The Bill Simmons Podcast - The Oscars Race, 'Anchorman,’ 'SNL,' 'Step Brothers,' and 'Vice' With Adam McKay and Sean Fennessey | The Bill Simmons Podcast (Ep 466)

Episode Date: January 9, 2019

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Sean Fennessey to recap the Golden Globes and keep an eye on the Oscars race (2:14). Then Bill sits down with director and screenwriter Adam McKay to discuss his time at 'SNL,' comedic film eras, teaming up with Will Ferrell, Funny or Die, making 'Anchorman,' 'Step Brothers,' 'Talladega Nights: The Ballad of Ricky Bobby,' 'The Big Short,' and 'Succession,' as well as his new film 'Vice' starring Christian Bale (26:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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We're also brought to you by TheRinger.com, the world's greatest website, as well as The Ringer Podcast Network, the world's greatest website, as well as The Ringer Podcast Network, the world's greatest podcast network. We're going to talk movies today, but we also have a lot of sports on The Ringer, Ringer NBA, Ringer NFL. You can find us a whole bunch of ways.

If you want to hear me talk about basketball this week, I'm going over on The Low Post with Zach Lowe tomorrow, and that's running on his podcast. Then he's going to come do mine a week from now. So get ready for that as well. Coming up, Sean Fennessey is going to break down the Oscars and where we're heading after a bizarre Golden Globes. And then we're going to have a long conversation with the director of Vice,

Adam McKay, who might have done a couple movies you might've heard of called Stepbrothers, Anchorman, a whole bunch of things. He's also the first guest to ever lay down on my couch like it was a therapy session. So that's all coming up. This is a good podcast. Here we go. Pearl Jam. All right, we're going to get to Adam McKay in a little bit.

Sean Fennessey is here right now. Hey, Bill. Chief Content Officer of The Ringer. Host of The Big Picture. Yes. Did a Golden Globes recap on Sunday night. It seems like every year people forget that we shouldn't take anything from the Golden Globes at all.

They're so stupid. What's wrong with them? They're really, really stupid. I don't know. I get so worked up and excited about it too. And every year I'm like, seriously? Bohemian Rhapsody? This is what we're doing?

Bohemian Rhapsody is the worst movie that's ever won the thing. But I was talking to my wife about it. And my wife was like, you and your ringer people, you guys are bullies. But Amy and Rhapsody is a good movie. Our whole family liked it. Why couldn't that win the Golden Globe?

And I'm like, you're kind of right. It was a very satisfying movie for like an incredible amount of people. Yes, it was a huge, huge hit. That's one reason why it won. It's definitely the worst, I would say the worst reviewed movie to have won in a long time. Yeah. I mean, even though even though it made people happy, I think somebody posted the Metacritic score. I think it was like forty nine, which is pretty rough. Yeah. I think people love Queen and it's OK to love

Queen. It's OK to want to hear Queen really loud in a room with a lot of people. People did that all throughout the 70s. They went to go see Queen perform. Those songs are incredible. That movie is just really boilerplate and kind of like elides some of the truth of Freddie Mercury's life. The facts are all wrong. There was a really good piece on the site by Stephen Hyden a couple of months ago when it first came out about how many things they did that weren't true to Queen's real life.

Yeah. And so there's just a lot of problems with the movie. You know, that's the thing. Even though it made a lot of people happy. It was still very enjoyable to watch. And the performance is really good. Rami Malek's great. And he won.

And he's an interesting wrinkle in the best actor category. He really is. Yeah. It's not unreasonable that he could win. I think Christian Bale's going to win for Vice. I know you just talked to Adam on this episode. He's coming up. We haven't technically talked to him yet.

Okay, he's coming up. It's Bale, Cooper, and Rami Malek right now. That's the trio. I was thinking like, and I don't think this will happen because the Academy voters, although we never know what the breakdown is and all that stuff,

but I was thinking there is a little of, it's like the underdog thing that nobody believes in this movie. Why can't this win? So could, could at the very least it get nominated?

Bohemian Rhapsody? Yeah. I think it will now. It's going to get nominated probably. I think so, yeah. And now he has to be the front runner, I feel like, because so many people

like this movie. Rami Malek, you And now he has to be the front runner, I feel like, because so many people like this movie. Rami Malek, you think? Yeah, and these Oscar voters are, they're at Thanksgiving, they're at Christmas, they're around other people who are like, oh, I love that movie, man. Well, you got to think about what's the breakdown of the Academy, right?

The most voters out of the 8,000 plus people are actors. So the actors really like Rami Malek. Do they like him more than Christian Bale? Probably not, but they really like him, so they'll nominate him. It was nominated for the PGA's, the producer's guild of what you remember. Um, and so it's going to be in that race. And I don't, I don't know if he's a front runner or it's a front runner, but I think it's going to definitely be in the conversation for the next two months. You know who I'm voting for? Bradley Cooper. Yeah. I thought what he did to his voice

was really, really something. That's good. That's good. Thank you. I've been working on that one. It's a little, it's a touch of my Andrew the Giant crossed with Bradley. I thought Christian Bale was really good. I haven't, I still haven't seen every movie yet, but I thought Christian Bale, I forgot he was Christian Bale after like 10 minutes, which is always a good way to judge an active performance. I really did feel like he became Dick Cheney. He actually gained the weight. He actually does the voice. He actually has the side mouth, totally talking out of the side of his mouth. I didn't think it was an easy part. My take on the Bale thing is that Daniel Day-Lewis is out of the picture now. He's retired. And now we need like a best living

actor person who like, who's the number one guy who's got the belt and he's got one Oscar and the way to coronate him as the second is by giving him a best actor Oscar. That's what I think he's going to win. Let's all be careful with this. Wow. Why?

Just we've learned our lessons with basketball. Don't just... What does that mean? MJ's retired. This person has to be the GOAT. Oh, I see. So you're saying he's Grant Hill. No, let to be the GOAT. Oh, I see. I see. So you're saying he's Grant Hill?

No, let's let Christian Bale earn it a little bit. Okay. Is he Vince Carter? No. Harold Minor? No, I think he's, you know, he's on a good pace. Okay. I'd like to see a couple more.

Okay. A couple more trophies. No? He's an amazing actor. He's been acting since he was 13. I think he's great but it's just like Daniel Day-Lewis is gone now here's the belt I'm not ready yet I'm not ready emotionally. Were you out on Newsies were you into that do you see that movie that was Christian Bale's first movie I think. I don't think I saw that one. It's a musical about

kids. I don't think Daniel Day-Lewis is retiring by the way I don't believe that for a second. What's he gonna do what's he to like work in a coffee shop? He strikes me as the kind of guy who would earnestly sit down and write poetry. Just for the next 20 years? Yeah, why not? Opens his journal, looks at his thoughts. Maybe do some bare knuckle boxing. I love Daniel Day-Lewis. I think that, I don't know, who actually is the best actor is a good question.

I don't think we have one. I think we have a lot of really, really talented people right now, but I don't think, I don't, to me, part of it has to be the respect from the other actors. I think before Phil Hoffman died, there was an understanding that he was right there in that conversation. Yeah. I don't know. It's there's, there's, there's the actor and then there's the movie star and Bale is both. Bale can open a movie. Vice has done pretty well. He's obviously been Batman. Plus, you know, in the fighter, he does a transformation. In Vice, he does a transformation. Like he's great at that. If I can just be blunt, I feel a little burned from Russell Crowe in the early 2000s. Yeah. Things have not shaken out well there. Great run and just seemed poised to grab the belt and hold the belt for a long period of

time. And then it just went sideways. Can I make an observation about Russell Crowe? Yeah. He also went through a transformation for a movie in 2018. It's called Boy Erased. It was a much smaller movie. He definitely gained about the same amount of weight that Christian Bale did. I don't know if people realize this. He's fucking huge though in Boy Erased. He looks like he's 350 pounds. I mean, he is enormous, but I think it was sort of for the role, but also just sort of for Waffle House. It's hard to know why he got that big. Yeah. I'd love to read, obviously the Johnny Depp profile is the highest standard of just spending four straight days with a crazy person. I'd love to find out exactly what happened

with Russell Crowe. Because if we were doing NBA trade value for actors, there was probably around Beautiful Mind, Gladiator, Proof of Life, The Insider. Around 2003, he had had this run and we all looked at each other and were like, that's the guy. And then it was just over and it seems like he's got some personal demons and made some weird choices, but I'd really love to know what happened from his perspective. I believe his next role is Roger Ailes. I think he's playing Roger Ailes in a story about Fox news. Cause there's a chance he might have this whole Richard Dreyfuss second John Voight type of he's he had higher peaks than those two guys. But I know Dreyfus may be there about that even. But there's a chance he's going to enter this whole awesome character actor stage.

Yeah, I mean, that's more or less what he's been doing the last five or 10 years. He's been taking smaller parts, supporting parts. He's still a good actor. Like, he's good in Boy Erased. That's a, it's a tough role. He plays a minister whose son is gay and he doesn't accept his son. And, you know, it's a very specific kind of issue oriented movie, but he gives a good performance. He was a minister whose son is gay and he doesn't accept his son. And, you know, it's a very specific kind of issue oriented movie, but he gives a good performance. He was always a good

actor. His performance in the insider is one of my favorites. That's an awesome underrated movie that you never suggest for the rewatchables because it's the only Michael Mann movie that you don't like for some reason. I don't know. I need to watch it again. I want to do proof of life. Chris Ryan and I, that's going to be a 20 for them, one for us, movie for us. Okay, cool. I don't approve. Proof of life. Fair enough. Incredible ending. Yeah. Great Caruso. Great heat check for Caruso.

Let's talk quickly about the three biggest subplots heading into the Oscars as we start getting close. You're covering all this stuff on The Big Picture. Yeah. You're doing the Oscars race. You're writing about it on the website. A bunch of people are writing about the website, actually. Usually right around now is when movies start getting undermined but it seems like this

has already happened with The Green Book yeah Green Book why did I say The Green Book it's Green Book because you hit that age where you start putting The in front of every title now you know your grandmother does that that comes along you cross that threshold how about that The Green Book

love The Green Book so Green Book already is going through the backlash and it even got brought up at the Golden Globes after they won stuff. Yeah, complicated story. I'm reluctant to kind of rehash the whole thing, but- No, no, they do the super cliff notes. Just very quick.

It's a story about a black musician named Don Shirley and a man named Tony Vallelonga who became his chauffeur and driver in the 60s. They became friends and sort of colleagues, and it's based on a true story. Peter Farrelly, who people know from There's Something About Mary and Kingpin and a bunch of comedies from the 90s,

directed this movie. It's based on a true story. The Shirley family has come forward and said some of the things in this movie are not true, specifically that Don Shirley didn't have a relationship to his family. They're saying he did. And also just that the movie kind of falls into that very complicated, you know, a magical black character teaches a white man about what the world should really be like.

And I think that the filmmakers intentions are sincere and they wanted to make a movie about bringing people together and what can happen, what friendship is really like between people that you might think are different but are not different. But it's evident that there are some things about this that people are really uncomfortable about. The movie has not been a huge hit. So usually movies like this get very successful and then there's a backlash. We saw this with Three Billboards last year where that movie made a lot of money and then the backlash happened. and this movie hasn't done quite as well but you know it won on Sunday night and it winning and now Peter Farrelly was just nominated for the Directors Guild of America today and you know that means it's going to be there at the Oscars and we're probably going to have six weeks of think pieces about Green Book which I kind of dread um you know I when I saw Green Book, I liked it.

That's like, the thing is, is that- You really liked it. I liked it. And I liked it because it's Viggo Mortensen and Mahershala Ali, two of my favorite actors, being awesome with a very fun script. There are things about it that are rough. There's a fried chicken scene that has come under fire,

that is complicated, that I can completely understand why people hate it. There's things about it that people don't like. But it's two really charismatic people being great together for two hours. And I like that aspect of it. That being said, if this movie hurt people, that sucks. I just don't want that to be the case.

And it'll be interesting to see how voters handle it. Because Peter Farrelly has been really successful for a long time and people like his movies. And there are some people that really like this movie. The favorite I know has come under fire for, I don't know. Being amazing. I actually, I really liked that movie. It's great. It's really fun. I thought it would have a little more momentum. Yeah. I mean, I've talked about this a little bit on the big picture. Fox Searchlight, the studio that made that movie is really good at Oscar campaigns. Yeah.

You know, they're responsible for Three Billboards and The Shape of Water last year. They really know how to do this well. I could see a very slow momentum building for it over the next six weeks. Three strong female characters. Yeah, and we saw Olivia Colman, who's the star, but she plays the queen, win on Sunday night. So, you know, I don't think it has a chance at best picture,

but it's definitely in the acting categories. 14 to one. All right, So Green Book is already under fire. Are there Bohemian Rhapsody at some point if it gets nominated? We didn't even bring up the Bryan Singer thing. I mean, that's a whole nother hornet's nest. Oh my God. That whole story is really complicated. He was fired or left that film midway through production and he still is the credited director along with another director. And if the movie wins, he would get an Oscar. It's a very dicey situation there. Dicey is one word to use.

I'm reluctant to kind of say more about it. And listen, just Google Bryan Singer and you'll understand why this is more than dicey. Yeah. So that's a tricky one. So that's two really, really controversial movies that are probably going to be contending. And then there's a bunch of movies that people really like that are contending too, which is nice. We don't always get that at the Oscars and this year we have it, you know? So what's, what didn't do very well on Sunday? A Star is Born. A Star is Born I thought was the front runner. I would have thought that was like Golden Globes catnip. I know, I know. People singing, major stars. What else does the Golden Globes want? Someone explained to me on Monday

that the folks who worked on Bohemian Rhapsody worked the Hollywood Foreign Press, which is the group that votes on the Golden Globes, very hard. Yeah. They spent two weeks really, really kissing up, you know, and spending a lot of time, getting a lot of face time with those voters.

And that's a very small group of people. And maybe a Star is Born didn't work as hard at that. Maybe, I honestly don't know. I was surprised. I thought Gaga would have won for sure. I thought A Star Is Born was going to win for best drama. Not the case. Who did Gaga lose to?

She lost to Glenn Close, who is the star of The Wife. Not going to be repeated at the Oscars. Movie I haven't seen. Thumbs up for Glenn Close. I love Glenn Close. We both love Glenn Close. She's not winning in the Oscars. Yeah, we't seen. Thumbs up for Glenn Close. I love Glenn Close. We both love Glenn Close. She's not winning in the Oscars.

Yeah, we'll see. Jenny Garb for life. Give me two other subplots heading into the Oscars. I think the biggest thing right now is will A Star Is Born kind of bounce back?

People have noted that it's the only movie that has been acknowledged by every major craft guild. So the producers, the directors, the editors, the cinematographers,

you know, the SAG Awards, all of those groups are all in on A Star Is Born. So I don't think A Star Is Born is down at any point. But I think the third thing, the kind of third narrative, and I'm trying to figure out a smart way to write about this is I can't remember the last time that Best Picture was so wide open. I feel like even from a gambling perspective, and we probably have to ask Sal about this, you know, I thought for months and months it was going to be Roma versus A Star is Born. And I'll bet those lines kind of moved a little bit after Sunday. You know, I bet that now that Green Book has a little bit more exposure, my guess is that more people see Green Book this week in theaters. Bohemian Rhapsody getting into the conversation. We haven't even really had a Black Panther conversation. It's plausible that that happens. Oprah was out a week and a half ago kind of doing press on behalf of Black Panther to get it exposed. And in Roma, which is Netflix's huge bid to win an Oscar. It's just a wide open race. So there's only five or six weeks to go. I'm excited to talk about the voting, but it's also time for NBA All-Star voting. This

year, it's actually easier than ever for fans to vote because you can vote just by searching on Google. Search for your favorite player or team. You can vote right in the search bar. You can also search on Google to stay up to date with live scores and view upcoming game schedules. The All-Star game, February 17th. Voting runs until January 21st. Fans can vote for 10 players a day. So go vote on Google. I'm going to vote on Google and vote on the ballot that they sent me. Beautiful. I'm double voting.

Is that legal? Huh? Can you do that? Is that legal? I just made it legal. On the Oscars odds, Sal and I have been betting on this for a few years and probably losing most of the years. I don't remember there never being a minus favorite.

Every odd right now is plus. What are the numbers? Roma is the quote unquote favorite, but it's plus 140. So bet $100, you win 140. Okay. Starsborne is two to one. Greenbook's plus 450. I'm with you.

I think all the hullabaloo about it is sunk it. Yep. Bohemian Rhapsody is six-1. That's not winning, especially with Bryan Singer. Google him. The Favorite, 14-1. Black Panther, 25-1. Black Klansman, 25-1. If Beale Street Could Talk,

25-1. Vice, 25-1. And then it starts going up and up. I guess my first question would be, let me say say over or under eight movies get nominated. You go under or over? Over.

You go over? I think we're going 10. So that means that really could split the vote in a way where Bohemian Rhapsody could get 18% of the vote and win. There's such a complicated system. We're actually working on a piece for the site

and for YouTube right now about explaining how the voting specifically works. This is kind of an obsession of me and Amanda Dobbins who co-hosts the Oscar show with me. But preferential balloting essentially means that just because something, if a film has more third place votes than another film that has first place votes,

it's plausible that it can creep up in the standingsings and it's a very complicated system that they've created. So sometimes it's not your first choice or your second choice. It's your third choice that becomes your vote. Oh, so I'm wrong. So it's not like, it's a little, it sounds a little like NBA MVP if third place was worth more than it should be or something. Yes, that's the case. I mean, things are, when things start getting knocked off, like if enough films don't have enough first place votes, they get knocked off and then you go up to the next one and up to the next one. It's complicated.

Keep an eye on the site. We'll explain it a little bit more clearly. But that does mean that you're right. There's going to be openings for movies like Bohemian Rhapsody that like three months ago, I never would have thought it would have had a chance to be nominated. Stars Born 2 to 1 still seems like the one for me. And I say that knowing that Roma could absolutely be the shape of water of this year, where it's just like, it's the movie for people

that make movies. Yeah, it is and it isn't though, because there's a lot of people who work in the movie business who aren't happy about what Netflix is doing. So you've got- Oh, you think there's a little backlash at Netflix? No question, because they're not held to the same standards that most people that work in the movie business are, because they don't have to deal with box office for the most part. They don't really have to release their metrics, though we have heard recently how much Bird Box was viewed recently. Phenomenal movie. I think that should have been- I don't agree with that. But it's a tricky thing because if you work for a traditional studio, you probably resent what Netflix gets to do and wish you could do it in some ways. You know, I think there's a lot of desire to not have to deal with like, oh, well, you know, your movie bombed at the box office, so you're a failure. Like, that's the narrative we pitch every Monday about a movie that doesn't do well. And they just never have to deal with that. Who knows how many people have seen Roma? Probably more than if they had put it

out in theaters with a studio. Yeah. But I'm not sure. Cuaron is considered a master. He's already won this award once before. People really want to reward him. Roma is beautiful and incredible. I don't think you've seen it yet. Have you seen it? I might've seen it. Okay. You might've seen it. It's a two and a half hour black and white foreign film. It's a tough sell for some people. Tough to watch while they're also doing emails. I'll tell you that much. Yeah. Well, that's the anxiety about it too, right? It's like, people use Netflix as like background noise, you know?

Bird box. Bird box. Yes. It's great. Or as a second screen thing. Pop your head up when you hear the weird sound. You can't do second screen with Romo. You have to look at it. Not just because you have to read the dialogue, but you have to see it. You have to do second screen with Romo. You have to look at it. Not just because you have to read the dialogue, but you have to see it.

You have to see what he composed. And it's a beautiful movie. I don't think everyone's going to love it. I think there's a lot of people who are just going to respond more emotionally to the traditional A Star Is Born thing. I like A Star Is Born at two to one. And I actually think it's crazy that it's not a prohibitive favorite.

And I like the fact that the Globes threw people off the scent. When we all know the Globes is insane and we should never take stock in the Globes ever. I wouldn't make a crazy bet on Bohemian Rhapsody or Green Book right now. I don't think that that's the way to go. There is some smart money probably in putting a little money, spreading a little money around on Black Panther and Black Klansman. Depending on how things go and the way those campaigns roll out in the next five or six weeks. One, there's a Spike Lee thing that's just like, Spike's never won. He's never won best director. That movie wasn't good. I liked that movie. That movie wasn't good enough to win best picture. Yeah. But that's, as you know, when we talk about on the rewatchables all the time,

it doesn't matter if it's like the right movie, you know, he didn't win for do the right thing or Malcolm X. Those were the ones he was supposed to win for. Martin Scorsese didn't win for Goodfellas. He won for The Departed. Like, this isn't how the Oscars work. But Black Klansman

was not The Departed. No, it's good though. It's good. And honestly, it was a hit and it was Spike's first hit in a while. And it's a movie

that says something about the moment and people want that. I actually thought Black Panther would have more of an awards moment as we got closer and closer just because it was such a significant movie that says something about the moment and people want that. I actually thought Black Panther would have more of an awards moment as we got closer and closer

just because it was such a significant movie and everybody really liked it. Two things working against it. One, it was released in February of 2018. So that's a long time ago. Two, it's a comic book movie that's still being held against it. There's no doubt that's being held against it.

Yeah, that makes sense. I like The Star is Born at two to one. I think that's probably the way to go. That's my recommendation right now. For six weeks, I've been saying I think A Star is Born will win to one. I think that's my recommendation right now. For six weeks, I've been saying, I think a Star is Born will win. I still think it will win. And the Rami Malek winning best actor,

I think is in play. But to me, it's like, I would just bet Gaga, Cooper, Star is Born. I did that before Sunday, man. And I got egg on my face. Yeah, but that's the Globes. You can't bet on the Globes. I know, I know.

And then Best Director, I don't know. That was the one where I thought Cooper would win and he had a chance to do the double-double. But now I just think that category is too loaded. It's really hard to say because what you're likely going to have, my guess in that category will be Spike, Cooper, McKay, Farrelly, and Cuaron.

It's pretty loaded. No women again. You've got Cuaron, who's already won, who's amazing got Cuaron who's already won who's amazing Cooper who made a great movie that everybody likes Spike who's never been awarded McKay this is his second consecutive nomination and Farrelly who you know like we said at the top like a lot of people like that movie especially a lot of older voters I think will like that movie tough category tough one to pick and you think Vice is probably too polarizing. I do. I do.

McKay is going to explain as when we talked to him in a second. Yeah. I mean, I really liked it. I've talked about it. I talked to Adam about it too. Um, I know why people didn't like it and I understand why. Uh,

I, I think that there's still strong sentiment for him in the industry. Like he's, he's, he's actually made, I don't know, six or seven films now and they're all good for different reasons. So we'll see.

Um, speaking of good for different reasons. So we'll see. Speaking of good for different reasons, the rewatchables with The Godfather. Yes. We finally did it this week. I don't know how you subscribe to this podcast and not the rewatchables since I'm almost always on the rewatchables. That's true.

The Godfather, we treated, it was almost like a game seven of an NBA finals. I ate differently. I slept differently the night before. I was really, it reminded me a little like Larry Bird in game 6 NBA finals. I ate differently. I slept differently the night before. I was really, a little like Larry Bird in game 686 finals. It was my first double rewatch

before a podcast. Yeah, I thought, you told me that to intimidate me. I did. Double rewatch and I read a book. I read an entire book

to prepare for the podcast. So that's how committed I was. But you know, when something is as good as The Godfather, you got to go all the way. I really felt like I brought my A game. Two hours, seven minutes.

We did it. I think the over under was two hours, 13 minutes. So we're actually under. I think if we wanted to filibuster you being weird about Frank Sinatra for another 10 minutes, we could have done that. History will show that not only was I not weird, I was in the right.

Johnny Fontaine should not have been Frank Sinatra. Okay. Whatever you say. He was like Frank Sinatra's uncle. He wasn't as successful. We still are not hearing each other about the point. You were mad that we thought Frank Sinatra wasn't cool, which is not something we ever said. No, no. You kind of insinuated it. If you love Frank Sinatra, you wouldn't have been okay with Johnny Fontaine. So what we learned was that you and Chris liked Frank Sinatra, but you didn't love him. I'm a huge fan.

All right. Well, we'll let the audience judge differently. Sean Fantasy, subscribe to The Big Picture and read you on the set this week with the Oscars odds. Yeah, thanks, Bill. You should reach out to Sal as a resource. Get his take. Well, it's funny. Last year, he had me on Against All Odds to give him odds takes,

but I'm like, he should be the one giving them to me. Yeah, that's true. Flip that around. All right. Thanks, Sean. Thanks, Bill. Before we get to Adam, Belvedere is produced in one of the world's longest running distilleries.

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Yeah, do it. Ready to crack it open. Remember to always drink delicious cocktail. I got one at the house. Yeah, do it. Ready to crack it open. Remember to always drink responsibly. All right, here he is, Adam McKay. All right, Adam McKay is here. We've circled this podcast really since, I don't know, 1978. We run into each other, we talk about it. And it's just never happened for some reason. But now it's happening. It's happening right now. The advice is out. You're really using me for your awards promotion.

I'm just in the circuit for you right now. That's it. I'm cranking you for hits and eyeballs. That's all this is about. We've known each other a while. I've used you as a resource for certain things over the years, kind of in the down low. Our daughters have played in soccer games against each other a while. I've used you as a resource for certain things over the years, kind of in the down low. Our daughters have played in soccer

games against each other. We've run into each other in weird places. Yes. But somehow never did a podcast, so here we are. I love it. You came in, you were looking at the posters, and we were talking 70s sports movies. The epic run of Fast Break and Fish That Saved Pittsburgh and One on One

and Inside Moves. Inside Moves, some really great Warriors footage back in the days when the Warriors were basically just the league's cocaine franchise, and that's about it. Now they're the signature franchise. Don't you see Robert Parrish? He's in there. He's in there.

Oh, yeah. Jamal Wilkes. Yeah. Also, I love that the guy who plays the star in Inside Moves. Harold Sylvester. Shows up, I'm impressed, shows up in Vision Quest as the teacher who is like hanging out with Matthew Modine being like, oh, he's playing hoops. Kind of gets in with Carla a little bit though. He does, it's a little awkward.

So that guy, he's in that. He's in Fast Break. He plays DC Daisy in Fast Break. Really? Oh, yeah. And he's attracted to Swish, who is a woman pretending to be a man. And it's one of the many reasons

Fast Break is the most politically incorrect sports movie of all time. It is just a PC apocalypse. And then he's also an officer and a gentleman. He had a nice little run. That's right. What's he do now? He's got to be around.

I don't know. I mean, he was like a six foot seven black guy. I don't know if there was a lot of roles for him in 1982. Keith David messed him up. He came along. Market correction. Yeah. We always talk about that on the Ringer podcast when there's market corrections for an actor versus an actor.

Like Tommy Lee Jones and Scott Glenn. Tommy Lee Jones is like, I'm just taking this. We always talk about that on the Ringer podcast when there's market corrections for an actor versus an actor. Like Tommy Lee Jones and Scott Glenn. Tommy Lee Jones is like, I'm just taking this. You're going to be over here. But Scott Glenn in Urban Cowboy. Scott Glenn is great. He was neck and neck with Tommy Lee for like four years there. Have you done Urban Cowboy? Is it rewatchable?

You know what's interesting? There's some domestic violence stuff in that movie. I just watched it. It's really good. It's messed up. There's some shocking domestic violence stuff where it was just the air where it's like, all right, they've worked it out.

But now it's like it would never fly now. Oh, Travolta hits her. Hits her. And then if you did that in a movie now, the audience is like, you're out. You're 100% right. Yeah, you're out. We can't come back from this.

And Travolta in one scene says, I have to go to my KKK meeting. And that's it. You don't see anything else about it, but it's kind of like thrown away. It's a tricky movie. It's a tricky movie. The Verdict has one like that too,

where Paul Newman, spoiler alert, finds out that his girlfriend had been working for the other side all along. And he like punches her in a bar. I remember that. And it's horrible. By the way, that bar, I used to hang out in that bar.

That's 7B in the East Village. Oh my God. And it was like right around the corner from my house. It's a beautiful bar and it's in like 10 movies. You could see it all the time. It is funny how the same locations get used for different things over and over again. Different sports bars,

sets. Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. I think at one point there's a little violence in that. I think Dick Van Dyke grabs the woman by the arm and she's like, you bruise me. You're hurting me. The 70s and 80s are violent. And

not politically correct. And I think over the last 10 years, things have shifted. But we talked about that when we've done rewatchables podcasts on different movies and even the comedy movies from even last decade. Like some of the Apatow movies, some of the language, some of the stuff, it just wouldn't fly anymore. You're so gay. Yeah. Well, I think you guys did Step Brothers. We did. There's one moment in there where, granted,

it's the villain, but he says the F word about gay people. You're right. We meant him to be an awful guy, but it jumps out of the movie whenever you hear it. Where do you see comedy in 2019 as

people are just more uptight than ever and i feel like i've asked this question on pods for the last couple years but now we're at a point you know i mean i you've had a your whole career came out of the comedy world now you're doing other stuff but part of the joy and the fun of comedy is pushing the envelope pushing the line kind of crossing over into a place you're not really supposed to go but you do it the right way But part of the joy and the fun of comedy is pushing the envelope, pushing the line, kind of crossing over into a place you're not really supposed to go, but you do it the right way. And if everyone's terrified to go near that line, where are we going to end up? Who is doing it?

I mean, my answer would be no one is doing it right now, right? I mean, it kind of seems like that. The risk reward is out of whack. John Mulaney, a little bit? I felt like Chappelle's two netflix specials he crossed some lines oh yeah and people are like oh my god did you hear what chapelle said but he's he's reached this point now just as a celebrity and an artist and everything where he got to pass a little bit it's tough though yeah there's not much out there right now comedy is is a really weird spot right now i mean like no one knows what's going on you look at the movies that are being put out and

everyone's super confused and like the kind of buddy bromance movies don't really work the you know it seemed like melissa mccarthy was going to be the one. And she's had a couple funny moments, but like, who is the comedy star right now? Kevin Hart. I think like, I can't even think who it is. Like Stiller doesn't do it anymore. I guess Rogan is still in the game a little bit.

Right. Yeah. I wonder to me, it's always cyclical. And last decade was just so strong. Oh, it was between all the stuff you were doing, all the Apatow stuff,

and it just was like kind of that whole frat pack thing. It's funny because we're doing the hangover on the rewatchable, so I was researching it. Okay. And that was, I think, 03. And Todd Phillips, the two movies he had done were Road Trip, and he had done that documentary about Frat House, about college kids.

Which I love. Which was really good. Which you know the story about that, right? had done were Road Trip, and he had done that documentary about Frat House, about college kids, which was really good. Which you know the story about that, right? That they had their Sundance Award taken away from them. Yeah. Because they faked several scenes in it. Yeah. He did it with a guy named Andrew Gerland, who we've worked with before. Oh, wow. In fact, the most underrated movie we ever did at Sanchez is a movie called The Virginity Hit. And it's actually- I didn't see that one. It's actually really good. They marketed it as like a losing your virginity kind of movie.

It was like one of those movies where it's like, oh, I got to lose my virginity. But it's way more like nuanced and interesting than that. It's really cool. No one saw it. But anyway, that's Todd Phillips' old partner and Frat House is incredible. I love that movie.

So when Hangover started, it feels like that was like the demarcation point. Because after that, there's just this run for the next eight, nine years. I have a theory on that. What is it? My theory is The Avid. That it was all about The Avid. What does that mean? That before that, you had to like hand cut your movies.

Like people forget, like in the mid nineties, everyone hand, they use the, what's it called? The chem, where you like. Oh yeah. And so every cut you did, you had to be like, okay, everyone in the room would have to get together and go, we're doing this cut. Are we sure?

Yes, let's do it. And then they would have to do the cut and they would have to get together and go, we're doing this cut. Are we sure? Yes, let's do it. And then they would have to do the cut and they would have to like bind it and they would have to save the, put the cut in like an envelope on a wall. So every single cut was so laborious. But then when the avid came along, it was like, boom, boom, you can do it all. You can, you can do 20 times the amount of work in one day. And with comedy, as you know, it's all about you can do 20 times the amount of work in one day and with comedy as you know it's all about timing so the second people started like playing movies in front of crowds and they had the avid you're like oh just shift this move this and all of a sudden the comedy started like rolling like they just got more that's really interesting yeah well that so

the stuff and all the people that have worked with you, you talked about it. You loved keeping the cameras rolling, add the take, forget about the thing we wrote, just do your own take. And so you couldn't have really done that as well in the 90s. Well, I mean, you could, you could keep rolling. You could roll out, but the trick was- It would just be harder to edit. Exactly. You'd have all these like loose ends that you would have to go through and be like, like physically you'd have to say like, hand me that,

that chunk of film over there. Let's look at it. So your editor would basically have to have a major cocaine problem just to have gotten through that. Which I think all the, which they do anyway. So it's fine. I heard a story.

We had a assistant editor on a couple of our movies, Melissa Bretherton, and she worked on Heaven's Gate. Is that what it was called? Oh, the famous flop the famous flap yeah yeah and there's a book about it michael chimino yeah and they were really struggling obviously and chimino walked in one day and he said take one frame out of every shot in the movie and they were like excuse me take one frame out of every shot so they had to go through the entire movie oh my god one frame and in the end it cut like you know one frame out of every shot. So they had to go through the entire movie and cut one frame. And in the end it cut like, you know, 45 seconds out of them. It made no difference at all.

So they had little envelopes everywhere with like the one frame in it all over the office. But yeah, that's my theory is the avid is kind of what- That's a really good theory. Yeah. I also think, I think it's a lot like the NBA with comedy, where sometimes it's just cyclical. Like right now in the NBA, we just have a lot of talent. For whatever reason, there's a lot of great guys right now, and that makes the league better, and it makes it more fun.

Yeah. And comedy sometimes is like that too, where you just have these classes that show up, and not just the people in front of the camera, but the people behind the camera too. And when you have that blend of that, you can just roll off this eight year run. Well, I also think there was a thing

where it was like the last moment of that kind of, you know, bro guy comedy. Like it was the last breath of it. And what was great about it was it was self-aware. Yeah. That we knew what we were doing. We knew that it was ridiculous. So you have the mix of like the avid, you have the mix of like movies blowing up because now you had DVDs and like the money was rolling. And then I think

you're right. I think like culturally, that was a last moment. I mean, watch Animal House now. I don't think you can. Like, I mean, you watch Animal House now, it is. It's got like five or six really, really tough moments. It's dicey. I mean, it's, and for a while, that was the number one comedy of all time. I mean, that was like huge. So not only was it the number one comedy of all time,

but that and Caddyshack were probably the two most quoted movies just in conversations. I remember just throwing Caddyshack quotes left the two most quoted movies just in conversations. I remember just throwing Caddyshack quotes left and right in columns. Stripes was another one, yeah. That was a weird era, though, because nudity was a character in comedies, too. Yep. And it would always be like, get some laughs, and you get a couple nude scenes in, and that's like my night out in 1981, you know?

Stripes has nudity for no reason at all. They're just throwing it in. Caddyshack too. Well, that was back too when you could have a movie that was like PG with nudity. Do you remember that? Oh yeah, Airplane. Yeah.

Airplane had the cabins going nuts and this girl just jumps in front of the camera and naked and is jumping up and down. No reason. Lack of avid makes Airplane even more amazing if you really look at it. Like how do you make that movie without an avid? It's weird that culturally

that one didn't last but some of the other ones did. Like I feel like Caddyshack has really lasted. I watched it with my I don't feel like Airplane has. No it hasn't. But I feel like when you were growing, we're around the same age, growing up there was like the Mount Rushmore and those were both on it. Definitive.

Yeah. Yeah. I saw it like six times in a movie theater. Tried to watch it with my daughters and like every joke didn't make sense. It was like Hari Krishna's telephone pitch. Like everything no longer made sense. And they were like, why is that? And then I just had to like fast forward to, you know, Mrs. Cleaver going, excuse me, I speak jive.

And then they were into it. And then the Kareem Abdul-Jabbar stuff held up pretty well. Well, and also the pilot, Peter Graves. Billy? The best. You ever seen a grown man naked? Now that guy would probably get in trouble now. It's like, oh, they're child molestation, this is a serious issue.

But back then that was hilarious. You like gladiator movies, Billy, they're child molestation, this serious issue. But back then, that was hilarious. You like gladiator movies, Billy? Yeah. Like when scraps rubs up and down your leg. I love that stuff. Yeah, that was a different era. And I think comedy represents

whatever is going on in the era. And I'll be really interested to see where it goes this era. Because going forward, you know, especially with the political situation we have and all that stuff. Like I'm just really curious, what are people going to tackle? Who are the stars going to be?

What are the stars going to want to tackle? Are they going to go after the politics at all? And all that stuff. I have no idea. I mean, the funniest thing I've seen in the last year wasn't written comedy. It was Donald Trump in that forest with Gavin Newsom and Jerry Brown explaining how you won't have forest fires if you sweep the forest. It's the single craziest thing I've ever seen in my entire life. Like if that happened in being there, you'd be like, guys, we got to get that out of there. Yeah, tone that back. Yeah. Nobody's going to believe this. And that actually happened.

Yeah. So I don't know, man. I don't know what comedy does. Well, it's been tough for SNL, right? Because, and I don't know where you're staying on all the Trump stuff, but I feel like I'm just kind of bored of it. It's like, all right, we get it out, Baldwin's Trump. Yeah. This is something that started when you were there, where they would have kind of the political thing would open the show, which they used to do the first 25 years of the show every

once in a while. But sometimes they would open the show with like weird stuff or cast member stuff. Or the Wolverines. Yeah, or just something weird, like whatever. But now it's like politics every time. And to start out with Trump and it's like politics every time and to start out with trump and it's like how do you parody something that feels already like a parody i have no idea it's tough one yeah yeah when i was there i like occasionally i would try and write openings

that were like a little bit serious yeah like i wrote one it was like for the season opener after the lewinsky scandal yeah And the entire scene was silent. And it was Hillary Clinton walking in the bedroom, Bill's watching TV, and he's like, hey. And that was the only word in the whole scene. She ignores him, sits in the bed. They start flipping through channels. Every third channel is Lewinsky.

Yeah. Flip, flip, flip. She turns it off, takes like a big heavy breath turns over turns off the light long beat Bill turns off his light long beat big heavy breath live from New York and Saturday night boy did it not work oh I was gonna say I don't remember that did they not never yeah yeah I convinced Lauren I was like this will be I don't remember that. Did they not run it? Never aired. Never aired. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah. I convinced Lorne. I was like, this will be amazing. This will be, it was like, nope.

Yeah. Cut immediately. That stuff, when did you, what was your first year there? I was 95 through, I think, 01. Because you go back now. I mean, that was such a great run for the show and all new cast, basically, and just some Hall of Famers in there and all that stuff. But it was also a really fun time for comedy

where you look at some of the stuff like those Smigel cartoons now, none of that stuff would run now. No way, no way. And especially like going after partners and going after the network and some of the stuff is shitty. And I was like, holy, even in the moment,

it was like, oh my God, I can't believe they're running that. I did an interview about an hour ago with a journalist talking about that. You whore, you with somebody else? With a journalist about that piece going after the network about the- Oh yeah, classic. It was a mediopoly

and it was like a schoolhouse rock piece about how the networks own the news so they're never gonna report against themselves. Yes. And I co-wrote it with Smigel and we had GE in there saying like, you know, they own NBC. They're never gonna like report against

building weapons or building stuff. And so we, God bless Lorne, he aired it. But I guess the next morning, the head of NBC, I can't remember who it was back then, Bob Wright, I think. Probably still Bob Wright, yeah. Called Lorne and was like, what the hell are you doing? And so a friend of mine in the control room called me and he goes, hey, McKay, they're pulling that piece,

that Mediopoly. Oh, for the reruns? Yeah, for the reruns. And I was like, what? He goes, yeah, they're trying not to let anyone know, but they're pulling it. And so I guess I can say it now, I leaked it. That's amazing.

I called David Korn, who was a journalist, still a journalist, big journalist, a local TV guy, like three people. And they put articles about it. And then five days later, I came into work and everyone was looking at me weird. And I was like, what's up? And they're like, Lauren wants to see you. Oh no. And I was like, really about what? Lauren wants to see you. And I went in the room and Lauren was like, did you leak that? The fact that we were cutting

the mediopoly piece, Adam. And I was like, at this moment, I was like, no. Yeah. Why do you think that? And, you know, NBC wants me to fire the person that did that. And I know it's you. And I was like, no. And to Lauren's credit, gave a little half wink and was like, don't do that again. And like, let me go out of the office

and that was it well you were you were too important to the show he wasn't gonna fire you well i don't know i mean if nbc i mean he needed me but nbc would have fired me yeah i i mean this shouldn't come as a surprise but i remember when i got suspended at for me as p.m for going after goodell uh two of the people who reached out to me were you and Smigel. Both super excited about it. This is great. We're so proud of you. We were, though.

We were genuinely proud of you. We're like, can we say it now on this? Can I say Goodell's the biggest moron creep ever? Well, he's second biggest. Who's first? I don't know. Trump? The oh no no the pope is fine the pope is well actually he's not um i don't know good that was pretty bad i feel like they all live in the same category like james dolan uh yeah uh who's the guy who owns the uh washington football team snyderder. Yeah. Like they're all in that same.

Jared Richardson, the Carolina owner. Oh, he's the best. Another good one. Oh, that statue. I want to buy that statue, by the way, of him outside that. They didn't take it down yet, right? No, he actually put it in the agreement when he sold the team. You can't remove this.

That is true. It's amazing that people haven't fucked with it though. You think at three in the morning. You have a weird statue out in front of your place. I mean, it's not as bad as the Richard. Which statue? The statue of you.

Shut up. People don't believe that. Statue of you holding up like, what would you hold up? A microphone and a Celtics jersey? Probably me and a typewriter just looking sad that my column's not done yet. Yeah, those are crazy times. The late 90s.

And you guys were loaded on the show, behind the scenes and on camera. And then everything led to that 2000. The election. We had so much fun. So much fodder. I still feel like that the political parody at that point was still fun because they didn't have the kind of uh destructive elements

it had the world has now yeah you didn't know in the early 2000s that it was like potentially the end of mankind's existence no but there was an innocence like i was watching dave which i think we're gonna do for the rewatchables with Kevin Kline. Does that hold up? Oh, yeah. And there's a real innocence to it where it's like, yeah, the presidency is this easy. And he can just come in and make everything better. And that's kind of how we felt about the presidency a little bit.

And now I don't think we do. Changing subjects for one second. Have you done Tinker, Taylor, Soldier, Spy as a rewatchable? No. It's amazing. When I give you a podcast of your rewatchables. Eight times I've watched that movie. That movie is so good.

All right, back to what we were talking about. Presidency was innocent. Yeah, I mean, we knew W. Bush was messed up. We knew there was trouble ahead. But you knew he was a good character for the show. Oh, hell yeah. 2000. Hell yeah. Texas guy. He could pretend he was dumb. It's like the perfect. Oh, but you didn't know he would like rock the foundations of like civilization. Like you weren't thinking that. By the end, of course they did. But in the beginning you didn't think of it. Yeah. No, it was a blast. Like the late nineties. I remember when we got there in 95, we would like gallivant around New York city.

We go down to like the East village and to be Pharaoh and myself and like a couple of the writers on a gas tire would join us and we just go be idiots. And at that time, everyone like hated SNL because it was coming off the- It was the Jay Moore season.

Exactly, yeah. And so we would go to bars and I remember like one bar 2a on avenue a and second street we were there and we're just being morons like i think we're lifting farrell up and pressing them against the ceiling or something and the bartender was like wish you guys were this funny on snl people hated the show but it was kind of great because no one cared who we were. Like no one,

they didn't really recognize Farrell. And so we were just like eating pierogies and having the best time shooting pool. And it was incredible. I remember, I remember the first episode of him when he did get off the shed. Oh yeah. And it was like one of those,

who's this guy? He was, he was just almost immediately a star and then he was in another sketch with meryl hemingway i talked when he was on i talked to him about this he had the the one where he's the weird husband who needs excuses to get off the phone yes and it was just so clear he was a star but then it just took it took america like it seemed like half the year to catch up with did i tell I tell you the story when he got hired? We all thought he was like the straight man. We thought like, because we were all hanging out.

We're all doing bits. We're Chicago guys. We're like improv. It was like Dave Koechner, Nancy Walsh, Tim Meadow. All of us are just doing bits constantly. And Farrell's really quiet and kind of normal. So in our head, we're like, oh, he must be like the Brad Hall of this cast. Right.

So we just didn't pay him any mind. Yeah. And we're like, so we go to the read-through, the very first read-through. And, of course, our sketch is like bomb. And then Farrell just rips it. Like nine sketches. The room is rocking. And we're like, oh, he's not the Brad.

By the way, God bless Brad Hall. But he's not the Brad Hall way god bless brad hall but he's not the brad hall of this cast yeah and then from that moment on it was like follow farrell it was incredible we did uh when we were at grantland we did like a saturday night live i forget maybe it was for the 40th was it the 40th it just was right yeah actually we did a bracket of the character we did a whole bunch of stuff and i always thought him and eddie were the were the two best just because i actually thought eddie was kind of overqualified to be on the show like he was the only person who's ever been on who was like too famous

almost to be on it and then pharaoh his ability to do anything and then phil hartman was my other one like just and then i think this decade i think k Kate McKinnon and Kristen Wiig are close. But those three, they could just literally do anything. I would throw Ackroyd in there. You forget how good he was. Drew Goddard, do you know him? Yeah. Cabin in the Woods.

He does a game where you do an SNL draft. Oh, wow. And you each have to draft. You have to have him on, by the way. He's an amazing guy. Yeah. And first pick, he says, every draft is either Farrell, Eddie Murphy. Has to be.

Those two. Yeah. Yeah. I was pretty high on Mike Myers. I thought Mike Myers was underrated on that show. He's now historically the underrated cast member. Yeah. Those first couple of years.

Oh my God. I was in college for those. And it was just so far out there that like fucking Spratt, the first brackets, it was like, what is this? What is happening? Or the kid in the bathtub.

Yeah. My name is Simon or whatever. Like everything he did, you were into, you were like, what's he up to? And also the music was incredible back then. Like, do you remember like public enemy being on there with flavor,

flavor with the witch hat and like, can't trust it. And like, I just remember that. I think that's the best cast. I think that like early nineties SNL. I agree with you. Yeah. Cause there was a window where I think Myers had joined, but Carvey hadn't left yet, but Hartman was still on, and Jane Hooks was there. And then there's one season where it's just loaded. And Carvey was a monster on that show.

He hosted when I was there, and I have never seen anyone rip a room like that guy. Like, he rocked the studio. Like, I think he had health issues when he left. He did. Yeah, I think that's what stopped him from being because that guy was incredible yeah he's amazing i think he's on if lauren would never do this but he gave a short list i think he would probably make it yeah out of the cast members

did you always want to be on snl or did he stumble into it yeah i always wanted to be on it i mean it was a show i grew up watching and- The Chicago lineage is pretty deep. A hundred percent. Well, I mean, really what happened to me was we were doing the upright citizens brigade. So we were doing shows in like coffee houses and weird theaters and it was going great. Like we definitely had a following, but we made no money and I was broke and they had auditions at second city. So I had to tell like UCB, I was like, guys, I have no money. Like I got to do this. And that was the only place in town that paid.

So I got in there and that's kind of what changed everything. And those guys just kept doing UCB. And the cool thing was by the time I got to SNL, like a year later, UCB moved there. So I was able to do improv with them. And, but yeah, that was it. I mean, that was always the thing. I mean, that was the first time in my life like my parents stopped bothering me.

Like, what's happening? What's going to happen with you? Yeah, yeah. That's funny. Yeah, I remember there's a few that you were on. You were the guy in the crowd. You had like kind of a stealth character. I did, I did.

I did it a couple times i'm trying to remember it was uh it was more than a cut wasn't it like four or five times toby mcguire there were a couple i can't remember the annoying guy in the audience yes basically that was it yeah and a couple times in sketches i was in a couple of my short films i did like an update piece one time like a little bit of performance. But by that time I was loving it. I was loving being a writer, starting directing, making short films. Like that was clearly where I was going. When did you click with Farrell?

What was the, was there a tipping point moment? He. Cause you kind of became his guy. Yeah. We all, uh, the Chicago group just always was doing bits like day-to-day in and out we're always doing a bit and farrell just started like hanging out in front of our doorway like hey guys what's up yeah and we're like hey what's up and then eventually he came into our office and started doing bits with us and we were like oh this guy's good yeah and later he told me he was like

i wanted to hang out with you guys because you're always doing bits. And he became one of the masters, of course. And from that point on, then it was like when I was writing a sketch or he was writing one, he'd be like, hey, McKay. But the first one I think we ever hit it on was Neil Diamond's Storytellers. Yes. I think that was the first one we ever wrote together. And it was so easy and breezy that we're like, let's keep doing this. He's not an overthinker. I'm not an over, like, you know, you want to correct it and make it work, but neither one of us are kind of hand wringers when it comes to stuff. So it was just really natural and comfortable. Did you become head writer there? You did, right?

I did my second year. I remember being in shock when they called me in like i was a staff writer for one year and they're like hey adam we'd like you to be head writer and i think my first response was no jesus i was having so much fun just being a staff writer and then a friend of mine was like no you you gotta say yes if you don't say yes you'll never get pay upgrade a little pay upgrade. A lot more hassle. Better office. Yep.

Better office. Got a bigger office. But a lot more hassle. Run some meetings. Run some meetings. Deal with some egos. All stuff you have to do when you make movies. Yeah.

Years later. Three secretaries. A helicopter. Yeah. I'm allowed to carry a gun in airports. That's great. Yeah. That sounds awesome. carry a gun in airports. That's great. Yeah. That sounds awesome.

It was good. It was good times. When did you know you wanted to start making movies? It was after four years. I was head writer and kind of had some ups and downs and was always kind of arguing with Lauren. I knew there was a problem when one time I said, hey, I want to talk to Lauren. I went in the room and there was another producer there.

And I was like, I just want to talk to Lauren. Oh, it's all right. He can stay. And we talked and talked. And then I left and I said to the producer, like, why were you there? And he's like, you know, Lauren's afraid you're going to yell at him.

Oh, man. By the way, I wasn't yelling. It was just being effusive. Like, we got to do this. Why don't we do this? And so i was getting kind of like itchy and like ready to move on what would you battle with him about just out of curiosity because at that point he was becoming the establishment yeah it was a lot of it was

sketch choices like after dress why are we doing this like come on this isn't funny what about this like a lot of it was that and then it would be during the week, I would try and institute kind of like frame, framing devices for the show. Like, hey, let's have a topical minute after, before update. It seems to work. Like we would just constantly be talking about stuff.

And he is very resistant to changing the infrastructure that had been built. Exactly. And by the way, now that I'm 50, he should have been. Because he created one of the great shows of all time. Right. And there's a- Seth Meyers talks about this.

He basically created this plane that could fly in any weather. Yeah. And just, you knew the plane could go up or go down and it worked. And 29 year olds are coming in going, you got to change it. So now I look back at it very differently. down and it worked. And 29 year olds are coming in and going, you got to change it. And so now I look back at it very differently. But at that time I thought like, we got to go crazy. And so eventually I was like, I'm going to quit. And so I called my manager and I was like, I think it's time to leave. And he goes, you know, if you're going to leave, make an unreasonable demand.

You might as well. Right. He goes, what would it take for you to stay? And I said, well, be a pay raise, no production meetings. I can name my own credit and I want to make short films. Let's try it. And then like hour later, it's like, yeah, he'll do it. And so for my last two years at SNL, I was the coordinator of falconry. That was my and get the fuck out of here i'm not kidding the coordinator of falconry they said name your own credit oh my god the coordinator of falconry and uh and i made short films which was amazing i learned how to direct yeah and i could still write sketches and i didn't have to go to any meetings but after two years of that i realized the entire place hated me because i was so you're telling me this and I was going to say like, this sounds bad politically for you.

Really bad. Yeah. Really bad. Like even dear friends were like, I hate you. So eventually I left, but yeah, I had a great time there. Six years. It was amazing. He's Lauren lets writers produce sketches put them together give notes to actors

like you get an incredible experience there it seems like part of the secret to his success is he realizes and I don't know what year

he realized this but it was probably somewhere in the late 90s early 2000s that he just got old and that he has to trust these really smart people to kind of tell him

what's funny and what's current and what's new. I think there's some of that. Yeah. Yeah. Because I find I'm in that situation a little bit with like what we've had at the Grayland and the Ringer. Like I'm fucking old.

Like we have a lot of young people that work for us and the stuff they care about, I wouldn't care about. And if it was a site that was all the stuff that a 49-year-old person cared about, it probably wouldn't be a good site. So you need that influx. And I think he, I don't know what year it was where he embraced that. He was pretty good with that. Like when we came out here to Los Angeles, our favorite executives were the ones who would say, I don't know comedy. I'll tell you story but you guys Do the comedy and like

Amy Pascal at Sony was like that She's like I don't know comedy guys but I'll tell you Stories yeah you know I'll talk to you about that But I know you guys are good and I will run Interference for you amazing run there But whenever it's the executive who's like I do know funny uh oh Dangerous be careful yeah

Lauren was pretty good with that. I got to say, I think the key to that show is the read-through. Wednesday is the read-through, and there's like 120 people just packed in there. And you go through every sketch, and a lot of it's based on the room laughing. And I think he reads that, and I think he does still have a good sense of humor i mean he still will laugh you can get him to laugh he does a snort laugh which is the best right the one time i really got him to laugh was i did a sketch called uh the hulk hogan talk show and it was this incredibly long intro that was all about hulk hogan and to the point where people in the room were like all

right we get it already and then it would cut to the show. And it was Will Ferrell going, Hulk Hogan is on vacation. I'm your guest host, Ted Beeman. And Lorne actually did a, and I was like, oh, that's good. And so to his credit, he was still laughing. He still enjoyed it. But yeah, he was good at kind of leaning on people like Tina became that for him and Seth Myers and certain people he trusts.

It seems like he, I mean, his, his ability to judge who's talented and who's creative is unassailable. I don't, I don't think anybody has a better shit detector. They even like him fighting for Conan to be a TV host. It's kind of incredible.

Amazing. I mean, can you imagine if that happened now? There's no fucking way that would work. I mean, list of talent evaluators in all time history. Yeah, if he was a sports GM, he would just- Jerry West.

Yeah, he'd be like Belichick crossed with Jerry West. Yeah, yeah. He's incredible. He'd crank it out. I asked him about that once. I was like, how do you do this? Because the people he's hiring are not, there's no one knocking on their door.

Yeah. No one was looking to hire me. No one wanted Will Ferrell. Kristen Wiig, none of us were being bothered by anyone. And he told me, the story always goes back to some fabulous scenario. I was in Spain with the villain name of supermodel intellectual. And we were driving across these fields and there were melons everywhere. As far as the eye could see, there were watermelons. And in the middle of it, there was a stand and

there was a man selling watermelons. And I said, I laughed and I said, why are you selling watermelons? They're all around us. And he pointed and he said, because of my eye. Wow. I don't know if that's true or not, but it was a good story. Yeah. Yeah. He appreciates people who are just good at stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I remember I went to visit my friend Jacoby in New York and he's like, we're going to go get soup at this place. And you're going to be freaked out by how great the cash register lady is. Cause he knows that I love stuff like this. I love when people are just great at their job, whether it's like a bartender or waiter. And he's like, I can't wait to show you this cash register lady.

So we go in and we buy the soups. And the line's like 12 deep. And it's just moving. And she's like bagging stuff. Like one hand's bagging stuff, the other thing's in. And I was like, this is the most incredible thing I've ever seen. I almost wanted to videotape it. And I was like, should I tape this? She's like, no, no, she'll get

freaked out. Like he'd already thought of that. And we watch her do it. She banged out like 12 customers in like 70 seconds or 80 seconds or something. I was like that, honestly, that you, you undersold how great that was. There's a maitre d' here in Los Angeles. Have you ever heard of him? His name's Dimitri and he works at the tower bar and it's incredible i mean he's like he's it's it's art just he knows everyone's name whatever's got mr mckay how are you i haven't seen him in four years whatever you have to go there once meet dimitri in fact tell him adam mckay said i have to meet him He's getting blown up on the podcast now. Yeah, he is. He's a patriot.

He's incredible. Where the show is now, my biggest complaint would be the celeb cameos and playing stuff for the audience reaction of like, oh my God, it's Ben Sterling. Oh, it's this guy. It's like, I just wish they, I don't understand who that's for. I just don't know what I would do.

I just always play the game of, all right, now I'm head writer. What would I do? Like in this time, I just don't know what I would do. Like tough, man. Well, that's, maybe that's why you do more of those celeb cameras. Exactly. Like stringing out the show. Yeah.

I think the video things open up stuff. And to his credit, like the Sandberg, when those guys came in, the Lonely Island guys. Yeah. And that was something like you never wanted to take the show out of the studio. You never want to take the audience. You always, you know, even if you're going to do the short stuff, but now this was like becoming one of the focal points of the show. Stuff that wasn't even.

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Since we're here, I want to give a quick plug to the Rewatchables, which I've mentioned a couple of times. We did The Godfather this week. We have Old School coming up. That is running next week. And we're going to be doing it every week throughout 2019. But The Godfather was really the godfather of Rewatchables podcast. No pun intended. So check that out as well. All right, back to Adam. What was your first movie that you, what was your, I can't remember.

First one I ever did at SNL was. No, no, the first after. Oh, Anchorman. So that was the first one. Oh yeah, yeah. You'd never done a movie before that. No, I'd done short films, but I'd never done. Yeah, but not like a major where you were in charge of everything.

Did you barely make it or did it go swimmingly or what happened? We had a blast. We laughed like morons the entire time. The only thing that was kind of the speed bump was the first test screening. We showed it to like everyone, like Katzenberg was there, all of DreamWorks,

everything, it was packed house, Westwood. The movie plays huge laughs after the screening. Everyone's coming up like Katzenberg. I don't think Spielberg was there yet, but, but they were all there shaking my hand going, oh my God, you have made one of the funniest movies. And they came out with the scores, you know, the score is zero to a hundred. And what you always at least want to get is like a 65 or a 70. Like that's kind of respectable. Anything higher is great. And the woman reads the scores. She's like, yeah, you got a 50 and everyone just froze. And then the head of marketing walked up to me, this woman, I think her name was Terry press. And she said, you idiots, you killed the dog. I was like, what do you mean?

You killed his dog. And I go, yeah, but it looks so fake. Who cares? You killed the dog. Farrell and I were like, oh, of course. So we went and did reshoots and Baxter came back. That's when he pops out of the river. And we went and tested it right to a 75, like 25 points. That's fucking incredible. You never heard that one? No. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was it.

That was it. Baxter. Terry pressed. I think if you had to cut out the hole where he dies and you lose the glass case of emotion, it's like devastating. That wouldn't happen. Yeah.

But we just did a lame when he blows the horn or whatever you see baxter come out of the river and then it led to my personal favorite scene in the entire movie which is baxter talking to the bear cato joe and i've known your family that is my single favorite moment in the entire movie because i can't believe we got away with it right and uh and that was it. Yeah. 50 to a 75. That was crazy. But when the movie came out, it did well, but you had no idea what was going to happen. We were happy.

Because it had this whole second life. It was a crazy movie. I mean, there were a lot of people that hated it. Yeah. And so it came out, I think it made like 90 million, 85. Damn. This is back in like 2002, we were plenty happy i think like the reviews uh were you know like 68 66 somewhere around there which once again we were delighted

and that was it but you didn't know it was going to become this iconic comedy oh no idea so we all moved on with our life yeah we got into Talladega nights. We were working on that. And enabled you to do all these other things. And two things happen. One was my wife was driving around on Halloween and she called me and she's like, honey, you should know I've seen seven people dressed as Ron Burgundy so far. I'm like, what are you talking about? She's like, listen to this. Ron Burgundy is like, Hey, Oh, you hear a voice in the distance, like stay classy. And I'm like, that's weird. And then the second thing was you, you actually wrote the column. You wrote a giant piece about, am I crazy? Or is this not the funniest movie ever?

I remember that. And it was eight or nine. I did awards from it. It was incredible. And you know, people know, so that helped. So I always say it was like playing on cable and then your column. You were the very first person ever to go, there's something here. Yeah. I remember I loved the rewatchability of it. And it had so many quotes. I was like, this is perfect for my NBA awards gimmick. That was it.

And I told my editor, and I think I had one editor who was like, what? You're using Anchorman quotes? And then the other one was like, yeah! And I was like, this is perfect. This is exactly where I want to be. But I honestly, because I had always done big-ass movies with the quotes. I had always done Godfather and Top Gun. But this was the first one that I kind of rolled the dice with.

I was like, I just feel, this was pre-Twitter too. Yeah, yeah. I was like, I just feel like there has to be more than me. Way earlier than 08. I'm going to say it was 08. Oh no, I think it was like 03, 04. Because the movie came out in like 02, 03, right? And you were the first person to like talk about it.

Because it seemed like it had, I don't know what channel it was on, but it was on for like two straight years. Yeah, I don't know if it was HBO or something. And then it was TBS or something, but it was on constantly, which is the best. It was just over, all right, here it is. We're going to find out the year, which was. I'm going to say 02. I can't even, I can't read on my phone

it came out of four you made so many movies you can't remember i was definitely wrong like four years after because it felt like it had a kick to it so man i think you were like two years after it was soon maybe maybe it was by the way I'm probably wrong because I don't even know the release date of my own movie. But the best was Step Brothers. Because Step Brothers, we did kind of get bombed with our reviews. Like, I think we got crappy reviews. Yeah. And we didn't care because we loved the movie and made a little bit of money.

And Farrell and I were just like, oh, well, that was a blast. And like six months later, I'm walking down a street in New York City and I hear two guys walk by me and one guy's going, have you seen this Step Brothers? No, no, you got to watch it. It's hilarious. And then like two hours later, I hear someone go, you know, this house is a fucking prison. And then like three hours later, I hear like, we are House of Learned Doctors. And I'm like, what is going on? And then that one took off. But that one really surprised us.

We didn't see that one coming. The Step Brothers. Oh, not at all. I got to say, I didn't realize it for like seven years. And I do this for a living and I'm supposed to know what people. But that one, it seemed like Kyle's generation and younger, that kind of became their movie. And they drove it. And then the adults were kind of like, oh, I'll give it a second whirl.

And then it just took off. That was always our favorite. Like Will and I, that was the one that made us laugh the hardest. Really? We love Anchorman. We love talent. We love them all. But as far as just raw, like I would go home after shooting that movie for the day and I would be like, my muscles would be sore from laughing.

Like that's all we did. All we didn't give a shit. We were just like the conversation I had with Will beforehand. I was like, you know, Will, we have like a fart joke in this. These are like grown men living with it. We're not going to get good reviews. And there's even a chance the box office isn't great. Are you okay with that?

And Farrell's like, yeah. And I was like, so am I. We just went ahead. Yeah. Well, wasn't it, it was you or him had the idea for the movie just from, you thought it'd be funny if two grown men were in bunk beds. Yeah, that was it. And that was the entire premise of the movie.

I was sitting around with Riley and Farrell. We had all these different ideas and I go, guys, I just keep thinking of you guys in bunk beds. I don't know what that is. And to their credit. There's something there. There's some meat on that bone. Yeah,

that one had a long tail. I can't remember if you told me this or Farrell did, but you feel like Anchorman 2 in like 2020, there's going to,

it's going to circle back and have some sort of kick to it. We love that movie. We really love that. The problem is it's been on epics for like three, four years. You need to it. We love that movie. We really love that. The problem is it's been on epics for like three, four years. You need to get on a different channel.

I think the middle 45, 50 minutes of that movie is as good as anything we've ever done. And the other problem is it's a sequel, you know, and just sequels. It's not as fresh. It doesn't crackle as much, but I have a couple of friends who really love it,

but we'll see. We'll see. You know, there's a couple of sequels really love it, but we'll see. We'll see. You know, there's a couple of sequels out there. I always thought Wayne's World 2 was pretty good. I thought like of the sequels, Austin Powers 2 is pretty good. I thought Austin Powers 2 is the best one of the three. Have you seen Wayne's World 2? Yeah. You know, first of all, my answer to this is always going to be yes, because this is what I do at one in the morning is i watch watch weird movies that i've already seen it's funny it's trapped in this pop culture

era that early 90s that's true like there's a really significant portion of it's like basically paired in the doors which had come out like two years earlier it's true but 30 years later you would have no idea what the fuck is going on with the Indian guy. And that this is like a whole Jim Morrison part. And then Jim Morrison's in it. And that all aside. My kids would be like, if I showed them my kids, they'd be like, what is going on? Forget everything you just said.

It's still funny. It's pretty good. Yeah, it is. It's pretty good. Well, you know why? Because Garth Algar was a comedic genius. Exactly. He has aged really nicely.

Really well. Yeah. He's been one of the good ones but that's it man as far as like comedy sequels that's a hard hard road to go but yeah we like anchorman too we really do did you know that paul rudd was gonna have the career he had because when he was on anchorman he hadn't really no i think he hadn't really kind of snowballed for him yet wet hot american summer I think was one of his. Clueless. Clueless.

We, the first time I ever met him, I just thought, oh, he's like some handsome guy actor. And then we had the Anchorman script. No one would make it. And I got a call out of nowhere. And it's like, hey, it's Paul Rudd. And I was like, I'd met him once. I was like, oh, hey, Paul, I'm reading this Anchorman script. And it's the best thing I've ever read.

Will you meet me for coffee? No one would make it. Everyone had said no. And I met Rudd for coffee. And he was like, this is the funniest thing I've ever read. And I was like, man, I'm sorry. No one will make it. He's like, well, if they ever do, please, please consider me. And then it actually, here's what's crazy. For that role, it came down to Rudd and Bob Odenkirk. With two after Fantana and Odenkirk was so funny he was killing us and it was one of those like almost coin flip things where we were like

we love Odenkirk but Rudd and then Rudd was like crazy funny and ultimately we felt like Fantana had to be a bit of a playboy and Rudd had that side of it. So we went with him, but God damn, like Odenkirk like smoked that audition. He was so funny. Did you get to a point with the comedies where you just knew who you're going to bring in? Was a certain type of person that would flourish in that whole kind of. We got good at kind of figuring out, like we love the dramatic actors who are also funny as shit. John C. Reilly being the best of all time.

And Catherine Han's another one. Like, just these people that you know have chops, but when you hang out with them, Richard Jenkins is a great one, too. Yeah. They just, there's no walls. They're not self-serious. They're like, and. Do you learn from the SNL, like, the people that come on and host? Because sometimes there'd be

great hosts that would be surprising right that's interesting I never thought of that yeah Julianne Moore was an amazing host Steve Buscemi was an incredible host yeah I remember Gwyneth Paltrow was really good were you there for that one uh the first time I was there I can't remember that show so well and I'm always in joy when somebody surprises me. Like Christina Aguilera was the host once, and she did a Kim Cattrall impersonation. Are you serious? And I was like, God, this is amazing.

But it's always the fun when the host surprises. It's the best. With some sort of, because usually. Oh, yeah. Ham was another one. I didn't realize Ham was going to be a good host when he did it. And he was really good. Oh, man, that guy's great.

Yeah. And you know, Ham and Adam Scott and all those guys are like friends together is that the third one of them too do they rud right rud scott what's like a weird midwest thing kansas city fucking weirdos it's a little gross yeah they talk about like the blues st louis blues all right let's move on it's disgusting disgusting. The other thing that happened in 2000, what was it? Funny or Die? It was 06, 07? I think you're right.

Yeah, yeah. And you and Farrell just decide, hey, this internet video thing seems like there's something here. We should get in on this. We didn't even have- You got in like seven years early. We didn't even have that thought. We were doing no interest in the internet and this guy approached our manager and was like hey i'm from silicon valley

my son loves stand-up uh let's do a comedy site we were like get out of get lost and uh then we watched his son stand up and he was actually funny, like really funny. And we were like, huh, that's interesting. And then our manager was like, look, they're going to give you the money. There's no loss. It's not your own money. Like you can just shoot sketches, put them up, see what happens. And then we kind of thought like, oh, this could be cool. Like Zach Galifianakis and Rudd and all our friends can do sketches. So I went over to Farrell's house when he was having like a birthday party for his son and I brought Pearl and I was like, hey, she'll say anything I say to her. Let's try this. And a friend of mine was like a masseuse who had a camera. And I was

like, hey, Drew, come by and shoot this. And we did it in like 35 minutes. And we were like, whatever. We weren't even laughing when we were doing it. We're like, that's great. And then Drew started cutting it. And he was like, guys, I think this is like the funniest thing I've ever seen. I'm like, what are you talking about? Send it to me. I was like, oh yeah, that's one of the funniest things I've ever seen. And, and they put it up and that was it. It was just immediate, like, you know, crashed the servers, you know, millions and millions of hits. It was nuts. How hard was it to try to be one of the people running a company like that

while you're also trying to do this whole movie career? Awful. It seemed like you were a little overwhelmed there for a couple of years. Six months, I think it was, where it was just me and Chris Henchey, who works for Sanchez. And the two of us were basically running the company.

There was no one else. And then eventually we hired people and got people in. How many people did you get up to? Man, I think at the peak, it was like 130, 140 people. It was huge, man. It was big, big company. We had a place like up North. We had like office in New York. I mean, it was gigantic. And then boom, just like that. It was like YouTube and Facebook just dried everything up. And so it's still around. It's still got a bunch of TV shows, still puts videos up. It's hanging in there, but man, the YouTube and Facebook just changed everything. Did you have a moment with the whole thing where you're like, man, I wish we had done

that differently and then this would have happened? Actually, no, because I don't think there was anything we could have done other than maybe sell quicker, but that was never kind of the vibe of it. The vibe of it was always like, let's have fun. Let's do cool stuff. And then by the time like Facebook and YouTube like cornered us and just like shriveled everyone up, like Buzzfeed, everyone just went away.

It's almost like Facebook, they're like villains almost. Oh, wait. It's almost like they're subverting democracy. It's almost like they're bad people. Wait a second. Oh God, I got rid of my Facebook page and it has been the best. I'm so close. You know, they own Instagram though. And I love Instagram. So it's like, do I have to get rid of Instagram? Yeah, but Facebook owns Instagram. Yeah, but it's not the amount of information that Facebook has. Instagram's just a picture and a comment. Like Facebook's got like your corporate LLC number. And they've sold everything.

Every move I've ever made on the internet, Facebook's probably sold to somebody. They could definitely clone you at this point. Yeah. I've noticed from the ads, because it's all the ads that are in my feed are all things that are clearly somebody's just studied all my behavior so be like hey buy this socket this soccer ball for your daughter

that has a chip in it put your credit card down it's like how do you know that i would even and meanwhile i'm looking at the soccer ball like oh that is pretty cool wait so i can track it to my computer all it ever advertises for me, any of those analytics is always like suit jackets. That's it. Suit jackets. Because I'm so big,

I can never find clothes that fit me. Yeah. So it was like big suit jackets. The other crazy thing that happened with you was you named your production company

Gary Sanchez Productions, which you think is this hilarious name. And then the guy in the Yankees named Gary Sanchez makes the Yankees. And he's pretty good for a little while. And he's in the playoffs every year. That was your production company.

What are the odds of that? The funny thing was our lawyer told us that. Like, hey, you guys should be careful. There could be a Gary Sanchez. We're like, what are you talking about? Come on, just do it. How did you come up with the name Gary? You just thought it was funny that it was Gary and Sanchezchez name that a Pharaoh was using at hotels. So I would call

him and be like, Gary Sanchez, please. And, and then we just started laughing. I'm like, where did you get the name? Gary Sanchez? He was like, I don't know. And I'm like, maybe that's the name of our company. And that was it. It's a great name for a company. And then we came up with the name of Yankee starting catcher starting catcher we came up with the whole idea of like creating the mythology around him that he was a place kicker for the vikings and the chiefs he's from paraguay oh yeah i would have believed that and he was the last barefoot kicker exactly and i didn't did i ever tell you this i did an interview with a hollywood reporter and this was right after the company opened and they're like well so who is gary sanchez i'm like well gary is a kicker in the nfl for 14 years he was with the buccaneers and And this was right after the company opened. And they're like, well, so who is Gary Sanchez?

I'm like, well, Gary is a kicker in the NFL for 14 years. He was with the Buccaneers and the Vikings, made a lot of money. But now he lives in Paraguay. He's sort of an entrepreneur, does a lot of different things. Oh, interesting. And I thought the guy knew I was kidding. And then the next day, there's a big article on Hollywood reporter, Gary Sanchez from Paraguay. And we have to call him and tell him like, that's not true. And for like two years, Hollywood reporter like hated us. Yeah. That is like a Cardinal sin. It was bad. Yeah. That's

still funny though. It was pretty good. So that was in print in the magazine. Oh yeah. And we actually hired an actor to play Gary Sanchez. So there's like pictures of us with him. And yeah, it went pretty far. When did you know you wanted to make a drama? You know, I was never thinking drama. I was always just thinking- Or like a more serious movie. Different. Because I was chasing a superhero movie for a while, this book called The Boys by Garth Innes. That's kind of a rated R superhero thing. And I really wanted to make that and I couldn't get it made. And so I think we had come off like Anchorman 2 and my agent was like, you know, you've had a

pretty good run, man. You haven't really missed on anything. You could probably try something crazy right now. What would you want to do? And I had read The Big Short a year before. And I was like, I read this book and wondered, why isn't anyone making it? And I was like, well, funny you should ask. And it turned out the script was stalled. And they were happy to have me come in. And I think they were kind of humoring me a little bit. It was over at Paramount.

But then I wrote that script that basically was the movie. And they were like, it's kind of cool. But still, even then, they were like, well, we don't know about casting. And then we sent it around in one week. We got yeses from like Christian Bale, Ryan Gosling, Brad Pitt. And they were like, I guess we're making it. So it was never seeking out anything that was, and even the big short has a lot of funny stuff in it. Yeah. But it was just so cool that my favorite thing about it was that when you would tour around with the movie, you actually got to talk about stuff. And like, I would debate

economists and I spoke at the Brookings Institute and like, I was like, this is cool. Like, so yeah, it was really fun. And then hearing people like who really didn't know how the banking crisis worked, go, you know, come up to me and say, Hey, that was amazing. I didn't know about that. And, and also it was so much more relaxed than comedies too. It was like, felt very European. We were in like New Orleans. We would end our days an hour early and just be like, I think that is sufficient.

Like everything was just very laid back. So yeah, I loved it. And- Did you feel weird about directing somebody like Christian Bale, who's one of the three or four best actors we have? He's one of the guys I was most nervous about. I had no problem with that.

How do you give somebody like that notes? I mean, Pitt, Ryan Gosling, Carell, no problem. They're all guys you would hang out. But Bale, I was like, what do I do? And so I just talked to him beforehand. I said, look, I like to yell notes out where I'll have a microphone. Is that okay with you? And he's like, yeah. And so I just checked with him on everything. I just said, is it okay if after four or five takes, I come over and talk to you here? And he was like, yeah. And then by the

end of the movie, we were like, this guy's the greatest guy ever. And then I finally got up the nerve to do a bit with him. And it was like our second or third last day. There's this big moment where Michael Burry, the character he plays, writes on a chalkboard plus 1,290% for his fun. Like everyone's been wrong. He was the only one who was right. He lost everything plus 1,290%.

And he walks away and it's dark in the office. It's a big, big moment. So we did it like five times and it was perfect. He was amazing. And I walked up to him and I was like, you know, it's good Christian, but I had one, ah, forget it. And of course he bites on it. He goes, no, no, what? I'm like, what if he just kind of turned the camera and just kissed your fingers and did a peace sign like peace out and there was like a long pause and christian's like um i don't know if that's really what my character would do and i was like i'm fucking with you and he's like oh and then from that point on all he did was bits with me it turned out he loved it it. Oh, that's hilarious. And on Vice, too. Like, he just bits all day long, joking around.

He's like a goofball. Yeah. Yeah, I think we feel like the famous actors aren't normal people. Yeah. But they're all normal people. They all have to pee and take dumps and eat food. And it's not like they're alien species. No, he's actually a sweetheart.

Like, crazy about his family, goofball. I think the only class of actor you got to worry about a little bit is like that 68 year old male actor. I've been the older male actors can be tough. Like the Gene Hackman types, Tommy Lee Jones, like they scare the crap out of me. The only guy that didn't scare me was Richard Jenkins, which is part of the reason we cast him. And also he's awesome, but he's the only one who's not like a little crazier. Dustin Hoffman's a nice guy too.

He's apparently. So you just won't hire anybody over 65. It sounds like a good plan. Yeah. They might go at you. I'm trying to think if it's okay to say this. You're not directly equalalizer 3. You don't want to mess with Denzel. Adam McKay will never hire the elderly. Yeah, I'm good with that.

I'm good with that. You can put that out into the public. No, the sad thing is older male actors are the funniest when you get the right actor, like a Fred Willard. I can totally see how they would be completely intimidating though. Like how do you tell Al Pacino what to do in a scene at this point? Apparently he's a good guy too. I've heard he's cool. Will you please do- Oh, I had him on a podcast. Oh, did you really?

I don't think he knew it was happening for about 20 minutes. I think he thought we were like, he was like, once he realized what it was, I could see the light bulb go off and then he started telling stories. But I don't think he totally got it. I've heard he's- I should have explained it better. I've heard he's cool. His stories were amazing.

Will you please do- By the way, I've told you this before. The greatest single thing you've ever done in your entire career is the Charles Oakley podcast. Oh, thank you. You know that, right? Well, it was all Oakley. In your bones, you know that. It was 1% me and 99% Oakley.

He was just waiting for the right podcast proxy. Forget the percentages. And then I love like two months after that, I hear that like he slapped a guy at a blackjack table or something. I was like, please do everything you can. Will you do one week or like a month of podcasts with people that scare me?

That would be, I mean, the best thing with Oakley was. You got to be a little scared, right? Well, but I think I had written about him once and he liked it. So I felt like I was in with him. But you still never know. And you never know, like, well, one question. Like what happens if Oakley doesn't like something and now he's just stink eyeing me? What do I do?

Because I had these two guys in the room. I was in the other room. Was it right here in this room? I was in the other room. No, it was in Cleveland. Who would be the month of people that scare you? You got to do four of them. I'm with you.

I think older people, the older set in a way actors. Tommy Lee Jones would be rough. Yeah. Well, I had, so I had Kurt Russell, who was great. Yeah. And he came in, it was like 10 in the morning. He's wearing, I had, so I had Kurt Russell, who was great. Yeah. And he came in, it was like 10 in the morning. He's wearing a leather jacket. It looked like Kurt Russell.

Just had a Marlboro red outside. And I was like, oh, this could be, but he was great. But yeah, the older guys, they probably look at all this stuff. Like, who the fuck are you? Let me book it. You won't know who's going to walk in the room. Just the week of you booking. Honest to God, the four scariest people. I met Vinnie

Jones. Is that his name? The soccer player? He was scary. He was not cool. It was like, I don't mean to say not cool, Vinnie. I'm sorry. You're awesome. You're amazing. It was a little scary. Let me book a month for you, people that will scare Bill Simmons. Gucci Mane was on, who's

had some issues in his life. He loved us. Are you serious yeah by the end of it he wanted to take me to a strip place in atlanta can't remember the name of it but yeah he was oh my god i can usually win those people over that's good so how long did you work on uh vice how many years was this how many years of your life vice was definitely deep end it was the research for it was crazy. I made the incredibly dumb decision not to just buy a book. Right.

So- Was there like the perfect Dick Cheney book though? There kind of wasn't in my opinion. No, let me be clear. There's amazing books about Dick Cheney, but they're all about chunks of his life or they focus on one aspect. And I wanted to do like the sweep because i felt like it's you know at that point i was basically thinking like the history book's about to close

on dick cheney yeah like this is it we're done the books have been written he's like i saw some tmz video of him laughing in his suv with like literally with tm and his daughter. The Trump thing's helped him too. Trump thing. It just feels like it's moved on. And I was just thinking like, wow, really? We're going to move on from that? Like that's just gone? Yeah.

And so, yeah, I just dug into it and read every book that was out there, every article. And then we hired our own journalist who went around and interviewed people. That was the best and got tons of like good insights. So that tidbit, like in the beginning of the movie, he basically, 9-11's happening and he makes it seem like the president

had given the order to shoot down an aircraft. That's true. So how do you get that tidbit? Because I don't know if I had known that before. So you read everything and then you, there was actually congressional testimony. Oh.

So Bush and Cheney testified together. And what you find is their story doesn't make sense, that the timing isn't right on it. And that he's saying, oh yeah, at 5.52, I did this, like, wait a minute. No, no, no, no. And then everything you read, it was like, oh, they're lying. He clearly made the call.

Now, don't get me wrong. It's a crazy day. Like, you know, I'm going to guess stuff like that might happen. But, you know, I'm not sure he's wrong. Well, yeah, he's wrong. You should go through the presence of that. It seems like a pretty big thing to skip. So we just triangulated like crazy because Cheney really is that secretive.

So we had to read everything, talk to everyone. I was struck that, watching the movie, that how little I knew about him, this person who was super impactful last decade, but even like a happy accident, I guess, or unhappy accident for some people, just how he ascended in the 70s, which mainly because of the Nixon White House. Crazy. The Nixon White House craters, everybody's losing their job left and right.

And he goes from being like a fucking intern to a chief of staff in like three years. Any Republican was gold. I actually didn't put it in the movie, but they asked him to join the campaign to reelect Richard Nixon, which is where everyone got busted out of. And for some reason he said, no, he got very busted out of. And for some reason, he said,

no, he got very lucky on that. And Rumsfeld had been exiled. And that's how those two guys survived. It's actually true that the day that Ford was being sworn in, Cheney and Rumsfeld were driving from the airport. So while Ford was saying our long national nightmare is over, Cheney and Rumsfeld were driving to the White House. Yeah. Yeah. It's a crazy story because he's just, I had the same thing as you. I just didn't know that much about him. I knew like he shot a guy in the face. I knew that they called him Darth Vader. I knew he pulled some strings and I knew Valerie Plame story and kind of that he was involved in the run-up to Iraq. And when I looked into it, I was just amazed like how calculated it

all was. Like he knew exactly what he was doing and how brilliant he was. I mean, it's kind of amazing. 12 years after getting two DUIs, the guy's chief of staff in the White House. Right. Yeah. Well, and also you make this point, at some point you flash a quote, I forget what the exact wording is, but it's basically like the people who are quiet. Those are the ones you got to watch out for. And I was thinking like, that is a move. And I'm old enough now that I've dealt with different type of bosses and different people going back to ESPN or whatever. But the quiet people who you never kind of know what they're thinking, those are always like the dangerous ones.

Oh, yeah. thinking those are always like the dangerous ones oh yeah they put they keep it close to the vest and they might be killing you in private or doing whatever you'll never know it's definitely like if you're playing the game the move is to be quiet belichick belichick says fucking nothing nothing uh there's an interview with douglas fife worked with Cheney, and he actually said, like, when you talk to Cheney in the beginning, your voice is about this octave. And by the end, your voice just keeps going up and up and up because he gives you nothing. You're trying to make up for the lost energy. Yeah, yeah. You're like filling in for the gap.

And he said, I start here, and by the end, I'm kind of up here going, so anyway, we're going to do that. And like, this is one of his guys saying this. And he has whole game. I mean, Lynn Chaney actually said, if you want to understand my husband, you have to know one thing. He's a fisherman. So that's his whole game is like patience. Wait at the bend of the river. If it ain't happening, that's okay.

Like he's fine with like pulling back and waiting a year like uh and just detail detail detail yeah he's a incredible figure man i mean it's he really could argue he changed america and the world as much as anyone in the last 30 40 years it's nuts well and then you think uh you're doing a movie about this guy who you clearly probably don't like that much i would say it's safe to say. Well, I have to. But you're trying to make him a. A human being.

A human being, which, you know, my role of the movie is if you're making a movie about anybody, I'm going to start rooting for them at some point during the movie. Because, you know, I just watched Escape at Dannemora. Which I think is great. Yeah, it's good. It really is. And it's long, but it's worth it. And these were horrible guys.

And by the end of it, I'm like, no, no, don't stay in the cabin. You gotta get out. I'm like rooting for them to escape. They're horrible. They would have gone and killed people

if they had escaped. But it's just something about the movies, TV, they suck you in. And it's the same thing with Vice. Like that half of them, Dick Cheney. Paul Thomas, Paul Thomas Anderson came to a screening and it's the same thing with vice like that half of them dick cheney paul paul thomas anderson came to a screening and he's like why do you have me rooting for cheney and

rumsfeld to destroy democracy right during the four years like i'm kind of cheering them on and like yeah well i mean it was the biggest criticism for the movie right oh yeah he was too sympathetic some people thought that we humanized him too much. My feeling was that if you don't humanize him, it's a waste of time. Well, then you turn him into like Hannibal Lecter. Exactly.

You might as well put a fucking metal mask on him and wheel him into 9-11 meetings. Which I would watch that movie as well, by the way. But also what we found was that he was a regular schmo when he was in Wyoming.

His brother and sister, the brother's like a plumber. And everyone in Casper, we interviewed people said, whoever Lynn Vincent, Lynn Chaney would have chosen as her husband would have been president or vice president. I mean, in a weird way, the story is kind of hers. It really is. But she is in the speech in the beginning. She's like, I've chosen you. She's a badass. You're letting me down. My friend of mine got called by her like about 20 years ago about something. He said, I have never been yelled at by another grownup like I was just yelled at by Lynn Chaney. Like, she's tough, man.

And whip smart. So, yeah, the fact that he started as a regular guy. Like, the kind of movie I use for the comparison was Sid and Nancy. Yeah. That I felt like, you know, Sid was just a goofball. That's interesting. Yeah, a goofball bass player. eye like the the kind of movie i used for the comparison was sid and nancy yeah that i felt like you know sid was just a that's interesting yeah goofball bass player and he met nancy and he loved her but she happened to be a junkie so if you're gonna date a junkie let's get into it was was bail like on the set he's just doing this on his does he stay like that 20 24 hours a day or can he snap in and out of it he's pretty cool cool with it. And so is Amy and Sam Rockwell.

They all kind of do it. What they do is they keep the voice, they keep the physicality, but you can talk to them as themselves. So he'd never say, call me Dick Cheney. So he'd be like, you know, how you doing, Adam? Pretty good, yeah. The kids just dropped him off at school.

So he would talk to you like Christian Bale. And this is actors are fucking weird like it's to be able to do that is really strange i actually i really respect it like i don't understand how anybody can do that i might have to i might ask people to call me the character like i'm probably such a bad actor yeah i would have to be like you got to call me the yeah i have to stay in it yeah yeah so and he put on the weight, he did all that stuff. It's crazy, it's crazy. He really, when I heard he was playing Dick Cheney,

I was like, that's ridiculous. Like, I can't see it. And then you watch the movie, it's like, oh, yeah. First day that it all clicked, you know, we had this Academy Award winning makeup guy, Greg Canham, and we worked it and worked it and worked it. He was putting on the weight, he was working on the character. First day that it clicked where he's in the suit, the makeup's right. He's got all the moves and the psychology figured out. He goes, hey, Adam,

check it out. I figured out the walk. And he walks down the hallway and he does the Cheney walk. And I, no exaggeration, I get goosebumps on my arms. And I was just like, you're not, I jokingly, I was like, you're not playing him. You're summoning him. Dick Cheney is now in the room. And the whole movie was like that. He would walk by you and it felt like Dick Cheney. It was, it was eerie. It was crazy. So I like getting people after the movie comes out. Cause now you've, you've done the circuit already. I feel like you've come out of it. The movie's come out. Yeah, I've got no canned stories anymore. Yeah, yeah.

Out of the feedback, has there been one thing that surprised you? Oh, yeah. What is it? Well, you know. I mean, we got crazy divisive responses to this movie. But you weren't expecting that, though? We were expecting it. We knew it was coming.

We knew the right wing was going to come after us. We knew some of the kind of professional journalist class would be like, hey, get out of our backyard. We knew that was coming, but I didn't expect it to be that strong on both sides. I mean, there are reviews that are like, this is the greatest movie ever. And there are reviews literally like,

this is the worst movie I've ever seen. I've never experienced it that strong before. Usually like, you know, hey, we love it. It's okay. A couple bad ones, but this one is either, I love this. This is the most, like we just won some film festival yesterday, the Capri Film Festival in the midst of me being told that we got another terrible review. Like, so the whole process has kind of been like this where it's like horrible review, great review, email from a friend I respect saying that's the most amazing thing I've ever heard to turn on the radio. Guy hates it.

And we did expect divisiveness, but I didn't know it'd be at this level. At the same time, you kind of like that, though. I kind of love it, to be honest. I mean, that's like Anchorman 2. You love that people either were all in or they were mad about it, to be honest. I mean, that was like Anchorman 2. You love that people either were all in or they were mad about it and that was it. We did a show in Chicago called Pinata Full of Bees at Second City that among Second City heads,

they all know about it. And it was a very unusual show. We broke a lot of their forms and there were people that loved it and hated it. And it was the first show, Second City Mainstage in like 20 or 30 years that got no local theater award nominations, none. Like all the people in town who saw it were like, no. But of all the things I did in Chicago, that's the one people still talk about and stuff. So

it feels really appropriate. And of course the Europeans love it. Like we've been showing it in the UK and they go crazy for it. But no, think it's good so long as it keeps motoring the only fear you have is that it just kind of goes away but it's not it's still out there there's still these i have no for award season i have no feel for what's going to happen none none at all you did pretty well at the globes right yeah we got like a ton of nominations like six and then we got a bunch for critics choice like Choice, like eight, I think. Yeah, it's the wild card of this Oscars. It is a wild card.

I mean, I would think at the least, man, you gotta acknowledge these crazy performances. I mean, Christian and Amy Adams are like next, next, next level. And that score is pretty incredible. And the makeup too. So I would hope at least that would get junk, but you know, awards you never know.

And it is such a crazy, fiery, you know, cleaver splitting kind of movie. We'll see what happens. But yeah, it's been a bucking bronco. I was laughing with a friend the other day. I was like, I don't think, I think the last time I was on a bucking bronco like this was Step Brothers, but I didn't care.

Right. And you know, so yeah, it's been interesting. Well, you know, so, yeah, it's been interesting. Well, you also, you created The Ringer's favorite new show of 2017. You were involved in the whole thing with that. You and Jesse Armstrong. God, I love that show, Succession. And you guys, you guys, once again, I'm going to give you credit. You were about a couple of days earlier than the rest of the world.

We were like four weeks earlier. Yeah. We, that was a good moment for our site because we kind of started to trust, like if we really like something, just go all in on it. It was cool. And if people don't follow, that's okay.

But we just felt like this show's really good. Something's going to happen. I mean, I was watching each episode as it came in. Yeah. So I was loving it because I compare it to like early Neil LaBute. Like it's got this hard edge, but it's brilliantly funny. Like, or, you know, it's Jesse Armstrong writing. I can say that.

But, and so right away, I loved it. But then when it got to that third and fourth episode, I was like, oh, we're on a rocket ship at this point. And that's when my wife started walking in when I would look at it to give it notes. And she started watching it behind me going, oh my God. The third episode is the key. And I think that was one of the reasons the reviewers got thrown off. Yeah. Because they'll watch the first two.

It also didn't have, my biggest issue when I watched the pilot, I was like, oh man, I just wish, what's the Jeremy Strong character's name? Kendall. I was like, man man i just wish there was a more famous actor for kendall i just wish that was a better part and then by episode seven i'm like i fucking love jeremy strong so we that was part of the key to the show we knew that jeremy strong is one of the best actors on the planet like we were confident in that so that scene where he goes in the bathroom and freaks out is like one of my favorite scenes. There are a couple of scenes in there when he confronts his dad in the dining room too.

I was like, I think that's one of the best scenes I've ever shot. Like, oh, how many did you direct? Just the pilot. Just the pilot, which is the funnest. Cause you get to cast it. The funnest was the look. The funnest was the bachelor party. Oh no, no, not the funnest episode.

I'm just saying the funnest of the hour of my life. Oh bachelor party is the best but to make it the pilot you get to cast yeah yeah that's great look i mean it was it was fantastic bachelor party oh my god well the uh what was the one uh second to last they're all good the run out the one where he's trying to run to the board meeting is that episode five i think that it was yeah yeah, it was the fourth one. Oh my God. That was good. Yeah. That was when it really became clear. It was like,

Oh, okay. So, so this is not going where I thought it was going to go. The bachelor party was when I fell in love. God bless. I was like, this show's fucking weird and I love it.

And I don't know where it's going. I think about him swallowing the, can I say it? The common. Yeah. Yeah. She spat it in my mouth. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how dirty it was. That thing about him swallowing the, can I say it? The cum? Yeah. Yeah. She spat it in my mouth. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know how dirty I feel this. It was hot. It was hot. It was hot. It was hot. And then eventually by the end, even he knows it wasn't. Yeah.

Well, you also, did you, were you involved in casting the sister? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Cause that's the key role of the show. Everything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We were a Francine the show. Everything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

We were a Francine Maisler. We went through every character. It was incredible. She's fantastic. Amazing. Amazing. What happens with her career wise? So she.

Could she be like Julianne Moore? Oh, I think she's heavy duty. I think that's a major. She's going to be like an A-list actress, right? Oh yeah. Yeah. And she is, and kind of was, everyone knew that's what she was going to be yeah and francine masler was like you have to cast her and then she came in and read where it's

like this is over with my favorite is um who plays roman what's his name oh colkin colkin colkin wasn't supposed to read for that role we asked him to read for like kendall stupidly yeah and he showed up in new york and he just went on tape, which usually when you go on tape, what you're hoping for is come on in and read for us. Yeah. And we watched it. We were like,

that's it. That's wrong. And then we just called and we were like, you got it. And like, no one gets anything off of tape. And then he showed up and it was like, we were all so jacked on ourselves at that point.

It was like, we knew that off of tape. And he was like, perfect. Like every was like, perfect. Like every single moment. Did you have the first season sketched out or multiple seasons? First season. But then Jesse kind of is thinking longer arcs.

I've read the first three outlines for the second season. And I just got the first two scripts. So I'm kind of getting into that with notes. Wait, that doesn't sound like it's coming out in 2019 then. Oh, it is. They're moving. Okay. Oh yeah, it is. They're moving. Okay. Oh, yeah.

It is. They're going to roll. We're banking on it to come out. Oh, no. That is without a doubt. The ringer needs it. We need- Without a doubt.

We have a couple of shows we're counting on this year. Content. They're going to be writing while they're shooting. I mean, it's going to roll right into the thing. It gets going in like a month, I think. This is a good year for us because we have Thrones. We got Billions, we got Big Little Lies, we got Succession.

Man, that's a lot. I mean, it's like we like the show so we can just go all in. Is this the last? Thrones we're treating like it's the NBA playoffs of mankind. Are we allowed to talk NBA at all? Fuck yeah, let's do it. How much more time do you have?

Oh, alright. Ah. We went way over. One quick thing. Do you want to just come back and talk NBA in a couple months? Give me the one quick thing though. Jonathan Isaac for Orlando. That's your one thing? Jonathan Isaac?

I'm laying it down right here. You're laying it down? I'm laying it down right here. You're laying it down. I'm laying it down. I think 18 points a game. Wow. Seven assists, nine rebounds. In like three years? Yeah, yeah.

Two, three years. Percolating there. Percolating there. That's your big NBA comment. That's my big, and well, no, I have a lot of NBA comments. Who's your favorite team? I'm a weird guy

because I grew up a self-explanatory hardcore celtics fan and uh but then and then i moved to new york for a long time and the knicks overtook me but the knicks kind of it's like falling in love with like a terrible girlfriend who's like a crack addict and then i moved out here and now I'm like, I don't care. I just watch every team. I'm a junkie. Who do your kids root for?

They like the Warriors and the Clippers a little bit. But my favorite team right now, Clippers are so sad. I like the Bucs right now. I'm really enjoying it. The Bucs have been fun. Yeah, there's something going on there that's interesting. I also, am I crazy? I think the Suns are a player away.

They're probably going to eat that player in the ladder next year when they're like third yeah they've been picking at the top forever really nice stuff going on there that i kind of like uh and ayton kind of woke up lately too had a little bit games i don't know if i trust it even if he's kind of mediocre like c plus you never did a sports movie though bringing it full circle i was dying to i wanted to do they did that uh semi-pro and i just didn't think that was the one and uh i will i will all right i want to look i look forward to that uh so glad we got to uh this is great good luck uh good luck in awards season i know you mostly do commercials because you guys guys, I guess, get paid for them. Can I do one real quick? Yeah. Do one. Yeah. Burger King, only $1.99 for 10 nugget pack. That's right. Burger King, $1.99 with a drink for 99 cents at your local Burger King. Amazing. That's classy. Let me do that. I appreciate that. Yeah. I would have given you a real read to do. Adam, good luck with the

movie. Thank you. Thank you so much, man. Great to see you. All right. Thanks to ZipRecruiter. Don't forget to go to ziprecruiter.com slash BS. Thanks to Adam McKay. Thanks to Sean Fantasy. Thanks to the ringer.com ringer podcast network. Thanks to New York Times Crossword.

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