The Bill Simmons Podcast - Tommy Heinsohn Memories and Fantasy Football Half-Season MVPs with Bill’s Dad and Matthew Berry

Episode Date: November 11, 2020

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by his dad to remember the late Tommy Heinsohn (3:00) before he is joined by ESPN's Matthew Berry to take a look at the fantasy football season including boom and busts, fantasy MVP candidates, fantasy playoff waiver pickups, and more (38:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming up, we're going to talk about the late great Tommy Heinsohn, and we're going to talk about fantasy football, half-season MVPs, and some predictions for where we're going, heading down the home stretch. That's all next. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this, it's game day, all the gangs here, you're tailgating outside the stadium. It's a great time for beer. Or how about when you're standing at the grill and the smell of sizzling burgers is in the air? Moments like that. Or when you want a light beer that tastes like beer, that's delicious. You don't want to load up

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that was released today. It's about Jeopardy. And as you know, a lot of Jeopardy talk this week. Alex Trebek passing away at age 80. Just a beloved guy. I think one of the highest approval ratings of any celebrity. Really enjoyed reading all the tributes and stuff the last two days. Really liked that guy.

So Claire's book was supposed to come out November 10th. It is now out. It is called Answers in the Form of Questions, A Definitive History and Insider's Guide to Jeopardy. She talks to Alex in the book. She's going to come on this podcast actually on Thursday to talk more about it, but wanted to put that on your radar now.

You can order it wherever you get your books. It's really good. And I encourage you to get that one. Also, the Book of Basketball podcast is coming back on Wednesday night. Season three begins. We're doing all players for this season. And the first one I'm excited about, it's a very famous player. I won't give it away, but that will be out. If you subscribe to that podcast, just refresh it.

So it'll pop up. Or if you haven't subscribed, check it out and you can listen to the entire library on Spotify, anywhere you want. It's available anywhere. So Book of Basketball returning Wednesday night. Coming up, my dad and I are going to talk about Tommy Heinsohn. If we retell a story that we probably told before on some other pod, forgive us. I can't remember what I did three days ago,

but he was somebody that meant a lot to both of us. And then old friend, Matthew Barry, talking about fantasy football as we head into the home stretch here. That's all coming up first. Our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, Tommy Heinsohn passed away today. He was 86 years old. He was a legend in Massachusetts and New England

for almost seven decades. I wanted to have my dad on because, as you texted me earlier, it felt like a member of the family died, which I thought was an interesting way to think about it. But that's how I felt today. It felt like he was in our family, even though he never came to any holiday. We didn't know him, but really out of anybody in the whole Boston sports scene, I felt like he was in our life the entire time. And you felt that way too. I felt like I knew him, even though, as you said, we never met. But when we got our season tickets in 1973, he was the coach. He's

the first coach of the Celtics of a team that I was suddenly going to all the games with you. And that first year he won a championship. And he was like a god. He was the coach of a championship team. We thought it was going to happen like every other year. It did happen two years later, but it wasn't just that though. You know, I had a bond a little bit. He went to Holy Cross like you and I did. He was a legend there when I was there. And when you were there, they had stories of when the team won the NIT. And as later, he became a radio announcer. TV announcer. Well, both.

TV eventually. You know, anytime they were on the road or anytime we couldn't go to the game, he was the person I listened to with Mike Gorman. And actually, it's even more than that. He was such a devoted husband. His wife, Helen, eventually died of cancer, but she had brain and lung cancer. And when she was going through, I'd say two to three years of treatment, she sat right near us. And she would have a scarf around her head because of the cancer. And every time there was a timeout, every time a break in the action, he'd run away from his seat, go down to check on her, make sure she was okay. He always referred

to her as the redhead, redhead from Needham. Her name was Helen, the redhead from Needham. And as the cancer progressed and there were times when she would get up from her seat and kind of wander a little bit, you'd see him running over, lovingly cajole her back to her seat. You'd see him look over his shoulder, making sure she was sitting there. the usher was always paying attention it was just like a member of the family taking care of another member of the family yeah i always had always felt that bond with him and your your stepmom molly's favorite person of all these years as a celtic going to the game after you moved was Tommy Heinsohn. She had, and she's still at work, doesn't know yet, but, uh,

I really do feel like uncle Tommy passed away today or, you know? Well, I wanted to go through the four kind of phases of Tommy, right? So we go back all the way to the early 50s. He goes to Holy Cross and he's there for four years. They won the title with Coos. They won the NCAA title with Tommy. They won the NIT in 1954, which is the last championship Holy Cross ever won in anything.

And he was this top five college guy. And there's a magazine cover that I put on Instagram where he's on the cover as like the star of college basketball that year. And in the little squares, Bill Russell's one of the squares, right? That's funny. Tom is on the Holy Cross thing. So he graduates. He's considered to be, you know, he'd be like a high lottery pick now in today's NBA. But the Celtics have this wrinkle, which they had in the,

this is nine years into the NBA, they had these territorial picks. And if you had a college star in your territory, you just got to take the college star. So they already had Kuzi and then Heinsohn. And they're like, yeah, we'll take Heinsohn. But it's also the same draft they get Bill Russell. So they get Bill Russell and Heinsohn.

And Heinsohn, they just get for free just because he played 40 minutes away. So it's another local hero. Now you have two local heroes plus Bill Russell. And that first year, his rookie year, they win the title. Seven games against St. Louis. And he has this legendary game

in game seven. It's 37 and 23. 37 points. I always remember reading about it. And he's going head to head against Bob Pettit, who's the best forward in the league at the time. And they're going toe to toe.

He fouls out near the end, puts a towel over his head. He's crying on the bench because he fouled out. He thinks they're going to lose. And so that game's famous for two reasons. First of all,

there's no video of it. There's like little clips of it, but no video, and it's considered the first great NBA game. Russell has some famous block where it was one of those LeBron chase down blocks, but it's at the end of one of the overtimes, and he just covers the entire court in one second, blocks this dude from behind. But then the Celtics go up two.

There's one second left. Alex Handomum's the player coach. He calls this play where he throws the ball full court off the backboard to Bob Pettit, who catches it to shoot a jumper. And they're like, this will work. This will be a great play. And it

worked. And Pettit missed the shot. So he missed like a 10-footer after this dude threw a 90-foot pass off the backboard to Pettit, but he missed it. Crowd pours on the court. They carry Tommy Hudson off. God knows what kind of party they did. And that was the beginning of his career.

So he's in, he plays nine seasons. That's it. Makes the finals all nine years, wins eight titles. And, you know, this is how good he was. He was second team all NBA in 61, 62, 63, and 64. And again, Bob Pettit, El Gibeiro in the league. He won rookie of the year in 57. He was 22 and 10 basically at his peak,

but weirdly was better in the playoffs. And he started every year. In 1963, it was funny when I was doing the research in my book, that was the year he decided I'm going to be in good shape for the playoffs. So he gave up drinking and smoking for the playoffs and he averaged 25 and nine in 11 playoff games. And you read that stuff and you're like, what was basketball back then with these dudes? They're smoking at halftime, they're flying coach, but he was living a full life and his career is over in nine years.

But trying to figure out what kind of player he was, because it's a little different. It's more physical. Everyone's just firing up shots, but it really did seem like he was like a Blake Griffin, you know, Carl Malone type of power forward. Do you remember watching him or no? Yeah, I do.

It seemed like he got every rebound. It seemed like that either he or Russell got every rebound. But you already mentioned his playoff performances were unbelievable. I think during the season, maybe there were a lot of cigarettes and a few cocktails and a few beers. And he never quite looked like he was in shape. But the playoffs, he turned on a different switch. And a lot of people forget that that 68-69 team,

Russell's last year as a player coach, which was probably the first year that I switched my allegiance from the Knicks to the Celtics. Yeah, because you were in New England. Yes, I had been here for four years of college and stayed here. But he took over for Bill Russell. As the coach, yeah. As the coach. And he had a couple of tough years because the cupboard was a little bit bare.

It was basically have a check and then they drafted JoJo. Then they get Dave Towns. Austin, they're going again. So as a player, Russell said in second wind, this is a quote, Tommy was so gifted and so smart that if he had made up his mind that he was going to play every night, the only forward who would have been any competition for him was Baylor, Elgin Baylor.

Not even Pettit could have come close to him. So that was kind of the rub with Tommy, right? Great player, hall of famer, but also was a really fun guy. Awesome teammate. He's by all accounts was our backs whipping boy that when our back was mad at the team, he would just go right at Tommy. And that when he was yelling at Tommy, that he was sometimes really yelling at Russell or Sam Jones, but he didn't want to like mess with those guys. So he would just take everything out on Tommy. And he has this nine year career that now you think like if somebody played nine years and retired now, you would think something happened, right? They tore their Achilles or something. This was just the way the NBA was. These guys are flying coach and wearing shitty Converse.

And they weren't in shape and they weren't living healthy lifestyle. No. So as you said, he takes over as coach, which leads to this whole second chapter. And you get that season ticket, 73, 74. So you start carrying me in. I don't really remember anything until the 75 playoffs, but Tommy was this coach. He was such a character. He got technicals all the time. I don't know how many technicals he got, but it was like, he would get mad at the refs. And it's a lot like what it was like on TV, but it was worse because the whole crowd would be like, settle down, Tommy, don't get kicked out. You know, there would be a call and he would just, he was such a character. He was so demonstrative.

And then Jake O'Donnell would walk over and they would just start yelling at each other and be like, oh, you're out. And the crowd would be like, oh no, he got kicked out again. I remember Earl Strom and Tommy seemed to have a love-hate relationship. Yeah, mostly hate. Mostly hate.

It looked like his head was going to explode. Oh, he would get so mad. Yeah, in those moments. I remember reading... Go ahead. Well, I was going to say there was that one game, which I do have a memory of, where I think it was Cleveland,

and it might have been a playoff game, but him and John Killley got kicked out, and Red had to come out of the stands to help take over. And I still... I don't remember a ton from when I'm that little, but I still remember how exciting that was when Arbeck got out of his seat. Because it was like, he was like the Yoda of the whole,

you know, the whole experience. And he would be sitting in his seat across from us. He's staring at him. He was the guy that built the Celtics dynasty. And he comes out of the seat to coach. It was like, oh my God, it's Red Auerbach. Here he comes. But tell them about, tell the audience about how they used to let me go on the court.

Well, again, there was no security. The ushers were there to help you to your seat, not to keep you away from the court. And you were four or five, six years old during that time period. I was like five and a half that first year when I really started doing it. Yeah. And it kept going for two or three years. All the ushers knew you because our seats were pretty close to the court. It was one seat. We didn't even have two seats.

One seat at that time. Yeah. But one seat with your legs hanging over the side. And the ushers knew you, so they'd let you. And we always got there early because we wanted to beat the traffic. So they'd let you go on the court. There'd be a couple of bowl boys trying to get the rebounds and they'd let you,

this little five and a half year old kid go out there and also get the rebounds and throw them back in. And then when you got tired of doing that, because that was work and you weren't into that too much, you'd walk over to the bench and you'd stand next to Tommy Heinsohn. I would go. Yeah, this really is true. I know people are like, you'd walk over to the bench and you'd stand next to Tommy Heinsohn or yeah, this really was true. I know people are like,

people think we're making this up. I would stand under the basket. I would hope that there would be an air ball so I could throw the ball back to somebody or that two balls would hit each other. And once I got tired of rebounding for the fucking Celtics, I would just wander over the bench to talk to Tommy Heidson and Jack Killeway. Yeah.

And every game. And then there was this, there was this one game where they took, Havlicek was in crutches. I put this, I'll put it on my Instagram again, but they take this picture of me talking to Havlicek and Tommy Heidson.

And I'm just looking up at them and I don't know what, I can't imagine what I was asking them. And it was on the front page and you bought like 20 copies the next day. You were so excited. I might have bought a few copies. But I'd love to know, but of course, I'll never know what you were asking. You're probably asking, what do you think about tonight or something like that? Yeah. How do we stop McAdoo? But it was just such a different era and he was such a big part of it because you'd have halftime. Everybody would go for a smoke break,

right? They would just smoke in the hallways. And then the third quarter would start in the garden and the smoke would come in, remember? And it would just be like this haze over the court for like 20 minutes. Almost into the fourth quarter and then it would lift up into the court for like 20 minutes. Almost into the fourth quarter. And then it would lift up into the rafters.

Right. Yeah. So you'd have that. You had people getting just sauced. We were sitting around all normal people because the tickets weren't that expensive. And we had, it was just everyday blue collar crowd that loved when Heintzen got into it,

the refs and loved Cowens and, you know, all that stuff. And they weren't selling out. I mean, they weren't selling out. As many people know, that first year, 73, that one ticket cost me $4 a game. And we were as close to the court as you'd want to be. Yeah, we were like probably four or five rows back behind the visitor's bench. So then in 76, we went to the Triple OT game, which I wrote about in my book,

but I can tell the story quickly. I fell asleep because the game started at nine o'clock because they wanted to be on CBS. Probably started at like 9.20. Yeah. So I fell asleep somewhere in the second half. And then with like 10 seconds left, everybody had to stand up because we were down one.

And Havlicek made that running banker, like one of the most famous shots of his career, right in front of us. And I'm like half asleep. I don't know what's going on. And everybody charges the court, remember? Yeah, yeah. Thought it was over.

And so they call this bogus technical timeout. They called a timeout they didn't have. JoJo makes a free throw, so now we're up two. There's a second left. We're going to win. They get all the fans off the court. Somebody punched Richie Powers, and then Gar Hurd makes this. It seemed like it was a 50-footer, but when you watch the tape, it's like 18 feet,

but it seemed way longer than that. We go to another overtime. My memory is it was like from half-court, but I guess not. And Tommy's losing his mind because he can't believe the Suns got this bogus timeout technical foul thing where they're able to get the ball again. Goes to a third overtime, Celtics win. And we got home at like 1.30. And I think it was the most excited I've ever been.

Because it was like, we won the game. We're up 3-2 in the series. It's 1.30. I remember Charlie's Angels was on. They were like rerunning it. I'm like, is this what happens late at night? They rerun Charlie's Angels? So, Heintz is the whole piece of this.

And then after they won the title, they let Paul Silas go. Your favorite Celtic. The biggest mistake that I've read. One of Red's three or four biggest mistakes. That was your favorite Celtic tip? Well, he was the glue of the team. And they didn't replace him with anybody who could rebound.

And then we started to see the Curtis Rowe and Sidney Wicks. Yeah, they started taking flyers on talented guys who weren't glue guys, basically. Who don't have any heart. One of the most vivid memories I have of a press conference was Red Auerbach in tears disclosing that he had just fired Tommy Heinsohn. Yeah. I think he was 78. Maybe he was 78.

It was the 77, 78 season. Okay. And he was in tears saying, the hardest decision I've ever made. Yeah. Because they were so close. They had such history. But the team just wasn't gelling at the time.

Right. So Tommy leaves. It's two terrible years, which is great for us because we're able to get a second seat and we have awesome seats now in midcourt and it's still, you know, nobody wants to go. So it's still cheap. And then bird shows up and we have this whole room with bird simultaneously. Tommy now moves to TV and they first, it was on like,

I think channel four or I was channel four locally, but then it moves to cable and all of a sudden it's Mike Gorman, Tommy Heinsohn, Bob Cous a sudden, it's Mike Gorman, Tommy Heinsohn, Bob Cousy, and it's like half Cable, half Channel 56. Right. You never know. But those guys, as one of my favorite announcing

teams ever, because Cousy and Heinsohn, they'd known each other forever, and Cousy was kind of like the one who was always calming Tommy down. Tommy's flipping out. Every ref is trying to screw the Celtics and Koozie is like the kind of voice of reason

and they would talk and they would have really candid conversations. On top of it, Bird is there. And all of a sudden, we're having this transcendent eight-year run where it's like one of the greatest basketball players in the history of the franchise other than Russell. And so we get that whole thing.

And then Tommy goes to CBS too. So now he's a national guy. He's the color guy. We all know he's rooting for the Celtics in every game. And we're playing these teams in the playoff series. And if you're like a Sixers fan or a Laker fan, you're like, really? Tommy Heintzen's my announcer?

Like, I just want to have Red Auerbach announcing. And he's trying to rein himself in. And so we have that whole era. He does CBS all the way through. And you know, he was really good on CBS. He was. He reined it in, even when the Celtics were playing. Barely.

He just kept waiting for him to yell at the ref, though, if the call went against the Celtics and they were on national TV but he reined it in I think they might have been they might have been electro shocking him

a little bit to not have him go completely insane during the toe cast so anyway CBS loses their rights and now he comes back to Boston

and this is when he blossoms into this whole real this whole extra career that he had for generations, like my friend Sully's kids or people who are now probably in their mid thirties,

late thirties, where they only know Tommy as the color guy for the Celtic games. The guy who compared Greg Steamsboat to Bill Russell and compared Leon Poe to Moses Malone. And he would fall in love with these dudes right away on the team. We loved it. We were always in.

Anytime we poked fun about him, it was always out of pure love, the same way I was a filmy member. I remember, who was that blonde player that we drafted and he said he would be the next Larry Bird and he kind of looked like him. Oh, Michael Smith. Michael Smith, yeah.

Yeah, he liked Michael Smith. That one didn did work. And he's getting progressively just crazier and crazier with the officials, and we all love it because this is what Johnny Most did too, and Johnny Most dies, and Tommy replaces Johnny Most. So he has this, he's an awesome player. He's probably one of the best 10 players in the history of the franchise.

Wins eight titles. Coaches, wins two titles. And then has this third act as like the Johnny Most chicker for Celtic fans of this whole generation that only knows him for that. And on top of it,

I left out this part. He takes over the players union for Koozie in the early 60s. Koozie's the first, but they're not getting anything done. It goes to Heinzen. The famous 1964 All-Star game in Boston. Heinzen

and Oscar Roberts and a couple other guys are like, we got to strike this game. It's in Boston. There's a snowstorm. It's a big TV game. They're trying to get a new TV contract and they want the league to, the owners to recognize these basic rights, right? Just like, can you recognize our union? A couple of basic things, healthcare, things like that. And they decide not to play. And they have this vote in the locker room and it's like 10 to eight between the players and Heinsohn's side ends up convincing everyone

else we can't play. So a half hour before the game, they tell the owners they're not playing. The owners begrudgingly agree to recognize the union. And it's the most important labor moment in the history of the league. He's running the union during this. He's in charge of it. So he has all these different phases plus the Holy Cross, where by the time I got to Holy Cross, Heinzen and Kuzi, it was like, man, could we get back to the Gloriers? You were there in 69, the late 60s, all the way through 69. And the legacy of those guys was really strong, right? Yeah, he certainly helped the college recruit.

That's when they brought in Ron Texer and Eddie Sedet and they brought in the high school coach who had Lou Alcindor at the time thinking they might even recruit Alcindor. Right. This was 65. They didn't, but they had some really, really good teams

for about four or five years. And the legacy of it mattered, the fact that we had these two historic guys who won titles at Holy Cross. And even when I was there in the late 80s, early 90s, there was this feeling like, hey, we have the DNA here. We have these two guys that are still alive. I mean, when I got there in 65, it was only 11 years after the Heinzen team won the NAT. Right. it was only 11 years after the Heinzen team won the NAT.

I mean, Holy Cross was a national, a recognized national power at the time. It's amazing to think. Amazing to think, yeah. You know, he actually has a fifth stage that he's extremely famous for. He's quite a painter. And his artwork goes for thousands and thousands of dollars. People love the opportunity to buy one of his pieces of art when they become available.

A wonderful painter. Well, and then the sixth stage, which I think people are realizing if you read some of the tributes today is like, so Arbeck starts getting old, right? Arbeck's the Yoda of the team. And when Lembias dies, he's never really the same after that. And he's still around. He's in the mix, but he's not the orchestrator like he was. He hands things over to Dave Gavitt. Patino comes in, takes his presidency.

We'll never forgive Patino for that and 20 other things. And then he becomes kind of this emeritus kind of conciliary type like Vito Corleone at the end of The Godfather. And then he passes away in the mid-2000s. And Tommy becomes the guy to link all the generations because Koozie's in Worcester.

He's kind of out of it at that point for the most part. Bill Russell's in Seattle. He wouldn't even come back really until they gave him the statue a couple years ago. And he had his reasons for that, which I've talked about on the Book of Basketball pod. Heinsen was the guy who had all the links to everybody. He played and coached Havlicek. He played with Russell and the Jones boys, played with Koozie, coached all those dudes in the seventies and announced everybody from the

eighties on. And then if you're a player or a coach in the team, he was kind of the guy you had to get to like you, you know, whoever you're a new guy or you knew rookie, that was the guy you wanted to impress. Tommy was kind of the leprechaun in a lot of ways. And that's where he eventually evolved into the last 25 years, I think. Well, I think in addition to that, from what I've read,

as the players joined the team over the next 30 years while he was involved with television, he had their back. Yeah. I mean, he had their back in a funny way to us when he would go after the referees

or, you know, obviously a Celtic never committed a foul. He had their back. And I think they really appreciated that. I would watch over the years, former players always come down and talk to him before the games. He was the common thread, as you said, from late 50s all the way to 2020. It was the thread. Really from

the first title all the way through to today. He was also, you forget, he's like 6'4". He put on a little weight after. He was a physically imposing guy. I think he's bigger than 6'4 or maybe 6'5 whatever he ended up in I forget

the exact type but I remember Jacko and I told this story a few months ago on this podcast when we went up to him at the force which ironically the force is also closing Tommy was there all the time and Jacko and I were there one night we saw him and we were like fuck it and we just went over

brought it say we were Holy Cross guys when. And we just went over, brought it, say we were Holy Cross guys. When are we going to get good at basketball again? Got him going, talked to him for 20 minutes, had a drink with him. He signed Jacko's bill. It was like everything we wanted from the interaction.

And we had always like, we were always like someday, someday we're going to talk to Tommy, you know, and we'll run into him at some point. And it was everything we wanted. I think a lot of people had interactions like that. He was also, when he was coaching and playing too, he was a guy,

that was when the reporters were around the players. Like he had, I remember with Bob Ryan, Bob Ryan's talked about it. Like they had a huge falling out when Ryan was covering the team and they ended up making up much later, but you were so tight with the, you were so around each other and they're flying on coach and the media's on the plane and they're around each other. They're having drinks in the hotel bar. He's this link to this other era. I remember when you had Bob Ryan on your podcast within the last year, as you said, he talked about the falling out with Tommy. Tommy wouldn't talk to him.

And eventually, fortunately, they reconciled. Because it meant a lot to Ryan to reconcile with Tommy. It was a big part of Ryan's life. Yeah. Well, Tommy was definitely, I think the new owners figured it out pretty quickly too. That you want Tommy, take care of Tommy, protect Tommy at all times. You want him in your corner. Yeah.

You want him in your corner. He's an institution. So I think just looking at this big picture, obviously he had an awesome life and an awesome career, but you think like there's certain franchises like the Celtics and the Lakers and the Knicks and some of the baseball franchises. And I think some of the hockey, the original six franchises where you just have generations and generations of fans, right?

So you have the Celtics team. They start in 1946. They start in Boston. And I think you're the seventh oldest or the seventh longest tenured season ticket holder at this point. But you have generations of fans who grew up with this team, which is so different than, I don't know,

if like, let's say the Charlotte Hornets. They've only been around 30 years. The Celtics have been around, like your great, great grandparents might have been Celtic fans. And Heintzen,

for him to tie all of those generations together, it's really unique. I don't even think the Lakers have a guy like that. You know, like the Lakers basically have Elgin Baylor and Jerry West, but both of them have kind of worked for other teams. They probably would say something like Chick Hearn,

but he died. He wasn't a player and he wasn't a coach. Right. And with the Knicks, it would be like you would point at somebody like Marv Albert, but then Marv Albert left and announced another team. One of the unique things with Tommy is it was always the Celtics. He never coached another team. He could have coached. There was one of the stories today that apparently the Rockets tried to hire him in 79-80 to be a coach. He was out. He didn't want to do it. So when you just talk about terms of service to go from 1956 to 2020 with the same franchise, I guess Phil Rizzuto maybe was like that with the Yankees. It was the same kind of

thing, right? Played immediately announced and that was it. Except he never coached. Again, people forget, because it was over 40 years ago, two world championships as a coach. Yeah. Significant. At a time when after Bill Russell retired,

people wondered what would happen to the franchise. Would they go back to glory years? And he was a good coach. As you said, crazy on the sidelines. But I always appreciated him as a dad because he let you do whatever you want. When I was five, yeah. I mean, he never told you to go away or get out of here, kid.

There's some good stuff written about him. John Powers wrote a book called The Short Season, which is basically about covering that Celtics team as Tommy and Red when Red finally had to fire Tommy, but just that unhappy year. But it's a lot about the previous few years too. And then Tommy wrote an autobiography that I really enjoyed when I was researching, doing all the research for my book. He had a lot of nuggets in there.

I think it was called Give Him the Hook. Oh, I never read it. Tommy, his famous shot was like the running hook, which now if you looked at it, like the advanced metrics people would have a heart attack if they saw what a bad shot that was. But it looked good when it went in. An authorized autobiography. It was an autobiography. And, and he kind of, you know, talked about his life and career and had some really funny moments in there. It was valuable because he was really candid.

So talking about people from his era and stuff. So yeah, I, the Celtics franchise. Koozie's still here, thank God. I think he's 90. But he's not around the team like Tommy was. And Tommy, even in the last five, six years, he stopped going on road trips. Made sense. He's in his 80s. Was still doing games every once in a while.

And then was doing the studio. I thought he did a nice job transitioning with Scalabrini because, as you said, he didn't want to go on the road anymore. And I think from what I've read and what Scalabrini has said, he helped mentor Scalabrini not to take his place, but to be in that seat on the road. Yeah. And tough thing to do because I'm sure Tommy wanted to seat on the road. Yeah. And a tough thing to do

because I'm sure Tommy wanted to be on the road. After he lost his wife though, the traveling was reduced quite a bit. Well, what a career. And look, I think when you're a sports fan, especially if you refer to the same team for a long time, you have those people that are attached to the team. If you're lucky, that

just they've, as you said, feel like part of the family. He was 100% one of those guys. And now that he's gone, I don't... Koozie's like that, but Koozie really hasn't been in our lives that much just because he took a huge backseat the last 20

years. Tommy was still in my life. I was still watching Tommy in pregame shows six months ago, seven, whatever the, before the pandemic started where early March. And I still care. I, it's funny.

I still cared about what he thought about basketball. I still really respected his opinion. He would have these old school, you know, be like, this guy's not physical enough or they're playing too slow. He would call a lot of the clock toilet offense stuff out that you and I both hated, like, ah, they got to move. There's no movement. Well, you and I would always talk about ex-athletes

who lost their fastball, either in interviews or as announcers. And he never lost his fastball. I agree. Johnny Most did near the end. The wheels came off. He refined it. Again, I feel like he's been in my life for so many years. It's like losing

Uncle Tommy. He won't be at the dinner table for Thanksgiving. It's sad. Yeah. All right. Thanks for coming on, Dad. Appreciate it. All right. Take care, son. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance.

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you don't have to think about your motor oil. Instead, you can think about how your engine sounds, how your stomach feels as the RPMs build, how your wheels hug the curves and how with the pens oil platinum up to 15 year 800 000 kilometer protection guarantee your adventures will be many pens oil long may we drive available at your local canadian tire enrollment required keep your receipts other conditions apply see pens oil.ca slash warranty for full details all right every year around this time matthew texts me and says, we got to do our halfway fantasy look at the whole thing. What's going on? I'm like, oh, you're right. And then we do it this year. I texted you. I was ahead of the game. I was really proud of myself.

It's unbelievable. I think that may be in the, you and I have been doing this for over a decade. That might be the first time you've ever been ahead of the game. Like literally in August, I have to remind you. I'll be like, yo, hey, should we do our preview? And you're like, oh shit, that's right. It's August. I'm like, so I'm impressed. Well, you know, I'm crushing it in both of my fantasy leagues this year. So fantasy is on my mind a lot.

I'm doing really well. One of the reasons is Kyler Murray, who is second in fantasy points. And we're going to do our halfway MVPs and some predictions. And we're also going to do Murderers Club for the all-star team of people that murdered fantasy owners this year. But first, Kyler Murray. So he's 10 points behind Mahomes. But just the fact that he's 10 points behind Mahomes is amazing.

He's single-handedly won a couple of weeks, including this past week on Sunday. 10 points behind Mahomes, but just the fact that he's 10 points behind Mahomes is amazing. He's single-handedly won a couple of weeks, including this past week on Sunday. And this is a rare case, Matthew Barry, of somebody getting a ton of hype before the season and delivering on the hype. This never happens. A thousand percent. He was the most common answer to who could be this year's Lamar Jackson. And the answer was always Kyler Murray because of the rushing ability, second year in a system, fantasy-friendly offense under Kingsbury. And, oh, by the way, they just added DeAndre Hopkins. So just to give you some more stats on Kyler Murray, right?

So he's the number one quarterback on a per-game basis this season. He's averaging 29.2 fantasy points per game. That's 1.5 more points per game than Lamar Jackson averaged last season. As you remember, Bill, Lamar Jackson last year, not only was the number one quarterback in fantasy, not only was the number one player in fantasy, Lamar Jackson had the greatest season in fantasy football history last year. Kyle Murray is outpacing him right now.

He's been a top five quarterback in six of eight games this season. And I'll give you this crazy stat that we looked up. So here's an entire list of players that are averaging 65 rushing yards and a rushing touchdown per game this season. That's what they're averaging over 65 rushing yards and at least one rushing touchdown a game. Dalvin Cook, Derrick Henry, Kyler Murray. Oh my God.

Like, that's the entire list. So, like, literally just as a, quote, running back, Kyler Murray is among the elite. And then you add the passing

and he's a special kid. It's weird. You don't hear people talking about the hand size anymore, do you? Well, the other thing is it feels like he's getting better. That's what I really enjoyed it from where he's gone from week one to week 10. And, you know, I'm sure he's getting used to certain guys in the team and second year and you're just getting more comfortable, but he's figured out that when to take off, when to stay in, when my team really needs me to get 11 yards.

It's really thrilling to watch. When you watch him, I feel like he, like more than any other player in the NFL, Kyler Murray is one of those guys that you're watching and you can just sort of see the moment of that play where Kyler Murray's just like, screw it, I'll do it myself. He's looking at the top and he's like, all right, F it, man. I'm doing this myself. Get out of my way. He's a special guy.

On a fun team too. And a guy who also, I think is really legit in the MVP conversation now. So there's a world in which Arizona could be competing for like a top three seed. He could be deciding hundreds of thousands of fantasy playoffs and also battling for the MVP, which basically the same situation Lamar was in last year.

I think I just enjoy watching him more than Lamar because of the possibility of the 400-yard passing game. You never know what's going to happen. He's, yeah, I mean, he's crazy. I mean, one of the things that we talked about coming into the league last year was the fact that, and I don't think people appreciate this.

I think everyone, you know, you watch 10 seconds of the guy and you're like, okay, he's insanely fast and obviously very mobile and athletic. But I don't think what Kyler Murray gets nearly enough credit for is how accurate a passer he is. And so actually, like everyone talked about coming out of college, how Baker Mayfield was so insanely accurate at college. If you look at the numbers in college, Kyler Murray was just as accurate. I believe this is way off the top of my head. But it was something like over 66% of his passes in college

in terms of accuracy. I want to maybe say maybe 67%. I mean, really, he's a very good passer. And I think a lot of times quarterbacks that are as mobile as he is, that often gets overlooked or discounted. And, you know, we were worried coming into the season because, again, it was such a weird preseason, right? Because of COVID-19, there was this accelerated ramp up to the season.

Like, they didn't have OTAs. They didn't have a lot of mini camps, right? And now they have, like, whatever it was, 14 padded practices, no preseason games. DeAndre Hopkins missed most of the practice as it was. You know, he was dealing with some nagging injuries. Some people said maybe he was holding out for a new contract. Whatever it was, there wasn't a lot of time for those two guys to get on the same page.

And so there was some concern coming into the season, like that's going to take a while to get that chemistry. And like the very first game, whatever, 14 targets for DeAndre Hopkins or whatever it was. Yeah, I mean, they've been ridiculous. Think about Cliff Kingsbury, by the way.

Can we talk about him for one second? The master of the head-scratching decision combined with their offense is really good and it's hard to criticize him, but man.

Yeah, but also a guy that had Patrick Mahomes in college and now gets Kyler Murray. Oh my God. Yeah. And has been blessed with insane genetics because he's really good looking. Like, you know, it just, it doesn't seem fair that, you know, you should be a coach. You should get those two guys in your life at some point. And Oh, by the way, genetically you're, you know, you're, you're, uh, you're this insanely handsome guy. Yeah. It'd be funny if he had like a 14 inch penis too. Just like, just, I'm winning all over the place.

Oh, and I'm sure he does, by the way. And my dad's an oil magnet. Uh, Kyla Murray outside shot at 500 points. I don't think it's realistic, but 500 fantasy points for the year, which nobody has ever done to my knowledge. Yeah. I mean, listen, he's right. He ranks eighth in the NFL in rushing yards. Like he has, you know, I mean,

he's, he's such a dual threat. Like if you took away all, if you took away all the past thing, like he's a, he's a top five fantasy running back. He's still getting a 22, 23 points, even on his worst day with a 30 degree mile an hour wind whole thing. Um, the other MVP of the year, which you have Kyler Murray on your team explains to me why you want to talk about fantasy football. I do your podcast more often. My podcast appearances on the Bill Simmons podcast coincide with how your season's going.

When Bill's season is going well, I show up more on the podcast because it allows you to talk about it, I believe. It's even better because... Like, ah, maybe next year. I have him in this keeper league where I only have him for $18. He's going to be in my life for four years.

I feel like he's moved into my guest room, basically. It's good news for your team. It's good room, basically. It's good news for your team. It's good news for me. It's good news for me because this is the year the Patriots kind of died. So at least I have Kyler Murray. The other MVP candidate from a fantasy standpoint has been Dalvin Cook. So he's at 193 points right now, but he's also had, I think, three, if you had me this week, you won your week because

I was on your team weeks, which should really be a fantasy stat where just like the, you won because you had me this week stat, whatever that is. But, um, going forward, like he missed a game too. And he was a little banged up for another one of the games. And he still is on pace to be in the 350 point range, which for a running back is ridiculous. And then if you look at the whole running back slate right now, it's been him and Kamara, Derek Henry, and then it just drops.

It goes to James Robinson, Zeke Elliott, who's been a massive disappointment as somehow the fifth running back right now. Todd Gurley, Aaron Jones, Kareem hunt, who didn't start the first three games.

And it's just like a shit show. So cook is, so cook is by far the RB one this year, right? Yeah, he is. He's RB one. He has a couple of weeks as you put like,

we'd like to call week winners, right? Literally like, it doesn't matter who else you started. As long as they had some semblance of a pulse that, you know, Dalvin cook plus whatever replacement level players at every other position you want.

Yeah. We, so he's the number one running back in fantasy is averaging 28.7 points per game. The last two weeks, the last two weeks, Dalvin cook has scored 9.5 more fantasy points than any two other running backs combined.

Like he's like, like if you had Dalvin cook in a zero, you outscored whoever your opponent, whatever two running backs, your opponent had like, that's how good he has been. Um, it's been,

you know, it's been a revelation and he's somebody that coming into the season, I had at number two after Christian McCaffrey in terms of my running back rakes, a lot of people did. And then there were issues about the contract. There were issues about the, you know, there were, there were, there were concerns there. Schefter. And I, and by the way, when Schefter says something like this, it's two things. Number one, and by the way, when Schefter says something like this, it's two things. Number one, he doesn't say it lightly because he knows sort of the power

of his reporting, and because he's a hardcore fantasy player himself. But he said, he came on our podcast, and he said this on the Fantasy Marathon we did. Schefter was like, if Dalvin Cook's deal is not done by draft, by the start of the season,

it would give me pause to draft him. So they were like, he understands the exact weight of that statement. And so as a result of that, and we all have, we're all sort of, you know, gun shy from Le'Veon Bell a couple of years ago,

like Le'Veon Bell changed the landscape for fantasy managers because of that season where he was drafted very highly and then sat up the entire year. So Dalvin Cook slid in drafts and he ended up going like five or six, depending on when you did your draft. If you did your draft, like, you know, whatever the day before the season started, he went up to number two again, once the deal got done, but the deal didn't get done until that last week. And so depending on where you drafted, there's a very good chance that if you have Dalvin Cook, you got a bargain because there was some concern he might hold out for a new deal.

So it's so annoying when that happens. I always stay away. I just don't think it's worth it. For the amount of money in an auction or in a fantasy, if it's like your first rounder and it's like, I might not get this guy. I just, I personally don't think it's worth your first rounder and it's like, I might not get this guy. I just, I personally don't think it's worth it.

I think this is the year though between Zeke Elliott, whatever happened with that, with him and whatever's going on with him this year. I know his stats are a little better

than the eye test on him. McCaffrey gets hurt. Saquon goes out. Clyde Edwards, Hilaire, who everybody loved. He's been fine, but not like a first round $55 running back, anything like that. Is this the year that we start getting a little gun shy with

the running back position and just think like, fuck it, I'd rather have an awesome receiver that I know is going to be there or an awesome quarterback? Maybe, except the question is, is that first off, there's a lot of awesome quarterbacks and secondly like if you said i want safe this year i don't want to mess with these running backs i want safe this year i'm gonna go with michael thomas who's as close to money in the bank as there is when it comes to fantasy you were also screwed true i mean he he's he was he he missed six games and last week he finally comes. He was wide receiver 49 last week in the game against the Buccaneers. Here's the top 10, by the way.

I pulled this for you. Right? So McCaffrey missed six games. He's been awesome in the three games that he's played. But he missed six games that he might miss this week. Barkley was running back 23 in week one. He's missed the rest of the season. Zeke was fine. He was running

back eight up until Dak went down. I'm sorry, he's running back eight for the year, but since Dak went down with his injury, last four games, he's running back 32. He's actually not somebody who might start a meaningful fantasy game again this year.

For weeks 14, 15, 16, I find it hard to believe he would be starting for a playoff team. You have to hope that they're on a buy this week and that their, their line gets healthier. They figured out that Dalton gets better and that the offense, but cause it's been, yeah, I mean,

it's, I mean, it's been awful just watching them. Right. Dalvin cook was ended up at number four and eight ESPN's ADP. So it's fine. He's been awesome. watching them, right? Dalvin Cook ended up at number four in ESPN's ADP. So it's fine. He's been awesome. Alvin Kamara, running back. He went as running back five.

He's also been awesome. He's having 26.5 fantasy points per game. He's been a top 10 fantasy running back every week this season. Kamara's been awesome. But that's another guy that dropped because there were concerns about the contract, about the lower back. Then Michael Thomas, we just talked about Derek Henry.

So he's been good. Derek Henry's I think been a pleasant surprise considering there are a lot of signs for a tail off this year with the amount of UC had last year, the hype, all that stuff. But I, I regret not going after him to be honest. Yeah.

He's running back four on the season. No passing game usage. But people that were concerned about the touchdown regression, that hasn't happened. Tennessee's really good. They're the most boring team in the world, but they're a great fantasy team because it's like four guys on that team.

You don't have to worry about it. It's like there's only four guys you need to worry about if you have those guys to start them. Then Clyde Edwards to worry about it. It's like, there's only four guys you need to worry about. Like it's, you know, if you have those guys to start them, uh, then Clyde Edwards, he layer, whatever. He's been fine to your point. He's running back 15 so far this year, but he has just, he, so he's drafted eighth overall. He has one top 10 finish. He's had one week where he was a top 10 running back and that's been

touchdowns. He's just gotten sort of unlucky with the touchdowns. And now they bring in Le'Veon Bell and we'll see. And now they're on their bye this week. So do they work Bell in more? Bell looks kind of toasted to me. I could not agree more. I'll say this about Clyde. He's been like a cheese pizza.

Yeah, it's fine. I thought there was going to be some pepperonis. I thought maybe they'd put a little more time in making the crust nice and crispy for me. He's been fine. He's been fine. I wanted more, though. I thought I was getting a pepperoni and I thought maybe they were going to throw a couple mushrooms on there. It just didn't happen.

No, no. That's actually exactly right. He's been fine. He's been like, you were hungry. He's been fine. Yeah, I don't have anything exciting for you. I got a cheese pizza. All right, that'll work. Great. Yeah. Then Josh Jacobs, also fine.

He's running back 10 on the season. And then Nick Chubb, who missed the last four games. My guy. Yeah. So, I mean, there's been like a handful of guys. Well, hold on. You left out. I think Mostert was going to like a handful of guys. Well, hold on. You left out. I think Mostert was going to be a top eight guy. And that was kind of the lost injury of this season

because he looked lights out and then he got hurt. But it looked like he was going to rush. I thought he was like a dark horse to win the rushing title just from the one game when he was healthy, the way he was going around the corners. Mostert is awesome. And I feel like I might've talked about him when last time I was on the podcast with you,

when we did a preseason preview. He was a big guy for me. He was like on the preseason love-hate and as a love. And when I did my 100 facts column, he was sort of the player that I featured at the start of that article. So I love Mostert and I agree with you.

That's been a, that one was really tough. Another guy that I love is Chris Carson. He's a friend of mine. He's been a, that one was really tough. Another guy that I love is Chris Carson. He's a friend of mine he's missed last couple of games. Miles Sanders missed a couple of games. Joe Mixon missed a couple of games. So we've just, we've had a ton of injuries in football, but especially at the running back position, which again, not super surprising given the accelerated ramp up to the season and the, the shortened preseason and, you know, all those

issues. But by the way, at wide receiver, like Devonta Adams, like he's been awesome lately, but missed a couple of games early on there. A.J. Brown missed a couple of games. Chris Godwin, Mike Evans, like those guys were all drafted as top six. Not my A.J. Brown, but Godwin, Evans, Michael Thomas and Devonta Adams all drafted as top six wide receivers. Well, and then on top of it, you have the whole COVID thing where you don't know who's going to be there day to day.

The one guy I thought was going to, I traded for him in one of my leagues was Jonathan Taylor on Indy. Because there were a lot of signs for him being a breakout guy. And like he had a huge fumble on Sunday. And just in general, it hasn't happened yet. And I'm waiting on him. We're going to take a break. When we come back, we're going to talk about the most important guy in fantasy.

All right. So we're going to talk a couple other nominees you have for fantasy MVP. Before we do that, I wanted to finish the great greeny tease that I did right before the break. You could make a case Travis Kelsey is the most important guy in fantasy football. before we do that, I wanted to finish the great greeny tease that I did right before the break. Right. You could make a case.

Travis Kelsey is the most important guy in fantasy football. He demolishes every other person in his position. He's untradeable. Nobody would be like, Hey, I'll give you Travis Kelsey for John News Smith and a receiver. Like if you have Travis Kelsey, you're not trading him right now.

He is 53 points higher than anyone else at the position. He'll be over a hundred, you're not trading him right now. He is 53 points higher than anyone else at the position who will be over a hundred points higher by the end of the year. So if you get him and it always seems like, oh man, that guy spent $30 on Travis Kelsey, or, you know, if you're in a league of dimwits, wow, you took him in the second round. Guess what? You're getting a tight end who every week has six to eight more points than every other tight end. That seems valuable. I think he is the underrated, awesome fantasy guy.

He's amazing, especially given how brutal that position is. So Kittle's hurt, right? He's done for the year. Mark Andrews has been brutal and inconsistent this year. Zach Ertz was brutal while he was healthy, and then he's been hurt now. So right now, if you get 11 fantasy points a game, that's good enough to be like tight end seven. I'll give you just an example of just how bunched up it is.

That on a per-game basis, 2.5 fantasy points per game is the difference between the number 10 Titan fantasy right now and number 23 Mo Alleycock. Wow. 2.5 points per game. And here's a trivia question. Like I had Thirsty Kyle, who's the researcher for the Fantasy Focus podcast

that I do with Field every day, Field Yates, and had him look this up. Here's a trivia question, which he always loves. There are two healthy tight ends. So we're not counting Kittle, obviously, or Ertz or any of the Dallas Scott or any of the injured guys, right? Can you name the two healthy tight ends

that have had multiple weeks as a top two fantasy tight end? Obviously, Kelsey's one of them. Can you name the other? I think I have the other one on my keeper team. Hawkinson? Not Hawkinson. It's a good guess. Jimmy Graham.

Oh, man. It goes to Jimmy Graham. That's ridiculous. I wave Jimmy Graham. I couldn't take it anymore. Three for 29 and he might catch a touchdown or he might give you 2.9 points. I can't take it. But that's the tight end position this year. That's what's so insane.

Yeah, 100%. Like, it's all, it's very, very random. Well, not random for Kelsey. What? I was going to say, not random for Kelsey. Because I think he's the key guy in that team other than Mahomes. And he's the guy, especially in close games, they just start going to. But it's just hilarious that

nobody talks about that position as, Oh my God, I got a lockdown Kelsey. The same way you'd be like, I got to get a top seven running back. I'll spend $58. And meanwhile, Kelsey gives you this huge advantage. Who are your other MVPs for this year so far? I was just, I was going to say Travis Kelsey has coming into this year, four straight years of at least 80 receptions, at least 1,000 receiving yards. 80,000 every single year, four straight years

for him. I will say Darren Waller's been pretty good, too. And Hawkinson's been good, too. He's been putting up points every week. Yeah. So I think there's a couple other people that we could argue for a fantasy MVP. Okay. So Russell Wilson, I mean, Wilson's been ridiculous, um, in terms of how good he has been. He's been right there with, uh, with Kyler Murray. I mean, he averages 0.7 fantasy points for game less than Kyler Murray. So I think you could argue him.

I would also say Alvin Kamara, along with Dalvin Cook at the running back position. Yeah. And to me, a big piece of fantasy MVP is not just the production, but also what it costs to acquire that production, right? Last year, Lamar Jackson was the fantasy MVP, not only because of the amazing numbers he had, but he was a 13th round pick last year lamar jackson was the fantasy mvp not only because of the amazing the amazing numbers he had but he was the 13th round pick last year so uh so i think you when

all said and done i think justin herbert's going to be right there in the mix wow i mean justin herbert right now i mean as we speak justin herbert who didn't start that first week. Justin Herbert right now is QB eight on the season. He's averaging 24.3 fantasy points per game. That is, I think, fourth. Let me see. He is pulling this up on my screen. Well, two other things with him. He's fifth.

I mean, if you include Dak in there, he's fifth in terms of fantasy points for game among quarterbacks, fourth among healthy guys. He's basically two points a game worse than Patrick Mahomes. This is somebody that you got on the waiver wire.

No one drafted Herbert. Not only that, was available on the week one waiver wire and didn't get picked up that week either because it was like, oh, the Chargers doctor tried to stab Tyrod Taylor to death. was available on the week one waiver wire and didn't get picked up that week either. Cause it was like, Oh, you know, the Chargers doctor tried to stab Tyrod Taylor to death. Maybe he's back for week two. And after week two,

if somebody in your league picked up Herbert for whatever, after week one and you're like, Oh, that moron, he's not even going to start. And then the next week, Oh my God, I can't believe I didn't pick him up. It was a great, it was great. Hate yourself. Fantasy moment. Yeah. I, and by the way, it was great. Hate yourself. Fantasy moment. Yeah. I, and by the way, the chargers team doctor might be the MVP.

I mean, if he doesn't stab Taylor in the chest, we never seen her. That's the insane thing is that Anthony Lynn was like, Oh no, no, no. Tyrod's my guy.

Tyrod's my guy. Like they were only, they were forced to start Justin Herbert. Right. And, um, well, no. Tyrod's my guy. Tyrod's my guy. They were forced to start Justin Herbert. Speaking of Herbert, and I just think this is a good point in general. This is in fantasy. It's hard to thread this needle because you just want guys who put up points, but it's also really

fun to have guys who are fun. Who are fun to root for, like Lamar was last year, like Kyler is this year. Herbert's just fucking fun. He could have 10 points in the third quarter, and you're like, oh man, finally the Herbert stinker. And then it's like, nope, he just threw a 60-yard touchdown

to Mike Williams. Now he has 20 points. He'll double his score in one play. Right. He's, yeah, I mean, he's really fun to watch. And he's also, like, he's also, you know, the guy that looks least like an NFL quarterback. Like, he literally looks like the guy, you know,

that's taking your order at the fast food place. Right. Like, he's got the long hair and, you know, and he's got the, like, the basically, like, the teenage skin. Oh, come on, do it. Come on, we haven't done it yet. Drop the reference. Come on. We're at the 30 minute mark do a peach pit reference just do it

yeah yeah he looks like he looks like he's an extra on on 902 there it is boom he should be on the peach pit asking nat where the where the fries go which table fries you know or the mega burger um so so justin her's, I think in that conversation, and I think there's a, there's a couple of wide receivers as well that we would talk about. I mean, Aaron Jones has been great by the way, he's missed a couple of games, but hashtag Aaron. Now you're just throwing people out. Come on, Aaron Jones.

Aaron Jones has been great. Now stop. Hang on. I'm going to pull this up. Stop. He's not an MVP candidate. He's been great, but not he's not better than Kamara or Cook. He's not, but he's in the conversation. He's others

receiving votes. How about that? Okay. That's fine. Who do you have as your top MVP receiver? Metcalf? DK Metcalf is there. Listen, you can make an argument for Tyreek Hill, who, you know, very quietly has touchdowns. He's great.

DK Metcalf, I think, is right there. And just since we're talking about Herbert, in terms of like guys that you can, you know, sort of pick up on the waiver wire. Yeah. Travis Fulgham, on a points-per-game basis, is the fifth-best wide receiver in fantasy. He's averaging 19.3 fantasy points per game.

That's more than A.J. Brown, more than Keenan Allen, more than DeAndre Hopkins, more than Stefan Diggs or Calvin Ridley. Diggs was looking like he'd be the guy, more than Julio. He's averaging 19.3 fantasy points per game. Like, Travis Fulgham has been nothing short of special. And again, that was the guy that was free. And I'll give you one other guy that was free that, again, you'd put in the fantasy MVP conversation because it costs you so little to acquire him.

And that's James Robinson, who's a top five fantasy running back. Totally. And then one James Robinson, who's a top five fantasy running back. Totally. And then one of the most important titles, fantasy kicker MVP. Usually it's Justin Tucker. Right. This year, Sanders on Miami, coming out of

nowhere. He literally doesn't miss ever. And now he's on a team with Tua that actually will score points the rest of the way. And Koo is the number one guy in fantasy right now, but he's got a bye week coming up. So that's going to end. Sanders might be the new Tucker.

He doesn't miss. They're like, cool. It's a 53 yarder. Just bring him out. Yeah. He's been really, really good. Miami's been really good. And Miami's going to be offensively and good enough defensively to be

in most games. Yeah, Youngway Koo is really good. For a while there, it was Rodrigo Blankenship. Enjoyed him. Rodrigo and I had a couple cups of coffee for a couple weeks before I had to wave him on a bye week. And then you have the Ravens D,

I guess, it's the number one D by points, but going forward, I guess is it's the number one D by points but going forward I think is clearly the number one D because they got better they've added guys and I think going forward that would be the defense I want alright let's talk about some fantasy murderers

okay the Zeke Elliott thing to me even before Dak he didn't totally look like Zeke. And I know he's there from a point standpoint, but if you spent like, if you spent 65 bucks on Barkley and he gets hurt and he's out for the year, you can accept that mentally, right? You grieve, you have your fantasy funeral for your team.

You're like, I'm probably screwed. Or, or, or it's a, you, you jump into action. You're like, no'm probably screwed. Or you jump into action. You're like, no, I'm not going down this way. I'll trade for somebody. I'm going to work the way or whatever. Zeke is like the worst guy to have in fantasy where it's like, you've spent all this capital on this guy. You can't wave him. You can't trade him. Nobody wants him. You have to start him every week. And you know it's going to end badly. And you know, by week 14, 15, 16, he's probably Tony Pollard probably has the job. Now that guy in your league who has Tony Pollard, he's like, fuck you. I'm not training him. And you're just in this bad relationship with Zeke Elliott, this fantasy guy who doesn't even know who you are.

Yeah. Zeke's been a tough one though. I don't think Tony Pollard takes over his job. Like they're paying him too much money. They're paying – Jerry Jones' ego is too big, and they're paying Ezekiel Elliott too much money that if he's healthy, he's still going to go out there. Fair. Like, I mean, if ever there was a week for Ezekiel Elliott to miss the game in this one, you know, fourth-string quarterback in Garrett Gilbert,

they're playing the Steelers. They have the bye this week. He has the hammy all week long. If ever there was a week for Zeke to be like, ah, you know what, I'm sitting this one out. And he didn't. Ezekiel Elliott in his entire NFL career has never missed a game due to injury. He had the six-game suspension that one year, but he's never missed a game due to injury.

So, I think that's a point of pride with him. So, but I do understand that you do feel sort of like sunk cost. Like you're like, I can't bench him, but like I can't feel good about it because I know it's like they're not using them in the passing game anymore. They're not, they're not scoring anymore. It's awful, but he's not my, he's just a candidate.

Michael Thomas, I think is another one, but Michael Thomas still might be salvage week 14, 15, 16, which is all you care about. Yeah. So his is an injury related. I think, so I will tell you who I think is the most disappointing player in fantasy this year, and I think it's going to shock you. Okay.

Lamar Jackson. Fair. To me, he is the number one biggest disappointment in fantasy because the argument, and we talked about this in the preseason pod that we did, the argument for Lamar Jackson

drafting him or spending a lot of money on him in an auction is that you wanted to um that he was not only going to finish the year as the number one quarterback in fantasy but he had to finish it by a massive margin because that's what happened last year he not only was the number one quarterback in fantasy number one player in fantasy lamar jackson was better than every other quarterback by like 40 points last year right so to buy his second round adp which is where he went on ESPN and a lot of people took him in the first, um, in order to justify that he had to be that good. And he's not, I mean, like we just talked about it.

Like so far this year, Lamar Jackson is QB 11. Like he's not even like Lamar Jackson isn't even a top-10 fantasy quarterback on a per-game basis. He's been QB 18 or worse in five of the last seven games. He's been held to under 19 fantasy points five different times this year that happened only once all last season.

And we talk about this, like, again, so, I mean, like, Kyla Murray would have been better. Deshaun Watts. I mean, Mahomes. Russell Wilson. Josh Allen. Aaron Rodgers would have been better.

Tom Brady, who you maligned in the preseason. I stand by it. Stand by it. Well, in my Keeper League, Lamar went for $36, twice as much as Kyla Murray. That's a tough one. That was to Joe House. Yeah. It's a related story. That was to Joe House. Yeah.

It's a related story. Joe House's team not doing very well. Yeah, well, when you spend that much kind of capital on a guy that doesn't produce, I'm sure. Can we talk about the Tampa receivers from hell, like Evans and Chris Godwin? Godwin, who when he plays is good, but got hurt, has just had the red flag on his name for seven

weeks. And then Evans who Tom Brady just clearly hates his guts. That's the only explanation he's actually open in these games. Yeah. It's the, the, the Evans and Godwin thing has been, and I can't figure it out because I think part of it is,

is part of it is, is that they just haven't had those guys all healthy on the same, on the field at the same time. You know, uh, Evans was banged up coming into the year. He had the hamstring issue and then God, we missed a few games that, I mean, like it's been back and forth, but, um, Evans has turned into like, this is going to sound weird, but Evans has turned into kind of like late career Gronk and not this year Gronk, but like remember towards the end, like Gronk would have some of those games where Gronk was like, it'd be like, you know, two for six, but two touchdowns. Like that's like, that's what Evans has sort of become is he's become this weird touchdown dependent guy, you know, and like that's kept

his fantasy value afloat, but like, he's not getting a ton of targets. He's not, he's getting shut down way too easily. And, you know, it's- Tough one. Godwin just can't stay in the field. Julio's another one. What? Can we call Julio a murderer? Or is he more like he cut you,

but the hospital is able to stitch it back together And you're going to be fine in two weeks No Julio's fine Julio is what Julio is Julio is like you know He's a wide receiver too So far this year He's averaging 17.8 a game

Oh he's wide receiver too? No no no he's a wide receiver too Meaning like I got you Like he's wide receiver too? No, no, no. He's a wide receiver too. Meaning like, like, like he's fine. Like, so he is wide receiver 13 on a per game basis so far this year in PR. Yeah. So it's like a stabbing. It's not a murder.

No, not absolutely not a murder. He's, he's been, he's been completely fine. Like there've been other, you know, there've's been completely fine There have been other wide receivers That have been Much worse David Johnson Just a drive-by shooting Where it's like, oh, I like this guy

I might be able to get $50 value for $25 New team Our guys, the Ringer Fantasy Show Craig Horlback on that show, had this big theory about, oh, David Johnson, O'Brien's going to want to prove that this was a good trade. He's going to feed him the ball.

He's going to get 400 touches. I'm like, I'm in. I think that's a good theory. Him and James Conner, both of those guys look like they're running in cement sneakers. Conner, who Pittsburgh doesn't really have a choice. I just haven't been impressed by him either.

So I don't know if they're murderers as maybe Johnson is. Connor's more of another guy that there's you're bleeding from him, but you're not dead. Yeah, no, I mean, I had the exact same theory on, on David Johnson and he was somebody that I liked a lot in the preseason and the volume has been there.

The production just hasn't been. And you know, the team has been better offensively since Bill O'Brien left and Sean Watson has been a lot better, but yeah, it's, you know, it's been been better offensively since Bill O'Brien left. And Sean Watson's been a lot better. But, yeah, it's, you know, it's been tough. And the schedule got a lot easier. And it was a bad break. I mean, you saw what Duke Johnson did this last weekend against Jacksonville.

I mean, I think David Johnson was on his way to a big game against the Jags until, you know, until he got the concussion, like, early in that game. But, yeah, that's been very disappointing, right? I mean, it's been a tough year for David Johnson. But it's hard for me to say he's a killer just because he went in the fourth or fifth round. I don't know that anyone was banking on him as like, oh, this is my guy, right? I mean, there was a wide range of guys.

There was a group of guys that were sort of going in the early season, I'm sorry, in drafts, that were in that range of guys. There was a group of guys that were sort of going in the early season. I'm sorry, in drafts that were in that range and that kind of 15 to 20 range among running backs. It's been a mixed bag, right? Chris Carson's been good. Todd Gurley has been really good. Those are two guys that went in that range, but Le'Veon Bell went in that range. He's been awful. He's been much worse.

Like he was awful with the jets and now he's not doing anything with the chiefs. Melvin Gordon's been brutal. He was going in that range. You know, so he hasn't he hasn't been great. Wait, I have I have another one for you. OK. All the rookie running backs, because every year you usually hit on two of those. Right.

And this year it was Zach Moss, Cam Akers, Jonathan Taylor. Clyde was was being treated like he was a top five guy. And all of those, like those running, those rookies in like that $20 to $25 range. And they've all been kind of been whiffs. Yes. Yeah, they have. I mean, like, uh, and Deandre Swift, Deandre Swift is stuck in, I mean, Deandre Swift, like you can see the talent when they give him a chance, but it's a running back by committee in Detroit.

And like the very first game that carry on chance, but it's a running back by committee in Detroit. And, like, the very first game, they had Kerryon Johnson, who'd been there and was fully healthy, knew the system. They had DeAndre Swift, who they spent, you know, a pretty high draft pick on. And here comes, whatever it is, you know, 75-year-old Adrian Peterson, like, who had been on the team for a week and a half,

and Adrian Peterson, of course, because he's ageless, like, you know, runs out and gets whatever it was, 75 yards or whatever it was. So, yeah, I mean, he's been, you know, it's been a very tough year for running backs because for the most part, a lot of those RB2 tier guys, those 15 to 20 guys, you know, most are, even the guys that have popped, you know, got injured. Right. I mean, like, like we talked about, uh,

like we talked about with, with most are right. And then you think about like Eckler getting hurt, you know, who, he was more than like kind of a, you know, 10 to 14 range. That one hurt. Yeah. Oh, it's been awful. I've been, uh, you know, been that one was, uh, that was a, that was a bummer, but, um, you know, Miles Sanders obviously has been disappointing as well. So, I mean, it's been ugly. James Conner's been okay, but the usage is weird.

The usage is weird. The usage against Dallas was once again weird. They like Benny Snell too much. The other murderer of the year was the entire Buccaneers team on Sunday night where you had, you know, that Sunday night game can be pivotal, especially with all the fantasy guys in there.

So you might've had the Bucs defense. You might've had Brady. You might've had Evans. You might've been excited to play Godwin, Ronald Jones, the tight end. It was one of the biggest demolitions I can remember. Or Michael Thomas. Like, you've been puttering along, you know,

like just trying to keep your head above water while Michael Thomas, is this the week? Nope, this isn't the week. Is this the week? Nope. Oh, he's finally healthy. Oh, wait, he punched a guy. Oh, now he's not.

So, right, it's like, right, like right here like and you're finally like oh my god wait so wait michael thomas gonna play i finally get my first round pick great and then michael thomas does absolutely nothing you know what i mean like again he was wide receiver 49 in week nine in a in a game in which drew breeze is on fire and you're like wait a minute trae quann smith but adam trotman but you guys are paying $100 million to Michael Thomas and you're throwing it to Adam Trotman in the red zone? You know, so. So we won't put Michael Thomas,

we won't put Michael Thomas in the fantasy murders. We'll put him in the, wait, he punched a guy? All stars. Right. Coming up, we're going to talk about, I have a very special treat for you right after this break. Hey, not that long ago, going out with friends was

a little too complicated. You'd worry about where you were going, what you'd look like, who you'd invite, where you're going to end up. Well, getting together for a beer with your closest friends, not as complicated anymore. These days, it feels more like it should. Be yourself with your friends, little distance drinks. Who knows? Maybe you're on a Zoom having a cocktail. As the original light beer, Miller Lite has always believed in this. That's what Miller time is all about. As you know, it's funny we're doing this today talking about Tommy Heinsohn because I discovered Miller Lite when I was in college at La Crosse. And it's been in my life ever since. The smoothest, easiest, just reliable beer. Got to say, whether you're toasting in person

or you're cheersing from afar, Miller Lite has always been about bringing you and your friends together for Miller Lite time. Do it safely. Do it thoughtfully. Miller Lite, great taste with only 96 calories, 3.2 carbs. However, you and your friends are enjoying Miller Lite time, you can have the original Lite beer delivered

by going to millerlite.com forward slash BS and find friends are enjoying Miller time. You can have the original light beer delivered by going to MillerLight.com forward slash BS and find the delivery options near you. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. All right, we're back. I briefly brought my son on here who's done with school for the day, but he got into fantasy football this year.

Love it. And he was watching your show and you had the wide receiver rankings. And he had C.D. Lamb and he had Amari Cooper. And I think Field said something disparaging about starting one of the guys. And he was furious and dropped an F-bomb and stormed out.

So he's in a feud with field Yates. I'm not sure he knows, but Ben ask, uh, ask Matthew Berry, my friend, give him your fantasy question. All right. So Patrick Mahomes has a buy this week. He's my starting QB. Do I start Herbert or do I start Tua? You're starting Herbert and it's not particularly close. That's okay. Cause I already had him starting. Yeah, there you go. All right. Can you leave now? See, you got better advice than me. There you go. By the way, I like that he's in a feud with field Yates cause they're basically the same

age. And the other thing I like Bill is that your kids are like my kid. I, I, um, I have three T I have three sons, you know, and my, uh, my youngest is now 16 and he's exactly like that kid, which is he, he never wears a shirt. None of my boys wear a shirt around the house. It's,

and I don't know what it is. Like it's dinner. Could you throw on a shirt? Well, you, you never warned me about this. Cause he'll FaceTime me and I'm working. I'm on a Zoom call doing a podcast and he's FaceTiming me.

And before this year, if he FaceTimed me, I would assume like something terrible happened, right? Like one of the dogs got out of the house or somebody was in an accident. And now it's like eight times a day of dad, Dad, should I pick up Mike Williams? And stuff like that. And Dad, somebody offered me this trade. And so finally, I just thought it would be easier to bring him on the podcast. No, see, I thought you were going a different way. I don't get that from my kids. From my kids, I get like, when are you coming home?

Can you drive through McDonald's on the way home? Can you stop by Shake Shack? Yeah. Dairy Queen, you know, so I get, I get that. And I,

the questions I get, should I pick up Mike Williams or whatever? I get that from everyone else in my phone, except, well, you're very good about that. You, I,

I appreciate that. Like, and what has happened now is that some of my friends, and I will, I will say your son has never done this, but some of my friends um and uh i will i will say your son has never done this but um some of my friends like their kids are now into fantasy and so like i've got texts from like i get texts from like this woman uh her and her husband are very good friends with my wife and i and uh like i'll get i'll get texts from my my friend melissa and i'll be like and

it's like a fantasy question. I'm like, let's play fantasy. And then I realized it's her 10 year old son asking, has taken her, you know what I mean? And I'm just like, and so like Melissa blows up my phone, but it's not Melissa. It's, it's Melissa's 10 year old son. It's, it's like, anyway, it's just. Well, the league, the league is in, I call it drunk fantasy because. So he's in this league with these seventh graders and eighth graders.

And it's like watching people do fantasy when they're drunk. He'll get these trade offers and somebody will offer, it'll be like a seven-player trade, but he's giving up the three best players in the trade. And everybody trying to pull those three dimes for a quarter and two quarters for a dollar type trades on each other. And I'm just like, oh, my God. And it's just constant.

They're just offering each other bad trades constantly, every day. Yes. If there's one piece of advice you can give your son, it's this. Unless you absolutely have to, never be the guy that gives up the best player in the trade. I gave him that. And I said, never make a trade where you're giving up less players than the other guy, because that means you're giving up the best player in the trade, which is basically the same advice,

a three for four, but DK Metcalf is one of the three heading out. It's like never works. You can always pick up somebody in the freezer. All right. Most important part of the podcast. Guys looking forward as as we head toward the stretch run here the playoffs undervalued dudes people to target if your trade deadline hasn't happened yet um just people to think about going forward, I'm going to give you two. Okay. Go for it.

I think Chubb coming back with fresh legs really has to be taken seriously. And if you have the handcuffs of Chubb and Hunt, which I do in my keeper league, I think there's a real case to be made for just starting both of them. Because it's like, how many points do I want to get out of my running both of them because it's like, how many points do I want to get out of my running back each week? Do I ultimately, do I want 30 points?

Is that like the best number? What is the target for me for two running backs? Yeah. 30 points would be great. Right. 30 points, 30 points would be great. I listen. No, I like that. Listen, it's, it's one of the, it's one of theheaviest teams in the NFL. Both guys are legitimate RB1 types. They can handle a load. And then there's also the added benefit of, so they're passed their bye. And then if you end up doing that, especially if you play in a league with an extra flex

or you play in a super flex league, something like that, then you're like, I don't care. I'm just, whoever, I don't care. I'm just whoever, I don't have to sit there and be like, I'll give it to Chubb. No, not hunt. Like,

like both guys before Nick Chubb got hurt before Nick Chubb got hurt. Nick Chubb, I believe was running back seven and cream hunt was running back 13. So when both guys were in the lineup, they were both viable top 15 fantasy running backs. You know, what's interesting? I don't really remember a situation like this one with that team

where they have two guys who are clearly two of the 10 best running backs in the league. They're on the same team. And they've actually figured out how to feed both of them. You know, Hunt will come in. He'll have 11 rushes for 50 yards, but he'll also catch four passes and he'll probably get a touchdown

and he'll get get a touchdown and he'll, he'll get the numbers you'd want from him. But usually this should not work. I don't really remember a lot of instances of this being a good idea. It worked last year with, uh, Melvin Gordon,

Austin Eckler among the charger. Um, but it doesn't often happen. You often see that a lot more with wide receivers where you'll see two wide receivers that are really, really good on the same team. And you're seeing it this year, obviously, with like Julio and Calvin or Lockett and Metcalf.

So you see it more this year, right? I mean, listen, you're seeing it with A.J. Brown and Corey Davis, of all people, right? And so, you know, Tyree kill and Travis Kelsey, obviously not both wide receivers, but two very fantasy viable pass catchers. And so, you know,

you see that more often than not. You saw it last year with Godwin and Evans. They both were great last year. And so, so that was one of my things. My other thing I had for you, I, I just love Joe Burrow.

I think he's going to get better and better as year goes. I'm in on all three rookie quarterbacks, but I think it's really worth watching the receivers because this receiver draft was incredible. And if you remember last year, this was right around the time some guys in your league... I remember I waved A.J. Brown after week 11 to my eternal nightmare. This is the time when all of a sudden you might be able to

either trade for one of these dudes at a discount or maybe even somebody they're in a buy crunch and they're just like, ah, fuck, I'm going to wave Jerry Judy. And then he's sitting there. Jefferson has been lights out. We should have talked about him earlier and you've had some stuff about how awesome he's been, but do you see any of these other rookie receivers being a buy low candidate? Yeah. So, I mean, Justin Jefferson, it's been a tough couple of weeks there for, for him and feeling, but I'm still banking on sort of the volume. They have a tough matchup this week against Chicago, but then Cowboys Panthers Jaguars. So the schedule gets here

after this week. So somebody who's maybe you think about Minnesota, like, Hey, they'll struggle. It'll be Monday night football. Everyone will be watching. Probably be another tough game against the Bears. And then their managers can be three straight bad games for Thielen and Jefferson.

And then, you know, you can go there and try to make an offer. I love Judy. We might have been one week too late on Judy, but double-digit targets now in consecutive games.

Like, you know, he led the NFL in air yards for the second straight week. And just to the eye test, right? Like, he's awesome. He's awesome. You know, potentially CeeDee Lamb, you have to believe, I mean, maybe you don't have to, but like CeeDee Lamb's talent is off the chart. And coming out of the bye, they have two weeks now to get things fixed in Dallas. Andy Dalton should be good

enough, you know what I mean, to get the ball to CeeDee Lamb. Their defense is obviously awful. They're going to be throwing. I know it's a little bit tough because of the three-headed monster, but I am a Chase Claypool believer. Me too. And I do, you know, listen, they

play Cincinnati this week. Speaking of the Bengals and Joe Burrow, T. Higgins is the real deal. And so, you know, the bloom may be off him a little bit because it's been two weeks since we've seen him. And so, the time to trade for him might have been last week

a little bit. But yeah, I mean, I'm a big believer in the Bengals offense and Joe Burrow. And I love T Higgins, love him in dynasty, love him for the rest of the year. Uh, in terms of, uh, some guys to buy low, you're talking about playoff targets. Uh, you know, me, I'm a Ryan Tannehill defender, right? Ryan Tannehill, Ryan Tannehill, since he became, uh, the starting quarterback of the Tennessee Titans last year, from that time forward, he's a top 10 fantasy quarterback.

He's been great. Once again, he's always underrated. No one ever likes Ryan Tannehill, and yet all he does is produce since he's become the quarterback of the Titans. Okay. They play the Colts on Thursday night this week. That's not a great matchup. Then he's at Baltimore, also a bad matchup. Then he's at the Colts.

So three straight games. He plays the Colts twice Also a bad matchup. Then he's at the Colts. So three straight games. He plays the Colts twice in the next three weeks. Ravens in between. Bad matchups all the way around. But then check out the schedule after that as we start getting into the fantasy playoffs. Home to Cleveland. At Jacksonville.

Home to Detroit. At Green Bay. At Houston. So the next three weeks are going to be tough for the Titans. But after that, it's ridiculous. And so Ryan Tannehill, Derrick Henry, A.J. Brown, Corey Davis, even John U. Smith, I know he's fallen off, but he did get the touchdown last week.

But if you're tight and needy, their playoff schedule is really good. And that's a really good offense. That's not going to be able to take a buy or anything like that. Like that because the AFC so good, because you've got, you've got the Steelers, you've got the chiefs,

you've got the Ravens. Like they're going to have to try to keep pace to, you know, to, to get a home playoff game and everything like that. So the Titans are a team that I'm looking at quite a bit. For those of you who know that you're going to the playoffs. That's an interesting one.

I, it's so funny how that schedule, there's always a team every year where it goes that way, where it's like this rope, a dope. And then all of a sudden week 13, then, then it's easy the rest of the way.

I got to say, I like Carolina's team, especially with McCaffrey back. And I'm wondering what's going to, what their ceiling is. I was impressed with them in that Chiefs game. And in general, like, I just like how they're coached. It's a really inventive staff. They try shit.

They'll do, you know, they'll do a fake punt every once in a while, or they'll do some crazy third down play. But it's a coaching staff that seems really on it. They're one of those teams you don't want to pick if they're favored by six against a shitty team, but when they're getting 10 against the Chiefs, you feel like they can hang.

I think that's a fun one. Yeah, they play up or down to their opponent. I'll give you another one in terms of it, and you might still be able to acquire cheaply. That's the Eagles So people are frustrated. Miles Sanders, he's missed a couple of games. Get that. Carson Wentz actually was dropped in some leagues. He's still out there in a, in a few leagues. Look, they're getting healthier. They're gonna have Dallas Goddard back. They're gonna have Jalen Rager back. Jalen Rager, who got like a ton of

looks before the buy. And he's still out there in a lot of leagues. So Jalen Rager talked about rookie wide receivers. But listen to their schedule, Bill, starting this week. They're at the Giants, then Cleveland, then Seattle, at Green Bay, home to the Saints. Saints have been an up-and-down defense. I know they look like it's out against Tampa Bay, but they've been brutal prior to that. And you expect a lot of points to be scored in that game.

Week 15 at Arizona. Week 16 fantasy championships in a lot of league at Dallas. And if you play to week 17, they're home to Washington. There's not one game on there that you'd be like, you know, one of the Packers and the Saints and Arizona are decent defenses, but there's not one game on there where you're like, oh boy, can't start a guy against that defense. Because especially the teams with

decent defenses, like Arizona, it's a decent defense, but their offense is so good, they're going to have to throw to keep up. The Eagles have a ridiculous fantasy schedule the rest of the way out of the bye. I think people are down on that team just overall and offensively. They're getting healthier. Wentz has been better the buy. And I think people are down on that team just overall and offensively,

and they're getting healthier. And Wentz has been better fantasy wise than I think his on-field play has indicated. And I'm a big Jalen Rager believer. You know what it is? It goes back to what we were talking earlier, where you want to have guys in your fantasy team that are actually fun. Yeah.

People you like, like Herbert and the Eagles, the Eagles are just a root canal every game. Yeah. People you like, like Herbert. And the Eagles, the Eagles are just a root canal every game. And even when they score, you feel like it was an accident or they have seven points with 10 minutes left in the game. And Wentz just looks like

he's throwing it up for grabs every play. And it's just not fun to do them. All right, I'm going speed round. Okay. Which rookie running back do you trust the most the rest of the way? Because this is the time when the rookie running back start all of a sudden emerging.

Clyde Edwards-Elair. Let's remove him. Non-Clyde. Non-Clyde. God, I keep waiting for J.K. Dobbins to do something. But I'll say Zach Moss. I'll say Zach Moss because I think Buffalo's offense'll say Zach Moss. Cause I think he's, I think Buffalo's offense is going to get better and he's going to be the

goal line guy. He's, he's the one scoring touchdowns, but there's, there's not one rookie running back that I'm like, I have to have that guy. I can't quit Taylor. He's my, I can't quit guy this year. He makes me nervous, man. Like he puts the ball on the ground. Yeah. He puts the ball on the ground in He puts the ball on the ground. The last two weeks, he basically hasn't played in the second half and Jordan Wilkins has outplayed him. I'm not saying Jordan Wilkins is great because he's not,

but Frank Reich actually came out literally an hour before we taped this and said something to the effect of he's excited about the committee, that he likes playing the hot hand, he likes having multiple running backs, which does us no good. You know, I had to trade Deshaun Watson in my other league. I need a running back. And I basically could have asked for Nick Chubb or Taylor like two weeks ago.

Yeah. And Chubb wasn't going to come back to week 11. Who knows if he's splitting time with Hunt. And I really believed in Taylor. And I was like, if the Colts are going to be good, they need him. And now I just feel like, uh, but I can't quit him.

I'm just stuck with him. He's going to take me down into a fiery pit of hell. You know what he is? This is a phrase you coined back in the day. He's fantasy kryptonite. He's your fantasy kryptonite. Yeah, he is. It's too bad. So before people stop screaming at at the podcast james robinson is the obvious rookie running back but i was putting him away

because i feel like he's sort of already established as a as a fantasy superstar but james robinson is a rookie running back that i would you know if i had to pick a rookie running back ranking why that's fair he's ridiculous but i was was, yeah. I like Gibson a lot more before Kyle Allen dislocated his ankle. I thought Gibson would have been a good one for the stretch because I think he's really good. I love that guy. Yeah, Antonio Gibson. Yeah, I love him too.

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ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. All right, speed round. Will a Patriot start for anybody's fantasy title team in week 16? Maybe Jacoby Myers. Oh my God. I mean, like, you know, it depends on sort of, does Edelman come back? I'm not convinced.

So if Edelman doesn't come back, you know, like they're going to have to throw it to somebody. What a sad day. I mean, honestly Fantasy tragedy No Pats in week 16 I like the Mayor Bird by the way I think he's a super stealth sleeper He's always open and Cam always overthrows him They're home to Buffalo in week 16

Not a bad matchup Their defense hasn't been great this year So maybe How many other teams get shut out Of week 16 fantasy title games? Like, does a jet start in week 16? No. And by the way, I would argue there's a chance that no Colt starts in week 16.

I mean, name a Colt that you feel good about starting. Like, for as good of a team that is, like, you're not starting with the running back as a committee. Like, there's not one wide receiver that's been any good They have this three headed monster at tight end Between Trey Burton, Mo Alley Cox And Jack Doyle, like If two guys are hurt, then maybe you'd start one of them But generally, like the best

Colt that has a chance of starting in week 16 Is either their defense or Rodrigo Blankenship Who actually might start That's a possibility The Bears are a fun one for this Because you would say, oh no, Allen Robinson But No, Allen Robinson is quarterback proof

Just think if Allen Robinson ever had an equal By the way, Allen Robinson plays Jacksonville in week 16 You're starting him on, yeah, come on Well, we also might have some tanking too, for some of this stuff. Never know. The,

uh, which, which is the, who, what coach this year hates fantasy owners the most? Who, who is just deliberately stuck it in the, in the buttholes of fantasy owners everywhere.

Uh, probably Kyle Shanahan. Hmm owners everywhere? Probably Kyle Shanahan. You know, like Kyle Shanahan, it's like, oh, Jarek McKinnon, he's our guy after Mostert went down. Jarek McKinnon, he's our guy. Great. Oh, no, all of a sudden it's like, it's Jermichael Hasty and Jeff Wilson Jr.

And they're like, all right, great. And Jeff Wilson Jr. is out and they haven't used McKinnon in two weeks. And so now we're like, okay, Thursday night, Jermichael Hasty. Nope, all Jarek McKinnon in two weeks. And so now we're like, okay, Thursday night, Jermichael Hastie. Nope, I'll jerk McKinnon. So I think him and they use different quarterbacks, different wide receivers. They've also had brutal injury luck, so Kyle's just sort of trying to put it together week to week.

But I think him or the Colts. Again, the Colts are a good team with an offensive-minded coach, a good offensive-minded coach in Frank Reich, and they don't have one usable fantasy piece. Like, it's unbelievable. And the Phil Rivers thing was just such a misfire. Apparently, they didn't have DirecTV last year. How has COVID, just the news aspect of it, has it made your job? Um,

what would be the adjective to describe what it's like to be a fantasy guy, especially on those Sundays before the games and stuff like that? What has it done to your job? What adjective would you use? It's definitely, it's, uh, more nerve wracking and challenging because there's just so much unknown, right? I mean, like in fantasy, literally all we're trying to do is saying like, hey, there's all this stuff that's unknown. And so I'm sitting here trying to tell you based on all the data that I've looked at in the film and people I've talked to, here's my best guess as to what

I think is going to happen. I think this is, you start this guy and here's why I think you start this guy. You know, I'm trying to predict the future, right? And you're trying to do that with everything. And so there's so much that's unknown just in general about game plans and players hiding injuries and, you know, and fluky plays. And now you add this worldwide pandemic to it where the NFL itself is, you know, trying to adapt every single week in terms of how they deal with it, right? They've changed their protocols multiple times this season in terms of how they deal with it. They've changed their protocols multiple times this

season in terms of how they do it, how they report it, when a player is eligible to come off. Stefania Bell does a really great job with that. She's literally on conference calls multiple times a week with the NFL, hearing about the new protocols.

I do not envy her job trying to keep track of it. But it's weird because especially there's two aspects to it. There's number one is the aspect of is the guy going to play, right? We did our podcast this morning and literally 10 seconds before we go on the air, Steelers announced Ben Roethlisberger on the COVID-19 list. Okay.

I mean, now that happened with Matthew Stafford last week and ended up playing on Sunday against the Vikings. But now we don't know, is Ben going to play this week or not? So that's one of it. It's just like it can come up at any time, right? You know, you come in Sunday morning and it could happen. It come up and you're waiting for the Schefter tweet about like no new positives this morning,

like all games are scheduled. But then the other thing is, is that then you have these games being scheduled. But then the other thing is that then you have these games being scheduled, and it hasn't happened as recently, but we're like, hey, Buffalo, Kansas City, we think it's going to be Tuesday. And you're like, okay, now what do we do?

So you're not only from a player prediction standpoint, is it weird, but also just from an ESPN fantasy games perspective, because a lot of people, because of my job, they sort of look at me as the representative of, you know, for people that play with us on ESPN. And we have millions and millions of leagues. And so they're like, you know, yo, dude. And so I'm trying to talk to the, I'm doing something that I don't normally do in a massive way. It's like, I'm talking weekly with the guys, the men and women that run our games,

that literally run our fantasy app, that run the backend technology for our games, and they do a great job. And they're trying to, and they have to think of things that like never has occurred to you. Like, okay, if it's a Tuesday night game, what does that do to waivers?

Because of the way the system is run, you know, it's like, there's been 24 hours since the game. And so then it resets the standings to put the waivers like there's all these different back-end machinations that when games get pushed back affect the mechanics of the game and so how do you make that seamless for all of our fans how do you message that correctly to all of our fans about what's going on with the game will this count as part of the scoring period will it not and so And so it's just, it's a lot, man.

It's a lot. But at the end of the day, if your biggest complaint about COVID-19 is that it makes fantasy football a little more challenging, like you're in pretty good shape. Like I feel dumb complaining about that, you know, given everything else.

It's made it livelier. Yes, it definitely makes it livelier. And the other thing is, I think I tweeted this out Before that Tuesday night game Is You know, or even when They canceled the Patriots-Broncos game Because Cam went on the COVID list, right?

And I just said, listen man If I had told you in May of last year That you would have football But it might mean some Games get postponed Or you have a game on Tuesday night You'd have signed up for that immediately May of last year that you would have football, but it might mean some, you know, games get postponed or you have a play a game on Tuesday night. You'd have signed up for that immediately. Like, you know, I think just the fact that we, that so far every game has been played, there's been some that have been moved around, but the fact that NFL has had a season through,

uh, through nine weeks and that every game has managed to get played is, is, you know, fantastic. It's also much like it's shown a light on relationships, the pandemic. Right. Where you have some relationships that when the couple got stuck together, it just fell apart. Some marriages probably get a little shaky, things like that. Yeah. It's shown that same light on the stability of different leagues.

We started this Keeper League. I'm the commissioner. It turns out I'm a wartime commissioner. I'm not a peacetime commissioner. I I'm not, when things get tough, I don't fall apart. You just have to make, communicate with everybody, make quick rules, be like, Hey, this game got moved to Tuesday. Keep your starters in for the Tuesday games, but send me backups. If that game gets canceled, you get your backup. And you just, you need to have, first of all, the trust in whoever's running it.

And you also need a league of guys that get along or ladies or whoever's in the league. But if you have a league that's completely dysfunctional, that every year there's a big fight about some trade or some waiver thing or whatever, this is not the time to have a league like that. This is where that really falls apart. Yeah. I can totally see that.

So how are you as a commissioner? How are you? So you're a wartime commissioner. Would, would your league members say like you rule with an iron fist? Are you, are you fair? Are you,

uh, how are, I'm all about, yeah, I'm all about fairness. I'm all about, this is what we should do because let's all agree that this makes the most sense

and that's I think how you have to do it and I think there's been some some trying ones right like you know

we added two kind of COVID spots on the roster right we have the nine bench spots but then two spots for like if you have a COVID guy

you can pick up an extra guy put that COVID guy there on our system once Once the guy comes out, like you got to cut the guy and I'll check the rosters. And if somebody forgets, you just tell them. But for the most part, I don't think it's been that hard to, to navigate. I was a lot more worried after like week two, where it was like, holy shit. When they started moving that Buffalo Tennessee game around, that was when I think all of us were like, well, wait a second. What happens if we're in the fantasy playoffs in week 16

and three games gets canceled? What does the team get to do? So I guess we'll find out when we get there. And COVID is definitely getting worse. And the cold weather is coming. And I'm sure it's going to be a major subplot. But as we try to escape real life with fantasy football, of course it's going to overlap and suck,

but I think we've all kind of figured it out. Yeah, no, I think so. And I think, I think, you know, you know,

a lot of commissioners have done that. I've done that in the leagues that I'm running as well. ESPN did a thing where you can, so by the way, if you haven't done this already and you want to, and you play with us at ESPN, you can add bench spots. Your commissioner can add bench spots or add IR spots. And if you're, if a player is placed on the COVID-19 list, they're eligible for IR in ESPN.

So, so yeah, we've, we've, we've done that as, as well. I think the important thing here is just to, just to sort of communicate, you know, with your league. I got one. Can we talk about a competitor or is that, will that make you mad? Okay. I don't, yeah. So we use CBS for the Keeper League, which everybody bitches about. CBS has this bot that sends out reports.

And we call it the sarcastic robot bot. And it writes out, obviously, this prescripted thing about the recap of what happens in the league. But they dialed up the sarcasm, meanness of the robot this year. And the robot will take real shots at some of our owners.

It'll be like David Chang's in our league. It'll be like, like David Chang's in our league. It'd be like another terrible week for coach David Chang, who just can't seem to get his act together and stuff like that. We're like, whoa, shots fired. And it's been this running joke about this crazy robot bot to the point that I,

I actually think that they should make that a choice. Like when you sign up for the league, it's like almost like spice on a pizza from one to 10. It'd be like, give me the 10. Let's get the meanest version of the robot pot possible. But I think ESPN needs to incorporate this, the,

the newsletters to the teams, but with a little spice, a little, a little zest. I think it's been really hilarious. I like it. I'm going to, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm hilarious. I like it. I'm going to, you know what I'm going to do?

I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to call Jeff Ross and I'm going to be like, listen, I need you for like a day and a half, a day and a half. Just give me like a couple of pages of insults and then we're going to put it into this automated bot.

And, uh, yeah, just, uh, just start trashing them. People will love it. Yeah.

This was, uh, this was this week's update. This is Nephew Kai who's on the phone because he runs a team with Nathan Hubbard. It said, blah, blah, blah. Coaches Kyle Creighton and Nathan Hubbard's decisions this week allow them

to relinquish their title as the worst game day coach in the league. Parentheses, Coach John O'Connell, where's the crowd now? Just shots fired. Unbelievable. So anyway, I'm all in on really mean robot fantasy recappers. Yeah.

You know, the nice part about that, though, is because it's not coming from you. Yeah. Because if you were writing the league recap, they're like, ah, Bill, you know, that's, that's fucked up. What are you doing? You know, that kind of stuff. But this way there's, there's a, there's an element of, uh, uh, separation there.

Yeah. But yeah. Well, as ESPN continues to invest in digital technology, maybe the sarcastic rope, maybe they should hire the sarcastic robot from CBS. We can go out, we can, uh, we can look at that. We did on, uh, on the fantasy show on, on ESPN plus the show we did with this year, we introduced a Steven a bot.

So we, we have, we have an actual robot character and all we use is clips of Steven a from first take to like insult us and yell at us. And so I would, I would pitch that. I would say, can we get Steven a bot to a great idea?

Right. Yeah. We have fun with that. All right., can we get Stephen Abott to... It's a great idea. Yeah. We have fun with that. All right. Matthew Berry, we did it again. These are our two pods. I probably... Well, you'll come on at some point, but these are always our two signature pods. It was great to see you, as always. Say hi to my son's nemesis,

Field Yates, and the rest of the crew. And best of luck as we head into the holidays. Thanks, Bill. Appreciate it. Everyone listened to the ESPN fantasy focus podcast. Let me get one plug in for my boss. Get multiple plugs in.

I forgot to tell you to plug stuff. ESPN, uh, ESPN fantasy focus and fantasy football. Now, which your son watches on ESPN to Sunday mornings, uh, 10 AM Eastern,

7 AM Pacific. Sometimes, sometimes, uh, preempted by weird races. There's like weird car races. And it's like, can you just tell me who the top 10 receivers are today? Like, do I have to watch cars going laps? I know it's, it is frustrating. Sometimes it's life on a sports network.

What are you going to do? But, um, but generally speaking, usually we are on ESPN to, uh, 10 AM Eastern Eastern, every Sunday morning, going all the way to kickoff. And me and Phil Gates is to find you, Bell, and a bunch of reporters around the country. We do a great job. And then the Fantasy Life app, which is 100% free, and the alerts are the best in the business. We're over five stars reviews and, like, you know, with thousands of reviews in both app stores. Literally, like, just download the app. You reviews in both app stores, uh, literally like if just download the app, you'll see it like it's a community app. It's a social app. There's a lot

of tools as well, but even if you don't want to get engaged in the community, it's a really great community. The alerts are literally the best and fastest in the business. If you read all the reviews, you'll see that it's like best alerts, fastest alerts, leads to report by 10 minutes, et cetera, et cetera. Like just fantasylifeapp.com. It's a 100% free app. Try it. If you don't like it, just delete it. It's a free app.

Who cares? But I don't know why people wouldn't just download it and try it. Good to see you. Thanks for coming up. Thanks, Bill. That's it for the BS podcast. I was not on the rewatchables this week. They did Toy Story.

Check that out. Don't forget Book of Basketball podcast is coming on Wednesday night. The first episode of season three. Looking forward to it. Can't wait. Check it out. Don't forget to subscribe if you haven't subscribed already. And I'll see you on this feed on Thursday.