The Bill Simmons Podcast - The Beal Dilemma, KD Trade Speed Round, and Free Agency Questions With Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: June 27, 2022

The Ringer's' Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to discuss the Wizards options regarding Bradley Beal’s contract, fake Kevin Durant trades, teams to watch out for during free agency, updated 2023 NBA title odds, best landing spots for Deandre Ayton, and more (0:00). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Ryen Russillo Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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90 calories per 355 mil can. So why not grab some Miller Lites today? Your game time tastes like Miller time. Must be legal drinking age. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. We have a new Rewatchables coming on Monday night. You're not going to expect this one. I will give you two hints. One is that the movie came out 10 years ago. And two is that it's on Netflix right now. So there you go. Those are your two hints. Also, here's the third hint. It's Dave Jacoby's first appearance ever on the rewatchables. So there you go. You might be able to patch this one together if you know anything

about Jacoby, but that is coming Monday night. Coming up on this podcast, Ryan Russillo and I are going to talk about July 1st, free agency and where that is going. By the way, I would highly recommend Derek Thompson's podcast, Plain English. Friday, talked about the ramifications of Roe v. Wade. I hope you have been reading and listening and thinking about how the country has changed in the last 72 hours. We are not going to be talking about that on this podcast. I just want to talk basketball. It could be a little escape, but over the course of the summer, we will be talking about some of the stuff on this podcast, but not right now. We're going to talk basketball. It's next, first pro jam.

All right, taping this. It is 4.30 PT on a beautiful Sunday afternoon here in Southern California. Ryan Rossello is here, as always. Only a couple Sundays for us left, Rossello. You get sad? Yep. Basketball grinding to a halt. I don't know.

Once the draft is over, man, I'm good for a little while. So, free agency, and then Summer League becomes more about networking than it is the games. But I would tell you not talking hoops for a little bit. Although, I guess I'm not really selling this episode, so maybe I should just stop talking. Well, there's one last stretch that we're going to have here.

The free agent, it's July 1st. It's Friday. But Wednesday is the Kyrie deadline. Thursday is when stuff's going to start trickling out. As we learned the last five, six years, there's always a couple of wink, wink things that happen before July 1st, which Adam Silver has never figured out how to stop. I'm going to go through some free agent questions for you and we could just bat them around. So free agent question number one to me, what happens with Bradley Beal?

Because he's going to opt out, but he's going to opt out because he's going to opt back in and sign this giant contract with Washington. Joe House was on here last week talking about how he thought it was absolutely ludicrous that Bradley Beal would get a super max. And I went through some of his numbers and became increasingly alarmed, especially when you consider the Washington history. We've seen this happen before where the teams, we just look at it and go, well, they got a side of me.

What else are they going to do? And I guess my question is, I do think there's some other things they could do. Bradley Beal is going to be 29 in two days. He's three all-star games in his career. He's made one all-NBA team, third team. Probably peaked two to three years ago. He dropped off a little last year. I don't think he's somebody who's necessarily

going to get better. So to me, he seems like he's moved into this Ray Allen 2007 stage, where maybe not as valuable as the general public would think. All of a sudden, he's getting traded for Jeff Green and Delonte West, basically. And it's like, wow, that's all Ray Allen's worth? It's like, yeah, that's all he's worth because people think he peaked maybe two, three years ago. Ray also had the ankle stuff that he was going through, too. When he got to Boston, he actually was healthier. So I think that worked against him a little bit, too. But keep going.

Fair point. So Beal's been in the league 10 years. And my question is, if you're giving him the super max, where the hell are you going? And the wizards with the contract history they have, which we'll get into, is there any scenario where they go, well, wait a second, why do we have to spend all this money on Bradley Beal? You know, this is really like one of those things where you try to explain it to somebody who doesn't like follow with that closely.

Like this is like a relative deal or something or a buddy. And you're like, no, no, this is kind of what they have to do. And then you think the person who doesn't know anything about it is wrong. And when they might actually be right. Like I remember the Joe Johnson one with Atlanta. I just was like, oh, well, they have to do it. They have to do it. And then I was like, do they though?

And I know that I've conditioned myself to, it's really hard to get players. You have to pay guys more than you want to. You end up, the problem is when you're a team and you're playing like, you're paying your third tier guy the same as a first tier guy. So it's like, well, how are we spending our 40 million a year?

Oh, well, we have a guy that's in the top 10. This guy's not even maybe in the top 20. So I've always liked Beal. He's really talented but i don't i i'm with you a bit on this one being like wait why do we have to do this because he's going to opt out this is what i'd heard for over a year was that he was going to do this get to 250 and then worry about it later because not only is he going to get to 250 million there's no guarantee that right well you're right could say, hey, do we not have to give you every last dollar in this thing?

But I guess the part of it would be, are you just making it worse for your organization knowing now that he has the deal, now he can just do whatever he wants and move on? Because I do think that there's a version of him where maybe he's a little overrated. It's like, well, if we get Bradley Beal in and he's your one, what does that really mean? It hasn't really meant much, has it? Well, you know when he's going to be really overrated is when he has a $250 million contract extension. That will immediately become one of the worst

seven or eight contracts in the league. Again, no shade at Bradley Beal. It's just when you're paying, you know, Jimmy Butler's going to be making that kind of money and he just almost took somebody to the finals. And that's expensive for him. It's expensive for anybody. You don't really have a lot of roster movement possibilities when you're paying somebody

50 million a year. And the thing is, I was looking back at some of the extensions that we decided after the fact were like, wow, that one was bad. And this goes back to the 90s. And it goes back to when Juwan Howard was seven for 105. Gilbert, six for 111, coming off a knee injury. Francis, six for 84 during that stretch when just all those guys, Marbury, Francis, all those dudes were getting at least six. Penny got seven for 87. Allen Houston, six for 100. Brandon Roy, five for 82.

Rashard Lewis, six for 118. Then we move into this decade. It's in that Chandler Parsons. The years are shorter sometimes, but it's like that Chandler Parsons, four for 94. Evan Turner, four for 72. Those kind of things. The Evan Turner one, I remember being like, what? But the two worst ones

from the last few years were Wall and Westbrook. Wall got four for 177. Seemed logical. He had taken them, you know, almost to round three in 2018.

And then Westbrook, nobody batted an eyelash when he got that. I think, I think the hardcore basketball people are like,

oof, that's a lot for somebody who's got a lot of miles on him. But nobody was like, that's ridiculous. I guess my question is, the recurring theme over and over again is, it's fine to pay the money for the awesome guy, the A-lister,

but you start getting in trouble when it's like the all-star, he's like one of the top 25 players, but he's not one of the top 10 or the top 15. That's when these go sideways. This Beal thing fits a lot of the check marks for an extension that somebody will regret two years from now. Now, I don't feel like that's a negative comment, right?

No, I don't think it is. I mean, you know, I'm sure Beal, like I would just like to know, like, what's the evidence that he can, he turns your franchise around? Well, even worse, he puts you in like this, the seventh seed, which is in that no man's land that I don't think anybody wants to be the seventh seed anymore, the eighth seed or the play-in team. But that would be an improvement from improvement from who they've been recently.

The craziest thing, too, about Washington is they will have had, if this Beal thing happens, they will have had attachments to three of the worst contracts in the league all within two years of each other. Well, then you go backwards. There's even more over the last 25 years. Sure. But to have Wall and go, this might be the worst contract in the league. Let's flip it for Westbrook.

But you're right. When Westbrook signed that one, there wasn't a ton of like, what the hell's wrong with you? And when the Chris Paul trade was made, that was when people didn't think Chris Paul

was going to get another extension like he just did this previous offseason. So at times, people thought the Paul deal was going to be worse than the Westbrook deal, even though it was shorter.

But Westbrook, you have Westbrook and, even though it was shorter. But Westbrook, you have Westbrook. And the fact that they were able to turn Westbrook into rotation players and get away from a $47 million bill this year for them. But then it's like, hey, should we just do it again, though? Should we have somebody else be a $50 million bill and have it be five straight years? I would love to know what the level of trust there is, too, with Beal. It's like, hey, did you wait this whole time to get your $250 million if that's what the number comes in at? And then a year from now, you're going to ask out? Because I think a lot of teams would like Beal, but you better have other things in place because by himself, granted, not great teams, they don't do anything. Well, I'm not sure they'll

like him as much as if he's making like $55 million in year four of this deal. Going back to what you said about, basically, do you have to give them the entire 248, whatever it is? I think it's 248 is the exact number. Who are they bidding against? We know the teams that have cap space. The Pistons, they're going to have money to pay somebody. So are the Spurs. It looks like Orlando will. OKC has the money. They're not going to use it. And then after that, nobody would have the money to compete with them anyway.

Even if somebody tries to offload contracts, you just saw how hard that was with the Knicks. Like they couldn't even get rid of Fournier's deal in the three days leading up to the draft.

They offered it back to the Celtics just to take it in the exception. The Celtics were like, no thanks. So I just don't know who they're bidding against other than the threat. They were like, well, then I'll leave. I'll just go to the Pistons. I just don't think he would do that. He's going to go sideways to another team. So they either have to get that at a lower number or they have to explore some sign andade stuff.

And the irony is there's probably better sign-and-trade deals for them than just keeping Beal, right? Like, look at Atlanta. Atlanta is dying to make a three-for-one. They want nothing more than make a three-for-one. If Washington could get Collins and Bogdanovich and Okongwu for Beal and pay Collins and Bogdanovich and a Kongu for Beal and pay Collins and Bogdanovich, I don't know, 36, 37 million a year combined over paying Beal 50 and you get a Kongu, that makes more sense

to me than just paying Beal. What do you think of that? The concept of a three for one for him. Now we could do some Memphis trades too, same kind of thing. I don't know if Memphis would be as excited to pay him. Atlanta seems a little more desperate to me, but should they be thinking that way with three for ones? I think we've always been talking about this. And McDonavich too is also sneaky older than you think. He's 30. Yeah. Like whenever you're older than Beal. Yeah. Whenever you're like looking at McDonavich stuff, you'd be like, oh wait, that's right. He's older. I like a Kong. That kind of feels like a lot for Atlanta.anta um and it would be weird because then i wonder like would people start going like oh my god beal and trey young like look out east and then would you be a month

in be like hey they're 500 like yeah can they play can they play together yeah i can i mean i think i could see that more so because like when it's new do you remember who was it the celtics yeah the celtics added what kyrie and gordon hayward in the same offseason yeah or was it horford at the horford year before but then like that was kyrie and hayward it lasted seven minutes kyrie and hayward and then it was pretty clearly like the best offseason anybody had had and And then at the very end, the Thunder grabbed Mello to add him to Paul George and then it was like Presti won the offseason.

You're like, wait, because Mello, who they ended up not even really being able to use. So the point would be that if Beal and Trey were to end up on the same team, I could just see the TV shows going like new favorites in the East. He'd be like, based on what? Like newness,

a new transaction. So I would, I would love to know just what the level of trust is there on Beal for like, do you want to be here? If, when we give you this and, and you might be right, like maybe it's better for them to be proactive and saying, actually,

we don't want you around for $248 million. When you're going to ask for a trade in a year because we're not good, which we won't be if we give you this contract. It's like the chicken-egg thing. Yeah, and then it gets better with this. What would you do? I would trade him. I would honestly take Collins

and Bogdanovich and some picks, and I'd be good. I'd be good with that trade. I actually like Collins. I think Collins has become underrated. And I think Beal has become a little overrated for, I think, what people think he is. Or at least the casual fans. I would think that.

What about, what if they went to Orlando and said, just give us Suggs, we'll give you Beal. That's it. That's the whole trade. You can avoid Beal, give him a new thing. We'll take Sucks. Deal. One for one. I know that sounds crazy, but there's no evidence that Beal actually makes you that much better. Do we agree on that? And then if you're Orlando, you're like, we just got the number one pick in here. We're building with this idea of who we could be in a couple years, the financial decisions that we have to make.

And if we grab Beal, that means we probably... It greatly impacts who one of the guys you're going to pay later on. Yeah. Because one thing I was thinking with... One recourse I was thinking with the Wizards with Beal, if they just traded him for somebody like a Suggs and just had a bunch of cap space, they could actually get in on the Kyrie sweepstakes.

They could offer Kyrie two years for the max. And Kyrie's a better player than Beal. He's way less reliable. You think? Yeah, that's my take. Here's what I would have. But they get creative with shit like that. If I were running a front office this summer,

the rule would be as soon as any- Don't bring up Kyrie. Yeah. If any of you come to work on a Tuesday with a plan for Kyrie, just leave. Get out of the room. Well, the only reason I brought that up was maybe Kyrie for the Wizards is KD bait.

Because we have your guy. You're from here. It's a two-part move. As crazy like a two, it's a two part move. As crazy as that sounds, it makes more sense to me if I'm trying to win a title than it does to give Bradley Beal $50 million. And again, he's a fine player. I would say he's one of the best 35, 40 players

in the league, probably. Probably the best, one of the best 40. Would be my guess, but he will not be, he would be one of the 10 worst assets at that contract. Clay Thompson, who we love is going to make 40 and 43 the next two years. It's too expensive. He's not a good asset. Like that would be really hard for them to trade him to another team. They wouldn't because they love him. But sometimes these cap figures, and especially with the super max, it's really going to get scary the next

couple of years with a couple of these contracts, I think. Yeah. I'm not ready to kind of write off Clay. I kind of really look forward to seeing what he looks like with a normal off season and coming back. $40 million, Clay? $44 million? The way you're describing Clay, I feel like you're kind of, you're resigned to the idea that this is who he's going to look like for the rest of his career and I'm not ready for that. It's a lot of money. Yeah, but it's a lot.

It's not a lot if he looks like Clay again. The salary cap's 122. No, I'm aware. I get it. But I think that you're, I think Clay looks so up and down throughout the playoffs that you think this might be

who he's going to be for the rest of his career. I'm just not there yet. It doesn't matter because they're paying him regardless. And that team is going to have a $400 million payroll this year. And it's going to be awesome. I like their attitude about it. They're like, hey, we're trying to win titles. We don't care what it costs. It feels a little bit like the baseball position guy contract. Every single one of those sucks. It crazy like you go oh hey we paid this guy you know 11 years 210 million they're like terrible idea like oh we paid this

guy and you just go through it judge is gonna go 400 million bucks it's gonna be a bad contract yeah by the way i swear to god nobody understands arbitration how do we get to a place where in social media with sports people that nobody understands how baseball arbitration works like we used to know about this when we were kids and it's like oh he's worth even more than that you're like yeah this is the way this system is set up it's the way it's set up and this is the way it happens and he can go and argue for a number and that's what happens like it's this is this isn't new it's kind of like when the third or fourth round quarterback throws a touchdown everybody's like god he only makes 400 grand

what do you want to start doing giving guys in the fourth round 10 million? Right. You know what I mean? So this is what it is. But whenever I look at the baseball position guys, because the pitchers, I think you can make an argument that it makes sense. But when you look at the position guys,

you're like, why would you want to keep doing this? But that's kind of the point is that sometimes you just have to. I think there are basketball teams that have to. I don't know the way to fix it. Maybe it is just a simple sign of trade like you're talking about. But I think there's a lot of GMs that would go, yeah, I hated doing that deal, but I kind of had to because I can't replace the asset. Yeah. Baseball,

you almost want the guy in his 20s and not his 30s is the way the whole sport is set up. That's what they've done, basically. Yeah. You don't want like the Red Sox are in this situation with Bogarts right now who I really like watching he's been an awesome Red Sox I love him but he's gonna want

like 150 million bucks and he's gonna head into his 30s and everything about that in baseball is just flashing stop sign like

do not do this guys entering his 30s do not pay this person a lot of money. Over and over again, we've seen it. Like it's gotta be like 75, 80% of the time. So the Red Sox are in a conundrum with it because it's like, I really like Bogarts and he's been a great guy, you know, in the clubhouse, on the field. He's reliable. He's consistent, but they're probably going to let him go because of that flashing stop sign. The Beal thing, I was trying to figure out if there was a Lakers possibility with him.

And I just don't, sadly, the Lakers are like one trade asset short. But like if the Wizards just took the Westbrook deal for a year, but then got a bunch of picks and pick swaps and gave them Beal, the problem is the Lakers have already given away all that stuff. So they don't really have a lot of options with this. There's the Boston option, but I think everyone in Boston would lose their minds if it was Jalen Brown and Tice for a Beal sign and trade. Celtics almost won the title. They're not doing that. So I don't really know what Washington's options are, which leads me to the original topic. I think they'll just end up giving him probably like 220. They'll be like, hey, we saved 20. 227.

The report said 248 today. It's jarring. It's just, I feel bad for the Washington fans. I was trying, I actually have a theory about stereotypical NBA franchises, but I'm going to, we're going to take a break. I'm going to throw it at you. This episode is brought to you by Movember.

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Really? Really, really. This message is brought to you by Metrolinks. So stereotypical NBA franchises. I was thinking about how certain franchises are just on brand, right? Like, OKC loves these limitless... Charks and Kyle Mayweather were talking about this on Friday on Upside High. They love these kind of limitless ceiling guys, you know, that, Oh, this guy might be this that's, that's

kind of where they've gravitated to the last couple of years, right? Just all ceiling guys. No, like just, Hey, let's take the, let's take like, instead of taking dang at 11, just let's take Mark Williams, this guy, he's just, he put his hands up. He's, he could be a 15 and 10 guy. That's who he is. Okay.. OKC isn't interested in that. They love the high ceiling guys, right? Washington, over and over again in the last 25 years, just gets into this rut with these big contracts to these guys that aren't truly special, but they're really good players.

And that's how they are. Sacramento manages to constantly be in this conundrum of, oh shit, our picks up and the best guy on the board doesn't fit what we have. What do we do? It's just over and over again. They've been 15, 20 years. Do you believe that some franchises,

it just becomes Groundhog Day with how they handle this stuff? Or am I overthinking this? No, look, you're right on about Sacramento. I can't believe this is what happened. But at the same time, it's the most Sacramento thing ever. But you can believe it. Yeah, right.

As we saw the pick come down, we were doing the lottery show. We all started laughing then because you're supposed to take Ivy there. And you already knew from a basketball standpoint, there was probably an argument to be made against it. Washington, who's the best player they've had is it Gilbert Arenas 15 years ago it's Gilbert in the mid 2000s it's probably John Wall 2018 and C-Web

maybe 1997 I would say that was probably the top three and then you could argue Bradley Beal two years ago I mean he was like 31 and a half a game he was like ripping off 30-35 point games night after night after night so at least you know he's in the discussion I think 31 and a half a game. He's ripping off 30, 35-point games night after night after night. So at least he's in the discussion, I think.

All right, so if I'd ask you this, do you think it's something Washington does that leads to this, or do you think it's just what I would probably argue is that some teams just get stuck with the non-max stars, right? Or I should say the max non-stars is the way I should phrase it.

But do they get stuck with the non-max stars because they keep overpaying the non-max stars? I should say non-star max player because they're all getting the max and they don't feel like... Right, they're market max. They're not true max guys. They're just the market said that they should get a max.

But that's the way it's always been, though. I mean, that goes back to when, before I was even in the business with it. It'd be like, oh, you're the best player, so here's your seven-year max. You just kind of got it. Yeah. House has been rooting for this team his whole life, and they have not really been that good for 40 years. And he's just like, it's preordained. We're going to give Bradley Beal too much money in a year from now. He's going to ask for a trade. But the people running Washington are different than the last people that ran Washington, the people that ran Washington before. So it's like a different front office, basically in the same situations, which is just

bizarre. Whereas you have like Detroit, a team that has been, To me, they don't have a stereotype. They've been all over the map and then they stumble into this amazing fortuitous 2022 draft where Ivy falls to them at five. They're able to pull off Durin. Now they don't have to sign Aiton, it looks like. Now maybe they could throw that money at Miles Bridges or even somebody like Bradley Beal.

But Detroit's been way more of a chameleon. They've had a lot of looks, right? They had the Stan Van Gundy era where they're just overpaying people. They had that last Joe Dumars run where he's like overpaying Josh Smith. And then before that, the Ben Gordon run. And Villanueva.

But then they had the 03 run where all of a sudden they were putting together really smart and like smart Chauncey Billups signing and then a really smart Prince draft pick. And then they steal Rasheed Wallace. So they've been all over the map. Washington has kind of just been on the hamster wheel. It's pretty weird. Yeah. Dumars went from one of my favorite GMs to what the hell are you doing in a very short amount of time? It was weird. Joe had an unbelievable run and you're like, is this one of the five best GMs? I thought it was a pretty reasonable thing to say. And then

as it just kept falling apart, I was like, what's going on? But they had the cap space. A couple bad summers. Yeah, we got to use this on somebody. And that's what ended up happening. I don't know if the Washington thing is specific other than, you know, some teams just aren't going to get the better players. And then they're going to get somebody just good enough that they have to pay.

And that's like in a weird way. I remember talking with another team about it. I was like, is it more alarming that Beal didn't want out before and only wanted this max and was like worried about it later? Like he was okay? Because every, you know, how long has this been? Two years people talking about him potentially getting traded? And then I remember being told he didn't want to move.

He didn't physically want to move. He was just happy being in the same city, figured out later, get to that 2022, which is exactly how it's gone. Well, it seems like Dame doesn't want to get traded anymore. But yet, the Shaden Sharp pick makes no sense if they're trying to contend right away, unless they think it's an asset that can be put in a trade, right?

Yeah, I think might have just said, hey, we don't like any of the trades. Like every single year, man, it's an asset that can be put in a trade right yeah i mean they might have just said hey we don't like any of the trades like every single year man it's like oh man look at all these trades that are going to happen all these trades are going to happen and then it just it's just hard to pull them off because everybody likes their guys and they think everybody's low-balling like that ended up being like that was the jeremy grant trade a 2025 first when this guy was supposed to- That got flipped for Jalen Dern. Right, right. So again, if you really like Jalen Dern and it fell that way, then I'm sure Detroit's

thrilled about it. But when you see what Grant was ultimately traded for with a year left, so I guess you could argue, well, I got to pay him in a year or whatever. Okay, well, fine. You got him for this year. It's not a terrible number. I thought he was a better player offensively with Detroit, although he's not the kind of guy you want taking 19 shots a game for you

if you have any plans of winning games. But the Portland part of it with Dame, what I'd always been told about that was that he was somebody who liked it being like his name on the marquee. Not in reality, but just the concept of, hey, this is my team. I run the show. I call the shots.

His family's close by. And that he would not be in a hurry to kind of be in somebody else's shadow. Now, however, I thought when Haynes, we talked about that, what, it was a year ago where Lillard, in his quote to Chris Haynes, was basically saying, like, you know, the fans have been nothing. But I was like, uh-oh, we're complimenting the fans. So is this like a, is he throwing a little warning shot out there about what he might do?

But, um, I, I think Dame is going to hang out for a year and then revisit it. And then if they have new ownership, then he'll have a better excuse if he doesn't want to worry about alienating a fan base. The more I read and listened and studied the draft and the more I thought about it after we did our massive four-parter, I kind of wish they had taken the guy New Orleans took. Dyson? Yeah, I think he would have been a better fit for them. I understand

the home run pick was sharp and clearly Schmitz had the most info of anybody and I get it. They thought that was a real true ceiling pick. But I think it would have been fun to see him on that team. I think stuff could have run through him. He could have played with Dame.

I just think, because they have Grant, it seems like Nurkic is coming back. They'll probably spend the $10.4 million mid-level on somebody. And all of a sudden, that could have been a pretty fun team. And I think he could have played right away.

I think Sharp seems like, you know, he'll be G League at least for a year, would be my guess. Yeah. And you still got Simons, don't forget, too. And because you have Simons, it might have made more sense to take Daniels. Because Daniels

is huge, man. He's enormous. I like that you like him so much. And all of our guys really liked him. Yeah. Just that it's like a unique, the fact that he gets rid of the ball fast, like Lonzo style, where it just, he's not a ball stopper at all.

It's the opposite. He's just kind of additive. Yeah, I wish you could shoot. I have a feeling I'm going to like him. Yeah, his shot, you're not going to like his shot, but I don't know how he'll break down the mechanics of that because it takes forever to get out. But here it is.

It's a shot that looks as bad as it looks, and we all still love him. Because every time I'd watch that G League team play, you start with Hardy because he was kind of the highest profile guy going in. And you're like, oh, man, this is kind of tough to watch here. And then you're going, wait, who's this other guy? And Marshawn was also kind of fun to watch here. And then you're going, wait, who's this other guy? And it always and Marchand was also kind of fun to watch. And then Scoot Henderson, who's number two in the mocks for

2023 behind Wim Benyama, who's really good. Scoot's really good. So that team had a lot, but you kept I would watch for other guys and I kept kind of default going back to Dyson a lot because I just loved how smart he was. Charlotte, speaking of Duren,

I think they're another free agency question for me. I don't really understand what they're doing. To me, it would have made sense to just take Duren and Mark Williams. It's like how I've said before how I want an NFL team to just take two

rookie quarterbacks in the same draft like fuck it it's a 50% chance anyway just take two one of them would be good in this case like I do think

those guys bring different skill sets it's a team that needed bigs anyway they never have bigs they could add two just re-sign Bridges take those two picks

instead they kind of flip the pick for future asset which I don't get and then I don't know is Bridges, take those two picks. Instead, they kind of flip the pick for future asset, which I don't get. And then, I don't know, is Bridges staying? And what's he worth? That's another one. I really like Bridges, but I don't know if I'd like him at $32 million a year. So is this going to be another thing where they go backwards? They had the big spending spree with that Hayward year. I was like, well, my God, look at Charlotte spending money. Look at these guys. Now it feels like they're regressing and going the other way. I can't figure out

why they traded that pick. That pick had way more value than a future protected Portland pick. I didn't get it. Well, I don't think they would have wanted to take Dern and Mark Williams together. I don't. And I know you've been on the rookie QB

thing and you might be right, by the way, right? We've been over it a million times. Might be right. I think it's a little bit more than just the math. Okay. Because whenever I've talked to anybody about the NFL part of this, it's like, Hey, what you do is you just keep taking them. You just keep drafting them until you get one. T-shirt cannon. And I'm like, okay. So so i've been but i do think that we are ignoring the human element of how challenging that would be for like a guy who went fourth and a guy who went 24th and to both be rookie first rounders because you had a second

first rounder be like all right you guys fight it out yeah i think i just think that's a weird dynamic and you know depend on the personality as much as the talent and all that kind of stuff so out. I just think it's a weird dynamic. Depend on the personality as much as the talent and all that kind of stuff. It feels like Oklahoma City might be doing some of that stuff with the high upside guys where it's like, we have all these picks. It doesn't really make a ton of sense for us to take all of these

picks and go throw them at somebody who's mad, who's never going to want to resign here in the first place. If we have pick four and six, that really doesn't move you up to number one. So I'd heard a similar theory in that it would be a little bit like your NFL theory, your quarterback thing where it's like Oklahoma city's just, well,

let's just keep taking guys. We'll just keep taking the high ceiling guys. Dang. And Jalen Williams. Yeah. Just hope one of them becomes freaky. Yeah. Kinda.

Poku. Although Jalen Poku definitely fits the bill there I don't know if Jalen Williams this the the non

Arkansas Jalen Williams Santa Cruz he's been around for a little bit so well I don't know I have Bridges I mean he's one of the seven best free agents

right do you have it yeah I have Beal, Harden, Kyrie Aitonon, Levine, Bridges, and Brunson. And then it drops off. Do you have Harden as a better free agent than Aiton? I'm just saying like name. No, I'm not ranking those.

And then I'm not putting Simons in there because it seems like he's going back to Portland. But it drops off from that level. All of a sudden, we're in the Colin Sexton, Nurkic, Mitchell Robertson, Portis level. And then it drops off again to that Oladipo, Tyus Jones, Monk, Slow Mo, DiVincenzo, Bruce Brown. Then it drops again to the Bruce Brown, Boucher, Looney, Payton, Gary Harris, Batum, role player level.

But the thing is, I do like the free agents in this. I think there's a lot of guys. Like I think about the Celtics. There's 12 guys. Who do you want? Who do you want the most for the Celtics? Give me three or top three. Dream?

Well, so they could go. That are realistic. So it looks like 6.39 mid-level tax for them. They could do 10.35. They'd be hard capped. They'd do that bigger one or use their actual trade exception, do some sort of sign-in trade if they want. So they can get creative in a bunch of ways. My dream scenario for them, you're going to laugh.

TJ Warren. I have no idea if he's healthy, but the more I think about the last two rounds, they need another wing who can score, who can create a shot, where the bench just isn't going to die for five minutes and who will prevent a situation where you have five points in the deciding game of your season

from your bench. Or in the game before the deciding game of your season, game five in Golden State, you have to play Jalen and Jason the entire second half because you literally do not have a wing you can bring in for them. That's what they have to fix.

People are like, the Celtic fans are like, oh, need a playmaker, just smart push. Should we trade smart? It's like, it's not about the point guards. They were a wing short. That's why they lost the finals and the Warriors were great. That was the other reason.

But they did not have a wing. They weren't able to play Neesmith. They didn't have any sort of free agent, whatever, midseason pickup, you name it. They didn't have that guy to come in and play 20 minutes and hit some threes and like, oh my God, he had 16 points in 12

minutes. They didn't have that guy. And I think it could be TJ Warren if he's healthy. I'm not laughing at that. Because the only reason you're going to get him is because they don't know what they have anymore with him, right? He hasn't been healthy since the bubble. Dude, this guy hasn't played in forever. Yeah, he hasn't played since the bubble.

And that's why it's like, could you get him for, you know, like one of those Patty Mills, like $ million for one year player option for the second prove it contract. I think he would really help them if he's healthy. Um, I mean, ironically, Peyton would be amazing for them. Um, because that's somebody who could play 20,

25 minutes, but I don't see any chance of, uh, of the Warriors letting them go. Then two more. I think slow-mo who I think they've liked for two more. I think Slo Mo, who I think they've liked for a while. I think Slo Mo would be,

he brings ball movement and he's just been in big games and you could have thrown him into that game five in Golden State and he could have played 20 minutes. And then last but not least, my guy Monk. My guy Monk's out there.

You can't quit him. Can he come off the bench and just get hot for seven minutes? They didn't have that last year. Once teams figured out Grant, once Pritchard's shot went sideways, and once White got there in the headlights, where were they going?

Yeah, I still like the White trade. I do. I do too. He just got spooked for whatever reason as that series went along. Lost confidence. You sent a text to us that needs more needs to get more credit because it's really funny. I laughed your approach to the Jalen Brunson sweepstakes and then asking, is this the worst sweepstakes we've ever had? That was my next question for you. That needs to be recognized and you need to get more credit for that because it's it's true again it's nothing against him but if i have to read another

fucking article on his relationship with the coaching staff and he used to work out in high school near the area and then all this stuff you're like dude it's still like he's a nice player it's still jalen brunson people talking about this like it's clearing cap space for lebron in 2010 it's pretty rough i to me it's like it's like our dynasty discussion a week ago i just like to be careful when i use words like dynasty and sweepstakes and goat i i'm not a guy who just throws those around. Goat's been, it's been knocked down. All of our analysts that cover goat were like, yeah, it's just, it's value's not what it was. So whenever anybody says goat now, if somebody says like, oh man, it's a goat, I'm like, whatever.

Well, it's like top five guys, another one, top five guy, top 10 guy. Yeah, we do that all the time. But no, sweepstakes, you need, itstakes you need it's a really it's a really good question because is this the lowest level of player again nothing against jalen brunson the lowest level of we like them that people have been like waiting on like man we did it we did it got him i just think that this has alarming. I have a bunch of Nick fans in my life and we talked about this on Thursday that are just like, what the fuck is going on? What is going on? Basically, we're moving heaven and earth to get Jalen Brunson. Where are we going? What's going to happen? This is year three? The results could be Jalen Brunson? This is where we are?

I don't know. I think you could get so much more creative. Like, for instance, if John Wall's going to get bought out, you get John Wall for like, I don't know, seven million? That's a way more... I think they're probably scarred from the Kemba thing last year.

But all you have to do is ask anybody who watched the Celt the game like don't do that they didn't um but then i saw kemba kemba on like a lakers watch list because he's catching shoot threes he was still at 40 last year that's the sneaky weird thing about the kemba part of it is you would look at some of wherever kemba ends up somebody's going to argue some of the more traditional numbers and be like you know for a guy who everybody dumped on last year, he's pretty good. And you're like, yeah, he was actually sort of unplayable too, in a weird way.

He was hunted. Yeah. Right. Right. I think he was the most hunted. I would give wall a shot at 7 million. Me too. I was thinking about him for the Celtics.

Like, could he be an interesting Celtic mid-level guy? Cause that's what it feels like, what the number would be. Hey, take 40 on the 47 and then you'll go make it up somewhere else. So it saves us a little bit would be. Hey, take 40 on the 47 and then you'll go make it up somewhere else. So it saves us a little bit of money. I don't know if Houston's

motivated to try to get that done. They haven't been super motivated to want the guy around. But I would if I didn't have much else going on, I'd kick the tires on that for one year with John Wall. I have an even crazier John Wall idea. Why don't they just

bring him back and play him? They're going to have Jalen Green and Jabari and our guy Shangoon. I don't know. They're going to have a lot of shooters. They're going to be fun. They're going to be playing loose and running. Who's their point guard?

Why not? They're going to play Ty Ty Washington? I would at least want to see what John Wall looked like in training camp before I bought him out. I know they just told him to go away for a year, but let's take a look at it. If we're going to buy him out for 40, maybe he's worth it just to see what we have.

Maybe worst case scenario, he plays well for two months and you might be able to trade him as an expiring, you know, maybe you could build up his trade value. I don't know. I like the pieces. Would you do the Westbrook deal for him? That him that I think LeBron wanted to do last year before

the deadline? Yeah, but I wouldn't if I was the Rockets unless I was getting one of those picks. That's the thing. If you're the Lakers, you can't trade those picks so you can go from being an eight seed to a seven seed. You know, I want to talk about them in a second. Let's take a break. I have more free agency questions for you,

but I just had to redo these odds on Fandle. These are the NBA title odds. Stop me if you're surprised by any of these numbers. Golden State's plus 550. They're the favorite. Milwaukee and Boston, six to1. Clippers plus 650. Nets, 9-1. Phoenix, 10-1.

Philly, 16-1. Miami, 17-1. Dallas, 21-1. Denver and Memphis, 22-1. Any of those jump out to you as like that was either too low or too high? The Brooklyn one's pretty forgiving as of right now. That's how I felt. Yeah, like you guys are still putting a decent number on this.

Why isn't that like 25-1? Because they just are afraid of getting action on it and then it's all being resolved and everybody comes back in 48 hours you know what i mean because there's still a chance that there's still a chance durant and kairi are playing basketball for this team next year maybe it actually looks like a basketball team on top of everything else um everybody's off of phoenix now which is kind of funny i don't know why a little too far a little too far off don't you think yep clippers that seem fair to you? I think it seems hopeful.

Well, the reason I brought up the odds was the Lakers. Let me just make sure I have this exactly. I was surprised by the Lakers. They were... 22 to 1. The same odds as Memphis. Now, the Lakers are a public team. I get it. But I just don't see any scenario

where they win the title next year. To me, that seems like a terrible bet. Like Toronto's 48 to one. The Bulls are 48 to one. New Orleans is 60 to one. I'd rather bet on New Orleans at 60 to one. It's 48-1. The Bulls are 48-1. New Orleans is 60-1. I'd rather bet on New Orleans at 60-1. It's more conceivable. There are more conceivable paths to be for them than

there would be for the Lakers. But I get it. The Lakers are a public team. They want to jack the odds and get action. But man, I mean, two players. No. I mean, it's ridiculous that they would have better odds than Memphis yeah but we already answered it so I don't need to add more to it would you do would you do the Kyrie Anthony Davis stuff so what is that exactly

that's Kyrie NKD for Davis and Westbrook? I don't think the Nets would do that. So what's the trade then? Well, it would be any one of the ridiculous ones that I've read that I don't think are going to happen is my point. You know what I mean? Have you seen basically anything that you would want to point out and be like, hey, would you do Anthony Davis or Kyrie Irving? So I go on with Cal Hurd.

He hates Anthony Davis. His position is strong right now. It's very anti-Anthony Davis for years. And he's like, you wouldn't do Anthony Davis or Kyrie? And I was like, no, I wouldn't do that. I was like, at least Anthony Davis still wants to play. He just is hurt. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with the Kyrie thing.

I've never seen somebody more overvalued for what has actually happened the last five years. Go watch the playoff series against Boston, which just happened two months ago. He just kind of, as that series went along, became less and less and less impactful.

I thought a liability on defense. I'm just taking Davis every time. Davis only been in the league 10 years and clearly put on too much weight next year. I still feel like there's a world where he can come back and be a 25 and 12 guy again.

I wouldn't put those, to me it would be AD and KD would at least to me be a conversation on both ends. You're not worried about like Katie's money. I mean, you can just say, Hey,

what about his health? Because I'd say he's had more blips than, you know, certainly some of the other guys, but it does seem to come back and figure it out. And look, that Nets team had a great record when he went down and he was in the MVP conversation.

Granted, I felt like there's about seven people in the MVP conversation for this year, but I would not be doing anything that would, that would lead to be trading Kevin Durant at this point. I just, I wouldn't. So.

Miami. If it was, we didn't talk about them when we did our trades the other day, I forgot to bring them up or maybe we did. And we just like how funny it would be if, if it was Butler and hero for Durant, if they actually traded Butler, uh, how cutthroat that would be.

But who's more cutthroat than Pat Riley. Pat Riley took Stan Van Gundy's job before the title season. It's like, I'll, I'll take it from here, Stan. I don't know. It's an interesting basketball trade, but to reunite Butler and Ben Simmons, I think

would be the funniest part of that. Yeah, that's the other thing I constantly keep having to remind myself, that Ben Simmons is on the Nets. I think KD's reminding himself of that, too. I'll be like, oh, that's right. He's still on the Nets. Go ahead. Did we talk about Zion straight up for KD

the last time? I can't remember on Thursday. Not with me. KD has more trade value than Zion. Yeah. Right? So it'd have to be Zion and picks.

And you'd have to assume that KD would be excited to move to fucking New Orleans. But that's the best basketball situation of all these basketball situations. That's the one team that made the first round of the playoffs and almost advanced that showed

real promise and could trade somebody and not lose any of the pieces that showed real promise. And just had the eighth pick in the draft and has a bunch more first round picks. And then if you're Brooklyn, that's a pretty good reset. Because I was thinking Brandon Ingram

initially. And then I was like, if you're going to do that, why wouldn't it just be Zion? But I thought that was... That's a fun idea. That's not my idea, by the way, that's been out there. Yeah.

But you know, what's funny about that one is the perception of whose trade value is more. It should probably be Ingram was Zion's injury history, but Zion probably gets you any player right now. Cause you're still hopeful that, you know, okay, he'll figure it out.

And by the way, we got Zion posting more, more photos than a, a college girl in Tulum right now. I mean, we have all the different angles of Zion. I don't know what the hell this guy does. 360? No, I just don't know what he...

It's unbelievable, depending on the angle and lighting, who this guy can look like. And then the times you're like, oh my God, what's wrong with him? And then the next day, it's crazy. I'm sorry. I'm going to hold off on the joke. Nah, I'm not doing it. Ten years ago, I'm all over the joke I was going to make.

I think I had one brewing. I'm going to give you eight players who would not be trade-up for Kevin Durant. In no particular order. Giannis, Luka, Jokic, Curry, Morant, Embiid, Tatum, and Evan Mobley. You don't think Cleveland would trade Evan Mobley? For Kevin Durant, no. You think that's it?

It's the only eight. Well, I'm going to give you a couple more. Straight up, nothing else in the trade. Devin Booker. You wouldn't do it or you don't think Phoenix would do it? I don't think the Nets would do it it I don't think the Nets would do it you don't think the Nets would do it

nope I think the Nets would have done any of the previous eight guys I mentioned I'll read those eight guys again Giannis, Luka, Jokic, Curry

Morant, Embiid, Tatum and Mobley I think the Nets are in on all of those this is a fancy way of me saying that I have Durant 9 are in on all of this. It's a fancy way of me saying that I have Durant 9th in my trade value. No, I get it. I like this, though. You don't think Giannis No-Brainer, Luka No-Brainer, Steph,

because you've got to think of what these people mean to the franchise. Steph's never getting traded. It'll never happen ever at any point, ever. What about Ja? No way. Because of what he means to the city? No way. By the way, he is the most popular player in the league under 25.

Like on social, he was the most popular player the league had. Like on social and other platforms and the way they measure that. Ja was like number one. He's untradeable. So if you're running the Grizzlies and the Nets call up and say platforms and the way they measure that. Jav was number one. He's untradeable in my opinion. So if you're running the Grizzlies and the Nets call up and say, hey, we'll do this, you say no. You think they'd say no?

Would you say no? I think the Grizzlies would say no. And I think the Nets would say yes. For the listeners his eyes are going in that direction we're talking about Kevin Durant here year 16 next year I know

Jha's like 22 who's better next year the Grizzlies with Jha or Kevin Durant oh that's a great question well who's playing point guard they're going to lose Tyus Jones they're gonna lose

who's the other point guard who used to play for them well Melton would bring it up sometimes too they lost Slo Mo they're gonna have a bunch of young guys Bane could probably just play it I think they're better with Jha I love KD

I just think Jha's like the engine of that team they're better with Jha. I love KD. I just think Jha's like the engine of that team. They're never not trading him. Tatum for KD, Tatum just beat him in a series, so we can't have that conversation. I just think Mobley's upside. That would be the dumbest trade of all time if you're Cleveland. But you think Cleveland would say no to Mobley,

but you think Detroit would say yes for Cade? Well, that was what I was going to ask because my next three were, in whatever order you have it, Booker and Edwards and Cade. And I don't think Minnesota would, I don't think either team would do it. I don't think Brooklyn would trade KD for Anthony Edwards

and I don't think Minnesota would do it either. We're starting to get to some names here where even as much as we love Anthony Edwards or what Cade is, you'd be like, wait, I get to rant for a couple more years here? But you have to factor in, you're not just getting the player

in a simulation game. You're getting a guy who just created his own life in New York and now he has to move his ass to Minnesota and live in Minnesota and play for this team that's number one.

And that's the part when these fake trades happen. You have to factor in if it's the undesirable team, the guy going to that team, the way this league works where guys are unhappy all the time anyway.

Like he's not going to be happy in Minnesota. Superior Minnesota, you're like, we have this young guy at a rookie deal who likes playing here, who's super happy, who's not going to be happy in Minnesota. Superior, Minnesota, you're like, we have this young guy at a rookie deal who likes playing here, who's super happy,

who's only going to get better, or we could trade for this other guy who's going to be unhappy the moment he shows up. So that's why it's an argument. The Booker one is fascinating because KD's just a better player

than Devin Booker, but Booker's way younger. He likes being there. I think that would be a tough one. And then if you're the Nets, like, I don't know if that's enough for Kevin Durant

unless there's other stuff thrown in. This is fun though. It's a fun game. It is, because it does bring us back to the Phoenix part. We haven't really even talked

about Aiton. That was next to my list. You want to do that now? Yeah. Well, he's, it seems like the Pistons are probably out

and that they're going to go with a wing in some way over like spending a center. So his, his options all of a sudden are Spurs

and Orlando and OKC. OKC, you know, they just took Chet. They don't need him. I don't see them signing Aiton

and putting him with Chet. So now't need him. I don't see them signing Aiton and putting him with Chet. So now we're basically down to Orlando, who has Wendell Carter, and then the Spurs, who are in these Jajante Murray trade rumors for reasons I still don't understand. I don't understand those either. And I really didn't understand the Atlanta one, because it doesn't seem to make a ton of sense that you would play him with Trey unless you felt like having another on-ball creator who's really good would lessen the burden for Trey instead of just, hey, these late playoff games where you do the same play every time. And if that's, you know, they feel like they're a really predictable basketball team because he's going to have the ball in his hands so much. I thought Atlanta was potentially in on some stuff with him, but I feel like Atlanta's been connected to every possible

rumor going. And they're leaking it to everybody. If I was another team and I was talking Atlanta, I would just call. After I hung up, I would just call Woj and Chris Haynes and Shams and everybody else. It was like, hey, I just talked to Atlanta. Here's what we talked about.

They're like, hold on. I'm on the phone with Atlanta. I'll call you back. No, okay. But just because something doesn't fit basketball-wise, don't dismiss another team being like, hey, we have this cap space. The cap space is going away.

So, you know, let's just go grab an asset, like an eight. Maybe he's not perfect for our timeline. Maybe he's not perfect because of some roster. Maybe he does get in the way of some of these other guys. But if we have this asset, that means that we at least have another piece to play with here. And now our talent level was here and we've raised it. When I talked to Weltman from Orlando on Friday after the draft, the sense I got from them with their cap space is he reminded me like twice in that same answer that they would, if they kind of held serve here, would have as much cap space as anyone next summer.

Yeah. So I really, I felt like he was doing me a real solid there of kind of hinting at, I think we'd like to see how this year goes. Now, maybe some opportunity presents itself and it changes the plan, but it felt like he was leaning towards, we really want to try to preserve where we'd be at in 20 and 23 and see where we're at. Well, one of the teams that could have cap space is the Wizards if they let Bradley Beal go.

But it seems like a more likely scenario to me now that it's a sign-and-trade for somebody else's expensive guy if Phoenix was going to do something like that. And for Aiton, maybe that's his path out unless he just re-signs with Phoenix, which I guess we can't rule out. You know, I think, and I'm guilty of this too. I just felt like Aiton was on his way out.

But if he doesn't have the right team, I think it should be the Spurs. I think that makes so much sense. I would like that team. I mean, our guy Sohan's there. I like Murray. They have a bunch of like interesting shooter swing man people. And then just to throw Aiton in the mix, you got to spend your money on somebody. And if it's what, 32, 33 million, somebody's got to do, it makes me so

mad when people don't do the RFA offers and put these teams on a stranglehold to decide what to do, right? On July 1st, somebody should give that dude an offer for 120 and put Phoenix on the clock to decide what to do with it. But you always see that it's like very gentlemanly in the NBA with that stuff. That it's not nearly as cutthroat as I wish it was. Not always though. Cause I mean, sometimes they would poison pill them. We were talking about that stuff with Daryl the other day.

Yeah, it was nine years ago though. Yeah, I know. It was a long time ago. Um, cause he had the contracts are so backloaded. Those are the different poison pill ones as opposed to the rookie uh extension thing but um you know it used to be way worse remember if you put in a restricted offer your cap space was tied up to that offer for like right two weeks or some absurd prohibitive yeah so it was kind of being like you can you can make

an offer and they've since changed that where it's you know it's only a matter of days now i believe but i i think if you're a team like san antonio and i mean okay murray's nice i like their draft picks absolutely uh i think kendall johnson somebody or kelton is somebody who doesn't get a like much love at all and you look at what he does like this guy like, this guy's pretty steady. I would think they would just be like, hey, let's be better. Because they don't ever seem to want to blow it up.

Yeah. So they'd be a team that would, it would seem to make sense. And I guess the other thing too, is that when you're talking to other teams, they all seem to think Aiton's going to leave because he wants to leave so badly now. Because it is strained. But look, if they match it,

I don't know. He's not going anywhere. I just have a hard time. I have a harder time believing that they're going to let him walk for nothing than just matching it. We agree. The only other thing I had

that I'm really intrigued by is the Boston-Milwaukee. We talked about Boston already, but Milwaukee with all these dudes that... I mean, even I mentioned a bunch of free agents before, but there's even this whole other list of Andre Drummond, Joe Ingles, Ricky Rubio, Goran Dragic, both Martin brothers, Dennis Schroeder, JaVale, Javon Carter. There's like 30

guys like that that I feel like could play in a nine-minute rotation in a playoff series. And I think much like Boston, Milwaukee really needs that one more swing, somebody in the perimeter so that Grayson Allen doesn't have to play all the minutes he played in that last round. Now, Middleton was part of that,

but they felt a guy short, maybe a guy and a half short last year. Boston was definitely a guy short. And there's more talent too, there just seems like there's more guys that I could see in a playoff series available in free agency versus like the old days of like the Jerome James for $30 million. You know, where we were like reaching for free agents. Now it's like

some of these guys are pretty good. Like I thought Javon Carter should play in that Celtics Bucks series more. You know, and he's probably like the 61st free agent on the list. Yeah, Jerome. He got that after what? That three-game series with Seattle? Yeah, I was joking about it in my column

that Isaiah was going to sign him before he got signed. And then Isaiah signed him. It was great. It was unbelievable. It was one of the great contract runs we've ever had. And it had no correlation to any other run in his career. I mean, he was like a five and three guy forever. And it just got hot.

Who was the matchup? What was the matchup? Was there no other center that he went up against? I thought it was against San Antonio. Oh, was it? Yeah, I think that's why people got excited. I mean, the best one of these ever was probably Marvin Webster. In the 78 playoffs, he had this huge run when he was in the Sonics.

And they ended up losing the title to Washington. But then he got signed by the Knicks. He got on the cover of Sports Illustrated. And it was just like he turned into Dwayne Dedman overnight. But there's been some good ones over the years. So is that not a vote for Dwayne Dedman? Yeah, he was not on my list. I thought he was pretty unplayable.

Nurkic is another one that I think everybody thinks he's going to go back to Portland and I don't know. And then there's the dudes who could be available for nothing like Duncan Robinson. There's a bunch of those guys too in like the 15 to 18 million range that I

think the Celtics could be interested for for the trade exception, stuff like that. Do you have a team that you feel like is kind of one not a top three guy, but somebody from like four

to six on a team that you feel like they could jump up? Because for me, it's Milwaukee's that team. I think Milwaukee would be the favorite if they got one other good guy, like a top five guy to add to what they have with Middleton coming back.

Well, look, Middleton missing this series probably cost them a ring because I don't know what... It seems like it did. It seems like it did. It's assuming a lot with Golden State. Maybe Golden State shoots their way through it and beats Milwaukee. So I don it did. It's assuming a lot with Golden State. Maybe Golden State shoots shoots their way through it and beats Milwaukee. So I won't want to say

it's a certainty, but like I just think I think Golden State without any size having to deal with Giannis for a seven game series. It's a disaster. Listen,

it all came around because in 2019 they should have won and they had that crazy run injuries and they lost to Toronto and they almost won anyway. And now in 2022

it all circled back. Yeah, usually if you have a bunch it usually feels like it's the right number. Like New England feels like the right number. Bam, I've already done this rant before so I don't need to do it again.

I think the Warriors 4 is the right number. Yeah. Yeah, it does because you could take away 15 or you could give them 16 with the tramon thing whatever uh i think lebron's heat run two and a half was probably the number and they ended up at

two but it easily could have been three but it also could have been one right but i'm just saying like looking at the way it was laid out for them in the East, especially, they really knowing that Rose basically lasted a year and got hurt. You just look back and you're like, man, that either could have been two or three. You're right, so it could have been one. So you're looking for a team that adds one other piece. It might be Boston.

If they get a wing who can score, they're going to be really good next year. You would think, too, that they'll be going into next year with different expectations of themselves, which I think is one of the most important things in sports. Do you now look at yourself a little differently when you look in the mirror?

Are you now holding yourself to a standard where you're like, no, we expect to win an NBA championship, not be a below 500 team in January, wondering if anybody gets along, wondering if the coaching hire was the right guy. Like they don't have to do any of that stuff anymore. I mean, they could struggle, but they're not going to have these doubts

of the unknown because they put together a really impressive season this year. So I would think if they added another piece and just the mentality of entering a season coming off of what they just did with real expectations, not just, hey, we want to sound cool and a quote expectations. I would think that they'd be, you know, primed to get through it again because you still don't know what's going on with Brooklyn.

I think Philly's a tough team to default to being like, yeah, they could be the best. That Mellon trade was good, though. I like that trade for them. Yeah, I really like that trade for them. You know, the weird thing, too, is that when you looked at the top teams, you're like, okay,

these are 51, 53 win teams. It's kind of where the league is now. Yeah, other than Phoenix. But then you could, every single fan base goes, well, we missed, we had all these guys that are missing. I don't know if you heard it,

but when I was doing the solo stuff when I was back in Boston for the finals, I went through the top 25 when I was back in Boston for the finals, I went through the top 25 scorers and on average, they missed like 21 games this past season. Now, some of that's because of protocol, but on the whole protocol, I think was like 1,500 games. And even then, sometimes protocol, you're not like, hey, we'll just put them in protocol or whatever if we're not 100% sure. So the top 25 players missed an average of like over 21 games in scoring, top 25 scores. It just made it really simple. Three years ago, four years ago, it was an average of six games missed by the top 25

scorers. So we've gotten through the third year of another weird year of who's available and who isn't. But when you look at the top of the league going, wait, are these teams just not that good or is the talent is dispersed more? Each single fan base will point to, well, we didn't win as many. Yeah, but if everybody was missing somebody,

then that kind of all balances it all out. Because almost everybody, I mean, hell, Boston might have been the healthiest of the group other than Phoenix. I did a lot of recon on this, trying to figure out what happened to Tatum and trying to figure out the exhaustion piece and all that stuff.

The consensus, not just from the Boston side, but just in general, was that there was enough credit given to the players and realized by everybody who follows the league about how hard those three seasons were in the row, basically. Just how much

basketball that was and how we're going to look back at that. And I think that ties into what you just said about the scores missing an average of 21 games. I just think the way those seasons played out from the moment the pandemic happened and they had the race back and they basically cramming in a whole extended postseason and then those two other seasons all next to each other.

I just think there was a lot of bad effects that everybody seems to be super fired up that everything is going to be normal again. But especially with Boston, people just seem to think like Tatum played a lot of basketball. I'm not making excuses for him. That was the, because his shoulder wasn't hurt, right? I mean, he had the stinger or whatever,

but the guy in the net series and the guy who finished that Warriors series were not the same guy. And I do think he ran out of gas. But that's what he has to learn. That's how you become great is not running out of gas. Realizing it's a marathon, not

a sprint, all that cliche stuff. But the Curry piece with the Warriors, you know, Curry missed Curry didn't play a ton of basketball. He had that whole that season after 19 when he basically, you know, Curry missed, Curry didn't play a ton of basketball. And he met, he had that whole, that, that season after 19

when he basically, you know, he got hurt. He missed a whole ton of it. Didn't make the playoffs last year. This year, he missed a bunch of time

and was really, really fresh as that playoffs went along, which I think helped him. Yeah, I just think he's so much stronger too. You know,

I think he, that's the piece. Did you read the right piece about why he's so much stronger too you know I think he that's a piece did you read the right piece about why he's so much better defensively oh well see here's the thing I've always defended his defense forever but I feel like he's like an asset now am I crazy

I'm not gonna tell you no I think people go into switch against him and then they're like oh wait you know he competes he gets in the right position so you think you're overpowering him i swear i'd love to know you know i guess i could look it up yeah but he he always was smart he was always positioned correctly yeah but i also just think he's so much stronger which is crazy because his drives i i felt felt like that 15 16 17 run you know 18 whatever is still part of it. You thought, could he really get you – could he go to the hoop when you needed him to get you a bucket?

Could he break you down and finish at the rim? There's just better options in the NBA than Steph Curry to have that. Some of the finishing at the rim stuff he was doing, I thought on top of the defense, he's put the work into his body and you can see it, and his game has benefited from it because I think he needed all that extra strength to close this thing out. And the way he played at the end of game six, he's getting ISO'd against Horford, and there was no resistance.

I don't know if he would go with that option four years ago, five years ago in the playoffs. They're definitely going to be better next year. I would think so. Clay will be better. Their young guys, I think, will be more helpful than they were this year. They'll actually be able to play them. I really think Moody can help them.

If they bring Peyton back, the continuity they have, the coaching, all that stuff, the fact that even Atkinson came back. It's going to be basically the same team with a lot more confidence and a lot more swagger, and they'll be really smart about the minutes. Before we go, you want to,

you want to do a pop culture stuff? Did you watch the old band? No, no, I haven't watched it yet. God damn it. I was fucking begging you to watch it. I fucking log in stuff is a mess right now.

I just, we're over here in a maze. You have a log in issues? Yeah. Just maze of confusion trying to get into different things. What are your summer post no basketball plans?

What are you thinking? any sort of TV deep dives? How are you going to replace it? I'd like to watch less TV. I was looking into Iceland. Oh, you're thinking trips now? Oh yeah,

no, no, big time. Yeah. Then there's a South of France thing I kept putting off. I've had it scheduled like three times and something would happen. One time it was a tryout at 710 ESPN Radio. They were like, just do it for us.

It'll be your call. I came back. I was like, all right, I'm going to do it. I'm going to move to LA. It was like 15. They're like, no, actually, we're kidding. It wasn't your call. I was like, yeah, just cancel the trip to France for this. Fake tryout? They're like, we actually we're kidding it wasn't your call i was like yeah i just canceled

the trip to france for this fake tryout like yeah sorry see so france is still calling you france yeah france is a strong quite strong possibility yeah i got a couple things that i want to do so you know i haven't really you know i don't know i I need a bit of a reset here, so I'm looking forward to it. You're like Jason Tatum. You need a reset. Yeah, I do. I do. I don't know. What? You're not traveling at all this summer? The only thing I know I'm doing is I have to go

to Sweden to meet all these Spotify people that I haven't met since we got bought 29 months ago. It was supposed to happen when we got bought. I've never, and I've never been to that part of the country. So that'll be fascinating.

I haven't even been on a long trip like that really since the 2012 Olympics, like flying that far away. So that's the one thing I know I have to do. But I'm the opposite of most people. I'm so excited to wind down and not do anything and just kind of get shit together and like do the drives with my son to freaking football practice and stuff like that versus, uh, scrambling around. So I don't, I don't know.

I'll figure it out right now. I felt weird the last couple of days though, not having to like sit in front of Synergy because I was, that's all I was doing towards the end, right from the draft. And so there is this massive hole of like, wait, I got up on Saturday and was like, you don't have to sit in front of this all morning. And football is still at least two months away. Good. I don't. Yeah.

People going like, oh, man, I have to wait eight more weeks for football. I'm like, yeah, it's fine. Cool. I don't, yeah. People, people going like, Oh man, I have to wait eight more weeks. I'm like, yeah, it's fine. Yeah. Cool. Take your time. I was listening to, um, I was driving around in the car, listening to W E I on my, on my car and this on through, through, uh, Spotify through the Odyssey app. Okay. And they were talking about the Pat's receivers. It was great. I felt like I was in Boston. And it was actually a good segment. I was impressed. The three guys, it was a guy named Fitzy,

Kyrie Thompson, and I'm going to blank on the third guy. But they were doing this segment about how the Pats don't have a number one receiver, but they have a lot of number two receivers. And it's like, can that be better in some ways? And I don't know, within 10 minutes, they got me excited about football.

I was like, yeah, maybe you don't need a number one receiver. Maybe you could just have a lot of different receivers. It was great. It was the perfect summer football segment that I didn't realize I had been waiting for. I used to love the breaking camp and then the four preseasons. And you're sitting there on the Monday after another preseason week, and you're like, they've got too many good players. I'm at 55. I can't believe they're going to cut this guy. How are they going to do? You're freaking out about the 53-man roster.

Local radio, man. The third guy was Brian Barrett. He was good. The guy, Kyrie, Kyrie, I think his last name is Thompson. He covers the Pats. He told this story about the second round pick. They drafted that he was the fastest person

he'd ever seen on a football field. And he told this story about how he just ran straight and he was like, it was hilarious. Like people were laughing at how fast he was and he was like, it was hilarious. Like people were laughing at how fast he was. I was like, this is great. This is, there's something about local sports radio. That's just really, uh, really heartwarming. Anyway, I'm going to start listening to more. Yeah. Cause I'm into this Red Sox season now. The Red Sox sucked me back in. I can't believe it happened.

I've been watching a lot. I just can't believe it. They have the worst worst, most eclectic, unconventional heart attack of a bullpen and just guys are moving there's guys that weren't even pitching a month ago that are pitching in eighth innings Tanner Hawk is now the closer who's supposed to be the starter all year

Whitlock is hurt. They finally figured out how to burn out. I have no idea how they're doing it and they just went through this gauntlet of bad teams that Whitlock is hurt. They finally figured out how to burn out Whitlock. I have no idea how they're doing it. And they just went through this gauntlet of bad teams that they had to kick their asses and they did. And now they're kind of set. They're the number one wild card. This team was an abomination.

So anyway, I've been back into it. Yeah, I keep seeing all the minor league guys. They're supposed to be awesome. Yeah, they're in that weird... They have a bunch of free agents coming up, but then they have a really good farm system. Just let all these dudes go

because the farm... But you always know how that turns out in baseball. Half the guys end up being busts. Yeah. Phil Plantaritis. I'm getting Blaze Jordan updates on my phone. There's a lot of them. Yeah. Phil Plantaritis. I'm getting Blaze Jordan updates on my phone. There's a lot of them. Yeah. Twitter is the best way to follow these minor league prospects too

because you can just watch these guys hit these bombs. You don't know where they are. They're in Nebraska playing some single A thing. It's like, look at that, 500-foot homer. I was pretty excited to pick up O'Neal Cruz on my fantasy team. Mm. 6'7 shortstop for the Pirates. I actually deep-dived him a little bit

because I couldn't believe there's a 6'7 shortstop. I didn't even understand how that happened. They were trying to say that if he plays the full season, he'll be the tallest. There's been guys that have been 6'7 that have played shortstop, but it wasn't necessarily their primary position the whole time. So I don't know. It's so funny

how there's certain sports or positions where height becomes this huge detriment and you just don't see it. The golf's like that. We have no 6'8 golfers. There's no Victor Zambowai Wampanyama for golf.

Like, oh my God, this golfer is 7'3. He can hit every shot. It just never happened. The future of golf is probably like 5'9. But the 6'7 shortstop,

it's like, really? I mean, the Otani thing is amazing too. It's like we watch more and more baseball when there's nothing going on. Fucking guys. They're almost going to have to figure out how to get him in one of the big markets, it seems like.

I'm not a big market, small market guy, but I do think he needs to be in one of the biggest teams. But when you think about these big conversations we have, right? Yeah. There was one time I was like, could Aaron Judge save baseball? He might be saving it this year. Right. And you're like, well,

what, what, what happens where somebody goes, I wasn't interested, but that Aaron Judge, you know, I'm gonna stick around

and watch Sunday night. I don't know if that's possible. If, if Shohei Itani can't get people interested in it, but I, you know, I don't,

I know it's been discussed in the past, you know, depending on, know it's been discussed in the past you know depending on on the connection that he would or wouldn't have to a fan base here in the states but he's he's like this thing that we were told was impossible forever yeah he's having the week that he just had and okay if he were with the dodgers or he were with the Yankees you know or if he were with the Cubs would would baseball actually like I just feel like these conversations keep recycling and I don't know if any of them are paying off for the way people think that one baseball player can try to get this the momentum of the sport back in the right direction you're missing one

piece of it though all that matters is the playoffs in baseball. Because I think you have a lot of fans that just float in for the last six weeks, right? Him not being in the playoffs year after year is a disaster. That's what I mean by he needs, he just needs to be on a team that's going to be consistently better. That's going to spend money that will be in the mix in October. To just not have him in October is nuts. It would be like if, I don't know, if LeBron for the first like 10 years of his career

just didn't play in the playoffs ever. You know? The playoffs ultimately is, I think, where they, where baseball gets to crossover stuff. You know, from the mainstream audience

to casual fans. Some people just float in for the last six weeks. So, that's what they're missing. So, they got to figure it out. Yeah, it does. There people just float in for the last six weeks. So that's what they're missing. So they got to figure it out. Yeah, it does. There's just nothing like him.

It does feel like March Madness a little bit, which, you know, I don't think anyone would be thrilled if they said this is great. No one cares about a regular season anymore

the way they used to, but they only care about the playoffs. The playoffs have been awesome. Like baseball playoffs storylines, however long you want to go back, I mean, there have been some incredible storylines. I don't know that there's anything that replaces the tenseness of if you care about baseball, it's awesome. But when I think about Otani and then the fact that Ted Williams has been his teammate there for this long,

and I went, I don't know if it's the park. I don't know. You know, I don't know if it's the area. You know, look, I just lived here a couple of years, but I don't. Nobody talks about that Angels team. Yeah. It never comes up. It's pretty rough. Yeah, I'm going to go to a UFC thing, I think. That's on my list. I think I'm going to go to the Vegas one.

I'm sure I'll go to some wrestling event. Other than that, it'm going to go to the Vegas one. I'm sure I'll go to some wrestling event. Other than that, this is the first time since we were re-watching Michael Jordan games in April, May that year. I think it's been this straight sprint of sports really ever since the bubble. It's been two years of just sports constantly where there's always been something.

It's kind of been an amazing time to be a fan in a lot of ways. And now there's always been something. It's kind of been an amazing time to be a fan in a lot of ways. And now it's going to die because when we get through free agency, it's baseball for two months. It's some MMA stuff. Wimbledon might be interesting if Nadal can try to make one last run.

We'll see if that Algaraz guys can make a jump. But other than that, and then all of a sudden it's going to blow up again. We're going to have college football, NFL, basketball's coming back, baseball playoffs,

and then world cup November. And it's going to be like this, another crazy run, but this is like the calm before the storm. It feels like. Yeah. I hadn't even thought about that. Somebody asked me about the world cup.

Like, who do you like? I was like, when is it like November I'm like yeah what are you doing even Cerruti's not

focused on it yet alright that's it I got nothing else unless you have anything else no I don't I think I think

I think that's it I mean just think next week's gonna be awesome I mean we spent four hours talking to each other on Thursday yeah I kind of knew this episode like I think between what we just did and then what will be just think next week's going to be awesome. I mean, we spent four hours talking to each other on Thursday. Yeah. I kind of knew this episode, like I think between what we just did and then what will

be coming up next week, like this is sort of a halftime thing. So, yeah. So I'll see you. I'll see you from Sunday. You can hear Roussel's podcast. Thanks to Kyle Creighton for producing. Thanks to Steve Cerruti and Dylan Berkey as well. And I will see you on this feed on Tuesday and on the rewatchables on Monday night.