The Bill Simmons Podcast - The Wizards Win (Something!) and More Lottery Reactions, Plus the Juggernaut Knicks With Joe House, Tate Frazier, and Chris Vernon

Episode Date: May 11, 2026

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Tate Frazier and Joe House to recap the NBA draft lottery and to preview the possible lottery picks (0:31). Then, Chris Vernon joins to give his thoughts on Memphis’s no. 3 pick and to catch up on the NBA playoffs (53:05). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Joe House, Tate Frazier, and Chris Vernon Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo #ULTRACourtside could get you closer to the game! https://michelobultra.com/courtside MICHELOB ULTRA®️ COURTSIDE ’25 to ’26. No Purchase Necessary. Open to US residents 21 plus. Begins on October 1, 2025 and ends on June 30, 2026 Multiple entry periods. See Official Rules at https://michelobultra.com/courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes, and details. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit https://fanduel.com/playwithaplan to learn more about the resources and helplines Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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What a special day here on the Bill Simmons podcast, live on Netflix. Tate Frazier is here. Employee number one at the Ringer back in 2015, now a host for us on a ringer tailgate, pops on a bunch of our shows, a college basketball expert, dare I would say. And more importantly, because Zach Lowe couldn't be here today because he was at the lottery, watching Joe House's favorite team. Oh, yeah. We called it.

We called it to being Joe House. You finally got the number one pick and an awesome draft. I've known you since 1988, September. We ate food and played pickup basketball together. That's how this all started. I have never seen your Wizards

even made the conference finals. You've never had a truly awesome player in your team. You've had fun players. You've had good players. You haven't had an awesome player. How are you feeling? Well, let me say right up front that it is, of course,

ridiculous, irrational for a grown-ass man with a mortgage to derive such enormous pleasure, joy for something as dumb as where the ping-pong balls land. But let me tell you right now, I apologize to absolutely fucking nobody. The champ is in the house. Number one is right here, baby. And we got it done with my guy number two, John Wall in that chair. And look what we do. We do the doggy.

John Wall. I'm just glad you have pants on. Well, I was encouraged to whip my dick out. Now, if you'll indulge me, I'd like to offer. I did prepare an acceptance speech for today. I did a little acceptance speech. Oh, Tating that clear out. Let's hear it.

Yeah, let's hear it. So I have to start with my wife because today is Mother's Day. And she agreed that we could end Mother's Day today at 3 o'clock p.m. Eastern so I could get in, locked in. That focus was crucially important. Good karma. Good karma. Plus you probably had some drinks at brunch were there. So you're feeling great.

We did that. The Bloody Mary's. That put us in the right frame of mind. Huge thanks to Ernie Grunfeld, to Tommy Shepherd, to Jan Bessaly, to Johnny Davis. all the way up to this moment. Finally, with incredible infrastructure, a brain trust who created the tank of all tanks, a tank so brilliant and beautiful in execution

that the league had to change the goddamn tank. We'll never have a lottery like this again. I'd like to thank Coach Brian Keefe, Sharif Cooper, Juju Reese, Jemir Watkins, Alainez Williams, all the guys, they put their part out. All my old D.C., John O'Rand, We'll go all the way back to Wizznuts. Shout out to Wizznats.

My guy, Dan Shannoff, Christian Denecky, all of the old heads are so over the top with this one. We got our guy. We got the number one pick, and I'll humbly accept the number one selection today. Emotional stuff. Tate, they earned it. They went one for 24 in their last 25

with the net rating of minus 14.6. I think somewhere in there was the BAM out of bio, 83 point game. Yeah. Which was one of the, the most humiliating nights in the history of the NBA. Thank you, Bam. They traded for two expensive former superstars that just didn't play all year.

Trey Young and Anthony Davis played it perfectly. Just a win from start to finish. 50 wins in the last three years, Tate, for the Wizards, and it's finally paid off. Congratulations. Yeah, worst record in the NBA, it kind of feels like they deserved it, right? Finally, we see the team with the worst record get the number one pick, so that was encouraging to see. And I just love Joe House.

I mean, he's like out of breath right now. as he gives us like his full breakdown. It's going to be a sweaty two hours today. Can we talk about how the rig for this year was the anti-rig? The brilliance of Adam Scholar. It was. The tremendous zag was that the teams with the worst records grab the top three picks.

Now the Brooklyn Nets were on the outside looking in. But when you did your karma rankings with Nick Wright, magnificent as always, by the way. Thank you. Shout out Nick Wright. My buddy. We've never met. friends. You didn't have Brooklyn very high. You thought it was like, you know, did Brooklyn deserve the

karma, right? I thought their first rounders were so stupid last year I had to deduct points. I just didn't understand anything they did. Yeah, when you think about it, and we'll talk about Indiana and the clippers in a second, because that was the most momentous thing that happened other than who got the number of pick. But for the most part, like Golden State didn't move up, Atlanta didn't get in the top four as a possible Yonah suiter. Nothing truly goofy happened. you would think the league would want to take care of Indiana, a team that lost their best guy to a terrible Achilles injury in Game 7, and not give the fifth pick to the Quippers, but that's what happened. We have to talk about this. I really want to dive in that quipper thing.

We have to talk about this Washington pick because it seems like AJ is the guy. I predicted this to you, Tate, two months ago. Yeah. I was just like, this is a rap. AJ is going to be the guy, and it seems like he's the guy. Kuhnappa mentioned there was a look on his face after the, after the lottery. There was a picture that got sent around about a half hour later where it looked like not just one of his dogs died, but like he had three dogs that he grew up with and they all died in the same explosion in livery room or something. Do you see a world where he doesn't go number one here, whether either somebody trades into this spot or Washington says screw it and takes Darren Peterson? Yeah, it could be like a Chris Weber situation, right, where like a team really loves them

and they don't like the fit. So maybe they trade up to get him at number one. It does feel like Utah. obviously has invested. I mean, I don't even know how many years, what, five years, seven years. Yeah. I mean, you run the numbers about all the millions of dollars from the BYU and IL to when he went out there to play for high school. He's been in Utah for quite a long time. So I think in his mind, when he got to the final four, he's thinking, all right, Adam Silver, he cooked the books for me. I'm going to stay in Utah. I'm going to be a happy camper. This is going to be great. And then when number two popped up, you could just see it. He was like, oh, wow, this is real. He's like, where's Washington?

Is that near Philly? I think it hit him in real time. I also saw a lot of people saying that he was like, you know, he's a very no-nonsense, all-business type of guy. So that was an all-business response. I do think he had a little bit of like, oh, man, I'm not going to go to Utah. But it leads itself to a situation. We were already texting about this.

I mean, if you're Washington, maybe you call up, you know, and kind of see what they're willing to offer. Because obviously Utah is in love with him. There's also the other wrinkle where Carlos Boozer is a. scout for Utah and obviously has his son in the top three. And played for the jazz for a while. For the jazz, right. So like there may be something where they're happy there at number two and they're going to get Camboozer, which means Peterson could even fall back to a three, four range depending on what Memphis like. So I mean, I just think there's a lot of conversations to be had, which makes, you know, the one, two, three, four situation even more fun. Yeah, House and I,

we've already kind of ruined the podcast with a bunch of texts about this already. And basically, as soon as it all settled down, it's like, all right, House, let's say Utah really wants that number one pick, you only have to drop down one spot, and you could just take Darren Peterson and just make sure he doesn't put creatine in his creation drinks

and creatine in his green juices and just stays away from creatine. It took them a long time to come up with that excuse. You know what? It was a good one. You know what? I tried out the creatine a little bit, and it really screwed me up.

Yeah. Yeah, and it's not for everybody. We've seen it happen in golf, Ben Griffin, he had too much creatine one tournament. It was losing his mind. So, I mean, it's happened before. We've seen it in sports.

I recommended it to Kevin Wilds while I was, when I was trying it out. And now I think he's still doing it. I think he's all in and it. Well, maybe it works for him. But, you know, the innovation for Peterson was to wait. He waited enough time for like the stink of how his season played out to deliver the excuse six, seven weeks. We're all done with March Madness.

We're not thinking about Kansas basketball anymore. I have here is what was going on. We knew that there was a true story. Somebody was going to give us the, so I admire the innovation. The revelation. Yeah. The one thing I will say,

nobody, the Wizards are not calling anybody. Tate. I mean, Tate said maybe the Wizards call. The Wizards phone is sitting here. Yeah, they're taking AJ and you call them. If you want to call,

the phone's right here. You can call. We'll listen. Why wouldn't we're irrational? You call Joe House or the front office? You can clearly call. I'll have to. to Joe House. I'll take the call. And you know, the funny thing is the threads.

So from so many different sources, my phone's been buzzing relentlessly. And it's been all these congratulations. But everybody is wondering out loud about Utah because, you know, they made that big investment in DeBanta. And by they, I mean, Ryan Smith and BYU made an economic investment in DeBanza being physically in at BYU by BYU with the idea that he might. If the ping pong ball is Before their way House. They took them from Massachusetts

Yeah. And he went to prep school in Utah and ended up at BYU and this has been a thing that's been going on. Right. I don't remember if it's four years or five years. And it was always like, wow, if they could ever get AJ,

they're taking them. They're really familiar with them the whole thing. It's weird. It's also weird. Somebody is this excited to go to Utah? We haven't had that a lot in the league in the last 50 years. Haven't been a lot of people

panting to go their house. but we were, I sent you all the picks Utah has. So Utah's been building all this stuff, hoping to do a 125 cents in the dollar type of trade. They have a swap with the Lakers next year. In 27, they have the best two of Minneapolis, Minnesota, Cleveland, or Utah. They have a swap with Cleveland in 28.

They can do the best two of Cleveland, Utah, and Minnesota. And I'm saying two different, two of the three, the top two. they have their own first. And then they have this really nice Phoenix first in 2013 house. Devon Booker will be like 34 years old making $80 million. On top of some other guys they have.

So my thing is like if I like let's say they come to you and they give you two of those picks. They give you like censibaw and they give you number two just to move up one spot and you take Darren Peterson. Like are you sweating that? No, no. Two of those picks. I was wondering if the offer, if I was being too greedy,

looking for something like Ace Bailey, the number two, and one of those. That's the other way it could go. One of those future first. Just Ace Bailey and number two to move up to one? No, no. I need one of those future first as well. And one of those features.

Ace Bailey looked pretty good. Tate, didn't Ace Bailey want to go there last year? Yeah, that was where he was angling. That's what a lot of people thought that his agent was trying to get him to go there. So, yeah. I mean, honestly, Ace Bailey and two for one is a lot. Because I thought Ace looked good last year. I don't know if I would do that if I was Utah.

My thing is I would trade back. just because we've been arguing about which of these four guys are going to be the best guy for four months. And I don't even know if we have an answer. Tate, where'd you land? Yeah, I mean, I do think that AJ is number one. I feel comfortable with AJ, right? He wants to be the number one pick. That's the number one test.

Do you want to be the number one pick? AJ obviously wants to be the number one big. Peterson has worked his way through the media with these exclusive interviews to put out that he also obviously is willing to be the number one pick. I thought the interviews at the drug. What an awkward TV experience that is at the lottery, by the way, with like everyone. Can we talk about this? Yeah, please. So you have a half hour.

You have a half hour. You're ESPN. You have a half hour for the lottery. And then the next game starts. You spend the first 15 minutes having awkward interviews with the people sitting there, showing all the representatives, and then doing the same ping pong ball video this show every year. The lottery happens.

Four massive things happen in the lottery. And they just throw it right to the game. And it's like, what are you guys doing? How can you have handled this worse? Like, I would have had the lottery at three and then 15 minutes of discourse. Anyway, go on. So we both had AJ.

We both think AJ should be the first pick. But I wouldn't, it's not like a Wemby situation where you wouldn't bet your life he's going to be the best player 10 years from this draft. It could be any of these four guys, right? Yeah, I mean, I think you can talk yourself. I mean, I've seen boards that have boozer at number one, right? That seems like he's the safest of the four picks, right?

Hollinger had him one. Yeah, Hollinger had him one, which is a, you know, I think it's a fair point because if you look at Boozer's record, right? He's won at every single level. He obviously was national player of the year this year. You like the way that he carries himself. He is going to be a really good player at the next level. I think Caleb Wilson, obviously, is tantalizing.

I know you don't like the hairstyle that he had there at the... It's ambitious. Ambitious hair. I think he cleans it up, and I think he's going to be all right. But, I mean, just the high flyer and Sean Kemp has been thrown out there. KG has been thrown out there. Obviously, McGrady a little bit. I also think I see a lot of people with Caleb at the four.

I think he's going to end up being a wing. I think he's going to end up being a three. So I think he's one of those guys. Really? Yeah. I just think he has the athleticism to be out there. Maybe they slot him down at the four, you know, at some level. But I think Caleb's obviously in that conversation. And then Peterson, I saw Peterson in person at the Kansas Carolina game in the fall.

And, I mean, he didn't even have a great night, but, I mean, puts up 24 points with ease. And you're just like, man, this guy is so smooth, so easy. And obviously at the McDonald's All-American game, you saw a lot of people defer to him just because if he, you know, just the way he carries himself, if he calls himself Michael Myers of basketball, right? Like, I kind of like that, even though he's a little bit of a weirdo. Right. I think that might be a good thing. We told him, we said he was the Kauai of Guard.

So, again, you can kind of argue the Kaui of Guards house. Yeah, yeah, I could take the Kauai of guards. I'm not sure. He didn't show enough Michael Myers. It wasn't enough of a killer this season. I think AJ should be. I think AJ should be first. But I also feel like if you end up with Peterson and more stuff, that's a nice place to be.

and we've talked about this before when Tate and Kyle Manorah but the Peterson High School tape is out of control. It's out of control. I mean, he looks like he's going to be Kobe Bryant when you watch this stuff. And I thought,

it seemed like he had a little too much weight this year and we were talking. It just felt like he could never get going this season, which of course makes you nervous to take him one, but it also feels like he could just be spectacular.

It also feels like he didn't want to learn the college game. I mean, I know that's a little bit banal, but I just feel like It's such a different sport. It was just like, all right, I'll just skip this stage. I totally agree, Tate, what he showed us, body language-wise, attitude-wise, is my single goal is to not get hurt.

I will do this thing that is a required step. I will fulfill the requirement. Present? Present. He raises his hand. Are you here? Mr. Peterson is here. He's present.

And that's it. Get me the F out of here. I want to go be a pro basketball player. And here we are. The VP of common sense would be a little nervous about the wizards taking a guy who's already had major cramping issues and questions about his demeanor in his body. You're talking about the old wizards. Those are the old wizards.

That's not this wizard. That's old stuff. I don't know how. Bringing up the past. We're in the present, baby. One of the things I love about DeBantza is there's just no way. Like, he's already built like a 28-year-old man. Mm-hmm.

And I don't even know what his body's going to look like, you know, five, six years from now. but he's just got, there's some interesting stuff with him. There's some defensive metrics that aren't great with them. Hollinger pointed to, like for how athletic he is. Why isn't more stuff happening on that end? But I just,

to me, he feels like the perfect kind of, he could play the three, play the four. He's physical. He rebounds. He, you know,

I think he's really competitive. He really wanted to be the number one pick. I think that matters house. And if you drafted him and he actually could talk himself into going there, I just feel like it's a set thing. You know what it is. I don't know what the variance of it being bad.

I don't really see. With the ban said, no, no, no, no. That's why the ceiling with him feels like to me, the highest ceiling, just acknowledging that Caleb Wilson is more of an unknown quantity because the injury limited how much we got to see him against the highest comp, and especially in March Madness,

where you really get a chance to see like, okay, these are stakes. The guys are ramped up. Let's see it. So we were deprived of that with Wilson. But I feel like ceiling-wise, the bans is the whole thing. And he will definitely be cool with being here in Washington. AJ, strong.

We've had some more luck lately with nickname, acronym, acronym, first names. Dare I say, if he comes in right away, and I think, he's a 30 minutes a game guy next year, right, in the NBA. Yeah, 100%. I think he could be like a 15 and 8, like a 16 and 8, something like that. Is that conceivable? Yeah, and if you look at the front court with Washington, that's a fun front court, like as far as size,

you know what I mean? Like those three guys. So you put him and him and Saar and Anthony Davis with Trey Young and George and House Lerre Johnson. Like that's kind of a team. Yeah. The floor is Vijay Edgecombe. I think what we got out of Edgecombe this year for a guy that showed up ready.

Playing big minutes, yeah. Yeah. Ready. and he took that team, he more than any other player on that team, transformed what they were going to be capable of for this entire season. You know, when we did the dumb October,

what the hell is Philly going to be? We had no idea. We knew how excited they were about Edgecombe, but he showed up and within two weeks, it's like, oh, look at this backcourt. They have Maxie and Edgecombe, and it resuscitated the fan base. And if we get anything,

I think that's the floor for DeBanza. Now, maybe that, maybe, you know, I'm high on my supply right now, baby, but we like SAR. Oh, yeah. There's, you know, some of the metrics of them were pretty bad, but I like them. He best, he had testimony. His shop locking stuff, that's what you want. Three is shop locking. All right, we'll get back to Washington because number two is Utah.

Washington had a 52% chance to be in the top four in Utah, and Utah was at 45. We won a crucial coin flip. I don't know if you guys know, they had a coin flip with Sacramento. to decide who was four and who was five and who got which set of things. And that ended up getting them the second pick. Danny Ains, who I'm intimately familiar with as a guy that ran my team forever and just the way he thinks. He always goes for superstar ceiling.

He's always, if he feels like somebody has a chance to be great, he's going to take that guy and he's not going to care where it is in the draft. Like he was the one guy that would have taken Duran over Odin. And it's just that that's just how he rolls. Tate, is it possible? He'll look at the high school stuff from Peterson. He'll throw away the Kansas here and be like, this guy's Kobe Bryant, we got to take him?

Yeah, I think there's a high chance just because, I mean, I think a lot of times the college tape is just like additive. It's not the definitive case. And I think a lot of times for fans, it is the definitive case because that's what most people see. They don't see all the stuff beforehand. They've seen these kids since they were 16 years old. And obviously, Danny Aange was there the last time the number one pick was traded

and Markell Fultz, and there was a lot of people that, you know, were a little upset in the moment that that happened. And then it turned out to be one of the best trades ever for Boston to be able to get Tatum there at number three. So he's been there. He's done that. He's seen that. And I think with Peterson, it just sort of depends on how he interviews maybe with

Aange and if Aange likes the fit. But I just think it could be tantalizing with that front for it. It's going to be a boring interview. I'll tell you that much from what we see from Peterson. But maybe he likes that, you know, maybe he's just like this. I don't think he'll be talking about his favorite podcasts and some books he's read lately. It's not going to be like Concon. Nip him, you know what I mean?

Sure. Yeah. Yeah, that's another one. Look, he fits in with the team they have. Because now they have Jaron Jackson, they have Markening. You know, they have Kessler who's coming back. Yep. They got a great, great year from their young point guard.

What they're actually missing is a two guard and a score and like a closer. Which that's what he played at Kansas. He played the two. Right. So House, maybe they're just happy, happy, maybe this all, because the, There's a world where you just look at the board and you go, Washington, happy to take the bansa. Utah, super excited to take Darren Peterson. Memphis.

Couldn't be happier to add Cam Booser, like the most Memphis pick ever. And then Chicago, like, sure, we'll take Caleb Wilson. And that's just how it goes, right? And Boozer is kind of a grown up, you know what I mean? Just feels like a guy that's not going to have any sort of issues. You can make him a franchise type guy. Cedric Howard fits in well with him. Great Ryan Grizzlies.

Yeah, they're back. It works. I could see that. You agree with that house? I sure do. and especially Peterson's athleticism at the pro level and him with, and Ace Bailey, like, there is something there in Utah that you could point to and say,

you know, let's go ahead and see if we can win some games. Well, I think that team, because, you know, that poor coach that, you know, Will Hardy. Yeah, Will Hardy. We haven't seen him really get to cook. He only gets to cook every once in a while. He cooks through three quarters and then, and then he has to turn to the. the oven off for the last two years.

He was going to be cooking meth if he had to cook that team for three more years. It was breaking bad. Yeah, it really was. He was losing his mind probably. But, I mean, they got lucky last year with Ace. Yeah. That Ace tried to do that stare down and get them to go to Washington. They just stared him down like you're coming here.

His agent video, one of the classic draft videos. Yeah. Right. But they've never moved up in a lottery. I don't think in the history of the franchise until this draft. So Peterson, I would assume, but I'm telling you. you, man, if Danny watches enough Caleb Wilson and is just like, this guy's

the next Janus, we're taking him. They'll take him it too. He gives zero fucks. I know their process like, there's never leaks with Danny because he always takes him a while to figure out who he likes. Also, his son's running the team and obviously the owner is going to have a say

there's a bunch of people involved, but Danny's going to be the Yoda of this situation. I think from a fun NBA standpoint, DeBanza won and then Peter to go into Utah too is fun. Booze are at three. And then we don't think Memphis

will trade that pick or anything. And then, you know, Chicago, just hilarious. They're going to actually end up with a fun team despite themselves. And it will go nowhere near the luxury tax, but they'll play with Pace. They have Taylor Jenkins went there.

And with Wilson, the only question I have, Tate, there's no chance he drops to five, right? I just think that anything is possible with the Bulls, you know? I can totally see the Bulls like having keep Wogler.

Because Wogler's from Illinois. Exactly. I mean, that's like not nothing. In their backyard, they talk themselves into Wonger, great passing vision, all that sort of stuff. And then somehow Caleb Wilson falls to the Los Angeles clippers and gets to work under Kawhi Leonard, a guy who I think, you know, as far as the hand size, I think is a little bit similar.

And I think it would be a perfect kind of tutelage situation where he could learn under. And Tailu, obviously, doesn't really lean on the rookies too much, but it could be a good situation and a good spot for Caleb Wilson. But the Bulls, I mean, I know they just got a new, you know, kind of front office situation. So maybe, but at the end of the day, the ownership is the ownership. And they've done some things in the past that are head scratching.

And that could happen yet again there at number four. Or not done some things. Let me ask you guys this. We'll have a chance to talk to Verno as this all plays out. Oh, yeah. Memphis strikes me as a team that might be more inclined to take a swing on Caleb Wilson rather than the tried and true steady Camboozer. Because like, does Camboozer move the needle for Memphis?

I mean, they have an interesting little. nucleus. There is still yet whatever they resolve with job, whatever assets they get back, but they're still super in transition. They're not a team that's going to be looking to try and win, I don't think, 45 games next year, right? They don't have the roster for that. So if Caleb fits like that way where Cedric Coward is, like you're just building a really athletic kind of front court situation. There's a little of Memphis. Boozer dropping a four would be out of control. Well, that's why I'm asking Tate. Yeah, that's, that's, Like he just feels like, I don't know what his ceiling is, whether he's ever going to make a first team Ombia or anything like that.

And I probably like him a whiff less than others, but I still feel like, it's like he's getting guaranteed 22 and 10 guy, you know. Total stud. Yeah, he'll be super competitive. Yeah, he's always produced. I mean, I think that's the real thing with Camboozer where you almost talk yourself out of it, even though it's right there in front of you and you're like, he's going to be an all star. You know, he's going to be a guy that's in that conversation. So I really, I think Memphis just plays it safe there. But I like what you're saying.

How it's like high IQ transition type team, coward, Caleb Wilson. That could be a fun combo. I wonder if Wilson could just single hit. They rejuvenate John Morin. Well, you look at Chicago, if Wilson falls to Chicago at 4. And for the people listening who haven't really followed this draft, Boozer is like the steady 22 and 10 really knows how to play the game. He's just going to elevate wherever he is.

and Caleb Wilson is like the wild card who got hurt before March Madness all time incredible college athlete like just nuts like he feels like he came out of like the Faisalama Jammer era and there's like pieces of Sean Kemp Tate mentioned Tracy McGrady a little bit he doesn't have the three point shot yet

there feels like there could be a little chet maybe defensively if he could ever figure out that side of it as like a four I know that offensive stats weren't awesome for him but I'm looking at Chicago with Giddy and Kobe White and I had a soon moo oh no they don't have two of those three guys

I got excited for a second I'm like wait a second what is Bill now they don't think about that though Matas and Caleb yeah Boozellis and Caleb who's not getting just yanked his minutes yanked around by Billy Donovan many

all right we're going to take a break and we're going to come back and talk about the number five pick, which became one of the most fascinating things that has happened in the recent history of the lottery after this. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to by Fandul. It's been a wild playoff run. Not over yet. Fandle wants to bring you closer to the court to make all of that action come to life for you, the basketball fan. Fandle, the best place to bet the teams, players, plays during NBA postseason, build the same game parlay for a shot at a bigger payout or try live betting

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Open to U.S. Residence 21 plus. begins on October 1st, 2025, ends on June 30th, 2026. Multiple entry periods. See official rules of Micklobe ultra.com slash courtside for free entry, entry deadlines and prizes and details. Clippers make this crazy trade with Zubots to the Pacers. And it's top five protected or top four protected. And at that point, it looks like the Pacers are going to be the worst team in the league.

Cool. There's a second first round pick of there. Oh, one Joe House is back. Yeah, we're back. House. All right. Indy goes four and 21 in their last 25. The Wizards go one and 24. Indy lost 16 straight and somehow didn't end up with the first spot, falls back three spots, gets jumped, loses the pick for Zubots. And this fifth pick is no joke tape because we move with the fifth pick. There's a second tier of guys. Wogler, we mentioned, Aikoff, who might be a next Kyrie for

we know. Burris is in there. People love Fleming's. This is like a potential all-MBA someday guard. And Indy just doesn't have the pick now because they traded for Zubots. Just a staggering kicking the balls. An all-timer. Yeah, it's an all-timer. Can you put your conspiracy hat on here, Bill, and talk about this?

I can't. I don't think by the hat. I don't, there's no conspiracy, right? I mean, I'm just saying ABA-wise, right? The Pacers. Do you think there's a little bit of like they'll never let the Pacers get what they deserve because they're an ABA team?

That's where I'm going here. I'm just like, I never even thought of that. They've never won the lottery. Yeah. I like that conspiracy. Can we talk about the protection? That's the thing. The protection is the thing.

They basically made it seem like, hey, there's four players we love in this draft. But that's not how you can think because if you end up with the fifth pick and you have to give it away, nobody in the planet would trade Zubots for the fifth pick in this draft. I don't think they would trade them for the sixth, seventh, or eighth picks, honestly. But yeah, they took this chance with the percentages, Tate, and what happens? They get screwed, and now they have no pick. And for the Clippers, this is a miracle.

Yeah, it's amazing. Literally a miracle. Yeah, it's amazing. And obviously there's a lot of, you know, I think this is Pablo Torre's nightmare. Shout out to Pablo. He did not want to see this. the Clippers getting some sort of, you know, pat on the back. Yeah, they got something. It's basically their number one pick, right? I mean, they were able to, they knew what it was. Okay, House has got video again. That's good.

Yeah. So that happens. Also, you had, I think it was the president of basketball operations for the Pacers, kind of put out a tweet to all the fans. Yeah, Kevin Pritcher was just like, I'm so sorry that this happened. We thought that we had good juju on our side. Turns out we didn't. That's never good when you see that as a fan of the Pacers.

And, you know, we talked about like, that would be the perfect spot for like a Peterson or, Caleb Wilson or a booze or one of these guys to kind of slot into this Pacers team that can make a real run as a title contender. And now we're talking about the Clippers and then being able to get the fifth pick. And I mean, you could talk yourself into A-Cuff pretty

easily there at number five. And I think that would be a big swing and a nice pickup for Balmer and the Clippers. So it's funny. I think they would take Wagler because he's 6-6. Yeah. Like A-Cuff. Big Guard. House and I love A-Cuff, obviously.

But you have Darius Garland are. and I think they really like Garland. Like he had some real juice when he showed up. If you love Day Cuff, I think you'd have to trade Garland, which we'd get a little complicated. But don't you think Wagler could play with Garland? It's not ideal,

but he can play on or off the ball and he's six foot six has some size. Has the shooting. Yeah, I feel like he could do that, right? Yeah, 100%. I mean, I think it fits as far as, like, those two guys being able to play together. It's not redundant at any point.

and there's a team that's sitting there at number seven that I know that loves A-Cuff and probably would be willing to trade up potentially if you feel good about them wanting them so bad to get there at number five and maybe you get some more. The Kings really won't A-Cuff. I think that's pretty much a known entity at this point. So if they're willing to move up, that could be something there where you could get even more assets from a franchise that's a little bit desperate. But I really like Wogler.

The only time that we saw Wogler struggles when Yaxel Linderbord pretty much locked them up on defense. and he's five years older than him. So, I mean, I think there's going to be some growing pains, but he'll get there eventually. House, I had this in my notes with Sacramento. If you're the clippers, and you could just move back two spots and take Burry's seven. And also, you get to trade with Sacramento,

which has been one of the most foolproof ways to get better over the last 40 years and pick up a future pick from them. I would think about that because Burris, as you guys know, I love Burris, but if you're staying at five, I think you, I think Wogler has to be the pick. Both of those are, are tremendous options for, for the Clippers.

And it is proof positive that karma is on the Clippers side, even in the face, even in the face of all of the great circumvention, allegation, navigation, somehow or another, the karma landed in a certain way. I suspect that the lead, is going to land in the same place,

which is we are going to get on with Clippers basketball. Because the worst case scenario here is they decide horrible things happen and they just wipe the, we lost house again. They just wipe the the Quippers pick away, the number five pick. And that's that.

I had a dozy for you guys. Well, first of all, the clips turned Zubats, who I didn't even think was playing that well this year, and Hardin, who didn't want to be there anymore, into Garland and the fifth pick in this draft. So that's just amazing team.

And Mathor. Yeah, and Mathur and if they end up resigning them. Yeah, that's true. They have two pass now because they could potentially trade Kauai and trade Garland and just blow it up and try to rebuild around young guys. They could also swing the other way and make a Yanis play here. Because they're going to have some cap space. They have the fifth pick, which I think is attractive.

and there might be a way to send that and make that the focal point of some sort of trade and take Janice's thing on and try to keep Kawai and Garland and build around those three. Does that excite you at all? Yeah, it excites me. I just want Yonis to be saved. I want Yonnas to go somewhere.

You were talking with Nick Wright about the Hawks and just, you know, if they get that top four pick and trying to package away where Jalen ended up going to Atlanta and maybe, you know, Yonis ends up going to Boston. I thought that was a tasty idea

that I thought that, you know, I started putting that together in my brain. I'm like, that makes sense. It's kind of a win-win for everybody. This is obviously played out a little bit differently here. But if you're Milwaukee, I mean, I felt bad for, you know, shout out to Mallory Eden sitting there, you know, at the number 10 pick, it just looked like, you know, it was like warriors, bucks, like some of those teams on the back end that maybe they slot in and were able to, you know, maybe. Yeah, none of them hit this year. None of them hit. So, I mean, this is a way for them to be able to get something for the

future that gives them a little bit of optimism. And also saves Janus because I'm tired of seeing Janus be wasted, you know. After 2021, I thought we were going to have, like, like, wow, Janus could end up being the greatest power for it ever. And it is really derailed, you know, over the past three seasons. Obviously, injuries are involved. And then the coaching, shout out to Doc Rivers. I think he tried his best to make things happen. But great BS podcast.

Glad he's back on the pod. We need him here. It all worked out. He's back where he belongs on the pod every once in a while. And if Yonis goes to Clippers, that's great for the league, too. Yonis going to the Clippers and being in Los Angeles with Kauai, who's on a similar window of, I think, how many more years is he going to have with Garland

and they could patch around. They've been really good at building veterans around there. One of the outcomes of today was, it feels like it really improved the Celtics chances to get Yanis, if that's what they want to do. Because you saw Atlanta, who ended up in the eight spot, but that was a team that if they moved into the top four, I feel like they would have been in play for Janus potentially.

Golden State was another one. if Milwaukee had gotten up there with Atlanta and somehow both ended up in the top four, maybe they keep Janus at that point. But none of that stuff happened. So I would say the Celtics are probably probably the favorite at this point to get Janus unless Dallas got aggressive.

But I don't really know what the other team would be. Do you think of any? Charlotte, no, right? No, I just don't think Janus is going to be happy there. And then the heat is basically just like Milwaukee South. Yeah, you just trade. spots with them at that point. I don't think that really works out. And as far as like the narrative of Janus's career, you get Boston behind you. You kind of get the media, the chain, you know what I mean?

Like you can really, you can really change the whole conversation about who you are as a player. Because like the numbers tell a great story about Janus. You know what I mean? And like what he was able to do in 2021. You add in two more titles and you do it in Boston. And you're kind of like the 1A and Jason Tatum, you know, coming off injury is kind of like, you know, I wouldn't say 1B. but let's just say Janice ends up being the guy there. I just think it's a great story for a narrative purpose. And I do think Janice, I know he turned his nose up to being in the face of the league.

And I think that was a bad move in general. But I think that can really salvage everything as far as like the Janus story. Yeah, he's in that where the KG 2007 spot, only he has the title, but wants this next act and it's time to lead the team he's on. Still, maybe Golden State would be the other one. I mean, Golden State's at 11. Mm-hmm.

And they have the Butler expiring, but unless they just gave the rest of their drafts in a way to get him. I don't know how that excites Milwaukee. Milwaukee's going to want something back. Yeah. I mean, Jimmy Marquette guy goes back to Milwaukee. I know, but he's hurt. Yeah. There's no real sell there.

And if you get Jaylen back, you're getting a guy who's going to be second team on NBA, but you're putting him on a bad team. Maybe he'd like that. I don't even know. I don't know what he likes after. Yeah, who knows? He's all over the place. He had his favorite year of his career, but there were different reasons for it. Can you walk us through 5, 6, 7 with Wogler and Aikoff and Fleming's and Burris, and then it gets a little weird.

And then somehow Fylin has just gotten pushed back when I feel like maybe he could be the guy that jumps. Is there in that whole order? Is there anybody you think is in the wrong spot? Yeah, it's a cluster of guards. And Mikel Brown Jr. was sort of the guy that I thought was the guy at number five going into the season. He had his own version of a Darren Peterson situation where he had the back spasms and Louisville fans and kind of the people around the team were a little upset about him not being able to play. And there was some kind of back channeling that was happening there. But I still think McEl Brown Jr. has a lot of upside.

So I think he could be one of those guys that ends up being a steal if you get him at 8, 9, 10 range. Let's say the Hawks get him at 8. I think that's a really nice pickup for them. I like Wogler at 5. I think Darius Aikoff is the most explosive and like the guy that could really become a superstar. I mean, you even saw when they did the graphic on ESPN, the top four pigs, they cut out Caleb Wilson and put ACA. I couldn't believe that. Right.

Was that the Jay Billis list or that wasn't the ESPN list? That was just the Jay Billis only list. I think it was a Billis list and that's why they did that. But for me personally, like knowing Caleb a little bit, I do think that Caleb is almost better when he's disrespected. Like if Caleb were to go number one, I would actually be concerned. But Caleb going number four or number five, I feel like that's the best case scenario for his career. Because he kind of, he's like at the MJ thing where he like needs. grapes with people to kind of fire himself up.

So I think that A-Cuff going at five would be great. Burry's is a little bit older, but it just kind of feels like a surefire guard that you can trust, even off-ball at times if you need him to be there. And we know what he is. Burry is we know he's a two. Yeah, he's a two. And I think he's obviously showed a lot of Arizona last year and a really, really good scorer and player.

Phelon's an electric scorer. But honestly, of that group, I feel like Mikel Brown Jr. is the guy to me that gets me excited. You know what I mean? That could have be in a guard. Yeah, because in some lists he's in double figures.

Yeah. In some of the mock drafts. I'm kind of shocked that, I mean, I know a mint fell for, you know, a myriad of reasons. I know McKell Brown fell

for some of the stuff I mentioned with the injuries, but if you've watched McKell Brown when he's on, he is really, really good and he's got the size. Who would you compare him to? That's a good question.

I'm trying to think, I mean, he's kind of, he's bigger. That's the other part. I think he's physically bigger. I mean, I mean, Drew Holiday, maybe a little bit, potentially, you know, a Nimhard. But you think he's that kind of defensive player?

I think he could get there. I think he's offensively great. I just think that McKell Brown Jr. has a lot of upside. And I just think that the more I see him fall, the more I'm just like, if you're in the 8 to 12 range, because I think 12 is the line. Like when things go bad is at 12. I think that's when you're like, you know, in OKC, getting 12, I'm fascinated to see, like, do they just take a swing on a Bennett stirs?

So they take acquaintance? Like, who is that player that the Thunder go for? We're all like, oh, of course. They take Steinbach from Washington and he turns into Debtleff, shrimp 2.0. You know what I mean? Like, who is the play there at 12? But as far as that clutter of guards, I think they all have different kind of traits

that you could fall in love with. But I'm like a Wogler, A-Cuff first. And then from there, you know, you can kind of pick which one you fancy. But McKell Brown, I'm excited to see what he looks like. So A-Cuff, if he goes to Brooklyn at 6. Yeah. the kings will be sick well they don't have their 27 uh phoenix phoenix or houston one of them can switch houston can switch with them so they kind of have to be good next year right acuff is an

investment in somebody that you're hoping you know can be pretty special who knows if he's it's pretty rare for a point guard to come into the league and be awesome right away and i you know there's there's some feeling and some feedback about the Nets that they might want to say, fuck it. Let's get, we're tired of the lottery just didn't work out for us two years in a row, right? We tried to try to game this system twice. Each time we got screwed, let's just trade the pick for a star. I'm going to read you some names.

Sadly, I think House might be dead. I'm not sure. Did House text us? Oh, they're getting a fix. Yeah, they're getting a fix. A part of my mind is concerned about House right now. I think he's on too much of a high. I think maybe the D.A.

The bloody berries hit. Maybe he put something in his bloody marries and the drug police came. Palo Bancaro for the six pick. That feels like a no for Orlando. I'm just giving you some guys. Okay. I think it's a no. But I mean, Palo would say yes.

Right. Well, but I guess for Orlando, it's like we're way over the tax. We get to reboot a little bit. That's a no. I'm just listing names. Don't get mad of me, people watching. Jalen Williams on OKC,

which would allow OKC to get out of all this money stuff that they have coming. They could grab somebody awesome at six. I don't think they would trade Jailen Williams for six. If we're moving in the top three, that becomes a different story. But six now, crossing him off, Mobley gets a little more interesting. Especially if Cleveland,

gets bounced in five and we've seen mobile kind of level off and just be an 18 nine guy and Cleveland's way over the tax and could they just reset this you let hard and go maybe you trade Mitchell and this is just a complete reset. Jamal Murray at 15 was the most fun one where you just put A-Cuff on Denver and you put Jamal Murray on Brooklyn you have a vet. Janice has to be mentioned. I don't know why he would go to Brooklyn if nobody was there. and then the only other one that's like Donovan Mitchell, Jalen Brown, I don't see how that makes sense for Brooklyn.

Yeah, I, I, the, the, the Palo one is the one that got my attention the most out of those. Oh, interesting. Yeah, just because, I mean, the Palo thing just is fascinating. I know they've got to figure out the coach. I mean, you got the Wagner situation.

I know Orlando would be sick to hear that, but I, I'm just fascinated by him because he can turn it on. And when he does turn it on, you're like, oh, yeah, there he is. There's the franchise, you know, top 10 potential player. And then there's times where he's a little bit

off. And I don't know. He's a fascinating situation. I also feel like all the Yannis examples outside of Boston or the Clippers, as we've mentioned, it just feels like, you know, Will Smith and Fresh Prince when he's in the room by himself. You know, it's like how many, how many of those situations can we send Yonis into? I would feel bad for him if that were to happen again. And how many years does they have left? Yeah. Right. Like if you're trading for him, what are you actually getting back? Sacramento at 7, I think they just take whatever point cards left. They don't have a point card. I think they're going to try to trade up.

I think they're going to try to get the five and get eight of. I really do. Wow. I mean, that would be a godsend for the quippers. You end up with this weird trade you made. Somehow you get the fifth pick. You move backwards to get seven for Burris, who you probably would have wanted anyway.

And then you get more assets and you trade it with Sacramento. There's no way that doesn't work. Atlanta is another one that I think could trade up if they got excited about a point guard. There are also a team. is from Atlanta and that that has to be mentioned. Yeah. If this was straight up, Jaylen,

Dyson Daniels, and a contract and the eighth pick, like whatever that is. How much do you think that's possible to happen at this point with Jalen Brown? I mean, because, you know, you guys are talking about it. I mean, he is so smart and cerebral.

And I do feel like some of this stuff is targeted and pointed on purpose, you know? Right. Is he kind of sent the message himself that he's like, I would be interested in something like that? Because otherwise, well, you've been following sports long enough.

now. He's doing the thing where there's just mixed signals anywhere and it's hard to tell whether he just wants everybody to be talking about him or whether he actually wants to leave or whether he actually wants to stay. And there's there's kind of, there's no way you're just trying to grab it all over the map, trying to see what's happening and you have no idea. Yeah. And I honestly don't know. Like somebody asked me for percentages of if I thought Jaylen was going to be in the Celtics next year and I was like, I don't know, 50-50. That's what it feels like. It feels like. feels like a coin flip. He also won a finals. It'd be one thing if he, you know, when they won the championship, he did not win conference finals MVP and finals MVP. I mean, he got those.

I thought that would be the end of the whole thing. I'm, I'm very confused by it. Also, I'm so sad that we didn't get, you know, the Nick Celtic series after watching what the Sixers showed out. I know. I mean, my God. Yeah. Jesus Christ. We didn't even talked about that. No. Well, quickly in the latter, Atlanta's eight. Dallas is nine. And they have Kyrie come me back. And Burris would be the dream Dallas guy here, right? Yep. Pair him next to him. Not positive he's going to get all the way to nine, but that's like, oh my God, what a home run, putting him next to a flag. There's a really fun version of how this lot of it. The only problem is I can't figure out what Atlanta would take. I assume at eight they would take a point card.

Milwaukee's just taking whoever the highest ceiling guy has left because they're going to be a rebuild at 10. And then can you walk me through Yaxil at Golden State at number 11? Because that just seems like everyone's just going to pencil him in there. Can he go higher than that? He isn't going to be 24. Yeah, I know Kyle Man had him, I think eight or seven or eight on his big board. And Yaxel is one of those guys where he is older, which makes sense for Golden State, right? It's a team that it's obviously a very old team.

And I know Draymond just had that moment with Barcliffe talking about in Barclays, like, old teams don't win anymore. So, you know, it's a young man's game. But I think Yaxel, my only issue with him going to Golden State is, yes, he is older. But, like, the maturity is not older. like his maturation does not match the age. And I do feel like, you know, you're bringing another Michigan guy with Draymond, Michigan State guy. Kerr just resigned the extension and sort of running it back.

Like you don't want to recreate a whole situation and a whole problem again where Steve Kerr's like, am I, like, where am I in the twilight zone? Like, why is this happening again? Yeah. But it does like make sense on paper. Defender, kind of nice insurance on the wing, you know, as Jimmy is rehabbing and getting back and he could be a nice piece for them that could be, you know, I mean, it doesn't have to be a score by any means.

but I think defensively he's a nice cog in the machine. But I still would be a little concerned about the maturation. That would be the thing where the age seems like it matches, but I'm not sure that the way that he actually. Well, the one that I think, so Mara the center is anywhere from like 8 to 15. That could be an OKC move too. Well, that's what, so I had him written down tentatively for OKC at 12. But I also think there's a world where they try to trade up in the top three,

which I talked about Thursday. And some people are saying, because I had AJ Mitchell and 12 for the three. And some of the feedback I was getting was AJ Mitchell's contract is so good. Why would they trade him? Why wouldn't they look at Jalen Williams instead? And because he's going to be at like 45, 48, 50, and they've proven that they can be running at all cylinders, whether he's there or not. And I was wondering, like, could they trade Jalen Williams to Memphis for KCP and the three? That feels like a presty kind of move, right?

Yeah. If you're Memphis, they're like, holy shit, we have Jalen Williams and Cower now. And if you're OKC, you're basically resetting the clock and you're getting some sort of, you're getting boozer, Caleb Wilson, you're getting one of those guys, maybe even Peterson. Yeah, they know they have to break it up at some point. And also it looks like it works without J-dub, which is crazy. And AJ has been great so far. And it's also people saying he looked like a top 50 player.

So yeah, I mean, I think Presti will be working the line. So I think that's a good call. I mean, but I think at 12 to me is where the line is to see because like Dailen Swains in that range, a die Mar is in that range. We also didn't mention Kingston Fleming's. Well, I do, I forgot to kind of mention in the cluster of guards. I do think Kingston Fleming's is pretty fascinating too. Yeah, I don't know what to make of him.

And from what the rankings are, it seems like a lot of people. Because we've seen a little like fears. I know he's better than Fier's last year, but same kind of thing, like just a young athletic, fast guard, what is he? We had,

it felt like a little more of a sampler size with Wogler and A-Cuff. But I know Fleming's, at one point, Fleming's was the number five and everything. This episode is brought to you by Square. If you're in the restaurant game, you know that efficiency is everything.

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Learn more about their customizable plans at squareup.com. Yeah. Last thing I want to mention on the lottery, Miami's at 13. And if you factor in two teams usually do something weird, right? odds are they're going to get like Phylon or somebody good. And it just, it always happens. They got Cron Butler that year. They got Tyler Hero that year.

They got BAM that year. They're always like kind of lingering from in this early teens range. A couple people screw up and all of a sudden somebody awesome. And as you know, I don't like Miami. Salin worries. What about like native mint there? It seems like he's dropping. He is dropping, but I just don't think there is the tools that are there.

I'm not completely out on Native Mint. I know that every time I see a new board, it's like Native Ben's down to like 18, 20 range. But there were talks last year going into the season where Native Mint was going to be in the top four. He was going to be, you know, instead of Caleb Wilson, it was Native Mint, you know? So I still think there's maybe a team that talks themselves

into taking him in that 14, you know, 13 to 15 range. All right. So I'm putting you on the spot. The best part from this draft will be 10 years from now. People are throwing this clip back in your face. I don't want to say it because I don't want it to get thrown back in his face, but I'm going to say it because why not, Caleb Wilson. That's not just a North Carolina thing.

No. I mean, I honestly, I could take the blinders off and I could just say to myself, my God, this guy is incredible. So, I mean, AJ, Caleb, O'Berno. Yeah. Tate just said he thought Caleb Wilson was going to be the best guy from this lottery and tenure. Chris Vernon is here, by the way, host of the mismatch. Future Memphis Grizzly, Chris Vernon.

Winner of the third pick in the NBA draft, and I can't wait to hear who you want them to take. Oh, listen, this Boozer Wilson debate is going to feed families. My family for the next month and a half. This is going to be great because I think the expectation, is it right? The band still will go one, Peterson will go two, because they don't need a four in Utah.

And so the grizzlies there sitting at three, that's going to be the debate. Everybody is going to try to decide whether or not they prefer Camboozer or they prefer Caleb Wilson. The sure thing or like what Tate says, the guy. The ceiling guy. Yeah, right, the ceiling guy. Well, so who, what's dive into the psyche of Memphis and the Great Grind Grizzlies? That was the most beloved Memphis team of all time. Who is more Memphis of those two guys?

I mean, I will say that Wilson is, Wilson is, there's two ways to go look at it, right? Because I don't think people would necessarily think Marcus Saul, but Marcus Saul is like totally embodied Memphis. Now, he did go to high school there. He had an awareness of the city prior to. But he is a serious, doesn't take any crap, get the job done, right? Like he doesn't go about it in some kind of flashy way. So I think that could be viewed as blue collar. Certainly Wilson has got the whole like,

I have this crazy motor, that kind of. So I think honestly, I think both of them can fit in terms of like the city. Wilson's the kind of guy that like, well, it'll be every kid's favorite player. He'll be the one smiling. Like he's got, He's got like a personality, whereas a boozer is obviously much more businesslike.

But what fans respect is guys that, you know, especially in a blue-collar town like Memphis, they just respect guys that give it honest effort every single night. And I think that both of them. You're getting both of that. Yeah, both of them do that, right? They'd go about it in different ways. Certainly Wilson's Flash year. But you could be playing against anybody.

And Boozer is still like, Boozer doesn't have. ass it against anybody. And so it's just the idea that you like bring your lunch pill to work and you give an honest effort every night. All right, Tate, give us your last thoughts because Double House is going to come back into the Zoom. It feels like we've fixed the special effects. House doubled during the, during the podcast. All of a sudden, he was in two feeds. Yeah, he was gone. It was a disaster. So give us your Memphis take before we go. Who do you want them to take, take. I think they should take Caleb Wilson because I think Cedric Coward and Caleb Wilson is a fun

combination. Also like John Morant, the high flying John Moranth is. That's a league past team. Yeah. Like you get a perfect, you get dunk highlights galore. You got two high IQ guys with Cedardardt. I think that's great. It would be fun. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.

Didn't Boozer play in Chicago, the dad? Yeah. Yes. I have a vague memory of him ending up there and it wasn't great. Yeah. Well, and let's let's pause on the whole John Moran flying around dunking. I'm saying back in the day.

We can restart the clock on a different guy. Oh, yeah. Like, let's have some fun. I got to tell you, Bill, an absolute stunned disbelief that Tate prefers the Carolina guy to the Duke guy. This is crazy. I know.

I have no disrespect towards. I like both guys. I like both guys. I think it's a win-win, Verno. Tate will call it like it is, but if it's a UNC guy that he loves, he's going to ride for that UNC guy. If he played in Georgia,

I would say the same thing. I'll say that. Tate, we'll see you on ring or tailgate this week. We're letting you go. Thanks for hanging on, especially with the traumatic house disappearance. I'm glad we were able to go through that together. I'm worried about him.

I hope he gets in. Thanks, guys. Good to see you, Verno. Bye, Tay. Good to see you, Nate. Verno. How drunk is he? How drunk is house?

House was fairly coherent. What? Yeah, he's popping back on right. There is no chance if Memphis would have popped up one. I'm on this thing. Did you feel like you just wanted to get in the four? Or did, were you like? Yes.

Yes. Yeah, because that's how, I think with this draft, you just want to be in the four. It was just, you know, whenever you go through miserable, punted seasons, you just want the end to justify the means. And so being in the top four meant that it was worth it. And, you know, like, I'll give you for instance, the very end of the season, and this is the worst thing to go through is when you're playing, when you're playing games where, where it's like, who wants to lose more.

But you guys even talked about it, I recall. There was a game that was coming up with Memphis versus Dallas. And people were like, this thing should be on league pass. Right. And Memphis was better at the end of the season at losing on purpose. Well, now you look up at the end. Dallas is picking nine. And Memphis is picking three.

They had the same record. They had the exact same record at that game. Yeah. And now, I mean, that is how, that's how sometimes this can fall. And so if you're a Dallas fan, I think you're looking at and go, what, what was the point of that?

We're picking nine, right? We had that the, we had that the Durant year. Yeah. With the worst team, terrible. And then we fell to five. We fell to the Jeff,

Jeff Green pick. It was, it was devastating. Oh, Bill. I hosted a bar filled with Memphis Grizzlies fans on ESPN. Well, that's right.

You had the Mike Conley. Yeah. On ESPN. We had, one huge blow-up doll of Greg Oden in a Memphis uniform and one huge blow-up doll of Durant. And, oh, my God, the amount of alcohol that was consumed that night after it popped up four.

And the radio broadcaster for the Grizzlies, like, got on the stage, and he's like, Chris Bosch was drafted number four. And everybody was like, boo! Fuck you! House, congratulations. Burlough! Congratulations, baby. we fell to five that year

and it was like, are they going to take Jeff Green or Yishin-Lahn? And I was like, shoot me. Where's the bar? The chairman. The chairman. Bruno, who are you going to take? You're going to take a three. Oh, I just, all right before you came on, what Tate was on, I was saying,

like, I got six weeks of Camboozer Caleb Wilson debate. This is going to be great. This is going to be great because they're, look, I love both of them. I don't think there, there's not like a wrong choice. And that's why everybody is euphoric because if you were able to get in the top four,

you're not making the wrong choice. That's how it feels at least today. I thought that way as the lottery happened this afternoon. I was like, as long as we get in top four, I'm cool. I'll take any of them. I asked tape before you guys came on if OKC offered Jalen Williams to Memphis for the third pick and took back the Caldwell Pope expiring. would you consider it?

I don't think they would. Because I think what's happening now? Wow. He was, what was he? Second or 13th year? Yeah, he was. It's like 23? Here's what I tell you,

but he's already signed his contract, Bill. And one of the things we are learning is that I think this is all evolving where you're going to have to have major contributors on rookie contracts and probably multiple major contributors on rookie contracts.

Well, that was like this. Celtics with Joe Missoula in the playoffs when guys like Hugo and, oh, no, he didn't play them. But technically, I agree with you. No, I think you're right. That is what's going to happen because what ends up happening is because you can have second-tier stars, right? So Desmond Bain signs of Max and Franz Wagner gets his under $80 million. And so then you've got when, because that's the only way you're going to keep these guys is by paying them. but there's only so many that actually probably move the needle enough.

And then if you accumulate a couple of them, now that's got to be good enough, right? And you're up against it. And so I do think that the value of the value now more than ever is getting these guys that can contribute immediately because now you get them for four years and you've got a good enough, you're able to build out. You think about even what I just went through with the Grizzlies. Yeah. The best team was when those guys were on the rookie deals.

That's when you were able to have Tyos Jones and De Anthony Melton and Kyle Anderson and Brandon Clark and like your bench was really good too. But I think kind of the only way you can have like you're either going to overpay a bunch of starters, right? And or you're going to have these guys on rookie deals. I think the best teams are going to be young. I do. Well, that's why the Celtics are in such an interesting spot with Jaylen here.

If they can try to trade, you know, that would be one of the logic, especially with the way that Tate and I talked about how the draft broke, where you have like Brooklyn at six, who's like, well, we don't want to suck again. Can we get a star for this pick or Atlanta at eight? And could the Celtics end up if that's what, if Jalen does want to leave or they decide maybe it's time, is that the kind of trade that if Janus isn't sitting there trying to get a young guy back on a cheaper thing and then try to

spend the money elsewhere is a way. You agree with that house or would you rather keep Jalen and make a run at it? I think you're not that far away if you have both Tatum and Brown and we kind of have a good track record of that based on this that they've had. Jalen wants

his own team. That's where the problem would come in. At some point somebody needs to sit down with him and get to the bottom of this so that we're not dealing with this nonsense, you know, 15, you old drama silliness, the Twitch and whatever. Can that person not be Tracea McGready? Oh, that's, that was...

Did you see that last day? I was so happy. What fuck was that? I didn't actually talk to Jaylen. I just saw, I noticed the body language, and I was also down 3-1 and blew it, and I know how frustrated that. What are you saying? Also, Jalen just said this was the best year of this career.

So his body language was bad? That was a mess, man. They should have rehearsed that one better. We know you talk to Jalen Brown. It's fine. Just fucking admit it. I want to say, though, to Verno's point, that here in Washington, the defense that the decision makers

offer up for why they traded Deniavda was because of wanting a core group of guys all between ages 19 and 22 that are basically on the same contract trajectory and let them all come together at the same time. That's why this number one pick is especially valuable for the Washington situation, because now you have four or five guys

that are all in that same class, that same category. And we'll say if any of them actually, you know, if it plays out, but promising SAR, promising Kishon George, promising Will Riley, promising this number one overall pick

and you put a veteran or two into it, and it's interesting. Well, and you really just need two of them to hit, right? Because, look, Oklahoma City was able to move off of Giddy. Giddy was a hit, right? Like, that's a hit pick. And then by the time it was time to pay him, they're able to swing that into Caruso

because they had other ones that were going to hit. Right. Well, OK, C, we got to talk about them really quick. There's 7 and 0 in the playoffs. We haven't talked basketball at all. We've been talking about the lottery for 4 hours. There's 7 o in the playoffs. I talked about Thursday night

this AJ Mitchell situation where he's going to make $3 million a year next year and this is a guy who feels like he could almost run his own team at this point. They have the big Jalen Williams contract and Big SGA and Chet and they're going to have to do some gymnastics

pretty soon. They have this 12th pick which to Verna's point, this is what you want to do. You want to keep replenishing with these guys in the first four years. And it just feels like they're going to be in this situation over and over again the rest of the decade. It's really starting to feel like they could be in the finals

or the Western finals 60 plus wins here for, I don't know, the next seven, eight years. And this 12 pick is going to be a good player. And you didn't even mention, right? They got the Sorber kid. He doesn't touch the floor. And Topic, he doesn't touch the, I mean, they got two. And Wiggins doesn't play anymore.

That guy would have played minutes for real teams this year. Oh, for sure. He's just on the side. Yeah. Well, no, we don't. didn't play subs house. So before the lottery, I was on a FaceTime with my dad

for 15 to 20 solid minutes. He's still really upset about the Sixers series. And the Knicks series made it worse. Watching the Knicks, which that game happened tonight, it was a sweep, it was embarrassing. It was really the most humiliating weekend

you could possibly have in Philly where you not only get waxed by the Knicks, but you have 70 to 75%. Like for real, of Knicks fans in there just completely taking over the building and then by the end of it you go from a week ago

where you had the highs of this game seven oh my God Paul George is in a disaster Hey Embed's back Maxi Edgecombe and it's so exciting to a week later being like is Darrell gonna get fired what's gonna happen I was just gonna play out I just my dad was just like

why didn't we do that against Philly why didn't we put Embed in pick and pop stuff Why didn't we just hound Maxie? Like, what the fuck were we doing? Yeah, especially with the way that obviously they've got a ball dominant guard. And Brunson is a drop coverage demolisher, right? It was like, Embed, I don't care what a statue. He was unplayable against them because there's no good choice to make.

You cannot hide him. And to Mike Brown's credit, he was not going to let him be hidden. He was going to be put in every single action until you either pulled him off the court or you just lived with us bombing you out. And they just lived with getting bombed out. Yeah. Well, they did that with the Celtics too and we didn't make any of the threes. But I also didn't think we attacked a bead like that house. Well, I want to be as respectful as possible.

But like this version of Celtics fandom, you guys are fucking delusional. You weren't good enough. You didn't have the talent. Ogeo Ninobe, whose name I'll never get right, and Carl Anthony Towns are better than what the Celtics put out in terms of a front court. Like, you had no answer for MBE or any of the size. They had no answer for Paul George playing defense.

The Knicks are better. The Knicks are better than the Celtics. And the Knicks ran the Sixes right off the court. I told my dad we might have been saved by actually getting our ass kicked in a real way by the Knicks, especially if Tatum was 100%. Well, because then it convinces you that like, hey, that we got this many wins

because we gave an honest effort every night. We were try hard, right? Sure. And try hard when the playoffs come around, get exposed because you can't just win with depth and playing hard. You had a team like that. What was your Memphis team like that recently?

Like four or five years ago, you had a team like that. Oh, sure. Yeah, three years ago. It's why people didn't believe in them, right? It's like because when it comes when it comes playoff time, like there might be the one Luke Canard game or there might be the Tice Jones game. But then as you as you go up levels in the playoffs, they are just going to hone in on that.

And then you're going to find out like, okay, I've actually got really five that can play in this. I don't really have 10 that can play in this. I mean, hell, even even in the Minnesota series during one of the Grizzlies best, seasons. They made, they go, the Grizzlies bench Stephen Adams and played Xavier Tillman at center because Towns just played him off the floor completely. They were like, and that was in the first round of the playoffs. It's like, once you can, if you give an honest effort and you play hard every single night, you can win a lot of regular season games. And I'll give Missoula and the Celtics credit for doing that. But I think House is right. When it came down to talent,

in the end, it's still, you know, Namias Kada and it's still Samhouser and it's still, yeah. Right. And it's not your fault. It's not the Celtics fault that Embed came back and was capable of being effective. You couldn't really game plan for Embed being part of the playoff series. Also, who could have predicted Derek White being awful? Like, not like, not like okay.

He was awful. One of the things we were talking about was Paul George comes back from the suspension. By the way, Skip Bayless, who I can't say I'm a false. fan of. The playoff P, P-E-E was legitimately funny. I'm curious we didn't come up with that joke. All the years we've been together. We never...

How do we not come up with playoff P-E? It was so good. But he comes back and he's got his legs. And Bid comes back from... God only knows where he was and he has his legs for a week. And then by the time they got to these last two Nix games, both of them

looked like the guys that we picked at our worst contract strapped. So they They got this little thing. I still feel like the Celtics were a little better than a try-hard team when Tatum came back. I just think the whole thing of bringing him back mid-season combined with them bailing on the bench was pretty weird. You also started three guys that never play in game seven. Yeah, that was that was desperate. That was desperate.

The Ron Harper start will live in infamation. Nobody still knows what happened with that. Can we talk about the Knicks quick? they've won three seven straight games some of it can be attributed to using towns and running more stuff through him and some of the passing which has been really impressive and becoming less Brunson centric they had a shitload of threes today they they were making they were nine for ten at one point from three in the first quarter but uh but what they've done for towns which i always kind of wondered why they didn't do it maybe i didn't i didn't know if he had it

them. But what they did, it just feels like they're more interesting now, House. It's incredible. And I give Mike Brown a ton of credit. This streak of assists that he's gotten at least six assists in however many straight games. And tonight, you know, I think he had seven assists in the first quarter. And they're real assists. They're not like, I passed you a shot and you dribbled and took a three. They're like backdoor layups and hitting guys cutting and stuff. The thing to me with this next team is they have shown us now, twice, both in two different close-out situations that they have another level. And that's what's

scary for this run that they're on, because they did the exact same thing to Atlanta. Like, how can they make all of these buckets and get rolling so quickly in a first quarter and basically put the game out of reach in a first quarter? They did it twice. That validates what they did to Atlanta. And the Sixers, you know, I think comparing them to Atlanta, that was a more formidable foe a more formidable situation, even though they had them down 3-0. But for sure, they are, they flew today. They were at a different kind of place altogether in terms of the speed and the force that they

played that first quarter and the game was over. Yeah, that's twice, that's twice, that they've done it. A team with theoretically their backs against the wall should have a grand slam effort and they just humiliated their throats. I mean, you look at the seven-game winning streak. They went by 16. They went by 29. They won that last game, Ben Atlanta, by 51. And then you go in this series, and they were, they had a 39 point win, a 14-point win in game three. That was actually not even as close. And then the blowout in this game, I like when I'm seeing blowouts in the playoffs with the team. Like that, that's a different

level. That tells you, like, not only, that's, I always, the teams that fall behind always makes be nervous. And what's weird is the Knicks were one of those teams that they always felt like they were down 8-10 with, you know, eight minutes left. Now they're blowing everybody out. They look really good. I mean, this is probably the best time to be a Knicks fan, I would say, since 1994, where you feel like, holy shit, we have a real chance now to win. Even last year, you know, they obviously were the favorites in the Indiana series. They just beat in the Celtics, but they weren't supposed to beat the Celtics. That was a weird series.

Like, they're kicking asses now. And I don't know. Like, I actually, do you think they'd go toe to toe with one of these West teams, Burnow, from what you've seen? Yeah, I do. I also think that like Detroit was mega physical against them and really body them this year. So like, if they can get through that, if they can get through, because I think it will eventually be New York and Detroit.

And go look at those games this year. Detroit pumped them out. And so we'll see. do think they would need like full on OGM and OB to be able to to deal with that, right? Because again, you're going up a level. But if they get past that, because they'll be battered and bruised by the time they get through there, but for sure. I mean, it's very plausible that we could see, you know, we saw them in the in-season tournament

for what it's worth, right, at the very end. Oh, that's so nice of you to bring that up. But you remember. But you remember. But they care. Yeah. No, I like it. But everybody cared.

You want some Adam Silver Brownie points. No, they did care. Well, look, Adam Silver's on my good list. We popped up three, house popped up one. That's true. I'm cool today. Well, you know what happened. Nick Wright and I talked about it on Tuesday,

all the mean stuff LeBron said about the city, and they had to atone. Oh, that was just vicious. Vicious comments. It wasn't just him. We got dog piled all year. All year. Dremod.

Anthony Edwards. Can we build a hotel of Memphis? Can we build a. a four-floor Mandarin Oriental or a montage? I mean, do that, Verno?

I don't know. You're the richest guy I know. Help us out. He's all invested in it. It's 41 nights a year plus playoffs. Right. I think we at least know it's going to be booked some nights.

I agree. I've never heard a hotel. What is the hotel that gets this much hatred? We had influencers going down there and doing videos. Like, this is amazing. The Hyatt. I think.

And I mean, like, and the West. I suppose the one across the street. I mean, I guess it's not up to their stout. Hasn MBA people, NBA people and Joe House, love a good hotel. I stayed at that Hyatt.

And actually, I was there at the same time because I visited Verno, did the show with Verno. And it was during the season and both the Dallas Mavericks were in for a couple of bites. And then Houston was in. I was in an elevator with Sangoon. And it's a very nice Hyatt.

But it is not like what they encounter in other cities. And it's a super easy walk straight down the street to the facility. But they want big ass suites. Yeah, they want good room service. They do want all that. And hose. We're, that's what the big conspiracy is we ain't got enough. You can import some.

I mean, we don't have enough flight. I guess we don't want to fly to either. We're taping this before game four of Timberwell of Spurs. What Wembe did on Friday night was terrifying. Who knows what's going to happen in game four? But that was, I thought, such a fascinating game. Just for the future of the league that somebody aged 22 could do that, I got this email that I thought was kind of broke my brain about the Wembe's situation

we're in. Basically, so it's this guy Bradley from LA Laker fan. And he said, if you look at all the guys who became Hall of Famers who won titles who were under the age of like 24, which is basically Magic Johnson, Kobe, Kareem, Duncan, Wade, Kauai, and Bill Russell. That's the list. All of them had an older, awesome teammate that helped them win. So Magic had Kareem, Kobe, had Shaq. Kareem had a Oscar Robertson, Duncan Ed Robinson, Wade at Shaq, Kauai had Duncan and Parker and Genobey and Russell had Cousie and Charmin. So the question is, does this mean the Spurs are going to lose or does this mean Wembe is great enough to break history and become the first guy? I was like, I actually don't need a Hall of Fame older team, man. I'm going to do this myself.

How good is he to you house? Like, what's the ceiling for you as we head into the next five weeks here. I hate to confess this. I'm still stuck on my old guy mindset. I mean, the evidence keeps piling up that he is a one-of-one capable of sort of vanquishing the entire, you know, 20, 30 year longer than that history that we've built up, that there needs to be their steps to this. So they need to go in and take a loss. I thought that game one, against Minnesota was like, welcome to the playoffs. That's our, you know, they ran through Portland without too much trouble. The first game where they had a team come out with playoff intensity, the playoff

physicality, you know, they were constantly into Wemby's chest at his legs the entire game was that game won. And yet the ability for San Antonio and Wembe, they just very coolly recalibrate, reset. and that game three, it really challenges the old artifice. Yeah, and maybe this is a new era, Verna. Yeah, you know, there's part of me that thinks it might be, and it goes back to what I was saying about teams being young.

I remember years ago on the mismatch, I did this whole bit where I think the Celtics had lost at some point, and maybe they were like when the Js were like around 25, and I was like, look, you go back and look through the history of the NBA, And everybody's like 27 before they do it for the first time. And that is Michael Jordan. And that is LeBron James. And that is Steph Curry.

And that is Shaq. And name the great players. They're generally 27 or older. And so we have this expectation. But the history of the NBA tells us that. And then Janus did it at 26. And then Gildes Alexander did it last year. I think at 26.

And so that number may just keep getting lower. It might. Like, you know what I mean? Because I've already had to lower it from 27. It's like, yeah, we've got to kind of got to wait until they're 27. You know, they've become men. They've probably settled down. You know, they figured out, you know, they figured out the game.

They've got a lot of reps and whatever. But it's interesting, if there is anybody that would be different, it certainly stands to reason that it would be him because he is, I think we throw around that he is unlike anything we've ever seen. But he's truly unlike anything in the history of the world. So why not him? I was texting, don't ask, but I was texting about Caitlin Clark with a couple of people yesterday about. Why don't ask?

Well, it was. Because it was David Letterman, Howes. No, it was. David Letterman and John Stewart. Amazing. Of course it was. No, but she had a, like, not a great first game, right? And I was, I was thinking in my head about comparing her to Wembe, where same kind of spotlight.

same kind of being tested by everyone in the league over and over again. And in Caitlin's case, it doesn't seem like she's handled it 100% well. Like last year it felt like the entire league was coming at her, right? And really trying to test her and be physical with her. And really seemed like almost like the people on the other teams like genuinely disliked her. And she was in all these non-sports conversations and, you know, kept being, getting brought in as a political tool. And it didn't seem like she was enjoying.

that part. It felt like to me, like I know nothing, but it felt like a little bit of her joy was gone. And some people, it's a lot when it's all getting thrown at you, right? And I look at Wembe, and he's the opposite. Wemby's like, fucking bring it on. I've been training for this my whole life. You're going to be physical with me. I'm going to make you pay. And I think that's been the most impressive thing to me that at age 22, he's wired the way he's wired, where he's got so much fuck you in him already. And I think it's really hard to mess of them. Nobody resents. him, though. That league resented Caitlin Clark.

They resented the fact that that's all anybody wanted to talk about, but they're also, right? Like, they've kind of been there. They've done that. They they're great players in their own right. You know, the Asia Wilson's of the world had been winning MVP's and championships, and yet it's like

all anybody wanted to talk about was Caitlin Clark. And so it had this resent. It was built. You could chip away at it. Because the difference with Wembe, right, is if you play against him or you even go see him in person. And I know we've all had the same experience. You're just like, holy shit.

This is like even three, you saw him in person, right? So it's like three times crazier than I was expecting. I haven't seen him in person yet. But I just would say it's a luxury for Wembe. He's arrived in a very well-established league with a well-established agreement and pay, you know, pay structures. I mean, they brought him along how they could. The situation with the WNB.

was radically different. And Caitlin Clark arrived with a giant fan base. She dragged people over to that product because they were so enamored of her college performance. She was a one of one in college in terms of that shooting. And she reminded us of Steph Curry, like, wow, we haven't seen anybody shoot like this before. And now I'm a fan of step. And she came over and all of a sudden there's eyeballs, lots of eyeballs on the WNBA for the first time. And they're in the middle of about a collective.

bargaining agreement that's about to expire and the entire pay scale needs to be reset and the TV deals need to be all reset. And she did bear the brunt of a lot of that because she was the one that generated the interest that propelled the whole thing upwards. The prices they're getting for expansion teams. She singularly, to my way of thinking, is responsible for the entirety of that. And she missed most of the last season by being hurt. And so all she had to. And the team did well without her, which is right. Yeah. Yeah. There's there's ways to pick at it. It's interesting, though. Yeah, so we'll see with Wembe today. She's way more famous

too. Way more famous. Do you think your wives know who Victor Wembe D'Ammy is? I think this, the last couple months, I think it's been happening. Do you think your wife knows who Victor Wembe Yombe Yombe is? She definitely does. She does? The TV is on basketball on my house, you know, it's not fair

for me. That's fair. I have a 15-year-old, too. I just don't think he's not famous like she is. She was there was there any PCU that thought okay c was going to lose a game to the Lakers? No not after not after watching that stupid Houston series. I mean that was so abominable that you watched that and it was like yeah

I mean that's it felt like two non-playoff teams that we were forced to watch playing each other in the playoffs. I don't know how that ended up being the worst matchup but it was a four or five and it felt like they were the two worst teams. Well because they didn't have Luca and they didn't have to rant. Right. I mean, it was pretty rough to watch. And so, and again, another team that can expose you like Oklahoma City.

And you know that like you have no chance unless your turnovers are low. That's your only chance against Oklahoma City is playing with low turnovers. And they're going to go out with a back court of Marcus Smart and Luke Conard. Yeah. I mean, that's that that's a tough pill. It's sad. It's going to be really interesting to see who's at that game tomorrow because it's clearly going to be a sweep. It's a Monday night. It's not like OKC fans are taking it over.

I think it's going to have, it's going to be definitely a weird energy game. Plus, how's the Laker fans lost their Celebrity Road title? The Nix fans are just murdering them. This is a route. I think Boston might have better celebrity fans than the Lakers at this point. I love what you're doing, but it's not comparable. I mean, this next team has legit ambition to get to the Eastern Conference Finals. It was always Eastern Conference Finals or bust for the next team. That's what they did last season. The energy entering the season was high.

The Lakers were always a work in progress. And you know Los Angeles as well as anybody now that you've been there for 25 years. It's a C to be seen kind of place. Do you want to be seen in a place where- They have real fans, too, though. I got to as much as I can't stay in the Lakers. We're talking about the court sides. We're talking about the real fans.

They've never replaced. They never replaced the aura of Jack. And I remember writing about this like 15 years ago. They'd never, Leo never really wanted it, honestly. He kind of let down the fan base. Salame has embraced it. Salome at Road Games.

Salome at Road Games, Spike Lee and Salome at Road Games. That's a different level, right? Like we, to travel to the game, I know it's close travel, but still to have your, to have your, you know, your celebrity fans

in the opposing arena, that's something. Yeah. But then it guy in Los Angeles right now, or gal, that you could put courtside that would capture the moment and that would feel like, oh, this is taking it up a notch. I mean... I think you have to go music. So it was like

Kendrick? I think they'd have to grab Kendrick. Ironically, the guy that handles his career, Anthony, a huge Laker fan, obviously doesn't care about the Lakers. He won't put Kendrick at a game. Well, Anthony told me to... Yeah, Anthony told me to whip my dick out on his show today. He knew how excited that I was.

Yeah, thank God you. Yeah, not Anthony. No, but maybe you have to do more musicians and not do the actors as much. Well, they still got flea, right? Yeah, that's the thing. They haven't replenished. It's like an aging contender that hasn't replenished their thing. You know what I just thought of?

Who? Where's my man Jimmy Goldstein? He's still, he's going all these games. I haven't helped. They don't put him on camera anymore. Yeah. I don't know. There's a story there. Oh, there is?

Yeah. Wow. He used to be it. I used to show him at every game. It doesn't help what we're talking about. We want somebody that's 30 years old or under the age of 40. Last topic. Before we go, Detroit, Cleveland. I had Cleveland yesterday.

I wagered on them. And they barely pulled it out. And they wouldn't have pulled it out if James Hardin didn't turn back into James Harden for like three minutes. He sucked the whole game. And then for three minutes became James Hardin again. Cleveland, I don't think has lost a home game, right, in the playoffs. Hold on.

Time out. 22nd. Yeah. Would you have rather lost the bet and Hardin missed all those shots or have... Oh, Cleveland. Yeah. Just for the Hardin story. Now, I wanted to win the bet.

You wanted to win the bet. Yeah, I needed one after... It's way fun. The Knicks Friday night. The Knicks have been profitable. as well, House. We, House and I've been,

we've been grabbing the Knicks lately. Hell, you could have a minus 30. The Knicks were minus like one and a half today. Like, who thought Philly was winning today? I thought that was crazy. Crazy.

But anyway, what do we think happens? What do we think happens in Cavs Pistons here? Do you believe, did the Cavs do anything to make you believe in them or now? No. I do not, I do not believe the Cavaliers are going to beat the Pistons.

I have Detroit in five. I think they win game four and game five. It's a weird one because I don't feel like Cleveland's playing the right lineups. Granted, I'm a guy on my couch in L.A., you know, and I'm not spending every minute with the team. But like, unless Sam Merrill's hurt, I don't understand why they're not playing him more. I don't understand why they only play one big instead of two. I don't understand why they play Wade when every time Wade's in, it feels like it's a disaster. I would have pulled Hardin.

I know Hardin came through down the stretch. I wouldn't have played him in the last six minutes because he's such an offensive liability. But I don't know. Do you think, it just seems like Atkinson's going to go down

with the ship with the two bigs, Hardin, Mitchell, and a shooter. And he's like, I guess this is win or lose. I don't know if I agree. I also think that, you know, I know J.B. Bickerstaff

from his time in Memphis, and I know he feels he feels like he got screwed there like that he got blamed there and he and he coached Donovan Mitchell and he coached Evan Mobley and he coached Jared Allen and he coached James Hardin when he was in Houston he knows all those guys so if there's anybody that knows how to make those guys look like a semblance of them you know or a shell of themselves it would be him a guy that has really he's been he knows what you know the way to defend those guys. He watched it every

night. He coached all of those guys. And so I am unsurprised that he's got a good game plan against those guys to make them super uncomfortable. Also, they just don't have, I don't think they have the requisite toughness. I just don't. Like, they just,

Bruno knows because he's an O.G. They don't get stopped. Where's that mobility at? Where's that mobily at? Also, like, how would they give up wide open threes at the worst possible time? So a team that's not even that good at shooting threes other than Robinson. Cade's the best guy in the series.

Cleveland's going to be the most interesting offseason team, I think. If Verno's right and they lose the next two, did you say that or how it states that? No, I agree with him. I agree with him. Yeah. So if that happens, I'm prepared for anything with Cleveland.

And also, like, you know, Mitchell at this point, there's a small piece missing with him in these playoff games. that Brunson seems to have, which is ironic because Mitchell was the guy the Knicks wanted all the time. And maybe this will be the Mitchell moment because this Detroit team is a bitch to play against, right?

They have all these dudes they could throw at him and throw it hard in. But I don't know. It's like, I keep waiting for his moment and maybe it's just going to be one of those careers or it never happens, you know? Or it'll be on the next team.

Or the next team. Maybe it'll be in Memphis. So we all think, we all think this ends in five. Yes. I mean, I know I do. Yeah. All right.

So that would be that's plus 240 on Fandle. Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, then they must be, then they're obviously the underdog tomorrow night. So that's a, I mean, because they're going to be favored in five. Well, no matter, no matter what happens tomorrow night. Plus three and a half tomorrow. Yeah.

No matter. Let me have it. Yeah. No matter what happens tomorrow night, they're going to be favored in game five. All right. We're going to go because Santa. Antonio, Oklahoma, Kent, San Antonio, Minnesota.

Who do you guys think the great? Who would you take? I want to get you both on the record right now. I'll let you change in the next month and a half. But if you had the third pick and it was the Basta, I'll give you the Bancel house, the Bancel Peterson, and then the debate that I'm going to be having with everybody

for the next six weeks is going to be Wilson or Boozer. Before you came on, I told Simmons and Tate that I think that Caleb is more of a Memphis kind of player, the dynamic ability, he could be a three or a four. I think he fits what I've come to understand is what your decision makers like. They like that flexibility. And if that kid can play defense, the way that Senator Coward plays defense, that's pretty formidable. I heard you last week, Bill, you love Wilson.

I do. There's no way you can watch these playoffs and not think, boy, he fits in these. Yeah, it's funny because the way the draft fell, Memphis got three. And Boozer just seemed like such a clear Memphis guy, just because, you know, competitive. I liked how he handled himself even when they fell apart and that when his brother screwed up the NCAA game. And he was just like, like, he didn't, he was the only one that didn't seem rattled by it. but I think the Wilson upside is, I just can't believe the tape with him.

I don't want to say goal, he really seems special, like potentially. I do think, number one, Vimvis front office loves analytics. And they also in this new era, I do think are going to try to atone for the mistakes made with Morant, right? They want to make it all about the team,

not elevate a star above everybody else that then gets bigger than the opportunity. operation and all. And I think that that led to a lot of the things that ended up, you know, the, the, the car went off the cliff. And Boozer is like, he is as safe as safe come. There is zero percent chance he's going to suck. There's a pretty good chance he's going to be awesome.

And there's a hundred percent chance. Well, I don't want to say 100, but a 80 percent chance, you never. hear I don't even know he's on social media right? He's not a plus character

not contrary yeah nothing controversial nothing he's like it's like the anti it's like no he's like

in a romcom he's like they're heading toward the wedding and the beginning of the romcom and he's like the perfect guy

on paper he's got everything and yet yeah Caleb Wilson's over there he's like the bartender like whoa look at that guy and all of

we have a love triangle. Caleb Wilson, if you, there's YouTube clips of him. You just watch 10 minutes of him and you're like, is this guy Sean Cam Cross with the honest? I know. And he's so electric.

And I keep thinking of him and Caleb together. So you have that. But then you have Memphis, grit and grind, analytics. This guy is just like a guaranteed. So it's a really tough one. But it might be Memphis's one chance to get like a super duper star.

I don't think Caleb, I don't think Cam Boozer is going to be a super duper star. I think he'll be a star in like a couple all-MBA, second or third teams kind of guy. But Caleb Wilson could be like, I don't know what he's going to be house. I'm literally prepared for anything. I agree. Too good to say choices, though, Verna. I don't think there's a long.

If you threw him, him and Bezellis would have some crazy ass dunks in Chicago. They would make the Bulls fun for the first time and forever. Well, Tate made the key point. Like, Caleb is a chip on the shoulder guy. And if he's fourth in a class of four, that's it. It's like, boom, going on there. The great thing is you can't lose.

Yeah. And it's a position you needed. Oh, yeah. You traded Jaron Jackson, which, as you know, I supported that trade. We argued about Jaron Jackson a million times. I was never a giant fan. I'm pretty sure you can replace it's 5.7 rebounds of game.

I don't know if you've figured out how to put those together yet. One of the guys we argued about was Mowgli, by the way. True. Maybe everybody was a loser. We're all. And the other thing is this, we also got lucky because Sacramento ain't up there and Brooklyn ain't up there. And those are Morant homes. Those are possible, right?

If you don't hit the lot, if you just crapped on your fans again and you missed out And you're not going to get a new shiny toy to sell those sweets and season tickets, right? So you think Moran's gone, whatever happens. Yes. That's your take. But I mean, and maybe you push Morant and 16 in, and now you're moving up again. You know what I mean? Like, I do think that, I do think that because it could have gone different if like

Sacramento or Brooklyn ends up with DeBansta or like say they went one, two in this or one three in this, maybe it's a little different world. But I do think that those are possible landing spots when the trade stuff comes around just because they're going to need something to sell. And he is fun as hell. He is fun. As long as he plays, he is fun. Brooklyn could be your outcome there. Last thing before we go.

OKC right now is minus 170 to win the title on Fandul. San Antonio is plus 320. The Knicks are plus 750. What's your favorite bet out of those three, Verno? I think I would say just odds-wise Nix. I think I'd say, yeah. I agree.

Plus 750 is like good odds. Is Ann and Oby going to be able to be 100% by the time we get to the NBA finals? And it almost feels like if he's not, then I don't like it. And honestly, like, look, Oklahoma City is obviously, though, that's last on that. How about this? What is Detroit plus a billion? Like, I mean, is it not 18-01. Oh, wow.

I mean, again. Minnesota 150 to 1, although that game is starting right now. Yeah, I think that, yeah, I think probably. Minnesota missed their game three was, if they could have beaten San Antonio in game three with Wembe having a game like that, they just couldn't hit a shot. Logan McDaniels was like five for 22. Like nothing was going in. Randall was bad.

All right, Burnow, we can listen to you on the mismatch. Yep. I'm excited to hear where you finally, where, so you've landed on. I have a little bit sound. No, no, I'm not laying. So you made us pick and then you didn't even do a lien. He needs to milk it. He's got six weeks.

If you put my head on a guinea today, I'd tell you they take boozer. But I want to watch this whole thing play out. I'm a lean toward, I'm a lean toward Caleb Wilson. But I may prefer Wilson by the time it all comes around. Yeah. It's going to be a fun six weeks. And would you rather have a house take to Banser or would you rather have moved back a spot and flip picks with Utah and grab it?

have some stuff. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Do not do this. No, you get AJ to band stuff. All right. The first time I heard about AJ's the band say he was 13. And the guy called me and said, I just saw the next one. And I've had that. I'm telling you, that he did it. There's people with the legend of Peterson. The legend of Peterson also is out there. No, I mean, you know that, Verno. The Bandsda. DeBance is going to be a major, major star. You cannot pass on it, bro. The band of Sarr in 22 games of Anthony Davis before he gets hurt? It's going to be amazing.

He's on the trade block. Did you guys see that thing going around about how the way to get the number one pick is to trade for Anthony Davis? It's three times. What was the third time? It was Dallas did it? Pelicans. Right? No, no, no.

But they traded him, though. Wait, wait, wait. Or they haven't traded him yet. You do trade him. Yeah, you have to trade him. It's like it follows like the horror movie. All right. Thanks to Verno.

Thanks to Joe House. Technical difficulties. We made it work. We made it work. Thanks to our guy, Trey Frazier. Thanks to Gahow and Eduardo as well. New rewatchable is coming tomorrow. Tropic Thunder.

Exciting stuff. Congrats to these two guys. The first, the third picks of the NBA lottery. And we'll see you next Sunday. on Netflix. Must be 21 plus in President Select States for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in President D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming. Game and problem, call 100 Gambler or 1-800-Muy-Ret.

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