The Bill Simmons Podcast - The Surging Knicks, Zombie Heat, and a Bizarre College Hoops Season With Ariel Helwani, Mike Schur, Kevin O’Connor, and Tate Frazier

Episode Date: March 1, 2023

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Ariel Helwani to discuss the fifth-place Knicks, their recent win streak, their playoff hopes, and more (4:18). Then, Bill is joined by writer, producer, and loyal Boston sports fan Mike Schur to talk about "sports hating" the Miami Heat, the uninspiring Boston Red Sox, and the baseball pitch clock (20:05). Finally, Bill talks with Kevin O'Connor and Tate Frazier about the return of 'One Shining Podcast,' yet another bizarre college basketball season, tournament odds, and more (54:13)! Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Ariel Helwani, Tate Frazier, Kevin O'Connor, and Mike Schur Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, if you love The Mandalorian, season three is coming this weekend. We just put up a primer on our Ringerverse podcast. Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson broke everything down that you need to know as we head into this weekend. And then that feed's going to be popping as soon as that show starts. We're going to have the Midnight Boys, House R, covering everything, the Ringerverse. Go check it out. This episode is brought to you by Prime Video.

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all. We've been doing pretty well on million dollar picks this year. I love the first month of the season because you have to go into the season thinking, I think Pittsburgh's going to be good. I think the Chargers are going to be good. I think Seattle's going to be good. And then trying to back what you think in those first few weeks and then zag the other way. If you were wrong, you could bet on new and fun markets on FanDuel, like to catch a pass, same game parlays, highest scoring game across the Sunday slate, offensive TDs, the next drive. They have so much stuff. It's crazy.

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details. You must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem called Win 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I put up a new rewatchablesables on Monday night. Me, Sean Fantasy, and Chris Ryan. We did Catch Me If You Can with Leo DiCaprio and Tom Hanks directed by Steven Spielberg. This was a really fun podcast and we had one of the best debates we've

ever had that I won't spoil on this pod, but it involved Hanks and Cruz. Sean and I went at it and Chris was more like an MMA referee. Every once in a while I would come in and pull us apart. You can check that out. You can also check out the prestige TV podcast this week where not only we're

breaking down last of us and poker face, but we have a hall of fame succession episode coming. I think late Wednesday night we did an episode from season one, me and Sean and Chris. We actually taped Catch Me If We Could. Sean and I, we cleaned up the cuts and bruises from that podcast. Then we went right into the Succession one. So that is coming as well. If you love Succession, I would highly recommend checking that out. We have a bunch of good pop culture podcasts going, actually. I mentioned the Ringiverse at the top cover and The Mandalorian. Sean and Amanda and Wesley Morris, our old teammate, they did their alternative Oscars on The Big Picture. And then The Town

with Matt Bellany has been covering all the Oscar storylines as they pop up, as they keep going. But as we get into March, it's going to heat up even more. I also think the Chris Rock Netflix special, I think is going to be a way bigger deal than people realize. That's all I'm going to say. We have that, we have UFC this weekend, college basketball's heating up. All of a sudden, a really fun time

to have this podcast again. I was going to morning after football ends. I even took the Tuesday and Thursday pods off last week. The terrible all-star game happened. You feel like there's a little bit of a rut. It's pouring rain in LA. Then all of a sudden we start heading to March and the skies start opening up. The NBA starts heating up again. The Oscars are coming. Good movies, good TV. Everything's coming back. Basketball playoffs, hockey playoffs. I watched a regular season hockey game last night from start to finish.

Oilers-Bruins. I was watching basketball and that at the same time. We got the Masters coming. We have the Wimbledon and the French Open. This is a great time of year. A lot of good UFC stuff coming up. Coming up on this podcast, Ariel Hawane is going to talk about the Knicks.

I'm going to talk about the Miami Heat and why I can't stand them. There was somebody else who can't stand them. Mike Shore. As sports fans, not as journalists, we're just going pure sports fan hate. This is my sports fan hate team of the year, the Miami Heat.

And then last but not least, our old friend Tate Frazier, employee number one of the Ringer, is returning to the Ringer with the One Shining Podcast pod, which is being reactivated. You can go re-follow that feed or do whatever you need to do because you're going to be getting college basketball podcasts and basketball podcasts from Tate. We're going to explain everything you need to know about that. Me, Tate, Kevin O'Connor, we're going to be talking about college basketball, Tate's return to the ringer. And then I'm going to be on Tate's podcast later

this week on One Shining Podcast as we go into our whole early days of the ringer and how Tate rose from Gretlin intern to my first producer when I was on my own to hosting multiple podcasts to leaving. And now in 2023, he's back and it feels great. And it's great to have him back. So great podcast today. Can't wait for you to listen to it. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right.

What a week for Ari Hawane, who is on this podcast today and Thursday. We're saving all of our Jon Jones UFC stuff for Thursday's pod. But since I had you, we were taping that part today. And then I was like, I got it. We got to talk Knicks. So we're going to do a little quick Knicks segment here. I watched John Schumann does this NBA Power Poll column that I really like on Mondays.

And he had the Knicks ranked seventh on Monday morning in the league. Wow. And then they went and they spanked my Celtics. And I don't, the Josh Hart thing, you know, Tibbs said it after the game. He's like, we have a bunch of like ball busters. We have some, you know, like we have a bunch of gamers now

and you can kind of feel it. It's a little swagger to this team now. You starting to get ideas? What's going on with you? Oh my God. I was texting my good friend, Aaron Cohn, who I think, you know, as well. He's a huge Knicks fan after the game last night. And we were like, is fourth place possible?

Like, is this, is this an actual thing? We get home court in the first round. I was just hoping for, you know, like a 10 seat going into the season. And at one point in December, I think they were 10 and 13. Let me tell you something. I'm 40 years old, Bill. So you're, you're two back in the lost column from the Cavs. So I would say fourth place is possible. I know, but you never know. It's the Knicks. They get us excited and then they break our hearts.

I have not bought a jersey in a very long time. There's a moment last night, Monday night, where I'm like, do I need a Josh Hart jersey? Is this my guy now? And he's got the three. He's got the Starks number he plays with tenacity I love the relationship that he has with uh with Jalen Brunson he's just a freaking grinder he fills up a bunch of holes I still get a little bit annoyed with Julius Randall towards the end of games I feel like he does a little too much iso he does these hero shots the the three-pointers kill me but if we have a healthy Mitch Robinson if we've got Jalen playing as he's playing if we've got Josh Hart

who should be starting in my opinion and who cares really as long as he finishes yeah he's a finisher for you doesn't matter Julius doing his thing RJ doing his thing like Emmanuel quickly doing his thing what's RJ's thing again do we does RJ have a thing don't be a hater don't be a hater

does he figured out his thing yet? He's Ron Harper. He's our Ron Harper. He's been reinvented as a Canadian defensive stopper. Perfect. Perfect. They're playing well. And by the way, can I get something from all the Tibbs haters out there?

Year one playoffs. Year two, you stumble. Year three, he flames out. How's he he flames out how's he doing now how's he doing now 36 and 27 you've won six straight I'm with you like I think they could

definitely catch the Cavaliers worst case scenario you're not falling below five and I don't want to be in that tournament but if it's Cavs-Knicks round one could you imagine

the Mitchell coming back the Cavs-Knicks, round one. Could you imagine? The Mitchell coming back. The Cavs have some size that's kind of a weird matchup, but I do feel like you have more, I don't know, a little more moxie. Right now. That Cavs team has had trouble finishing games. Really talented, but have kind of underachieved if you think of what their record should be, whereas the Knicks have probably overachieved a tiny bit. Although you blew a

lot of crunch time games earlier in the year. Now it seems like you fixed that. Well, it's a whole different team now. Like I said, we were 10 and 13 at one point in December. Tibbs shortened the rotation, started to finally play the young guys, giving them an opportunity, which he wasn't doing. The Josh Hart trade really changed. I think people saw that trade and saw what the Knicks did or didn't do at the deadline and thought it was a bit of a disappointment. I loved it. Oh, they don't watch basketball if they didn't. I mean, Josh Hart and Vanderbilt were the two guys sitting there at the trade deadline for like 10 contenders. I loved it. I loved it. Given who he is and given his relationship with Jalen Brunson,

I mean, it was just an amazing, amazing acquisition. Well, you know, did you see that video when Jalen Brunson found out baggage claim and like freaked out? And I was like, oh, I forgot these guys. I just, it never registered with me, but that was really smart. It was amazing. So yes, I'm very high on them. I will say earlier in the year, I was very down. I was still, look, there's a part of me that is still wondering, man, if we had Jalen Brunson and all these dudes and Donovan Mitchell, where would we be, right? Because I don't think anyone really thought Jalen would turn out.

This worked out better because now, here's the other thing. You're in Embiid pole position if that Philly thing goes nuts this spring, which is like the big secret thing that everybody's been talking about. It's like the underground story right now is what's going on with Harden. Why is everybody in the league seeming to think he's going to end up in Houston this summer? And if he does end up in Houston this summer, this is all like hearsay, rumor mill, like gossip stuff. But a lot of times when it's like there's this much smoke, I get suspicious.

Like the best example ever was LeBron going to the Lakers a year before he went to the Lakers. I even talked about it in my podcast. I was like, this is done. He's going to the Lakers. People thought I was crazy. There was a ton of smoke and there's a ton of smoke with this Harden Houston stuff.

And the Knicks are on pole position for Embiid if that happens. Now, whether you'd want him, whether you'd want to pay seven first-rounders and R.J. Barrett and Obi Toppin and whatever else you'd have to give up, I don't know. For a guy who knows with the Knicks injury legacy

with big guys. On the other hand, I like that you kept all your assets and you have some flexibility versus like, I don't know, is Mitchell winning you the title? Probably not. Does Brunson flourish like this without Mitchell? Probably not. First of all, Brunson's got

a chip on his shoulder right now the size of New York State because he should have been in the All-Star game. Who cares? He didn't need to be there. It was a sham of a game anyway. Can I play a rational Knicks fan for you for just one second? I don't want Joel Embiid. I've got Mitchell Robinson. That's our guy.

I don't need Joel Embiid. I've got our guy. You'd have to be in the trade. Mitchell Robinson. I know. I love Mitchell Robinson. I just wish he could stay healthy. He killed the Celtics last night. He was the best big man in the game. He's great. I'm not afraid of the Celtics. Bring on the Celtics. I am not afraid of anyone

in the East. I'm afraid of the Knicks. This is twice in a row where they've kind of handed it to the Celtics and each time it's like, oh, we were off or this happened or that happened. I'm at the point where I'm like, I would just like to see us now beat this team once. I'm officially like, they're on

my radar a little bit now. By the way, is it possible that we're better on the road than we are at home? I don't know. It's a crazy thought. You're starting to get the home crowds. The Knicks home crowd, the crowds are starting to show up in a real way again.

And that's been, we've talked about this before and other times you came on, the big loss of not having a competent Knicks franchise for literally two decades other than one or two seasons is just losing the crowd. There's like four great crowds left. The Knicks have one of them. You can, there's like a Brunson thing going on with the crowd now that's pretty special. And

then Josh Hart is like fucking central casting for the MSG crowd. It's like anything, everything they would want from a swing guy. He's like a rational confidence, 6'4", going in, getting rebounds. He just has that kind of look to him. I love everything about him. Even the three, like speaks to us, right?

The number three speaks to us. That's John Starks who played very much like that. Can I tell you, my favorite part of that game on Monday night, wasn't necessarily a player two, was when Tatum, Jason Tatum

got ejected and he was just like rubbing it in like get out of here. He was throwing barbecue sauce at him. I loved it. Not afraid, gets in everyone's grill, hits big shots, is willing to do everything and yeah, you're right. MSG is

always going to be full. They're always going to get great crowds but it's always going to be like tourists, people who don't care, who are coming through, you know, like someone who's just from Paris and wants to see a Knicks game. Like I want to see the true blue Knicks fans back in their defense, defense,

all that stuff. And we're getting it. And I remember talking to you after the season that we had 2020, 2021, and we were wondering, was that just an anomaly? And last season, it seemed like it was an anomaly.

And now it seems like it wasn't. And now they're even better because they have Brunson and Harden, all these guys. And Tibbs has clearly proven that he can get the young guys to play. Grimes has been great. McBride has had his moments. Toppin, I still like.

I know he's in the rumors quickly. They're just a nice, deep nine-player team. Toppin's a solid guy coming in for six minutes a half. Yeah, I look at the team, and pretty much every single guy you have is somebody I would at least trust to be competent in a playoff series. Yeah, and Derrick Rose doesn't even play anymore.

Right. You got nine. I like Hartenstein. I watched him at Quipper Games, and I think they figured out how to use him a tiny bit better. But in the first part of the season, they didn't really seem to understand what they had,

but now they do. But I look at, I mean, the big question for me as I really like stare at the Knicks from 25,000 feet is the Randall piece. Because when I'm rooting against the Knicks, whether if I bet against them or the Celtics are playing them, I want their offense to slow down

in the last four minutes and I want Randall to have the ball with like 10 seconds left in the shot clock and everyone's standing and him like doing Randall stuff. That's what I want. What I don't want is for Brunson to have the ball. I don't want the slash and kick stuff.

So anyway, Randall, the big question to me is if you get in the playoffs and now like Mitchell's hot on one end and like is he still have that mano a mano side

or is he going to understand like sometimes I'm not the best matchup because against Cleveland he's not going to be because Mobley is one of the best defensive forwards in the league. Like they'll welcome that.

It's like, oh, you want to be, but the matchup is Brunson in that series because you'd have Mitchell and Garland and neither of them are good on defense.

I trust Brunson explicitly. Like, I just, I just feel like he is that guy. He is that leader. He's the guy that we haven't had for 20 years

as we talked about. I still get worried. Like, Randall is the classic like, no, no, no, no, yes type of guy, right? Especially at the end.

Even last night when they're up like 12 or so he's chucking threes like man why are you doing this why do you feel the need to do this and that's what he did against the hawks in the playoffs two years ago and that's what he did towards the end of that he's that weird look on his face yes he just became i mean by the way at least you know we thought that remember last year when he was like telling the fans to like F off? Oh yeah, he seemed like a sunk cost. Done.

So it's a nice surprise that he's been able to regain their trust and have this season. But yes, when he gets into the hero ball stuff, it freaking, like last night I was yelling and they're up 13 with three minutes to go. My son even asked me like, why are you so mad at that guy? They're winning by 13. I'm like, because he does this all the time and it drives me nuts. Well, it looks like I think top five is pretty secure unless you have an injury because Brooklyn's going to go backwards. Right. That Miami Atlanta combo.

Neither of them, I don't think are going to make a run. So the goal for me would be how do we get the four seed? How do we get a game seven at home? And then the whole part of Mitchell coming back is just crazy. I am more scared of Cleveland than others because I really like Mobley. And I think if I had to bet on anybody in the last 25 games to kind of go up a notch, I guess we have 20 games left. But that young player who might be ready to have a moment, there's been signs with him.

He's been dropping breadcrumbs. And if he goes up a level, then that team becomes way scarier. But I don't know, man, you get a game seven at, at, at home against whoever,

probably Cleveland. That's a tough, it's gonna be a tough spot. Though. You look like you're going to, you need a cigarette. Yeah. I'm getting a smoking jacket.

I'm getting, I'm giddy. This is all I ever wanted. I just want a relevant team playing relevant basketball and porting games at MSG in April and May. That's all I want. That's all every Knick fan wants.

We don't need a championship this year. We just want to be respected, relevant, not the laughingstock with a future. And we have that right now. And who knows what happens. You have one other thing.

You're now a destination again. I think that's the one thing those guys, Wes and Leon came in and their main goal was like, how do we turn this place into a city and a franchise where you'd at least want to have the meeting with us? Because they had even lost that in the 2010s, right? Yeah. So now I think they've regained that.

Getting Brunson, I think, was a big deal. And if you're Brunson, that just couldn't have worked out better. You'd be Lucas Caddy on Dallas, right? And instead you go to New York. You're like the guy. There are people wearing Brunson jerseys at the stands now.

Like, you know, your buddies from Villanova gets to come and join you. And it's just like, you can't ask for a better spot for him. Again, if I could be a rational Knicks fan, you know what? We don't need the fourth seed. I'll take the five. We were the fourth seed in 2020.

It didn't work out well against the Hawks. Let's go on the road and let's be the true underdogs. Because I think being the fourth seed and having home court in 2020 or 2021 brought along a lot of pressure on them. It was like, oh, you guys got home court, you got to beat the Hawks. And they faltered clearly. It was a flimsy Knicks team too. All of a sudden

Rose had to play like 40 minutes. I like the Rose stories about how they were like, we don't want to buy him out. He's too important to our chemistry and all this stuff behind the scenes. There's a lot of good vibes with this team. You can see with the bench too. I haven't seen them in person this year, but that's going to be one of the things that I know I'm going to love about

that team. It really just seems like they all like each other. So look, who would have thought the Knicks might make it as many rounds as the Buffalo Bills in 2000? Wow. Why do you have to say? You were too happy.

I had to throw one. Wow. Shout out Leslie Frazier. I'm not too mad about it. I know you didn't ask. Leslie, take your time. I'm not too mad about it. I know you didn't ask. It's time to move on. Leslie, take your time. Yeah, take your time, Leslie.

By the way, great PR spin on that one. 2027 looks great. Yeah, yeah. Thanks for your services. That was a classic wish you the best in your future endeavors tweet from WWE. That was like, okay, cool.

You're taking the year off. We'll see you down the line. Thanks, Leslie. All right. So you're coming back on Thursday and we'll talk UFC. But we had to do this little next thing. Good to see you as always. Go Knicks, baby.

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See the full terms. See all the terms at Fandle.com slash sportsbook. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this.

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is the light beer with all the great beer tastes we like. 90 calories per 355 mil can. So why not grab some Miller Lites today? Your game time tastes like Miller time. Must be legal drinking age. All right, my friend Mike Scherer is here. You know in the horror movies when there's the one guy in the horror movie who keeps pointing out to everybody else that something bad's gonna happen

and nobody believes him and he almost starts to seem annoying after a little while, but then it turns out he was right and somebody's coming out of the basement. You've been that way with the Miami Heat on our Celtics text thread all year. You've been very focused on it.

All these dumb garbage losses. The Heat were like 10 and 12. They were 13 and 14. They were never a threat to anyone but you. And now they're still lingering. And we're going to go into how weird their season has been. We're talking about sports hate right now. We don't actually hate these people,

but we sports hate certain teams, the Yankees, the Lakers. I sports hate the Heat. I just want them to go away and I know they won't. This is the problem with the Heat is they don't go away. They are the equivalent of the Steelers, I would say. In the NFL, the Steelers start out like 3-7.

You're like, this is the year that they fall apart. At the end of the year, somehow, they're like whatever, 9-8. They still don't have a losing season. They're in the mix going into the last weekend. They might make the playoffs. If they do, they're dangerous. Nobody wants to

play them in the playoffs. That's the Miami Heat. I've been yelling and screaming about this. This is an invasion of the body snatchers and I have been saying the whole year like, don't let these guys linger. And the problem has been, one of the problems has been these teams that play them, they rest all their guys. They're like, we don't care.

They're a middling team. So like they rest the Nuggets rest Jokic and the Bucks rest Giannis and then the Heat squeak out these two three-point wins and you look up and suddenly we are, I said this in our thread the other night, we are careening, careening

toward a 2-7 first round matchup Celtics-Heat and I am going to be terrified because there is no question that the heat will zombie come back. And like the game, game three, it'll be one,

one and game three in Miami. The heat will be up 93 to 91 with two and a half minutes left in the fourth quarter. And we will be watching our entire season go down the drain. That is my fear. Yeah. They lose game two, like 100 to 64 and it's like the worst shooting performance in playoff history.

And then the next game they're down 10 in the fourth quarter. And all of a sudden it's a 50 no run. And Bam makes the three straight shots with one second left on the shot clock falling away from 24 feet, followed by Butler careening into three guys and one. All of a sudden, you're losing. You don't know what happened. John Mazzola hasn't called a timeout.

And you're like, what just happened? We were just up 10, five seconds ago. That's the heat. Yeah, you're up 10. You're up 10. And then Butler gets fouled and goes to the line. And he hits both free throws. And you're like, whatever.

And then the next time down, he gets fouled again. And he goes to the line and he hits both free throws and you're like whatever and then the next time down he gets fouled again and he goes to the line and he hits both free throws and then Marcus Smart takes a three an ill-advised three and the rebound goes long and suddenly Maxters hits a three in transition and the 10-point lead is totally gone and the crowd is losing its mind and Jimmy Butler on the game is three for five from the field with 41 points because he's hit so many free throws. And that to me, it's not just that they win these games. It's how they win them is so irritating. It's just so endlessly irritating. Let me I did this research.

I did some research for you, Bill. Listen to this. Oh, OK. The reason I didn't realize you're bringing research to the podcast. I did research. Miami Heat this year Oh, okay. The research. I didn't realize you were bringing research to the podcast. I did research. Miami Heat this year are 29th in field goal percentage. They're last in the league in points. They're last

obviously in field goals made. They're 28th in three-point percentage. They're 26th in rebounds and 23rd in assists. You look at those numbers on paper and you're like, well, that's a lottery team. That's the Orlando match. You left out their negative point differential. They're minus 0.5 point differential.

Yes. However, what are they good at, you ask? They are tied for second in free throw percentage. They are third in steals. They are fifth in the fewest turnovers. They win games by turning the ball over off of other teams, not turning the ball over themselves and hitting free throws. That is the most annoying way that you can be a playoff team in the NBA by far. I did some research as well. And there's even some worse stats than what you

just listed. First of all, they're 33 and 29 and they're 22 and 37 against the spread with three pushes. So that doesn't tell you. They have 11 more wins than covers, which is basically impossible. Their expected win loss is 30 and 32. 43 of their 62 games so far this year have been close in the last five minutes. And they're 24 and 19 in those games. And then they have all these great stats on NBA.com.

And you can look at the per 100 numbers in the, just in the last five minutes and the heat, as you mentioned, um, you know, bat, bat offense, their 27th and offensive rating fourth and defensive rating for the entire

game. You get to the last five minutes, all of a sudden they have a one 10 offensive rating and a 100 defensive rating per 100 possessions. God damn it. They turned into the 2004 Pistons out of nowhere. They had an 11 game streak just earlier this month of just every game they played was close

for 11 straight games. Think how long that is. That's like three straight weeks of just them. Every game comes down the wire. And if you go back and you look at all the recaps, it's like Heat rally again. Heat come back again. It's like they're fucking Michael Myers.

I hate their guts. It is 100% Michael Myers. It is every game in the last minute. The other, let me, if I may, can I make a public service announcement to the NBA teams that are listening to this? Here's a public service announcement. At some point in your game against Miami Heat,

one of you will be dribbling into the lane, probably coming off a screen, and you will see one of your teammates flashing from the corner to the low post, and you will be tempted to attempt a pass to that player. You will not complete. That pass will not be completed. Yeah.

That pass will be tipped by Gabe Vincent or by Jimmy Butler or by Bam out of bio and the heat will be running the other way. Do that worked in college and against a zone like the one that he run? It may have worked in high school. It will not work against the heat. I am so sick of watching these teams. So few NBA teams play the degree of zone defense that the Heat do, that I think sometimes it takes teams a full quarter to remember that they're in a zone.

And once they are, once they remember, it was like, okay, we know how to do this. Somebody flashes to the high post. We rotate here, we rotate there. They eventually figure it out and then the Heat adjust too. But for that quarter, the team that is playing the heat loses its mind. And they're like, oh, I know how to do it. I'm just going to dump it. This guy's coming in from the corner. I'll dump it. That ball is

intercepted. Every one of those passes is intercepted. And that is why their, whatever it is, top three in turnovers and steals is because teams just forget how to play zone, how to play against his own. And, and because of that, they win 94, 93 because the other teams that game the other night against the Sixers. Did you watch that game?

I, I, that was so infuriating. It was like, and the Sixers had a shot to win and Harden had that three to win it. But like, they just utterly fell apart. Like Embiid didn't look like Embiid.

And Harden didn't even look like Harden. And none of their, like, Tobias Harris played 35 minutes and scored two points. When's the last time Tobias Harris scored two points in 35 minutes in any game in his entire life? It's got to be when he was in third grade. The last time he was held to two points. Butler had a play when he drove through two guys, jumped in the air, and did a reverse layup

where he basically just threw the ball up in the air. And it went up like 25 feet in the air and somehow banked in. And the announcer didn't know what to do. He's like,

I don't even know how to describe what just happened. So you mentioned they're last in the league in points per game. They have, this was in John Schumann's Monday column. They're the only team in the last 10 years that's seen a bigger season to season drop off in three point percentage. They were, they led the league in three point percentage last year. And this year they're, uh, they've dropped all the way down. They're 33% 28th in 28th in the league the only other team that's had a drop off like that

season to season was the Warriors after they made the finals when Clay got hurt, Durant laughed and Curry played five games that's the only other time this has happened that's amazing they have Lowry, Struess, Oladipo, Vincent new addition Kevin Love

and Duncan Robinson are all under 40% for field goal percentage. So six out of every 10 shots at least that basically two thirds of their rotation takes is going to miss. And yet for some reason they hang around. So I went, I looked through it because I was like, maybe there's less games than we thought.

Right? Just going back to the start of the year remember they beat the Kings Harrow hit the three with two seconds left they beat the

Charlotte and OT they beat Phoenix by one where they came back from 14th and the fourth and Phoenix missed three game winners to so Miami could win

they beat the Celtics in OT 120 to 116 when Butler hit like seven crazy shots they beat OKC by two Harrow hit hit like seven crazy shots. They beat OKC by two. Harrow hit a game winner with five seconds left, and OKC somehow missed two

game winners in the last five seconds. They beat Houston by three. Porter missed a game-tying three. They beat Minnesota by three. Minnesota never got off a shot. They beat Utah. Harrow, another game-winning three. That's the other thing. He's like Larry Bird at the end of these games. They beat OKC by one where game winning three. That's the other thing. He's like Larry Bird at the end of these games.

They beat OKC by one where Butler gets a three-point play. OKC doesn't get a shot off. And that's the game you mentioned. Miami goes 40 for 40 from the line. And that was the game when I was playing like Mike's right. Mike's like, you don't understand. They went 40, 40 out of 40 for the free throw. All right, Mike's out of something.

New Orleans, they come back from 15 and win. Boston, we're beating them by 10. All of a sudden, they go on a 15-0 run and then Tatum throws the ball away on that zone pass you talk about to lose. Butler gets a dunk

to beat Houston with 0.3 seconds left by two. That was the worst one of all of them. That was the worst one of all of them. Yeah, that actually, Houston might have tanked that one too. They might have. And there are 0.3 seconds left on an inbounds pass. That was the worst one of all of them. Houston had a tank that one too. They might have. There are 0.3 seconds left on an

inbounds pass. There is only one play they can run. That play is a lob. And the idea that you don't just put in your five tallest guys and guard against the lob is insane because no other shot is possible. And they just let Butler come around a double screen. Especially him.

You know it's going to him. Yes. Yes, it's him or Bam, that's it. So that to me was, I could not believe. They should have lost to Houston. They should be losing so many of these games to so many terrible teams and they're eking them out

and then you look up and they're the seventh seed. It's infuriating. Two more. They beat the Magic in OT. Paolo missed a game-winning drive in regulation. Now, if you watch him last night, he was a stone-cold killer. And then last night, the Philly game,

where they win at the end and Philly completely falls apart. That's one of the things this Miami team does is they ratchet up something in the last four minutes and the other team's just completely discombobulated, but you don't even really understand what's happening. It's like James Harden yesterday. It just misses a six-footer on the baseline.

It's a six-footer. You've made 10 million of these, but they Jedi mind trick these teams. I know. The reason Mike and I care is because we know they're looming 2-7, and I don't think either of us or any of the other Celtic fans we know have fully recovered from last year. Making the finals, but yet feeling kind of like you lost because it was almost such a disaster.

Feeling like he got away with something because Jimmy front ironed that three. And there is a dream scenario that is in front of us. The dream scenario is the Celtics get through whatever malaise this is and the bucks cool off because they won 14 in a row and the celtics end up with the one seat in the box of the two seat and then it's two seven milwaukee miami and miami jedi mind tricks the bucks and knocks them out because the bucks are the best team in the east i would say at least right now they are they're the best there they are. There's a weird chance that Miami knocks

off the Bucs that they do to Giannis what they did to Embiid last night and just kind of strangle him, just drag him down into the muck and the sludge that they play in and slog out a six-game or seven-game victory. But I really

think, Levitard the other day, asked me who were the five scariest teams in the East of the Celtics. I had the heat at one. I had the Bucks at two and the heat at one. Because I it's not I'm telling you, man, don't don't bail on me now. I'm telling you, they in the playoffs are the like, you know what the Bucks are. The Bucks are excellence, relentless excellence. Drew Holiday and Giannis and Brooke Lopez.

And you know that all the threes that are coming at you and they have all those other guys, Connaughton and all those guys who can shoot. But you know what they are. You can match up with them. They don't have what the Heat has, which is the dark arts. And I'm telling you, I do not want Miami in the playoffs. I think they're the scariest team, not because they're the best team. They're the worst offensive team

in the conference, but to me, they're the scariest team to see in the playoffs. They're like, who's that lady in Game of Thrones? The witchcraft lady? No, the red witch. The lady in red, or the red witch, whatever that lady was. I still have

Milwaukee won. And to me, it's Knicks-Heat tied for two. We talked about the Knicks in the last segment. Something about the Knicks just have an incredible amount of confidence against the Celtics. I don't really understand it. We've seen it now multiple times. The matchup's a little weird. They got small guards.

They're just kind of unorthodox. Tibbs is doing a whole bunch of weird stuff on defense. And the Celtics just don't look comfortable against them. Yeah, you never know what five guys you're playing. The other day against the Celtics, it was quickly just like, had like 19 points. And it was like the game before that I didn't even play. And there's something about,

you and I have also talked about the Clippers and how the Clippers match up against the Celtics where it's just hundreds of wings just flying in one after another just getting it there it's a little different now after the trade deadline but like they just had so many guys who were just rangy scorers and it was like you never knew it was like a eight-headed like a Medusa that you just never knew where it was coming from the Knicks feel that way to be too I had the Knicks as one of the five toughest matchups for the Celtics and Levitard laughed at me, but I was like,

no, they're scary to me. They're weird, sneaky, good team with a lot of guys who just seem like they know what they're doing. And Amin Alhassan was saying the other night like, Josh Hart makes them a little better in terms of the acumen, the defensive acumen.

That was an upgrade for them. Brunson is a legit guy can score at any time kind of a guy. They're way scarier now than they were at the beginning. It's like a chip on the shoulder with that team too. You know what's really annoying about this Miami thing? We should be rid of them. They should be gone. Because I was looking back at all their moves. There's this website where you can look at every team's transactions basically for their

entire franchise history, which is pretty alarming if you're a Sacramento Kings fan. But since they made the bubble finals, here are all their moves. They paid Myers Leonard two for 20. That worked out about as badly as it can go. Avery Bradley one for six.

He was done. They traded Kelly Olenek. Who's kind of turned into a semi asset. I think Bradley and a 2022 pick swap for Victor Oladipo. Who's either been hurt or can't make a shot ever since they got him. They gave Duncan Robinson five for 90. One of the top five worst contracts in the league now. 2021 summer, they signed Dedman, Struis, Vincent, Marquise Morris.

They traded Dragic and Precious for Kyle Lowry and paid Kyle Lowry three years, 85 million, which is a top 10 worst contract. They paid PJ Tucker for a year, but let him leave. They paid Caleb Barton three for 20.5. They paid old Depot two for 18 and a half. Now they just took a chance on Kevin Love, Cody Zeller. This is not like ringmaster Pat Riley, you know,

pulling all the strings and oh, he did it again. It's like, this is incompetence for three years and they're still good. These are bad moves. Yeah, they're bad moves. And yeah, when you're paying Kyle Lowry 28 and you're paying Duncan Robinson 25, again, you're a lottery team.

That's what's so infuriating is like they should be, it should be like, oh God, this was a total disaster. They're eight games under 500. They're clinging to the 10 spot. Yeah, it's sad. It's like, oh man,

it'd be sad if they didn't make the playoffs. I'd feel bad for Jimmy Butler. They should be at that spot. Yeah, it's sad. It's like, oh man, it'd be sad if they didn't make the playoffs. I'd feel bad for Jimmy Butler. They should be at that stage. Yeah, and Jimmy Butler's, he's forcing his way out. Bam is talking about wanting to go play with the Kings. Right, with De'Aaron Fox and Monk. Because he wants to be part of a winning franchise. Yeah, that's, again, it's like they they on paper, they are a lottery team. And yet they're not only not a lottery team, they're going to be in the six, seven spot for the rest of the seasonks, they only have one game, one game up on the Hawks who just hired a new coach and have been a mess all

year. But if they can, if the Hawks can somehow pass Miami, we don't have to worry about this team. I hope we reverse jinx them with this entire segment. Um, before you go though, we have to talk,

um, a little Red Sox and a little, a little bloom, right? Who you just think you can't, a little Red Sox and a little Bloom. Right. Who you just think it can't get worse since the Mookie trade. And then there's this story about this guy who fell to the fourth round, a potential ace pitcher, but he was in Navy, so they're kind of stashing him.

If he wasn't going to Navy, he would have been a first-round pick. He's just kind of lingering over there. I got to admit, I hadn't really thought about him. And then the Phillies swipe him. He's a Rule 5 guy. They swipe him. And then it becomes, whoa, the Phillies think they might have gotten an ace. And it's like, wait, this guy's going to pitch?

Yeah, he's going to have the Navy pretty soon. It's like, what? We could have kept him on our 40-man roster. Have you seen the 40-man roster? And it's just ever since the 2018 World Series, our owner's getting booed. All of our good players are gone except Raphael Devers. Nobody feels bad for us. People get mad when we complain.

And it's just the worst place to be. Nobody wants to hear us bitch. The team's going to suck. The over-under is 77 in Vegas. The two of the most expensive players in the team. We have no idea if we're going to see them even in the first half of the year, maybe all year.

Have you ever looked forward to a Red Sox season less since like the early 80s? I don't think I have. I mean, even in the dark years in the mid-teens here, you had like Mookie came up and it was like, well, we know we have that to look forward to. We had Bogarts.

I blame myself for this. Yeah, and Bogarts. I blame myself for this in part because after 2018, I was largely in favor of everything the team did, including signing Chris Sale. That was a big L for you. And he's now... Yeah, I took a huge L on that.

And I thought like... I don't know. I was blinded by him striking out Machado to end the World Series and was like, this is our guy. Cut it through it. Like, I want him around forever. And he's now in four years,

he will have pitched what? Like 30 total games or something. And he's made out of very fine porcelain that is cracking every seam. And that has like set the tone, like all of the, they re-signed Steve Pierce after that World Series. Like they made so many mistakes

starting right after Duquette in the last, Duquette, in the last administration, they made a ton of mistakes right away and they've continued to make them. And now there's basically, what are the reasons to like the team? It's basically Casas is exciting to like have a legit first baseman is like interesting. That's a mildly interesting development. There's some interest in whether like Quique Hernandez can recover and Verdugo can recover.

Verdugo got off to a terrible start in those, a very unlucky start in those first two, three months last year, and then heated up and played like the guy they thought they were getting when they traded Mookie Betts for him. So there's some like bounce back potential, but like, if they're 500, it's like a win. And so just going into those years where that's the case, it's just such a bummer. It's such a bummer to know that you're not going to be competitive before the season even starts.

Yeah, it's a weird thing to commit to because you don't also want to leave the back door open for all of a sudden they're 12-5 with the team that nobody believed in. And you're like, but yeah, there's not a lot to look forward to. Right, the 2013 thing, yeah, I, I, but yeah, there's not a lot to look forward to. And right. The 2013. I also, I gotta say like the, the, the dark Red Sox DNA is,

has kind of surfaced for me when you think like the last title was 2018, the Mookie Betts trade, which was just reprehensible as it was happening. And now it's like a hundred times worse. And it just seems like it's set off, you know, now we're going to be in year five here of, of this not looking great. And I just wonder like, is, is, should we, I I'm already retroactively going, should I have enjoyed the 04 to 18 run more? Like I'm mad at myself. Like, why didn't I treasure this? Why did I think this was going to continue? Why didn't I understand that this could be pulled from me at any time? Because that's not how

I feel. Do you think you didn't treasure it? I just felt like it was going to keep going. I don't feel like I left anything on the table. Here we are. We finally have owners that are spending money. We fixed the park. This is us. It's not us.

Well, I think you got to look at it like this. I mean, first of all, it's hilarious that as two lifelong Red Sox fans, you're like, we haven't won since 2018. Thank you. It's an amazing thing you just said. But also, you got to remember, like, 2004, like, 5, 6, 7 were all good years.

They made the playoffs. They lost the first round in 2005. They were pretty good in 06. all good years. They made the playoffs. They lost the first round in 2005. They were pretty good in 06. I don't think they made the playoffs. That was a fun year. That was the year Ortiz had 54 home runs or whatever. Fun year. 7 they win. 8 could have won. Between then and 2013, they absolutely could have.

Tampa Bay ate their lunch. But then there was the miserable year in 2011 where they blew the enormous, it was the fried chicken and beer and video games or whatever. That was very bad. Then they were terrible in 2012. They come out of nowhere to win in 2013.

And then they go into the doldrums again. It hasn't been, we have not been the recent last decade Dodgers or the Cardinals who were just like always running their it's it's been an up and down thing and like 2018 2013 they were absolute they went from last to first in 28 in 2013 and then went to last again like it has been a an up and down thing and so i don't like the roller coaster is fine with me like there's they've had so much winning

it's hard to complain about it. What I'm worried about is I always felt in those years that there was a stewardship that made sense to me. I understood what they were doing. I understood the moves they were making and I got why they were doing what they're doing. Starting with Mookie getting traded and continuing through a bunch of the signings

and then the Xander thing, this has led me to a feeling, a very shaky feeling that we haven't had in a long time, which is, I don't know if they have a plan. Like, I don't, and they keep saying they do. They say they believe in Bloom and they say that they, you know, that they have this strategy or whatever.

And maybe they do, but like, it's the first time in this crazy run of success where it has genuinely felt to me like, oh no, they might not have a grip on this. And that's what's unsettling to me. I can take the losing. Those seasons between World Series wins, those seasons where they sucked,

were fine. They rolled off my back. But the weird mediocrity and the letting go of these huge stars, these guys who should have retired in the uniform, that's the part where I'm like, ooh, boy. I think what you saw from the deals

that the Braves have been signing with their young stars, the deals the Padres have been signing, the Mets have been signing, I think, yeah, it's hard not to conclude that in the last two three four years they have dramatically underestimated the market for these guys and that they were they were just playing a sort of old playbook of like we're not I mean that rumor that they gave they offered Xander a four-year extension for like 90 million dollars and then and he was like, go bleep yourselves. Then the next year, all those guys got 250, 300, 350, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 years.

I think they were a step behind what a bunch of other GMs and teams at their level knew what was happening. They then had to scramble and play catch up just to sign Devers. After Mookie and Xander were already gone, they had to desperately cling to one guy just to keep him in the fold. And you look at the Padres, the Padres have stacked their roster

with 10-year contracts going out to 2033. They have three stars under contract in the year 2033 for a total of $100 million. And you know they're going to go after Soto, and they might go after Otani. And all these other teams just lapped them in terms of locking up stars to long-term contracts. Now, if Tatis doesn't come back, maybe they look stupid, but you can't say that they don't have a plan, that they don't see a horizon or they're not aiming at anything. It feels to me like the Red Sox have been at sea and don't have a North Star by which they're navigating with their roster. That's the scary thing. All those relievers they rolled out last year, all those terrible, mediocre relievers. How about throwing away first base? Remember when we just threw away the first base position

for an entire season? Yeah. Yes, and they've had guys like they had Renfro and Wright who wasn't amazing but hit 28 home runs or whatever. They had Schwarber on their team in the playoffs.

They could have re-signed Schwarber. Schwarber hits 213 you know, like, and, you know, Schwarber hits 213 or whatever for the Phillies, but he also hits 40 home runs and he got better at first as the year went on. Like, he's an athlete. He knows what he's doing.

They just kept, they kept saying no and they never said yes. Like, they kept letting guys go or saying, no, we're not going to re-up you. But it was unclear who they were saying yes to. They didn't seem to have guys.

with Trevor Story with a bad elbow. Yeah. You get a discount on because he has a bad elbow. With a bad elbow that everyone knows. Right. I think the no plan thing. Yeah. That's the scary thing to me.

The no plan rudderlessness is the difference. And it reminds me of some of the teams I rooted for growing up. Right. Like, like a lot of Patriots teams were like, wow, the Patriots are a fucking mess. They're trading out of the Jerry Rice pick and just doing all kinds of stuff. And then the Celtics in the early 2000s,

very similar. Like I remember when they traded Joe Johnson and a number one pick for Tony Delkin, Rodney Rogers. It's like, we're going for it. It's like, but why'd you throw in the number one pick for Tony Delkin, Rodney Rogers. It's like, we're going for it. It's like, but why'd you throw in the number one pick? I don't understand that part. Joe Johnson was the 10th pick of the draft. Why did we also have to give up? So it was just, were you just watching from afar going, am I smarter than the guys running my favorite team? You never want to feel like you're smarter than the people who actually get paid to do this. Like Hensho says, the guy who runs the Red Sox

stats Twitter account, which we all think is like a great Twitter account. We were like, if that guy was running the team, I'd actually feel better. He's putting real thought. He's looking at color-coded pitch counts. I'm like, at least that guy's putting the work in. I'd give him a chance.

Yeah, and he's also like really on it that guy's putting the work in. I'd give him a chance. Yeah. And he's also like really on it when it comes to like the guys in the minors who are, who are interesting. Like, he's always like, look at this guy. Like,

look at these last eight innings that he's thrown. Like this is, you know, 18 strikeouts in one walk. Like this guy in low way is making some moves. Yeah, I agree. And it has to be the case that the Red Sox

research department is doing the same work. I just, it's very hot right now. It's very foggy. It's very hazy. It's very hard to understand what it is that they're after.

Well, are you ready for, so yeah, are you ready for plastic surgery baseball? What? Baseball went in. They got a little

liposuction. I am ready. I'm psyched for it. They got their, they got a little facelift. They did. They lifted the forehead. They got a little liposuction. I am ready. I'm psyched for it. They got their little facelift. They did. They lifted the forehead. They got the...

Are you excited for it? I am. I'm legitimately excited for it. They did two things that I've been waiting forever for them to do. One was endless pick-offs

can no longer happen. I always thought the pick-off... I just... You just could have given me like a line where that nobody could take a lead past the line and I would have been good. No, the pickoff is the worst play in sports. So I was glad

they got rid of that. And then the pitch count thing we've been waiting for, right? How many times can we watch somebody scratch their balls? So we'll see if it works. I know it's going to be clumsy. It'll be clumsy for the first month. Somebody will lose a game because of the pitch count thing and everyone will go nuts. But once they a game because of the pitch count thing and everyone will go nuts. But once they get the rhythm of it, I think it's going to work. And then the games

are going to be shorter. They'll be more fun to watch. And I'll probably watch more baseball. Like, don't you feel the same? A hundred percent. They're cutting out a half hour of time

where nothing happens in the game. That's the thing. We're not losing an inning. We're not losing the fourth inning. We're losing dead time. And I don't know if you saw this, but the Twitter handle Pitching Ninja

put up a side-by-side thing, which was Landon Knack of the Dodgers throwing a complete one-third of an inning, getting three outs. And it was put side-by-side with a video of Pedro Baez throwing a single pitch to David Ross in the 2016 playoffs.

And the time it took Pedro Baez to throw one pitch, an entire third of an inning went by. And that is, there is no, I think people are dramatically underestimating from a fan standpoint how much more, it's going to feel like an NBA.

Great. It's going to be like, it's going to, there's a shot clock now it's going to, and it's, the games are going to feel like you have to pay attention. There is no, like we are,

this is a moving train there. That guy put up another video, by the way, uh, from, I think 2019 where the entire 2019 Kentucky Derby was overlaid between two pitches that Zach Greinke threw to Ozzie Albies in a game. Literally, it was between the time that the pitches came in because he stepped off. They had a catcher meeting. The guy Ozzie Albies stepped out,

whatever. They ran the entire 2019 Kentucky Derby in the time between two different pitches that Greinke threw. So it is going to feel like a new sport in a really good way. I think the bigger bases are great because I think more people are going to try to steal, which is exciting. I think there's a lot of stuff that is going to make the game feel like,

oh, I can watch this now. And the biggest thing, I said this to Joe Posnanski on our podcast the other day, if you're major league baseball, one of your biggest problems is a large number of your marquee players play in the West it's all of the Padres guys

Shohei Otani Mookie Betts nobody watches those guys because they come on at 10pm on the East Coast now if the games are faster if Otani's pitching and that game's on ESPN

you might say hey I need to be in bed at 11 but I can watch 5 innings I can watch Otani pitch for 5 in, but I can watch five innings. I can watch Otani pitch for five innings, and I can watch him hit at least twice in an hour. And so they're much more likely now, I think, to watch those games, those West Coast games on the East Coast.

Again, that's great. So this is all, I think this is long overdue, and I'm very excited to see how it plays out. I am excited because we had reached the point of no return. Or it's actually getting worse. We were all complaining about it, but it was getting longer and worse and dumber. And even the basics.

Did they bring back the bullpen car though? I always felt like the bullpen car could have saved us like two minutes. Remember when we were kids, the Red Sox had that awesome helmet car. That was like the highlight of every game when the helmet car came out. It's the best. Yeah, it was the best. But they do have a clock on the... There's a clock on the change itself,

the pitching change itself. So those guys run in now. They're all like... Oh, wow. When the gates open, they charge in from the bullpen because... Or at least they jog because there's whatever,

two minutes and 15 seconds between the time that the call is made and the first pitch. So like they can walk. They just won't get able to warm up. I'm so glad they did it. So yeah, it's getting better. And I trust Theo.

I am too. I am too. I trust Theo. What do you got? You want to plug anything before we go? I want to plug whoever's playing the heat this week

I'm a big fan of yours and I wish you luck and I hope you win alright Mike Schur good to see you this episode is brought to you

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Redefine possible with Business Platinum. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms and conditions apply. Visit amex.ca slash business platinum. All right, we're taping this on a Monday. It's running Tuesday. Kevin O'Connor is here from The Ringer. Tate Frazier, employee number one. Yeah, honestly. First one.

In my driveway, we met. You left a couple years ago. Now you're back. You're going to be, what do we call it? Rejuvenating the old One Shining Pod feed? Yeah, that sounds like a good word for it. Yeah, I mean, you know, saddling back up, talking about college basketball in the Ringer universe,

something I, you know, started a long time ago with Mallory Rubin back in the day. Oh, my God. Remember the pivot? The pivot. Long time ago. Back then, I couldn't even form words, barely. But you said, hey, let's see what happens with this kid.

You gave me a shot, and now I'm back. I'm excited. Now you're back doing that. We're going to be doing a Fandle TV thing as well. KSC was, I think, in the running for most excited. Kyle was the most excited. Kyle was definitely

most excited. Because he had the tattoo. Yeah, Kyle, you know, when he did that, I, you know, in my heart of hearts, I was like,

I hope that this works out well for Kyle. You know, that was 2018, I think, you know, five years ago when that happened. Listen,

you're not the first person who said i hope this works out for kyle this is a recurring refrain in the in the simmons creighton family it worked out great because you know now i have a reason to come back to do osp you know we we tinkered with some names some ideas but at the end of the day it comes back to kyle's arm you know and that's why i'm going to work hard because i want kyle's arm to make sense you know because for the past few years, it made no sense. It's a nice looking tattoo. Yeah, it looks good.

It looks good. Kyle's arm would have been a good subtitle for the podcast, maybe. Right, right. Maybe we'll do a segment, Kyle's arm. Kyle's arm. Listen, Kyle's all about doing little running segments about how weird his life is. He's very excited. We're very excited.

It's good to have you back. And we're getting you right in the heart of this absolutely bizarre college basketball season where you would have just thought Houston being kind of the number one team all year, that's weird enough, right? Like I grew up with Phi Slamma Jamma a hundred million years ago, but just Houston being kind of the non-blue bud party crasher.

So, and then we have this Alabama stuff, which even for college sports, pretty horrible. Yeah, as someone that has covered college sports for quite some time, you know, the NIL came in, right? And then everyone said, look, our conscience, it's clean. We don't have to worry about all the bad stuff. Things are getting better in college basketball. And every single year, it seems like we try to kick the can.

We say things are getting better. It's not as bad as it was, guys. You can feel better in college basketball. And every single year, it seems like we try to kick the can. We say things are getting better. It's not as bad as it was. Guys, you can feel better about watching it. But then there's always a story that comes out. And, you know, unfortunately, Alabama is the second story this year of something that is so heinous. You know, New Mexico State, you know, not a top team, but that was a whole nother bag of worms that we didn't want to dive into. So college basketball consistently, no matter who is in charge, no matter who's playing, it just seems like there's some sort of story that we have to talk about. That's not fun. You know what I mean? So that's the bad part about college basketball, but I call it the bag part,

the BAG part. So it's a, it's a lot of bag involved and that's what we deal with. It's amazing how much this has been botched by Alabama. Oh man. I thought their athletic director, he went on College Game Day podcast. I feel like he handled it the best, talking like 20, 30 minutes to open their show about a lot of the details that haven't been leaked,

that aren't on social media, about the text messages that Brandon Miller received prior to the one that did leak about bringing a gun. It's just that all of it has been totally mismanaged from the coaching, the Alabama, to the pat-down before their last game i mean the pat down was rough because it was like how can this be handled worse and then you have the walk-on and the walk-on got blamed i mean they were like it's the walk-on's fault it's uh he's the one that did this he was an independent operator that's what they said so he's the one that's taking the fall for it i think the crazy

part to me and you know koc and i were texting about this is that Nate Oates is obviously got a great PR team prior to the past couple of months. You know, people were talking about how great of a coach he was. People were looking at his buyout. Should he go to Texas? Should he go here? Should North Carolina, you should have hired, you know, Nate Oates. These are the things that were being discussed. And I think what we learned in this situation is that Nate Oates is nothing more than Mark Gottfried 2.0. He is just the godfather. He just happens to have a better PR team and he might be a better basketball coach, but he still is wading in those same waters. And as an Alabama, if you're an Alabama fan and you watch this team, you can't help but like the talent. But then there's just that

murkiness that's in the background and now we're dealing with statements and you know timelines and things like that and i just want to talk about basketball so that's the unfortunate part about alabama and all he wants to do is draw out plays that's what he said about he didn't know they did the path down thing in the intros he's like i'm drawing up plays at the time right there's just too there's too much of a side show at this point now too many distractions i don't it. You would have thought when Coach K left that we'd finally be safe. Yeah.

Now that the arch-villain of all time is gone. I'm just doing this for Tate. Yeah, this is actually amazing. Just trying to get the impression out of him. Tate and I are going to watch, what's it called? Chasing Greatness? Chasing Greatness.

LeBron James, Coach K, a 30-minute sit-down interview, head-to-head, eye-to-eye, talking about how much they love each other. We're going to watch this while we're getting fire hosed. How can we torture ourselves as we watch that? I don't know. I can't think of a worse way to spend a half hour. I just know I'll be screaming, this is my nightmare,

as it turns to the second commercial break, yeah. I did find myself liking him one or two times during the redeem team doc. And then like instantly hating myself because he had that one speech. He was dropping a couple of F-bombs. He seemed like relatively human for the most part. Right. Right. And I, and, and I was kind of getting roped in and I was like, is this how it happens?

These guys get sucked into his world. The funniest thing to me with Kay is that, you know, obviously, you know, oh, for Larry Brown, that they forced those guys, the young guys to play with them. You know, Larry Brown's like, I don't want any of these guys on the team. They all come, they're arguing about playing time. And then coach K comes in and coach K says, you know what? I'm bringing in Kobe. Um, so if you're LeBron at that point, I would assume that you probably a little upset about that, that you're bringing in the actual alpha dog to come into this team. But the way that history

has been rewritten with these guys and with LeBron and with K, they act like, oh yeah, LeBron loved that. LeBron loved that idea. And I think at the time that probably wasn't the case.

No, I think they brought him in as like, you want to play ball or not? Because we have Kobe here. So LeBron, are you in this time or what's going on? Exactly.

Brandon Miller is the third ranked guy in your draft guide KFC. And he had 41 points after all of this happened and was magnificent. And it was a very strange sports experience to watch that because the stuff he was doing for a freshman in college was really advanced. You compared him to Paul George in your draft guide. This draft did not need

more drama, intrigue. This was already the biggest draft we were going to have, I don't know, at least in how many years? At least in the last 10, definitely since I've known you. Sure. I mean, the Zion one was pretty big as well. A lot of hype around him, but nobody since around Victor Wemba and Yama. And Scoot Henderson, the Zion one was pretty big as well. A lot of hype around him, but nobody since around

Victor Wembenyama. And Scoot Henderson, also a high-level player as well. And then Miller seems like he, if that's the third pick in the draft, that's somebody who could potentially be the number one scorer on a contender. Yeah, and the way Brandon Miller has grown this year as a talent,

I mean, I interviewed him in December. It was the game Alabama-Houston that Houston lost at home. Alabama won on the road, and Miller was not good that game. He was like one for nine. He hit some clutch free throws down the stretch of the game, but I interviewed him the day before that, and we talked a lot about some of his flaws on the court. We talked about his at-rim finishing.

He was shooting like 32% inside the arc at that point of the season. He's at like 72% at the rim and since mid-December. And it's the improvement with his hesitation dribbles, lowering his shoulder, using his offhand, you know, these tough off-balance finishes against contact. He improved on his biggest weakness at doing exactly the things that we talked about at the time. And he's like, I'm going to get better. He's like, I'm not worried about it. I'm lean. I'm And he's like, I'm going to get better.

He's like, I'm not worried about it. I'm lean. I'm so skinny right now. I'm going to get stronger. I need to improve at these micro skills. And it's like, oh my God, it's happened. Would you have called him a sure thing? Like before all of this happened?

I moved him to three at November and that was like, you know, written in like really light pencil. Like I was like, hey, he feels like the third best prospect. He's six foot nine. He can shoot off the dribble. He can create his own shot. He's got a flamethrower from behind the arc he

he you know he can defend he has versatility he can pass a little bit we saw that earlier in the year too he's asked to score for that team but he can pass as well we've seen that feel for the game so but ever since then he's definitely solidified you know it's like we're in an ink now i i will not move him lower than three. I think there are certain... He might be moving himself if more... Well... The wrong kind of news comes out.

That's what's so crazy about this story is I think one of the best prospects to ever be involved in something this unseemly, Tate, that I can think of. Yeah, and it's... What's crazy just from a college basketball standpoint, when you look at KOC's draft guide, the top five guys, there's only one college player and that's Brandon Miller,

you know? So I'm in an also Thompson. Exactly. And I've seen the Thompson's. I think they're very talented. It makes sense. They'd be top five guys. They're great athletes.

So when you look at the top five from a college basketball standpoint, the one guy that you hang your hat on and you say, I'm pulling for him as a college basketball guys, Brandon Miller. Yeah. And Brandon Miller, by all accounts was, you know, great in interviews. him as a college basketball guy is Brandon Miller. And Brandon Miller, by all accounts, was great in interviews. Everyone says he's a great kid, says he kind of keeps to himself

and is obviously a great player. And when I looked at him originally this year, I said, oh my God, that's Jabari Smith Jr., but he can dribble. That's really the difference between him and Jabari last year. And as I'm looking at all of the advanced analytics on shooting this year, it's like Paolo Bancaro and Jabari Smith are both just taking a bunch of jumpers and missing a bunch

of jumpers. And Brandon Miller's a great shooter, and I think he can develop into a great scorer. And I even heard some people before all this happened that they were saying, well, maybe if it fits your team, you might take Brandon Miller even over Scoot if it made sense for you. Number two, and there are certain teams that have loaded at guard

and you'd think they might take Brandon Miller. Like the Pistons. Until that Scoot picture came out a couple days ago when he looked like he was 30 years old. Yeah, I'll take Scoot.

Oh my God. And that's why with Miller it feels like he's locked in at three but then this happens and suddenly you're like, wait a minute, maybe not.

Well, and also there's the possibility, I don't know, he could get the plug pulled on him tomorrow if more stuff comes out. I don't love how any of this was handled from an optics standpoint, especially because, you know, somebody died. Yes.

We don't know all the details yet. There doesn't seem like there's a level of remorse from him, from the coach, from the team. And this is kind of where college sports falls apart for me and why, you know, I, you're younger than me and you, you grew up in Carolina and you love it. Like, this is your thing. And I used to, I used to, I never had the team, right. I had the, the bandwagon jump on. Yeah, Koozie way back for us. But the unseemliness of college sports really started to wear on me over the years. And this is like yet another example

where it's like, man, I feel like nobody is in charge. Yes. Which has been the recurring theme, right? With the NIL, like whatever you want to go, it always comes back to there's a rudderlessness with college sports

and especially football and basketball. And this is a great example. If this was a professional sports league, this guy would go away until they figured out what happened. Whether that's right or not right, you have to pull him out and kind of figure out what happened. And in college sports, he's playing on a Saturday. And what's crazy to me is, you know, you have a guy like Jay Billis, who's obviously a lawyer, who is in the thick of this conversation. And he's arguing on the other side and saying, Brandon Miller has rights. Brandon Miller is being treated as a witness. He is not being treated as someone that was a part of the actual crime. So that's the other side of the equation too, where the fact that we have to know all of these legal terms and we have to know how it's legal jargon. That's not what college sports

should be about. And the fact that it's happened so many times over the years with different situations and the fact that we're bringing up Dave Bliss, you know what I mean? I mean, this is not where you want to be in, and especially in a time when college basketball is supposed to be better, you know? That was the whole pitch.

It's getting better. Yeah, we're not going to take advantage of these kids. It hurts nobody if he takes 10 days off and just like, hey, let's see, somebody's died. Let's take a step back and see what happened. And instead, he had the best game of his freshman career, 41. Yeah. And you look at that and you go, man,

this guy was able to compartmentalize all of this stuff and lock all of it out and have this great game. In a weird way, it made him even a loftier prospect because it was like, if this guy can deal with this and play well, that says something. But in the other hand, he shouldn't have played great game. In a weird way, it made him even a loftier prospect because it was like, if this guy can deal with this and play well, that says something. But in the other hand, he shouldn't have played at all. And this is like that constant conundrum of college sports where you just feel dirty all the time. Football is worse, but basketball is probably second. And I texted KOC this. I mean, totally different scenarios and situations. But when I was watching

Miller in that game against South Carolina, it reminded me of Cam Newton when he played Georgia, when all that came out there that Cecil had gotten $250,000 and they were saying he shouldn't be playing in this game. And then Auburn's down early and then they go on this amazing, I think they ended up winning 28, 27. They were down 21 to zero or something like that. But it was like, wow, this one singular guy, Cam Newton did this. That's insane. And then he goes and elevates himself to be the number one pick and yada, yada, yada. The rest is kind of the story. But with Brandon Miller, I just, you know, he is so talented and they're trying to win the national championship. I mean, I think that is what is the kind

of the elephant in the room, right? For everybody. That's why we all kind of feel a little bit sick about it, because it's obvious that they're putting the team and the chance to win a championship over all the other stuff outside the court. And as human beings, we say that's a little messed up. You know, that's not what we wanted when we talk about college basketball. He should not have played that game. No. I mean, the way NBA people talk about it is exactly as you said, Bill. It's like this,

you know, kid who we don't know all the full details yet. It sounds like depending on everything we've heard, it seems like he's, like you said,

not being treated as a suspect here. Just as there's videotape that we have not seen yet. I'm sure the police has. There's all the text messages that we have

not seen like an hour's worth prior to the one that did leak. Yep. We have not seen that the police have. So we don't know all the details they do, have not seen, like an hour's worth prior to the one that did leak. We have not seen that. The police have. So we don't know all the details they do.

But he shouldn't have been playing, considering everything we're talking about. With that said, though, NBA people talk about this like, this kid who's going through all of this right now, the crowd chanting, lock him up, still had the best game of his career, is at least an example of his ability to withstand adversity and play at a high level through it he hit the game tying layup at the end of regulation the game winner at the end of overtime in that game with all that happening it does say something about his at least mental makeup and his approach to the game but we still don't know all the details and so it's so hard to talk about and it's even harder too because he's playing gg jackson who was the number one player in the 2023 class who reclassed and goes to south carolina so it's not like he's playing the houston rockets you know what i mean he's he's playing this team and this guy who was supposed to be a head-to-head competitor and he outplayed

him i mean he outdueled him head-to-head and that was the other part of it and the worst part is we can't even talk about it because we got to talk about this other crap. Yeah. It's one of those, those impossible stories. Yes. Because on the one hand, he might not have done anything wrong and we don't know all the facts yet.

And he has the right to continue his life. On the other hand, it's crazy that he played. Yeah. And he should have taken 10 days off. And this is what happens when nobody is overseeing anything, which is the constant theme of college sports. And then everybody wants to kick the can and point the finger at somebody else. And every other kind of like Auburn right now is celebrating because they look at Alabama. And when I brought up the Cam Newton thing, that was them 10 years ago.

You know, it's like everyone just hopes that you don't have the finger pointed at you. You know, that's what college sports is. You just try to kick the can. Patino's like, hey, I'm on hold if you guys want me to come in. I'm ready. One thing about Miller, just as a prospect, in the ESPN Top 100,

last year, he was ninth. Right? And the top two players were Lively and Whitehead, both of who went to Duke. And Miller ends up ninth, but now he's the best guy from that class. These things, I love looking through the ESPN top 100s.

They're so funny. They're so wrong. What they get wrong and what they get right, but mostly what they get wrong. I want that job. That's what I want my job to be. I want to make that list every year because it doesn't seem to matter.

Well, recently, Jonathan Gavone made his top 10 2024 NBA draft thing and he had Bronny James 10th, who I'm not even sure is one of the five best players in LA right now. Like we had a guy in Centennial, Jared McClain, who just won his third straight title, who went head to head against Sierra Canyon

and was the best guy in the game. They're the same age. So I don't know what to make any of this list. But when I see somebody like Miller be ninth, is that a miss or did he get better in the last year? He got better. Yeah, I think he got better. But that list is always a miss.

I mean, especially if you look at the top two guys. I mean, I like Lively. I think he's a good rim protector. If I were to compare Lively to someone in the NBA, like a Nick Richards maybe as someone that he could be but he's not the number one player in the class and like you look at the players ahead of Miller on that list Ware at eight Filipowski at seven George at six Bailey at five Mitchell at four Nick Smith at three Dereek Whitehead to direct Derek Lively at one

I get it I do get it with a lot of those guys with Miller it's the he was like more of just like a purely a skinny mid-range pull-up shooter. He's extended his range to three and improved that rim like we just talked about. And he's done it on a high volume. And he hasn't needed to show off his playmaking, which I think is what he's going to show in the NBA. So with Miller, I get that ranking at number nine. But at the same time, it shows how hard this is,

where like a Dereek Whitehead and Derek Lively, both completely underwhelming this year at Duke, even though Lively's been a bit better in recent weeks. Yeah, it's also, these are COVID recruitments right here.

You know, this is, these are COVID classes. So you have to almost kind of look at it with a grain of salt. I mean, it could be something that can advise you in a way to look at these guys, but also that was the hesitation

I had with the entire class. I'm like, I'm not sure any of these guys are rated properly, which is fascinating. The 2019 is one of my favorites. I love looking through these. So I'll just, everyone's around, just look through some of these. 2018, Wiseman won, Cole Anthony two,

Isaiah Stewart three, and then Anthony Edwards, the greatest athlete of all time he was four RJ Hampton Vernon Carey Jr. Jaden McDaniels

Josh Green Nico Mannion and Scotty Lewis was our was our top ten but then you go the next year

2020 Jalen Green Cade Cunningham Evan Mobley Kaminga Scotty Barnes Jalen Suggs pretty good

the top six like fucking nailed it yeah that was perfect think back to everything I said they got it right there yeah so some years it makes total sense and then other years

doesn't make sense at all the 21 one that had Chet Jaden Hardy second Imani Bates three Palo is four Baldwin Jr., five.

And Jabari Smith, six. Jalen Dern, seven. But I do think some of the smarter teams do look at these lists. Like Golden State, I know the Celtics did it too. They did it a bunch of times. But Golden State definitely, like, Baldwin Jr. was at like 27th,

had the worst college year of all time, right? Goes and plays for his dad. Yeah, it's just everything goes wrong. And Golden State's like, eh, had the worst college year of all time, right? Goes and plays for his dad. Yeah, it's just everything goes wrong. And Golden State's like, eh, let's throw that year away. We're getting a top five guy from a year ago. And by the way, he was playing yesterday. So it's not a bad way to think about it.

Just to think like that happened to Zyre Williams too. We had like the year from hell. And now I would say he's somewhat stable. But so in a way, like the lists are a little bit accurate, but then other times they're just all over the map. I don't know what to make of them.

I love looking at them. I read a coffee table book of just the list. I'm just like, oh, I'm going to look at 1983 today. Good book idea. That would be a good book idea. Should we do this?

Yeah, let's put that together. Let's take a quick break and then I want to talk about some more College Hoop stuff. When you ride transit, please be safe. I want to talk about some more college hoop stuff. So you won't hear them coming. You won't hear them coming. See, safe riding sets an example. Yeah, an example for me. Because safety is learned. It's learned. Okay, give it up.

Give what up? Really? Really, really. This message is brought to you by Metrolinks. So on FanDuel right now, the men's basketball champion odds, and again, this is on a Monday. Houston is the favorite at plus 650, which seems really high. And then Kansas plus 800, Alabama's nine to one, Purdue 10 to one, UCLA 10 to one. And then it dips down to Arizona 17 to one. So it doesn't seem like we have an actual favorite. Is that, is that job for you? Yeah. This whole, I mean, the, the thesis statement

of this season is no one is good, you know, or some people would say everybody sucks. I don't know which one you want to, I don't really prescribe to either one of those. I just say that I think that there are four really good teams that are in their own class. And that's Houston, I think is in their own class. I think Kansas is in their own class. I think Alabama is in their own class. And obviously, you know, that has a different connotation now.

And then UCLA is in their own class. So I think those four, that has a different connotation now. And then UCLA is in their own class. So I think those four teams I look at and I say, close my eyes, go to Houston. If those are the four teams in the final four, I think we have the four best teams. Not Purdue with what Indiana

did the other night to Edie and that drop coverage. It's not. Yeah, I mean, that's that has a factor. It's not really even about Purdue per se. I mean, I like this team. They just have two freshmen in the backcourt. They have a lot of, you know, either do something or do nothing. You know, there's an Ethan Morton kid who's a great glue guy, but sometimes he comes in and

he's, you know, over three, has three turnovers and does nothing for you. They have a few X factors like a Mason Gillis that comes and he had nine threes in one game this year. So I can see Purdue being able to flip games, but Edie's going to have an sec official in the second round and they're going to play Arkansas and eight or a nine seed. And that, that makes me, you know,

stay up at night as a Purdue fan, because that is what is worrisome. And there again, a young backcourt and two freshmen guards that are not NBA freshman guards. I mean, that could be a struggle. So can I read you a Bob Ryan tweet? Yeah,

please. I am watching produce seven foot four. Zach 80 play quality, big man basketball for the fourth or fifth time. And if it's true, there is no longer a place in the NBA for him. I am officially disgusted with the hostile takeover of the three, which is distorted basketball at every level.

I kind of agree. I like watching Zach 80. I was watching last night, Luke or yesterday over the three, which is distorted basketball at every level. I kind of agree. I like watching Zach Aiden. So good. I was watching last night, Luke, or yesterday in the Sunday games, Luke Garza came in

for Minnesota and had like a little natural player of the year. He had a player on the bow. Put back. I was like, let's go. Centers. Walker Kessler.

Centers might come back, KOC. I think with Eadie, he deserves to be drafted. I think there's a chance he becomes a valuable NBA player. Once you get to the 25th pick, why not? We know that guy can play. And also, I think with this draft, there's so many teams with multiple first-round draft picks.

Why not take a chance on the 7'4 behemoth who has some skill around the basket, who can be used in matchups where size is valuable against... Look, two finals contenders for the next five to ten years, Embiid and Jokic. There might be a moment you need a guy with size. And Giannis.

And Giannis, too. It's valuable. And Kessler. My God. Did you know Walker Kessler was going to be Bill Russell last year as you were watching? Let me tell you,

as someone that watched Garrison Brooks and Armando Baycott play in front of De'Ron Sharp and Walker Kessler, I was pulling my hair out. I was like, this can't be real. Roy Williams, what are

you doing? And then, you know, to watch these two guys play in the NBA, I mean, it just makes me sick to my stomach. Unbelievable. Yeah, he's great. Got great ball skills. Like, if we redrafted that, he's one of the top five picks from last year. There's no question that. Definitely top ten, right? I think with Kessler, I mean, Kyle Mann and I talked about this on the draft show

last week. Or no, actually, for our live show we did in Utah. It's like, he's a top high school player. He's a top college player. Wins defensive player of the year. And yet, you couldn't have expected him to be this amazing this soon in the NBA. I mean, he's better than, for Utah, better than Rudy Gobert ever was offensively. Because he has ball skill, like you said, Tate. He can handle a little bit. He can pass out of a short roll a bit even shot a three the other night

yes and that's why he transferred from Carolina because he was like I want to shoot threes and they were like that's not what we want to do here you botched this yeah I forgot that I think Roy Williams retired after after the end of that because come on Uncle Roy yeah that was not good but yeah I think Kessler like the end of that. Come on, Uncle Roy. That was not good. But yeah, I think Kessler, like he should watch Brooke Lopez tape and just try to emulate that game. And I feel like if he does that, we're talking about an all-star. How about Brooke Lopez should watch some Walker Kessler tape?

Maybe he'd flip it around. I can't believe how good he is. Does Brooke Lopez serve as an example for a guy, like even like a Zach Eadie? Like here's how you can go from defensive liability to highly effective, you know, all defensive team player with size. Keep those arms up. Keep your feet moving.

Right. I mean, I don't think Eadie has the fluidity and small spaces that a Brooke Lopez does. Lopez had always had it on offense. He just kind of translated it to defense. But I don't know. I think Brooke Lopez with what he did in his career going from low post, you know, all-star interior guy to shooting spot-up threes and

he's become a three-and-D guy at seven-foot one. I mean, to me, Brooke Lopez is a model that I think every college big man should be looking at, whether it's a Kessler or an Edie, no matter what type of player you are. I think at worst, Edie is like a Beaubon fun person to have in the locker room. Totally. No doubt about it.

I think he'll be better than Beaubon. He could be an 11th man on somebody's team. Yeah, he shouldn't go past like the 29th pick. And he started playing basketball at 15.

Anytime there's a kid that starts at 15 like that, like, you know, Embiid, any of these guys where it's late in life and then they slowly are developing, you have my attention.

One of the criticisms I see of Embiid is like he uses all his shoulders to create space. I'm like, so what? He's aggressive. I mean, yeah,

maybe he gets called for fouls and he needs to adjust, but you want that aggression against an Abid or a Jokic to translate. I think there's a, there's a rule for him

in the NBA. Even if he's just a situational guy, those guys are going to be important in those playoff series. Another thing, he's fucking Canadian.

Like the, the Canadian Olympic team has been on my radar for a while. I'm fucking the only one worried about this. The fact that Shea goes to Alexander, they have a crunch time guy. Well, you know who's going to save us? RJ Barrett. He's going to save us. He's going to go on that team and shoot him out of the game.

That's what we need. Are you enjoying RJ's rocky post-contract season for the Knicks? I'm just enjoying the experience all around. I mean, I like RJ's defense, Icontract season for the Knicks? I'm just enjoying the experience. Yeah, all around. I mean, I like RJ's defense, I will say. I like RJ Barrett's defense, but he can shoot you out of game in a heartbeat, as we saw at Duke.

So it's the same story. So he's the one person on Canada's team that I'm like, I think he's on our side. Wait, I got us off track. So you gave us four teams that you think can win the title, the favorites. Yes. I'm crossing off Purdue because they're Purdue.

They're not going to win the title. Who are we kidding? They'll lose in round two and be like, oh my God, they just lost to a team that hit 23s. I can't believe it. Purdue's out. Alabama, there's no way they win the title with all this stuff going. I'm crossing them off. Houston's Houston.

No. Houston could win the title. Nah, I'm crossing them off. Kansas. Houston could win it, but I like that you're crossing them off. I'm just crossing them off. Houston could win it, but I like that you're crossing them off. I'm just crossing them off. Too unrealistic. Kansas, now that Kansas has the blue blood, realistic.

But let's go to some of the little tastier further away teams. We like anybody in that 25 to 1, 30 to 1? I'm not sure the odds, but I like Marquette. Marquette is 26 to 1 on FanDuel. I think Marquette is a team.

One, this is the highest they've been ranked in the AP poll since 1978. Wow. I actually remember that team. Right. And Al McGuire is one of my favorite coaches. I love Al McGuire. They won the title in 1977 against my North Carolina Tar Heels. Phil Ford had a hurt ankle. Tommy Lagarde was hurt, so there was a lot of

excuses in there. But Marquette won the championship. Marquette has the pedigree. I think shaka smart's in a perfect situation and i think that you know when you come to the tournament this year they are going to speed the game up for teams and they're going to cause a lot of problems and uh you know marquette is just good narrative too at the shock of smart thing and shock is a little too close to the sun. Had a little crash. A little comeback. He was always a good coach. This is who... I could hear all the rhetoric. Texas hated him.

I mean, the powers that be at Texas did not like Shaka for whatever reason. I think Shaka's a very likable guy, but there was, you know, Texas is Texas and Shaka is Shaka. They didn't really mix.

They didn't really match. You know what I mean? So the fact that he's at Marquette, it makes sense. It's a place he understands, a place he gets, and Marquette knows how to win. So I think Marquette's a good one Marquette 26 to 1 right behind them is Indiana at 30 to 1 what about them Trace Jackson Davis I like Jalen Hood Shafino he's

really good he's one of the best freshmen in the country he had I think you know 33 against Purdue or 31 something like that so he had a great game like Indiana. I think they're a sweet 16 team. I don't think that they're a Final Four title team, but I would love to be proven wrong because it's good for basketball for Indiana to be good. It's good for Mark Cuban to care about Indiana basketball. I think you'd like Trace Jackson Davis as an NBA guy, Bill. Listen, I can't

wait to throw myself into this four weeks and pretend I know what I'm talking about. It's gonna be great. I got the scout on Trace Jackson Davis. Make him go right. There's only one player that I know what I'm talking about. It's going to be great. I got the scout on Trace Jackson Davis. Make him go right. There's only one player that I know that's going to go left and can go left every single time, and that's Zion Williamson. Everybody else, I would like you to be able to go

the other way. So that's my concern with Trace Jackson Davis. I just don't think he's going to have to do a lot of that in the NBA. It's going to be screen and roll DHOs, dive to the rim, switch on defense. I think he won't have to. He's the most frequent post-up player in college basketball. He gets doubled more than anybody.

That's not going to be a thing for him in the NBA, but you're right. He doesn't improve. He's improved a lot. I think so. I go into the 65-1 range. Duke's 55-1. Iowa State's 65-1 and San Diego State's 75-1 and nestled

in between all of those teams is Tate's North Carolina Tar Heels. It's 65-1. I wish it was 100-1. Seems a little high, but yeah, you're right. It could go, but they're probably, they're going to make it unless they play them out next week, right? They're playing Florida State tonight. If they lose on the road at Florida State, I think that'll make it

an uphill climb. They're going to have to beat Duke on Saturday. I'll be at that game, so I'm excited about that to see that in person. This Carolina team is probably the most frustrating basketball group of players I've ever watched in my entire life. They could beat anybody. They could lose to anybody. They took Alabama to four overtimes.

Could have won that game five times in that game, but I don't know. I'm not sure the magic is there this year. I think last year there was some sort of divine intervention because of Coach K and his hubris. There's some sort of Icarus story to go with this. And I'm not sure they had the same thing

this year. It's funny that Coach K, the other team, spurred on North Carolina's incredible run. I like it. Any long, long, long shots for you, KFC? In college basketball? I watch college basketball through an NBA lens.

Yeah. So you love Pepperdine. Yeah. Maxwell Lewis. Yeah, I like Maxwell Lewis. Final four. How about like TCU? Plus TCU, you got Miles in that backcourt.

Are they like a deep sleeper? I think TCU. I mean, the Big 12 in general, if you want to bet on a team to win the title, it's someone in the Big 12. Okay. So in my heart of hearts, like I said earlier, Kansas is the team.

I can't get them out of my mind. They switch everything. Oh, they're so fun. They have this guy, KJ Adams, who is, I mean, if I was the Warriors, I would say we want KJ Adams to come here. He's a small ball five. And Grady Dick.

Get both of them. Get both of them. Like, get both of them. I mean, Kansas is a fascinating group, and I think if it's not Kansas out of the Big 12, Baylor. Baylor is a team that has my full attention. They got Chachawa back,

who is one of their best defensive stalwarts, and I think they're going to be a really good team. Alabama's taking them off the hook. Yeah. I'd say George, maybe he has like a big 30, 35 point game in that big game. Exactly. Kansas 8-1.

Plus the Chiefs just won. I don't know if that ties in at all. And we haven't had a repeat since Florida, you know. And even though this Kansas team, they lost Remy Martin, they lost Ochai Agbaje, they lost Christian Brown, you know, they lost David McCormick.

They lost a lot of guys on their team. They still have Jalen Wilson, who's one of the best players in the country. And they have two guys that can really get you 30 points when you talk about Grady and you talk about Jalen Wilson. Can I talk to you guys in Iowa at 4-8-1

for the women's title? Just to ride the Cain Clark bandwagon? Sure. I do feel like they'll have the most bets because nobody follows women's basketball. Just like, what team is she on? The one who's on SportsCenter all the time. She is amazing though.

She is great. I feel like she's going to save the WNBA in some ways. She's got a great bravado about her too. She seems as if she wants the spotlight, which I love. Did you see when she hit the game winner and she just ran? Yeah, like Jalen Suggs moment.

She just ran into the concourse basically and just was screaming at the fans. It's amazing. She's the type of the concourse basically and just was screaming at the fans. Yeah. It's amazing. She's the type of player the W needs with all that mentality and the style of play as well.

It's a likable style. I mean, Taurasi's the best ever. Yeah. Taurasi's now in her late 30s and, you know, I think that this would be

a good one for them. In the face. Anything else we need to cover, Tate? When is your, what's your podcast schedule? My podcast schedule, I mean, Kyle and I are putting it together.

We're trying to get everything, all of our ducks in a row, but yeah. Couple this week. Yeah. Trying to get two out this week to get things started, get people fired up,

you know. We'll tweet out the link, the one shining pod. You can, if you already subscribe, you're good. But if you haven't subscribed, you could refollow it,

get it on Spotify, Apple, wherever you get pods. Yeah. Please subscribe. And we're excited. I mean, college basketball is the best time of the year.

March is the best time of the year. I get to go see Carolina play Duke in person. My birthday's coming up. I'm still in my 20s, Bill. Did you know this? I'm still in my 20s. It's been a long time. You started working for us.

You were like 22. Yeah, right. It's been a long time in my 20s. I'm praying to God I can get to 30, which is March 13th. Then I'll finally be locked in and loaded. So that'll be good. I'm excited to back to it. I'm fired up.

I will say Kyle. He's getting married this year. We think it's still on schedule, right? Still happening. Two thumbs up from Kyle. Did you have the bachelor party yet, Kyle? No comment. He told me I wasn't invited to the bachelor party.

Can we hear Kyle? Yeah, I just have no comment. That's all. to the bachelor party. Can we hear Kyle? Yeah, I just have no comment. That's all. To the bachelor party, did it happen yet? Not yet. That's it? No comment.

Only frolic room friends are invited, I think. Jesus. Okay. All right, Tate, good to have you back. KOC, thank you. We can hear KOC

on the NBA draft show, on the mismatch. You're doing some live shows what's the next one yeah we got March 6th in LA me and Chris Vernon he's flying out here to LA we're gonna do a live show

at the El Rey Theater super excited about that I gotta come to that that's gonna be great you're invited to I gotta yell youtube.com youtube.com

and then we're doing some Memphis two weeks later it looks like March 21st, I think is the unofficial date. There's going to be some meeting. All right. Thanks guys.

Thanks Bill. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Ari Hawani. Thanks to Mike Schur. Thanks to Tate Frazier and Kevin O'Connor. Thanks to Kyle Creighton for producing. Thanks to Steve Cerruti for looking in as well.

Thanks to you for listening. Don't forget, I am going to be on Tate's podcast later this week. I'm also going to be on the Prestige TV podcast with a Succession Hall of Fame episode Wednesday night and then Rewatchables. That one's already up. So fun, fun podcast today.

I'll see you on Thursday. On the wayside On the Bruce and Leveron Say I don't have To ever forget