The Bill Simmons Podcast - Willie McGinest on USC Celebrity, Snoop's Days in Long Beach, and His Best Career Win (Ep. 253)

Episode Date: August 30, 2017

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by former Patriots Super Bowl champion linebacker Willie McGinest to discuss the differences between Bill Parcells and Bill Belichick (8:00), the rudderless Patriots of the ’90s (16:00), pushing the USC Trojans to hire Pete Carroll (26:00), O.J.'s superstar status at USC (31:00), Snoop Dogg's days playing quarterback (35:00), Dr. Dre's creative genius (43:00), the Michael Vick experience (56:00), the 2001 Super Bowl win (1:04:00), and where Willie keeps all of his Super Bowl rings (1:19:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Check out the Ringer Podcast Network. Lots of good stuff. And don't forget to check out the ringer.com as well because this is our time, man. Football season, basketball, it's all happening. And it's all happening here on the BS Podcast where you're going to have Willie McGinnis, the former Patriot. Good stuff coming up, but first Pearl Jam.

Here with Superbowl champ, Willie McGinnis. The champ. What's up, buddy? See, all the OG Pats fans have a special affection for the guys from the original era. They do. The 01 to 04

when we never imagined the Patriots could win one Super Bowl. Now it's funny. Now America hates the Patriots. This incredible Belichick Brady dynasty, the whole thing. It's inconceivable to anybody. If I went back in time and explained this to myself in 2000, I just wouldn't have believed it. It must be hard for you to believe. You know, it is a little surreal. And just being there when we were building things from the 90s

and then when we hit, you know, mid-2000s when all the magic started to happen and to be gone, retire, and see the magic still happening. I mean, just think about it. I mean, they still lost two Super Bowls. What if they would have won those two Super Bowls? Like, could you imagine? It would probably have been the greatest or probably still could be the greatest franchise in sports history. You know?

It's seven Super Bowls. And really the only one that they definitely should have won is the Eagles one. They really could have lost the other six. A couple plays go one way or the other. You just don't know. That's true. Came down to having a great kicker. Yeah.

Shout out to Adam Vinatieri, one of my good friends. But, you know, the thing with that is the two-minute drives. Yeah. Good quarterback play. Good offensive play. Good defensive play. Getting, you know, putting the offense in position.

And then you got to execute when the game's on the line. And now when I watch games, Bill, I watch a little differently. But in crucial situations, when the game is on the line, when you need to make plays, when you need your stars to step up, when you need a quarterback like Aaron Rodgers, like I watched him drive the field in a minute 42 to win the game in the playoffs against Dallas. I mean, he had almost no time on the clock. Dak had just went down and scored,

and everybody's like, does he have enough time? And that's, to me, the sign of a great, I don't use the word great a lot, but a great quarterback or a great player who was clutch when you need them to be clutch. And good coaching. And good coaching. Habits that become things that decide games, like Malcolm Butler having practiced that

play in the Seattle Super Bowl. Exactly. It's incredible. They have the footage of he's getting torched by like, I think it was Josh Boyce. He played it wrong. He broke too late. Played it at him. Played it wrong multiple times. Multiple times. And then the play happens in the Super Bowl and he's ready for it. Yeah, I mean, I would say the over-under for, they went 5-2 in the Super Bowl. If you played all those, probably 4.5 up and down. It could have been 4-3 I think is realistic. I like 5 and two. Yeah, five and two is pretty good.

And as you said, it really could have been seven and oh with a couple plays. Helmet catch doesn't happen. Manningham on the sideline. The other one doesn't happen. A great catch that Eli threw between Chung and the cornerback, like the perfect sideline throw. Or if Gronk's even healthy in that game. I'm always convinced.

I've said this on the pod so many times, but like in football, the way it is now, especially with the cap, there's maybe every year there's four to eight teams that are probably the realistic ones that can win. And you get in these games and who the hell knows? No. You know, it could go like that Atlanta game. If you played that game 10 times. First of all, if you played that game 100 times, 28 to 3,

I think the Pats might win two of them. That's tough. But, you know, those teams are really close, and the Pats could not stop Atlanta's offense for the most part. A lot of people couldn't stop that offense. Yeah, they were ripping through people. Right. So it's different.

Like when you were coming of age in the late 90s, I do feel like the right team won the game most of the time. Like in basketball. I think the most prepared team would win the game. The team who plays better situational football in certain times of the game, I think that's like Belichick and I would say there's Pete Carroll. I can go down the line. There's some coaches.

McCarthy, I would say, with Green Bay. There's certain coaches that play great situational football. And if you survey- Interesting you threw McCarthy in there. Yeah. Okay. Because you've seen Aaron Rodgers do it. Yeah.

I don't know how much of that is Rodgers and how much is McCarthy. Well, you still got to have a game plan, right? True. You still got to put somebody in position to do that. Yeah. You know? And then, like you said, it's about the player. You can only do so much.

You can put them in position and the player has to go out and execute. But when you go and you watch other teams practice like I do now, and you talk to players, you see how much time they really spend on situational football. That's not really popular in a lot of organizations or a lot of teams. Like we would have entire practices just based on situations where we were put in situations. Okay. It's fourth and two, here's the down, here's a score. This is what you have to do. Go. And no coaches can help. And you have to figure it out. And we would be in practice at times and say, you know what? Some of this stuff is never going to happen in the game. And then when it happens in the game,

you're sitting there like deja vu, like we just went over this. So you're prepared and you don't panic and you're comfortable and you kind of think it and you play it out. And nine times out of ten, it will work itself out and we will win that situation. But there's a lot of teams that get into those situations and something happens. A player has a mental error. They don't execute. Somebody lines up in the wrong spot, the play doesn't happen the way they think because they've never went over that situation time and time again. And that's all preparation.

And I think the best coaches in the league take their players through those type of practices and those type of situations. So when they do happen, like in the Super Bowl this year, like that was some great situational football. Some two-point conversions, all that stuff. All that stuff. Halftime adjustments. You go out at halftime, you make an adjustment and things just night and day. You played for, in succession, Bill Parcells, Pete Carroll, Bill Belichick. I would argue that's got to be three of the top five most successful coaches

of the past 30 years. At least around 10 Super Bowls or something like that, something crazy. Yeah, and if you throw in what Pete did at USC. Which I would love because that's my alma mater, of you throw in what pete did at usc so let's start which i would love because that's my alma mater of course i would love you know i love that um let's start let's go parcells first so you show up what year were you drafted i forget 94 94 yeah yeah um the pats are a joke i mean i'm a lifelong Boston fan. They were the black sheep. When I was growing up, it was 1976.

We should have beaten the Raiders. Sugar Bear Hamilton, third and 17, rough in the passer. Most bogus call. That's my guy. He was my coach, too. He's one of my D-line coaches with Pete. That's right. Unbelievable, awful call.

And we talk about that for the rest of the 70s. In the 80s, we make the Super Bowl. We win in Miami. We beat Oakland. They get killed by the Bears. There's a drug scandal two days later, and the team's immediately terrible again. They almost move. Almost moves to St. Louis. Parcells saves them.

Bledsoe shows up. We get you the next year. And for the Pats fans that loved you know when you're buying the jerseys there's different types of massachusetts fans the the bandwagon just buy whoever the quarterback is the people who buy the cool running back or receiver but there's a lot of people there that buy who's our best front seven defensive player there's a lot of willie jerseys out there is my point. You were adopted by a big percentage, including my buddy J-Book.

Where they were like, that's 55, that's our dude. We're doing it. That's because Tippett was the previous generation. Tippett was. Tippett is still the man there. That's my guy. He's one of my mentors. He's one of the guys I watched. So you go in. The team's

good now. 94, we make the playoffs. I'm going to use we like I played. Right. We lose to Cleveland. Lose to Cleveland. But semi-winnable game was promising. 95 step back. The 96 team's coming.

That's the team I always felt like we're a year away from being a Super Bowl team. But then somehow that team made the Super Bowl. We did. And then Parcells is gone. A lot of people didn't think we were going to go to the Super Bowl. Denver should have made the Super Bowl that year. Lost. They beat us at home, right? Well, Denver kind of owned us in the 90s. They did. And it was

like, all right, well, Denver, they'll win one more, but then next year's, but then Brunel goes in a mile high and beats them. Now all of a sudden, we're playing Brunel. At home? Now all of a sudden, we're in the Super Bowl, and it took five seconds for everyone in Massachusetts and New England to be like, we're winning. We're beating Brett Favre. I still feel like they could have won that game too.

The Howard kickoff is haunting even though there's five Super Bowls since. And can I tell you something about that? Troy Brown was supposed to be on kickoff. They took him off, right? They took him off because of an injury. And they didn't know if he was ready. And I guess they were trying to save him a little bit. So Troy ended up not being on the kickoff. We had another guy in that exact same lane that Howard broke. Yeah. He got out of his lane. He lost discipline lane. We call it like lane discipline. That is the exact same spot Troy Brown,

I guarantee a thousand percent would have been in and made that play. And that was the momentum swing. Yeah, I remember they were showing Reggie White getting oxygen on the sidelines. Watched us thinking like, this team's, we're keeping them on defense on the field. They're getting tired. But let's go backwards. We said that.

And then something happened. He must've hurt us because he got mad yeah they took over the game yeah all of a sudden he was fired um but go backwards though you're a rookie you get parcells as your coach yep ultimately this is a great thing for you did you realize that at the time i didn't even know i was getting drafted by new england until he called me on drafting to to say, I'm taking you with the number four pick. I had visited. You knew you were a top five pick. I didn't know that. Well, I knew I, well, actually I kind of did.

I was, I was originally supposed to go to Dallas. They were going to trade up to the fifth pick. They're going to trade Alvin Harper, the receiver, and they were going to take to the Rams for the fifth pick. And they were going to take me. So I had all the representatives from Dallas. Wow, you could have been a cowboy? Yeah. I just got a chill down my spine. I had all those guys from Dallas at my draft party. I stayed home, had a draft party with my friends and family. I had about three representatives from Dallas there. The Dallas hat was on the table. They were there and they were going to

take me fifth pick. They were going they were going to take me fifth pick. They were going to trade up and take me fifth pick. So I thought I was going to Dallas, actually. No conversations with Parcells. I visited once. We had an interesting conversation when I was there, and that was it. Why did you smile when you said interesting? Because he was a dick?

No, he showed me two tapes. How? Why'd you smile when you said interesting? Because he was a dick? No, he showed me two tapes. Oh. He showed me one tape where I had a bad game and one tape against Penn State where I had a great game. And he's like, if I draft you, which William McGinnis am I going to get? And I was like, of course, that one. I was like, I had a bad game. You know, like, that's not me.

I said, look at the rest of the tape. He's like, I know what the rest of the tape looks like. I'm asking you, which guy am I going to get? And I'm like, there's no question. You're going to get that guy, the Penn state guy. And he was like,

all right, kid. And that was it. I didn't come here for a personal workout, anything. That was it. Which did your career turn out better than it should have because of Parcells or exactly the same?

I'm going to say better. Okay. Because I was used to say better. Okay. Because I was used to that type of coaching coming in. I learned a lot. He did some things in my infant stages that helped me as a player develop and as a man. With my positioning, he knew every position on the field. One of the smartest football minds you would ever,

you know, imagine. Um, he knew how to get players motivated. I would say to say, I'm sure you understand, you know, that you were around then.

Um, he brought in Lawrence Taylor, like my childhood idol, um, to help me in camp, my rookie season. Oh, wow.

To talk to and listen to and, and get some pointers to, from, um, and just the way he coached, I was, you know, I understood that you can make a few plays and that's,

it's, it's not enough. Like he wouldn't acknowledge until you were consistently doing what you needed to do. And I respected that. And it made guys want to do more and more. So I would say from say for my infant stages, that is what, you know, that's priceless for a football player.

So he'd throw you the compliment when you didn't expect it. He'd throw you the insult when you thought you were feeling great about yourself. Exactly. Kept you humble. He was always. Like the new song, Kendrick Lamar, sit down, be humble. Stop jumping around.

Stop getting all excited. You just made a play. You're supposed to do that. Right. He instilled that in my mind. Like, you make a tackle, why are you getting up celebrating? You are supposed to do that. Yeah.

And I was like, oh, you're right. I am. It was so interesting as a Pats fan during that time because the team had been so rudderless and we had so many coaches and so many owners. And up until Bledsoe, the best player in the history of the franchise was John Hanna, who was like a left guard. It's like, how do you get excited about that? He was a beast, though.

He was the best left guard of all time. That was all we had. I was like, hey, we had the best left guard ever. But then to have Parcells come in, it was almost, it was like having a broken home. And then all of a sudden having a dad show up and just be like, all of us trusted him. He would have these great press conferences. He had good taste in players. And it was just life altering.

Not only that. It was like, wow, the team's in good hands finally. Not only that, but just remember also, that's the first year that Mr. Craft bought the team. So there was a lot going on and I was Mr. Craft's first pick. Right. Buying the team. So now I'm called the fifth son. And I mean, I appreciate everything.

I hope that's lucrative for you. Check it as well. He's done a lot for me. I appreciate everything. But Parcells, Mr. Craft, Brian and team, you start to see change start to happen. The culture change and things start to change a little bit with that franchise. And I was fortunate to be right there from the ground from the ground up you caught you guys caught new england sports at at the right time too because like the celtics

had just cratered oh yeah bird and mikhail were gone reggie lewis tragically died and all of a sudden that team stunk the bruins had had this great run kim neely got hurt all of a sudden they were in the dumps the red socks the 86 world series hangover the clemens era was kind of over then all of a sudden you guys rise and football just took off i mean they were always like the diehard pats fans but it wasn't it was never ever it was not like a red socks town it was red socks and then larry bird there's bobby or larry bird but then red socks and then that was the first time that Pat's DNA took over. And all of it led to this improbable Super Bowl season when playing the Packers.

This is great. This is the next dynasty. Not yet. And then Parcells is gone. Yeah. But I got to say, just as a diehard, I still hold it against Parcells the way he left. And the fact that the team had an inkling of it, even as the Super Bowl is coming. And there was turmoil that I thought affected the team heading into the game.

What did you think you were on the team? I think that he did everything he could to keep all the distractions away. Did it work? I don't think guys were distracted by it. I think guys kind of probably had some type of notion that something was going on. But I will say he kept all the distractions away. He did not talk about leaving. He didn't talk about any of that stuff or what he had planned

or what was going on until after the game was over. We heard rumors and things like that. And, of course, you know, you're normal. You're human. You have questions or whatever. But he kept us focused on what we needed to do. Regardless of what he had going on personally or what, you know, his plans were, it never really spilled into our preparation or what we were doing for that week.

What was the story after the game? He didn't ride with the team? Well, he had conversations. He did. He had conversations with certain guys, and I was one of those guys that he had a conversation with that said he appreciated me and he loved me. And, you know, all the hard work and all the things that, you know, we put into getting there. He, you know, the effort and, you know, we had a conversation and that's when he told me like, I won't, you know, I won't be here.

Yeah. Did you feel betrayed when he went to the Jets? Yeah. I mean, I was hurt because, you know, that was the man that drafted me, him and Mr. Craft. And that was, you know, that was somebody I look forward to going forward at, especially getting to a Super Bowl in your second year. You're like, wow, like we really got something special here. Yeah. And to see him like, you know, and I was naive.

I was young. I didn't know how this stuff worked. I figured he was going to be my coach, you know, forever. This is my head coach. He's not going anywhere. Because when you have that much success, why would you mess things up? I was going to say say if you looked just after 96 what two teams are in the best shape in the nfl would have been the packers and the pats right

both young teams built around quarterbacks on the rise and good defensive players and you would have guessed like that they were going to play in the super bowl a couple more times right maybe denver's in that discussion too because they had TD and Elway at that point. Denver had a really good team. Yeah. But that was – those were the teams. But that next year's team was the better team from a talent standpoint. Guys were – and I still have bitterness about that season. Just as I've always feel like I wish it had been one more year before the Parcells thing self-combusted. Right.

Because I think that 97 team would have won. You never know. You never know. Yeah, you never know. It's a great what if. It worked out. It did. I'm not arguing with how it worked out.

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for over 20 years, DirecTV has been the exclusive home for NFL Sunday Ticket, the only way to get every live game every Sunday. And one of the only reasons I allowed myself to move to Los Angeles, because once DirecTV was a thing, you could live wherever you wanted and watch your favorite football team, baseball team, basketball team, whatever. Good news, NFL fans, DirecTV has expanded the service. If you live in an apartment or you are an enrolled college student, you can now get NFL Sunday Ticket without one of those satellites. Just get it streaming. To see if you're eligible, go online to NFLSundayTicket.tv, stream every NFL Sunday Ticket game this season, follow your team no matter where you live. Use

promo code Bill Simmons. Guess what? You save 15% with that promo code. Once again, that's NFLSundayTicket.tv, promo code Bill Simmons. Watch all the football you want. Knock yourself out. NFLSundayTicket.tv. Carol comes in. You felt like, it just seemed like obviously he turned out to be a great coach. I'm as shocked as anyone. I thought he was a disaster. But there were more things maybe that I didn't give credit for, like just how hard it is to follow Parcells, certain things established in the locker room, a certain culture that all of a sudden this guy comes in, he's completely different.

Why did it not work in your opinion? Well, you got to remember that Parcells established a type of culture, a type of player. And when you get all the players that you want in the locker room and then another coach comes in, that's like that's totally opposite. You know, I think he had more energy to say the least, a more of a happy, you know, rah-rah type attitude. His coaching style was different. The way he talked and the way he approached things was totally different. He didn't rule with an iron fist. And I think we had- And you had a lot of young dudes on that team. That's the problem. Did you need an Iron Fisk coach?

You probably did. Well, you know what? There are men. But some guys took advantage of the way, you know, Pete was. And they didn't respect it. And they didn't do what they needed to do. So, I think he got veterans to do, you know, certain guys to do what they

needed to do. But there were other guys who just took advantage of the situation and didn't. The famous concert was Bledsoe and a couple other people. They were stage diving in a concert during the week. Everyone in Boston went nuts. They was rocking out, man. Yeah. It's like, what are these guys doing?

Guys do that all the time. Why are you having fun at a concert? You should be winning football games. Right. They forget we have personal lives too. I mean, you have to admit, the Boston fans are pretty hands-on. They are when something bad happens, you know? As long as you're winning, it's okay.

Yeah, if you win, it's fine. They got the sports radio just critiquing everything in the newspaper. Well, you know about that. Well, you were there. You're a sports guy, right? I know, but I was young when I was, yeah, I was like writing for nobody. But I always felt like there was a negativity with the media that I think when things weren't, you have guys like Shaughnessy coming in.

You think it was a spillover like that New York media kind of? Like we had a spillover from that kind of? A little bit, yeah. It was negative. Well, if you're not winning, here's the thing. If you're winning, things are kind of overlooked a little bit more. But if you're winning and things are going well, then it's okay.

I think Pete's first year, I think we started off like seven and one, something crazy before the bi-week. Yeah. So there was a lot of positive energy, a lot of positives going on, but then we ended up, I believe, eight and eight. Right. So- My theory in this is, and you'll appreciate this because you're from here and you live

here now, the cold weather cities, I think it almost means too much. When you're in a, you know, you have these New England winters when it's like five months a year, it's just brutal. And then the summer comes and it's 100 degrees. And, you know, I think it drives people a little bit crazy. And the teams take on this kind of mystical level of importance, whereas out here it's like, hey, it's 80 degrees again today. Or an export.

Yeah, or whatever. There's so much going on. Yeah, there's so much. I just think people are lunatics, and I include myself because that's my DNA. Obviously, I go nuts for my teams. But, man, the Pat stuff, people were so mad that the team wasn't going to get back to the Super Bowl. Like, we have so much talent. What is wrong?

It's Pete Carroll's fault. I include myself. I thought Pete Carroll was like a school teacher. You know, he was like the substitute teacher that came in because Parcells was on vacation. Drastic. It was different, right? It was so different. And he was. Drastic. It was different, right? It was so different. He was. I mean, he was different.

But he was still a really good coach. So you left the Pete Carroll experience thinking like, that guy's a good coach. He got a raw deal with this. He did. And it was proven when he went to my alma mater. He went to SC. So when USC hired him, you were like, this is great. This guy's going to do well. I pushed for it. I was

one of his biggest supporters. Oh, wow. I was alumni. I was telling Mike Garrett at the time, who was the athletic director, Pete was probably his fifth or sixth choice, but he was my number one. I'm like, this guy has the energy for college football. This guy will get these players to play at a certain level. He will bring SC back.

So you told Mike Garrett, I'll contribute to our secret slush fund to get the recruits get these players to play at a certain level. He will bring SC back. So you told Matt Garrett, I'll contribute to our secret slush fund to get the recruits. I'll put an extra hundred K of my salary. If you get this guy. SC didn't need my little bit of money, but me and Pete had the same agent. Yeah. Oh,

that helps. We had the same agent. So I was pulling for Pete and I just knew just, just like I said, his coaching style. And, and that's big with recruiting and you recruiting kids out of high school and you're at a prestigious university. And like you said, you're in California. The energy is different. That energy matched Pete perfectly. And I just thought it was a no brainer.

And some people doubt it. And some people had their reservations about him coming in. And all right, we'll give it a shot. But then when they start winning, everybody start beating their chest, taking the credit. Like, oh, I made this great choice. And we knew he was the guy the entire time. And I was just sitting back like, okay. I was living here during almost all of that.

And the 06 team that had the famous Rose Bowl game against Vince Young, those guys were celebrities here. I mean, it's hard to stand out in Los Angeles as a celebrity. That was the only team. But Leiner and Reggie Bush. We didn't have a team. Yeah. We didn't have an NFL team at the time.

They were our NFL team. And literally, some of those guys were probably making as much They were our NFL team. And literally they're probably, some of those guys were probably making as much money as an NFL team. I wouldn't know anything about that. But yeah, those guys, I mean, that was a moment. It was a thing. That Rose Bowl was incredible. It was. And I remember watching that game from the hotel. I don't know if we're in the playoffs or if we're on the road, but I remember watching that game on the playoffs, and I was sick to my stomach when we lost. I just knew we were going to win again and win another national championship.

I was excited, but, you know, again, you got to make plays. Vince, yeah, made some plays. It was the last play of the game. My thing was, you knew he was going to run. You knew the best player, one of the best players on that team was going to – you knew Vince wanted that game, that ball in his hands. Like just sitting there watching it from my hotel room,

I'm like, Vince is going to take off with the ball. You could play great coverage. I'd rather him throw it. He wasn't the greatest passer. He was not the greatest passer. I wanted him to throw the ball. Like, my thing is make him throw it. If he takes off, now we're in trouble.

Right. And guess what? He took off. And I was like, shit. How many times do you pull the famous alumni power play of just, hey, I'm going to be on the sidelines for this one, guys. Get my pass ready. Well, I don't have to do that because I'm one of the ambassadors to the football program. So you get the special pass.

Yeah. So we're still around the football. Like, you know, you got Anthony Munoz. Yeah. Marcus Allen, Ronnie Lott. These are very successful football players. The late, great Junior Seau, who I got my number from, who was passed down to me. Len Swan, who's passed down to me. Um,

Lynn Swan, who's the athletic director now. Um, you know, there's, there's, there's a few of us that are SC ambassadors. So we're allowed,

we have special privileges. Um, and that's home. Once you're a, that's the difference between SC and a lot of schools. Once you're a Trojan, your family, you're always a Trojan.

They welcome everybody back. The OJ component of this is a crazy wrinkle, though. I mean, he's the most famous. There's a lot of wrinkles. Yeah, I mean, there's all kinds of wrinkles. But I mean, that's the most famous SC guy of all time. He is.

He is. He's one of. I don't know what... It's kind of hard to elaborate on that i mean um must have been especially strange for you you're an la guy and an sc guy and you're in the nfl when all that stuff goes down you must have been like what the hell is going on i was watching it i was watching it from a sports bar uh the car chase at the mart at the Marriott hotel. I was having, I was having dinner and I was watching it from a hotel bar. And you must have met OJ, right? Of course. Of course I met OJ. He's one of our, you know, he's one of our famous alumni. He's one of the greatest football

players to play at SC. Yeah. And when we had our banquets at SC, he would, you know, he would pull up, you know, and he would, he would be around and I here. I'm from L.A. I'm from Long Beach. And, like, he's a superstar. He was a superstar, you know. I think he's more known now than he probably was then. Yeah, that's true. You know. I'm trying to think who else.

So you must have crossed paths with a bunch of people in the 90s. Yeah. Snoop. Snoop, you're from the same neighborhood some same town neighborhood same neighborhood or same town it's from long beach yeah snoop's from long beach and he went to long beach is a big big melting pot of talent okay you know about long beach yeah i like long beach so how so snoop's taken off did you know snoop before he took off absolutely so we play youth football together and then we went to

high school football with snoop yeah yeah you you snoop was like a quarterback i believe he played i coached snoop in the uh celebrity basketball game in 2014 against jalen and my biggest mistake was not playing him more because that dude could rebound yeah he's not bad he was good i mean it's not bad i try to get him in the weight room a little bit more so he can muscle guys, but he's more of a finesse guy. In my defense, I mean, he did get high before the game, which I witnessed. So I was like, maybe I

won't ride Snoop into the ground this game. And what did he tell you? He said, it helps me jump higher. It helps elevate his game. He told me to put him back in. He was like, Coach, put me back in. He kind of got mad. I was like, I'm not going to argue with Snoop, though. He wants to go back in. Snoop put him back in. He's like, coach, put me back in. He kind of got mad. I was like, I'm not going to argue with Snoop Dogg. He wants to go back in.

Snoop's going back in. He's very competitive. He was competitive then. Did you see the Defiant Ones on HBO? Absolutely. I grew up through that area. I was a part of that. They did an unbelievable, unbelievable breakdown of the West Coast versus these, and how that whole thing deteriorated and

i was just one but that was just one empire like that was just that was just the defro era that was just the the the snoop and dre and all those guys that's just one one music company yeah you know and it it's crazy i remember in 92 um going up to Def Ro with Snoop when he signed. You know, I remember being on a boat at his album release party. I remember a lot of different things. Like, that was my guy. You know, that is my guy. That's my brother.

And I just remember all those different events. And I'm watching the Define ones like, okay, I remember that. Are you looking for yourself at the big party? No, because I was always out of the way. I was off doing my thing. I was still in college in 92. Yeah. I was at SC.

Keeping it low. My junior year. And I just remember going to the video shoots, hanging out, going to the parties, going to the studio, just watching all this stuff happen. And I was just like, wow. So when you watch the Defiant Ones, it's kind of like a little timeline.

At what point did you learn, I'm not going to even cross shit night in any way? I'm staying away from that dude. I think me and him had a mutual respect for each other. Because you were his size. I never feared him. To me, he was a businessman, never feared. I never feared him. Like to me, he was a,

you know, he was a businessman and I understood what he was doing. And like I said, it was a mutual respect. You know, everybody has their own interactions with people and ours wasn't, you know, on one of those levels where it's disrespect or whatever.

I was Snoop's homeboy and I was playing football. I remember Shug when he was at UNLV playing football. So, you know, we kind of connected on a different level before the music stuff. What position was Suge? I don't think I knew about his UNLV football past. I think Suge was like a D lineman, if I'm not mistaken. I would have guessed nose tackle or defensive tackle. One of those.

Somewhere in there. You got to have a certain mentality to play on defense too. So yeah. Or you have to be 360 pounds or whatever. Still got to be a little mean. I was watching, not to get sidetracked, but I was watching the,

the Pat Seahawks greatest games, like the cool NFL film shoot with my son. Cause my son is now in a football. So we're kind of going backwards. The Patriots. Come on. I kicked him out of the house. I'm with my son. Cause my son is now in a football. So we're kind of going backwards. The Patriots. Come on. I kicked him out of the house. I'm just making sure.

Crazy. But there's, they have this one slow-mo shot of the line during this one tense part. And it's just Wilfork's belly hanging out, hanging out. And, and the camera pans back to see the whole line. And he was just like,

dad, I can't believe how big is that guy like he just couldn't believe i was like huge that's vince wolford it's a nose tackle those tackles are big they have to hold up two guys for three seconds right well everybody else comes in but anyway uh but in the 90s snoop's doing the chronic with dre but nobody knows it's going to be the chronic yet was he telling you about that? First he did deep cover. Oh yeah, that's right.

So he did the single. Yeah, yeah. He did deep cover. Which by the way is a great one. It is a great one. And remember like the reason, like Warren G, Nate Dogg, Rest in Peace, and Snoop was a group called 213 kind of before they started that. So they were a Long Beach group trying to make it.

So Warren was the producer, Nate was the singer, and Snoop was the rapper. And Warren is actually the reason how Dre found out about Snoop because that's his stepbrother. Yeah. And that's how the magic happened with him and Dre and then getting on the undercover cop, you know, soundtrack. And then from then on, that was it. and Dre and then getting on the undercover cop, you know, soundtrack.

And then from then on, it was, that was it. In my NBA book that I wrote, I have a whole section about how Robert Horry was the Nate dog of the NBA, which I'm really proud of. It's one of my great analogies. How do you relate that Nate dog to, to Robert Horry?

Cause Robert Horry was one of the great role players of all time. Right. He wasn't, he wasn't a superstar, but if you put him with the superstars, he knew his spot, and he would do a couple great things, and he just made contenders better. Now- That's what Nate Dogg did. Well, Nate actually kind of took off because he was kind of the go-to guy for all the hooks. Right. On all the shows.

So you can say that about Robert Horry with the Rockets in the 90s. He was like Hakeem's second best teammate probably. Right. And everybody started going to Nate Dogg for, if you wanted a bomb hook or one of the best hooks, Nate Dogg was the guy before all these other guys started singing on rap tracks. So you think he was even a little bit better than Robert Horry? Well, he kind of had his own lane.

Like, I don't know. Like, I think Robert Horry had his own lane because he was a big shot Horry, right? He was known for the big shot in the big moment, right? Big shots and good defense. And good defense. Guarded the other team's best forward. I think they're kind of the same.

That was a good – I was really proud of that one. Yeah, that was pretty good. I'd say when Nate Dogg was involved, it was never really a bad thing. Nobody was ever like, oh, no, Nate Dogg's involved in this song. This isn't going to work out. Nah. Or you're going to have a hit.

Either one. Yeah. I love it. I mean, one of my favorite albums from that era was the above the rim soundtrack. Oh yeah. Which kind of fell between, between the,

who was your favorite song on that? Big Pimpin'. Big Pimpin'. Yeah. I think I like. That's my, my single favorite Snoop minute from Snoop in any song is Big Pimpin'. Big Pimpin'. Yeah. I think I like... That's my single favorite Snoop minute from Snoop in any song is Big Pimpin'. Big Pimpin'.

He's just like... I don't know. Snoop. It's just when Snoop had it going, I don't know what the... It's hard to talk about it like the same way we talk about football quarterbacks or something because a lot of it depends on taste. Right. But I think certain guys like Snoop, I think Biggie was like this.

Just like for 45-second little riffs, there's a couple people that just stood out. And Snoop was definitely one of those people. I think it was his delivery, his voice, his sound. I think Jay-Z's like that. His sound was different. Yeah. Jay-Z doesn't get credit for that. Like he could take, if he just gave somebody a paragraph oh yeah jay's a beast jay because

now people think of him as the mega billionaire jay-z but it's like he's still a paragraph of lyrics boom he's still one of the coldest lyrics lyricists in the game i hope people remember that yeah you got his new album four four four no because i don't have title i'm waiting what is it come out on the real stuff here? It's on now. You can get it anywhere. I'm ready. You can download it. Yeah, you can download it. It's pretty, it's a mature, developed, seasoned Jay-Z.

Seasoned Jay-Z? And it's still one of the best. He's still lyrically doing his thing. How about Kendrick? Where do you stand on him? Kendrick's the best right now. He's the best right now. I just went to Kendrick Lamar's concert.

Shout out to Top Dog Entertainment. Top Dog is his label, a friend of mine, and they show me love, take care of me, VIP. And that's one of the best concerts I've been to. I love concerts. I love music. I love going to the venues, and I looking at the the screens and the stage setup i love everything about the concerts and that was one of the best i'm waiting for him to do something special over the next nine months he did no i'm talking about with the current

environment or where the world is i thought his last album was, you know, right. He's definitely has his own lane. He's super creative. He's distinct. He's, I agree. I think it's probably the best right now. He's doing a lot in the community. Um, he's doing a lot in the city of Compton where he's from. He's giving back. He's definitely giving back. Dre is giving back. And I think that's important because his message to the young kids in, in the inner city areas, which you're familiar with L.A., is that it doesn't matter where you come from. Right. And what you're going through, that if you just keep believing in your dream, you keep working hard and you don't get sidetracked by the negative stuff, that you can make it. And he's a kid that actually did exactly that.

I think he's done the best of anybody who became famous of keeping that without getting sidetracked by the other stuff. I'm talking about right now, this moment. Music, I think, could have a difference the same way like you look at the late 60s and the 70s when Vietnam and Watergate, all that stuff, and music became this cathartic thing. It kind of brings everything together. The music and the lyrics and certain songs, and it kind of captured it.

I think Kendrick could do that for stuff like what we saw last week in Virginia. Yeah, I think he's done that. I think he's done that in Emperor of a Butterfly, some of his other stuff. I agree. I think if you listen to it, listen to his lyrics. I'm talking about the Trump twisted part of it. Yeah. That's the part that is sitting there right now.

You know, I mean, yeah, I mean. He's certainly the most qualified. He is, and there's a few other guys out there. I would say Kanye is one of those guys that, and I know it's a little different, but somebody who would attack a certain issue like that, you know, and wouldn't care about it. Kanye is my favorite.

I just don't i don't i've lost the faith in him to think that way at this point because it seems like he's more interested in in fashion and i don't know what he's interested in with all creative geniuses there's something off yeah with them he's a good example there's something a little off and the creativeness just doesn't probably stop or end with music with guys like him. Like Kanye's rare because he's a he's a hundred percenter. You know what that is? Yeah.

A hundred percenter is a guy who can create a beat, make the music and then write all the lyrics to it. There's not a lot of people in music like that. So that just tells you how creative he really is. So his creativeness goes beyond just music. Like he has a vision. He can see certain things that are going to happen or take place. He's a visionary as far as fashion and those different things. Like every shoe deal he's done has sold out.

Yeah. Like nobody would buy Yeezys if his name was on on those shoes those those shoes are just regular shoes if he wasn't attached to it that the Defiant Ones did a great thing like Dre was obviously wired like that too as we found out when he sold beats for a gajillion dollars but yeah and he's another one who was like how does this translate to what is he what is he what's the best thing dr dre does he makes music right beats it was genius for them to come out with those beats phone those beats headphones like that's what he does like that's dre living in that living like for everybody buying a pair of beats that's dre living in those headsets yeah you can you can feel dre you can hear dre like that's that's just him

perfection right so when you when you put yourself into something and you're a part of it people tend to gravitate towards it i thought the best thing that that doc i love that documentary and i keep watching it and picking up different pieces that obviously my DNA, I've been involved in a bunch of them. And it's just really hard to make something that good. And it took five years and they spent a lot of money on it and it was worth it. But one of the things I loved about it, it's really about passion and what you believe in and what you gravitate to and caring about something so much that it consumes you and that's what i loved about the part with how much he cared about sound right and how ivy comes in and they play in the chronic and he listens to it and instead of just listening to the music he's like what the fuck

the sound the sound's incredible i can't like he's a producer jimmy was jimmy was an engineer yeah so he understood that the sound is everything like if you give me a dope sound and beat yeah i don't give a fuck what you're saying over it right you got me if you got me moving and jumping and dancing to it then you got me whatever you say is going to sound masterful. Right. So that's an engineer hooking up with an engineer slash producer, which Jimmy kind of was a producer as well. And that's the connection. It was beautiful. He heard the music.

And then when you have the dope lyricists on top of that, like. It's so funny that they're shopping the chronic around and they can't get anybody to bite on it it's a completed album that was because of the drama around it it was the lyrics all that stuff and people wasn't ready for that jimmy comes in he doesn't even care he's just like oh it sounds great oh my who did this you did this yourself it's such a cool part but it's like i i've obviously loved dr jay forever since uh you know talking almost 30 years but didn't really know that much about him because he's so private right and when i heard they were doing this my thought was well he's he's not going to give them anything he's gonna but it was the opposite it was like he

enters in the world and my takeaway and i don't know obviously in documentaries you can shape whatever perception you want my takeaway was like this is a guy who's like trapped in this world where he just loves sounds and beats and lyrics and making music and they would have these shots of him in front of his board and you can't fake that the way he was reacting how he comes alive right he's just losing it and right i don't know going back to sports like i think those are the guys that succeed in sports too the people that are breathing it like brady he's 40 now the guy loves to win he just all he wants to do is win football games and come through at the end of games and that's who he is he breathes it he consumes it and what i learned a long time ago is if you want to be great or you

want to be consistent then you have to do everything in your power every part of of of you have has to be consumed in what you're doing and he understands. And he kind of understood that when he came in, um, at an early age, that's why he was ready. Like the moment wasn't too big for him. He watched a group of men do that day in and day out. The Ty Laws, the Brewskis, myself, all, all the different guys. He watched and he understood that. And he came in with a chip on his shoulder. He was a six round pick. He was a guy who was passed over, who should have been a starter at Michigan, who wasn't. So he was hungry and he started at a young age, understanding what it took. He watched us come in and be in the weight room at six in the morning. He watched us come in and be in the weight room at 6 in the morning. He watched us watching film afterwards as a group.

He watched us not leave, not rushing out of the building. Like he watched us compete over who drunk the most water, who worked out the most that week. Every little thing that we did in that locker room, he absorbed and he understood it. And he was a part of it, more importantly. So to see what he's doing now, taking everything to an entire whole nother level,

he's just took that game and took it to another level. And that's why he continues to have success and to play at a high level and to have the hunger for the game. Most guys get complacent. Let's take a quick break to talk about MyBookie. Ever since I started writing a column and doing my podcast, people have been asking me for advice for whatever reason. Sometimes they wonder what team to bet on. You got the Patriots or the Steelers?

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When Mo Lewis hurt Drew, Brady comes in. What's the attitude of the team? Didn't matter for us on defense. We were just like, we got to go out and not give them anything. We can't let this team score points. Did you think there was any way, was there any scenario in your head where you're like, uh-oh, Brady's got this job. He's not giving it back now.

No, it was too early. Yeah. Because at that point, we didn't know what Brady was. Nobody did. Nobody could sit here and say, oh, we knew what Brady was got this job. He's not giving it back now. No, it was too early. Yeah. Because at that point, we didn't know what Brady was. Nobody did. Nobody could sit here and say, oh, we knew what Brady was going to be. Maybe Belichick. He's the one who didn't make the change when Drew got healthy. But nobody sat over there and said, oh, we know what Brady is.

I remember his third start was the San Diego game. They came back. And that was the first time I think all the, all the Pats fans at least were like, Hmm, what do we have here? You know? Cause it wasn't great up until then. Like this first five games or whatever was just all right. Yeah.

You beat the Colts, but it was like the Colts beat themselves more than anything and then gets killed in Miami. Then you go to San Diego and that, that was the first time. But I remember, I mean, living there was crazy that year because it turned into blitz over versus brady almost immediately yeah and everybody outside for the outside the media pick sides they get they and it was one of the great sports radio

topics of all time you had to be on one side or the other right there was no well i think it's like are you blitz or are you brady and that was it. And I was Brady the whole time, just for the record. Why? You didn't know what Brady was. I thought Bledsoe. It hurts me to say this because I love Drew Bledsoe, but I really thought that he had become severely overrated those last couple years because he couldn't move.

I didn't think. I thought there was technically neither one of them can move well true true i thought there was there was stuff there was subtle stuff brady was doing like play action and just the efficiency of what he was doing felt different and it felt like for what that team needed made more sense because we had a great defense um we had a really good coach and it was like, he made more sense for that team. I didn't know he was going to become what he became.

Right. But, but so it just, it seemed like blood. So it was heading in the wrong way. Taking a lot of hits in the nineties. He had just signed a hundred million dollar. I remember worrying about that contract.

I remember worrying about it. So wait, go backwards a year belichick comes in pretty weird circumstances quit the jets have to give up a first round pick for him uh not the most gregarious guy being interviewed um we were used to that though yeah so i was gonna say like he comes in you start working with him is it like parcells's parcells's uh baby clone uh what was different they were a little different but he had his his side to him and his demeanor and the way he coached and remember he was there too in 96 he was on the defensive back special assistant defensive, so he was there alongside Al Groh, our defensive coordinator.

But he had his way. And you could tell immediately that he was going to incorporate his style of football and his style of player. That's good for you. And if you wasn't on board, yeah, well, you didn't know. I knew how I was, so i'm glad i was one of his guys um but if you wasn't on board you didn't fit that prototype you were out of there yeah there's only there's only a small group of guys he kept everybody else was i mean it's like a revolving

door guys were out of there it was a certain type of guy there There's no question. Right. I mean, he loves like, and I think both coaches in the same, they love a really tough football player. They want somebody that's, that's tough, not just physically, but mentally. Like when things start to break down, you don't break down, you don't lose focus. They wanted somebody who made smart decisions, who didn't cost the team and do dumb stuff on a consistent basis. Yeah. They wanted somebody that had good work ethic. And that was key because if you didn't work or you didn't do extra work, they didn't take to you. It's the most underrated.

It doesn't sound like it's a talent but it actually is work ethic is its own it's hard yeah it's not guess what not fun to work out not fun to lift weights not fun to get up at six in the morning all the little things man it's it's it was so it was it was so much work to get to the games on Sunday. Yeah. People don't understand, like, Sunday was a relief. Yeah. Like, Sunday was our fun time. It was our dessert.

Like, it was the best part of us being on a team was Sundays. Yeah. Because that was just fun day for us. It was just let it all go. The work to get to Sunday, if you're going to be great, that's where you win. And we realized that early. And I think that's the effect Belichick had on us as players, that you win the football games during the week. You win the football games before the game gets here.

That's going to determine how you perform or how you play or if you're going to win or lose. So we develop an attitude and a sense of thought that going into Sunday's game, we knew we were going to kick somebody's ass before we even lined up. We just knew it. And we can line up and go out and look at guys and watch them. And we knew we already had them before we even, the ball was snapped. You must tell your daughters play sports. Mine does too. I was, when they're, I don't want to go to practice. It kills me. You give the speech, right? And they don't. Hey, this is the part that matters. They don't listen. They still don't

listen. They don't listen. You know, my older daughter's starting to get it. She's 13 playing volleyball. She's starting to get it. She understands. And I'm talking to her. I'm like, baby, you got to do this. You got to work. And when she first started, I was like, this club volleyball costs a lot of money. Yeah. Now you could play at school and have fun and it won't cost me nothing. But if you want to do it for real, we're going to do it for real. Like you're going to work. I'm investing in you. You're right. I'm going to work. I'm going to support you, but you're going to work and you're going to be good at it. I want you to be good at it. I don't want you to waste our time or money. If you want to do it just for fun and you're not serious, you can just play at school.

So I gave her the choice. I was like, what do you want to do? I was like, do you like it or do you love it? She's like, dad, I love it. I said, okay. Okay. Then we're all in. Yeah. Then don't complain about our Monday practice because your legs hurt. We're all in.

We're going. Belichick, the ultimate Belichick games for me, 03 Colts, 04 Colts. I guess the playoffs. So it was like January 04, January 05. At home in there, right? At home. Yeah. Was that the three. So it was like January 04, January 05. At home in there, right? At home. The three pick.

Was that the three interception game from Ty? That first one was, yeah. But I felt like we broke Manning by the end of that last playoff game. Bad weather both times. Just so physical and then of course Manning goes to a whole other level. But it really did feel

like we broke him by the end of that last Colts playoff game. It was like, that's it. We figured this guy out. He's not tough enough. We're in his head. You would think that, man. That guy just didn't. No.

Didn't happen. No. He's rare. Was he the scariest QB you played against? Yeah. He's one of. Give me the list. I mean, I had three Hall of Famers in my division. I had

Jim Kelly, I had Dan Marino, and I had Peyton. And if you count Brady, he'll be one. That's just in my division. I played against Aikman, played against Elway, played against Montana, played against Young. And then you drifted into the 2000s. You got a little Breeze in

there. Breeze, Vic. I can go down to Vic in Atlanta. Well, Vic's got to be the scariest one. Air Vic. Yeah, you got a little breeze in there. Breeze, Vic. Like I can go down a Vic in Atlanta. Vic's gotta be the scariest one. Yeah. Air Vic. Yeah. Yeah. You're not chasing him.

Think about it. Warren Moon. I mean, I played against all these guys. So it, I think I played against the greatest quarterbacks ever. I don't think there will ever be like a span of great quarterbacks that anybody will play against that I did. Yeah.

That's true. You did bridge three different eras, basically. Did you play? You, Roethlisberger, you played against? Ben. Big Ben. You're not tackling him. You need some help tackling him.

I tackled him, and he threw me off a couple times. He's a monster. He's a linebacker playing quarterback. What's the worst type of quarterback to try to play against the the michael vick type or the rothlisberger type um both i mean it's different because the scramblers you can hope can just keep them in the pocket makes a mistake scramble ben could run and he was strong yeah you know and he can avoid and he can you can hit him and he can still throw the ball 30 yards,

40 yards down the field. So Vic, you had to rush him a certain way because if you didn't cautiously rush, keep him a certain way, he changed every dimension. The way we went and prepared to rush a quarterback, we had to change for him. Because if you didn't contain him or keep him in the pocket, you keep him in the pocket and he's throwing over those Giants,

that's what you want. When he's out on the edge scrambling and doing all that, I mean, he's a big play waiting to happen. So you can't win. And there are certain guys that didn't move. Like Jim Kelly did not move out of the pocket. He'd take every hit you issued. Marino, too.

Well, Marino couldn't move. Marino had to do little sidesteps. But he had one of the fastest releases ever. Yeah. So there are certain guys that you had to play different. Marino, the scariest of my lifetime is still Elway 1A, Marino 1B. Just because they killed the Patriots forever. But Marino, the release, it was just once just because they killed the Patriots forever. Right.

But Marino, the release, it was just once he got in the groove, it's just you just felt helpless. This one time I was hitting Marino and I swear we were going down to the ground and he flicked the ball with his wrist for about a 15 yard out. I mean, he had one of the fastest releases and I watched it and I thought I had a sack. Like I got up and I got to, you know, feeling myself and I'm I had a sack like I got up and I got the you know feeling myself and I'm looking down the field I'm like he got that out like his release was the best in my opinion out of any quarterback I've ever played against his release do you agree

that Brady is the goat now or do you think that nobody can be the GOAT? I think I do think Brady is the GOAT. I think when you talk about playing at a certain level, what, 17 years in now? Going on 18? It's unprecedented. It's up there. It's ridiculous. And you're still pretty much – you could have won the MVP. It was between you and Matt.

He missed four games is the only reason. And some people say he still was the MVP. He was the MVP of the Super Bowl again, and he broke records in the Super Bowl. The rules have obviously gone in his favor the last seven, eight years because if football was played the way it was played in 03 and 04 i don't think any qb could play a lot of players couldn't play the game yeah yeah this is not just quarterbacks there are a lot of players that to my opinion are not tough guys that wouldn't last like you get away you get away with so much like you know they they put the chuck rule in because of us what we

did to indianapolis they can play you said they It was really just Bill Polian who's bitter. Pretty much. Do you have to do TV with him? No. No, you guys are on different channels. I respect him. No, yeah, he's on the show. I don't respect him. I think he's a crybaby.

I respect him because of what he put together. You know. I respect him too. But I didn't like every time we did something or. Yeah. I mean, it happens when you i mean that and that's that's one of the reasons why people people don't like the way we play because we would find regardless of what it is we would start doing stuff and then they would come up with these rules i remember the rams game

the the rams game nobody remembers is it was like week 10 that same year, the first Super Bowl season. Yeah. Sunday night, Pats lost, but it was super physical. It was the first time as a fan I was like, what do we have here? This team might actually be something. That was 2001, right? It was 2001.

Yeah. It was a Sunday night. I'm going to say it was week 10, and you went toe-to-toe, and the Rams were like this unstoppable team. I think we fumbled and gave them the ball back. Yeah, you screwed up. You know what's special about that game that everybody talks about what the players do? We remember it.

We walked off the field saying that we're definitely going to see them again. And when we see them, that we was going to whoop their ass. We know the recipe. Yeah. Yeah. We was going to whoop their ass. Yeah. We said that as a team.

Like, if we play them again, it's on. Just because of how, I mean, they were the greatest show, you know, hearing the greatest show on turf and all those different things. And they were a great team. But we said it. We said it in the locker room. I can play back the conversations in my head with the guys.

Like, we're going to see them again. Yeah. And when we do, it's going to be a different outcome. With the new rules, that team might have been unstoppable. If you're basically just not allowed to hit them and do anything. Well, you can with them five yards. Yeah, I don't know what you do in that scenario. Because Warner was out of his mind.

Falk was at the peak of Falk. And they had receivers that could do stuff. And you know what? They had an underrated defense that people don't talk about. But they had one of the top defenses in the league. I don't think they even in the second half, we barely moved the ball. Yeah. They had one of the top defenses.

People never talk about that defense. Was it you who did the penalty when we were going to win the Super Bowl, but then they called the back the touchdown down the sideline? That was. You threw down Marshall Falk, right? I feel bad about that. That was to Bucky Jones who got the fumble recovery, took it to the house. Yeah.

The backside, we're on the backside. We had a play called, we were like playing one funnel, which means me and Bruschi, we have the backs and tight ends. Falk was offset to me. If he goes out to the flat, I got him. If he goes inside, Brew has him. He did an angle route, started out to me. Then he went inside.

I look over. Brewski took off. He was chasing Kurt because they start to scramble the other way. So Brew took off. So I was like, I'm not going to let him run free and he'd be the guy. So I made an executive decision. I tackled him. But half the time they don't call that, though.

Not on the backside of the play. It has nothing to do. It didn't affect the play at all. I was surprised. And it was late. It was late. It was a little fishy. I mean, Tabucky was like 25 yards down the field.

And I'm looking at the ref like, don't do it. Don't do it. And it just seems like that was the slowest moment of my career. The flag just comes out. I'm like, are you serious? It was a terrible call. I'm like, it didn't even affect the play. No.

Like, that game wouldn't have been close if that would have happened. I was sitting in the sideline where Vinatieri, I was in the end zone where vinatieri hit the game winner you were did you jump up oh my god crazy but he was running down the sideline with our we're gonna win the super bowl and then the flag 10 seconds later it's like what everyone had already celebrated it and that was where all the boston dna. You're like, oh, we're going to lose. Here we go. Was I the GOAT at that point? No, the GOAT was, oh, we're getting screwed again like we got screwed with Sugar Bear Hamilton. It was more of a bad call.

I don't even know if they replayed it on the whatever. You were too good to be the GOAT. Nobody saw it. I was surprised, but I did look at the guy. I was like, don't do it. I was like, oh, shit. It is crazy that that team won the Super Bowl with how – I wouldn't call it an offensive powerhouse, you know.

No, it wasn't. It's just even, like, being able to go – I think Brady only threw for 112 yards or a couple of touchdowns. 14 points in the first half, and then that was it. Yeah, I mean, it wasn't. Troy Brown was really the only kind of game-breaking skill guy that team had. The 0-3, 0-4 teams. The 0-4 team with Dylan, I think, was kind of the most well-rounded team.

Well, the offense changed. Yeah. That was just a great team. You know, when Moss got there, you know, when they had Moss in the West. 0-7, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, the offense quickly caught up. What year did you leave? I left in, was it 05 or 06?

Yeah, you left after the third Super Bowl. Yeah. Belichick. No, I stayed one more year. I stayed one more year. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, you were there for all three. We lost to Denver in the playoffs, I believe it was.

Jake Plummer, Ben Watson FOMO, the Ben Watson strip that they said went out at the one-inch line when it went out of the end zone. When the defensive back ran it all the way down. Yeah, yeah. Champion. Belichick cuts the cord with his vets one to three years early. That's been his move for two decades. And for the most part,

you can't argue with the results. I mean, obviously, it's been one of the most successful franchises in any sport. You were one of those vets. Yeah. We were talking before we taped this about how at some point when you're a vet

and you're near the tail end, like Vince Woolfork's another good example, Laura Malloy, Ty Lott, I mean, the list goes on and on. You almost have more value outside the Patriots than you do on the Patriots because this outside team's looking and they're like, we need a vet. We need a leader. We need somebody who's been in some wars and won some rings. We need that guy. He's worth more to us. And that's how this keeps happening. Are you 5% bitter about it like all these years later or not bitter at all?

I'm not bitter. I understand it was a business. And it did hurt to leave because I wanted to retire a Patriot, which I ended up doing after I was done. But I do understand the business aspect of the game and how things work. And, you know, in my situation, it was like we couldn't communicate on a number. Yeah. Well, yes, Cleveland coming in with a big number. But I didn't even entertain that until I figured there was like, they were,

they were waiting pretty much to the market soften. And Pioli was the GM at the time. And he understood like right before that, remember Ty Long had gotten an offer from the Patriots and he said it was disrespectful. He went in, you know, he went in with,

in, in the papers and it became a big thing. So Pioli was a little cautious with me because of the respect that they didn't want to disrespect me. And I would have stayed for less, but it was just no communication on what that less was. So time ringing out, free agency drying up, you got to make moves. You got to move around. You got to let people know. And some people thought we had a deal on the table. That was put out there too, which we didn't. So we had to let people know that, yeah, this is my first choice.

I want to stay here. I want to be a Patriot. This is home. But at the end of the day, there's nothing, there's no movement here. So I have to go out and at least visit other teams. And out of respect, you know, it was a good fit in Cleveland because Romeo was there, ran the same defenses. I knew what he was trying to create there, the culture,

and what he was trying to instill in the locker room and all those different things. And the number was right. But before I even entertained that again, you know, my people called the Patriots out of respect. Like, Hey, this is what they're, this is what they're offering. This is what they're doing before I entertain a deal or signed or did anything. Um, and you know, the conversation was, Hey, we, we wasn't close to that number and we understand, but we can't do that. So at that point I had three

Superbowls. It's my 12th season. That's the thing. It's, it's a little like Kyrie Irving right now. It's my 12th season. Right. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to play. How many more years am I going to play? You know, that was a four year deal. Um, actually a three year deal. When you have the ring or the rings in your case, it's the thought process changes a little. It does because a lot of players, you want to get paid. You want to maximize your talent and get paid as much as possible. But if you're one of these guys, like let's say Randy Moss, why he went to the Patriots or some of these guys now like Darrell Revis, who's made a ton of money. Now you look and say, I want to go somewhere where I can win a ring.

That's why we play the game. We play the game to win Lombardis and to make money. They go hand in hand. So once you do one, you definitely want to do the other. Or if you can do them simultaneously at the same time, that's a perfect scenario. It's a perfect world. But because of the success you have on a team like Seattle, like some of these other teams,

you can't retain all the talented players all the time. You can't keep everybody together. Especially the cap is designed for you to lose these guys. It's changed now. Back in the day, yeah, you could retain and keep everybody. But how does that hurt the camaraderie on a team when year after year this big important veteran is leaving and you just know like, well, I'm giving it my all.

We're trying to ring a ring. But when my time's going to come, it's going to come. He's going to get rid of me. I can honestly say that it happened to guys before me. It happened to Drew. It happened to a lawyer. Yeah. And lawyer was a little different because of Rodney coming in.

Yeah. Different dynamic. I really didn't think about it. My thing is that I'm just going to play at a high level and compete. So I'm going to give it all here. Like right now, this is where I am. And then if my time, if it comes up to a situation where my time is now, then I'm going to have some value somewhere else. I get that. We heard Brady talk about that in an explicit interview that, you know, he would love to play there forever and be whatever, but they brought up, well, what if, you know, you've seen other veterans leave and other guys go and they got this young quarterback behind you he's like gbg our our our mindset is i'm gonna show you that i could still do it somewhere else too

i get it may not be you guys are like boxers yeah i get it may not be here but yeah i'm gonna go somewhere else and still play and it's not the same and you don't want to do that i didn't want to do that but that's the nature of the business it's hard to see in a browns jersey i will on behalf of all the pats fans i feel comfortable saying it was it was it was not right it was different but i had a lot of respect for yeah i mean it's how football goes you almost every time the guy's gonna end his career on a different team it's just the way it goes right um i agree with you that i think there's like a five percent chance brady retires on a different team yeah because i think out of anybody he's

gonna have a lot of trouble walking away and i think he's in great shape i think he thinks he can play till he's 45 i think he said that but i think realistically he's smart enough to know if he's hurting the team. Like he's so unselfish and it's never about him. I know, but he's not even close to hurting the team. But that's what I'm saying. But if he gets to that point, then he will walk away. But when you said that about Peyton Manning in Denver and he was ready to come back another year, he was terrible that last year. His body was broken down.

He was. He would have taken, like if the Rams had said, come be our QB for a year, he was terrible that last year. His body was broken down. He was. He would have taken, like if the Rams had said, come be our QB for a year, he would have done it. I think he was done. I think he rode off into the sunset. And he knew that. Let's give Tate the tie-breaking vote. Tate, you believe that? What?

You think Manny would have come back for one more year? After he won a Super Bowl. The Super Bowl got it for him. It sucked. Okay. There you go. He won. If he didn't win a Super Bowl,

maybe, but the way... He needed a tie. He knew that it wasn't because of him, either, why they won that Super Bowl. That's got to kill you. That's got to be tough. He knew that. Who was the MVP? It was Von Miller. You knew in that game... They won despite meaning. You knew in that game, at the end of the day, okay,

everybody was like, bro, you have nothing else to prove. You must have been excited to see Von Miller get a Super Bowl. You must feel kinship with these defensive dudes. I mean, I love Von Miller. Like he's one of the best guys, man. He's an animal. Who's the best who ever played your position? Outside linebacker, Lawrence Taylor.

Who's second? That's tough. Because I think everyone agrees LT is the best. I'm not just, because I don't, like, the system I played in, I didn't just rush. Yeah. I rushed and I dropped maybe 30, 35% of the time, so it takes away from my sacks. Yeah. So when you talk about a player like that

somebody who does it all it's it's it's hard so you think there's too much specialization no a true outside linebacker does it all he's just not a pass rusher so i would have to find a guy who did all that like andre tippett was one of those guys that could do it all in the coverage von miller drops in pass rushes like on third down his hand is in the dirt yeah certain you know certain formations dictate whether he's in coverage or not um there's other guys like derrick thomas was one of my guys he didn't drop he didn't drop a lot but you know he's just he's special and that's who kind kind of Von Miller reminds me of.

But a true outside linebacker, in my opinion, does everything. What was your best win? Probably the 2001 Super Bowl. Two reasons. One, I was coming off back surgery. And when you're sitting in the hospital bed off back surgery you kind of start to have doubts if you're going to be the same player if you're going to be able to play again yeah and that was a little scary for me and to be able to rehab that whole

summer come back and be in the super bowl and make plays and and win it was special. Two, nobody gave us a chance. That was the ultimate nobody believes in us team. Nobody. Because you had two weeks the week before with the Steelers, same thing. Nobody. They're playing in their Super Bowl party. That was great for us. Yeah.

We loved it. That's the most underrated factor, right? Yeah. It was. And we fed off that so much. People just don't understand. There's certain things you shouldn't do to teams before you play them to motivate. We heard about the Rams getting sized for a double ring.

We heard about Pittsburgh making their plans and all the stuff that they had going on. Our coach is masterful at using everything on the outside and just feeding us all week and just burning us up. And there's so much that we wanted to say and talk during that week or being in the meeting, but we knew that wasn't us. And it was game time. We just unleashed it all. That was the curse of the 19-0 Pats, was the one time they didn't have that chip

because they became the team that everybody else was saying nobody believes in us. Everybody believes in that Patriots team, and it was like it flipped on Belichick. How do you motivate a team that's trying to go 19-0? I think he finds ways. I think he still finds ways because every game is like, you know, we're not talking about 19-0. We're not talking about the undefeated. you still find ways because every game is like, you know, we're not talking about 19-0. We're not talking about the undefeated.

And then when you're in the game. It's not realistic. When you're in the game, it's like nobody believes you guys can go undefeated. You flip it. Nobody believes you guys are going to do this. There's only one team that's ever done it, and nobody believes in you. Yeah. And then you sit here like, we got to go out and make history we got to go out and do something then it turns into nobody believes david tyree could catch a pass off his helmet

and one of the strongest guys i played with at safety rodney harrison wasn't able to jar it off like yeah come on rodney harrison like he was ripping at it. Like I just don't understand why that bought. I may or may have watched that play 790 times and I don't understand it. I don't think it could be recreated ever. No. Where are your rings? In a safety deposit box? They are safe. Yeah. They're in the safe. Yeah. Everybody tries to win a ring for years and years and then they just put them in a box. What are you going to do? I mean, those rings are so big now for for new england like you just can't especially brady has five rings like you can't even close your your hands with with those rings he could have like the sickest necklace of all time if he wanted the sickest gold chain with the five rings

he's walk around like a you can get you can get you can get tribesmen yeah you can get the little pendants and do all that and usually it was for the women but you can make a dope chain but that's that's somebody you'll probably never see wear his ring except for at the ring ceremony or when you when you when you tell him he has to bring it or like a like a special like you're wearing a very nice earring right now not a not a ring thing if they had done a super bowl earring but you never and the when you have that many yeah people know you have it's a great problem you don't have to wear them people know it like if you have one like i see guys with one and no like i respect like i don't care how many you want if you win one you want one like that's the best thing ever but the guys that i see with one they wear them all the time yeah the guys that

i see with multiple rings they never wear them because people know. The guys that I see with multiple rings, they never wear them because people know you've done it. And it's a little gaudy to walk around with multiple Super Bowl rings on all the time. You had the three, but you also had the 21-game winning streak, which I don't think Belichick gets enough credit for. Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. 21 straight.

I know. It was a big deal at the time. Still a big deal for me. Yeah. That's a special number. There's a lot of close wins in that streak, too. Most games are won by three points or less in the NFL. That team, that stretch, I've never seen a team that was just-

What year was that stretch? It was 03 and 04 together. 03 and 04, yeah, together. But it was like, that team was just like, if it's fourth quarter and it's a three-point game, we're winning. That's the attitude I was telling you about earlier, that we went into those games, like, no matter what happened during the game, we knew in our mind, we're at the end of the day, we're going to win. Last question, just for the Colts fans. Did you, did you fake the injury in the fourth quarter? No. One thing about being injured, if you've ever been injured, the one thing you hate is being injured and not being out there and you will never fake it because

if it happens for real, you're bummed out. And I got my knee caught up in the turf. And if I was faking, I would have came in the very next play. Remember, I left out, and I didn't come back to the fourth play. Okay. So I was on the sideline trying to work it out, but I was fine. Because the Colts fans. I know. 38-34, fourth down stop on James, and then you ran 55 yards with your arm up.

You didn't see the little limp. You were flying on that celebration. I was, man. My whole thing is, so what if he did fake the injury? We won the game. Isn't the goal to win the game? I would have came back in the very next play if I was faking. Typical sour grapes.

Why would I sit out two extra plays? Typical sour grapes from the Colts fans. The same city that tried to get the flake gate going. We're on to you the Colts fans. The same city that tried to get the Flakegate going. We're out to you, Colts fans. And they got the Chuck rule. They got the rules changed. I still enjoy every Pat's Colts game.

I enjoyed all the competitions with the Colts, man. We had some good battles. Willie, this was fun. Good times. Can I ask you a question? Yeah, ask me a question. You know I'm going to ask you. I'm newly and fresh on Instagram.

And I see you looking over there. Can we check his Instagram account? Because I don't have a lot of followers. I'm new at this. I'm going to follow you as soon as we're done. I don't know. I follow like my daughter and like 20 people. I'm boring too.

But I just need, you know, you're like a big time. You're like a big deal. You're like a big deal. I don't have three rings. You're still a big deal. What's your Instagram handle? At Willie McGinnis. All right.

I'm going to follow you. We'll pump it up. Okay. Thanks, Willie. Thank you, man. This was fun. It was a pleasure. Thanks so much to Willie. Thanks to SeatGeek, our presenting sponsor.

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