The Bill Simmons Podcast - The Rejuvenated Cowboys, Most Desperate NFL Teams, Lane Kiffin’s LSU Move, and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal, Todd McShay, and Van Lathan

Episode Date: December 1, 2025

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Cousin Sal right after the Broncos’ OT win against the Commanders to recap Week 13 of the NFL season (2:45). Then, they discuss the teams with the most depressed fan bases before guessing the lines and Parent Corner (25:14). Finally, Todd McShay and Van Lathan joins the pod to react to Lane Kiffin leaving Ole Miss to coach at LSU (01:24:45). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Cousin Sal, Todd McShay, and Van Lathan Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo Michelob ULTRA Courtside could get you closer to the game! michelobultra.com/courtside This episode is sponsored by State Farm®. Don’t settle for just any insurance when there’s State Farm. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠⁠ www.rg-help.com⁠⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by the Ringer podcast Network. We have a new rewatchable is coming for you on Monday night. We're doing Rocky 2. It is the last one we haven't done out of the good ones. We've done Creed. We did Rocky 3 first, Rocky 4, Rocky 1. We did Creed, and yet we haven't done Rocky 2. and we saved it for last.

It's a complicated movie, a little flawed, very beloved, lots of good stories, a lot of good research coming out of it. This would be a really good podcast, me, Chris Ryan, Van Lathen, so that's going to be up Monday night. You can watch it on Spotify. You can listen to it on Spotify. You can listen to it wherever you get your podcast, or you can watch it on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel,

which has all the big picture stuff as well. coming up on this podcast, Cousin Sal and I reacting off of Denver, Washington, overtime. Denver wins, but pretty fascinating week 13, dating back to Thanksgiving and Black Friday, that set up a lot of playoff stuff

with week 14 is going to be the best football weekend of the year. We're talking about everything we noticed all the winners and losers. And then, normally that's it. We do guest Alliance Parent Corner and we call quits. But the Wayne Kiffin thing was so interesting this week that I decided to have Todd McShay and Van Lathen on to talk about college football's biggest story.

Todd McShay has a podcast with us, has a newsletter with us. Van is on the college football tailgate podcast that we have. But more importantly, it's ring our tailgate, by the way. More importantly is a huge LSU fan. So we talked about everything that went out with that story. So big action-pack podcast today. We're going to take a break. Bring in Pearl Jam and then Cousin South.

This episode of the Bill Simmons podcast is presented by State Farm. Having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm. It's like expecting a linebacker on the football field, but getting a line cook. Sure, they both can handle the pressure when it starts heating up, but only one is stopping a touchdown. You wouldn't settle for just anything for your team, so don't settle for just any insurance when it comes to get and help you need. State Farm is the real deal. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. All right, we're recording right after Broncos,

Sunday night, 9 o'clock, we didn't go live tonight. Really fun overtime game. The rare team covers in overtime, but doesn't win. Do you like the overtime rule, Sal? I've asked you this now three times. It felt like they let, it felt like they let Denver score so they could get the ball back because there's no urgency to stop anybody. It's just like, yeah, yeah, run it in.

We don't really care. They get the ball back. I don't know. There's something I don't like about it. Well, it's something I don't like either. This is the best we've had it in years. I don't like that the team, I think, I think Torrico said seven out of the 11 teams that won the coin toss, chose to go on defense first, and it's always the same thing.

Your defense is exhausted. Remember, you won a Super Bowl like that. You would definitely take the ball. You want to give your defense a little, a few extra minutes, and it almost cost them. I guess it didn't matter, but that's one thing I would do. I don't mind it. I like, it forced them to go for two at the end, right? Because then that was exciting. That gave us an exciting ending, because otherwise it's Denver with almost three minutes to get down the field to kick a field goal. How about this? No PATs in overtime.

Just touchdown two pointers. That's it. Okay. Right? So if Denver scores, they go up six, they have to go for two. I think that would have been more fun. That's fine. Well, that was a big win for Denver.

It could be because the Pats are big favorites against the Giants tomorrow. Although I think both of us probably like the Giants a little bit as an underdog. But assuming the Pats win will be in a two-way tie for the one seed, I'm going to give you a list of craziest playoff developments. We can come back and talk about that game in a second. but would you go with the pats and bears are tied for one seeds right now would you go the a fc south is completely wide open with three possible playoff teams the chiefs are two games back for a wild card your cowboys have a chance not only to make the playoffs but to win the nfc east what or would you go that seven and ten might win the afc north and somehow the bengals are still alive out of those five things what's the most improbable to you So, Bill, they're so close.

They really are just so close. I think I'm going to go with the first one. And I think Fandall agrees with me that the Bears being a number one seed, and yet they are seventh in the NFC, odds-wise, to win the conference. Yeah. Yeah. So I think I got some backing there. But they're all really freaky, really, really stupid year.

Well, it's funny because next week, which we'll do guest the lines later, week 14 is incredible. It's like the best slate. It's like huge playoff implications, some teams that, including the Cheaps, who actually have to win now, they can't fuck around anymore. But there was some good stuff this week. Thursday was great. Thursday was probably, I think, the best start to finish Thanksgiving football day, unless you were a Ravens fan.

But just the first two games were awesome. Usually on the West Coast, we're eating during the second game. That game, I didn't even feel like I caught all of it. I'm sure you did. If you're in the East Coast, you're watching during the first game. And then Burrow had this magical comeback through his hat back in the ring. But can you remember three better Thanksgiving games? No, and I was worried.

It's funny two weeks ago, I was like, oh, my stupid Cowboys ruined this just beautiful slate they put forward for us. And then Cowboys won last week, beat the Eagles, KC won, and probably in the fourth quarter against the Colts. It was like, this was set up perfectly. No, it was great. I wish I had won money. I couldn't celebrate too long from the Cowboys because I had those. effing Ravens on a teaser and every teaser. So that

was that. Well, we got to do it. We got to talk about it. America wants to know. What is it? The Cowboys are like good. You might be a real playoff team. You have a chance to catch this I don't know how you would describe

this Eagles team. Their fans hate them. They're an absolute eyesore to watch. Their defense, which we were praising two weeks ago in this podcast, seems like it's gone sideways, I don't understand what's happening with them at all. There was some good videos over the weekend of just like Jalen Hertz, mechanic stuff, quarterback receivers on the wrong pages.

They just seem like a mess. I thought they're going to fire their offensive coordinator yesterday. They didn't. But your team, you have two of the best seven receivers in the league? Okay. Yeah. Two of the best eight? Two of the best six?

whatever the list is. Both of those guys are on. I mean, Jefferson, I don't know what these guys do anymore. No, it's great. It's very exciting. I wouldn't want to play this offense if I were any other team, right? The defense is coming alive. Quinn and Williams already like three times as many pressures as he had with the Jets.

He's awakened. Yes. And yet, emotionally, I still am pissed at them that they lost to Arizona. You know, like I'll get over that in like three weeks. But I'm really pumped about it. It made Thanksgiving fun. The problem is we have another elimination game Thursday against Detroit, right? And maybe for them too.

So do I think it's impossible? I think plus $6.50 to win the division would be the route to take. I don't think it's likely, although I wouldn't mind chasing the team whose fans are calling for Tanna McKee to jump in there for J.O. and Hearst, right? I mean, that's a real thing. Yeah, I did wonder at halftime if he just came out for the second half. how the crowd would have reacted, but I don't think they would have been upset.

We have three, nine and three teams in the NFC. We affiliate eight and four, Green Bay, three and one, San Frans at eight and four. And then seven and five, seven and five,

Tampa, Detroit. Seven and six, Carolina, your team's six, five, and one. Ten, six, and one. Did you say San Fram was eight? San Frans.

San Frans, nine and four. Nine and four. Yeah, yeah. Ten, six, and one. Is that? What, the seventh seed, maybe? Or you have to actually win the division, you think? I'm looking at San Francisco.

They have nine wins, right? So, and still with the Titans and home for the Bears and Seahawks and at the Colts. I think they get to 11. I think the Seahawks get to 11. They have nine. So then there's one more wild card team. I can see tennis, San Francisco losing those last three personally. Really?

Really? So just 10 and seven. Yeah. I did. I know you had Cleveland. You were very upset with the coach there. What did he do? do. Well, that was the dumbest thing we saw today and maybe all month and maybe all season.

It's a 10-A game. Yeah. The weather's horrible. Your offense sucks. You're on your own 33. It's fourth and one. You've the wind at your back. The wind's about to change in five minutes. The Niners have done nothing. They've put together no long drives the whole game. Just fucking punt the ball. Put the ball. Stay up to. Your defense is awesome. Make your defense make a play. Try to pin them in their own 15 and they freaking go for it. I did not think they were going to get it. They did not get it because they had to do this new thing, this

epidemic that we have now with the push, not running it with the quarterback and it feels like it's a 50% chance it's going to go horribly. How many times does the guy either fumble it or fuck it up or like it just, we went from this play that we were having meetings for it to

try to figure out we have to stop this. It's ruining football to now I don't think it's ever going to work. The Eagles finally lost on it on Friday. But, anyway, that was the dumbest thing I saw today or this month. That was bad. I almost think, is it a clause in these coaches' contracts where they get fired for punting on fourth and one, no matter where they are on the field? You have the wind.

It was a 25-mile-an-hour win. Yeah. And your defense allowed, what, 250 yards? Like, it was definitely a winnable game for sure. It wasn't. Yeah, that was a field position. Let's not fuck around. We should try to win this game 11 to 10.

Yeah. And also, San Francisco takes care of what we're talking about their playoff hopes. They kind of just take care of business. those games too they do they they you know they always get the special teams play but the browns they played all the hits gave up a big kick return their punter punt return guy he he muffed one they had a kick returner after a touchdown just catch the ball and go out of bounds on his own six haven't seen that all season so uh stefansky i'm not positive what this guy brings to the table i know he won coach of the year but i know the browns fans it's a very polarizing topic with them

I don't understand anything I watched from that today. But the bigger point is, I know the Niners won convincingly, but I thought that Browns really handed them some stuff. And I think you can move the ball on them. I thought Purdy was good today. I got to give him credit. I thought he had a good game. He was nifty.

He made some good plays. And they really like, look, you could love Shador all you want and hope that he's great, but you're going to know how to play him, right? And so he was thrown underneath a lot. And really the best was him running for five. yards and sliding on fourth and 26 to end the game. He's like, I'm good. Yeah, we're going to stay safe for next week.

He wasn't a first, second, third, or fourth round pick, maybe. If you look at the NFC, you have to grab somebody's spot. So unless you take Philly's spot, Philly's eight and four, and you're a game and a halfback. Yeah, well, that's what I'm saying. It's got to be Philly. You would need either Green Bay or San Francisco to Crater. I mean, the Browns go at Green Bay, home Cleveland, home Green Bay. Bay at San Francisco home, Detroit.

The Brown, the San Francisco? I'm sorry, the Bears. Oh, the Bears, yeah. So, yeah, maybe they can go one and four on those, but it feels like they're getting better, not worse. Yeah, I guess statistically, we would have wanted the Eagles to win that game. It would have increased our playoff chances, right?

The Bears just staying at eight wins, but I didn't have it in me to root for the Eagles at all. It's funny. Some of these teams. It's fine. Some of these teams getting better as the year goes along because the season is 100 weeks long. The Bears who were 22nd in DVOA heading to that game

and had a bunch of either-or wins and just seemed like this year's horseshoe up the ass team. They killed the Eagles. They did. They absolutely bully-balled them, ran the ball down their throats. Caleb did not play well, I didn't think, but he had a couple good scrambles,

and he made one big touchdown pass. Their defense was good enough. their offensive line, their running game. Like, it's a team that felt very wintry. It felt like you could see them in January being kind of a problem. I thought that was an awesome way. And I have a few Bears fans of my life as to you. And it was the first time that they were like, wow, that was like a real football win

and capped off with our guy, Ben Johnson, just going nuts in the post game and taking his shirt off. It's tough when you take your shirt off because where do you go from there? The pants are expected next, right? Like, what's he going to do? Yeah, that would have saved. I personally would have saved it for wild car. but I get it.

He was excited. Also, pretty jacked too, Ben Johnson. I know. Like that goes a little differently if it's Andy Reid, I feel like.

I love to, maybe Andy Reid's jacked. Wouldn't that be the most surprising? Ed, that's your surprising list. It would be good. Yeah. Yeah,

you're right. They completely bullied them at the line of the scrimmage, especially in the late third, early fourth quarter when you thought the Eagles might be able to get back in it. And then I don't,

like we said, like Hertz, I don't know, what's this guy legacy? I like, what does he, Like, he won two Super Bowls for them. He wasn't a Trent Delfort type where it was just like a long for the ride.

But you would also, you would think that'd be enough to include him in the top five quarterbacks. And we never put him in there. It was always been Borough, Mahomes, Alan, Lamar, right? I don't know what order. But it's very strange how he's going to be remembered. There's like a lack of urgency slash personality of their offense. And now that Barkley doesn't look like. the Barclay from last year when you watch everything just seems really disjointed and you almost

want them to go either you know up 20 or down 20 for them to actually look like whoever they are i like when they play with pace i don't know they have all these weapons like did goddard play on friday i have no idea it seemed like he might have been out there i don't even know like that guy was a couple years ago we were talking about him as one of the best tight ends um i think a lot of these guys were emotional over the John Madden thing, which was somehow celebrated on every single game. Everybody had their own trophy. It's good. I mean, you and I loved Manon. Loved them, yeah. I think we're all good. We're all good. How many times can we pay tribute? These guys, like, what's going to be when Barclay dies? Is this what we're going to do with Barclay?

Sequin, he did. I think it was like week six. He died. No, Charles, you're talking about. He died of some fantasy guy. No, I know. And I even had a better appreciation of him when I watched the Cowboys documentary, how great those calls were. But you're giving these trophies to 24-year-olds, 25-year-olds, who didn't even know Madden and they know the game and that's it, you know? Yeah, you have to make up your Madden story.

What's your favorite Madden story? I remember one time the Big Dog and I were an elevator. And he told me to keep my head up. Jason Garrett pulled out a turkey leg. that he claims he has kept frozen since 1993. I'm calling bullshit on that. Yeah, I don't believe that's sorry. I'm sorry.

I didn't believe that's right. I need proof. Unwrap that thing. Well, so the bears who I think none of us believe then, they play at Green Bay next week and have a chance to put down Philly and Philly and then Green Bay and Green Bay next week. The way they run the ball,

I can't really not come out of it. You got two out of three weeks, I think, right? It's a shame we don't have the playing tournament. I guess we probably not a show. shame because it would be terrible. But if we had the playing in tournament, like in the NBA, I would really like your team. Like, oh, Dallas is a playing team, but watch out. If they can get in there, they can beat anybody.

Well, enjoy it. It starts Thursday against Detroit. That's a playing game. And then the next four are also playing games. Well, you know what's funny about your team and just, I was thinking about it today watching Josh Allen because I didn't think he was great today. And then in the second half picked up, but isn't, doesn't, maybe she's just getting older. Maybe he's taking some hits, but he had that thing going on for a couple years

where he seemed like that giant, that kid who was too big for like the ninth grade football game. Right. Just wreaking havoc. And he's just like, oh, man, this isn't fair. This guy's too big for the game. And he kind of played NFL quarterback like that. And I don't feel like he's been as physically imposing this year. And then the second half of the game today against the Steelers, he turned it up a little bit. But this was the year. I thought he was going to be the guy. like we were going to leave this season, but that's the best quarterback in the league. I feel like it's open right now.

It's a little, I'll make an analogy just for you. It's a little like the year when Hogan stepped away from WWB and they didn't, and they was like, ah, Lex Lugar. And Lex Lugar was the WWF title holder for like 10 months because they didn't really know who to put the belt on. I don't know who has the belt for QB right now.

So Mahomes is 6 and 6. Yeah. I don't know. Who is it? I mean, your guy's playing as well as anybody. I think so. So the only thing I'll caution, we talked about it last week, like the bills went six and O down the stretch two years ago

to make the playoffs. And that's what put Allen right back up there. Yeah, this is a game where I felt like Pittsburgh could have stayed in there, but they kept the bills hanging around. And then, like, I just don't get the bills to him. You like Pittsburgh as I did because the bills had two offensive linemen out, and the bills were laying eggs on the road. And then they set a record, a rushing record for opponents in Akersher and Hines,

three rivers, whatever, 249 yards with two offensive linemen out. I don't even know what I watched there. I think this Pittsburgh team is done. We talk about the bills, but I really think they are absolutely done. Cook was great. In Pittsburgh, this was the second time in three weeks.

The other time was the Chargers game when the quarterback played just, they had no chance. And whether he should have played or not, Rogers, I don't know. You know, he fell in that hand once, and then it seemed like he was going to, leave and come back, but he was a mess the whole game. Rudolph's not much better.

Offensibly, they're just impotent. Wasn't always the case. I thought they were going to be able to run the ball on Buffalo. Right. And they just couldn't. Then after the game, Rogers was taking shots at some of the receivers, but they're six and six, and they're in a death match

now with Baltimore, and maybe Sinti. Sincis's two back with five to go, and they play, they still get to play Baltimore once. They're at Buffalo next week. So that's it for them if they lose, right? So they have to hold Baltimore and Pittsburgh split,

because Baltimore and Pittsburgh played twice. So Baltimore and Pittsburgh split. And then both of them go one and two in the other three games, which I think is really conceivable, because Pittsburgh's other three are home Miami at Detroit, at Cleveland. Baltimore is at Cincinnati, home, New England, at Green Bay. And since he just has to run the slate, and they play at Buffalo, home Baltimore,

at Miami, home Arizona, home Cleveland, it's doable. Yeah. Again, at Buffalo, if they don't win that. This is, that doesn't matter if Pittsburgh Ravens split or what, but yeah. To go back to my Lex Lugar thing, Burrow could be the guy that kind of grabs it. Yeah. Down the stretch. I'm like, no, actually, I'm the best quarterback right now, but I don't know who it is.

I thought he was great, Burrow. And then I looked, do you seem like he was 24 for 46? That's what he was. No, he had the, he had the swagger, though, which I think when you've had Jake Browning and 45-year-old Joe Flacco for 10 weeks. And then Burrow comes in doing his Joe Burrow stuff. And they only, you know, no Higgins. It's really just chases.

Even the incompletions, I guess, well, ones that they go up for and they just didn't come down with. But everything seemed to be on the money. And everything seems great when you're going against Lamar, who I think he has seven fantasy points per week over the last three weeks. People are losing their minds. Well, this goes back to the best quarterback thing. Lamar would have been in that too.

and Lamar has looked like, you know, Aaron Brooks and the mid-90s in these games. You don't feel like he doesn't move the same way. He's clearly not 100%, not on the same. Whatever that offense they run is that, does not fit for whatever his talents are. The Henry thing is interesting. Like, he only had 10 carries in that game.

I thought they were going to just, you know, bully the Bengals with him and they didn't. I was trying to watch to see if I thought maybe he lost a step or not. I couldn't really tell, but his stats aren't the same. He had a thing where every other game, he was over 90 yards, and I try to catch him on this. This was the every other, and I thought this was, okay,

he's going to run it through Thursday night, beautiful. No, you're right, 10 carrots. Like, I don't know what that offense. And yet, like, Fandle loves them. They're minus 220 to win that division because Pittsburgh is so pathetic and since he got off to such a late start. Yeah, Pittsburgh, I think, kicked this one away. And maybe they weren't that good to begin with.

And I was thinking last year, Pittsburgh died as we hit the last third of the schedule, remember? They were like eight and two or something and they went backwards. But this was really it, right? This is like when Tomlin when they're yelling fire Tomlin and he says, I sympathize

with everyone's frustration. Does that mean when you sympathize, you agree with them that you should be fired? They have no identity on offense. Rogers, God bless him. He played with broken bones in his wrist, but then he ends up looking, his face of men. He looks like he bet against

himself to, on a strips and then didn't pay his Croatian pokey. Like he just got his ass beat in. It's like James Conn and the gambler. Yeah. He's got beat up. And then you got TJ Watt. Like it's like I think six games or seven games with no pressures. Like you paid these guys

a fortune on defense. They really, they just have nothing left on all like. They really, really, really blew it with first not taking dart. I think if you do that over again, you take him. But then, like, I don't know if Sanders is good, not good, mediocre, or whatever.

But once we get to the fourth round, that's somebody they probably should have taken. And, you know, Mason Rudolph comes out there. You just have no faith in anything with that dude. Let's take a break. And then I have a depressing question for you. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by Fandul. Hey, Missouri.

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See terms at sportsbook.fandul.com. This episode is brought to by Mikhailobaltra. The NBA Cup is back. It's sure to be thrilling as always. I think the one thing I was like with the NBA Cup, what team is going to come out of nowhere and kind of plant their flag and make us believe in them? going forward because a big spotlight, national TV, good crowds, who's going to kind of step up

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I'm going to give you Steelers fans, Ravens fans, Lions fans, or Chiefs fans. the case for the Steelers is like this is done there's like no light at the end of the tunnel even if you somehow sneak out the division what's going to happen you're going to win multiple playoff games that's not happening and then what does your long-term future look like you don't know who your coach is going to be or your QB Ravens you had this first half of the 2020s window

with Lamar that you didn't even get to a Super Bowl I don't even know if you want to keep the coach if you're them You went all in on this Derek Henry move. Lamar, where is that heading? And did you just miss your window? Lions fans, those last two years were your window. You had all these injuries last year. It didn't happen.

And now you just moved into the back of the pack. And I don't know if you're coming, you're leapfrogging. You're probably not even making the playoffs. Then the Chiefs fans, it felt like you were headed for a three-peat. Mahomes was in the goat conversation. you're six and six, your two games behind the last wildcard spot, you might miss the

playoffs when your guy was healthy the whole year, which has never happened with Brady, ever, when at any point of when he was actually Brady. I know, you like throwing that in there, yeah. Yeah, I'm going to mention that every time. So who's the most depressed of those four, Steelers, Ravens, Lions Chiefs? This is easy for me. I mean, unless you're like a 25-year-old Steelers fan, you've had history, you've had, you know, I'm going to count that, right?

I'm going to count that for the Ravens. You've seen playoff games. The Chiefs, forget it. you've won Super Bowls. If you're saying looking forward, yeah, these teams all kind of might be done, but the Lions, the Lions, because they never got over the hump.

They had the great coach that everybody wanted, Dan Campbell, who I'm not sure is the right fit now anymore. You know, you had the excuse last year, where you had like 20 guys on IR, 16 of them were on defense. Oh, our defense is going to be back. They were miserable against the Packers, just miserable. And you got the two fastest guys on the planet,

and you can't figure out how to score 30 points a game. You're stuck with like 17, midway through the fort. So I think they're a head scratcher of a team. I'm most disappointed in them because I had money on their futures. But yeah, I think, I don't know, which one do you go with? I mean, the Packers are biting more kneecaps than the Lions. I'll tell you that.

The Chiefs fans, at least they can point to the Super Bowls and you can talk yourself in 100 excuses. We had Brady seasons like that where the team didn't have it and you just kind of regroup and retool. Ravens fans is a tough one. Because you never really had your moment with Lamar in the playoffs. Yeah, you know. That's true.

You didn't have one postseason. You're like, well, like even Buffalo, they got close with Alan, where Alan actually 13 seconds came. Alan came through with his part. And then the defense blew it. They had things to point to where they were like, well, yeah, yeah, but we didn't win, but we at least had this. The Ravens is just like a kick in the nuts every year in the postseason.

And now it looks like they're going to win the division. by going eight and nine. I think that's pretty ignominious. But I think I agree with you on the Lions fans because it felt like a week ago they were the next hot team. And now it just feels like it's over. And then on top of it,

this Wonderkin offensive coordinator dude they had that sometimes those guys leave and then they suck his head coaches, but it actually seems like he's really good. And that was a big part of your success, which I don't, there's not a lot of parallels for that where you had this awesome. some offense and I was sorry, well, who gets it?

But then you see him in the Bears like doing this with a quarterback that really only completes 47, 48% of his passes, right? And he's just kind of figured out how to keep them good. I think I'd be the most bummed out if I was the Lions fan. Yeah, I think the worst move Campbell made this year is admitting that he's calling the plays. All right, man, you got the best in the world. You're calling the plays. That should last for more than one week, the success rate.

And then, yeah, you're right. I mean, you lose too many coordinators. That's the problem. But to me, I actually thought the offense, I think golf was terrible on Thursday. I was disappointed in that defense. They just could not get to him. Like, it was ballsy, ballsy moves by LaFleur going for it on fourth and six

and pretending to go for it and then calling a timeout. Like, all right, they're going to kick here. I'm like, oh, my God, they are going for it. And they just put the game away. They're like, we don't care. We're better than you. Yeah, I was really worried about them without craft, but, you know, they were getting it done.

So to make the playoffs, just to put a bow in this, Ravens are still minus 220 to make the playoffs, which you mentioned. Casey was even two hours ago. Now in Fando, it's like plus 104. Detroit's plus 120, and the Steelers are now plus 250. And they were in, I mean, think of the position they were in. What were they, four and two or five in one, whatever they were. And the Ravens were one and four with limping around Lamar.

Like, they had a three game lead over them. You and I needed therapy. They were one in five, and Fandall had them as a slight underdog. Like, what are we missing here? What is going on? Next time we know, just bet on it. Then you have the Jags minus 450 to make the playoffs, which I think is insane. I looked at their schedule.

I know they have wins, but I still don't trust them. Colts minus 300, Texas is minus 140, and the chargers are minus 162. The interesting thing about the Chiefs, I actually think their odds should be a lot worse to make the playoffs. Because they lost to Jacksonville, the Chargers, and Buffalo, three of the teams that they would potentially be in like a two-way tie, three-way tie, four-way tie for the six-seed, seven-seat, whatever. I don't really see a scenario where they make it unless they run the slate. And even if they run the slate, is that even going to be enough?

It really might not be. And, yeah, like you said, the lose those tiebreakers. I mean, we have so many elimination games next week. We have Detroit, Dallas. We have Houston, Casey, which is a night game. Cincinnati will be eliminated if they lose to Buffalo. It's a lot of fun. Then you have all that AFC South mess ahead of you.

But I think everyone's afraid to bet against the Chiefs, but they know that plus number is insane for them to make the playoffs at this point. It's the way they're playing. Advanced metrics heading into this week, they were fifth DVOA. Yeah. They're playing two of the best defenses in their last five, Houston and Denver, but both of those are home. Denver might not even care at that point,

though they'll have the division locked up. They'll only care about one versus two. Then they have at Tennessee at Vegas, which is two easy wins, but you look at their losses, Sal, they've lost to the Chargers, Eagles, Jags, Bills, Broncos, and Cowboys. So six like playoff or borderline playoff teams,

and they've only beaten Baltimore or Detroit in Indianapolis. So they're three and six against good. teams, which to me is a sign you're not good. And the one-score games, too. Complete 180 from last year where I think they went 11-0 in one-score games. They won what was, oh, I guess the Colts was a one-score game. But aside from that, just loss after loss after loss.

As opposed to Houston, who's seven and five, who didn't have their starting quarterback for three weeks at one point, they have four losses to the Rams, Tampa, Seattle, and Denver. Not bad. I mean, those are three of the six. best teams in the league and Tampa. But they have wins against now, Baltimore, San Francisco, Jacksonville, Houston, Buffalo, and Indie. So they played 10 playoff teams, basically.

And they're six and four. And I thought they had a really good win, which I want to talk about right now with that Indianapolis game. That once again, that Damiq O'Ryan's, he had another game management thing where they're up for. And I don't know, the announcers were like, oh, interesting, he's going for it here. And it's like, kick a field goal.

You go up seven. You've stopped these guys all game. Daniel Jones can't move. These guys, oh, the analytics say this. It's like, read the game sometimes. You go up seven. You're probably winning the game. I don't think the Colts are going all the way down the field.

All of a sudden, they're on their heels, but they ended up winning that one. But did you watch that whole game? Yeah, well, that was the most fascinating game. You're going to laugh at me. I know you're all over Houston, and you saw Houston's promising ending before a lot of us. but Indy was my best bet. Like, I thought... Did you know Jones was that compromise, though?

Yeah, I thought he was, but I'm like... And then I looked at like, Jonathan Taylor's had amazing games against Houston. Like, an 188-yard game like last year against them. Is it four over one? Like, that's it. They're just going to figure out the game plan. Although I didn't think it would be that Daniel Jones

couldn't take off once ever, right? I might have gone against it that way. So you had the better team. I got it wrong. Sauce being out early. might have made things different. That wasn't great. And also it might have been different

if the refs recognized what a missed extra point looked like. Our friend Adam Carolla is right. Just extend the post to the moon. Who cares? It's fine. Some laser beam or something. There's got to be some way to improve that.

So Houston had... They're definitely not the same without a running quarterback. Indy had the ball for 25 minutes. There's three for 10 on a third down. Houston to close the game out. They have a third and one and a fourth and one and they do the thing

where they just run the ball up the middle even though they can't really run the ball when you know they're going to actually run the ball but then they still snuck the game out. I think Houston's good. Yeah. Like when I think about that, I'm in that mode now,

thinking of the pads, playoff opponents. Houston's a nightmare matchup. Their defense is that Will Anderson is in the running for best defensive player I've watched week to week this year. Definitely. You know who's actually in there is Crosby?

Crosby's unbelievable in these Raider games. He's got 10 unbelievable plays during these and nobody else on his team is good. But I'm really afraid of that defense and they can run the ball just enough. Collins is good. Stroud, I'm not a huge fan of, but he'll make a play every once in a while.

And really their biggest thing that would worry me if I was a Texan fan is the game management. stuff. But I think they're better than seven and five. I think if you're the chiefs this week, would you rather play Houston, Jacksonville, or Indianapolis? I think for sure. Houston's my third choice out of that. Even though they lost to Jacksonville. Definitely Jacksonville, definitely the Colts who they beat, whatever. Houston, you don't want to go up

and take chances against that defense right now. Well, it's funny when we talk before the year and we're figuring out the futures, which I don't think we did that well on the 32 overrunners, but I think our locks were pretty good this year. Do you want to know what we are right now? We're probably somewhere around 500 or a little better, I would guess. Chris Haynes, a good guy, keeps track for us. And that's all he does. He has no job other than to keep track of these stats.

Yeah, yeah, we're not going to pay him or anything. But you're 6 and 6, I'm 7 and 5. We both had New England over, Seattle, over Washington under, mini under. You had CINC under and Chicago over. I had Casey and Baltimore under and Jacksonville. We hit Denver today, right? Denver was 9.5.

Oh, okay, so that just went final, right? Yeah. So that one, we both had that, yep. But I think of the ones that we like the most, I think we were on the right side with those. Yeah. Denver, Patriots. But the one, the division that we just...

Seattle. Yeah, Seattle was another one. Washington Under. I like Chicago. The division we couldn't figure out was that AFC South. Right. It was like, I don't want to take Houston. Please tell me what other team to take.

We hated the other teams. You kind of like Jacksonville? Yeah, that's who I had to win it. I don't know. I want to give them more credit than we normally do, but they also have the benefit of having the worst team, maybe the decade in that division. It's just an automatic two wins against Tennessee.

Right. I mean, good God. Well, 253. Was that the final today? They took a lead early, which you have to do. And then it just unfolded like every Tennessee game this year, except Tennessee never had, like, the two late touchdowns to make the score respectable. Who, if I gave you cowboy fans, panther fans, or Bengals fans,

who should be the most irrationally excited now out of those three? Cowboys, Panthers, or Bengals? Irrationally excited means the door's going to get slammed on their fingers in a minute. Just out of your mind tomorrow morning, they're at work. All they're talking about is the team. Let it be Panthers. Let it be the Panthers. Yeah, let them think they have a chance.

that's fine. 10 and a half point underdogs today at home. You had the Rams in a couple part of this. Yeah, it's funny. You pointed it out immediately like after the first staff

and pick your profile. You're like, oh, the Rams, I know, I'm pretty, I'm pretty readable. You had college football, boxing,

there was some MBA. They just fit your profile and throw it there. You said, say goodbye to Salis three team teasers as soon as Stafford through that first interception. He didn't look good early,

but that defense was, immediately. That defense was soft. That was the thing. And I do, We believe in trap games. Like it's, you know, not enough to skip a three-team teaser with them. But they went from Seattle and Tampa at home, big wins going out east.

We saw the Chargers do this. In Jacksonville, they get smoked. We should look for this. West Coast teams going east. I don't think it's paying off. But Bryce with three touchdown passes and like 164 yards rushing. They out physical, the Rams reminded me of what Chicago did with Philly the other day. Bryce was legitimately solid in that game.

And he's been up and down, and there's been referendums on him all year on whether they should extend him. Can he actually be the quarterback? They're just the zigzag team. They're like, we always talk about 70s heavyweights when we talk about how we think of these teams. They're like the Ken Norton. They might get knocked out. They might knock somebody out. You just don't know.

Week to week, I have no idea what to expect with them. You catch them on the right week. They're pounding the ball with the running game. Bryce is running around. McMillan looks like that might have been a really good pick for them. I was a little nervous about it, but apparently that was the right one.

But yeah, there's seven and six. Look at their last eight. It just zigzags. It makes no sense that wins and losses. It really doesn't. But I say irrationally because they're plus 460 to win the division. I think plus 4.10 to make the playoffs.

They're four left. They're two against Tampa at New Orleans and versus Seattle. So you expect them to sweep Tampa? I don't think it's in the cards there. So their best wins. They beat Dallas, Green Bay, and the Rams. Oh, Jesus.

They lost to New England, Buffalo, and the Niners. They were 27th of DVOA heading into today. I mean, that was the biggest upside of the season, I think. There were other bigger point spread ones. Like, we had like a 13 and a half. What was the biggest one this year? Who was it? There was a bigger point spread upset.

Buffalo was to Miami, Buffalo. Buffalo, Miami. Amy, I think, might have been bigger. But I thought this was the most important upset. It changed the NFC. Like, it knocked the Rams down. Now all these teams have a chance for the one seed. It kept the NFC South interesting because I assume Tampa is going to beat New Orleans next week.

Although, Shuck looked good today. Did you see that game? He did. I really didn't see much of it. I bet him to throw an interception. He did. And I just, like, turned it aside. I know it was a bad beat.

I know they had the two. point conversion run back. That was bad. Carolina just has to stay within a game at Tampa because they play in week 16 and week 18. Yeah. And then Tampa has Miami and week 17 at Miami, which is no longer an easy game.

Miami's five. Miami's five and seven though. They're very weird. Like you almost immediately knew that's how that game was going to go. They were going to let Arizona back into it. And I guess the best thing that we could say about him is like Bucky Irving's back, right? So maybe the offense picks up.

but Baker does look like Godwin was back too. Supposed McMillan's coming back. Baker didn't look 100% to me, but whatever. Stafford's MVP case got a little wobbly today. Yep. The Panthers, we were ready to cross them off. Can't cross them off. I think we can cross on five teams next week.

It's going to be a cross-off. Yeah, next week's a cross-off. Better buy some new Bix. I wrote down on my notes for Tampa. I've never seen anyone try harder to host the Shaky's game than Tampa. Even today with Arizona, they were just testing. They were like, we can't beat them too convincingly.

We got to let them hang around. What was that, 2017? Final. It's so funny. I was thinking that about Houston. I wrote the same thing down. I was like, no one's still in our Shakey's game, not just yet, because they were usually the home team.

They were the match job. Houston might be too entertaining for the Shaky's game. Yeah, they might be. Their defense is fun. One thing with the Jags, they got banged up today. They lost their left tackle. concussed, so that means he's probably almost definitely not playing next week.

Parker Washington got hurt. I think they're down like five or six starters now. So even though their odds are pretty good for the playoffs, I'm still a little dubious. They're at Indianapolis. They're playing the Jets who've been good now for five weeks for a bad team. At Denver, at Indie home, Tennessee.

If I had to pick with those odds, like a team to short, I think I would pick the Jags. And the Colts would be second. Because I thought Dimes could have moved today. Did you say $4.50 for the playoffs for Jacksonville? Yeah, minus $4.50. 480. I'm saying, wow, that's, wow. Yeah, that's high.

That's too high. Well, then the other one is the Chargers. Herbert broke his left hand today, but apparently he's going to play next week. He wants, so he gets the extra day. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't bode well for these guys playing with busted up bones like Daniel Jones and Aaron Rogers, but he is a gamer, Herbert.

I had to watch that entire game, as did you, I'm sure, because there's only three late games. Granted, we had three Thanksgiving games and a Friday game and then a Sunday night game. Yeah. But it meant that we had to watch Chargers, Raiders, and they fired their offensive coordinator last week. Right.

Added a new one. I didn't really notice any difference. It just seemed like when in doubt, just try to throw it through Brock Bowers and hope it catches it. The Chargers, the only interesting thing out of that game for me is just Kamani Vidal. Yeah.

a fantasy football playoffs, just wildcard. Who was it last year? Was it Chuba Hubbard? Chuba Hubbard, sure. He was the wild card last year. It feels like Vidal's going to be the guy. He's like a poor man's Jamir Gibbs, I think, at this point, right?

Yeah, I think he's won that job. Hampton had a setback, so that could be the one. And then we didn't talk about, we didn't talk about Prasmer. Frosborough almost went full the loam He had four turnovers He was so close I think You know, I like them

And I like these guys coming on And I like did research on him And his girlfriend And they met and got like Oh, this is interesting But it's like a drunk rich dude Showing up at a poker game And he plays recklessly

And you know it from the start You're like, yeah, come on Just sit down, come on Let's take your money Meet Chelsea Phillips But that And here's my friend, Damon Jones. Can you read the back of these cards?

Good. Neither can I. That pick six was magical. That was just a play of the year. Was there a better play this year? I don't know. That was really great. And you know, you talk about like, oh, they used all the good games for Thursday and Friday.

That pick six made the whole Sunday worthwhile. And I think we saw like four of the best catches we'll ever see today. Oh, yeah. Just like Bowers and Trailing Burks and Nakua and even the interception. that the charges made on Gino the first time. Well, I was in the fantasy that I truly care about, our knockout league, which I haven't won since 2007. And the website has a list of all the champions.

In 2007, like, there's now people who can serve in the military who are born after I last one. It's really embarrassing. You've done a lot. You've made thousands of dollars since 2007. It's a long time. And I had bad luck this year because I lost Evans and Tyreek, but I was kind of crawling my way back in for a playoff spot.

And I really needed the Seahawks defense and Myers today in these late games. Oh, my God. So every time Brasmer is going back to pass him, like, throw us one, throw us one. And he did. He, he, I got a pick six. I got all these sacks. The Seahawks defense in our league had 29 points. So we just have a normal scoring league.

Myers and the Seahawks must have had 50 for you. Yeah, it had 48 points. Myriss had 19 points. That's crazy. The Seahawks defense had 29. And I beat our friend the T-Man, the defending champ, who I think is now out. And he's out because the Seahawks' defense and kicker had 48 points. Right.

I think he has the most points. See, I'm in the mode. Like, I think a shutout should be like 20 points. There's like five shutouts a year. Yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you. There are just too many bad quarterbacks, though, to kind of reward it is the other thing. I mean, you get a Brosmer in there.

It's just a gift. But there you're right. regular defense anyway, right? It's not like you picked them up. Right. Well, there was an exciting moment at the end. They punted the Seahawks. It's 26-0.0 with like a minute left. And they punted and they downed it on the two. I said, come on. Let for us for it. Let him quote one more time. He was really bad.

They're the first team to have two quarterbacks throw a pick six in their first start in the same year. Is that true? That's very good. Yep. I was waiting for an hour. for the cut of Justin Jefferson sitting sadly by himself and they finally gave it it was a new one. He wasn't even on a bench. He was like sitting on the Gatorade buckets with his

helmet off just trying to figure out, just trying to deconstruct what's happened in his life. I felt bad for him. I think he's got to fake a calf strain. He didn't speak for the first time since 2022 after the game they said. Yeah. Because he could actually get really hurt with some of these

passes that these guys throw because they're sailing them high right into traffic. But I think cap strain, what are they going to do? Like, cap strain seems like the injury you would fake. Sure. Like, no, not that, because then everyone's so afraid of the Achilles tear. Okay, so we have, we're new guest alliance, unless there's anything else you want to hit. I'm trying to think.

Because we can hit the other stuff when we do guess lines. Let me just say real quick with the Jets thing. Like the Jets beat Atlanta and, you know, I just root for your team. Just root for your team. It's good when your team wins. I mean, you could be a tank tool. I know you're a tank tool in the NBA, but just root for your team.

Don't worry about these dumb draft picks. Tom Brady was a sixth round pick. The Mavs got the number one pick last year in hoops. Tanking doesn't really work. Once in a while, you'll get a Wembe, but in general, pull for your freaking tip. Stop rooting for faceless draft picks, right? You got 50,000 fans risking pneumonia at MetLife.

You're root for your team to do good. Aaron Glenn gives a game ball to Nick. folk, who he was a teammate of with Dallas, Ty Taylor's going nuts. Root for your damn team. Don't worry about the draft picks. I'm sick of it, Simmons. Don't you clap?

You do the same thing. You're a tank tool. I would have rooted for the Jets this year because there's no consensus number one pick. Who am I rooting for the last year was different. Well, and I think two years ago was different too. Last year, Cooper Flagg was consensus, right? I'm saying for the football.

No, I get it. I'm just saying it. It doesn't always work your way anyway. Anyway, whatever. Just root for your team. Listen, we're never going to agree on this. I respect your position. This seller-dweller positioning bullshit.

You're a tank tool, Simmons. If you want a tank, I have a suggestion. Hire Rahim Morris. He is now 33 and 55. There's only three coaches in the history of football who've done worse with 55 losses. Romeo Cornell was 32 and 63. Walt Kiesling was 30 and 55.

And Joe Buegel was 25 and 56. He is in the Mount Rushmore of terrible 55 losses and overcoaches. There's no one who's been labeled the tanker, right? We haven't had a coach that we've labeled. There should be a tank. We have a clapper. We have the DJ. Well, the sad thing is they can't tank because the Rams have their pick,

which is like the stealth version of OKC having the Mavericks pick. You see what I mean, you see what I mean thinking about all this stuff all the time? Just go out. I'd be thinking about if I was a Rams fan. That might be like the fifth pick. Listen, it's the same shit every week. They do dumb stuff. They have special teams, fuck up.

Today they add another one. Like, they always shoot themselves in the foot. If it's a close game at the end, you know they're going to blow it. And, you know, they're all in with Pennex and cousins. And they have no pick next year. And they're, what are they, four and eight now? Three and nine. Something terrible.

Four? Well, that's the other thing. The graphics, the Fox and CBS, they have to stop with this when they do the playoff picture. They'll still have in the hunt. Like in the hunt. Atlanta, four and eight. Like, San Francisco's 10. What are they hunting for? What are you hunt? Yeah. And they're in the hunt like I'm in the hunt for Michelle Pfeiffer. You know, they're hunting in garbage cans for food. Give me a break. Yeah. They're not in the hunt. Leave the graphics guy alone. We're going to take a break and then talk about a pretty awesome week 14 that includes Bears Packers, Steelers, Ravens, Colts Jags, all for first place, Cowboys Lions on Thursday Night and Texans Chiefs on Sunday night. Bill's bangles. It's all good. It's all coming next.

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Those fly financial advisors are like the world's best accountants, if account's pointing you to the nearest beach, save more, do more. Contact your travel advisor or visit sunwing.ca today. All right, Sal, guess the lines. won last week. I'm still winning for the season. I'm up a couple of games. You're like the Cowboys. You have a puncher's chance. Let's do it. And speaking to the Cowboys, your team is playing on Thursday night. Yeah. Lions Cowboys is, this is probably the best Thursday night game we've had for the stakes. We've got a good Thursday night matchups. This one's a great one.

Detroit, roller coaster ride with Frank Ragnow, who's going to come back to be their center. And the Lions are like, oh, Ragnow's back. And then he feels. It's physical. So now they have to look at the other center and be like, no, no, we still love you, though. Right. You're going to do great. Right, right, exactly.

Yeah. We're keeping you around. Yeah, I was thinking about that and like how, I'm like, oh, my God, that's a good, that's a smart thing to do. Sit out three quarters of the year and come back for when it matters. Yeah. And then he failed. I mean, I'd hate to say someone's, it's a fake diagnosis, even though we just did

that about Justin Jefferson, but you think the league is just like, No, no, no, we're not doing this anymore. Come on. Well, it hurts my Aaron Donald case for Aaron Donald coming back in, like, week 16. Just been like, hey, guys, I'm ready. The lions are going to be favored. It's either going to be two and a half or three. And I'm going to say lions in Detroit favored by two and a half.

Okay, good. That's what I said. It is three. Either one's fair, I think. We did Ringer 107. on a Tuesday, and I love the Cowboys against the Cheaps, and we ended up parlaying it with the Eagles money line.

I saw that. As a pick. Instead, it's just taking the points, and I have a lot of regrets. Same kind of thing. Three points, although they were home. Yeah, I don't know. The one that scares me, I actually think we have the better team right now,

but Dan Campbell hates us so much. He really does. Just despises the Cowboys. Maybe it doesn't matter. I think with these Thursday night games, we just have to remind ourselves over and over again that they don't make sense and they're not an accurate reflection

of what would happen on a normal Sunday. Right. So you just got to think of that. Like there's a chance where Pickens has 230 yards receiving. There's a snare of this game where Gibbs is 15 for 220 and then three for 90 receiving and just has like 40 fantasy points. There's a snare where golf just sucks

and has the golf face. I'm ready for anything. I can't wait. It's going to be a great game. So it's a loser leaves town match. For sure. No question, right? If the lions lose, I think they're done.

Well, they can't catch Detroit, Green Bay. Like now they, well, I mean, it wouldn't be a tie breaker anyway because they have a tie, an actual tie, Green Bay. But no, they can't lose for a while. They're in trouble. Well, can we safely say nine wins, nine wins, nine wins, eight wins, 8, 3 and 1, 9 wins, NFC South.

11 wins is the entry point for a wildcard spot. Oh, wow. Right? Not all three, I don't think. I think all three will have that one. I got Chicago at 9 and 3. I got Seattle at 9 and 3. And I have Green Bay at 8, 3 and 1

and San Francisco 9 and 4. It's going to be 11 wins. I guess you're right. Yeah, I've been saying it all. I just hadn't heard it like that. I just didn't think, sure Detroit was even going to get to 10. Cowboys at Rams, Steelers, at Vikings, at Bears. It's going to be tough.

Yeah, maybe it's not an official loser leaves town match because six losses can still get you there. Sounds better. We'll sell more tickets that way if we call that. Yeah, true. Maybe we'll make it a, what was the match after the first match in the trilogy, W.W.W. in the 80s. There's Steel Cage was the third match. First match was normal. Oh, like a Texas death match? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is like a Texas death match. No countout, no disqualification. Anything goes.

A lot of rumors that John Cena might be on the BS podcast this week. Is that right? Yeah, I've never had them. Yeah. Some rumor. See, I don't know if you would put that out there if it wasn't going to happen. It's heavy rumors. Heavy rumors.

Okay. All right. K-FaB might be. Look at that. Sunday Marquis, a lot of good choices. Yeah. But I think it's Packers Bears for the NF, NFC North, the history of the two teams, the fact that the bears are actually, like, kind of beloved in Chicago after that Eagles win. This might be an NFC title game.

Who the fuck knows? It's in Lambo, and I think this is my favorite game. and I'm putting it right in the Vegas zone. It's in Green Bay. I have Packers minus five and a half. Oh, wow. You nailed it. I said four and a half.

Also, Vegas Zone, but it is five and a half. Good job by you. So where does that end? I think that gets to six. What did the Eagles line do during the week? That ended at seven, right?

Straight seven. Yeah, we went up for a second. Yeah, I think if anything, it goes up. I think it ends up at six. I have a request for these two. teams, and you could join me in this.

Can we have a memorable game? Like, this is supposed to be the greatest rivalry in sports or top four. I saw a podcast like Al Michaels and Costas were talking about the best rivalries. And, oh, yes, this has to be it. I can't remember two great games out of it. I know if they played 200 times. Costas and Michael said Packers Bears was a great rivalry? It's a famous rivalry.

They've had no games. It was the Red Sox Yankees. I think they agreed on Red Sox Yankees. Carolina Duke Packers, Bears and what would the other one be? Tiger's Bears Bears. I'm spacing on the easy one.

The problem is the NFL has it's changes in like half decade cycles depending on who the quarterbacks are. It's not like when we were kids. But when we were kids like they were like real rivalries and they never changed,

it didn't really matter who the quarterbacks were. Now I feel like it just kind of moves around. What's your favorite? favorite Packer Bear game. I think the Monday night game where the guy jumped out of the stands to catch an extra point was a Packers Bear game.

Otherwise, I have no, and I know they made it to the NFC championship once. It was Cutler and he was hurt. Can't be the best rival. Rogers showing the crowd. I remember that. There was a Brett Far of one.

Was that who he played after? His dad died? See, I don't even know. It was on the Vikings. I don't know. I don't know if it could be best rivalry. It has to be memorable games. It can't just be Army-Navy.

God bless. I just don't think the bears have been good enough over the course of the last 50 years. 50 years, that's a lot. That's 100 games. When we were kids and we'd only get either two or three games, like the bears were, I never got to see Walter Payton. I'd barely even, unless it was a highlight, I'd never even knew what he did. No, that's true.

He wasn't on TV for eight years of my life. Yeah. three watchables, and they're all good ones. Colts at Jacksonville. I think this is going to, I have the Colts favorite. I think this ends up at three, but I went lower than that. I have Colts minus two and a half at Jacksonville. Damn.

I went the wrong way. I had the Jags minus one. It's in the Tick-Tac zone. They do have the Colts favor by one and a half, so you get it. The Jags are banged up. This left tackle, if they're not going to be able to block, I do think the Colts could pressure him. I guess so.

We can't bet this, right? I didn't like what I saw from dimes. No, nothing. Just stay away from this. In Lawrence, even when they're playing Tennessee and they're inside the 10, I just feel like he's going to throw a pick. Right.

It's like surprising when he completes a touchdown. Is this two in a row for the Jags? They're not going to win. I'm going to put a hat trick together. Oh. This has to be one of the biggest home games I've ever had. right yeah yeah no doubt raven's uh home for the steelers i put this in the vegas zone um i have the ravens by four and a half okay i add that too it is six and a half oh

and i like them i like them on a teaser the ravens are the steers the ravens i'm gonna do it again I'm going to do it again, Bill. Well, tomorrow have another 10 days since that Thursday night game. You might need 100, but yeah, a 10's good enough.

What would be the most shocking firing over the next 14 days that you would actually believe? Hmm. Could I talk you into whoever loses this game

the coach gets dismissed after the game as a possibility? No. they can't do that. You sure? Well,

the Steelers don't do that. They don't even fire coaches little in the middle of the year. Or it's announced he's leaving at the end of the year? Yeah, yeah. These are like two coaches

that, oh, I know. I can't say the fan bases are enthralled. That's rough. Maybe you firing House, was you counting that

for giving you bad 107 picks? The House had a good one last week. He saved his job. He had the Packers? Packers, yeah. Pushed the Packers hard. Yeah. Bills, by the way, I did watch the entire Sunday pregame show today.

House has this new tick that I hesitate to bring up, but I really enjoy it. House, when, you know, it's in a four box, if he gets really excited about a topic somebody else is talking about, he starts like, rocking, he starts like, do this in his seat, like he can't wait to talk. He's like a little kid. I really enjoyed the Sunday pregame show. Available on 29 Fandole channels across the across America. Well, that's just for crying out loud. The Ringer YouTube show.

We gave out winners left and right. No, that wasn't, that's not a tick. That's, um, we had him sit on a custom made toilet. He's still unloading from Thanksgiving. He's going to the bathroom. Yeah, it's Thanksgiving. It's rough. It's a rough weekend.

It's great. You think like playing poker with house, he gets a card. He likes, he just starts like moving around in his chair. Uh, this is a great game. I almost put this in the Sunday marquee, Bill's Bengals. in Buffalo and Joe Burrow it's just great to have them back

we needed all the fun quarterbacks we could get I put this in the Vegas zone bills minus five and a half oh come on I wanted to steal this from you I had five and a half also that's what it is

oh it's exactly five and a half so we have two Vegas Zone games already do you think that's too high there's no way you would take the bills under any circumstances I would probably do a version

on what I did with the Texans today the Bengals tease up over the double-digit number to 11.5, 10 and a half, somewhere in there, and then move the over down because I think this game won't points. I don't think you can make the over higher enough

for this game. They look so good, Cincinnati. They looked really good. They had it all together. Five turnovers. I thought he was moving great. Yeah. Because I thought that would be like a little,

oh, he can't have it. Didn't matter. Whatever they shot him up with, kudos to the doctor. Fairly watchable. I can't believe I put this in the fairly watchables but I'll explain after Seahawks at Atlanta Oh no

I'll make the case after we do the pick I have the Seahawks favored by four in Atlanta Oh wow That do you really think it's that watchable I said seven and a half it's eight and a half Oh okay Let me make sure Yeah eight and a half

Man I was either Dead on or within a half point, and then I missed that one about four and a half points. I thought it was watchable Seahawks defense against Kirk Cousins. Oh, I see. Oh, yeah, yeah. Are you going to win your last regular season fantasy game of the year walking away?

I'm just excited for that matchup for variety reasons. I said this morning the Falcons should win a lifetime achievement award for fishy lines. Just give it to them. Every single doesn't matter if it's cousins. Fishing ride. Panics. Desmond Ritter. Who cares?

This has trap game written all over it. Yeah. Next one, fairly watchable. It was Buck Saints. The only reason I say this is because I think the Saints are like pretty watchable as a bad team. They can move the ball. I don't mind watching the Saints. I have the exact.

I have the Bucks by eight and a half over the Saints in Tampa. It's seven and a half. Fuck. All right, we're tied. Seven and a half. I'm a little low. And then Rams Cardinals fairly watchable.

I don't understand the Brissette thing. He was so terrible for the Patriots last year. He was really awful. And now you watch him and he's pretty confident. And then I remember that our offensive line was like

an F minus, minus, minus. Right. So maybe if he has like a decent offensive line, it's okay. He found the home. Wilson's good. McBride's great, right? Yeah.

He's like a little pro. Harrison, I don't know, not completely sold on his work ethic. I think he had another injury today, but he'll be good, too. Rams in Arizona. I have them favored by eight and a half. All right.

I got this. It is, oh, no, we split it. I had eight. It's seven and a half. I get it. You get it.

Yeah. Good, good, good. Poop Fecta. You see so many teasers going through your head that you don't want to talk about right now. We have a couple of themes on bye, by the way, if you're wondering. Yeah. The listeners are wondering why, including my team.

Poop Factor Browns Titans in Cleveland. This is awful, and I can't wait to bet on it. I have Browns in the Vegas zone minus five and a half. No. I said three, and it's three and a half. Oh, that's too low. Do you think so? Yeah, I think the Brown's defense is good.

they just can't fall behind once they're behind by like ten it's the game's over you know there's any pride like cam ward like eff all these people who are putting shodora ahead of me you know i was the first pick i mean he was the first pick yeah yeah i'm going to show them why kind of thing they do suck though they are so bad vikings home for uh the washington commanders i would have said three seven hours ago, but I'm dropping that to two and a half, Minnesota, favored. Oh, I said Washington by one. I think it's Washington by one and a half, let's see.

Oh. Yeah. I mean, I think. Wow, I went in a tailspin. He should be back, Jaden Daniels, right? Really? Wasn't it going to be close to this week? Why are you bringing him back when you're three and nine?

Sit his ass down. Listen, I like the way they played. I need them to win. It's the perfect loss today. It's the Cowboys. Like, they played gutty. They played the Eagles twice, so I need them to be tough. What I don't need is, did you hear Collinsworth and Torrico pronounced Mariotta's name?

Marietta. Marietta. Marietta. For three, I had to turn it off like a half hour. I couldn't listen to the sound. I'm like, what is this? It's like they're showing off for their eighth grade Spanish teacher. He's been Marietta for 12 years in college and everything.

Mariota. And then sometimes they'd catch themselves and they'd go back to however everyone else says it. I didn't understand it at all. I was trying to ignore it, but then they kept doing it. So it's Washington favored by one and a half in Minnesota. Right. Jesus. Well, it's Brozmer again, right?

He's going to get points, that guy? I don't think. Washington's three and nine. You're going to be favored on the road? It's ridiculous. Braznor can play 100 games that he won't win one. I don't know. I think that's fair.

What did you make of the inverted Bo Nix performance today where instead of being bad for, instead of being the boot and rally bow, he was, he actually sucked you into thinking he was going to be good for all three hours. And then all of a sudden was booting in the fourth quarter. But then rallied in the O.T. Right. I didn't know what to make of it. I like it.

I mean, I think I had Washington as an upset and I took the points. so that that was a I was going to be a miserable way to lose but he threw his interception he got it out there right what was that third quarter yeah when he threw it right to the guy in the other team yeah

but um yeah we we needed our friend hench to win this week to stay alive and uh he had no targets with uh what's his name can't forget 14 you got knocked out of our guillotine league I know I got knocked out stinks

so now there's only only four left, right? You made the final four? Lewis has 10 bucks left. I have four bucks left. The other two teams have zero bucks left. So Lewis can just cherry pick. He can go,

I guess, five bucks on JSN, so he gets him. So he'd have, he could basically get the top two guys you have to shoot his wad, try to do it that way. I love the guillotine.

That's the best. I'm going to miss it. I wonder if there's a three-week guillotine. I can get into it. Dauphins at the Jets. Yeah. I went between Dolphins minus three

and dolphins minus three and a half back and forth for a solid 20 seconds and landed at dolphins. One of those is right. I landed at Dolphins minus three and a half. Oh. I said two and a half. It is three.

So we tie. Yeah. So Jets have won three of the last five, and the other two, they kind of hung around for a while. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Ty Tower is the guy, though. I feel like they have life with that guy, right? Yeah.

That offense, at least. It fools you on the small TV when you're not really concentrating. You're like, man, fields looks pretty good because you can't really see the numbers. That's, oh, that's Ty Taylor. Yeah, no, they're moving too fast down the field for it to be filled. That pass actually went to as receiver. Broncos are at Las Vegas, a truly terrible team. And I have the Broncos favored by eight and a half.

I said seven and it's seven to half. So I get that one. I like this. What's the score? Are you winning? You can't win this. One, two, three, four, five, six. Ten to six.

you're winning 10 to 6 Yeah I'm back I'm the Cowboys This is tough You are you're the Cowboys I wouldn't take 10 This is the 107 game right

From a few Thursdays ago It's going to be really hard Not to throw the Broncos Money line into five different bets And they'll have fans And everything else Yeah stupid Sunday night Chiefs

Home for the Texans dare I say a must-win game for the Chiefs great game and maybe also for the Texans I mean this really might be the loser leaves town match I don't think either team could lose this

I think it is I think this is that night we're going live after this yeah we're going live out next week we'll go live on YouTube I have Chiefs minus three you're going to get it I said four

it was four and a half it went to three and a half hmm I guess we split it we split that We split it. It doesn't matter. Monday night.

I think that's a really bad. Yeah. That's a bad spot for the Chiefs. I don't like that defense. They all are. That defense against the, you know, just hitting the shit out of Kelsey. Coming at Mahomes. I don't like, pussy, they can't really run the ball.

I don't like that spot. I mean, I'm sure that they probably very. rather play almost every other team, honestly. Monday night, Eagles, Chargers in Los Angeles. 60% Philly fans there. Although, if you're a Philly fan who lives in L.A., would you even want to go to that game?

I guess you want to be around other unhappy people? I don't know. Yeah, you just want to yell. Just to yell at your own team. Yeah, you have to. Start a couple fights in the concourse after. Yeah, just for Chant for Tanner McKee and then get out of there. I have the Eagles favored by minus two.

and a half. Yeah, you're going to get this. I went low. I said one and a half. It is three. All right. That's a win for the good guys. So we're eight and six for the season? Eight six. You still have a late. Okay. All right. I'll take that. I'll take that. I've got to look at my schedule the rest of the way. But, um, okay. What a game, a seven great games. Seven, like, meaningful and important and playoff worthy games out of the 14. Pretty good. Today's Parent Corner is presented by Uber Eats, Uber Eats that I used twice today. Let's be real.

Would it be game day without a spread of your favorite foods, pizza, burgers, burritos, you name it. Uber Eats is here to deliver it to you all season longer. In my case, today, a nice salad with a bunch of vegetables in it. I got my own salad. My way, we custom made our salads. That came. That was really good. You could eat that in the sauna?

No, I didn't eat the salad in the sauna. Oh, all right. I did wear my t-shirt in the sauna today. What do you have for parlor? Someone was asking me why you wear the t-shirt. It's one thing if you want to wipe your face with the t-shirt. If it's okay, you like the way the cloth feels, but why are you wearing it in the sauna?

Why you just bring it with you, put on your lap? I just think it's, like, first of all, you always have to think, like, if I'm going to die, how do I want to be found? Like, sauna is a place you could die. I just want to have a t-shirt if I'm slumped over I don't want to be like naked from the waist out Oh I see okay

Then if somebody comes in they don't realize I'm there Like who knows All right Okay so it kills a couple of birds there Yeah I like wiping my face with a t-shirt I'm not defending it I'm not fully admit it's probably pretty weird What do you have for Parenthorna?

All right so yeah no it's my favorite weekend I'm sure you feel the same way Everybody's home, football, eating, just. And then Friday might even be better than Thursday if you have nothing to do. Just veg out, right? And you don't have people. But anyway, we're watching this Cowboys game. And I think I told you a couple weeks ago, I found out from my barber who cuts everybody's hair in the family, that Harrison, my youngest, is becoming a Cowboys fan.

And I went and told them, I was like, you can't do this. I don't want this for you. You know, it's like he found, like, Dad's crack vial or something. I'm like, I don't want you anywhere near this shit. please don't do it. He's like, no, no, no. I watch the documentary with you. I think I like them. I like the history. I like this. And I'm like, don't do it. Fast forward to Thanksgiving. Chiefs Cowboys were sitting down. He's rooting for Dallas. First touchdown, Rishi Rice, and he cheers. And I was like, what the hell is that about? And he's like, well, I have him on my fantasy team. I'm like,

you're out. That's it. You can't do that. You're not doing that. He's like, what? I need this. I'm six and six or whatever. I have to well. Like, I don't care. You don't root. You don't root. You at least don't audibly root for the other team. And Archie's yelling at him. He's like, what are you crazy? You don't ever do that. Like, it almost spoiled like Thanksgiving. And Jack's laughing because his Steelers don't play until Sunday.

And he thinks this is all ridiculous anyway. So that was the first day. So your kids were deliberately defying you to try to get a reaction out of you on your favorite day of the year. I'd finally allow him to be a Cowboys fan against my better judgment or any judgment. And then he does this, where he's rooting for Rishi Rice. I'm like, you've got to stop this. This is stuff.

But this is fantasy. It's the most important thing for kids. Like, it just is. That's where we are in life. Real quick, my fourth son, our friend Brad, stays with me Thanksgiving weekend. So we had him. I know you're laughing already.

So he's a lunatic. He comes in just spinning around, just like a tornado. And he's making fun of the boys any chance he gets and telling me about 14 documentaries he's watched and makes you feel stupid. Like he's a lunatic, but he's also like really smart.

know this. He's well read. He's like, what about that LA Times article? You think they're going to lock up that sheriff? I'm like, uh, I don't know. And they'll tell you like 20 things about him. Like, so anyway, he loves ribs, right? So I found this upscale barbecue restaurant in the neighborhood, but you kind of have to dress up. So I gave him like clothes they could wear. And my son's Harrison and Jack come with us. And I go in there and he like, I was like, hey, this is like, you know, this is kind of a nice place. He's like, all right, all right. And he's like, he's giving himself a pep talk as he's entering the place.

He's like saying, walk like a human being, walk like a human being, walk like a human being. He's like, he's like, welcome, sir. So I was like, I just have to sit him down. I have to sit him down in a booth and he can't be on the outside. He's got to be on the inside. I have it all planned in my head, right? Because you have to, you have to trap him. Yes, exactly.

You have to kind of trap him in there. He's like a caged animal. So he's got the onion strings. He's got about 4,500 calories in his beard before the entree's even hit. And then come the ribs and just a few minutes in, it looks like he was dunked headfirst into a vat of sweet baby raised barbecue sauce, just like turned upside down and jumped in. So at one point, he decides he has to go to the bathroom. And he goes to clean up.

And he goes to walks to the bathroom and we're watching him and the kids are shaking their heads. And he slips on nothing. and runs his whole barbecue hand on the wall, which now resembles a crime scene. It looks like there's just blood everywhere. And he's embarrassed. And I'm not making this up. And he runs into the woman's bathroom.

Luckily, he figured it out right away. A lot of times he doesn't. And then he came out. And so that's the end of this. Like, I had to weigh over tip the wait staff. And then I sent them home today on an Uber at the end of the 1 o'clock games. And I guess it was an interesting. I have to look into this now. There was an incident with the Uber driver when I sent him home. Yeah, the guy wouldn't go around the construction and Brad was telling him. So I wish you could bet on Fandle how many points my Uber rating would go down when I put Brad in a sedan for an hour. But I'm saying at least two and a half point.

That's your second time this year where he's hurt your Uber rating. Yeah, I know. I know. I'll never learn. We just never learn. Anyway, that's my fourth song. So it's like in the horror movie when the detective comes the next day and they're looking at for blood splatter on the wall and they see a handprint. He slipped on nothing. It's going all the way down the wall. What is this? Wow. Circus clown. I don't say that sounds like he got away pretty okay. Yeah, I guess so.

From a night out with Brad at an upskill barbecue dinner. Yeah, that's true. We had, you know, Thanksgiving, I'm going to tell a story about my son, Murph, my five-year-old dog. Thanksgiving, biggest day of the year for him. My mom feeds him under the table, like food drop. people forget to close the garbage. And at some point, it's unclear, but the carcass of the turkey, he might have... Oh, no.

We're not sure what happened to it. It's just unclear. The garbage was open. It might have been thrown away. He might have gotten to it. What we did know happened for sure, because I saw it was my mom makes these, she calls them her Aunt Minnie's cookies, these Italian cookies. They're like powdered.

They're, she fries them. They're super salty. She probably made like 35 of them. That sounds amazing. We had all these pies and stuff. So there was probably at least 25 left. And I went back in the kitchen to get hot water and lemon. Murph's on the counter.

There's three cookies left. So now we're like, and we don't know what else he's eaten. And so Thursday night, we're like, this is, he's going to fucking ruin the whole weekend. Like this is going to be his first diarrhea fest in a while. Friday's okay. Friday, nothing really happens. Friday night, the wheels come off. We decide we don't go out.

My wife does the thing where it's like we might have to take him to the vet. He's just lying on the ground, kind of looking at us. It's like really sluggish. She won't eat. And she's like, he ate a bone. He ate something. He ate something. There's turkey.

Like, this is bad. This is bad. So he ruins Friday night. Saturday, start and get better. And by Saturday night, he's okay. Had you taken him in or you did take him in? Never took him in. And by Sunday, he's okay.

He's a little happier. And we got through it. We got through it unscathed there. So we thought because in the upstairs in one of the rooms, just a giant, giant poop. That unclear if it had been there for 48 hours, 24 hours, but it was like he picked a room like he's smarter it's like better and savvy he's like nobody goes in this room that much just dropped one in there and it was in there and uh yeah so it was our first

incident in a lot that's bad so are you sure i know you want to i know you want to blame murph but it could have been brad who wandered into your house accidentally it might have been brad today's parent corner presented by uberates get almost almost anything for game day like your favorite game day foods drinks and snacks on uberates for Sean Demand Delivery Partner of the NFL order now. Anything else we have to cover? Oh, you know, we're doing Rocky 2 for rewatchables. It's going up tomorrow night.

I don't know how much, when was the last time you watched it? You know, I watched it a couple years ago. Is that the slowest of all of them? I don't want you to blow your load here. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if the point was to put us in a coma at the same time Adrian was in it.

It's a very long coma. Really enjoyable, though. I've watched it twice in the past five days. Yeah. Really good. And somehow the worst of the first four, but really, really good. So can't wait to take that one. There you go.

Stallone. Multiple scenes where he's just reading a book to Adrian. Like in the Stallone voice. They're deleted scenes that weren't deleted. They're just in the actual movie. It wasn't even in the movie. It was like during lunch hour. And they're like, let's roll on this.

Tell you, just pretend. This will be funny. The ringer gambling show. It's the greatest. Check it out on YouTube and the Fandle Sports Network. It's me and Tate and House and the Bundo and High Fitz, Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday. And then the ringer pregame show on Sunday. Lots of fun.

All right. Great. We're taking a break. We're keeping the podcast going because I got Van Lathen and Todd McShay to talk about this crazy Lane Kiffin story, which I guess wasn't that crazy since most people thought he was going. I can't be. I think I'm supposed to be outraged, but I'm not. I don't know.

I get my own sports these days. It's fine. Like Kentucky paid their coach $37 million to go away. Kentucky gives a shit. What are they doing? That's just how it is. All right. We'll pass that point along to the next segment.

So good job by you. Good job by you, buddy. Get no frills delivered. Shop the same in-store prices online and enjoy unlimited delivery with PC Express Pass. Get your first year for $2.50 a month. Learn more at PC Express. all right i can't remember many times on a sunday night podcast with cousin sal that we had to veer off and cover another sport but this college football story that happened with old miss and osu we had to

bring in todd mcshay and van lathen a giant lsu fan we'll start with todd um you saw this coming for a while you talked about in your pod but this still felt like one of the craziest weekends we've had in college football just with a coach switching teams the whole thing i don't remember this much of a circus is there another example i mean i guess brian kelly's the closest thing right back in 2021 where they were they were headed towards the playoff they won't up that was only a 14 playoff back then they had they were heading towards it i think they were like 11 and 1 or 10 and 1 at the at the time uh when marcus freeman stepped in as the interim became the the full-time coach so kind of similar in a lot of ways the defensive coach becomes the the full-time coach and someone

leaving in a playoff run to go to LSU. So there are definitely some similarities there, but I remember at the time, it was unprecedented. I mean, you had to go to comparisons in other sports, or at least maybe in the NFL to try to get

something that was an apt to comp, you know? So it's Vans team. So it's just LSU is the one that does this. Yeah. And the last time they did it, they still have like five and a half years and $54 million. to pay off so but this is different man like from the family quote when he walked into the into the

basketball arena of brian kelly to some of the recruiting early on and then the stories that started to surface it was just never a fit with brian kelly yeah this feels like home this feels like the right fit and i don't there's just so many layers to peel off in this but can we just for a half a second celebrate the fact that college football is I mean we just had the Lane Kiffin documentary come out and now we have part two

unfolding right in front of our eyes and college football for all of its imperfections and it's the wild wild west right now like this is this is like what you love about this game it's insanity it keeps just going

what you love is abject insanity yes okay Van Listen, you could feel coming for like two weeks And yet the part where they have this giant playoff And watching a coach leave a team That he just put all this time in to try to put in a position To do well in the playoff

And then he's like, I'll see you guys later Got a better offer, good luck It never sits right to me But this is one of the reasons why college sports Is so fucked up, Van. You've benefited from it twice. No, I have yet to benefit from it. Hopefully I'll benefit from it now.

I mean, we got the Hodgman Trophy season with Jay and Daniels. So, you know, Brian Kelly did some things while he was at LSU. You know, it's funny, you start, you get anxious about this stuff, so you reach out to people, people that are there, the people that you know, tons of LSU press, people that I know down there in and around Baton Rouge, I covered a sport. And you say, what's going on? And this is like a week ago, a week and a half ago. And they say, it's done. I'm like, what? It's done.

Like Lane Kiffin has agreed to come to LSU. Van, Van, Van, I got a text on Friday night. And apparently, not to, I've got to be careful. Apparently there's a text chain going on, right? And on that text chain, there's some people and someone I knew was, was around it and so on and so forth. I was told on Friday night, like, what, I don't get it. What's, what's the Marty Smith deal? Why is everyone, like, he's had a, he's basically closed on a house like a week ago.

Yeah, it was over. It was over. Yeah. And so all of this, this past, you know, 72 hours was about him being able to coach this team, these players through the play. Have your cake and eat it too, right? He wanted to coach this team through, but still take this job. And we could get into Kevin Carter and the AD and all that other stuff. But it's shocking to me, as you're alluding to, that the people, like, poor Marty Smith, man, he was held hostage in the facilities there.

This was his Walter Cronkite moment, though. like this was his moment to go down there with the slicker on while the hurricanes in the back and do real news coverage. The thing was, even though people were saying that it was over, it was done. They were still very hesitant to talk about it because of the nature of Lane Kiffin.

They were like, we don't know whether or not he is going to hold to the fact that he has already agreed to a contract with LSU. They were waiting for the egg bowl. Can I tell you something too, Van? They were waiting for the Iron Bowl.

Like, people weren't sure if he was going to stick to his word on it. The same people that told me Friday night that it's done and he's got a place basically and everyone in his circle knows that he's going to LSU. Same people were telling me, you watch, it will not be announced,

it will not be official until after that Alabama game. Right. Because of that, because the job he wants more than any other job, watch the hand motions. And I've known Lane for over 20 years. I'm buds with Lane.

communicate. But if you just watch as much as he butted heads with Nick at Alabama, he and Saban have a bond and a mutual respect for one another, even though they drove each other crazy. That was the job he wanted. And so there was still this 1% in him. And no one will ever admit it, and especially him. And by the way, we have Scott Boris right now. We have, to me, like, when you look at the situation with Jimmy Sexton in college football. He is the Falk. Yeah, David Falk, Scott Boris, Jimmy Sexton's

control. Even more so. He has 14 out of the 16 SEC coaches, though. He is the Lord of college football. Yes, yes. And he's messing around with Penn State right now. We can get to that later or another time. But he's messing around with Penn State right now because Penn State let go one of

his guys, James Franklin, in a manner that he didn't appreciate. And so now they're kind of sitting back and every time they go try to hire a coach or get serious with the coach, that coach who's represented by Sexton winds up with an extension or winds up going to maybe UCLA or, you know, so it's fascinating to see. But, but I truly believe there was a small percentage of lane that was like, yep, I'm going LSU. It's done. But what happens if Auburn beats Alabama? Because that thing could fall apart in a hurry with Kailen DeBore.

Yeah, see, Van, you're basically, I'm trying to think of the Hollywood relationship parallel. Oh, I got a bunch of them. Like Lori Harvey, if you know who she is, you know, if you date Lori Harvey for a little while, you fall in love, but you know that she's going to go looking for someone else, be it Warren Beatty, there's a bunch of them. There's so many. But here's the thing, though, here's the deal.

This is the deal. With any of these people, any of these relationships, the true measure of it is not the length of it. The true measure of it is what you got out of it. Like, what did you get? out of it. When you were, the time that you were in the sun, Dayton Madonna, the time that you were in the sun, Dayton Warren Beatty, Dayton, Rihanna, Dayton, Lori Harvey. Did your star go up? Did you win a couple of championships? Because that person is leaving. No one thinks that this is a marriage.

This is a long-term, long-term courtship between us and Lane Kiffin. What will we get out of the time that we are together? That's how you have to look at that. And Ole Miss people don't want to hear this. Okay. I love Oxford. It's one of my favorite stops on the college football tour. I think it's a beautiful, magical place. I love, but I love Archie. I'll give you a couple more before the way. I love Archie. I love the people there. I love the tailgating, all of it. But Lane out grew Oxford. His star rose and it got too big. And it got crashed from the Tennessee to the Raiders, to he and Nick fighting, the FAU and all of it. But he slowly built it back up and he kind of, he reinvented himself through sobriety and

hot yoga and remarried to his wife and all those things. And he now knows he's in a place personally where he can go and make a run at being one of the greats. And he took Ole Miss, this, you got to remember, this 11 win season during the regular season at Ole Miss is the best season in the school's history that they've ever had, yeah. That they've ever had.

Eleven win season at LSU is like, okay, really good, but what, like, what's the payoff now? So, and with that expectation comes support, comes a foundation that Ole Miss just doesn't have. And so I understand it from Lane's perspective. It's just the timing sucks. And honestly,

it's college football's calendar that's created all this because you can't wait another month with recruiting, with the NIL, with transfer portal and everything going on. The calendar's so twisted that you have to make decisions like this at the least opportunistic time to do so. When you say foundation, are you saying they just don't have the same NIL war chest or they don't have the prestige?

Like what is missing with the Ole Miss Foundation that LSU has? I think part of its prestige. I think part of it is, old miss has come up with a war chest that's you know i mean they they've been yes yes and they and they had the right people in place that were helping lane get the players that he wanted and and it was

but it was maxed out there so if lane's able to go to lSU and take the money that he had and maybe a little bit more money and the aggressive people around him to help support him he can turn he can become at lSU what Nick was at Alabama. I'm not saying that many championships,

but in his mind, I can go to LSU and make a serious run now that I'm in a place personally where I'm seeing things clear than I ever have before. I'm healthier. I'm like committed. Everything's in a row.

I can now go there and chase what Nick, what Nick created at Alabama. And that absolutely is his mindset. And more talent in Louisiana, right? Yeah, I'll say this, a couple of things. Number one, along with this, LSU has made a commitment to the NIL and to have $20, $25 million a year for him to go out and get the players, right? So he's going to be competitive as far as that's competitive with most programs in the country.

Secondly, is this. Per capita, I think Louisiana is second or third in terms of players in the NFL right now. It's a very fertile, fertile state for that. And there's not another SEC school in the state. Now, Mississippi is third, but there's a big gap between second and third. Like Louisiana and Georgia are real close, and then Mississippi is third, but there's a gap between Mississippi and Louisiana. And then you have another SEC school in Mississippi.

So whereas at Ole Miss, Lane is going to have to dip into the transfer portal every now and again to get players and hope that those players hit, if he can successfully, build a wall around Louisiana, he can go out and have the best, most talented athletic teams in the country every single year, top five schools, top five classes every year. The first thing that he did when he got in town was he met with Lamar Brown, the number one player in the class was already committed to LSU, who goes to UHI. Ui.S.U.S.U.S.U.S.U.S. campus. It's on the campus of the school, right? And the number one player in the state, in the country, is at that school.

So there are advantages that exist at LSU that he wouldn't have had an Ole Miss. I'll say this about Lane Kiffin, though. Lane Kiffin needs to prove that he's a championship coach. Everyone knows that he's a good coach. He's a talented coach. He can see ball. He can call ball. He can build programs.

But the reality is, now with the resources that he has, with as many places as he's been, it's time for him to prove that he can win championships. As the head guy. as the head guy, not as the guy that's calling your plays, as the head guy. And that happens here. It has to happen now because LSU is all in with LNKiff. And the thing, too, is, Bill, like, just so you understand, because I know, like, you, with the NBA and NFL and... I barely understand.

Trinidad. Trinidad got us. No, I know, I know. But Trinidad Chambliss, the quarterback that he just won 11 games with. he was a transfer from a division to school all of his games in the previous couple seasons that he played wasn't didn't wasn't in front of a crowd if you combined all those crowds as big as an SEC home game and so he brought him in and he was apparently rank because i don't i don't have like the the transfer portal rankings for for any position let alone quarterback but apparently they have a couple you know services that do these rankings he was like the 260 something ranked quarterback. And Lane found him and brought him in and did this with him in one year. So you think about what he can do at LSU with the type of talent that Vance talking about.

And then also, like, he went from West Coast, USC, the peak Carroll. When you think of that, like Sarkesian and Lane and what they did with those, like the Matt Linerts and the Sanchez of the world, to that uptempo crazed, you know, kind of fit his personality to mixing and blending the two with Jackson Dart. And Jackson Dart early on was that RPO hand the ball off and fast tempo and going. And then as Jackson Dart grew up and got smarter and could understand concepts, like morphed those things into more West Coast. And then he kind of went veered off to the side with Trinidad this year.

So not only are you getting a guy who can spot talent and develop talent, you're also getting a guy schematically who actually, and there's very few of them college football, who actually gives you a schematic, you know, upper hand over a lot of other opponents on the offensive side of the ball. And who develops talent to where you can see a huge thing that I think the transfer portal. And shout out to my man Carter, who power hour LSU, who talked about this. The transfer portal to me has affected the development of a lot of the players in college football because you're bringing in guys who are established.

and it's taken away reps and that other guys are getting that been in your program for a long time, right? So it's shortening the window to develop these players. Lane's players get better. They develop.

You see snap after snap, game after game, these people get better. These players, they develop. They are better football players. They don't regress in weird ways like some of the big players that you've seen in other places.

They get it and they continue to get a hold of what it is that he's giving them. And I just say something else. His crazy matches are crazy. We insane. We drunk on Saturday in the morning all day. We

New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Appaloosa, Shalmet, Destrahan, West Monroe, Lake, Charles New Iberia. Crazy. And his crazy matches our crazy. It's a culture fit. It works, man. I don't think it would

fit in Alabama. I think it fits perfectly in Baton Rouge. But I'm curious, Bill, because when you call me earlier in asked me, you know, are you around and I'd come on? It seemed like you were, you had an edge about this whole thing, like, kind of a little bit, were you disgusted by it? Like, what was your first reaction to all of this? No, so when I was like nine years old, the Patriots were really good, the 78 Patriots.

We had this coach, Chuck Fairbanks. Oh, here we go. And he took a job with Colorado, get the last game of the season heading into the playoffs. And everybody was outraged. They suspended him for the last game. Then he came back and coached the playoff game. got killed by the Oilers, and he just became this pariah that Patriot fans still hate. Like, everybody over a certain age, I hate that guy to this day.

So I wonder, like, A, does that happen with him in Ole Miss where he's just hated even 45 years from now? It feels like it will. Did you see the airport today? Yeah, yeah. It just feels like that's going to be the all-time villain status for him. And they're right down the highway. Right.

Well, then he goes to OSU, and it really does feel like this isn't the last stop for him. but I was thinking about it in the context of it's weird so LeBron won two straight MVP's the decision happens and he just vaults to another level of fame right that it was such a polarizing thing it was such a huge story everybody had an opinion on it like even like my wife knew that it happened or my mom people that didn't even follow sports it feels like this Lane Kiffin thing might be like that for college football

which I didn't really think would be possible for a coach like a story that crosses over the mainstream. So I guess my question is, does he now vault to this different level? Like, is he the most famous football coach now because of this? Oh, easily. Right? And is he more famous than any basketball coach?

Is he just the most famous college coach now? Yeah. I mean, I think so. I think he is. I think he is too. Yeah. I mean, obviously there are guys that are running in it right now. And as far as college basketball,

It's an interesting transitional period where a lot of the guys where these institutions are kind of gone now. But yeah, he is. This has been a soap opera that has captivated college football fandom

for the last month and it spilled over to where I'm getting texts from all different types of people talking about it now. And yeah, to be honest with you, Nick Saban came in and transformed LSU football.

It's a fact. It's a fact. grew seeds that are still bearing fruit. But it's hard for me to look at them. It just is because it became a humiliation ritual every November first weekend to go in there and get your teeth stomped in, right? It never goes away. But you're still kind of appreciative. You're still kind of appreciative.

You're still like we had Nick Saban. Now, the difference is, like, he never delivered them a national championship. Who knows how far Ole Miss football goes? if his legacy and what he started there can continue under Pete Golden, maybe it's offensive to blow a little bit. Well, Todd, do you remember that was the past fans with Parcells, right?

There was a lot of bitterness and he went to the Jets and even when he went to the Cowboys. But at some point it shifted and people were like, you know what? He brought football back. He probably saved that we would have gone to St. Louis if it wasn't for him.

I appreciate him. But it was really mad for a little bit. I think this Kippen thing will probably be a little deeper because odds are our Ole Miss is never going to matter like they just did the last couple years. Yeah, they're not hard. Not like this.

Not like this. And going back to your question, you got to remember college football in just the last few years has lost Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, Jim Harbaugh. So you look around like Marcus Freeman, people love and adore him.

Lincoln Riley was a big deal, but he went out to USC and surprisingly, it's just not gone well. And so his star has fallen. Kirby smart Dabo Sweeney for a while was just with all the antics and the press conferences

and the interviews of the post game was a big character but that star has fallen and Kirby Smart's been the most successful coach and while you can't argue the success and even though it was

the foundation is that of Nick Saban for whatever reason he just doesn't care that cachet, right? The Oregon coach seems like he has a little bit of crossover name recognition, but not like Glenn Kiffin, I don't think.

Not like Glenn. And even, you know, Chip Kelly when he was, when they were rolling, people loved Chip or despised him, but a lot of fun. College football, if you look at it right now, is kind of missing that like sex appeal for

like the big names and rival coaches and all that. By the way, so is college basketball. Just FYI. When you said that, it kind of dawned on it. Petito's probably the most famous college basketball coach right now.

And he's a holdover from a past era. Right. And I'm not saying that it won't happen again, but I'm saying right now, you know, it used to be times where you're looking at, you know, Calipar and all of these guys

are on top of it, and they have their own little fiefdoms of college basketball. In college football right now, there are a lot of things that are stopping us from getting to the middle of these stories, right? There's every time two teams play,

it's about the playoff, it's about to see, it's about a lot of, the cultural clashes is what made the sport special to me. This story is about a cultural clash. And the dominoes that fell around this, how as soon as Lane made his decision, Arkansas has their guy, Florida has their guy, Auburn has their guy.

All of that is about how these, I'm as interested in why John Summerall looked at the Auburn situation and went, can't coach there. Like, can't do it. Like, these are the things that used to undergird the love for the sport. And they kind of get washed over when you're talking about the transfer portal. You're talking about NIL.

You're talking about so many other things than just which culture is superior, the cultural warfare that is college football. I mean, the current system has created a bunch of mercenaries from players to coaches. And they really have, like, it's paid for play. And everyone's out to kind of get theirs. And quite honestly, Lane was trying to use this current system to go against the establishment in Ole Miss. And from what I understand, there were conversations of, well, I'm just going to take the staff and I'm going to take a bunch of these players with me. And they won't play if you don't let me coach.

And it didn't really work out. That's the other part of this, Van and Bill. Like, someone snuck a phone into that meeting today and they got it out. And they taped it. And they taped it. Yeah. So everyone had to turn their phone in. Someone had to burn her phone and someone had to put stuff somewhere where no one knew

and taped it. And when the chancellor and I think the AD spoke to the team, the players. And basically, thank you for everything you've done. You have no idea. Like you're 15 years from now, we're going to have you on the field 10, 15 years from now. And we're going to be celebrating you. You have brought memories. You have brought, like, you'll never understand what you have brought to this town, this city of Oxford.

but also we want to let you know you've got to keep pushing because we can still make a run at this and your new head coach is right here. And I was surprised by the level of excitement by the players. They went nuts. I think they got to a point

where they were just fed up with all of it. And so while Lane thought he was going to leverage these players that love him and would die for him, would follow him anywhere, they seemed to, when it was just one, you know, one meeting, but there were, it wasn't like, hey, you know,

it was going crazy. So that part's interesting too. Let's be honest, guys. This could be a sports movie. You can see it. I was going to, I keep trying to get you to get into it. I told you that I was about to hit you out. Somebody should do this.

Cast everyone up and someone should do this. I'll tell you this, though. I'll tell you something. Well, there will be some attrition. Not now. They end the playoff and they will playoff. play. After the dust is settled. No question. There will be some attrition.

The question is who? A lot of people thought Kiwan Lacey, Trinidad, Chamberliss, all of these guys would end up in purple and gold. I don't know that that'll happen. But there are definitely some people. There have been some decommitments already. There have been some players in Louisiana now who are looking around and they might go, huh, I might have the chance to be

neighbors or Brian Thomas Jr. or Jamar Chase again. I might get a chance to get used like that again with the type of that they're playing. And they're definitely going to be guys that play for Ole Miss that feel that way as well. There'll be some attrition. The question is how much and when will they start to trickle out? I don't think it'll be until after they're done in the playoff.

I mean, Todd, this is your favorite sport? Is this all this good? In the long run, no. What are we ultimately trying to do here as a spoil? Not really. But it kind of feels like we're always in this. Right. You know, like, man, things are out of control in college football,

whether it's paying players that, you know, it's not legal or illegal recruiting or I grew up. My grandfather got me into the sport, gave me an obsession with it. He was a quote-unquote area recruiter for the University of Michigan for Bo Schembeckler. Well, I thought that was the coolest thing in the world. But I didn't realize that, like, they were having these secret meetings and, like, Bo was coming to the house and no one was supposed to know about it because what my grandfather was doing was illegal at the time probably and I still don't know exactly how illegal but this has been going on for your grandfather was conor stallions no but maybe before

connor stallions apparently i don't like to think of them that way but i'm just saying i i feel like college football is always kind of in the seedy area and it's kind of what makes it beautiful well that the players have been able to at least match the seediness and be like all right now we're going to do it too and we have no little to anybody there's so many negative byproducts of all of this. There's no question. And unfortunately, following them now to the NFL draft and getting the intel from NFL teams that have private investigators and former FBI agents going and hearing

the stories of like, it's hard enough. Marty Schotenheimer had a quote to me once when he was working at ESPN. He said, the hardest part of evaluating a player, it's not does he have a big arm or does he run fast? it's it's knowing that you're about to hand this person three things that he's never had before more money more fame and more free time and it resonated with me and i'm still 15 20 years later still talking about that quote but now you're doing it and that was with like a 20 21 22 year old now you're doing it with like 16 17 18 year olds and to hear some of the stories going on so at

some point college football has to have a commissioner they've got to have a governing body that actually governs over the sport yeah good like that but i don't know when that's ever going to happen it's going to i've talked to so many head coaches and people in power like like the highest up people in power and they all agree on one thing it will take the government stepping in and forcing it on college football before it because there's too much money to be had right now too many people that or in power, are benefiting from it financially. Well, you talk about the 15, 16, 17-year-olds. You also have this whole class of kind of like lower-level agents slash manager,

handler, dealmaker people who have no experience whatsoever, who are super sleazy. I feel like that's where it's going to go the most sideways. Do you know what it used to be? It used to be that $40,000 or $50,000 was a lot of money that would really talk. $40,000, $50,000. And you come work on the staff. Well, you can get a car and put you on staff, not even put you on staff at the college,

put you on staff at the local high school, put your uncle on staff, let them call some plays and all that stuff. In a dealership or something, yeah. In a dealership, get them, all of that stuff, that doesn't move the needle anymore. No. We need $250,000. And I need $250,000, and I'm a four-star, I'm a four-star safety.

That's not, if you want a quarterback, that's a mill five, baby. That's two million. It's different. Things are different. And as we adjust to it, there are some bodies that are being left behind. Like right now, I love LSU. It's in my blood, walked around the campus when I was three years old. Like, my mom went there, all of that stuff, right?

But I do feel for the Ole Miss fans. I feel for what it must be like to be having the greatest season in the history of your school then lose your identity, which is what Lane Kiffin was for Ole Miss, before you go and get a chance to make a run. And so I do feel for that. Honestly, it's the wire, man. It's cold outside. I was going to say, I've known you a long time.

You don't feel bad at all. I don't know who you're kidding. Look, it's a cold game. I've been there. Like, it's a cold game, man. The thing about the old days is they're the old days. That's the thing about them. We're in the new day now, and it's kind of getting where you're feeling.

It's the way it goes. So, Todd, what school is the most bummed out that this happened other than Ole Miss? Alabama? Florida because for sure. I mean, Layla, his own wife went there. His wife's father was a star quarterback at Florida and went on to play for the Buccaneers,

I think it was. They thought it was, if he's leaving Ole Miss, he's going there. So why LSU and not Florida? Like, why would he pull the trigger on the OSU pick and not wait? I think, I think if you study both programs, there's, at Florida, there's a little bit more chaos, more bureaucracy. It's been disjointed at Florida.

It's terrible A.D. Todd. Terrible A.D. Yeah. You get to say. Terrible Strickland is one of the worst A.Ds. They've, they got a terrible A.D. A terrible A D. A guy who can't seem to make the right decisions about anything. It probably spooked a lot of coaches, to be honest with you.

Worse than the Syracuse AD who didn't hire a Bob Chesney? A little stealth joke for Todd two years ago. Todd remembers. And there's some layers to do it. We might have worked for him once in a time. He couldn't do that job either. Also, Sabin's influence might have pushed him to LSU just a tad bit. Maybe.

The two people that were most influential on this were Nick Saban and Pete Carroll. And Pete would just, Pete's. point to him was you did what you were supposed to do at Ole Miss they'll wind up appreciating you the players will wind up appreciating you but it's time for you to go to level up and you've earned the right to level up through all of everything you've been through go take it

Nick's message might have been what you're talking about Van well Todd you made the key point earlier the way the system set up maybe there's no way that this could be graceful like for For going forward, there's no way this can actually happen in a good way. You'd have to be out of the playoff race. The only people who are affected by this that I actually care about are the players.

And listening to that team meeting, maybe they're not as affected as I thought. I'm going to be rooting for them, though. Oh, me too. Let's have the sports movie actually happened, Van. Finn, you're doing an unbelievable job of pretending you're not like absolutely euphoric right now. I just want to give you like credit. I'll continue this happy in a while. So two things.

Number one, I'm glad we got our guy. I'm glad we got the coach that we wanted. Number two, if I wanted to be, I could be such a dickhead about this, but I'm choosing. If I wanted to be. Because if you, some of the, some of the texting calls,

and I'm getting, I didn't know we had it like that. We went right over into the next station and took your girl. Wow, you guys was about to get married. I mean, you guys are literally planning a wedding. No, this is getting us cold-blooded. And we said we got a bigger house. We got a better car.

We got a, you come over here and get it with us. If I wanted to, I could be a dickhead about it, but I care too much about the sport. I really love college football. And I know the fandom that people have. And I've been up there to Ole Miss. They're a decent fan. History aside. And I don't have any problem with them.

And I know this must hurt. I know this must hurt. Plus, the karma and the energy. thing is a big thing for me. But I'm happy. The karma rules. Yeah, like, I'm happy

the LSU got their guy. But God damn, that got to suck, man. That has to be tough. Well, you know who the last honest, loyal man in college football was? Drake May.

Could have left? Could have left for his last year, jumped to a better program, done it for him. You know what he did? He stayed in North Carolina with an inferior team. Not a great coaching situation

because he's a loyal guy, Todd McShay. Jake, he's built different. And now he's got a playoff run with no left tackle. So here we are. Here we are. All right. So, Todd, you're covering more of this on your podcast tomorrow?

Yes, tomorrow. We're, uh, yeah, tomorrow morning, it'll be up late morning. And, uh, and I've got, I got more on this. You got a lot more in Penn State. This whole, I don't think until this, I real, I mean, I knew that Jimmy Sexton had 14 of 16, you know, SEC coaches and he was powerful. I think this last six, eight weeks has shown us that he literally is the most powerful man

in college football. And he is pulling every string. And if you're a Penn State fan, that is a scary thing right now. And then, Van, you're covering more on ring or tailgate? That's what we're doing on ring or tailgate all Wednesday. We're doing a deep dive into Jimmy Sexton.

Oh. Yeah, we're doing a deep dive into Jimmy Sexton on Ring or Tailgate because I don't know, you guys are no better than I, would, if there's any singular sports figure right now, I guess Clutch has a lot of guys. Clutch has the ringer now. I guess Clutch has a lot of guys.

I guess Clutch has a lot of guys. But I don't know if there's any one specific figure in any one specific sport from the business side. Honestly, you can talk about boys. You can talk about David Falk. He's on that level. but on a crazy level. Even on the broadcast,

you can hear the guys on the broadcast, Jimmy Sexton clients. Yes. Talking in a Jimmy Sexton language, it's interesting. It's interesting. I'm not accusing anyone of anything. I'm just saying to have a player like that in your sport,

it just changes the dynamics completely. Boris felt like he had that going, not recently, but maybe like, what, 10, 12 years ago? Yeah, it felt like. It felt like he just had everybody for three, four years. But yeah, I mean, this would be the right sport to do it

because it's the Wild Wild West. All right, Van on Ringer Tailgate Wednesday, Todd McShay tomorrow, plus Todd's newsletter, which is essential. Love it. Go, Pats. Thanks for coming on, guys. Dan got me a newsletter. I've been looking at the losers.

Shout to Dan. I love it. Thanks, guys. No problem. See you guys. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Sal and Van and McShay and Gahow and Eduardo. Don't forget, rewatch them.

on Monday night, Rocky 2, and Music Box series actually coming back on HBO and HBO Max on Thursday night with a Jeff Buckley documentary that is fantastic. So I'll talk more about that on Tuesday, but just want to give you a little heads up. Thursday night, we have an awesome football game and you also have a really good documentary to watch.

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