The Bill Simmons Podcast - The Dame Trade Hostage Crisis, a Lethal Browns D, and Miami’s Speed and Motion Apex With Wosny Lambre and Michael Lombardi

Episode Date: September 27, 2023

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Wosny Lambre to discuss new reports that the Raptors are a front-runner to acquire Damian Lillard in a trade (3:32), before looking at some fake trades and sleeper teams for Lillard (21:27). Next, Bill talks with Michael Lombardi about the Browns' dominant defense (45:17), the terrifying Dolphins offense (1:08:42), and more. Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Michael Lombardi and Wosny Lambre Producer: Kyle Crichton The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming up, a little football, a little basketball. Next, it's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest rated sports book is the best place to bet it all. We've been doing pretty well on million dollar picks this year. I love the first month of the season because you have to go into the season thinking, I think Pittsburgh's going to be good. I think the Chargers are going to be good, I think Pittsburgh's going to be good. I think the Chargers are going to be good. I think Seattle's going to be good. And then trying to back

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The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit RG-Help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. You must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem called Win 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Prime Video. You know me, I can't go a day without sports. I really can't. And now Monday nights are all about hockey. That's right. There's a new exclusive home for streaming Monday night NHL hockey. And it's on prime all season long. Watch prime Monday night hockey deliver unreal plays. The biggest goals can't miss moments. Matthews,

McDavid, Crosby, the NHL is best. They're all on Prime. Prime Monday Night Hockey. It's on Monday. It's on Prime. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where I put up a new rewatchable on Monday night. It was my birthday, so I decided to treat myself with one of my favorite movies, The Big Chill. Me, Sean Fantasy, Chris Ryan.

It is basically the 40th anniversary of this movie as well, so that was a fun wrinkle. Plus my mom's favorite normal movie. And I actually asked my mom to come on this podcast. She turned me down, had no interest, said nobody wants to hear from her. I said, that's actually not true. People would love to hear your thoughts on the big show. She said, no, I have not heard from her about the episode yet I'm sure something made her mad but I was very excited about this episode

it's almost two hours we had a great time so that's it for that next week Kyle Brandt's coming on and you know what happens when Kyle Brandt comes on

there's a specific type of movie we do so I'll just leave you with that thought you can get excited for the next six days coming up on this podcast, we're going to talk to Big Waz

about the Dame Lowered trade saga, which has kept all of us hostage for the last three months. But now there's signs of light that something might happen. We're going to talk about what we think is the single most fun team Dame can go to.

So there's that. And then our old friend, Mike Lombardi, is going to stop by to talk about the Dolphins and the Browns and Caleb Williams and all of the midweek football subplots that we find. So fascinating, really fun NFL season so far, by the way, I've been,

been enjoying myself. I just realized that media day is coming for hoops on October 2nd. Rosillo and House and I are doing our annual over-unders triple pot or however many parts that's going to be. That's going to be sometime in mid-October. And I've done zero research. I have no NBA thoughts whatsoever. I've been just in football, football, football. So over the next couple of weeks, I'm going to be diving into the NBA as well. This is a very, very busy time, but also an unbelievable time if you love sports, which I still do somehow.

Very excited to see where this NBA season goes. I can't remember more teams either in flux or feeling a little worse than they did last year or feeling completely different than they did last year. I keep staring at the big slate like, who do you love in the East? Who do you love in the West? Denver, maybe. Their bench is worse. But it's just a really hard one. Usually when we get to the end of September, we always think, all right, I feel really good about these three teams. And I just don't feel that way yet.

So maybe as I dive into my whole research process, which by the way, I yielded for you guys, Denver in the finals last year. That was my big bet. Maybe as I throw myself into this process, I will have some dimes of knowledge for you in October. All right. We're going to start this podcast first, our Waz is here.

We are in month three of the Dame Lower Trade hostage situation. It is, I don't know, we're at one-fourth of a year. There seemed like there were some flickers of light over the last few days. We had a mystery team, and then it turned out the Raptors were involved. I got to say, I took the Raptors thing seriously. I think it actually makes sense, and I want to dive into it. You are way more dubious. Why are you dubious?

Because it's not really how Messiah operates. The guy was asking for four picks for OG Ananobi just six months ago, and now he's going to trade him for Dame Lillard? It doesn't make sense. Dame Lillard is only fetching two picks right now on the open market. Nobody's come with a better package than that. Two picks and some nice young guys. And OG Ananobi, who this guy was asking for four first-round picks for,

was never in the deal. Obviously, Scottie Barnes wasn't in the deal. He was trying to put a team together that had OG, Scottie, and Siakam to bring in Dame. So it was like, you know, I'm going to shove Grady Dick down their throat and I'm going to give them Gary Trent Jr. and keep it pushing in a couple of picks. And that's nobody's idea of an excellent package for Damian Lillard. I can't believe you just said the word shove Grady Dick down their mouth,

which I don't think needs to be bleeped. I actually think it was a PG comment. So I'm going to zag on the Ananobi thing. First of all, do we have actual evidence that he turned down four first-round picks? Maybe he just didn't want to trade them last year. Maybe he knew Van Vliet was leaving. Ananobi, I think, has a player option after this year. I do think

he could be the centerpiece of a trade. And if you're telling me... I was writing down all these different possibilities. And again, who knows what's true, who's not true. But if they had Ananobi, they put Grady Dick in there, they put the Boucher and Thad Young contracts, they threw in two firsts and a swap

and got back Dame, they would still have Dame and Barnes and Siakam. They'd have Jakob Pertl. They'd have Trent. They'd have Dennis Schroeder, who they kind of quietly signed, whose stock is about as high as it's been in four years. They signed McDaniels,

who at least as a young swing has potential. They still have Precious, if they didn't put him in that trade. And Otto Porter. But man, I just feel like the East is wide open. And if Barnes made a jump, Siakam is always either one of the six, seven, eight, nine best forwards in the league.

And then Dame is kind of the centerpiece of it. I don't hate it. I got to be honest. I don't hate it. I don't hate it either. And I love it. But the only thing I will say is this guy will not move will not he will not

move his guys if he doesn't feel like he got the perfect deal even even at the risk of letting them walk for free he's done it two times already with Fred Van Vliet and Kyle Lowry like he just straight up they could have moved on from those guys and gotten decent value from him but because he didn't absolutely love the deal he didn't move on. So that's why I think he has to love it to move on from OG. But yes, I would be very excited to tune into League Pass every single night

to see Dame finally play around some of the rangy, athletic type of wing players that he so obviously needed his whole career. So yeah, it would be a lot of fun. But, you know, I'm dubious when I hear Masai's in the trade that he's not absolutely cleaning people's clocks on the other end of it. So Ananobi only makes 18.6 this year, and then he's got the player option for next year, which he will surely opt out of that contract and become a free agent.

What is he worth in the open market? I have never been able to really get a handle on this dude. He had a serious knee injury at one point, came back. The Raptors have always had weird chemistry issues the last couple of years. And I don't think it was Fred VanVleet's fault because everybody thinks he's the greatest guy. He's the mayor of the league. You go through the roster, it's like, where are these, where are these chemistry issues coming from? There's only like four staples. I doubt that Scotty Barnes at age 20 or whatever he is,

is. So I do wonder maybe there's a piece of this with the Ananobi where maybe he's a fresh start guy. And if you're Portland and you could turn Damon to him, you're going to turn your whole team over to scoot and Simons and shade and sharp. You have Grant and Ananobi as the wings. It's like, it's not nothing.

It's at least the foundation of something. No, and I think OG has had such an outsized reputation around the league, which is funny because it's kind of incongruent with the rumblings you hear out of Toronto that he wants to be more involved offensively. And it's basically never proven that he deserves to be more important offensively, but his value is derived that he could be a supercharged, superstar in his role kind of guy, an elevated Bruce Brown, if you will, Mikael Bridges types back when he was doing on the Suns.

And to some people, that's worth between worth between 25 and 30 million per season, you know, to be that only, the only problem is, is that OG, if you were to believe the reports out of Toronto has fancied himself as a more on ball primary kind of guy. And I've never seen that in any of his minutes in the league.

But who knows? I've been wrong before. Well, it's funny. You have the glass half full, perfect, perfect 3 and D guy. Yes. Glass half empty, he wants to be more than a 3 and D guy. Right. We've seen this before where it's like, no, no, you're perfect.

You're going to be the third guy in the movie. We're not putting you on the poster. You're not going to solve the case. But you're going to be right going to be the third guy in the movie. We're not putting you on the poster. You're not going to solve the case, but you're going to be right there next to the guy who solves the case, and you'll probably die with 20 minutes to go in the movie. But it's going to be amazing. You might get nominated for Best Supporting. And he's like, no, I want to solve the case.

You'll be Marky Mark in The Departed, Bill. People love that guy in that movie. Everybody has a high opinion of him. He's only asked to do what he's incredible at, you know? And so he would shine in a role on a team that has serious championship aspirations. You know, I'm thinking about

what he could do with Golden State or with your Celtics, now that they don't have Marcus Smart or like any number of contenders. Like everybody needs a dude who could scale up as far as guarding threes even some fours and scale down like you got no problem putting him on ones every single day of

the week the most elite ones in the league so obviously his value is there but again i i feel like messiah jerry knows all these things about og and anobi and is going to want to sell extremely high on him, if not just keep him outright. Would you include Barnes? Would Barnes be on the table for you in a Dame trade? And then you get to keep Siakam and OG and Barnes and now it'd be your three. So that's a two-headed question, right? Me personally, I'm a lot less bullish on Scottie Barnes as I feel like his reputation around the league would sort of indicate. So I would give it a strong consideration

just because I just think I don't see a future where Scottie Barnes is an efficient, offensive, you know, one-on-one type of score. I just don't see that for him however if the people out there for dane are maxi and tyler hero uh scotty barnes just has more value right now than those two guys so the idea that i'm just gonna go trump everybody um sorry um antifa that i'm just gonna go trump everybody everybody with this Scotty Barnes pick. I don't see why you would go out and do that.

And I think that's what the Miami thing ultimately comes down to. It's like nobody's come with a better offer than this. Why should we make ours better? I thought Barnes took a step back last year. I'm not the only one who thought that. I think everybody was expecting a leap. Usually in year two, you make the leap. When I was doing my trade value, I had him 50th.

And I think he was in the 30s when I did the first batch of it. I don't know. If I'm Portland, that's a better prize to me than anything else that's out there. Because I can be like, all right, I got him and I got scoot. Like I really, that's an identity. Now I have two guys who are gonna, you know,

show up and roll their sleeves up and go. Um, in an OB, I think the thing that would worry me is the price tag in a year and pain injury history too. And the injury, as you know, you,

you're one of the stars of my worst contracts pod that we do every year with House, which is probably my favorite two hours of the year. There is nothing worse than paying the $25 million guy 40 plus. That's my least favorite thing. I can't handle it. And when your own team does it, it's the worst.

Even like we saw some of the wild contracts we had this last summer, they were a little mitigated. The Van Vliet, it wasn't as bad as it was first reported. It's a two-year deal. It's a lot, but they're paying for some credibility and some veteran dudes.

I get it. But when you start going 180 million for four years for a guy who I'm not sure can be one of the three best guys on a title team. So you're in the Michael Porter zone, right? Where Denver, they'll do that deal again because as expensive as it was, it helped win them the title. And he's got really special skills that fit their team, but he's their fourth best guy. And you can do that when you have Jokic. If I don't have Jokic, I'm a little more nervous about paying kind of a three slash four best guy,

40 million a year. I feel like if you pay OG that amount, he becomes the wing version of the Rudy Gobert deal, right? Where it's like, this guy is obviously, I think, a plus NBA player. He obviously gives you, you know, a lot of a lot of stuff that that you need a big time playoff matchups. Right. Again, the way he can scale up his defense from the wings is incredible. But he's never been a consistent shot creator. Obviously, he's nobody's version of a playmaker. And we're calling him a three and D wing. That three, it comes in and out, right? And again, he's a hard worker.

Like, this is a high motor guy. I think he's, you know, he's the type of guy anybody would want on his team. But like that price tag, of course, that comes with its own risk factors. And, you know, it depends on the team. Like now, like if you're Matt Ishbia and you just don't care about money anymore and it's like yo we get og it just means we're gonna have to pay him 35 mil or something crazy like that you might do it because he's perfect next to next to the wings that he has because they have all ball dominant guys out there and he can be the kind of guy the swiss army

knife sort of bruce bowen-esque excuse me um bruce brown bruce brown sorry brucey b that's what i wanted to say um like he could be that type of guy on a championship team but who's willing to pay for that for real well the other thing with OG, the team wasn't, you know, they were 48 and 34 in 22 and they lost the first round. Last year, they're 41 and 41 and we were all watching it going,

what the hell's going on with this team? Doesn't seem like they love each other. Why do they keep blowing these games late? And he's in his mid-20s and I think when you hit 26, 27 in the NBA, you kind of are who you are. But as a prize for a trade,

for what Portland needs, because the thing with Portland that everybody seems to keep overlooking with the Dame trade is that they also have to get somebody that makes sense for the team they have. And that's why the Miami-Tyler Heroth, they never made sense. I also feel like, cause if you've noticed the dialogue around Miami has cooled off a lot with

Dame. And I think that's because there's some bigger prizes that have jumped into the, uh, into the pool, right? Mitchell's lurking now. Like he,

and I, I don't know when that story is going to, when they officially gonna, you know, the logs are going to be thrown on that fire, but it will be in the next two months. And there's just too many rumblings now. Embiid, who knows

what's going to happen with Philly. And then the big one is Giannis that everybody's been talking about for a couple months. But I think with a couple of these teams like Miami and Brooklyn, these teams that have assets and clearly want to go in on somebody, you do have to start thinking like, wow, what happens if that guy becomes available?

And Dame's 33, you kind of start talking yourself out of it a little, right? Oh my God, he's going to be making $60 million in three years. He's going to be 36. He can't guard anybody now. What's it going to look like three years from now? Maybe we wait for Giannis. Like what would you, if you're in the room, what would you, what would you like if you're in the Miami room and they're like,

Waz, we need some help with heat culture. Come on in. Would you tell them to go all in on Dame right now? Or would you be like, let's wait? No, I think the reason why they've been this patient is because they know exactly what you've just stated, Bill. They know that if they don't get the Dame situation for the price that they like, there's no reason to jump out the window. This is an organization that's been very successful for a very long time. They don't have to jump at the first shiny thing that they see for a price that is outrageous. You bring up Donovan Mitchell. I give props to the Knicks, man, for not pulling the trigger on that deal last summer.

And they completely pants that same Donovan Mitchell in the playoffs. They made him look horrific. They proved that he would not have been worth the haul that Utah was asking for at the time. And so I think Miami is the kind of organization where they're not going to just get fleeced, especially when they feel like they can always go big game hunting at another place. They feel like their organization is very attractive and, you know, they're going to be a viable option for any superstar that goes back onto the market. And, you know, again, you see Giannis already yelling at his new ownership in the public. Like

if you guys think you're going to come here and start cheapskating in and try teardowns and try and nickel and dime me and my squad, it's not happening. I'm getting out of here. So they can read the writing on the wall as well as anybody else. Yeah, and it would have helped them if Jovic went nuts in the world championships, which didn't totally happen. But when your best offer is basically, what else is everyone offering? It gets a little tough. there about the deal that Portland is off excuse me the deal that Miami's offering right and you know you'll hear on the tv side of ESPN oh this is the worst deal in the history of deals whatever and then you know people who I respect like my man Tim Bontemps uh Kevin Pelton same network

it's like the deal has been mischaracterized as bad. If you think Pat Riley's about to be 90 years old, we already talked about the age and the contracts of Dame and Jimmy Butler. That thing is not going to be extremely unstoppable forever. I think those future Miami Heat assets are actually pretty attractive if you're just being sober about it. But, you know, nobody else has jumped in you know like nobody else is like look i want to go all in and give you a rudy gobert type package kevin durant type of package for dame so why should the heat just do this i don't understand i also it's weird i i really like hero as an asset and I just don't like him for Portland,

but I still believe in that guy. Like he's only 23. I like that. He rebounds. Yeah. I think he's a really good heat check score. Um, I think it's a bad sign for them that they, that they played better without him after he got hurt in the playoffs. That would be the one way you would really ding them. But as an asset, like I had him in my top 60, whatever it was for trade value. I just don't know how he makes sense of Portland. Let's take a break. I wanted to throw a Brooklyn Philly situation at you. Get ready to start the NFL week off right with FanDuel Sportsbook. Right now, all customers get a no sweat same game parlay for Thursday night football. Just place a three-leg same-game parlay

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So one of the interesting things about this theme stuff is that even me, the Picasso, the trade machine, with three months and a lot of spare time this summer and some cocktails and some really good Wi-Fi. Even I couldn't really figure it out. Like you were like, oh yeah, let me figure out a golden state trade. That'll be easy. And with these new rules and like, you know, it's really hard to match the salaries.

I'm like, I'll do Chris Paul and Kaminga and Moody. And then I'll throw some, and it's like, you still can't get it to work. Milwaukee is another one where you're like, oh, Milwaukee, yeah, we'll get Holiday and some future picks. It's like, oh, they don't have any picks. Oh, they don't really have any assets. Oh, why would Portland want Drew Holiday?

And you just get talked out of it. Chicago's another one. It's like, oh, all right, Zach Levine's centerpiece. I'll throw in some, and then quickly you realize that's not happening. There's a Philly, Brooklyn, Portland three-way that we've been talking about in this pod

for a while. There's been a lot of three-way, four-way talk lately in the trade rumor stuff. Anytime there's a four-way, I'm like, no fucking way. It never happens ever in the NBA. We get four GMs and owners to agree on a trade.

Good luck. But there was that stuff about, well, Phoenix could end up with Nurkic and then Aiton would go to Portland as part of a larger deal. It's like, what is this? Is somebody making this up or is there smoke? Anyway, Philly and Brooklyn. What makes sense to me

is if Brooklyn gave up a bunch of stuff from Maxie, who I think we both really like and is on a cheap rookie contract arrow pointing up. You could argue he was in kind of a bad situation for the talent that he is where Harden has the ball all the time

and Bede's a ball stopper. Maxie really thrived when basically when one of those guys wasn't on the floor. Um, and if you're Brooklyn, would you go kind of semi all in on him and just try to keep bridges with Cam Johnson and Simmons and try to build something? And then if you're,

if you're Philly, can you get enough back for Maxie that now you can put more together and try to get Dame? And here's my case for Dame. And then I'll let you go Philly, can you get enough back from Maxie that now you can put more together and try to get Dame? And here's my case for Dame and then I'll let you go. If I'm Philly with Embiid, do you feel like Embiid's going to be at a high level

for like the next seven years? Because I don't. Absolutely not. What would you do over under for Embiid being a guy who can play nine months a year and stay healthy and stay on the court? Yeah. Being like a top 15 guy. You'd have to set it at three years. That's my point.

How much longer is Dame going to be awesome? Probably three years. So if I had this three year window with Embiid for the next three years, is Lillard better than Maxie? I think he is. I think he's just a better player. So when they talk about, oh, we'd never consider Maxie, I guess my question is, why not? Like, you have this three-year window with Embiid who might ask for a trade in four months if none of this stuff works out. Maybe you should be thinking about Dame and Maxie. What do you think about that? I'll just say just say this about this we don't the maxie if it's

one thing we know about daryl morey in his front office is they will lie to the media they will put lies out there to the media they will put mistruths out there to and it's their job too this is not to disparage daryl morey it's his job to sort of you know build leverage whenever he doesn't have any um but yeah maxi is cheap for now but you know he's got the freaking jordan pool uh tyler hero ish deal maybe maybe higher right maybe like 35 million maybe even higher than that but yeah i think philadelphia i don't think they were ever in the Dame sweepstakes. But I think that always made sense to me just with Embiid is that that type of defensive anchor. And Dame could just be the guy that does it at the end of games.

He can buy this time throughout. He can let Embiid get his 30, 35, because he loves his stats. But when it's important, when you need a bucket against the freaking Celtics to close them out in game six of a series, you should have beat those dudes. You got Dame to do that. And I think, obviously, it's a no-brainer. Now, I don't know how Dame feels about that situation over there in Philadelphia. I don't know how he feels about Darryl Morey, the kind of guy who makes promises to people so that they could

bully their way to his team and then not pay them. I don't know how he feels about that. Oh, that's what happened? That's what happened. That's 100% what happened, Bill. It's 100% what happened. They told Harden to not take that Brooklyn deal.

He had $160 million on the table. He said, don't do it so you can leverage your way over here. Don't worry, we got you. Harden clearly. I don't think they told him anything because it's illegal, but maybe they wink winked it.

Maybe they batted their eyelashes at him. They absolutely told that man not to take his extension. He's been taking extensions his whole damn career. Well, it's too bad James Harden's six years old and has to listen to adults. Like, he's an adult.

He's a man in his 30s. He didn't take $168 million. Hold on. Let me just give you a lesser version of this, right? Reggie Jackson, he gets waved and he makes sure he goes to the Nuggets with the wink-w wink being that we're going to pay you this summer. All right.

Like Reggie Jackson couldn't even make it onto the court. Right. Last playoffs. He needs a training camp. There was an understanding like, nah, we already told this dude we was going to pay him. That's that's how the league operates. Darryl Moore. That's what's happening with James Harden.

He's like, what the hell? You guys screwed me. And Darryl Morey, credit to him, he understands that James Harden, not a very sympathetic figure, he can screw him around. He's not going to win this war in the media. It's not happening for him. People have watched him play, watched him come up short. It doesn't matter.

This is how the league operates. Darryl Morey is going reneging on something. This is just how the league goes. But, you know, James Harden is James Harden. I think people are kind of sick of him and they're fine with him getting completely screwed here. But yes, to go back to Dane, I think

the Philly thing is good for Dane. I genuinely disagree with your take, but I respect your side. And we'll never know what happens, so we'll never be able to decide who's right. I genuinely disagree with your take, but I respect your side. And we'll never know what happens, so we'll never be able to decide who's right. I genuinely think that he had bad advice from whoever was advising him. And I think he thought he had a Houston thing coming. And then I think that Houston thing

completely flipped on the Haredi doka. I'm pretty positive this happened. And all of a sudden he's like looking at Philly. Oh, Hey, what about you guys? And Philly was like, we thought you were going to Houston.

What, what's going on? And then he opts in. And when he opts in, Daryl's like, all right, I'll try to trade you. And guess what?

Nobody wanted them. Like literally nobody wanted him. They couldn't even muster up a fake Clippers rumor. Where it's like, oh man, it's close now with Terrence Mann and Robert Covington. They couldn't even, it was never even close. It was like just a couple of courtesy calls. Who wants him? Nobody.

I think Harding went out and made that houston thing happen because he got the sense that he was about to get screwed so he tried to get the houston thing to happen um again he made he's made mistakes he's made a lot of this is amazing i'm so happy right now the james hardin defender like you should you could open a law office james hardin james i'm here for you would not be worth that brooklyn extension that was on the deal today on the table while he's still over there to sign it today he would not be worth that but that's not what we're talking about it was there for him and he didn't do it so he could leverage his way to be with daryl morey again we should have known

there was paradise when on christmas eve this guy's putting rumors out that he might sign with Houston. That was the sign that he was like, wow, these guys about to try to screw me. Like, oh, my God, I need to go out and actually create leverage here, even though I had a promise. And, you know, we've seen how this thing goes again. James Harden, I don't feel sorry for him. He's not a sympathetic figure. But this is not how to do feel sorry for him. I think you feel feel sorry for him. He's not a sympathetic figure, but this is not how to lead operates. I think you do feel sorry for him. I think you feel bad for him.

You texting him? I'm not texting him. I'm not texting him. We have mutual acquaintances, but I'm not texting him. I think you've been at the club with James. No. James, I got you, man.

No, not recently anyway. You know what's crazy about the NBA and one of the goofy reasons I love it so much? You can go from being worth $40 million a year to three overnight. Like we just watched that put a Westbrook. Westbrook made 47 last year. He's making 3.8 this year.

And that was probably the most he was going to get from anybody. And Harden, the fact that he looked at, all right, if I opt out, what can I get? And it wasn't going to be close to the 35 that he opted in on. That's alarming. This guy was one of the best 15 guys in the league for most of last year. So I think the opt-in sort of gives Lentz credence to my theory of the case, Bill bill because Harden has been a money conscious person his whole career and so the idea that this guy's turning money down just for the love of it makes no sense and I think the opt-in this year just shows his money-driven nature because he could have leveraged Houston by opting out like this idea just like, you no longer control my rights.

I'm willing to sign somewhere else for nothing just to spite you guys. You don't have my rights. You can't trade me to get something. And your team becomes measurably way worse without my production from last year. Like that's all he had to do. He had to be willing to take a haircut this year

in order to stick it to to to philly but he was just like nah i can't leave 30 million dollars on the table like if he was willing to go you know like psychopaths and just be like look man i'll sign for the minimum somewhere i'm not coming back on the sheet on on less than what you guys um should be giving me i think he would have got his money by now, man. If you're Portland, would you take Harden in a three-way with Philly and Brooklyn? His expiring, would you take it?

And think like, oh, maybe he plays well for two months and we can flip it or we'll just buy him out? I mean, they're not in a win-now mode, so it would definitely help that cause for sure. I don't know if you want, you know, your new savior, Scoot Henderson to be getting,

how to be a professional tips from James Harden. Maybe there's a rule in the, a condition in the trade that he's not allowed to hang out with James after 10 PM. Some sort of, some sort of bracelet. That's a silent alarm. If they're near each other service on him.

Yeah. Um, cause what I was thinking was if Brooklyn took back Nurkic and Brooklyn sent Claxton to Portland and harder went to Portland as an expiring, Dame went to Philly and Maxie went to Brooklyn and then Brooklyn through some of their first, they have from Phoenix and Dallas and some of their own future ones. Maybe Philly throws in a first. Now we're in the vicinity of something. If I'm Brooklyn and I have a chance to just trade some future picks that I have no idea if they're even going to be any good, Phoenix is going to to spend money this whole decade, whether they win the title or not. I don't see a world where it collapses. Um,

I'm, I'm mildly intrigued by that. But as we said before, three ways always have a problem. I like what you said about the Miami picks. I think that's a really good point that with Butler, Butler's now, what is he going to be?

34 this year. Um, Lowry is going to be an expiring. We have no idea if they're going to be able to replace that money with a guy next summer. Heroes, they try to trade all summer. He's got to be not too psyched to be there. But it's not inconceivable that that thing could go sideways. The other team that just keeps getting mentioned,

like they were, KOC said on the mismatch that they had one of the best odds to trade for Dame was the Celtics. And I'm not even going to acknowledge that. I don't see any way unless- Would they trade Chris Dapps? What is going on? No, I mean, I just don't see how it would go because they're not trading Derek White. They love Derek White. One of the reasons they made the market smart trade was to unleash Derek White. So Brogdon and Robert Williams and some firsts, I think that's worse than Miami offer. So that's a cross off. And then the only other one, you're going to laugh, is if it's just a straight up Brooklyn, Portland deal with the fact that Ben Simmons is now playing five on five

and he's 100% physically. And do you roll the dice with that if you're Portland as the contract and it's Dame and Nurkic for Simmons and Claxton and you get a shitload of their picks? And you roll the dice with it. He's got a new agent. He's got Jimmy Butler's agent now. Ben Simmons is back.

Bill, here's the problem, though. You drafted your point guard of the future, and Ben Simmons is telling everybody, I'm a point guard. When I come back, I'm playing point guard. Everybody knows that's his real position. Ben Simmons, the idea that anybody would voluntarily bring that man into their building is,

whoo, that's laughable. But I wanted to, you know, I had a couple of ideas I wanted to bring. Let's hear it. Throw them at me. And I feel like you would have came with this, but for your Boston bias, the Lakers, the Lakers, we love Austin Reeves, but that deal is a beautiful one. I think that is a great centerpiece for a deal. The D-Lo deal happened literally so he could be put in a trade. Right. So you start the deal off with that foundation.

You find a little bit more money. You send those picks that you didn't waste on um trying to get off of russell's deal last year the lakers try to get in there lebron dame ad i like this i think you know this gives you a better chance certainly of getting buckets against denver which you couldn't do for the life of you in the conference finals last year i i think the lakers should be looking the only thing is the lakers are the of the cheapest teams in the league somehow, even though they're the richest. And I don't know that they would do this with the new cap restraints

and the implications of Dame's deal going forward. But shoot, man. Austin Reeves is as good a prospect with the deal that he's on as anybody, any young guy I've heard seriously mentioned in the Dame Lillard sweepstakes. I think the only problem with that, they couldn't make a deal until mid-December because you can't trade anyone you signed over the summer until mid-December. People are going to get mad at this. I don't care. If we were doing rank the Dame assets and I gave you Maxie and Ananobi and Reeves and Tyler Hero, I think I like Reeves the most.

By far when you consider the money. I don't think that's controversial. Yeah, the money and the performance in big spots. I just think he's a really unique guy. Come on. I mean, he's a really unique guy. Come on. I mean, like, it's not even close. Again, OG is somebody who we're talking about. His next deal might be worth $130 million, $140 million.

Some people predicted maybe even $150 million. You know, Austin Reed just signed for a pittance. And that's a four-year contract. Come on now. Lakers, Lake Show, get it done. Let's have some fun in Los Angeles again, Bill. I'll never forgive the Spurs. I'm going to be bringing up for the next four years that they just allowed this to happen. The super smart, savvy Spurs just sitting there with their fingers up their assholes for six days in July. All you have to do is make the restricted offer

for $90 million. The Lakers are going to match, and now you've weakened the Lakers. It's a fucking competitive sport. Yeah. And instead, Reeves is out there. The Team USA, everyone who coached him in Team USA is like, fucking love Austin Reeves.

Oh my God. Can't believe how great he is. What other sleeper teams do you have other than the Lakers? Anybody else? I think people should be thinking about Orlando. They'd have to put the preacher man, Markel Fultz. You know, take your pick of one of the young guards that they have and maybe throw in a couple of picks in there and bring Damon.

As long as you keep Paolo and France as part of what they're doing, I think that would be a very, very interesting team going forward. I think Dame would be rejuvenized by playing with those guys or feel rejuvenated. Why did I say rejuvenated? I like rejuvenized. I've never heard that word before. Let's go with that.

I'm like a rapper inventing words again. I like Orlando as a sleeper team. And, I mean, this is a team that's been mentioned before. But if Portland somehow got it in their minds that Carl Anthony Towns was a suitable pickup. Yeah, that's my favorite. I would love to see Dane playing with Rudy and Ant, man. That would be incredible. Yeah, so I asked you when you came on,

what's the most fun team for him to go to? And it's unquestionably Minnesota. If they just pull off... The trade solves so many different issues, right? Minnesota, I want to really enjoy watching them all year. I know I'm not going to with this Towns Go Bear thing. And they're never going to solve that. It's never going to work. And they're going to have to fix it at some point. So just fix it now. And then for Portland, we get the

Dame trade anyway. I like Towns as a fit on that team. I'm still like, I don't know. We had Austin Rivers on the pod last week. I was you know what's your take on Towns he's like he's a good guy I mean he really was like you know it's frustrating but he's ultimately a good guy

hitting his late 20s which perennially in NBA history usually guys figure it out at least a little bit by then if they've if they've been a little choppy

but he has put up big stats and for what Portland's going to be that's like the perfect guy to add for that team. I just like the idea of Damon. And I feel like that would be a top five league pass team, right? I mean, no question. It would absolutely be in my top five.

And I think Rudy would still be able to do enough defensively to make that thing happen, right? Between Ant and McDaniels and Rudy. Yeah, and Nas Reed. I Ant and McDaniels and Rudy. Yeah, and Nas Reed. Like, I think Ant McDaniels and Rudy, when Ant is locked in on defense, that is a core three of defenders that you can get some nice things going for yourself.

Yeah. To sort of cover your deficiencies at the one and the four. And offensively, I just think Dame and Ant can carry an offense, a playoff offense. It's my belief that they could elevate that to competency in the playoffs. And so no matter who was around it. And so, yeah, I would be very excited about that, but I don't think Portland's interested

in, in doing that. Cause you know, all the people that want to kill Dame Lillard, um, they don't want to win. They're not interested in having a good team anymore. They're trying to build for the future with these young guys. I don't think they want to bring in an all-star, obvious all-star type of player who's going to demand touches, demand possessions. I don't think they want to do that. My favorite destination is Minnesota. The most logical trade to me is Toronto.

The wildcard trade is Philly, Brooklyn as a threesome. And then Miami, if they ended up getting Dame at this point, I think that would just be because all of these trades, there was nothing, there's no substance to them whatsoever and miami was the only offer which is very possible by the way it's it's it's i it's what i think is happening um it's been months everybody's had a chance like dame lillard is a known quantity nobody's like he's had the best year of his life just last year nobody is um you know confused about what it would mean to bring dane lillard into their building nobody has come in with a better offer yet it just feels inevitable it feels like a new a newish gm uh you know who got mad at all the miami stuff yeah he got trying to save face he's a definitely portland media rallying all them fans up thinking they about to get, you know, the next Michael Jordan in this trade.

And so he's painted himself in a corner where it's like, oh, if I do a logical deal, he's told everybody that he was going to get this crazy haul for Dame Lillard. I think that's what we're watching right now. That's what the delay is. And there's no way he wants to bring Dame to training camp to bust his rookie's ass up and down the court and be obviously way better than the dude and be

answering questions every day because that's another thing dame's gonna show up to work on time and ready to kill people and so like i don't think the gm wants that either so it just feels like the miami is what's going to inevitably need to happen. Unless Messiah says, fuck it. That would be nice. So many people have mentioned this to me in the league with the Dame thing. And then we're going $16.545 million in 2026. It's three years from now. $63.228 million in 2026, 27. And people over and over again, all summer have told me, you don't understand how scary it is to look at those two numbers when you put them on a whiteboard with everything you want to do, with how much you have to spend, with what the luxury tax is,

when you look at his age, and he's going to be 37 in his $63 million a year. And it's like, this is just scary. Like you really have to not give a shit about money at all. That's why the Celtics, they're like, oh, Tatum has been courting Dame. There's no fucking chance they're going to get Dame lowered. Tatum's going to be making like $80 million a year in 2027.

There's no fucking way. You can't have him. It's not going to happen. And like all the people that just think these way better offers are supposed to be rolling down the hill. It's just this, you just laid it out, Bill, why people haven't just been leaping at this. It's the age, it's his size and position.

Like Dame is a decent size for his position, but he's a smaller player. You know, people tend to be scared that that thing doesn't age out as well. If you're going to be making this trade, it's because you think in the next two years, you're knocking on the door of an NBA championship. Otherwise, what would be the point of doing this?

Well, somehow we got 40 minutes out of a Dame trade in the end of September. I don't know. It's the content horse that keeps on giving. Big Wads, we can hear in the Ringer NBA show and a whole bunch of other places. Good to see you as always. Always, brother. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer.

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Available at your local Canadian tire. Enrollment required. Keep your receipts. Other conditions apply. See Pennzoil.ca slash warranty for full details. All right, Michael Lombardi is here. We grabbed him. He's been promoting his new book. There's a piece in the new book

that I'm so excited to talk about with you, but how's the book promotion going? I think it's going good. I don't know how you measure this stuff. You kind of did a lot of interviews, so it's good. It seems to be. I love, I got one review where

a guy said, I can't read this book. He doesn't have Deacon Jones in the top 100 players. Deacon's number 10. So obviously he didn't read the book. So, you know, I love those things, but I mean, it's been fine. I think it's, it's fun. It stirs conversation, you know, and you know, from writing books, you, you, you, you know, to get people to buy books today is not an easy chore. There's not a lot of book buyers out there. People like to kind of have it in a condensed form. So I think it's been going well. I'm really happy with it.

I can't complain. That's good. When you were on the last time, I forgot to bring this up with you. And now I have a reason to bring it up. You had this whole thing in your book that I feel like I remember everything in sports that's happened since the seventies. And even I had forgotten this about the Rams defense in the mid seventies. Absolutely was destroying everybody for five straight years. And you know, it comes and goes. They never really have their moment. By that time they finally get to the the Super Bowl. It's with Vince Ferragamo, but they're not really the same team defensively.

We see this happen in football sometimes where these teams will have these runs and then it's just for whatever reason, they never can get over the hump and that's it. This Browns defense, which you were calling out before the year. You were saying like, watch Jim Schwartz. He's got a lot of toys. This is going to be really interesting. They have been so dominant in these three games that I'm starting to wonder, everyone's talking about

Miami this week and we're going to talk about them in a second. You wrote about them for Vista today. Everyone's talking about Miami. Oh my God, historic offense.

A historic defense is more sustainable in December and January. And I guess my first question is, are we focused enough on the Browns right now? I don't think we are. So let's go back. So Chubb gets injured, right? And everybody mails the season in on poor Chubb.

Well, then they play Tennessee and that line was three and a half. It was a really stupid line. Tennessee can't move the ball against Ocean City High School. I mean, they're not a good offense. I know they beat the Chargers, but that's the Chargers. And so they had to throw the ball. And this was a coming out game, I think, for Watson. He threw the ball effectively. But this defense, they could have won the game 12-9. They could have won the game 12-3. They're really that good. When you study Schwartz's career, you've never, when he plays the wide nine, you've never been able to run the ball on him because he's really good at teaching run fits. You know, everybody, you hear this rhetoric, Bill. Oh, they're in a

nine man, they're in an eight man front. Okay, that's great. But sometimes if you're, if you're on the, not on the same level of the eight man front, you're really not in an eight man front. You know, your levels are distorted. Everything gets kind of, it's like a zone. If you're not playing it correctly, it gets messed up. So his run fits are really good. And you can't run bootlegs or naked on him because his ends are too wide. So you take away a whole element of some easy throws for a quarterback and they run to the football. And then when they get into a passing situation, now he's taking Garrett and moving them all over the place. And he says, okay,

who's your worst lineman? Okay. I got that. Here comes Garrett. Now you block them one-on-one. The other misconception about football is it's like basketball. If you have a bad line and Tennessee doesn't have a good line, don't rush three and don't rush four because somebody can double team

somebody on three. But if you have a shitty line, rush five because that means somebody has to block one-on-one all the time. And that's what Schwartz did. And then it gets Garrett. I mean, he had him on Ted Karras. I love Ted Karras. We drafted him in New England. Great kid, tough guy.

But one-on-one with Miles Garrett, you know, driving to the lane, that's going to be two points every time. And that's what he did. So this defense is good enough to carry him. They're fast. They're athletic. All Watson has to do is not screw it up. So I was looking at the 2000 Ravens, which I think is the benchmark team for can you just win with a great defense by not making mistakes. They scored 333 points and gave up 165 in a 16-game season.

In the playoffs, they only allowed 23 points in four games. So they allowed 188 points total in 20 games. They had seven games of nine points or less. They had four games that year of nine first downs or less. Cleveland has three games of nine first downs or less already. Nobody's gotten a 10 first downs of them. And you can go through and you could say, all right, week one, Burroughs hurt, right? Bad spot for Burroughs. Nobody realizes Cleveland's team is that good. Week two, Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh scored two touchdowns with their offense, but Pickett, he's still figuring it out. They can't run the ball. Najee Harris looks like Trent Richardson right before he traded him. All right, that makes sense.

Then Tennessee, Tannehill, their line stinks. So they haven't really... So Lamar will be the first real test, but I'm looking at that game and I'm going, well, Baltimore is as banged up on their offensive line as anybody. And they have the speed to stay with Lamar, especially if he tries to move around

the pocket. Like to me, this feels like a terrible matchup for Baltimore. You agree? I agree completely. Especially if Lindstrom and Stanley are still out and you know, you got Schwartz is going to attack. One thing Schwartz is always very good at doing is attacking the protection. So not only does he know how to get the matchups, he knows how to attack the protections on third down. Then it becomes a really complicated game and he gets free runners. Yeah. This will be a hard one because, you know,

now they won't have Gus Edwards for the running back. He's in concussion protocol. And what we've learned about concussion protocol this year with this five step rule that they have is you go with it. You're not coming out for at least another week. You're good. You're out of week. You're not coming out like in three days.

You know, we like that, right? I like the way You're going out a week. You're not coming out like in three days. We like that, right? I like the way they're doing it this year. I think it's the right way to do it. I think it solves the coach's problem from guessing. You don't have to. The coach now no longer. I have the guy or not have the guy. He doesn't practice all week. So it eliminates

all that crap. One thing about coaching for a gate, once you know you don't have the guy, you can work around it. It's when you think you have the guy, you can't work around it. That's the problem. So I don't have a problem with it at all. And I think what we see there, Edwards in concussion, they don't have a, you know, is Lamar going to be the guy? It's going to be hard to get on the edge. I think with, I don't know if they'll get Newsom back their corner, but look, Martin Emerson Jr. is a really good corner. Ward's an outstanding

corner. They've got talent on all levels on this Cleveland Brown defense. They really are. And that grass in Cleveland is thick. It's going to be a slower track and it helps the Brownies. And the fans like the team and they have a good home field advantage if the fans like the team they're only favored by two and a half which I was surprised by what you said about Watson I thought it was three and a half really it's two and a half now it's down to two and a half

down to two and a half what you said about Watson I felt the same way and I couldn't tell you know once you that game was over almost immediately. Once it was 13-3, it was like, that's it. Tennessee can't do anything. They can't run the ball. They're not going to be able to throw it. This is a wrap. But he did gain confidence. And there's still, he still has that physicality to him

when he's moving around and guys are bouncing off him. And, you know, this doesn't look like a, you know, the stereotypical, like, oh, we traded for this older QB. He's 34 now. He could still like, he's conceivably physically in his prime, but that was the first time I felt like, oh, that kind of looked like Deshaun. was confident he was moving around i thought he really was back now you know i wrote about him this week i think he misses will fuller i think he he needs a down the field guy that makes plays remember when he was good with will fuller oh yeah will fuller bailed him out a lot of times and maybe cooper can be that guy but i think the pressure being on them they hey has to throw the ball more effectively yeah i mean look they didn't run ball. You couldn't run the ball against the Titans. I mean, that was the one thing. People say, well, they don't have Chubb.

How are they going to beat the Titans? Well, they weren't running the ball with Chubb anyway. The Titans are hard to run the ball on. You've got to throw it on the Titans, and you've got to prove that, and he did, so that's a huge step. And Baltimore, look, I mean, I went Minshew at like 44. I mean, it was 1,000 paper cuts, but they were really good. They had 22 third downs in that game in Indianapolis.

So they didn't really make an explosive play, but they made a lot. They got a lot of first down. They were in third down quite a bit, which tells you they were holding on to the ball. So if the 2000 Ravens is kind of your North Star for this team. Do you coach it differently if you're Stefanski? Do you become way less aggressive once you have a lead? Are you just doing everything safe? What do you do?

I think if you're Stefanski, you know that unless we turn this thing over, first of all, on Monday, today's Tuesday, right? You sit in your office and you're playing a team. Like, let's say you're playing a team, but Cleveland's playing Baltimore. You say, how many points do you think it's going to take to win the game? And, you know, let's say if we score 24, we can beat Baltimore. Well, then you've got to manage the game because they're going to have a hard time scoring 24. That's what makes the 49ers so good think about this nobody talks about this at all Wisniewski the punter for the 49ers is the best inside the punter kicker in the league by far he gets he's unbelievable so they always move

the ball they get it to midfield they get it to their own maybe their own 40 okay they punt now you have the ball first and 10 at your own eight. Against that defense, it's hard to go 12 plays down the field and score. It's hard. You're going to screw it up somewhere along the way. And if you do it once, God bless, can you do it three times for 21 points? No chance. You're not doing a three. I don't care how good you are. And that's the way the Browns have to play. Play field position, make them go on a long way. They're not throwing the ball over our head. They don't have enough time. And you can win a lot of games. It's a lot like the difference between professional tennis and amateur tennis. The

amateur hits the ball into the net. The pro hits shots that the other guy can't return. That's the way you have to play. You're not playing conservative. You're playing a professional game. You're just letting them screw it up. And that's what I think the Browns should do. And they can do enough with Watson throwing the ball. They have Moore as a weapon. They've got Cooper and Joku. The tight end is a good player. And this offensive line is good too now. They're not bad in the offensive line. I know they lost Conklin, but Jones stepped in and played well for them. So, yeah, to me, I thought they could win the North this summer. And even though without Chubb, I think if they could make a trade for another runner, I would do that.

But they're really good. I had them as a playoff team too. The more I watch, and I do feel like the AFC is wide open and we're going to talk about Miami in a little bit, but we've seen these great offense, September, October teams. And then as the season goes on, it doesn't look as great. Casey, I've heard you talk about, uh, how, how much you've liked Casey's defense feel the same way on this end. Um, I think that's been a real surprise, like how active and physical they are. So if I'm looking at who I like in the AFC,

I think Cleveland's in the mix for me. I want to see from Buffalo this week how good they look against Miami. I think Buffalo's defense has been a little better than I thought. KC, never going to rule them out. Cleveland, maybe Pittsburgh, if they can figure out how to rule them out. Cleveland, maybe Pittsburgh, if they can figure out how to move the ball,

how to throw it deeper than just like these, whatever the hell they're doing on offense right now. Nobody in the AFC South, right, that you would have? And then maybe Baltimore. I can't figure out Jacksonville. Here's what about Buffalo. That's a 16-0 game in the fourth quarter against Washington. And then Robinson fumbles.

And then they break their back. And then it becomes a 30-0 game. I mean, Buffalo's defense, I don't know, like in the matchup this week or even against a good – is there safeties? Are they fast enough in the back end? And if you can block them, like they got nine sacks against Washington. Well, Washington's trying to throw the ball against them, and that's what they want you to do.

They want to play nickel. That's what they're in. They're in a nickel defense the whole game. They've got their kid, Bernard, the second-year kid from Baylor, and they got Milano. Those two guys, if you saw them walking down the street, you'd think they played free safety in the NFL. You know, you don't think they're linebackers.

You say, there's no way that guy's a linebacker, and yet they are. Who would you, if you had to do your top three defenses, what would you say one, two, three right now for you? Cleveland, San Francisco, or one, two? I think Cleveland, San Francisco and Kansas City. I mean, Kansas City holds Detroit to 14 points, you know, and without Chris Jones. And they go down there and they play Jacksonville and hold them to nine.

I'm not sitting there saying Jacksonville, but Jacksonville's got some weapons. They should be better than they are. And then, you know, and last week, I mean, it was too easy for him against the Bears. So I would probably say, you know, those three are the best by far. I mean, San Francisco, again, it's not that you can't move the ball. The Rams moved the ball. You just can't move the ball consistently on like, and then what happens to the Rams is what happened last night. They lose our Johnson, the left tackle left tackle, and the game, all this shit falls apart for them. They have no margin for error. As good as Stafford looks, as soon as he lost the left tackle, he looked like crap again.

And Dallas' defense would have been in there, but we're crossing them off after that Arizona game. I'm sorry, guys. You're out. You give up seven yards to carry. That's kind of hard to do. It's hard to stay in there. And I think without Diggs, it's hard to. Look, you the hardest thing with dallas you got to block them yeah like dallas's back end you can attack the front is where the real issues come in especially

with a micah i mean you got to block him if you don't then uh you know obviously he's going to take the game over but you got to be then you got to match the physicality too that's the other thing about the brownies. People don't realize the Browns are physical. This isn't just the Buffaloes and undersized defense that moves around. Even Ed Oliver's not a big man. This Browns team's big. I said to Sal

on Sunday night, they've passed every eye test piece, too, where there's a swagger to them that really reminds me of the 2000 Ravens. They make plays and the guy jumps up and does a little whirly bird motion or three guys come over

and headbutt them. They know they're good. This is not a fluke thing. I can't wait to see them play an awesome offense. I don't know. They know they're good and they know the coach is good too, Bill. They're not blowing coverages. Last year, the Jets, they had a 13-point lead with under two minutes to go,

and they lose the game. How do you do that against Joe Flacco? That's why coaching matters so much in the NFL. If you get a really good rock star coach like Schwartz, it's the perfect matchup. He's got Miles Garrett. They get in Smith. They've got Tomlinson inside. like Schwartz for the, and it's the perfect matchup. He had, he's got Miles Garrett, you know, they,

they get in Smith, you know, they've got Tomlinson inside. I mean, they're good. So Garrett has, do you think he has a chance to grab the championship belt this year from who's you have Chris Jones last year?

He took it from Donald. Chris Jones was last year. I mean, who's going to win the belt this year? Parsons is in there. Parsons. Yeah. I mean,

it's either Parsons or Garrett. You know, T.J. Watt's still really good, too. I mean, my Lord. You know, they're hard to block, too. Now, you know, you're right. Offensively, I don't quite know what they're into, but they're better. They're tough to play in

Pittsburgh because he's so hard to block. Like, they played regular base against the Raiders and 11 personnel, and they just dared the Raiders to say, okay, because they weren't going to let the Raiders run the ball. They were saying, we're not letting Josh Jacobs get going, and they did it. Steelers might need the mid-2010s Flacco offense of just every seven plays, just throw 40 yards downfield. Just,

it's either going to be a pass interference, Pickens will make a play or it'll be incomplete. Just, just play the odds. Can you give the listeners a little seventies Rams history lesson from the book? Cause he, the way you wrote about that team and talked about them, I was like, he's right. Why doesn't anybody ever talk about this team? Well, I mean, it started with the premise of we're going to win the defensive front. And they've got Deacon Jones. Well, he was pretty much done.

They got Merlin Olsen inside a defensive tackle, which was one of the best defense. People think of Little House on the Prairie and him being in the booth, but this was a treadable player, right? Father Murphy. I mean, father Murphy, you know,

and then they got Jack Youngblood, who I think is one of the most underrated. I put him in my top 100 players. Yeah. You know? And so they were just, I mean, they had this ability to take over the game and this is when you could head

slap. And this is when you could do a lot of things to the opposing quarterback. And I know they had Ray Malabasi as the coach after Allen left but George kind of started this a little bit after he got fired in Washington he kind of started this and they were really good and you know all through the 60s and the 70s I mean they were they just took over games and and that to me when you have a nickname with your team, with your defensive front, you've got a good team.

The fearsome foursome, the purple people eaters, right? The steel curtain. When you start with nicknames for your defensive front, to me, that should be in your draft room. Like, we have to come up with it. We have to draft a nickname team. Because if we have those four guys up front, we're going to be like, you can't believe it.

It's going to be so good. And so... Well, shit, the Eagles might have that, potentially. After watching Baby Rhino last night run amok. I mean, yeah. I heard all the Bears fans were complaining that they traded down for him.

I mean, look, everybody's concerned about the off-the the field stuff, but the kid was, you know, he was always, he was always about, he liked football. And if you like football, I mean, they're like Coy Bacon. Coy Bacon was one of the guys that like, no one talks about how good Coy Bacon was. And Merlin's brother, Phil was on the team too.

And everybody remembers Freddie Dreyer. I mean, here's the thing that's so great about that team. Nobody knows who the corners were. Right. Nobody knows who the corners were. Everybody talks about, oh, we've got to have a great corner. No. When you can rush.

I mean, football's a real simple game. If you count the three Mississippi, no one gets open. If you count the five Mississippi, people get open. So if you build a defensive line that reacts to three Mississippi, it's a problem. And that's where they're really good. They were really good. So they had, from that five-year stretch, they were 190 points allowed or less for five straight years. They went 12-2, 10-4, 12-2, 10-3-1, and 10-4. The 76 Rams, or I'm sorry, the 75 Rams gave up 135 points for the whole season in his 14-game season. It was less than 10 points a game.

And it was weird that they belatedly get there after the owner dies, leaves the team to his wife, Georgia, who I think became the inspiration for First and Ten, right? That HBO series, the widow inherits the team. And they make the Superbowl with Vince Ferragamo, who's this handsome Italian guy. So all the Italians or my whole family was in a Vince Ferragamo. It's like, oh my God, one of us might win the Superbowl. He was the Jimmy G before Jimmy G. He really was. He was the prototype. And they just couldn't make it last. And what makes it even better

is in the 75 draft, Mike Fanning was their first round pick. They drafted a defense alignment, which is the most important. Like when you build strength, you build strength on strength. Yeah. Right. And so that's to me where you kind of like everybody oh, we got to get a receiver. We got to get...

No. When you're really good up front, you got Cody Jones, you got Al Cowlings. They had Al Cowlings. Wasn't he the driver of the OJ game? He was. This is AC. I got OJ in the car.

All right, we're going to take a break and then we're going to talk about the Dolphins. We're supported by NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube and YouTube TV. Our best friends for the NFL football season. If you're a displaced fan, NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube and YouTube TV, our best friends for the NFL football season. If you're a displaced fan, NFL Sunday Ticket, I mean, come on, it's a must have. Now that it's on YouTube and YouTube TV, it's easier than ever to keep up with all your favorite teams on Sunday afternoons since you can watch four preset games all at once on multi-view.

And by the way, you have more agency in this than you might think. If you click on the individual games, a little thing will pop up on the right and it'll say, do you want to just go to this live or do you want to watch it on multi-view? And if you click the multi-view thing, all of these options will come up

and that game will be featured with all these different ones. It's amazing. I don't know if you know this, but YouTube has now made me their unofficial CMO, their chief multi-view officer. I'm helping them put together the recommended multi-view for NFL Sunday tickets. So you can do your own thing or listen to me because I put a lot of thought into this. My favorite matchups of the week. We'll go with the early games.

We got Cincinnati, Tennessee, which I think is interesting for a bunch of reasons. We got Cincinnati-Tennessee, which I think is interesting for a bunch of reasons. We're going to find out if Tennessee's any good, I think, this week. And we're also, the Joe Burrow, is his calf okay or not, is kind of compelling. Every play, it looks like he's about to either look like

Joe Burrow from last year or look like the guy who's been injured all year. I'm interested in that game. I'm really interested in Cleveland-Baltimore because as we talked about with Mike Lombardi on today's podcast, Cleveland's D might be historically unbelievable. So what's Lamar going to look like against it? That's a must watch. Pittsburgh-Houston, I have a lot of agency with the Steelers this year for a variety of reasons, but I want to see C.J. Stroud against a good

defense. What happens? Is C.J. Stroud for real? That's a good game. That's a possible upset too. And then last but not least, Miami versus Buffalo is the best game of the year. And we're going to find out once and for all, is Miami one of the best offenses of all time? Can they play from behind?

What is it like if they're down four in the third quarter and you can start blitzing them because you know they're not going to run as much? We're just going to learn some lessons about a really great offense this week. So thanks to NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube and YouTube TV for sponsoring this segment. Hopefully you like my picks. It's truly the best place to keep up with all your favorite teams out of market Sunday afternoon games. Sign up right now on youtube.com slash BS. Mike McDaniel, he had this quote and I wrote it down because I wanted to read it to you

because it was the most Lombardi-ish quote I've read in a while. This was his philosophy on offense. We are going to do the opposite of what everyone else is doing. That's the only way to innovate. Break the rules of what previous coaches have taught. If you're following the rules, the defense has the advantage. That's like porn for you.

It's unbelievable, right? That's really good. I did not hear that quote. I did not hear that quote, but that's what he's doing. I think he's really quirky. And you know, for me, I want a head coach who's going to run the whole team, but I give him really credit for what he's doing. Like I just, I watched all three games. First of all, let's talk about the Denver game. Like that was embarrassing. Like when your players give that

little effort, there's something going on in your locker room. Like there's something going on. Like not only was it bad, there was no effort, bad tackling. I mean, it was, you know, you can blame him for running it up. They have to stop you at some point, right? Aren't they supposed to stop you? So, but what I think McDaniels has done is he's figured out I can't let people get into the pocket on Tua because if Tua can step up if nobody if he can't step up we're dead and so he's got

this really outside zone it almost looks like he's running a wide receiver you know like you know how they hand the ball off to the wide receiver sweep how how they take it wide? It's like he's running a wide receiver sweep to the running back, so he stretches the defense. So the defense reacts horizontally, and the pocket ends up being closed because everybody's running outside. And he's got this huge lane to throw the ball in. And then he can throw it, and Tua's getting the ball out of his hands, the quickest guy in the league.

The routes aren't that long. He's accurate. Look, I think if Brock Purdy played in Miami, he would have the same numbers as Tua has. I mean, I'm not dismissing Tua. Don't get me wrong. I mean, but that receiver makes everything crazy. But Tua's deadly accurate.

The ball's coming out quick. And the scheme, he makes you defend horizontally and he keeps the pocket clean so two can throw it up inside and he really he hasn't thrown a lot of deep balls like he if he throws a deep ball it's off the five step he's getting it out of his hand really quick but they're so good last year he averaged 29 23 rushes a game this year he's up to 31 so he's running toss he's running all different things and this this motion where he's taking the receiver and motioning them straight out causes width to

the defense it forces because if the receiver would have lined up outside the corners out there right so they there's already there's set spacing but when he sprints out that way it's unset and so it clear it evens the middle out it's hard to get a read on it's hard to defend But when he sprints out that way, it's unset. And so it evens the middle out. It's hard to get a read on. It's hard to defend. And then he RPOs it. So now he fakes that handoff to the outside receiver, and everybody thinks he gave it to him.

And now he's got this huge middle of the field to throw the ball. And where does Tua throw the ball the best? In the middle of the field. So speed and motion. Yeah. That's like his philosophy. So he goes and gets Tyreek, who is your favorite receiver in the league. Oh, yeah.

Deception is the other one. How is anybody could argue with that? Like, how is he not the MVP of the league? Like, how can you take him off that team and you basically neutralize everything that he's trying to do with his offense because now nobody's scared i mean you at halftime you got the defense coordinators checking his pants for shitting his pants he's so scared of the guy you know i mean like you what are we doing with two what are we gonna do with two what are we gonna do with hill how are

we gonna play him i mean can you imagine they they like the first touchdown they throw the ball in the middle of the field. They blow the coverage. He spins around. The corner has an angle on him. The guy has an angle. He's a professional football player. There's an angle on him, and he outruns the angle.

I understand why you like it. You know who wasn't scared of him? My guy, Christian Gonzalez. He hung in there. The steal in the 2023 draft. No, he went toe to toe with them. So speed, but then the motion. My son's playing football and they've played two teams in the last two years when he's been on defense where it's just teams that are always, guys are just moving around and it's so chaotic. And especially at the high school level where people barely know how to do anything and somebody is cutting this way and he's cutting back and he's coming around

the other way. And you just see how it discombobulates the defense. The Dolphins, I think the number was like 59% of the plays that they ran in the Denver game, somebody was in motion. Why don't teams do motion more? I watched the Patriots, just an ongoing eyesore offensively. You just want to punch yourself in the face as you watch it. And I'm always like, why aren't guys moving around? Why isn't it hard to figure out what we're doing? Why is everything so stationary? So do you feel like he stumbled on something that people are going to just start copying liberally now with the motion? I mean, everybody's used motion. Like Al Davis used to complain about Gruden because he would motion from here to there. We did all that to throw for four yards. He would get all pissed off. Like, what are we doing? We do all that for four yards.

Well, this guy's throwing it up the field. And he's motioning. And the guys he's motioning because of the jet sweep, because of the way he's doing it, you're scared to death. People use motion to determine zone man. A lot of people use motion to shift the run force. If I motion from here to there, the run force has to change. If I motion, I'm trying to create confusion. I mean, why motion started? I don't know if we talked about this the last time, but the reason why motion came in, I wrote about this in the book, the reason why motion came into pro football was because Bob Trumpy, the former announcer, lined up on the left side of the formation. And the quarterback said, no, no, Bob, you're over here to the right. And so he moved over to the right. And Bill Walsh noticed that three people

were moving around on defense. And he's like, we should put that in again. Let's do what somebody else isn't doing. Right. And there it is. And that's how, why motion came into play. So yeah, I think to me, it's harder. You have to have a reason for motioning. Like it's just not the motion of motion, but you got to have a reason. And he has a really good reason because what he's trying to do is he's trying to stretch you horizontally he's luring you into thinking he's stretching you vertically but he's stretching you this way horizontally which is creating tremendous space for the quarterback because his line sucks like if he played a regular offense his line wouldn't be able to hold up especially inside i mean they got isaiah win over there at left guard oh my, my God. He's been starting left guard.

I mean, they put Armstead in the left tackle, and it didn't really matter whether it was Armstead or Lamb. So he hides the line by doing all this, and he's done a great job with it. He really has. I mean, he got hired to be a run game guru, and he didn't run the ball for a year, and now he is. And he's got two fast running backs. Yeah. I remember Reed used to run this play with Tyreek that I always thought was

the scariest play I've ever seen. It would be like third and two, third and one, fourth and two, when Hill would be lined up and then he would go in motion and it was like quick motion. It'd be like a really hard slant for like three yards but he would have speed and I never saw anyone defend it. And now McDaniel seems to have like 40 different versions of like these quick motion Tyreek things where all of a sudden he's moving and then now he's moving the other way.

I just think if I was a defensive coordinator, I just wouldn't know what to do, especially because they can run the ball. So even with their shit offensive line, they're still able to run the ball because they can run the ball. So even with their shit offensive line, they're still able to run the ball because everybody else is moving around. Because they created horizontal space. That's what the Eagles did last night.

Did you see some of those lanes those backs had to run through? When you play Miami, you have to set the edge outside. And if you can't do that, like they did against Denver, they got around the corner. I mean, they ran toss around the corner. It was embarrassing how easy it looked. It was like your son was playing a high school team. I mean, that's how easy it was. The 99 Rams, which is the team that, and they're always a go-to offensive people. We've had a lot of good offenses, right? Like the 07 Pats, the 2018

Chiefs were awesome. The Mannings Denver team, when they had like 626 points, there's been good offenses. I think what made the Rams so much fun in the moment was the speed. And Falk was the guy for that team, like Tyreek is for Miami. Falk was such a nightmare. And that was the year he had the thousand thousand for rushing receiving. But, you know, everything, everything came from the fact that he was just a nightmare and nobody knew what he was going to do play to play. But then they also had, they Bruce, they had Torrey Holt, they had Oz Akeem who was terrifying. He could just run straight lines really fast. And they just put so much pressure on him with the speed. That's the only great offense team that's won a Super Bowl.

Like when you're talking about like the historically great points, points per game, all that shit. And the Rams are the one that did it because they're up to get home field. Their offense kind of died a little bit the last two games, but it didn't matter. They pulled it up. I was still looking at Miami. Like, you know, if they can keep Tua healthy, there is a roadmap.

Four of their last five are at home. So the whole, wait until it gets cold weather. It's like, well, it's not really going to bother them. No, I mean, they're going to Buffalo this weekend. I mean, if you're in Buffalo, you're pissed off. They're coming up here now. I mean, we should be going down there. You want to play them in the cold.

Do you remember the game two years ago when it rained in Tennessee and Tua barely could throw the ball? It was like... I'm not anti-Tua. Philly in week seven, too. That's going to be third week October. The weather will be fine.

I think that your point is well taken, though. I think they're going to be like, you know, third week, October, the weather will be fine. I think that your point is well taken though. I think they're going to go into a bus and you're assuming Vic Fangio gets some better on defense, which he has to, but they don't look good enough on defense. Even Denver was moving the ball on them. They're just what they're like Philly of last year. Philly got so far ahead of people early, you know, that it didn't matter whether you could,

that this defensive front's not as good as Philly's. I mean, they gave up a one for Bradley Chubb. You barely feel him on the field. Garwinkle makes more plays, you know, than he does. And the secondary, I mean, Xavier Howard's had four passers. They had three in one game, you know, so you can go after him and they'll get Ramsey back, which will help. But Vic does such a good job defensively that it's hard, but they're going to run into a buzzsaw. I don't know if they

can keep this up because look, Belichick held the 24 points. They missed some opportunities to score too. Yeah. And you made the key point. Denver was so bad in that game that I almost, like I'm looking at this Miami-Buffalo line and Buffalo's two and a half over Miami and everybody loves Miami. This is the classic. They've gotten smoke blowing up their butts all week. Everybody's talking about their amazing offense. There's a little nobody believes in us potential with Buffalo. It's Buffalo, I think, at home, you know, when that crowd's going to be fired up.

And offensive line, shaky. Defense feels like you could throw on them. And this feels like a nice spot for Buffalo. If Miami wins this game, I think that now I'm like, okay, you guys got me. I'm more confident in Cleveland, though, long term. I think they're a safer bet. It's weird to say, but I just think that defense is going to travel in December and January. Well, you know, defense wins. I mean, that's it. I mean, we ran into a bus.

So we were one of the best offenses in football in 2000 and shoot, we ran into the Ravens and you know, they took us out of it. We were one of the best offenses in football in 2002 and we played Tampa and they took us out of it. So the longer that – see, right now what McDaniels has done is shown people a different look that they haven't seen from the summer, and now people have to get used to it. And I think, obviously, McDermott's now – he's a good defense coach. So he's helped Tyreek Hill in the last three games 18 catches for 170 yards.

So he's played them pretty well. He hasn't had a blowout game. He hasn't done that. So he'll know how to play them. But, like, last week, what worries you, when they played man-to-man a little bit against Washington, Sam Howe completed a deep pass on Samuels. Like, they can't play this a man-to-man game.

They've got to play quarter coverage. They've got to play like Belichick had those three guys in the middle of the field, almost like a three cloud, and they got to rally to the run. They're hard, especially if your safeties don't tackle well. I think this is a real challenge for Buffalo because their safeties are older, they're mature, they're very experienced, they'll make great calls, but they're going to have some issues with put speed out there because this team's really fast. Well, this happens every year in September. We get super excited about a team because the quarterback looks great or the offense is amazing.

And then all of a sudden, November, December, some bad weather, some injuries, and then all of a sudden that team goes away. And I was on that train of thought too, Bill, but here's the problem. Nobody's hit Tua. He's been sacked once. He's only had three passes batted down all year in three games. I mean, Baker Mayfield gets that, the first pass of his career this year

with Tampa was batted down. I mean, he only has three passes batted down. He's so accurate. And like I said, the pocket's so clean, it's hard for him not to complete passes. He has really the degree of difficulty on some of his throws. Now, his accuracy is pinpoint, so I'm not disputing that. But the guys are open.

The degree of difficulty, they're not hard. You don't sit there and say, oh, my God, how do you fit that in that window? Like, these windows are wide. Well, we're going to know on Sunday. What Sopranos character is Mac Jones? You know, I think he's Ralphie. I think he's Ralphie. A little complainer, a little bit of a whiner, dresses nice, you know,

complains, you know, nothing's really ever good enough, wants to make more money, you know, all that. I think so. Look, at some point. Could Ralphie make a third down throw? Cause I can't remember. I don't know. Did he make more third down throws than back? That would be the only thing that would stop me. Ralphie's an earner.

Like Matt's not earning. Like, I mean, I almost went through the roof when he threw the fade over to Douglas on third and three. I almost went. Well, hold on. Which, which terrible third down pass that you're talking about? Let me, let me go through my notes. When the game was over and they, all they had to do was get one first down and he throws that switch route over here.

And he, I think it was, I think it was the Douglas and it was so, maybe it was the Smith Schuster, but then the one over here to Smith Schuster by there, by the jet bench on the next, like at some point, you, you know, for all the people, like, I've been critical of Mac and people like, oh, you know, like, tell me. I mean, he made some good throws in that game. Don't get me wrong. He made some really good throws in that game. However, when it was crunch time and we needed a throw,

he didn't make one. That's where I'm having trouble with him. Like, at some point, Mac, you've got to make a throw to win a game or to put a game away. And it's not even that he doesn't make the throw. The throws end up with the receiver falling backwards sprawled or

it's out of bounds. I don't know if you know this, Thap, but he's had 36 starts now and he has one fourth quarter comeback, which is impossible. That's almost two and a half seasons. and he has one fourth quarter comeback, which is impossible. Like that's two, that's almost two and a half seasons.

So I don't, I don't see it. I get in arguments with my Pat fans, friends about it. And we, you know, I have some friends that are like, look,

he has that offensive line. Who are his receivers? None of his receivers can get open. It's like, that's cool. But I just don't see him making the throws ever. I mean, CJ Stroud threw for 280 last week. He had all his backup offensive linemen in the game.

And Robert Woods was his leading receiver. See, that's the Justin Fields defense. All he needs is better players around him. No, great quarterbacks make everybody else better. Great quarterbacks make it. It's like a great point guard. Everybody else is better. I mean, look, Mack does, he did,

I think he's improved from this year to last, from last year to this year. And he made some really good throws in that jet game in bad weather. But when the game was on the line, the decision to throw that nine, that had no chance to get completed, to me, I was screaming through my chair.

The other thing that made me scream was when Miles Bryant didn't fair catch the punt off the safety. What are we doing? We got to fair catch that. Sometimes I just think crunch time, you can't make a bad decision.

Well, that's been the frustrating piece of these Belichick teams the last couple years it's just like weird sloppy nailing down yeah not nailing down the punctuation of the game basically and little things that just didn't used to happen so I don't don't know the reasons for that I to me Mac is like is he Andy Dalton someday like maybe I just don't see a ceiling for him. And I don't see a world where he's like the quarterback on like a 13 and four team or a 12 and five team.

I just don't think he's good enough. Last week, the line played the best they've had. They finally got their line together. So maybe he can start to go and get better. Like I said, he made a couple of really good throws in that game. But to me, quarterbacks get paid to win in the final

five minutes of every game. That's where you judge the quarter. Can he win the final five minutes? What's your number for quarterback starts before,

if we don't know by then? So you think, so Max had 36. Yeah, we definitely, like he hasn't proven he can come from behind. Now he's proven

he can play and he's won games, but he hasn't had that ability when I'm more behind to come back. Like, like I'm done with talking about fields. The,

the, you know, those guys on the, those guys on the worldwide leader, they can keep talking about, I'm done talking about fields. I'm done talking about Zach. Well,

so like there's no more, there's no more, like if, if they're stupid enough to keep playing them, that's your own fault. Like if you're stupid enough to keep coming up with excuses why the guy should be, then we're wasting our time. You've had enough games to show who you are.

Brock Purdy only started 10 games. He looks fine. Lamar Jackson took his team to the playoffs as a rookie. He looked fine. You don't need this, oh, we need more time. More time means you're just trying to buy. You're wasting time. Trubisky need more time. More time means you're just trying to buy, you're wasting time. Trubisky needs more time.

Just needs like three more starts. He needs one more look. How bad must he be? I mean, the way Pickett looks, how bad must he be, right? Well, how about Wentz? I mean, he can't get a start either. So you have two sons working on the Raiders right now. Is it more nerve wracking to watch a team that your sons work for,

work for, or when you were, when you were running a team, when you were watching that team? This is way worse. This is way worse because I'm in the media and I, you know, and you know,

and you like, like I try to be as honest as I could. Like I had a real issue when it was, when he didn't kick the field goal in the beginning of the fourth quarter. That was my bigger issue. And then the defense is so bad that he's playing, he kicks the field goal to play for that he's going to get the ball back when you and I both know those chances are not good. So that's painful. It's hard to watch it when your kids are in it. I mean, you know, it's just hard. You feel bad for them. I don't want them to have to go through all the

ups and changes and all that, you know. And then when I watch the tape, it's even more hard because I look at it and there's guys open. We don't throw the ball. You know, it's like you're living this whole life again. It's too, I just would rather wake up and find out they either won or lost. I don't even want to watch it. I don't want to have to live through it. When they're on, when there are other games on, can you even concentrate on the other games?

Well, I mean, I've had... Yeah, I can because I'll put them on the main screen and then I have the other one so my wife will watch the one. She's watching the one and I'm looking at the other and kind of have the other one. So my wife will watch the one. She's watching the one, and I'm looking at the other and kind of going back and forth. So I could do it.

But this week it was easy because they were on Monday night. I mean Sunday night, so I could just turn it on. And she wasn't here, so I got no volume. It was beautiful. It was a wonderful weekend. I mean, Jimmy's just not playing well enough. It looked like he got hurt at halftime, but what does he have, five or six picks at this point? Six picks.

I think what you're seeing is a guy, everybody thinks, well, he was with Josh, he was with us in New England, so he knows the offense. He's been six years away from the offense. And what people don't understand about the New England offense, and this could be towards Mack too, they put a lot of responsibility

on the quarterback. When he comes to the line, he's got to do the mic points, he's got to make the protection call. He's got to do it. Not a lot of responsibility on the quarterback yeah like there's when he comes to the line he's got to do the mic points he's got to make the protection call he's got to do it not a lot of quarterbacks in the league do that like the line does some this guy you know so there's things that are being asked of jimmy that he hasn't been asked that for six years so he's learning the system a little bit too and that's been a problem like but it's inexcusable to throw the interception of you know he's got davante open he doesn't throw it and then he throws the ball away i mean it's almost like you think like that i wasn't surprised to see that he was concussed after

the game or they went in there he said because it looked like he was not making great decisions yeah i mean same thing same thing in denver he didn't make good in the red zone he tries you know turn the ball away in the red zone. I mean, that's what's killing them. You can't be – they've yet to create a turnover on defense, and they've turned it over seven times on offense. So they're minus seven. Most teams that do that will get some turnovers off their defense,

but they have yet to force a turnover on defense. Is Caleb Williams good enough to tank? That's my last question for you. Everybody's going nuts about how good he is in college. We don't see tanking in football really at all. I don't know if you know this, but the Philadelphia 76ers

tanked a couple times. I don't know if you remember that. Did you remove that from your brain or no? We'll be here for another hour. I would say this. This is going to be a really good quarterback draft. And you may not get Caleb Williams. You may get Pennix. You may get Drake May.

You may get the kid up at Washington State that no one knows about, Cam Ward, who's playing out of his – I mean, he's the third best passer in college football. I mean, he's incredible. So there's a lot of good quarterbacks in this draft. And what's going to be interesting is how these quarterbacks would compare to last year's quarterbacks'

drafts. Kenny Pickett in this draft would probably be a third rounder. It feels more like that Josh Allen draft when it just felt like, man, there's a lot going on here.

I'm Chicago. I'm thinking about it. If you're the GM, you have to have a lot of faith that you're going to be there to make the pick. But they have two swings at it with that. They have the Carolina pick and their own pick. They could be a kind of...

Carolina actually got worse. Think about that. You and I both loved Carolina last year, but I thought they, I liked how they ran the ball. I thought they were hard to play. I was betting on them every week. Think about this, and I know we got to go, but last year, Carolina goes into Seattle. They run the ball 44 times for 200 yards.

Darvin only throws it 24 times in the entire game. And they dominate the game. So say you're a carolina panther player and you they've dominated the game now this year we go up there we throw it 58 times at any dollar and it isn't like we're behind 35 to nothing right like this is a tight game and we're calling 58 pass plays for andy freaking dalton and we and we don't run the ball like if you're a player that was there before you're like wait a minute we came up here we kicked their ass

last year and we ran it down the throat now this year we're throwing it with andy dalton like it makes no sense anyway all right you have 60 seconds to tell us what's going to happen with james harden i think he i think he's no shows i think he won't report to camp i think he'll just just pretending or if he does show he'll have a hamstring, he'll have the same Jonathan Taylor problem. You think he does? The shaky injury that can't really be proven? Yeah.

Has anybody seen a picture of him? Has the son from England taken a picture of him or somewhere or TMZ? Is he in any kind of shape at all? The last I saw of him, he was in China. He looked like he was 30 pounds overweight. Would you trade Maxie and Harris for Dame Lillard and throw in like two firsts?

I, I, I don't really want to trade Maxie, but I, I think to me, the only way they can salvage and beat is to do that. Yeah. So that's what I had.

Uh, big was was on before we were talking NBA and I was like, what's the window? You're the wrong person to ask because you're a little less high on Embiid than other Sixers fans that I know. But what's the window for Embiid to be a top 12 player?

Is it three years? Is it five? What's he going to look like when he's 34? 24, 24 months is all it's going to be. Is he now or never? I mean, it's over. Well, that's the thing. So if he's 34. 24, 24 months is all it's going to be. It's either now or never. I mean, it's over. Well, that's the thing. So if it's now or never,

then how do you not trade Maxie for Dame and go for it right now? You have to constantly go all in. Like, I don't know how you don't. I mean, because, but here's the problem. You could end up like the Jets. You could go all in and this guy get hurt.

Right. I don't know what they do and the Embiid I'm not happy it might be time for me to leave that hasn't happened yet but it's lingering it's coming

it's everything the over others Thanksgiving this this for you as a Sixers fan watching this happen organizationally over the last 10 years

a philosophy that you're just steadfastly against in all facets of let's build a losing culture and try to get draft picks. And then we'll coddle all the guys we bring in. This is like your worst nightmare. It's the worst thing ever. And the team in Miami is everything I believe in. They do everything that I believe in player development, toughness, everything I believe in. They do everything that I believe in. Player development, toughness. Everything I believe in is Miami. It's just, you know, it's a shame. So I root for Miami quietly. Yeah, you might have to divorce the Sixers and just remarry the Heat.

I've been to rehab three times. Remarry Heat culture. Yeah, I love the Heat. If the Heat are on, I'm going to watch them. I promise you that. Because they coach hard. They play hard. I love it. All right. So the biggest thing

we learned is that Mac Jones is not an earner. You can buy Lombardi's book, Football Done Right. You can check that out. You can read about the mid-70s Rams and the top 100 players and all that stuff. And you can listen to Mike on the GM Shuffle as well. And he's on Bisson. Good to

see you again. Good to catch up. Hope we'll do it again. Thank you, Bill. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Kyle Creighton and Steve Cerruti for producing, as always. Thanks to Big Waz, Wazneen Lambre, and Michael Lombardi. You can check out his new book as well, which we mentioned. And I will see you on this feed with million-dollar picks and a whole lot more.

I love you. Yes, we can. On the wayside. I'm a Bruce O'Leary. I don't have to be. Must be 21 plus in president select states. FanDuel is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit Fanandler.com slash RG in Colorado, Iowa, Kentucky, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, and Virginia. You can call

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