The Bill Simmons Podcast - Why a Weird NBA Season Finally Went Full Weirdo On Us, With Tim Legler

Episode Date: January 28, 2026

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Tim Legler to discuss what a strange NBA season it’s been before breaking down Bill’s updated power poll (2:54). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Tim Legler Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠⁠⁠ www.rg-help.com⁠⁠⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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and now you can watch it on Netflix as well. We put up a bunch of old episodes, and then the newest episode we did on Monday, Zodiac, and we went longer than the actual movie, Zodiac. I think we were 13 minutes longer. You can watch it on Spotify and listen to it on Spotify. You can also watch it on Netflix, and you can watch a movie on Netflix.

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Anyway, coming up on this podcast, the one, the only Tim Legler, I had a bunch of stuff to throw at him. And I made him go through a power pole of all the teams 30 to 1. I ranked them. He played off my rankings. We've done this before as a Bill Simmons podcast. But this was fun. We had a lot to cover. And we got to talk about Charlotte again, which is really all I want to do is talk about Charlotte and the Celtics on my podcast at this point.

The other 28 teams, whatever. Anyway, that's all coming up next. We're going to take a break. I'm going to bring him Pearl Jam. And then Tim Leglin. The Bill Simmons podcast is presented by Fandul. Playoff mode is on. Fandlew's got it all.

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president DC, Kentucky, Wyoming, get a problem called 100 Gambler or visit RG-HALP.com. Or visit 8887-8-8-9-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. All right, our friend Tim Legler is here. We're taping this Tuesday afternoon, Pacific time because he had to fly. Congrats on actually getting a flight that successfully landed another part of the United States. He's in Cleveland, getting ready to do a Cavs game tomorrow. We're going to go through the week. I sent you my power pole that I did 30, 30 to 1. We're going to go down in order.

We've never done this before. You're going to enjoy it. I had a thing at the top that I didn't prep you on. I looked this up. Last 25 games, the best record in the league is 17 and 8, and the worst record in the league is 7 and 18. All 30 teams in the last 25 games are separated by 10 games, which raises the larger question of,

what's going on this season? Why does it feel like everybody is kind of near each other game to game? Anyone could beat anybody on a given night. Nobody is elevating above anybody else. What the hell is happening? So I agree with everything you just said. It's been the weirdest year that I've covered. Absolutely no idea on a given night what to expect.

You look at matchups and you think you got a pretty good feel for who should win the game. And you have no idea. And the reason is because I think it's because I'm seeing a greater fluctuation than I've seen in the guys being available, that's been going on for a while, but the availability of players being as tumultuous as it is. That leads to some of this. But I've also seen a tremendous fluctuation. The number of nights that I've seen teams, either been person when I've sat courtside calling a game, sitting at home on League Pass, watching the the game, the fluctuation and effort, there are nights when you watch teams and you can't believe how flat they are.

And I've seen more of that this year than any other time, which means on any given night, anybody is capable of beating anybody. It may sound like you think that's a cliche because it's the NBA, but normally that's not the case. If you have teams that are contenders, that are teams that are really playing for something later in the year, we all know that, and you get a team that is not. or a team that's got a bunch of young dudes or a team that's clearly not really

that concerned about winning games because they're trying to think about the future. And you get that team on your home floor mid-season in the dog days. You're supposed to beat that team down. And I've seen more nights now where those teams have been flat. Or one team, even in a matchup

where two really good teams are about to play and you're super excited about the game. And for whatever reason, one of them just comes out and they're so flat, it's almost borderline disinterested. And you just, it leads to these crazy scores, these really weird results. Some of the blowouts we've seen from bad teams beating down good teams.

Right. Not just winning like buzzer beaters. Like, oh, wow, they played hard. They thought they were in the game and they eventually went. No, they beat teams by 25 and 30 points on their home floor. So I agree with you. It's been a crazy year. Now, I think it's going to stabilize.

I think when you get to after the All-Star break, you get into early March, you're going to see some of this start to stabilize, and you're going to start to really hone in on that, whatever it may be, six, eight, ten teams, however many you are really interested in at the top, those are the teams you're going to focus on, you're going to see more consistent effort and more consistent availability of their guys at that point.

I think both of those things have led to it. I think that's a good answer. I would throw in a couple ideas I had as well. The three-point shooting, because there's more threes than ever. Every year there's been more threes than the last year since, I don't know, seven straight years. And you just have these nights like,

I might be able to beat O.K.C. if they shoot seven for 30 from three, right? Which they'll do from time to time. And you look at some of the losses they've had. They just didn't make threes. Conversely, I might be able to beat anybody if I go 20 for 42 from three. I just might, that just might be what I shoot today.

And you're probably not going to beat me because I'm getting 10 extra points. So I think the shooting's better. The depth is better. I think there's teams with benches this year where you look back to 2006 or you go to 2013, nobody had benches. Like, remember that one year the Nuggets were good

when they had Tye Lawson and all those guys? I was like, the Nuggets, they're so deep. Oh, there's like 20 teams like that now. I think that's one of the reasons the rappers have been good. Like, they can be down 10 in the first quarter, and then you watch their bench just bring them back. So there's depth. Then the third thing, which I did prep you on,

I do feel like there's a before and after moment happening with the coaching. I feel like we're moving into this new era of coaches. And I'm looking at guys like, for instance, Jordy, Darko, Charles Lee, Missoula, Adelman, Tiago Splitter. There's one more that I'm leaving out because, oh, and I'm Jordan. Those seven guys. I put Mitch Johnson in there too. So Mitch Johnson. So, and I was thinking about in football when we watched this happen at some point with like these younger guys, like the McVeigh type guys, and they came in and they were young, they were hungry, they were workaholics, and it just became harder for these old school coaches

to beat like these young type guys. And this was a thing that happened in the NFL for a while. And I wonder in basketball if this is starting to happen. These guys are raised on analytics. They're raised on, they have more pieces to work with. They're like chefs in the kitchen that have like 10 different ingredients instead of four. they can kind of shape their team to a style. They can be like, you know what?

Like Phoenix, we're just going to try harder than everyone else. That's going to be our style. We have one great player. We're going to be really intense. We're going to pressure everybody. And we're going to come at waves. And this is just how we're going to play. And then we're actually going to do it.

There's just more of that than ever. And I think day to day, I think it's just harder to get through the schedule. Like, I'm impressed down when teams win seven in a row. I think that's like, shit. Like Toronto just went four and two on the West Coast trip. I'm like, that's pretty good. Charlotte, I think what did they go?

Four and two, four and three? It's like, that's impressive. Like, you shouldn't be able to do that. But do you see, I know you care about this probably as much as anyone, do you see something shifting with the coaching here? I think this is the best collection of young coaches, as far as an infusion of young coaching talent that this league has ever seen. Okay.

And I didn't know a lot of these guys very well. I got to spend time with them in September when I did some of those coaches' corner things I was doing. And so, you know, what you see is like three minutes of film breakdown, but we had longer conversations than that, that, you know, wasn't aired unless the longer version was on NBA TV or something, he might have seen it there. But that was, for some of these guys, you know, like last year, I interviewed Adam on a couple of times because I had playoff games. And he took over, obviously, right before the playoffs. So you get an opportunity to kind of meet him, but that's different in a pregame interview than really spending time

and kind of like just, you know, shooting the shit with them. And I was so impressed walking out of the room with all of these different guys you just mentioned for a lot of different reasons. One is they clearly have like minds for the game that they're processing stuff and constantly trying to find ways to like make offense better, make defense better. Like their minds are so analytical in the way they think. But they have found a way to command the room at a time when I think new coaches come in. There's just natural skepticism on the part of the players. Right. That's always there, particularly when, you know, in some cases, guys hired from within.

Like, these guys stayed within the organization. It's a little bit easier. The players have been working with those guys already so that transition is a little bit easier, but it's still a totally different power structure when now they're the head coach. It's a different relationship. But the guys that have come in and they come from other places and you know that these players are not that familiar with them to be able to come in when you're young, particularly when because they made it higher and obviously why because the team has not done well the last few years

there's a natural pessimism and a cynicism that exists already in the room so you've got to come in not only convince them you know what the hell you're talking about which players are constantly seeking out fraudulent things that come out of your mouth when there's a coaching change to not buy in when not only do you have to do that convince them like okay this guy's pretty smart it's pretty good idea. You then have to be able to have the presence to command the situation. And handling both is not very easy for guys to have this many young coaches doing it at the same time. And really high level. Look, and some of them haven't had as many wins as other guys. You know, for different reasons. You hope they get a long enough run to turn it around where

they are. But that's a long list you just gave. I mean, it's basically you almost named almost the third of the league. I'm not only named 25, will you throw in the San Antonio coach? That's eight of the 30. Yeah. And there are all these younger guys. Like, I look at a team like Brooklyn. That team's overachieving.

Like, I watched the entire Celtics Nets game Friday night. And we just couldn't put that team away. I love Jordy. I love Jordy. I tell, but I will say this. The defense at the end of overtime. Oh, that's bad. That was bad.

To allow that three point shot. Look, that's way beyond a miscommunication. I mean, I have no idea. I watched it four times in a row. I just kept replaying it because I'm thinking with like two seconds to go and you're up three, how in the world could Gonzalez get that open in the corner off an in-bounce passers? Nobody within 20 feet of them. And I'm just watching.

What was Michael Porter Jr. doing? He's running with them and then just stops, changes direction and starts running to the opposite side of the court with Sam House. But there's no screen that took place. It was so bizarre that I'm not going to beat up Jordy for that. but that's a brutal way to lose a game when you basically stole one. It didn't look like you had a chance with three minutes ago in regulation.

And now it looks like you can't possibly lose at the end of overtime and somehow you find a way to let them tie it. So it's a bad loss, but I agree with you. I do think that a team is overachieving. Look at their roster. I mean, there's no question about it.

But then guys like Mitch Johnson and Ott and Darko, who I've always been really thought was really sharp. He's finally getting some wins now that people are starting to buy into that a little bit. Adelman is unbelievably bright. and he's just really cool. He's kind of funny

when you get to hang around up his personality shows. I don't go in 9 and 5 without Yokic and then Murray leaves halfway through that and they're still like succeeding and he's getting stuff out of the end guys. All the other guys that have been out already when you know Christian Brown's been out.

Aaron Gordon's been out. So you look at the totality of what they are and knowing their best punch by far is going to come over the last six weeks of the regular season. So we know, and we're going to get into that. Like, what does that mean overall for how we view, like, what this could look like at the end of the year? Because I think it looks a lot different than any of us thought two months into the season for a variety of reasons.

And we'll get into those top games as well. I was sticking with basketball analysis. There was a specific moment. And I was in the middle of it because I was writing for his pan and we had Grant Land where you could feel the discourse about basketball like changing in real time. Right. And it was the old school way of like, oh, he's really good in the clutch. and you would just kind of say that. And then all of a sudden, we started to get numbers.

Right. And we started looking at five-man lineups. And I remember I've talked about this before, but when I was on countdown on that first year, and Rudy Gay got traded. And we had this whole argument about, well, what are they going to do without Rudy Gay? That's their guy at the end of games.

And we had enough date at that point, but it's like, he's actually not that good at the end of games. They might be fine. And then they went on a run. And it felt like this before and after moment for analytics. And I'm starting to wonder with coaches, it's not like coaches weren't using all this stuff for the last 10 to 12 years because they were.

I think what's changed is these first time coaches, younger guys are coming in, they know how to explain it to their teams and craft different lineups that the players are buying into, right? It's not like, hey, I have this wacky idea and you have your fingers crossed,

they're going to do it. Like the teams are buying in. I see a team like Phoenix. The team should not be 10 games over 500. I'm sorry. But when you watch them, it makes sense. Because the eye test is telling you, like, yeah, these guys are just, they play really well together. They're all in the right spots.

They knew who the best guy in the team is. They game the threes correctly. They have enough rim protection size. They can guard the other team's best player. Like, this makes sense as I watch it. But if you look at their roster on basketball reference, you're like, this doesn't make sense. I don't get it. And that's what you're shifting.

You make a great point for this. And this is why I think about now the difference in mentality. If you've got a guy that's been around a while, okay, he knew the other way. There was another standard way of kind of analyzing like lineups, and it was mostly the eyeball test and like your gut feeling,

and the numbers weren't a big part of what they were doing on a daily basis to process, like what their team was about. These guys are so young, that's all they've known. So from the time they really first started getting to a place where they're starting to, you know, ascend a little bit on an NBA bench, that's all they've known.

this has been around long enough that it is completely influenced the way that these particular group of guys analyze their teams. So you didn't have to sell any of these guys on it. They already utilized it prior to becoming head coaches. And in a lot of ways, that's all they know. So I think that they are more willing to look at that stuff. I think sometimes it can be overused. But there's no question.

It has a major bearing. And JJ Reddick will be another guy. You can throw into the mix. Also, by the way, really young coach. recently retired coach. You talk about a guy that's like diving into the analytics. I mean, it's like such a big part of what he was doing when he was in media and what he's as a player. So he just rolled that right into now the way that he kind of views his team as well. There's so many coaches in the league now that that's just par for the course. That's the way they've

always done it because they're so young and it's influenced the way they coach. And I think there is some really good stuff that comes out of that as a result, different combinations that you didn't know were that good because in the past, there wasn't enough day. to back that up. But now even a smaller sample size, you kind of go, wow, that's interesting. Maybe I'll give that group a little bit more run.

If there's something to that, you're going to find out. Yeah, the Celtics had that. Walsh, eye test-wise, looked like he was playing really well. But there were lineups that were just better

when he wasn't in them, right? And they started gravitating toward this Hauser lineup. Yeah. And if you look at, like, their best five-man lineups, Hauser's usually in the best one.

I don't know there might be the spacing he does offensively. He's kind of an underrated defender too, but for whatever reason, he's the one that fits. And you mentioned JJ, because I think JJ has probably has the most frustrated team to coach out of all these teams because you have these offense only stars. You don't know when they're going to guard anybody. They don't really fit together. But he figured out, I just got to play Rui as much as possible and I got to start moving away from Aiton, right? And that's what's happened with them in the last week. They're moving.

Aiton's kind of, you can see it happening in real time. He's getting shoved out. They're going with with Luca, with LeBron, and that's, and Mark is smart, and they'll try to figure out who that fifth spot is. And that's, and I'm sure there's a bunch of advanced stuff they're looking at, like, this is actually when we had these four together. This is probably our best chance. And Rui's been the secret sauce for them. One thing I had before we get to the power pole, and we say this every year, but I feel like it matters more than ever. I'm thinking about a lot this year, the difference between being a good regular season team and being the good playoff team. Because when we go into this power pole, there's some teams I don't know where to put

because obviously in April and May, I'm going to trust them more than some of the teams that are in the power pole. And there's some regular season teams, like a team like Toronto, if you have depth during the regular season, that's great. In a playoff series, I'd probably feel pretty good about going against them. But game to game, week to week, road trips, you want like a deeper team. Maybe the Celtics could be like that because their bench has been good. I don't know. But do you, feel like this is a more pronounced chasm than ever between what do I trust when I'm watching here in the regular season versus in the playoffs, am I just going to feel differently about this team?

Completely because I think some of the teams that have been great stories and they've surprised us and it's been great, it's been refreshing because it gives you more teams to talk about, which is great for us. Yeah. You know, give me more to dive into Toronto, Phoenix, like teams like that, like being where they're out, that's great and they kind of surprised us. But individually, when you start looking at some of these teams, and it's going to be interesting because I think we're going to talk about the power pole,

like some of these teams, like obviously we know who's, there's several of these teams at the very, very top. Like kind of know that, okay, these teams legitimately can make a deep run go all the way. Who knows? Yeah. Then there's going to be that next group where you're going to, you're trying to analyze, like, picturing them having to win multiple playoff series or even doing one playoff series.

And you start thinking about matchups. And now all of a sudden some of these teams you realize, like, I don't know if they're going to be on a, win four times against some of those teams because there's no track record there. So there's an uncertainty about how some of these teams are going to handle that situation. I mean, even a team like Detroit, as great as they've been, truth is they haven't won a playoff series. And to win a playoff series is a lot different than battling the Knicks, you know, giving them all they could handle last year. That's a lot different than finishing off those games, winning four.

four times against a really good team. It's different. Now, look, they're not going to have to play a top-tiered team in the first round. So you would think home court advantage, Detroit should be okay. And now they'll say, whoa, there you go. Now they've got a playoff series went under the belt. That should make things a lot different. I'm talking about beating teams that can come close to looking you in the eye, right?

That's different. Winning four times against them, when you've got no experience in doing that collectively and you've got a bunch of young guys, you don't know how certain guys are going to react when they get into that situation. And guys that are giving you that little burst and punch now and give a nice to help you, well, it's a fine line between those same players having a 30% shooting series. And now it's like really tough, man, those minutes that were so great in the regular season, and it's harder now with particular groups because certain guys are really struggling in the playoffs for a variety of reasons.

So that's why I think there is a lot of uncertainty with that second tier of teams that are trying, to crack through and make us believe like they could be a conference finalist or a finalist. Like that next group beyond the top two or three, that's when it gets a lot more interesting in this conversation. Well, there's even a couple teams in that one B group where I watch, like the Celtics had a really interesting game against the Pistons last week. And one of the things that was happening was they were just like, we're just not going to guard Thompson.

Yeah. Good luck. Ironically, that's also happening in some of the Houston games where teams are going. Yeah, we're just like, no. good luck. We're going to let him go. And in a playoff series, when you're playing the same team seven games, that's the stuff that starts pulsating. Like Detroit and the Celtic game found something against Garza. They just started attacking him. Not so coincidentally, like, all of a sudden, Mario Williams is in the Celtics rotation. Garza didn't play last night. Like,

maybe he was hurt. I don't know. But it was one of those moments where it was like, shit. I don't know if we can play Garza in the playoffs here because Detroit's just like feasting on him in these five minutes. And that's kind of. of stuff you tuck away for later. The other thing is like when I think about teams like the Knicks, Minnesota, whoever, like if you have a top eight player, I'm just, you're on my, I'm taking you seriously list no matter how you're looking over this stretch. I do want to see you put together like one nice 15 to 20 games stretch though during the season, which I think we'll talk about the clippers in a second, but like the clipper is going 15 and 3 and 18 games is

meaningful. Like this is, this is, they reclaimed their corners. Still amazing. at the number of conversations that I'm that I'm having here over the last couple of weeks, whether in the industry or outside the industry, just like basketball fans that are friends of ours, right? They're just not remotely convinced that you better take notice. Because they're not just like winning. You know, when you go, whatever day were, six and 21 at the start, I guess maybe people just completely think,

I don't have to watch the clippers anymore the rest of the year. We do. It's our job. So you're still paying attention. they start winning some games. You're like, okay, that's interesting. 15 and 3, 18 games in basically a 5 to 6 week period of time when their defensive numbers have shifted to this extent

is something you have to pay attention to. They have held teams in that 18 game stretch 11 times to 105 points or less. 105 in today's NBA, right, is like 90 when I played. Like that's what it feels like. If you hold a team under 110 points, it's like, you know, wow, they really got after it tonight. They just did it 11 times in the last 18 games. And it reminds me of what they were doing last year defensively when I called a few of their games. And I was so impressed with their ability to pressure the ball all over the floor and their length and their quickness to recover for each other.

Of course, and Kauai was healthy most of that time. They're back to playing that level defense and they're getting incredible offensive years out of their two best players. So how can you not notice? And it's like it's also like it's like a string of wins that they're getting. Like these are some good teams that they've knocked off. So I'm listening, I've got one eye on them at all times now.

This ascension and you think about what I'm talking about. They've only gotten to 10th. I mean, that's how far they were buried. You went 15 out of 18 and you're still 10th. That's where they were. They're 13 to 1 to win the division. Yeah, their last 18, they're plus 8.9 per 100. They're fourth in the league.

But you mentioned Kauai. He's averaging, the last 18, he missed two, he played 16. He's averaging 32 in the games that he played. And he's 51, 43, 92 and looks like Kauai. I mean, I test-wise, this is 2017 Kauai, it looks like. So anyway, we'll take a break. And then we're going to go through the power pole because we got a lot of stuff to cover. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by Fandul.

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betrots expire seven days after receipt restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fander.com. Game problem called 180, gambor, visit rG dash help.com. Call 18887-89-777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. All right, so I separated in groups. We'll just rip through this group. I want to talk about one team, and if there's a team in this group, you're excited about. Flag it after. Number 30 is Washington. They have the worst net rate. They're minus 11.

One and nine in their last 10. I think they've settled into, we want to stink. We want to get top four pick. Number 29, I have Milwaukee. This is no Janus Milwaukee. He's not playing for another six weeks. I actually think their two through 12 is the worst two through 12 in the week. I want to get your take on that.

I don't think any other team in the league would trade their two through 12 from Milwaukee's two through 12. I mean, I think for that particular question, if I really wanted to just give you like definitive answer, I would probably need to right now pull up two through 12 on four or five different things. But my point is this, you're not crazy for throwing that into the conversation. Yeah. I mean, look at the roster.

It's brutal. It's brutal. It's, and you look at what's happening to them now. When you combine the roster with now the level, like what they're dealing with psychologically not having him. And the one differentiating factor for your team every night is having that force and not having that, combined with that roster,

I think you probably have put them appropriately where they belong as long as he's out. So they, the biggest wrinkle with them is they get the worst of the first pick between them in New Orleans. So in a weird way, if the season goes south and they end up being one of the eight worst teams, It's not the worst thing in the world. But what's killed them is, I don't think they could trade Janus.

Zach did a thing on his podcast yesterday with Mo about, is this actually still okay that they can trade Janus? Or did this make this impossible and not really landing either way? I'm more in the, I don't know who's trading for him with all the stuff you'd have to give up, not knowing if he's going to even be back in April. Plus, he's had this injury multiple times. To me, it's a complete stay away. I'll revisit in the summer.

Show me you're healthy. I can't see anyone doing that. do you agree with that? First of all, that would be the approach I would take. I'm not saying I wouldn't want to try to acquire Yanis Ratsin Tocoubo, but with the number of times now that he's been dealing with this injury and me needing to see like this motivated Janus in the summer, healthy Janus in the summer, yes, I think there are teams that you do what you have to

to make a run in him. I kind of agree with the uncertainty right now of when you're going to see him again at full strength and the possibility because, you know, it's going to be tight then with. the playoffs, is he going to be coming back and forcing himself onto the court because he wants to make a run with some team? And is that mean he ends up re-injuring himself into playoffs anyway, and you've given up a ton. Now, if you've got more of a longer term view and it's not just about trying to get it done this year, I don't know, maybe you do it anyway because he's just so

intriguing because of how dominant he is. And I think how highly motivated he would be with a change of scenery and what that could do to reinvigorate him, I would still think about it. I'm in a thought bubble this for you. Would you trade for anybody about to hit their mid-30s, who is a big guy with a lot of miles on them with all the evidence that we've seen at this point? Would you give up the farm? What are the success stories here?

Like, even KG when the Celtics got him in 08, and he's probably 31, he broke down a year later. Chris Weber, Dwight Howard, broke down a bunch of times. Go on. Shaq started, he started to have the injuries in the mid-2000s. I would just get really nervous about trading for big guys with miles.

And there's been a couple outliers. And then when you go smaller and you get to like the LeBron size, there's probably more success. But the taller guys, I don't know. I'd be really nervous to do it. To me, the Janus,

if they were like, hey, no, he's going to be back in late March. You should trade for him. It's like somebody offering you the nicest car ever. And it's like, it was just in the shop for the seventh time.

But it's going to be great. The mechanics that he fixed this one thing we have. should get it. It'll be awesome. I'm staying in that garage. I'm looking at that car for a long time. Man, this is a nice car. How fast does it go? The only thing they're not going to let you do is test drive it, though. That's the problem.

You just got to go. You got to buy as is. It's an as-is contract. They're showing your clips of the 2021 race that it won was going 220 miles an hour. And you're meanwhile, you're on the side like Googling Carfax, trying to get that report. You know, the commercial with the cute fox that we see all the time. Like I'm going to that website. What's the, you know?

And yeah, so that's a good point. But I'm telling you, I mean, I'd be, I'd be looking at that car for a while, trying to make up my body. Put up to sleep on that decision. Yeah, if you're Atlanta, you've never been in a race. That's the thing. You're like, all right, maybe this is our one chance to get him. Okay.

Number 28, Brooklyn. Number 27, Sacramento. They both basically have 12 wins. Number 26, Indiana, who I think is a noble, 11 and 36. team? Man. I actually think they play hard and give a shit and they just don't have enough talent, sadly. Has any player, like, I don't know, earn more respect on an 11-win team than Pascal Seacquam? Right. Every night, and I watch the Pacers a lot just because, I don't know, the guys on that team I'm kind of interested in, so I watch the Pacers a good amount. I like them

too. And I love watching Seacom play. Yeah. And I'm watching this guy. And if you had no idea when when you turn it on to watch the game, you had no idea what the record was, what's going on? Like, you're just like watching this guy that looks exactly like he did when he was playing for Toronto and they won a championship,

exactly like he did last year. The last two years with Indiana, last year going to the finals, like you don't know there's any difference in his demeanor, approach, effort, intensity, like all leadership, like all of that stuff. And it's led to 11 wins.

Like, that's how decimated they've been. But I've got a lot of respect for the way he's carried himself this season. McConnell's another one, Nemhard. There's guys on that team that are still carrying themselves like they did last spring. And at some point, they're going to have to take Pascal for a nice stake

and explain to him that his calf needs some maintenance and he might need to take four to five weeks off. That the trainer was mildly concerned. And it's just for the safety of everybody, we're just going to have to sit you for a little bit and get you ready for next year. We're almost there with the Pacers because this will be a miracle.

You throw away one year, you get Halliburton back next year and you could potentially get a top five pick. Here's the one thing I'll say about them. Yeah. You think about how quickly they immediately reemerge on the scene of relevant teams as soon as they get Halliburton back. Okay. They desperately need a five. And there's a list of them.

There's eight or nine of them that are out there. Some are more interesting than others. Some I don't think you can get, but there's a list out there and you can pull it up just about anywhere. of the number of centers that are like kind of at least cut their names come up some i think it's absolutely pipe for him you'll never going to get them some i wouldn't want and then there's a few and you kind of go man you know if you can add that with giving up what they would have to give up to get it and now next year you go in with see yakum and haliburton and a five that fits your style man it's a that's something i think that they're going to look hard at and i'll be very surprised

actually if they don't make a move before the trading deadline to try to acquire one of those centers. So you think they would put their number one pick on the table? I don't know if they'd put their number one pick. I think there's internal conversations that are probably taking place because that's beauty, that's, you know,

beauty and eye of the beholder. If you think that, for instance, you know, those top three picks, which a lot of people are talking about are absolute can't misses, the Bonsa,

Peterson, Boozer. If you think all three of those guys or, man, these are franchise guys and we're going to be in that mix, you probably don't do that. If you think, Hey, man, there's a chance we don't want to get into top three

and we don't know that we love it after that, even though I think it's a good draft class. And I think there's going to be even diamonds in the rough found, probably 15 through 25 that always is. Does that young player, like, does that serve them well? If that's going to take a few years for him to hit a stride when they were so close a year ago, as opposed to, I'm not talking about picking up a 34-year-old center.

If you can get a guy that- Like, Jared Jackson, like, we'll discuss Sharon Jackson, but we want your own protective first. Even a guy like a lower level, maybe a lower caliber player than that, like a Nick Claxton, like somebody like that, like that's young, that runs, that that you don't have to run plays for that can defend, that will fit your style and pace because he's got stamina. Like a guy like that, if you're talking about giving up, not the number one pick, if you're talking about giving up something else on your roster that they would be,

it would be intriguing to them either because it could be a salary dump or it's a multiple players. protected. Like we'll trade whatever, but we need top five protection or you get our next year's thing. Yeah, we'll see. Because what I like about them and the Celtics losing their best guys, but somehow keeping some sort of infrastructure what they had last year, the Celtics did it more successfully. But when you watch Indiana, like, they don't stink. Like they might be overmatched some nights, but they do play like they did last year. So I have them 26. New Orleans, I have 25. they're 12 and 36. All these teams have 12 or 11 wins that we just rattled off.

I want to flag New Orleans really quickly, though, because I think they're a sneaky important trade machine team. Not just because Zion, I think every team in the week probably has had a Zion meeting at this point. Let's just do a one hour. Bob is going to do a Zion presentation for us. We're going to go through the pros and cons. Like, they're all doing it. Murphy, they've tried to make it seem like they wouldn't trade them.

I refuse to believe that. I think they're playing it smartly. But if somebody's going to give them the Bain Bridges offer, it would be irresponsible not to do it. But then they have Missy at 3.3. They have Sadiq Bay at 6-1 and 6-4 the next two years. They have Alvarado at 4-5. They have Luni at 8 expiring.

They have some fun little levers to push for contenders. I like somebody, I look like Alvarado. There's five teams that he would just be fun on in the playoffs, right? But you put him on the pistons and he would just be like, I am rolling up my sleeves. Who are we fighting? You know?

So I don't know what they're going to do, but I feel like we'll be hearing from them. And Misi's also one of those guys on that short list of centers that would be be intriguing for Indiana. Right. And especially with Derek Queen there, you know, you obviously,

Misi becomes completely expendable in that situation. Here's the thing. Like, I agree with you what you said about Trey Murphy. I mean, look, But I don't know. They want to make it seem like there's nothing that you can offer me that would get him.

I don't know if I believe that. I know this. Like when it comes to Zion, like they seem like the stuff they put out there is like, no, no, we're committed to Zion. I don't know that I would be willing to give up anything to get him. I just, I'd be far too concerned to give up a lot of stuff with value for Zion Williamson with his track record. And the part of his game that drives me nuts, because he's such a unique force and talent,

entertaining as well. How's the guy get six rebounds a game? I mean, explain it. This is one of my corners. I mean, partly started this. You can't get two rebounds a quarter? How do you consist of six rebounds a game

when you're built like that with that kind of athleticism? Yeah. There's one reason and one reason only. You don't go often enough. It's that simple. It's that simple. And particularly,

for Zion Williamson, particularly look at his career, he had 2.7 offensive rebounds his first two seasons in the league. obviously not a ton of games, but he's never been since then, like over 2.5. To me, that's a guy that should be three and a half to four offensive rebounds a game. And if you watch him play, the reason it doesn't happen, Zion's that guy that if there's

a shot by somebody else and he happens to be anywhere from the third hash up the lane to the foul line, you're 12 to 15 feet from the rim. Very rarely does Zion Williamson go. He starts immediately backpedaling. And it's so that it just tells you it's a mentality. because the mentality is if I go and don't get it, damn, that's a long run to the other end of the floor. And that's the impression I get,

as talented as he is and as just like unique in what he can do and how difficult he is to deal with when he's healthy and playing right, that has always bothered me. I've never understood. I think he is one of the most underachieving rebounders in the NBA. And it doesn't make sense to me because there's no way that guy should not be getting a ton of double-digit rebounds games. You made double-digit rebounds games?

Think about this. Double-digit rebounds game. Now, last two, he's had 10 and 11 against San Antonio and Memphis. You have to go back to October 24th to find his last 10 rebound game. That's incredible to me. when you look at a guy like Josh Hart, right? It's like that doesn't make any sense. And so it's just like that combined with the injury history,

I'm just like, I don't know if I'd want any part of it. You also made the case why you would want a part of it if you felt like you had a good team with a good coach and a good infrastructure and you could kind of shove him in the correct directions. That's how you talk yourself into this. I got news for you. You could put him on any team in history with whatever direction you want. and if that guy doesn't want to run to the rim from 12 feet when someone takes a corner three,

he ain't never going to. Like that's not that's not about infrastructure and leadership in the locker room and like accountability. That guy either wants to or he doesn't and he has now played 240, which I don't believe, well, I'm going to 246 games in six years. It's kind of incredible. He's got 246 games under his belt. And I don't recall really.

So you know what that. He is who he is. Interesting. Well, if you cut them on mixtape of VJ Edgecombe and Hugo Gonzalez being in the corner, seeing somebody about to shoot and veering toward the rim at full speed to just see if they can get a hand on anything, maybe the light bulb would quick for him. Hey, you could also do this. Watch how these guys just move because somebody else was shooting.

They might be able to dunk it or get a rebound. Listen, I would. The ship has sailed for that day because of how much I've enjoyed it. watching Zion Williamson play when he's healthy. It's just a long track record of that one particular thing. You can be a real difference maker on the glass. It's a major, majorly important quality to bring, finishing off defensive possessions to giving your team extra possessions on a given

night, they're so critical to do those things on nights when maybe you don't shoot well. For him, I'm also thinking you get another two, three offense or rebound some nights. That's a guaranteed probably with his quickness off his feet. That's another four to six points. And plus some of those might be and ones. Like just from your own production, you could take your scoring average up five points if you just wanted to go more.

And so that's my big concern with Zion. His name's always going to come up because he's so intriguing. And I just think we're six years in. And I think when you're on a team that's got the worst record in the NBA, and you've been out a lot again this year. and the rebounding numbers are with the R. I think we add all that up. I don't know.

I don't know. See, that's the case you just made is my case for why I'm not crazy about Jaron Jackson. He's 5.7 rebounds in game. Let's, you're 100%. You can't get to a quarter? I've said that on the air when I've called Memphis games.

I haven't, now I haven't called a New Orleans game this year for obvious reasons. But we did call a Memphis game and it's the same thing. I think the same way. Like, why are his rebounding numbers not better? Now, the one thing, though, I will say this. He does do this, and this could cost him maybe some defensive rebounds. Challenging.

Exactly right. When your last line of defense and you're trying to get most things at the rim, you are bypassing opportunities to rebound by doing that. Yeah, that's fair. But here's the thing. A guy like Jaron Jackson and Zion, and I'm not sure if I watched the New Orleans game tomorrow night, does Zion on the inside slot every opponent's free throw, is Jaron Jackson? How does that not free a game?

Westbrook figured that out 12 years ago. Right there, you're halfway to their current total. Right. You know what I mean? It's like, how does that not translate to us? So I agree. Jared Jackson has always scratched my head. But the all-around game, you know,

the all-around amount of energy he's expending defensively. I think I'll give him a little bit more of a past than Zion. You know what? I would say Tim Legler, some guys are just good rebounding. Even when you play like pickup or when you played at a high school or in your case, college and the pros. Some guys just have a knack for it. Josh Hart, he's six foot three. He just goes and gets rebounds. He knows where they're going to go.

Derek White's really good at it. Weirdly is a guard. Just can study the patterns. He's good instincts for it. Some guys just suck at it. Finishing the dregs, Utah 24 and Memphis, 23 at 18 and 26. I just don't think it's going to happen for them. And we can move to the next group. This group is a one-team group. It's called Panic Time. And I put Orlando in here at 22, even though they have a winning record, their net rating is minus 0.6. Their last 25 games, legs, they're 11 and 14.

They're 25th the net rating. And I test-wise, I have a real problem with this team. And we talked about, I don't want to throw Jamal Mosley under the bus, but we talked about some of the great coaches we've added. This is a team that, to me, does not look well-coached. I don't know what they're doing. I don't understand it. I think the effort comes and goes.

They just seem like the ball finds the wrong person at the wrong times and the wrong spots of the game. And I think they're incredibly frustrating to watch. Here's what, here's what would, here's why I can, I don't know if I can go with the coaching thing for this reason. Okay. Last year, and again, I haven't, I called an Orlando game this year. The same person is definitely different for me as an analyst.

I pick up on a lot of stuff that I can't see when I'm watching on TV at home. but look they just lost four straight games by a total of 75 points I believe you know

Wagner's out again they barely him and Vaccaro barely have had any chance to establish rhythm but here's why the coaching thing

would be bothersome to me if like that were true because last year I had as much respect for the way that that team competed and defended

is anybody in the league I mean when I watched the magic play and I watched them and I called games where they only had one of their stars and they're going up against

like teams that were like top five teams in the NBA and they're in position to win these games and in some cases did. And one particular stands out when they broke, Cleveland had that long winning streak midseason like 15 games and they beat them in Cleveland on a Sunday ABC game. That's a good game. I remember that one.

Oh, it was an incredible game and they didn't, they, their want to was so impressive. And so when I see that in a team, I'm going to go ahead in most times and I'm going to give the coach credit in that situation. Right? Now, some of it may be just internally, certain guys just play hard.

They just show up, play out. Great. You got the right guys in your building. But, you know, we can't just dismiss that if a team's playing hard. If we're going to beat up a coach when the team doesn't look like they're playing hard, if they are playing hard, I'm always going to give credit to the coach. He's establishing some sort of culture in there. His message is resonating with these guys.

To a certain extent, they're buying in for them to play that hard a year ago. But can that fade away, though? I mean, it can, but it would be surprising to do that from one year to the next when they've had as, you know, their top guys have missed as much time as they have. It's almost like a built-in reason why it's a struggle some nights. But look, when you lose four games the way they just did, and look, to Memphis, Charlotte right now, who could put up numbers on you. And Cleveland could put up numbers.

Those aren't like hard- Cleveland's coming around. But it's tough stretch, man. Three of those four were at home. and you're not really in the game in the last six minutes. It's alarming. That's why I brought it up and put them 22. You're right.

The only thing I could say for- I think time is a good place to put them. I think that's a good way to sum it up. Like they put it this way. It's go time. Like if you're going to hit another gear, it's going to have to start now. But what's funny is I thought that was going to be like a week and a half ago.

I was looking at their schedule. They were like, I don't know, 23 and 18 or something. And it was like, okay, if we're going to hear from this team, it's going to start right around now. And it went the other way. Their best five is still plus 18 per 100, I guess is the one good thing about them. But they're almost like a takeoff the league pass team for me. Like, I don't want them on a TV anymore. I don't like watching them and make me mad.

All right. Next category, four teams, the play in dreamers, starting with Dallas, 19 and 27. I feel like they're better than 19 and 27, especially with the injury. they've had. But on the right night, if you catch them, I feel like they can hang with just about anybody. I wanted to mention Max Christie. Yeah. I think has officially reached, you're insulting him if you don't mention him when you recap the Luca trade and you just say, Luke for AD. I think Christie's become a legitimate asset. He's 22. He's put together two months now where he's like 16 a game and like 45% from three. He can handle the ball. I thought he was coming on a little

for the Lakers last year, but ironically, has become a bigger asset for them than Anthony Davis. So just wanted to mention that. That's the perfect context and perspective to put him in because you're 100% right. He was not even mentioned when that trade went down. It was like a set of steak knives. No, no doubt.

And I knew how much how much JJ valued him because we had had conversations about him. Like that was tough for him to part with him. But, you know, there was just so much. focus on, you know, arguably is just the worst trade in the history of team sports. Yeah. You know, he's going to get lost in all of that conversation, particularly AD went down right away.

And look, it takes a, at the time, like a role player, a little bit longer even to get comfortable when a trade like that happens because your touches are infrequent, like your shots, you're a little bit kind of feeling things out. And now you look at the way this guy's playing now. And every night now, you're expecting him, you know, his floor now is like, you know, a double-digit scoring night. And then, like, his average game is, like, 16. And then, like, his ceiling is now in the 20s.

And he fits with Flag, which is the only thing that really, really matters here. He actually makes sense on a basketball court with Cooper Flag, which is all you're trying to find out. And you're right, by the way, they're better than the record, I think, a lot of it being this. Like, if Christie's playing this well from the very beginning, if Cooper Flag didn't have to take, you know, some time, you know, at 18 years old to try to figure out the league a little bit, they would be closer to 500 than they are right now. It's been a great story.

And they play hard as hell every night. Yeah, they're annoying to play. You can just see it. You could see the other teams. The thing with Flagg, like he's not shooting the three well at all. I think he's 28%. But everything else, like when you consider how young he is and he's at the same age Kobe was when Kobe came in and maybe he's like six months old than Kobe, KG when KG came in, LeBron when LeBron came in. You just know this is the floor. And it's a really good. good floor, right? He's so good with the worst he's ever going to be right now. Yeah, that's a great point.

And that's why I look, you know, I, I used the expression, can't miss with him coming out. And I kind of felt to say before he got to Duke. I'm like, no, no, no, this guy, like, because he's got a nasty competitive edge to him, even though he's got like a little boy smile on his face, like he has a meanness to him and a toughness for being challenged for the last like five years on the high profile. like youth circuit into Duke. Like he was challenged and every night he took to court, people were coming for him.

And he just wanted, you know, he wanted all of it. So you kind of knew, but man, is he better with the mid-range pull-ups and push shots? Yeah. In that 10-foot area, these really difficult shots. And they go to him to decide games. It's kind of incredible, really, what he's been able to do in the fourth quarter of close games.

So, man, how much better will this guy be? even in two months. It's incredible. Quick question. So they're 19 and 27. If they had Kyrie this whole year from game one, what's their record? How many wins is he worth, you think? They're definitely over 500. I think they're, honestly, I think they're like 30 and 16. Yeah. I think he would have swung like 12

games. Yeah, I mean, look, so you're talking about 11 more wins than they have right now? Yeah. I mean, look, Kyrie's that great. But again, you know, you're saying that you never got hurt. would have brings in. Yeah, I'm just saying healthy Kyrie from game one with this exact roster. I just think he's exactly what they need. That's why I'm kind of hoping he comes back because

if you put him in with everything I'm watching, I'm like, I'm kind of interested in this team. I'd probably take it as far as flipping the numbers. 19 and 27. 27 and 19. That's probably where I would go. So Dallas 21. I have Atlanta at 20. I don't want to talk about them. I can't quit them. Every time

I'm out, they have some sort of fun game. Forget it. 19 Portland This is interesting So they're 23 and 24 Their last 15 They're 10 and 5 Where they beat Houston twice

San Antonio The Lakers in Atlanta They had this crazy bill up situation To start the year Plus Scoot Henderson got hurt Holiday got hurt Like three weeks in I have no idea how they're 500

And I don't really know What I would do if I was their GM Because you could argue They should be a seller You could also argue they say, like, I got an email from a reader, a listener named Dylan, who said, Jod to Portland, why not? Why not scoot and expirings, which they have the expiring, scoot, Thibone, Rob Williams for

jaw. Like, why not? And I was reading the email going, yeah, why not? Why not roll the dice? See what you have. Maybe you're a buyer. You could also go the other way and start selling off some players and trying to take. What would you do?

I mean, that sounds a little bit low for Jahn, but at the same time, his market value has taken. Nobody wants them. Plunge. It's, and that's just like, you know, everything you're hearing is like, it's really, it's really, you know, becoming absolutely buyer's market. Because here's the thing, even if you think, you know, man, you know, we might not have to give up that much to get him.

And you kind of come to terms of that, like, we're not giving up anything we really want to get John Morant. You then have to think about incorporating him into what you have going on with the players you do like. Right. And what does that look like? that's a whole other conversation. Where with some of these guys, maybe it's injuries, right?

But it's not like that. Like, how's he going to fit with these guys? How hard is he to coach? Like all of that stuff? Some guys are just like injuries. Do we, do we, you know, roll the dice on? Is he going to like that? It's obvious team and not his and things like that.

Exactly. And look, if you're Portland now, some part of me would think, like, what have you got to lose? That's kind of how I felt. On the one hand, there's a lot of red flags. And it's, as you said, a buyer's market for Jha. On the other hand, he's 26. Like, you have a chance to get a guy who three years ago would have been like number seven in my trade value column.

You're just stealing him. And he hasn't seems like relatively healthy. He keeps having these small injuries. Why not? I don't know. I think about it. There's probably two or three teams in the league that I would put in a category of, I mean, come on, what the hell have you got to lose? When you really look at who they have and what ultimately their ceiling is, you kind of look at their roster.

Portland's and the obvious has been incredible, but this, this is, I mean, I'd be, obvious, it's not going to average 32 next year. Like, you know what I mean? He's playing great. And I actually think, I actually think the guy's got a great case to be an all-star, um, with what he's done in there and, you know, how well they've played for the last month. He's definitely an all-star for me. He's got to be.

He's got to be. But it's funny. I, you know, just, I've always constantly looking at how people view it. And I've kind of put mine out there on the, um, the All-City podcast. I put my reserves out there. And I gave him a spot. But if you look around and where people are speculating, it's not like it has like a guarantee.

I think he's pretty close. Yeah. 26 and like, you know, seven and somebody watches Portland. Well, the other job team is number 18 on my list, the Chicago Bulls who are 23 and 23.

The only reason I mention them is they have expirings they could put together, you know, maybe they could put Kobe White in it. But their style of play, I actually would think would be pretty fun for him. You know, it's basically balls to the wall. They're going up and down.

the balls constantly moving. People are just attack, attack, attack. Billy Donovan. I like that one a lot too. I don't know. I don't mind that one. No, I really like that one because, again, there are limitations on their roster that are not going to change.

You know what I mean? It's not like they've got that young guy that was a top five pick in the last couple of years that isn't ready now. But you're like, man, this is what we're going to be building around, this franchise player. Now you're adding Jod to that. No, I wouldn't do that. that they don't have that.

So that that team has like a finite ceiling. And so John Morant, yeah. Now, you know, would Billy Donovan want that? I don't know. We don't know if you'd want to sign up. Does he want to go 40 and 42 for the next nine years? Or like at some point? No, I just want to take a swing somewhere.

Hey, listen, at least. And I was there the other night. I was in the building for the, you know, the Derek Rose game. I'm tired of his jersey. I'm thinking to myself, if somebody's got a rep, some of those highlights. That's the guy. John we're in.

Right. All right. One more break and then we're going to do the rest of the list. And now it's time for today's with the assist segment presented by State Farm. In basketball, the best players don't just go it alone. They lean on teammates, coaches, even fans to push them to be better. And we've seen some pretty iconic assists over the years. As a Celtics fan, probably the assist team I was the most afraid of was Magic Johnson and

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Kareem was older. Magic was becoming one of the two or three best players in the league, but they still figured out how to work together. 1985 finals, famously, Kareem just took over the finals, killed the Celtics, wins the finals, MVP 14 years after the first time he won.

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if that's okay. I'm totally fine with that. Okay, great. I've talked about it. Yeah, I'm good with that. Number 15, I have not had enough to say. This group is called the Wildcard. The Charlotte Hornets, now 19 and 28. In their last 25, they're 13 and 12. They're best four guys with Diabate,

plus 26.5 per 100. It's been exciting to watch. Zach Lowe and I have been fighting about then since December. I had them on my podcast. We did league pass rankings. I had them sixth. He mocked me. He made fun of me. He said, what are you thinking? And I'm like, I'm, I'm buying whatever's going on there. I like that team. Lamello came back and started to look like Lamello and then this Diabate piece. And now this team has, they've had, they have some real wins. They went to the West Coast and they had one of those West Coast trips where it was like,

wow, they could go 0 and 7. This could be a disaster. Fought through it. put a couple wins up. Their only stinker was the game you did last week. You probably saw their worst game of the last couple weeks, unfortunately. But give me your Charlotte thoughts. Well, that's obviously where I was going to go first. So I'm the same. My guilty pleasure, bad team.

That's the way I've described them. And they started to become a little bit more than bad team. Like, you know, but I like watching them. They're fun. So here you go. They're on our national TV schedule. This is it. Charlotte Party.

Could wait. Somebody asked me when, you know, somebody asked me walking in the building, Like, were you here last year to call a game? I said, the last time I was in this building, I think I was guarding Del Curry. I said, so I don't know. You know, haven't been here. And actually, ironically, they announced that night at the game that Del Curry is going

to have his journey retired, which is a very, very cool thing. But so here we go. I'm excited. We all work. Breene, myself, Richard, we sit down, ready to do the game. We did a feature with Conniple before the game. We broke down some of his off ball movements and stuff. I was really excited.

And then they scored 32 points in the first half. And I think LaBello was one for 15 in the game. Oh, for 10 from the three. They just stunk. Now, look, they had a horrible night. But at the same time, it's like, okay, you didn't really show me anything. And I don't think anything to do with national TV being in the building. I just don't think that's going to affect guys that much or anything like that.

I don't know. I think that was a little bit. That was like their biggest game in the year. And they stunk. Maybe a little. And they haven't looked like that for two months. That was easily the worst game they played. During the coach's interview, Charles Lee walks out of the room, and the last thing he said as he was walking out of the room,

because he was like, he basically turned to us and was like, man, you know, I hope these guys are ready for it. Like, you know, like, there's a big night. Turns out they weren't. So I've obviously been watching the last three since, and they're averaging like 125 a game in the last three games, which is what they were doing to everybody prior to that. Their wins.

They have the most, the strangest list of like strong resume wins over the last month, right? Smoked Oklahoma City in Oklahoma City, beat the Lakers, like, pretty easily. And all of a sudden, like, you're looking at this team. You're like, man, this team is like, you better be ready to guard them. Yeah.

And so, look, I'm with you. I'm with you. And they've, I'll give them credit. They had that game. And they turned right around and play three great games and put up numbers. That told me more about them than the one bad game that we called. There's an eye-test thing with them. The guys make sense together when you're watching it.

I mean, a Knappel makes sense with anybody. I just think he would fit in with any lineup. But I also like Miller. I think Bridges has been good this year. Lamello is the one I could never get there with. I talked to Kahn on the podcast a couple weeks ago and was just saying, like, this is the most fun I've had watching him.

There's an arrogance in a good way about him sometimes, especially at the end of games. I used to say this long time ago about Carmelo, where he wasn't the best player in the league or one of the best players, but when he played LeBron and Wade, he thought he was on their level. Yeah.

And sometimes you need that. Paul Pierce was like that for Boston. He was like, he thought he was as good as those guys, and that's all that matters. I think when Lamello goes against these teams, like he's like, finally my peers,

finally my peer, Shee Gilges Alexander. Meanwhile, LaMelle's like, you know, never been even in round one of the playoffs. But he thinks that. And I think there's an energy

and a confidence with them offensively. Well, yeah, the thing is, even that night, by the way, if I'm, you know, given full disclosure, that was the best individual big man defensive game I've seen all year that Mowgli played in that game. And so, look, and they still ended up getting with it within six in the fourth quarter. Yeah, I thought they were going to come back. Yeah, despite how poorly they played, give them some credit. They were in the game. It was one of the lowest-scoring games you're going to see all year.

And Mowgli was unbelievable in the game contributed to their offensive woes. but like I said, I care more about what they've done since then than just one night where they didn't play well. So would you do anything if you were them? We got to trade deadline coming up and they have a slew of picks and some good ones. Like they have Golden States picked this year, I think. They have a top two from Dallas, top two protected and 27 from Dallas. They have things to trade.

I mean, the smart world would be like, let's just have a good time, enjoy this. Maybe we'll make the play in. But then I look around the east and you think like, Maybe they could just kind of move around the edges there and grab somebody like on a cheap price, some veteran shooter, like some sort of like stretch four that can guard some people. There's things they need. They do. And there's, yeah, they do.

And even as well as they played as fun as they are, they're still like obviously because they've got 11 players, 23 and under. Right. Okay, there's a maturity thing with them sometimes. So you go, okay, well, that'll just. come with time, maybe, but maybe we can expedite that by bringing in the right piece, a guy that's got a little bit more seasoning on them that's maybe in his upper 20s, that can bring that to this group.

So I would be looking if I were them. Yeah, I would be. I'm glad we agree. Next group is the Enigma. This is one team, the Philadelphia 76ers who are 24 and 21. And on Thursday night, they beat Houston in overtime. And it was the most impressive Eastern team performance I saw all season. The Embedde was great.

I thought Houston played well. And the size and speed of Philadelphia was alarming. And on my thread with Sal and House and Hinch, where we always talk about NBA futures. I was like, do we have to start thinking about Sixers East futures? Because it was still pretty good price. And then all of them are like, come on, Embedd's going to get hurt. And that's where we landed where it's like, we can't trust this because we don't trust Embedde.

Meanwhile, Embed in his last 14 is 29 and 8. But then you watched them on the Knicks on Saturday. Did you do that game or did you do the other game? We didn't do either. We didn't do either. Okay. So Embeded in that game and you saw the weakness they have as those energy. Like the Knicks are like a pain in the ass.

They rebound. They crash the boards. And that's, I think, what could sink the Sixers in the series. I don't really understand the Embed thing right now because when you watch them, it only seems like one of his legs work. And he only occasionally has explosiveness. but he's getting all the shots that he wants, and he'll fall down once a game

and you think the season's over and then he gets up. I don't really understand it, but it's way better than I thought where we were in October when we were thinking this was like Andrew Bynum, right? So at least that's a win. What do you see from Philly? How high is your ceiling for them in the building?

You cannot dismiss their chances to make a legitimate run at the Eastern Conference. That's how I feel. I hate it, but I feel that way. And I called like the week before, that. I called back-to-back games, Philly Cleveland. It was weird. I was there for Wednesday, Friday, it was the same matchup.

Yeah. And it's funny, we're talking about his jumping, his lack of explosiveness, and I've been kind of talking about that, but to see it in person, he had an offensive rebound in that game. He got it. He was right under the rim. He got it. And like, you know, go back a few years, healthy and beat MVP and beat.

He's probably going to gather, like, swing his shoulders a little bit, go off and just dunk on whoever's in front of him. Right. He bent his knees, and he went to jump. And I called it a toddler jump. You know, because like, I have a four-year-old. And when he was learning how to jump and he was like, two, he bent his knees and he'd go to jump, but he wouldn't leave the ground at all. It was just like nailed to the floor. It was the weirdest thing. He literally tried to jump and he only got as high as his tiptoes. And it globally blocked it.

And they went the other way. And I was like, man, man. And even on the defensive end, like, those incredible plays where he covers block to block to get a shot at the rim or trail a guard all the way to the rim that turned a corner on them and it smacked it off the glass. Like those are rare to non-existent now. And yet he's putting up the numbers you're talking about because his shooting touch defies everything I know about like, you know, biomechanics. There's no way a dude that big should have that kind of a shooting touch. He's that talented of a shot maker.

He's always going to put up numbers if he gets touches and plays minutes. So he's giving them that. Now, that other part. Can I stop you on that for one second? Yeah. I'm trying to think of somebody who, somebody else who came into the league as one thing. And 10 years later is a completely different thing, right?

He comes into the league and he's just like, oh my God, this is one of the great big man athletes we've ever seen. This is like, this looks like young Shaq almost. Like, holy shit, where's this going? And then 12 years later, he's on one leg and makes every shot he takes,

it seems like, and all of them don't even hit the rim. And it's like, How did we, how did this guy emerge from what I remember from like the Kansas season and all that? It's just, I think a bizarre evolution. I don't remember anything like it. It's, no, it's incredible. Look, I'll put it this way.

It's nuts because, you know, in one hand, you're always, we're always constantly scrutinizing his injuries and like all that stuff over the last few years. At the same time, I am marveling at his ability to put up those kind of numbers when he's got that level of physical limitation and he's that far from what he was. Right. And still being able to, because some guys, Derek Rose is a great example. I just was talking about the other night because I'm like, Derek Rose, think about all he lost athletically. He came back and he was actually pretty productive. He had some decent years as a totally different shooter, but he wasn't putting up those numbers. Right. Like Embedd is putting up close to the same scoring numbers they did when he was an MVP. And he's playing under like, playing like 27

minutes a game. And he's doing that because he's that good. When you paired out with the back court, Paul George, they've got other pieces like they just got Ubrae back. They've got, you know, McKay. I don't know it's going to happen for him this year, but that's maybe for next year. But like he's always a trade piece. They had that McCain-Graim's combo if they want to train something. And Grimes played so hard defensively. I was so impressed with him when I was in Philly. You cannot dismiss this team's chances to make a real run at the whole conference.

Yeah. They're going to be middling until then. They're going to be up and down. It's funny because you look up, I'm like, looking at their schedule. So they were 24 and 21. And I'm sorry, they were 16 and 11. You're like, okay, that's pretty good. They've got eight and ten cents.

It's like, but they're capable at any given night of looking like, oh my God, how can we forget about this team? So that's kind of where they're at. I texted my buddy house, size and speed. That's what they have, which I don't think anyone else in the east has that combo.

And I don't know if it's sustainable and Embed might get hurt tomorrow. You mentioned the limitations. I remember Duncan in probably around 2011-12 range. One of his legs just stopped working basically and you could see it when you went to the games. He was basically on one leg, but he was so good and his footwork was so good and he was so smart. It just didn't really matter and he just picked his spots, but one of his legs didn't work. And when I watch him beat

it, Sam, I'm like, one of his legs doesn't work. He can't push off it. I don't understand how he's getting to his spots. I don't understand how teams aren't using this against him, but he's making it work. I'm taking them seriously, especially because of the maxi edge comb. I think at home in a playoff series, that team's going to be a nightmare because that crowd loves those guys, you know, and there's an energy in the building. And if they get anything from the bead, who knows? All right, lingering. Lakers, Toronto, Phoenix, we've talked about all of these teams. Just quickly on the Lakers. And I'm sorry for the Toronto and Phoenix fans who are probably like, oh, you skipped over our teams. We've talked about them in the past.

I don't think, I don't see any scenario where the Lakers get out around one of the playoffs. And yet they're 28 and 17 and they have Luca who's one of the best five guys in the league. And they have LeBron who's looked pretty good lately. And they have a lineup that seems to make more sense than it did. And they might even be able to make a trade or two because they have some expirings. And I don't take them seriously at all because I don't think they're going to be able to get stops. But they have a way of just stealing six minutes stretches of these games where, they just all of a sudden they were down eight and then they're up 10.

You know, you kind of don't even know what happened. There's no team in the league like this. I also hate the Lakers. I'm just up for a lead minute. It's my least favorite team. So I'm really against them and I'm probably not the best objective observer. What do you see when you watch this team?

Well, I just see their defense is so bad at times. It's hard for me to wrap my head around, like taking them really seriously, like to potentially win the West, which you would think a team with Luca and LeBron and even a healthy Austin Rees. You think they should be in that mix, just based on those names alone, it's hard for me to get to that point because of how their defense looks for stretches of games. Have he said that, the only two teams in the Western Conference that I would say,

like definitively now and going forward, like they're not beating these two teams in a seven-game series or Oklahoma City and Denver. Now, would I put money on them beating San Antonio? or Houston or Minnesota, I probably wouldn't want to risk. I'm not a gambler anyway, but I probably wouldn't want to risk my money on that. But would I dismiss their chances

of being able to do that with, like, Luka on your team and how good he can be in playoff series and what we've seen him do historically on nights when he's damn near one games by himself? I can't just, and look, because it's not like San Antonio's really young. They haven't gone through any of this. Houston, I like a lot, but they haven't had as good as years I thought they would,

as consistently dominant as I thought they could be. And then Minnesota, you say the same thing about, especially to stretch them in right now. So like, I'm just saying, like, you said there's no way you can envision a scenario where they get out of the first round. I wouldn't go that far depending on what that four, five or six three matchup looked like if they get into that. But I don't think they could be Denver or Oklahoma City if they played them right out of the gate.

And I don't think that's going to have it. I guess conceivably they could end up with Denver in the first round. I guess that's possible. But more likely they get a team like Houston or to get a team like Minnesota. Yeah, the thing that scares me about them, when they want to get like eight minutes of pretty good shots, they seem to be able to do that. And LeBron, who I don't, I don't think LeBron has a first step anymore in the same way in the half court. But coming off a rebound or coming off pace, he still can do the old LeBron, go 60 feet. can't stay in front of him and he's going to get a layup.

And then he's obviously great in the half court, even though I don't think he's the same player anymore. Smart, they're relying on a lot, which would make me nervous. And I think they're losing Aiton once and for all. I just think the confidence in him is fading to the point that you're going to lose him as an asset pretty soon. And they probably already have. So whether they can put him in a trade or whatever, I just think the ship has sailed for

him with them. But, but I mean, to get. to get the athleticism they're getting from LeBron at this age. It's pretty good. I don't think they'll be able to get stops, and I think they're going to lose in round one to whoever they play, but maybe I'll be wrong. I think my strongest argument for them potentially,

potentially being able to beat one of the teams I mentioned. That's why I wouldn't rule it out. Luca did not know how to get Chicago. Like that was Luca to me at his absolute peak in Dallas, where he was less, you know, and it's never going to be nonexistent, less of the distracting stuff with the officials, less of the constant body language that just to me is just like not, you know, doesn't demonstrate enough leadership.

He wasn't doing it as much the other night. And there's some of the passes he threw in that game. By the way, chips in 46 points as well. But some of the passes they threw in that game. And the way that the Bulls had absolutely no chance to stop this guy in the half court, that reminded me a lot of him at his absolute best in Dallas. And that's why I'm saying is capable of doing stuff like. that. If that's one or two games in a seven-game series, that's enough to potentially

shift the series. Well, that's why, as I said, I don't see any scenario where they get out a round one. I also wouldn't bet against them. I'm just like the look of that game he had the other night. It's just like the ceiling's off in Alderet. The ceiling and the floor is off. I don't know what to expect from them. If he just decides to do that for two months, what are we going to do? Clippers number 10, they're officially the sleeper. even though they are still under 500. We talked about them already. The only thing I wanted to mention was five weeks ago,

we were terrified that OKC was going to go 75 and 7 and that the quippers were going to give them a top three pick. And now times have changed. So anyway, Zach did a good job of breaking them down with Moe and his podcast, but the five-out thing that they can do now, I think, is the biggest thing I've noticed, that they have looks now. I don't think they knew what the hell they were those first four weeks.

and Kauai wasn't really back and fully Kauai. And it was just kind of the James Hardwich. It was awful. Now they have different things they can do. They got some young guys off the bench now, and they're just, they have a little bit more of a defensive bite than I needed. They figured out to use Collins.

I think they're good. I'm taking them seriously. I'm taking them more seriously than the Lakers. What's crazy is, what's crazy is like this is how buried they were. They've won 15 out of 18, and they're still six games away from getting out of playing. I am unbelievable.

Like to catch the six seats. So, you know, can you make up, can they make up six additional games on a team like Minnesota or a team like the Lakers? Like, can you make up six, seven games on those teams with 30 something to go? Probably not. So you're talking about most likely going to be like, you know, a high-seated playing team, a seven or something. Like that's the route they're going to have to take, even if they continue to play out of their minds, because that's just a lot of ground to make up on other teams that are pretty good teams. I don't know they can do that. That's a horror show matchup for the one seed.

You'd be like, oh, cool, we're the one seed. We get to play. We don't know if Kauai's can be healthy in two months, but who knows? Next group is lurking, and this is just Cleveland in New York. Cleveland's 28 and 20. New York is 27-18. Cleveland, last 15 games, 11 and 4. You saw them in person.

You saw an awesome Mobley game. In general, I never really gave up on this team because it wasn't like they could make a trade. They were so hampered by the apron. It wasn't like, it's kind of like, this is your team. So you have 82 games to figure this out. You have a lot of talent. Are you going to figure it out? They look better than it did.

I want to mention they have a five game West trip coming. And I think this is, we'll know when they go on this trip. If they're gonna start to look like the 16 game win streak team from last year, the way, going on the West Coast and being on the road and being together, like this is usually when it comes together. So I'm monitoring that trip. It's, they absolutely are starting to come together. Yeah.

I've been scratching my head all year. about this team that last year was unstoppable most nights offensively and also really good defensively a lot of nights. But their offense was literally they'd hit you with an onslaught of offense that you couldn't recover from last year

and it wasn't a lot of that this year. You know, Garland's been hurt and took him some time to come back and DeAndre Hunter just hasn't shot the ball well all year. So, and you know, Merrill now out, they haven't had strews. There's like a lot of reasons,

a lot of different lineups. All these teams deal with it. They've had a lot of it. They're starting to convince me more here. Like, okay, like, they're getting it together. Not fully like, okay, there you go. Now we're good to go the rest of the year, but definitely a better product than you were seeing

over the first couple months. I'm monitoring them. The Knicks, this goes back to our regular season versus playoffs discussion. They're six and nine in their last 15. Catch them on the wrong night. They look awful. I still think when we get to the playoffs, it would be a different story.

The town's piece is, worth monitoring because it's weird that his offense went backwards and he seems to be a little bit of a lightning rod these days. But we've already talked about the next in this pot. All right. Second and last group is the contenders. I still have Houston as a legitimate contender. So I have seven teams left. Houston, Boston, San Antonio, Minnesota, Detroit, Denver, and OKC. Are you good with that as a final seven here? Or is there a team that would you put Cleveland or New York in that final seven? Give me that seven again.

Houston, Boston, San Antonio, Minnesota, Detroit, Denver, and OKC. Would you have jumped Cleveland or New York over any of those teams? Man, it's tough right now because it's like... Sounds like you're down on Houston a little bit. Well, I was. I actually punished them severely when they lost to the Kings. I punished them. I banished them to 10th on my like rankings in the West alone.

Wow. And I didn't obviously fully buy into that. But I was like, this was at a time when the Kings were losing by 30 to everybody. Yeah. And then they get them. And losing that game, I was like, are you kidding? And everybody played. Everybody played.

It wasn't like they sat guys. Everyone was there. They were trying to win the game. And they got beat by the Kings. I punished them. I'm, I was just a temporary thing. Obviously. They're out of solitary confinement.

They're out of solitary. They're back. They're back out. They're back out in the yard. Yeah. You're back out, you know, I'm letting them out. But obviously, they've got the talent and they've got the talent on both ends of the Florida.

Yes, they have to be still considered in the mix. You know, some of the Minnesota is just kind of like, man, like, you know, you're asking me at a time when they're playing the way they're playing now. Like, I'm kind of going, yeah, I mean, I guess you'd have to put almost New York and Cleveland kind of in that boat. Yeah, might be a nine-person contender group. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not ready to do. I think over the two.

between the Knicks and the Cavs, I'd probably be more likely to go with the Knicks. But it's six, one, a half dozen the other, honestly. So Houston number seven, they still have a, they're still plus 6.2 per 100, which is fourth in the league. There's still 12 games over 500.

The thing that's weird with this team, so you would think KD and Shengun and Jabari and Reed Shepard and Amin Thompson, you'd think that's my five. If I'm going to do anything in the playoffs, KD, Shengoon, Jabari, Reed, Amman Thompson. Those are going to be my five. That gives him the most flexibility.

I can put Reed in the corner. He can run fast breaks. I have scoring. I have size. I can kind of hide Reed on their worst player in the other team. Thompson can guard everybody. That's minus 2.2 this season,

those five guys together. And it kind of matches watching their games and wondering why when those guys play together, why it's not better. And I don't know what is missing with those five. So what do you think? KD. Shangoon, Jabari, Reid, Amen Thompson. Why isn't

that a kick-ass five? What am I missing? Yeah. Well, I think that it's more of even more so than I think that not five. Two things I think that they have shown me that is why I'm not fully bowed in. I do think their offense can be

stagnant and stale sometimes. No question. They're not making teams. guards them. They're making it easy to be guarded. And I think there's more there that they could do with just motions and movements and cuts and like weak side action taking place multiple actions at the same time of different sides of the floor. They're very predicated on, get the ball in the hands of KD or Shengun and they're just going to play out of that and see what happens. And I think they make themselves easier to guard than they have to. The other thing, and I said this

last week. I think there's one of the most untapped weapons in this lead is Amman Thompson in the post. I don't know why they haven't really examine it. He never goes down there.

I would throw in him on the post but then also when they spread out their team and he just tries to beat people one-on-one. I always feel like he's getting a layup. I'm with you. Like he's some sort of force and I don't know what. Maybe they don't know how to harness. it. But even in the, and I agree with you to one-on-one stuff, but even then you can kind of at least,

you can kind of back up, dare him to take a pull of 15 foot over the hand in his face. Yeah, good point. When he posts up the rare times that he does, but I'm thinking of potentially viewing this, he's so quick off his feet. He's slithery. Incredible athlete down there, and he's a good passer. So if you, if you put him in a one-on-one situation, you know, do you want to leave Reed Shepard? Do you want to leave Kevin Durant? Like, do you want to rotate off those guys to even Shangoon? Like, do you want to leave those guys to go double Amit Thompson Post? That's a tough call.

And I just think he could- Jabbar in the corner. He could just learn how to go two, three dribbles with a guy on his back. And, like, the different spins he could get into because he's so lightning quick off his feet, it would put a lot of pressure with defense trying to figure out. I'm not, you know, run your offense that way. But why you can't do that, five, six possessions a game, four, four possessions a game, one, a quarter even, they don't ever do it.

And I think that would be something I would look at the team and go, wow, that's a nice other option to go to for a stretch of a game if Durant's getting a blow. Let's see how teams guard that. That's a tough matchup for guys that spot have to guard him.

They're smaller and they're not nearly as quick as him. And so I just think it's something else. I love that. That's really smart. Yeah, it doesn't feel like they've fully understood how to use him. But what's funny is nobody posts up anymore.

Right? That's very true. But I always feel like, except for wings. True. Like wings and point guards do, but big guys don't. True. Like Peyton Pritchard's post to go. I'm always for anything that makes the defense panic.

And I think if you spread things around with him, that would actually work. But I haven't given up on Houston. I think we'll be hearing for them. Adams seems like he's going to be out for a while. Adams is one of those guys that seems like he gets hurt every year, though. So I'm not, I'm not sure. I'm sure that's why they got Capella. He's such a difference maker too.

my goodness. Number six, Boston, we don't have to talk about them. Number five, San Antonio. I feel like we've talked about them a bunch. Number four, Minnesota, 28 and 19, eight and seven in their last 15. Also some terrible stuff going on in the city,

which I'm sure isn't, you know, when you're trying to play basketball and stay focused on stuff, having your city falling apart around you, probably isn't awesome. I'm not giving up on this team either. I do worry about them in the playoffs when they're up five with a minute left

and these teams that they're playing are just like, let's go get the ball. They don't have a point card. And they just get attacked. And it's like watching a football team under attack in like a two-minute drill. And all of a sudden it seems like they can't dribble the ball over half court.

And I don't know how they fix that. How do they fix it? That personnel dictates they really can't unless they make a change in personnel. Now, they can't. And that's one of the reasons that I, like, they're off, they're, they're so difficult to come to a full evaluation of because they can be so good defensively some nights. And obviously, Anthony Edwards can can just be too good for some defense or some nights. But that's just so much to put on his plate.

Right. All the time every night. Like he, not because he's such an explosive, talented scorer. And he's gotten better at reading defenses and getting the ball out of traffic and all of that. But that's just so much to put on a guy's plate. that should just be raw go attack, like all the time without having to think that way. But I think he has to because they don't have the personnel

to really do that around him. And I think it is a hole with their team that hasn't really been filled. I think you and I both value the point guard position. You know what's nice sometimes? A point guard, a guy who can dribble who's looking around and be like, hey, he hasn't had a shot in a while. Hey, we have a fast break rebound.

I'll run the fast break and get somebody a layup. It's nice to have one. everyone's fine. That's why I'm not you, by a picked up game, and I just take a look and I see a guy running the show that way, you know? Yeah, and it gives you a little hop on your stuff. 45-year-old, you know, weekend warrior guide, but he knows how to run a team. Yeah. There you go. Just give him a shout out through the window. Well, that's why when I watch Reed Shepherd, I'm like, I feel like it's in there with him. I could see him like running a team. Like we talked in a past podcast about a little Mark Price. Yeah, there's some Mark Price. Yeah,

there's some Mark Price stuff. More Athletic Mark Price. That's kind of what he reminds me of. I'm so glad he's had the year. He's had the year that he's had because it was a lot of scrutiny on him. And early on, you weren't sure, like, oh, man, which way is this going to go? He has really stepped up. And he's on the court, as you already mentioned.

He's on the court for a lot of their important runs in games. He reminds me of my guy, Drake May a little bit. Like silent assassin. Doesn't really talk that much sneaky, competitive, just ready to fight. I just want to bring Drake Mayan in the podcast. Number three. Minnesota, we'll see.

I don't know how they can make a trade with how handicapped are by the roster, but I think that point guards to sit. Even though I have them fourth, because I'm almost projecting some sort of move, if this is the roster in May, they're dropping out of the top seven. Detroit number three, we talked about them a little bit already.

My only thing with him, one shooter short, 27th and three point attempts, 17th and three point percentage. And I feel like so much is on Kate at the end of these games. The Lavert thing, which I didn't like when they did it. And it doesn't seem like it's worked. And he's $14 million this year and $14 million next year.

They have all their picks. It feels like that's the move. Something with Levert and a pick and just try to get somebody who's more reliable. They could go nuts and try to do Troy Murphy. I don't know if I'm New Orleans. I'm not trading for all of Detroit's picks because they're going to be good for the next five years. But there's a move, right? There's something. Could it be Clay Thompson for Lavert? I don't know. There's some sort of veteran

shooter that I want to trust in the last five minutes of the game that will give them space. I don't know. I like that. I think that's the only thing I see. One thing that I've been, is there a three-point shooting. That's a legitimate thing. Like they're, you know, the thing that there's going to be nights in playoff series when they make eight threes and the other team makes 15. Yeah. Right. That's, that's tough to overcome that. I don't care how good your mid-range is and you get to the line and you can score in the paint, at some nights it's going to require you to make 12, 15, maybe 18-3s in a game. And they, that's the one thing about the team.

But when I start to think about that, what I counter that with is their ability to show up with this absolute focused business-like approach. and the fact that they've lost, I think two games in a row, three times all year, never more than that. They always come back quickly when you think that they're like, okay, look at Detroit.

They've run off five in a row again. They've been doing it all year. I just love how serious they are. They're tough. They're going to come at you. They want to fight in an alley when the game starts, that they're ready for that,

and they've got a star that you can't speed up. He plays how he wants to play under the most pressurized moments. But the shooting is a thing. And we'll see if that ends up costing them at some point down the road. Friday night I watched a bunch of basketball,

including Denver, I'm sorry, Detroit versus Houston. Those are probably the top two seeds and these guys might fight tournament when you're, and they were together and it was like, there's actually might be a fight in this game. And there was a couple times it was brewing. And even in the fourth quarter,

there was a couple of guys had to get separated. But Detroit's ready. to roll. That's why I want them to get a shooter, but I would also love to see them get one more one more chest out guy because I think that's a real asset for them. They're a real hard team for the Celtics because they're so physical and they're so tough. And the Celtics, you know, it's a younger team. They don't have a ton of size. And you put somebody like Stewart out there and he's, you know, moving bodies. He's intimidating. Endurant too. I think I just went, he's my most improved guy this year. I'm voting for him. I'm just telling you.

it's a great call he has to be an all-star um and i love the point you're making about the toughest because you don't rarely see teams this young that are this tough typically you get those are teams that got like a bunch of veterans sprinkled in there it's a group of young guys that all have the same look on their face and i i just i don't know i'm just so impressed and they give jb all the credit in the world man he did a great job in cleveland too and he just you know i'm glad that he ended up in a place where he could go win right away you know some of those guys, they win, then they get fired, and then they got to go their next job is a 20 win team. And you don't know if it's ever going to turn out for him to go to a place that was a bad

team, but had a lot of time to turn it around where both he and Kenny Atkinson end up in good places is two of my favorite guys. So I'm happy for both of them. You know what's funny about that team? Because this happened in the Houston game. Jabari Smith almost got into it. And the Pistons have a couple guys in their team that are, we have to get this guy out of the situation. guys where you can see the other team the other teammates are like oh shit we got to get Ron Holland out of here now something's going to happen and they have like Isaiah Stewart's like that they have like three of those guys there was like oh shit they've like they've like hired extra

coaches on staff and that's all their body they're not even a bar yeah they got it from some nightclub and they know how to get out there quickly and separate people just you got to do it uh all right the favorites i think Detroit if that's my gun to the head team in the east I would pick them because I think they have a trade to make right now if I's who's going to win the east I'm projecting whatever trade it is but I really like that team they're going to have home court and I just think that I think it's all lined up for them they have a top seven guy now if they don't add another piece I get more worried because I think there's a same nest how they play that I think you get used to in a series I'm just assuming they're going to get somebody

Also this massive, massive X-factor hanging over to Eastern Conference with Jason Tatum, possibly being injected into like a playoff run by the Celtics. I don't even want to talk about that. Okay. So like there's that hanging out there. So like as good as it looks for Detroit now, we know things. Listen, if he doesn't say he didn't even play and Boston somehow makes it to the conference finals, I mean, that's one of the great coaching jobs and like stories like we've seen in a long,

long time in this league. But if he comes back and none of these other teams, he's coming back. The question is, how good is he going to be? Yeah, right. We will see him again. Yeah, he's going to play. I agree. I'm going to write down every week who I think is going to

come out of the east, and I bet it changes every week. This week I'm picking Detroit. Next week will be another pick. All right, the favorites. We'll go through these quickly. Denver number two. I used to have OKC is the sole favorite. I have now moved Denver into that group together, partly because this no Joker run was so important for their young guys.

I mean, Watson in January is averaging 23 and 6 a game. 50% 49 from 3. Like this is whatever happens when Joker comes back, the fact that they know that they have what they got from Watson and Pickett, even a little nodgy, I just think you can't put a price on that. Like this is the most important thing

that could have happened on them, them surviving without the best guy in the league. It's crazy. I never, ever in a million years would have predicted it. The other thing would be Gordon's Hamys. We'll see what happens with them. You know, real quick on Watson, like the, you know, because this has been a big conversation, obviously, for like a month.

Yeah. I will play. But, you know, I'm being realistic about all of it saying, okay, get everybody back out there. Aaron Gordon, Christian Brown, Yokic. He doesn't go back to what he was. Okay. So he's more than that now.

but at the same time, there's only so many opportunities in a given night when you add all those guys to the mix. So his numbers are going to obviously take a big hit. But here's what they did find. They found this because they're going to need this. There's going to be nights in big games

where now maybe somebody's hurt or foul trouble or he just gets it going. He's now capable of giving you a 20-point playoff game. And this was a guy that was like, he almost became robotic to me in like his decision making he was all about I'm just going to guard

because I don't offense, I don't even, I don't even factor offensively for this team. I didn't know what he was offensive I'm like me neither. He's gone from that

to a guy now that I think is going to be a turning point in games for the Nuggets. I agree. In the playoffs, it's crazy. Well,

you know it's funny. They also have Tim Hardaway who I think once around will probably have a good half where I'll be like Tim Hardaway said four threes that's all it takes. They have,

They have wild cards that last year you think like DeAndre Jordan was playing in playoff games for them. And they had their fingers crossed every minute, Joker what. I personally, they would be my gun to the head pick right now. And I don't think that's going to change over the course of the next couple weeks because I just, I just think there. I can't imagine Yokech is only going to win one title. I keep coming back to that. So they have this is the best supporting cast he's ever had. Does the best Murray's ever looked?

Is Cam Johnson going to be healthy ever? I don't know. That's the next factor too. It would be nice if he could just play basketball. But for the most part, if they can get everybody back in April, this team's a monster. And then OKC is the other one. They're 30 and 7 and 10 now.

They're 12 and 8 in their last 20. And J. Dub and Hartinstein have only played half this season. I don't really know how, worried you should be here. I guess the only things that would worry me are the three-point shooting, which has been bad, and the fact that they don't get offensive rebounds at all. So when the three-point shooting goes away and the league's better, and it feels like you can get them late now, like they're losing like a couple of two-point, two-point games that I just don't feel like they were losing the same way last year. What else are you seeing?

Yeah, they've had three of those type of losses in the last three weeks. And that wasn't the case like a year ago. Here's what's happened with Oklahoma City, and it's the best thing that could have happened really to the league, you know, is they went from an inevitability of repeating, which is what it looked like to me. I was just like, we're going to go ahead and play this out, but what's the point? I mean, you know, and I know they got taken the seven games twice last year, but the fact that they had this strange offseason because they were champions, a bunch of young guys that come in and it gets paid. Like, and that's, That didn't, that, there wasn't even a blip on the radar for them.

They roll out to 24 and 1 to start the year. I'm like, forget it, man. Like, how are we supposed to deal with this team? And again, defensive numbers off the charts. Here's what this happened in the last three, what, what that happened? Plus four weeks. Yeah, four or five weeks. Basically what happened in a month, really, yeah, is they look like they can be had, right?

They can be had if certain things happen. Now, you said gun to head Denver. gunned ahead for me right now would probably be OKC. I'm not ready to just act like, you know, with them at their best isn't still something I'd look at as the standard. But they've now opened the door to the conversation. That's what they've done. Even the struggles I had with San Antonio, like three times and 10 days,

that's not a fluke. Like there's something there. Denver, at full strength, you're going, my goodness, like that with Yokic getting another shot at that team again, with a better supporting cast around him, like, yeah, You might want to bet on yoga, but here's the thing. We haven't seen Denver like that yet because everybody's been out. So we're going to see this and we're going to revisit this a couple of times,

I'm sure at least several times before we're done the season going into the playoffs. It could change. But right now I'm still kind of hanging with them. But the fact that we're even having the conversation that there's doubt is made everything more interesting in the NBA. Well, can I give you a scenario here? Yeah. It would, it would have required.

San Antonio is 31 and 15 in Houston. So it would require Houston somehow jumping San Antonio and it would require Denver doing a little better. There is an OKC San Antonio 1 slash 4 scenario in round two. Oh, yeah. And then there's a Denver, Houston three two round. Like basically there's a way for this to happen where San Antonio OKC would be the round two matchup.

I think that would suck for OKC. I'm not saying they would lose, but that would have to be their worst case scenario than to have to play San Antonio in Denver. the next round. So I would just watch those top four spots. The Lakers are kind of lurking, but I don't, I just think it's going to be those four in some order after

OKC. And where they end up, can Denver get to the two seed when Yokage comes back so they could at least have home court in the first two rounds? There's been some good jockeying. They'll be a two seed when it's all set and done, which is actually amazing that we're not even talking about beyond that because

as much as we've acted like Oklahoma City, so vulnerable. They're five and a half games up. Right. Right. So, you know what I mean? And that could end up being eight when it's all set and done. Who knows? But I think Denver will get the two seed and prolong seeing Oklahoma City as long as they can. What's your Super Bowl pick? I'm going with Seattle. I'm going with Seattle. Because you work for ESPN and that's just what everybody did. They poured the Kool-Aid down your throat? It's as simple as this. I'm an NFC guy.

I'm an NFC. Okay. That's been my conference, my entire life. I'm an NFC guy. Look, this would be incredible if the New England pulls this off, man. It's almost, it's not even fair to you people that root for these teams up in that. People hate us. It's great.

We're so back. You just had Tom Brady for 20 years. You know, you're back in the Super Bowl? We made it. For the 22-year-old quarterback? Come on, man. Listen, we suffered for five full years. It was terrible.

I was just completely irrelevant. I still, though, I'm going to wonder for a long time what the hell Sean Payton was doing, not kicking that field. But that's another, for another day. I was on multiple Pat's fan text threads

praying for them to go for it. Yeah. That situation, I didn't want to go to nothing. Please go for it because you're just looking at the conditions and the way this game is going. You're like, that 10 point lead,

it looks insurmountable. Plus, even if they got it, it didn't guarantee they were going to score a touchdown. They just sort of been first and goal on the nine. The risk reward was not there. There's no basketball version of this where people have just decided you should just go for it blindly at all these fourth downs. Because I always feel like you got to bring in the situation. That Denver, New England thing, and Seth Wickersham wrote a great piece about it.

The perfect example of like throw away the analytics and think about the actual situation and what's going on. and the fact that the Patriots offense couldn't do anything, and you could go up 10-0 at home with a blizzard coming, take the points. Forget about the analytics. Forget about, oh, we could go up 14-0. Cool. You could also just go up 10-0 and make us try to get two scores on you,

and you didn't do it. And you gave us a slag. You know, what's going on currently changes your thinking? I'll give you an example. Two years ago, I'm a commander's fan, right? We go to the NFC championship game that year. We went forward on every fourth down all season. It got every one of them because,

Jaden Daniels. 20 for 23. Impossible to stop. Yeah. So now, you know, going into that year, I wasn't that aggressive with it. Now, by midseason that year, every single time, ah, why do we even have a punter? Just cut the punter. We don't need a punter.

We're going to go for it every fourth down all season. Like, that's where I got to. So it is amazing how, like, you can change your thinking based on like current success with something. Tasting anything. Last thing I had for you, I talked about son, an NBA mailbag. a rule in the last minute of a game, if a team's up four and there's a foul,

the team that's up only takes one free throw. If they make it, it counts for two points and we keep the game going. Or we can say last 30 seconds, whatever it is, last 30, you're up. You foul me, I'm up four because you want to stop the clock. One free throw, I get two. If I miss it, I still get to take the other free throw.

But if I make it, I get two points for the one. free throw. To penalize the team for trying to foul and get back in the game? Yeah. Yeah. Why? Because I don't like the fouling. The fouling is out of control.

We're seeing teams now proactively fouling to try to game it with like 37 seconds left. I just don't like it. It starts too. It starts. Even the whole thing up three, protecting a three point lead and how early some of these teams are found. I think it's a massive mistake, by the way, strategically. To me, if you're up there, I've seen teams do it 15.

16 seconds left in the game. Right. I hate it. You have any idea how much longer you're extending the game? Because you're also going to put pressure on yourself to make free throws. Right. And you're going to miss one eventually. I just think it's silly.

Like you get down at that seven, six second range. Yeah, I see it. I get the point then what some of these teams are doing it for 15 to 20 seconds left in the game, up three. They're already taking fouls. I don't get it. All right. Tim Legler, Cleveland and who tomorrow?

Lakers, man. Oh, there you go. We got a good one. Yeah, we got a good one. That's a good one. Playing pretty well, yeah. So I'm looking forward to it, man. All right, great to see you.

A pleasure, as always. I'll see you in February. You got it, Bill. Thanks. Thanks. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Legs, thanks to Eduardo and Gahau as well. Don't forget, new rewatchables went up.

Zodiac, which you can also watch on Netflix, and you can get that podcast wherever you want, including on Netflix. Wow, thanks coming next week on the rewatchables. I have one more podcast coming. on Thursday as we start to get ready. Notice how I didn't talk about the Patriots really at all during this podcast. I was really proud of myself. I'm saving my thoughts.

I'm listening. I'm listening. There's already been some disparaging comments made in media circles. I'm hearing everything. We'll be talking about the Super Bowl over the next week and a half. Anyway, I will see you in this feed on Thursday. Must be 21 plus on President Select States for Kansas and affiliation. with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in president in D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming,

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