want to say what's going to happen because we know what's going to happen. Yeah, we know what's going to happen. I wouldn't bet that. I wouldn't bet that because Kyrie would have screwed up. Well, that's

not even the risk proposition. It's Kevin Durant plays 55 games a season. He's not eligible for these awards because he doesn't get the requisite threshold. And I don't even really think he should. I do think it makes sense for him to rest, for him to be prepared for the playoffs. Just get in the tournament.

The guy that's going to carry the water for them if they really are going to do it is Ben Simmons. He's the guy. I just threw up in my mouth. One more 35 to one shot for you. Zion Williamson. I don't want to do anything. You don't want to talk about this.

I don't. I don't. It's like we're at a blackjack table. We just want some hands and we're like, hey, so how about those bets? We don't want don't know it's it's like we're at a blackjack table we just want some hands and we're like hey so how about those bets we don't want them to change we don't want them to change the dealer we like the dealer that we have at that blackjack table he looks amazing he not only does he look amazing no i'm not talking about his basketball i'm talking about as a physical specimen but i'm talking beyond the basketball beyond the physical specimen he's

got his fuck you back I didn't know where his fuck you went his fuck you was gone for two years the windmill dunk is my favorite thing of the season maybe my favorite movement of this whole season he's demolishing dudes and he's making the fuck you face after and he's like looking over the bench

like this you can believe that guy tried to guard me like yeah there's and he's making the fuck you face after. And he's like looking over at the bench. Like this, you can believe that guy tried to guard me. Like there's like, he's like seeping. Fuck you. Yeah. I love it so much. I've missed him. I've missed watching him. I'm so glad he's back. But those two Phoenix games, which I watched as much as I possibly could have both this teams didn't like each other. The Suns hate Alvarado. Did you see that little elbow Chris Paul whipped at him? It's so good. They were talking shit in the court and Zion was basically bully balling them for two games.

He was like, you got fucking guys. Get out of here. It's what you said. It's 50 gallons of fuck you right there, Zion. I loved it. It's terrific. Yeah. Nobody's allowed to bet on Zion 35 to 1.

Let's pretend it's not happening. I hope and pray it continues It's terrific. Yeah. Nobody's allowed to bet on Zion 35 to 1. Let's pretend it's not happening. I hope and pray it continues. Davis 13. SGA at 12. What a miraculous run for him. And he just keeps doing it. He's still crushing it. Outrageous how talented he is.

He's right where he belongs. Top 12 can take over any game that he plays in and be the best player on the floor and you need to see it you need to watch him do it he literally i mean he's a top 12 it's just a top 12 i don't i mean i can't go beyond that you know philly could have drafted him. Who would they take instead? Mikael Bridges. And then they traded Mikael Bridges for Zyra Smith in a future first. The Philly fans.

That's one of their... They'll never get over that. They'll never get over it. Tough one. And then Durant at number 11, which is basically around where he's been for us. That's fair. That's fine. All season.

Yeah. All right. We're down in the top 10. Separated into two groups. The untouchables and the completely and utterly untouchables. Number 10,

Joel Embiid. Fine. Could win the MVP this year if he stays healthy. He's doing like the early 2000 Shaq. Joel Embiid had 53 points last night and not even blinking. And that makes sense

because he did it last season. Yeah, he seasons us. The injury longevity piece with him is always going to make me nervous. It just is. It just is. Zion Williamson, I have it number nine.

Dramatic. If it was like, if they had, when you can look at stocks and the stocks go up and you look at Facebook and it's like, whoa,

or Netflix. Whoa, Netflix was at 680. Now, whoa, and then it went down to 180. Now it's at 300. That's been Zion's stock

the last like five years. He might be Bitcoin. Now, that's insulting to Zion. He's more like... Bitcoin was over $65,000 a coin. Yeah, but now you wouldn't want it. I'd want Zion.

I don't know what stock he is. Maybe tweet at house. Tell him what stock Zion is. Holy shit though. I'm just so glad. It really seemed like it was over a year ago. Maybe I'm too cynical as I get older, but when he put on all the weight and he's wearing the sweatshirts, I thought we were done.

We didn't think it was over. It's just, we couldn't, you can't see the way to him getting his head right because I'm an over as like an impact superstar. So giant fat guy with a foot problem not very encouraging when you sit and look at it oh the foot problem that that should have had him back by christmas and then it was trade deadline and then it was the whole season and we kept seeing pictures of him being a giant fat guy. Yeah, it was not encouraging. So I'm with you. I don't disagree whatsoever. And the thing that is such a wonderful development is somebody got in his ear,

or maybe his own self. He just grew up. He's a kid. Maybe he grew up. He's like, I am going to stop eating all this terrible food, and I'm just going to get lean. And what I really love to do, and I think he said some of this in some of these interviews,

I love to play basketball and go kill people on the basketball court. And I think he confessed that he lost that desire a little bit over the course of the previous year. And now he makes the fuck you face again. 25, 7, and 4. He's shooting 61%, and he's shooting 36% from 3. the fuck you face again. 25, 7, and 4. He's shooting 61%. And he's shooting 36% from 3. Now, he does make a lot of 3s,

but when he shoots them during these games, I think they're going in. Sure. That's a great shooting percentage for a guy his size with his skill set. Two years ago, he was 8.7 free throw attempts. You know I love free throw attempts. This year, 7.7 and climbing.

Sure. Yeah. The thing with him, it actually reminds me of Tyreek Hill. There's just nothing you can really do. You can throw the multiple guys at him. He's out there. The other team is just concerned the entire time.

There's moments when like the little, like not fast breaks, but like the semi transition when it's like four on three, but all of a sudden you realize he's got a head of steam. Get out of the way. And you could see the other team like, fuck. Yeah.

That's a bucket. Him and Embiid just physically. And Giannis would be the third. We have these three just fucking specimens this year that are just like can get to where they want. And then Davis when he wants to be like that. So I have nine. Now we could argue about having Mobley here at number eight.

I'm admittedly, I own the most Mobley stock. I am the biggest Mobley super fan there is. The reason I have a mate in Zion 9 is because I just think Mobley, knock on wood, I'm going to knock on everything. It reminds me of like the Duncan and KG, like these guys that just, they seem like they're built for these 100 game seasons, 90 game seasons. It's just there's an ease that he's going up and down the court.

All his decisions are easy. He's just low stress. I just feel like he's headed for 1,700 regular season games. So I think you do overvalue him. I would put him in that category with Halliburton and Edwards and Paolo. I think that's the right class for him and the caliber of player that that he is the sample size remains way too small yeah unmobily and he has the benefit of an unbelievably good stable cleveland situation which is a hilarious thing to say not anything that anybody would have said

uh about the cleveland cavaliers up to the last two years. And the move that he made. 21 years old. Yeah. I mean, he's 21 and his contract, that rookie contract, is impeccable. So Zion's on already like some form of the extension because he came in early. Deserved it. Deserved it.

Yeah, he's on the minimum extension still. But I mean, the Mobley case is the age and the contract. I just think in terms of impact, he belongs with Halliburton and Anthony Edwards and Paolo. Zion is $33 million and $24 million. It goes all the way to $44 million and $28 million, which seems super risky when they did it and now seems a lot less risky.

Worth every penny. Another David Griffin masterpiece. I'm happy with being accused of overvaluing Evan Mobley. Put that on my tombstone. I'm making the fuck you Zion face to everybody else. I just value what he does. I think you win titles with guys like him. And defensively, he's at a whole other level than Zion. That's the other thing. Like as a two-way guy, as a forward, as somebody that can either play five or four, play small ball with him.

Those things are true. I just love him. And he's going to start making threes about two years from now, and that's going to change everything. He's not even, he can't smell Zion's jock offensively. Talent-wise, though, I think he's a way safer health bet, though. Okay.

That's a reasonable observation. Talent-wise, Zion should be in the top group. Top five. Yeah, he should. Number seven, Devin Booker. Now, you could argue this is a whiff too high, too, but here's the thing.

Best two guard in the league. He's won and been either the best or second best guy on legitimately crazy successful teams. And I think he means a lot to Phoenix in that area. I thought it was really interesting in telling during the Durant trade rumors how that was one of the... The Celtics didn't do this with Jalen. That was one of the only cities where everybody,

our guy Eddie Johnson was one of them. Like, we're not fucking trading Devin Booker. What are you talking about? There's no way that trade's happening. Take his name out of your mouth. It was like one of those. Devin Booker is going to be a retiring Phoenix guy. So that makes

his trade value a little bit harder to figure out. Yeah. I mean, the only quibble I would have is like, he's ahead of Kevin Durant. He's ahead of he's ahead of... He's like seven years younger than Durant. I know. I know. I know.

From a health standpoint, safer bet than an Embiid or Zion. That's why you can't say those guys. I know, I know, I know. From a health standpoint, safer bet than an Embiid or Zion. That's why you can't say those guys. And he's proven unlike Mobley. But listen, I will fully admit Mobley and Booker might be too high. And you could argue Embiid and Williamson. You could flip Mobley and Booker

and you could flip Embiid and Williamson and we're probably in the same spot. Maybe I'll end up doing that. Number six is John Morant. The question is whether he should be in this next group. That's the last group. And I went back and forth. I had him where he was in the last group.

I had him where he was the leader of the second to last group. And it keeps coming back to me to, to, he just makes me nervous how he plays. Yep. That's it. And I don't know how else to put it. No NBA player makes me more nervous than him

watching him on my television. Was it on your podcast? Was it you or one of your guests who said they just want him to subject him to tape of Derrick Rose, to watch Derrick Rose? I was talking about it because I watched this game two weeks ago where he intentionally missed a free throw and then he just

flung his body forward into three people. You can't do that. It reminds me Sunday, Sal and I were talking about Debo Samuel and how they used Debo Samuel and it's like at some point, you're just testing

it. After the 28th time you've run him over the middle where he gets hit by four guys like at some point this isn't going to work and I feel that the greatest thing about Joss how hard he plays now reckless he is and it's the thing that scares me so I don't know whether he should be in this next group or right here but he certainly is it's he's no less important to the Memphis than Tatum is to Boston. No, no, no. They're the same age, basically. I think he's a year younger.

Every one of these top six have that same attribute. I got to think about it some more. I think I'm going to end up moving him to the next group, but I want to mull it over more. I got to look at his game space. There's only, to me, one candidate that you would flip him with. Tatum?

I'll let you go through the list. All right. The last five I have, Tatum, Curry, Jokic, Doncic, and Giannis. Yeah. I would potentially flip Ja for Curry. That would be the only one, and that's just a function of Steph being where he is career-wise

and where he is, you know, what's the mileage that's left and what makes the most sense for him in terms of playing over the course of the regular season. That's all. I'm not knocking Steph Curry, for Christ's sakes, but we're trying to split hairs on this.

This last group, I think you forgot the point of this last group. The other team's just hanging up. You're an AGM in the league. You're an AGM in the league and you're calling Golden State. And you're like, hey, I want to talk about trading for Steph Curry.

And they hang up and they laugh. Why don't you make this group six players? Ja is untouchable. Yeah, I think he is. I think you're right. He's literally untouchable. And whether you have him ahead of Jason, you can't put him ahead of Jason Tatum because Jason Tatum was the best player on a team that

played in the finals and gave Golden State a legit challenge. Ja's not at that level yet. And he's been the best player on the best team this season, last two games accepted. By the way, I was talking to my dad about it today. I was like, if the Celts beat the Lakers tonight, they're 4-2 on the road trip.

Take it. Successful road trip. So, Ja 6, Tatum 5. I think Curry has to be 4 because, first of all,

he's still fucking incredible and we have no idea how long he's going to be incredible. But, the connection he has with Golden State is the most meaningful

player-city connection. They would never trade him. I mean, it's not more meaningful. Him or the Golden Gate Bridge who gets traded. It's not more meaningful than Dame to Portland because of the Portland- No, it is because of the titles. Yeah, you win titles with somebody that's different.

Think about your team. You still love Wes Unseld and Elvin Hayes and Bobby Dandridge. They won when you were 10. I have my Elvin Hayes jersey. It's going to go up over this shoulder. You're the Elvin Hayes' last defender. This is I take down the Manute Bull jersey. I'm going to put up the Elvin Hayes jersey.

So Curry four and then the last three are just the best year-to-year three guys in the league. Safest Betts, Jokic, Doncic, and Giannis. It's funny, you could make the case that any of the last three could be the first guy. Sure. Because Jokic is like, how many years in a row can he just go 25, 12, and 8

and be at a 50-win team? And then Luka is the youngest out of those dudes. But Giannis to me has to be number one. The league still goes through Giannis. We need another reinvention out of Luka. We got a reinvention out of him.

We asked him to not drink sweet tea and have nachos all summer long in the summer leading up to the summer. And he didn't. And he played in that Euro Basketball Championship thing and was incredible in that, and he showed up in shape. But this Dallas team

sucks. They're not fun to watch. They continue playing at the slowest pace in the entire league. They rely on him so much, they're trying to not have him get tired, but I don't think it's good for him. It's not his fault.

Exactly. It's not. And it's not his fault. It's a design problem. And I don't have the answer. It's funny. You remember this happened with LeBron, where LeBron, the first Cleveland stretch, and he was stuck on these teams where he was basically doing this Kobe-Jordan isoball impersonation.

And it wasn't his fault. It was just the teams he ran. But it was like, man, there's so much more here. When is he being on a team, a real team that cuts and has ball movement and uses all the pieces of him? And then he went to Miami and then they finally kind of found that at some point during the Miami run. And he got to use all the pieces of him.

And I do feel the same way about Luka. I'm not sure. I don't know how many years away from seeing that. There's a whole I just wish they were running more and that he was using his passing skills and all that stuff. Everything is slow down.

Christian Wood could run. I'm just saying look at the guys on the team. It doesn't even make sense. So Giannis, I think this is his third straight year as the number one guy. Best player in the league

as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, I think this goes back to... I have some money on him for MVP this year. Yeah. All right, so the big ones. You think Morant should move up into the final group.

You'd flip Edwards with the Banchero Halliburton combo. I pushed Evan Mobley down. I pushed Evan Mobley down. I'm not listening to that. I'm just telling you that. Nah, nah, I'm not listening.

Nah, nah, nah. Uh, and you think LeBron should go up way higher, way higher. Yes. Way higher for LeBron.

And we're going to get Toronto would trade Pascal Siakam for him? No. I don't. Yeah. Alright. I'll figure it out. This is fun. It's always fun. It's always fun. I'm glad we did it. Great exercise. Congratulations to Julius Randle. So who am I bumping

to make room for Julius Randle? Is it Rudy Gobert? You could bump... I told you Gobert belongs in dishonorable mention. Well, what did he do? He just signed a contract and he does what he does.

It happens. It happens sometimes. He can't get along. That's what he did. He can't get along with his teammates. And he gave the world COVID. Those are the he did. He can't get along with, with, with his teammates. And he gave the world COVID. Those are the two things.

He's the face of, he gave the world COVID. He's the face of, he's the face of, he's the face of the world shutting down. When Rudy Gobert. He is. That's true.

I just said it. That is. No, you're right. He is. Dishonorable mention. Dishonorable mention. All right.

Joe House, a pleasure as always. Thanks for helping us out. This podcast was produced by Kyle Creighton, and we will see you on this feed on Thursday. Don't forget to listen to House on East Coast Bias, by the way, on Tuesdays on the Ring of Gambling Show, and then on Fridays as well with our guy,

Sharpie himself, Warren Sharp. Good to see you, House. Great times, times. Yes.