The Bill Simmons Podcast - The Tatum-Brown Thing, AD’s Rejuvenation, Trae’s Troubles, and LIGHT THE BEAM With Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: December 6, 2022

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo for a midseason NBA check-in! They discuss the Pelicans as fringe title contenders, the Suns' best bet to keep Chris Paul on the court for the playoffs, and the surprisingly poor start from the Timberwolves (3:00). They also wonder "What is wrong with the Hawks?," rank the Kings in the West, praise the dynamic duo of Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum, and make their very early All-NBA teams (20:39). Finally they discuss the future of the Pacers, the Anthony Davis renaissance, rapid-fire sports and TV stuff, and more (1:11:58). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Ryen Russillo Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, we're doing a bunch of best of 2022 stuff on TheRinger.com and TheRinger Podcast Network right now. Go check out The Big Picture. They did the top five movies of 2022, as well as The Ringer Music Show. They did a best of 2022 draft featuring Charles Holmes, Justin Sales, and Logan Murdoch, the new big three. Go check it out. It's the Bill Simmons Podcast presented by FanDuel. Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest rated sports book is the best place to bet it all. We've been doing pretty well

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Your game time tastes like Miller time. Must be legal drinking age. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. Put up a new Rewatchables on Monday night. We did Man on Fire, me and Chris Ryan, the Denzel classic, the Tony Scott classic, the Dakota Fanning classic, one of my favorite action movies in the past 25 years.

We talked about every nook and cranny, Man on Fire. I have a really hot take there in the episode too about Denzel that you'll enjoy. I love that movie. Prestige TV pod, Joanna Robinson and I, we did episode six, White Lotus on Sunday night. We're gonna do episode seven on Sunday night

or Monday morning, whenever we get screeners. But in the meantime, Joanna and Mallory Rubin are going to do their theories for what's going to happen in the season finale. They're going deep dive, Reddit board, all kinds of crap. Check that out probably Thursday. If you love White Lotus, Rosillo's going to talk about White Lotus

a little bit later on this podcast. We haven't had Rosillo for almost two months and we had a lot of basketball to catch up on. We tried to do it so that we didn't talk Celtics until the 40 minute mark. We succeeded on that. We also pushed Anthony Davis and the Lakers and everything that's going on there

until the end of the podcast. Because by the time you hear this, the Cleveland game is going to be tonight. Who the hell knows? He might have a hundred points against Cleveland. He might get hurt. So we didn't want to lead the podcast with Davis, even though he deserved it. The Celtics deserved it too, honestly, but we audible talked a bunch of NBA. Speaking of NBA, we're presented by FanDuel Sportsbook. I am going to figure out a same game parlay on Wednesday on my Twitter feed, because there's like 15 Wednesday games.

So there's like Lakers, Raptors. There's a really good Celtics at Phoenix. Celtics starting a big road trip. Kings at Bucks. I'm going to figure out a same game parlay and tweet it out on Wednesday. We actually had a really good million dollar pick stay on Sunday. I didn't realize Fandle told me one of the bets was Washington to win in the adjusted under 52 and a half. And Fando says when it's a tie, they count that to win bet as a push. So I won half the bet. So I thought I lost a million dollars on that and I actually won 200,000.

I'm so excited. I've never been more excited to win fake money, but we had a little rebound on million dollar picks. I think we're about 3 million down for the season, but I'm going to get that back. I have a good feel for the league right now. Heading into the playoffs. I like where we're at.

I like where we're at with this NBA season too. Ryan Rosillo is next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, taping this. It is 10 o'clock Tuesday morning. Just watched a riveting 0-0 Morocco win over Spain. I love soccer. The only real rub with soccer is when somebody can win 0-0. And you can see Morocco just be like,

hey man, it would be nice if we get to PKs. Like basketball, there's no way basketball could work like that. You couldn't basically just sit for some sort of, you know. And then of course they took care of business at PKs. But anyway, I'm rambling. How are you? I'm good. I'll never understand like nobody gets to know how much time's left

like think about that think if you were like okay we're gonna have this sport you guys are gonna run up and down it's gonna be five on five and we're gonna you know every bucket's gonna be two and then eventually they'll make threes if you get fouled you get two chances at one point shots and there's traveling you get a pass you get a rebound you get to defend athleticism all this stuff like well how long does it go well it kind of goes like 48 minutes ish and then everyone in the arena everybody watching tv and the guys playing nobody really will know what it is and i know soccer people are like really protective of that that seems it's always felt like a pretty simple fix. Yeah, you would think. Well, it's tough with the injuries and stuff.

And even like, I see it in high school and youth soccer, the same thing. There's no level of soccer where they figured this out. It's always, you never really totally know how much time's left. Incredible NBA season so far. We haven't talked, you and I haven't talked since we did the over-under

on a pod in two months. This is our first pod in almost two months. What's your favorite thing about this season so far? Probably just the high level guys. And it's a carryover

of what we've probably talked about the last couple of years, Bill. Just how many awesome players there are in this league. And it feels like every night you're going, about the last couple years bill just how many awesome players there are in this league and it feels like every night you're going i want to watch this guy you know like sometimes it'll be a game where i go i feel like this is the game i need to watch but then there's like you know i haven't watched this guy in a week or something like that like even getting back to zion that

zion game against the raptors where the other cj and ingram were out and toronto's trying to figure out what to do with Zion, and then you're reminded, oh, when he has the ball a lot, that's right, he's an insane passer on top of everything else. So I think the high-level talent and the last thing that would be quick was something we also touched on before the season started. The worst teams are all still fun because I want to see who these guys are. We've had awful teams in the past where you go,

what are you even rooting for? Houston's not a good team. There's four or five players, and I watched last night's double overtime game again. That was gross. Me too. It was one of the worst games I've seen all season. But at the same time, if you're a Rockets fan,

it's exciting just because it's unknown, and you're wondering what four or five of these guys are going to be. So even the worst teams are a lot. Maybe they're not a lot of fun for everybody. It's just super interesting. Hugh? Yeah, I've been trying to do every week, trying to do a power poll so I have a feel for where the teams are.

And the worst five teams are San Antonio, Detroit, Houston, Charlotte, and Orlando. I like watching four of those five teams. I don't like watching Charlotte. I'm out on Charlotte. But the other four, even San Antonio, they have guys I like. I know they're in like tanking for stuff, but every team seems to have like three or four players that I enjoy watching. I think it's been, we predicted that this was going to be a really talent stack season and that there were

some middle-class teams that we were optimistic on, like Sacramento. I think what's weird about this year is the latest list I made, I had Indiana as the 19th team. They just went into Golden State and beat Golden State last night without Halliburton. And Turner. Yeah, that's the variance this year. It feels like anyone can beat anyone on night-to-night, but it's not like parody like it is with the NFL where in the NFL, they want it that way. In this case, there's just like a shitload of talent.

I think, I think the, the new Orleans piece has been kind of, you know, Davis, everybody's talking about Davis and the Lakers the last few days. And we'll talk about that later. We're trying to be careful because they're playing Cleveland tonight.

We didn't want to lead with Davis because who knows what's going to happen today. I think New Orleans, everyone was kind of looking at them with the amount of talent they had. The fact that none of the guys were healthy at the same time, but then there was some really good advanced stats with them already, even though they hadn't had their full team. And now they're 15 and eight. And as you said, like they can, they have all these options where it's just like, let's make this the Ingram game. Let's make this the Zion game. They're the kind of high-ceiling

team to me. Would you call them a fringe contender for you or are they an actual contender? Actual contender feels too soon because we still haven't seen enough of it. Ingram's missed eight games. CJ's missed a handful. Herb Jones has missed some games but every night like even you know two guys like that so i think you're on it every now and then i'll be like oh that's right you know like

early in the season trey murphy is a real thing yeah like he was he was more than just a three point shooter at uva and now you're seeing him on some of these drives. And I've even seen some offerings from Herb that I'm like, wait, this is different. And Valanciunas gives you a big option if you want to do that. Larry Nance. Larry Nance is always the one where, obviously, I know he's on the Pelicans, but it's this running joke

where I could tweet every night, Larry Nance is on the Pelicans? Alvarado's better. Devontae Graham, if you needed to roll somebody. Dyson Daniels, he was really good in the Torontoicans. Alvarado's better. Devontae Graham, if you needed to roll somebody like Dyson Daniels, he was really good in the Toronto game. And that's without Jackson Hayes even playing half the season. So they're the deepest

team, which makes me feel like I have I think they're the deepest one through nine, one through ten. What do you think? It's Boston? I think it's those two. I think it's Boston and New Orleans. I think we could argue about that at least in the west no question they're the deepest team if you'll get me on the known at the end of the rotation versus there's still some names like i'll always kind of kid that like sometimes familiarity can confuse us with depth just

because you know who the guys are um i just think they have a million different options different body types so saying all that makes it feel like you have to just think they have a million different options, different body types. So saying all that makes it feel like you have to scream like they're a real contender, not a fringe contender, but it still feels a little quick to say they're in the group of four or five teams. I actually think if they won an NBA championship,

like here's the way you do it. If the Pelicans won the NBA championship in 23, would you be surprised? I wouldn't be surprised if they made the finals. Cause I think the West, I still don't have a West team that I feel a hundred percent on. Right. You'd say Boston and Milwaukee are the two best teams right now.

I think by any calculation, especially when you think Milwaukee has Ingalls coming back, they're going to get Connaughton healthy and the whole thing. Like they're, they're going to be by, by March, they're going to be there. But then like Phoenix,

Denver, Memphis, Golden State, New Orleans, and then the Lakers as the wild card, if they make a trade, I don't know. I don't feel like any of them has separated themselves from anyone yet. And they all bring different things to the table. New Orleans, McCollum, he was hurt. I think he was sick. He just hasn't had a good season. And then they've had some injury stuff too. And they're still 15 and eight, you know, that that's where I'm like, holy shit. Could this be like one of those teams

that after the all-star break goes like 30 and five, you know, if they could just keep everyone healthy. I think they have that. I think them and Memphis probably have the highest ceilings. I still like Memphis's ceiling from a playoff pedigree the most, just because we've seen it. We haven't seen it with New Orleans. I don't know about their defense. What did you take from that one Celtics-Pelicans game when the Celtics murdered them? They just couldn't stop the Celtics at all.

Yeah, that was the bad version of the Pelicans' defense. But statistically, I feel like that game was an anomaly. Yeah, maybe it was. I broke the season down into two parts when I do all my offensive and defensive rankings to see what kind of fall-off you have. It can tell a real story. We're like, okay, wait a minute.

Dallas, all of a sudden, they're not playing any defense. The first few weeks of the season, they were one of the best defensive teams, which felt like a carryover of what was going on last year. The Pelicans have held up defensively since the way I broke it up, just to play along here with the podcast, but say middle of November to now, they've actually been a pretty good defensive team. And prior to that, they were top 10 still.

So I just think Boston's at such a different level because I don't know how much you want to get into Tatum and Brown, but this is- I want to do that next segment. I have a whole segment you want to get into tatum and brown but i want to do that next segment i have a whole segment i want to so let's i don't want to lead with that because people get mad at us but of course you wouldn't be wrong first one in two months um so here's the thing though the pelicans i still think the answer is kind of leaning towards yes it'd be a surprise they wanted to be a championship because you're wondering like is zion then going because we know what that top guy has to do in the playoffs he has to carry you in a way and it's like now i'm just going to assume all that's going to work out in the playoffs so i love the roster i love the stats of the best fourth

quarter offense and all that kind of stuff and they haven't even really had their full full guys and they have this kind of record so it it feels fringy still because we don't know what any of these guys are going to be like in big playoff moments. There's trade potential with them that I think we have to at least kind of tuck away. When you're talking about who can come out of the West, they have the most options to do some stuff. And if they're sitting there and they're around 50 wins, I do think they'll get aggressive. They have so many picks. Even that Lakers pick, which is a lot less valuable than it was two weeks ago. That's still a middle of the first round pick at

worst. Not to mention all the other stuff they have and pick swaps and things like that. So I don't think they would, they just re-signed CJ. They have the Graham contract, I think maybe. I don't know if they would mess with their big guys because it's actually, as you said, there's some malleability with them that I like where they can go big against certain teams, a little smaller against other teams. But they could upgrade one spot.

And I think what we're going to see as we get to the all-star break, we know San Antonio and Detroit and Houston, Charlotte, probably Chicago, maybe OKC. You'll see one of Utah or Indiana will be sellers. There'll be like seven sellers with good players on good contracts. And if somebody like Caruso becomes available, that's where, you know, like if New Orleans could just add Caruso to what they have and then Devante Graham and they give some picks, they're just adding that dude as

a crunch time guy. Then I think the ceiling goes up would be my guess. They could probably do whatever they want. You're right. But the only limitation there is what's the price for a rental knowing that are you going to be positioned

to be able to keep somebody? What's the personality of the guy that you're bringing in? Is he going, hey, let's see what happens this year, but I'm probably out of here because it's still not a destination. The Zion thing worked itself out. Ingram probably, I think, liked being there away from the Lakers stuff. It felt like he became a better player after that. CJ's old enough and kind of over it enough to go, hey, we've got a real chance at this. So I just always worry about, and this is the case for probably more than half the franchises in the league,

is if I'm making a move or I'm giving up real assets, what's the commitment that I'm getting back? Am I getting a guy that's going to hang out for a couple months and then be like, I actually never wanted to be here in the first place? So for them, if it's a guy that's not expiring and the price isn't that bad, you're right, though. I mean, to the bigger point, they have talent and picks that they can pay. They can probably outbid anybody if it's somebody they really want.

And we talk about this. I mean, we've been potting together, I don't know how many years now. Like, if you have the window, you have to at least take it a little bit seriously, no matter how young you are. You saw it with the Celtics last year. You saw it with the Celtics in 2018. You saw with the Warriors in 2014 and 15, like you just kind of never know.

And I think the West, I can't get a feel for it. It felt like the Warriors were getting it together for a second. And then, you know, they just have these games where you're like, Hmm, you know what,

what are there? And then they just have these games where you're like, hmm, if Klay just doesn't have it and their defense goes sideways for a quarter, what is this team? Phoenix, I don't know what to make of the Chris Paul thing. You're the world's number one Chris Paul fan. Do you trust that he's going to be able to play 10 straight weeks in the spring? Because I don't. No, I don't. And for me, with Paul, it's been about pacing him. I felt like Phoenix needed to do a better job

of having somebody next to him that allowed him to even, if he was going to play, you have to have him run every single set. You're going to be good. I didn't buy into that Phoenix was going to fall flat on its face. To see them and have Booker, by the way,

like, oh, I got this. One of my favorite things about Booker is when they were bad, he initiated the offense. So when they've lost Paul, he can figure it out. Payne's been a little bit better. I actually think Phoenix has really improved their bench from what I thought was one of the worst bench. You're a contender and you don't want any bench whatsoever.

What are you guys doing? So they've done a better job of that. But to say, hey, Paul will be fine. If anything, if there's a positive way that I can find a way to, like, cool, rest it up. Miss more time. They're winning enough games. There's not somebody else in the West that you're afraid of.

They should likely still have a really good seed. And maybe this is a way to have paul be fresh every playoff game as opposed to every other one yeah we we couldn't get a feel for how many good teams we're gonna have in the west and i think we have five that we're sure of i still like sacramento we'll talk about them in a second the lakers is is the wild card. And then Clippers last night, where I'd kind of written off the Clippers in my head. I was like, alright, this Kawhi thing, this is come on, stop it. And then they have that

Charlotte game and he makes the last two shots of the game. You count that as a night? No, I was just like, oh. I just thought Kawhi was going to be, you know, moving to where Chris Weber was in the 0405 range. It's like, oh, C-Web's back. It's like, is he? But the fact that he actually played pretty well and they had Paul George together and you're like, oh, all right, this is this isn't nothing. I don't trust that Kawhi is going to be there six months from now. But I went to the game on Saturday. I went to the Kings Clippers game. They didn't have Kawhi, they didn't have Paul George, they had Norm Powell, and they didn't have Luke Kennard. And it was just, they just got their asses kicked. And you're watching Kawhi and

Paul George street clothes. And you're like, is this just what it's going to be the rest of the way? These guys where you never know what you're going to get. So I don't know. The fact that he came back, I thought it was relatively interesting. And then Dallas is the other one. I did a power poll last week on this pod I was talking about. I just, Dallas didn't seem right to me. They've done some stuff, like they switched Hardaway and Bullock.

Josh Green's coming on a little. They had one big win. So now I feel dumb that I was like, all right, they got Luka. Like don't, at least take them a little seriously. So I apologize for last week, listeners. But the West, you know, the one team that we didn't get Like don't at least take them a little seriously. So I, I apologize for last week listeners. Um,

but the West, you know, the, the one team that we didn't get that I think we're accounting on was Minnesota. I think we thought at least they'd be like a 48 win team. I don't think they're going to be that right. Yeah. We still hated the trade,

but I still thought they'd be good in the regular season. Good regular season team. They might be worse than they actually are because they have the best clutch record right now in the NBA at 6-2, which you're like, is that because you have all these guys I really trust? It's probably not the answer. Last year, they finished defensively. They were 13th. This year, they're 16th.

How did that happen? Wait, I thought they would at least, because they stagger them. They try to stagger Towns and Gobert. We know Towns is going to be out for a while. I wish they could just hand the keys to Ant. That's not going to happen. D'Angelo Russell's worst

PR in eight years. It's a guards league and they probably have one of the five worst guards as a creator at the end of games that you would want. Yeah, and Gobert's numbers are down too and it's the same shit. It's wings driving and Gobert's

hands are up. It's like the kid who no one will call on in class. That's how he plays offense. Just waving and everyone going like, no, dude like i'm not i'm not we're not doing this and so i didn't like any of it for the playoffs but i felt like with edwards and whatever they're going to try to find a way to do to to combine towns and go bear and then split them up and all this different stuff like i i'd say the record may be disappointing.

It might be even worse considering how well they've done in some of the close games. Agree. I also can't overemphasize how unfun they are to watch. And you and I both love Edwards. I just don't like watching that team, all the pieces together. The body language is horrible. I like their bench guys better.

I like some of the bench guys that come in. I go, I don't know, this is a little bit more fun. A little Nas Reid action. Atlanta versus Minnesota for worst body language this year. It's been just an epic Ali Frazier-like battle. I think Atlanta, Atlanta, it's gone. Actually, let's take a break and we'll talk about Atlanta quick. And then I want to do the Tatum Brown stuff. This episode is brought

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It's the ability to reach further with access to over 1,400 lounges worldwide. Redefine possible with Business Platinum. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms and conditions apply. Visit mx.ca slash business platinum. So Atlanta, we have a tortured history discussing Trey Young on our podcast where we just believed a certain thing. Then they made the Eastern Finals.

We were like, hey, man, this guy, he came through. We got to hand it to him. And now it's kind of back to where we thought it would always be. And they're miserable to watch. They have the worst body language, I think, in the league. Trey, even though he's put up 27 a game, is probably the least fun he's looked to

play with in his career. And then they had this whole Nate McMillan thing. There was this athletic article and did he send him home? Nate McMillan comes out. He was mad in a press conference about it. And then they go out and they lay an egg last night. And everybody in the team seems to be available for a trade

except for Murray and Trey. And at some point, they have to start looking at Trey at least a tiny bit here. Maybe we're not at that point. But they just seem dysfunctional to me. And yet, somehow, they're three games over 500.

I don't get it. I think the roster is really good. Yeah. You know, Hunter feels like he looks a little different, meaning better, even though the numbers are kind of the same. Collins, I've never been a huge fan of. I think it was the Philly loss where it was all the backups for Philly, which was hilarious because it was like those guys are playing

10 times harder than the stars for Philly. At the beginning of the year. At the beginning of the year, the Philly guys got off kind of to, I just thought, an effort level that was kind of a bad start. You were correct. Yeah, right. And so Doc did a really good job. So Trey's coming over half court, and they met him with a defender

right at half court. And it was two screens that were going to be set. So it wasn't like elbow screens. It was off to the side because they run this high picture it's the same fucking thing they do all the time it's not that hard to figure out and doc had the defenders on the screens like jump up so they were extending all this pressure and the whole point was they're going to destroy the first action right they're like whatever you're going to try to do we're going to position ourselves you're going to have like it's going to screw it up. And so Trey realized it because he's still a really smart player. He's like, all right, let's reset this. Let's do it

over. So they bring another guy back out and now it's get late in the shot clock. It's a huge moment. They do a good job on Trey. He gets it to John Collins. Collins drives and the clock is like about to expire and he passes it to somebody. It's just like out of bounds, whatever. It was a huge possession. Yeah. Watch it all. They pass the just like out of bounds, whatever. It was a huge possession. They passed the ball to the least of any team in the NBA. Trey Young, somehow with DeJounte Murray on the team, his usage rate has gone up. If there was one bet I would have lost,

I'd be like, well, that has to change a little bit. I thought they even brought in DeJounte, not just to add to the talent bill, but to then go, hey, sometimes you don't always have to do this kind of stuff. As far as him being the least fun to play with, I think his early stuff was when it was really bad. It was the first time I noticed it. I remember going on Woj's pod four years ago where I went, sometimes I'll see his team get a defensive rebound after he's taken a bad shot, and they don't give him the ball back when they bring it up. That doesn't happen anymore. He's a terrific passer. The shooting is down. But this

story with McMillan, I just wonder when the strongest Trae Young defenders would be like, maybe it is our guy because this McMillan story was bad. He wanted Pierce out. He got him out. There's been hints at all this stuff that's happened and it's a really talented team and they're probably still going to be in the playoffs. I thought they were maybe the most disappointing team in the East last year, other than Brooklyn. So this has been a carryover. I'm just wondering, was the Philly thing just a fluke?

Because that's what it feels like. And I don't know who Trey wants to be. I would wonder how many guys that are his teammates are like, this is a lot of fun because it doesn't look like it's fun. Philly just beats them in one of those games where they had the 25-point lead. We're probably discussing

this differently, but I had the same problem with the Murray trade. Even though I liked it and I thought fundamentally what they gave up, it was a fair price, but it's one of those trades when you make it, you're finished product. Like what the Gobert was.

When you're giving up that many assets for something, you're saying we have now arrived. This is now a team that has a chance to win the title. And the more I think about it, fundamentally, I'm not sure I'm cool with giving up all of those assets if I'm not guaranteed to be like one of the five teams that have a chance

to win a title. Like when the Lakers did it for Davis, I thought they gave up way too much. But fundamentally, it was like, all right,

now they have LeBron and Davis. They're one of the five best teams. I get it. This one, the Murray thing, we had questions about, all right, how's this going to work

with Murray and Trey together? It was the one question, right? We both like Murray, but it's like, how is this going to work with them? Two guards who have the ball a lot. This'll be weird. The Gobert thing, it's like, Gobert and Towns? Fundamentally, you and I just rejected that like a bad kidney. This doesn't make sense. And that's where I think teams get in trouble when they do these panic trades with all these assets. If you don't know what you're

getting, why are you doing the trade? If I'm giving up everything, which they didn't give up everything, but they gave up a big part of their future, right? And that trade could really come back to haunt them. To not really totally know how those two guys would mesh, that'd make me nervous. And I don't see any path for them to be one of the best three teams in the East. Boston, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Philly, and Brooklyn as kind of the talent wildcards. And then whatever the hell Miami is. And Atlanta

is kind of there with Toronto and a couple other teams. But I'm with you. I think they're talented, but they're certainly not well coached. They don't seem like they like playing with each other. So what would make us think that this is going to turn around? I don't see it. Is trading John Collins going to solve

it? I don't think so. People have been kicking the tires on John Collins for a really long time. I think Miles Turner right now has the lead of longest to be on the move for what's the market for. John Collins is probably right there behind him.

They're a bad offense. How are they bad on offense? This is a bad offense. Again, maybe it leads to the Trey usage and then a shooting thing where it's a bit of an anomaly. He's not going to be this bad of a shooter, but they've been better defensively. I like their bigs.

I think I like Hunter. Do you have any threes they make a game? I don't know. 9.8. The Celtics make 16. So you have this team that you would think like, oh, Trey and Murray, this team must be a good three-point shooting team.

Say, no, actually they're not. They're 32.7% from three. They don't even make 10 a game in 2023. They're 28th in offensive efficiency in the fourth quarter. Like that's reserved for the awful teams of young players. Now maybe like the offense has to get like, look, AJ Griffin, this has been fun because you go, hey, look, he went later than he went because he got hurt in high school.

And at Duke, he stood in the corner because he had all these other ball handlers. But man, if you watch him in high school and all these different things, you're seeing the full version of his game. I didn't like Jalen Johnson at all. He looks like a guy that's got a little bit of shit to him now where he's kind of accepting like, this is going to be your NBA role, so do these things.

Play with big effort. Be big out there. Bogdanovich just came back. So I think the front office has done a really good job. Except for the Herter trade. I hated the Herter trade. Well, that one, yeah, that was a money-saving thing, and now Herter's. No, whatever.

You can't just give away Herter for protected picks. That guy's a playoff player. I'm not for it. I'm just, you know, I think for them to do the other things, that's why they did it. I get it. I don't know. So I was going to ask you later, but I'll just do it now.

Because I've been messing around. Every week I've been messing around with the trade value list because we want to run one at some point during the winter. How many guards under 30 would you take over Trae Young? If you had a team, you could have him for like the next seven years, right? So I'm going to give you the list. Luka doesn't count.

I'll just ask you one guy at a time. Would you take the guy over Trey? Devin Booker. Yes. John Morant. Yes. Shea Gilgis-Alexander. Yes. All right. I have Gilgis Alexander. Yes.

All right. I have those three as well. When's this going to get hard? Anthony Edwards. Anthony Edwards. All right, there's four. Tyrese Halliburton. I take Tyrese.

I think people love playing with him. And there's also an element too that we haven't Trey's gonna hurt you defensively and he's expensive too alright so there's five I have the same five Donovan Mitchell Mitchell

there's six so Garland in there too oh I'm getting those guys I'd rather have Garland I was going to give you Desmond Bain Anthony Simons and Darius Garland Bain feels like the wrong answer people are going to freak out

I don't want the leader of my team to be Trey Young there you go done so you would take Bane over Trey? Fuck it. Yeah. That's wrong. It's the wrong answer. It's the wrong answer if you're trying

to sell jerseys and have fans, but if we're trying to win a title, I'm not sure it's the wrong answer. Simons, I would think it's at least an argument now, him and Trey. Did you see that 45-point game he had against Utah? I randomly watched that.

He was not just awesome offensively, but defensively he made the two biggest plays of the game. And Simons, I went on like a rabbit hole. I'm like, how does this guy go 24? And he's like this first wave of these IMG guys. These guys that basically skipped high school or skipped whatever college, and nobody has any idea how to even evaluate them and now this dude they got him on a good contract

i was suspicious of the stats last year because there was a bad team bad good stats bad team this is not good stats bad team stuff anymore and this guy's like a legitimate guy him and garland i, I think I would both maybe rather have over Trey. People are getting mad at this now. I don't care. Go ahead. Enjoy it. How about this? Put together a couple months of

really stable, good basketball with a happy team that I can watch on my television. Is that too much to ask? You're the franchise guy. How about one leak that takes Trey's side in all this shit the last couple of years? Cade Cunningham would be the last one, but he's been hurt all year.

But you love Cade. I love Cade. The Shin thing is very concerning. Oh, you're not even concerned. You're very concerned. Well, yeah. I mean, not like he's not going to be good anymore. I'm just saying for this year.

And I don't like guys not playing. Would you take Alvarado over Trae Young? No. Would you take Alvarado over Oscar Robertson? Different eras. I have a couple more. Is this real? Are we sure is for you?

Could you make a case? Sacramento is the sixth best team in the West. Phoenix, Golden State, New Orleans, Denver, Memphis. Is Sacramento the sixth best team?

The sixth most reliable good team night to night right now. Say it again. Phoenix, Memphis, Golden State, New Orleans, Denver so no Dallas giving you Sacramento over Dallas the Clippers and the Lakers basically

this is hard it's really struggling on this one can I make the case while you think about it? answer your own question first and let me think about this. So I'm in person Saturday. What I really like is that they know what their rotation is. They know what their identity is.

They know who they are completely. I was really impressed. I went with KOC. And granted, the Clippers were terrible. But they know, like, Sabonis, this is a real guy that we need to involve in everything we do offensively. And everybody knows how to play off from now. They always have shooters. When the bench comes in, it's Monk and Mitchell and they have a real identity. Those guys, my guy, my guy, Malik, he finally happened. What's his name? Monk. Okay. What did I say?

Just for whatever reason, you've had a hard time with his name? Monk. Okay. What did I say? Just for whatever reason, you've had a hard time with his name for you. I have a speech impediment. Yeah, Mack Monk. Yeah, I think we all have certain guys, but it's good to be back, man. Good to see you. Metu?

I like Metu. Always in the right place in the stands up. Terrence Davis, a little bit of a heat check guy. But it's interesting because they can win different ways because they can win. Like Malik could just get hot one game, right?

In the fourth quarter, take over a game. They can win with a little like Mitchell shut down somebody's defender. They've had some games with Fox who neither of us, I don't think I've really enjoyed that much over the years, but I think this year he's been good. And then they'll just have the random Sabonis-Destroy-Somebody game. And if Murray

continues to get better, there's been signs of life, I think that team's going to be good. And I wonder, would they even go further and try to move Barnes in a pick and try to upgrade that one spot and really try to make a run at

a top five spot. I personally wouldn't if I were them, but at least like if you're the Kings, you have a winning record, you're having these conversations. All of it's positive.

And yet you gave away Halliburton in that trade and that should haunt them, but it doesn't because they're fun to watch and it's a bonus matters. I went over this last week, but what do you see

from the Kings? I agree on a lot of this. The first thing you said when I watch them, it's like, how about this? They play like they've been playing together for years, that this has been a three-year thing that's finally culminated in this and it's like, well, that's not really

what it is because the Herter piece is new. Sabonis is just there last year. Sabonis just helps the rebound. They're the best defensive rebounding team in the league. He can get you in and out of a bunch of different things. I like you. And he's a good passer, right? Really like his passing. He's a really good player.

It's just that you were so shocked that somebody would get rid of a player. People don't get rid of people like Halliburton, and they don't get rid of them that early. And I can't wait to talk about the Pacers a little bit later. But I would allow myself to be at lunch with somebody from Sacramento going, hey, this is why we do it.

You know what I mean? Sometimes you get that call and you're just going, this doesn't make any sense. I don't care what you say or why you're justifying all these different things. I think at least for this, for how Sabonis fit in and not liking the trade, I can kind of get it. And it's made Fox better.

Well, hold on. That's a key point because you could argue in that trade, you have to factor in. It took whatever asset Fox was and made him more of an asset. Because for whatever reason, him and Halliburton didn't totally click and Sabonis has unleashed Fox.

So now Fox is in a better spot. I'm not defending the trade, but I do think that has to be mentioned. There you go. Right. So let's stop defending, sounding like we're defending a trade that we still don't like because we both like Halliburton so much. Yeah, it's tough. A herder is another level. And Mitchell is, you know, he's probably not more than a third guard on a really good team, which isn't, you know, the worst thing, but you see him get out there. He starts fighting with guys like he, he hit a big shot. I don't know. It was a couple of weeks ago and I was like, he's taking this

shot. Like I kind of was like, I don't really, it felt like a little early Marcus smart stuff where you're like, what are you doing? Um, but sometimes that can be like, well, at least when he goes out there, he's not apologizing for it. They also play to the, I don't know if it's a Mike Brown being on the Golden State bench. You would have thought some of this even though Mike Brown's known more as a defensive guy. By the way, their defense has really improved these last few weeks

from where it was at the beginning. They're playing through possessions. They're playing knowing, hey, keep moving. Keep moving around. Keep thinking about other guys at the end of the shot clock, as opposed to so many of these teams. It just, and they run off, they run off rebounds too. Is the other thing you're right.

They get cheap points. So we liked him before the season started. There's, there's been a, it feels like more of a correction on all the standings in general for how absurd it was the first couple of weeks. Right. Yeah. But there, there, we love their over under cause I absurd it was the first couple weeks. Right? Yeah, but we love their over-under because I think it was 34 and a half

and we were just like, this is stupid. That team has too much talent. We thought they could go 500. Yeah, I don't know what to do with the Clippers. Portland's defense has fallen off a fucking cliff. Dallas, to me, is average as hell. Golden State's going to end up being ahead of them. And then there's kind of

that Portland window. So I think they're in that Portland kind of line, whatever that is. I have them a notch up from Portland because I think Portland had a couple

fortunate wins. I think there's a world where you play this season again and Portland has four less wins. You know, and I think the Grant thing,

you know, worst case scenario, they can decide, oh, we're going to be the 10th team. They could probably flip Grant and get something better than what they gave up. They got to figure out the Sharp thing. I know you were really fascinated by the draft last year. Sharp and Daniels were, I think, two of the most compelling guys in the draft. Like, what are these guys? What are they saying? Both of these guys have really shown stuff. And I think Sharp specifically, I think he has to play. And I don't know how they reconcile that with like, how good do you want to be this year?

But I think he has to be on the floor. I, that was, I mean, Mike Schmitz goes there and he loves Sharp and, you know, I don't think people were shocked when they took him. But, that could be that if you did the redraft he might be in the top four you know so i i would just want to get him out there i also how many times can they be hurt now on that though oh okay all right perfect transition can you do that to lillard yeah i don't know. I mean, he, it's tough because he's the one guy who's like, I don't want this moving around stuff. I don't care about this big three stuff. I want to win a title in

Portland. If you can get Dane to see like, Hey, sharp two years from now, this guy might be special. We got to get him some time. Now think about when you were a rookie, maybe, maybe he'll go for it. I don't know what to make of Portland. Portland's one of those teams, like OKC's another one where you could tell me OKC's final record is 20 and 62. And you could tell me it's 39 and 43. And I would believe either. Right? Because if Shea's going to be this good night to night, how many times can Shea be the best guy in a game that has really good guys in the game before we're like, all right, this is now one of the 12 best guys in the league.

They're 11 and 13. They haven't had Holmgren all year. They have this hodgepodge, weird, long team that really doesn't make a ton of sense. And just over and over again, he's the best guy in the game. At some point, that's just kind of who you are. And I think that might be like a 35-win team. Yeah, the crazy thing about Jay is when you see him in person,

his movement on the court stands out. It just looks a little bit different than everybody else. It's like Rondo-ish. But then, it's also kind of slow at times, like Doncic. So he's almost like Doncic with the angles and then the drives, but then without the size. So then it's like,

well, how does he constantly get all these shots up the whole time? He is so good at where all the bodies are, finding the way to get the ball out. It's not the wrong foot layup stuff that Nash, which is really just brilliant. I don't know. It's the herky-jerky.

It's like a running back. He's got it all down where he's going to get past you and then when he's there amongst the trees and you think you have them you don't have them and then if you sell out to have them like you're seeing some teams do more and more like they're starting to build an sga wall with some of this stuff yeah well that actually makes it more fun for your teammates because you're like okay well if i cut or if i move or i reposition a three-point line like watching them in the atlanta game there's another game recently i don't know i was watching them and i just i feel like i get what they're trying to do

even if you're you're shocked when they win still he's that guy that in pickup you just hated guarding where you go i got him i got him no no i don't need help. I got him. And then he does this herky-jerky thing and he's by you again. You're like, I don't understand. I knew what he was going to do and he still went by me. I don't understand what just happened. All he did was he turned to the right for a split second and I went flying the other way and that was it. There's this huge

Mexican guy I keep getting matched up against. He's enormous. His torso's huge. He's shorter than me. He's not not quick it's none of that and i always have to play center now and you're center now you like a stretch five i don't know what the hell's going on but i i'm sitting there and i know everything he's going to do and he gets a shot off and he's just he's's the Mexican out of shape SGA. God. Great guy.

Let's take a break and we got to talk Tatum and Brown. It's time. We waited how many minutes? Almost 40 minutes. This is fair. When you ride transit, please be safe. Yeah, be safe. Because what you do, others will do too.

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Notice we didn't lead with this segment. We probably should have because I think it's the biggest story in the league, but people are going to say I'm a homer or whatever. I accept it. Tatum and Brown, watching last night, that Toronto game, which was my favorite Celtics win of the year so far. Third game in four nights. Also third game in four nights for Toronto, to be fair. No Horford, no Brogdon. They played overtime against Miami on Friday night, which was really like a playoff game,

especially for Miami. Miami needed it. Sunday, Brooklyn. Brooklyn kept coming at them. They put them away. And then they go to Toronto and it just feels like a loss. This is one of those, Oh, Horford's not playing. Brogdon's not playing. Toronto's annoying. This'll, they'll keep it close. Toronto put it away in the second half. So Toronto's up six at halftime. Celtics come out in third quarter and they play the hardest they've played all year. Tatum, Smart, Brown, Derek White. They're just like imposing their will on Toronto for like nine straight minutes. They end up winning the game. Toronto comes back a little. You knew they would. They end up winning the game. Blake Griffin plays. It was just so impressive. And it got me thinking

like how special this Tatum-Brown thing is and how I actually think people aren't focused on it enough where these guys, now granted, the stats are a little skewed. Right? There's more offense. I get it. They're averaging 57.5 points

a game together. And when you put that in context of like Shaq and Kobe in 2001, right? That's like the gold standard of two guys

scoring a lot of points who were fucking awesome. Shaq and Kobe were 57.2. They don't even have as much as Tatum and Brown this year. Bird and McHale at 87, 54.2. Durant and Curry, 53.3. LeBron and Wade in 2011, 52.2.

Katie and Russ in 16, 51.7. LeBron and Kyrie, 51.6. So you have this offensive bonanza of these guys. They've scored 30 plus in the same game, 16 times already this season, which is the third most time in the history of the league. Tatum's clearly a first team on BA. I think Jalen is at least right now,

a second team on BA guy. These guys are the guys that we thought Paul George and Kawhi were going to be when they went to the Clippers. We're like, Oh my God, those two guys, imagine having those two wings, two of the best players in the league.whi were going to be when they went to the Clippers. We're like, oh my God, those two guys. Imagine having those two wings, two of the best players in the league. What's that going to be like? The fucking Celtics have it.

They had it last year. They have a better version of it this year. And I still don't feel like people think of them totally that way. Maybe I'm crazy. Maybe I'm just too immersed in the season. But do you think people understand what's happening historically with these two guys?

No, because I didn't know it. I didn't know that. And I watch them all. For me, every time I watch them and going into this year, it's like whenever you put a ceiling on either one of these dudes, they come back the next year

and they go through it. And that, we always talk about, okay, how many guys can really be the number one guy on a championship winning team? Okay. How many guys? Cause that is like the rarefied air. There's nothing beyond that. And that list to me is never 10 people. Okay. It it's closer to five most years than it would be to 10. It's usually four to seven. Yeah, right. I totally agree. And at first it's like, man, Tate is pretty good.

Oh, wow. This guy could be an all-star. Okay. But is he really this? And then last year there was this flirtation with like, is he a top five guy? And I'm like, is he? And then after like they bounce KD out, he's like, oh, he gets KD's belt. You could see from the jump that this year was going to be different because the one

thing we didn't like about him in the finals was that he wasn't driving to contact well. He was getting derailed off of his path. We talked about it. You could see that he and Hanlon, from the first game, I went, okay. He had a play against the Nets this weekend, Bill, where he drove left and finished through two people and had to reverse it to get through two defenders

to get rid of it. Then comes down, has Durant, isolation, top of the key, strips him. Yeah. And you're just like, I don't say this. It takes, it has to be a couple years before I can say, you know what? The Celtics have a player in Jason Tatum

who can be the best player on a championship team. And that is maybe the best player in the league. Yeah. That's the journey for him. And the thing that's changed is how hard these guys play game to game, half to half, quarter to quarter now, and how hard Tatum plays on defense, right? That's why when he wasn't good in the Miami game on Friday, he just didn't have it. It happens. It stood out so glaringly because he's been so awesome all season. It was like, wow. It was like watching when Bird didn't have it in the mid 80s. Whoa, what happened to Tatum? Is he sick? Because you're just so used to this certain level.

There's a competitiveness with these guys that is really special. And I think stems from the finals and the Miami series too, but really the finals and the fact that they got their ass kicked. And I think these guys, they just really want it. They want it. They want to get to the top and you could feel it game to game. And like these 82 game regular seasons, it's not like the big games. It's not like the ABC warriors showdown Curry versus Tatum. Those aren't the games that tell you whether a team is potentially great.

It's the games like that Toronto game where it's like, all right, you guys could punt on this game. You'd be fine. You'd be totally within your wherewithal to third game, four nights. You're tired. Tatum's playing 37,

38 minutes a game. I get it. Tatum, Golden State probably minutes. Golden State probably punts on that game. 100%. They have the resumes. They're older.

They're over it. Tatum and Brown are at that perfect age. And Tatum, or excuse me, back to the Brown part of it. Yeah, we got to talk the Brown part too because it's so important to this. Clearly, there's a gap. His shot making,

I don't know if the handle's better. It was pretty glaring against Miami and then it felt like when everybody was really focusing in on, I don't know if this guy's better. It was pretty glaring against Miami, and then it felt like when everybody was really focusing in on, I don't know if this guy can go more than two dribbles on any kind of drive, so make sure you attack him. And it felt like it was just getting worse and worse and worse. But the shot making from him and the intensity,

the shots he was hitting again last night against Toronto, Tatum's a better player, but when there are nights where Brown is the better player, it's not surprising. And once again, whenever I thought, okay, Brown probably at best can be this. This is like four straight years of Brown where I'm going to stop pretending I ever know what the best version of him is going to be because he shattered expectations every season. Yeah. There's this narrative where now people are like, people wanted to trade one of these guys. It's like, no, did they?

Like the dumb people wanted to do it. I don't know if that was ever a real narrative. They're both two young guys that had a different point guard every year. Wait, now people were getting to the point where it was like, maybe you have to split these guys up because it's not working. Did you feel that way? I never felt like I just wanted to see them with a veteran team. I never said it has to happen because i'm never i feel like i'm never that guy like hey you have these two really good players and the league is built around wings right

now and now you want to move on from them but when it was january at its bleakest point of last season when it still is one of the greatest turnarounds you've ever seen in season smart taking shots yeah next game and i'm like what the fuck are you guys doing and they weren't fun to watch again and so then when they went on a little bit of a tear the schedule is easy the only time i'd ever said it was in that january phase i'm like we're doing this again and so i was like all right you know maybe have the conversation but never i just don't like when we kind of demand trades publicly in the media because it's like all right but what do you think you think you're getting? What's coming back? Oh, this thing's coming back that I don't want as much? Okay, I don't want to do this. Right, you're getting

DeAndre Hunter and Bojan Bogdanovic for Jalen Brown? I do think it was local. I think in Boston, man, it was kind of... I know, but that's local Boston stuff, though. I know. I'm not saying it wasn't a conversation. I'm just saying it wasn't a conversation with anyone that I knew

in a real way that was like a smart conversation because these guys were young. Tatum was 23 last year. To be like, oh, these guys can't play together because they had Kyrie and Kemba Walker and Marcus Smart. I don't know. You and I always said, what would happen if Chris Paul was on this team? Would they figure it out?

And then the answer, of course, was yes. And then the sub-answer is, well, you could say that about any team Chris Paul's on. But we knew that there were pieces there that this should make sense as a combo. Now it makes sense. I felt like Smart, by the way, last year, was a big part of the success story.

Not because of the defense, because I think he finally accepted like, yeah, I guess these guys are better than me. You're right. Jalen, 27 points, 7-4, 50% field goal, 30.9% usage. And then Tatum is 31-8-4, and and he's 32%, 32.7% usage. He's getting in the line 8.3 times a game, which you know I love. I've always wanted him to be in the eights.

Average at 9.43, he's 48% shooting. What I love is that neither of them have like crazy high usage, right? They get their shots, they'll be between like 15 and 24 shots a game, but it's never like clear out. There's not a lot of clear out stuff. The ball seems to move. And then the other thing that's really helped them is their guards on this team are just excellent. And you go from like where they were a couple of years ago to Brogdon. I mean, Brogdon, when he's on the

court, when he's healthy, like I was watching that Miami game Friday. I'm afraid to say this publicly, but I'm going to do it anyway. I was texting with my dad. I was like, I think Brogdon should have played crunch time in that Miami game over smart. As much as I love smart, I just like when Brogdon, when he's good, he presents this whole different level of problems for the other team because he can go by anybody and he's a dead eye three-pointer. He's shooting 50% from three. It's just weird to be like, yeah, we don't need this guy in this crunch-type game.

But their guard... I don't think that's that weird. I mean, it'd be weird to do it to Smart, but... They wouldn't. Smart's too important, but Brogdon should have been closing in that Miami game. And then Derek White's playing his ass off. They got Pritchard who barely plays, So there's always

guards. There's always movement. They always know what to do off fast breaks. They're rebounding well enough. Then the Hauser thing has been the other piece that they can put Hauser with one of the two guys. The lineups with Hauser are fucking bonkers, right? The plus minus stuff. They just have this guy in the corner

now who you have to guard, which opens up all this space. Nobody realizes that he actually holds up okay as a defender. Whenever a new team gets him, it's so funny. By the way, obviously it's because it's a white guy. It was happening to A.J. Green the other night. It was Aaron Green

from Milwaukee got in the game. It was like, hey, new guy. We got a ginger in here. Fresh fish. It's so fucking funny. Your favorite is when teams attack guys who are way better defenders than the teams realize because obviously

they didn't scout the guy correctly. Hauser's not Kevin McHale, but he's not terrible and he kind of knows where to go and what to do and he gets his hands up. He's not a disaster. Yeah, sometimes that'll happen with the Celtics where it's like, wait, you switched into this. You wanted this over what you had. Like, I think teams get so incredibly screen happy that there'll be dumber teams that is like, all we've been doing is screen and then start the offense.

It's like, no, you had the matchup you wanted. Why did you, why did you switch into something that's way worse for you? And I think it's like no you had the matchup you wanted why did you why did you switch into something that's way worse for you and i think it's kind of a habit thing though but boston by the way the other crazy part of this is the defense is average and they're 20 and 5 and yeah it's probably going to get better and the half court offense according to cleaning the glass is the number one half court offense they were 10th in that last season. And you can see it. The connectivity with these dudes, like the possession, there's just so many different ways

they can attack you. And then when you try to switch, when you try to, like, other than, you know, some of the lesser guys in the rotation, switching, getting the Celtics to switch isn't always like, oh, cool, now I have this. Like, switching on to... Now I have Malcolm Brockton.

Great. Right. Now I have to go at him. I have Grant Williams on me. Like, wait, did I have this. Now I have Malcolm Brockton. Great. Now I have to go at him. I have Grant Williams on me. Wait, did I want this? It's a scary team, man. They're better.

They're just better than they were last year for a bunch of different reasons. It's not a flu-caught star team. Their offensive rating is still 120. Their true shooting, which is a stat I don't love, but anytime it's over 60, you have to pay attention. It's 62.7. Tatum's over 60 this year. Yeah. They're almost 50,

40, 85 for splits, 49.4 field goal, 40.2, 3.84% free throw. They have five guys in the top 17 for three point percentage. Tatum's on off stats. He's 13.6.

Um, Grandy had a couple good stats. Grandy said through 25 games, Boston has been down 10-plus points for 67 of the 1,215 minutes. And 55 of those minutes were the two Chicago games. In their last 60 games, they're 48-12, according to Grandy,

plus 12.1 scoring margin. They're 24 and 7 on the road, which is another thing with this team. This team loves playing on the road as long as it's not Chicago with Mark Davis. And then I thought this was interesting. Tatum's worst three games this year. He doesn't play against Washington. DMP, Jalen has 36. The Miami game Friday night, he's 5 for 18.

He's terrible. Jalen has 37. The New Orleans game, he he's 5 for 18. He's terrible. Jalen has 37. The New Orleans game, he's bad in that game. He's 6 for 18. Jalen puts up a 27, 10, 7. These guys have a knack for if one guy kind of sucks, the other guy gets better. It's like they're attuned with each other.

And I think they're all in on each other. I think those guys love each other. They're all in. And they want to win a title together. So I would say through the 25 game mark, this could not have gone better from where it was in June, where it's like, Jesus Christ.

Like what is this team? Was this too soon? Is that, did that finals, is it going to break Tatum? What like today, did the Miami golden state figure out some way to stop this? I was in dark places in July.

Now it's fine. I want to ask you a question. Yeah. Does Ainge deserve more credit? Oh, I love this. This is a great coming up next. I'm going to tell you who deserves all the credit for the Celtics turnaround and he's not with the team

and he might be in Salt Lake I think Ainge does deserve a ton of credit I mean more for being patient with those two guys when everybody was trying to trade Jalen remember for Paul George that one year we had that I think Ainge wanted toalen remember for Paul George that one year we had that

I think Ainge wanted to trade him for Paul George by the way but Paul George wasn't going to stay maybe it was Paul George that didn't want that trade no I think he drafted really well and even somebody like Pritchard that guy's an NBA player Rob Williams, Grant Williams

those guys are NBA players, did a good job that's what I never understood about it like when you're thinking about the most important things like okay you're a parent yeah I am like if your kid gets a full ride to Harvard but he also leaves the hose on

like those aren't the same things it's not one good thing and one bad thing so A.C earl doesn't equate to the jaylen brown pick ac earl that ac earl uh who's the guy so my point would be this like yeah romeo langford huge whiff i didn't get the pick either at the time it's not going to be good ange moved out of the number one pick when everyone was going to take Fultz and grabbed another pick and gut Tatum.

Okay? That's getting a full ride to Harvard. Taking Lankford, maybe it's more than leaving the hose on, but I just never understood why it was like a one-for-one for every argument about Ainge. Where, yeah, all right, he had some misses. Maybe he had some more than you should have. Usually, they were a little bit later.

Also, the Kyrie trade was totally defensible. And in retrospect, a really good trade for a superstar for what they gave up. For what they gave up? Yeah, they gave up that eighth pick in the draft and a bunch of stuff. Zizic, is he in there too? By the way, when I said ACRL, I meant Fab Mello. It would have been so much funnier if I had landed the Fab Mello plain joke. Rest in peace.

For some reason, I got AC Earl and Fab Mello. I got my terrible center draft picks confused. I kind of understand how you did it, but then I thought, was there a joke that I'm not understanding here? I don't know how many other guys would have done that, and he did it for now somebody who is a top five player in the NBA. He did it for a top five player in the NBA like he did it for a top five player in the NBA that that to me is where like I don't care if you

fuck up 10 more picks in the 20s yeah that's what I think the math is on that all NBA first team I asked you to make your to do your top two teams so granted we're only 25 24 25 games in this season

this is not a reflection of how this season is going to play out. It's a nice snapshot for, all right, who are the 10-12 guys that have mattered the most so far? I had my first team, Davis, Tatum, Giannis, Curry, Booker as my five. Did you have the same five? Okay, say it again. I was not ready. Davis, Tatum, Giannis, Curry, Booker. And then my second team, Jokic, Jalen Brown, Durant, SGA, and Luka. And those are my top two teams.

And I think those are completely 100,000% defensible. There's a John Morant how does he not get on one of those two teams question that you just have to tell me who's he bumping between Curry and Booker and SGA and Luka and I'll wait. Okay.

I did three teams just to see, like take myself through the exercise. I have a third team as well. Okay. I had Luca over Booker. If you want to tell me that it's Booker because the team is better, I'm not going to tell you you're wrong,

but you know, Luca's doing insane shit, but like Booker's been on a tear too. To me, it's a coin toss. So I had Booker second. I think it's a coin toss. I went with the wins because there's some really bad body language Dallas games this year that I didn't like. I don't really like Dallas all that much.

I'm not interested in watching him play anymore. By the way, that's on brand for us. We didn't like the Harden Rockets. We didn't like the Westbrook OKC. We don't like the 39% usage rate everybody stands around him. So to say that we would then like it with Luka would be insane. I think he's a brilliant player, but I don't really enjoy watching the Mavs. I don't think that's a hot take. Isolation stats are always a little tricky in the way they're tracked. But if

you try to find all that stuff, they'll tell you that. And I think it becomes a finishing thing, like how many possessions are true isolation, nobody else touches the ball, and you finish in isolation. And I think they end up with like 40% more true isolation plays than the next best team. The Luka part that was fun is his ability to do everything, like those Clippers series, right? That he could do.

But over the course of a regular season game, even though the numbers are great, like I already know, like I already know what a Dallas game is. Like I actually don't have to watch Dallas games. I'd be like, I feel the exact same way. I watched recently just because I wanted to see Josh Green again. For the most part, I get it. They're going to play really slow. He's going to have the ball time.

What does he have the ball? 10 minutes a game? Was that sad? It's like 10.2 minutes a game. Luka just has the ball out of the 48 minutes. It's something like 25% of the game he has the ball. So anyway, I think the Booker thing is defensible. So you have AD, Tatum, Giannis, Curry, and Luka as your first team. I have AD, Tatum, Giannis, Steph, Luka. Okay, so what's your second team?

Because I had Jokic, Jalen, Durant, SGA, and Luka. But you probably have Booker in the Luka spot. I have Booker in the Luka spot. Again, it's a complete coin toss. I have SGA. I thought about Ja. I thought about Mitchell. Hey, those teams are both better than SGA right now,

but this SGA tear is kind of another level. Although Mitchell at the beginning of the year, you know what I mean? I really didn't want to leave because I just feel like Mitchell was my 16th guy last year. But again, for the votes that matter. So none of this matters right now. KD clearly, when you watch KD

and see how other teams sell out to stop him, it gets really fun seeing what he it's like, okay, cool. There are teams that go crazy trying to stop him with double teams, just ignoring somebody else. And he's still putting up these kinds of numbers. And also, just not forget about the off-the-court stuff with Kyrie.

It just doesn't seem, on the court, Kyrie is the same guy anymore. He's more likely to go seven for 21 in a game than he is to go 14 for 20. Yeah. It's not taking 10 days off in between games. Like last year when he's going on that scoring run, nobody's pointing out. You're like, actually, do you know how amazing it would be to have to play once every 10 games?

How fresh you would be? I want to talk about this quick and then we'll go back to the second team. I'm so fascinated by what they're doing with the Blake Griffin thing. It's like my favorite random strategy of the year where he just plays once a week for 25 minutes, 20 to 25 minutes. Like you're doing a run in Manhattan beach. It's like, where's your run? It's on Tuesdays. Oh really? Who are you playing with? The Celtics. Yeah. I play a little backup center for them. Oh, cool. Then what do you do the other days? Yeah, I just rest my knees.

Yeah, the professional team? Yeah. Then the other days, I just work on my knees and just do conditioning. Then Al Horford, sometimes he doesn't play, so they'll need me. Then I get to go. I have a couple younger guys in Bostonoston like do you have

any connect with him i'm like what do you mean lake griffin do you just want to blindly text him and say what's up what's up like i can't do that i can't i can't make that connection happen and they were kind of like no no if he like wants to go out or if he wants to hang out or whatever and these are like these are good guys to hang out with. Yeah. So I was like, are you doing this because of his schedule? You're right. Yeah. Thursdays, he's off.

He's like, dude, he's probably not playing tomorrow. Well, Dallas should do this with Kemba. Like Kemba, if you're expecting Kemba to play three days a week, good luck. But if he's once a week, 25 minutes a game, it's like Kemba early in the week, every week, you're going to be our third guard. We're going to play 25 minutes. Just be ready for that game. It'll actually be pretty good. Anyway, back to the second team.

So you have. So yeah, I've got Booker, SGA, KD, AD. And then the forwards are going to be weird this year. And I think the Jalen thing with last year, he was a two guard. He's still listed as a guard on some of the stuff, but you're right. He's a forward. He's the pick. He's the pick

over Zion. He's the pick over LeBron. DeRozan is going to have a case here. If you start looking at the third team stuff, it feels like DeRozan. No, I'm talking third team. There's a guy you haven't mentioned yet.

The guy in Utah. No, I'm talking 13. There's a guy you haven't mentioned yet. The guy in Utah. No, I worked on marketing on others. The guy that we've had some stock from the past. I think marketing, I had for 13. I sold mine. You sold it? Yes. Embiid, Zion, either marketing or LeBron.

And it'll be LeBron, the more games he plays. And then jaw and Halliburton over Mitchell. But I think Halliburton versus Mitchell is a battle. Anyway, this. Okay. But hold on one other forward though. If Pascal keeps playing this year, the way he's playing. Yeah.

He missed some games. That's the only reason he's already missed 10 games. That's why I'm not bringing them up. Um, so I, I gotta say, I wrote down Mobley. Because... Coutinho? The stuff Mobley's doing as a two-way guy, I think has to...

You know, if that team ends up winning 55 games, he'll be one of the biggest reasons, if not the biggest reason. And I think he'll go up as it rises. I don't think he's a 13-am NBA guy, but I think he's... I had Bam, Mobley, Mitchell, Fox, Sabonis, LeBron, Simons, a bunch of those

guys. He's at least in that group. If I had to do a third team today, Bam would be the center, only because Embiid's missed eight games. But that's because Embiid's missed eight games. If Embiid's missed four, whatever. Well, you'll be happy to know that I went through.

Let's assume this holds. You never know. But Tatum ends up being a first team guy and Jalen's the second time. How many times has this happened this century? Same team, first team, second team, two guys. LeBron and AD. Curry and KD.

Curry and Draymond in 2016. I forgot that one. Russ and KD a couple of times, CP3 and Blake a couple of times. True or false, Kobe and Andrew Bynum? True. Yeah, true. LeBron and Wade, Kobe and Gasol, Shaq and Wade, KG and Sam Cassell and then Shaq and Kobe so it's only happened 11 times and Shaq and Kobe had two both were on the first team which is just iconic I mean there was

three years there where they were two of the best three guys in the league at the same time on the same team but anyway that would be a good thing if how many times like ranking the champions based on the same team. That would be a good thing. How many times ranking the champions based on how high their cumulative top

three guys were in comparison to the rest of the league? Well, Bird and McHale in the 86 title, I think by the end of that season, McHale was the fourth best guy in the league. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Big three, but for the title winning teams. What I don't need is...

I did this rant years ago on the big three content. I go like, at some point when it's a Pacers team with 30 wins, we don't need to know who their big three are. Although... Fair. Although they do have one this year. Did you watch Nembhard last night? I did. Did you have a chance to?

Did you see Carlisle after the game where he called out Hoops Hype? He said if there was a Hoops Hype redraft, he would have gone to the top 15, but now it's got to be top 10. Carlisle, who never says anything. He never says anything. Like literally has never had an interesting soundbite in his life. That was the most interesting thing he's ever said. But yeah, where did this guy...

So were you focused on him in the draft? I remember watching him at the Combine. And I mean, look, Florida, he was good. He goes against Aga. And then he's at the Combine. And the thing that was really telling was that he was making these great passes. Everybody kept fucking it up.

So that might be the new thing is who's really good at the Combine who nobody does any of these finishes. I think a part of it's a body type thing. He's not the fastest guy. He destroyed Golden State last night. Like it was a perfect game. He did everything right.

And they were all big buckets, too, on top. Because you kept going, hey, Golden State's going to win this game. They're going to figure it out. No Albert, no Turner. Nembhard, you know, LeBron, I was kind of unfair, I thought, when I posted this video of LeBron losing Nembhard entirely on that game where a week ago.

I thought it was fair. I like it. I know you did. Because I think he kind of closed out on what was the easier thing to do because it's way easier. And then he still tried to close out. But if LeBron kind of forgot who Nembhard was,

I don't know that I can entirely blame him. I wish... Look, there's no Pacers-Golden State game that's going to be the TNT prime timer. It's not going to be a Saturday ABC game. I wish more people could have seen what he did last night because it was fucking special.

And the Pacers got something. It was two things. One is it made me rethink the Indiana thing and what they should do this year and just what they have asset-wise. The other thing is it was pretty alarming if you're Golden State that there's a specific type of player

that you just can't defend because it's not just Nembhard. There's other guys that can do stuff like that. And I think if you're looking at them for playoffs this year, there's a certain type of guard that I think can get whatever they want against Golden State.

And that's, that's what I think they need to figure out because they have trade assets that to me, they make the most Caruso sense of any team, but they, they need somebody like that for those moments where it was like, we can't stop this guy. I think they thought Moody was going to be the guy for them with those.

Potentially. It's not happening. Moody's been bad. No, he plays, plays hit or miss in certain games. It's not happening in 2023, him guarding somebody like that anymore.

Oh, no, no. I'm just talking like bigger picture of the whole thing. I think the biggest golden state issue has been all the young guys collectively. Like I thought one would pop and it's right. They went over for four. Yes.

Anthony lamb going to be the best. Shout out to UVM. Did you, or I ordered you a shirt. Are you still a medium Pacers? Basketball makes me nem heart. Let's take one more break. I want to talk Indiana quick and then we got to do Anthony Davis

or else the Laker fans will get mad at us. All right, quickly on Indiana. So I was messing around with the trade value list and Hal Burton's down in the top 20. They have one rookie 41, your guy who you were touting big time. Nembhard's got to be honorable mention now. They have Heald and Turner

who are at least something, whether they want to spin those guys or make those guys part of their rotation. Kind of like their bench. To me, it's like, I actually wouldn't do the Heald-Turner trade. I might go the other way and try to add somebody and try to get like a six or a seven seed in the weird East because I have good guards. I want them to be in good games and get experience. I like Indiana is my point. I think Utah, you can make the case Utah should actually go the other way because I don't really see a future for them. I think their guys have real value. Like Conley, I think, has real value.

I think Olenek could really help somebody. If they wanted to trade Clarkson, I think they could get something really good for him. But Indiana is younger, and I would not go for Wemby if I were them. I would actually try to be good. What would you do? Let's go back two years ago to the over-unders.

When we came to the Pacers, if there was one rule that you would talk about in NBA circles with guys about coaching, all those years where the Mavs weren't that talented, he'd be like, look at Rick Carlisle again. Look at this team. Fighting, hanging around. They're going to be in the playoffs.

He's got this team that's competitive. You're like, how is he doing it? And multiple NBA people would be like, man, if I could, Rick Carlisle can coach so we did it last year I was like oh I'm taking the over the team doesn't look like it's going to be that good give me give me the Rick Carlisle factor they went 25 and 57 so going into this year I'm like okay well you know how good are they actually going to be? And they haven't had Duarte the whole time. Yeah, what happened to him?

It's just hurt. Yeah, Duarte, if you threw him in this too, now all of a sudden they could do a whole bunch of small ball stuff. I'm with you on Carlisle. It always seemed inconceivable that he was just going to sit there for four years and tank every year. But last year, they were really bad. Now, I don't know.

I think they're fun to watch. If you're comparing them to the other teams in the East. I don't know. You go like Washington, Atlanta, like all the teams in that group. I don't really feel like they're much better or much worse. I'll be interested to see what they do. They also have guys like Turner's in a contract year. Turner's going to be playing really hard down the stretch.

This will be the best version we've ever had of him January to April. One quick thing on Turner. Depending on where this goes, because if the Pacers ended up being like, hey, they're actually barely hanging on for the playing game, as much as we like so much of this team.

But again, we like so much of it based on what the expectations were, right? That's not going to be surprising. Turner's defense on Jokic this year in that game, I imagine it's just the one time they've played. Whatever it was, the one I watched, it was so impressive. I don't know if he was mad at him. I don't know if he was trying to increase his trade value,

but it was so good. And I'm just talking like the effort of making things hard. Cause like at the end of the day, like when you were like, Hey, he does a pretty good job against Giannis. You're like, Hey,

30 and 17. It's like, okay. Yeah. But like all these guys still end up getting their numbers. It's how much effort. It's like the pitch count thing. Like,

okay. Did you throw a hundred easy ones or 80 brutal ones where it was high leverage situations the entire time? Like, yeah, it's not the pitch count thing. Like, okay, did you throw 100 easy ones or 80 brutal ones where it was high leverage situations the entire time? Like, it's not the same. So that's what you have to do to start players, just make them work a little bit more.

It made me think that depending on how the Pacers go, if you're a playoff team that maybe doesn't like their matchup with Denver, that's the kind of defense that Jokic, or at least Turner,

played on Jokic for one night. Well, I mean, that would be Golden State. Out of anybody. They have the contracts that match them, all that stuff. I'm with you. Yeah, if I'm Indiana, I'm 13 and 11. I already have, I have a seven and a half game lead on Detroit. I have a six game lead on Detroit. I have a six game lead on Charlotte and I have an eight and a half game

lead out of Orlando. And that's before we get to know, um, four, three and a half games out of Chicago, two ahead of New York. I'm two at a Washington. I don't see a roadmap for them being one of the worst three teams in the conference at this point, unless like they just benched Halliburton right now. I just think they're, they're probably like around a 500 team. So if that's the case, maybe, maybe spruce it up.

All right, let's talk AD. I have a hot take. This is kind of why they traded all the picks for AD. Everybody celebrated the AD resurgence the last two weeks. Didn't they give away like 100 first round picks, lottery picks for this guy? Didn't he make the All-NBA Top 75?

Like, I mean, he's been awesome. And I'm like psyched that we have another great NBA player again. But people are acting like he's like Lazarus rising from the dead. It's like, guy's 29. This is kind of what we wanted. I think it said more about how much he had fallen as an asset to all of us that we were just like, what is this guy? What's happening?

Now he's like around the rim. They figured out how to unleash him. So on the one hand, it's like, this is great. They reignited Davis. We have another great basketball player. On the other hand, I'm like, this is great. They reignited Davis. We have another great basketball player. On the other hand, I'm like, where the fuck was this the last two years? So I'm pretty conflicted about it. And also they played a shitty schedule.

So can he stay healthy for a month? Here we go. Can he stay healthy for a month? One month. Let's see it for a month. What do you got? I feel like you found a way to make something amazing negative okay fair because let's face it if you had a draft everyone you're most worried

when they fall down he's the number one pick the entire league well let me think about this hold on who are my other candidates yeah my other candidates bull bull candidates. Bull Bull. No, Embiid. I think Embiid is a strong number one in this. Yeah, but he's not a number one pick over Anthony Davis. No, he's a number two. Who's number one?

That's probably Anthony Davis. It is Anthony Davis. Yeah, so Embiid number two. Who's the third? Ja? Ja Landing is number three. Ja had a play. There was some play where he's at the free throw line like 10 days ago and he had to miss the second one and he threw it off the rim. And then he just dove. It was like watching Ed Reed dive over a pile to stop like a fourth and one. And he just dove sideways in the two guys and it was a lane violation. And I like, if I ran Memphis, I would just take jaw and I

would just show him that clip. I'm like, you just can't do this. Right. Here's, can we show you some Derek Rose clips from 2010, 2011, when he's everyone was saying, Derek, don't do this. And then the worst possible thing happened. I hope that doesn't happen to Ja, obviously. But there's a recklessness that you can't, there's this one piece that they just have to turn off in his brain that I haven't seen them been able to turn off. He really makes me nervous. Zion four, Boban five.

Boban. Yeah, Zion's a good one. Anyway, Davis, I'd love to see him stay on the court the whole year I do think they figured out how to get him around the rim which was the thing that was missing and they're really trying to get him in the paint around the rim which is where he always

should have been he's made some jumpers and the teams they played weren't that good with all that said he was incredible in the Milwaukee game the Milwaukee game was like such a legitimate statement. Oh my God. Like this team went toe to toe with a Bucks team that was playing pretty hard and pretty well and was at home. And that was what made me wonder like, shit. I mean, if they traded those two picks, the West is wide open. If they got somebody awesome, who knows? They can just keep Davis like this for six months.

I'm just dubious. That's fine. I just think we're all happy because at worst, when he's right, at worst, he's a top 10 player. Yeah, I would say he's top five or six, right? When he's going, it's just been way too long and you know part of it is why do you why are you so insistent on this power forward thing you're not staying healthy and they're trying to do that and they've just abandoned i think that's why they didn't bring in another big

so they have no option yeah you know you're right you don't even have the option to demand that we put in this other guy to play next to you and guess what's happening like there's more space for him but his mid-range numbers are down big time last two seasons 23 percent of his field goal attempts were mid-range this year it's 12 so as you would expect he's around the rim more it's led to these dominant performances that milwaukee game last week is one of my favorite games of the season because the energy the lakers played with yeah I know the schedule's easier whatever and like Westbrook not being a net negative is just a positive like the turnover that he forced and then hung on to it that was like the play of the game and when Westbrook is doing some of that stuff like Westbrook looks like he's finally having fun again for the first time in well over a year doesn't mean I want him doesn't mean I think it's all going to work out and he's awesome

again it's just like it's way better than it was. Look, I think even Lonnie Walker has played better for them. Reeves is like a real rotation guy. So Davis being this good again, this was always my argument last year. As bad as this Lakers thing has been, if Davis is Davis, then you still have a really special player. And so I'm happy to see it because I felt like people forgot it or maybe thought it was never going to happen again.

And I'm not... I know how hurt he is. He's probably going to get hurt again at some point. But when he's right, he's an incredible player. And it's made the Lakers thing far more interesting, even though I know you probably enjoyed watching him being, what, 3-12 to start the season?

I actually think this is more interesting. Because I still, as much as I can't stay in the Lakers, I'm still going to default toward, oh, this is awesome, we have this guy averaging 35-15 for two straight weeks. I think the thing that I can't wrap my head around or understand is the Westbrook piece of this. And we'll see what happens against Cleveland tonight.

We're taping it before that. But he's re-engaged. or understand is the Westbrook piece of this. And we'll see what happens against Cleveland tonight. We're taping it before that. But he's re-engaged. He's got like a little bit of a swagger back, but it's not like there was like an unintentional comedy swagger with him before where it was like he was trying to do rough stuff, but it's like your team sucks and you're not good either.

Like, stop it. But now there's a couple of plays where Davis would have a thing and Westbrook's already spinning around as Davis is about to score, like pointing to the crowd. And it just seems like he feels like he's on the team. And I think he plays pretty well with Davis from what I've seen. I think they figured out when LeBron's not out there,

that those guys have a little bit of chemistry together. So they were able to unleash that with the, there's some more movement. If you notice more movement with them, I thought what they did against Milwaukee was awesome. They were running these like really tight area switches with LeBron and ad was almost like, okay, we don't have the spacing that we want. We don't have the other things that we normally want. Let's just make it about you and I, and let's get, you know, because they don't, they probably don't want to leave Brooke on you. Then they were doing something

where they're taking Giannis off so he could come over and help to whatever act and it kept working over and over again. They ran under the right side. They ran on the left elbow and it was just a LeBron 80 thing where they weren't using a ton of space to do it. They were doing a really confined area. So like whatever the decision was, it was quick

and it wasn't in front of you and it was really good. It kept working. The latest part of this is, well, go ahead, go ahead. Well, I was just saying they figured out how to use the space that everybody was giving to Westbrook. They figured out how to leverage it into somewhat of an advantage, right? If you're giving him more space like that, he actually has more time now. He has space and height to see cutters. And if there's movement, he can actually find cutters now. So before it was like,

should I shoot? What do I do now? It's like, no, they're giving you that space, like be a creator, try to find people. And it's kind of worked. And then they're running after everything. That's the other thing with Westbrook. Like they're just telling them like fast break, go. And they're getting cheap points. I've been interested in the lebron piece of this too because this is great for lebron right especially during the regular season lebron has kind of moved into this early 90s magic johnson role with ad right he's just like a facilitator creator um it's three-point shootings a little bit better than i think the start of the season was really bad but in in general, I think he sees like, all right, let's ride this guy for a couple months, get his confidence going.

And Davis went toe-to-toe with Yadis and was better than him. And how many guys can you say in the league? Could you say that about right now? Right? It's less than five. So if you're the Lakers, I don't know.

West is open. You have picks to trade. You kind of know what you need. It's not inconceivable. It wasn't conceivable when they were 2-10. I think this is an incredible story. To say I wrote them off was the understatement of all time. It looked like Davis just was done as an impact basketball player. It didn't seem like Davis gave a shit. I could never get there because he's still

on the right side of third even though with all the injury history part of it that was annoying too is like why are you taking these shots like why that's what I couldn't get by why is he taking 18 footers is this just who he's morphing into I don't like this version yeah he got it back to be fair like to

go back the other way as you're getting older and now you're battling at the rim I just if he had been 35 and these were the injuries, okay, fine. I think you are a little quicker to write off people because of injuries where I keep more of an open mind. Yeah, I think you're right. Can I add?

I think you're right. Yeah, and it doesn't mean I'm right, by the way. Our approaches are different with that because when Lillard, I don't know. I'd expect that he's going to get healthy, and when he's playing, it's going to be really good. The difference is how long is he going to stay healthy? As you pointed out, he just got back again, and

now what? The same concern you have. I want to see Anthony Davis who at one point looked like a top five player look like that again, and this has been fucking awesome to see. That's where I'm at with it. Can I ask you one question? Do you know, 39 playoff games for him.

Total career. Four first-team All-NBAs. Two first-team All-Defenses. He's had four, this will be his fourth 25-10 season if he keeps it going. It's been, for what the potential was,

I still think disappointing and I think he needs this season. Like the best thing career-wise, big picture, how we would think about him long-term is for him to kick ass for this entire season. And you go back and you think about like, people like,

the people, previous generation, C-Web, you know, Dirk, like they all had to have. There was all a moment when they kind of had to put it together in some way. And you

could say it was the bubble season for Davis, but I'm not... It kind of feels like it's this season. Because the bubble, there was weird stuff with that, but also like, you know, LeBron was still the best player on the team. This feels like this is the Davis, like where Weber was in 2001 with Sacramento, where it's like, oh my God, you finally

did it. You're one of the five best players in the league, your first two-ball NBA. That's what I think is at stake for him even more than the playoff stuff. What was your question? People want to take Davis off the 75- man list. That's a bad guy. Like, hey, we're pissed. We're pissed he's on the top 75. So this is why I feel good for him. My question is this. Do you know who has the second most shot attempts per game in the NBA?

Player? Yeah, player. Trae Young? Not a terrible guess. But he's third. Who is it? Luka's one. LeBron is two.

Really? LeBron's taken his most shots per game since 2006, although this year's number just slightly ahead of last year's number. Wow. It's the lowest field goal percentage he's had since 2004. Jesus.

Yeah, 21.9 field goal attempts a game. But he's not going to get to the line in the same way anymore. He's 4.6 this year. Interesting. Now, the rebounding numbers, like whenever you're looking at the older guy and trying to, because I think we're starting to see some of the decline from him.

I thought we started to see some of it last year, which again, really, it doesn't, it depends on how you feel about lebron but like the fact is he'll be 38 this month and he's doing what he's doing is this is all positive this is all positive i'm just telling you like there's a little line of decline that i thought i was seeing last year i remember sitting next to somebody with a front office of another team i was like you think he's slowing down at all then i think he threw down like a windmill over two guys the guy looked at me like i was the biggest asshole in the world i was like cool good hanging out um but i still feel like i was right and i feel like i'm seeing it

again now and it's just it was crazy to me to think like he's he's never shot it more in 16 years let's say the last two years he's never shot it more and yet this year look who knows maybe you know he's gonna spike he's gonna hit these he's still a ton more and yet this year look who knows maybe you know he's going to spike he's going to hit these he's still a ton to deal with but i saw somebody be like well what if you're getting peak lebron and peak eight well peak lebron doesn't exist anymore you know peak ad maybe does but maybe that's so then it started to turn around with because of their their record what they've been like what what could you possibly think the Lakers could do? And I'm like, the fact they're even competitive right now

is the win, based on what we thought this was, where we thought it was going. And that maybe they were going to have the pick that ended up being Wimbanyama. LeBron could still be physically imposing. So as long as he has that, even though I agree there's been some slippage, if you could add one player to this team,

who would you add? Like, one reasonably available player. Oh, that's available? I thought we were doing a make-believe thing. Turner actually doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Trae Young? Trae Young. It's probably a point guard, right? it's probably a point guard right it's probably a smart guard like it's

is it like i'd really think conley if conley was my guy you know who would have been nice for them was um mcdonough vich detroit mcdonough vich because he can he can do more than just shoot like he can put it on the floor a little bit for you. That guy can score. At one point, I think in that Pacers-Celtics series, he was the number one option for them offensively, which nobody's making posters about that. Yeah, Bogdanovich would have been nice. Who's winning the Super Bowl?

I still am all in on the Bills. I think their loss is a fumble in the end zone, a statistical anomaly that hadn't happened in like 70 years against the Dolphins. Allen was hurt against the Jets. I'm still on. I think they're the best team, and I think he's right there with Mahomes,

the best quarterback. I still like Mahomes slightly better. I have those three bunched together now. I want to see more next week. Cincy, Buffalo, and KC. I like all those teams, though. I like Philly. I want to see more next week. Cincy, Buffalo, and KC. I like all those teams, though. I like Philly. I'm on the Philly thing.

Last week changed my mind. Yeah, it changed my mind, too. That was impressive. They are clearly the best NFC. There's probably eight teams, but there's really four. How about college? Who's winning college?

I don't know how anybody of the other three teams can handle what Georgia is on the defensive line, even with half of the guys missing from last year. So I can't get Michigan, I can't get Michigan-Georgia out of my head from last year because I wanted to give Michigan a little bit more of a chance. I thought that they had a front that physically was pretty good defensively, so maybe it wasn't the highest scoring game,

and then it looked like two different teams completely when that happened. And Ohio State's more talented than Michigan, but are they tougher? They didn't seem like they were tougher when they got smoked in the second half at home to them. And TCU has been one of the best stories. They've been the most tested week to week. Not because necessarily opponent, but every week with them, even though you didn't really like their defense.

To see them lose to K-State when K-State had their quarterback settled, they played three guys and they lost to them in the regular season. I'm glad TCU's there. I'm upset USC isn't. I'm happy with the four teams, but I always default to talent. I don't know the four teams, but I always kind of default to talent, man.

I don't know that those other teams are as talented. Aaron Judge calls you and says, what team should I sign with? What do you tell him? What are we doing? Rapid Fire? This is like the diehards. 15-10 the zone. Close out the day. I just haven't talked to you in a while.

I wanted your opinions on things. Who do you tell them? Because I have a specific answer on this. Okay. Look, you and I are the same on this. Like when I used to see the Yankee hat, it made me mad. Yeah. It just made me mad.

Like I felt a certain way, even though it's the coolest fucking logo and it's the coolest hat ever. It just is. Okay. I think we, can you admit that? It's a solid hat. I don't like it. It's a solid hat. It's the coolest fucking hat ever. It just is. Can you admit that? It's a solid hat. I don't like it. It's a solid hat.

It's the coolest fucking hat ever. I'll never wear one ever. I would want to stay with the Yankees. Why do I want to go somewhere else? I think he should go to the Giants. Why? I think he could be... Check.

Him and Curry could be the guys in San Francisco. And I think the Giants need a face. It's a cool team. The park's cool. He's in the Bay Area. He could do the same stuff Durant and Curry did, where you get in on all these little IPOs and you get little stakes and things.

You go meet all these rich people and just go to the National League and you just change your situation. I don't see the Yankees thing. It kind of peaked last year for him, right? They have a weird ownership situation. I don't know. I love the change of scenery from it.

You could be the guy on the West coast. Like, do you feel like he was the guy in New York? Well, we were only a couple of years removed from like, can Aaron judge save baseball? Right. It certainly didn't happen. No, it didn't. Cause I don't know that anybody saves baseball.

I would go, but I'm saying this as a Red Sox fan, but I think it feels like the Giants fan would be the coolest move. Just got our Giants move would be the coolest move. Just got, or Giants move would be the coolest move. Just going back to the Yankees. Like, all right, guys, let's run it back.

And you just know he's going to like hurt his oblique, you know, a week later. Giants would be fun. Yeah, but when you have the equity built up, when you have the equity built up already,

I get it. With that city. But they didn't take care of him though. All they have to do is take care of him now. I guess. White Lotus? All in. All fucking in. I'm watching them

live week to week. I can't wait. I love this show so much. I love this show. We keep trying to get Mike White on, but I know he doesn't like doing stuff. So who dies in the last episode? Okay, so let's run through the suspects. I don't think it could be Cameron because that's his wife, right?

That's in the water who sees the body. So even if it's a decomposed version. She'd be way more upset of seeing her husband in the water. Unless she killed him and was pretending to be upset. Okay. And it seems to be a white body, right? Yep. Yes. So, does it rule out

Imperioli's family who have a darker olive Sicilian skin? Darker tone. Yeah. Fair. The Degrassos. Although, decomposing body, been in the salt water, but again, it's a vacation. Gets a little water, but it's been a vacation. I mean, you know, so I've been going body type male and then relationship to it all. It could be.

I don't think they'd have Coolidge's character lose. I don't think she loses in the end of the season because she's a sympathetic figure. And I don't know that the show would want to lose that attachment. So I'm going to guess it's her husband from Napoleon Dynamite because they end... Cowboy Greg? Right. So they end the last episode

realizing the whole twist is that the fancy boys from Palermo are all the main guys connected to her husband as she sees the picture in classic television storytelling. So I don't think she would lose. I think she'll find a way to like get back at the husband for trying to fuck her over.

So you think it's Cowboy Greg in the water? That's my guess. You? But they say bodies. They do say bodies. In the first episode, she says there's bodies. I know say bodies. In the first episode she says there's bodies. I know. I know. So that's what I don't

know what to make of it. Do you think the DeGrasso's take out the pimp? No, I think the DeGrasso's have been established as kind of betas. They didn't really handle it well with the, when the car, getting followed by the car. They were like, cool, yeah, you should go with them. I don't know. They didn't really handle it well with the, when the car,

getting followed by the car. They were like, cool, yeah, you should go with them. I don't know. I don't think they step up. Wait,

so you think they're betas because they didn't get out and fight a pimp in a penchman in an Italian roadside? I just think they established themselves as they want no part of any of this. So why would they get involved

in episode seven? They just told me in episode six they're not getting involved. They're out. What do you think of the show? Tell me what you like about it. I love it. We've been,

Joanne and I have been breaking it down on Prestige every week and it's like the most fun 45 minutes of my week. I love it. I just, it's like a sex crazed weirder version of season one,

which I also loved. But I really, the most, the thing I love the most is Italy. You're just going to have to go. You're just going to have to go to that hotel and just send pictures. I was at the resort. You do random vacations.

Just go there. No, that place isn't even that expensive. I did look it up. Unless I'm totally off. I stayed at the resort at the first one. When they went to go see where Apollonia died in Godfather 1, I was

like, I was like losing my mind. It's like, this place exists. You can go visit Michael Corleone's mansion in San Torino or wherever the hell they were. I love it. I love everything about it. It's just such, it's one of the only shows I think it might be the

only show where I don't look up from my phone. I'm just completely locked in. I turn my texts off. I'm just all, I'm taking notes. It's all in. It's great. I think Mike White's like, would he, to write that show by yourself? By yourself.

Every word. To do that twice in two and a half years is fucking insane. To do it a second time and have it be good is what's like the first one's awesome but whenever you think about like hey how would this show work and then it's like okay well how many seasons and when you're done with the first season you're like wait so how are you going to do this again here's my does the show still work if there's not the dead body introduction of each episode or each season i think it works yeah i think it does too yeah but it's this extra little like i can't tell if i feel like it's a gimm, I think it does too. Yeah. But it's this extra little,

like I can't tell if I feel like it's a gimmick. Like, was it a gimmick that White used in the pitch? He's like, okay, we're at this resort. There's a dead body. And then it's like, no, we're just in this world. Yeah, he doesn't care about that. He cares about all the class stuff and he cares about human nature and human foibles. Greenwald did a good thing on the Watch about this this week, about season

two is about all these people who are kind of trapped with their situation. They kind of are who they are. There's no way out. And how they navigate being trapped in their specific personalities and life situations is kind of the key to the season. The key to the

Mike White thing, though, this was supposed to be one season and done. That's what I mean. There was supposed to key to the season. The key to the Mike White thing, though, this was supposed to be one season and done. That's what I mean. There was supposed to be no second season. Right. So this first season was so good, they went back to him, and they were like,

hey, season two, new location, any interest? And just kind of on the fly, he created this, which I think is incredible. Yeah, I think his dialogue is is really good where it's never predictable like i what greenwald says is really smart it also could just be people you know like i don't know if white decides to go i want to create all these characters that are trapped i think what he does as well as anybody is when he's doing dialogue you're never quite sure where it's going to go succession does a good job of that too yeah a lot of dialogue's very easy like oh you're talking

about this because you're going to get here and then this is i already know the line that we're going to be at the next scene of the whole thing and with white he's he's just better at having these natural conversations go the way natural conversations do like something pricks and then it moves in a different direction you're like oh wait we're doing this and then i don't know how it's how it's handled as far as the editing of the sound but the music and the sound effects that they use at the times you're not expecting to like sell the scene or throw you off or reset you the sound part of the show is unlike anything else I've experienced.

It's fucking perfect, man. Such a good show. They do a really good job of you're watching it and you're seeing little pieces of a relationship you have or just little tweaks, right? Even when Aubrey Plaza, the star of episode six, when her character,

she's looking at that Ethan and he's like having a psychotic breakdown, basically. She's just like, we're not attracted to each other anymore. It's like, oh shit, we're doing this now. That's what I mean. Is this happening right now before breakfast? We're going for this? It's, I don't know, man. It's, it's an intense show.

It's seven episodes feels right. Like the right length. Right. I wouldn't want to do 10. I wouldn't want, man. It's an intense show. Seven episodes feels like the right length. I wouldn't want to do 10. I wouldn't want to do 5. It always leaves me wanting a little more. And I think they have to do a third season now. I think they have to. I don't know where they would go. But they got to do it. I'm trying to think what other shows

that I think you would have liked oh you're yellowstone you've had yellowstone's had a rough season right i'm one behind i'm still watching it they've done a great job with the scenic stuff and all all the costner stuff is still really good the rip stuff is really good i'm just kind of out on like Renegade Beth. It's been going on for a while. Like they had one scene with Beth where it was the exact same scene that she'd already done like a couple seasons before.

And maybe it's because some of the audience just likes to see Beth go off. And I am still a little curious as like what Governor John Dutton's going to be like. But it's just hard. It's hard to keep the momentum. It's hard to keep the momentum of the show. And what I realized that I think I like about the show the most is Montana.

Just the scenes. Yeah. Yeah. Thank God. Cause like not to be artsy guy, but you'd be like, you know, Montana's the main character,

right? Well, I mean, you could say that with white lotus like italy is one of the main characters of that show it's like you're in a place yeah but i care about those i care about those characters more right now than i do with some of the yellowstone people but again i've only been with the white lotus characters for a week i've been with the yellowstone characters for five years it's hard relationships are hard i can't get there with Tulsa King. It's a Stallone thing.

It's not a show thing. It's a real Stallone vehicle. I can't get there anymore with Stallone. I just can't. I love Stallone. He's one of my favorite ever. And I just, you know, everything comes to an end. You don't like Stallone now.

No, no. I just don't want to watch Stallone as the star of a TV show anymore. You know, I wouldn't want to watch Magic Johnson play point guard anymore. I wouldn't watch Golik and Greeny do four hours on radio anymore. Did you?

All right. You can listen to Ryan Rosillo's podcast. It's the Ryan Rosillo podcast. He'll pop on here at least one or two more times before we, after All-Star break, we start doing our thing on Sunday nights again. And you took nephew Kyle to Colorado and did a live show with him.

He was incredible. People loved him. I was so nervous that he would nervous drink beforehand to be a complete disaster, but apparently he did all right. He played it cool. Five years ago, I think he nervous drinks and it's a disaster. No, he was great. He brought some goons along too. At first, I didn't realize it. I'm thinking your friends are that into me. It was a real ego thing where I was going like, wait, he goes yeah yeah

frolic room like we're coming like five deep one guy's afraid to fly he's gonna drive from la to denver i was like you have a guy who's gonna drive from la to denver to what drink for a couple days just to see the podcast and then i it just was like this immediate thing where i go oh these guys could give a fuck about me yeah i'm going to see k Kyle and then just to hang out for two days in a different city. They're not locked into anything that's going on with what I'm doing, which I thought was even more impressive. And then you got a big Jeff Green performance. Your guy. That guy's got to get a job somewhere, man.

He was incredible. What'd you think? I thought he was going to be good because I remember with the Celtics, I was always impressed with his interviews. But I thought he was way more personable. You know this. Some guys just get it. They know what we have to do and they know how to play off us and they know what they have to give us. And he just kind of gets it.

I was impressed. Yeah. You know what's always a great sign too is he sat in the back there's like a little room wouldn't really call it like backstage or whatever uh by the way ophelia's denver unbelievable facility like i said a great pictures were awesome yeah i i can't imagine how cool it would be to see a band that you know it's really small setting i want to keep checking to see if anybody comes through that i would like because it was that cool of a spot. But Jeff Green's in the back with two of my buddies, one college roommate, another guy that I know from Denver. Cause like I had like 15 guys come out for that

one and Jeff Green just sat with him. Like I left and had to go do something else. And then one of my buddies came back. He's like, he just sat with us and talked to us for like 15 minutes. That's awesome. Like we're normal. He goes, that guy, that guy, nine out of 99 out of a hundred times doesn't talk to the other people that he doesn't have to talk to. And he's just counting down the minutes until he goes out there with you. And he goes, we were talking about like the neighborhood and where I go. Yeah, man, it's everybody ended up being like the biggest Jeff green fans ever after that show. That's awesome. You know, we're going to start doing more live shows at the ringer. You're going to be doing a bunch of them. We have to figure out, you and I have to do one live show and we have to

figure out what the perfect city for us is. That would be the most fun. Palermo. Part of me was thinking Seattle. You know I love Seattle and I'm still mad they took their NBA team. I was thinking a Seattle show would be fun. Just go. It's been 15 years since they stole the Sonics from them this year. The last Sonic season was 07-08. The 15-year anniversary of Sonic's live show.

I don't know. The thing I want to do is I want to do a live show in Australia or New Zealand. The number of emails that we get because they're such crazed NBA fans is I want to do a live show in Australia or New Zealand. The number of emails that we get. Yeah, it's crazy. Because there's such crazed NBA fans. And it's a massive commitment.

And if I go, like I was trying to figure out a way if I could go Christmas and then the first week of January. But then it's like, you're going to miss the national championship. You're going to miss the bowl game. But you want to be there for Australian Open because everybody says

that's like one of the five best sporting events. I just want to go to like some breakers games and then jump over Australia. But I just don't know if you can do it right in less than... I can't be out of the country for two weeks while I'm still trying to work. Well, there's no way Kyle would want to go to Australia. Oh, no, he would totally go. Yeah, but that's the thing. This fall, I've traveled more, right?

Because I've been stuck a bit where i don't do anything and i but when you're trying to keep track of everything still like just shit being in denver for three days without the tv setup that i'm accustomed to like you're going all right what's on the espn game and then you're trying to set up a laptop and it's like oh this is why i don't really do that this much so if i go to i you're supposed to go to new zealand australia like coming this much. So if I go to, you're supposed to go to New Zealand, Australia, like coming up now, right? This time of the year.

Yeah. You're saying for the tennis, I don't care. I want to just see the cities and then basketball. But look, it's not happening right now anyway. So I'm just talking out loud. You're kind of lukewarm on Seattle. Yeah, I felt that, right? Yeah, you felt lukewarm.

When's the last time you've been to Seattle? I like Seattle. What would be your dream city? I think I've been. Milwaukee? Montreal. Montreal. I could get a little more exotic.

I do like Montreal. Maybe Whitefish, Montana. Montana live show? Yeah, I'd love to do that. Our guest, Governor John Dutton. We could do it from the Yellowstone. We could ask Brady if we can use his porch. Oh my God.

Fucking Brady. He's like Michael Myers. His season won't end. They're done yesterday. They pulled it back again. I'm all in on Brady. I'm more supportive of him than relatives right now. That was unbelievable.

To Dennis Allen, I thought for sure he was going to get fired. All right, we got to go. Priscilla, thank you. Good to see you. This was produced by Kyle Creighton, as always. We'll see you on Thursday on This Five. I don't have a few years left in me on the wayside

I'm a bruised soul I don't have a few years