The Bill Simmons Podcast - The NBA Trade Value List (Summer Edition) With Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: July 11, 2022

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo for their final Sunday night podcast together to reveal Bill's NBA trade value list. They run through Bill's top 64 NBA players as well as some honorable mentions (4:01), before discussing Ryen's experience at NBA Summer League in Las Vegas (1:32:56). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Ryen Russillo Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I still love doing this podcast. I'm excited for this one. Ryan Rossello is coming on our last Sunday with him until I'm sure he'll pop on a couple of times during the NFL NBA season. But this is our last Sunday with Rosillo. And we have a very special treat for you. It is a 2022 trade value list that I made that I've been working on for really the entire playoffs and then the off season. It's a gimmick that I used to do. I think it was 2000 on my old website, Digital City Boston. I was trying to figure out a gimmick that I could do that I could rank players, but do it a little more creatively than just ranking the players. And I thought about them as trade assets.

One thing led to another. All of a sudden I'm making tiers. I have parameters. And it was something from 2000, I think through 2015, I must've written every year. Cause I remember at one point at Grantland, we just, we posted all of them. And along with the NBA draft diary was one of my favorite pieces to write. I would spend a couple of weeks on it. Not just coming up with the list, but actually like writing out the blurbs, trying to figure it out, figuring out the salaries. It was a lot harder during the ESPN days

just to even find the salaries, find accurate salaries. Now it's a lot easier. Now we have SpotTrack. Now we have so much more intelligence. I think one specific thing has changed in 2022 that affected the trade value list. And we'll talk about it with Roussel in a second.

But it was fun to bring this back to life. This is a workshop list. We're going to try to finalize it as we do the podcast, but I have my tentative list that I'm bringing into the podcast and then Rasella and I are going to workshop it. It is all next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right. Ryan Masilla is here for the last time. He is in Las Vegas for Summer League. We're going to talk about it at the end of this podcast.

We're going to do a little Summer League. We'll talk about your trip, the whole thing. We'll save that as dessert. It's time. It's Trade Value List 2022. I sent you my list a few hours ago, so you would have it. We're going to react. We're going to argue about some stuff. And a couple caveats. One, this is not a list of players. Salaries have to matter

at least a little bit. And it's always the question of, would I rather pay Scotty Barnes $5 million or Bradley Beal $50 million? That's a huge piece of it. You got to think about years left on the contract. You have to think about how realistic is it that either one team would trade for a guy or that a team would want to give up a guy. And then it all comes down to the premise of Priscilla's a GM of one team. I'm a GM of another team. And I call him for a player and offer a one V one trade. Who says no faster? Who hangs up faster? What's that whole process? So Rosillo, I think the biggest thing that's changed in 2022

that I did not have to deal with in 2000 when I first created this whole gimmick is the concept of, can I convince a player to come here and will he be happy? You cannot do this in a vacuum anymore. Like we can't do, if it's like Kevin Durant or I don't know, uh,

Paul, Pascal, Pascal, see Occam straight up. Oh, right. And if it's, if I have to talk Kevin Durant into being happy in Toronto,

that is now a factor in this deal because of a dynamic you and I have talked about constantly, which is it's not just the contract. It's whether the player is happy in the situation and in the contract. So the reality is the trade value was just more fun 20 years ago. Yeah. Cause it's still, you know,

you go through the list and you start thinking like, do I have to worry about the feelings in a guy in the 40s? And that's where I think this is all going, by the way. Yeah. Oh, you think there's going to be some people getting mad that their wrecking was off? Yeah, seriously. There'll be like the second guy off the bench, the seventh guy in the rotation. He's like, I just don't think I can win with these guys.

It's going to happen. And I kind of can't wait. Well, let's get into it. Let me start by just saying something though because I did spend some time looking at it. If you publish this, it would be met with immediate, like whenever somebody does something like this,

the first reaction is like, oh, that's stupid. Oh, this is wrong. This is terrible. Because then I started like doing it based on how you broke it up. And it's a really, really hard thing to do that's also very easy to rip apart while anyone

else that would provide theirs would be just as easy to rip apart. Is that your way of saying you didn't like the list? No, I did like the list. I liked it a lot. I obviously have disagreements, but when you're sitting there going, let me come up with 60 plus guys in five or six different tiers, there's nothing like...

It's like when ESPN does their top 75, most of it makes a lot of sense. And then there's a couple where you're like, what the hell is wrong with you guys? And then everybody will just be like, oh, that list is stupid. Well, a couple were wrong. Well, before we get into it, I just want to say how much talent there is right now. Because I remember, especially in the mid-2000s, just trying to get to 40 was a chore. Like a legitimate chore. We're like, oh my God, let's put Nazi 64 in case the ringer gets super bored this summer and wants to have an actual bracket and do a one through 64 bracket and just pit people against each other

and have people vote and see how that goes. So we did 64. We also have a pretty healthy honorable mention of like 17 or 18 guys. I'm just going to go through quickly. You stop me if you get excited about any of these names. Honorable mention. Kyle Kuzma. I like his contract. $13 million a year. Solid starter. Not good enough for the trade value. Jaden McDaniels, who we found out apparently had an incredible amount of value. It's a bit of soda. Since they were touting that they didn't have to throw him

into the Gobert trade, they were all excited about that didn't have to throw him into the Gobert trade. They were all excited about that. So he's, I'm just putting him on there for that. Caruso. I just, Alex Caruso, I like the contract. What is it like 9 million a year? I know that guy can play in the playoffs. You have any problem with him?

Honorable mention? No, not at all. I thought he was a really important part of, you know, the Bulls are a separate topic altogether, but they just, it's like you want guys like that on your basketball team. Yep. Vucevic was honorable mention for me. He's in the last year of his contract, which I think has to play in at least a little bit when you think of value. I also, I didn't, I thought he was good, not great. He's 25 million a year.

I thought they kind of overpaid looking back at what they gave Orlando and that thing. And I just, it's not that excited about it, putting him in the 64 over some of these other guys. Were you surprised that he didn't make it?

No, not at all. Okay, good. Garrett Trent Jr., 3 and D guy, about $16 million a year. If he was like at about eight, I'd be more excited about that one. John Collins,

who we know should be honorable mention because they tried to trade him for two months and couldn't figure out how to do it. Two months. Seven. You might break the record for under your breath one-liners during this, by the way. You already got two.

CJ McCollum, who I don't say if he was making like 17, 18 million a year, I think would be on the list. But I think the salary makes it just a little harder to deal with him, as we saw with the Portland New Orleans trade in February. First rookie, Ben Mathurin. We could put rookies on the list now. He's the highest drafted rookie that did not actually make the top 64. We'll see. By January, he might be 40.

De'Aaron Fox is on here. I don't love his contract. I would not have even had him honorable mention two months ago, but I thought both you and I were impressed with him with the Sabonis trade, how he looked after that. So I think he's still intriguing as an asset. Do you agree or disagree? Yeah. I even think this is a little harsh for him because you still feel like you have to have an

open mind. I mean, two years ago, he would have been in your 64 without question. So he gets the contract that those guys get, best player, high pick. So I'm not the biggest fan you know you and i would talk throughout all those late game situations with him and i think maybe the overall stat i don't remember like if it's one of those things where it's like man the overall stats ended up not looking as bad as some of the visuals but it just felt like i'm gonna force this i'm gonna do it on my own he just has to break that habit like if you can break that habit, he's still a really dynamic player. So this feels low, but it also feels like this is the lowest his approval rating's probably been since he's been in the league.

I'm going to bold him in case there's anyone in the 64 that you talk me out of. Wendell Carter, we really like because of the contract. I think he's like $14 million. Steve Cerruti, who our beloved friend and producer, I don't think we'd trade Wendell Carter

for DeAndre Ayton straight up if Ayton's going to make $30 million a year but I also don't know if that's rational we'll get to Ayton in a second but anyway he's honorable mention so is Rob Williams who has a fantastic contract I think you could make a case he should be in the 64 but the injury history I think

is he just has to prove he can play for 8 straight I think you could make a case he should be in the 64, but the injury history, I think, is... He just has to prove he can play for eight straight months, I think. But I was surprised I left him off. I couldn't make the case for it. I didn't know if I was being too much of a homer. What do you think? No, the injury part probably puts him out of it because this is a constant, you know?

I mean, the reason he got the contract he did is because they were always worried about his injuries. probably puts him out of it because you know we this is this is a constant you know i mean the reason he got the contract he did is because they were always worried about his injuries and you know after seeing a couple of the games live as well i'm like is he just a guy that looks hurt all the time or has he just been struggling this entire playoffs i think more people tell you it was the latter um there were so many different times it was like oh he might be done he might be done so for that to get figured out, even with a really nice contract, it would feel aggressive to say

there's 390 players behind him. Yeah. Yeah, he's like that. He is that guy who always seems like he's a little bit injured when you're at the games. It's like how I'm sure you have the friend who always seems a little drunk

even though you're not drinking. Is this guy drinking before? What happened with this guy? No, no. He's just always like that. Seth Curry made honorable mention. Now he's on the last year of his deal. His deal is only 8 million bucks. I think if I had him for like three for 24, I would have put him on because I really value what he does. And I think if you put him, we saw what he did. I thought he was the best, other than Jimmy Butler, I thought the best kind of wingman for Embiid that we've seen during Embiid's entire career offensively. And that last year of his contract, I couldn't do it. Simons is another one that I think would have made it, but he just got this $100 million four-year deal that I know you have some feelings on? Yeah. I felt like this was a very early Anthony Simon's podcast, very early on that,

where I was telling you, I was talking to guys up there at the time that were like, wait until you see it, wait until you see it. And then you're kind of watching it going, wow, there is really something here. What a nice pick. And then it's $100 million. And I, whenever we do that, it was like, oh, I would have liked him better at 78. Yeah. It's like, well, that's not the way it works. It's usually about a 20% tax beyond what you think would be the right number. I still think we have the cap spike hangover of looking at some guys being like, oh, I think I'd like him at 12. Well, if you're any good, you don't make 12. You make more. You just make more. So he lit it up last year the shooting was terrific but that was a team that was trying to lose every game and you needed internet service when you watch trailblazers games like you needed to go wait who the fuck is out there yeah and so i'm always a little afraid like there's a lot of dudes like davion mitchell might be terrific but there's a lot of arguments made for players in those ends of season situations where you'll be like, well, did you see what this guy did here?

Or did you see this assist ratio? Or did you see all these different things? It's like, yeah, but what was the team trying to do? So he shot the hell out of it. I really like him, but with a healthy Portland all the way back, maybe they just look at him as a younger CJ and he stays healthy and we're fine. And we're actually paying him less than McCollum's 31 million plus next couple of years. So I get it. It just felt a little on the pricey side. That's a contract that is a make or break contract in a lot of ways for teams. If they can hit either the future superstar, but you're getting them at a 30% discount

or going the other way, the guy that you think might be a star and you're getting him at a 30% discount or going the other way, the guy that you think might be a star and you're getting a deal at 25 million a year. And then it turns out he's like a $10 million player. Uh, we see mistakes and wins in that. I think like that 17 to 25 range. Yeah. I mean, he was, he was 42, 43% from three last year. And then he basically doubled the output and still was over 40% from three. I like him. If you told me yes or no on that contract, I'd probably say yes

because I think it would have been risky for them to bring it to the next year. And then what if he's like a $30 million guy next year? So I'm okay with it. Dylan Brooks, classic honorable mention guy. He may have replaced, I think this is the year he replaced CJ McCollum as the guy who's going to be in the most trade rumors. I just think he'll just get thrown in there. I think people are going to be making up a lot of three for one trades with Memphis and he'll always be leading those. I value what

he does and I like what he does. Lou Dort, same thing. I would have had Lou Dort on the 64 before the new contract, but now I think he's now fairly priced, 5 for 87. Good 3 and D guy. And then the last two, Draymond, I'm just putting on there out of respect. I think he means more to Golden State than any other team.

The last two games he played in the finals were great. He's in a contract year, so I would actually be more bullish on him this year. The age and the shooting numbers are, I think, the two obvious red flags. And then Kaminga was my toughest cut. I just couldn't totally get there over the 64 guys that I had in there.

Would you have put him on there? No, I went through the list. I think that's still a huge benefit for the doubt thing for Kaminga. And, you know, maybe would I name 64 guys that I would trade before him, which is really the exercise that we're going through here.

Maybe that's why he ends up there. But, you know, there's also a version of events here where maybe it just doesn't clip. Right? Are you still open to that possibility? The Summer League game two days ago, people were pretty alarmed. You're going to see them. We're taping this right now. It's

a little past one. You're seeing them in person a little later. You're really going to see Wiseman. I'm going to see Wiseman. You'll talk about it on your podcast. Kaminga, I love him. I couldn't believe he couldn't make the list, but I just couldn't justify it because we don't know where we're getting with that.

It might just be this awesome athlete who never puts it together. I think he's worth more to the Warriors than anybody else because they've seen it in practice every day. So whatever. All right, so that's that. So wait, so like, okay,

but just to like to do the exercise here, you know what? I should keep letting you go through the groups. Yeah, yeah, we'll hold them. Right, right. So the two we're going to... Put a bold on Draymond for me and Kaminga, actually. Two Warriors here. Okay. So we're going to bold

those two. We'll bold De'Aaron Fox. Yeah, good. And then before we get to the 64, we've made history. We've had three players disqualified from the list. There's a dishonorable mention. I'm just refusing to put them on. Kyrie Irving, Ben Simmons, and James Harden, you're not allowed to be on the list there's a dishonorable mention i'm just refusing to put them on kairi irving ben simmons and james harden you're not allowed to be in the list i have i have dq'd you

you're out done i all right i'll tell a story um because i'm you know i'm i'm in it every every single nba person's running around here it's was actually kind of, kind of funny stories. I was headed back up to my room. I grabbed a dinner with a Kansas Jayhawk legend, Eric Chenoweth. And I was like, all right, you know, I'm calling it.

And a couple of guys came running over from the craps table to say hello. And they're pretty excited. Big magic fans flew in just to watch Paolo. So shout out to those guys. Uh, and as I was talking to them they were really nice about it they were like hey we didn't want to bug you or whatever and i was like no it's cool man thanks a lot let's talk to little paulo and then will hardy walked by and i thought maybe

you know like maybe with the boston thing and i was like hey man congratulations he had no fucking clue who i was zero glace san antonio guy, right? Right. It wasn't like he was in Boston 10 years. But I was just saying, hey, congrats. And it kept it moving. Whatever whole deal was really nice, could have been nicer. But then the guys looked at me and I was like, see? He had no idea who I was and I had no idea who you guys were. And it's cool. We can all say hello to each other. But the reason the story is funny is that Ben Simmons was hanging out, kind of mingling around, whatever. And I was with a couple other people

and we were watching people stop to get their picture with Ben Simmons. And one of the guys in the crew goes, can you imagine wanting your picture with him right now? Which is super harsh and not the way pictures work with celebs. But to have him on the Disarble Mention when I saw that email and I thought of one of my buddies from last night going,

like, why did you even do that? And I'm like, well, because that's what people do, man. I was like, it's what people do. They see somebody. And that's why this is such an amazing experience for any NBA junkie. If you just keep milling around downstairs, you're going to see everyone in the league. Yeah.

Well, those three are out. I think Harden has a chance to play off it. He's going to be on a shorter, it looks like a shorter money deal. I don't know how they work that out. It could lead to one of the big scandals the league's ever had, trying to figure out how he just gave up $50 million.

Just so everybody knows, he opted out of 47.4, I think, and then signed two years for 64. Yeah. And it's a player option in the second. So now I am all over the place with this one. Can we do a minute or two on this? Let's do it.

And then we'll take a break and we'll get to the list. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I'm taking you derailing. No, this is why we're doing it. You're not derailing anything. But from a negotiating standpoint,

did Daryl and the front office and ownership go to Harden and his reps and say, hey, you're not taking cap space from anyone else. You know you're not. You don't want to play in Detroit. You don't want to play in San Antonio. You're like, you know, let's run through it. Orlando had to move some things around. So we know you don't want to go anywhere.

All right. Did we know you have no, we, we know you have nowhere to go. Yeah. Right. Okay. Pot yard. Same thing, which is both things. Or is there such trust?

Is there such trust with Daryl and ownership that they went take the $15 million haircut, because that's what it is now, and then play for 32. They're about $4 million or so. I don't know what the final numbers will end up being. Below the hard cap, which was a huge problem because if he'd opted in, then they weren't going to be able to sign all these other guys. So we make the team better. All of these things seem really

selfless, but I can't help get past does it mean he's just going to opt out next year? And then he knows he's got a new extension where his math is like, I have the new longer extension that adds on a year that I may not have gotten a number as opposed to just waiting a year and making 32 this. I'm not going to just make up 15. I'm going to make up even more because whenever I was a free agent on a new extension, whatever that new year would have been, it would have been close to what I'm going to get on a Philly extension for next summer. I have no idea. I have no answers. I have no insight.

I'm just wondering out loud. We've only seen an NBA in recent history with Nowitzki in Dallas, where he played there his whole career and there was an incredible amount of trust with him and Cuban. And along with me making jokes about how Cuban was buying his documentary for $45 million and all those kind of fun jokes. Did Cuban like those jokes? Probably not. The Patriots did it with Brady.

Brady would take less than what he was worth. Forever. And then eventually got pissed off about it. This doesn't make a lot of sense. Harden has been on the team for five months. I know he has a good relationship with Ruben and with Daryl. It's a pretty big sacrifice. But Ruben's technically out now anyway, right?

Yeah, but if you read the articles, it was him and Daryl and two other people negotiating the extension. So I don't know what to believe. I guess we'll find out more. He might be able to play himself off the list. If it's one year, $32 million,

and he looks awesome next year, there's a chance I do this same list on the All-Star break and he's like 28. You know, Simmons and Kyrie have no chance

to make the list again. So there you go. They've been disqualified. It's like in victory, the ref is, the goal has been disallowed. These three players have been disallowed. We're going to take a break and then we're going to do the top 64.

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Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention,

and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you can still walk to grow a mustache, you can still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. All right, top 64. So we're going backwards. We're going from 64 to one to build at least a little suspense. I can't wait. There are 12 groups. This is group L. Quality starters, a little expensive is the name of this group. Going from 64 to 59. Jared Allen, Fred Van Vliet, DeMar DeRozan, DeMontis Sabonis. Anybody in that list seem like they're being shorted a little bit and not respected enough. It feels a little disrespectful for DeAndre Ayton.

Okay, so I agree. So even six weeks ago, I had him. How about one year ago? Well, six, seven weeks ago, I had him... How about one year ago? Well, six, seven weeks ago, I had him in Group J, which we'll get to in a second. So he would have been in the 40s. J Group. I guess the thing I couldn't get past is

how can you have trade value if it doesn't seem like anybody wants you? I mean, he's sitting there for anybody to either clear out cap space for or try to sign and trade whatever. It is now July 10th. And I haven't heard a single DeAndre Ayton story. Even like Indiana doesn't want him.

Supposedly, Indiana was trying to trade Sabonis for him in February. And even Indiana is like, no, we're good. So what is going on with this? That's why I put him in the 60s for now. I didn't know what else to do. It's like, I think Jared Allen probably has more trade value than him. So again, it's Ananobi,

Aiton, Allen, Van Vliet, DeRozan, Sabonis. I thought you would have an issue with DeRozan being at 60, but two years left,

you know, he's been in the league for a long time now and you could argue last year was probably his last kind of peak. And he won't be as good this year as last year. He peaked as late as a player.

Like he's one of the, I think he was like the fourth oldest player in NBA history to have that kind of season, to have had a peak season that late. I don't know how, that was like in the middle of the season. I saw that number and he still was really good. So this is where I think people have a hard time with these lists. They'll be like, oh, this is crazy. Like as we keep moving up in the 50s and 40s, you're going to say, these guys aren't better than DeRozan. And we'd agree with you. We'd agree with you. That's not the point of the exercise. The point is trade value and worth and contract and years of service and upside versus have you reached your upside? Are you a year past reaching your

upside three years? You have to factor all that in. In a vacuum, of course, DeRozan is not the 60th best player in the league. And you're also... Sorry, go ahead. Well, he's been traded twice. Most recently, a year ago for a trade that, looking back, you wouldn't have exactly called that

an awesome haul that San Antonio got to help the sign-and-trade, right? Yeah, sign-and-trades, though, usually a little bit different. And the only reason he was traded the first time with Toronto is because he had a chance at a peak Kawhi. So I don't know if I would like where Westbrook eventually it's going to be like, wait, this guy's been on five teams in his second half of his prime. Like, what does that, what does that tell you? I don't think the same applies to DeRozan because I think there's some different circumstances there. All right. So I'm going to bold DeRozan because if we go through this and we decide, well, wait a second, he should be higher than that. Let's rethink that. Let's bold him. We'll

keep them tentatively at 60, but we'll bold him. Go to the next group. This is the upside gang, group K going from 58 to 52. 58, Keegan Murray, Tyrese Halliburton, Tyrese Maxey, double Tyrese, RJ Barrett, Jaron Jackson, Franz Wagner, and Josh Giddey. So now go back to DeRozan. If the Bulls offered DeRozan for any of those guys, I'm saying that the team that has those guys would be like, no, actually, we're good.

So like R.J. Barrett's a great one. If the Bulls offered DeRozan to the Knicks for R.J. Barrett, I think the Knicks say no faster than the Bulls would say no, right? Which is the point of this exercise. So there you go. The one I had the hardest in this, again, the list is Keegan Murray, Hal Burton, Maxie, Barrett,

Jaron Jackson, Franz Wagner, Josh Giddey. The one I had the hardest with was Jaron Jackson. You could have told me 10 spots earlier or 10 spots later for him. I mean, he's just had another injury. We know he's out till at least December. He's making, I think, 25, 26 million a year. And he's young. I think he's incredibly impactful when he's making I think 25-26 million a year and he's young

I think he's incredibly impactful when he's out there I think I voted for him first team all defense and you could argue man that guy should actually be in the high 30s or that guy should be low 40s or you could argue he can't stay in the court moving to the 60s I don't really know the answer so I'm putting him at 54 what are your Jaron Jackson thoughts? He was definitely one of my notes when I was running through it,

looking at the bold part of it. Because, you know, unfortunately, I think I keep sneaking ahead to some of the other stuff. But when you look at Jaron Jackson's deal, he's going to be 27, 25. They actually reversed it on the scale for this one. They started him higher at like 29. So at 26 years old, he's down to 23 million.

It felt really low. It felt really low for him. I know in the next group, I don't know if I can do it this way. I don't know if I'm breaking the rules. When we get to the next group, we'll talk about it. Honestly, Giddy feels low at 52

just because I love watching that guy play so much. But in a vacuum, you're like, oh, this is too low for him. But I feel like everyone I'm looking at here, I'm only looking up. Where I guess maybe the only one would be, yeah, let me wait. I'm just going to keep holding out here.

So keep going. Well, Cerruti's probably furious. Wagner didn't crack the top 50. I mean, he's I think for the Magic fans, Wagner's probably top 20. Giddy, I agree on Giddy. And I had him bolted even

before you told me to bolt him because even watching him in Summer League the last couple games, I'm like, God, this guy. I really like this guy. You could argue, you know, Lomelo's coming up a few spots later. You could argue Giddy versus Lomelo. Who would you rather have for the next seven years? Who would you rather have for the next seven years, Giddy or Lomelo?

I got to go Lomelo only because, I mean, there's a little part of me that wants to say Giddy really bad here, but I've seen Lomelo do more already. Yeah, I think that there's a little part of me that wants to say Giddy really bad here, but I've seen LaMelo do more already. Yeah, I think that's the right answer. But you have to think about it for a split second, which is why Giddy is so interesting. Okay. Group J.

Calling this group the Ginobili's. Parentheses. Playoff guys. This goes from 51 to 44. These are all guys that we know you want on your side in the playoff series. So 51, Tyler Hero, Jordan Poole, 50,

Desmond Bain, Marcus Smart, my guy Herb Jones, Jalen Brunson, Andrew Wiggins, improbable top 50 appearance by Andrew Wiggins, and Mikael Bridges. So Hero, Poole, Bain, Smart, Jones, Brunson, Wiggins. Improbable. Top 50 appearance by Andrew Wiggins and Mikael Bridges. So, Hero Pool, Bane, Smart, Jones, Brunson,

Wiggins, Bridges. I'll start here. Is that too high for Herb Jones? Yes. Okay. There's no way if I were a GM and I were offering you Herb Jones for Josh Giddey, you would say yes. Okay. So, you would move Herb Jones to the upside again?

I just wouldn't have him ahead of Josh Giddey Here's another one for you Okay Here's another one for you So maybe I move Herb Jones I think you're right I wanted to shoot high with Herb And see your reaction

But maybe I'll move him to 54 Right after Franz Wagner So it'll go 52 Giddey, 53 Wagner Maybe I'll move him to 54 right after Franz Wagner. So it'll go 52 Giddy, 53 Wagner, 54 Herb Jones. Okay. What was your next point? Would you say no if RJ Barrett was offered to you and you had Herb Jones? I love Herb Jones. I know, I can tell.

Who do I have a better chance if I'm in a playoff series with Herb Jones or R.J. Barrett? I need to win four straight rounds. I need an elite perimeter defensive guy who can hit threes. And you could argue that he's probably the best young version of that in the entire league.

Okay, but there's a problem. There's a problem. That means you already have other things in place. And the hope would be that R.J. Barrett one day can be one of those things you put in. That sounds a little aggressive to say R.J. Barrett's the best player in the basketball team. But you're never arguing.

You're never looking at Herb Jones and saying, yeah, I could see him being the main guy on a team or the number two offensive option. Where RJ... So you would move him right before the Tyrese's. I'm fine with it. I fully admit I'm not rational about Herb Jones, but I really value the stuff he does in an irrational way.

I'm not saying it's not valuable. It's just the profile of a player. Ultimately, what becomes more valuable? Somebody like RJ who at the best case scenario develops into somebody

who you can really trust to do a bunch of different things or Herb Jones who like is this incredibly nice complimentary player. I get Herb Jones

for two more years at a rookie deal is the last thing I would say with that. But you're right, RJ. If they, if the Pelicans call the Knicks up and offer Herb Jones straight up for RJ Barrett,

the Knicks probably hang up faster. Yes. Then fair. Okay. I would think so. So I'm going to move Herb to the mid-50s. Next question. Too high, too low, or just right for Marcus Smart?

So now he would be, I'd have him at 47 on this list now that we moved Herb. You know, if you'd asked me this a year ago, I would have, first of all, I don't think he would have been in your top 64. I was I don't think he would have either. I was really impressed with the way he kind of turned

things around for him. I'm serious. So I still think there's always going to be some kind of limitations. I'd be curious to see how the Brogdon thing plays out. But I think Smart, you know, there's always going to be a few shots you don't always like, but I didn't think it was like aggressively, like, what are you doing? You know, I thought he kind of started to defer a little bit more to the wings, which I think was a challenge at times before.

And you factor in the defense and that in-between stuff that he does. Look, if I said, you know, look, the Celtics would probably still trade him for R.J. Barrett. I keep getting back to Barrett. Maybe I'm too high on Barrett. The Jaron Jackson smart part of this. With smart, you got to factor the contract in too. I think he's at 16 or 17 a year now and i think that makes him more of an asset okay but would you been really really really

durable too would you trade him for tyrese maxi i would not you wouldn't no i would yeah yeah that's all right i'm still not sure i right. I'm still not sure I'm over De'Aaron Fox being not ranked and Keegan Murray being 58th. But I know it's a contract thing. Yeah, I get Keegan Murray for four years before I even have to

really think about it. Right, who I've never ever seen play yet. Like that seems to be reserved for kind of like, you know for picks. I'll bold Keegan Murray. The Genovese, we moved Herb Jones

out. 50 Tyler Hero, Poole, Bain, Smart, Brunson, Wiggins, Bridges. Congrats to Brunson, by the way. What an emotional journey for him to make that list. Two more. If Oklahoma City offered you Giddy and you're running Phoenix,

and they were like, we'll give you Giddy for Bridges, what would you say? I really value Bridges. I'm not going to overreact to the fact that that playoff series is weird. Watching that guy during the season, I thought he was probably the best

perimeter defender of all, like those 6'5 to 6'7 guys, right? Yeah, his defense, not only just on the perimeter, but then you watch against Luka and you're like, he just doesn't have the body type to fight with Luka over a series. It's just not going to happen. But is that fair to be like, oh, he can't guard Luka? Who the fuck can?

No, I completely agree with you. I'm not penalizing him for that. But I do think that Bridges has a bit of a disappearing act in his game though too offensively where I wonder like, is this kind of what it is? Because you're right, his defense isn't just the perimeter against most guys. It's like

sometimes he helps at the rim and blocks the rim and stuff and it's awesome. But there's also a decent chunk of games with Bridges where you're like, oh, he had four points tonight. I really needed him to step up and he didn't. It gets hard because he's also on a team with Booker and Chris Paul, right? It's not like they're going, hey, we'll stand over here. Bridges is going to run the offense for five minutes. So I don't, is there more in there for somebody else? He's on the perfect team, I think. But at least, okay. But I would say like Booker and Paul are willing teammates.

Like that's one of my favorite things about Booker is that, you know, he had to get other guys involved when it was just him. And Paul doesn't care. Paul takes zero shots. Bridges easily could have been in the Wigan spot for that Warriors team and probably had as much of an impact. We'll do one more group and then we'll go to a break. This group is called the Westbrooks, parentheses, regular season guys.

It's a little kind of a dig. 43 to 40. Bradley Beal, Shea Gilgis-Alexander, Jaden Ivey, and DeJounte Murray. I have Jaden Ivey bolded. I am perfectly happy to move him back into the 50s. The problem is I kept thinking back to the draft, how much value everybody seemed to think he had, and people wanted to move up and multiple picks.

And it's hard to think he shouldn't be in that range if he had that much value three weeks ago. So I don't know. You decide. You tell me. Can you be eligible for the regular season guy tier

when you've never played in a regular season game? Well, I put him in there because we've never seen him play. I didn't want to put him any lower. I didn't really know

where to put him. He couldn't go in the playoffs and he couldn't go in this next group. So I'd throw him in there. But I can move him to put him any lower. I didn't really know where to put him. He could have gone to the playoffs and he couldn't go in this next group, so I had to throw him in there. But I can move him to the 50s. What do you think, though? Because it seems like he really does have genuine value

and some teams, some people around the league seem to think that he might be a franchise guard, potentially. Yeah, when I look at the group J, the Ginobili's, Hero Pool, Bain, Smart, Jones, Brunson, Wiggins, Bridges, I don't know if any of those guys by themselves get a deal done for Jaden Ivey. Maybe I don't like his contract, which is just ludicrous. I mean, he has a no trade clause. He makes $50 million a year. But even House, who I think is Bradley Beal's biggest critic, was like, you can't put Bradley Beal in the 60s. That's ridiculous. Bradley Beal's good. He was an all NBA guy two years ago. So DeJounte Murray is the weird one to me because the price that he went for almost made me wonder

if he should be up higher in the 30s but then I just kind of felt like Atlanta panicked when they made that trade and overpaid for him not as bad as Minnesota paid for Gobert

but they gave up a lot and that seemed to be more situational than anything I wonder how many teams would have given that much up for Murray. So I think 40 seems like the right spot for him. But do you think he should be higher or no? Well, granted, we'll get to the rest of these guys. But when I started looking at Zach Levine, I'm going,

well, how much difference is there there except for a much better contract for DeJounte? Maybe that's not – like Zach's been doing it a little bit longer. Zach's probably a little bit more dynamic as a scorer, but DeJounte defends. He rebounds the hell out of the ball. Zach's been more successful, I think, as a player on teams. Yeah. He has done it longer, but now you factor in his contract versus DeJounte's. I think there's a decent conversation around what would you rather have. The only thing with Murray is

we know two years from now he's going to be one in the $35 to $40 million or whatever. And that would make me nervous considering we've never even seen... The one time we saw him in a playoff situation was that play-in game and he was absolutely terrible. He was really bad in that game.

It's one game. I get it. We're going to take a break and then we're going to move into the Top 40. When you ride transit, please be safe. Yeah, be safe. Because what you do, others will do too. Others will do it too. So don't take shortcuts across tracks. Don't do that. In fact, just don't

walk on tracks at all. Not at all. Trains move quietly so you won't hear them coming.. Don't do that. In fact, just don't walk on tracks at all. Not at all. Trains move quietly so you won't hear them coming. You won't hear them coming. See, safe riding sets an example. Yeah, an example for me. Because safety is learned. It's learned.

Okay, give it up. Give what up? Really? Really, really. This message is brought to you by Metrolinks. All right, we are now at number 39. This next group is group H. It's called Sorry He's Worth More

to Us Than to You. It features the following five guys. This will probably be where the podcast gets a little polarizing for people. Number 39, Chris Paul. Number 38, Dame Lillard. Number 37, Chris Middleton. Number 36, Chris Paul. Number 38, Dame Lillard. Number 37, Chris Middleton. Number 36,

Jamal Murray coming off an injury. Number 35, LeBron James. So going through all those, Chris Paul, I don't know how many more years he has left. I think he's worth more to Phoenix than any other team. I can't imagine Phoenix like, oh, cool. They offered us Josh Giddey for Chris Paul. Let's just do that and punt on this window we have to try to win the title. Dame just got this extension for $120 million for two years on top of all the money he's already making. That's one of those where he's making so much money, it doesn't make sense for anybody. Middleton, we saw how important he was because I think everybody thinks if he had played last season maybe Milwaukee wins the title

Murray don't need to make his case then LeBron you know this is year 20 for him and he's a free agent after the year I don't see any scenario where he has higher trade value than this

especially for a Lakers team you could argue should be rebuilding so the one I have bolded in this group is Dame, because I don't know if he should

even be higher than this. What's your take? We've talked about Dame quite a bit. It always felt like a witty push his way out. And a lot of this stuff, you have to remind yourself, unless you have info, it can be just completely speculative. Like, oh, he'll want to leave and then it becomes everybody's

son accepts it and it's like i had everybody keeps talking about this guy wanting to leave and then we had that chris haynes thing that you and i talked about i think that was even back a year ago where we kind of thank the fans and everything i was told consistently consistently throughout it like he likes being the star attraction for this franchise it's still geographically uh convenient to where he's from and how many family members he has up in the Portland area. And it's very clear that Portland's like, all right, we know we're not great, but we don't want to tear this whole thing down. The ownership thing's kind of weird with the announcements that it was going to be sold and now it's not for sale. I

don't know if that's just all posturing. So they bring back Nurkic, they pay Simons. I don't know why they had to tack on the extra years for Dame, but they must have the most assurance any franchise has had in recent history from their guy that he has no interest in going anywhere else. And they have somebody that people can come and buy tickets and watch. That's what I think this is. It's a collective, let's see what we have. Let's bring everybody back. We can show Dame that we're supportive. We're going to be supportive of him with the money. He's not going to be one of the stars that decides he's going to bail in a couple years because the Beal extension for me

is very clear. He wanted the 250. He got the 250. We'll see what happens now. Where Lillard, it's kind of played out based on just conversations I had with different people over the last couple of years. He's not really the kind of guy that wants to go play second act to somebody else, especially at an age where it's not like he's in his mid-30s. What is he, 31 now, 32? 31. because I thought his press conference, it was like, I felt like cheering as I was reading my iPad

where he has quotes like, I feel proud to be that guy. Something that's missing in our league is the character and the fight and the passion and pride about not just the name on the back, but the name on the front and how you impact the people

that you come in contact with. He said that and he also said, I don't think anybody wouldn't be happy being a champion, but it wouldn't be as fulfilling for me as I would want that moment to be, meaning if he left. So, you know, it really seemed genuine to me. I don't feel like he was just posturing. I think he wants to stay in Portland.

I think you're right about he likes being the guy, which he is. And if you're looking at this really carefully and you see how people reacted to Curry and Golden State and Giannis and Milwaukee, because those guys had been there and stayed there, obviously it's meaningful to him. So I don't know. I was buying what he was selling. Yeah. And Portland gave him two extra years when they didn't need to. I mean, we were wondering like, wait, his four year extension is about to kick in. He doesn't play this year. He was clearly hurt.

I've been told he's going to tear it up this year. They're like, look out. Like he is going to absolutely tear it up. Like that's the kind of guy he is. That's the kind of shape he is. That's the kind of work he's put in. So maybe they just all got together and he was like,

I'm not going to be like everybody else. Cause usually when I hear these quotes, I just, it's an eye roll, you know, you're like, all right, cool,

whatever. With him, it feels more belie believable and i think they just all were so on the same page and i do wonder too if you look at the last couple years of the contract at 25 26 he's going to be 58.5 um in 26 27 it's going to be 63.2. That'll be 36 years old. Oh my God. See, that's why I can't move them higher than 38. I can't move them out of this group. Is that done, as you were very early on this when the first one came through, because I remember reading it going like, wait, the cap bump because of the TV deals? And you were like, I don't know how many people wrote about it.

I just remember going wait this could change is that with the TV deal expiring in 24-25 where Portland goes well shit they're going to triple again and 60 million for a player like people are freaking out about 60 plus million do you realize what contracts are going to look like in

like another 6 or 7 years yeah with all that said, the Evan Turner, Luol Deng, Joe Kipno, some are still incredible. But yeah, you're right.

The price for a superstar, it's probably going to either be medium-sized or low. The question is whether he'll still be a superstar in the middle of this decade because we just saw him miss an entire year

and he's a little guy and little guys don't age that well. That's your thing and you're not wrong about it. That's why the Chris Paul thing. All right. So we just saw him miss an entire year and he's a little guy and little guys don't age that well. That's your thing and you're not wrong about it. That's why the Chris Paul thing. Alright, so we'll leave him at 38. Yeah. We don't need to talk about LeBron, right? Yeah, we do. You have to give it because when I first

looked, I was like, wait, what? LeBron's 35th? But I don't, like when you start running through the names ahead of it, it's an almost an impossible conversation. Like what is it on the trade market? I mean, he's, he's got to age at some point here pretty quickly,

right? I think he's probably 35. You could talk me into, he could be in the, in the high twenties in a group that we're two groups away from. So I'm going to bold LeBron and we'll talk about him again in the 20s. Next group is called, this is, I think, your favorite group.

Group G. Too young, too cheap, too good. Please stop calling us. This goes from 34 to 29. Number 34 is LaMelo Ball. Jabari Smith. Jalen Green. Your guy, Darius Garland.

And then 30 and 29. I put Paolo 30 and Chet 29. Even just watching Chet in the Summer League, I'm more excited about Chet right now. And this breaks my rule of don't take any lessons from Summer League. But the shopwalking, I think, is going to be something he's going to be able to do as a pro in a way that even if... I know Summer League's ridiculous.

I know you're going to get to see him in person, but I really like both of them. I have Chet by a hair right now. But everyone's a winner in that one. Any of those names? Do you like the order? I'll do it again. Lamello, Jabari, Jalen Green, Garland, Paolo, Chet.

Who would you have leading that group? I'd have Paolo leading it. Okay. But, you know, you want something funny? The first day I wrote it. I think you're right. I'm going to move Chet. I think I just got excited.

Go ahead. The blocking of the shots is hysterical because I think the numbers, like 75% of the guys that you're watching in summer league games will never be on an NBA roster. True. And so, 75% of the guys that you're watching in summer league games will never be on an NBA roster. Sure. And so a lot of those guys apparently either don't pay any attention.

I don't know. There's a ton of advanced scouting with these groups. Or they pay a ton of attention and are like, this stiff was the number two pick. I'm going to go right at him. Yeah, I'm going to go right at him. Guys keep going right at him with no idea what they're challenging. His instincts, his placement, the way he just...

And he's enormous. His shot blocking is incredible. And yeah, it's just summer league, but it's funny because it's happening so much. He's got the instincts. You can see it. I'm not saying like, oh, now in the regular season.

But I can see in the NBA regular season, guys are going to stop doing this. Where the summer league guys just don't know any better. It's all stuff we knew he had. The other thing is how active he is on offensive rebounds. He's going to the rim with his hands up over and over and over again. And you just got to keep remembering to box him out. He's really smart.

Listen, we never doubted the talent. It was just a question of physically can this guy hold up for 15 years? What's he going to look like when he's 26? Talent-wise, he's got it. Bill, he was doing stuff. It's just a great mindset that he cares this much, but

the big comes down at the top of the key and the ball is to his left or right and he'll go into his guy and then get out of it and catch it, and then the action happens, and then you can pass a chat. He's running into his guy like a tight end in the end zone and pushing off and getting separation. Then there's that, I think they call it a Spain cut,

where it ends up being something where you kind of trail down the lane on the other side. Most guys, if they even know what they're doing, they don't care unless the play's for them. And he's like making these cuts as if it's like a high-intensity regular season game. And these are such great traits to have in a player. But back to the Powell part of it,

like, you know how it was just back and forth, and then it was Jabari, and it was Chet, it was all these different things. I always had a really hard time with it. I had a really hard time with it. Okay. And then finally I go, you know, I'm just going to go Paolo. sky whatever the first four people i ran into were like do you see paulo yet i was like i watched it on tv and then i'll see today like that's why i drove straight here to see paulo i didn't check the hotel because i want to see paulo first and they were like yeah it's not really close it's paulo i'm like wait wait i'm like it's definitely still and i I'm the Ben Carroll guy. And I'm thinking like, wait, it's still a conversation. And it's, it's just kind of funny that like how impactful Pala was in these first few games. And as good as Chet has been just to see how big Pala was physically, there's something

that cannot replace, like actually seeing your prospect out on a floor with other NBA bodies where you're just go, my God, this guy is huge and he's so smooth. And to be fair, these weren't guys that were like digging into the draft. They were kind of more on the day-to-day NBA side of it. And I just kind of like laughed to myself thinking, so everybody's convinced that it was always Powell and there was never a conversation

because he's been so good in the early summer league. Chet's really good. All right. So we went Lomelo, Jabari, Jalen, Garland, Chet, Palo. Now we're into Group F, which is called, if you tell Woj, I'll deny it to the death, but I'm listening. I like this title.

I like that title better than Group G. There's one name in here that shouldn't be in here, but there was nowhere else to put him. Anyway, number 28 to number 23, Zach Levine, Donovan Mitchell, who's bolded. Rudy Gobert, who I had nowhere else to put. He kind of just had to be in this group, even though he just got traded.

Carl Anthony Towns, Kawhi Leonard, number 24, Zion Williamson, number 23. So number 27, Donovan Mitchell, number 23. So number 27, Donovan Mitchell, who I have bolded. I have moved him all around the place the last couple weeks.

And I think it's the rare case of somebody's trade value actually being worth more than the actual player. Because he's the last really tradable asset. I think people know Utah

wants to trade him, despite what they would say asset. I think people know Utah wants to trade him, despite what they would say publicly. I think people could talk themselves into a lot of things with him about weird situation. He needs to have the ball more, put him in a big market, it's going to blow up. And initially I had him in the 30s, like right around where LeBron was,

but I moved him up because I think he is going to get traded. I think he's going to go for a lot. And it's the same reason, like if I had done this, if we'd done this podcast two weeks ago, I would have had Gobert in the Westbrooks regular season, guys. It would have happened in the 40s because of his contract. Like his contract's prohibitive. That's a lot of money for a tall guy in his 30s.

But we know what happened. Minnesota overpaid for him in a pretty historic way. So Mitchell, I feel like has to be in his 30s. But we know what happened. Minnesota overpaid for him in a pretty historic way. So Mitchell, I feel like, has to be in the 20s. What are your thoughts on that? I don't know what to do. I don't think there's a perfect answer because a lot of it depends on what the other person thinks of Mitchell. We could go back and forth, and these are yours,

but is it impossible to think if the Clippers got a call? Again, why would Utah trade for Kawhi Leonard? But would they go, look, Mitchell's healthy, wants to be here. Maybe it's a little bit easier to work with than Kawhi. I don't think that's crazy. Mitchell, going back to the playoff series a couple years ago, he would have been a lot higher. This wasn't a great year for him.

But then on the other front, if I look back to Group G, the really young guys, what if... I wouldn't trade any of those guys for Mitchell. Yeah, so that's why Mitchell's ahead of him. But if you offered Mitchell for Paolo right now to Orlando, they're telling you no.

Yeah, I think he should go higher. I'm going to move him into the LeBron group. I think every single guy in the group. Lower, you mean? Yeah, I'm going to move him to 34, I think. Because in that group G, Lamello, Jabari,

Jalen Green, Darius Garland, Chet Holmgren, Paolo, I just don't think their teams would trade any of those guys straight up for Donovan Mitchell. I don't. It's not really how trades work. You know, you can have our top pick if we ended up not liking them in two years. You're right. But right now?

Right now, no. And I think Utah, it's weird because I think Utah would look at it as like, we need more, we need Palo and picks for Donovan Mitchell or we're not giving him up. So this would be the case for him not getting traded. But I think the Miami thing will eventually work out somehow would be my guess.

Don't you think? Hero, Duncan Robinson, couple more contracts and picks, maybe Lowry's in it, they take Mike Conley back and they just give them a million picks would be my guess.

Even though you normally don't get the really good player back when you're trading your good player, I get to do better than Tyler Hero. I don't know. Miami always seems to find a way with Spoh and that entire front office who's terrific of still being competitive.

They're a worse bet to say, oh, I have this unprotected pick in 28. Some of these teams, I'm like, yeah, awesome. Like Knicks. Yeah. So if it's RJ Barrett and picks, I'm like, oh, I'm getting Knicks picks. This is great. Yeah. This team's been confident for decades.

If I'm getting Heat picks, I'm not as excited about it because I just think the world of those guys and what they pull off. And then I'm like wait I gotta take on Dungan Robinson's extension too like wait who did you call for did you call for Bogdanovich or Mitchell right that's a fair

point well we'll put them at 34 so group F is now Zach Levine Rudy Gobert Carl Anthony Towns Kawhi Leonard at number 23 is now Zach Levine, Rudy Gobert, Carl Anthony Towns, Kawhi Leonard at number 23, Zion Williamson. Now, what'll be interesting about

doing this list a year from now is you could tell me Zion's in like, he's like number eight next year. Or number five. He might've been top 10 for me after point Zion season. Yeah. Oh, if we did this a year ago, I think there's no question. He's in the top 10 last year.

So this year, it's 23 and it could go one way or the other. I don't think he'll be 23 again. He'll either be like 13 or he'll be like 48. And just an aside on the contract, he gets the five years. It could be 193. It could be 231, right? So they could end up being everything that he would have gotten if everything were normal that he signed it proves shit

can we all just agree on that like if i had been zion this whole time i'd be going of course i just want this extension like i'll figure it out later and everybody said the right thing and maybe he loves it and that's where he wants to be and everybody's saying all the perfect things. But think how like for another organization it might have been like, we don't know that we even want to do the four or the five years for 193 because we're just not sure.

So now he's got it on paper. He's good. He knows he's going to make that money. These guys have insurance on the deals on top of every other thing. So I don't know that it proves anything other than it locks in what he's going to make, Bill, and we'll now see. I hope it all works out. I hope

he stays there. I hope he's healthy. I hope the Pelicans are awesome. But if anybody looks at that announcement and the news of the signing is like, oh, I thought he wanted to leave, like the sarcastic like, oh, I thought Zion wanted to go somewhere else. Well, no. What he wanted first and foremost is what happened this week, and now we'll see.

Who do you think is more likely to get traded between him and Ingram? If you just had to say the next four years, one of those two guys will be traded, which would be your bet? We're not reporting anything. We're not saying anything. No, no. Four years from now, who is less likely to be on that team? If Zion's healthy, Ingram's the one that would be traded

just because Zion has the star quality, the hype part around it, the kind of thing that gets your fan base more excited than Ingram, despite the fact Ingram just finished up another year. If I'm Ingram, I'm like, man, I was really good this year. And now when people go, hey, are they going to do Point Zion? It was fun. It worked. They better not do it. That's not going to work. That's that heliocentric shit I never really

like, even if it was fun to watch. And I'm telling you, Ingram didn't like it. I watched enough of those games to be like, oh, cool. ISO five out. Zion, while I stand here as a corner outlet like some 37-year-old guy. I didn't think Willie Green's terrific,

and they'll get everybody involved. But Point Zion, I think, would be like an emergency break glass situation, not the foundation of their offense. The most fun KD trade now that we've had to think about this for three weeks is clearly Ingram and Picks for KD. Ingram and a million picks is just the most fun trade because KD would still have a chance to succeed in a real way with a good team. And the Nets would be able to reboot in a decent way and kind of extricate

themselves from this and get those picks back so they're not kind of screwed with the picks they're giving the Rockets. Anyway. All right. Now we're into the top 22. Brandon Ingram, coincidentally, is in this next group. This is Group E. We have five groups to go. Five people. The group is called, let me save you some time, NO. Number 22, Brandon Ingram.

Number 21, Pascal Siakam, who I have bolded. Number 20, Drew Holiday. Number 19, Jalen Brown. Number 18, Bam Adebayo. I also have Drew Holiday bolded. I'm just going to say I'm happy to be accused of overrating Drew Holiday. I completely utterly 100% value respect and adore what he does. And I think if my goal is to win the title,

he has to be in the top 20 for me. I think his contract's fine. We already saw him get traded for a shitload. And that is a guy I know I can win the title with if he's on my team with a great player. So I have him 20, but I also have him bolded because you could argue he should be in the next group. Siakam, I think I value a little more than most.

I thought the last four months, I thought he was awesome. Contract's solid. But would the Pelicans trade Zion Williamson for Pascal Siakam? No. I'm not sure Toronto would do it either. So I don't know where to put those guys. So what is your take on that? Ingram, Siakam, Holiday, Jalen Brown, Adebayo?

It gets really tough here. Because I probably look at some of the group that's coming up next, and I like Bam maybe a couple, better than a couple of those guys. But then you're wondering, all right, am I overrating? When you start thinking about this group, can this guy be number one or number two

on a really good playoff team? You don't have to say, oh, he has to win a title because that list becomes even smaller. And even with Bam, I love him, but I still felt like there were a few games in that Celtics series

where I was like, I need a little bit more out of you. I'm so glad you said that. That was the reason I didn't want to put him in the group D. Because there were games where Miami was basically like,

we need more from Bam. Where is he? We had to get him more involved. And it was just like, they lost the series and I actually think if he had played better i think they could have won the series so i still was driving around yesterday i was still thinking about that jimmy butler three i was like how weird how different would things feel right now and i mean you know it's the same thing as the durant shot against milwaukee the year before like how different everything would have felt but But yeah,

with Bam, you know, now we're starting to talk about guys being like, you got to be number one or number two on a really good basketball team. And I'm even wondering like, does Siakam check that box more? Does Ingram checked it more? But then I'm like,

no, Bam's defense is versatility. Maybe it was a bad matchup because, you know, we're going to sit here and rave about Boston's defense and multiple bigs. They can throw at you. Maybe it was the worst possible situation for Bam and all that other stuff. But I don't

know if he's ever going to be the second guy even though I like him and all that stuff. And I might even like Ingram more than Siakam. But again, now I'm just out loud, stream of consciousness. Only because the Ingram relationship thing seems to be fine. Siakam's had a couple moments where he's worried me a bit.

Yeah, I want to move Siakam back. Yeah, poor Siakam. He didn't even do anything. He moved it back like one. So, wait, Zion? I want to move him to Group F because I also don't think the Clippers would trade Kawhi for Siakam in a million years.

But I think Toronto would, I think there's trade Kawhi for Siakam in a million years, but I think Toronto would. I think there's a longer phone call for Toronto in that situation. Toronto's like, Jesus, the Clippers are offering us Kawhi for Siakam. We got to have a meeting. What about Towns pre-contract extension? Yeah, I think he should be... I was thinking maybe Siakam right before Levine. So I'd put him number 27.

But you voted him all NBA, correct? I did, but what you said is the catch with that. He's had two moments now in the last couple years where it just seemed like things were going wrong and he was very available, right? That's just twice in the last two years. So I think we have to factor that in. So I'll make Group F, 28, Zach Levine,

Siakam, 27, Gobert, Towns, Kawhi, Zion. And then Group B is just Ingram, Holiday, Jalen Brown, and Bam. I think that's right. Because I think Ingram, for what he showed us in the playoffs and how his arrow is pointed up, I think he's more valuable than Siakam to me. You agree? I like him a little bit better. Although, you know, again, Siakam's run to close the season and he's played in bigger playoff games. But, you know, you could argue that the biggest playoff games he was playing, it was a little easier for him because he had Kawhi around. Should we have spent more time talking about kawaii or no because i have him now he would be 18 19 20 i'm not really much much of a kawaii guy i just i'm kind of sick of hearing about like nobody knows what he's doing he does his own thing

i don't know that i want to trade for that guy and give him the keys and be like oh he's hurt a lot and then never tells us if he's healthy. And then I got to keep extending them. And he actually gave up all these picks to bring in Paul George because getting Paul George is the way to cement me getting Kawhi. I don't know. I guess I'm a little difficult that way that if I owned a basketball team or if I ran a basketball team, the guy was paying 40 million. I'd like a few more heads up on whether or not he's going to come back and play. I don't know. I'm getting fucking crazy over here. A little more communication.

We gave up 75 first-round picks at Shane Gilgis-Alexander and Gallinari for you. Can you just tell us if you're going to show up today? All right, so we'll move Siakam. So it's Zach Levine, Siakam, Gobert Towns, Kawhi, Zion.

And then Group B is Ingram, Holiday, Brown, Bam. And now we're going to the top 17. This is group D. What a beautiful group this is. This thing. I just want a t-shirt with this group on it. Kyle wants a break.

Let's take a break. All right, we're hitting the home stretch here. 17 to go. Group D. It's called True Franchise, guys. First of all, k 17 to go. Group D. It's called True Franchise Guys. First of all, kudos to you. Your guy, Scotty Barnes, made it number 17. You were driving the bandwagon. You bought a lot of real estate on Scotty Barnes Island coming out of college. You were all in. You were vindicated. Toronto even called him a true franchise guy. They, one of the press conferences.

I'm all into, I love Scotty Barnes. I have him 17, Kate Cunningham, 16, who I bolded. Jimmy Butler, 15,

Paul George, 14, Trey Young, 13, Anthony Davis, 12, and Devin Booker, 11.

And one of the things with Booker is something Eddie Johnson said when I was on the show with him in Termini, a show that I love. You listen to it on SiriusXM, the NBA station. He's like, Booker's the guy in Phoenix and that matters. It matters. We just saw it with Dame Lillard. It matters when you become the guy. And they don't even need to tell Devin Booker, hey, we might trade you for KD or don't listen to those rumors or whatever because he knows he's not getting traded. He's the guy in Phoenix. That's how it's going to play out. He's not leaving Phoenix. So I think he has the most

trade value. He's also had a lot of success. Came very close to winning the title. He's a proven guy. We saw him with Chris Paul out of the lineup still be able to, at least during the regular season, keep that team going. Davis, it gets a little dicey,

and I didn't really know what to do with him. I have him bolded as well. So I had Cade and Davis bolded in this group. Scotty Barnes, Cunningham, Butler, George, Young, Davis, and number 11, Booker. Want to talk about Davis first? No, actually, I don't, because I feel like... Do all the other stuff first.

Because Davis is really hard to figure out here. I'm surprised you had him this high. I have no issue with it. I think most people would have an issue with it because it's too many injuries. I thought you would kind of turn the page on him. So I didn't think he would be this high for you. I thought about the bubble in the playoffs and how important he was for a lot of that time.

And he had a chance. I think if he had had a killer closeout in game six, I think he was going to win finals MVP. And I think there was a real argument now about the torch has been passed from Duncan to him, but over and over again in his career, every time there's been a moment like that, it hasn't happened for him. I just think it's still year 11 for him. We have a lot of time to go. Durant's year 16. LeBron's year 20. I feel like the journey, I'm not ready to write him off as a top 12 guy yet. And I do think if they dangled him, he would have an incredible amount of value. There's just not a lot of people like him and you can make excuses for a lot of miles in the bubble.

He put on too much weight last season. Now he learned his lesson. I want to see him this year before I decide about what his ceiling is as a superstar. I like it. I do. I like it. I really, I have a hard time believing

like when I think about the way he's talked about people saying, oh would you even get for him it's like well if you have to start asking yourself like how how well would we do then that means you keep them you know like that means you keep them and it's always really hard like we don't have the alex english mark aguirre trades anymore right we don't have those like that was dead did. That would be awesome. That was a weird... Kid Marbury was another classic. Kid Marbury's another good one. No picks, nothing. Just point guard for point guard. That would be a good pot.

Like the actual good player for good player traits that used to happen. Doesn't happen anymore. Right. It's too hard. You can't trade Davis when LeBron's still there and all the other shit they're dealing with. So whenever I...

This is the way I ask this. You can, and I'm talking to like anyone listening going, ah, Anthony Davis, whatever. I get it. He's hurt. It's super frustrating. And on top of that, he stopped making shots. Like, wait, are you going to be a big guy now that lost your jumper?

Because now that changes who you are big time. I can't ever convince myself that there isn't some great second act coming for him. Me too. And whether he gets there or not, I don't know. But I know that Jimmy Butler is 15th on this list, who has proven himself to be one of the better big game guys of this generation. And if the Lakers called Miami up and said, we'll give you Anthony Davis for Jimmy Butler, Miami's either doing it or they're having a seven-hour meeting before they decide not to do it. But I just think they would do it. If they could turn Jimmy Butler and Anthony Davis, I think they'd do it. You're thinking about it.

No, I am thinking about it. Because you could say with Miami, it might be a little different because you know, cause they'd be saying like, we need, it's a little great thing about two seconds until they think about, wow, we could have Bam and Anthony Davis together. We're doing this. Like what did Minnesota do?

Let's do that. Can we go, can we go backwards to 17 Scotty Barnes versus 16 Cade Cunningham? Yeah. This was another Paolo Chet thing for me. I flipped it back and forth a bunch of times. I'm perfectly happy to flip it again. I guess it depends what you want from your young franchise guard.

Do you want all the stuff Scotty does or do you want all the stuff Cade does? And who gives you a better chance if he was your guy on a team that's trying to win the title four years from now just in your head what would you rather want I lean towards Cade as much as I love Scottie I did too it feels like the way Cade plays basketball you're like if that's what I'm getting and that's the way he figures out and the scary thing with this is Barnes I think out of necessity we started to see some glimpses of him running the offense and you were like man

so and I can't even completely rule it out Scotty Barnes yeah but that was probably more because of injury but you know the best version of Cade is almost what every team would hope to the way the game is played now high pick and roll can shoot still okay off a willing teammate.

All those things. So him at his highest profile is why I would agree with you in having him ahead of Scottie Barnes. And then Butler 15, Paul George 14. You can make a case Paul George could go into Group B because of the injury history.

Totally. Yeah. But I just, I really value his, like some of the stuff he was doing in the playoffs two years ago. That's nice to say, right? After all those playoff years, that was kind of a nice thing to say.

Yeah. I really valued how he ran that team. And I do think of Kawhi, even when Kawhi got hurt, they still were able to get to the next round. I don't know. I just think him versus Butler, it's pretty even in my mind.

But you could say with the injury, with the fact that, you know, he had the awful broken leg. Now he's had some major, major shoulder stuff that, you know, you call it the Blake Griffin zone. But it's like, how many serious injuries can you have before you change physically? And I wonder if he's getting there.

Yeah, this is where the Cade part, you go like, how high could I actually put this guy doing it one year, losing a bunch of games in Detroit with not a great team around him, right? Yeah, whereas Paul George, we've seen him carry really good teams. I feel a little better about the Jimmy Butler resume than the Paul resume that had some. I'll flip those then.

I think you're right. Yeah, because seeing Paul George that high makes me nervous because just thinking about an MRI of his body, you'd be like, whoa, what's that? What's that? Why isn't that a clean shoulder? What's going on with the shoulder? Why does it zag there for a second? I'll put him 15.

Okay, so we'll go 17 Barnes, 16 Cade, 15 Paul George, 14 Jimmy Butler. Who's probably mad. He's not higher. Trey Young, Anthony Davis, Devin Booker. The Trey thing is a little complicated because I think he's worth so much more to Atlanta than any other team. And they're all in, right? There's really no scenario where they even take phone calls about him.

But if we're just doing a who should have the highest trade value, I'm not sure I would have him in the top 13. But I do think, you know, he took him to conference finals. We've seen him succeed in the playoffs regardless of the circumstances. And I think that it's around that range.

This one's really interesting because I mean, now you bring in DeJounte. Would you say no if Miami offered you Bam for Trey? I think Atlanta would say no faster because I think they value the Trey piece in the city.

And the fact that he's the first cool hawk since like Dominique. I think that matters. Well, Herter, but yeah. And Herter, I should have said. I'm just reconciling the fact that the Celtics didn't get Herter in the trade exception.

I wanted it so bad. Well, because you needed to give him something. You can't. I mean, that was an asset move, you know? Yeah, but we could have given him... Basically, all the stuff they gave for Brockton easily could have gone in a herder trade. I would trade Trey for

Cade. I'd have no problem. You would if you were Atlanta. Right. Doesn't mean I'd put Cade 12th after one rookie year. Again, this isn't like LeBron's rookie year. I don't know. Where would you have LeBron after his rookie year again this isn't like lebron's rookie year you know i don't know where would you where did you have lebron after his rookie year was did he was he number one on your trade value chart oh

he i think he was like uh no because shack was still in the league at that or no shack no kobe was in the league t mac was in the league lebron was definitely like four or five that first year yeah i'm just you just talking out loud here. So it feels like Trey, I don't have a problem with where he is, but I would just say... Wait a second, you raised an interesting point because I think we agree on this. I'd rather have Cade Cunningham than Trey Young.

Yeah. Contracts would be the same. If somebody said to me tomorrow, like, hey, we have this thing. You're running the new expansion team. And the first two guys, I mean, this is an absurd scenario

because it's all fake. But you could have Kate or Trey. I'd go, oh, yeah, give me Kate. Well, Kate at 7 million versus Trey now on a Mac deal. Have them both be 30 million.

So we should move Trey down then. I think we didn't want to admit it but i think we have to admit it all right i'm moving him this 17 i'm moving him behind barns and kate would you trade would toronto trade barns straight up for trey no because this is where this is where the part of trey's game where if you're toronto and you're nick nurse and you go well do you want, do you want to do what we do? Do you want to play? I think the DeJounte trade was part of

trying to get Trey a little more broken in, to be honest with you. Like, hey man, we know you're awesome. We know you can do all these things. We know you can score a million points. But, alright, that's it. Alright, so we'll put Barnes and Cunningham above him because of rookie salaries. That's it.

I mean, you just fundamentally, it's easier to build a team around those two guys making six, seven million a year versus Trey making in the high 30s. 17, Trey, 16, Scottie, 15, Cade, 14, Paul George, 13, Jimmy Butler, 12, Davis, 11, Devin Booker. Next group is a one-man group. It's called Group C. We're not trading him, parentheses, Davis, 11, Devin Booker. Next group is a one-man group. It's called Group C.

We're not trading him, parentheses, but make us an offer. And it's Kevin Durant. And he's number 10. And this is why the trade value list is so much fun because we have real life examples, right? We know that if they call Minnesota for Anthony Edwards, Minnesota is saying, no thanks. And we'll go through the untouchables. But Durant at number 10, I got to be honest, in the spring, before he asked for a trade request,

I had him at number 10. So the trade request did not change his ranking at all. It feels like it should, but I get what you're doing here. It's his 16th year. He's had a foot injury.

He had torn Achilles. He's had two feet injuries. He's had a lot of miles on him. He's played a lot of playoff games. And he's seven feet tall and who knows. So I think he's still one of the five best players in the league.

But I think number 10 is the right spot for him. So now, next group is the untouchables. This is group B. From nine to five, Anthony Edwards, Evan Mobley, who I've bolded, Jason Tatum, Joel Embiid,

and John Morant. There's some great arguments in this one. Am I too high on Evan Mobley is my first question. I'm eighth. I'll just give you my answer now. I would trade everybody except for Embiid for Anthony Edwards in this group. Wow.

Including Ja. Oh! I don't give a shit Even Evan Mobley? Yeah Really? The best version of Anthony Edwards is what You want On your basketball team

So as much as I love Mobley, we all love Mobley We love him, the guy doesn't make any mistakes. He's awesome. Which NBA team in this era are they running stuff through him? Like I need somebody with the ball who can go figure it out and do it for me.

And that's what the game is. And with Edward's size, he's not even 21 years old yet. And his personality. His personality is incredible. He might have the highest approval. Him and Ja might have the highest approval ratings of anyone other than Steph.

Oh, I think he's ahead of Ja's because I think Ja, after the Warrior series, when we started doing a little code breaking, people were kind of like, what's going on with Ja? Again, people were kind of like, what's going on with Ja? And again, Ja's one of my favorite, I think it's,

he's one of my favorite players to watch. I think it's so authentic. I think he represents the city. It's awesome. I still think of that game, was it game two where he had 47 against Golden State? That's crazy. Anthony Edwards has never done anything like that. However,

body type, projection here. I always worried about how Ja lands five or six times a game. I really worry about the injury piece with Ja too. The reason I put him five is just what he means to Memphis and just how fucking popular he is.

I mean, he's the most, according to the NBA, like all their digital media, their social, everything. Like Ja's the most popular young player. I think that has to matter. Also, they've had real success

with him, the whole thing. Honestly, you should put Ja in the top tier then. Because if that's what we're talking about, importance to city, then it's hard to... Yeah, but that's part of're talking about importance to city then yeah it's hard to ask right this is part of trade value so all right i'll flip moby and edwards because you

sold me on that they offer edwards for tatum and you say you say what i plead the fifth I'm not giving my answer I would do it because I think we love Jason Tatum I think Tatum has I'm fucking out of here written all over him one day

come on yeah just a guess I don't know I do love Anthony Edwards well the real question for me is Embiid so I have Embiid 6.

Big center, injury history. Little older now. He's been in the league. He was in the 2014 draft. Huge contract. Because I was trying to figure out, is he like, should he be 9 or should he be 6? He's also a guy who means an incredible amount to the city too.

See if that factor. But would you, so right now it's Mobley, Edwards, Tatum, Embiid, Morant. Should Embiid be nine instead of six? Player, he should be five. You know, player, he should be in the next group

if you want to hit me with the injury history stuff. But I still think the injury story for Embiid has gone so much better than I thought it was going to go. Yeah, I'm with you. Than when it started. And I would put,

you know what I like about this group is personality-wise, love Edwards, we don't know Mobley enough at this point. I think, you know, Tatum, for the most part, I think seems to get it.

I love Embiid's personality. I love Ja's personality for the most part. But Embiid, I don't, I mean,id's personality. I love Jha's personality for the most part. But Embiid, I don't, I mean, that's weird. Like, if we're playing the game of if you offered Anthony Evers for Embiid, Philly

is saying no, you're right. Would you say no to Mobley? Yeah, you would, probably. But offensively, you know, Embiid from a very early age is showing more offensively than Mobley does at this point. I'm higher on Mobley's offense than you.

I actually thought I saw him initiate stuff. I like the fact that he wasn't afraid to shoot threes. I think he's a fantastic passer. And I think he really gives a shit. I don't want to say anything negative about him. I just don't think... Yeah, I don't want to say anything negative about him. I just, I don't think.

Yeah, we're in hollow ground. The thing about this is like, we're now in the top nine players for assets and being the ninth player on this list is nothing to be ashamed of. After one year in the NBA. Pretty cool. Yeah.

Yeah. Would you trade, if you're Cleveland, would you trade Evan Mobley for Kevin Durant? Straight up. Which Durant am I getting? Am I getting? You're getting Durant right now.

I think I'd say no. Yeah, you'd say no because Kevin Durant's going to- Because I know he's going to want to trade in a year. Yeah, he's going to be not super happy the moment he gets there. And I think that factors in too. And that's the thing that's been the big caveat of this trade list is like, you also have to factor in how many cities would this guy be happy? And if I'm getting Evan Mobley, he's like, I don't care where I'm playing. I'm so happy to be in the NBA. Great.

Durant's got like probably four cities he'd actually want to go to, right? Yeah, probably. And that matters for trade value. How many of the four does he want to stay in for four more years? You know what you should do when it gets a little bit more boring this summer? You should do NBA happiness rankings. Just who do you think is the happiest, the least happiest?

Go 60 deep. You'd be like, all right, so I have Sam Houser third. He's got an extension. I hear good things. All right, last group. Group A. Group B was the untouchables.

Group A is completely and utterly untouchable. Nobody, these teams don't even get calls. Number four, Steph Curry. Number three, Nikola Jokic. Number two, Luka Doncic. Number one, Giannis, who I Doncic, number one, Giannis, who I think has been number one for a few years in a row now.

And I think that's the right order too. If Steph was younger, you might move him to one. Steph's 34. This is all degrees. None of this makes sense. None of these guys are ever getting traded. Jokic just signed this massive contract extension.

Doncic is younger than all of them. And Giannis is a guaranteed finals trip if you can keep his supporting cast around him or close. And he's in his prime, and I think he has to be number one. Do you agree with that final four? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, honestly, it's a credit for Steph being in the group when he's 34 years old.

Jokic, 27. Doncic, 23., honestly, it's a credit for Steph being in the group when he's 34 years old. Jokic, 27. Donch is 23. Giannis, 27. I think Giannis is the only guy you would trade Luka for. Right? I mean, we could get into some weird thing where it'd be like, well, wait, wouldn't Golden State actually say no for Jokic, for Curry? And then I started playing with it.

All of them are saying no. Right. This morning, I went, like, what would you do? What would happen if it was like four non-playable characters around Steph versus the same people with Jokic? Like which team does better?

We saw it last year with Steph. He didn't make the playoffs. It was basically him and Draymond, remember? Yeah. And Wiggins before he became Wiggins yet and a lot of Toscano Anderson and Sububre and they couldn't even get out of the plan I think this is the right list that Curry was

younger he'd be higher but I think it's the right order alright so the big ones we moved Siakam back we flipped we moved Trae Young back a little bit we flipped Chet and Paolo moved Mitchell back a group

moved Herb Jones back and then you had a question about Keegan Murray would you bump Keegan Murray and put in somebody from Honorable Mention in there which could be De'Aaron Fox it could be Draymond Green

it could be Kaminga it could be Dylan Brooks it could be Darren Fox. It could be Draymond Green. It could be Kaminga. It could be Dylan Brooks. It could be Simons. I'm going back here. You seem pretty unenthused about Keegan Murray. I just think it's a lot to have him ahead of, you know, he's the 58th most valuable player when we haven't seen him play.

Like, is there a version of this where Keegan Murray's a bust? So maybe I just do a top 63. Do you even want to move anyone in? Is anyone from Honorable Mention bugging you? I'll read Honorable Mention. Draymond? No, I have it. I have it in front. Oh, go ahead. Read it for the audience. You're right.

Kuzma, McDaniels, Caruso, Vucevic, Trent, Collins, McCollum, Mathurin, Fox, Carter, Rob Williams, Seth Curry, Simon, Simons, Brooks, Ludort, Draymond, Kaminga, Keegan Murray. You know what? Let's put Draymond in there. Yeah. I know he's in a contract here. I know he's a little older, but he's had a great career.

I think we could put him right before Jared Allen. I'll put him 64. He'll be the last guy. Here's our final list. Real quick though, you would say no.

Well, I guess the Knicks could have done it instead. But it felt like you would rather have Jalen Brunson than DeAndre Ayton. I think I would rather have Jalen Brunson for 25 than Aiton for 33 or whatever. I think I would. Okay. I don't think it's crazy. I'm just, you know, I think Aiton, I think a lot of this is,

you know, this is what you would try to do as a GM. Be like, who is everybody down on right now because of a bad playoff series? Oh, you and I would both have traded for Aiton already. Yeah, the Pacers thing, the Pacers thing cooling is interesting because it felt like eventually they were going to go ahead and make a move here.

It's going to be really weird if he's just back on Phoenix after all this time, huh? Sure you don't want to move Giddy up into the low 40s before we lock this listed. Well, I'll leave him there. Okay, finalist. You would say no, Just to double check here If Giddy

See Desmond Bain I really like him at 49 He deserves that Yeah that's fine Okay That's fine Here's the list Group L

Quality starters Draymond Ananobi Ayton Jared Allen Van Vliet DeRozan Sabonis

Group K The Upside Gang 57-51 Halliburton Maxie Jones Aiton, Jared Allen, Van Vliet, DeRozan, Sabonis. Group K, the Upside Gang, 57-51. Halliburton, Maxie, Jones, Jaron Jackson, RJ Barrett, Franz Wagner, Josh Giddey. Now we're in the top 50. Group J, the Genovese, Hero, Poole, Bain, Smart, Brunson, Wiggins, Bridges. Group I, the Westbrooks, regular season guys. Beal, Gilgis Alexander, Jaden Ivey, DeJounte Group H, sorry, he's worth more to us

Than he'd be you Chris Paul, Dame, Middleton Jamal Murray, number 35 LeBron James, number 34 Donovan Mitchell Group G, too young, too cheap, too good Stop calling us, Lamello, Jabari Jalen Green

Garland Chet Palo at 28 Group F If you tell Woj I'll deny it to death But I'm listening Levine

Siakam Gobert Towns Kawhi Zion at 22 Group E Let me save you some time N.O.

Ingram Holiday Brown Bam out of bio at 18 True franchise guys. Number 17, Trey Young, Scotty Barnes, Kate Cunningham, Paul George, Butler, Davis. Number 11, Devin Booker.

Group C, we're not trading them, but make us an offer. Number 10, Kevin Durant. The Untouchables, Group B. Number nine, Evan Mobley, eight, Edwards, seven, Tatum, six, Embiid, Five, Ja Morant. And then group A, completely, utterly, untouchable. Curry, Jokic, Doncic, Giannis. It's our final group.

That's a nice list. I can't believe we have this many good players. I honestly, I can't believe it. I've been working on this open. I called Serity this weekend and I go, you know, I don't want to be prisoner of the moment. I called Cerruti this weekend, and I go, you know, I don't want to be prisoner of the moment. I try to push back against all that stuff. But I started looking at the bad teams and how much I can't wait to watch

the supposed bad teams play this year. And that doesn't happen very often. So I'm actually going to go back and look. We're going to do this for an open, but I want to go back and look at, like, the last young groups that we were excited about. And then usually a lot of times it ends up being super disappointing which is always a nice little reminder but i can't believe how many like every time houston's on in summer league i'm like oh i want to check that out

uh i don't know i don't know what it is i think it's just the depth thing i think you're right i think that's why the expansion thing that you talked about a long time ago uh is making sense because it's a really it just feels like there's a lot of talent and I don't think that is just in the moment man this is my 06 trade value number 40 was a tie between Tayshaun Prince and Karam Butler 39 was Chris Kamen contract 38 I wrote for Chris Kamen name me three other quality setters under 30 go ahead ahead. I dare you. I love to use it. I think you once described Chris Kamen once you were like,

does it look like in his spare time, he stands at the head of your bed in the middle of the night, just waiting for you to wake up to scare you. I said in this, he looks like the axe murderer from an Eli Roth murder movie. 38 was Boris Diaw. 37 was Okafor. 36 was Andrew Bogut. These are guys in the 30s. The 30s this year, 35 this year was LeBron James. In 2006, it was Josh Smith. Ron Artest was number 34.

Two Fs. Josh, number 34 was Ron Artest coming off the melee was number 34. So anyway, that's to my point that the league is super deep. Do you want to do some Vegas stuff before we go?

Yeah, we'll do a drive. And then you got to go to a game. Yeah, I'll make it quicker, which I'm not always great with, but it was just weird to have a little bit of downtime and I just didn't know what to do. And then I was kind of annoyed that I didn't have anything to do. So I was like, well, instead of going to Vegas, because I knew I only want to come here for a few

days and then, you know, like everybody that comes to Vegas, a couple of days, then you pretty much got it. You're ready to go home. And I was sitting around and I went to drive to Palm Springs on Friday. I was like, I've never been to Palm Springs. I'm going to drive there first. And then I'll stay there maybe a night or two.

And then I'll go the long way to Vegas through the Mojave reservation thing. Because I just wanted to see what it was like. I'd never, have you done that drive? Yeah, I've done every version of the Vegas through the Mojave reservation thing. Cause I just want to see what it was like. Uh, I'd never, have you done that drive? Yeah, I've done every version of the Vegas drive. I've enjoyed all of them.

All right, cool. Uh, so I ended up on the phone with somebody and it goes on forever. And then I get on the highway after I get off this phone call, plug back in the GPS deal. And there's an extra hour added to the trip. I went, I was on the four Oh five and's an extra hour added to the trip.

I was on the 405 and I got on it like El Segundo and then I took that Rosecrans exit being like, fuck that, and went back home. The car was packed up and as soon as I plugged in GPS after I got this phone call, I was like, oh,

I missed my window. I'm like, I'm not going. And that's just how I operate. The Vegas ways will do that. There'll be one accident or something will shift. And all of a sudden, 75 minutes has been added to the trip. Yeah. And once you kind of figure out like, oh, no, I could do 215 right now. That's cool.

I'll get there at a decent time. I went, nope, I'm out. I'm like, it's three something hours. And so then I sat around and then I was like, you know what? I'm just going to go at night, a little night drive. So I drove into Palm Springs, got there at night and stayed at this nice little spot. And then I asked the guy, I was like, is this, what are you guys closed? He's like, it's the slowest couple of weeks of the entire year. And he goes, there's nothing going on. Yeah. It's too hot. Nobody wants to go there. I think it was 111 degrees by 10 AM.

So I'm sitting, reading my Teddy Roosevelt book, which I finally, finally got to Riverdale. I don't know why it took me so long. And I was like, this is insanely hot. I was like, I'm out. So the lady was like, do you want to renew? I go, no, I think I'm leaving. So I go, I'm going through the Mojave.

And it's unbelievable, some of those towns. Needles. I forget what other town. I took a couple pictures. I sent them to my dad because he had done the drive too. There's a point in that drive where you figure if your car breaks down, that's it. Nobody's ever going to see you again. There's a couple moments in the different parts of whatever Vegas drive you're taking

where you do wonder, would anyone even know? Yeah, I ended up at the post office there at Amboy. I don't know if that's what it's called, Amboy, California. I was just out there. I think we got a 92304 zip code for anybody who wants to research it. But it's just

it looks like where you would film something in space. I started thinking about that Clint Eastwood, I think it's Good and the Bad and the Ugly, where Tuco makes him just walk from behind the entire time through the desert, and he's just watching Eastwood's face blister. I don't know, Tuco I think is actually Breaking Bad.

Anyway, whatever, I forget that guy's name. One of my favorite movies. But you're going through, I kept getting out, it was up to 117. So I get out, and I'd. It was up to 117. So I get out. I'd be like, what does 117 feel like? And at least it's dry.

I'll give it that. Because those humid New England, Connecticut summers, sometimes people don't realize tobacco grows in this stretch of Connecticut because it's so disgusting how hot and humid it can get. So anyway, get to Vegasgas go right to the gym but yeah it was like 117 at night here in certain spots it was it was hot and then the gym here at the at the hotel is hilarious because it's literally every single front office guy wow you gotta get some tidbits i was pretty locked in bill you. You know, and when you see... It's a legs day.

When you see Sam Presti doing lunges, that's not the time. Fair. Yeah, there's parts of that Vegas drive where you're in the first 10 minutes of a horror movie that's like on Cinemax.

Where it's like, this is how 50 horror movies have started with the drive I'm on right now. It's like, wait, what's going on? Pull over here. It'll be fine. Yeah, why are you getting out of the car? And I was doing that.

I pulled over like three different times. The guy on the porch makes me nervous. No, he's going to be able to tell us how to get to town. There are a few more towns, though, than I would have even thought for stretches. Oh, yeah. Like, there's a couple of stretches that you're right. It's deep in it.

And then I was talking to somebody, and she was like, well, what happens if you break down? I was like, well, you just die. Like, let's just accept it. I'm not what part of the plan. And then I stopped at this one rest area, insert whatever joke you want there. And I got back in the car and because it recycled it, there was no service and now I was just flying blind. And I was like, all right, well, this road makes sense and I feel like I'm going northeast.

Yeah. So, you know, get the old sundials out. No, there's some stretches without cell service or gas for like 35 miles. I think there's one that's 57 miles without any gas.

Yeah, and you'd like better be prepared that was the first thing i did it was the most adult thing i've done in months i was like hey right before you leave palm streets why don't we top her off when we top her off and uh i don't know there's not that much excitement to it um you know it's just it was a really cool experience because i've never done that drive i've done you know there's a the other one you can go from vegas straight to la where you start hitting some of that western or excuse me, eastern California stuff, but that drive up, that

drive up into Nevada before you get to Baker and all that stuff, it's crazy. It's just really cool territory. I don't know how you live there though. I gotta ask that one. Takes a special breed. Like you really have to like the heat.

I'm not a heat guy. I would much rather be super cold than super hot. You don't have to worry about that. There's some, there was some Boston summers, I remember, especially in the 90s. As you said, like 100 in Boston is like 140

in Vegas. Where it's just that the humidity where it's just the humidity. It's just, you can't really do anything. You're just completely suffocating. And then the city, it feels like it's hotter anyway. Okay, so you're going to go to some of these games and then we can listen to your podcast this week. And I'm sure you're going to empty the notebook.

Thanks for helping me with this list. I think we might run the list on the ringer just because after like 12 hours, just in case somebody tries to put some aggregated version run the list on the ringer just because after like 12 hours, just in case somebody tries to put some aggregated version of the list, I would just rather it went to the ringer. So might break the rule on that. This podcast was produced by Kyle Creighton.

Thanks to Steve Cerruti and Dylan Berkey as well. And if you see Russillo, make sure you hug him. He loves hugs. He loves when you touch his head and he loves posing for pictures. Those are the three things I would recommend with Rosillo. Good to see you, Rosillo.

Thanks for another great Sunday run for us. Oh, that's it. That's it. It's over, huh? That's it. Yeah, we'll see you in the football season, but we'll both still be alive and you still have your pod.

Anyway, we had a nice little run. Lots to talk about this year. Unexpected Celtics run. A couple trades. The Go Bear trade is still the most stunning trade. I think that's happened other than Kawhi Paul George. That whole thing. The Westbrook trade didn't work out, which is

surprising. Some content there. Good to see you. Thanks for everything. Thanks. Thanks.