The Bill Simmons Podcast - The Jalen Rose Reunion Special (Ep. 318)

Episode Date: January 25, 2018

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons reunites with Jalen Rose to discuss the origins of The Fab Five (5:00), Jalen's rise at ESPN (14:00), 'The Grantland Basketball Hour' (30:00), the NBA All-Star draft (36:00), LeBron's longevity in the East (1:01:00), Kawhi Leonard's situation on the Spurs (1:16:00), Coach K's new sales pitch (1:28:00), and the best NBA Finals cities (1:40:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's very special episode of the BS Podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network presented by ZipRecruiter. What if a point guard made 80% of his threes? What if Jalen Rose got 80% of his predictions right on NBA Countdown? Never. What are you at now? Like 20? Like 13%. Well, now when you're hiring, you can play at that level because 80 of employers who post a job on zip recruiter get a quality candidate through the site just one day their powerful technology learns what you're

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Yeah. A person that relies on you to eat. Right. Well, that's what ZipRecruiter does. My listeners can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash BS. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire, as well as the presenting sponsor of this podcast. We're also brought to you by the Rewatchables. That's our podcast where we break down movies.

We might have to drag you on to Rewatchables at some point. What's your favorite movie? Friday? I've been sleeping on the movies lately yeah you're stuck in the 80s and 90s i am definitely well we did goodwill hunting friday ranks me sean fantasy chris ryan shea serrano broke it down for 103 minutes it's fantastic check it out subscribe to that podcast on apple wherever you get your podcasts we're also brought to you by jalen and jacoby wow. One of the Grantland babies. How about that?

It's now like a full grown man. Do you feel old when we call you the pop father? I think you're the only two that does that. It's a good nickname though. It's like your kids are the only people that call you dad. So it started out on the Grantland YouTube network as the Jalen Rose Show. Yes, indeed. With co-host Dave Jacoby.

We had to teach him for a solid year how to sit up straight on camera. Remember he was all bent over? He was slouching. Had to get his body language in order. We got his body language in. We changed the name

to Jalen and Jacoby. It became a little bit of a YouTube phenomenon. It did. As well as a podcast. Remember it was getting like 100,000, 150,000. No doubt. ESPN decided As well as a podcast. Remember? It was getting like 100,000, 150,000. No doubt.

ESPN decided to give it a show. Yes. It was at really weird time slots. And now it's on a good time slot. I know. 2 p.m. No question. And ultimate hat tip and salute to you for believing in us.

That was you guys. No, it was you. Because for those that don't know, I'm going to tell the story. You were enjoying yourself at the Espy's, just chilling, rooftop W Hotel. Wait, hold on. We got to talk about this because I'm not sure this was the story. Your version of the story is that I'm not sure it's the right version. Let's bring in Pearl Jam then.

My old friend, my family member, Jalen Rose, coming up. all right so listen my brain doesn't work 100% of the time. Here's what I remember. Okay. First of all, we met at some point during the Fab Five documentary, which was not a 30 for 30, but is now considered a 30 for 30. It was during the stretch between Volume 1 and Volume 2 when the powers that be had decided to call documentaries ESPN Films Presents instead of 30 for 30, and we had to spend almost two years fighting with them to get them to change it back to 30 for 30

because everyone's calling it a 30 for 30. You did this and everyone's like, that was a great 30 for 30. And it wasn't a 30 for 30. But it actually was. So now we consider it part of the 30 for 30 family. So we met, I think we did a podcast, I'm going to say 2010.

That sounds about right. And I remember you came on you were super honest and I really liked talking to you and I was like that went great I love that guy and one of the things I remember and I appreciate it is that you had a quote that I used that you really liked and it was the one when I talked about traveling on the road in particular to Detroit and when I said the only thing that's open in Detroit after 2am is jails, hospitals

and legs and from then on everything just skyrocketed so the fab five comes out and i think pound for pound that was the most successful of all the documentaries i've ever been involved with from the sheer standpoint of eyeballs they have shown that thing so many times yes they have we when we did 30 for 30 and we were creating it and innovating it the whole thing we never imagined people would re-watch them like they did we knew they would work never thought like the seventh showing would get a rating your thing they've shown for seven eight straight years and it's like if a playoff series ends early and they have two hours to fill on espn they're just like

we'll just throw the fab five in there and they'll run it again. And how about this for, you know how this works when you're trying to shatter so many glass ceilings and do so many things in this industry. Just think about this for a second.

I have an entertainment company, Three Tier, that you believed in, Connor Schell believed in, allowed me the opportunity to actually produce that documentary. It was the first time that the company

worked with Aaron Cohen. Yeah, who's done a million of these now. Jason Ayer. Who I just did Andre the Giant with, who's absolutely incredibly talented. DJ Premier. Yep. These are all people that I brought in

to work with the project. And I've seen them go and participate in 50 other projects. And I never got a chance to produce a second documentary. Well, and the funny thing is, remember, we wanted to do Tommy Hearns for like a year. Correct. We had Tommy Hearns. That was going to be my second opportunity to do a documentary. This is like 2013.

Yes, indeed. And tell them who's going to direct it. Correct. Small world indeed. And tell them who's going to direct it. Correct. Small world theory. Ezra. Ezra Edelman, who went on to now work with ESPN, produced the OJ documentary that's been highly acclaimed. So Ezra. How about that?

Ezra's going to be the Tommy Hearns director. Yes. And it falls through for a couple reasons that we don't need to mention. Nothing to do with Ezra. More with Tommy and the people around him. Correct reasons that we don't need to mention nothing to do with ezra more with with tommy and the people around him correct and we can't get it done yep just not being we should by the way we should mention that was like one of my top 10 dream documentaries because i just felt like tommy hearns was like he's he's in all these different sports movies basically but he's the other team that loses in the end yes and he's just passing in all these different sports movies, basically, but he's the other team that loses in the end. Yes.

And he's just passing through all these apexes of these other guys, plus the Detroit thing. It was like the perfect one for you to do. And Emmanuel was still living at the time, and he was going to be- Yeah, and once he died, it became tougher. Yes, indeed. So we were going to have Ezra do that. How about that? And that would have been off the hook.

So it falls through, and it's like, oh, hey, can you write a treatment for OJ? And then he wins an Oscar. I feel like you're responsible. How about this? He should thank you. He does. I remember being on the phone with him while he was still with HBO right after he did the Bird and Magic documentary. Which was excellent.

And I was a fan of that just like everybody else was and so that's what made me want to work with him yeah and it's a good what if no question but yeah you should have done a second one I think that would have been the perfect one it's too bad but so 2011 we formed Grantland I'm in this little weird la live office and you come in and i forget you reached out to me or something but you want to do a podcast i saw you at the espies party maybe that's how it started you saw me so both of our versions are right we saw each other the espies but there there were drinks it was the 2011 espies well i actually stalked you in a good way i don't remember this part i know you don't because you were being stalked that's what happens of course you don't remember my trans harold didn't know that the girl was posting pictures of her trip to come

be an import it just happened that way you were a bug on the windshield i needed to make this happen and so i was on the rooftop and everybody was champagning and campaigning. And I love. Oh, is that at the W? Yes. Okay. And I love the fact that you were creating Grantland, a subsidiary for ESPN. Yeah.

And in doing some research, initially getting hired by ESPN, like my first four or five years, I was frustrated because I was only being used as a basketball analyst. You were a college guy. And for just, we don't have to go through a little background, but the thing I loved about you as an NBA player was well before your career's over and you're making like 18 million a year or whatever you're making, you knew you wanted to do media and you're doing everything. You're doing best damn sports show and all these different hits, just getting reps.

Working with TNT. Right. Which by the way, nobody does anymore. People, they retire and they go, all right, put me on your biggest show. And it's a mistake. Like, you got seven years of reps before you even had a high spotlight. This was my, what, 15th or 16th straight year covering the finals for television. Right.

I started doing it for bt mad sports when it was lakers and new jersey nets how is that not on youtube some of the bad sports should be on youtube i remember doing todd sideline for tnt when coach collins was calling the game yeah when my guy nick van exel threw the towel at me oh Oh. And so I was doing all of that level of media. And you had hit a point where you were like, all right, I'm ready to make a jump. And then it's 2007, I signed with ESPN. And at the time, I was basically being used

to do NBA Tonight and or Coast to Coast. And those are primary basketball shows. That was the only subject I got to express myself about really i wasn't being used for the magazine i wasn't being used in any other way and so when i saw that you were creating grantland i was like that's a possible outlet would you how would you compare it compare and contrast to you recruiting chris weber to be in the fab Five. Yeah, so I approached you about it. Did Chris Webber sign with Michigan before you or after you? I signed last.

That's why I wore number five. So you didn't recruit him. But I thought you guys all rigged that. I think you rigged it and then you kept your options open until the very end. No, a couple of things happened. First off, I'm the guy. I'm not signing to everybody else signing.

Right. Smart. That's just how it's going down. By the way, Paul George, take notes. My word is bond. And so initially at the McDonald's game, we were all trying to figure out a way to play with one another, and we rigged it so we could share rooms connected via bathroom.

And so we were up at the McDonald's game talking about it. But the springboard really happened for Chris and I in eighth, ninth grade when we were at Ed Martin's house talking about, yes, we didn't go to high school together, but we're going to find a way to go to college together. And you said to him, I don't care that you're going to country day i'm still going to be friends with you yeah pretty much none of my friends think you're cool because you're a country day you have no street cred at all but i can help you i'll give you street cred you can hang out with me and so in introducing them to ed

martin um that propelled that relationship too and so so our ed martin was basically john skipper i guess correct well said yeah well said i'll just leave that hanging and so so 2011 you come you want to get involved with grantland and you're seeing this whole path you basically don't want to be the college basketball guy or just nba i don't want to be the basketball guy yeah i don't want to be the basketball guy because after working at so many networks i got a chance to see that i i had a wealth of knowledge beyond just how i was being used right so i remember you came in my office i have a pretty good shit detector with this stuff and i came away from it thinking like i think he actually wants to do all this.

Cause you were like, I want to have a podcast. I loved it. Cause you, I remember you said to me when I went on your podcast, I got a lot of feedback for it. So I know people listen to those and I want to do other stuff. And I don't know what I have stories.

I remember you were like, I have these stories that are, I don't know what they are. And then we developed the story time thing in the thing about how you stole Patrick Ewing's TV. And a couple of those, we animated some of those. Yes, indeed. You started the podcast with Jacob's. And we started working together.

So this is all groundbreaking stuff for people that get a chance to enjoy how your career has transpired and mine also. This is before there were so many outlets to express yourself, and social media clearly wasn't being what it is now. So for us to put on YouTube clips and to do podcasts and to give our draft interviews that we were doing. Well, that came a little later. The biggest thing that happened to us was the next summer. We got to know each other a little bit.

And I loved working with you. That's mutual. And 2012, they had been trying to talk me into doing Countdown. So they finally talked me into doing it. And it's going to be me and Stan Van Gundy joining the show. Do you remember this? I do. Stan Van Gundy and I have a phone call about it. We're excited. This would be great to work together. Then Stern squashes Van Gundy. He just squashes it. So now they don't have a fourth

person. And now I'm panicking and I'm like, why can't we get Jalen? And they're saying, well, he's on the college show. And I'm like, so what? This is the NBA. This is a much bigger show. And it went back and forth and back and forth. And I remember even like 10 days before we were on, we actually, the NBA season started, you weren't on the show yet. And they were trying to figure out all this. Oh, okay.

And then it worked out. And then we spent two magical years together. Absolutely. And what was happening during that period before I got added to Countdown, which, by the way, you should have been the first person they asked. But here's what was taking place. I was also doing other shows. Right.

So I was doing Numbers Never Lie. It was Monday through Friday. It was in Bristol, Connecticut. I was doing College Game Day. You were doing everything to get saturday sunday right and so i was already on what was considered to anchor um programs so it was almost like is he going to be able to do all three at the same time because that's what i did the first year well so and that's a good lesson because I think almost every time now athletes just get thrown into the big job right away.

You were so desperate to prove yourself. You were going to Bristol. You're on random ESPN2 shows. You're doing NBA coast to coast at 11 at night. Two in the morning. You're doing college basketball weekends. You're doing everything to get, to make a name for yourself yourself which is weird because you were pretty famous at the time and also this was a period of time where i recognized that i was the only person at the company working monday through sunday right i was doing numbers never lie monday

through friday i was doing game day friday saturday i was doing nba saturday sunday and we were still doing the podcast right so that's why that was one of the many reasons I liked you because you actually gave a shit and you were retired so we start doing Countdown yes indeed

and we're on this little rinky dink set and they're building the new set yeah the desk was really small desk was small we could barely remember they

we could see the sides of everybody's legs were crammed in there and we're doing it with Magic Johnson who Hall of Fame mogul your idol yes indeed of everybody's legs were crammed in there and we're doing it with magic johnson who um hall of fame mogul your idol yes indeed um somebody that uh was my nemesis on the celtics but was one of my favorite basketball players of all time and we're trying not to be fanboys around him

and juggle that whole like how do we go back and forth with him on tv when it's freaking magic johnson and we won him over about two months in yes indeed and then the conversation started to get really good that year in the little office absolutely um and the great Michael Wilbon too it went from being the best no question love working with you guys it was awesome do you remember that time we did the Detroit versus Chicago? Oh, we did. Absolutely. The player rankings.

With Wilbon. Yes, indeed. About the pickup game. Yes, indeed. And Magic was the most animated I've ever seen him about. He's passionate about Michigan. And we were trying to come up with the best pickup team. And he went on record and he said,

the Iceman George Girvin was the greatest pickup basketball player of all time. And we're like, what do you mean? Compared to Jordan? He's like, the best. He scored every time. Nobody guarded Ice Girvin. He's my first pick. And it was a lot of shit like that just every Sunday.

The thing is, for me, to get a chance to work with all of you guys who are so excellent and respected at your jobs i'm trying to continue to earn my respect in the business and also since i have been doing it so long i was fortunate enough to already have earned the respect of like my peers and yeah and executives and stuff like that so i appreciated how it went from being like a boardroom to a locker room so it was it probably happened around december january february but then we started trying to figure out what else we could do yep and that's when we came up with the job interview job interview which is the only year they ever did it because the the guys started showing up stopped showing up the next year they ever did it because the guys stopped showing up

the next year but we did this job interview during that crazy draft that turned out to be Giannis was the big prize we didn't even interview him but we interviewed all these guys and all of our assessments coming out of that thing were kind of held up like CJ McCollum for example

and Oladipo, those were our two favorites remember that? and we were putting them on the spot and asked them different questions and we did that, then we were on the road the whole time and it was great i i mean we we became pretty close over that time and also another groundbreaking thing that was happening were a couple of things how that show didn't have what was considered a traditional host and now you look back at it that was genius like not that a host can't be valuable or really good at their job i think of course i think a good host matters but there's

not a ton of good hosts and and also to the bottom line though we still were able to get our content in it's a it's a short show right we were like it was 30 minutes 22 minutes it was it was fast anyway so it gave us a chance to still get in and out of stuff and also this is when multimedia and you were the catalyst for this started to look different i'll never forget the way the grantland studio once looked the electrical closet yeah it was your basement it was your your garage. All at LA Live. And then all of a sudden, I remember when you walked in there one day and I put up my pictures. You weren't happy. I wish we had discussed it. Some of them were good, though.

I like some of them. And now, as you look through the landscape of the business,'s what people are really as i say mr me too and or copying yeah they're putting immortals and their family members and stuff like that on the walls which may not seem like much of a thing right now because a lot of people are doing it but it's a personalization no question like other shows were using like bobble heads or helmets or things like that so well the other thing we did that was actually ahead of its time because they didn't have the technology we did that march madness live stream from my house yes but we didn't have the the technology yet and we had jacoby had to

rent this remember that giant antenna yeah and the guy cracked my basketball court they wheeled in this thing and it was just so we had to spend like I don't even know how many thousand bucks on it. And now we would just do it with like phones. But we were like, this would be great. We'll have our own studio show that will come on and pop in these different spots of Thursday, Friday. And it was good. That's when you remember jumped on the couch. Yes, indeed.

We did all that stuff. And that's fun. We were just taking chances. Correct. But also that created a unique outlet for two separate things that weren't happening. First off, people can tell if, as a public figure, you are publicly who you are privately. They see through it really fast. So we became the homeboys to all of the sports fans because they knew we were genuine, number one.

Number two, we were given information. And number three, you could tell we weren't being muzzled. You allowed us to say whatever we want. That wasn't really taking place. We should mention that within two years, I was gone from the company. Right. And so, like, you know how it is.

Like, Colin Kaepernick was the guy that took a knee. Thank you. I'm getting compared to Kaepernick was the guy that took a knee. Thank you. I'm getting compared to Kaepernick. A lot of other guys have taken knees. But unfortunately for him, it cost him his job. It cost him his opportunities in the NFL to spearhead a movement. And that's truly what you were personally doing. A ridiculous comparison, but I love it. Yes, but in theory, that's what you were personally doing.

We're trying to push the envelope. doing ridiculous comparison but i love it yes but in theory that's what you were personally doing and that's what happened to allow us to be a podcast a radio show a 2 a.m television show now a two in the afternoon television show i was carrying a bat i can imagine how many emails you were getting like why is this brother carrying a bat you mean from people who worked at ESPN who had positions of power? Yes. Hey, we're getting some notes about Jalen's bat. What does pop the trunk mean?

The most fun thing I think we did was when we did the, the first year we did the Bill and Jalen NBA preview. And we taped it for- Original content. We taped,

we did a six hour taping and neither of us went to the bathroom. And it became a standoff. Let me rewind the tape. Tell them what we did again. We did six straight hours of ripping through the teams.

They're actually on YouTube now. But I think we did 15 teams. Yes. And we did not get out of the chair and go to the bathroom. Didn't move. So that was a passion for what we was doing you know what part of the sport and love working with each other we were so frustrated by countdown and how short the segments were in these little we had four people and four minute segments and basically it's a dream to be on a show like that and you don't

have any time to say anything and that can't and all of a sudden that's why we to be on a show like that and you don't have any time to say anything. And all of a sudden, that's why we were going on YouTube and doing the stuff we wanted to do. Absolutely. I sense that with you still now. I mean, those segments are like, boom, hey, boom. Get your one point and you're out. No question. And for somebody that's a basketball historian like yourself and wrote the book on basketball, somebody like me that live and breathe a sport, we like to go deeper in the box score and sometimes just when you're a national network you got to play the

hits you're gonna talk about a handful of teams maybe five or ten players that just kind of how it plays out we allow people to come behind the curtain because we was covering everything the i think we did that heading into the 13-14 season. Yes, indeed. One of the segments, I think, was, is this LeBron's last year in Miami? Yes. But it was like, some of the stuff we hit in there, I think, was pretty good. Hey, want to talk about mattresses? Let's do it.

You want to look at your phone while I do this? Sure. Yeah, I know you want to. I know you have text. Let's talk about Casper, the sleep brand that continues to revolutionize its line of products to create an exceptionally comfortable sleep experience one night at a time. Are you happy with the mattress, Jalen? I am happy with my mattress.

Okay, good. I'm glad. Three mattress models. I could get a free one if they want to send me another one. The original Casper, the Wave, and the Essential Casper mattresses are perfectly designed to soothe and cradle your natural geometry, not to mention the breathable design helps you sleep cool and regulates your body temperature throughout the night it's delivered right to your door in a small how do they do that size box how about that deliver it to your door free shipping returns in the u.s and

canada a 100 night risk-free sleep on a trial i've seen you sleep in any situation. You don't need a mattress. I've seen... We flew on planes when we hadn't even taken off yet and you fell asleep and then the plane landed and you'd wake up. It was like you were a robot. I've never seen anything like that.

It was like your NBA player DNA. Correct. Get on the plane, out. Plane lands, up. And this is, I played in the league at a time where we didn't have the level of technology to be able to really just watch

footage right after the game. Right, so sleeping was actually good. No question. So Casper mailed me a mattress two years ago. I've been using it ever since. I started sleeping it better. It made me feel stupid. I didn't care about my mattress sooner. Now you can get a $50 store at any mattress purchase by visiting casper.com slash BS. Use offer code BS.

Terms and conditions apply. So we did those videos, the Bill and Jalen preview. And we had some drama in the second season. It wasn't that much fun. We had more fun doing our other stuff. In general, a relatively frustrating show to do it seems like it's a little more fun now it seems like the way they've set it up that they'll do more one hour shows with you now that was one of my big gripes when i was on it like we need an hour like especially like this week and we're going to talk about some of the

stuff going on there's 15 storylines this week. How do you do that in 22 minutes? Your gripes, again, are things that we're now doing. You wanted to always be a part of the post-game coverage. Yeah. Remember that? And you wanted the show to be an hour. Yeah.

They would throw it to SportsCenter. They would fly us to the city. But, I mean, it's all stuff that got fixed. It did. We were able to lead the games at halftime some at some point yeah we weren't using the post game flew us to go to the game for but uh you say so this year Pierce got added yes indeed so now you have Chauncey was added last year yes indeed and as you know um the other person that got added, Michelle Beadle, was somebody else that you and I would hope that we'd have a chance in one way, shape, or form to work with.

We worked with her at the ESPYs. We worked with her at the ESPYs. And so I now have come full circle and not only work with her on Countdown, but eventually going to work with her April 2nd when Get Up starts with Mike Greenberg. Yeah, we should mention you have three shows. Yes. You're on TV three different ways. Are you worried that that's too many? Not at all.

So one of them is a morning show for three hours. Are you going to be on that every day? Yes, indeed. Monday through Friday. Three hours. But here's the trick, Bill. In the morning. But here's the trick.

You're not a morning person. I am. I'm only a morning person. No, stop it. Bill, I've matured. What are you talking about? I'm in bed at eight or nine o'clock now. Who are you?

I have a better half and everything. I know. You did fall in love since we stopped working together. And so I remember times where I would do an NBA tonight till two in the morning and then hosting Mike and Mike at 6. And so for me to be up in the morning and have an anchor Monday through Friday, that's something

I really, this is only the second time in 10 years I had that. I had it with Numbers Never Lie for like a year and a half and now I'm going to have it with Get Up. So in theory, I've been doing a lot of different things, but I never had to be one place at one time to do a show because countdown as you know is only a couple days a week and it's seasonal

the podcast or the radio show i was able to do from anywhere so did they name the show get up so every show is going to start with you screaming get up at the camera no hopefully we'll have something a big thing of coffee like james brown get up uh get on up or probably outcast you need to get up get out and get something this is some really good songs out there that i don't know i promise you that espn isn't playing outcast at seven in the morning let's lock that down now they went diamond they're a popular group one of the best things that happened with us was the two years that we traveled to do the finals and the conference finals the miami heat were good at basketball yes indeed and three of the four series that we did on the

road passed through the wonderful city of miami yes indeed your second home yes indeed actually what is your second home you You have so many homes. Second home. Detroit's your first home. Detroit's first home will always be anchored there. Grandmother just turned 100. Mother 76. No question about it. Has her motor skills.

She's doing terrific. How did she get to 100? She takes care of herself. No cigarettes, no alcohol? Well, she likes her own wine spritzers. Wine spritzers, so that's the key. Yes, indeed. Wine spritzers and hot yoga?

Yes, indeed. She doesn't do any yoga. And so, and JRLA, obviously, is the tuition-free public charter high school that I founded is in Detroit. Do 30 seconds on JRLA. Yes, so that was founded is in Detroit. Do 30 seconds on JRLA. Yes so that was also founded in 2011 and initially I was helping kids via scholarship through the Jalen Rose Charitable Fund and we influenced around 40 kids to go to college and I also have a scholarship at

the University of Michigan. So at this time when the country had an economic downturn and I remember John McCain saying this and it kind of stuck with me when he was running for the presidency initially, because he decided that he wasn't going to campaign in my hometown. And he was like, when the rest of the world gets sick, Detroit gets the flu. And that always stuck with me. And so while the country was in chaos, know detroit was in despair we were closing schools we were opening jails so i really just felt like being a founder of a charter high school was just a graduation of the mission of the kids i was already helping and what makes it unique is we're not only focused on graduating from high school but tracking the young people and helping

them get graduate from college also. How many kids now? It's a 9 through 16 model. So we have 415 approximately in the building. We have about 315 alumni. And so this time next year, we'll have the full 9 through 16 model in play. Is there a big statue of you outside this place? Not at all.

Big mural? No. I didn't want to name the school after me I was like it's basically not it's jrla right correct yeah I was like maybe not the Martin Luther King or somebody that's really like noble or successful but they were like if you you you own it and so it's been a terrific undertaking but LA probably until April has always been considered my second home once i started getting money i came to la and then now 1994 now you're ditching la and me

i would never ditch you but you're somewhat distant la there's you could probably google a picture of me and nas at the century club in 1995 right Right. I was Detroit and L.A. from then on for 20 years. You almost died in L.A. Been through a lot out here. You got shot at. What street was that? No question. I was at Sunset and Barrington.

You still don't know who did it. Yeah, you literally almost got assassinated. Yes, indeed. Lisa Leslie. Yes, indeed. Right? Absolutely. And so L.A. is definitely my second home,

but my kids, my family, they live in Atlanta. My oldest is a senior. She wants to go to college in California. And my youngest is doing great also. So that's really my triangle. Yeah, I remember when your oldest was, I think, 12 when we were on Countdown. And I was so enamored with my little six-year-old girl at that time, or seven, or however old she was.

Absolutely, playing soccer. And you were like, just wait. Just wait till they turn 12. You're not gonna be cool, so... Yeah, just wait. Just wait.

A lot of eye rolls and head shakes coming your way. She don't run to the door and hug you when you walk in anymore, does she? No, unless she needs money.

A lot of eye rolls these days. Hey, that dress is a little short, is it? Dad! Yes. A lot of that. Don't sing, don't question, don't do anything.

Just have cash. Just have money. Ready to roll. So we haven't done anything in three years. How about that? Can you believe that? No.

The last time we did something, the Grantland Basketball Hour, which I still stand by as being a fucking awesome show. You ready for this? And it's online. That's another thing that was a trailblazing situation. We had a basketball show that was not Countdown. A thoughtful show with weird people on it, like Steven Jackson. What does that sound like?

Which now happens. Every day. And Rachel Nichols does a really good job with the jump right we had to fight to get that show but we did a show on May 7th 2015 that was actually a really good show and we I think we had a Taurasi on my best indeed and she was awesome in the show prior we had Kobe Bryant on yeah so Taurasi's on great show and then the next day I'm out yes yeah and that was it we haven't done She was awesome. In the show prior, we had Kobe Bryant on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Taurasi's on. Great show. And then the next day, I'm out.

Yes. Yeah. And that was it. We haven't done anything since. How about that? We've done stuff privately. We've done private podcasts. There's been a lot of texting.

There's been some beverages. Yes, indeed. Always. But nothing major. Nothing on what? So it's going to be back. I want to talk basketball. Okay, cool.

I miss doing this with you, by the way. That's mutual. We're going to do this more often. The all-star draft. There's no reason we shouldn't do one. Assimilate the teams eventually. Well, I thought we should do that, actually. If you're not going to televise it, why even do it?

They will. It's almost, to me me like legalizing marijuana or making sure that you have internet service everywhere you go. Have you ever been walking down the street trying to get online or use your phone? Like, why I don't have service? What is going on here? That's every day. They haven't found a way to monopolize it yet. Once they're able to say, okay, everybody bid for it to be on television.

Everybody lined up and paid to be sponsors. It's going to be a different version of what we saw LeBron James do when he did his announcement. They're going to eventually televise it. It just happened so fast, and it was such a great idea. They can't spring it all on us at once. It's like when you buy an iPhone. Before you know it, it's not working.

They're slowing down the memory. The charger don't work. The earbuds, you lose them. It's like when you buy an iPhone before you know it, it's not working. They're slowing down the memory. The charger don't work. The earbuds, you lose them. It's the exact same thing. They're going to do it, but they're not doing it this year. If they televised, it would have been fun to watch Damien Lillard's reaction when he goes last. I feel cheated.

I feel cheated. Who would go last? A Boston Celtic, Al Horford would go last. You're just saying that to hurt my feelings. It's true. He spaces the floor and provides defense. He does. He's a terrific team player. I am not taking away from his role.

You're right. The last four guys would probably be from the East. No question. Really what should happen is this. The talent pool shouldn't be East-West. It should be the best 24 players. Right. I don't understand why you're forcing 12 players from each conference.

That's the part I don't get. Because they didn't put enough thought into it. It should be the best 12. So if it's 18 players from the West and six players from the East, so what? Right. Let's go with the best 24. I'm with you. I'm throwing this idea at you.

I did it on Twitter like six months ago, and I'm becoming more and more convinced it's one of the best 24. I'm with you. I'm throwing this idea at you. I did it on Twitter like six months ago, and I'm becoming more and more convinced it's one of the best ideas I've had in a while. I think you pick 25 players. You split them up in fives, and it's king of the court. And you just go. And it's like you play to 21.

Team tries to stay on. You play for basically three straight hours. That sounds like work. Whatever the last two, that's the finals and it's like five million bucks. The five guys split it a million a piece.

Here's the thing about today's NBA. They're too rich. Nicholas Batum is making $120 million. It's unbelievable. And so when that happens, five million dollars.

Andrew Wiggins is making $150. They like, oh, I'd rather have the weekend off. Yeah, there's no way to do that three hours five on five five teams man that's all that's dressed in overalls that's a lot of work so we can't basically fix the all-star game in any way no there's no fixing it what is fun about this mixing the teams just having teammates playing against each other potentially well it's it's almost each other, potentially? Well, it's almost... That's the only thing I can think of.

It's almost like when you grew up rooting for the Celtics and y'all only had a home jersey and an away jersey. And it was like, that's going to be tradition. And then they realized that they could make more money selling more jerseys. And before you know it, it's all types of jerseys. Black ones, black and green ones. The Celtics even have cheerleaders now. Red wouldn't cheerleaders no they waited till he died i know he died and

then they brought out the cheerleaders next year because and i think they mentioned that they were doing it and they might have killed them they might have killed red with that i don't know what the chronology is but yeah they all these units there's like 10 uniforms for each team now so so that's why you mix up the teams it gives the illusion that you get a chance to see people that would never play with one another play together. But that's what you get in any way because it's an all-star game. It's not going to work. It's just not.

It would have worked if we saw the draft. I also, you could talk me into 20 all-stars instead of 24. Let's really make it exclusive. There's always four that we're not sure about anyway. So just who are the best 20 guys? Let's go. 10 guys on each team. So there are a few things that I think Adam,

who I feel like is doing an amazing job as commissioner, and you just see the trajectory of the sport unlike the NFL where players come out and disrespect their commissioner. He's made a lot of really awesome changes to the game, like cutting down the timeouts and speeding up the pace and all types of stuff. Another thing that I would like to see him do, Bill, is have the playoffs be 1 through 16 seeding.

Ooh. We talked about that like four or five years ago. No question about it. I don't understand why with the ability to travel on private planes and the way nutrition is now and the way that you're tracking players minutes and all of these great things that allow players to play a lot longer you should now have the best 16 teams physically playing against one another like the ncaa tournament and to me that's the true champion.

Well, what about the tweak on that idea of you have 14 seeds, the other 16 play for the last two seeds, and they're 15 and 16. Then you open it up. Nah. You don't like that? You don't want the garbage teams trying to play the 16? No playing games. No JVs.

Nothing? And so here's what you do, though. Imagine here's a perfect example this season yeah the nba finals should be the gold state warriors and houston rockets right those are the two best teams in the league right but they're going to face each other in the conference finals and we may get a team that this usually happens out of the east i in toronto is they're winning 70% of their games. If I had to pick a team today to who's look, who's looking the best in the East, I would

say Toronto. They're the safest bet. Right. I'll tell you who's not a safe bet is the Cavaliers of Cleveland. Correct. Hey, I don't want to go any further without playing a little game called Jalen knows stuff, which we used to play back in the day. Okay, cool.

Dan Gilbert is, it came out, Stephen A. Smith said Dan Gilbert wants to sell the Cavs. You and I have always believed he wanted to own the Pistons since he owns half of the downtown Detroit anyway, and that it would always make sense for him to flip franchises with Tom Gores, or he sells the Cavs, buys the Pistons, and then they put the Cavs up for sale.

However this plays out, Jalen knows stuff. What do you know? And uniquely positioned in this scenario being what I consider friends with Tom Gores, also Dan Gilbert, who graciously both support JRLA. Right. And so... Is that your way of saying you're not going to answer this oh i'm definitely going to answer okay while uniquely placed they're around in professional sports i think people underestimate the fact that they're

in basketball and football in particular a lot of owners that are from michigan yes um in orlando with the clippers with the dolphins and obviously the couple of gentlemen you just talked about so being from michigan in an ideal world because that's where his business now is quicken loans and he moved 3 000 plus employees from ohio he's all in on Detroit. No question. He's pushed all his chips into the Detroit table. In an ideal world, of course, he would probably prefer to own a team where he's pushed all his chips in the middle of the table.

But the Pistons already have a terrific owner who just moved a team from Auburn Hills finally back to Detroit for the first time in 30 years. Maybe he wants to get out. And so maybe Dan Gilbert says, here's my price for your team. And then I'll figure out what to do with my team. As I see both of those individuals who I,

again, admire and know, I think they both enjoy being franchise owners and leaders. So as it seems like that may be a quality transition to take place, I personally don't suggest it. You don't think Gores gives up the Pistons? I don't think it happens soon. Okay.

And if it does happen, it probably won't be the Dan Gilbert. So Gilbert is getting out because LeBron is leaving would be the other takeaway here. Just looking at it from afar, knowing nothing. It seems suspicious i think that we underestimate the fact that when you own a franchise that's a legacy play for yourself and for your family for those thinking short-sighted like oh for three years he's gonna sell the team and get a top dollar because of lebron james. LeBron James is an all-time iconic player. But guess what the Gilbert family can do 100 years from now?

Still own the Cavs. So why would he sell? Correct. Okay. Unless he has a chance to own another team, the Detroit Pistons. Okay. Let's redraft the teams. Okay.

Do you want to be LeBron or Curry? It doesn't matter. You can have first. I can take first or whatever. But one of us has to be LeBron and one of us has to be Curry. We have to think like they would think. Oh, gotcha, gotcha. It's like the old thing.

To capture a serial killer, you have to think like a serial killer. Correct. To be an all-star captain, we have to think like an all-star captain. So allow me to be Curry because to me, here's what LeBron James should do. And it's just for killer instinct value, in my opinion. He shouldn't draft a Warrior or a Kyrie Irving. Okay. If I'm him, I wouldn't.

So why don't you be LeBron James? I don't want to be LeBron in this scenario because I did a draft already and I was him. So I think it'd be fun to do stuff this time. I didn't realize you did this before. This is like a secondhand gimmick? No, let's just do it. It'll be fun. Jesus. Who'd you do this with?

Jacoby? I did it on Countdown. We did it live. Oh. This'll be better. You probably had three and a half minutes. You had to race through your picks. All right, so you're Curry.

All right, let's get it. Who had the first pick between LeBron and Curry? LeBron had the first pick. Can you show me the rosters, please? LeBron had the first pick. You get the first pick, sir. I'm going to take off my coat and stay a while does kd fit in your whole thing about he he'd no warriors right you don't think he'll take a warrior he he better not take a warrior okay and he better not take kyrie irving oh i'm gonna be looking at him

sideways and here's the thing okay so he's one other thing too the disdain I see by the Houston Rockets towards the Clippers yeah you know what would be magical in the playoffs if they felt that way

towards the Warriors who they've beaten twice this year then we get in somewhere that should be the NBA Finals 1 through 16 I have him taking Harden

I now have the rosters in front of me you just scroll down. Okay, cool. So you get the first pick. You're LeBron. Do we go snake fashion? What?

You get one and I get two? And three? No. How are they doing it? They're just going back and forth? Yeah, let's just go back and forth. All right, I took James Harden. LeBron takes James Harden, another primary ball handler?

Yeah. I'm going to take... You know why? Because he wants to play in Houston next year. He's leaving that door open. Hey, James, oh man, this is so much fun. Put in a good word for me. I love James Harden.

I wish I could get a chance. I wish I wasn't retired from the strip club. Man, that guy's my idol. What that guy does on the court and off the court, it's legendary. I look up to James Harden. Well, he better be careful. All right. My first pick is Kevin Durant.

Okay. Great pick. So right now we have LeBron and Harden against Curry and Durant. I'm going to take Giannis. I love Giannis. And by the way, you're splitting hairs when you're talking about great players but I'm gonna do that right now I'm gonna take a guy who's just as tall who just as long can shoot better I almost took him and didn't get his coach fired this year Anthony Davis I that was almost my next pick wait a second Are you blaming Giannis for getting Jason Kidd fired?

No, not at all. Jason Kidd got Jason Kidd fired. I know. It ends badly for him wherever he goes. No shots at Giannis. The one thing, though, he was able to do, and you know it's really hard to develop a young guy and to be a top-flight player. Now that makes it an attractive job. So I'll give him half credit for he thought of the idea

to give Giannis the ball all the time. Giannis is a freak. I think you and I, if you and I were coaching the Bucs the last three years, I think Giannis still happens in his exact form. Anybody who can dunk from the freaking three-point line in two steps is going to be fine. All right, I have the next pick.

Yes, indeed. Wow, you took Davis, huh? This is tough because all of a sudden there's still a couple Warriors left. You only can pick starters right now. Oh, I can only pick the starters? Yeah, that's how they acknowledged it to be. That's another thing I don't like. I don't like that either.

We have to pick the ten starters before the eight other starters before we pick the reserves. I don't love my team now. All right, I got it. Oh, Westbrook's not starting. Correct. That's interesting. I'm going to keep a spot open for Westbrook. You have to pick the starters first.

And here's another thing I'm going to show you. So he can't take Kyrie either. And here's another thing.'m going to show you. So he can't take Kyrie either. So Steph Curry played this perfectly because he knows he's going to get Kyrie. Correct. And you know who else I know I'm going to get? Who? Westbrook. Well, what would...

All right, I got to take the Rosen. I hate my team. All right. My next pick will be, man, we got a squad. Let's go Kyrie. Kyrie. And then. I have an amazing squad.

And then I'm taking Embiid. Then I'll take Boogie! Unblock Bill. Unblock Bill. Unblock Bill. He'll never unblock me. And then I'll take boogie! Unblock Bill! Unblock Bill! Unblock Bill! He'll never unblock me. For those that don't know. How about this?

Forget about unblocking me. Just get back on defense. Let's put it out. For those that don't know, we used to always go deeper into the box score for young players and tell stories behind why they behave the way they behave or why they're underperforming. And he was one of our first guys. It's the ultimate betrayal.

We threw our body in front of it. Like, y'all, I know he's in Sacramento, but y'all cannot put this on him. We know he's a little crazy. Yeah. And you know what ended up happening? They traded him for Buddy Hill. Yeah, and the 10th pick.

And the owner felt like he was going to be the next Dev Curry. And the 10th pick that they then turned into the 15th and the 20th pick. Correct. Congratulations on that trade. Tate, did they take Harry Giles as one of those picks? Justin Jackson and Harry Giles. Ooh, the poo-poo platter. Can I have a spare with that?

All right, so LeBron, Harden, Giannis, DeRozan, and Embiid. Curry, Durant, Davis, Kyrie, Boogie. I like your team more. And now it's the reserves I get first pick. See, I think if I had to do it over again, I would try to have Giannis and Davis together in the first two picks. You know what I'm going to do? All right, you have the first pick now.

You know what I'm going to do? No, no, you do what you have to do. No. No, because it won't be fair if i take no do it take them all right give me russ westbrook oh man so you have westbrook curry and kairi and davis and i still can't take any warriors see you know what bothers me about this and this is a good reason why they didn't

televise the draft don't show the draft LeBron will take John Wall because of professional stuff not because John Wall deserves to go I'm not going to do that I'm going to take

it's crazy that we probably live in a world where lebron james won't be a member of the calves next year oladipo that's our guy from the job interview back in the day dude oh you know what i can i change that is jimmy butler is jimmy butler healthy or not you could take him is he healthy though yeah he'll be healthy i want jimmy butler he's a part of the team you could take i'm taking jimmy butler all right I had him Astros because he's hurt. So the big I have is Carl Anthony Towne. No, I'm sorry. No, you have Boogie. I have Boogie and Davis.

All might as well go to Kentucky Trio. You know what? No, I'm going to switch it up. Give me Porzingis. Wow. I need some big three-point shooting to go my height. I already have him beat. I didn't even know he was going to be a three-point shooter.

I'm going to switch it up. I'm going to switch it up. I'm going to switch it up. Give me Porzingis. Wow. I need some big three-point shooting to go up my height. I already have him beat. I didn't need him. Now, this is where Kevin Love's feelings are already starting to get hurt. Say, hey, man, I thought we had something. I'm doing it. I'm taking Draymond I was looking at him as well

I don't think LeBron should take any Warriors but I also think having Draymond going against his three teammates he'll play really hard it'll be great to have him on the team he'll take it personal he'll put a little extra in there you know what

I need some... No. I'm going to take... Did you take Oladipo? No, you can have him. Give me Oladipo. You're reuniting him with Westbrook, so cross him off for that game.

He's going to be having Vietnam stress flashbacks. Do I need another point card i do i love my team yeah your team's really your team's really somebody please simulate this somebody stop the fight and by the way you know back in the day when you had a barbershop argument you couldn't settle it we could settle this you could just add up their per and get a score that way and then somebody can simulate it on nba 2k and or nba live you can simulate this ea sports it's in the game simulate this i'm taking clay i'm gonna start some warriors tension having two warriors on my team look at my shooting by the way look at my shooting i got clay james harden yeah your shooting's pretty good too what do you got my next pick oh it's only what three four guys left i got defense i think i'm

winning you have four i'm gonna shut you down oh we have four guys five guys left yeah i am going to take another guy that's giving me 20 and 10. Yeah. Kevin Love. Oh, that's smart. He'll be inspired. You know, play against LeBron. Yeah.

Come run with us. I'm going for more shooting. I want Bradley Beal. Bradley Beal! That's a good choice. He came into his own. Hold on. Can we interrupt this for Jalen Nose stuff? Sure. Bradley Beal that's a good choice he came into his own hold on can we interrupt this

for Jalen Nose stuff sure how many words a day do you think Bradley Beal and John Wall say to each other that's not on a basketball court

they're 100 now in the past low percentage but not they're 100 now yeah we know for a fact yeah they're good now

are we sure yes they're good now we're positive yeah they're good okay they're good you have the next pick and they're good now. We know for a fact? Yeah, they're good now. Are we sure? Yes, they're good now. We're positive? Yeah, they're good. Okay. They're good. You have the next pick. And they're balling, too.

Hustle and flow, as I affectionately call them. They're balling? What are you talking about? They're total dysfunction in the Wizards. It's because of their front court. So you need to make a trade. When was the last time you seen Martin Gortop play? I think, is he free agent

this year or next year? It's not a good free agent run. My point exactly. All right, you're up. My next pick, oh, this is an easy one.

Yeah. And I value winning. Yeah. Give me the Marcus Aldridge. You know, I got the three point shoot and I got the mid range. He third in the West

without Kawhi. I didn't, I didn't want to deal with him getting upset that we weren't posting him up. I got Kyle Lowry. I got a bunch of dogs on my team now. I got a whole dog lineup to throw at you. And so the final

pick in this draft, I'm surprised. We got a couple more picks left. We do? Yeah. Horford's left. John Wall's left. Lillard's left. Towns is left. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, this is easy. Give me Carl Anthony Towns.

Yeah, I figured. He's another great chemistry guy for you. Yeah, I got all the Kentucky guys. I'm going to take I need Coach Cal to come coach this squad. Lillard, Towns, Wall, and... Wait, is there somebody missing? Clay. Oh, Al Horford.

Defense, chemistry, floor spacing. That's hilarious. You get one more. I have a couple of shorter. I told you Damien Lillard was going to go last. There's two guys left. It's Damien Lillard or John Wall. That's it.

That's because you picked funny. I didn't pick funny. I'm trying to pick a team that's going to win a basketball game. I am going to have to go with. I have three smaller guards. Yeah. So I'm going to have to go with a bigger guard. Give me John Wall.

Oh, look at this. Last pick. Damien Lillard. I have three smaller guards. Yeah. So I'm going to have to go with a bigger guard. Give me John Wall. Oh, look at this. Last pick, Damian Lillard. This is why they need to televise the draft. All right. LeBron, Harden, Giannis, DeRozan, and Bede, my starters. You have Curry, Durant, Davis, Kyrie, Boogie. My bench, Butler, Draymond, Clay, Beal, Lowry, Horford, Lillard. Your bench, Westbrook, Porzingis, Oladip Depot, Kevin Love, Aldridge, Towns, and John Wall, or as I like to

call them, we can't get stops. You have no defense. Old Depot is your only good defensive player on your bench. I have a squad. Anthony Davis can play D. My team's going to put up points on you. Alright, I'm going to take a photo of this and put it on Instagram. KD plays D.

You guys can vote. Please do. At me, Jalen versus everybody. I'm going to post that picture of us from the Staples Center. It's going to be my second post. It's a great one. I would love to post that today. You can look at your phone again.

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Yeah. So therefore, you got to go to the big and tall store at that point. Okay. So then you're like 2X big, you know, something like that. Now I'm normal size for my body type. So you can go to a real store and buy a shirt?

I can go and get an XL. Really? Yeah, I can just go to any store that I choose and get the XL. Well, you can go to Proper Cloth. They guarantee a perfect fit, meaning that if somehow your shirt doesn't fit perfectly,

they remake it for free. Wow. Stop wearing shirts that don't fit. Look your best. Go to propercloth.com slash BS. Enter gift code BS to save $20 on your look your best go to propercloth.com slash bs enter gift code bs to save 20 in your first shirt again propercloth.com slash bs gift code bs tate is your mic on yeah that album cover reminded me of uh when we first saw kelly olenek can we say he's a member of the doobie brothers remember that the doobie brothers

are right behind you they're watching they're looking over you. Classy. Tate, whose roster did you like more? I think I liked Team Curry more. I think Team Curry. Four-point favorites? Yeah, like three and a half. Fourteen. We're going to be close. Fourteen.

But here's the problem. But you did the perfect LeBron where you didn't like your team as you went through it, but then you turned around. Then I changed my mind on it? Yeah, that's what LeBron does. Well, Team LeBron was at a disadvantage because he can't take Warriors and he can't take Kyrie. Like, if he's just trying to pick the best team, he absolutely takes Kyrie.

Durant's the first pick, and Kyrie's on that team, but he won't do that. Those are two guys he's never taking. And for competitive reasons, you like that, correct? I guess. See, I'm of the mindset you actually bring those guys in and befriend them like think about think about in the past who's done that right michael jordan i got the greatest example for you we both think mj's the goat yes indeed what did he do with charles

barkley became homies took him gambling yes indeedept him out at 7 o'clock every night. Came his buddy. And then in the 93 finals, he kicked his ass. Well, you know this very well. LeBron's been doing that for a decade. Yeah. Just think about it like this. LeBron James has shattered all glass ceilings for athletes because we've seen like Magic Johnson become a mogul after his career. LeBron is doing it while he's playing.

Shaq comes to mind as somebody that was doing that as well. Jordan with the shoes. Think about this for a second. There are players that he plays with and or against that he indirectly represents in a lot of ways. Is indirectly the word we're going to use here? Well, I have to give Rich Paul a lot of ways. Is indirectly the word we're going to use here? Well, I have to give Rich Paul a lot of credit because if he's not good at his job, regardless of who LeBron is,

people wouldn't want to sign with him. That's almost like saying players want to play for a large market. Oh, go to L.A., go to New York, you're going to get the endorsements. But really, that's just talk. So he's earned the right to represent the players that he has, and it just so happens now. Oh, it just so happens. That he and LeBron clearly are best friends.

Oh, they are? Childhood friends. I had no idea. Absolutely. Wow. And so think about this. So Rich Paul's doing this all by himself. And how about this?

Through LeBron's relationships and his endorsements lebron's relationships no question he now has skills academies for high school students oh you just changed the subject i was so excited to talk about this rich paul thing no this is the story the nba wants nobody to talk about and we are in this world now of of access is everything in the nba these puff piece pieces these puff piece interviews. LeBron owns an agency. He doesn't really own it, but he does. And if you saw that Cam Reddish picture from last summer, you know who Cam Reddish is. I do.

What's he, number two? Tate, is he number two? Number two. RJ Barrett's number one. Coming out of a restaurant, Rich Paul, LeBron James, and Cam Reddish last year. So for people to think LeBron's not involved with this agency in some way he is whether it's like a halo a godfather whatever and it seems really inappropriate because like they represent tristan thompson who is totally and completely overpaid i don't i don't see how this isn't a salary cap violation i like tristan thompson do you think

you should make 20 million dollars a year 18 whatever he makes well we only talk about this about basketball players you know yeah but if because we have a salary cap

so that's what makes it relevant you need the guys you're paying top dollar to ball and he's not playing like a

person that deserves that salary if you're trying to be competitive and you're trying to

compete for the title and you're paying Tristan Thompson 18 million dollars a year for the next

four years and you literally can't trade him because the contract is so bad, and you can't fix your team. But he has that contract because LeBron negotiated it with Rich Paul, even though LeBron didn't, but he kind of did. That is weird.

We've never been in this territory before. Yes, we have. With who? It happens with agents every day, Bill. I remember a time when I was in college and MC Hammer and Deion Sanders came to a game because they were representing players at that time. That's a good point. It just looks different because... How'd that go, by the way?

He's currently in the league. Yeah, he's the best player in the league. But this is what agents do when they see Bill Simmons 10th grade prospect. The first thing they do besides introducing themselves is so what kind of music you like? Oh, you like Drake? Oh, I'm about to get him on the phone right now.

What type of restaurants do your parents like to eat? Oh man, just tell your parents to go to the restaurant. What type of shoes do you like to wear? So this isn't exclusive to them and they're not inventing the will it's just what makes it unique is he's currently playing in the league i think unique is a very generous word to use but it's not illegal are we sure it's not illegal yes we are because does do we know for a fact that he does not own any stakes in the rich paul agency he does he get out of this he he he doesn't have to own any stakes in the relationship

with the agency his relationships are bigger they're with the players he's able to foster them at a really young age they're going to his skills academy in high school they're leaving with bags of his gear they're leaving with his wisdom they're going to his skills academy in high school they're leaving with bags of his gear they're leaving with his wisdom they're leaving with his advice john wall steph curry all of those guys played in his camp it's almost like a jalen on twitter trying to diss me and my mother made the name up right so he all that didn't happen i hope he are he already to your point, what you said Jordan was able to do in his own way, has been able to foster those relationships that way. So you think this is a benevolent power and influence play for him? And it just happened seamlessly for him.

Seamlessly? Yes, indeed. And also, look at it from this perspective. While in the league, though he's in an iconic future Hall of Fame player, he's been able to disable the other Hall of Fame players that were in his conference and make them teammates. Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, Carmelo Anthony. Those are either his homeboys or friends that are going into the Hall of Fame that you would have thought since they all played in the same conference

for over a decade that they would have actually been playoff rivals. That never took place. And then – He wasn't able to do that with Durant and those guys, though. Correct. And so you disabled those guys and you disarmed Paul George. They weren't able to get over the hump in Indiana. Derrick Rose, the team got old.

He got injured. Well, he almost got Paul George. Correct. And so LeBron, like Floyd Mayweather, especially in the East, he cleared the deck where he doesn't have any rivals. I think some of that was good luck. I think Chicago should have been a rival, right? If Derrick Rose doesn't hurt his knee,

they're there this whole decade, you know? You don't agree with me? And so the teams that weren't, no. I think Milwaukee should now be a contender if they were built in a smart way, and they're not. But now they have Giannis, who's a top six guy, but they have the wrong guys around them, and they're not a contender. That's good luck.

Yes, indeed. And so while being a young player, the Pistons, he got a chance to play against those squads. They got older. Your Celtics teams, they got older. So now you have this iconic top five all-time player in the eastern conference going to the finals almost every year think about how they are playing right now they still might make the finals i know yeah that's not happening lebron james has the lowest player efficiency

rating of any player in the nba the month of january of any player in the league really yes here's where i think he got lucky for, for whatever reason. I have no idea why this is. It might be pure luck. There's just more incompetent franchises in the East, right? Like Sacramento is one of the go-to incompetent franchises we have,

but the East has like five Sacramento's like Brooklyn traded all their first round picks and then decided they didn't want to pay their team you know i don't know how lebron gets credit for that charlotte um orlando orlando's been in the lottery for six years now and they still suck and then there were teams that were tanking like philadelphia philadelphia tanked for four straight years the knicks weren't able to get over the hump. The Knicks are completely incompetent. I really do think that it's just by law of averages,

for whatever reason, the East has more sucky teams because they've had more lottery picks. And the West right now, if you look at the West, Sacramento's a train wreck. The Clippers have train wreck potential but seem okay. It seems like they got through it. Phoenix is a train wreck, but at least has Devin Booker. Other than that, the West is okay.

They go through, everybody has somebody, and everybody's got something to hang on to. The East is not like that. And so for LeBron, now at this point of his career, the chess move that was done incorrectly was by the Cavs. You got Kyrie Irving, a la Shaq and Kobe,

under contract for two more years, and you got LeBron under contract one year. I know he doesn't want to be there, so guess what he wants to do? Collect millions of dollars to play basketball this year. And so you let them play this year out. I was on this podcast all summer,

and this was before I knew the Celtics had a chance at Kyrie. I just couldn't believe it. I was like, you can trade Kyrie? This is crazy. We all watch basketball. And people are writing these stories about, here's why Kyrie isn't a franchise player. It's like, what are you talking about?

We just watched three straight playoffs. Of LeBron James giving him the ball the last two minutes to close it out too. You know better than anybody. When we get to a certain point and there's like nine guys that matter.

And Kyrie's one of the nine. So I don't understand. First of all, they screw up because they shop him. Which I was talking about and you were talking about in June.

They're trying to trade him it came out later it came out in like december it's like we knew in january and july they're trying to trade him everybody knew he was in like a three team four team thing and then he found out and that was it they screwed it up and how about your celtics just danny ain't just fleecing teams around the league well that that one was just lucky. No, it's not luck when you trade two injured players. Right. They traded down so that Philly could get Fultz, got Tatum,

and Fultz is basically now being redshirted with a broken jump shot. What do you think is going on with that? I am hearing that what happened in his situation is initially he got drafted number one pick and a trainer of his not necessarily a team employee was adjusting and or working with his jump shot and now it became what you see now have you ever seen anything like this in all your years i have not i have you have not no bill he got pick number one i ain't about to change my jumper that's the only reason why i got he had a nice jumper yes he could shoot threes he could shoot free throws he's double clutching shooting bricks

right now the jumper that he has now if we were playing pickup you wouldn't want to throw him the ball he's like don't throw the ball that guy with a hitch in his jumper lonzo ball look at his shot and be like man that's ugly yeah at least lonzo it's ugly but at least it has it doesn't stop right like charles old golf swing i've never seen anything like this i actually think this is the weirdest nba story um just pure basketball that has nothing to do with drugs, alcohol, girls. Obviously, Gilbert Arenas and Javaris Crittenden, that was a crazy story. We've had a lot of crazy, the Artes Melee, some of the Jailblazers stuff. We've had seedy, crazy stories. This is just purely a guy who's the first pick in the draft

who now can't shoot a basketball, and he's 19. And I have no idea if he's going to play again and neither do you and i love ben simmons and joel and b like these are cornerstone perennial all-star on a path to be hall of famer i give the eye test and say these are franchise players both on the same roster and so while we're discussing the process they have fumbled a couple of them too. We just talked about it. Imagine if they'd taken Tatum or Mitchell.

How about Noel? Noel Okafor. Michael Carter Williams. They whiffed on three picks, basically. Noel was in a draft that you and I did that draft. We actually thought Noel went too late. I think he's had bad circumstances too, but when we did that draft,

and I've told this story before, and you can be the witness for it. The Giannis thing, we thought that was too soon. Remember that? We were in meetings with him, and it was like he went, I think, 15? Yes. But remember we were watching those videos,

and we were like, what the hell is this? Is that a real gym? Are we sure? Are those regulation ribs? Yes, indeed. What is that? He was stretching out. We couldn't believe he went he went 15 absolutely so the draft's a crapshoot basically it's ridiculous no doubt but then the second part of what got us into this Danny H he

trades for Kyrie Irving right we gotta go back to that Isaiah Thomas while he was injured with a hip and we've seen everyone's like no Isaiah's just got to come back it's like isaiah can't move a hip he can't jump and while both um were productive players for example last year isaiah and i have to give props and you're celtic diehard the things that we're saying about the celtics and kairi this year we were actually saying about them and isaiah last year right because the guy that is untouchable in that situation to me is brad stevens i agree when you're able to develop so many young players turn over the roster they turned over four starters this year like that that's just unheard like four basically four guys from last year are still on

this team no question i just the kairi thing i think has not gotten its proper due for why the hell did you do that there's been so many situations over the years where a team got to the precipice of trading somebody and just said you know what let's wait and you saw it with the spurs like marcus aldridge wanted to get traded last summer they wrote it out you know what lamarcus we're gonna wait what i don't understand about what the Cavs did, and I still have not heard a good explanation, is why not run into the season with it? Correct.

Why not? You got them on the contract? If your best offer is Isaiah Thomas coming off hip surgery and this Brooklyn pick and Jay Crowder who's overrated and that's the best you can do, just keep him and trade him in December or January. And if he feels awkward about it, sorry, you're making $20 million a year.

And that Cavs team coming full circle with LeBron probably will win the East. Or they trade Kyrie now and get a shitload for him. Correct. I just think the offer would have been better now. It would have been. I wouldn't have moved him. Like, again again we saw this

movie before i have shack i have kobe i'm going with the younger player well what about what about your pistons in 07 good example they almost got kobe yes indeed they had the trade for him what was it rip hamilton chauncey well when you're trying to get something else yes and a couple draft picks and then what did the lakers do like wait a minute let's slow down a little bit they were ready to do it and dr bus the greatest owner of all time he comes in and he's like hold on we're wait we're not actually gonna trade him right and he got on the phone with kobe and they talked it out and within two years they won the title boom and i think for the calves like not knowing what's gonna happen with lebron now i think i I am way more pessimistic about them than you are

because we've seen teams with the on-off switch. You and I have talked about it a million times. It's so much harder to do the on-off switch when you're just terrible at defense. It's not you can turn on the defense switch when you always have two to three terrible guys out there on defense. I don't know how you fix that. I'm rolling with you.

The way this team is playing, they won't win the East. They might lose in round one. Correct. It's not a foregone conclusion anymore that, oh, we have LeBron, so therefore they're going to win the East. I'm not one of those people saying that. And he also put a lot of miles on himself these first couple months. The other thing is they don't practice really.

It's like, oh, really? You're bad at defense? You have bad defensive players and you don't practice? What the hell did hell do you think was gonna happen think about what's happened for over half of the season other guys that they brought in to possibly be playmakers to take pressure off of him Isaiah Thomas, Derrick Rose, Dwayne Wade they haven't been able to do it and so now that creates another load for LeBron so he like ain't playing defense like man you better where's Crowder where's Green Dwayne Wadewayne wade's uh he's the starter on your on one of my favorite jaylen teams uh help hey get my guy hey get my

guy he's jogging back a lot of pointing zach lowe has this joke about how uh the the when there's not 10 guys on the screen you know teams in trouble when you're watching tv yes and there's not 10 guys on the screen, you know a team's in trouble when you're watching TV. Yes. And there's a lot of like, I only see eight guys on my TV screen. And then you see the last two Cavs. Logging back. Like Kareem in his last couple of years.

Let's do another episode of Jalen knows stuff. Let's get it. Your coach, Steve Fisher, who you almost won a national title with. Yes, indeed. Came very close. Second time, really close. really close as close as possible yeah one time the closest you could really come one time yeah got thumped first time you got thumped the first time but America was behind you yes indeed he also coached

Kawhi Leonard one of the best five or six players in the league five or six two or three well he hasn't played all year. I docked him two spots. Tough critic. We're hearing he might be unhappy. The body language doctor, I'm not going to put my scrubs on, but the body language doctor is not like the body language on the bench. Doesn't seem very happy.

It's weird that he hasn't come back. Woj, Woj Bomb, dropped the bomb about that he wasn't happy. Jalen knows stuff. What do you know? So a couple of things. First and foremost, I would hate to live in a world where Kawhi Leonard isn't playing basketball for the Spurs under Pop. I wish the narrative would be all of the players that continue to talk about their goal is to win championships and to have greatness.

You would think that we'd be lining up talking about great free agents to go run with the Spurs. Yeah. Not go run with a current lottery team. That's always been head-scratcher to me. So I want to put that out there first. We should mention that. We once spent eight days in San Antonio, and it was about four days too long yes and my ears are still

ringing that's why i say go spurn go and people wonder why i'll be saying because my ears still ringing they swept memphis that one of those years too well that second year they loved us because we were the only ones saying that we thought they had a chance to beat miami and they were remember how nice they were to us in the stands? They're not usually nice, but they were nice to us. So, anyhow, go ahead. And so a few things have taken place. You know, first and foremost, times have changed. And so, like, when you got an anchor like a David Robinson or a Tim Duncan

get ushered in right after that to become the future franchise player. And his level of greatness and all-time all nba caliber um play now gets to usher in tony parker and my new genoble and they were a super team people don't discuss that but that's what you guys have been watching the last 20 years in san antonio a super team a contender every year for 17 it's just that they drafted all of the players so we took it for granted and we just overlooked the spurs because they don't thump their chest i think we stopped overlooking them five years ago correct i think around 2013 people started properly

appreciating yes indeed well now this is a different era of player and so i would like to see what i know that they've been able to sign lamarcus aldridge i know that they've been able to sign LaMarcus Aldridge. I know that they've been able to sign Paul Gasol and Rudy Gay at this point of his career. But if you're not able to pair him with the next big free agent, like a Paul George, or what's going to happen at the end of this year with LeBron, or whatever, if you're him, you're looking around at the team. Like, wait a minute, Tony Parker ain't starting no more? How old is my is it just him or is it jordan brand in his ear going hey man that team's not gonna be relevant anymore we got to figure out a plan here well what happens as a player is and by the way we're not saying that he's gonna stand on the table and beat his chest and say oh i want out

of san antonio um what we are saying is a story franchise who has the all-time greatest coach of this era on the sideline, they now have to do what college teams have to do. They have to recruit. And the other thing – Well, they have the contracts eventually. They extended Pau, but I think they have some space coming up but the other thing that made the topic of conversation become one for public consumption where people were writing articles about it and i even talked about it on first take was that people feel like his injury

may have gotten misdiagnosed which by the way happens like 50 of the time in the nba you know who else's injury got diagnosed as a thomas and they ended up firing that entire training staff they fired the whole training staff and that turned his 120 million dollar contract into probably one year eight million and that wasn't great and so the the level of frustration that's the lead catalyst him not being able to play basketball in a timely fashion based on what he was told by the training staff start and stop you've seen him out there a couple of games you see a couple of games when he came back i i he didn't look right did you think he looked right he didn't and that's why i'm happy that coach pop and kawai and people came out and talked about how their relationship is the same as it's always been.

Yeah. But the undercurrent to that conversation also is they're all saying, well, we just hope that he kind of gets healthy. Like we hope that he's able to get back on the floor because that's kind of a point of contention. Because at this point of the season the goal clearly was to have him back out there so do you think he's a spur 12 months from now oh the unique thing about this topic you didn't you didn't answer i know what you're up to i know all your moves don't don't forget you're grappling don't forget i know every move you have so here here's the great thing i like about this. We'll know our answer really fast. You'll know this summer.

That's such a lame answer. You're going to know this summer. Oh, so you think in six months we'll know one way or the other? You're going to know. Because regardless of what we're reporting and what we're saying, we're actually going to get an answer because he has a chance to sign a $219 million contract in a few months. So he has a player option after next season.

Boom. Tony Parker comes off the cap. They got Patty Mills at 12 next year. They have Rudy Gay player option at 8. LaMarcus at 22. Gasol at 16. It's going to be hard for them to even sign a big free agent this summer. I don't know.

I don't see it. And also, a different era of player and he looked really comfortable in that commercial with nipsey hustle he's sitting back chilling and cali and so again i i'm not chasing he just made tate make a face i'm not by any any spent time in san diego he knows southern california is a nice place and again i'm not rooting any means. And he spent time in San Diego. He knows Southern California is a nice place. And again, I'm not rooting for one of the best players in the league to leave one of the story franchises in the NBA, but it's going to be unique based on what you said about the salaries,

but more so what happens with this injury if that decision is going to be made and be made that quick. Kuzma and something else and some picks for Kawhi I think would be one of the two candidates. And obviously the Celtics are involved because they have all those assets. But I think if he wanted to

push his way to the Lakers, that could pretty easily happen. It's going to be interesting to see, but again, I do not want to live in a world where Kawhi is not a spur plan for Pop. LeBron and Kawhi. LeBron and Kawhi and the Lakers? Can you answer the question or no?

Is Kawhi a spur in 12 months? 12 months from now. My opinion, and you normally can't get attacked for just having an opinion. Just your guess. I'm a human being. attacked for just having an opinion. I'm a human being. I can just have an opinion. This would be like if I asked you, is the song going to come out tomorrow? Or if I like twice baked potatoes.

Is Dave Jacoby going to have another kid? You would be guessing no. Correct. Is Kawhi on the Spurs in a year? My guess is no. Wow. Okay. And I hope I'm wrong. All right right you can look at your phone quickly here

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Started out, it was just me and him doing the podcast in October, November, December. Eventually, he started hosting a college basketball podcast with Grant Lynn's alumni, Mark Titus. He does an NFL podcast with Mike Lombardi called GM Street. But most important, he hates Duke more than anyone I've ever met. You hate Duke. He hates Duke three times as much. He's a Carolina guy. This segment is for Tate.

Why doesn't Coach K take more shit for basically outdoing what John Kyle Perry is doing as a one and done school because Duke is now a one and done school and they're pretending they're not optics for example initially coach K in this era was the first person to own that I'm recruiting your son to be a future NBA player. As somebody that's been recruited, fortunate enough to be a McDonald's All-American, those conversations changed

over 20 years from we're going to get him and turn him into a nice quality young man. He's going to get a good education. We're going to get him on campus and anything you need, we're one call away

and we're going to show him what it takes to be successful in life. He's like, we're one call away. And we're going to show them what it takes to, you know, be successful in life. He like, no, uh-uh. He got his ass kicked for a few years. I'm going to show you how to get to the league. You want to play in the league? You want to make millions of dollars to play the sport you love? Come to, like Shook said, come to Def Row.

And on top of that, oh, I'm the Olympic coach. Yes. Hey, oh, you love LeBron? Hold on, I'm going to text him. That's what I'm saying. Hey, you facetime uh steph curry hold on you want to facetime right yeah and so he owned it to the point where he took flack for it and he embraced it to the point where when players four five six at a time would enter the draft, you notice they would all be sitting at the podium giving us that visual.

Right? He was owning it. To be honest, and I love Cal, when you look back at all of the great players that he's had, and this is somebody that lost two national championships, but I only played three years. Yeah. I truly would have thought that they'd won more championships when he first got the job if you just look back at the totality slightly slightly overrated game

player yeah that he was able to recruit but also just projecting to what they've become in the league he owned it coach k didn't he slid in the back door he was like i'm only gonna recruit the one and done player if they want to come to duke you remember a few years ago when wisconsin was playing in the final four and their mayor or governor came out when they lost the game to kentucky the first shot he tried to take was at least our kids are here to go to school to go to class tate you remember that tate's like we might have to hose down tate he's loving this so much and if you notice that same year duke had a few one and duns too oh while cal still did the optics video picture at the podium of announcing that all of these guys are leaving, Duke never did that. They said the players were leaving,

but there was no visual that you could put on the wall as a portrait. I like that they count Kyrie Irving. He played 11 games there. He stayed for like five months. And so as recruiting has transpired, now Coach K being, other than John Wooden, in my opinion, the greatest college coach to do it. Sorry, Tate. He now says, okay, it's okay for me to do it now.

I won't get criticized anymore. Because Duke was not only a terrific collegiate program, but this is when players were staying three and four years. So they also became legacy, all-time, great playing college career type players. Bobby Hurley, Christian Laettner, Johnny Dawkins, Grant Hill. But it varied those players that went on to the pros to have success. Here's how I would compare Coach K. Coach K for years with the one and done was like the person who claims they don't smoke cigarettes i don't i never buy them i don't even

own a lighter but then every time you're out at 12 30 at night they're outside on the sidewalk having a cig with somebody that i thought you didn't smoke no i don't smoke i just now he's buying cigarettes correct he's buying cigarettes and he has the lighter well it's almost like like to your analogy is like the person that claimed to not smoke cigarettes because he's smoking something else but it's not cigarettes right no i'm sorry yeah you're right so i didn't lie yeah now he's like now he's going to 7-eleven and he's buying cigarettes and matches and and he's getting a little lottery ticket too and he's just owning it he's going to 7-Eleven, and he's buying cigarettes and matches, and he's getting a little lottery ticket too, and he's just owning it.

He's a Team USA coach, and now here's where the optics have changed. He had to realize that this era player, they care more about, in most cases, especially the elite-level McDonald's-caliber players, much more about getting to the league and making millions of dollars and being the best player they can be versus getting a college degree. Right. They want eight months and I'm out. And so he's now owning that, okay, Kyrie Irving is going to be here for 10 games.

And so now when Kyrie Irving goes and becomes an all-star level player, other young players want to follow suit. And so now he'srie Irving goes and becomes an all-star level player, other young players want to follow suit. And so now he's getting All-Americans. They're winning games. They're winning championships. But more importantly, something that wasn't happening as prevalent in the past is now happening. Duke players are really productive consistently in the pros now. So he gets the top three dudes this year. And they're all forwards.

Unheard of. He got Zion just like... It was like the person who bought a house and then just buys the house next door. Like, who on the phone? Oh, he ain't coming. He coming too? Oh, cool.

Let me get an extra appetizer. You know, it's just... It was gratuitous. And also, but here's what is also, to me, sucked a lot of the life out of the collegiate game. Now what happens is the McDonald's All-Americans, it seems over the last 10 years, and again, being a part of the Fab Five,

I clearly saw this trend happening. It just kind of cooled for a while. Really, all of the top players are going to like four or five schools you guys basically started that they're going to do arizona kansas kentucky that's where that's where they're going where's north carolina in carolina carolina there you go tate those are those are the five schools i mean if you look at the last you know i don't do any research but i guess if you look at the last, you know, I don't do any research, but I guess if you look at the last five or ten McDonald's All-Americans games and see where a large percentage of those school kids went,

that's where they're going. And so he's able to own it now, and he's killing it on every level. McDonald's players got the great college teams winning championships. He has three forwards. And they're going on to be great pros. I don't even know how he's going to play. What offense do you run with three 6'7 forwards? Hey, you bow down and kiss the rings.

He'll figure it out. Now Coach K got us bowing down and kissing the rings. Now he got it all covered, like we said, with LeBron. Tate, you can ask Jalen any anti-Duke question. What is it? After the first half in 92, when Christian Laettner was playing terrible, how did you feel? Did you guys think you were going to win that game?

Because it was – I mean, you guys had him shook early on. We felt like we were going to win because he was shook and we were up by one. The difference is a year prior, I was in southwest Detroit in Anderson Hunt's basement from head to toe in UNLV gear, crying when they lost to Duke, the same team that came out the second half against us had that experience and then turned it up another level because they were already championship tested.

Do you still talk to any of those guys like Bobby Hurley? You ever hear from any of those people? It's all Bobby Hurley's fault. He's the one that went to Christian Laettner and called him out. So here's the thing that happens, and I appreciate this because i try to be candid at what i do is people took the fab five documentary literally yeah like what i was saying in 2010 is how i felt in 1992. Right. It was the Uncle Tom thing. And also, like, what I said about Leitner, what I said about Hurley.

That's social media, though. Correct. Grabbing clothes and then all of a sudden it's. Yes. Yeah. And so, like. So now there's more bad blood than ever is what you're telling us. No, I'm saying just the opposite.

I have zero, like, Grant Hill's a part owner of the Atlanta Hawks. There have been a handful of times that I've taken my kids to the game and hit him up for tickets. See him at the game. We stand around and break bread, tell stories. That's great. The portrayal of our relationship is not really what it is based on how people felt about the documentary. And I guess that's what made the documentary so popular. Does Grant Hill deserve to be first duke hall of fame nba player absolutely yes that they they never had one so he's gonna be the first guy so for everybody hall of fame never had a guy in the nba hall

for the basketball it's college and pro yeah correct he should be in probably he is going to be in and also for those of you who get a chance to watch the league now, Grant Hill was an original version of Ben Simmons. Grant Hill and Penny and why am I blanking? Who was the other guy? Penny Hardaway. Correct. Those guys were guys who make so much more sense now than they did in 1994, 95, 96.

Correct. Because they would totally, you could three positions, size, everything. And the reason why I compare them to ben simmons is there's something distinct about their game neither one of them were three-point shooters yet you can never stop them from getting to the hole there's a tiny bit of jaylen and ben simmons could never stop him from getting to the hole a little bit do you get he's just bigger and stronger he's bigger and stronger than you were but same kind of rebound and go how about the ball there's not there hasn't been a lot of rebound and go with the ball. There hasn't been a lot of rebound and go, guys. Because there aren't many players that are 6'7 or above

that get the opportunity to be a primary ball handler in the league. Actually, I'm going to amend that. Rebound and traffic and go. That's a short list. Yes, indeed. A guy who can go in a crowd, get it, out with the head up, trying to make a play. First pass to the fast break.

There's five guys a year like that. Yes, indeed. And so I do believe Grant deserves to be the first player from Duke in the Hall of Fame. I've seen Christian Laidner recently at a Final Four. He'd make it more for college than pros. No, he doesn't. Totality for his career, I don't think he's you know hall of fame listen i

don't know what is it i think by in 20 years everyone's going to be in the hall of fame i'm going to probably be introducing you yes absolutely and so bobby hurley was somebody and coach collins um for those that don't know you know how his son chris went to duke now coach is at northwestern and so working with Coach and Bill to tell you like being my my Yoda big brother father figure I miss that dude absolutely and so I still obviously reach out to him when we're really close his grandson saw the Fab Five documentary and working with Coach we would always FaceTime them and look at the pictures of the kids and stuff like that. And they love Bobby Hurley. And once they saw it, they're like, why don't Jalen like Bobby?

And it kind of freaked them out because they were really into the documentary. So I actually reached out and got Bobby Hurley's number from Coach Collins and reached out to him and just gave him a shout. You guys don't get along. Do you remember the second year we did Count together you me and coach we're at the mandarin oriental and we had like a three-hour lunch where we just talked basketball the whole time and my friend dan clores was there and he was kind of the fourth and at the end of it he's like why isn't that your show and i like, because we didn't have commercial breaks. He was like,

I don't understand. You guys should have the greatest show of all time. I was like, hey, we got to rip through some quick questions. Okay, cool. Biggest name to be traded. The trade deadline's early this year, February 8th.

Kevin Love. Kevin Love. Backup choice? How about you throw a deal in there with him for CJj mccullum our guy kevin love going to portland hometown kids switching teams i think cj mccullum needs his own team because he's one of those you could run the offense through him guys and they already have that and i think those you should always have your own team in that situation. Do you believe in Toronto? I do.

And here's why. Kyle Lowry looks to be in shape. And I like every now and then when he pops up and has a 35, 40-point game. But yet he's still able to defer and not be high-volume, shoot, shot, taking shots, or turnovers. And he looks like he's in better shape. But the thing that propels them is that now demar de rosa can make threes is demar de rosa the single most underrated star in the league right now i i'm rolling with that i agree with you a perennial 25 point score

yeah that may walk down the street and people wouldn't necessarily know who he is. And the Toronto Raptors, for those that haven't been paying attention, are nipping at the heels of the Celtics in the East, record-wise. I've been paying attention. What are the odds? A team that relied on young players hit the wall. Jason Tatum now, I don't know what I'm getting at tonight.

It was bound to happen. Rank these cities. You're traveling for the finals okay rank these five cities in order of preference okay because you have to spend time at the finals okay and enjoy the finals okay and do all the things you do at the finals. Okay. I'm retired. No, food, food. Is there a third? Who's the third best team in the West? I'm blanking. San Antonio.

I'm not going to include them. Houston, Toronto, Golden State, Boston. Houston, Toronto, Golden State, Boston. Let's just say that you and I have done a lot of media over the years where you have shared your love and your affection for Houston and for Toronto. Yes. You're, in fact, the first person that I learned from, NBA players love Houston. Yes, indeed. Love Houston.

Yes, indeed. And Daryl Morey told me, I went to a Clipper game with him last week, he said, one of the reasons we have revenge games when people play the Rockets is because everybody loves playing in Houston and they're mad when we trade them absolutely Golden State Boston Houston Toronto all right I would say I loved living in Toronto but the only reason why I'm going to say number five is working in television you don't truly get the rating if they make it to the conference finals and i'm a company man i like that i'm a diva as it relates to travel and once you now go to the airport you have to go through customs and once you land everybody has to get on

the bus i don't even know who you are anymore. And so it just becomes a logistical nightmare if it's the Golden State Warriors and the Toronto Raptors. Four years ago, you would have been like, T-Dot! Let's get it on! I would think that that's probably the furthest distance of the teams

you just announced. That's pretty miserable. Especially in a 2-2-1-1-1. Golden State-Boston is not a picnic. That's a six-hour flight. Yeah, but I do that more frequent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I would only say that because...

So your dream finals is Houston versus Boston. You might gain 10 pounds. Yes. That's a lot of barbecue. I'll be Fat Jalen again. Fat Jalen's coming back. Yes, indeed. No doubt about it.

So I would say Toronto 5, Cleveland 4. Cleveland over Toronto? No, I take that back. Come on. Cleveland 5. Because how many times have we been there? Too many times. Right?

Cleveland 5, Toronto 4 for the reasons I said. Number 3, San Antonio? Boston. Number 3, five. Toronto, four for the reasons I said. Number three, San Antonio. Boston. Number three, Boston. I didn't include San Antonio out of the selections. Number three, Boston. Number two, Houston. Number one, Golden State.

Okay. Your best four coaches right now. My best four coaches right now are Pop, Spolstra, Brad Stevens. The fourth spot is the one that's interesting. And this year. I think I agree with you. I know what you're going to say. Dwayne Casey.

Yeah, that's what I had to. Finishing last, Jason Kidd. Great minds think alike. I think Dwayne Casey is the fourth best coach in the NBA, and I would not have said that five years ago. He's done a really good job this year. Most dangerous playoff team. The most dangerous playoff team?

Minnesota. I'm giving you three choices. Minnesota, OKC. Minnesota, assuming Butler's healthy. OKC, the Pelicans in New Orleans. Definitely OKC. Okay. Because they have something that the other two teams don't.

Russell Westbrook. Yeah. And I've seen him lift that team to the playoffs without other star-level players. Now they have Paulul george who can put up 20 in the quarter carmelo anthony that could get hot one of the most underrated players in the entire nba is stephen adams i always talk about skill big so like a boogie in the ad that could dribble pass and shoot but then there will bigs like capella and um adams that help drive a

team this is what cleveland is missing and are paying tristan thompson to do that he's not Capella, and Adams that help drive a team. This is what Cleveland is missing and are paying Tristan Thompson to do that he's not producing. Because of Rich Paul. I would definitely say OKC is going to be a dangerous team. I would say OKC too, but I think New Orleans is a nightmare in the wrong series for the other team. Correct. I've watched them a bunch of times this year, actually rooting against them when they played the celtics and when boogie and davis are going at the same time it's it's you're kind of helpless when boogie and if holiday's doing anything it's like oh shit now what do we do boogie's out here working out

if boogie's out here working out i'll take you back to the gym we're gonna get him to unblock you i'm so hurt i've never been more hurt by anything in my whole life why are nba players so sensitive now because now you're making more money you have more celebrity you have more fame so you like why are people criticizing me i'm winning in life leave me alone social media part of it like like likes, dislikes era of like my post, like my thing. How about this? I come from an era where we didn't care about being liked and definitely didn't want to be followed. Now that's exactly what the goal is, to get likes and to be followed.

Right. And what ends up happening is people underestimate the fact that our brains are like a computer. There are only so many things that you can take in. So if you constantly taking in all of the negative energy and the criticism and letting people's mention, letting people blow up your mentions, get to you, then you do what KD did. did you create a burner account so that you can now defend yourself not realizing you would have got a lot further with the 30 million following you on your account versus a burner account i don't have 400 people following it don't you think these guys have too much time on their hands now because they can't go anywhere i think they're in hotel suites and or in their house with their three buddies and i don't i don't think they have normal lives and i think it drives them crazy no

you underestimate that guys are still out I know they're out but I'm saying like during the day like no I'm under alright yes guys still love to eat drink and be merry you see what just happened with Montrez Harold

you saw that from today so he plays for the Clippers no I'm aware of that. Not a derogatory term because it's not gender specific. It's used for men and women. The term is called import. That's what he did. A young lady from Phoenix to L.A.

He kind of violated a couple of the rules, which I think got him caught up because the reason why that term exists is because you're dealing with somebody you really don't know and you definitely don't trust. So therefore, you're definitely not bringing them to your house. You have to meet you on the road in a hotel or something like that, where if they're taking a picture or something, it's not your personal things. That's the only thing he did wrong but obviously he was clearly a gentleman because she had an amazing time she was documenting the whole thing she took a picture here's my bag off to la here's my plane ticket here's where i'm on the airplane here's me in the bathroom here's me on the bed here's his house oh man he has a nice house lucky me smiley face and so she's documenting the entire trip and he clearly finds out this on instagram and so he comes out and says this is why he's going to remain single when actually it should

be the opposite this is why you should get into a relationship so you can deal with somebody you trust so since we stopped working together you're now in a relationship with molly who's on tv every day on first take and then you go and do tv with her yes indeed i could never do tv with my wife i don't know how you do that well the unique thing is we met at espn i know you know initially you know for a while and so it's not hard because we're talking about sports and in a relationship it's fine to disagree about sports it's not like we're up there arguing our political views or it's personal and she's highly professional and really good at her job and i'm unprepared and don't and not and not professional at all yeah so i don't get in her way it's like she allows me to come on her show

and i better behave and debating with ste A and debating with Max for, as you know, is something you got to be ready. You got to be ready, but it was something I was not invited to be on that show for a really long time. I remember why, as somebody that was a part of the show when it was cold pizza.

Yeah. As somebody that's known Stephen A long enough to, I appeared on his show when he had a his own television show in probably 2007 frankly quite frankly and so once i went on and no shots because me and skip are cool but once we had our debate and it went down the way that's like saying uh that's like saying Tyson Spinks was a was a fight and so once we had our exchange out of respect because it was uh obviously it went viral I just didn't get invited to go on the show for another handful of years and he didn't want you to be on

the show that was us of that so I'm happy to just be invited back on the show also yeah so it's almost twofold i get a chance to be on a popular show but lucky enough to be on with my better half you get to stay at the bristol ramada inn back back then we're we're east coasting now i'm not going to give the location to where molly and i are living and residing but yes we're fully east how tall is she she's five seven and a half interesting you said you would never go below 510 you must really like this person so you're always thinking about if you had more kids you wanted height oh so you so you said 510 was the minimum you're thinking about the lavar ball theory huh yeah my mom said he was breathing look uh You're thinking about the LeVar Ball theory, huh? Yeah. When he came out and said he was breeding.

What do you mean the LeVar Ball theory? You talked about this. You want to have a boy. You want to have a boy with size. You've been very clear about this. But the beautiful thing is love trumps all. You land where you're lucky. And I'm fortunate that I'll kick my coverage.

The greatest thing that's ever happened with you is that there are so many Jalens now. It is so freaking funny to me. I would say it's like one of the 12 most common sports names now. They're all over the place. There's Jalens. You have Jalen versus everybody, but it's really Jalens are everywhere. Should have been like the title. And here's the funny thing when when people get mad

about it they like he can't be the first one no way like no like my mother made the name up my biological father name is james my uncle there's a whole story her brother took her to the hospital to give birth when i became a member of the fab five it was one of the most popular names in the lexicon i remember it was one of the first quirky sports names were like jaylen how do you spell that like it was one of those and now there's a million quirky sports names but it's really not that quirky and the unique thing about it is other and i'm about to go cultural for a minute it's like other quote-unquote names that are predominantly used by black kids like shack and denzel yeah and those are two of the greatest at

all time at what they do i'm clearly not that in my profession but how about this it's a name that's now universal it's used by girls it's used by multiple races and ethnicities and backgrounds spelled differently multiple spellings and when i'm watching the alabama team play boom quarterback named jaylen boston celtics no forward name jaylen i'm working the draft i'm watching jacksonville jaguars philadelphia eagles so now the name has continued who's your favorite right now do you have a number one jaylen that's like me asking you who your favorite kids i'm not gonna do that not that they're my kids but i'm gonna get all jaylen i'm gonna answer equally i'm gonna

answer for you because i know you have a favorite jay. He's everything you want. Jalen Ramsey, I think is your favorite Jalen. He brings all the stuff to the Jalen table that if you had played cornerback, you would have been Jalen Ramsey. He's like your spiritual successor. But Jalen Mills is also, he's rocking around with green hair right now. I love how you want to give

love to all the Jalens. Yeah, no question about it. It's a kinship. You know what's interesting? You mentioned how there's no Denzel's. It's the one kind of off-limits name. He's too famous. You can't follow Denzel. You'd be like, here's my son Denzel. People are like, you can't name your kid that.

Right, he's almost too famous. Correct, he's too successful. You can't do it, right? Yes. That's well said. It would be like naming, yeah, that's got to be one of the off-limits. It's like if your last name is Jordan and you name your kid Michael. that's well said it would be like naming yeah that that's got to be one of the elements it's

like if your last name is jordan and you name your kid michael yeah you're not gonna do that that's why the actor who's a friend of mine he's like call me michael b jordan you know i need my middle initial he's a friend of this podcast that's my guy he's a good dude um and he's he likes the whole detroit scene too no doubt doubt about it. I got love for him. I think we'll save some stuff. You'll have to come back at some point. Yeah, next week or the week after. We'll save some content.

Yes, indeed. Plug some stuff. Oh, give me like, let's talk about Jacoby for like a minute. Yes. David Jacoby, our brother, is doing terrific. I'm actually going to see Joy and the kids today. Q and Margo, they're doing great. You guys have been doing stuff now for, this is like six years now.

And Chloe, absolutely. And again, we have a humble way of continuing to try to keep your legacy alive because, again, you're the springboard to what we do, and Harlan is still with the team. But you're making Jacobyoby move though yes jacoby he's leaving me still be do his executive thing and kind of like you had him doing with grantland and i'm not here to talk about his job description but he does some other stuff he does podcasts and some other suit stuff you're making it sound like he sells weed well no i just know sometimes i see him and he has on a shirt and tie but he's never had it on on

our program but we do it every day so i'm like where you coming from so um yes he said that you know since get up starts april 2nd he kind of waits his kids get out of school and things of that nature in particular q so i guess he and the wife are talking about moving to the east coast like may or june obviously that's not c minute but uh and you had this new big awesome building that's opening up in south seaport one of espn's few very smart decisions this is an amazing decision pretty cool by espn because think about it as a network you can wake up and you have monday through friday programming happening with levitard and the crew in florida and other shows they do out of there obviously at la live the shows that are happening out of the bristol um mothership and then now out of

south seaport so much easier to get guests most celebrities are going to be like i'll do it if it's in new york or la yes. You know what they're not saying? I'd love to take a 98-minute drive to Bristol. Correct. That sounds great. And that's no different from having a charity event. When I'm trying to invite somebody to come support, that's a celebrity, an event with JRLA. It's one thing if they live in the town.

It's another thing if they have to get on a plane to actually come to the town. So I'm excited about the move.acoby's excited about the move we're really excited that now that i've been on your fine program that we welcome you with open arms red carpet treatment to please come back i'd probably start the jaylen and jacoby program so we could pour out of 40 hours of old english on my head and we could pour out 40 ounces of Old English. You can pour it on my head. And we could do a program together. That'd be too much fun. At the studio that Bill built.

Well, this New York one. So what happens to LA? The Grantland studio dies? We have to do one before we kill the studio. That's what needs to happen. There you go. We need to do one. Absolutely.

All right. Done deal. This was was great i love you my brother this has been awesome i can't wait to come back on thanks for coming on thanks to zip recruiter the smartest way to hire my listeners can try it for free at zip recruiter.com slash bs thanks to casper start sleeping ahead of the curve with casper ironically jaylen would do the casper when you go out with him yeah i'm going to the bathroom. Where's Jalen? He's gone. I heard. He's history.

And not to speak out of school, but somebody taught me the term Irish exit. Yeah. Irish goodbye. Yes. That's a Kevin Wilde staple. Get $50 towards select mattresses by visiting Casper.com slash BS and using BS at checkout. That's Casper.com slash BS. Offer code BS for $50 off

your mattress purchase terms and conditions apply shout out to Amina shout out to Lisa no doubt shout out to Ty

yes Fly Ty Velo shout out to Belo no doubt about it shout out to Jacoby Connor Shell shout out to Kevin Wilds

Kevin Wilds shout out to Connor no doubt Michelle Beetle Rachel Nichols, our peeps. Yeah. Thanks for doing this. This was fun. Yes, indeed.

Zach Lowe. We got to get him a hoodie. Get low. Get low. Get low. Get low. On the wayside, I never said I don't have feelings with him. On the wayside, I never said I don't have feelings with him.