The Bill Simmons Podcast - Will L.A. Get LeBron AND Kawhi? Plus: Summer Free-Agency Predictions With Haralabos Voulgaris | The Bill Simmons Podcast (Ep. 383)

Episode Date: June 29, 2018

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Haralabos Voulgaris to talk about LeBron's decision, the best team to chase a ring, and the possibility of the Lakers pulling off a superteam. They wrap by going through some major 2018 free agents. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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So we have July 4th coming on Wednesday. We have, I am doing a podcast on Monday and on Friday. And if something absolutely crazy happens late Tuesday night or Wednesday as well. The biggest thing though, the rewatchables, July 4th, Jaws, me, Chris Ryan, Sean Fantasy. We've been waiting our entire lives to do this. And if any major basketball stuff happens,

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This is the calm before the storm. It is June 29th. We're taping this at 10 o'clock AM Pacific time. I woke up this morning and found out LeBron James had opted out of his contract with the Cleveland Cavaliers, which basically eliminated the Houston Rockets from the LeBron James sweepstakes. Did he opt out or did he just fail to exercise his option, which is the same thing, right? Same thing. Yeah. He's basically like, I'm a free agent. You can pay me $35 million next year. No,

thanks. I'm on my own. So it looks like we are down to three teams. And the third team, I'm not even convinced is an option, but it is the Lakers where people have thought he was going for a year, staying home at the Cleveland Cavaliers or maybe Philly. I think that is a super long shot. I would, if I was doing handicapping, I would have the Lakers at minus 400.

These are my favorite times on the podcast. When you're doing handicapping, I'm setting the number. Yeah, when I'm the book. When I'm the book. I like this part. I got Lakers at minus 400. These are my favorite times on the podcast. When you're doing handicapping, I'm saying the number. Yeah, when I'm the book. When I'm the book. I like this part. I got Lakers at minus 400. Maybe even minus 500 you could talk me into. I have the Cavs at plus 300 and I

would put the Sixers at 20 to 1. Those would be my odds. What do you think? Yeah, I don't know about the odds, but I will say that I think he's going to the Lakers. And we've thought this for like a year. Yeah, I mean, I thought this for a while. I wasn't sure, but of late I've come to, I mean, if look, what does he want?

Does he want to live out here with his family, have a better life? You moved here. I've lived here at some point for short periods of time. It's a nice place to live. Is that his best option? I don't think he comes to LA without one or two, either Kawhi or PG.

I just don't think that happens. I don't see him moving here, wanting to play in LA with and surrounding himself with the young players that the Lakers have. I don't think that's, I think, I think he's basically said, I'm coming to the Lakers. If you get me Kawhi, it's a done deal. Go get me Kawhi. And now that's what the Lakers are trying to do. So, all right. There's a lot to unpack in this whole thing. If they get Kawhi and I think they're going to,

I think this is done. I think, by the way, I wouldn't bet my life on it. It's hard because the Spurs now are in control. Not Kawhi, not LeBron. The Spurs are in control. They're in control, but they're not. Because Kawhi, I created a concept called pre-agency. I heard that.

I thought it was brilliant. So Kawhi is exercising his pre-agency now and the Celtics are sniffing around, the Sixers are sniffing around and probably a couple of random teams wouldn't even know. Yeah. And they're getting feedback from Kawhi's team. He's going to LA in a year. You can trade for him, but that's fine. He's leaving in a year. He wants to play in LA. So what is the market now for a one-year Kawhi rental? Is it better than the market would be for him to go to LA? So what could the Lakers offer the Spurs that would make it

so that the Spurs could actually swallow the fact that they're basically gifting the Lakers to the top four players in the league? Okay. Because that's an important question, I think. Because the Spurs may not have any leverage a year from now but they do have leverage right now and if LeBron wants to play with Kawhi

they have to go through the Spurs RCB for Popovich control that the best case scenario for this if you're the Spurs is what happened with the Nuggets and the Knicks in 2011 where the Knicks could have just waited

to sign Carmelo right the owner got James Dolan. That's not going to happen. But he got super antsy about, what if we don't trade for him now? And then they end up giving up all these assets

for a guy they could have signed. Yeah. I think the same thing is in place here where you have an antsy Lakers team. For sure. If I'm the Spurs, I know I can get good assets from them. Right. I think there's a lot of bluffing going on.

There's bluffing that LeBron may not sign with the Lakers unless they get Kawhi or say PG maybe. And then there's bluffing from the Spurs and that they're like, well, we're not trading you to the Lakers. Find someplace else to go.

I mean, there's a lot of that going on. It's just a question of who will flinch first. Well, but hold on though. Okay. If I'm the Spurs, I actually can get a really good deal. The one thing is I'm not taking Lewald Dang's contract. You're not putting that in the deal. It's like, I'll do it. I'll take Brandon Ingram back. Absolutely. He has to be in the deal. Sure. Who else has to be in the deal? I'd like to get Kuzma back. they reported that and i've heard this i've talked to some people in the nba circles everybody across the board is like they don't want lonzo in the

deal i think that's crazy if i'm the spurs i'm just getting lonzo back i'll just repackage him somewhere else but he's still an asset yeah number two pick in the draft a year ago he can't be worth nothing no i mean obviously i'm azo Stan. I think he's... Me too. But we're in the minority, I think. Because some people are like, nobody wants to deal with his dad. He's not that good. And screw that guy. Not wanting to deal with his dad is

definitely an issue. I don't think that that's something that'll fly in San Antonio. But you and I would trade for him. We'd deal with his dad. I'd just ban his dad from the arena. I have no team. But yeah, would I trade for him we'd deal with his dad i just tell i just banned his dad from the arena i mean i have no team so i don't know i would but yeah would i trade for him it depends i mean look i think that if you look if you look at his on-court performance his jump shot's questionable obviously yeah but he's an underrated defender may even be a very good defender if you look at how well that team

has played on the court when he's played the the team has played quite well. They've outperformed their expectations and he's still a rookie. He's 20 years old. Yeah. I also really like Brandon Ingram. An exceptional passer. He is. Exceptional. And rebounds for a guard.

Look, he's a good player. He's smart. He's young. He has a chance. I'm not saying he's guaranteed to be great, but he has a chance to be great. I wonder if the Spurs are almost like, yeah, Lonzo can't be in the deal because it's like this tactical play to be like, all right, fine. We'll take Lonzo, the second guy in the leverage a year from now, but they have leverage now. Teams aren't willing to wait a year in some cases. The teams in the East certainly aren't willing to wait a year. Boston filled the teams that have no chance of resigning.

He's just going to go straight or signing. Excuse me, go straight to LA. And the Lakers also don't really have a lot of leverage either because they're trying to get LeBron. And Kawhi alone doesn't do it for them. You know, Magic Johnson has created this where he'll resign if he doesn't sign. He's created his own pressure. Rather than just be like, look, this has been a long rebuilding process.

We've dug ourselves out of the hole. We've got some time. We're going to add a piece at least this year or next year. But he's created this pressure for himself, which I think is great. I think it's awesome. I love Magic. Ingrams, you like Ingram even a little bit more than I do. And I like Ingram a lot.

You think he has a chance to be a number one guy and a contender at some point in his life? I don't know. I mean, if you took a look at him, you wouldn't think that. He looks very slim right now. But I mean, if you look at what Durant was like when he was Ingram's age,

I'm not saying he's Durant, but he's probably a better ball handler and playmaker than Durant was at this stage in his career. He wasn't a better scorer than Durant. That's not, you know, that's not- He didn't have that kind of, Durant was always one of those, he's getting 20 to 30 points every game, no matter what.

If you remember when Durant was a rookie and a second year player, there was that guy, you know, pretty smart guy, Wayne Winston, who worked at one point for the Mavs and also developed adjusted plus minus. So this isn't a guy who's just some kook, right? He's someone who basically created Adjusted Plus Minus,

which is something that has been used in gambling. It's been used in whatever. It's a good tool. He said that he would not trade for Kevin Durant for anything. I remember that was a terrible take. It was a terrible take. But my point is, is that there was data that would,

you know, iTest would say you're crazy, but the data said Kevin Durant doesn't make people around him better. This is why I don't like data sometimes though, because so much of that was circumstance. PJ Carlissimo was playing with the two guard. Yes, of course. No, that's a good point. But if your goal is just to evaluate players who have already matured and where they're at, then that's a tool that could make sense. Right. My point isn't, my point was just that Brandon Ingram has a long ways to go. And I think that he could be a very, very good player,

a very good player. I mean, look at that situation in LA. Um, you've got the Lonzo ball and his dad circus. You have last year, D'Angelo. Yeah.

You had D'Angelo and Nick Young running the show. Two coaches in two years. Yeah. It's not easy going from being a young kid to also now living in LA with all this money and all this fame. And then you're on a team that's dysfunctional with no veterans. And it's just tough. So I do like Brandon Ingram.

I think he's going to be a very good player. And I think if I was the Spurs, I would make sure I got Brandon Ingram. And I would I, I do like Brandon Ingram. I think he's going to be a very good player. And I think if I was the Spurs, I would make sure I got Brandon Ingram and I would try to get Lonzo ball as well. I like that. He can get to the rim. He can do, I mean,

they played him at the point for a while and they were very good when he played it almost, it almost, um, yeah, they were a very good team. Like I, I,

I like Brandon Ingram. I think Banner's got to play. I like Lonzo Ball too. I think if I'm the Spurs, you know, I tweeted this out a week ago or maybe that, and I think the Spurs are bluffing. They said they wouldn't trade him

to anywhere in the Western Conference. I think you just take the best deal possible. You didn't like that. No, first of all, you got mad on Twitter when that happened. I did get mad on Twitter. I got mad in real life and it manifested itself on Twitter

because I just think that you just do the best that you can. I never believed that for a second. What if the league, by the way, decides to cede one to 16? That might happen, by the way. Nobody, it makes zero sense to be like, I'm cutting our options in half for where we trade our best assets. Sure. So you wouldn't take Steph Curry for him, right? Because I'm not trading him in my conference. Yeah. You just trade our best asset. Sure. So you wouldn't take Steph Curry for him, right? Because I'm not trading him in my conference. Oh, Jesus. Yeah.

You just take the best deal. Oh, they offered Nikola Jokic and Jamal Murray for Kawhi, but we can't. Can't do it. We might, but we're playing him two more times. Yeah. So if they, so here's the thing, and this is why I actually think this will be the trade. So they get Ingram, they get Lonzo and they get Kuzma. That's too much. All in the same trade. I mean, that and they get Kuzma. That's too much.

All in the same trade. I mean, that's a no brainer, but that's too much. I don't think, then I don't, but they, but they,

my point is they would have to say yes. Who would have to say yes? Disperse. I mean, I don't think the Lakers would offer all three of those guys. But here's why they might. Okay. The Lakers might?

Yeah. Okay. Their goal, they're in 2008 Celtics mode, right? When, when Danny traded the number five pick for Ray Allen, every Celtic fan, including myself, was like, what are you doing?

That's crazy. Great. We locked down 44 wins. We have Ray Allen and Paul Pierce and young Al Jefferson and nothing else. Why would we do this? But they did it because it paved the way for the third guy. Right? Yeah. And then the KG trade comes and now they have Pompers, Rayon and KG. If they can get, look, if they can get PG,

Kawhi and LeBron. But if you get Kawhi and LeBron, now you get PG. So I think they're playing the long game. They're like, all right, we overpay a little for Kawhi, but that's now guaranteeing us we get PG. And now we have these three guys. And as you know, in an NBA team, once you have your three, you can fill in the rest. We've seen that over and over again. I mean, those three players would be ridiculous on the same team. They'd be ridiculous.

Even if you just had Brooke Lopez and I don't even know who else the Lakers have. Could they re-sign Randall at that point? I mean, that's a good team. That's a very good team. Josh Hart. Who else? I don't know who else they have under contract

at point guard position. They lose a lot of minimum guys, but as we've seen in the NBA year after year, you get the Iliosova, Billinelli, and February type guys. You get the ring chasers, the guys who want to... I mean, this isn't a tough sell. Come live in LA, play for the Lakers

with LeBron and Kawhi. Well, the other thing is if they can somehow get Kawhi without giving up Lonzo and they just give up

like unprotected first down the road. I don't think Lonzo is, I think I would rather give up Lonzo if I'm the Lakers than Brandon Ingram

just because, not because I think Lonzo is better than Brandon Ingram, although, or worse than Brandon Ingram just because not because I think Lonzo is better than Brandon Ingram although or worse than Brandon Ingram although he may be I just think that for that team I don't know that I mean look maybe I just look at you'll get Paul George Kawhi Leonard

and LeBron James LeBron kind of likes to have the ball in his hand a lot yeah so Lonzo can't play off the ball not at this point in his career he can't shoot so now what do you do? Can I counter that one? Of course. First of all, Ingram's the prize. The Spurs, they have to get Ingram if they trade Kawhi.

I don't see any way they don't do it. Would you rather have Ingram or Jalen Brown? Here we go. It's tough. Bill's thinking. His guy versus, he doesn't know. It's tough. Let's take a break. I'll give you my answer after this. All right, let's talk about Gillette. I have had a beard for the last month, basically. And the only thing I don't miss about shaving is that I love shaving with Gillette because it was the first experience I'd ever had with shaving that my neck wasn't ravaged, that I didn't have to rub special shaving balm on my

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It all made sense that Gillette performance is the best. Get Gillette performance delivered to your door. Find Gillette 5 or whatever razor you want at GilletteOnDemand.com. Subscribe today. Jalen versus Brandon Ingram is a really good one. Jalen, the reps that he got the last two years, the playoff games that he was in, the kind of big game experience he got,

I really value. And I think that's like when we talked about Wayne Winston before. I don't think there's any way to put a statistical price on this person played 32 playoff games in two years and guarded all these type of guys and played in a game seven. He just looks like he's a more ready player too.

His body has filled out. Brandon Ingram's body may never fill out. He doesn't look like the type of guy who's going to be super big. Durant's body has never really filled out either. But Brandon Ingram, there's a world in that he becomes the number one option scoring wise on a contender. And I don't think that world exists for Jalen Brown as much as I like him.

Yeah. He doesn't have the actual ball handling and the playmaking and the scoring that Brandon Ingram has. I saw you on Twitter and I agreed with you, but at the same time disagreed with you where you were talking about. Those are my favorite tweets. Yeah. The Jalen,

the upside of Jalen and the two comparisons are Kawhi and Paul Georgeorge because if you look at the checkpoints that he hit the first two years yeah the models are paul george he's ahead of where paul george was after two years like just in by any category you want um more playoff reps his offensive stats are better his playoff stats are better his shooting's better any sort of evaluation you want to do, he's just ahead of him. And I think he might even be like six to nine months younger than Paul George was. Kawhi, he's also ahead of, except, as you pointed out. He's got no chance to ever sniff Kawhi's.

Well, that's the thing. Kawhi, by the end of year two, we knew we were looking at a Hall of Fame defensive player. Whether he makes the Hall of Fame, we didn't know. But it was like, that guy is a once in a generation defensive perimeter guy. Jalen Brown, I don't feel that way about. I think he has a chance to make an all defense team. And that's not a slight on Jalen Brown.

He's just not Kawhi Leonard. He could be one of the four best defensive players on the perimeter in the league someday. Maybe. But he's not going to be what Kawhi was. Kawhi we knew by the end of the 2013 playoffs. We were like, wow, that guy is the best person we've ever seen guard LeBron on paper. His hands are so big. His wingspan is ridiculous. His IQ in terms of where to be at the right time, anticipation, he just has it all in that sense.

So yeah, but I mean, that's not a slight on Jalen Brown. I don't know. I think it's a tough question, Ingram or Jalen Brown. I personally, I'm like always the project guy. Yeah, but I mean, that's not a slight on Jalen Brown. I don't know. I think it's a tough question, Ingram or Jalen Brown. I personally, I'm like always the project guy. Yeah, you like the Ingram upside more? I'm always a fan of upside. And even if it's never realized and maybe that's to my detriment. I would pick Jalen just because I have more experience with him.

And I was really impressed by how hard he worked on his game. Because I do feel like that is the secret trait that you need to be great. Of course. He finished his rookie years at the gym the next day. on his game because I do feel like that is the secret trait that you need to be great. Of course. He finished his rookie years at the gym the next day. He was in the practice facility.

Everybody's like, why are you here? He's like, I want to get better. He invited himself to summer league, went to summer league after his rookie year, which guys don't normally do. And he's just really obsessed with getting better. And I think that's the number one thing I would look for if I was a GM.

Yeah. It's hard to know going in what that will be like because people, of course, change, especially at that age. Yeah. Sometimes they get a contract and that changes, but yeah, he definitely has it. It's interesting. I don't know if Ingram has it or not. I've never read.

He might, he might not. I've just never read the piece about like, wow, Brandon Ingram is obsessed with getting better and he might be, I don't know. I'm biased because when I look at Brandon Ingram, I don't think, I don't know what it is. It's just like the way he carries himself. He looks a little sleepy. He plays low.

His posture is- Yeah, his posture. Even when he goes to the rim, he doesn't go to the rim like he's 6'11". He goes to the rim like he's 6'6", which is my least favorite thing about his game. But his arms are so long, he makes up for it anyway. Let's ask another question, if you don't mind.

Yeah. If you're LeBron and your goal is just to win a championship next year. Yeah. And we throw out the Warriors, of course. Where does he go? Well, you go to Boston. Boston. You go to Boston if you want to win a championship next year.

The thing is, though, that ship sailed because the only way to do it was to trade for him. Right. We already know that's not happening. I think Houston was a better fit for him. Than Boston? Yeah. Really? Yeah.

Let me ask. So if Houston played Boston, a fully healthy Boston versus Houston, so we're adding Gordon Hayward and we're adding Kyrie, do you think that Boston would beat Houston last year? Houston won 65 games in the West. So I would say yes, just because the Celtics have always played Houston really well and they've never really had a full team for whatever reason.

But you're looking at- I just remember all the Celtics-Houston games. I just feel like they matched up great with them for some reason. Yeah, that's- Because a lot of what Houston did during this season was a little gimmicky. No, it was not gimmicky. No, but I mean, the smart defensive teams could shut them down. How about...

It is true. No, look, there's a regular season component. All that ISO shit and Harden, the Celtics could guard that stuff. That's not gimmicky. All right, so gimmicky is the wrong word. So you're going to think that... First of all, the beauty of isolation is you're not isolating just with the trial spree. That's not gimmicky. So gimmicky is the wrong word. So you're going to think that, first of all, the beauty of isolation is you're not isolating

just with the trail. Here we go. This is where your church of isolation. No, but it is. You need the spacing, which they had. But the Celtics were really good at chasing down three-point shooters

that were open. They were probably the best team in the league at it. How would the Celtics score against Houston? What do you mean? Houston was a fucking great defensive team. With Kyrie and Hayward and all those guys?

Come on. Oh, they held the greatest basketball team with Curry, Klay Thompson, Kevin Durant to like 78 points, 80 points, 90 points a game. And you think somehow the Celtics are going to score a bunch of points against them? I never felt like Curry was 100% healthy in that series. That's bullshit. All that stuff is bullshit think, I never felt like Curry was 100% healthy in that series.

That's bullshit. All that stuff is bullshit. I just never, I never felt like he was Curry. Yeah, you know why? Because they defended him every time and they bumped him and they held him and they pushed him and they hand checked him

and they played great defense. And he wasn't able to get free. It wasn't because he wasn't healthy. Did he look healthy in game seven when he went off? I just never felt like he was right. Well, I don't think that that's true. I think that they played a team that had a great fucking defensive system. I still don't feel like he was right. You i don't think that that's true i think that they played a team that had a great fucking defensive system i still don't feel like he was right you're not

gonna change my mind okay let's move i didn't i didn't no i i'm with you on the houston defense because i did not think they could get to the championship you could go to the team that took golden state to seven games and had to shoot over 27 27 27 in a row, missed three pointers to lose game seven and not even lose by a lot. They missed 27, three pointers in a row and lost. But that's not why they lost game seven. Why did they lose game seven? Because Chris Paul couldn't make it through the series without getting hurt. Okay. But that's the other thing. They didn't even have their second best player and they still went seven games, leading game six, leading game seven. Now you add LeBron James. It's done. It's over.

If LeBron James wants to win a championship, he goes to the Houston Rockets. Why didn't they have Chris Paul for game six and game seven? Because he played too many minutes. Is that what we're going to say? Or because he's just not durable? Because he played too many minutes. Because the only way they can compete with the Warriors

and go up 3-2 in that series was to play him way too many minutes for what he was doing. He played like, I think he played like 85 minutes in game four and game five and at the tail end of game five got hurt. I don't think it was an accident. I mean, he's in his 13 year, he's 5'11 and he's

got a lot of miles. But that's besides the point. That's besides the point. It's not besides the point. No, the point is that, would he have to play that many minutes with LeBron James on the team next year? Would he have to play those many minutes? I don't think he should play more than 32 minutes. I agree with you.

But the question is, would he have to play those many minutes if LeBron James was on the team? No. Not next year. We're talking about next year. What team LeBron will go to to guarantee a championship?

I think that's his best chance. I would say Boston and Houston would be 1A, 1B. Okay. I mean, I don't think Boston's that great, to be honest. I think that... Really? With Kyrie and Hayward?

I mean, yeah. And Jalen and Tatum and Horford and Smart and Rogier. That's like the deepest team in the league. Deepest rotation in the league. Who lost to a team that got sweeped by Golden State and never had a chance.

But we're never top two guys. Yeah, but We had Terry Rozier and Crunch Time. I get that. He's a fourth guard. I think you're overestimating how difficult it is

to have all of those great off like you're adding Kyrie and you're adding Gordon Hayward. Kyrie's not a good defender. Marcus Smart is a good defender. So now you're taking away minutes from Marcus Smart

to give to Kyrie. Rozier isn't a great defender. But Marcus Smart is an F minus offensive player for most of the time. Yeah, of course. Well, I mean, you're discounting his offensive rebounding, which is key.

Right. Kyrie does not do that. Kyrie will get you. There's just only one basketball. I'm not discounting his 27% shooting. No, you're definitely not discounting. As well, you shouldn't. I just don't think Boston is as good

as their coach and the conference shows. I mean, that conference was a joke last year. The fact that they went to seven games. Well, wait a second. Are we talking about adding LeBron to next year's Celtics team or the teams we just watched? No, we're talking about the real world. LeBron can go anywhere he wants to go. Where should he go to win the championship?

The Tatum has to be factored in then. But are we sure that Tatum is going to continue to get better? We're sure from NBA history tells us that he should make a huge leap this season. A huge leap? Yeah. A huge leap. A huge leap. All right. We're going to come back in a year and we're going to see how big that leap is.

But the history of the league says year one, year two, if you hit certain checkpoints in year one and you get better as the year goes along. Like Tyreek Evans? You get playoff reps. No, Tyreek Evans was- Tyreek Evans, look at Tyreek Evans. But he was putting up stats on a shit team. But he wasn't just putting up stats. They were a 20-win team. I understand, but he was doing everything.

And our model actually had Tyreek Evans as close to one of the best rookie seasons ever. I'm just saying there are exceptions to players who play good as rookies who don't always progress. I'm not saying Jason Tatum is, I'm not saying that at all. Jason Tatum is a great, probably a great player. But the play good as rookies thing. Is a great player.

The play good as rookies thing, I think you got to extend it for this because he actually was better in the playoffs than he was in the regular season. But how much of that can you say is preparation for the opponent, coaching, and knowing exactly, did he do a lot of dumb things? No.

Why? Because he's coached very well. I think he got way better defensively as the year got along. I think he got better at picking his spots. And the irony of him in the playoffs is he didn't even shoot that well from three. He was a better three-point shooter in the regular season. He was the best. He was like 31% from three in the playoffs.

Do you know that he is the best corner three-point shooter in the history of the NBA on 50 shots? Really? Yeah. If you go by just corner three-point percentage, minimum 50 attempts, and not actually the history, but since my data goes back to 2000. Number one is Jason Tatum.

That's amazing. Yeah. Well, the way he can get better- So is he going to get better than that? Is he going to go to the best ever in history, or is he going to maybe regress from that best ever? No, I think his three-point shooting can get better. So is he going to get better than that? Is he going to go to like the best ever in history? Or is he going to maybe regress from that best ever streak? No, I think his three-point shooting can get better. He's not going to get better than the best in the history of the NBA.

No, in the playoffs it will. He's 31% in the playoffs. But I think the way he can get better is isoing him at the top. I went to Second Spectrum last week. And I was just so fascinated by the platform they have. And you have a lot of this stuff you just don't share with anyone. I don't have anything,. But I was like- I don't have anything.

But anyways, come on. But I was like, can you- Jason Tatum at the top of the key. I can't do that. Can you tell me how he did possession-wise, points per possession? Sort of like they queued up. They have every time he's ever been ISOed at the top.

Right. Which is what I wanted in the Cleveland series. Like, just put this dude at the top. He was 0.75 points per possession. It was bad. It's terrible. But you wanted it. No, but that's, so I was like,

oh, that's why they didn't do it. That's why they didn't do it in the playoffs. Right. But I think once he learns how to, once you can spread the floor for him and he can just beat guys off the dribble and throw the swing pass to the corner or go to the basket or whatever, That's the way he gets better. Here's what I learned in my 20

years of watching NBA basketball. I'm not saying it's true, but this is what I think is true. Players who perform well as rookies or do really, really well with good coaches are less likely to continue to improve because a lot of it is their coaches maximizing their potential in that way. Players who don't perform well. So I think Jalen would count for that. Like if you're talking about that, I think Jalen is the good example for that not Tatum. But has he really played that much? I mean, I don't, I mean, Jalen Brown had some moments this playoff speed.

He did, but I'm saying you could say if Jalen Brown was on the Sacramento Kings, maybe he's not 50% of what he did on the second. Yeah. I think, and look at Isaiah Thomas. The guy is literally unplayable. Right. Unplayable. The thing I judge Tatum by, and this is, I felt the same way about Durant,

and I think these guys are very rare. They're maybe a couple times a decade. It's just he could get to wherever he wanted offensively. Yeah. He's a special offensive player. I'm not discounting that in any way. I'm just saying that if you look at the fact

that he was the best three-point shooter in the history of the NBA from the corner and you think, okay, well, he's going to keep on getting better. Like he's not going to shoot 100%. No, but he's going to, he has like seven moves that I think as he, as his career advances,

he's got to pull up. He's got corner three. You don't need that many moves, by the way, to be effectively. He's got that drive toup. He's got corner three. You don't need that many moves, by the way, to be effectively effective. He's got that drive to the basket where he goes kind of that swoop to the left side. I just think he's going to be

relatively unstoppable. How many guys would you trade him for? A lot. You would trade him for a lot. Would you trade him for Kawhi? Are you out of your mind? So you're in the minority on this. Of course I would trade him for Kawhi. You would trade him for Kawhi Leonard. The point is, you don't have to trade him for Kawhi. Are you out of your mind? So you're in the minority on this. Of course I would trade him for Kawhi.

The point is you don't have to trade him for Kawhi. He makes $6 million and Kawhi is going to make like $30. It doesn't matter. There's a cap and you have to spend the money. They already have Horford. They have Hayward. They have Kyrie. And look, how old is Kyrie? I think

Kyrie is only 26. It's the leg injury is worrying me though. Horford is about, I think he's's only 26. It's the leg injury is worrying me though. Horford is about, I think he's 30. Okay. You have to look at your team and the age of your team. And what, like if you're the Celtics and you want to continue building, building, building, building, that's fine. Then maybe you don't make the deal.

But if your goal is to win right now, you have Horford who's older. You have Kyrie who's older. I mean, I don't even want to play for Boston anymore, by the way, after he's not, he's not like he's going to be there forever. We're not worried about that. I would be. Kyrie's fine. I would be. I don't even want to play for Boston anymore, by the way, after. He's not like he's going to be there forever. No, we're not worried about that. I would be. Kyrie's fine. I would be. I know he was on your podcast, but I would be. Was he going to go to the Knicks and play for James Dolan? Get the fuck out of here.

Come on. I mean, I'm just saying. I would be worried. The guy's doing movies and shit. I'm more worried about his legs than him leaving. He's had three different injuries to his legs over the course of his career, dating back to Dick. By the way, I wouldn't even really care if he left if I was a Celtics. I mean, I wouldn't want him

to leave, but it's not like he's... So the question is, if they re-sign Marcus Smart and they keep Brown, they don't do anything, and they know they have Brown coming free agent-wise and Tatum coming free agent-wise, and they have Horford and they want to make a run at Anthony Davis, is there a way they just let Kyrie leave?

Don't even resign? If you can get Anthony Davis, of course you do. Well, I think that's, I think the Anthony Davis is the big looming shadow overall. Like everybody's like, is your boss a trade for Corral? Anthony Davis is the most underrated player in the NBA by like a factor of 100.

I think they know that. Nobody knows. I mean, nobody talks about him. He's been like on ice. I think that's why you save the assets. Yeah. I don't know. It's interesting. It's interesting. So let's say Boogie leaves the Pelicans, which it seems like people think he's going to leave. Okay.

Now New Orleans comes back next year. Pretty much everyone in the West has gotten better. Yeah. And unless they can package their expirings for somebody like Kent Bazemore, which has been a rumor. Even that's not going to make a break. Well, but I mean, it's just really hard for them to get better. It's like, here's Kent Bazemore.

The NBA is very tough. You have a bunch of teams who are just out of the mix. So if New Orleans and Davis, let's say he gets hurt in November for 10 games and they're three and 13, he comes back. Now they're 12 and 20. I don't know. And he just goes I think I'm good

I think I'm ready to go to a good team though yeah could happen I think the Celtics want to be ready for that more than chasing

more than chasing Jalen Brown and they trade the Kings pick and now you have Kawhi and Kawhi might leave anyway in a year I mean if I could get Anthony Davis

and I knew I was going to get Anthony Davis or I could have Kawhi for one year and I knew I was going to get Anthony Davis, or I could have Kawhi for one year, and I knew I was only going to get him for one year for sure, I would obviously wait. And then you're waiting because now you're putting yourself in a great position where now the Warriors are in year

two, and they've got Draymond Green, Klay Thompson, both unrestricted free agents. They're not going to be able to keep both of them. And now the league is wide open. Now you have a really legit chance. By the way, I think it's wide open next year too.

I think next year there's teams that could like, you know, there's teams that could beat golden state next year. Well, that's why I going back to LeBron, the, if, if he's gone to the Lakers,

I do feel like it's like a, like a two or three year kind of plan, but he's old. No, but he's like, he's not year kind of plan. But he's old. He's not human, but he is human. How does he win the title next year in any situation other than Houston or

Boston? With the Lakers, if he gets Kawhi and PG, that team's winning. That's it. But that's a legit, that's not a pipe dream. That's something that people are trying to make happen. But I think he's looked at it and gone, if I stay in Cleveland. Do you think he's really looked at it though? Like, I don't, I mean.

I think he's looked at it as, if I stay in Cleveland, I have no chance of the Warriors. Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah. He's measuring himself against, here are the Warriors, the Rockets are right underneath them. But he needs to have some people, and I'm not saying this,

but he needs to have some people who can actually tell him what team, because every team's going to tell him and they're all bullshitting him because they're trying to sign him to the team. He needs someone impartial

to say like, this is where you should go. Here's like the data that can show, that can tell you how good this team will be with you. Are you interested

in seeing this? Because he's got a, you know, he's a great basketball mind. He's an amazing player. He's the best player that's ever played the game in my opinion.

But he's not a great, you know, he's not a great evaluator of talent, of what his, you know of who the good players are. That's an understatement. And I don't know that he has anyone in his camp that can really guide him in that direction.

We should pay JR 15 million a year. Oh, yeah, JR. I mean, some of it's Tristan Thompson. I think some of it's just getting his boys paid, which is admirable. But he does have an opportunity where he can actually pick a team that will give him the best chance of winning and also now he can balance that because he knows what the family life is going to be like he knows what the lifestyle is going to be like he knows what his life is going

to be like away from basketball but he maybe doesn't know is what is that team going to look like what type of pieces do we need to add and i think that's where he needs to a either go to a team that's smart enough to make the right decision for him or B, talk to someone who can help him in that way. You don't think Magic Johnson could be the maestro for this? I don't know.

It's possible. I don't know. I'm not meaning to disparage anyone. I'm just saying I don't know that Magic Johnson is that person. I certainly don't think Rob Palenka is that person just because Rob Palenka described contavious caldwell poke is or canada's caldwell pope excuse me his mana from heaven when they got him wasn't that the

thing like he thought that's pretty bad he also stabbed a blind guy in the back he did the calves owner remember the carlos boozer thing i mean that's that's just business bill i don't know i got him got them to opt out of his deal i don't know that he did i don't know was it him or was it boozer i don't know who i don't know it was both of them his his agency dropped rob polinka after that yeah i don't know anything about that i just know that if i'm looking if i'm lebron i'm looking at a team that's smart enough to tell me how i can win and why and i want to be able to say what is the basis of that not just you know pipe Actually, coming up, I'll tell

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All you have to do is go to clearme.com slash bill. All right. Sign up today before you travel. you sign up, put that in, go to the airport. It takes four minutes. You're done. They take your fingerprints, maybe a little face scan and you're just flying through. It's the best clear me.com slash bill free three month trial. Try clear for yourself. All right. So if we just say LeBron wants to win a title and that's his only motivation for next year. Yes. That's it. There's no other motivation at all. He should sign with Houston for the minimum. Well, I mean, the minimum is he's going to get, he wants to get

paid. So let's awake. Let's get away from that for a second. No, we can't get away because there's no other way for them to get him. He could have opted into the contract and did a sign and trade. That was possible. It was possible, but what am I getting from Cleveland

and why am I doing that? They could have got something. What? We know all the players on Houston. Who do you want if I'm the Cavs? Why do I want to take

Ryan Anderson back? That's insane. Well, you take something versus nothing. Well, you don't take something that's going to debilitate. I'd rather have nothing. Houston could stretch Ryan Anderson and they could- You'd have to renounce Capella.

That would be tough. You'd have to get CP3 and LeBron James to come to some sort of understanding to not. But that's not going to happen because those guys actually created the system. They were the part of the NBA and NBA Players Association board that made it so that these max deal. It's not happening. So yeah, it's probably not happening. I don't know. Or you'd have to trade like Eric Gordon

and two first round picks. And even then if I'm the Cavs, I'm like, why? How does this help us? Well, how does it help you if he leaves? Eric Gordon and two first round picks would actually be a nice haul. But even then that

you'd have to take another shitty salary with that just to make the contracts work. Yeah. Because LeBron was at 33 million.

Yeah. It's tough. So that's my point is like if he just wants to win a title and that's it. It doesn't have to be the minimum.

It could be something. Well, it could be that what's the mid-level like $9 million? I don't know. They might've been over the tax. They might not be eligible. Yeah. There's be like, what's the mid-level? Like $9 million? I don't know. They might've been over the tax.

They might not be eligible. Yeah, I'm not sure. There's like a 5 million, whatever. He could take 5 million one year. I'm just, I'm chasing a title this year. But I don't think he needs to do that. What do you think he needs to do? I think he's, I think,

I personally think he's probably looking at this like, I'm LeBron James. I'm a contender anywhere I go. I'll go to the Lakers. I'll figure it out. We'll contend there. That's a good thought, I'm LeBron James. I'm a contender anywhere I go. I'll go to the Lakers. I'll figure it out. We'll contend there. That's a good thought. He is LeBron James.

He's like, I just brought this shitty Cavs team to the finals. That's different though. They beat a weak conference. He wasn't taking that team to the finals in the Western Conference. He's not thinking about it that way.

He's thinking, I'm LeBron James. I just got to the finals last year with J.R. Smith. He needs someone in his camp. He has nobody in his camp. He's LeBron James. I'm just saying what he needs. I'm not saying what he has. I'm saying what he needs. If he had someone in his camp last has nobody in his camp I'm just saying what he needs I'm not saying what he has

I'm saying what he needs if he had someone in his camp last year they would have been like you have to fix this Kyrie thing you have no chance of winning a title unless you have a second scorer well they had no chance of winning a title with Kyrie anyways it's irrelevant they weren't going to beat that team they got blown out the year before they got blown out the year before four games to one

Kyrie scored 15 they managed to win one game I don't feel like that series was a blowout Zach Lowen is on my corner with this Are you sure? They got blown out the year before. Four games to one. Kyrie scored 15. They managed to win one game. I don't feel like that series was a blowout. Zach Lowe is on my corner with this. I mean, I said that that, no. Well, Zach Lowe said that the Cleveland Cavaliers were one of the best offensive. The top five playoff offensive teams. And I agree with that.

I said the same thing either right before or after or whatever. But they blew out game four. They blew game three. That series easily could have been 2-2 going into game five. They just had no chance of winning. There just wasn't. They could have gone a seven against a historically good team. That means you're a good finals team. Yeah.

I mean, I just look at it like, were you going to win? No. I felt Houston could win. That's the only time I felt a team could actually beat Golden State. How much of that was just catching Golden State at the perfect time? None of it. Because I think you make the same argument for Cleveland if you just kept everyone together that next year,

Golden State has the attrition of four straight finals. No, it's not that. It wasn't that. Look. What do you mean it wasn't that? Golden State wasn't the same team they were in 17. 17 team was better and more focused and everything. 18 team was like limping to the finish line, basically.

I don't know. Yeah, maybe, but I just don't think, I just think that everyone is discounting how good Houston played and how good Houston was this year. I agree with that. Everyone's just thinking, oh, they got lucky. They did this, they did that. They held that team to a ridiculous number.

They forced them into isolation basketball. They took away all their off-ball action. Talk to the Golden State coaching staff. Yeah, no, they did. They were impressed. They had a great system. They all bought into the system. The only thing that they didn't do right

in some ways, which is just they just didn't have the depth or they didn't trust their depth or they weren't able to play it because they fell apart in the fourth quarter of every game. But I think that's, to me, that matters. or they didn't trust their depth or they weren't able to play it because they fell apart in the fourth quarter of every game. But I think that's,

to me, that matters. That was the flaw of that team that they had to rely on big minutes from Chris Paul. Right. And that they basically- Yeah, of course, but that still was their best chance to win. They basically had to play seven guys

in every other night's situations for 10 days. They could have played. They could have played. They had a lot of bad luck too. Mbamute got injured, couldn't shoot anymore. That's what really you know. Missing his

25 minutes a game hurt. Anyways, this is a free agency podcast, whatever. We've only dealt with one player. We've dealt with LeBron the entire time. No, but I think this is a really important conversation because it's like how close was Houston last

year and how close was Cleveland two years ago and how does that affect how LeBron sees the finals right now yeah well Houston was infinitely closer than Cleveland ever was two years ago Cleveland two years ago did not have a chance to win but were they infinitely closer barring an injury I would say part of why they were infinitely closer was because a, they had home court. B, the 18 Warriors were not as good as the 17 Warriors. Why did they have home court? They won 65 games.

That's a good fucking game. Yeah, I'm with you for part of it. But I do think the 18 Warriors were not as good. And I think their chemistry was a little weird and it was just easier to kind of catch them last year potentially. Yeah, I just disagree. The ceiling of the last year potentially. Yeah, I just disagree. The ceiling of the teams were pretty similar though.

I just disagree. They had more pieces this year than they did the previous year. Who did? Golden State. They had like Jordan Bell. They had- Iggy. When did Iggy get hurt?

Well, that was the other thing that was beneficial for Houston because if Iggy was healthy, Houston wasn't going to beat Golden State with a healthy Iguodala. Because Iguodala really put the clamps on Harden. Yeah. Houston benefited from that a lot. That was huge. Should Houston be worried that a lot of different smart teams with good defenders

were able to slow down Harden the way they were able to slow him down? I think you should be worried if the team has one of the best defensive players of all time and Andre Iguodala. But Boston slowed him down to the two times they played. No, this is regular season. I hate your dismissiveness of Boston.

Because this is the difference between the regular season. Marcus Smart owns James Harden. I'm saying that right now. Okay. There's a difference between the regular season and the playoffs. And also Andre Iguodala is not a good defender. He's a great defender. He's a great defender. He's the defender underneath Kawhi Leonard in terms of the best perimeter defender

in the NBA. So it doesn't worry me that the second best defensive player in the NBA shut down. You think he's the second best defensive player? Second best wing defender in the NBA against- You put him ahead of Paul George? Yeah, not close. Pre-injury Paul George? Not close. Interesting.

Yeah, not close. He's smarter in the sense that he works hard. I talked to Andre Iguodala about how he defends. I watched this great thing. Someone recommended it to me on Twitter and I watched. I've never really been a Scottie Pippen fan, not because I don't like him. I just didn't know anything about him.

I didn't know. I don't want to watch ESPN or whatever. I didn't know anything about him. And I watched this thing that Iguodala, I recommend anyone to watch, that Iguodala, I recommend anyone to watch it. Iguodala did with Pippen in terms of how he defends and what his process was. And it was brilliant.

Both of them were brilliant. And when you see that and you see like the craft, there's this guy, this is a craftsman. This defensive style is he's a craftsman. He's learning his craft. I'm not saying Paul George doesn't do that. I'm just saying when I watch Paul George play defense, I don't see that. I don't see him I watch Paul George play defense, I don't see that.

I don't see him forcing players in the wrong direction, trusting his help. I don't see him stripping the ball as often. Like Paul George is a great defensive player. He's, but he's not as good as Andre Iguodala is. I've thought personally, I remember when I first worked for an NBA team in 2010,

that was a guy I said they had to get. Yeah. He was playing for Philadelphia. He was on like a, like a ridiculously high contract. I was like, this is the player that will improve your team by 15 wins. I thought

Pippen was the best perimeter defensive player I ever saw. Probably, yeah. I wasn't that into basketball in 96. I started around 2000. He was the first guy I ever watched in person who was like, oh my god. I'd actually be terrified if I was dropping the ball against this guy. I mean, he has all the tools.

He was just the perfect defender. Yeah. Kawhi came in, I would say, somewhere around 2014, was the first guy I'd seen who rose to that Pippen level. I think those are the two best I've seen.

Yeah. Rodman had some moments. Rodman's ability to guard basically anybody was really- Rodman was like- I'm saying Detroit Rodman. Yeah. Rodman wasn't a perimeter wing defender. I'm just talking about's different though Rodman was like I'm saying Detroit Rodman yeah but Rodman wasn't a perimeter wing

I'm just talking about perimeter wing defenders yeah but I'm saying he had the ability to kind of go to a level he couldn't do it consistently but

he was the only guy I ever saw who could actually defend Bird like even Pippen totally couldn't defend Bird what about Ben Wallace people sleep on his

defensive ability that guy was ridiculous if we had the playoff I tried to figure this out recently because I was going to write a column about it, then I didn't, about how dumb the finals MVP is and how it should be a playoffs MVP instead. Yeah. Ben Wallace was the playoff MVP in 2004.

If you did an MVP for the entire postseason, he wins. That team was so good defensively with him and Tayshaun and Rashid and Billups. How much money did you make that year on that team? Actually, this is 2004. I actually went into the series thinking that I discounted Detroit. I mean, Detroit went to seven against the Pacers. I did too.

I got rope-a-doped by their Eastern Conference competition. But after game two, I was all in on the Pistons the next three games. Me too. Yeah. They made it. It was so hard for the Lakers to score. The Lakers just never drew any fouls, never got any loose balls, never ran a good offensive set.

They had Shaq one-on-one, and if that didn't work, they had nothing else. And they had Slava Medvedenko and Luke Walton trying to play the four because Malone got hurt. I mean, that was the most lopsided series in terms of the actual odds versus the result that I can remember for a finals ever. It's funny. I'm really thinking about where,

I think I might've overreacted with Kobe where he was on my all-time list a little bit. He really struggled in some playoff series. 04 Pistons, 08 Celtics, even the 2010 Celtics series. What did he shoot in game seven of the 2000s? He was six for 24 in 2010. He's really looked bad in certain series. Like even the 90s stuff

before he kind of blossomed. He's very up and down, but that Piston series was the worst he ever looked. He was, they just completely throttled him. They turned him into like this hero ball jump shooter.

That was the year of like his personal. He had a lot of, he had the trial going on too. Yeah, it wasn't like a lot of, he was accused of rape or whatever, right? That was the year? Yes. Okay okay do you think uh by the way who that guy i mean i don't know what

happened but if anyone has been able to rehabilitate their public image more than him i don't know who it is it started like about five six years ago with the social media stuff. What's funny is like- It's amazing. He's repositioned himself as kind of this expert on leadership. It's amazing. And by all accounts was one of the worst teammates you ever could have had for most of his career. I mean, I've said some of this stuff on Twitter. I don't know. I don't know Kobe.

I don't know anything about him. You know, I used to think he was a great player when I was younger. I still think he was a good player, whatever. But like, I don't even, I'm not even commenting on that. I just think just from the fact of what happened and how it was resolved to where he is now, I don't think there's anyone,

someone else can maybe let us know if they can think of some other person in history, not just sports, but history, that's been able to rehabilitate his image more. Well, really- And skate by more than- The thing that galvanized him in the mid 2000s when it really could have gone south

was he became a little bit of a pariah in the Laker fans and the Kobe fans. Sure. It almost made them like him more. Yeah. It was like us against them. Us versus everybody, yeah. And then that 2006 season.

And then it spun when he got power. I didn't have a vote yet, but my unofficial vote was for him for MVP in 2006. Yeah. It was the only time I've really fully embraced hero ball. I just thought he was amazing that year. He was, there was a year that there was the year where the year that he scored 80.

That was it. That was the eighties. That stretch, that stretch was, he didn't just have 80. He had like 50 through three quarters versus the Mavericks. That was the better scoring game. It was,

that was the most amazing thing I'd ever, I'd ever seen from a player in terms of scoring. Yeah. But yeah. All right. I think I wrote an ESPN Magazine column after that game about how I was upset that he didn't go for like 90. I was upset that Jackson pulled him out.

The team wasn't going anywhere. I hate that sort of stuff. There was another situation this past year where a player had a bunch of points. Every year. Every year it happens once. Somebody's got like- Who was the one this year? Clay Thompson, I think, had like 60, right? It was a coach with a bow tie. Every year it happens once. Somebody's got like, Clay Thompson I think had like 60, right? It was a coach with a bow tie.

Who was it this year? I was just like, Coach with a bow tie? Yeah, I was like, this guy with his bow tie wearing guy won't let his player score points. What is this? Who was it?

The team's not going anywhere. I'm trying to remember who it was. Someone will tell me. We haven't talked on a pod there. You always worry that there's not going to be enough good coaches to potentially gamble against if you decide to gamble. And every year they find some bad ones. Yeah. Your boy, Becker staff got a job. He's the best. There's

some good ones. All the coaches are great. I don't have a bad thing about any NBA coach anymore. They're all great. It's a tough job. They're all doing the best they can. Oh my God. But who's the coach who, who, who didn't, I wish I could remember this bad podcast. I'm sorry. I remember something, but I don't remember. Maybe someone will tell me later. One last theory on LeBron and the Lakers. And by the way, if he has Kawhi and Paul George, they are absolutely a contender and could go toe-to-toe with the Warriors. It's done

if they have those guys. I do feel like I do feel like there's one more year where the Warriors. Terry's thoughts. Terry's thoughts. Yeah. Oh, Dean Lillard? I think it might have been McCollum. You're right. It was McCollum. He had like 50 and three quarters. Yeah, that's what it was. Sorry, I interrupted your chain of thought. It just came up.

Terry Stotts. And he was wearing a bow tie. And I was like, why is this bow tie wearing motherfucker taking this guy out of the game? His team's not going anywhere. Let's see something exciting happen. Let him score 70. God forbid. I remember there was one Carmelo year where he could have had like 75 and they took him out when he got to like the MSG record.

It was like nine minutes left. Could you imagine Carmelo's thoughts about himself had he scored 75 or 80 points? I still defend Carmelo. He's the best. So the Warriors, I think, have one more year where they're clearly the favorite unless they have some sort of injury or something. Right. But LeBron, Kawhi, Paul George. Or LeBron, James Harden, CP3. Very tough. If they can figure out how to keep Lonzo, if they can get Kawhi somehow without giving up Lonzo, and then that would allow them to do Lonzo and Luau Dang.

And take one more contract back. Like, let's say Atlanta is like, yeah, we'll give you Schroeder for Lonzo. Why do you want Schroeder? Well, I'm just saying like any sort of competent person to also dump the Dang contract. Oh, you want to dump the Dang contract. Or you do like a three-teamer with Schroeder and they get Bledsoe for a year. You know, LeBron loves Bledsoe. Yeah, but Bledsoe is not the guy you want if you want to win a playoffs series. I can vouch for that.

I can vouch for that because he was the key to the Celtics beat of the Bucks. 100%. But my point is like if they can use Lonzo now, if they keep him to get rid of the Dan contract and get some sort of either an asset back or an expiring or whatever, I think that would be the last piece of that.

I personally would keep Lonzo if I were them. I think he can play off the ball. I think what makes him cool is that he's just a basketball player. He grabs rebounds. He throws it ahead. He doesn't really have the ball that much. He's not like a ball dominant dribble for 20 seconds guy. He's a hot potato offensive player.

In the half court, he does restrict your spacing. I mean, he's not as bad as Rondo was when he was younger, so maybe it's not that bad. I just think there's better point guard fits because they're not really point guards. They're just scoring guards. So give me a couple. Spencer Denwiddie?

He dribbles too much. He's a clock eater. How about Kemba? Yeah, Kemba. I mean, Kemba's great. Kemba's the greatest. So Lonzo and Luau Dang for Kemba and something else. That would work.

I like that. Coming up, we're going to go through the free agents right after this. Hey, finding a dress shirt that fits is nearly impossible. Something is always off. It might be the collar, the sleeves, whatever. Thankfully, ordering a custom fit shirt has never been easier with ProperCloth. ProperCloth.com, you can easily create a custom shirt size in seconds by answering 10 simple questions. Choose from over 20 collar styles, 10 cuff styles, 500 fabric styles, from classic to business to casual to completely

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Go to propercloth.com slash BS today. Guess what? Enter gift code BS and you save $20 off your first shirt. Just do it. Proper Cloth. I'm going to throw some names at you. You just tell me what you think. Boogie Cousins coming off an Achilles.

I can't think of anything that excites me more than attaching my max contract to Boogie Cousins. What's the most you would do? I don't know. I wouldn't want to be the team that takes a big chance on Boogie Cousins just because I feel like I'm not convinced

that the attitude adjustment is there, that the maturity is there. I don't know. I'm not convinced. So I wouldn't, and then you have the injury situation as well. And then you have the idea that the team actually played quite well

when he was gone. Not that that's his fault, but maybe it's tough. I'm in the camp. They might've actually been better if they had done the Meritage trade and then had Boogie. but maybe it's tough. I'm in the camp. They might've actually been better if he, if they had done the Meritage trade and then had boogie. Maybe if they used him in a way where he wasn't staggered all three.

Yeah. It's tough though, because he, because 80 clearly benefited from not having boogie have so many touches forced them to play center. Yeah, it did. The reality is Anthony Davis,

if you're listening and there's no way you are, he might be listening. If you're listening for some reason. Yeah, it did. The reality is, Anthony Davis, if you're listening, and there's no way you are. He might be listening. If you're listening for some reason, I hate to break it to you, but you're a five. You just are. If you want to win a title, it has to be you playing the five. With the Boston Celtics. Well, with whoever. With any team. You're a five.

The biggest advantage any team would have in the league right now is Anthony Davis as their five. Of course. And unlimited MRI minutes. I would do Boogie for $40 million for two years, but the second year. Player option, team option. Team option, unless he triggers it by playing 60 games in the first year or something like that. I would just protect myself multiple ways for that second year.

So if he only comes back for 40 games in the first season, doesn't look good. But I still think he's only like 28. He is only 28 and he's got some growth. My fear is I do not like that injury. My fear is i do not like that injury my fear is the injury my fear is that um the officials don't like him for good reason because and he's he's definitely a little cancery and he knows the officials don't like him and he has a complex that says it's me against the world

and i'm not getting a fair shake and i think that that's something in life that is very difficult to overcome so here's my counter. You got a counter? Yeah. You're countering your own proposal? Well, I'm countering one thing about, this is something I've said before and I think it's a really important point. And it's one of my favorite Bill Simmons points.

I'm third person-ing myself here. Okay. I don't mind taking a chance on head cases when they hit their late 20s because NBA history says the quote unquote head cases, as they get older, they mature out of it a little bit. I think Rashid's a good example. Spoken by someone who's probably had a great relationship with his lady partner his whole life.

You've never experienced the side of- You act like I wasn't a head case until my late twenties. Hey, I don't know. I don't know much about your personal life, but it seems like based on what I've known, the little I know about you, we spent some time together. It seems like you got that part of your life figured out. And I think that some people just don't mature.

Well, but I'm judging it by Rasheed Wallace. Rasheed Wallace. Latrell Sprewell. But those guys were on contending teams though. Latrell Sprewell never really matured. Latrell Sprewell spent his last dollar on a yacht. Okay. In Milwaukee. In Milwaukee. And

Rasheed Wallace tried to break into the referee's office after game seven. Won a title with him. He was available for nothing. Right around the same age as Cousins. Yeah, I'm not, and look, but I've listened, I've since listened to Rasheed Wallace on I forget, I forget if he has a podcast or he was on, he was on Bomani Jones's podcast.

And it seems like he's got the shit figured out now. And maybe he did at some point, but 28, I don't think so. I think the hotheaded, the world's against me stuff as you hit your late 20s tends to kind of soften a little. Not if you get whistled for a lot of fouls because people don't generally like you. Well, the bigger question is in this day and age, defensively, can Boogie Cousins be a center on a team that doesn't have Anthony Davis next to

him? Yes, he can. Because if there's all these stretchy teams that are playing like PJ Tucker at the five, Draymond Green at the five. He's destroying them. The Marcus Cousins is a problem for that. And I think that that's something that he should be proud of. And that's something that he should really focus on and realize like, look, I have a place in this league. Is the league ready for me? Not am I ready for this? He's one of the few guys that plays center where you can actually say that about.

Embiid? Embiid's tough, but Embiid's also a walking turnover at times. He's not a great passer. He's not in shape. Maybe he's not in shape. That may be. Yeah, he's not in shape. He's exhausted at the end of's not in shape. Yeah, he's not in shape. He's exhausted at the end of every playoff game. Well, it's hard to carry on that body for a long time, especially when you're sucking down

You better be in great shape, Joel Embiid. Sucking down Shirley Temples at halftime. Yeah, get in shape, Joel. So, DeMarcus doesn't have those problems, but he has another set of problems which might be tough for him to overcome. And I hope he does because I like DeMarcus Cousins. He's got a great nickname, Boogie. It's a great nickname. I really enjoyed it. The whole toolbox. I even a great nickname, Boogie. It's a great nickname. I really enjoyed-

I even, I think, was on the pod the week before kind of throwing them out as a possible, like do some damage playoff team, not to beat the Warriors, but they were having a moment with Cousins and Davis together where they were really kind of wrecking teams and then he got hurt.

But I was a believer. It's possible. So let me throw this at you. Okay. LeBron, Kawhi, Paul George, and then they somehow convinced Boogie to come on like a make good deal for one year with like a wink wink.

Is that even possible? I think it's possible, yeah. They clear out the entire cap. That's a great team. That team probably beats Golden State. Wow. I mean, look, I don't think people realize LeBron and Kawhi alone.

Is fucking crazy. It's absurd. That's, but that's, this goes back to what we talked about at the beginning. I'm in whatever it takes mode with Kawhi because I know I have LeBron if I get Kawhi. And once I have those two, I'm any semi-competent GM can figure out

how to put together a team around those two guys. That is a ridiculous combination it is Kawhi was the second best player in the league a year ago and the only question

on him is the health yeah I'm not even that worried about that anymore it's just more it's more his head space no I would be worried

about the health that weird calf thing no it's not a calf it's a or the knee hamstring knee whatever it is it No, it's not a calf. It's a hamstring knee, whatever it is. He's got a degenerative. It's possible that he could have a degenerative condition there.

That's something that doesn't heal. Well, that would concern me. Yeah. There's a lot of concern about his health. There's a lot of concern about his health. It's either his health or he's just like, I mean, the fact that he, you know, didn't trust the team, had to go see different doctors. It's just a bad, it's like, you know what it is? It's a bad breakup.

In the Spurs and him, it's a bad breakup. And both parties have to- Two stubborn parties. They just, well, they just have to like be mature enough to say like, okay, this is over. If you're the Spurs, you have to say like, this is over. This person doesn't want me anymore. Yeah. Let's make up, let's do the best we can to move on from this

and not be petty, which is tough. It does seem like from what I've heard, they shopped around for the doctor opinion they wanted to hear, the Kawhi side. I think he went to see like seven or eight doctors before they got the doctor that told them what they wanted to hear, which was they wanted him to sit out for the whole season.

Yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure. I don't know anything about season. Yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure. I don't know anything about that. Yeah, I'm not on the streets. Does Isaiah Thomas make more than $5 million next year? Next. I don't know. I don't, sorry.

When you're $5 billion? Sure. I don't know. You wouldn't do it? Flyer? Knicks? I would if I wanted to. I mean, the Knicks would be fun.

Sure, why not? He's got the heart of it, of like to be able to play that he can with his size and his stack, like his diminutive stature to be able to,

and his inability to defend is remarkable, but he's not a needle mover. We're here to talk about needle movers. What about Orlando? Sure. Okay. Wherever.

Yeah, I don't know. It would be fun to put him on a team where he could score a lot is what Ivers. What about Orlando? Sure. Okay. Wherever. Yeah, I don't know. It would be fun to put him on a team where he could score a lot, is what I mean. Rudy Gay? Rudy Gay. I feel like this is, I mean, Rudy Gay was a terrible basketball player

once upon a time. Yeah. And he's reworked his game. He's gotten smarter. He's gonna become a better passer. I feel like Rudy Gay could be a complimentary piece on a very good team now. What's interesting about this year is the mid-level

has now risen to $9 million basically for the first year. Sign me up. So you can get, conceivably, you can get, if you like Trevor Ariza, Rudy Gay, whoever. You can do $40 million for four years basically, which seems like just really high for the mid-level. would never pay you would never pay a reason for four years he's too old it's like 33 isn't he how many times have we seen a team remember the celtics lost james posey one year because new orleans decided to give him a five-year contract that might happen

i don't think i think teams are are smarter now in some ways maybe there's like you know there isn't i hope you're wrong because like, you know, there isn't. I hope you're wrong because my job is a lot less fun. It's not that they're smarter, Bill. It's that they realize that we're probably not going to win. League isn't as wide open. Golden State's too good. So teams are more patient and that's what forced them to be smarter.

I think that's probably part of it. Maybe. I don't know. I think there's a lot of GMs that still don't want to think of, they don't care what happens three years from now. Cause they might not be there anyway. Yeah. And it's like,

I have a chance to get Rudy gay and I want to be good. And what do I, I'm going to be fired three years anyway. It's the, it's the Rob Hennigan, Serge Ibaka trade. Yeah. Well,

I'll be sure we'll put all the, we'll do it. Yeah. The, the, the good thing about the league and the bad thing about the league is now is there's a lot more like finance guys owning teams. Yeah.

And I feel like that's made the league smarter as well. Like, like the Sixers owners would never sign Andrew Wiggins to that contract provided they could talk

to him first, right? Like that owner, it's like an old guard owner decided he wanted to sign Andrew Wiggins to that contract, but he wanted to have a face-to-face with him first to make sure he was worth it.

Not let him play out the year. Super important. Not let-face with him first to make sure he was worth it. Yeah. Not let him play out the year. Super important. Not let him play out the year to see if he actually performed well. No, I just want to have a hard, you know, and so like that contract is a terrible contract. And I feel like there's less teams with owners that will make those types of contracts.

Zach made a good point on his podcast on Tuesday. Shout out to Zach. I miss Zach. I miss Zach too. Yeah. He was saying, Minnesota is going to get slaughtered by the tax this year. Okay.

But a year from now, because they're going to have to give towns an extension at some point. They have Wiggins. They got a year left with Butler. But at some point, if they want to keep Butler, it's going to be impossible to keep everybody. But next summer,

a lot of these teams are going to have cap space because a lot of, a lot of the payrolls are clearing off and they're, everybody's like, summer, a lot of these teams are going to have cap space because a lot of the payrolls are clearing off and everybody's like, yeah, summer of 19. You're not even that great though

as far as I'm concerned. A, it's not that great, but they can talk themselves into it. There's not going to be that many free

agents. There's going to be all these teams with cap space and that's when Minnesota starts calling around. Hey, Andrew Wiggins, what do you think?

And somebody's going to bite. They're going to be able to dump that contract. I bet that's an undumpable contract. Oh, I completely disagree. You're going to have to give away picks. You're going to have to do something. I completely disagree. Sounds like we got the makings of the bet. Let's bet on that one. There's no way. Somebody will be dumb enough to trade for that. It's going to happen. It's going to be, and it'll be an Eastern Conference team. It'll be somebody with cap space who'll be like, hey, he's only 23 years old or 24.

Man. And he's the fourth option. He just needs to be in a better situation. Somebody will talk themselves into that 100%. That would really make me sad. Wiggins is a tough one because he was awful last year for what his talent is. But I also think he was in a bad situation. It doesn't matter.

He's a player who doesn't do anything other than every once in a while make a really exciting play. He doesn't rebound, doesn't assist, doesn't let a play off the ball, he doesn't defend, he doesn't rebound at all. He's an incredible athlete and somebody else will talk to him.

He's not even an incredible athlete so much as he's just an explosive jumper and dunker. He's like a poor man's Vince Carter. So we need a better word than athlete? Because some athletes are really good at rebounding. They're really good at anticipating the ball and doing other things. Defending. He doesn't do any of that. All he does is he gets the ball

every once in a while and makes a play that makes you jump out of your seat. Someone will talk themselves into him. Same for this current free agent, Jabari Parker. My favorite. We'll see. I don't know. someone will talk themselves into him okay same for same for this current free agent jabari parker my favorite um we'll see i don't know he would you sign him no of course not um doesn't seem like he can move side to side anymore yeah i i think that two acls is tough to acl the injury part is tough fact that he yeah i don't know i don't think he's done as far as being able to play but some of these players just have to get better they have to learn how to play basketball

better and sometimes it comes and sometimes it doesn't come i'm not sure he ever recovered from the fact that that was supposed to be his team and then the honest thing just blossomed out of nowhere and it just was never a great situation he had some moments by the way in the celtic series i know it was always at home though yeah always not at not on the road but yeah i still i don't it just was never a great situation. He had some moments, by the way, in the Celtics series. I know. It was interesting. Always at home though. Yeah, always at home. Not on the road.

But yeah, I still, I don't know. That's a worthwhile gamble for me if I'm a team like Brooklyn. I would rather do that than Andrew Wiggins. Even though Andrew Wiggins is a good Canadian kid. Well, he could be less money. Yeah, he's a good Canadian kid. But even like if the money was the same, I think that he's got more chance of being great than Andrew Wiggins. Zach Levine?

Restricted. I'm not impressed with Zach Levine. He's a good stats, bad team guy, it seems like. He could be like a Jamal Crawford type, maybe. He can't be a point guard. I've never liked Jamal Crawford. Jamal Crawford's game has grown on me in his 30 years. In year 18? You finally,

finally won you over. Yeah. That. And the fact that he like tweeted me at tweeted something mean to me on, on, on Twitter one day, like it's like, you don't watch the game,

bro. Watch the game. And I was like, well, actually I would just watch the game. And this is why I said what I said. He said that to you. Yeah.

It was pretty funny. It was like the first athlete who ever clapped back at me. I think I met him at the finals. I'd never talked to him. And I was like, how long have you been in the league? Like 12, 13 years is like 18. I'm like, Oh Jesus. I'd never talked to him. And I was like, how long have you been in the league? Like 12, 13 years? He's like 18.

I'm like, oh, Jesus. But he said he wants to go into front office. He doesn't want to do TV. I always thought he'd be a natural broadcast guy. And maybe you and I are both obsessed with TNT potentially replacing at least one or more of their color guys. They just need one. Can we just get one?

Yeah. One confident one? Yeah. But he's like, I want to be in a front office. Clint Capella. Love Clint Capella. Does it worry you

that he couldn't play in the Warriors series? Nope. Why not? I mean, it's not that he didn't play. It's that Golden State went super, super small. And he still defended well when he was out there. They still played well that he didn't play. It's that Golden State went super, super small.

And he still defended well when he was out there. They still played well when he was out there. I actually think he should have got more minutes. I thought he should have too. He's young. He was a force in the Utah series. He has gotten better every year. I don't believe the scuttlebutt that he's not a hard worker.

I don't know where I've heard that, but I don't believe that. If you're Dallas, why not offer him $25 million a year? I don't know. And make keys to match it. I don't believe the scuttlebutt that he's not a hard worker. I don't know where I've heard that, but I don't believe that. If you're Dallas, why not offer him $25 million a year? I don't know. And make Houston match it. I don't know. I don't know why teams don't try to wound each other competitively. I think that's a conversation that smart teams are probably having with themselves right now. Maybe they're thinking about that.

I'm not sure. I would rather do that and know I can always trade for DeAndre Jordan in mid-July. Yeah, I think the worry is that you tie up your cap space doing that and then he just has to match. Tie up for 72 hours or 96 hours. No, it's more than that. It's like four days. Yeah.

Maybe it's seven max. Then you're left with like picking up the scraps of what's left. You know you can trade for DeAndre Jordan whenever. Well, that's the thing. You should explore it. I would not be doing that. I don't like that deal either

just because I don't see what the point is. He's 30 years old. I honestly don't feel like he's the same athlete that he was. I think DeAndre Dorn's a fine basketball player. He's fine. Here's the thing. But he's going the wrong direction. Who are your best players on Dallas? Who are your most rebuildable prospects?

Dennis Smith Jr. and Luka Doncic. How old are those guys? Why not find someone who matches with them? I don't think they have any inclination whatsoever to rebuild. And which is why I think they should have traded Rick Carlisle last spring or summer. No, I really do. They should trade him to Toronto. Trade him, get like second round pick for him.

I don't think you trade. Start over. You don't trade coaches, Bill. Why? I don't know. He wants to contain. He clearly doesn't want to rebuild. Yeah.

And it's like alright you get Clint Capella you have Donchich who's gonna be I love him you do too you're actually

you're in the same Donchich camp I am I think you and I are the most vocal probably of anyone probably I love Donchich I think Donchich

is a once in a 10 year type of prospect in the draft it's like having white European James Harden.

Yep. This idea that he's not athletic to me. It's ridiculous. It doesn't. Yeah. I don't know. But I would

I would I would be building long-term. Capella makes so much more sense to me. If they could get if they could get Capella long-term I think that's a better

I think that they're not looking to sign DeAndre Jordan for a long contract. They're looking just to have him for a year. Just trade him take him off Clips Cat. Yeah.

Maybe, maybe, and maybe get an asset for doing that. That might not be so bad. And then look, you, you, you, you, you let your team, you know, you don't build a losing culture. You don't have their pick next year anyway. So it's not the worst thing to have to be good next year. Not to be great, but to be good. They're not going to be great.

Dallas doesn't have their pick next year? They traded it to get Doncic. Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Somebody else doesn't have their pick last year that made me go, oh. Next year. Oh, Cleveland. Yeah.

Cleveland lost their pick in the Kyle Korver trade to Atlanta. Atlanta has Cleveland's first round pick and it's unprotected. That's a disaster. Yeah. So you could potentially have a draft where the Celtics have the Kings pick and it's like third. And Atlanta has the Cleveland pick and it's like seven.

And I don't even know if LeBron doesn't go there. That's what I mean. That seven is like, are you kidding me? The pick is probably like, they'll be the worst team in the league. If LeBron doesn't, if LeBron leaves, and people, I like Collin Sexton, by the way, I think he has potential.

People are like, well, it'll be Colin Sexton's team now. It's like, that dude is not ready to have a team yet. What are you guys talking about? It's going to be Colin. Stop it. Colin Sexton and Jeff Green. And J.R. Smith. And J.R. Smith.

And George Hill. Good luck. But Atlanta has that pick, and that's a huge asset. So Atlanta could potentially have that Dallas pick and the Cleveland pick. I hated the Doncic for Trae Young trade. For Atlanta? Yes. You didn't like trading away

a once-in-a-decade offensive player for an extra pick? But we could be wrong. We don't know that... We're not wrong on Doncic. ...that Doncic is better than we think. So if their camp wasn't sure, and so they went the route of, let's just have as many pulls at the- I rarely go all in.

As you could. I rarely go all in on draft guys. Yeah. Carmelo for Darko was ludicrous to me. Yeah. Marvin Williams over Chris Paul was absolutely ludicrous. By the way, Darko's probably more valuable to a team right now than Carmelo.

Seriously. But there's- At least you're not gonna play Darko. Curry getting passed on twice seemed ludicrous when it happened. There's sometimes where you just kind of go,

that doesn't seem right. The only time I really kind of missed was when it was with high schoolers that I hadn't seen. Like, like Okafor,

Dwight Howard over Okafor to me, I was like, that's crazy. Okafor's really good. He, Okafor got hurt. Yeah.

But, but for the most part, you kind of... It's tough, though. But you can kind of tell when somebody has a chance to be great. You can tell. I'm speaking from my... Every time I think I've known, there's been times where I haven't. It's just tough. Look, predicting what an 18-year-old's going to turn out to be like seven, eight years

from now is very tough. Duran in college, it was clear that that guy had a chance to be a transcendent offensive player. Sure. He was a fucking freak. Yeah. I watched those Don Chichowits.

I watched a couple of those EuroLeague games. I was just like, there's no way that guy's not going to be successful. What he did in... People think, oh, it's the EuroLeague. Who cares? It's the EuroLeague. EuroLeague's good. Dude, the EuroLeague would crush any NCAA team.

Crush them. And would probably compete with, I would say, the bottom seven teams in the NBA. I mean, there's real players in the EuroLeague. They're men. They're older. They've played the game for a while. They play smart. The game is different, too. They have really good coaches. They have an atmosphere where it's like,

you know, you're playing in some random city and they're changing terrible things. They're throwing beers on the court. I don't know. I went to a game in Greece one time and they're changing terrible things. They're throwing beers on the court. And I don't know. I went to a game in Greece one time and, and, and they had to clear out the arena because people were throwing a live firecrackers and,

and then they started lighting shit on fire and throwing it on the, on the court. Yeah. That's, that's why you got to, I'd rather have that than like Ben Simmons at LSU. Aaron Gordon. Love Aaron Gordon. Only 22 LSU. Aaron Gordon. Love Aaron Gordon.

Only 22 years old. Very young. The thing about Aaron Gordon is, is yeah, I like Aaron Gordon. I think that Aaron Gordon was playing for a team that didn't necessarily have the most sophisticated offensive game plan. Yeah.

And was emphasizing post touches to his detriment, was playing him out of position for much of the year. So that's the key thing to me. He was never playing the right position. He might even be a five. He might be like Draymond. Yeah. I don't think he's got the defensive drive to be Draymond

and like the sheer lunacy you need to be, you need to have to play that. But he could throw in there. You could play some minutes at the five. He certainly would rather play more minutes at the five than the three. He's not a three. You know where I don't want to be? The three.

Yeah. It's ludicrous. You know what he reminds me a lot of? He reminds me of a better shooting Blake Griffin. Interesting. Because he can bring the ball up the court like Blake Griffin can. He's probably not as good a half-court passer as Blake Griffin was, but he's probably a better half-court passer than Blake Griffin was

at Blake Griffin's 22 years old. I have a news flash for you. He's the same age that Blake Griffin was at the, at Blake Griffin's at 22 years old. Maybe. I have a newsflash for you. He's the same age that Blake Griffin was during his actual rookie season after he missed his first rookie season. I think he is the hidden gem of this entire free agency thing. Okay. We're in agreement. And he's a restricted free agent.

They'll match though. Which means. They'll match. Good. Make a match. Here's, here's 75 million for three years. We're starting at 25. I would offer for him if I was a team that was looking to,

he would be a good fit for a team that had two young backcourt players. Can I throw a teammate in? In Doncic and- Oh, for Dallas. Dennis Smith Jr. So you would rather do that than Capella? I don't know. I wouldn't rather do anything. It's tough. It depends on, but that than Capella? I don't know. I wouldn't rather do anything. It's tough.

It depends on, but I like that only because I feel, I feel like I like Capella. I don't think they're going to be able to get either one of them. So I think it's moot, but I had another team. I think either one of them is fine. Let's hear your team.

I think somebody threw this out. It might've been Zach. My apologies, Zach, the Pacers. Yeah, he'd be good for the Pacers. Look, he'd be good for any team. What team wouldn't he be good on?

I think you put him on the Pacers. You put him with that crowd. How about the Raptors? He's got Oladipo. The Raptors are none of the Cavs. But how great would he be on that team? As an actual playing the four, and then you could play whoever you want to play at the five.

I would just go to him and be like, you're never playing the three for us yeah that's that's part one of my very exciting that's a young age and he's he had some moments last year where he took over games he took over games i've said this before but my number one move as a gm instead of having all these people like sending them on all these scouting trips and stuff, I would, my staff would be obsessed with who's in the wrong position. Who's, who's on the wrong team. Who's being used incorrectly. Who is an asset that, and I think we saw this last year and I missed it. And I'm really mad at myself. Oladipo and OKC, where it was just like, he became a declining asset just because of how

he was used in the team he was on now granted he got in better shape he didn't just get in great better shape he got in superior shape but he was also being used incorrectly and was in a situation I wrote about it during the Westbrook MVP thing where it was like alright

Victor here's your one possession then I'm going to take the next seven like that's a terrible basketball situation. Yeah. So the question is you go into these summers and it's like, who's being used wrong? Aaron Gordon to me is the number one guy who was just used badly for his entire career. Yeah. It's tough to play out of position, you know, the difference between the two and the three,

whatever. But the three and the four in today's modern game is like he could really, what four could take him off the dribble, like could take him off the drip like could what could handle him off the dribble so that's one thing and then the other thing is playing with below average point guards that's a guy who we've never really seen him with a point guard who knows what he's doing or a creator or playmaker and it's like if he's with oladipo and they're running high screens and stuff yeah yeah yeah he's never had that option his entire life yeah he'd be a huge upgrade over dadius young that that's for sure couple more quick ones

Yusef Nurkic no? I just think that those guys are it's not that they're done in the league but it's just the centers don't really excite me anymore I want players who can play multiple positions in a playoff series who can stay on the floor

and so he's not a needle mover in any way. He's someone that you could play in the regular season, but he's not really going to do anything for you in the playoffs, which is kind of what happened this year. You and I are aligned on that. Yeah. I judge, I would judge every roster move I made by what I watched. But let me ask you this.

What I watched in the final four, who was playing. Yeah. PJ Tucker is more important than Yusuf Nurcic. That's what we just watched. What about though, so now if the scales tip and you have Bagley becomes really good and you have DeAndre Ayton becomes really good and Embiid keeps going really good.

Do you need the one dude? Do you need the one dude? Yeah, that's a question. I just think there's a glut. You can always get him. You can get him on any team. I think you can get point guards too. I would never draft a point guard in the top 10 unless i thought it was somebody who had a chance to be like a four-time all-star yeah i would like that uh who's the guy the quip presenter sga

gildas alexander yeah they took him 11th that guy better be good because you know who's more important than point cards is fucking wings wings. And Zaire Smith. It's just harder to find Zaire Smith than a point guard. There's 50 point guards. Yeah, I agree with that. Like right now, Fred Van Vliet is a free agent. I love Fred Van Vliet though. He's restricted. Yes.

I would offer Fred Van Vliet, I would offer him the max. Whatever his max is. You would offer him $25 million a year? I don't think he can get $25 million. He's only been in the league for how many years? What's his max? Oh, I don't know. He's an RFA and he's, maybe it's like $10 million. I don't think he can get 25 he's only been in the league for how many years what's his max oh i don't know he's an rfa and he's maybe it's like 10 million i don't know i think yeah i mean of course i wouldn't offer him 25 million i would i would i would be offering more than any i would i would be upping the bidding for him this goes back to my point

with the point guards i would just rather have fred van vliet i watched him have i watched him get playoff reps i watched him run a good team. I watched him play in crunch time. And those guys are available every year. Well, I think that it's unfair to him to say that players like him are available every year because he was a big winner this year. And he was a big winner when he was in college. Maybe every other year.

Yeah, he's a special player in my opinion. He's like a young Kyle Lowry with better understanding of the game at that age. Would you trade for Kyle Lowry? No. I think that contract might be untradeable. I think it might be too. They have two untradeable contracts.

I don't think they could trade Ibaka and I don't think they can trade Lowry. Yeah. It's $50 million worth of guys that you basically can't get rid of. I mean, maybe they get rid of it for Orlando. Kyle Lowry's going to be making a lot of money when he's 30 something years old. It's crazy. Didn't seem like he was in great shape last year. It seems like he starts out the year in good shape and then it just dies at the end of the year. It's like me when I start, when I start getting into shape and then I just got to keep it going.

Quickly, Will Barton, polarizing. Yeah, he's like a six man. He could be good on a team that needs some scoring. If he was 40 years, 4 million, would you be appalled? On some teams, I think that would work. Okay. Avery Bradley, one of my favorite little free agent gems. Your favorite diminutive shooting guard. Let me throw this at you. Okay.

Kawhi, LeBron, Paul George, and then Avery Bradley for one year, 5 million as. Yeah, sure. I'll guard the other team's point guard and stand in the corner and make open threes. That'd be great. There's a lot of guys that could play that role. Yeah, he'd be one of them.

He's one of the best ones. Yeah. I don't think, I think the ship has sailed. I remember when the Celtics signed him for 8 million a year. And then like a year later, the seas parted the summer of 2016. It was like, man, he could have made 18 million a year. And now it's swung back the other way for poor Avery.

That's where you need the agent to really be aware of the moving tide of the cap situation. Yeah. Because the guys who got lucky that one year, like Drew Holiday and Mike conley and whoever else signed that year and they didn't smooth the cap those guys got set not just for life but for their lifetimes of their kids lives and everything because because of that one freaky summer brooke lopez brooke lopez is a stretch five who doesn't rebound very well, but is a great shooter. He would be perfect LeBron at the four,

Brooke Lopez at the five if he would decide you want to punt offensive rebounds, which it seems like they do most of the time. If he's your eighth man, that's a nice eighth man. I think that's his,

I think he's an overqualified bench player, but should not be a starter. I think he could be a starter for some, in some situations. For a bad team. Well, not even a bad team. Like if he was,

okay, so if he played for Cleveland instead of whoever they started, Tristan Thompson versus Golden State, I think it would be better. KCP, yes or no?

I'm no. I mean, yeah, I don't know. KCP needs like a, a, a, a heat check every now and then.

He needs, he needs, somebody needs to just tell him, just, just chill. You know, he takes these, these transition threes

and he's, he flies around a lot. I think he's getting paid, he got paid too much money last year. I don't know what they're going to pay him this year. He and Robert Covington were the co-winners for my,

what the fuck are you doing award last year? I love Robert Covington. I know you do, but he took some of the worst shots I've ever seen in my life. And in the playoffs was, not even a no, no, yes guy. He was a no, no, no guy.

But the response to that is, and maybe this changes in the playoffs and maybe this is why Houston failed. But the response to that is those three point shots were efficient shots during the regular season. And for some reason- I didn't think he played smart. Yeah, he's a very good defender.

He's a very, he's in the top tier of wing defenders. He's one of those defenders that it seems like he's fouling every time and they don't call it. And if you're rooting against him, it's super frustrating because he's just very physical. And it just seems like everything he does could be a foul. One of my favorite free agents,

Joe Harris. Sure. Lakers? Yeah, maybe. I don't know. I'm throwing all these dudes in the Lakers. You don't think Joe Harris is a three-point? Yeah, I like Joe Harris. I think Joe Harris is a fine basketball player. I'd like to see him on a good team. I think he could have a Korver-esque

kind of run the next 10 years. He doesn't move as well off the ball as Korver, but he's young. But he could also, over the next five years, could do all these workouts to get better at, you know, Korver was- I think what we're missing is that,

and not every, like, yes, anyone could do that. It's like Kramer trying to build the levels in his apartment. Anyone could do that, but not everyone will do that. And so will he put in the work that Korver put in? I don't know. Joe Harris, if you're listening, Kyle Korver made a lot of money, put in the work.

But did you see what Korver did? Korver was like moving boulders under the ocean for an entire summer as part of that. He, if you look at Korver tape from like 06, 07, he's like a better athlete now. I think he got hurt in the playoffs though. Trez Harrell. He's 38. I love Montrez Harrell.

I thought the Clippers were better with him. A hundred percent. I think they should absolutely try to keep him. Montrez Harrell- And I thought he should have played more last year. Montrez Harrell actually made Doc Rivers value offensive rebounding. For the first time ever. Oh, hey, this might work.

We might get a rebound. 24 years old, restricted. I like Montrezl Harrell. I'd like to see him on a good team. Yep. Dante Axum, 22 years old. I feel like I'm just saying I love everybody, but I like Dante Axum. You like Dante too?

Yeah, I do. So you love this free agent class. I mean, I just think there's a lot of gems, like a lot of maybe it's the project guy in me or whatever. I thought he had some defensive moments last year in the playoffs. I was impressed. So on offense, he's a little bit untamed.

I call them Bambi on blow. I don't think he's on drugs. I'm not saying it, but he played like he was really excited, like a lot of over-caffeinated basketball. And he just needs to be just restrained a little bit because he would just run with nowhere to go. It was like someone said, take this ball and run as fast as you can.

And he was so excited to just be playing basketball again, he lost his mind. But the other end of it, on the defensive end, he carded James Harden arguably as good as anyone else did in the playoffs with the exception of Andre Iguodala. I like him as well. I don't like him for 30 million over three years,

but if he's available and I can steal him, I'm looking at it. Fine. I'm going to finally give you two people that you don't like just because you were liking too many people in a row. Alfred Payton. I don't like Alfred Payton. Greg Monroe. Love Greg Monroe. I'm going to finally give you two people that you don't like, just because you were liking too many people in a row. Alfred Payton. I don't like Alfred Payton.

Greg Monroe. Love Greg Monroe. I'm just kidding. What are your least favorites? Yeah, I just, you know, Monroe doesn't move very well. Yeah, you ruined Greg Monroe for me. I was excited when we got him and you were just like, he's terrible. You can't play him defensively.

There's no way he'll matter in the playoffs. I was like, no. What happened? Did it matter? I was like, no, no, there's a way. Brad will figure it out. It's like he didn't play for the last two rounds. Nerlens?

I don't know, man. Nerlens. 24 years old. 24 years old going on 16. I like Nerlens as a basketball player, but I wouldn't want to rent my house out to him. That's for sure. Seems like he's got some issues.

If you can ever figure that out, though, boy, he could make it happen because he's a good defensive player. Under the theory, the Bill Simmons theory that I mentioned 12 minutes ago that I named after myself, he is a classic, has never been in the right situation. Well, he was in a good situation in Dallas. They wanted him and he decided to go get hot dogs. And they offered him a ridiculous contract that he turned down. Bad situation in the sense that

he never clicked with the coach. And I don't think he liked being there. They offered him a ridiculous contract, which he turned down. And yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Nerlens, figure it out, buddy. Kyle Anderson, RFA.

Kyle Anderson is just too slow for me. I don't mean mentally. I just mean physically. I'm with you. I just can't stand watching them play. It's like, I feel like sometimes my computer's frozen when I'm watching them play. Like the screen.

There's really, I think we- We blow through them all? I think we went through all the relevant guys, unless you have an opinion on Seth Curry. That would be no? No, I mean, he can shoot. I like Seth Curry. That would be no? No, I mean, he can shoot. I like Seth Curry. The problem with Seth Curry is like, would you be able to play him in a playoff series or would he get bum hunted?

Probably get bum hunted. We missed Julius Randle, 23 years old. I love Julius Randle. Me too. But I actually do like Julius Randle. That guy can fucking score and he gets rebounds. He puts up 18 and 12s. You give him the ball on the block facing not his back to the basket, but facing. He's a battering ram.

I like Julius Randle. I wonder if there's a way to work him into that Spurs trade. I don't know. If they could sign and trade him? We need like Danny LaRue or something in here to give us like, no, actually, technically the rules are such that you must do this and you must do that. Well, I think after July 1st, they could just sign and trade him. I'm not a general manager, so I don must do that. Well, I think after July 1st, I could just sign and trade him.

I'm not a general manager, so I don't read that stuff, but I probably should just for my own sanity. Yeah, I missed a couple guys here. Marcus Smart, quickly. I like Marcus Smart. Good offensive rebounder, good defender. Like him for $20 million a year? I do not like him for $20 million. These guys are all guys you like for like under $10 million a year.

So if the Celtics brought him back for 40 for four, you'd be fired up? Yeah. I'm worried somebody's going to offer more than that. I think he's Indiana's backup plan if they can't get Aaron Gordon. That's what my intel says. He just doesn't have a dependable jump shot yet. You like Ariza, but for shorter years than four. He's old.

JJ Redick, 34 years old. Host of the Ringer Podcast Network. Host of the Ringer Podcast. I like JJ Redick. I think he referred to me as Bill's boy in one of your podcasts. Oh, the Ringer Podcast Network. Host of the Ringer Podcast. I like JJ Redick. I think he referred to me as Bill's boy in one of your podcasts. Oh, that's nice. Sorry.

I'm a grown man, by the way, JJ, just so you know. I would, yeah, I like JJ Redick. I think he would be the perfect guy that could make, he got paid a ton of money last year. He might be a guy that might want to pay for a little bit less money in LA again. If LeBron goes there. He wants to stay in Philly.

He wants to, he what? He wants to stay in Philly. He wants to, he what? He wants to stay in Philly. Cause he likes living on the East coast. Well, I think he'd take, he was living in Brooklyn before. Right.

And he still might live in Brooklyn. Yeah. Ariza short money. We said favors was the last guy we missed. I think favors is he's developed a three point shot. He's a good defender. He rebounds well. He can defend in isolation.

Is he a five or four? He's a five. That's how I well. He can defend in isolation. Is he a five or a four? He's a five. That's how I feel too. I think he's on the wrong team. I mean, it's just tough because Gobert's there and what are you going to do? And they did start them together and have had some success. And then they also staggered them as well. So I think Favors has, he's not one of the guys that I think, I would honestly rather take a chance on Favors than DeMarcus Cousins for way less money and just be like, okay, this is a reasonable facsimile of DeMarcus Cousins in some ways. This is why we get along. If I'm Dallas, I offer Capella that get Houston to match that.

And then I go for favors for like three years, 30. Right. There's some other guys that are- Over the Boogie Cousins. Sure. And then I have enough money to go get somebody else too. I think they need to get two guys with that. I want to have a nice team around Doncic

because he's that important. And if I can't get Capella, I'd rather mix and match with a couple of guys. Yeah, Shuck and Jive pick up maybe like Deadman or something like that or some other players. Yeah, Deadman. There's Kyle O'Quinn. Kyle O'Quinn.

That's the thing. It's kind of the glory age for being able to just pluck back a big man out of the woodwork. It's kind of the glory age for being able to just pluck back a big man out of the woodwork. It's like, what is that? I don't know. It's like something weird sport. There's some weird game as a kid that you could play.

It's a glut. You can choose whoever you want. When you're paying Jan Mahim these $16 million a year, it's just a disaster. Or beyond both 17. What do you think of Gortat to the Clippers? I feel like the Clippers are making some moves that are good. I kind of like the Clippers team. I gave up my court sides this year.

You did? I did. I couldn't take it anymore. You can always get them. They weren't the ones I wanted and I never went to any games. I just was like, I don't need these anymore. I'm trying to make my life a lot more simple. I like Gortat in a change of scenery situation. I love his picks. I think him and Lou Williams will be, I think he's going to really be able to help him get open and do stuff.

I love that they traded Austin Rivers. I think they have some new blood. I liked Harris. Every Clipper game I went to last year, I was like, Harris plays hard. Yeah, I like Tobias Harris. I like how much he gives a shit. Yeah, he might have been,

like they've done, they've really, really done a good job since Jerry West has come there and since Doc Rivers has focused more on coaching. I liked Harrell. Everything.

Some guys I liked. The Beverly, like getting the stuff. Beverly coming back is nice. Yeah, like they, you know, I don't know what they'll do with Milos.

I think Milos is out. Where is he going? Well, that's another sneaky free agent. Yeah. He's fun. He's really fun. Yeah. Put him on kind of a wide open Dallas type of team.

Send him to the Kings. Kings would be good. That'd be fun. Is he available? He's a free agent. I got to be honest. I hated that they passed up Doncic. But I do like the Fox-Bagley combo.

What about- I like Fox and Bagley. I like Fox-Bagley. What about Vade saying that Bagley could play the three? Well, that's- I mean, that is like- That's offensive. That's-

What is going on? Four or five. You play him at five and you get outscored on one end and you try to score more than the other. But that guy's building your team. How does that make you feel as a Kings? Is it a newsflash for you that he's terrible? I mean, I don't know. They gave away an unprotected first-round pick

to sign Marco Bellinelli in for John Rondo. My word. That's still the worst trade of this decade. How does this happen? I don't get how this could happen. How does a guy come from like build himself up from nothing like Vivek did and

massive fortune in this country and seems like a shrewd dude and then be like, you know what? I think I'm going to turn the keys over to the guy who thinks Marvin Bagley can play the three and wants to trade first unprotected first for Marco Bellinelli. This is goofy.

But everyone should have gotten fired after that. Although sometimes I wonder if the owner just does whatever he wants. Maybe he's doing it. Maybe he, that's what I mean. Vivek. I know. I'm agreeing with you. Maybe it's not. I never even knew until recently this story about how everyone in Dallas wanted to take Giannis

and Cuban overruled them. I know that's an interesting story. Because he needed to trade back to shave some cap space for- The cool thing about that is that Mark admits to it. He admits to it. Michael Jordan has not admitted to this Donovan Mitchell story, which seems to be floating around. Michael Jordan's still hoping that Adam Morrison can get over his- What is this? Adam Morrison?

He turned down four first round picks for Frank Kaminsky, including what would have been the Jalen Brown pick. No. No, that's a 100% true fact. Why four first round picks? It was four

because Danny was trying to trade up to get Justice Winslow. He offered him four first round picks. Oh my gosh. Including the unprotected Brooklyn pick in 2016.

Wow. And then last year, the whole staff wanted to take Donovan Mitchell and he overruled them for mock which I supported at the time

so I'm not I'm not killing him on that part but he basically overruled the entire staff so I think it happens more often

than people think yeah no of course like I said before it's very hard to predict this stuff if you if you owned an NBA team

yes which isn't unrealistic it's getting more and more unrealistic it's getting more and more unrealistic but it's getting more and more unrealistic, but it's not, it can't be ruled out. Yeah. Ultimately, you're making a redraft pick. I'm going to rule it out. Huh? Hey, you can't rule it out. Who knows?

Yeah. You would make final calls on things like, do we take Donovan Mitchell? Well, of course I am, but I've made my entire fortune on my opinion of basketball. It's different. Cuban could say the same. He's like, I've been here 20 years. But it's not the same. I know what I'm doing.

It's not. Well, Cuban might know what he's doing. I'm not saying he doesn't, but it's still not the same. I would say the last six years would make me question that, but the Doncha trade

brought me, sucked me back in on the Cuban basketball. So are you tweeting all summer? Probably not. At Haralaba? I might write some articles about this gambling thing in the NBA

and how it'll impact the future. I might start writing again and publishing. I'm thinking about it. Are you trying to hurt my feelings? No, I never said I wouldn't write. I don't know yet. I don't know. What are you talking about?

I might. I just want to start writing. I've got a lot of shit I want to get off my chest and I want to write. I've been writing for the last month straight. Can we talk? Yes, we can talk. Haral, pleasure as always.

Our final prediction is LeBron and Kawhi. And it's done. It's a wrap. And then Paul George. Maybe. Can we give Vegas odds for Paul George? Seven to one to the Lakers. No,

that's too high. That's too high. I don't know. I'm not a gambling guy. I would say plus 200 Lakers minus two 50. Okay. C plus 500 Philly. Okay.

I'll go with the guy you're, you got to, you're, yeah, you got your finger on the pulse of gambling now. So I'm going to go with you. Thank you. It was really nice of you.

I have Columbia in the world Cup at 35-1. Everybody in the team's hurt. That's amazing. We did. I told you about the bet Sal and I made, right? No. At the finals, Lakers plus 400. No, no. Lakers plus 250 for LeBron.

Okay. Cavs plus 800. We bet both. Oh, he's, yeah. We staggered it so that it was basically like, we just win no matter what happens. And I think we're looking, now that Houston's out, unless some sort of unbelievable, out of nowhere, Philly situation.

It's going to be exciting. I hope I get the inside information that I've been getting in years past because it's fun knowing. You had, didn't you have LeBron? I had KD. You had KD to the Warriors. didn't you have LeBron? I had KD. You had KD the Warriors. Didn't you have LeBron Miami?

I had LeBron in Miami, but I didn't tell anyone. I just kind of knew. I got like- You heard about it. Yeah, I've got like these weird undergounds. KD you had a few days before. KD, I tweeted that it was over. The season was over for the next three years.

Forget it. Let's all go home. People thought I was talking about Mike Brown being hired as the assistant coach for the Golden State Warriors, and I was being facetious, but I was not. And I remember even telling someone in the front office of the Warriors, like it's over. And they're like, no, it's not over. It's not a done deal. I'm like, buddy, I'm telling you right now, it's over. He's made up his mind. He's torturing you. I don't know

what he's doing, but it's done. It's a done deal. So that was fun. Well, if you want to, if you get the LeBron scoop and you want to give it to us, we'll do it as the ringers, Haral and Bob Vulgaris. And you can be on the ticker. Yeah, I don't know.

The ringers, Haral and Bob Vulgaris reports. I think I'm more of a lone wolf than that, but I'll keep it in mind. I'll keep it in mind. All right, think about it. All right, I will. Thanks for coming on. Thank you.

Thanks so much to ZipRecruiter. Don't forget to check them out at ziprecruiter.com slash BS. Thanks to theringer.com, the best website on the planet. I'm biased, but I think it's true. Thanks to Gillette. I've already talked about how much I love Gillette. Guess what? They offer a variety of shaving products for every guy, regardless of personal style,

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to get $20 off your first custom shirt today. We are back Monday. The NBA landscape might be very, very different. Until then. I feel it's within. On the wayside. I'm a bruised soul. I never said I don't have to.