The Bill Simmons Podcast - Trading Antonio Brown, Donaghy Scandal 2.0, and the 2014 5-Year Oscars with Mallory Rubin, Kevin Clark, Sean Fennessey, and Chris Ryan | The Bill Simmons Podcast (Ep. 485)

Episode Date: February 21, 2019

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Kevin Clark and Mallory Rubin to discuss possible landing spots for Antonio Brown, Le'Veon Bell, Kyler Murray and more (3:40). Then Bill talks with Chris Ryan about the Ringer article, "NBA Take Meter: The Stretch Run, Part 1" as well as ESPN's Tim Donaghy report (43:45). Finally Sean Fennessey joins Bill and Chris to revisit the 2014 Oscars 5 years later to dole out some cinematic justice (1:03:40). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network brought to you as always by ZipRecruiter. Having a high sports IQ, very important. You know who has a high sports IQ? Tom Brady. Yeah, six-time Super Bowl champ. You know what the value of a high sports IQ is? You win six Super Bowls like Tom Brady did.

But when it comes to hiring, you don't need a high hiring IQ. You need ZipRecruiter. So effective. 80% of employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate through the site in just one day. My listeners can try it for free. Go to ZipRecruiter.com. ZipRecruiter is the smartest way to hire. Meanwhile, spring training is here.

Manny Machado is a padre. We have no idea where Bryce Harper is playing. But that doesn't stop you or shouldn't stop you from building a fantasy team around either of them. The Yahoo Fantasy app, the number one mobile app in fantasy baseball, the official fantasy game of the MLB. Check out the Yahoo Pro Leagues, Public Leagues. You play for cash.

Yahoo handles all the money, no commissioner. Buy in for as little as 20 or as much as 1,000 bucks. Build your Yahoo team around these Pantheon level superstars, stash prospects, whatever you want. Download the Yahoo fantasy app or sign up now at yahoo.com slash fantasy baseball. We're also brought to you by Belvedere produced in one of the world's longest running distillery distilleries.

I can't speak. Belvedere vodka is the world's finest all-natural vodka, part of a 600-year Polish vodka-making tradition. Belvedere is made with non-GMO Polish rye, pure water, no additives,

recognized for quality, named the ISC World Vodka Producer of the Year in 15, 16, and 17. Enjoy a delicious cocktail with Belvedere vodka today and remember to always

drink responsibly. We're also brought to you by TheRinger.com, the world's greatest website, The Ringer Podcast Network, which has just an incredible number of entertaining podcasts. And let's give a special shout out to The Ringer's YouTube channel,

which passed 100,000 subscribers this week. Thanks to everybody who spread the word for us. Apparently, we get like a silver button. They mail it to us, Kyle. How big is who spread the word for us. Apparently we get like a silver button. They mail it to us, Kyle. How big is it? I don't know. And, and we're going to be fighting over who gets to have it in their office, but I didn't know it was such a big deal to pass a hundred thousand subscribers. I would have, I would have, uh, I would have cared more. I would have been plugging the channel. You know how competitive I am. This is great. We are in the 100,000 club and now the sky's the limit. I'm have been plugging the channel. You know how competitive I am. This is great. We are in the 100,000 club

and now the sky's the limit. I'm really proud of the video team and everybody here because we put a lot of work into those videos. I think we've done a lot of cool things with them. So all good. Thanks for spreading the word for us. And thanks to YouTube.

Mail us that silver thing already. I'm excited for it. Coming up, we have Mallory, Rubin, and Kevin Clark from The Ringer talking about Antonio Brown's situation, where it's headed, who's trading for him, as well as all the other off-season NFL gossip. And then Chris Ryan comes in.

We're going to talk about ESPN's crazy Donahue piece about Tim Donahue, the referee, that they did this week, as well as some hot takes for the rest of the season. And then me and Sean Fantasy and Chris Ryan are going to do the five-year Oscars, which has become a tradition. We wait five years,

and then we go back to the Oscars from five years ago and try to figure out if the right movies and actors and actresses won. So we're going to be doing that with the 2014 Oscars. All of that is coming up. But first, Pearl Jam. The ringers Kevin Clark is here. The ringers Mallory Rubin is here. Hello.

Trying to get more sports out of her before she goes into the Thrones quicksand. Game of Thrones is a sport, I think. You're not wrong. There's betting for it. We're going to talk Antonio Brown's next team because I think this is important. This is somebody that is top six or seven all-time receiver with a chance to go basically has a chance

to be the second best receiver of all time if he has five more good years. He's in the mix. He's going to be 31 this year. Yeah. But the kind of body he has I do feel like he could

he could age pretty well as this decade goes. Randy Moss was 30 when he joined the 07 Patriots. Right. And it already had slippage and stuff. Brown has never really had slippage. And you could argue like the QB,

like who the F knows. He's under contract. Two more years. His contract jumps, I think on March 13th. So they basically have a two week span to trade him. But he's already saying that he wants to renegotiate his contract wherever he goes, that he wants guaranteed money. So you have to factor that in.

I don't know if you heard him say how he's made $75 million already. He's very happy to tell people that because fans love hearing stuff like that. First question, because the Colts make the most sense for him just for like who needs him who has the assets who has the cap space

is there any way the Steelers trade him to an AFC team I say no I say no so they have $107 million in cap space they are

they are ready to win as we saw they were probably the hottest team in the NFL over the second half of the season if they hadn't run into

a Mahomesian buzzsaw, it's a very different story with them. I think there are cases to be made for, but I think, listen, dude, they just drafted two all pros last year. I think they're,

from a football standpoint, I would take on the risk and say, well, let's try to win a Super Bowl this year. I just don't know if it fits their risk profile. And from a Steelers perspective, I mean, you're basically handing another AFC team a juggernaut.

And I don't think they would do that. You're souping up your own competition. Unless... You're creating a Super Bowl favorite in your own conference. We have a Steelers hater in the house, Miley Rubin. Proud Steelers hater. Is there a roadmap where the Steelers say, let's throw away 2019, we don't care.

Let's just get the most for him because this is our rebuilding year. If he wants to win a Super Bowl with Indianapolis, knock yourself out. Well, so the Brown thing doesn't exist in a vacuum to answer that question, right? He's demanding a trade. They're acknowledging that they're shopping him.

They've announced they're not tagging Bell. No surprise, of course. But so Le'Veon Bell's going to hit the market. The Roethlisberger era is coming to an end. So that's the heart of the offense for this last run of dominance, gone or about to be gone. So sure, maybe they're entering a rebuilding mode,

but I don't know if that cancels out the unwillingness to consider an AFC rival. However, then you factor in how hard it's going to be to find the partner they need because they have very little leverage given that he's been out there saying for all this time,

I don't want to be a stealer anymore, right? The fact that he then came out and said, I want to renegotiate my deal and I want guaranteed money. Yeah, that was a great. And that the GM, the team has come out and said, we're going to demand like a star load for a star player, right? That's a pretty tough calculus.

You can't also then say we're only going to consider five teams. That said, I think Ravens, Browns, Bengals, Patriots are probably non-starters. The Browns would be amazing. The Browns would be a- And they have $78 million in cap space. The Browns would be amazing. The Browns would be a- And they have $78 million in cap space. The Browns would be a great destination for him.

It's unfortunate. I thought about this. Yeah. The two sort of fantasy destinations from a football dork perspective are the Browns and the Chiefs.

And I don't think they would trade them to either. I didn't even put the Chiefs on this list because that's- You can't trade them to the Chiefs. They have $25 million

in cap space. Can I ask a question? He would just be unbelievable in the Chiefs. They have $25 million in cash spares. Can I ask a question? He would just be unbelievable in the Chiefs. I have a nugget on that, but go ahead. Always count on Clark for a nugget.

I love when Clark has nuggets. I hate to be the Debbie Downer, but I feel compelled to mention and ask about the domestic incident and the fact that the NFL is currently looking into it, whatever that means, given that

it's the NFL. Now, the police are not investigating the incident currently, based on my understanding, is that right? But does the fact that the NFL is investigating this claim have any bearing on a potential deal? Or is the fact that unfortunately this is the NFL and terrible things happen? They came out pretty aggressively after that happened, pointing out some of what they felt like were the factual flaws of the argument. There was no official police report, like all that stuff, right?

I think the fact that this is the NFL, and look, I mean, the Browns just acquired Kareem Hunt. Well, yeah. I mean, it would be naive to the point of absurdity to say that this is something NFL teams would care about, but feel compelled to mention it as a factor in his offseason. Well, the Chiefs waving Kareem Hunt, unless there's nothing to this AB thing,

but then going that way would be a weird move. What was your nugget on the Chiefs? Oh, it was that when I spoke to Brett Feach earlier in the year about Mahomes and how to build an offense around him, he literally said the player he looks at when he's scouting wide receivers is Antonio Brown. Because what you have, he said,

you have to put receivers on your board who can extend a play and it's almost like hoops. You have to know exactly where they are. You have to know exactly the chemistry when you're throwing to a guy and he was like you look at Antonio Brown he's the best to ever do it what they're looking for so if you're looking for an Antonio Brown type in the draft every single year and Antonio Brown becomes available maybe it's the kind of thing where you say you know what screw it let's just give up a second round pick and see what happens I'm not saying that's going to happen again they'll have 25 million dollars in cap space they're going to tag d ford i'm just saying if you want to go all in on a rookie contract

hold your noses for this next point oh boy he's the perfect patriot this is like how many minutes into the pot are we about five six i've been my own personal over under had three and a half minutes for Bill. I thought that was going to be the first question. Yeah. Did you ask the... I am frankly stunned by your restraint. I think there's a 0% chance

they would ever trade him in the Patriots, but you're talking about two decades of Brady. This is the ultimate type of receiver that he succeeds with. He's had very... Troy Brown in 2001 was 75% what AB is. Deion Branch was a bargain basement AB.

The Welker, what he has with Edelman, Antonio Brown's like the best ever version of that. Yeah. He'd be unbelievable. So there's a couple of things. Number one is that

Antonio Brown led the NFL, I'm sorry, was third in the NFL last year in go route efficiency. So basically his best route is just going right down the field. Oh, was third in the NFL last year in go route efficiency. So basically his best route is just going right down the field. Oh, that's bad for Brady. Yeah. That's what I was going to say. I was going to say, listen, Antonio Brown can cut over the middle of field as good as anybody. That's kind of the Brett Feech thing. That's kind of the chief saying is that he can

really get open on the middle of field, but his most efficient route last year was just going straight. I feel like he's like an unbelievable slot receiver who also has the ability to beat anybody deep. That's what makes him special and that's why he's one of the five or six best ever. He's like if Julian Edelman could also just beat people

on a straight line. Yeah. No, man, that's what it is. I think at one point, I don't know the final tally on this, but for most of the season he was leading the NFL in uncatchable balls thrown at him

because Roethlisberger was just so inaccurate. Well, that's the other thing. So I think they could extend his career. If you're getting him, you're getting somebody who was just with a quarterback who I thought underperformed and was really erratic and might not give a shit the same way he did 10 years ago. Whereas Tom Brady was just peak performance all season long, never gave anybody a reason to wonder if he was slowing down. Kyle, how many Super Bowls

do we have? That'd be six. That's right. I can't... I always have trouble. Is it five, six, seven? Once it gets past five, it's like you gotta take a breath and be like, how many did we win? If you were eating more strawberries, you'd have a better memory. But I know you like

to follow the TB12 diet. Six. Yeah, some garlic. I love this. The throwing the ball. I love this because she gets to make fun of the Patriots so I can just sit here and take it all in. You can focus on the nuggets. Yeah, I don't have to be the heavy here.

You can be the heel. Here's why I don't think they would go for Antonio Brown because they've just proven they don't need receivers to win a Super Bowl. They had one and they had a broken down tight end and a bunch of weird running backs and they won the Super Bowl. Of all your insufferable Patriots takes,

the Patriots don't need Antonio Brown. It's like one of the most reprehensible. I want to talk about this for a second. Sorry. Sorry for being honest. When I was in Mobile... Going 12-4 next year, we'll see you in the Super Bowl. When I was in Mobile for the Senior Bowl, I saw a GM.

And I was talking to him and I was trying to do a story on how the Rams and the Patriots have the opposite team building philosophy. And I was like, you know, it's crazy. The Patriots have this team building philosophy where they just win on the edges. They never go all in like the Rams do. And the GM looked at me and he said, listen to me, nothing matters except Belichick and Brady.

That's all. They've proven that over and over again. Nothing matters. And I actually, I don't think it's that, but I just kind of think, I agree with you. It's a house with great bones. We're sitting here and saying, oh, you know, receiver can help

this team, this team, this team. Be great. The Patriots have proven that if you just have a good coach, a good quarterback,

and you're smarter than everybody else, you can win most times. We had the third best wide receiver of all time in 07. We did not win the Super Bowl with him

during his peak season. I am convinced more than ever that they just benefit from other teams falling apart and doing dumb shit. Yeah. And that's like almost part of the Belichick Brady greatness.

They're a casino. I will say this though. I watched Inside the NFL and I watched Mic'd Up and I watched all the other NFL Network content where guys had mics during the game. McVay lost that Super Bowl before the game when he went up to Belichick and it was like the Chris Farley show. Did you see that? Bill, it's such an honor to go against you, man. I just really love what you guys are doing.

Belichick's like, I'm trying to win a Super Bowl. Can you go away? It was done. I think McVay thought he was going to win. I think it was kind of a... He was trying to do that so that people would see that as a moment of respect and passing of the torch. That was my vibe, what I got from that.

Kevin would never go up to another writer and offer a compliment. He just goes up and says, I'm going to crush you with my nuggets. Yeah. He would sit next to him in the press box and then try to stare him down. Maybe do some passive aggressive tweets. I would do the Jim McMahon Rizal thing. I would just have their name on a headband. So we haven't mentioned the team where I think he's going.

The 49ers. Yes. Yeah. Yes. It makes the most sense. 76 million in cap space. He also posted an Instagram of himself photoshopped into a 49ers uniform.

He was also in this office two weeks ago and talked about how he loves the 49ers. He's been tweeting at almost everybody on the 49ers and they've been tweeting back. Yes.

So here are the odds. SUP, I believe, was the kiddle. 49ers. 49ers plus 350. They are the favorites for the Browns sweepstakes. Steelers also plus 350.

Cowboys are 8-1, which is hilarious. Jets are 8-1, which is hilarious. Jets are 10-1. That's kind of the fuck you trade for Antonio Brown. We should talk about that. Yeah. There's an amazing Jets possibility to consider, which is both Bell and Brown on the Jets.

Because Bell is an obvious Jet. 100%. On the downside, costs a ton of money, isn't exactly at an efficient position. That's classic jets. It is really like textbook jets. Vintage jets.

The fuck you trades for Brown are number one Buffalo. Oh yeah. Enjoy Buffalo. Enjoy the smallest city we have. Josh Allen connecting on one of the TV thoughts. Enjoy Josh Allen as your quarterback. Enjoy getting your ass kicked by the Pats.

And enjoy not exactly the most diverse city. There you go. Good luck. That won't be great. The number two fuck you city is the Jets. Yeah. I don't know. I think he might like that.

He won't realize it's a fuck you city until we're eight games in and Sam Darnold has just thrown five picks against the Chiefs. And he's like, oh shit, what did I do? I think that he has a unique ability. There's not many receivers who can make an offense that much better.

There were three. He was number two in the NFL last year in 30-yard-plus touchdowns. Number one was Ty Hill. He was tied with Saquon Barkley. If you want more Saquon Barkley, Ireland, ammo, there it is. Love that guy. But I think that, you know,

I think that one of the interesting things is that, you know, Odell Beckham might be on the market, too. And I just... Good. No, and I... Pass. What?

You'd rather have Brown than Beckham? I wouldn't go near Odell Beckham. Wait, why? Why? I think the chaos that he brings is insurmountable. But how can you say that about Beckham and not Brown?

Because Brown's actually been on teams that succeeded. And I think the situation he was in, I can at least understand... What was the success? Was it losing to Blake Bortles? Was that the success? They won like 10 to 13 games almost every year.

He's never made a Super Bowl. No. But whose fault is that? I don't know. Whose fault is it that the Giants haven't? Odell Beckham has been operating with the worst quarterback. Eli Manning is just not very good. I don't know if you've checked in on Eli Manning

since he beat your team in a Super Bowl, but he's not very good. He just not very good. I don't know if you've checked in on Eli Manning since he beat your team in a Super Bowl, but he's not very good. He's not very good. I just think the cost is less for Brown. Maybe, only because he's younger and the cap is similar. Beckham is like, I'm paying a king's ransom

for a guy who might be a semi-lunatic. I don't know if I want to do that. I think... And I'm also not sure he can stay in the field. I would make know if I want to do that. I don't know. I think... And I'm also not sure he can stay in the field. I would make the case that with Odell, whatever narrative you're either going to opt into or brand is ridiculous.

I think Kevin and I are in the this is a ridiculous narrative about Odell camp. What is? That he's a distraction and that there's chaos. No such thing as a distraction. Regardless of whether you think that's true or not, I would say that with Odell, it's more predictable in the sense that it's always sort of of a piece with the other things that he does. He really cares about winning. He wants to win. And so if there's an outburst or a tirade, it's about how badly he wants to win. What part of the last few months

or years of the Antonio Brown experience was predictable? So that would be the rub. Getting on an elliptical or whatever he was on and doing an Instagram live to talk about the new nickname he wants and his new contract demands. I think the Masked Singer was the biggest red flag. And how happy he was to be on that. Dancing with the Stars is a red flag. The whole thing that happened the last week

where he wasn't playing and all that. I agree. He brings his own version of chaos, but I just think his resume is at a whole other level than Odell's. Okay. I mean, Brown's like right now, probably like the fifth best receiver ever. Sure.

But in 2019, there are better quarter, better receivers than him. DeAndre Hopkins is probably better than him. I think Odell on a talent basis is probably going to have a better 2019. So you're saying you'd rather hit your wagon to a younger Odell because you feel like it's an equal level of chaos with either guy? I would look at it as how much he's going to cost, similar cap hits

the next two years. It comes down to what the Giants want to get for him. If you can get Odell Beckham for a first round pick, I would take him. So if you're the Niners... It's an Amari Cooper cost. Amari Cooper's just pretty good. You're the second pick. How dare you talk about your slow news day co-host Amari Cooper costs Amari Cooper is just you know pretty good you're the second pick how dare you talk about

your slow news day co-host Amari Cooper that way Darnold canceled on slow news day because he's focused on building a new offense he's the new Matt Stafford

with Bell and Brown you have the second pick if you're the Niners the Steelers have the 20th pick the Steelers call you up and they say

let's flip first and you can have AB. Did the Niners do that? They should. They should, yeah. You have to move up 18 spots. They should. They have to build an offense around Garoppolo. They have to. Or Nick Mullins. This is one

of your best takes. Nick Mullins. Oh, that's... Play action lord. Nick Mullins over Garoppolo? No, I'm joking. Nick Mullins with Shanahanolo no I'm joking Nick Mullins with Shanahan over like 10 NFL starting quarterbacks

but not Garoppolo somebody had a take online today that was so in your red hot take wheelhouse it was the Tevin Coleman

Tevin Coleman is a better free agent than Le'Veon Bell I feel like Tevin quietly agrees with that I don't no no no

I think he was jealous of it no no no Tevin loves fresh legs was jealous of it. No, no, no, no. Kevin loves fresh legs. That's wrong. It's not about that. It's about never signing a running back

at free agent. Yeah. That's it. It's just ignore. If a running back is making more than a rookie contract, don't have him on your team.

We just won a Super Bowl with a running back who got the limited amount of yards every time there was a giant hole. Sonny Michel, who also can't catch for some reason, had seven catches in four months. Rex

Burkhead, who's like, what is he? He made huge plays in the playoffs. And then James White, who basically didn't even really play. I would agree. It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. I want to talk about distraction culture for a second because I just feel like it's so...

The Seahawks won a Super Bowl when Super Bowl week, they were just punching each other in the face. Right. Okay? Like, has anyone looked into the early 90s Cowboys for some distractions? Well, on the online era, it's a little different now.

I will bring up that the ultimate distraction of all time was a guy who was murdering people and he almost won a Super Bowl. Who was that? Aaron Hernandez. Aaron Hernandez? What? He was a distraction in the locker room. If anybody's ever been a distraction, that's him.

He didn't know about the murders. Jesus. How many crimes did he commit in the locker room Kyle this is what they have to do After six titles They gotta bring up Hernandez He scored the go ahead touchdown

In the Super Bowl And he committed at least Wow A long Nobody knew at that point A long list of crimes Jesus Speaking of distractions

At the very least Distraction culture Distraction's not always the player Sometimes the coach Yes How about John Gruden And the Raiders? Yeah, great one.

I'm going to do the Sopranos. Oh! Around $60 million in cap space. So that is... This feels right in a lot of ways. That's 20 to 1. This feels right to me in a lot of ways.

And that's where the Steelers already did business with Mark Davis Bryant. Right. They know they need a marketable star heading into the Vegas year. Right?

A season away from that. But you got to start thinking ahead to that. He loves star power. Doesn't care about distractions. You can hear him right now at his first press conference. This Antonio Brown. Jets are 10 to 1. Packers are 12 to 1. I'm crossing them off because I just don't think they're going to trade him to a Hall of Fame quarterback

and then set up the narrative of Antonio Brown trashing Ben Roethlisberger and is like, now I'm with the real quarterback. They're not doing that. And then Saints are off the board too. They're for the same reasons. What about the Cardinals? Yeah, the Cardinals have a ton of cap space. It's a good FU team.

It's a good FU team. I don't understand why, if you're the Cardinals, you'd make that move. I mean, they have a weird identity crisis. They signed Charles Clay yesterday. They've signed two of the guys, the Falcons. Are you saying they're poorly run? Because they've just hired a coach

and then fired him nine months later? And hired a fired college coach. And hired a fired college coach. Who would have probably taken the job as offensive coordinator if you'd offered it to him since he was a college offensive coordinator? It's definitely easier to win in the NFL

than at Texas Tech. Everything will be fine. And with a quarterback who's worse than either Patrick Mahomes. Well, so that's the scenario I want to quickly play out. This fantasy thought experiment that the collective football fandom is engaging in where they get rid of Josh Rosen, Cliff drafts Kyler Murray, who he has openly said, obviously this was before he took the NFL job,

he thinks is a number one overall talent. And then they pair Kyler Murray with Antonio Brown. They're already working out together. Antonio Brown's already catching passes from Kyler Murray because they've been working out. Antonio Brown's cousin, Hollywood Brown, who's also an NFL prospect in this draft class, is Kyler Murray's Oklahoma teammate.

They've all been working out together. Disney also works out with Russell Wilson as well, if I'm not mistaken. Antonio Brown. You think there's a Seattle possibility here? They took on the guy who was punching people, Percy Harvin. Can't be worse than that.

I'm trying to figure out whether Sean Fantasy or Danny Kelly would process this in healthier fashion. Seahawks, $52 million in cap space. Sean Fantasy or Danny Kelly would like process this. Okay, so Seahawks, Seahawks, $52 million in cap space. They had the number one go-route receiver last year, Lockett. So now you just run go-routes over and over,

four verts over and over again. That's sustainable offense, baby. I like it. Simplify the offense. Give Russell Wilson more time to work on his trivia app so that Roger Sherman can win more money on it.

The best part of it is they get Antonio Brown. They get Tyler Lockett. They still run the ball on the first two downs on every single Brian shot. And I just runs the ball up the middle on every single play. And then on third down, they throw a third and 10 heave to Brown or lock it. Incredible.

I got to stick up for my Antonio Brown, Odell Beckham point. Okay, go ahead. I just think he's, I think he's a Brown or Lockett. Incredible. I got to stick up for my Antonio Brown, Odell Beckham point. Okay, go ahead. I just think he's a level higher. Okay. I just do. He is. I really like Antonio Brown. I really honestly think if he could just stay healthy

for three or four more years, he would be the second best receiver of all time. He's not at the level he was in 2015 and 2016. He's a little bit, as far as the efficiency stats, some of those things, he has dipped a little bit in productivity, Brown. I still think he's an elite, elite receiver. I just think that I'd rather have a 26-year-old at the same cap number who has just some of the best athleticism we've ever seen than a 31-year-old.

By the way, Antonio Brown, sneaky left-hander. I would rather... He's another one of your left-handers. I think Brown costs me a lot less, and I would rather do that. It's potentially better short-term than Beckham is, but I don't have to give up. Oh, I would have to give up for Beckham.

I don't think the Giants trade Beckham for anything less than two firsts. Because now they're kind of stuck in the position they're in. You could get Brown by flipping 20 for two, potentially. And now they're kind of stuck in the position they're in. You can get Brown by flipping 20 for two, potentially. And then you get Brown out of it. Like, to me, that makes much more sense. Yeah, no, I'd rather have that. I'm not saying that

you should sell the farm to get Odell Beckham. I'm saying that if you were, which one would you rather have on the team? I'd rather have Odell Beckham. Le'Veon Bell quickly, where does he go? Oh, God. The Jets. The Jets. The Jets. Yeah, there's going to be some. It's unfortunate that the Browns are smarter

because it would have been a classic Browns overpay two years ago. Can we say the Browns are smarter when they just brought Kareem Hunt in at the running back position? It's more, I'm talking more about. When they had a running back. That was the thing. It's like, Nick Chubb's good. I had him on my fantasy teams.

Nick Chubb is good. I had him on my fantasy teams. Nick Chubb is good. That guy was good. Somebody liked the Jets. Yeah. Can I give you the Le'Veon Bell ads? Yeah. Do you know who the favorites are?

I'm going to say, I'm going to say the Jets are number one. And then. They're tied for one with another team. That has won a Super Bowl this century that is in the NFC is it the that has a quarterback that Mallory despises

for off field reasons what what that has a fan base that screams ahoy after they score touchdowns the Tampa Bay Buccaneers oh for some reason Mallory was trying to figure out out of all the quarterbacks screams ahoy after they score touchdowns. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Oh.

For some reason, I was trying to figure out out of all the quarterbacks she despises. I was like, I hate so many quarterbacks. I thought you were, for some reason I thought this decade instead of this century. Six to one for them and the Jets. The Bucs.

That makes sense. You know who's not a good general manager? Tampa Bay's general manager. Who is that? Jason Light. Not good? Not good as Jeff? Not great.

Ravens are 7-1 now. Colts plus 750. So, Colts plus 750. The Colts are pretty fun for him. But would it have to be a trade or could he just

sign? No, he's gone. He's gone, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're not going to tag him. Colts are pretty fun for him. He doesn't have mileage on him. But he, you know, he set out last season.

He's had injury problems. He's had suspension problems. It's not like he's missed, you know, 16 games a year in his past. I mean, Kevin would just put every running back on the planet on a leper colony, so. I just think that there's just not a lot of guys who make a team better at the running back position.

What would you pay for Nick Foles? If I was if I was if I was the Jaguars, let's say I wouldn't go above 14. I would I'd get sort of the Case Keenum deal.

I'd be fine. Be fine for me. So then you'd you'd replace him with Joe Flacco in a year. I'd replace him with Joe Flacco in a year. What was that? What are we doing? What in a year? I would replace him with Joe Flacco in a year. What was that?

What are we doing? What are we doing? Every day I think about it, I feel better about it. I still can't believe it happened. I thought Roger did a nice job, that piece he wrote about Elway's, the QB stuff, about Elway gets credit for the Peyton Manning thing, but that was like a no-brainer.

I'm not sure he deserves credit for that. Where it's like all these teams watered him and he gave a list of the three teams he'd go to and Denver was one of the teams. Right. Well, also.

So I don't know if that goes in the wind. The runners up were like the Cardinals and the Titans and no one has ever accused those teams of being super savvy. Right.

So I just, he would, the whole thing is very strange. I mean, he lucked out with Peyton Manning, good for him, but he has not made a, he lucked out with Peyton Manning, good for him, but he has not made a good quarterback move since. That Peyton Manning team that won Super Bowl was very well built.

They had a lot of guys on great contracts. They got some bargains, but since then, it hasn't been great. Where do you want Foles to go? AKA Big Dick Nick. We need, we need in our lives on a good team so we can just make Big Dick Nick jokes. I think the Jags would be really fun. I could see a Washington pairing if not for the division

rivalry factor. Who's our writer in our NFL Slack who keeps posting the Alex Smith photos where he's wearing like the... Is it Riley? The leg... Is it Megan? I think Megan posted at least one of them. Where he's out and about on crutches and he has like the cast,

but it's like the metal around it. It's like those weird 1920s photos of like weird early medical devices. And you're like, what the hell is that? That guy's not going to play again. It's really upsetting. Yeah, I mean, Washington needs a quarterback. Absolutely.

I think with Foles, you would basically have to mirror whatever the Eagles were doing. You'd have to run the same— It would have to be a very specific clone of what the Eagles did for him to succeed. Well, I mean, I think that there's a lesson to be learned from what the Eagles did. And I think you can build an infrastructure around him where he's successful. I think that every team should learn what Nick Foles—

What the Eagles did with Nick Foles. Basically, they sat him down and were like, What are the players you like to run? And then they took everything else out of the playbook that wasn't that. And I just feel like we sit here and we just overcomplicate these offenses and stuff and what the Eagles do with Nick Foles is pretty admirable. I think you need talent around him.

I don't think he'd be that great with the Jaguars, but I just think that... I'm down on the Jaguars too. Hold on, I'm going to tell you the team I think he should go to. Is it the Patriots? Here's the answer for Nick Foles. I don't care where he goes because the Patriots have won six Super Bowls. That's my take.

Kyle, six, baby. Six. All this hatred is making us stronger. We've seen Foles' hands in big games. Ooh. Yeah.

So just stick him at tight end with the Patriots replaces Gronk. He probably has 400 yards. Is Gronk going to retire in the next two weeks

well Rosenhaus came out and said he's thinking he's thinking about next couple weeks free agency starts in what three weeks you know

do you know about the much scrutinized him and Belichick about to walk on the podium that whole that whole exchange they had

I'm not sure it's a big deal in the Patriots fan circle. Patriots Reddit? It felt a little goodbye-ish. Was it about, again, threatening him with a future with the Detroit Lions in order to try to get him to retire? It was like a thanks for everything kind of.

It felt like something you would say on your last day at work. It was upsetting. What's Gronk's next move? WWE? WWE. Are we sure that the guy with the bad back can get body slammed? I think you use him the way you use Brock Lesnar. It's somewhere between Lesnar and Rousey,

how you're using him like 20 times a year and very carefully. Are we sure he has a bad back still? Does that ever go away, Mr. Bad Back? I don't know. I think two-thirds of the people in the world have a bad back still? Does that ever go away, Mr. Bad Back? I don't know. I think like two-thirds of the people in the world have a bad back. Kyle probably has

a bad back. I know, but Tate does. Well, Tate has a legit bad back. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know what Gronk's going to do.

I mean, I thought he might retire last year. I just think that he's going to entertain us and stay in our lives probably more than we think. I think that's one phone call from Brady.

To say stay? Stay home? I think he just wants than we think. I think that's one phone call from Brady. To say stay? Stay home? I think he just wants to be loved. I think he's still a little hurt from the trade. I think he just needs his back rubbed a little bit. I mean, the big issue for the Patriots right now, because we've won six Super Bowls, is our owner is off the rails.

Our owner was at the All-Star game with a big diamond champion's necklace pendant thing. Did you see that? I did. Like he's turned into the Rodney Dangerfield back to school character. But like, this is just who he is every day. He's going to every party and he acts like he's 30 years old. I was in bed at All-Star weekend before Bob Craft.

How does he do it, Mallory? I shudder to think. I really shudder to think. There's never been any... The best moment of my life was when you said her name and not mine at the end of that question. I have no thoughts on this. You have no thoughts on Bob Craft at all?

No thoughts on Bob Craft. Anything else we're going to cover football-wise? That's it, right? That's all the big stories? No more trades? No more big moves? Yeah. I mean.

Gearing up for free agency. We have the combine coming up. We have the combine. So that'll be exciting. We got Kyler Murray going, but not doing drills. Right. I never gave you guys my Kyler Murray take. As you know, I don't follow college football.

I can't wait for this. But I still have takes. Let's hear them. Too short. Well, he doesn't get his passes batted down. Too short. He can climb the pocket. Guess what?

We were there for Doug Flutie. He was amazing in the 80s. Too short. Incredible talent. We really wanted it to happen. Too short. Are the Oakland A's paying you to put this out into the world? He's too short.

You can't have a 5'8 quarterback. It's not working. Here's where I come in off Common Sense Mountain, and I just land. I'm like, hey, guys, Kyler Murray's too short. And then we're done. And then I climb back up, and I parachute back up to the top of the mountain.

Can I ask you a question? With the other people at Common Sense. I say this with no malice. Yeah. Genuinely just curious. Have you ever watched a single Tyler Murray game? I saw some YouTube. I saw some YouTube of him. Of him

doing what? He played 85% in the pocket last year. I'm blind out on 5'8 and under quarterbacks. I'm just out. For what it's worth, he will say he's 5'9 if that makes a difference. 5'9, I'm out too. Flutie was 5'9. What's your cutoff?

5-9. Because Flutie was incredible. He had a cannon arm. He was ingenious and nobody could ever figure out how to terminate a football. By the way, like five teams tried.

He was in the league for 13 years. Including the Patriots. Including the Patriots. You don't understand when he took over for Tony Eason, that was like one of the underrated great moments in Patriots fan history. Everybody wanted it.

It was like, finally, the Messiah is here, Doug Flutie. And it was bad. So you opt in in general to the trend of younger quarter, or shorter quarterbacks in the league, obviously Drew Brees, Russell Wilson. But at some point you were too short. Too short. Yeah.

I think it seems like I would, how tall is Wilson? Like 5'11". 5 11 5 11 5 10 like that once you're getting to 5 8 that's just tiny plus on top of it guys falling on him and all the terrible things that can happen i don't personally worry about his height just because he is he is so unbelievably dynamic and gifted when you watch him it's like this guy has to be able to succeed he just seems like he has to be the body type is more of the thing for me. He's so small. Like I think he will, I think he should be drafted high in the first round. And I think he will be really electric and fun to watch and good, but that is a more reasonable concern to me than the height. I don't know. I mean, well, this is a very important point, but I'm still going to root for him and I

hope I'm wrong I just personally if my team spent a first round pick on a 5-8 quarterback I would fucking go nuts can I play I'm gonna play devil's advocate here though

I just think that if there's any era in which one hit knocking a quarterback out doesn't matter it's this era where you can't hit quarterbacks

I mean like he will not get hit he will get hit less than any quarterback in history because that's that's what happens when you enter the league in 2019 instead of 2003. What do you think, Kyle?

I think that's a good point. Thank you, Kyle. That's a pretty good point. Didn't like my Aaron Hernandez point, but liked my Kyle O'Brien one. Your Aaron Hernandez point was terrible. What about when he's running, though? When he's scrambling?

Like, not hits that he's taking in the pocket, but when he's just trying to create. Yeah, I mean, I think that he played, as Lincoln Riley came out and he told Peter King this week, and he played from the pocket more than anybody thinks. Around 85% and most of his throws are from there. So I think that there will be times

that he leaves the pocket, but I think that's just about him learning to play really, really smart. And he can do that. And if you, again, by the way, if you hit a player outside the pocket, you know, when they're out of bounds, that's still a penalty. So it's still, quarterbacks are still very, very coddled. I'm pro-Pyler. I'm going to do a 180 on my point, even though I believe in my point.

I really hope he makes it because it would be really fun to have a 5'8 quarterback. I want him to end up. As you know, I love weird, I love the quarterback position when there's just a lot of, it's eclectic. There's this guy and this guy and this tall guy and this little guy and this guy scrambles. He's thrilling to watch.

He's thrilling to watch. I hope he makes it. I want him on the Giants. I want him and Odell and Saquon on the same offense. That's my fever dream. If he goes to the Giants, what position does he play from? Because Eli Manning is all-time starter for them. Come on.

It's time to move on from Eli Manning. Listen, it was time to move on in 2015, but here we are. I think we're going to have the... After 2016, rather. What happened with Joe Flacco last year is what's going to

happen with Eli this year if they're smart and invest in a new quarterback. All right, here's 10 through 20. Denver's 10. LA's not taking a 5-8 guy. They're out. Could you imagine?

Cincinnati's 11. Green Bay 12, no. Miami 13. That's where Danny Kelly had him going in our mock draft. Green Bay, 12. No. Miami, 13. That's where Danny Kelly had him going in our mock draft. Atlanta, 14. No. Washington, 15.

I can see that. You're right. He is going to go in the 10 to 20 range. Carolina, 16. Cleveland, 17. Minnesota, 18. Tennessee, 19. Pittsburgh, 20.

I don't know. I'm pro-Josh Rosen, but I'm not rolling out this Arizona Cardinals possibility. I'm really not. Cliff Kingsbury is obsessed with Kyler. Why are you pro Josh Rosen? Chosen Rosen? Yeah, why? What did you see his rookie year that you're like, I'm pro Josh Rosen?

It's all for me what I saw his freshman year at UCLA. Much like how I still think about- Christian Hackenberg? Christian Hackenberg's freshman year at Penn State. Christian Hackenberg. You know I love a one-time promising high school and then college quarterback prospect I think that Hackenberg and Rosen both had these things.

So there were like very, very few good young quarterbacks for like seven years there. And so for a while in college football, it was just, oh my God, here comes the next chosen one. And it was always like Hackenberg was like that, Rosen was like that. And we overrated these guys just because we were desperate for the next Andrew one. And it was always like Hackenberg was like that. Rosen was like that. And we overrated these guys just because we were desperate

for the next Andrew Luck. Never happened. The story about Josh Rosen correcting the Elite 11 playbook is for me that that'll keep the torch. Then Sunshine Ronnie Bass came to Clemson. Lawrence, Trevor Lawrence.

Yeah, he's incredible. He's not draft eligible for two years, right? Yeah, he was a true freshman. Mallory, who are your five most handsome quarterbacks of all time? Number one, Jimmy Garoppolo. yeah he's incredible he's not draft eligible for two years right yeah he was a true freshman this year Mallory who are your five most handsome quarterbacks of all time

ooh number one Jimmy Garoppolo yeah number one wow she said that so fast yeah I know he's really

like she'd been waiting her whole life for somebody to ask her he's just he's extremely handsome it's like it's almost unbelievable I'd have to think about

that's why Brady had to get rid of him Brady's very handsome he's obviously Brady's handsome but he was like I it's almost unbelievable. I'd have to think about that. That's why Brady had to get rid of him. Brady's very handsome. He's obviously insufferable. Brady's handsome, but he was like, I gotta get rid of this guy. I'd have to give the list some thought. I'm not prepared to go off the dome for it. That's a serious question. Is Flacco in the top five? What? Handsome guy.

Top five all time? For you. Handsome. Handsome guy, Joe Flacco. He's a handsome guy, but no, certainly not. That's... Darnold's not handsome guy, but no, certainly not. Darnold's not in the top five. I'm not going to comment. What else will we work out with the NFL?

Anything? Combine? Combine, then we'll hit free agency. The Antonio Brown saga, free agency. We're not far away from the draft, though. Here's the draft. If Clowney isn't tagged, there could be some good free agents. If he is, it could be kind of a crappy year I was sad that Julius Peppers retired

I really enjoyed the Julius Peppers era I liked when he came into the league and it was like this guy we've never seen an athlete like at this position it was just fun now I feel like I'm old that he's retiring yeah I don't like it

because I felt like I was old when he came into the league I feel like that with D's retiring. Yeah, I don't like it. Because I felt like I was old when he came to the league and I was excited for him. I feel like that with Dwayne Wade right now. Yeah, it's tough. I don't like it. How old are you now? I'm 32. It's tough when the guys in your age range

are at the tail end and you kind of look in the mirror. Makes you think about life. I mean, Ken and I are the same age. The one thing I don't recommend is getting into soccer because those guys are done at 29. Yeah, they're done at like 24. Yeah, and you're just like, what? Everybody who's good now was born in like 2001.

Yeah. Just like, this isn't good. I remember my guy was Ken Griffey. We had the same birthday. Oh. And it was like junior. Andrew McCutcheon and I.

19 year old center fielder. And then it, then went to the Reds. It's like, oh, Ken Griffey's getting old. Then it was like, all right,

Ken Griffey's old. This sucks. Yeah. Got to stop calling him the kid at a certain point. I will say the good news about the Wade retirement is he's not bringing it up

or bringing attention to it at all. Yeah, he's been very discreet. He's been very discreet. It's been a great job. He's not shoving it in our faces, so I haven't really had to face my own mortality. It's been a great job.

Thanks for coming on the podcast. Of course. Thanks for having us. Appreciate it. We'll see where AB goes. I say Niners. All right, we're going to talk to Chris Ryan in a second.

First, did you know not all alcohol products are required to list their ingredients? That was news to me. Bud Light is changing the game. They believe that we deserve to know our beer's ingredients. So they put an ingredients label right on their packaging. Bud Light brewed with hops, barley, water, and rice. No corn syrup, no preservatives, no artificial flavors.

Find out what ingredients are in your beer, Bud Light. Enjoy responsibly. AB Bud Light Beer, St. Louis, Missouri. Here's a little insider travel secret from our friends at Hotel Tonight. There are tons of empty hotel rooms out there just waiting to be booked. Hotel Tonight has partnered with these awesome hotels to help them sell their unsold rooms, which means you get incredible deals. Forget scrolling through never-ending lists. Hotel Tonight shows you a select list of incredible deals at cool hotels. They think you'll love short profiles of each hotel, all the info you need, pictures of what the rooms really look like. You can arrange it by price, high price down to low or budget deals,

luxury deals, whatever you want. Hotel Tonight, it is a great app that they keep improving over and over again. Perfect for spontaneous weekend getaways, three-day weekends, business trips, 24-hour trips with your daughter if she plays club soccer. To start scoring amazing deals in incredible hotels, go to hoteltonight.com or download the app right now.

All right, we're taping this Wednesday during the day. It's running late Wednesday night because there's no urgency, because there's no NBA. Chris Ryan is here. We have Sean Fennessey coming up a little bit later, as well as Kevin Clark and Mally Rubin. We're going to be talking about football and basketball. Chris Ryan here right now.

We ran a piece today called the NBA Take Meter, the stretch run, which I thought was smart. And the takes were stuff like the Lakers will miss the playoffs. Right, and then we rated those takes with a variety of feelings of confidence. Like, how confident are you in this take? The Lakers are favored now

to miss the playoffs. Yeah. Which I did. I actually put together a little document because Sal and House and I were trying to decide who to bet on to miss the playoffs. I love that you're spending your free time this way. Yeah, it was late at night.

They were, I'm sorry, yes to make the playoffs plus 125, no to make the playoffs minus 145. Since December 10th, they're 11 and 19. So wait, your free time, you spend basically watching Sopranos

and putting together Google Docs about gambling. Maybe doing both of those at the same time. You're really, the depravity is settling in now. Well,

here's the other thing. The Kings were plus 400 to make the playoffs. Uh-huh. The Kings, since January 7th, they're 11-7.

They just traded for Harrison Barnes. They have no incentive to lose since they don't have their first-round pick. And I actually think with the style they play and the energy they have at home and stuff, it's the kind of team that's going to get better the last couple months. Yeah.

I thought that was crazy. Talk about bias against a team, right? Where it's like on the one hand, you have LeBron. It's like, oh, LeBron, he's the best. Then Sacramento, it's like, oh, they stink. But just looking at the rosters, how would anybody think the Lakers

are going to make the playoffs over Sacramento? What do you think? I also think that the Lakers just have like a catastrophically bad defense without Lonzo. Yeah. When does he come back? A couple weeks. I think he's practicing. Maybe he's getting close. the Lakers just have like a catastrophically bad defense without Lonzo. Yeah. You know, when does he come back?

A couple, a couple of weeks. I think he's practice. Maybe he's getting, getting close. I'm not really sure when he gets back, but they, but that corresponds with also,

we got our first like, well, you know, LeBron's groin isn't all the way better yet. Stories, you know? Yeah. That groin is just,

well, electro, electrolysis it so much. Seemed okay in the all-Star game, though. Yeah, it seemed fine. Do the Lakers miss the playoffs? I think that they do, yeah. I think that they do.

I think that this is like... I don't see how you flip a switch with this team of kind of like the rejects and the kids. It's going to be really hard for him to do it. Maybe he, quote unquote, gets healthy. And a coach that's in trouble. What's Luke really coaching for here?

You know what I mean? Is he trying to save his job? Is he trying to teach the kids? Is he trying to keep LeBron happy? Can you do all three at once? The case for it would be he did this last year and he flipped the switch and got them through it.

We ran a piece by Zach Cram this week about the best players to miss the playoffs. And the best player who ever missed the playoffs was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar until this season if LeBron doesn't make it.

But Kareem in 75 and 76 didn't make it either year. His last Bucs season they'd made the finals the year before. And Oscar Robertson, I think, retired. And then Lucia Salon got hurt. They had no point guard. They ended up going like 38 and 44.

And he was putting up like 30 and 15 every day. It was basically like a Pelican situation. And then the Lakers traded for him that summer. But they traded basically all of their assets. So he goes to the Lakers, doesn't make it again. So he missed the playoffs two years in a row in his prime. He was the third best player of all time.

I think LeBron's second. I've basically netted out it. I don't think they're going to make the playoffs if they make the playoffs or if they get like the seven seats somehow, I think they could go to the conference finals. You know, like once he's in the playoffs, I think all bets are off. And they have three point shooting. You know, like once he's in the playoffs, I think all bets are off. And they have three-point shooting.

You could argue maybe there's some, another buyout guy that we don't know that might be coming at some point. I think they're pretty flawed defensively though. It is really easy to score 128 against them. If he's not aggressive, yeah. It's like, you just saw that. And I mean, I know that they were sagging a lot

in the Sixers game, for instance, but that was just like there was a playground defending going on there. I've seen better defending in pickup games honestly. Alright so we both think they're going to miss the playoffs. The second the second one, the second take from the take meter was that

if James Harden averages 37 a game he's the MVP. So the thing that's at stake for him is the non-center scoring record of all time, which is held by MJ. MJ's like 37-something. He has a chance to have the greatest scoring season anyone's ever had. Windhorst today, our friend Brian Windhorst,

wrote a piece about Giannis versus Harden, how this was becoming the subplot of All-Star Weekend. People arguing about Giannis as the traditional two-way player. Yeah, that's the basketball I was taught to play. Super valuable. And then Harden is the, I just put everyone else on my back for us to make the playoffs. And it's like a great old school MVP argument.

I personally think the Bucs are going to end up winning 63 to 64 games. If you look at their schedule, if you look at their point differential, if you just look at the way they've been handling their business, they have a chance to win 30 road games, which is really impressive. And then they're in a conference where like six teams are tanking by, you know, March, April.

Right. Whereas Houston, I don't really see a roadmap for them to get to even the four seed. It really seems like maybe they get to four seed, but they're definitely not going to be top three seed. They're probably going to finish around 48, 49 wins. And I don't think what he's doing is sustainable. And I don't think he wants it to be sustainable. He started to make noises

about that. Now in this day and age, of course, you get really freaked out whenever something like this happens. But Harden was basically talking about like, he has to do this because of like the situation he finds himself in. It's a burden. And then there was that video that basically like showed up online of,

I think it was Steph talking to Bud. Yeah. Coach of the Bucks. And Steph says that Harden told him, I kind of wish I could just play in like a beautiful basketball system, but this is what we are, the situation I find myself in. I have to take this load myself.

I'm in an unassisted assist situation. Right. I think he settles it around 36. Because part of the thing with the Rockets, Capella comes back, I think tomorrow night. They have to get Chris Paul going. They have to figure out

when Chris gets switched on big guys, can he consistently destroy them like he was doing the last couple of years? And Harden's got to sacrifice some of that offense. So I think he tails off a little and I think Giannis ascends. And I think at some point we're going to look at this and go, wow, the Bucks have a chance to go 64

and 18 holy shit people will start writing about them historically as a top 15 team what happens if Paul George has a March like the February he just had I think it's already a win for Paul George being in the

2017 Kawhi spot of award season where like Zach Lowe shout out to Zach, Zach will pick him for MVP Being in the 2017 Kawhi spot of award season. Yeah. Where like Zach Lowe, shout out to Zach. Zach will pick him for MVP. Yeah. He's the best two-way player in the world. Like he's already won.

Okay. Yeah, he's won. He's going to be the critically acclaimed MVP candidate. Take three on the take meter was the Sixers are the best team in the East. I don't believe this. I think it's ludicrous. I don't want to talk about it. Take four, Al Horford, the most valuable Celtic. Let's not wait. We're not going to

talk about the Sixers, but we're going to spend time talking about whether Al Horford is the best. I will blow by this too. Al Horford, the most valuable Celtic. I felt that way last year. I felt that way this year. I feel that way right now. Yes. They need him in the playoffs more than any other player. They can patch anything together except for if Al Horford isn't there.

Do your Kyrie thing. I just want him to stop talking. Yeah. So we just like this today as we recorded the Rachel Nichols interview came out. Five minute interview talking about how hard the season's been and the young guys and just shut up. Stop talking. Doesn't help anyone.

Really? Stop. This is not like a shut up and dribble. This is just like a stop talking. You't help anyone. Really? Stop. This is not like a shut up and dribble. This is just like a stop talking. You're not helping. Guess what? Nobody wants to hear yet another rant about how hard the season's been. The season's not hard.

You're getting paid $25 million a year. You're in a top five team. What's hard about this? Jalen Brown's upset. He only got six shots in a game. This is like traumatizing. Shut up. That's my take.

Good. Thanks. I just wanted to hear that. Leadership is not every two weeks. I'm going to throw under the bus. Everyone under 23 who's playing for me. Yeah. And talk about how they just don't get it.

By the way, play pretty well when you're not there. Yeah. By the way, he's only three years older than him. Yeah. So man, these young guys. Yeah. It's like, you're 26 there. By the way, he's only three years older than him. So, man, these young guys. It's like, you're 26.

You don't know anything. You were at Duke for a year. Whether it experienced as Kyrie Irving had, because you were in a couple finals. Stop talking. Anyway. Oh, that's it for the takeover.

I backed you into that one. You really did. Well, you love this. Me? I'm at the point now where on July 1st, I'm happy to be in a black town car driving Kyrie to the airport. Before the Sixers game last week,

I believe you said, I've moved on to the Red Sox. I did. Yes. I still love the Celtics. Okay. You know. Yeah. I love. Yes. I still love the Celtics. Okay. You know, I love that team. I just feel like some people are not meant to be leaders.

And that's just the way it is. And unfortunately, Kyrie's one of those people. I think Kyrie might agree with you now. I think that that's sort of where this is all coming from. I mean, you could make the argument that all of this is the breadcrumb trail for him to leave Boston. That this is why he's not comfortable there because there's too many people there who want too much of the pie. But I think ultimately he had his run as

the team leader and it's not suiting him. And now he's going to go share it with another guy of his... So you think there's some sabotage here for him? He's like the guy in a relationship who's being mean to his college girlfriend because he really wants to just break up? So what do we have as evidence so far?

There's the Gordon Hayward final shot thing where he flipped out on court, right? I mean, there's honestly been six interviews. And then multiple interviews where he's just like, I had to call LeBron to apologize because it's so hard for him. That was the craziest. I had to call LeBron to apologize

because now that I'm in the same situation he was in where he's got these dumb young guys who think they know everything I had to call LeBron to apologize because now that I'm in the same situation he was in, where he's got these dumb young guys who think they know everything. And I was that dumb young guy once. I honestly- So I called him for advice. This is the closest I've ever felt to being Daniel Caffey and you're Nathan Jessup. I just know you want to say you ordered the code red. I love watching Kyrie.

Yeah. I just think some people aren't meant to be leaders. And it's funny. It's become this huge polarizing thing with the Celtic fan base. And some people are saying they're better off without him than other people. Like, that's insane. Look at the efficiency numbers. I think they're absolutely better off with him.

But he has to figure out how to just kind of fit in as the best guy on the team that's also not overpowering everyone else on the team, on the court and off the court. I love Al Horford. She's a great guy. You know who's not giving interviews about the young Celtics? Al Horford. What has Al Horford said this year?

Man, these young guys, they just got to get their shit together. Can we talk about Donahue really fast? Sure. You got to go for it. So, as we're talking fantasy entered, because we're about to redo the 2014 Oscars, just briefly wanted to mention this Donahue story

that ESPN broke last week, where they spent two years studying all the games that he ref, not just in 06 or 07. This was a couple days ago, right? Yeah. But going back, like basically a four-year pattern where they investigated it and found out he'd been gambling, all this stuff.

And there were two revelations in there. First of all, I was not surprised at all to hear that he was betting on games because everybody knew that who knew anything. The thing that shocked me was how the NBA handled it. And that was like the hidden thing in this piece that I don't want to say people miss because it was out there a little bit, but basically the FBI went to the NBA and said, we have this guy. We think this happened. And we want to proceed with a bigger, deeper investigation. We want him to wear a wire. At this point, it was top secret.

Four weeks later, the story gets leaked that Donahue is being investigated. And in this piece, the FBI side is basically like, we think the NBA leaked it. It wasn't going to come out. They leaked it because they didn't want us to investigate the other refs. I thought that was shocking. I couldn't believe it because...

All right, so why would the NBA do that? This is where Chris barely read the story, and he's staring at me. Why would the NBA do that though? Alright. Either A, they just don't want their other referees to get investigated. Or B, they just want the story to go away

and paint him as a rogue official. Which is what happened over the next year. Basically they started with the premise this guy was a rogue official who was acting alone. Had debts. And he was a bad guy and he's a liar and then let's

let's kind of sweep this under the rug and it does feel like this was swept under the rug a little bit and I was really surprised that ESPN wrote that story when we are now

in this era of nobody wants to piss off their partners they spent two years investigating what I think is like the third rail for the NBA

because in retrospect what? we would have to go back and like reevaluate investigating what I think is like the third rail for the NBA. Because in retrospect, what? We would have to go back and like re-evaluate some of the games that he did? Yeah, he was in playoff games. And also like how, so one of the things that that story covered was just how easy it is for a referee to fix a game. Yes. If they really wanted to. And this was the lesson of this Donahue thing,

which is one of his tricks in the story was that he called an illegal defense early in the game. Because if you call it early,

then you can basically call it whenever you want as the game goes along. And it also makes teams act a little differently. Said how, you know, get somebody in foul trouble,

two quick fouls in 40 seconds yeah that was another one of his tricks pointed out this Andre Iguodala game where he did that also talked about

how he would talk to the other refs about certain things he wanted to push forward and kind of like Jedi mind trick the refs on we got a Shaq's getting away

with that elbow we got to call that this game and then just the the sheer magnitude of the calls that he was making where they did, it was like he was 23 and four where it was just completely unrealistic how one-sided it was. Right. So I think it was a worthy time to write this piece where in 2019, as we head into the next decade

and sports gambling is becoming a bigger and bigger thing. Like this is something we kind of have to worry about a little bit here, not just referees, but like long snappers and back judges in football. And, you know, a left-handed reliever who's going to pitch to one batter and who makes $220,000

a year in game five of the world series. And this, this is why it took so long for gambling to become legal. It's a major issue in Europe and European soccer. Oh my God, in tennis?

Yeah, where gambling is much more pervasive and you can make bets on basically any corner of a European city on any game you want. And it's a big issue. What's been the biggest

scandal in soccer? I mean, there's a lot of suspicious stuff and there's a lot of stuff What's been the biggest scandal in soccer? I mean, there's a lot of suspicious stuff and there's a lot of stuff that's rumored. I guess the... Gosh, I mean, there's a bunch of stuff with Italy. There's a lot of Italy stuff where there's been huge scandals.

There was also something really weird recently where a team got beat 20-0 in a Serie B or Serie C game. And it was just very suspicious. And they fielded seven players or something. Oh, Jesus. It was some weird thing. They always thought tennis was the easiest one to fix

because people just bet tennis every day, 52 weeks a year. It's always on. There's always games and more games and more games and more games or matches. And it's just so easy to tweak an outcome in tennis. Like, oh, I hurt my calf. Oh, I have to resign in the second set. Or, oh, you basically could tank three points in a set. It's individual pressure rather than depending on team pressure.

Golf doesn't make sense to fix because, you know, how would you? Unless somebody was betting, will you make the cut or not but that would be if somebody's betting a million dollars on that that becomes suspicious right basketball

I mean Donahue I have in my page 2 archives in 07 he reffed some of those Sun Spurs games and there was one game that was so egregiously officiated

that I actually I did like a blog post the day after and I put all three officials names in the post. And Donahue was one of the names. And it was like, this is so bad. This will go down in history as one. And it's like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And Tim Donahue. Wow. And this was during the year that he fixed the game. So it's like, shit. So I, this is the third rail for the NBA. They, this is the is the three things for them are Kobe's trial

Donahue and the Artest melee are the the the three headed Mount Rushmore of things the NBA hopes never comes up again

so I was really surprised that East Penn wrote this yeah it was fascinating that it came up I mean it was very specifically placed during this dead period

of the season after the All-Star game before the games start back up again people are just sitting around waiting for stuff to happen and this drops. So if Soderbergh

was doing High Flying Bird 2 but it was about a rogue referee fixing NBA games, is that your all-time wheelhouse movie? Yeah, who would play Donnie? It's like Forget Paris

crossed with... I always felt like Chris Parnell could play Tim Donnie. Chris Parnell? Is he too old now? Yeah, probably, but he looks a little bit like him.

What about Chris Pratt? No. No. No. He'd be like, because he needed to be heroic. Think about that. If you have any suggestions for who should play Donnie in the movie. All right, we're going to take a break. Coming up, a redo of the 2014 Oscars.

All right, Sean's coming in to do the five-year Oscars. First, getting tickets online can be far too complicated with hundreds of sites and varying levels of reliability. Hard to know who to trust. As you know, SeatGeek, the way to go. They put millions of tickets in one place. You can easily find the seats you want for a price you're willing to pay.

Designed to make your ticket buying experience easier than ever by searching multiple ticket sites, grading every ticket based on value. SeatGeek helps you immediately identify the best seats that fit your budget. Every purchase fully guaranteed. Oh yeah. You can shop for tickets on SeatGeek with confidence.

I have the SeatGeek app on my phone. I've had it for years. I check it sometimes just because I'm a weirdo. I like to see. I was in Sundance. I didn't even want to go to a jazz game. I was just curious how many people have their tickets for jazz games on SeatGeek. And I looked and there was like nobody because people in Utah are lunatics and they just

want to go to jazz games. Other times you'll be surprised not only what the deals are, but SeatGeek has the color coded maps. You can look for the darker ones are always good. Like that's a great, you're getting a great deal. Just enjoyable. They do a good job. My listeners get $10 off their first SeatGeek purchase.

All you have to do is download the SeatGeek app, enter promo code BS today. Again, promo code BS for $10 off your first SeatGeek purchase. SeatGeek, life is an event and we have the tickets. All right, we do this every year, right around Oscars time. It's a tradition that goes back to the late 1980s. Me, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey on this podcast. Back in the 80s.

We were doing this podcast in the late 1980s? Yeah. Okay, cool. I don't know any better. I was 11. We had this idea back in Grantland, the five-year Oscars, which was basically everyone complains about the Oscars. There's too reactionary.

The PR pressure and all that stuff can sway it. You really need a couple years to sit back, almost like with the Hall of Fame in baseball. You need the five years to really, let's take a breath. Let's really reassess what happened here? And we thought with the Oscars, they should hand out the Oscars five years later instead of right after because then we would really have a chance to think about how we felt about this movie as the years pass, re-watching it,

noticing things maybe we didn't notice the first, second, or third passes and so on. So we're going to do this with the 2014 Oscars, which was the 2013 movie season. Good movie year. Was it? It left me cold. I would say it's a good movie year

beyond the stuff that was nominated for Oscars. There's a bunch of stuff in there that I'm a fan of. Yeah, I would say this podcast next year is going to be awesome because 2014 was a great movie year. 2013 is a cool movie year, but a bad Oscars year, I would say. It left me cold. So here are the winners for the audience listening at home.

12 Years a Slave won for Best Picture. Matthew McConaughey won for Dallas Buyers Club. That is not age well. Cate Blanchett for Blue Jasmine. Sure. Jared Letoanchett for Blue Jasmine. Sure. Jared Leto for Dallas Buyers Club. That has not aged well. And Lupita Nyong'o, 12 Years a Slave.

That's aged nicely. Alfonso Cuaron, one for Gravity, best director. And then Frozen, one for best animated, which I think out of all this has aged the best because everybody loves Frozen. I have an announcement to make that I'm going to be doing a breakaway rewatchables that's just about the Croods.

It's going to be... Not a lot of legacy on the Croods. That's funny. Best Picture had nine nominees and I can't believe five of them were in this category. 12 Years a Slave won it, American Hustle, Captain Phillips, Dallas Buyers Club, Gravity, Her, Nebraska, Philomena, and The Wolf of Wall Street. How many of those are you good with five years later?

12 Years a Slave, Gravity, Her. Good with Her. And The Wolf of Wall Street. That's it. You'd bump everyone else. I think Captain Phillips is a pretty nifty movie. I think it's really well made and actually fun to watch despite the gravity of its storyline.

These other movies are traditional classic like Oscar bait ish movies and I don't think they're very effective or memorable Nebraska I didn't really like when it happened but it was during the Alexander Payne everything he was doing everybody was just excited about we're still in that moment except for downsizing Alexander I think that's eyes and killed the Yeah, I just think he hasn't been... I don't know. I mean, there was a lot of love for The Descendants,

and there was some love for the earlier movies, like Election and Citizen Ruth, but I don't think he was ever fully, properly recognized. Did About Schmidt get nominations beyond Nicholson? Some writing nominations. And Sideways obviously got nominated for Best Picture, too. You're right, Bill. There was a time when he just... If he put a movie And Sideways obviously got nominated for Best Picture too.

So you're right, Bill. There was a time when he just, if he put a movie out, it was getting nominated for Best Picture. So you're okay with her. That's a movie I would never watch again.

I love that movie. Okay. I think it's a little, it doesn't have a strong legacy because Spike Jonze hasn't made a movie since. So he's not, he isn't creating like this arc

over his career. He was working on the Viceland Network. Yeah. You know, he's made commercials. He won a Director's Guild Award this year for directing an Apple commercial. But if he had put out,

let's say he'd made two movies like the way that Cuaron did or Scorsese or somebody in that time, he'd be like Spike Jonze. He's one of the 20 best living filmmakers in the world. But we don't think of him that way as much now. So her doesn't have a strong legacy. What do you think, Chris?

So are you asking me which movies I still stick with or which movies I... Yeah, which ones would you bump? Oh, I would bump... Like some whammies. Philomena, I would get rid of. Dallas, I think, has not aged well. And I mean, American Hustle is fascinating, but

is not, I don't think, a very good movie. That was kind of like an NBA All-Star game type of situation. Just a lot of people, everybody liked making a weird movie and people were like, cool. There's just like five too many choices made in that movie and I was watching a little bit of it last night and Cooper

is doing some stuff there but he's also like, I have to have a perm and an accent and I gotta live with my mom. And it's just like, there's just too much stuff happening. You have to have a perm and an accent and I got to live with my mom. And it's just like, there's just too much stuff happening. It's like, you can't have a comb over and Bradley Cooper with a perm

and people doing five different accents and then Renner. You know what I mean? Like there's just too much. I forgot Jeremy Renner was in that movie. Yeah. I think it's funny. And Lawrence.

Like a movie like that, I think people just appreciate that it happened. It's an actor showcase. Yeah. It's like, oh, that was fun. And Lawrence. Like a movie like that, I think people just appreciate that it happened. It's an actor showcase. Yeah. It's like, oh, that was fun. Thanks, guys. Yeah. It's not a very...

Good effort. It's not rewatchable, I would say. It's also not... It's like the fifth best movie for everybody involved, which is never a good thing. You know, you want people kind of at their peak. And it's not Bale at his peak. It's not Amy Adams at his peak.

It's not David O. Russell at his peak. Like, it's just not any of those figures. So I don't know. It's a little bit of a Frankenstein together thing that just feels like very Scorsese over here and very Cameron Crowe over here. And there's just a lot of pulling from a lot of different sources that never totally comes together. I'm okay.

I mean, 12 Years a Slave absolutely should be in this. I'm okay with American Hustle. Captain Phillips is weird. it's weird that that got nominated for an Oscar have you seen it a second time it was good I mean it's Paul Greengrass

who's a very respected filmmaker and it's Tom Hanks doing a movie star part it was good I loved that movie I saw it multiple times Mission Impossible Fallout

was really good too that didn't get nominated that's fucking bullshit that it wasn't nominated but that's what I don't get. It's like, if we're going to nominate that, then Mission Impossible

absolutely should have made it this year. That movie was amazing. One thing's a docudrama based on a true story about real people and a real conflict and Somali pirates was a very hot story

in international news a few years before this movie came out. And Mission Impossible Fallout is about guys wearing masks. So like, why do we take things seriously and other things not is always up for debate.

But I do know why Fallout isn't nominated and this was nominated. Fallout should have been nominated. I agree. You agree with that? Yeah, Fallout should have been nominated. Well, relative to the other stuff

we're looking at, you know? I'm just, there's so many mediocre movies. But I don't think that there's anything wrong with Captain Phillips being nominated. I thought it was an excellent movie. Yeah. It was really good.

Yeah. I just, I guess I don't know what the line is with sometimes when they pick this stuff. Because to me it's like, there's like two or three Captain Phillips type movies every year, or at least one. And sometimes they get nominated

and sometimes they don't. Like, they're kind of action thrillers. They're just really well done action thrillers with good actors. And sometimes that matters and sometimes that doesn't. There's no rhyme or reason to it. Dallas Buyers Club, I didn't really like when it happened. And I felt like McConaughey lost a lot of weight for it. And that became, and McConaughey was having a moment

and people just liked him. And it was like, cool. So McConaughey is a serious actor and this is great. And I just don't think that movie has aged well. And I don't think we'll speak of it, you know, really at all 20 years from now. No, but it did launch John Mark Vale's career to some extent

and he's become like quietly one of the most important filmmakers just because of what he does in television as well. Like even if he's not your bag, like he, that guy gets like a lot of stuff on screen that, and I think Big Little Lies and Sharp Objects have changed the

trajectory of HBO in some ways and it's really fascinating to see where he's going with his career Sean? It's a very similar story to Captain Phillips, it's based on a true story and it's based, am I getting that right? Yeah, definitely. It's based on a real guy's life Oh, 100% it is

I think there's obviously a lot of complications around the gender dynamics and who gets to play what kind of character in the world that's a little bit more fraught with the Jared Leto thing. And that potentially is not going to age well. But even aside from that stuff, John Mark Vallee has this very beautiful impressionistic style of movie making, but it doesn't make for highly rewatchable movies. So the more time goes by, the less likely you are to return to it. He made Wild right after this, the Reese Witherspoon movie, which was also at the time was praised and based on a beloved true story

written by Cheryl Strayed. There's something kind of ephemeral about the movie itself. It's not involving. It's just a showcase. And a lot of Oscar movies are like that. They're just showcases for people doing stuff. And Matthew McConaughey and Jared Leto,

they're such showy performances. You know, there's nothing subtle about this movie at all. It's like somebody is sick and somebody is in a crazy costume and somebody is doing an accent they've never done before. And that's just like, that's what Oscars always rewards. Well, I don't like it that much. I thought the movie was worth watching. Yeah, of course.

And it was good. And McConaughey's really good in it. It's okay. I mean, it's just, it's a tradition. It's a classical Oscar movie that, like you say, just is not going to have a lot of memory

five years from now. I feel like your gravity take is going to be like your Kyrie take. I'm getting ready for it. The Kyrie thing was not a take. So what's your gravity take? You don't, you don't lead people by constantly complaining about them.

I'm sorry. It's not a take. That's a fact. Interesting. Gravity. I really liked, and I think it's aged well. I liked it in the moment.

I like seeing big stars and really well done movies. And, uh, I was okay with it. I unambiguously love this movie. Yeah. Like I just think it's like technical achievement, movie star performance, great story. It's fucking cool.

It's a constant how are they doing this movie. Really awesome reason to go to a movie theater. You're like, oh wow, how'd they do that? How'd they do this? I haven't watched it

that many times since it came out. I just remember being absolutely blown away by watching it. Such a't watched it that many times since it came out. I just remember being absolutely blown away. Such a good movie theater movie. It's good. How can you watch Gravity and be like, it's good? Well, it's truly a theatrical experience. I did rewatch it.

I rewatched all of Cuaron's movies this month before the Oscars for Roma. And the script I don't think is very good. And I think it's the pacing is kind of weird when you're not watching it in a theater and I hadn't watched it since I saw it in a movie theater in the movie theater. I completely agree. It is one of the most memorable experiences. It was basically like an IMAX movie. Yeah. It was like an IMAX movie with a script. He's, he is a master. I just don't know if it's a movie that I want to return to now that doesn't

mean that it shouldn't be rewarded here. I think that the 12 Years a Slave versus Gravity race was one of the more interesting races that we've had in recent years and identifies a little bit of the crisis that the Oscars is in right now, where a lot of people saw Gravity. It was a huge hit, and they tune in to see if Gravity's going to win, and then it doesn't win, and they're like, what's this other movie? And then they walk away confused. Now, that's not us. We think and talk about the Oscars all the time, but it does raise some interesting convulsions about the Academy. Her?

You're okay with this being nominated? Yeah, I said I love Spike Jonze. You are too, Chris? This is a great movie. Nebraska? I'd be kind of curious to see what would happen if Her came out in 2019, though. And the last one is Wolf of Wall Street. Yeah, so this is the one I wanted to talk about. Yeah.

I think this is aged in the most interesting way of any of these movies of the last five years, other than a couple that we haven't mentioned yet. I thought that this movie was criminally misunderstood upon release. It's like, it's like this basically being like, it was like somehow like an extension of entourage or something like, look how cool this is.

This is so badass what these guys did. And it was like... I think it's kind of hard sometimes when you say to somebody they don't like a movie and you're like, well, you don't understand. It is comedy, right? It's a satire. And I think people didn't understand

that Scorsese and DiCaprio were actively lampooning and making fun of these people and trying to show how grotesque capitalism is. And it got kind of distorted as like, oh God, why would I want to see another movie about like these corporate assholes? But I think that this is the movie that aged the best out of this group. It suffered from the same criticisms that I think a lot of Scorsese's movies about gangsters suffer from

which is this perception that he's glorifying people who do bad things but he just has this incredible rock and roll style of movie making

that it gets you excited to watch movies that doesn't necessarily mean he's approving of the actions of the people it's funny this year I feel like Vice

came under the same fire I read a lot of criticism about that movie where people said this movie tries to make us think Dick Cheney was cool because he sought power. And if that's your takeaway from Vice, I honestly don't know what movie you were watching.

But it's exactly what you're saying with Wolf of Wall Street, Chris, where people were like, Jordan Belfort is a piece of garbage who ruined people's lives and we shouldn't make him seem like somebody who would resemble Leonardo DiCaprio. That's just like a perception thing.

How do you think about the movie? In a lot of ways, also, this movie is as physically demanding to watch as Gravity. It's a very long movie with these very intense sequences that really challenge you as a viewer. So I think that's what killed it.

It was too long. Too long. It was just too long. Was it like three hours? Three hours. Two hours and 59 minutes. It was just too long. And it's three hours of like cocaine cinema. It's not like three hours of like, oh, this is pretty like cool. I'm going to use the word grueling.

I love that. It's grueling to watch. Yeah. I mean, this one kind of falls under the famous, would this have been a Netflix series question that you always ask on the rewatch. This is 100% would have been better as a six-episode Netflix series. Yeah. I mean, and shows like Succession are kind of about these sorts of people and Billions too.

There's obviously interest in this kind of like high-toned wealth porn that also doubles as commentary on how bad people are that pursue wealth porn. The other thing is it took criticism at the time, and vinyl was the worst version of this, but being Scorsese karaoke a little bit. And I think that was my reaction the first time I watched it was I felt like it was Scorsese had been artificial intelligence and some computer was making some of the choices of pulling from 40 years of Scorsese, basically. I feel like there's, karaoke is an interesting word

because sometimes you can go to a karaoke bar and you'd rather hear some drunk guy sing Pearl Jam karaoke than hear the real version of a Taylor Swift song. You know, like, and that's- To pull an example completely out of nowhere. It's just kind of random. But I mean,

I personally would just much rather watch karaoke Scorsese than 96% of other films. I'm just more interested in the kinds of movies he makes. Yeah, I think also... And that goes for both kinds.

That goes for Silence too. There's also, in this best picture category, is the Scorsese karaoke is American Hustle. Like, American Hustle is the, like let's do a Led Zeppelin drop and have people walk into a room in slow

motion. And everybody is saying things like we got to get over on all these guys. And like, it's like, it has that kind of tough guy talk. I think it's interesting. You, you identified this in vinyl Terrence winner wrote both of those.

You know, he wrote wolf. He wrote vinyl. I'm your mileage may vary. I happen to think that wolf of wall street is, is just like, Hans Winter wrote both of those. He wrote Wolf, he wrote Final. Your mileage may vary. I happen to think that Wolf of Wall Street is just a pretty amazing black comedy. And one of the best Jonah Hill performances. I was just going to say,

Jonah Hill is so great in this movie. So funny. So my question is, if this movie is two hours, 23 minutes, I think it's remembered in a little more fondly. Because I think people watch this once and then that was it. I think it's also a problem. The climax of this movie is him having a Quaaludes

episode where he can't get into it. Kyle likes it. That's great. Yeah, I think there's a couple things, though, to mention about this. One, it was a huge hit. Yeah. A three-hour movie about a stockbroker. Crazy. It was a huge hit.

Incredible trailer. Estimates of the power of Leo. Yeah. Yeah, Leo and kind of like the Kanye West song in the trailer and the kind of energy, the music in this movie is incredible. You know, it's a classic like Robbie Robertson just pulling from 50 years of rock and roll and hip-hop history and just inserting it into the movie. Great Kyle Chandler heat check in this movie. I don't know. I really like-

Bernthal? Also, Martin Scorsese was like 75 years old when he made this. You can't underestimate that. I'm 36 and I'm like exhausted every day. How did he make such like a rocking, long, epic story at that age? It's really impressive.

We all love Bernthal at The Ringer. Yeah. And I think we have to legally adopt him. I don't think he would accept that. I think he's pretty bare-knuckled these days. I don't know. Have you seen Widows yet? Yeah, he's good in it.

It's a pretty tough performance. Oh, I thought you meant like he already has an allegiance to another editorial. Like he's Team Atlantic. That would hurt my feelings. He's in a movie with The Rock that I really like. What's that movie with The Rock when he has to drive a rig? What's that movie, Kyle? Oh, I know what you're talking about.

He's good in that movie. That's like a borderline rewatchable for me. That's like in that shooter class of when I see shooter, I'm like, okay. That's not Walking Tall, is it? Snitch. Snitch. He's good. I think that was the same year as this movie.

I like Snitch. That's when. I think that was the same year as this movie. I like Snitch. That's when The Rock's son gets arrested, right? And he has to go in and extract him. Snitch is good. All right. A couple movies that didn't get best picture attention. There's one outrageous omission that really offended me. And I can't believe they fucked this up.

And I think it's one of the five best and longest lasting movies of this year, The Conjuring. The Conjuring. I think The Conjuring was fucking great. And horror movies never get attention ever. I think it's one of the eight or nine best horror movies of all time. Hugely influential. Exceptionally well done.

Really well acted. You could make a case Vera Farmiga should have gotten nominated. And just got overlooked. Yes or no, Fantasy? I think that there's definitely an interesting case to be made for it that definitely was not made for it at the time. Yeah, and in a post-Get Out world, might have.

Yeah, I think, I've talked about this on podcasts before, but the Conjuring universe, quote unquote, is legitimately the most successful non-fast, non-superhero franchise in the world. The Annabelle movies are a part of this. The Curse of La Llorona that's coming out this summer.

The Nun that came out last year. All of those movies are all connected to The Conjuring. The Conjuring 2, I actually think, is better than the first Conjuring. Yeah, that's the one in England, right? Yeah. But you're right. It is kind of an important movie in movie history.

It's an important movie. It doesn't have one thing that I think a movie like Captain Phillips does have, which it doesn't really tell us anything about anything. It's just like a fun, well-made horror movie. But I think for me, it signifies the shift of what happened in horror movies this decade. The moment The Conjuring comes out, we have now officially moved away from Saw and torture porn. Right. And we're moving into the,

there's something wrong with the house. There's something wrong with my daughter. There's something wrong with my car. Just this whole supernatural world. And The Conjuring 1 and 2 is still the best version of it, I think. I've watched all of them. It's a really good case.

Those are- We even watched Open House on Netflix this week, which is the worst one of all of them. And if you ever want to watch an incoherent, awful movie, watch Open House on Netflix. It is another something's wrong with the house movie, but Conjuring started this. I mean, it didn't start it

because like Amityville Hart did it in the 70s, but like The Conjuring, I guess, brought it back. It was the most polished, well-made version of this movie that had come along. Well-acted. Come along, yeah. I mean, you know, it's like B-level movie stars are partaking in it. They're taking it very seriously.

It's definitely aspiring to more like The Exorcist than it is to something like Paranormal Activity. So I think that's a good case for it, especially when you look back on like Philomena and American Hustle. In Nebraska. Who cares about these movies? We don't think about them. Second one, The Counselor. Thoughts? That would never get nominated,

but that'll definitely be like the rewatchables that you and I do that gets this company shut down. I at least would want to be a part of that one. I love The Counselor. I think that'll be 10 years from now, one of the most respected movies from this year. I think it's going to be obsessed over. I don't know about respected.

Like it's really, really weird to the point of obscurity. It's just, it's, it is similarly like the Wolf of Wall Street though. Like an old guy being like, fuck it. I'm putting all my cards on the table.

Right. Like here are all my moves and they're all really weird. Indecipherable. What that, like that movie is actually like as somebody who loves Cormac McCarthy and Ridley Scott and Texas drug stories and everything that's basically it took me like three viewings to be like, oh, that's the story. I actually had to read the screenplay to be like, oh, diamonds. I got it. OK, cool.

Like you watch it. You're just like, wow, that guy just got his head cut off. I don't know why our girls in that. Cam Diaz. Cam. Yeah, this is a good cam. This is a very physical performance? Cam Diaz? Cam. Yeah. This is a... It's good Cam. This is a very physical performance from Cameron Diaz.

When you have the conversation of Cameron Diaz underrated, overrated, properly rated, and then settle on underrated because she's really underrated. This is one of the performances where you're like,

yeah, the counselor. One of the most gopher broke actress performances Really enjoyed her career. Great job by her. Come back. She hasn't made a movie in like five years. I think she's done. Before Midnight, I don't think is in the best picture conversation actress really enjoyed her career years great job by her uh come back she hasn't made a movie in

like five years i think she's done before midnight i don't think is in the best picture conversation for me i thought it was the weakest of the three i thought it was one of the most memorable movies i saw that year it's really rough you're just in the middle of this relationship that is yeah you're in this you're in like a real marriage with these people and it's warts and all and it's like you kind of leave the theater and you look at whoever you're dating or you're in like a real marriage with these people and it's warts and all and it's like you kind of leave the theater and you look at whoever you're dating or you're married to

and you kind of size each other up for five seconds when did Boyhood actually come out what was that after two years ago

so the the before trilogy is like to me in some ways a lot more it's just like way more of a significant achievement than Boyhood

even though he spent so much time making Boyhood it's a miracle but like what he significant achievement than boyhood, even though he spent so much time making boyhood, it's a miracle. But like what he's done in the before trilogy and how I think crucially because those two actors have just remained relevant and so great. Chris, don't step on the summer rewatch.

I know, but it's just like the before, but save some for the rewatch before midnight is, is I think really deserves to be in this best. So you would do best picture for it. Yeah. Especially since it's no guarantee that we'll get a before afternoon or is, I think, really deserves to be in this best picture category. So you would do best picture for it? Yeah, especially since it's no guarantee

that we'll get a before afternoon or whatever the fourth one would be, you know? Before afternoon? I don't even know. Before noon? Like, yeah.

I think that that I think it's very hard to make something that feels real. That people can walk out of a movie and go, man, this person really

understands relationships. This is really what it's like to be in a fight where you're like, is this the last fight we're going to have? And that movie does that. It pulls that off. That's really impressive. He's such a genius. I love his movies.

It certainly should have bumped a couple of the ones we have here. Francis, I'm not a huge fan of, but make the case for it. You never lived in New York, Bill. It's one of the all-time great 21st century, this is what it's like to be 26 in New York, Bill. Okay. Great. It's like, it's one of the all-time great 21st century, this is what it's like to be 26 in New York. Okay. Especially for me. I mean, I like, me and Greta Gerwig are about the same age,

and I can just feel her importing a lot of the experiences that I had. There are several scenes that take place in that movie in restaurants I've eaten in and in bars I've been to. So it's a home movie for you? I wouldn't be that derogatory about it. I think it's incredibly well made too. Would you do best picture for it? You know, it's...

These are the five-year Oscars. You can bump... We can bump four of these movies. I threw a bunch of these kinds of movies at Sean last night and it was interesting. Our brief conversation that we had about it was pretty fast in fact Francis Ha was on that

Inside Llewyn Davis was on this list that was the last that was the last one I had on the list that has to at least be discussed so you're not a big

Coen Brothers person so what do you think I'm not I didn't love this movie okay yeah I was gonna say but a lot of people do people are into this

so I'm just saying like if we're trying to find nine five years later, the counselor shouldn't be in there. But the other four we mentioned, The Conjuring, Before Midnight, Francis Ha and Inside Llewyn Davis, Bumping, Philomena, Nebraska, Captain Phillips and American Hustle. I'm okay with that trade.

Right. Francis Ha would have been really, really surprising, but would it really have been any more surprising than something like Beast of the Southern Wild getting nominated? You know, sometimes a small movie comes along

and then they just recognize it. So that wouldn't have been crazy to me. Let's take a quick break and we'll get back to this. The new Microsoft Surface Pro 6 can help you get things done whether you're on the field

or running a business. Take Brian Arakpo and Michael Griffin, two former NFL teammates who have opened a cupcake shop with the Surface Pro. They can do everything they need from setting schedules to creating promotions for social media and designing new

flavors. Plus, it's light, super fast, has a great battery life. Brian and Michael are proving you can tackle all your passions with the power and speed of the new Surface Pro 6. Inside Llewyn Davis, you want to make the case, Chris?

Quick. This is a movie that is like, Coen Brothers movies now basically follow a cycle for me where the trailer is amazing and I can't wait to see it. Then the first time I see it, I'm like, huh?

And then like the second or third time I see it, I was like, oh, that's probably one of the best movies I've seen in the last five years. And that happened with Hail Caesar and it happened with Inside Llewyn Davis and it's happening with Buster Scruggs. So I just think that they don't make movies

with the exception of No Country for Old Men that are optimized for, obviously, a very important film that will be celebrated at the Oscars. Also, their kind of cynicism about award season probably doesn't help. You know, they're kind of like being like, cool, thanks, is sort of... I like that about them.

I do too. It's funny that they got three nominations this year. I like that about them. I love that about them. It's funny that they got three nominations this year. Just almost without even trying. I know. So best picture five years later is? I think

12 Years a Slave is the is the great achievement. And it also feels like the right Oscar pick. But I I certainly could hear the case for Gravity.

Oh, I think it's Wall Street. Pretty easily. For me. I still go 12 years asleep. I thought that movie was really, really hit me. When we do this podcast.

This is really well done and just took me into a world and it said something and I thought it meant something. I'm okay with it still. It kind of balances all the things that at least the Academy wants. Maybe not what I want specifically, but it wants a meaningful story. It often wants a period piece. It wants something that feels true.

It wants an extraordinary performance at the center of it. It wants supporting players who sort of like scare you and shock you and impress you. Every single supporting actor that's in that movie is doing impressive stuff. It's got vision. You know, Steve McQueen is a real artist. And that was the other thing I liked about it is that it was one of those movies where you're watching

and you're like, this guy's going to be in my life for 35 years. Definitely. And I think that matters. When we do this five years from now, there probably will be a weird and interesting conversation about widows, which is pretty much completely overlooked.

And it's fascinating. It's that movie. I like that. I need to see it again. What'd you think, Kyle? Did you see it? Nope. You'd like it.

Okay. One of the problems is a lot of dudes like Kyle who would dig widows just didn't see widows. Did you not know it was like out? But don't rent it when it's out. That's what I mean. I still have never heard of it. There you go.

So Wolf of Wall Street for me, just too long. I think it's too big of a flaw for me to overcome mentally. Okay. And I don't think it was enough to take the 12 years of sleep. Where does it sit on your all-time Scorsese list? Is it in the top 10? It's not in the top five for me. It's definitely not in the top five.

Can we do this as a podcast on Big Picture? Top five Scorsese? The best Scorsese? Top five Scorsese. Okay. Yeah it in March. Top five Scorsese. Okay. Yeah. I want to wait for the Irishman to come out when he has a new movie in the fall.

I'm worried about that one. Best actor. McConaughey won. DiCaprio was nominated. Bruce Stern nominated for Nebraska. He's actually good in that movie. It's the only good thing about it. Christian Bale in American Hustle.

And 12 Years a Slave. I'm going to mangle it. You know I have pronunciation dyslexia. Thank you. Those were the five. I just feel like looking back, DiCaprio should have won. Yes. He's like fucking awesome in that movie.

He's really great. He's like Bo Jackson in this movie. It's incredible. It's kind of amazing that he didn't win. And I don't know what happened. And I feel like we had a pop culture sports website at the time, Grantland. Maybe we didn't have a huge influence

but I wish we had just gone deeper on why isn't Leo the best actor? Also, he's this is a performance that has lived on since then. It is like just constantly referenced. Like you always see like memes of him throwing the orange juice or throwing money at Kyle Chandler.

Yeah, it's an incredible performance. This is one of my confusions about the Rami Malek thing this year. Why are we giving Rami Malek an Oscar for his first movie? We literally made Leonardo DiCaprio wait 20 years and make 15 movies that we all agree are great and were big hits and also prestigious. And we're like, not yet. Keep waiting.

Keep waiting. Fake teeth and lip syncing go a long way. Best actress. This is one of, apologies to the nominees, but really one of the least memorable categories I think has ever been. Amy Adams in American Hustle. Blue Jasmine won Cate Blanchett. Judi Dench for

Philomena Meryl Streep for August Osage County I don't even think Meryl Streep liked that movie and then one of the great

American plays not a great film though I mean it is it's pretty rough I would love to know the percentage of people who fell asleep watching the screener

of that movie that was an incredible play that got a brutal cast that was like, let's get Benedict Cumberbatch in this movie. It was just like a really bad look. And then Sandra Bullock for gravity. I think looking back at this, Boo Jasmine was pretty good. I don't know.

I don't even really care. I'm just, this category leaves me cold. It's the same thing. It's just Cate Blanchett probably should have won seven or eight years earlier. I'm fine with it. It's a really good performance. This is also, in retrospect, Delpy and

Gerwig should be in this category. Yeah. So, like, if you put Julie Delpy and Greg Gerwig in the category, it becomes a much more interesting competition. And even Vera Farmiga I would consider. Yeah. Meryl Streep was just the blind checkmark of Meryl Streep. To some extent, Dench is too.

I mean, I think Dench is one of the great actresses, but I don't really know that I can tell the difference between one Judi Dench performance and another over the last 10 years. I think it's also a good Sandra Bullock performance. You know, she's alone. She was the other one I would have gone. There's a lot of physical challenges. You know I love when people are alone in movies.

It's like Damon and the Martian. Really hard to pull that off I agree I feel like people not being able to play off somebody is a challenge in acting and also like

the green screen stuff that she had to do and wearing a suit the whole time not being able to see that face as clearly as you do she's so expressive

I don't know it's a pretty good one you know my Amy Adams take it's my least favorite take of yours what is your Amy Adams take? that she's the Alex Smith of famous actresses. I did not know that was your take.

She's fine. You can totally make the first round with her. She doesn't make bad stuff. She doesn't make bad stuff. She wins. She's almost never in a movie that you think is bad. Look at her win-loss record. She's got a great win-loss record.

Yeah. You know what? I'm not winning the Super Bowl with her. I'm a fan. I know you are. I'm a big fan. Especially after, I think Arrival changed that for me too. I'm not here to make friends. Yeah. You know what? I'm not winning the Super Bowl. I'm a fan. I'm a huge fan. Especially after I think Arrival changed that for me too. I'm not here to make friends.

Supporting actor is egregious. This is the one like looking back I was like what? Captain Phillips. That guy. Barcod Abdi. Bradley Cooper in American Hustle. Fastbender in 12 Years a Slave which would if we did Fassbender in 12 Years a Slave, which would,

if we did the rewatchables of 12 Years a Slave, which we're probably not doing. We're not doing that. But he, what's the award we have for the over-actor? Well, the Dion slash Dino Waiters award?

No, not Dion Waiters. Oh, the Rubenek, yeah. The Saul Rubenek they knew? That's Fassbender in that movie? Jared Leto won for Dallas Buyers Club, which is egregious. And then Jonah Hill didn't win for Wolf of Wall Street, which I think as the years pass is outrageous.

20 years from now when he's got four or five nominations and hasn't won, we'll be like, that's the one he should have won for. Terrible. I'd like to throw Brad Pitt from Counselor in this category. Wow. Oh, interesting. That would be the one that I would add. Brad Pitt over Bardem. Oh, interesting. That would be the one

that I would add. Brad Pitt over Bardem. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, Brad Pitt has like two amazing monologues and then a disgusting death. I liked your point.

I liked your call how Julie Delpy could have gotten nominated for Best Actress. She didn't get nominated for any of those three movies and she's like indelible in those movies.

She is. Like who else is even playing that? She has been nominated for screenplay for those movies. I love her Like, who else is even playing that? She has been nominated for screenplay for those movies. I love her. Supporting actress, Lupita Nyong'o won for 12 Years a Slave.

The other, Sally Hawkins, Boo Jasmine, Jennifer Lawrence, American Hustle, Julia Roberts, Augustin, Osage.

They had two nominees. And then, Jane Squibb in Nebraska. That's also, I'm sorry, June Squibb. That's a bad category. I'm okay with how it ended up.

Director, Alfonso Cuaron, Gravity. He won. He did win. He's going to win again. Steve McQueen, 12 Years a Slave, did not win. Tough. Alexander Payne, Nebraska, stop it. David O. Russell Russell American Hustle

adorable Scorsese Wolf of Wall Street the top three in that category is pretty good McQueen, Cuaron and Scorsese yeah it's pretty good could have gone in any direction I mean Scorsese had won recently for the Departed

so he wasn't going to win there I thought Gravity was a real achievement. I was constantly confused by how they were doing it. Did Chivo shoot that? He did. There's a really fascinating New York Magazine story that ran by a guy named Dan P. Lee about a month before the movie came out

that explains how Cuaron and Chivo conceived the whole movie that gives you incredible insight into the way that they figured out what kind of movie they wanted to make. Making space movies is really hard. There's a space movie coming out in May that Chris and I are psyched about starring Brad Pitt called Ad Astra that I'm hoping is going to

kind of challenge the Gravity 2001 Hall of Fame for these kinds of movies. So what would you go with five years later? McQueen or Cuaron? Cuaron. It's Cuaron.

Cuaron. I have pronunciation dyslexia. It's honestly a coin flip. Like I don't have a preference. No, you can't. It can't be a coin flip. Make a pick. I'm fine with how it went.

I'm good with how it went. Me too. Despite like the the amount of OCH County that we had this night, I actually walked away from this Oscars night being like, cool, that's a very nice distribution of awards. Yeah, Leo losing to McConaughey was bad, though.

Yes, but I think that Corone winning and 12 Years a Slave winning is best possible outcome. There was not a lot of outcry about this one. It was not controversial. Best animated was The Croods, Despicable Me 2, Ernest and Celestine. I don't even know what that is. Frozen, The Wind Rises. Kyle, you okay with Frozen for that one? I never saw Frozen.

I've never seen any of these movies. Solo rewatchables, Kyle watches Frozen. Kyle's upset because I told him he can't jewel during the podcast anymore because I don't like secondhand jewel smoke. I've never seen Kyle jewel during a podcast. No, he secretly jewels. It's secret, exactly. And then I googled secondhand jewel smoke and it's a thing. Some people a podcast. No, he secretly jewels. It's secret, exactly. And then I Googled secondhand jewel smoke

and it's a thing and some people get headaches. You're going to get exactly what you want. No, I don't. Take your jeweling outside. I will, I will. Yeah, weird year.

I'm going to give this year like a C minus. Oh, I think it's like a B. It's a B. All right, I'll raise it to a C+. Okay. Where would you rank it compared to this year so far? Right before the awards.

Probably pretty close. This year, even though there are a bunch of good movies that are nominated, is an F-. No question. This is the messiest, most annoying Oscars here in recent memory. I'm amazed by it. It's exasperating. I think we felt this way

five years ago about this group of movies, though. But Gravity and 12 Years a Slave were such no-brainer classic great Oscar movies. Only The Wolf of Wall Street was the one that we're looking back and we're like, they kind of didn't do right by this so few movies

did we not do right by alright Chris Ryan Sean Fantasy Big Picture we should mention live both of you guys

are going to be live Sunday yes not together though not together you have the True Detective season for now the Flat Circle which we'll be doing on YouTube

and on Twitter on our ringer accounts and then Sean and Amanda Dobbins post Oscar show. There's really no post game shows for the Oscars, so we're going to do one. We got one. And hopefully there's some weird shit going on. So we'll see how that goes. Hopefully.

Good luck, fellas. Thanks, Bill. Alright, thanks to Sean and Chris and Mallory and Kevin Clark and Nephew Kyle for not dueling. Thanks to ZipRecruiter. Don't forget to go to ZipRecruiter.com't forget to go to ziprecruiter.com slash BS. Thanks to Hotel Tonight. They make it easy to book awesome hotels at amazing rates,

like a matchmaker between top-rated hotels with unsold rooms and people who want to book those rooms. Hotel Tonight, not for last-minute bookings. Book for tonight, tomorrow, and beyond. Perfect for planners, procrastinators, everyone in between. Sweet deals, cool hotels that you would actually want to stay in. Go to hoteltonight.com or download the app today. If you missed the rewatchables, we did Dave this week.

We have Reality Bites coming next week. I have three podcasts coming next week and I will see you then. I want to see them on the way so I never say I don't have feelings with them. On the wayside, on the way so I never say I don't have feelings with them.