The Bill Simmons Podcast - The New NBA and Billionaire Secrets With Steve Nash, Brian Koppelman, David Levien, and Chris Ryan | The Bill Simmons Podcast

Episode Date: September 4, 2019

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by NBA legend Steve Nash to talk player empowerment and how the public reception has changed around players who leave their teams for new horizons (2:55). Then Bill sits down with 'Billions' cocreators Brian Koppelman and David Levien to discuss athlete cameos, turning 50, hanging with billionaires, writing the show, and more (37:25). Finally, Bill talks with Chris Ryan about Team USA, their narrow victory over Turkey, why young players may feel inclined to sit out of FIBA, Olympics predictions, and more (1:09:15)! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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with Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. We did that with Aaron Sorkin and Sean Fantasy this week and myself. Rewatchables 1999 is back on Luminary. Eyes Wide Shut is coming this week. So if you're a subscriber, congratulations, because you'll get to hear that one. Ryan Rosillo's new podcast, the name has officially changed.

It launched Tuesday. It is called the Ryan Rosillo Podcast. We changed the name and has a new graphic, the whole thing. And there you go. He's going to be in your lives now three times a week on The Ringer Podcast Network. Hey, coming up, Steve Nash. We taped this a few days ago, actually, and we talked about all the crazy player movement

in the NBA. We talked about Champions League and Tottenham and all that stuff. And we talked about Team USA, which has become more relevant over the last few days because the game started and also some guys who didn't play, which then I'm going to talk to Chris Ryan

about all the Team USA stuff that's happened the last couple of days. He's the second guest. And then finally, our old friends, Brian Koppelman and David Levine, the co-creators of Billions, Once Upon a Time, they wrote Rounders,

one of the most rewatchable movies in the last 25 years. They've done a whole bunch of other great stuff. So we're catching up with them as well. A lot of stuff going on in this podcast. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. Steve Nash is here. He's in to do something else that we haven't announced yet, but we finished that, and now we're going to talk quickly

about where basketball is going in 2020 with everybody just switching teams every year now. And you were a very loyal guy. You switched once from the Mavs to the Suns, and you didn't even really want to do that. Then you stayed with the Suns forever, and then you finally went to the Lakers near the tail end of your career. But you were really loyal to the cities and the, and the teammates, all that stuff. And something has shifted this decade. And I don't think it's a good thing or a bad thing. It's just the way it's changed now. When you look at what basketball is like now, what do you think?

I guess the way I look at it is it's like this evolution and it's just the cycle and the players are realizing how important they are to the business that are flexing on it and saying like, I really do have more power. Whereas I think the generation, the generational shift, every generation, the way kids are growing up nowadays,

like it's almost like anything's available, anything's on the table. Whereas when, you know, when I was growing up, it was like, how dare you? Yeah. You know, how dare you like say that? Like, you know, when I, you know, it was, that was one of the things when I went from, when I went from Dallas to Phoenix and Phoenix to LA, Dallas and Phoenix were both done with me. You know, like they would have kept me on for cheap, but they didn't value me going forward as a piece of the franchise that I was at. So, you know, in a sense I was forced to like show my value and move on to, you know, to where I thought I was still valued and wanted and an important part. So, you know, but that was, those were tricky times. Cause I wasn't like,

you know, Oh hell yeah, I'm out of here. I was like, really, can't we find a way? Yeah. Can't we, you know, could we do this? Could we do that? And when it was just apparent that it wasn't going to happen and then golf between how much I was wanted somewhere else and where I was, you know, it was too big. You had to go, but it was like, the decision was made for me nowadays. I think we're at a place and rightfully so that the players are saying, you know, how many lockouts have we had where the owners make the players look like, you know, fools and just hold out, and they know that one of the 400 guys is going to make us look bad, and we'll splinter, and we'll wait. And, you know, we're in an era now where I think, one, the players are showing more power, more sophistication, but we're also showing we have a commissioner that has great foresight and is

riding the line between allowing this to go on and seeing where it goes and at the same time avoiding big problems in collective bargaining. So I do think there will be some sort of correction at some point, but I don't think we're there yet to decide, okay, this has gone too far. We've got to correct this. And I think Adam's outstanding because he wants player power. He wants players to be global icons. He wants them to have a voice in the community.

All these things that I think make the NBA unique and powerful. And at the same time, he's also watching it closely to make sure that like yeah the owners are happy but what is the perception of the fans where is the game at its greatest where can we keep this thing growing because it's it's in a great trajectory trajectory right now if i told you kd was only going to be with the warriors for three years three years ago would you believe

that i wouldn't have not believed it. I think I would have thought he would have had such a great experience there that he wouldn't want to leave. So that would be the surprise in it. You mean like just winning every year?

Playing with the best players in the league? You would have thought that would have been enticing? Yeah, sort of. Make a lot of money? You know, but like, you know, Kevin's a,

Kevin's, he's a thoughtful, I don't want to say complicated. He's sophisticated. He definitely I think is – he's continually pushing himself and searching for whatever it is out there that's going to fulfill him and excite him. And so I think maybe that part of was underestimated that he would leave in three years

because that was what led him there in the first place, right? It was that he wanted something higher, bigger. He wanted to experience something new. He wanted to be pushed in new ways. And it's kind of the same thing that's happening now. Did you buy the whole narrative that once you join the Warriors and you think this would be great, I'm going to prove I'm the best player in the league,

I'm going to beat LeBron in a final series and whatever, and then slowly realize this is Steph Curry's city, this is Steph Curry's team. I'm kind of the sidekick, for lack of a better word. Do you think that bothered him or is that an overthink? Because it is Steph Curry's city. Yeah, I think that plays a role. I don't think it's everything for Kevin.

I think it's probably overplayed by the media. I think in some ways Kevin just wanted to change. That's not all of it, but I think that's a big enough portion of it that he wanted a new challenge, a new environment, and similar to when he left okc you know that's just i think like him constantly seeking maybe a new challenge and a new opportunity new experience he's he's you know there's a lot of layers to him and i think he he loves to explore because you played with you had marion and stoudemire together in phoenix complicated guys sure and marion was the guy who was in kind of that Chris Bosh

in Miami role of the thankless third star who's doing all the dirty work, and he's got his friends telling him, you'd be the best player if you were on this team or whatever. But the best thing for him to do to win with you is to put up 18 and 10 a game, guard the other team's best player, and not do too much.

Right. And you had to navigate that as the leader of the team, basically, for the entire mid-2000s. Do we underestimate the mechanics of a basketball team as fans and as media people, like just the day-to-day personalities? Because it does seem like with the Warriors, that was one of the things that drifted south a little bit. You would have thought Durant, Curry, Draymond, Clay,

it would just be like, oh my God, can you believe we're all playing together? But basketball teams are complicated and weird stuff starts to happen. Do you feel like it's just hard to have a peaceful team for that long? Yeah, it's a challenge. I mean, like here's a, how about this for an anecdote? Like, you know, all these guys are now like exploring business opportunities away from the court. But how many of them are partnering on business opportunities? That's a good point.

Think of that. They could, think about how powerful they could be if they teamed up. But they want their name on the door because they have to share the name on the front. Right? Like they share that arena. Now they want to build their own thing individually. So I think that's a tricky thing. They're human. They want to prove that they can expand and do different things and show diversity and show that they're talented beyond just basketball.

And so in some ways you're getting pushed to do by the culture to do that and stand out from an off the court perspective. And at the same time, you're, you know, you're trying to put a basketball team together. So I think that that's, you know, one of those things that we're going through a cycle where players. So those two things are a little bit at odds. They're a little, yeah. I mean, I don't even, they're at odds, you know, conceptually, but I don't even know that they're directly at odds. It just is an interesting mirror of like what player, what the culture is kind of like. I wonder how many of these guys are, are trying to build business off the court because everyone else is. I would say like a few. Instead of just like, no, I really love this and I want to do this. It's like the obligatory, I got to do this.

Because the amount of money, some of the, some of the guys are making nowadays, you know, how many days do you have to give away with external stuff to make 5%, 10% of what you're making annually anyways? Possibly. Maybe, and maybe making nothing. So I think it's an interesting era. I love player empowerment. I think that we're going through this period where the boundaries are getting pushed. But at the same time, I think it's cyclical and we'll come back to a place that might not be like it was 20 years ago.

You know who started all this off the court bullshit? Guy from Canada by the name of Steve Nash. I remember way back in the day before anyone was thinking this way, somebody got his hands in a 30 for 30, did a little finish line documentary for Grantland, was doing a production company. You're patient zero for this. You don't get blamed.

You gave me my first film. Yeah, but when you were doing that, everybody was like, Steve Nash is going to produce a 30 for 30? They were dumbfounded by it. Now, if we were launching 30 for 30 now, we would have every athlete. Every athlete would be like,

hey, I just formed a company. Can I do it? But also, just the way content is nowadays, there's so much content. If you're trying to get something off the ground, you've got to attach a celebrity to it, whether it's an actor, a producer, an artist, or an athlete.

It's almost laughable, right? Yeah. How many, like, oh, you got an EP credit on that. People still ask me what happened to the last episode of The Finish Line. And I was like, what happened is Steve Nash's basketball career was actually really ending. And it suddenly became not as fun to do a documentary series about it. It was.

And we also, in my perspective, I'm not saying this is wrong. We shot a ton that we never made it in. Yeah. And I think we'd shot so much that the exhaustion um i don't i i don't i think the series ended up great and the way it was i wouldn't take it way ahead of its time it was i'm really proud it's one of the things i'm the most proud of from that girl whole grantland era especially because i remember you were initially going to do a documentary and then we talked about it talked about it and we thought to capture it in

the moment would be cooler and it really was like there was nothing like that it was funny because you would always push me to write a book yeah and and when i called you to do this you were like this is your book let's do it and um so i was grateful to do it but where i'm i'm frustrated is that i didn't double down and make that my model and do a bunch of content like that i kept thinking more more like, how do I get into this, you know, linear conversation more and TV and all that. And that was not wise. I think that was my sweet spot, especially at the time. That you, that was the last Lakers playoff season. So you have that. Yeah. Um, Dwight Howard was there now he's back with the Lakers. Amazing. Right? Did you, what were the odds of that in 2013?

It took me a minute. I was like, oh yeah, Dwight's in the Lakers. Then I thought, hold on a minute. I was with Dwight on the Lakers. You had the iconic SI cover. That didn't end well, yeah. Yeah. Were you surprised to see him come back?

I was. I mean, that didn't, did not end well. And, you know, but in today's NBA, are you surprised of anything? I mean, the stranger things have happened. You know, this whole thing now where the guys are teaming up and the new team and Katie and Kyrie in Brooklyn, and just, this is now the thing every year, but people are acting like this wasn't happening before. Like this, you know, the, I think the 2012 Lakers were a good example. You and Howard on that SI cover, and it's you guys and Kobe and Gasol. And then eight years earlier, basically the same thing happened with Peyton and Malone and Shaq and Kobe.

This was happening. KG and Ray Allen and Paul Pierce. I mean, even like Kobe, Artest, Bynum, Gasol. It's a pretty good team, right? You know, so like there's been these teams that maybe didn't quite have like, I don't know if it was the moment that made it look like a super team,

but it's been going, look at the old Lakers and Celtics teams. I mean, those were super teams. If you'd been healthy that year, let's say you were 2010 Nash instead of 2012 Nash, would that Lakers team have actually been good or was that too weird of a team uh so what did we do we made the playoffs lost in the first round of the Spurs you had Kobe who had never really played with a point guard like that I don't think it was it was a great fit it was a great idea it was a great opportunity you know I think everyone thought

you know this this will happen this will be great but it started happening, I mean, a lot of factors. One, you know, I broke my knee in the first, second game, whatever it was. I was never the same. I'm still not the same from that. What was that one, broken kneecap? I broke the tib-fib joint on my knee in my first or second game with the Lakers. And it was inside the joint where it articulates. And with my back problem, there's a theory in neuropathy.

Everyone just go to take a quick nap here, but called a double crush. So I have, you know, let's say a non-symptomatic nerve problems in my back with all my other back issues. Then this nerve running through that joint, you have two, it's called a double crush. And so I've honestly, since that break, I've never, my body's different just the way it responds to everything. So there's that. I wasn't quite the same. Wasn't moving great forevermore.

You know, Pau, I think was going through a stretch where he was exhausted from playing for Spain all through the summers. And Dwight came off the back surgery. I don't think Meadow was quite the same, you know, although he could still, you know, hurt people and still had his moments. He wasn't quite as dynamic as he was. And I don't think we fit great. You know, like Dwight was at a moment in his career where he really wanted to post up and, you know, whereas what would suit our team as a high pick and roll and Dwight rolling to the basket and you got all these other guys around. You weren't showing him Amari pick and rolls on your phone? Yeah, I mean. Look at this. Watch this. You know, I think Mike actually did a little bit.

But I think he really was at a moment where he wanted to prove. And I don't know if his back, he didn't want to move around that much or what, but he wanted to prove that he could, you know, play in the post. The unfortunate thing is it was just getting to that era where teams could just cheat in and out of the paint enough that it made it hard. Anyways, you add it all up. I don't know that it made it hard. Anyways, you add it all up. I don't know that it would have ever worked. You know, it just, it was doomed. What was Kobe like at that point

in his career? You know, he, I mean, he had a great year, the year he hurt his Achilles. I think coming out of the Olympics and Olympics where he was not moving well. And I think, was it the OKC series the year before, like before the Olympics where he was not moving well, not moving well in the Olympics. And then he comes back that season and it's like he's he's 10 years younger and yeah he's physically was outstanding and then he tore the Achilles and so um you know he but he he was playing great at a super high level uh but it's just the pieces you know it was such a lot of old dogs new tricks tricks. And we already talked about how temperamental chemistry is in a basketball team in particular, of all the sports in a sense,

that balance. And so looking back on it now, I'm not sure what I've ever worked. You played with Kobe. You played with Shaq. You played with Stoudemire. And you played with Dirk. And you played with Jason Kidd. Who am I leaving out?

You played with five of the best 10 guys of the last 25 years somehow, or maybe the best 12. I don't know. I'd have to see the whole list, but it's kind of weird. But you caught Shaq at a weird point in his career. You caught Kobe at a weird point. Even Dwight was the best center of the 2000s after Shaq. Dwight, we forget a

little bit how good he was because ever since that back surgery, nothing went right for him. He was unbelievable before that. Yeah, I got to play, you know, I just didn't get to play them at the right time and they didn't get to play with me at the right time. Tottenham really quick. Have you recovered? You know, it's not been very fun this first few weeks of the season you know the mechanism of that european transfer that's primarily you can't make any transfers after say august 9th and the rest of europe can transfer until september 2nd and so christian erickson like our one of our very very best players but also our best most irreplaceable playmaker because a lot of the teams sit back and just defend the whole game and he's the one guy that's just

brilliant at pulling teams apart. You know, he's said after the Champions League that he wanted to, I think he wanted to go to Madrid, but it doesn't look like Madrid's coming in for him, but he's waiting to see if someone will come and so on. There's a few players like that in our team that are, the whole thing's unsettled. So it's been an uncomfortable start to the season.

Having said that, if you had asked me two or three weeks before the Champions League final if Tottenham would ever make a Champions League final if I lived to be 90, I'd probably say no, not a chance. So to get there was like a gift and a dream and an unbelievable experience. And you had to do television. It was my first year in studio during Champions League.

I can't believe that happened. It was unbelievable. And the way they beat City in that crazy game, doubleheader, and then the home and away with Ajax. I mean, it was unbelievable. And then, ironically, the final was a dud. My only experience that's even relatively similar to that, just being on live TV when something super personal is happening to you,

is I was doing the NBA draft for ESPN the day they traded Pearson Garnett and they just dumped them and we didn't know what the picks were. How'd you respond? I basically am like just dying on television because it seemed like they took Gerald Wallace's contract back and we got like two picks back. Didn't know about the pick swap. Right.

And I'm just like, and they're like, Bill, what do you think? And I'm thinking like, Paul Pierce has been on our team for 15 years. What's going on? I thought he was going to retire with us. And I didn't like the trade. It's intense. It was hard. I don't know if you.

I remember that. When they scored, I went sprinting out the door. Yeah. Like for two minutes straight around sprinting out the door. Yeah. Like for two minutes straight around the studio in Burbank. I came back in. I didn't mean to. I didn't, you know, it just hits you. And I come back in and I'm tearing up.

And like, obviously they caught it. People love that though. People caught it. And, but it's a weird thing. Then you got to go and talk about it. You know, like you're like, I'm just, I don't even know where I am. Like I, like I'm literally gone. Like like i'm so gone this goes back to like my first word was goal my dad's from my mom and dad from tottenham my

grandparents like my dad grew up going to games running to the stadium i remember waking up on the west coast of canada five in the morning as whenever tottenham was on my whole childhood like it's your fabric of me my dad my brother my cousins like all these things that comes out of you don't even know we're there. And then you're on TV like, I have nothing to say right now. The champions, the final, the classic terrible goal in the first 90 seconds. Very unfortunate.

Which is my least favorite thing about soccer, being a sports parent, those games when you just kind of go, oh, this is going to be one of these games. We're down 1-0 on the dumbest goal ever, and now we're going to hit a crossbar. They're going to get one chance. My dad always said, that's football. You dominate, they get one chance, you lose.

Then they move everyone back. They're playing kickball. And you're just like, oh, really? We're going to have to do this? Yeah. Yeah, and that's the game. And, well, one of the things that made last year's Champions League fantastic was the away goals because it forces teams to go for it.

Yeah. Because you can't sit – you've got a choice. Are we going to lead here? We go home? Are we going to sit back and absorb pressure the whole game? That sounds ugly. But are we going to play and open it up? And then they, you know, so there's all this, you know,

this kind of psychological battle going on that made it so exciting. You know, all these big comebacks. But in the final, I think more than anything, is that the English League finishes three weeks before the final. And the teams were just so, they just hadn't played. As a professional athlete, you need rhythm and sharp sharpness and when you can't get that in practice when the lights go on it's really hard just on three weeks of practice to be at your best and you could see that in both teams you're canadian but you're an honorary american thank you um

pulisic what are your thoughts this is by far the best American player we've ever had. Talent-wise, yeah. And the level he's gotten to already, yeah, for sure. I mean, it's going to be very interesting because I thought he's been pretty sharp so far. Starting at Chelsea, this is not a level above him. He can thrive at this level. He's gifted. He's quick.

He's got a quick mind. He's versatile. He can pass. He can score. He's a great attacking player. At these clubs like Chelsea, though, where there's money and obviously, luckily for him, they have a two-window transfer ban, so they can't really recruit over him. These clubs, though, in the future, they're going to have the opportunity to go and buy a great player. As much as anything, anything it's like will he find his role and his spot in this team and the dynamic and the way they want to play and own it because before they make a move right because if if he he can be a great great player but if he doesn't quite fit and and really nail down his position his role in in the way that they play you know then, then he can flounder.

What is his position? Because they definitely move him around all over the place. He's a creative midfielder, attacking midfielder, who kind of, you know, he plays on the fence of like,

of a striker midfielder. So he, But do you think he can be a 10 ultimately? He can be a 10, because a lot of modern 10s start wide and come in. So we don't necessarily play with that 10 in the hole as much anymore,

like that sits behind the striker or as a second striker or as, you know, in between the midfield and the striker. So he can drift into those areas and be really dynamic. But when you're a little guy in this big, in this game, there's not those, that's not where the space is. So you see a lot of these guys drifting out wide now, Hazard, Neymar, you know, even Messi starts way out on the right and he cuts in and Pulisic is a little bit like that where you know he finds his space and then he can use his quickness and his connect he can connect with his teammates really well play one twos get him behind the defense either with a dribble or pass he's got he does have a final ball in him he's already gotten some beautiful assists for Chelsea so he's dynamic and tricky and if he gets between the lines or as they say

in soccer in the half spaces that are you know just out towards the edge of the box you know he's he's really really talented and gifted it's amazing to see an American play to this level I can't believe it he does seem like he's just a level higher it would be like putting mid-2000s you on a team like some college team with some of the Americans that he's playing with like who I think some of them have potential, but he just clearly is seeing things that his teammates aren't totally seeing yet. Every sport, people say, what's the difference when you go up a level? It's

speed of thought. It's speed of thought. You can say, well, the guy's maybe a little quicker, a little stronger, a little better skilled, but none of it matters if they are not thinking quick. And that's what it is. He thinks the game quicker than his contemporaries. Can you tell the Knicks fans that R.J. Barrett's going to be good? R.J. is going to be good.

I mean, you're biased. Yeah, I'm 100% biased. But you've also known him his whole life, and you believe in him as a competitor. I have gone all in on R.J. Barrett just because you're so passionate about this, and I trust you. So if I get burned on this, I'm going to do that yeah you've all rightly I should be punished if I'm wrong but you know he

look he's a he's a he has a great feel for the game he I know at Duke sometimes force some plays you know they had no shooting and they all sat in the paint and I think coach K knew he was our the best playmaker so he put the ball in his hands a lot. And so sometimes he looked bad. And that isn't necessarily the fault. It's the fault of being an 18-year-old on a college team that didn't have any shooting. And also he played with Zion, which made it really difficult for people to expect. Because why doesn't Zion have the ball?

And reality is that Coach K knows that on a clogged defense, you're not doing Zion any favors. You're doing a kid that's played the point half his life. You know, let him have the ball. Yeah, maybe Zion could have had it a little bit more here and there, but it was just these are young guys on a team with not a lot of shooting who basically have similar skill sets that want to get in the paint. So I think at times it looked bad, but great experience for him. And he also showed. I think he was like almost like maybe the leading ACC

scorer ever, made every pass in the book. For freshmen, yeah. You know, for freshmen, made every pass in the book, great competitor. I also like that he navigated. He ends up on a, he's the number one guy in high school, goes to Duke, ends up with this guy Zion, and now Zion's a unicorn. And everybody's like Zion, and now Zion's a unicorn. And everybody's like, Zion, Zion, Zion, more Zion. Why does he get Zion? Well, Zion's the

best. I love Zion. And he's got to navigate this as a freshman in college. I couldn't navigate anything as a freshman in college. I think that's really hard. And he's on national TV. It's a tribute to him and his parents. His dad, I played with for years, is outstanding, and he's got a world-class mom. And so he's just a kid that he deals and adapts and is like, it's okay. And they became best friends.

You know? That is another thing I like, that those guys, instead of having a little something, they're actually like legit best friends. Yeah. And I think those,

like, we underestimated, I think, you got to, like, if you have strong values and are a good person, you have a better chance. You have a better chance to navigate this crazy world. And I think we've shown signs of that from him already at a young age. I would throw in the crazy work ethic too. Because I do think he's one of those guys that will be in the gym. That's all he knows.

In the summer and just be like, oh, this summer I'm working on corner threes and I'm shooting a million a day. That's all he knows. In the summer and just be like, oh, this summer I'm working on corner threes and I'm shooting a million a day. That's all he knows. And I think for him, the challenges are going to be obviously continuing to be a better shooter, but he's trending way up from where he was three years ago. Well, New York's a challenge. That's a really big spotlight. I mean, it's better if he's in Memphis than in New York.

That's going to be a challenge, and he'll take some lumps. But he—and I think his foot speed, he's still a young guy. He's not—when he gets momentum, great athlete. But out of—from the dead start, he's got to improve there. And so he can overcome that with maturity. He can overcome that because he has a great feel for the game. He can pass. He can— that because he has a great feel for the game. He can pass, he can, and he obviously can slash and score. So I think he'll have success early, but he's got a lot of maturing to do. He's going to be really, really good. I called Jalen pretty early on.

And I was like, this guy reminds me of you in college. There's some differences, but feel for the game, the lefty thing. There's just a rhythm that he has. And I was like, I don't want you to get mad because Jalen's very possessive. I was like, is it okay if I say it? He's like, no, no, no. I see it too. And Jalen would have been like, how dare you? But he felt the feel of the game thing is definitely there with him.

I thought he took too many shots last year, but I also think their team was kind of the wrong group of dudes. And they went through all that together. Yeah. It's not like they got to go back and try again this year and sort out where those imbalances were. So it all unfolded in front of our eyes. And so I really respect the way those guys showed class and they never complained. They never made excuses. You know, they grew. They had a great year and they took their lumps in the end. Canadian national team next year? Well, we're obviously- Are you still in charge?

He could be, no. He could be- You resigned? I'm here as an advisor, whatever they need. God, you love advising people. God, it's pretty good, huh? You're like advisor Steve Nash. Yeah.

It's kind of like that gray area of like, I didn't resign, but I don't have to do anything. But I gave five summers, you know, donated those, or years at that time, still playing to try to help the program

get out of this. Now, RJ's dad runs it. Oh, you're a guy. You know, yeah, which is great.

But it's just, I mean, what do you think? Like all these, Canada, I don't know how many, would you want to say 10 or more NBA players not going to the World Cup?

I don't like it. And it's a generational thing. I just think there's no way there's, I went nuts about this on Twitter a couple weeks ago. There's no way it doesn't help a younger player to be on a different coaching staff and to play against other good players for three weeks and then to get thrown into some weird country with real.

How are you not better after that? I went to the Olympics in 2000 and it's springboard in my career. I mean. Really? Yeah. It was a huge, it was the best experience in my career. And I think that next year, I think I was a borderline all-star with Dallas. Yes.

It's a great playing experience. Like people are so, first of all, culturally, these guys have so many options. It doesn't seem to mean as much anymore in this generation because you have so many options to represent your country. Yeah. The World Cup is not the Olympics. You know, just societally, culturally.

But remember when Durant broke out in 2010 because of the World Cup. No, you know, for me, I'd love to see these guys play. And then also this whole workout culture. You know, like guys, Cup. No, you know, for me, I'd love to see these guys play. And then also this whole workout culture. You know, like, guys, it's like, you know, I don't know if it's, we've taught guys the way is have a great routine and work really hard. But that's now manifested itself into this really rigid, I got my workout guy, I go to the gym, I put in, you know, I do my drills. And that's good.

But that's one component. Like, you should be playing one-on-one and three-on-three. We should be on a couch right now. We called two old guys on the couch, just complaining about these young kids. And don't get me wrong. I love basketball, the new generation, all these young players, huge fan. Love it.

But I do think that, you know, it's got this workout culture has gotten so far in one way. It just lacks creativity and imagination now. Well, and the missing piece, which we're dancing around, is it's good to get thrown into an uncomfortable situation when you're a basketball player. It's okay to not have to go to the same gym with your trainer for three straight months playing against the same nine guys you've been playing against.

By the way, how about getting a chance to play in a game that matters in the summertime? Like, shit, my country, we don't lock down and get a stop here. My country loses. That's a little bit better than going- I'm so happy. I have four Celtics on this USA team. I'm so happy. This is great.

It is. But I'm dumbfounded by some of this stuff. Because even if you look at, so I was looking at the 08 team, which had Kobe and Kid on it. And their kid's at the tail end of his prime. Kobe's at his prime. And you have LeBron, and you have Melo, and you have Bosh. And there was one more young guy on that team. And all of them went on to have the best years of their career, or at least at that point in their careers.

Just from being around those guys and just learning different pieces of things. And that's what I think we lose with this stuff. I agree. I don't know how we can shift the mentality so that these guys recognize the opportunity. Because I get it. Like, you're getting to the end of your summer. Now you got to go off for six weeks. Like that's, that's a lot for a guy that's been traveling the country for, you know,

eight, nine months. I don't want to call out anyone, but Devin Booker, um, who's never played in a meaningful game in his career. And he looks at the team USA thing and he's like, I'm good. I'm going to work on my game. I want to get ready for the season. It's like, you need this more than anyone in the league because you're actually talented.

And you've never been in a big situation ever. This would be incredible for you. The three-point line's perfect. We need you. Take a win. Look at what happened to Duran in 2010. I mean, Devin would be amazing in this environment. He's literally perfect.

It'd be like shooting, it'd be like layups for him. What is it, like 22 feet? Would have loved to see him out there. That's all I'm saying. Who else do you have in Canada? Well, I mean, Canada. So for example, like- Olenek?

Jamal Murray, Shea Alexander. I forgot about Jamal Murray. Shea Alexander, Gilchrist. Gilchrist, sorry. I mixed him Jamal Murray. Shea Alexander, Gilchrist. Gilchrist. I mixed him up with him. Yeah. Who else? Any of RJ.

Trey Lyles, RJ. I'm going to forget some. Tristan Thompson. So those guys can play next year unless they don't qualify. They can play next year. Andrew Wiggins.

You go, there's, by the way, there's, so I think Olenek and Corey Joseph are still hopeful to play, but Olenek got hurt. But I, I,

I'm trying to think who else. Well, you got the other Rook. What's the really good Nikhil Alexander Walker? Oh yeah. He was good in summer league. He's excellent. He's a very good player,

you know, but there's, I think I'm throwing it out here, but I think there's at least 10 NBA players that aren't playing for Canada this summer. But next summer they could. Hopeful. I mean, it's the golden generation, but if they, you know,

how do we shift to where international basketball means something, not just like winning and losing, but means something in your development as a player? Because it's just lost its luster, I think. And the players have so many options these days. And nobody in their corner is saying, this is really good for you. You should produce an infomercial where it's like you and KD

and just like 12 guys who are like, my career's in a better spot because I did this, this one time at this specific point in my career. Because I look at somebody like Tatum, who I think he's a little disappointing last year for what I think his ceiling is, but I still feel like he has the chance to be really, really good.

For sure. I'm so happy he's playing in these games. All this is going to do is make him better. There's no downside at all. It's so good for him. Anyway. A totally different look at competitive basketball for him, right? It's great.

And these guys are still so young. You're in Australia. You're playing in a football stadium. Patty Mills is running a pick and roll with Andrew Bogut. Crowd's going nuts. The sight lines are weird. That's helpful. It's much better than being a gym.

Steve Nash, good luck with the Honda in this season. Thanks for being on. Thank you. We're bringing in Koppelman and Levine in one second. First, let's talk about Collection by Michael Strahan, available exclusively at JCPenney. When you look good, you feel good. Raise your game with Collection by Michael Strahan for all the bold looks to take your style to the next level.

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Visit a store near you or go to jcp.com for a collection by Michael Strahan. Explore Michael's lifestyle content on michaelstrahan.com. All right, let's bring the boys in. All right, this is a rare treat. Koppelman and Levine. I usually get Koppelman. It's hard to get two guys on the phone at the same time.

Levine gets overshadowed. He's like the Chris Bosh on the Miami team. But we're in studio. He's just grabbing rebounds and not getting enough press attention. Dishing at key times. We're through four seasons. Four seasons?

Bosh, definite Hall of Famer, right? Oh, yeah. I think he is, for sure. I think there's kind of a closet. He was more important to the two title teams than Wade was, argument, that I've been circling for like four years. We're big Chris Bosh fans, Levine and I.

Absolutely. Bosh visited set. Yeah, so what is the NBA athlete hierarchy for visiting the set versus actually just outright asking for a cameo? Well, you know, everyone always talks about how smart- Do they leave the set first and then go for the cameo or do they go right to, I want a cameo?

We do a meeting first. We always do a meeting first- You feel them out. With the person before a cameo to understand what we're dealing with, get a vibe and then figure out like how we can set the person up to win. You know, all Simmons wants is a cameo, but he only wants the right, here's the great Bill Simmons and why he's so good at what he does and running the all of media is that,

I think you're our generation's Howard Stern, by the way. You're like the QR. I think you're the, I I think you're our generations Howard. I'm trying. Because you just need the compendium book. You need to start releasing those books that are just interviews with people. Yeah. Now, like you just take a bunch of these pods and just make that a book. Oh, that'd be fun. And then, well, yeah. Like that's, and then that'll just, you get a huge advance. Yeah. I have to do no work at all. And I pretend I wrote a book. Yeah. You write an introduction. You get some of your friends, you get Jimmy to write the foreword like he did for Howard, and you're done.

That'd be great. You should totally do that. But the thing of it is Simmons is so good, Dave, because he's like, I want a cameo, but I want it to be only if I don't have to go. You're like, only if it's in my podcast. And Axe comes here. I'm sorry, I just had a good idea.

Axe on my podcast. It's just a winner idea. Makes a lot of sense. Axe is writing a book. I'm sorry. I just had a good idea. Axe on my podcast. It's just a winner idea. Makes a lot of sense. Axe is writing a book. Like I saw the Rockets owner, he's Tillman Furtada. Yeah. He wrote some book.

It's like, it's called like Success is a Privilege or it's got one of those like aggro rich guy titles. So Axe could write a book. And it's his books like Axe to Grind,

something like that. No, it does write itself. You should just come and spend a month in the writer's room with us. I want to do that. That'd be amazing. We just need you in the, do you think,

you know what you need in your writer's room is a middle-aged white guy. Those are the hardest things to find. It's true. Hardest things to find. How close are you to 50? Three weeks. It's happening right now. things to find. How close are you to 50? Three weeks. It's happening right now.

Yeah. So exciting. I really like, I'm battling a lot of stuff with this. You fell on things? Why? Well, you hit it, right? When'd you hit it? I'm 53.

Do you hit it too? Oh yeah. 51. I'm 51 and a half. Well, because there's these little marks, right? That you hit in life. Like the 21, it's all gravy. 25 even is awesome.

You can rent a car without having to have like. But then when the first athlete that's like in your age group gets either a little washed up or hurt or goes down, it's really like alarming. And then from down there, it's just a series of anti-victories from that point on. It's true. Brian had such a massive, massive meltdown at 40. I mean, he's a year and a half older than me and he had such an epic collapse that he really sort of did it for both of us. As I approached, I was like, well, I mean, I can't even sort of, I can't even dabble

with having a problem with 40 because he made such a mess of it. He set such a high bar for overacting. I was so pathetic. I mean, it was really ridiculous. I was actually fired up for 40. I was in a really good place career-wise. He set such a high bar for overreaction. I was so pathetic. I mean, it was really ridiculous. I was actually fired up for 40. I was in a really good place career-wise. He came 50 on that fire. He skated through 50 like Eric

Hyden or something, and I wrestled with that one a little. That was not a good time at all. It's hard to see the upsides. I'm not feeling good about it because it's the last one before every birthday after that, you're just one step closer. Well, you think about-

To the window in the nursing home, like that kind of has an ocean view, but not really. I mean, just think about all the pro wrestlers dead by our age. Right. I mean- And not because of a plane crash. No, steroids and violence.

They just expired. Yeah. Their time on this earth was just, it was just over. I got to say, I'm always surprised now when older wrestlers die because I assume all of them are already dead. Like Harley Race died a few weeks ago. I was like, Harley Race was alive? It's like legendary smoker drinker guy. You get to have a twofer on that because then when Terry Funk is saying how sad he is, you get to be like, wait, Terry Funk's alive too?

Right, right. You get the twofer. And Mick Foley, all these dudes. Well, Foley's much younger than those guys. Yeah, but he was hardcore for 20 years. Is your son over it or is he still watching? No, he's still into it. He's become, he's at that stage now

where he thinks he knows more than anybody who's running any of AW and WWE, NXT. Like he always thinks he has a better answer than whatever their plots are. He's a sharp. He really is. He's not a mark. What do you think of his answers?

Maybe he has it. No, he really is. You realize that by the time you hit 11, you could probably book wrestling. He could book NXT probably for three months. Yeah, I think that's a great, you should make him the mini commish of, the mini commish of NXT.

But AEW, are you feeling like AEW I think that's a great, you should make him the mini commish of, the mini commish of Mets goals. But AEW, are you feeling like AEW is where the action is now? Well, so I think they made a mistake. I think doing a weekly TV show is, you know, that's like going 52 weeks a year with Billions. Like at some point they were in a nice spot with just like these impact pay-per-views and kind of floating in and out.

When you're on every week, that's a different animal. You really need a big enough roster. You got to really string together long storylines. Omega and, to me, Omega and Jericho are two of the more fascinating men to watch now. Becky Lynch, to me, is the most fascinating person in wrestling. Yeah. But on the guy side, I do think that they have these two dudes who are the most interesting to watch, Jericho and Omega. So that feels like it can go for a while, no?

See, I think it could, but I think wrestling's in a weird spot right now because the wrestling we grew up with, they're just playing to every stereotype. The characters are over the top and they can basically get away with whatever they want. I mean, the Iron Sheik became what was he? Him and Sergeant Slaughter. They were Iraqi sympathizers and stuff like that would never fly

now. And now it's like they have to have their villains kind of be these anti-hero type, but they can't really go for it. And I think they're missing a golden They have to have their villains kind of be these, you know, anti-hero type. But they can't really go for it. And I think they're missing a golden opportunity. Because we're in the trigger generation now. Wrestling should be like taking advantage of that more than anybody. By the way, Trigger is a great character name.

Trigger. Dude, we should write a really cool bit. Trigger. A sensitive wrestler. No, no. He's the opposite. He's the opposite. He's the trigger.

Oh, he triggers? Yeah, that's what you'd ask him. Are you saying you're sensitive? No, the trigger you're the triggered yeah he's going after the 20 somethings he should be masked so that because he's too he knows the people knew who he was that's true he's a mask the the trigger has to be a masked wrestler and it's like an anonymous twitter account yeah no then we reveal who it really is you know what i mean and it's got to be surprising who it turns out to be. Oh, yeah.

So it's like, oh my God. It's triangle coming back. The mask almost comes off during the matches, right? Like somebody would almost pull it off and then he'd get out of it. Oh, because if people find out who he is, everyone's going to pile on him online. Honestly, this is true.

If Paul and Vince don't do this, they're really missing out. Trigger comes out and he does 10 minutes on how great this Chappelle special was. The audience is going nuts. The audience is crying. He comes out and does old Andrew Dice claim this. He just does them word for word.

Hickory dickory dock. Everyone's losing their mind. The young wrestlers are crying. They're having traumatic experiences. Trigger could be... I'm trying to think what wrestler would be the perfect one to do this. Everyone's losing their mind. The young wrestlers are crying. They're having traumatic experiences. You could trigger is, it could be. I'm trying to think what wrestler would be the perfect thing to do this.

Kurt Angle could do it. With a mask. Kurt Angle with a mask. Wrestling did used to reflect like kind of things that were going on back in the day, right? The other thing is it's too broad. The other problem,

look, I think they made a good decision bringing Bischoff and Heyman in to now. You're going deep dive now. Well, those guys are brought in to program Raw and SmackDown now. And I mean, I could switch. We could do this about Haruki Murakami,

but I'm not sure that everyone wants to hear that. I'm saying we could switch to literature if you want. I'm just amazed you guys have time to follow wrestling. Levine seems like he's out. I don't really.

He's out. I have to. He checked out two minutes ago. To grimy, the thing that WWE is missing, and I think even your son, when we watched it as kids, it was barely lit.

It was, even if you knew the matches were rigged, you believe there was danger. It doesn't, it's not dangerous now. That's the problem. It's not creepy. It's supposed to be creepy,

but we live in an age. Where there's not the same kind of mystery with. There's not, right? Creepy. There's not really, kind of mystery with... There's not, right? Creepy. There's not really... They're trying to... When you try to appeal to everyone, you kind of risk losing a core audience, right?

You should do a creepy billion season. All right. Pitch it out. Pitch it out. Like a Halloween episode? Is that what you're talking about? Like, wow, G-Moddy. Chuck could... You know, the S&M thing could go really wrong.

Right in the wrong hands. He meets the wrong dominatrix. He starts harvesting people. Do you think, Dave, you and I love Mindhunter so much? Because it is like the creepiest show on TV. Are you a Mindhunter fan? I'm not. It really bothers people in my life.

You just don't like it or you haven't tried? I gave it one whirl, but I might need to go on another date. Just watch season two. Just jump right in. Is it still Fincher? Is he still doing it? Yeah, he's having a lead.

He's wrapped like half of them this season. Do you like Zodiac or you don't like Zodiac? I do. So if I like Zodiac, I'm going to like Mindhunter? Yeah.

You know, Chris Ryan's going to be so mad if you guys talk to me into Mindhunter because he's been like hitting me with a two-by-four about it for... But I wasn't doing it to advise it. I'm just like saying Mindhunter, because he's been like hitting me with a two by four about it. But I wasn't doing it advised.

I'm just like saying Mindhunter is really good. So creepy billion season that evil dominatrix, that's all I got. I don't know what else could happen. Yeah. How do you sketch this out though? So like, do you have in your head now how many seasons it is? We have, we have variations, you know, we have a way that it could end like after next season, after the following. Um, but you know, every season we get together, usually, uh, Brian and, and I come up with

like a starting point and we'll probably come up with the end point also. And we start meeting with our writer's room. We start talking about it. Once we find like a sort of pivot point in the middle, then the details start to fall in. So it's really like a two-year plan? It's like a starting energy thing and then an end point of a season.

You always are rolling through knowing, you kind of do every idea you can in the upcoming season. So right now we are, like we've written the first episode of season season. So right now we are like, we've, we've written the first episode of season five and I wrote that episode and we've outlined most of this season, the big events this season. And then as you're going, you kind of start to have ideas that tell you where it could, you know, where it could go. We're, this is season five.

We definitely know how to tell the story through season seven. So you go into like season four last year, season five this year, and in a sentence you're trying to think, this is what we want to accomplish this season. So last season was the, Taylor is now going against Axe. This is our main plot this year.

How are we resolving this? Yeah, we usually, we have a thematic every season that just we know that expresses sort of the emotional terrain yeah and then you try to and then you know um i know you know this but i don't know if people know we do a tremendous amount of research so that's part of how you part of the way we discover it and you can do this in a show that's like going on now in a way is we meet with the people, men and women, in this industry,

both sides of the industry, all sides of these industries, and we just kind of get them talking. And they give you tidbits. A lot. They're like, there's a recession coming in nine months. You guys should tackle rich guys getting ready. But beyond recession,

they'll explain, they'll give us language. The psyche of what they're dealing with and what their challenges are. Yeah. That's the stuff that's really valuable. And because the show is in that world, because the show has some cultural throw

and because the people in that world all watch it, they want to tell us the next thing. So they want to nudge you in the directions that they would want to see in the show. They want to tell you like, here's what's really, here's how, you know, here's why I think this, these people are doing it wrong or this part of the industry is going to be dead. And you know, that guy really doesn't have a lot of money and he's really just trying

to act like, they'll give you all sorts stuff. And they'll also say fascinating shit. You know, so many little quotes that are in the show come from like something some billionaire will say sitting on our couch. So you're basically doing a podcast with them, but you're not taping it. And you're just trying to get info out of them. Basically, and you know, the writers have a chance to ask them questions.

So it's a whole group of people asking them questions. And, you. And sometimes the answer is the conscious answer, but sometimes they reveal some unconscious answer. That's really interesting. And we went on a trip. A guy we know took us on a trip this week. I think you saw the picture where we met Coach Belichick. But the reason we met Coach- I loved it. Sick. I felt like you were finally broken. I texted you immediately.

You're like, oh man. I know. Picture you and Belichick. I imagine how much it hurt. Me, it really did. Dave likes him. Dave likes the team. The Pats. I admire him. Well, Dave appreciates excellence and consistency and success. But like all these guys just break you down. They do break you down. In other words, there are things I would have said about Belichick last week, but proximity, you know, that column you wrote a long time ago, which we've all not lived up to. I remember when you were a writer. You were a great writer, by the way. Back in the day.

You were a great writer. Yeah. Really, people, kids who are listening now don't understand how good a writer you were. Which isn't such a compliment, because really what it's saying is you've abandoned all of your true. Yeah. The true thing that made you special. Other than that, I'm fine. Well, at your core, the thing that you are,

the thing Goldman never gave up until his dying day. It's going to come back. I'm just trying to hang this. But when you did and you talked about the danger of the proximity, you said, I'm never going to be the guy. Now we all became the guy, but you said, I'm never going to be the guy who hangs out with the players. I'm never going to be the guy. Now, we all became the guy, but you said, I'm never going to be the guy who hangs out with the players. I'm never going to know him.

Because you talked about the sort of gift of that kind of objectivity. But the truth is, as we grow and evolve, you also couldn't tell the lie. When you became rich and successful, you couldn't tell the lie that you weren't. You are. So that's the experience you're looking at it from now. That also changed my idea of not getting to know people who were in there. It actually was the most interesting thing I did this decade was probably get to know a lot of different people. It's the best thing ever. It made your thing better.

But the proximity, the challenge of proximity, as you know, and it happens to us. We have to be careful about it with billionaires. And it happens with Bill Belichick. Before meeting him, I would have been like, oh, if I met that guy, I'll definitely be like, hey, cheating Bill. Right. And then you meet him and of course he's smart and charming and engaging. And you're never going to say cheating Bill to him because he's this great, brilliant genius.

There's also a white light above him as you're talking. There is a halo effect. You can see it, right? Absolutely. It's a halo in the form of six rings. You loved him though, right, Dave? And it was hilarious because he was like really well-dressed and totally eloquent. It was like everything the NFL wants out of him.

And he'll just give them like a sweatshirt and a grunt at a press conference. And then he'll go in private and be like a great gentleman. He's weirdly misunderstood though because- He's so smart. No, because every once in a while, there'll be a press conference. He's the worst press conference guy ever. But then somebody will ask him a cool question. Yes.

And he'll answer it for like two minutes. Well, that's what it is. And it's like football school. And it's like, whoa. Yes, it's a moratorium on bad questions. Yeah. And those people should- That's what Popovich does.

If I was going to go into those conferences, my challenge would be like, I got to get this guy talking. I'm not going to give him something that shuts me down, you know, in a one word answer because it's the 80th time somebody's asked him.

That would have been my strategy with Popovich on the sidelines. I would have gone every time like, what bottle of wine does your team remind you of tonight?

Like something like, he would have been like, oh, fuck, I got to answer that. It's like a Barolo from 1998. That's so good. Like, of course he's going to answer that. That's so good. Of course he's going to answer that.

That's so good. Yeah. Yeah. But so the way we got to go was some guy we know who's like billionaire adjacent was having an event. And he asked us if we would come speak to a group of people. Billionaire adjacent. What's happening, you guys? On his way.

He's on his way. There were all these billionaires. On his way. There were all these billionaires. So he flew us up there with them. We did the whole, know thing and then we got to watch all these guys around and women one incredibly successful woman um we got to watch them all around belichick and you get to see the dynamics and you know if you're a writer as you know you you you're in it but you're also observing it and then you just that stuff just you, you, you're in it, but you're also observing it. And then you just,

that stuff just all surfaces back when you're writing. Like suddenly you'll remember three words that somebody said, or the way that they wanted to make sure Belichick knew they were special or the way someone tried to act like they, they didn't want to tell you how many airplanes they had. And then they let it out. This, this, I was talking to this one And then they let it out. I was talking to this one guy. Because they wanted to. Well, I was talking to this one guy who owns a private company. And they said that they had four private jets, the company. And so I said, wow, that's amazing.

The company or you? And he goes, well, I mean, what difference does it make, really? You know, it's all the same. And you're just like, oh, awesome. Just awesome. Yes. And the closer you can get, the more you can unearth them. Like, I think really what we're doing with Billions in showing these billionaires is it is like the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park.

It's like they've not really been shown in the way that they are. Yeah. And because we got to get close to them, we're able to put them out there. Who remembers the tidbits better, you or Levine? Like, is one of you, like, writing them down on cocktail napkins, or are you rehashing them? He'll get them talking, and I'll be writing them down. Oh, really?

Oh, yeah. Like, secretly, or are you pretending you're texting? Just sort of, like, in a low-key way. One of these guys called us, a guy who gave us huge stuff, a guy we love, actually, not a bad guy, good guy. But he gave us over a series of five dinners over every season we have dinner with this guy. And he gives us reams of material. And this year we used something that was very close to the bone.

And he calls up and he just goes, I figured the whole thing out. He goes, I'm sitting there having a conversation with you and I'm laughing. And he goes, Levine is just sitting there quiet as can be. And he's just writing down every just sitting there quiet as can be. And he's just writing down every goddamn word I say so you can use it against me. And I was like, yeah, but you know, you're telling us. And he goes, yeah, yeah, but I forget. I think I'm just-

Yeah, he was like, oh, you got me good on that one. Yeah, then we had dinner with him the other night and he, but he still told us a lot of stuff. For these billionaires, what like three things are you the most jealous of other than like the crazy amount of money? Like when just being in that world, what do you look around and go, oh man. All right.

That would be cool. I mean, the plane is the obvious thing, right? Yeah. I mean, what a great luxury those guys have with the planes. They just have this sort of like ease of mind, right? Like they don't have to worry about anything for maybe generations, you know, like if they want to pass it on, they could take care of like endless amounts of family. Yeah. That's something. What's another one for you? The material things don't,

it's not, it's what David said. It's the fact that they're, but it's weird. The thing that's the most that they have that most people can't have is access, right? They have every person, you got to really understand it. I know you do, Bill, but like, you got to really think about it. There's nobody who's further than one phone call away from them. And so to me, the idea that they want to talk to the prime minister of a country, that prime minister will have dinner with them tomorrow night, anywhere in the world world because there are all these people who they owe favors to or they could do favors to they get to them also many of these people especially the ones who didn't inherit it they have a remarkable set of skills i mean with some of them it's literally like i mentioned mark andreessen to you dave and

i think he's maybe the smartest person we know he's a billionaire um he and i've done each other's pods we've known each other for a very long time now, or a long time, not a very long time, but a long time. And I mean, it's just, honestly, sitting with them, you realize they're able to access a snapshot of the world in their minds, and they're able to synthesize information in a way that I never could. And that, you know, that thing of being around people who are an order of magnitude smarter than you are for me to, you know, like in the Highlander, the quickening, if I could just have, I mean, that's the thing Mark and Jason was building the internet. I was watching the Highlander 10 times, but like, you know, so unfortunately, like, but that idea that, that they're able to see the matrix in a way that it doesn't

matter how smart we are as sort of like guys in the world, it's an order of magnitude different. And that to me, it's that, it's the ability to apprehend the world the way that some of them do. Because the material stuff, the access, which I think is the most rarefied thing, we all have a version of that. My thing would be the secret handshake club that exists where they all kind of know each other, which I think it's like this, it's like the Soho house for human beings. But don't you think you're in it?

They're just passing like, you want to use my plane on Monday? I have courtsides. Well, when I'm in Golden State, you give me your courtsides, I'll give you mine at MSG. And it's like Craigslist for kajillionaires. You're correct. Don't you feel access in a way is the best part of your life? Like the fact that you can- But that's a whole other level.

Yes, but you can glimpse at it. Yeah, yeah. And don't you find that's one of the things you didn't know ahead of time was going to be available, but is actually maybe the coolest thing that you can meet the people who fascinate you and learn from them and be around them? Yeah, I agree. The Epstein thing is the biggest thing to happen in rich guy circles this year. Does that trickle on the show? Dave, do you want to give your answer to this? Staying away? Everybody says to us, you know what, you've got to do a story on Epstein.

And we're like, why would we do that? That's just nothing that we want to spend time with. I mean, you don't want to spend time with that. No, you have a fun, entertaining show. Yeah. I don't want an Epstein subplot. That would be terrible. We're staying away.

We're not going to, we know what works about the show. We know what people like. No, you don't know what works because you had the sports team plot and you fucking threw it away. What a huge mistake that was. You had it. It was right there. Axe, NFL.

He was sitting there and you punted it in three episodes. It wasn't for him. He wasn't allowed to have that. The two things you love are writing scripts and the NBA. I would say those are your top two. I love those things.

I don't understand what needs to happen for Axe to be your Dolan proxy and you can get all your Knicks frustrations out. Just sit in there. Season eight. Season nine? Season that you come in the writer's room. Season eight. When you're ready to come to the writer's room,

we'll do the sports. The NBA is expanding. And where are they going to go? Where do they go? They're going to Seattle and Vegas. Yeah. And they offer Axe a chance to own the Vegas team for like 2.5.

Did Daniel Negreanu end up buying the hockey team? Does he have a piece of the hockey team? For a while. He might. He was part of getting the hockey team there. No, this is Axe just cutting a check for 2.5. I don't know the name of the hockey team. The Vegas Knights.

The Vegas, Las Vegas Golden Knights. Are they good? Because you know the problem with the NBA team there. No, this is Axe just cutting a check for 2-5. What's the name of the hockey team? The Vegas Knights. The Vegas, Las Vegas Golden Knights. Are they good? Because you know the problem with the NBA right now. Stanley Cup Finals, their first year. They were one game away. This was told to me by a rich person. The problem with selling these teams now is that the prices are so high, very few people have the money to just write the check.

So the guy who just bought the Nets, the Alibaba guy, that guy's fucking rich. But that's also one of the biggest companies in the world. There's not a lot of those guys floating around. So if you're the Celtics and you're like, not that the Celtics are selling, but if Wick was like, all right, I'm going to sell. I want two, four. There's like seven people on the earth

who would like basketball and have that money. So we are really interested in this idea of not just insanely wealthy billionaires, but what that next level up is. That is something that we will be talking about this season on the show. Oh, so I'm stumbling into something. Yeah, we're very interested in that idea. Because I noticed that with Portland's for sale and Ellison is the leading candidate. Right, he can do it.

He can write a check. And they're like, yeah, he's worth 50 bill. So Blazers are like for two? Like, what is that? That's like he's going to like get sushi tonight that he would spend $2 billion. Well, Josiah is worth over $10 billion. So that's why he could go take the second half of the Nets.

Right. And that's also how he got Dur the second half of the Nets. Right. And that's also how he got Durant. I mean, the amazing thing is how it's improved. So Mark Lazzari is a guy who has been very good to us over the course of the show. And he lets us talk about it. He always comes to the writer's room. He spends a lot of time with us telling us the way the world works. But if you think about it, Lazzari bought that team for like half a bill.

He said he got them to pay for stuff. Now it's worth like a billion six or two billion. His own words said, I overpaid for it because in an auction situation, the guy who wins it always overpays.

Yeah. You're paying more than anybody else. He said, but it turned out to be a great move. Well, and they got the

state through for the arena a little bit too. It's just been a wonderful move for, you gotta, have you had him on the podcast? Well, he,

let's be honest, they fucking stumbled into Giannis. I mean, that was like, I give Mark a lot of credit. But he's triple, Giannis triples the value of that franchise.

I give Mark a lot of credit. Plus Giannis is never like gonna leave. I actually think he's like the rare. Have you had Lazary on the podcast? No, I have not.

You gotta do that. Should I do that? He's great. He's great and owns that team. And he's a self-made billionaire. So entertaining. Grew up in a tiny little apartment.

He's a fascinating guy. I love talking to him. As Mallory would say about Bobby Axelrod, he came from nothing. Okay. You have to put the word in for me. Is Mallory here? Can we meet? We've never met in person.

You can meet Mallory. Yeah, we're wrapping up because Kyle has to go to the Dodger game. When do you guys back in LA? Well, I'm going to come to do the Godfather 2 with you at some point oh you're just announcing that that's going to be a big deal you said it on Twitter no I know but we didn't announce it publicly

Twitter's not public listen the rewatchables peaked this week it was incredible Sorkin talking about Butch you don't think we're going to defeat that with the 2 so me you, and Chris doing Godfather 2. What's the over-under?

Levine, you're an impartial. How many hours is that? Two and a half? I think it's an easy two and a half. I mean, what are you looking to hit? How many episodes? Well, we have one where the rewatchable will never be longer than the actual movie was, which we've broken like two or three times.

That's really in danger. I mean, just the two of us alone talking about two. I have an hour just on Pacino finding out that Kay had an abortion. I know that I have 20 minutes on the outdoor cafe in Havana with Fredo and Michael. That is the key scene in the whole movie. And people overlook what's going on in that scene because most people don't even understand why Fredo brought the money. You're letting it out of the box early.

I'm not going to say why. Most people don't know. Save it for the pod. I'll save it. So you're coming back. I have to come for that. I committed at the beginning of the year. I'm going to do it.

But I was talking- We have to go, but look at Fidgety, Kyle is. But I had a soccer tournament this week with my daughter, killing the whole day on Sunday because she only had one game and she wasn't feeling well, so she's sleeping. I banged out. I was doing football research. Rounders was on one of the Showtime channels.

I watched it again. Awesome. I don't understand. Like, why am I not, how do I not get tired of certain movies? I don't, what revelation am I going to have for Rounders at this point in my life? I've watched it probably as many times as you guys did.

It's so awesome, though. I don't understand it. It's the beginning of our friendship. I mean, it did start our friendship. I know, maybe that's part of it. It did, no, it's like, you were in watching it over and over then, but there's somehow, for guys our it means that movie means something about friendship and then the fact

that the three of us did become friends from that um is one of the amazing little side notes i have to ask you a question and then we'll go jj reddick was on my podcast and yeah or and or someone it was jj i think talking about not asking me why I like watching Houston play basketball. And I really liked watching them. Do you not like watching that team? I dislike it. Right. Why?

I like team basketball. I don't like one-on-one. Never liked the one-on-one stuff. MJ was the only guy I really kind of succumbed to with the one-on-one stuff. Do you think Harden is arguably the best player or second best player in the league, or you don't? I think he's in the top three or four. Okay. But I don't know if his style translates to four straight playoff rounds that you have

to win, because there's been clear signs that each season in the playoffs, as it goes along, his production goes down. Oh, this is the very last thing, and then I know you have to go. Look at Kyle just move again. The last thing. Look, now it's, oh, that's my phone. The last thing and then i know you have to go kyle just moved again the last thing look now it's oh

that's my phone the last thing is uh i'm uh someone just sent you a link to gary goldman's comedy special the great depression yeah it's the best comedy special the last 10 years i just have to say that i want to put that out there now before the special airs you got to watch it it's gonna destroy you okay it is the most he. He's a New England guy. Yeah. Goal, it's all about how he saved his life through this comedy stuff, and it's not saccharine. It is brutally honest, hilarious. I saw the taping,

and it's one of the great nights of comedy I ever had. And he just texted me today, not knowing I was seeing you, and he's like, HBO sent my special to Simmons. And I said, oh, that's too weird. I'll watch it this weekend. Yeah, you gotta watch it. It's great. Is it going to trigger anybody? Congrats on the new deal. Was it announced? We took a new deal with Showtime. Yes. Thank you. Congrats. Thank you. Always happy for you guys. Thanks for coming on. Thanks, Bill. Thank you.

All right. We're going to bring in Chris Ryan in one second. First, Pepsi takes all NFL celebrations to the next level, whether's a hail mary touchdown a defensive stop on the goal line or a super bowl win super bowl win love those let's go kyle love those when it's time to celebrate it's time to crack open a pepsi i was thinking about my uh my favorite touchdown celebration moments um billy white shoes Johnson, when I was a little kid, they used to cut in, or they would do the halftime. They would run around, show all the different touchdowns from all the different games in like three minutes. And if he scored, he would do this thing where he like swayed his legs back and forth. It was like this dance. You can YouTube it.

I'd never seen anything like it. He immediately became my hero. That was the first touchdown celebration I really remember. It led to all the other stuff in the 80s. He never gets credit for it. He was like the Jackie Robinson of TV celebrations. It all led to the Super Bowl shuffle, all that stuff. Billy White Shoes Johnson, you were my guy.

Hey, Pepsi, the official sponsor of the NFL, reminds you to always be celebrating. You can celebrate like Billy White Shoes Johnson. Go check that out on YouTube. All right, let's bring Chris Ryan in. Chris Ryan is here. You've heard of him.

I had to get it all. He's getting it out of the way. Team USA, though. You're not as into it as I am. Well, I getting it out of the way Team USA though you're not as into it as I am well I just want to start off the Team USA talk by saying we've all heard the news about Tatum possibly retiring and I just want to tell you Bill

he doesn't owe you anything he's only 19 and he's got his whole life ahead of him he may want to make some different choices that would be amazing if he rolled his ankle and then said, I'm good. I'm retiring. And then people are like, congrats to him, man. This is great.

Can't do it. I want to talk about Team USA. They had a game in Turkey, which we were taping this on a Tuesday. I got up super early today. I watched the whole game. I love international basketball. I might be in the minority, but I love having the 12 NBA guys trying to figure out who the hierarchy of the guys are,

how the coach is going to make everybody happy. And then also just how different is the basketball. It's so much more physical. It's always in a weird stadium. There's a horn blaring. There's fans cheering. And I think you can find out a lot about some of these guys. And there's a moment in this Turkey game where first it was like,

Turkey's not going away. And then near the end, it was like, holy shit, Turkey might win. What are we going to do? And it was really interesting watching these different guys try to grab the baton.

It's especially interesting for this team because it's a team of B options. Yeah. And so like, who's going to become the A option of these Bs? Is it Middleton? Is it Tatum? Is it Kemba? Guys who maybe they were the stars on their team or maybe their team isn't that big or hasn't played in that many crucial games. So it's

fascinating to see how are you going to decide who's the guy down the stretch? I remember you've been talking about this for like 15 years with these team USAs. I love it. But really you're trying to decide between Kobe and LeBron and Durant. And now you're talking about Middleton and Miles Turner. Well, it turned out to be Kemba in overtime

and that was the biggest reason they won. It's kind of a flawed team, not by anyone's fault because so many guys backed out. But you have Kemba and Mitchell who are the two most talented guys in the team. They have to play together, but they're an odd fit.

And neither of them are really somebody most talented guys in the team. They have to play together, but they're an odd fit. Yeah. You know, and neither of them are really somebody who can stop just the generic, all these international point guards that just come off in an assembly line who kind of know how, they're all kind of a little Goran Dragici, little Jose Calderonish. Yeah.

And they can all run a pick and it's just hard to stay in front of those guys. They kind of figured out a weird way to play together where Mitchell was. So he's crashing the boards. He's basically looks like he really does look like Oh five Dwayne Wade. Like he, he looks like he's gone to another level athletically, but it's a weird backcourt.

Tatum is almost there kind of de facto small ball center slash four, but they need him on the court because he does a lot of stuff. Miles Turner was having moments. And then they were trying to figure out that other spot. And in crunch time in the Turkey game, it was Joe Harris. And he was just out there until he fouled out. So they were basically going Mitchell Kemba, Joe Harris, and then Tatum and Turner or Barnes or Middleton and Tatum.

That's like the worst version of the Avengers. Right. These are Earth's heroes? Really? Yeah. Well, I mean, those guys are really into it though. Yeah. No, I think it's great. I actually like, I prefer it this way. Me too. I wish it was like Olympics.

It was like under 23s plus one, which is how the soccer teams usually do it. I love it when the young guys are playing. I know that the thing is, is that we have to decide what our appetite is for possibly not winning. Yeah. Pop made some mistakes,

not to criticize a guy with, I think, what does he have, five titles? Yeah. But I think we're at the stage now, maybe they learned this in this Turkey game. Like, pick your nine guys. This isn't AYSO. This isn't like Timmy gets to play and Bobby and Charlie.

It almost feels like they should have done that way earlier. Like, you should have just been like, everybody get your excuses out of why you can't play and let me get my team so I can figure out who's who rather than at the last second, like, De'Aaron Fox leaves and at the last second, this person's leaving. So there's not a lot of flow

because guys are getting shuttled in and out. It's way more physical than the NBA, which I actually kind of like. But it's one of those things where if you get fouled, you really got fouled. But then they also have these weird rules in there. Like you can have unsportsmanlike fouls. They call it a flopping foul in the turkey game

and shit like that. So the vibe is different. It's a little more frantic. It's way more physical. And I think it's interesting to put some of these guys in this little fishbowl and watch them swim around. Tatum's been in big playoff games before, but, and Mitchell has,

I guess like the Oklahoma city series, but Mitchell in the regulation. But it's coming off like a down year. Like he's almost like got the gold medal in narrative already because Mitchell somehow has emerged out of this summer when everybody, you've now said the Wade thing a bunch of times. I think Wendy was like, he looks like everybody's talking about Mitchell at the camp.

Everybody thinks Mike Conley is like going to single handedly, like bring him back into all-star status. Well, he hasn't gotten to the all-star game yet. So we'll introduce him to like the all-star class. So it's kind of interesting to see, like we've kind of crowned him. Let's see it now.

Right. So then Turkey, they need him. And two straight plays. He's kind of in that Dwayne Wade spot and he couldn't deliver and and I thought Tatum

who hasn't shot well at all he actually made just a couple really good basketball plays Mitchell Tatum and Middleton were like 8th for 32 in regular

none of them are shooting well it's weird the stadium's weird the whole vibe it's a good experience I think but but Tatum,

his two-way play and Mitchell's two-way play, Mitchell crashed on the boards for these offensive rebounds. He basically got the offensive rebound that saved the game that led to Tatum getting fouled. I just like it. I like seeing these guys. And I did a tweet during the game about, I'm still mad Devin Booker's not on the team. I'm just mad as a basketball fan. I think it's good for him. I think it would have been great for the team. And I think he's somebody that in the game today, I think it would have been him and Donovan Mitchell on crunch time.

And I actually liked the fit together, but Devin Booker, I don't feel like anybody could have stopped him in these games. But he didn't play. So what was the story behind that? So the story was that he he was a little banged up at the end of last year

and he told Jerry Colangelo like don't even invite me I'm not gonna play I wanna get healthy okay which I get but their season they won 17 games last year

he's been in the league four years he hasn't had a relevant NBA moment yet he was in Kentucky for one year they

I think he made the final four and they lost to Marquette. And that's been his entire kind of nut-crunching basketball experience, right? Yeah. He's like a basketball reference all-star. Yeah. So you come out of the game, the NBA, they ran some clip after the Turkey game, and it was like Miles Turner and he's just walking out like whoa that was one of the most amazing games i've ever played in like the atmosphere is incredible and they go to joe harris and he was like oh my god that was like nut cutting time like you just can't tell me you're not better off playing in games like that so with the booker

thing i just think, why wouldn't Nash and I talked about this earlier, but my attitude was why wouldn't he want it? So I did a snarky tweet about it. And then Tatum got hurt like 20 minutes later. That leads to the whole predictable sports blog. So we're like, oh, the tweet backlash. Backlashed on Simmons. Like the sports blogs, come on. Like the sports flags. Come on, do better sports blogs. Meanwhile, like Tatum could get hurt anywhere. He could get hurt in a pickup game.

He could get hurt. You know, Boogie Cousins got hurt. Like where was he? He was just like in Vegas. If you're playing basketball, you get hurt. That doesn't mean you shouldn't play for Team USA. But then it was like, oh, well, see, this is why Booker shouldn't have played Team USA it's like no that's actually not why

it would have been really good for him to play where do you stand on this whole thing oh I think that like it should be it's like a huge not even like an honor to play for your country as much as it's like why wouldn't you want to play on the world stage like that you know like is it really that demanding and it's like

we also like there's plenty of times over the course of an NBA season that we can buy you back some rest you know what I mean so last time I checked Phoenix is gonna go like what 25 and 57 again yeah and also I think you can see this across sports too like when you see a group of guys who have been through some kind of crucible like that like you often see in the Champions League where it's like players who are young players just like wind up finding out what it's like to try and go in and beat Barcelona or beat Manchester City or whatever soccer is a great analogy and you have to go in there and it's like with and and they wind up their careers change like there's a guy like so I I we were I was just talking about this on the ringers soccer pod on FC we were talking about like

are there any players on Liverpool that like still get kind of beat up by the fans, even though they just won the champions league. And I was like, not really like even the guys who have made mistakes are kind of seen as cult figures now, but like there's guys like the captain of the team, Jordan Henderson,

who a lot of Liverpool fans had a lot of problems with. They're like, never again. He, he won on the biggest possible stage. So no matter how bad he, well, he plays against like Burnley on a Saturday,

he's my guy. And I think that that would happen for a lot of these guys on the Team USA, too. It's like, hey, man, I saw that guy win. I saw that guy win on an international stage in a FIBA game. So I'm not going to really crush him when he's, I don't know, going in second gear on a Wednesday night in November. Right. I do think the resume should factor into it a little bit, right?

Like even Donovan Mitchell, he's been in the playoffs the last couple of years. They have a chance to win the title this year or at least make the finals potentially in the West. A lot of people are picking them as a sleeper. And if he had said, I might have to play 100 games this season. I can't also add the Team USA stuff to that. You know, I really want to win the title. And I put some thought into this, and this is the best decision for me. I could see it.

I might disagree with him, but I can see that case. But he hasn't made an all-star game yet. Like, he should want to play for Team USA. I would rather he play Team USA. But if he said that, I'd be like, all right. I think when you're on a lottery team, and you've been on a lottery team for four years, and you're going to be on a lottery team against next year, at some point, don't you want to be in some awesome competitive games that have real stakes? Or do people not think that way anymore?

Because I'm genuinely asking. I think it's disappointing. I think it's a sincere issue if you're like, I'm worried about, like, Booker has had a lot of injuries. And if he's saying like, look, I'm worried about my hamstring going pretty early on in the season or something

if I go do this. I think that's a legitimate concern. And I think like wear and tear is a legitimate concern. But if you're Devin Booker, like, I think the general perception of you is that like basketball nerds kind of like watching you play and think that you have like great stats, but like for the most part, nobody knows who Devin Booker is. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think Devin Booker is a household name. And I think that Phoenix is kind of a joke. This

is a chance to actually play like, you're right. Maybe the most meaningful basketball he's played since Kentucky. You're going to find out something about yourself as a player. Like I guarantee those dudes in that Turkey game. But I wonder if that scares them off. I wonder if Booker's like, if pop benches me because I'm not playing defense, which is something like no son's coach ever seems to do. Yeah. I wonder if that's like worse than not going at all. Well, I mean, I don't know. If Joe Harris is getting played over me, maybe that's a worse look for me. Yeah, seriously. I'm worried about my hamstring. Well, didn't they say that

with De'Aaron Fox when he played six minutes that last game and then left the next day because he had some slight injury? But De'Aaron Fox seems like the type of dude who's like, I'll do anything to play on this team. But it seemed like he was losing a spot to Derek White. Yeah, which is like is that part of, is that like deep state spurs right there?

The Derek White thing is kind of inexplicable. Yeah. I got to say, like when, especially in this game, you're in China, everything's fucked up about this game. It's this wide arena. I don't want Derek White out there. I just can tell you.

I was watching simultaneously Brazil. Greece was on Brazil, had Barbosa and Verge. I honestly didn't know Verge or Barbosa were playing basketball. I didn't know those guys could still run. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't,

I just thought they were retired. Like I, I, at that point I thought like he do Turkoglu was going to be in the Turkey game. Cause it was like, Oh, better best. We'll dust him off too.

And they're running screen rolls at the end of the game. And Barbosa understands international basketball even at the age of 52, however old he is, better than any guard we have other than maybe Kemba. But like he just understands how to navigate it. I don't know. The Brazil coach is getting

really, really chirping about Giannis. He really was. Yeah. That was weird. They ran one shot for him in the fourth quarter. It was weird as it was going on that they just didn't give him the ball 30 feet from the basket and let him do Giannis stuff.

But I'm just happy to have basketball back. I really, I really thought I missed it, but I think we're at an interesting time just in general with NBA players where am I not allowed to... Is that criticizing Devin Booker to say I thought he should have played Team USA? Are we not allowed to even make

snarky jokes about this? All you're saying is that if you're Devin Booker and you, for the foreseeable future, are going to be on a non-playoff team... It's going to be foreseeable for a few years. Why not take every opportunity you can to play a really meaningful basketball game? Why not do that?

Maybe you just shouldn't do stuff on, you shouldn't tweet stuff anymore like that. Maybe it should just be stuff in podcasts. So were people coming at you being like, that's what you get? No, they weren't coming at me. It was, yeah, I just, somebody mailed me, I think one of those sports blogs they had a whole piece and that was the headline okay and I was like wow okay so

this backfired I can't wait till like in the Tatum injury I caused it like what's the what's the rationale of the blog post if I hadn't done the Devin Booker tweet Tatum would have two ankles I think they probably could have planned this a little bit better it did seem like it was like I have no doubt

that they managed it fine and that the perception of it was a little bit off but I think they could have planned it better by being like here's the thing next year is when all those the all NBA guys are going to play they're going to play in the Olympics so this for FIBA what we're going to do is we need one or two all NBA

guys to be like, yes, I will play. And then we'll do all under 23s. And that would have been like, you wouldn't have had the circus around the summer of everybody's dropping out. Everybody's making these public announcements. And that way it would have just been smooth. And it's like, hey, look, our under 23s, maybe we just go silver here.

But now we've almost, now we're playing against like legends now. Like now we're playing against like this uninterrupted gold medal rush. Yeah, the ghost of the... So it's kind of hard for like, if you go out there with Joe Harris and Donovan Mitchell and they're like, man, Turkey's kicking our ass.

It might be, it's a little bit tough. If I was a young player and I could play on a team with other really good guys, go through all the practice stuff, and then also get coached by all these guys that have won titles, I just feel like, is this going to make me 3% better? Probably. But I don't know. I have trouble trying to figure out the motivations of the 20-something NBA players these days

because they really do seem like they love the regimented schedule of, well, I'm going to be here. I'll be here for these two months. Every day I'm going to go through my routine. And they don't want to go to China. So I don't know. I don't know what to make of it.

But I think we're at an interesting time with this whole international basketball thing because I think it's going to get worse, not better. You think we're going to have worse, not better with guys. You think we're going to have problems like this going into the Olympics next year? I do. So no Ron,

obviously no KD probably next year. You talked about the lack of upside for these guys. The downside is just more prominent than the upside. Like losing minutes to somebody you think you're better than. You're, you're playing 10 minutes and Joe Harris is playing 28. Right. And it's like, I'm better than Joe Harris.

Fuck this. Yeah, it did seem like those older Team USAs, that never happened because the five guys who were playing were the five best players of the century. So it was just sort of hard to be mad about LeBron, Wade. It was just sort of obvious who was going to play.

They did have that problem a little bit, I think in 96 and 2000, where it was definitely like old generation, new generation. If you go back and watch some of the 96 games, there's some old guys in that team. What was Larry Brown? That was later. That was 04. And then Larry Brown's out there trying to get jobs with other countries.

Right. At the same time. I would go 23 and under and really commit to that. I think that we are a, I would like to think that we are an advanced enough sports society that we would be like, I get it. These guys are U23s.

Like it may not always happen for us, but it's going to be really fun to watch. Even U24s. I like seeing Miles Turner out there. I thought he was actually like weirdly valuable in the Turkey game. Cause we have no bigs anymore. At least he can protect the rim and run around you think next year like ad does ad play next year next i don't i don't think a lot of these guys are going to play in the olympics and here's the

thing i do i think a lot of them are going to figure out ways not to play and because we're not allowed to criticize professional athletes anymore i think think people are like, hey man, it's their right, man. Those guys, they have a tough life playing a hundred games. They should do what they want to do during the summer. Okay. Well, we're going to lose the gold medal. Do we care? Maybe we shouldn't care. Maybe we should make Logan. I'll care about the other gold medals. We should win. Yeah. Let's talk about CBS Sports HQ really quickly. Sports television is changing. Not always for the better. Yelling, beating topics in the ground.

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Watch anytime from anywhere on your phone or at home on your Apple TV, Roku, or Fire TV. It could not be easier. Download the CBS Sports app and watch CBS Sports HQ today. So wait, I want to ask you though, because especially coming out of the Donovan Mitchell thing where it's like the buzz is really good about him.

It's like a movie that's a tell your ride and it's like, hey, marriage good about him. It's like a movie that's a tell your ride and say, Hey, marriage story. Donovan Mitchell is marriage story. But who do you think is, who else is up there in the perception Olympics this summer for the NBA? So the qualifications are.

No, one's actually seen anything. Buzz. Yeah. Alleged tales of somebody extending their three-point range or being in awesome shape? Yeah, it's not even muscle watch. It's just like the whole thing

around Utah, I think, is getting a little out of control. You know what I mean? Somebody getting an inch taller somehow? Yeah. Anthony Davis growth spurt. So I think Ben Simmons, Perception Olympics, I think has been big. The new Ricky Davis? Yeah.

No, the real Ricky Pierce, I mean. Making threes and the fact that he's even taken them in those games. I thought that was good. Steph Curry playing the pickup game. Oh my God. In Oakland. Was that where it was? It was in Oakland, right?

Yeah, but it's just like Steph Curry is like the Bay legend. It's cemented now. I think this is going to be a really fun year for him with Durant gone and the pressure removed of will they defend the title because they're not going to. And Clay gone too. But then I like that Draymond's like, if you think that we're not making the playoffs, you have a fucking head injury.

Right. Nobody believes in us but the guys in this locker room. We've won three titles. And then Steph having the guys in this locker room. That's kind of fun. We won three titles and then Steph having the career year. I like everything he's done this summer. I even kind of enjoy

the terrible golf show. Oh, yeah. You seen that? The mini golf one? Yeah, yeah. No, I watched him at the Tahoe Pro-Am though. Yeah.

I think Ben Simmons is the audience. It's miniature golf combined with people just being violently assaulted. It's like a Japanese game show basically. Yeah, they're running up the course

and just getting annihilated and knocked into water. Who else? Mitchell Curry, Ben Simmons. What's the Boston vibe? Well, the Boston vibe is just the chemistry vibe, right? And they get to do a chemistry experiment. Yeah, they get to build it in China. Yeah.

That's happening. The Brooklyn thing's weird, right? What's up with the owner? Yeah, new owners. That's good for them, though, I think. But the whole just KD not being on the team next season, you have this whole free agent spinning spree, but then nothing happens for a year.

But every single game they play is going to be shot through the filter of what does this mean for KD next season? Right. Is Karis LeVert going to be a problem next season? I think Carmelo has been in the mix for Buzz Olympics. Oh, yeah.

Just the amount of Carmelo content. Oh, because he beat Randall in a one-on-one. There was that. He's getting blackballed. He made the rounds. He did the ESPN car wash. There was rumors about KD and Kyrie

wanted him on the Nets. I think the amount of time we've spent talking about Carmelo compared to the basketball moments any of us can remember of his

over the last five years is a little out of whack. Right? Yeah. 2014 was his last really good season. And his last two NBA seasons were pretty rough.

He should have been on Team USA. He actually, I think they would have been running plays for him. We maybe aren't even on the site before. It was like, should Carmelo just play for the Team USA and then like Moonlights for some NBA teams? Right, that's it. But essentially he's just like an Olympic veteran. He's basically the Leandro Barbosa of the USA team. Exactly, why not it. But essentially, he's just like an Olympic veteran. He's basically the Leandro Barbosa

of the USA team. The thing is, him on the Team USA and Marcus Smart also has this problem of they're fun to have unless it's like a one-point game

with two minutes left because they will take the biggest shot. Yeah. Like, they have to like keep Marcus Smart away from crunch time and international basketball.

It's like, he will shoot. He also started international incident. Right, he might start international incident too. But yeah, in It's like, he will shoot. He also started international. He might start international too. But yeah, in the Australia game, he took the biggest shot of the game that they lost. The other thing I wanted to ask you about, so did you see today, I think Bloomberg had this idea

that the NBA is going to make it easier for people to buy basically stock in teams. Oh. It's going to reduce the hurdles to becoming a minority owner in teams. So here's my question. You think it's time for me? Over the next 10 years, five years, who would you want to invest in most? Can't be the Celtics.

I would want to be involved in the Seattle expansion team. Oh. Yeah. Good answer. Yeah. I'd like to be heavily involved. That's the next five years? Yeah. I'd like to be heavily involved. I think that's the next five

years. Yeah. I think they go to 32 in the next five years for a variety of reasons. Because I do

think it could help them replace some of the money that they would lose if they reduced the schedule.

games. Yeah. So you go 32, you have, I guess you would have what, 18 conferences? Mm-hmm. I mean, I'm sorry, you have, I guess you would have what, eight team conferences? I mean, I'm sorry, eight team divisions, four eight team divisions. Everybody plays each other once or twice, once at home, one away.

And then you play the other seven teams in your division once, 71 game schedule. And we're off. And they could replace all that money with like the $2 billion. What do you think? $2 billion for the expansion fee? Maybe more? Maybe they don't get TV rights for like five years. You do Seattle and Vegas. Didn't the Kansas City Royals just sell for like a billion dollars? I think they could

probably do pretty well. Brooklyn was basically evaluated at over $2 billion. So Seattle would be my answer. What about you? I was trying to think about this because i i want to say clippers and moving into the new building and the team that they could have over the next five years but i was trying to be a little bit more creative you know what i mean like i was trying to think of like a like whether it's memphis or or like counterintuitively

going big on ok City or something. Oh, wow. Buying low? Yeah. I just thought it was an interesting question, though, is like the idea of like if you're a celebrity and you could buy into a team, you're a rich guy, you could buy into a team. Who do you want to sit courtside at? Who do you want to be?

So what do I get if I'm buying in? So courtside tickets. What's my stake? Like 2%? Yeah. Yeah. Maybe the direct line, you have the cell phone of the GM just to be like, hey, not telling you how to do your job. Love what you're up to.

Trust the process. But just look, maybe give this guy a call about this guy. But I think those guys end up becoming more of a nuisance than anything because they're like, hey, my nephew was crunching some usage rate numbers. And then they're just like, I think it nephew was crunching some usage rate numbers. And then they're just like... I think it's really hard to navigate all those dudes. But I think the benefits are the courtsides

and then getting to go. They all have the little special club underneath before and after games. There's a special, special section. And you get there. It's you and Matthew Perry. And then after two drinks, you tell people you own whoever the team is. They're not going to check you on it.

They don't know who the owner is. Like, I'm Chris Ryan. I own the Sixers. How much? Eh, but it's relative. You know, it's like, you got to adjust for inflation. The Jay-Z thing was illuminating

when he owned, like, such a tiny stake in Brooklyn and he got so much mileage out of it. He got billboards. Jay's an owner. Yeah. It's like, now he owns, like, 0 he got billboards. Jay's an owner. Yeah. It's like now he owns like 0.4%. Would you put your excitement level at this upcoming season,

like how high is it based on like compared to like the last three or four? Well, you've been here the whole decade, right? Yeah. So from an LA basketball standpoint, this is probably the peak, right? I don't think there's ever been this many good NBA players in one city since I guess Miami. But since, I guess, Miami. But I mean, we had the first, second year of Grantland after the lockout. The first year of Grantland, it's like, we all have to get into college basketball.

Right, and hockey. Yeah. And then the lockout season. But then coming out of that, heading into the 2012-13 season, that was when Dwight Howard was on the Lakers with Nash. Lob City was in there. There was some excitement, but people were a little skeptical of the Lakers thing. Kobe was near the end. Dwight Howard was

coming off surgery. This one is like they might have two of the best five teams in the league. And as you said, marquee dudes. Four of the best seven players. At definitely four of the best six players four of the best seven players yeah yeah like four

at least four of the top nine right yeah you have Paul George where do you have him pretty high pretty high like 9-10 range

yeah 8-9-10 so and you have that Clippers-Lakers opening night game that I feel like is going to be like a real event

I don't remember tickets for hoops that were like a genuine event that feels like a title fight that feels like a real event. I don't remember tickets for hoops that were like a genuine event like that. That feels like a title fight. That feels like a really, really exciting, and like it's just going to be obscene to see the people who show up for that. I think we'll get Nicholson wheeled out for that,

probably, right? Wheeled out? What is he going to be like? Well, just I feel like he's like the Mac and me wheelchair. He's mummified most of the week, and then like gets woken up for a couple of Lakers games.

He's definitely coming out for that. I think we could get DiCaprio. Does Gerard Butler get edged out? Gerard Butler. He's a game. He loves to be in the mix. Gerard Butler. It would be interesting to see who tries to claim the Clippers. People that are like,

I've always been a Clipper fan. O'Shea Jackson Jr. is a huge Clippers. Like people that are like, oh, I've always been a Clipper fan. Like this O'Shea Jackson Jr. is just like a huge Clippers fan. A lot of 25 and unders. This is the opportunity to become part of the new Camelot.

If you're an up-and-coming actor right now living in LA, you gotta throw your flag down on the Clippers because you could be the Nicholson

for the next 20 years. Especially if you feel like LeBron's heading toward a cliff. Yeah. I do think, I don't think this will happen, but it can't be ruled out that this Lakers season is like a

semi-disaster. That's what makes it so exciting. I think it's like a one out of five chance this goes not great. Yeah, you think? Clippers would only go not great if there's injury stuff. Fun fact about the Lakers, I work very seriously on the NBA coverage of this site. I've forgotten multiple times that Frank Vogel's the coach.

Right. Multiple times. I'm like, man, when Jason kid's the coach, I'm like, wait a second. They actually did hire Vogel.

Yeah. He's going to be ordering around Jason kid. Yeah. Um, the other part of this Clipper Laker thing, you know, the fans have the Clipper fans. There's not many they're beaten down. There's definitely a little, you think you're better than me with the Laker fans. And, but we've never really seen them at full powers on each side going at it. Yes. Oh, six. It almost happened where they were almost in a playoff series,

but I'm excited for that wrinkle too because the Laker fans, they don't even, it's like whatever. You know, they don't even, won't even engage with the Cooker fans.

They're like, what's Anthony Davis ever won? That's actually a Laker fan at our company's take. Really? Yeah. I don't know. Do we need him?

What's he ever won? Oh my God. Yeah. That's what's happened when you've had so much success that they've had. I'm excited for some sort of animosity, but I'm not optimistic. I just think it's going to be pretty exciting. I think it could be, I think that in years past,

I got kind of like locked in where it was like, well, the season doesn't really start until the playoffs because the Warriors are going to be, even if the Warriors are the second seed. And the amount of effort any Western Conference team would have to expend to like edge out the Warriors for the number one seed almost makes it like a detriment going into the playoffs.

But this year, I just feel like it's going to be like every week the narratives are going to change. I feel like we're going to have a lot of like fake champs over the course of the season. People are going to we're going to have a lot of fake champs over the course of the season. People are going to get really fired up about a couple of fake teams. You know, and I have no idea who's going to win the East.

It's really, really cool. The Warriors thing kept us captive because it was always a situation where either you just said, well, the Warriors are going to win again. Or if you went the other way, it seemed like you were really desperately trying to make a case

that you didn't totally believe and if they weren't playing up to their potential it just was upsetting it's like oh really you guys are the best come on guys can you try harder if the Warriors I guess Klay won't start the season probably

start the season? he's gonna be gone until like April but if the Warriors started to see he's not gonna he's gonna be gone until like April yeah well okay so but if the Warriors started out like 15 and 5 yeah like wouldn't the hairs on the back

of your neck stand up a little bit if they can try to linger and then there's like when we get to January they're talking about the whole Clay's coming along

he's ahead of schedule yeah I think that's a tough injury to come back from in less than 10-11 months but you know the Russell thing will be fun

it'll be dazzling to have those two just trading it off every night I'm really starting to get excited that's why I want to talk about Team USA because it was like my wife always says when one of her shows comes back you know like season three of whatever show she's like oh my friends are back and all the people on the show

like in Fleabag so. She's like, oh, my friends are back. Oh, yeah. All the people on the show, like in Fleabag. So my friend's back. I love her. That's how I felt watching the Team USA guys in this turkey game. I was like, ah. It's real basketball. We're doing it.

Yeah. Tatum. Yeah. Tatum has this weird beard. It hasn't even totally grown in yet. Kind of looks like a question mark. I would have been pretty into it if they had done rookies and sophomores.

So like Trey Young's in it, people like that. For sure. Yeah. That would have been pretty good. I think it would have been pretty into it if they had done rookies and sophomores so like Trey Young's in it people like that for sure yeah that would have been pretty good I think it would have been fun we can watch you on what's our succession show number one boys

number one boys on Sundays after succession after succession strong season yeah strong you can say that again thanks Chris Ryan see ya

thanks to Zipcruiter don't forget to go to zipcruiter.com slash BS thanks to Pepsi they take all NFL celebrations to the next level whether it's a Hail Mary touchdown Thanks to ZipCruiter. Don't forget to go to zipcruiter.com slash BS. Thanks to Pepsi. They take all NFL celebrations to the next level, whether it's a Hail Mary touchdown,

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I have some wrinkles for the Friday Rollins coming back, but we have a couple wrinkles for it for this year. And we're putting this first one up after the Thursday night game. So I'll have some thoughts on that. And then we'll be off getting ready for the weekend and some other stuff as well. So see you then. On the wayside On the first side of the river I'm saying

I don't have to ever