The Bill Simmons Podcast - The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

Episode Date: March 20, 2025

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons talks about seeing Luka Doncic in person and the unique buzz he is able to bring to a Lakers arena (0:00). Next, Bill talks with Todd McShay about his NFL Mock Draft 2.0, piecing together the puzzle of the top four picks, Abdul Carter vs. Travis Hunter, a really good RB class, top 10 predictions, and more (11:48). Finally, Bill is joined by SI’s Chris Mannix to discuss the Boston Celtics being sold for a record $6.1 billion, Wyc Grousbeck curiously remaining as CEO and governor of the Celtics for three years, speculation on future roster spending, a new Celtics arena, a quick boxing update, and more (53:22). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Todd McShay and Chris Mannix Producers: Kyle Crichton and Chia Hao Tat The all-new, fully electric Audi Q6 e-tron is a new way to experience driving. Learn more at audiusa.com. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by a fan dual sports book. So I went to the Lakers game last night. It was my first Luka Donchich in-person experience. I got to see some of the number 77 jerseys. Did I look around and wonder, are there more 77s than 23s in the audience? I might've looked at a couple sections and wondered about it, but, um, something cool really happened during the game. Luka came out, he always tests these first quarters.

And this is something he always did in Dallas too. You kind of want to watch the first quarter of a Luca game because you never know what the ceiling is going to be. Like they, like at some point he's going to score 75 points in a game. It's going to happen. And he usually tests that first quarter to see if how much he's feeling it. So he does it in this Lakers game. They're playing Denver.

There's no Yocage. There's no Murray. Cause God forbid you go to an NBA game and see all the stars on both teams. There's no LeBron either. Luca comes out. He scores 20 of the first 33 points and you could feel a buzz building in the arena that is the sound you only get to hear when this is happening with Curry. When Curry's hitting

threes. You go back in time, like when Kobe was feeling it some nights, when Michael Jordan was feeling it some nights. It's the rarest sound you get at a basketball game where everybody's like, holy shit. You start looking at the scoreboard. So with like four and a half minutes left, the Lakers had 33 points and he had 20. And now everybody's like out of their minds. They just can't, Oh my, is he going to, could he score a hundred?

Could he get third in the first quarter? Of course, from that point on, um, he goes down, he's, he's stunk in the second quarter, he wasn't in the third quarter either. They, they win easily cause the nuggets had nobody, but the buzz in the arena. And I've been going to Laker games. I moved here in November, 2002. The only other time I felt it at a Laker game like that was when Colby was playing. Um, and I remember the first time I moved to LA in mid November and I went to a

Laker game, maybe two weeks later, somebody brought me, I'd never been to a Laker game before, you know, grew up going to Celtic games, East coast my whole life, just had always hated the Lakers, hated the show time, never really understood it. And I go to this game and the thing that jumped out to me, it was Kobe and Shaq, it was, you know, that was right after they'd won the three Pete, they lose them that 0-3 season, but it's Kobe and Shaq, it's, you know, typical, really good home game. The thing that jumped out to me, just sitting and Shaq. It's, you know, typical, really good home game.

The thing that jumped out to me just sitting there, it was like, oh my God, these fans love Kobe. Like they love him. And it was my big takeaway from the night. Like, and there's reasons for that, right? He's drafted by the team. He's a teenager. They get to watch him go through the stages.

Then they win titles with him. Shaq shows up from Orlando. He'd been there. I don't know. It for four years in Orlando comes to Lakers. So he's a little bit of a hard gun, kind of like LeBron now. Um, and they love both them together, but they really love Kobe. And you could feel that during the rest of the run, you get, especially the

Oh six season, I remember going to a bunch of games that year. Um, it was after the trial, they weren't very good, but he just single-handedly scores 35 points a game. And just at some point after everything that happened with him in Colorado, um, it, it changed the tenor of the relationship of the fans with him in a way that people were like, this is our guy, we are sticking with him through thick and thin shacks gone, our team's not going to be very good like, this is our guy. We are sticking with him through thick and thin. Shaq's gone.

Our team's not going to be very good, but this is our guy. And you could really feel it that 06 season. And the only time I can remember with a basketball player was Bird with the Celtics, where it was just like, 100% approval rating. Everybody's all in. This is our guy. We believe he can do anything.

And I felt like Kobe got to the point with the fans. Really in the mid-2000s. We believe he can do anything. And I felt like Colby got to the point with, with the fans really in the mid two thousands, you could feel it the most. Um, and there was always buzz with him and that year was the year, you know, that was the year that, uh, that he had that huge Toronto game, the 81, but in general, he was a threat to do whatever night after night after night, LeBron as great as he is was always like a totality of what he was doing. Like the, you know, if you love basketball, how do you not absolutely love what he's doing, but the ultimate LeBron game would be like 32 points, 15 assists, 12 rebounds.

It's a little like Jokic. You know, we don't, we're not going to tell our grandkids we were at a game where Jokic had 30, 20 and 15. It's amazing to watch. There's something different when somebody might have the chance to really go off. It's the rarest thing in basketball and there was that feeling in there for a couple of minutes. So it was, it was that plus, you know, there's performance with him where

Los Angeles just makes sense as a team that he plays for. He's working the crowd at one point in the first quarter, some guy in red, he got fouled and Luca has 20 at that point. He gets fouled. The guy, this dumb ass with the drinks like ball, don't lie. And Luca hears it and he turns around and he starts talking to the guy, talking shit to him. And now he's just interacting with this whole section.

He does things that I think are pretty rare from a basketball standpoint. He does hear the crowd. He does interact with people. He does talk shit. He talks shit to the refs. He talks shit to everybody he's playing against. Like he almost got into it at one point with Peyton Watson and you're watching. It's like, Oh, watch out.

Lucas piss now. Um, he just feels like he belongs at LA. And that was my big takeaway. I was thinking about like, if you're going to have the perfect Laker for central casting, you'd want somebody who's a little polarizing, which Luca is right. Great player. Hasn't won the title yet. Little out of shape.

Doesn't really play defense. We'll have quarters where he just looks terrible. Then a quarter where he's awesome. And there's like always the potential of something more. And he's still great. He's still one of the five best players in the league, but it's like, ah, I wonder what else is there. So you have that, uh, you have the performance aspect, which

Kobe was unbelievable at and LeBron's great at too, but Kobe, um, there was a demeanor to him at these games, especially as he really, uh, bought into it. That was just awesome. You have the no ceiling in any game you go to with Luca, which I think is as rare as it gets. And it's the thing that I think made Curry so special the last 10 years. It was like, am I at the game right now where Curry's going to hit 15 threes? Am I at the game right now where Curry's going to get 70?

Um, you have, there's a one-on-one aspect with Luca that I think's important. There's nobody in the league remotely like him, like remotely, all the stuff he's doing, like he got in the first eight minutes of the game I went to last night, granted Denver's missing their two best guys, but he beats, he beats everybody off the dribble for eight minutes in a row and he's doing the herky jerky stuff. He's banging people. It's like, it felt like he could post up whoever he wanted and he go buy, go buy whoever he wanted and he could make 27 footers.

Oh, and he's an awesome passer too. So you have that. You have the Hollywood redemption comeback story because the Mavericks gave up on them. Like you could say they traded them. They got a lot back. Well, obviously they didn't get a lot back, but They gave up on them. They didn't believe that they could win a title with him. They didn't want to pay him 330 million LA loves that. Um You have the lakers Outwitted another team to get him which is it I gotta be honest it feels like the laker fans have their swagger back a little because And then they ended up with Davis because LeBron made them trade everything for Davis. So now they end up with those two guys.

But for the most part, they ended up with the Lakers. And then they ended up with the Lakers. And then they ended up with the Lakers. And then they ended up with the Lakers. And then they ended up with the Lakers. And then they ended up with the Lakers. And then they ended up with the Lakers. And then they ended up with the Lakers.

And then they ended up with the Lakers. And then they ended up with the Lakers. And then they ended up with the Lakers. And then they ended up with LeBron basically because LeBron just wanted to move to LA. And then they ended up with Davis because LeBron made them trade everything for Davis. So now they end up with those two guys. But for the most part, we wouldn't call it the shrewdest team over the years. Then Reeves is a great pick. And then Luca is the greatest trade and maybe in the history of the league, at least since the Bill Russell trade. So you have that.

And then you have the night to night with Luca where you, you show up in the building and you don't know where you're going to get, and you can't put a price on that it goes beyond the trade. It goes beyond, you know, the fact that they fleece Dallas, that they have somebody who's about to the primary career. Like this guy has a chance to be Colby for these guys. And that's the difference. LeBron came in 2018. He'd been in the league 15 years.

He belonged to Cleveland. So it's a business arrangement. It was year to year and it was great and it's worked out awesome. And they have a chance to make the finals this year, but it was always a little bit of an arrangement. Um, Kobe is different. And when you go to the staples and you see the statues, when you walk in. And we were talking about like last statues, when you walk in.

And we were talking about like last time we're walking in, like is Luca giving me a statue here someday? You know, the statues are really smart. You go and you see, you see Jerry West, you see Kobe, you see magic, you see Shaq. And it's like, who's statue where they could LeBron get a statue. Maybe, maybe if they make the finals, maybe he's going to get one anyway. Um, but Luca, what's sitting at stake now for him is not only can he become the face of the league, we talk earlier the year, we're talking about face

to the league, face to the league. Like this is it. This, this guy has a chance now to be the face of the league. Could he win titles here? Could you get a statue and could you be one of the big celebrities in LA where night after night, after night, people are going to these games to see him, to see what happens with him. And you could feel the buzz already. There's more celebrities at all of these games.

The energy is different. And I'm not saying it was bad before, but the energy reminded me of what it was like when I went to that Kobe game. It's the same thing. And you kind of either have that or you don't, and he has it, and it's one of the many reasons why that trade is fucking incredibly stupid. So I just wanted to mention that.

Let's get to the rest of the podcast. You're listening to the Bill Simmons Podcast, presented by Fandle. Fandle Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. We have these fun little Tuesday, Friday player performance stuff. We have same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes, and boost performance stuff. We have a same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things.

Get ready in the playoffs. Download the fan dual sports book app today to get in on the action. And by the way, the ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit the ringer.com slash RG to learn more. Listen to them to this episode for additional details. It must be 21 plus presidents like States game problem, and Prom Call 1-800-GAMBLER, or visit rg-help.com. Hey, we launched a new podcast for The Ringer on Spotify.

It is called Good Hang with Amy Poehler. Two new episodes, Tina Fey and Martin Short. Check it out, it's awesome. We're also brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network. I put up a new rewatchables on Monday, Days of Thunder. I gotta be honest, I didn't realize how many people liked this movie. Lot of buzz out there.

People pumped that we did this. New Prestige TV podcast went up Sunday night after White Lotus, we did episode five. We have episode six, In the Bank. That is coming Sunday night, immediately after White Lotus ends. And then we don't have the screener yet for episode seven. It's gonna get dicey, folks.

There's only two episodes left, and we have not seen episode seven. So I will keep you posted. I know you're on the edge of your seat. We're also brought to you by Fandel Sportsbook. Check them out. And we are going to have Todd McShay talking about the NFL draft a little bit later.

But first, Chris Manix talking Boston Celtics sale and some NBA stuff as well. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right. We're bringing in the new owner of the Boston Celtics, Todd McShea. Congratulations. Can't wait to see what you do with the team. Pretty good money they got for that, huh? Quite the investment.

Yeah. Big six with no arena. So you have the McShea show for us. You have the McShea report report of excellent newsletter that is really becoming more and more exciting as we're within five weeks of the NFL draft. And I have some special interests because my favorite team is picking forth. But I want to go through some of the stuff you have in here. I feel bad.

I anytime I have you on, I feel like I'm stealing something from Rosillo. Did do I work this out with them? I don't know. I just feel like I'm going something from Rassillo. Did, do I have to work this out with them? I don't know. I just feel like I'm going to his fridge and grabbing like his grapefruit juice and taking like a big swig. No, you're like, you're like team Rassillo. I always feel bad. Yeah, but we're all on the team now.

Right. Oh yeah. Great. That's a good way to play. I'm going to tell him that. Um, it's starting to look like one, two for the QBs, which is what you laid out in mock draft 2.0 cam war to Tennessee Sanders to the Browns. Can we go through all the breadcrumbs of this Cleveland Browns Sanders?

Yeah, let's do it. Please let's hear it. All right. So I mean, you turned me onto the, what is it? Bazzana. I had to look up who Bazzana was. Do you like how I was that deep social media trying to find weird people talking about this? Yeah, I actually did.

And I'm sitting here, right? And I'm watching tape and I'm, it was running back. So I'm like, I'm on like the eighth or ninth running back and I've got like 20 more guys to do, and then we're texting about that. And I was like, you know what? I'm going to stop down for a minute. I thought I was going to take like 10 minutes and look through and see. Then I kind of got into my own little deep dive of art.

So everyone wants to say, Shador's got a second round grade for a lot of teams. I talked to two, two, we'll call them sources, two personnel people, right. At the combine who were in that, in the 15 minute interviews with Shador Sanders for teams that are drafting in the 15 minute interviews with Shador Sanders for teams that are drafting in the top 10 that need a quarterback. And I was surprised that the information that came out was, and I'll kind of paraphrase or summarize, it just, we got the vibe after meeting with all these other players and all the years of doing this, you can sense how important these

meetings are for the individual player when they come in. For Shador with us, we didn't get the sense that he cared an awful lot about what we thought of him. Right. It was almost like he was meeting with his accountant for 15 minutes or something. He was trying to sell them. Right. Exactly. And so I'm getting that information. And I look at him as a player who in certain systems, certain situations, he's got a chance to really succeed in the league, but he's not for everybody. He's not a big, strong arm mobile quarterback.

He's none of those things. Right. And so, because the perception is, cause it's Deion's son, you just in your head, you're like, oh, he's got to be an amazing athlete. And he's actually a way more traditional quarterback. It's the biggest surprise you'll see. And he was talking about, I'm going to, I'm going to run faster than my dad. I'm like, I don't know if you're going to, if you were to run a 40, I don't know

if you're going to break like four eight. Yeah. So, so you've got all of that. And so, and now the reports come out from different people in the league. Like what we don't even have a first round grade on them. And so I get it because in the teams that are willing to talk are the teams that don't have interest, right? So that's kind of the backdrop.

And then you, you know, you, you send me some of that stuff and I had heard that Cleveland's a place that he, that he has interest in it, but that's a short list. And there are some teams that I think those teams that I talked to that he didn't have the, the, you know, overwhelming interviews with are the ones that are on the list where coach prime has been telling us since, well, October, November, that there's going to be some teams that I, that my son is just not going to go play for. So you start to put all these things together.

And I just took a minute and I went back and I looked at Kevin Stefanski history. What has made him successful? What he's, what has he been successful with? Well, Case Keenum, we want 11 games with as a, as a coach. Uh, Kirk Cousins, he won 10 games with and a quarterback coach, offensive coordinator, like hands on with those guys. And so I got me thinking like the skill sets are the same, not big, not mobile,

not elite arms, but process quickly. That's his secret sauce. That's what you put. Would you put Flacco in there? Flacco modern day Flacco still has a big arm, but not like, you know, the Baltimore Ravens in his prime Flacco and has never been overly mobile. So, so yeah, so he's winning games with these guys where pocket passers don't have these

traits, but they all process quickly. They're accurate passers. That's what should or is. And so now I'm looking at it. I'm saying Cleveland is in purgatory salary cap wise because of the Deshaun Watson deal. So if I'm Andrew Barry, and I don't have any information that's saying Cleveland is taking should or just to make that clear. But if I'm Andrew Barry and I'm saying, all right, the salary cap is horrible this year, and it's not going to be any better next year.

We maybe can get a Russell Wilson or make a trade for Kirk Cousins, but that's just temporary. That could help us win some games this year while we're developing a young quarterback, whether that's for later in his rookie year or for year two. But we got to get to year two. Because if we're drafting this high next year and talking about like Garrett Nussmeyer from LSU or Carson Beck or whoever the quarterbacks are going to be next year, we're probably not the decision makers here in Cleveland. We probably lost our job.

They have to get to year two, not the Browns. Correct. The people making the pick have to get to year two. Correct. So it makes sense that you're bringing Kenny Pickett as a backup and maybe he, he does better things than all of us expect. Uh, if forced into duty. Exactly.

And, but so why are they still in the market for, for these veterans? Well, they're not going to cost anything. And so it's, they're only up, they weren't in it for Stafford. They're not in it for, for Aaron Rodgers. But if they can bring in someone to help win games, whether it's the whole year or part of this rookie year for a Shador Sanders, that gives them a shot. And then if you have Shador, there's energy, there's excitement about the future.

And Stefanski's one of the handful of guys in the league that I believe could get the most out of Shador and actually win a lot of games with. So we're checking a bunch of different boxes that make the NFL draft and the NBA draft so much fun, right? Yes. There's desperation. Uh-huh. You have decision makers like I might not be here in a year.

What's my, what's my big swing? Well, we have no salary cap space. I have the second pick in the draft. Nobody's really going to probably trade up for this. And even if they do, I want to have a quarterback. We're going six and 11, seven and 10 next year. See that you have the miles Garrett piece who was going to leave, get a trade. Something happened.

He gave that one interview where they asked them, are you comfortable with what's going to happen at quarterback? And he's like, oh, yes, I am. I was like, oh, what is it? Why is he comfortable now? There's no free agent. Is that Russell Wilson's not making him comfortable. I wouldn't think so.

Flag that one. Then you have Sanders like playing footsie on social media with the top Indians prospect, which I thought was notable. You have the dad who if his son goes second in the NFL draft, it's more money, it's more prestige, all that stuff. Cleveland. And his dad, like we can say all the things you want about coach Prime and and he's not for everybody and the way he handles things is things are it's

kind of against the establishment so there's obviously always gonna be pushback, right? But he is dialed into the league and he knows the guys that can help develop his son. And at the end of the day, as a father, right. All you want to do is put your children in a position where they have the, they can help them get the best of what they are, no matter what their career path is. And so I think he looks at it and with the connections in the league and his understanding, and he looks at it and says, you know what? I'm in a good position. Yes. He makes more money if he goes picks one, two or three, but also with that.

And it's kind of unique. There are three guys that are running the organization has had coaches that actually can coach quarterbacks. And he's not going number one where Brian Callahan is, but Stefanski is an outstanding quarterback developer and can work with him. And Brian Dabal, well, he's worked with bigger, you know, Josh Owens and Jalen Hertz at Alabama. He's worked with guys that have different traits. Brian Dabal can coach quarterbacks really well. So I think the combination of, yeah, he gets more money, but probably just as, if not more

importantly, I know, I trust where he's going to go and the people who are going to be working with. Yeah. And as people listen to this, you're gonna be like, well, of course Simmons wants them to go second because that's going to push out the two best guys. You should have seen my comments. Yeah. After I came out and I started talking about this, like, Oh yeah, he, we, Simmons got to you.

Simmons got to you. Right. And, and my answer is yeah, he got me thinking. He, Simmons got to you. Right. And, and my answer is, yeah, he got me thinking. There's no question. He got me thinking with some of the social media stuff that I was oblivious to, cause I'm sitting here watching like RJ Harvey, the running back from UCF. Well, to be fair, this started in Cleveland. Like there's people that cover the team.

There's people who follow the team and they're just kind of reading the tea leaves and it's for a lot of the reasons you mentioned, it's, they really are the only chance for them to get a quarterback who might make it. And this is the most fun part of the stretch for the draft where you have 50, 50 odds, usually with a quarterback this high, right? This might be 40, 60, but you start looking hard at the 40. I'm like, well, Stefanski, well, we have a good foundation around him.

Well, we have no chance to get a quarterback. What if we can turn him into something like, you know, Rossello has a theory. He would just take a quarterback every year in the first round, I think, because it's like, let's just keep throwing the darts. And at some point until you hit the balloon, right? In this case, if you're them, you have no other way to get a quarterback and you are absolutely murdered by the, uh, by the Dachon thing. The Giants one, that's a little tough for one because they're not in the same salary

cap that the Browns are in. They're not, but no one wants to. But Matthew Stafford at the end of the day, he was offered the same and I've even heard reports maybe like a little bit more to go to New York Yeah, but if you're if you're looking at it and I say I get two three years left I'm not certain that Joe Shane and more importantly Brian Dable is gonna be there for two or three years What's the stability about one year that they're in the same desperation thing, right? Yes, so that's why from for the of people I've talked to in the league, Bill, it is a later first, maybe early second round grade for Chedor.

But for the teams that are in these very unique situations, Cleveland at two and the Giants at three, they have circumstances that require them to make decisions that maybe they wouldn't make if they had six years left on their contract. They'd done a lot of winning and they didn't, you know, they, they wanted a quarterback, but they didn't need to reinvigorate the fan base and more importantly show promise towards the future. So. This isn't Mitch Trubisky either because this kid comes with real fame already.

People have watched him in college. They've watched him do good things. They like his dad. He's got some pizzazz, whereas like Trubisky, it's like, hey, he started 13 games. And he's like Darko Milichek basically. Hey, on paper, this guy's amazing. And there's really no evidence at all.

And he talked himself into it. Didn't have to come back for a second year where defensive coordinators had seen it the first time around. paper, this guy's amazing and there's really no evidence at all. And you talk to yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Come back for a second year where defensive coordinators had seen it the first time around. Like should do it. Here's the thing that I find interesting. First of all, when you watch the tape, he's tough as nails. So forget all like the diamonds and the commercials and all that stuff. Yeah.

This guy is an old school, throwback, pocket passing, stare down the gun barrel, take the hits and pop back up type of quarterback, okay? And the other part is too, it's interesting talking to people in the league, to a T, it's like, yeah, Primes getting all the media attention and people think that that's a headache,

he's not gonna be a uh, Shador comes here. In fact, and I don't want to go into a lot of the detail and it's speculation and when one person's, um, thoughts on it versus another, but cam ward's got a father apparently who's been very involved in it. And so there's, there's talk in the league of like, and it's not going to affect where cam goes, he's going to be the first pick in the draft. But like the, the interesting part to people in the league is like, we'd be a little bit more worried about the externals with cam than we are with Shador and coach prime.

Yeah. And he's also had a big spotlight on him for the last couple of years, right. Then abnormally large for QB. There's one of the pieces. So you're talking about how he didn't do well in a couple of those interviews, right? Or the vibes were off and it- Yeah, nothing was disrespectful. No, just like, hmm, doesn't seem like he's

that interested in coming to our team. He knows something that maybe we just don't know. Right. So there's an NBA version of this. They're in the COVID draft when Lamello ends up going second to Charlotte. And the story I always heard was they, and they have to do zoom interviews and it's, it's like the most fucked up draft process ever.

And they do the Lamello thing and he's just really off in it and he's distant and just seems like he doesn't really give a shit about the Warriors. And it affected how they thought about, you know, whether they should take them or not. And then it turns out he probably knew he was going, you know, Charlotte, he probably wanted to go there. And you kind of perform what your expectations are for where you want to go. Right.

So if it's a team and I can totally see it. If it's a team you don't really want to go to, you turned into Tom Cruise and risky business where you're like, Hey, I don't really want to go to University of Illinois. I want to go to Princeton. So if he has an inkling that he could go second, he knows in Cleveland, like obviously LeBron was there, like you can become a big star in Cleveland, but I can see it. It's a good situation because their team wasn't bad last year. Like it's not, they're not that far away from being a little more impactful maybe if they had a decent QB.

No, and they, and they need a running back. And this is, this just so happens to be the best running back class, maybe in the history of the draft and certainly since 2017. Yeah. And you know, they're, they're not that far away. They're really not. And I go through it. If I'm Shador and I've got assurances that it could be Cleveland,

but if it's not, it's very likely going to be the Giants. I think that that probably led to what you were just talking about too. And there's no trade up team. We don't think, cause the Raiders got Gino. I don't think that the Jets just went in on fields. I don't see them trading up anyway. And then the Saints. I do hear that the Jets, the the jets could pull, could, um, throw us a curve ball the first night, don't be, let's just get it out here now. I'm not saying it's going to happen, but I think there's a little bit of love

for a Jackson Darten, that building. Oh, it seems like he's the, uh, the bow next of this draft. Absolutely. Next ends up going what? 12. He went 12. Inconceivable. He was second round, second round, second round. Ohicks ends up going what? 12? He went 12. Seemed inconceivable. He was second round, second round, second round.

Oh, maybe late first round. Then all of a sudden he's 12. And if it wasn't Denver, it was probably going to be second round. Yeah. And that place, it just, Sean Payton fell in love with them. Perfect fit. And that's how it worked out. And listen, Jackson Dark doesn't go seven, which again, maybe let's put a 25,

30% chance at most at this point. Um, New Orleans is a possibility at nine, but then after that, another team that's in salary, cap, hell, and just completely screwed and have to get a quarterback somehow. Right. And then everyone's like, well, they brought Derek Cartback. Yeah. One more year, but this would actually be a perfect time to get a rookie

quarterback as we work through all the salary stuff, not force them out there for year one. So I think Jackson Dart could be a top 10 pick, but if he's not, then it's like, you know, we talk about 21 to Pittsburgh or a team. That's the other thing. Either the Browns or the Giants are very likely to take Shudor. Whichever team doesn't, the Browns are picking at 33, which is the first pick of the second round, the giants are picking up one spot after that.

I think you'll see one of those teams, whichever one doesn't get a quarterback. Why not moving into the first round? Maybe it's to pick 19 to Tampa or 20 to, um, to Denver to try to secure Jack Jackson, Dart, um, and also to get that try to secure Jackson Dart. And also to get that fifth year in the NFL. There's a fifth year option for the first round player. So you want to get that for that extra year of security as an organization.

Well, in the McShea report, a very excellent newsletter that everybody should subscribe to pops right into your, it's like, I woke up this morning, seven o'clock looking at tech, Celtics all of a sudden got sold. Then your newsletter came. I'm like, what a great morning. I haven't had that coffee yet.

It's kind of rush. You have the giants trading up to 19 for Dart. You had a fake trade, 34 and 65 and a 26 third rounder, the bucks for pick number 19. So in that scenario, the two quarterbacks go one, two, they take Hunter third. And I want to talk about that in a second and then move up and take Dart. And now they're like, we've got Dart. We've got neighbors. Yo, Travis Hunter, who knows? Maybe he'll play both sides of the ball.

And all of a sudden now there's energy with the giants. Absolutely. Let's bring it back to the top four, right? It's a puzzle. Yeah. And we know one, we've got one of the four pieces of the puzzle with those four picks, I feel very strongly like we've got it planted in there, right? So now figuring out the other three, it's almost like the rest of the

draft starts at pick five. Yeah. Like Mason Graham and Tyler Warren and the running backs and all this, but the first four picks, it's like, how does this work? Right. Well, and let me stop you one second there. I refuse to read another mock draft that doesn't have those four going in some order. I still see drafts from like good places where they're like number four Patriots, Will Campbell, and then Jacksonville takes up dual Carter at five. I'm like, I promise you that's not happening. No, no.

If Abdul Carter isn't four, they're taking Abdul Carter. And I put it in there because I wound up with Abdul Carter in the newsletter, in the mock draft 2.0. I put Abdul Carter in there, but I'm very, very clear to my friends here in New England. Like, don't get overly excited because a lot has to happen. So don't buy the jersey yet. Tell my buddy Jaybug. Don't buy it yet. excited because a lot has to a lot has to happen. So don't buy the Jersey yet Tell my buddy Jaybug. Don't buy it yet. Wait till like end of April, but if Chador goes two or three You can you can buy two jerseys and get rid of one of them because it's gonna be Hunter or Carter period But Hunter makes a whiff more sense for the Giants, but I thought you laid it out correctly

It makes a little more sense. But if they took Carter, that's, it's not like that's stupid. They would just have an amazing defensive line. I think they've prepared like most good organizations do. And I'm saying the Giants have been, but, but organizations are in free agency, are trying to free themselves up to take the best player in the draft. The Giants obviously have Kevan Thibodeau and Brian Burns at edge.

So you look at it and say, it's not a huge needle, who cares? Like when you get a player like that at the second most important position, you take him. And so if it goes where Chedur is number two, they have their choice. And so that's a good position to be in. But what if Abdul goes one or if Abdul goes one or two or what Abdul goes to, right?

And they're sitting there three and Hunter's the only guy you or if Hunter goes to, and then Abdul sitting there, they've got to make sure that they're covered. They, they sign re-signed Darius Slayton at wide receiver. They Paulson Adibo at cornerback. So they're covered, but they're talking about excellence versus just solid players. And so, well, you put, you put him and neighbors together just from an athlete standpoint.

Yes. And now you, now you have some more. And then the opportunity to go get a Jackson dart with that, as you had mentioned. So there's a lot of ways this can play out, but for New England, the only thing you really truly have to pray for is that Chidurgo's number two or three, because then you get either the best or the second best player in this entire draft following you at four, and that doesn't happen very often. Yeah. Otherwise you're looking at a trade back and in a trade back, I don't know

who's trading up and what you're getting. I mean, my, I told you my dream trade would be the jets move up to four. Pat's get Garrett Wilson, Pat's give up their second round pick. So it's basically seven and 39 for, you know, for like, whatever the Pat's end up with seven and Garrett Wilson in the deal. And I'm like, I'd sign up for that. Why would the jets do that? I have no idea. But that's my, that's where you lose me. I mean, yeah, you had me on the show. No, I had to. Yeah. I had, yeah. I can't listen.

I can't apologize for my dreams. No, not at all. But the thing with the Pats is I'm not, I'm not a big draft for need guy when you're not one guy away from winning the super bowl. This Pats thing is going to be like a three year, you know, completely. They don't need to be like, we need a left tackle because that way we'll go eight and nine next year. Like they just need, they need awesome players. And it really doesn't matter what position they are.

Well, the problem is though, if you're new England, if Shador doesn't go, right, let's say, let's say Cleveland in the Giants pass and it goes Abdul, uh, Abdul Carter, two Hunter three or vice versa. Then it's then now you're, you're in, remember I said, you're in Membo, you're in Membo range. Yes. And Membo's are taking them three, four spots too high, but you kind of have to do it right.

Membo's are right tackle in college and can he kick to the left side? Are they comfortable with that? And Will Campbell's a pure left tackle, but he's got 32 and a half inch arm. Like, and that's concerning when you're using a top 10 pick, you just want it to be clean. And so, and then you got Jaylen Walker from Georgia, who would do great things. Edge rusher, right. Edge rusher who do great things in Mike Vrabel's defense.

But again, you're talking about elite and no matter what the draft, Travis Hunter, Abdul Carter are elite, they're in that top tier to then like, it could be one of like six or seven guys with very similar grades. And now we're, now we are focusing more on the need. No, it's, it's Lombardi's whole thing about blue chippers, we call them red chippers and then Yeah, the guys below that but you the teams that usually are around the Super Bowl sniffing around You look and they have five six seven eight blue chippers

Yes, that's the Pats only have ones all as a drink mate right now. What's your nose tackle? They got from the Eagles What's your blood pressure gonna be like? When Cleveland and the Giants come up to, you know, to make their, like during that 25, 30. Well, don't you think we'll know? We'll know, we'll know with Cleveland and Sanders, right? Like that, that's not going to leak out. Yeah, probably.

A lot of people with interests in that. Yes. Don't you think? Probably, probably, but still like until you hear the name. Cause the only thing that worries me is are the Browns, I, and I would do this if I ran a team, like do you pretend you're drafting Sanders because you want to see if the giants are going to flip out and maybe offer you something to flip picks with

you. And you wanted Abdul Carter all on. Yeah, of course you do. I always feel like I'm just going to that I'm gonna but the judge would know Unless you're a team behind trying to the Giants would know if you're willing to give up that pick you're not you're not taking them But they could say If you don't swap picks with us, we have somebody that's coming at hard. That's the we might Surprise in the Saints, whoever. Yeah. Yes. And then, and then you have the Giants are now trying to use all their intel, like find out from our guy in the Jets and how real this is.

And that's what makes the draft so much fun. You're basically all playing poker with each other, but it's some of the worst poker players who ever lived. Yes. So you, the biggest questions are Carter versus the other, the QBs are Carter versus the other, the Cubies Carter versus a Hunter, just who has more value. And that really seems like whoever just needs whatever they do more, but they, they're pretty equal. You have Carter above Hunter,

but not by it. No shit load, right? It's like a hair. The tricky part for Hunter is what's the plan, right? And for a team like New England, I've gotten to believe it's, you don't have Drake May and say, yeah, we just drafted this guy for overall generational talent. He's going to be a nickel corner as a rookie and eventually our starting corner. You might get 20 plays with them on offense. It's just not going to happen.

So everyone is talking about the about the moonlighting where you'd like to play him at corner because that's the harder position in terms of developing and the technique and being part of part of 11 there. Whereas wide receivers a little bit more ISO one kind of like an NBA thing, you know? Yeah. A lot of one-on-one stuff. For New England, I can't imagine that would be the case. I think it would be you're a full-time receiver. We've got our biggest asset in this entire organization is Drake. And so we've got to, we've got to assist that. And this is our best chance to get a number one receiver.

Cause we struck out trying to get all these different guys. Now you're looking at Stefan Diggs and Brandon IU, people are coming off major injuries, it gets a little, and it's a receiver draft that sucks. Yeah. So it depends on the team, but I'll say this. I think Travis Hunter is more advanced as a wide receiver right now. I think Travis Hunter can be Garrett Wilson and with maybe like a touch more juice after the catch. So I would have no problem with him being a 50 snap a game, offensive player and 25, you know, third downs, red zone, that kind of stuff on defense.

If you can, if you can manage all that. It sounds like such a fun wrinkle for whoever gets him. Where if you play him at receiver, but he's also like your dime back. And it's just like, he's in now. Oh my God, he picked one off. Like just, it's this rate of being. Right. Remember when Dion would come on the field to return a punch or kick? Do you remember like?

Or when he would line up at receiver. It was like so exciting. It was like, Oh my God, are they going to throw it to him? So that would be cool. This tournament season, Fandl has given you the power to take control of your bets. Introducing the bet back token, the ultimate game changer that lets you bail on any bet that's not going your way by turning it into bonus bets. It's simple. One of your bets is not heading in the right direction in the game. Go to your, my bet section, tap the token, get your stake back immediately in bonus bets. Just like that right now for the

attorney Fandl is giving all customers a bet back token. It's just a shame the Mavericks couldn't have gotten this for the look of trade. Just head over to Fandl.com slash BS to grab your bet back token today. Only on America's number one sports book. You must be 21 plus and president select states are 18 plus and president DC opt-in required refund issued as a non-material bonus bets that expire seven days after a seat max refund $5 and thus otherwise specified restrictions apply including token expiration C terms at sportsbook.fandom.com.

Game problem call 1-800-GAMBORG. Visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Audi. The all new fully electric Audi Q6 e-tron. A huge leap forward featuring effortless power, serious acceleration, and the most advanced tech of any Audi ever. Experienced technology that puts you center stage, the panoramic digital stage plus an optional screen

for front seat passengers. That sounds fun. Perfect for watching the latest sports documentary. Maybe I made it. The Q6 e-tron is not just the new EV. It's a new way to experience driving. Learn more at AudiUSA.com. Always pay careful attention to the road.

Do not drive while distracted. Then the draft really starts at five. And you had Mason Graham going to the Jags and Mach Draft 2.0. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. The running backs are fascinating to me too though. Right. So I was going to say that the boys' state kid at six to the Raiders, but then you also love Hampton and we could have two running backs in the top 12, even though one of the only things we've learned about the draft is don't take

running backs that high, it's a disposable position. Like I was looking at the 2016 draft in the NFL, don't ask why. And like everybody in that draft seems so old now. Like Zeke Elliott's in it. 2016 draft is like not that long ago. Like Jaylen Brown was in the 2016 draft and he's just hitting the prime of his career and Zeke Elliott seems like he's 48. So you think about that with running backs and it's like, all right, so I'm going to draft somebody that I have for six years. I get Mason Graham. He might play till he's 36.

He might, he might have two giant contracts. I just, I'm like, Cam Hayward's what? 36 now? So, right. Yeah. So if you're taking a running back, that guy that high, you better think it's like, this is Saquon Barkley, Bichon Robinson. For each of those teams, you look at the Raiders and like some of their other position, like wide receiver,

there's no receiver to draft that high. Some of the other position cornerback like Jaday Barron from Texas, but it's not like, we're not talking about, you know, one of those like elite, elite corners. Um, you look at what Pete Carroll has had and he's not necessarily, you know, going to be the Depends on what his role winds up being but Tom Brady is gonna play a big part in all of this, too but from a From the standpoint of how they want to build it. You want to have a great defense

They want to recapture some of the Legion of Doom stuff. They want to have a you know, a running back like a Marshawn Lynch Who who can be there. A big banger, protect the ball, the defense take care of a lot of the business on the field. And that's what Chinti is in terms of an every down back. He, the miss tackles forced and he's just, he's a special back. So that it makes sense for that organization

and for that pick where they are, cause it's not like they're passing on this elite pass rusher or corner or wide receiver that they shouldn't for running back. And then for Chicago, they handled their business so well in free agents, three offensive linemen that they're protecting their quarterback. They, they could go tackle with that spot if Will Campbell's still there. But I also, I have concerns enough with drafting a 32 and a half inch arm tackle in the top 10.

And if we bring in a running back to go with Deandre Swift, how much more are we protecting our quarterback by having two backs? And so if one goes down, we still have a top shelf back. If both are in there, they're keeping each other fresh. We can run the football. we can take some pressure. I don't know. And we saw what Ben Johnson did with Jameer Gibbs and how quickly that offense went from, you know,

90 to 100 with that one player really. So if Will Campbell had 34 inch arms, he'd be the fourth pick in the draft. Could be. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? There's only three starting tackles in the league at the end of the year with sub 33 inch arms.

So you're playing, it's kind of, Parcells used to say, we don't want a roster full of exceptions, you know? So that part's concerning. View GM, would you ever take a running back in the top 12? No. I don't think I would either. Especially not this year when I'm looking at guys like Quinchon Jenkins from Ohio state and cam scataboos.

I take his tape. I liked even more than I thought after watching the awesome things he did this season, my dream scenario for the third round for the Pats. I don't know that he's going to get there. He might not. But even if not, you got R.J. Harvey from UCF. You've got DJ Giddens from Kansas. You know this though, when there's too many, guys start dropping because nobody ends up taking, like even think about last year with the wide receivers, that got so stupid and the Pats ended up with the 10th guy in the first 35 picks who was a receiver. You know, I think there's a, they know all of a sudden Cooper goes to the Eagles at 39

and he's the third best defensive back on the board. I don't know. I just feel like when there's a glut, it really fucks things up. And sometimes though, when you look at it and say, well, I can get those guys later, sometimes it's like, hold, hold, you know, and then all of a sudden one goes and there will be this, this run. But I think everyone's going to kind of wait to see where the dominoes start to fall before they jump in because no one wants to draft a, no one wants to draft the running back over some of these other premium positions, even if you're

talking about pick 40, they'd rather wait. But I would say the, the, the Gibbs and the success Detroit had with him as a weapon would make people think like, ah, maybe in the 12th to 15 range, I always looked with the draft, you know, and I'm starting, I'm already starting to think about NFL over unders and the wind totals and can somebody get like when the Eagles got Jaylen Carter that year, it's like, Oh, that's that getting that guy at nine. Jesus. Like that, that might affect.

And when you look at the teams that are picking the first 15, the one that jumped out to me was the team you mentioned, the bears, and I have no idea if they're going to be good and they're in a brutal division and who knows with Caleb, but they, they spent a lot of money. They have the QB on the rookie scale. And then if they just crushed the 10th pick somehow and got somebody awesome, then you just have to start thinking like, ah, look at this. Like that Tyler Warren, the tight end.

I don't know where he's going to go. He could go five. He could go 12, but like, if they got him at 10, that's somebody that could play right away and be, you know, potentially like an impact dude right away. So that was the team I was looking at. And then the only other one was, uh, was Atlanta just cause I think Atlanta with Penix and they have some talent, the division sucks. Like if they are able to nail that pick, that could be a good one too.

Going back to the bears, it's kind of what I said earlier, like the good teams, they plug all the holes so that they can pick the best player available. They do have a luxury pick and you would say, how do the Bears have a luxury pick? Well, that would be in it to a certain degree, a luxury pick, but it fits what they want to do. But the other part of it is, maybe you say a 10 and you draft an

offensive tackle, or maybe you draft an edge rusher, like a Mike Kel Williams from Georgia, because they are picking it. I've got it right here. 30, 39 and 41 in the second round. Yeah. And so if I, I love Omarion Hampton from UNC at running back, but what if I just take a stab at one of these pass rushers and look at what like the Eagles.

What if I load up on my D? Yeah. Load up on my D, go get Kam Skatibou, go get Quin-Shawn Judkins, one of those guys at 39. I can still draft an offensive lineman or defensive player with that 41st pick. So there's different ways to look at all of this. And that's why I think it's gonna be fascinating.

We're gonna see at least two running backs in the first round, I think three. I don't know that we're gonna see two in the top 10, but we could. I can't believe that. Well, that's what with TMAC, I wonder like, this is the reverse of a glut. When there's nobody at a position,

he's the only probably first round graded wide receiver. He's one of the only two that you could even see going in there. And somebody just needs a receiver and you get people in an office like, eh, fuck it. We need a receiver. And all of a sudden he's going 11th, you know, cause we see that version of the draft too. I just say, wow, you're taking them here.

I think everyone wants to be so quick to look at the highlights and the spectacular plays and they are spectacular. And then they want to look at his size and then they want to look at the report from Schultz. Was it that where he ran a four, four, eight. I talked to some scouts. They had closer to four, four, five, somewhere in that range. Regardless. I, I don't see the dog in him and I don't see the refinement and Drake London

wasn't overly refined and he needed a year before he could be a thousand plus yard receiver, but that's the comp, right? Tall, just acrobatic type of guy, but they're yes, the shades of, but they're not, they're not the same player. So does somebody look better if there's not, if there's not a lot of competition in a draft and then they start to look like the hottest girl at the bar? Absolutely.

And he will go. I mean, he could go as high as Dallas at 12 let's say but I had him going later in the first round I had him going to the to the Ravens kind of at that point best player available they can use another receiver. Yeah. Probably go somewhere in between that range when it's all said and done but I'm betting on Matthew Golden from Texas. If you need a receiver, like that's why I gave you Dallas. So you have two. Okay.

I've got two. And then Emeka Ibuka could be the third that sneaks in from Ohio State. We'll see how he runs in his pro day, but he would be the third that I think has a good chance to go. All right. Two more questions. Let me give you another name real quick. Yeah.

If you're not getting the receiver that first pick at 38 for New England, Jayden Higgins from Iowa state. Do a little work on him. I've watched some YouTube on him. They're looking for, they're looking for a physical receiver. I feel a little burned after poke last year in the, in the thirties with the receiver. I'm, I'm, I'm hurt. My guard's up. I know, but I'm just saying he's a name that fits what they're looking for.

Second to last question. Who is the holy shit? This guy's going here. Top 15 guy. If you had to guess the guy who just goes 10, 11 spots higher than you ever could imagine last year would have been Bo Nicks. Like if we were talking about that draft five weeks for the draft, they're like, and you said Bo Nicks is going to go 12.

I would have been like, what? That's insane. He's not going 12. Who is the that's insane guy? I think Jackson Dart could be. I'm just looking at it right now. Um, is there a weird left tackle? Like maybe on paper guy that we're not.

That could be late. Like Membo already rose up. I'll give you a guy. Everyone coming out of the combine. Nikki Minwari, right? From South Carolina, really good player. Yeah. I don't think an elite player yet. I think he's still getting there.

I think used in the right scheme. I'd love to see him, um, with, I would say, trying to think of Seattle would be a perfect spot, right? McDonald, the way he, he, what he did Baltimore, Hamilton, I could see that being a really good marriage, but Emanwory was, was like almost six, four, 220 pounds, his combination of like size 40 time, which is four, four flat and, and vertical broad jump. It had never been done in the history of the combo. Like he's that special of an athlete.

It was awesome to watch. I still think the other safety who ran after him and ran a pedestrian time and didn't jump like him. And I think Malachi starts from Georgia, could wind up being a top 15 pick ahead of Eman War. And I think that would surprise people right now. Last question. people right now.

Last question. Rosillo stretches for a half hour, goes out to Manhattan and tries to run the 40. But he's stretched, he's limber and he's ready and we have scouts there and a stopwatch. What is Rosillo running right now in the 40? We haven't talked about this publicly, but there's no better place to do it. I texted Rosillo the other day with the old the old line of the town the movie you know yeah I can't tell you what we're gonna do you can't you can't you know you can't whose car are we taking? and I said my your answer needs to be whose whose car are we gonna take right and that was in regards to I wanted I want to take over his house for the third day

at the draft and do a live stream from there. I can't wait. Sounds great. So we're announcing that right now without permission, but I figured who's going to yell at me, you right? But I, I would love to do, to do that as part of the day three of the draft to get Rassil to run.

I'm going to guess. I mean, he's really, he's got a lot of muscle right now, which I think would hurt for the speed, but it also may help. Maybe he's in great shape. I don't know. Four nine three. Four nine three. Yes. So you're under five.

He's a friend. That's fair. That was really, really nice of you. Yeah, I thought so. So publicly you'll go four, nine, three. I would be more interested in like the three cone or the short shuttle, the lateral agility with all that weightlifting. I just can't see that, that ending well.

What weightlifting out of all those things they do in that, what would he crush? The bench press. Yeah. The bench. So huge bench press. That's what the teams are talking about after. Like, Jesus. Roussillo benched 580.

But I don't see him as a fullback, so I'm trying to figure out where we're going to roll him up. Oh, you see him like a, like a, what was that guy in the Niners? Ushek? Yeah, yeah. Ushek. Yeah. Like a guy Belichick would have taken in 2007, just like I just want him for special teams.

Special teamer effort. I like his attitude. Yeah. Kind of like that celebrity basketball game he played. I'll never forget that. Oh, he's still mad about it. We'll talk about it all the time. Yeah.

All right. McShea, subscribe to his newsletter. It's great. Listen to the McShea show. Also great. You can find that on YouTube as well. Great to see you as always. All right.

YouTube, bye. Chris Manix is here. You can read them on sports illustrated. You can listen to his podcast. What's the podcast called open floor still open floor. Yeah. Open floor was that, where was that on the title list as you were coming up with title names, the top one or like two taken titles are so hard. Yeah.

Yeah. I think my, this was back. Like I started that podcast before I left for Yahoo. So like, it was back then. Let's just call it basketball or something like that. They're like, no, gotta keep going. Speaking of basketball, an eight episode HBO drama could be written about the Celtic sale

where we found out today $6.1 million to somebody that 12 hours ago, nobody knew who he was. I mean, probably some rich people knew who he was. People knew he was the final bidder, but now. Bill Chisholm is going to be the next owner of the Boston Celtics. He paid a record price. It was not an accident where Washington, the commanders went for 6.05. Celtics go for six one.

I have a million thoughts, but what was your immediate reaction to the price? Astonished. I didn't believe they would get over six. Look, that's a huge number regardless, but the fact that you're just selling the team and you're not selling an arena, that is a huge variable in all this. Yeah. When Matt Ishby bought Phoenix for a 4 billion valuation, he was getting the arena with it. He was getting, for whatever it's worth, a WNBA team with it.

You're just getting the Boston Celtics here. And yeah, it's an iconic franchise, but it's a franchise that costs a lot of money, is set to have the highest payroll ever next year. You're taking on something with a lot of bills. So I guess my first reaction was Bravo to H. Irving Grousbeck and the lawyers that he hired to sell this team because I really believe that he got this, he got the absolute maximum value that is possible to extract from the sales at this point. So I give him, that was my first reaction. Like, wow, they got a price that I didn't believe they were going to get. My first reaction, because I love being right, was I was saying last summer that this was going to get to six and that's what the NBA wanted.

And guess what? It got to six. I think that's, that was a huge thing for the NBA with the expansion coming. Six has to be the number. That's what we want. I think it was a big thing for the family, especially Irv, the 90 year old legend who, um, was not going to have any sort of inside job. I think it was a big thing for the family, especially Irv, the 90 year old legend, who was not going to have any sort of inside job. There's a whole Steve Pagliuca,

who's the number two owner of the Celtics right now, that everybody assumed he was gonna get it, and I can't wait to dive into that piece with you. It was made clear from the beginning, there's no inside job, this will go to the highest bidder, the most money wins this. And nobody really believed it, but that's how it played out and got to 6-1 and my guess is that The Pagluca group and maybe even one or two of the other ones got to the six

The point one is so fascinating to me the point one Sometimes this is how it goes. This is how Larry Ellison lost the Warriors. Where it's like, no, he had it, he had it, he had it. Then the other side, I think went to, I forget what it was, like 400, 360, whatever it was. And he's like, nope, that's my final offer. And he didn't get it.

And over and over again, the guys that get these teams are the ones that are like, oh, you want to break the Washington record? All right, all right, point one, done. And that was it. That's how he got it. So the Steve Pak Luga piece is incredible that he didn't get it. And then he came really close and he did a long post today that was posted on social media. Um, that was, I think one of the strangest posts I've ever read from somebody who didn't own a

team. I couldn't believe he did that. Can I just that I would call that corporate scorched earth, right? Like it's not scorched earth, like Dan Gilbert on LeBron, but it's corporate scorched earth where I thought the most telling part of that, uh, was five paragraph statement that he released was at the very end of, I think it was the first paragraph, where he noted that he had put together a group of investors that were eager to continue to reinvest in the team.

I think the last sentence was luxury tax be damned. Like what Steve Pagliuca is doing there is he is planting the seed to be like on the other side of future Celtic fan outrage because we all know there are some tough decisions that this ownership group is going to have to make in the next couple of years. Like Sam Houser makes $10 million right now. In real dollars though, that's like 80 million he's making. He's costing this team. There are decisions that they're going to have to make. What Steve Bagliucca in my mind did with that statement was just put himself in a position where if this team does cut some corners over the next couple of years, lop off some

salaries, he can sit there and be like, you know what? I would have done that. I put together a group of guys that weren't going to do that. Like he set himself up. We can get into the dynamics there of. We're doing it right now. Okay. But like, this is the number one thing I want to talk about. Go ahead. Well, it's just, so you have these two guys, WIC's dad puts up the most money for the team, WIC's the one that's organized in the group and it starts out,

I think with four people that put up the money, they, they get the price and then their job after they get the price is to then go buy, find a group of minority people to then take off, offload some of the money they just committed to, which by the way, that's what Chisholm is doing right now. He's trying to, he is now, he's already put the feelers out. He's trying to put together a little syndicate to offload some of the money that he's already promised. So that's in motion now.

So they get the four, but Pags was always, it was like Wic and he's the owner and the dad put up the most money, but also here's Pags. And they've had this uneasy co-owner alliance, but Wic was always the face of it. And it was always a little awkward and you could feel it when they were like a trophy. You know, that's when that Lazarie and Edens had that too. Some of these co-owner like Goober and Lake up same thing where it's like, it's my team, but you have to be here and you hold, let's hold the trophy together. And it's always super awkward.

And I don't know how great it was going by the end because I think when, when PAG Leuca tried to buy the nets and I don't, I don't think WIC found out from Peg Luca is my understanding. And I don't think it's been great since then. Um, and I think the reverse of that was Peg Luca found out that the Celtics were being sold the same way we all did. It was, it was, he was not tipped. He was not giving a heads up.

So I don't think that relationship has been great for the last year. And this specifically, the way he reacted to the sale tells me that this is, this is going to get ugly. And I have some reasons for why this got bad near the end, but what else have you heard on this? I, it's, I've seen it unfold over the last 20 years and you can unequivocally say it was a lot stronger at the beginning than it was at the end 20 years. And you can unequivocally say it was a lot stronger at the beginning than it was at the end. Yeah. And some

of that has everything to do with what you said there, like, Pat Luke is in this kind of with his own cash to what I don't know what the final percentages that he owned of this group, I heard heard around eight or 9%, something in that ballpark. And he's looking at with Grousbeckck who owns a lesser percent of the team, but is effectively H. Irving in all of this. Like he is the money guy. He gets to be the face of it.

And you're right, there have been some moments over the last six, seven years as this team has ascended into conference finals, NBA finals, ultimately championships, where they're not exactly pulling the trophy kind of away from each other, but you can see some of that tension between those two guys. And look, I don't know about you, but I had been hearing for months now

that through Pagliucca, it's kind of telegraphing this to people in the NBA, that he believed he was gonna get it. Like it eventually was gonna play out that he was gonna get control of this team. It might take a little bit longer than people expected, but he was ultimately gonna grab and he was gonna get control of this team. It might take a little bit longer than people expected, but he was ultimately gonna grab control of this team.

And you can just tell from that statement that he's furious, that he is completely bullshit right now, that he is not going to be the majority owner of the Celtics. Well, so I think he, from what I had heard, that he had the money to get to five, which is where they were hoping it was gonna be in the fives of the Celtics. Well, so I think he, from what I had heard, he had the money to get to five, which is where they were hoping it was gonna be in the fives because that's a realistic price for a franchise

that doesn't have an arena. Yeah. The gross backside wanted more, they wanted more, they're pushing the number up. And I think one of the ways this really went sideways, there was a moment in this process where stuff was getting leaked out about the sale and there was a moment in this process where stuff was getting leaked out about the sale and there was an unflattering piece about, you know,

that it came out and I don't even know what WIC's exact stake is, but how small WIC stake allegedly was with the Celtics and they're shooting too high and there was stuff and I don't think that went great for Pegs and whether whatever he may have done or not done and he, maybe he did nothing, but I think there was a feeling that somebody was trying to neg the price and make it lower to try to make it. And I think you look at 90 year old or gross back who's like one of the great business people, the lot less like really respected,

respected as a thinker and he's tutored a bunch of people and he's a mentor to a lot of people and he's just, he's rich for a reason. And I don't think it went over very well. That stuff started coming out that they wanted too much for the team. Cause ultimately who's saying that? It's either, it's like the Fenway group who I don't think

ever was going to try to do it anyway, or somebody that was already actively trying to buy the team and there weren't a lot of people at that point. So I think from the moment that happened, when those stories came out, it started to get dicey. And there's a lot of people in the organization who are rooting for him to get it because he was stability. It's like, if he comes in, everything will remain the same.

And I think when that happened, people started getting nervous. I would say too, Bill, like there were people rooting for him to get it. I do think there were. I was kind of rooting for him too, because I wanted to think, I wanted things to stay somewhat the same. I do think there are also people rooting for him not to get it though. Like, I think there was a faction there that didn't want to get it in part

because all the stuff he's saying now, um, and I'm sure he would have said it once he, if he had gotten control of the team. I'm not sure everybody believes him. I don't know that everybody believes that he would be the guy to just pour money into this team to keep it a championship contender throughout the Tatum Brown era. They just didn't believe him. He's got allies within the organization, but I think he also has people that are not as fond of him inside the organization. So I think it was kind of a mixed bag there. I also don't necessarily know because even though there was kind of a whittled down list

of finalists, there were a lot of people trying to buy this team and trying to get into the mix for this team. And there were a lot of people, and I heard this through the NBA, the NBA stayed connected to the sale process. And I was hearing through those sources, like that people were kind of grumbling over, like, how are you asking for this when you're not giving us an arena,

and it's just the team and all the money we have to spend. So there was a lot of people frustrated with the price. And I think it's just as likely that some of that stuff about WIC leaked out from someone not named Steve Pagliucca as it was that it was passed. That's why we don't know how it leaked out or someone not named Steve Pagliuca as it was to that it was. That's why we don't, we don't know how it leaked out or what happened, but I think once it happened, it changed the tenor of this whole thing where they were like, okay, fuck, fuck all you people. Now we're going to get the price we want.

And there you mentioned like, there were a lot of people kicking the tires on it. You know, it was double figures. It got whittled down to five. Lori was in it, the Eagles owner. And then for whatever reason dropped out right after the Superbowl or before the Superbowl right around the Superbowl. I think it was after who knows. Um, but it went from five to four. And I, Chisholm was the mystery guy to me.

I didn't, there's even if you were Googling them today, there just isn't a lot of information about him. He's grew up on the North shore, went to Dartmouth. His son plays soccer at Dartmouth and graduated in 19. He's on this like weird tech fun, hedge fund thing, and he's apparently a huge Celtics fan. And that's all we know. But this is why it's so amazing

when somebody buys a team like the Celtics. You go from, I could walk by you and have no idea who you are to now you're one of the kings of Boston. And I think that's, I think Wicks had a really hard time with that over the last year, knowing that there's some end game where when you're the owner of the Celtics, the room treats you a little differently than when you're not. And I think he's aware of that.

Which leads into this idea that he's going to be, you know, the governor of this team for the next three years, which I believe is going to be the case because I believe it's going to be codified in the sale agreement. Like, this is not going to be kind of whatever handshake deal Mark Cuban had with, you know, Patrick Dumont and the Adelson family. Like, I think he's going to have any deal. No, he didn't have any deal there. That's kind of what the problem was. Like Cuban went into the sale thinking, you're right. Well, you know, I'm, they're going to let me do this. And all of a sudden, very quickly, it was determined that he wasn't. I do think even if it's nominal, we're going to get with Groszbek as one of the

front-facing owners of this team for the next three years. Now, I think there are going to be problems with that because if you're the guy footing the bill for the franchise, you're not going to have key decisions being made by someone that's got one foot out the door. Like I think that there are certainly potential problems with that. But I think, look, Wick, all along, I've thought that Wick wanted to have his cake and eat it too. He would not be selling this team if he wasn't being forced to by his family. But because he was being forced to, he wanted to make sure that there was top dollar involved in the return and that he would get to hold on to his place atop of the totem pole as

long as humanly possible. And it sure looks like right now that's what he's going to get. Like I had some people texting me today, you know, basically saying, don't be surprised if you see Wick kind of take some of the money that he's going to get off this and try to get back into the ownership group in a smaller slice of it to stay kind of connected to this team. So I don't think, look, he's not going to be running the team forever, but I don't think WIC Grousebeck is going anywhere anytime soon.

So his statement, and it was funny because they released this statement from Boston Business Partners, which is the group that owns the team. Wicks the first quote in it. And he says that Chisholm asked me to run the team as CEO and governor for the first three years and stay on as his partner, stay on as his partner. And I'm glad to do so. And then the next paragraph is a quote from Chisholm. I've never seen somebody buy a team and not be the first quote in the press release. Everybody was saying Wick was trying to do this and it seems like he actually pulled it off.

And you mentioned the Cuban piece. I never believed that as it was happening, it seemed inconceivable to me that somebody was going to buy a sports team. And then just let somebody who didn't know. We just don't see that really happened ever. And the times we've seen it happen were like Pat Croce and the Sixers, you'd be the government and then it would always go badly within a year. So it says three years. It doesn't mean it's going to be three years.

So if I gave you like the Fandel over under, and I gave you the two and that, like, like boxing two and a half rounds, is it, would you go over under if you gave me two and a half for the over under, I don't know what I'd bet. I go under, I go under. Um, I just think there's too many big decisions that are made by a team governor, like, and I think, you know, Chisholm and his ownership group is going to be the one to be the ones making that decision. Now, maybe there's synergy between the two, maybe there's no, no space between them, no room for

daylight, they're all in lockstep. But the second they disagree on something, it's gonna be Chisholm that says, it's my team, do what you want, you want to stay in this capacity as a front facing owner as the governor of the team, fine, but we're doing things my way. And I don't blame him. You're putting up a valuation of $6 billion.

You don't blame him. Of course he should have that. Absolutely. So it's Chizome. Chizome, okay. No, I don't know how, how were you saying it? I've been, I'm kind of saying it. We know so little about this guy.

I don't even know how to pronounce his name. I thought it was Chizome. I'm kind of saying it in a Massachusetts way though, like we both kind of are there. Like if I see that name, I call him Chisholm. Can he put like a social media thing on and be like, here's how to pronounce my name. Please call me Bill.

I refuse to believe his name's William. It's gotta be Bill. His son's name's Will, which tells me he's a Bill. So here's one of the many things that I don't get about this for that kind of price. And you not going to quote unquote, be the governor for the first three years. I mean, now he's in his mid fifties. He graduated from Dartmouth in 91. So he's in, this is prime MBA owner, NFL owner range, like from mid fifties,

all the way through to mid seventies, a 20 year run. He's got the son. I have no idea if the son's going to be groomed to have a role with PAG Luca, his son, I think would have been a big part of it. We'll see what this same thing with it. If Laurie had gotten it, I think his son would have been a big part of it. Um, I just find it hard to believe you're going to buy this team, do the victory lap, do the press conference, figure out where your tickets are, have

these huge decisions like, Oh my God, if we get bounced in round two of the playoffs, we're losing a shitload of money on top of this $200 million luxury tax bill that's coming. Let me just turn over all the decision-making a wick. That seems crazy. And we haven't really seen it happen in anything else. I'm like you, I'm, I'm watching it. I'm skeptical. Again, there's too many personnel decisions, financial decisions to just fork over to somebody that's eventually going to sell you the rest of the team or whatever it is in a period of time.

I think it can last for a year, a year and a half, maybe two years, but eventually something's going to come up to cause fissures between these two sides. There's just too much money at stake for me to believe that it's going to be this lasting fruitful relationship. Now I do think though, Bill, I don't know that the new ownership group really had much of a choice with all this. I think it was presented this way like, all right, we'll say the team, but you got to take all this with you. If you don't take this, we'll go to option B. We have other offers on the table. You saw it was the Globe story back in January, where there's four finalists.

Like there were people that wanted this team. And I'm sure that that WIC leveraged that and used that to his advantage. So, all right, if you want to buy this team, you're going to put up the $6.1 billion valuation, but you're also an agree to X, Y, and Z. And that's, I think that's what they were kind of forced to stomach in order to gain control of this team. So some of the questions that are left is, was this the highest offer? I'm going to assume it was.

Had to be. But he's doing a lot of debt and all this stuff to, to, whereas I, cause I thought it was notable. Pat Glucka said in this thing, we had a real offer. He sounded like a guy who didn't get the house he thought he was going to get. It's like, we had a real offer. He sounded like a guy who didn't get the house. He thought he was going to get it. It's like, I had a real offer. I offered you all cash.

I don't understand why he went with this other person. They didn't offer you all cash. Um, I don't understand the WIC part at all. And there's another piece of this too. And I'm sure you've been around the team a lot. Like he he's pretty devastated that they're selling in the first place. And he's talked about it pretty openly

to people that ask him about it. And it's been a theme that has been going around the last couple months that his dad pushed for this, his dad wanted to do it for the estate planning, all the stuff they said. But I think especially with winning the title last year, the team being really good this year, I think Wicks had a really hard time with this. Even harder than maybe he's let on publicly.

So just staying on now for two more years, but knowing that there's an end game, it's a really weird variable. I'm excited because he's a great owner and I hope he stays on and has the same impact he had, but it's weird. I feel bad, it's weird to feel bad for somebody who just sold something for $6.1 billion,

but I just don't think he wanted to sell, I don't. He absolutely did not want to sell. This was his father, and we've covered this ad nauseam, but like his father, recognizing his own mortality and figuring it's better to get your affairs in order with cash and not with the Boston Celtics. Like that's right. That's why I wonder if over the next couple of years that WIC would come to appreciate the foresight of his father here. Like I think he's getting out exactly at the right time. Like think about what you accomplished in the 23 years you owned the Boston Celtics. You won two championships,

you put together two kind of mini dynasties, the one from the 08 to 2012, whatever it was, Eric didn't achieve as much as it probably could've achieved if guys had stayed healthy, but you got that group together, you won a championship, you pulled off the greatest draft trade in whatever history by dealing all those picks and getting all those picks from the nets.

And you rebuild the team that's been in two finals in three years and is well positioned to win another championship. You got an A plus for ownership. And you stuck with Tatum and Brown. You stuck with Tatum and Brown. And you became the best owner in Boston by 2025, hands down. Imagine if John Henry had sold the team like 10 years ago. Like what would we be thinking about John Henry now?

Rather than stick around and watch this team slowly deteriorate, which it's going to eventually, right? Like maybe it takes three years, maybe it takes five years, but it's eventually going to deteriorate to the point where we're looking at them like we're looking at Milwaukee. I was feeling good. we're looking, where we're going to look at them like we're looking at Milwaukee. I was feeling good. What the hell? We're going to be looking at them like we're looking at Milwaukee though at some point, right? Like because they're just going to be so, you know, financially stretched that they've

got to peel off some of these pieces and they're not going to be as good as they are right now. If you're with Grosbeck, like you went out on top and not only did you go out on top, you got the greatest exit strategy one could possibly have, which in the form of $6 billion dollars you can take your cut of and do something else. Like you've proven, you are a great NBA owner. You accomplished it. You can go on. You're still relatively young. I mean, you can go on and do the next thing if you really wanted to in professional sports. Yeah. I would say he was one of the most successful sports owners of this century.

I'd agree. He took a team that was, uh, had really no assets other than Pierce and no cap space and, um, was able to rebuild it. It's the, uh, the Pags piece of it. He didn't get the Pags piece. Well, he didn't get the nets. He ran for governor, didn't get that. And then everyone thought he was getting the Celtics and he didn't get that. He has the Italian soccer team, but, um, I just, he's gotta be dying today. Just dying.

But I, I think we all felt like this was probably coming. Like I had hit a point where I didn't, I wouldn't have bet on him. And I think a lot of people, but the thing that I'm going to be interested to see if it floats out over the next couple of days is did he have any chance was had this turned into a situation where they were like, we're just not selling to this guy. That's the next story is, you know, we, the next story to figure out. Right.

We, we talked about kind of relationship between WIC and PAGS is not what it once was like how strained have that relationship become? Had it reached a toxic level to the point where Wick Grousbeck was never going to be interested in selling the team to Pagliuca. Because that, I don't know, man, you don't release a statement like that unless you're really livid at how the whole thing played out. Well, and he released a statement right after they put the team for sale, right? He got one up that day too, Pat Glucka.

I'm in. He was the first one to get in to all that. He made it clear from jump that he wanted to be the guy that bought this team and took over its stewardship and second. And within minutes after it being announced as being sold, he had a much stronger statement that went out there. Yeah, I think that that's the next thing to figure out is like, was this just about money? Like the fact that South this would get a record $6.1 billion price and Hey, if you can't meet it, you can't meet it.

Or was there more to it? Was there, was the relationship between WIC and PAG something that, uh, affected the sale of the team? I would say yes. There's another piece of this expansion coming. That's now we've established a price, six billion, if you want in 12 billion teams split it 30 ways. That's $400 million in cash.

The owners get the, they don't share with the players. So Chisholm is buying in here at 6.1. He knows he's getting 400 billion back over the next couple of years with this expansion fee. So it's really five, seven, cause that's what, you know, that's what Cuban forfeited. That's what the gross specs forfeited by selling. Now, um, you get that money that maybe goes to luxury tax. I was trying to walk my dad off the ledge this morning.

Cause my dad's just like, the Luca thing is spooked. My dad, he was like, you can't say like the new Dallas owners, everything seemed great. And then they're trading Luca Dodge for a day and a first Max Christie. Like, yeah, I'm worried we're going to do something stupid now. I knew what we had with WIC and it's hard to talk someone off the ledge on that. I'm more worried though. No, worry is the wrong word. Like this year is going to play out how it's going to play out.

I think the peeling off is going to be the Housers. It's going to be maybe even a Derek White. The guys that you have ready-made replacements on the roster. Derek White, what are you doing to me? I'm not saying it's going to happen. I would say this though. I think that this team right now, as currently constructed, is only protected by championships. You win a championship this summer, ownership is going to bring it back. Right. You're not going to blow up a team that has a, you're not trading Jaylen Brown to the wherever no chance or even weeks after the title, or even someone like dark white. Like I think Sam Howes is probably gone.

Like the second he signed that contract, when you look at what the other contracts are going to be, like I was like, there's no way Sam Howser. I was more worried about Drew. Cause he was like low thirties and you know, the right team that wants a vet and you think you're the salts and you're like, this is kind of a luxury to have a guy like this, those are the, it's, it's in that white holiday grouping that could be the first to go unless I hope they keep Tadman Brown together forever. And I love having those guys as a combo.

And I think historically they have a chance to be something really special. Just two guys playing together their whole careers like that. One draft apart winning titles. Like that's how many pairings have done that? Like how many pairings have fallen apart before they got to that point? So, but you know, if you're paying $130 million a year for two guys, it's almost impossible. Yeah. I don't, I'm not concerned that something like breaking them up is on the table.

But again, I do think that you're going to see some guys whacked off the payroll. You saw Baylor go off the other night, like Sam Houser would be watching that. Like, all right, I'm out the door. Like that's right. That guy can do what I was doing. Like, I mean, that's that to me is what you're looking at in in the years to come. Now if it gets bad, like if they want to get beat in the second round, you know, for some reason, not this year, but like next year, then I could see it slowly start to be taken apart. But for right now, it's more about the ancillary pieces and what you can replace them with. Like,

look, they drafted Baylor and like, that was a surprise that they drafted him. They must've really believed in him because their payroll jumped a lot, you know, because of the guaranteed money that comes with a first round pick. They obviously believe in him and watching him go off against, was it the Nets the other night? Like that, maybe they're justified in believing that he can be the cheap alternative to Sam Howser and be your seventh, eighth, ninth man coming off your bench. Well, the team's in a weird spot.

They're stuck at second. You have Cleveland stuck at first and the Knicks probably stuck at third. And you have a month of the season left and all crappy teams for the most part on the schedule. And it's like, let's try to keep everyone healthy. Let's try to give these guys the minutes. They're doing this interesting strategy that they're trying the schedule. And it's like a, let's try to keep everyone healthy.

Let's try to give these guys the minutes. They're doing this interesting strategy with the best guys, Tatum and Brown, but the way they won't play them or they'll play them real minutes. They're not doing like play 25, like they're either playing them a playoff game minutes or not playing them. Um, and they have the luxury to do whatever they want and try to get Shireman and people like that going. I think they're, I just think they're better than the Knicks and that, if they

lost to the Knicks, that would be catastrophic because they've had their number all year and everything's heading toward this Cleveland series. And Cleveland's just lost three games in a row. And for the first time it's a, the Russian is cut. It's just a little bit of that. And I just think they feel like if everyone's healthy and KP's in there, we're going to be in the finals again. It seems to be the attitude, right?

Yes. That's the attitude in Boston. I would also tell you that there's not overconfidence in the front office or the coaching staff in Cleveland either. Like I just finished this story on kind of what Evan Mobley, but on a lot of a bunch of young guys in the NBA that are potential difference makers in the playoffs and talking to people in Cleveland, even though they're two and two against the Celtics during the regular season.

And they played really well in Boston coming back to win that game. They recognize that they have not yet gotten the Celtics best shot. Like they haven't gotten that championship round haymaker to make a boxing analogy. And they know that's coming. They have to figure out how they, they don't know yet how they respond to something like that. And look, the guy that worries them the most is Chris Dasporzingis because look, they've got Evan Mobley and Evan Mobley has been great all season long, but Evan Mobley does not play well against Christas Porzingis. You look at some of the numbers, they're not great.

And that's a matchup that the Cavs know they have to dominate. Like if it's a wash between Mobley and Porzingis, the Celtics win in six. Like they have to completely dominate that matchup between Mobley and Porzingis. And I'm not sure they're capable of doing that. I think Porzingis, when he's right, both ends of the floor is great.

So I think in Cleveland, they're happy with what they've done. No doubt about that. It's surprised by a lot of things, but they're not sitting there going like, we're whatever, 10 games up on Boston, we're 10 games better. They know that a conference final series is a totally different animal. Well, one other thing is they they kind of blew the home court against okay. See if they are able to get to the finals. They just lost that in five days.

No, they had a chance to basically control their own faith the whole way. And now, okay. See, and you know, they'll turn it on. So from a Celtic standpoint, that's potentially looming, uh, looming down the road. Um, I, I love the way Tatum is playing and, and, you know, for me, it's, I just want to know who's on the team in round two. Is KP there? Am I, am I reading stories from people like you with like, KP, hopefully in game three, he'll be back. Like if we're going down that road, I think it's gonna be really hard to win. Yeah. And then the West, who the F knows beyond OKC.

I've changed my mind 20 times in the last week. I think it's gonna be really hard to win. And then the West, who the F knows beyond OKC, I've changed my mind 20 times in the last week, even since we did the Sunday pot. Like I don't know what to expect in the West. So we'll see what happens. Can I just, just to put a button on the sale and the team. Al Horford is the first big test, right? Like Al Horford, his contract's up, right?

The end of this year, like he's still invaluable, right? Like the Horford, his contract's up, right? At the end of this year, like, he's still invaluable, right? Like the way he's playing, you gotta bring him back. Like how much are they willing to spend? Is it a no-brainer bringing back at a two-year deal at kind of similar money as he made last time around, which is gonna cost you a ton of money as well? Like that to me is the first test of how much this ownership group is willing to spend on this team because he's going to cost you something in real

money over the course of a new deal. Well, and there's been, if you look at the history of the team, there's been some out-whorford moments over the years where most of the time they've let the guy go and kept their fingers crossed. In this case, you could make a case he's the most beloved Celtic teammate that we've seen. I was trying to think, I was talking to somebody about this, about has anybody more loved by the people that play with him and coach him than Al Horford? Like that Laker game was so fascinating when the Lakers were going at him and he started talking shit and Tatum was talking shit.

And apparently there was just a lot of shit talking on both sides. They kept going at Al, he's talking shit and Tatum was talking shit. And apparently there was just a lot of shit talking on both sides. They kept going at Al, he's talking shit. And when he came out of that game, the bench like went like crazy. They were so fired. They just absolutely love him. Um, and I think that would be a really tough one to leave. That's even, that's not James Posey. We want a title with you.

Oh, that'd suck if you left. This is like, he's in the fabric. Tatum and Brown grew up with the dude, you, it would suck if you left. This is like, he's in the fabric. Tatum and Brown grew up with the dude. You know, so you're right, that's probably the first big test. My feeling is if you spend that amount of money on a team and you want to impress people in the city you grew up with, you're probably going to spend money the first couple years.

But we've seen these new owners come in and they're absolutely nuts. Here are my ideas. We're going to do this. We're going to zag when everybody's zigging. And it's like that, oh boy, here we go. They're still doing it. They're still doing it. Like Matt Ishby did that ridiculous ESPN interview where he was talking about,

we're building around Devin Booker and he's the guy we're gonna keep like, not to take this a different direction, but Devin Booker is too old to win a championship in Phoenix. Simple as that. Like he's not too old to win a championship or lead a Simple as that. Like he's not too old to win a championship or lead a team to a championship.

He's too old to lead that team to a championship. Because it would be five years from now. Yes, because he's eight. Look, he's aged, next season is age 29 season next year. Like now is the time you did, like now was the time to sell the Celtics as a franchise, to kind of bring these two together. Now is the time to sell the team.

Now is the time to deal Devin Booker. If Houston comes a call in with all your draft capital, offering it back. If Oklahoma City calls and says, here's three or four players plus three or four draft picks, you are crazy if you're a Phoenix and not doing that. That's some of the new owner craziness that's still out there in the league. You think there's a new arena in 10 years? Yes. Yes. Yes. I do too. I don't see, we should have talked about that sooner. I don't see how you spend this kind of money, but then also don't buy, build an arena. There's also places you can build it. Like the seaports become cool again.

Like it wasn't when, you know, I was younger and probably when you were younger back there, but now it's become like this cool place opposite Southie and there's room to do stuff down there. There's stuff near 93 that, that the place they were looking at for the Olympics. If you go back and read the Olympic stories from 2014, there's a specific spot like past where, um, where Emerson plays soccer and lacrosse. Like when you're driving by going toward the Cape, there's this whole section that is the spot that they're going to make like the hub of the Olympics.

And I feel like that, I think it's called like the rail yard or something. Um, I think that's where the arena would go. That's really the only open spot that's in the city in the right way. Um, or it could be seaport, but I mean, seaports already really hard to get to back and forth now for putting 19,000 fans there will be a little rough. They'd have to reinvent the, the, the T there and the T there and figure out new stops that go into that area. I would put it right on the other side of the hill in Charlestown.

We're going right in the town. Like 12,000 seat arena, let's fucking go. I mean, that would be- We're taking our mojo back. I would love to see it, but there's just no way, you're not buying this team and like renegotiating your lease for TD garden, which already by NBA arena standards is old. It's bottom third in the league in terms of, of, of,

Well, there's another, there's another possibility of it too, where you can, there's a second part of this where you try to buy the Jacob side and the Bruins and the arena and try to own everything because if they leave that arena, the Bruins are screwed, right? They have this 35 year old, when was, when was fleet center? 95. I think it was my first year. My first year as a ball boy with the team. Was the first year. So 30 year old arena, and then you're going to lose your basketball team in like

2005 years. That I don't see it. It's not enough. You two concerts you could put in there that we. Manix before we go. Where am I with Bacoli? Oh, he's back. May 3rd.

May 3rd. You told me, you told me not to bet on him. I did. You told me it was a money grab. I did. You told me he was flying cross, across the world and had 14 hours for the fight and was just going to try to throw some bombs and it probably wasn't looking great, but he was getting paid more than he's ever been paid in his life.

So I didn't sell any of my stock on your advice, but I'm still a little worried because he's got his ass kicked. I'd be less worried because it wasn't like a, you know, eight round ass kicking, he took a shot at the top of the head that completely discombobulated him. And you saw his trainer, Billy Nelson. I mean, I have Olympic gymnasts have not gone up on an apron fast than Billy Nelson got up there to throw the towel in right there. Like he was, he knew he was of the early stoppages ever. He was ready to throw that in because his guy did

his job. When that first bell rang, Martin Bacoli had done his job. It was hilarious covering that out there because Billy Nelson flew from Scotland where he lives and usually trains Bacoli over to Riyadh. But Bacoli had to fly like premium economy through a connection because what I was told, like the Congo doesn't allow private jets in on like short notice. You can't just fly a private jet in and out of the Congo. So he had to fly like Ethiopian air, a connection through Ethiopia to get there. He got in literally two o'clock in the morning. There was no chance on God's earth. The fight that day before the fight, two in the morning, the day of the fight,

like two in the morning, the day of the fight, Saturday morning, two a.m. He got in. And of course, they have him doing like three interviews. It gets there. Like, let the fucking guy go to bed and try to get some rest before he's got to report to work in 12 hours. I'm not I wouldn't sell your stock. He's fighting on May 3rd on this Canelo undercard over in Riyadh. He's fighting FAA Jogba again. They're keeping that fight there. He's fully capable of beating FAA Jogba. He didn't take really, I mean, he took one good shot. He flew over from the Congo and took one good shot, got out, got a paycheck, which

I thought I heard was about 3 million bucks. And, you know, I was able to go back to work the next day. So I'd still keep my Martin Bacoli stock. He's going to weigh in the two hundreds for this next fight. It's probably going to be a job. But I think we're once again talking about him a second half of this year. I didn't tell you, but I put a small bet on cause I was in Boston for that fight. I tried, I tried to tell you. I know, but I can't not bet Bacoli KO.

It's like a blind bet. I'm just betting it every time I had to do it. So Canelo May 3rd, are we excited for that fight? Uh, I don't know. That was your answer. When do we get Canelo Crawford? September. So Canelo Crawford, like the worst kept secret in boxing is that Canelo

Crawford is happening in September. It's going to be promoted by this new Dana White, Saudi Arabia, Nik Khan promotional company. And it's gonna be on Netflix. Like that's gonna be a Netflix event in September. And there'll be some big names on that. This whole card on May, it's entirely designed to get Canelo that fourth title back.

William Skoll has that belt. So you get in that belt pack, you can say Canelo is the undisputed champ going to get his Crawford, the two time undisputed champ. It just helps sell the fight. Like that's, that's, that's really what that card is for. It is going to be in prime time though. I think it's interesting. Like they're going to fight.

Saturday night. Yeah. They're going to fight and read at like 9 AM is what I heard or nine to 10 o'clock in the morning to make it prime time over in the U S so it will be a good time for us audiences to watch. Maybe not so much for the guys fighting on the undercard who might be fighting at 5 a.m., but it'll be interesting that that timing and the NFL will have started at that point in college football will be going.

So it's going to be an insane weekend. Well, we'll see how much boxing Netflix does. So Netflix- They're definitely intrigued that that Tyson fight, I think was a jaw dropper for them. And it seems like they're going to be dabbling a little bit more. So their plan, what I was told was to do

like one big event a quarter. Like that's the mindset of Netflix. Like they're not going to try to be disowned or HBO was in two fights every weekend. That's not their bag. But they are doing this Katie Taylor Amanda Serrano trilogy fight at MSG. That's July 11th. That's going to be on Netflix. Like I said, I think the, yeah, 100% sure at this point that the Cadella Crawford fight is going to be on Netflix. They're also after Anthony Joshua

Tyson Fury. Like that's a fight they want to put on, which is such a huge global event. They'd love to get their hands on that for either end of this year or early next year, whenever Tyson Fury decides to rejoin the, the boxing rank. So one per quarter right now is my understanding of what Netflix wants to do. So what's the fight of the year? If you had to bet, if you have to bet on one, like the best fight, can all the fight of the year. No, just what's going to be 2025 is the fight of the year when it's December 31st.

So Canelo Crawford's not going to be it. No. I actually think Canelo's too big, too strong, too good. Well, I'm dying to see a Devin Haney, Ryan Garcia rematch. Dying. So those two guys, like that weekend, I'm gonna be in New York working the three fight card that's in Times Square.

That's gonna be on the zone. And Ryan's at the top of the bill, Devin's at the co-main event. Both those guys running against opponents that they can and should beat. And that would set up the rematch between them. And like given what happened in the first fight- This time we're not cheating the rematch this time. No, I'm not rematch this time. We're using multiple Ryan Garcia, because

Ryan Garcia believes that he was screwed by the testing agency that caught him. He's using two now he's using the one that that did it the first time because he has to and he's using another one to test him just to get verified information that he that he believes but that's a big one That's two 25 year old six year old guys with a lot of bad blood like the most bad blood that we have Restore is gonna be awesome. Like I'm all in for that. All right Manix great to see you. You too. Thank you. Yeah. All right. Thanks to McShay. Thanks to Manix Thanks to Surya and Gahal and Kyle as As always, I hope your March Madness brackets go great. Don't forget to check out Good Hang with Amy Poehler,

two episodes up. Rewatchable, Stays in Thunder. Prestige TV, if you missed White Lotus, that's up there. And then Celtic City, episode four, coming Monday night on HBO and Max Lerriberg shows up. And guess what? He was really good at basketball. So that's what we got.

I will see you on a Sunday. I'm the wayside, I'm the brunson, I never want to say it. I don't have. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit Gambling Help Line, MA.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-8778-HOPENY or text HOPENY in New York.