The Bill Simmons Podcast - The Ringer’s Lottery Mock Draft Party | The Bill Simmons Podcast (Ep. 379)

Episode Date: June 18, 2018

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons brings in a slew of Ringer staffers for a special mock draft of the top 14 picks in the 2018 NBA draft. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The audience likes it. Check that out. Binge Mode Harry Potter. Also, the Ringers, excellent NBA draft coverage. All week, we are having stuff. We have the Ringers NBA draft guide presented by State Farm, and we will be upping that. Mock drafts. We might do a mock draft every hour. We just keep doing them. 7.0, 8.0, 9.0, 10.0. This is going to be a fun one because there's going to be trades. We will be there.

When there's trades, we will have reactions. Kevin O'Connor, Jonathan Charks, Danny Chow, Mark Titus, Haley O'Shaughnessy, all of our NBA dudes and ladies. They're all ready. They're ready to roll. We're ready for weirdness. Last but not least, courtside at the NBA finals on HBO. The final show that I executive produced, it's Tuesday, 9 p.m. with a re-air at 11pm on HBO

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at what they do check this out Tuesday night 9 o'clock courtside alright coming up we're going to rip through a mock draft

with a variety of ringer people it's going to be fun. First, Pearl Jam. All right. It's time for the Rer, mega mock lottery draft. We're hitting the first 14 picks. We have people calling in as if they are the GMs.

They already know who they're going to pick. We did this yesterday. So we're going to call or they're going to come in and walk into the office. Everybody has about five minutes to explain their pick and shoot the shit with me. We have Phoenix on the clock at number one. Jonathan Charks is going to come on. Now, we made him take DeAndre Ayton because one of the things I hate when people do this is they think to themselves, all right, yeah, no, actually, I'm going to take Luka Doncic here.

And then you end up with this whole draft that isn't actually how it's going to play out. In this case, we know Ayton is going to go first to the Suns unless he robs a gas station or something in the next 24 hours, which I don't think he will. I think he's going number one. After that, there's a lot of good stuff in play. And I love this draft because, first of all, we have a bunch of dumb teams in the top eight, top nine.

Sacramento, they love to screw up. Atlanta, they just hired a new GM. Memphis has been just a train wreck for the last 10 years of transactions and has somehow succeeded despite themselves. Dallas has not really made a good move in six years. Orlando is kind of the NBA's secret train wreck. Chicago's all over the map. Cleveland, who the hell knows? They're at number eight, whether they're picking for next year to compete or they're picking because they think LeBron's leaving. Then you have the Knicks at nine.

I mean, they're the Knicks. What else can you say? They took Frank Nitalenko over Donovan Mitchell last year. Phillies at 10. They don't have a GM. Their coach is running their draft, which is always a recipe for disaster. Charlotte's at 11.

They have been one of the most incompetent teams for the last 10 years. And then you have the Clippers at 12 and 13. Anything is possible. They're the Clippers. They are the most tortured franchise we probably have, or at least the league's black sheep. And then finally, 14, Denver.

Pretty boring. Blah. They'll just take whoever the best one is left. So then finally, 14, Denver. Pretty boring. Blah. They'll just take whoever the best one is left. So we're going to call Jonathan Charks first. He is going to talk about DeAndre Ayton. And then we are off. The Ringers, mock draft. Here we go.

All right. The Ringers, Jonathan Charks on the line. He's picking for Phoenix. We made him take DeAndre Ayton because we all agree there's no way he's not going first, right? That certainly sounds like it. Everyone seems to think it's going to happen. Are you okay with this? Are you okay with DeAndre Ayton going first? I mean, I wouldn't take him one, but I get why they're doing it. I could look very dumb in a few years not loving this guy. I mean, he's got all the tools, obviously. The tool that he doesn't have seems

to be consistent hard work, which is a red flag. It always makes me nervous, right? I would just say defensive IQ is not always there. He's going to be the five and he needs a long way to go in terms of protecting the rim, breathing the floor, and just really putting in effort on defense in general. What player does he remind you of? What current NBA player? Is there one? Boogie Cousins. Oh, wow. That's loaded. Yeah. For good and bad. I feel like the Andre, it's like, imagine if Andre Drummond had a post game and a three point shot. It's a great player, but how is that going to work on a team? I don't know. Yeah. So you would take Luka Doncic with this pick. If I didn't take Luka, I would take Jaron Jackson. I don't even care. I think he's better than Aiden

but that's just me that's like obviously I'm just a guy everybody likes Aiden he could be really good he's got all the tools so Jaron Jackson

so he's not even 19 yet yeah I think he's 18.7 one of the things I like about this year and I don't know when it started but everybody started using decimal points for age which is pretty cool. I am now apparently 48.6.

I'm fine with wanting to go to decimals. It's cool. I remember when I was a kid being half a year old. I get that. 12 and a half. It's a big difference. So he's not even 19 yet, Jackson. And I do think, I've been thinking about the Clippers and whether it

made sense for them to trade up. It certainly seems like they want to get into the top four somehow to get a chance at Doncic or whoever they're looking at. I think after the top three, if the top three is Aiton, Doncic, and Jackson in some order, I don't think there's anyone else I would trade up those two picks for. Is there any other player you think is worth 12 and 13, especially when guys can drop down? No, I don't think so. I think Bagley in the right situation could be like, if you have a Marc Gasol and Bagley can play, you know, not protect the rim and be the four and be the five on offense. I think he'd be great. But other than that, I don't think so. I think those three are kind of above the trading up. So you think if, if Phoenix shocked everyone and took Jackson at number one,

you'd be okay with that? I would, they won't do that, but I'm a, I'm a blogger, right? And I'm still my job on the line. It does seem like Jackson's very Al Horfordy.

And yeah, I would say like, to me, the thing is like, I want my five to be a great shooter and a great defensive player. And I feel like that's what he has over the other fives. Whereas Aiden, he's a post guy. He's a great post scorer.

That's great, I guess. There's so much old school DNA in this draft of take this tantalizing center who probably isn't going to make it. We've seen that guy. I mean, I shouldn't say probably isn't going to make it, but probably is going to make it as the superstar you think he's going to be as the number one pick. We've seen this guy before. There's a version of him that's Joe Barry Carroll 40 years ago,

where it's like, oh, yeah, he's got all the tools. The only thing is he's not sure about his defensive IQ and how hard he's going to work. I think it helps, too, though, in Phoenix, playing with Jackson and Booker. The only thing is, is not sure about his defensive IQ and how hard he's going to work. And then- I think it helps too, though, in Phoenix, playing with Jackson and Booker. That'll make his life a lot easier on offense, at least. And there's a chance, if you put him in a good situation, maybe the upside for him is a little better than what Boogie had to deal with in Sacramento, right?

Like if you put 19- Yeah, this is a great spot for him. Yeah, if you put 19-year-old Boogie on this team, maybe his whole career goes a little differently compared to how it went. I do feel like we never think about that enough with lottery picks and where they go. And then when we say after, like, oh, that guy was a bust, or oh, I can't believe they took that guy.

A big part of it is where they go. Tatum went to Boston last year. That was the greatest possible situation you could have ever gone into if you're Jason Tatum, where you have people who can shoot for you and take the offensive load off you. He got all these playoff reps. That's like 100% of a win

versus what Lonzo Ball had to deal with last year. Yeah, I think the big key for Phoenix is what happens to the four position? Do you play Josh Jackson there? Are you dumping Chris and Bender? Do you want to get a veteran that could help Aiton out? I think who they get at four will be very important for them this year and going forward. Well, maybe where the league's going, Josh Jackson is... I wouldn't say it's a four.

It's like a three and a half. But it seems like there's a lot of three and a halves out out there now, right? Yeah. It's like, you look at like Minnesota, they brought in Taj Gibson to help cat on defense, but then I kind of heard cat on offense because he Gibson can't spread the floor. So can they find that guy who makes eight and a better defensive player and still give some room on offense to score? Hey, last question before you go Dallas at five your team you're there who are you hoping drops

to number five I'm hoping Jaron goes or Luca but that probably is not going to happen yeah it seems like I'd find I'd be really surprised if the top four was an eight in Doncic Jackson Marvin Bagley,

in some order. That's what I'm thinking too. And I think that the draft really falls off after that, which is like, oh man, it's a bummer. Well, not for Kevin O'Page views. He likes Bamba. He's all in. They force fed the Kool-Aid down his throat when he was at those workouts.

He's ready. He's watching those unadjusted threes. Well, the thing is, here's why we love the draft. Sacramento could totally take Marvin Bagley at number two. And then this whole chain events of just disaster.

We're going to talk about that with Riley McAtee right now. Charks, as always, a pleasure. Read you on the Ringer NBA Draft Guide and listen to you on the Ringer NBA draft guide and, and listen to you on the ringer NBA show. You're coming into LA, right?

Yeah. I'll be in tomorrow. All right. All right. Looking forward to seeing you. Thanks for having me on. All right. Pick your number two,

Riley McAtee, old Grantland teammate, original ringer teammate. It's been the year of Riley. Uh, it's the Rams. The Rams are good again. The Rams are good again the Rams are good

the Kings are back maybe maybe kind of you're in the power seat at number two yeah yeah we're in the seat where we get to decide

what happens at least with the rest of the draft but the scary part is you're in the seat where you get to decide what happens and it's the Sacramento Kings

yeah that part it felt like it was going to be easy because it seemed like Phoenix was just going to make the choice for us and now it's like oh no no to be easy because it seemed like Phoenix was just going to make the choice for us. And now it's like, oh, no.

No, not at all. There's Marvin Bagley rumors. There's Michael Porter rumors. Oh, yeah. There's that too. Yeah. But there was an Instagram photo with Vivek's son. Yeah, there was. With Donchich, who is the one you want, right? You want Doncic? I want Doncic, 100%. I'm taking Doncic at two if it's me.

That photo is from June 5th or 6th, but he put it up there recently. Just trying to mess with the K fans? Well, we didn't know that they had all met. We didn't know that Vladi and Vivek and Doncic had met in Spain at that time. Now it's like, oh, they got dinner together and they kept that under wraps. That's interesting. I tweeted yesterday, somebody

posted video, Doncic won another tournament this weekend. Yeah. And he had a good game. You know, typical, did all this stuff. He looks like,

at least in the DNA vicinity of Harden and Ginobili, some of the stuff he does. He's taller, so it's harder to kind of compare all three of those, but that's how he plays.

And he's very herky-jerky. And he's always in control. And he's already a great passer. He's a step back three. I think I would take him first 100 times out of 100. He's also like the Kings. If you think of him on the Kings, they've never really had a great, great player like that except for C-Web. Boogie was stats great but he wasn't

great no he was yeah it felt like at times that Boogie was putting up empty stats I don't think that Donchish does that he's special he is just a playmaker he's so creative he's so skilled and I get that it's like maybe the wow factor of like athleticism isn't quite there like it is with some of these other guys. You just watch him create and it's like, man, that guy just creates offense. He makes things happen. As a fan of the team that owns your pick next year,

I don't want you to take him. You want us to take Jaron Jackson or Michael Porter. I want you to take Michael Porter and then he has a herniated disc. Oh, God. The Celtics have it unless it's number one and then Philly gets it. Yeah. But I do believe that if Donchich went there, I think he could be worth like 12 wins. I wonder about the Fox thing with him and Fox and who has the ball. I haven't seen enough of him in Europe to know if like they have a traditional point

guard on that team too. But it does seem like he could play anywhere. That's the one argument I do see for not taking Doncic is that I think if you take him, you want him to have the ball. And if he has the ball, then it's like, what is De'Aaron Fox doing on the court? A guy who's not a shooter and not like a true impact defender. But it's also like-

That's a good problem to have though. It's like, you just take the most talented guy, right? Like the Kings don't have enough talent to be like, oh, well, we're going to draft for fit now. you just need to get the best person and then you'll worry about the fit with fox and don't just later we saw cleveland make this mistake in 2014 they had kairi and they had dan waiters and then they had the number one pick and they should have taken oladipo it was the safest pick but it's like well we already have dan waiters it's like yeah he's better than dan waiters make dan wait Deion Waiters your sixth man. I was saying this on TV

and people were like, you're killing the Cavs. Like, no, Oladipo's better than Deion Waiters. Sorry. Do you know who didn't make that mistake overthinking fit? The Sixers. They took all those centers. They took Noel and then they took Embiid in like the very next draft. Yeah. And it was like- But unfortunately then they did take Okafor too. Yeah. They took Okafor then, but that one was a mistake, but it was like the idea of just taking the number one guy, the best guy, regardless of position and eventually waiting until you hit a superstar is the right move.

Yeah. Especially I've always wanted the NFL to do this. I've just take a quarterback every year until I ended up with a good one. Yeah. No other position matters. Yeah. But Boston did this with Tatum. Like the,

the quote unquote fit last year might not have been him, but their thinking was six, eight guys in the perimeter, interchangeable. All of them can shoot. In this case, you take them, you see if it works. And if it doesn't, I really liked Aaron Fox. And I think he has trade value. I told you what I would do. I would trade him for the six pick. Yeah. I floated that to Kevin Clark actually. And he was like, I'd rather have Trey Young. And I was like, wow, I think you're crazy. Well, Kevin's coming on later. And unfortunately, it's going to be one of the three greatest moments of his life as a Magic fan, just picking Trey Young in a mock draft. So if you get Doncic, he comes in. This doesn't open the door now for the Kings to be like, let's win now.

Let's make another dumb free agent signing of a veteran guy who's going to be unhappy four months from now. They're not going to do that, right? Well, I don't know. I mean, I wouldn't be totally opposed to them doing that just because they don't have the 2019 pick. So it's sort of like, as long as you're not getting them on crazy long deals that are going to look really bad in 2020 it's like why not we have no pick next year we might as well just gun for the eight seed and lose in four games to the warriors but at least that'll be a fun series going back and forth down i-80 like but that was the case to trade for kawaii right yeah well okay but that's different because then you're giving up the number two pick and you're giving up like long-term future assets if we're just signing guys to contracts and free agency whatever who cares yeah but i think i'm i'm

thinking i wouldn't do this by the way i think this is absolutely idiotic but if they traded two for kawaii yeah they did the one year all-in flyer on them and they still controlled like whatever his max contract stuff is so at least maybe you could trade him or whatever. Try to talk him into being the star. The reason I wouldn't do it is I'm not sure he wants to be the star. I think he wants to be on a super team where he doesn't have to deal with all the being the star stuff is my random psychological take. I wouldn't do it either.

But I wouldn't do it just because I think there's no way he resides. I think he's just gone after one year. And it's like, either, but I wouldn't do it just because I think there's no way he resides. I think he's just gone after one year and it's like, wow, why'd we do that? I'm going to ask you a very tough question.

The Kings could do that though, right? It would be a very Kings move to be like, we've got Kawhi Leonard. It's great. He's going to reside here. And then you trade

the Dodgich pick. Yeah. I could totally see them doing that. There's nothing they can't do. Sometimes you got to take a risk. I could see Vivek. I could see the press conference. Totally.

Yeah. I mean, hey, we'd have one season where we'd have a true superstar. We went 44 and 38. Oh, wait, he left. Just take Donchich. This isn't hard. It really isn't. I could see them taking bagley

though he feels like a very kind of over the decades kind of kings player i was like oh it's 28 points last night but we lost i've tried so hard to talk myself into marvin bagley just mentally preparing for that pick and i can't do it i'm like uh he's gonna be a 20 and 10 guy but we're gonna win like 35 games every year with him. Very Kings-ish. Titus loves him. Yeah, I know. I read that piece and I came away and I was like, I still can't get my mind off of Luka Doncic. Worst case scenario is Porter, just because he has the highest injury risk potential by far.

Porter at two is wild. If you want Porter, you've got to trade down and get something else. He's got a bad back. Yeah. Oh, I wonder what the trade down is though. Yeah, I don't know've got to trade down and get something else. He's got a bad back. I wonder what the trade down is though. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if it's available, but then it's just still like, man, you're passing on so many other guys who are healthy, who can play basketball right now. I wonder if they could go 2-7 and then flip

12-13 for 7. Flip 7 for 12-13? 2-12. Maybe there's something where they end up with 7-13 for 2. Yeah. Or I don't know. Yeah, they there's something where they end up with like seven and 13 for two. Yeah. Or I don't know. Yeah, they could do. I've come up with so many fake trades for this that I can't figure out what the hell is going on.

I love the fact that Sacramento is in the power seat though. From a comedy standpoint, it's magnificent. But if this works out, you have the Rams as a Super Bowl favorite. Donchich. Anything else going on sports-wise for you? That's really it. It'd be those two.

Yeah. Cal football is not doing anything right now. So people know at their rally, probably the most tortured sports fan we have at the ringer.

Not a lot of highlights. The Rams making the playoffs was your number one highlight since I've known you. And I've been a fan of them since they moved to Los Angeles. So that's two years now. Two long years.

All right. Good luck with Donchich. Thank you. All right. Number three, Danny Chow, the ringers, number one, uh, foodie, as well as, uh, as the last remaining Dante Exum fan. Come on. You don't really have, who's your NBA team though? You don't really have one. I've never had one. You've been agnostic. Is that the right word? NBA atheist? Sure. Agnostic is probably the term here. Well, we gave you Atlanta for number three because we needed to get you in this mock

draft and remember Brown doesn't know enough about the NBA draft. Off the board is Aiton and Doncic. Riley took Doncic with his fingers crossed, hoping the Kings would listen to him. And now at number three, Atlanta, who do you take? Jaron Jackson Jr. Do you think he should be the number one pick in this draft? So there's a growing suspicion over the last couple of days that I think he might be the best player in this draft.

Like I think he has real potential to be the best player in this draft. You look at this Hawks team, which is kind of building itself as this team of the future. You know, they have Travis Schlenk, who's been with the Warriors for forever. He's the guy who, you know, they credit as the guy who found Draymond Green. Yeah. They got Lloyd Pierce, the defensive coordinator for the Sixers last year. This is where you get your three and D big man, the most, the rarest commodity in the NBA right now. He's, would you say he's Horford 2.0?

I think he has got, he's taller, right? I think he has that potential. He's 6'11", 7'5 wingspan, can switch out on the perimeter. He's probably as good as at guarding guards as he is at rim protection. And I think he's the best rim protector in this draft.

It does seem like he translates the most to the basketball that we watch. Yeah. Because when I go to the finals, I'm always trying to figure out which players could be in the game I'm watching. And he is somebody like, there's just no way if you have somebody who can shoot threes on one end, guard bigs on the other end, that's kind of the jackpot. Right. And it doesn't seem like Aiton can do that.

Aiton is this old school big man that the success rate of those guys has been pretty hit or miss. So Aiton has been talking up the fact that, oh, he was playing out of position at Arizona. He played right next to a center. He had to switch out on the perimeter, but there wasn't a lot of space for him to actually do what he can do. But you saw with Jaron Jackson, he kind of had the same situation. He was playing next to a center. He was playing next to another lottery guy in Miles Bridges. He found a way to make it work. Yeah. And he's one of the youngest guys in the lottery. He's 18.7 years old. It's incredible. what's your decimal point age? I turn 27 in November.

So you're 26.6? Something like that. Isaac, what are you? I'm 23.7. I love this new decimal thing. Did we start it or did somebody else start it? No, no, this is definitely a DraftXpress thing. We can't take credit for it?

No. Damn it. Yeah. I really like the decimals. Gavone was on this for a while. Okay. All right. Sorry, Gavone.

So Atlanta, Jaron Jackson, Dennis Schroeder. Who knows how long he's there? Who knows? Well, how are you trading a point card that makes 18 million a year

when everybody has a point card? That's true. And then, John Collins. John Collins, who we like. That's an interesting front court. Very athletic.

Jaron Jackson kind of covers for a lot of what Collins can't do. I actually do like that, but I do like that front court. It's fun and it's exciting. Yeah. The one thing with Jaron Jackson, you worry about his shot. Like he shot 40% from three in college, but his form is a little bit wonky, a little bit unorthodox. He just kind of needs the reps.

But from what I've seen, his touch is awesome. So I'm not too worried about it. But if there's one thing you can really maybe poke a hole in, it's like, well, his shot was good for college. You don't know how it's going to be in the pros. Yeah, the 40% college thing, I never get too carried away with that because that's such a small sample size.

It could be like 41 for 102. Meanwhile, like if he missed three shots, now it's 38, you know? Yeah. But at least he makes them. I mean, you want to know he's in the vicinity. And it seems like he's a good character guy too. Yep.

If I was picking one, I don't know what I would do if I was Phoenix because it really does seem like this is the kind of guy you'd want yeah but then if you put the number one bullseye on him then it's like oh my god i can't believe they took him one and now there's all these pressures in this scenario is the best scenario for him he goes to atlanta he's third he's under the radar they're gonna suck for three more years and he'll just kind of get his reps. Yeah. I've talked to Suns fans and they're just like, we're cursed.

This number one pick, it's either it's a no-brainer or it's a toss-up. And I feel like in this year, it's a toss-up. But you would take Luka first, right? I would take Luka first. So our entire staff would take Luka first.

It's a really, that's all of us. KOC seems like he is probably the most bullish on Jackson going first. You're probably number two. Really? I thought Charks would have been. I feel like Charks has been our Jaron Jackson zealot for the entire year. Charks is in on Luka.

It sounded like. Isn't that what he said, Isaac? He is, but he is in on Jackson. He'd be okay with Jackson. Yeah. He's been saying that Jackson would probably be the best big in the draft since February.

It does seem like after this pick, it drops off. We have the three short things, basically. Everyone was saying the tiers, it was like Donch and Jaden in the top tier, but now it seems like Jackson's drifted into that top tier and we have a three-person tier. But now it seems like Jackson's drifted into that top tier

and we have a three-person tier. Yeah, it's just he fits so much with everything that we're seeing and everything that we're going to see in the next three years in the NBA. It's really easy to project him as a guy who makes a huge difference on any team he plays on. Jaron Jackson Sr.? I remember him from his Spurs days, but... So that's the dad, right?

Yeah. Yep. It's kind of amazing. Yep. So yeah, I mean, that's why I actually think his shot might translate. Because Jaron Jackson Sr. was the clutch shot maker for the Spurs. Yeah. So.

I also, I like that too. I like the son of an athlete. I think we've seen over and over again. I talked about that with Donovan Mitchell on the pod a couple weeks ago about these guys that these kids are around locker rooms and they're just kind of used to the life. They're not surprised by stuff. They have a parent telling them, don't do this, don't do that. Just the adjustment thing's better. Give me your biggest food recommendation right now.

Whew. biggest food recommendation right now who i so yesterday father's day my brother made an amazing uh tomahawk ribeye chop oh tomah so you're number one for tomahawk now um actually no he so he had a ribeye cap which is arguably a more beefy cut yeah then theahawk. The Tomahawk's really just, you know, for show. It's beautiful. It looks amazing. You could kind of wield it as an ax. But yeah, my brother had a couple steaks out there. It was delicious.

Sous vide, you know. The Tomahawk. Tomahawk's gaining steam. All right, Danny Chow. Always a pleasure. Write some food columns, please. Once we get through the draft, write about food. Once we get through this.

I'm going to force you to do it. Sure. Thanks for coming on. Thank you. Quick break to talk about Burrow. I have good news. Burrow has reinvented the luxury couch. From style to shipping, Burrow's put the time and thought into furniture buying, so you

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on your Burrow, risk-free or try out Burrow at one of their showrooms today. They actually sent us some and it was just in time because we got a couple new ringer offices and you know what we needed? Couches, nice couches. So thank you Burrow. For $75 off your order, visit burrow.com slash BS. That is B-U-R-R-O-W dot com slash BS for $75 off your purchase. Back to the mock draft. All right, on the line from Memphis, Chris Vernon. He hosts the Tuesday NBA podcast that we have in the Ringer NBA show with Kevin O'Pageviews. Chris Vernon, Memphis, it looks like it's a top three draft and then it drops off and Memphis has the fourth pick.

What are you rooting for to happen as you look at this? I'm rooting for Marvin Bagley to be available at four. Okay, explain yourself. He's the best player in the draft. Whoa! I don't know what people need to see. The guy was getting like 30 and 20 against Virginia. There's like teams that couldn't

get 30 points against Virginia. At what point in his life have you ever watched a basketball game that featured Marvin Bagley and did not think that's the best guy on the court? That's happened since he was like 10 years old. So I honestly have no idea what everybody is watching. Wow. You came in hot. I like this. So the rap on Bagley is can't play defense. Yeah, that's the rap on James Horton and the rap on Steph Curry and the rap on like Damian Lillard and like almost every awesome player in the league outside of Kawhi Leonard, Jimmy Butler, and a handful of others. I'm unconcerned with that. And then, by the way, one of my favorite players of all time

and a guy that is going to have a statue in front of FedExForum is Zach Randolph. So please don't tell me about throwing a guy in a pick-and-roll. If my guy can get me 25 and 18, I can live with the fact that, and I think honestly, his defensive missteps are overrated. Played with like five freshmen. They played zone all the time and people blame it because it was playing Marvin Bagley for him having to go to zone. I think that's goofy. He plays with a motor and he's not, and you get a coach that can coach him up. I don't think he is an unwilling defender and he's certainly not athletically deficient.

I can fix that. So we just watched the finals. I always like to project these guys in the finals I just watched. I could see him on the Cavs, right? He could have played there. He would have been the other forward with Kevin Love and LeBron getting points, probably getting burned on defense like everybody else. Where does he play on the Warriors? Could you see him in the Jordan Bell spot? Oh, for sure. Yes. He could play either. Because the other thing is, the last line of defense is what? Getting the rebound. Right? You get a stop, you get the rebound.

And this guy, and in fact, you see, if you can grab rebounds every single game that you play, right, like that's the other thing about the whole defensive knock. I don't think there is a team in the world that Marvin Bagley can't get minutes for. You know, I listened to your Kyrie podcast, and I was thinking about Bagley the other day because in the midst of that, Coach K said he's been at Duke 38 years,

and I've had one other guy like Bagley, and it was Kyrie, and he only got to play eight games. So I don't think Coach K's putting his name to that. He's had a whole manner of great players over the last couple of years even, and he is putting his name to that he's had a whole manner of great players over the last couple of years even and he's putting his name to it so Titus loves him too for us

Titus is coming up later to do Cleveland I am in the camp of it depends what team he goes to because I can see a scenario where his entire career is just a good stats for bad teams guy but I like this Memphis fit for him especially oh he's perfect next to Gasol He's just a good stats for bad teams guy. But I like this Memphis fit for him.

Especially. Oh, he's perfect next to Gasol. Especially because they got Gasol stretched out to the three-point line. Oh, yeah. I mean, listen, it's exactly what they had with Debo for so many years. Yeah. But a little more athletic, though. Oh, right.

It's the dream. It's the dream. It's the dream. I cannot believe he would be available at four. That would be insane to me. But hey, I'll take him. As we know with Memphis, though, they're prone to do really dumb things. It's the franchise that took Hashim Thabit over James Harden and Russell Westbrook. That happened. That was an actual NBA event.

No, Steph Curry was the next year, right? No, same year. Oh, wait. Oh, you're right. Westbrook was in that draft. No, it was James Harden and Steph Curry. Oh, yeah. Yeah, well, they took Kevin Love

and then flipped him for OJ Mayo yeah that happened the year before the Westbrook year and somehow Chris Wallace the guy who did both those things still has his job which has always been incredible but as we've known we've said this I think you were the one who coined this when the apocalypse happens

the only people that will be left are Chris Wallace and some plants and that's it but in this case the Grizzlies The only people that will be left are Chris Wallace and some plants. And that's it. But in this case, the Grizzlies have had this just horrible run. But now if they can get Gasol and Conley healthy, which I am dubious of that. I think those guys have a lot of miles in them. But let's say they are.

Let's say they bring Bagley in and he can produce right away. They bring Tyreek Evans back. They have a couple of role players. They sign one free agent. There is a case for them to win somewhere between 40 and 45 games, I would think, right? Well, and the other thing is they've got the 32nd pick, which is a great pick. Yeah. So you've got to nail that too, right?

You've got to nail that too. There's always someone available at 32 that can end up really helping a team. Same way there's always somebody at four. I was looking at this the other day, just to, you know, I'm trying to talk myself into having the fourth pick isn't that bad. Almost every year over the course of the past decade, there are, you can go through the top three and we would redo them. The only one that you could argue is probably two years ago when it went, uh, when it went Ingram or when Simmons, Ingram and Jalen Brown. But by the way, everybody, yeah, everybody thought that the Celtics were goofy for taking Jalen three, right? They wanted Chris Dunn or they wanted Dragon Bender or whoever it might've been. Um, but virtually every other year. So the point is there's always somebody better

than the top three available at four. You just have to, you got to nail it. Yeah. And the problem is with Memphis, I can totally see them taking Michael Porter and you having a conniption in your next podcast with us.

Oh, listen, no. My great fear is that they trade back a couple of spots to take somebody that they say they really like and get another starter from another team to get off the Parsons contract that they use the most valuable asset that they've had in order to make up for a former mistake. And then they justify it by saying, Hey, we got two starters out of this draft. Yeah, that's a classic NBA thing where you make a horrible mistake and then you give up an asset to try to save the horrible mistake. So it ends up being the double horrible mistake. Right.

I mean, I remember Matt Millen or Steve Mariucci one time on the NFL Network. He was talking about Joey Harrington. And they were talking about, I remember when they took all those receivers over and over again. And he said, the mistake wasn't all of the receivers. We never admitted that Joey Harrington was a mistake. And then we just kept trying to make up for it.

We kept saying that Joey Harrington's not good because he doesn't have receivers. And so it's always, it's always a fool's errand to try to make up for a mistake that you've made. Last question. Which, which player would you be most excited if they fell to you out of the top three? Or you can still take Bagley no matter what.

Yeah. Donchage would be the next one. Yeah. Yes. Cause there's a scenario. The next one. Yeah. And I'm turning it, I'm turning in an article today, actually, to you guys about guys that, like, there will always look back and we're going to see that there are guys that failed and we'll go, eh, maybe we should have seen it coming. Yeah. And so maybe with, like, Aiden, it's a motor, or it's Jackson, he only played 21 minutes

a game, or whatever it may be. But I see no scenario in which Marvin Bagley is a failure. And I see no scenario where Donchich is a failure. He's just too good at basketball. All right, Chris Vernon. Thank you. All right, Jason Gallagher is here.

Yes. Our very creative person behind the scenes in the video thing. You've seen him pop in some videos. Yeah, occasionally. I try to stay out of it though. What part of your job is you do NBA desktop for us every week? That's true.

I made a controversial appearance on Friday's desktop with Tanya Hubbard. We were filming each other. It just got, it got very dark. That was beautiful. That was beautiful filmmaking. It was great. It really was.

It was like a Fellini movie. Yeah, it was. So Dallas on the Clock at five. Yep. Chris Vernon just took Bagley at four. The top three is what the top three is. Uh-huh. So what do you do at number five?

When you hang out with Kevin O'Connor long enough, he starts to try to convert you to his belief system. And he's essentially convinced me that Mo Bamba's the guy. Okay. He's convinced me. He's been on a crusade. Two weeks ago, I was pretty out on him, but he's just been texting me every day,

little tidbits of Mo Bamba-ism. Longest wingspan in combine history, Jason. Did you know that? He could finish around the rim. Baseline, he's a defensive presence, but the upside is he's a cornerstone and it's really gotten to me bill and i'm i'm now i've now converted to the church of mobamba oh i'm in i'm in he's got me did koc take the kool-aid from the mobamba's workouts did he

pour it over your head or did he force you to drink it he he sort of forced me at first and then i started asking questions well what about this what about that and then he's just like go watch interviews okay so he's so intelligent yada yada i'm impressed by mo bamba now i'm on i'm on the island evan's like judging me right now he's a maps fan too so yeah so dirk and mo bamba you can't factor dirk in anymore why leaving dirk's never leaving he's never leaving butirk is like Daryl Hammond on Saturday Night Live. He's just going to be there until you make him go. My favorite thing on Mavs blogs is they're like, well, we got to start thinking life

after Dirk. And it's like... Like four years ago? Yeah, forever ago. Not now. I mean, yeah. So that kind of shows you the state of Dallas right now. Yeah, I'm really bought into... I've bought into Mo Bamba. I have. I think that everything KOC says is very intriguing.

I think that he's probably the most conservative of the picks. Everyone has this downside. And for him, it seems like at worst, he's just going to be a presence on defense, which is great. I don't know. That's kind of where I talk myself into it. That's really sad times for the Mavs. It really, really is. And, you know... No party

wants to take Trey Young and hope that he's Steph Curry. Oh, every part of me. But if I'm a real GM, then no. But if I'm fake GM, Jace, I was just talking with Shoemaker about it. Trey Young, totally. Are you kidding? I went to college in Oklahoma. I used to gamble, like, every fucking night. I would totally go for Trey Young.

But, uh... Does it bother you that the Mavericks haven't made a good move in I used to gamble like every fucking night. I would totally go for Trey Young, but. Does it bother you that the Mavericks haven't made a good move in six years? It does bother me. Thank you for asking. Because that kind of opens the door for a lot of possibilities to pick five. It does. So obviously the dream scenario

is that Doncic falls to like four or something. And then you are able to trade five and like Barnes for Parsons is terrible contract and four and hopefully get Donchage. That's the goal. Many people in Dallas don't want to do that. I've listened to a lot of Dallas sports radio. So Donchage falls to four.

Yes. You flip Barnes. You take Chandy back. Take them back. He and Q's just back out on the town. Let's go. And the goal is just Donchage. Yeah.

I would do that in five seconds. Five seconds. What am I losing with Harrison Barnes? There's so many people in Dallas that are like, Barnes is a cornerstone. Don't touch it. I'm not kidding. A cornerstone of what?

That's what I've been trying to say. Maybe if you're close, he's a good guy to have, but not if you're as far away. Like the Mavericks are far away. He is one of those frustrating guys that on the right night. Yeah. Like I remember the Celtics played in Dallas

during the winning streak. Yes. And it was like just kind of Barnes taking us on. And Barnes can look really confident sometimes and you're like

wow this guy Barnes. He's good. But then the next game he'll have three points. Nah he's one of those guys that's like great leader great presence can do some stuff

but he's not oh my god I would trade him so fast and then I would trade him so fast. And then I would go to sleep so heavy and easy if I knew that I could trade Barnes and it would wind up with Doncic in a heartbeat. That's a really interesting trade.

That's the one that's swirling probably the most. I could see the Grizzlies doing that. Yeah. No, totally. Because you get Barnes. Yeah. Then you get whatever you get at the fifth piggy, two starters out of it, and you get rid of the Parsons contract. I would do that. Yeah. Then you get whatever you get at the fifth pick. You get two starters out of it and you get rid of the Parsons contract.

I would do that. Yeah. Great trade. Great fake trade. Hey, guys. You've been the fake trade of the trade today so far. Thank you so much. Yeah.

Barnes is great. If anyone from Memphis is listening, Barnes is great. He's great. You'll love him. He's a great role player. He's the third best player in a title team. Yeah. Exactly. Actually, you could say he was the third best player in a title team yeah exactly actually you could say

he's the fourth best player in a championship team totally at times maybe three and a half I don't know just don't watch game seven of the

2016 finals yeah yeah just erase that I'm going to flag all those on YouTube since I know how to do that now so Mo Bamba uh huh

Dirk Nowitzki Barnes Wes Matthews and Dennis Smith who we have no idea if he's good or not um no I think I I think you have to go in on Dennis okay you have to go in on him would you want to play basketball with him me yeah uh sure but I would play basketball with anybody um no in all seriousness Dennis I mean right now he he played really he played really well last year I think I think last year was like rookie class was an anomaly.

And any other year, he would have been really impressive. I mean, two years ago, who won Rookie of the Year? What's his name? Milwaukee? Oh, Brogdon. Well, we don't count that one. I know, but I'm saying Dennis would have won Rookie of the Year hands down that year. All right.

So you got Mo Bamba, but you're voting for... I'm just going to ignore that. So you're picking Mo Bamba, but you're rooting for the Barnes and Five. A hundred percent. Yes. For Parsons and Fortran. Yes. All right. Jason Gallagher, what's your next video project for us? Probably more NBA desktop.

Okay. Great. I got to think about it. All right. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks, Phil. All right. This is one of. Thanks, Phil. All right. This is one of the three greatest moments of Kevin Clark's life.

Lifetime Orlando Magic fan gets to pick for the Magic in a mock draft and pick the guy he wants, which means they won't actually take that person. I'm turning the card in early. You know those picks where they just like, they don't even take the time on the clock. They just turn it in because they've got their guy.

Yeah. Trey Young. Trey Young, that's it. You're in because they've got their guy. Yeah. Trae Young. Trae Young, that's it. You're in. That's it. I'm in. I'm in. It's between a lot of mock drafts between Mo Bamba and Trae Young here.

I don't think it's much of a decision because- Well, Mo Bamba's off our board. Mo Bamba's off the board, but I'm saying in a lot of situations, that has been the decision. And for me, once I saw Trae Young was available, I just jumped at him. I think he's what the Magic need. There's a lot of potential downsides to him, but I just think what the Magic need to get out of their six-year tailspin is scoring, excitement, and superstar potential. And that's what Trae Young has. Bamba would be just an atrocious pick for them. You already have two centers. So that would seem like the most magical magic pick ever.

In KOC's draft guide, he calls Bamba a theoretical shooter, which is just the magic lead the league in theoretical shooters. That was Rob Hennigan drafted based on who the most theoretical shooter was. Mario Lozoni was a real shooter who became a theoretical shooter in Orlando. And so Trey Young is a legitimate guy who can score. I'm so glad he's there because he's exactly what the Magic need. So Trey Young goes to the Magic. Let's say it happens. Most fun player you've had since Penny Hardaway? Has there been a more fun Magic player on paper? I'm just going to say this,

and this might be a homework there. I won't laugh. I'll never laugh at you with the Magic. Are we totally sure the Hito Turkoglu wasn't fun in 2009? Steroids? The steroid era Hito Turkoglu? Well, everybody. I mean, we had some issues on that too,

but it's fine. I mean, no one's discounting. Sammy Sosa was fun. The Bash brothers were fun in Oakland no one had less of a good time everybody loved

the steroid era of baseball okay they had a steroid era for the Magic it was just as fun he knew that couple years when uh

he would just be at the top of the key and they would set him a pick and he would do weird Hito things and then shoot a three and it would go in

well the best was when Jameaine Nelson... And then it ended quickly. I wonder what... It's weird how sometimes guys test positive for fan substance, and then they tail off. So the best part of that team was when Jermaine Nelson got hurt, and then Hito could just handle the ball and cut out the middleman,

just go to the top of the key and shoot a three. It was a good time for me. So what... All right, walk me through. Trae Young comes to the Magic. Yeah. So Jonathan Isaac. Jonathan Isaac.

Vucevic, is he on the team again? I guess. I mean, we've been trying, we're in year four of trying to trade him, I guess.

He'll be off the team if you still try to trade him. And Biambo, you got two years left. We have two years left to Biambo. My suggestion for Vucevic is we trade him to 1997 when he would have been

really a valuable key player to a team. Like a time machine? Yeah, a time machine. Yeah, we just find someone in 1997, we give it to him. Trying to get back like, I'm trying to think of some shooter from 1997. Was Del Curry around still then? Maybe he was. Glenn Rice? Mitch Richmond? Yeah, Glenn Rice. Glenn Rice. Glenn Rice. 1997 Glenn Rice. It's a great trade. For a boot straight up. Okay, so I guess contracts wouldn't match up. But yeah, at this point- I like that that's your biggest problem

with the time machine trade, that there might be some contract issues. Not just the time machine part. That part's been solved, but I don't know if it fits within the salary cap. So the Magic don't have a lot of assets. No, it's amazing because you've picked in the top eight for the entire decade.

Haven't you? Yeah. Starting in 2013. Starting with the Dwight Howard year. Starting with Oladipo, who was second overall. This is your sixth straight year picking in the top seven, I'm going to say. Yeah, and not only that, but the return we got back for Dwight were first-round picks. Fooch, Mohawk.

The Dwight trade was great for orlando in retrospect yeah we won a lot of assets no one actually no nobody won everyone won that trade but if there was a winner it was like world war one yeah um so i say it all the time so the magic i don't know if you're asking me where they go from here yeah the answer is i don't know because i would assume at this point, Gordon, who I guess they'll match any offer. That's been the report. They will match any offer that they get for Aaron Gordon.

I'm okay with it just because we need to keep any semblance of talent that we have. Okay. You know how I stand. If I was other teams and I hear that Orlando says that, I would just immediately max the offer. Yeah. Just screw them over. I don't think the Magic need any help screwing themselves over. I would just immediately max the offer. Yeah. Just screw him over.

I don't think the Magic need any help screwing themselves over. I think it's going to be okay. Guys, we've got this. We've got this. Yeah, we're good. So you have Isaac who only played 30 games last year. We like Isaac though. We like Isaac a lot.

He's clearly the leader in the clubhouse for off-season puff pieces. He's putting on muscle. He's in the gym. We're going to have a three-point shot. Three-point shot. I'm all in on the puff piece circuit there for Jonathan Isaac. So I think we like Isaac,

but again, 30-game sample size, you never know. He established himself as a perimeter defender, which I like. I think Clifford can, and one of the reasons

I like Trey Young is I think that Clifford can scheme the defense into a point that it's okay. The fact that he's a limited defender doesn't worry me. I think that a Steve Clifford team can carry a T that it's okay. The fact that he's a limited defender doesn't worry me. I think that a Steve Kupfer team can carry a Trae Young on defense.

Okay. Trae Young, I'm trying to picture him in the uniform. I just see him with a sad look and a very ugly blue and black old-school Orlando uniform. The throwbacks? Just going two for 30. It could definitely happen. That's our worst case scenario.

Best case scenario is he becomes a star. It's Orlando. There's a Disney ride for him. Yeah. I don't know. I'm just trying to talk it through. He lives on a nice golf course somewhere.

Yeah. He becomes friends with Tiger Woods. Tiger left Orlando. He's in Jupiter now. Oh, he's gone. He doesn't come to the Magic Games anymore? Orlando's greatest asset has left. He needs a place to park his yacht.

So you know Orlando's biggest celebrity fan? Ian Poulter. Okay. Is it still me? You guys are in the finals. Is it still me? Bubba Watson. All right.

Well, congratulations. I hope this works out. Thank you. All right. Wanted to tell you about Courtside at the NBA Finals. It premieres June 19th, 9 p.m. on HBO. Re-airs 11 p.m. Same channel, HBO.

Also available on all the HBO platforms, HBO On Demand, HBO Go, all that stuff. It will be available right after the first episode premieres. I was at the finals for 11 or 12 days. Turned out to be sweet, but it was cool. The narratives were good. We wanted to create a show that resembled a little bit the shows I grew up with in the 1980s with, you know, after the season

ended, NBA Entertainment would put out these awesome one-hour specials about the finals with a whole bunch of cool camera shots and music and inside access all that stuff. We had some workarounds this time around. These guys are super famous. It's hard to just put mics on Steph Curry during a game.

But I liked where we landed. And I think the show is cool. And I think if you love basketball, I would definitely give this one a chance. Plus, you miss basketball. Basketball's been gone for like 10 days. So check it out. Courtside at the NBA Finals, June 19th, 9 p.m., HBO. And guess what?

The HBO Sports team is really, really talented. They're good at this stuff. So there it is. Back to the mock draft. All right, on the line right now, Robert Mays from The Ringer. Normally, he's a football guy and a Metallica guy. And he wrote a Gaslight Anthem oral history that was pretty great last week. But he's also a Bulls fan.

The Bulls on the clock at 7. It's been an up and down history for them. You know who's off the board at this point. Who would you take for the Bulls fan. The Bulls on the clock at seven. It's been an up and down history for them. You know who's off the board at this point. Who would you take for the Bulls at seven? I think I'd have to go with Michael Porter Jr. just because the upside is so tantalizing. It's hard to ignore. Obviously, the risks are

there in several different ways, but this is a team that is pretty much a blank slate in terms of their direction. They don't have many building blocks. It's not as if, well, he kind of overlaps with somebody else's skill set. No, I mean, there's so little to work with there that I think you just have to go for the guy that could be the biggest factor and have the biggest impact on the line. And I think that's him with the guys that are still left. Who would you compare?

Have you studied him? Have you been on YouTube watching Michael Porter clips? I was on YouTube watching Michael Porter clips last year because he went to Missouri. Oh, yeah, that's right. So he was going to my alma mater, and I was very excited about it, and then we didn't get to watch him play. So I'm familiar with him and have been for a while, and I just think that the weaknesses and the downside people see in his game, the fact that the shot selection is kind of erratic, he's not a very good ball handler in tight spaces, things like that, those are nitpicky to me. I think a high school kid that can dream just from

anywhere like he can with unlimited range is probably going to have a pretty terrible shot selection. So that I don't mind. I feel like when he settles into the NBA, those things will kind of fade. In my mind, it's more so the injury stuff and just overall just his his personality it seems to be creating on people but the game itself i'm very excited about it's seven i think he'd be impossible to pass up the personality it seems like there's a 50 chance he gets punched by bobby portis right that's exactly right 55 not sure somewhere somewhere in the 50s. It's probably better than 50-50. I'd go like 54%. Okay. Well, there's 46% chance he won't get punched.

And you kind of glossed over the health stuff, but that's the biggest reason that he would be available at number seven. Teams can't even see his medicals. We have really no idea what's totally wrong with him. It seems like there's a back issue, but I haven't even really heard a perfect explanation for it. Have you? No, I haven't either.

It was kind of shrouded in mystery when he was at Mizzou. People didn't know when he'd be coming back, if he would be coming back. And you think about back issues with not a small man. He's pushing 6'11". And that's the type of stuff that even being 19 is like, oh, God, that's exciting. But then having back issues at 19, you have to have pause with that. And that worries me.

But again, I just feel like he's the only guy remaining that you could take at seven and he could end up being the best player from this draft. Wendell Carter's solid. I like him. I like him on my basketball team. But I just think if you're the Bulls and you have so little going forward that are just the pillars of your franchise,

you need somebody that can be an all-star. Do you see any scenario where Porter and Markkinen are the two bigs on a team that's in the third round of the NBA playoffs? I don't think Porter's necessarily a big. I think he's a guy that can handle the ball a little bit on the outside. He can shoot. I think that's fine.

You just need the right players alongside them. I think you need, and the fact that Chris Dunn got a lot better last season, I'm not saying Chris Dunn is the building block of a playoff team, but a defense first point guard, somebody like that, you'd need a really solid defensive big man to pair with those guys. But I think that the type

of team can exist that you'd be excited about if those were your two best players. Okay. I'm less excited about that than you. Well, that's fine. I don't have much to work with right now. You've got to give me a chance. There's not much to be excited about with this franchise. I can tell you that right

now. This is the best option, I think, at seven that they could have. You wouldn't trade up or trade down? No, I don't think so. I mean, if Porter's there at seven, I think that would be the scenario that I'm happy with. Would you trade back to like 12 and try to get Tobias Harris for seven

if the Clippers were over the moon about somebody? Not if Porter was there. I'd rather have Michael Porter. He really is on Porter. He was the number one high school player a year ago, right? Yes. Yes. And that's the thing.

I just don't feel like we're that far removed from him being the guy that everyone loved. And it's so hard to turn away from how well he shoots at that size. And he has the requisite athleticism to be a good defender in the right situation. I just feel like there's too much there to walk away from if he's around except that would be the best case scenario.

Would you do Pilates with him to build up his core? So he would to reduce the pressure on his back. Sure. That sounds great. I probably have to start working out again anyway. So if he wants to come up here and do it, he's already here, actually. I think he lives in Chicago. So, yeah, if he's down, I'm available.

Would you take him to SoulCycle at 6 in the morning with your girlfriend, or no? I don't go to SoulCycle, okay? SoulCycle is not what I do. SoulCycle is kind of weird. I'm not going to get into the particulars of my workout routine, but if he would like to be a part of it, then I'm more than willing.

All right, so this is a bonus for Michael Porter. You'll be workout buddies. You'll be like Hans and Franz. You'll be workout buddies. That sounds great. If he wants some help getting to know Chicago, if he wants me to show him around, that's fine. We're still in the NFL offseason.

I've got some time. I'd be more than willing. How would you describe your feelings about Gar Foreman and John Paxson in one word after all these years? Complicated. Okay. I mean, it seems like you might have won the Jimmy Butler trade. I don't know.

There's way too many emotions involved with that. For me to just come out and say, yeah, it was a clear victory. It's not bad. The whole effect of Markin has actually turned into a useful player, I mean, all that stuff is exciting, and I'm happy about it, but I still watch Jimmy Butler play and just get pangs into my chest because I miss him so much. Yeah, but I think he would have been unhappy in that

whatever you could have gotten for him would have just started to drop as the next two years went along, would be my take. It was time. It was time. I wouldn't have been upset if it happened the year before just because i think that something drastic needed to go down for this team to get out of the muck that it had been mired in and this was it that should be your next ring or oral history is just what the hell happened on the 2017 bulls the weirdest chemistry team i don't want to do that. I don't want to know. I have no interest in doping into that. That's my own personal health.

No, thank you. Give me another assignment. I'll take it. But that's not what I'm going to wade into willingly at all. The over-under on guys getting their jaw broken by a teammate was probably like two and a half. So you went under on that.

You only had one. It could have been more. It's a real rosy outlook. Robert Mayss always a pleasure talk to you soon see ya alright the ringers Mark Titus on the line

host of One Shining Podcast America's favorite college basketball podcast although now it's more now it's more than just college basketball you know what the order

has been so far I think you didn't hear the rest of this podcast, but I think you would have enjoyed the most of any moment during the podcast. Chris Vernon passionately declaring Marvin Bagley the best player in the draft and being in disbelief that Memphis got him at four. So there. So you have a partner in crime on that. You're picking for Cleveland at eight.

You have two choices here. You can pick the player that you think they would take if they thought LeBron was coming back or the player you think they would take if they're hedging their bets for if LeBron comes back or if he leaves, either way, they'll be happy. So what did you decide? So first of all, I think they have to trade the pick, right? If we're talking like the real draft, if they they have to trade the pick, right? Like, if we're talking, like, the real draft, if they're trying to keep LeBron, like, they have to get more talented players.

LeBron is not going to get excited about whoever they pick at number eight. The only assets they have are the eighth pick and Kevin Love. I think they have to trade this pick, right, if they're trying to keep LeBron. But for the purposes of this exercise, in my view, that's it. Like, they have to trade the pick to keep LeBron, but for the purposes of this exercise, um, I, in my view, that's it. Like they have to trade the pick to keep LeBron or if they're assuming LeBron's gone, then you don't even worry about it. I don't think there's anybody that they can draft at number eight, basically. That's like, okay, now LeBron is staying.

Uh, so I, I had two different thoughts. My, my first thought was, I really thought Trey young should be the guy. I think like if LeBron leaves, just swing for the fences and take like the most boom or bust player probably in the draft. But then I think it was Kevin Clark took Trae Young, right? Yeah. Took him off the board for me. And then I started thinking about it more and it flipped the other way.

I was like, Cleveland is going to be put in a situation if LeBron leaves that these next five years are huge. I am very fearful as an Ohioioan that the cleveland cavaliers cavaliers will never be relevant again um i think they just got to like basically stop the bleeding for these next five years and take the guy that makes the most sense the best player that's probably available at this point in the draft the best two-way wing in the draft mikhail bridges um so that is my pick i think you know he my biggest flaw is an as an NBA GM whenever we do these sorts of things is I always like the guys who are good players now, which is why I'm also excited about Marvin

Bagley. I like the guys that just like, I see you. I see how good you are right now. I need you on my team. Mikael Bridges, best player on Villanova. Jalen Brunson, one national player of the year. Tate and I were talking about this on our podcast all year about how Jalen Brunson is not even the best player on his team.

Um, Mikael Bridges was definitely the best player on that team. Uh, he's a winner, all that kind of stuff. Everything. I love everything about his game. I think he's the best player at the number eight spot.

So I think that's what the Cavs have to do. And what's interesting about that pick is he works for either direction. If LeBron leaves, it's still good to have him on the team and he could still do stuff. What NBA player would you compare him to? The one he always gets is Kerry Kittles, but I think that's just because they both went to Villanova. Kerry Kittles?

Yeah, I know. I've heard Kerry Kittles. Maybe that's just Tate. Tate always says Kerry Kittles. Kerry Kittles. I don't see that one at all. I was thinking, to me, it seemed like in our Ring Around Bay draft guide, we had Robert Covington, Eddie Jones, Tony Snell.

Which Tony Snell, I think, is insulting. Right. But could he be like a better version of Robert Covington? I actually think he could. Could he be a rich man's Robert Covington? Yeah, absolutely. And if you're getting that, that's a great guy to have because everybody in the league, you need those multiple,

you need that guy to stop multiple scorers on each team. They certainly don't have that guy, as we witnessed in the playoffs. I think, yeah, he's definitely not the best player on a championship team. But at number eight, I think we're at that point where those guys are off the board, right? You have to start thinking otherwise. I don't know. I went to game four of the finals with you at the

Factory of Sadness, and it did get sad in the crowd in the fourth quarter. There was a feeling of gloom that was looming. You got sad. You stopped talking for a while. It just was... It got super sad in there. It wasn't,

it wasn't even like really that, I thought there would be like a big standing O MVP chant and it was different. It was just, it just got sad. Unlike every other team, this is not about LeBron leaving. This is like,

as soon as LeBron leaves, it's not like, okay, well, cool. That was fun that we had LeBron. Now let's try to go get the next great player. I think there's this understanding that when LeBron leaves Cleveland,

the Cavs very well may be irrelevant for the next two decades, if not longer. Yeah. And that's, I think, played into it. Well, if you're still on pace of winning a lottery every two and a half years, I think you'll be fine. That's basically what's happened since 2003, right? You've won four lotteries in, I guess that would be every four years.

So you just got to keep that pace for the rest of the decade. Do you think there's any chance? I'm trying to think what the trade would be. I think Love would have to go in whatever trade it was. And I actually think he's underrated. And I was thinking about Indiana, your other favorite team. Is there a Miles Turner, Kevin Love type trade that would carve out some cap space for Cleveland?

Then you get Mikael Bridges and you just kind of sell LeBron on a younger team that he can grow into. I like that trade for both teams. I don't think LeBron likes that. If I'm LeBron, yeah. I honestly think

the only way they're keeping LeBron is if they find a way to get... They have to get Kawhi or something of that caliber, or Paul George or something. They have to swing for the fences. The problem is they have no assets. That's a problem because you need assets for trades usually. Yes, usually.

Usually how it works. Yeah, I don't know if CJ McCollum is enough to keep him. Like if Portland for some reason said, hey, cool, we'll trade you CJ for the eighth pick, which I don't even think they would, and then they'd have to take one of the terrible Cleveland contracts back. I don't think that's enough. I don't think they have would. And then they'd have to take one of the terrible Cleveland contracts back. I don't think that's enough. I don't think they have enough to get Kawhi.

And really, all you have is guilt. That's what you have to play this time as an entire city. You just have to make him feel bad. I'm crossing my fingers. Trae Young falls to Cleveland. He's terrible for the first two or three years. And they run it back with winning the lottery those two or three years. They run it back with winning the lottery those two or three years.

That's kind of their path. Suddenly, Trey Young figures it out in year five or six. Maybe that's how they come back. One Shiny Podcast Tuesday on the Ringer Podcast Network. You and Tate Frazier will be doing all your last-minute

draft stuff. I'm looking forward to that. Thank you for coming on. Yep. One more break to talk about Callaway. They've been a terrific partner for us since day one. Their new Rogue driver, relatively new, delivers exceptional ball speed and real breakthrough in driver performance. Check it out at CallawayGolf.com. And for the best in professional golf talk, check out the Shack House podcast with Joe House and Jeff Shackleford.

It is presented by Callaway on the Ringer Podcast Network. They broke down the U.S. Open as it was happening. Sunday night, they had the big reaction of Brooks Koepka winning his second straight U.S. Open. Pretty great. I was also excited that Curtis Strange realized that nobody now, he's not the back-to-back guy. Now it's Brooks Koepka. Hard name to say. Phil Mickelson's complete meltdown

on Saturday. DJ not being able to get it going. They talk about all that in the Shack House. Check it out. The Shack House podcast presented by Callaway on the Ringer Podcast Network. Alright, back to the mock draft. Alright, the Knicks are up at number nine.

If you've noticed a recurring theme on this podcast is that the Ringer has a lot of sad, traumatized NBA fans. None more than this man, Jason Concepcion. It's been a tough haul. Low these last 15 to 18 years. It might even be more than that. Might even be more than that. 19 years? It might've be more than that. Might even be more than that.

19 years? It might have been more than that. When was your last happy Knicks team? I guess 2013 was fun for about six months. That was fun. You know, Linsanity was great for three weeks. Yeah. And then, I'm trying to think, the Carmelo fight was awesome.

I enjoyed the Carmelo fight. Marty Collins. Oh, man, Marty Collins. Let me tell you, Larry Brown loved Marty Collins. Yeah, he really did. Sprewell, give the finger to Dolan was fun, even though you're the recipient of that. I enjoyed that quite a bit.

I think he became the avatar for all of us Knicks fans in that moment. Rough, rough century for Knicks fans. It's been tough, yeah. Last year, the Knicks took Frankie Nicotine, who we haven't given up on. There's no reason to give up on him. Yeah, the offense needs to come around, but he's already one of the elite defensive players in the league on the perimeter. Shades of Mookie Blaylock.

I love Mookie Blaylock. The name of Pearl Jam before they were Pearl Jam. Right. So the problem with the Knicks is they screwed up last year's draft. They took Frankie Nicotine, who we like, but didn't take Donovan Mitchell, who is a game-changing young player. That has become increasingly tougher in the rearview mirror to look at that. Poor Zingas blows out his knee about 40% into the season.

And then somehow all of this doesn't translate to the Knicks getting even a top eight pick. You land at nine. They didn't tank correctly. I will say about my son, Chris Asporzink, has recently photographed jumping off of a yacht into, I believe, the waters of the Mediterranean with a beautiful young woman on the deck of the ship. So I think the healing is coming along nicely. Okay. And please don't blow out your knee jumping off of a yacht into the waters of the Mediterranean. How wacky do we think he is on a scale of one to ten?

He's one of the most shameless dudes out here on the social media streets that we've seen. It's actually wild. So you're picking ninth for us. Yes. You know who the first eight picks were? Yes. I know from- From the email that was sent yesterday.

From the email that was sent out. So who do you have? I am going to select Colin Sexton. Oh. Colin with two Ls. Colin with two L's. Colin with two L's. Point guard has been a position of need for the Knicks since Rod Strickland.

Yeah. So, love to get a guy who really competes at that position. Obviously, there's some downsides when you're picking at eight. You can't help but have to deal with that. Not to mention you picked a point guard last year. Yes. There's that. Same as Frankie, not a great shooter.

Yeah. Questionable scoring skills. Does draw a lot of fouls, which I like, but really competes. I just don't think you can have enough perimeter defenders in the league. If he is a poor man's Patrick Beverly, I like it. So this is a competitiveness character pick for you.

He's, he's a very athletic, super competitive, kind of one of those guys who comes through when it matters, response to the crowd type of guys. Yes. And he's 19. So like,

there's, there's a lot of, um, there's a lot of room to grow there. And I think also when looking at his stats, you have to realize he carried all the load at Alabama. He did everything. So he took a lot of tough shots because he was taking all the shots and he was the guy everybody keyed on.

So I'm bullish on him and as i said need a point guard you know like who's who's the point guard of the future is it frank is it sex and is it is it moody a like just like they just need to they need to take as many swings at at point guard as they can the knicks uh theicks and point guards over the last 30 years has been really spectacular. Yeah, spectacular is a word for it. Somehow you've had half of the point guards who have ever played in the NBA over the last 30 years.

All the washed up guys from the 90s made a cameo. They at least did a stop by. Getting Mark Jackson back the second time. Oh yeah, you got Mark Jackson back the second time. It's amazing Steve Nash didn't have his one totally washed finish his career

with the Knicks season he used this kind of like his leverage at one point yeah he did you know that's we need a point guard

and everybody knows it everybody knows it he used his leverage and it led to the Knicks signing Landry Fields for three years for like 25 billion love Landry Fields

that was rough you should be mad at Steve Nash Landry Fields' three years for like 25 billion. Love Landry Fields. That was rough. You should be mad at Steve Nash for that. Landry Fields' one year should go up there as part of Mike D'Antoni's Hall of Fame case. Linsanity and Landry Fields? 100%. Yeah.

All right. So you think Frankie Smokes and Sexton can play together except for the part that the outside shooting has gone completely South. Right now shooting, not that important in today's league as I understand it. Uh, yeah, the shooting is,

is a huge concern, but, but maybe you could save money with the shooting coach. Cause the shooting coach is there with both of them at the same time. It's like a two for one. Sexton shot like 76, 77% from the free throw line so i feel like there's a good sign there's a good basis for him being at least an okay shooter he shot like 33 from three

not great but also not totally abysmal like i i and he's 19 again i feel like uh with reps the shooting can come around and like you have marcus smart on your team yeah can't shoot at all important guy for your team i think there is some marcus smart but he's a much better uh he's a much more creative yeah if sex and can do the dribble guy if sex and can develop into that kind of impact defender on the perimeter like that's a useful player. I am excited for the handshakes with him and Enos Kanter and the chest bumps and the screaming after dunks

and stuff like that. Enos Kanter is going to be Colin Sexton's biggest fan. Any draft pick that they take at eight is going to be, Enos Kanter is going to be that person's biggest fan. What's your sad factor with the Knicks right now? Last questions, one to 10. My sad factor? Yeah.

I mean, you've had sadder moments as a Knicks fan, but this feels like a seven and a half. I'm going to put it at six. Okay. I'm not totally sad. There's some glimmers of hope there, but obviously a lot of work to do. I think Fisdale has shown himself to be an elite culture guy

in these weeks since he's been hired. Just in the way he's presenting himself. So that would be the narrative this year is culture. Culture. We got to build the culture out. Sex is a culture guy. Culture guy. Fizz is a culture guy.

Frank, culture guy. You got professionals. That's right. I like it. That's what we need. Change the culture. You can't change the owner though. No, I mean, that's the issue.

That's part of the problem. JC, we will see you on NBA Desktop this week. Yes, that's correct. Got like four more for the season, then we'll take a break. Yes. And Binge Mode Harry Potter, which I promoted before.

Woo! Yeah, hardest working man in show business. Thank you. Thank you, Bill. All right, picking 10th for the Philadelphia 76ers, the new GM of the Philadelphia 76ers, Chris Ryan. Congratulations.

Thanks, Bill. They haven't announced it yet. What are they waiting for? Yeah, I don't know. It must be maybe they're just going to do a press conference or something. I'm not aware of yet. So we do this story and the GM ends up leaving the team. But it's also your favorite team and now you don't have a GM

and your coach is running your draft. It takes a village. Yeah. But your coach is running your draft. Well, I think there's a couple people. Mark Eversley, Elton Brand, Brett Brown. They're all working on it together. Brett Brown wasn't watching college basketball during the season. He's like me. He's parachuting in.

Neither was I. And I'm here doing a draft. Brett Brown's on YouTube at three in the morning. Oh, Colin Sexton. I like this guy. So who do you have? Who do you want them to take? Let's go there and make that pick

but then we can talk about who you who you would hope falls to them at 10 yeah so in terms of you want me to draft within the within our our draft or within like my recap the draft actually for the for the listeners so I might have blacked out at some point all right so first pick Charks took DeAndre Ayton for Phoenix. Second pick, Luka Doncic for Sacramento from Riley. Third pick, Jaron Jackson to Atlanta from Danny Chow. Fourth pick, Marvin Bagley from a fired up Chris Vernon. Nice. Who's all in.

Really wanted him. Fifth pick, Jason Gallagher took Mo Bamba for Dallas and was sad about it. It was actually sad. Sixth pick, Trey Young. Kevin Clark took him for Orlando and was sad about it. It was actually sad. Sixth pick, Trey Young. Kevin Clark took him for Orlando. Was excited about that. Seventh pick, Michael Porter from a very scared Robert Mace. Eighth pick, Mikael Bridges goes to Cleveland, thanks to Mark Titus.

Ninth pick, Colin Sexton to the Knicks from Jason Concepcion. Now you're on the clock at 10 with the Sixers. So after years of rolling my eyes at Al Horford and all of Al Horford's many advanced analytics poets in the NBA media, and then after watching Al Horford be the best player on the floor for a lot of the Eastern Conference playoffs,

especially in the Sixers series, I am going to draft the next Al Horford, Duke's Wendell Carter. Oh. I got to say, this was the one pick that shocked me yesterday because of how many big guys the Sixers have taken in drafts this century. This is why I wouldn't be a good GM. This is why you wouldn't be a good GM. This is why I would not be a good GM.

My heart is so set on Mikael Bridges that I don't know what to do now. Yeah. I don't have a plan B. So I've come up with this one, which is essentially Embiid insurance and a guy who does the little things. So Titus broke your heart two picks ago. Yeah. You wanted Bridges because he's like basically the rich man's Robert Covington.

Right. And if this happens to the Sixers and Kobe Altman breaks up the Sixers plans, we're in a lot more trouble than I thought we were. But yeah, I basically really wanted a guy who is a slightly more mature three and D one, two national titles. Don't overthink this best player on the best team really just seems like he could just plug and play right into the Sixers system. And I don't have that.

So I'm looking around and I'm thinking, okay, Lonnie Walker, SGA, Knox, these guys are all in differing levels projects. And I'm kind of post-projects. You're post-projects. Yeah, yeah. I want something that's a little bit more of a short thing. Even if that short thing has a lower ceiling. Can I make the case for Kevin Knox?

Go ahead. So the Sixers blew it with Tatum last year. Knox is not going to be as good as Tatum, but does some of the things that Tatum would have done hypothetically on that Sixers team last year, the Sixers that had him. It's like a second chance and he's young. He's, I think, the second youngest guy in this draft out of the Jaron Jackson and the top 14. He's not even 19 yet. Six,

nine can create a shot, can shoot threes. Wouldn't that make more sense? Can he shoot threes? He feels, Kevin Knox feels very Jeff green to me. Well, so the fear is there's Tatum fumes from last year where it's like,

he could be Tatum. And it's like, no, actually Jason Tatum is Jason Tatum. Yeah. This other guy is as tall as Jason Tatum and kind of shoots similarly. Kentucky guys are really hard to pick.

You know that they have a certain amount of athleticism, but the way Calipari uses his dudes at Kentucky is really difficult to project them into their NBA selves. Devin Booker wound up being a pick and roll guy. Towns wound up being this stretch four. And that's not how they play at Kentucky. Yeah. I was never blown away watching Knox at Kentucky.

I was way more into SGA. So I don't know. I liked what I saw of Wendell Carter. I liked a lot. What I've read about Wendell Carter, I like a lot. Well, it does seem like out of all these guys available, he's the one that could easily also go like fifth. Yeah.

And Kevin O'Connor wrote a very convincing thing on The Ringer today about why Wendell Carter might be a better pick than Marvin Bagley. Right. So thinking about the Sixers team, what you have, Embiid, if he's playing 29, 30 minutes a game, that 18 minutes when Embiid's not in there is crucial. And you had Amir Johnson and he's Darius Arch playing out of position. And for some reason, they never played Holmes, which I never really understood. He's an energy guy, but I think he makes a lot of mistakes and coaches hate mistakes.

Yeah. Okay. So Carter comes in, there's your 18 minutes right there. Yes. And you're in bead protection if he goes down again. Okafor's gone. Absolutely. And he's trade bait potentially too. Yeah. And then if you get Ben Simmons into the cutting to the basket zone that's really nice to have because Carter's a really good

passing big man so you start having Carter passing out of the off the nail to like a cutting Ben Simmons or a cutting Fultz or you know or Embiid backdoor I think it's really like I like what he does immediately and also everything you read about him sets the screens, good kid,

like does all this stuff, is defensively like way farther advanced than a lot of dudes in this draft. And it seems like he was, got a semi-raw deal at Duke. Yeah, well, he was playing behind Bagley. And when Bagley got hurt, he looked really good.

And then Bagley came back. I think you talked me into this one. Okay. You would trade up though, right Bagley came back. I think you talked me into this one. Okay. You would trade up though, right? In a heartbeat. I don't know. It seems like it's a two-person draft to me in terms of like that,

or you want to give stuff up for it. Also, I got to tell you, man, I am pretty haunted by trading up. That's not like my favorite thing to hear right now. So they'll never trade. So if Memphis called you and said, we'll do four for 10 and faults right now, after faults. So they'll never trade. So if Memphis called you and said, we'll do four for 10 and faults right now,

you wouldn't do it? And what's, what am I getting at four here? Marvin Bagley. No. I'd rather, I mean, honestly, like,

What if Atlanta called you and said, we'll do three for faults and 10? You can take Jaron Jackson. I'm okay. You're good. Yeah.

I think Wendell Carter is more ready to play than Jaron Jackson. Wow. Chris Ryan coming in hot. All right. That's it for Philly. You're good. Yeah. I think Wendell Carter is more ready to play than Jaron Jackson. Wow. Chris Ryan coming in hot. All right. That's it for Philly.

Thanks, Chris Ryan. You got it. All right. Pick an 11. Our old friend, Tate Frazier. Good to be back. You're back. Yeah.

You graduated from us. Now you're like a podcast host. You can come back. Every once in podcast host. You can come back. Every once in a while, you can come back. Please, whenever you want me to. You're picking for your beloved Charlotte Horne. It's a number 11. It's a tough pick. It's a tough time.

I think it's a new era in Charlotte, as you know. We got Mitch Kupchak, who has come out and said that he and Michael Jordan are not friends. What does that mean? He was trying to say, basically, I'm not going to default to what Michael says just because we have a past friendship. And he even came out and was like, we don't even have that great of a friendship. We knew each other tangentially, but it was more of a- We both love Dean Smith.

Yeah, it was a business thing. Just because we went to Carolina doesn't mean we're going to agree on everything. So I think the interesting thing now is to see, I think Jordan last year made the Monk pick. I think that was his pick. I think Mitchell was who they wanted to take and then Jordan came in the last hour and was like no we're going to take Malik Monk do you think Charlotte wanted to take Mitchell well that was the plan last year because they wanted to get the Kimba replacement to get get the get the point guard for the future you bring him in let him mature under Kimba and then Monk was on the table

so they go hey we're going to go for best player available Michael loves him because he had 47 against Carolina Michael Jordan only watches Carolina basketball games yeah I do like Monk was on the table. So they go, hey, we're going to go for best player available. Michael loves him because he had 47 against Carolina. Michael Jordan only watches Carolina basketball games. I do like Monk. So that's what happened last year. And I think this year, if a similar situation were to happen, say Michael Porter Jr. is on the board. If Michael Jordan says, I want to take Michael Porter Jr., I think Mitch Kupchak says, no, we take who we're going to take.

So it's a new time, which is nice. And then Michael Jordan said, no, you didn't hear me. We're going to take Michael Porter. He just sends the card in. Yeah. This is what we're actually doing. So you like who at 11? 11, I like Kevin Knox.

Okay. I think they're going to go back-to-back Wildcats with the Calipari kids and bring him in. I think, as you know, Michael, you know, Michael Gilchrist,

number two pick, hasn't quite, you know, panned out. He's had some injuries, some shoulder problems. He still doesn't have a jump shot. They need a small forward. And I think Knox is a guy that they all seem to like.

They worked him out. They were a little worried about his shooting. He shot like 34% from three last year. But I don't know. I think they buy into Kevin Knox and go for the 6'9 guy and have Marvin Williams and MKG kind of mature and make him grow up a little bit in his first year. I made the case with Chris Ryan that the Sixers should take Kevin Knox. I, I think they need a wing and I think it's either Bridges or Knox, right? That's good.

Can he shoot threes? Can who shoot threes? Knox. Are you happy with his three points? No. And I think that's the biggest thing. Yeah. Well, he has a great mid range game. It just seems like the biggest thing is people say he doesn't have a motor. That's one of his biggest knocks, which is tough. And then, you know, the three-point shooting 34% is not great. But I don't know if he has to be that guy in his first year in Charlotte because Kimba, you know, shoots all the time. The fear is it's like the Luke Kennard thing that happened last year where we had this whole sample size to watch somebody play basketball

against other players. The season ends. Then we go to the workouts. We were like, Luke Kennard killed his workout yesterday. Yeah, he made 93 out of 103. Can't believe how well he worked out against nobody. Yeah. And then we do this every year.

And it seems like Kevin Knox is this year's workout guy. On the other hand, he's young. And I like getting young dudes. I like the fact that he's not even 19 yet. On the other hand, that was the case for James Young when the Celtics took him. He's so young. He got all this playoff or this big game experience already. He's a baby. And then it's like he goes to the NBA and he can't even handle anything. Absolutely. And I think the thing with Knox too is that a lot of people are worried about what position is he going to play can he even play

the three does he have the handles to play the three or we're gonna have to slide them down to the four the Hornets do need a small or a power forward because Kaminsky hasn't quite worked out you know as you remember that trade I did that non-trade yeah that Michael Jordan didn't want to do so that's why it's a new era so I think uh people are worried about that and I think there could be a world in which the Hornets want to go to a power forward and they take a Robert Williams and people are freaked out because they can't believe that they picked a guy this high. So your tax, Michael Jordan, your favorite athlete ever. Yes.

You ride or die with MJ over LeBron, like nobody on this ringer staff except for maybe me. But the tax of the joy that Michael Jordan brought is that he's a terrible owner. And it's just, you know, we just have to deal with it. We're happy to have Michael in Charlotte. It's nice. Unfortunately, you know, most of the time he's in Nassau in the Bahamas, you know, but we take him when he's in town.

It's like having a crazy parent. Yeah. And my mom didn't come over for father's day yesterday. I still have no idea why she just wasn't available. So it's all right. That's my mom. Michael is not available to us. He's definitely not emotionally available. He definitely doesn't talk it's alright that's my mom Michael is not available to us he's definitely

not emotionally available he definitely doesn't talk to the people that much he does the fundraiser you know a little bit but that's about it I think right now though

with Kupchak being there he's going to listen to Kupchak because he respects a lot of the people he had he just sort of overrode all their decisions

and I think with Kupchak he'll finally have to listen to him I mean I have to mention Kupchak left the L have to listen to him. I mean I have to mention Kupchak left the Lakers because he overpaid Louis Valdang and Tim Maguskov and completely destroyed their

cap space and did such a bad job in LA that they couldn't even land players who wanted to go there like LaMarcus Aldridge and I'm not even sure Kevin Durant met with them No, I think that was Now that's your new GM there like LaMarcus Aldridge. And I'm not even sure Kevin Durant met with them. No. I think that was... Now that's your new GM.

Well, and you... That's not good. You've made the joke all the time that he wakes till 12 o'clock in the free agency and plays it by the... He's very old school in that matter of fact way. But the good thing about Charlotte is no one's coming there as a free agent. I mean, Batum was the biggest thing and that was because we gave him $120 million. Of course, he's going to come to Charlotte.

I don't think they're going to be in the free agent game. I honestly think that Jordan wants to shred money. He doesn't want to pay all these guys. They're almost in the luxury tax. I could see them taking that 11 pick, maybe drafting a guy like, if Michael Porter Jr. is on the board, or Shea Gilgish-Alexander that people like around the league

and trying to take that with the player, shred some salary and make a trade. I think Kupchak wants to trade the pick. Yeah. Well, somebody's going to fall because it seems like the draft goes 10 deep and then it drops. Yeah. But somebody always makes a mistake in the 10.

Mitchell. Donovan Mitchell is the thing that haunts that team. I think it haunts Michael Jordan because I think he knows that Mitchell was the guy that should have taken. I never knew that story. I had known that the Knicks were very close with him. And then there was one other team. Was it the Pistons, right?

When they took Kennard? I think the Pistons were in on Kennard. They saw that workout. I think SVG was like, did you see that workout? Reminds me of Turkoglu, yeah. I met Mitchell at the finals and he was like such an impressive guy. Yeah. He's like a 38-year-old guy already. And you would think like the whole rookie t-shirt thing would kind of phase him a little bit when

people were kind of giving the backlash. He was like, yeah, I'm still going to wear it because I am a rookie. Sorry. Well, I don't know whether to tell you congratulations, but thanks for making the case for Kevin Knox. I don't think there's any congratulations to be had, but I do think if Knox comes in and they replace MKG with Knox, that's enough. The good news is you have North Carolina basketball. That's right. Yeah. You always have that. All right. Thanks, Dave Frazier. Of course. Thanks, Bill. Up next, 12 and 13, the Clippers. Which pick did they get for Blake Griffin? 12 or 13? 12. 12 from Detroit. Yes. 12. Yeah. One of my favorite trades in a while. They dumped an

onerous contract. they got Tobias Harris back who I like they got Boban who has become a ringer favorite and then on top of that they got the 12th pick

what else you got one more thing right didn't we get Avery Bradley and then he's Avery Bradley maybe yes so

we have Isaac who's producing today's podcast long time Clipper fan KOC the ringers draft girl Celtics aren't in the top 14 you could we couldn't have you pick for them we decided to make you co-gms for these two picks one of the picks is obvious the other pick is not that obvious so with the 12th pick are you taking we took miles bridges out of michigan state there's no debate between me and isaac and i have

a for this debate what's there isaac no i mean he's a surefire pick. He's not going to be bad. You see him in college. He's a role player. He's not going to be a star necessarily, but he'll be a good player, maybe off the bench, maybe a fifth starter for a long time in the league. He's not going to be bad. And that's as a baseline.

He could become a really, really high-level player if his offense continues to develop, because there are some things I don't think he got to show within Michigan State's system. But within the NBA, projecting ahead, maybe he develops go-to scoring abilities on top of what he already has as a complimentary, athletic, spot-up shooter who attacks closeouts and can do a little bit off the dribble. There's a lot of potential there. So you have on the Ringer's NBA Draft Guide, presented by State Farm, we compared him shades of Derek Coleman and Tobias Harris. Interesting fact. I don't know if you guys know this.

Tobias Harris is on the Clippers. Yes. I actually like when there's weird redundant with forwards who are like, is that a power forward, a small forward? What is that person? But then you have two of them. I liked when the Morris brothers played together in Phoenix. I thought it was effective.

It would be interesting having both those guys on the same team. Cause Tobias Harris, I feel like he's underrated in a way. Cause look, he's only going to be 26 this year. Nearly average 20 points per game. Super efficient. He's gotten better over the years.

I don't think, I don't think we should discount him as being like a very important player on a contending type of team so you wouldn't trade Tobias Harris 12 and 13 for number 2? Never for Doncic, you wouldn't do that it would have to be Doncic, I would have to know that it's Doncic I'm saying 2

I'm going to call you and say we'll give you number 2 and here's what we want you have to take Zach Randolph's contract back Zeebo 2.0 in the close. Yeah, I mean, I would consider that, and I probably would end up pulling that trigger. We would say yes to that deal. Yeah, we would say yes to that.

If it's Luka, everything's out the window. Take Tobias Harris, take whatever. So Luka, to you, is a 130 cents on the dollar guy. Sure, yeah. Because that's basically what philly paid for faults last year you do it if the guy's a sure thing yeah i mean like you know me charx and danny all have luca number one in and having him number one in this year's class which has a lot of really strong prospects i think i think is an indicator like this is the guy in this draft at least in my heart i mean i think he is the guy that if you're going to trade up trade up for luca and your gut feeling is that he goes in the top two that all this is

smoke yeah i mean i still think top three for him you know even if sacramento takes michael porter or marvin bagley at two i don't see how atlanta could pass on him at three i just can't see i feel like if phoenix shocked everyone and took Jaron Jackson number one, you wouldn't flip out? If they took Jaron Jackson over DeAndre Ayton? Yeah. I would be super, super shocked, and I think it would be the wrong choice. Okay.

So you would take, you still have the tier of Ayton, Doncic, and then it drops to Jackson. Yeah, Jackson and Bamba and that whole group there. I still feel like Jackson is a sure thing. Jackson's going to be really, really good. I'm a Michigan State fan, so I'm biased. But Jackson is like, I think he falls in those surefire picks. He's not going to be bad.

Can I just point something out, though? Please. With Jaron Jackson, he had more fouls per 100 possessions than Marquise Chris, more than Carl Anthony Towns as a freshman. I don't like that. Yeah, but did you watch Michigan state? Tom Izzo did not do a good job with that team. Sure.

Sure. But Jaron Jackson, there's, there's no, he's going to be a good player, right? He's going to be a good player, but to be an elite defender,

he's going to have to cut down his fall rate. And other, other great defenders have had high files or fall rates as freshmen. Joaquin Noah did Joel and B did. So there's a chance he goes down that path, but there's also a chance he has difficulties not biting at pump fakes, not chasing every block that's available like

Carl Anthony Towns. There's no such thing as a guarantee, but I would bet on him going down the other path. Man, this would have been a rough podcast for Jaron Jackson. Seriously. We talked him up early, and now it's flipped on him. The KOC just with the Kevin Obama off the top rope.

I'm in the process of like, do I want to have Jaron Jackson ahead of this guy or that guy? I don't think I can put him ahead of Bamba. What? Really? You take Bamba over Jackson. Here we go. Sorry. I didn't know this was going to happen. I didn't know this was going to happen either. Because we had Gallagher

begrudgingly take B bed five come on jason he didn't even feel that great about it he's gonna say the only reason he did it was because you whipped a glass of bomba kool-aid at his face and he still had the i did the dna from the kool-aid and i did it's true so i did do that so you you're all in on this is going to be the hill that you die on this year that mo bomba is going to be the hill that you die on this year. That Mo Bamba is going to be a really, really good player. Last year's hill was Jason Tatum, which was a great hill. It's a pretty good hill, yeah. What was the year before?

16. Simmons, Brown. It depends. Around that time, in Boston Sports Media, I was going to radio shows, and everybody's saying Jalen Brown's a non-shooter. And I was like, no, Ben Simmons is a non-shooter. Jalen Brown can shoot. It's just a matter of what level he reaches as a shooter.

And he's exceeded expectations. So you were on the Jalen Brown can shoot. It's just a matter of what level he reaches as a shooter. And he's exceeded expectations. So you were on the Jalen Brown hill in the 16th? Yeah, kind of. What was the last bad hill you were on? Jalil Okafor? No, I mean, I had Okafor at number two, which feels so dumb in hindsight. Yeah, we didn't know. But I'm not sure if I was on a hill, but that was a really bad one.

Having Brandon Ingram ahead of Ben Simmons. The Laurie Marquette in F+. Yeah, I'm still happy with my Lowry evaluation. I'm happy with it. Oh, I love that. This is great. The F+, in the moment, Ruby was sitting there like, I need a grade.

And I was like, F+, because I thought the deal was bad, giving the 16th pick in the draft. I still think that was silly. Yeah, they shouldn't have done that. The F+, was a mistake. It should have been like a C plus for the pick. Do you still hear it from the Bulls fans about Laurie? All the time.

It's the funniest thing. Listen, you can't go 100% on these. Of course not. Miles Bridges, is he a starter for the Clippers in the next two years? You think so, right? Yeah, I think he can start at the two next to Toby Harris or Toby Harris at four and him at three.

But I think Miles Bridges projects to be kind of like a good Jay Crowder, maybe. A good Jay. He's thick-framed. He can guard threes and fours. That's a good thing. Yeah, that's a good player to have. I like a good Jay Crowder. Jay Crowder on Utah was pretty good, I thought.

Yeah, absolutely. And he had some moments with the Celts. KOC and I were trying to warn everybody that he was overrated, but now he's like weirdly underrated. So Harris, Bridges, Boban. Boban at the five if DeAndre leaves. DeAndre's not leaving. He's staying?

You think he's staying for sure? I don't think that money's out there for him. I think he's going to opt in. I do. He's going to opt in this year, but you're saying two years down the road, who knows what will happen. Yeah, but I'm saying next season he's there. Yeah, next season he's there.

Because he's not getting $24 million. Oh, no way. This is something we discuss when discussing who are we going to pick. It's like, well, is DJ going to opt in or are we going to let that influence our decision? And ultimately it was no, we're not. I'll say you have Gallo.

We have Gallo. For the 38 games he'll play. Yeah. Before he gets like playing for San Jose. Him, we have Milos, we have Pat Bev. Who knows 38 games he'll play. Yeah. Before he gets like planter for Saturday. Him. We have Milos. We have Pat Bev. Who knows if any of those three will be healthy, honestly.

Your favorite Clipper, Austin Rivers. No comment on Austin Rivers. The greatest Clipper. Oh my goodness. And then we left somebody out. There's one other good one. Lou Williams.

He's under contract for the All-Star team. Yeah. It's not a bad team. All right. Who are you taking at 13 so at 13 isaac and i debated this one we got into a good argument over the phone yeah isaac wanted lonnie walker uh miami wing and i wanted troy brown a wing from oregon so this is a tiny bit high for troy brown right a little bit high people have them in the like 16 to 18 range we ultimately went with troy brown yeah explain it so what's the comp for him it's my head if if if brown doesn't work out yeah troy brown we have comps for him as chris middleton evan turner deandre bembrie which

isn't the most impressive group however chris middleton is i like him you think about like the good qualities from some of those guys chris middleton, Evan Turner, Troy Brown is a versatile defensive player who can also handle the ball. So he's like Turner in that sense where he can do different things for you, but better shooter, right? But better shooter. I mean, he shot only 29% from three last year,

but 74% from the line. He's in the process of making some tweaks to his mechanics that seem to help. It looks a little weird. Yeah. It's not a great shot. However, he has everything else. He has the playmaking, he has the vision,

he has the body to defend multiple positions. But he also has what I think is really important. He's one of the highest character guys in the draft, one of the quote unquote hardest working guys in the draft. And if I'm going to bet on somebody to reach their potential, whatever it may be be I would bet on a guy like Troy Brown and for the Clippers with that pick I think you're getting a guy who can plug into whatever type of system you're running moving forward with his versatility and then if

his shot does start to click which I think it can because he has solid touch then you get a really really really good player on your hands like a Middleton Turner combo type which I think is pretty damn good yeah we forgot to mention Harrow who i really like oh yeah mantras harrow yeah trezzy's good ultimate energy guy yeah really really good energy guy he's doesn't have the crazy contract that farid does but does everything that farid does basically the crooks actually have too many guys if if they do take miles bridges and he's a rotation guy no we don't have like a 10 minute rotation we have a lot of guards we have a guy. No, we don't have enough wings though. That's like a 10-minute rotation. We have a lot of guards.

We have a lot of bigs. We don't have a lot of wings. You don't have the 6'7". Yeah, we need that 6'7". We have the great Wesley Johnson back for his ninth year. Yes. The great, the great. So you need to improve Wesley Johnson.

So this could be the improvement. Sure. Sure, but Troy Brown is what? He's 6'7". He's 6'6", 6'7". He has a long wingspan. 6'7", 6'10", wingspan. It's not super, super long. Yeah, my thing is he can play great defense for you right he hustles hard

he'll he'll play lockdown defense in the perimeter he he needs to bulk up a little bit but he can potentially defend in the post but his biggest factor is who knows if his shot's going to develop you're confident koc that his shot will develop i mean his shot looks like a catapult we've been down this stage before with justice winslow and stanley johnson a long long list of guys who improve their shot but i think he's at a better starting point at this stage and really it's just betting on like one of the high iq players one of the youngest guys that's going to go in the first round one of the highest character guys in the draft it's betting on really him the person as much it is can i ask a question player sure i love that you guys are pretending that lani's not going

to be the pick here i like lani walker for this i'm the one pretending yeah you're the you're the only one with the pretension like i said it's my head if it doesn't work out i think you can lock down lani walker everything i've read all the concerns all the red flags it just feels so clippers to me it just feels like a perfect clippers pick yeah and with him like he just kind of looks like a player that the clippers need so i i can see that front office on paper lining yeah on paper this guy can score from anywhere on the on the court and he can he drives right and he can score near the rim and all that stuff and the one thing that i brought up when we debated this pick was that you know he had a torn meniscus last year yeah he had multiple knee injuries in high school

as well where it's like you know i'd you know that's just there's something on my mind when i'm making that pick we're not afraid of injuries we we have pat bev on our team we have on our team we had blake griffin and we traded him away and and we we have pat bev on our team we have danila galanari on our team we had blake griffin and we traded him away and and we got avery bradley in return who's also injured we have a lot of injuries on our team we're not afraid of it and that's one of the reasons why i'd like a guy that you can feel confident i'll definitely be on this question why wouldn't you take zaire smith there he was on our board and you know zaire uh i think we wanted somebody where we had a little bit more confidence of what he'll be on the offensive end of the floor.

Zaire Smith, elite athlete, can become a really, really high-level defender. Not a lot of ball handling there. The shooting is a question mark. He's also undersized, and that's kind of a concern. We have a lot of guards who can already defend. I mean, Austin Rivers, as much as I have... Pretty good defender.

Have a high-level distaste for Austin Rivers, but he can defend guards. We need wing defense. That's what we need. Robert Williams as the DJ a year from now replacement

doesn't make sense. We kind of wanted to get away from that DJ mold I think and plus DJ probably back a little bit of a factor. Yeah. If I'm going to have

a big guy who shoots 50% from the free throw line I'd rather have the guy who's proven that he can actually play defense and Robert Williams can be good. He just reminds me exactly of DeAndre Jordan. I don't know the guy who's proven that he can actually play defense. And Robert Williams can be good. He just reminds me exactly of DeAndre Jordan.

I don't know if I want to sign up for a younger DeAndre Jordan again. You're paying DJ $30 million and Robert Williams will be in a rookie contract. I wonder what the most Jerry West pick is. He usually goes for the upside. Trading up. Yeah. That's the thing. We're all pretending they're not going to trade up, but I feel like they're going to trade up.

They're going to try to get a star. I think it would be a wrong choice. Michael Porter, baby. Oh, my goodness. Isaac's worst nightmare. That would be a very clipper's pick, though. If he's on the board at seven for the Bulls, would you trade 12 and 13 for seven?

Anything else on the deal? Just 12 and 13. I'll throw you back Bobby Portis. I like Bobby Portis. I wouldn't do it, but i'm also not as high in porter as the clippers might be i wouldn't do it if i'm the one it seems like the clippers want to come out of this draft with a star with a star balma wants to star and in turn jerry west also wants to star and for me as a as a clippers fan i've seen too many like you know we've drafted

eric gordon back in the day we drafted uh bletzo the year right after that and we're trying to get these like ball handling guys who can who can potentially be be a star or whatever and that's never worked out it's worked out once blake griffin but he was a surefire pick all right let's move to denver hayley was gonna come in hayley o'shaughnessy she's got strep throat. Yeah. It's unfortunate. She was like at the pharmacy getting antibiotics. She's like, I'll come in anyway. We're like, no, no. First of all, nobody wants you breathing all over us.

You have strep throat. Stay out of the office. That is a ringer policy. If you're sick, stay home. We don't take it personally. Yeah. But she did send us a pic. So who'd she take?

She took Shea Gildress Alexander from Kentucky. Nice. We okay with that? Yeah. It's cool. I mean, it doesn't hurt to add another guard on top of everything else they already have, I suppose. I suppose, but Jamal Murray, Gary Harris, Shea Gildress Alexander, that feels like a New Orleans with their three-headed point guard monster

that they had. I actually like the fit for him there because he's not a shooter, but there's a lot of shooting around him. You can get away with the one guy who's not a shooter. But he is a defender. He's a defender. And that adds a nice mix. But what about the part that he's not great at creating for others? I mean, I think he can pass.

Shea Gildas-Alexander can pass the ball. He has passing vision. It's really about he doesn't have that elite first step. He doesn't have that burst. So the shot creation in the half court, I'm not sure he can be your only playmaker on the court. You need others on him, which is why having Jamal Murray alongside him, having a Gary Harris, having a Nikoli Jokic,

the best passing center in basketball, that's what I think is a really, really smart, good fit for him. So I like Haley's pick. Can I tell you what I think? Sure. I wouldn't take a point guard unless it was a sure thing anymore. There's too many point guards. I would use the draft for wings and all players that there just aren't enough of. I can get a point guard every year.

I can get, like if I'm Denver, I can just sign Shane Larkin for $5 million a year. And next year he'll be as productive as this kid will in his first year unless you think unless you're drafting somebody at point that you feel like can be an all-star i would just not take a point guard ever but she is an exception right like trey young's exception there's a chance he could be really good he could be a transcendent shooter potentially so i get that but once we start drifting into this and i'm still like in the teens i just want i want dudes who are unlike other guys in the league i want wings i would just keep i would rather roll the dice with zair smith and hope he's good he is a little different as a wing though at six six with a near seven foot wingspan that that makes him unique as a guard

but if you said he he can't shoot well to your point right and he's not like explosive first step so it's like how am i getting offense well and that's exactly why i'm bumping him down my board on the next update you know i like him a lot as a player because of his defensive ability but you're essentially saying like yes he's different for a guard you know six six with a near seven foot wingspan but why not draft the actual wing that's like six seven beefy muscular with a seven two wingspan i see what i agree with the logic with the hilly pick i'm just saying me personally i just wouldn't take point guards in drafts unless i thought they could make an all-star team i think it's too easy

to just every year grab somebody every year they're around you go get dennis schroeder probably right now yeah from atlanta just make you could probably offer atlanta the 14th pick and something else and just get him instead you know i just think these guys are out there i actually thought about um rogier was just rogier he was buried on a bench forever yeah i actually thought about floating sga as the clippers 13th pick but then i i voted against it because he kind of reminds me of michael carter williams and michael. And Michael Carter Williams is on the cusp of... Is he out of the league? Is he in the league still? He's not good.

He's a forgettable player, basically. It's point guard you need to be able to shoot or get to the rim. Yeah. Is Rozier worth what pick, you think? Like if Boston called Denver on this range, I think. Maybe a little bit lower. Right around maybe where he got drafted. 16th.

But if Boston called Denver and said, we'll give you Rozier for 14, I think Denver does that. Oh, yeah. In a heartbeat, I think maybe, maybe a little bit lower, right around maybe where he got drafted 16th. But if Boston called Denver and said, we'll give you Roger for 14. I think Denver does that. Oh yeah. In a heartbeat. I think so. Really? If with the guys that are on the table right now,

I'd rather have Terry Roger. You wouldn't. Um, I think Denver would take the proven commodity. Would you take the clips? I would take him for 13. Yeah. I would take him.

Yeah. Like, you know, we still have a lani walker on the board you're talking about you know wings right a guy like lani walker a super athlete i i think you may rather have the years of that guy whoever it might may be at 14 over a guy who's gonna be a free agent in a year it's gonna want a big payday two years the next no next summer i mean rosario next summer will be restricted.

He's restricted, though. Yeah. But then you've got to pay him next summer. So maybe you'd rather have the four years of the guy on a rookie contract rather than the guy who's about to be in the, he hopes, 16, 17 million, maybe more like 12. I'm punting once all the all-stars are gone in the draft. It's my draft mentality.

But you don't know, though. You still have a shot. You're really high on this draft. It's my draft mentality. But, you know, but we, you don't know though. Like, you still have a shot. You're really high on this draft. We talked about this yesterday. We have. I don't think this is actually a very deep draft, but you think it is.

I think it drops off after Miles Bridges. It does drop off around like the 12 or 13-ish area. There's a drop off. But then, at that point in the draft, if you,

no matter who you ask in the NBA, everybody agrees like from 15 to 40, it's flat. Some people are going to have their 15th player, another team might have their 40th. Some people are going to have their 30th player, another team might have them 20th. So it's that type of draft where if you are drafting at that spot

and the guy that you have ranked 10th on your board at 14, I think you'd rather have that guy that you perceive as the 10th best player over Terry Rozier. All right, here's the ringer draft. Phoenix, DeAndre Ayton. Sacramento, Luka Doncic. Atlanta, Jaron Jackson. Memphis, Marvin Bagley. Dallas, Mo Bamba. Orlando, Trey Young. Chicago, Michael Porter. Cleveland, Mikael Bridges. New York, Colin Sexton. Philadelphia, Wendell Carter. Charlotte, Kevin Knox, Clippers, Mal Bridges, Troy Brown, and then Denver. What's the guy's name?

I'm not. She goes with Alexander. Yeah, I'm six months away from being able to say it correctly. Call him the hyphen guy. Just say SGA. SGA. SGA. Perfect.

That's it. So what else do we have going this week? We're going to be live on Thursday, right? On Wednesday as well. I think we're going to be live on Thursday right on Wednesday as well I think we're doing some type of podcast we're doing a Tuesday draft preview podcast

that will be up on Wednesday morning on the Ringer NBA show on the Ringer NBA show and then during the draft we're going to be in our little chapel studio filming videos

taping podcasts all that stuff it's going to be a good ass time yeah thank you Kevin O'Connor thank you Isaac thank you thanks to all the Ringer people that joined us for this podcast.

I hope you guys enjoyed it. Don't forget about Courtside on HBO, Tuesday night, 9 o'clock. Thanks to ZipRecruiter. Check them out at ZipRecruiter.com slash BS. Back on Wednesday with another BS podcast. Until then. I don't have I don't have I don't have

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