The Bill Simmons Podcast - The San Francisco Treat, Green Bay’s Resurrection, and College Football Madness With Cousin Sal and Van Lathan

Episode Date: December 4, 2023

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Cousin Sal to discuss the Packers' win over the Chiefs, and Green Bay's path to the playoffs, plus Kansas City falling down the AFC standings, the 49ers' statement win in Philly, the Pats' new (old) offense and more (02:00). Next, Bill and Sal guess the lines for NFL Week 14 (45:00), and close it out with Parent Corner (1:10:00). Finally, Bill is joined by Van Lathan to break down the confusing College Football Playoff rankings that left out undefeated Florida State (1:19:00). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Cousin Sal and Van Lathan Producer: Jonathan Kermah Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming up, it's an all football podcast. NFL? College football. Yeah, we're going to talk about that too next. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest rated sports book is the best place to bet it all. We've been doing pretty well on million dollar picks this year.

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We did a movie that was trending as a top five movie on Netflix in the last four weeks. That's my hint for you. We also, we're going to be announcing a week from tomorrow we're going to be announcing the dates the cities and the movies for the Rewatchables East Coast Tour

which is going to be Washington, Chicago, Philly, and New York stay tuned for all the details one week from tonight I am going to be doing a live show with Priscilla in Las Vegas on Wednesday night at the in-season tournament the day before.

We're going to be doing that at Jimmy Kimmel's Comedy Club. And it is sold out. So you can't go. Sorry. Only had so many seats. But it's going to be me and Russillo and a special guest. We're also going to have KOC and Verno and Logan and Raja are going to be in front of us.

So it's going to be two plus hours of basketball talk. Looking forward to that. Looking forward to seeing everybody in Vegas. Coming up on this podcast, Cousin Sal and I are going to be talking about Week 13 NFL, which was as goofy as ever. And then a rare second guest on a Sunday show, but so much happened

in college football that we brought Van Lathan on to talk about what happened with the football championship and the four teams and the teams that got left out and what's going on

with Deion Sanders and who his favorite quarterback is as I have a vested interest in that question now that the Pats seem like they have a top two pick locked up. We're going to talk about that

with Sal in a second. First, our friends from Pearl Jet. All right, taping this a little after 8.30 Sunday night. Cousin Sal is here to just watch the Packers beat the Chiefs. The Packers look like they're a playoff team. I don't know what the Chiefs look like, but I'll tell you this, Sal. The Chiefs are a four seed right now. Yeah, I noticed that. I noticed that.

So what does that mean? You don't get a bye for a four seed, does that mean you don't get a buy for a four seed right you don't get you definitely don't get a buy right till the end of January no the big winner today

was Baltimore and Miami who now feel like they have a legitimate chance of the one seed I guess the good news if you're the Chiefs is it is just a quagmire

for the 5, 6, 7 spots in the AFC I don't know if I like a single team that's available, but we'll talk about that in a second. What was your take on Chiefs-Packers? Did you feel like the Packers looked like a playoff team?

Because I had the Chiefs in a couple money parlays. I was afraid of the Packers appropriately, but just felt like Chiefs, Sunday night, Lambeau, NBC, Shilkapati made the case of my pot on Thursday. It's like, this is what they do. This is around the time they get going. And they never really got going. The Packers look great.

Chiefs had some injuries on defense, which I think hurt them. But I thought the Packers, you know, they deserve to win the game. Even bogus PI at the end of the game aside, I thought the Packers played better. Yeah. I have the same take. We can move on to a game, I thought the Packers played better. Yeah. I have the same take. We can move on to a game where I didn't lose money. Okay, good.

I hate getting you somber after your bets get destroyed. All right, I'm going to come back. I mean, I had a lot riding on that same game, Paulie. But no, great for the Packers. Jordan Love officially, if he hadn't before, moved out of the bad quarterback category. He's now put together like four good games and not only that he resembles Aaron Rodgers it's got to drive Aaron Rodgers

nuts that game was a nephew to Aaron Rodgers and Taylor Swift but especially Aaron Rodgers because do you watch him you like you don't want to compare him to Aaron Rodgers but if you watch the guy play for three years or whatever it was you pick up his mannerisms and everything he kind of does resembles rogers like you know uh just retreating and throwing off his back foot and everything i'm like oh my god that works and somehow these receivers are getting separation which they didn't you talked about christian watson uh who unfortunately went down at the end like doing a smart thing i hate to see that like a selfless thing, trying to stay in bounds. I don't know what he did with his leg there. You dropped him, what, a month ago

from all your fantasy teams? Way sooner than that. I think it was three weeks ago I dropped him on every team. It's a stud now. Then he looked like a stud again. I forgot that he did this last year. He did get hurt at the end. They have guys that I hadn't heard of. Dontavian Wicks and Tucker Craft, Malik Heath, getting separation.

So this is a different team than we saw six weeks ago, for sure. Yeah, and Luke Musgrave's still on IR, too. If they had him, you just feel like... It feels like they could move the ball. There was a lot of times today where it was second and 10, third and 12, second and 15. And it felt like they could get 10 yards basically whenever they wanted. I was impressed. You look at the NFC big picture, like who do you like after Philly, Detroit, San Francisco, somebody's getting in from the NFC and

your team's getting in. So there's five teams. Then after that, it's Green Bay six and six, Minnesota six and six, Seattle six and six, Rams 6-6. It feels like they're peaking probably better than those other teams. The Rams had a nice win today, but it feels like they're held together by scotch tape. This started with the Lions a week ago when they beat them on Thanksgiving. I felt like they kept the momentum. I didn't think they were going to be able to do it. Yeah, I agree. And I'm a little hesitant because a few weeks ago, I was like,

wow, look at this Vikings team. They could really make some noise in the playoffs. And now I'm not sure. I believe after that Monday night game and just looking lethargic the last couple of weeks, I'm not sure that's the case. But yeah, I don't know. Dobbs crashed back to earth a little bit too. Right.

Yep. Go yeah, I don't know. Dobbs crashed back to earth a little bit too. Right. Yep. Yeah. Go ahead, sir. Well, the other thing the Packers have going for them is just the schedule the rest of the way. This was their quote unquote gauntlet, Detroit and KC. Now they have the Giants. They have Tampa at home, Carolina, Minnesota on the road, and then Chicago at home.

I mean, they literally could run the slate. They could end up being 11-6. This was a big argument with us before the season, and we might have both been right because you like the Vikings, I like the Packers, neither of us like the Lions that much, but now both of them. We might have three NFC North playoff teams. Well, as long as we don't have, we'll talk about it, three AFC South playoff teams, which

is looking like it might happen. But yeah, the Vikings, yeah, they play again like New Year's Eve, but the Vikings won that first one. Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing this Packers team in the playoffs at this point. They're not bad. I just, I don't know. I don't know if the lasting power against 49ers seemed to run away with it.

I know we're going to talk about it, but I don't see any other team in the NFC right now. Well, let's do it. Did Taylor Swift ruin the Chiefs? Let's go. Are you kidding me? Nathan's never going to talk to you again. That's a theme tomorrow.

What show's going to do it? If you had to bet, Undisputed? One of the Fox or ESPN shows is doing it. Somebody on first take will do it. Taylor Swift ruined them. Would Kelsey have caught that

a year ago before he started dating her? Is he flying around too much? It's sitting there for somebody. It's a good take. I love it. I love it. Yeah, I don't know.

I just... This Chiefs team, they lose games like this for us every year, right? I feel like we're waiting on them to close out a teaser and it doesn't happen. But Mahomes, like back to them, their receivers are junk. They do dumb things.

They take dumb penalties. Kadarius Toney, I'm not sure, even knows how to play the game, really. And I just feel bad for Mahomes. Even the interception, he stopped running the route. He just did, you know? So it was a great play, but Mahomes. Even the interception, he stopped running the route. He just did. So it was a great play, but Mahomes has got to be fed up. I had a moment, you'll love this,

because we've been here many times, where I did well today gambling in real life and then had the Chiefs tied to a couple of things and it was the difference between, all right, I could just take the Packers plus six, try the middle, but even if they all cancel out, I have a good day. And I'm just staring at it and I'm staring at them like, what am I doing? Because they look good against the Lions who almost lost to the Saints a week ago. I'm going to go against Mahomes on a Sunday night. And then Collinsworth is going to be doing a Santa Claus

ho, ho, ho laughing every time Mahomes does something great. And I'm just like, I'm not doing it. I'm just riding the Chiefs. They'll win every time Holmes does something great. And I'm just like, I'm not doing it. I'm just riding the Chiefs. They'll win. They'll figure it out. And when you actually just sit there and watch them, you're reminded over and over again, it's like they just don't have the same weapons this year. What was I thinking?

I'm judging them based on the 22 Chiefs and the 18 Chiefs. And it's like, those guys are gone. It's Valdez Scantling just getting mauled on a PI and the refs respect him so little they don't even throw a flag. I mean, that's a PI 100 times out of 100 when we're watching football all day. And with him, it's like, ah, he sucks. We're not going to give him the flag.

So I don't know. I don't know what they do. Yeah, it was, you know, the Mahomes out of bounds hit was terrible too. So I kind of like, all right, maybe one makes up for the other, but it doesn't really even help because like, got it up. That play happens at the 25.

He's not throwing Hail Marys the rest of the way. But yeah, Pacheco runs hard. Mahomes is going to make two or three dazzling plays. But other than that, that offense is not the same. Travis Kelsey, I'm not sure if Taylor ruined them, but definitely not the same. And I don't know what we're going to do with the Chiefs the rest of the way. And some bad injuries in their back six, basically,

that I think the Packers were able to exploit. Well, it's more fun when the Packers are good, so I think this is fun. Whether they can get, so right now, I guess they could get to the six seed. Yeah, they lose the tiebreaker against Minnesota right now. They have the tiebreaker over the Rams. It's complicated. It's still five games. You want to play, if it's a choice between Philly, San Francisco, Detroit

for the top three seeds, you want the Lions. It's almost like we could see a little Week 18 jockeying and see how that goes. The Niners are the team you don't want. They absolutely annihilated the Eagles. They don't do anything on their first two drives, and then they score on six straight touchdown drives. Purdy, 19 for 27 for 314, four touchdowns.

For his career now, he's 17-4. He's 36 touchdowns and 10 interceptions and is now a legitimate MVP candidate, I think. I think your guy after Thursday night, he's in there. I think Purdy's in there. Hertz is still kind of lingering. And who else? Tyreek, I guess.

I guess Tyreek, although I looked at his numbers two hours ago and it was 20-1. They're just steadfast on this wide receivers never get the support thing. But yeah, listen, I was the only idiot in the country. I talked about it. I'm Ringo Wise guys. I wasn't buying into this 49ers thing.

I was like, this line was five points off from when you and I guessed it Sunday night. It was six points off from the look ahead line in August. I'm like, what's happened since the Eagles have one loss. We keep waiting for them to let down. They didn't do it after the Washington games, which were close. They didn't do it after the Cowboys. They didn't do it after the Chiefs. I'm like, I'm not buying it, but everybody else did. And I'm glad you did. I feel foolish now because the 49ers are just so much, just a solid, they just bully you at the line of scrimmage. And I think they average eight yards of play on offense, which a first down is only 10 yards.

So that's pretty good, eight. 24 first downs, 456 yards, eight yards of play, no turnovers. And I had them. I really liked them this week. It was one of those games where it's like, there's such a preponderance of stats that favor the Niners in this matchup. And even like we had John Ewing look up like how many times a 10 and one or better team was a home underdog was three times. They'd

lost twice. And it was basically the only reason you were going with with Philly is all the old school junk stuff. The nobody believes in us. Sirian is going to put on the chalkboard that they're underdogs. The home team, home crowd, and none of it mattered because they just ran up and down. And all the weaknesses that the Eagles that we've seen all year with the linebackers, their inability to chase down tight ends and running backs in the flats. And it just, it all blew up. But the big thing was, could Purdy play a game like that in hostile territory

when they really needed it? And over and over again, he's said, yes, I can, actually. I'm really good at football. He's good at football. And Deebo Samuel, just nobody wanted to tackle him. Nobody. I don't know what he smelled like or what, but nobody wanted anything to do with that guy.

Once he got in the open field, it was over. And I think the turning point was that Big Dom. What happened with Big Dom and Dre Greenlaw? Big Dom. You couldn't make that up. It seems like out of a lost, deleted entourage episode or something. It was like, oh, Big Dom got involved.

Real quick with the Big Dom thing. I was in the car for 10 minutes. I had to get away for something. I put on the NFL radio, whatever, and it had the homer eagle announcers the the radio announcers are still the best i mean i can't get off my but the radio the homer and you can imagine a homer eagle announcer i mean that is just insane and he's like oh did dre greenlaw just go after big dom oh my money's on big dom i i would not i would not count out big dom it's like big drake greenlaw i don't know anything and i can tell you after seeing the guy drake greenlaw

would kill big dom this guy's 450 pounds it took him 20 minutes to get off the to walk off the field big dom big dom is big that's it that's all he is and then they're probably blaming green law i don't know why you went at big dumb oh they did yeah it was i think probably the dumbest call of the year and we've had some really dumb ones all year on both ends we've seen bad flags we've seen bad non-calls but to throw green law out of that when the when the eagle security guard who shouldn even have been that close to the sideline, instigates the whole thing. We have video. They can go look at this. It's like the guy shoves him first, which is, you know, he's playing a football game.

You're not supposed to be shoved by anybody. Yeah, he shouldn't be in the white. The security guy shouldn't be in the white. That's all. And then Big Dom was standing there for five, six minutes, kind of embarrassed. And now he's going to be joining the Digenerate. It's now the Quadfecta. Big Dom's going to be joining full-time, but it gets to all odds.

Watch your back and your chins, Harry. Big Dom's coming after you. They kicked the guy out. That could have been a huge play. I know. The Niners lose their guy because he got goaded. So then I was thinking like, all right, we'll tell everybody in the sideline during a big game that's got this much

chirping should just tell their random non-coaches like, hey, try to start shit anytime anyone comes close to the sideline. I got a standing ovation walking off the field. Oh my God. I'm sure he's going to be a hero tomorrow. He'll be mentioned all over the place. It's not enough that he's just Dom either. It's Big Dom. He's Big Dom.

What are the jobs for somebody named Big Dom? You're like a bouncer in a bar. You're the number two guy in a pizza place. I was just going to say some idiot is going to fund a restaurant and call it Big Dom. Big Doms. Or have a chicken parmesan hero named after

him at least. You're definitely a wrestler. Big Dom. He was like an ECW in 1996. He feuded with Mikey Awesome. And then I would say porn. Oh, yeah. Right? Big Dom.

I don't know if it's straight porn or if it's like some other version, but it's definitely Big Dom is in the title card. He might even be on the video cassette. I think it's football players are, you know, haggling with this girl and he shoves them out of the way. And then like she falls in love with him. I think that's the backstory to the porn. Yeah, that's what happens. Or like maybe like a nighttime soap opera.

Yeah. Like somebody owes money to Big Dom. Like he's a bookie. Big Dom. I think it's just good to be dumb. It's the best. So for Philly, they have that gauntlet schedule. It starts out with the Monday night KC game.

Then they have that brutal OT game last week. They get the really, really physical, violent Niners game this week. And then waiting for them on 10 days rest. Your team. Yeah. Coming off one of the best wins of the Dak era, right? Top four regular season Dak win? No?

The Seattle one? The Thursday one? Yeah. He looked good. He was good. He looked good. He looked like an MVP candidate. He really did. And looked good. He looked like an MVP candidate. He really did. And I got to tell you, it's clicking. And I talked to my buddy, the parlay kid who was a Cowboys fan. And am I crazy to say that, forget about Dak, Mike McCarthy is like a top seven coach now. I mean, how many years can you be like, oh, this guy's a laughingstock. And then he just really kind of doesn't screw up for many, many years now, and he's running the plays.

I know I'm jinxing myself right now. I absolutely know it. He's going to call something nonsensical on Sunday night. I'm going to be in tears. But, you know, pickings are slim, and he might be right up there. Did you like how they handled the last two minutes? Now I can't remember. What did they do?

Remember they threw, they stopped the clock. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I didn't love that. All right, okay. I didn't love going for the field goal either. All of a sudden, Seattle's at midfield with a chance to win the game. It's like, what's going on? You guys could have just ended it.

Yeah, look, McCarthy's... Yeah, look, you can beat good teams. They're a decent team. They might not even make the playoffs, Seattle. But the knock is all you do is crush bad teams. We've lost so many games that way. Now, that said, you have permission. Nephew Kyle, Saruti, whoever's doing the podcast,

kill my mic next week if I'm excited at all if the Cowboys are to win because it's not going to matter. I know you're going to go through the schedule. Look at the Eagles' last three. That's all that matters. It's the Giants twice in Arizona. Those are two teams that want to lose at that point. Well, you have Philly home next week, at Buffalo, at Miami, home Detroit, at Washington, and you want to go

two and one these next three and hope that the Eagles blow one more of these. But the Eagles haven't looked awesome here for a month. But look at those last three. They're just going to... They'll get it together. I know what you're doing. Kill my mic. Kill my mic.

What night are we the most afraid of during this game? Did you bet on the Eagles? Or did you stay away completely? No, I took the Eagles like plus seven and a half. I took the Cowards way out. So that wasn't good. So who were you the most afraid of? What player or what team? Yeah. What Niner? Oh, well, I mean, that one guy can't even take big Dom in a fight. Drake Greenlaw. So not him. No, Debo Samuel. If he's playing like this, like, right. The guy is just, uh,

he's unstoppable. And, uh, I hate, I don't know. Do we even call him a running back at this point? It feels like he has that element back to him, right.

Where he wasn't a running back at all for the first five weeks in the last couple of weeks last year. I watched football today with, uh, van and my friend, Kevin wilds, who was in town. And we were talking about who is Debo?

We were kind of playing the game of like, who does this guy remind you from the past? Like we were talking like, who does McCaffrey remind you of? And we kind of landed on Thurman Thomas, like how he can run the ball. He's shifty, like in the middle, but you can also throw him and throw little wheel routes with him and stuff. So he's a little Thurman Thomas-y. But Debo, we couldn't think of anybody from the past that reminded us of Debo. He's like a running back at receiver. I don't even know how to describe him.

It's kind of a one-on-one. It's weird. Like Deion Sanders, but he wasn't as good a receiver when they split him up. Oh, that's good. Like if Deion was a better receiver. Yeah. That's good. Right there. I like that one. Yeah. if Deion was a better receiver. Yeah. That's good. Right there.

I like that one. Yeah. Thank you. Call those guys and tell them we figured it out. Well, when Debo plays and Trent Williams plays, this is the best team in the league.

So I think the big lesson is something I was banking on heading into the weekend, but I just think healthy Niners is the class of the league. Can they stay healthy? Can they figure it out? We'll see.

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All right, Sal, I got a great topic for you. Go ahead. Did Gardner Minshew single-handedly save the backup quarterback position? This position that we grew up with where there were just some teams like Don Strzok. Don Strzok coming to a game, he's like, oh, Don Strzok's pretty good. He could start for half the teams in the league. Frank Reich was like that.

Fitzpatrick was borderline like that, I guess, in the previous decade. But for the most part, you know, Haas-Dettler came in that year when Phil Simms got hurt. Eagles. Nick Foles. Nick Foles with Wentz. So we've seen guys come in for one season things. But the whole concept of a backup

QB who, if he gets the car keys, can actually be a winning QB in a league where what, 40% of the quarterbacks are terrible? It seems impossible that we would have a good backup QB. Minshew, that was his 20th career win today. It was a come from behind. He made a couple of awesome throws. He's 7-3 as a starter this year.

And it's kind of like quietly the story of the year. They're 7-5. They have a chance to be the number one wild card in the AFC. And this is a team that they take Richardson fourth. They lose him within two weeks, and their season should be over. They got a new coach. And Shane Steichen, I think, is in the coach that they're running too. I would say he's probably the favorite.

But this Minshew thing is kind of incredible, and nobody cares. Well, yeah, this team was left for dead certainly by me like no ar you know no anthony richardson no jonathan taylor that whole contract day was screwed up with ursa you're like oh my god this team just they don't care about winning a single game and i think you're right there have been quarterbacks in the pet like cooper rush i'll bring up mine was four and one last year you know help the Cowboys get that coveted wildcard spot. But yeah, he looks great. We've seen these quarterbacks.

I think he's top. What would you even say? Forget about saving the backups. I think he's a top 12 quarterback at this point. Yeah, I made the list. I think he's in the top half if you're splitting the halves. He's in that 14 to 16 range. Because over and over again, he can move the ball.

And it's like when the Pats played them in Germany and the Pats, you know, the defense really shut them down. And the Colts barely won anyway. But it felt like, oh, here we go, Minshew. Now the worm's going to start to turn on him. But it definitely didn't. They did get lucky, though. We have to admit. Like it went Two block punts

in a row? How does that happen? On both of them, it looked like the Titans punter, his leg was going to be broken Alex Smith style. I asked people to name what a back-to-back block punt would be. People said double blunt,

double stuffed, like the Orioles. Twunt sounds dirtier than it is. Block-to-back block punt would be. People said double blunt, double stuffed, like the Orioles. Twant sounds dirtier than it is. Block-to-block. Twant? Twant. T-W-N-T. I don't know. Starring Big Dom?

There's another one. Big Dom could be a Music City muff fest or the re-blockables. The re-blockables. You're not going to see that a lot. I like the re-blockables. The re-blockables. You're not going to see that a lot. I like the re-blockables. A couple other backup QBs. Matt Moore was kind of frisky there for a while, remember? Yeah.

He had a couple moments where you're like, ah, should I bet on this guy? I kind of like Matt Moore. And then Castle, the year Brady went down, and the Pats went 11-5 with Castle, and he ends up getting a $40 million contract out of it. Indy's schedule the rest of the way is nuts. They have Cincinnati at Cincinnati next week with Jake Browning.

They're home for Pittsburgh, probably Trubisky. Atlanta in Atlanta, a team that couldn't even get to 200 total yards today against the Jets. Las Vegas, Aiden O'Connell. And then last week of the season, Houston. Potentially for a playoff spot. And that's at Houston. Yeah, I don't know why.

I just don't want to see them. I know if the alternative is Pittsburgh, okay, fine. But the shaky bowl, Colts at Jags, you're excited about that at all? That's like a 2-7? I'm not. Unless there's Jimmer, say, wandering onto the field like Shooter and Hoosiers.

Oh, yeah. Hey, what's going on here? We have Cleveland at 7-5, Pittsburgh at 7-5, Indy at 7-5, Houston at 7-5, Denver at 6-6, Buffalo at 6 six and six Cleveland's getting their quarterback next Cleveland has a weird quarterback controversy because Flacco was pretty good today and they got uh they got the rookie coming back next week and I don't know what they're gonna do because Flacco he had one terrible pass and it was when it all fell apart he threw it deep missed the guy by 10 yards but

for the most part we were marveling on the. This guy was like in his backyard three weeks ago and he was zipping. He had the play action thing down. He was zipping 15 yarders. I thought he looked good. Didn't you? I absolutely did. I think they can make the playoffs with him. They need three games, right? They have seven wins. They're home against the bears. They're home against the jets. So I'm thinking he might have said no to the Jets. Don't you think the Jets reached out to him? He probably said no. So if he's home against the Bears and the Jets and then that last game

at the Bengals, you know, there's a couple other games in there too, but I don't mind him. Look, he's not like one of these check down backups that comes in off the street. He'll throw the ball downfield. Yeah, he throws downfield. He and Elijah Moore, it's like, oh my God. Yeah, I guess they did hook up passing-wise in a separate life,

but a past life. But he looked good. It was a borderline throwback performance. One of the legacies of today is there's these three AFC wildcard spots. I have no idea who wants them. But Buffalo didn't play and was the big winner today. Because you go through, like Cleveland they lose. The Steelers

home game from hell. Pickett gets hurt. This Steelers game, this is one of those, if they play it 20 times, I think they might win like 18 of the times where first drive of the game, they're about to score.

They fuck up a third and short. All of a sudden, they're kicking a field goal. It's like, oh, why didn't they get a touchdown on that? Then it's 3-3. They come back down. Goal line stand by the awful, awful Cardinals defense that everybody's been running on all year. They stop them 3-3.

Cardinals come back down. There's like stoppages with weather. There's two long stoppages. And then somewhere in the middle of that, Pickett goes down. And this is the second time this year this happened to me, Sal. I had the Pittsburgh. I had a little same game parlay with them, with the Steelers running backs to get 50 plus yards each and Fryermuth to get 25 yards. And Trubisky comes in and you're just like, I'm done. I have no chance. There's no way. There's no way back. Trubisky trying to come from behind.

I have no chance. He undid everything Gardner Minshew did for the backup quarterbacks. He did. He's like, hold my beer, Gardner. So bad. Hold my Iron City beer.

But I was rooting for Arizona because of the Pats. Like, Arizona, get them out. Now the Pats are locked into top two. Yeah. Well, I Iron City Bears. But I was rooting for Arizona because of the Pats. Arizona, get them out. Now the Pats are locked into top two. Yeah. Well, I was talking about it with the guys I was watching with. It's not going to be like previous years where we're going to have a one-win team or

a two-win team. Even the bad ones, like the Bears are going to have four wins and Washington and the Giants. And then I'm like, oh, no, the Patriots. The Patriots and Panthers are going to take care of all that. But back to the Steelers for a second. I'm like, goddammit, this team is so full of shit. They're going to get lucky.

It's going to be a rare rained out football game, and it's unofficial, even though it's like 21-10, and there's no way. What were the rules on that? Could they have just stopped the game and voided it? Or just frozen it? I think they could, but it would be a meteorological, however you say that, disaster because they

should have at least moved the game if the storm was going to be that bad, right? If they knew there's a storm system coming in. But I have another policy, a policy rule here. If the Arizona Cardinals of 2023 drive 99 yards on you, you're

automatically eliminated from the playoffs. That's it. That has nothing to do with standings or anything. Sorry. Gotta get you out. One of my big preseason bets was Cardinals under four and a half wins. Yeah. Which I was feeling like I was pretty locked in on that until today.

No, I don't feel as good. It's an awful Steelers loss. Them being seven and five, which is probably the right record for them. You could even say they maybe should be 6-6. It didn't stop me from throwing them in on Moneyline Parlay today. It was one of my losses. We'll have your team now Thursday, so we'll get to that. Yeah, I want to talk about that in a second.

The Broncos finally lose. This was one I did hit with Houston. The turnover regression from the Broncos, the historic plus 15 over four weeks. And it's like, okay, this guy, all right, stop it guys. And then finally it just flipped on them. And yet they still had a great chance to win. They came down and Wilson's gotten to the point. He's not, you know, first half of the 2010s Russ, but he does make you nervous if you're betting against mid of the game. He scrambled for a couple of first

downs, near first downs. I thought, considering they're running out of time, he throws the interception at the end, but it was the right play. He was trying to do a jump ball and he underthrew it. Good play by the defender. It was a fun game. I jinxed Rush. I'll take all the responsibility.

I told everyone, I'm like, hey, he has take Russ. I'll take all the responsibility. I told everyone. I'm like, hey, he has no turnovers in the red zone this year. That's why they're going to keep it close. I said it on podcast. I said it on Ringer Wiseguys. I told the guy in the produce section at Ralph's, anyone who would listen. But he also had two other interceptions because he threw downfield, which he wasn't doing in the last three or four games.

So he took some chances. He played outside of himself, which was working. So that's how he ended up with three interceptions, I think. Sertan went out during the game, and it felt like that was it for Denver, and Houston was just going to roll. And they had a double-digit lead at one point, and then all of a sudden,

Denver's kind of hanging around, hanging around. I thought it was a great win for Houston. Good pass rush too, right? Yeah. That was big. They really did a nice job. I was impressed by their D. But then we find out after the game, Tank Dell is probably out for the year.

Yeah. Looks like he has like a hairline fracture, the fibula. And that guy was huge for them. So, you know, going back to the log gym at this wildcard spot, kind of bad days for the Steelers, Broncos, and Texans, even though the Texans got a win

and the Browns go backwards. And Buffalo, who we wrote off two weeks ago, I think is in a pretty nice spot now. Well, they stopped the win four games, don't you think? The Bills?

Could it be nine, could nine and eight be that seven seed now? I think today what changed is we said last year, he was gonna be 10 wins. Now I think it could be nine and then it'll come down to the AFC, your conference record, which is bad for Denver. Cause I think there's three and five,

but I think Buffalo is, is lingering and they have a big game that we're going to do. And I guess the lines then in the, uh, in the NFC, Tampa is Tampa, I guess entered the chat because now we have Tampa and new Orleans and five and seven and Atlanta at six and six with six with an impotent offense.

And it just feels like eight, nine is going to take that division with somebody. And I don't know who the team's going to be. And I don't know if I care. And I don't think we should be allowed to bet on it. Why did we bet the Saints? We're already in. We're already in, me, you, and House. I know.

We looked at their schedule. This was great. They're so bad. There are already only a few instances where Derek Carr should be taking snaps. It was Taysom Hill. He was getting booed the whole first half. It's like he can't handle a snap now. He's fumbling.

So, yeah, that's a bad pick. Yeah, the Tampa, that line went down to like three and a half, which is bad news if you're playing the Panthers, and they didn't even cover that. It got down to three in some spots. Saints were down 21-0, almost came back. They played all three quarterbacks. Taysom Hill continues to be the best guy they have out there.

For some reason, they won't play him all the time. And then the Falcons mentioned them under 200 yards, 3.5 yards a carry. They gave up one of the worst safeties I've seen in five years on like a second and second from their own two. This slow developing run play to the left. The guy got tackled five yards behind the end zone. I think they're my most infuriating team, the Falcons, this year.

They passed the Steelers because at least I could sort of figure out once in a while how to make money off the Steelers. But the Falcons are just – and that game, it seemed like – I know this sounds insane, but Zach Wilson probably would have won that game he needed like three first downs over the course of two hours I think he would have won Tim Boyle I think is the worst of all the quarterbacks we've seen this year and that's saying

something and I really at least Zach Wilson had that ability every once in a while just scramble and scramble for nine yards I don't know Tim Boyle couldn't even do that the Jets are four and eight but there's some good news. It looks like Aaron Rodgers is going to be ready for round one. What?

Yeah, he's going to be ready. They're going to be five and twelve, but he's going to be ready for round one. It's nice to give yourself an out like that. He's like, yeah, I'll come back. I think I should be ready. It all depends on if the Jets are playoff-wise.

Like, yeah, they're going to have eight losses. They were eliminated two weeks ago. Good luck on the comeback, though. Simmons, I'll do your lawn for a year, but only if the Jets make the playoffs. I'll cut your lawn. All right? I'm telling you that right now.

It is amazing. And people are still writing about it and talking about it like it's a news story. They're like, I was on Twitter the other day, and it was still writing about it and talking about it. Like it's a new story. They're like, they, I was on Twitter the other day and it was like this big graphic active Aaron Rogers being activated. I was like,

what? There's no way he's going to play. Why would you do that? Um, so the Falcons barely win. And then the only thing with that lion saints game, we didn't talk about the lions have now given up basically 30 points a game for the last four weeks. And, uh, i just think they're dying to be beaten in in the

in the playoffs that's gonna be a live dog whoever goes to detroit in the three six the two seven whatever it is i think i think that is a very beatable team yeah um i don't i don't know who they'd want to play even it's not not the Packers. Nobody that can throw the ball. If it's anybody who can fling the ball around, that's who they don't want to see. Dolphins, Washington. Robo, Ron, I think just does not get fired now because they probably want a good pick. Tyreek or Tua, where do you stand these days? Are you a Tyreek guy or a Tua guy? Well, I don't think Tua is ever going to convince people he's better than good or very good as long as Tyreek is there.

I mean, it's ridiculous how fast Tyreek is and how much separation he gets. They used to say, like Bruce Lee, they'd put weights in his hands to slow him down, like in the movies. I feel like you don't have to do that with Tyreek Hill and his ankles because it's an unfair fight otherwise. I had this same game parlay I did today

where it was Tyreek to have over 150 yards, Tyreek to have a TD, the Dolphins to score over 29 and a half, and Tua to get like 286 yards passing. Tyreek to have a TD, the Dolphins to score over 29 and a half, and Tua to get like 286 yards passing. And I was like, well, if Tyreek gets 150, Tua will definitely get,

and Tua ends up with 280 and that's about lost. It was like 10 to one. I was so excited about it. They got such a big lead, Tua didn't have to throw the ball anymore and then that was it.

And I was like, man, this is why those same gamers are so tough. What have they given up? 90 in the last two weeks? Washington? No. Yeah, it's the worst. 90 to 25. How does he not get fired? They said they're going to keep

him around, but these guys always lie. Well, they did the thing where they got rid of the defensive coordinator. Such a great move. Yeah, it's smart. It's smart. Well, that did the thing where they got rid of the defensive coordinator. Yeah, Del Rio's gone. Yeah, it's smart. It's smart. Well, that made a difference. So the big thing for me today was Pats Chargers. I could see.

With Arizona-Pittsburgh, and then Arizona starts beating Pittsburgh. I have money on Pittsburgh. I don't care. I'm like, I'm fine. I'll lose the bet. Arizona, please win this. And then Panthers-Bucks. The Pats, their defense has been absolutely awesome the last few weeks.

They've given up 26 points in the last three weeks. They're the first team since Chicago in 1938 to lose three games in a row where they gave up 10 points or less in each of the games. It's never happened in the last 70 years. Yep. And the Chargers, they ran for 29 yards and 24 carries. Herbert looked awful. We were like, is he hurt?

What's going on? It just didn't even look like he was throwing it correctly. And the Pats scored zero points. They replaced Mac Jones with Bailey Zappi, who I don't want to say he was worse because he didn't throw a pick six but it's like I wrote down he's Splenda Mac Jones

it's not as many calories but it still sucks but you're not it's like ah it's Splenda he's like the healthier Mac Jones but he's still just as bad is he healthier? I think he's taken years off your life Mac Jones is less he's still just as bad. Is he healthier? I think he's taken years off your life. Mac Jones is

less healthy, I think, to watch. I see. Okay. Yeah. Billy Zapp is just bad. It's just incomplete. Incomplete. He scrambled into a sack. But nothing truly bad happens. Right. But the Chargers were dying to give that game away, just like they were dying to give the Ravens away last

week, just like every other game. I mean, you know how hard it is to cover five and a half when you score only two field goals. No, the other team has to score zero. Do you think that's ever happened in the history of football? I don't know if it did. Somebody covering two field goals and they cover by a half point. Come on, Ewing, step up.

Yeah, John Ewing will find out. They're fist pumping on the sidelines. It's like you guys were awful. You couldn't even get to nine points. I will say Khalil Mack.

This is like the third game in a row where it felt like he was everywhere just demolishing people. But I'm officially Van and I talk about it later in the pod because

he he had a lot of college football quarterback thoughts. I'm officially in the Caleb Williams Drake Maison. I'm going to have to now watch all of college football quarterback thoughts. I'm officially in the Caleb Williams, Drake Maison. I'm going to have to now watch all of these games. Yeah, because the Pats are a top two worst team now. I know.

I was getting annoyed at you because you're talking about the Clippers Saturday afternoon. I'm like, well, you watched that freaking Alabama-Georgia game. I watched it. I watched the whole game. 50%, 70% chance that your draft pick is in this game. You did watch it. I watched it

alright alright um yeah this is so the draft is when last week of April so I have like

five and a half months to I haven't Van and I were talking but I haven't had a high pick like this in football like since I was in college

so yeah I haven't gone through the process like you would in basketball where it's like oh alright top three pick I gotta study do the YouTube so I would in basketball where it's like, oh, all right, top three pick. I got to study to do the YouTube. So I got to get into it.

Who do you have right now? You have Caleb or you have Drake? I think you can't pass on Caleb Williams. I just think he does too many good things and too similar to Mahomes. And there's some bad side too, but that's got to be your guy. But well, Splendid Mac Jones, the care of business for us but unfortunately the Panthers they take the lead against the against the Bucs

and it's like this is it the Bucs are banged up Panthers have momentum and then fucking Mike Evans who during this game

got his 10th straight 1,000 yard season that was another thing we were talking about as we were watching the games like Mike Evans like is he is this the best career Had his 10th straight 1,000-yard season. That was another thing we were talking about as we were watching the games. Mike Evans, is this the best career nobody's ever had a conversation in more than 10 seconds about?

He's won a Super Bowl, 10th straight 1,000-yard season. He goes for $38 in the fantasy draft every year, and nobody's ever talked about him once. Yeah, I think he – I mean, it's such a logjam for wide receivers that haven't gotten in the Hall of Fame. I feel like he's separating himself. Even like this year.

Like this year, it was supposed to be a lost year. You know, you figure Brady's gone. You got Baker, maybe wasn't even going to play today. And yeah, he's going to keep that streak intact and everything else. And they did just enough to beat Carolina. He beat Carolina by himself. And Carolina, the enough to be Carolina. He, he be Carolina by himself in Carolina. The difference in the pats in Carolina,

I don't think the pats are necessarily trying to lose, but obviously they're not going to be too upset with the losses, but Carolina has nothing to play for. They kept showing the owner and the luxury box during the game Tepper. Yeah. And they're showing them and he's like really into it. Like he wants more wins. He does not want to go one in 16.

So this was, they get to play the Bucks one more time, but this was their best chance for a win. And honestly, Bryce just wasn't good. The play calling, they had a third and one and a fourth and one when they're running the ball up the middle all game against Tampa and they're down three and they're driving or trying to drive and they just

do these stupid shotgun Bryce Young scrambling around plays and they blow it. I mean, he has like four or five games without a touchdown pass now. And it's not like he, like you said, he's not running for 80 yards either. So it's not ideal. He looks terrible. And I'm not going to write them off because his weapons are bad. Well, he looks terrible. You know, they can't really block. He doesn't have any weapons. He's not a bad team. They just got rid of his offensive coordinator and his head coach last week. So

every single checkpoint is like, this is bad. And we saw this happen with Trevor Lawrence a couple years ago where he looked terrible during the Urban Meyer year. But I just haven't even seen flashes from him in the games I've watched. I'm not even in the...

Not even flashes. Bad, I mean, I think Thielen's like a top six receiver right now if you look at like stats. So I don't know. I don't want to write him off either. But you're feeling good if you're the Texans, that's for sure.

So, well, you're feeling really good if you're the Bears. Right. So you made that Bryce Young trade. Now you can do whatever with your pick. Try to win. Try to get some momentum. You might even have an outside chance to get the seventh seed

if it's 8-9 or 9-8. It's seventh seed. And Carolina will take you home with one of the top two picks. And now you can use this whole time as a Justin Fields scouting mission. All right, we're going to take a break and then we'll do Guest Alliance. Alright, before we do Guest Alliance, were you happy with the college championship stuff? Van and I talked about it later, so give me your take. Yeah.

Well, how do you know what you and Van talked about if it hasn't happened yet? This is a blow in my mind. No, I'm happy because I have a lot of money on i i bet an sec team to win the whole thing before the year started that was my big bet and i'm like holy shit there's not even going to be an sec team represented fama or georgia are going to be out uh as of last night you could have gotten five to one odds through fan duel i don't know how much you could have put on it. I don't know what they put the limit on. That Florida State was not going to get in. They were a lock to get in.

And I said, holy crap, this is really weird. And then it just like everything tightened up by noon Eastern time today. I'm happy. I'm not one of those guys. Look, it sucks that they were undefeated and they didn't get in. But this is an invitational. And they were going to be a 13-point underdog to Michigan, and they're a 13-point underdog, Florida State is, in their bowl game against Georgia. So it is what it is. I'm happy with Alabama and Texas getting in.

And what's the line in the Michigan game that we're actually having? It's one and a half. Michigan's a one and a half point favorite. It's hard to say they did the wrong thing if it's a 12-point discrepancy with the two different games. Guess the line's week 14. I can't believe this, but I thought this was going to be the easiest possible Pats win, this Chargers game today. It's like, oh, the Chargers, they fucking suck.

They're going to come in. We're going to beat them 9-6. Now we're playing at Pittsburgh on Thursday, and it's Mitch Trubisky. And it's a Pats defense that, as we covered in the last segment, has been really good.

I just don't see the Steelers scoring more than 17 points against this defense. So, could their defense take Splendid Mac Jones and hold us to three? Could this be a Malik Cunningham spot? How bad is Malik Cunningham that he still can't get reps? You go from Mac Jones with five pick sixes this year

or four, whatever he has, to Zappi who just puts up a goose egg and still they won't go to Malik Cunningham. This game is in Pittsburgh. It's a Thursday night. I have no idea who's playing for either team. TJ Watt was hurt at one point in that game and they were working on him.

Who knows if he's going to play. I have the Steelers in the Vegas zone by four and a half. I said five and it's six. So I get that one. Yeah, a couple things. First of all, the over-under opened at 31.5. That's the lowest of the year.

And so everything you just said is right. They don't know where the hell the points are going to come from. So this could be like a 13-10 type game. The second thing is, you talk about low points for the Patriots, and I'm sure you have your list, but it had to be last Thursday on Amazon when they previewed this game and they put the graphic up up and they didn't even have a player. It was TJ Watt

for the Steelers and Bill Belichick. They couldn't even find a player. This has to be bold and board material. Bill Belichick should show everybody this graphic on the team and be like, you guys suck so bad that I'm the draw for this game. They couldn't even come up

with any of you. Obviously, in my Pat circles, we noticed this. I go the other way. They're showing Belichick because he did such a bad job of drafting all the guys. They just had to show him. It's like this is his fault. We don't have a player to put here. And now Stevenson

got hurt today. He's not playing in this game either. So you're talking about Zeke Elliott, who you had on your team forever. Devontae Parker, who I've never seen a player consistently less open at any level of football that I've ever watched, including high school football and flag football. He is draped by whoever's covering him on every single play. And then Gusecki, who's the shorthanded tight end who just drops passes every

week. Jujus Smith-Schuster, who's playing on one leg. This is from a skill position standpoint, this is rock bottom. You can't do worse than the Pat Skills guys. It probably is his fault. I was thinking about today, like the Jets and the Patriots have good defense. They seem to show up every week.

How pissed must those guys be? You parade these losers in that take snaps all over. And then you got the Bills and Dolphins who have dynamite offenses. It's a very strange division. I don't remember anything like this. I don't know how either team gets to 14 points in this game. Because the one thing the Pats have been doing consistently is shutting down run games completely.

And the Steelers, that's kind of all they're going to be able to do in this game. So I don't, yeah, I don't know. I mean, you got TJ Watt on the graphic and a defensive specialist in Belichick. So yeah,

there's probably going to be no points. Well, another thing that happened to the Pats, they flexed them out of the Monday night game, which was another kind of gut punch. Another love. I don't know how many. And then,

uh, this morning I was tweeting, I tweeted something about how they showed the stands. It was, I don't know, 18,000 people there. It's pouring rain. They're playing in the red uniforms. We have whatever terrible quarterback. This week it was Zappy that we're starting.

We're going for the number one pick. And it was like, I'm fucking in college again. This might as well be 1991. Come back, baby. Give me some Marlboro Lights. College was fun. Wait a minute. What game did they flex you out of?

Was it the Chiefs? We were playing the Chiefs game. Yeah, they flexed us out of there. That's the low point. Forget what I said about the graphic. Nobody's ever been flexed out. I mean, it's like the second year they've had the rule, but yeah, we got flexed out.

Forget about that. They're potentially foregoing a Taylor Swift cutaway or 10 to get you out of there. That's amazing. She doesn't even want to go. No. She's out. She's like, Travis, I'm going to skip that one. Sunday's marquee game has to be the 13-second rematch, right?

Chiefs-Bills? Yes, I would say that. It's in Kansas City. We get lots of clips of the 13-second thing. There's going to be some awesome segment on one of the NFL shows. Was this the moment the Bills, this was when the wheels kind of came off, this thing, these 13 seconds?

Right. From what I saw from the Chiefs today and what we've seen from the Bills offense, I don't know how the Chiefs can be favored by more than three. And I know the Bills are six and six, but I'm going to say Chiefs by three. That's exactly what I had. And that's what it is right now. Yeah. I figured, because that's what the Eagles were, right? Were they two and a half, three? And so now everyone's going to be very cautious with the Bills as they have, all these are must wins the rest of the way. That's be very cautious with the Bills as they have all these are must-wins the rest of the way.

That's a great spot for the Bills. You banged up Chiefs defense. Can they just outscore them? Can they make it like a 34-31, 38-34 type game? Just let's have a back and forth because they have more weapons. Yeah. Chiefs will probably try to run on them and slow it down. Right.

Against Philly. Yeah. They'll have it. Chiefs eight and four. What was their, what were they? 12 and a half before the season for an over under? I think they were. I think that's right.

Yeah. So if I told you before the year, the Chiefs are eight and four. Chiefs can be eight and four after weeks, and the division is wrapped. We're going to be like, oh my God, did Herbert blow out his ACL? What happened? No, no, the charges are just awful. They're minus 3,000 for the division. That's a great call.

They're 8-4. All right, the watchables. And now they're, by the way, they're second for the Super Bowl. They're plus 470. I don't see The Niners are... I don't see the Niners relinquishing that top spot until they lose. Plus 350.

Agree. They'd have to have some... Yeah. Well, what's for the conference? The Chiefs are plus 210. Ravens plus 280. I'll tell you. I think I would bet on the Dolphins

out of all the teams at plus 360. Because I think they have a chance to get a one seed. I think they're really hard to play at home. They're fast. And the whole thing with them is like, can Tua stay healthy? Can Tua stay healthy?

Well, now we're in December. He's healthy. And they figured out a way to protect him. He doesn't take big hits. Game after game after game, they can run the ball. And they get two a way to protect him. He doesn't take big hits game after game after game. They can run the ball and they get two 50-yard plays a game from somebody. So if I look at the AFC, I think that's the best team. Yeah. They get the one seed. They'd have to score 30 points two weeks in a row, right? They're not

going to win a 17-16 game probably. Well, so let's talk this out. If they get the one seed, then they're playing the winner of the four or five right unless that's yep unless there's a major upset so worst case scenario that's like jacksonville versus the top wild card which is well maybe buffalo we just said chiefs could be a four right the chiefs are the four now, but you think they'll keep climbing? Yeah, so maybe the Chiefs would be the dangerous, but maybe the Chiefs aren't even dangerous this year. Right.

All right. I got four watchables, which is pretty high. I actually thought the early games were good today. I was enjoying on the YouTube multi-view. There was Texans, Broncos. All four of them were good, and there was no stinkers. Detroit ended up being a game. Your team, there was a game.

Even when the Steelers went away, it's like, all right, maybe they could. But then it was nothing. That goofy Colts game ended up being a good one. All right, watchables. Baltimore is home against the Rams of Los Angeles. I went back and forth on this between four and a half and four. I'm going to say Ravens by four and a half. Oh, wow.

Way off. I said six and a half. It's seven and a half. That's too high. Disagree with that line. I don't know what we think about the Rams. I guess they're – I'm not sure. I know what I think.

This Williams is a really good running back, and he's got two receivers that are open the whole game. Stafford. I think they're pretty good. I mean, the Browns have a good defense, and they move the ball on them the whole game. Maybe the Browns don't have as good of a defense. Maybe they peaked in September and October.

But I thought the Rams... Lombardi was big today on the Jim Schwartz defense against McVay because there's been a lot of success. You could feel it early. And then it felt like Stafford solved them. And it was like Puka broke a couple big plays. The Browns just as good of a defense as they have. They just give up these long plays, these run after the catch stuff.

They didn't have Ward today either, which I thought hurt them. Right. Yeah, I don't know. As a running quarterback, it might be a different story here versus Flacco. Yeah, maybe. That they have to deal with. I like the Rams in that spot with a lot of points. Next one is Detroit at Chicago.

I have this as a watchable because I could see the Bears beating the Lions. I think the Lions in general, they seem to be in a lot of exciting games. And I could see the Bears moving the ball on them. And I like the way the Bears front seven is playing. So I have this in the Vegas zone too. I have Lions by four and a half at Chicago. We split this. I said three and a half.

It's four. But yeah, this should be a good, I mean, this was a great game three weeks ago, right? The Bears were up 12 points and blew it. Right. When you thought they were going to lose it, they won 31-26 Detroit. I think it'll be fun.

They know they can play with them. The Lions got super lucky in that game. And I think the Bears are, out of all the under 500 teams, they're probably the one playing the best right now. If you're going four wins and under, they're probably the best. Next one, 49ers home for the Seahawks. And it's not a must win for the Seahawks, but they lose this one. What's their record?

They're 6-7? 6-7 if they lose. This was the stretch where we thought they could end up 6-8. What's their next game? They have another tough one. Somebody else could the next game, yeah. Who do they have? Well, you could steal this from me.

I'll find it in a second, but you could steal this from me because I was four points off. Oh, shit. I had 49ers by eight. Oh, wow. You were four and a half points off. I said eight and a half. It's 12 and a half. Really? They're not letting anybody get anything going on the Niners. I said eight and a half. It's 12 and a half. Really?

They're not letting anybody get anything going on the Niners. Yeah. Oh, Seahawks have the Eagles next. Eagles, right. That's right. Honestly, that line's ridiculous. They're just throwing in an extra three points because people are so scared of the Niners right now. The Seahawks, they can get cheap touchdowns

at the end of the game. They can be down 14 and get garbage time something. It's recency bias because on Thanksgiving night, they lost by 18. They were not in that game at all, Seattle against the 49ers, right? But you saw it against Dallas. Yeah.

Now that their rookie receiver got going, they have three receivers that can get open and all kinds of do different things. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. It's just tough. Cause I,

what they score 16 against the Rams and then 13 against the Niners. It might just be my Cowboys. Last watchables I had, because I think this might be a loser leaves town match is Chargers Broncos in LA and I know this is in the tic-tac zone I just don't know

who is favorite in this and I probably made a mistake but I took the Chargers minus one and a half I said two and a half it's three Chargers by three I like the Broncos yeah still three and a half. I said two and a half. It's three. Chargers by three? Let me see if it moved. I like the Broncos. Yeah, still three.

That's too high. The Chargers suck. You can't ever lay points with them, right? They're bad. I mean, honestly, there was no difference with them in the Pats other than Herbert. They're basically the exact same teams. Even Keenan Allen

is now kind of banged up what do we get we should Fandles should have a percent Broncos jerseys and SoFi I'm trying to think of what kind of they travel well I think Broncos fans oh definitely yeah that's at least at least half

62% we were talking about best running backs we've ever seen today when we're watching the games. And I always say Terrell Davis, those two Denver years is the best running back I've ever seen. And everybody, anytime I mentioned that somebody has, they do like a triple take. And then I have to go to the pro football reference and show how he had 3,800 yards in two straight years. Then the playoffs was like almost 600 yards the first year and like almost 500 the second year. It was like six yards a carry in the playoffs.

Just running through. Nobody's ever had a two-year run like this as a running back where they won the Super Bowl and annihilated everybody. And it's just never mentioned now. And everybody's like, is it Barry? Is it LaDainian? Is it OJ? It's like LaDainian never Is it OJ? It's like,

LaDainian never came close, never came close to one Terrell Davis season, much less the two that he had in a row when they won the Super Bowl. But I'm always, it just goes to show you,

like, some guys can be awesome and they just disappear and nobody thinks about them again. I'm trying to think, it's probably because he probably should have made the cover of a fantasy magazine

or two more than he did. Like, who would have made him back then? He had a three-year run total, and he got hurt immediately at the start of the 99 season. Then that was it. They couldn't recover from those knee injuries back then. I feel like he's thrown in the mix with Priest Holmes, who also had a three-year, or Larry Johnson or a couple of those guys. But he shouldn't be.

He was phenomenal. They went 7-0 in the playoffs. In every game, he was like 150 yards and two touchdowns. Yeah. Fairly watchable as I got three. Falcons home. No way. For Tampa.

It's a fairly watchable because this game has major NFC South ramifications. I hate it. I could not put it in the Poopfecta. I got Falcons by three. I hate it. I don't feel good about it. That's what I said.

I said the same thing. It's two and a half. Ugh. I mean, how embarrassing. I couldn't even remember. I had to look back. I guess they already played. The Falcons won 16-13.

So, have the Falcons been favored? They've already played these two teams? Yeah 16-13. So if the Falcons have been favored, they've already played these two teams? Yeah, see? They played a few weeks ago, 16-13. Falcons won. So have the Falcons been in games that have a spread of less than three for the entire season now?

I feel like they've invented the Tic Tac Zone is one and a half and under, and the Falcons, it's like two or two and a half every week. They were in like three out of five games where the line – they were favored, and then an underdog, and then it flipped. The Tic Tac flipped on them a couple times. Yeah, it's just so uninspiring, this team.

Can't watch every – what did like B. John Robinson do today? Did he even play? Nothing. I didn't watch him too much. I'm in two leagues, including I think one with you, where Kyle Pitts is just on the waiver wire now. Oh, yeah. He's not even on a team.

We have like 20-person rosters. He's not considered one of the best 20 fantasy tight ends. I spent $30 on him last year. He's 23 years old. Deron Bland, the cornerback for the Cowboys, has more touchdowns than Kyle Pitts in his career. And this was a decent Kyle Pitts game. Yeah.

Kyle Pitts, I think, has three or four touchdowns in his career. And this was a decent game, I'm looking. 51 yards? That's a bravo. That's a huge game for Kyle Pitts. The lesson, as always, I think, is don't take a running back or a tight end's a huge game For Kyle Pitts The lesson as always I think is Don't take a running back

Or a tight end With a top 10 pick Just don't Oh yeah No Just don't Those are the two positions Where you can get anybody

During the season At a discount Next game Fairly watchable I'm sorry I'm looking at Desmond Ritter's numbers And I guess

The answer is He played the Jets But Boyle actually had Probably better numbers Than he did. 12 for 27, 121. Yeah. And he overthrew a couple guys.

I thought the Jets' defense was really good today. I thought that was the best I've seen from them. And it didn't matter because they had no quarterback. That's what I'm saying. Jets and Patriots. What is going on? I said this to Sheil on Thursday. Did you know about how Salah has seven kids?

He's, uh, no, I didn't. Robert Salah, the Jets coach has seven kids. Is it seven? Wow. And I had a friend of mine who's a Jets fan saying, how is this guy a competent coach when he has seven kids? Do you know anybody with even four kids and they're a fucking mess in all aspects of their life, but seven kids? Would you ask somebody with seven kids to go get you a newspaper? No. Or bring you back a six-pack of beer? You're just basically drowning. Well, Phillip Rivers was a borderline Hall of Fame quarterback for a while with maybe even more kids.

So he's the only one who pulled it off. I look at the Jets offense. I'm like, this looks like it's run by a guy who has seven kids. You're exactly right. They can't do anything. See, I cracked it. Jags at Browns. It's in Cleveland.

Big controversy here between DTR and Flacco we'll see this reminds us of Foles versus Wentz and some of the great controversies over the years great spot for the Jags you couldn't pick a better week

to play the Browns because the Browns defense seems to be going the wrong way and I have the Jags by three and a half in Cleveland you're going to get it I had one and a half

it is three. Okay. I couldn't make it more than... I don't know what they're doing with Cleveland. But again, this is not... I don't see that as... This is one of the games that they need to win to get to 10.

Well, Cooper got hurt in the game today, too. And if he doesn't come back, basically, it's Elijah Moore and a bunch of waiver-wire dudes. Well, you know what? That's a funny... That's a good point you bring up because like, um, you know, Flacco obviously has a connection with Elijah Moore that DTR doesn't. So like if he's their main guy, that could be the deciding factor of who was the starting

quarterback. Vikings are at the Raiders and somebody is favored by minus one in this game. And I went back and forth and back and forth and somebody is favored by minus one in this game. And I went back and forth and back and forth, and I settled on Minnesota minus one over Vegas. You got it. I thought Vegas was minus one. I had the same analysis. It is Minnesota by one and a half.

Tick, tack, son. Yeah. I like Vegas in that. I think Dobbs might have hit midnight. What happened to Dobbs? That stupid Monday game. We never even talked about it. Poop Factor.

Three of them. Colts at Bengals. And I put this in the Tic Tac Zone too. I have Colts by one and a half at Cincinnati. You get this also. I was having migraines trying to figure out who's favorite, and I made it a pick'em, which is dumb. It's Colts by three. We haven't had a pick'em all year, I don't think.

No, you're right. They don't want to have pick'ems anymore. When we were growing up as young gamblers, there used to be pick'ems. And then for a minute, they had minus a half in there. Well, that blew our minds. We didn't know what to do with that. Oh, the 0.5-er? Yeah. Tex're used to pick them. And then for a minute, they had like minus a half in there. Well, that blew our minds. We didn't know what to do with that. Oh, the 0.5-er? Yeah. Texans at the

Jets. And I can't believe I have this only Texans by three, but the Jets defense was good enough this week that I did Texans minus three. Is that off? It's low. I said five and a half. I said five and a half. It's

six. It's still the Jets. You think about points scored. You're talking Nico Collins, Robert Woods, and Dalton Schultz. Maybe Dalton Schultz. Pretty mediocre running game. Didn't even play. Yeah, maybe Schultz.

Rookie QB. Bad stadium with a weird turf. Bad luck turf. I don't like this game at all. What do you have for Jets? How many points are they going to score? Twelve? Well, did you see that Salah might do Simeon? Might be their fourth

starting quarterback this year. Yeah, well, I mean, he's spiting them. Come on. Zach Wilson's betteriting himself. Like, come on. Zach Wilson's better than these guys. This is dumb. Unless you think Aaron Rodgers can play. Unless you think, because I read something. He's supposedly going to be ready for round one.

He's ready. That's what they're saying. Come on, Aaron. What a comeback that would be. It'd be funny if he just showed up at somebody's round one, even though the Jets have been eliminated ready he's at the Shakey's

Bowl with us yeah watching Saints Panthers in New Orleans and I don't think the Panthers can be

favored by less than six on the road against basically anyone in the league except for two teams can be underdog

yeah underdogs I have Saints by six exactly that's what I had one in the league except for two teams. It can be underdog, right? Yeah. Underdogs. I have Saints by six, exactly. That's what I had, and it's five and a half. Are you beating me this week? We got three games left. One, two, three, four, five, six. One, two, three, four, six. Yeah, I am.

Eight, six. Okay. Let's do it. We have four games left, right? Oh, no. We got a lot of games left. I thought we had a Sunday night and two Monday nights. I'm sorry. You get the Raiders. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven.

Yeah, it's eight, seven. There's two Monday nights. And a Sunday nighter. Did we do Denver Chargers? We did it. Yeah. Okay. Next one is the Cowboys Eagles on Sunday night.

Yeah. Okay. In Dallas. I have in my notes written two or two and a half. And I'm going to say Cowboys by two and a half. I said three and it is three. Oh. Yeah. Nice. Yeah.

Nice. Well, they, they hate Philly for some reason. I don't know what it is. How many weeks in a row can you fall behind in the first half and then have to scramble back? And I don't know. It looks really easy to move the ball against him. It might be.

We see this sometimes. I think it was smart to put Hertz back in that game. I feel like he's close really easy to move the ball against him. It might be. We see this sometimes. I think it was smart to put Hurts back in that game. I feel like he's close to missing a game soon. I hate to say it. I wouldn't have brought him back. Yeah. So you could win this game and you're in a tie with them. Stop it.

Well, I'm just saying you'd be tied at 9-3. And then it would come down to you beat them, they beat you. and now it comes down to 19 tiebreakers and all kinds of stuff. Monday night, two games. I have no idea why we have now you got, not that it matters, but Washington and Arizona are off week 14. And then we have two Monday night games. All right. Packers at the Giants. And this looks like a classic Packers by three and a half. I said three and a half. It's five and a half.

I forgot how the Giants were off. The Giants were off last week. I forgot how and a half. It's five and a half. I forgot how the Giants were off. The Giants were off last week. I forgot how bad they were. 10, 2, 3, 4. Yeah, you won the week. Congrats. No, it's 10-9. You could time me.

It was a miscalculation. You could time me here. And I think you're going to time me. I was way off here. Dolphins home for the Tennessee Titans. And I have Dolphins by 12 and a half. Oh, wow. Good call.

Why did I say nine and a half? It's 13. It's 13. 13. All right, you tie. We tie. All right, so there's a three-team teaser in there for us if we want it. A little scarred by the Chiefs today.

I know, but that was a weird spot. But the Niners aren't losing to Seattle. Is it time for a 13-pointer finally? I think that's... Well, start with... Do you like Jacksonville tomorrow or no? I do. Let's start with that.

For the people listening, you can do four-team 13-point teasers. It's start with that. For the people listening, you can do 14 13-point teasers. It's minus 120 juice. So you could have Dolphins even against the Titans. You could have the 49ers just to beat the Seahawks. You could take the Bills all the way to plus 16. Wow. And you could take the Packers to plus seven and a half at the Giants. That sounds fun.

Oh, yeah. These teams that don't score? Yeah. Yeah. Sounds great. All right. Let's do some parent corner. All right.

What do you got? All right. So, you know, all of a sudden the house is big, big Oregon, big Ducks fans. And the Pac-12 championship was Friday night. And my son's there. They're playing Washington, who they lost to by a field goal earlier in the year. And my son and his friends actually went to Seattle or wherever. I think they play in Seattle to see that game.

And he's like, I'm jinxing this. I'm not going to Vegas to see the Pac-12 championship. I jinxed the first game. So they lose by a field goal. They don't show up. They lose by a field goal again to Washington. And I'm like talking to him. I'm like, oh, that's a bummer.

He's like, yeah, the whole campus is just distraught. Like they're lighting candles and everything. It's just the worst. I'm like, yeah, that sucks. Like I never had anything. I went to a small school without a college. I can't even imagine what they're going through. And they're going to go to the Big Ten next year and probably going to lose like four games. So this was going to be the

year. Bo Nix was great. He completed like 77% of his passes. They beat the hell out of everybody except Washington. And now they're playing like Liberty in the Fiesta Bowl. That's an insult to injury. But anyway, I'm like, so what were you doing? You were watching and how did it go at the end? He's like, yeah, it was terrible. It's just a bunch of us and we're gathered around and it was awful. He's like, but I will say I did live bet Oregon plus seven and a half when they were down 17. So what do you mean you live bet? How are you betting? He's like, well, no, it's like this app that gives you real money. If you bet fake money, but if you do well enough, they give you real money and they put it in your account.

I was like, they put it in your real account. He's like, yeah. I said, this is, this sounds crazy. I,

I feel like he's not telling me the truth, but I was like, all right, whatever. So he has a bookie in college. I was like, yeah, he's probably into three loan sharks by now.

Like, I don't even know what's right. I mean, how do we expect this to play out? Cats in the cradle, baby. in college? I was like, yeah, he's probably into three loan sharks by now. He is half you. How did we expect this to play out? Cat's in the cradle, baby. My boy is on his way. The apple didn't fall far. The apple's leaning on the tree right now. Well, I started gambling in college. This is part of college.

You learn independence and you learn how to make a parlay and a tease. Yeah, this is it. My freshman year is when I got hammered the worst, I think. Do you remember what did you lose in college betting? I was terrible. Of course I did. What do you mean?

It's 1990, 91. I think it was 1990. Yeah. No, you win your first bet. I remember the first great bet I won was there was a Chief Dolphins playoff game. And I forget who won, but the team that lost somehow covered, but they lost. It was like one of those. Was Montana the Chiefs quarterback?

It was like the... I forget who won, but somebody won by like two or two and a half. The Berg? The underdog, they won by like a point, but the underdog cover is one of those. I was like, this is amazing.

So the team lost, but they won the bet? Like, oh my God. It was like, my whole brain like broke. I thought it was so cool. they didn't have 13 point teasers back then

because I would have lost, I would have lost it all. But no, that was my freshman year and Harry had, believe it or not, that's where I met my friend Harry and he had a good summer it or not that's where i met my friend

harry and he had a good summer job like he would work overtime and i was like i need to borrow everything you made over the summer and and so um i'm i'm forever paying him back for that in different ways but when did you first hit up your parents because you owed money from gambling somehow no it was har Harry was my parents. So Harry was your parents? Yeah, I couldn't tell them. Did you hit up yours? Yeah, it was like my junior or senior year.

I told them I was joining a gym and I needed $500 for a gym membership, which they gave to me. Yeah, this was the game. It was January 5th, 1991. And it was the Dolphins favored by two and a half. They beat the Chiefs 17 to 16. They scored 14 points in the fourth quarter,

but the Chiefs covered the plus two and a half. And it was just magical. Yeah. It was just the best. I was like, oh my God. I can't believe it. Marty Schottenheimer. I won money on Marty Schottenheimer.

Who were the quarterbacks then? We had... You got to find it. Yeah, I got it here. It was Steve DeBerg. Yeah, that's what I figured. Beating Dan Marino. Wow.

Or, did I do that right? Marino won, but you had the point. Dan Marino beating Steve De Or, did I do that right? Marino won, but you had the point. Dan Marino beating Steve DeBerg. Yeah, right. So I bet on Marty Schottenheimer, who blew a playoff game with a two-touchdown lead in the fourth quarter, and I won money on it.

But don't worry, he got me back many, many times over the next 20 years. He didn't cover against the Bills once. Yeah, exactly. So my parent corner is about myself. My wife really wanted to go to the Stevie Nicks concert last night at the Forum.

Stevie Nicks, legend. One of my all-time favorite artists. I normally don't go see musicians that maybe have peaked in the past, right? But in this case, Stevie still got the pipes. I normally don't go see musicians that maybe have peaked in the past but in this case Stevie still got the pipes so we go and

she was really good it was at the LA Forum and we're looking around at the crowd like the audience and you're kind of like wait am I am I these people and then i was trying to think like what was the equivalent of when our parents were going to stuff when we were kids

oh and they were going to concerts but and they were super excited because it was a big star but yet the way we saw that star so it would be like who like uh i don't like dean martin i guess so. So we're talking 30 years ago in their prime? Let's say it's like 1988 and our parents are going to a concert and they're

going to see... Sinatra or something. Yeah, like Sinatra? Yeah, for sure. In the late 50s. And it would have been amazing to see Sinatra. And it was amazing to see stevie nick she's been in my life for 45 years but i was looking around and we were i don't know if we were the youngest people there but the age range was definitely like you know mid 40s and up and uh and i thought we all looked great and i felt awesome about it i was like you know

best looking people here. This is great. But it was a little emotional at the end because the last song was Landslide and she does all these pictures with Christine McVie who died. So it's like you got this artist you're seeing they're paying tribute to this other artist you love and their dad. I'm like, man, I guess I'm

just old. I guess that's the lesson of this is I'm just a legitimately old person. Well, I thought you were going to say that. I thought you said, I don't usually like seeing the ones that are past their prime because you can close your eyes and they sound pretty similar to how you remember them. I saw her with Billy Joel earlier in the year or last year or whatever. She was great. But yes, looking around at the crowd is what's, and we don't see ourselves like that. Right. I would say Stevie and Billy Joel have handled it the best out of anybody from that 70s, 80s era, how they sound now.

They still sound... She could sing all the songs that she used to sing and was still in the right ranges for it. I was really impressed. Yeah, it's good. I'm going to blow your mind here. 1971, which is about when we were born. The same time from then to now is the same time from 1971 to 1919.

Goodbye. See ya. It's the same span. It's World War I to our births. Just listen. Just have Big Dom sit on my head already end it

I've had it that's another job for Big Dom he's Dr. Kevorkian by sitting on people's heads alright cuz you can listen to Cuz on Against All Odds

that podcast as well as Cuz and Sal's winning weekend of FanDuel you're on Through the Ringer with Tate tomorrow

on FanDuel TV and on the Through the Ringer pod. And Wise Guys, did you loss today, though? Lots of fun. Yeah, I got killed. I had the worst bet ever, probably, which is the Commanders. I don't know why I thought they had something to do. I hated it. I thought, I gotta say, my coffee was

still kicking in, but you seemed pretty cocky during the show. I know. You seemed very confident. I tried to get under Raheem's skin a little bit. I know. You seemed very confident. Yeah, you were like, I'm doing great. I tried to get under Raheem's skin a little bit. House is impenetrable. He's just such a nice guy. House's Wi-Fi is so bad, you can't even hear him.

His Wi-Fi is cutting out. That's impenetrable, too. Yeah. But yeah, I was bad today. I apologize to everyone. Yeah. All right, guys. Well, regardless, good job by you. Good job by you. Good job by you!

All right, here with Van Lathan. We're taping this part on Sunday afternoon. We just watched some football together. Yeah. You're going to explain the college football playoff to me. So, Florida State goes 13-0, but they weren't invited to the four-team party. This is one of the many reasons why I don't really care what happens with college football year-to-year, but they weren't invited to the four-team party. This is one of the many reasons why I don't really care what happens

with college football year to year, but you grew up with it, so you have to care. But what a stupid sport. I think that Florida State got shafted. I really do. I think that they got shafted. The issue is the purview that you look at the playoff through,

right? So it's not supposedly the best team. It's the, excuse me, it's not the most deserving team. It's the best team. They want to put the four best teams in is what they're saying. So they're throwing a party and they want the two best games in the semifinals. And it's not just the record. It's not just the record is what they would tell you. What they would tell It's not just the record. It's not just the record is what they would tell you. What they would tell you is not just the record.

It is where you're at right now, a snapshot of how a team is playing. Because Alabama is the team that most people would say that Florida State was up against to get the last spot. They pulled off a fantastic win against Georgia.

I watched it. In the SEC Championship game, right? It was very entertaining. Fantastic win. The Alabama that we're looking at now is the Alabama team, how they're playing now, and what they've built to over the season. Yeah. If you take Alabama from earlier this season

when Jalen Milrow, the quarterback, didn't have the game figured out, Tommy Reese, the offensive coordinator, wasn't calling things, you wouldn't have said that that team was one of the best four teams in the country, right? So if you look at the totality of their season, you're not really taking Alabama's season

into consideration as much as you're taking them what they've done, but how they're playing right now is what the committee is saying. To me, the way I look at it is this. Jordan Travis, the quarterback for Florida State, got injured on a hip drop tackle. Florida State found a way to win over Florida and in the ACC championship game without their quarterback. They went from being a team that was more balanced, played complementary football, offense and defense, to just strangling people defensively and still winning. I think when

you talk about best, you have to talk about full team effort. I think they deserve to be there. So if there was the gambling line for each matchup and it was Michigan, Florida State, wouldn't that spread have been bigger than Michigan, Alabama? Of course. So that must be how they think about it. I wonder if they talk to like casinos. I doubt that they do.

I think what they want to do, and look, I'm not getting on the back of the committee. I think what they want to do is put what they feel like are the teams that are playing the best, that are the best constituted right now in the playoff. And I get that. I just personally think if we're going to play an entire season of a sport, a whole season of a sport. And some team is going to go Saturday in and Saturday out every single weekend and win and then win their conference and find ways to win without their best player. I think they deserve the opportunity to play for. Love Alabama or hate Alabama. They stubbed their toe once at home against Texas. Like Florida State, even though they lost Jordan Travis,

they never had a bad night. They never had a bad night on a Saturday. They never came up short. And I just think it sucks that they don't get rewarded for that. Did you think that was the team that was going to get screwed? Yeah. The moment that he got hurt,

they were essentially out, right? Yeah. Because I can't think of a team that they wouldn't have put were essentially out, right? Yeah. Because I can't think of a team that they wouldn't have put in over them, right? So if it would have come down to them in Texas, I feel like they would have gone, well, Texas is playing much better than them right now, and they

have their own team, even though Texas has a couple of key injuries. Yeah. If Oregon would have somehow beat, not somehow, a very winnable game for them, if they would have beat Washington in the Pac-12 title game, then I still think if it was between Oregon and Florida State that they would have said, hey, Oregon has their whole team, a Heisman Trophy candidate, all of that stuff. So essentially, when they lost their quarterback, their season was over. And I just can't think of another sport where you don't get to go on and prove that you can win with what you still have.

Last thing I'll say about that is this has happened before. Like Ohio State lost their quarterback back in the day, still was able to beat Bramble with their third string quarterback. Different team, different talent at quarterback, but I still think it's fucked up the way they did them. Also, the sports movie version of it is the guy replaces the injured quarterback, comes in, nobody thinks they should be in the final four, and then they end up winning anyway.

That's probably not going to happen here, but it's definitely not happening here. I'm just saying, on paper, that's how they would have written the sports movie. And also, I want people to look at it like this. Roadmaker, the guy that they have backing up Travis, right? He didn't look great when they had him in. He got concussed. He didn't even play in the last game. They had their third string guy playing.

And it was just also bad for them that their game was on right after the SEC championship game. Which was really high level. Which was really good, really high level. And then you have a guy pass for 50 some odd yards. It just looks bad. The eye test, it looks terrible. But I want people to think about the fact that you're talking about a quarterback that

was taking second team reps the entire season, Rotemaker, right? Wasn't working out with the number ones. What you saw from him would have probably been different if he had an extra three weeks how many ever practices they get between now and january 1st to work out with the ones to have the coaches really coach him up to go in there and be their starter to game plan around his strengths and weaknesses it would have been different it would have been a completely different thing so you you really don't know you know what i'm saying so it would have been different. It would have been a completely different thing. So you really don't know. You know what I'm saying?

So you would have, you would have bumped out Alabama. I would have put Florida State in the 14th playoff. And then Georgia, if they had beaten Alabama yesterday, what seed would they have been? Probably one.

That's crazy. But I mean, the college football I grew up with was we voted for it at the end of the year, which was a hundred times stupider. And then next year it's changing, right? Next year, I think it goes to like a 12 team playoff.

I think it's eight or 12. So we went from not quite enough teams to too many teams. Maybe. 12 is stupid. I mean, I mean, this is like, you're basically,

this is your whole life is just playing for this football team. You're supposed to be in college. I mean, LSU right now is 13th in the college football playoff rankings, right? So you would have been on the bubble? In the 12 team playoff, we'd have been maybe right there, maybe so close. With a quarterback coming on. With a quarterback coming on. Might be in a Pats uniform next year.

Yeah, exactly. Maybe, maybe you guys will be lucky to have him. He's the most dynamic player in college football. As you know, I'm all about charisma and do your teammates like you. And those are the only things I care about at this point. We were watching Channel NBC, the post-game show before the Sunday night. Channel NBC, yes. Channel NBC, whatever channel that is.

And they were showing Minshew celebrating the Colts win and doing all his locker room stuff with the teammates. And I was like, that's what I want. I want to figure out a way to work that into the combine, how the guy got along with the offensive lineman and the secondary. You know what's funny about Jaden Daniels? When he left, there was so much smoke around him leaving Arizona State because when he left Arizona State, there was talk there that his teammates

didn't like him and they wanted him to leave. Since he's gotten to LSU, whatever kicks in when these guys get some new scenery, beloved by his teammates. What was the draft day? What was the guy's name, the quarterback?

I can't remember. The Kevin Costner movie? Bo Callahan. And nobody came to his party. Nobody came to his birthday party, allegedly. But that was like kind of the smartest part of the movie. Quarterback's the leader. I mean, we certainly, with the Patriots, we've had the opposite. Nobody liked Max Jones?

I don't think people like him now. I think when he came in, people liked him. He seemed like he was popular in Alabama, but I think... Well, I will say this. You keep throwing pick sixes. There's no such thing as a quarterback. The quarterback has so much control over the game. There's no such thing as a lovable, inept quarterback.

No. You have to go out there and execute. Or guys who are busting their ass on defense and all that other stuff getting open. They're going to be like, we can't fucking win with this guy. Well, that's the Patriots thing right now, where they have this defense that's done this historic least amount of points led up by a defense that's lost all the games. And they must be like, what? Like, they gave him six points today.

Let me ask you this. Yeah. Since you're not big on college football, how do you- It's not my fault. Look, I've come to terms with it. I grew up in an area where other than when Doug Flutie was good on BC for a couple years like we just

we didn't have it it was all pro sports it's like the college football people here at the Ringer is me Rosillo and fucking Jomie you know what I mean I'm sure there are others but I haven't really connected to them how do you

get in the know on who you want your team to draft? Is this combines? When does it start for you? Well, I've never been in this situation with the Pats for the last 20 years. I remember the Bledsoe season when it seemed like we were going to get one of the top two picks. And I remember Bledsoe had this game in the snow that I feel like I've watched it. But he threw this great pass for the go-ahead touchdown, and it just seemed like he had it. And it was like, man, if we could get this guy. We never had a really good quarterback in my entire life. So I was really focused on that, but it was pre-internet.

It was only so much, you need to read Sports Illustrated, watch a couple of TV shows. Now it's gotten so advanced. I've never had an important pick like this with all the things we have at our disposal now, you know, like the draft guides and the YouTube clips. So I'm going to get into it, but I'm never going to understand as much as some of the people that live and breathe it. It's all a fucking crapshoot, though. Also, it really seems like it matters where you land because everybody I know who loves college football, who opinion I respected, they all really like Bryce Young. You liked him. Russillo liked him.

Cerruti. Everybody was like, this guy's going to be a really good pro. He has it. I'm not ready to write Bryce Young off just yet. Obviously, the CJ Stroudoud so we watched him today it was in a it was bad so bad down the stretch i'm not ready to write him off the thing that you were judging bryce young on was obviously there were some physical disadvantages he's not the biggest guy in the world yeah um the accuracy was incredible. He could make all the throws, but his poise was just otherworldly.

He was, you were just completely confident that he was going to make the right play. And, you know, at this point, there's just none of that. Like we watched him today

and he panicked. He panicked a few times. He had a third and and a fourth one, and he just botched it. I will say this, though. I want people to understand. I know everyone wants to see flashes of what somebody can be really early,

but think about it. Peyton Manning, his first year. 1-15 or something like that. Whatever. A record for interceptions. Sometimes it takes guys. The C.J. Stroud thing is really remarkable.

It's really remarkable how well he's doing because you just don't see that from rookie quarterbacks that often. I mean, you see flashes. There are guys that are good, but guys that come right in and that guy's almost in the fucking MVP conversation. The part I don't get that I just cannot... And I've talked to

so many people about it in my life, about what happened to Mack Jones. Kevin Wilds was here today and we were talking about it. He's a big Pats fan. Mack Jones was good in 2021. For a rookie, he passed a lot of the checkpoints you would have wanted from your QB. He had poise.

He made good decisions. He really felt like he was maximizing what he could do, and I trusted him. Within two years, he's completely unplayable. And it's this position that I don't think there's another position in any sport, maybe baseball closers, and maybe this happens with hockey goalies, but where if you lose your confidence, you're done.

You can't come back. We were talking about there was a couple plays he had last week if you lose your confidence, you're done. You can't come back. And we were talking about there was a couple plays he had last week where it just looked like a guy who was so terrified to make a mistake that it actually made it worse. That's when you make... It was like watching when you get mad at your dog

and your dog's just kind of looking at you terrified. The body language was gone with him. And I don't know how you lose that in two years. You say get mad at the dog. Is there something I need to know? Do I need to call the ASPC?

You know, when the dog takes a shit in the living room, I'm going to have- How do you respond to it? I'm going to have- What I need to know. You know what kind of dog- There might be some yelling. Everyone that knows me knows- You're not a dog yeller?

I'm not a dog yeller. Whatever the dog does. You're a trophy generation dog owner? Yeah, it's just more love. It's just, hey, you little angel. I'm sorry you shit all over everything. That was such a great dub. What a great... I can't believe I picked her up. Yeah, boy, yeah.

So honored. Can you rate the quarterbacks for me? Because you watch college football every Saturday for 11 to 12 hours a day. Yes. So your favorites just based on coming into the pros, how you think they're going to do, what's your list?

So you have of the guys that are going to be available, you're going to have, so it's Caleb, it's Drake May, it's Jaden Daniels. Penix. Penix. Okay. So this is what I would say. And Deion's kid. He's not. it's Jaden Daniels Penix Penix okay so this is what I would say and Deion's kid

he's not he's coming back he's definitely coming back yeah he's coming back and then you have Bo Nix who is out of eligibility after 15 years but I don't think

yeah Bo Nix he comes in as a veteran yeah I don't think he's a rookie veteran age 28 a lot of people are looking for Bo Nix to make a big splash

in the pros. This is what I would say. Just based off what you see in college, it's going to be hard to pass up Caleb Williams first. What are your Caleb Williams concerns? I know you watch a lot of USC football. There's some red flags with me with Caleb Williams. There's a hero ball situation there.

And look, it could be the situation. What does that mean for a quarterback? Okay, so. How does a quarterback have a hero ball situation they ask them to do a whole lot yeah and because they ask them to do a whole lot it's not necessarily might not necessarily be caleb williams's fault because they ask them to do a whole lot it seemed like sometimes caleb williams was trying to make the home run play every single time it seems like a lot of times when there were simpler reads to make or when there were other things that he could do

that Caleb Williams was trying to do too much every time. And it might have been because they didn't have a great defense and there wasn't a ton of talent around him that he felt like he had to do that. Jomie and I were watching a game one time, and I told you this before, and it was like a double overtime game and they were running the zone read with him and he was pulling it every single time he felt

like he had to do it himself yeah but I was watching the game with Jomien and I go you know if he would have given that the the back would have walked in if he actually reads it the guy's gonna score but it just felt like sometimes Caleb was pressing a little bit. And as the year went on, you start to see in games, like in the Notre Dame game and other games like that, when he needed to probably read a little bit more, take what the defense was giving him a little bit more, and not try to make the home run play every time,

that he turned the ball over a little bit. That's not to say that he's not a slam dunk, shoe-in prospect. It's just to say that there are some things there that you might have to coach out of him. Drake May... Who would you compare him to? Patrick Mahomes. I mean, that's an easy comparison right there. Yeah, but look, here's the thing about Patrick

Mahomes that people have to understand. Patrick Mahomes is at Texas Tech, and I remember watching him. We played them in the Texas Bowl one year, Fournette and that whole team, and all of those guys were there. We played them, and I'm like, yo, this guy, Patrick Mahomes, the cerebral part of the game that he was so far advanced and ahead of, right? He really took to the pro game in a real way.

Now, that's not to say that he didn't have the head for the game. I'm not saying that at all. This is with the Brock Purdy thing. The processing. He always made the, he makes the spectacular play.

Yeah. But he's also reading pre-snap. He's reading, he's reading all of the things he's, he's looking at it. And I don't think a lot of people could see that it was all about his physical gifts. A lot of like he's throwing sidearm and all that stuff, but that's a pocket quarterback that, that knows where his reads are and where his advantages are. A lot of that also probably has to do with the fact that he gets drafted to a spot where one of the greatest offensive coaches of all time is, right?

And gets to sit for a year. And gets to sit for a year. So all of this stuff matters. So you don't think Caleb Williams coming to a 72-year-old head coach with no weapons? With Bill O'Brien as his offensive line. Maybe not. I don't know if that's like a great place.

Well, a great place for him to be. But him, he's great. Drake May is great. Drake May has all of the tangibles there. Who does he remind you of? That's interesting. I'd have to think about that. I'd have to think about that.

But if you're looking at who Drake May reminds you of, it's a solid quarterback who can make all the throws, who's hitting maybe like a Justin Herbert a little bit. Not quite as big. I'd take Justin Herbert. Not quite as big or as imposing as that guy. Who actually comes through in the fourth quarter. Here's the thing about Drake May, though.

The thing about Drake May is that he doesn't, from what I've seen, he hasn't played in a lot of huge games. Yeah. Well, there's the Trubisky piece too that makes me nervous. Right. He hasn't played- It goes to Trubisky because Trubisky was North Carolina too.

Right. I don't like that piece. Hasn't played in a lot of great games, a lot of huge games. And then your guy you love. Jaden Daniels. Jaden Daniels has come so far. And I think the knock on him before

was what he could do from the pocket. When he gets moving, he's electric in the way that he moves, right? He gets his top end speed very fast, but not just that, like a very decisive and elusive runner. Like he fits into spaces and moves around. It's very tough.

So who does he remind you of? Lamar Jackson, but, but except for one thing, he's displayed to me a competence from the pocket this year. Like standing in, particularly like the last time we saw him against Texas A&M, some of the throws that he was making, these are throws to very tight windows, outside of the hashes, maybe even some poison in the pocket that you didn't see from Lamar Jackson at Louisville. So I really do think he has a chance

to be a good pro. But physically, he's a slight guy. You're going to want to see him put a little weight on and adapt to the pro game. Michael Penix just drops it in there. Michael Penix is kind of like a hyper-accurate quarterback. A hyper accurate quarterback.

Big, great stature, hyper accurate guy, like a bigger Russell Wilson. I know nothing. And I actually watched more college football than usual this year. And I was surprised to find out that he wasn't as highly regarded as the other guys as a draft prospect.

Michael Penix? Because just watching on the TVs, it seemed like he had everything the other guys had. But I know he's got some. Has had a lot of injuries, man. Yeah, is that what it is? Yeah, like a pretty checkered injury history. It's actually awesome to me

that he's been able to succeed in the way that he has. I say Russell Wilson, but almost more like a Drew Brees, like a bigger Drew Brees. He's just super accurate, decent athlete. You know what I mean? He's not going to run or take off or anything like that,

but he's just had a lot of injuries and pros obviously don't like that. So if my Pats get one of the first two, I'm good. Drake May or Caleb Williams, you'll be good. Okay, good. But you guys want to really figure out

what kind of system y'all are running. We got a lot to figure out. Last thing. The last time you came on the pod to talk college football, we talked about Dion. It was the height of Dion. It was like Apex Dion content week. What's next? What college is

he going to go to to save after this? He's going to parlay. And since then, it went in the tank and then some. And somehow he's the Sportsman of the Year for sports. It's a really strong month for Sports Illustrated, by the way, with the AS stuff and that Sportsman of the Year pick. But it just went completely sideways. They've gotten worse every week.

Their head recruiter left. I don't know what's happened. But could you see this? When did you realize something was really wrong with this team? Really, it was in the Colorado State game.

Because they come out of the gate and they beat TCU. Then they take care of business against Nebraska. During the Colorado State game, we get into overtime. The whole world is watching the game and I'm like, are these guys any good? I'm not talking about Colorado. I'm talking about Colorado State game, we get into overtime. The whole world is watching the game.

And I'm like, are these guys any good? I'm not talking about Colorado. I'm talking about Colorado State. Yeah. Like, there were crossing routes that were there open for State every single time. They were making some of State's players look like they were NFL prospects. And it was just, it was weird. It was like, okay, well, you know, Deion's not working with very much there in Colorado.

It might be a longer season than we thought. And here's the like, okay, well, you know, Deion's not working very much there in Colorado. It might be a longer season than we thought. And here's the thing in being fair, and I want to just be honest about something. A lot of people are getting frustrated

because they feel like Prime is getting a blank check to do whatever and not have anyone be critical of him. Yeah. It's just very difficult

to be critical of Deion Sanders. He's the most media-friendly coach we've had in a long time. Not only that, but I've been looking up to Deion Sanders since I was 11 years old. Yeah. In every single way, whatever he did, it was cool. The ultimate competitor, swag, he just always won, right? But you have to be realistic about something. Everyone's saying that Colorado is better off this year, right? They won more games. They won one game last year. They won four games this year. That's an improvement. That's true. The program is better off.

The program improved. This team got worse and worse and worse throughout the year until they eventually quit. And that's a fact. And the reason why it happened is because they didn't have what they needed in the trenches. Their quarterback was getting brutalized. The scheme that was being run there did him no favors. Shador would hold the ball a little bit. And then the dysfunction that was around the team. I mean, if we just look at other stuff, they got robbed.

Dion is the only college football coach that they've been robbed wherever they went. They got, I guess, robbed at Jackson State. They got robbed here by the recruits. It's just, there's a lot of dysfunction that's followed it. The decommitments, the fact that they lost a tight ends coach

who was one of the best recruiters in the entire country. Like all of this stuff, the fact that Deion, it's fair and unfair. It's fair that you would have expectations of someone who has such high expectations of themselves, but it's unfair that people aren't giving Deion the opportunity to learn on the job as a coach. I told you before, Nick Saban lost, I think it was ULL his first year, it was Monroe or something like that, his first year as Alabama's coach. So

you have to improve and get better at the place that you're at. But the reality is Colorado right now is in the fucking shitter. It is. It's in a worse situation right now than they were at the beginning of this season. And normally the way you judge a college football season than the job that a coach did is how the team improves throughout the year. This team didn't get any better. Yeah. They didn't. Now, if you want to say, hey, they just didn't have the horses to do it, well, fine.

But part of coaching the team is coaching the guys up and figuring out some kind of way that they can be successful. And it didn't happen here and that plus the fact the demotion of the office of coordinator all of this other stuff Dion calling out the players is the big thing all of that calling out never works all of that stuff is just you can tell that there's still things that he has to learn he'll get it right it'll be fine but it is aggravating for me to watch the fact that like no one keeps it real when they're talking about him or to him like no one like watching him in these post-game press conferences is so awesome because he is kicking the media's fucking ass. They are so scared of him. Like, nobody could even ask,

like, coach, Dino come out and be like, okay, well, you know, we improved the ball. We improved running the ball. We ran the ball for 81 yards on 37 carries. So that's an improvement

over last week where it was 80, 79 yards. So we did that a little bit better. Nobody goes, hey, the running game sucks and it's actually not getting any better. Coach, what do you have to do to run the ball better? It's just, he's not going to get better

unless there's some sort of accountability for the way things are run in Colorado. So the best thing you can do if you want Colorado to succeed is to talk about Deion and Colorado in an honest way. And everyone knows they're going to be successful. Prime does not fail. This season to me was not a successful season. It wasn't a successful season. It wasn't. It wasn't. It wasn't a successful season. It was progress from where they were before. But overall, things got so bad towards the end, you can't say they were a success this year.

Is it possible that maybe he's better off with the smaller program, being the big fish in the small pond, where you can use some of your celebrity charm and all that, but maybe when you're actually battling like the teams they have to battle when you're at the high div one, maybe that's not going to happen for him?

In the immediate, it's not going to happen for him in the immediate it's going to be easier for you to bring in travis hunter and and shadur and shiloh and guys like that and win at a place like jackson state because um the discrepancy between the athletic talent between the guys are gonna be so great right right? Right. What I would say is it would be very difficult for me to believe... Look at you measuring your thoughts. This is so interesting.

No, I'm just... It's Deion Sanders things, like a third rail. I'm just being honest. I'm trying to be real about it. What I would say is this. I can't see him failing in the long term.

The question you're asking me is, is it possible that the job is too big for him? I don't think anything's too big for Deion Sanders. However, I do think that they were a little bit in over their head this year. The only reason I

asked was because it felt like one of those, and we see this with college especially, where it just seems like the snowball rolling down the hill where one thing goes wrong the next thing goes wrong and usually there's no coming back

from a season like that usually the coach gets fired or all these changes happen like from where we were what were they the first they were

3-0 they were 3-0 and they were ranked in that Oregon game and then all of a sudden it was probably red flag they were like 20 point underdogs or whatever it was. Let me tell you what Oregon did.

Last thing I'll say. Everybody was trying to win the press conferences. Deion Sanders, you can't win a press conference. Right. You can't. If it's going to be about press conference or being in front of a kid or something like that, Deion Sanders is going to win every time. Everybody talked about what Dan Lanning said.

No one talked about what Dan Lanning did. What Dan Lanning did was he showed any recruit anywhere that if you want to come to Colorado, for a little while, you're going to have to get your head fucking beat in. And not only are you going to get your head fucking beat in, but because it's Colorado, everybody's going to see.

Right. You're not going to be able to hide the games. It's not going to be like, oh, while you were sleeping, Colorado fucking got dusted off by Arizona. No, you're not going to be able to hide the games. It's not going to be like, oh, while you were sleeping, Colorado fucking got dusted off by Arizona. No, no, no. Everyone is going to watch every single snap. And when you're getting fucked over,

the whole world is going to see it. And Dan Lanning put that out there. Everybody else took the blueprint. They didn't get blown out a lot. But whatever happens, it's going to be scrutiny on you. And if you're not winning for that it's tough for kids I thought it was so much fun

it was such a bummer that it turned out the way it did you were so into it I really was because I kind of hate college football and I love that

somebody came in and flipped it on its head and made people so mad that was great what I like is just having him around I like everything is better with Prime everything is better

I like the party that was going on down there I like the fact that so many people were interested my mom who is just only in the bag for LSU was like Prime got them boys going huh and then three weeks later it was like a fucking funeral with everybody watching them have to lose

yeah the glitz and the glamour is one thing but Three weeks later, it was like a fucking funeral with everybody watching them have to lose. Yeah. The glitz and the glamour is one thing, but there hasn't been a college football coach that has ever succeeded that wasn't detail and process oriented. And I think he's still learning that at the power five level. But once he does learn it, everything else that he brings is going to be tough to beat, which is going of see how long it takes. I remember when Steve Sperger got the, what was it? The Redskins job. Yeah. And it was just a disaster.

And one of the things that came out was like, he was basically, he worked from like eight to four. And it was like, I'm out. Right. Because it was in college. It was seven, eight hour days and that's it. And then the pros, it's like, no, no, these guys sleep on the couch at night because they don't even have time to go home.

And he was like, I'm out. And the team just completely fell apart, went sideways. But you see that sometimes when the college guys go to the pros. I think this happened with Urban Meyer, where it's just the pace you have to work professionally. It's a whole other level than some of the college programs. And I wonder with Dion, we'll see if he can, you know, the celebrity of being the coach of that team seemed like part of the job. And maybe that, maybe that doesn't work that way.

Well, if you're going to be a high level college football program, you can also have the celebrity element the way they did. Maybe I'll say this. People talk about how Dion rubbed people the wrong way at Colorado. He rubbed people the wrong way at Colorado. He rubbed them the wrong way when he was in the SWAC too. Yeah. It was the same thing. It's not so much a shakeup and college football is a good old boys club. Don't get me wrong.

It is. But when they were talking about Eddie, Eddie Robinson, the coach, I think of, of, of Alabama state, talking about the fact that Deion ain't swag. They were talking about what they know their tradition to be, what they know their process

to be, what they know their football establishment to be over decades. And they were saying, this guy is coming in and he's not a part of that. He's trying to do it an all new different way and you can't do it that way. So wherever he goes, he's going to have to run up against this, against that. But what I would say is this year, the way they were doing it, just didn't work. And it didn't work not just because they didn't have the horses. I think that team is better than a 4-8 team. I do.

I think they're better than a 4-8 team. So you wouldn't have made him Sportsman of the Year? No. I think that's a joke. But look, if we're talking about a cultural, if we're talking about a... Mine is Emei Adoka. I'm voting for him now.

Talk back to LeBron. Fumbler of the year. Fumble knee along, man. I like that he just went at LeBron. It was the first time anyone's done it. Oh, he didn't go at LeBron. He went at the player. The player LeBron.

I know, but he didn't even mention him by name. He was like, me and the player got into it. Emei was go at LeBron. He went at the player. The player LeBron. I know, but he didn't even mention him by name. He was like, me and the player got into it. It may was Sonny LeBron, like a motherfucker. He was like, it was a great call between me and the player. I just like, I, you know, I really miss that guy who's Celtic coach. I know, I know he had to go. The way he treated them the first month, he would get so mad at them

and it was, it was just great. Like they actually really listened to him and respected him and didn't fuck around with him. Before I get out of here, let me ask you something on him.

Cause I asked you this before and we didn't get a chance to talk about it. Like, you know, Houston is, they've come back down to earth a little bit,

but at the same time. But they came with, they still haven't won on the road. They still haven't won on the road. They still haven't won on the road. Zero road wins. I know. But there's a snap and an energy. They have something. There's something. What is it with him that gets guys going? Like, what makes

it make such a good coach? Because I'm watching them. They're playing more competitively. Jalen Green is playing inside of his game. Man, Sanguin is fucking dominating Anthony Davis and all of this stuff. What is it about him that makes guys play for him so hard?

I think he's actually just a badass. I think he's just a really tough guy, old school. Treats the dudes like men, makes eye contact with you, holds you accountable. If he doesn't like shit you do, he'll pull you out, he'll yell at you. I went to Celtic games where he would do a 180.

Jalen Brown would take a 25-foot three, and he would do a 180 and turn toward the crowd and be like, what the fuck are we doing? He's just one of those old school coaches that is out of a sports movie. I think you send them that Houston team, a bunch of young guys who've never won anything except for Van Vliet. Brooks won a playoff series. And just, it's like, this is how we're going to play.

And if you don't want to play that way, you're not going to get minutes from me. Yeah. And if you act like a shithead on the court, I'm going to take you out. Yeah, take you out, and he might fucking take your wife out. So when he starts with LeBron. You just never know you never know what the penalty could be for for you might you might come home and you might not have a fucking family

oh my god well so he goes at LeBron right and it's not about LeBron it's about he's trying to show his team I'm not afraid of this guy I know you guys all revere him you all grew up with LeBron

posters and you had his shoes and it's an honor to play him and you want to get a photo op with him after but fuck this guy he's trying to beat us

and I'm going to stand up to him and I'm going to talk to him, you know, like, like we're peers. Yeah. Cause we are. Cause we are.

And I'm going to, and he, and he's going to try to big boy me and come over here. And I'm like, fuck this guy and go right back at him. People don't do that with LeBron. And then your team's going to see that. And then they're going to be like,

wait, wait, why isn't our coach afraid of LeBron? Yeah. I belong on this court with him too. Like we're in the same NBA. And then it's, and then they're going to be like, wait. Wait, why isn't our coach afraid of LeBron? Yeah, I belong on this court with him too. We're in the same NBA and before you know it, you're fucking competing. Do you see how discombobulated

LeBron got from that too? He was like, wait a second, this guy's eyeballing me? What's going on? I don't think LeBron backed down. He didn't back down, but he was surprised. I liked it. I think when I look... I don't think that one's over either. I don't think it's over at all.

When I looked at it, I think the way M.A. was looking at him, he was looking at him with a look. He was looking through him. And I think that more than anything was like, shit. Because he was standing there, standing in his ground like, oh, what? It wasn't just to stand in the ground. It was- What are you going to do? Taking the little ground. What are you going to do?

Before we go, can you make the case for the town over heat? Oh, real quick. I know you guys are going to hate me. You guys don't. You love the town. Come on. So this is my thing. Heat is more majestic than the town. It is. It's a more majestic movie.

It's got higher levels than The Town. Pacino, De Niro, Kilmer, Michael Mann, all of that stuff, right? Wayne Groh. Wayne Groh. Shout out to Wayne Groh, man. Shout out to Wayne Groh. Shout out to the whole fucking crew. Michael T.

Williamson, everybody. Great. The Town is a stickier story. And the reason why it's a stickier story is because it's this heist story that is, to me, woven around interpersonal relationships, trauma and dynamics between actual characters. Heat is more like it's happening around the people.

There's not very many emotions that are really in the movie. There's emotional stuff happening between Shahurlus and his wife and all of that. But the town, it's like you have people that are dealing with trauma

from their mothers and their fathers. And then you have love. You have all of this stuff. And it's central to the movie. I gave your mother a taste. I gave your mother a taste. Put her on the chemical side or whatever

the fuck that guy was talking about that guy was awesome and then even with Jeremy Renner's character with Jim and Ben Affleck it's really about their loyalty to one another and like how far you're willing to go for your friend who you know is fucked up who's guy are we gonna take

all of that stuff. So to me, when I think about watching a movie that has all the cool shit as well, but also at the end, you're so happy and so invested into the characters, I go with The Town, man.

I mean, Heat was the foundational movie for the rewatchables and the reason we created it. It is one of my favorite movies of all time. The Town probably, you could make a case, pound for pound, is more rewatchable because it's shorter. You can jump in at any time. There's no, doesn't veer off to the side like we were talking about.

There's that Wayne Groh hooker subplot. There's Natalie Portman in the bathtub we gotta go through that whole thing there's a couple Pacino and his wife who hates him scenes

that you know the town is just cruising yep there's no dead time at all even like the John Hamm's at Sully's scenes

with uh what's her face Blake Lively's character yeah Shine's mother Shine. Shine's mother. Shine's mother. She pissed me off, though. I hate those fucking movies.

I hate characters like that. Like, characters that fuck up everything. Like, Pauly from Rocky V. All y'all watch Rocky V. Pauly from every Rocky. What do you mean? Just Rocky V? Okay, so this is what I'm saying.

Pauly did lose Sly Stallone's movie. Like, are you auditioning for the Rocky V rewatchables right now? What I'm telling you is, Pauly did lose Slice the Lens, bro. Like, are you auditioning for the Rocky V rewatchables right now? What I'm telling you is that all of y'all, that's all I can tell, none of y'all really had to struggle in your lives that are listening to this. It's one thing for Rocky to get his

fucking head beat in. By the Russian. And then living in the fucking mansion with the fucking robot. I can't get over the fact that Pauie lost all of this motherfucker's money on some dumb shit and then this motherfucker gotta go back living in the by meek mill in philly and the whole situation is fucked that's so fucked to me and shine the fact that she got the whole crew killed when they put stuff like that in movies it always fucks with me

really bad when one person this would be a good podcast each episode's about a character who just fuck things up for everybody bruh it happens so it's like how can i every time i watch the movie i'm like she ratted them out got everybody killed the big jolly fat motherfucker who went out and got rolled to his death my man got shot jim got shot he took a drink of coke his only pleasure before he died was a fucking coke for some random ass fast food joint in boston somewhere and it was warm and it was warm who's the sopranos episode for you fuck things up for everybody oh that's a good question. But see, Tony never really took an L like that. It's probably Jackie April Jr.

Nah, but he only really fucked himself. Blew the April dynasty. He blew the April dynasty. He got a lot of people killed, but I'm trying to think of who fucked up in the Sopranos

that really got everybody killed. Oh, Joey Pants' character. Ralphie? He started a lot of shit. He did. Oh, Buscemi. Buscemi's character. Buscemi.

He had to go. Orlando in The Wire. He fucked up. A lot of people fuck up and ruin everything. You know what I'm saying? So for her, whenever I watch the movie, I start cringing knowing that she's going to rat out the whole crew. But nobody's worse than Pauly.

No, Pauly. Bruh. Rocky I, disaster. Letauly. No, Pauly. Bruh. Rocky won disaster. Let me tell you how I look at this. Rocky ended up getting sick. His wife died. Yeah. What if they didn't have no medical insurance, bruh?

What if all of this carnage that they went through was because he fought for that many years, that many rounds? Do we blame Rocky at all, though, for being like, what do I do with all my money? Oh, Pauly's got a guy, my alcoholic brother-in-law, who's been a complete fuck-up this entire series except for when we went to Russia

and I just had a two-person corner and for some reason Pauly became my cut man. That is a good question. Other than that, Pauly has no wins for the entire series. The question would be, why is Pauly handling the money? Actually, if you think about that too much, that's a good question. Other than that, like Pauly has no wins for the entire series. The question would be why is Pauly handling the money? Actually,

if you think about that too much, that's a huge plot hole because by the time you get to Beverly Hills- Huge plot hole. Would you give Pauly like $100 to go buy anything?

Would you trust him with a Postmates order? And I will say this, Rocky is still like the heavyweight champion, right? So like, they're living in Philly,

I get it, but like he's still one of the most famous guys in the world. So you think that- I would say by the time Rocky IV is happening, he's probably the most famous athlete in the world. Right, so- He's more famous than any basketball player, any football player, any baseball player.

So Rocky can't get a job with HBO Boxing. Rocky can't get a job calling fights. He can't go sell his autographs. Nothing like that. Rocky's got to go back and work in a hotel.

But you stand by Rocky V though. What? You like Rocky V. Yeah. Go for it. You like that song? Rocky V's not bad. Now that I have 35 years of distance,

when it pops out, I'm like, all right, he's going to fight Tommy Morrison. I'll watch this part. Tommy Gunn just fucking turns on Rocky for no reason. He doesn't even care that Rocky has a son. Well, I like that he turns on him because the newspapers are like, Rocky's puppet wins again.

That's the reason. What newspaper headline would, Rocky's puppet wins again. That's the reason. What newspaper headline would be Rocky's puppet wins three round knockout? They actually had a cartoon in the movie of Rocky's hand up Tommy's ass. Like he was an actual puppet. And, you know, Tommy couldn't fucking handle that. I don't blame him. I think he had to turn on Rocky. I'm happy to do it. We'll do it

in 2024. Well, we're doing Christmas Vacation in a couple weeks. I love it. It's going to be exciting. All right, Van Lathan, good to see you. Peace. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Jonathan Kerma and Steve Cerruti. Thanks to Cousin Sal. Don't forget, new Rewatchables

coming on Monday night, and I'll see you on this feed a little bit later this week, I think on Tuesday. We'll see. I don't have feelings with him On the wayside On the wayside I don't have On the wayside On the first I never was

And I don't have To ever forget