The Bill Simmons Podcast - The Fence-Jumping Virgin Bachelor, Zion's Return and LeBron in Tank Mode with Juliet Litman, Mark Titus, Kevin O'Connor, Haley O'Shaughnessy, and Danny Chau | The Bill Simmons Podcast

Episode Date: March 8, 2019

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Juliet Litman to talk about 'The Bachelor' jumping the fence and The Ringer's new Hulu show 'Can I Steal You For a Second?' (3:00). Then Bill talks with Mark Titus about Zion Williamson, the NCAA debate, LeBron's Ohio impact, and more (23:00). Finally Bill sits down with Kevin O'Connor, Haley O'Shaughnessy, and Danny Chau to discuss the Sloan conference, the worst possible landing spots for Zion, Celtics bonding, Warriors' playoff threats, LeBron James, and more (49:25). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tonight's episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast and the Ringer Podcast Network brought to you as always by ZipRecruiter. You know what's smart? Giving a bunch of money to LeBron James and hoping he'll change your franchise. Normally that's smart. 2019, not smart. Turns out that wasn't smart this year. Maybe it'll be smart next year. Not this year though.

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AB, Bud Light Beer. St. Louis. Missouri. We're also brought to you by TheRinger.com, the world's greatest website that is loaded with great stuff this week, including our awesome NFL draft guide, if you love that. And

we have an NBA draft guide. We're not that far away. Kevin O'Connor is coming up later. He's one of the people writing for it. And that is happening too. So stay tuned. Go to theminger.com. Read all of our Bachelor coverage, including Roger Sherman's recaps of Fun Out

is coming up. Bachelor Party hosted by Juliette Libman. She's coming up in a second to talk about the new Hulu show that we're doing. And then check out the JJ Reddick podcast. He had Tobias Harris last week which was good and then he's got

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Mark Titus is coming up in a second. We're going to be talking about The Bachelor. And then we're going to be talking about Zion Williamson and whether he should come back or not to Duke. And then a little NBA roundtable trying to figure out what the hell just happened with LeBron James this season, which now it appears the Lakers are going to be tanking. We're going to talk about that. Quick little playoff snapshot of who we like heading into the most boring stretch of the NBA season right before we have the MVP to argue about.

All that is coming up first, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right. Here with me is one of the stars of Can I Steal You for a Second, the show we did for Hulu. I can't believe we were able to book her on the podcast, Julia Littman. Hey. So we're doing this show. It's on Hulu. You can find it. It stays on Hulu. One of the great things about doing a show for a streaming service, it's there. It went up today, Thursday, and it is going to be up there Friday and Saturday and Sunday and Monday and leading up to the season finale of one of the craziest Bachelor seasons ever. Colton the Virgin. Colton the fence-jumping virgin.

As a sports expert, where do you rank his fence jump and the pantheon of great feet-step athleticism? It reminded me of Bo Jackson, that one clip when he makes the catch and then just runs up the side of the wall. Bo Jackson, that's really elite. I want to know, it's unfortunate, like if this was in LA, we could have actually gone to the spot

and tried to reenact it. I know. He's in Portugal. Yes. And this is what happened on last week's Bachelor episode. He gets dumped for the, what, the seventh time? No Bachelor's ever, fourth time? No Bachelor's ever been dumped this many times

on his own show. Storm's off and there's this giant gate and you've all seen it online. He just easily vaults the gate. Easily. Not hard at all. It's like an eight foot gate. It was like taking a step and he just went over it.

Best Chris Harrison performance ever, probably. Probably ever. His reaction. Incredible. Now, my question is they probably had one camera. Did they film his reaction after? Was it like a broadcast news situation? Oh, interesting.

They were like, let's go back. I'll make myself cry or I'll make myself look shocked. No, I think what we saw was like what happened. I don't think. I think they filmed it after. Of Chris I think what we saw was like what happened. I don't think- I think they filmed it after. Of Chris Harrison walking towards the fence? Yeah. Really?

I think they had Colton and then they're like, holy shit. And then they said, hey, Chris Harrison, let's refilm this. Refilm your reaction. Just pretend to be stupefied. But Chris Harrison was still stupefied. So it was fine.

It was still wild. And I love the moment where you hear a producer off camera yelling, somebody call Chris. Yeah. That was fun. It was still wild. And I love the moment where you hear a producer off camera yelling, somebody call Chris. Yeah. That was amazing. So the Virgin, he gets to the fantasy suites. And first one doesn't dive in.

Turns her down. That's got to be a special kind of rejection. She seemed disappointed too. I know. She was ready. She was, she was ready. I mean, yeah, she's been on the show. She thinks she's in love with him.

She hasn't had the opportunity to hook up with anyone else in two months. So she's ready to go. And yeah, she's turned down by a virgin. That sucks. She was approaching it like it was a game seven. She took her pregame nap. She's really ready to perform in front of the crowd. And then the game was canceled.

Yeah. And then she had to tell the camera directly that they did not have sex. That was pretty wild. That was pretty wild. And like, she definitely wore her best sexiest outfit, like showing a lot of cleavage. She was all fired up and he just couldn't do it. It seems like there was more going on than just rejection. For her? like showing a lot of cleavage. She was all fired up and he just couldn't do it.

It seems like there was more going on than just rejection. For her? It was more like a what's going on here kind of look on her face. Yeah. Well, like, what do you think they did all night? Just hang out? Like, I don't know. I don't know.

Sounds boring. He doesn't seem that fun. I don't know. So she just was not happy when she Kyle when you when you lose your virginity do you think do you think it's gonna be with somebody you love

or you're just gonna wanna get it over with I think for most guys it's just trying to get it over with so you don't have to lie about it anymore that's what Colin this is but he

it actually made more sense to get to get it over with because he really loves Cassie and at least he would have some experience then some I mean one day's worth.

Imagine being second and third in this. Saying he had done it, saying it had gone normally. Yeah. I don't even know if you want to be first, second, or third. I guess third, but it's just very weird. So on the Hulu show we did,

which you're on with Lauren Zima. Yes. Who we're able to secure. Very talented host. Good friend. Who's been on Bachelor Party many times. Yes.

And then Ben Higgins, The Love of Your Life. Love of my life. So he was on that too. And then Rachel Lindsay, who is terrific. I'd like her to be one of my best friends. Rachel's so dope. She's definitely the coolest person who's ever passed through the ringer vortex. And definitely The Bachelor as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was too cool for the bachelorette. She

sized up these dudes. So anyway, during this fantastic one and a half hour show we did, which is very ringery and has winners and losers and MVPs and all the kinds of things, it feels like us, the show. But this came up. Where would you want to be in the fantasy suite pecking order? Yeah. And both of them, Ben and Rachel, both said that it wasn't their choice. And Ben didn't know who was first, second, third. But Rachel said she at least asked. So then it got me thinking, what is the right order?

And how do you put it? Because each one, right? Especially for the guys. They have the one they probably- They know they want. They kept around just for the fantasy suite, then they're going to get rid of them. Rachel kept saying that, that the guys decide really early who it is. But the bachelors, but the bachelorettes give more people a chance, which I thought was kind of an interesting gender insight.

Well, the insinuation seems to be that the fantasy suite, you really have to earn your keep in the suite. Yeah, absolutely. If the fantasy suite, you really have to earn your keep. Yeah. In the suite. Yeah, absolutely. If something goes wrong, you're out. Who's the one who had like performance issues? What do you mean? Like who? I thought there was one with the bachelorette and it was like, it didn't go great.

And it was insinuated there's performance issues. Not on this season, on another season. I think Andy insinuated that about Nick perhaps. Is that what you're thinking of? Yeah, but I think it was more think Andy insinuated that about Nick, perhaps. Is that what you're thinking? Yeah, but I think it was more than an insinuation. I don't know. He famously at the after the final rose was like, why did you make love to me if you weren't in love with me or something like that?

Right. So that was a whole messy thing. So anyway, I don't know what my order would be, but I think it says a lot about a person, which is why I'm afraid to answer. Sure. Well, some things that Rachel and Ben told us was that she said that Peter and Brian both asked what order they were in. Another thing that was really interesting to me was that they said that you don't know, but then I said to them, but you could figure it out. So I feel like there's like some like willful delusion because you know, if you're first, you know, when you've arrived in wherever you are. So if it's not like the second day that you're in Portugal, you're not first.

So I think three and seven days is disgusting just in general. It's just like unseemly. The conceit is absurd. I mean, look, I'm from a different generation. Day on, day off, day on, day off. Yeah. My twenties were spent with just everyone was in fear of AIDS at all times. So I probably not the right person to answer this, but that just seems like a lot. Yeah. Three in a week. And also like with somebody who is allegedly in love with at least one of those people.

Yeah. Don't you feel bad if you're in love with one of them? I mean, it's just. My guess is like you just get drunk. Yeah. I think you drank drink i think you get tipsy and then just things kind of happen sure also it's like your first time being alone together so that's like must be so weird you're just like there's no there's no one else around like what

do we do yeah i mean i would think you would if you're really into each other you're like just go for it like this is great let's go that's why the tisha and colton thing is so weird because they were alone. They had the, I mean, they probably, I mean, as Colton said,

he's, he's not unexperienced. He's done other stuff, but like, it just sounds so boring. Well, he's the least horny bachelor they've ever had. He's unhorny to the point of real confusion,

except for Heather and except for Hannah and Cassie. He's, he's hot for them. Yeah. But he makes out with them like a seventh grader. Yeah. And also he does a lot of butt grabbing. Yeah, it's very odd.

Cause you know, I'm, I just comparing it to the behavior I see on some of the other terrible shows I watch. Like what, Temptation Island? Or The Challenge. Challenge, sure. Or the, it's CS the Key, which I'm forced to watch every week with my daughter.

And CS the Key, all those dudes are in heat every week with my daughter. And CS the key, all those dudes are in heat at all times, just trying to hook up with anything. Sure. And if you leave any of the guys in that show alone with any good looking woman for five minutes, like they're going to make a move. And then you watch Colton who is with the same woman for eight hours,

who's hitting him over the head with. He's got to be so psyched out. I mean, come on it's also like this entire his entire journey was about how he's a virgin so like the build to the fantasy suites like it was all coming down to this talk about there's ever going to be a time you performance anxiety i guess but isn't isn't that actually the best time like your expectations are all-time low you're basically the Sacramento Kings.

Even if you win a game at home, it's exciting. I mean, the girl can't be expecting, you know, a marathon session. I think the craziest part about Colton and Tasia not having sex, not that surprising, the fact that they so openly talked about it after. Yeah. That they didn't even,

like wasn't even like let people guess. Right. That she just told the camera. Who's, wasn't even like, let people guess. Right. That she just told the camera. Who's the third person who hasn't gone yet? Hannah G. She looks like a doll. Hannah G.

Is the beauty pageant one? No. No. She's like, the one that he had the really like, hot date with in Vietnam, I think,

with like the shower, Oh, when she like, assaulted him. Oh, that was one of the key conversations in our Hulu show. Yes,

absolutely. We, and I, I the key conversations in our Hulu show. Yes, absolutely. We, and I helped with the production of this show and this was one of the things I demanded to be discussed. What happens if, if a bachelor boner is, comes into play? Yes. And what do they do? What does the crew do? How do you hide it? Do they have to cut out? And Ben was very instructive. We did not expect Ben Higgins to really answer it in a really profound and extensive way. I learned a lot as a woman. I learned a lot. You know, it was like the Peyton Manning detail. Absolutely. ASPN plus show. But but about boners. I really recommend watching the

show if for no reason but to hear Ben talk about that. It's worth it. The two best parts of the show, not that I didn't enjoy the whole show, but it's a five minute erection conversation. Oh, yes. A full on five minutes. And really one of the most important

erection conversations ever. I really learned a lot. Certainly of this year so far, 2019. But we learned that the promo photo for Ben's season shows him having a giant erection. He has a boner in it. And you look at it and you're like, oh my God, that's a boner.

I can't believe no one noticed that sooner. He looks like Will Ferrell in Anchorman when he's hitting on Christina Applegate and all of a sudden the camera pans back and he's got a boner. And she's like, oh, you got a boner and she's like, oh, you have an erection. He's like, my God.

Oh. So obviously I wanted to go back to 2016, I think it was, or 15, 16 to figure out like if there was a conversation about this.

But first of all, hard to Google because what are you going to Google? Ben Higgins boner, Ben Higgins erection, like. Yeah, boner, erection.

A little dicey. You don't know what kind of results you're going to get there. And so I just did some like. Smart. Yeah. So I erection. A little dicey. You don't know what kind of results you're going to get there. And so I just did some like, yeah, so I didn't want to do that. So it was hard to research, but I was Ben's first fan. I'm just going to say when Jacoby and I were doing the right reasons, I was like really into Ben H and I was so excited when he became the bachelor. And I think I would have been aware of this conversation. People were like, Ben's main publicity photo. He has a huge boner. I don't think it was discussed at the time. Well, it's one of those things where if you look at it,

it looks like, you know, bathing suit, there's air in it. Sometimes it pops out and that's what you assume it is. But then when Ben's saying, no, actually that's my boner. And then you zoom in, you look at the picture and you're like, oh yeah, it is. So that was, that was one of my favorite parts. And then the other, just one of the most needed five minutes of content ever is the Bachelor in Paradise fantasy draft. Oh, yeah. Which, you know, as we've said for years, The Bachelor and The Bachelorette is a feeder system for Bachelor in Paradise now. 100%. It's basically, you know, Zion Williamson is at Duke for a year.

It's all leading to the NBA for Zion. And that's what this show is. And we had a Zion this year. We had a Zion-level prospect. Absolutely. Demi. And she came through at the Women Tell All being very extra. And they even nodded to the fact that she'd be in Paradise.

Number one draft pick. She was amazing in the Women Tell All and had one of the best lines. And for some reason they didn't sell it. She taunted Colton about how he missed out with her in the fantasy suite. She was like, I would have given you, I think she's like,

I would have given you a great lay or something. No, she said, yeah, you had a great time with me in the fantasy suite. You missed out or whatever she said. Amazing. It was like listening to Michael Jordan taunt the Blazers that they didn't pick him in the 1984 draft.

So good. What a way. Now, if he had picked her, that would have been quite a way to lose it. It probably would have been better because she was like, I like to be dominant in the bedroom. I think that would have been good for him. Yeah. She was like a rational confidence.

Yes. That would have been better for him. Yeah. She would have led the way. She would have made it like not awkward because her personality is that way. He should have chosen her specifically for that reason. But at least keep her for the final three. He's not a good game manager.

That's been clear this whole time. And a smarter game manager would have been like, I need Demi to help. She should have gone first. And so then he was like primed for two and three. Well, you know my rule in life. When somebody is shirtless a lot, they're trying to cover something up.

And usually it's the complete lack of a personality. Because, and on Siesta Key, which my daughter forces me to watch every week, there's a guy, Garrett, who's similar to Colton. He has no personality and he's shirtless constantly. And like his abs is kind of his calling card.

Sure. He puts his body up front so you don't like think about who he is. Yeah. It's the move. That's why Kyle is shirt of his calling card. Sure. He puts his body up front. So you don't like think about who he is. Yeah. It's, it's the move. That's why Kyle is shirtless all the time. I'm kidding. Kyle is actually,

he doesn't need, he has so much personality, but the people who are shirtless a lot, it's a red flag. I agree. Absolutely agree. So, so what'd you give for the season for,

for a grade? I gave it a solid B. I thought it was pretty good. I liked on the show, I thought Rachel broke it down how the first half was a D and then the second half was an A minus. I actually would go A for the second half. I thought the Finch Jump episode was an iconic Bachelor episode. This is a show that's been around now for 37 seasons and 15, 16 years, something like that. I think they said 17 years. Yeah. That was one of the five most, what is the top five?

Moments ever? Just like that'll live on. I feel like it's that one. It's the guy switching, switching picks. You mean Jason Mesnick? Yes, that one. I also think the Jake and Vienna breakup is up there. That was really.

They showed a clip of that on the Women Tell All. And I forgot how dark that was. I remember watching it. You're just an evil person. Yeah, she walked off the set. She was. I think when What's Her Face and Nick just started going at it. And it wasn't even a fantasy suite.

Oh, Caitlyn and Nick. That was fantastic. Caitlyn's the goat. I love that one. Caitlin is the best lead, bachelor and best act. She's one of my favorite reality characters ever. I completely agree. And then, who was the one who, in the water, went at the really aggressive

one? Oh, Courtney Robertson and Ben Flanick with the Ocean Coitus. Ocean Coitus was great. That season's kind of lost to time. No one really talks about it it but it was a good one it was a good one it was good because the villain won no one liked Courtney and Ben chose her so it worked out well for the show

they stayed together for like a week a minute yeah a minute I mean the reality is none of these people ever stay together Colton has no chance to make it a relationship with any of the women who are left let's say he even does like go to Tasha and Hannah and Hannah. And like, actually, I'm in love with you.

He's not picking either of those. No, I don't think so either. There's no chance for him. And even there's just no way. There's no way for any of these to work out. But that's like, they're all so young. Like Hannah and Cassie are 23 anyway. Like it's not, it shouldn't work out.

Like have some more fun first. Well, as you know, I watch these shows now and I identify with the dad. Of course. And I really liked how Cassie's dad handled this whole thing. I would be immediately suspicious of somebody who showed up with a camera crew and asked for my hand in marriage while he was also dating four other people. And I know what the show is and how everybody hasn't gone to the fantasy suite yet. I'd be like, guess what?

No, fuck off. I'm not giving you permission. Come back after this is over and maybe I'll let you marry my daughter. Yeah, perhaps. Yeah. Perhaps. Because by the way,

I guess he's not paying. I guess the bachelor, does the bachelor pay? Who pays for the wedding? They just pay for the ring. They just pay for the ring, yeah. Yeah, so the dad's got to pay for the wedding. Yeah.

Fuck you, dude. Come back. And also like just date. See how it goes. How about date for six months and then I'll pay for the wedding. Totally. I completely agree.

And then that dude flew to Portugal and basically cock-blocked the entire relationship. She was relieved. She needed someone to give her the out. She wanted the out. And her dad did it. He came through for her. She's very pretty. I'm not sure if she has a personality either.

And I think that the no personality combo there is really one for the ages. Would have been another- Although sometimes that happens. Sometimes two people with no personalities end up together. Yeah, because you like finds like, you know?

Yeah. You just kind of sit there in silence and- They sort of look alike to me as well. Similar like aesthetics. Well, she should have taken a long look

at Colton's dad. I don't think he was such a unhandsome older man. Yeah. But notice not a lot of hair, not a lot of hair in the top there. That's where Colton's got about two years left. He can be shirtless all he wants, but guess what?

He's going to have to shave it. He's looking like Ed Harris in about a year. He already has some hair issues that came through this season. I think. Yeah. I still can't figure that dude out. He clearly wants to be famous. 100%. He's been living in LA during the season. That's rare. Most bachelors stay in their hometown while it's airing. Is Colton our bartender three years from

now at some place in Hollywood? Dear God, I hope so. We're at the San Vicente bungalow. Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed. And it's like, oh my God, Colton just made me an old fashioned. I would love that. Can we just hire him to be a bartender at a party? Yeah. I don't know. Kyle might get threatened.

Would you get threatened if we adopted Colton as like our bartender? You're kind of our bartender. I'd like to be. Yeah. We should have more parties. We just can't have another party ever. Ever. It's a new era.

See you at a third party location for a lovely evening of one glass of wine. It's a Thursday night party from 8 to 8.20. We'll see you there. Here's your one drink ticket. Three sips of wine and then you have to leave. Oh my Lord. 2019 is something. All right.

So Hulu, you can watch right now. It is called Can I Still Eat For A Second? Congratulations on your EP slash streaming star debut. Thanks, man. And then Bachelor Party. If you want to hear the reaction to the season finale, which is Monday night, and then is there a show after?

Monday and Tuesday. So you got podcasts coming Monday and Tuesday as well. Bachelor Party. A long running franchise. Used to be The Right Reasons. Dave Jacoby, he dumped us and we kept it going anyway. We've been doing this since 2012. Yeah. It's a long time. And then Jacoby left. RIP Jacoby. He left us. Love Jacoby though. He left us. He went to the Miami heat. All right. Thanks, Julia. Thanks, Bill. All right. Mark Titus is coming up in one second. First,

the new Microsoft Surface Pro 6 can help you get things done whether you're on the field or running a business. Take Brian Arakpo and Michael Griffin, two former NFL teammates who have opened a cupcake shop. With the Surface Pro, they can do everything they need from setting schedules to creating promotions

for social media and designing new flavors. Plus, it's light, super fast, has a great battery life. Brian and Mike are proving you can tackle all your passions with the power and speed of the new Surface Pro 6. All right, let's bring in Titus. All right, Mark Titus is here from the One Shining podcast, or One Shining podcast, the One Shining podcast or One Shining podcast. The One Shining podcast.

OSP with a palm tree through it. That's another way to... Nephi Kyle has it tattooed on his arm. He loves it so much. We were talking in the office yesterday about Zion. Yeah, of course. Because I feel like I'm on this corner basically all alone or mostly alone

where I just don't understand how this immediately turned into a referendum on whether the NCAA is evil and why college athletes shouldn't play. And they're getting taken advantage of. And I'm like, a, can we just mourn the fact that this guy got hurt 38 seconds into the best college game in like five years.

And then B has anyone talking about this ever played sports? Yeah. Explain to America what it's like to be on a college team and how much fun it is it's the most fun it's uh yeah it was very frustrating because i am i am pro pain players i hate the ncaa maybe not as much as a lot of people but i definitely think you know it's it's messed up to have an organization that says uh we we are an amateur enterprise but at the same time they whore themselves out and to billion dollar tv deals all this kind of stuff like i'm i'm on board with all that um the problem is is like the way people react to this stuff makes me then puts me in a position where i'm defending them today and i hate

you know what i mean like start talking, people genuinely use the word slavery to describe college athletes. And I just want to bang my head against the wall. Like you're not helping the cause when you start doing that. Um, but no, and, and the, the really frustrating thing is that Zion Williamson is not the guy. He's not the martyr that you want for this. Like Ben Simmons is the guy. Yeah. That's the guy. He didn't want to be there. He made it clear. He didn't want to quit on his team and did that's the guy that you should have been like this is a problem that he's you know putting the system Zion wants to be there he loves Duke he loves his teammates um everything about we know about the guys like I just didn't understand why he became

like the martyr everyone wanted him to basically be a martyr and like sit out the rest of the year stick it to the NCAA which by the way was, was never going to work. You know what happens if Zion Williamson announced today? He's like, I'm done for the season. I think it's unfair that I'm not getting paid. This is, this is a crock of shit. And I I'm boycotting, you know what the NCAA is going to say? Okay, cool. So yeah, we're, we're, we're going to be fine without you Zion. Thanks for, guess what? We're not changing anything. Exactly. Thanks for your input though. It's not like it's actually going to do anything yeah it was very bizarre

it's very frustrating I love the whole when people weigh in and be like he shouldn't play anymore he's proven his point yeah he's already

he's already gotten where he needs to go he's given the number on pick no yeah these are his friends right

that he met in August and these are all his boys and this is his one chance to ever like try to win a title with these guys and now if he's hurt

it's another thing or if his knee is 90% not 100% like yeah I see it right but they said he's healthy

I mean I'm sure he can come back maybe next week he'd be 100% and the dude wants to play with his buddies and try to win the title and talk about it 40 years from now. The other thing that's really annoying is this idea that if Zion Williamson turns his ankle,

if he comes back to play Carolina this weekend and he turns his ankle, he's going to be bagging groceries for the rest of his life. It's like how people act like it. He's going to be the number one pick. He's fine. He's going to be...

And I guess my perspective is just being friends with Odin and watching him, you know, he was hurt his whole freshman year. He set out for first half of freshman year, Ohio state. There were injury concerns like the whole way he gets drafted. Obviously doesn't play right away.

He's got micro fracture. It's a million micro. This dude was hurt like his whole career. He's very wealthy. He made a lot of money. He's got a great life. And I know that there's a big difference between like

30 million dollars and 300 million dollars but I don't know just everyone frames it like if his shoe busts open again Zion Williamson

will he'll have to get his legs amputated and we'll never you know he'll be making 750 an hour at Ralph's you know that's not gonna happen

also this isn't football where he can have like a severe concussion and he can get paralyzed. He could break his leg in nine places. It's really hard for a basketball player

to get hurt in a situation where if he wasn't on the court for an NCAA team, guess what? He'd be playing basketball anyway. It's the same danger every pickup game, every whatever. It's not like he's gonna stop playing basketball i mean yeah he's playing against bigger stronger dudes you know when you're

playing against north carolina but you're still i actually think you had more trouble playing in pickup games because those guys don't totally know how to play absolutely the worst possible games are when like the football team decides i'm with you on that yeah those guys don't know what they're doing yeah we play I played a pickup at Ohio State sometimes with the lacrosse coaches. And oh my God, I feel like I'm going to die. Those guys just throw forearms and stuff.

Yeah. Well, the other thing with Zion, he's put Duke in a really fascinating position, which is the other, we didn't talk about this yesterday, but I've been thinking about it. Coach K kind of can't win with this. Yeah.

If I'm Coach K, I actually don't want him to come back because if he comes back, now it's like, well, Coach K obviously put pressure on him. So he's immediately the villain, no matter how this turns out. If Zion somehow got hurt again,

or if maybe they misdiagnosed the knee the downside for coach k right is like incalculable he's better off like zion not coming back at all if i was coach k i would be making a test after test after test to make sure because this would be like the biggest black mark on his legacy if zion got hurt again i think that's why he's probably holding them out right now oh that's why you think it's why it's why because them out right now. Oh, it's not. It's not that you think it's why. It's why. Because I'm sure like, he probably could have come back. Like, I don't know. I'm not, I'm just speculating, obviously,

but the injury does not seem severe whatsoever. It feels like something that he could have probably come back even in the second half of the Carolina game. Like if he really wanted to, he probably could have just kept playing in the Carolina game. Right, if it was game seven, Warriors, Cavs, he would have been back. He probably would have been back. And they're holding them out like it's and there's

probably because of what you said yeah like they know what they're doing it's really delicate um but yeah just the conversations around it is it's it's very frustrating that's that's the only way i describe it it's just like i think people want to have the conversations and they look for a catalyst but sometimes it's the wrong catalyst but they're like cool we get to have this conversation it's like no no not this time we're, cool, we get to have this conversation. It's like, no, no, not this time. We're actually just bummed out that Zion got hurt. Can anybody stop and ask the kid what he wants?

That was the weird thing. You build these stories. It's selfish to, or I don't know. People think it's selfish to make Zion come back and all that kind of stuff. To me, it's selfish to not ask him what he wants and then to just put this expectation on his back and be like, Zion, we need you to sit out because we're fighting this war against the NCAA. That you don't care about.

You love your friends. You made the point. These next five weeks of Zion Williams' life and R.J. Barrett and Cam Reddish and Trey, all these guys, these next five weeks of their lives are going to be the five weeks, assuming everything goes as it probably will for Duke, that they will talk about for the rest of their lives. Zion Williamson could win six NBA titles,

and he's probably still good. Like you see with like Jordan. Jordan is tied to Carolina. He loves Carolina. He's like all about Carolina, and he's got the whole Carolina tie. Jordan doesn't live in Chicago right now. Jordan wasn't trying, you know. Like these guys are tied to college.

That is, that will always be the case. I found that with the KD podcast. Yeah. And he's like, he loves Texas more than anything. He was there for like seven and a half months.

Zion. Like that one team he was on. Those are all like his boys. He could win six title NBA titles. And he, I guarantee when he's like 95 years old and you ask him like his favorite basketball memories,

he's going to say in 2019, me and my friends at Duke, we won the national championship. Like that's the thing, he's going to say in 2019, me and my friends at Duke, we won the national championship. Like that's the thing that he's going to remember the most. So this idea that. Well, and the other thing is, and you understand this more than anybody, you know, for a lot of these guys, this is the first time they've ever not lived at home for an extended period

of time where they've had a nice room and just food available all the times. And I mean, that was something Katie talked about where he was like, you know, he had a really rough childhood. He went to Texas. He like, he had a room and a bed and he had meals that he didn't have to worry about and was just like really happy there for the first time. Well, college for these guys is the one time that they make a decision for themselves. There's not their parents or their guardians.

The parents or guardians tell them where they're going to go to high school, where they're going to play for. And then when they get drafted to the pros, they're drafted into the team and they're told you're going to be playing for this team. College is the one time that you say, I'm going to pick to play here. I'm going to spend my life here.

And I'm going to be treated like, it's basically like you're staying at a really fun hotel. And the other thing we had a couple freshman thing, we had a couple, freshman year, we had a couple of basketball players on our floor actually. And it's just hilarious. Like they're sleeping all the time. They're up late at night. They're eating, like their whole schedule is completely out of whack

with everyone else on campus. And then they're there during the winters when everybody else is gone and they're just kind of locked in with the women's basketball players. That's really anybody who, that's it who's on campus for three weeks. And they're just really bonded in this profound way. They're there all the time.

Now, I don't know, maybe the internet has changed that a little bit in video games, but for the most part, you're really just all in it together. So to ask somebody like him to be like, yeah, you should just stop playing. There's no way that's happening.

Yeah, there's no way it's happening. Yeah. Every friend I have from Ohio State, and this is going to sound sad, but it's not. It just speaks to like the experience of being on a team. Every single person I still talk to from my four years at Ohio State had something to do with the basketball team.

Yeah. I don't have a single friend that I was like in an accounting class with or like I met at a frat party and we became buddies or anything like that. I just didn't have time for that. I was with the basketball guys always. So it's like managers, coaches, players. Those are all my college friends that I have.

I'm really close with all of them. And we had the same role on our teams, although you were way more successful than I was. But the bus rides was really where we showed up. Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly. The bus rides, the ball busting, the you know, the bus rides was really where we're showing. Oh yeah, yeah, exactly. Bus rides, the ball busting, the,

the chronicling, whatever the fuck was happening. You know, I'm sure these dudes are together constantly. And even though RJ Barrett and Cam Reddish, and those are going to be three of the top five picks, I'm sure he's just like buddies with those dudes. It also seems like Zion's just like the greatest guy.

He's awesome. He just tries really hard. He has no ego whatsoever. Yeah. All he wants to do is win basketball games. There's nothing else going on. I've been, I've been waiting for like something to,

to rip on him about, and it just does that, you know, just cause he's perfect. Yeah. He's just, he's just kind of perfect. It's like,

he checks every box. Duke is like the worst thing about him. But I mean, at this point it's like, I don't know. But when he turned your, your partner, Duke is like the worst thing about him. But I mean, at this point, it's like, I don't know. But when he turned your partner, Tate, who's diehard UNC. Tate's losing his mind, yeah. Tate's losing his mind.

Follow Tate on social media. There's been some mind losing. Tate's Instagram is off the rails. It's all because Duke, the real object of his affection is Zion Williamson, who's under Coach K's spell. Yeah. He's torn. Yeah.

Poor Tate. So this whole idea about him sitting out, do you think there's a correlation with the NBA and the Anthony Davis? I mean, I know you've talked about this a lot, and you and Rosillo, I love you guys for it, are very much like, can we pump the brakes on this player empowerment stuff? Yeah. Is there a relation to that? Do you think in terms of like people wanting Zion to sit out?

Cause I, I mean, I brought this up to you. I feel like the future of basketball is everybody sits out and like, there's just no basketball games. No one realizes that there's no games. It's just, we get shots of like the NBA players walking in with their,

whatever they're wearing and they're holding their little handbags. And we get those shots of them on Instagram. And then we tweet about stuff and trade rumors and all that kind of stuff. And games are never actually played. Guys are sitting out for their next contracts. College players are sitting out for their draft positions. Well, we both like Monday Night Raw.

It's basically Monday Night Raw. It's just the entrances. It's like, yeah, Brock Lesnar never wrestles. He just shows up and just stands there. It's like that sort of thing. You think guys should have managers? Like Kyrie could have a manager? Kyrie's manager comes out.

There's been a lot of talk about Kyrie Irving and what kind of player he is. That's really, I don't know. It's really frustrating because, yeah, we're on the same page with this. It's just, when I was growing up, and again, I sound, I'm going to defend you because people are going gonna rip you for being like an old dude who's out of touch or whatever i'm the same age as a lot of the nba guys you know like this is my generation of guys that are in the

league um and it's just weird to me because these thoughts like never and obviously i'm not as good as those guys and all that kind of stuff but like when we were growing up like i don't remember people talking about money with basketball it wasn't like even greg being friends with him he was never like okay if i do I do X, Y, Z, if I go to Ohio State versus going to Indiana State, then maybe I'll make more money and maybe I'll sign with Nike instead of Puma. Or, you know, like these thoughts

just never crossed our minds. It was just like, I love playing basketball. I'm willing to play basketball. And if I'm lucky, I'll make some money. And that was it. And that's like all anyone thought about. And now it's like every single decision, this isn't true of everybody, but like, it's like the public thinks that every decision should be

driven by dollars and cents or in situations yeah like anthony davis is 25 and he's like it's time to think about my legacy it's like is it really yeah yeah this won a couple playoff series it's it's just make the best of what what team you're on right now. Like now you have to, you're going to go to LA with LeBron, who's in his 18th year and is visibly not the same guy that he was three years ago. And this is, that's going to be good for your legacy? Yeah. It's weird. I don't know.

It's very confusing for me to. People get bad advice. I think that that's also part of this, where you have the right person coming to be like, hey, it'll be you and LeBron. And then we're going to get this guy and Klay Thompson's going to come. It'll be awesome. And then Anthony's like, yeah, that sounds great.

Yeah. Yeah, you should do that. But that's the one thing with college. And college has kind of figured it out where you can't transfer. Maybe the NBA should have transfer rules. We have to sit out for a year and not get paid. It feels like the nba it really honestly feels like we're 10 years away from just doing a redraft every single year we're like guys just sign one of your contracts and then you just like shuffle up the entire player pool and it's like all right redraft for the next season

well maybe shake them all up every year you were on that famous au team yeah who was on the team i always make you tell this conley was was a point guard, Eric Gordon shooting guard, Daquan Cook, small forward, Josh McRoberts, power forward, Greg Oden center. But no Gordon Hayward. Gordon was on my high school team. Yeah. Yeah. He was two years younger than me. So he's on my high school team. So that AAU team, how long did it stay together?

We were together like five years, like eighth grade through and then all through high school. So nowadays you'd be together in eighth grade and then in ninth grade, Josh McRoberts would get lured to this other team. And then you and Odin would go somewhere else and it would split up. Pretty much. Yeah. But I think that's the NBA now. Yeah. These guys are being trained from age 12, 13 to be, to just be thinking what's next for me. Oh, I should go here. Well, I'm going to go, oh, that guy wants me to play. I'm going to go this way.

See, and for someone like you, that might not be that crazy because to you, you just, you're kind of like a generation removed and you're like, that just must be how kids are. For me, it's like, am I that old? Cause like, I don't feel like- I'm two generations removed. Yeah, that's what I mean. I think you're one though. I'm like one generation. I don't know. I don't feel like I'm that old. I know I'm older, but like it wasn't that long ago. But I don't even think it's a big deal to these guys.

It's weird how it happened that fast. Yeah. This is just how it goes now. I was on that team. Now I'm on, but like, it wasn't that long ago. But I don't even think it's a big deal to these guys. It's weird how it happened that fast. Yeah, this is just how it goes now. I was on that team, now I'm on this team. And, you know, that's why we keep talking about it on the pod, but I was really interested that Adam Silver was so passionate about it, because I saw him right before

and I'm like, I really want to talk about this. He's like, great. I've been dying to talk about this. I'm like, alright, cool. But I think they thought these shorter contracts were going to solve all these problems and they inadvertently created these other problems. And I'm really not sure which way is better because the longer contracts,

they trap people into bad contracts and they're bitter or trap the team into you're paying Damon Stoudemire 90 million a year for seven years. And by year three, you're like, holy shit, we got five years left and that was what the 2000s were like so now it's short contracts

but all that means is movement constantly yeah I don't know how you fix it I don't know this is again as a guy who cheers

for middle America teams this is the NBA is so disheartening all the movements and all that stuff I know I bring this up all the time but

what hope do the Cavs have what hope do the Pacers ever have you're one of the only Cavs fans that I know or Ohio people that actually feels like

LeBron kind of screwed them over the second time yeah that's very bizarre yeah it's very bizarre that Ohio was like applauding him

as he left we went to his last game together his last game together. Yeah, we did. We were there in game four. And you were upset that the Cleveland fans were like so kind of passively thankful, but kind of knew he was going to leave. It was really strange.

It was kind of sad. It's not that you shouldn't be happy about the title that he brought to Cleveland. It's more that like he came back with this, like his whole, the whole second stint was like I'm coming home this is home this will always be home this is where I want my family to be yeah um I'm sorry about last time and then he started doing like the college thing he's like I went to Miami for college you know I never got to go to college so Miami was kind of my college and I was there for four years but now I'm back home and I'm gonna this is where I want to be

film the one and a half minute Nike commercial. Yeah. And I get it. Like they were a mess. The team was horrible. He was carrying them on his, I get all that. It was just like, I don't know. This is weird.

It's just weird that Ohio was like, okay, thanks man. Thanks for the one title. Well, especially he left them with just in wreckage. Yeah. With these terrible contracts that he made them sign and they were missing a bunch of first round picks that he made them trade we we did when we were doing our live podcast we were in columbus which isn't cleveland but like there's a symbiotic relationship between the two cities a lot of caps fans and and i i asked the people about lebron i was like do we

still like lebron in ohio i'm not really sure the place erupted they're like yeah we love them and everyone yeah and i was like making the same points and they're just like we don't care we want a title but it is funny though I wonder uh uh the people I know they're like diehard Cleveland fans they they were like we just want one title we want to experience one title in our lives so the Cavs win it and then there does feel like these last couple years it's like the shift has gone okay so the Cavs won but what we really want is a Browns title now like everyone's on the Baker Mayfield thing yeah it's like the Cavs thing was nice but that doesn't count we really want Baker Mayfield so it does speak to what an incredible achievement that 2016 title was that Cleveland was so beaten down and just discouraged and despondent and

traumatized and got to the point which the Red Sox fans got to last decade of just like, it's never going to happen. I'm going to die and I'll never see a title. My life sucks. And then it actually happened. And they were so grateful and happy that he left two years later and basically did a 180 on every single thing he said

when he showed back up. And they're like, thanks, man. No, no, good luck, man. Good luck in LA. Good luck on a worse team in LA than you're playing with now. It's so weird. I was not raised a Cavs fan. I don't really care that much about the Cavs.

You care about Ohio, though. I care about Ohio a lot. You're an Ohio fan. So I'm not speaking from a place of authority on what a Cavs fan feels, but it's just like as a guy who's around it, I'm like it's sort of not the reaction I anticipated from the dire Cavs fans. It was one of the weirdest games I think I've ever been to. Yeah.

It really was. The energy was weird. The crowd gave up immediately, and everyone around us was like, well, he's going to leave. Yeah. This is it. Get a picture of him. He's gone.

Yeah. And it was like, wow, really? He hasn't said anything yet. And everybody was just out, but not mad at all. There was no bitterness at all. It was, it was like,

they just, I don't know. I don't blame them. You know, I would do the same thing. We suck. The city sucks. We suck.

Oh man. I love you, LeBron. Thanks for the title. I mean, that was, man. Yeah.

It's like, if sports are a marriage, this was like, you were married to somebody. They left, married some guy, some plastic surgeon in Miami

for four years. Then we're like, I'm ready to come home. Let's get back together with the kids. Great. We'll buy a house. It'll be awesome.

And then four years later, I'm going to leave. I'm going to go to LA. I'm like, oh, that's cool. We have one more kid. It's great. Now we get three kids. I don't know. This is great, oh, that's cool. We have one more kid. It's great. Now we get three kids.

I don't know. This is great, man. But it is working out for LeBron in LA. It's working out well for him. It's working out for all parties. Kyrie seems happy. LeBron seems happy. Cleveland seems happy. Nobody's happy. I want to say poor LeBron, but he

was 100% responsible. Watching last night when he's hugging these dudes after he breaks MJ's record that he probably barely even has met a couple times or interacted with. And the crowd's just kind of, yeah, great job, LeBron. And what that would have meant if he had done it in Cleveland. Oh, my God. That would have been a 10-minute standing ovation.

So maybe that's when he must have been like shit. So who do you have for the tournament? You're coming back before March Madness. Yeah, yeah. So I'll just say

You think it's top heavy. General thoughts is it's top heavy. Duke, like if we're assuming Zion's back, which I think we should because I think he's going

to come back and Duke will be fine. Duke, Gonzaga, Virginia are all kind of the top tier. I think Carolina's pretty good. I think Kentucky's okay, but this definitely feels like a year where a one or a two seed's going to win it, which I know that if you don't really follow the

NCAA tournament, you'd say, doesn't that happen every year? I don't think that's necessarily the case. There are some years where we're going in where I'm like, I don't know. This is a crap shoot. I don't believe that strongly in the ones. There are some years where we're going in where I'm like, I don't know, this is a crap shoot. I don't believe that strongly in the ones. This one is a year that the teams at the top are definitely better than everyone else.

Gonzaga 11-2? I think they're the best team in the country. Yeah. We watched them beat Duke. They're the only team that's beat Duke when Duke's at full strength.

Kentucky 12-1. Kentucky's- Carolina 12-1 and also, no credit at all for destroying Duke in that Zion game I know the energy shifts

happened and all that but North Carolina played really well in that game I think that's going to actually help Carolina because they like nobody believes in us

but no one's believing in them they're like sort of they're playing well but they don't have like a target on their back because like there's always the asterisk next to Zion

and he's not you know K's saying he's not going to play Saturday so it'd be awesome if they beat Duke again and it's still like a wellisk next to Zion. K's saying he's not going to play Saturday, so it'd be awesome if they beat Duke again. It's still like a, well, it doesn't really count type thing. But Carolina's really good. I think Carolina will be the third one.

I think the ACC is going to have three one seeds, which is pretty wild. ACC, the tournament's in Charlotte this year. Oh, yeah. That's good for North Carolina, right? Yeah, well, generally, yeah. But I think they get a lot of... It's usually in Greensboro, so they get a good crowd anyway.

It's going to be a fun one. Virginia is really, really good. I will say that a lot of people are counting on Virginia because they lost to a 16 seed last year, which was bad. It is a scarlet letter. But they didn't have their best player. They didn't have DeAndre Hunter, who's probably going to be a top 10 pick. He was on the team all year last year, got hurt for that game.

I don't know. If you listen to our've i've like made this point a billion times but uh that does matter like they still shouldn't have lost to a 16 seed but that that guy is that good that like i don't know that like that game almost doesn't even matter to me as i'm filling out my bracket this year because i think virginia is really really good so who's my favorite 2019 college basketball player that I haven't fallen in love with yet that's not Zion that I'm going to fall in love with when I watch his tournaments? If you catch him in the right time,

I would say Kobe White on Carolina, their point guard. I love him. He's a little streaky, though, but he could drop. I mean, he had 34 the other day. I think you'd really like him. He's like 6'4 and fast and can shoot and doesn't hesitate. He plays like an NBA player, and he's a freshman. He's a one-and-done guy.

I think you'd really like him. Do you like Morant? He's got a big afro. You like Morant or no? Yeah, he's good. I don't even know if he'll make the tournament, though. That's the problem. He's a good player, yeah.

But he could win his league, though. Yeah, he could win the league tournament. But Belmont is kind of better than them. That's the problem he's a good player yeah but he could win he could win his league though and then yeah he could win the league tournament yeah but the belmont is like kind of better than them that's the issue that we really need like a when you really need like three or four spots for teams that just get automatic you know like a storyline automatic bid for a guy like him it's like your team's not that good but like god damn we really want to see job can we just sneak you in can we just figure this out ben simmons would have been another good one just like god damn we really want to see John Moran can we just sneak you in can we just figure this out Ben Simmons would have been another good one that year yeah like Ben Simmons another one

it's just like come on we gotta figure this out if you're gonna be a top four lottery pick you have to be in the tournament you automatically get in yeah that's a good rule

I like that is there is there a heat check guy that I'm gonna fall in love with oh man by the way I was finally right on Buddy Heald it took like five years

and I gave up on him and turned on him I mean Marcus Howard would be the guy Marquette he's a shooter that just like has no conscience and will uh he's he's a big time scorer uh you i think you would like him a lot um they just lost though the other day marquette 40 to 1 yeah i don't think i don't they're not good enough to win the national title but he's good enough to like like they're good enough to beat they're good enough to win a game or two that they have no business winning just because he goes for like 40 something you know so all right well we'll hear

all of it on one shining podcast thanks for coming on yeah hey let's take a break to talk about zoom when you zoom every day is a little bit better zoom video communications the web's best reviewed video conference service it's used by millions to meet one-on-one or hundreds at a time. With Zoom Video Conferencing, you can connect face-to-face with anyone across town or around the world using flawless videos, clear audio, and instant sharing of files, videos, anything. You can connect through any device, desktop, laptop, tablet, smartphone, conference room system, whatever you want. Zoom video conferencing, Zoom rooms, Zoom video webinars, Zoom phone. I wish they had a Zoom podcast. I just could add my next three guests. We could have just Zoomed it in. Zoom phone puts state-of-the-art tech at

your fingertips, lets you do business at the speed of Zoom. And if you're not using Zoom video communications, I only have one question. Why not? What's wrong with you? I'll make it super easy for you. Visit Zoom online, set up a free account today, free. Try the most affordable and reliable video communication solution on the market. I have actually used Zoom in the last few weeks and it was shockingly easy. Meet happy with Zoom. Check it out right now. All right. This is fun. We're doing the young edition of The Ringer. Even Isaac Lee produced in this segment. All the youngins are here. Haley O'Shaughnessy, Dana Chow, Kevin O'Connor. Lots of NBA stuff going on. Kevin just came back from Sloan. We were talking about Sloan Conference before we came on,

which I feel like has evolved and also stayed exactly the same. It's like 2,000 people. I'm not sure why half the people are there. People can't love numbers this much, and yet they love it. They just love it. It's unbelievable. People eat it up, Bill. I think the panels are at least interesting. I think for young kids, a lot of high school kids and college kids trying to get their foot in the door.

A lot of star power. You got some GMs and players now. You've never been though, right? I've never been. But one question, has like the fashion sense gotten any better in the past 10 years? No. What's a typical fit? A suit?

Is the casual fan going in a suit? It's a wide range of business casual. You'll see some sweaters over, you know, buttons up, button ups, or sometimes you'll see people just full out fitted suit. It varies. I apparently, I wasn't dressed up enough because when they tweeted out the video and I was just wearing like whatever. And my dad and my uncle Don read all the replies

and like, thanks for getting dressed up. My dad like loves that stuff. He loves whatever I'm getting insulted anywhere. So he thought that was funny. Is that why ESPN cut you off? You know, I'm glad you brought that up. Okay, that's actually really funny. This turned into a 24-hour sports story.

And it's like, I thought it was funny. I just assumed they were worried about using my likeness or something and I was just making fun of Jalen because it's Jalen's show you hear my voice

at one point but then it turned into this whole thing and people were like unbelievably petty decision by ESPN and I was like I don't know if it was

that complicated but they put me on the jump so I get along really well with ESPN it was a million years ago. It's fine. It really feels like it. It really does feel like Danny was there for the last

days. I was there for the final three weeks. It was a debacle. I still have the Grantland icon on my phone. But yeah, it was a long time ago, but it also was a really long time ago. I don't know. I don't have any bitterness left. Anyway, let's talk basketball.

You want to talk about the Celtics first? You want to talk about LeBron? I think let's open with LeBron. Okay. That news just broke. So the news just broke that LeBron James, what do we call it? A minutes? Minutes restriction.

28 to 32? Minutes restriction and won't play back-to-backs. Load management. What is the reason for this? Tanking. Tanking. Absolutely. Oh, I think that they said health.

I mean, obviously they said health. The real reason is tanking because right now the Lakers are in that slot where they have about a 6% chance of going into the top four. But if they just lose a couple more games and slide into that nine spot, they could have around 20% chances. So they could essentially triple their odds of landing a top four pick, which would ultimately

give them a better asset, potentially, for Anthony Davis. So you think this is all Davis-driven? I think at this point, now that, you know, they're not in the playoffs,

it kind of has to be. And I think, as KLC was talking about, bringing those odds up, because with the draft kind of lottery smoothing out of the odds, basically the best spot to be in is from 7, 8, 9, because that's where your odds actually doubled from last year's.

And so you're getting like 8, 9% chances of getting the number one pick. Yeah. So the new rule led to more tanking. I thought it was funny because last night the Mavs won. chances of getting the number one pick. Yeah. So the new rule led to more tanking. I thought it was funny because last night the Mavs won. And now all of a sudden, like they're very close to getting into a really good position to keep their pick. Which is important.

It's top five. Yeah. Which I thought was hilarious. It being the Mavs because Cuban last year was like openly said that he was tanking on Dr. J's podcast yeah and then all of a sudden he might end up benefiting from these flattened odds Haley you mean the Mavs lost the bet you said one yeah they lost which I guess now technically we could say you mean they won by losing they won by losing yeah exactly but I don't think that

they're tanking but now I don't know why you wouldn't. They're pretty close to Memphis. The Mavs are in the worst spot for tanking of all of these because they want Luka to win Rookie of the Year. So you can't put him on a minutes restriction. But you basically have to. I mean, they're a threat to play Mark Cuban in the last five games, potentially. It's powerful. It would be a great move by Dallas.

We're just going to try this. Sell some tickets. Spot up in the corner. Cuban jersey. 22% from three or something like that. Other than the Knicks, what's your dream team to win Zion? Because I have a surprising pick. I think Atlanta.

Atlanta would be really fun. Minus Atlanta as well. Wow. Yeah, that'd be great. John Collins and Trey Young. That'd be really fun. It's proto-Warriors. You basically build the entire template all over again.

It'd be really beautiful to watch that squad. A lot of guys who can handle the ball, space. I think the most surprising two things that have happened this year, and I can just sense from our Slack, is how many of us have really enjoyed the Kings and the Hawks. The Kings are so much fun. They're so lovable. Last night, I mean,

for us, that was such a fun game. I actually thought it was going to play out with the Celtics losing. We should. Once he fouled. They've lost those kind of games all year. Once Gordon Hewitt fouled at the yield, I thought they were going to lose. Yeah, they actually won that one.

So, KOC, since you wrote about the Celtics on Monday, did you give your Zion pick, by the way? You think it's Atlanta too? I mean, I would go Atlanta. Honestly, like there are a couple of teams, so I just want them to be good again. Wizards is worst case scenario. Wizards is worst case scenario. Wizards is worst case,

because then the guy's stuck there forever. That's a disaster. That's basically what I predicted in my tanking column earlier this week. I was like, the Wizards actually are in a spot where their odds are so high compared to where it should be

that I can totally see Knicks fans losing their minds because the Wizards jump up. That'd be a rough one. And the Suns just because they just don't deserve it at this point. Just stop. You can't play those two together.

You can't play Aiden and Zion together. I would like to see those guys together. KFC is such an Aiden stan. Aiden's gotten better defensively every single month. He's having an extremely efficient offensive season. Some clutch moments on really important games. Hey, they did win the two games against Giannis and LeBron. True.

Yeah, they beat the Lakers. Aiton is a primary defender against those guys. You're really shrinking the court, though, for a lot of the shooters. Yeah, I know. And neither of them can shoot. And that's one of the problems with that combination, for sure. He wants Zion to go to a better front office situation. Yes, yes. I mean, I want him to go to a better front office situation? Yes. Yes.

I mean, I want him to play with Luka. That's my alternate take. So Zion, KP, and Luka would be out of control.

It would be like alternate dimension Knicks, which is exactly what I wanted to see. Yeah, it's amazing. The Mouths are somehow

in a really great position for the summer because think about it, they have KP, they have a chance of this pick, right? It's most likely not going to be Zion. They have $30 million in cap space.

Yeah. Like, they are in a very, very good position. And then a year from now, they just have all cap space. I guess they'd have to pay Porzingis at that point, right? They have a year to convince him to stay around. I'd want to play with Luka Doncic. Or maybe you punt that space at 2021, and that's the year you're chasing Giannis.

But both Atlanta and Dallas are in interesting spots, though because of the the years they've had and their young players excelling they could try to accelerate their rebuild by trying to be getting guys the summer with the cap space that they have so they're in a good shape with Porzingis and I think they saw this where you're the team after the Knicks it's like the relationship after somebody's had a terrible relationship and you're just the next person they dated and you seem amazing. You're just like, hey, I got you a gift. What? You got me a gift?

This is great. Text back within a day. Yeah. And with Porzingis, he's like, wow, look at these lockers. Oh my God. Whoa, you have food before the game? Cuban can really play that up too. He knows how to host a lawyer. Yeah.

Hey, we got equipment. Why don't you use my jet to fly here? Like he's doing all that stuff. I ran an office club. Yeah. Just quickly on Boston, because I talked about Boston way too much the other day, but I just want to mention some intel

since you wrote your piece. So there's this legendary plane ride that apparently happened on the way to Golden State. And I think there's a chance. I don't want to get too caught up in it, like in the hope of it, but I think it really might've changed the season. It started with Kyrie talked to Brad Stevens and they had a big heart to heart about everything.

And then Kyrie asked to talk to the whole team and they had this huge life talk on the plane. And Kyrie apparently was like apologizing to everybody. And like, I'm not handling this well. I'm sorry. I'm not doing this. He said, I've been a dick and just kind of did the whole thing and led to all these conversations. And that's why that Warriors game, it was like, what team is this?

They're like cheering for each other. They're high-fiving. So will it last for a week? What do you think? Will it last for... Is this a new... What do you think, Kaylee? Is this a short-term thing or should I be excited? What's the actual situation with Kyrie?

What's the situation with everyone's health? Even if they're all getting along. Do we all agree now that Gordon Hayward is a completely recovered man? No. And what's Kyrie's durability? There are so many questions other than just if they get along. You didn't mention Al Horford either. Exactly.

Getting along is the first thing. I don't know if he can play back-to-backs anymore. Or at the level that he's at. Right. And if they get the Sixers in the first round, they need Al Horford. We own the Sixers. Bring the Sixers on. It's that frisky Pacers team

that scares me. That'd be like a classic losing to a team that you have three times as much talent than and who just plays better and likes each other worse. Is there a precedent

for this type of Pacers team to actually make it to the second round and scare teams? So, the Artest melee season, they beat the Celtics in 05. And if you go back to my espn archives i'm i'm like losing my mind we had like nine of the best 11 players in the series right it was like rick carlyle reggie miller and jermaine

o'neill and just a bunch of like uh whatever's and they just had better chemistry well i mean technically wouldn't that series be kind of like what Boston put off last year? Yeah. Because Boston has the better talent on their teams. Well, that was the fluke of last year. The Phillies should have made the finals. And they just kind of weren't ready to do whatever it took in that series. But Boston was certainly not better than them.

Are you really not scared of Philadelphia at all? I mean, I'm not. I'm scared of everybody. But, I mean, the team that I just don't think they can beat is Toronto sorry Danny I'm just queuing you up putting on a platter I need them to make the finals that Toronto matchup is just

frightening the problem with Toronto is just the lineups that they can they just have answers for anything. They can put the bigger one, they can put the smaller one, they can go athletic. I'm not entirely convinced of their reserves, though. Jeremy Lin hasn't looked great.

Norman Powell has kind of fallen off over the past few weeks. I just wish they had one more competent 3 and D wing. 3 and D wing? Yeah. like well now it's too late right now the playoff thing has passed it's too late but you know and that's where boston's interesting where you know you mentioned how is it fixed now how long does this last who knows like this has happened over the course of the full season with them where they've had like losing streaks and then they turn it around for four or five games and then they go back the other way so this could just be another high for them but you know I get back to what Kyrie has said multiple times this season where he said after game 70 is all that

matters that's when you lock in and you put aside your ego and you're just doing what's best for the team if Kyrie's right about that well Boston I think does have the same you know the advantages that Toronto does with the ability to match up and play different styles. But the chemistry aspect that has not been there all season long, and I think it's probably unreasonable to expect it to be there now, though that plane ride thing is interesting. Could be a legendary plane ride. I don't know. Remember that time, Kyrie and the plane man, the whole season turned, we went 28 straight. That was unbelievable. Every time I think about the Celtics, though, and I feel like when you play in the whole season turned. We went 28 straight. That was unbelievable. Every time I think about the Celtics, though,

and I feel like when you play in the regular season, there are so many distractions. But when you play in the playoffs, you're literally only focusing on one team, and I think that's what will help the Celtics, where they don't have these other distractions that they have to tend to. That's a fair point.

Plus, Haley's on my side, at least with, on the ringer slack with the Celts. Cause we have a Louisville guy. Terry. Yeah. Yeah. Your dude,

Terry. I mean, I'll always be cheering for him. Haley went to Louisville in case you don't understand what that means. But. You have some good ones in the playoffs to share. But. But.

We do. But. But. Terry's kind of been a little bit of Kyrie's problem, right? In what way? So I don't know if the Celtics' ultimate success would be Terry's success. And on your last podcast, you said that you thought that they made a mistake not trading him early on. Well, I think it would have uncluttered the whole—well, KFC reported Phoenix.

They'd gone to Phoenix for 40 minutes a game. I'm so glad he didn't go to Phoenix. That would have been great. That would have been a cool backcourt. Rozier and Booker. I know I'm a son's Stan over here. It's like, but then when do you hear this guy again? You know, when are you watching him again

and you're not on like somebody's league pass or streaming it? They might be the team that pays him this summer though. I still like Terry. Like even he ran the team last night and he's just a good defensive player. He obviously is somebody that needs to play 40 minutes a game. He's one of those guys.

Some guys are like that. Yes, his motor never stops going. I remember when he was getting drafted, and everyone was talking about his size, I would always point to the rebounds. Because if someone like that scrappy is going in for every rebound against super tall guys, you know you can count on that. Yeah, and he has like a 6'10 wingspan.

He's an elite rebounder for his position, for sure. The listeners are mad now that I got you guys talking about the Celtics game. Just quickly, East pick, and then we'll talk LeBron. East pick right now. To get out of the East? Yeah, right now. I'm going Bucs. I'm going Bucs.

The Raptors. Bucs. I'm going Toronto right now. But I will change my mind seven times. I probably will too. Here's what worries me about Milwaukee. It's a lot of Eric Bledsoe and he's been awesome.

He's been really good, but I still feel like game six on the road, down 3-2, down five with seven minutes left and Eric Bledsoe's just like, guys, I got this. And I could see it unraveling.

I think Charks actually, he brings this up all the time, but the Bucs' acquisitions of Miritich and then Pau Gasol has really worried him. And just the idea that like, you're just burying DJ Wilson, who is your most capable,

you know, switchable, young defender. And when you don't have the confidence of him in the playoffs, you're trotting out these old guys who, you know what they're capable of. You don't know what DJ Wilson's capable of. You would much rather have me or Titch than DJ Wilson. Well, yeah. But like, Pau Gasol.

Pau Gasol, I did not agree with. I would assume he's going to be like in case Brooke Lopez you know gets hurt or something like that in case of emergency I would be stunned if he's part of

the regular rotation that's what I'm worrying about I don't know you know a part of me wondered if that was just a chemistry acquisition because he's

just a good guy old guy he's been in a million games if it's game four of some playoff series, Lopez gets 5,000 third quarter, and then you're like, all right, this guy's been there. We can put him out. Right, because—

We don't know that with DJ Wilson. Is there anyone else on the Bucs roster who has won a championship? No, I mean, there's guys in that— I don't know if anyone in that roster has even been in Eastern or Western Finals, right? I mean, Bud So, the Clippers, they never got to the Western Finals. A lot of inexperience. I like—we'll see if they hold up. The big question with Toronto, and I think if they can stay healthy, that would be the one to fear, is just Lowry's body and Gasol's body.

Sure. And whether those—you know, once you get into every game— And Kawhi's, too. And Kawhi's too. And Kawhi, but he's pretty good. He's in load management all year. I will say, watching that Celtics-Warriors game, I thought, I was shocked by the Warriors, how slow they seemed. I know they didn't have clay, but just in general, like, it's just not the same kind

of athletic team that they had. And I think part of it goes with the bench and just the bench they have this year. Right, right. Well, I was also going to say, do you think any of that has to do with Boogie? I think a lot of it has to do with Boogie. I think he looked good initially,

but now he looks slow to me. The Celtics were torching him in that game. I wonder if Boogie looking good was the initial shock of him returning and looking solid when really his solid is still inferior to what he was before. Yeah. And it might have like empowered him. Well, inferior, but also just like you have to think about how it fits.

I mean, yeah, he can shoot threes, which automatically makes people think you'd be a good fit on the Warriors. But if you're not, if you're inherently kind of a slower, bigger guy, now coming off of an Achilles injury, you're not going to be able to keep up. He's going to get attacked, I'd rather say, in the playoffs.

And that team, that game against the Celtics, what did you think about the comment by KD after the game, just the little shot at Kerr in a way saying, That was weird. That was odd, huh? That was so weird. I thought it was all about joy. I figured that out.

What is the point of attacking your coach or making that kind of remark about your coach? Is that geared toward the media when you're asking, like, can you guys just get it straight? Or is that like a Kerr thing? I don't know. I think he was just kind of being a smartass. Like, that was...

I didn't really think much of it. If somebody at the ringer did that to Fantasy, I'd be like, what the fuck is going on? Why did Danny say that? Why did he throw Fantasy under the bus? I feel like I would totally do that. Let's have a meeting. I feel like I would totally do that.

Meeting right now. I want to know what happened. Yeah, my favorite boogie was that we've never seen a 290-pound guy come back from this injury. It just seemed at least a tiny bit unrealistic. And you watch them in 2015 and 2016, and they're just so athletic and so fast.

And then he brings a different element that I really liked when I initially watched it. And the more I watch it defensively, it just seems like it makes them a little more plodding, which I'm not sure is good for them. Are they still your final pick, though? Yeah. Hell yeah. What is the one thing at this point that could tear them apart

and stop them from... Injuries and just the chemistry. The red flags for them are just... We've seen other teams in this situation where there's all these red flags and we just overlook them because of the pedigree. But that's usually when bad stuff happens. That's when

the 0-4 Lakers against the Pistons happen. You know, it's... Which two guys not getting along is the worst case scenario? I think it has to be KD and Draymond, right? Draymond and anybody is the worst. Yeah, Draymond and anybody. I think with those two guys, maybe it's already

there. It would be like KD and like Steph or something like that if that were to happen I don't think you can feud with Steph though yeah he's just a grown up I don't think

he's a dad you know he's a grown up he's got kids yeah he's like normal even if he it does have like negative feelings towards KD he would put it aside

when he's actually on the court rendering it irrelevant right and Klay is the most popular guy in the league like every literally everybody loves that dude. Everything bounces off Clay.

I mean, really, Draymond and Boogie would be, you know, like two countries in the Middle East deciding that they didn't like each other. Everybody going, oh God. Oh no. Please. Get along. Do we know the state of their friendship right now? It seems good.

He came to his defense like this week. The state of this union seems good. But Boogie is one of those fly off the handle. And Draymond's a little like this too, where they fly off the handle and they kind of unravel for like 10 seconds and can't kind of lose control. My son is like this too. So I'm well aware. My son's 11, unfortunately. So you would say whose biggest threat to Golden on state right now we all say houston yeah what is the i had okay two weeks ago and i

think yeah what's going on with paul george do we know do we know i don't think there's like an official update about the state of his health right now so i will cover it in the celtics plane ride or no they talk about they fix paul george's body or no what is exactly wrong with him oh my god i have to look it up i honestly i honestly don't know it's it's very mysterious mysterious yeah koc knows he doesn't want to say koc you know i don't know tell us i don't know but i would say houston because Does it want to say? KFC, you know. Fucking tell us. I don't know. Tell us. But I would say Houston because I'm just thinking about

putting James Harden against DeMarcus Cousins in pick and roll and him and Chris Paul in switches against Jermon. I honestly don't think Cousins could play in that series. Yeah, he wouldn't be able

to play that much. You'd have to basically take him off the court. You'd put him pick and roll every single possession. My two fares with Houston other other than all the obvious ones, were Harden, the physical toll of the season, what would he have left for those last four rounds.

And then I just watching Chris Paul, it's like, is Chris Paul a lead anymore? Can he still be the number two scorer? And then you watch him the last couple weeks and it's like, oh, Chris Paul, okay. He's beating big guys again. I feel like the Rockets will kind of have to stagger their minutes just to make sure there's an elite option

every single time down the floor just because that's all the Rockets really have. I think you look at Houston last year going to seven games. If they didn't have that 0-27 stretch from three in game seven. You throw those 27 straight threes away. Yeah. I mean, things would be different. We'd be looking back, either the Cavs beat the Rockets or Rockets, James

Harden's an NBA champion and nobody's talking about how he chokes. That would have been such a storybook run. And as like the biggest D'Antoni fan at the ringer, it would have made my heart grow like five sizes. So, Paul George has a sore right shoulder. Which is just as non-specific enough to be suspicious.

Could that be like a torn rotator cuff and they're not telling us? That's kind of suspicious. What do you know, KOC? You know stuff. I don't know anything. You look so guilty right now. I've only heard rotator cuff, but I don't know what. I don't know if it's a serious or minor, like a sprain.

That's kind of the thing. That's kind of the thing this season, right? All of these injury updates that we've gotten from almost every team has been more vague than they've been in the past. It's becoming not quite like hockey. Lower body, upper body. They're vague and then the timetable has been completely

unreliable for so many of these injuries. Well, I mean, when you have a star player in the finals with a broken hand and it's not announced until after the finals are over, a team probably feels like, oh, we're not going to... Man, LeBron's injury timeline this year was... and what they told the media was insane.

The goalposts kept moving. Do you remember when we heard... Allegedly. Allegedly broken hand. Remember, I think it was after Game 4 or before Game 4, we texted like, are you hearing anything about LeBron's hand? And there was really nothing concrete out there. Then boom, the second the game's over, it's like out there within an hour.

Well, he started it early. He started shaking hands with people with his left hand. So he was paving the way for the post-game, whatever the, with the carpal tunnel thing that he had on his hand, that was like allegedly for the broken hand. And we all kind of let it go. Yeah, Chris Ryan wore that like a few years ago.

Yeah, we all let it go. Like we let go a lot of things with LeBron. We're gonna talk about him in one second right after this break. Let's take a quick break, talk about Hulu Plus. Hey, once you've experienced Hulu Plus, it's a little like winning 12 sports titles in a century, Isaac.

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Hulu today at Hulu dot com okay LeBron James could this have worked out LeBron James Check it out. Free trial. Hulu today at Hulu.com. Okay. LeBron James. Could this have worked out?

Barring injury, could this have worked out worse? I'm trying to think of any scenario that could have been worse. They would have made the playoffs if he was, if he never got injured. They were the four seed on Christmas. I would put so much money on that. Yeah. KC, what was their- No. They were the four seed on Christmas. I would put so much money on that. Yeah. KC, what was their...

No, they were the six seed, KC, when he went out. Okay, six seed. They were the six seed. At the end of the Christmas Day games, they were the six seed. At some point,

they were four seed. But you checked out the numbers and like, what were they on pace to win? They were on pace to win 48 games. And now that's with net rating,

point differential, and also just the wins-paced show. But I thought their schedule was about to get harder, and that was the other thing. It was. They have a really difficult finish to the schedule. But there's no way. Like, they would have made the playoffs.

They would have got out in the first round, and it would have been... Maybe. I mean, because it wasn't just LeBron's injury, though. It was, you know, Lonzo Ball, their best defender, has been out been out Ingram right now is out and Kuzma is also out too so it's like these guys have only played I think I forget them off the top of my head maybe 15 games together those four this is a way better outcome than getting killed by the Warriors I'm sorry well I mean it is but at the same time how much of this current Kuzma and Ingram stuff is kind of like what we saw with LeBron today where they're pivoting to, you know, next season?

Hey, that's the right move. Conspiracy theories. That's the right move. That's my kind of content right there. The only thing I'll say about LeBron getting injured, he has played like 57,000 minutes and he's played 18 years and just had a hundred game season. And this is what happens when you're putting all your eggs in this basket. Like, I think it's actually a little unrealistic to expect 3000 minutes from the guy at this point in his life. We've, we've seen this happen, you know, with Kobe, with Peyton Manning, all these different people where you just had

some, it's Tom Brady right now. You just assume it's going to keep going. And at some point it's not sustainable. Right, you're putting less and less around LeBron each year. It's just so unprecedented, the amount of minutes he's played at 34. Yeah. Everyone above him was... Was like 40 by the time they finished this.

They were like the tail end of their careers. And that's where it's like scary seeing him amongst those players. So him and Dirk are basically neck and neck and Dirk has how many years on him like at least five six yeah he I started to become obsessed with this I think when I was on countdown like five years ago because he he might have passed like 40,000 minutes and I were 35 and I was like oh my God. And I looked it up and had no parallel to basically anything that had happened other than, uh, Kobe. Right. And if you remember with Kobe, it was the same thing. I was like, how's this guy doing it? And then like his Achilles snapped. It was over. So, you know, that's part of it. The other thing is like, I just keep looking

at this from LeBron standpoint standpoint where it just seems like this was poorly conceived where it's like he had so much confidence in himself. This, ah, it'll be fine. I'm LeBron James. And just really didn't think like, well, what happens if we don't get anybody else? What do we do then? That's's this is how it plays out i mean it's not like lebron would ever punt on a season um but with that said it seems like he just did well yeah for i mean i mean in the beginning like before the season like except that this would not be a year that they made the playoffs but like now that it's happened i mean getting that extra month or two of rest before recording space jam in in June is not the worst thing in the world for the longevity of his career to get that extra time off instead of making it, even if it's a run until late April or even midnight.

So I've heard this case. It's not bad. I actually think this is an abject disaster for him because you're coming off this May and June where it's like, this guy's the goat. Oh, my God. This guy really, this is it. And then from basically the moment that JR, maybe it's like the curse of JR Smith. From the moment that JR Smith play happens, it's like everything has gone wrong for this dude,

including I think one of the biggest what ifs of this decade. And if I was writing another edition of my book, I would have to include this. Like, what if Paul George goes to the Lakers as now like a top 50 NBA what if? Because he's been one of the three or four best guys in the league. And if it's LeBron if Paul George goes to the Lakers? There's now like a top 50 NBA what if because he's been one of the three or four best guys in the league. And if it's LeBron and Paul George, and then you could trade Kuzma or Ingram

and get a rim protector and now things are happening. I mean, in that what if scenario, does LeBron, you know, cede as much control as Westbrook does? I think LeBron's been waiting to cede control. I think he's looking for the next moment. Like we always point out, there's all these articles every year about the new ways aging into his game, right?

Two years ago, he was walking the ball down the court. Now he's like passing it and then staying above the break and watching the play play out. I think that that's the next step for him is to have enough trust in the next guy. Think about it. This year, his second leading scorer has been Kuzma.

Okay, last year was Kevin Love. That's a significant step up. Does Kuzma ever make an all-star team? I would say no. Probably not. He's 24 at this point. What is Kuzma? He's 17 and 7?

Right. 18 and 7? Exactly. And before Kevin Love, it was Kyrie. Before Kyrie, it was Dwayne Wade. Dway's 17 and 7? Right. 18 and 7? Exactly. And before Kevin Leather, it was Kyrie. Before Kyrie, it was Dwayne Wade. Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh. Before him, it was Bill Williams in 2009. Boogie Gibson.

Yeah. So I think that that is where it went the most wrong. But I do think that it would have went well with Paul George because I think he's been waiting to cede control to somebody else. Control might not be the best word, but definitely share more than he ever has before. That's why it's so important for them to get

AD because if it's not AD, then who is it? Are you throwing money at Jimmy Butler? That's not going to get done. Who will it be if it's not going to be a trade for AD? I'm just not sure who the target is. Does Jimmy Butler get three years? He could be in for a rude awakening.

Yeah, no. It's got to be like two years, right? That's got to be the max. Something like that, yeah. It's like irresponsible to give him three years. Is he 30 yet? Or is he still 29? He's 33.

I think one of two things happens. Either a team like a Phoenix type, not necessarily them, but a Phoenix type and Orlando type just is like you know what screw it we're gonna throw a lot of money at this guy it's like the Blake Griffin trade but for but assigning and yeah yeah I think that's something that could end up happening with a long-term deal I wouldn't recommend that me neither with the uh Jesus where do you think you think LeBron after like three glasses of wine he's with his buddies at some point

he's like man I should have done this what do you think he says Danny you go first what do you think he says to Dwayne Wade on their second bottle of Cabernet is Gabrielle Union

asleep next to them on the couch and LeBron's wife's in bed and he's like hey man Dwayne I gotta tell you something. What does he say? I don't know.

Oh, Haley knows. I do know. This is where he went wrong. So he made he righted a wrong that he had last time when he left to go to Miami. Right. Which was that he very much made it seem this way. I'm not saying he orchestrated all of this, but when he went to LA, he was like, look, you guys can't blame me, right? Cleveland, like I gave you a championship. Look at the owner I've

dealt with. Look at this front office. Look at this roster. Okay. Nobody was mad at him for leaving. I don't think, I mean, Titus still talks about Cavs fans still being LeBron fans. He's on earlier in this podcast. We were talking about LeBron left wreckage behind him. If I... And all those contracts that they signed because they were afraid he was going to leave. If I listen to this podcast and hear a Rick Pitino reference. No, there's no Pitino.

Earlier. Okay, good. Listen, the ringer is Pitino friendly these days. Now. We ran like the most important Patino feature. We sent somebody to Greece. How dare you? Shout out John Gonzalez.

But anyway, where he went wrong was not on image. It was on preparation because he very much knew the team he was walking into going to Miami, right? There was a lot that, and I don't know what happened behind the scenes. I don't know if he really thought they were going to get Paul George to sign there. I don't know if they thought it was a sure thing that they could get Anthony Davis traded, but the actual preparation of the team is where he went wrong. Well, it seems like, remember, go back and read the stories. Like it seemed like he was heavily involved with who they picked and there was that whole thing about how they wanted it they didn't want a team just to shooters they wanted a tough team defensive identity one-year deals yeah and like i was wrong about

this team right with the guys that they added to me i looked at it from a you know an asset perspective like all one-year deals setting up for next summer but like that may not work out the way that i expected it and i wonder for lebr you know, on his second bottle of wine, if he's thinking, I don't know if I can trust. Wait, second bottle or third glass? Where are we at? I don't know. How drunk is he? They opened a second bottle.

They're just opening it. They're just opening it. Okay. They're not going to drink off it. I think with LeBron, it would be about a lack of trust in the decision makers more than anything else. I don't think he would regret going to L.A. Like his family's there. He's happy.

He has all his stuff off the court. His business is there. I doubt he regrets that at all. But it would be more of an uncertainty with what's going to happen moving forward with the decision makers. With the creative infrastructure. And who they hire as the new head coach, assuming Luke Walton gets fired, which everybody seems to expect to happen at some point. Yeah, that's what I assume would LeBron be. I predicted two weeks ago there was going to be a throw under the bus

of Palenka and Magic and Luke by some piece, but not with LeBron's fingerprints on it. And this is like today, tomorrow, Sunday, Monday is like the perfect time for that piece to run. I'll be interested to see if we see it. I mean, Saturday, primetime Laker Celtics.

Yeah. Oh man. What a weird game. That's going to be super weird, weird energy. Although now the Celtics after the miracle plane ride, one of the most miraculous plane rides in sports. Where was that plane ride going from?

How long was the, can the flight, if there's a flight attendant was that plane ride going from? How long was the... If there's a flight attendant on that plane who overheard it, can you just email us the details? That was Boston to San Francisco. So how long of a flight is that? It's like six hours. You're flying against the wind. So how long do we think he was talking to Brad?

I would say maybe 30, 40 minutes him and Brad and then... And the other four hours was the rest of the team. Kyrie seems like he's a guy who's got a lot to say. I don't think it's lasting longer than an hour, though. Right. Maybe it's an hour. And then they just play cards afterwards.

Yeah. They're all on their phones listening to Kyrie. I wonder with Kyrie how much of it and like this is me trying to put myself in his shoes I wonder how much of it is him like trying to just stir chaos

and manufacture adversity like that if he felt oh this is the way I'm going to be a leader to keep people on edge then maybe he realized this is not going to work

the Kobe LeBron method of stirring shit up time to change it up time to be cool I don't know well Kobe was way more bull in a china shop than LeBron. LeBron was like passive aggressive. LeBron is subtle.

Yeah, he's got the, you know, the Arthur fist on Instagram mood. He's got the, I mean, honestly, a lot of it can go back to Instagram. Remember when he was leaving Kevin Love out in 2016? I mean, he kind of fucked Kevin Love up. I feel like. I do feel like Kevin Love... Kevin Love got a ring. They got a ring.

Was that fit in, don't fit out? Fit in, don't fit out, yes. The stories, the behind the scenes stories of when those guys all yelled at Kevin Love last year, that was like really crazy. That is awful. That is awful. It just seemed like they had no sense of anything that... That also seemed like it was a lot of Isaiah Thomas. Yeah.

Like him having a clubhouse heat check. Yeah, exactly. I remember I've heard recently, maybe in the past year or something, when David Blatt was getting fired, Kyrie wanted to keep him, and LeBron didn't. Those two had a disagreement over that at some point. So, yeah, I think it seems like over the years in Cleveland, there was quite a lot of this. It's also interesting thinking about that in the context of Kyrie's relationship to the current Celtics organization,

because he for so long watched this guy basically have a heavy hand in everything an organization did. I mean, think about it. We're literally talking about the Lakers mistakes as LeBron's mistakes in free agency from the summer, right? What other player gets that kind of say? And Kyrie watched it. James Harden. James Harden. In signings and firing coaches.

Like, are you saying the perception? Are you saying people or players who would have that? Who currently have that? There's no way that Harden can walk in and say, fired Antony. There's no way. He looks like he knows something, Bill. I just think the five best players in the league have the power. Right.

But none of them have actually executed it other than LeBron. It's whether they use it or not. Harden's coach did get fired during the season two years ago. Kevin McHale. He got taken behind the stadium and shot, basically. Giannis. I guess it's just the most public because, like you're saying, LeBron's actually taken that power and done something with it.

The ideal guy to have as your superstar is Giannis. He's like the embodiment of everything you'd want if you were the owner. Oh, for sure. One watch when you, those commercials. Super happy to be here. The most delightful guy. He's not thinking of anything other than just winning basketball games. And that's like the easiest superstar you could ever do it.

Great guy. Great with people. That's what's going to happen if the Bucs make a finals run. The conversation will be, is Giannis the new face of the NBA? And he very well could be if the Bucs do make that. It was interesting. I've been watching them because their historical numbers were kind of interesting there for a little while.

They had like almost a plus 10 point differential, and they had a chance for 64, 65 wins at one point. Right. And it was like, what's going on here? this they it was like almost the 2008 celtics were like that where by the end of the year it was like i didn't feel like that was one of the 10 best teams ever but then by every metric they kind of were and that's where the bucks were headed but then they took a step back they lost a couple recently from a statistics point of view, they're still ranked very highly.

If you look at net rating, that includes all bad teams. The metrics are really favorable. But even if you ignore all those poor teams in the league, they still rank incredibly highly against other playoff caliber teams. When I did the Celtics story, the Celtics have the third best net rating,

but it's like the 12th best net rating against the 10 best teams. Milwaukee is still clear far and away number one, no matter what you're looking at. It's the inexperience is the only red flag, but that was the same inexperience Philly had last year. Yeah, and there are only two teams in the East,

I believe, that have a plus 500 record against plus 500 teams. So it's the Bucs and the Raptors. One team that, now I do this, I overreact when I see people in person sometimes. I did it with Kevin Knox. I really liked him and he's been a disaster I think ever since I saw him in person.

I was impressed by Portland and I think there's a sneakiness to them heading into the playoffs because of how bad last year's playoffs went which is like, that was last season. Who cares? It was also all about matchups.

Yeah, and it was just, it happens. I wouldn't want to see them in round one. Right. Well, the problem with them has been that there's just, there's the backcourt. And if that fails in the playoffs, then they don't have much else security, right? And that's what they've been building up since. Right. And they're defensively a little bit better and I actually think McCollum

taking a step back has been weirdly good for them because last year it was a little dueling banjos thing and this year he hasn't been as good. But now it's kind of Lillard's team like the game that, did you go to that game the Wednesday game? No. It really just felt like it was Lillard's team and I didn't totally feel that last year. I wouldn't want

to see them in the playoffs. I also really like Nerkic. Next time I do trade value, I'm bumping him up more. He's been really good for them. It feels like Nerkic ever since before the draft, he's always been someone who runs hot, runs cold. This year, he's running hot often. Maybe it's the situation. Maybe it's his teammates.

Maybe he's happy. Maybe he's matured. But the fact is, no matter what it is, dude's been more consistent. He's a legitimately good defensive player. Yeah, he's an elite rim protector. He really is. And I was like, can I imagine this? And I went and looked up, you know,

they have those rim protection stats, and he was in the top five. Yeah, he was in the top three last year, I believe, as well. It's just, why is Zach Collins not getting any minutes? Yeah, that's... At least they have options, though. I mean, if you need to go

more of a defensive-oriented center, you can go Collins. If you need scoring, you can go Cantor. I think the options are at least nice. They fell in love with another white guy.

Can't play Cantor. Can't play Cantor. They have Lehman now. They don't need Zach Collins. I like Cantor. I'm the only one at the ringer who still believes in him as a playoff guy. Yeah, you can put him in. He'll give you a double-double.

Lovely chance, but I, you know. Utah, you buying or selling? I'll buy them. Okay. Buy them and, like, get to round two? Yeah. I say, yeah. What happened last year is they're sealing.

They won't go further. Who would they play if it ended? I've got to look it up. I still can't buy a team that plays Jay Crowder at crunch time. I'm just, like, biased. You're scarred. And, by the way, all due respect to Jay Crowder, I like Jay Crowder, but at some point you have to have five kick-ass guys in your crunch time.

Utah would face Houston if the playoffs started today. Well, they don't even have four. So I'm not buying if it's Houston. That's not great. And they're kind of stuck in the... I think they have a really easy remaining schedule. They're kind of stuck in the three spot. They have the easiest remaining schedule.

Okay, thank you. They have the easiest remaining schedule. So maybe they'll bump up. What's the spot ahead of them? How many games back are they? Denver's a game behind Golden State now. Right now, Portland is tied with Oklahoma City for the four seed. But OKC's going to drop thanks to Paul George's torn rotator cuff

that KOC refuses to report. He needs Tommy John surgery and rotator cuff surgery. That's KOC's nervous laugh too. I don't know. He obviously got a text but can't get it confirmed. No, that's not true. It's fine.

And they're two games ahead of Utah in that sixth spot. What? Can we all agree that just get San Antonio out of there? I just can't watch them anymore. As much as I like Bertans and I've never seen them miss a shot in all the times I've watched League Pass, the Kings being in there is so much more fun for me.

The four-game Kings sweep will be epic. It's not going to happen. The Kings schedule, it's not tough, but there are some really hard games down the stretch. Houston, San Antonio, Houston, Utah, New Orleans, Portland. They don't clean up

against bad teams. All of their games are close. They suffer from young team-itis. Right, where you play up and you play down.

Bagley was a 2010 guy when he went down. That was not an insignificant injury. When that happened, I was like, fuck, they're not going to make playoffs.

I wanted it so bad. Pretty funny, at the beginning of the season, Yeager resisted playing Bagley. Turns out he's pretty good. Obviously, a rookie is going to take time to develop, but he's really come along well. If they don't make the playoffs, I think that might come back to haunt him from a long-term stability job standpoint.

Weren't there rumors or whispers in the middle of the season about his job security? They were furious about the Bagley thing. Because they're getting their ass kicked about Doncic. And meanwhile, they're like, Bagley's good. The dude's not playing him. Also, all Jaeger does

is just compliment other teams to the point where they're like, why do you still work here then? That was sort of out of context, but still. I mean, he's done it for years now, though. Yeah, if he gets knocked out of this job, I think it's going to be tough to find a third team because the Memphis thing ended really badly, too.

There were rumblings earlier in the season about Minnesota, but we'll see if they keep Ryan Saunders, which... Seems like the Minnesota thing to do. Yeah, he's on the job, I think. Well, at least with Saunders, the only thing I care about with the coach for that is can Towns get going, and Towns got fucking going. I mean, Towns is

a chance to make second team all-in. I think what they need is a player's coach. I mean, if Andrew Wiggins has any hope, it's going to be with a guy who can relate to him. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I'm not saying that I any hope, it's going to be with a guy who can relate to him. I don't know. I mean, I'm not saying that I would put hope into it, but they do need a player's coach. And he just has the literal look of it. You know, he's like a young guy and he's related to them for years on the bench.

Yeah. I just want to live in a world where Jeff Green, Cam Reddish, and Andrew Wiggins can all play together. And just be completely up and down depending on the game. You're out on Reddish. I'm not out on Reddish. Score like 135 one game in one. He's the next Jeff Green camp, though. I think he's Jeff Green 2.0.

I think he'll be better than Jeff Green, but I still feel like something about it I don't like. I mean, it's always been a question with him. The mentality and the consistency and the effort level and the finishing ability. Man, it's been bad. And the ball handling. Yeah. Well, and also, like, obviously, he's with Clutch.

We saw pictures of them leaving lunch already. And LeBron sat. That was like two years ago, too. Yeah, and LeBron sat courtside for his game. It wasn't for Zion. It was for Kevin Reddish. It was the word, yeah.

So, you know, when you have things taken care of and people promising you stuff already, your incentive kind of wanes.

The opposite is like somebody like Danny would agree to push and push him to write his award-winning food column and write about do what he does best.

Now, chow down is a sensation. More to come. What's the next chow down TBD we're still figuring out a new location

new location who's we who do you figure it out with the brain trust do you have a brain trust yeah who's on your brain trust barrier and fantasy

not Craig Gaines you left him out Craig has way too many things to worry about than think about. Little old me. Danny's food columns gave me a new appreciation of food. It's true. Also eating at places in LA.

Yeah, definitely. That's true. It made me realize food is art. Yeah. All right. We're wrapping up. Anything else? Louisville for the tournament?

Yes. Are you allowed to be in the tournament? Yes. That was so... Can we just not anymore? That's a totally fair question. Sometimes Louisville is not allowed to be in the tournament. That was...

Sometimes. Sometimes. Sometimes you're allowed. Sometimes you're not allowed. Okay. Bye, Bill. Bye. Danny, KFC, Haley.

Isaac? Yeah. Do you want to make the playoffs or not? Of course I do. Bye. Danny, KFC, Haley. Isaac? Yeah. Do you want to make the playoffs or not? Of course I do. Yeah. You do? Yeah. Yeah, I get your pick if you make the playoffs.

But convey the pick this year. We don't have to convey it next year. It turns into a second if you don't make the playoffs. It turns into two seconds two years later. You have to convey next year if we're in the lottery. So you on it and you're in on this weird Clippers team

yeah I think I think this is a good team and I think it's good it's like an old school thing to say but like get in the first round you know

have the young guys get a little run give Shea give Shea some burn in the playoffs it's bullshit because we have to send this whole playoff check

and they're going to play like two home games and they just keep our money it's like extortion they're just like yeah playoff tickets. The full price for all four rounds of games. And you're like, wait, what?

What's going on? You're going to get swept at round one. Why do we have to send a giant check? I'll still go. I'll be excited. Isaac, maybe I'll take you. Maybe. Maybe.

Not definitely. You have my number. Maybe. Thanks for coming on, guys. Thank you. Thanks. All right, number. Maybe. Thanks for coming on, guys. Absolutely. Thanks. All right, that's it. Thanks again to ZipCruiter.

Don't forget to go to zipcruiter.com slash BS. Thanks to Hulu. Don't forget to check out your free trial there on hulu.com. And thanks to the Rewatchables podcast, because we have one of my favorite movies coming up next week, and you have four days to watch it. Broadcast news. podcast because we have one of my favorite movies coming up next week and you have four days to watch it broadcast news um i think it's in the conversation for five or six best movies of the last 35 years it has aged wonderfully it somehow did not win an oscar but if you want to catch up with us when we do this when we'll be dropping it next week please do check it out and then you'll

you'll be able to enjoy it with us also we're trying something on this podcast next week, please do. Check it out. And then you'll be able to enjoy it with us. Also, we're trying something on this podcast next week. It's a gimmick. I'm really excited about it. I don't want to spoil it. I don't want anybody to steal it. It's too good of a gimmick. So you'll know.

We're going to be dropping some random podcasts that I taped two weeks ago. And you'll like it. Anyway, enjoy. Enjoy the weekend. And good luck to Tadeo FC this weekend. We only have our biggest game in four years. Let's go. I feel it's working On the wayside

I'm a person never lost And I don't have to be