The Bill Simmons Podcast - The NBA's Wackiest Decade, the CP3 Conundrum, Boston Falls Apart, and Fantasy Baseball Sucks With Bryan Curtis and Kevin Hench | The Bill Simmons Podcast

Episode Date: June 19, 2019

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Bryan Curtis to discuss the changes in the NBA from 2010 to 2019, starting with "The Decision," Twitter, media access, player movement, and more (4:10). Then Bill sits down with his old friend and fantasy baseball team co-owner Kevin Hench to discuss Kyrie Irving "ghosting" the Celtics, the Chris Paul trade-request rumor, the Stanley Cup Final, fantasy baseball misery, Patriots 2019-20 predictions, and more (44:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the BS Podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network brought to you by DAZN. They're changing the way you watch baseball with ChangeUp, a brand new live whip around show across the league presented by the MLB and DAZN. Jumping in and out of the best plays as they happen. Get expert analysis from hosts with a fresh personality and new perspective. It's on every night of the week. It's available on any device, smart TVs, tablet, mobile, gaming consoles, almost any device. Getting set up is easy. Download the DAZN app in the Apple or Android app store.

Sign up by creating an account. Start watching across any of your devices. Go to DAZN.com to sign up. That is D-A-Z-N. We're also brought to you by TheRinger.com, the world's greatest website where we have an NBA draft live show.

Oh yeah, you can watch along with the guys. Kevin O'Connor, John Gonzalez, Danny Chow. 715. Go to at ringer or hashtag ringer NBA and they will be reacting to the draft as it happens.

It seems like the draft's going to get pretty funky this year, at least from the fourth pick on. So do that. Watch Big Little Live, our Big Little Live's after show. Hashtag Big Little Live. That is with Mina Kimes from ESPN and Amanda Dobbins from The Ringer. It's presented by Buick.

It's a really good show. Guess who's on this third one, Kyle? Me. I've been booked. Nice. I'm going to be giving parent advice. Oh, I'll tune in. For that one. So that would be Sunday night. And then the Ringer Podcast Network, we have a whole bunch of great stuff going on there as well, including the Ringer MBA show where you can follow up and get all your draft. I mean, there's so much draft stuff going on right now and so much free agency stuff. We're going to talk about it in a second with Brian Curtis from The Ringer. And then coming

up a little bit later, my friend Hench, Kevin Hench, who has a new Netflix series coming out and is also just losing his mind over sports as usual. So we're going to talk about the NBA summer. We're going to talk about why people hate Boston fans. There's going to be some hockey talk. You might get that. And a whole bunch of other stuff too. How much we love Rob Gronkowski, et cetera, et cetera. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're getting to Curtis in one second. So I'm taping this late, late Tuesday afternoon.

There's been some Celtics news. And it seems like Al Horford's not coming back. That seems to be the word on the street. He opted out of his contract. I think the Celtics thought that they're going to re-sign him for a three- or a four-year deal for a little less money that would help them out with the cap. And now it looks like he's leaving.

I don't know where he's going. By the time you hear this, the team might have emerged. But this Celtics season, which started out so promisingly, he's leaving. I don't know where he's going. By the time you hear this, the team might have emerged. But this Celtics season, which started out so promisingly eight months ago with the over-under of 59 and a half wins in Vegas, I thought they were going to win 67. It seemed like they were a heavy, heavy, heavy contender. And not just for the season, but for the next 10 years, they would have been the team, like if I could have any assets from any team, I'd pick Boston. And now less than a year later, you would take New Orleans in that argument. And the Celtics are looking at Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown, Gordon Hayward, some non-lottery picks, and most of the, and some cap space. So if Al Horford leaves, holy mackerel,

I was actually talking to myself into Al Horford could stay. Maybe there's a way we could figure out some crazy Chris Paul trade or Mike Conley. And all of a sudden, you know, Toronto, Kawhi goes to the Clippers, the Sixers fall apart. Milwaukee's still not ready. Maybe we can sneak in there. And now it's like, wow, should we just rebuild? So I don't know what to tell you. We're going to be talking basketball with Hench a little bit later. Right now, Brian Curtis. Brian Curtis is here, one of the co-hosts of the Press Box, which we have expanded to two times a week, talking about all the media stuff

that's going on each week. Turns out you have enough topics for two shows a week. We were worried. Yeah. I wasn't worried. You were worried. How do you just do all these podcasts though? You're good at it. I know, but I'm, it's, I know this is a very first world problem, but it's a lot of talking. It's a lot of talking. It's a lot of talking. You finish one. You're like, okay, I'm back. I got to get another one. One more, more topics. You got to find an overworked Twitter joke for, for Thursday. The thing you realize is that shit keeps happening. It does. You know?

Like, just your stuff concentrates on the media, but we're going to have the debates for the next 18 months, and the media business just in general is both better and worse in a lot of ways. At the same time. Like the Sports Illustrated thing that happened, which I know you're covering on the press box, but they got sold, and now it looks like they've been sold again. Yeah.

But that's not what we're going to talk about. We're going to talk about it is getting very close to free agency period 2019 for the NBA. Yeah. And it struck me that this whole decade now, we have now a full decade. It's time to reflect on some things that happened in the decade. The process of being an NBA fan and of covering the league and how we consume it and what people want has changed as dramatically as anything I can remember.

From 2010 where the decision was kind of the Neil Armstrong of this whole thing. I don't even remember an NBA summer before the decision was kind of the Neil Armstrong of this whole thing. I don't even remember an NBA summer before the decision. These guys were free agents in 2007. We had the Duncan McGrady summer in 2000. And it's not like this hadn't happened before. That was big. Shaq, the Shaq summer to the Lakers.

Yeah, we've had these. But 2010 was when it shifted where I remember writing multiple columns even before he decided and everybody was just kind of waiting. And then when it happened, we got to experience it in Twitter in real time. Dan Gilbert sends the letter out and all of a sudden it was this

kind of three-day event that we dissected. Now we're here in 2019. Is this better or worse? It's more content. It's probably better for a website like The Ringer. Well, that's for sure. That I will concede. Yeah, it gives us tons of stuff to cover.

I just think everything comes out of that moment, the decision. And it's so interesting to read now, to think about it. Yeah. Because it was LeBron and Jim Gray and Mav Carter proving or figuring out the idea that summer free agency in the NBA could be content in a way. Yeah.

That it was going to be and that it could be just as big as almost any of the games that were played. That it could survive on its own. That was, they declared that essentially by doing a TV special. Well, and then we had Wade and Bosh were both getting filmed by crews at the time, thinking

about doing their own documentaries. And it does feel like that was the first summer when players looked at themselves as content. Now, Shaq was doing stuff. Shaq was rapping, and he was in movies. Shaq was rapping and he was in movies. But that was a very old media. Kobe was doing the same. We had guys doing it. This was different. This was like, not only do I do basketball, but I can also be interesting this way. Also, I'm going to be the producer.

Yeah. I'm in charge. It's my special. It's my IP. I think so many things come out of that. Summer. Free agency as content was one big thing. Yeah, I'm in charge. at least in its NBA version, has got to come out of that LeBron moment. Players saying, I'm going to go where I want. I'm going to say I'm going to go where I want, and I don't care what everybody's telling me to do. I know he did care, as it turned out.

It did, but we can trace it back to that. He was the pioneer. He was the Neil Armstrong of saying, you know what? Just because this team drafted me, I want to go play in Miami just because it's my hometown. I don't want to play here anymore. Well, players's my hometown. I don't want to play here anymore. But players had done that. I don't think players had done that. We'd had players leave cities

and go to new teams. This felt different, though. I agree with you that... It loosened up things because sports writerdom, and even after the decision, was like, you can't. How dare you do this? You can't do this. I have one of those pieces. You have one of those pieces. But it was like I feel that everybody kind of got that out of their system in a way.

And it was easier for people to leave after that. See, I think the thing that's gotten... Don't you think so? I do. I think the thing that's gotten lost about the decision that still remains unfair is that he did it to Cleveland. Now Cleveland's won a title. And I think... It's easier now.

Our perception of the fan base, things are happy there. They got Baker Mayfield. Things are good. In 2010, it seemed kind of unnecessarily mean to me. And I still feel that way. It's this fan base that had just gotten kicked in the ball since 1964 in every sport. And this one guy they had who fell to earth, who had a chance to be the next Jordan, basically. And they wrote it and they came so close to winning a title two straight years for him, with him. And then he's like, I'm out of here.

I'm going to Miami. And that was like the adding insult to injury. It's like, I'm going to Miami because I get to live in Florida and it's beautiful there. But it was the TV special part of it that felt like a particular kick in the nuts? Yes. So if he called- Finding out on live TV

that your girlfriend broke up with you when you've had all the baggage that the Cleveland fans had, it's still rough. I mean, but think about how crazy the response was. What was that, Scott Rabb book? Yeah, The Whore of Akron. Yeah, imagine that's not happening now in 2019.

I think he might want that one back. I felt like he should have wanted that one back at the moment. It was a tough title. What's our alternative plan for LeBron? If you think going on TV was a kick in the nuts. I'm trying to get in the insider time machine because I'm like, I got to reorient my brain. So is he called David Aldridge in 2000? Who's your calls? In your mind, if he calls somebody and says says I'm going to Miami. I see. I think you only do that special if you know you're staying. If you really ultimately

know you're staying, that's when you do it. It's a feel good. It's a feel good. Of course everybody was going to get mad. And I think he underestimated really what sports means to fans and this is something like Durant and I have argued about on multiple podcasts.

He's like, why do fans care what I do? It's my life. And I think sometimes the connection gets lost, but that's been one of the things that has been, I think as the decade has gone along, has been a little numbed. Because now we're just used to the movement. The movement makes sense now.

And I think LeBron loosened that up. He did. He was so spectacular. LeBron was the enema that led to... And now we're just, yeah, it just comes out easy now, doesn't it? Yeah. There is a reading of the decision though, that LeBron, a player and his associates said, we're going to do this special. We're going to make ourselves into news in the off season. Yeah. And all of us journalists looked at that and we got mad. But then our solution was that we're just going to put on the specials ourselves in the off season.

So part of it was that he, as you say, you know, left Cleveland and went to Miami. The other part of it was, oh, you don't get to do that. We get to create the,'t get to do that. We get to create the, we get to throw the off-season party. And we're happy with it if we throw the party. But there's something about you throwing the party that we don't like. I think that's somewhere in the subculture.

You're on our territory. I think that's somewhere in the psyche of this. Yeah. Because we're throwing a party now, you and I. Of this daily party. The ringer. We threw one last year. We threw one this summer before. I mean, this has been now,

like to borrow the wrestling analogy, every year the ladder match, the ladders in the ladder match seem to be bigger ladders. Now these are 30-foot ladders we're jumping off of into the summers. The summer is now, guys are now moving in mid-June.

You're not even allowed to allegedly talk to teams until July. We all know Kyrie Irving is going to Brooklyn already. And it's the whole lead-up. You know, the Kyrie started advertising his summer

in December? January? When was that? When he first started sort of making a lot of noises about that? Yeah. It's all a lead-up.

Remember, I wrote for you in 2014, summer of 2014, I think I got the date right, a piece called the Trade Rumor Era. And I said, something is happening

here where the summer is now more interesting than the actual NBA Finals. That was 2014. And what was going on in 2014? I guess LeBron, that was when LeBron flipped. Yeah. And it was right before that happened, but I was like, I remember you and I talking about that and we said, it's just like the media world has changed. That we care about this so much and so much more weirdly in some cases

this finals was actually pretty exciting I think I think people were pretty locked in well it had just unbelievable in-game storylines like Durant and Klay going down in back-to-back games was just one of those things happening would have been a top 10 most memorable finals moment, I think, but for both of them going on. I look at as this decade has gone, if you're just looking at it from a standpoint of what did we not have in 2010 that we have now? I don't think Twitter, Twitter was around, but people were still kind of figuring out it wasn't the same. And we also didn't really know who to follow.

There was a whole world back then where reporters weren't allowed to tweet stuff. They had to like save it for the newspaper. We're still kind of in that horror. And Mark Stein was really handicapped by that for a few years because he had to send stuff into the desk. Woj is at Yahoo just, you know, putting stuff out. We didn't have Woj back then. Woj was this pretty angry guy at Yahoo who had kind of declared war at ESPN and

wrote some really, really harsh pieces about LeBron James and was kind of the renegade pirate. Wouldn't be part of the worldwide leader. He's going to get his scoops his own way. And now nine years later, he's the biggest guy at the worldwide leader for rumors and stuff. Yeah, and he was kind of doing a different thing at that time, if I remember correctly. He was going to get his scoops his own way. And now, nine years later, he's the biggest guy at the World Rad Leader for rumors and stuff. Yeah, and he was kind of doing a different thing at that time, if I remember correctly.

He was trying to write columns, too. He was going to games. Yeah. He was talking to players after games. You know, it was a very, it was like, he was really being kind of a recognizable, what we used to recognize, like an NBA league writer. Yep. Not just now where those guys moved into like, I'm just doing news. I'm just doing items.

That's it. Podcasts have changed. The podcast existed in 2010, but now it's like there's a bunch of basketball podcasts. A lot of people go on each other's podcast. I feel like the media in general is a lot friendlier from a basketball standpoint. Personified by that media basketball game

that had a lot of people in there, but it seems like it's not as much people trying to beat each other and it's not as cutthroat, I don't feel like, as it was last decade. NBA media. Yeah. And it's weird because NBA media in the last decade has become such a much better job in the old sports page hierarchy. Yeah. It was last among major sports, third. It was an easy third place And maybe if you were in like a Southern paper, it was like fourth behind college football. It's true. I mean, football, the end fourth. It may still be fourth, maybe third, but it was definitely fourth at the time. And the idea, so what you're saying is funny though, because so many more people started covering the NBA.

It became a big beat, became what you wanted to cover, but then it became nice. You figured it actually be the opposite way, that everybody would come in and then it would turn into like, you know, Gangs of New York or something like that. other than the other than the way too pleasant i wish there was a lot more backbiting i always and i always i always really respect that opinion because it is way too nice it's way too by the way during the finals like we used to start everybody's like the people of

canada and the people of toronto these are just some great people only on n NBA Twitter. And then, of course, they cheered Durant's injury. Everybody's like, oh, no, what have we done? Toronto's failed us. Guess what? They have people that are like Yankee Red Sox fans in Toronto. I can't believe that. Who have temporary insanity for 10 seconds and cheered Durant's injury and then go, oh, yeah, I feel bad about that.

Yeah, that's another outcome of this decade is the pander culture. Just these carefully constructed tweets to just that nobody is going to go against because you just seem like a dick, but they're also crafted in ways that you're just pandering. Buckner, I know we're not talking about baseball, but Bill Buckner was a Twitter pandering high watermark.

It really was. People would climb it up on the mountain. I'm seizing the high ground. was a Twitter pandering high watermark. It really was. People who had written columns. You were climbing up on the mountain. I'm seizing the high ground. People who had written columns, like making fun of him. And then we're like, oh, he shouldn't have been defined by one play.

It's like, you have this in your archives. Yeah, it was a bit, you know, it's how awful is this? It's the first sentence in his obituary. Would you think it was going to be paragraph six? Right. It's the most famous baseball play ever. I don't,

I don't wish Bill Buckner bad things, but that was a kind of a big play in, in baseball. Yeah. It was a famous play. I remember watching as a kid, that was a, an indelible play.

Anyway, yes, there is this thing in NBA Twitter where, yeah, you are, but it's weird. It's a nice off, isn't it?

It is. Who can, who can understand the, a lot of times it's who can understand the players. It's not nice if you're talking one-on-one to people, isn't it? It is. Who can understand? A lot of times, it's who can understand the players more. It's not nice if you're talking one-on-one to people. Then the fucking knives are out. It's as petty as ever. They're as big an asshole as any other journalist.

It's like, it's all nice on Twitter. That guy, what does he know? He's in so-and-so's pocket. Yeah. I found this finals, and maybe you agree, maybe disagree. After the fact pieces in this finals were pretty incredible. Like, Ramona, right after game six, had all this. She was clearly, like, putting the notebook out,

and she had, you know, like, Michael Thompson and Klay did it pop, did it pop, you know, on the knee and all this stuff. And was it Draymond and, or it was Kevin Durant calling Klay Thompson right after game six. And then that one, Tim McMahon the other day on the Rockets. It just felt like all this stuff felt like everybody was, everybody was prepping their post-season pieces. That's been another trend that has happened over the course of this decade

is the people waiting and then dropping the belated, here's actually everything I know. And it's usually either after the season ends or after the player leaves. That's the now they tell us. That's what I call the now they tell us. Yeah, and that happened last year with all the LeBron pieces.

Remember? And another thing. After he left Cleveland. And another thing. And then this happened. But I know it's going to happen with Kyrie. He's going to leave and somebody's going to write a piece

and there's going to be 10 stories in there and people are like, oh my God. But it's's going to happen with Kyrie. He's going to leave and somebody's going to write a piece and there's going to be 10 stories in there and people are like, oh my God. But it's not going to happen until they know he's not coming back. And the Celtics are like, all right, you can use this. Use that story. That's fine. Use that anecdote.

And let me give you three more while we're at it. Yeah. In the kind of, I guess, last decade, but especially two decades ago, the newspaper people would just write about this stuff in the moment. I think part of the thing that's changed with the Twitter and the retweets and stuff like that is once stuff's out there, if it gets taken the wrong way,

you become like Daenerys on the dragon, just holding on for dear life as this thing you wrote is just getting like annihilated left and right. I think people are really careful now. Yeah. They don't want to be

on the dragon falling off. Nobody wants that. No. Nobody wants that. Very quick break just to talk about our live NBA draft show

7-15 Thursday night at Ringer on our Twitter account or you can do hashtag Ringer NBA Kevin O', or you can do hashtag RingerNBA. Kevin O'Connor, Danny Chow, John Gonzalez, breaking down the draft as it happens.

You can listen to the RingerNBA show that night, the podcast. You can listen to my podcast that night, breaking down everything. And we will have the NBA draft covered. And by the way, if you want to read about the draft, if you want some expert analysis, our NBA draft guide is just fantastic and has been all over this draft in a lot of different ways.

And some of the opinions have been borne out, I think, as we get closer and closer to the draft or where we have guys ranked and things like that. So make sure you check that out. Spend the NBA draft with us at Ringer. All right, back to Curtis. It feels like we have more writers who have access to athletes and can find out stuff that aren't in the same cities as those athletes. And I think that's because of DM and text. And that's a big change in the last decade. I feel that would have worked the same way. Yeah. Like Mark Stein, when he was covering, and I've talked about this with him on the podcast,

he's covering the Mavericks and Nash and Dirk falling to his lap, right? He's the guy for those two guys. He's there with them all the time. He has the relationship with them. Nobody else was going to trump that. But now in 2019, somebody else could really easily have a relationship with those guys.

Absolutely. Send them a DM. Hey man, liked your piece. And I also feel. And you see them like once a year when they come to your city, maybe. If you're living in San Francisco, LA, wherever you are.

Hey buddy. And then I think the other part with that is I think people are a lot more hesitant to just annihilate somebody in a piece. Because the athlete's going to see it. And it's the old thing with the reporters, with the internet writers, their first wave, they don't come in the locker room.

They don't have to face these guys. Now, in a weird way, everybody has to face these guys because they will fire back. If you read a piece about LeBron and you're crushing him, he could kind of fire back and unleash the LeBron hive on you. And now you're feeling the dragon flames a little bit. KD might be the better example here. Yeah, you're right. But yeah, that's true.

And I think that's kind of a funny change in the last decade. Because it seemed like everybody was going to be at home. Nobody would have any accountability. I may have heard Dan Shaughnessy just rattling something off about this the other day. I can't remember. Somewhere in some show. Somewhere in local cable hell was still mad about this. I love it.

It's like being insulted by a waiter at Papa Gino's in Waltham. It's like, hey, the waiter at Papa Gino's in Waltham was talking about it. I don't care. Are we still talking about this? Yeah. But I think that was the argument in 2009, 2010. Everybody's going to be home blogging. There'll be no accountability.

Right. Everybody's just going to be mean. But now the player gets a Twitter account. And there is accountability of a sort. Also, I feel just like things turn toward reporting. And maybe that should be in air quotes. But this became like, I feel it just like things turn toward reporting, and maybe that should be in air quotes, but this became like, I think if you'd looked at the sports media

2009, 2010, you would have thought it's going to really swing toward sit home and write great shit. But it actually swung another way. It swung toward insiderdom a little bit. It swung toward Zach Lowe kind of pieces. It swung toward, and maybe that's just because those guys were so big

and so good. Well, I remember at Grantland figuring, we had Zach, right, as he was really coming into his own. But the last piece for him was the connections.

And, you know, we would just send him to All-Star Weekend and tell him not to write. Like, we just wanted him to meet as many people as possible. And now he's at the point

where he can go to anybody, you know, and get whatever quote he needs. And that took a whole decade for him to be able to get there. But you read some of the stuff he wrote in the finals. I thought he did some really good stuff. And he's just like, yeah, I talked to Clay Thompson about this. And he said this. And that's the last piece.

And that's the part where, you know, especially with younger people, and we have a lot of young people here, it's the people that could have talked to three people for a story, but they talked to nine or could have just talked to these two people and that's it. But instead they just said, I'm going to call these other eight or I'm going to go up to these other six in the locker room. Those are always the ones that are going to have better stories, I think. Absolutely. But it's funny how many people

don't do that. It's also that we should probably say the insider became the biggest job in sports writing in the last 10 years. And that is different. I don't think we would have said that

in summer of 2010 in the same way. I don't think you would have said the NBA insider would be the most kind of like the vaunted job in the NBA. I think you would have said...

Well, it's funny how in baseball they hired Jeff Bessan to basically be baseball woosh, and they were pretty transparent about it. They were like, we now want a baseball woosh. They were at the car dealership trying to- They were like, I'm really enjoying my Porsche. I would like another fast car. What else you got?

What else do you have that has a lot of horsepower? We have a Jeff Passan. He's got some scoops. But that's the template. Yeah. And I think that was created in the last decade. Or it was, you know, those got Peter Vestas around for a long time. But that job became the big job in the last decade in sports writing.

Like the job where you get the big ESPN deal or the big Yahoo deal. Right. Where you have your own show. You have to be able to go on TV. You have to be able to go on TV. You have to be able to go on TV, but you're the guy. And that was, I don't,

I think if we got in the time machine and went back to summer 2010, I don't think that would be the case. In the same way. True. I think the multimedia aspect of these guys has been another thing that changed because they're getting a lot of reps,

you know? Like I see somebody like Windhorse. Windhorse is good on TV. He is. And it took, you know, most of the decade for him to get there, but he's had a lot of TV reps and a lot of podcast reps,

and now he just seems super comfortable. There's all these different ways to get reps now, especially on podcasts. I think podcasts have really helped a lot of people in that respect. But I would say my big takeaway, it's more fun now. Yes. Oh, yeah. I'm nostalgic for, and look, I'm part of this too.

Like I've done a bunch of podcasts with players. I'm a little nostalgic for the distance that used to exist between the media and players because I think that territory now is becoming more and more blurred the access is almost too good now for people and it's both too good but it's not good enough

somebody can get to Clay Thompson they might not be able to use it but they can at least Clay Thompson might know who they are does that make sense? there's not as much mystery to me as I think there used to be. Kawhi has mystery. Kawhi has shut everybody out, and that's actually kind of fun.

I wish there was more mystery, I guess, in general with the stars. I feel like we know too much about all of them. Yeah, there's a lot of coziness and a lot of mystery, but they're more powerful now. They are. And the media is weaker than it, than it was in those days. I think, I think it's fair to say comparable to the players anyway, you know, cause they have their own Twitter accounts, they have their own brands, they have their own thing. They make lots and lots more money. And so they need us less. So it almost feels like that if you detach or wrote the, you know, roasted them, like them like you're talking about, they would just be like, all right, I'm done with you. I don't need you anymore.

All right, quick episode of the re-readables. Oh. I wrote this in 2008. The summer of 2010 quickly turned into a polarizing topic since it's two years away, and some fans are rightly making the, quote, can't we just concentrate on this season? And quote, how is this good for a professional sport that a team is throwing away two solid seasons for something that might happen? My counter, the NBA's off-court subplots in many ways have become just as fun as anything happening on the court. Because of the internet, sports radio, team blogs, better team blogs, better information

guys, everything else. The whole trade draft for Asian market has practically evolved into its own sport to follow. We love reading mock drafts, making up fake trades, arguing about GM mistakes, discussing the latest moves and everything else. That's become part of being a Hoops fan. The summer of 2010, parentheses, it sounds like a blockbuster movie, ties everything we love about that goofy underbelly into one neat package. And then I keep going. So I wrote that in 2008. You were team blogs away from a perfect game. I really was. It was there. That was the double off the wall. So for some reason, 2008, I think might've been the actual starting point. And I think it was because that was when the LeBron to the Knicks stuff started. And that was the first time we were just going way in the future, like, hey, this might happen.

And people were talking about it and radio hosts were going, oh, cool. When I talk about this, people call and they want to be on my show. So really, this has been an 11-year odyssey. But I think it crystallized in 2010. And you were excited as a writer and basketball fan. It seemed like I was excited right then. As a writer and a basketball fan, because you love that. I did.

I think for you. I still love it. The season wasn't enough for you. No. You had more capacity for basketball. And you figured that maybe fans would also have more capacity for basketball. I don't know if I was right in 2008, but I think that's turned out to be right. But I'll tell you this though.

I remember when I was in Countdown, I really wanted, and back in like 2013 when I had a lot of sway at that point, and I really thought we should have a daily show. Like we could do a daily NBA show. I sent like a mock thing for it. And like, here's what it would look like. Half hour, you have all these NBA people should do it either in LA or New York where you can get the whatevers. And their attitude was always, there's no way. It's not a 12 month sport. They would have it. And I'd be like, but you have NFL live on. Obviously

it's like, yeah, but that's the NFL. Nobody follows the NBA like this. And I was like, I actually think you're, I think, I don't think you're right. I feel like the NBA is heading this way. But now you look six years later. I mean, I never expected what's happened to happen. It's a 365-day sport. And it's even in those 365 days, things are moving four times in the day.

Like just today, we're taping this on a Tuesday. The Chris Paul story happened. Yep. The Kyrie ghosted the Celtics happened. Yep. And then Al Horford apparently might not come back to the Celtics. Huge. All of that happened in three hours.

But people like it. And Kyrie to Los Angeles, was that today? Was that tweet today? Kyrie's focusing on Los Angeles? I pray that happens. Oh, no, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Kawhi.

I'm sorry. On the Clippers. Yeah. Kawhi on the Clippers. That was also today. That was kind of a mini. People knew that one. But that was kind of a moment today.

Yeah. Yeah. My question for you is, did we, we the media, create space in fans' brains for this stuff? Did we just convince people collectively, you should be interested in this? This is going to be great. This whole basketball season you didn't know existed will be really, really fun? No. Here's my theory.

Tell me if I'm right. I think it's a combination of phones and Twitter and just how we get entertainment value out of our phones. Where it's like people, you'd be in Starbucks and you just look around, everybody's looking at their phones. Something happened? Something happened? Hey, I wonder if anything happened. Something happened?

I'm going to check again. Oh, I got a text. Oh, it's my mom. Something happened? Something happened? Hey, I wonder if anything happened. Something happened? I'm going to check again. Oh, I got a text. Oh, it's my mom. Something happened? Whoa, whoa, whoa. And that's just kind of what we do with our phones. And the NBA, like just the rumor mill fits into that perfectly,

especially like a month like right now. I'm checking my phone constantly. I don't know what's going to happen. So you think of all the things that we've had, like Twitter, Slack, Instagram stories, and then these basketball players are in our lives all the time. We follow them on all these different platforms

and they're just the part of our day. So just, I feel like the technology has made it happen, not the media. It was the league evolving. We're talking about the decision, players evolving, and then technology evolving at the same time you agree with that thesis i think that's right yeah and the media but the media being there

ready and willing to to dive in with them well and having space to do it because it's like you know the fact that espn is in on the nba during this period is big. Right. In this timeline. Because if they didn't have the NBA rights, if it was still the NBA on NBC. Or Fox. Or Fox. You know, maybe ESPN isn't diving in with both feet in quite the same way. And maybe the whole thing still happens,

but it's just a little more muted or something like that. Maybe we get like 70% of the NBA offseason. I don't know. I think ESPN being mixed up in it, though, is probably important. And I also think basketball, I think ESPN being mixed up in it, though, is probably important. And I also think basketball, I've talked about

this a million times, but the basketball and hip-hop cultures and all the personalities in them, the way they just collide constantly, like personified by Drake in Toronto in 2019. That's the apex of this. Or the Nadir, but yes. One or the other. Or maybe both.

But that's just kind of culture now. And I think hip hop is the dominant form of music we have. And basketball isn't the dominant rating sport. But I think it's become the day-to-day most kind of interesting. And the players and all that stuff. So it just seems like everything's headed a certain way. I thought it was crazy that what are the Lakers going to do was like a major storyline during the finals.

Absolutely. That part is weird to me, that people get distracted from when the championship is being decided. Seems like the championship should always be the most important part of whatever we're doing. But not this time. The power of the Lakers to just, as terrible and irrelevant as they've

been, and we're sitting here in LA, to cut through constantly is amazing. How much Lakers content has there been this year? Any year the Lakers miss the playoffs? I remember the first year I did Countdown, they would make us lead with the Lakers, and I would just fucking fly off the handle. I remember the first year I did countdown, they would make us lead with the Lakers, and I would just like fucking

fly off the handle. I was like, what the fuck? They're not even relevant. What are we doing? And it was just like, what if you flip that around and made the Lakers the A-buck? And it was always like, what's wrong with the Lakers? Is Kobe turning it around? All these like generic Laker topics. How many of those have we read this year? How many, what's wrong with the Lakers? Is Kobe turning it around? All these like generic Laker topics.

How many of those have we read this year? How many, what's wrong with the Lakers? And we've had all these moments. Yeah. I mean, Magic obviously quitting being the just most insane, but now they're back. By the way, they're back in the A block. You talked about that in the press box

when Steve and A had magic on same day that that piece that piece went out that was not flattering to magic. No. And then Stephen A basically I guess criticized

the piece while also saying what a good reporter the guy was. Yeah, it was very, he mocked it, I would say. He mocked it, but also was telling us what a good reporter Baxter Holmes was, and I didn't really understand what was going on. And then Magic was mocking it, but was also

calling people... Had just called people a backstabber. I didn't know what the hell was going on. That was a really weird moment for ESPN, I felt like. It really was. There is a scenario where you say magic either you're gonna talk to baxter holmes who's trying to get a hold of you for this piece and we'd love to talk to you or you can go on are you or you can't go on count on with steven a and state your case and call baxter wrong you have to do one or the other

we're you know espn is calling you to talk to this story. But obviously, there were two people calling him, and those are just two completely separate entities. That felt like a story that happens this decade and not last decade. No way. Yeah. I just can't imagine what the last decade version of it would be. I think that's the other thing. Stephen A is probably his own category in this last 10 years. Yeah, Stephen, you're right. He is because he's beloved. In last decade, I felt like he basically got driven off of ESPN because so many people were against him. I don't think we would have called Stephen A the most powerful person at ESPN in 2010.

No. And now is there any question for you know, for on-air talent? No. That he is. I always judge that stuff by, can so-and-so get away with this? And it seems like he can get away with the most right now. Get away with not, not confusing players,

not knowing players' names on television. I certainly was able to get away with stuff for a while and then it, it kind of turned. Also the just public reaction to Stephen A, I just love it. It swung, it swung all over the place. We were kind of in the, oh, you know, Also the just public reaction to Stephen A. I just love it. It swung all over the

place. We were kind of in the, oh, you know, we all kind of really love Stephen A. He's committed to the bit. He's all in. And then he kind of lights up Baxter a little bit and kind of a lot of mistakes and everybody's kind of in the magic thing and everybody's kind of swinging the other way. It's like, oh, wait, we don't like

Stephen A. Yeah. As a society. I feel like he's in. I think he's in. You think he's still in? I think he's in that Mike and the Mad Dog in New York 12 years ago where people just like them and when they screw up, people get mad, but then they forgive them. It's part

of the charm. He's just, instead of New York, it's the entire nation. Just like Woj, he also created a new job, which is not only am I the opinion guy on TV, but I actually talk to a lot of players. I still have enough contacts in the NBA. Now, maybe they're people like Magic, but I still am plugged into the NBA

in a big way. So I'm kind of half opinion guy and half like conduit of information. Right. And I think that's, I mean, what would we have pointed out like that 10 years ago? I have no idea. The other thing that's happened, mean, what would we have pointed out like that 10 years ago? I have no idea.

The other thing that's happened, and then we'll wrap it up, is the, it's the, I have a piece to be written about me. And I'm going to decide who writes it and where it's going to go. And I'm going to plan this out very carefully. Like, I'm Jake Gyllenhaal with a big movie coming out. That did not exist 10 years ago. One of the strangest developments in my lifetime. You called it the celebrity journalism-ication of the NBA. Yeah. We just saw it with Rich Paul in Sports Illustrated recently.

The sports profile became the Hollywood profile. Hey, Rich, we can get you the cover, right? This piece. And they're know, they're going to mention a couple of things, but it won't be that bad. And go for it. And in a lot of cases, you know, the question is now, can we get somebody who from the agency that represents the player, can we find a journalist who's also represented by that agency to maybe write the profile? Wouldn't that be interesting? You're saying that happens. I don't know. I don't know.

You know, you never know about these things. But what if they were interested in, you had a client from insert major agency and you had a journalist who was profiling the client from insert major agency. Maybe team those two up. Yeah. I mean, that might be nice. But I think those machinations were pretty unknown to the sports profile until fairly recently. They were always Hollywood. It was always sort of highly brokered. And I think sports profiles became really brokered. And now we might be kind of like post-profile.

I mean, how many of these are, you know, how many- But they had the one about Blake Griffin. I think it was SI. Not to keep picking on SI, but that was one of the Blake Griffin, and it's been a paragraph on him punching the equipment manager. It was like this big, finally Blake Griffin's

going to talk, and it's like, and then after he punched the equipment manager, it's like, wait, can we go back to the part where he broke his hand and ruined their season punching the equipment manager? Isn't that one of the great sports profile genres, so-and-so is happy in exile? Yeah. Remember when we were kids and Tony Dorsett in the Broncos jersey

was on the front of SI? Happy to be a Bronco. No, you're not. No, you're not. Happy in exile is like one of my favorite sports pieces. And it's never true.

You think he doesn't want to be playing in Los Angeles? Come on. There was that Eric Dickerson on the Indianapolis Colts. That was a staple Sports Illustrated cover. Yeah.

New guy, new team. Happy to be here. New team. Yeah. Yeah. New guy, new team. Happy to be here. New team. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think we hit everything for the decade, right? We did 10 years.

Is there any other thing we missed? I don't think so. I'm sure there is. They still can't figure out countdown. It's the summer. Now the countdown cast is in jeopardy again was there a news item about that

I must have missed it never read the piece about maybe it's the producers or the way that they're doing the show and maybe we should

rethink that versus just musical chairs with the hosts you're throwing out ideas here I don't know does it have to be musical chairs with hosts

and the TNT show still unassailable I just it just rolls along with hoes? And the TNT show is still unassailable. I just, it just rolls along. I mean, that's just been, that's been one of the craziest success stories

in sports media. And you just, it just, to me it's that and I know you don't pay as much attention, but it's that and the college football

show on ESPN. Those things are just, people have decided they like those shows. It's just an 18-wheeler going down the road and they like, and't pay as much attention, but it's that and the college football show on ESPN. Those things are just... People have decided they like those shows. It's just an 18-wheeler going down the road. And it's all about people, right? It's not about information. Those shows do occasionally have... College game day, the signs, I feel like, are a big part of it.

Yeah, the crowd. The energy of the crowd, I think, really helps it. But I think people at some level, those shows, they just decide they like the host. And they decide they think the hosts like each other. That's important. That the hosts like each other and that they have a relationship that a person sitting at home can understand. Right. And that, that is kind of the key to television at some level. That's Kyle and I have that. Yeah. Oh my God.

The vibe in here is almost overwhelming. The press box. You can hear Brian Curtis talk about all this stuff and a lot, a lot more quality topics with David Shoemaker, your lifelong friend. Now you're united. Speaking of vibes. He left us. He's in New York, but you still get to talk to him twice a week

about all kinds of stuff. That's the best part of my week, minus the wife and kids stuff. Kyle, do your 10-second Press Box plug. I can't wait to hear what's going on with these debates because I'm definitely not going to be able to watch them. Kyle said it makes me smarter

was Kyle's senior yearbook quote about the press box. Oh my God. That's the nicest thing anybody's ever said about us. All right. Brian Curtis, thank you. See you, Bill. All right. Before we get to my buddy Hench, sometimes one change can make all the difference in your confidence. HairClub knows this. That's why they're inviting you to see how getting the most out of your hair can change your life. HairClub is the leader in total hair solutions

with a legacy of success for over 40 years, whether you're looking to revitalize the growth of your hair or learn more about the latest proven methods for hair replacement and restoration. HairClub's professionally trained stylists, hair health experts, and consultants will craft a personalized solution. I know dudes in my life who've experienced hair loss and are conflicted about it. And some decide to shave their heads or looking for any solution whatsoever. HairClub is about as good of a solution as you're going to get. HairClub.com slash Simmons. Go there today.

Get a free hair and health and scalp analysis for new customers. Enjoy a $250 savings on any qualifying HairClub service after your initial consultation. That's HairClub.com slash Simmons for a free hair health and scalp analysis and a $250 savings on any qualifying hair club service after your initial consultation. Hairclub.com slash Simmons. All right, we're going to bring in Hench. And we talk about Chris Paul

in this part of the interview, and there have been reports that he has for a trade. Daryl Morey, a friend of the program, has now gone on the record repeatedly saying Chris Paul has not asked for a trade. So who the hell knows what's happening with that behind the scenes. We did talk about that.

And my apologies in advance to Chris Paul because it really goes after him. All right, here it is. All right, my buddy Kevin Hench is here. Throughout the summer, we're going to be counting down our 125 favorite Patriots wins. And getting 71 wrong, apparently. That was the most despised podcast I've ever put out. People were just so angered, but a lot of people loved it too. You guys have won so many Super Bowls, you forget what year you won them.

Hey, man, it's hard. It's hard. The joy of six. When you get to six Super Bowl seasons, stuff starts blending in. Let's start with basketball because one of our least favorite players is in the news. I'm not talking about him as a person, just the player himself.

It's been a frustrating run for Mr. Chris Paul. All this stuff in Houston today or coming out of Houston today that him and James Harden, they weren't talking the last couple months. He's demanded a trade, which he's already said wasn't true. The problem is, I looked at his contract again. I'd forgotten how horrific it was.

$38 million next year. Oh! Hold on, I'm not done. $41 million the year after. And then the player option for $44 million. That sounds about right for a 510 off guard who can't defend anybody that sounds good i should warn people who haven't heard hench in a while hench is coming in hot be prepared cp3 is going to go into the hall as possibly the most overrated

player no come on no oh my god come on oh my Oh, my God. When he was favored on the Clippers against the Thunder and Rockets, those playoff flameouts, spectacular. By the way, how can you have a feud with James Harden? He's an MVP. You're like, at this point, a seventh man. No, come on. He's like a fourth man. Do you remember that sequence when they lost to the depleted Warriors?

Yeah. And McKinney got like three offensive rebounds. It was this crazy sequence where the Warriors kept missing and kept getting offensive rebounds. And every guy who got the offensive rebound was Chris Paul's responsibility. And Chris Paul was playing zone in the middle of the lane taking like a 10 second break from complaining about

the officiating, the other thing he does so well. Wait, are you sure that wasn't Kyrie Irving in the Bucs series? Are you getting your small play cards mixed up? Good riddance. So to put a bow... Chris Paul, the second best part of the State Farm commercials.

Oscar Nunez, who you can see on Mr. Iglesias. Oh yeah, your new Netflix show. On Friday is the best part of those guys. I know, I know. It was a nice transition. The Chris Paul thing. I don't remember a situation like this before with somebody who wasn't injured. Because you've had people who are like John Wong.

Oh, he's injured. What are they going to do? Well, they can't do anything. You can't trade him. Here's Chris Paul, who is still one of the best, I don't know, 50 players in the league, maybe. He's 34, turns 35 next year. If anyone in the world could name 50 players

off the top of his head that he'd rather have, it would be you. You could rattle off. I probably could. If anyone in the world could name 50 players off the top of his head that he'd rather have, it would be you. You could rattle off. I probably could. If you went roster by roster, you'd get to 80 before you'd want Chris Paul.

Yeah, maybe. He's old, he's short, he doesn't defend, and he complains. Otherwise, I love the guy. They came relatively close to beating the Warriors two years in a row.

He was the second best player on those teams. How? Are we sure he's not becoming underrated because of the contract now? I mean, obviously, we were texting when Durant went down. Yeah. And I was certain the Rockets were going to win. They were going to win that game for sure and then close them out. And it was like, wow.

Wow, you guys are just – there's something wrong with that team. And I'm of the mind that a lot of it is Chris Paul. But the other thing, philosophically, by the way, I love it when D'Antoni gets coach of the month. Like, what does he do? Hey, James, dribble for 20 seconds and then do something.

But I do think, and this gets to the Kyrie against the bucks too. There's something so totally demoralizing about one guy occupying the ball for 15 to 20 seconds during every possession that your other guys just don't come through when you need them. Well, and that's, it seems like that's when the, the dissension started piecing together the different reports.

They, they start off badly. Chris Paul gets hurt. It becomes the James Harden show, and he goes on that incredible run. And then Chris Paul comes back for January. And I think around then is when Chris Paul had, I think, relatively rightful attitude of, wait, we're not really going to play like this the rest of the season, right? Well, it's got to be hard.

This isn't just going to be our whole offense, is it? Try to imagine how old Chris Paul was when he became the ball-dominant player on his P.E.T. Like, he was five. He's been the ball-dominant player for three decades. And now it's like, hey, you and P.J. Tucker are going to go spot up. Really, I've got a pretty good handle.

Could I, maybe I could take a little pressure off this guy. Maybe I could kick it to him. Well, and then the flip side is, and this was happening with Westbrook too, when Harden, Westbrook, the ball dominant guy, when they're not involved in the play, when it's like after five in a row, like, all right, I'll let you guys have one.

And then they're just not doing anything, 40 feet for the basket. Randy Moss, when he let you guys have one. And then they're just not doing anything. 40 feet for the basket. Randy Moss when he's not the primary receiver. He's just kind of running eight yards and stopping. So it does give me faith as somebody who loves basketball and has loved it my whole life, as have you. Somebody who-

Love, love, love it. You are a wonderful pickup basketball player, Kevin Hedge, by the way. It does give me faith that this whole strategy- The older I get, the better I was. Everyone stand around and watch me. This offense is just going to work. Actually, it doesn't work.

I feel reinvigorated. I mean, going back to the Bird-Dominique showdowns, like, you know, those were, like, there were times where we're like, we can't stop this guy. We're going to lose this series. And then it's like, oh, Randy Whitman's going to miss when he has to take that one shot in the fourth quarter because he hasn't touched

the ball as opposed to Bird, who kept everyone involved while he was dropping 40 on you. Yeah. You go back and you look at the usage rates of the guys in the 80s compared to the guys now are from like 32% to 39% when you get to the Westbrook Hard thing. And Bird's like in the 20s. Like Bird has years where he's like 22, 23, same with Magic, because they never would have wanted to be in a situation where they're taking 30 shots in a game. Like that would have been a disaster.

Durant, to his credit, always doesn't want to play. I think he's one of the few modern guys that is like, no, that'd be crazy if I took 31 shots tonight. So, Kyrie, what were you thinking when he came back and it was happening?

It was like, oh, he's dropping threes and they're the unbeatable team again. It's going to happen. We've had some distance with it now. So we saw him warm up. He was dunking.

He came out, he had his first three and his second three and looked pretty agile. And it was like, oh, maybe the calf did heal. But then they kept, when they kept playing him, I felt like it was a red flag in the moment. I didn't really understand what, where we went from this guy couldn't play for a month to there's no minute restrictions today. I know that's definitely. Because we were watching the hockey

and, you know, with hockey, they never tell you who's injured until after the season. And then it's like, you knew Char had a broken jaw because he had to wear a special mask for it. But then the series went and Bergeron's like, yeah, I pulled my grin three rounds ago.

And there's just a- No, Bergeron had a punctured lung in 2013. And pasta was like, yeah, my thumb's fucked up and I couldn't tell anyone. My thumb was amputated in December. We're not allowed to say anything. There is this article and it was like eight Bruins injuries. But with basketball, you know everything

that's wrong with the guys. And with Duran, it was a calf. The ice pack seemed low, but it was like. And with Duran, it was a calf. The ice pack seemed low, but it was like, all right, I guess it was a calf. And then all of a sudden he gets hurt again.

Well, the non-contact injury, when it happened, we were texting each other, that's that. And they were like, day to day? Like,

what are you talking about? Yeah, when you're glancing backwards at your leg, it's never a good sign. It's also a fear for all guys after they turn like about 38 when you still play sports that it's never a good sign. It's also a fear for all guys after they turn like about

38 when you still play sports that it's going to be you. I've been around several of them and it hasn't been me yet. I'm trying to slow down to the point where it can't happen. There's a certain velocity where you're, if you're slow enough. Well, maybe

the Rockets should sign you. Spot up threes, baby. If you want me to stand, happy to stand in the short corner. Three-point lead. So back to Chris Paul for a second. I just don't know what they do. And what makes the situation so unique is they were pretty close

to making the finals two straight years here. You know, and the Warriors are now out of the equation. We can talk about the Lakers in a second, what the hell they gonna do but this still is like the the nucleus of a team that has been really super successful and I don't know what the move is for them like could they could trade for Andrew Wiggins right that's as bad of a contract as Chris Paul is seventh in the conference like the move is down oh so you just think this is done? I think the window's closed. Yeah. You think the window's closed? On the Rockets.

Yeah. And D'Antoni. I don't think it works. I just don't think it works. I don't know. It's just too demoralizing. Do you agree with that? Russo and I talk on the pod about the difference in regular season basketball and playoff basketball

and how it's become more pronounced every year in these like kind of not gimmicks, but these, these things that work in January just are not going to work in May as well. It's a weird thing. And really in most sports where, you know, yes, everybody's trying in the regular season. I mean, you know, it's not, it isn't like the Bob McAdoo days, guys are actually not trying for most of the game. Like, guys do try, but in both basketball and hockey, for sure, which I think was part

of the Pasternak-Marshawn dilemma, was like, when everybody takes it to that next level and there's no space, you have no time because you're getting closed out. I mean, in the NHL playoffs, every time Marshawn Derpasternak made a drop pass, it was intercepted by a back-checking forward who back-checks in the playoffs.

Who was going 100 miles an hour. you know it didn't really work um it was utah right that started playing behind harden but it was an interesting philosophy yeah actually get behind him the you know we grow up learning stay between your man in the basket but the three-pointer has changed it to the point we're better off making him drive into that two-point floater area um i say, I don't like a lot of this. I don't either. So that's what makes me happy. It's self-destructing. I texted you probably in November.

I don't want to watch a league where Brook Lopez is shooting 12 three-pointers in a game. Well, and then in a game six when they actually need him to post up and he has mismatches, he's just conditioned to shoot 25 footers. This guy is one of like the eight best low post guys we probably have right now. The same thing with how Toronto used Marc Gasol.

Every once in a while, they'd be like, oh yeah, you can get a three foot jump hook when you want. I'd rather stay out here. It's more fun. I'm good. It is like, I mean, not to criticize them. They would. Cause when you play pickup at the gym, you're like, Hey, we got the big guy.

And then you're like, oh, he's never going to go inside the three-point line. Hey, buddy, could you go rebound? It'd be great if you'd go rebound. Maybe like two rebounds. Yeah, so I don't know what happens with Houston, but I don't know what happens with the league. And the more I look at this stuff, I mean, I made this list of free agents today just trying to figure out which ones I liked. And it's like 60 dudes that could be in a playoff rotation. And all these teams have cap space.

And there's a bunch of stars. And I don't know who the point guards are for 19 teams. And you got guys like D'Angelo Russell, who I really like, who's only 23 next year, who made the all-star team and can finish games. I don't know what team he's going to be on. I wouldn't mind if it was the Boston Celtics. Yeah, I wouldn't really mind either. Come to Boston, D'Angelo. We don't care about your

Snapchat. Let me ask you this because the ball dominance does seem to, when you think about what you need, you're like, well, who's going to be running the offense? And watching the Lakers suck last year, which was awesome. It was just so, it was so fun.

But you're why, I really am torn because I love LeBron. Like a guy has just completely grown on me. I just think he's an amazing institution. He probably, I probably am going to end up letting go of my, no one's ever been better than Jordan. No one's ever been better than Jordan. No one's ever been better than Jordan.

No one will ever be Jordan. But watching him try to coach guys up on the court, trying to make guys better during the course of play, like trying to get guys shots, he does want to have the ball and should because he's such a great passer. So when I'm thinking about a point guard for that team, it's like, well,

you want a point guard who is not a point guard, essentially, who can shoot. It's like Drew Holiday. Yeah. That's like the perfect guy. Exactly. But I was thinking about, because LeBron obviously is hard to play as hard as he usually plays at times last year on that team. But there are so many miles on those tires.

It's crazy. And so as I see the AD thing go down, I'm like, are we going to see some slippage for LeBron? Like, is LeBron a good, is he a plus defender at this point in his career? I mean, I think he could be in a playoff series, but. But it's funny, it's funny you bring this up because I was actually looking at the minutes. I think the Laker fans, of course, now it's like them against the world. They did the same thing with Kobe post-trial where it's just like, that's our guy. Fuck everybody else. I get it because we

did the same thing with the Patriots. I get it. I admire it. They are like, anybody who hates this trade is crazy. We have two of the best 10 players in the league. We should be the favorites. We'll figure this out. They're discounting that they have probably the worst front office in the league, and they still have five spots to fill. The thing that everybody's discounting is the minutes.

And I don't think we can talk about it enough. I made this, so I looked up on basketball reference. Dirk has played the most minutes, but he's retiring. LeBron has played more minutes than anybody in the league regular season. He is the active leader over guys like Vince Carter, Joe Johnson, Pau Gasol, Jamal Crawford. It's nuts. Tony Parker, Carmelo, Iguodala. He's played 46,000 minutes. They're super physical minutes. He's involved in everything.

He doesn't take possessions off and stand. He's not a spot-up shooter who just can walk around. And I know he sleeps in a hyperbaric chamber or something, but at some point, I just feel like it's going to affect him. Well, wait, I'm not done. Because you go to the playoff minutes, and he's the only guy ever who's

played more than 8,000 minutes in the playoffs and 9,000 and 10,000, because he's at 10,049. The next guy is Tony Parker at 77,58. Wade's at 66. This is just active. So he's played combined already over 56,000 minutes. And if you go all time, it's basically five guys ever. It's, you know, Karl Malone played almost 55,000 minutes and 8,000 minutes in the playoffs.

If you're just talking about guys, if you add up the two, it's 60,000 minutes. So maybe we saw the first sign last year that this is what's going to happen. This is Kareem, it's Karl Malone, 60,000 minute guys. Now, I will say this. It's just not, it's Kareem

and Karl Malone, that's it. As I teeter on the verge of relenting and calling LeBron the co-greatest player of all time. I will never let you do that. We've been fantasy baseball partners for too long. This is part of why I'm prepared to do it. LeBron and Dwayne

Wade's kids are going to my daughter's school next year at Sierra Canyon. So if I'm hanging in the bleachers with LeBron, I want to be on the record as going, Simmons is a dick. He doesn't know what he's talking about. You're obviously the greatest player.

You're the greatest player of all time. You know, you didn't have Pippen, whose kid also goes to my daughter's school. I didn't know, by the way, when Sophie got accepted to Sierra Canyon that I was going to the Marvin Bagley, Kenyon Martin Jr. Bron Bron hoop factory. I'm going to be going to high school basketball games next year. I'm delighted.

That team, the championship game was on last year on like the local station. Yeah, I know, it was on TV. And they were up by 20 and they had their bench in and their bench was dunking and doing alley-oops. These were like ninth and 10th best. Beautiful thing. And I'm quite confident after watching that terrible NCAA tournament this year that the Sierra Canyon Trailblazers team next year

will be better than the college champion. So with the minutes thing, I just think, does he have two more elite years in him? I'm not sure. Can he be a top five guy anymore for a regular season? Probably not. Could he be in the playoffs?

Yes. Could it happen next year? Probably. Two years, now we're pushing it. To expect this to be more than two years, I think with the minutes, you know, we root for Tom Brady. Tom Brady is doing stuff

we never thought a QB would do, but they also changed the rules as he was playing. I feel like basketball has gotten harder and being a football QB has gotten actually easier. Well, also his pliability, like there are things that his position allow him to do in his regimen. He doesn't have to be explosive. He doesn't have to be explosive at all. He never has to do an explosive thing. LeBron has to explode constantly over and over and over again, or you're hurting your team. And bounce off dudes. And don't you think, Russell and I were talking about this Sunday night.

I think basketball is the hardest it's ever been to play. When I watch these guys in the finals, like you look at even by game six, Durant and Clay go down. Kavon Looney, his arm is hanging off his body. Kawhi's on one leg for basically the last two rounds. We didn't talk about it because he was able to produce but you saw some of the footage of him after they won the championship

and he's like limping not like a little limp, like a limp these guys, I just think it's really hard to play basketball it's not easy anymore it is kind of exciting though and I know you've told me already where Kawhi's ending up I don't want you to get charged with tampering

I don't want you to get charged with tampering. I don't want you to get fined. He's going to the Clippers. Yeah. So, which is great. As great as Laker haters. I mean, he might change his mind the day before, but I think everybody's expecting he's going to go to the Clippers. What will be nice going into an NBA season

is a team not being minus 1,000 to win the title. You know, I mean, it's been so brutal for five years to be like, well, I guess we need someone to get hurt or Draymond to get suspended for a game. It's been nine years. Because they- It's been since the first Miami year where we haven't had like a prohibitive favor.

Right. So this could be actually interesting all year long. Well, except for our Celtics. Damn it. Do you want to, actually, let's take a quick break and then I want to talk about Kyrie Irving. Okay. Hey, let's take a break to talk about

The Ringer's newest movie show, The Rewatchables 1999, our spinoff series, only available on Luminary. We're breaking down some of our favorite 1999 movies. It was a classic year in film. Same rewatchable style, same categories, all that stuff. We have The Matrix coming this week.

We've done some all-timers from that year over previous weeks, including The Sixth Sense and Cruel Intentions and American Pie and Austin Powers 2. You can listen to it just by going to Luminary. They give you access to a bunch of original shows from innovative, dynamic creators you can't find anywhere else.

They also have an app that's free to download. You can listen to thousands of podcasts, including mine, whether it's movie, sports, comedy, or more, whatever you want. Get your first two months of access to Luminary's premium content for free when you sign up at luminary.link slash Simmons. After that, $7.99 per month. Luminary.link slash Simmons. Cancel any time.

Terms apply. Speaking of the rewatchables, that is coming back next week with The Notebook. I'm not involved with that one, Kyle. Guess who likes The Notebook? Amanda Dobbins. And Julia L Amanda Dobbins and Julia Lippman but

your aunt Carrie Simmons it's a top fiver for her maybe like top 7 so check that out subscribe to the rewatchables and go find rewatchables 1999 available only on Luminary. Back to Hench.

Okay, we're only going to do five minutes of this. Just, it seems like Kyrie not only is gone, but there was an article in the Boston Globe today about how he has ghosted the Celtics, which is a term the young people use, Hench, when Kyle explained ghosting. You meet a girl at a bar. Okay. You get texting and then she that's it she just pretends oh i'm doing the ghosting in this whatever just explain

explain the concept of ghosting for our older my dad who's listening explain it from the perspective you've experienced it yeah what was the worst ghosting you've ever had girl well nobody said she was hot first of all second all, it's just you're never heard from again. And you don't give any sort of inkling that you're not going to be heard from again. But what's it called? What's the double ghost? What's it called when neither entity gives a shit

about ever seeing the other person again? That's a win-win. Yeah, of course. It's like, oh my God, Kyrie's incommunicado. Danny, have you tried to get in touch with him? No. Do you care where he is? Just hopefully not in Boston.

Well, they had ghosting when we were in college. We just didn't call it ghosting. We ghosted the whip. Right, Kyle? The ghosted the whip? Ghosted right the whip. Ghosted right the whip. Oh, nice.

Yeah, the Kyrie thing, it's been headed this way for a while. It looks like he's in Brooklyn. Supposedly he's already recruiting, which I think is hilarious. What was his line, the greatest please leave post-game interview line where he goes, he's five for 22, and he goes, I should have shot 32 times. Yeah. Oh, that was your takeaway?

You didn't shoot enough? Okay. Okay. Okay. Enjoy. Enjoy Madison square. It was funny. It was funny sharing his last Kyrie, the last Kyrie season with you because he offended.

I think every rule you have in basketball at some point, there is that stretch in the, in the bucks game when they just got offensive rebounds over and over again. Chris Paul impression. He was just kind of in the, just watching there. Horford, please for minutes straight. Chris Paul impression. He was just kind of in the page there. Horford, please get a rebound and give me the ball. You taped it. You're just sending me the clip.

You're like, what's he doing? Just explain to me what he's doing in this play. Hey, guys. Hey, guys. Unless one of you gets a fucking rebound, how am I going to dribble for 20 seconds and then take a bad shot? I need one of you guys to get a defensive rebound so I can do the fun part of the game and then say I should have taken more shots. Good luck, Brooklyn. Good luck.

Good luck. Seriously, good luck. You know, I'm an omnivore. And I don't want to get any hate mail to your site, but I do think red meat is important for your health. And B12, vitamin B12. This is great. This will definitely get more emails than anything you've said.

I, you know, I think Kyrie's fragile. I think he has knee problems and I don't think he is a physically sound player that I would want to invest a lot of money or a lot of possessions in. I just don't think, I think he's an incredibly skilled shooter and dribbler and I think his

net effect, no pun intended, on the outcome of the game is overstated. And we, both of us really enjoyed watching him for stretches. Oh, there'd be times where you'd break guys' ankles and you were texting like, oh my god, I love him! And obviously after game one of the Buck series, I was like, I know we're gonna

do it! Right. They've just been coasting on purpose. It's the second Tom Janevich Rockets team. We're going to do it. It's the reverse of when the Red Sox signed J.D. Drew in 2007 and every Dodger fan we knew was emailing us and making fun of us. Like, good luck, guys. Seriously.

And we're like, wait, his OBP is like, his OPS is over 900. Mind drive grand slam off Fausto Carmona. We bitch about it for six months. Earned his money with one swing. He had the $14 million grand slam. But it was the same thing where we get this guy and I feel like it's going to be that way for the Nets

where the Nets fans get Kyrie. They're going to be like this is great. And the Boston fans are just going, good luck. Well, I mean, my theory is just like this fans get Kyrie, they're gonna be like, this is great. And the Boston fans are just going, good luck. Well, I mean, my theory is just like this. If Kyrie Irving's your best player, you're not gonna win anything. Obviously, if he's your number two, as he was when he won something,

that's pretty good. But he wanted to be the guy. But that was so perfect because if he was the guy, he would have known that he was in a great situation. But he's not the guy. And he was right where he belonged. And so then he went and proved to the world, I'm not the guy.

And now I'm going to go prove that somewhere else. Flip side is what we saw from Kawhi Leonard. Oh, my God. I'm still coming to grips with the Game 7 Philly game when nobody else on his team could score and he had to take 39 shots. And he was definitely not 100%. And then ends up obviously making the game winner. But just the way he carried them in that game,

I really want to watch that game again. I really feel like they probably should have lost that game and he just wouldn't let them lose. There are so many moments in the playoffs. I mean, that guy, he's so quiet and like weird, but that guy's legend. Like, because that's a situation when you are the guy, right? Then those other guys become better players because they're like, oh, we got the guy. We got the killers right there.

The killer's there. So, you know, Van Vliet can bank in his three-pointers or you know like and and siakam doesn't have to be the guy and and kawai he was so measured i loved the stories that we would hear about nick nurse saying we got to go in and and get a split in oakland and he was like fuck that right we're gonna win both those games okay And then walking out of game four in Oakland, there was like, he wasn't smiling or high-fiving anybody. He was like,

this is exactly what I thought was going to happen. I thought we were going to come into Oakland and win both these games. He's like, I beat LeBron in NBA finals. Yeah. I guarded him the whole time. And my team won. I'm we're good.

It was very like sad to look out at, you know, the, the millions of people, half of whom holding signs that said stay. You're like, just be in the moment. Don't think. They're good, though.

Remember when we won in 04 with the Red Sox? Pedro left that winter. And can you imagine how bitter we would have been if he had left and we hadn't won the title, but we had won and it was like, we should have, even Johnny Damon left. Actually, some fans were mad about the Johnny Damon thing. Just because he went to the Yankees. I remember us talking about when we won in 04, like, just if we could win this one time, I'll forgive anything that's

anything in the future that will ever happen whatever sin you want to give us like just tell me what we need to do and that sin turned out to be Curt Schilling the next 15 years of Curt Schilling then you find yourself doing it in game 7 in the Stanley Cup finals you're like okay

okay if you can just also give me this okay yes if you just give me three straight championships. Listen, I don't ask for much, but if we get another duck boat parade. Nobody's won three straight ever. No one's ever done it. And then nothing.

And then I won't ask for anything. Just one more duck boat parade for Chara and the Broken Jaw and Bergeron, and that's it. Speaking of which, I know, I don't really know. You know, the NHL, that was an officiating apocalypse all playoffs long like

literally all playoffs long you're learning as you watch no the puck can totally go off the netting and then come back into play and they can whack it into the net and that goal stands you're like no the puck's out of play yeah there's no there's no mechanism hey that hand pass in overtime at the Sharks oh you can't review it heyvelski, that wasn't really a penalty. Yeah, there's nothing we can do. And then obviously in game five, after Berube chastises the officials, and they just decide, we're swallowing our whistles. We're just not going to call anything.

So Sundquist head hunts Krug, no call. Sundquist holds Krug, no call. Krejci has to make a save in the goal. Barbashov head hunts Johansson so bad, he gets suspended. What was the call in the game? Major? Minor? Nope, nothing.

And then Achari gets the slew foot from Tyler Bozak that leads to the deciding goal of game five, costs us the Stanley Cup. And I want to ask Kelly Sutherland. Okay, Don Denkinger. He's been waiting to do this for two weeks. We know, there's a chapter in the corrections

called the more he thought about it, the angrier he got. That's me with this non-call on Nolichari, on Bozak. So we know what happened when Don Denkinger cost the Cardinals the World Series. He thought George Orta's foot beat Todd Worrell's foot to the bag. Like it's a bang, bang play and his brain perceived it incorrectly.

What the fuck was Kelly Sutherland's explanation for how Noel Achari shot backwards and hit his own head on the ice? What happened? You're standing there. You're in the frame. You saw the entire play. What did your brain say happened?

And it's like, what happened is you were choking on your fucking whistle at a critical moment, the final officiating apocalypse of a disastrous NHL playoff season. Well, you missed the part where the guy started kind of looking around and getting ready to skate to the box.

Yeah, I know. It's unbelievable. And then the NHL, like, I don't know why the Vegas Knights get an apology, which they deserved. They completely deserved an apology. Hey, sorry we cost you your whole season. You were up three zip in midway through the third period against the Sharks.

We blew it. And then like Bruins get nothing. They're like, hey man, judgment call. Not to defend him, but I think he was so confused because it was actually two penalties. He didn't know which one to, he didn't know whether to call the trip. Both legs. Good chance that was a penalty. Good chance that was a penalty.

Yeah, that was rough. I actually think the... I thought the Blues played better. I thought the Blues were more consistent. I mean, obviously, we blew them out in a couple games. But once the Blues were up 1-0, it just felt like it was impossible to come back. That's hockey, right?

You dominate 16 minutes. You're going to, if you don't score, you're going to get a goal. It's like they were really good defensively. Their problem was when they had to play from behind. Their blue line was unbelievable. No, the Blues deserved it. But, you know, Kelly Sutherland deserves

eternal damnation. The thing that hurt for us was Jon Hamm finally getting a win over Boston. Very personal. We'd taken him in a couple World Series. He's calling out Boston in the victory parade. Like he's,

he's like, we beat those guys in their place. It turns out we're hateable. We made fun of him because he lost Affleck at the end of the town. He lost two World Series. He lost Super Bowl 36. I really felt like we had Ham's number

at least his Rams had already ghosted him for this year's Super Bowl he had already lost the team entirely wow shots at him yeah

he's having a rough life it is funny like we're running out of teams that have not won the title and the fans it's like the happiest moment of their teams that have not won the title and the fans, it's like the happiest moment of their life, basically. We just had the Blues.

We just had Toronto. And then you have the Patriots winning their sixth in like the most boring Super Bowl ever. But the last two were fun. And then Gary Woodland ruining the Brooks Koepka trifecta. Koepka, the number, like Koepepka's gonna be like the Warriors the way his number his betting number is gonna start going down

cause you're like yeah he's gonna be in contention on Sunday so I did I bet on him 9-1 before the open and it was like the most fun

even though I ended up losing tragically it was so much fun to just have a guy like that who even when he wasn't playing well I still felt like

I was in it and I think he's the guy now. I'm trying to think. Oh, for sure. I'm not. No, I'm not even saying for golf. I'm saying like he might be the guy right now. I'm talking about across the sports because Brady's going to be 42.

In basketball, I don't know who the guy is. In baseball, like whatever. In hockey, there's no guy. Like Kepka might actually be the guy. There baseball, like whatever. Um, in hockey, there's no guy like Kepka might actually be the guy. There's no boxing guy. The tennis guys are all getting old. Like a soundbite. I mean, I don't like,

no, but just the guy you assume is going to be in the mix when something important is happening. Like he's kind of becoming a figure in his sport. It's kind of like, you have to get through this guy to get to where you want to go. No, I,

when they threw that stat up, I couldn't believe it, first of all. So he became the second player ever to win two majors in back-to-back years. It was a crazy stat. Did you see his last six majors? Jack Nicklaus never did it. I was like, wow. I think he was like 1 39 1 2 1 2

in his last six majors I can't be talking about golf when my show is premiering on Friday what do you mean? it's golf man come on what are you talking about? Brooks Koepka

I do watch I do I do find myself Sunday getting sucked in to these tournaments I thought you I usually appreciate greatness

well I do no well you know what was interesting about, I mean, obviously we were going crazy during Tigers. That was bananas. That was like the most fun thing that happened this year. And we won a Super Bowl. And then, so of course, because the betting on Tiger is always so irrational, right? Yeah.

So then he was the favorite in the PGA, the betting favorite. And Koepka was below him kind of considerably, like almost $200 per hundred below him. And as soon as I saw it, I was like, oh, Koepka's a much better bet than Tiger. He's a much better golfer than Tiger Woods. Well, Tiger, he gets the public money now. A like when uh like the lakers are plus 250 to win the title right now that is bonkers nobody else is better than like plus 550 they have lebron davis kuzma nobody else well i almost went back however many months it would have taken because i know when the odds came out i sent you a text that i was like, Toronto plus 1200 is the best number

on this list you just sent me. Yeah. And then I'm like, and then I pat myself on the back and go, hey, pussy, why don't you actually put $300 on your great idea? The problem with Toronto though is they always played the Celtics well.

And I think, I assumed you were tainted by that. Would have been my guess. Cause you get tainted by the Boston teams. Well, what I was a little tainted by was this theory and you've probably heard it you might have invented it that toronto is an amazing town yeah so their regular seasons are always disproportionate to their actual talent because in the regular season every team that blows into tor Toronto goes out all night and then loses a regular season game and could give a shit. But come playoffs, teams obey curfew, and the Raptors get swept.

I don't think you would want to be walking out after curfew past Kawhi if he was at the hotel door. Yeah, you're going to be going back to bed. We're going to talk about your show in one second. All right. Fired up. I just want to go through our League of Dorks team. Jesus.

I'm sorry to do this to you, America, but I think every year you have to come on during the summer after we've just been let down and assaulted by our own team. I'm sitting right here. By this team of randomly, these guys that have no random connection. We bought them at auctions. by our own team. I'm sitting right. By this team of randomly, these guys that have no random connection. We just, we bought them at auctions.

I thought you'd give one sentence reviews of some of these guys. Let's start with Jose Ramirez, who we traded two first round picks for. Jose Ramirez. We traded two first round minor league picks for him.

Oh my God. Jose Ramirez, MVP candidate. Last year. Last year. Just last year. Definite top three MVP candidate. He was a top five player in baseball.

Power, speed and power. I mean, a perfect Roto player. Lots of power, lots of steals. He becomes a splint. He's a splinter. He's on our team. Our team's the frozen splinters. The frozen splinters.

Suddenly, he can't hit fucking 200 like he has gone above and below the Mendoza line six times already this season and every time he goes two for four I'm like he's turning it around and then I'll see this I always do this I go oh okay Indians won 13 to 4 I'm gonna go to this box score because I bet three bombs three bombs for Oh, oh, two bombs for Carlos Santana, 0 for 5 for Jose Ramirez. Great, great, great. So he's a disappointing piece of shit. He's hitting 204, 298 on base. 298 on base.

Four homers. Last year, he had 39 homers at 105 RBI. Beautiful. So thanks to him. So we destroyed him. Another notch on our belt. at 105 RBI. Beautiful. So, so thanks to him. So we destroyed him. So, another notch on our belt. We spent,

how much did we spend on Daniel Palka? We spent $8 on Daniel Palka who had 27 homers last year. He started out this season

one for 35 with 15 strikeouts. He's sitting zero 29. They sent him down. We haven't seen him since. He's one of our outfielders. The saddest exchanges

between us are when you send me links to the Birmingham Barons, the Charlotte minor league affiliate. Palka started to hit! Three homers this week.

Pauka lit up some 40-year-old in AAA. The other brutal thing, right? So it was a straight binary choice because we were bidding on Jose Abreu. Yeah. And we basically chose, we said, let's get Gurriel and Tyler White. Uli Gurriel and Tyler White instead of Abreu.

You're going to get like 350 more appearances for those two guys. So as it turns out, Uli and Tyler White and Tony Kemp, we have three Astros. We have a third of the nightly lineup of the best team in the American league. They do fucking garbage every night. I mean, Tyler White can't reach the warning track. So our friend Mendelsohn is the commissioner of our league. He sent us this information. Tyler White, 31 at-bats with runners in scoring positions, 16 Ks, three grounded double plays, one extra base hit.

61% of the time, he's either K'd or hit a double play. So he's on our team. And he was projected to have 22 home runs as was Kalka. He had a great year last year. He had a great year. Let's talk about another one of our stars, Aaron Judge,

who has so much muscle, his obliques just come flying off his body. He's in constant risk of permanent injury when he swings. You get Aaron Judge, you get the red flag

next to his name. Aaron Judge had the great, because he also got hurt for us last year. He cost us. Should have been a red flag. Cost us dearly last year. Yeah. Aaron Judge, as we hopefully go to the website, like, hey, any news on Aaron Judge?

And it was the first time either of us had heard this phrase. He's taking soft, dry swings. Right. heard this phrase. He's taking soft, dry swings. There can't be any moisture in his swings yet because he's so delicate. But he's taking soft, dry swings. That sounds like he's going to play this weekend. Soft, dry swings. Well, there's three weeks where they said he couldn't swing.

So it's like, well, what's he doing? What is he, just in a hot tub? Yeah, next week he's hoping to swing. Another one who killed us, Malik Smith, who we kept for $16. Last year, really good year for Malik. Hit 275, 39 steals, only 14 caught stealing, nine homers. Really seemed like his career was on its way up.

No. No. He was hitting like 160, and they sent him down. Welcome to Tacoma. Goes to Tacoma. Then we're checking the Tacoma and all of a sudden it's like, hey, Malik's might have found

his swing again. Brought him back up. He immediately sucked again, but now he's actually there's been signs of life. So kudos to you, Malik's. I've sent you some Malik's three exclamation point text.

Andrew Benintendi, we've had his entire career since we drafted him. I feel like we've actually ruined his career arc because this was somebody who could have been a 40-40 guy. And really, if we hadn't passed through his life. It just turns out that he's Todd Benzinger. Like he's not, he just doesn't have that much speed or power. Like he just doesn't. I mean, he's a nice player and he's Todd Benzinger. He just doesn't have that much speed or power. He just doesn't. I mean, he's a nice player and he's excellent defensively. He's excellent defensively. We won a World Series

with him. That catch off Bregman and the final out. He's an awesome defender. He's fine. He's a fine player, but my guess is that he's going to add power when he hits his late 20s after he's not on our team anymore. So we have that.

I should mention, we had Daniel Robertson on Tampa. Every year, these other guys in fantasy, you know, you get like these random dudes on Tampa or whatever team. And it's like, oh my God, they're having the year of their life. Tampa is an entire team of those guys. And somehow we have the one guy at 200, Daniel Robertson. So kudos to him. When we were sitting right here doing the draft, you know, because when you get down

to the Daniel Robertson portion of the draft, you know, we're scurrying, looking at computers and, you know, we have kids. We don't know all these guys' stats from last year. And we're both like, 373 OPP? This guy's awesome. This guy's got a little power. This guy's a steal, a sleeper.

And then it's like, no, the reason you hadn't heard of him, he's fucking terrible. Enjoy him. Well, hopefully he'll turn it around. We had Dylan Batances for $10. His new update three hours ago. Just shut down. Yankees' Dylan Batances yet to hours ago. Just shut down. Yankees Dylan Batances yet to resume throwing.

Just shut down. He's still experiencing symptoms of his low-grade lat strain. The best thing about having a fantasy baseball team is you just learn all these injury terms. Low-grade lat strain. Like if I was like, what's going on, Hench? He's working up to soft, dry throws off flat ground. We call him a cue

who was one of like our best keepers. He was like eight bucks. He was projected to go 15 and six with 187 Ks. He has a 604 ERA and has had elbow trouble

and might get shut down for the season. So kudos to that experience. Worse than to Patancis. I mean, literally worse for us than a guy who didn't play at all. There's more, but it just hasn't been fun. And I'm starting to wonder if it's us, not the fake fantasy fairytale baseball team we put together.

No, because as you and I pathetically keep saying to each other, I like our team. Right. I like our eighth place team. What's wrong? But thinking of all these Yankee injuries as they disappear over the horizon away from the Red Sox,

who've been healthy, except for Evoldi. Maybe that's our problem because in the early days, we would refuse to take Yankees. And then we won the World Series and we softened that policy because it was like,

well, now we have the upper hand. And we did. We've won four World Series. They've won one this century. So now we have all these Yan. And we do. We've won four world series. They've won one in the century. So now we have all these Yankees and we really haven't won since. It's crazy though. The Yankees have had 20 straight games with a home run and they're now adding judge Stanton and Encarnacion.

Like it's think about that. Yeah. They get Encarnacion out of nowhere. Just for nothing. They got, they gave up like their 39th prospect for that. Kind of would have liked them on the Red Sox. Yeah.

Yeah. Maybe. Or maybe a closer. No, no. Well, Will Smith from the Giants is the rumor. Oh, really? That'd be good, yeah. Would we give up for him?

You don't want to watch our bullpen blow more saves? The nightly, hey, it's your turn to pitch in a high leverage situation. Well, I can't believe we blew another save with random reliever guy uh all right talk about your show really quick uh so it's called mr iglesias it premieres friday uh on netflix june 21st on netflix i'm really proud of it uh gabriel iglesias better known as fluffy uh is the, just an incredible human being to work with. And, you know, my thing, what I do for a living is I take really talented people

and I try to get their horsepower to the wheels, you know? And so this is a guy that puts 20,000 people in Staples Center and sells out in Australia and Saudi Arabia and Norway. And he's just like one of the biggest standups of all time. And so, and, and, but he does it with this incredible humanity. Like he's a really good guy, not like a Boston dick like us. He's a, he's, he's a sweetheart. And he, and I'm like, I'm like the humanity in this guy is the key to the character. And so he plays a teacher who's fighting for the at-risk kids.

And even though it wasn't top of mind when I was doing it, as I was editing it, I was like, this really does – is a bit of an homage to Welcome Back, Cotter. Like it is – and it's funny that Gabe's name is Gabe and Gabe Kaplan was Gabe Kaplan. But it has that feeling of the sweat hogs and a cool teacher and a funny teacher. And so he's amazing. I'm sure many of the sweat hogs were available for cameos. You should have thought about it. Get your ball the next year. And then Sherry Shepard plays his principal, his boss.

She's amazing. Oscar Nunez from The Office and the State Farm commercials where he's much better than Chris Paul, much like nine of the Rockets were in the playoffs. He's amazing. Jacob Vargas is incredible as his best friend. The cast is amazing. The kids are amazing. Everyone's nice. I'm just at a point in my life

where I want to walk into work and like everybody I see. Not like this nephew of yours over here. I was going to say, not like our fantasy baseball team. I wanted to be the opposite of looking at our fantasy baseball team. We're just red flags and disaster. You know, Gabe shares the same worldview, which is like no assholes. So wherever you walk on our show, whether you're in the writer's room or the bullpen or the soundstage, anyone you see is like, I like that person, every department, you know? And so it was a dream.

And so there's 10 episodes on Netflix starting Friday. And I'm very hopeful and confident that there'll be more. Obviously I've been spoiled by Last Man Standing, which enters season eight on Fox. Season eight. And it is a little funny in my two worlds colliding that Friday, Vente Uno de junio friday june 21st um mr glacius premieres on netflix and toy story 4 comes out at the megaplexes so but if you have

a choice lots of people are going to go see toy story 4 watch my show i think this netflix thing is catching on you think well they are promoting it. So I appreciate that too. How old are your kids now? Huh? How old are your kids now? Five and 11. And we just- Does the 11 year old

like Adam Sandler? No, he hasn't. My kids love Adam Sandler. And we watched the new Adam Sandler movie, Murder Mystery. And they were into it? Last weekend. They just like all of his movies. They don't really care what the plot is. They movie, Murder Mystery. And they were into it? Last weekend.

They just like all of his movies. They don't really care what the plot is. They just trust him completely. He's their favorite actor. She did like, I did take her to the Kids' Choice Awards one year and he had done Hotel Transylvania or something. He was a voice and he presented and she did like him. The fun thing that just happened to me,

which you've probably already gone through, we went, we'd never been to Hawaii. Yeah. So we went on vacation to Kauai, the most remote, beautiful island that has to be experienced by helicopter. And I'm not great with heights, one of my many things in my closet full of anxieties. You're many foibles. And then- You've let her pick a do-less. So I'm like, my thing is like look I'm not gonna let my fears limit the enjoyment of my girls

my kids are gonna have a big full life even though I'm chicken shit about everything so except Kelly Sutherland who I'll kick his ass if I see him in a bar

so he's a hockey ref so so I'm like you know what I'm gonna overcome my fears I'm I'm going to overcome my fears. I'm going to overcome. And I have two fears.

One fear is heights. And the second fear is that it's $300 per person for 45 minutes in the helicopter. Yeah. So it's $1,200 for 45 minutes. That that's much, that's much more expensive than orchids of Asia. Anything else you could be doing at those rates. But so I'm like, I'm going to overcome- Is that a Bob Craft joke?

Mr. Craft, I'm there for you. I'm there for you, brother. You relax. You've earned it. So we're getting in this helicopter and I'm white knuckling it, but I'm doing it for my daughters. So I'm going to drop the 1200 bucks

and I'm going to drop my fear of heights for my children. This is dad heroism. Yeah. We're halfway into the ride between the million year old volcanoes. They dropped down into the corridor. These were formed a million years ago with lava. It's the most spectacular experience of your life.

I look over, Sophie's on her phone. Sophie's just on her phone. Like, I'm like, I'm going to throw you out of this fucking helicopter. Like, what is going on? What? Look, honey, honey. And that's when I realized, it's like, oh, there's nothing as good as that phone. There's not, there would never be anything as, as powerful.

Not even dropping into a volcano. As the dope, the dopamine drip of that phone. Like, that is just like, she's like, yeah, we've been up here for 15 minutes. I think I get it. Nature. Nature. It's been around a million years. The water's out there.

The mountains are in here. Got it. Volcano. So lava comes out. Good, good. Lila just said something to me on Snapchat. She's going to do Instagram DM. Yeah.

I identify with that story. Just wait until they get a little older. Now, your Zoe is a sports stud, right? She's okay. She's for real. And I do feel, obviously, I've felt your pain in many sporting events when I've been like, can you believe what just happened?

And you're like, well, I could believe it if I wasn't at a girl's soccer game. Yeah. And then I always gotta go, like Sophie is not in, she's not into sports. And I have- You've saved so much time. But she's had every opportunity.

The soccer goals were set up in the yard. I've got a full court basketball court at my house. Like it's like, it's, you could be, you could be whatever you wanna be, but she doesn't wanna be a jock. And so then I hear your stories and I'm like, oh, thank God. Cause at first I was brokenhearted about it. I was like,

oh, I thought you were going to be my shortstop. You know, we were going to do this together, get some great Santini, fun, fun father, daughter time.

And, uh, and it's like a lot of time. It's like Memorial day weekend. Just going to, the thing is, it is fun to root for your kids. So it's not all bad,

but the travel baseball is the one that's the one where your kid can it's a two and a half hour game and your kid could potentially bat like two or three times and have one ball hit to them at third base

and that's two and a half hours of your life they're just not involved I remember when you sent me game footage of the lucky save the other team's goalie made

on a penalty. Oh, on my daughter? You're like, can you believe this? Well, Bill, you're 900 yards away and it's your phone. So I can't really, I can't see. Patriots prediction before we go? I, you know, it's so funny because even though I think you can attest, knowing me as long as you have that these

these crazy duck boat parades have cured a lot of my knee-jerk pessimism and negativity I would beg to differ okay Chris Paul might beg to differ too Kelly Sutherland but um I do think like when Gronk you know how like when coaches like build dynasties and then Phil Jackson goes, eh, I think I'm done. Like there's these moments where you see major, and I know you and I feel the same way about Gronk. Like that guy is such a game changer.

We watched him when he wasn't on the field. We watched them try to move the ball when he wasn't on the field. But so I felt like between the 42 years old at the QB and the kind of only reliable weapon, I just felt like, I know Vegas is still saying 11, 11 and a half. They were minus 550 to win the AFC East last weekend. And I was like, I was like, I know,

I don't really believe in any of those QBs in our division yet, but I was like, I was like, I know I don't really believe in any of those QBs in our division yet, but I was like, I do think this might be the nine and seven. I kind of feel it. I love this. This is great. This is the best thing you've done in all year. Trey Flowers. This is great.

So many pieces have just kind of been pulled off, pulled away. Kyle, to me, this means the Patriots season has officially begun. Hanch has talked himself into a dangerous outcome, which means we're close. We're close to where we need to be. I was thinking about it. What's today's date? It's like June. June 18th. So- 18. Let me see. I can figure it out because Friday's June 21st, the premiere of Mr. Iglesias on Netflix, 2018.

Good point. My brain was working that way. You know, Gronk retires after winning the Super Bowl. You're in the Super Bowl. Hi, all that stuff. Good for him. He's getting it out. But now it's like mid-June.

The combo of, I don't know, I can't name any of our tight ends. I've seen the depth chart and it's like, none of those guys are going to catch more than- Those same five names are in every story. It's like,

Izzo? Is that guy related to Larry Izzo? Is it Larry Izzo? So it's like, none of those guys are going to get to 40 catches, much less 80. And then,

so I thought about that and then just like, I just really loved Gronk. I really like, he was one of my five favorite athletes ever. It was like, I came to grips with the fact that there's no football with Gronk anymore. And I don't know why it took this long,

but it really genuinely made me sad. I love that guy. It's a perfect career. It really was. It's a perfect career. I'm so glad he got out. I just, I'm going to miss him. And then when you hear, obviously the worst thing is to love a guy as much as we love Gronk.

And then you just hear all the stories like, bad guy. And then every story is like. Yeah, it was like the opposite. He'll stay late for the kid. The kid, you know, the kid's in surgery. He was promised he was going to meet a patriot. And so he's going to stay late. You know, like every story is Gronk's at his teammates event.

Gronk's going to be there. Gronk's going to, you know, take a picture with every kid. And so the fact that he's a great guy, that is like, okay, you survived. You're not going to have. He also had, he took some of the worst hits of any Patriot and a couple of the worst cheap shots that I can remember of any Patriot. If Jack Tatum was a 10 out of 10, Gronk took a couple like eight and a halfers. Every time they went low for the last seven years. Yeah.

Breathless. TJ Ward started it. Okay, but you're still confident. You're laughing at my nine and seven while lamenting our most unguardable player. I like the draft. I think Belichick, I just,

he's going to have to be 70. The game can't pass him by. How old is Trump right now? 74? Oh, don't bum everybody out, man. 74. He's going to have to get to whatever age Trump is right now

before I'd start to lose confidence. I just feel like he's got five years left of like high level, I'm smarter than everybody else. What's your theory for why his coaching tree sucks basically i mean like you know that that they never do anything that you know i don't have a theory for it it doesn't make sense you would have thought there would be like two or three good ones my theory is oh yeah oh so you have a theory yeah well because it's like you know romeo cronell, Josh McDaniels, Patricia, Bill O'Brien,

like they all go and Vrabel, like they're fine. Sometimes they're an embarrassment and they come limping back to Foxborough. But, you know, but I was like, why are none of these guys the heir apparent? And I do think, you know, going back to reading this article about his economics background,

and this is something you could not transfer to a disciple. You could not teach an assistant this thing. Belichick watches practice and goes, that guy's a $6 million player. He's not an $8 million player. And he just, like, his ability to be right on guys on Thursday, like, Like he's like the day they're worth less. Like, cause we've been, we've been through it. You know, the names we could go, Laura Molloy, Ty Law, David Givens.

Yeah, he always knows. Willie McGinnis, you know, it's just like. Seymour. Dion Branch. I mean, it's just on and on and on and on. And I just think he has a supercomputer that has that economic mind where he goes, that guy's still a very good player, but not at his price. I'm also convinced he found the secret

sauce of just finding smart guys who could adjust on the fly to different situations. So you get like Troy Brown, Nickelback. Yeah. Like that. I mean, the defining play of that last Superbowl, which everybody hated, but we couldn't move the ball on the Rams. And then he goes with that jumbo lineup. And you just have to have guys who are at least smart enough to say, oh, I know I'm a fullback, but they're going to spread me wide on these plays

and I'm going to know what to do because I'm smart. And their best cover corner is going to guard me and I'm 280 pounds and can't run. Yeah, it's like the IQ, it always seems like the other team is the one that's doing the dumbest thing or that made the one play, the one regretful thing, or this guy shouldn't have been there, or they dropped this, or Dee Ford's offsides. And the Pats, like just over and over again, aren't the ones doing that. Now, it's happened over the past, but we should have lost to the Chiefs.

I've thought about this game a lot. Dee Ford, if he's just back 18 inches, it's the same play. He didn't affect the play. Brady just throws a pick. We lose. The game's over. And that's it.

So there's some luck, but also you're getting emotional. Well, I mean, because it's funny. Prior to Kelly Sutherland's debacle that cost the Bruins the Stanley Cup, I think the worst officiating costing us a championship was the Giants holding

every guy on the Patriots defensive line. We still text back and forth. It's like nine holds on one play. None of them are called. It was different stages of nine holds on one play. None of them are called. Helmet catch. It was different stages of holds on the same play. There was the first wave of holds. When Eli breaks free, there was a whole new

wave of holds. So, you know, that game, I always, you know, if Dee Ford gave us plus one, then... Yeah, so those cancel out. I agree with that. I think we have to write a number of Super Bowl championships. I agree with that. gave us plus one, then... Yeah, so those cancel out. So, you know, I agree with that.

I think we have to write a number of Super Bowl championships. I agree with that. I'll never get over the 06 game. I don't know what the flip one of that is against the Colts.

21-3. Too many men in the huddle. It's just like, I still, that's the one out of all of them. They're just like, how did we lose that one? We're going to win a Super Bowl

with Rasheed Caldwell and Jabbar Gaff as our receivers. I guess the flip we lose that one we're gonna win a Super Bowl with Rasheed Caldwell and Jabbar Gaff as our receivers it was gonna be so great I guess the flip one on that one was probably the Malcolm Butler

Super Bowl though right that made up for that one that's for sure this is where people listening to this who don't love the Pats are now

they're like they fucking somehow snuck in a Patriots top 25 games you know who enjoyed it Kyle I loved it the Casey one

I don't know where that ranks, but if we did that list again, it's in like the top eight. Oh my God. Plus that's now the Orchard Spa game. Craft Daily doubled it. Starts there for the Orchard Spa. Orchards of Asia. If you're going to do a promo for a reputable company,

get the name right. Orchards of Asia. Starts out there, ends with the AFC title. What a day! Bob Craft. It's like a Make-A-Wish Foundation for billionaires. I want to start my day at Orchid's Avesa and end with an AFC championship. I said on a pod last month, very comparable to Aria losing her virginity and then killing

the lead White Walker all in one day. That and Bob Craft. I don't know what a better day. Oh my God. Perfect day. All right, Kevin Hedge, good luck. That Bob craft. I don't know. I had a better day. All right, Kevin Hedge. Good luck with your Netflix show. Thank you very much. It's going to pop on Friday.

So check it out. Thanks to the zone. Don't forget to go to DAZN.com. Thanks to Brian Curtis. Don't forget to listen to the press box. An awesome podcast. Thanks to Kevin Hedge. Don't forget about his new Netflix show.

Thanks to HairClub. Whether you're looking to revitalize the growth of your hair or learn more about the latest proven methods for hair replacement and restoration, HairClub will craft a personalized solution. Go to hairclub.com slash Simmons today. Get a free hair health and scalp analysis

for new customers. Enjoy a $250 savings on any qualifying hair club service after your initial consultation. Hairclub.com slash Simmons. Don't forget. Do not forget. Don't forget.

NBA Draft. Come to us. Come to the NBA Draft Guide. Come to theringer.com. Go to at ringer during the draft for our live watch along show. I really hope the Celtics haven't completely fallen apart. Pray for me. See you on Thursday night. I don't have feelings

within on the wayside I'm a person I never said I don't have feelings