The Bill Simmons Podcast - The "Eff-You" Warriors, 2021 NFL Draft Mistakes, and Million-Dollar Picks With Marcus Thompson, Peter Schrager, and Danny Kelly

Episode Date: November 18, 2021

The Ringer's Bill Simmons talks about his involvement in the HBO documentary series 'Music Box' (1:55) before chatting with The Athletic's Marcus Thompson about the 12-2 Golden State Warriors, the production from young players like Jonathan Kuminga and Jordan Poole, the rejuvenation of Andre Iguodala, Andrew Wiggins, the much-anticipated return of Klay Thompson, and more (14:40). Then BiIl is joined by The Ringer's Danny Kelly and NFL Network's Peter Schrager to revisit the top 15 picks from the 2021 NFL draft (51:25) before Peter and Bill make their Million-Dollar Picks for NFL Week 11 (1:42:30). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Marcus Thompson, Peter Schrager, and Danny Kelly Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Derek Thompson, longtime writer with The Atlantic magazine on tech, culture, and politics. There is a lot of noise out there, and my goal is to cut through the headlines, loud tweets, and hot takes in my new podcast, Plain English. I'll talk to some of the smartest people I know to give you clear viewpoints and memorable takeaways. Plain English starts November 16th. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the Bill Simmons Podcast presented by FanDuel.

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to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. You must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem called Win 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this, it's game day, all the gang's here. You're tailgating outside the stadium. It's a great time for beer.

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that launched this week, Plain English. Really smart stuff. Made my brain smarter. Food for the brain. Check it out. Check out the Ringer Gambling Show as well, where we're hitting all the football stuff as this has become a traumatic time for football gambling, as we're going to cover later with Peter Schrager.

Also, Rewatchables. The schedule's going to be a little different next week. I'm going to be putting up three podcasts next week, but probably cramming them into Sunday and Tuesday afternoon and Wednesday. And then that's it. Thanksgiving is coming. So we are going to save the rewatchables until later in the Thanksgiving week. And we're going to do it

and you're going to be happy because it's a very famous movie we're doing. So there you go. That's the schedule. Coming up on this podcast, we're going to talk to Marcus Thompson about the Warriors. They're back.

They are back. It's happening. We're going to talk to Danny Kelly and Peter Schrager together about the 2021 NFL Draft, which the top 15 picks have already turned into a horror comedy. And then Schrager and I are going to do

million-dollar picks, and that's it. So that's the podcast today. Before we do that, the Music Box series coming back to HBO. Tonight, we're posting this podcast that should be up by like early Thursday night. So before Music Box goes up. First film is Jagged.

It's about Alanis Morissette. It's directed by Alison Klayman. It is really, really good. And we have five straight weeks of these. So be ready. They're going to premiere on Thursdays, 8 p.m. on HBO. And then they're also going to be running concurrently on HBO Max. So if you miss it on HBO because you're watching football or whatever, no problem.

Just go to HBO Max or go to HBO on demand, wherever you want to find it. It's going to be there. This was a three and a half year odyssey. It actually dates back to summer of 2014 when I started watching a music documentary called History of the Eagles Part One. And I watched it for whatever reason over and over again that summer. I think I must have been really burned out from a bunch of different things, but I was just, I took a couple of weeks basically off and it was just kicking back and trying to refuel and get my batteries going again. And I started watching it and it was unlike any music documentary I had ever seen. Usually they're big, sprawling,

beginning, middle, end. They're kind of done a certain way. And this one really tried to answer two questions, which was, were the Eagles better or more famous than you realized they were? And then why did they break up? And it was really confined to that stuff. I mean, it told the whole story of the band, but the last like hour or so really honed in on this whole thing.

And it was unlike any music documentary I'd seen. I loved it so much. I wrote a 6,000 word piece for Grantland about it that I still think is one of the better pieces I've written over the years. I'm really proud of that one, but that got me thinking, why couldn't this work in some sort of framework as a bigger thing? Could this be replicable? What was replicable about this? And kind of filed it away and was thinking about it and thinking about it. And I'm friends with somebody at a universal music group named Mark Cimino,

who's a relatively powerful guy, just for the record. But we were talking about this stuff. We were talking about music documentaries in 2017 and he said jokingly, like, you know, everybody comes in here and pitches some version of a 30 for 30 idea. And I said, that's funny. I've been thinking about this for three years and I had had a document with, with a couple ideas and just kind of sat on it, didn't do anything. And he said, well, I don't, why don't we try to figure it out? So that's what we did.

And that's why Mark's one of the executive producers along with Jody Gerson, also from UMG because I realized pretty quickly the music industry is a lot different than sports. Sports, you're basically trying to get the rights from a league to make a documentary or you're fair using it in some cases or you're going directly to the the rights from a league to make a documentary. Or you're fair using it in some cases. Or you're going directly to the person you need for the film.

It's a lot more cut and dry music. Man, you have artists, you have managers, you have labels. You have the rights to the songs. You have the publishing rights. And also artists are really careful about what they want to do and who they want to do it with. And I think that's why we've seen such varying degrees of quality with music documentaries over the years. A lot of the times the artists are involved with the film itself, which, you know, they're, they're going to spin it a certain way. Even the Eagles doc,

which I love those guys were tangentially involved and probably really involved. And the reason you know that is because the one thing it never really goes into is the Don Henley, Glenn Frey, what was actually going on with these guys. And if somebody was doing that completely independently, I think they would have probably spent another five, six minutes was Frey jealous of Henley because Henley became the lead singer of the band. What was going on here? That's the real reason that band broke up, I think, was because of the alpha dog issue between those two guys. They couldn't 100% go into it,

but that's the thing with music films. If you're going to get the participants, they're going to have some sort of sway over it. So we knew that was an obstacle going in. We had launched Ringer Films in 2017. And Sean Fennessy and I, we really started talking about stories we wanted to tell, stories that were still sitting there, documentaries that had already been done that kind of removed the idea we might've had off the table, things like that. We were looking at different artists, like it's just everything. Really complicated and kind of made a master list of maybe 20, 25 films that we liked. And then in 2018, as we got a little momentum, we hired Noah and started meeting with directors. And what we

realized was sometimes the directors would have an idea for something that we hadn't thought of, which was a lot, very similar to what happened with 30 for 30. I remember there was a few times where we went to somebody and pitched them an idea and then they'd be like, yeah, that's a good idea. But what about this? Barry Levinson was probably the most famous example of that. We went to him to talk ideas and he really wanted to do something about the Baltimore Colts and their marching band. And we were like, okay. And you learn over the years,

if somebody is really passionate about an idea and they're a good filmmaker, you want to ride it with them. So a good example for this series was we really wanted to work with a filmmaker named Penny Lane, who's fantastic. We had seen a documentary she did called Hail Satan, and it was just so original and so funny. We just wanted to figure out how to get her in the series

and brought her in, talked to her, pitched her an idea. She listened and she's like, you know, what I really want to do is do a documentary about Kenny G. And she explained it and we were like, Kenny G, okay, that's unusual. Make the case. And she sent us one of the best pitches I've ever gotten and made an incredible film. And that's what we tried to do with this series. And that was some of the DNA of 30 for 30 back in the day

was ultimately it's a filmmaker driven series. You've got to support their vision and you've just got to ride with how they see something. And we tried to do that with this. We tried to tell six stories, much like 30 for 30. I think you're not going to tell every story. You're not checking every possible box,

every genre, every artist, all that stuff. But if you tell six and then the next season you tell another six and, you know, you look up one day and you've told 30 stories about music, you know, you're headed in the right direction. So I am just so excited for everybody to see these last five. Woodstock 99 already went up. We did, we actually put that one up in July. It's kind of a sneak preview of the series

to lay the groundwork for it. It was the right time. It was the anniversary of Woodstock. I think it was the 22nd anniversary. That one did really well and people loved it. So really excited for everybody to see these next five. And it's gonna be Thursday nights, 8 p.m. and then HBO Max at the same time.

It's Atlantis this week, DMX next week, Thanksgiving, Kenny G the week after, then our film about Robert Stigwood and how he basically created this whole Saturday Night Fever IP, laid the blueprint for everything that would happen over the next 45 years. That's week four.

And then the fifth week is Juice WRLD, which just won an audience award at the AFI Film Festival. So we were pumped about that. But I love doing these. I love working with the filmmakers. I love getting the cuts. You know, I used to be a writer way back in the day. And I think there's so many things I didn't like about writing because it's so frustrating.

And I don't think there's anything worse than staring at an empty document screen, trying to figure out if your fingers are going to work or not. And eventually I think you just get destroyed mentally by it. I know I did. But, uh, you know, one of my favorite things about writing was every once in a while, I would come together. And for whatever reason, for two hours, three hours, maybe it was a great cup of coffee. Maybe you're just feeling good that day.

Maybe you really felt like you had something to say. It just kind of all would fall into place for three hours. And what's weird about writing is you don't have anybody to talk about it with. It's just this great thing that happens to you only. Then that's it. You can't describe it to somebody else. I guess you could describe it to other writers,

but I think anybody who writes kind of knows what I mean. Sometimes it just falls into place and it's great. I think one of the things I mean. Sometimes it just falls into place and it's great. And I think one of the things I love about working on documentaries specifically, because I feel like I do have something to add at this point. I've done so many of them and been involved in the teamwork of them to the degree that you know how to help something. And especially if you have the right people making them, you feel like you could be additive. I think that the same kind of rush you get, or at least that I got from writing, there's this point in the documentary process between like the third cut

and the fourth cut. Sometimes maybe it's first cut to second cut. Maybe it's just the first cut. When you had this idea that you batted around, the person goes off and makes the interviews and starts calling the footage together. And at some point, it has the shape of what eventually is going to become a film. And one of the things you learn as you keep working on these is

when you see that shape, when you see the first cut, it's not going to be anywhere close to what that final thing is. There's so many different things. It's always too fat. It's not color-coded correctly. The sound isn't great. There's a million things wrong with it. But you see this beautiful, unpolished gem sometimes. And you can kind of see the path to where it's going to go. And sometimes that happens with the first cut. Sometimes it's like the third cut.

I remember with Juice, which Tommy Oliver did for us, we just got a ton of footage that we had to go through. And he tried to shape it with all the footage for the first cut, second cut. And it didn't feel like a doc yet. And then there was this moment when he sent another cut and it took shape. And it's just such a rush.

I can't describe it where you're like, oh shit, this is happening. This is going to be a good one. And I think obviously I have been writing for, I don't know, it's been three, four years at this point. I don't know if I'm going to write again. I might be done because I do feel like it's like golf. If you're not doing it all the time

and if you're not working on it, it's not worth doing. I don't think it's something you just parachute in and type some stuff. It's just not going to be at the level you're going to want it. At least that's how I feel. But the documentary side of stuff, that rush is still there and it's there every time. And it's something that, you know, really drives us.

We have a lot of projects coming up and it's a side of the little company that we built that we sold to Spotify and some of the stuff we're trying to do for them all over the map was storytelling with conversation pods, with narrative pods, everything else. But like the docs to me are the most fun

because there are these moments when you can just see the path, like the doors open and you're like, all right, we got here, here we go. And that's why these are so much fun for me to work on. So anyway, the last piece of it is when you send it off into the world and you hope people like it.

So that's happening tonight. HBO, check out Jagged. Check out the next four we have coming as well. Thanks for the support. Spread the word for us.

We really care about this stuff. And that's that. Music Box. Tonight, 8 p.m. HBO. Yeah, I know we're going against the Pats.

We're going to talk about the Pats in a second. Coming up, Marcus Thompson talking Warriors, and then we'll do some football with Danny Kelly and Peter Schrager. First, Pearl Chip! All right, we are taping this. It is a little past 1 o'clock Pacific time. On Thursday, the Warriors are playing tonight. They're playing at Cleveland.

No Evan Mobley, so there's a chance they could be 13-2 by the time you hear this podcast. Our guy Marcus Thompson is here from The Athletic. He just came back from a little mini road trip watching them beat Charlotte, or they lost to Charlotte, then

beat Brooklyn. They beat the hell out of Brooklyn. This Warriors thing is real. You could feel it brewing in the preseason. You can feel it brewing opening night. Now this is the week everybody's like, oh, Warriors, contender, bandwagon. But they're playing better than any team in the league. Are you a believer?

I'm trying not to be, but I don't have a choice. I've been in denial. You know, a lot of people are talking about, is this like 2015, 16? And I'm like, yo, chill. They won 24 in a row that year, right? That was a 73-9

jaunt. And they were coming off a title so you knew what was happening. This team, I'm like, relax. It's more like 12-13, right? They were good. They didn't know what to expect. Kind of wanted to see how it played out. But after that display in Brooklyn and the way Steph Curry took over Barclays Center,

it started to feel real. I don't know how long I can hold off. It's pretty legit. Well, think about this. There are two losses. First one, they lose NLT to Memphis. Easily could have won. Second one was Sunday night.

They lose to Charlotte, kind of a dopey game. It felt like they were going to just flip the switch and win it. They never did. Comes down to a jump ball down to where the ref just throws it right to Terry Rozier. It was the worst jump ball throw I've seen in like five years. And then they end up losing that. The point is they haven't had a legitimate loss yet. What's crazy is, you know, I picked the under for them before the season and then I changed my pick, although I wasn't allowed for the actual rankings,

but I changed my pick right before the year because I liked everything I was reading. I thought this would take a little time until Klay came back for this to look the way it was going to look. You figured they could replace some of his points with Poole, but it's been more than that. Like this team looks like a finished product back for this to look the way it was going to look. You figured they could replace some of his points with Poole, but it's been more than that. This team looks like a finished product, and we haven't even

seen the Clay part yet. I'm stunned by that. Are you less surprised you're around the team a lot more often than I am? No, I'm stunned. This is too soon. I mean, all of it was like, yo, Clay gets to this team, and Wiseman gets to this team.

Then you'll get to see like how good they can be. But they're looking like one of the best teams in the league without those two. They're they've added shooting. Right. And we like you kind of know the Warriors kind of need that. Like that's integral to how they operate. It's a lot about freeing up stuff. You got to have the spacing. But who knew it was like a magic pill?

Andrew Wiggins is playing incredible. Let's take the guys one at a time. Let's go with Wiggins first. Wiggins is 18 a game in 29 minutes. He's had a couple best guy on the floor games. This seems like

the closest we've been to what we expected in 2014 when he was the first pick in the draft. I'm like, this is a two-way guy. He's an incredible athlete and he can shoot. And the only question was, does he care? It seems like the DNA of the Warriors. I don't know if they're putting in an IV and just injecting it in him or what's going on, but it seems like he cares this year. He started slow. Like early he was struggling. He had a knee issue.

He had, you know, he dealt with the whole vaccination stuff. That was a big drama. I don't think he was comfortable during that at all. And it kind of threw him for a loop. But the last few weeks, like it started with actually Minnesota, Mary Duck, don't call it to these house. Like he had an extra level of that game. And he said, yo, I'm gonna keep it. Remember he ducked on Carl Anthony Towns? Like, he had an extra level that game. And he said, yo, I'm going to keep it. And he's been aggressive.

But I think that's the – like, he has the space to kind of do his thing. It's not him and Steph and a bunch of dudes who can't shoot. It's hard to clog the paint on his team. So he's, like, getting to the basket. I've never seen him this good on offense and defense at the same time he's been consistently good on defense and then offense kind of comes and goes now with steph steps out of the game like wiggins is like let me take over and they've been begging for this they've been wanting this so badly like wiggins just take over just do you a step since you got

six minutes to just be in your own universe, and this is your team. And he's kind of doing it now, and it's a problem. Steph sat seven minutes in the third quarter against Brooklyn. Seven minutes. Brooklyn had KD and Harden on the court. Steph was sitting, and they expanded the lead. Like, that just doesn't happen at Warriors land. Well, I think people, and I'm guilty of this too.

Wiggins is only 26. It feels like he's like 31. It feels like he's a finished product, but it came to the league after one year in college and the Minnesota stuff was weird. The Golden State stuff, like right as he maybe is going to go up a level, only plays 12 games for the Warriors.

Then we have last year, which is kind of a weird jam together schedule here this is like the best situation he's been i think what's interesting with him he's always scored like you go through his just look at his basketball reference he's never been lower than 16.9 points a game he had 23.6 in 2017. The point is if he's going to play 30 minutes, he's going to score 17, 18 a game. You have that and then you have the pool piece. Now, you've covered pool for his whole career.

He was a late first-round pick, kind of a flyer. I didn't think this would turn into this where you're like, holy shit, when Klay comes back who's losing minutes? We can't take him from Poole. So did you see this coming? I saw

that he had the talent, right? Some of these guys, I mean largely because of what the Warriors needed they don't have another guy who can from the top of the key make something happen. They just don't. It's Steph and it's Draymond that's that's their two creators so you can see jordan pool he's got some handle he's got a nice little shot it was

it was terrible at first his shot was terrible he's done something and the shot looks decent but now like there are some stretches where it's like yo they got another steph i didn't see that at all now he'll go some stretches where he's the complete opposite right he he's the type he'll chuck that 28 footer after he missed three in a row it's like wait a second jordan that's what you do after you made three in a row so he's got kind of that he's he's got some jr smith in him right but yeah he can he can create off the dribble he could get hot in the manner that steph and clay can just not as not as efficiently. And he's a weapon. I don't think anybody saw this out of him.

And crazy enough, it happened after he went to the G League. He got sent to the G League, which was like, this pick ain't working out. And he comes back and he looks like a different player. He's been the salvation for the Warriors kind of like draft process, because they've had a lot of misses. Jordan Poole has emerged as like,

all right, maybe the record isn't as bad as we thought. Well, they have. Last year, it was if Steph didn't have a good game, they lost. This year,

bottom line. This year, Steph's had games when he didn't even shoot that well and they were still winning by double digits because

now they have three guys who can create something for themselves plus Draymond who can create something for other people so you really have four either shooters creators playmakers and then a fifth when Clay comes back and then all these people they added who make so much more sense for the team than last year did I the shocking one to me is Iguodala because I thought he was finished last year he just looked like he was done that was it was over he looked at didn't he yeah he just looks rejuvenated uh he's such like

steve kerr has always called him the adult in the room and they he's still that dude he's still the guy who's like all right things are not going well sub and andre put the ball in his hands and he just calms everything down he and draymond they they're like they're like community college teachers who got some good students right like oh we got some protégés here right like we're excited about teaching jonathan cabega gary payton a second like kind of guys who are in their ilk right who think like them and want to smother and want to make plays on defense and they're just eating everything they say. Just eating it up.

It's a bit of a rejuvenation. Like you can see Andre. He's just so valuable. Steph loves having him. Draymond loves having him. Everybody loves Andre around. I do think that has helped him, but I don't know why. I don't know how he got more spring. I don't know how he looks faster

like this is watching him in miami it's like yeah he's 37 and he's such a physical freak it was jarring to watch him in miami it was like oh okay this dude who's always been in incredible shape always been an incredible athlete you can start seeing that he's not right you can start seeing it's like oh wow andre finally started declining and then he comes here and he's like dunking and running a break. It's incredible. Credit to Steph. Yeah, usually when they hit that point, it never comes back.

Especially with the swing guys. The Sean Marion types that relied on athleticism, at least for a little with the hoops IQ. And there would be this little cliff that you saw and then that was it. that relied on athleticism, at least for a little, what they, they also had the hoops IQ, but, and it, there would be this little cliff that you saw and then that was it.

That was it, yeah. There was a moment in that Charlotte game. Charlotte's down, Charlotte's up two and they inbound it and Rozier has the ball

and it was Iguodala and I think it was Draymond and they, and they're both coming at him and it, and it was like watching Wild Kingdom in the 70s

where it was like, uh-oh. The Hyatt is trapped, right? Oh my God, the Hyatt is trapped. And they just kind of pushed him toward half court and they were coming in. And it was like, I was honestly like watching the 2015 Warriors again, where it was like elite defense. Yeah, it was like flashback.

And that was it. They tied him up, got a jump ball. But as he was dribbling up and he saw those guys, you could see he was like, oh, shit, what do I do? And he kind of dribbled sideways. But you think they had that plus Peyton, who has been a revelation this year as the classic latest possible bloomer. And then I got to say, man, Kaminga, who they just kind of, they brought out of the refrigerator and they're like, hey, have you tried this?

And we're like, oh, no, I haven't tried the Kaminga. Oh, my God. He's so fluid. It's unbelievable. You know, Joe Lacob, the Warriors owner, you know how he gets, right? He's the most upbeat, positive, optimistic dude of all time. He thinks everything is going to work. He thinks it's always the best move ever.

So he was talking that Kameka stuff after the draft and we're like, dude, he slipped to seven for a reason. And you hadn't seen much of him. And now it's like, are you kidding me? You know what he's going to do? He's going to extend Steph's career. He's going to extend Klay's career. You could start now switching it a bit,

and now it's not Steph carry everything, right? Draymond carry everything. Now you got these two young bucks, and now you just turn these Hall of Fame champions into more complimentary pieces or supporting cast. He might extend the career. He's 19. He left Africa at 13 to create his own life, played with the G League Ignite. I mean, the dude's 19 and this is November and

he's contributing to NBA games. Jordan Poole, this is his third year. He's just starting to show it. It is jarring. It is definitely jarring because you just watch his skills year. He's just starting to show it. It is jarring. It is definitely jarring because you just watch his skill set. He doesn't even know how to play. He doesn't even know where to go half the time, but he knows how to jump quickly. He doesn't foul. He's smart with how he plays.

And he's, they just don't, Warriors don't have explosive athletes like this, Bill. Like, you know, it's passing and cutting and shooting. They got dudes taking off from outside the key. This is wild. This is like a whole new iteration of Warriors basketball. Well, the question was his motor and just in general, did he give a shit? And that's why he falls to seven.

That's why I think Orlando was afraid to take him. Listen, sometimes guys just go to the right team. I think if he goes to Orlando or OKC, I'm not sure we're as excited about him. I think when you get in this atmosphere and you got uncles, you got Draymond, you got Andre and Steph, you get three people who are like, all right, here's how you're a professional. So that's perfect. They can ease them in. They're not actually relying on him, but when he comes in, it's like this incredible, you know, weapon.

It, you know, not to turn this into a bummer, but it reminded me a little of when the 86 outs, the greatest team of all time, when they drafted bias. And it was like, it was 48 hours of,

Oh my God. Like, we're just going to be able to sprinkle this guy in. He was the best college player last year. And on his own terms, he's going to be able to come in. Not to compare Kapenga to Vias, but when you go to a really good team as a rookie like this, and all you have to do is come in and just do the very basic things you're good at, it's pretty liberating. I just don't think there would have been a better team for him than this. No, and you got to factor in, too, the difficulty of watching your other draft picks play 30 minutes.

That's a tough thing to do. You know, think of Wiseman last year. Anthony Edwards and LaMelo is going off and he's like, yo, I want to go off, too. Right. And it kind of speeds you up. But because he's on the Warriors, because the guys talking to him is Draymond Green and Andre Iguodala and Steph Curry,

like there's some credibility so you can listen. Like you put him on the Kings or a team like that, like he's like, I'm not, give me the ball, right? I'm about to go show

I'm better than Scottie Barnes, right? I'm about to go show you I'm better than some of these guys who are ahead of me. And you could tell he wants to show that, like I'm better than Jalen Green, but he's got players. He's got a system. He's got a coach who were like, yo, be patient. I promise you, if you just do this, you're going to be great. And it's easier to buy it because of where he is. If he ends up in a situation where it's not Andre, it's not Draymond, it's not Steph, you could totally see him being like,

man, whatever. I'm better than him. Give me the rock. Yeah. You know, he does a couple things that are pretty advanced. First of all, he's not playing too fast. He's not like a frantic 19-year-old athlete rookie who's just like, ah!

He actually plays with a pace. He had a move he's not like a frantic 19-year-old athlete rookie who's just like, ah, ah, ah. Like he actually plays with a pace. Like he had a move, one of the games, I think it was Charlotte when he came in, where he was on the right side, he dribbled left, and he just did this natural spin move to a shooting hand and got a nice shot off. And I was like, Jesus, that was like a year four move. And then he'll come over, he'll set a pick for Steph.

And he just kind of instinctively knows when to roll already, which is like, all right, that can't be taught. So there's, you know, it's like having a fun toy. And I think like when I watch this Warriors team, you think how lucky they were with that Russell trade, which is just Russell for Wiggins straight up is a bad trade for Minnesota. And to end up with Wiseman and you get Poole, you get Kaminga, and then hopefully Moody,

that's four. And you almost have like when we were growing up, like those late 80s, early 90s college teams where they would have the stack seniors and juniors. And then like, here have like here's grant hill he's a freshman he's the best freshman in the world we're gonna ease him in and it does kind of feel like the nba version of that right no question you know what's funny about kameka he was not this in summer league in summer league he was like give me the ball i'll create from the perimeter i'll jack in a bunch of threes i'm taking people out to dribble. And it was like,

how are you going to get this dude to buy in? And already he is, right? Already. He's like, all right, I can play. I can just do this thing. I also think they did learn a lesson from Wiseman last year, like where it wasn't so simple for Wiseman.

I mean, he had two practices and there was a start and center, right? Yeah. So it was like, they learned like, yo, let's just put dudes at three, give them three or four things to do and let them master that before you start adding stuff. I do think that helps. Well, it's a little like rookie quarterback, right?

Like the Jets just throw Zach Wilson in and he gets annihilated. It's like, is Jack Wilson better off than he was five weeks ago? No. And Wiseman was like that too. He's probably worse off. His body is anyway. I think Wiseman was five weeks ago? No. And Wiseman was like that too. He's probably worse off. His body is anyway. I think Wiseman was worse off from last year. I don't think that helped him to get thrown into the fire like that. No, it was tough.

He had a couple plays where he's bringing it up, and it's a highlight where the seven-foot dude is dribbling up court and running a break. But that stuff is like, those are bad habits. He took a lot of 22-footers. They're trying to post them up, but he doesn't know how to post yet. So they needed to run a lot of pick and roll, keep it simple for him, and they're doing that with Kaminga.

And I bet you when Wiseman gets back, they're going to do the same thing. Don't give up more than what you give Kevon Looney. Catch the ball, finish. That's it. Set a screen, make a pass. Kurt said last week he didn't intend on playing Kaminga. And then there was some practice on like a week ago where he just destroyed the practice. And they were like, all right, fine.

We'll give you 19 minutes. He's literally guarding Steph in practice. Steph is like, yo, he's blocking my shot. He just kind of blew their mind. And, you know, one of the reasons I didn't know they would be that good because they gave up so many defensive players. They lost the guys. And the central point to all of the Warriors teams has been

Klay guards, point guards. And Steph doesn't have to. And now without Kh without clay they lost kelly uber they lost kent baysmore those were the ones who did it so it's like who's gonna do it and now they've got brought back andre who can do it kamiga can do it really well wiggins can do it so now they've got all these options and then you have draymond playing like out of his minds but that that's the interesting part. That's what's good about Kameka.

He got to earn it. Like he's in practice blowing people's mind. It's like, yo, let's get this dude a few minutes here. You hear Steph talking about a guy blocking his three-pointer. You're like, what? How do you block the quickest release of all time? And Kameka gets to it sometimes. Yeah, because the

best guys know. You saw Durant had a press conference after he played Toronto like a week ago. And he went out of his way to talk about Scottie Barnes for 55 seconds. And he did this thing when I would do the pods with him. He went out of his way to talk about Booker once when Booker was like, you know,

on lottery Phoenix teams. He's like, that guy, they can kind of see it. And it really does seem like the Warriors see something with Kaminga, like Curry and Draymond specifically. And, and probably a good dollar too, where it's like, no,

no, this guy's different. This, this, this guy we need. We, so I, I wonder like if Draymond takes you under his wing,

which he's clearly doing at least a little bit with Kaminga, that's mostly good. What would be the downside of Draymond having Uncle Draymond trying to shepherd you? Because Draymond could be tough, too. He could definitely be a demanding teammate. You got to have skin for it. Clay can tell you about that, right?

Clay's been the brunt of Draymond for years. You know, Clay wasn't always the great defender. But I've seen him yell at Steph. You just have to have a certain disposition because it can wear on you. It can break you a bit. And he's gotten better as he's gotten older. He's got the gray in his beard now.

He's got some wisdom about him. So he'll follow some of that stuff up with some praise and some art. Jordan Poole is one of these guys who like will say something back to draymond they go at it they caught one of the episodes on the bench but jordan pooh will go back at it with draymond and you know those you know those little biting little sarcastic replies jordan pooh's probably a master at it right you could just see he'll say that one little reply when you're a kid you just want him to listen and then they'll say that one little reply when you're a kid, you just want him to listen. And then they'll just, that one little comment right back,

and it just drives you crazy. Poo is a master of that, right? He's going to say his piece. And Draymond, they'll go at it, but then you'll see Draymond put his arm around him. You'll see him praise him in the postgame. So you can see him getting better at that, but you definitely have to have a certain level of like,

all right, I can take it. I'm going to be here. Deal with it. Because Draymond, he, he will, he's going to let you hear it. And there's been,

there has been some issues where guys who just like, yo, this dude is too much. He's lessened it some, but now he's got three rings. So what are, what are, what's Kavika going to say?

He's just going gonna suck it up especially when you see it working right when he tells you if you do x y and z this is gonna happen and then to a 19 year old who's never played you're like oh yo that worked perfectly now it kind of feeds into it but yeah he's definitely softened a little bit like where he'll he'll he'll he'll like a guy he'll love on him a little bit to prepare for the harshness. But also they're winning. And Draymond is a much, much easier dude to deal with when they're winning.

But those two years when he was losing, he wasn't the nice guy back then. Well, I was going to have you on when I felt convinced that this team had it. And I thought... When was that? Like, when did you know? Here's what I knew.

End of the Brooklyn game. Not the Brooklyn game, because you can go in and beat anybody. Their fuck you came back in the Brooklyn game. They kept Curry in for like the extra,

extra two minutes so he could get the ninth three. And I was like, oh, oh, we're at this stage already. The fuck you Warriors are back. I just thought they were good. Now they, now I was like, Oh, Oh, we're at this stage already. The fuck you warriors are back. I just thought they were good that now they, now it's like, and look, this happens where the teams,

they kind of remember, Oh, I remember that game when, you know, during the season, when we finished second in the lottery, when that one team kind of poured it on, they start filing that shit away and they're going to go through. I guarantee Draymond and Steph remember every moment from the last two years when somebody poured it on, somebody said something. So I do think this is what's going to happen if this team stays healthy. It's going to be the Denzel man on fire settling scores portion of the season. I felt it in that Brooklyn game. You know why you're so right?

Who was the first game before he played last year and got utterly destroyed? Brooklyn. Got just completely blitzed. It was Brooklyn. That's right. Yeah. You know, I thought about that. I think I even tweeted it, like, yo, the dash is empty the bitch. Why is Steph in the game? And every time he touched the ball, the crowd stands up and they're waiting for Steph to shoot and he hits I think he hit three more threes that quarter well he was just like yo

I'm rubbing in it's not just Steph and Dre and Iguodala people forget like Kerr is a tough motherfucker oh probably the craziest of them all right yeah he and don't think he doesn't file all this stuff away either this is the guy, the last dance captured perfectly. He's

got in a fight with Michael Jordan, like stood up to that dude over and over again. And I think he took the last couple years hard too. So I'm sure he filed a couple of those his way as well. So I think the next Laker game, now that you can feel a little bit on opening night, but

everyone's feeling each other out. The next time they play the Lakers with how messed up this Lakers team is, that is going to be a go for the jugular game. Especially with Steph, who needs to shake that Staples Center curse. He can't shoot there. You know he's going to. If he's feeling it at all, he's going to try to break

the record at Staples, like exercising a demon. Well, now the Crypt crypto.com center. And the other one that I noticed this, and this is when it got planted in my head, but I wasn't sure

it was positive, but Trey Young comes in and Steph just lights up the Hawks, right? He actually rolls them in a piece of paper and smokes them. Yeah.

And I was like, oh, is this the next Steph Curry, this guy? By the way, their styles are nothing similar, but he just like tortured them that night. And poor Her Curry, this guy? By the way, their styles are nothing similar. But he just tortured them that night. Poor Herter, I don't think he's been the same. I think they had to send him to the hospital.

So I do think the edge is back. I miss the fuck you Warriors. And did you see Draymond talking about, we better not win a title. I know. You're right. They definitely have some swagger. And it wasn't there at the beginning,

but I think they see how good they can be. And they still have Klay Thompson waiting in the way, who's chomping at the bit. So you know, when Jackie Boo gets out there with his headband, you know he's going to go crazy. So yeah, there's a lot about

the team that's back. The perfect guy to ease back in, right? Doesn't need the ball. He's only additive. There's a lot about the team that's back. The perfect guy to ease back in. Right? Oh, yeah. Doesn't need the ball. Just stand in a corner. He's only additive. He's shoot threes, play defense. Oh, you need me to do more of that?

I can do it. I think here's the only thing, other than health, obviously health, but these guys have been rested for two years. I do think this is going to be a trade rumor team and how the organization manages that. Because we're going to hit mid December.

Teams are going to start getting unhappy. Guys are going to start being floated around. And this is a team that has, has built a little bit of a war trust. I, I had always heard that's why they picked Kamingo over Franz Wagner. Um, that even though Wagner probably made more sense for the team and he would

have played right away. Kamingo was a higher upside for a trade asset. Um, once we get into mid late December, guys start getting unhappy, guys become available. And the words are going to be in every trade rumor because they can, they can use Wiggins with Wiseman.

They could just put Wiseman and Kaminga and Moody. Like they, they have all these different ways to get anyone who has any kind of a salary and how they manage that with how well things are going i think is going to be hard yeah and they the crazy part is you know as we know it doesn't even have to be true no you just use them as fodder right like yo that was like the ben simmons jalen brown thing last week it was just it was like oh they offered no no read the story they didn't actually offer jalen brown that's just what it would take. Yeah.

That's what they're going to have to deal with, even though there's no way Joe Lacob is allowing a trade of Kaminga or Wiseman. Like, he's so in love with them. And he has all of now the reason. Like, he has all the clout. Like, if Kaminga got out here and looked terrible, all right, but now he looks like he might be something.

So it's going to be a thing, right? It's going to. Wiggins is playing himself into some form of value. And don't forget about the Damian Lees, like these other little guys that are valuable on the roster. Otto Porter that other teams might want. I don't think they'll do. They won't do anything big because they actually have the acquisition coming in clay. Like the words have a big acquisitions coming, but you're

right. It's, it's going to be the kind of self-fulfilling monster, right? The trade stuff, the hype, right? The they're so popular. It's nuts now it's getting that way. So now you're going to start seeing, this is an it team again because they haven't been for a couple of years and most of the players on this team don't know anything about how it used to be.

But the amount of people in Brooklyn who were at Steph's pregame warmups, I was like, this was like it used to be. So you also got that element. How does Jordan Poole handle that, right? Jordan Poole likes to, he likes to go for the big splash.

How is he going to handle with all that like some of that stuff they're going to have to work out well you also we didn't mention the Steph piece of this I never gave up I always had him at the top or near the top and this has been you know the best

players of this year have been Giannis and Jokic and Curry and one other person who I'm blanking on. KD? KD. There's been a clear top four. Luka, who didn't show up in shape, but should be in that top five if he's healthy and in shape. And then LeBron, we'll see what happens. But, you know, Curry, his effect as a teammate and all this stuff and the spacing he can create

when it's the right kind of players around him, that part, that's been magnificent. I got to say, like, when I think about trades for them, I kind of wouldn't want to throw in Wiggins in a trade unless I was getting in somebody awesome. I like the stuff that he does for them. The problem is his value. He's got 30 something

million left. Yeah, but I mean, I assume it would be his salary with something. But yeah, I think for what he brings for them, I think it's a nice thing to have. There's one team that I think

would be an interesting fit trade-wise. Look at me. I'm going to now start trade rumors even though I just said out. Here we go. I have been watching the Indiana team,

a team that doesn't really make sense together. And it does seem like the Turner or Sabonis will be a thing. And I was thinking about Sabonis on this Golden State team. How interesting that would be. I also was thinking Turner on this Golden State team, how interesting that would be.

And it's like, all right, if Wiseman's on the table, but I'm getting one of those two guys back and I'm trying to win a title. And I have a real path now within the West. Like we could be the best team in the West. My instinct would be, don't do anything. But if there's a Sabonis play because of his hoops IQ and just how I think he

would fit in with that, I think he would fit in with that. I think they would have to explore that. That would be the one guy. I like, I like, I want Myles Turner. Yeah, Turner would be another one, right? I like the three-point shooting ability. I like the rim protection and the three-point shooting ability. And Turner was a guy that, you know,

was rumored to be in the mix around the draft point. But Indiana, for some reason, never decides to trade these guys, right? I know. For some reason, they're like, yeah, we're just going to hold on to them. Yeah. The interesting part about this, and like you're so right about Wiggins, he's far more valuable on the roster than off of it. Yeah. But one of the reasons, like when you talk about Steph, is the chemistry is back.

Like there's that element. And you know this, right? From even back in the old days, these teams carry with them their own aura. And the Warriors have that back. You could see that while you watch Brooklyn, right? They don't have any of it. And they have that back. And that's a credit to Steph Curry. But it's also something that's so finicky. Do you bring in a guy like a Miles Turner that might... that's a credit to steph curry but it's also something that's so finicky do you bring in a guy like a viles turner that might right you know that that's the part that's so dicey with them they got wiggins to buy in they got all these youngsters who are like doing whatever they they're told because it's working it just it feels so risky to mess that

up especially with some like mercurial figure who's going to want a contract. Right. Right. In many ways, that's why Wiggins was perfect. Cause he had a contract. Nobody wanted, so you don't have to worry about it.

Like he's here, he's buying in. Now you start throwing all this other stuff and, you know, you know, and Steph, they trust. Right.

So you figure you can put anybody on a team with Steph and somehow it works out, but it would just be so risky. I don't think they'll do anything because I think the West is set up for them. Yeah, I'm with you. It's too risky. It's funny how popular they are, and I think

a lot of it has to do with you have eight, nine years of a real history with this team, but also the fact that they stayed together, which is so unusual for this day and age. Every other team is thrown together and the guys change year after year. And even Milwaukee who had Giannis and Middleton as the two guys that

were there the whole time, it felt a little more emotional that those guys are able to Milwaukee. If, if the dubs came back from the 2019 playoffs and some of the worst breaks, I think any team has had on that stage where you lose Durant and Clay. In a week. Yeah, in a week. It's just like still unbelievable to think about. And then you think like they hit the depths the next year and it just seems like this is over. This is done. They look out in the lottery. They look out with that Wiggins trade, which

just is an incredible trade to look back on. And now it's like they've rebuilt this. And now I can't imagine what Joe Lacob's like. See a thousand points of light Joe Lacob again? What did he say that time? Light years ahead. Light years ahead. Joe is back.

Now he's like Spaceballs light year. He's ludicrous speed now. Oh my God. Remember during the offseason, during the draft, the push from inside was, yo, get a star. You need some help. Like, Steph needs some help. Clay's out another year.

You know, I was out two years. Get somebody to help. Got to get Bradley Beal. Yeah, Bradley Beal. And Joe Lacob is like, nah. The words brass are like, nah. Bob Myers is saying consistently, I just want to see the team with Klay again. Let me see it with Klay.

And Joe fell in love with Wiseman. He's in love with Kameka because he doesn't want to be the Lakers after Kobe where you got this wilderness period. He wants to be able to keep going and at least be relevant. So he stuck to his guns, even against his superstars, right? So now that he's looking very right, right? Now that it looks like, yo, you probably don't, you don't need Bradley Bill. And Kaminga is the future.

And these dudes who might extend your career. He's looking right. You got it. Man, Joe Lankan is as high as it gets right now because from the draft to what they did in the offseason, the moves they made, like even going back to Jordan Poole is now a great draft pick. They're filling light years again

and it's hard to go against it because we've been like, yo, where's your draft picks picks your draft isn't working lately you know and you know remember before they got wiggins they actually got d'angelo russell which didn't work out at all right right and they weren't able they last year they swung and missed on guys like batum and sergey baka and players were telling the warriors no like yeah kind of cool but i'm'm going to go to the Clippers. I'm going to go here. And the Warriors weren't the it team. So now that they're back, Joe Lacob is like, he's

like Mortimer, right? Remember when they come into America, when he gave the cash, he was like, Mortimer, we're back. Like, that's Joe Lacob right now. He's feeling it. And he should be. He did. Well, it helps when you have Curry, who's replaced Duncan as like the most important guy to build your franchise around.

The teammate, he's never going to leave. And from a personality standpoint, you could just build around him. You know, I was thinking near the end of Bird, McHale and Parrish, they tried to reboot, right? And they had Reggie Lewis in. They lucked out with that pick. Then they got Brian Shaw, Dee Brown, and Ed Pinkney was there, and it was like this weird old young thing.

But the problem was Bird and McHale were too banged up at that point. But on paper, it was a little like that, where it was like it was a new era using the old guys from the old era with these new guys. And it had a moment, and then Bird's back gave out.

The difference is Curry's arguably as good as he's ever looked the old guys from the old era with these new guys. And it had a moment that birds back gave out the differences. Curry's arguably as good as he's ever looked in some of these games. You know, I don't know if he's, you know, you'd have the 2016 season is pretty outrageous. Like some of the percentage stuff he did, but it was nuts. Wasn't it?

But he could still get there. He could still get there. And the better this team is, the better it's going to be for him. All right. Marcus Thompson, protect your corner. There's going to be a lot of national media people

coming in trying to grab Warriors people. You're there. They got to go through Marcus. I've been doing this for years. I've been defending this turf for a long time. So I'm ready for war. Not as ready as I used to be. Come get me, me national media I'm right here

let's go bring it on come see me about this alright I'm definitely coming to a game too so I'll see you in a I have for a Metallica concert not for a Warriors game I'm coming for a Warriors game I'm not sitting this out the buzz is back

I thought you were boycotting last time I saw you was in Oracle I thought you were likecotted. Last time I saw you was at Oracle. I thought you were like, once Oracle's done, we're not coming back. I did feel that way, but now I've changed my mind, as always. As always, I'm reconsidering. All right, good to see you, Marcus. All right, thanks, man.

This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way.

Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. All right. Danny Kelly is here from The Ringer. Peter Schrager is here from Good Morning Football and Fox Sports. We're going to break down the NFL draft from 2021, which was like eight, seven months ago, six months ago, feels like it was 10 years ago. It is now incredible to look at the top 15 picks.

When you think of the subplots that have emerged since then, including my hero, Mac Jones, I'm getting texts guys this week and emails from people who were like, how the fuck did you guys figure out how to clone Tom Brady? And I'm like, I don't know. Look, Belichick had to take it up or not. She was the greatest football coach of all time. But Mac Jones falls to 15 in this draft. What I want to do is I wanted to go through

from pick one through pick 15 with you guys and we could talk about some of the stuff that happened. So I'm just going to start and then I'll bring you in first pick Trevor Lawrence to the Jags. I think that happens again. Yeah. I, as good as Max been,

I still think Trevor Lawrence has to go first. I don't think we can hang anything that's happened this season on him. We'll see. We'll see if we'll see if, you know, Peyton Manning was great his first year, but we'll see. I haven't seen anything that know, Peyton Manning was great his first year, but we'll see. I haven't seen anything that made me scared off that that was the wrong pick.

Danny, have you? No, I mean, I think it's so hard to kind of evaluate what he's been doing. His number one receiver is Jamal Agnew. Like the whole team is kind of a mess right now. He's I actually saw this, I think, from PFF. He's like fourth in big time throws this season. He's definitely making some really nice throws. He's he's, I actually saw this, I think from PFF, he's like fourth in big time throws this season. He's definitely making some really nice throws. Um, he's, he's pushing it.

I think he's being a little too aggressive at times and creating some turnovers because of that. Um, but it, like I said, it's just kind of hard because this offense is so bad. The support system is so bad. Obviously we know, or it seems as though the coaching situation is a mess. And so it's just tough. I think he's going to be fine. And I agree with you.

I think that he would be the number one pick if it happened again. Now I like, he's just got the skillset, the pedigree, all that stuff. It's it would happen again. I think. I'm going to say they wouldn't have gotten urban.

I don't think without Trevor Lawrence being the number one pick. So I feel like that's kind of it. And I think urban say what you want. They're playing hard for him right now. And you know, Trent Balky is the general manager and he was with San Francisco for years and he's not necessarily the best in media opportunities. He's like, that guy can scout players. And the hope is, Hey, urban's got a plan.

We've got our guy. Once, once you have a quarterback, you're good for, for something like, and they feel very confident knowing some folks in that organization that coaching quarterback they like, and they'll build around it. So I think that's the number one pick, and I don't think they have any regrets. We had Bledsoe in 93, and I think we went 1-10 the first 11 games with him. And he's getting the shit kicked out of him. And it was a little similar to the Lawrence thing,

where nobody felt like it was the wrong pick, but it also wasn't going great. And then down the stretch, I think he won his last four. And by the end of the season, everybody was out of their mind about the Bledsoe era. I wouldn't be shocked if something similar to that happened. Lawrence, the only problem is I don't know if he has the skill position, guys. Anyway, we're not writing him off. But the Jets at number two, taking Zach Wilson. There's two problems with this pick. One, they might've ended up with

the wrong guy. Two, just what Miami got at number three, where Miami ends up trading the number three pick for number 12 in 2021. And for a first and third round pick in 2023, when you think like that, that's what the Jets could have had. They could have moved back, gotten all these picks and still potentially gotten Fields or Mack Jones. That's pretty tough. Shregs, what do you say to Jets fans as they kind of reconcile themselves with the fact that this is how it ended up. It's, it's, it's been a disaster on, on every level. And they didn't bring in a veteran quarterback to groom him. Like Kyler now has McCoy to groom him. And Trevor Lawrence has veteran quarterbacks in that, but like Mike White and, and James Morgan were the quarterbacks in camp. They didn't have Flacco until they traded for him. And the offensive line is atrocious.

The defense right now has given up 175 points the last four weeks. It's the second worst of any, and they have a defensive head coach. Yeah. So you're literally saying, Hey, you're going to start week one behind a porous offensive line with no real skill position players. And then also have a defensive head coach. It was like laying him out there and just get the shit kicked out of him. And I know the arguments are, well, look at Peyton

Manning's first year, look at Aikman's first year, those guys struggled and they use that for the following year. But like, I don't, I don't know what the plan was for this year for Zach Wilson. And, you know, we talk about Garoppolo being there with San Francisco and whether like, wouldn't have a Garoppolo type quarterback been perfect for the Jets this year? Like, all right, you're here for now. And we're not sure if that's the longterm, but you're going to take the lumps this year behind that offensive line. You could figure it out. And then Zach will learn he's still really young, but I mean, honestly, they're going to Flacco right now. They went to Mike White. I don't know if Zach Wilson

was a hundred percent healthy. If they'd have him in the lineup right now. He has regressed this season and they cannot get it going when he's in the lineup. I don't know how that's good for the young man and I don't know how that's good for the organization. So I'm going to trash the pick, but not necessarily Zach Wilson's fault. I'm going to trash the way they built this thing for him in year one. What do you think, Danny? Yeah, I kind of agree with you. I mean, they have a veteran quarterback now, but Joe Flacco is probably the last guy I would pick to be a mentor for the younger Danny yeah I kind of agree with you I think I mean they have a veteran quarterback now but like Joe Flacco is probably like the last guy I would pick to like be a mentor for the younger for the younger

generation kind of guy um I yeah I think it's just like it's pretty much exactly in line with what we were talking about with the Jags it's just like so hard to evaluate in a vacuum what he's done because their support system there is just so terrible their skill players are still coming along they're still rotating all these guys. They've got a lot of young players on offense. Their defense is terrible. I think the difference between Lawrence and Wilson picks is Lawrence was

a multi-year starter and had been in some big games, had played some very high-level competition. He'd done really well all along. Obviously, he had a couple bad games in college in the big-time games, but he'd been there. He'd done really well all along. I mean, obviously he took, he had a couple of bad games in college against in like the, you know, big time games, but he'd been there. He'd seen those games where Zach Wilson's coming from BYU. He hadn't had those types of, um, that type of experience. And I think he's like, he's trying to play catch up a lot more than Lawrence. I would

say just based on the speed of the game and, you know, trying to learn how to be a pro. I still, I'm bullish. Like he, Zach Wilson's made, he's flashed too, just like Lawrence. A couple of really nice throws. I would add, he had a joint practice with the Packers this summer and the Packers just ran the Jets up and down. But I spoke to sources in Green Bay. They're like, Jets are going to suck this year, but Zach Wilson's going to be awesome. That guy throws things and it's almost Aaron Rodgers. So the hope was there, but that was when he was a raw product. And I don't know what this year psychologically and physically will do to him because he threw four picks just about every start he's had.

And it's only gone backwards. Yikes. All right. Well, number three, Miami sitting there. Right instinct to trade out. I don't know if it was the right instinct to say two is our guy, but it was the right instinct to trade out

for what they got. Number 12 at a first and third in 2023. Ridiculous haul. San Fran moves up and the buzz is they're moving up to take Mac Jones. A couple of weeks pass. Now it's like, eh, Trey Lance might be in this. Shregs, what were you hearing at the time and how is it being spun now? Okay. So, and I've been able to unpack it a bunch since. I was solely in the camp and I was on national television every day saying,

you know, I think Mac is the guy from what I'm hearing, but there's a chance it's Trey Lance. In the final week, they went up to Trey Lance's pro day. They had a second pro day up in North Dakota. And I think they were just wowed. And like on the flight home, Shanahan and Lynch were like, we could do a lot of things here. Their dream situation is what we had Monday night, running the ball 40 times a game, running it down your throat, and then also having a mobile quarterback that you can add into that offense. If Kyle Shanahan could draw it up, I know Kyle, he would rather throw the ball 40, 10 times and run it 40 times than have

to do one of these shootouts. So the thought was, hey, Mack is great, but we're going to move up to three and we can make the decision later. When they made that trade, which was in early March, if I'm not mistaken, it wasn't for Mack Jones. It was, let's trade up there and then we can pick between Fields, Jones, or Lance, or even Wilson if he slips. I think at the end of the day, they went with Lance,

and they went with the mobility and the upside and the ability to play it out. But yes, there was a lot of love for Mac Jones in that building. I can assure you that. That was not just media running away with a narrative. And if you remember, Bill and Danny, and I was one of the guys, and Schefter was one of the guys, and we're like, Mac Jones is going to go to San Francisco. People were outraged.

They were like, no, that doesn't make sense. Fields. No, Mac Jones was strongly in the conversation. And I think a lot of that comes from what we heard within that San Francisco organization. And obviously, Schefter has connections to the Shanahans for years. But also, based on what the scouts were telling us, like, you know, San Francisco is built to win. Now, Mac Jones can win right now.

And as you're seeing with the Patriots, Mac Jones can do just that. Danny. Yeah. The Mac Jones thing worked out perfectly for him. And we knew that in the moment, this is the right team for him, right coaching staff.

They will bring him along perfectly. But a lot of people also thought the Niners were the right situation based on the kind of quarterbacks. He's basically on paper, a higher ceiling Garoppolo for what they like to do. Why do you think they decided that that wasn't the right fit for him? Do you think they just under-evaluated Mac or what do you think was going on? They got bullied by the media? No, I don't know. It's, it's so, it's fascinating. I think media or Twitter. Yeah, maybe Twitter. There was a lot of people

reporting that it was Mac. Like that was, you know, a well-known thing that that was going to be the pick. And then it sounds like they maybe changed their mind or just decided to go the other direction.

I think what Peter was saying is perfect. It's like they got caught by the siren song of like the versatility, the ability to like change the change the math of the defense with Lance as a runner. Like imagine theatility, the ability to change the math of the defense with Lance as a runner.

Imagine the upside, the ceiling. They probably bought into that because I was saying that too, honestly. Just the idea that they could design their run game around a guy who completely changes the math. He's one of the better runners at quarterback position in the draft.

All that stuff. Just the ceiling is so much more enticing. But then I think I was guilty of this. I'm guessing they were too. You lose track of just moving the football, moving the chains, having that experience. Exactly what I said with Trevor Lawrence, where Mac has been in big games. And he's seen it and he's polished and all that stuff. And so I think obviously hindsight's 20-20 like, I think that was kind of, they got caught by that siren song of just like the upside.

And, um, that's kind of when, what happened, I'm not writing off Lance yet, but I was gonna say, I don't think it's the wrong pick. Yeah, I don't. I think Lance once, you know, and I wrote this in my column for Fox today, today, and I'm getting a lot of pushback from Niners fans. Like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, slow down there. I'm not sure Lance is the quarterback next year. They still have Jimmy G under contract. And if it takes two years, I think they're willing to take two years. You look at Aaron

Rogers. It took him three years. They have the luxury of going with Garoppolo, but eventually Kyle Shanahan's dream offense. And yes, he'll have another year, whether they don't win another game all season, he'll have, he's got that leeway there. Trust me, um, is to see a mobile quarterback under center and doing things that they can do with that run game. I, I think Lance might still be the right pick. It's just, he's so young, so unpolished and played 17 games in college. Yeah. Well, and that's also could be why he's the wrong pick because he played 17 games from college and there's the upside downside thing where I think with Mac, Danny, you,

you liked Mac. You didn't, you didn't love him in the draft. I think you, you felt like there were certain things you didn't love. Has he surprised you with what, especially like that game he had against the Browns, which was just ridiculous.

Has he, has he just, did he have a higher ceiling than you expected? Yeah, I think so. mean i think i certainly underestimated him a little bit i i look back on my rate rankings i had him at 20 which i think was maybe a little bit higher than the consensus but not high enough clearly i think um and i think it was just it was exactly what we're just talking about like the upside like he

doesn't have the same athletic profile or big arm as some of these other quarterbacks. And so you get caught up in that stuff, but he's very polished. And I think the system that he's landed in is perfect for it. I think we talked about that right after the draft. This is great for him because he's got that offensive line. He's got that run game, the great coaching. The scheme that they've designed around him seems really smart. It's basically just making things easier on him. But he is capable of navigating in the pocket

and like making that stick. They're like that touchdown to Kendrick Bourne on Sunday was just such a great throw. How about the Hunter Henry pass on the sideline pass when he had two guys on him and floated over? I think, look, this is why the draft is so hard and this is why there will never be an exact way to figure it out. I think it goes for basketball, but especially football and especially quarterbacks.

There's things that he was doing this year that I don't know how you evaluate. Like, for instance, he's so fucking tough. He's taken at least 12 hits that were just like monster hits. That hit he took from Randy Gregory in the Dallas game, like that literally could have ended his season. He took another one last week, the first quarter against the Browns, but I think he's incredibly tough.

So there's one thing he, he has a calmness to him that you can see in college, but you don't know if it's going to translate to the pros. There's just no way to know. And then he's an incredible teammate, which I think you could have figured out if you did enough recon, if you're an NFL team.

You're doing your recon with Alabama. Now you don't know what the coaches are telling you. You don't know if you can 100% believe it. But he went into the Pats and he was immediately beloved and popular. From day one, he was hanging out with the defense as much as the offense he's hanging

out with the offensive line and he's just like a teammate and i think for for the belichick pats culture he's honestly the perfect pick like he and i don't know what his ceiling is but he's perfect for them the uh okay so it's interesting because he's like a tennis player growing up and i got i got you know everyone's like enough with the tennis because all during the pre-draft process i'm like this isn't the footwork it's not it's not sneaky athletic but there's definitely athleticism here yeah it comes from a tennis family and was like his dad was like a world champion tennis player all this stuff but here's this kid country club looking kid was like a little like like a kid model like has this blonde hair he doesn't have a great body you see the pictures and you're like okay this kid i'm gonna hate this blonde hair. He doesn't have a great body. You see the pictures and you're like, okay, this kid, I'm going to hate this kid. And yet we had Jalen Waddle on our show pre-draft

and we're like Tua or Mac Jones. And you would think the easy thing is to say, oh, I love both those guys. And he's like, no, Mac's my guy. We're like, what? But like all these players, and I don't, it's not a, it's not a, hey, you know, don't judge a book by its cover, but these guys who have played with Mac Jones, both as an Alabama player, but now as a Patriots player, guys that are on the defensive side of all, they're like, no, Mac is a dog. Like we love this guy. So I think there's this, like, you see this player and this howdy doody look and the walk at the draft where he comes up in the ill fooding suit or whatever.

And you're like, Oh, this guy's going to be like some Richie Cunningham, but he isn't. He's a dog and he takes hits and he's tough and he wins games. Well, it's very similar. I was watching, I broke down. I watched man in the arena last night. I watched the first episode. I have to say it was really good. I was shocked. I really enjoyed it. And you know, they, they really dive into some of the Brady stuff. And you watch Brady even scrambling that season, that first season he was a starter. And he's so much more athletic and coordinated now. Obviously, he's worked on it for 20 years. But it's really that 2001 Brady really reminded me of Mac in a lot of ways. A little bit clumsy, weirdly good footwork, incredibly tough,

good teammate, all that stuff. And it was hard not to see the parallels, especially with the way that season progressed with how this season could hopefully progress. All right. So Atlanta's at four and they take pits. Yeah.

Who's awesome. Belichick. I don't know if you noticed, but Belichick pulled his pants down and pleasured himself about Pitts. He said he's in between Tony Gonzalez and Julio Jones, or a combination. Pretty good.

Belichick will, like three times a year, he'll just do a monologue about a guy on the other team where he's just got... I don't know whether he's trying to season them so they won't try as hard during the game or whatever, but anyway, he did it for Pitts. Listen, it's hard for me to kill the Pitts pick even now because he's amazing.

He's clearly, if he stays healthy, going to be one of the most productive tight ends of all time. He is on that Gonzalez, Kelsey, Gronk. He's just going to be one of those guys if he doesn't get hurt. And they already have a quarterback who looked terrible last week, but for the most part, whatever. It's like, yeah, you could take Fields there. Does Fields have more value than Pitts?

Maybe. Maybe. I don't know. It's hard. I can't kill him on it. I would have taken Fields there if I, you know, in the moment. And I think it again, now I think fields just feels like the right pick, but I don't think you can kill them on it. Right.

I like the pig still. I think so. I, it is a question of whether they take the quarterback and sort of reset and start over at that position, or maybe they believe that Matt Ryan is the guy for multiple years here. Like,

I think we can get a little bit ahead of ourselves and say, oh, this quarterback is too old now. We got to move on. We got to pass the torch or whatever. When we've seen how long Brady's playing, I don't know how long Matt Ryan's going to play, but he's still passing at a pretty quality rate. He still looks good to me. The support system around him isn't great, honestly.

With Ridley out, his pass-catching weapons have been whittled down to like pits and quarter L Patterson. So how about gauge who everybody picked up in their fantasy last week? And he had like zero catches. Yeah. They has no receivers. And so I, I,

I still think I'm kind of now like, again, it's hindsight 2020, but now I'm feeling like they feel confident. They can keep building around Matt Ryan for a few more years and maybe do that instead of completely resetting and putting all your chips into the Justin Fields thing. If it doesn't work out, then the team is set back five years or four years or whatever. So I think that's what they're doing.

And I don't actually hate the pick. And Pitts has been honestly better than advertised. What he's been doing is incredible. When you add in the context that rookie tight ends hardly ever do anything like he's running routes against cornerbacks on the outside and beating them. And so like what he's doing and he's like 20, he's like he just turned 21. So I think he's going to be really, really good in the league for a long time. And anytime you can take a player of that caliber, that blue chip type player where he's going to be a foundation piece for you. I think that you can't really knock them for that. Yeah. A couple of notes on it. I remember talking to Arthur Smith before the draft at the time it was off the record.

And he was like, what are you hearing from San Francisco? What are you hearing from, you know, who's at five, what they're going to be doing, just getting information. And I'm usually kind of close to the vest with it,

but I'm like, I think the top three picks are quarterback. He's like, are you sure San Francisco is not going pit? And I'm like, really? I'm like, they already have Kittle and they just traded up two first are quarterback. He's like, are you sure San Francisco is not going Pitt? And I'm like, really? I'm like, they already have Kittle. And they just traded up two first round picks. He's like, Pitts is that good, dude.

Like Pitts is that good where I could see them trading up and Kyle just being like, give me the best player that I've seen in the draft from a skill position in years. And they were happy that he fell to four. You know, Mike Ditka has the record or something for most receiving yards by a rookie tight end. It's about a thousand. I think Pitts is on pace to smash it already. And you don't look at it and say, oh, Kyle Pitts is tearing up the league. But for what all the things Danny said, for being so young and for what they've had to deal with, with Ridley being out of the lineup and kind of going through what he's going through,

and then Pitts being a number one at age 20, I think they're happy with what they're getting. I'm okay with it. I think Fields would have been really fun for there, but then you have to figure out what to do with Matt Ryan. They had some salary cap stuff with Matt Ryan that would have been complicated. So I think it's all right. I'm also okay with Jamar Chase at number five for Cincy.

I think the big question in the moment was like, you guys can't block. Why don't you take a left tackle? There's two premium left tackles. I kind of thought they should have taken Sewell. I don't feel like there's a tradeback possibility for them because really, if you're going to trade back,

you'd have to go all the way back to 12. And if you go back to 12, you might not get a receiver who they clearly wanted. And then Chase has been awesome. And now it's to the point where I think teams are playing them. We'll see what the Raiders do this week because the Raiders were so dumb against the Chiefs last week.

Who knows what they're capable of. It seems like teams are just like, alright, we're not going to let Chase beat us and the other guys can knock themselves out. But Dan, are you good with the Chase pick? Yeah. I mean, Pitts and Chase were billed as two generational prospects. And honestly, both of them,

I think have lived up to that billing so far. Chase looks like a top five receiver already. Like full stop. He has been incredible. He's on pace to like set all kinds of rookie records. He, like, it's so funny, especially compared to like the narratives in the preseason where he like had a few drops in the preseason and all that stuff.

Like, he was rusty. He didn't play for a year. And now he's come out and he's fixed exactly what the Bengals offense needed to fix, which was give them a vertical explosive element down the field. I think I saw, like, after, like, five games, they already eclipsed the number of, like, 20-plus yard passes that they'd had the year before. He had a bunch of touchdowns on those plays. It's exactly what they're doing at LSU.

So they have that built-in chemistry. It's hard to knock this pick. I mean, I don't think, honestly, picking Sewell there, because Sewell's been good too. It wouldn't have been a bad pick for them. But this hasn't been the situation where it's either or. I think both picks would have been really good for their offense, and I think Chase is really working out for them.

And I have no problem with this at all. Shriggs. Great pick. Shriggs, Chase or Jefferson. You could have one of them for the next 12 years. Who do you want? I would go Chase. I would go Chase. I feel like Jefferson's really good, really reliable. He's going to be a number one receiver for 10 years, but I think Chase could be like, you know, top three receiver in the league. He's shown that many flashes. And I know, I know that, uh, you know, it came down to offensive tackle or Chase and that offense tackle could have been Slater. It could have been Sewell in that final week.

They're like, what are we doing? We've got a young offensive coach. We've got a young quarterback. Let's give him the guy that he knows from LSU. So there's no regrets on their end. And I couldn't ever knock that. I think he's been really good. He was the AFC and the, I mean, he was the NFL's Offensive Rookie of the Month

the first month of the season, and he's been only better since then. I love Jefferson, too. I think both of those guys... I think there is a world in which those are just the best two receivers in the league for like five years down the road. All right.

We were relatively tame for those first five picks. When we come back from the break, all hell is about to break loose with the 2021 draft. And I don't think I fully realized how idiotic things got until I went back to do the research. Take a break, come back. How can you be sure your child is making the right decision when choosing a university?

The smart approach is to look at the facts, like the fact that York U graduates have a 90% employer satisfaction rate. That's because across its three GTA campuses, York U's programs are strategically designed to prepare students for a meaningful career and long-term success. Join us in creating positive change at yorku.ca slash write the future. All right, coming back. Number six. Here's where we get our wonk on with the 2021 draft. Philly says we want to move. We want to get out of this pick. We're going to move back. We have the sixth pick. Miami goes, well, we'd love to move up. I don't know why we want to move up. We just made an incredible trade. We're going to move up. We're going to give you number 12, number 123, and a 2022 first round pick. You give us six and number 156, we got a deal. Miami moves up. Miami has all these other picks. And guys, I don't know why football doesn't work this way.

In the NBA, we'd be like, all right, here's the trade. We're going to keep the better pick in 2022. So we have the Niners pick. We have the Miami pick. You'll get the lesser pick. Miami's like, here's our pick. We're going to be, we're going to win 11 games this year. 110 last year. Here we go. Take it. And now that could be a top five pick.

All right. First question, Danny, trading up to six to take Jalen Waddle. Does that make, did that make sense to you at the time? And how bad does it look now? No, it didn't make sense to me too. I think I even wrote that in my draft grades article. I was just like, this process, I don't love the process, especially for as good and dynamic as Waddle is. If you're going to trade up for a future first to get a receiver in the first

round, it better be Calvin Johnson. You know what I mean? It has to be a big alpha guy who can dominate a game at all three levels in the red zone. So if it was Pitts, he would have been good with it. I would have been more okay with it, for sure. Yeah. But trading up, and again, I love Waddle.

This isn't necessarily a knock on Waddle, but it's like the style of receiver that he is. And especially, it's improved over the last few games, but his A dice, the average depth of target, was extremely low. It's basically just these screens and things like that. It's like, this guy's not changing your offense in the same

way a guy like Jamar Chase has for the Bengals. I don't know if that's necessarily how they're going to use him going forward forever or whatever, but I think process-wise, it didn't make any sense to me at the time, and now it even looks worse because the Dolphins are bad. And this right now is the

fifth overall pick. Right. And they're playing the Jets this week, so that could get a little better. Schrags, why don't we use protections in the NFL like we do with the NBA? Why don't we do top 10 protected picks or it rolls over to the next year if it falls in the top 10? Does the NFL not know about this stuff?

It might not be allowed, but we have this weird wonky one with the Colts now where if he plays 75 75 of the snaps yeah that colts pick you know goes to the eagles there's some stuff like that but you're right if you have multiple picks why not say hey you get the lesser of our two picks i i'll go back to this one though um the dolphins envision themselves to be a couple players away they thought they were going to be competitive this year. And I could tell you this on record now, like they had Waddle ranked above chase on their wide receivers board. They saw Waddle as their number one guy. And one of the reasons they loved Waddle was his toughness and what he represented. He played, came back from the ankle injury last

year and played in that national championship game. And they're like, we haven't even seen him play healthy. Also, I think Waddle has been really good this year he's the number one wide receiver i think he leads all the rookies and receptions like he's been good it's just that hey if you're going to trade next year's first round pick to danny's point like i almost need you to be unbelievable i don't know if there's any wide receiver you drop in that situation in miami quarterback the only reason so that's the other fork is they could have just taken Fields. Yeah.

They could have traded up, taken Fields and said, we now have Fields and Tua. We have the two best possible assets. That would almost be like a Philadelphia 76ers process type thing, right? We, like we,

we're building assets. We don't know what we're gonna do with these assets, but here's some assets. And I don't know. I didn't see enough from Tua last year to think that he was the guy. And I just think Fields, higher upside, higher ceiling.

And, you know, obviously when you take Tua over Herbert, you're terrified to just admit you were wrong after a year. But think about Arizona. They admitted they were wrong with Josh Rosen in a year. They're like, fuck it. We took Kyler. Sometimes you just got to admit you're wrong. And I'll tell you, as somebody who's in the AFCs with the Dolphins, I'm so glad it worked out the way it did. I'm so glad they donots did in free agency and they actually spent money and they were like, let's fill some holes. I'd be like, well, what about the Patriots? I mean,

it was a unanimous thing out there, August to September that the Dolphins were the second best team. It's whether the Dolphins are going to compete with the Bills. Dolphins are a distant third right now. Yeah. Distant, distant. All right. So none of that worked out and then Philly moves too far back and might not get the receiver. We'll cover them again in a second. Number seven is Detroit. Detroit takes Sewell, left tackle. Everybody likes the fit.

Always great to have a franchise left tackle. There's a piece of this trade, though, where they don't have a quarterback. And you have Fields sitting on the board. And now you watch the Lions, and Go don't have a quarterback and you have fields sitting on the board and now you watch the lions and golf is just a catastrophe. I mean, he's even worse for Detroit than I think any of us ever could have expected. So now you got Detroit going into next year. They're probably going to have the first pick in the draft, the draft that has no franchise quarterback. And they could have taken one, Danny, right here.

They could have taken Justin Fields in this spot. And now they have a left tackle to block for a quarterback that they don't have. I felt like such a broken record. I almost felt like I was taking crazy pills during the draft time because I'm like,

take Fields. Take Fields. Yeah, you have no quarterback. Why are you not taking Fields? And obviously, Fields has had an up and down rookie season, but I think you're seeing the traits are there for sure for this guy to develop into a high-level quarterback. And now it just is like,

especially when you're watching Goff, he's legitimately maybe the worst starter in the NFL. He can't push the ball down the field. He can't deal with pressure. Anytime he has to come off of his first read, it's a catastrophe. I think Tim Boyle might start over him this week, and it might not just be because of injury. I'm being serious.

It's like what we were talking about with Mike White and Zach Wilson, where it's like, ah, just, he's injured. We'll keep him on the bench for a while. Listen, I don't want to slander Jared Goff too much because he won me a Super Bowl, and I'm always going to treasure and admire that guy. But man, is he bad. And when did the Stafford trade happen after the draft though, right?

Or was it before? No, the Stafford trade happened in March. Oh, yeah, yeah. So they didn't have a quarterback. And also, why are you taking Goff back in that trade? We all kind of accepted that piece too. And it really did seem like Detroit thought he was salvageable for some reason,

which is weird, but Schrags, they could add fields. They could have taken Mac Jones. Could have had Mac. Yeah. Could have had a lot of fields or Mac Jones. Anyway,

classic lines. This is why they suck. And they haven't won a playoff game in 30 years. Well, their big debate was, was right there at seven. Was it Sewell or Slater? Right.

Sewell. Look, the way they look at it is complete rebuild. Let's get the best player on the board. And Sewell played a little bit left. Last week played right tackle and shut down TJ. Watch. So it was good.

We're not anti. So it's fine. It's not winning on the board. And those guys, they've got zero wins. You can't win a game based on the strength of how good your offensive tackle is. I'm sorry. You need a quarterback.

Well, let's, we can have the same conversation for Carolina. Number eight, because they didn't win a game based on the strength of how good your offensive tackle is. I'm sorry, you need a quarterback. Well, we could have the same conversation for Carolina at number eight because they didn't have a quarterback either. Door A was just take Justin Fields or Mack Jones. Door B was take a cornerback and then trade a number two for

Sam Darnold. So basically, they end up with JC Horn and Sam Darnold, but door B is Justin Fields, keep your number two. I'm going to say I like the door B a little bit more. Call me nuts.

Call me crazy. That's not hindsight either. To me, the Detroit thing made a little more sense because they're just a few years away. You know what I mean? Carolina, as we've seen, and this is something I talked about

a little bit in the offseason, like they have a really good young defense that has taken a big jump this year. One of the better defenses, honestly, in the NFL, especially considering how young they are. And good skill position players, DJ Moore, Christian McCaffrey, like you're ready.

Get a quarterback in there, and you're ready to go. And it's just like, I don't know. I think the GM, maybe it was the Denver GM said he was trying to get a franchise cornerback. I'm like, no, that's not a thing. Get a quarterback. It doesn't matter. They thought they got Sam Darnold at 60 cents on the dollar that they could win games with Sam Darnold, the whole thing.

It was a Canadian dollar. I spoke to someone who interviewed for that job, did not get that job. And his thing was like, when we came in there, it was, all right, what would you do with our quarterback position? We got Teddy at the moment, but what would you do? And this was back then. He was like, I would focus in on Trey Lance, Mac Jones, or Justin Fields. And you take them at eight and then you figure out those three can all win games and you go. The Darnold trade came about and it was like the Jets really did. At the time, if Darnold was anything this season, the Jets got fleece. He's not. He's injured and now it's like a waste. But hindsight, you could say, gosh, we got Darnold a number three

overall pick who has been in the worst situation in the Jets situation. And now if we just get a little bit more than Teddy, we can compete. That was the hope. They hope that, you know, also JC Horn, top corner, just about on everyone's board by the end of the draft process, that they got Darnold and Horn in the draft. Unfortunately, neither Darnold or Horn is going to play a role this season for the Panthers. Well, you also think, as it turns out,

we'll get to what the Bears ended up trading to move up into the Panthers. Well, you also think, as it turns out, we'll get to what the Bears ended up trading to move up into the giant spot. That just has more value than JC Horn and Sam Darnold for a number two in that pick. And we'll cover that in a second. The other thing, Danny, just quickly, I felt this at the time just because everybody thought Sertan was a little bit better than Horn by a smidge, but I don't think anybody had Horn over Sertan. And then you watch this season, Sertan's a beast. Like he's incredible watching him go toe-to-toe. Who is he going toe-to-toe against?

Oh, Devontae Smith. Yeah, that was a great matchup. That was awesome. That was fun to watch. So it's hard for me to kill Sertan at number nine because Denver takes him over. They were in the same spot. They could have taken Fields.

They could have taken Mack. I think he's a better player than Horn. And yet, Denver, you also could have had Mack Jones or Justin Fields. What are you doing? I think this is a broken record again. Take Fields. What are you doing?

Just take him. He's right there. It's the exact, exact same argument I just used with the Panthers. You have good defense. You have good skill players. You've got the foundation in place. Just drop a quarterback in there

and you're going to be a very good contender, I think. And, you know, they just decided they wanted to do it. But that's another mis-evaluation right there. Like, well, we can get

Teddy Bridgewater and we'll have a franchise corner. Oh, I know what Shriggs is going to say. God damn you, Shriggs. You played a long game. This general manager's got aiggs Is this a Rogers point? Yeah they got a six year deal

Six year deal with George Payton He's been waiting forever to leave Minnesota for the right job He gets a six year deal he's paid as well as any GM in the league he's like the most coveted GM candidate in years Goes to Denver and he's like I have six years of security If he doesn't love Justin Fields Or Mac Jones and he knows Aaron

Rogers and his Aaron Rogers, his fiance lives in Boulder in the off season. Like, Oh, I don't know. Maybe that's the play. So I would think you take the best, but Sertan's great. He's going to be their starter for 10 years at corner. He's gonna be an all pro the whole thing. And then this year, let's see what happens in the off season at quarterback. And also maybe he's in the Rogers trade. I think what Denver did is way more defensible than what Carolina did. Carolina taking the slightly inferior cornerback and then trading a second for Darnold.

That's just really bad because their team is good. They have some blue chippers on both sides of the ball. I don't think they were that far away. Even with the corpse of Cam these last six games, they still might be able to, I don't know, go nine and eight, 10 and seven, make it.

All right, now we get to the Dallas is at 10. Now the two quarterback prospects are just pulsating like trade for me, trade for me. And Philly says, fuck it. Here's number 12 and number 83. We'll move up two spots. You could have the number 83 pick. Dallas is like, great. We weren't taking either of these quarterbacks. That sounds awesome.

We're going to take Michael Parsons. So Philly moves up. They take Javante Smith. They easily could have taken Fields or Mack, who is better than Jalen Hurts, unless you watched Jalen Hurts last week and he looked like Willie Beeman in the last half hour of any game on Sunday.

It was incredible. I still think they should have taken a quarterback there or just stayed at 12 and taken a quarterback and not even given up number 83. I do like Smith, though. He's good. He's really good. Yeah. So what do you think of that one

seven months later, Danny? I don't have a big problem with it. I think the difference between this trade and the Miami trade is they gave what 83rd is like a that's like a third rounder. And so that's not like a huge, huge thing. And I was always higher on Smith slightly anyway. So I like the trade. Generally speaking, like my rule is don't trade up in the first round unless it's for a quarterback. But this was like a relatively small move. So I like it. I think it's going to work out for him. I think Devontae Smith is going to be trade up in the first round unless it's for a quarterback but this was like a relatively small move so i like i think it's gonna work out for him i think davante smith is

gonna be a star in the league he's already showing the ability to you know get open against veterans he's just so smooth slippery type runner or type route runner um and i i think at the time i too i was also just like yeah it probably would make sense for them to take a quarterback here but they're also just getting off of this like giant cluster of a quarter quarterback situation yeah it was like I didn't really blame them for just going a different direction seeing what they got in Hurts

and give him it give him a year to kind of like prove that he can be the guy the trajectory that Hurts is going on it kind of feels like he might be the guy so I don't know we'll see I've changed my opinion on him seven times this year and I look forward to doing it three more times. What do you think Shriggs? I think that, you know, the, the, the interesting one is they traded within the division with

Dallas, which you never thought they would do to jump the giants who likely were going to take Devante Smith with that pick and they go and they jump the giants, they get Devante Smith. But the irony of it all is if they had just stayed put, they might've gotten Michael Parsons. And I think that would have been a really good player for Philly also. And he was a Pennsylvania guy and the whole thing. And it's like, all right, so you got a wide receiver. Devante Smith is very good and he's had huge games and he's in a total pro like this guy eats breeds football. He's not a big talker. He's a

great wide receiver for them, but they took a wide receiver in the first round last year in Jalen Rager also. So I don't know. If anything, I would have said not Fields because I don't know if Fields or Mack would have necessarily worked with a young quarterback. Jalen Hurts already there, who they wanted to see for a season. But I would have taken Parsons maybe instead. And that's kind of revisionist history too. I am of the Danny school. I'm not trading up unless the draft is about to drop. And I think in this draft, 14, 14 guys in that top tier. And then it, then it, then it goes off.

And the same case in basketball too. The NBA draft that we had Shangoon at number 16 was kind of the last guy, and then it dropped. So if you're moving up two spots and give it up number 83, I have to feel like there's a drop-off. There wasn't a drop-off here because you had Smith still on the board, you had Fields, you had Mack, you had Parsons, and you had Slater. Slater. And all of those guys had real value. So I didn't really understand the trade-up. I thought Dallas played that perfectly

because they got the guy they're probably taking anyway. They pick up a free pick. Since Chicago says, well, fuck this. We haven't had a quarterback since Jim McMahon. We're going to move up. Hey, Giants, you interested? The Giants are like, all right. Another year of dating dimes.

What are you offering? They end up getting number 20, number 164, and a first and third round pick in 2022. It's a haul. For the Bears to move up nine spots. The Bears are going to do that a hundred times out of a hundred.

It also puts a big magnifying glass on teams like Carolina and Denver a little bit earlier in Detroit, because that was the price just to move up to number 11. What would it have been the price to move up to seven, eight, nine, and you still could end up with your guys,

I guess moving back to 20 in a draft that was really 14 to 16 guys, I guess would be the one thing, but the, the giants didn't care because they're getting so much for him. The Bears didn't care. I actually really like this trade from both sides. I don't think either one would have regrets. Shrakes, what do you think?

Any regrets either side? Well, let's see what the Giants do with that pick. And if Gettleman's making it, they have to nail that because the Giants traded all those picks for Odell. And at the time, everyone was great. Dexter Lawrence hasn't been great. The other player they got in that draft hasn't great. Uh, you know, Jabril Peppers has been fine, but he's injured quite a bit. So it's like, all that's great to trade back and get

the draft capital, but you need to actually pick the right players too. For the bears, this was like, all right, Nagy and pace were brought on for another year. And it was like, we're all in and they, they're putting their money where their mouths are. Like they weren't going to sit by and idly watch this thing go by as Justin Fields slipped. So, I mean, you could argue that bears would have probably thrown in another third, another first round pick just to get fields. Like, I don't know why the price is any different for him versus Trey Lance. Yeah. And, and I think for the bears, like now that we look at it week 11, like, I think they're happy with that trade. And if you look at the giants, it's well, let's wait and see because Michael Parsons would have been great on the

giants as well. You know? And it would have been a lot of teams could have used a Devante Smith right there. So yes, I like what they got. I, I do like Tony,

but they also, they easily could have liked Tony. There were good, two good cornerbacks in the twenties, Danny that I think have now one of them Farley got hurt already, but I think people like him and then knew some on the Browns. I like that I think have... Now, one of them, Farley got hurt already, but I think people like him. And then Newsome on the Browns,

I like too. He's good. And those are guys... The Giants just could have moved back and taken a cornerback and they like the upside of Tony, obviously. But I like that. I think that's a good trade

for both sides. I agree. I agree. All right. So now we go to 12. Dallas takes Parsons. 13. Now we're in like that... Now, Dallas, you could have argued, could have maybe traded back if somebody loved Mac. But it gets to the point of who's trading up. Everybody either has their quarterback or has the mistake they think is their quarterback. The teams that were left on the board other than New England at 15 for Mac were Miami at 18. If they wanted to move back up Washington at 19 giants at 20,

they could have moved back up, take a Mac. And the real threat to the Pats was new Orleans at 28. So Belichick sitting there and it's not this similar sorry Danny earmuffs cover yours for a second not this similar to 35 seconds left in the Super Bowl when there's chaos on the Seattle sideline

and everyone's waiting for Belichick to call timeout and he he sees something on the other end he sees some chaos that he feels like

might be an advantage he just sits there he's like we're gonna get this guy this is the draft's gonna shake out the right way. Parsons at 12. Slater at 13,

which was a great pick for the Chargers. That was one of the better value picks. They're not trading out of that. But now you have Minnesota at 14. And watching the draft, I was worried Minnesota was just going to say, Cousins sucks. Let's take back Jones.

Yeah. It really seemed like, oh, this is in play. And then maybe either trade Kirk Cousins sucks. Let's take back Jones. It really seemed like, oh, this is in play. And then maybe either trade Kirk Cousins or you just have them for a year. You get rid of them. Trade. And then we see on the ticker, the Jets are trading up. Oh, well, they're not

taking a quarterback. We're getting back Jones. This is amazing. And the Jets, they gave up a lot to move up for Elijah Barrett Tucker, who was another offensive lineman. 23, 66, and 86 for 14 and 143. That's a hefty price for the third best offensive lineman. I wonder, could the Saints have topped that and tried to get Mac Jones?

Could they have done 28 in a first next year and something else? Maybe Minnesota didn't want to move out of the top 25. I don't know. But it does feel like New Orleans could have trumped that. The Jets loved Vera Tucker so much so that I was hearing about that from their building in March and April.

And it was like, all right. And they thought, and he's been good. He's been really good. Like they're fine with him, but he's a guard, you know, he's a guard.

And when they got him, there was fist pumps. It was, we got our guy, we got Wilson and Vera Tucker. Like that's a home run. And maybe it will be, but to now look at the draft and be like the jets traded all that capital and

the rest of the NFL, let that happen. And they did it for an offensive guard. And Mac Jones slips to 15, who's now going to most likely be starting in a playoff game. It's incomprehensible that that could happen. Man in the arena to Mac Jones in 2040. Sequel ESPN Plus even exists. Well, the Jets move up. New Orleans does nothing. Maybe they tried. I think there were a lot of reports that they tried. But when you're at number 28, it's just tough.

And the Pats, Mac Jones falls to them at 15. And a lot of it makes sense. But some of it doesn't make sense. So if we go through the 15 teams we just listed. Danny, who should hate themselves the most for this draft? Who should have

the most loathing, resentment, anger, depression? Who's number one in your opinion? I mean, it has to be the Jets,

doesn't it? I think like, obviously, it's way too early to like actually answer this question. But the opportunity cost from being at number two, especially seeing like the fifth best quarterback is being is,

is good. You know what I mean? Um, the opportunity costs from not trading back there. Also, I never liked the process. And again, it's just, it's the process.

It's not the player. I don't like the process of trading up in the first round. If it's not for a quarterback, they traded up, got a guard, a really good guard, but you're a rebuilding team that has a lot of missing pieces. Your defense sucks and you're giving up second and third round picks, which could be building blocks for the future to get that player. It's just bad process, I think. And I said that at the time. I know that a lot of Jets fans do not feel that way, but I think

if you look at it dispassionately, rationally, the draft is a crapshoot, and the more darts you have to throw at the board, the better you're going to be in the long run, just straight up. And so, number one, taking Wilson, who still obviously has a chance to develop into a really good quarterback,

but right now what we've seen hasn't been super promising. Yeah. They had the opportunity to trade back and just get a bounty of picks there. They could have had the same trade. They could have gotten Mack later or whatever. You know what I mean?

Obviously, this is way too early to actually answer this question. But that's my answer as of right now. Shriggs, I have three finalists for this question. I think the Jets, Danny, laid out the case. I think how Carolina sitting there at eight where they don't get the best cornerback.

They take the second best cornerback. They do the Darnold thing. They don't get a quarterback. Now they're in the Cam Newton era again. And the fact that they actually have a good team in a conference that only has four, maybe five playoff teams. And they actually could have been maybe an impact playoff team.

And they just botched it. That would be my second choice. I want to change my answer. Cause that's actually better. It's really tough. Well, and then you can't leave out the lions who end up with a left tackle and end up with no quarterback.

And now they have the first pick probably in a draft with no quarterbacks. And they just could have taken Justin Fields. And you see how Fields, what he means to the Bears fans already. It's like between this and the Bulls. Thank God we launched the Jason Goff podcast. What a time to launch that. But that would be my top three. Who do you pick, Shrakes?

You know, there's two other teams I'd submit. And the first one is the 49ers. And I was going and doing flips about how Trey Lance eventually will be the guy, but you know, they also traded two future first round picks to get up there. So if you're saying right now, what would you rather have Matt Jones and two first round picks or Trey Lance? It's hard to say with a straight face. Oh, give me the Trey Lance.

Um, I agree. You know, I think Seth Wickersham reported, and you've had him on in the book, that like the Niners and Patriots almost did a Garoppolo trade. I've heard it differently, that it was kind of just Bill fishing around and seeing like, well, what do you like?

Who do you like? I think if the Niners, who were at 12 originally, had stayed put and not traded two future first round picks and got Mac Jones at 12. I think that would have been a really interesting scenario. And then next year they have a first round pick in the year after that. Now they're kind of pot committed and we'll see what happens. The other team is the Dolphins who you mentioned, who traded up from 12 to six and gave up a first round pick to get what might end up being the third or fourth best wide receiver in the draft. Wow. Yeah, that's good. I mean, especially hindsight now with them potentially losing out on a top five, top 10 pick. Yeah. And the big wild card,

which you guys have sort of mentioned, and I do draft stuff for the NFL network and Danny, of course you do it and Bill, you follow it. There isn't that quarterback prospect coming up in the draft. So like this was the year. And of course, someone's going to come out next year and be a great rookie. And trust me, as someone who works the combine in the draft, I'll hype the shit out of all these guys because that's what we do. But it's not viewed as that quarterback rich draft class that we had last year where there was legitimately five starters in the first 15 picks. I also wonder who is San Francisco bidding against when they're trying to move up to three when nobody even had a consensus number three and everybody had a feeling. They didn't want to be Delta quarterback. They wanted to pick their quarterback. And

at the end of the day, it was going to be Mack or it was going to be Lance and they picked Lance, but they didn't want to sit at 12 and be like, all four of the others are off the board. So here you go. Here's Justin Fields. And I know you don't love him, but you're strapped to him. I think that trade's sitting there 12 hours before the draft. Miami's grabbing all that stuff. You're getting two extra first round picks and you're not even moving out of an absolutely loaded top 12 like you're doing that every time.

All right. Danny Kelly, thanks for joining us. Shiggs and I are going to stay and do some million dollar picks. We can hear Danny on the excellent fantasy football show with our guys, our guys, Craig and the other Danny, the lesser Danny. Do we call him lesser Danny at this point?

What do we call him? I refuse. I would not do that. He's younger. Danny younger, Danny younger, more energetic. I just,

I'm giving him shit because he, Danny Heifetz got a, honestly a little aggro during the Yankees Red Sox during that three weeks when the Yankees were doing well, he started like kind of trash talking a little bit on text, forgetting that we've owned the Yankees for the entire 21st century. So anyway, say hi to Heifetz for, tell him I really enjoyed the playing game. All right. We'll be back with Shrakes.

All right. We're doing Million Dollar Picks. Little wrinkle today. We're taping this right now. We just finished with Danny. It is almost noon Pacific time. We're putting this podcast up before the Thursday night game, partly to promote the Music Box documentary on HBO a little bit,

but partly because, Shras, we need a win. We do. We're still up for the year, but we're only up $114,000. Not what our fans expect after the incredible playoff run we had where we won over $5 million in five weeks, basically. So I wanted to actually jump on the Pats as part of what we want to do this week. We can tease them. The Pats are playing

tonight. They're in Atlanta. We have stayed away from Thursdays in general. I've stayed away from them from a betting standpoint. They're a crap shoot. You have no time to prepare. You never know with the injuries. I'm a full believer in this Pats team. I want to keep riding them because I still feel like there's some value. And I think we can tease them. Pat's six and a half with the Bills minus seven against the Colts. Now,

there's a little Colts momentum right now. Yeah. No, they run the ball well. I'm going to throw some water on it. I think the Colts are the good-bad team. Okay. I think every year we have the bad team that's good against the other bad teams.

But when they play a good team, they're suddenly not as good. They've lost to Seattle, the Rams, the Titans twice in Baltimore. Here's who they beat. Miami, Houston, San Francisco, Jacksonville, the Jets. That's how they got to five and five.

Yeah, Jonathan Taylor, I get it. Buffalo, third in rushing yards allowed. More importantly, Wentz on the road. What are we doing? What are we doing? It's Carson Wentz. He's on the road. He's going to go into Buffalo and beat the Bills?

Carson Wentz? Carson Wentz? Can I serve as a counter to your argument? Just to put this out there. Let's hear it. This is why we talk it out. The mighty Buffalo Bills are 6-3. Their wins this season.

No, it's not good. It's not good. Miami, Washington, Houston, Kansas City, Miami, New York. Their losses. Tennessee, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Miami, New York, their losses, Tennessee, Pittsburgh, Jacksonville. Money line, let's go. Let's do it for the teaser. But I'm not going to hold who have the Colts beaten up against the Bills because they've beaten even less. It's a very fair point. I think the Bills win the game, which is why I want to put in the tease. I would not be surprised if it was close.

I would not be surprised if the Colts led at some points. But ultimately, if this is a fourth quarter game and it's close, I like Josh Allen against Carson Wentz. And if Carson Wentz costs us money, so be it. I think he does two ridiculously dumb things a game. I also think Pittman's really good too. And I think he's that receiver class, you know, he's leapfrogged a couple of guys and that thing. So, but you know, if you load up on Taylor and you try to control Pittman and you just make Wentz try to spread

it around to everybody else, I think that's doable. But I also wonder like Buffalo's kind of due for a good game against somebody who's at least decent, right? Because I do think, I think the Pats are actually, I think the Pats are a more well-rounded team and I think they can go toe-to-toe and beat them potentially twice. But I also think the Bills haven't really shown in a game yet what they are. Have you seen them play a kitchen sink game yet against anybody? They, they, they kicked the crap out of the chiefs in Arrowhead, which was a big one. Um, I also would say they've got the number one defense in the league, but again, they got fat off of 40 to nothing win against the Texans. They got fat over two wins on the jets. I'm throwing that out. That Jacoby Brissett game in week two or three. Yeah. Right. Week two. Yeah. Their point differential is blows everyone else out in the league. Buffalo's D is really good. I think Josh Allen's due for that monster game.

This is the one to do it. Let's go. Let's go with Buffalo. I think they win. I don't know if it's a 28-10 type thing. I think the Colts are friskier, but I have a lot of issues with the Colts as a close fourth quarter team. Frank Reich,

we've seen some really weird stuff with him, especially late in games. Not sure about their special teams. Who's their field goal kicker this week? Blankenship. Yeah. Blankenship's out. It's like a backup du jour.

Um, I think it's Badgley still. Yeah. Yeah. The bills. It's all heading toward that first bills, Pat's game. I don't the Bills, I can't imagine the Pats beating the Falcons, the Bills losing this game, and suddenly the Pats are in first place before we even get to, the Bills take care of it. So we're marking them down. Next one, I think you feel less strongly about than I do. Saints-Eagles. Stay away. I don't know anything about these two teams. We've been wrong every week with these two teams.

Yeah, that's why... You know what? That's why I like it. Saints plus two over the Eagles. A couple things. Saints have Buffalo and Dallas the two weeks after this. Okay. They kind of can't lose this game.

You're looking at three straight losses and you're out of the playoff picture, potentially, if you lose the Buffalo lose this game. You're looking at three straight losses and you're out of the playoff picture potentially with, if you lose the Buffalo and Dallas game. So in a weird way, it's a must win game. The Jalen Hurts bandwagon has filled up to an alarming degree. And I don't know if I trust it. I think there are a lot of people like Jalen Hurts. He's good. I think he's been all over the map this year. He's really good against Denver. Is that going to continue this week? Not sure. The Trevor Simeon thing, which I'm

guilty of too, where it's like Trevor Simeon. Is he pretty good? Is he worse than Jameis? Doesn't seem like it. Is there any difference with him and Jameis? No. He's fine. He wins them games. He doesn't hurt you. He's fine. Kamara, I think, is back. New Orleans is seventh

to DVOA. Philly is 12th. And last but not least, Philly's had this run resurgence the last couple weeks. Yeah. It's happened against Detroit, the Chargers,

who can't stop anyone, and Denver, who just couldn't tackle last week. Saints have the best run D in the league. There will not be a run resurgence this week, which means Hertz

is going to have to beat them. And then you have the Sean Pay D in the league. There will not be a run resurgence this week, which means Hertz is going to have to beat them. And then you have the Sean Payton against Sirianni. That's his name, right? That's an edge. Yeah, it just feels like that might be an edge too. And I'm getting points. I'm getting plus two. This also feels like a game that will be,

somebody's going to miss a PAT and there's going to be a two point. The plus two actually might come into play. And I guess my question is, people believe in this Eagles team and I'm not sure. It feels like a good time to zag against it. That would be the case. Here's the argument for the Eagles. Philadelphia Eagles right now are four and six. They're hanging on by a thread. Their next few games at home against the Saints. Remember this game's in Philly at one o'clock. It's going to be cold in Philly. That's an advantage against the Saints who are an indoor team. And whether people get bent out of fitness shape or not, the Saints don't usually travel well in playing cold weather. Giants next week, Jets after that,

Washington after that, Giants, Washington. And then they finish up the season and it's like, all right, if the Eagles can rattle off all these wins, let me look at their final few weeks here. They've got a season where it ends, of course, Christmas weekend, Giants, and then trying to figure out who they play up to next. But the Cowboys one more time, whatever it is. There is a path to the playoffs for the Eagles. And if they can get this one, they don't have to get on a plane again the rest of the season. But this is my point. This is my point with the Phillies,

Agdo. The Eagles fans have mapped this out. They think they're going to the playoffs now because they beat Denver. They went into Denver and they played well. They did. But it was also a really weird game, which unfortunately I gambled on Denver for where Denver was inside the Philly 10-yard line four times and got like 10 points out of it. They had two touchdowns called back. And then the pivotal play was that weird fumble when Bridgewater just stopped trying.

And all of a sudden, they're going back. That score was a little deceiving. Please, can we stay away? Gosh, this is our names on this. Okay. Vikings-P on this. Okay. Vikings Packers. All the Vikes do is play close games.

Yes. They have five losses. OT by three. They lost by one, lost by seven, lost by four, lost by three in OT. Okay. Packers, eight and two against the spread. They've covered eight of their last nine. History says teams don't end 14-2 against the spread. They've covered eight of their last nine. History says teams don't end 14-2 against the spread.

At some point, the line starts zagging against. No Aaron Jones this week. No Aaron Jones. In Minnesota. In Minnesota. Who do you think has a higher DVOA out of Green Bay and Minnesota? I'm going to guess Minnesota the way you're leading me into that. Minnesota, ninth in DVOA, Green Bay 12th. Minnesota, four and five. It could be

seven and two if you change three plays. Our guy Greg missing the kick. Greg Joseph. Our hero Greg. Cousin Greg. And two other ones. Rest of the way, at San Fran, at Detroit, Pittsburgh, at Chicago,

the Rams, at Green Bay, Chicago. There is a path for them to go 10-7. They have to win this game. They have to split the series with the Packers, realistically. Vikings plus one and a half at home.

Home dogs. Against a team that has always hung around in these games. There's two ways to play this. One is just take them straight up. The other is we sprinkle them into a tease. Bring it to plus seven and a half because they haven't lost a game by more than seven points all season. Here's the thing. Vikings, their whole thing is they're going to stop the run and they'll run and they'll build it to do that. Like that's not a great strength when Aaron

Rogers on the other side of the ball, who's just going to be like, I'm going to throw all over you guys. We haven't seen Rogers be Rogers in a couple of weeks since the COVID, especially not last week where he kind of came in shaky against Seattle. Is this the Aaron Rodgers FU game? And he's like, alright, everyone's picking the Vikings this week. I'm going into Minnesota without Aaron Jones and me and AJ Dillon and Devontae Adams. We're going to light it up.

Or is it the FU Aaron Rodgers game? Like, FU Aaron Rodgers? Who are you? Last seven weeks. Cousins. Cousins. Better stats than Rodgers this season. Yeah, but thank you? Last seven weeks. Cousins. Cousins. Better stats than Rogers this season. Just for the record. Thank God for the eye test. Packers last seven weeks.

27 points. 25. 24. 24. 24. 7. 17. That arrow's pointed down, Triggs.

Yeah, it is. And Jones is a huge player for them. So I have two questions. I think the Packers are a team that's going to score in the mid-20s, ultimately. Can the Vikings get into the 20s against the Packers' defense? Now, I'm super frustrated

when I watch the Vikings because I think they run the ball really well. I think Jefferson is completely unstoppable and I really like Thielen. And I don't understand when I watch them. I don't understand why it's not a 10 play 80 yard drive every time with the team they have and they shoot themselves in the foot. I know there's been some real skepticism about the offensive coordinator. Yeah. It's Gary Kubiak's son, Clint Kubiak, a nine year old. Vikings fans are, they're up in arms about it. How could this guy be the best option when we got all these skill position players and we're giving this guy a shot and maybe it's unfair, but I think anytime someone

sees the son of a legendary coach be given a job when he's 33, it's like, come on, like that's, that's nepotism. That's not what it should be, but their offense has played well the last few weeks. And I thought last week in LA, and I know the chargers are snake bitten with this stuff too, for them to actually shut the door and win one of those games, I thought it was a big step for them. So Bill, if you want to go with the Vikings and you want to put them in a tease and maybe give us a little points just to protect ourselves to bump it up to a plus seven and a half. Yeah, I'm down with that. Okay. Last one. Bengals Raiders. Bengals minus one.

It's at Vegas. Not sure that matters. Did you see what Zach Taylor said this week? What did he say? He said, what do you think? Do you go to Vegas? Zach is not a huge, big look at me person. He says, when I go to Vegas, I go alone and I tell my wife not to come and I don't go to the pool.

I don't go to the club. I don't go to the club. I don't do anything. I sit at the craps table for 72 hours straight and I just play craps. I'm like, Zach, I like that. That's what I do. That sounds like me in Vegas where I just do 15 straight hours of blackjack as my friends come and go. Got my asshole friends like, we're going to go see Tiesto at the club. I'm like, I'm good. I'm going to sit here. I thought the Raiders were reprehensible in that Chiefs game. Now, granted, if a couple of plays,

there was a world in which if Deshaun just doesn't fumble, they're at least trading scores with them. But I didn't like the body language at all. The defense, they have two good pass rushers. They can't cover. And the more I watch them, it just seems like any good defense, they have two good pass rushers. They can't cover. And the more I watch them, it just seems like any good defense,

any good offense can go on them. On the flip side, the Bengals have hurt our feelings a couple of times this year. More recently with the Jets game, the Browns kind of whipped on them and ran down their throats. I just don't know if the Raiders have the type of team that would be a problematic for the Bengals.

I think the Patriots would kill the Bengals. Like I think the Patriots would kill the Bengals. I think they would run the ball, be super physical and, and just, they would take out chase. And I think they would have trouble. I don't know if the Raiders are that team. And then you think like the residue of, of the Gruden and then rugs, those two things, it does seem like there's some, some effect now. I saw a team during that Chiefs game that seemed like it checked out in a way that I didn't like. That fourth quarter was really rough and they have a terrible interior defensive line and Joe Mixon, he can run the ball and the Bengals can move the ball. I love Cincinnati in this game. And I think it's just been, it's been a lot for

Las Vegas. And look, the last two years, they started off six and three and six and four and missed the playoffs. It looks like it's going that way again for the Raiders. I don't see them pulling a rabbit out of their hat and suddenly going on some torrid run. I would pick the Bengals here, even in Las Vegas. All right. Underdogs. Steelers are plus 225 against the Chargers.

The Chargers have Jedi mind-tricked everybody And I don't really understand it They've been bad for multiple weeks now Their offense looks pretty broken It just seems like they've lost their identity Mike Williams has disappeared Teams have taken him out They can't seem to figure out how to use Herbert

Steven Ruiz for us He did a really nice chart of Herbert's throws last week where none of them were long. It was like looking at Steph Curry's shot chart and everything's from 15 feet. They just haven't unleashed him. Everyone was ready to make Brandon Staley the coach of the year.

It's clearly now it's Rabel or Belichick, right, at this point? Those would be the favorites. Yeah, or Cliff. Cliff's fair. But you throw in the terrible run defense. You throw in the coaching, the Tomlin, the Steelers team that just seems like they can hang around in these games. And I don't know why the Steelers are dramatic underdogs. They're plus

225 in this game, Shregs. Yeah, because last week was so bad. Their defense gave up 240 yards rushing to a Lions team that's done nothing, and Mason Rudolph really did nothing. When you're playing football and your quarterback is an abomination, that has to affect

the defense. I know. And they found that out. They found that out hours before the game, you know, the night before that Ben wasn't going to go. Um, a couple of years ago, they went into LA with duck Hodges on a Sunday night and one, like, I, I think they can win. And I, and I also look at the chargers, both, uh, star player might not play because of the COVID-19 protocols. Jerry Tillery on the defensive line hasn't been as good. He's a first-round pick, though. He's probably going to be a game time with the COVID stuff. And I agree with you. We crowned Herbert, but now we're going to go... And he's awesome. He's got a great arm and all that stuff. But now we're looking at the possibility of him going two seasons of missing the playoffs and having all these gifts. And it's

like, is this a wasted potential type deal? I know they don't want to hear it. Chargers fans get really sensitive with this. That was a really purple room last week in that SoFi. And it was Vikings fans travel. And guess who really travels? This is the last piece of the case. They're six and a half point underdogs right now, plus 225.

And I think we should think about them for the plus six and a half too. It's going to be a home game for them. There's so many Steelers fans here. They're fucking psychotic. Every Pittsburgh fan within 120 miles of this stadium will be at that game.

Chargers fans take, and I think the Chargers organization, they do not like this storyline. They're like, that is not the case. If you come to the game, you will see this. This one will be undeniable and it's going to be on national TV and there's going to be terrible towels. And if they hang early, if they hang around, they'll be felt. So I think the Steelers have the edge in this one too. So for underdog parlay, we can put them with Washington. Washington going against Carolina. They're three-point underdogs.

You put Steelers and Washington together in a parlay. It's plus 674. Now, Washington just had their biggest win of the year last week. Great win. They lost Chase Young. I do like Gibson and McLaurin just as like tough dudes, you know, like especially if it's like a close game. And Cam Newton, like really.

And look who's coaching Washington. Ron Rivera knows Cam Newton. He knows him inside and out. You know, you know, what he remembers is all the passes. Cam probably bounced the last two years he was there. Carolina, I think is going to be really easy to figure out what they're going to do. They're just going to try to pound the ball. They're going to run. They're going to do a lot of sweeps and stuff. But Cam hasn't played football in a year. McCaffrey looked good last week. McCaffrey looked really good. He had 95 yards on the ground, had 10

catches. He was unbelievable. Burns is banged up, which isn't great for them. He might play, might not, but I don't love that. I think Washington could win that game, so that's one possibility. Steelers-Vikings is another one. That's plus 576. And then the big Kahuna, which you're going to make a face.

I stay away from Kahunas. Yeah, let's hear it. Steelers-Giants, plus 1575. Giants would have to beat Tampa. It would be an official Tampa tailspin. I mean, this would be... Tampa, by the way, they're okay on the road. They've put up 40 points

every home game this season. Something like that. I wouldn't go with the Giants in that one. Washington and Pittsburgh is interesting. So we could do Steelers-Washington and we could do

Steelers-Vikings? We could just throw both ofVikings. We could just throw both of those. Yeah. We could easily do both of those. Steelers plus six and a half. We could also tease that with the Vikings.

Keep them away from Pat's Bills. Keep Pat's Bills a separate tease. Yes. Steelers, Vikes, just as their own little minor tease. When do we go all in

on the Dolphins just kicking the crap out of the Jets? When can we do that? It's going to happen. We are going to do the million dollar picks right after this break.

All right, Kyle, turn the camera on. Million dollar picks week 11. Peter Schrager and I are only up 114,000. We took some hits the last couple of weeks, but I think that put us in line with the rest of America. So Schrags, when we run these on social, it makes it seem like we haven't talked about any of the picks and then you're there and I'm, I'm telling everybody what we're doing for

the picks and you're kind of nodding because we'd already discussed it. And then on social people are mean. I think it's bullshit. Keep this in the social. We just spent 30 minutes talking about these picks. Now I'm just recapping what we selected. Don't go in the replies and take shots at my guy, Peter Schrager. No, and if you think I'm kissing Bill Simmons' ass, are you serious? He just

talked me out of Saints Plus 2. I talked him out of the Saints. I think the Celtics suck. I think there's a lot of things I can say here. You know what? Pearl Jam? Decent band. That's what I feel like. Wow. Now you're starting a war. Week 11, million dollar picks. Tease. Patriots, minus six and a half. We're getting this under the wire in time for the Thursday night football game because honestly, we needed the win. Patriots, minus six and a half over the Falcons in Atlanta Thursday night football

and then Sunday Bills minus seven over the Colts we both think this might be a close game we are trusting Josh Allen

and McDermott against Frank Reich and most importantly Carson Wentz number one defense in the league the Buffalo Bills it doesn't matter

in the crowd Houston and Miami Bills Mafia Bills Mafia. Carson Wentz is coming to town. He's going to be covered in A1 steak sauce. Just eat him up.

Got that. We're going to do one more tease for a little smaller, a little separate one. Steelers getting six and a half in what's really a home game against the Chargers

as we just covered. Then the Vikings against the Pack. They're home as well. They're also getting points against Aaron Rodgers. The misleading Aaron Rodgers. Some would call him a liar. Misleading is probably more charitable.

We're going to tease the Steelers to plus 12.5 against the Chargers. We're going to tease the Vikings to plus 7.5 against the Packers. Two home dogs. It's a home dog as we're heading toward Thanksgiving.

A home dog tease. You call the Steelers at the Chargers a home dog. I love it, dude. Yeah. Home dog. Who's going to have more fans? The Steelers or the Chargers? Here's the answer.

The Steelers. So we're putting $200,000 on that. We are also putting $200,000 on the Miami Dolphins. This is the first, by the way, this is the first bad team matchup that we've bet on this, I think since like week one. We usually stay away.

We stay away from bad teams. We can't resist this case. Miami minus three against the Jets. It doesn't even matter where this game's being played. Both fan bases are demoralized and depressed.

Give the Jets defensive stats again for the social media video really quick. The last four games, they've given up 175 points. That's the second most given up points in a four-game span since 1970. And they have a defensive head coach. That's not good. Not good.

And they're starting Joe Flacco. Joe Flacco. Joe Flacco. I don't know. Listen, Miami doesn't do a lot of things well, but one thing Brian Flores is good at in the right situation, against the right offensive line, against the right immobile quarterback,

send the dogs! 200K on this. You could talk me into even going more on this. 250? Bump it up? A little 250? 200? All right.

We still got several weeks left. Don't try to get too much out of the apple. You're right. 200K on Miami minus three. Last one. Bengals minus one against a Raiders team that honestly quit against the Chiefs a few days ago and combined with all the strife and turmoil

they've had this season, feels like a team that the arrow is pointing down. And we have a Bengals team that cost us a lot of money a couple of weeks ago. Twice. Twice. Yeah. Yeah. Twice. You're right. A ton of money. They owe us. They owe us. Bengals minus one against the Raiders. Are they going to hurt us three times in a row? I don't think so. No. Zach Taylor told the media he loves craps. We're going to be betting on him. We're rolling the dice. Let's go, Zach. Last but not least, underdog parlay of the week. FanDuel will be boosting one of these. Do we tell them to boost Steelers Washington or Steelers Vikes? Steelers Washington is plus 674. Steelers Vikes is plus 576. I think we do Steelers Washington just because we already have stuff on Steelers Vikes. All right. Steelers-Vikes is plus 576. I think we do Steelers-Washington

just because we already have stuff on Steelers-Vikes. All right. Steelers to beat the Chargers in a home game for Pittsburgh in Los Angeles. Or Washington and Washington to beat Cam Newton in Carolina. Plus 674. We're going to boost that to 8-1.

8-1 odds for us. 33,000 on that. And We're going to boost that to 8 to 1. 8 to 1 odds for us. $33,000 on that. And we're going to put a little $33,000 as well on the Stewart's Vikings plus 576. A little sprinkle. Sure. Sprinkle. A little touch. You know when the waiter brings over the dessert menu and it's like,

I was going to get this, this. Yeah, let's get the rice pudding too. Throw that in. Why not? Rice pudding. Wow. No on rice pudding? You in? Yeah, I like rice pudding. Wow. No on rice pudding? You in? Yeah. I like rice pudding. I don't know. Yeah.

On the let's go scale, what was that? The scale of one to 10, those bets. That was a seven. Let's go. Oh, seven. All right.

Those were the Billion Dollar Picks for week 11. You can see Peter Schrager this weekend on Fox NFL. And You can see Peter Schrager this weekend on Fox NFL and you can see him on Good Morning Football. My girl Rachel Bonetto was on Good Morning Football this week.

She was wonderful. She was great. Love Rachel. Cool as hell. And she did an amazing mock of Kyle Brandt. Did the angry runs thing and I don't think Kyle necessarily got that. It was like when Sarah Palin is doing it with Tina Fey there, Kyle came out like absolutely shredded and ripped and was like,

no, I'm actually going to do it for real. And it was, yeah, it was good. That angry runs thing, I retweeted it. That was hilarious. Yeah, it was good to see all of you together. All right, Shrakes, good to see you. I'll see you next week. You're the man, though.

All right, this podcast was produced by Kyle Creighton. I will see you on this feed on Sunday. Go Pats. I don't have feelings with him. On the wayside, I'm a person I never was. And I don't have feelings with him.