The Bill Simmons Podcast - The NBA Makes History and Discussions With DeRay Mckesson, Chris Mannix, and Chiney Ogwumike

Episode Date: August 28, 2020

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by civil rights activist and podcaster DeRay Mckesson to discuss the great strides made by Campaign Zero in police reform, the NBA players’ decision to pause the playoffs in wake of the shooting of Jacob Blake, how NBA teams could make the greatest impact in their own cities, and more (5:50). Then Bill talks with Chris Mannix of Sports Illustrated and DAZN about journalism and media rules in the NBA bubble, Wednesday's meeting with NBA players and coaches, and more (34:20). Finally, Bill talks with L.A. Sparks forward and ESPN radio host Chiney Ogwumike about key subplots as we approach the WNBA playoffs, some heartwarming Kobe Bryant stories, the Clippers' new stadium in Inglewood, the challenges of hosting a live radio/TV show, and more (1:06:25). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Apply. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network and the ringer.com. Had a lot of good pods this week. A lot of timely pods because there was, you'd think, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, there were a lot of balls in play. Who knew what was going to happen, how it was going to play out? We covered all of it on the Ringer NBA show. We covered it on Bakari Sellers' podcast ryan russo had rajah bell today the ringer nba

show multiple times including an emergency pod yesterday after the bucks decided to boycott game five of the orlando series and i went on r2c2 with cc sabathia and ryan ruko and when i went on it was it was 330 pt PT is about two and a half hours after the bucks had boycotted the game. And, and we were really pessimistic that the season was going to continue. It just felt like everything was cratering. And what happened over the next few hours, I think is what makes the league so great and has made it such an essential point of American culture really since the fifties the 50s from the moment Bill Russell showed up where it starts out, the Bucs just organically in their locker room

decide they're not going to play. And the dominoes that fell, how the players handled it, they all get in a room, they talk it out, they don't do anything too rash. They clearly want in a room. They talk it out. They don't do anything too rash. They clearly want to do something. They're clearly affected. They're clearly there for each other in a lot of different ways.

And, you know, everybody decided to sleep on it instead of making some decision that 24 hours later they might regret or that they wish they'd put more time into. Comes back today i think i don't want to say cooler heads prevailed because there's i don't think any any reason to have a cooler head in this situation i just think they probably looked at it from a big picture standpoint what's my platform worth what is it worth for us to be here versus if we weren't here

and we canceled the season and in two weeks, everybody just moves on to football and our message could get lost in a variety of ways. I'm really glad that, that they arrived at the point that the, that the games could keep going because I think what we saw this week was part of the reason that they wanted to have, you know,

participate in the bubble in the first place. They wanted a chance to use their platform participate in the bubble in the first place. They wanted a chance to use their platform and they used it in a way that, um, was certainly one of the most memorable days and weeks in the history of the sport. And, um, and it's consistently amazing to me that this league, which is filled with a lot of young people, let's be honest. And, you know, LeBron is considered the old veteran. He's only 35. Not that old.

I would take 35 right now. I'm 50. I think about all this shit I learned just from age 35 to age 50, you know, and you have these decision makers who, Chris Paul, Andre Guadagno, LeBron, people like that, who have led full careers at least. And then you have younger people that have really led the way in a lot of different ways. And I think the cool thing about what happened yesterday and today for me is just like they were kind of ready for a moment like this. Maybe unprepared right away just because everything was moving so fast, but the

way they navigated it was really impressive. And, you know, for me, it's like if they had decided the basketball needed to go away and their hearts weren't in it, or it was, you know, just not what they thought it was going to be, that their message was getting lost, whatever, and it was time to go, then it would have been totally understandable. I think that how it played out was the right way for it to play out. And they raised a shitload of awareness. How it plays out going forward, we're going to talk about with DeRay McKesson, a little bit with Chris Mannix.

And then for the first time, Chanae Agwumike, who is a favorite of Jalen and Jacoby. So it was only natural she was going to come on at some point. This is the perfect time for her to come on and talk about some of the stuff the WNBA is doing as well. Fascinating times and depressing times because the Jacob Blake thing, you know. We're going to talk to DeRay about it coming up. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, he's the host of Podsafe for People. He's done a lot of good stuff.

He was on this podcast probably 10 weeks ago. But meaning to have you on again, I didn't realize that all of a sudden we would have some timely stuff to talk about. But Doraemon Kasson, first of all, how are you? I'm good. You know, it's a wild time. It seems like it is only getting more wild, but I'm okay. I think that we have a real chance to win in this lifetime, and I believe that.

So I'm like doubling down on him. So last time you were here, you were getting the 8 Can't Wait going and really had gone up a level with educating the public about different things with the police and what was going on. And you had immediate impact and success with that. Just tell us what the last 10, 11 weeks have been like. Yeah, so 8 Can't Wait was a big success. In the 100 largest cities, we've seen about 80, 85 of the 100 largest cities adopt at least one policy or in the process of

adopting a policy, which is huge. It's like one of those things that is unprecedented in American history. You think about the ban on chokeholds and strangleholds, like a ban on all neck restraints. When we initially started, there were only 28 cities in the United States that banned all neck restraints. Since then, 33 more cities have either outright banned them, and 26 cities, in addition to that, are in the process of banning them. So there are only 13 cities in the 100 largest cities that have not either banned them or in the process. So it's unprecedented. This is more changes than have ever happened in American history, more changes with regard to restricting or reducing the power of the police. And it is it's a big win.

We know it's a beginning, though, right? Like this isn't this is one step. There are a host of other things that need to happen, which is why we're working on police unions now. But over 300 cities, Bill, have been impacted by It Can't Wait. It is more, the federal government can only intervene in three police departments a year. We've done 300 cities in 60 days, which is wild. So most people, they think like when you're pushing progress like this, it's like, oh man, it'll get bogged down. It's going to take forever.

How have you been able to find some shortcuts to get this to move in a much, much faster way? So what we realized is like with these use of force policies, like requiring de-escalation, making a duty and intervene, banning chokeholds, banning shooting into moving vehicles,

is that there matters a policy in almost all the cities in the country. So the mayor just has the power to do it or the police chief has the power to do it. And like, there are not a whole lot of things that don't require votes or legislation, but this is one of them. And when we started this project in 2015,

like that was what appealed to us. It's like, they could actually make this change overnight and a lot of places actually did. So there are, you know, Louisville, Louisville, you know it because Breonna Taylor got killed in Louisville. They're actually about to vote on a set of the eight, like to restrict the power of the police there. They, as you know, they did ban no knock raids, which is also a good thing that they did. So, so these changes could happen quickly and they did, which is cool. Not everything could happen this quick,

but this was movable. So the stuff you're doing is obviously a little bit controversial. You're going to get criticized like, oh, this can't work or why they do it this way. Is there a fair criticism of anything that you've tried to do so far that made you rethink like, Oh yeah, that's actually, they there's something to that. Or, or do you feel like a lot of the stuff you're doing is just unassailable? Well, I think that people, I think that what is true is that there's no one solution that gets us to zero, right? Moving the money, you know, decreasing police budgets alone won't end police violence. Changing the use of force policies alone won't end police violence, right? Like, undoing some of the carceral state won't end police, like, this is both and, not either or. And I think there were some people who thought we were saying, this is the fix, right? Like, this is the thing.

And like, it's not. And we knew that going in, that this is the floor, not the ceiling. This is saying, like, these are basic things that need to be in place. They're not in place. A lot of people think they're in place. Like, you'd be shocked, though,

about the number of people who thought chokeholds and neck restraints were banned, and they weren't, right? They just aren't. So one of the criticisms we got, a heavy one, they were like, you know, chokeholds have been banned in New York City and Garner still got killed. And you're like, chokeholds were banned. Strangleholds were not banned. That is why we're calling for a ban on all of them, right? So like, so that was, you know, so if people thought that we were saying that this was the answer, then like we weren't, right? We were saying this is one of the answers because we know no one strategy is good enough to get us. So when

we think about like this question of like, how do you eat an elephant? It's one bite at a time, right? Some people can interpret that to mean one bite after another, which is incrementalism. When I hear that, I think about like all these people biting at the same time, right? It's like it is everybody, but it's like a million strategies all on this abiding at the same time, right? It's like, it is everybody, but it's like a million strategies all on this big target at one time. Like that's what we need to do. Right. So defund the police is one of the, one of the things that got a lot of steam this summer. And to me, I think people get caught on defunding the police versus, um, diffusing the power of police unions. Can you explain in your opinion, the difference between those two things? Yeah, so that's the thing is I don't think that this is about an either or.

I don't think this is like a sort of versus. Well, what I think is true is that the police unions have a huge amount of leverage in every aspect of discipline, accountability, and what most people don't realize is with regard to the budgets themselves. So like, I don't know if you knew that there are some of the major police unions in the country actually got pandemic money, PPP money. They got huge amounts of money from the federal government, which is wild because like they don't need money. There's no layoffs happening at police departments. But even more importantly, there are a lot of contracts,

police union contracts across the country that make it impossible for cities to really decrease the budget. So the Seattle City Council was, they said they were going to cut the police budget by 50%. Okay, let's do it. They started to do the cuts and realized they could not do cuts like that without engaging the police union contract. It was impossible. The reason why the officers who killed Breonna Taylor couldn't be suspended immediately without pay, they're still not suspended without pay, is because the contract prohibits it, right? In places like Columbus, Ohio, in Columbus, the contract says that you can't civilianize the work of the police department. So you couldn't transition current police duties to civilians, to non-police, without engaging the police union contract. So like, when I think about defund, when I think about moving the money away

from police, when I think about investing in alternatives, what we saw from a structural level is that in almost all the cities, it is impossible to actually do the transformative thing you want around the budget without dealing with the police union contract in the first place, right? Which is why we launched Nix the Six, which is the biggest database of police union contracts in the country. And there are 20 states that actually have police officer bill of rights at the state level that provide protection. So you know Kenosha because the latest killing that went viral was in Kenosha or the latest shooting was in Kenosha.

Kenosha, small town in Wisconsin, the Kenosha police union contract has a police officer bill of rights that gives the police special protections during interrogations. That's wild. So, I mean, that's a good test case for this, right? If we're going to make progress in all these things, how do you do it when it's like, then you have a Kenosha, which is like, it's not one of the 100 biggest cities that, you know, you're dealing with. We have so many cities and towns in these places. Do you feel like it's just going to be impossible to have some sort of common framework that could deal with all cities, big and small? No, I don't think it's possible at all. I think that, you know,

this is why we focus so heavily on the data to lead us is that you think about Kenosha, what the data shows us is that the police kill more people in suburban communities than almost all other communities combined. So Kenosha is more representative of where the problem is than most of the cities you see on TV. Wauwatosa is another place in Wisconsin. In Wauwatosa, there's one officer who's killed anybody in the past five years. He has killed three people in the past five years. He got a medal for killing the first person. He got suspended for killing the second person. and he's under investigation for the third. Wauwatosa has

like 50,000 people in it. I just had a call with the Wauwatosa organizers last week. These towns, Kenosha, Wauwatosa, they are Wauwatosa. It's Wauwatosa, Lord. Every time I say Wauwatosa, people are like, it's Wauwatosa. Sorry. Wauwatosa. I just had called the Wauwatosa, Lord. Every time I say Wauwatosa, people are like, it's Wauwatosa. Sorry. Wauwatosa. I just called the Wauwatosa organizers the other day. Is that these towns, these suburbs are more representative of like where the problem is most acute. So our solutions have to hit those places. So what kind of, so this, I'm trying to remember the exact week you came on. I think it was the first week of June when you were here.

Yeah, yeah. And I think your profile raised in a couple different ways over the next few weeks. And I know you have, you know, famous people, celebrities, people in positions of power that are reaching out to you, asking you to talk to small groups, spend some of your time educating different people. What out of all those interactions, what, what's been the most memorable or surprising to you? Um, just of different groups of people that you've talked to. Oh, this is an easy question. So, uh, there, so in Pasco County, Florida, there's a group of women, mostly women and like a couple of guys, like eight of them, who emailed and they were like,

hey, they thought my account was like a fake account. So they're like, hey, you know, this is for DeRay, but, you know, if somebody can read our use of force policy, because Pasco County is a collection of places with police departments and not one of the biggest hundred cities. So her name is Keisha. And I reply, I'm like, yeah, I'll do it.

Like, can't wait to be there. And they're like, really? And I'm like, oh yeah, I can't wait to Like, can't wait to be there. And they're like, really? And I'm like, oh yeah, I can't wait to do it. Hop on Zoom with them. And when I tell you about, they were ready. They got their use of force policy.

They had read it all. They were like, you know, I'd read it too. And I was like, here's where I think it falls on the eight. And they were like, we disagree with you, DeRay. And I'm like, I love it, right?

Like they totally took it. They ran with it. They're fighting their police departments now about it. Like they were a really good example of like, build a framework. People can use it. And like, they were a really good example of, like, build a framework. People can use it. And, like, they knocked it out. There's another, there's a young man, 16-year-old in Needham, Massachusetts.

Same thing. He emails me at, like, 11 p.m. He's like, hey, I'm going to meet with the police chief soon. Can you help? We hop on the phone. We walk through the use of force policy. He wants to talk about the contract and all this other stuff. And then he just runs with it, right?

And, like, that's how we got to over 300 cities in 60 days is because people like took the information. There was a mayor in California. She emailed us probably week three and she's like, to whom this may concern, we got, she's like, I got 3000 emails. You have flooded my inbox. Can you please do a petition so people stop emailing?

I get it. And we're like, no, we want people to stress you out until you fix the policies, right? So those are by far like the best interactions we've had. And I, Steve Kurt talked about how you talked to all the NBA coaches on a zoom. Oh, did he tell you that? Yeah. He talked about it on a, on his flying coach podcast. Yeah. So you talked to, you talked to all three of the coaches cause they've been, I think, really, not aggressive. I'm trying to think of the right word. Proactive.

They were great. With how to get involved with stuff. They were great. So the coach of the Mavericks. Rick Carlisle. Great. He's great. I don't even know what city the Mavericks are.

Dallas. Okay. But he is great. I talked to him and like, he, he's such a good example of like, he called. And when I tell you he knows that policy, I mean, he knows it. Like he was like, you know, I went in the meeting and da, da, da, and it's like, you don't, you don't really need me. Like I'm making, I'm making you feel comfortable. But what you just said is like spot on. Like, he just like nailed it and he, he got it. I can't even, I can't like sing his praises enough. Like he really understood it, but he was a good example of like, this work is not too complicated for anybody to learn.

And like, we know it well, cause we do this all day, every day, but everybody can know it well. And part of our responsibility is to help people understand it. And like the coach that he, you know, I had a call with him probably a couple of weeks ago where he called for it. He was calling to just check in. And it was like, you got it guy. Like you, like he has it, you know? So he's a gold standard. All right. So we're taping this. It's like two 30 on Thursday afternoon, Pacific time, the NBA decided to, um, that they're going to resume play this weekend. It seemed a little dicey last night. I was, I was actually wondering if it was, but that the season was potentially gonna get canceled. I think a lot of those guys were in pain and they were confused and trying to figure out

why they spent the last four or five weeks, not only trying to bring basketball back to, but to use their platform to make this huge statement. And then we get another shooting and it's like, what am I doing here? If, if you had, as they're trying to figure this out on Wednesday night and they have this huge meeting, all the players are in a huge ballroom with the coaches.

They eventually asked the coaches to leave. If you had just been there as like a conciliary, as they're trying to figure out how do we use our platform? What should we care about here? Because it was, it was obvious they want to provoke some sort of change, but as you know, in America, it's hard to just snap your fingers and make seven things happen. So if they looked at you and they said, help us, what, what should we care about short

term and longterm? What would you tell them? Yes. The only thing I'll say to frame this is I'm going to push on this idea that it's hard to snap your fingers and make change because if Trump has showed us anything, he has showed us that the government can move as quick as it wants to, right? That's fair. Who thought you could just rip up mailboxes?

Like, he's ripping up mailboxes, right? Right. Or like banning whole people from the country on Twitter. You're like, I didn't even know that was possible, right? But this administration has been a reminder that if we want to do it, we could do it, right? When I think about what I would say to the NBA players, one would be, is there a way for your, whatever the community apparatus for the team is to check in for some local demands? Because like, you know, there are 18,000 police departments and most of this stuff sort of matters differently at the local level.

But in terms of things that across the board are important, there are a couple of things that I'd say. One is in the 20 states that have officer bill of rights, we need to repeal them. Like they just got to go. The oldest one is in Maryland. It's from the 70s. The newest one, you probably don't know that Georgia actually wrote, passed and voted on a law, an officer bill of rights during the last protest. After George Floyd got killed, after Rayshard Brooks got killed, Georgia passed an officer bill of rights. So, like, they all got to go. None of them have ever been repealed. And, like, the only reason they survive is that people don't know they exist.

And the clauses in them, like in Louisiana, officers get 30 days before they can be interrogated. Like, you know, in Maryland, the law says that you can't file an anonymous complaint of brutality against a police officer. So if a police officer beats somebody up or kills somebody, it cannot be an anonymous complaint. So there are all these things that are bad in these laws. So that would be one is for them to publicly come out and say, we should undo those. For them to, wherever their city is, to work to make sure that the police union doesn't have the power to intervene in discipline, accountability, those sort of frameworks. I think we can ban no-knock raids. There's no need for them across the country. And ending qualified immunity. We can do it at the state level. The

Supreme Court's probably not going to do it for a long time. Federal government's not going to do it until we get Congress back. But the states can ban qualified immunity immediately. And those four things, I think, are things that would actually change the outcomes. Because here's the thing, the police have killed 751 people so far this year in 235 days, right? Like it is, it's unrelenting, but those four things combined,

and some separately, would actually help us lessen the numbers. And that's what we're trying to do, right? We're trying to get to zero. I think what you laid out makes sense with the framework of the NBA, because basically you're saying it's not some sweeping thing that would be, oh, we'll do this and it'll be for the whole nation. You actually have to each take care of your own city and your state where the players and the coaches and the owners have immense sway. You know, you look at the Celtics, they have, I don't know, four famous guys,

maybe five that could be on the ground in the cities. Um, you have an ownership group that has a lot of money. That's all local. Um, you have a team that's super famous. And if they just try to like, we're going to take care of Massachusetts, you guys worry about your things and everybody's kind of splitting up the territory. It would seem like that would be the easiest way to provoke change because I still feel like the guys matter the most where they play over anywhere else. They're going to have the biggest impact there. Does that make sense? Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. So here's the thing about the criminal justice stuff. There are some things that can only be fixed nationally. Like healthcare is a national thing, right? Like,

the federal government has to do that. We think about, like, food stamps, like, those things are national. Like, the federal government does that better than anybody. The criminal justice stuff is almost all local. There are 18,000 police departments. The federal government has very little ability to do anything to them besides give them money or restrict money. Like, that's it. That's really the only oversight. And then when we think about prisons and jails, it's like there are around 250,000 people incarcerated in the federal system. There are 1.8 million people incarcerated in state and local jails. Like, it is, this is a heavily local, like, this is local, you know?

So that is the single biggest thing that people can do is like, we have to fight this locally to get the big wins. And like, I do believe we can get them. I think you're right. That the more and more that people focus on the local stuff, like we'll get it. The federal government, like the justice and policing act is more good than it's bad. Um, but again, like the real big changes will come at the local level. Yeah. Cause it was interesting reading some of the stuff that trickled out of the meetings yesterday where they're like, the players want more from the owners.

They want more from the leagues, but they couldn't totally identify what they wanted. They just, they know they want something and it would seem like really they want a plan and they want advice on stuff and like some sort of strategy. And I think that's where I don't want to say they've stumbled, but it's just really complicated. You know, it's, you're talking about a local strategy. You're talking about a countrywide strategy. I think one of the things that they've gotten momentum on is voter reform. Um, and some of this stuff, LeBron's done been great, but do you feel

like voter reform and police reform should almost go hand in hand here? Yeah, so voting is important, right? We think about voting as like a tool in the toolbox and there's no way to build the house you want without using all the tools, right? So will the tool of voting build the house? No, there's no one tool that'll build the whole house. But do you need this tool to build the house you want? Absolutely, right?

So that's how I think about voting is that like we need the end of qualified immunity, no, not the end of Officer Bill of Rights. All that stuff. They are all the tools in the toolbox. And if we don't use all the tools, we just won't build the house we want. And voting is one of the necessary tools. I think that where people go off, they veer off on the deep end is when they're like voting is the tool that will build the house.

And you're like, my life is showing me that's not true. I voted my whole life and got dragged out of police department by my ankles. You know, like I got the first person ever permanently banned from Twitter was banned for raising money to get me killed. my life has shown me that's not true. I voted my whole life and got dragged out of police department by my ankles. Right. You know, like, I got, the first person ever permanently banned from Twitter was banned from raising money to get me killed. Like, voting didn't stop those things, right? I also, to your larger point,

when you think about the team, the teams remind me of businesses, right? Because they are businesses. Most businesses are really good residents and really bad neighbors, right? And, like, what a resident does is a resident says, I'm trying to take care of my house, right? My lawn is cut. Like the people in my house are fed. Like people in my house are safe. What neighbors do is they say the neighborhood is good, right?

So a neighbor says, I might not even have kids, but I want the school down the street to be the best school that can be, right? A neighbor says, I'm not gay. I don't know queer people, but I know that that queer resource center down the street needs resources and should be safe. And like, that's my commitment as a neighbor. I want to make sure everybody in my neighborhood has what they need. And the teams have an opportunity not just to be good residents, right? Which most businesses do really well. They have an opportunity to be good neighbors and say that the only way to keep the neighborhood safe is if the police have less power, right? If the police aren't killing people, if the police aren't harming people, if we transition from a system that says that you need somebody with a gun to show up every time that there's harm, right? You don't need somebody with a gun to show up when there's a mental health crisis, right?

Like neighbors say those sort of things. And we need more neighbors. What was your reaction when you heard about the, uh, boycott, which is, which somehow grafted into a postponement, but it was a boycott. The Bucks decided not to play. And that was the third time. And I think the second time in NBA history where games had just been canceled like that. What was your reaction just hearing that they did that? So when I heard about the strike, I was shocked. I was like, okay, okay. Like I saw the still on Twitter of nobody walking out and I was like, whoa.

You know, when I think about, and then I got nervous and I'm like, okay, I hope something comes out of it. Like, you know, so I hope that that, that incredible amount of attention turns, turns into something systemic because, you know, the police don't have good responses for anything you lob their way. Like, it's not like they have some amazing response about why officers can't be interrogated immediately or something or qualified immunity. Like they don't have it. So, so I'm hopeful that like a set of demands comes out because the only negative response will be the police fear mongering. Like that is, that have it. So I'm hopeful that a set of demands comes out because the only negative response will be the police fear-mongering. That's it. What do you say when people throw

that at you? What's your response to that? What? When people say, all the stuff you're doing, it's making people hate the police. If you were criticized for that, what would your response be? So we look at poll data, let's be clear, people, the police favorability has not decreased. People still like the police, you know, it just hasn't, hasn't happened. You look at the RNC and they, you would think that there was some full-fledged attack on the police. Remember the leading cause of death amongst police officers is suicide. People are not out here attacking the police, like that's not happening. And the police will tell you, you know, we did A Can't Wait. One of the criticisms we got is that people are like, this doesn't matter. We've already done this. It's like, A, we didn't do it already. But the police unions are still fighting us tooth and nail about these things. And these are basic. We're

like, you shouldn't be able to choke somebody to death. In New York, there are like over 12 police unions that have come together to attack the mayor and the city council as they went and criminalized chokeholds. The unions are like, this will hamstring us. I can't believe you would say that we can't put our hands around people's necks. You're like, what? You know, so it doesn't make sense. And the more and more voices we have out there pushing on all of these fronts, like the better it is. So when people come to me with that, I'm like, you know, that doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. The other thing I ask people is like, um, you know,

when should the police be able to kill your child? Right. Right. Like what is the, what's the moment when like, they should be able to kill your child. Who, who is the, you, the, you for voter reform? Is there a, you like all the stuff you've done, all the, like, I know me personally, I've learned so much just from all the work you guys have done over the last six years. Not, I mean, not just the last three months. Is there a way to do that for voter reform? And do you feel like there's that kind of information? Is it exist? Is there a way for anybody to pull that off? Yeah, I do think that, I think, I like there's that kind of information? Does it exist? Is there a way for anybody to pull that off? Yeah, I do think that. I think there are a lot of good groups. You know, I'm on the board of Rock the Vote. Shout out to Rock the Vote. I think Rock the Vote does a great

job. I think that generally on the left, what we haven't figured out in terms of storytelling is like how to tell stories to like our family members. I think that like when you turn on some of the cable news, it's like the elites, it's like PhDs talking to PhDs all day about voting and all sorts of stuff. Not anybody talking to like somebody in your house

right now who like you're trying to have a real conversation. So like when we talk about no-knock raids, Netta, who's one of our partners, you know, she said something today.

She was like, the red house are breaking. She said the police are breaking into people's house. And I'm like, you're right. That's like the simplest way to talk about a no-knock said, the police are breaking into people's house. And I'm like, you're right. That's like the simplest way to talk about a no knock raid. They literally are breaking into people's houses. And like, of course, if somebody broke into your house, you would try

and stop them from breaking in. You didn't know it was the police, right? And it's like that framing, it's a break in, is something that I can tell, I can tell anybody that. Like that is, that to me is like a really good way to tell the story as opposed to being, it's a raid where like the police officers didn't give a warning before they walked in and the battering ramp, like you already aren't paying attention. It's a break in. Got it. Right. Right.

Um, and I think that we just have to be better at like telling those stories in ways that like really resonate. And that makes sense. Uh, last question. So if, uh, if Biden wins in November and we have a Democratic president, do you think that makes some of the stuff you're trying to do easier or does it not make a difference? I think it makes it much easier because, you know, when we think about Biden, it's like Biden and Harris are obviously important, but they'll be appointing so many people. The cabinet, like the hundreds of appointees across the government will actually have an opportunity to help us on this stuff. And I think that it'll be a sea change.

I think that there'll be a lot of movement. But again, the criminal justice stuff is pretty local. It's like still local. So Trump luckily has not had a big influence on like local things, like with regard to criminal justice. He has reinstituted the federal death penalty, which is a real nightmare. So the federal government will be able to stop that. But Biden and Harris will make it less hard

for people to do good work. But still with criminal justice, it's like heavily local. Is that a possible evolution for you? Like being part of an administration like that, having some sort of job and being on the inside? Probably not a job with them, but you know, we, we talked to most of the presidential

campaigns during campaign season. We sent over some recommendations. Some of them got adopted. Some of them were still sort of pushing the administration on. So, so I'm hopeful that they will do good. I think I, I want to stay on the outside right now, being able to like push the cities. Cause that's where the big change is, you know? Yeah, makes sense.

Well, it was great to see you. I appreciated being educated as always by you. You're one of the best experts that I think we have on. You're just full command. I don't know how you do it. All right, so the Pod Save the People podcast, what else do you have to promote? I go to nix6.org,

which is about police unions and officer bill of rights. And then we did this cool podcast with Jay Ellis. I think you know Jay. Do you know Jay? Yeah. Yep, Jay on Insecure. We did a four-part limited series podcast called The Untold Story Policing

that also is about police unions. That's not boring. It's very cool. And it helps you see why this is a big issue. So check it out. And hashtag 8can'twait. 8can'twait.org. Don't forget about that as well.

You got a lot of stuff going on. Thanks for coming on. I really appreciate it. Cool. Talk to you later. Bye-bye. All right, bringing in Chris Mannix in one second. First, FanDuel. This season, there's a brand new way

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You can actually feel it in the reporting from guys like you and Mark Spears. So what's the process like? How are you kind of sidling up to these guys, and what kind of information are you getting? Well, it's evolved since the very beginning. The very beginning, they said to you, like, you really can't do much in the way of one-on-ones. You can't do a lot of the sidling.

You know, they, they, they talk, they talk to you about limited access, but as time has gone on, a lot of the media rules have kind of loosened. And you've been able to, you know, you tell a PR guy like, I'd like to talk to Jalen Brown for five minutes. They go get you Jalen Brown. I'd like to talk to Carmelo for five minutes. They go get you Carmelo. I spend, you know, a lot of people like to go to games. I spend and have spent most every day in the Coronado Springs lobby where there are three practice floors.

And I go to every practice that's there. So teams go on and off. There are three hour windows that begin at about 10 AM and I might catch six teams a day. And when I do that at the bare minimum, I'm making eye contact with a coach. I'm getting, you know, some, some FaceTime with certain players. And more often than not, I'm doing five minutes, 10 minutes with, you know, Jason Tatum here, or, you know, Jamal Murray there, or, you know, just you're getting, like I was saying to you on the text, like you, you still can't, you can't walk up to LeBron and get stuff, but you couldn't do that anyway. So it's, it's not like I'm losing. I feel like I've lost anything being down here. Well, you also can't walk up to Jamal Murray because you might actually catch fire

because the guy's just a flameball right now. The biggest story of the bubble before everything that happened this week was what the fuck is going on with Jamal Murray? Is this guy one of the 15 best players in the league all of a sudden? I don't understand it. I could watch Jamal Murray and

Donovan Mitchell go at it for 14 games. Give me best of 14 with those two. Best of 15 with them. He's been wild. And Mitchell's been great. I mean, that whole series, you know, whenever this picks back up again, I hope that goes seven because those two guys just fun going back and forth at each other.

And he's kind of answering the question for me, Jamal Murray, like, is he your superstar? I think he is. Like, he's the guy that you can build around and win games for you late in the fourth quarter. Sharks and I, uh, from the ringer, he, we talked on Tuesday before that game, cause he was talking about, could that be a Ben Simmons destination? Would they have to give up Jamal Murray and stuff like that? And at that point, Murray had had two great games in the series, but that's kind of the MO with him where, you know, in a seven game series, he'll be awesome twice. But then you look around that one game and he's four for four for 15 or

whatever. Now he's had three career games in five. And I don't know how much of it is the, just the opponent and stuff like that, but him doing it again in game five made me change what I thought his ceiling might be. And I think you might be right. It's like, all right, this guy's going to do this three times in five playoff games. What's going on here?

Considering he's only in like 23 still. So he's got the swagger. Like it's right. It's in him. Like he wants the ball in those situations. I don't know. I'm not as I, more I watch him,

the more I wonder what all the questions were about him. Like, was it just that he wasn't like kind of true blue-chip guy coming out of college that you were sure was going to develop into that guy? The one question you have, and it's apparent watching this series, that Murray and Michael Porter Jr. have no idea how to play opposite each other at this point. Can they gain that with time? Because I think Porter's going to be a star, too.

And if you have those two guys, the question about how do they get buckets late in games is going to be inconsequential. Well, and then can you seriously compete for a title if Jokic and Murray are your two best guys and both of them are below average defensively? And then you have Porter who runs around like a chicken with his head cut off on defense.

And he admits it too. He admits it. I love him. He's just like, he said something the other day where he's like, yeah, I'm seeing a, you know, uh, Utah really go at me. He's like, hell I would too. I'm not very good. It's like, I'd probably do the exact same thing. Uh, the, and then the Utah story where everybody just kind of wrote them off completely. And I, that would not have been my pick to have turned into the best series. I want talk about the basketball stuff in a second I want to go backwards though you you and Mark Spears were really the first two people that I saw because I always go to the hoops hype rumors page and I

just because it's the best way to get all the tweets I don't like to go on Twitter that much um and both of you guys were like something's different something's going on you could feel it really I guess the Tuesday practices and just your interactions. Was that the first day you knew, or could you tell something was going on Monday with how the players were taking the news of the Jacob Blake video and all that stuff?

You caught a little bit of it on Monday, but it was mostly Tuesday where it all kind of settled in. And you start to really see the emotion on the faces of these guys. Just going from practice to practice and hearing guys talk about it, you knew this was bigger than anything that had happened up until this point. I mean, you sit there and listen to Fred Van Vliet

and the Raptors in particular, who just a week or so before that had to deal with the body cam footage of Masai Ujiri and what happened there. And seeing a police officer who they knew going in had lied about the interaction with Masai, seeing video evidence of it, and then for these guys to have to read and hear the sheriff's department out there continue to stand by the police officer. It really got to them. And this is kind of another one of the benefits of being inside the bubble. Even guys I'm not talking to, you can tell from talking to people around them just how much

they're feeling. And then you go over and you talk to Boston, specifically a guy, two guys even, Brown and Tatum. Brown is one of the most, I mean, he's going to be the president of the union someday. Like, he is a very passionate, he's very passionate on these particular issues. Hearing him speak about it, hearing Jason Tatum speak stronger about it than I've ever heard him speak before. Say stuff like, what I'm doing out on the floor

doesn't mean shit compared to what's happening out on the streets right now. shit compared to what's happening out in the streets right now. I mean, the language was different. The body language was different. And the tone of voice was different. I mean, and I've been to, like I said, all these practices for the better part of the last two months and the last two days, three days of practices have had a completely different feeling. I said this

before. It's worth saying again. It felt like going from practice to practice that the spirit inside this bubble had been broken. And that's all from watching the videotape from last Sunday. I didn't really fully realize it until Tuesday night when I saw Doc speak and some of the stuff he said that night. And I had already recorded my podcast. And I think I might have even been already up at that point. And I was like, oh, man, I just didn't realize, you know. And I think part of it is the isolation of being in the bubble. But then also, like, these guys are in there and they feel like they're making a difference.

And then that video comes out and everybody kind of looks collectively and questions it. Did you feel like I've, I went on CC and, uh, Rucos podcast last night, right. As this was cresting and CC and I both thought this, the season was going to be done, that this was kind of the moment where everybody just looked in the mirror and said, what are we doing? And it seems like that moment happened in the ballroom. And I think the smartest thing everybody did was like, Hey, let's pick this up again tomorrow versus making decisions. What did you hear about the ballroom?

Like how close was it to just completely falling apart? I don't think it was incredibly close. You know, the Lakers and Clippers, I reported this at the time, the Lakers and Clippers, I reported this at the time, the Lakers and Clippers did say we're ready to go home. But people in the room

who I texted afterwards were telling me it didn't feel like they were about to get on a plane and go. It felt like they were making their position known. They were going on record as saying we're ready to go home. So it surprised no one that 12 hours later,

the Lakers, LeBron James, they were ready to stay. Like they were willing to stay. So it got contentious at times. There were multiple players that were pointing the finger at the Bucs and wondering why they did this unilaterally. That's a big part of this. Yeah. You know, I was sitting outside that Bucs locker room. One of my big takeaways was you have to go leave the locker room to go to the bathroom,

right? There's no bathroom inside the makeshift locker room. And every player that walked out in the three hours that they were inside had their uniform on. So that told me that, you know, these guys at some point came to the arena, put on their uniforms, were getting ready to play, and something changed. Whether it was George Hill speaking out first. We've heard about Sterling Brown, who's had his own serious issues with police. And then Giannis gets on board. But it was probably within the hour of tip off that these players decided not to play. And around them, you've got the magic on the floor.

You've got the Miami Heat practicing up the street. You've got the Oklahoma City Thunder going through their warmups for a game that was going to take place two plus hours later. Inside that room, the ballroom, uh, there were a lot of, of players that were just asking Milwaukee, like, why didn't you consult us? Why didn't you bring everybody into this decision? Now, Jalen Brown, from what I told, and that's pretty unbrought again, you know, effectively told everybody to fuck off. Like, and just said that, you know, these guys can do, you know, whatever, whatever they want to do. But it was some, there was some consternation there about, you know, the Bucs not bringing everybody into the process because it did, Bill, it did kind of,

it kind of boxed the players in because, you know, once the Bucs did what they did, you know, there needed to be a plan. Like there needed to be a next step. And at that time, when those players met, there was no plan. I think that there needed to be a next step. And at that time, when those players met, there was no plan. I think that was my favorite thing about it though. It was completely organic. They showed up to play the game. They were all really upset.

And it seems like George Hill spoke up first. And then they started having a real conversation about it. And it became clear to them, maybe they shouldn't play. And then they went, they went through it. Like to me in this age in 2020 of there's just so much pandering to the culture and people making decisions based on how they think it's going to be received. And this was like the opposite of that. This was a bunch of guys who were just like, yeah, I don't really want to play either. Maybe we could make a bigger statement by not playing. Maybe this feels like

what we should do. And it, and it comes out and they do it. And I don't think they owed anybody anything. I agree. And no matter what happens, they changed the story and they escalated, uh, the response. Like, even though I don't love what the Wisconsin attorney general, uh, did afterwards. I mean, he, he basically weaponized them in a way when he went out and said, Oh, you know, the bucks are doing more than these two politicians.

They're like, don't do that. Like that's a shitty thing to do, but they, they elevated the conversation, a win over Orlando in game five with some strong postgame comments. Doesn't make the proverbial front page of the paper. Them sitting out becomes at least

a statewide story and clearly a national story. So no matter what your feelings are on how Milwaukee did it, what they did had a significant impact. And it was the right team to do it for a variety of reasons. One is this was their state. They had a history with this stuff. I think it's crazy that they were the first game just randomly. They easily could have been the second game or the third game, but they led the way. And then at that point, once that gets going, and then Orlando, who could have taken the forfeit,

that would have been probably a bad move. Once they're out, then it's the chain of events. But it is interesting that I, I think that says more about how the NBA and how tight the players are that people who kind of veered off that made their own decision. Everybody's like, wait, I thought we were all in this together, which I think ultimately is also a good thing that they felt like they had so much camaraderie. They felt like a tiny bit betrayed that these people kind of went off the reservation a little bit, but I'm glad they talked it out. The one,

one question I had about that ballroom thing is you have, I don't know, 200 players in there. How, how does that, I mean, we've been, I've been in situations where we've been in a room with like 60 people and people like it's always chaos. How do you navigate 200 players trying to have a voice? Do you hear anything about that? Well, there were two leaders in that room. Chris Paul and Andre Guadalla were leading that.

And what they effectively did was go around or ask people if they wanted to speak up and say something about it. The coaches were in that room in the beginning as well. So you're adding another 50 or so people into that mix. And they spoke, Doc, who you mentioned, I heard spoke extremely passionately. Armond Hill, an assistant coach on his staff, spoke. John Lucas, who's got a strong voice with players,

he also spoke. And then you go right down the list of, you know, LeBron, Carmelo, Damian Lillard, Kyle Korver, I heard had said a lot to say. You had a lot of guys speaking out. What you didn't have and what I was hearing from the room in real time, you didn't have any kind of action plan in that moment. Like players were saying, like, to move forward, we need something. We need movement on the issue of police reform.

We need owners to get on to get more on board with voting rights, things that have been important to them throughout. They needed more from these owners to keep this going. But the people that were texting me were just saying there really wasn't a plan of action. They know what they wanted, but at that time, they didn't really know how to achieve it and what to ask from owners. And I personally, and I actually had a back and forth on a quick back and forth on Twitter with Jason from your place, where I think owners have done a lot, frankly. I think that they have been incredibly supportive, obviously, throughout this process. When it comes to the anthem demonstrations, when it comes to the social justice messaging

on the back of the jerseys. They've done all that. They've also been financially supportive. I mean- 300 million. 300 million. Like you can say these guys' net worth is X billion, but 300 million is not nothing.

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Or maybe you did listen and you're super happy. Head to simplisafe.com slash BS. Get a free HD camera for my listeners. Once again, simplisafe.com slash BS to make sure that our show sent you SimpliSafe with two S. SimpliSafe.com slash BS to make sure that our show sent you SimpliSafe with two S. SimpliSafe.com slash BS. Back to Chris Mannix. At the same time, a lot to ask for these guys who are also expected to play in a playoff series and stay in shape and, you know, the mental game of just playing every other day in a high level series, you know, it's a lot. And, you know, it's going to be, assuming the playoffs now keeps going,

I think that's a lot to ask from guys in their 20s and 30s, you know? And I do think there's going to be some effects, and it's too bad. But it's an enormous ask, and it's completely unfair to ask, you know, and Jalen Brown said this, like, I'm 23 years old.

Like, you're asking me to carry the mantle on these issues when people that are two and three times older than me are, you know, ignoring it or kicking the can down the road. It's an enormous ask of these players. I'm just thinking that if they're looking, and I know they are, if they're looking for ways to accentuate

their message. And, you know, players have said this. They've said that they've felt like the social justice message in the last couple of weeks has been dampered a little bit. It hasn't had the same effect. I mean, the anthem, you know, at the very beginning, networks were showing the anthem on television. They were showing players kneeling. Now, and I haven't watched all the games, obviously, but now it doesn't seem like they're doing it quite as much, if at all, at this point. So, you know, if players want to find ways to ramp up the conversation from there,

and I think that is just one way to do it. Yeah, I was almost, I don't know if they could have done this, but it almost seems like it would have made sense to take a 48- hour break between each round to reset and use that time for, you know, whether you have maybe one team playing, playing per day or one game playing per day, something like that. But then use that time for some other stuff that is honestly going to get lost in the shuffle when you have four games a day. And you see like Saturday and Sunday, we had all these games, all these storylines.

We're still, and I had a podcast on Sunday night. Luca had just had this transformative game. And that's what we talked about. And that's all people want to talk about. So on the one hand, it's so great to have basketball back. But on the other hand, like the message for why, why those guys, Eric, it's pretty easy to get lost as the games get better and better and the stakes get higher. And I don't really know how you manage that. I don't know either. Um, and we know why the NBA is powering through this. They want to get out in mid October. They, you know, they don't want this thing dragging on any longer, but, but I agree with you. I mean, I think giving, giving games room to breathe, uh, the messaging room to breathe, I think it would be, it would be advantageous. I also, I mean, to your point about the bubble is clearly accentuating the

emotions of these guys. I mean, Paul George gave, you know, voiced, put thought to all this, put words to all this, but what Paul George has been feeling is not unique in here for players. There are a lot of guys that are going through some variation of that. And seeing what happened on that video on Sunday, combined with what they've already been feeling, has created even more emotion, I think, in a lot of these guys. It's interesting, though. Like, one question I've had, and I don in a lot of these guys. It's interesting, though. One question I've had, and I don't know if it would have made a big difference,

but Adam Silver is not here, and Mark Tatum is not here, the two top people within the NBA. Would it have made a difference if they were down here and able to kind of interact face-to-face over the last three or four days as these guys have been going through it. It's not to take away from what they've done, but I've wondered that. Every team down here, Bill, almost every team, they send their top basketball executive. The Celtics, they don't, although Mike Zarin would kill to be down here right now, I'm sure. But most every team sends a top basketball executive.

You see Messiah Jerry here. You see Sam Presti here. You see Lawrence Frank here. Um, Tim Conley, all the top executives. And they're here in part because if something goes wrong or if players are feeling a certain way, they want to know how they're feeling. They want to experience how they're feeling and go through the day-to-day of what they're going through. And Adam Silver and Mark Tatum not being here, I just wonder if that could have had any impact. If they could have been

here to walk into that ballroom and had a face-to-face conversation. There's been conversations, Zoom calls, lots of them. I mean, I'm not saying that Tatum and Silver aren't doing their jobs. They are, but I wonder how impactful it would have been if they had been able to connect visually, face-to-face, and have incredibly deep and meaningful conversations with these guys. Well, I think everything happened so fast yesterday.

If they weren't there, there was no way to get there in time, right? Well, no, but it's like... But yeah, should they have been there from day one? Yeah. He's been there though, right? He's kind of come in and out. He's popped in and out. And the plan has always been for him to be down here, I think, from the conference finals on. So he will be here. Just hearing it from these top executives about why they're here

and why it's important for them to be here. I think there would have been added value in having the commissioner or the deputy commissioner and look, Kiki Bandaway is here. Malik Rose is here. There are a lot of top level NBA executives here, but I mean, you know, Michelle Roberts is down here. I mean, she thought the same thing. She wanted to feel what these players are going through and feel and see them face to face. They've got another union rep down here as well. I just think there probably would have been value in, in experiencing this stuff over the last

couple of months. I think they, the mistake they made, and I felt this way before this whole thing happened was the eight games before the bubble and all the teams they had in there and stuff like that. I think they should have had four games max. And if, you know, somebody can get within three and a half games of, of Memphis or whatever it had to be, then do the double elimination game, whatever. But the goal should have been to move this long as fast as possible. I, and I, I said on this podcast, like a week and a half ago, I'd heard that they were trying to, that the players were starting to get a little, you know, not totally happy in the bubble. And they were trying to figure out ways to move stuff up so it could go

faster and faster and potentially move the finals up and stuff like that. And I, I'm confident that I had the right information on that. And now I think what we've heard the last 10 days or so backside up, like it's just, it's a, it's a hall. It's a hall to be,

you're probably used to it more than most. Cause you've lived, you said you've lived in New York City for how long? The last... I did about 13 years in New York City living in an apartment that's roughly the size of this room. So it's not all that unusual for me,

but for these players... And one thing that you need to think about is the next couple of weeks. We've heard a lot about how players miss their families, and they do. They want to have people come into this bubble and have a little bit of a sense of normalcy. But in the next couple of weeks, there are going to be an influx

of people coming in here. And something I've heard from people is that there's almost a sense of dread from some players about new people coming in here. They've kind of decided that they're putting their head down there's almost a sense of dread from some players about new people coming in here. Like they've caught, they've kind of decided that they're putting their head down and they're just getting through this.

Like this is, it's all about work. We're going to practice. We're going to work with a beer with our teammates. Like, I'm not so sure that, you know, players are looking forward to kind of seeing a bunch of people they don't

know hanging out by the pool or like, you know, people that are not here to work, you know, sneaking cell phone pictures of them as they're, I'm not, I just, and that's not a, I haven't heard that from a lot of people, but that's just something that started to inch into the, the, the water supply, so to speak in the last couple of days, as, as more people are kind of unleashed on this bubble and they're here for the first time. It's like, when you see like, it's almost like leaving Vegas, right?

Like you, you know, that escalator at McCarran airport, they should put a camera there where like the people going down the escalator that are showing up, people going up the escalator that are leaving. It's like a picture. It's like night and day. Like these players now at this point,

you know, it's not about fishing or golfing though. Some players still do that. It's about getting this done. Like this is now a full-time, you know, duty or job that they're going through. And the idea of kind of these fresh faces bouncing around, uh, without kind of those same responsibilities, I think that there's a, uh, trepidation, consternation, whatever word you want to use about that. How many, uh, tampering incidents have you witnessed either personally or from far away so far like under or over 10 it's under but

under i've witnessed i can't i don't know what it's like otherwise like i mean i don't know i don't know where like yannis is the one guy everybody was focused on but i don't think he's doing anything like i just think he's just you know i see him again going back to like the bucks meal room is in the spot that i sit in every day and i see him all the time walking up and down just grabbing a big bag, always with his brother, grabbing a big bag and going back up to his room with his ice around his knees. Who knows what else is happening otherwise?

I mean, it's probably wild out there. Well, there's a lot of golf too, right? Aren't guys playing golf? That seems like that'd be another place to try to get some information. Maybe just kind of hang around, maybe caddy. Maybe double bag it for somebody. I would be happy to go caddying

for anyone. I know Kyle Lowry plays a lot of golf. I'd go caddy for Kyle Lowry. Kyle, if you're listening, I will caddy for you tomorrow. But this is one of those things. It's one of those rules the NBA didn't really bend. They have kind of corralled us in an area that we can, you know,

matriculate around in it's like, you know, maybe a quarter mile tops. Uh, and then the rest of the area is off limits. Like once guys go by a certain area, our credential is not going to get us there. We can golf, which I haven't done yet, but we can only golf between like the hours of like our tee time is going to be hours of six and 7.. AM on like a Thursday. So it's, they're, they're very strict with where we can go and when we can ultimately do it. But that's, I agree, man.

I, I suck at golf, but I would play every single day. If I got a call from get some information. Yeah. If like Chris Quinn, no golf was the, I mean,

he's assisted golfs all the time. Like if Chris Quinn called me, it was like, I want to go play a team. Like, sure. I'll shank every ball into whatever hazard, but I'm with you, man. If you want to talk about the Jimmy Butler's influence on your team, how, what are the big bubble info people rivalries?

Is that like you and wind horse? You just need that talking anymore. Like how's any, any, uh, any near fights? Nothing. You guys are all getting along. No, no near fights yet. I mean, just some of the hardcore information guys, you don't see all that often, right? Like, you know, Woj is doing his thing a lot. Shaz is doing his thing. Stein and I spend,

I spend more time with Mark Stein than anybody. Like, cause he, Oh, that's a win. He'll tell you this. Like he, like he has embraced my philosophy of practices. Like he started out by going to games, but then he saw me sitting in the Coronado all day long and kind of like picked my brain about it for a second.

And then he's come on board with, let's just hang out at practice all day. Well, he invented sideling. So I'm not surprised to hear that. All right. One minute preview of Celts Raptors. Go. A lot of it

comes down to how the Celtics match up physically because they dealt with Embiid, but Embiid was a one-man band there. Gasol, Ibaka, those big guys there, how do they play? That's number one. Number two,

Marcus Smart shooting. Which has been awful. This is a series they miss Gordon Hayward. Hayward has been a little erratic, but these Raptors defenders, I think they've been as locked in as any team in the bubble. And I honestly think,

and the Celtics coaches disagree with me here, but I think they might have thrown that regular season game they played against Boston. I think they might have intentionally tanked that one. They were terrible in that game. But they were great in every other one. Boston. Like, I think they might've intentionally tanked that one. They were terrible in that game, but they were great in every other one. Right. So yeah, it was suspicious. I agree with you.

It's like, did they throw that? They throw that game. And if they did, you know, what does that mean? But they have a bunch of guys that fly around and defend you. So you have to make tough three point shots and that's where smart, you know, has to come in. He's going to defend. He'll play against Lowry. He'll play against Siakam. He'll do a great job

there, but he can't go three for 11. He can't jack up that many threes. My two questions are can Kemba hold up? Because Philly was an easy team for him to play. They had terrible guards. But on this team, on this series, he's going to have to play defense,

and they're going to have to put some real miles on him. And he looked great in that Philly series. So I'm optimistic, certainly more optimistic than I was two weeks ago. Um, but that's one. And then honestly, this is the best player in the series series. This is, you know, like how Denver and Utah has turned into Donovan Mitchell versus Jamal Murray for whatever reason that's. And whoever is going to come out of that, that team's going to win. If Tatum's the best part in the series, Boston's going to win.

And does he have it in him? Does he have it in him to go toe-to-toe with a team that just won the title, that's really proud, that's really smart, that's exceptionally well-coached? And can he be the best part in that series? And I actually think he can. I agree with you.

I think if that's what it comes down to, Boston wins the series. I think this is the coming out party for Jason Tatum. We thought it might have been 2018 when he was a rookie and he had all that success all the way to the conference finals. This is it. He is not only doing everything offensively, but defensively he's a menace.

You ask the coaches about him defensively, a lot of it's as simple as he's got his hands out now. He used to play with his hands all the way down. Now they're right. That wingspan is massive out there on the floor. If this is... I think he's going to have a monster series. I think Siakam's great, but Siakam hasn't been great

in this restart. Tatum has been locked in. I think he is going to play incredibly. If that's what it comes down to, Boston will win. And if Kemba can look like he did those last three games. Are you really worried about Kemba? Physically, I'm not worried about him anymore.

I wasn't until those last three games. I thought all of a sudden he looked like Kemba again. I'm like, alright, I'm not going to worry anymore because you look like you. I feel like they did some things with him in the restart. It's like, why are you playing him as minimum minutes through the first three quarters? Why is he not in at the end of games against the Milwaukee?

And there was another game he didn't play. I just feel like they were so incredibly overcautious with him to get him right here, just to make sure that when he goes out there, he can just go 35 minutes full bore. And as we saw the last three games, that's where he's at. Like physically, I, I was a little concerned going in, but, but now I have no concerns about him.

I was delighted by how good he looked. Well, we'll see what happens. It's going to be a great series. Chris Mannix, keep going, man. Good luck in the bubble. My pleasure, man. All right. Bringing in Sinead one second.

First, everyone knows about the risks of driving drunk. You can get in a crash. People can get hurt or killed. You know what's going on. Let's take a moment to look at some surprising statistics. Almost 29 people in the U.S. die every day in alcohol-impaired vehicle crashes. That's one person every 50 minutes,

even though drunk driving fatalities have fallen by a third in the last three decades. Drunk driving crashes still claim more than 10,000 lives each year. Drunk driving could have a huge impact on your wallet. You can get arrested. You can incur huge legal expenses. You could possibly even lose your job. So what can you do to prevent drunk driving? Plan a safe ride home before you start drinking. Designate a sober driver or call a taxi. And if someone, you know, has been drinking, take their keys, arrange for them to get a sober ride home. It would be the best thing you did for them. We all know the consequences of driving drunk,

but one thing's for sure. You're wrong. If you think it's no big deal, drive sober or get pulled over. All right, let's bring in Chanae. All right. Also in Los Angeles, where I am, Chanae Ogumunke. Did I say it correctly? You nailed it. I'm very, very happy you nailed it. Most people don't at all. Well, I have like pronunciation dyslexia, so I was worried, but I actually, you know, I studied. I want to make sure I got it. Let's talk about everything that's going on. I know everyone's asking, hey, what's going on? What's happening? Walk me through how you felt about the last 48 hours. First and foremost, I'm so glad to be here because, you know, a lot of my close friends at my employer, Jacoby and Jalen, they always talk about the podfather And this is on my bucket list

And so I feel like if you're the podfather I gotta be like a niece, hopefully Like those are my guys So if those guys love you Then I love you by proxy So as soon as they started talking about I had my eye on you when you started Filling in for Jalen

And I was like, wow, Jacoby Trusts her to sit in the Jalen seat. There's something, something's going on here. When I go in there, I say it's not J and J it's nay and J. But, but the last 48 hours, oh my gosh, like I'm still trying to process everything. Obviously, you know, as a country we are grieving again, but like the news broke with the boycott while we were starting our radio show. I'm working with Golik Jr. And so that news came at the top of our show. So immediately we're like, whoa. And we have only been on the air over a week. And so like dealing with news breaking was just a whole nother ballgame, but it just felt like we were in the middle of history.

And so like during this- But by the way, that's, you know, that's happened to me a couple of times, especially when I was at ESPN. It's like, it's kind of when the bread gets buttered, right? It's like, holy shit, this is a momentous thing. And I have a microphone and I have to think of things to say. Yeah. It's like, it's a game day. That's when you're like, OK, snap, like the game.

So it just was a lot. And I think me personally, I'm a member of the executive committee of the WNBPA. And so my phone is starting to blow up because they're in real time seeing the NBA's decision. And my sister is even texting me and she never texts me when I'm on air. And so she's texting me just like, I'm like, why is she texting me? She just needed like a sister, two minutes of like, Sinead, we're in this, like we are in this moment. And so I just sort of told her, I was like, Nneka, we're talking about it on air. We're talking about the bucks and the magic and also the implications. And we're following the timelines of the news breaking just and I guess internally I was like Nneka focus on one message and yeah I don't know if I

mentioned Nneka is the president of the WNBPA so uh just in the middle of like breaking the news to the American public while we're on radio and my sister trying to figure out how to manage that situation in the sense of a lot of players and emotions. It was a lot. And it's still ongoing right now. These conversations are being had. But one thing I'm happy about is that like there were moments where we were scared. We're like, we worked since March all the way till now to get the bubble together, you know, as a union. And so we're like, oh my gosh, is this the moment where the bubble bursts? Like, is this the moment where that happens? And so I feel good that the players, even though they took a day or two days, like they will go back to use their best platform and play because that's that collective platform. That's good. That's good for the moment and good for

our voices. Well, it's weird that we never realized that there was going to be a moment like this, right? Where the bubble is either made or the bubble bursts. Cause I gotta be honest, like by the time we got to last weekend, when they were real NBA subplots going, you know, like it was still, it was still in there. They were still raising consciousness. It was still in everybody's mind, but then you really start thinking about like, holy shit, Luka Doncic and stuff like that. And then the, then the last three days happened and it's like, oh yeah, that's, that's why we're here. I think everybody kind of felt that way to some degree. Oh, this is, this is why they wanted to have this platform. And I was nervous yesterday seeing how it was going to unfold because it seemed like it was going to combust there, um, for about four hours where it's just all of a sudden the emotions were so raw.

Got people in ballrooms. You have WNBA players about to play games, deciding whether they're going to, you know, do protest actually as the games are happening or they're not going to play. But it was a fascinating day in American sports history. It really was. It really was. And I always tell people like in real time, it felt like we're literally living through history. And it's like all these worlds collide, especially like for me in this moment, just because, you know,

there are situations in our communities that we are trying to advocate for. And then you have a mic in your face and then you have a sister in the bubble and you're on air and you're trying to do justice and service to all people that you care about um and so yeah the last few days has been been interesting um and it just is it's just crazy because like because of the situation that we're in I was already texting a number of players in both bubbles, in the NBA and

the WNBA, and just checking on them. And in those instances, it's like now you're dealing with a whole nother layer. And then you're trying to figure out, are you going to play? And so these things, like even yesterday after finishing our show, I get a call from my agent, Allison Gaylor, and she's like, Sinead, NECA's on air right now. I was like, what are you talking about? So I'm like done on air and then NECA's there. And there's a video of her talking to all of the WNBA players. And then she gets interviewed and the EC puts out a message today.

And I don't know how we date the pods. I'm sorry if I said it. It's going up tonight. No, it's good. Okay, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good. It just is like, it almost feels all surreal. Like, because in real time, like I was at home in Houston, Texas when George Floyd happened. And George Floyd is a Houston native. And so like, it took me weeks to get comfortable with

helping negotiate returning to play myself for my own spirit. And so now it's like, people are like, oh, what's going to happen? If it took me weeks? Then imagine having a day or two now in real time to like sort of process. And that has been like checking on the players and checking on my sister. And then you got to like check on yourself. You check on your neighbor. It just is a lot. What have you, uh, what have you heard from everybody about life there in the bubble after, I don't know how many weeks it's been, four or five? And, you know, after, I would say about two weeks, you're going back to the same hotel room with the same stuff in the corner and China side when you're in laundry or not, you're starting to lose it a little bit anyway. Like, what's that been like? I'm not going to lie.

I'm not going to lie. It started off and, you know, I think our bubble started off a little rocky. I think some people saw some videos, but we fixed those problems. And it started off where there was so much intention, like we want to go and play and play for a purpose. And then like I'm hitting some of my people and they're just like, what is bow life? Like it's not so easy anymore. It's really not. And I think when all these things happen, it's a combination of being in that bubble and being confined, which everyone is confined in their own homes right now, but you're being confined and you're competing against the guy next door. And then you're seeing that person in the elevator. And then you're dealing with watching another video that sort of creates

just so much emotional trauma for you. Like this is unprecedented. And so the bubble is there. And it's funny because when, when the bubble started, everyone's like, the only reason I'm going into this bubble is if I have a chance to win. We heard that with Damian Lillard. We heard that with my, my sister actually literally said that to me. She's like, we didn't do all this to just come in here and just play. Like we want to play and win, which is why I think I'm glad like everyone's coming back to the point of playing both the NBA and the WNBA. But it is a lot in the moment. And I know a lot of people see them as celebrities, as athletes, as influencers, but they're also human beings that are like processing things in real time. Their families are just now entering the bubbles and

that's something that they've needed to help feel better in this situation we're in in society. So at least I think they've made it through the hardest moment in the sense of that initial stage of shock, anger, grief. And now there's clarity, understanding, and now they're going to be like, okay, I'm going to use this platform for what we exactly intended to do. Like my talents give me this gift and hopefully that creates an opportunity to use this platform for a message. Well, plus you're out of your comfort zone too, right? I mean, that's one of the reasons when you're, when you're playing on the road, the road records aren't as good because of the travel, but also you just, you don't have your stuff. You're not in your bed. You know, like if you're

LeBron James, you don't have your $2 million worth of exercise equipment, all that, whatever, the cryogenic chamber and all the shit he has. There is a cryogenic chamber in the WNBA, actually, which is funny. Is there really? There is one. Is there like, you have to sign up? Like, it's like, can I have the 220 slot? I think that's what, no, it's a player, a player and a team. Shout out to the Seattle Storm, Sue Bird, Breon Stewart.

They always cut an edge. They're always thinking a little differently. So they brought in a chamber and that's a huge competitive advantage, right? Wow. So that means there must be like 10 cryogenic chambers in the NBA side. I'm sure LeBron probably has one in his suite. Pretty much. Probably in like the bathtub.

Probably there. Probably right there. You're right. But what would that be like just as an athlete to not have your stuff, not be in your place for that long? It's funny. It's kind of like being in college, right? But almost worse because you don't even have a college dorm.

Well, I would say it's better than college because in college, we didn't have money to buy stuff to ship into the bubble. So like, Oh, good point. So my sister, when she got in there, the first Amazon purchase she got was like, uh, they don't have a tub in her, in, in her room. And so it's like a mobile tub. It's like one of those Amazon, like, you know, I don't know. But it's like a blue circle and she's using it as like a bathtub to do her own ice bath. For old people. Yeah. Pretty much.

Pretty much. Like one of those commercials. And even today I sent Chick-fil-A to our team, the Los Angeles Sparks. It's like little things like that matter so much. And also sending my sister and her teammate, what is this? Hyper Ice. Have you ever used one of those things? Hyper Volt.

Hyper Volt. No, I don't know about that. What is it? It's like that tool that you use that vibrates. Oh, the self-massage? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So sending those, it's like Christmas Day for the players in the bubble because it's back to the basics. That's how we were training in quarantine. And you have the players in the bubble, because like, it's back to the basics. That's how we were training in quarantine. And like, you have limited supplies in the bubble. So, but they're happy, they're happy to still be able to play, but it's like, you're doing a lot of things to adapt. Do you feel like the WNBA has found its footing in a lot of ways these last couple of years because of how they've embraced, not just the social justice stuff, but all the different gender politics, all this stuff where they just seem like, I don't know what the year was, but all of a sudden they were at the forefront of different things. What was the change? What was the key moment? I think there have been a number of key moments, but like,

this is who consistently the WNBA has kind of been. Like people are just now realizing that Maya Moore a couple of years ago stepped away from the game to help advocate for a man that was wrongfully convicted and she freed him. He was in jail for 22 years. People are just now realizing that like the WNBA back in Minnesota with Philando Castile, where one of the few people to really use their postgame pressers and sports to speak the same way we're seeing Doc Rivers speak and Fred VanVleet speak and all those. So the WNBA has consistently been that.

And I think now we're at a point in society where we have new eyes. I hate this part, saying we have a 2020 vision. But we're now starting to appreciate things that before we sort of looked past or just didn't care to see or acknowledge. Now those things are brought to the forefront. And it's our league that, I mean, do you have one of these hoodies? What is it? The WNBA hoodie? Haven't you seen it?

Like the orange hoodie? No, but my daughter would wear that probably, I would say, 90% of the time. That's a good one. Yeah, I can hook her up. I mean, would you wear one, Bill? Would you? I don't wear hoodies like that. I'm an old man. What's wrong with me? Don't you get cold? Don't you get cold?

I guess we call them sweatshirts by generation. Come on, you're a Boston stan. I love Boston. I got cold all the time. I know you wear hoodies. I know you. I don't know. I hit this point at when I turned 50, I was like, no, no, actually, no, I got to say the pandemic now it's just been t-shirts and shorts. Cause it's like, who am I trying to impress? I don't see anybody. Amen to that. Like honest, I'm probably getting way too TMI, but yeah, I like this. Okay. I'm just going to lean in there. Like a bra doesn't feel the same anymore. Like after being braless for a couple of few months, I know this is too much, so I'm sorry, but this, it has been good for us to sort of realize that we don't have to be all dolled up all the time. Um, so I, I understand that energy. Yeah. My wife, we were doing something where I actually had a nice shirt

and a good pair of shorts on, and she kind of looked at me and she's like it's nice to see nice to see you dressed up for once and i'm like what am i like a bum like but then i'm thinking like yeah i guess i kind of am i just wear a t-shirt and shorts every day the first day i put on make no not put on makeup i had someone do my makeup for because we're simulcast on espn news yeah i had someone do it i was like i went in the mirror I was like, I went in the mirror. I was like, who is this? It was that long. It was nice not to have to impress anybody just day after day. One of the only pandemic benefits. One of the very few.

One of the very few. It's a short list. Give me a, give me like two WNBA subplots to watch for the actual basketball here as we, as we head down the home stretch. Okay. Two that I should care about. Okay. This is okay. Yeah.

Two that you should care about. I don't last year. Um, our Los Angeles Sparks team lost in very infamous fashion. We got swept. It was horrible. I read all the stories. There was like,

there was like crazy reporting and all kinds of stuff about that. Yeah. It was kind of ugly. Yeah. It got, it got bad. It got really bad. And I remember after this, because my sister was like, welcome to L.A. L.A. is Hollywood.

You stepped into this. Derek Fisher is our head coach. He's done a tremendous job this year. But imagine all those stories you read last year, and now the sparks are, I think, on a seven-game, eight-game win streak. Candice Parker is playing anvp which she is previously um and so just that whole story of going from zero last year where we got swept to now you know having dare and even like think about the same coach think about coach fisher though like leaving new york and then choosing to coach a WNBA team.

A lot of people probably don't even know he's the head coach of the Los Angeles Sparks. So I might be totally biased, but we're allowed to play a little favorites here. Following the Sparks would be really interesting. And then also, I think there's just so many cool stories. I mean, Las Vegas is a really cool team to watch as well. They're missing a number of key players, but Asia Wilson could potentially be the MVP of the league. Seattle is flying high, per usual.

So there are a lot of cool WNBA stories. And I know a lot of people, they hear WNBA, I think we're conditioned to think like, uh, right? And I think hopefully people will now give us a different opportunity because you're seeing us in different lights. Like we don't dunk as frequently as the guys. I mean, we do dunk guys like this does happen. We have Brittany Griner in our league. We have Lori Johnson. We have John Cole Jones, who's not currently playing, but like we have women that can do it. It just is our game is different, but we also are like the best women's basketball players in the world doing what we do. And so if people sort of just,

instead of being conditioned to be like, Oh, the W like maybe just take a second, take a beat and give it a try. And I think, wait, have you, when's the last time you've been to a game, Bill? Probably four years ago. I've taken my daughter a couple of times. I was an early detractor. I came around. It's an emotional story. Hey, I am so proud of you. Cause early on, I felt like it was being force fed to me like broccoli and the NBA was promoting it so hard. And I'm just like, well, I don't really, I don't want to watch this league. Like, sorry. And it was just in your face all the time. But once I had it, when my daughter was born in oh five, once she started playing sports, you know, I, I'm not that that's an excuse, but it

just, it did make me think about things differently and taking her to the game. But more importantly, like Taurasi was so fucking good. That was kind of the thing that won me over. And I always find myself drifting even now, like she's obviously the goat, but even at this advanced age, she can still bring it in a real way. And I don't even know what her NBA equivalent is. I guess it would be LeBron. It probably is. Cause what is it?

Year 16 for Taurasi. I think year 17 for LeBron, but like Bill, I'm here to tell you, you, I don't know what, I'm sorry. I don't know my,

my history in the sense of your comments on the WNBA, but you are right. It was being force fed and it was force fed in an inauthentic way. That's how I felt. And that was my big criticism. Let me decide on my own, whether I like this league, don't force me to watch it. And, you know, I, I look back and obviously we change a million things about things I've written in the past, things like that. But in that case, it was like, it was unfair. You know, it shouldn't have had, it shouldn't taken me having a daughter to re-examine like something. But you know, I remember the first time I took her to a Sparks game and we sat courtside, it was great and was just really impressed, especially by Taurasi. And that was, and then she came on Gretlin Basketball Hour, I think in 2015.

Yeah. And she was one of the best guests we had, like, for a couple years. Like, she was so authentic to her. Like, she didn't have, like, this media personality. And she could break down the NBA guys in a way where we, Jayla and I were like, what the hell is going on? Oh, yeah.

She's awesome. You know what's funny? Because what you were impressed by, you're like, oh wow, this is cool. A lot of people make judgments on the W, but they haven't seen it in person. And when you see it in person, you're like, oh, this is different. And I had this same situation where a couple of years, you know how like quarantine,

you don't know how long it was because the day was so long. I have no idea what month it is. Donovan Mitchell, I met him for the first time through Adidas. I did an event with him in New York because I think he's from Connecticut. And I hosted the event. And at that event, I was brought to a private room and they showed him his shoe. And I was like, so excited to be there.

That's where we first bonded and connected. He actually went to the New York Liberty game the next day. And we were playing the Sparks. We're playing the Liberty. And after the game, he hits me like's like dang I'm like what he's like yo I didn't know like you bang like that I was like what are you talking about like y'all go hard you go hard I'm like yeah like this is just what I do like I'm not I'm only like six well I guess I'm six I'm six two but they list me at six four um and you you know, seeing it in person, even for like NBA players that are experiencing it for the first time, that's why you hear them

talk a lot about it because they, they get it and they respect it. And so like, I guess, you know, I can understand why maybe you at first were, you know, thought like, yeah, this is being force fed in a way, but now it's different. Like Diana is going to be Diana and you're going to see it in her most authentic ways due to social media due to technology now like I'm going to be myself and my following might be bigger than you know what you might see a WNBA game otherwise like things are coming from our league now authentically and so I think people are resonating with that now and it wasn't like that before I always say like before they're trying to make us like Disney princesses and like you know we're here to save the world. I'm like, no,

we're just women out here just trying to do our thing and, um, and hoop. So that's been the cool stuff. Dave, it feels authentic now. And I don't think it felt that way the first 10 years. And even like, I just think they made some tactical mistakes, even like playing in NBA arenas where you have 1500 fans there and stuff like that. Like when you watch women's basketball in college, part of what's great is the crowds, you know? And I think they had, their crowds are as good as the men's college crowds. And they have not been able to replicate that partly because I don't know why they're playing in NBA arenas. Like I always felt like the LA Sparks should play it. Like,

you know, play two games at Pepperdine, something like that. Just pack it, make it like super exciting. Give it like a crazy amount of energy. Yeah. I just,

I just like the energy of it. I think that would really help versus like these big arenas. You know, I do love staples. I'm not gonna lie. I love playing at state Pepperdine. You know what that drive is? That drive is so long. I don't want to be on a bus. Well, give me another car or like USC,

whatever, like somewhere that's like, I don't know, 4,000, 5,000, something like that. But now in the bubble, it doesn't matter because there's no fans anywhere. I know. But see, the thing is, is I think even 4,000 are season ticket hold. I know that it may sound crazy compared to the guys, but like for us to average 6,000, $7,000, $8,000 per team, that's growth. And we want to still show opportunity for growth. Is it that high now? That's pretty good. That's kind of solid, right? That's kind of solid. Yeah, $8,000 is good.

Yeah, it's not bad. But, you know, it's funny because you mentioned Staples. And when I was at Staples, the first time first time I went there, um, was actually for the pack 10 tournament. So I was like a pack tenor my freshman year. And then those are weird. Those tournaments are weird. It's, it's just all kind of, the energy is just bizarre in those games, just games all day, different little tiny fan bases. I never got used to it. But you know, it's funny because we're talking about Staples and I was just thinking about like the arenas and the first time I was little tiny fan bases. I never got used to it. But you know, it's funny because we're talking about Staples and I was just thinking about like the arenas and the first time I was there.

And the first time I was there actually was interesting because my best memory is not even from like winning in Staples yet. Hopefully as a spark, you know, I went to, but when I was a freshman, that was my first time playing in Staples with the tournament. And so I go in there my freshman year and I'm, you know, like freshmen, we're just like corny and like awkward and all that type of stuff. So I go in there and I'm with my sister on my team. My sister's two years older than me. And I'm like, y'all, we win the tournament. I'm going to leave a note for Kobe Bryant. Cause the Lakers,

this is the home of the Lakers. And they're like, Oh yeah. Like Sinead, she's just doing the most. I was like, all right, like, come on now. And so we go go we win the tournament and when we're about to leave everyone reminds me like chanel you say you're gonna leave a note for kobe and so like this is that youthful like innocence and all that stuff so like everyone's waiting for me on the bus and so i rip up like you know like uh the nasty scouting reports like coaches are holding it they're sweating yeah they pour drinks on it and so i rip off like the bottom of the only paper i see which is like the corner of a scouting report. And I write this note, dear Kobe, thank you so much

for lending us your locker room. Like, I feel like I'm like a five-year-old even saying these things now. And, um, you know, we here at Stanford women's basketball, we are big fans. We support you, um, sincerely, you know, in Sanford know in san francisco basketball team uh our coach before we started that whole tournament said do you guys know which one's kobe's locker we couldn't figure it out but they're like it's the only one with the lock on it in there and so i went to that locker and i my hands were too big at the time to like well my hands are big i'm 60 so to open up the lock and so i found our little point guard who's smaller and has more dainty hands and like opened it and i slid this nasty little note in there and then we go back to the bay area at stanford

and a couple days later maybe two days later after after the end of practice um coach tar of the end of your hall of fame coach uh that coaches us at stanford paused and we thought we're all done with practice and then she goes and we're the huddle she's like Shanae and I'm like oh god what I do because like I'm that type of person that would always forget to fill out a paperwork that got us to like maybe made us have to run and all that type of stuff and she's like Shanae did you leave a note for Kobe after we won and I was like what and our whole team says you're like no no that's the one time I'm like, yes, hell yes, I did. And so everyone starts jumping up because they knew I did it. And so she's like Kobe, one of their athletic trainers, which I believe.

Why am I forgetting her name? She's a trainer that went to Stanford. He connected with her, who reached out to our team at Stanford to send on the message that congratulations on winning the tournament proud of everything you do strive for excellent excellence in everything that you do and I'm rooting for you guys moving forward in March Madness and that's what Kobe Bryant did for me um how old was I there's a lot of stories about him like that which I had no idea until after he died and it's it sucks that had to, for that to happen for like literally hundreds of stories like that to come out. And you know,

what's crazy. I didn't even remember that because my, my previous memory was like the immediate one. We saw Kobe at the U S women's national team. You know, like how they go on tour. The ship she believes for. Yeah.

Yeah. I, so we saw him there and we had head coach, Derek Fisher. I told you how our season ended kind of. So we were like trying to figure out how to get with Fish and all that stuff. And we thought we were just going in at the suite where he was with his daughters to take a photo op. And he stays and talks to us for an hour and a half.

Like, okay, tell Fish this. And this is how you can improve here. Like he was just the most warm guy. So I didn't even remember that Pac-10 story until a couple days after the tragedy of his passing I was like oh my gosh like Kobe didn't know who I was I was like a 19 year old I wasn't a number one pick in the WNBA yet like he had no reason to take a tiny piece of note and care about that and that's what he did and so like we talk about Staples like that's why I'm still so happy to play there because it's like he was a huge champion for our game.

And so having us there now, I feel like is just, is everything. I know that's a lot. That makes sense. Are you going to feel that way about the new Clippers Arena in Englewood or no? In five years? So I was like really blown away

because when I first came to LA, your girl has to get her hair done. And so, you know, I was looking for people to get my hair done. And one lady that has hooked me up is an Englewood. So I go and get my hair done in Englewood. I turn around the closet. What is that? And they're like, oh, that's the development for the Clippers. And I think, I think they deserve their, like, it's, I feel like it's weird splitting stadium time or splitting arena or court time. Don't you? I think it's,

it's the right move because they were always going to be like the, the foster child of, of the Staples center, basically like, Oh yeah, you can live here, but you you'll get as a Clipper season ticket holder. Like it's always the worst dates. It's the new year's Eve game. It's the Sunday one o'clock game during the NFL playoffs. Like that's, those are the dates they get. So now they can control their own destiny. And what would be cool is if there's LA versus LA,

same night, stuff like that, you know? And then that, Hey, I'm not it. I'm not a huge Staples center fan from a basketball going to the game standpoint, because I felt like it was built like 10 years too early. Oh, really? Like they just kind of figured out stadiums the last 10 years in a whole bunch of different ways. Cause the, the one in Boston has the same issues like that. The ones that were built in the nineties and early two thousands were like, Oh yeah, we'll do that. And now it's like, you would probably not do 90% of the things they did, but you definitely, you probably wouldn't have as many people.

Um, you would figure out much better ways for people to get in and out and things like that. Like the staples, like waiting for a half hour to get into the arena. It's ridiculous. TD garden. You, you, you think it's a little, oh, that's ready to go. It's like 25 years old. So my first media job was working on the NBA side with Celtics.com. Wow. Yeah, I know, right? So I was playing for the Connecticut Sun at the time. And so I was starting my, like, broadcasting stuff. And, like, I got to go on and sort of.

And it's cool because that's what I love about Boston, sports fans. Like, I played. And not many people many people like know of the WNBA, but once you start like being exposed to the sports culture, I will never forget that first time I left the first Celtics game. I worked, I had a guy like driving by on the street, like, Hey, I'm like, Whoa, y'all, y'all really roll different. But you're right. Like going through that side entrance, that media entrance, it's not probably the most like convenient.

And then plus it's like the, what do you call it? Is it the subway? Like the destination, like the Metro hub? Yeah, all that stuff's gone now. They blew it out. But it's just like, I don't know. We know so much more, especially like the kind of arena you would build now

and how you'd use wifi in it and And you know, all these subtle things. So I'm excited to have Balmer who just has more money than he knows what to do with trying to figure out, all right, now I'm going to try to build the best possible arena. I mean, who knows? We might not be going to basketball games for two years. God only knows. I know, but at least he has enough like money to like, Oh, this may not work out for the immediate future profit wise, but I'm still, I'm still fine. Can I ask you, um, a young female athlete question before we go? Absolutely. So my daughter who's now starting 10th grade, who plays competitive soccer, um, and has

not played now for six months, the season just abruptly stopped like it did for everybody else. But now she's in this position where it might not even come back for, I don't know, next spring. And she's going to lose like half of 10th grade, stuff like that. What would you do if you were like, think about 10th grade you. And I guess basketball is a little different because you can play basketball on your own.

And whereas soccer, you, you can't really, but like, what, what would you do? What would be like three things you would do to kind of keep your brain knowing what you know now to keep your brain like locked into it? Sure. So the first sport I actually played was soccer. And I don't know if I like actually played because I went out there and I was so much taller than everyone else. I would score like seven goals a game because it was like, we were young and the kids were like, oh, she's huge. So they'd like run out and I'd be like, yeah. And I was like, why am I, I'm so great. And I was like, oh, you know, I'm like a foot taller than everyone. It was like different. But, um, I think the thing that's, that's really challenging for a lot of people

that have to transition, like to even virtually virtual schooling and that type of stuff. Um, as, as an athlete, I think what has helped me, especially during quarantine or even not being able to like go to practice as much, it's just like going back to the basics, sort of the small fundamental drills, like using your wall in your backyard. Um, are you, are you that type of parent that lets your daughter kick the ball at the wall? I'm just excited when she's doing the basics. Cause sometimes kids, they don't, life is so easy for kids now. They don't want to just be like, Hey, I'm just going

to go outside and juggle for a half hour. It's not going to be that much fun. It's true. It's just kind of what you have to do. It's true. Cause like, I feel like I was born in 92. So I feel like I was like the last, you know, few years where you could go out, play outside. And that was like the ultimate thing. Pre-social media. Yes, precisely. Pre-social media. But for her, I think it's like back to the basics.

So like what I use the time was like to work on my balance and like my footwork and all those technical aspects that I normally wouldn't have time to do. Also, I know it's like soccer, but like, is she into yoga? Because there's so many different things that you could be doing that you'd be surprised actually help. So that's what she's been doing. She's been doing a lot of like, she's in crazy shape. But I think the thing that a lot of Pilates and ab shit and stuff like that.

But the thing that you just can't replicate is not being on a team. Yeah. And it had been in her life since she was like five and she'd been doing this year round year after year and just was used to competing and not being able to compete. I think has been really weird. It's, I don't think she realized what a big part of her life it was,

you know? I think everyone had that kind of realization. Cause like I've had two major injuries. I've had right knee fracture surgery, left Achilles. And like, I had that reality that like, oh snap, like I have to recover for a year and a half. And that happened to me twice in like three, four years. Now, like through the situations of us being confined at homes, now everyone's having that,

that, you know, reality. But I guess what I would tell her is like, I'm, I'm very careful in particular. So like if I'm going to go and work out with a couple of people, because I miss that environment, I'm going to pick four people that I know they're not doing too much in these streets. I'm saying, all right. Now that's what you're saying is so funny. Cause all the parents,

we have this, you have like, your kids have these two or three friends that are kind of vetted where you're like, okay, they can come in. And then there's some other ones. You're like, Nope, they're not coming in. Don't know where they've been. What are your standards of vetting? Actually it's, it's embarrassing, but like, I kind of want to know the parents because kids, kids are going to put themselves into some situations, but ultimately it's the

parents that are going to be the ones controlling what situations they're in. And if, so if we know the parents and we're friends with the parents, that makes me, you know, a little feel a little better about it. That's really funny. That's very like a parent's angle because me, you know, in quarantine, it's been funny, like being, like having time for myself, like I've been trying to do some things. And it's funny because when you, when you talk about parents and like even relationships, cause like I was figuring, navigating a space with a guy and my parents were like, Oh, like I don't care about what his parents are doing. I was like, mom, but like, what about the guy right here? But that's the tunnel lens that parents have.

It's like, no, he's going to turn into his parents. He's going to act like his parents. So I think that's just kind of funny. Parents are incredibly judgmental. That's what we do. We just judge stuff constantly. We judge people. We judge the impact that might have on our kid. That's why we're here. If we judge our own kids, constantly give them tips they don't want, advice that they never asked for. That's what we do. But yeah, it's been weird for me as a parent not going to the games. I didn't realize how big of a part of,

yeah, not just going to like pro sporting events, but just going to like youth sports and watching my kids play. And it's just like gone. You know, I didn't even think about that because we always think about the other way around. Like the athletes and the players being our kids, being myself, our peers,

you, your job is to talk about such. But now it's sort of like you, how do you feel not having this, like this void? Well, cause I only have so many years left, right? It's the same thing where like when your kid goes to college and you're just painfully aware, like, all right. And three years from now, she's going away.

I don't know where she's going. She's going to go somewhere. But, um, you know, you, you just start thinking about, I think around ninth grade,

you just start thinking about like only so many years left of this, only so many days of this. And then she started dating a guy and it's like, oh man, it's just, it goes so fucking fast. Anyway, I'm totally babbling.

But no, but you know what's good about it? Because by the time she goes to college, even though that's sad for you, that's when we start having an appreciation for our parents. So. Oh,

that'd be great. You look forward to that. I felt like she should have appreciated all the driving, at least by now. Nope. Nope. We don't.

Sorry. Yeah. No. As long as she has her phone and a driver, at least by now. Nope. Nope. We don't. Sorry. Yeah. As long as she has her phone and a driver, she's freaking happy. And food. And food. And food. And food after the games. All right.

This was fun. Thanks for updating us on everything. It was good to see you. You were everything as advertised from Jalen and Jacoby, my guys. By the way, we played at Staples a few times, the three of us. I need to go into the archives. What's your game like? Well, I was effectively washed up at that point, but my game evolved over the years. Here's the thing about Jalen though, and this is Jalen's in much better shape. He met Molly,

and of course he got in kick-ass shape. That's sometimes how it goes. Got it right, huh? But Jalen, when we were playing with him, you just forget. He's like a 6'8 1⁄2 guy who has a good handle, who whenever he wants can score. And he's playing against these dudes who are like these frustrated high school athletes and college athletes who are like, oh, it's my one chance to go against Jalen.

And anytime he wanted, he could just make a three or do his rotating spin move thing. And then all of a sudden he's at the rim. And it was just like, oh yeah, you made 18 million a year doing this once upon a time. This makes sense that you're still good at this. Look, it's more impressive that you're on the court with him than he's on the court with you.

So that's a win. You've got a standard there that's nice. And also, by the way, you'd be happy to know that every day I'm at ESPN, at least pre pandemic, when I go to New York and Jacoby would update me on his, his pickup games. And I'm still working to get him to shoot the ball. He still has anxiety shooting. He came in so proud, like going, I think like had 10 points, which he, he prides himself as a screener, you know, and a rebounder. So I'm going to stay on it so that he will be better next time. You guys, you know, Jacoby, that was my one last great run with him for two years at USC. That was my guy. We had something really special. You have

people in your life where you're just like, I had something really special pickup wise with that person. Um, he had a, I, he knew where to go and what to do. Super competitive. The only thing with Jacoby is like, if he got an elbow in the face or something, he saw red for like a split second. And it was like our test melee potential, but then he would calm down. But for a split second, his eyes would just go vacant. When people's eyes go vacant, you're like, oh my God, everyone's going to die. But then it would go away.

But it would be like a split second. The lesson is don't elbow Jacoby in the face. I didn't know that. Wait, you lost him because he's a screener, so he was doing everything for you so that you could shoot and score. The problem with Jacoby is when he would deviate from what his, the three great things he was good at when he's like, I'm

going to lead the, I'm going to throw a no look on this fast break. It's like, no, going to lead that. I'm going to throw a no look on this fast break. It's like, no Jacoby. No, no, Jacoby. Jacoby was really good and really fun to play with. I keep telling him though,

he's going to be washed up now. Cause now he's, you know, this is when you hit your forties, you lose something every year. You have a long way to go for your bet. When you hit your forties, every year you lose one thing with basketball.

And then nothing is left but your shot by age 45. That's how it goes. As long as you have your shot, you're good though, right? That's the thing. And so what I would learn is I just knew what I could do. I knew all the spots I could shoot from. And that's just kind of, you become Kyle Korver. You know, you're like,

I know I can do these three things still. And don't ask me to do anything else. I'm out. Yeah. Not, not many Vince Carters out there at plus 40, but more Kyle Korvers. That is true. But the Vince Carter stuff, I thought that was an amazing story the last two years. Like, I actually feel like he could have been a ninth man for a decent team.

Yes, I agree. Didn't he, like, there was this one crazy play where, like, he still dunked the same way he dunked, like, his second year in the league. I was just like, how is this possible? Some people are just, like, physically different. Like, for him to be able to play, like, for what LeBron is doing now with all the miles that dude has, and there's, like, And there's subtle signs of slippage. But Carl Malone was another one.

Some dudes are just meant to do this. I think Giannis is like that too. I don't see any scenario where Giannis starts to decay as a basketball player. The guy's a freaking freak. And I think it's because he's built a little bit more sustainably. Less weight, leaner muscle,

and that's why we're seeing him blossom. And I think it's because he's built a little bit more sustainably. Less weight, leaner muscle, and just like, that's why we're seeing him blossom. Going from MIP to MVP to MVP. I voted firm for everything. I didn't understand the LeBron argument. How are you enjoying your show before we go? That's another topic for another day. Yeah.

How are you enjoying your show? Oh, I love it. You know, I love radio, radio. Cause for so long I was like NBA analysts, women's basketball analyst, but now I get to be Chanae and just have a good time and vibe with Golik Jr. Golik is awesome. His family is awesome. His dad is amazing and has taught us so much. So I'm liking it, but like, you're, you're great at this. Like, and I've always followed you. That was nice.

But like talking for an extended period of time is work. And that's what I'm just realizing. The hard part is doing it for the ESPN radio with the breaks. Because we can just go and we're hitting a good spot. And you're in the middle of your story about Kobe at the Staples Center. And then it's like, hold on, hold on, hold that thought. We, we're going to talk about subway, blah, blah, blah. And then

throw it. And then five minutes later you come back and you're like, all right, now I got to finish that story that has no momentum. Now, this is why you're the podfather. You like read my mind because today I was like talking and it was 10 seconds left before the show ended. And I was like, ah, and I started screaming. I was like, oh, missed it. Missed the dismount. TV was even crazier, like doing countdown and shows like that where they're just like 20 seconds left and you just feel like there's like a bomb is going to go off or something. 10 seconds, five. And you're like wrapping up some point about the Lakers.

And they're talking in your ear. You're mentally listening while you're also trying to stay coherent on your argument. It's, it's way harder than people realize. I actually got used to it, but the first, cause they just threw me a countdown. I'd been on PTI like 15 times and we're doing this thing and somebody's in your ear and they're like, Hey man, we got an audible to the next highlights. And you're just like, wait, where? Oh, wait, no, I'm on TV. I got to look straight.

Right, just keep up. Yeah, it's good. You pick up tricks. Well, good luck with it. It was great to have you on. It was nice to finally meet you virtually. Yes, and nice to meet the Podfathers. So definitely, like if you ever need me, I'm here.

I got you. Especially when fans come back, I'll make sure you have a courtside front row seat to the Sparks. All right, you shot down my Pepperdine idea, but I think you won that argument. I didn't realize you had that many season ticket holders. We do, but also my little sisters went to Pepperdine, so I'm not opposed because the views there, I'm not mad. I just like the gym. It's just fun to go there and see the, it's just like, feels like different. I thought Loyola Marymount gym's good too. I like that one. LMU is nice. LMU is nice. We keep waiting for them to come back.

All right. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. Thank you so much. Nice to talk to you. Stay safe. You too. All right.

Thanks to DeRay, Chris, and Sinead. Thanks to SimpliSafe. They've got everything you need to protect your home with none of the drawbacks of traditional home security. Set it up yourself in under an hour. No technician required. No contract. No push to sales guys.

No hidden fees. No fine print. All of it starts at $50 a month. Head to simply safe.com slash BS, get a free HD camera. Once again, simply safe with two S simply safe.com slash BS back on Sunday night. Have a good weekend. Stay safe. I don't have