The Bill Simmons Podcast - The Warriors and Suns in Trouble, the L.A. Teams Going in Different Directions, and Milwaukee’s One Problem With Doc Rivers

Episode Date: January 9, 2024

The Ringer's Bill Simmons quickly reacts to Titans head coach Mike Vrabel being fired (1:19) before he is joined by Doc Rivers to discuss the floundering Warriors (4:25), why the Lakers are struggling when their stars are healthy, (29:31), the Suns missing a key piece (52:35), the encouraging Clippers (1:00:20), concern for the Bucks (1:10:58), and more. Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Doc Rivers Producer: Kyle Crichton The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming up, talking NBA and broken teams and possibly unbroken teams. Doc Rivers next. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest rated sports book is the best place to bet it all. We've been doing pretty well on million dollar picks this year. I love the first month of the season because you have to go into the season thinking, I think Pittsburgh's going to be good. I think the first month of the season because you have to go into the season thinking, I think Pittsburgh's going to be good. I think the Chargers are going to be good. I think Seattle's going to be good. And then trying to back what you think in those first few weeks and then zag the other way. If you were wrong, you could bet on new and fun markets on FanDuel, like

to catch a pass, same game parlays, highest scoring game across the Sunday slate, offensive TDs, the next drive. They have so much stuff, it's crazy. The app is safe and secure and easy to use. And when you win, you'll get paid instantly. Plus, look out for FanDuel Squares this season. Here's what you have to do. Visit fanduel.com slash BS to download America's number one sportsbook.

The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. You must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem called Win 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us.

Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this, it's game day, all the gangs here, you're tailgating outside the stadium. It's a great time for beer. Or how about when you're standing at the grill and the smell of sizzling burgers is in the air? Moments like that. Or when you want a light beer that tastes like beer, that's delicious. You don't want to load up on those heavier beers and then you only have two of them. Then you feel tired. Your stomach feels full. Miller Lite, it's your friend.

It just accompanies whatever else you're doing. You're super happy with it. Opening an ice cold Miller Lite can signal the beginning of Miller time. Miller Lite is the light beer with all the great beer tastes we like. 90 calories per 355 mil can. So why not grab some Miller Lites today?

Your game time tastes like Miller time. Must be legal drinking age. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where I have a new Rewatchables that just went up. We did Flight with Denzel Washington, a movie that I saw in the theater and I really liked, but did not think it would become a Rewatchable. And then guess what?

It became a Rewatchable. It's a really good one. It's me and Van Lathan and Chris Ryan. More importantly, Denzel now moved into a fourth place tie in the all-time rewatchable standings. We've done 321 movies, Tom Cruise, 13 movies, De Niro, 12, Pacino, 12, and then Denzel and Matt Damon are tied at 10 in the fourth spot. Stallone, Hanks, Pitt are all tied for sixth place with nine movies. So those are your rewatchable standings. We still have a couple of Denzel movies left that we have not done too. So I don't know who's going to win this.

I don't know how long the rewatchables is going to last as a podcast. Maybe we'll get to 500 movies, 400, I don't know. But Cruise right now, tenuously holding on to his lead. And we have not done Risky Business yet. We haven't done a couple Mission Impossible movies. So who knows? Who knows how it plays out? Before we get to Doc,

I wanted to talk football really quick. Mike Vrabel fired from Tennessee as I was taping the podcast with Doc. Stunning. I mean, I really think he's one of the best six or seven coaches in the league. He is also somebody that has just real pedigree with the Patriots. I mean, he was there for basically, I don't know, the last two thirds of the Brady dynasty in some form, either playing on the Patriots or coaching against them. Knows a lot of those guys. And if you're going to move

on from Belichick, which I still don't think they should do, that is somebody that makes a lot of those guys. And if you're going to move on from Belichick, which I still don't think they should do, that is somebody that makes a ton of sense. And if this somehow worked out where they could, I theorized, I'm doing shorts on my YouTube channel and I had a short yesterday about if the Falcons really wanted Belichick,

what would that look like? Could they send the eighth pick to the Pats? The Pats let them hire Belichick and then send them the 35th pick back so they would basically move up from 35 to eight but give them Belichick, something like that. I think that Patriots want an asset for Belichick. That's why he hasn't been fired. That's why he has kind of put his foot in the sand and be like, hey, man, I'm coming back as a coach. And it's this little dance they're doing right now. And I can't tell if it's a good thing

or a bad thing. It does seem like he's receptive to potentially giving up the GM job if they bring in the right person. I think what the problem that's going to be is if they're calling around, sniffing around on GM candidates and Belichick finds out and they haven't cleared it with them, that's where it gets a little dicey. Still feels like it has the possibility of being really ugly. And from everything that I've heard, you know, Robert Kraft's in his 80s at this point. I think Jonathan Kraft is the one driving this in a lot of different ways.

And he is somebody that hasn't had a chance to run his own team. And maybe he got everything he could get out of Belichick, six Super Bowls, nine Super Bowl trips, the best 20-year run in the history of the league. And you just think, okay, maybe it's time to move on from this. So the Vrabel thing is a huge monkey wrench to this.

And I still feel like if you're a team like Washington and you could get Vrabel and you get him packaged with Adam Peters who's an executive candidate a lot of people like who's got Vrabel ties, maybe that makes the most sense.

Maybe that makes more sense in New England. But the Vrabel, monkey wrench, holy mackerel, that's a big one. And then a lot of people are asking me why I haven't weighed in

on all the McAfee, Roger stuff because it seems like if you used to work for ESPN once upon a time, you have to weigh in with an opinion. I just don't care. I really don't. Good luck to everyone involved.

Okay, we're going to bring in Doc Rivers right now. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, it is 9.21 a.m. on Pacific Time Tuesday. Doc Rivers is here. I thought Charles Barkley was going to join us, but he did the classic Charles Barkley. Like he was in, he was in, and I don't know what happened to him. It was supposed to be the three of us.

I didn't like our chances when you told me and then didn't give me a, I'll let you know the time. Yeah, yeah. That means the tea time came up. My guess is Charles, bigger tea time, Doc and Bill, I'm going with the tea time. Yeah, I don't know if I totally blame them, but my feelings were hurt. All right, there's a lot wrong with the NBA right now, and some right.

We're going to go with the wrong. And I wanted to start here because we have three aging teams, the Lakers, the Warriors, and Phoenix, all of whom collectively are under 500 as we head into the second stretch of January here. You coached a team like this that got kind of old, but maximized whatever it had left from 2010 to 2012 and almost made the finals in 2012. But it was a haul. It was a chore. There was one stretch, I think in 2012, I think it was, they were 25 and 25 over a 50 game stretch, right?

Still almost made it. So you're not the same. You can't do it night after night, but there's some pedigree there. And the challenge is how do you extract the pedigree out of a team that can't do it night after night after night? Which one of these three teams remind you the most of that Phoenix Lakers or Warriors?

Well, there's only one really. Uh, and that's, uh, the Warriors because they've won a title. Now the Lakers have won a title too, but I think they have two guys left, uh, from that team where the Warriors have, you know, some of their key guys still intact with, with Curry and Clay Thompson, Draymond Green, Peyton. I mean, so they have some guys that are there, Looney Wiggins. So they're the only team, you know, I always talk about teams once they win and they're kind of made, they understand what it takes, the sacrifice and all that.

The problem is with them, obviously, is age. Injury. You know, we don't talk about Clay's injuries enough. It's nothing, not a knock against Clay, but he's had injuries. And he has never returned back to the clay before the injuries, nor did anyone think he would. At least I didn't. He had a knee and an Achilles and back-to-back years. Draymond is still doing the same stuff.

We can get into that a little bit later. But he is on the floor. If you just take away the other stuff where he just got suspended for, he's still playing terrific basketball, and Curry's still playing terrific basketball. The guy they need to pick up even more is Wiggins, has to play better. Who just had his worst game against Toronto, where he was literally unplayable. They couldn't keep him on the court.

Yeah, and then, you know, the Whiffs, they took too big, you know, they had a chance because of great management with the draft picks. And when you want to review that, those picks and the guys that they could have had, it changed their fortune. They, I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, they could have Edwards, correct? No, Edwards went one, but they could have had LaMelo. I mean, the worst thing that happened to them was they actually won one of the top lottery spots because I think if they didn't, they would have taken Halliburton.

It would have made more sense to take them in the five to eight range. But they elevated it to, and it was a COVID draft, which makes it so much harder to figure out who to take because you can't even spend time with them. That was rough, drafting in that time. But you think about Ball's fortune because he goes to Charlotte, and for the most part, they've been dysfunctional. Not just him, but the franchise in a lot of ways.

And now they have the ownership. And hopefully that'll change. But what if Ball had have come into that winning environment? What type of player would he have been? And you talk about the perfect player for them. It would have been him. Oh, see, I think the perfect player would have been Halliburton. Because he doesn't need the ball all the time. And he just would have been amazing in his hoops IQ.

But I just don't think they had the balls to take him at two. At that high, unless they moved down. And, you know, they're doing what maybe they should have done, what the Bears may do in a failed draft with some of their picks. But they're the only team that reminds me of the Celtic team because they had one. The Lakers are different because you have LeBron. Can we hold on the Warriors

for a second? Yeah. I was doing some research on them because they're 17 and 19, which is stunning. You would have thought. A big piece of that is Wiggins and Draymond I would say are the two biggest culprits. The fact that Draymond, even when they were 4-9 in their last 13 games with them, and he was so erratic on the court, I really do think it was affecting him.

But the shocking thing, if you really dive into the numbers, so I like looking at the advanced metrics where you can look at the two-man lineups, the three-man lineups, the four-man lineups, like just see combinations. Guess who was in every single best four-man lineup that they had? It was not Steph Curry. It was Chris Paul. He was in their six best four-man lineups

and he just fractured his hand. And now he's out for, God, I don't even know how long, like four to six weeks maybe. But I didn't, because I was watching, I'm like, man, he looks a tiny bit washed, but he can still run a team. It doesn't seem like he has the same lift.

But in every lineup, he was crucial and he was crucial for Curry without Draymond. So you lose him and now you have that Toronto game and Curry's terrible in it, partly because he doesn't have

Draymond or Chris Paul. So I just, did you think watching that he was that important to that team? Because I didn't get that sense watching I did because Draymond was out

I think that's why those numbers are skewered also one of the things I thought Chris did well with the Warriors is he was the guy with the second unit and they didn't have a guy you know a lot of times Draymond

would come back in with the second group and try to meet a facilitator. Well, having Chris, that allowed that. Without Draymond, he's playing the role of Draymond, and that's why he's so good with this team. Now he's out, Draymond's coming back, but in the meantime, they're going to struggle until Draymond comes back, hopefully soon. He may play tonight, I doubt that, but Wednesday night.

And then the second thing, Bill, their bench is terrible. They have nothing. They have no scoring. They have no defense. Their bench is really struggling. Kaminga, man, you see glimpses of what he could be. He has it in his mind. One thing that's ruined our league overall

is every single guy who thinks he can score. Yeah. It really does. The scoring thing, especially on a young guy, he still wants to cement himself and show people he's a player. Well, that's tough to do when you're on a young guy, he still wants to submit himself and show people he's a player. Well, that's tough to do when you're on a championship team because we want you to fit into the role that helps us win. And you can see clearly he does not fit in the peg that they want to put him in because he doesn't want that. You can see it every night.

When that ball hits his hands, that's the last option. It's not moving much after that. And it frustrates his team. Can he score? Yeah. Is it an elite score? I don't see that. And he's trying to scratch the surface of whatever he could be.

I was kind of shocked last week that all of a sudden there was a Kaminga controversy. And he's, you know, stuff obviously getting leaked to reporters from him and then he kind of goes on the record and it's like yeah I think I could do more for this team I'm really frustrated and it's like who the F are you? You're 21 years old you've done jack shit in the league. Steve Kerr's won

four titles as a coach and then all the other ones as a player you're playing with Curry like who wants to hear from you? I had to ask you, what happens in Kevin Garnett's locker room if Kaminga gives that interview? Oh, it's going to be a conversation.

The conversation, honestly, Bill, would come from me as well as I'm sure it did from Steve. But it doesn't matter sometimes because guys don't want to hear that. You know, what Kaminga sees is Jordan Poole. He sees that Jordan Poole may have got a max contract. Yeah. And so he sees that and he wants to play that role.

He wants to have that freedom. But you don't have the scoring ability to have that freedom. And it's a conundrum for the Warriors because they need him. Yeah, they need his athleticism more than anything. They really do. And his defensive ability. But he is just not. That's

why he hasn't played. You know, people in the last couple years in the playoffs, why isn't Kaminga playing? Because he hasn't bought in. He won't buy into his role. He believes he's something else. And it's your job as a coach to try to get guys to fit into that role. And many times, Bill, you would be amazed how often that that's a problem, but it's usually a problem. Well, go backwards with Rondo like 15 years ago. So you got Rondo and Rondo's better than Kaminga, but Rondo is a second year guy. He's not going to have it every night. There's some

shooting stuff with him. Teams are leaving him open. But he's also clearly really talented. And you have, and Cassell comes in halfway through the season. Now it's like you got Cassell kind of leaning over his shoulder a little bit if it doesn't work out. And you've got to manage that as a former point guard.

And try to keep his confidence up. Try to keep his confidence up. Now his thing would never roll. He was just a stubborn dude, you know, and he was smart. And that made it even more difficult. But if you remember, we always forget that there was a lot of pressure on me not to start Rondo for game six in 2008 because he had struggled and we had come back and thank God we stuck with him because he had the game of his life. But when you see him every day,

you keep the belief in him, but his shot was an issue. We had to, we won a title at, you know, with a point guard that wasn't a great shooter, but was smart enough to still affect the game. Yeah.

Well, I look at the, whatever is going to happen with this team. I feel like they have to make a trade. And I'm not a, you 100% have to make a trade guy. I love trades, obviously. I love making up fake trades.

The league's more fun when trades happen. But when there's pedigree and they just won a title a year and a half ago, you want to be a little careful. I think that point is gone. And, you know, they clearly have careful. I think that point is gone. And they clearly have to do something. And they got Wiggins, who's got three years left after this one, four for 109, basically. Draymond's first year, his contract, four for 100. CP's expiring at 31. Clay's expiring at 43 and Kaminga. And it just feels like a Wiggins plus Kaminga for something.

And the question for me is, what kind of salary are they going to take back? Are they in the Zach Levine business? Are they looking at the Siakam? Does Toronto want to move Siakam? You know all the usual suspects, but I would assume something's going to happen. But if I'm scouting the Warriors,

why do I want Wiggins? I don't want to go near him the way he's been playing basically for the last nine months. And you're done, Levy, and you have the reins now, right? You're thinking, oh my gosh, I'm in a tough spot, right? Yeah, Bob Myers is like, sorry, guys. That was a total coincidence that I left right now. I just needed a break. Bob got out just in time.

He really did. I still think they're dangerous. Oh, if Chris Paul is healthy and Draymond is healthy and Wiggins is playing very well and they can get something out of Kaminga and Klay Thompson is just, you know, he's going to be inconsistent, but he's going to have those nights. You still don't want to play him. But the question is,

can they make a trade that would put them back in the conversation of winning? And whoever that is, can he fit in in time? That's the question. And it would have to be a player like a Holiday that's a plug-and-play guy, no matter where he's at. The couple guys you mentioned, I think Siakam could fit anywhere. He's just a hard-playing dude, will defend, gives them length, gives them athleticism. Inconsistent shooter, but shoots it well enough, gets to the foul line.

So he solves a lot of their issues. Zach Levine, to me, would take time. He's never fit in with the Bulls. He's been a hell of a scorer, but he just hasn't fit in. Could he fit in in time? He

definitely would give them the shooting. He's a freak athlete. He's never defended well um right if you're 21st on defense then maybe uh zachary vane's not the answer no not the answer but he does give them some more athleticism he can run the floor and you know playing off of a curry uh and in that system because he can catch and shoot. So he can do some of those things. He would be an interesting guy. I don't know if he's a fit,

but he would be interesting. If I was a team that sucked or needed to kind of reset for this season, Kamingo would be really interesting to me because his age, there's clearly real pedigree there. And I do like that. He's an irrational confidence guy, but I don't mind it.

It's just I mind it on this team because he hasn't earned it. But if he's on like Charlotte or Washington or some of these crappy teams or Detroit and could just kind of do his thing, I was thinking Bogdanovich would be an interesting one for them too, because that's somebody who high hoops IQ can fit in. You can go to him. He can carry your second unit. You can run offense through him. Detroit clearly needs to make a trade.

I don't, I don't know if Wiggins and Kaminga for Bogdanovich is even, that's too much from the warrior side, but he's somebody that, uh, that's, that's too much at his age, you know,

uh, but maybe Detroit, maybe there's more stuff in the trade. Yeah. I got to ask you about Draymond, where it's been this rollercoaster ride all year with him, and then he's going to take a break. It's an indefinite suspension.

He's going to work on some stuff. It's like, all right, let's give him the benefit of the doubt. And then yesterday he comes out with his Draymond Green show, and it's like, here are all my thoughts. And I'm like, why are we hearing from you? Like, it wasn't the whole point of this

to get your shit together and try to come back and just be normal on the basketball court. It doesn't seem like you've learned anything. I was kind of alarmed that he did that. Well, I think Draymond is Draymond. And I think everyone is who they are.

I always laugh at these, you know, he's going to go get a therapist and then he's going to come back a different guy. You know, right when Joel came back, he said some of the same stuff. You know, listen, I'm going to play with my swag. I got to do that. Draymond has to be who he is, Bill, on the floor. He cannot change that. He plays with an edge. Clearly,

he's had time to think about okay, there's a level, there's a line that I keep going over that I have to stop doing this. I'm hurting my team. You can make a case that Draymond calls the Warriors a title. You know, he got suspended

with the technical palsy, missed the games, and that changed that series. If Draymond doesn't get suspended... Well, LeBron goaded him into it, too. It's one of his best plays. Like, he really did. He knew exactly how many

technicals Draymond had. And I guarantee you that was talked about because, like, if Draymond has this toughness and a swag, but you can get to him. You can. And, and, you know, smart teams have done that.

Cleveland did that and won a title because of it. So, and guess what? Teams are going to do it this year too. Yeah. If that doesn't change, you know, like if that doesn't, you think any of this other stuff is going to? It's not. Having said that, it's a tough walk.

You know, if I was his coach, it's a tough walk because I need him to be him. I need him to play with that age. That age, he is an enforcer, right? Yeah. What enforcer in any sport, no matter how many times they were suspended or kicked out, changed. Yeah, true.

It's funny. You said, Draymond is Draymond. This was an Adam Corolla theory from 20 years ago. If you're talking about somebody and you say their name twice, they're usually a problem. And this was like Manny Ramirez when he was on the Red Sox it was like well you know Manny's Manny

and it's like Draymond's Draymond Rondo is like this Rondo's Rondo and it's usually it usually comes with a little extra if you're saying the name twice and what I've learned in a funny way I heard someone say it so I don't know who said it so I'm taking credit for whatever

knowledge someone else said. But when you hear all the ex-players' podcasts, or hear them talking, you realize they still are who they are. You know, a lot of guys just don't change, you know. Right, Gilbert Arenas hasn't really evolved. No, like, he is what he is. And that's, that's never going to change. Same thought pattern. Um,

you know, that it tells it, it's actually cool to listen to all this because it teaches you a lot. Um, you know, my dad had a saying and it's not about Gilbert or whoever else. He just used, I remember calling him.

I think I'd be once about Irrational. That was a cop. He was a cop in Chicago. I'm complaining to him about a player and he says, son, you're rational. He's irrational. It's never going to work. You can't be

rational with irrational. It just doesn't work. He said, listen, I face criminals like that all the time't work. And he said, listen, I face criminals like that all the time. And you know what he said? You know what I do to them? I put handcuffs on them. Right. Well, ironically, the Warriors,

their best chance is Draymond can somehow be functional the rest of the way because he does bring a lot. Now that Chris Paul's out, he's the way to unlock Curry offensively to help him. He's the way to unlock him defensively. Yeah, he's so important to that team in so many ways. He brings them an edge. He brings them toughness. And whether people want to believe it or not, he's still the leader. He holds,

in a strange way, he holds everybody accountable on the floor. He really does. Like, if you don't play right, you're going to hear it from Draymond. You know, now the question is, can anyone hold him accountable? And can he stay on the floor? All right, well, let's play a little game here. And then we'll take a break and talk about the Lakers. Yeah, the Western Conference right now, the Warriors are 12th.

Utah passed the Warriors. Utah, who seemed like they might be ready to be a seller two weeks ago, is now 18 and 20. Golden State's 17 and 19. They have Utah in front of them, the Lakers, Phoenix, Houston, New Orleans, Dallas, Sacramento, Clippers, Denver Oklahoma City Minnesota they've got to jump

at least two of those teams just to get in the play so let's say Utah's one who's the other it's probably Houston maybe but I don't know Shungun's playing really well right now he's playing as well as anyone on the Warriors so I don't know who to jump's playing really well right now. He's playing as well as anyone on the Warriors.

So I don't know who to jump. I think Houston would be the target, clearly, because after that, unless New Orleans, unless with injuries and stuff, with Zion is always a possibility. And you hate to say that, but that's a fact. No, that's true. So those would be the teams that they could jump. You know, listen, three days ago,

I said Memphis is making it. And now they're out, you know, with Jaw being out. And boy, would they have been fun and dangerous. I watched them against the Lakers with Jaw and everybody healthy. They would have been, you know, Marcus Smart and Jaw together with Bane, that is a heck of a one, two, three punch.

It really is. And now he's out so we can forget them. Yeah, I was going to talk about them later. I didn't really have a lot to say. It's just like this was the year from hell. I am with you. I thought even though they were I think they were 13-22

then he got hurt before the last game. I'm with you. It felt like they were coming. And Marcus was hitting threes, which helps. I don't know if that's super reliable. But Ja was like pretty quickly reestablished himself as one of the best 15 guys in the league

and all of a sudden their team fell into place. Like it's funny how that happens when you lose an all NBA guy and your team isn't as good. Um, and I'm with you. I thought they were coming now. I don't know what they do. I mean that the big question for me is do you keep Marcus or do you cash out

and try to get some stuff that will help you down the road? Or is Marcus a foundation guy? They got Kennard on an expiring they can trade. Other than that, they don't really have... Maybe they take their lumps. They're already the 6th worst team. They're not going to get to the bottom 4, but they'll be 5. So now they get this lottery pick

that'll be top 5 and maybe you just keep it and you say, you know what? Lost season. But we're back next year. I think that's the answer. I think it's a clear answer. I think Marcus is a great fit. In some ways, he's a better version of Brooks for them because of his ability to play the point guard position.

And he's really good. He's a hell of a fast one, great defender, clutch. He's won a lot too. He hasn't been the winner, but he's won a lot too you know he hasn't been the winner but he's won a lot so uh they have a chance you know canard may be a guy they move you know a great shooter there's so many teams that need shooting you know every time you lose i was just talking to a coach uh that's in the nba right now and he you know we're talking about his team and he asked me a question he said whenever you lose in the playoffs what's the first thing you think about?

And I said, shooting. It's so often you say shooting. And then the second thing would be chemistry, right? But shooting is always right at the top. Well, the one thing they could do if they wanted to get funky, Canards and expiring, Adams is only this year and next year, and you could put those two together and try to take on somebody's bigger salary thinking next year, right?

Like you could, Toronto might be losing Siakam, and he's a free agent, and maybe you say, let's roll the dice with him or Zach Levine. Maybe that's a Zach Levine team. Just like, you know what? Let's turn basically two assets that aren't helping us this year anyway and try to see if we can get somebody from next year.

I don't know. Sometimes you have those years, though. You just have the year from hell and it definitely seems like they had it. We're going to take a break and talk about the Lakers. As good as the regular season is, there's nothing like NFL Super Wildcard Weekend. Six games, three days for these teams.

Win or go home. And you'll always have a spot in the playoffs with FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook. I'm going to be revealing my picks on Thursday's BS Podcast. But I'll just tell you this. I love the Browns. I love the Browns. And I hope you're going to watch Ringer Wiseguys on FanDuel TV Saturday and Sunday this week, breaking down every single playoff game.

And if you want to bet on some of this stuff, if you want to follow my picks, go to FanDuel right now. New customers get started with $150 and bonus bets guaranteed when you place your first $5 bet. Just visit FanDuel.com slash BS to join today. FanDuel.com slash BS.

Make every moment more with FanDuel, an official sportsbook partner of the NFL. You must be 21 plus and president select states. First online real money wager only. $10 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com.

This episode is brought to you by Prime Video. You know me, I can't go a day without sports. I really can't. And now Monday nights are all about hockey. That's right. There's a new exclusive home for streaming Monday night NHL hockey. And it's on Prime.

All season long, watch Prime Monday night hockey deliver unreal plays, the biggest goals, can't miss moments. Matthews, McDavid, Crosby, the NHL's best. They're all on Prime. Prime Monday Night Hockey. It's on Monday. It's on Prime. All right, because Barkley didn't join us, I did text Larry David to see if he would do a surprise pop on. And his return text was, I'm working out.

Ask doc how I predicted what would happen to Lakers after that idiotic plan. That's, that's, that's his topic that he wants to discuss. Bill Larry. He's almost excited about being right. You know,

we were golfing last week and I think it was on the second hole. He looks at me. Are you going to give me any credit? And I said, credit for what? And he's like, I told you that the Lakers are going to win this in-season tournament, and then they would go right down. He thinks it's unnatural to ramp up at this time of the year. Oh, interesting.

Right after it, you got 60 games left. And he kept saying, and I will give Larry David credit, because he kept saying, whoever wins is going to go on a tailspin. It's just emotionally, they have to. And whenever I talk to Larry, I start talking like Larry. You know? Right. And so he kind of did predict it.

I will say that. So I'll give him credit. Well, they're 18 and 19. They're 6 and 13 on the road. They're 23rd offensive rating. And the alarming piece is that AD has only missed two games and LeBron has only missed three. And if you had told me all those numbers together,

I've been like, there's no way. That's impossible. Not only that, the alarming piece to me is AD's missed two games in the Bronx, but they're both playing great. They're not playing well. AD right now is probably on the best stretch maybe of his career. Yeah. I mean, he is rolling. He's playing unbelievable.

And Reeves is playing pretty solid as well. So they have three guys. I've done two games in the last week of the Lakers, so I've had the chance to really look at them. They have several problems. They've had some injuries. Rui is out. D'Angelo Russell just came back.

They have to establish two units. And they just haven't done that yet. They keep changing. And to me, they're getting closer. They are with the starting lineup. You have to put shooting on the floor with the starting lineup, right? But you also need the length and the toughness that they want to play with because they are long and athletic.

And so first they took Reeves out, put him back in, and then they took Russell out, which I was in favor of. I thought that was a very good move. I think Russell, you have to turn into Lou Williams. Totally agree. Or Jamal Crawford and just say, man, when have to turn into Lou Williams. Totally agree. Or Jamal Crawford. And just say, man, when you come in the game, Lou and I, we still laugh because I took Lou out of a game once

and he was upset at me. And after the game, he wanted to have a talk about it. And he goes, why'd you take me out? I said, because you weren't scoring. And he said, what do I have to out? I said, cause you wasn't scoring. And he said, what have I, do I get a score every time? I said, yeah, because you're not going to defend. So I said, Lou, let's make it clear. When you come in, you can shoot every time. I will never tell you a bad shot ever. Uh, but if it ain't going in you're coming out so you can be as aggressive as you want to be and it actually he was talking about how much freedom that gave him they just thought

okay when i come in the second unit is mine and i think that's what you're gonna have to try to do with russell and rui wants to score too so if you put those two in your second unit, and with some of the starters, you've got a chance. The starting lineup is the one that they've gone with Cam Radish. I think Vanderbilt eventually will be the guy. He'll be the only non-shooter of the four on the floor. And with his ability to defend and roll, I think that's the lineup they have to go to. See, I agree with you, and I don't understand

why this wasn't the strategy heading into this season. Because to me, Russell should not be playing with LeBron and Davis because you don't need him at that point. You already have so much offense on the floor. And Reeves too. And Reeves, I just love the way Reeves and LeBron and AD all

play together. I don't need Russell in that scenario. Russell, here's what you're going to be this year. You have two 10-minute stretches each half. We're running everything through you. I like the Rui combo, too. Just like, hey, you two, we only want to play LeBron 32 minutes a game this year. You guys have these other 16 minutes.

They belong to you. If you can't handle it, you can't handle it. There's a couple of things that, we talked a little about this last week on the pod. They don't have enough offense, which is weird because, as you said, LeBron and AD are playing well. For instance, their 30th and three-point attempts. Their 25th and three-point

shooting. When you say you put Vanderbilt out there, to me, that's kind of not what they need. I don't know if all the swing guys make sense for the team they have. What they really need is some dead eye. Even if they had Sam Houser,

it would have a dramatic impact on the kind of team they have. So I think they have to be looking for a guy like that. And they don't seem to have him on the roster. I agree with that. I do think if you put four scores on the floor with one roller, you can get

away with it. And that's why I would play Vanderbilt. Well, they don't have another choice. They don't have a choice. Unless you put Rui in the starting lineup. But then you're too clumsy at that. Like the Celtics, they did that against the Celtics. The Celtics blew them out of the floor when they tried to do it.

They were too slow. The other thing, and we talked about this last week, and then Kurt Goldsberry had a graphic about it, about the offensive rating with these LeBron Laker teams year after year is in the 20s. It's like, why is that? Is it because he's just older now?

Because his stats are pretty similar to where they've been his whole career. But why isn't the offense performed? You have LeBron and AD on the same team and your 23rd offensive rating. That kind of seems impossible. So are you putting the wrong people around them? Is it too hard when you have two $50 million players, basically. You just don't. From that point, the talent just, you can't put the, you end up with three Angela Russell, and you end up with Rui Hachimor and not real scores. But now you can because the cap's going up. There is more room, number one. But two $50 million players and two $50 million, you can't get away from that.

Having said that, LeBron's not as good as he is, and he makes people better in some ways, in a lot of ways, but he's also not easy to play with either. You're playing with LeBron James. And that statement says basically what I'm trying to say. You're playing with LeBron James. If you've got big eyes playing with him, you can't play with him. One thing I've learned as a coach,

when you have great players, the other players have to have irrational confidence that they can shoot or that they should be shooting or they should be aggressive. It's amazing how many overpasses when you watch them. LeBron puts

a lot of pressure on his guys, rightly so. So it's not easy. Their pace is not great. When the Lakers run, Bill, and play at pace, they're unbelievable because they have size. And I always use it as a snowball. Snowball going downhill, it gets bigger. And when the bigger teams run, they're difficult to deal with.

They can't run all year because of LeBron's age, right? They can't run all year because of AD. But you did see in the end season tournament, when they do play at a pace, they're tough. They really are. And then they start making shots. So I still say this. They have to get healthy. Number one. It doesn't look like the kid from Miami will play anytime soon. But he was vital

to their plans because he did add shooting. He added shooting to their team. But I agree. If they could somehow pull something out of their hat over the trade deadline and get a three or a four who can space

the floor, it would be huge for their team. Because you're not going to win every night getting outshot by the three, by five and six shots. I mean, teams are making five, six, seven more threes a night against the Lakers. And the Lakers are a terrific defensive team,

but they're not that good. You can't make that up. And the other piece is they don't have the random guy in the roster who just gets 29 in one night. Especially with how deep the league is now. It's always nice to have that one guy come in and hit like six

threes out of nowhere, and just, they haven't had that. I said on Thursday, and I'm not a huge Zach Levine fan, but to me, it's the logical trade for them. And they have the hours to match it up. The thing that would scare you is that his contract's long and LeBron will be gone by the time.

But if you're just plucking players from other rosters and putting them on this roster and being like, what does this team need? It's somebody like that. Somebody who can, he's a 40% three-point shooter. He can create offense. He can carry them on days when LeBron doesn't have it. He could have the random 39-point game. I think LeBron has shown a tendency over the years to extract. If somebody is actually really talented, can pull that out of them. Um,

when you talk about the big eyes, like, I don't think Zach would have that playing for those guys. It would be the greatest thing that ever happened to him if he got traded to them. Yeah. Well, I think I'm going back to my,

you're thinking rationally right now, Bill. Yeah. And the question I would have is, will Zach do the other things? He's not done them yet. Will he defend? Yeah.

Will he compete? Because those are the things he has to do. And I agree. You play with LeBron rationally. Of course he would. Right. But again, I always go back to what are you? And we don't know what he is because he's never been on a winning team. Guys do change.

That's the one area that guys will change a little bit when they come to a winner. I mean, Wiggins changed. You know, we forget about the message on Wiggins when he went to Golden State, doesn't play hard, floats around. And then he changed in front of our eyes and played unbelievable basketball for the Warriors. So can a Levine change would be the question. Well, the greatest example of all time of this is your childhood friend, Mark Aguirre, right? When the trick trades for him, we're going back 35 years, but he's this shooting, scoring, doesn't play defense. Larry Bird had the Mavs circled on his calendar.

He's like, I'm going to get 48 tonight. And Detroit trades for him. And they're like, we're refashioning you as this post-up player who's also going to actually defend. And nobody thought it was going to happen. And then it happened. And he actually elevated his game

as a supporting guy. In a way, he was a 30-point scorer in Dallas. And then it was a completely different version of him in Detroit. So that I think is you're hoping for a hybrid of that, but you would also want Zach to, I think go off. Like to me, Philly makes no sense for him.

Um, I don't think that's what they need. You're basically, you're locked in at that point to our three best guys going forward or Embiid, Maxine Levine. They all kind of need the ball. I just don't like it.

Yeah. But the Lakers, I like it because I think he does extra things that they need. But the only problem is I would hate to give up briefs to do it. No way. I'm not doing it. Yeah. Yeah. Now, if you combine somebody with Levine, maybe.

No, you can't. You can't give up briefs. I agree, and that's what they're going to ask for. That's irrational by the Bulls, but that's what they would ask for. Don't you think it's just Russell and Hachimura and your unprotected 20-29 pick and let's call it a day? I think that's where, who's making a better offer than that for Levine?

Because they clearly have to trade him. Yeah, especially now. His value is actually getting hurt by not playing because the Blues are playing better. And Kobe White's playing way better with Adam. So it's like, we know what our team is now. Yeah, that's giving teams pause on Levine, right? Yeah. So they're going to have to do something.

And, you know, taking Russell and Roy might be the best combination. DeRozan on the Lakers do anything for you or no? He's an expiring. He's an expiring. It doesn't give them any more three-point shooting, but it gives them an efficient score. Like he's a guy, when DeRozan plays, he scores. The other thing, DeRozan does a great job,

and I think one of the more underestimated numbers is getting to the foul line. And the more the Lakers get to the foul line with their size and their defense, the more dominant they become. So, you know, he does give them that. I still would rather have a three-point shooter just to space the floor. But man, can he score. Can I ask you a big picture question

about the rhythm of LeBron's seasons that don't go well with the amount of attention he has on him and whoever he's playing for? And it always seems to be the same beats in December, January, where three guys are just thrown at every trade, trade rumor possible. The coach is under,

you know, now he's being questioned for the rotations. And so Darvin Ham's been under the microscope now for 10 days, but this seems like a thing that happens over and over and over again. How unsettling is that when you're the coach of a team and you, half of the guys on your team are like, if this doesn't go well, I'm going to just be trade rumors from that point on versus where you have a team like, I don't know, the Celtics or OKC, where those guys are all like, we're all together. Like if

they make a trade, they'll just be adding somebody, but none of us are going anywhere. We have a real nucleus. I think part of the problem with some of the LeBron teams, especially the last 10 years, is it always felt like the nucleus was just him and AD, or him and AD and Reeves, and everyone else was kind of up for grabs. How do you manage

that as a coach when everybody is basically always available? It is so hard. It's brutally hard. One of the problems, probably haven't many, but one of the problems I had with Daryl was that he talked too much. And so from a coaching standpoint, and I got this from guys in Houston

when he came to say, you got to get them to talk less because trying to coach a team every day. Right. And your guys are mentioned every day in trades. And then here comes the coach. Hey, I want you to play a lesser role or I want you to do this. And he's like, why you guys talk about me every day about being traded.

Right. I'm not buying in the, it makes it hard. And so like Darwin right now, every day, one of his players has mentioned that the Lakers, you know, this guy will fit with LeBron and,

and players start thinking at times, where is that coming from? Is that coming from the Lakers? Is that coming from LeBron? You know, it just creates a major issue. I remember we had late, it was maybe 2010 or nine. I was working out, which is, that's a story right there, right? I'm on a treadmill at my residence where I was staying in Boston, where I live. And I'm watching the SportsCenter, and they come on the Rondo trade. And I'm like, wait, what?

I've never heard of this trade, what they were talking about. Whatever the trade was, I have never heard that guy's name mentioned. And I called Danny because of Lent Sports Center. It was big. And he was like, this is absurd. But now. Now Rondo's side-eyeing you guys. Yeah, I got to go talk to Rondo.

And Rondo was great, but he did say, it's coming from somewhere. And I said, Rondo, I'm telling you, it's not coming from somewhere. You know, and I can say, I said, Rondo, I'm telling you, it's not coming from here. And fortunately, we had a relationship that he trusted, but that could have gone way wrong. And it happens all

the time. Oh, that was the, was that the Rondo-Chris Paul one? That was the one, right? Oh, no, that one was the bad one because they had already hated each other. I want to say, I never figured out what that was all about, but that was true. They did not like each other.

It was very interesting, that thing. It was actually hilarious. You know, I used to, he got mad because I called him batting weights. I said, what are you guys going to do? I mean, he got mad because I called him batting, uh, batting, batting weights. I said, what are you guys going to do? I mean, you can't even move furniture.

I said, would you guys stop it? This is ridiculous. But rather than, you remember the game where he basically said, I'm going after Chris Paul and he did. Oh yeah. So that was nuts. Yeah. I don't think, you know, as I get older and I learn more about the league and talk to people like you,

I don't think people fundamentally understand, especially in this current culture we have, which I'll admit I'm a part of, right. We're doing podcasts. We're right. We're covering the league and the ringer. But I don't think people understand the rhythms of the season. And when guys go into trade rumors or guys feel like the team hasn't bought into them or the best player

hasn't bought into them, how that then affects how the team is coached, how people buy into the overall strategy. And over and over again, the teams that succeed, like Denver,

you never hear anything about Denver, right? It's Denver like, oh, Denver's, they're not happy with Michael Porter Jr. They're shopping around. It's just, those oh, Denver's, they're not happy with Michael Porter Jr. They're shopping around. It's just, those things doesn't exist

because they know like, this is our team. Same thing with what the Celtics, I think have at least this season. OKC, you could go through. And the teams that have the upheaval, it's not as good. That's the culture. That goes back to culture, right?

Like, you know, San Antonio, they make trades, but you don't hear about it. You never hear about it. It just happens. And you're like, wow know san antonio they make trades but you don't hear about it you never hear about it it just happens and you're like wow they made a move you know uh that really is great for coaches uh because you can coach your guys when it happens it happens and then you have to deal with that uh but this is a different time because there's so much, so many things for people to hear from, Twitter, Instagram. You know, last year, there were four or five players. There was no way we were trading, right?

But they were convinced they were getting traded. Yeah. And so, you know, every year as a coach around this time, you have to choose who to bring in the office, who to have to sit down to. Some are just so irrational. Like, we've not talked about you that one time. Those are the easy ones in some ways, even though they still don't quite believe you sometimes. The hard ones are the true ones. You know, because

you may not trade them, but yeah, teams are calling. And trying to coach through that is very difficult. Well, and you have bad actors too, right? Like the player might have an agent. He's got a contract coming up. It's better if he does get traded because

the stats are going to be higher. He's going to make more money. So the agent's telling the player half-true stuff to get him mad, so it's going if he does get traded because the stats are going to be higher. He's going to make more money. So the agent's telling the player half true stuff to get him mad. So it's going to go badly and he'll get traded. That's the thing that happens. And agents are out there actually calling teams, almost facilitating trades. And then they call you back and they would do this. And then they're leaking a Woj or Shams or whoever like,

Hey man, I don't know if you knew this, but Boston Washington are talking right now. And then they're leaking a Woj or Shams or whoever like, Hey man, I don't know if you knew this, but Boston, Washington are talking right now. And meanwhile, they've had one five minute phone call. You, the worst thing you were involved with, with the Celtics was when Ray got traded and then the trade fell through. And that was what led to him going to Miami. I think, I mean, I don't think he ever recovered from that, but how did you manage that in the week after? Well, the trade, he was never traded. That's one thing I will say. But there was discussions, and there were heavy discussions, and both teams called it off. Like, no, we didn't like it. The problem was that got out. And Ray was already, you you know in his mind he sacrificed a lot which he did

uh in the way he wanted to play but at his age uh he was probably in the right place and then the rondo relationship with ray so you had all that going um did i think ray was gonna leave after the year i thought it was 50 50-50. I really did. Was I shocked that he left? Not at all. And listen, as much as I hate to say it, he went to the right place. He really did. I hated it because Miami had just beat us.

And that was like the old unwritten rule. Don't go to a team that has been your rival. You just can't do that. But if you just look at it from Ray's side, which took me a long time to look at it that way, he did the best thing for him. He really did. He went to a team that was younger. He went to us, but younger. And he was the older guy now. So you can't bought him. And the loyalty piece to him was like, well, you guys almost traded me.

So why should I have loyalty? So once that happens. Yeah, it's over. Well, last question on this. If you can only pick one, Warriors or Lakers, to rally over now we're almost at the 40-game mark, who would you bet on to rally? You can only have one pick.

Oof, I'm going Lakers. I think I am too. The problem with the Lakers is they haven't had the Davis or LeBron injury yet, which would be kind of crazy if they didn't. So what happens if they're missing one of those guys for 10 games? Now you said the same about the Warriors, but I think Curry is a little bit better. All right,

we'll take a break. And then we got to talk about Phoenix. Jesus. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer.

Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers,

host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. After decades of shaky hands caused by debilitating tremors, Sunnybrook was the only hospital in Canada who could provide Andy with something special. Three neurosurgeons, two scientists, one movement disorders coordinator, 58 answered questions, two focused ultrasound procedures, one specially developed helmet, thousands of high intensity focused ultrasound waves, zero incisions. And that very same day, two steady hands. From innovation to action, Sunnybrook is special. Learn more at sunnybrook.ca slash special. All right, Phoenix.

Not sure if you saw last night, but... I saw. They looked horrible against Clippers. They looked worse against Memphis the other night because they had a lead and Memphis came back. Yep. Man. They've been disappointing, to say the least.

Have you done one of their games since Bill came back or no? No, I've done three of their games, just none with Bill yet. You know, Bill, I don't know. I watch them because I really think on paper, when you look at them, they're pretty good. Yeah. They're a paper team right now. They're not a very tough team. I will say that about them.

And that's just how they're built in some ways. But there's something going on. Like, um, they're just, they're not happy. You know, you know, like there's times you can watch teams and the best time to do it is whoever wins it. And you watch how they play. They play with a certain joy, right? When you watch Denver play, there's a joy to their game that you don't watch.

Win or lose. Yeah, win or lose. You just, well, and usually that always happens to teams that are on that journey and they're about to win. I think the Celtics have that right now. I got to be honest.

I really genuinely think they have it. They absolutely, I said it on air. I said they are a team right now with no issues you know there's always some but they just they throw the ball to the right guy they play the right way yeah they compete the right way and tatum and brown and brazingas and holiday they just fit yeah Yeah, and White. Don't forget my favorite Celtic, Derek White.

Yeah, he should be an all-star. He should, honestly. I think he will be because the coaches vote. Me too. And he's the type of player that the coaches will vote for. So I would be surprised if he's not in the all-star team. But they all play right. They come out of a timeout late game.

And what do the Celtics do? Most of the time, they put the ball in White's hand in a pick and roll with someone. Not last night. That's why they lost the Indiana game. Somehow that bet narrative got lost last night. But yeah, most of the time they do. And he makes the right decision.

So they're just, you know. Well, did you notice how they put Tatum on Shea last week in the last seven minutes? Yeah. And I was talking about this last week. Instead of, oh, I'm going to go mano a mano with Shea, and he'll score and I'll score. He was like, no, I'm actually just going to guard Shea.

Somebody else can score for us. And when he did that, I was like, oh, shit, we might win the title now. No, I'm telling you. They are, and I watched them when they shit, we might win the title now. No, I'm telling you. I watched them when they were at their peak so far this year when they came in and beat the Clippers and then beat the Lakers. They were playing unbelievable. But it was beautiful how they were playing.

It's beautiful watching how Denver played. When Golden State is playing right, the joy. You watch Phoenix, you don't see that. You see everybody wanting the ball, see a lot of pouting, a lot of disagreements, the body language. Like, you know, as a coach, every coach, we study it, Bill. Like, we study it. We study it with us. We study it with every other team that we watch.

And every coach in the league is convinced his team is more screwed up than the other team. And then when you go to dinner one night with the staff of the other team, I always go back to the Chuck Daly statement, never underestimate the crap that's going on. You can never underestimate the crap that's going on. Right. You can never underestimate it. When you watch Phoenix, it jumps off the screen.

Yeah. Could you feel it in person too? I did. I said it in the second game. You watch them come out of timeouts. You can almost, there's certain teams, and there's certain guys, especially, that you watch a team come out of the timeout as a coach,

I can say, well, the ball's not going to him. And you can see that with them. Boy, I'm surprised because Devin is competitive and maybe too competitive at times. I think, like Draymond, Devin's a guy that guys go at him, you know, because they know he'll, and he gets into that one-on-one exchange. And so that's an area of growth for him.

That's where he has to get better. KD, same way, you know. But the one thing I watched last night is how many tough shots they take. They take a lot of difficult shots. Offensively, they have to be better.

Defensively, they have to be better. Think about that. They have KD and Booker and they get not great shots. That doesn't make sense. The problem is both of those get not great shots. That doesn't make sense. Well, the problem is both of those guys take tough shots. And if you keep taking tough shots, enough

of them, they're all not going to go in and those become tough shots. Gordon, I thought, was a perfect fit and I still do. Coming off the bench and scoring, he's not happy with his role. They're not happy because Bill's missed so many games.

They just, you know, the one thing we have to say, we have to wait to see if Bill can stay healthy. Oh, please. Come on. If Bill can stay healthy. Good luck. Yeah. They're 11 and 11 at home, which is alarming.

Alarming. 17th defensively but katie's missed seven games booker's missed nine beals missed 22 the the thing that jumps out to me other than all the body language stuff because i've been talking about on this pod like it's just you can tell when it doesn't seem something's off, whatever it is. The clutch stuff is really bad with them. And you can even go and you can look at the advanced, like KD, he's in clutch situations. He's 0.91 points a game.

Right. To put it in perspective, Harden's at like 1.22. Kawhi's at 1.2. Like KD perennially has always been really good at the end of games. And this year he's not. To me, it's like they've tried to reinvent the wheel with we don at the end of games. And this year he's not. To me, it's like they've tried to reinvent the wheel with we don't need a point guard. And guess what?

Unless you have LeBron, maybe you kind of need a point guard. Guess what the league has had for eight decades? Point guards. You were a former point guard. It's really hard for me to accept that they think they can just run everything through Beal, Booker, and Durant. If I'm the other team, I'm like, this is great. We're just going to pressure you guys when we need to. We're going to make it uncomfortable for you.

We're going to put those guys in pick and rolls with our Jalen Brunson or Shea or whoever we have. And you don't have anyone on the floor who can guard them. It just seems fundamentally like a bad strategy. I don't like it. Yeah, and then at the end of the games, that's part of what I was saying. Book and KD, they make

a lot of them, but they take a lot of tough shots. Where, you know, maybe having a point guard, maybe having someone to get them the ball in their right spot. But most of the time, they're going into an iso to end the game. And, you know, over and over again, those are difficult shots.

That's why Harden fits. And I told you that, Bill. That's why Harden fits the Clippers. Yeah. Because the Clippers didn't have anybody that could make a pass. You know, they're already an iso team. And the biggest thing with Harden, when you watch, is he's setting those two guys up,

but more importantly, they have a pick and roll game again because Zoop now has become unbelievable. And that's due to James Harden. So am I going to have to admit defeat on this Clippers? I thought the heart of trade was just a horrendous idea by them. And I didn't understand why they gave so much.

I thought it was one of the dumbest things they've ever done in the franchise. And yet, they're 20-6 in their last 26. The numbers, Kawhi's last 15 games, four last night, he was shooting 60%, 53% from three. Harden's last 20, he's shooting 46% from three. Paul George's last 16, 45% from three.

Zubat's 14 and 11, shooting almost 70%. This is a long, sustained offensive excellence that when you watch it, feels legitimate. Bill, who is deeper? Who has more talent? Just forget the fit. Who has more talent than the Clippers? If you're just saying, don't think about durability,

don't think about chemistry, maybe just the Celtics and that's it. I don't think the Celtics. I don't think anyone has more talent. If you're adding like Norm Powell and people like that. If you go eight to nine deep, there is not a team more talented

in the NBA. I don't even think it's close in the clippers all right they're now they kind of fit now better too um russ coming off the bench norman russ brings them energy uh zoob and james together j James is playing terrific basketball, but he fits them more. He gets to have the ball in his hands and that's what he wants. He has a big that Rose, his biggest complaint in Philly is Joe didn't roll, but we wanted to give Joe the ball.

We didn't need him to roll. And Joe is proving that that was right too. So this is a fit for him and for the team. The biggest question is defensively, could he hold out? And the second question and the biggest thing is, Ty would tell you this, they're healthy. They're all playing. What are the odds of that?

I'm going to say five to one. Yeah, Kawhi's missed a few of late, but he every night uh paul george hasn't missed james never missed that's the one thing and i've always been consistent with that with james he's a baller he's not gonna miss a lot of games he wants to play every night he is like what he is like basically carl malone in more ways than one like one of the most durable players of all time and probably similar playoff success. You're right, but there's the two versions of James. Right now, we're getting the happy facilitator James, which is your favorite version of James. We haven't seen the, oh wait, I didn't make the All-Star game even though I'm facilitating all of this.

Yeah, and he should have, clearly. I'm saying even this year. What if he doesn't make it this year? I think this year at least he has the ball in his hands where with us he didn't have the ball he had the ball a lot but he had to give it to joe he still had the ball a ton but a lot of times you know giving the joe the ball on the elbow and being a cutter mover just that's not how he wanted to play yeah you know always say everyone says they want to win until you tell them they have to do something different, right? But this role for him, whether he makes it or not, he still is the facilitator, and he has the ball. He gets to make the plays.

And that's what he is, and that's what he wants to do. So I think I don't see an unhappy James Cumming. That doesn't mean he'll be you know efficient in the playoffs that's where he has to improve the one thing i will say that will help him and my biggest knock against james it's hard to win when you have one player that just dominates the ball right yeah well on the clippers they don't have that. Yeah. It's moving. Yeah. Right. And so that kind of protects that narrative where if you take James out, he still can be effective on the Clippers, you know?

And so I think, listen, you, my four teams, if you got to go to in the West and two in the East. They moved into your top two? Them and Denver in the West for me. I know we love Minnesota. Minnesota has some signs lately.

Listen, they had a fight in the playoffs last year. Yeah. The fight was not against the opposing team. Right. Until they year yeah and the fight was not against the opposing team right you know so until they can show that they can perform under the pressure of the playoffs i'm just i love them but i'm just not buying them yet a little bit different of a bullseye with them too where now people know they're good so night after night you gotta bring it but they're i i watch them a lot because i like watching them they're asking a lot because I like watching them.

They're asking a lot from Conley at this point in his career. And there's just nights when he doesn't have it. Edwards is still trying to figure out what he is as a top 20 guy. And there's some nights when sometimes he seems to want certain things from the game that maybe the game doesn't need. So they're a work in progress. I'm not counting them out. I would go Denver OKC

and I'd probably have the Clippers third. But, you know, under the caveat of all those guys have to stay healthy. Yeah, I just think in the playoffs, the Clippers are deeper than everybody. Great coach. They're a great coach and they're deep with veterans.

They don't have... Everyone on their team is a vet. And, man, that's going to be a tough out for someone. then they don't have everyone on their team is a bet. And man, that's going to be a tough out for someone. I just, I look at them, they're so deep. I don't know how everyone's not going to play back.

And that's where James helps too on the night that Paul George goes AWOL. Yeah, you're right. You just got to go two for three. That's exactly right. And that's one of the reasons they did the trade is because on the nights of regular season games when Kawhi doesn't play,

you still have Paul and James. You know, you bring in Norman Powell. Yeah. And they're just, you bring in Russ. They are deep and they're going to be a handful in the playoffs. Well, they're pot committed to this season. They're spending an incredible amount of money and they've spent all their picks

for the chance they have this year. And the money they don't care about. Well, I know they don't care about that. The picks and the future. They have no future. They have no future. They have to win. They have to win this year and next year. Other than that, they answer, he will give you the answer. So to me, that's an easy one.

Because when the playoffs start and if he plays great and they go deep, then there's your answer. If he doesn't, then there's your answer. So that's an easy one. But if I told you Kawhi was going to be awesome and look like 2019 Kawhi again. If that Harden trade, I don't know if the Harden trade was the catalyst to it or whether Kawhi is just finally healthy again.

I still think they might have been really good even if they didn't make the trade just because of how good Kawhi is. Like just, he is one of the, there's seven top guys in the league and then Kawhi is the eighth depending on how healthy he is. Like if you're just going to rank the players right now.

The way he's playing right now is like he's on the level of all the other best guys. Kawhi is as good as anybody in the league right now. Yeah. But we wouldn't have said that a year ago. Or we wouldn't have said that two months ago. He wasn't healthy. And he's healthy now. So he's back to what he was, basically.

But I disagree in the fact they wouldn't be this good without James. No, I agree with that. They needed a point guard in a desperate way. When I was talking to them, meaning the Clippers about the trade, that's all they kept talking about. We need a facilitator. We need someone who can pass.

He's done it. The one thing the guy has, his vision and his ability to set you up is, is as good as anybody in the league. And I said, if he stays with that, you guys are going to be hard to beat. If he doesn't,

you guys aren't going to be hard to beat, you know, that's the bottom line. So, uh, yeah, I think he does help both guys. This is shaking my prognosticating confidence.

Cause I was just like, this is a disaster. And I don't know what version they're getting of James. And you watch them, and I went to a couple games, and I'm like, man, that looked pretty good. Those three guys, they share the ball really nicely. You're watching their offense, and sometimes James will get rid of it, and I'll circle around and go

in the right corner. And then all of a sudden he's getting a wide open three. I'm like, man, that looked good. And then Zoo has like the little alley-oop from somebody cuts in and all of a sudden he's at the rim with his arms up, which he's really good at. I'm like, oh, that looked good too. And you just see it enough and it's like, hey, this team's good.

Give Tyson credit too because you know, I thought it was going to work early, and I was on record as saying that. I just like the fact that James is a point guard. But Ty had to make some tough decisions and some right ones. You know, putting Russ on the bench, not playing Tucker.

I think those are all the right decisions, you know? And that's one of the things I've always liked about Ty. Like, he will make it. And he will just take the heat, you know? You know, there's been grumblings that, like, B.J. Tucker's not happy. Okay. Well, that's fine.

But you're still not going to play. Right. You know? And the checks come in every two weeks. Yeah. And he doesn't fit the team and the way they need to play. And so I think those decisions are so hard to make and ties down there. All right.

We're going to take a break. We got to talk about Milwaukee. And then I have a story time thing to throw at you that I have not told you about. I could tell you a story about blank and I know you'll have a story. All right. That's next. All right, that's next. All right, let's talk about Milwaukee.

We hit the suns, I felt like, enough. Work in progress, but it's a team that probably needs a point guard. And I don't know how they get it because they've traded away everything. So now it's on Beal and I don't know what kind of player he is. Whatever. Milwaukee. A team that we were a little dubious of defensively before the season,

first part of the season. Another team that's not passing the body language happy test for me. Giannis, who is, I think, if he's not the most competitive guy in the league, he's in the top three. He's taking these, like, I don't know if you saw the game

last night, they lose and he was just like crouched on the floor like they had just lost game seven. I was like, oh my God,

this guy is like, he's taking all these losses. He's been, there's, it's been a pretty aggro Giannis this year. Pretty interesting.

Um, but they just can't get stopped. So this isn't the type of Bucks team he wants to be involved in. Um, when do we start getting

truly concerned about this? Last night was awful. I've been concerned. I told you that. I still think, I'm going to make a statement and you're going to be shocked. I'm not that worried about their defense. Okay. Tell me why. I think

they have to be more efficient offensively. If they become more efficient offensively, they will be a little bit better defensively. I think that's where the unhappiness is coming from. Now, having said that. Are you saying because they haven't figured out the Damianis last four minutes? Yeah.

100% yet. Okay. Yeah, I think that has to happen. Those two have to play together, play the two-man game more. Giannis has to be a roller and a picker and a straight-line driver more with that. And I think they're going to figure it out.

I do. Because I think you have two guys that really want to win. Uh, you watch Dave, like to me, he's trying almost too hard to fit in and that's fine. Like if I got a team where a guy's trying too hard to fit in, I'm, I'm, I'm as a coach, I'm like, we're in a pretty good spot. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? That's going to work its way out at some point.

I think Giannis at times is trying too hard to show that he's a score. You know, and, you know, how about this statement? The guys can score 50 in a game and 40 in a game. You know, at the end of the game, you would rather for someone else to have the ball in their hand because of the free throw ability and everything else someone else to have the ball in their hand because of the free throw ability and everything else, and him to be the other option in that.

And so, I think they have to figure that part out. But that's going to take time. Well, and then their bench, I don't know if they're going to figure out that bench. Because it's bad. Yeah, they need guard help at the bench, in their bench spots. I think they need one help at the bench, in their bench spots.

I think they need one more guard. Not a great guard, just a solid player. A veteran guard. Somebody you're related to? Well, he would be great there, but I don't mention his name. Yeah, no, we don't need to, but I think he could probably help. Yeah, he would be a really good fit there. And then, you know, the defensive part, like, okay, so this is what – these are like all these things that happen in meetings and in your locker room.

All right, Dane, we're going to start playing through you a lot more down the stretch of games. And what are you going to do on the other end? You know what I mean? Like, you can't give up, have someone give up something on this end and you don't give up something on the other. Right.

And so, you know, and I've had this with players like Jamal Crawford, you know, who was not known as the greatest defensive player, but I said it in front of the team. I said, okay,

guys, listen, if I put your ball on anyone that's really good, that's bad coaching. Right. All right. I said, having said that, Jamal, you have to be in the right spot every time. That's all I'm asking.

I'm asking you to rotate to the right spot and be in the right spot. That's all I'm asking you to do. And he did those things. You know, I think Dane, you watch him, he's inconsistent in some of the things he does defensively. And if you're one of the guys

that have been there, and that's the issue, because this team is one. And so you have guys like Portis, and Giannis, and Lopez, and Middleton, they all know what you have to do to win. And if you don't do those things,

they may not say it, but they'll grumble about it. And so you see that on both ends. You see it on the offensive end where probably at times the ball should have been thrown ahead to Dane. They should have played more through Dane and you got to get Dane more involved so he can be happy. But then you see it on the defensive end at times when Dane's not doing the things that he wants. Anybody who thinks like Dane should be this great defensive player, that's just stupid. You know what I mean? Like, Dame is what he is,

but he can still be something on that end. He is a competitive dude. And so that's why I've sounded the alarm as far as they're not where they need to be, but they still are right there. Who's your top three in the East? Boston, Philly. I would

put Miami over Milwaukee. I trust their pedigree more and I think what Hawkeyes has brought to them and Butler we know goes up a level in the postseason. I worry they're a big short. If we're just talking about

how would this team be? Boston? They don't have enough size. I think the Porzingis could worry they're a big short. If we're just talking about how would this team be Boston, they don't have enough size. I think the Porzingis could be a real problem with them. They've got a lot of good players, man. I like watching them, even though I can't stay in Miami. I like watching them because other guys don't want to play basketball. The ball moves. People go. They just play

the right kind of hoops. They're held accountable. They play right. It's culture. We keep going back You know, they, it's, it's culture. We keep going back to that same thing, but it is, and it's a true thing,

you know, and I always use it in football with the Steelers. The Steelers, by the way. I know, making the playoffs,

it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. That was the worst, it's the worst team in football history to make the playoffs. They are, they are awful.

And they're probably going to beat Buffalo. Yeah, they can say they're going to beat Buffalo and that's Mike Tomlin and just that whole Steeler thing. That's what Miami is. Who wants to play them? No one. No one

wants to play Miami. And they're good. Hockess is, boy, is he fun to watch. I just think they would beat, I think they would beat Milwaukee again. I think they're kind of built. That's a good matchup for them. They'd have the confidence. I think they would absolutely torture Dame defensively.

The other thing with Dame is, now this is a nine game stretch. This is his last nine games. But he's shooting 28% from three, 38%. And eye test-wise, hasn't looked great. And maybe it's what you said, like he's trying too hard. But he's also an older guard. I don't trust older guards in the same way.

I trust him. I just think he's trying to find where to fit in offensively still. And it's not there. And you think about it, Dame has naturally had the ball, been playing free, and all of a sudden he's trying to figure it out. So that's going to take

all year. It really will. But I think by the end of the year, I'm telling you, Milwaukee's going to be tough. So you have them. You have Boston, Philly, Milwaukee as your three, then Miami four? Yeah, and Miami as the most dangerous of all of them. Because I tell you, you're right.

I was looking at them against the Lakers with Hawkins and then Jimmy Butler. Duncan Robinson is playing unbelievable for them as well. And we know Caleb Martin when he comes back. They just have length everywhere. And then, you know, Hero didn't play last year in the playoffs. So, you know, some say that was a good thing. No, it wasn't. They needed a scoring,

especially against Denver. So all those things would be good. There's a Lowry trade with them, too, that they could experiment with because he's an expiring. He makes a lot. There's a move. He's still important. He's played there's a move. He's still important. He's played pretty well this year.

He really has. But they do have moves potentially. But I like the team. They'll get some buyout, big guy, and they'll probably be fine. All right. Story time. Ricky Davis. Give us your best Ricky Davis story.

You coach Ricky Davis, who I don't know how he has avoided the retired player podcast circuit, but Ricky, if you want a podcast, The Ringer, it would be the only player podcast I did other than Austin. Ricky, feel free. We'll send you some mics. Let me tell you, very hard to coach because he was wild. And wild is not even doing it justice. He was wild on the floor. He was wild in life

off the floor. But Ricky, you're talking about irrational confidence. Oh, yeah. He thought he was the best player in the league. Every night. Every night. And he was competitive offensive offensively at least, about it. But he had this saying, Ricky Davis gets all the big bucks. You know, makes all the big buckets.

You know, me and that. And he said it every night. It drove me crazy at times because he literally believed it. Like, he would come into the locker room. Ricky Davis makes all the big buckets. I mean, he said it over and over to the point that he believed it.

He was that irrational offensively. It also was what made him great. He is athletic. He was one of those guys, and I hate to say this, like, I mean, Zach Levine, like, either you're going to go the winning way

or you're going to go the Ricky way. You're going to have to figure out which way you are. Ricky was tough, though, in this, for me, Bill, because he's a very likable personality. Right. You know, there's some guys that just wear you out as a coach and you just want them away from your guys. Ricky in the locker room and around the guys, you know, was phenomenal

because he was so funny. He was just funny all the time. And sometimes you need that around your team. So I don't have a crazy Ricky Davis story except for that part of what he said all the time and he believed it. That led to the worst shots in NBA history at times. Is it fair to say maybe not a great teammate

for Paul Pierce at a point of Paul Pierce's life in his 20s when maybe he also liked to go out at night a little bit? No, no. Yeah, Ricky and Paul, probably not a good combination for Paul. Or as Ricky may say, maybe Paul wasn't a good combination for Ricky because they both loved the nightlife. Well, I remember when Ricky got traded, Paul then had the best season of his career, I think, the next year. It was one of those, maybe it was good to get Ricky off the team. But let me tell you, with Paul, we always said,

when Paul got on the bus in the morning for shoot around and he had sunglasses on, the whole coaching staff looked at each other and was like, oh my gosh, Pierre's here. We used to call him Pierre. We used to say, Pierre's here. We're in trouble sunglasses Paul was Pierre yeah that was not not a good day for us

so if it wasn't if Ricky Davis wasn't the biggest character you ever played or coached played with or coached who was the number one biggest character

well character goes in a lot of different ways because Ricky would definitely be at the top of the character list as far as just wowed. If we were making a TV show and you wanted to be like,

oh, we need this kind of crazy Ricky Davis type character, wouldn't Ricky Davis kind of be the model for the character? Yeah, Ricky. I had Lance Stevenson. Oh, that's a good one. Yeah have ricky and lance you know what next podcast we got to get the all just wow crazy uh team oh that'd be yeah i'll give you time to work on that you got to make a list yeah you got to do like a five-man team and like

a bench but those two are on it i can tell. Well, Big Baby's got to be on it. Big Baby, Mark Bump may be on it. I mean, we had some characters, you know, that were just wild. Some was, yeah. That would be a fun list. Alright, we'll do that next time. Okay.

We have to talk about this Bears thing. You don't really get to flex your football muscles. Fields wasn't great in the last game. Yeah. Fields wasn't great. They defended him a certain way. I was disappointed.

I bet on the Bears. Now they're in this situation. The number one pick. They also have like, they have another, I forget the other pick they have. It's like number eight or number 10. Yeah, like seven or eight.

They have two picks. They could trade fields and that would create problems. Another first round pick or something. Or like a high second rounder. Yeah. I think they're going to take Caleb Williams with the number one pick and

figure it out would be my guess. It seems like all the football people just in general are like, why would they trade down? Like they don't know if it, and that fields is going to get, I thought fields did enough that you, would it make sense to just like dump them?

And maybe you take Caleb Williams and you keep fields and you just kind of see where it goes, but that's where, so where's your head at it with this? I think you have to take Caleb Williams, you know, and that, that scares me because he didn't have a great year this year. And there's been some things personality-wise with him. So I don't know if it's Caleb Williams.

I just know whoever – this is a great quarterback year. And so whoever is the best quarterback, that's who you hope the Bears figure out and take. That's number one. I actually – I don't love Fields, but I don't dislike him. You know what I mean? Like, he's right in the middle of that. But he's had three or four years now, and I think you already, they know.

If they don't know by now, Phil, like, let me say this. As a coach, you give me two years with any player, you know. You know where he's going, what he thinks he can be. I had one year with Shane. And I told you before, Shane's going to be a superstar. I said that year. I had one year with Tyrese Maxey. And, you know, someone reminded me.

I kept saying, I'm telling you guys he's a great shooter. I don't want to hear that he's not. So you know. So they know what they have in fields, and I think they know and they're going to move them. And the Bears have a chance, and this is the scary part because it's up to Bears management, which hasn't been good, Bill, over the years.

Now they've got new management in, and I'm praying this is the right group. They have a chance to draft a quarterback, hopefully a generational quarterback, trade and get offensive line help. All right? One big stud receiver, possibly. Yeah. I mean, it would be the ultimate draft would be getting Harrison from Ohio State and Caleb Williams.

Or the kid from Washington, who I think may be just as good as Harrison. You get those two and then offense and line help. You got a chance to change your franchise overnight. Can you give me your top three Bears quarterback of your lifetime? Oh, it's not a great list. It's pretty great. It's so funny. They're in this situation now.

They've never had any quarterbacks ever. Well, well, my favorite is Bobby Douglas. Oh, well, you go into the seventies. Okay.

Yeah. Because Bobby Douglas ran for a000 and passed 4,000. Right. That's impressive. Jim McMahon would be right there as well. And then, man, that third guy. Oh, the list. Jay Cutler?

No, no, no. He was talented. Yeah. Rex Grossman got him to the Super Bowl. He did. You know? So you got to give him that. Those are my three.

That's not a good list. Can you imagine? I've been a Bears fan my entire life, and that's my quarterback list? Listen, I was a Pats fan, and Bledsoe was by far the greatest quarterback we had. And then all of a sudden Brady showed up, and our fortunes were forever changed. But you had one other guy. You had Bledsoe.

Who was before Bledsoe? Well, we had some Steve Grogan, some Tony Eason. Yeah, you had some decent quarterback play. And then you had the GOAT. Then we had the GOAT. Yeah, you can never complain about quarterback play in New England. Jim McMahon was by far the best quarterback of the Bears in their history. But I love Bobby Douglas.

Do you have a take on the Super Bowl? This is a hard one this year, as hard as any. You know, before, two weeks ago, no matter how Philly was playing, I was still convinced they were going. And now I'm not convinced of that at all. I can't see Dallas going, but they could. I tell you the team that I think the dark horse is the Buffalo Bills. Oh, interesting. Okay. Make the case.

I think they are just dangerous. They've been in the playoffs for six weeks now. They've been playing playoff games for six weeks now. They've been fighting tooth and nail. They're better. The two best teams by far, to me right now, are the Ravens and the 49ers. Right, which is why that can't be the Super Bowl

because the football never works that way. One of those two teams is going to choke. And I don't know which one. One of them won't make it. And that would be a shame because I would love that to be the Super Bowl. And the reason is it would be the most physical Super Bowl

we've seen in a long time. Because those two teams bring it. And that would be a fun game to watch. I don't know what to make a Buffalo anymore because they play like absolute shit. Allen throws

two terrible picks. Oh, fumbles. You know, he overthrows Diggs on a 60-yarder. He has a fumble. They fuck up the end of the

first half, like get no points and it's like, you just can't play worse than that and then it's like a basketball team. All of a sudden,

they can just hit threes for 20 minutes and they're winning and you're like, how just can't play worse than that. And then it's like a basketball team. All of a sudden they could just hit threes for 20 minutes and they're winning. And you're like, how are they winning? Oh, because they just hit 10 threes. And then you have the Golden State Warriors. That's Kansas City. 100%. You know, like who wants to play them?

Right. And then the team that I would love to see, I've been a big Cleveland guy for the last couple of years. I mean, they're playing, they're the best defense. So that's my sleeper. And that's the one, if I had to go sleeper where it's not Ravens, not Niners, I would go Browns, Niners.

Because I think the Browns could put it together. The Packers are becoming interesting, but now it seems like everybody kind of likes them against Dallas, which means Dallas will probably beat them. Yeah, Dallas is going to win that game. Dallas, everyone's scared to pick them, including me.

There's something about them. They're good, man. Are they over hype because they're Dallas? They are. Maybe that's it, but I wouldn't pick Dallas. They've earned it, but I just wouldn't pick them. No.

What's your next ESPN game? Warriors and Pelicans tomorrow. You're getting under the hood with the Warriors tomorrow. Yeah, I can't wait. I'm going to go talk to Steve. Yeah. You got the coach interview before it.

Steve. Close the door. Yeah. Steve and I are having a closed door meeting tomorrow. All right. Well, say hi to him for us. Doc.

Good to see you as always. Thank you. You too, Bill. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Doc Rivers. Thanks to Kyle Creighton and Steve Cerruti.

I'll be back on this feed on Thursday with a pretty massive NFL playoff preview. Stay tuned. See you then. I don't have a few years with him on the wayside on the front side I don't have Must be 21 plus

in President's like states. Fando is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit fandle.com slash RG in Colorado, Iowa, Kentucky, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, Vermont, and Virginia.

You can call 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 in Arizona. Call 1-888-789-777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. 1-800-9-WITH-IT in Indiana. 1-800-522-4700 or visit ksgamblinghelp.com in Kansas. 1-877-770-STOP in Louisiana. mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. 1-800-GAMBLER.NET in West Virginia, or 1-800-522-4700 in Wyoming. Hope is here. Visit GamblingHopeLineMA.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts, or call 1-877-8HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.