The Bill Simmons Podcast - The Last Nets Dance, Mac Mania, Elite QB Watch, and RIP Jimmy Caan With Kevin Wildes, Peter Schrager, and Brian Koppelman

Episode Date: July 8, 2022

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Kevin Wildes of Fox Sports to talk about Mac Jones, Chet Holmgren's NBA Summer League debut, Kevin's pitch for Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant's 'Last Dance', how Joey Chestnut ruined the Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest, fixes to the summer sports schedule, and more (1:44). Then, Bill talks with NFL Network's Peter Schrager about Baker Mayfield being traded to the Panthers while the Browns don't have a starting QB for Week 1, Bengals optimism, what the 49ers will do with Jimmy Garoppolo, the loaded Chargers and the electric AFC West, how many truly elite QBs are in the NFL, and more (42:15). Finally Bill and Brian Koppelman remember the late James Caan (1:16:56). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Kevin Wildes, Peter Schrager, and Brian Koppelman Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, if you like listening to this podcast, you might like watching clips from it too. Go to youtube.com slash Bill Simmons. That is where we have the clips from all the latest episodes, six years of BS podcasts, as well as some rewatchable stuff too. youtube.com slash Bill Simmons.

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Coming up on this one, it is action-packed. My friend Kevin Wilds came on to talk about Mac Jones, the hot dog eating contest. KD and Kyrie, Aaron Judge. We hit a lot of topics. And then Peter Schrager, our last football combo before probably late August. So we had to talk about Baker Mayfield and Jimmy G. Talked a little Mac Jones too.

Elite QBs and who we might like as an MVP sleeper. So there's that. And then last but not least, our guy Jimmy Kahn passed away age 82. I couldn't believe it when I heard the news. We just did Misery for the rewatchables

that he was one of the stars of. Did that three days ago with Brian Koppelman. So I brought Brian back to talk about why Jimmy meant so much to us. We called him Jimmy. It's like if you love James Kahn enough,

eventually you just started calling him Jimmy Conn. He was in a bunch of rewatchables that we did over the last few years and just over and over again proved that he was a one of one. There was nobody quite like him. Brian and I are going to explain why.

It is all coming up next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. all right kevin wilds is here my old buddy from ESPN and Grantland and the Grantland Basketball Hour. You can find him on First Things First. Peter Schrager is coming up later in this podcast, and we do talk about Mac Jones for a second. You guys are in a feud, which I didn't realize. We're not in a feud.

No, it feels like a feud. I feel like I'm in the middle of it. No. The only thing worse than being in a feud and being viciously insulted on the internet is being completely ignored. And Peter Schrager sent out a tweet, which was a video. And he said, you know what? It's not a very big Island, but I'm going to lead the Mac Jones fan club. Who's with me? And I was really, I mean, I bought a literal baby goat for Christmas that I was going to break out on our playoff games. My son loves stuffed animals. I had to hide this thing. So in case he saw it, I'd be like, no, that's not for you. It's for television.

I mean, what more do I need to do? So Schrager's tweet was he did the Mac Jones Allen and he name dropped me. He name dropped nephew Kyle and one other person. And you just felt like this is now Lord of the Flies. I don't know who's piggy, but I think you guys just need to go and you guys need to decide this once and for all. And by the way, I don't know where I am on this because nobody was more excited for chiseled jaw in shape Mac Jones photos than me. I was sending them, I was at seven different text threads about it. Send it to family members who hadn't heard from me in nine months. Like, hey, did you see this?

He looks amazing. I'll tell you what, if Tom Brady was smart, you want to sell some T-shirts. Why don't you sign up Mac Jones, the baby goat, have his sweaty Adonis upper body in some Brady wear? Woof. That will sell.

Can I keep on going on Mac Jones? We can do the whole Mac Jones podcast. Let's do, give us one more Mac Jones thing and then we got to move. We have a whole agenda. Go. No, give it to us. Just one more Mac Jones thing Then we got to move We have a whole agenda Go, no, give it to us Just a brief Mac Jones agenda We saw Mac Jones

Said he was going to work out with Tom House We haven't seen video of it We saw him lifting weights Great, getting stronger Then we saw his Adonis Thor-esque body Great Then we saw a video of him throwing the long ball He may have thrown it 80 to 90 yards

We're not sure because it wasn't tracking. The only thing that I want from technology as a whole, I don't need more social media. I don't need a smart refrigerator. What I need is the overall adoption of smart footballs, let's say, where I can know if Mac Jones threw how many revolutions per minute and how far and how speed. Like an app. It's just something. I know that the Steelers used this with Roethlisberger when he was coming back from his bum elbow or bum shoulder. But if I can know the exit velocity on every single baseball hit, I just want to know like, hey, is Mac Jones throwing the ball harder or not?

Right now, it's just like, well, that looks good. I'm certainly going to say it's good. But I would like some hardcore data as well. That's it. Or maybe we don't want to know how hard he's throwing it. Maybe we want him to throw it as hard

as we want him to throw it. Well, he throws a nice pillowy ball too. I mean, it's, it's, it's not just, it's not Josh Allen just throwing fastballs all the time.

It's like catching a cloud. You bring up something that is very important to me. I love watching quarterbacks in the off season, just throwing ropes to people. And I also love Anthony Edwards and those two worlds merged when there was off season, just throwing ropes to people. And I also love Anthony Edwards and those two worlds merged when there was Anthony Edwards, just throwing 60 yard bombs and catching 60 yard bombs. And this was just the thing that was on the internet. That was like, I was like, I hate Twitter. I think it's the worst. I wouldn't care if Elon

Musk bought Twitter and destroyed it because I think it just brings a lot of evil to the world. And yet, the reason I keep going back is stuff like these Anthony Edwards, just the ability to watch him play football for two minutes. This should be, they're trying to figure out how to fund the big three right now. The big three should just be just athletes who aren't football players, just playing touch football, who are just amazing athletes. I would watch that. Yeah. Anthony Edwards in a football big three are just amazing athletes. I would watch that. Yeah. Anthony Edwards in a football big three. We'd have some insurance issues with that.

Tim Rolos might not be happy about that. But it is. As an audience member, I understand why you would want that. To spend the summer, Anthony Edwards. Hustle, I thought he was great. I thought he was in the short list

of best basketball player performances I've seen in a movie. Like, honestly. I mean, Bernard King in Fast Breaks won. Ray Allen, and he got game as two. And then it gets dicey. You got to really start. But at the end of the day, he was on that next level, I felt. Wow.

I thought he was good because he had a nuanced role. It was like a lot of just whispering, a lot of like, hey, oh, that's your mom. Oh, got it. Dude, were you upset that... He was a psychological warfare character, which I wasn't expecting. I loved it.

Were you upset that Bo Diaz got released? In real life? Yeah. Would you give him another shot? Based on the movie alone, I would. I'd be like, oh, he's pretty good. Yeah, when you watch Wancho and Hustle, it just feels like he should be one of the best

30 players in the league. Stretch four, unbelievable athlete, can knock down. What else do you need from a stretch four? Anybody who works out with a monster truck tire is good with me. If you're throwing a ball through a monster truck tire, yeah, of course you got to be good. It would be a great Warriors minimum signing that I think everybody would get excited about.

When people got excited about the Patrick Baldwin draft pick, they're like, oh, all the tools the Warriors can figure it out. They signed the guy from Hustle. That is a great call. Or the Timberwolves. I know Timberwolves got a lot of height already, but... I think they traded him already, though. Hold on. Timberwolves traded who?

Well, a couple years ago, they traded Wancho. But now you have... I know, but now you have Anthony Edwards, and they would join forces. It'd be a good narrative. Unbelievable. There should be some sort of SB for most beloved breakout, like most beloved breakout star. Because Anthony Edwards,

nothing really happened, right? They lost in round one. He probably had a big defensive screw-up at the end of one of those games. So I had some really fun moments. I think he kind of won people over as just like highest young guy approval rating in the league. So there's that.

He's great in Hustle, which I think is the most watched Netflix movie this year, which is nothing. Can I, is that true or not? No, I think it was.

It's like every month. It was number one for like two weeks. Most, but is that algorithm specific to us because we're like clicking on the sports films?

No, they have the top 10, which I think is just locked in. Okay. Well, good for Adam Sandler. So we had that. He had the football videos, which I just feel like should be part of his repertoire going forward.

It's just nothing more fun than watching football. And then the Gobert trade, they trade every draft pick they have until 2080 to try to get him a defensive center right now. It's just the, it's kind of the secret year of Anthony Edwards. I'm enjoying it. And remember he had the quote that he didn't like

or he said he wasn't afraid of Gobert, but it didn't register. It didn't stick. But poor Robbie Anderson. Because people like him. Nobody wanted to hold it against him. Poor Robbie Anderson wrote one Instagram comment, one word.

He just wrote, no. And now it's a big controversy because he got Baker. Anthony Edwards did a full soliloquy on how he didn't like Gobert. He's like, that one word. He just wrote, no. And now it's a big controversy because he got Baker. Anthony Edwards did a full soliloquy on how he didn't like Gobert. He's like, that's okay. You guys work it out. Robbie Anderson can't have an Instagram comment. I'll get him put through the ringer. It all comes down to how much people like you.

We just need, the last piece for Edwards is no celebrity relationship. Just stay away from that. The celebrities are going to come at him. They're going to try to latch on. They're going to try to get the paparazzi relationship out celebrity relationship. Just stay away from that. The celebrities are going to come at them. They're going to try to latch on. They're going to try to get the paparazzi relationship out of them. Just hold tight, Anthony Edwards. Find the right person for you.

Okay. Speaking of people we love who've won the summer, Chet Holmgren. That's another person. This podcast is really about wilds planting flags. Big time Because we had on the ringer We had Steve Cerruti and Kevin Clark They basically decided for the draft

We want them to take Chet I thought they moved on that I thought they were 50-50 split They talked themselves into What was it Cerruti? Was it a 50-50 split or was it both you guys for Chet? We both wanted Chet. Definitely.

Okay, I'm sorry. But then it was one of those... It seemed like they were taking Jabari. So it became one of those situations like I wanted my daughter to go to my alma mater, but now she's going here. And then two weeks later,

you're like, no, we always wanted her. You know, Michigan's a great school, but you're like devastated they didn't go to Notre Dame. That's where those guys were with Jabari and I think most of the fan base. And then they did the Palo thing and then the Summer League happens.

Now Orlando's like, the season hasn't even started yet. Did we screw up the pick? Well, so they're playing tonight. Palo versus Jabari tonight. I don't know when we're going to put this out. So that's interesting. if those guys feel any pressure to either outscore each other or outscore Chet's debut.

The thing about Chet, and I'm hardcore team Chet, were you at all worried about how Kenny Lofton Jr. kind of put his shoulder into Chet's sternum and treated him like one of those skateboarding memes where the guy goes flying down the street. Because I talk a big game, but I'd be lying if I told you it wasn't a little bit concerning

considering Kenny Lofton Jr. isn't Joel Embiid. It's a concern. So two things. Never overreact to summer league. That's one of my rules in life. I tell my kids that. I'll tell my grandkids, same thing. Chet's upside was never the question to me.

The question to me was always, can he stand the floor and how is his body going to evolve over the next five, seven years? The talent was never in question. So to me, it's not surprising that he looked awesome in a summer league game. me, it's not surprising that he looked awesome in a summer league game.

And it's also not surprising that he got pushed around because he's 19. The question for me is, what is he going to look like when he's 26? What is his body going to look like? Can he avoid the injuries that some of these tall, lanky guys have seemed to have? And that's why it's such a tough draft pick.

I don't think, I don't even know if there's a right answer. Because if you're all in on Chet and he gets hurt, were you wrong? So if he gets hurt, knock on wood. If he just has like the same kind of big guy injuries

that we've seen with different people, does that mean you were wrong? Because what if he shows he was awesome when he was healthy and then he kept getting hurt? Were you wrong? Well, I mean, that's a good question. First of all, he's never been hurt. And one of the reasons I think he hasn't been hurt, and a lot of it when they've done studies on this, it's a lot of it's

just luck, right? If you land on someone's foot, it is what it is. But I am not in the school of thought that Chet needs to start pounding protein shakes and Chet needs to put on 20 pounds and Chet needs to hit the weight room. That feels like a recipe. Durant didn't do this. No. And Durant's like,

you gain a little bit of muscle and you get what every man knows. You get that old man strength or medium, middle aged man strength. He doesn't have to gain any weight. You just kind of get stronger and you get better at ping pong as you get older.

There's nothing you actually do, but those skills just come to you. I think Chet's old man strength will come hopefully a little sooner than later. Don't do the Anthony Davis I've put on 30 pounds of muscle. Oh, gosh. And now I look like a different human being.

Look how strong I am in this preseason game and then I get hurt a month later. That's an interesting take. Don't do that. Maybe, should Anthony Davis lose a ton of weight? Get back to being like skinny Kentucky Anthony Davis. I've made the take. It's a great take.

Look at the history of these big guys as they've gotten older. The smart ones get skinnier. Did Tim Duncan put on weight? No. Tim Duncan started to look like he was like a beach volleyball player by the time he was like, you know, 2012 range. I think that's the move. Because you want to be lighter.

Remember me when I made my famous comeback for pickup hoops in my early 40s for those two years. What did I do? I got skinnier. I was light. Cut the carbs. Yeah. Cut the carbs. I was like 170 pounds.

I was flying around. No, you weren't. Me, Duncan? You were not 170 pounds. I was 170. What are you talking about? I was actually lower after the Olympics. Yeah. If you were 170, that means some days you wake up, you're like 167.

Yeah. No way. No way. No, you're sneaky tall. No one realized that. I'm telling you. You're sneaky tall. When I came back from London, I was like 165. And my wife was like, you need to start drinking milkshakes. I don't want to, I'm not dating like, you know, some Christian Bale in the movie where he lost 80 pounds. This isn't happening. The chat thing though, I think is going to be really fun. And in general, the basketball subplots are so much fun because then we also have the KD Kyrie thing. All right, so what do you... You know what? Let's take a break because this deserves its own thing.

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This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win that Super Bowl ring. He rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl,

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Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. I stole this take from you, so just do it because I did it a couple days ago. No, I referenced you. I credited you, but you're looking. Do your last dance thing.

Just give us the official KD, Kyrie, and the last dance. Okay, so it's fun. I get it to play musical chairs with KD and Kyrie. What uniform are they going to wear? You get on the trade machine. I get it to play musical chairs with Katie and Kyrie. What uniform are they going to wear? You get on the trade machine. I get it. This would be my offer to them. If I was Josiah, I would go and get two Last Dance DVDs, not stream it, the actual DVD.

So you got to really commit and say, guys, what is this movie about? Oh, it's about Michael Jordan's greatness and it's about teamwork. It's not. It's about a group of guys, namely Phil Jackson, Scottie Pippen, and Michael Jordan, who are very upset with management. But rather than flee, they say, you know what? Let's print up the binders and write the last dance on, and we'll go hard. And when we win, it will be a celebration with the management, but we're really sticking it to the management. Now, that theory works if you subscribe to the idea that Kyrie feels disrespected, and that's why he wants out. And as an ancillary downfall of that, KD feels disrespected on Kyrie's behalf.

Now, I don't know if that's true, but if they're upset at management, then they should last dance it. And I've yet to figure out, we're almost two weeks into this KD thing. Why does KD want to leave? No one has given me a straight answer that makes any sense. And now Chris Haynes is saying that he's gone zero dark 30 and not answering anybody's call. It's not because he wants a better chance to win because Brooklyn is favored in the East if they come back.

It's not because... One of the favorites. One of the favorites, okay. It's not because he doesn't want to play with Kyrie because there's reports that he does want to play with Kyrie. It's not the money. The money's going to be saying, not the contract. I don't think it's Steve Nash. He handpicked Steve Nash, and if it was,

he could go to Sean Marks and say, let's move Steve Nash. If it's Sean Marks, he could go to Joe Sy and say, let's move Sean Marks. And if it's Joe Sy, doesn't like the ownership group, then you wouldn't have Robert Sarver and the Suns on your wishlist. So what's the issue? I haven't figured it out. Only just general discontent.

So be mad at management and go to last dance. It's the same strategy I did for Grantland Basketball Hour, if you remember, in October. I went to you and Jacobi and I was like, this is probably our last dance. Let's go out with an Emmy. Let's make the greatest show we could make. I'm really proud of that show. They were really good. We made 10 and then we basically got shelved.

But it's very similar. A lot of people don't mention that last dance part. No, no, no. So your last dance analogy, everything is there except for, um,

playoff success. True. And I think Kyrie is just so much more. I'm trying to be nice, erratic, unreliable than Pippen, who Steve Kerr said was the greatest teammate he ever had. Okay.

And who got surgery before the season as an FU to the team. But other than that was pretty reliable for those guys. Kyrie, I think the problem with Kyrie is he's one of the most unreliable athletes we've ever had in a team sport. Okay. Just to Kyrie's defense. No. Scotty Pippen got elective surgery.

Not wasn't elected. It was a surgery that he needed, but he postponed it so he could miss weeks of games. Wasn't great. Hard run to defend. Yeah. Spiteful. Spiteful.

Some people would say. Kyrie took a week off for some personal matters and the whole vaccination issue we'll put over there. They also had Dennis Rodman on the team who missed, had excused absences to wrestle. And play and go to Vegas just to gamble. Just to hang out, just to hang out with Carmen Electra. So the idea that Kyrie is, is on the same plane as those

guys, I think is unfair. Put the vaccination stuff aside as a one year, um, New York quirk, let's say New York law quirk, put that aside this year. What is preventing Kyrie from, let's not say eight, let's not say 82 games, let's say 60 games. So you know what? Let's pencil in 10 games that Kyrie is going to miss. What if I did a game show? 82 games or 82 minutes? What would you bet on for Kyrie?

He could only pick one of the two. Okay. Well, then of course, I'm not going to pick 82 games. I just don't think he wants to. I don't think it would be wise to do 82 games. I just don't think he wants to. I don't think it would be wise to do 82 games. How about 55 games or 55 minutes?

55 games. I would go all in. I'm all in on 55 games. All right, 65 games or 65 minutes? 65, but that's it. 66, that's it. So 66, you're out. You're tapping out. 67. I'll go the whole way it's like the boiling frog thing

this is a good Vandal bet how many games will Kyrie play this year that I'll get back up all the way to 82 I would say the over under for him is

for games played this year I think cannot be higher than like 55 and a half in a Nets uniform or you're saying like if I'm Vandal if I'm setting that line period games played this season I think it has to be like 55 and a half In a Nets uniform? Or you're saying... Like if I'm FanDuel, if I'm setting that line, period,

games played this season, I think it has to be like 55.5. Maybe even lower. Maybe it's 50.5. Because you're trying to attract equal betting action on both sides, right? Some people go into that and say, oh, he's not playing under.

So you got to have some sort of thing. Anyway, go ahead. I don't know what to do. No, no. So I think that... I don't think this Lakers deal gets done. And I think because... Well, you know why the Lakers deal is going to get done.

It's simple economics. Westbrook costs $11 million more than Kyrie. The Nets are a tax team. So not only would they have to take a worse player, but then they would also have to take on like another $50 million in tax bills. Joe Sy, this guy's like a ruthless businessman.

He runs Alibaba. He's not going to be like, cool, let's set more money on fire because Kyrie doesn't want to be here anymore. He's in the fuck you mode. Okay. If you don't think Kyrie is going to get done, and I don't think, I'm not sure there's no way that the Nets are going to win the KD trade.

I think he stays. I think he stays too. So here we go. So now they just need a motivation to stay, and that is like, stick it to the management. And here's the other question for you. I think it's the most likely way that it plays out, but I think it could be KD and Kyrie just goes away until the season starts and they figure out some sort of trade before February would be my prediction. Two more things. One, why is Steve Nash still the coach of that team? Steve Nash was, you know, there's reports that, oh, he wasn't handpicked by Durant. Like, okay, I've seen the videos of Durant and Steve Nash working out in Golden State.

Maybe it's just a big old coincidence, but it certainly feels like Kevin Durant, if Kevin Durant didn't want him as the coach, I think he would have vetoed it. But it feels like they had a good relationship, of course. But he's still the coach. He's still the coach. Why?

Because I think losing Steve Nash would reduce your chances of keeping KD. The other reason I think they stay is, three weeks, no, sorry, two months ago, Kyrie was referring to him and KD as the cornerstones of the organization, and they were going to build with Sean and Joe. You can't quote Kyrie. It's not fair to quote Kyrie.

No, but it's two months ago. He'll say one thing one day, and then he'll say the complete opposite thing the next day. Well, I know. You might as well quote your kids and be like, wait, you told me you work and eat candy again. Like, you just can't. It's like Summer League.

If Chet plays well, look, Summer Summer League. If Chet plays well, look, Summer League counts. If Chet plays poorly, I'm like, come on, you guys making a big deal out of Summer League? Yeah. If Kyrie's,

if the Kyrie stay, Kyrie wants to stay quotes, I put a lot of value to. No, that's, don't take anything seriously from him. on the red carpet of the award show, I'm not putting

a lot of credit, credence in. I like your last dance thing. I have a couple more things for you. Go. I have two smaller ones and then a bigger one. Which one do you want? I like the small ones. Okay.

Aaron Judge. Mm-hmm. The ultimate example we have right now in 2022 of somebody who needs a time machine, who needs to go back to 1998 where he would immediately become one of the three most famous athletes we had. Now he's in 2022 and it's fine

and the Yankee fans love him and nobody else cares. And if this is 1998, it's like, can Aaron Judge hit 65 homers? Could he be the most talented Yankee ever? Aaron Judge watch. Because we cared about, everyone cared about baseball as a national sport back then. And we needed like, you know, the sluggers were the sexiest guys. The Maguire Sosa.

Those were like for sports content. We love those guys. And now in 2022, it's like, eh, whatever. Baseball has become this, in the playoffs, everyone cares. But during this season, freaking Otani, and this has become a new sports media trope where people do the segments where they go, I can't believe people don't care more about Otani.

And that's just the segment. But there are no Otani conversations because he's not on a winning team. It's the way it's going to be. He'll never be in the playoffs, at there are no Otani conversations because he's not on a winning team. It's the way it's going to be. He'll never be in the playoffs, at least with this

Angels team, unless they can figure it out. Nobody's going to really care about Otani until he's actually playing in October.

With Judge, he's the best Yankee. He's in a contract year. He's sticking it to them. He's had all these walk-off homers. And just think like how we would have

reacted to this in 1997 or 1998. Aaron Judge needs a time machine is my take. So, solid take. Thanks. Do you think that how the home run, the Maguire-Sosa saved baseball post-strike, do you think Aaron Judge chasing, let's say 60, just because 60-61 still feels like a magical record,

even though I know it's not. 61 in 1998 was magical and he's on pace right now. Yeah. So do you think him going after that, if, you know, as a Yankee, I didn't even think about that. Like a little like Maris Mantle, Babe Ruth thing. Do you think that that could just sort of, I don't know,

turn up the PR machine and that would catapult him? Once he gets to 58, I think it will start to heat up. Unless that starts to become near football season. Think about the Yankee who's getting a multi-part documentary on ESPN a little bit later this month that we'll be covering on the New York New York podcast with our guy John Jastrzemski.

What Judge is doing just this season is greater than any Derek Jeter season by far. Jeter was the best Yankee but from like a kick-ass standpoint he's not one of the

four best Yankees ever. I think he's you know one of the best probably Yankees ever. I think he's, you know, one of the best, probably the best modern Yankee the last 25 years. Yeah. But Judge's talent this season and his stats and his impact is like the most important Yankee season anyone's had.

And there are no national conversations about it because people just don't talk about baseball that way anymore. But what do you want them, but what do you want the conversation to be? There is no conversation. It is what it is. People are going to,

they'd much rather talk about Kyrie for the 10th straight day or where Baker Mayfield's going. That's fine. I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying he missed out. He needs to hop in a time machine. Okay.

It's almost, and this is a weird thing. I'm still workshopping the take, but I like it. No, it's okay. It's a solid take. When I called like no hitters I'm still workshopping the take. No, it's okay. It's a solid take. When I called

no-hitters in the Patriots undefeated season where it's like, oh, hey, there was a no-hitter. There was a perfect game. Do you want to put it in the show? There's nothing to discuss. It was just awesome. And when the Patriots

went 18 and oh, once they got to, I don't even know when we stopped really talking about it because the conversation only was, can they go undefeated? And then they want to get there. All right. Now they're 10 and oh,

can they go? So it's like a conversation. Yeah. It's almost like, you know, it's a more fun version of this? Was Miami's 27-game winning streak in basketball when they had a chance to get to 33.

I think that was like the most underrated, really fun streak we've had. I remember that one. The Warriors' 25-game one was fun too, but the Bulls beat them. Do you remember that game? No, I don't remember that at all. You were fucking working for a sports company.

I don't know. I mean, I think I was off those three months. No, I don't remember that. I feel bad. Did you have a kid born in 2012, 13, Rich? Yes. Yeah, that's what happened. See, that's...

It's either I was born in July. I don't really remember anything that happened in 2008. Yeah, I was there the whole time, I don't really remember anything that happened in 2008 for sports wise. Yeah, I was there the whole time. I just don't remember anything that happened. Second chain is just like

murdered my brain. Just pop up. You're just answering the bare minimum amount of emails to keep your job like all right. You either try to stay awake

or being yelled at. Those are the two things. I would just have a spit up rag on me at all times. And then I was, once I lost that, I was able to go back to work. Do you,

are there any other guys you think would have just been better off 25 years ago than they are right now? The other one I was thinking was Kyler Murray. I think people would have gone nuts for him in 1998. Like, Oh my God, look at this guy. I mean,

this is like, Jesus. I mean, you could go with all the shooters and all that stuff, but yeah, I mean, it's pretty much, I don't know. I need some, I need some all the shooters and all that stuff, but. Yeah. I mean, it's pretty much.

I don't know. I need some, I need some time on that. All right. You work on, you work on that. Maybe next time. All right. Okay. My other, uh, my other small take is actually your take. Cause you brought this up.

The hot dog contest. You have your own take of the hot dog contest. I just feel like Joey Chestnuts. He's ruined it in a way that I think is really profound and I don't hold it against him but it really reminds me

of when the Devils did that trap that one year with Brodeur and all of a sudden hockey just wasn't fun anymore and it took them

like years to bounce back from it I remember when Ivan Lendl was really good for a while people were like fuck men's tennis

what happened and the hot dog contest which I used to love but now really the only thing that seems to matter is can he beat the over-under that they set for him? Nobody's within 20 of them and he's just ruined it. I can't think of anything like it. Yeah. So I have two takes on this. One is a rules change. So I was watching the hot dog eating contest. From now on, we have to reset. There's no more dunking your buns in the water. So no more soggy buns.

No more soggy buns. It's an unnatural way to eat a hot dog. And if we want to be honest about the integrity of the hot dog eating contest. It has to feel like you're actually eating hot dogs at a normal picnic on July 4th. No one's dumping the buns. And if you want, you know what I was like? If we really want to do this, I'm going to put 50 hot dogs in a blender and drink the whole darn thing. If we want to start- Kevin, where's the line? You're right. There is none. like, well, okay, Kevin, you can't, uh, you can't use electricity. All right. I'll get a little hand crank and I'll

crank up a blender and I'll like, wow, wow. It's just drank 30 hot dogs. It doesn't work. So that's the first rule change. The other one is more is Joey Chestnut's dominance scaring off other people? Oh, like future champions just give up before they even thought about doing it. They're like, you know what? I'm better off going to the chicken wings category. That's where the money is. I can't go. What's the point of showing up here and coming in third place?

No, I'm going to go down to the mayonnaise drinking competition, whatever it is. I can't go, what's the point of showing up here and coming in third place? No, I'm going to go down to the mayonnaise drinking competition. Whatever it is. So I think some of Joey Chestnut's dominance might be hurting the sport. So there you go. That's true. Or do we need to branch out to other foods

and try to brand them? There's no interest. They've tried that. Pizza? Pizza doesn't work? I ate too much pizza on 4th of July and I had to lie down There's no interest. They've tried that. Pizza? Pizza doesn't work? I ate too much pizza on 4th of July and I had to lie down for like 45 minutes. It's just not going to take off. It's a little bit of the Nathan's, a little bit of the mustard belt. It's a little bit of the July 4th.

I don't think there's another... Maybe on Thanksgiving, you could have a gravy drinking competition before football, a little 10 a.m. Gravy drinking? I don't know. Turkey legs. But no, I think the American sports fans' appetite for competitive eating is about 15 minutes.

I don't think we should stretch it. That's why I couldn't believe they did a 30 for 30 about it. I definitely would not have agreed with that one. But it's good. It's a pretty good one. To me, the capacity for me is like four minutes of watching. When they cut the one this year, they cut to the one guy with the beard

and just all the stuff was stuck to his beard. And it was just disgusting. The thing with the hot dog contest is you look forward to it, and then when you're watching it, it's just the most disappointing entertainment experience. There's nothing fun about it. It's disgusting. It's like in the Challenge. They just had

the Challenge All-Stars. Congratulations to Wes and John A. Wes getting another title, but they stopped there in the middle, and they eat these disgusting animal things, and everyone's throwing up. And I always just fast forward it. I'm like, I don't want to watch this.

It's disgusting. Yeah, I'm not a big fan. Yeah, I like your thing. All right, last thing for you. It's not even a content void that we're about to enter. It's in Nadir. Oh. We haven't had this for a couple years.

After we get through the Wimbledon final, which we just, Kyrgios is now advancing to the finals because Nadal, he bowed out with his abdominal injury. So we're going to have this, the women's final with two people that frankly have no name recognition at all.

And then the men's final, which is going to be Djokovic versus Kyrgios, which will be, I think, a really good theater, which is going to be Djokovic versus Curios, which will be, I think really good theater. That's going to be an amazing match. And then we just go into an abyss and all of a sudden it's the baseball all-star game that nobody cares about anymore,

even though people watch it. Home run derby, which is fun, but I feel like it's the same thing every year. British open, summer slam. There'll be UFC event. And that's it. And I guess here's my thought Wilds

somebody's not looking out for the big picture here it shouldn't dip off like this we should have been more creative like the US Open should the US Open be sooner should we bring the golf majors should we reconfigure the golf majors again? How do we fix this so there's more stuff

so we don't have a void like this? Because I think it's bothersome. Okay. So first thing, home run derby and all-star game, I think are still big events and are interesting. So I think it starts after that.

Tuesday, Wednesday. I don't get a weekend out of it. All-star game is fun for an inning and it's fun to bet on, but I didn't, there's no, no huge conversations the next day about the All-Star game. I like it. Okay.

So U S open is a great idea to push the U S open back. Yeah. One of the, one of the big issues, uh, when I worked at ESPN was it would... Remember, there was a night that it got rained out on

a Sunday, and then it got pushed to Monday, and I'm like, well, it's Monday night football. Yeah, what are we doing? It's tough. So I think pushing that back, it's a little hot, probably too hot in the daytime. Is August that much hotter than September, though? I don't know.

Yeah. Yeah, I guess. Yes, it is. So, but maybe you could have more nighttime matches. I know people like to go and, you know, drink that Grey Goose drink with the little melon that looks like tennis ball in the afternoon. But maybe if you just have a longer window with more night matches, so it's not too hot.

It feels like the finals should be the week before the NFL season. I'm into that. I don't want to mess with that at all. Then I was thinking like, could there be like a college football?

Like the preseason at NT, college basketball has? Could college football do something that, you know, college football, basically they've blown up

the entire sport. It makes no sense anyway. Might as well have preseason stuff. That's not bad. Okay. I've got one for you. Yeah.

What do you think about organized exhibitions? So not organized box, not like the boxing, although I think that does work, whether or not I'm interested in it, but the Ben Johnson versus Michael Johnson, 150 meter dash, like a, like an event. Old timer events. No, no, not. Oh, you mean like new event? Like we're creating new events for current athletes that don't currently exist.

Yeah. Maybe, maybe Olympic athletes. Maybe it's Tyreek Hill is always challenging everybody to a race on Twitter, but it never happens. So maybe it's an organized event. Could it be Battle of the Network Stars or the Superstars? Those shows that we could... What if they had the crazy prizes for them? I don't think anybody wants... I don't know.

I think that was a moment in time. What if it's a football league where Anthony Edwards is just the automatic QB? And it's a bunch of people that made the NFL. It's just Anthony Edwards chucking footballs. And nobody's allowed to touch

Anthony Edwards. He can't get hurt. There's no way for him to get hurt. Too dangerous. Regardless. Still too dangerous. Okay. Here's the other idea.

This is a little bit of a rejection of your premise. Yeah. Is this month, basically late July to football, like Thanksgiving morning, where no one wakes up and says, well, it's Thanksgiving morning. Let me get three eggs, some sausage and bacon.

Oh, like we use this time to refuel. This is the time you actually starve. You don't starve yourself, but you get hungry on purpose. Like, I'm not going to eat until two o'clock. Maybe, you know, you're just, it's like a miniature fast. And boom, there comes the turkey. Getting ready for late August. Here we go.

Get ready for football. And maybe this desert of sports, besides the regular season desert of championships, let's call it, maybe that's necessary. And that's what happens when football is there and you're ready for it. Football is the Thanksgiving turkey hitting the table. So you're preaching in the choir.

For the first time in 10 years. I'm taking off a significant amount of time from this podcast. I'm taking five weeks off. Five weeks. Taking five weeks off. You cleared that. Me. But when you looked in the mirror and said, can I take five weeks off there?

It should have been a part of you. I'm taking five weeks off from the podcast. And I'm going to continue to grind like I always did in the other 47 weeks. You know who loves this? Nephew Kyle. Super excited about it. Five weeks? Almost bursting into tears when I told him.

Yeah, five weeks. Are you putting some stuff on tape? I'll put a half-baked ideas thing on tape. Well, I mean, five weeks. It'll be fine. Everyone will be fine. Yeah. That's too long.

It's not too long. There's going to be nothing to talk about. We're going to be doing dumps. Do some half-baked idea. Do some half-baked idea. You have one half-baked idea before we go? They're not ready. They're like an eighth baked.

They're not good enough yet. Okay. Well, when I come back from my little mini hiatus, you'll have some half-baked. Yeah, they'll be over-baked. They'll be like burnt. We'll still be able to see you on

First Things First though. Every day. I'm taking, you know what I'm taking? Five days off. Five days.

That's it. And then we're back to the content. Delivering you the content that you need and deserve.

Kevin Wild, good to see you as always. When you ride transit, please be safe. Yeah, be safe. Because what you do, others will do too. Others will do it too. So don't take shortcuts across tracks.

Don't do that. In fact, just don't walk on tracks at all. Not at all. Trains move quietly, so you won't hear them coming. You won't hear them coming. See, safe riding sets an example. Yeah, an example for me. Because safety is learned.

It's learned. Okay, give it up. Give what up? Really? Really, really. This message is brought to you by Metrolinks. All right, Peter Schrager is here from NFL Network and Fox. The next time you and I talk, it will be very close to the NFL season.

Right now, we're entering the dog days and, uh, there's not a lot of stuff to talk about. And yet there is. So I don't know. It's not even mid July yet. Somehow we still have storylines. Usually we have moved into the,

this guy looks great. He's in the best shape of his life or watch out for this guy. Possible MVP. Sleeper team. Sleeper. So-and-so is so happy in his new home, a.k.a. Russell Wilson. And yet we still have some storylines.

So the first thing was the Baker Mayfield trade. Carolina finally gets him. Walk us through the thinking of the Panthers and how they played this. This deal was, the parameters were set months ago. And if you watch Good Morning Football, everyone would say, well, what's going to happen with Baker? Is there any chance he'd suck it up and go back to Cleveland? And the answer was no all along. And that came from both sides, Cleveland and Baker's side. Now, the Panthers, they were interested, but at a certain

cost. And the narrative yesterday, and especially on Twitter, was like, what a steal. The Panthers, okay. Baker's the number one guy. They had this deal done for two months, but they weren't going to pay more than the $5 million that they're going to end up paying them. So when it went from being the Browns would pick up $7 million to $8 million, finally, when it got down to $5 million, you look at the backup quarterbacks in the NFL, there are several that are making more than $5 million. And it was like, at that cost, and with the fact that Sam Darnold is still an uncertainty, yes, we'll make that trade. But this wasn't this amazing coup by the Panthers

or this great aggression. There was no market. There was literally, I mean, the Seahawks were not in the market and the Panthers held all the leverage on this as the Browns wanted to trade Baker. So at the end of the day, the Browns are paying Baker $10.5 million. The Panthers will pay $5 million. It'll be a one-year deal. Darnold's on a one-year deal. It's going to be truly a may the best man win. But Sam Darnold's

25, has the offense and is getting to know Ben McAdoo, the offensive coordinator before Baker. So I said that it's a true competition. And I was like, you know, everyone gives me the, I'm crazy. I'm carrying water. I'm carrying water for who? For Sam Darnold? No that it's a true competition. And I was like, you know, everyone gives me the, I'm crazy. I'm holding, I'm carrying water. I'm carrying water for whom? For Sam Darnold? No,

it's just, this is going to be one of the only true competitions in camp. And I'd say right now, it is not Baker's job to lose. It's Darnold's job to lose. Hmm. It's almost like NBA where, where teams just bet on the pedigree,

like the Warriors betting on Andrew Wiggins and hoping it was the situation and not the player. And they have two of these guys now. They have a guy who's the number one pick. And what was Darnold? Was he... Three. Yeah, three. It's the first time since the 1980 Raiders that had Plunkett and Dan Pastorini

that two players in the top three at that position are on the same squad. And it's from the same draft so i look i don't think they were overjoyed with what they got out of darnold i think there's still a book to be told but he's 25 years old they still think there's a future there and at five million dollars baker mayfield for a year it was like kind of why not and now matt corral who was drafted and was a guy that people liked before the draft he'll sit and watch and i think at the end of the season they'll assess either which one of them is going to be good enough between Baker and Donald or, all right, neither one of these guys are our guys for the future.

Let's give Corral a shot after a year of watching and learning. We've already spent too much time on this because neither guy is going to be good enough. That's the funniest thing about this. They set up this QB competition and it's what, a 10% chance. You're right. They strike oil with one of them i think baker at least we've seen him you know in the playoffs and competing and i think he brings some charisma stuff the bigger story to me with this is not carolina it's just everything i just it is a master class on how to completely fuck up a situation they make the deshaun trade which is

you know we had the gobert, which was terrible for different reasons for Minnesota, I think. They gave up 270 cents on the dollar and their odds on FanDuel right now are 36 to win the title. So you give up all this stuff, you're not even like a title contender. The Cleveland thing's different. They make

this trade that they gave away this incredible price. Covered this a couple weeks ago in this pod. They guaranteed his contract. They have no idea when he's going to play. And then they blew up their relationship with Baker, which it seems like they wanted to do. But ultimately, they had this guy under contract. They know he's at least semi-competent. They have to pay him. Now they're going to have to find another quarterback because it doesn't seem like there's any way Watson's playing this year. So they're spending all the money on Watson, even though it's only guaranteed for whatever this year. I know they rigged it.

They have to pay Mayfield $10 million to go away because they botched the relationship. And now they have to find a third quarterback. How do they botch the Baker relationship this badly? Because he's still under contract. He's still getting paid. Ultimately, it's his job. And if they're like, dude, sorry about all the stuff from before, but you got to come in. You're our starting quarterback. I don't understand how they had no leverage in that. Explain that to me.

Bridge was completely burned and Baker's a different breed. Everyone compares Baker and Jimmy Garoppolo in situations. They're very different guys. Jimmy is the ultimate, hey, it's okay, let's go. I just tunnel vision. Baker was scorched earth and did not want to return.

Demanded the trade, went on Instagram, aired it out. And I was like, okay, but at least he patched up because a rational thinking approach would be, bro, go in there, kick some ass, and then go start with another team next year

when your contract's up. Right. And it just never got to that point. And the Brown didn't want him either like from from everything i'm hearing and all the sources i have it was like once they went down this watson road it was like it's going to be the cleanest way and clean is not the term i would use in this situation but that baker can't be here like baker cannot be here in any way and we have to get rid of ourselves with baker and for a while there looked like they were holding strong and they're like, we're not paying him.

We're not going to trade him 50 cents on the dollar. A conditional fifth round pick. And they have to eat $10 million of the salary to get Baker Mayfield. And yet the Browns probably feel better this morning than they did two days ago because it's just, they're done with Baker and they can move on.

And they've already made their bed with Deshaun Watson. And you said you think he's going to be gone the whole season. I have no info that that's the case. That might be a six to eight week suspension. It might be the whole season. We still don't know. And the way they're looking at it is Jacoby Brissett. He'll be, he's there as a, as an ultimate backup quarterback and we'll deal with that. And when Watson's, I know, I know. And when Watson's back. I was his last fan. He couldn't even play a quarter successfully last season for the Dolphins. They were dying to let him at least be the stable backup who takes over

because they didn't trust Tua. And he couldn't even do that. He's going to be even worse for them. I don't know. I just feel like Baker's under contract. If he wants to get paid, he has to show up and perform. And what are they, going to the Super Bowl? they aren't going to the Superbowl with this team. If Watson's going to be at half the season or the whole season or whatever, I don't see any scenario where he

doesn't miss at least half the season. Then on top of it, you're acclimating them. You're trying to figure out the media fan base thing. It is the biggest distraction in the league right now with all the off court, all the off-field baggage. So I would have just done a staring game with Baker. To me, it just tells me that they didn't want to deal with it. I think that's right. So they paid him $10 million to go away, which is insane. $10 million to go away and to just rid themselves of that and focus on this problem instead and not have that looming. To focus on this much bigger distraction.

Much more giant colossal problem at $320 million or whatever they're paying him. And all the draft picks they lost on top of it and all the goodwill they burned with a lot of people who cared about that team and that organization. I don't think you can do worse than the Browns did for the last

four months. I really don't. I don't think you can do worse than the Browns did for the last four months I really don't I don't think you can do worse and it's a fascinating case study because Andrew Barry was on this and still is on this skyrocket of reputation as a GM he's one of the youngest GMs in the league he is a Harvard graduate and he's got Stefanski as a head coach

who's a Penn graduate I don't equate Ivy League to smart necessarily overall, but these are not dumb guys. They have an analytics department and they got... Were you just worried about Ivy League shaming? I was worried about it. I didn't want just the

opposite. I didn't want people to say, that means you Ivy League guys don't... The truth of the matter is, these aren't stupid people. Stefanski's a father. Barry's got a family. And, like, they knew what they were getting into with this. They didn't go into this blindly. And the Falcons were interested in Watson.

And the Panthers were interested in Watson. And the Saints were interested in Watson. And yet here we are, and we're heading towards, you know, middle of July. And this thing is still unresolved. Judge Robinson has done her due diligence on it. But the NFL still has not levied a penalty and is still keeping the door open for potentially more accusers.

Wait, and somehow Jenny Vrentis has investigated this better than anybody involved, which makes no sense. She's done an amazing job from a journalistic standpoint. But to your point, when you were interviewing,

I guess, Nora and whoever else, and Curtis that day, it's like the Browns, they did what they said was their due diligence, but Jenny's uncovering testimonies from actual women involved in this thing. The Browns found out what they wanted to find out, basically. I think that's fair to say. What's interesting is just you go on FanDuel, AFC North, Baltimore's plus 160,

Cincinnati's plus 180. The Browns are plus 280. Who is betting the Browns to win the division? Who are the people who are like at the bar with their buddies going, I'll tell you, you got to watch out for the Browns. Well, it's funny because you do look at, okay, take the quarterback position aside.

It's like quietly added Amore Cooper, right? Have Miles Garrett as a great defender. They've got the two, maybe the best running aside. It's like, quietly, added Amore Cooper, right? Have Miles Guerin as a great defender. They've got the two, maybe the best running back duo in the league. They've got a nice core and a good offensive line and a coach who won Coach of the Year a couple years back and a good front office, I'll think so. And it's like, this quarterback, this was their addition. Like, put all the chips in on Deshaun Watson,

and yet this quarterback's the one thing that's keeping everyone back from saying, I could even stomach this team, let alone say that they're the team that's going to win the AFC North. But football is, you know, it's cutthroat in that if he's given a six to eight game suspension and he's on the field by November, whether you can stomach it or not,

he's going to be starting at quarterback and he's going to be a guy who's going to be someone that people are going to have to stay up at night worried about having to defend him because he is a good quarterback. I think the Bengals. This could be the rare we lost the Super Bowl, but we actually might be back situation. Usually the Super Bowl loss, you go backwards. I don't think they will. They're pretty loaded and they added at that offensive line. They're bringing in Karras and Kappa

and they got Lyle Collins. And I'll tell you, Burrow, uh, right now is, and I want to say Newport beach by you training. And I know that like Justin Jefferson's there and Jamar Chase was there. Like Burrow is, and it's one of those deals where it's the,

nobody believes in us team. That was the, nobody believes in us team last year. Like, right. No one's like, somehow this worked out for them. They almost won the Super Bowl

and everybody's like, eh, which is great. Crowning the Bills, which we've talked about. Josh Allen's the MVP favorite. The Bills are the favorite the whole thing. Chiefs are going to be back better than ever without Tyreek Hill somehow. And the Bengals are kind of sitting there like, we did beat the Titans in their building

and we did beat the Chiefs coming down from 21-3. So I'm very, we did beat the Titans in their building. And we did beat the Chiefs coming down from 21 to three. So I'm very, very bullish on the Bengals. Even if Vegas is not at the moment. Jimmy G. Crazy. Crazy. This situation is going to drag on even more, I think.

So when can he play again, do you think? What are your sources saying? Next couple of weeks, the hope is. But Bill, he's down in Southern California training on his own, not with the team. Meanwhile, Trey Lance was there, the entire mini camp, the entire OTAs. And the, you know, we always talk about the aggregators and the Niners blogs put this up. He crushed it. He crushed it. And he, he's learning the playbook,

but not only that, like has a voice now. And with Jimmy gone, it's, it's not necessarily the Ewing theory, but it's the leadership theory where there was a vacuum where like, Jimmy wasn't going to be there as a 30 year old captain of the team and Trey trying to learn from him. It was Trey being handed the ball and being like, all right, be the guy now. Can I be dubious to some of this? Yes, of course. Of course.

Because we know it's the bingo card of this guy who's coming in. This young QB is coming in with his own bingo card. Yeah, he has a voice now. This is his team. The game's slowing down

for him. Unbelievable seven on seven the other day in practice. We've seen it. You're not going to believe how great...

How many times have we been... Didn't we do this with Trubisky even? Trubisky. Over and over again. Oh, Trubisky even over and over again. Oh, Trubisky.

Oh my God. Arnold. I mean, it's Sam Donald. I remember that summer Jets fans were like, oh my gosh, it's, it's there.

And, and, uh, we've heard it before, but you know, Lance, from what I gather, uh,

the hope is that he'll be the guy, but Jimmy, here's the deal. I think Jimmy would be fine coming back to San Francisco at this point than being traded to some place where he has no say on it. And he'll make $25 million. And if they want to knock that down, he could talk with his agents, whatever. But let it be an open competition there.

And I would want to think that Lynch and Shanahan, prideful men, they made this trade. They traded multiple. I would want to think that Lance would win out that competition as much as they appreciate what Jimmy's done. But Garoppolo has this amazing knack for winning over teammates and winning over jobs and finding a way. But I don't see a trade partner for Jimmy G right now. And I think it might be one of those deals, if anything. A training camp injury, a preseason game injury where Jimmy's...

It's like the Trent Green injury, something like that. Like, oh my God, we thought we could make the Super Bowl and now And now our guys, the thing with Jimmy G, I rarely recommend not working. As you know, I'm a hard worker. I believe in work. I believe in fulfilling your financial obligations. And yet if he's not a hundred percent healthy, wouldn't my goal, if I'm him, the team doesn't want me anymore. They want to move on to Trey Lance. They've made that clear. Don't you go into like, I got to look out for myself mode at some point during this whole thing and be like, look, man, I'm not a hundred percent healthy yet. Feeling good. I'm coming back, but I want to take this at my pace because, you know, I'm going to be a free

agent. I don't want to jeopardize my next deal, my next situation. And he could kind of rig it where he stays, he gets paid, he's the backup, and he's still kind of lingering over this team in case something bad happens. He still has the body at work where no one's going to question whether he can do it. He kind of already did this right before the combine when everything happens and trades are happening. I don't think the team was well aware of the timing of it he says i'm gonna get surgery on my shoulder making him virtually untradeable so by doing that in february before all the carousel happens like now jimmy garoppolo can only be traded for about 30 cents on the dollar as opposed to healthy jimmy garoppolo

maybe the washington commanders are like we'd rather have jimmy g than wentz or maybe the cults would say we'd rather have jimmy g than matt r maybe the Colts would say, we'd rather have Jimmy G than Matt Ryan. But I'm not taking Jimmy G on in that salary coming off a shoulder surgery that he just got without my doctors doing it, without me knowing exactly how he is. Well, the funny thing is, the Washington probably could have got him for free, right?

Yeah, in a way, sure. Would they even have to give him a pick? They would have taken the salary off San Francisco's hands. Everyone's happy. Very possible. But come common, what's happening? Instead, they're stuck with Wentz. Stuck with Wentz.

And we'll see. I mean, that organization right now, very interesting year. See how that all goes down from ownership on down. And to put your team's faith in Carson Wentz's hands after the past few seasons, a very bold, bold roll the dice.

The stats on him the last month of the season, somebody had a whole thing about this like a week ago. It's like staggeringly bad. MVP watch. Oh, by the way, what is your prediction for the Jimmy G thing? Where is he in November?

I think he's in San Francisco. I think he's in November. And I've been saying this, I know I'm not trying to say like, check the receipts and tomorrow he could be traded, but knowing what, what he, what he's all about and knowing what the Niners are all about,

like they're, they're front office and it starts with Lynch, but it goes to Adam Peters and Parag Murad. Like they need to win every negotiation. That's just any free agent who goes to the Niners, any trade, they do not lose. They view themselves as not the smartest guys in the room in the sense that's arrogance, but they're very savvy with this stuff. They're not going to take on Antonio Brown. They're not going to take on Odell Beckham and get robbed in a trade. They're going to be the ones that sit back and say,

we'll figure it out. They aren't going to trade Jimmy Garoppolo for 20 cents on the dollar just because. They won't. MVP watch. So we mentioned Alan is 7-1. You love MVP talk. I do. It's in July. No, no, it's all leading.

It's leading to a destination. I love it. Mahomes 8-1, Brady 8-1. Those are the three favorites along with Rodgers 10-1. Herbert 10-1. He's fifth. Okay. So I think you can learn some stuff from the betting, right?

So Herbert is now considered a top five MVP candidate. Burrow is 12-1. So there's more MVP buzz for Herbert than Burrow, at least on FanDuel. Russell Wilson, 14-1. I like it. Lamar's 20-1. Carr, 14 to 1. I like it. Lamar's 20 to 1. Carr, 25 to 1. Where's our guy up in New England, Bill?

Well, that's where we're heading. Mack Jones, 40 to 1. Let's go. 40 to 1. That's not a bad bet. Their division odds have dropped to plus 450. I mean, he's strong Chiseled chin now

Love it Starting to look like a Helmsworth brother Helmsworth? Helmsworth? Helmsworth? Starting to look like a Helmsworth brother I saw Thor Ragnarok got killed by the critics Richard Roper hated it but I love Matt Jones People will still like it All the same bingo card stuff

He's a different guy Oh my god They can't believe how good he looks People will still like it. All the same bingo card stuff. He's a different guy. Oh my God. They can't believe how good he looks. This is his team now. He's not intimidated by Belichick. New offensive coordinator drama. Maybe this is just Max offense.

Do we even need an offensive coordinator? It's all starting. There was some good, some good stuff about how much they've spent on the receiving core. They've spent more on receivers and tight ends for 2022 than any other team in the league.

Did you know that? It's like $72 million on receivers and tight ends. Can I add a little, let me add a little fuel to this fire. Yeah, please do.

Because I think you, myself, nephew Kyle, and maybe Kevin Will. I don't know. Kevin Wiles. Kevin Wiles is on there. Maybe there's four or five of us. Last year, he goes in there as this everyone kind of rolling their eyes,

this howdy-doody kid coming in, fifth quarterback taken, beats out Cam Newton in training camp, but not only beats him out, wins over the locker room. Cam Newton's one of the most popular guys in the locker room from the year before. And goes on that seven-win tear then kind of falls off. And in this offseason, Tom House has started off, then the personal trainer, then

the team stuff. And coming out of it, we had Johnny Smith on Good Morning Football, and he's like, Matt is... And it gets you fired up. And then you hear things from Kendrick Bourne and it's like... By the way, nothing gets me more fired up than the teammates raving about the QB when you have the QB. Who have no incentive to do so.

They could easily say, we like Mac, but for John... Yeah, they could be like, hey, he's a good guy. He's fine. The guy saying that this guy is goofy off-field and turns it on when the lights come on. I'm like, I like hearing that. Looks different. And from everything I hear from up there, like it is, they are very excited that you hear things like 40 to one or that we're doing segments on good morning football. Who's going to have the breakout second year season. And we're doing flips about Trevor Lawrence and

Zach Wilson and somehow Mac Jones, a pro bowler in year one, now having mastered the playbook and having mastered the locker room and being that guy and having better physical shape hasn't been mentioned. I feel very good about Mac Jones in year two, that year one wasn't a fluke, and number two, like the ceiling. I feel like he can get even better. They're plus 450 to win the division now in Fanville. Nephew Kyle texted me last week.

And I think he was really worried about my feelings about the Pats for this season. Because I went to some dark places with the defense. Yeah. How slow the linebackers were. Sure. How much Buffalo just beat the living shit out of them in that playoff game. And how much faster Buffalo seemed. And then the weird draft the Pats had.

I was like, we're going to go like 7-10. And letting Jackson walk out. That's a question mark. Yeah. So last week, Kyle was like, hey, are we really going to watch 17 Pat's games together if you don't believe in this team? He was going to do it anyway.

And I was like, Kyle, I believe. Good. I've talked myself into it. It took till July, but I have now talked myself into at least the Pats being a really fun offensive team. That will be, I think just better and more explosive offensively than people realize.

I have no idea what's going to happen to the linebackers. And are they going to have like a four to five? I was texting with Mina about this. Yeah. Is it just going to be like five D backs all the time? Are they going to have weird formations? Because they do not have enough competent linebackers. But other than that, I think I'm

pretty optimistic. The Chargers you mentioned earlier, always an interesting team in July and August. I spent a lot of time with Brandon Staley. Here comes the name drops. Everyone, you can skip ahead if you can't handle it. Sean McVay's wedding, it was great.

And I got to sit with Staley and my wife and his wife. We're sitting together. We're talking for a while. And his whole thing was like, Herbert is like this great. But the defense is what they focus on all offseason. And when you add Khalil Mack and JC Jackson and the Sebastian Joseph Day, it's like they felt like they got three really good players

to add to a defense that was getting better down the end. Chargers as a sleeper team is an annual tradition. You can't call them a sleeper team this year. They're not. They're on the radar. Did you see their first five games? What do we got?

Home Las Vegas. So there'll be no, I'm sure there'll be some Raider fans there or whatever. At Kansas City on a Thursday night, four days later. The first, the first Amazon game. Let's go.

Tough one. Oh no, your girl's not on that show. Jacksonville, home, at Houston, at Cleveland. If you can't be 4-1

or 3-2, that's the schedule you want. That feels like 4-1. That Thursday, week two, Kansas City. Kansas City on a Thursday night, there's always some weird shit happens. Chargers will be like a 6-point underdog, maybe 4-point underdog.

They beat them last year there. That could be a 5-0. Then their home Denver, home Seattle bye week, it's really stacked. Then you go through the rest of it at Atlanta. It definitely gets harder the second half of the season, but their first half,

pretty good schedule for them. My fear for them is I think a lot of people are going to be on that wagon. And they will be. It's a team with no home field advantage. It's a team that had a coach that did some of the strangest things we've seen in a few years last year. And I would hesitate to just go two nuts on them. But I do like them. I like them too. And then you look at the division and we did this

on Good Morning Football. Bill, what team would you predict is in last place in the AFC West? Ugh. I mean, you just by default

have to go with the Raiders. Yeah. Even the Broncos having not made the playoffs in seven years, just the Russell factor. The Raiders out of Devontae and Chandler Jones.

I'm not putting you on the spot. I worry about the top heavy part with the Raiders. The Raiders added Devontae and Chandler Jones. I'm not putting you on the spot. It's hard. I worry about the top-heavy part with the Raiders. When you have those rosters where you have the seven guys. You start listing Redfield and Waller. Yeah, they missed a lot of draft picks the last few years. So I would worry about that. I think the Chiefs are an interesting...

Fascinating. I could see them taking a step back team. It's by far the most fun division this year. It's such a good division. You could make a case either way for each team. I was in Kansas City too, and I was speaking with their general manager and he was going through their wide receiver room.

And Veach, who is one of the most innovative guys, he's like, we have guys like Justin Watson, who not everyone knows who that is, but he was on the Buccaneers practice squad. He came in and played really well in minicamp. We have Justin Ross, this kid who's undrafted out of Clemson and is coming off an injury. He played really well. Like they've got 12 wide receivers that are gonna be vying for about six spots. And at no point did it feel like,

like they're losing sleep on the Tyreek Hills. And as Tyreek Hills doing podcasts and comparing to, uh, to my homes, like they've already flipped the page and the rest of us on the media are like, well, the Tyreek Hills thing, I feel like they've already said, okay, well, we'll just have to change our offense a little bit and we'll be just fine. And the chiefs, a little more running.

Yeah. And for them to not be the hunted, but to be the hunters, like that's a scary prospect too. He got through the odds on Fando for the AFC and it's the bills are the favorites plus three 50. And then it goes chiefs, chargers,

Broncos, Ravens, Bengals. The Bengals are the sixth highest. It's crazy. Colts, Titans 15 to one. Titans, the one seed last year. Yeah, you can make a case that they could take a huge step back. Cleveland 20 to one, which is insane. Miami 21, then New England 22 to one.

Vegas 25 to one. Wow. Dolphins that low is interesting too, because I think there's a huge hype train for the Dolphins right now. Yeah. So just going backwards, like Bills, Chiefs, Chargers, I think I trust those three to at least be like nine to 10 games. I don't even know if I totally trust the Chiefs. I don't know about the Chargers. We talked how good they are on paper.

Maybe it's just the Bills. Then Broncos, Ravens. I would say the only teams I 100% trust from the AFC would be the Bills and the Bengals. And that's why I was shocked that the Bengals were sixth highest odds because I don't think they got worse. I think Burrow is like, I think he's got it.

He's not going to be like, Oh my God, I can't believe we made a Superbowl. That was so cool. Like that dude thinks he's the best player in the league. He does. And he's got a whole. Yeah.

So unless they have some injury, but you could say that about any team. So anyway, we've talked about this too, with the Bengals, like their windows now, because whether they want to preach that they're going to pay all the, like,

it's just not historically speaking, the Bengals are not going to be able to pay all of these guys. They've done better in free agency and they've taken care of their own. But all those guys, whether it be Chase or Boyd or Higgins or Burrow, someone's not going to be back in the next couple of years. So this is the window. And I think they realize that. And if they've got to capitalize now. Before you go,

we're going to play a game called Elite QB or not an Elite QB. I want to see exactly how many Elite QBs we have. Okay. This is the hackiest segment possible, but I actually, I really like the cons

because we always, Rossello and I always did the top, top 20, top five players. Yep. So maybe we'll do top 50 and top five QBs, but I think we would both have Allen and top 50 and top five QBs. But I think we would both have Allen and Mahomes and Brady and Rodgers and Herbert.

So there's five. Yep. I think Burrow is six for me. In this order or just in the pool? No, I'm just going through. I'm not ranking. I think Stafford has to be there because he won a Super Bowl.

Agreed. And it was fantastic in big spots down the stretch. Yep. I think Russell Wilson has to be there, but I also feel like he's got to kind of prove it to us again this season. A little bit. Because I don't feel like he was a league QB last year. He wasn't, but I would go back to Stafford last year

and Brady the year before. There is a bump when these guys get revitalized, and I would give him the benefit of the doubt, knowing what he's doing with Hackett right now, that yes, Russell's going to be great this year. So how many is that? That's eight.

That's eight. What do you do? I'll give you a name. I'm going to keep going. I want to play host. All right. Lamar. Yes.

I'll say yes. I think he has to be, he has to prove he's almost like Russell Wilson. He's getting legacy status for it, but I would like to see it this season, please. Do you feel like with Lamar, like I,

for some reason in my head, I'm like, Oh, he missed 12 games last year. He only missed five games last year. And they were like one in four with him out. But I feel like it wasn't healthy Lamar. And there was COVID stuff.

And like, I'm going to give him a mulligan on last season and say over the course of the first three years, he was absolutely fantastic. Yeah, I think it's the resume at this point, but I need him to show me again. All right, so there's nine. Dak Prescott and Curt Cousins to me have to be,

you could have both or neither, but you can't pick one because they have the exact same stats. They have the exact same career resume. And to me, there's no difference between them. Other than that, one plays for a famous team and the other plays for a famously tragic team. But you can have both or neither.

I'm not allowing you to take one. I'm going to say both. And I would say more on the balance of Dak and knowing how he's respected around the league. And if you talk to these GMs and coaches, they all put Dak in that conversation. There's very few skeptics on Dak. Cousins can go here or there, but I think within the league, Dak is looked at as not only a more reliable quarterback than Cousins and not only that guy

who can win you games, but also in the building, the leader, that unquestioned leader. And I'll put Dak in that conversation. And I'll give you Cousins too. I think Cousins is a... Elite's a tough word with Kirk Cousins, but I would say he's in that top 10. All right, I'm not going to approve either of those applications yet. Okay. Kyler Murray, to me,

is the second toughest call in this whole list because I'm still alarmed by the playoff game. I'm still alarmed by every season they tail off in the second half. And I just, are you a fantasy QB? Are you a QB that I can actually win a couple of playoff rounds with? I have no idea, which brings us back

to the definition of the elite QB. What does that mean? Does an elite QB mean I can be a playoff team if you're my QB? Or does it mean if I have a decent team around you, I'm guaranteed to win 10 to 11 games and maybe sniff around conference finals? We've never really

established the precise definition. So if it's just the, yeah, okay, cool, we could go 10 and 7 with you, then that means Dak and Kirk and Kyler and I think Mac Jones, I think all those guys are in there.

To me, it feels like the cutoff line because Mac's the last piece of this. And fiscally, there are these discussions being had for all these guys because the second contract usually ends up now being $40 million. And you're like, if you're the elite guy, there's no question. We do this. We sign the deal. And with Allen and Mahomes, it was done, done, done. And Lamar, the Ravens want to pay him.

With Dak, there was a bit of a wait. With Cousins, of course, he got his. But Kyler, the Cardinals have not forked over that $40 million offer yet. Maybe that's how you figured this out. I think it is. But all of them usually get it. They usually get it. But Kyler didn't get it.

Not yet. He's got a whole season. Did Lamar get it. But Kyler didn't get it. Not yet. He's got a whole season. And he... Did Lamar get it? He still got it. Lamar hasn't gotten it yet. They've offered it. They want him to take it.

He hasn't accepted it. He wants to ride it out a little bit longer and see what the next contract is so he can top that one. Lamar is truly a maverick in this thing where he's rolling the dice and saying, I've got an offer in hand, and yet I think I can make even more,

which is fascinating. So then Watson, I guess, technically offer in hand, and yet I think I can make even more, which is fascinating. So then Watson, I guess, technically is, even though we're not sure if we're going to see him again. Yeah, I don't know. Because the Texans gave it to him before all this stuff. So yes, he's an elite guy. Tannehill,

that's where it gets dicey. So I guess basically, the real way to define elite QB is would somebody blink if they had to pay them $30 million a year? Because that's a going rate for an elite QB, right? 35. 35. 35.

So it's probably somewhere between 10 to 15 guys, depending on how desperate. Like Jalen Hurts to me is not an elite QB because I don't think anyone's paying him $35 million. I don't think Jimmy G is. No. Matt Ryan, not anymore. Not anymore. You go around the board.

Lawrence, not yet. Not yet, but the expectation is he will be. Obviously, Trubisky wasn't. He didn't get it and then they drafted Pickett.

So that should be instead of elite QB, which again, we said at the top is super hacky. The $35 million 35 column yeah it's like the would you blink at 35 million a year for this guy because that should be the definition yeah that's the market and tannahill makes just a shade under that you know and then if the titans

of tannahill's contracts up right now and they just drafted willis in the third round are you going to re-up him are you going to give him 35 million i think tannahill has to prove it this season despite being a one seed and and NFL comeback player of the year and Pro Bowl year after Pro Bowl year. I still don't think the Titans would give him $35 if they were forced to right now if they were asked about it. In basketball, we have max guys.

Are you a max guy or you're not a max guy? Football, maybe we just call it max guy and the max would be $35 million a year, which to carry in a salary cap is pretty brutal. Yeah. So Derek Carr proved that he's an NFL max guy. They gave him a second contract and they tried to lock him down

and that's it. So he is. He played a card that I appreciated. He's a total straw man. He's like, nobody's talking about us, not the Raiders. And I'm like, dude, everyone's talking about you. Come on. You trade it for Devontae Adams.

The expectation for him and Adams are so high right now that I don't know. I don't know. I'm curious to see it because I think we can't underestimate how good Aaron Rodgers is and now Carr has to match that.

Well, I wish I had framed that as who are NFL max guy quarterbacks. But now we did it retroactively. We did it. Is there anyone we haven't included? Trying to think. No.

We hit everybody. I'm sure there's going to be one fan base. What about Jared Goff? All right, Schrager. Next time I see you, we'll be able to sniff the football season. Justin Watson. Fantasy sleeper. Justin Watson. That's what we'll be talking to sniff the football season. Justin Watson. Fantasy sleeper.

Justin Watson. That's what we'll be talking about. There we go. I can't wait. Enjoy the summer. See you in August. You are the man, Bill. Enjoy.

All right. One of our favorite actors died today. Jimmy Kahn, age 82. I thought it was like a hoax at first because his Twitter account broke the news and I didn't know what was going on. And then, you know, producer Craig told us

and I was just but then it turned out it was true. Brian Koppelman is here. We lost one of the true icons here, BK. Man, as we were saying the other day, I mean, if he'd only ever been sonny corleone he would have left just a crazy indelible mark one of the one of the greatest filmic performances

ever um and of course that's not the only thing that he ever did. It's a huge loss. And the guy was, he was just really, really singular. He was always, we were talking about this, I mean, he was a great actor and also always James Caan. You're right. I thought that today. I actually tweeted it, I think. He was just a one-on-one.

Once he faded out of his leading man prime, it's not like somebody else came in and was like, okay, now I'm going to get all the James Caan parts. There were no James Caan parts. If James Caan wasn't in it, the part didn't exist. Well, that's why even in a small thing like Bottle Rocket, that little

part he does in Bottle Rocket, it's like, it has such impact because it's James Caan. And there was this like, you know, like Wesley Morris would do this way better part he doesn't bottle rock and it's like it has such impact because it's james codd right and there was this like um you know like wesley morris would do this way better to conceptualize it in this way but like you know he had this amazing thing which he was a true tough guy but there was also deep inside of him obviously something sensitive something that saw humanity. And so you had this great duality, which was he wasn't merely a thug ever. You know, the gambler, I'm sure the gambler's huge for you

like it is for me. And it was the first movie like that I ever saw. I mean, there was nothing like that before that movie. And that scene of him playing the one-on-one against that guy at the beginning of that movie and then going back to it and the way that he is able to capture what it feels like to have so much on the line. Truly, and you talked about,

you mentioned this on the Misery podcast with me. Which we just put up three days ago, weirdly. The sheer physicality that he brought to these roles where he didn't just act with his mind. That guy was fully in it bodily, like 100% in it. And we talked about just the way he was built, those shoulders, the biceps that he had, the way he walked like an athlete. Not a lot of actors truly walk like an athlete. And he did.

Like he owned the space he was in all the time, right? And that was what our friend Goldman, who wrote Misery, was saying about why he liked James Caan in that role because he was confined to a bed. And he was like, this is a guy who normally was crawling off the walls

with every character he played. Now he's just stuck in one place. And he thought the energy of that really worked. I was thinking, by know, by the mid seven days, I'm starting to go to movies with my dad. I remember he took me to the sting when I was like four, but we only child, there was a lot less to do. And your parents would just bring you to the movies.

And it just felt like there were, there's certain actors from that decade that just seemed like these gods. They seem like these big screen movie stars, you know, like Clint. It was like one name was like Clint and Burt, Newman, Redford. I felt like Jimmy Conn was like one of those guys. He wasn't maybe the super duper star on that top, top level, but he was right underneath. And when he was in the right role, you knew it. And there was like a testosterone element to him that I think kind of

weirdly ties into that era. These, like I think of like testosterone performances, like Burt Reynolds in Deliverance is just like a testosterone performance, right? He's an athlete in Paro,

but he's not even an athlete in the movie, but this athletic guy in peril who's just got to figure it out you have confidence but he seems normal and that's what the Jimmy Conn thing

to me that he always figured out was he always felt like you could hang out with him and have a drink with him but you also wouldn't want to fuck with him

and I don't know how he navigated it but he always had it 100% I mean when you talk about those guys who make you go to the theater for them

you and I have talked on a few podcasts about doing a rollerball rewatchables yes we're gonna do at some point this summer definitely now why did we go to that movie as kids why did we make our parents take us to that r-rated movie and sneak us in there was because uh him in that, like the idea of that game, which looked incredible, but that guy at the center of it made it feel and seem real. You believe because of that athletic thing, like you're seeing it as testosterone,

but I, and I think of it as the swagger that great natural athletes have. When you, you know, you know that thing when you're getting ready to play pickup, suddenly you see somebody walking even in the gym and you're like, I want that guy on my team be just because of the way they move. Uh, I see it on tennis sports. You could just be like, Oh, that's going to be a tough guy. And James Kahn moved that way. And look, uh, I don't know if like the couple of year age difference between us makes Brian's song a bigger deal for me,

but like it is the same big deal for you too. That comes out when I'm five years old, so I'm sure my dad showed it to me when I was seven or eight. I must have watched that movie, what, 20 times as a kid or something like that? I think it's

one of the two great sports TV movies ever, that one and Jericho Mile. It's probably the first one. Well, definitely not the John Cappelletti story as he's did for Joey. That's definitely not one of the great ones. You could make a case

it's the first modern sports movie. Even though it's super old, you watch it, it feels rooted in the late 60s. I get it. But it was incredibly rewatchable. It was on all the time. It was made for TV, so it didn't have to be edited in any way.

And as soon as he gets sick, first of all, there's something about him where you're just like, I fucking love this guy. And if you don't know what's going to happen, then it's like, wait, he's sick? Is he going to get through this? Then it's like, wait, is he going to die? And it's

just one of the better ones. That moment that they cut in there and he's got his cursed finger up at the tumor coming back, like it is, what a great actor's choice. And you're so invested and connected to him. And that run of, you know, Brian's song, Into the Godfather, which obviously just blows him up as this huge

star. And then The Gambler, which is this incredible act of performance. And then for that brief period of time... And then Roll the Ball right after that. Yeah, and he was one of those guys then. He has four performances in the span

of six years that felt like they were like 12 performances. Because you start with Brian's song, you go to Sonny Corleone, which we don't have to redo the Sonny Corleone conversation here, but it's just this one of a kind character. You're afraid of other people for him. You're just like, oh, don't make Sonny mad.

You believe that he could have sex with anybody in the movie. You want him to figure out the Don thing. You really don't want him to screw it up. He's also like the right, the father-son dynamic with him and Brando is perfect. Like Brando gets mad at him and you buy it that Sonny kind of lays down, right? Because it's like, oh, he's a son too, but he's a brother. He's a son. He's playing all these different parts in the same role. And you're crushed when he dies. Crushed. It's all time crushed.

You're crushed when he dies. I still get upset. 50 years later. It's like, damn, they should have done the alternate take where he just ducks all the bullets. So he's got those two, goes right to the gambler.

And then he goes to Jonathan Oh and Rollerball which I still think is one of the great sports movies ever made I think it's one of the great sports movie performances ever

I don't want to blow I don't want to blow it all out before we do the pot but Rollerball is a fucking classic there's a reason you and I both

love it so much and have brought it up to each other so much over the last fucking 25 years or whatever because it for what it is, it's just incredible. And he gets like, okay, that moment when he's talking to the big boss guy. So he's not just an athlete, but he's a guy who's yearning. And maybe that's part of it is like, he always was as a character kind of saw that there was a better life out there that he could grab. If he could just be a character kind of saw that there was a better life

out there that he could grab. If he could just be a little smarter, a little bit better, always sunny, like from Sonny Corleone and the gambler and rollerball. It's like he, he was smart enough. The characters he played,

uh, to, to see there was something better, but not quite smart enough to get there. And it was very touching all the time to be, well, it peaks with thief, which is six years later. But we did that on the rewatchables, me and Chris. It was a one for us.

Not everybody's seen it, but it was Michael Mann's second movie. Same kind of thing. Same kind of physicality, but this time he's breaking into stuff and there's this precision, but Michael Mann insists that he has to learn how to break into safes and stuff like that. So you have Khan with this weird intensity channeled into these little tasks, but you also have to believe him in the shootout.

That was probably his last great leading man role because then, let's be honest, the late 70s and the 80s were not kind to Jimmy Khan. He had some demons. But then guys like Wes Anderson started noticing honest the late 70s and the uh in the 80s were not kind to jimmy kahn he well he had a demon but he but then guys like wes anderson started like like noticing in james gray what like and chris mcquarrie all these really important you know young at the time like young um filmmakers were like i can use what that guy has and so in the mid 90s there's this big comeback for him uh you know uh and the yards if people haven't seen The Yards,

like, that's an awesome movie. And his performance in Way of the Gun is fantastic. And Bottle Rocket is like this amazing movie. It is a small part in. And then I never watched the TV show. But I mean, it's amazing that that guy had this like seven-year run. The Pro Edition or whatever. Yeah, but he also had The Program,

which is a very flawed college football movie that I think people like. He's not great in it. And then Elf was the other one where- Of course, hilarious. For the kids, he became the guy from Elf. But I think you look at him and John Cazale specifically. John Cazale only made five movies

because he died tragically, right? And his IMDb is still the greatest IMDb of all time. But that con run is the same thing. Like when you can have a run like that, it's almost like sports. If you have the six year run of parts and characters like that, the rest of it almost doesn't matter.

And the fact that he hung around with the kind of life that he led, that he hung around until 2022 is kind of incredible. Like there's a 50 year Godfather anniversary photo that he led that he hung around until 2022 is kind of incredible. Like there's a 50-year Godfather anniversary photo that he's in. And it's Coppola and Pacino and all those guys. It's amazing.

It's basically everybody but Brando. Yeah, I mean, look, it's like if a guy writes two perfect sports books, he never writes another one. He still had that run. Yeah. He still had that run

of writing two great sports books. You know what I'm saying? Well, what's funny... That's you I'm talking about. I was ignoring you. I wasn't even going to listen to it. You're such a dick. We talked about how he's a 101.

You know how we know he's a 101? Because they kept remaking the movies that he was awesome in and they were always disappointing. They remade The Gamble with Wahlberg. They remade Rollerball, which was an absolute atrocity with Chris Pine and James Coyne.

Both, by the way, do a really likable act. Yeah, but you know what? That's a really great point because both LL and Wahlberg, huge stars, totally likable, great, and they could not make those things come alive. How about this? They remade Brian's song. I forgot that. huge stars, totally likable, great. And they could not make those things come alive.

How about this? They remade Brian's song. I forgot that. At some point, they're going to remake The Godfather. It will happen after all of us are old and we can't fight. I think The Offer is the closest that they're going to come. And The Offer is totally entertaining. But that's the closest that they're going to come.

I don't know. I feel like they're going to redo it. They could remake Rollerball again. And I think if they did it correctly, it could be tying in all this stuff in 2022 and wherever the world's going. That might be an interesting movie. Levine and I would stupidly take on that challenge. I mean, I would stupidly try and I know I,

I think it'd be very difficult, but I would totally stupidly try. Yeah. I don't want to step on the roller. I don't want to step on the rollerball pod, but I do think that movie's... I think when a movie's 50 years old, I'm ready to at least discuss the remake. Except for maybe The Godfather. That's it. And ignore that there was one. That movie's old. I still love it, but yeah,

it's old. I get it but yeah it's old I get it like I feel like Jaws is untouchable there's some untouchables that is if I can still enjoy them now you can't touch them The Godfather

can't be touched look I think that the thing is it's funny you know yes of course James Caan

isn't Robert Redford no and to say it isn't fair. But on the other hand, Sonny Corleone is up there or maybe surpasses anything that Redford ever did. It's certainly up there. I mean, Sundance. He played Sundance Kid and Three Days of the Condor and whatever. But Sonny Corleone is as

great and as important and as exciting and as memorable and as singular a movie performance as has ever been put down on screen. And one guy did that. And that guy is James Caan. Well, that's the thing. If you go Mount Rushmore for best characters he played,

you'd have to have Sonny Corleone, obviously. You'd have to have Jonathan Oh. I think you have to have Brian Piccolo. And then the fourth one is either Frank from Thief or the guy from The Gambler, depending on which movie you like more. But that has to probably be the top four. I would say The Gambler is a more important movie to me,

but Thief is the one. You'd have to go with Thief, probably. But if you really passionately made a Gambler case, I would say Gambler is a more important movie to me, but Thief is the one. You'd have to go with Thief, probably. But if you really passionately made a Gambler case, I would accept it. But just those four characters, which James Caan is just dripping all over each character, right? This isn't De Niro as Jake LaMotta

or De Niro as Rupert Pupkin, like becoming a different person. As you said earlier, James Caan was always James Caan in the movie in some way. He wasn't going to veer too far away from James Caan. But those four characters, you could put against any guy from that era. I was thinking the testosterone one. Another one was, remember that Clint Eastwood movie?

What was it? Every Which Way But Loose with the ape? Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. Where it's basically just Clint in a sleeveless t-shirt, just kind of driving around a Chuck. He's doing bare knuckle fights. and that's the plot of the movie. And it was fucking great. They made a sequel, but it was like, they don't,

nobody has charisma like that anymore. I guess maybe now you just put a Marvel cape on him. Two things not to leave out, I think. One, who he was in the seventies, meaning the way hanging with Jim Brown and everyone else at the Playboy Club and doing those, the greatest, one of the best Playboy interviews ever. Yeah. And just living this crazy life that he lived.

You know, when you talk about the 70s wasn't as great for him as an artist. You know, it probably had to do with this life that he was living, kind of in a huge way that like those other actors weren't. And we got to shout out the fact that not many people who are as big stars as James Kahn have a kid who's done as much as Scott Kahn. And you got to shout out the fact that the genes were so strong and whatever James Kahn did is that Scotty Kahn is out there, you know, number one on the call sheet of one of the biggest television shows, hugely great in the oceans movies, a filmmaker in his own right. And like a walks around, like it's just a smaller version of, of his pop.

And, uh, Scotty's a great guy too. And I feel really bad for him, uh, today, you know, I got to work with him on, on oceans 13, but I have to say like, um, it's awesome. And I, I saw them together once. Um, I think at an art show of Scott's, I think James Conn showed up. And what an amazing thing that he got to see his son achieve those incredible heights too. Very rare.

You mentioned how the Playboy Club stuff. James Conn, if you go back to the people that really lived it up during an era when, I don't think people knew cocaine was that bad for you, at least for a little while. And just in general, the parting rules were totally different. And you look at the IMDBs of some of those people and there's just years missing.

And there can be reasons, right? Like some people, Pacino was doing on Broadway for a couple of years. And there's some actresses, same thing. But James Caan was like living such a hard life that his career is almost like a David Thompson type situation, right?

It's a great analogy. Honestly, brilliant. It should have been like 12, 15 years of rollerball movies like that, but it ended up being six, seven. David Thompson's an amazing comparison. I love that comparison. Our guy. Or Bernard. I mean,

Bernard was able to get it back a little bit like James did. But yeah, it's, I think there was some late 70s, early 80s casualties

in every aspect, right? Sports, movies, music, comedy, you name it. But Jimmy Conn,

like, he talked about it. You got the sense he had a great time, though. Like, when you watch his, he's pretty unapologetic.

I didn't know him. I shook his hand once. I didn't know him at all. Yeah. But you got the on he's pretty unapologetic i didn't know him i shook his hand once i didn't know him at all um yeah but you got the sense that he was unapologetic about public thing in a great in a kind of great way um and uh and i hate the idea that you're not gonna be able to see him on screen anymore uh it sucks like uh look, at least Duvall and Pacino are still alive. But most of the rest of that, and Diane Keaton, Talia Shire, but most of the rest of that cast is not alive anymore. Well, you think he made probably the most rewatchable movie ever

and he's the most fun character in it. That's not bad. That's like a championship ring. But yeah, I was, uh, I think he had one of the higher approval ratings of anybody. Cause the other thing is some of these guys, they age and it, it starts getting weird with,

you know, like Burt Reynolds, I think had a pretty weird last like 15 years. Right. And a lot of, for a lot of different reasons. And you going down the line, Clint has been able to just,

he's just directing movies. He's kept his head down and he's kind of added to his career. So it can kind of go any way after they hit their apex. And I think for him, he had the apex, whatever happened, happened after that.

And then he kind of moved into a really fun next phase. That was okay. He had the full comeback. And look, even though neither of us watched Las Vegas, like most people who had that career

in the 70s don't get the five-year run on a television show that people love. Even if it wasn't my show, but I got to respect that that guy showed up because most of those people, like you're saying casually, that guy showed up every day, learned all his lines, and delivered on a show that

a lot of people loved that ran forever. And he did it in his 70s. That's crazy. That's like true late era athlete stuff. Look, really hard to keep performing at that high level for that long.

And especially when you've had those high moments that you're talking about. And you've had some long moments that you're talking about. And you've had some long nights and some long nights. And that's the other thing. What was interesting about the later part of his career is he's kind of wearing the career just in the way he looks, you know,

he just looks like a guy who had some fun during the day. Anyway, we're going to miss him. And that worked in certain things. Yeah. We're going to miss James Caan. And thanks for having me on to talk about him. The Godfather, as you know, you know, movie means the most to me of any movie.

So even though I think The Godfather 2 is the best movie of all time, The Godfather remains the one that means the most. And at the center of that movie, for most of that movie, before it becomes Michael's movie, is James Caan. Yeah, when we did the rewatchables becomes Michael's movie, is James Caan.

Yeah, when we did the rewatchables for Godfather 1, we made that case. It's one of the best pieces of pop culture created of the last 50 years. But Godfather 2 is probably the best movie of the last 50 years. It's pretty interesting how the two of them book any chance. Yes, I was so glad to get to do Godfather 2 with you to make that case,

but it doesn't diminish my love for the Godfather at all. The Godfather is still the most important in most ways because of what it means. All right, man. Thank you so much for having me on to talk about James Caan. We'll reconvene for a rollerball.

And then I'm sorry we didn't get Nadal Kyrgios, but Kyrgios Yokoovic should be pretty good. That'll be a great match. It'll be fascinating. All right, dude. Talk to you soon. All right. See you.

All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Brian Koppelman and Peter Schrager and Kevin Wilds. Thanks to Kyle Creighton for producing. Thanks to Steve Cerruti and Dylan Burke as well. I will see you on Sunday night. I don't have feelings

within on the wayside I'm a person never I don't have feelings