The Bill Simmons Podcast - The Maxey Game, T-Wolves Fans, Underrated NFL Teams, and a Boston Sports Check-In With Sean Fennessey, Nate Tice, and Bill's Dad

Episode Date: May 1, 2024

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Sean Fennessey to discuss the way Tyrese Maxey and the 76ers pulled out an incredible Game 5 win over the Knicks and where that game ranks among the most improbable playoff losses in NBA history (2:36). Then Bill is joined by Nate Tice of The Athletic and Yahoo Sports to discuss Anthony Edwards and the Timberwolves (27:41), why he was so high on Drake Maye, and post-draft underrated NFL teams (42:00). Finally, Bill is joined by his dad for a Boston sports check-in, mostly focused on the Celtics and the Patriots (1:18:16). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Sean Fennessey, Nate Tice, and Bill's Dad Producer: Kyle Crichton The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming up, just an incredible, incredible, incredible ending to Nick Sixers, plus a lot of football and my dad next. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this, it's game day.

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Put up a new Rewatchables on Monday night. Me and Kyle Brandt did The Running Man. We had a great time. What a fun movie. Arnold Schwarzenegger predicting the future. That's basically what that movie's about. You can watch that eventually on youtube.com slash Bill Simmons,

where we put up all the Rewatchables. We're also brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook, where on Wednesdays, we do a little profit boost token, where if you make an NBA bet and it wins, you get 30% of a boost. So I'm going to tweet out some sort of bet that I like on Wednesday on my Twitter feed. Coming up on this podcast a little bit later, Nate Tice is going to talk football with us. We're going to talk quarterbacks. We're going to talk Drake May. We're going to talk about his three or four teams

in the NFL that he feels are undervalued right now as we head toward the summer and everybody trying to figure out NFL futures. Really fun talk with him. I brought my dad on at the tail end to talk about the Boston Celtics and the New England Patriots and our new QB. And then coming out of the gate,

Sean Fennessey. He's popped on this pod a few times, you know, from the rewatchables and the big picture. He is just an absolutely furious, angry Knicks fan. We had to bring on a true fan to talk about that Knicks-Sixers game, which was absolutely unbelievable, incredible.

And I had initially planned on talking about Orlando-Cleveland, which, by the way, was a great game. Cleveland ends up winning on an Evan Mobley block. I'm feeling good about my Mobley stock, but Palo was great,

and that was a really nice back-and-forth game. Milwaukee-Indiana, which I'm feeling good about my mobile stock, but Palo was great, and that was a really nice back-and-forth game. Milwaukee-Indiana, which I'm taping my intro right as that game's going on, but it seems like Milwaukee's going to win and send it back to Indiana for game six. We'll see if that happens. But

fantasy, we had to do Knicks, and we had to bring in fantasy. So he's talking from the fans' perspective. Don't take anything he says personally. But he is coming up next. So he is talking from the fans perspective. Don't take anything he says personally, but he is coming up next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're taping this first part of the podcast. It's past 7.40 Pacific time.

The Cavs just beat the Magic. Tough loss for our guy, Steve Cerruti, but an even tougher loss for our guy, Sean Fantasy, who's here. One of the most improbable playoff losses I can ever remember. And we'll see if it matters, Sean, because sometimes these happen and then the team wins the series anyway

and it just becomes a blip. And hopefully for your sake and the sake of the Knicks fans, that's going to happen. But that was about as improbable and crazy of a loss as I've seen. Walk us through what you're feeling. Well, as you know,

I don't actually have a lot of experience with the loss like that. The Knicks just have not had a lot of gut-wrenching playoff losses in the last 30 years. They've obviously had a few in the mid-90s that were devastating. But when those were happening,

I was like 12 years old. It takes me back. It takes me back. It takes me back to Charles Smith. It takes me back to those painful moments when you felt like it was within your grasp. This one's a little tough because I really want this Sixers team to be burned alive. I really hate them. And I just really want this series to be over and there's a sick part of me that's just like, you know what?

Go to the second round. If you win against Pacers, great. If you lose, fine. But I have just grown to despise and be in awe of Tyrese Maxey and I just don't want to have to see him anymore. I'm just sick of it. I'm feeling really

sad and also kind of just stunned and unable to get who played at the Knicks. Anywhere the camera is going, there's just like three more people are like, oh, him. Oh, those guys. And it just felt like, holy shit, to have this game in game two. The Knicks are officially alive. And then in a heartbeat, it changed. Yeah, there was a moment, I think it was at like 59 seconds when they went up six. And there was a cutaway to the crowd. And you saw LJ. And you saw Spree.

And you saw Starks. And you saw Patrick Ewing sitting down. And people were reaching. Oh, yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Yeah, reaching over and grabbing him by the shoulder and clutching him. And I was sitting there with my three-year-old. And I was like, that's Patrick Ewing. This is the Knicks.

It was a really genuine emotional moment. And I never would have thought... I shouldn't say that. I felt confident that they were going to win the game. And the way that they let it slip through their fingers is just maddening. I mean, you know, I actually don't know... I could recount every single moment that just happened, but each one that happened had to happen

for it to become a bad loss. Now, you know, like in the grand scheme of things, you're right. They're up 3-2. They were up 3-1. I think they've basically outplayed and out-hustled the Sixers this entire series, and I expect them to do the same thing in Game 6. But just replaying that last minute in my head,

I feel like I'm getting a migraine. It hurts very, very hard. Yeah, because Max, he made a couple shots when it felt like you had the game. But then the 106-100, less than 30 seconds left, timeout, 28.2 left, which is, I think, the exact same time of Heat-Spurs game six, 2019, I think was also 28.2. I'm not positive, but I'm like 99% positive. The Ray Allen shot? Yeah. Well, it was the plays that led up to the Ray Allen shot. Right, right.

They come out of the timeout and Robinson's out there, which I just thought was weird because at that point you just have to have guards and small forwards and everybody's switching on everything. So they set a pick on him. He comes back around and fouls Maxie. And they're like, oh, that's two. His foot was on the line. They showed the replay. It wasn't. The random four-point play.

So now you have the LJ four-point play energy. It's suddenly in the game. It goes from six points to two. And that was one. And then the other was Maxie then hits the second one after the heart missed free throw, reminiscent of the Ray Allen game where, you know, Manu had to miss the free throw to basically get a go and then Kawhi missed a free throw. But the Maxie two threes, reminiscent of the Reggie Miller hit the two threes in the playoff

game game. So you dip back into Nick's history for two of the craziest Nick playoff games at MSG ever. And it both happens in 25 seconds. On all of my text chains, the Mitchell Robinson point is percolating hard right now because he honestly was great in the final five minutes of the game leading up to that final minute. He was denying the entry on Embiid. He forced a bunch of turnovers. He was knocking the ball loose left and right. He played really well. He's obviously not 100%. But in that situation,

I even would rather just have Hartenstein out there. I think he is a better option in a situation like that because he's just more limber and he's not going to make a lurching foul like that. And credit to Maxie. He's just a sorcerer tonight. He was unbelievable. He was like the roadrunner out there.

No one could catch him. He was hitting crazy shots. And yeah, it did feel... It felt karmic for game two. Obviously, a lot of things broke their way game two. And then there has been some crazy luck in the Knicks direction and some crazy luck against the Knicks over the years in games like this. The Garden, with one minute left,

that seemed as crazy as it was ever going to be. And then by the end of regulation, that's got to be as much as the wind has ever been taken out of their sails. Did anybody see that series coming? Maxie finishes with 46. In the two threes he makes, he scores seven points in the last 28 seconds on two possessions, which is basically impossible. I don't even know if that's happened before in a big playoff game. I'd be interested.

I know that they can run all the numbers, but just somebody scoring seven points on two possessions to tie a game, I'd be interested to see if that happened before. The second three is really hard to accept, though, because the move was obviously to foul there and to not get a foul in that situation is just, it's a blunder.

I don't know if that's Tibbs' fault or if they just couldn't execute or what happened. But he should never be able, I mean, it was an amazing 35-foot three-pointer from the top of the key. Yeah. But he shouldn't be taking that shot.

They shouldn't allow that to happen. And they did. Well, but that's what's crazy about those two threes. The first one, he's completely off-balance, getting fouled, then just heaves it up

and it goes in. But those are the ones, like, those those never go in and then the second one he shoots it because he doesn't want to get fouled and i'm gonna say that was a 32 footer but that's about as great with when you're talking about your seasons on the line basically and you have to make it that's up there if they win the series that will go up there with one of the great shots. Just cause like I was watching on Twitter, they, they ran a, the other day they ran Jerry West made that shot in the 1970 finals to Bush or scores in LA with like five seconds left and the Lakers inbound it. They don't have any timeouts. And West just is like, I guess I'll just have to make this 65 footer or whatever it was. And he just makes it. Um,

the maxi thing was a little like that because if he misses that, the season's over and he buried it. It's not like it bounced around. It was like swish. Well, it also he did it with like eight and a half seconds on the clock. So just from a strategic perspective, like it was crazy because he was trying to avoid getting fouled, but he also left a lot of time on the clock. There could have been a big rebound bouncing, kicking out, giving them another opportunity. And I will say the Sixers, after getting their asses kicked on the boards all series,

kind of outworked the Knicks in the second half of this game. The Knicks were not good at rebounding in the second half. But anyway, he hits that shot and they still have a chance. And Brunson is blazing down

the court with eight seconds left and he just gets his shot blocked at the end of regulation. I didn't love that last possession. Did you have a timeout left or no? I don't remember. Yeah, I don't. I didn't love that last shot by him.

Poor Brunson ends up 15 for 32. He has 40 points again and gets outshined. Outshone? He used to be an editor. Outshone or outshined? I used to be a writer. For the purposes of Soundgarden acknowledgement, we'll say outshined. That's a great Soundgarden

jam. Gets outshined by Tyrese Maxey. So I have two different things for you. One is, I just off the top of my head, I did a tiny bit of research, but most improbable losses. And I think this is different than craziest losses, comeback losses, great shots.

These are games that I specifically remember watching, thinking the game was over, and not even in the back of my head thinking the other team was going to come back. So that Ray Allen shot we mentioned, that game was a wrap. They're putting the rope around the court. Bird steals the ball.

It was at that game. He missed the shot. Ball goes out of bounds. Five seconds left, and we're all devastated. We think the game's over. The Derek Fisher shot is a really underrated one for this because that swung who went to the finals. And by the way, every

shot I'm going to give you is somebody who went to the finals. Duncan makes a crazy one-legged I don't know. I can't remember if it was a three or a long two, but it goes in. Lakers go. They're down one with 0.4 seconds left leading to that crazy Fisher shot that swings the series Lakers go on to lose to the Pistons but that was a good Spurs team and then the Reggie Miller two straight

threes where they're up six tied then the foul the offensive foul on Starks after the rebound, and all of a sudden, the Knicks are winning. So here's the thing. Out of those other five, Maxie from the logo would be the six.

But the other five, the team won the series. If Philly doesn't win the series, I think this just becomes a really funny, it's been a classic game, and that's it. Yeah, we're in prisoner

of the moment territory right now. This is the first round. It just feels more consequential because the Knicks are never in this situation. This has been an incredible series. Every single game has been a barn burner. I think the point differential for the entire series is plus two for the Sixers.

That just means that everything has been exciting about it. I've never seen, just like you, I've never seen a guy score seven points in 28 seconds in the way that he did. It was remarkable and devastating. And you know, OG Ananobi missed

free throw. Josh Hart missed free throw. Josh Hart was short armor the first one. And it was his second short armor of the quarter. He did something earlier in the quarter too. They missed a bunch of free throws. Brunson was gassed. He missed a free throw. I can't not

bring up Embiid, though, who is just like a punk bully bitch who I cannot believe is allowed to play in the NBA. Him

getting a flagrant foul up for with 90 seconds left in an overtime game. That's do or die is one of the corniest, the loseriest things I've ever seen. Hitting a six foot guard in the face on a critical play in overtime. It does. You have brain damage. Like what the hell was that?

After mailing in one of the most pathetic efforts that I've ever seen from a superstar in a closeout game, what a dickhead. Like, what was that? Like, what Sixers fan is going to be like, that was cool. He hit Brunson in the face with up four.

That was awful. That's a bad look for the league. Yeah. How'd you feel about it? Are there people in Philadelphia right now who are like, Embiid is my favorite player? Like, what the fuck was that, Bill? Well, I was monitoring this.

He had nine turnovers in the fourth quarter. And then he had two more turnovers. But somehow the number stayed at nine. But I'm positive he had two more after I looked and it was nine. He was seven for 19 for the game. He played some good defense in the OT. Um, but he was so sloppy with the ball. There were, there were moments where, I mean, it felt like he could have had even more turnovers than he had. And it just felt like this is one of the crazy things about this game. If Philly just loses, if Maxie misses that shot from the logo,

that might have been Embiid's last game for the Sixers. That might have been the end of the process. There are all these sliding door scenarios where then the spotlight's on him. It's like, what the fuck was that game? You had nine turnovers. You made five shots. What did you do? And the OT kind of got it back and now there could be a

different narrative of that guy's a worrier he played hurt the whole game he came through in the OT he had some big defensive positions on Brunson but it felt like he had basically had a fork in him until the maxi seven pointer. He didn't seem

like he could really hold the ball in the fourth quarter. It kept getting poked out of his hands in the final six minutes of the game. He's obviously insanely talented. He rejected Brunson aggressively in OT on that one drive that was pretty critical in the game.

I don't know. Everything is just very stage managed with him. The alert that he had a migraine and he was questionable for the game before the game. Putting out the Bell's palsy news after he tugged at Mitchell Robinson's ankle. He's just a clown. A totally stage managed social media

clown. And he's a great player, of course, but I just really, really hope they put them to bed in Philadelphia. I really do. Because I'm sick of hearing about him. I hope this is the end of the process. I'm sick of hearing about all of that crap. I give it up completely to Tyrese

Maxey, who is an amazing player and an unbelievable down-the-line superstar. I really have grown to despise Embiid, as you know, over the course of the last two weeks. It's crazy that you like him less than Kyle Lowry, who's one of your least favorite

athletes. Well, there's no secret about that. Kyle Lowry is not trying to be like, I'm the best guy in the league. I'm a super nice guy. He's a 38-year-old veteran who's made his entire career on playing this way. And Bede is bigger than everybody and is literally hitting six-foot-tall guys on the head. If a defensive end hits a quarterback on the head, he's ejected from the game and suspended. Like this is, what are we doing? You know, Larry had a good one.

Brunson was taking big free throws. I think at the end of regulation, I can't remember, but Larry used to do this during the Celtics too. So I was watching for it. He's on the bench and right. You know, it was when,

uh, it was the flagrant when he had the two free throws with nobody around. And Larry's on the side. And right as Brunson's about to shoot, Lowry waves his hand, starts yelling instructions. He's doing that thing. It's like, oh, you needed to do this literally right now on the first of two free throws.

But that's the kind of shit he does. He walks into people's sight lines. He's just all about the gamesmanship. It didn't work in that case. But the difference is, if Lowry played for the Knicks, we would worship him. And if Embiid played for the Knicks,

I would be disappointed. That's really where it's at. I don't want to root for somebody who's basically picking on people. With Lowry, he's trying to stay alive in the game. He's using every trick in the book. It's annoying, obviously.

It's really hard to watch. Well, one, he's just putting a number on Devo. Like, DiVincenzo, no one's really talking about this, but, like, he was their second or third best offensive player for the last two months of the season. He's averaged eight points a game in the series. Like, he's not, he has not done anything.

So he's obviously giving them problems. 3 for 10 today. Oubre has played really well, you know? Batum played really well today, too. Batum was shadowing Brunson all game. Guys who you don't really think about as serious playoff players are playing really well in this series.

But yeah, I don't know. I've been making a sincere effort to not drink alcohol during the week. This is something that I'm doing in my 40s. And I immediately poured myself a tall glass of gin immediately after this game. Nick's played seven guys today. Deuce McBride played 33

minutes and his hit when he launches jumpers, the entire crowd screams Deuce. So congrats to him. He is the man. Is he not the man? Bogdanovich out for the playoffs. Randall's obviously gone. Robinson's playing hurt. He didn't play precious tonight

and nobody else on the roster I guess is going to play. So this is it. You're rolling with seven guys from now on. Seven minute rotation is tough. And the defense changeup point is key because he was the only other guy who could kind of create a shot himself. OG can sort of try to do it

but it doesn't, you know, and Deuce can do it if he's coming off a pick but you really felt it in the OT. It was just like, all right, Jalen, one more time. It's just the same play over and over and over and over again, you know? I don't know if that's Jalen calling his number. I assume it is. You could feel that a little bit in the OT

that he wasn't really going to let anyone else shoot. They weren't really working their offense. They were only working the Jalen offense, which is a little hard to watch. But also, if you just watched even Tenzo go for three for ten for the fourth straight game, like I'm not sure what other choice he has. Oh, gee, I don't know. Oh, gee, I was a little down on the first couple games.

I felt like they needed to give him more. He's been pretty damn good. He had a couple of moments in the fourth quarter of this game that were breathtaking. Like he had the he had the garden in his hands at one point. I don't know. They're just, you know, they're missing Randall like you can just see that they're missing they're missing an offensive player they need a guy right now and they just don't have him and so it's gonna be great duran will be able to carry some of the load i i was told devin booker wants to come and you know when i was on with you

and howard a few few weeks ago i think we were dream casting the potential that's been the rumor for four years i mean his guys are running the Knicks, so everybody is... Let's pick up Bogey's option. We'll trade Bogey and three first-rounders straight up for Booker. Who says no? Probably going to have to include some more stuff in that. Deuce McBride, untouchable.

Devo, untouchable. Josh Hart, untouchable. Precious, untouchable. OG, untouchable. Jalen, untouchable. Mitch. Isaiah Hartenstein, re-signed. So bogey and picks. Who says no? It's looking Durant-ish, I would say more. Maybe you're shopping in the Durant aisle. So if you win this game, Brunson Mania goes up seven levels. This becomes a legendary Knicks series. Knicks are back.

We're taping this before the end of Indiana Milwaukee. I assume Indiana's going to get to the next round. The process is dead. I don't know what happens to Embiid. We talk about his near quadruple-double. That's one of the things that people remember about the game, plus Brunson. Daryl Morey probably, I don't know what happens to him, but it's probably not awesome

considering Harden's peaking for the Clippers right now. Everything he got from that trade is basically Nick Batum. He got, you know, a, a wing defender for James Harden and a pick, which I support,

but I'm just saying right now, this moment, if I own the Sixers, I'd be like, Hey, what about when we traded that James Harden guy who was just killing Dallas the other night? Darryl should have been forced to walk the plank into the Hudson river if

they lost in five in New York. Or at least sat with Latrell Sprewell. And who's Latrell with? I think it was with LJ, right? Yeah. But now everything flips and we'll see. What do you think is going to happen? Come on, you've seen this a million times. What do you think is going to happen? Do they spit the bit?

Here's my fear for you. God damn it. Sometimes in sports, when you hit rock bottom, shout out to rock bottom month on the rewatchables, by the way, you did a couple, uh,

when you hit rock bottom and it just seems bleak and it just seems like the door is slammed shut on whatever era you're in, whatever season you're in. And then something like truly crazy happens. Sometimes it has a tendency to flip something. And I'm wondering, did you know, cause I don't believe for like in basketball, especially it's not like baseball. Like we've seen baseball series where somebody loses a game like this and they're just fucking

shell shocked for the rest of the way. and they can't come back from it. Basketball, especially the three-pointers, you can come back. My fear is something special is now happening with Maxie. And this was the Brunson series. And now we've moved into the Maxie series because you haven't really shown you can defend him. So my guess would be you'd probably put OG on him, right? I think they'd be afraid of the fouls, but he was even going by OG. I mean, there's nobody on the team who can keep up with him. I'm trying to... So are you saying

that this game was our Manchester by the Sea? Which rock-bottom movie was this? I think it's hardcore. I think now you're at the point where you have to dress up like a porn producer to change the momentum of it. You just got to put a wig on and a tie-dye shirt. You just got to get Devin Booker to come in

and audition for the role. Yeah. I'm Jim Jism. You might be right. That's my fear is that sometimes this will happen where the rock bottom happens, miracle something, and then it flips. But I think that would have to

a piece of that would have to be just playing better and not throwing the ball to the other team two to three times a quarter and protecting the boards which he did a little better job today. And I thought in the OT he was a little energized defensively. So does that continue?

They put a lot of minutes on him. When are you playing again again is it thursday night or friday night thursday yeah thursday night so two nights later he's got to play but you've put some miles in it's one of the most fascinating first round series we've had i mean you talk about like start to finish the five games were all really fun to watch i have no idea what's going to happen now and uh the knicks are both back and the Knicks are back. We'll see which one. We'll see which one counts.

Really, really quickly. If the Knicks go to Philly and lose and then lose in Game 7 in New York, do you think that that radically changes the future of what they... Will they panic and do something that significantly alters what is clearly one of the most beloved Knicks teams in decades? Like this is my favorite team of the century right now. And I worry that there would be an overreaction relative to this experience. I don't think it changes whatever the plan was. The plan was if we can get a superstar, we will.

That was going to happen whether they made the Eastern Finals or not. I think the only thing that it might shift is maybe you're a little less precious about keeping all three Villanova guys together. Like if DiFincenzo is this bad the whole playoffs, you know, and he's like the deal breaker in a trade to get somebody awesome, maybe you don't blink in the same way on that one.

But when you think like Randall out, Bogdanovich, your big trade deadline piece out, Alec Burks tragically passed away. Oh no, he's still alive. He's just on the bench. Manchester by the sea too. Alec Burks' demise. Yeah. I don't know what happened to him.

So I would say I don't think what happened to him. So I would say, I don't think they would overreact to it. But the bummer would be, holy shit, we had this amazing moment. We had the next round coming where we were going to either play probably Indiana

or a Milwaukee team with a banged up Giannis. And how did we squander this? And then just, you know, you've done this with sports. you've done this with sports. I've done this with sports. These sequences where you just watch them for the rest of your life going,

how the fuck? Why? Like, I'm still upset that McKayla Parrish didn't box out Kareem in Game 4 of the 87 Finals. I'm still upset. It's 37 years later. I'm still upset about it.

In fairness, that is the NBA Finals. I'm trying to about it. In fairness, that is the NBA finals. I'm trying to keep a level head. This is obviously the first round. It's a good reset. You're right. When you texted me, I texted you right back. I'm immediately just flashing on the worst possible outcomes here. Will this be the turning point that is just

tremendously painful? I don't know. I hope not. I worry that you're right. I'm just terrified of Maxie. Terrified. I think he is just a baller. Do you want to apologize for anything you said about Joel Embiid or no? No, fuck him. No. Sean Fennessey, great to see you. You can hear Sean in the big picture and on the rewatchables on Monday. Thanks, Bill.

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You can read him on Yahoo. You can hear him on The Athletic and on Yahoo too as well. We've never done a pod together. We've never met until like 10 minutes ago, but it's nice to meet you. Nice to meet you as well. Thanks for having me.

Got my Wolves shirt on because I feel like someone's got to represent on here. You know, I forgot. I didn't even. That's like a bonus thing we can talk about. It's great. It's great. Anthony Edwards brought me to tears the other night.

When did you see it with him? When did you think like this actually has a chance? This guy has a chance to maybe be the MVP of the league. There was an MVP of the league, I would say, maybe last summer. Once you kind of heard him kind of get with the international stuff and hearing how others were talking about him. I was like, yes, I knew it. I knew it because it's a combination of athleticism and personality,

just like what everyone's seeing right now. But like that combo, the rare athleticism, and then just his personality right away, rookie year, he was doing interviews and being around sports. I was kind of like, yeah, this guy's gonna be different and was i think an mvp maybe not but at least like this guy could be maybe like a real awesome dunk contest kind of winner you know all-star a couple times at the very least but it's been above and beyond even my wildest dream so far if i'm being honest honest. And you're a lifelong Timberwolves fan? I was a Sonics fan growing up, and then they moved.

So I'm a Mariners, Wolves fan, and Golden Knights for hockey. Maybe the world's only of that trio, but that's what my trio is. How old were you when the Sonics moved? I was in middle school, high school. Middle school, high school. That's just brutal, man. Yeah, so that one high school. And it's just brutal, man. Yeah. So that,

yeah, that one stock. And it was right after they drafted Durant. I, I, I love Durant. And then, yeah,

it was, and I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. Then I couldn't do the switcheroo. They did everything. The name change, everything. So I picked up the wolves and it was great timing.

You know, it was great timing to be a wolf pad. Well, you pick, it's not like you jumped on the bandwagon with the wolves. They were terrible. No. Never have. And now I got the Mariners. I had the two longest droughts for a while

for the playoffs. I had that combo going on. But it's great now. We got Julio. We got Anthony Edwards. Anthony Richardson for the Colts too. But things are good. Things are good. It's worth it. Well, that Minnesota-Denver series,

I think Denver, I think Vandal has them at 2-1 as the favorites, and I think that feels right, but I also, it might be the rare I might want to watch a game before I even think about making a prediction. Such a hard one to figure out. And the Wolves kind of, they're one of the

few teams that match up well. They do. So that's why I'm as optimistic as you can be going against the Nuggets, even though our head coach is now not even showing up. He's giving the thumbs up through the window because he just popped his patella tendon, which is a nice, fun injury. That's a good one. Everybody wants that.

That's why, I mean, that's about as painful of a knee injury as you can have, right? It is. It has to be. That or just you just shatter everything. You know, you get the Livingston. Like, but that, yeah. I mean, you could tell, too.

When you get the look, they got the prayer circle going on, going around them. So that's what I was. I was like, okay, it wasn't a heart attack, was it? And it was like, okay, it was knee. Okay, okay, okay. All right. But still, it's just, yeah, not fun. At least we get to see some of the assistant coach getting in there

because he's like one of the best interviews in the in the nba so everyone gets to enjoy that well rusello was saying on sunday night you see it happen with like college football and nfl sometimes where the coach gets wiped out but it never happens in basketball having my dad yeah against the giants on a punt. A guy like a gunner got blocked into him as he was pointing and yelling at something. I think he tore his MCL. I've seen Joe

Joppa. That's another one. I'm trying to think who else I've seen it happen to. Joppa went to the booth for his. I know. NBA is a new one. NBA is a new one. Joe Paterno went to the booth for his. Jesus. Yeah. I know.

NBA is a new one. NBA is a new one. Hey, one last rant question. Have you ever thought about if the Sonics never leave, how different his career would be? Yeah. I think the more I think about it, I think I mentioned this on a pod last week,

but the more I think about it, I do think, and I did my book of basketball in 2009, I did the 33 biggest what ifs in the history of the league. Yeah. And now if I was doing that again, I think Durant's involved in two more historical what ifs that would be probably in the top 25.

What is, what if the Sonics never leave? And then the other one would be, what if the cap spike in 2016 never happened? And he couldn't have jumped to the, like, how does that just play out in the middle of the 2010s? But him staying in Seattle,

I think he's still there. I don't think he ever leaves. They win titles. I think he's the most popular Seattle athlete ever. I mean, it'd be bad on Griffey, but then Griffey. Griffey never won a World Series. I know, but yeah, I mean, you gotta look at what Seattle sports is.

Yeah, you got the Seahawks teams, but that felt like more of a collective whole. You know, and then you got the late 70s Sonics, then the 90s Mariners. It's kind of like pick. No one's really... Growing up, I was an A-Rod guy, and then he left. And then that's when my childhood ended.

I had 98 Vikings, field goal miss, and then A-Rod leaving a year later. And my childhood ended just like that. Just boom, boom. So that gives you character though. It did. Yeah. So you have that kind of traumatic losses early on. You really build character and a sense

of humor. That's at least how I look at it with myself. You enjoy it. I mean, even I had to pick a Premier League team and I went Everton because I was like, I know. I know what you guys are going through. I can do this. Yeah.

So kindred spirit over here. So I felt like that was right. Yeah, I did for page two in the mid 2000s, I did a pick an EPL team column. This is when i thought i had time to watch epl before my kids uh got older um and i ended up settling on tottenham for the same for the same kind of reason i was like oh this seems like the right kind of fan base for me where where i'm at in my life but everton's even better everton's like yeah it's perfect got some

american ties to it you know like the tim howard so it's it's perfect. Got some American ties to it, like the Tim Howard. So it's perfect. It's the second team in a big city, the Liverpool thing. It's great. But it was also one of those things where it's like, okay, never been relegated. All right. So we're cool. We're mid-table.

This is good. And then ever since I started supporting them, it's just been rough. It's rough. This is a recurrent theme, if you haven't noticed, with my sports fandom. Yeah, I'm going to be a Wolves fan in the mid-aughts and they're going to go to the longest playoff drought in the NBA. So this has kind of been my thing. Unbelievable. I mean, you pick the Wolves and

Khan isn't even the GM yet, right? You end up immediately getting one of the worst GMs in the history of professional sports. And guess what was the first draft I invested in? Oh, nine. Oh,

nine. Act back picks. I was like, Oh yes, we got them. Everyone loved Curry. Even, even Flynn.

I mean, once I got Rubio, I was like, yeah, okay. Like that was one of my favorite players ever. I love her. I love the Rubio when I still defend the pick,

but then not taking Curry after that. No, I never thought this way when I did my column. Cause I really was just like, I love sports. I just want to write about the stuff I care about. That was one of the rare times as that was happening. I was like, man, this is incredible for the column. Like, I can't believe they took Johnny Flynn. I just can't.

I don't even know how to write about this in the right way. This is insane. In the moment too. Yeah. In the moment, it was insane. Yeah. Made no sense. It was like, in the moment, it was insane. Yeah. It made no sense. It was like,

these two guys don't even make sense together. What are you guys doing? And then we followed it up with like drafting like a 25-year-old Syracuse guy over to Marcus Cousins when it was like,

it was like obvious. Obvious. And I was like, everyone knew what Cousins was even back then. It's like, you knew what you were getting like on court and off court.

But it was like, you watch it on court, right? We got Kevin love and we got this, like, are you kidding? Who's going to defend that? And it was like,

it was just a, yeah. Oh man, I don't want to rekindle this. this is good. You walk through it. Now you're in a good spot. Therapeutic.

This is great. Now you finally made it. The Adelman years were fun. The Adelman years were fun. I will say there, they, uh, the knuckle push-up year, that kind of hurt

because of what it could have been. But when they had AK-47 and Love and Rubio and they kind of had some sweet passing going on, that was kind of my... That worked for me. But no.

But then it was just a little bit of a drab again for a year. But now it's great. Now it's great. You can see these little small moves they're making. As soon as they got rid of Russell, I was like, okay, I like all this.

These little moves are adding up. I was in favor. I am on record of the Gobert trade with my friends. I am on record. And I brought that text back up in that group chat. And I want that to be on record. So I am in favor of it. But yeah, it's been good.

Well, I remember at one point saying, I thought that might have a chance to be the worst trade of all time. So I'm going to eat my words on that one because it's worked out. But I mean, the amazing thing about that trade, the single biggest reason I didn't like it was it's like, well, Gobert's timetable

and Ant's timetable are completely different. By the time Ant's going to be an all-NBA guy, he'll be 25. That'll be the end of the Gobert contract. He'll be in his mid-30s, and that makes no sense. Ant became, I think I had him second team all-NBA this year at age 22. He was three years ahead of where I ever could have imagined

he was going to be. It's just inconceivable. Yeah, I totally predict that too. Are you going to take that? No, no, absolutely not. I think for me, even when it happened, it was a zagging that I'm a fan of. Good zagging.

Yeah, and I'm a big fan of that. And I think that's if and when we talk NFL, I have some talk about that. But I think too was I'm actually become a bigger fan of bridging contracts in leagues, not just everyone on the same timeline. I kind of like the one of each kind of thing going on and

like have an older guy, mid-tier, middle age guy, and then a younger guy, ideally. You know, but like, so I've the Cat, Ant, Gobert, Rudy thing. I kind of didn't mind it as much as maybe others did. This is also me from more of an NFL perspective, but I kind of keep up the NBA kind of logistics as much as I can.

And that was kind of just one for me. Cause it gives you, even without those first round picks, it still gives you options, I guess. Okay. Is cat become fodder, you know,

does, you know, Rudy, like we, is a resale down the road. Is it, you know, it just gives you different types of options to work with and

different types of resources to work with. Like you don't want to make a portfolio all out of the same thing. So I kind of, I've kind of been, I would say I'm all the way there with that thinking. Maybe this is my optimistic view of it and it's worked out. So I'm like,

yeah, I'm going to talk about it on your show right now. But it's a workshop. Yeah. It's a little heat check here, but yeah, that's kind of just a little thinking I've had kind of with sports

is maybe bridging those as opposed to everyone on the same timeline. Yeah, that makes sense. I'm trying to think of other examples where that's worked. I mean,

basically the Celtics were doing a version of that when they added Kyrie and Gordon Hayward with Horford, but then they had the young guys. But the problem is

they had no middle between the two. So they have a version of this now, right? They have Porzingis, Derek White, and Drew, and they have Horford, but then they have the younger guys. They just don't have the younger class now of people. Yeah, Minnesota. The Towns thing,

the fact that Edwards has become the leader, Towns never realized that he needed is another crazy outcome of this. I thought that interview was great in the post game and Edwards was like, you're fucking fouls. They're stupid. You just got to stay in the game. You're our best offensive player. Just the way he was putting it was like,

yeah, Towns, this is what we've been telling you for five years. And you got to hear from your peers sometimes. And maybe like that, it's almost like he had to do it with evidence. Like, see, I told you, I kind of think like I'm going to show other people that I'm telling you this, but it was also, I love that. And just doing it in a way where he's, you know, he's cussing at him, but it's in such a reinforcing and positive way. And this is like, this is like all time leader stuff that we're seeing at 22 years old. And I'm willing to say that on air. It's like on record. This is special, what we're seeing. And I think all of us are realizing that. But it's any type of sport.

This is what this kind of personality is. Because just to be able to do that, to point out a negative, constructive criticism, but do it in his own way. It's not corny. And he's also giving detail of it. He's not like, Kat's our best offensive player, blah, blah, blah. He goes no he's good he's the pick and pop he's naming all the moves that he does yeah and he's like he's the lead at this he's the lead at this he's the lead at this this is why they can't look at us in the third quarter look at what happened he's like bringing up examples

so it's not just like just a blanket statement he's going do do do do do this is what you're good at man and he's pointing out to everybody this is what he's good at so i mean just to do that on the spot man it's just like there's not a lot there's this is cool this is so much fun to watch we i had really good seats for a lakers wolves game like three four weeks ago and was just watching how he interacted with the teammates just the stuff during the timeouts what he was telling people and it was just clear. He was the unequivocal leader of the team. But one of the things that was interesting, there's this guy sitting courtside next to the bench. And everybody in the team was talking to him,

coming over, high-fiving him, talking in timeouts. I mean, everyone, like coaches, players. This guy almost was like part of the team. And me and my friend Ben were like, who is this guy? Like like part of the team and me and my friend Ben were like, who is this guy? Like, is he, is he a famous person? And we don't know. And we're just dumb.

So at the end we asked them like, who are you? How do you know literally everyone that two of us? And he's like, oh, I grew up with aunt. I'm, aunt's my best friend. And you know, I go to a lot of the games and I was like, even aunt's best friend is like one of the leaders of the team. I was like, even Ant's best friend is one of the leaders of the team. It just made sense. I was like, of course. Yeah, this is completely Ant's team to the

point that his best friend is also leading the team. Even his dog, Ant Jr. It's like everything. Right away, when he played Memphis a couple years ago in the playoffs, I would say that series was when I was, that was it. That was it.

This leads us to football because there's not and my dad's going to be on later in the podcast who's also a drake may guy there's a couple drake may guys out there and i think we all like the same things about him you are one of the most passionate drake may guys um but a lot some of the Drake May resume, if you're going to go all in on it, was this personality, leadership, charisma stuff, which I feel like is part of being a quarterback. How do we evaluate that? You're doing all this draft stuff. How do you evaluate intangibles?

How do you evaluate leadership stuff? What little pieces, what breadcrumbs are you searching for as you research these guys? Yeah, if we're just focusing quarterbacks, it's first and foremost, I want to see what they handle pre-snap. And there's hints at what you can look at,

especially from the college level. College offenses are, there's a lot of control from the coaches, meaning that they signal the play in, then they give a little fake signal. And then all of a sudden, everybody on the team looks at the sideline. The coaches go, you are running this play.

So the quarterback is just a joystick for the coach. And so one little breadcrumb I look at is, do I see this guy never looking to the sideline and communicating with everybody? Do I see movement as far as him flipping somebody, like a running back to one side to the other? Does it look in a calm demeanor and not a, oh crap, I forgot to move that guy kind of thing? Is it handling all this, handling operation, giving fake counts, getting guys to draw off sides? That's maturity because that comes with time.

That means you can handle this stuff after the snap and then you can pause and think about what happens before the snap. And then I go, I'm going to start getting crafty. I'm going to be able to add layers

to my game. So when I see a guy like Drake May, who I thought ran a very simplistic offense at North Carolina, which is not his fault. He's just operating it. And he left too after. Yeah, Phil Lago, who's with the Wisconsin now, which is not his fault. He's just operating it. And he left too after. Yeah, Phil Lago,

who's with Wisconsin now, which is where I played at. But they went that offense to this one in his registered sophomore year. He still was given control and he was still giving advanced play,

even in a simplistic offense, as much as you can. It's not going to be NFL level, but there was some things. There's a game that North Carolina State, one of his last games of the season, everyone has considered that one of his worst games and I think it's quite the opposite.

His team couldn't stop them, so he was down 21-0 right away in that game. But in that game, he's handling things like he changes a protect. They were just blitzing him every day down. They're blitzing and dropping eight. They were doing the older brother, like, I'm hitting you, you i'm hitting you i'm not hitting you kind of thing and which is what brian forrest did with the vikings this last year but they were doing a

college version of that so he's already facing kind of that tough game plan on his own without a lot of help and they're they get a real heavy blitz look he calmly changes to protection gets a flips the back over wads it all up, and then throws an absolute dart going to his left. So right there, I see mental side, and then I see the ability to handle this chaotic situation. So now we do that to throw an absolute dart with athleticism and arm strength. So it's plays like that. Those are the breadcrumbs where I'm just looking at,

this is mental side. This is the stuff that means that he is advanced in the playbook. He is calm with everything or he can handle everything that happens after snap. And then the coaches give him stuff to work with. Coaches aren't going to do that, especially in college that if they don't think you can handle it because they get fired. So you could just transfer or get benched, you know, but like he, they might get fired. So they're not going to do that unless they absolutely trust you. So if I'm seeing a 20-year-old guy do this in a big-time conference, I'm listening. I'm starting to sit up a little bit.

And then there's the stuff after the snap that he does that gets me more excited. But that's just May. But that's just overall with any type of quarterback. So there's been some Josh Allen throwing around, some Herbert throwing around around hybrid of the two of them like what what do you see when you watch him just as a quarterback because he's right now he's 6'4 229 which to me means he'll be 240 right he'll be six four and a half 240 probably by the

time he's a finished product which puts him kind of toward roethlisberger and puts him toward dante culpepper and, you know, Alan and just these bigger dudes. But he's, I think a better runner than, um, most people that size.

But what is, what, what area is he in for you in that front? Yeah, he, so he's not as big as Alan. He's not as big as Herbert. Those guys are like,

that's the thing is like, may is big. He's good. Six, six. Yeah. Six, six,

two 40 already. You know, even Cam Newton is six, five and change six, six. He's good size. Herbert's 6'6". Yeah, 6'6", 240 already. Even Cam Newton is 6'5", and changed 6'6", we'll call him. He would be an NBA 6'6", and like 250. Those guys are the elite size. And Allen probably has an inch and a half, and an inch, I would say, at the very least,

and probably 15 pounds of them. And football weight matters so much. I think that's always been misconstrued, is that it's like a combat sport, so weight classes matter. So I always try to emphasize weight. 10, 15 pounds matters a lot until you get to the big boys. But with May, I think the thing is, and you just mentioned it, is he's an excellent athlete. And I think that's been underrated about him. He's a really good athlete.

Not by me. I was posting his high school basketball montage clips. That doesn't mean that much, but it also doesn't not mean something when you're watching somebody basically just look like Anthony Edwards in a high school game in North Carolina. And the fact that he's 6'4", and he wasn't playing the post,

he was out of the wing. That's big. And in baseball, he's a shortstop. He wasn't first base. He wasn't pitcher. He wasn't right field. He was a shortstop, which I always am interested in. Do you care about the little brother piece?

Does that factor into your weird rankings? As much as possible. First of all, when I first am interested in. Do you care about the little brother piece? Does that factor into your weird rankings? As much as possible. I always try to, first of all, when I first am talking about these guys, it's my just reviewing guys, like just film, like film, film, film.

And then once I start picking up the other information, they'll sway it a little bit, but I'm not going to say this is bad that he has, but the fact that he's from an athletic family, that's always going to be huge. Just, I'd agree. That's something everybody, like, I mean, shoot, just look huge. Just, I'd agree that that's something everybody like, I mean,

shoot, just look at any sport. That's going to give you a more likely chance of hitting. Uh, but I think with that, that the fact that he's a little brother, he's been beat up on, he's tough as hell that,

and that's another thing is that he's really, really tough and competitive. And now, Oh, you're talking to even saying some of the tangible stuff. That same NC state game was the first time, uh, that I kind of like saw him

freak out a little bit, like kind of have a little like rah-rah-rah-rah kind of moment, like a mad dog moment. And I kind of like, it like perked me up a little bit. Like, okay, you do have this in you. And when I start hearing interviews that,

oh yeah, he's psycho competitive, that's like, that's yes. Because quarterbacks should all be psycho competitive. You want those guys, you guys all be psycho competitive you want those guys you guys want those guys you want those guys to be assassins even if they're nice guys

you want those stories like they put a ping pong table in the weight room and they had to take it out because Drake May never wanted to leave and it was causing problems and that's what

everything every story you hear that's what you hear about them they're always just like Phillip Rivers you know one of the most

psychotic competitors of all time Phillip Rivers I've never heard anyone compared to Phillip Rivers personality wise and he's gotten they're always just like Philip Rivers, you know, one of the most psychotic competitors of all time, Philip Rivers. I've never heard anyone compared to Philip Rivers personality wise. And he's gotten that thrown out to him several times. Clyde Christensen, who worked with North Carolina this last year compared to him.

Like it's, I don't know. There's a lot of, I try not to read too much into it other than red flags, but it's like, these are all working in his favor. And this is all worked into not only just film wise the off-field stuff that i'm just like this is something i would bet on because that's what you want you want this guy to be absolutely psychotic because it's not always

going to be easy and day in day out day in day out he has to work and this guy's like yeah i know how to work this is easy so do you feel like how much of this is situation to you? Right? Like you have somebody who's has a lot of the stuff that you would need to succeed as a quarterback, but they could still go to the wrong team and have like, what? The first quarterback that I ever rooted for was Jim Punkett. Cause I'm old. The new England Patriots is number one pick in the draft. Yeah.

And he just got the absolute shit kicked out of him for five, six years. Ended up, they, goes to the 49ers, gets released, and then gets resurrected on this famous NFL story,

resurrected on the Raiders. Like, oh my God, they resurrected Jim Plunkett. But, that was the worst situation I've ever seen a quarterback in. But I also feel like Bledsoe in the 90s

was a little bit similar where he got the shit kicked out of him. And by the time he hit year seven, year eight, it wasn't the same. Mack, which I talk about with my dad later, where he just, the coaching changed every year. And that was more kind of a coaching fuck up with him. I don't know if he would have made it or not, but the coaching didn't help. But can you be in a bad situation and still be good?

Can talent win over anything or is there a point? There's a point as long, there's a point, but the one year, I don't think it develops enough kind of scar tissue. But once you're getting to two and three years is when it happens. It's almost like a 30 game race. I think you have to you agree with that theory that by 30 games we need to know because I

agree with that too yeah I'm kind of by a snap kind of thing if by you know 2,500 3,000 snaps like then I should know like Zach Wilson's a good example of that right I don't know if he was in the right situation or not probably not but it never really changed.

You can see guys overcoming it. Even Trevor Lawrence's rookie year, you can see the flashes and the traits of sack mitigation, just being able to avoid, but they'll probably have a lot of bad plays, but avoiding even worse plays or putting the ball on the right spot, good

timing. So you can see kind of glimpses. And Zach Wilson was one of those about four games in, I was kind of like, he either needs to sit a little bit or this isn't it because he was just so skittish. You never want to see the eyes going left to right. You want to see maybe a glance, and then it looks to another place. But Zach Wilson right away, it was left to right.

And I was like, oh boy, coast to coast is never good. So you see just the signs of that. Or the guys that just take off the moment there's trouble. And that's just their instinct is like to just run like they're in a horror movie. If everything goes outside,

if throws go outside and they go outside, when they don't step up to scramble, they, you know, up and out. Like watch how much Patrick Mahomes goes up and then out. If they just go straight around and they get what we call fish hooked, where these 6'5", DNs with 6'11 wingspan just reach out and grab him,

yank him down. And then in college when they're playing Louisiana Monroe, that didn't happen because that guy's 6'1". So now they used to be the best athlete always. Now they used to get around that. Then technique matters more and size matters more because you have to step up into the crap. You have to step up into the mucky stuff

and finish. Caleb was doing that, right? He's got his tape of him. He moves up. He's not a take-offer. No, he's clean. He's cleaner than people gave him credit for. He was trying to be a good, clean pocket quarterback. He was trying to show people that this year, but everyone else didn't help him out.

Everyone else didn't comply. Yeah. He has more similarities to Drew Brees, young Drew Brees, than people have given credit for. Yeah. He's pretty cool. I love May.

I also love Caleb. So yeah, I have a couple guys I really like in this class. Did you, were you from a daniel standpoint when it get if it gets really hectic in washington let's say their blocking's not great and he's just taken off and running around do you feel like there's a purpose behind that or is it more oh i'm gonna do this this seems like a thing to do a little oh i'm gonna do this uh it seems to a thing to do. A little, oh, I'm going to do this. It seems to me because he will go one to two to three and progress and do that. For me, it seems like sometimes

in the pocket, he's going one and then he's setting up for his scramble. His eyes come down. And that is not a lack of toughness. Usually when you hear a quarterback's eyes come down, it's because they're quote-unquote scared of the rush. We know Jane Daniels is not scared of the rush. He when you hear a quarterback's eyes come down, it's because they're quote-unquote scared of the rush. We know Jane Daniels is not scared of the rush.

He's not scared to take a hit. But he is not working to throw. He is working to run. And again, when... You can make that work in the NFL. That's a good thing, to be able to create and scramble, but he's not creative as a player.

He's straight line as a runner. That's why the Lamar comparisons never made sense to me. He's also very when he throws or when he's working in the pocket, he's working, moving around the pocket and then looking to scramble to find a scramble lane. He's not trying to throw some sidearm. He's trying not to throw something, you know,

funky, which is what you kind of have to do in the NFL. Now you have to find these wonky pockets to work from wonky platforms. I would be okay. I'd be better with it if he was a little more aggressive, he was a little bigger, and he was a little younger. But the fact that he's had so many starts and he's still at not that level, that's why I had some red alerts with him. Even if I do like a lot of aspects of his game, there are some more concerns with him than the other two. Yeah, I would have talked myself into him if he fell to three, but with Mae being 18, 20 months

younger and feeling like, all right, let's see what the arrow's pointing up and what we can do around him. Anyway, we just went 27 minutes before we got to what we were going to talk about. So we got to take a break and then I'm going to throw that at you. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at

Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. After decades of shaky hands caused by debilitating tremors, Sunnybrook was the only hospital in Canada who could provide Andy with something special. Three neurosurgeons, two scientists, one movement disorders coordinator, 58 answered questions, two focused ultrasound

procedures, one specially developed helmet, thousands of high intensity focused ultrasound waves, zero incisions. And that very same day, two steady hands. From innovation to action, Sunnybrook is special. Learn more at sunnybrook.ca slash special. All right, so I asked you, five, six days after the NFL draft, how many days is it? Five days after the first round of the NFL draft.

We've had free agency. Teams have their rosters. We have a general sense of who's where and who's what and who's coaching who. Are there undervalued teams? Because we see this every year as we hit May. There's like three teams where everybody kind of stares at them going, wait, they're better than that. They look at the division odds. They look at the conference odds or they look at the win over runners like, really? That's it? I asked you to come up with three or four teams that you're staring at going, huh.

I think they're going to be a little better than that. So what's your first team? First one is kind of my little pet favorite this year. It's the Arizona Cardinals. They're at six and a half right now, which I think is about fair. But they're a sneaky, feisty team this year.

I think they're on the Dan Campbell Lions trajectory in year two. Yeah, just because of what they showed last year. That was a bad roster. Like, bad roster. And they overperformed like crazy because they were super well coached on both sides. So they are, and they just added a dude, a real dude, Marvin Harrison Jr.

They have Kyler Murray, who I think is being underrated right now. Like he's, Kyler's the top 10 quarterback when he's clicking. Like that top eight, I would even say, when he's really rolling. And then they have, they already, like, so they have Marvin Harrison Jr., Trey McBride, who is a really good tight end already. Already has synergy with, with Kyler Murray. Their old line,

Paris Johnson jr. Who they drafted last year is sick. Like he's, he's really good. Uh, but also they're, they're really well coached at old line. So that also helps.

It makes me more optimistic about himself. Just offensively. They have some fun pieces. I love their office coordinator, drew passing defensively. They're not as good and not as talented, but they're weird and so I think they can

make it funky they can play some battle lines some bad quarterbacks and NFC is wide open they're playing a fourth place schedule so yeah they're a

team that I think is still being a little bit underrated kind of like all the little singles and doubles they hit free agency in the draft too we did a pod so

it's five weeks ago when the over-unders came out okay and it was just we called it blink test it was five weeks ago when the over-unders came out. Okay. And it was just, I called it blink test. It was the Malcolm Gladwell blink test of just look at the over-under. What's your instant reaction. And Arizona was one of the five that seemed too low to me.

Yeah. It was over six and a half. It hasn't really moved, but they somehow went four and 13 last year. And I don't even know how they did that. And it felt like they could have stolen a couple other games. They didn't have Kyler until halfway through the year. But I'm with you because the NFC

is not good. It's not. Dallas is going to be worse. Yep. Yeah, the whole FC East is... The Niners are either going to be even or worse. Rams, who knows? You go to the NFC South,

I don't trust any of those teams. Right. People are like, well, what about Atlanta? Atlanta would probably be the NFC South. I don't trust any of those teams. People are like, well, what about Atlanta? Atlanta would probably be the best bet, but I wouldn't totally trust them. Everyone's going to be in Detroit. Minnesota seems like if JJ can play right away,

they'll be better, but we'll see. Who knows? Chicago, I know people are going to be excited about them, but they are throwing a rookie quarterback out there.

I think Philly's probably even slightly the same or slightly worse. I wouldn't say they're better. Right. And different isn't always good. You know, kind of thing. Yeah.

And losing Jason Kelsey is going to be... And I was just being an awesome leader, great on the field. Like all the mental stuff he handles on the snap is huge. So he's the quarterback playing center out there.

So that's going to be an interesting transition, I think, for them. We beat around the bush on a couple of my other teams, so I was hoping it didn't tip my hand. Well, I think the case, if you're going to say the case for Arizona, could they be like a 500 team or close? I don't think there's any question. But for me, the big for Arizona, could they be like a 500 team or close? I don't think

there's any question. For me, the big thing is how good can Harrison be right away? We've seen rookie receivers come in and just be awesome. I think it's going to be good. I'm a little scarred from Nikhil Harry. Now granted, Nikhil Harry is not Marvin Harrison,

but whenever they talk about this guy's amazing in traffic and he can, and I'm always like, can he, can he also just get wide open? What about that part? Does he get wide open every once in a while? Yeah, he can. Okay. So we're good with him.

Oh yeah. No, he's a, he's a, he looks like six, four, you know, two 10. Like he looks like he's going to be a dunker, but he's no, he's a technician. Like he, like, I think Dannylly actually put it best he's like what if marvin harrison senior had a son that's six four like he he's a fast technician that at time when he has to he'll dunk on you and do the flashy things but he wants to beat guys with route running uh he's awesome you know he's really really good so i i think he's going to be pretty pretty good right away you know what's interesting, Bella checks board, which

they flash quickly when he was on that McAfee. I didn't see it. Yeah. And, uh, and I think he had Harrison three and neighbors four, and then he had Drake May five. Cause I think he just felt like Drake May was raw, but, uh, but I was, I was surprised that he had a receiver that high. And then he had two in the top four. I thought it was crazy. Anyway, so Arizona, they have the fourth worst odds on FanDuel to win the NFC. Giants are worse.

Washington's worse. Carolina's worse. So anyway, who's your second team? Oh, you kind of hinted at it. I actually liked what the Rams did. And the fact that they, yeah, I mean, they made the playoffs last year. It's at eight and a half again. I know they're losing Aaron Donald, but that defense is kind of some of its parts.

Anyways, last year, I just think the offense is going to go supernova. I think it's going to be a really fun offense. And they figured something out last year. They went to a more power run game and they leaned into it this year. They said, let's just add more beef. And so that's what they did in free agency. I had a Jonah Jackson.

They're kicking in Steve Avila, who was their guard over into center. And he's going to be the biggest center in the league by weight. Like he's like three 20 something. They drafted Blake Corum, who's kind of like a bigger version of the back who they have right now kyron williams so kind of help out kyron like so he doesn't get worn down yes i i just think another repuka nakua another kind of a layer that they

add to his offense the tight end they added colby parkinson's like a kind of a nice role player where he's going to really help the run game out too so i think i'm talking myself into them having a really good offensive year so i think they could be just one of those teams that's nine, 10 wins. And I don't know if they're going to win division, but that another nine, 10 win season where they have a really good offense with a feisty, not feisty,

but just kind of bend, but don't break defense. That kind of gets the job done. Yeah. The only reason I paused on them as like, I didn't know if they're getting a better was because they lost Aaron Donald, one of the most important football players of the center. So I was like, I don't know if they were getting it better. It was because they lost Aaron Donald, one of the most important football players of the century.

So I was like, I don't know. That probably means something, but he wasn't. It does. He wasn't, you know, Aaron Donald, all caps, five exclamation points last year, but he was still one of the five best defensive linemen in the league. Maybe two, maybe two exclamation points.

Yeah. Yeah. No, you're not wrong. I just don't know what that means. And I don't... It's one of those things sometimes like a transformative guy like that leaves a team

and there's just this gaping hole that people are like, oh, we knew it was going to be bad, but we didn't know it was going to be like this. Sometimes I need people to say this to me sometimes because I talk myself into like,

well, they drafted these rookies that can step right up. You know, you're like, oh yeah, Aaron Donald's a 101 in Madden, not even 99 overall. He's passed that. No, no, it's a good call. But he, I do think because the back end of their defense was so bad last year

that as good as Aaron Donald was, he was kind of negated at times. As much as he can be. But he's still awesome. You're right. I think I had him as a second-team All-Pro. But I do think just that the other pieces that they had have kind of juiced up a little bit. Well, so the case for...

Because I'm with you. The great thing is we have three, four more months to stare at this stuff. The Rams are seventh-best odds plus 1,400 to win the NFC on FanDuel. To me,

it's the cut piece of it. That's what I want to know. I want to read, I want to see the cut piece, the mid-July piece about how he hasn't been this healthy in three years. I want to see the big

August Wright Thompson feature about how he went to the sand dunes of Oxnard and just ran up and down, like shooting vision quest.

And now his legs are, he's never, and this is it. He's ready to become like a first bout hall of fame receiver. He knew they have that. Yeah. Yeah. If they,

if they can get the two of them going together for two months, even we just never saw it. I know when When they had... I looked up some advanced stats. And they... When Kyron Williams, Cooper Cup, Puka Nakua, and Stafford

were all on the field. You know, kind of nice little on-off split here. They were the best offense in the last 15 years. About EPA and success rate and things like that. So when they were all

on the field together, this offense, like I said, is going super Nova. But like you said, Cooper Cup hasn't been healthy lately. He might be getting a new ice technique that he learned from the Antarctic. Like some trainer that went there. That sounds great. I know, but that's what he does. He's that type of guy that he's going to try and

Kobe it as much as he can. Well, they need him. Alright, what's your third team? Oh, man. I wanted to pander to the crowd with the Patriots here because I do think that they're gonna outplay their five and a half wins

I don't feel like this is pandering okay there's a lot of Patriots fans in my life who are all like hey our defense was really good last year

it really was that's the crux of the argument is I don't think the drop off there's gonna be that big of a drop-off play calling-wise because of the infrastructure they already have. Mayo and the other Belichick

that's already there, it's the same guys. It's not like they're going to revamp that defense so their personnel doesn't have to change. They brought everyone back. I liked it. I liked how they did free agency. They brought back their B players rather than jettison them. Hey, let's bring back the Hunter

Henrys, the Kendrick Bournes, the Kyle Duggars better than that, but the Josh Uchays. Hey, let's bring it back. Then we can add it. We can add the Cherries on top. And then I think again, I think Drake Mays can be more ready to go than people realize. I love Jalen Polk. I think he's awesome.

I've been comparing him to Robert Woods, their second round pick. Yeah. So he's just a, he'd do a lot inside, outside does dirty work, can win downfield a little bit. He can win kind of all three levels.

He's not like the most flashy guy. He's not going to like take a five yarder to the house, but he'll, he's going to get like, he's like an efficient player. He's like a really good three and D guy. I really like him. And then Javon Baker, who they drafted on day three. He's a an efficient player. He's like a really good 3 and D guy. I really like him. And then Javon Baker, who they drafted on day 3.

He's a downfield guy. I think he's going to have some nice synergy with May. And then they're trying with the offensive line. Don't know who's playing left tackle, so I will say that. But I don't know. They're at 5.5 wins. The defense has great bones on it. I don't think there's going to be that much drop-off.

Buffalo's going to be worse. Miami will be the same or worse. Jets are the giant X factor with Rodgers and who knows. Five and a half seems low. I'm with you. That was one I wanted to throw in there because I also didn't want to just do all NFC teams because the other one I had was Packers. I'm kind of disco stewing it. The disco stew

meme. Just like all the way to the moon. The Packers is your because the Packers I think a lot of people assume like all the way to the moon. So the Packers is your, because the Packers, I think a lot of people assume they're going to make the playoffs. Right. But you're saying, I'm thinking way bigger than that. I'm thinking maybe a Final Four,

like maybe a conference championship appearance. I think Jordan Love is better than people are realizing. I know we all said he felt like he's ascended, but I think he might take another leap this year because I think the offense is so young that their pass catchers are all first and second year guys, and they're only going to get better. They have so many of them. Tight ends and receivers.

I still feel like they could have won that same Fran game, and then we just kind of forgot about it after the fact. That's it. We're sitting there for them. They owned the Cowboys. They had them at the wine chamber. They took on the task. Yeah, so, i and i think the

defense was some addition by subtraction with some of the defense they kind of had some reinforcements on the back end so i i think just they're they're really well coached the four is an awesome play caller uh yeah so i i think the packers they're nine and a half and i'm not saying that oh they're gonna go 13 to four or anything but more 10 11 ish um but i think they're just a better team they realize not just a playoff team but more 10-11-ish. But I think they're just a better team, they realize. Not just a playoff team, but more of a like, hey, they can make it a little bit of a run. Yeah, if you look at the NFC odds,

the Niners are plus 250 to some fando. Lions 6-1. Eagles plus 650. If that's the top three, I'm not going to fight it. Right. But Dallas is plus 650 tied for the third highest spot and the Packers are plus 850. And I just don't see any world

where the Packers aren't better than Dallas. Dallas, even to be as good as the Packers, needs four things to go perfect for them. Not to mention the Dak contract here

and McCarthy, who probably should have been fired, but now is in like this lame duck year where if they don't make the Super Bowl, he is getting fired. Super Bowl or Belichick.

I think Green Bay should have the third best odds. I would put them ahead of Philly, too. I would have it San Fran, Detroit, Green Bay, I think, would be my three. But I'm not going to argue with Philly because losing those coordinators last year just seems

like it murdered them. And maybe they'll fix that. Maybe they're going to seem more cohesive. There's things they can fix with what we watched last year. Oh, absolutely. Dallas, I don't know how that's fixable. Well, it's just their plan going forward with what they drafted is fine. But that doesn't help them from this year as much.

They drafted some decent guys, but they did nothing for agency. The DAC thing is the DAC thing. The defense just has to regress because they didn't reinforce it. It was already regressing last year. They were playing bonkers the first half of the year. In the second half of the year,

they're playing a bottom 10 team. I think people forgot that. They're like, oh, they still got Micah Parsons still got to Marcus Lars. There's, you know, it's still got digs back there, but they got more holes. I think people realize.

I agree. There's one team. I thought you might mention you didn't. Yeah. There's a case for Washington. If Daniels is awesome. Right. Where they,

they had, you know, I would, a bottom three coaching situation last year. They fixed that. They have a new administration. They had a lot of picks. They have a quarterback. It's more like what if Daniels is awesome, I guess would be the case. He's 23. He's probably the safest bet to come right in and resemble what he looked like in college. But you made the point about what if his first look's not there?

Does he just take off and run? He's too small. He can get hurt right away. But I don't know. I can't rule them out for some reason. Am I crazy? I think they're going to be kind of mediocre. Yeah, just some, as of right now,

you know, it's just some of the, some of it doesn't come together right. You know, they got just, you know, O-line. O-line's like fine, but it also just doesn't encourage me with whatever the issue is with Daniels and kind of just going, oh, we're going to put them behind an average at best O-line. Like that, that's a little scary. That's kind of the scar tissue stuff. Well, that's why

their odds are terrible. And then, you know, they got some interesting pieces. Like they got, they're an, like they have cool players,

like a D-line, you know, they got Scary Terry, a receiver, they got some, you know, they got Deron Payne at D-tackle,

but then they just have like gap, gap, gap, gap. And they try to kind of shore it over, but to me, they're like a year away as a roster.

So I think they're going to be fine. I'm not saying bad, but not. No, that's it. That's the right case. I think you're right. I'm glad we shore it over. But to me, they're like a year away as a roster. So I think they're going to be fine. I'm not saying bad, but not. No, that's it. That's the right case. I think you're right.

I'm glad we talked it out. The other one that jumped out was Seattle just because new coach, right? Mike McDonald, who everybody loves. Yeah. Um, foundation of some stuff in place,

right? They're slightly better than 500 team. And then they look out in the draft. They get an awesome defensive player in the middle of the draft, which never, ever fucking happens. So, maybe. Is there any case for them that you would make? Yeah, they've still got

Gito. They've still got DK and Lockett. They haven't traded them yet. Yeah, definitely. I think the defense is going to improve just because the defensive play calling will definitely. Uh, I think, I think the defense is going to improve just because the defensive play calling

will improve just because I think McDonald's that good. And I, I'm interested to watch that offense. It's the office coordinator came from

university of Washington who went, that's the last year. Uh, I think, you know, the old wine's not great still,

but you know, they added guys, they drafted Christian Haynes in the third round who I really liked. He's a Yukon guy. Uh,

they, they have some really, they a couple of interesting tackles. I really like Charles Cross. But they're interesting on offense. They're decent, pretty good on offense. And I think they upgraded the offensive coordinator. I'm pretty optimistic about this guy coming from the University of Washington. His name is Ryan Grubb.

I should give it a name drop. But then on defense, I think they're going to improve as well. So they're not bad. They're another team that I'm more like decent then on defense, I think they're going to improve as well. So they're not bad. They're another team that I'm more like decent plus on because of just who they have. And I think they upgraded as play callers. That feels like half the league this year.

It's like, maybe, maybe, possibly. Was there a guy in the first round that you were just outraged where they landed compared to where you thought

they should have been drafted? Like good or bad? Penix was pretty shocking for me. Well, yeah, I know Penix is the easy one, but what about the other way? What about somebody dropping? Oh, dropping? Grant Barton, who went to the Bucs, but I understand it

because some people just looked at him as a center only, but I just thought that guy was a fantastic player. There's some guys in the second round, maybe. The A.D. Mitchell one was maybe, but that was the second round, maybe. You know, the A.D. Mitchell one was maybe, but that was the second round, but that's also because there's the rumors of the concerned stuff

or concerns of the rumors of off-field stuff that have kind of come out there, but it's just also like, I don't know if that's anything, personality versus him playing football, but I think he landed in the perfect spot. You know, he's got Reggie Wayne as his coach. He's got Anthony Richardson as the quarterback. I think he landed in the perfect spot. He's got Reggie Wayne as his coach. He's got Anthony Richardson as the quarterback,

who I think will juice him up a little bit. He played with kind of iffy QB situation last year with Quinn years. I kind of sometimes wouldn't run the hardest if I had five balls sailing over my head. So I think playing with a good quarterback will get the best behavior out of receivers. They get these guys to really liven up. So if you have one of those and you get a guy that's as talented,

I think, as AR is, like, that is why I'm bullish on him. I thought he would sneak into the first round. I was kind of surprised that he lasted that far into the second. Well, I mean, part of it is, I did a double take when I read this. Polk was the 10th guy drafted at receiver. And he was the 10th guy drafted at receiver. And he was the 37th pick. 10 receivers in the first 37

picks. So, you know, I talked about this last week. On the one hand, the draft is starting to resemble free agency in a lot of the right ways where it's like, eh, you know what? Teams really value tackles and wide receivers and quarterbacks.

So you get six quarterbacks in the top 12. You get a million offensive linemen taken. You get 10 receivers taken in the first 37 picks. But then the zag, which I now know that you love, it felt like the zag was some of the defense. Right. And being like, all right, I guess we'll take the best pass rusher in the draft

at number 15. Sure. We'll talk ourselves into that one. Cause he had a neck fusion. And, but I do wonder like, if we're going to look back at this draft, like, man, the seesaw got tilted too much here. And it was just also the talent of this draft. Like the, this was a rare draft tackle wise, offensive line wise.

Yeah. like the this was a rare draft tackle wise offensive line wise yeah uh and but i think the receiver glut uh sometimes does take a little bit uh too much precedent for some other positions like but you're right though when there's a run on these other spots sometimes you end up with the best your guy that's the best corner like the eagles maybe did um and uh and quinnion mitchell who's my number one 22nd yeah and it's. And it's like, was it that crazy? Like, I think Mitchell to me, it was like the mid-teens kind of player, but still it's like,

that's maybe the best corner of this draft, like a guy that's consensus. So sometimes that's where it happens. The Graham Barton was another one where maybe a bunch of guys that had more tackle versatility, offensive tackle, they go earlier and he's like, all right,

I'll just get this all pro level guard, you know, because other positions get prioritized. No, but that's absolutely a thing. And I also think there's just, there's some margins to be had when you know like a certain play style works for you. Like if you just go, this guy works for us because we use them like this. Our defense coordinator does it like this, which isn't revolutionary thinking, but the teams that do that and actually hit, and that's

why I think the Rams always do well, have done recently, where, yeah, this guy in the third round isn't the best player in the world, but he fits for us, and he works perfect for us. That is kind of where you can find these guys outplay their draft spots a lot because they just go to those perfect situations.

That's one of the things that Pat's did with May, where they're like, if you watch the tape, you know what Drake May loves doing? Fucking winging it downfield. Let's get at least one dude who just loves being downfield, maybe catching stuff. Synergy of it. That's the nuggets with how they're building up their team.

Let's have Jokic just throw lobs to guys. They just want all 6'8 long guys who can jump. Yeah, it makes synergy actually works in sports. Jalen Polk's the same way. He's supposed to be more of a safer zone beater, quarterback's best friend kind of guy.

What's May struggle with sometimes? He checks. Sometimes he needs someone to calm him down a little bit. Let's get him his Seabiscuit had his pumpkin, the mule next to calm him down a little bit. All right. So let's get him his, you know, Seabiscuit has had his pumpkin, you know, the mule next to, you know, the fat horse next to him. Like that's his Jalen Polk. That is his. But that's what Brady, first few Brady years, Troy Brown.

Yes. Then they bring in Dion Branch and those were like his binky blankets for the first five years. Then they trade Dion Branch to the Seahawks because he wanted money. Never replaced that. All of a sudden Welker's back, but they always, it was only a couple of years away.

They didn't have that one guy because he loved that specific person. Anyway. All right. I can talk to you about football day. Nate Tice. Great job with everything. I really enjoyed reading, listening,

all that stuff. You do good work. Thank you so much for having me. This was great. Metro links and cross links are reminding everyone to be careful as Eglinton Crosstown LRT train testing is in progress. Please be alert as trains can pass at any time on the tracks. Remember to follow all traffic signals, be careful along our tracks and only make left turns where it's safe to do so. Be alert, be aware, and stay safe. All right, my dad is here.

This is a pretty tumultuous, exciting, fun, supercharged time for Boston sports. So we had to bring him in. We have a quarterback. The Red Sox are somehow hanging around. The Bruins are in the process of killing the Maple Leafs. And the Celtics are hopefully going to fend off the Miami Heat. What are you most focused on right now? Well, everything.

Because I think I said to somebody, Saturday was one of the most exciting days sports-wise in Boston. We had the NFL draft going on. We had the Red Sox winning 17-0. We had the Bruins winning. And we had the Celtics winning. And the Revolution lost to Messi. So that's fine.

So one of my most exciting. And the women's soccer team had a game too. that's fine. So, one of my most excited. Yeah. Um, and the women's soccer team, uh, had a game too. So, a lot going on in Boston. But,

I'm most excited, obviously, about the Celtics and the Bruins. Um, as you know, I'm a solid Bruins watcher during the playoffs.

Um, and they play again tonight. Right. Before we, so, we're taping this before the game tonight. I read a piece in The Athletic about how the Maple Leafs are in complete turmoil with the Bruins going up 3-1. I was thinking of you because usually the Bruins are on the other side of those pieces.

Let's talk Celtics, though. Okay. Up 3-1. We've been worried for seven months about, uh, poor Zingas just stopping and then looking down at either his knee or his calf or his foot or some part of the lower part of his body. And then in the Miami series, feeling great, things are going awesome.

Let's just get through this. Let's knock these guys off and get to the next round. And then there it is. Poor Zingas limping off. And they're like, no, no, he's fine.

It's not the Achilles, but he did leave the locker room in a walking boot. And the last time this happened, he was out for two weeks. It makes me nervous that he's going to be ready for the next series. He definitely will not play in game five, I'm guessing. But walk us through your reactions as that happened. Well, as soon as I saw it happening, I remember the conversation you and I had the last week of October about this team. And our high hopes, but our concern that if Porzingis got hurt. And I was relaying to you that I went to the first game that he played.

And I don't know that I've seen a tall player with such skinny legs, especially from the knee down to the foot. And it just worries you when you see him take a fall or anything going on. And sure enough, last night, you know, it didn't get reported in the paper, but he slightly twisted his ankle first. Yeah. And I started screaming into the TV, Joe, Missoula, take him out, take him out. And of course, he's oblivious, or he just thought it was minor. I don't know. A minute or two later, he has a second injury, because I think they were two separate injuries. And of course, you and I always get scared when it's a non-contact injury.

And that's what that second injury was. I keep probably 10 times this afternoon going to the Internet trying to see if there's any update because they said he was getting imaging today. And I have seen no updates so far. I think we can afford to have him miss two, two and a half weeks. I'm pretty confident we're going to take Miami out tomorrow night. It looks like, I'm hoping Cleveland and Orlando go seven. Gives us a little more time. I think it will actually. I think that series is going to go seven.

So that'll help us. It looks like the home team keeps winning. And then I still think we can win in a seven-game series against either of those teams. But the Knicks, I think, are a different story. The Knicks just lost.

The Knicks lost Bogdanovich today for the season. They've already lost Randall. They're kind of running out of competent players. So, you know, this is the story of the Eastern conference this year, though, like Milwaukee is going in there.

This game's happening, but after we taped this, but they, they have Giannis and Dame go down and bead has been up and down from an injury standpoint, though, basically the whole second half of the year and then the playoffs, and he's playing hurt. And it felt like, and then Miami,

you know, who I think we would have beaten anyway, and I think Miami got a great excuse out of all the injuries they had. I just don't think they would have beaten us regardless. But the Celtics were kind of due, and Porzingis was the minus 500 candidate on FanDuel to be the guy who got dinged up. I didn't know that.

No, I was joking. Oh, okay. If you ask me who I was worried about getting injured, particularly against Miami, which is such a physical team, they're shoving and pushing every time down the court, which is somewhat why he was so ineffective in game two. I mean, they were really shoving him out past the foul line. You know, he obviously came back in game three and played better. But he worries you every time anything happens physically to him. And sure enough, I saw the picture of him walking out in the boot.

They announced, I think it was Scalabrini said, you know, as a precaution, they're always going to walk out in the boot. They announced, I think it was Scalabrini said, you know, as a precaution, they're always going to walk out in the boot. So I try to take that as it is. I also saw his tweet, which I think I forwarded to you, where he tweeted

like five, ten minutes, fifteen minutes after the game, you know, I'm all good. I don't know if you saw that. Yeah, and he was praising Derek White. That made me feel better. So they're probably being super cautious. It's unlike Denver with Jamal Murray last night where Jamal Murray, the doctors

basically said, you shouldn't play. And he's like, I'm playing. And then ended up being the star of the game. The star of the game. I stayed up and watched that game. I was hoping that game would go at least one more game. Anyway, I hate to see LeBron go out like that. Do you really hate to see LeBron go out like that?

He beat us a few times. I just would have liked to have seen him lose at home, not on the road. But you're right. I've never seen a season like this where so many, it's not just people getting injured. It's star players getting injured. It's bizarre. And then you have other players who just didn't play well,

like Durant. I mean, it's hard to believe he's out of the playoffs already. Wait, can we go playoffs already. Wait, can we go back to, can we go back to game two, which you took my daughter to, and she was all excited to see the Celtics go up to, and Miami hit 23 threes and the Celtics were asleep.

And you're texting me about Missoula and my daughter's texting me what you guys are both texting me separately. My daughter's like, what's going on? Why is this happening? It was like her first shocking. I didn't know she was texting you. Yeah. It was just awful, but it was just, I just want to see this Miami team. I just want them to go away.

I just want to finish the series, not have any more injuries, not have those moments where bam, after Tatum shooting after the whistle just lands in his landing spot where all of a sudden Tatum is a stretch. Just get, let's get out of this series. I it's part of it's the DNA of when that, when Rondo's elbow got broken or whatever the hell happened that year. And I just want to add to this series. I do too. And if we beat them, it's great that we played them,

but neither one of us wanted to play them. Um, they're so physical and obviously they have a great coach. That game number two that you referenced, it reminded me of game seven last year that you and I walked out of at home and had to do a podcast afterwards. That feeling of walking out of a game that you were confident you were going to win. And, uh, and of course your daughter is getting test messages from her boyfriend who's from Miami, you know, giving her a lot of grief and getting text messages from the brother

of the, of the boyfriend from Miami giving her the same grief. So how did this, I don't understand how I allowed this to happen. I mean, we like the kid, but how did she... I just can't... I feel like I failed as a dad. But she followed your ultimatum that you gave her at the age of five, that she could never date somebody who loved the Lakers. That is true.

Nobody could ever pull in the driveway with a Laker flag on his car or wearing purple. No, so my big mistake was I said Yankees and Lakers. You could never wear a hat. You could never root for this team. You could never have any aspect of either of these teams in your life. But I should have probably covered Miami in that.

Although we do like Tommy. I don't know. It's a tough one. I think if we could just beat Miami and shut them up, I think it would be a lot better. Well, I wonder like if, if they end up getting married,

could we get them to convert? Like how, you know, like when a Catholic marries a Jewish person and one of them converts to the other side, like maybe we get them to convert. I don't know. I don't think so.

I mean, they've used my tickets and Zoe has complained that he doesn't really root for the Celtics. I don't think so. I mean, they've used my tickets and Joey has complained that he doesn't really root for the Celtics. I don't think he should be allowed to use the tickets anymore. Maybe that's a compromise. He's never going to a game again, believe me. He's taunting her in the game too, you guys. He's bad.

Well, the thing about this Miami team is because they have such a good coach, they just pick the scabs. All the scabs we can see with the Celtics team because we watch all the games and you're going in the games and you're sitting down on the bench. And there's just these, when things slow down, when it's too iso-bally, when we don't have enough defensive intensity coming out of the gate, when they forget, like like this team's identity

is actually defense leading to the offense not offense taking care of the rest right and miami just they're like we're gonna slow it down we're just gonna put poor zingas and pick and rolls over and over again we're gonna bomb a bunch of threes we're gonna be physical we're gonna do a little pseudo cheap shot shit and yet boston has handily won three of the four games. So I don't even know why we're stressing out about this. Well, you know, last night, I think we were up almost 30 at one point. But in the fourth quarter, they got it down to 13. And they were on a roll.

And you know who they really take out of the game consistently? Jalen Brown. Jalen Brown missed six or seven layups last night. And I think it's because the physicality under the basket. Maybe Miami's philosophy is, you know, we'll foul every time. They're not going to call it every time. And it looked like Brown got fouled quite a bit. Never got called. Or he just missed the layup. I don't know.

He has not been good in the playoffs so far. He has not been good in the playoffs. Statistically, it's better than eye test. His stats are okay, but the eye test, he just seems a little off. He had six turnovers last night. He dribbled off his foot, threw it out of

bounds. Well, we've been saying the whole second half of the season, it's easily the best he's played as a Celtic. I voted for him for all NBA. I thought he had some dominant games, which I don't know if we would have said that before. I agree. I just think Miami is in his mind a little bit.

Maybe when we move on, it won't be that way. We have no history with Cleveland. We have a little history with Orlando because they played us well. Actually, Cleveland played us well last year too. Well, Cleveland had a couple. I mean, they had that Dean Wade game this year.

Both of those teams have had moments against the Celtics. Yeah, they have. I think the Orlando series would worry me a little bit more because their defense is so good that it can, it just has the potential to just be an ugly, ugly series where it's like, you know,

89 to 86, those types of games, especially with no poor Zingas, no poor Zingas. All of a sudden there's some isoball potential with the cells, but yesterday white was the best player in the game. And I think that's one of the things that's different from last year

is he can just be the best player in the game every once in a while, which I just don't think he was capable of that a year ago. One of the articles talked about, obviously everybody's talking about White's game, but the fact that last year you had Marcus Smart as the lead guard,

and White wasn't able to play this way because he wasn't getting those kind of minutes or he wasn't controlling the ball every time. By the way, a topic extensively covered last season on the BS podcast. We talked about this with you. We talked about Bursillo. This was the biggest reason they made that trade because he needed to have the ball in his hands. Which certainly

worked out well. It also gave more minutes. Although Pritchett and Hauser didn't have good games last night, they've had good games in this series and they play well at home. So that's another promising sign for tomorrow night. You seem optimistic. I feel like

this is as optimistic if Porzingis comes back okay, considering the shape of the East and you watch the West and certainly doesn't seem to be a super team like last year, just a lot of good teams. I'm optimistic

if he's not out for the whole season. Well, yeah. Obviously. Yeah. You know, anytime they talk about the calf, the calf is so near the Achilles

area. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, we've seen other athletes where they say, no, it's just the calf, and it ends up being a little bit more. I mean, this is why Giannis isn't playing, because they've been, you know, it's just the calf, and it ends up being a little bit more. I mean, this is why Giannis isn't playing, because it's been three-plus weeks. America wants to know how you're feeling

about the guy we once called Second Row Joe, Joe Mazzulla. How are we doing with him? He had new assistant coaches. It seems like a more stable year. Every once in a while, there's a pretty wonky game. But the reality is, there's only a couple elite coaches in the league.

He's at least... I feel like he's not a... I wouldn't say he's bad or mediocre. I think he's been pretty good for the most part this season. Would you agree? America must feel that way. He was voted fourth coach of the year, paladin. My ballot wasn't counted,

I guess. I think he's coached better this year. I also think he's benefited greatly by the new coaching staff. Sometimes I forget he inherited Emmy's coaching staff last year. Probably some of those

guys thinking they should have been given the chance, not Joe. Then Stoudemire left halfway through the year. Yeah. And this year, as you know, we have such a great view of the bench. I watch the assistant coaches and they have a good relationship with Joe. They especially have a good relationship with individual players. It looks like each player has a certain assistant coach that they go to. One thing that struck me today in the globe, Derek White talked at length about Joe Mazzulli's influence on his year.

And I had not seen that before. This was after the game last night. He talked about what a great guy Joe has been to him, how he can always go to him for advice, how he's really supported him and built up his confidence. I guess those are things you and I aren't going to see.

We just see some mistakes that he occasionally makes during a game. Less so this year as the year has gone on. More timeouts are being called. I can quibble with, I wish you had taken Porzingis out earlier last night, but maybe he just didn't see it. Or some other games when we're texting each other, there's two minutes left,

Celts are up 20, and Porzingis is still running around. Put this guy in a glass case. Yeah. I feel a little better about him, but... That's good. A little better is a win for Joe. I almost had him in my top three for Coach of the Year. It's only the first round. Yeah.

Let me see what happens. Orlando will be a good test for Joe because that team is excellent defensively. They're going to do some stuff and try some stuff that we're going to have to solve. And if it's just ISO ball and all the stuff that goes wrong and

Tatum dribbling for 18 seconds and then launching a step back three and that's the offense. I think that's going to be an issue. It's a little frustrating to watch Tatum in this series. Even last night... Hold on a second.

This is great the landline went off might have to keep that might have to keep that in the pod my dad's landline went off so we have

we sorry slow break here if you're wondering who has a landline left sorry my dad I forget where it's at yeah now you're not

going to move over no Tatum I thought Tatum had a terrible game last night and you know game one and game three going to the basket great last night last night for some reason he didn't want to go

near the basket we saw that fall away jump shot he shot poorly I think 5 from 16 something like that. He wasn't aggressive to the basket. It's puzzling sometimes why he plays that way. Yeah, when people ask me about him, I know a lot of people are watching a lot of the playoffs

and seeing all these different guys with higher stakes. I just think there's a level between SGA, Jokic, Luka, even somebody like Kyrie in some of these playoff games. Some of the stuff Harden was able to do down the stretch. And where Tatum

has been offensively. Sometimes he'll get hot. And sometimes he'll have those games where he gets the line. But I still don't feel like he's the guy that he's going to be offensively yet. And it's weird to say that because he's been around since the 2018 playoffs. And he's been in all these big games. And he was first team on Bay this year.

But I still feel like he's not a finished product. Do you, do you agree with that or do you think he's a finished product? No, I do agree with that, but I think some of it is his decision-making. He so quickly will take the fall away three point shot instead of the middle is wide open and going,

I know it's harder for basketball player to go in the middle. You know, you're going to just take that 15 footer. Yeah. Um, or yeah, or go in and take that 15 footer, but the fall away 27 foot shot, he's shooting around 25% in threes for this series. Uh, you know, that that's not good. Well, one of the things I love about watching SGA is he just gets good shots.

And he gets shots in the spots that he wants. And sometimes they're 8 feet. Sometimes they're 15 feet. Sometimes they're 17 feet. Sometimes it's a layup. But his shot selection is just so perfect and so good. And same thing when I watch Jokic. He's just either going to get himself a really good shot or get somebody else a really good shot.

And that's kind of the structure of their team. And Luca, when he's feeling it, it becomes unstoppable. And it just doesn't seem like Tatum is on that level yet. And when I think about like the finals and one of these guys being on the other team and just having a guy who's just slightly better at this stuff. And I still, it's the one piece the Celtics haven't figured out yet. What are they going to do if they're in a situation like the Lakers were last night? You're matching baskets with Denver. Is it Tatum? And neither of us really love the step back shit.

No, we've never liked it. I think he's doing more of it this year. You know, he hasn't had that 40-point game. He hasn't had that 50-point game, which he's had in the playoffs and other seasons. I know he's distributing the ball very well. He has a lot of assists, and he's

getting rebounds. And bigger defensive burden and bigger rebound burden. I think they want him to be an all-around guy. I agree, but I wish he'd kind of take Derek White's shot selection. You saw it last night. Derek goes to the basket.

I mean, he had those two dunks, two plays in a row on offense. With cuts. I mean, he actually catches defenders falling asleep and cuts to the basket, which nobody does. You know, you and I have also talked about Tatum's ability in the post,

the post area. And I know this year with Porzingis, they didn't use him in there because Porzingis was in there. Maybe that's an adjustment they're going to need to make if Porzingis doesn't play in the next couple of weeks. Because I think Tatum is devastating from the foul line in. I'm so glad you brought that up. Cause I mean, I looked yesterday at the,

I'm looking at it right now, the play by play sheet, and you can see all the dots where he took shots from. Yeah. He doesn't have a single shot at the foul line yesterday. And I'm with you because we always judge this stuff. And, you know,

based on what we watched, even when I was a kid in the Bird Celtics. What are you doing that makes the defense react kind of the most violently? What is the defense the most afraid of? Every time they post Tatum up at the foul line, the defense sends a second guy at him. They don't want him to shoot from there.

And yet, the Celtics never do it, which goes back to some of our Joe Mazzulla stuff. I'm so much happier when he's at the foul line than when he's 28 feet from the basket. What also opens up wide open threes in the corner for Hauser or Pritchard or

Orford. Or Holiday, yeah. Holiday is deadly in the corner. I hope that's an adjustment they make tomorrow night without Porzingis. Because Horford can't play more than 30 minutes. Well, you know what we might see is, what we've been wondering if we'd see all year,

is a little small ball with Tatum at the five. Him defending Bam. I've been dying to see it. I just want to see what it looks like. And they've been very hesitant to do it. Well, the risk is what happened last night. Tatum got two quick fouls and didn't play as much in the first half.

And Bam is such a good player. In person, he's so intimidating. He's the kind of guy you'd love to have on your team. And he's tough to guard. He draws fouls. So it's risky to put Tatum'd love to have on your team. And he's tough to guard. He draws fouls. So it's risky to put Tatum on him maybe until the fourth quarter.

It's funny because he really only has one move. And he just does variations of the exact same move. And everybody, every time he does it, the other team's like, oh my God, he did that move again. I can't believe it. I've been so impressed with that move. He's able to shoot it over 7'3 Porzingis. It's the same shot.

I feel like they have in their back pocket, putting Drew on him. And Drew has been... I just love Drew. I'm so happy they re-signed him. One of the most fun things about having Drew on your team is it's like that year we had Darrell

Rivas on the Pats and it was just like, this is awesome. This guy shuts down everybody. I love it. With Drew, I feel like they have in their back pocket, just throwing him on bam in a close game and just like, you're not doing that move anymore because I'm going to stick to you like glue. But Drew in general, like in the end, and I'm sure you've to you like glue. But Drew in general, and I'm sure you've seen it in some of the games in person, his ability to jump off dudes, the way he plays help defense. I thought

some of the stuff he did in this series, even though he didn't play that well offensively, some of the stuff he was doing defensively in this series was just out of control. Yeah, he's not playing as well. He played okay last night offensively, but he and Pritchard, once we got past game two and Joe realized maybe we have to guard people closer, he and Pritchard did a real good job on hero.

Joe realized nobody on Miami could dribble? Yeah, or maybe these are professionals that can shoot when nobody's six or seven feet near them. What Western team are you the most afraid of? I stayed up stupidly again, watched Denver, LA. You don't have a job. Well, I have to get up with my wife and walk the dogs at five in the morning. Yeah.

Yeah. All right. Fair. All right. You know, Jokic is just, he's an amazing ball player. He didn't even play that well last night. And he still looked like his box score was tremendous. It was fun to watch Murray hurt playing so well.

That team scares me to death. I don't want to play them. Well, you know what was crazy about that game was the Lakers literally were getting every call. I mean, the free throw advantage was 27 to nine. Jokic didn't shoot a free throw, which his coach made sure he pointed out after the game. He was like, Jokic, you played so well.

He was perfect from the free throw line. And then he did a beat because he was zero for zero free throw line. I just thought there's some games where he just gets hammered. And he's one of those guys you could call way more fouls. You could call some less fouls or you could just call no fouls. And he just, he never gets calls.

Anyway, I'm most afraid of Denver as well. Yeah, that's starting five with Denver. Plus, I saw them in person this year. Will they be there? They're big. Every, you know, forget what comes in off this year. They're big. Forget what comes in off the bench. They're starting five. They might be the biggest starting five in the league.

They made us look a little bit small, which was surprising. Yeah. We're both afraid of Denver. We have plenty of time to talk about them in later pods. Let's get to what America really wants to know. Drake May, he's now in your life. Hopefully, we'll take you into your 90s

when you're living in the guest room. My 80s. Number three pick, we spent an incredible amount of time talking about it, analyzing it. Neither of us know anything about college football. We had to throw ourselves into it with the YouTube clips.

I never saw him play, but I would have been devastated if they traded down. I've not seen him play yet. I like that he has all these brothers that he's close with and he has a girlfriend from the seventh grade and his coaches love him and players that play with

him love him. He just seems like a really good man. And his stats were great the year before. I know they changed. The new offensive coordinator come in. He lost his key wide receiver who got drafted. So I give him the benefit of the doubt. So you liked all the personality stuff you read because that was the big

takeaway after the draft when he came to Foxborough and, and it seemed like everybody was kind of enchanted by him. He just seems like this charismatic leader. I'm all about my team and my teammates kind of guy, which I feel like that's mostly the position. Well, you and I talk a lot about leadership and who can walk into that huddle and lead that huddle. And then we talked about the first round pick, the first pick that went to...

Caleb. Yeah, Caleb. I'm not sure that guy can walk into every huddle the same way maybe Drake May is going to be able to walk into the huddle. That way maybe Drake May is going to be able to walk into the huddle. That's my take. And that means an awful lot. You know, we saw it with Mac Jones. He wore out his welcome in that huddle. Yeah, I would say he didn't really walk into the huddle with a lot of, he didn't inspire a lot of confidence. No. And I'm hoping, you know, neither one of us expects Drake May to start the year.

That's why they have the set there. I'm fine with that. You know, I'm looking that we're in a three year rebuilding model, so to speak with the new coach and GM and dah, dah, dah. I'm glad that,

you know, I'm happy with who they've resigned from their own team. Right. Because they've resigned the good players. And I think that means a lot. We'll see what happens. But I still would, again, never having seen Drake play personally or even on TV. If they had traded down and we had taken Bo Nix or one of these, it would have been awful. Well, what would have been interesting is,

because Penix I think is the other one who has that leadership thing that we talk about. And I don't know if his body can hold up, but he clearly has the same kind of charisma. There's something about him and accurate. Like there's a lot of things to like, but it would have been crazy if they traded back thinking, you know what, we're actually going to take panics at 11. And then the Falcons out of nowhere, take him at eight.

The trade that made me pause, I got to admit was the Giants offering number six and their 2025 first for number three, which means they would have offered more, right? That was their offer. Maybe the hats could have countered and gotten a second out of it. So then we would have taken McCarthy probably. Right. And I would much rather have Drake May. But when I read that, I did do the double take

because I was thinking the Giants are going to suck next year. Like that's, especially like if they're trading up to get Drake May, who's, you know, I think is probably a two-year project. They have Daniel Jones as their QB

coming off of, you know, a major injury. They're in a really hard conference and that's probably a top five pick next year. So if you like mccarthy 98 as much as drake may you probably make that trade and try to get other stuff but that was the point they love mccarthy all right they love drake may which is kind of where i landed with the whole thing too it just feels like if you have a chance to get josh allen you got to do it

yeah well the other thing is if if they't even get McCarthy at six let's say everything I'm reading says the quarterback class next year is terrible it is so where are we I think they had to do what they did well they also you know they have new coach

I don't know if you knew this but they changed their coach they used to have Bill Belichick now I heard Belichick, now Gerard Mayo. I heard Belichick was heading toward the ringer. That'd be great. Gerard Mayo, like big energy, trying to change the atmosphere. And a lot of it has been about, there was just a certain atmosphere that after 20 years, now it's more transparent and they're more time with media members and

it's just happier and more inclusive. Who knows if that'll work? We've seen that go sideways with a bunch of our favorite teams. But you have that combined with Drake May who's like, I'm just here to take care of my linemen. If any endorsement I get, they get a cutoff.

It does feel like it's going to be some at least good vibes next year. And it'll be fun to watch. Maybe he'll be good and they'll have to play him immediately. They're in a nice spot where they can just play Brissette and take it easy with them. But if he's kicking ass in practice and he's clearly the best guy, they're going to play him. They're saying what they should be saying.

We're going to give them time. And that's why we brought Russ Ed in. But I agree. If he's kicking ass in the training camp and then into preseason, you know, and they bring him into preseason games, and suddenly our new wide receivers are getting open and da-da-da, and things change. I don't know. I haven't looked at our

schedule, whether it's tough in the beginning or tough in the end. I mean, it was tough in the end. I think the team, the defense is going to be good. I thought our defense was good last year. And who knows? Maybe new coaches and they can at least be

a little frisky. But at least there's some hope and there's some energy and some personality, which we did not have. Last year was really grim and bleak. Oh, it was terrible. But, you know, nobody is sympathetic to us across the country. No, never. No. You know, we had our run for 20 years and nobody cares if we never have another run except us.

What's the Robert Kraft kind of vibes in Boston after that winter? He's not getting much press. I don't know if I'm, did I mention to you that he was at game two? Yeah, you said that the Jumbotron, he just kind of got the apathetic reaction. Yeah, there was, in past years, if he was at the game or Belichick was at the game,

there'd be a pretty loud applause when they showed on the Jumbo. But it was just a muted response. No boos, just kind of muted. Maybe that's what you would expect. People just, nobody knows the truth about lots of things that went on. It was a pretty ugly winter. But now that's the great thing about the NFL draft. All of a sudden, Drake May, handsome guy, same girlfriend since seventh grade.

Here are my brothers. I'm just here to win and make friends and be a great patriot. Seems super loyal. If he has the same girlfriend since seventh grade, I feel like he's never going to leave. He'll never be dangling some possible free agency. He's just here. We got him.

I was reading an article about him that his offensive coordinator from his, not the past year, but the year before, left to go to Wisconsin. Yeah. And there were a lot of rumors that Drake would go with him. And Drake said, no, I'm staying. He went to the coach in the athletic breakfast. He said, I'm staying here. Yeah.

My loyalty. This is my team. This is my team. This is my team. And that doesn't happen much anymore with the people being able to transfer every year now. I mean, there's no loyalty anymore in college sports like there was. Yeah. So that impressed me.

Of course, it's not going to matter unless he's a good football player, but everybody says he's a good football player. Well, the thing is, they could still fuck this up. They could throw him in too early. He could lose his confidence. We've seen a lot of talented quarterbacks where that could happen, but it seems like they're approaching this the right way.

So I'm optimistic. The only caveat I have here is three years ago when I was at your house in Los Angeles and Kyle was there and the draft was going on and we were so excited that maybe Mac Jones would drop to us at 15. Yeah. No, the biggest rooter was Kyle and he was so excited.

Kyle has the jersey still. And so you never know what's going to happen. But I think Mac Jones is a really good example of how this goes wrong, that the team has as much accountability. I still feel like there's an alternate universe where he's a good QB. They gave him that second year, no quarterback coach, no offensive coordinator, no weapons, and he lost his confidence. The guy who played in year three was a fucking shell of himself.

I mean, that Germany, that touchdown pass that was the interception in the Germany game is the worst pass in the history of the franchise. But the guy who played in year one had confidence. Yeah, he had it. Had a pretty good year. Yeah, but that's the thing. That's when you have these guys. This is like an asset you have to protect.

And I think I'm pro Belichick. I, I, you know, so as you are so happy past our lives, you're going to ding them on anything. It's that he did not put Mac Jones in this, in a position to succeed as the quarterback. And by the way, I think Jacksonville traded for him. I don't think it's over for Mac Jones. Like I think Zach Wilson, Trubisky, some of these guys, I don't see it. But Mac Jones, like, there's a world where he could be saved. It just wasn't going to happen with us.

Yeah, if he gets his confidence back and gets good coaching, which he didn't get the last few years here. Maybe he'll never come back. All right, Dad, good luck with the Bruins. Good luck. Game five. Are you taking my daughter to game five? I'm taking your daughter tomorrow night to dinner in game

five because I'm very saddened that she's leaving her freshman year and going home next week. I know. We're getting her back. You're passing her back. I'm trading I'm giving you a six-round pick. I'm getting my daughter back for three months. I can't wait. Yeah, it's your farewell play a six round pick. I'm getting my daughter back for three months.

I can't wait. Yeah, it's your farewell playoff game over there. Yeah. So looking forward to a win so that she and I can walk out of there feeling differently than we did after game two. All right. Good luck.

Thanks for coming on the pod. Thank you. Bye. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Sean Fennessy. Thanks to Nate Tice. Thanks to my dad.

Thanks to Kyle Creighton and Steve Cerruti. I'm going to be back here on Thursday with one last big podcast. Don't remember. Don't forget. And don't remember. Don't remember to forget. Don't forget that you can watch videos and clips from this podcast at youtube.com slash bill simmons. Don't forget about my profit boost token, which is on Fando sports book.

30% I will have some sort of bet idea for you on Wednesday on my Twitter feed. I'll see you on this podcast on Thursday. Must be 21 plus, 18 plus DC. I'm a person never lost it. I don't have to give up. Must be 21 plus, 18 plus DC, and present in select states. Fandle, offering online sports wager in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino, LLC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit Fandle.com slash RG.

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