The Bill Simmons Podcast - The Heat Mini-Dynasty, Remembered with Chris Bosh, Part One (Ep. 336)

Episode Date: March 8, 2018

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by two-time NBA champion Chris Bosh to discuss the rebound leading to Ray Allen's iconic shot in the 2013 Finals (6:00), the difficulty of completing a three-peat (18:00), the first season in Miami with LeBron (31:00), and the peak of the Miami Heat during the LeBron-Wade-Bosh era (40:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Kind of a boring time. Now we're waiting for March madness. I hope you're listening to one shining podcast with Tate and Titus. They're going to have everything broken down this weekend. Coming up a two part interview that I did on Tuesday afternoon with Chris Bosch, somebody I had been trying to convince to come on my podcast for a long time. And you're going to see why I think this is one of the best basketball

podcasts I've done. We had to split it into two parts. There are a lot of nuggets. He's a really thoughtful guy, and it's just cool. I mean, he's intersected with a lot of great players and been in a lot of great moments and has a rare ability to put everything in perspective. Here it is, part one, coming up right now.

But first, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, been waiting to do this one for a while. Chris Bosh. We did. You came on my HBO show. Yeah. And you had some really thoughtful comments about what Durant might be in trying to fit his game into Golden State.

Was that then? Yeah, and you were talking about, you know, people. You were talking about what you gave up when you went from being the guy in Toronto to being the uh i compared you to i remember i wrote a piece once comparing you to like the bassist in a band where you're the lead singer and the guitarist and it's like yeah that's the other guy with the guitar and it's like but i'm a lead singer and a guitarist too and that was i know that was tough for you to deal with right it was um i don't think you know one thing about

uh popular culture is that sometimes when you get involved in those things i mean our team was part of popular culture at the time and you get things thrown at you and then people forget really quickly yeah it doesn't really matter anymore um You talk about like five years later. Yeah, like five years later, it's like forgotten. And it's like, oh, yeah, hey, Chris. Yeah. Like it's all good. And then you start to see players that are in your shoes.

They get kind of in not an easier time, but they get more notoriety for their sacrifices which is great but i you know i guess somebody kind of has to pioneer the land now guys like you know draymond green he can be a team player and just go out there and play basketball and get his due yeah and and you know people can get recognized for playing this great team sport because everybody wants to score everybody wants to make the big plays sometimes you have to do the little things the game within the game that's as important if not important than the other things that people know what goes on well i think basketball the understanding of it has gotten so much more sophisticated this decade there's people right

it's a 365 day a year sport now people are they're constantly looking for angles yeah 20 years ago you're you're relegated over you're the third guy this decade it's like hey you know who's great chris bosh here's some stats that back up his impact and when he's on the court he's doing that they're doing this and yeah and people just appreciated what you're doing more i felt like well yeah i think i know i did. Well, yeah, I think it's cool the way the game is going with people being able to really dig deep and see what the game truly means, one. And two, see who affected the game.

And I was kind of thrust in that position back in that time. I mean, when we think of being in the finals or being in a championship situation as a kid what do we do we're bouncing in the driveway and we're counting down and we're the ones that take the shot nobody says oh man i'm setting this game-winning pick right get this guy open so he can make it we don't think of that so naturally um you have to come from that place to saying okay in order for us to win these things have to happen and um it's it's quite a question because everybody and even if you're successful in doing it once let's say hey i'm supposed to be

a facilitator for this team to do well we win a championship that's great then everybody starts getting deals everybody starts getting notoriety then it's like okay we need you to facilitate less and be an encouraging guy on the bench everybody doesn't want to hear that yeah you know even if it's uh for the benefit of the team and that's always um the challenge especially with team sports well i mean the greatest play your career i'm not even sure people fully understand what it was and meanwhile it was one of the great rebounds of all time so i'll tell you a story when i was in Toronto um Sam Mitchell was my coach and I was averaging like 20 something points a game and if I wasn't scoring like in the first half I'd just be terrible yeah I play a bad

game and he pulled me to the side one day he always used to pull me to the side and just tell me all the time like hey man look you can't just because you're not scoring you can't let that affect you you're still a good great player yeah you need to be like that on both ends of the court just because you're not scoring doesn't mean you can't rebound and you know be a bum on defense you have to do better you got better. And he was always on me. And in that particular series, really, offense wasn't – it was not going to be it for me. The 13 finals. Yeah. It's going to be – it's too tough to get a bucket.

We have a plethora of talent on offense, so we've got to move it. If I've got it, I've got it. If I don't, move it and get other guys um you know second and third and fourth situations but I had to be a certain type of player on defense you have to be great on defense you have to be great in the little things and that message was always resonating with me the whole series especially when it got tough because you know, you try to remember old lessons or things just come to you at certain times. And what he told me back then was huge. And you end up getting the rebound that leads to the greatest shot of all time.

Yeah. And you get a rebound in traffic. It didn't feel like traffic to me. See, in the video it's traffic. Yeah, you know, it was just one of those things like this is mine. You know, it was meant for me. It was like slow motion. You know, I tell just one of those things like, this is mine. You know, it was meant for me. It was like slow motion. You know, I tell people I didn't experience.

I watched a replay of it, and it was way faster than what it looked like. I thought it was, like, way slower. And somebody showed me, because it was like, how did you see Ray? I said, I don't know. He was just right there. It just made sense. You know what I mean? I mean, he was looking at me.

I said, you know, he just passed it. And the one guy in history who had actually practiced that shot because he's a psychopath yeah and he spent three hours for the game he told me his footwork for that shot who else would even think to do that i i know and i asked him after the game we were taking a shower you know i'm just kind of just in a daze i was in a daze for 24 hours. Did that happen? It's like you're checking you to make sure you're still alive, right? We hit the showers, and I asked him,

did you practice that? Of course. He said, yeah, I practiced that. He's like, I'm a crazy person. I do practice that. Ever since that day, I practiced that same shot. I tell guys, man, you got to watch him doing doing just he'll lay on the floor and get up and run to the three-point line shoot it i wrote uh so i was there because we're doing tv that year

and then i wrote a column about a year later because i still couldn't get over the game i've been to a lot of great basketball games i've been lucky that one i i've never seen anything like that you guys were done the crowd was leaving yeah we were we like that. You guys were done. The crowd was leaving. Yeah, we were up and then we were done. It would happen so quickly. All of a sudden, you're down five, 28 seconds left. They're putting the rope. They're starting to put the rope.

They wheel the trophy out. And then LeBron misses the three. And the first crazy thing that happened was there's four Spurs under the basket in a square and all of them missed the rebound i think all that might have touched it yeah i think um yeah it was i don't know who touched it but i know it came down or it yeah like seven people it was a brick it was a tough yeah it was a brick it was terrible if it would have hit the rim any other way they probably would have get the rebound right now we're in deeper trouble. So D-Wade comes in and grabs it. Yeah, get a handle on it. Back to LeBron, he makes it.

Yeah. So now you're down two. Yeah. And you foul Kawhi. Mm-hmm. And he was shooting the free throw. Our set was right behind the basket. And I got to say, man, sometimes I don't know how athletes do it.

The crowd was like everybody's standing and just yelling at him, trying to distract him and it was so intense and even magic was like you know he had to look on his face i didn't think he had any chance of making those he missed the first but he actually made the second second that first one's always tough one and one thing i noticed when when that happens that you can feel shaking. Yeah, you can feel it in the arena. So when you're shooting those free throws, and I've never shot any free throws more important than that,

but I've shot some important ones. Sometimes the basket moves. Yeah. Sometimes you're moving, and it's like, man, it is definitely loud in here. My hand is shaking because the stadium is shaking. And you're supposed to make it. That's tough. I would have bet my life he was going to miss both.

Because you're right. You could feel the earth kind of moving. It did seem like the basket wasn't totally straight. Man, the basket moves. And everyone's just yelling at the top of their lungs at him. And it's 20,000 people. Yeah, it's a lot of noise. And I was just like, how just like how's this guy gonna do and he was like 21 years old yeah even him making the second one i thought was an achievement our game plan and which is crazy to

say but the the thing in the huddle was like hey if we can foul anybody the worst foul shooter is kawaii leonard at 69 and a half percent yeah you know that's that's a it's still seven out of ten yeah it's still seven out of ten and he got the ball and we fouled him so i mean it just kind of worked out did you think so you're in that time out five down 528 left and everybody's defeated yeah we were watching it for a moment yeah yeah so at that point are you because you had had that was the same year that 27 game winning streak yeah and people lebron had come out the first couple months and was shooting 60 for two months yeah he was going and it was like oh my god what is happening and then all of a sudden it's like wow we're gonna

lose the finals this is it what the hell is happening yeah but all this is happening during a three minuteminute timeout. What are you thinking in that moment? At first it was like, oh, no. Because the whole sequence was Tony Parker had the ball. Our game plan at the time was to put, I think brian on the four that way we could switch to pick and roll and have him on tony late clock it happened no on the five yeah and we switched he gets on he gets on you know their play breaks down he's switched on t. I'm like, yes, this is what we want.

He hits a step back three. Right. We get shocked. So then we turn it over. They score. We turn it over. They score. And then it's like, oh, no. Then they turn over again.

I think we missed a shot or turn. I can't remember what happened. And then they have the ball up five. And then so we call a timeout. And you kind of snap out of it and you realize i realized at the time that it they start bringing those ropes out and everything and then i was like man and so i started getting flashbacks of dallas yeah and so you know we're kind of getting going through ptsd at the time i'm shell shocked pretty bad we go over and sit down. I start looking at everybody.

Everybody's looking down. Brian is biting the hell out of his nails. Is that a good sign or a bad sign? It's not good at that time. Yeah. It's not good at that time. It's just the way he's doing it. It's more like, I don't know, he's chewing more.

It's like, Brian, there's no nail left. Yeah, he's chewing more it's like bron there's no nail left yeah he's just getting the skin you know and d is kind of everybody's just kind of got that thousand yard stare yeah and uh and so i i sit down and i'm just kind of just looking at everybody else and i always tell this story to to friends and everything but my wife she sits courtside yeah um she was not looking at me and for whatever reason she started standing up and clapping and so that snapped me back into it and was like okay we got the ball we need a three you know and wow this is what an inspiring story about marriage this is great yeah she's in there too this is i'm telling about

you unbelievable this is like adrian balboa and rocky three she got rocky back man you got rocky back man they make those movies for a reason and she stood up clapping and she wasn't even looking at me yeah she could have looked at me with the you know puppy doll guys and be like it'll be okay right but she i don't even i don't even know what she was looking at she's just looking like toward the other basket yeah so then so you get that you miss the three to tie it you get the rebound ray's backpedaling and because he's a psycho he knows exactly where the out of bounds is in the three-point line he knows the number of years the court and he's a psycho, he knows exactly where the out-of-bounds is and the three-point line. He knows the number of foot steps. He is the court. And he's shooting that because I rooted for him in Boston.

Even as he's going backwards, I was like, he's going to make this. I honestly felt like he was going to make it. Did you feel the same way? Yeah, I was like, oh, my God. You know what? This is going in. It just happened so fast. So it was like, you know, I told you, slow motion.

I was able to get the rebound, and I was able to watch the flight of the ball because nobody they ended up switching and kind of got stuck. And so Tony, Tony Parker sniffed out the play we were running. But it was almost like he was too smart. Yeah, because he sniffed the play and then Brian still caught it anyway. But Boris Diaw stepped up as well. And they both kind of had him. So that allowed me a free track to the basket. We should mention there was no Tim Duncan in the game, which was a massive mistake by one of the great coaches ever.

No Tim Duncan. Oh, yeah, I mean. Probably would have wanted to have the greatest power forward of all time in the game for the biggest rebound of the game. Yeah, I'm sure. That helped you. I'm sure Pops is probably, you know, coaches, that's what's what they do when he's like 85 he'll be thinking about that one he's like oh my god i didn't think i'd done good and then the other crazy thing that happened which i didn't

even realize i did a podcast with steve kerr like four months ago and he was saying so ray allen makes it everyone goes crazy and the spurs had actually numbers and an advantage and they had parker who was the fastest guy on the court, and went in by the bottom, but the refs stopped it because they wanted to make sure Real and Defeat were in. They did. And Popovich, if you watch the video, he was going crazy because he was like, we had Tony Parker with five seconds left,

foot race down the court, maybe gets to the rim. We were back, though. I was back in the corner. Were you back at that point? I was back because everybody kind of like Stopped for a minute Alright And then we was like

And then I heard Don't tell Popovich Because I think he thinks He still got screwed But I heard somebody Go go I don't know if it was Spurs or Pop

But you know We were like Wow Oh no get back You know And we started to get back Then they stopped it They probably would have still had numbers.

Yeah. And fast Tony Parker. Yeah, he was great that series. And he was phenomenal. He probably, you know, they definitely would have made a play. So then you win in OT, game seven, the Spurs, incredible amount of heart considering what happened to them. And they're in the game with like a minute left.

And this was on the basket we were sitting at too Duncan misses a shot he's probably made a hundred million times little like seven

little like six footer little jump hook was it over you or was it over somebody else no it was Shane yeah yeah over Shane yeah

he's made it a million times and somehow it doesn't go in and he I remember he got a tip too yeah yeah he missed the tip he got his hand on it and million times, and somehow it doesn't go in. I remember. He got a tip, too. Yeah, yeah. He missed the tip. He got his hand on it.

And he runs back. And Tim Duncan, who never has emotion ever, he runs back, gets to midcourt, and he goes down. He slams the floor. Yeah. And I was like, that's it. Miami just won. That was like the little moment. But, man.

They still had a shot, though, after that. They still had a couple plays, and we were able to stop them and everything. Nobody's ever gone to the cliff in a series in the finals and actually won the series like that, in my opinion. No, it doesn't happen. I don't think anybody's ever come closer to losing and actually pulled it out than that. Yeah, not in the finals. I don't even know what else could happen that would make it crazier than that

except for somebody hitting a half-court shot or something to tie the game. Well, yeah, I don't even know what else could happen that would make it crazier than that, except for somebody hitting a half-court shot or something to tie the game. Well, yeah. I don't know. We'll have to see. But, yeah, it was definitely stressful. I didn't want to play basketball after that anymore. It was crazy. I was like, man.

Let's go to the beach. Yeah, I don't want to do this anymore. It's not fun anymore. And then your accountant was like, here's how much they're paying you next year. You're like, all right, I'll paying you next year. Like, all right, I'll do it again. I mean, I'm going on a nice vacation and that's cool.

But, oh my God, it was, it was stressful. Then the next year, you know, they mopped us up. Yeah.

They got, they went to another level those last few games. Yeah. They got busy. They do that. I thought we were going to win. We won game two. I'm like,

yeah, we're going to three P we're going to be up there, you know're going to three-peat. We're going to be up there with the three-peaters. It's like, not so fast, man. We're inspired right now. They were locked in. They were moving the ball insanely. The way they were playing is really how most people are playing now. They were kind of foreshadowing where basketball was going with the space yeah they spaced you guys out no turnovers one thing that

was they figured out the space with two traditional bigs that's like that's a lost art that doesn't happen as much i think golden state is pretty good with it but it's not traditional big you know that yeah that's like i want to see javel mcgee and david west you know with that spacing but they've got their thing and it works it helped that boris could hit threes yeah yeah boris played unbelievably boris was great that he yeah he couldn't miss we didn't know if he was going to pass it or shoot it yeah and he he played you know phenomenal basketball but yeah it's interesting to see um those aspects in the league today. But I think Golden State was kind of sitting back watching that series and was like, hmm. What is this? Yeah.

We got, you know, the best of both teams. And we've got these aliens who can, you know, shoot threes from half court. Yeah. Let's do this. Right. And, I mean, to watch them play now it's it's amazing basketball because they have four all-stars but the ball is moving at a high high pace and it never sticks i mean it's two three seconds and it's on to the next one and it helps that yeah your next situation is kevin

durant coming off and pin down and if he doesn't have it it's a kevin durant stephen curry screen and roll you know so they're always just putting you in situations 22 seconds into you know uh with 22 seconds left in the shot clock and it's it's fast it also helps to have three of the greatest like nine shooters of all time yeah it's pretty cool to have 50 40 it, 90 guys. It's kind of an advantage. I'd pass it to them, too. I'd be, man, I'd be, you know, they get Draymond in a tough time, I'd be passing, too.

I'm a facilitator, man. You see these guys? I'm passing it to them. Let's take a quick break. We're gonna take a break to talk about Amazon Music, the simplest way to listen to the music you love. Discover tens of millions of songs, including the hottest new releases and thousands of curated playlists and stations across all your devices. And all you have to do is ask for them.

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All the alternative music that was kind of after the generation that I loved with basically the alternative era, the 90s. But then there was this great 2002 to 2005 era, and I put 26 of my favorite songs on there. You're going to have to find them. It is on Amazon. New customers, start your 30-day free trial at AmazonMusic.com. That is AmazonMusic.com. Renews automatically, cancels any time. Hey, the recapables.

I told you about that at Atlanta Season 2. And you know what else goes up Friday morning for us? NBA Desktop. The hottest show on the internet right now. That's what we like to say. Jason Concepcion breaks down everything going on in the NBA. It's like talk soup crossed with

one of Jason's crazy Twitter videos crossed with I don't know what. There's always a lot to talk about. You can find it on theringer.com slash videos on our main page, on Jason's Twitter feed, on the Ringer's Twitter feed, all that stuff. It's really good, and I'm proud of the dudes that make that one

because I like it. Seven great minutes of content. All right, speaking of great content, back to Chris Bosh. The Warriors, the parallels with them and the stuff you went through in Miami, Steve Kerr goes into the season this year talking about how difficult it's going to be this is going to be so hard yeah this is gonna be the hardest thing we've ever done yeah it's so hard to do this four straight finals he told us we couldn't three-peat and we were like man what

does he know he's right yeah he's right so i actually thought i don't know if that was the right strategy and then next time i have mine i really want to ask him whether he would play it that way again because in a way he kind of gave them a crutch to to throw away the random game on a tuesday night because oh coach told us we were going to be tired um but you went through this what so year one obviously you're going all out yeah you you blow the finals you're up 15 in game two you seem like you're headed for a sweep and it just snowballs it goes out of control we gained experience you gained the experience year two you get over the hump yeah year three you pull it out yeah and by the end of year four those last couple rounds we're good enough to get there but we're just not good enough so what so what changes explain the uh injuries um you know teamwork um not to

say that we weren't you know working together but just sometimes it's tougher it gets tougher and tougher to do your job and to get fresh yeah to get your mind fresh i remember being in the playoffs and it just seemed like another game the playoffs like the first round it's like you need it's like you need that adrenaline shot the other team it's like the biggest game of their life yeah you have to have that thing yeah and by the time you you can't cheat the process you know you have to be a certain particular way um when you get to the finals and we were not it and we had injuries guys weren't playing well was having tough playoff runs you know that is starting to get old that year 2014 yeah but you know man i mean that guy's a warrior he went six he went six or seven in game seven you know after after they buried him

yeah you know he was done and you know he's one of the greatest of all time to me because i watched him you know come through and in big situations where nobody believed in him nobody cared he wasn't playing he wasn't playing yeah they benched his ass it was just like damn man shane he couldn't hit anything and i remember we were getting up shots and you could tell he was just having a rough time because he still was working just as hard and even it was translating into his practice he missed shots that he'd normally make and i mean he was just in a tough place mentally but to break through um and come through as he doesn't get enough recognition for that i remember i was standing i used to go stand on the court early because i loved watching everybody warm up and you could also find little tidbits and shane was over there for one like when he wasn't playing yeah he was like

i was like you all right and he's like i don't know man i was like are you what are they telling you about you're not playing he's like not telling me anything and i was like can i say that on tv he's like i don't care i'm like all right i was like whoa this I say that on TV? He's like, I don't care. I'm like, all right. I was like, whoa, this is getting serious. He was shot, man. He was pissed. He was shot, yeah. And I mean, he wasn't, yeah, I mean, he moved out of rotation. And I mean, it just kind of, everybody has their own things going at that time

because everybody is against the wall. So, yeah, the coaches probably didn't handle it the right way. Or maybe they handled it the perfect way because he went six for seven seven yeah no this is just uh brain tease you know you'll never know never know um but you know he came he came through when it was time and so guys like that i feel that they need their their moment in sports man and. And I know he gets it, but just watching him battle through something as tough as that, it was amazing.

So yeah, the next year, yeah, I mean, it's tough. I don't know if the NBA is really built for a team to make the finals four straight times unless you have some sort of fortuitous, amazing roster thing, which you guys had.

And now Golden State has it too. Just in general, everything I've ever read about this stuff and anyone I've ever talked to, it's just the grind of when you get to that fourth finals, man, and you're playing nine months a year for four straight years. It's just ridiculous. And we had a lockout, so those two months probably, maybe that's the only reason we were able to do that four years in a row.

But the lockout was its own special crazy part because we still played 60 games. 66? Yeah, it was crazy. That year was insane. Plus you played like 20 playoff games, so you're playing like 83, 84 games in six months. But yeah, we were motivated. i don't think it was anything

stopping us that year i think sometimes you work your way if you're so motivated as a team it doesn't matter if a dude says hey you gotta mop the floors at 6 a.m you'll be there 5 55 every morning because you're motivated well what do you remember from that first year now because um we talked about a little when you were on my HBO show, but to be the villains, it didn't seem like any of you guys were prepared for that. No. You were like, oh, we're going to do this. And everybody's going to understand.

People love it. And it was the complete opposite. People were like, fuck those guys. Complete opposite, man. I mean, it took me for a loop because I was coming from Toronto. So I'm essentially like damn near like the foreign exchange to and like hey i'm in america everybody's like shut up you know yo who cares yeah nobody cares and you know uh we i didn't know that the whole parade thing

we didn't plan that you know not one not two i got some good jokes out of that and yeah i mean but at the time it's like fun and and and i'm like yeah that's what we're here to do we're here to win championships that's our mind frame we're not here to we're here to win them all and then people just kind of you know you give it to the the people and they can do what they want with it and and yeah that was an easy one walked right into that one it's really tough when you hit that when you hit that point where people are just like fuck those guys and yeah i mean it's really hard to walk that coming though no that's what i mean but once it happens you're like oh shit now what do we do yeah it's like oh okay and then i was rooting against you guys i loved it i was like i hope those guys go 40 and 42.

It was hard. We were right at 500 mid-November, and we're expecting. We have expectations, but it's not happening like that, and we kind of don't know how to be a team yet. We still have to chill. At that point, Wade was still at the top of his powers. Yeah, he was playing very well. And LeBron was LeBron. LeBron was LeBron.

How did these guys figure this out? I don't know, man. I mean, you have to have conversations. And, I mean, you have to eventually realize some things. And then we did. But then that formula wasn't the one that works. So then we were humbled. We got a good – we learned what it was.

We learned the pain that, you know Dirk and uh Jason Terry went through and Jason Kidd went through multiple times they had that thing that you need to get over the hump I say yeah I mean it's almost everybody Larry Bird had it it's almost everybody who was great in the NBA went through it once you have a moment where you're just like you don't want to leave your house and you don't want to come outside because everybody knows you failed yeah um and and that's one of the things that you have to beat and you see how it can destroy some people yeah how you'll never be the same basketball player again but you that's a part of it it's a part of what we do so we've got to dust ourselves off and come back the next year were you worried worried about LeBron? Because I went to all those games and something happened to him in that Dallas series

and it was like, wow, has he been broken by basketball fans? Yeah, he had moments. I mean, it's like it's everything you want to do. And you think that. I remember we were shooting one time. We went back at night. I used to go back every night and we were shooting and he was there too. And so I was watching him shoot and he was, you know, he just seemed like something was on his mind. And, you know, I said, Hey man, look, we've got two games at home to win an NBA championship.

We good. And he said, yeah, you're right, but everybody, you know, wants me to fail. Yeah. And I felt the same way. So, you know, we had a conversation and talked deeper. But it's just like, dang, you know, I mean, yeah, it's tough to beat. And nobody got it like he got it. Nobody.

The decision made people crazy. I include myself. Yeah, nobody got it like he got it nobody the decision made people crazy i mean nobody got it yeah nobody got it like he got it so yeah yeah it was at that point where it comes down to this and your back is against the wall and you you're gonna react we're all human and um it happened um i was i i think i wasn't too worried because everything happened so fast. I got married that summer. Yeah. So I couldn't be down too long. And I think when we had our wedding, it was a great party and everybody came. And that kind of got us back into like a good feeling, you know, because everybody was there and it was just a huge party we tore miami up yeah had a great time and that kind of that was our first time seeing each other since the finals

and then everybody was just you know the spirit was back a little bit and then 2012 i went to the boston game boston goes up 3-2 yeah 2012 eastern finals with this pretty old team that was on its last run but they felt like they were in LeBron's head and they owned LeBron and Garnett and Pierce were talking so much shit to him in Miami and they really felt like we've broken this guy we have him

and they come to Boston for game 6 and LeBron plays one of the best games I've ever seen in my life that's all it's about and that's why I'm excited to see Golden State. I want to see, you know, I want to see their backs against the wall. No offense to them. They're a great team, but I want to see how they respond when it's tight, because that's a part of the process. You know, you have to, you can't cheat that. And they've been great. And I want to see how far they get pushed because that's a part of life. It's a part of sports, you know, who rises to the occasion in those moments.

They kind of had those moments a couple times, but not like, I don't know, man. So they had OKC game, game six OKC. Clay just had got super hot and carrying them. Yeah, they did come back. They had the 3-1 comeback, and then I was like, okay, but I want more. You want more stories. Game seven, they got tight. Last six minutes, the game slows down, and they miss everything.

And then LeBron has the block. Kyrie makes the 1-3. Cleveland didn't even really play that well the last six minutes, but they got those two plays, and that was the difference. They were that grinded-out boxer. They put on the ropes and then you know it's like oh man what's going on and he hit a three and but that's what you want on the road you know you can ask for it's a very close game you want to muck it up a little bit and then you know if you have a play to it comes down to that that's your thing and that worked out perfect for cleveland yeah um

would you like'd you like do you like big wins on the road or at home more because home's funner you can go right home you know you don't have to it's funny because some people love like Larry Bird was like my favorite is when we went on the road I love how quiet it gets it's fun like going into the tunnel everybody shuts up yeah and he's like I like that yeah it's different. And he's like, I like that. Yeah, it's different. Do we ever close a series? I don't know if we ever close a series out on the road. Maybe like once, but it was.

You probably closed like one of those Indiana. Yeah, but it wasn't like a big deal. It was like, okay. You're supposed to. You get the ones like, okay, like in the regular season when you quiet everybody. It's like, yeah, but that's just to get back to normal so you can have a normal night. The best one you had was that game six in Bostonoston on the road i think yeah that was that was like if you lose that one now you've blown it's over we already know it's over i mean we knew we're

probably getting traded somebody's getting somebody's getting trade we we understood in that locker room what it meant we we knew i mean because we're close friends. So it's like, hey, man. This could be it. Yeah, you know what happens if we lose. And there's nothing else to say. Did you expect that from LeBron, though? No. What he did in the level he went to. I was too conscious.

I was thinking, how am I going to perform? Because you got crazy KG. Yeah, I mean, we're in Boston. Forget everything else. Forget the team they have. Forget all those other things. We're playing the champ're in Boston. Forget everything else. Forget the team they have. Forget, you know, all those other things. We're playing the champs in Boston. Yeah.

So, I mean, in an elimination game, and we have to win, and we got to win one more after that. Yeah. So we're just trying to get home. And that kind of, I mean, it kind of puts you in a place where there's nothing else to say. I just remember me just trying to, you trying to get together because I had an injury. So I'm in pain, but I'm like, okay, what can I do?

Your shoulder was messed up? Growing. Yeah, it was a growing injury. I remember you hit a giant three in game seven that I'm still pissed off about. Which it was like two. Game seven in Miami. Well, there was one. Yeah, maybe you hit two.

Yeah, it was two. I was like, I Well, there was one. Yeah, maybe you hit two. Yeah, it was two. I was like, I thought this guy was hurt. What the hell? What happened to Andrew Kraspach? It came back, man. Why is he making threes? I told my friend, my best friend, I was at a shoot around that morning, and Brian has a game.

We get back home, and I remember just being at a shoot around. Everything I was shooting was going in. And we were at lunch. I just said, man, I just feel I'm really going to have a big game tonight. I'm not missing tonight. I think I told him in a confident way. He was like, yeah, yeah, whatever, man. And so, I mean, I was still feeling it.

And so every time I touched it, I was like, yo, I'm just going to shoot it. And then usually it was twos that I was shooting. That's when I first started shooting threes. Moving back. Yeah, because I was like yo I'm just gonna shoot it and then usually it was twos that I was shooting that's when I first started shooting threes moving back yeah because I was like I'm so comfortable I'm just gonna you know do these steps back because I've worked on it so much and Brian being a selfish the way he is he was able to find me because I don't think they thought he was gonna move it uh the way he did and it wasn't anything else to think about we almost stole that series from you we were right there yeah it was scary man old ass Celtic team in Rondo it's great but you know it's like you get to those points man where it's like golly these guys are still great and we're trying to be great so they're trying to taste you taste the victory again and they know what they want and they're trying to taste the taste of victory again. And they know what they want and they know what it takes to get there.

And they put us in that position. And I mean, by that time, we were kind of just like, man, this is the situation. It really doesn't matter. We've got to go in game six and and get this thing. And then you just kind of watch, you know watch a guy just go crazy. I remember I was just thinking like, yeah, all right, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. Then it's like, okay, then bucket. All right, bucket. Because I'm underneath the basket going for rebounds.

Bucket. Like, man, that's good too. But like what is going on? And we were able to get back. Oh, man. The crowd, it just became grim by midway through the second quarter the crowd everybody there is like we're winning yeah we're gonna break the heat this is done that would have been the worst you know it killed our careers right there we get a lot of there's a

lot of bodies in boston man we wanted it under td waterhouse in the old uh square stadium man it's it's a lot of a lot of ghosts there man they finished off a lot of guys do you feel uh now that a couple years have passed do you feel cheated that your the run was so fast because we're talking you start playing you sign in july 2010 and by June 2014, it's basically over. Right, yeah. And you never got to go through that. Back at 500. Even the Celtics, that 2012 team, that was year five.

And that was like, no, they're done. Oh, actually, there's a lot of pride left with these guys. They're right back again. Yeah, you guys never had that chapter. Yeah, I mean makes it's a quick read but i think that's one of the things that makes it cool looking back at it um it's like a blip yeah it's just a blip and it's kind of just this moment in time and now in the barbershop conversations we don't get to compete against that uh warriors team, and now forever,

it's just going to be who was better, who would have beat who. Yeah. I just want to compete. I just would have loved to play those guys because it was going to happen, right? Yeah. But, you know, it's just kind of an open-ended thing. Yeah, I mean, it just kind of goes on, man. I mean, a lot of things happen.

I mean, me and my position now looking back on it's like well you know that's the way i guess it's supposed to be because that's the story right and um yeah usually guys get that extended run they get that first blitz and then after that they get the time where they're holding on for dear life uh yeah we didn't get that as a group but um it was still a hell of a ride what was the best what was the peak of the peak uh of how good you guys were what do you when you look back at that you're like the win streak march that's what i feel like just watch it from afar yeah march we had the best player playing the best basketball yeah on the best team with the best guys in my opinion i think that year we were that was uh the best yeah like nba 2k if they put that team that's the team i think um that year

um during that time it was it was a great time it just felt like we couldn't lose and even i remember being down 20 so many times yeah and it drove spoke crazy he hated it and it was funny i was talking uh fizzdale a few weeks ago about it and he said man you know we were getting so mad and just after a while i just said supposed to down man whatever i remember one that one time we were down 27 in cleveland and came back and won and that was the part it was like 15 or something like that and you know it just kept going it was just one of those fun special times that um i think we were just at our best yeah highly motivated and physically gifted it was incredible to watch i do think it almost cost you guys the title though because it turned into when you hit around 15 16 after that every game was a playoff game yeah and you're

playing playoff games in march when nobody gives a shit now people are resting in march they don't they want no part of that they're like chris take a seat yeah it's whack the young fellas they rest in rookies now like rest a rookie what yeah? Yeah. Rest? He don't need rest. The rookie wall's coming. Yeah, run him in the wall. This is part of it. Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, then, yeah, everybody wanted to beat us,

but it made it fun. But then, of course, like, when it got broken, we went to Chicago. You know, we kind of knew, like, all right, come on. That's going to be a tough one. Yeah, it's going to be a tough one. Hey, rest it there, guys. I think we played them on, like, a Thursday. That's going to be a tough one. It's going to be a tough one. Hey, rest it there, guys. I think we played them on like a Thursday. Nobody played Tuesday.

Yeah. And we knew Tibbs was going to be ready. He's a competitor. I think I wrote after, and I think I stand by it. I think that was the best regular season game I've ever seen. It was literally like a game seven. It was intense, man. You just don't get that in March.

It was like you guys didn't want the street 10, and they really wanted to break it. Yeah, I i mean it kind of turns into this thing because the media starts asking oh is it a thing and his athletes know we're just one game at a time probably yeah it's all bullshit he's just of course yeah but then you have to do it you have to say the the the the you know typical things to so you can stay on track with your mind and what you need to do and then like yeah it comes down to you're competitive. You don't want the streak to be broken. We want to break the big streak.

Yeah, we're talking about it amongst ourselves. But, you know, it's tough, man. Well, it hit a point where that became this. I'm not surprised that you felt like that was a signature moment of those four years because I feel like it was too. That and the Ray Allen shot are the two things. Yeah. It's weird.

The OKC series has gotten lost in the sense of history. Meanwhile, those first four games were really good. Yeah. OKC played well. I think people now remember it as a five-game pounding. It wasn't like that. No, it was not at all. They won game one.

They had three future MVPs in that team. Yeah, we got out of that game two. Yeah, LeBron got the cramps in that one game. Yeah, game three we beat them. Game four, that's when LeBron got the cramps. But I don't know if anybody remembers, they jumped on us in the first quarter. They were up 17, 18 points really quick. We had to come back from that.

And then LeBron goes down, and Mario Chalmers made a big play. And, yeah, it was not easy. Then game five, it was like, you know, I was playing the eye of the tiger. Game five, it was done. Yeah, it was, nah, it wasn't happening. They were too young. Well, they were young, and we had that taste. Yeah.

We knew what it meant. They might not have known exactly what it meant. They were probably like, hey, we're going to get back to Oklahoma City. We're like, no, we're not going back. And that's kind of – I said that when we won game two. We're not coming back here. I love when people talk about now like, oh, my God, Golden State and Houston. There would be so many great players on the court.

And I'm like, go check out the 2012 finals. Yeah. You had LeBron at peak of his powers wade and bosh and then on the other team durant hard and westbrook and abaca yeah that's i don't know that's pretty good no they were everybody but yeah for them they were just 21 and 22 at the time you know and and then even kd he knew what he had but i think russ was figuring out like oh yeah you know he was starting to get his formula together well what you didn't know is that they were going to trade hard in three months and then you didn't have to worry about them that was that was crazy he was the key to the series

for us yeah he we because you stopped at him yeah we had to stop him because we were like okay their top two guys they're probably gonna get there they're gonna get yeah 50 combined points we just can't have 50 shooting harden if you look at all their games especially when they beat the spurs that year he was the point guard yeah he was handling the ball and that allowed kd and uh russ to play off the ball yeah he was the guy making the plays and that's that's pretty that's what do you do he he was a young guy who did not play well in that finals yeah and i don't think people i think that made people not realize how good he was he just had a bad finals he's going to get to lebron james in his prime yeah and you guys attacked him

the whole finals we were on him like yeah dog on a bone it's probably the best thing that ever happened to him yeah it is because he knows um you know how that stress can get to you because we're like okay we're gonna trap him every single time we're not letting him have any open looks and he might get some but you watch him they be in and out easy shot he misses it that's and as a player when that happens to you you're kind of like and then on d whoever he was guarding you were attacking him yeah we were attacking him. And they were switching him on Brian and Brian was putting him. That's like no fair.

I mean, I don't care who's down there. If it's on me, I'm going to ask for a double team or help. Right. So they kind of put him out there on an island. And we were able to take advantage of it. And, you know, just those little opportunities, we understood how to take advantage of those. Now I'm sure KD, Russ, Harden, now they know.

And I'm interested to see how they're going to utilize that knowledge. One last thing on LeBron. You were with him at his absolute apex as a basketball player. What was the most amazing thing you saw him do? It was for a while during that win streak at the beginning of the win streak when it was like eight or nine or something like that. He would come out every third quarter and have like a 20-point third quarter for like two weeks.

It was crazy. On the road. We were on a road trip. Like intentionally? I don't know. I mean,. Like intentionally? I don't know. I mean, it just happened. I don't know. I can't even – yeah, the only way I can describe it is he would come out

and we – you know, it would be like a one-point game, two-point game, and then he would just start shooting threes. Like he was out there by himself and he hit three in a row, four in a row, sometimes five. Just take the game over and have 20 points like that. Yeah. And we'd be up 15, 20 points. And then that was it.

Yeah, it was easy. It was like you just end up watching him kind of perform. And, I mean, just kind of that, just being able to see both him and Dwayne, I admired them so much because I was able to kind of see what they did to work on their games and see what kind of tricks they had and the moves that they used. And that motivated me to get better and work on expanding my game and getting a lot better at the things I can do and the things I can bring to the team. You really hit the ladder with that one. Yeah. Getting that free agency. Yeah, I mean, to the team. You really hit the lottery with that one.

Yeah. Getting that free agency. Yeah, I mean, we're lucky. Being at the same time with that. I mean, LeBron's one of the three best players ever. Yeah, we're lucky. He's the fourth best shooting guard of all time. Yeah.

I mean, and it's funny. I played in high school against LeBron. I remember seeing him early. And you don't think about those moments. You just kind of you kind of just go and hope to make the league and everybody's off on their own story and then you get an opportunity and it's not easy at first especially the first year we had to learn how to gel and learn how to deal with the pressure and we had to learn nobody You know, nobody cares about your hopes and dreams, bro.

And I'm going to tell that to the athletes now. Nobody cares. Get over it and just win. All right, that wraps up part one. If you want to hear part two, we are putting that up tomorrow. Thanks to ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. My listeners can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com. Thanks to SimpliSafe and their brand new home security system.

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And if you missed the Jimmy Kimmel Cousins Out podcast earlier this week, it was really good. So was the Charlie Warzel podcast about internet culture. I don't know what else I can do, people. I just give you free podcasts and they're all really good. You're welcome. I'll see you tomorrow. I'll see you tomorrow.