The Binge Cases: Denise Didn't Come Home - I Am Rama | 8. Public Opinion

Episode Date: August 3, 2021

As Rama’s image took a hit in the public sphere, his students circled the wagons around their teacher. In something of a last ditch effort to win over the media, Rama accepts an invitation to appear on Dateline.  A Neon Hum Media and Sony Music Entertainment production. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts to binge all episodes now or listen weekly wherever you get your podcasts. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As a kid growing up in Chicago, there was one horror movie I was too scared to watch. It was called Candyman. It was about this supernatural killer who would attack his victims if they said his name five times into a bathroom mirror. But did you know that the movie Candyman was partly inspired by an actual murder? I was struck by both how spooky it was, but also how outrageous it was. Listen to Candyman, the true story behind the bathroom mirror murder, wherever you get your podcasts. So much of Rama's story is obscured by time and perspective.

Who he was depends on where you were, what you were looking for. Now, 30 years later, sifting through these memories, piecing them together, it's hard to know what to make of them. Are they clear recollections? Or were they shaped decades ago by conflict, seen through a more emotional lens?

Makes it hard to know for sure who Rama really was. What exactly happened? What's true? And so any hard evidence, facts, concrete, verifiable detail, it's invaluable. There's one person I talked to who had just that. They didn't want to be recorded or even described in any identifiable way, so I'll call them Jordan. Suffice it to say, back in the 90s, Jordan came to know a lot about Rama, his students, the group's inner workings, and about Cannes. Jordan was a journalist, now retired from an established media organization. And Jordan kept

their records, basically a box of papers, all those years ago. As far as I know, these documents haven't seen the light of day in three decades, until Jordan shared them with me a few months ago. I printed them out and started to read them. All right, what do we got? Here's a booklet. It says, Criminal on religious freedom. An autopsy report. It's a Rama student who died of an overdose.

Some documents seem to be about Mark Lertzema. And a news release from the Royal Teton Ranch. Looks like some stuff about Joe Simhart, that deprogrammer. There is a lot to unpack here. Once I read through all of it, it became clear. Jordan's documents filled in a lot of blanks, especially about how Rama and his students, once they were under fire, got organized.

In the face of media scrutiny and allegations of being called a cold, Rama and his students seemingly tried everything at their disposal. Public relations, lawyers, and a final Hail Mary, letting the press all the way in. Would any of it work? From Neon Hum Media and Smokescreen, this is I Am Rama. Chapter 8. Public Opinion. By the early 90s, Rama was getting a lot of negative attention. But he and students didn't just accept it. The people I've talked to about those years made it clear that, to them at least, it seemed the outside world just fundamentally misunderstood Rama. The media, the accusers, indie programmers, and all the concerned parents, they just had it wrong. Rama wasn't a bad guy, and his students most definitely weren't

in a cult. He was a teacher. They were his students. That was it. Simple. Over the years, those early protestations turned into a more organized effort. What I found in the box of documents that Jordan sent me illustrates how hard Rama's team fought back. And I want to share some of those documents with you. I should say before we get into them, I'm sharing these not as evidence of the underlying content, but to demonstrate the tone of the conflict. One of the documents here is a booklet, formatted as a report, called The Deprogramming Network and Its Impact on Advanced Systems, Inc. It's all about the damage that the Cult Awareness Network and its members did to Rama's software and seminar company, Advanced Systems, Inc., ASI.

It's from as best I can tell about 1991, though there isn't any publication date in the pages that I have. There's a big warning on the second page. The information kit has been prepared for representatives of the media for two purposes. The first, to discredit people who've made false or defamatory statements about Rama or his company. The second is to put representatives of the media on notice about the attacks on Rama. It feels to me almost like a plea from Rama's team to get the media's attention. Hey, listen to our side of the story. The document makes it pretty clear how dire

a threat they saw the cult awareness network to be. Inside this report, you can find a lot of details. 200 people are enrolled in the seminar program, the booklet says, though it's not clear what year this was. The booklet also has some other demographic info. The average attendee is 34, makes 80,000 a year. An 80K salary in 91 was the equivalent of about twice that today, 155,000. Those programming jobs paid well.

I kept reading through this box of documents. Next, I want to share excerpts from two documents from that box that go together. A printout of a voicemail from October 1991 and a letter written in response. I should say first, though, that I was not able to independently verify what's on this voicemail and letter. I'm still sharing them because of the nature of the communication, what it shows about how the opposing factions talk to each other, wrote to each other. First, the voicemail. It's from a woman we will call Kay.

For context, Kay, a devoted Rama student, was calling another student whom we will call El, an outspoken skeptic, to discourage her from attending an upcoming seminar. I asked one of my colleagues to read an excerpt from Kay's voicemail. I wish you would quit lying to people to get information to give to people who are like yourself, who are not interested in assisting Rama or in feeling and having good thoughts about him. So I wish you'd cut your shit out and do not even attempt to even think about doing this kind of thing in the future, because I think it's going to end up being a very bad situation for you personally. So I do highly

recommend that you no longer further do these kinds of things and that you do not be in contact with any students who are current students of Rama's because you and I both know how you feel about the situation personally and do not attempt to throw hostility at these people because they all know what your game is. So I would just try to lead your own life. Point made. Kay thinks Elle should, well, shut it. Leave Rama and his students alone. Two days later, Elle responded to Kay by writing a letter.

Pretty long one. Five pages, typed, single-spaced. I'll just share the highlights with you. For starters, Elle singles out what she sees as misinformation. Specifically, she claims to have nothing to do with Kan. Elle also describes another event she considers to be a lie, that she claims Rama told some of his students about a deceased student named Jack Kukulan. Here's an excerpt. Again, someone else is reading this. It's not Elle herself. The coroner's report that I read stated that Jack died of an overdose. Why then does Dr. Lenz accuse 19 women of using lower occult energy to kill him?

Consider for a moment the torment that these women must suffer every day to think that they are murderers. According to the autopsy report, which is also in the box of documents, Jack Kukulin was found in his Pacific Palisades home in August 1986. In his house, police found pictures of Buddha all over the walls and on candles and altars. Jack was found with his head bowed in the lotus position. Officials ruled it an accident,

intoxication by heroin slash morphine, what Elle says in the letter. Elle says that Rama evidently pinned Kukulin's death on 19 female students. And then Elle turns to another thorny topic. She says Rama's gotten several of his students pregnant. The issue that pregnancy brings up, of course, is the lack of birth control. I understand that the woman rather naively believed that some special energy of his would prevent it. Some of these women who were Again, there's no way to verify anything that she's alleged here, but what's interesting to me is how free these students feel to trade vitriol. Elle lays it out in her letter, telling Kay what she thinks is going on

in the group and why she left. I have found that Dr. Lenz breaks up relationships and friendships, implicitly or directly, by suggestions he makes, his teachings, or orders he gives. His reasoning usually concerns interference of some sort. This is done for the purpose of creating division to keep people apart or dependent upon him. If no other person in or out of the group can be trusted, that leaves only him. It causes isolation and dependence and is not normal or healthy. In conclusion, I was unable to tolerate that abuse any longer. How many people have disappeared? How many were committed to mental institutions or committed suicide? How many continue in therapy today? The body count is much too high. The body count is much too high.

Maybe she's referring here to Brenda Kerber or other people she believes have died in connection to Rama. Or something less literal. It's hard to say. Again, Elle's letter doesn't give specifics. No one deserves the abuse any of us have suffered, and neither do you. We all deserve better than that. When I saw that my self-esteem was lower than a snake's ass and that it was associated with my participation in the group, I chose to leave. I knew that I deserved better than feeling like I was a piece of dirt to be

shit upon because of my evil thoughts and actions, most of which I was never guilty of anyway. I never hated him or wanted to kill him, as he so often told us we did. I hated feeling that we could not trust anyone, especially each other. I wanted my own independence and interdependence with others. But most of all, I wanted my own mind. She writes in closing, Let me say that it has been fun and interesting writing to you. P.S. See you at the October seminar. Who said I'm not going? Elle closing with a taunt, But also, despite all that,

she's still planning to attend the seminar? Here's what I take from this back and forth. The disagreement between Kay and Elle isn't about right or wrong or religious freedom. Rather, these two are data points that suggest a lot about the way some students treated each other behind the scenes, how defensively they felt either against or toward Rama, and how offensive they could become, to the point of being toxic. There's one more document in the box I want to talk about. It's the January 1992 edition of the Consultants and Contractors newsletter. It's basically a New York trade publication by techies for other techies with job posts and news about mergers and acquisitions. This edition of their newsletter featured a little cartoon on the front page, Three Smiling Raisins, and it offers a little warning.

Watch out for the so-called California raisins. It's a reference to the famous 1986 ad campaign featuring dancing claymation raisins singing Marvin Gaye's I Heard It Through the Grapevine. Oh yes, I heard it through the grapevine. But in this newsletter, it's referring to some of Rama's students who had acquired a reputation for applying for tech jobs

without much experience. Some people, like Jim Piccarello or Mark Lertzema, told me they were guilty of listing other students as references or beefing up their resumes a little bit. Here's Jim. There was no way to check up easily

on the background of anyone working any job. So you could lie to get into a job with the intention that you were going to learn on the job how to program computers and databases. And there were a number of people that were capable of doing that. Nerdy people like me. Others, like Liz Lewinson and Luke Sutton, said they never did anything of the sort. But it became a big deal at the time. There were news stories about it, industry warnings.

But by the early 90s, the tech industry on the East Coast was catching on, and the raisins from back West were getting blacklisted. There were people that noticed that they'd all come from California. And there were a lot of very, very, very good people. But I'm sure that among that group,

there was probably some that were not quite as sharp. Liz Lewinson saw it all go down. She says the whole thing was blown way out of proportion. But I don't think it's true that anyone at that point was lying. I think they were listing the skills they had. In fact, she said the phrase was more of a reflection of the attitude towards Californians. You have to understand that in New York at that time,

I would just say there's an antipathy toward California. People from California, you know, we were people that ate, you know, sprouts, right? Eventually, according to Liz, Rama hired a lawyer to deal with it, and the whole thing went away in time. It wasn't just the California raisins thing. The accusations and bad press accumulated.

Rama's team of lawyers were defending him in other ways. Suing for libel was tricky. Rama was, after all, a public figure. But looking through this box, you could get the feeling that the group was preparing for some sort of legal action. Collecting information, getting things together like affidavits from Rama's students who could detail the offenses of his detractors, paint them in a negative light. For example, there are a handful of affidavits about Mark Lertzema. They describe him as an incompetent student, a terrible roommate, and a prolific drug user. Shots at his character, undermining his credibility. I should say again, I'm just mentioning these to show what was collected, what was prepared, not to evaluate them.

And though so many of these documents seem to be of a legal nature, Liz says the reason Rama's team collected these statements was less about potential legal action and more about public relations. The idea would be that they would be prepared to share another side of the story with reporters. I would say, okay, well, thanks. In the next few hours, I'm going to get you this group of people and this group of parents and this group of experts to talk to and interview so that you can put balance into your story. And they didn't ever do that. Liz says the very idea of Rama threatened people.

That's why the documents and lawyers were necessary. I dug around a little, and to the best of my knowledge, it sounds like Rama never got sued. But it seems, after opening this box, that his lawyers were getting ready. And more broadly, that Rama and his students felt the weight of the outside world collapsing slowly onto them. This pressure was squeezing the freedom that they used to enjoy. The freedom, freedom of religion, or maybe of just being left alone, that allowed their group to form in the first place so many years ago. But there were only so many affidavits to collect, only so much defense to be played. Eventually, Rama made a decision, one that some might have advised against.

He decided to make one more foray into the press, this time letting reporters further behind the curtain than he ever had before. In the early and mid-90s, in the midst of a lot of bad press, Rama could have avoided the limelight, but didn't choose to, at least not entirely. Kate Stone Lombardi is a reporter who wrote a story about Rama for the New York Times in 1993. She remembers the interview. He was very much in a sales mode. She covered Westchester County for the Times in the early 90s. She asked him the hard questions,

as she describes it in the article, the allegations of psychological manipulation, financial exploitation, and sexual abuse. Rama denied all of it. But he also stayed on the phone. He could have declined to comment, refused to talk. I think he was also a little excited to be interviewed by the New York Times. I think it gave him some legitimacy in his mind. I might be projecting this, but I was surprised he even

agreed to talk to me. And he did, and he stayed on the phone, and he did answer all my questions. I can't say for sure, of course, but it seems that that excitement, that idea of legitimacy, helped propel Rama's decision to let Dateline behind the curtain. This was a chance to gain back control of the narrative, he must have thought. Millions of viewers would tune in

from their living room. So, against some of his students' advice, Rama agreed to let Dateline in. The special, called Caught in the Net, aired in 1996. In it, Rama sits across from the reporter, John Hockenberry, wearing a black leather vest and a black t-shirt. And on his lap, one of his beloved Scotties. But besides the dog, his look has moved more towards middle-aged professional. He's about 45 years old now. His mess of blonde curls is cut shorter. But besides the dog, his look has moved more towards middle-aged professional.

He's about 45 years old now. His mess of blonde curls is cut shorter. His face looks thinner than I'm used to from his old posters and photos. Here he is, early on in the special, distancing himself from the idea that he's a cult leader. I don't have followers. You don't have followers? Not unless I'm in traffic. Why are you making that point now? Because I'm teasing you.

The special is focused on digging into Rama's claims, exploring the controversies around him, and giving him a chance to defend himself, even if that backfires. Are you a cult? No, I'm Rama. I'm a person. Early on, the special spends a bit of time focused on students who rave about Rama. One student, Jan Wright, says that Rama's program worked for her. Meditation, computer science, business acumen, Rama taught it all. You can also see a young Jim Piccarello.

Back then, he had long hair pulled back into a low ponytail, very 90s. Jim recounts some of the amazing feats, the magic, really, that he witnessed. He tells both halves of his story, falling in with Rama, the magic of it all, and also finding his way out. Dateline brings on his mom, Sue O'Hearn. She talked about how she saw the effect that Rama's power had over her son. Hockenberry also talks to a former student of five years who asked to stay anonymous. All we can see is her silhouette as she talks about the level of influence Rama had over her, how Rama chose everything for her and other students,

from the types of clothes they wore, what music they listened to, even how they invest their money. She also talked about becoming isolated, students changing their identities, not letting their friends and families know where they lived, not interacting with people outside of the group because they were low vibe. She describes this kind of isolation with a very specific term, inaccessible. She calls that a cult word. The special framed a lot of its coverage

around the idea of Rama's control over his students. The anonymous student says she had a sexual relationship with Rama and that she would thank him after each encounter. She says that Rama had convinced her that sex with him wasn't regular sex. It was an exchange of energy, something that she eventually comes to realize wasn't real. She describes feeling very used by Rama. Hockenberry asks Rama about the woman. Did they date? Did they just sleep together? I should note Hockenberry himself would later resign over allegations of sexual harassment and bullying in the workplace while hosting a public radio program. Rama responds to Hockenberry by saying he doesn't remember the first date, but then doubles back and asks,

Dating is okay, right? Sort of accuses Hockenberry of being overly judgmental. The special cuts back to the woman, who says she never had a date with Rama, unless you count going to bed with someone as a date. Rama disputes this, saying it was, in fact, a beautiful relationship. Hockenberry notes that they slept together 12 times, and Rama says she counted. Hockenberry responds, you didn't. It's an uncomfortable back and forth. I can't say for sure what Dateline's motivation was to ask about dating students, about sleeping with them. When I watch it, it comes across to me

as a sort of debate that comments on the larger questions around Rama. There is the obvious tension between a woman saying that Rama manipulated her into having sex by promising something more spiritual and Rama deflecting, laughing it off, implying that the woman was a little desperate, saying that Rama manipulated her into having sex by promising something more spiritual, and Rama deflecting, laughing it off, implying that the woman was a little desperate, asking really, what's the big deal about a little consensual sex?

But zooming out, it kind of comes back to what so much of the debate around Rama does. Was he a good guy, as a student said, or as his detractors claimed, a con man? For a large portion of the special, Dateline delves into Rama's finances and his business empire. The theme at first is figuring out which of Rama's ventures paid the bills. Rama tells Dateline that his wealth kind of happened by accident.

So Dateline does some digging. Rama's writing gets a quick look. He sold some books, but exaggerated the sales a bit. Then they turn to Rama's music career. He formed a band called Zazen. Dateline interviews a guy named Steve Kaplan. He says that he never saw Rama write or compose anything. The special spends the bulk of this section on Rama's computer programming business. Rama minimizes it at first, says he didn't have

any employees, but the special says he's the CEO of 12 privately held businesses. After Rama claims that his companies sell a lot of software to the U.S. military, Dateline says the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Coast Guard haven't heard of Rama's products. The Marines did say they made $7,500 in purchases. Rama tells Hockenberry that his companies sell to large Fortune 500 companies and cites Bank of America as a client. But Hockenberry says Bank of America didn't know anything about it. The special turns to a particular product that one of Rama's companies sells for about $10,000 a pop. Rama was listed as the inventor. Rama tells Hockenberry that 200 of the largest companies in the world are running his software.

When pressed for names, Rama says he'd have to look at the list. It's upstairs. He'd have to go get it. Hockenberry says he'd love to see at the list. It's upstairs, he'd have to go get it. Hockenberry says he'd love to see the list and later tells us, the viewers, that no list was provided. And that Rama's lawyer didn't cooperate. He says that Dateline spent weeks trying to find a purchasing agent who knew anything about Rama's computer software but couldn't. All of this questioning and fact-checking leads up to Dateline's final takeaway. Much of Rama's money comes not from books, music, or computer programming businesses, but from students paying fees.

Now, according to Will Arnst, Rama allegedly received a large windfall payment from him, many millions of dollars, in 1995, the year before the special came out. The special doesn't mention Will or his business. I don't know whether Dateline was aware about it at the time they reported the story, but Dateline does talk to someone who says he's been privy to Rama's financial dealings. It's Steve Kaplan, the former student and Zazen member, who says he never saw Rama write a song. Kaplan tells Hockenberry that Rama was making millions from his students' payments and that he was one of Rama's cash couriers. He'd fly to New York for seminars and then,

at the end, would take all the money the students paid and fly it back to the accountants. Sort of bagman, ferrying hundreds of thousands of dollars around the country. Hockenberry asks other people how much they paid Rama. One woman said it went up from $20 a month to $1,000, says it's cheaper than college. In response, Rama doesn't dispute the tuition. He says they pay him because he helps make them rich. He's especially calm and confident on this topic. I have taught meditation to over half a million people.

I have helped a lot of people out. I have worked 18, 19, 20-hour days trying to do anything I can to help people succeed in life. And sometimes people are very generous and they say, Jesus, I've made all this money. Let me help you out. But Dateline gives the last word to a skeptic, Jim Piccarello, again. He describes the whole operation in a word as wrong, that the group is being deceitful and that the students are being put under control. I'm not telling you this because Jim is the final authority on Rama, but to note that Dateline chose to give him this spot, towards the very end.

It sends a message to the viewer. Dateline couldn't really corroborate the claims that Rama was making. The last line Jim says is, I think that's about as wrong as you can get. Needless to say, giving Dateline this kind of access backfired on Rama. Instead of setting what he saw as an inaccurate record straight and coming across as one of the good guys, some students told me they thought the special only hurt Rama's reputation. From what I can tell, Dateline was a last-ditch effort by Rama,

a bit of a Hail Mary. And when it backfired, Rama stepped even further back from the spotlight, focusing on his companies and a select group of students, closing ranks, if you will. And eventually, preparing his students to move on without him. So in retrospect, he was winding down, right? We didn't necessarily know that at the time. That's next time on I Am Rama. I Am Rama is a Neon Hum original podcast

reported and produced by Kate Mishkin and me, Jonathan Hirsch. Our editor is Vikram Patel. Catherine St. Louis is our executive editor. And I'm the executive producer of the show. Follow me on Instagram and Twitter at Jonathan I. Hirsch. I'll be sharing tons of source material, photos, and other stuff related to our work on the series, so be sure to check it out.

Sound design and mixing by Scott Somerville. Justin Klosko is our fact checker. Our production manager is Sammy Allison. The theme song for this series is Dolphin Dance by Tangerine Dream. Other tracks you heard in this episode are from Epidemic Sound and Blue Dot Sessions. Special thanks to NBC News Archives for licensing all of the Dateline clips you've heard in this series. Subscribe and listen on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. And you can find more about this series and all the podcasts we produce at Neon Hum by visiting our website, neonhum.com. I'm Jonathan Hirsch. Thanks for listening. you