The Bill Simmons Podcast - The Nobody Believes in Us Titans, Round 3 Bets, and the MLB Cheating Scandal, With Peter Schrager, Joe House, Mallory Rubin, and Bill’s Dad | The Bill Simmons Podcast

Episode Date: January 17, 2020

HBO and The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by NFL Network’s Peter Schrager to preview the upcoming NFL conference championship games (2:13), before calling up Joe House to make some Million Dollar Picks, including some fun prop bets (35:24). Then Bill talks with Mallory Rubin about the ever-developing Astros cheating scandal and how the rest of MLB is affected, including the Red Sox, Mets, Dodgers, and others (1:00:09). Finally, Bill calls up his dad to quickly discuss Red Sox manager Alex Cora's departure from the team (1:35:15). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast, brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Finding key players for your team can be challenging. Just look at the Astros. It's going to be really challenging for them now that they are the premier cheaters of the 2010s. You know what's going to be hard for them? Finding players who want to play in Houston. Well, you know what else was hard?

Cafe Altura's COO, Dylan Miskiewicz, he needed a higher director of coffee. He posted his job on ZipRecruiter, found the best person for the role. In just a few days, four to five employers who post on ZipRecruiter to get a quality candidate through the site. Within the first day, my listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash BS. ZipRecruiter is the smartest way to hire. We're also brought to you by TheRinger.com where we've been writing about baseball and the Oscars and football playoffs. And we had an incredible oral history by Brian Curtis about Stu Scott, his life and his legacy that I thought I knew a lot about Stu Scott. I worked with Stu Scott.

I didn't know half of the stuff that was in here. It's a really great piece. Please go check it out. A lot of people loved it. And speaking of things to check out, Book of Basketball podcast, Reggie Miller, The Pyramid, did that with Shea Serrano. That went up.

And then one of my favorite rewatchables ever with Quentin Tarantino and Sean Fennessey, we did King of New York. And Tarantino dropped some unbelievable stories about Lawrence Fishburne, some great sliding doors of the mid nineties and how he wrote jewels and pulp fiction for Fishburne and Fishburne turned it down and this chain of events that led after that. And it's just an incredible podcast. If you're a movie nerd, please check it out. We have an action-packed podcast for you here. Peter Schrager and I are going to break down

conference championship weekend, get into million-dollar picks with House. Mallory's coming on to say goodbye to Lamar and then talk about this baseball cheating scandal. And then my dad's going to come out at the tail end. That's all coming up. First, some new music. All right. He was good luck when we had him a couple weeks ago and now he's back from the NFL Network

and from Fox. Peter Schrager, how are you? Where are you? I am in Brooklyn, New York right now, Bill, and you can imagine Brooklyn is abuzz with football talk, as it always is at this moment.

Oh, the coffee shops, the bloggers, the socialists. They're all going nuts. The socialists, the handlebar mustaches. Everyone is ready with their oat milk and they're ready to go. They're excited. They're over-caffeinated oat milk. They're just going nuts. Let's start with the AFC.

We have Tennessee and KC, big rematch. They're over-caffeinated oat milk. They're just going nuts. Let's start with the AFC. We have Tennessee and KC, big rematch. We had a piece on the ringer talking about the last time these two teams played. Where Tennessee won, but KC shot themselves in the foot a million different ways. And ironically, the other game was another one where the two teams played already and there was a very definitive outcome. My tendency with this stuff as we get to January, especially when you have certain playoff teams that just kind of blossom at the right time, is to throw away the past. And this Tennessee team has now blossomed into this old school, awesome juggernaut.

And my instinct is to throw away the past. Where do you stand on the last game versus where we are now? Yeah. And I went back and actually watched that game and then I've spoken to people on both sides about that game, and it was a week 10 game, and it was Mahomes' first game back from being away for two weeks, and they lose on weird block field goal. The Chiefs are up nine points late in this one. They give the game away on the road, but whether you want to say it or not, Derrick Henry did go

188 with two touchdowns in that game and dominated that defensive line. And that is exactly what he has done the past two weeks. It's like we're talking about on our show, and I guess the basketball analogy is like the NCAA tournament. Sometimes Wally Zerbiak, you know, just takes it, goes on a run and throws you on his back. And sometimes there are these teams that you say, well, during the regular season, Lamar Odom and Rhode Island weren't this great team. Yeah, but in the tournament, they're hot, and that's what matters. And I feel like right now this Tennessee team, to compare them, even locker room-wise,

to what they were in Week 10 is unfair to them because they just knocked off Brady and Belichick in Foxborough. And I can tell you that they had no doubt they were going to beat the Ravens going into that game and then just manhandled everybody's darling, the Ravens. They are, I guess, as confident as a locker room, but also like one of these teams that knows they're coming in with Derrick Henry and knows they're going to impose their will. A little small nugget on the Derrick Henry wearing the crown out of the building last week when he leaves Baltimore.

Someone had to bring a crown with them. So it was like someone had to pack that crown. He wore the crown out of the building, meaning when they were packing for that trip to Baltimore, they're like, oh, don't forget the crown. I think that's a pretty cool little insight on how they view themselves. Yeah, Derrick Henry's going to do what Derrick Henry does.

You have to stop us, not the other way around. Well, I forgot when I made my picks last week. First of all, I'm going to spend the rest of my life wondering why I did a 180 on Tennessee. I had them all week. I'd had them for two straight months. I read a couple of advanced metrics articles about the Ravens and how historic they were, got completely freaked out and flipped my pick and then had to suffer through that game.

I forgot about one of the most powerful forces in sports, Peter Schrager. And you're somebody who you were reading me when you were in college. So you remember me beating this into the ground in the early two thousands. Um, the nobody believes in us factor. I mean, it's huge and it feels like the Titans still have it because now you have the chiefs coming off this crazy playoff game where they fall behind by 24 and then basically turn into the 1980s Showtime Lakers and have the 90 point second half to just run the other team out of the building. Only this happened in the second quarter. And now everybody's like, oh, well, Mahomes is healthy again. When they played the last time,

Mahomes was really compromised, couldn't move around. They're too fast. They're too explosive. Even if they're down 10, they can come flying back. And people have talked themselves into that narrative. Do the Titans qualify for the nobody believes in us corollary? Absolutely. The Titans qualify for that. And you're right. And it's like, we went back and you start looking at the game

and you start making excuses for the Chiefs. But at the end of the day, the Titans came in there and ran the ball 188 and two touchdowns from Derrick Henry on that defense. And that doesn't go forgotten. The fact that they beat the MVP from two years ago, the fact that they beat the MVP from this year, and now the fact that, hey, oh, here come the Chiefs,

they got the jitters out of them, and now they're just going to be lights out. They're well aware of what people are talking about in Tennessee. There's also an interesting figure in this one. So everyone talks about these offenses, and Greg Roman got job interviews and was the most celebrated for the Ravens and obviously Andy Reid and Kyle Shanahan and even LaFleur. I mentioned him on the podcast last time with you,

but there's this guy, Arthur Smith, the most unassuming name, who is the offensive coordinator of the Tennessee Titans. Bill, your listeners have to know this guy's story. His father, and I'm not sure if he's uncomfortable with everyone knowing this, his father is Fred Smith, who is the CEO and founder of Federal Express. What?

So that is his dad. That is the offensive coordinator of the Titans. He's 35 years old, but this isn't some nepotism. He has been grinding it out for 10 years in the league as an offensive line assistant to then a tight ends coach. They fire Malarkey. They hire Vrabel. They keep him on as a tight ends coach. And then they fire Malarkey. They hire Vrabel. They keep him on as a tight ends coach.

And this is his first year as the offensive coordinator slash play caller. And that is the approach of this dude where it's like, I'm a tight ends guy. I'm an offensive line guy. We're going to ram the ball down your throat. You have to stop us. But this is my favorite of all these storylines with this dude and his rise here because here's a guy that never has to work a day in his life, and he was making $20,000 as a quality control assistant

for many, many years and literally did the wait your turn, take the next job, wait your turn, and he's been working with Tennessee over three different head coaches and has earned his place at the table, and yet you wouldn't even know his face or his story. But, yeah, Google Arthur Smith and look up his story. I went to Georgetown Prep. He could easily be in the Hamptons or somewhere else. And instead, he's grinding it out as an offensive line coach in the NFL

and now is matching with the best offensive and defensive coaches in the league. Wow, Kyle, I have hope for Ben Simmons now. Wow. I think my son, maybe he'll have a job. Incredible. And I'm not the CEO of FedEx. They've got a shot. I like that his middle name is William.

His name is Arthur William Smith. So he either sounds like a serial killer or the rich son of the FedEx guy who is now an offensive coordinator. It's one or the other. I think it worked out pretty well for him. It did. It worked out. How about the jump pass, though? I mean, you talk about balls in a big spot.

It was awesome. I loved it. And it's like one of those deals where we're going to go nuts about jet sweep and crazy motion. And literally their play is the Tecmo Bowl playbook, it looks like. Just like run left, run right, pass right, pass left. And it works.

I don't know where I was on this because I feel like I'm in like at least the 97th percentile of passionate sports fans. One of my favorite things is when somebody was like an absolutely incredible dominant high school player. And this is dating back to when I was in high school, one of my best friends, Steve Bishop,

we used to become obsessed when there was like these high school super athletes and my friend, Ben, we name a few Bailey is what comes to mind. Well, and like Marcus Dupree was a classic. We ended up making a 30 out of him. But the one that we were the most enamored with, and this was

like Bish's favorite person ever, was Ronald Curry. Oh, come on. Virginia. Well, he went to North Carolina and tried to play starting point guard and quarterback at the same time for a high div one, especially basketball. They were way up

there and he actually did. I think he got hurt, but we were like, just so fascinated by somebody trying to do this. Chris Fowler used to host that show, Scholastic Sports. And I'll never forget on ESPN, they go into, I think he's either from Newport News or Virginia Beach. And they're like, here's Ronald Curry. He plays both sports. He's all Virginia, all this stuff. He's going to North Carolina. Now he got hurt, but he did have, all this stuff. He's going to North Carolina. Now, he got hurt, but he did have an NFL career as a wide receiver for the Raiders. Like a legit career despite the injury. But yes, he's probably the greatest high school athlete in a state that includes Allen Iverson and Michael Vick.

Like, I think it's pretty good. Ronald Curry, hands down, best Virginia athlete ever. Well, and Randy Moss was another one where he was this incredible basketball player who played with white chocolate. And so anyway, I never knew about Derrick Henry basically being the linebacker from Fast Times at Ridgemont High multiplied by like the greatest running back. And like somebody had a tweet of his high school stats, his senior year, where it was like 430 yards a game or something. It was a championship game. It was a state championship game. He ran for 430 and seven touchdowns. Oh my God.

And the highlights are amazing. But what's crazy is he's been able to extend that into the national football league where it still seems like he's in the high school game. Have you stood next to him? Like how big is he? Yes. I'm big. I'm six,

three. He towers over me. I mean, he's, he's, he's legitimately six, four, six, five,5", whatever the listings say in the media guide. He is as big as anyone else on the field. The offensive linemen are at the same height with him.

And his presence is so, because he's one of these quiet big men, which is almost scarier than the big man that runs his mouth. He's just like this almost brooding, big, quiet character out there where he doesn't talk smack, and then he just seeks the contact. And the nutty stuff about Derrick Henry's high school career numbers is that obviously he goes to Alabama and has his stuff and all this, whatever it is. Also in high school, his second half numbers are like historically better

than his first half numbers, which is what he does at the NFL level. And at the end of the day, a lot of these defensive coordinators who I talked to are like, what thing with Henry is that you knock them around for 20, 25 minutes, then it gets to 35 minutes. Then in the 45th minute, he's still standing.

And it's like, what do you want me to do? I've got a 190 pound corner trying to tackle him. Right. And the thing is, you know, I keep hearing about the Chris Jones thing. Is he going to play?

Is he not going to play? I'm afraid to make my pick until I find out if he's playing. I don't think it matters. I think Henry's, I just think he's going to do what he's going to do, regardless of who's out there. I don't think the Chiefs are very good against the run to begin with. But the fascinating thing about last week, that Baltimore-Tennessee game, it was, you've played, Matt, and it was the engage eight on both sides.

Engage eight. And usually when you do that, at some point, the other team starts throwing. But Tennessee was just like, fine. Keep your eight guys there. We're still going to run on you. And they were able to control the game. I think the Chiefs are going to be at even more of a disadvantage. The Ravens had 12 pro bowlers.

I forget how many on defense, but the Titans really manhandled them. Defensively, I think the Ravens are probably going to look back at that game for the next 20 years and wonder what happens if we don't panic. Why did we throw the ball so many times? Why did we, from the moment we went behind, why did we act like there was four minutes left in the game? I'm sure they have a million things to kill themselves about, but fundamentally, I felt like Tennessee could just move the ball on them and that's what they did. And I think it's going to happen this week. Yeah. And, and, you know, we did a big segment Monday on the good morning

football show about whether you look back at the Ravens season as shining achievement or utter disappointment. And of course, me, the pessimist, I was just like, that's the worst way to end a season. They're nothing. I'll never remember this team. They're a regular season team. And the other three hosts were like, wow, that's harsh. I'll look back at the amazing highlights we had. And Lamar Jackson wearing sunglasses. And I'm like, I kind of look at it as a missed opportunity because this could have been one of the most fun teams we ever talked about. Like I still talk about the 99 Rams because they were just so fun to watch this team. They kind of lost their mind.

We have like an old chargers team that would do the same thing. So how do you do something different than what they do with lesser defensive talent? I think chiefs would probably even say that themselves. Truth is Chris Jones to me is a big deal Chris Jones, to me, is a big deal because Chris Jones wouldn't have been a big deal against Watson. I feel like Watson's the kind of guy that's going to be running laterally and is going to be doing all those things outside the pocket.

To me, this offense is right up the gut, and that's where Chris Jones is waiting. But he was there last time, and they went for 188 and two touchdowns on him. So I don't know. This, to me, is one of those deals where if the chiefs get out early and get a score and don't fall behind, I don't see Tennessee being able to run their football and have it. They have to get a little creative,

but the first two weeks of the playoffs, we said the same thing about the Patriots and the Ravens. And it hasn't been the case. The Titans took the lead early and then they just dominated from then on out. The thing is, if you have an injured Chris Jones, who's playing and the Titans have already run on him when he was healthy and playing,

then he'll help a little bit, but it's still ultimately, Henry's going to be able to do what he wants to do in this game. You made the key point. What happens if they're down 10 and they have to change who they are? That did not happen to them in the Pats game. Did not happen to them in the Ravens game. Conversely, it happened to the Ravens. Yep.

And we found out this usually happens during the football playoffs. There's going to be a moment where you can't do what you like to do and you have to kind of figure out something else to do. The Pats had it against the Rams in the Super Bowl last year. They couldn't move the ball. And they had it the year before that when Blake Bortles had to lead them on a drive and Stephon Gilmore knocks it away because they didn't have the confidence. I mean, at some point, the quarterback needs to win you a game,

and Tannehill, for as good and as efficient as he's been, hasn't been asked to do that yet. Now here's the flip side on that. Incredible throw by him for the first touchdown. Amazing. Really good throw in the second touchdown. He really did make the two big plays that he had to make. I think the Chiefs will be able to pressure

him a little. They're going to be in Arrowhead, which I think matters less because of the experience they had with Baltimore last week, although it wasn't cold in Baltimore last week. What about the Andy factor? I know you and Cousin Sal talked about it. We got to talk about that too. It's the Andy factor.

Can I tell you a story that is half Brooklyn, half name drop, half you're either going to be nauseated or love it. Kind of tell you a good story that I think you'd like Sunday morning. I'm home for a rare weekend. I walk into this coffee shop, which is on bond and third in Brooklyn, which is like, whatever I walk in and there's a Hollywood celebrity. And he looks at me. I don't think he has any idea who I am. He doesn't recognize me anything. And he just says to. I don't think he has any idea who I am. He doesn't recognize me or anything. And he just says to me, man, how crazy was that football game last night? And I'm like, it was nuts.

The Ravens lost. They had it all season. And then he drops his Pearl of Wisdom on me and goes, and I'll tell you who it is after. He's like, man, the way it all shaken out with Belichick losing, like that. And then now with the Ravens out of the way, doesn't it just feel like Andy Reid's year? And I'm like, wow,

Ethan Hawk with the greatest football team. Oh my God. What a name drop. Ethan Hawk. And I didn't know who I am. I'm not saying we're buddies. We weren't out there together. He was just talking to a random stranger on Sunday morning, but his point is right. Like if you believe in this stuff, Belichick has haunted Andy Reed forever. Okay. If the Ravens win that game's in Baltimore, then they got to go on the road. And that's not a comfortable place. Like the cards fell

perfectly going back to week 17 with the Fitzpatrick pass to Gusecki for all of it to be as easy a path. And I know it's not easy, but as less stressful a path as possible for Andy Reid to get to this thing. And part of me thinks like 24 to nothing, you needed to get that Andy Reid stuff out of the system. I can't imagine it happening again for a second straight week. Well, and that's why I think Tennessee either wins the game or gets blown out. And that's what I've tried to play out both scenarios in my head. I don't think this is a three.

This is not a Casey guts it out by three game, in my opinion. I think Tennessee either controls the game and it unfolds a lot like these last two weeks did. Or Casey continues to do their thing. And then, you know, as we discussed, if Tennessee is now down 10 and there's 11 minutes left and the running game is now the table, and they have to actually throw the ball to win. That's when you have that moment, like what the Pats had against the Rams last year. Can you do what you didn't want to do the whole game? The Casey thing,

the big case, if you're going to make it for them, other than I agree with you with the Andy Reid narrative thing, is that Mahomes really looks like my homes again. And it's funny how we knew he was kind of compromised when he came back, but now that we can actually see him moving around the same way, Russ Wilson and those guys kind of do. And the, the plays that he can buy them and he can suck the life out of you.

I thought it was a really important game. I thought we're still made a good point in his pod. Cause we spent a lot of time talking about the Texans choking and all that. And probably not enough time talking about just what an unbelievable win that was for the chiefs, like really an all time memorable round two playoff win. And you're right. If this is Andy Reed's year, that's the kind of win that launches it. So who knows? What's your pick just out of curiosity?

I'm taking the Chiefs. I think they get up early and they just take care of business. And this is their year. I had them before the season as my team to go to the Super Bowl. And I usually will defend that and not try to back off.

And I also had the Rams and that didn't work out. But with the Chiefs, you know what? It's one of these things with Mahomes where there's a little wrinkle of difference this year to last. Last year, he was this humble superstar and he is still a very humble guy. And I've gotten to know

him fairly well just doing games and getting to meet him through NFL stuff. This year, if you watch Patrick, and he, of course, will always be gracious to the victor or to the person on the other end, whatever it is, there's a lot of swagger to him, too. He's a little bit feeling himself in this year where it's like, wait a second, I need to be that guy for the rest of the guys to feel confident. Cause if you watch the inside, the NFL, Mike Dub stuff, he's on the sidelines telling Kelsey, they can't stop us. And even that one play where he ran out of bounds, I think he had like a 20 yard run to get the first down. He drops the ball, like right as he's going out of bounds, almost like a little casual. And it's almost, he's got this look and feel to him where he's like, I know I'm the best player on the planet.

Everyone else, come and follow me. I'm leading you this year. Last year, I was, I'm going to do all these great things and make highlight reels, but maybe I need a little veteran leadership to like, no, no, this is 100% his team. And even like the oldest veterans on that team, they're following him every step of the way. And I kind of get the feeling this is one of those magical seasons where Mahomes makes that giant leap from the first year,

from a starter to a second. I noticed that during the game. And I think Sal and I, we even talked about it Sunday night about the difference to now he handled the adversity of that game versus how Lamar did. And from a Lamar standpoint, inexperience. Not much different than Mahomes last year. When things went sideways

for the Ravens early, you could see it. You could see Lamar's wheels turning and he stayed to himself and he wasn't doing the stuff Mahomes did. And I think you're right. Like, yeah, I just read Bob Iger's book, which was really good. I was shocked by how good it was. And one of the things he was talking about was how when you're the leader, sometimes you forget how everybody feeds off you and whatever mood you're in at all times. And I think with Lamar last week, you could see that he couldn't figure out what was happening. If I'm on his team and I'm like, that's my guy, I'm supposed to fall into the fire. And he looks confused and discombobulated, now I'm nervous. Whereas Mahomes

was like, we've got this. We're the Chiefs. We're putting up touchdowns. And I did feel like his team kept that confidence. We're going to take one quick break and then I want to talk about the NFC. Hey, with the new year officially here and everyone vowing to restrictive resolutions, Pepsi wants to usher in the new decade a bit differently by encouraging everyone to unapologetically do what you enjoy even in the face of others' judgment. So Pepsi encourages you to let loose, be yourself and live your life like nobody's watching.

You know, sometimes I enjoy saying things that other people are afraid to say. I just did this on our podcast, The Hottest Take, which is available only on Spotify. I did a whole thing about Tom Hanks. And you know what the message was? Tom Hanks, do better. Make better movies. The last 20 years, you're batting 270. Do better. And everybody gasped because you're not allowed to criticize Tom Hanks. It's like, no, Tom Hanks is one of my favorite actors ever. Do a little better. I didn't really like the Mr. Rogers movie that much. Make another rom-com with Meg Ryan.

Do something. Anyway, it made me feel good to just say what I wanted to say without any repercussions. Pepsi, that's what I like. Okay. From an NFC standpoint, we talked about narratives before. If the Chiefs win, we just hit the two narratives. Maybe this is Andy Reid's year. Trademark Ethan Hawke.

Mahomes has gone to another level. He was the guy all along, not Lamar. That would be a thing. If it's Tennessee, oh my god, this is a sports movie. Derrick Henry has this has a chance to be one of the great running back runs in the history of the sport.

All that stuff. Now, if we go to the Green Bay, San Francisco, if you look at it from the Green Bay side, there is a very, very 97, 98 Broncos feel to this Packers run. Oh, I like this. Go on. This is good. Elway, the scariest quarterback of my life up to age 30.

Always felt like, never felt comfortable with the lead against him if you're down if you're up four and he's come down the field you're just terrified but ends up winning the Super Bowl because of Terrell Davis and an awesome supporting cast and them relying on him but not relying on him too much

and now we're in the same situation with the Packers and Rodgers and the whole concept, which Kevin Clark broke down in Slow News Day today about even if you have an awesome quarterback, that doesn't mean you should be leaning on him all the time. And it seems like they found the right balance. The flip side, so that would be the narrative is like, oh, Rodgers late stage of his career, 98 Broncos, all that stuff. The flip side is maybe the Seahawks just weren't very good

and we shouldn't learn anything from that game. Yeah. Here's the thing with the Packers, and they've been dealing with this all season, and I know this from people within their building. They were a little confused with the national conversation on them because it's like in the one end, LaFleur's 14-3 now, but he's got Aaron Rodgers.

And on the other end, it's like Aaron Rodgers isn't what he used to be. So it's like, well, what is it, guys? Can we get some credit? One or the other? Like, you can't say it's both ways. To me, the story of this Packers team is like basically Rodgers saying, I'm still here. When Brady's eliminated, Breeze is eliminated, Ben gets injured,

Eli's benched, Flacco's benched. It's like, I'm the last of the old guard. I'm still here, and I'm going to be the guy, and I'm going to be the last one standing. I also think this particular matchup is fascinating. And just really briefly, the coaching dynamics between the two. LeFleur was Shanahan's right-hand man in three different places. When Shanahan was the offensive coordinator in Houston, his quality control assistant was LaFleur. When he gets the job in Washington, he brings LaFleur with him. When he gets the job

then in Atlanta, he takes LaFleur with him. So like eight different years, three different teams, LaFleur learns everything he knows from Kyle Shanahan. On the flip side of it, LaFleur's little brother, Mike LaFleur, is now Kyle Shanahan's top assistant in San Francisco. So there's so many, like, weird, incestual, I know this, but I know this about you, and I know this about you. And if you want to go one step further, Robert Sala, who's the defensive coordinator of the 49ers, and Matt LaFleur are, like, best friends for life,

and they've known each other since working together at central Michigan in 2004. And these guys are like groomsmen, each other's wedding. Like it's so much, I know what the other guy is going to do. And Oh, I know what you're going to do also that I think this is truly going to be a

chess match. And when you add in the first game where it was basically big brother, Kyle Shanahan slapped around a little brother, I think it makes it even more interesting because now it's like, all right, there's a sequel part to this. We're like, all right,

the bully or the big brother got me. Now it's my time to kind of get the last word. I'm fascinated by it because from just an X's and O's standpoint, no two teams know each other more than these two. I think the Packers lose last week. If Jimmy Graham drops that 39, which was at his feet, which was at his feet. It was at his feet.

So if you just look at it from that lens, cause now, now we're like, ah, Packers, the ball back. There's no doubt that he's scoring there. Yeah.

I just think he goes down and gets in and gets it. And I actually credit to the Packers then for the third and eight and then the third and nine. Like it is a lot to me. It's they, they freaking completed those passes. They kept Russell Wilson off. That's a champion's do. I agree with you.

My point is Seattle was pretty bad. Yeah. They didn't come out ready. They were down 28, 10 before we even got started. My son was watching that game with me and he was like, he's not beast mode. He's feast mode. And then laughed hysterically at his own joke. He thought it was so funny, but he was right.

Marshawn was just washed up and was somebody that was in significant situations and Homer and like always with the Seahawks, they have to wait until they're basically being buried in these six foot coffin that's been dug out for them. And then all of a sudden that's when they do the Michael Myers, but you know, they, they really had to, that was a game that could have lost by 35 potentially.

And they come running back. I don't think that Seahawks team is very good. And this is a time where I do think the last game matters because it wasn't just that they got beat, They got manhandled. And I don't know why that's going to be different this time. Explain why you think that might be different this time. They haven't lost a game since week 12. They haven't lost a game since they've had to win all these games because of the home field implications and the division.

And they've won some big road games too. I mean, they went into Minnesota against a team that really desperately wanted to prove to the world on Monday night football that they, and they slapped them around. Like they view themselves as the bullies in this thing. They've got these two defensive players and Preston and Zedaria Smith who can't be stopped. And then at the end of the day, they're like, we got Rogers and Jones and Adams. Like we've got three better offensive players than everybody on the 49ers that they have. So they think that they've got the elements that it takes to win.

And the argument for them is that you look at that game in Week 12 and say, okay, well, what did we do wrong? Here's the roadmap. Let's do something differently. And there's time to prepare for it. Now, I don't know if that all plays out, but we've seen it time and time again. And Kyle Shanahan, when asked about that game this week, said, okay, well, when I was in Atlanta, Carolina had that 15-1 season. And then week 12, we lost to them 37-0.

And then we played them two weeks later and beat them. Their only loss of the season. So you can't just look at one game and say, how is it going to be different? They're always different. There's always a different script. Very rarely does one team just completely wipe out another in a big rematch. Yeah, the only thing I'm with you, by the way. I do

think, especially I think about this a lot with my daughter's soccer career, where you just sometimes you lose to a team and you're just driving home. You're like, how the fuck did we lose that game? What happened? How did we lose that team 3-0? It's ridiculous. We would beat them if we played again. So I get it. I think

the thing that concerns me for the Packers is how the Niners are able to get as much pressure as they can get without having to blitz at all. And that's the part I can't reconcile. If they were playing the Patriots, I would be super nervous

because I don't know if you know this, but the Patriots aren't in the playoffs anymore. But if they know, I don't know if you know this, but the Patriots aren't in the playoffs anymore. Yeah. But if they were, I... How would that line stop Buckner, Armstead, both of them? Yeah, I just feel like, fuck,

they're not even going to have to blitz us and Brady's going to be running for his life all game. The flip side of that is that they'll probably figure out some wrinkles and some ways to do it. I was really impressed, not with the Graham play, because even though that was a good play too, but that Adams somehow getting open on that first third down that they needed. The first one or the after the catch one?

Because the first one was an incredible route. The first one when it seemed like they were just punting it right back to the Seahawks. Yep. And it's like they're clearly going to Adams and he got open anyway. And he's a guy that sometimes he's dinged up. He'll have 180 yards, and then he's out in the first quarter of the next week. But it seems like he's 100% now and locked in with Rodgers.

And we also didn't see a ton of Jones last week for what he usually gives them. So I can see the case. What's interesting is there's an extra half point. You get seven and a half if you take the Packers. So if you're taking the Niners, you're thinking this is another blowout. And I'm not positive I'm ready to go there.

I'm still sorting out my feelings on this game. The thing with San Francisco, which was, I think, eye-opening for a lot of people, is that they ran the ball 47 times, and that was not on some soft defense. That was on a team that was coming in after knocking around Drew Brees and giving Alvin Kamara hell the week before.

Like, 47 times, and on that one drive, they go eight straight runs right up the gut. It was one of those, like, you know it's coming, try to block Kittle, try to block Juszczyk, and you can then try to maybe touch Tevin Coleman, and they couldn't. The thing with the 49ers and why Kyle is so smart as a head coach is that you're preparing yourself for that, and then you'll go to the New Orleans game, and Garoppolo will throw 40 times, and they'll put up 48 points.

They are truly, and this is a credit to the offensive play calling, they're a chameleon where you don't know what you're getting week to week. So you can't really prep. And they have that upper hand on you where it's like, we can do either thing. We can pass the ball and beat you that way through the air, which they've done throughout the season. Or we can just go Tennessee Titan style on you,

hand the ball to three different running backs who are completely different body types and absolutely destroy you that way. So the narrative for them would be, this is just the best team. Best team, most complete team. This is why I bet on them for the Super Bowl. I was like, they have the best team. I don't know if that means they're going to win the Super Bowl, but I feel the safest with them

because in any conceivable playoff game situation, even if they're down 10 with 11 minutes left, I do feel like they could throw the ball and make some plays. And I think Kittle can make plays. Debo has emerged as a real force. And Emmanuel Sanders is really good. Yeah, so they can protect the lead and chase the lead. There was a storyline early in the year where it was like, can Garoppolo

make a big play if he has to? But like in New Orleans, he went down and did just that. In Seattle, he did just that. Against the Rams on Saturday night, there was two third and 16s he had to complete to lock up that one seed, and he did just that. Against the Rams on Saturday night, there was two third and 16s he had to complete to lock up that one seed, and he did. So it's hard for you to say, yeah, but he's never been in a championship game. Well, he's 21-5 as a starter, and every big game this year,

he has stepped up and been excellent. Yeah. I wish the line was six and a half. I don't know why, but going over the touchdown means that they have to win decisively. So if you had to say one game is close, one game is a blowout, which is usually the case.

I don't throw the advanced metrics at me, but that's like perennially the, the quote unquote stereotype of championship weekend. If you had to say one close game, one blowout, what would you pick? I see the chiefs taking care of business and this being Mahomes and Andy's like, you know, masterpiece in the early game.

And then I see Rogers not letting that team die and fighting to the very end. All right. There you go. What happens after football season ends? Oh, don't worry. Is that the saddest, saddest month of your show? Don't worry.

We start talking about third round potential running backs that might go to the Saints or the Cardinals. Let's dig into it. We're all football all day. Trust me.

Where is Tua gonna go? I wish it was just Tua. It ends up being where is Tua's backup gonna go? That's how deep we go. Oh. Well, good luck.

Thanks for coming on. Enjoyed it as always. Say hi to the rest of the gang from Good Morning Football for me. I will. I appreciate it, man. Thanks so much for having me on. All right, we're bringing it in the house in one second to do Million Dollar Picks first. Chances are you've heard of Salesforce. If you're like a lot of people, you don't know exactly what Salesforce does. answer is this. Salesforce brings customers and companies together with Salesforce, different employees across your different departments like Steve and Sales, Marion Marketing, Katie and Customer Service, even Ion and IT. They all get a single shared 360 degree view of each of your

customers. That means whenever your customers talk with Steve and Sales or whoever, they'll feel like they're having a relationship with one united company, not a series of disconnected departments, which is important. And second, it means that Steven Sales and everybody else will have everything they need to make your customers happy and not just a little happy. Happy like, wow, I love this company.

They really get me. I'm never going anywhere else happy. That kind of happy. When your customers are that happy, well, everyone's happy. That's how Salesforce brings companies and customers together. I can vouch firsthand that this is a great company

because my buddy Bish did really well there. Makes sense. To learn more, visit salesforce.com slash learn more. Two shout outs for Bish in this podcast. Jeez. All right, let's bring in House. All right, Joe House is on the

line. He is my conciliary for last week's Million Dollar Picks, which was the worst we've ever done. We lost- Do we have any money left? Yeah, we have some money left. It's not a lot of money, House. We're now up $235,000 for the season. We were up almost $2 million a week ago. Yeah. It was a rough last week. A lot of things went wrong. We don't need to go over all the horrors from last week, but it was bad. It felt like the gods were against us.

I am never going to forgive myself for bailing on the Titans after loving them for two straight months. I still don't know what I was thinking. We somehow did. Well, think about this. Yeah. You know who put us thinking. We somehow think about this. Yeah. You know who put us in this hole? The Patriots.

Dean Pease. Dean Pease. Spelled P E E S. Dean Pease. He peed all over us. Bill Simmons. That, that Tennessee Titan defense and the rewriting of the story.

Once the playoffs started, it was a masterful game plan against the Baltimore Ravens. It was a masterful game plan against the New England Patriots. Can Dean Pease come up with another masterful game plan against

the Kansas City Chiefs? Who looked pretty goddamn good last week. They did look good. Scored a lot of points. Let's figure out what we're doing and then I want to throw some props at you that I enjoyed. Great. The lines are KC by seven

and San Francisco by seven and a half. Peter Schrager and I went through all the narratives, including Ethan Hawke running into Ethan Hawke at a coffee house or somewhere and Ethan Hawke saying to him, maybe this is just Andy Reid's year. That made my head spin. I don't know what Andy Reid's year looked like. I just remember the year that you bet a lot of money on the Chiefs money line against Marcus Mariota and somehow lost. So I'm guessing your guards thought- Wait, that Ethan Hawke thing, that really happened? line against Marcus Mariota and somehow lost. So I'm guessing your guards to Hawk thing. That really happened.

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe Ethan Hawk just had the wisdom for this playoff. Maybe it's Andy Reid's year. Maybe it is. So in this, this, this week we have James Vanderbeek and Ethan Hawk making prominent appearances on, on ringer content. Yeah, basically that's how, That's how it played out.

It's all true. I don't know what to make of it. Plus, we had our first cheating scandal on the BS pod. Wait, who cheated? Sal, there were apparently garbage cans in his house. His kids were hitting garbage cans when he was doing Guess the Lines. And he had a buzzer attached to his left breast, so he's getting

electrocuted if it was supposed to be higher than my guess, lower, whatever. So we're sorting it out. He's suspended right now. The buzzer on the breast sounds pretty good. I'm coming out this weekend. I'd like to explore that with you. Yeah, you're going to be on the Sunday Night Pod,

either licking our wounds or celebrating these incredible bets. Hopefully buzzing some breasts. We usually agree on picks, which is usually bad since we've been losing for a couple of weeks now. Bad for us. Bad for anybody that listens to us. I almost want you to give your pick for Chiefs Titans, and then I might just go the other way.

What's your pick? I'm picking the Titans. Like, you know, fool me once, fool me twice. This is exactly the time to load up on the Chiefs, so of course I'm going to load up on the Titans. I mean, I am the squarest square in Squaresville, and I've seen enough. The thing that makes me believe the Titans can cover the seven is the game plan thing.

Like, they effectively crafted a game plan against an all-time juggernaut offense that was a bend-don't-break that created, you know, all of the advantages that Tennessee possessed defensively. They brought to bear. They were able to push up front. Their safety has 17 interceptions since 2017. Bird, Kevin Bird, I'm not great with names.

But they effectively gave up 530 yards to the Ravens and were able to amass only 300 yards themselves. In the history of the NFL, there's never been a playoff game with that great of a yardage difference, and the team behind won. They didn't just win, though. They beat the crap out of Baltimore. They were more physical than Baltimore. And so that's, I've, I've kind of seen enough, like what about the chief's offense is going to

solve that Tennessee puzzle. You know what I mean? Well, you would say my home's peaking at the right time and they're so fast. And if the Titans fall behind by 10 and all the stuff we would normally say. I love that Chris Jones is either not playing or he's hurt because I like the Titans in this matchup anyway and the fact that the Chiefs aren't at full strength or a little compromised I think is great for them.

I keep looking at this as I really genuinely feel this is an either team could win game and we're getting seven. So why wouldn't we take the seven? I really genuinely feel this is an either team could win game. And we're getting seven. So why wouldn't we take the seven? It's terrible.

It's terrible that we agree. It's terrible that this feels like a layup. We had a layup last week. It was teasing the Baltimore Ravens down to two and a half and teasing the Chiefs down to two and a half. And all that has to happen is Baltimore and the chiefs win. And we got our asses handed to us. We almost lost both sides of that. Well,

the Titans are plus two 70 to win the game. Okay. I said this to Schrager and I really do feel this way. I think the chiefs either blow them out or the Titans win. I'm not sure we're going to need the plus seven. Because I think the Titans will win. I mean, just for the sake of I'm five and three against the spread in the playoffs, I'll take the plus seven just for that.

But I think the money line is more intriguing to me. Because if this game drags on to the fourth quarter and it's tight and it'll just be Titans football. The thing is, as you said, they gave up over 500 yards to Baltimore. The Pats were moving the ball on them too, but they have this ability and they've had it for the last couple months. When they're inside their own 20 playing defense, they can actually make some stops or be in the right place at the right time or get that one tip pass or had the slot receiver jumped the route. And they, they have kind of a swagger to them when their backs are to the wall, which I like against his chiefs team. I totally agree.

That's exactly the analysis and all of the stats prove it out. If you watch what happens against the Patriots and against the Ravens, it's inside the 20-yard line. The other thing that Tennessee did super effectively against Baltimore, the best starting position for Baltimore in the entire game was their own 26-yard line. So Tennessee dominated the field position game. Can they do that against the Chiefs?

I mean, some of that is luck. You're not going to, you know, a lot of it is is execution and game plan but at some point you know if the punter has a has a glancing blow or a guy you know has has a weird kind of return um i like that i don't know i'm with you and i like the fact that the titans didn't act like they won the super bowl when they beat the p that the Titans didn't act like they won the Super Bowl when they beat the Pats and they didn't act like they won the Super Bowl when they won last week when they had a massive massive upset against the Ravens they remind me it's weird

my first great Patriots run ever going way way back I was in high school 1985 Kyle's not even born yet. Kyle would have loved this team though. And we made the Superbowl basically, you know, as one of the, as this underdog Titans type team where we had a great running game, we had an identity and it was like this lunch pail team that, uh that just kind of took care of business, controlled the ball.

Very, very reminiscent of this Titans run. And it led to us thinking we had a chance against the 85 Bears, one of the great teams of all time. And they completely, absolutely pillaged us for four quarters. Worst three hours of my whole decade, probably other than game six of the 86 World Series. But you made the Super Bowl. I know. But I'm saying- Kind of gravy. of my whole decade, probably, other than game six of the 86 World Series. You made the Super Bowl.

I know. It's kind of gravy. We've seen this happen before. It just hasn't happened lately where you have this old school football team and they're an old school football team. And I think that's why they're so endearing. You and I have now been talking for eight and a half minutes

and we haven't said Derrick Henry's name yet. Like, right. That's the story here. Right. And I just don't want to, I don't want to bet against him. Do you?

I don't want, I'd rather, I'd rather bet against my homes. Who's just as terrifying. I just don't, it sucked to bet against Derrick Henry last week when he was gone. I was like, Oh my God,

I have no chance. Well, I don't want to bet against Mahomes under any circumstances. What you're betting against is the Kansas City defense because if they can't stop Henry and the vulnerability, this has been kind of the Chiefs

bugaboo for a couple seasons now. They can't stop the run. They can't stop the run. If he just goes off for 225 all purpose yards again and they control the clock and they bend, don't break, it might be another game where the Chiefs get 550 yards, but they're kicking field goals. There's two playoff manifesto.

Actually, there's three playoff manifesto rules, which was another problem with last week's performance. I didn't consult with the playoff manifesto. I would have looked at that nobody believes in us thing and been like, why am I going at Tennessee? So they have the nobody believes in us. They still have. Schrager, I confirmed.

They have the Andy Reid. Just anytime you're betting on Andy Reid in a playoff game, just be fucking careful. And I think that one qualifies. I mean, that was a great first quarter. That one was very in effect in the first quarter. And then the other thing. It was past Sunday.

There's one of the playoff manifesto rules is beware of the team that looked a little too good last week. KC, their offense looks so incredible last week that it's now skewed people a little against them because they just looked like, you know, one of the all-time great offenses. We knew Houston wasn't good. That's why we picked the Chiefs plus 10 or minus 10

or whatever it was. It was like, Houston didn't even belong in round two. Yeah, they torched Houston. Houston has no pass rush. You can throw on them. They're the kind of team that you could score 28 points on in a quarter. This Tennessee team's completely different. So I think the fact that Casey looks so good last week is actually a benefit if you're thinking Tennessee. I hate when we agree and it's usually a bad sign for everybody else who bet on the team we agree on, but I'm

taking Tennessee plus seven. So let's file that away. The other one, Niners Packers, Niners laying seven and a half. I picked the Niners to win the Superbowl right before the Superbowl and wagered on it. I tried to get cute last week, took Minnesota with the points thinking the Niners would win by three or four or whatever. That was dumb. I have a lot of regrets about that one. I think the Niners are the best team. I do not want to bet against them at home. My issue is that the seven and a half is frightening. Your feelings on this one. First, a question.

What's the latest on Kittle? Well, unless his arm is ripped off by a train or something Kittle's playing he will be out there all right right I just want to make sure that that's the case that's one tough MF-er so I I just have a bad read on San Francisco all season long I feel like I've been on the wrong side of them virtually the entire season. I thought the Vikings were very prepared to be competitive in that game. And then seven straight, three and outs, the most unimaginative game plan on offense that you can imagine. But the thing that I was also reminded,

the San Francisco defense is so fast. They might have the fastest defense of all the teams remaining. It's like a whole defense of 240-pound linebackers, it feels like, that can all run four 340s. Well, you know what you forgot? You forgot because they were banged up and guys were either

playing hurt or just not playing. They didn't really have their defense for a few weeks. I was so impressed that, I don't think Minnesota's offensive line was that great, but I was so impressed with how they were able to pressure Cousins without ever doing any gimmicks. When you

can rush the passer with just four guys and that's it, and they know which four guys it is and you're still getting pressure. That's when you have an awesome defense, not to mention all the other guys they have, but that's my fear. If, if I'm green Bay, cause they did it to them in the last game and Schrager was talking about, well, they, you know, that doesn't necessarily mean that's going to happen again in the next game. I just can't shake the feeling that I've had all year that the Packers are not very good. I've never thought they were that good of a team. I always thought they were good for about two and a half quarters, which I said last week.

And was borne out again in that Seahawks game where they played two and a half good quarters and then they held on. I don't think they, I think they'd have to play four quarters to beat the Niners really well. And I don't think they can do it. Yeah. I'm, I'm with you. And the Seahawks had a dozen different opportunities to both win that game. And more importantly, for our purposes cover. Yeah. They even had two points for, I thought we made the right pick. And I, and by the way, the Seahawks weren't good. So the Seahawks were not good. So we're in this position that I hate in the playoffs where I really feel like one team's going to win, but that seven and a half is scary.

And I'm just going to do it and lay the seven and a half. I don't feel great about it, but I don't. Unfortunately, we, we are in agreement and, you know, there are some,

I hate when we agree to this. Damn it. Look, this is the, the problem is when I'm in this position in the same place as you, where I need to look at, at some context to try and tip me one way or the other. The Packers are one five and one against the spread in their last seven

games against the Niners. The Niners 10-2 straight up in their last 12 games as a favorite. Green Bay 3-12-1 straight up in its last 16 games as an underdog. Those straight up stats don't factor into the half point that we're scared about. But I just think this is going to be kind of the coronation for Kyle Shanahan, his moment.

That's how I feel too. Shanahan against either Vrabel or Andy Reid. Both of those are good stories for the Super Bowl. I honestly think this is terrible for the poor Niners. I'm sorry, Niners fans. I think the Niners are going to kick Green Bay's ass. I think they're a better team. I think we're either going to go 2-0 or 0-2. There'll be one close game and one blowout.

We're banking on Tennessee to be the close game. Can I throw out a plus 376 parlay for you? Oh, I'm listening. I'm listening. San Francisco versus Tennessee in the Super Bowl. Plus 376. It's worth half a unit. Worth 50 bucks. Okay.

Some other props. Don't you think? Yeah. I'm filing it away. Plus other props. Don't you think? Yeah. I'm filing it away. Plus 376. If you feel like we're going to have a Tannehill versus Jimmy G Super Bowl. The State Farm Super Bowl. Mahomes versus Rogers.

Yes. That is plus 385. Plus what? Plus 385. Chiefs. Wait, wait, wait. Chiefs Packers. Oh, Packers.

Yeah. I'm not going for that. I'm not going for that. Oh, of course not. We just picked the other two things. Some other props for you. Mahomes will have the most passing yards this weekend.

Minus 140. I mean, I kind of like it. Who's throwing for more yards than him? Let's play it out. Not Ryan Tannehill. Not Rodgers. Well, that's the one that scares me. Why not Rodgers? If they're down 40 to 7.

It's like how Lamar ended up with 350 yards and 100 rushing yards and nobody could remember. Yes. And 12 points. Most rushing yards for the weekend. Derrick Henry is minus 200. Aaron Jones plus 275. It's almost worth 50 bucks

on Aaron Jones just as a Green Bay hedge. I'm staying away, but it's worth it. It's worth talking about. I don't want to. It's a waste of 50 bucks,

but yeah. Well, you can put your own 50 bucks on it. I don't want to, it's a waste of 50 bucks, but yeah. Well, you can put your own 50 bucks on it. I, I, I've said goodbye to far greater numbers than that. Most receiving yards. I'm going to flag this one.

Debo Samuel, 12 to one. I have really, really, really enjoyed and liked what I've seen from him the last eight weeks. And, uh, 12 to one seems high. So there you go on that. really enjoyed and liked what I've seen from him the last eight weeks. And 12 to one seems high. So there you go on that.

Could you see a world where seven for 135 and that carries the weekend? I don't know. Right. Sure. Derek Henry will score one touchdown minus 185. I like that. Ooh. Can you parlay that with the

leading the weekend in rushing yards you should be able to parlay that that's not stacking I don't think yeah that sounds illegal that sounds like one of those bets that you try to do

and gets turned down all over the place Mahomes Mahomes touchdown passes minus two and a half so they bumped it up a half from last week after we forgot to bet just the straight up version of it last week. That's plus 110.

Travis Kelsey touched- Plus 110 for over two and a half? Yeah, three Mahomes touchdowns basically, plus 110. Because you can't throw two and a half touchdowns, I checked. Travis Kelsey, minus 110 110 will score one touchdown. Aaron Rodgers will throw an interception plus 110. He does in his playoff history, when he does throw interceptions, it's on the road.

On the road. You beat me to it. That's out of all these so far, that's the one I like the best. Devontae Adams will score a touchdown plus 115. Titans Chiefs will score five and a half touchdowns combined. That's the number, five and a half. Seems like a lot. Six.

I don't like it. So we like, you're saying you like Henry to score a touchdown combined with Aaron Rodgers to throw a pick. Oh, I do like, those are my two favorite. Those are the ones that I like. Yes. Okay, House, that is plus 224. Really? Better than two to one odds?

Henry TD with the Rodgers pick. Are we doing that? Let T.D. Better than two to one odds? Henry T.D. with the Rogers pick. Are we doing that? Let's do that. That sounds like a million dollar pick, buddy. Okay, here's what we're doing. Million dollar picks. Conference championship round. And we get to actually watch this together,

which I, that gives me faith. When we're together, we usually win. I just want to point that out. That is true. When we're together, we usually win. I just want to point that out. That is true. When we're together, good things usually happen. So we're going to put, we'll go light on the, we'll go 200K on Titans plus seven and 200K

on the Niners minus seven and a half as the two straight up picks. Okay. But then we're going 300K on a Titans-Niners Super Bowl plus 376. Yes. We're taking a fucking swing. Let's do it.

And then we're putting 200K. Derrick Henry will score a touchdown. And Aaron Rodgers will throw a pick. Parlay plus 224. How's that sound to you? I feel like the gambling gods want to show us that they still love us after what they did to us last week. And I think we have to do a Debo Samuel bet. Because I just...

He's my guy this weekend. I can't explain it. Great. Debo Samuel, over under receiving yards, 50 and a half. Oh. Let's do it. 200 K on Debo to get to 51 yards. Parlayed with me saying to you and Kyle 700 times that the Patriots could have drafted him instead of Nikhil Harry.

Followed by Kyle going, no, no, it's okay. It's okay. Nikhil Harry is going to be good. We're fine. Don't say that. He's good. He'll be fine. We just need one more year with him. So yeah, that's our last parlay. So there you go. That's Million Dollar Picks for week 20.

It's a great menu of picks. My last question for you before I go, and you don't have to answer right now, start thinking about the menu for us watching these football games together, buddy. I'm hungry. There's rumors. I was going to save this for last.

There's rumors. Heavy rumors. Lots of rumors right now of Dave Chang coming over and bringing food from Koreatown for both games. Oh, wow. Just for both games. Wow. Just rumors right now.

Wow. It's been circulating in the internet. It's been in the dark web. It's been like where in the Anon, whatever, the QAnon, whatever that's called, the dark, dark web. In the dark, dark web, there's been lots of rumors of Dave Chang bringing food to us and watching the games

with us. I don't know if that's true. Well, I have to do to bring that to the real web. I want that on the real web. We'll see how it goes. I want that to see the light of day. All right. Good luck to both of us.

I'll see you on Sunday. I can't wait. Okay. The Mother of Dragons is coming in one second. First, you know Square. They make that little white raider that helps lots of businesses around your neighborhood take credit cards like Kyle's, Barber, Fernando. Now on Twitter?

Fern Studios on Twitter. Fern Studios, at Fern Studios. Yeah. Does he Photoshop or does he put photos of haircuts? His first picture is my haircut. Really? Yeah. There you go.

Well, guess what? We pay Fernando with Square. And I say we because my son Ben goes there too. Here's the thing a lot of people don't know. Square makes so much more than the card reader. Running and growing your business takes a lot of work. That's why Square is great. They can't do all that work for you,

but they can help with a lot more of a business than you'd think. Things like point of sale, online stores, full service payroll, invoices you can send from anywhere. And remember their payments are still the best in the business. No long-term contracts, no weird fees. You always get your money fast. There's really so much more Square can do

to help your business run and grow. See all the ways Square can take your business from square one to whatever's next at square.com slash go slash BS. All right. We are bringing in Mallory. All right. So I was going to not do this this week because we were set on football talk and I know how traumatized you were.

But then we talked it out and we're like, actually, people would think, A, you were ducking the podcast. I would never. Or B, you had a mental breakdown. That's closer to the truth. So Mallory Rubin is here. You said Sunday was, quote, one of the most disappointing moments of my life. You know, I did say that.

And I recognize that saying that makes me sound like an entitled brat and an asshole, which I'm comfortable with. By the way, it was true. Certainly as a sports fan, it was one of the most disappointing days of my life. And I had allowed myself to believe that the Ravens were going to win the Super Bowl. I had also, mostly out of self-preservation,

but also really thinking that it was possible, talked myself into the Titans winning that game, as you know from our conversation last week. And then I backed off after I made the case to you. Didn't make it any easier to actually watch it unfold in real time. Very painful. However, I still love the team and I'm grateful for the season. Well, plus now you're the NFL's Houston Rockets. Great advanced metrics team that looks awesome in the regular season. Then the playoffs come around and you'd fall apart. This is rude.

I knew that would bother you. I heard you say that on Sunday night on your pod and it was upsetting. Lamar is James Harden. He's doing things we've never seen before. Just don't ask to see them in the finals of a sport. This is not true or fair. I will take the is James Harden cop in the sense that he's a perennial MVP candidate. He should grow a giant beard like James Harden does. I'm sure it will look great. I'm not going to let you get to me. Here's the thing you have to understand. This Raven season has made me realize a lot of things about myself and about fandom. And some of them have been very distressing.

But some of them have led to growth and maturation. Personal growth. Exactly. And I do find myself at the end of this focusing more on what a joy it was to watch Lamar and Ingram and your boy Gus Buss and Hollywood and Hayden Hurst and Mark Andrews and Humphrey and Judon and everyone all season long. And to see what the analytics team was able to do and the innovative nature of how DaCosta built and executed the plan and how every single person in the franchise opted in and together they worked as a team with a united vision.

And I found myself grateful for that. And plus Mina had to cut off her penis. That was fun too. We exchanged some wonderful text messages with her after the game. She's that penis-less. That's, you know, now I find myself in a position

where I have to decide whether I'm rooting for the Titans because you want the team to beat you to go all the way so that you feel like basically like you were in the way of destiny. There was nothing that you could have done. Flip side of it

is I think an obvious one. I kind of need Mahomes to get his title now. Oh. Get it out of the way. Right. And then clear the decks. Let Lamar take over again next year. Because the thing that you would fear from a Chiefs-Mahomes run is an obvious one.

It's the narrative swing. But thanks to many people, including you, that's already happening. That's already the thing that people are talking about in the wake of the game, which was one of the things that really led to such a severe and instant sense of dread for me as the loss was unfolding. It was not just that I wasn't going to see this team win a Super Bowl. It was that it was so fucking predictable what every talking point was going to be in the wake of it.

And of course, that's all unfolded perfectly described. I'd like to think I helped contribute to it. You did. You did your part. Well, I was thinking about- Act one, scene one. In the mid-90s, where everybody thought Leo was the golden boy for a while. But then Stephen Dorff had kind of a moment.

Are you kidding me right now? And then it was like, well, maybe it's Stephen Dorff. And then Titanic came out and Leo and then that and Stephen Dorff. I don't know what happened to him. I just hope Lamar doesn't turn out to be Stephen Dorff. That's what I want to tell you. I wanted to say that. I wanted you to hear it from me and not from somebody else.

Stephen Dorff was an MVP candidate at one point in his career. No? True Detective season three, right? No? Stephen Dorff? Big comeback? Deputy? About to drop?

When did you- Kyle's nodding. When you saw Lamar during the many times they showed him in the first half when he had that look like, what the fuck is going on in his face? At what point did you get truly frightened? I was frightened before the game even started. And from the moment that things started

to go wrong, it felt like something was happening in the universe that was beyond control of anyone on the field. Football's the worst when that happens. Yeah. It's so weird with a football game where you know almost in the first five minutes, it's like being at a blackjack table where you're just like, oh man, this is just going badly. I should get up.

So, you know, the thing that was particularly troubling about the weekend, I think, is that, of course, the script started to unfold in similar fashion in the Texans-Chiefs game, and then the Chiefs were able to mount the comeback. So then you lose a little bit of the ground on which you'd like to stand when you want to say, well, sometimes it just falls apart so quickly that there's no way to come back. Of course, there is a way to come back. We saw it happen the next day. said, I think the nature of the loss, it was just one of those things that even though it never felt like they were going to be able to claw their way back into the

game, it doesn't actually make sense that it happened the way it did. And that's because every single thing that defined the nature of the Ravens' success all season long, every single thing went wrong. Everything. Everything that had long, every single thing went wrong.

Everything. Everything that had gone right the whole year went wrong. And so, certainly you're within your- Hold on, you're talking about the Rockets or the Ravens? You're within your rights to ask if that's a matter of preparation or anything else, the ability to execute the game plan in the playoffs, whatever. But, you know, you can pick any number of examples. The fourth down thing felt very emblematic to me.

That was a differentiator for them all year. It wasn't just about the playmakers they had on the field, the play call, the nature of the game plan. It was the fact that from every individual person on the roster and every individual coach on the staff to the front office and how they draft and who they sign, everything is about being in a position to go for it, like to play the game that way. And they succeeded consistently, not only because they knew how to execute well, but because they were committed to doing that all the time. Like it's an attitude and a mindset. It's not just a decision in the moment.

Right? That's how I play video games. Okay, perfect. I have a mindset. There you go. You know when you boot up the controller exactly how you're going to play. And it just all of a sudden was gone. Fourth and one, you can't get it.

More than once in the same game. I don't know what to do when things like that are happening. Also, plenty of people out there are going to... We don't need to rehash last week's game. It was a bad game. I don't know what to do when things like that are happening. Also, plenty of people out there are going to- We don't need to rehash last week's game. It was a bad game. That's my point. It was a bad game. It happens. You had a bad game. But I sent you a lot of pie the next day though. You did. You sent me nine slices of pie. They're delicious. But I only sent you one pumpkin. Your husband ate them. He did. He ate the pumpkin. It did make me think like Postmates and Caviar, they should do a better job when you're gifting other people food.

Yeah. It should be more obvious than just this food randomly gets delivered to your door unless the other person tells you you don't know where it came from. Yes. Because it is really easy to send somebody else food. Oh, sure. Absolutely. So they should have a little gift element to it. An alert?

Come on, Postmates. You texted me and said, I believe the way you phrased it was I'm dropping something off in a few minutes yeah quickly walk you through you didn't know if it was like quickly walk you through what unfolded

in those three minutes between when you sent that text and when you thought I was actually coming over you were on your way in the flesh to my home

so Adam and I had been on the couch I was doing work we were both in pajamas Adam put some clothes on exactly so we have to get dressed immediately

I was like clean up the house. It's a mess. Open the windows. Let's get some fresh air circulating. Brush halo. Bill's going to meet halo. Been waiting for this day for so long. And then you didn't come.

I was trying to think of, I was putting myself in your shoes. You know, I've won a lot of titles this century, but I've had some bad losses too. Yeah, we've heard. you know I've won a lot of titles this century but I've had some bad losses too but it reminded me that Ravens game of game 6 Celtics Miami 2012 when we beat them in game 5 and then game 6 was going to be this coronation in Boston I flew back

for it this is it today is our magical holiday when we finally broke it in LeBron once and for all and then he came out and killed us and you knew right away and that's what the Ravens came out and moved. Before we go though I want to talk about cheating. Not cheating on your spouse. No, of course

not. Baseball cheating. I can't believe you're not gonna you're not gonna issue formal support for Lamar before we move on. Oh, I'm pro Lamar. I think he needed to have one. He needs to learn from it. The dropped passes.

The leadership part of it needs to be a big piece of who he becomes going forward. When this is going wrong, I'm the guy. We got this. Don't worry. He just wasn't in that situation before. I have absolutely no doubt in his ability to embrace that aspect of his continued growth because he holds himself accountable consistently for what goes wrong and he will come in next season wanting to do better. There's nothing you can do about the fact that Derrick Henry became Tim Tebow in that game. You had eight guys in the box

that were still running amok. And the fucking little jump pass in the red zone. Well, they added Lamar to Madden KO, my son's favorite game, on the Madden 2020 or whatever it to Madden KO, my son's favorite game. Yeah. On the Madden 2020 or whatever it is, the KO where you, it's like this,

basically these quick games and they have legends in there and they added Lamar as like a new legend and he's terrifying. So he's got that also. I'm sincerely hopeful that we can all push through this little recency bias bout and not forget that we just witnessed one of the most astonishing seasons in the history of the sport. Yeah, nobody will remember. So cheating. Yeah.

What a time in baseball. I lost my manager and I really liked him. I liked him personally. You loved Alex Cora. I liked him as just a human being. I thought he was an amazing manager. And within a week, he's disgraced. And his only chance now is to get hired by ESPN to be with A-Rod.

Oh, I don't know. I mean... They hired A-Rod! Who's the bigger cheater than him? That guy's a serial liar and cheater. He works for ESPN. We'll see what Alex Kor's ban is. I mean, at some point you become so toxic that everyone has to stay away from you for at least a little while.

I'm not saying it. Alex Kor, if you're listening, I'll give you a podcast right now. It'd be great. What should you call it? It's like the trash can? The Alex Cora show. Banging on a trash can? Yeah, trash can banging with Alex Cora.

What was that old Doug song? Kyle, did you watch Doug banging on a trash can? Yeah, I saw that. Yeah. Drawing on a street light. Anyway, Kyle knows what we're talking about. We're taping this on a Thursday afternoon. There's a whole thing today with Altuve and hiding his jersey. Don't Kyle knows what we're talking about. We're taping this on a Thursday afternoon. There's a whole thing today

with Altuve and hiding his jersey. Don't forget Beltran got fired this morning. I mean, every five minutes there is a new wave to this story. The Mets fantasy finally had a manager

who was fired up about and the guy got fired and didn't even win a game. I have to say that of all of the aspects of the story, which is evolving literally by the second.

Yeah. The Mets. Just being involved. The Mets saying, excuse us. Oh, yeah. We prize integrity above all. We, the Welpons, cannot be associated with anything nefarious or foul

is actually something that defies comprehension and belief. I can't believe it. I can't believe it. I mean, can you imagine if they'd been involved in the Bernie Madoff scandal? I know. If only they'd been involved in a national pyramid scheme at some point. God. It was really rich. It's amazing. I really liked Alex Cora. My team has no manager and it's mid January. I now have another asterisk on another title from other fans. I, to me, it's like, we won. You can't say anything that makes me change, but basically the only team I have that nobody is giving me shit can make fun

of and say you cheated to win. That one is the 08 Celtics. So I really hope that the KG doesn't have some PD scandal belatedly 20 years later. He made it through the uncut gems press tour intact. I think he's probably fine at this point. But it was like that Red Sox title. Cause the other three,

which people like to point at Manny and Poppy, which I, and I have defenses for all of it. Don't worry. Okay. But people will still point and be like, ah, you cheated Manny and Poppy. And I'm like, well, Poppy, New York times. They never said what the substance was in Manny.

I mean, it was happened after. But this 18 one was pretty pure. So pure. And now our disgrace manager. Purely orchestrated by the mastermind of the Astro sign stealing scandal. Yeah. It's not great. It's not great. I'm pretty conflicted.

I wonder if there's any endpoint for this, for baseball, because it was absurd from the jump. And I think that if you're a baseball fan, you've probably gone through some sort of cycle with how you're processing and responding to this. Responding to the cheating scandal or to just cheating in general? To this specific scandal. But I think that question is actually is fundamental because, you know, when we talked about this on your pod, when this was when the athletic report came out, I think initially. Yeah. The part of the whole unwritten rules culture of baseball is that some stuff is inbounds.

And if you're not trying to do it, then you're not trying at all. The specifics at play with what happened in Houston and then the fact that it was Houston and everything else that has happened with that franchise and all of the other scandals.

The biggest villain we have. That have touched them, yeah. That obviously started to filter into how people process it. I think undoubtedly that was part of what was on Manfred's mind when he issued the punishments. The Jeff Lundlow, the GM, getting his suspension. And Hinch, obviously the manager, was also suspended. Then the Astros were the ones who fired both of them. Our baseball team has written about this, talked about it on the pod.

Seems very clear that everything else that had happened with Houston in recent years was also in some way contributing to what happened there. But then when you just think about the sign stealing aspect of it, the way that other pitchers are coming out now and basically saying, I think it was maybe Alex Wood today who said, I'd rather face a batter on steroids than someone who knows what pitch I'm about to throw. Like the impact. Yeah. The impact that it has on the game in that sense is substantial. I think a fascinating thing that's unfolding is the Dodgers aspect of this. Well, I wanted to talk about that. I have some Dodger fan friends.

Yeah. They're struggling. They're devastated. Yes. I had one Dodger fan friend who said the game in 17 in the World Series when they were up and then Kershaw. And they just left the game. They were like, that was unbelievable. It was like they knew what pitches were coming almost.

Almost, yeah. But then you think about Kershaw and Darvish too, which you made that point as well, where you have these two guys who their careers were altered by how bad they did in the postseasons. Yeah, their careers and their legacies. And now I think we're 100% confident the Astros at least knew what pitches were coming in some cases. It's pretty fucked up.

Yeah. And when is Kershaw going to say something? This is his one chance to be like, this is not fair. I have been tainted by this. I wear the scarlet letter of the playoffs and these guys were cheating against me. I think a couple things, I'll be fascinated to see if he says anything.

I think a couple things might prevent him from saying anything like that. None of us should. But if the Dodgers were doing stuff. If the Dodgers, exactly. And the Brewers accused the Dodgers of stealing signs last playoffs. Do you think this is one of those things where just everybody does it? And like in football, when the offensive coordinators started covering their mouths with the playbook and it was like 15 years ago and I was like, why are they doing that? It's because everybody was cheating? I think the answer to that question is yes. I think that the nature in which each individual organization

is cheating probably varies. And that again, I think Bauman made this point this week. And Lindbergh too. When you think about the Astros and how they represent this decade in baseball, you take the good with the bad. And part of the Astros' legacy is that they were the best at everything.

And they were the best at cheating. And that's part of why they got caught, ultimately, is because they were so brazen. This whole, we can do anything that you can do better, we're the smartest, pushed them to the point where eventually they got caught. The Kershaw thing. You feel bad for him.

It's crushing. It's honestly crushing because I think that I think that he would probably be the first to say that you could not isolate his bad games to just these experiences.

True. And that's true. He sucks against many playoff teams. I mean, as recently as this past postseason, you know? But at some point, with Kershaw in particular, it felt like there was just this compounding variable where the fact that he kept finding himself in this position where this was the discussion point around him

and this was the thing he couldn't push through. Yeah. You know, the effect at a certain point was exponential. And so I think that's a fair thing to ask is if things go differently in 2017 against the Astros or in 2018 when he's facing Alex Cora's Red Sox, does that then allow him to get back onto a better path at some point?

So he pitches against them game one of the World Series 2017. Seven shutout innings. Oh, no, seven one-run innings. 11 strikeouts. He's awesome. And he's 3-0 for the playoffs at that point. Game five gets shelled. Yeah.

That was the 13-12 game. Right. And he picked last four and two-thirds, six. And where was that one? Six runs. That was in Houston.

Yes, it was. So that's tough. Dylan Hernandez wrote a piece in the LA Times and I would recommend whether you're a Dodgers fan or not, checking out the LA Times coverage of this. Yeah.

It's been remarkable. Dylan Hernandez wrote a piece that this is a loose paraphrase of what he wrote. I don't want to act like I'm quoting this verbatim or anything, but there were a lot of lines in there that were cruel things that people had said about you,

Darvish, and the spoiler alert, the punchline of the column is basically they're all things that he had written about you Darvish and the the spoiler alert the punchline of the column is basically they're all things that he had written that that Dylan Hernandez had written about him okay and he's he's basically like a little column gimmick I feel like shit about this now and you Darvish has been very open about his struggles after that postseason and how hard it was for him to cope with being branded as a failure, becoming somebody who people talked about,

as someone who couldn't actually follow through on what his worth and ability was supposed to be. He did send a tweet. It was in typical Darvish fashion. It was charming and it was funny. He said,

if the Dodgers are planning a 2017 World Series parade, I would love to join. So if that is in the works, can someone make a you garbage jersey for me? So he's being self-deprecating about it. It's kind of sad, though. But it is heartbreaking. You know, Ben Lindbergh wrote a piece for us back in November assessing what actually the benefits of sign stealing are. You know, we know this happened, but do we know whether it worked?

And interestingly, throughout the reporting process around this and in the report itself, that has been kind of left unclear, is what impact did this actually have? But I think it's at the point where you kind of have to say... It seems like the home and away splits are pretty damning. Like that Darvish game,

game three at Houston, he lasted five outs, six hits, four runs, one walk. And you think like, it just makes you rethink everything that's happened. So even the Altuve walk off against Chapman,

which was probably the single coolest baseball moment of last year and one of the best replays and had the iconic freeze frame image, which wasn't a freeze frame of Chapman with that dumb smile on his face for 10 seconds. And that dumb smile had to have been, I can't believe

you knew I was going to throw a change up there. You motherfucker, you're stealing signs is how now I interpret that weird look. Before it was just like, wow, that was a great hit. Right. Now it's like, you motherfucker. Did you see the Boris comment

on why Altuve didn't want to take his jersey off? Because this has been the latest round. Because there's this other clip about where they ripped his jersey off. Right. And then there's this whole, like this whole, the whole slew of stuff on social media.

Well, the Josh Reddick one's pretty damningning though well josh reddick's wife has since tweeted that it was confetti flesh colored confetti he looked like he was in the irishman with a wire on it's what it is so this is a joel sherman tweet from thursday afternoon sc, Scott Boris quote about Altuve. And I, as far as I can tell, this is real. Yeah. I asked Boris about Altuve not wanting to have a shirt ripped off as he came to home plate to end the ALCS. And Boris said, that is the shyness of Jose Altuve. If you do a Google image search, a Getty image search, anything, for shirtless Altuve, you will instantly have about 500 photos available to you. His shirt's up right now.

That is absurd. You have to be able to come up with a better defense than that. Are you kidding? So I think that's one of the questions is, you know, one of the things in Manfred's report was that the players were not going to be punished as part of this for various reasons, some of which were stated clearly,

some of which I stated clearly, some of which I think were left open to interpretation. They had to get the players to talk. They had to get them to tell them what had happened. And so- Or threaten them with a suspension. Yeah, basically offered them some version of immunity to cooperate. Also-

Well, but think about this though. They're with other teams. You're going to punish other teams now, et cetera. But that's the other team's part of this is what I think is so insane that they thought this could work. Right. If we like, let's say the ringer.

Okay. Let's say we had this whole scheme. Can't say scheme. Scheme. Scheme. Where. Where we figured out a way to completely goose our page views, our podcast numbers,

our YouTube things. It was just all artificially enhanced by four times as much. And everybody who worked for us knew. And we did this and we were able to sell ads for hire. And it just was this scheme that we knew if anyone ever found out, it would be just incredibly damaging.

Well, how would somebody find out if somebody leaves the company and goes to a competitor and is like, hey, you know what they do over there? They do this. In baseball, you have turnover every year. So how do they think that out of the 10 to 15 guys who leave the team every year, not one of them is going to be like, hey, we're playing the Astros this week. Just so you guys know that this whole system with the blah, blah, blah.

That's what's so idiotic about this. But that is what happens. I mean, Mike Fiers, a player, is the one who ultimately blew the whistle and revealed all of this to the Athletic with the initial report. He should have because he was probably playing the Astros going, fuck, we have to pitch in Houston. I'm going to get shoved. Yeah. But then so what does what does Major League Baseball do now? Because it seemed like, you know, part of the reason that the punishment, the initial punishment against the Astros earlier this week was as harsh as it was. And you certainly could say it wasn't harsh enough.

But comparatively speaking, it was as harsh as it was because Manfred had warned teams in 2017. And then the Astros had continued to do this in the flying in the face of a specific admonishment and warning to not do this. So part of the explanation that has since been revealed when issuing the punishment is that the players aren't going to be sanctioned in any way. But if new information is coming out, if the buzzer thing ends up being real. You think he could do a 180? I just don't know how you don't then go ahead and punish that if it is indisputable at a certain point. I actually think it would be worse for that player than if it's a steroids thing.

Because I think there's enough people doing steroids and PDs that there was a whole, well, you know, everybody else is doing it. You kind of had to. In this case, you become the buzzer guy. It comes out like Alex Bregman. I'm just naming a good astro. That for the last three years, he had a buzzer on his nipple that just electrocuted him every time a change-up was coming.

He carries that for the rest of his life. In a way deeper way than, oh, I just used this banned substance. Well, it's of a piece with the steroids thing in the sense that it's ultimately all about trying to get an edge, right? And trying to position yourself to succeed

and boost your numbers in some way. I think that you're right that in people's minds, this seems like almost greedier, I guess, or shadier in a way. Like there's something just kind of lame and pathetic about it that I think will be hard for people to get beyond it in their minds. And that ultimately, you know, there's an Astros point here and then there's a bigger picture point about baseball, which I think is important to talk about for a second. With the Astros, you can't take the title away. They won the championship. Same thing with the Red Sox, with the core aspect of this. And I think that there's an interesting comparison

to make there to something like a college football scandal where, you know, think about USC and Reggie Bush, you know, and the asterisk, oh, vacated Heisman, vacated title. In people's minds, in sports fans' minds, it doesn't matter that the NCAA said to vacate those titles so you're saying if they vacated the Astros title I'm saying it makes no fucking difference I still feel like they won the world series exactly and so it happened and in that

sense there is an aspect of this where you would be within your rights as a fan to say well why would any team or player stop this because at the the end of the day, if it works and you win the championship, flags fly forever, right? Well, but hold on before you go to the second part of the point. Is vacating this World Series? I don't think there's any chance. You think there's no chance? Something astonishing would have to be revealed still at this point. I just, part of the reason that there's no chance is because, and this is, I promise this is not a shot at the Dodgers. I don't have any theory about the Dodgers in particular,

but to the earlier point, we don't really know what the extent of this is across the sport. And so what are you going to do? Vacate the Astros title, award it to the Dodgers retroactively, and then find out in six months that the Dodgers were doing this or something like that? You could make that same case for college football, though. You could. Everyone che case for college football, though.

You could. Everyone cheats all over the place at college football. Exactly, though. So that's what I wanted to say, is that you don't want to work your way towards something where you're in any way mimicking the NCAA. I mean, the apparatus of justice and punishment in college sports is a disaster in almost every respect. And that's why something like the A.J. Hinch aspect of this, where on the one hand, he looks kind of like a little bit of a coward because he

clearly was opposed to this, didn't want his team to do it. One of the most astounding details in the report is that he bashed the replay monitor. He broke the monitor twice so that they couldn't do this. That was his way of trying to get them to stop, but he never just said stop. And multiple players in the report said that if he had just said stop, they would have. Now, whether that's true or not, I think is a reasonable question to ask. But his suspension felt to me very akin to like a lack of institutional control or a show cause punishment for- Which is why most of these people go down. Exactly.

Politics, sports, whatever. It was happening on your watch and you didn't know. It's negligence. Two quick things before we go. Yes. One, the Astros, it's not the triple crown because there's more things than just three, but they really checked all the boxes for how to become the most loathsome franchise in any sport. Terrible. The Asuna stuff.

The guy in the front office harassing people, female media members for really no reason at all just to be a fucking dick, which would have been weird in 1989, much less 2019. That was in Manfred's report, by the way. It was just the culture, the toxic

culture that they were fostering. The other stuff they did with draft picks and all and, and, uh, and rookies and all that stuff. The only thing they've really missed here is a PD thing. They're one thing short. Like that's the last piece. It's baseball. Give it time. You know, we need that for, to really be like, okay, now if we have the documentary and by the way, this will be a documentary for somebody at some point, just the people that pushed it too far. Let's get Cora and Beltran working on it right now.

It's basically like Enron. It's Enron as a sports team, right? The people that are just going, we need any edge we can get. We don't care. All that matters is that we win the title. Do what it takes. This is where you get to the bigger question about baseball

and where you shift from being able to kind of laugh at this and say this is the weirdest sports scandal that I can recall in a long time. This is just bizarre. To actually having to take a step back and think for a moment about what the impact on the sport is because to parrot a Zach Cram point here

you couple this with the juice ball and you were and then anything else you might mention like steroids anything else that's happening or has happened or could happen again and you get to a point where you're entering the next season and you don't know what's real. We have lost the ability.

And this was Zach wrote a great piece in our year end package back in December about baseball is a story. And now the ball is an unreliable narrator. You now couple it with something like this, where you're unsure of who has the information. Bauman made the gambling point, the MLB deal with MGM. What information can you trust?

How does that impact gambling in the sport? When money is on the line, this becomes a much bigger deal. Do people trust the integrity of the product? And whether you want to get- We haven't even talked about juice balls and juice bats and all that stuff either. Exactly. Whether you want to get kind of like sanctimonious about it and talk about the sanctity of the game is like a personal choice. But that's where this is heading.

And it morphed very quickly from being something at the beginning of the week that felt, and I say this acknowledging the fact that plenty of people probably would disagree with this, something that you could almost maybe talk yourself into being good for baseball because it was getting people talking about the sport. It was getting people to engage with the sport and find it interesting in a way that baseball needs. Like any controversy is a good controversy? You know, no bad press, right? And we've, I think, quite quickly moved out of that being true. No, this is terrible. Yeah. And I know there's going to be another shoe to drop with Cora. We don't even fully know what happened to 2018 Red Sox yet.

I'm bracing myself. Jacko has been sending me plenty of texts. He was supposed to actually come on today, but he got sidetracked. So we're going to have him next week. But, you know, the Red Sox kind of own the Boston Globe. Not kind of, but they do. And there's a hole on your way out.

Here's a hit piece for you on the way out. And I just shudder what's going to happen to Alex Cora. There's going to be a really bad piece about him and it's going to suck. And I really like that guy. We're going to find out though, more specifics about what was happening with the Red Sox. And I'm sure that will not be the last thing that we learn.

You know, again, like you said, it's sports. You're with one team and then you're not. you're somewhere else. And the diaspora is vast. You know, I hesitate to even mention my own team, but Mike Elias, the GM of the Orioles used to be an assistant GM for the Astros. It's like the Orioles are so irrelevant right now that nobody's even talking about them, but who knows what, who knows what the number of franchises. 12, 15 more good players and you guys might be able to cheat your way into a World Series. Okay, so I know you're being a dick,

but you're making a valid point because that's the last thing or one of the other things that's worth mentioning here. The Astros were the template team. Yeah. Now what? This was the blueprint

for how to tank and rebuild in baseball now. Now what? That's not what you want to replicate anymore? There's one more point on top of all of these points. Them during this season is going to be absolutely fascinating. I mean, it's going to be a mess. Let's say Altuve starts out hitting 215. Yeah.

And it's just genuine. He's just in a slump because of all this pressure. But if you're like, you're not getting the signs anymore. Like, it's going to. He's just in a slump because of all this pressure. But if you're like, you're not getting the signs anymore. Like it's going to suck for them unless they're awesome. And everybody's going to continue to parse every detail from the past. Every photo in the locker room, everyone's going to be looking at the little bulges

and their jerseys. What's a wire? What's taped? What's a buzzer? This is not going away. It's only going to get weirder. Well, it's actually in a weird way, probably is good for baseball

with social media and stuff because otherwise nobody's talking about baseball right now. We're just weeks away from pitchers and catchers reporting, folks. Mal, this is a pleasure as always. It was a delight.

I really hope this isn't way worse for the 2018 Red Sox. I have my fingers crossed. Thanks for coming on. Sorry about Lamar. I believe in Lamar forever. Call my dad in one second. First, wanted to remind you,

Book of Basketball 2.0, that is happening this week. And if you're a Knicks fan, I would subscribe. That's one thing. Second, rewatchables. We have a hundred rewatchables episodes in the bank. So Chris Ryan and I, the next one,

we will be doing the reheat. Did heat is the first one ever. We're doing heat again. Every hundred, we just do heat. It's part of the rules of the rewatchables. So you can listen to that. And by the way, speaking of Mallory, she is still doing Binge Mode Star Wars.

There's only a couple episodes left. If you love Star Wars, I would check that out as well. My dad does not have a podcast. We've always joked about the Blue Plate special for him has not happened yet, but let's call him right now. I want to see what's going on in Boston.

All right, last but not least, anytime there's a massive Boston sports scandal of some sort, I always have to call my dad on the pod. Dad, we lost our manager. I don't know what the hell happened We hardly knew you Joey, Alex Cora

I almost called him Joey We had Joey Cora too I think we had both We did What a two year run I'm still in shock What's it like there? What's the radio like? What's the press like? What's it like there? What's the radio like?

What's the press like? What's the TV like? What are the people like? What is the reaction in Boston? Well, it's kind of interesting. If you watch the Mike Felder show, which I know you're very familiar with, he's, of course, extremely bad-mouthing the whole Red Sox ownership for not taking responsibility during their press conference the other day. It's true.

And for not firing Cora instead of this mutual parting of the ways. I think the person on the street who isn't that familiar with electronic stealing of signs and, you know, what does it all mean? You know, it doesn't seem to be in the same ballpark as using steroids to most people. I think still views Cora as the manager who seemed to communicate best of any manager we've ever had. Yeah. Led us to a World Series title. And we had a lot of optimism for the upcoming season. And for all those reasons,

most people feel he'll be terribly missed. On the other hand, unless it comes out that he was the ringleader of the 2018 Red Sox cheating in a whole bunch of different ways. I was just going to say that, you know, it was very interesting to watch the press conference and particularly Henry kind of sugarcoat what might be coming out about the Red Sox. And, you know, as a fan, I hope he's accurate. I hope it's not nearly on the level of what went on in Houston, but on any level, it's kind of a disaster as a Boston fan.

I mean, we've already been terribly criticized for the Patriot stuff, and now we have this coming down the pike. It's tough, I think, to be a Boston fan right now with all the criticism across the country. I know nobody feels sorry for us. So there's that too. You left out that there's a three part Netflix documentary about Aaron Hernandez that premiered on Netflix this week that by the way, it was really good. I haven't watched it.

It got a critical, good critical review up here. Yeah. I think, to be candid, I don't think anybody up here probably wants to watch anything more, hear anything more about Hernandez. Yeah, I would hope not. Man, what's going on at your house? It's really crazy over there.

Yeah, busy time. Yeah, I was saying Mally was on before and I was saying how at least the 2008 Celtics have been completely unsullied still. Totally genuine title. Still feeling really good about it. Nobody can throw any Astros at us.

Your phone won't stop ringing. I'd say the same thing as well about the 2011 Bones title yeah I texted you two days ago it's just a very sad feeling here because Cora was so admired

the stuff he did for charity not just for Puerto Rico, but for charitable efforts in the greater Boston area. Yeah. He was very accessible. You know, he didn't duck questions the way most of our former managers duck questions. He's a straight shooter. But now there's this like dark side that kind of just makes you kind of shake your head as a sports fan, doesn't it? Yeah, I don't.

Mallory and I were just talking about how weird it is to think when you have this 25 player roster that 10 to 15 of the guys leave and go on another team a year later, why you would think this whole giant thing you're doing could be stayed secret no matter what. Well, yeah. I mean, you and I talked about that, you know, on Houston 2017. Yeah. They did not think it would come out.

I mean, and now, of course, you feel the same thing that three unidentified former Red Sox players on the championship team have come forward. Maybe their names will never be known, but you just got to shake your head. It's such a stupid, stupid thing to do. You just shake your head. You know, it's the other thing about Cora. I think what was greatly admired about him was his character and his integrity yeah and and now you're it's like we were bamboozled on character and integrity

I mean what else is left you you know those are very very important things to me yeah and uh you can't help but but look at Cora differently and just kind of shake your head about sports a little bit. I guess at least we have Brad Stevens. He's still got him. We do. He seems like he's got character and integrity. He seems to.

Seems to. I mean, I've always felt so. We're so burned. We don't know who to trust anymore. Tom Brady's leaving. Kyle's all upset. We're so burned. We don't know who to trust anymore. Tom Brady's leaving. Kyle's all upset. Tom Brady might go. It's definitely, this could be a weird decade.

I'm ready for a weird decade. It's a weird time up here. I mean, on top of the fact that the Celtics got killed by the Detroit Pistons last night. Right. And the Bruins have looked terrible lately. And the Red Sox are going down in flames. And we're not in the playoffs in football. Yeah, we sat out a round two in football.

Maybe it's finally turned. But we had a great 20 years. We had a great 20 years. But I don't know, to bring closure to the Corridor episode, I'm just shaking my head. I just don't understand how men with integrity and character, men or women, can go down that path when it's so obvious that somebody's going to talk about it later.

It makes no sense. It's true. Well, at least you love the Celtics team, so at least we have that. I do love the Celtics team. So at least we have that. I do. I do love the Celtics team. I'm a little confused why they're so inconsistent. It seems like any time one of their starters doesn't play, we fall apart. And obviously Tatum didn't play last night, missed the first game he's missed this year.

And we look terrible. I think the NBA regular season, and there's always like an exception. This year is the Bucs probably where they're just pretty consistent week after week. But in general, all these teams shoot so many threes now. I just think it's really hard to have a normal month. You just have these games where somebody will get hot or somebody makes 19 threes or you go three for 27 from three or whatever. It just seems

like there's more variance. We lost that Washington game. Ishmich just got super hot for two and a half quarters and all of a sudden we're going to lose to this Wizards team that didn't have Bradley Beal. It seems like that stuff happens more than ever lately. It happened a lot to us last year when one guy would get hot.

Like I watched the Lakers last night, the Lakers magic game, and Markel Fultz had a triple-double. I saw that. And they beat the Lakers. And it was like I wasn't that surprised because I do feel like the league is just way more random night to night than it used to be. Yeah.

I was watching the ESPN show a little bit today and they were talking about the basketball show at three o'clock. They were talking about faults and, and I'm happy for the guy. Me too. You know who killed us though? Last night, it wasn't three point shooting.

It was Derek Rose. Derek Rose made 11 two pointers if I recall. Yeah. He's always killed us. It was Derrick Rose. Derrick Rose made 11 two-pointers, if I recall. Yeah. He's always killed this. He was unstoppable last night. You know, the Fultz thing, the Fultz thing's, I think,

one of the most incredible NBA stories in a while. They gave that guy away. They gave him away. That trade they made where they didn't even really get anybody who helped them last year.

They got Jonathan Simmons, who I think they thought was going to help them and didn't. And then they got a second round pick last year, 33. And then a lottery protected 2022 pick from OKC. Well, that's what they were talking about. They didn't really get anything. On the jump today that Philly waited like three years for Embiid to get his act together, but they didn't have the patience to wait on Fultz. And as you said, gave him up for nothing.

Yeah, and in a weird way, they would have been better off keeping him, and then at least he could have been a trade asset maybe for last summer or during the season this year because he was making like $10 million a year. I'm glad they didn't keep him for that reason, although I don't think he would have fit on this Philly team. I'm not sure where he would have played. No, he wouldn't have fit.

It's a great story, though. The kid's only 21. I really enjoyed watching him last night, because the Lakers kind of didn't know what to do with him. He was going all over the place. But yeah, what a miss, man. You throw that combined with the Tatum part of it. And yet Philly beats us every time we play.

So I guess we can't talk too much. All right. I wanted to check in to see how you're feeling about Cora. I'm glad. It's nice to have you on the podcast, Dad. We should mention, you had like the Ebola virus for months, but now your health is finally turning around. But yeah, you've been sick for like nine months.

I had the visit to Cuba and Bolivirus. I'm not going back to Cuba, by the way. Yeah, don't go back to Cuba. You had a cough for like nine months, but yeah, feeling better. All right, sad everybody in Boston for us. All right, take care. Bye.

All right, thanks to ZipRecruiter. Thanks to Square. More than a little white credit card reader. A whole system of tools built to run and grow any kind of business from point of sale and payroll to invoices and online stores. Go to square.com slash go slash BS to see all the ways you can take your business from Square One to whatever's next. And then with the New Year officially here and everyone vowing to restrictive resolutions,

Pepsi wants to usher in the new decade a bit differently by encouraging everyone to unapologetically do what you enjoy, even in the face of others' judgment, like winning titles in football and baseball and then being judged by other people because we may or may not have done them honestly. Listen, I'm not here to judge. I'm just here to celebrate my title and buy the DVD after. Pepsi, that's what I like. Enjoy the rest of the week and we will see you Sunday night. Me, House, and Sal. Usually good times when House and I are together. There's a lot of rumors of Drunk House.

We'll see how that goes. Anyway, we'll see you this weekend. I want to see them on the way so I never say I don't have feelings with them. On the way so I never say I don't have feelings with them.