The Bill Simmons Podcast - The Perfect Luka Team, Panic-Trade Candidates, Chicago’s Ceiling, and Crypto Myths With Haralabos Voulgaris

Episode Date: November 24, 2021

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Haralabos Voulgaris to discuss the Clippers’ loss to the Mavericks, what an ideal team built around Luka Doncic would look like, the 12-6 Bulls, early Eastern Conference contenders, panic-trade teams, NBA rule change ideas, cryptocurrency, and more. Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Haralabos Voulgaris Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Coming up, Bob Valgaris, our old friend from Podcast Pass. He's been working for the Dallas Mavericks for the last couple of years. If you don't know his history, it's amazing. He was a professional gambler who eventually in the 2000s became really the best basketball gambler on the planet.

And parlayed that into all kinds of stuff, including podcast appearances on my old podcast. Then when we came to The Ringer, created The Ringer, he came on the BS pod a few times and started working for Dallas behind the scenes. Now he's out. He's out of basketball, but still watching basketball and enjoying it. And we're going to talk to him

in one second. First, our friends taping this. It is 10 o'clock Pacific time on a Wednesday. Bob Bulgaris is here. He hasn't been on for a while. He, going back to the Grantland days, he started popping on there. You were known as the professional gambler,

data guy, hot take Twitter artist, but the takes weren't even that hot sometimes. Sometimes they were perfectly cooked. And then all of a sudden you started working for the Mavericks. I don't think you've been on for four years, Bob. Is that possible?

Yeah, I think the summer before I officially started working for the Mavericks, I think we did a pre-agency pod and that was the last one. Yeah. All right. So you went last night, Mavericks Clippers. I don't want to rehash all the what have we. Maybe we can get into that later in the pod. You went on Pablo Torre's pod.

You kind of broke down all the basics of what it was like to work for a professional team. I want to get that near the end. I want to talk about topical basketball stuff first. You went to Mavs Clippers last night. You were in a situation trying to build a team around Luka with some limitations and a big Porzingis contract kind of hogging up a lot of the cap and trying to work on the fringes, guys who can shoot corner threes two-way guys who you can find on kind of cheaper value type of things

how do you build around Luca? What do you think you guys did wrong the last two years? What do you think they should do? If you were still advising them what would be the number one move you would make? I think in some cases people think it's super easy to build around him

because he's a, you know, he's such a transcendent talent. And I think that's definitely true, but there are some challenges because you need to have guys who can defend at a very, very high level. Um,

because he's not, he's not, he's not an awful defender, but he's definitely gets hunted on defense a little bit. And so, um, you need guys who can defend. You also need guys, in my opinion,

who are happy playing a role of defending and doing the gritty work. If you look at the Harden Rockets, you had a bunch of guys who were happy being spoon-fed by Harden. Harden had the ball for almost the entire game on offense. And then guys are put in positions to succeed. I mean, there's lots of different ways to do it. I don't necessarily know that my theory on the way is necessarily the best way.

Like a term is heliocentrism, where you want him to have the ball. You want everyone to kind of operate around his orbit. That seems to be the way that maximizes the overall skill in a laboratory of the team. Now, are guys happy to do that? In my experience, not every player is happy with that, which makes sense. Guys want to get their own stats. They want to get paid. They want to feel involved. They might not try as hard on defense if they're not getting as many touches on offense. So it's challenging. I think you just have to find players who can be switchable on D, players who can play the passing lanes, who are good at

helping and recovering, mobile defenders, and you certainly need guys who are able to hit and make three-point shots and space the floor. It's interesting. LeBron was in a little bit of the same situation over the course of his career, and you would see a lot of guys play with him who didn't necessarily succeed with them like they did with their previous team. Or even in some cases, like you're seeing with the wizards right now, the next team I was watching,

I watched the Dallas clips game last night. I should have gone. I decided not to go. I have some regrets, but, um, you watch the end. They're basically just double teaming Luca near the end.

And they're perfectly fine going for on the clips are perfectly fine having a four on three situation as long as Luca gives up the ball yeah I don't think that was necessarily I mean both teams did that and I don't think it was necessarily sharp defense I mean it it's not that hard I mean first of all Luca when he's doubled is fantastic at fine at making the right pass early in the game sometimes he sometimes he'll try to do a fancier cross-court pass that got picked off. That happened a few times earlier in the game. But when it comes down to winning time,

and he's dialed in and he's not looking for highlights or he's not feeling the game out, it's a very simple pass to the four, whoever's setting the screen, who has a very simple pass to the corner, and it's just a wide-open three. I didn't look at the data but i'm fairly certain that was the highest number of corner threes and maps that attempted in the game this year um it seemed like

it was open the whole game yeah i mean anytime you put two on the ball like that and you just need to have someone capable in the short roll who can get the ball and make the pass make the easy pass i think they went through a different, they went through a different variation of guys. I know Dodo, Dorian Finney-Smith was the screen setter and the guy making the pass once or twice. Max, he did it a couple times. They tried it with like Willie Colley-Stein early in the game

and that wasn't working. You have to have a guy who's able to make that short roll pass. Like Draymond's obviously the best in the world at that or one of the best in the world at that, at making the short roll pass. Like Draymond's obviously the best in the world at that or one of the best in the world at that, at making the short roll pass. Yeah, the thing, and this is why when they traded Seth Curry, which you're banking on Richardson being the Miami guy

and not the Philly guy as you're making a trade like that. And I know you were involved in that trade. I was involved. In the input of whether it was a good idea. Yeah, I mean, it wasn't my trade. I mean, I didn't suggest it. The deal was already agreed of whether it was a good idea. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't my trade. I mean, I wasn't, I didn't suggest it. It was the deal was already agreed upon when it was told, but I liked Josh Richardson a lot. I think they knew that, um,

we hadn't decided or they had decided people had decided to make Seth available. I mean, the thing about you get that, I get that a lot on social media to be like, Oh my God, if only we had Seth Curry and look, I love Seth Curry. I was the main reason the team signed him to begin with um but it's just challenging because if you have kp on d and you have luca on d and now you have tim hardaway jr on d and you have seth curry on d those are four guys who are not necessarily positive one-on-one defenders i mean right anyone who watched game seven of the 76ers Hawks series, I think people forgot this, but Kevin Herter

went off in that game specifically because he was targeting Curry. I mean, that was I mean, Seth's an amazing three point shooter. He's like probably has his basketball IQ. I think is I don't think people really realize how good his back, but that's what the Mavericks Miss Morris is basketball IQ

on the court of putting people in the right spots and his ability and creation to like his ability if all of the last 10 seconds of a play his ability to get his own shot yeah offensively he's he's he's almost I mean it sounds ridiculous to say but he's almost without

peer because he stretches the floor so well he's super hyper efficient on offense but defensively it's challenging here because he stretches the floor so well. He's super hyper-efficient on offense. But defensively, it's challenging to have someone like that on the court in the playoff series unless you have... He's the perfect fit in Philadelphia because they had Simmons, they had Embiid.

But even in that case, I challenge people to go back and watch Game 7. Not that you want to make one game sample of it, but that whole series, the Hawks made a plan to target him. To go after, yeah. Yeah, and it's just very challenging. So now you've got three guys like that.

I mean, good luck with that. The goal is not to have a great regular season team. The goal is to increase your chances to win the playoffs. And sometimes you have to take big swings and take chances. That being said, looking back now, like once he was made available, you probably could have got more for him. That seems to be pretty apparent.

Yeah. Well, the other thing, if you're just starting backwards, let's say Luca is the only guy in the team and you're almost picking it like a fantasy team and you could just add people. Seth Curry is actually a fun fit for him. As long as now you're at,

you have to add other pieces that would take care of the, the defense issue, having those two guys. But the fact that Porzingis is on that team too, now it gets complicated. Well, I mean, you do need a defensive anchor for sure. And I think with Porzingis, it was never really about him being, I don't think historically he was a terrible defender. That's not true at all. It's just, he had some mobility issues due to the injuries that caused him to be a little bit of a target on defense. I mean, teams... The book on the Mavericks where you go small versus this team

offensively, I mean, the Celtics did it a bunch. And it is very tough for this team to defend in space. And so if he improves his mobility, which it seems like he has and he plays better, then now maybe things are a little bit different. But certainly the last two years, it was a challenge. What do we make of him as an asset or a non-asset, whatever you want to call it,

because he's making $31 million a year. You look at his stats, just look at his stats. This is seven straight years now where he's just 20-8 every game. Now, we've had guys like that. There were guys famously in the 90s and the 2000s where it was like, you know, Sharif Abdur-Rahim. Oh, man, 20-8 must be good.

And it's like, well, actually, he might not be a winning player. Antoine Walker was like that a little bit for Boston. There are guys that can get the stats, but they're not necessarily winning players. On the other hand, his rim protection is good. He, you know, as a stretch five on paper,

makes sense. And if he was making $15 million a year, I think teams would think he was an asset, right? Yeah, I mean, I'm not here to... I think he's a fine player. I think, like, there's... If you look at players that are making max... I mean, there's not here to... I think he's a fine player. I think if you look at players that are making... I mean, there's max contracts and there's max... The way the salary cap is structured,

it's unfair to compare them because you have LeBron James' max contract, Chris Atpersingh's max contract. Okay, obviously, those two players are not equivalent. And it's tough because there is no gap in between max and the mid level. Like he's never, he's never going to get a mid-level contract. He's always going to, he's always going to,

he's not going to max the Mavericks. Some other teams probably going to pay on the max. So it just becomes a, to me, it's less about that. It's more about how you like what the fit is and how you can build around the edges. Like I think if he's the max guy on your team and he's the only max guy, then you have to build around him. I don't know that that's necessarily a great squad

because in my opinion, you need to have your max guys need to be ball handling, creating ones, or guys who are dominant, like Embiid or that type of thing. So it's tricky for sure. So what is the right fit for him? Like if I, like there's probably 10 teams.

For KP. No, for KP, there's probably 10 teams that have who, for Luka or for KP? No, for KP. There's probably 10 teams that have kicked the tires on him in a real way, right? Is this a, is this guy more of an asset if he's not an afterthought and an offense? What if, could we build something around him? What does that look like? Is that even possible?

I think if you look at the number of what teams have built around a big, I mean, there just aren't any. This is like, in this day and age, best players are all, all have the guards. So it's less, it's less,

it's just like my thing wasn't necessarily anything specific or my, I don't think there's anything specific related towards him. It's just the position itself and the way the game is, is skewed towards offense. Right. There's very few teams. Like you can make the argument that Utah with Gobert is an example, but that's...

And Gobert is a dominant player. Everyone will say, oh, he gets played off the floor in the playoff series. Well, what big doesn't get played off the floor in the playoff series? I mean, it happens a lot. I mean, Gobert... I don't even think it's necessarily accurate that he got played off the floor in a playoff series last year. I mean, Jokic

is really the exception. And obviously, there's no... Jokic is a point floor in a playoff series last year. I mean, Jokic is really the exception. And obviously, Jokic is a point guard in a center's body. Yeah, he's Larry Bird, basically. It's not even fair to call him a center. Yeah. I mean, there just isn't. Even Carl Anthony Towns, amazing offensive player, big. Can you build a winning team around him?

I don't know. It remains to be seen. It's just really tricky. It's every dominant player in the game for the last however many years has been a ball hand like wing or guard. I was going to bring up Towns with the KP thing because I think he's, you would think he's like the rich man's KP in a lot of ways, right?

He's a better shooter. But same kind of principle of like a stretch five. I don't know what that is. The one thing Towns has going for him is he is just a better low post player, even though most of his shots are coming from three. But yeah, it's tricky for sure.

I mean, it's very tricky. I mean, the whole point of being a center, like if you're a stretch center, stretch five is can you punish teams that switch versus you and historically that hasn't been the case uh with a lot of these guys and so it's just a question of can you improve upon that is there skills you can do is there things he's poor thing this is that a bit of a disadvantage just because he's got his center of gravity where he doesn't have like he's it's hard it's hard for him to dribble down players are swiping the ball from him like

the celtics put smart on him all the time. Yes. But I think we played the Pelicans one of the first games a few years ago and they put Drew Holiday on him and we thought it was a mismatch in the late aspect of the game. It's just tough. But that being

said, he works hard. He wants to improve his game. He wants to get better. And I think it's... The other thing about him is he does whatever you ask him to do. He's not a diva in that regard. He didn't complain at all during the playoffs, even if maybe he was a little bit unhappy. So I don't know. I'm a fan of his personally. I just think it makes it challenging to cap yourself out for a player like that, trade assets.

You better make sure that you can fill out the rest of the roster around him. And we'll see if they... I mean, they've got a decent team this year. They're definitely in the mix in the West. Yeah, you figure after you got Golden State and Phoenix and then Utah, there's a drop-off. And they have a chance to get that fourth spot

just by sheer power of Luka and the fact that some other teams have had some bad injury luck. Like the Denver thing, giving Porter that extension, I think he had played like 120 games total. He had slipped almost out of the lottery because his back was so scary to teams. And it was a pretty small sample size. They didn't have to go all in.

They felt like they needed to. And now he's hurt and he's checking out back specialists. If I was a Denver fan, I would be going nuts. Like his extension hasn't even kicked in yet. And again, I think he's at like

120 career games, 20 playoff games. Oh my God. Yeah, but you're a fickle guy. If I was a Denver fan, I would be happy that they built this team out of like nothing i mean they got yokich in the second round right yeah yeah like you've got to be you've got to be they've done it's like it's the nitpickiest of takes to be upset about

this contract i think i mean i really do like i just because i don't i just wouldn't have done it what is the point of these extensions a year before you have to actually do them? I don't know. They're trying to win. But why? Give me one more full season. I want to see you play healthy. I don't know if your back is great.

No, the job is fucking hard and to nitpick to that extent. I mean, I don't know. I'm with you, I guess. I have a hard time disparaging that. And then you look at every other thing they've done has been just like strokes of brilliance in terms of like finding Jokic, Murray,

you know, building around the edges, like being competitive. Well, that's a team that really had a window to win the, like kind of a sneaky window to actually grab a final spot last year, the Murray thing, submarine them. Because you think like all the teams that could have snuck in there and Phoenix, who I think is better this year than they were last year and the Murray thing submarine them because you think like all the teams that could have snuck in there and Phoenix,

who I think is better this year than they were last year, but Phoenix grabbed this opportunity. But then you think, all right, if Davis just doesn't get hurt in that Laker sun series, yeah. What do they even get by the Lakers? Yeah.

Two things are true. Phoenix suns are a very good team and they got extremely lucky last year. They might've got to the finals anyways, but the fact that like their path to the finals was made easier. And so, yeah, you're a hundred percent right. Who knows what happens if, if Murray's healthy last year was a weird year.

I mean, the last two years were weird years because of COVID. I think people still, I mean, there was that, if you look at the, I mean, how many playoff games did the two,

two teams that made the finals of previous year win last year? They won zero, right? I mean, Miami got swept. If you look at the, I mean, how many playoff games did the two teams that made the finals the previous year win last year? They won zero, right? I mean, Miami got swept. Did Miami get swept? Yeah. Miami got swept and the Lakers won like one or two games or whatever like that versus Phoenix.

Well, then you think like even Dallas, who I think could have been a sleeper in the right situation in two years in a row, you're just drawing, you're drawing a poker hand with two threes. Yeah. Well, that was our not worst lineup, our matchup, the Cl situation. And two years in a row, you're just drawing, you're drawing a poker hand with two threes. Yeah. Well, that was our not worst lineup, our matchup,

the Clippers. And it's funny, we made a flow chart of like what we needed to happen in the last few games of the regular season in order to avoid the Clippers.

And I think they did something very similar in order to match up with us. They wanted to play us. Yeah. So they, you know, I think. I forget the guy who they posted up 22 times

in the last game. Was that Daniel somebody? Daniel O'Toro? Was it Orton or something? Yeah, something like that. He won the Mark Madsen Award for the game 82. I had both games on. I had our game and their game.

We needed to do whatever they did. If they won, we needed to win. I remember I was texting you. You were going nuts. You were like, this might work out. Then 10 minutes later, this isn't going to work out. Yeah, and this guy was just getting far too many post-ups. Yeah, we needed the Lakers to win or to lose.

I forget what it was. But yeah, we had a whole flow chart. I was trying to explain it to the powers that be. And they were just like, yeah, I don't understand what this means. I'm like, just follow the chart. Like, if then. You know what if then means were just like, yeah, I don't understand what this means. I'm like, just follow the chart. Like, if then. You know what if then means? And they're like, I don't know. It was pretty funny.

Yeah, because I had over for Luka and Dallas this year. I think it was like 48. And it was a combination of I didn't like their division. But also... Easiest division in the NBA, arguably. But you think like from a luck standpoint, bad luck the last two years. So maybe just with the matching up with Kawhi and the Clippers,

like just a nightmare for them. And you think like, all right, if a couple breaks go, maybe there's a trade deadline move. But more importantly, if you really think this guy is special, which I think I do, and I think you do too, there is a path with younger, super duper duper stars. Their third season in the league, fourth season,

fifth season, somewhere in there where they just overachieve and all of a sudden they're in the conference finals or the finals. And you're like, wow, Oh my God, he, he dragged them here.

And I think that's still in play. Yeah. I think we would have had a really tough time with Phoenix. Um, just because they're so surgical in their late game execution. Yep. Um, and they had a bunch of guys they could throw at Luke. I don't know. They all, they would have done in their late game execution. Yep. And they had a bunch of guys they could throw at Luka.

I don't know if they all... They would have done a great job guarding him. But, you know, they had Bridges. They had Crowder. You know, Johnson could probably guard him in a pinch. What about this year, though? What about this year? I think the same thing.

Who do I like in the West group? No, I'm saying like with... Could they overachieve? I think this year thing. Who do I like in the West group? No, I'm saying like with, with could they overachieve? I think this year is tough. Yeah, because Golden State's, I think better, obviously. Phoenix is, I think, better than last year. And then you have the Utah piece

and then the wild card of Davis and LeBron and whoever they're playing with. Yeah, I don't even know. I think it's, I think it's interesting to even have the Lakers. Like if this wasn't LA and it wasn't LeBron, we'd be even talking about the Lakers. I mean, what have we seen from this team

through 19 games? Hold this thought. That was our next segment because you and I both hate watching the Lakers. You never gave me the shits. I don't like to give you the rundown. I know we're talking. Sorry, you can jump the gun there.

But I wish Luka... Again, I'm nitpicking. This the gun there. Yeah. But I wish Luca this is, again, I'm nitpicking. This is my second nitpick of the pod. I just wish he was in awesome shape. I really I think at this point in his career, I get it. He's young. He's feeling it out. I don't know what he's doing. You know, he's probably a young guy having a great time.

But I think if you talk to some of the great players in the history of the league and you ask like, hey, what would be your one big regret about like the first six years of your career? I think all of them, with very few exceptions, would be like, man, I wish I'd been in better shape. Like it's something Bird talks about.

I think LeBron, you even think about like the difference in his body from 08 to 09. LeBron was always in top physical shape. No, but when he added the muscle. He didn't have the spot he had to fill out. That's what happens when you come in the league at 18 or 19. Yeah, I mean, look, I'm glad you went there.

To me, it's unrealized potential. I don't know. It's you. You don't want to go through life with any regrets. And I think, I mean, there's lots of arguments. People are like, okay, well, he needs to be thick because he needs to punish people. He needs to back people down. But there's a difference between that. And there's a difference between your face is red because you are out of breath four minutes into the second half of the game and you're unable to make rotations. I mean, the load... You could make the argument that he has a... He has problems. I mean, he's not like Steph Curry in the sense where he's running around as much.

You know, Curry's just covering tons of territory. But the mental focus that's required to have the ball the entire game on offense and then to get hunted on D... I mean, people don't realize, like, the number of ways teams hunt him. It's not just one-on-one matchups attacking him as the defender,

but it's also whoever he's guarding is crashing the glass because they want him to have to box out. There's just so many things that kind of factor into it. And yeah, he's not in shape. That's just... He might not be in awful shape, but

he's definitely not in top physical shape. But he'll get there. I mean, he's young that he's not, I mean, now he might not be in awful shape, but he's definitely not in top physical shape. But he'll get there. I mean, he's young. He's- Well, here's the thing. It's about maximizing whatever your potential is as a player. I think the athlete moving outside of basketball, Brady is the guy out of anyone

who's maximized his potential the most. Like he's done, he's actually made himself more agile. He's learned how to be faster, quicker. He's changed his throwing mechanics. Tiger Woods did the same thing. I think LeBron in the NBA is somebody that has maximized whatever his career potential was by being not only a physical freak, but somebody who really put in the time year after year. And I would love to see Luka do that at some point. I mean, LeBron spending, like I've read the articles, listened to the podcast with his trainer.

He's got like the machines in his house. He spent a million dollars on his body a year. It is, yeah, it is. The thing that I think that's interesting, and this is like the last little bit I'll say about this stuff, is part of it is to be that young and to be the face of the franchise and have the franchise basically given to you. I mean,

trading away four fifths of starting lineup, building around this guy, billboards everywhere. You know, you're the ringer guys are playing Holly Luca. Like, it's always like this kid who's descended from above to save the franchise there is a little bit of that and there's a lot of people being i don't want to use the word

terrified but just like walking around worried like who is holding him accountable for that right it's not the teammates because it's the team is basically built around him um and it's just kind of like i don't know very early on the first year i was there i remember we were the catering that would come after practice and after games they would have like this giant canister of sweet tea and lemon and sweet lemonade and i remember just looking and seeing like okay this dude's filling up like his water bottle with like sweet teas making like arnold palmer Right. And I was like, I didn't say anything to anyone, but I was just like,

that doesn't seem like a good idea. I mean, liquid, I don't know a lot about I'm not an expert on... It's a good idea if you want diabetes. Yeah, but it's just like it doesn't seem like... It just didn't seem... But yeah, they eventually got it squared away and I'm sure he's got people looking after his diet

etc. But every year it seems like he comes in, he tries to play himself into shape. Yeah. I'm going to play myself into shape is never a great idea. But when you're putting up 30, 10 and 10 in your second year, it's hard to say, hey, here's some ways you can improve. Yeah. Here's the other thing. What exactly, what issue do you have with him?

That's not you specifically, but people that are like, okay, all the stuff we've said is true not maybe not in the top physical condition maybe yeah what are we seeing that is like how is that impacting it's pretty i mean the playoff series what could he i mean he got hit in the neck uh and then he got elbowed in the neck or the whatever the soul above higher shoulder. Yeah. I mean, he performed at a ridiculous level. Yep. There's really, the year before, same deal.

So it's easy to say, oh, not in great shape, but it's hard to say, okay, what are you not doing good? And I think maybe that's where an attention to detail on some defensive stuff is. Maybe you could find some defensive flaws. Offensively, it's pretty hard to say. I mean, there's people who say, oh, he settles for bad shots late in the games, blah, blah, blah. I don't know. I'm not necessarily all the way there on that. I just, yeah, I think it would be

it'll be amazing to see once this guy gets into top shape what the ceiling is for him because this guy's basically the limit, not to sound too cliched, but it's true. Yeah, you think he can get in 15% better shape at some point in his career and his three-point shooting's going to get better

and you think of just those two things only and he's going to be a monster. All right, we're going to take a break and come back and talk about some trade possibilities. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer.

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Redefine possible with Business Platinum. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms and conditions apply. Visit amex.ca slash business platinum. All right, I want to talk about the rest of the league. You're Chicago Bulls. Now that you don't work for the Mavs anymore, you have now adopted the Chicago Bulls. You love

this team. You love defensive guards. You love shooting. You've come around on DeRozan. I came around on DeRozan a while back, though. I want to say that. I was not a DeRozan guy when he played for the Raptors. But once he went to the Spurs, he kind of learned a little

bit. I wouldn't say learned. The thing about him is he works on his craft of his game so much that that is to me his awe-inspiring. His little hop step, long two, side step two that he does. He sometimes has multiple pump fakes to get guys in the air. He's always been a very good foul drawer and high free throw attempt guy. When he played for the Spurs, they basically went to a five-out scheme with him

when Aldridge was out. And then a little bit with Pirtle was in the dunker spot. But he was hyper-efficient when you surround him with three shooters or more. Now, that's not necessarily the case in Chicago. They don't have a lot of shooting. They don't take a lot of frees. They're doing things a little bit differently

than the average team is, but they're having success because they are absolutely destructive forces in the backcourt defensively with those two guys. I love it. So much fun to watch. Yeah, it was weird. I really like Patrick Williams.

He gets hurt and it kind of unleashes this five-man unit that they have that when you think Vucic isn't even really shooting well yet. He hasn't played in the last week or so. He didn't play the two games I went to in LA. Yeah, no, they're doing it with... I mean, it's really just Caruso, Lonzo Ball, or the heads of the snake, both of them.

And it's causing all kinds of... Like, you can get away with having no... They have no rim protection right now all kinds of like you can get away with having no they have no rim protection right now yeah and you can get away it seems as though you can get away with having no rim protection if you can't get past the perimeter line it depends which is kind of what's happening plus they're turning people over in the backcourt um caruso is i mean i've been on the caruso bandwagon for a while i tried love Caruso. I tried to get him. I tried to get him the year he was a free agent three years ago. Could not convince people that he was even an NBA basketball player. One of the guys in our front office was like...

I think him, if he didn't look like Jim Carrey from The Cable Guy when he plays that pickup basketball game, I think he would be taken a lot more seriously. But you know, he wears the headband, he's got the shorts pulled out, he's got the tights below. But he is, without a doubt, one of the best perimeter defenders and on-ball defenders

in the league, I think. And he's just such a great scheme defender, too. You know who's great for him is Twitter. The guys like the Steve Jones guys who cut the clips out of possessions. And you just see Caruso not only shutting down people one-on-one, unlike when

everyone's the stand-around and one guy's trying to do something plays. He doesn't just shut them down. He demolishes them and they lose their soul for 10 seconds. The other thing he's really good at is he's guarding his guy. Someone comes around, he swipes at the guy off the ball, creates a little bit of really good at is he's guarding his guy. Someone comes around, he swipes at the guy off the ball,

creates a little bit of havoc there, recovers back on the guy he's defending. So, I mean, there's some guys who think good defense and you get that a lot with, you'll see that a lot with players. Some guys think good defense, I'm going to just lock my guy up

and he's never going anywhere. I'm never taking my off my guy. And meanwhile, his guy's like not doing anything and then someone's coming right through your lane, you're not causing any impact there. and so caruso does a really good job of preventing his guy helping you know influencing guys in the wrong direction quarterbacking the defense identifying

plays that are being run by the other team all that stuff is super underrated and he's very good at it and so is Lonzo Ball too. Lonzo Ball is kind of being slept on a little bit as well. That was the guy I wanted for the Celtics. And I didn't realize the Bulls had already made a deal with him like a year before the free agency did that or whatever. No, that's not true. He was quietly being shopped around before pre-agency. I heard from a couple teams that I was talking to,

hey, what do you think? Just like casually talking was talking to, hey, what do you think? Just casually talking to you like, hey, what do you think about this guy? What do you think about that guy? And some of the deals that were supposedly on the table for him that New Orleans was trying to do because they were panicking and they want to make sure they can save Zion,

you know, build around Zion Williamson. I was like, yeah, it just seemed like whoever was well positioned to capitalize on that panic was going to come away with a really good deal. And yeah, they let him walk. I thought it was going to be Marcus Smart, and I was fine with it, because I love Lonzo, and I think

he's younger, and I actually think he would have been better with the Jasons than Smart is, but he goes to Chicago. It's interesting. I mean, there's some like lonzo wasn't completely reworked his three-point shot the last few years um everyone shot better from three last year because there was no fans in the arena um but he's shot better this year as well his shot looks different that's interesting you think it was the no fans thing that's it i mean i don't think I know. I mean, it's, it's, it's funny because I was talking to a friend of mine earlier today and I mean,

yeah, you could say, okay, it's a little bit of the ball. It's a little bit of the increased defensive contact being allowed, but it's just, yeah, it's, I think it's just pretty clear when you look at the outlier that was last year, if you compare the previous two years, the last year, the actual three point efficiency went up last year was the outlier this year. Isn't so much like the poor shooting this year. Isn't as much of an outlier as the great shooting last year was. And I think what's different is, I mean, there's no, I mean, it's just easier. There's no fans. There's no distraction. It's, it's, um, yeah,

we had a little bit of the bubble the previous year too. I mean, I do think it, I do think it makes a difference. Yeah. Lonzo would have been on my team if I was running a team, it would have been done. I would have taken it down. I would text you sometimes with guys. I'd be like, this guy would already have been on my team. Hey, but you've got that sweet, sweet Spotify money. Why don't you have it?

Marketing is one of my misses. Hey, but you've got that sweet, sweet Spotify money. Maybe it's not. Marketing is one of my misses, I think. The more I watch marketing, I might have missed on that one. I'm not sure what position he is, and he's not a good enough shooter yet to justify all the kind of baggage he brings to a five-man unit.

I still like him on paper. He just can't seem like he can get there. I think the thing that, yeah, I think the thing that people miss in this stuff is this stuff is hard. Evaluating young players, especially, it's hard. You get, yeah, Markkinen was, you look at that draft,

he was kind of in there in the mix. I mean, look at the teams who missed out on Donovan Mitchell and took Malik Monk, Dennis Smith Jr. I don't know if Markman went ahead of Mitchell. He was right around the same. Yeah, it was like the draft was difficult. By the way, sometimes the draft isn't hard

because remember people weren't sure about Luka? Well, that was ridiculous. Luka's 18. He's destroying the second best professional basketball league we have. What are you guys talking about? Yeah. I think the other thing is people somehow think that playing against these

in Europe is easier. And it is. Obviously, the talent is not as good. But the game is structured in such a way with no illegal defense. It's a lot easier to score in the NBA in the paint to get to the rim than it is there. There, you just have a guy walled off. Walling off the paint. Very difficult.

So, yeah, that's true. Mobley going third was idiotic as it was happening and seems dumber now because when Houston things is like, well, we don't need a power forward. We have Christian Wood. We need a guard. It's like, okay, cool. Mobley's going to be awesome.

I'm not too busy. I'm not too eager to... I mean, he is amazing and he is good. I think it's a little bit early to say that yet. Not for me. Not in this house. Not too early. I'm already there. I'll tell you this, too.

Moby over Cade, I think, is the thing, too. A lot of people love this too. I'll tell you this. Mobley over Cade, I think is the thing too. And, and I, like a lot of people love Cade. I saw Mike Schmitz, who I really respect. And I think does a great job for ESPN was saying he's got like a little Luca type of feel offensively. Cade.

Cade. I, to me, he looks like I, I don't totally see it and I keep waiting and I'm watching and I've watched multiple Pistons games and he seems like a half step too slow to me at this point to be like to be like a generational guard which I think is where you have to be if you're taking him over Mobley yeah I don't know it's I think the Luka comps are ridiculous yeah across no. No more Luka comps. You're talking about a guy

who comes around once every 20 years, 25 years, 15 years, whatever. And so anyone who plays like a similar style is kind of, oh, we can have this guy as a heliocentric style, ball handling, pick and roll,

spread offense player. Yeah, there's more to it than that. I have one last thing on the Bulls, and it ties into, but I really want to save some time for us to talk about how much we enjoy watching the Lakers. If you're the Bulls, so Milwaukee is going to be there.

Milwaukee's just had dumb injuries, but I actually think their team, once everybody's there, is better than last year's team, talent-wise. And I think Giannis... What parts are better? I'm curious. I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just curious. I like the Grayson Allen piece. They didn't have DiVincenzo in the playoffs last year.

I think Giannis just as a facilitator is just a little bit better. I do think he picked up some stuff the last two rounds. There's a confidence with him that's just different. I expect them to go on a run as soon as they get everybody. Brooklyn, I don't know what to make of Because Blake

Is so washed at this point And then Millsap, they're getting Nothing from. Aldridge is shooting Well for now, we'll see, but It just seems like a two-man team to me With some Patty Mills, some Brown Like they're playing Joe Harris

For the money they're paying him and for his playoff performance is a little scary it's gonna it's gonna ebb and flow on how much they get out of Harden who knows what they get at Kyrie anyway

I'm not I'm not positive Kyrie had a Kyrie song I think I forgot well I'm even talking it's like a trade but if I'm Chicago and I'm looking at it

I'm like alright Milwaukee they're not playing well yeah we know they're going to be there. Brooklyn, kind of a mess compared to them. People think that they were a juggernaut heading into the season. I'm not really afraid of anybody else. Like, I do wonder, do they put Patrick Williams on the table?

Because he's out for the year. Are they one piece away from actually, like, competing to make the finals? Yeah. There are a few. I mean, as much as I love them, it's still a flawed roster. I mean... What do you think they need?

They definitely need a big... I mean, I know Vucevic is their guy, but I just... I'm not buying... The NBA is a matchup league. And so what would they do if they played the 76ers in a playoff series aside from getting smoked? I mean, they just would have no chance versus a healthy NBA.

Probably have no chance defending. I mean, there's two things. It's the big. It's also the rim protection. That's not necessarily always there. So yeah, they probably need another big. I mean, the thing about them is they don't need to be in a rush. They've got a nice little squad.

They've done a great job. Those guys have only been there who are running the team. Have only been there for two years now. This is their second year. But what do they need? Yeah, they probably need a hybrid 4-5. Someone maybe who can protect the rim.

Those guys used to be everywhere and now they're in short supply. Yeah, my thought was... I saw it the same way. I thought a small ball five slash Vuc protection for the wrong matchups would seem like the guy. Yeah, I think Vucevic has always been thought of as a poor defender, but he's actually a decent scheme defender. He's in the right spot more often than not. He rebounds the ball particularly well. But they probably need one other person.

I don't know. These teams that go super, super small are interesting to me because now most of the league is just kind of punting on offensive rebounds, with the exception of the Toronto Raptors. Yeah, look, Doc Rivers was ahead of his time. Throwing away offensive rebounds. And so you can get away with getting small in that regard

because teams aren't punishing you on the glass. They also have guards that are very good at rebounding. Both Caruso and Ball are good at rebounding. But there's the rim protection aspect. If you play a team that spreads you out and can penetrate and get to the rim, I feel like that could be a challenge. But we'll see. I don't know.

I'm not in the business of what teams do anymore to get better because I clearly had no interest doing it the first time around. So it's a little bit tricky. Yeah, I was wondering, Miles Turner was a guy I was thinking about for them. Because I don't know what Indiana is going to do. A Turner Sabonis year four or year five,

whatever it is at this point. Seems like something's got to give. I think he has real value and I think there's a few teams that he could really help. Yeah, the Pacers are a team that I watch very closely. Yeah, your guys there, Carlisle. You always got along with him. I like Carlisle, yeah.

Carlisle's a good dude. And there's a couple other guys on the staff too. Jenny Busick and Mike Weiner and then one of the guys from my department got a job working for the Pacers so I watch their stuff

um it's a pretty flawed roster yeah not a lot of terrible contracts because everyone's kind of on like a middling contract not any terrible contracts really but also not

any real hope for I mean they're they're kind of in on the hamster wheel of mediocrity of like always being like a first round exit. Now you look at how strong the East is. You could make the argument that they may not even make the playoffs this year.

It'll be a challenge. He's just so much better with the wizards, the Hornets, the bulls all having come ups, even the calves to some extent. Um, where, where is that?

Where's that spot going to come from them to make the playoffs? It's challenging. It'll be interesting to see. Yeah, I wrote down for panic trade teams because we're hitting Thanksgiving, which is usually when guys become really available. And I think Boston would have been on this list,

but I think they've kind of played off the list because of how well they're playing defense the last couple of weeks. Plus Tatum. I'm not jinxing the Tatum thing, but I'm just saying I of played off the list because of how well they're playing defense the last couple weeks. Plus Tatum, I'm not jinxing the Tatum thing, but I'm just saying I'm pleased with Tatum the last two weeks. You're back on. You were off the Celtics for a while and now you're back on. You're like, I'm crazy about this team.

What are they doing? I like how they're playing D and they really seem like they're on the same page. I'm not getting sucked in yet, but I'm pleasantly surprised. Well, one thing I will say about this team is, I was just looking at some numbers today. They are an outlier in terms of how many,

what percentage of their possessions on defense are cross-matched because they're switching so much. Yeah. So they're at 60%. Most other teams are at around 50, and the league average averages around 40 something. So when you go from that extreme of a switching style of defense, there's a learning curve there. And so I think it takes some time. Now, does that mean that it's the right style of defense? I don't

know. Probably, maybe we'll see. But it was unfair to judge them based on that. I think there's some other stuff though, that it's hard to go from being an assistant coach to a head coach and then to succeed right away. I think that can be a challenge. But I don't know. The players seem to be playing okay. It's kind of a... I mean, I think the Schroeder pickup

was probably one of the best value pickups of the summer. Oh, yeah. Just because of... I mean, if you look at what he could have gotten and what he ended up getting, there's value there. So, yeah, I'm with you. I'm not totally out have gotten and what he ended up getting, there's value there. So yeah, I'm with you. I'm not totally out on them. They've got obviously some talented players.

Brown has him playing lately. Yeah, we've already said too much. I'm going to obey the jinxing rules here. Panic trade teams. I have four. And then we mentioned Indy. I think New Orleans has to be in there. Sacramento is always in there. Sacramento is just a

yearly Thanksgiving entry. And then I think Houston because it's a weird roster. It seems like they just want to tank. Poor Silas goes in there, Harden immediately sabotages and blows up the situation.

That's year one. Year two, they literally don't have a point guard. This is a league where everybody's got three, four point guards who could potentially play 25 minutes a game. Houston has basically none. You can make the argument they still don't have one this year.

They've got a rookie point guard. They've got DJ Augustine. Yeah, they have zero. And meanwhile, they're paying John Wall $44 million not to play, which Chris Mannix wrote a good piece about this today. It's like, at what point is this stupid? You're going to pay John Wall not to play for two years because you're tanking.

Where's the league on this? And then John Wall is only 31. He's not washed up. Yeah, I don't know. I don't understand it. I'm not there, so I don't know. I don't understand it. I'm not there, so I don't know. I don't understand what the impetus is. Here's the thing that people don't realize.

You don't have to tank all the way to the bottom. The way the rules are, you're going to be a top four pick as long as the lottery odds are pretty... You just want to get in the bottom four. Yeah, they're going to be there. They're teams. Yeah. They're going to be there. They're getting there. They're certainly going to be there.

They've lost 15 in a row. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it, it, it has to be, it has to be painful to,

um, to be a part of that. I think as a head coach and to be a part of the staff and that, that's gotta be tough. And so I definitely, and I've worked with, with Steven in Dallas and I thought to be like, not just a,

not just like a good guy, but an outstanding human being. People love him. Works hard. Great family guy. Really, really sharp basketball mind as well. So, yeah. Definitely some empathy there for what they're going through. But who knows? Maybe they'll turn it around. Maybe they'll get a

They're not turning around. They're not turning around in the draft. It's funny. They're not turning it around this year I mean, they'd have to turn around in the draft. It's funny. They're certainly not turning around this year. Yeah, I mean, going three years down the road. It's a long process. He goes into the worst situation possible if you're a new coach.

And on the flip side, you see Unseld goes to Washington and they have all these veteran guys who kind of know what they're doing. And that's a really good situation for him. And if you just flip those guys, I don't know what happens. I do like, I think Unsell's done some good stuff, but if you just put him in Houston, nobody is saving Houston the last two years. Once Harden is like, get me out of here. You're done. That's it. That's true. That's true. I will say that Wes Unsell Jr. has been a very good defensive coach. I mean, here's what people don't get when

they're evaluating head coaches. Like, there's a guy running the defense more often than not. Yep. And that guy is the guy who's responsible for the defense. And so I think Denver had a very good defense with him. We had a defensive coordinator in Dallas

who was running our defense, who's responsible for the defense. He's no longer with Dallas. The defense looks a lot different. And so it's a little bit tricky to parse out credit or blame on coaching staffs when you're not aware of how much influence a specific coach has. But Unseld is like, I think he's in his mid-40s. And he's been, I think, a revelation as a coach this year. And I watch it the same way you do. And we text each

other sometimes when teams look sloppy or whatever. Washington does not look sloppy to me. That looks like a team that knows what it wants to do game to game. And I feel like he's maximized whatever their potential is. Yeah. I think one of the things when I was younger that I, that I was like overreacting to was like one mistake from a coach and like, Oh my God,

this guy, but, but I haven't seen anything. They, their end game, end of game. Usually I would look at end of game execution, what they're doing,

how they're managing timeouts. Are they going for threes when they're down four? Are they taking a foul to give at the right time? That sort of stuff. And so, yeah, he's been good. He's been very solid from what I've seen. They've played some close games. They've made the right moves.

They're identifying the right players to attack on defense on the other side of the court. They're playing their right... I mean, that's another... Are you playing your right players with the right combos? They seem to be running hot, but they seem to be playing quite well too. I mean, they've only got like a plus two point differential, which isn't great.

Give you an idea, the Celtics have a three point positive point differential. So, but yeah, they're a good, they're a solid team. I'm getting the idea the Celtics have a three-point positive point differential. But yeah, they're a good, they're a solid team. I wonder with Houston, they do have some assets to make some moves, but with Wall, everyone's like, Wall's untradeable. There's a fifth panic trade team that I think I have to mention.

Can we go back to Houston for a second though? Yeah, go. Can we go back to Houston for a second though? They had an asset that they had to move, so they couldn't get top value for Harden. But can you make the argument that that's what really... That lack of capitalizing on any... Did they get anything worthwhile in that deal? Is that just draft picks,

and the draft picks aren't even that particularly good, or would they have been better off? Because before, everyone was saying, oh, they should have done the Simmons deal. But now everyone hates Simmons. So it's interesting. It's funny how people are so fickle. But they could have gotten Maxie. Maxie could have been in that trade too.

And Maxie's been fantastic this season. I mean, I assume he would have been in there. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I do think that they got very, very low value for Harden. Me too. They were also in a very, very difficult situation. So it's tough to really... The part I didn't like is,

why wouldn't you want Jared Allen in that trade? Why would you rather have low first-round picks over... And it's like, well, we would have to pay Jared Allen. Well, great. I like Jared Allen. He could be in a playoff series. I don't like trading a superstar. And then you look back and you go, all right, what did I get for my superstar?

And the answer is, I have not one asset I can point to. It's like, oh, we got Karis LeVert and we turned him into Oladipo for three months and then basically nothing. It's like, that's not a good trade. Sorry. Yeah, it's definitely,

you definitely, A, don't want to have to trade a superstar and B, when you do, you want to be in the driver's seat and you want to be in control of that. You don't want the agent. Which is why I would have wanted Simmons back. Fifth panic trade team,

which I think always has to be mentioned, is Minnesota, because I do think they have a chance to make the playing game. So here's my question for you and then we'll take a break. I'm going to let you think about this. All right. Why would Minnesota be our John Wall team?

They could throw, it could be Beasley, Beverly, and Prince, just those three contracts. Two of them expire this year. And you take, you get John Wall back, you get him this year and next year, and you take a fire. And it's like, we're making a three for one where we're getting by far the best person in the trade. And he's an expiring contract a year from now. That would be great. Why couldn't that be the John Wall team? I don't know. I'm going to let you think about that. We'll take a quick break. All right. So before we get to the Lakers, because we have a lot to talk about the Lakers, why not Minnesota for John Wall? I think that's the John Wall team. Why not? What was it? Beasley? What did you say? Beasley? So it's two years of Beasley,

expiring Pat Beverly, expiring Prince. And I can get John Wall and just take a flyer out of him. How does that help Houston? I guess would be my question. Houston gets out of like $28 million next year, John Wall's contract.

What are, don't they't? Don't they have? Don't they have? What is it? Who's expiring? Beverly? Is that what you said? Beverly and Prince. So you're saving them $28 million. Yeah, I don't know that Wall necessarily moves the needle in Minnesota. I mean,

I would think if you're going to make a deal, I mean, he didn't play particularly well the last two years. He's averaged almost three to four turnovers. He averages like four turnovers a game in his first career. So you're saying he's untradeable? I'm not saying he's untradeable.

I mean, there's no such thing as... This is it. I'm giving you the only team. This is it. We have no other teams unless it's Lakers, Westbrook, for Wall yet again. Never underestimate the Lakers' ability to make a trade that people think no one else would make. They're definitely

the team that does that. They make it happen. I don't know. If I was Minnesota, I'd probably hold out for maybe something a little bit better. I'd try to... I wouldn't panic into the John Wall camp. Let's talk about Lakers because they put together this roster

of, I mean, a couple guys that I think if they waived probably wouldn't get picked up by anyone else in the league. I don't think DeAndre Jordan gets picked up by a single team if they waived him tomorrow. They have no salary cap flexibility with Westbrook

who's $44 million a year and they don't really have any other contracts they could trade other than Horton Tucker, who hasn't exactly been lighting it up. They have no outs is my point. And I, I think I was thinking this would end up like the 2018 calves or a lot of guys on this team three months from now, just aren't going to be in the team. But then you think, all right, well, so then who's going to be on the team? They have no way to even, they don't have the ability to flip

so-and-so for Jordan Clarkson and Larry Nance. They don't have the flexibility to do trades like that. I think it's unfair to judge this team until Kendrick Nunn, their star acquisition in the offseason, I'm just kidding,

it's going to become healthy. I'm just kidding. Not to be good, Kendrick Nunn. Ah, no, this is, this is an example of,

this is like, if you, I don't know, I don't know how to describe this without, it's just, I can't imagine who thought this was a good team to put. I mean, I just can't imagine who thought like, oh yeah,

we're building something. So the previous year, they didn't have enough shooting. So this year they went and signed a bunch of guys who, who not a bunch, but a few guys who can like, oh yeah, we're building something. So the previous year, they didn't have enough shooting. So this year, they went and signed a bunch of guys who, not a bunch, but a few guys who can shoot but can't really do anything else. Malik Monk is a pretty good shooter, decent offensive player, not that great defensively.

You can say the same about Nunn, although he's not that great a shooter. Ellington, good shooter, can't really defend, can't really do anything else. They've got all these guys who have one talent, and then they're expecting... Another one is Carmelo, not that great defensively, but pretty good shooter.

They did all this stuff, but then they didn't understand that they don't have the... You can do that if you have a good defensive core around the team. They do not have... Their best defensive player, aside from Anthony Davis, is who? I mean, maybe Avery Bradley, maybe Dwight Howard. You just won the title less than two years ago with all of these defensive wings.

And defense, and LeBron and Davis, and that was enough. And for some reason, it was like they all got amnesia for, you know, to, to, I never understood the Westbrook trade. We killed it on this pod multiple times. I didn't mind the idea of flipping Carol. And, uh, I think it was Kuzma for Buddy Heald. Cause at least it was like, all right, that makes a little more sense. At least you still keep KCP and you get a little defense, but going all in on Westbrook, I thought was just completely nonsensical. And it's worked out even worse than I thought. And then you watch yesterday.

It's like Westbrook headed for another triple-double. It's like, who cares? This guy's the worst possible fit for this team. Here's what I think. And this is maybe what they were thinking. Maybe not. Maybe I'm giving them credit in a weird way. But so I think they thought that LeBron needs some, like Westbrook is not good off the ball.

Yeah. He's got to have the ball. You're not going to have them spaced off the ball. Maybe they thought he could hang off the ball players play off and you give it to him really quickly. You can make a cut, make a quick pass. That's certainly true. He's a big, like regular season floor raiser. You could, you can make the argument. But at the end of the day, your goal is to win championships. And you can't be like, oh, well, because LeBron may not be durable for the whole year,

we need to find guys... At the end of the day, if LeBron's not durable for the whole year, this team just isn't winning a title, period. End of story. So why not build around the idea of like, well, let's hope he is and let's put together a roster

that fits around him versus... I don't think many people would say that LeBron and Westbrook are like, that's the ideal pairing for like, when you think of ideal pairings for LeBron James, I don't think anyone's ever really been like, Oh yeah. How about Russell Westbrook? The guy who, who like pissed off Kevin Durant because he wouldn't, because he wasn't passing to him enough or was taking over games.

Like it's interesting. Like, I don't know. Westbrook works very hard. He plays very hard. He wants to win. He's got that fire. That's definitely an underrated positive quality, but it's hard to not say he's

destructive to your team's offense. I mean, he's a turnover machine at this point. The spacing isn't there for him. I would say last three minutes of the game, he might have the worst judgment of any good player in the league. I don't know if I go that far.

Look, I don't, I think he's, I think he's a fine NBA player. He just might not be the right fit for this team and this particular goal. How about that? Do we leave it at that?

I mean, I don't know. That's fine. I heard you. No, I heard you. It's fine. I still think out of any good player in the league, he has the worst judgment on both ends in the last three minutes. I'm trying to play. No, I heard you. It's fine. I still think out of any good player in the league, he has the worst judgment

on both ends in the last three minutes. I'm trying to get in poker games here, Bill. I can't be having any bad mouth on Russell Westbrook. Why do we hate watching this team so much? What is it about them? What is it? It's everything. It's everything. It's just the lack

of humility top to bottom. A lot of it to me is because when I'm in LA and I'm watching these games, I'm forced to watch the Lakers broadcast. Oh my God. And it's like, and it's, it's like, they don't call him LeBron James. They call him King. And here's a guy who's like, I love LeBron, but dude's got chosen one tattooed across his back.

It's hard to not like when you're not the chosen one, it's hard not to look at the chosen one and be a little bit jealous. And so I'm just kind of like, I, you know, you, you don't want anyone to fail, but it's like, if there's anyone you kind of want to fail, it's the guy who's got chosen one tattooed across his back. You know, that's just me. It's just kind of fun.

I don't know what else to say. And I'm a LeBron lover. Like I went to game seven when they played warriors, cheered for the Cavaliers. Rooted for them. But when you go from Cleveland, blue collar, now you're in LA. It's just

how can you not root against the Lakers? I don't know how. It's a great point about the announcers because he gets to that thing with Stewart. He whistles an elbow at Stewart then follows through

with his fist and they're just acting like why is Stewart acting like this what's wrong with this guy and then they show the replay and it's like

inadvertent elbow yeah he was like yeah yeah I don't know I mean I think that's a big part of it because I never really had a problem

until the play-by-play guy just like oh and a king with a great play and it's just like he's not a king he's just like if you like and a king with a great play. And it's just like, he's not a king. He's just like, if you like kings, it's just,

to me, it's just funny. Maybe I'm just a hopeless serf and I'll never understand royalty. But to me, it just seems like funny to cheer for this team. But it's fun going to the games.

I will say, I go to the Clippers games and I go to the Lakers games and I thoroughly enjoy the Clippers, the Lakers games. And I feel like I need to take like some anti-anxiety medication when I go to a

Clippers game because the lights the music the fucking cannon that shoots out the fucking t-shirts yeah it's just a cacophony of madness when you go to these yeah they try to disorient you it really is disorienting like I yeah I had been traveling for 45 days I came home to LA for a little bit hadn't been leaving my house for a week. And the first place I went to was a Clipper game. And I was just like, what is going on here? I can't take this. It's too much. I have, um, it's a semi hot take. It's going to be immediately refuted by people who just look at the numbers and they're like, what are you saying? His numbers are the same. I think Davis put on too much muscle. I don't like the way he moves

compared to how he moved three years ago. And you can go on YouTube and you can look at that iconic New Orleans run he had in the 17, 18 season when he was just, he basically became Tim Duncan. And you're like, oh my God, what? This is like Tim. This is like evolutionary Tim Duncan. What's happening here? Now he's built like a center. And when I watch him move, and I know he's getting his 24 and 11. I know he's still in the right spots on defense. I just like him as the more athletic,

thinner version of himself. And it's interesting because you think about guys like Duncan, Garnett, people like that. Those were guys that really, really tried to avoid adding muscle to their frames as they got older. They thought, as I'm getting a little older athletically, I need the freedom, the flexibility, the fluidity. He's going the other way. It seems like he's trying to turn himself into a center,

and I don't love it. Now you're going to zag on this. I can see it in your face. I'm not the biomechanical expert that you are so i cannot i cannot identify the ideal body type for anything no i'm with you i mean you would think a lot from a longevity perspective you'd want to be as thin as possible i will say he's an absolute fucking monster on defense and i don't know that he i don't know that he was when i mean he kind of was but it was a different type of monster he's active asked to protect the paint a lot more I mean when we played them we basically were like whoever ad

is guarding get him the fuck out of the paint like I watched the the bulls that tried to do the same thing like you need if you have ad outside the paint on defense if you can have him guarding a perimeter guy you're getting layups if he's not guarding a perimeter guy and he's in the paint, you're not getting layups. Like the rim on versus off, depending on where he's guarded is big. So I don't know.

I mean, these guys have, I think the one thing that casual fan like myself and you don't realize, I mean, although we're not Catholic, okay, let's the refined fan, like myself and you,

uh, don't realize is, is, is just how much thought and planning goes into keeping these guys healthy and keeping them, you know, getting their bodies right. I would argue this is more dangerous for him because I think the more weight you carry when you're a big guy,

that's where it can go sideways sometimes. We'll see. Maybe I'm wrong. I think he's built himself like a center. Maybe he just filled out though too. I don't know. I mean, people get bigger when they can. There were stories about how he's like, I added 15 pounds of muscle, all that stuff. I think he wanted to be a center.

Everyone in the offseason comes back saying they added 15 pounds of muscle with the exception of maybe Luka Doncic. He's like the only guy who's never came back and said, I added 15 pounds of muscle. I'm in amazing shape. Yeah, it's something to watch for because I do think

when he when he moves now sometimes I've noticed like the stop start stuff he looks more like a center to me whereas like before

I really felt like he was in like how Evan Mobley is right now for the Cavs where it's just like oh man this guy or like even how Giannis has maintained

even as he's added weight he still moves like Giannis yeah have you ever remember how like Shaq when he'd have to get moving he'd have to like swing his arms to kind of generate Even how Giannis has maintained, even as he's added weight, he still moves like Giannis. Yeah. Have you ever, you remember how like Shaq, when he'd have to get moving, he'd have to like swing his arms to kind of generate momentum.

That's like my, yeah, that's like my eye test on if a guy's got too much weight is if he has to like generate forward momentum with his arms before he can start moving forward. And I don't see that with Davis, but I do see that with other players for sure. I do think he wanted to be more physically opposing this year. We'll see if it works. I personally am more of a fan of the 2018 Leiter version.

Let's evaluate the team when they got all their key pieces back, like Kendrick Nunn and can really make a run for it. They played the Pistons the other night. I watched it. And they came back from behind. And someone was, I think it was, someone tweeted, I forget who it was. It might have even been Lasola.

It was like, oh, I can't wait to read the takes that LeBron, by will of his ejection, caused this rally for the team. But they didn't actually say that. But it was like, people were celebrating on Twitter. And it's just like, what a gutty win from this try-hard Lakers. It's terrible to trade teams.

Cinderella story come back from the Lakers with the King being out. Trade jump teams. Teams that could jump a level if they made a trade. We mentioned the Bulls. I think Dallas. I just don't know what the trade is. Memphis? Dallas is not far off

I mean they've got they've got the West as we mentioned before is pretty wide open so Memphis is Memphis is one for me, do you agree with that one? Could they trade Adams for Valentinas again, would that work? I mean

they could take that one back and they'd be alright They do have a 3 for one that they can do. Like they have a lot of assets. The fact that Bain has emerged, they have the ability to go up a level on a trade. I'll say this about Memphis. They have done a great job drafting and building that team in the last few years.

So I'm pretty impressed with what they've done. I wasn't a fan of Steven Adams signing. Me neither. Or trade, whatever. But these things are not always easy. They're easier in retrospect. Boston and Washington would be my other two. Could either of those teams sneak up a level with the red trade? I don't know. Yeah. I mean, any team in theory could sneak up a level. Is that going to take them to... I think the hierarchy of the league is Milwaukee, Miami, and let me see who I have here.

So you'd put Miami top level because I have them right on the fringe, knocking on the door. While I was talking about teams, it could get a little bit better. In the East, I think there's three teams that are just better than the rest. And that's Miami, Brooklyn, and Milwaukee.

Those are the three teams. Philadelphia is another team that's a trade that could happen that could maybe catapult the team. I mean, they seem to be playing all right. In the West, Utah. What's Golden State, Phoenix, and then Utah. I would say it would be the three. I could improve themselves.

Yeah, the best teams in the West are Golden State, Phoenix, and then the rest of the West. Golden State has the easiest ability to do something. I just am not convinced that they will. But they can make any type of trade. My guess is they're just going to add Clay back and see how they look after they do that.

Seems like a reasonable thing to do. Yeah. Right. I mean, why not see what they have? They've already got, they've already got the, uh,

you know, the best defense in the league, um, which is not, there's seven points. I mean, they've had an easiest schedule, but they're good.

But they're also killing teams. Like they're plus 13 right now, which is outrageous. They lost one game in overtime and the other game by three or four points or something like that. They are good, for sure. Fun to watch, too.

Do you think Curry, is he the most underrated superstar of this generation, or would you have somebody else? I don't know. I've never really underrated him. I think people... I think people don't appreciate. I've never really underrated him. Um, I think people, maybe I think people don't appreciate how great he is.

Yeah. Mitch is maybe the same thing as underwriting. Uh, but he is, yeah, he, he is, I mean,

he completely bends the defense more than anyone on the ball, off ball. Everyone kind of like got upset with her for not running like basic pick and roll when, when their team was trash and, and, and even Curry, I think wanted to for not running like basic pick and roll when, when their team was trash and, and, and even Curry, I think wanted to run a little bit more pick and roll,

but I think it's hard. It's hard to, it's hard to be upset with the results. Now that the way that team plays is, I mean, it's very easy to defend a heliocentric pick and roll based offense. It's very difficult to defend step off the ball. Like their point guard is essentially Draymond Green.

He leads their top five in assists most of the time, in the league even. And so, yeah, they are a uniquely difficult team to guard because of Curry and because of the system they play. And they've gotten a little bit sharper analytically, in my opinion. They made some great signings. I love Bielica.

I love Porter. Just fringe guys. If you're going to fill out a roster, the Lakers would have signed a Bielitsa or a Porter or whatever. Guys who can actually... Both those guys have some health concerns. But yeah, they've done a good job and

they are going to be very tough to beat. But they're also... All of these teams are... Any team that gets an injury to their key player. They're a team that Curry's been around for a while. He's had pretty heavy load. He's carrying a lot of mileage. Who knows what happens when Clay comes back. It's legitimately wide open.

The shocker for me is Kaminga, who I was prepared to just put in the bus category based on all the intel about oh, he's one of those guys. The talented guy who doesn't always work hard, not sure what position he is. And then you watch him. They're grooming him into like this

Kawhi Paul George level two-way guy. I don't know if it'll happen, but I've really liked what I've seen in the limited sample sizes. Yeah, he's played. I think what I've recognized in these guys who play limited minutes, it's very easy for them to come in

and be super hyper-focused in a four, five, six-minute stint versus... 35 minutes. Yeah, imagine if Andrew Wiggins only played six minutes a game, you'd probably be like, oh my god, this Wiggins can play more. He's great. Then you put him out there for 30 minutes a game, and it looks like some of the times he's not super down. Wait a second.

Wiggins is a huge renaissance this year for Wiggins. As a Canadian, you should be rooting for this. How dare you slander Wiggins? I'm not slandering Wiggins. As a Canadian, you should be rooting for this. How dare you slander Wiggins? I'm not slandering Wiggins. I just think the unfair thing about Wiggins is he's the number one overall pick, and so the expectations are too high. When really... Now they're

too low. Yeah, now maybe they're too low. I mean, now he's like a guy who can get 17 a game and guard a bunch of guys on the other end, and he just makes too much money, you know? Yeah, he defends pretty well, I will say. He just doesn't do a whole lot

offensively. I mean, shot selection isn't ideal on offense. So it sounds like you haven't totally warmed up to this Golden State team yet. You're still a little suspicious. No, I mean, I think they're the best team in the West, probably the best

team in the league, but the best team in the league, but it's early and we'll see what happens. All right, you're being cautious. Yeah, cautiously optimistic. All right, we're taking one more break and then I have a couple very focused questions for you. All right, coming back. I know you hated

the way I love the way you start I know you hated this guy no no I know you hated this is a rule thing because Rossello and I were on this a lot of people were on this the initiating contact

getting the cheap fouls basically and the league drummed that out of the game I love that I love those rules you love the old rules you're pro old rules initiating contact, getting the cheap fouls, basically. And the league drummed that out of the game. I love that. I love those rules. You love the old rules. You're pro old rules. Because my whole life has been about exploiting angles and inefficiencies. And we called them jabroni plays. We need to get our players to be bigger jabronis. Why not pump fake, lean into the guy?

I didn't love it as a casual fan, but as, like, a scientist who's, like, trying to, like, eek out every edge. Like, I wanted our guys to practice three-point shooting fouls,

leaning into, I want all that stuff because it's just free. Well, this leads me to my question. What, now that we can't exploit that rule, what is the next

rule exploitation? What do you see? Oh, hmm, interesting. Is there anything right now? Because they do such a good job of always innovating and trying to shut the door to stuff. So now what do we have? I don't know. That's a good

question. I don't think there is one. I mean, those were definitely the ones for sure. Yeah, I think now the exploitation is being as physical as possible that's why caruso's having a ball like a ball out here is being as physical as possible on the perimeter because it's not even so much it's like a culture it's not a culture war on fouls it's a culture war on shooting fouls so like if you're getting to the rim you're still

drawing fouls if you but if you're on the perimeter you're not getting those fouls and so i think like ramping up the physicality on the perimeter is the cheat code. Maybe even more teams are blitzing now, more teams are hard showing, less teams are playing drop coverage with their bigs. That's what I love about basketball. All these things change

and you have to be able to adapt as a coach or as a player because things change so quickly. Either it's through adapt as a coach or as a player because things change so quickly either it's through the advent of analytics or the advent of film or the advent of players getting better and improving their skills but yeah i guess the angle now the inefficiency now is is how how far can you push the physicality level on the perimeter so that's good for marcus smart and guys like that there's certain types of players that the league has shifted in their favor a little bit.

Yeah, it's good for any... Yeah, no, that's very... And it's also... It also is good for point guards who can handle the physicality because they'll stand out a little bit. I'm not sure who those guys are. It's Ja Morant. That's why I think he's leading the league

in points within like six... Or shots and points inside six feet or something. There's some crazy stat where it's like him and Giannis. You're like, Whoa. Okay. But on the flip side,

on the flip side, the trade Dame guys have taken a big hit. Their free throws are way down. I think Dame's look bad since the summer. And I would be really nervous to make a massive trade for him. He's, I would not. He's,

he's looked much better recently. Um, and I think like as humans, like we like to build these narratives around small samples and yeah, he didn't look great, but I don't, I don't think it's indicative. I mean,

you could probably carve out five or six games of, of his career or a previous season. Let's say you can take 10, 15 games where he just didn't look good. He just all happened to come one after the other. Yeah. So is there something, is there something actually wrong with him?

I had him in like the top nine. I just wouldn't have been there anymore. He's going to have to play his way back in at this point. Well, that's a, that's going to be, I'm sure that, yeah,

I know it's going to motivate him. And I'm sure he's listening right now going, Oh wow, I'm not in the top nine anymore. What the fuck? What did I do? What am I going to do to get back in? Yeah.

No. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure he's laying awake at night with that tape above his headboard. Well, I just wonder. I love this guy. Okay, so he's 32 years old, and it's going to take a king's ransom to get him if Portland decides that maybe that's the move. And I would be nervous about it. I'm nervous about the history of small scoring guards as they hit their mid-30s. I would be nervous about it. I'm nervous about the history of small scoring guards as they hit their mid-30s. I would be nervous about it.

Yeah, that's fair. I mean, I think it's interesting thinking about what these teams' goals are. To me, the goal is always to maximize your chance to win a championship. Yep. And so you go with guys who are superstars. He's undoubtedly a superstar.

So I would... You would not trade him? I mean, I don't think Portland... I would trade him just to be courteous if I was Portland, just to help this guy win somewhere. They're not going to win there. They haven't done anything to build around him.

So if he wanted to be traded, I would trade him. But that's easier said than done when it's not your team. If it was my team, I wouldn't want to trade him. But you could build around him, but it's challenging your team. If it was my team, I wouldn't want to trade him. But you could build around him, but it's challenging because

you need to hide some of the defensive inefficiency there. But yeah, he's probably... Him and Curry are the two toughest players to game plan, except maybe Giannis to be in there too, obviously. But in terms of guys who aren't physically imposing players, they're the most difficult because you have to

have... You can't sleep for a second off the ball. You can't sleep for a second off the ball. You can't sleep for a second. As soon as he comes across half court, that shot could be going up. And that can be nerve wracking when you're trying to defend. Daryl made the point publicly and privately as well

about, hey, if I trade Ben Simmons, I'm not trading, I'm not making a trade for him that's going to decrease my chances to win the title this year because I have one of the best players in the league in Embiid. So don't throw these trades at me unless my percentages are going up.

You're a percentage guy. You look at big picture stuff sometimes that way. The way he framed that, do you agree with that? The way, that thinking? He's in a tough, yeah. I mean, it's hard to disagree with him. I just don't know what their moves

are. If you don't have to pay the guy, why would you be wanting to trade him? I guess that's the main... Before Ramona Shelburne wrote that piece on the mental health aspect, they were not having to pay him, and then now I guess they're having to pay him, but maybe not having sometimes.

I'm not sure exactly what the actual status is right now. I don't know what his market is. I don't know. It seems like they're not going to get a great deal for him. I will say this. The way the league is structured right now, something has to change. I'm all for giving players empowerment. You cannot have players sign max contract with their

rookie scale teams the teams that they were drafted and and get these large contracts and then a year after demand to trade yeah it's just not that's just not good for the league itself the league is already being run by this like cabal of like whatever agents players etc everyone wants to go to a certain few teams, certain select few teams. It's just not equitable. And I think like, I don't know what the solution is, but I think I have some solutions.

I think that could work. But certainly not, you know, being, let me look at Harden wants out. Okay, we got to deal with them. Simmons wants out. Okay, we got to deal with them. Well, it's just tough. Like, how do you run one of these teams

that has these players who want to get traded? How do you run a small market team? I mean, Philadelphia isn't a small market, but I think that's very tough on them, but I think they also need to hold some accountability for not doing a better job kind of holding him to a higher standard. I mean, you can't have a player

who refuses to shoot three-pointers in a game. That's not great. But then you can as a team. You can't throw him under the bus right after you lose. You know how hard it is to... You just lost the game and now you're on... You hear from your coach and your teammate throwing you under the bus after a game.

That can't be good either. They should hold some accountability. Doc Rivers should not have said what he said, in my opinion, right after that. I think that probably started it. I mean, you could say it privately, whatever, but I don't know. It's very tough.

I think the league has to make some changes to the way they structure contracts, and I don't think it'll ever happen, but I have an idea for it. Oh, I have another idea another idea your idea you go first let's hear it okay my idea is no max contract hard salary cap you can sign players to however much money you want they have a hard cap of 100 and whatever it is 50 million let's say 160 million and now you can now will players join up and want to be part of these super teams if they can go get 80 million someplace else?

Like, how much would a player like Luka or Durant or whomever get if they could, I mean, now you really will see, like, what the situation is. First of all, it's so easy to build one, like, how much should we play this player?

Oh, is he a max player? Yes. Oh, we signed for the max. Is he a mid-level? Oh, we signed for the mid-level. Like, there's, it's so easy to build one. How much should we pay this player? Oh, is he a max player? Yes. Oh, we signed for the max. Is he a mid-level? Oh, we signed for the mid-level. It's so basic to run one of these teams and decide how much to pay a player. I think this would reward the smarter teams.

It would be able to keep the smaller market teams afloat somewhat. Bad news is the union would never go for it because the contracts would be skewed to the point where your second tier, third tier players maybe would not be getting paid as much money and the LeBrons of the world

would be getting like $100 million or $60, $70, $80% of the cap. Yeah, you're talking Hollywood star system, basically. It's like if it's a Will Smith movie and he's driving the value of the movie,

Will Smith should make by far the most money in the movie. By the way, if you're the king, you should get paid the king's ransom and that's just the way it if you're the king, you should get paid the king's ransom. And that's just the way it should be.

You should get paid that much money. Why is Russell Westbrook making more than LeBron James? That's just the way the team is. It's because of the way the contracts are structured. It's bananas. Here's my tweet, because I've been thinking about this a lot, because I think this is part of the problem

with dealing Simmons. I think it's part of the problem the Lakers have with Westbrook, which is like $44 million. How do you trade that? John Wall, whoever it is. Um,

you see with Kevin Love with the calves, Kevin Love, nice guy to have in your nine man rotation. I'm not paying him 32 million a year. And then if you're Cleveland, who am I getting back? That has to make within 25% of that. It seems like such an easy solution would be to really,

really change the trade rules. And like, why couldn't Russell Westbrook get traded for a guy who makes seven million? Well, it's got to fit under the cap. Like, does it? Like if, if why, I don't know who would want Russell Westbrook's a bad example. Let's say Kevin Love. Let's say Philly decides, yeah, we'd love to have Kevin Love. It just sucks that we'd have to give back $25 million worth of salary, but we feel like we have a chance to win the title. Actually, Phoenix is a better example of this. Phoenix goes, let's say Robert Sarver was a chief. Oh, we could get Kevin Love and we'll just give up

a $4 million guy and we'll just take the huge salary bump of the $28 million difference. But we're trying to win a title. We don't care. You can't do that. But then with the point of having a salary cap, then you would just have the richest teams be able to get the best players without any penalty. So you put in provisions where it's like you

have a card you could use like every four years. You can just jump. there's some sort of luxury baseball has sounds like a game it sounds like more of a game of uno than it does uh baseball has this baseball has this luxury tax thing where you can go over it a couple years but if you do it for a third year in a row there's just a massive penalty right and the nba has why the red sox traded mookie bets but does i'm not familiar with the MLB salary cap, but is there a max salary per player? It's not a salary.

It's as much as a... No, there is no max salary. And it's more of a luxury tax thing than... So there's some hybrid of this where teams should be able, if they have a chance to win the title, to take more chances than they can. A team like Philly should be able to trade Ben Simmons

if they want for a guy who makes $6 million a year. And that's just the trade. If the team that's getting Ben Simmons, this is the one year in four that they're adding some massive salary. There's some way to do this. People love comparing the NFL and MLB to basketball. I think the difference with basketball is

the one player is worth so much more to the team. And so you have to be cognizant of that like um it's not like the nba has had parity anyway so it doesn't really matter but like i don't know the whole thing is kind of ridiculous like oh you're the worst you happen to win the lottery when your lebron is a rookie great now you're going to be good that to me is just kind of i'm like a look at cleveland Look at Cleveland. Cleveland gets Mobley, Kyrie Irving, and LeBron in three different ladders. My thing is this. I think there should be no draft. I think

there should be a hard cap. And I think there should be no max salaries per players. Then you don't have the tanking. Then you don't have all this other nonsense for the draft. Any incoming rookie at the age of 18 or whatever, however you want to do it, is a free agent.

This idea that you're going to race to the bottom with tanking is just awful for the game. Yeah. But it also makes it kind of exciting for the fans who are rooting for their team to lose, and then they got the lottery and the whole thing. I don't know. The whole thing is interesting to think about.

I think it's absurd that the best, best, best players in the league are getting paid roughly the same amount as other players just because of the sheer force of the way the system is designed. And I don't know that it's any fairer for the bottom tier to mid-tier players. I think it's more fair for the guys like the guys you mentioned, like Kevin

Love and Russell Westbrook. They're able to get maxed out because the team really has no choice. What are we going to do? Well, we might as well max them out. We can't sign anyone else anyways. Well, I remember I had an idea way back when that I still think would be a decent kind of Band-Aid fix where the longer somebody stays with the team,

the less his salary cap number is. And this was actually an idea I had for football initially. But like Dame Lillard, he's been on the Portland team since I think the 2012 draft, right? So this would be year 11. So once you're with the same team past like eight

years, maybe your actual salary only counts 80% of the cap. And if you're there with them 12 years, maybe it's 50%. And now the guy's incentivized to stay because it's actually a competitive advantage for his team the longer he stays.

You know, like Luca is a good example of this. I would love to make the rules as complex as possible just because I would love to see some of these GMs try to struggle with this stuff. I think it would be amazing. I can't imagine some of the people I work with trying to do the math on that stuff. That would be fun.

But you see the principle of that, right? Like you're rewarding, if Luca stays with the Mavs 15 years from year 10 to year 15 or year eight to year 15, maybe that should be like a little bit of a competitive advantage that it helps you with your cap. Maybe you get an extra free player. I don't know. All right. Next question for you. So you, there was a piece. Please let it be about, please let it be about crypto funds. No, I'm just kidding. Oh, that was my last question.

Oh, geez. I'm right. Got to send me the sheet ahead of time. Sorry. Go ahead. You can edit that up. I apologize. No, keep going.

All right. So you got written about, about your tenure with the Mavs and there was stuff. And it was, I've been in this situation too, where people are writing about you and they're writing either. They're taking the accounts from somebody who obviously has an ax to grind or their version of a story or whatever. And then people put the piece together and you're reading it and you're going, well, wait a second, that's not what happened or that wasn't true. Or what was that

experience like for you? Cause that had obviously never happened to you before. It was infuriating for like a hot minute. And by a hot minute, I mean like an afternoon. And then I just kind of realized it doesn't really matter. Yeah. Uh, I got messages from people that I worked with that were like, Hey, I have no idea what's going on.

Like, I'm sorry that you're going through this, but a lot of people I actually cared about. Here's the thing. There's this idea. Um, well, first off, I'd want to say it was an article that was written.

Um, nobody went on the record, which is fine. It wasn't just so much an axe to grind, but there was people who were incentivized to keep positions that were getting... People were getting paid a lot of money. In most cases, these people would not get a job

anywhere else. And so I underestimated what lengths people would do to hold on anywhere else and so i i underestimated what lengths people would do to hold on to in some cases millions of dollars which is you know probably naive but whatever um what was it like it was it was a good test of my i don't know my what actually matters in life like it didn't matter at the end of the day i I was... In March, I left the team. I was like, Hey, I'm going to go work remote. This isn't from... This is just called like, Oh, a player got upset because I left with three minutes left or a minute and a half left in the game. Oh, I do that 80% of the time. It was just so... It just got to be so absurd.

What I learned is that there's a lot of people who get to the top or get to a level in the world. And some of them do it based on merit. And some of them do it based on another type of merit, which is just like clawing, kicking, scratching, doing whatever they can to get ahead. Politics, backroom dealing, Machiavellian sleazy stuff. I've never been about that stuff. There are some people that do. I underestimated them. I don't know. This idea that I'm difficult to work with, I'm like, oh yeah, I guess I could see that. I actually don't believe it to be true. I think that

if you are a certain type of person, you might find me difficult to work with because I expect a lot out of people. I expect integrity. I expect you to work hard. I expect you to be good at what you do. And if you don't check some of those boxes... You're going to be suspicious. You're just going to find me difficult to work with because I like to hold people

accountable to what they say. If you say something and it doesn't bear out, the numbers don't bear it out, or the data doesn't bear it out, or facts don't bear it out, I will probably be the guy to be like, Hey, actually, that's not 100% accurate. But whatever. It was a cool experience. I think if I were to do it all over again, I would want to be more... I'm a control guy in the sense that I've always been my own boss. I've always had people working for me.

People who have worked for me have always had very, very good relationships with them. I work well with others in the sense that I want to hire people who are smarter than me and can help me grow. And I just didn't really feel like there was a lot of people who were incentivized to help me grow or help me learn things or help me. Well, you know, you left out the key part with me. They're threatened because you have a direct line in Cuban and they resent it. And it's funny reading this stuff that happened to you. It was a completely different situation,

but it reminded me of some of the ESPN stuff I had because ESPN was controlled basically by these mediocre people who were in mid-level management who were super political and wanted to control everything. And you see the shows always change, the talent always changes,

and the same people are still always there. And it's like, all right, what's the one thing that's not changing here is all the people behind the scenes who it's always everyone else's fault when something doesn't work out. And those people are incentivized to just grab as much power as they can

to leak stuff to whoever. And I don't know, it reminded me a little of the ESPN thing. Yeah, I don't know. The other thing that's kind of interesting is just the idea that an article is written and then the guy who writes the article goes on this like media tour for like a week and a half right doing like 30 podcasts and it's just like bro relax like you're not fucking reporting on watergate here you're talking about like something that you didn't even really have any any knowledge

of you got some some you know you're insider. You know, he reaches out for comment and he's like, he's, the whole thing was just ridiculous, but it kind of is endemic of the state of journalism right now. If you want to call it journalism, it's media,

it's clickbait. Like they put Luka Doncic's name in the header of the article. Yeah, and it's like, the Mavs might lose Luka Doncic if they keep Haralabab. It's like, all right, cool.

Yeah, that's great. The whole thinga Bob. It's like, all right, cool. Yeah, that's, that's great. Yeah. The whole thing was, yeah, I mean, I,

I was, I was definitely, uh, surprised. I knew an article was coming. I was definitely surprised at how, I mean,

how specifically, I mean, here's the thing I find funny is like these guys who are like going crazy like, oh my God, we should have drafted

Sadiq Faye. Why didn't we draft Sadiq Faye? Okay. Well check back in a couple of years. I'm not saying that the guy we picked is better. I'm just saying like, it's easy to say we should have done something after the season's over and a guy makes an all rookie team.

The other part of it is, is like, where's the realism on who you guys drafted last year or the year before? Like you guys don't not have a good draft record and now you're Monday morning quarterbacking this one pick. So yeah, it was interesting. I mean, look, I think it's very difficult

to be a journalist. I have a lot of... It wouldn't be something I would want to do for a living, but the guys who do it and do a good job of it have my sympathy. The guys who just try to... I mean, I don't think it's easy to stand out amongst 150 people who are writing

for the fucking athletic. And so I get that doing something like this is good for someone's career. But it was, yeah, the whole thing was kind of ridiculous

as far as I was concerned. But whatever. I mean, people love that sort of thing. They love the stories. They love the fame. They love the podcast. In defense of the writer,

like he clearly had people that were going to him with stuff and it would have been irresponsible for him not to write it. He had a lot of... There's a lot of meat on the bone.

I think in retrospect, I don't really know what your play would have been because the piece seemed to be sorely missing your perspective, but at the same time, you shouldn't have talked to it.

So I don't know. At that point, I don't even know what to say. Yeah, I didn't really care to be honest. I didn't really give like the main thing was like, okay, if this player in fact does not like you, then your days are numbered anyways.

I didn't really care enough. I never had a relationship with him, good or bad. I know. I just kind of like, I loved him as a player, love them as a person still do still think he's like a great dude, all that stuff.

Um, but I just didn't really care. I mean, the whole thing is like, I'm there to do a job. I'm doing my job. I didn't realize I was that my part of my job was to like, you know, ingratiate myself with people who were not working in my department, who were kind of already, you know, looking at me with suspicion or, or there's a lot of things working, working against me. And, and, but a lot of things I could have done.

You never come to Bristol. Why don't you come to Bristol more? You're not promoting so-and-so. I have five jobs. I don't have time to promote a countdown on sports center. Sorry. Yeah. It's funny. They, they just, I get it, man. I guess is my point. All right, last question. Why is it, you're a big crypto guy. You've been in on it early. I'm always suspicious of rich guys telling me, oh, this is how you should spend your money when they seem like they're a little incentivized.

Why isn't this a Ponzi scheme? Explain to me why we should trust crypto. You should trust it. You should trust crypto. I mean, I trust, personally, I'm a Bitcoin guy. And so you should trust it because it is governed by math. There's nothing to be suspicious about. Everything is 100% knowable. It's on a centralized ledger, so it's completely transparent. And I think the thing to look at would be like, our governments are around the world, specifically in the US, Canada, some other countries are printing money and

spending money at an inordinate rate. The average person is having his purchasing power devalued because there's more dollars in supply. And so crypto solves that in a way. You can have something that is... There's only 21 million Bitcoins ever will be produced. It's hardwired into the code. You can have self-sovereignty over your finances. You don't have to have someone else controlling your finances. That to me is the biggest part of it. I don't need permission to send someone money.

I can do what I want with it. I can decide to save. And I think that's one thing Americans in general are not that good at, is the idea of saving and planning. Because the game is rigged. If you are a young person, you are fucked. You are going to school, you are getting hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, and you don't have this incentive to save. And crypto kind of... Bitcoin does that. If you knew something was going to go up in value, you would invest in it. You could... It's kind of like the game is kind of rigged for it to go up in value, you would invest in it.

It's kind of like the game is kind of rigged for it to go up. It's not a Ponzi scheme, but it's game theory optimal that the more people who want it, the more the price is going to go up because there's a limited supply of it. And the earlier you get in, the better off you're going to be. And so to me, it's just like, it's gold, basically. Boomers love gold. This is digital gold. It's more easily transmissible than gold. It's easily, you. Boomers love gold. This is digital gold. It's more easily transmissible than gold. It's easily... You can store it without gold. You don't have to have it in a vault somewhere. You don't have to have permission from someone else to tell you that you're allowed to hold this. You can just have it on a wallet or a key or hardware wallet. So that's my little rant on crypto. I think there's more to it than that. But it is just

the ability to save without having permission from the state to do what you want to do with your money. You can do whatever you want with it, have sovereignty over your finances and opt out of this crooked system that is benefiting the very, very most rich people in the world and hurting the poorest people who don't have the ability to save. Sounds like you should have a crypto pod for the ringer. Hey, sign me up. Are you in? What would a crypto pod look like?er. Hey, sign me up. Are you in? What would a crypto pod look like?

We should talk about it. We'll talk about it off air. What would it look like? It would look like some of the nerdiest, but coolest people you could ever imagine talking about matters that will blow your mind. That's what it would look like. Imagine life in the metaverse, but on a pod.

All right, we'll a pod. All right. We'll talk about it. Not fair. Last, last question. Gambling boom. Lots of gambling stuff, gambling legal in a bunch of States.

Now we're, we're able to do gambling stuff on pods, including this one in ways that we couldn't do before. Yeah, no, but you were, you were in there early. You're in the dirty underground.

Maybe we'll talk about that the next time. But now it's like you can overtly do some of this stuff. And my fear always goes to if gambling becomes so much easier to do, then it would also become so much easier to have another Donaghy situation, something like that. You were on the Donaghy thing, I think, the earliest. You had flags. I got screwed more than anyone else on the Donaghy thing, I think, the earliest. You had flags. I got screwed more than

anyone else on the Donaghy thing. I probably lost more money betting against Donaghy games because I didn't realize the games were whatever legal term I can use that's not going to get me sued by the league. There were some shenanigans going on and my model was not picking it up. Do you think all the gambling

stuff opens the door for another Donahue situation or do you think there's more bells and whistles and checkpoints and checkmarks? What is the trite saying? Sunlight is the best disinfectant. I think having this stuff out in public is much better than having it operate in the shadows.

So I'm not worried about that. What I'm worried about is just the league's dependence on gaming revenue to survive I mean they're lucky crypto is around crypto crypto.com center

that's what I'm saying look FTT arena in Miami crypto.com all these teams are going to have I mean crypto the new rich

are crypto people whether that'll continue through the next dump who knows because there probably will be another dump coming

but we'll find out on the next RinglePod that we do that's crypto-centric. Listen, you and I are going to talk. And I really want to figure out the trading thing. Maybe the next time we do a pod, and I hope to have you on at least a few times this season. I really want to figure out, is there a better way to do the salary cap and trade rules?

I know you go on Twitter and check your replies. If people have good ideas, send them to Bob. Bob, Bob loves a good idea every once in a while. Why are you, why are you inundating? Why don't they send them to you? Why are they coming to me? Cause I'm not going to look, I don't look at replies. You're too big time for that. I'm still on the street. I'm a man of the, look, I'm a man of the people. You're a man in the streets. You're a man in the streets. You're willing to get your hands dirty. That's right.

Bob, great to see you. Glad to see your face and glad to have you on a pod again. Look forward to doing more with you. For sure. Appreciate you having me on, Bill. It was great. All right. This podcast was produced by Kyle Creighton. Don't forget about the rewatchables coming on Thursday.

Hoosiers, 35th anniversary. Don't forget about Music Box on HBO. DMX, Don't Try to Understand. Thursday night, 8 p.m. HBO or HBO Max. Check that out. Don't forget about all of our great offerings from the Ringer Podcast Network. And don't forget about theringer.com from the Ringer Podcast Network and don't forget about

theringer.com it's a really good website that has some good writing this week so there you go happy Thanksgiving enjoy time with the family enjoy the break

we will see you here on Sunday night On the wayside, I never said I don't have feelings for him On the wayside, I never said I don't have feelings for him