The Bill Simmons Podcast - USA-France, Disappearing Dame, Ben Simmons, the Knicks, and Fantasy FB Sleepers With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Craig Horlbeck

Episode Date: August 6, 2021

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Joe House and Wosny Lambre to talk about Team USA basketball, Damian Lillard’s disappointing performances, and international vs. American basketball rules, as well as the recent moves in NBA free agency including the Knicks signing Kemba Walker, the increasingly odd Ben Simmons situation, and more (1:36). Then, Craig Horlbeck from 'The Ringer Fantasy Football Show' joins the show to offer up his seven favorite sleepers for the upcoming fantasy football season (1:31:31). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Joe House, Wosny Lambre, Craig Horlbeck Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Coming up, Joe House, Big Waz. Their first appearance ever on a podcast. House got dressed up. Can't wait to talk about it. First Pearl Jam. All right, House is here. Waz is here. And House is dressed up just to impress Waz, it sounds like. There's only one first impression, Bill Simmons. This is the legend, the big Waz. If you don't show up with the fit, you might as well go ahead and quit.

So I got it. I got it. Look, I got my ringer jacket. I got my, you know, I had to rock it a little bit of an old school. Because we are at this time in the NBA season, it's business season. So I'm dressed up. I got a little bit of a business vibe going today. You know it's so funny that you would call this a first impression

because fans of Bill's show know that Bill has two homeboys, prominent homeboys. For me, one is a right winger, and the other one is lefty commie scum. Obviously, that's you, Joe House. And so you've already made a great impression on me, brother. Because I share those sentiments. I want to talk about the Olympics first. Peacock, a.k.a. the cock.

Have been, Peacock has been showing the basketball. They're showing it at weird hours. After the game's end, they don't have replays of the game. You have to basically go on Twitter, search for the game, and hope there's a clip on there. And then like about seven hours later, they'll show a seven- minute recap of the game, which they did today with France-Slovenia,

which how's that I bet on France. The game started at four o'clock my time. I missed it. Woke up to the pleasant surprise that France won at the last second. And then we never got to see anything. Just before we get into Team USA, how can they fuck this up? How hard is this?

There's so many basketball fans. How do they fuck this up? How hard is this? There's so many basketball fans. How do they mess this up? What is the deal? There is one defense for the cock. And that is as it relates to the, to the time. I mean, they're in Japan. It's the other side of the world. So you can't blame the cock for the time.

You can blame them for everything else though. It's, it feels like it's worse than the G league game. The presentation of it. Yeah. And it's kind of confusing, too, because NBC still has NBC Sports Network. Yeah. And they got Peacock. Then there's regular NBC.

And you don't know what you are able to get from each channel. There's an app for regular NBC. Like, it's all fucked. I don't understand why they just don't put everything under the peacock umbrella and let us pick whatever the hell it is we want to watch and consume. It's just all over the place. Well, I'll tell

you this, and I'm still an old school cable satellite guy. So you have channel 4 NBC, channel 40 on cable is USA, then 314 is NBC Sports Network. Then CNBC, I don't cable is USA. Then 314 is NBC Sports Network. Then CNBC. I don't even know where that is on my cable system.

And Peacock. God forbid they worked with the different cable systems and satellites just to put special channels where they're all next to each other so we could flip back and forth. I feel like I'm spending half the time flying around just trying to find what to watch. Then half the shit's tape delayed. The Simone Biles bronze medal thing they showed the other night, I think that had happened

12 hours earlier. I don't know how we're doing that in the internet age. And then the basketball, the one thing I really truly care about has been staggered all over the place, at least Friday night, the gold medal game, USA-France. It looks like that's going to be 9.30 Pacific time or 7.30 Pacific time, 10.30 East Coast time. So they at least figured that out. But anyway, I just can't believe we still screw this up. It's 2021. How do we screw this up? Speaking of screwed up, I thought Dame Lillard was a superstar. What happened to Dame Lillard on Team USA this year? I thought he was one of the 11 best

players in basketball. He's eighth in minutes. They can't keep him on the floor. He can't guard anybody. He looks like 1998 Dana Barrows. I was afraid to tweet about this last night because I didn't want the fucking Dame hive and the Portland hive to come at me. But it's like, Dame's been irrelevant in these Olympics. House, I can't believe it. What happened to you? Why are you getting on here? It's the Olympic moment. The Olympic spirit should be infusing your perspective. This USA team came all the way around.

We were ready to bury this team a week and a half ago. And the first thing you want to do, they had played a very impressive, very team-oriented, focused game against Australia, choked the life out of Australia. And there were many outstanding performances. And what you want to start with, Bill Simmons, is Dame slander. Now, if the point is... This is the same guy who texted me. think dame is rope doping this so

he can get traded to philly you texted that to me you texted it to me that's true i think that i do think that look this is why i'm gonna cut dame some slack i've watched people like i don't know lebron james who is universally considered and accepted to be one of the three best NBA players ever, which we know Dame ain't that. I've watched him go overseas and not look incredible in, you know, USA basketball competition. So if Dame is kind of uncomfortable and can't really find his sea legs within the context of this team, haphazardly put together no practice time just a bunch of random guys thrown together and trying to figure it out i'm not gonna kill the guy

for it bill i think i think you're killing dame because he's kind of asked for a trade didn't i think he's no no no i'm not no i'm not killing him for that i'm this i think you guys have amnesia about how this team was sold to us. This was supposed to be KD and Dame. Oh, okay. And then everybody else. These were the two stars of the team. He has basically become an afterthought on this team.

And I think there's a couple of reasons going on. One, I think international ball is really weird. I think it's hard for these guys who are used to getting NBA calls to drive to the basket, bounce off guys. They just don't get those calls anymore. So that's one thing. The other thing is Duran is so clearly the best player, not only on this team, but in the world, that everything is running through him. And Dame's actually playing off the ball for the first time in his career. So he's in the left corner on offense. And then on defense, everybody's hunting him. Watch what France does

tomorrow night. They're going to be hunting him every second that he's in the game. And then I think House, ultimately, the best five for this team is Holiday, KD,

Booker, Levine, which shocks me, and Draymond. I feel the most comfortable with those five guys. And I think Tatum's kind of a wild card.

He's been hit or miss. But if he's hitting, at least he has some size but did you expect that was going to be the best five for this team no and i want to again compliment the united states team usa basketball for coming together really in a two week span and dealing with all of the unexpected turbulence. Guys, Bradley Beal drops out because of COVID. Three guys coming over from the finals team

and then, I mean, from the NBA finals. And look how quickly it came together. And the identity of the team in less than two weeks is a defensive identity. They play their asses off on defense. They were in every passing lane. The Australians couldn't get shit after the first quarter because all of the length and athleticism of that U.S. team

and Zach Levine in that kind of context where it becomes up-tempo because they are forcing steals. They're forcing turnovers. He's a finisher. I mean, he just goes hard, and we saw a bunch of his finishes, so it made sense, right? Some good Booker stuff, too, on that front. The two-way stuff that we saw in the playoffs transferred over,

so that's been pleasing to watch. And you know what it reminds me of, Bill? It reminds me of my high school days when, you know, whenever we would play out of conference, not New York City kids, some Long Island kids out in Huntington and places like that. Coach Leary would be like, look, we're going to press the shit out of these kids. We're going to pressure the ball. And basically what he was trying to say was it's a bunch of suburban Long Island white boy pussies.

We're going to press the athleticism advantage and that's how we're going to beat them. And I think that's what Team USA's calling card is. Like Australia is the equivalent of St. Well I was about to say St. Mary's. That's a lie. They were pretty damn good. Of like all of these St. Dominic's and all these other kids that we would play against.

And that's how Team USA is treating them. They're pressuring the ball. They're switching everything. KD's like, yo, Patty Mills, I can guard you out to 40 feet if I fucking want to. And everybody's giving a shit on defense. And that's when they turned the game around. When they held them to 10 points in the third quarter. And then the game was over.

So Dave's not part of that defensive identity. I can't be mad at it. You know what I mean? They're winning, Bill. We can't complain when we win. Yeah, that's fair. I also have a theory and watch this tomorrow. There are some guys on this USA basketball team

that still are not comfortable, literally, with the basketball. They're using a different ball. That FIBA ball, Jason Tatum cannot get his hands on that basketball. I don't know why. I mean, the Ringer's own beloved Raja Bell is on record as criticizing the ball.

They say it's the same size, but it feels lighter. It's spongier. It's more slippery. There's a bunch of things that they said. I literally think for somebody like Dame, where it's a touch game, it's a feel game for him, the ball might have a role in this. Well, I was texting with Ben Thompson last night because I did a tweet about how KD and Drew

were the indispensable guys. And Ben Thompson's just riding this Bucs title. He's like, oh yeah, my guy Drew. And then we were texting about Tatum and he's like, what happened? Like Dame and Tatum, what happened to those guys? And I said the same thing to him and I forwarded him that Roger Bell article

about the ball. Because Tatum has always had kind of an up-and-down handle. A couple years ago, like, it just sometimes it looks like he's missing his thumbs. And last year, I think one of the reasons he ascended a little bit was he got that handle under control. He got that low dribble down and that little crossover and things like that. But yeah, I agree with you. It's not just his

fumbling the ball and dribbles and stuff. He's missing stuff around the rim. He's missing stuff he never misses normally. So I agree with you, House. I think the ball, I don't know if it's affected Dame. I think just the offense is affected him more. The offense and you're right, Bill, about not knowing how to deal with what's a foul

and what's not a foul. But what I liked is Team USA turned that around and was like, all right, we're going to push these fucking guys around on the other end and use it to our actual advantage, you know, because we're bigger, stronger, faster than you, and we get to put our hands on you. Yeah, you're toast.

And I think they're going to do the same thing in France. That's been an Olympic legacy for us. We've kind of come to that realization. It happened in 08. It happened in 12, where it's just like, oh wait, we have the best athletes. What are we doing? Let's turn it up. What five or six guys can we go who can play at a certain level? That's why younger LeBron was so great to watch in some of this stuff in the 2012 team. The 2012 team, you look back at just the construction of that and they were missing a big guy. I remember Kevin Love had to play crunch time for them, but they had the two point guards.

They had D. Will when he was still good and CP, obviously. And then LeBron and they had Durant and they had Westbrook as an energy guy off the bench and Wade. And that was kind of the perfect team of athletes for this. And they didn't want Dwight Howard because they didn't invite him back. Dwight did not make a lot of friends in 08. But I think they've settled into the athlete thing.

House, do you like Zach Levine more after watching the Olympics? I like him in exactly this kind of context, and it whets my appetite for what this Bulls team might be. They approach it this Bulls team because what they've built in this offseason, kudos to the Bulls for taking a swing. I mean, they've built a team that should be up-tempo,

that if they can play defense and create turnovers, I like the idea of Levine in that system. And I, I mean, the, the, do you think, do you think Philly likes the idea when they trade Ben Simmons for him in

about a month? Ben Simmons for Zach Levine? Hold that, hold that thought, hold that thought for later. I want to talk about France because France is actually good. And France is going to be a real problem for a USA team that has, I love international basketball, by the way.

I feel like I'm in the minority, but I've watched every USA game. I've watched as much of the other games as I could. Go bear international basketball is a fucking problem because it's not just... Wait, so he can catch the ball and finish around the basket?

It does seem like he kind of can, though. No. No, but they have the goaltending, the difference in the goaltending rules are really useful for him. For sure. Absolutely. So they have him. I think DiColo is a half-decent point guard

for international. Fournier isn't afraid. And then Batum is a real defender. And, you know, KD's going to do whatever he wants. He's the best player in the world. Other than maybe Giannis. We could have the debate later.

But Batum will at least make him work. He'll make him do some stuff. My thing about Rudy, though, there are guys on other teams who are actually bruisers. So when the U.S. does their heavy switching stuff, it's like, all right,

if I have Devin Booker on me and I'm six foot eight, I'm going to pound this guy and get to the basket and score. Rudy Gobert ain't doing that shit. That's just not what he does. He doesn't punish small guys when they switch onto him. That's why Pat Beverly was getting in his ass in the freaking playoffs, right? So I think just Rudy's inability to beat up on a small switch, a small big switch, when the U.S. is just pressuring the shit out of his guards and not allowing them to give him clean entry passes, I think they're going to beat France pretty handily here. The key is to play real defense.

You're skipping over the play last night when Gobert dunked over the bartender from Australia who happened to be the seventh man on the Australia team. They had one guy on there. No, Slovenia. They played Slovenia. Slovenia. You said Australia. Yeah, I meant Slovenia, not Australia.

Slovenia. Yeah. Australia had a couple of those guys too. But look, here's the thing that concerns me with Gobert and with France. The US with this identity that they found that's super effective and they choked the life out of Australia, part of that identity is essentially, to me, amounts to team rebounding because they don't have the size to go rebound up front,

but they all collected because of the defense and the switching that Waz is talking about. They're first to the ball. Rudy Gobert on the offensive glass, not as an offensive, like a threat to score, but him, if the strategy is for him to crash the boards, that could be a problem.

That is a place where France would definitely potentially have an advantage. That's one thing I'll be looking for is can we get, we kept Australia to one shot. It felt like the whole second half. They got one shot and they were done. And that was it. I don't know if we could do the same thing with France.

Also on offense, Team USA has some pretty freaking good mid-range shooters, right? So if Rudy's going to be his normal act of staying glued to the basket, I like KD, Dame Lillard, even Drew Holiday to a certain extent, Tatum, Booker. These guys are great mid-range shooters. So I think they're going to mess them up in the mid-range. I'm just not really afraid of France. I think those losses early on.

I like the confidence. Yeah. I mean, come on. When these guys play hard, they're way better than these guys. Even when we're not sending our best.

This is, listen, this is all nervous energy for me because I feel like losing the gold medal to France would be absolutely brutal. And Rudy Gobert and Rudy Gobert

cry-hugging people. Like, oh my God. We can't have that. How awful would that be? Yeah, it's...'s normally house and i try to figure out ways to bet against the usa especially uh if we don't love the team or if we feel like the betting odds are great like we're not afraid to sell our patriotism out for somebody plus 12 i'm not betting on france house i'm just telling you now i'm not either i already cashed

that one i bet on them in the very first game. They were plus 12 and a half and the money line was like, you know, plus 550. That was a double cash for me, but that was the only opportunity to get those kinds of prices up front. And the U.S., I think the U.S. is going to cover whatever. What's the number? What's FanDuel have the number at? Well, tell us about our bet we made yesterday. Which bet did you guys place? Because I sent you guys a text about NBA. I didn't know that NBA Summer League had

We're doing that later. We have Summer League coming. So what bet did you guys place? We parlayed the America Moneyline with France plus three because there was so much Luka momentum and people just being convinced it was going to be Luka versus the U.S. in the finals, that the line actually got skewed by like five points. France is a better basketball team.

And the thinking was like Rubio had 38 against the U.S. and they still lost by 15. Like one guy isn't going to win a 40-minute game. So we rode France. As it turned out, it came down to the drive and layup at the end. I'll tell you this about international basketball. The flow to it, which we notice every four years is just better. There's a couple of little things they have in like this unsportsmanlike foul rule where the refs just like that was an unsportsmanlike foul.

We're not reviewing it. Just take your two fucking free throws. I don't like what you did right there. It's almost like hockey. It's like, you're going to the penalty box. And then the guy's shooting the free throws and the moment's over and we move on. The players don't complain. I think the biggest thing I've noticed from these games, the refs have so much more control. We don't have guys selling out for the, you know, and they're changing some of the rules with like the lurching into people and shit like that. You try to lurch into guys in Olympic basketball, they're not calling it. You try to barrel down the lane without a plan to do some layup and expecting a call.

You're not getting it. And I just feel like it feels like a more authentic basketball game to me. And if I was running the NBA, I would really be looking at some of this stuff and being like, how can we get better? What can we learn from this? The unsportsmanlike foul, I think, was the number one thing for me. What about you, Wes?

I just don't need replay in any sports whatsoever. Me neither. The idea that we need to get things quote unquote right in sports is ridiculous, right? Like it's not like we're deciding whether we need to, like, invade Iraq or something like that, which, by the way, took less replay time than some of these NBA calls.

I just don't need it. Like, if the refs make a mistake, it's part of the game. Human error is part of the drama of watching these things. So, no, I don't want replay. I like the idea that you can put your hands on guys on defense and it's not a freaking call every single time. That's how I grew up playing at the park. That's honestly how it was in the freaking NBA. You could put your hands on dudes. I like that element where you let guys play. And that means if an offensive player wants to bang

you back, he bangs you back and you just hoop in. I love that. Well, by the way, you can do it on defense if they're doing it to you on offense. Exactly. I'm with you. I wish it was back. What about you, House? I've been surprised by how much I love the 10-minute quarters. Is a 12-minute quarter a sacred cow for the NBA?

It just feels a little bit more urgent because you get, you know, I find myself watching these games and getting to the four minute mark, which, you know, to me is like the four minute mark at the end of the first half of the four minute mark at the end of the game. That's not crunching time. That's like when stuff's going to happen. And I'm like, I can't believe we're here already. I do. I think it does.

And it also shortens up the games. Now, the combination of no replay plus the 10-minute quarters, these games, I like the entertainment product that we're getting out of this international play. These games are over in two hours or less. I mean, sign me up. I like it. I don't think they're ever going to mess with the 48 minutes. Okay. But I it. Yeah. I don't think they're ever going to mess with the 48 minutes. Okay.

But I agree with you. There's a certain flow and there's an urgency. Like when the U.S. fell behind by 15 in the second quarter yesterday, it's like, oh, shit. Because there's not a lot of time to come back from that. You know, as it turns out, we have Kevin Durant, so it was probably easier than it was for most teams. But I think if there's a combination of the 12-minute quarters,

but with the flow we have in these games, I think we're going to find out. We all think these games are too long. We've been complaining about it forever. There was a couple of playoff games that were just an apocalypse last year. I just feel like we invented a problem that didn't exist with the replay stuff. Were people complaining about calls not being right in the 80s?

Like, I don't seem to remember this. Or when Mike was winning championships, were people like, they need to review that push off on Byron Russell. Like, it was fine. Here's the thing. Here's how we know it's not that big of a problem. Because we still have calls they fuck up up even with the current replay rule. They'll have the goaltending where they don't realize

that the guy hit the backboard and they missed it. And all of us are like, all right, they missed that one. It's fine. When it's stuff like Durant's foot being on the line on the biggest shot of the season, I understand replaying that and making sure you get that call right or whether a shot came after

zero, zero on the clock, stuff like that. I never want to see another block charge or clear path foul reviewed ever again. Like NBA, if you listen to this, like just get rid of those two, start there and we're all going to be a million times happier. The flow of these games and the fact that the referees have the confidence to just be like, you know what? That was an unnecessary roughness call. Is that what that unsportsmanlike call? I'm just calling it. We're not reviewing this. We're not

arguing about it. That guy's shooting two free throws. I feel like they have better control of the game. It's better. I'm fine with eliminating review for who touched the ball last as well. We had to live with that for however many years. And now like the which fingertip, what

millisecond? Get GTFO. Get the fuck out of here with that shit. Come on. Just play bow. We're going to take a break and then Waz and House are going to defend Dame Lillard more. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer.

Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. How can you be sure you're making the right decision when choosing a university? The smart approach is to look at the facts. Like the fact that York U graduates have a 90% employer satisfaction rate. That's because across its three GTA campuses,

York U's programs are strategically designed to prepare you for a meaningful career and long-term success. Join us in creating positive change at yorku.ca slash write the future. We looked on FanDuel Sportsbook for the line. I thought it was going to be like USA by seven, seven and a half. It's 12 and a half. And then Waz was like, yeah, I knew it. I knew it. Like, Waz, you're so confident that I feel like you're my first text when we blow this game tomorrow night. Listen, look, I watched the third quarter and I'm like, all they did was play hard on defense, which again, that puts less pressure on them executing stuff in half court offense and just makes the game that much easier when you're getting your athletes out in transition. We just watched this with my, excuse me, with Milwaukee,

right? Like Giannis in transition, getting easy buckets, not letting the Bucs, you know, do whatever we would call in their half court offense. Like that's how they won the championship, piecing together these possessions. That's the same thing with Team USA. It's not like these guys have all of this, you know this continuity together. They don't. So the least amount of time that they're doing half-court stuff and they're playing in the open floor, the better. And the way that they do that is putting the screws to these dudes on defense, which they got the horses to do that, Bill.

House, with all that said, I know you're going to text me tomorrow when the France money line goes from plus 600 to plus 650. And I know you're going to text me to at least have the conversation about whether we're going to grab France because that, honestly, that line is too high. I mean, plus 650. That's rich. In a 40-minute game where Durant could easily get in foul trouble?

Like, come on. That's worth half a nut. Come on. Plus 600 is like at least a flyer. Yeah, I'll give a quarter nut on that one. And if it goes up to 650, that might be half a nut. I don't know. We'll be singing the French National Anthem after with the players.

No, no. I will eat the shit out of some French fries, though. I promise. Oh, yeah. You love France. You love French fries. You like croissants. Steak frites. Steak frites. I eat the shit out of that. France is bar You love, you love France. You love French fries. You like croissants. Steak frites.

Steak frites. I eat the shit out of that. France has brought you a lot of joy. Let's audible to people who have not brought us a lot of joy recently. Ben Simmons. There's a lot of, a lot of scuttlebutt about how this is becoming untenable. And it feels like there's a chess game,

chess match, chess game, chess match going on with Ben Simmons and Clutch and Daryl Morey and the Sixers. Daryl Morey has done the thing. He's gone around. He's asked for everybody's best player. He's asked for the most absurd trade packages possible.

He's playing it perfectly from a leverage standpoint. He called Boston and asked for Tatum. They were like, cool. We're going to go now. I think his ultimate game plan is Dame. And I wonder at some point, somebody is going to have to nudge. But I guess my first question was Philly. Do you feel like they actually have to resolve this before we get to the start of the season?

Because I'd feel like they have to resolve this with him leaving. I do not think he can come back. I think the Embiid-Simmons thing is done. I think the Simmons-Philly fan relationship is done. And I don't see any scenario where he comes back and it works. So I do feel like there's real urgency. What do you think? Yeah. First I want to address like his, his, why what's informing my opinion. I want to bring the people along first yesterday after re-signing Danny Green, uh, Maury tweets out a screen grab of the top five lineups via lineup data as far as net rating.

And Philly's five-man unit of Danny Green, Ben Simmons, Tobias Harris, Joel Embiid, and Seth Curry was the best five-man lineup in the NBA last year. So he tweets a screen grab of like, basically like, I don't need to trade Ben Simmons. Like, we had the best five-man group with all guys that we're bringing back. And I'm like, doth protest too much, Daryl Morey. And here's why. You cannot come back next season and have Ben Simmons in your uniform perform exactly as he did in the playoffs. You cannot do that because once he goes out next season, he's still not shooting the ball and he still sucks at free throws and he's

still driving to the basket, fucking completely turning his back to the basket and passing it out. You're going to get even worse trade offers. So you cannot risk bringing him back in your uniform and stinking it up anywhere close to the level that he did in the playoffs. Because then people are just going to be like, he's crap. You got to trade him now while people can say, that was just a blip. He had a weird, funky little series. Everybody has him. The greats all have him.

Magic had the tragic Johnson, LeBron, et cetera. While people still feel that way about him, you have to move him. Magic had the tragic Johnson, LeBron, et cetera. While people still feel that way about him, you have to move him. You can't bring him back after Joel Embiid said, I don't know how else to say this. The game changed when a guy fucking passed out of a dunk. That's when the game changed. I don't know. Joel threw him under the bus. Doc was basically like, yo, we have a whole agenda and game plan in the off season for him. And then it comes out that he's not even talking to the front office or anybody. Like, it's over. It's over. It's over.

Stop pretending that it's anything else. Levine or Dame? What's more realistic to you, Hess? Or the Dorsey, De'Aaron Fox, and draft picks? Wow. I would personally, well, here's the thing that I'm interested in. I don't mean to duck your question, but the- It sounds like a ducking in progress.

It's about to be a duck. Here comes the duck. The aspect of this that is most intriguing to me is the staring contest between daryl and clutch and what i'm interested in is what is daryl's history with clutch can we look back and and see transactions at while while daryl was at houston where they didn't have clutch guys at houston so this is the thing this is what i'm getting getting at. Because the staring contest that we're in right now is mutually assured destruction. It does not help Ben to get what he wants out of this situation to say, we're cutting off communication with the Sixers.

I'm off doing my own thing. I'm going to tell you, the team. I want to go to Golden State. Like, I don't understand the strategy from Ben's perspective, from his camp. And on the other hand, Daryl has to work with Clutch. Like, you know, they rep a significant and growing percentage of the NBA player population. And so at some point, he's going to have to do a deal that Clutch will go along with. Now, you just put three deals on the table, potentially,

that all have their merits. I think out of those three, that Dame makes the most sense. Well, Dame will cost the most because they'd have to do picks and pick swaps and more than just the one V1. Cost the most to who? Will cost the most for Philly. And we don't even know if Portland

is going to trade Dame. Philly's got to pay. Philly's got to pay. Waz just made the point. You have a very, very tiny window that's open right now. Every day that goes by that Ben Simmons continues to be a Sixer is bad for the Sixers. It does not help their leverage.

So, Dane, they'd have to give up the most. Levine is probably the closest to a 1v1. And Fox, maybe Sacramento is throwing in something else with that. I think Levine is the most realistic of all of them because on the Ringer NBA show, I peddled a conspiracy that the DeRozan thing is the Bulls saying, we think this guy is a reasonable facsimile of your production and we got him for 85 mil. You want $200 million? That's not happening, Zach Levine. Well, and on top of that,

you know who Levine's closest friend on the Bulls was? Thaddeus Young. Oh, I was going to say Tomas Zadoransky. I don't know if him and Tomas were kicking it. All right. I, you know. So, Waz, I thought the same thing you did. You bring in DeRozan.

He becomes basically a lot of the same stuff you were getting from Levine. And then you flip Levine for Simmons, if you think you might do that. And Simmons actually makes way more sense with that roster because you have Vucevic, you have DeRozan, you have Lonzo. You have real offensive players that Simmons can kind of be the glue for. Pause. How do Lonzo and Ben Simmons coexist? How does that make sense?

I mean, Lonzo can actually shoot on the spot. That's good. He's actually got two years straight of, you know, basically like 37, 38% shooting. Preach wise. At pretty good volume. Like, I think he could shoot it. I just think the Bulls, look, again, and I'm kind of repeating myself from the Ringer NBA show, but it's like, Bill, if somebody asked me about my job at the Ringer, like, how's

it going? You know, maybe my contract is up. And I said in public, well, I just want the Ringer to show me respect. Like, that's a weird ass thing to say. Like, that's weird to say about your current employer. I just want them to respect me. Like, Zach Levine is of the belief that they're not going to max him out. They don't think he's worthy of the max amount of money that he's going to be eligible for.

Which means to me, the Bulls are like, okay, you want the max? You're not getting that here. Bye-bye. So I could see them maybe saying, look, or even like if you could repurpose Ben Simmons, whatever, I could see them saying, let's get stuff for this guy while we still can. Well, Zach Levine on the playoff series, he's won. You would have thought they would. Oh, wait, they haven't made the playoffs with him.

I like Zach Levine. He's grown on me the last year. I was in the anti-Zach Levine camp and he kind of won me over last year. I really liked how he played. I thought he was really good. I like how he's played in the Olympics, but he also really hasn't done much yet. And it would make me, I mean, as a winning player, as the focal point of a team that's trying to win multiple playoff series and it would make me a little nervous. He's been in the league for a while. I feel like he's a really nice fit with Philly. I think that trade makes sense. Who throws in stuff for that trade? Because Darryl, I guarantee Darryl's like, no, no, we got to get more

stuff. I look at that trade and I'm like, after the playoffs Ben had, we might be good as a 1v1 with that one. And I look at that trade and I'm like that we might, after the playoffs Ben had, we might be good as a 1v1 with that one. And there's been some great 1v1s over the years, right? We had Kid Marbury, I think was my favorite. My favorite is Westbrook Wall. Yeah, because you got rid of him. The 30 games of Russell Westbrook that I got to enjoy this spring will be an all-time high water mark for me as an almost Bullets fan. See, I'm of complete opposite belief.

To me, if I'm the Bulls, Zach Levine has identifiable traits that work in a playoff setting. I.e., the man can shoot the lights out of the freaking ball. He can create for himself in a one-on-one setting. Like, he has clearly identifiable things that you need in the playoffs. To me, Zach Levine is no different than what Devin Booker was before those eight bubble games. Good point.

Like, there was no proof of concept because he hadn't yet gotten to the playoffs. It's just like, well, if he's so good, why haven't they done anything? Then his context changed, and he goes into the playoffs, and you're like, this guy can get stuff done against real playoff defenses, right? So if I'm Chicago, I'm like,

I just watched your guy bomb in that setting. And although Levine hasn't gotten a chance to prove it, we see it year after year. Doing what he does in the playoffs is valuable. So to me, if I'm the Bulls, I'm like, yeah, I'll take Ben Simmons, future picks, anything else you want to throw in there. And yeah, because I don't want to pay this dude anyway. I agree

with Waz. I would rather have Levine if I'm the Bulls. I think Simmons might have slightly more value. But I think that's a huge risk for the Bulls. I do like the idea of him on that Bulls team though. But I think where he lands is Sacramento. I think that's the trade that makes

the most sense. It wasn't lost on any of us that they took yet another point guard in the draft. So they have Halliburton, Mitchell, and Fox. You put Simmons in there. You give him his own team. It's close to LA. It's an hour flight. He kind of gets his own squad Sacramento's going nowhere anyway Sacramento was close to LA it's an hour flight

when you're making 35 a year it's close it's a 45 minute helicopter who from Clutch is on Sacramento who will make Ben Simmons feel comfortable in Sacramento I don't know i don't think any of their major dudes because that that's the move that i could see daryl making

right daryl's like oh you think you have leverage why don't you go try out the kings for a little while buddy let's go see you let's go see you enjoy uh Cowtown. Do we like Fox? Because KOC and I, I think, are in the not positive. Fox is a top 30 guy. He plays for fucking Sacramento. Who knows if we like Fox or not? So, Bill, I watched Fox come in here in L.A. against the Clippers in 1920 season. and he's ripped them to shreds like Kawhi couldn't do

anything Paul George couldn't do anything Pat Beverly couldn't do anything and I was like god damn like this is the dude that I want to see all the time right however that's not what he does on a regular basis he hasn't shown that consistency of just ripping people's hearts out. However, I think he's a better shooter than Ben Simmons. He's a better driver than Ben Simmons. Not that he's good at either one of those things. He's an elite athlete at his position. I would take him in a heartbeat over Ben Simmons.

But again, that's just me. I don't understand this sort of overqualified Draymond Green or 6'9 Rondo stuff. I'm not into it. It's not for me. I guess where I struggle, and I think I was a bigger Ben Simmons defender the most because I really value his playmaking. And especially in the regular season, he would have games where you're like,

man, this guy going downhill. It's basically like him and LeBron and Giannis as like the three guys who are just unstoppable. And then defensive, the way he can switch and all the different guys he could guard. He's just an amazing asset defensively. But after that playoffs, I can't shake it. To me, I'm going to go over to

football house. It's like that quarterback that just bombs in a football post-season to the point where you're just like, it's just not going to happen. You're not going to be able to win the Superbowl with this guy. He doesn't, he's missing it. He's not accurate enough. He's, he, he folded. He's not big enough. He's, he, he folded. He's not big enough. He's not fast enough. Whatever it is, you just kind of realize like, oh, this isn't happening. And I, I did feel like I got there personally with Ben Simmons last year, where it's like to only shoot three times in seven fourth quarters.

That's not a slump. That's like, something's broken. And I don't know how you rebuild that the best thing that ben simmons could have done after they lost was was come out and say that he had um a mental problem because i got it's like a like some sort of like kick up or some sort of he lost confidence yeah yeah you're right i'm seeing him i'm seeing a sports psychologist to try to regain confidence in my shot. I'm not even kidding. His brand needs some rehabilitation.

And people in his camp should have been saying, look, man, we need to shore up your head. Well, A, your head, and then B, your tradability. Instead, they went the other way. They went the other way they went the other way did you not see the sizzle reel of ben simmons taking the slowest turnaround jump shot against a pudgy six foot nothing dude like i'm like bro like you're going not even you're going quarter speed against a guy who's 5 11 and you made one fade away and y'all put a video out of this

like yo i'm in the lab working we're like really you're what lab this is the problem like clutch should know better right like this is my my my quandary here well yeah but a lot of it is ego management too like clutch could know they can know what they want to implement as far as like, yo, Ben, trust us. We're going to take it this way. But they have to sell it to their client, which I don't know that Ben Simmons is that type of guy. All I know is his last Instagram post is him clicking open the door

to his Ferrari. And it should be something other than that. That would be my recommendation. If I was in his camp, I would be you know we need you should be in the gym we should see you at full sweat we shouldn't see anything else it should be daily clips of you shooting i took another yeah i took another thousand free throws today that's right here's a quick wise you played hoops in the most uh over competitive place on the planet for hoops, New York City. I worry about Simmons' competitiveness.

And I'm asking both of you to look at this under the prism of, is this a competitive person? Because I think we've seen flashes of it, but I go back to the LSU thing. I don't mean to totally psychoanalyze the guy, but he basically checked out of that college season for reasons that remain unclear. He decided not to play on the Olympic team this year when he had already committed to it for reasons that I guess, cause he was coming off whatever. He, we watched him pull back from major playoff games that were televised on national TV against other famous basketball players where he just didn't look like he wanted to be there.

And it, do you feel like competitiveness is a gene? Is it something you can fix? Is it something you can get better that, or by the time you're 25, are you are who you are with that? I just, I don't,

I don't think it's something he can't get over. I just think he's vain. I think he's very image conscious. I think he likes to look cool. I've said this before. The difference between him and Giannis, Giannis is like, yeah, I'm going to airball some free throws along the way and look horrible. But guess what? That's the shit my team needs for me to win. Like I'm willing to look like an idiot,

like a scrub at times in service of getting my team to the mountaintop. Like that's the difference. Like Giannis doesn't mind looking bad up there. It's not going to stop him from putting his head down, going downhill, getting fouled and going up to that line all by himself and figuring it out. Ben Simmons ain't do that shit one time. Not once. Why? That's fair. He just doesn't want to look bad. That's why he doesn't take jump shots. He knows he's going to miss and it's going to make him look bad. That's why he shies away from contact when he's going to the rim because he doesn't want to be up there and completely

break a free throw. Even though Doc Rivers at the end of a press conference is like, yo, even if you're shooting 51%, that's 110 offensive rating. That's good for our team. The math is in our favor. He still doesn't do the shit. So to me, that just means like he's more concerned with looking cool than anything else. He just wants to look cool. The guy, and I think it's an awesome question, BS, because it really will determine the next chapter for Simmons. The guy I was thinking of as you were asking the question is Andrew Wiggins. I have that question. Every time I watch Wiggins, I wonder. Now, I don't think that the lack of what seems to be competitive fire with Wiggins

is tied to vanity. I don't think he's, he's, you know, he has a God-given talent that, you know, he he's been blessed with, uh, the, you know, just, just, uh, 0.0001% in the world at this particular skillset. And he's always been good at it since he was like eight years old. Right. And it seems like he could take it or leave it. That's what I see out of Wiggins. But I don't, I mean, I think you're absolutely right, Bill. The going all the way back to LSU. How does LSU not make the NCAA tournament with Ben Simmons? And then it's like, it's the coach's fault.

I think the reason, look, we don't mean to pile on the guy, but the reason this matters is I really do think he's a genuinely gifted unique basketball player 100% I think his on the defensive

I agree with this athlete side he's sniffing the Kawhi Pippen yeah I totally agree all time territory

like this totally agree his ability to guard Trey Young all the shit he did against Trey Young and then next shit he did against Trey Young and then next game he can guard Durant

and his, just that ability is so unique and I want to see him on a winning team and also like his passing and how unselfish he is and it's just a shame.

I've thought for years that him and Embiid made no sense together and I think we all kind of accept that now. To me, Philly has to trade him. Remember, Daryl walked in and said, I have an open mind.

I want to give this... No, they tried to trade him. They tried to trade him for Harden. I'm reminding you what he said. I'm just saying what he said. Do you think that fucked up Simmons? No, I don't think it fucked up Simmons because, again, we have examples

of main guys, right? Like Simmons, you're the number two. It ain't Tobias Harris, okay? Nobody's looking at Tobias Harris for answers in tough playoff moments. It's you and it's Joel. We have an example of Shaq. We have an example of Giannis.

Bad free throw shooters who it didn't change how they approach the game. Right. It didn't change the decisions they made in fourth quarters. No, it obviously changed. The stat is out there. Ben Simmons averaged 11.5 drives combined the last two regular seasons. 11.5 drives per game. That's what Ben Simmons averaged. In that damn last playoff series he played this year, he averaged five. Half. That's just empirical data that you're playing different from what you're used to playing, and it only could be for one reason. You're scared. Right.

You're playing not to fail versus. I think the Giannis thing is a great comparison. He was like, cool, I'm going to miss some of these. It's fine. I'm good. I'm like a goldfish swimming around the bowl. I'm fine. I'm not thinking about anything that happened. All right, coming up.

We've talked a lot of basketball this week, a lot of signings. What we haven't talked about is the Knicks since in the last 48 hours. Waz's team. We're going to do that in one second. All right, so the Knicks, they pulled off a Kemba Walker buyout thing for $8 million. Their roster has seemingly fallen into place for the next two years. We found out a lot of team option stuff that I did not have the info on on Tuesday. I thought New Orleans' Noel three years, $32 million was an atrocity. But now it looks like that's a two-year deal only. And a lot of those

deals, the Derrick Rose, I think Fournier's three years, maybe team option for four, stuff like that. But they have a little more flexibility than it seemed like a couple of days ago. And then with Kemba, the team's kind of in place and they have a lot of movable contracts. I didn't mind the Fournier deal. I still feel like for the stuff that he brings to the table offensively and how malleable he is, maybe you're overpaying by $2 million a year. It doesn't really ultimately matter. I don't think he made sense for the Celtics either.

But the Knicks basically ran back last season-wise. They ran back last year's team. They flipped Bullock for Fournier, which makes sense because Fournier is more of a playmaker. He's a little more of a streak shooter. Shot creation, yeah. They're buying a little low

because he had a bad Celtics experience, partly because of COVID. They get Kemba, who at $37 million is a disaster. At $8 million is worth a flyer. I think he's done. I don't think his knees will ever be the same, but it's worth a flyer for them.

Then they basically protected all the other assets they have. My question is they're not anywhere near the Nets and Bucks. They're probably not on the heat level either. They're in that third level. Ultimately, what are they trying to do here? What's the plan?

It feels like to me they're in the superstar forces his way to a location mode uh they want to make themselves attractive enough for when again say a dame say a bradley beals say whoever um great player says i'm getting the hell up out of dodge i want to go there a la anthony dav two years ago. They feel like they have enough pieces, or even James Harden last year, they have enough pieces that they can say, all right, we're going to send you a shit ton of future picks and assets, and we have some young players that you can talk yourself and your fan and your owner into thinking

like, all right, this guy has the pedigree of a top three pick, top six pick, whatever, plus the future first, plus, you know, salary to match. And that's basically how these damn disgruntled superstar deals get done. I think they've put themselves in a position to do that if the time sort of presents itself. And then, you know, you got to figure with the Kemba Walker situation, the Knicks of old would have just straight up traded for Kemba's contract and gave shit away to get him. That's what they would have done in the past.

The fact that they got this guy for $8 million, he's one of the most universally beloved players of his era as far as like people around the league just love the guy, have nothing but warm and positive feelings towards him, except for Brad Stevens. It's like, you know, I think this is a win-win for the Knicks. The homecoming angle is cheap. There's no real commitment to it. It's a win-win for them. And again, they have upgraded what they did last year. Now, do I think they overperformed? They're

probably still a seventh seed talent-wise this season, even with the roster upgrade? Sure. I watched Boston play last year. Nobody would say the Knicks talent is better than theirs. And Evan Fournier didn't change their freaking lives last year. So, you know, we all saw that, but I think they're in a holding pattern of sorts where it's like, all right,

we're waiting on a superstar domino to fall. I totally agree with every aspect of, of what was just said. Remember we were like six months ago from the Knicks being an absolutely hopeless situation. And now there is hope. Like, look how quick the script flip. The script flip. Look how quick.

And, you know, it was a combination of Tibbs plus Randall plus, you know, a team chemistry that nobody could anticipate. Nobody had the Knicks competing for the four seed or five seed last season. It all happened quickly. It's a great example of how important chemistry is and how everybody getting on the same page. They created an identity for themselves out of whole cloth. Everybody was on board and they, they have improved slightly. Uh, you know, uh, uh, Fournier and, and Kemba are better than Bullock and Alfred Payton. So, you know, good for them.

And I think it's exactly what was said. It creates a new identity for the Knicks. And remember, we have precedent for what was, is talking about Carmelo Anthony picked the Knicks 15 And remember, we have precedent for what Waz is talking about. Carmelo Anthony picked the Knicks 15 years ago. He's like, I want to go to the Big Apple. Imagine what rising superstar is in the league right now that's going to get credit for taking the Knicks from the level that they're at now, which is a serviceable second tier play playoff level and takes them up to be competing for the Eastern Conference. Think about what that does for whatever rising superstar gets interested in the Knicks

and gets MSG rocking with those playoff series opportunities and what that does for whatever to-be-named rising NBA superstar. It's interesting. It's attractive. I like it. It's all set in the stage for the Embiid trade two years from now when he goes on to play 27 games over the subsequent three years after the trade. In classic Knicks fashion.

That's the Knicks legacy. I think there's a little Embiid shadow here with his relationship with Leon and Wes. I think, you know, I'm talking down the road, but I'm sure they're watching every Lakers season too. Because, you know, we say this with Tom Brady too, but at some point the LeBron thing's going to end. We didn't think Kobe was going to end and then all of a sudden he was retiring.

The LeBron thing will have a finish line at some point. And the Lakers might be looking two years down the line if we hit that finish line of, all right, time to cash in, trade Davis, rebuild. I'm not saying that'll happen, but they're in position to strike. They need Toppin to be better. The biggest thing that could happen for them is for Toppin to build better. The biggest thing that could happen for them is for Toppin to build himself into more of a trade asset. And I'm sure they're sitting there waiting for Dame too, if the Dame thing ever unravels. And my thing is, if you're the Knicks, I think you should be operating like this, right? There's a way that Milwaukee has to do business, that

Memphis has to do business, that OKC has to do business. They got to operate by nailing everything on the margins. And they do have to take those swings in the draft because, let's face it, Dame Lillard's never going to say, get me to Memphis now. Nobody is ever going to do that. Nobody's going to force their way to OKC. So those guys, they have to operate a certain way. If you're the Knicks and you believe in what you have to offer to a superstar as far as your market, as far as, you know,

just all the amenities that come with being a big deal in New York City, then you should be operating this way, right? And treading water as a seventh seed isn't the end of the world

because playoff basketball in MSG is a thing and it's a lot of fucking money. Well, of the world. Because playoff basketball in MSG is a thing. And it's a lot of fucking money. Well, and the culture, all the guys they added, that helps too. Kemba's a renowned great guy. I would say one of the five or six most popular guys in the entire league. They had him. People like Fournier.

I think in Celtics, stint was short, but there was good feedback about him. And just in general, the culture is in place, which is the biggest thing they needed to repair. They had hit a situation where major free agents weren't even meeting with them. Durant never met with them in 2016. When you hit that point,

it's dark. Yeah, well, here's the concern that I have, Bill Simmons. There is a scenario under which both of our beloved basketball teams may not make the, we're going to be the playing. Thank God. They're bringing back the playing game. Like the East got better.

The East is better. The East improved quite a bit. I mean, you know, you, you have to, uh, you, you have the, the Brooklyn, Milwaukee, Philly triumvirate at the top. And you, if you assume that Philly is going to work out this Ben Simmons thing at some point and get something of value in return, it's that those big three. And then Miami took a giant step forward with, with Lowry. And then the next class is Atlanta who made the effing conference finals and is running it back. They brought John Collins back the Knicks who the Knicks just improved.

And the Pacers essentially are, you know, getting back guys that were injured last season and had the functional equivalent of getting, you know, brand new players and TJj warren and and lavert right uh yeah and and and and the bulls just made a significant improvement as well god damn what's washington and boston supposed to do and by the way i've been mentioning charlotte well you're in more trouble than i am i think yeah just just a bit just a bit more i have i agree but i'm just saying. I have Nets, Bucks, drop. Sixers, Heat, drop. Hawks, Celts, drop. Bulls, Pacers, Knicks. That's nine.

And all of those teams have reason to think that they could get to a four seed. Yeah. Right? Absolutely. You get one injury somewhere, you're a little better than you thought. And then that Hornets, Raptors, Wizards thing,

I liked what the Hornets did. And then now there's marketing rumors with them, which I still think we could see. But really the only three that you're writing off are the Magic and the Cavs and the Pistons. The Raptors are kind of, I don't know what they are, but I'm not going to write them off, right? You can't.

No, no, no. They're too smart. Especially since they just made Masai Ujiri the czar, the freak and the Kaiser of the Toronto Raptors. Yeah. That was crazy. He basically gets right of first refusal on Adam Silver. He couldn't even explain the guy's new role.

It's right of first refusal on Adam Silver's job. It was like 40 things in there. He gets to run the ringer if he wants. We should look and see. Whatever point the books start putting up odds. Toronto as a dark horse candidate for Ben Simmons, I could absolutely see that as a destination because of the stability over the organization.

Masai and Nurse, and what an opportunity for him to rehabilitate himself. And the town would absolutely... Towns like Portland and Toronto that have a nurturing relationship with the team, I could see Ben Simmons in Toronto. It would not shock me. Yeah, we should have probably mentioned them with Ben Simmons teams. Because it's Siakam plus. Siakam plus.

Yeah, I've seen that out there. Obviously, Ben Simmons is a better player. That's a loss if you're Philly. If you're Philly, you're not. You're like, wow, this is what we turned. We got Siakam, who got suspended last year and went off a cliff for a little while there. That's what we turned Ben Simmons into.

At a certain point, you got to start talking yourself into CJ McCollum if you're going to do that. What? I can't believe we're back on Simmons. What's the most fun Simmons trade? Because I feel like just the 1v1 him for Levine is the most fun trade where we would have the Simmons reinvention in Chicago, the third biggest market we have. And then we'd

have Levine on a really good team with good players around him on a team that actually needs all the things that he's good at. And coming off the Olympic experience as house knows, I love trading for guys after they've been in the Olympics, when they've worked with all the stars and gotten the little tips and little tricks and watching so-and-so waking up at five in the morning and all that stuff. They always seem

to have a good year after that. What were you going to say, Wes? To me, the most fun would have been him on Portland with Dame, though, and allowing him to be the Draymond to Dame's staff, right? Where whenever teams put two on the ball on a pick and roll, you can just give that pass to Ben Simmons at the top of the key. And he's going downhill with a head of steam, you know, three on two. And that's like, that's dangerous. That's fun. That's like players who actually compliment each other

in an ecosystem that makes sense for everybody. Well, wait a second though. You're talking Portland Dame Lillard, not Olympic Dana Barrows Dame Lillard. Here you go with the Dame standard. You're talking the slander NBA Dame Lillard, not the guy. FIBA ball.

I'm not letting a four game stretch for Dame Lillard define not the guy. FIBA ball. I'm not letting a four-game stretch for Dave Lillard define how great that man actually is. Apparently, Dave time is only American time zone. You don't have to play with that sponge ball. That's all. You don't want to play with that sponge ball. It's the ball's fault. So I think the Portland thing would be absolutely the best.

So you would enjoy Portland the most. If it's CJ McCollum and a lot of stuff. Yeah. Dame and Ben Simmons I think would make a lot of sense. Doesn't feel like enough. I don't know. I mean, especially now, I mean, when Darren Moore is calling people and asking for Jason Tatum

and future picks and all that, obviously it doesn't feel like that right now, but Riyad, don't worry. As training camp starts and Ben Simmons is holding out and he's coming in finally and he's huffing and puffing and he's giving these cryptic press conferences. As that starts to happen, trust me, that damn trade demand, what more he's asking for is going to become way lower.

How about Danny Green deciding to sign back up for two years, 20, and the right to be thrown into 17,000 trades on the internet over the next two years? It's like, welcome to the rest of your life, Danny Green. He's just going to be in trade rumors. He knows this. He's good with that. Do you think there's any possibility?

The one I was thinking about, poor Jamal Murray is out for the extended run here. Oh. You know, Ben Simmons and Jokic have a little, I could see a chemistry there, right? And is Jamal Murray like fair compensation for Ben Simmons? Like he was pretty effing impressive

in the bubble. And Denver wants to make a run, right? I don't think. I just feel like they care too much about the chemistry stuff with that team. That's a really close team. I'm not bringing Ben Simmons and Clutch on that team. All right. All right.

I'm not bringing that up. But that's part of it too, right? We have to see where Clutch is. Where has Clutch got his Clutches? I think Ben Simmons needs to be on a team where somebody else is in charge of perimeter, ball handling, shot creation. He's proven that ain't his bag. We kept calling him Magic Johnson, LeBron-esque, meaning dudes that run the offense for the lion's share of the possessions.

They're on the floor for their team. They're initiating offense for their team, and they're doing it efficiently, generating quality looks all over the place. Ben Simmons ain't that. He needs to play next to a guy that can actually do that so he can be free up to be the crazy athlete that he is. That's right. Denver re-signed Austin Rivers.

Can we do a little role play I don't know it depends I'm going to be Dennis Schroeder you be my two agents hey guys guys it's Dennis again I'm really starting to panic here have we

heard anything what's going on anybody anything what are we doing? Dennis, I got to tell you, Toronto has some great hotels with great five-star lotions. I think Toronto, look, you're a slide right. Kyle Lowry is going. I know it's cold, but they have a very wonderful and diverse food culture up there. You're going to be able to get fantastic caribbean food syrian food have you

ever tried syrian food dennis but look uh it's a short flight from from from toronto down down to florida i mean look toronto just played a whole season in tampa they know that flight that flight pattern exists dennis so look just just think about it dennis look when we told you that they offered you fred Van Vliet money and you turned it down, we discussed that this might be the situation. However, check your email. There's the premium Rosetta Stone in there. You can brush up on your Mandarin.

See you in China, brother. It's in see you in China range for him? Oh, no. I didn't realize. This him. Oh, no. I didn't realize. This is the thing, Bill. He probably banked on the Lakers making a deep playoff run and being like, yo, they gave Ronda washed up ass a nice little deal just from the Lakers deep playoff run.

What's it going to be for me when we're in the championship or even winning it? I'm young. I contributed to it. XYZ. However, Y, Z. However, what he couldn't have seen happening was AD getting hurt and you basically being the de facto second best player on the team now and doing absolute dick and the whole world watching it

and being like, yeah, I'm good. I'm good. It's tough. He should have learned from Eric Bledsoe, who grabbed that giant extension from Milwaukee during the two weeks when he was red hot. All right, more role play. I'm Pelicans GM David Griffin.

I'm not calling my agents. I'm just calling Woz, and I'm just thanking him for being nice to me at the Ringer NBA show a couple of days ago. So David Griffin, I'm just going to walk through the timeline of this. Cause I was actually thinking about this trades drew holiday for a bunch of stuff, right? That might turn out to be nothing because Giannis is going to dominate the league for the next few years.

And then the summer now is like, I need to get an experienced guard. I need to get somebody. I need to get just a known quantity of guard. Chris Paul, Kyle Lowry, a Kyle Lowry type. First of all, wouldn't all of us rather have Drew Holiday than Kyle Lowry? Their whole off-season plan was to get Kyle Lowry, a guy who is older and worse than Drew Holiday, the guy they traded.

And then they end up with Devontae Graham, who they have to give up first-round pick for, and he can't guard anybody. If I was a Pelicans fan, I would be losing my mind. I'd be like, my God, we lost Davis, and the fucking number one pick

fell out of the sky, and we got Zion, and we're going to fuck that up, too. All you're really talking about, though, is the fan base in though is the fan base in Seattle or the fan base in Las Vegas because name me a Pelicans fan. Who's the number one Pelican?

That team is run by the Benson family who is the Saints and ain't nothing else. That's exactly right. Here's the thing and I want to defend my man Griff, although he's made moves that even I would question. Okay, good.

I would hope so. I think the first one is the Drew thing was this context here. His contract was coming up. They didn't want to pay him all the money the Bucks just gave him when they thought their timeline with Zion was one thing, right? And now we learn,

like, no, you don't have any time for this. We're trying to start doing this right now. I'm sick of how this team performs right now. I think Griff thought he was on a certain timeline and now he's realized that he's not. That's how you see the whole, all right, we're willing to pay 90 million for Kyle Lowry, which was the market rate for the guy, but not give Drew Holiday his $135 million contract to be better and younger. However, when you go out and you trade for Steven Adams, who it's just like, it's obvious that's not a fit with Zion. Like obvious. And Eric Bledsoe, it's kind of obvious these guys aren't Zion fits.

And apparently, allegedly, this is what's been said, Zion's camp has to like call him like, yo, Zion doesn't want to play with guys that clog the paint. Like if people had to tell you that, that seems that strange, especially again, and I'll never get tired of this bill. I am the president of the Miles Turner fan club. I don't know why teams refuse to save this man from Indiana. Like when a guy like Miles Turner, who like, even if you want to say, all right, he had a bad year from three last year, he's

a threat from three that Steven Adams just is the opposite of. He's a damn good defender. How about just keep Drew Holiday and grab Miles Turner and call it a day a year ago? That would have been nice. That would have been great. It's tough because I feel

like now you can't go back and you had all these assets and directions you could go. And now you're just in a worse spot. And you're on your third coach, right? Which we know is the nice GM trick where I, and I'm starting to get heat from upstairs. I time to throw the coach under the bus,

right? Like you're running out of chips to play. It was, it was easy though. Cause Vin was diving under the bus so that you didn't, that's right. It was, you're running out of chips to play. It was easy, though, because Van Gundy was diving under the bus, so you didn't have to throw. You just had the bus pull in front of your arena, and then Van Gundy dove up there.

He drove that bus off a cliff on a nightly basis. I mean, you know, the lack of fourth-quarter discipline on that team. I think it all goes back to really underrating two things with the holiday trade specifically. Because if you're going to trade him, did they make the best trade? The answer is obviously no, because they got a bunch of picks back banking on Giannis maybe not signing Milwaukee.

He did. You had to take two contracts back, George Hill and Bledsoe that weren't great. You had to figure out what to do with them. Here's the thing. They had Warriors trades to make. I feel like they could have gotten that Minnesota pick back plus maybe Wiseman. I don't know. I feel like the Warriors, there was... Remember that little stretch there when it seemed like the Warriors were really a fit for him and he just opted for a different trade and it's still the kind of trade

that the Warriors would want to make but they could have gone that direction too. I just feel like it was the wrong trade and the wrong read. You got to think

in GM terms, Bill. When you get future assets, you get to tell all your media friends. Job preservation. Yes, I'm a genius. Watching the future, how great we're going to be.

I have picks in in 2050 we're gonna be amazing right like that's that's part of the calculation that they always make it's like we want to have more bites at the apple but it's like yannis antetokounmpo is a freaking machine i'm sorry the the bites are gonna be rotten like you know you know, I think the Drew Holiday thing was excusable at the time. I agree. It was just a bad joke. Zion's a really young guy and I have time

to get this thing figured out. And now it's like Zion might take a qualifying offer in his fourth year even if we offer him a max extension and just leave

an unrestricted free agency. He's not going to do that. It's a bluff, man. Yeah, he's not doing that. I'm glad you're on the same page. It's too much money. It's too much money. Especially like his family.

They're not going to be like, all right, let's roll the dice. With his injury history, you got to take the money. I think what they could do is demand a trade like in December, January and just be like, if you don't trade me,

now they can start playing poker. If you don't trade me now, I'm going to sign the qualifying offer, but knowing you're not really going to do it. Can I pile on what Waz said about picks? Because I was looking. I actually, don't ask why, but I wrote down all the picks that Presti got just from Chris Paul

and whether it was actually worth all the time and effort. So the original Chris Paul trade was Ricky Rubio, Kelly Oubre, Ty Jerome, and a 2022 protected first. Okay? They trade Schroeder for Danny Green in the 28th pick.

They trade Ricky Rubio the 28th pick and the 25th pick for the 17th pick and they 25th pick for the 17th pick. And they took Poku. They take Danny Green and they trade him with Ferguson and Vincent Poirier for Al Horford, Theo Meladone, some prospect named Michi who people like, and a top six 2025 protected first from Philly that goes to top four the next two years.

So nice pick. Then they trade Horford and Moses Brown for Kemba and the 2021 first pick, which was 16th and a second. They trade that 16th pick for a protected 2022 and Washington's protected 2023. Neither will be in the lottery. And then they buy out Kemba Walker for how much? You think they bought him out for... That was what it was? That's what I heard. I thought I heard 20.

All right. So let's say it's 20. So they spent... They got, for all of this, they got Poku, Meladone, Michi, the foreign prospect, three protected firsts that will never be in the lottery, Meladone, Michi, the foreign prospect, three protected firsts that will never be in the lottery, and then a fourth protected

first from Philly that might be in the lottery. And then they paid Kemba Walker $20 million to buy him out, and they paid Horford $28 million not to play. So they spent $48 million on two guys. It's a lot of moving around for not really a lot, right?

I mean, it's not bad, but everybody acts like, oh, Prestige, let's fucking break out the five-star lotions. And it's like, all right. Look, I wish there was a planet bill or a way for us to rig it that OKC had to make every single one of those picks. And I bet you it would be Drek. Like, they're not going to get anything from it, right?

Like, they'll probably end up getting some good young guys from them just thinking on their own. But I just don't think these picks are going to bear fruit. I guess you get to throw them in when... You get to overpay. You get to be like, I want this. Here's $130 in the dollar. I will overpay for your 28th pick.

Here's more picks. I want that one. I want that guy. Because that's how it's been explained. Now they can get guys they like. They can go get them. All right, cool. All I know is Shade Gilgis-Alexander is 23 years old and had to sit out like 40% of the season last year. I'm pretty sure he would have been better off

just playing basketball. We saw this with Philly where you're building this culture of, what's the culture if it's built around picks and future assets? Bill, most importantly, most importantly, when your team, you've stripped the team and the cupboard is buried

and you know you're not going to be very good for a long time, it's important to get the idea out there like, look, it's going to take time because everything is going to be in the future. I just need unlimited time to get this thing back to when we had KD, Russ, Ibaka, and Harden. I just need time, right? Unlimited time. But as my man, Ethan Strauss- Rob Markman And now it's Poku and Giddy.

Rob Markman Yeah. But as my man, Ethan Strauss, always says, eventually you'll probably be good, but eventually we'll all be dead. So like, you got to get this shit done. I'm sorry. I'm not impressed by this draft pick accumulation shit. I don't, it's just- What about Michi? Have you studied Michi on YouTube? They got the rights to Michi.

I haven't lost Michi's clips. I mean, out of all the stuff they got, the best thing is possibly that Philly pick if like Embiid's gone. But Philly's also a team that's going to spend a ton of money regardless. I don't see them bottoming out. Look, I don't know if it's good or it's bad, but I think it's weird. Atlanta did this too, when they dumped Schroeder and they took back Carmelo's contract and they basically paid $30

million for like the 14th pick in the draft. I think, is that what first round picks are worth that aren't in the top five? It's worth like a $30 million investment to try to get the 16th pick? Like this Kemba trade, they got rid of Horford to take an extra year of Kemba, then bought out Kemba and got the 16th pick for some two protected picks that I don't even understand. This is all you need to know about the discourse. And this example always sticks out in my mind. It was when the Knicks got, they got Joaquin. They got rid of Robin Lopez.

They signed Joaquin to a dumb deal. But I remember the scuttlebutt was, not only did they, you know, sign Joaquin to a bad deal, whatever, but they were like, they got rid of Nick's asset. They were calling this guy, his name wasn't Jerry and Grant. It was Nick's asset, Jerry and Grant. This man is no longer in the NBA. The fact that he had been a first round pick the year before we were calling this guy and I'm like, I watched him play 80 times last year. He's nobody's asset, but because he was a first round pick and the way the discourse is shaped, it's like everything is asset accumulation and blah,

blah, blah portfolio and this. And it's just like, bro, where have we gotten in life where Jerry and Grant is a freaking asset? The man is no longer in the NBA. He was like, he never made it past his rookie deal. And the scuttlebutt was that the Knicks are idiots for getting rid of an asset for a guy that they thought could help the team. It's insane the way we talk about these dudes. House never has first round picks. He doesn't know what this is like. Although you somehow ended up with two this year.

And I'll say this. I like the Wizards situation a lot better than I like the Oklahoma City situation. Like, what's the scenario under which a super-duper star, an upper echelon player, willingly goes to Oklahoma City? Any time. I'll make it short. I'll say five years. But you could extend that out. It's a one-year pump and dump kind of situation there.

It's the Paul George model. You need to extricate yourself from a situation, get a year's worth of rehabilitation, and then move on to a winning situation. That's what Oklahoma City is going to be for the foreseeable future. I mean, that's the way it looks to me. And here's the issue with, well, we have all these picks. Then when the time is right, we're going to strike. But we just had a really good time. We just had a 2021 draft that had three guys that were worthy of being the first pick and they were sixth. And you would have thought on paper, use that sixth pick with more picks and move up and grab on those top three.

Guess what? None of those teams wanted to trade the top three pick. Even Cleveland, which I just expected to fuck that up. They're like, no, no, we're good. We're going to take Evan Mobley. He's going to be awesome. Thanks anyway. Whatever your offer is, we're good. We're hanging up. And I think that's where with these picks, it gets dangerous because you can't take all of them. I think what the Celtics situation was the best one where they get these Brooklyn picks and a year later, the Brooklyn owner's like, you know what? This was a mistake. I don't want to spend money anymore. I'm done. Cut costs.

We got to get out. And the Celtics, that was the all-time luckiest thing that we've seen in the last 20 years. In general, I don't know. These picks where you have, I like the picks they got from the Clippers and the picks New Orleans got from the Lakers. But ultimately, you're banking on two franchises that spend a shitload of money to all of a sudden not be good. You would almost need

like a Brooklyn Miracle situation. Or you're banking on Milwaukee who has Giannis to suddenly not be good. And odds are they're going to be good. I think we covered everything I wanted to cover. Did we miss anything? Oh, we didn't talk, House, you didn't say goodbye to Russell Westbrook. We got to do that before we go.

Look, I tip my hat. I get down on my knees and kiss his feet. It was a spectacular 30 games. He took a hopeless situation and turned it into something. He made Washington relevant for 30 games.

Washington made the playoffs last year. All of this is 100% attributable to one man and one man only. That's Russell Westbrook. I'm happy to have had him in my life. He brought some style to Washington, D.C. for 30-some games. And look, you know,

if you would ask me before last season started, will you agree to Russell Westbrook setting the all-time NBA record for triple-doubles? Will you agree to watching him accumulate the triple-doubles? Will you watch him make other people better because of how hard he plays, because of his commitment to his craft. And on top of all of that, turn him into a team that,

that started the season with three and a half NBA players. We got six NBA players now, Washington, DC. It's a miracle. He's a miracle worker. I love Russell Westbrook. And also bill,

I've talked myself into this Lakers thing working out. Um, I, I, I, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I was, listen. What happened to you? Too much time in the Valley at Tiki bars living at night. Listen, I was of the mind, like everybody else who considers themselves a serious NBA consumer,

like this is not going to work. It's a redundancy with LeBron. He can't shoot, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm just like, doesn't he just have to do the Rondo Schroeder role better than they did? Just like, we have to count on Bron to be like, yo, bro, just chill. Just do this stuff, this stuff, this stuff. And it's going to be great. Like all, we have to just count on Bron to be a great executive, be a great leader and explain to us exactly what he needs to do. A terrible, oh man, I like that tweet where he's like,

oh, watch when it comes together, blah, blah, blah. He deleted it. Oh, he deleted it? He was arguing with straw men. Who didn't think the Lakers would be good next year? I'm sorry, I interrupted you. I just think he's overqualified for the role they need him to do. And if he could just do it to the best of his capabilities,

that specific role is going to be good. It's going to be nice. I don't know what to say, Waz. I think Waz is right. I think Waz is right. What's happening to you guys? What is happening? He's overqualified to be a third banana, What's happening to you guys? What is happening? I believe in the Brody.

I'm on the Brody. He's overqualified to be a third banana, secondary ball player, man bench units, etc. All the things that they asked Dennis Schroeder and Rajon Rondo to do the last two years. And even to a certain extent, asking guys like THT to do at certain points. Asking guys like Caruso to do at certain stretches of games. Russell Westbrook is going to be way better at performing those duties than the guys that I

just previously mentioned. And then when LeBron and AD are on the court with him, it's just about, yo, Russ, run our shit, okay? Run our fucking shit. Listen to LeBron and this thing is going to be beautiful. He adds a transition component. He's, you know, Vogel has gotten every single player that they've gotten into that program to defend at a competent level. So I believe in Vogel's ability to get him to actually play some damn defense and, you know, work to his strengths on that end as far as athleticism and activity and all of that.

I've talked myself into this thing, Bill. I don't believe in the defense, but I do. I mean, I watched him play free safety. He's an awful defensive player. He really is. He's an all-time free safety, but...

But, Bill, you could have said the same thing about Rondo before you got into it. Had him play defensively No, because Rondo... Yeah, Bill, you could have said the same thing about Rondo before he got in there. Had him play defense for eight years. Yeah, but Rondo would have moments when he did play defense. Westbrook does some of the dumbest things I've ever seen in crunch time, defensively.

Like, jumping off the wrong guy. I mean, this is like an obsession with Rosillo. He does some of the weirdest things you will ever watch during a basketball game. And he's playing with LeBron, who's a genius. And I think he's going to break LeBron's brain a couple times. I really do. I think LeBron's going to

be like, did I just have a hemorrhage? Why did I just... Why did you do that? Listen, it's going to be fun as hell. It's going to be fun as hell. I said this when they made the trade. It's going to be really fun. And by the way, House, I think your team's going to be fun as hell. It's going to be fun as hell. I said this when they made the trade. It's going to be really fun.

And by the way, House, I think your team's going to be fun. I like Dinwiddie. I really like Aaron Holiday. I like your wings. I think you have big guys that could actually rebound and defend a little bit. Your team's not bad. I don't know about your coach.

We improved. You're definitely better. We went from three and a half NBA players to like six or seven NBA players. The problem is the East got better at the exact same time. That's what has me concerned. Can we talk about the real issue with the Wiz is that you brought in a swing man, white guy, who's going to wear a headband during games. And how is that going to go over in Chocolate City?

Has it all been discussed? How is that going to go over in Chocolate City? Has it all been discussed? How is that going to play out for him? I don't know if I'm allowed to say this and if the producer has to edit it. I would say don't say it. The single best attribute of Corey Kispert is his girlfriend. I welcome the two of them to Washington

D.C. Have you had a guy like Kispert? Googs was i think the last kind of i mean he's he is he is he's a luscious man he is a luscious he's sam decker was here for a minute uh and you know sam married well um but look uh you know that's i i i don't even know if – all joking aside, who's Kispert – how's he going to get any time? He's not. Who's he jumping ahead of? He's not going to play.

Out of all the guys he just brought in, unless there's a couple moves yet to be made. Yeah, because KCP is actually like a solid guy to have on a basketball team. And Kuzma, we've all been dying to see Kuzma just play a stretch four, which is the position he's been dying to play for four years. I agree. All right. Well,

as you broke my heart with your Westbrook take, but that's fine. House. It was great to see you as always. I'm glad we finally did this. It was a fun three man and, and house. I look forward to your text tomorrow when the France line goes to plus six 50.

And we have a real patriotic moral dilemma on what we're going to do. Well, I already know what I'm going to do, which is bet on my French fries. Waz, I dressed up for you. Next time we're together, I have a new fit for you. I promise. Of course. I appreciate you. As soon as you're in LA, we got to get together. And also I will be contacting you guys because I'm headed to Vegas on Sunday for the Summer League. And I'm going to need advice on what to play some bets on. Oh, we didn't do Summer League bets. Oh, yeah, please.

Save it. Save it for another one. Summer League starts on Sunday, just so y'all know. No, House, we're done. Let's take a quick break and we'll do Summer League bets. Then you guys can go and I got to do Fantasy Sleepers with Craig. We're back and then you guys can go and I got to do fantasy sleepers with Craig. We're back and then you guys can go. Here's the summer league odds from yesterday. Portland is eight to one. Why do they have the best odds? Does Portland try during summer league? Is this Detroit 10 to one? So that's Cade Cunningham, bunch of young guys. The Knicks

are 12 to one, Golden State 14 14 you got Kamingo Wiseman Moody all those dudes are playing Miami 14-1 Spurs 14-1 Memphis 14-1 I like Memphis

Memphis always has guys they always seem to try in summer league Orlando 16-1 lot of young guys in that team Houston 16-1 OKC 16-1

and then after that we could screw it any of those jump out to you, House? My two favorite are Orlando and Memphis. Two teams that are already super crazy young, and they

need all those guys to get reps to get the opportunity to play, and those guys are hungry. They're fighting for opportunities to get actual NBA time, so those would be my two picks. What do you have, Les? hungry. They're fighting for opportunities to get actual NBA time. Those would be my two picks. What do you have, Les?

I don't have a pick. I just have a PSA. I'm not one of these puritanical people who doesn't think sports betting should be legal. Of course, it should be legal. Adults should be able to do whatever they want. But there's got to be some type of regulatory body that you don't get to put Summer League on the damn sports book.

This is predatory. You're taking advantage of sick, sick people when you put these things. That's us. How are people betting on this with any confidence or knowledge? I actually have confidence. I'm looking at Orlando's roster.

Cole Anthony, R.J. Hampton, Jalen Suggs, and Franz Wagner. 16-1, right? Yeah. Let's do it. Let's do it. I'm going to send you. I'm going to Venmo some money to you. Let's do it.

I'll be in Vegas on Sunday. We're going to put it on 16-1 Orlando Magic winning the Vegas Summer League. There we go. Bye, guys. Good to see you. Later, y'all. Thanks, BS. Good to see you. Later, y'all. Thanks, BS. Thanks, Waz.

All right. Craig Horlbeck is here. He is one of our hosts of the Fantasy Show and the producer of the Rewatchables, which has its big 200th episode on Monday. I know you're here to promote that. Fantasy Sleepers. I asked to come up with seven. Let's rip through them before

we go on the pod. All right, let's dive right in here. So first I want to talk about the Jags. I like DJ Chark. Coming out strong with DJ Chark. Okay. Yeah, he's going like in the seventies, you get him like the sixth, seventh round. He was good in 2019 and he had like a thousand yards and eight touchdowns with Minshew and he kind of had a lot of buzz, but then last year the Jags went full tank. I mean, he, listen, he's kind of got Alan Robinson to him where the guys who have thrown to him in his career, he's got Gardner Minshew, Blake Bortles, Cody Kessler, Nick Foles. Last year he caught passes from Jake Luton and Mike Glennon. And so he had a bad year and everyone's kind of off on him, but like he's got Trevor Lawrence, who's the next Andrew Luck. Great deep ball thrower.

He was awesome with Tee Higgins at Clemson. I'm all in on the potential Jags air raid offense. Their defense is going to suck. They could just be the Big Ten team in the NFL. There's lots of good Lawrence buzz. Not surprising considering his pedigree, but I think it seems like he even has, oh my God, he's even better than we thought Buzz going early.

So I like that one. I wasn't expecting a bad lead off with DJ Chark, but I do like it. Is that too deep in the weeds for you or not deep enough? No, it was good. It was good. Give me a couple more. All right. Tyler Higbee tied down on the Rams.

You got to have a piece of the Rams this year. Like the Stafford Rams, they're going to throw it like 45 times a game. Higbee's cheap. He's like the number 10th tight end off the board. And if you don't get one of those big three guys up top, I like Higby. They traded away their other tight end, Gerald Everett. And literally every time Gerald Everett isn't on the field, Tyler Higby goes insane. Gerald Everett missed one game last year. Higby had three touchdowns in that game. And then I don't know if you remember the year before, Everett missed the final five games of the season and Higby went crazy.

He had four straight 100-yard games. He like won everybody their fantasy playoffs, whoever got him off the waiver wire. And yeah, man, the Stafford connection. If you don't want to spend money

on like Cooper, Kupp, or Robert Woods, I think Higby's an awesome pick. Well, you produced Flying Coach with McVay and Schrager. And, you know, McVay wasn't shy about talking on the Zooms before the pods about how he was just going to air it out this year. So it seems like

everyone on the Rams who is involved with throwing and catching is probably a place you want to be. Yeah, I mean, I even wanted Cam Akers the running back. I was all in on him because I thought he was going to be like Todd Gurley 2.0. He is really good. All right, give me a third one. All right, I'm staying in LA.

Mike Williams, receiver on the Chargers. I love the Chargers this year. Mike Williams has kind of been the guy who had a big week, so you would add him, and then you'd start him for two weeks, and he would suck both those weeks. Yeah, it'd hurt your feelings. You drop him, and then he's good,

and you're like, God. But I think this year's going to be good. Hate those guys. We got Herbert year two. We got new coaching staff. I mean, Anthony Lynn seems like a nice guy, hard knocks. But, you know, play calling lacked a little bit. They got Brandon Staley, who McVay loves,

was defensive coordinator for the Rams. And their new OC is Joe Lombardi, who was the quarterback's coach on the Saints for like the last decade. And they didn't add anybody on the Chargers. They lost Hunter Henry to your Pats. Like, Mike Williams is like always past the eye test. Every time you watch him and he's healthy, he's awesome. He's just not healthy

that much. I think Herbert's got to throw to somebody and he's their big red zone guy now. He does have games where it's like that's the eighth catch, 142 yards for Mike Williams and he does some catching traffic with three guys on him and you're like, why isn't this guy the sixth best receiver

in football? Yeah, he just goes too hard. He's like the outfielder who like sprints into the wall trying to catch a ball. He's just got to chill a little bit. It's like Brian Buxton. Yeah. But yeah, he's awesome. All right, next one.

All right. So this guy's not exactly a sleeper, but I like him to like really make the leap into like the top five running backs. Antonio Gibson on Washington. Second year guy. I love second year guys. And listen, he was a wide receiver in college. And then he just like showed up and played running backs. Antonio Gibson on Washington. Second year guy. I love second year guys. And listen, he was a wide receiver in college. And then he just like showed up and

played running back and was really good. And their coach is Ron Rivera and Norv Turner's son, Scott Turner. Well, Ron Rivera and Norv Turner coach Christian McCaffrey. Christian McCaffrey made his massive leap in year two. Antonio Gibson, they got Fitzpatrick. Washington's D is going to be good. They're going to be in every single game. I think Washington could win the NFC East. I think Gibson, huge breakout potential. That's another eye test guy too. Totally. I mean, he came out of nowhere for fantasy. I had him on one of my teams last year and he was just awesome. And I was like, so, you know when you have certain picks where you thought it was a good pick when you made it,

and then it exceeds your expectations, and then you're just really proud of yourself for no reason even though fantasy football is a complete waste of time a lot of people lucked into gibson i feel like and we're like oh yeah i do that i really liked them only because i read a thing before the season started about how much they liked them and i was like you do that thing where you're you're like quote detective in those pieces or you're like how genuine is this they were going nuts about that dude. And then House was telling me too. He's a beat reporter, darling. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

All right, fifth guy. All right, Brandon Ayuk on the Niners. He was good last year. I liked him. Yeah, and he was good with CJ Beathard and Nick Mullins. And now, you know, I don't know when Lance is going to start. I think he's going to start sooner rather than later. Week one.

I know, maybe. But Debo, listen, I'm done trusting Debo. He's hurt all the time. I think Ayuk is a better version of him. He's another guy who does the Byron Buxton thing. He just loves getting crushed on reverses by three guys. Yeah, Ayuk was like a top 20 receiver last year with CJ Beathard and Nick Mullins. And I think Shanahan and the Niners are going to come firing out of a cannon this year. So I really like IU. He wasn't a secret by the last six weeks. It seemed like he was putting up stats.

I think he finally got hurt right near the end. Something happened with him. But he had a stretch where he was pretty good. Oh, he was awesome. Yeah, he came on late. I mean, that's a legendary draft, the amount of receivers we got out of that draft. And even the rookie cards,

the 10th best guy in that draft is probably a good rookie card to put in his sleep. All right, sixth guy. So if we want to stick with quarterback, I think, you know how you draft a handcuff running back? You get like, oh, Tony Pollard behind Zeke Elliott. We should start doing that with quarterbacks. If you want to wait on quarterback, you go ahead and draft Brady, 10th or 11 or 11th and then just grab trey lance grab justin fields let them sit on your bench i love lance like he looks like dak prescott and all the uh tape we see online like let a guy set who cares like okay so you're not gonna have you know sterling shepherd as on your bench okay

have trey lance instead and then if he comes in and lights the world on fire, you don't have to like spend an arm and a leg to get him on waivers. So every year there's a rookie QB that it starts happening even before you realize it's going to happen. And you think that's, yeah. Yeah, I think Lance is the guy to have. And then you want the guys with legs

because like maybe it takes a while to get acclimated as a thrower, but like Fields and Lance, just on their legs alone. It's like what Jalen Hurts did last year. Just draft that guy so you don't have to worry about getting them on waivers.

Yeah, I like that one. All right, last one. This one's kind of boring, but Randall Cobb, don't underestimate Aaron Rodgers' ability to be a spiteful asshole. Spiteful. That's hilarious.

He's only 30 years old and he was like, listen, I'm not playing Unless you get me Randall Cobb I feel like he's gonna Throw to him now There's not a lot of competition Besides Devante Adams

I like Randall Cobb He got out of the Texans hellhole He's only 30 That's a late Late Late Late

Late rounder Yeah he's a good flex guy Yeah I have two for you I haven't done my homework yet Okay I'm all in on Jerry Judy I think there's some good Advanced metric stuff on him Yeah I don't done my homework yet. Okay. I'm all in on Jared Judy.

I think there's some good advanced metric stuff on him. Yeah. I don't know if you've seen some of it about how bad his quarterbacks were versus what his production was. I thought he passed the eye test for me too. Yeah, he had a lot of drops, but that doesn't matter. Everyone overrates that too much,

and he's an amazing route guy. But do you want Locke or Teddy throwing him the ball? I just feel like he's going to be better and the quarterback situation would be better because Locke was, Locke had just a weird year in general last year.

Yeah. You know, and even if he's healthy, that's going to be better for them. But if Teddy's in there, it's better for him too. And then I like year two receivers just in general.

Yeah, he's underrated. He was like just as good as CeeDee Lamb and Justin Jefferson, but he had a shitty quarterback and everyone's kind of off him now. Yeah. And I think IU, people are a little off of too where it's like CeeDee Lamb and Justin Jefferson, but he had a shitty quarterback and everyone's kind of off him now. Yeah, and I think IU,

people are a little off of too, where it's like, CeeDee Lamb, because of the Cowboys thing, is just always going to be overvalued. But Judy, I think people felt like he might've been disappointing last year. And I don't know,

I thought he had a couple drops, but talent-wise, it's there. Like the dude was open. If he was on Minnesota or Dallas, he would have had the same year all those other guys had. Yeah, that's one. The big one for me, and it won't be the last time I say it, like the dude was open if he was on Minnesota or Dallas he would have had the same year all those other guys had yeah that's one

the big one for me and it won't be the last time I say it Damien Harris was unbelievable for the Pats last year no I'm telling you

do you hear reports of Sony Michelle's taking first team reps what are they doing with him no no this is what Belichick does I feel like he

intentionally iced Damien Harris the last few weeks of the year because he didn't want to blow him up as an asset or get into some weird contract thing down the road with them or anything. As soon as they knew they were done, all of a sudden they stopped

using him the way you would use him if you're trying to win a game with your life depending on it. There's great... First of all, I test he was, I think, the best running back we've had probably since 2004 Corey Dillon, just for a guy who could hit the hole. There was was, I think, the best running back we've had probably since 2004 Corey Dillon, just for a guy who could hit the hole. But there was great... I think PFF had a whole thing about yards that you could possibly have gained out of all of your possible things. He was second in the

league. He got the most. He maximized all of his potential better than basically anybody, except I forget who was number one. But I just think all the Pats fans are like, that dude's fucking awesome. Why don't we give him the ball more? And I think he could have a big year. Listen, we talk about him on the fantasy show. He's obviously the best running back on the Pats.

Obviously. What everybody wants is Mac Jones and Damian Harris to start. And what's going to happen is Cam Newton and Sonny Michelle are goingian Harris to start and what's going to happen is Cam Newton and Sonny Michelle are going to start. You know that's going to happen. Well, Cam's supposedly

been good this week. It's kind of like back and forth. There's some Cam buzz. Yeah, I think Mac's, I mean, I think Cam can't throw the ball. I would just put Mac in as soon as possible.

I can confirm that he can't throw the ball since I had to watch it all last year. Also, for Damian, you want Cam off the field because Cam takes all the red, the goal line carries. Right. Well, I assume Mac Jones by week year. Also, for Damien, you want Cam off the field because Cam takes all the goal line carries.

Right. Well, I assume Mac Jones by week five. Yeah, they play the Bucs. They play the Bucs week four. I think Harris could be a slow burn where by the time we get to the key fantasy weeks, which is like week 10 to 17, that's when they'll be riding him.

And I'm all in. And I think, honestly, I think he's the most talented. Like, we had Curtis Martin, who was unbelievable, and we had Dylan for that one year. Like, he's as good as those guys were with just moving the line. He rolls over dudes,

and he makes dudes miss, and compared to like Maroney and Michelle and some of these other dudes we have, he's just... He's a Bama guy. There's a good history of the Bama running backs. I'm all in. By the way,

there's some Nikhil Harry comeback buzz. He's lighting it up. I don't know. Maybe from him alone. Deep leagues. He's kind of a best shape of my life guy, if you buy into that. Yesterday, I had a practice where he dominated. He was the player of the practice, was catching everything.

So he was a write-off. I thought he was done. I thought he was a sunk cost. Yeah, he could be a third or fourth guy, maybe. Yeah, I was excited that he was doing stuff. Pats have a lot of wide receivers now. And my guy, Nelson Aguilar, everybody's saying what a leader he is in practice. It's good stuff.

The Pats are going to be good this year. Everyone likes Mac Jones, but apparently he did an impression of Cam for his little rookie skin. Yeah, they love each other. I think 11-6. Just going to pencil him in. Might as well just bet him to win the AFC East then. I'm looking at it.

I was talking with Warren Sharper about that this week. This is right around the time when you can get unbelievable division value. Like the Jags are 7-1 right now. Which sounds like, oh, why would you bet the Jags? But the Colts don't have a quarterback. The Texans are a tire fire. And who else? The Titans?

Titans don't have a defense. And they lost Arthur Smith. So you have a three-team division because the Texans are out, cross them off. Yeah. And then the Jags, it's like easy schedule. They've had a ton of draft picks the last two years. And what if Lawrence is just really good right away,

like Herbert was? Remember how bad the Colts were? They drafted luck. Then the Colts went 11-5, year one. Oh, yeah. New coach, that also helps. New fresh blood. I don't know if he's going to be a good head coach,

but he won't be as bad as last year's coach. Anyway, I'm monitoring them as well. 7-1 on Fandle right now. All right. You can listen to Craig on the fantasy football show, the Ringer fantasy football show. Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, they're ramping it up. That's it for this pod.

I'm going to be gone for at least a week and a half. I'm taking a break from this podcast. First time in a while. I'm using this little territory between the end of hoops and summer signings and all that stuff to football and I am going to recharge

the batteries. Load management. Yeah, rewatchables is still going up. We banked a couple of those, including the 200, so we have that. But I will be back at some point around SummerSlam.

I'm not sure if it'll be right before or right after, but somewhere in that mid-August range. So thanks for listening. Thanks to Craig Horlbeck for producing and popping on at the end.

Thanks to Waz and House, and I will see you in about a week now.