The Bill Simmons Podcast - The Frustrating Celtics, One-Leg Luka, the Depleted Knicks, and Scapegoat Vogel With Joe House and Big Wos

Episode Date: May 10, 2024

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Joe House and Wosny Lambre to discuss the Mavericks' Game 2 win over the Thunder (2:09), the Celtics' discouraging loss to the Cavaliers (27:34), the firing of Frank Vogel (51:38), and more, before Bill introduces a new segment called "I Hate to Tell Ya..." (1:04:00). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Joe House and Wosny Lambre Producer: Kyle Crichton The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

coming up, I am unhappy with the Celtics and a lot more basketball next. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this. It's game day. All the gang's here. You're tailgating outside the stadium. It's a great time for beer.

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It's going to be a good one. God only knows what's going to happen. Coming up on this podcast, you know, sometimes you got to get sarcastic on the BS podcast. And the NBA playoffs has reached a point where we're just going to have to turn the sarcasm up. So I brought my favorite sarcastic duo,

Joe House and Big Waz, Wazney Lambre. And we're going to react to tonight's games, how I feel about the Celtics, which is not great, guys. I do not feel good about the Celtics and OKC Dallas, the other playoff series. And we created a game specifically to be sarcastic. So that's all coming up. Our friends from Pearl Jam, I don't know if you saw this, on youtube.com slash atbillsimmons. We went into their baseball cage

and we looked at all their baseball stuff. Eddie Vedder gave us a tour. It's incredible. It's a really fun, like, nine minutes on YouTube. So go check that out. And by the way, Pearl Jam. All right, we're taping this a little before 9.30 Pacific time. Joe House is here.

Big Waz is here. We're going to talk basketball that happened tonight. We're going to talk about round two. We're going to do, I came up with a sarcastic segment for us to do later. We just watched Dallas beat OKC. Joe House, I happen to be watching today, even though it wasn't on video on my TV, because I like listening to podcasts on my TV in the morning, the Ringer gambling show,

and you declared the OKC Dallas series over. You said it was a wrap. You said it was done. And Dallas came out and whipped OKC's ass and now the series is tied do you want to apologize to the city of Dallas? well no and to be fair the one caveat that I offered on the show was we did not know where Luca was going to go for his knee treatment I deliberately said on the show

if Luca finds Kobe's knee doctor if he finds the ointment, the unguent, the salve, the balm to apply to his knee and comes out interested in your take on this, I believe that the fact that he smashed his face on the floor within the first three minutes of the game has some kind of effect on like resetting his brain. Yeah, it did. It like, like the adrenaline, the normal adrenaline of the game got changed into face smash adrenaline. And all of a sudden, his touch looked awesome. Like the arc on his shots, his step backs, he didn't miss, it feels like, in a number of consecutive shots after he bashed his face on the floor. So I do feel like there was a little bit of that element to go along with.

He looked good. He moved well. And this is the key. The whole series comes down to Luka's knee then he bashed OKC's face so what do you think was Germany too far from OKC Miami even that's a little complicated

Mexico seems close for Luka that seems like a 40 minute flight for him Mexico's very close to the border and in texas and also uh they have way looser pharmaceutical restrictions right cheaper pharmaceuticals um i may or may not know this is an inappropriate conversation i love it i'm just saying i i'm not saying luca did this he could have but i personally know some meatheads that may or may have gone down there

for some HGH in the past. You know, just, just saying, you know, well, I'll tell you this because I actually don't think Luka got the Kobe treatment because one of the things that I wrote down was I love watching players when

they're playing with some sort of like injury slash handicap. These were always some of my favorite Larry Bird performances way back when, when he had the back brace on, but just in general, the flu game with Jordan, um, Kobe in 2000, 2009 or 2010 when his knee was bugging him and he kind of fought through it.

And all of a sudden, uh, went up a level of Germany might've helped with that one. But one of the things I liked about him in this game was he figured out exactly what pace he wanted to play at was, and was just like, I'm going to play at this pace. You can be as physical as you want.

I'm really strong. You're not going to knock me off the shots I want to get. He had a couple of threes that got him going in the first half, but this was just like the stat. It wasn't like an amazing stat Luka game. It was a pretty typical Luka game. But to me, I liked the general, I'm a little handicapped, but I know how to deal with it demeanor.

You agree with that? I love that point. It's almost as if he became razor sharp in how he wanted to attack. There was no dancing. There were no heat checks. There were no, oh, let me take seven dribbles, break a guy down. He was like, okay, I'm going to pick some very specific spots that I can hit, and I'm only doing that.

And then, of course, he makes a couple of shots, makes a couple of his patented step backs, particularly from three. And I think that actually opened up everything because OKC, because Lucas started so hot, they started changing their coverages on him and making him try to sort of give the ball up a little bit early. And I thought that was like a pressure release valve for Dallas' offense after that, man.

Like once they started sending two to the ball, he was getting it out quick, letting Gafford and Lively even spray the shooters. Sometimes the disastrous effect, but sometimes they found the right guys. Actually, not even sometimes, oftentimes. And other times they took it all the way to the cup. I thought him making shots early

was of the utmost importance because it dictated how OKC decided to cover him the rest of the game. I wasn't sure House was awake, but when you said pressure release valve, I saw him jostle for a second. I don't know why. PJ Washington had seven threes, House. Yeah. That was helpful. I got to shout out Kyrie again.

It's been the spring of praising Kyrie, which means it's going to rain frogs in July, Magnolia style. But I thought he was really good in the game today. Me too. He didn't score. He didn't score. He was just kind of controlling the game and just kind of picking his spots, jumping in and out.

And then the biggest play of the game at the end, when if OKC got a rebound, they could have cut it to a two possession game. He fights, gets the rebound, takes it to the corner, and step backs threes right in front of their bench and talks shit afterwards. It was great.

But I don't know what to do in this new 2024 where I like watching Kyrie play basketball and I would defend him to other people. You just got to roll with it. We got to roll with it for as long as it lasts. But that's kind of the theme for this Dallas team going back to the pressure release valve observation. Like, look, if you're going to get 12 for 20 from three point range for P.J. Washington and Tim Hardaway Jr. and Josh Green, those dudes went 12 for 20 from three. And Oklahoma City, the best shooting team in the NBA over these past, you know, 85 games, 89 games, whatever it is, 10 for 30 tonight from three.

So there you go, right? This is, it's a, it's a make or miss league. Dallas shot 49% from three as a team. You know, we got the PJ Washington game. BS, this is your guy post-trade deadline. You've been on PJ Washington. It's a show me, show me something. I've admitted defeat on the PJ Washington trade.

I like how he plays for them. There was stuff I didn't know when they made the trade. I'm going to take the loss. I'm not making an offense, but I didn't know the whole Dallas background with him. I wasn't aware of that whole backstory with him and Nico Harrison and how much. I knew that he had been in the playoffs.

Sometimes it's fun to bet on those guys that haven't gotten a taste. I think Gafford is a good example of that. Housewatch Gafford just playing in these meaningless games for years. But the P.J. Washington, I've always wanted to be here. I'll do whatever it takes.

I also, seeing him in person a couple of times, I thought he handled himself in kind of a bad-ass play. Why? Uh, way was he, he got into it a few times with the Mavs and, you know, there are those different guys when they get into it.

There's like the hold me back guys. There's the, there's the, I'm actually going to kill you guys. There's the, let's go fight in the, in the runway guys. And then there's the guys who they just kind of smile at the other guy with that kind of just a slightly sleazy, crazy look on their face. And I think those are my favorite guys. They, they're ready to fight, but they're not doing anything. They're just kind of waiting on you, but they're ready.

Whatever happens. P.J. Washington, man, his confidence is growing as the playoffs go. His first game, game one against the Clippers, he had a terrible first half, missed a bunch of wide-open looks. The Clippers were basically playing him like, all right, we're going to treat you like you're Tony Allen or Tony Strugless of New York Knicks fame. Like, we're going to treat you like as if you're a non-entity, right? And he had the bad first half.

But Luka, to his credit, kept finding him. And towards the end of the game, when the Clippers tried to load up on Luka, they were about two straight possessions where P.J. Washington gets a pass in the corner and he fires and he makes it. And that ultimately was the difference in that game. And I was like, man, if P.J. Washington is going to be a playoff type of, you know, rotation guy, he has to take that with the utmost confidence. But he also has to make it. And I think after that, man, he's taking these shots. As soon as he's got daylight, he is firing that thing.

And tonight was no different. Obviously, he got hot. He's not a 70, you know, he's not a 67% shooter from three. But just the fact that he takes it with that much confidence, isn't afraid to put it on the floor. He had a nice play where they set a back cut for him on the baseline. He catches it two feet in the paint and one on Shea Gilchrist. So he's attacking from all angles. It's just been a home run so far, man.

He's playing big minutes house. He was 35 minutes a game against Clippers, and tonight he played 40. 40. And I think after the top two, he's become their third most indispensable guy because it's kind of roulette with all the wings. Is Josh Green going to make a three tonight?

Is Hardaway showed up tonight? I have no idea if that's going to happen. Oh, it's XM. Oh, he's going to show up. And then the two centers seem to be interchangeable. But PJ seems like he's out there now, so they know that. I should say, I still think OKC is going to win the series. I thought Dallas played as well as they

could play tonight. And there were some OKC issues that I want to get into. Actually, let's get into this one, House. I don't love the fact that OKC has trouble getting big rebounds when they really matter. Did you notice?

They're kind of a gang rebounder team. One of the bets I did before the series house knows was, was I bet on chat for most rebounds in the series. It was plus two 25. He had the best OKC ads. I think he's got like the fifth or sixth most rebounds in these first two games and was bad tonight when, when Chet's bad, he's bad. Like you're like, Oh, he looks rough. But, uh, the rebounding just thinking about this team especially when they if they end up playing minnesota next round like i it still feels like they're a big rebound guy short would have you noticed that house well i like the point yes for sure and it's

the thing that was you know what we kind of circled coming in sort of playoff preview wise what's the vulnerability of this Oklahoma City Thunder team? Are they going to go up against somebody with size and not be able to get enough offensive rebounds? And Hubie Brown kept saying that Dallas' key for tonight was to make sure that OKC, it was a one shot offensive possession each time down the floor. And they really did manage that. And they won the

rebounding battle, Dallas did, by just a couple. It was like 44-42 something like that. But they had 12 offensive though for Dallas. And a couple big ones in the fourth. That's right. Yes, exactly. So that is the vulnerability. And to Dallas's credit,

part of what they had to figure out after game one is like this Maxi Klaber thing is a big deal. They're in their version now of five out, but that really starts with Luka coming up and making his first three or four shots, getting into a flow. And then the double comes and Luka's masterful

at finding guys at the corner I mean there was some beautiful plays. And more Washington for the minutes Washington gets like six more of those and then they basically need Hardaway to not look like he's washed up. 100% that's true obviously OKC's main

weakness glaring weakness was Heft in the front court. Just functional size. That's been their problem all season. Everybody knew that would be a problem going into the playoffs. I think the challenge for Dallas is, like, will Gafford and Lively actually make them pay for said weakness? I think in certain ways they have. You guys mentioned the offensive boards. I thought Gafford, man, was getting into Chet's chest.

Me too. And just going right after him at the basket, man. When he was catching it on the move or when he caught it close to the basket, he went up strong and tried to score. Another thing that I thought, you know, they did a pretty good job. I thought they missed a couple of layups in the paint when this happened. When some of the smaller guys like Isaiah Joe and Wiggins and some of OKC's smaller guys got caught up on the back switches and stuff like that, the big man went right at them, sort of cleared space and tried to just basically take advantage of the size advantage.

Lively missed a couple. He missed way too much bunnies for my liking. But still, I like the activity. I like that these guys are playing aggressive. They're going up strong. That's the game plan I feel like you have to have against OKC because it is such a glaring vulnerability

it is. Well, you know why I was a must win for Dallas today? They're playing on Saturday at 1230. Alright, it's 1230 Pacific time. That's a tough turnaround for Luka. Luka's hitting the point. What did he go down? Three, four times

during the game where it was like, oh, he's hurt. Then he would do the Luka thing and get up. It was a full-fledged Luka performance. I think he yelled at the refs at least 17 times. Took offense to a bunch of different things. It was just the whole package.

He's really something. He has a shot that I think he's had, but I feel like in the playoffs it's gone to another level when he's doing the foul line post-up game. And he turns around, then comes in on the guy, and it seems like he's almost going to get tied up for a jump ball. But then he bounces off the guy and then gets a shot because he's 260 pounds.

And it's kind of unstoppable. 230. Whatever. But that's kind of... House, why didn't you have that move in college? I felt like you could have had that. Not enough ass. I was too light.

I mean, it's literally different. You know, right? You had bony elbows though. Bony elbows. Bony elbow the people off you. I wasn't enough to create that space. Who's had that shot in the history of the league, though? That, like, kind of big body bounce?

Larry Bird, man. Yeah, I guess Larry has the forward part. Just a little bit of space created. Just create a little bit. Just the utmost little bit of creative space and then let it go. Luka's got that down pat. And, you know, another thing about this game, guys, that I'm struck by, man, I hope these NFL players been watching Jalen Brunson last night come back on a messed up foot.

Luka tonight on a bad knee, just gutting it out. You see the toughness, the perseverance, just facing adversity of these guys. Their body is limping around and they don't care. They deliver even in the playoffs, man. I really hope these guys are watching the playoffs right now, y'all. That was the dumbest argument in a while because Anthony Edwards could learn a playbook and be the best player in the NFL tomorrow. Just give him a playbook in seven plays. He's winning seven Super Bowls.

Anthony Edwards is the new... What was the guy? The Chuck Norris? The Chuck Norris fax? Would it be like Chuck Norris could beat 42 guys? I just throw Anthony... I think Anthony Edwards

could be the best baseball player. I think he'd be the best hockey player. Whatever sport. If he played... House, if he played golf for a week and a half, could he win the US Open? No, definitely not.

You've got to be raised a certain way to be good at golf. Can we get him at least good enough at golf to be in a celebrity tournament? Because that would be the TV highlight of my year. Except for this year, because Wayne Groh went on the John Mulaney show tonight on Netflix and did stand- up in a bathrobe. And I swear to God,

it happened. You can watch it. It's at the 41 minute 30 bark. He brought out Wayne grow from heat stand up with Bill Hader and David Letterman as sitting on the couch, watching it. And he did stand up house. This is a thing that happened.

What a world. What a world. I can't get off this show. So I can go watch that. For some reason, he didn't say i had to get it on though i didn't understand why he didn't didn't do that part uh house have you changed your opinion on this series um no and the reason is because um that felt like the very best version of Dallas. This is the manner in which Dallas, it's best shot to win these games. And you're talking about variance in two areas. You're talking about Luka health variance and you're talking about three point shooting variance. And I don't have a great feeling

that what we saw tonight out of Dallas is repeatable and sustainable. I feel like what we saw out of Oklahoma City in game one is more likely to occur over the course of this thing. But I will allow that this might go six games instead of just the five games I thought. Oh, thanks, House. I will permit that. Well, here's what I like to FOMO KC.

I liked all the shots they got. Sure. I thought they got good shots the whole game and they just missed some of them. SGA is getting wherever he wants. They don't really have anybody to stop him. And I think if they're just looking at it big picture, they're going to realize they lost this game defensively

with some of the stuff they're doing, plus some of the shooting. As you watch this back and forth, because we've seen two of these, Luka versus SGA, do you feel like SGA is equal to Luka? That the ceiling of what he can do is equal to Luka? Do you feel like they're absolute 50-50 contemporaries? How do you rank it just as you're watching it on a television set?

So I think they're absolutely peers. I don't think Luka is like some head and shoulders better player but you know ironically i think luca size is what gives him the leg up for me just that he could bring that height and the heft to bear and it's not just that he has it he understands how to leverage it man man. Like, this guy can barely get off of the ground. He had one of those classic Luka change of gears at the basket. He just barely, barely slowed down fast enough to get the guy off balance, finish, and he can only do that because he's 6'9", right? I think the size advantage I still give to Luka, but the way Shea can control, you know, a game and possessions at a time, man,

where there were plenty of times it felt like Dallas might blow this thing open and get it to 17, 16. And Shea and these guys, Shea just, you know, just made a bunch of beautiful plays in the mid range. He had one where Luka guarded him and he just did the quickest little subtle step back, splash the three in his eye. I think Shea is right there, but Luka is just so huge. I got to give him the slight advantage.

Well, Shea has the defense piece too. Like there was times when he was guarding. He's elite. He was guarding Luka on a couple possessions. And I was like, Jesus, like he's giving up. It was like watching a welterweight try to spar with a heavyweight, but he was giving up like 50, 60 pounds. What was your take house watching the two of them go ahead, Ted?

So it's hard to compare them because when they're in the same game, what you see is the heliocentric offense of Dallas and Luka touching the ball and guiding the offense on every single goddamn possession. And the same is not true of Oklahoma City. They're a proper five-out team, and all of SGA's shots are in the flow of that offense. And so I can, when they're not on the same floor at the same time,

easily sort of assess the impact that SGA is having. But when they're on the floor at the same time in the same game, I'm like, well, I see Luka. He got the ball. He made the right play here. He made the step back there. SGA is getting his. You look up, oh, he's got another quiet 30.

But it's not – the offense doesn't run through him, and so it's tough to compare him in my humble estimation. Who would you rather have if you're trying to win a title this year? SGA, without hesitation or reservation. That's my answer as well, Waz. What do you have? Nah, I'm still a Luka guy. I'm still Luka Hive here.

And, like, the guy is hobbled. Waz loves fat white guys. That's just his thing. He can't quit it. Hey, man. Yo, kid. Luka. You know, Philip Seymour Hoffman and Long Can't Polly.

I watched that rewatchables. That was classic, by the way. Thank you. I think, look, I actually thought Dallas might come in here and win the series before, you know, I realized the gravity of Luka's injury. And I think some of the stuff that I thought would work in their favor showed itself tonight. Some of the big man drives by OKC, it's like, yo, Chet, we get it. You have a handle and you have that part to your game.

Stop doing it. You guys are turning it over every single game. Same thing with Jalen Williams. Like, bro, we get it. You have a nice little skill package for a center. Don't do that. Give that to your guards. Let them handle the sort of driving kick aspect.

You guys said hard screens and pop. I just thought Dallas is a legitimate defense. And at certain points in the second half, OKC just looked a little bit combobulated, discombobulated. J-Dub, we saw he didn't look as comfortable on the drives, didn't look as comfortable, you know, challenging Gafford at the cup. He had to settle for a couple of, you know, harried mid-range jump shots. I thought Dallas acquitted themselves quite well on defense, man.

But OKC does have some things they can, you know, completely fix really quickly. One, stop treating Luka as if he's Luka. Make that dude prove to you he can do his Luka dribble, dribble, dribble one-on-one. Don't overhelp. Make him show that he can be an offensive force on one leg. Two, get Giddy the hell up out of my starting lineup, please. Stop it. You didn't start him for the third quarter. Y'all immediately go on a 13-4 run. Stop. Yo, as soon as this guy came back in in the third quarter, he throws the ball away on one possession, then bricks it.

And I'm just like, bruh, stop it with the giddy minutes. It's serious time. This reminds me of the box score. I did not. What was his box score like? 11 minutes minus 20. Sheesh. Lord have mercy.

Well, this is it though, right? Exactly. This is the maturation of the Oklahoma City Thunder right in front of our eyes. I just think it's going to happen at warp speed. I think because of their style of play, all their bodies, their youth is an advantage. I do think that they're going to be able to adjust. And it's literally make or miss for them. The difference is 10 for 30 from three versus Dallas having an extraordinary shooting night. And as soon as that regresses at all, it's in the favor

of Oklahoma City in my view. One thing I noticed when they had Kaysom Wallace out there with Dort and with Jalen Williams and they looked like the fucking Legion of Boom Seahawks for like three minutes and I was like oh they're going to file this away they're going to look at this

I think part of the key for them in this series is they got to this has become the recurring theme of the playoffs. Pressure these teams full court. Why are you letting Dallas walk up into the offense? I'm going to, I want to put miles on Luca and I want to put miles on Kyrie if I'm okay. See it.

Cause I have the horses just make that team dribble up. Anyway, really interesting series. I still think okay. See, he's going to win. Um, but Dallas showed,

showed a lot of stuff today. All right, we're gonna take a break. When we come back, we is going to win. But Dallas showed a lot of stuff today. All right, we're going to take a break. When we come back, we're going to talk about the pathetic Boston Celtics. This NBA playoffs, Fando is giving all customers two chances to bring home a big win with a no sweat, same game parlay every weekend of the playoffs. Just place an SGP on any playoff matchup

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Seat terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too.

You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal

and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. Metrolinks and Crosslinks are reminding everyone to be careful as Eglinton Crosstown LRT train testing is in progress. Please be alert as trains can pass at any time on the tracks. Remember to follow all traffic signals. Be careful along our tracks and only make left turns where it's safe to do so. Be alert, be aware, and stay safe. All right, so the Celtics lost tonight. They lost at game two. It was basically a carbon copy of two weeks ago when Miami beat them with one difference. Miami

had like a historically great three-point shooting performance. In this case, Cleveland just kicked their ass and probably had the four best guys in the game. Not talent-wise, like big picture. Just today, they had the four guys who played the best in the game. Not just Mitchell and Moe, but LaVert and Garland. And I think what was depressing to me, House, not just that

Cousin Sal bet Cavs minus nine and a half at 15-1 odds and hit that bet. I wish he had told us about that. 20-1. 20-1, whatever it was. I felt like the Celtics were probably going to do this. I was kind of prepared

mentally for the stinker. My dad told me, yeah, I'm not going tonight. We have to go to this charity thing. I was kind of prepared mentally for the stinker. Like my dad told me, yeah, I'm not going tonight. We have to go to this charity thing. I'm like, you're skipping a game two of a round two playoff games? Like, yeah. Like in general, there was, I don't want to say a malaise around this series in Boston,

but there's this just expectation now that the Sulks are going to walk to the finals. And anytime there's low expectations for the Sulks, oh, we the finals. And anytime there's, there's low expectations for the, oh, we got it. Oh, it's let's go. Let's do it. It seems like they can't resist just taking a shit house. This is what they do. They just take a nice dump on the court. I mean, once again, Papa Doc Simmons, your dad is the wise man. He knew that, you know, who else took the night off to go to a charity event? The Boston Celtics and the charity was the good people of Cleveland. You know, I'm happy to see it.

But look, there's something in this Celtics DNA situationally since the 2020 bubble season. These Celtics are 18 and 22 against the spread in games after they win and cover. They're four and five against the spread. If they win by 20 or more, they're one and four at home. So you said you watched the rear gambling show this morning. One of the things we hit on and when we laid out the case for this was, you know, we're, we're trying to be creative because talking about this Cleveland Celtics matchup is very difficult.

You could go on there and do, you know, correct sequence of wins in the series at 21 to one. We talked up the idea of Boston wins game one, which happened and the remaining games were Cleveland wins games two and then Boston sweeps the rest. So gentlemen sweep with Boston in game two. Well, while Boston is 14 and 17 in their last 31 home playoff games, usually home court

is kind of insane. Um, I think they've played in the last, uh the Magic and Cavs played in their game seven, the last three or four game sevens were played by the Boston Celtics. It's like they play in a lot of long series. And in order to do that, you end up losing a couple of home games in between. I'm actually, as probably the biggest Celtics skeptic on the call right now, I don't think this was the Celtics playing like absolutely horribly. I think game two against Miami was a joke, right?

Like they treated those guys like they were not professional NBA players, let them walk into practice threes, and, you know, they kind of sleptwalked through that game. I thought this was the Cavs playing an excellent game. It was tight at halftime. Evan Mobley was making layups. Evan Mobley was attempting three-pointers. Evan Mobley had a career high, playoff high of 19 points by the third quarter. These guys were playing over their heads. And I think I want to give a little bit of love to what Cleveland did tonight. I thought they just played their offense with a sense of purpose that I just hadn't seen them do all playoff long.

And we can get into some of the different things that they were doing. But, man, I thought the Cavs were pretty damn good, more so than this was a classic Celtics stinker. They really defended Tatum. Strews does a decent job on Tatum, I got to say. Very handsy. Tatum really wanted to get going in this game, and he just couldn't totally do it. And it seemed like part of Cleveland's strategy was like, hey, Jalen Brown, feel free.

And sometimes that gets dangerous. The guards on the Celtics were asleep on both ends. It was a very strange Drew Holiday game. And then that bench when you take out Porzingis, sometimes it's great when Luke Cornett, when you're up 20, it looks awesome. When you're down seven and Luke Cornett's in the game and you can't get a rebound, you're like,

oh my God, Luke Cornett's our seventh man. The thing that worries me big picture big big big big picture other than the lack of killer instinct the general softness of this team that I actually feared that you were going to bring a nice thing of Charmin toilet paper and wave it

during this pot I was prepared prepared for it mentally the Tatum piece of this. This was a big storyline this week after game one because his stats haven't been that good. What do you think dating back to Miami 2023, the last series they played last year, and then you go Miami series this year

and the first two Cleveland games. If I told you Jason Tatum took 88 threes in those 14 games, dating back to game one, Miami, 2023, 88 threes. How many do you think he made? Uh,

a quarter of them. I mean, my mind's eye has not seen him make a ton of them. Is he shooting better than 25% from three? So you're going to say 22? Yeah. What do you say, Wes? 88 threes.

I was going to be in the 30s, like 33. No, like 30, like 32, 33 around there. Yeah. How said it exactly? He's 22 for 88 in his last 14 games from threes. He was the 79th best three-point shooter this season at 37.9%. Last year, he was 113th at 35%. In the 2023 playoffs, he was 76th, 32.3%.

There's this feeling that Jason Tatum is like this lights-, awesome three point shooter who can hit all these crazy step backs. And there's no statistical evidence for it. And I'm tired of watching it. There's no eye evidence either. I mean, I, I feel like when I watch him compared to, and I voted for Tatum for first team on BA.

And I think I had, I can't remember if I had him fourth or fifth for MVP. When I watched some of these other scores, like SGA, like Luca, like Jokic, how he can get to the spots that he wants, unless he's going against the Minnesota pit bulls,

like Brunson, like Donovan Mitchell tonight, like Ant Edwards, this whole playoffs, Tatum just seems a level below as a score. Like he's, he's not dropping 40 point games left and right. It almost feels like, wow. It's like, it feels like two years ago against Brooklyn, against KD when he really had that breakout series. I felt better about him offensively that year than I do now. Now, he's a better playmaker.

I think he's a wiser basketball player. I think he's a better two-way player. I think he's added to his game in all these different ways, but just fundamentally as like, shit, we're down seven. We need to score some fucking baskets. I don't really trust him to get the job done, Waz. I don't

think he's that kind of guy. I think the percentages that you're speaking to is Tatum you know he's doing all the Kobe fanfic stuff before the game I think sometimes he gets it in his head that his role on his team is to be a run stopper is to you know when the other team gets six seven points in a row like let me get me get the ball, force the issue, get to the line. Let me get the ball, force the issue, get to a step back and shoot it. I think he believes himself. But without the right kind of flow, right?

It almost seems like he's playing a video game or something versus like some of these other guys I watch, they have a sense of how the game is moving and flowing. Not that he doesn't, because he's shown it in the past sometimes. But this year, I think he's really struggled with it. I just think the idea that everything that he does has to be off the dribble,

and it can't be, you know, back-cutting a guy at the right time, or, you know, sprinting down court, pinning a guy underneath the basket, getting the rock and trying to score that way. I think for him, he's got it in his head that everything he has to do needs to be off the dribble when it's quote-unquote takeover time. I just think that the talent is well-distributed enough around the roster

that he doesn't need to do all of this shot creation, dribble, dribble, dribble, and have that be the way that he attacks, right? To me, that's what I see as the limitation. He's just, like, we've seen it. He's just never shown himself to be at the SGA or, shoot, at the Anthony Edwards level so far in this playoff. Like, the Luka level, like, the prime Kawhi level, the, you know, I would say even prime Paul George.

People forget Paul George once finished third in MVP voting one year. You know, like he's just never shown that he's that. But I don't think he needs to be that on a team this stacked in order for the Celtics to ultimately reach their goals. I actually think they do need him to be that as we get to the final round. They play this Minnesota team house. I really worry. I mean, I talked about this on my last pod. I think Minnesota is the best defensive team I've seen in 20 years.

They're perfectly built to play the Celtics team. And we've already seen the matchup. And they have guys that throw at both Brown and Tatum. They have rim protection. And this Celtics team has a tendency of falling into bad shots anyway. And I'm trying not to be pessimistic about a team that won 64 games,

but part of me just feels like I don't see this level up that they can do. Even today, one of the things I loved about Tatum was they were really experimenting with him at the foul line and doing the 2011 Dirk kind of post-up stuff. Even that wasn't really working tonight. So,

um, I guess my point is this, I think he has it in him, but if we're ever going to see it, it's gotta be pretty soon because you're comparing him with some of these other guys we're watching like Brunson, who's just been out of his mind. Yeah.

Uh, just like, you know, 1984 Bernard as a six'1 point guard. And I don't know if Tatum has that in him house. What do you think? You know what's crazy is I totally agree. And this is what every single Celtics fan deep in their heart knows to be true.

The difference between the Celtics and Denver, for instance, and, you know, any other sort of at that upper echelon is just that thing, right? There's two minutes left. You need three baskets to win the basketball game. How are you going to get them? And Tatum figuring into that is a problem. It's a challenge. It's not that celtics fans feel confident about i think that emay odoka was going to open that up for him and i think we're now in a holding pattern with him because of what happened what emay did that that had him uh uh no longer associated with the Boston Celtics, I think it's had an impact on this last sort of level for Tatum to be the guy. I mean, you watch it and you live it and it drives you crazy

because you're the Celtics fan that you are. It drives me crazy watching it. You're not even a Celtic fan. At the end of games where he stands with the ball, waits for the clock to run out, and then does a one-legged fall away. It's horrendous. We call it the Drew Hanlon drills offense.

It's like, Jason, just do 10 dribbles between your legs and do a step back. Do 100 of those. Look, part of the problem with Tatum is he has done it in big situations. He has the Milwaukee game in 2022. He has the four threes against Philly in game six. Like the biggest possible stakes where it's like, we're going home unless you play well.

And he's come through. And that's why he gets so much benefit of the doubt. But the results just have not been here in the playoffs so far he has not had a really good playoff game yet he said every he said i think seven games so far six of the seven i don't even think he shot higher than 45 percent um he's getting the line better he's rebate his rebounding was really good in the miami series and he's better as an all-around player but But Waz, there's going to be a point where somebody on this team, when it gets to nut crunch time, who are we going to? Who's

getting the basket? And I would have said, I like the white Porzingis high screen the most. Porzingis was wearing a green Celtics jacket tonight. I don't know whether he looked like he was from South Shore, North Shore, Charlestown, Southie, Worcester, Grafton. He looked like a hundred different mass holes, that house that I ran into from 88 to 91. But we need him back because that's the superpower of this team. If he's not healthy, Waz, they have no chance of beating this Minnesota team the way they're playing defense. I just don't think they're going to be able to score. Yeah, I think they'll get to the finals regardless. The Knicks, despite their continued winning, are dropping players like flies.

That OG injury is serious. I'd be shocked if he's back for the playoffs. If you saw the way that guy limped off and couldn't even walk, remember Zion could actually walk himself off. OG was cooked. So now OG's done. Randall's done. Mitch is done. Bogdanovich is done.

The Knicks are not going to be able to seriously threaten. It's almost like their coach is playing everybody too many minutes. Look, I'll say this. Ankle injury is one thing. The muscle injury, most doctors and clinicians will say that that's an overuse injury. Yeah. Like playing three guys on your team 40 minutes a game or more.

Playing Josh Hart. Josh Hart's at 46.8. I looked it up. It's the highest number per game in the history of the playoffs. It's the ABA-NBA merger. Not one player has ever played eight playoff games and played more minutes a game than Josh Hart since 1976.

Who do you want to get those minutes instead of Josh Hart, though? I just don't think it's sustainable to do that. You're right. It's not. It's not sustainable. You can't do it. It's why they're going to lose. I think probably to this Pacers team over the course of this thing.

Wow. Not if they get two more officiating crews like game one and two. Oh, boy. It was like having the early 2000s NBA back. I wonder if Ray Allen and Glenn Robinson and Irvin Johnson and Sam Cassell were getting PTSD. Here we go. Glenn Robinson and Irvin Johnson. Sam Cassell. We're getting PTSD. Wow.

The NBA offices made the call, huh? Oh, my God. That was. I've never seen a travel call get reversed. I've been watching basketball my whole life. Has that ever happened? What about the barely? No, it wasn't a double dribble, though.

They got the call right. They reversed it, but they got it right. The barely perceptible offensive charge screen, whatever the fuck that was at the end of game one, that every team does over and over and over again, they're like, yeah, yeah, all right, offensive foul. It's fine. We all like the Knicks.

It's more fun than the Knicks in the playoffs. I support it. Me too. That could have been called on every single big three Celtics possession in which KG was involved in the screen. How about every single Anthony Davis screen this season? Where's Dick Pavetta? Is Dick Pavetta

alive? Can he do game five if it's 2-2? Can they just put him in a wheelchair and wheel him back and forth? I don't even know if he's alive or not. These crews that they've had have been fine. Where's Jake O'Donnell? Can he do one of these games? I loved it. This is the league we all fell

in love with once upon a time. It's a little WWE theater. You got to do it. There's no chance. Patriots fans are loving this. There's no chance that Mobley's having

like a semi-awakening, maybe, possible. And there's no chance that maybe Mitchell is like, eh, maybe I'm just going to go on a run here. And there's no chance that maybe Mitchell is like, eh, maybe I'm just going to go on a run here. And I don't know. I'm a little more scared of this Cavs series now than I think most Celtics fans.

Because all the Celtics fans I know are just mad at the Celtics. But I'm more in the sense of, Strews scares me. He's killed the Celts a bunch of times. Mobley tonight looked like the most active, skilled big man in the game. And Mitchell was the best guy on the court. So you have that as a recipe of just multiple guys I'm afraid of, and they have the best

guy in the game. It's not not worrisome-wise. It's definitely worrisome in the sense that watching the Cavs play tonight, particularly in that third quarter where they kind of blew this thing open, I was like, wow, this is like the actual vision of the Cavs that people had when they got excited about the Mitchell trade. One, Darius Garland not hesitating to pull up threes on the pick and roll. I mean, look at that defense too. They were hunting him and he was fighting it off.

I liked it. Showed a lot of fight. But the pull-up three game, like, if a guy on the ball, man, on pick and roll is willing to take a bunch of those and can make them with some accuracy, that kills what the defense wants to do coverage-wise, man. And to have two of those guys, Mitchell was doing it, too. And then now, you know, this plays

where the defense is sort of selling out on the Mitchell and Mobley pick and rolling. And when he swings it to Garland, he could just quickly attack a scrambling defense. Like, oh, okay, this looks like a real NBA offense in ways that, you know, they're dropping 83 points. Like it's the freaking Knicks in 1999 in the whole game in the first round. I'm like, man, this offense is rudimentary and trash. But what they showed today, if they could keep this energy going,

yeah, I think it'll be a little bit tougher. But again, Mobley, Garland, Mitchell, they have to play at their very best, which is basically at all-star levels, all of them, in order to compete with what the Celtics got going on. And I doubt that that'll happen, guys.

House, they scored two, they had two 100-point games against Orlando. They peaked at 106. And tonight against the Celtics, they scored 118. And it's frustrating to me because, and I don't know, I just don me because, and I don't know, I just don't understand and I don't know if it's a coaching thing or if there's some sort of mental block with the Celtics,

but defense is the key to the Celtics. It's all about the defense. And then every time they have a bounce-back game, which they'll probably bounce back in game three and probably be like, we want to establish our defensive intensity coming out of the gate. We let up in game two and we we won't establish our defensive intensity coming out of the gate. We let up in game two and we just

realized that, you know, we got it once the defense gets our offense going and it's like, yeah, I've heard these fucking quotes but it's like Groundhog Day. We've heard the same speech 20 times. Defense got to get the offense going. Yeah, we know. The defense has to get the offense going. Yeah.

So why didn't you know that heading into game two? Why was it after the game? This is... Listen, there's some coaches that shouldn't have been fired this year, but if Missoula can't get to the finals with the number of breaks that this team got,

with Jimmy Butler not playing in round one, with Jared Allen getting hurt in round two. And we haven't seen him yet. And he was a borderline all-star. And then game three, or round three, it's either the depleted Knicks that are just dropping. They're losing a guy every game. Or the freaking Pacers.

And they can't make the finals. This is one of the biggest chokes in Boston history. It is. Do you still have any of your Mobley stock? Do you still hold on? I have all of it. Zach Lowe and I text about it at least once a month. Yeah. We have the most.

We're the biggest shareholders. I was wondering as I was watching that game and then you won this very show today, wondered aloud for our consumption and enjoyment. What if somebody went to Mobley after game one and this very show today wondered aloud for our consumption and enjoyment. If like, what if somebody went to Mobley, but after game one,

I'm like, mother effer, are you going to let Al Horford and Luke Cornett and Sam Houser shut you down? Is that, is that like they went up and, and actually, you know,

got, got into this, this dude. And he's like, you know what? God damn it, I'm Evan F. Immobile. I've got ambitions and aspirations. This is my stage.

This is my time. I mean, they did out-physical the Celtics, and it made me think of how vulnerable the Celtics are. Without Porzingis, no question. That's right. 44 to 31. 44 to 31 rebounds. And 60 to 44 points in the paint.

That's putting some ass into it. Well, the thing people forget about Mobley, he's only 15 years old. Nobody talks about that. No, he's actually 22. But he's still a kid. I still have all my stock. Look, Celtics fans, I don't think you need to panic after this game 2 loss. It's a long series.

It's a team that the Celtics clearly understand is an inferior opponent. They did the same thing the last round. They came back and smoked the heat the rest of the way. They took it really seriously. That's what the playoffs is all about. Let's just pull out enough to win. The old Milton Berle. They've only gotten their

asses kicked four times this year, just for the record, and I'll give you the games. The Clippers came in, beat the shit out of them during the apex of the Clippers era. That's the one when they show the highlight tape for people trying to convince them to get season tickets. It's like, remember in January we killed the Celtics.

The Bucs beat their asses by 33. And that was a five games and seven nights. They had no legs. It happens. The Magic kicked their asses, I think in December by 17. And then the Cavs tonight. And each time the Celtics suck from the three-point line. 10 for 40, 9 for 35, 7 for 29, 8 for 35. And the problem

for them, and this can be a problem as we get to the later rounds, is they're not making threes and they fall behind. It just turns into this ISO ball fucking disaster. And you can see it. And it's just like,

you go and I'll stand and I'll watch you. No, no, I'll take it. You stand and i'll watch you no no i'll take it you stand and now you watch me and i just can't believe this team won 64 games i've never been more frustrated by a good team my entire fucking life now i wish we didn't have a podcast today god damn it really like knicks are dropping every hour another nick gets hurt. They can't, they just can't make it three more weeks. We're going to take a break and we're going to come back and play a game called I Hate to Tell You. After decades of shaky hands caused by debilitating tremors, Sunnybrook was the only hospital in Canada who could provide Andy with something

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I went and I went through all the great players and tried to answer the question, who's had the most coaches since the 2014 playoffs? So exactly 10 years from right now. So it would count if your coach was in the 2010 playoffs. Our leader is Kevin Durant at eight. And that's not counting the ninth coach that they're about to hire. Coming in second, Kyrie Irving, also eight. Now he was traded a couple times, but eight coaches for him. A surprise third place guy

was Devin Booker with seven and we're about to have number eight. That's not... Devin Booker is managerial incompetence. They just kept screwing that thing. Okay. I'm listen. I'm,

I'm just the stats guy. I don't think Devin book is a coach killer, but cook. Well, he's about to be eight. He's about to be on number eight, James Harden and Russell Westbrook, both tied for seven at seven at seven tied for fourth place.

And then LeBron is at six plus the new coach, so he'll be at seven. Giannis and Butler both five. Dame, AD, Kawhi, four. Embiid, three. Curry, two. Tatum, two. Jokic, one. He said one coach.

Biggest surprise for you on that list was Booker. Yeah, Booker, for sure. Just because, you know, it's not like he's been this powerful entity in the NBA for his whole career. Right. Like he came in is like the 14th or 13th pick or whatever it was and then outperformed expectation. And for a while, guys like Bill Simmons were saying he was a good stats, bad team guy. He was. I don't apologize. He was.

He was. But then he became an obvious all-star, all-NBA kind of guy. Great. I don't begrudge, but I'm surprised. And we called him a good stats, good team guy. Trae Young. What's Trae Young now? we called him a good stats, good team guy. Trae Young. What's Trae Young now? Because he was a good stats, bad team guy.

Then made the playoffs, so he was a good stats, good team guy. Now he's a good stats, mediocre team guy. I think he needs some humility in a new scenery guy, for sure. Brooklyn Nets? Yeah. He changed agents this week. CAA. There was only room at clutch for one

between him and Murray. House, what was your biggest surprise in that list? It was definitely Devin Booker. I didn't recall. It's a combination for Devin Booker of how long he's been on the league, and I probably have forgotten how long he's been in the league. And I probably have forgotten how long he's been in the league, but also like that institutional, that kind of a rotate rotating

coach chair in Phoenix. Cause he's only been with one team, right? Devin Booker, only one team. That's a lot of coaches for a guy who's only been in the league for, you know, remember he had that Igor guy that one time. Yeah. guy was in there? They tried them all. Well, KD's going to be on coach number nine. As you know, I'm accused in some circles of being a KD supporter, even a KD stan.

This Vogel thing's a tough one to defend. It just is. Because Vogel's a good coach. And I just don't know how you go from winning a title to being the problem in two different cities in the span of four years. Skip Bayless had an incredible tweet

that someone sent me where he talked about Frank Vogel won a title in the bubble and then since then he's been fired twice. And if that's not all the proof you need that the bubble was a fake title, that's it. I was like, I really admire the craftsmanship for that crazy dedication is really just in the lab pumping that one out.

But, uh, but yeah, my guy KD house, I don't know, man, it's a lot of coaches. The question is with that situation, uh, but yeah, my guy KD house, I don't know, man, it's a lot of coaches. The question is with that situation,

um, nobody really had Frank Vogel as, as landing in, in Phoenix, right? There was the undercurrent with the new owner. Was it, there was another guy,

there was an in-house guy, right? Kevin Young. And then all of a sudden doc was involved and poor doc who could have had his choice of like Phoenix or the Lakers, I assume one of these, and then went to Milwaukee and everybody got hurt. Now he's stuck in Milwaukee. But it sounds like Phoenix did the thing where they fired Vogel

and then three minutes later, it's like, word is they're very interested in Coach Bud. And so now you know he's getting the job he's putting the stays from arizona uh so why is coach bud is now a good coach again i don't think he was ever a bad coach i think the situation ran him out of town bucks reddit was just annihilating him the situation in milwaukee kind of ran its course and the, the, the buds value was realized when the bucks were playing the most undisciplined offense in the NBA, despite having some success.

Cause you could do that against some of the mediocre NBA defenses when you have that much talent, but they were so undisciplined in like their space and principles and like stuff like who would even bring the ball up and who guys breaking off a place. Like they were just undisciplined in their spacing principles and stuff like who would even bring the ball up and who guys breaking off a place. They were just undisciplined. It was obvious the stuff that they hated Bud for, which was being a stickler, turns out it actually worked. And the Suns had the worst fourth quarter offense in the NBA this year, which is insane when you consider their offensive talent. So if they can get a task manager to have them just like being in the right spots and running good stuff, I think that's like found money.

It's like an easy way to just get way better than what they did last year. So I'm not completely against the hiring. I'm just skeptical that a culture, a team unity, a togetherness can be crafted from bringing Bud in with this particular group. Just look at the Timberwolves and how they've all galvanized around Ant and his personality. Sorry, love KD, one of the biggest bags, best bags, most skilled bags in the history of offense. He's never proven himself to be that kind of person.

I don't know that Devin Booker has it in him to be that either. Who's going to be the person that makes the Suns into a team, a unit, a connected group? I don't know that you could bring Bud in. Bradley Beal? I think Bud's a really good coach. I don't think he's one of the top three coaches, but he's a

really good coach. I don't know if it's going to matter when you have a team that's built around three guys, one of whom is 36, one of whom is Bradley Beal. The other thing is, and we talked about this a couple pods ago, House, but Minnesota, OKC, Denver, even the Celtics, like there's just young, deep, athletic, awesome teams.

And that just putting together that goofy big three model or one of the big three is Bradley Beal, who you can't trade because he has no fucking trade clause that you didn't even ask him to drop when you didn't trade. And then Durant, who was in the 2007 draft. You don't think the Bartlsteins should have been negotiating against each other? In the execution of that trade? It didn't work out. Wait that for Bradley Beal.

But I just don't... There's no way to improve that team, so congrats. Your offense is going to look a little better, but you're still not beating anybody. House, do you buy anything into Minnesota was so awesome maybe Phoenix feels better about themselves now? No.

Maybe it's like, oh, it wasn't that bad. It's nonsense talk. No, it was that bad. We watched it. It was bad. I'm bummed because I wanted Coach Bud to come here to Washington. Oh.

And, you know... Maybe you come here to Washington. Oh. And, you know. Maybe get JJ Redick. Well, doesn't seem like a good match. I don't know. I want somebody that can come do some nurturing. I don't want a guy that, you know, no offense to JJ, obviously, but this is not a learn on the fly kind of job. We need an adult.

It's time for an adult associated with the Washington basketball team. We finally have it on the football side. I'd like one trustworthy adult. We have it now in the decision makers, you know, the GM office here in Washington. But we need a good coach. I did a YouTube short a week ago about how I thought LeBron should become the player coach of the Lakers because he's clearly just never going to be happy with a coach. And I also don't know why anyone would want to be the coach of that team at this point

when it's the ultimate no-win job. And then there was some player coach momentum this week in other circles. And I think it's illegal with team rules, but I was thinking like, could they make Maverick Carter the coach? So basically LeBron's the player coach. Maverick's pretending to be the head coach, but really LeBron's running it.

And he gets to hang out with his buddy, and then his buddy would have job security because LeBron takes care of his boys. The one problem with the LeBron takes care of his boys. The one problem with LeBron as player-coach is that there leaves no room for somebody to throw the blame or throw under the bus. Well, he could blame himself as the coach. It could be like the end of Primal Fear

when Ed Norton's blaming the other version of Ed Norton. That's my only issue with that one is that lebron would have like it just it'd be too easy to point to lebron and his ambition and all of that power hungry and all of that stuff if it didn't work out so and and we know lebron's not in the business of taking the blame or taking the fall for things that don't go right so So that's why I personally can't see it. Okay. As you don't see it either. I wish they would change the rules.

I mean, Bill Russell won two titles as a player coach. It's the thing that succeeded. When I was growing up, Dave Cowens was a player coach for us for like two, three months. It was cool. He would come out of the game, towel off. He'd have a clipboard. It was neat. One of those things.

Maybe Corey Kispert could be the Wizards head coach. I don't get this trolling. Kyle Kuzma? I don't get this. I say you're anti-player coach? I don't understand. I mean, this is a whole bit with LeBron. LeBron didn't drive Darvin Hamm out.

They have a, you properly. No, Palenka. That's correct. That's right. Yeah. Now that there's, I, Palenka. That's correct. That's right. Yeah. Now that there's, I think Palenka is the one. Because you're the GM, you want to keep your job. If things aren't going well, you spend the most time with the owner.

You spend more time with the owner than anybody else. Man, what the fuck was that coaching thing today? These adjustments in the fourth quarter. You're just like planting the seeds with Jeannie People yelled at me when I said Darvin Ham did a pretty decent job On the Lakers And basically they said his cardinal sin

Was that he went away from the Western Conference Championship lineup That was the cardinal sin He didn't watch Rui in the playoffs He sucked Did anyone watch the games? He was terrible. Breaking news.

He sucks. He was bad. We're like, oh, we got to get back to the Western Finals thing. It's like, you mean when he got hot for like three games? Yeah. That's what people said was Darvin Ham's unforgivable sin. He took Austin as a sixth man because Austin wasn't defending to start the year,

and he was trying to establish a defensive identity. And, you know, D-Lo and like, you know, like, come on, man. It's not like these guys were world beaters. But yeah, allegedly this is like, you know, D-Lo coming off the bench, you just can't do it. Can't accept it. Ridiculous. All right. Let's play the game that I mentioned. It's called I hate to tell you. We're going to go around the around the circle. This will be the last thing we do.

Was you start us off. It's got to be something NBA related with a setup. I got you. And then you saying, I hate to tell you, but we're basically breaking bad news to different people in NBA circles. So a couple of days ago, a bunch of notable public people, people from the music scene, actors and actresses, a couple of athletes showed up to this thing called the Met Gala. And people show up basically to give their public persona and image a different level of oomph and pizzazz. But Ben Simmons, I got to tell you, showing up to the Met Gala in that monkey suit, man, that did nothing but drag your reputation down into the mud even further.

It's just like, look, you're not doing anything technically wrong by going to the Met Gala and looking like a fool. But like when you don't play and it's for all these lame excuses and when you do play, you're playing horrible and you're extremely overpaid. And you make time and effort to show up to the damn Met Gala looking like an idiot. Like this does not help your image, man. Like this does not help your public standing This does not help your public standing. This makes you look worse. I got to tell you, Ben Simmons.

I have a zag on Ben Simmons. No relation to my son. He's made $204 million after next year. I think Ben Simmons was a big winner. He played a couple of good years. He never got better at any NBA skill. He forced a trade and doesn't have to play anymore.

He basically doesn't have to work. He's going to retire with like a hundred plus million in the bank and he gets to go to the Met Gala and just doesn't seem embarrassed by any of it. I really respect his lack of embarrassment, House. This is precisely the observation I want to make. I'm worried that this is one of the last Ben Simmons sightings that we're going to have because he doesn't play basketball and he's only noteworthy for being a basketball player. So he has to find something to keep him in the public eye for us to enjoy the full simmons experience but i don't think he has that skill there's no pivot and i i'm afraid uh he's just gonna fade away and you know the move

really for him is to go back to austral Australia and try to do something for that national team. But it doesn't seem like it's in the cards because he doesn't play basketball. Wow, is that once upon a time when it seemed like Ben Simmons was going to be a second team All-NBA guy that year? Was that 2019, 2020? And I remember thinking like, this might suck for my son. He has the same name as Ben Simmons. Ben Simmons is going to be a really famous basketball player. No longer have those concerns. My first, I got to tell you, uh, Jimmy Butler.

So Pat Riley did his annual 40 minute press conference, which by the way, I think should be a pay-per-view. I think it should be like 29 95. Like I would definitely pay to watch it. I'm always on the edge of my seat at the end of the year when Pat Riley gives, I'll never forget the 10 years ago when he did the winning is hard when he was doing the LeBron pep talk to try to convince LeBron to stay. And he was like sub tweet, press conferencing him for 40 minutes. Then LeBron left like three days later. It didn't work. I love his speeches. He killed Jimmy Butler in this thing. And he, he did it perfectly. He talked about how Jimmy he's great. He's, you know, he had a really good

season, but you shouldn't be talking shit from the bench and, uh, he's got to play more. And we're not going to talk about an extension with him unless it's tied to him playing more basketball. And really I always call it hit them with the newspaper. Like when, when you're mad at your dog and just hit the dog with the newspaper, Just hit him with the newspaper. So then Jimmy, a couple of days later, was like, yeah, I didn't take it personally. I want to retire in Miami. This is the last NBA team I'm going to play for. The only other team I'd play for

is some team in Brazil I'd never heard of. Jimmy, I hate to tell you, they will absolutely trade your ass at some point over the next six months. If you don't start playing basketball games and showing up every day, they will trade your ass. You have two years left, 48 million, 52 million, and they will trade you. Pat Riley would trade anyone on his team and his family, that guy will do it. He's 79 years old.

You think he's going to be like, oh, I'll wait until I'm 81 to decide if this Jimmy Butler thing works. He will fucking trade you. I wouldn't be surprised if you trade him this summer. Jimmy, don't get too comfortable. That's mine. Any thoughts before we move to Housewives on Jimmy Butler? I think it wouldn't

be shocking if Jimmy Butler's played his last game in Miami. Honestly, that wouldn't surprise me. I think that as well. One bit, one bit. I know Pat Riley was like,

no, we're not trading them just because we don't, we don't have to give them an extension. We're not going to be forced into a trade, blah, blah, blah, blah.

But I think they might do it voluntarily. Not that Jimmy Butler was like demanding a trade and forcing his way out of town. I think it's, I think it's a strong possibility, especially when you're speaking like that in public. I don't care that Riley's old and he's the godfather yada, yada, yada. You don't come after your guys like that

in public, man. To me, that's a sign of a strained relationship. Yeah, and also it's a sign of when somebody's this old. Like my dad or house's dad, where you're just like, just never know what they're going to say. They might just let it fly. They have some comments and some thoughts. I think the Miami Jimmy Butler situation to me is very similar to just an incredible long blackjack run that they tried to change dealers on you.

It didn't work. Then they brought their cooler dealer in. That still didn't fucking work. The pit boss walked over. He stared the table down, tried to change the camera. He mentioned how many

chips you're up. Still didn't work. And you have this big pile of chips. And now it's 3.30 in the morning and you're drunk. And the dealer has to talk to you for an hour

and take your chips and go home. That might be what this is with Jimmy Butler. Maybe. It's going to be mid-30s now. House, you have one Jimmy Butler question. I do. I want to know what you guys think is the best place for him to land.

Because I think I'm definitely on the same page as you guys in terms of him changing scenery. I know Philly has all that cap space. I'm definitely on the same page as you guys in terms of him, uh, change of scenery. Um, I know Philly has all that, that cap space. Is there, is there a deal there? I don't know what Philly has to give back and it would have to be, I keep eyeing the Paul George piece of all of this,

wondering if that could be a Miami basically doing that weird Miami voodoo. They do where they started out with Jimmy Butler and somehow end up with Paul George on a new contract. And you're like, wait, how'd they do that? Whether it's like a double trade where they trade Butler to Paul George and he moves into the Butler spot, or they trade Butler to Philly to create this big trade exception and then they trade with like Something like that I was thinking.

The only other one is if there's a LeBron possibility if he decides he doesn't want to stay in the Lakers. And then the only other one I was thinking was Golden State just for the fucking sport of it. Wait, hit pause on the Lakers. What the Lakers give back with those picks, is that attractive enough to Miami? Or it's just LeBron for Butler.

I can't see LeBron playing for Pat Riley again. Me neither. The animosity on the Pat Riley side. Yeah. Because obviously LeBron made up with Dan Gilbert. He just doesn't care if he really wants to change something up. He'll do that. But Pat Riley is just like, he was so freaking wounded by the fact that, you know, he went to Vegas and it was a fake pitch and blah, blah, blah.

And they wasted his time and, you know, smiling faces, hitting agendas, all of the crap that he said about Braun. I find it hard to believe. But, you know, I think Jimmy works on any team with actual postseason aspirations, right? Like, I've been hearing Kevin Durant to OKC for the homecoming. I mean, why can't Jimmy be over there?

I think Jimmy would be a great OKC addition, right? I just want to make sure Sarut is still awake. Orlando? Franz? Franz? And something else? Maybe Miami could fix France.

House, what's your next, I got to tell you. Well, here's the thing. I am. Oh, I hate to tell you. I can't even remember the name of my own good man. I got to tell you. I hate to tell you. I am an avid consumer of the of the bs podcast i very much enjoyed the recent

segment that you and mr rossillo had where you took three teams and we're trying to map out what does the future look like for these teams you did the suns you did the heat and you did the lakers and i wondered to myself well there's there's one team that you guys left out and i i i wasn't sure sure why but uh i'm looking at milwaukee and i'm looking at my guy yannis and i say yannis my freak my freak i have to tell you this version of dame liver dame lillard that you just got at age 33 i hate to tell you this it ain't getting any better at his age 34 year and that dude's making 50 million bucks next year.

I hate to tell you, freak. So what should they do? You tell me. What should they do? I don't know. They're fucked. Milwaukee's fucked. Dame thing's tough because Waz, what do you think is compared to what his trade value was a year ago? Milwaukee is fucked. Dame thing's tough because... Waz, what do you think is compared to what his trade value was a year ago?

Is it 80%? 75%? 60%? The thing is, last year he was coming off the best season of his career. Right? Yeah, because he played 50 games and none of them meant anything. Sure. Okay, sure.

That's one way of putting it. Or like, you know, he moved to Milwaukee. He's going through a lot of things in his personal life, which he's put out in the public with like this divorce and all of this stuff. Like he's had a pretty tough goal of it, like trying to adjust and all of that. I think if he can be between what he was his last year in Portland and what he did this year in Milwaukee. I think that's still pretty damn good, right? I just think he just had, like, just a really tough, bad season,

and I believe he's capable of playing better. Now, do I think he's able to get to the highest of highs of what Dame Lillard has provided in his career? No, but I think he could be much better with, you know, when, if they have an actual training camp, they have an actual motive attack for what the kind of team that they,

they want to be. I think Dame can be the Dame part of this can be better. I think the supporting situation, like actually be going into the off season with a plan to get supporting players that can buttress the rest of it is to me the most important. They don't have a lot of moves on that front though. I would be so scared watching. Like if we get Minnesota OKC as a Western Finals,

watching the athleticism in that series. And if I'm Giannis, shout out to Thanasis, by the way. It sounds like he got hurt. Like that guy. Torn Achilles. That was the story I saw today. But if you're Giannis and you're watching OKC Minnesota and watching those guys flying around and then thinking about your old ass team with Jay Crowder. That's pretty rough. Do you have one more I hate to tell you, Wes?

Yeah. So in game two at the Garden, Reggie Miller was in the building and the Knicks fans started screaming, fuck you, Reggie, towards the end of the game when the game was at hand. I loved it. He doesn't work for the Pacers. He was just in the building.

And I got to tell you, I was into it. We need more teams doing this. If there is a former guy that used to kill you on, you know, he might be in the front office of the team you're playing against. Or he might be on the broadcast. Or he might be, you know, he might be an agent now or a player rep or whatever. If that dude is in the building, the fans should be chanting that guy's name and cursing him out. The Reggie

grudge, 30 years on, it warmed my heart, man. It was perfection. Love it. You know what's funny? I had a bunch of friends at that game and all them apparently the fans were just chanting at different points fuck some like fuck trey young was said a bunch

of times apparently that was a chant when people were leaving the game fuck trey hugg started trey wasn't even involved in this game yeah so i think that i think the knicks are just so happy to have you know to be in the mix I had my friend Brian Koppelman I actually talked to today because he called me and

he said it was the happiest Knicks night of his entire life that's amazing that all the guys there the Willis moment from Brunson

where they think oh shit this just evaporated in thin air the guy's gone then he comes back. OG gets hurt. They still somehow win.

They're up 2-0. And they just love this team. I mean, this team, this is such a memorable Knicks team. And it ties into what we talked about before with the Celtics. Here's this Knicks team flying around. Josh Hart playing 48 minutes. They're fighting for every fucking... They're coming back from 10.

They're playing like their life depends on it. Then you watch the Celtics team that couldn't be bothered to defend a high screen. Lots of cats in there. She's trying to get in on the action. She heard this is one of the most popular podcasts in the world

and she wanted to get some FaceTime, Bill. I'm with you though. Oz. I love, I love when the playoffs get to the point where just players are in. Fuck you. Chance. Um,

I have a quick one. So Yoko wins the MVP. And they interview him on the TNT show, which is always a fun moment. And Shaq decides to, to start his question with, Jokic, I just got to tell you that I didn't, I voted for SGA to win MVP. I just wanted you to hear that from me.

And it was just like, not even really a question. Jokic is on like a satellite. And TNT, I hate to tell you, a question. Jokic is on like a satellite. TNT, I hate to tell you, if Shaq comes up with that idea in the pre-show meeting, it's okay to talk him out of it and veer

him in a different direction. Maybe near the end of the interview he could mention, but I don't think people realize how producers can fuck up TV shows like this because then it looks like Shaq's an asshole. It's like, man, why did Shaq do that? What a drink. This is the whole point. This is the talent always goes at these big networks and the producers always stay. And the producers are the ones who could talk the talent out of doing something like that. And they never do. And then

the talent looks like schmucks and then eventually they get replaced. But I just, I didn't like that at all. That should be a happy moment. The guy won the MVP. House, what do you got? Well, that's a bummer because I feel like we're ending on a sad note. I am channeling my inner John Oren from the puck, our boy Johnny O.

And I have a little message for David Zasloff. Hey, David, you know, you had the tiniest, the tiniest pimp hand ever with an exclusive negotiating period to try and do a deal with the NBA and you fucked this up so royally. I hate to tell you, take a look at the stock price right now, Dave.

Big Zas, take a look at the stock price right now, Dave Big Zazz. Take a look at the stock price because when you wake up 30 days from now and don't have the NBA as part of any of those WD package, that stock price is going to be halved. And we're in the single digit dollars, big

brother. Hate to tell you, you're taking one right up the poop chute and it's a giant L, my brother. Hate to tell you.'re taking one right up the poop shoot and it's a giant l my brother hate to tell you now here's the sad thing that means almost certainly that inside the nba this is it this is no no way it's fine so who's gonna do it it's fine like somebody nbc they will take that show and it's gonna go to another network and it will be the same. And if for some reason Zaslav and the rest of Warner,

they block it, they will be considered like the biggest grinches about like that, that, that might lead to our first civil war in the, in the last 150 years. If, if they inside the NBA crew is just held hostage on a channel that doesn't have basketball anymore,

we might actually see actual fighting between states. I'm concerned, Wes. Maybe they'll do Inside NASCAR or something. Just put them on hockey? Just put them on different things? That'll be the pivot. They'll go to the other sports that they have.

I find it hard to believe that you know if nbc or somebody gets the rights that they'll break that thing up completely like it's obviously the best studio show the sport has ever known so you know get that thing together but zazloff i think it'll be okay man they got these things called golden parachutes allegedly from what i hear I think you'll be completely fine. Generations of Zazzlaws will be spending that Warner money. I promise you. Well, House, do you think the NBA is worth twice as much

as they paid for the last deal to get less games and to get the conference finals every other year instead of the year? So basically, you're getting a worse deal that you had before for double the price, you would just do it regardless. It's worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. That's the answer.

And NBC stepped right the fuck up and said, hey, guess what? We're willing to pay for the B package. Yeah. We don't care what, you know, it's every other this and we don't get you know we want to be in the business of the nba we want to be a partner of the nba and so you know that that dude zaz had his opportunity they had their exclusive negotiating period and it didn't go anywhere

he clearly misjudgedged what exactly was happening in the media space. Not great from the head of a newly formed you know, megalopolis media entity with all of these properties. Misread one of the most crucial brand opportunities. Doesn't seem like good

leadership, but take that $50 million homie. I'm sure it will help you sleep well at night inside your Freddy soft sheets. I'm excited if NBC Universal and I think they already got it. That's why when we did the Puck podcast last week.

I think a seven-man pregame show is in play. Just think about what they've done with NFL. I don't know who the NBA version of Jack Collinsworth is who's related to somebody that might be able to get in there but uh I'm excited for the nepotism maybe this is a landing spot for Brian E. James we'll see I mean as long as they inventize the get eventize the games man make it feel like a big deal. Do a good job producing the product. I don't know

that the NBA's partners since NBC lost the deal, they've always done a great job of making these games feel big and important and that kind of thing. And so as long as they do a better job at that than has been previously shown, you know, I'm all for it, man. Like, I don't know how they're going to, like, yeah, the NFL situation where it's Tony Gonzalez and, like, 20 different other cats, like, I'm not sure about, I don't watch those shows, me personally. Like, that's when I go get a snack, I mute the television, maybe, you know, cut something else on.

But, you know, I want to believe that these guys can do a good job with the television, maybe cut something else on. But I want to believe that these guys can do a good job with the product, man. But you watch Ringer Wise guys on Fandle TV, right? Of course. Every single time, every ep. I'm locked in. Guys, thanks for staying up.

Any last second predictions before we go? Or we think it's OKC Minnesota? The Nuggets will be heard from before this series is over. Like the Wolves have the look. They're very hungry. They're up against a team who, you know, they won a championship last year. So that like thirstiness is not to the level, obviously, that it was, right?

Like, I don't want to say it's complacency, but, like, it's different when you're defending a championship. Everybody knows how hard it is to repeat. Like, you really got to dig in. But, like, guys, it's the Minnesota Timberwolves. They're anchored by Carl Anthony Towns in many ways. Like, this isn't some like group of guys so you can trust to just be the most insanely dedicated executioners known to man and denver like even with a a limited jamal murray nicole

yokich is still the guy that won mvp the third three mvps i think he's gonna be more assertive try to drop 40 the nuggets are gonna be heard going to be heard from, man. You agree with that house? Because I do not. I don't either, but I love it. And I'm kind of rooted for it because that means more basketball and adds to the intrigue. More drama. We need it. Yeah, I support it. I just

don't see it. I mean... The problem is Game 3 is in Minnesota. Yeah. That crowd's going to be fucking bonkers. Nobody's ever been able to win in Minnesota before. So much history. They had the A-Rod and Mark Lurie and Glenn Taylor all sitting next to each other. The group hugs. Holding hands.

So good. I rarely say stuff like this, but I really think that series is a wrap. I think Jamal's hurt. Reggie Jackson got hurt in that last game. Minnesota just has solved them from an athleticism standpoint. I don't really know what the answer is for Denver other than

Michael Porter going like 10 for 12 from three or some crazy you know. Be nice if Michael Porter did anything besides just take open jump shots. Be nice. They don't anything besides just take open jump shots. Right. Be nice. Well, they don't have that kind of heat check dude off the bench. I don't see a lot of options. Even if you

gave Jokic like 35, 13 and 12 tomorrow night, I still don't think they win. It's not this version of Murray. Jamal has got to see the same knee doctor as Luka. Oh, maybe he went to Mexico with Luka. If he and Luka quietly, we better do the plane tracker. Yeah. Jamal has got to see the same knee doctor as Luca. Oh, maybe he went to Mexico with Luca. If he and Luca, you know, quietly, we better do the plane tracker.

See if they're on the airplane together. Never underestimate the heart of a champion, folks. Love it. House, did you have any cut massage jokes for Bob Craft or no? In the Brady roast? Would you have made a massage joke? Oh, immediately. The very first thing I would have done, except for I would have been way worse than just like, would you like a massage? I would have been over.

They would have had to kick me out of that joint. He's sitting right there. And it's a roast. Like, I mean. That's the thing. You can't go to a roast, sit that close to the stage, and not expect somebody is not going to make a massage joke. Be a freaking billionaire.

Yeah. Like, you know, Be a freaking billionaire. Yeah. You know, be a freaking oligarch and think like, oh, these people can't make fun of me. Are you nuts? Nobody even did the Bob. I'm sorry you and Belichick didn't have a happy ending. Just anything.

Just like there's so many stealth ways it could have gone too bad alright Waz great to see you

you can hear Waz on the Ringer NBA show you can hear Waz on Ringer Gamble show plus Fairway Rolling got US Open not that far away

all of a sudden PJ Championship is next week PJ Championship is next week Roy McIlroy the 10th anniversary of his last major win. Putting a little bit down on Roy McIlroy.

The PGA Championship, the Survivor Series of the four golf majors, like in wrestling. Survivor Series is like, oh, yeah, it's one of the majors, is it? I don't know. It's not like SummerSlam with a Roy Wimble. It's certainly not WrestleMania. All right. Good to see you guys. This podcast was produced by

Kyle Creighton and Steve Cerruti, and we will see you over the weekend. I don't have. Must be 21 plus 18 plus DC and present in select States. Fandle offering online sports wager in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas star casino, LLC game problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit Fandle.com slash RG in Colorado, DC, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, and Vermont. Call 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text next step to 53342 in Arizona, 888-789-7777

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