The Bill Simmons Podcast - Toronto Takes Charge, One-Man Curry, Kyrie's Future, and the Rest Fallacy With Ryen Russillo | The Bill Simmons Podcast

Episode Date: June 6, 2019

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to recap Game 3 of the NBA Finals, examine the argument for "rest," brand the Kawhi trade an all-timer, answer mailbag questions, revisit Gym Corner, give out Finals predictions, and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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to both those check this out coming up priscilla and i are going to talk about a wacky game three of the nba finals and then catch up on all the basketball stuff we've been going nuts about first our friends from Pro Jam. All right. Let's just talk about the Warriors for an hour and not talk about the Raptors at all. What a team, huh? So much heart.

Like, I know they lost, but they won me over. Yeah. Let's start here. I said to you before the game, I was like, no matter what happens, I want to lead with this. Steph Curry, one of the best 25 players ever, one of the 10 best playoff players ever, two-time MVP, three-time champ,

but has never really been in a situation where it had to be kind of all him in a big game like this since really Davidson, which Jalen put in at halftime. And I was just curious to see how he would be able to do it because you figured Toronto would try to take him out. They would throw a bunch of people at him, chip him, try to wear him down. And it was like, does he have the type of game where they're going to need like 40 plus from him tonight just to compete? And he put

up 47. He was really good. It didn't matter because they got killed anyway. But I learned a lot about Steph tonight. How about you? I don't know that this should be a surprise though like it felt like it was a lot like curry what he had to do tonight was much like lebron in 2015 yes it was going to be different but it was going to be hey man every shot anything you even think like if there's a scale of one to ten one being a bad shot ten being a good shot anything four or higher take the shot and it still didn't feel like he took that many bad shots he had 17 in the first quarter and then i think they did a little bit better job of him in that second quarter when he came in and then he went on another little mini run i still what did you notice that they were doing to him it seemed like they were throwing the big guys out from 26 28 feet so at least he couldn't get the clean looks they were trying to

wear him down on d but for the most part they were just trying to take advantage of this guy likes to make smart plays we're going to make it so that he's going to feel like the smart play is to give the ball up which is what he started to do i don't like how toronto defends him i don't i don't understand i mean this goes back to game one they don't help off the guys you're supposed to help off of the way we saw it with the clippers the way we saw it with houston i mean portland was a mess the whole time because they just didn't play physical enough but Toronto still stays I think closed out on guys they don't need to stay closed out as much and then when you get Curry on those curls Lowry and Van Vliet are not quick twitch guys okay that's not breaking news so they have a harder time recovering and challenging some of those shots

so even if you know they're they're they're chipping him a little bit more I always feel like he's comfortable he's more comfortable in these games. So him having 47 and it being an efficient 47. Yeah, it wasn't, there was never really a crazy heat check stretch. It's 17 in the first quarter. That first quarter though. But it wasn't like one of those,

like somebody would be cutting the clip on YouTube, like some of the heat checks he's had over the years. So no mixtape out of this one? No, it was steady. But I think the thing that amazed me was just the degree of difficulty of a couple of the shots he made. He was making 20-foot floaters,

and he made that banker floater that time, and it's like, you can't believe how hard some of those shots are. It didn't matter. The rest of his team didn't really show up. And then on the flip side, Toronto was just really good offensively and felt like they could

get just about any shot they wanted i so that's really the moral of this game i mean really we should have started with the fact that no i don't want to start with toronto i like when they have a little chip on their shoulder i think they need it for the finals but toronto was insanely good on offense they made a lot of threes we can talk about all the different injuries but i mean i thought toronto won the game three different times yeah Like that Siakam stretch in the second quarter where he went for eight points in three minutes. It was like from 1130 to 830 minutes wise left in the second quarter. And they put Jerebko on him, who we can talk about your boy a little bit later. Yeah, it was tough for the fan club tonight.

Siakam goes nuts there. And then, you know, you're still looking up and you go, wait a minute. You know, like they're back at 10 points. Then Danny Green goes crazy. And then you don't even realize it, but Kawhi, I felt like Kawhi was just like, Hey, I'm going to go five feet from the hoop and just decide whatever I want to do. And he ends up with 30, he had 11 free throw attempts. I think that was the definition of a quiet 30. Definitely. I would have guessed like 18. But at the end of the first quarter, you're going, wait a minute, they're only down four. That first quarter was a disaster for

Golden State. And then Danny Green hits that three in, wait a minute, they're only down four. That first quarter was a disaster for Golden State. And then Danny Green hits that three in the corner. So then they're back up seven. And then it's like, wait a minute, it's still close at the half. And then halftime was eight. And that felt like, oh, man. Yeah. Like, how are they still in this thing?

Because Toronto, I mean, that's the thing. Like, if I went back and watch this again in the morning, you would just laugh at how incredibly efficient. And, you know, we can get all again, like the injury thing has to be brought up here for golden state but toronto it was never hard it was never hard for them so even when golden state got it to six it never felt like they were going to get any stops we we were hanging out earlier this afternoon because you were coming by to do dual threat a very good ringer podcast network podcast we had john elway on today john elway Just kidding, but check it out. But not John Elway? He was brought, he came up. Okay, he was benching.

And both of us were saying, we just didn't see a roadmap for the Warriors to win the game that wasn't like a 95 to 90 kind of game where Steph had like 45 points. And a little reminiscent of what LeBron tried to do in the 2015 finals where slow it down, super ugly, limit the number of possessions. Steph takes a ton of threes and maybe that was the roadmap.

It felt in the first quarter, at least from Steph taking a ton of threes, like he was going to end up with 40 threes, which isn't it? Goldsberry was the one Wilds, Wilds watched with us today. Goldsberry was like the offense should be Steph takes 30 for threes. And that would actually make sense. Felt like they were on the way to doing that. What confused me about how they played tonight. They've tried to play with pace and I would go the other way.

I would have tried to make it like a slower, uglier, less possessions, try not to wear down staff playing too fast and try to aim for one of those 92 to 87 type games where like each team gets 67 field goals something like that i don't know why they didn't do that okay i think the counter that would be this is that letting toronto set up defensively in the half court makes it harder for steph to get some of these looks like there's nothing better than scattered

defense, trying to recover everybody running around and Steph getting some clean. So you think that's the only way they thought they're going to get good shots on this game. Yeah. But I think the other part that, that helps your argument is that when I think after a make, I saw this on Twitter,

they averaged like 1.5 points per possession. Who did the work? Oh, Toronto. I mean, it just crazy efficient numbers. they average like 1.5 points per possession. Toronto? Oh, Toronto. I mean, it's just crazy efficient numbers. So if you're going to let an offense do that to you, then yes, you would want less possessions if they're going to score at that kind of clip. I just think LeBron showed the roadmap in 2015. That it's possible?

Which is like, all right, we're outmanned. Incredible usage rate from one guy. Limit the number of possessions. Slow it down. Make it a game with no flow. Use a lot of fouls and just kind of make it so nobody has a flow. And I think that,

I don't know if that would have worked better than what we saw, but to give up 123 points, that's a worst case. How is this Warriors lineup going to score 124 points? I didn't think they're going to be able to get to 100 no and your point before this whole thing started today like you made a good point we're sitting in the office and you go okay put stuff down for what 30 30 plus okay I gave him 40 I was like let's give him 40 where are the other 60 coming from like you needed a weird Draymond game where he hits a couple threes keeps you

honest he had two threes but they were at the end it was done like when it mattered when this game was still on the balance i went through it like at one point you had an air ball from iggy draymond and cousins i think jesus well um we should mention cousins who got a lot of praise after game which you deserved was abysmal terrible in this game yeah and actually looked like the not only the worst athlete on the floor but like the the worst athlete in your sunday pickup game like had like six terrible plays you you theorize being a i don't know if people know this about you're a writer but you also you pick you play pickup yeah um both you theorized he was like that guy who who played really well in pickup but then made the mistake of like trying to play again two days later like hey you want to run with us again i shouldn't no yeah all right i'll do it

and then he's a train wreck that's what it felt like like hey i should start playing a little bit more yeah oh now i'm not sure wait aren't your legs sore no no i'm gonna i'm just gonna i'll see how it goes at the second quarter like midway through the second quarter curry's three of seven from three uh alfonsoso McKinney hit one. Yeah. Draymond was 0 for four. Iggy was 0 for two. Cousins 0 for one.

Cook 0 for one. Your boy Jerebko 0 for one. I mean, we can talk about pace. We can talk about strategy, all these different things. When Klay's not in there as another defender for Kawhi or to balance out the Siakam thing, they basically were trying to defend Kawhi and Siakam with different combinations of Draymond.

So Lowry goes off. You don't like that plan? Van Vliet has a couple buckets again. I mean, Van Vliet's turning into this guy that you're like, is this, like if they lost Lowry, would they be fine with just Van Vliet? But again, like I know I don't like Lowry. There's just so much that I don't like

about watching him play basketball, but he hit some really good shots, even though there's some threes that he takes early in the shot clock that I don't like about watching him play basketball, but he hit some really good shots, even though there's some threes that he takes early in the shot clock that I don't understand, but his overall numbers are really good. And so, I mean, we could sit here and go in circles and talk about all these different things. Klay didn't play.

Looney wasn't there. And for everybody that wants to go, well, it's still all these all-stars. Right now, this version of Boogie Cousins is not an all-star. Stop kidding yourself. This version of Andre Iguodala is not an all-star. Steph's their only guy and you know at any point whether it's gasol kawaii siakam lowry danny green shooting like think how many different bucket makers toronto had on the floor tonight versus what you have with with golden state well let's go fantasy draft curry one no clay no durant so you'd take you'd take curry over kawaii

in a series right now like if we're playing pickup right now kyle's life is on the line kyle's the dark room dangling from from the roof and we have i mean this is really weird because everybody's like in love with kawaii right now you know he's the best player in the world and we're doing that now, even though let's face it. I would personally take Curry first. Yeah, I still think I'd take Curry first. I don't care.

All right, so Curry-Kawhi 1-2 in some order. It doesn't matter. Yeah, I'm not going to argue about taking Kawhi 1. But now who are your next picks? Based on who played tonight? Yeah. Siakam. So Siakam three over draymond

yeah because i actually because i actually like draymond scoring at this point is bonus like he's great he does all these great things his defensive energy all that different stuff but you know if you don't have a second guy scoring you lose these games he's yeah there, it's not like when Durant went out, it was like, oh, Klay's going to do more. We know he can do more. When Klay goes out, it's not like, oh, now Draymond's

going to score 28. I don't know. Maybe Siakam over Draymond's stupid. Let's just say we'll take those four off the board. Who are the next five picks? They're probably all Raptors. And maybe Iggy's one of the five but i would say if you took he would be one of the five took the best 10 players in this game i would say the words had three of them yeah yeah i don't think boogie is one of the 10 best players in that

game today no but i mean victim of anything that just happened i mean boogie would be part of it the other day but i mean to see boogie like this tonight is not a huge shock because of this injury that he's fought really hard for i mean it's it's well documented that i haven't been the biggest boogie fan over over the years but i don't i don't think the things that have held him back personally as a player were the things that got in his way tonight he just was out of it man i mean he couldn't he had no lift i think that's a hard injury to come back from and then they put a lot of minutes on him in game two. That was my concern. Yeah, I'm not knocking him for that.

I think he was supposed to be playing 15 minutes a game. The Looney injury. Look, it's not close to what Clay is, but because Clay and because we're waiting on Durant, the Looney injury is totally overlooked. And how impressive he has been, how much he's improved. And if he gets switched on to a smaller perimeter player, he's going to give you a chance. And we've said it before. I can tell right away when an announcer doesn't know what he's doing when it's a switch on to Looney, and they'll say,

oh, here we go, great mismatch for the offensive player or whoever the guard is. And you're like, actually, not really. Like, Looney stays in front of these guys. Game two in 2015, Cleveland beat Golden State 95-93, and that was with an OT period. And neither team shot very well, just a typically ugly finals game. And then game three, Cavs won 96-91.

And LeBron, 34 shots and 12 free throws, 12 rebounds, 8 assists. De La Vedova was 7 for 17. Yeah, De La Vedova. Remember, he almost died. That was the real reason why they won game three. Yeah, he almost died. And they had to bring him to the hospital to resuscitate his heart. You might want to check that out.

No, that was Kyle. No, it was Kyle. I've never seen, seriously though, what De La Vedova did on trying to deny Steph at certain points. Like the energy De La Vedova did on Try to Deny Steph at certain points like the energy De La Vedova played with yeah Van Gunney just watches that he'll be like

showtime give me this every day bring up De La Vedova but the thing is with the Warriors today they needed De La Vedova they need Quinn Cook to be De La Vedova

they need Jerebko whoever they needed the random crazy game from somebody they just didn't get it yeah they needed the Iggy game 6 against Houston or they needed the Dray game from somebody they just didn't get it yeah they needed the Iggy game 6 against Houston or they needed the

Draymond game early against the Clippers or Draymond's yelling I'm saying like Bryant McKinney hitting 6 threes like Toronto got 6 threes from Danny Green

tonight which seems like he's going again 6 for 10 oh I just you said Bryant I was like what no Bryant

Bryant McKinney oh that's the football player oh I meant Alfonso McKinney yeah and then I said that guy was dead, and he wasn't. Different guy. I've done that now, I think, two of the last three podcasts.

My mistake was worse. I've compared him to a lineman who's actually not dead. Yep, alive. Alive lineman. Alfonso McKinney. It's the rare both of us just stumbling into the nightmare. I think I really picked you up, though, by making it worse. Yeah, it's great.

I wish my dad was here to complete the trifecta. But yeah. He'd be bitching about Kimbrel. So here's the thing. We were talking at, this was like 2.45 today, West Coast time. So three hours for the game. And both of us were like, we don't think the Warriors are going to throw this game away.

But at the same time, if Clay's not healthy, to put the miles on him when he needs two more days to recover, Durant's not ready yet. You're not throwing the game away, but you just tell Curry, take a lot of threes. You play some random dudes and you kind of hope you can hang around, but you kind of go into it almost assuming you're going to lose. And you're thinking like, all right, game four, Friday night, that'll be the game. Clay comes back for that. And we just have to win three of the last four. I guess my fear is, I think this Toronto team is just a nice matchup in Toronto's favor in this series. And if the Warriors aren't healthy, I really think there's a chance this could end in five.

Well, if these guys aren't coming back, they should win in five. If Durant's not going to play game four and if Klay is 60%, I don't know what we saw tonight that's going to be dramatically different on Friday night. But you could also have the game from Siakam

like you had after game one and we're raving about it. I'm still starting to sit here and get in my head a little bit about how quick I said Siakam over Draymond so i think i may regret whatever i may regret that by the end of the pod but i mean you could have the bad you could have the bad lowry game i mean these are these are possibilities here and you know there's always this rule that i've had for years of watching this is that whoever shows up to the building you know obviously it's these two

teams on friday night like toronto can't match the desperation or whatever Golden State's feeling. But didn't you feel like Golden... I felt like Curry had desperation today. I just think he knew. I was impressed by how into that game he was. I thought... Is that desperation or him just realizing a bad shot for me is still better than...

I'm just talking about when he was diving for loose balls and some of the stuff he was doing that he was playing like it was a game seven when I think he could have held back a little bit. I don't feel like he held back at all tonight. I thought that was like the full, complete Steph Curry tonight. Yeah, the stuff at the end. He looked exhausted at the end of the game. But let's get back to your original point because you and I were talking and we both had talked to people going into this game where it's like, what are you hearing?

I'm like, well, this is what I'm hearing. We both were like, We heard Clay was out. Yeah, like Clay's out. He's not playing. And the theory I had been given from a league source was that it was like, basically, it's not throwing away a game,

but with the injury that Clay has, and anybody that's played softball knows this, you burn it out on first, that first hit of the season, and you blow out the hand because you're not loose that can linger but that kind of injury i'm laughing at myself hope people realize we go softball stats here um that kind of got it that kind of injury like by friday it could be significantly better and if they're down to one i think there's going to be more of a push for durant to come back

for game four whereas if golden state had won what i was told is that okay then we can kind of push durant's coming back like if durant doesn't come back i will be shocked and i think it's i don't think he's coming back i don't think he's coming back until it's an elimination game so you think i think they wanted to split these two today and friday and they put their eggs in the basket of friday with how they handled the clay thing today right and that's not that's not by the way i think that's the right move i don't i'm not criticizing him for it some of this rest obsession stuff which i've railed against for a long time yeah do your thing we can hold on let's take a break coming up well let's rest ryan up, Ryan's going to rail against rest, but let's take a rest

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You can see it on my Instagram feed because they sent me a pair for me, but then also a small pair for my son, who is so excited. I don't think he's had new underwear probably in a couple of years. And he's been wearing these. He loves them.

Are those trampoline underwear? It's his all the time underwear, but especially like he's just out there trampolining going nuts with the cool zone fly boxer brief talk about comfortable it is um if you're someone who could use a little extra ventilation in your life head over to fruit.com check it out for yourself use the code bill to receive an additional 10 off their current promotion of 20 off the cool zone fly boxer briefs fruit.com promo code bill all right rail against rest all right i was listening to a theory the other day about how why kawaii was so from who whose theory was it was kevin arnovitz okay and he was on levitard and he was talking about you know they

were like how is kawaii this good it was a couple weeks ago it was basically like he's figured out that you know more than 2 000 minutes the science says the body 2 000 minutes anybody playing more than 2 000 minutes minutes is a joke. And you're like, well, wait a minute. So why was Durant? Durant was incredible, all-timer type shooting numbers before he got hurt. But then the counter argument from the rest warriors would be, well, he got hurt because he played so many minutes.

Like, okay, but if the load management thing is the reason why Kawhi has been so good, why did he get hurt against Milwaukee? Guys get hurt. I don't know if it's really as much about rest as everybody makes it out to be. Anytime somebody's hurt, if you spent your life's work arguing that players need to be playing 65 games, need to do 2,000 minutes, if you spent your whole life studying something, if I ended up becoming this writer that said, you know what? You need to live near the water.

You are a writer. Right. So I need to live near the water. It's right so uh i need to live near the water it's a healthier lifestyle better mental health all these different things like i would only want to come up with a conclusion with the stuff that i was writing that i was right because i wouldn't want to find out of 50 but like hey you know what's actually healthier the mountains like you know and i'd be like i'd be shattered i'd be like no i wrote seven books about living near the water yeah and you're telling me my life's work is bullshit.

So as much as I've read the science about it and people are very convincing, I've also talked to teams. Like I was talking to a team at the combine and I, I don't know, it just came up and the guy was, was great. And he goes, yeah, the whole minutes thing. He's like, that science is all over the place. He's like, I'm not sure what to believe. So if Durant was hurt because he didn't rest, then Kawhi, did he get hurt if it's all about because it's not i think more of the randomness of

these injuries is something that's hard you play basketball you could get hurt on any play with anything you can land on somebody's foot you can get tripped landing on a foot is not because you played 72 games what about the play we saw today when curry dove for that loose ball and went right into jerebko's knee it's like he's he could have just blown out Jarebko's knee. Did that have to do with rest? I think injuries are most of the time luck. Well, the scientists will tell you, no, it's different fatigue. It's the back-to-backs.

And like some of the back-to-back stuff, you go, you know what? Those numbers are very convincing. The fatigue thing is legitimate. But I'm telling you, there's more guys that work in front offices that read this stuff that go I don't know I don't know I'm not really sold on that so my point to this whole thing is that I've like I'm okay with the with the clay approach because it's not really rest it's them going obviously he's going to be better prepared and that kind of hamstring injury I mean you don't have to be a doctor for this thing everybody knows you blow out your hamstring it's so much easier to tweak immediately afterwards and they felt like if that was going to happen just because he wants to play then they're probably

better off and so down they're down 2-1 they're going to get him back maybe they get to rant back for that game like this is not some impossible thing but i i also think that you know it's about time that we look at toronto and go like you've said, they're just really good. Can I do one more thing on the rest? Yeah. I think guys can get hurt. I needed a break anyway. Guys can get hurt when they're either exhausted or they push the limits of what they normally do is when you start to get in trouble, right? So like Curry played 45 minutes today and they're 45 really hard minutes and they play two nights from now. Whether or not he's going to get hurt on Friday, I would say he's slightly more likely to get hurt because you get more tired,

your legs get a little tight, like whatever. The regular season load management thing, they're not playing four games in five nights anymore. They're not flying on airplanes coached. They're not doing shit they did in the 70s. The back-to-backs, it's totally different. I'm looking at the 87 Celtics right now, my favorite team ever. McHale and Bird both played 3,000 minutes during the season, right? And Parrish played 29.95, DJ played 29.33. If you go back and look at those box scores, Bird's playing like 47 minutes on random nights in January, followed by the next night playing 45 somewhere else.

Okay. But that is idiotic. Right. You're right. But you understand. Okay. So you're saying, because the rest person will say,

well, look at the end of his career. Look what happened. No, but I'm saying like, I think Casey Jones that year really shortened the careers. I think that year and year really shortened the careers. I think that year and the couple of years before, I think he actually really shortened the careers of Bird and McHale because he ran them into the ground and I watched it

happen. I think that's a different thing than this load management thing that we're talking about now, where it's like, I get it. You want people to be fresh, but I don't think we can then say guys are going to, are way less likely to get injured. I also think what would happen, we go to 72 games, hey, you're supposed to only play like 65, and then five years later, another guy would come out with a study and be like, actually, 58's the right number. And it would just keep going and going and going.

But do you think guys play harder now, though? Do you think it's harder minutes? Because if you go back and watch the games from the 80s, they don't play this hard on defense unless it's like a game seven of the Eastern Finals or something. No, watching the 80s, which gets glorified way too much. I'm right here. Watching how bad guys are at picking up dudes defensively in transition. Or just letting people shoot open 18-footers. Guys didn't move. Guys didn't move around.

The idea when an older guy goes oh they'd never be able to play when i back like what are you talking about if steph showed up now he would never he'd shoot 35 uncontested shots i feel like the late 80s pistons were the first team that actually tried to play defense for a whole game every game that's fine when i was studying my book i was like this is this you could kind of feel something shift with that team where you have like rodman defending bird and then he'd come out and it's like now we're gonna put john sally on him and both guys are really trying you know versus like in the mid-80s he's going against kelly chapuka and kent benson and these fucking schmucks

well defensively not ever found the right system well birdie wanted to do is to torture i want there was something i did want to get back to on the whole thing because like when lebron got hurt right is it because lebron's played a million minutes okay maybe then there was another argument when did he get hurt with the real time he got hurt or the not last the hand injury last year or the actual no i'm talking about the groin thing this year when he really got hurt okay and then it was argued well look at the pace that the lakers played and his age and the pace okay i don't i don't care what the pace is because when i watch him play and this is a credit to how incredible lebron is he found ways to rest on the floor and still put up insane offensive numbers but it wasn't

even close to the same exertion. So his, however many minutes in a full season now are different than the same number of minutes five years ago. Cause the way he played on offense and especially the play way he played in defense, same thing with Harden. Hey, look at all these minutes. Harden's playing. Look at all these shots he has to put up. Do you realize when he is off the ball, he doesn't move. He doesn't move. He doesn't do anything. He's right here. Come on. Not not all all minutes are not created equal so to just baseline say this many minutes is too many and it's the same for everybody everybody's injuries are different and it's kind of like the baseball thing that you were alluding

to with Steph tonight was 45 really tough playoff and they're playing two nights from now and he's gonna have the same load again it's the same thing as a starting pitcher like in game four of a series who had like 88 intensely anxiety-filled pitches where that's way harder than like 110 112 pitches in a game in august rant over i'm with you i mean i i look at the best ever example of this is when Kobe Bryant blew out his Achilles. That was the same year when they were stupidly, he just decided he's going to play 48 minutes. Remember that? Yeah. It's like, I'm playing 48 minutes every game.

And people are like, this is great. Kobe's a fucking warrior. Nobody wants it more. He's this guy's. You think you don't think he's got another ring? You think this guy's not tough, Ryan Rosillo? And then guess what happened? He blew his Achilles out,

and it was stupid that he was playing 48 minutes a game. It was idiotic. Well, wait a minute. Has this just become a pro-rest argument, though? Because that's what it feels like. No, I'm saying that's an occasion where somebody was pushing his body to the limits. I think with Kawhi,

whether he played 60 games or 70 games, I don't think it would have really affected his chances to get injured in the finals. No, I think he's playing this well because Kawhi's fucking awesome. Maybe. Would he have been as awesome if he played 70 games instead of 60?

Like, we don't know. My guess would be yes. But if he played 82 games and he played 3,000 minutes during the regular season. Like, here's another good example. I remember Duncan. So Duncan goes 0-2 and 0-3, wins the back-to-back MVPs. Not Arnie Duncan, Tim. regular season like here's another good example i remember duncan so duncan goes oh two and oh three wins the back to back mvps not arnie duncan tim tim duncan 2003 the other

duncan remember that spurs team the oh three team yeah name name name the top seven from that team uh elliot parker elliot's gone elliot's already gone all right uh parker ginobili um rasha nastarevich i don't think he's there yet he's there was he oh five because they had a run of the worst centers ever that they put next to him it was truly remarkable robinson's still there oh okay um is that his last year yeah yeah i'll give it to you i just found it so the jackson duncan parker bowen steven jackson of the grandland basketball hour david robinson malik rose manu ginobi old steve smith speedy claxton steve kerr that was their top 10 duncan goes 31 81 minutes in the regular season

so almost 3200 minutes then we go to the playoffs it used to be thick back then yeah go to the playoffs Duncan in the playoffs they play 24 games

he plays 1000 playoff minutes I've looked at that he goes almost 4300 minutes then next year they do it again he makes the western finals then he plays the olympics and these say he was hurt off 2005 and they win the title anyway but he's like 70 that's a case of like all right that guy got pushed too far yeah yeah i'm look i'm not arguing against that i just think that there are certain things where it becomes it's just i disagree with some of it and look nba teams disagree with some of it too like i just think everybody's different that's the point everyone is different we don't know what it means it doesn't mean clay clay got hurt because he's trying to stick his leg out to draw a foul and he landed

awkward and and you know we talked about how dumb it was that yannis didn't play more minutes in Clay got hurt because he tried to stick his leg out to draw a foul, and he landed awkward. Well, we talked about how dumb it was that Giannis didn't play more minutes in that game seven and got a couple emails from people like, wait a second, you're telling us how stupid it was that Embiid played all those minutes. Then why should Giannis have played all those? You got to pick a side. Do you really need that question answered? Well, I was just like, Giannis have played all that? Like you got to pick a side. Do you really need that question answered?

Well, I was just like, how can you not figure out the difference? Giannis is a peak athlete who should be able to play 47 minutes in a game seven. In Bede, we have this incredible track record of- He's tired every game. Once he passed 30 minutes, he's exhausted, his hands are on his knees, and it looks like he's going to die.

That's the difference. Yeah. And it's up to a coach to know, I know have to play my guys i got to extend them but i mean there's that point of no return where you have to figure out a way to steal a couple minutes to keep the guy on the bench and run your offense a little differently or ask somebody to do something that maybe isn't in their comfort level instead of going okay i need to keep my best names out here the entire time but look none of this this whole, all of it's kind of irrelevant because there's nothing more important

than the fact that it was one scorer with Golden State who had no secondary guy he could even count on. I don't want to even use tertiary here, but it would fit perfectly. And their defense sucked. And Toronto was great. So, you know, I mean, Danny Green went nuts. Let's talk about Toronto

because I don't want to get the emails from the podcast. I keep trying to. The Toronto fans, I'm really happy for them. They've been a really good fan base. Not a lot of good things have happened to them and they really hit rock bottom a few times with the LeBron thing. Just play it cool.

Act like you've been there before. Well, they haven't. That'd be my advice i know but just listen to me listen to sage i've won a lot of titles i'm just giving them some advice just um you are on fire last couple decades have been good for you i've been here i've had some experience not everyone's out to get you everybody's enjoying your run you're doing really well and right now we're going to talk about how good your team's been kyle lowry who sucked in the first two games and you and i are okay in game one i thought he's okay he couldn't he wasn't shooting that well but he's playing hard at least he was really good tonight

he took 16 shots and made eight i disagreed with i think 12 of the 16 shots but a lot of them are going in see akam they got back he did suck in uh in game one i apologize well but he he didn't suck as a defensive tangibles guy no no but the overall numbers were actually way worse than I thought they were Gasol was better Danny Green who they just stuck with which I think Nick Thurns gets a lot of credit for

but that's your unplayable thing that's why I always push back whenever you're like a guy has like two bad games you're like this guy's unplayable and you go well you can't just well Bledsoe is unplayable okay but i mean abaca green has done it before i agreed with keeping danny green but abaca who was bad tonight but you dislike abaca more than i do no but i'm just saying he was bad but like i loved what he did in game seven we were sitting there watching game seven against philadelphia going he's the only other guy than

kawaii that feels remotely comfortable and he got going in the game today and then we thought it was the point where abaca had to play and gasol had to be abandoned so i think the lesson in this once again is that whenever we want to say all these coaches are idiots for playing guys that aren't playing well like they probably know better than we do that they have to stick it out with these guys that have been their guys all year long despite how bad a guy can look in two games in a playoff matchup. And the pedigree of like Danny Green is in a slump. Okay. But we've seen that guy on big stages make the biggest possible shots with like LeBron James guarding him.

So you can't give up on that. Here's what Nick Nurse did that I love. I'm a big proponent of. And I think especially coming off three days rest is a great idea. He basically played seven guys. If you look at their box score, Powell played six minutes, right? Everybody else played garbage time. But it was basically seven man rotation. He's just going to war with the seven guys. He knows he trusts seven dudes.

It's the same philosophy you would do in a game seven. And he was like, you know what? We need this one tonight. We're playing again on Friday night. I can use more subs in. I'm taking this game down. And I like what he did. Like Siakam plays 39 minutes. Kawhi's 38. Lowry's 43, which is a lot for him.

I don't know how he didn't foul out playing 43 minutes. He had three at halftime. He didn't get another foul called him in the second half. Yeah. But I thought that was really smart. And then you look at the other side. Kerr, basically, he played a nine- nine man rotation and he, six of those guys, he just didn't know what he was going to get. It's rough. I mean, this reminds me, it's a totally different team,

different circumstance, but it reminds me a little of the 04 Lakers where they just had dudes out there. They're like, wow, really? Slava Madvidenko? Remember that? Yeah. Derek Fisher was suddenly their third best player. Karl Malone was hurt. Peyton was a no-show. I guess they had Rick Fox, who was still out there, who was kind of the tail end of him being relevant.

But it just seemed like they just had a lot of guys who you were shocked that were out there in a fourth quarter, which is how I felt about the Warriors tonight. Yeah, but again, it's because they're missing three of their... Look, this is what, 18 playoff games? Maybe it's 19 now. They've had their original starting group, if you're counting cousins, for one playoff game.

They've had one. So I've heard some of these Lakers comps, like if the Warriors thing was going to end and you're guilty of this, body language expert, that there are all these body language things... Oh, that's a fucking dig. It is. And I'm looking at you now.

I was looking at the box score. Oh, all right. Well, Livingston only played 17 minutes tonight. Like they had guys that you would have actually thought were guys you would have wanted out there that he just couldn't play. Cousins of Livingston. I mean, Livingston was somebody

that they made a pretty big free agent commitment to. Was that last summer or two summers ago? He was basically their P.J. Tucker kind of contract. And in this game where they needed him, I would say as much as they've probably ever needed him during this run. They really couldn't keep him on the court. The Cousins thing, I don't

totally blame him because I don't think he's healthy. But I don't know what else he was supposed to do, man. They had to play... They had to fill in... play they had to fill in like they still had to fill in the durant minutes you know where i'm going with this bob myers overrated oh see that's another thing let's do that no i'm kidding seriously because i've heard this is great no but this needs to be brought up because i've heard a bunch of people bring this up as if it's really insightful and be like man they've done a terrible job look at the bench

now look at it before okay so they went i did all the top minutes last year top minutes clay katie dre steph iggy this year it's katie clay steph dre cousins okay so then if you go iggy top seven guy both years top six guy they replaced what nick young with jerebko jerebko was terrible tonight by the way i still love him um zaza pachulia with cousins caspy played 14 minutes a game barely used in javel mcgee they used for nine minutes a game Drebko was terrible tonight, by the way. I still love him. Zaza Pachulia with Cousins. Caspi played 14 minutes a game, barely used. And JaVale McGee, they used for nine minutes a game. Had a nice little stretch there in the playoffs.

You could argue David West, but only 14 minutes a game. And now they have, they both had Cook. Damian Jones doesn't really count. This whole thing of like, because Nick Young, JaVale, and David West are gone, and now they have Cousins, Drebko, and Alphonso McKinney, it gets a fluke. We're talking about guys that are like eight, nine, and 10 in minutes. What about Livingston, though? He's still the same guy, but I keep hearing people say- Give him a two-year deal last year for 16.

I'm just wondering, how good do you think the Warriors are supposed to be with the money they give to Durant, Curry durant curry clay and draymond and it's as if like bob meyer screwed up the bench when if you really break it down body for body for all the top 12 minutes guys it's one of the most overblown things like what did people expect they think they were going to have like guys 11 and 12 be able to come in and play in an nba finals game and put up and give you like 15 points yeah I didn't see it. They didn't have anybody like, yeah, but Sally, no semi-ocial. I mean, I don't, I don't want to jump ahead to our free agency thing, but I think Sammy will be available.

I feel like you're arguing with me and I'm not arguing with you. This is like a conversation I've had with my wife where it's like, wait a second, can we go backwards? I apologize. My point is their team's not very good now it's not very good because three of their top six guys are going i know i can't say anything i can't add anything else to it my point is it's a top heavy team that was built never for this to happen this was like the worst case snare is like hey you know it would suck we're big we basically, hey, you know what would suck?

We basically have seven guys. You know what would suck? If we just lost three of them in the finals. That would be our D-Day. That would be like- But that's why I'm saying it's not a legitimate- I'm watching the Chernobyl miniseries and it's like Chernobyl, the 19 things happen.

It's like, you know what would really suck? If this nuclear reactor, if the water came in and it just blew up. That's our worst case scenario. How do you think that series is going over in Russia? They think they're not happy about it they're discrediting it do you imagine if russia came out with a 9-11 movie yeah that wouldn't go well well they think we'd sit there and be like i love how they cast i love it with these british accents yeah this is they nailed it um some people were saying in russia that that uh we glossed over the fact that there might have been a U.S. spy involved with making this happen.

I don't feel safe even commenting with pretensions being the way they are now. But my point is that it's not a fair criticism. It's not even a real criticism. Like, oh, they didn't prepare enough. What do you mean they didn't prepare enough? Like, what were you supposed to do when you have that much money tied up in all those other guys? You're currently going through an injury scenario that you would have never expected to happen it's kind of like a really good football team and then the local radio guy goes i hate our

backup qbs like well what did you think it's like when peyton manning when he went down i was like yeah they don't have a backup qb farm it's like yeah because if peyton manning went down their season's over which is my point with this warriors thing they were built for these guys to be healthy and if they weren't, I don't think they expected to win a title without three of their top seven. That's my point. There was no way to build this. We were like, hey, you know what we should have done? We should have also added three other awesome players that were just going to sign with us. I mean, that's why they signed Cousins, because it was something that was so absurdly cheap.

What if they got Brooke Lopez? Okay, so they should have had Brooke Lopez. Everybody should have had Brooke Lopez. Blog aggregator. That's a good blog post. Rosillo slams Bob Myers, said he should have gotten Lopez. There's a 50-50 chance that's going to happen. Wait a second.

We started talking about the Raptors. I'm going gonna see Bob Myers at Vegas League and he's like you fucking you motherfucker why'd you take shots at me

wait let's take a break because I want to talk about the Raptors hey if you're a movie and podcast fan like I am and like so many

people at The Ringer are check out The Ringer's new show The Rewatchables 1999 available only on Luminary

where we're dissecting some of our favorite movies from 1999 which was an all-time great year in film. It is a spinoff series from the Rewatchables podcast that a lot of people like actually. Dead Poets Society coming up on that one.

And on Rewatchables 1999 Office Space is happening this week, right Kyle? Yeah. Same categories that we do on the Rewatchables pod. We've done American Pie. We've done american pie we've done uh we've done cruel intentions we did god what was the one we did what else did we do we did uh austin powers last week austin powers too um it's a really good series the rewatchables is fun people like it luminary also has great podcasts like hannibal burris's handsome rambler

trevor knows let's talk this out they also have an awesome app that's free to download use it to People like it. Luminary also has great podcasts like Hannibal Buress' Handsome Rambler, Trevor Noah's Let's Talk This Out. They also have an awesome app that's free to download. Use it to listen to thousands of podcasts, including the ones you already love like this one. All enhanced by an easy-to-use interface with personalized content recommendations. If you love podcasts, check out Luminary. Get your first two months of access to Luminary's premium content for free when you sign up at luminary.link slash simmons after that 799 per month luminary.link slash simmons two months of free access cancel anytime terms do apply okay so the raptors are now we're at like the 50 minute mark of this podcast before we talk about the team that we've done we've already done no we're gonna stop talking

about how the warriors are built there because... I would say this is the most improbable title team since the 0-4 Pistons for me. I don't know if that would be for everybody, but the fact that this Kawhi trade worked out the way it did,

it now becomes one of the great basketball trades that we've had this century if they win the title. I think anytime somebody talks about hey let's let's just we're in a bar let's name some great trades if they won the title i think this would be like up there with the hardened trade and some of the other ones that get mentioned right even if he leaves it's an all-timer i mean it's even if he leaves he can leave this summer after the title and it's one of the 12 most important trades anybody's made because they won the title because of it.

I don't think they had any chance otherwise. The Gasol trade, which I think people were pretty back and forth on whether that was good. I just kind of like having him out here in these big games. I know he sucked in game two, but he was good tonight. Not all these guys get to be awesome every game. Getting

Danny Green thrown into the Kawhi trade, underrated, because he's been showing up. They paid Van Vliet, which was controversial. I think people were surprised by the number. I wasn't surprised because he killed the Celtics all the time. Then,

accepting that Ibaka and Lowry were sunk costs with the contracts they had. And just being like, well, they're overpaid, but we might as well keep them versus what we could get for them. All of these are really smart moves. It was a very well-constructed team. They also were fortunate. And look, I thought they were the best team in the East for most of the season. I could never get there.

I never gave up on them against Milwaukee. And it was tough to not give up on them because of how bad it looked. We've been over this stuff. But I cannot emphasize enough. Milwaukee was new. Philly still is kind of weird. And Boston was a mess.

So they didn't have that one imposing Eastern thing where they should have been afraid. They shouldn't have been afraid of any of those teams no and they obviously weren't i think they were probably the most afraid of philly would be my guess because it was so hard for them to score against them but what about the heat what about the 0506 heat team as being an unlikely champion if toronto pulls us off i would say no only because that was a really weird year for the league

where whoever the champion was, I think we would have thought it was weird, right? I just have never, my thing was always with them. They're probably like the worst modern day champ. I agree with that.

Going back to, you'd have to go back to probably that Seattle 78 team. But I think, I think it was just a talent drought for the league. You go through the teams that were in the mix there.

But as a team, and I'm putting you on the spot here so I don't... No, I remember. I'm good at this stuff. They win the title with that great comeback and also part of the way that Wade just lived at the free throw line in 06. They got swept the next year in four games against the Bulls. Well, Shaq got

old and I think they put on a lot of miles Antoine Walker they that team was kind of built to win in 05 or 06 it had to it was a little like what that Rockets team just what we saw with them shortened season though I thought the heat actually should have won in 05 for a third and minutes that year their top three minutes guys are Wade Haslam Jason Williams was third in minutes that year. Their top three minutes guys are Wade Haslam, Jason Williams, Eddie Jones. It was a weak year for the league. The Clippers could have made the finals that year. They really could have.

I was going to the games. I'm looking at- You were locked in that year. I'm looking at the Eastern Conference semis, 2004. Pistons beat the Nets four games to three. This is a beauty, this series. First game of this series, Detroit 78, New Jersey 56.

That was our final score. Are you kidding me? 90, Detroit wins. This is 04. Detroit wins the first two. They win the second game 95-80. Game three, 82-64, Nets win. They win 94-79.

Game five was the classic OT game, 127-120, where Scalbrini had his great moment. So the Nets are up 3-2. Detroit wins game six in New Jersey, 81-75, and they kill them in game seven, 90-69. They end up winning the title, but barely escaped in that series. And probably, I thought they were going to lose game six. I remember, I think I might even bet the Nets that

game and just being- 78-56. Yeah. But yeah, the Warriors couldn't compete back then. So, but my point is, they got over the hump where it actually should have gone sideways for them. And then that team really found itself the last couple of rounds, the Indiana series, then in the Lakers and the finals. And now we remember that Oh four Pistons team really fondly, especially how it ended.

And this Toronto run reminds me of that, where it was like, you know, they lose a playoff game to Orlando and it's like, Oh man, this fucking Raptors again. Then they get through Orlando. It's like,

well, Orlando sucks. Well, Philly's going to beat them. Get to Philly. Felt like Philly should have beat them. Some weird shit goes on and Bede no-shows a couple games. They blow a couple games. Still goes to a game seven. And we watched game seven together

and just couldn't believe Toronto was even in the game. Nobody could score other than Kawhi. And Baca had a couple shots. They barely escape. But now these last two rounds, I feel like they've really found themselves going back to game three of the Milwaukee series. Those four games, these three, this is a really good seven game stretch for them. Yeah. Look, you're not, this is not you having to convince me that they're good, but I still can't get past. but i'm talking about the stretch right uh

yeah this is the first time we've seen it from this group the first time this group has been together and you know some of this stuff i don't i don't really know what the answer is like think about cousins starting in game two if golden state loses game two cousins starting then everybody goes up car panicked he did this he did that it's like you can't change who you are and all this stuff you're like no he just wanted to try a different matchup he wanted to try to get Gasol off the floor Jordan Bell in game one it totally backfired so now he's going to match Gasol's size with Cousins in the first few four minutes of Cousins it looked like it was going to be a disaster again then Cousins had a really nice game too so to say now that Toronto has found its groove and the Milwaukee series is incredibly impressive and

you know I don't I don't like when people say oh they should be up 3-0 in this series because they they screwed up in game two one feels right two one feels right because you also now look if there's no clay tonight and Golden State's down 2-0 I don't know if they find a way to win this game because they're more motivated when they're down this many guys. I actually think we're looking at a sweep at that point. I think what you can say is that 2-1, yeah, feels right. Toronto's good. But if Clay played

tonight, they're down 2-1. The reason I brought up that 0-4 Pistons series was they split the first two and then that was it. The Pistons ran them out. That's different. I've heard some comparisons to the Lakers-Golden State, and this is back to like that. What's different, though? I don't think that the Warriors hate each other's guts

the way the Lakers do. No, I'm talking just from people think, oh, well, game four, Golden State's going to get it back. And that's how people felt. Game four of the Lakers-Pistons, which I think I wrote a column after that game. It was Shaq's last really great game. They're down 2-1.

They're in Detroit. The middle three games are in Detroit. So you don't want game five, then Detroit can clinch at home. You got to throw all the eggs in the basket for game four. And I think Shaq put up like a 38-20, something like that. And he was just great.

He was just like old school, awesome Shaq one last time. And Detroit still beat them. This game Friday night, unless, I mean, Klay doesn't just have to come back. He has to come back and get between 22 and 25, I think realistically, because I just think Toronto knows who they are now

and they know what the matchups are. We were watching the game today going, why take a pull-up three? You can get any shot you want. Any shot you want. Lowry would screw their offense up. It's like, just wait five seconds. You're going to get a layup or a five-footer.

What are you doing? I don't see how that changes in game four. I actually really think there's a chance. They'll have a second defender if Klay comes back and plays. I think Toronto would have to suck in game four to lose. I don't know how many more moves the warriors have you know they don't i mean they don't have anybody but like was it like quinn cook's gonna make eight threes so wait a minute are you picking golden state or toronto if clay's back and it's like feels like the right clay i'd need a lot

more info but i i told you what i did today me silent, Sal and House, we all bet on Toronto to win in five, 17 to one odds. Seemed like- Must be nice. You still have that kind of recreational cash. I was just throwing a little slider that way. But it was like, look, there's a pathway. Did you bet Toronto plus the five when we both thought Klay wasn't playing? I eventually did just because before the game, I tried to, in my head, try to figure out

how Golden State could get to 100 points and I couldn't figure out. Ironically, they got to 109. I just couldn't understand where the other 60 points were going to come from. Is there any way we can make it hotter and darker in this room? You don't like the heat? We can open that door. No, no, it's all right. It's all right. Wait, I got to ask you about the Kawhi thing because we were excited to talk about this. Will this now lead to desperation?

We shouldn't be doing this, but fuck it. It worked for Toronto and they won the title when they did this with Kawhi. So I'm going to just make this reckless, huge trade and give away a giant asset because this is how Torontoonto won the title is this going to be a new era of teams doing that yes and did okc start that era with paul george they make a trade where paul george basically said he was going to the lakers and then he doesn't

and they kept him i think if kawaii were to stay and there was a really interesting report that it could be a short deal that kawaii would stay we had awesome real estate speculation from two different people that he bought a place in toronto nothing makes me happier than reckless sports blog real estate speculation is my internet search sweet spot my favorite one ever and i've told the story once before was i'd have this routine where i would because it was by myself in Connecticut constantly. And I'd be like, all right, you've been in the house 40 straight nights. Get out and get a plate of pasta. And I went to this Italian place in West Hartford.

And I sit down at the bar and I'm eating, watching a game. They used to love having the Mets on in West Hartford. So it'd drive me nuts. And the owner comes over. He's like, hey, did you hear the news? I go, depends on what kind of news we're talking about. Peyton Manning just bought a house in West Hartford. I go, really?

They're like, yep. You got a gig at ESPN. I'm like, West Hartford. I go, okay, let's just say I don't know that Peyton Manning was gig at ESPN. I'm like, West Hartford. I go, okay, let's just say, I don't know that Peyton Manning was hired by ESPN. Cause it's definitely like,

well, I'll just, is looking at me right now. I didn't have that kind of juice. I wouldn't, I wouldn't always know that kind of stuff. And. You didn't even talk to him for the ESPN book.

Right. I'm going to be in the paperback. I think. Is that out yet? The third edition paperback. It's like, there'd be a couple paragraphs the you're gonna be in the hebrew edition it's after both of us die of heat stroke in this guest house it's gonna be it's gonna be in the usb book what if they came out with a third edition they were like with the rassillo chapter uh i was like i don't think

peyton manning bought a house in west harford man they're like yeah no he's he's doing it he's like he just bought a house right over there on old town road and i'm like i don't i'm like i don't like i don't think he did though because even if he got a gig and espana was doing the monday nighter we're talking wheels up we're talking he doesn't have to live here like he's not doing 2 p.m eastern nfl live raps he's not like peyton doesn't have to do those things he can call his shots and so to then buy a house in west hartford doesn't make a ton of sense had i tweeted out at that moment i would have been wrong now what does that mean for kawaii back to the original question if k Kawhi stays, then it will greatly impact the Anthony Davis market. I think it's already impacted.

Yeah, I think these businesses are very alike, whether it's sports or other things. Wait, here's an opportunity to talk about the Celtics. Are they doing this? I actually don't think the Celtics are in this mode right now where they could just kind of say, fuck it, and try to get Davis and hope that in the East, ifawaii leaves the raptors if i were the Celtics i wouldn't do it because he's a clutch client and clutch is never going to help out the Celtics

they're just not and if i'm ange and i'm kairi's gone and then i'm going to do this for davis and by the way, like the Ainge stuff today with Kyrie. Do you want to, uh, you want me to play that now? Yeah. I'm going to try to find that. Go do your rant on this and I'll find the clip. No, but I just think businesses are very, very predictable that way. They're like, wait a minute. They have a weather person on their pro, you know, their, their football pregame show. We need to do that. Okay. Wait a minute. Somebody has a ref in the booth. All right, well let's get our ref in the booth and i'm not saying anything things are wrong but like businesses do this all the time and i don't think the nba although a different model and a different

model for success and the transactions are far harder to pull off you can't just do whatever you want i do think other owners and other front offices would be able to especially the the gm who might be getting fired in a year can go to his owner and say, hey, no one thought Paul George was going to stay. No one thought Kawhi was going to stay. Let's put a package together for Davis. But look at the reasoning behind those two trades, right? The Paul George thing is just like Durant left.

We're also afraid Westbrook might leave. And by the way, Oladipo's contract at that point was thought to be a bad contract. Yeah. So they were like, dude, we're off this thing. Yeah. It's like, let's take a flyer. What's the worst thing that could happen?

He leaves and we just start over. And Kawhi, the Kawhi thing, same thing. They had maxed out the team they had. Let's take a flyer with Kawhi. We get off the Rosen's contract. Get Danny Green back too. Why not? Doesn't work out.

Blow it up next year. Here's that Danny Inch quote. I don't even know what deal you're talking about. Somebody asked him about uh somebody asked him do you regret the cut this is like when i screwed up throwing a sound on the radio show like no no play the cut i don't want to know what deal you're talking about yeah so like just in general i understand but like it depends there's there's always risk in making deals and uh so we're not afraid of risk.

We made a risk by trading for Kyrie. And no matter what happens with Kyrie, I'll never regret that. Just move on to the next deal. That's like, Ryan, your girlfriend that you met when you're on that trip. Wait a minute, have you been talking to her? No, no. Ryan, you met that girl in the Bahamas and that trip have you been talking to her no no ryan you met that girl in the bahamas and all your friends said not to date her and you did and you went

nine months and now you went home today and all her stuff was gone and she stole twenty thousand dollars from you yeah um do you regret dating her well you know there's risk every time like that he's basically past tense with that i thought kawaii i thought kairi was gone anyway but that interview i'm like oh he's they've moved on they're already like you know it's he's in the rearview mirror i talked to one guy who was the same guy that told me durant was going to the warriors in january of that year yeah and you know we all have a couple guys that like we really trust with steven a smith these no it was steven a doesn't careful no he don't call you no no no no no it wasn't

steven a doesn't think about how can i involve ryan in this story and it's probably a fair that's fair you know we we have our sources right so the same guy said don't fall for it with this kairi stuff don't fall for it all year long because he's not coming back he's not coming back he's not coming back he's not coming back and when everybody thought he was coming back the same guy was like he's not he's like i'm telling you right now he's not so i think kairi and just looking at his Instagram posts that would make 311 jealous that Kyrie just knew, let me just play it this way. And either he convinced Boston he was coming back or Boston's game plan as a front office was that everybody they talked to just positive, positive, positive. Kyrie's coming back. Kyrie's coming back. It's a certainty. It's a lock. It's the whole thing. I don't think Kyrie had any intention of sticking sticking around and i think it goes back to last year in the playoffs and not showing up i think it's you mean when he didn't show up for a game seven because he was on an uncle drew publicity tour yeah i think all this stuff is connected and he's the leader of the team whether boston knew it and played it a certain way or kairi played them and that's fine because what they gave up asset wise it was a great risk I support it

and good luck in Brooklyn good luck to the Nets fans can I ask you a question? I'm actually really going to enjoy where he goes next and how it unfolds over the next couple years because we just watched it and for me it's like when

Stephon Marbury got traded to the Knicks and it should have been a red flag that the Suns were like hey And for me, it's like when Stefan Marbury got traded to the Knicks. And it should have been a red flag that the Suns were like, hey, any interest in Stefan Marbury? That's red flag number one. Red flag number two, huge contract. Red flag number three, unclear if he could be the guy. Goes to the Knicks.

All the Knicks fans are excited within a year. They're miserable. And by the way, we're going to have to credential 30 people a game for him. Like, who's this guy? I just think we saw it with Kyrie and there's nothing you can say about the situation that defends how it played out. He was innocent. He wanted to be on the best team. He wanted a team that had a bunch of assets. He wanted to be the guy. He wanted to be the leader. He wanted to be on the cover of the program, all that stuff. And he had all of it. He didn't want to be in LeBron's shadow anymore. And they made the team worse.

The team was worse and he was all over the map. And then we got to the playoffs and he sucked. And he didn't seem like he gave a shit. Look what we watched today with Steph Curry diving on the floor in this game. He's down 14 in game three with two minutes left.

He's flying around. Kyrie didn't give a shit. And I just don't want to watch him on my team anymore. I'm in turn 50 this year. I don't know how many years I have left, Ryan. Time to deal with Kyrie Irving. Now, one thing about the team doing worse. I mean, yes, they didn't get to game seven of the Eastern Conference Finals, but it's

unfair to compare the East this year with what the East was last year. East is much better. But that sounds like i'm defending kairi i'm not i can't wait for all the blogs in boston that would tweet at me all the people that cover the team that were captain kairi and no you don't get it you don't get it you're gonna get every one of you guys what don't we get we get it better than they do and every one of those fucking guys are going to turn on kairi in a most magical way ever i can't wait to read the anti-kairi boston content from all the people that didn't want to write it and kept pretending because look he's on your favorite team you think it's going to work you keep lying to yourself about it and the big bad national guy who doesn't buy into it like

i ended up being right about it and it being right about it all year i never put that team in that group of those other teams but if i ask you this if you're the next but you can we i say one thing on that before you know you're not just one little piece if you're a boston fan you have a legacy of the local media causing a lot of shit between how fans feel about players and sometimes that not being genuine and then starting shit just to start shit and get people to talk about have stuff talk about on drive time show or local news you know some front page of the paper whatever it's just a 40-year history of it so in this case it was actually justified because 40 go back to the ted williams stuff that lee wrote i mean it's it's it's a whenever i go back and like read the

ted williams stuff or babe roof stuff and i've read both montville's books on it it's, it's, it's a, whenever I go back and like read the Ted Williams stuff or Babe Ruth stuff, and I've read both Montville's books on it, it's mind blowing how similar the coverage is. It's like, is Ted Williams a winner? Is he really clutch? Is he really a team guy? Can he build your team around him? It's you think it's, you're reading stuff going, wait a minute, you guys did this in the forties.

What about me? We did it 10 years ago with Manny Ramirez and he became the most polarizing athlete the city had for five, six years there. I just think. He was like Puig before Puig. In this case. Except just better. In this case, forget the baggage. Go by the results.

And go by the fact that the guy didn't really care if he was on the team or not. And he was up and down depending on the week. And I think when he leaves probably 48 hours will pass and there'll be some massive feature about actually here are the 25 things that we weren't able to write until he left that's gonna happen oh it's gonna be on i mean big time i don't know you know we'll woge get it or whatever because like remember when lebron left cleveland i bet it's jackie mack yeah maybe she's pretty wired yeah she's wired in i could see that happen it's going to be all right so we already understand those things but he's going to go to brooklyn and they're going to go 12 and 2

to start the year and everybody's gonna be like kairi was boston's fault and the same thing's gonna happen again because you are who you are here's what i do want to ask you though because sometimes i force myself to be like okay wait a minute i know what my quick like immediate answer would be where you go okay well how much better is kairi than d'angelo russell and the first thing you go like oh my god what is what a stupid question and then you like let it sink in a little bit and you go first of all those two in the same backcourt would i actually think be a terrible fit um it's that sounds awful. Why would you do that? Now, that means that Russell's out. And who are they guarding? Russell's out. Nobody.

Maybe Quinn Cook. But- See, I think from a Brooklyn standpoint- You know what I'm saying? But I get it from Brooklyn's standpoint. They've never had a real star. That's the answer. He's somebody that's super internet friendly.

He's an amazing player to watch. I will totally defend the day in, day out Kyrie viewing experience. He's incredible. I've never seen a player like him in my life. Darius Garland? Well, until Darius Garland really takes off. It's just like, you know how it's going to end. And I don't think somebody becomes, I don't know,

somebody who figures out how to connect with teammates as a superstar as they hit their late 20s. At this point, you kind of know what you are as a basketball player. He's been in the league since when? 2011? We've had a whole decade of him. What's going to be different? What's he going to mature into?

Like we saw somebody like Rasheed Wallace, who I think was a pretty volatile player in Portland. No, and he went to Detroit and was able to kind of fit into the framework of that team and was like a beloved teammate and a great guy. And like, that's somebody who matured a little bit later. The difference with Kyrie is he wants to also be the guy. When you're the guy, you have to look out for your teammates and kind of give a shit about the framework of a team. And you can't like throw people under the bus

and press conferences and be super moody one day and happy the other day and just be all over the map. Yeah, like I think it's not gonna work. I think about Kyrie and I go like, do you think there's ever a day where he wakes up going, you know what, I need to fix some things for me to really be the guy that I wanna be. And I don't think he does.

I think he does the kind of enlightened, like, oh, people don't get it. People don't get it. Yeah. Like, I remember one time I talked to somebody, I was like, yeah, Get Out was pretty good. Like, what? Pretty good?

Like, pretty good? I was like, yeah, it was interesting. I don't think I'd watch it again. You don't get it. You didn't get it. You clearly didn't get it. Wait a minute. Yeah, I think I got it.

I think Kyrie's the guy that's like, nah, you don't get it. You don't get it you clearly didn't wait a minute yeah i think i got it i don't i think kairi's the guy that's like yeah you don't get it you don't get it and you're like no i think i get it i watched it all season long i actually think his destiny he should just somebody had a reader suggest this with kawaii this is from jason in athens greece how about that one of our one of our best greek readers he said what if kwhi wins, bolts for another team on a one-year deal, takes them over the hump, and this is just what his career is now. He's a mercenary who signs one-year deals from team to team. I am ready for Kawhi to become the NBA's equivalent of John Wick. Emotionless, ice cold, strictly business, NBA rings, no jersey requirements, no farewell tours. I kind of like that, but that actually makes more sense

for Kyrie with me, which is one-year contracts. All right, here's my next team. It's great honeymoon period, right? Remember that honeymoon period with the Celts that went 16 straight? I was like, I fucking love this guy. I can't believe Cleveland traded him. This is crazy.

I've never had more fun watching the Celtics play card. LeBron must be really difficult. Oh my God, what were they thinking? Yeah just and then he leaves and it's perfect it's like he dates a team's fan base for nine months and then it's like thanks man and then he leaves and he actually sounds like me it's like we're gonna go a couple good trips yeah you know it's gonna be fun i'm gonna pay for somewhere tropical i'm not clinging to money like there's there's actually some cool access to shit that you're not gonna get with get with regular guys chris long but like don't yeah maybe chris long i'll stop by put like one of the part of my take guys on the phone for like three minutes yeah we

facetime with one of them and it's going to be fun i live right near the beach have a nice car we've got you know i have friends all nine months later new team but i'm going to be a little difficult and i'm a little stuck in my ways. Right. I got my writing. A lot of the stuff that I'm doing is because I don't want anyone to tell me that I can't do it. I forget. There was one thing, though, that you said. Well, the reason that email doesn't make any sense is both those guys have... Kawhi has a fake injury history.

Kyrie has a real injury history. He was writing about Kawhi. I was saying instead of kawaii kairi should be the guy who just does one year contracts but he has because he's gonna wear it as welcome in year two you might as well just enjoy the year one but anybody that signs him i totally like as much as we've just spent time talking about how much fun it isn't and it's fine like it's jeff green times 100 every new fan base would try to tell me like you don't get it like okay fine got it if i'm broken though i would i would actually probably look smart me gm me is like i would rather russell

is younger i think he has a higher ceiling i think there's a higher ceiling than kairi no higher ceiling just to get better than kairi is what he is right i don't know if i don't know if kairi is going to be better than we've seen the last two years right russell might actually be better i don't know where he ends up as a player. This is a really good year for Russell, but you have more bad years. Like Kyrie steadily been better. I mean,

I don't think we should care. Is Kyrie going to be statistically better than he was this year at any point in his career? That's the funniest thing about the whole thing is when you look at his numbers and you go, wait a minute, he just had that year and you guys are bummed out about him. And that's what,

that's what will happen. The Brooklyn fan that hasn't watched him the brooklyn media that hasn't watched him as much will go oh my god this guy's numbers but he's a star like they've never had a star so you put him in and it's like this is fucking cool kairi irving's on our team the nets are real he'll come out he'll average 30 a game in november and they'll be like this is the best this guy's awesome he's weird has weird press conferences in a Brooklyn. Perfect. He's quirky. Get to,

yeah. The big feature about, Oh yeah, he's, he has a place in Williamsburg, but he might move to Dumbo. He liked Dumbo a little bit more. Do that whole thing.

And he'll, they'll have a great year with them, but good luck in your four printed suits. I think I can't talk about Kyrie anymore. I'm out. No, I have one more thing for you. Very quick.

No, I'm not going to listen. My dream scenario is he actually reunites with LeBron. That's not impossible. I would just, just please, if that would be my non-Boston wish for the summer, it's like, please, I hope he goes to the Lakers. I would just enjoy that so much, him and LeBron together again. It would be like when Richardard burton got remarried

to elizabeth taylor remember that no okay i'll try to come up with a better one it would be like evangelina got back together with brad pitt now i think brad can do that i got back together with j-lo i mean imagine if you were dating somebody who brought cats home all the time and then you crank it up another level. Chickens? People. You know? Christmas breath. Let's take one more break. What's your name? Hey, let's talk about jeans. I wear jeans a lot, especially this winter in LA when we never had good weather.

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Wilds, you'll like this half-baked idea. Retro flopping. Yeah, Wilds, come on in for five minutes. Kevin Wilds, we might do a half baked podcast tomorrow. Russell, don't zone out. Don't go on your phone. So there's

a retro flopping committee and when somebody hits a three and kicks their legs out and goes flying, there's a committee that looks at that the next day. If they discern it's a flop, it's a flop point.

It gets to 16 flop points, you're suspended for a game. Basically, there's a risk now for you to be a jackass and try to draw a foul in a European soccer way, basically. Does the ref have to call it?

No, it's adjudicated the next day. The flopping committee weighs in and be like, we reviewed the tape. There were three flops. Jermon Green has two flop points and Kyle Lowry has one flop point. Is this NBA officials making the call or is this just you? It's Secaucus. I like when they have to go in secaucus i like when they have to go to secaucus for stuff i'm all i don't see any downside of this give them my riscilla i love it i absolutely i think you should be banned from the league for a month

if you get to like 15 flop points make it it really count. I mean, they did do this with flopping where they find guys after the fact. I think I just feel more bad for Wilds that he decided to sit in this sauna and watch a podcast and not talk. Like there's no way he still wants to be here. No, I know why. I was going to have to listen to it. So I'm saving time.

I know, I know Wilds and I know what he's doing. The whole time he's sitting there trying to figure out what the digital TV angle is of us sitting in a couch and just sweating our balls off and talking about basketball at 10 at night better lighting all you need was a title it would be like sauna time with Bill and Rye

we're just in towels I always feel like Wilds is going was Rosillo a one and we didn't know it but he's always feel like wilds is going was riscilla one and we didn't know it but she's a one like or is this like you know what i think he i think he was a two he was always a two he wanted to be a one i always feel like i let wilds down because wilds was like one of the only people creatively like i could vibe with and then we had a stretch he's like all right let's do it let's start taping stuff and i would start telling my ideas and then i'd be like okay this this radio show though every day and it's really hard for me to break away and then i i think we

agreed to do something it was right around the draft and i was like i blew it off and then i let wilds down and it's never been the same you're true yeah not true no is that true at all not true no that's why i'm here yeah am i being evaluated right now is this like the combine here's your mistake with the radio show oh let me grab a pen no no i think tuesdays and thursdays you should have just done what francesca does now and just be like all day you're not planning anything for the show you're just taking calls coming back we're gonna take some more calls and it's three hours so you're basically you just show up what time did the show start one eastern thanks for listening i'm just kidding i know so you show up for at 12 57 some people do the job that way that i couldn't

i could never do it but this is my point tuesday thursday less, Thursday. Less prepped ride. 12.57. Calls. Taking your calls. Out at 401. There's a couple managers that actually would have loved it had I done that. But I just always would say, how many times have you been in the car where you go, Dave and Tampa? What a great fucking point. Is it less than 1% of the time?

Kyle and Poughkeepsie. Hey. Does Wilds want the mic back now? I forget. No? No. All right. All right. Next topic. one percent of the time kyle and poughkeepsie hey does wilds want the mic back now i forget no no um all right next topic social media interaction chasing okay so i've been thinking about the jerkiest way to tweet this yeah because what's happened is is you know guys are trying to get impressions and they're doing this thing where they're asking questions and it's like comment below if you could have any superpower and then like if a couple people pick up on it then it just blows up and the guy's like oh my god you know

here's my bio um here's my soundcloud what's your favorite true crime podcast then you get like 230 replies like whoa look at those replies or they want to be like comment below with help in the industry and it's like now you actually are looking for a job and now everybody's looking at this thing and you're like oh my god this thing blew up so i was trying to find a way to write one where it was like hey what question can i ask twitter where i don't care about the answer but just hope to crank the interactions and then just post that then the questions would be the interactions and then just post that and then the questions would be the interactions yeah i think you should do that tomorrow so people hear the podcast and it's that joke yeah because like some of the stuff from rappers in the morning they get 30 000 retweets like

another day blessed fam smoke up who the fuck retweets that who goes he's right there you've never seen it he's right there he's 100 retweeted. You've never seen it. He's right there. I got a job now. He's 100% retweeted that. I've never seen it. Cause it, man. I deleted them all. DJ Khaled really had some good wisdom this morning. I mean, it's all the same stuff. Like, it's all the same stuff.

And I'll just go like, man, being a rapper is way easier on Twitter than other people. Like, you'll have a little draft nugget. Coming up next. Why being have a little draft nugget. Coming up next, why being a rapper is easier on Twitter. So yeah, the new one is what advice would you give yourself

or what kind of- 20 years ago. Yeah, what is this, a player tribune month? I don't know. Yeah, so I don't know. Maybe I'll do it tomorrow. Maybe I'll do it tomorrow

so people will get the joke because that whole thing is you don't care about the answers. You're only hoping to get thousands of interactions. You don't care about what anybody has to say. You're either trying to get your profile out there as much as you possibly can. So now everybody's doing it. And it's just something I've noticed. What would you tell 2002 you to keep yourself encouraged? 2002 was the worst year of my life.

Was it really? Yeah. I mean, it's like no question. It's a one seed and I don't even know who else fills out the bracket. 2002 was the worst year? Easily. I mean, it's not, I can't even put another year in the running 2002 was so bad really tell us more uh i was working minor league baseball i wasn't making

any money they told me i was gonna make like 30 grand i made 12 uh my girlfriend dumped me i proposed to her at her elementary school in front of kids looking through the window. She said no. So then I had to go back to work. Then they were going to take me off the air because they said I sucked at calling the games. And I was like, yeah, I told you I sucked because it didn't make any sense. You were going to put me on the fucking air in the first place. And they're like, yeah, well, look, we're just going to take you off the air and then slowly train you, bring you back.

I was like, you're never going to put me back on the air and i'm making 12 grand living in fucking trenton i'm out of here so i left and then i went home and worked for my father's construction company for basically to pay for my room and board because i didn't have any money and then the girlfriend started dating one of my buddies and i was banned from all the weddings because everybody thought i was going gonna beat dudes up so i got oh two was rough yeah uh thanks to explosions in the sky for the soundtrack for that oh two tough year i dropped to like 178 couldn't eat 178 i got really i got really i also couldn't afford food and then my cable got shut off,

and I used to put in VHS tapes to watch The Wedding Singer while I ate a sub because I didn't have TV. Kyle loves this. This could be the pod every time now. O2 was rough. We should spin this off into a podcast called No Threat. You know, no, I was zero threat. The worst year of your life. The only threat i was

to myself again the thing is you look back on it and you go you were 26 you were living on martha's vineyard in the summer and yeah you're working construction and you felt like a loser and you were bummed out about the girl thing but like you were you were seconds away from vineyard nightlife and you just mailed it in like you didn't even give it a shot right like i just sat and played madden and bet on games and then i was still living there in the fall and it wasn't it wasn't winterized so that was awesome um but there was one other like remember ben stiller meet the parents the first one where he has like the kids holding up the will you marry me sign yeah and it's about to go down and it's gonna work but then she says oh my sister's getting engaged mine was the opposite

like it was like kids were holding up signs that said, she's going to say no, and she's already dating one of your friends. Makes me stronger though. Iron sharpens iron. A couple of mailbag questions for you. Chris from Chicago wants to know if we've thought of the new Space Jam movie, how LeBron's had trouble finding NBA players to be in it. Have they thought about using CGI to do multiple LeBrons instead of LeBron and other teammates? And then eventually LeBron summons the power to create five of himself on the court together for the fourth quarter with the Looney Tunes cheering him on from the bench. And he adds, I would love to see what five LeBrons would do on the court together,

especially if he wrote and directed the basketball scenes himself. Kind of an interesting Space Jam subplot there. Five LeBrons. Is he having a harder time getting a Lakers teammate or a Space Jam teammate? I think it's equal. Is that an A or the Bs? I'm so glad we made it this long without talking about the Lakers. If we were on ESPN, they would have looked at our rundown and been like,

this all looks great, guys, but can you do the Lakers at the top? Why are you doing any Raptors? What do you think Magic's endgame was there? Which part? We haven't talked since he went on with the Stephen A. Wilbon show after the Baxter home story came out and paid credit to the reporting, but then said none of it was true. That didn't feel like they were paying a ton of credit to the reporting when I watched that show. Because I always feel like if the reporting was good, then the story should be true.

I don't know. What do you want me to ask you here? Because I feel like you want to go a certain... I thought it was weird that ESPN had that story and then also discredited it on their television network. I thought it was weird. If I had written this story and then that had happened, I would have been upset

yeah i think not as upset as you not getting invited to the uh the media basketball game yesterday but well they didn't have enough money under the salary cap apparently so uh i if i were baxter holmes i would have been upset straight up um but i do think that some of the magic stuff has been unfair for magic in that like again what did you guys think he was going to do in this position when he owns part of the dodgers when he's got all these other things going on he was not going to be this guy that was grinding now look if you're not the grinder and then you're showing up and you're getting upset at employees there's going to be, especially when the team is losing and especially when they're underperforming. But Magic, we all know what he was brought in to do.

Close the big deals, be the face, be the rock star. And so is it fair to call him lazy when I don't think anybody expected the job description for him to be what it would be for another team president? So maybe that's his fault, maybe that's Jeannie's fault, maybe that's the whole thing, but I just felt a little uncomfortable watching it. There's some tough clips from when he took the job where they're asking if he had the time to commit to it 100%.

And he was like, 150%. I'm all in. So he brought some of that on himself. Yeah, but what's he going to say? Hey, actually, they looking like for 12 hours a week out of me and you know i'm just hearing name only right like that was that was like in the game tonight mark jackson goes i got a chance to talk to danny green's father and he's so proud of his son and he has come a long way never given up and i was like imagine if he was like i talked to his

dad and he is like danny is a bit of a shithead and has not helped out enough at home and actually had to go on SeatGeek to get these tickets. He said to send that message to Danny because he doesn't return his text. Owen from Brooklyn wants to know what player players will never have a better season than the one they just had. In other words, who peaked in 2018-19? I thought that was a good question. I can't imagine Harden.

I'm going to say Damian Lillard. I don't think Damian Lillard and Harden were the two I had in my head. I can't see them getting better. Yeah, Steph could play a more complete season. We've also seen him have a better season than this, so that doesn't count. Giannis? Durant had an insane season that nobody you know just got lost in the newness and the absurdity of other people's seasons i actually

yannis can have a better season i think durant could have a better season if he went to the knicks and was trying just 33 and nine every game or something playing like stretch five center that'd be good i actually did have a good lakers tidbit though yeah that we didn't we didn't get to we were too busy rehashing all the old magic stuff but i would not put i would not it felt like a shot we just hadn't talked about it no i would not put a nail in the anthony davis to lakers coffin me neither There's some stuff like if the Celtics are out on this thing, which I think they should be. It looks like they're out.

I think they should be out. So they're out. Let's say with the Knicks do three knocks, all these different pieces for Davis, maybe, but that's contingent on what they think is happening with Durant, what they think is happening with Kyrie. So let's say maybe the Knicks aren't as involved.

I think the Knicks and the Nets still have to be mentioned. I'm not saying they're out, but I'm just trying to look at the landscape of this whole thing where what if the Lakers are giving you four, saying take two of these players. I heard a rumor about Lonzo potentially being moved for another pick. So say now you're going to New Orleans going, you can have a four. Did you hear the Lonzo for the six pick?

Something with that, with Phoenix? I've heard that. I've heard the seventh pick with the Bulls. So say they were able to grab four and six, four and seven. Would you do that? If you were Phoenix, would you trade the six for Lonzo? Because I think I would. I think he's better than anybody I could get with the six pick.

This draft really scares me after four. I also really like Lonzo. Yeah, I think Lonzo right now is like, whatever his stock price is, you're going, this is ridiculous. It needs to be higher. Even if you don't like him, his stock price is too low. With that said, I was driving to work yesterday and I put on Coward and he was interviewing LeVar Ball. He can't wait to get back in the game. And LeVar was basically like, nobody told me to be quiet. Because Coward's like, did Magic tell you not to tweet?

And he's like, nobody would ever tell me to do that. So you just stopped? And he's like, my goal has been what it always was to have three sons playing in the NBA. When he starts talking about the Lakers should have found a way to get his kid a spot in the summer league roster, there's other stuff LeVar's done where he loses me,

but I was like, come on, dude. Well, Coward had a great moment. Coward's like buddies with him, it seems like. Coward plays a really good way of keeping him in the mix. Yeah, he made it seem like they're on the same team. And LeVar doesn't hate him. So he was like, I mean, LeVar, people don't realize. Cowherds will win.

He was like, Cowherds will win. He was like, you were telling us this stuff last year, and you were right. He's like, you told us about Luke Walton? You told us, he did that thing. You told us about Luke Walton? That's not fair. What was the other thing he said?

You told us about... He said he should have never traded for Muscala. No, he had two things. Oh, no, he said, you told us about Luke Walton. You told us that there was trouble in the front office with Rob Polenka. And you were right. And LeVar, I swear to God, LeVar, he had one of those. I mean, that's why I said it.

He was taking credit for it. It was great. And Karen knew what he was doing. He just completely manipulated it. It was hilarious. There's no one in the business. And it's unbelievable that I don't think enough people pick up on this, where Cowherd can ask a question and get the person to answer it in a way that backs whatever Cowherd's

angle is on a story. Yeah. It was great. Yeah. So he seemed, it seems like he was ready to start spreading his wings again. And that might be another reason to trade him, to trade Lonzo. Because LaVar was basically like, I was really busy this year, we had our Facebook show,

but you're going to be hearing more of me now. About the Lakers, I'm like, oh no. We got to make a move. I'm telling you, I talked to somebody who's, I don't know, who cares, with the Lakers. And I went, hey, is it a little overblown? Like, is it not that bad? And they're like, no, it's that bad bad. Like it sucks. It's a bummer. It's a bummer to have

to deal with this all the time. And he didn't talk as much. And I know his excuses. I was overseas. I was with those kids. He didn't, he didn't talk as much. And I don't think there'd ever be a coach where LeVar would say like, you can sit there and say he was right about Luke Walton. There could have been 20 other guys being the head coach of that team that he was going to sit and say was stupid and didn't know how to use his son the right way that would be my guess i heard adam is like ad on a scale of one to ten is like a 9.8 about this lakers thing what a disaster this is like he's just really upset and it's a huge focus for him right now levine adam levine no silver oh that makes way more sense yeah because that levine guy just quit

that america's got talent you know they changed the rules on him he had to do what he had to do imagine walk away for your principles you think you'll ever walk away from 30 million over two no it was it was 26 a year god those network shows are unbelievable yeah it's really great the thing i learned though i'm not network tv you're too wait so lonzo for the six to phoenix and then they take four and six and go to new orleans they trump everybody that's what i'm saying so you know whatever the benson rumor is whatever the animosity uh about the Lakers and all this dealings, and, you know, I'd heard stuff where it's like Griff's, you know, Griff hasn't said it to me. I don't talk to him that way.

And by the way, even if I were really tight with Griff, it's not like he'd be like, hey, Rosillo, I just want to tell you exactly what I will and won't do. I mean, GMs don't do that. They don't do that stuff. As much as you can try to talk to guys and get to learn about what's going on but i i wanted to make that point tonight because i'd heard it's kind of one of those combine leftovers as it builds up a little bit more like you don't when you walk around the combine it's not like guys like pull you aside deep throat and go here's what the knicks are

gonna do and here's what it doesn't really happen that way but after that you start making the rounds it's when you're when you're in a vicinity of just a lot of people who know pieces of things or full things, the finals is the greatest example of this. Like you taught, you walk around the court in the finals, the two hours for the finals, and you're just going to hear stuff. And like last year at the finals, it was like, yeah, LeBron's going Lakers, but what are we talking about? But the finals before that that's when it started. That was the first time. That was when KOC and I did the pot about it because it was like kind of floating around

that he was like, he's out after this year no matter what happens. I think the Knicks are still involved. And though- I'm not, I hope- Did I come off as if I'm dismissing- I'm just saying like this Lakers thing, we need to not-

No, I have a Knicks point. We can't make the Lakers thing dead is my only point. There you go. So let's say the Knicks get KD, Kemba, and then trade everything else for Davis. That's their intent. Now, if I'm clutch, I have ties to LeBron James. I still want what's best for him.

And I want the Lakers to get LeBron James, which is why I did all that stuff in February. Do I want to send Davis to the Knicks? Or would I kind of pee on it a little bit? I think a good example of this is Paul George's agent really did not like the Lakers. And we have heard this too many times.

I feel comfortable reporting it. Or not reporting it. I'm just passing along what both of us have heard this too many times. I feel comfortable reporting it or not reporting it. I'm just passing along what both of us have heard from nine different people. He really, really affected Paul George's decision just not to pursue the Lakers at all.

Now, whether he was going to go with OKC anyway, but it got to the point where he didn't even entertain a meeting with the Lakers. And I think the agent was a big part of it. Could Clutch have that kind of influence over Davis and the Knicks if the

Knicks had the most to offer new Orleans? It's an interesting question with some of the other shit we've seen clutch do. It's it's, they would definitely never say, they wouldn't say it off the record, you know, off the record to be like,

Hey, we want what's best for Anthony Davis. And you go, yeah, but you know, what's going to suck is if nobody goes and plays with LeBon james so i mean they can't they can say whatever they want company line wise but they can't be kidding themselves with that one the mince thing was very real we've talked about it a bunch of times going back to like when palenka and those guys

were in college yeah and i've heard it too many times now and i've met mince i don't know him i don't talk to him i like him it also explains the julius randall part of the whole thing and the d'angelo russell thing yeah and then when palenka's like the heath ledger dark knight thing where you go maybe that would be weird to work with a guy like that um like what if i started on the podcast be like that reminds me of a time in malaysia and then you're like, Rasul never went to Malaysia. We were filming Hangover 3. Like, the thing about Malaysia, guys,

is you don't tip. I was there when the plane crashed. And I brought that with me everywhere I go. Would that be enough for the Knicks to be scared off? As much power as these agents can have and manipulate things and move pieces around if the deal like look kairi didn't want to go to boston and i don't want to talk about kairi here again but he had four teams boston wasn't one of them he didn't want to go to denver right denver was the one that was in early and i think he squashed that one

and i think he okayed the boston thing yeah i I think the thing with LeBron, I keep coming back to. So his son is going to Sierra Canyon next year. His son who now has 2 million Instagram followers. And he's playing with Dwayne Wade's son at this basketball powerhouse in Sierra Canyon. I do feel like LeBron's at this stage of his life, which mirrors a little bit the stage I'm in, where it's like the number one thing I want to do is just watch my kid play sports. I just enjoy that the most. I wonder what kind of focus, the focus that he needed to be the second best player of all time and all the shit he did this decade. As your kids get older and you want to be a part of their life and his son's going to

be this really good basketball player, it seems like. if there's no roadmap for the Lakers to be really good, is LeBron okay with it? Be like, you know what? So we'll go 48 and 34, 50 and 32. I'll break every record in the book. I've won a couple of titles. I was in eight straight finals. I'll do my best, but I don't feel like this is like life or death. We have to get somebody. I'll have a great life. This would be great. I'll take it seriously and I'll get to go to all my kids' games. Do you think there's like two, is that, could that be 2% true? Two seems like you just want me to say yes. No, 2% true. I have to like 2% probably probably but I feel like the basketball world is like collectively

hung him up here for LeBron a little bit earlier than he wants like I don't think he moved out here to get his ass kicked every year

I just don't but I don't think he would have gotten his ass kicked this year I think if he hadn't gotten hurt that was probably like a 4 seed

or a 5 seed right they would have made the playoffs I don't think they were a 4 seed I'm saying like he won the title in Cleveland

he's won 3 rings he's the second best player ever i think he has four or five mvps he's gonna break every record we have like at what point are you just like this is a great life i'm gonna make 35 million a year our team will be good we'll be a playoff contender but it's not gonna like ruin my life if we don't get anthony davis i just would have to be after going to ruin my life if we don't get Anthony Davis. I just would have to be after going to eight straight finals, and maybe this is me as the non-parent here, but if I'm LeBron James, I think it's a little different than you going to watch your kids versus LeBron being like, I'm still trying to win here with the Lakers.

No offense to your kids. I'm not saying he's not going to try less, give a shit less, whatever. I'm asking about the urgency to contend for titles. At some point, do you just be like, eh, this has been a great life? Malone and Stockton were like this, right? Where both of them, neither of them won a title. And that thing petered out. Malone actually jumped at the chance to go to the Lakers and try

to win a title and John Stockton was like I'm good I have a great life I'm not going to chase the title I'm fine with where I am I want to retire here I like my life like if LeBron did that I wouldn't hold that against him I'm not saying you're wrong it just it's his 18th NBA season feels early now like i looked up the 18th year i looked up the kobe thing and i'll never forget that feeling and i got a lot of pushback on this and i still think i'm right but in that third to last season when he got hurt he played six games he came back yeah he played his ass off they won 21 games and then 17 games in his last two seasons did Did it matter? And I thought you could notice,

you could noticeably see a thing with him where it was almost like this waiting to exhale great movie where he could just go, I don't have any pressure on me anymore. Like we're not good. We get our asses kicked all the time. And for all the mama mentality and all this stuff,

like I can actually, I don't have that pressure on me anymore because i know we don't have any chance and i think there was almost this acceptance with him where it became a little easier for him to process that sounds like what you're saying about lebron so we have the example of kobe i'm telling you you might be right but i'm hearing it so much that's kind of counter to everything that clutch wants to do here like they're putting on a massive facade collectively that whole group if they actually really or maybe you don't realize maybe you don't realize that you're

at peace or you're content until it's actually over but i'm just not ready to write him off and say like he's cool just going i'm not ready to write him off either i'm saying 41 games i'm saying if they can't get anybody this summer if the the guy had never won a title, this is a disaster now, right? It's like, oh my God, this is my last chance. Clock's ticking. I gotta get a ring. Well, chances are he's not getting a ring. He's not getting a ring.

If you had to bet money on it, he's- But I wonder if there's a chance this plays out where he just hits that kind of Kobe stage with a better team where it's like, all right, it's just me and the young guys. I'm a Laker. I'm a family man. I'm a dad.

And this will be the rest of my career. I got Space Jam coming out. I'm just at a different phase of my life. I kind of wish he wasn't making Space Jam because all anybody does is bring up Space Jam as if some reason he's supposed to be happy losing basketball games. Wow. Nephew Kyle agreed with that one. What do you mean? It's just we keep doing this thing where it's like, oh, yeah, Space Jam. He's good. He's got Spring Hill

Entertainment. Okay, cool. So he's making a bunch of TV shows. So that means, like I get as you get older in life, you start going, hey, this stuff, like you might be right. Would you think less of him if this was just the rest of his career I think it'd be weird I think it'd be weird for a guy to go to straight eight straight finals have this kind of collectively disastrous season not so much for him because I still think it's incredibly impressive what he did numbers wise but to be hurt when they were going to be a playoff team and for him to go into next year being like you know what I'm good I'm good okay so I don't think I don't think he's accepted this yet I don't think he's accepted so yet. I don't think he's accepted the way you think it is. So I'll flip this around.

Let's say they can't get anybody again. Yeah. Under your logic, if you're right, wouldn't he ask for a trade? My clock's ticking. It didn't work out here. There's no path for us to contend for a title. Can you move me?

That wouldn't shock me because I think he regrets this. Well, if that's true and you're right, then that's where this is headed if they can't get anybody this summer. I'm wondering if he's kind of okay either way. If they get somebody, great. Let's contend for titles. If they don't, I moved to LA.

This was a lifestyle move as much as it was a basketball move. Had some bad breaks. We'll win 50 games. I'll have a couple more moments in the playoffs. I'm going to break every record and I'm good. Now, as a writer, I understand being here, you have to be here. You've got to go to those lunches.

Yeah. You've got to go to the Soho house. Right. And you think you're going there and then you're getting pitched for to those lunches yeah you've got to go to the soho house right and you think you're going there and then you're getting pitched for something that they want from you and it's just the way the machine works lebron has more time to write it i can tell you more bill off the air but lebron could still get these things done if he was playing for a contender in a different place production company's rolling he can get on a conference call and he can film this stuff in the off season the same way he's going to do it now, even living here.

So just because he's doing all these different entertainment things, I don't think a new TV show makes him okay with the first time tasting failure, which he's like, this is an incredible amount of failure for him based on the standard that he set. And I don't sense that he's cool with it. And yeah, I, I do think there's a version. If he's not cool with it, then why hasn't he said something? Because he doesn't want to say anything. He doesn't, like, that's the other thing.

He realizes no matter what I do, whatever I say, I get crushed by some pocket of the country and it bothers him. He cares about it. So his move in the last couple of years is that he's reserved. And if he says anything, it's very calculated and trying to figure some angle out.

But for you to go, is there a chapter in this LeBron book with the Lakers where it gets really tumultuous He's reserved. And if he says anything, it's very calculated and trying to figure some angle out. But for you to go, is there a chapter in this LeBron book with the Lakers where it gets really tumultuous if it doesn't work out and they're getting their asses kicked and he doesn't want to go into the sunset losing with all these Lakers? And he pushes for a trade in February. Would you be shocked if that actually happened with the way LeBron has dictated his career? I'm not going to be.

I actually would be more shocked if he demanded a trade than I would be if he was just like, all right, this is the rest of my career. This is just what's going to happen. I do know he wants to play with his son. Yeah. But I don't know where that would be. It's not impossible.

I think it's really hard to put together a contender and you need a lot of luck. They have some good assets. They have the possibility to trade for a piece. If I was a Laker fan, I'd be nervous that I was going to gut the team with every asset I had to just get Davis,

and it was just going to be LeBron and Anthony Davis. But then I don't trust the organization running the team to fill in the other spots. As we saw tonight, you need seven guys. I don't know if they can get that. I don't know. If I were them, I would obviously go all in for Davis if you can get him. If you can't get him, I don't know what free agent is out there that really

changes my destiny. I would almost rather do nothing and keep the cap space and try to make a move in February or something. I can't believe we're talking about the Lakers. Can we just do gym corner? Yeah. All right. Gym corner and then we're done.

This is for a while. It's really spruced it up this time. All right. Some of you guys, man, in the shoes, like remember Eastland loafers back in the day yeah why can't you just find thinner sneakers like guys are wearing loafers because like that natural barefoot grip thing but you can't just have a bunch of dudes running around the gym barefoot kyle knows what i'm talking about some of these guys squatting they're doing in socks they're doing these look like guys guys are wearing loafers and i look at him going did you

just shave your mustache like what what look are you going for here where it's like i'm trying so hard to kind of stand out at the gym with a different deal so i've noticed loafers a little bit more so there's been a run on on loafers as people are working out loafers guys are lifting in loafers and that's the fucking weirdest thing i've ever heard what's happening and you know i saw a couple guys in the east coast doing it i'm seeing it a ton out here and uh i'm not happy about it because i think it's just trying really hard just get thinner shoes sneakers Nike. Ever heard of it? David Aruto wants to know, regarding people who are lifting with improper or bad form,

have you ever had the instinct to just intervene and give them a tip without trying to sound like a douche? Only with a couple of young kids. I did it because I was watching them do military press and they were doing it like free military press, right? So the 45 pound bar and they put it in the squat rack and they would just get underneath it with a 90 degree angle seat and they would push it up. And like,

I know guys can do it, but if you're doing it too heavy and you're young and you're, you're cranking your spine, you're just going to fuck yourself up and you're going to hurt yourself to the point where it's like going you're young and you're cranking your spine, you're just going to fuck yourself up and you're going to hurt yourself to the point where it's going to be a recurring injury the rest of your life. I have a thing in my right shoulder blade between the spine and the right shoulder blade. It goes out once every six months.

There's nothing I can do about it. It's all jacked up. And it's because of improper military technique. So I have had a couple of times where I'm like, look, dude, I know I must look 100 to you. And there's nothing worse than gym guy trying to help you out. Like I had a guy about a year ago, had 405 on the squat rack, no big deal. And he came running across.

He's like, hey, dude, there's a lot of weight. I'm like, yeah. Are you paying attention? Yeah. we're good over here the gun show is going on right now we're good and the core is strong and uh i'm sponsored by the nra right now right so i what he's like just you know i'm like you know what i definitely didn't want is a stranger to grab my waist and be behind me doggy style while we're about to do squats together so like i got this. I'm going to get a couple clean ones.

I'm going to put it away and we'll be good. So I hate it. I mean, if anybody does it to me. So the advice is don't do it. Don't do it. But these kids, I go, look, just trust me on this one. If you're going to do military, do it on the Smith machine. Just turn the bench back a little bit so it's not 90 degrees.

Just a little bit like it's the deepest incline you could ever do and get underneath it. Don't try to lift too much. I know it's cool. I did it too. And you screw yourself up. And both high school kids said, you know what, man?

Thanks. And I go, all right. Gen Z. Vano from Toronto wants to know, can you talk about your reaction with CrossFit athletes going to your a regular gym and any of your experiences there making fun of crossfit's a little played out now i think um because some of these guys on instagram that are really good at it's actually really

incredibly impressive and i look at some of their stuff and i'm like man i wish i were healthy enough to pull all this stuff off but i've always felt like crossfit is one of those deals where a lot of you are people that sucked at sports your whole life and you got to do this thing where you just you know you get a coffee in the morning and you bought all this shit from rogue which is cool stuff and you know you're like oh my god like i got another personal vest on my clean and jerk and you know it's like but you like the bumper plates because the 10s look like 45s so it's like holy shit is that person like just throwing around 315 be like no it's it's 95 um and then you throw it down and you videotape it and you know you post it you're like oh my god you know i'm working a little bit harder

i like the fact that you said bagging on crossfit it's kind of a cliche with that said and then you just didn't know because some of the people that are really good at it and kick ass and yeah like you know they're thick as hell and they've got abs to go with it like i'm not going to sit there and hate on that i just think that there's an element of like everybody wants to feel included right everybody wants to feel like they're part of something and i think crossfit provided a thing for people that weren't necessarily all that athletic but hey you know what like i'm the guy sitting around my basement by myself for a month and a half straight because i've got these scripts to bang out so if you go to a tough mutter and have a couple ipas with strangers and then meet new people like you're

probably winning at life more than i am so who the fuck am i to make fun of that these are great points what uh fish from san jose wants to know what's it with the guys in the gym wearing low top converse or van sneakers is this worse than loafers or no i'm better i don't think it's worse uh you know the converse thing i don't know that you can ever really knock it you know like even in the gym okay yeah i don know, the converse thing, I don't know that you can ever really knock it, you know, like even in the gym. Okay. Yeah. The Vance thing you're just going to run into out here. Yeah.

Um, last one from Matt in Detroit. What about the old timers at the gym who take a couple of minutes to compliment some weight you're putting up. Yeah. But then bring it back to back in their day when they're putting up five times the amount it's like the backhand a compliment i can't wait to do that as i get older so that's how you're aware of that yeah oh yeah yeah yeah because like

i remember one time like i stopped doing incline heavy heavy incline because i just feel like my right arm is something's wrong with it with this one angle and uh like i was kind of like doing like cheat reps you know getting started and then this obviously enormous fat guy with a huge weight belt on and he didn't even do it right he's like oh no you're not getting full uh not getting full range of motion on those i'm like all right lee haney like relax uh but the one thing i've noticed about like kind of old steroid guy that like still has it going on a little bit just massive forearms maybe turned a wrench back in his day yeah like a lot of those guys won't give up on anything right because they're still working out they're still putting a big weight and they'll pay attention to like a younger guy putting up

some big weight but i've been kind of weak. I don't know the last few months. Everything's messed up. But a lot of those guys have hair. A lot of those guys have hair plugs. And that's what made me just go, I'm out. I'm not going to try. Like anybody who's losing their hair at a younger age. And then you're like, I used to be hot. I'm supposed to be on TV.

I still have to be super hot. I don't know if I'm going to be super hot anymore. And you're a two out of one. right and i'm a two so i was like yeah let's see what this dr leonard's all about you know i don't know if that's the right name so you order the pamphlet and you're like 10 000 bucks like jesus i'm it's like a third of my salary just to get it reseated up there and the guy at the gym who's done it yeah who maybe didn't do the best one yeah like it is discount it is like laser imaging straight line of seeds across the front so like their bangs it's like this perfect thing and it's too low i've just seen too many of those guys with the worst transplant thing where i was like i'm just

gonna shave my head. But that's why I have to stay jacked because if I'm 170 with no hair, I can't be hanging out of Manhattan Beach. I have to move like torrents. That was Kyle. Is that the most special episode of Jim Corner we've ever had? Definitely the longest one. All right. There's a lot of good content here.

All right. Kyle's answer was no. It wasn't the best episode. It was definitely the longest. Thank you, Kyle. All right. We're answer was no. It wasn't the best episode. It was definitely the longest. Thank you, Kyle. All right, we're wrapping up. Hold on, Wilds. Don't go yet.

Let Wilds go. No, Wilds, wait. We're almost done. Do you have a half-baked idea for us? Yeah, I've got a bunch. You want to do it tomorrow? Sure. All right.

We're still prediction right now for the finals. Quickly. Golden State in seven really? I'm not going to get caught up we spent an hour talking about it Clay didn't play, they're getting Durant back enough said okay

I mean it would have to be Golden State in seven at this point I don't know how I feel yet. I want to watch game four. I know it's a cop-out. I do think it's more likely Toronto in five than Golden State in seven. I will say that. I think Toronto is in really good shape with the miles that Curry was put on him today.

And the fact that the supporting cast did not look good. And I thought it was a decisive win. And I actually thought it could have been worse. No, it was decisive. I actually thought that could have been like a 30-point win, but I don't know if a good place happened. I feel like this is like judging a movie where there's scenes missing. Yeah.

I'm just, the unknown of those words, guys, I'm just not sure. That's fair. Anyway, Dual Threat, SVP and Russassilo you can sign up for that right now when's that you did the first one yeah I flew to Connecticut for 19 hours bang that one out and uh we'll be doing it once a month but yeah thanks for letting me promote that and I'm still doing the rassilo podcast and I'm headed to game four and dual threat you're like an official podcast whore. Yeah. I thought I was going to work less.

And I work. Even though the podcasting is easier, you have to like prep for it more. Yeah. Turns out it's work because people listen and they throw it back in your face if you fuck stuff up and all that stuff.

Yeah. And you're going to game four. So if you see Russillo, make sure to go up to him and mention Jim Corner and maybe a quick tip about the reps. We'll talk next week. Probably after game five, we're thinking. Whatever you need. Game five

post game. All right. Thanks to Rosillo. Thanks to Wilds for his cameo. We're going to bank some half-baked ideas this week. We haven't done that podcast in forever. My favorite half-baked idea of all time was Felonyland that I came up with. Wilds came up with something i only came up with a couple good ones but felony land i really peaked and uh also i we

created the purge we created the purge series on uh on half-baked ideas that was mine but it was what was mine i just remember they they modeled the purge after my day was leap year every four years would be a day without crime or without like basically there were no rules so every four years there's one day anything could happen became the purge i'm just saying do you get checks like royalty i probably should i should have thanks to the zone d-a-z-n.com we taped with uh andy ruiz junior and we're gonna be running that next week he was awesome Kyle one of Kyle's

favorite guests so we have that Fruit of the Loom life is better with vents especially in your underwear Fruit of the Loom cool zone fly boxer briefs

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use the code build to get an additional 10% off their current promotion of 20% off the cool Zone fly box of briefs. That's fruit.com, a promo code Bill. Quick programming note, we're not doing a Sunday night podcast this week,

but we are putting up a new rewatchable, it's Dead Poets Society, 30 year anniversary. Just an incredible movie, even all these years later. And me, Mally Rubin, Chris Ryan broke it down. That is going up midnight, Sunday night, heading into Monday. So that will take place to this podcast. Don't forget to subscribe to Ring or Dish and For Realsies, hosted by my favorite person. Drop it today.

Yeah, drop it Thursday. So you can listen to that after you're done with this and enjoy the extended weekend.