The Binge Cases: Denise Didn't Come Home - My Friend, the Serial Killer | 2. Confessions

Episode Date: June 10, 2024

Steve dives deeper into the details of the killer’s life, reaching out to his wife and daughter in an attempt to secure an exclusive interview with the killer in prison. Meanwhile, the Florida police dig into the grisly details of the killer’s crimes… but if they want to hold the killer accountable, they are going to need evidence.   This episode will be released for free on June 10th.    Unlock all episodes of Smoke Screen: My Friend, the Serial Killer, ad-free, right now by subscribing to The Binge. Plus, get binge access to brand new stories dropping on the first of every month  thats all episodes, all at once, all ad-free.   Just click Subscribe on the top of the Smoke Screen show page on Apple Podcasts or visit GetTheBinge.com to get access wherever you get your podcasts.   An Orbit Media & Sony Music Entertainment production in association with Rhyme Media.   Find out more about The Binge and other podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to Smokescreen, my friend the serial killer. Before you dive in, if you want to listen to the whole story uninterrupted, you can. Unlock the entire season ad-free right now with a subscription to The Binge. That's all episodes, all at once. Unlock your listening now by clicking subscribe at the Smokescreen show page on Apple Podcasts or visit GetTheBinge.com to get access wherever you get your podcasts. A quick warning before we start.

This show contains descriptions of sexual violence and murder. Listener discretion is advised. Robert Carr's home was a bit like Carr himself. Unassuming, a little pockmarked. Seemed average enough. It's in a duplex. The cars were renting upstairs. As I walk up the steps and knock on the door, I have my reporter's notebook in hand. I'm feeling a little nervous. After all, Joanne Carr is my best shot,

maybe my only shot, at getting a big interview with her husband, Robert. I knock. Joanne opens the door, but just a crack. Tentatively. Like she doesn't really trust who's on the other side. She's small, with dark hair, sweet face. Looks like she hasn't slept in a while. She invites me in. She's clearly shell-shocked.

Joanne says she cannot believe what her husband has done Attacked and killed kids, young women Of course she knows about the rapes her husband committed previously He'd been to prison in Connecticut But standing there in her kitchen, she tells me something that I've never forgotten She says, I thought if you gave it to them at home, they'd be fine. She thought that if she provided sex at home, then her husband wouldn't rape others. One thing seems clear to me. Joanne Carr was terrified of her husband. And then, as we're talking, I notice their 12-year-old daughter Donna.

She's standing not far away. She's a skinny kid with long, bright blonde hair, hunched over a bit. To me, maybe it's just the circumstances, but she seems forlorn. Suddenly, I feel like an intruder. But you know, I'm here to get a story. So we start talking. Pretty soon, Joanne shocks me. She wants my help to mentor Donna, be a kind of big brother to her. Wow. It feels like this woman's desperate. I can't say no. There was this little knee wall next to the building where they lived. So one day Donna and I sit there and we talk. Another day I take her to an arcade. It's a local place with pinball machines. In my memory, it was not a good day for Donna. She banged on the

pinball machine when she didn't do well, and then she just ran out of the arcade. Over the years, I've wondered what happened to Donna, how her life turned out. But back then, my focus was pretty singular. I was trying to find a way to talk to Donna's father. I asked Joanne to send a message to her husband down in that prison in Florida, putting a word for me. I remind Joanne that I know him, that he picked me up hitchhiking not far from their house.

I assure her I can tell his story. Robert Carr has already started to tell his story to the cops. He says he's going to give them all the evidence they need to make a case against him. This is My Friend the Serial Killer. I'm Steve Fishman. Episode 2, Confessions. As a kid growing up in Chicago, there was one horror movie I was too scared to watch.

It was called Candyman. It was about this supernatural killer who would attack his victims if they said his name five times into a bathroom mirror. But did you know that the movie Candyman was partly inspired by an actual murder? I was struck by both how spooky it was, but also how outrageous it was. Listen to Candyman, the true story behind the bathroom mirror murder, wherever you get your podcasts. Has everything you told us been truly the best you know? Yes, it has.

Cops and prosecutors don't typically think too much about why someone confesses to crimes. They're too busy closing cases, moving on to the next one. But Robert Carr was unusual, because when Miami police arrested him for one crime, he confessed to many others. Crimes the police and prosecutor Ed O'Donnell didn't even know had been committed. Did he ever say why he was confessing?

When he got arrested for the attempted rape or rape, he had an awakening epiphany, if you want. Well, this is what I'm supposed to do now. Let me get rid of all this guilt. He doesn't say that. No. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. That's me thinking. No, no. I never said to him,

okay, Robert, come on. Why did you do this? Maybe if I was a defense attorney, you'd be looking for some sort of insanity or something, but it wasn't there. There was no real remorse. Something is motivating him, but what is it?

Robert Carr spent hours and hours over several days telling detectives about the crimes he said he'd committed. In the confession tape said he'd committed. In the confession tape, he remains calm throughout. His descriptions are detailed and matter-of-fact. To me, he almost seems weary. I drank two six-packs of beer, then two pints of peppermint snobs during the day, and then picked up two more six packs of beer.

Both the cops and Carr seemed to have an appetite for the smallest details. What kind of beer do you usually drink? No, how I like. What kind of peppermint snips? Harold Walker. By the time he'd finished with the detectives, Robert Carr had confessed to multiple crimes. Four murders, two 11-year-old boys who were best friends, a teenage girl, and a young woman.

He also confessed to at least eight rapes, all of them hitchhikers. Carr often held his victims captive for a week or more, which is really unusual in a rapist. Eventually, he'd let some go if he believed they wouldn't tell the cops. According to Carr, he ultimately decides to confess because of a sense of connection he felt with one of his victims, Tammy Ruth Huntley, who was 16 years old, half Carr's age.

This is why I confessed this whole thing. This was on her account. Carr may have kidnapped and raped Tammy, but he still imagined they had sort of a relationship. Tammy had a stepsister named Candy Sweet Lovett. Candy thought of Tammy as a big sister, loving and dedicated. She was also a protector. She was very tough. She didn't take shit from nobody. I'm telling you, she did not take shit from nobody.

Tammy's about two years older than Candy. She made me feel like I was a princess or something. She's treated everybody equal. You know, she never, you know, put down people or criticized people or made fun of people. You know, she was just amazing. So was she the kind of kid who ran away from home? Not her, no. But she didn't show up for work one day.

Tammy had a job at a place that made golf cart seats and guitar cases. It was her day off. She was supposed to go to work to get her paycheck. I mean, she was... When it comes to money, she was really funny about that. She got her money, okay? So it was just really odd that she had missed out on it. Yeah. Candy had no idea what happened to her sister.

On the night of March 29th, I came down 163rd Street, heading east towards the DJ, made the right at this corner. This is one of the tapes Carr made with those two Miami homicide detectives. It wasn't easy to get. We'd been spending a lot of time trying to track down those detectives. Finally, we got one on the phone. He wouldn't talk, but he did say he had a couple of tapes. And one day they showed up at my producer's apartment. I wasn't exactly looking forward to watching them. I knew they were going to be detailed and I knew they were going to be creepy. But it's so rare that you get to hear a serial killer talk openly about his crimes. Here, in one of the tapes, Carr is drawing a map on the blackboard behind him.

He looks a little like a schoolteacher, given a lesson. He's calm. He's calm. He's relaxed. He's wearing short sleeves, and he shows the detectives exactly where he makes a right turn on red. I stayed in the right lane, and there was a girl standing just beyond the Greyhound bus station, which is right on the corner there. She was standing in an extremely dark area. And my headlights hit her and I knew right away this was it. Carr's driving a 69 Ford Torino with racing stripes. Tammy was trying to go about 20 blocks.

And like I was just months before, she's looking for a ride as Robert Carr drives up. Was she hitchhiking? Yes, she was. How did you pick this girl as compared to the other girls? She was mature looking. She was intelligent looking. Okay. She didn't look as big as she was really uh she had a um kind of a real girlish look about

her which was deceiving a little bit uh after i got a better look at her but you know i mean you have to make a decision somehow and i made it by what I thought I saw. This girl got in the car and she was talking just continuous. She was all wound up and she was just talking and I never saw anything like it. And I was trying to question her about, just how far are you going now? And she told me she's going to 140th street i wasn't sure where that was at that time and i says well uh where is 140th street and she said you know where the drive-in is and i saw the ad she says well it's just below the drive-in i said okay so driving down and uh she's talking and talking and I'm nodding my head and saying uh-huh.

I got down to the drive-in and she says you can let me out right here on the right-hand side this is our new van. She was looking out, I wasn't stopped, she wasn't trying to open the door or anything. She was just looking out for some reason and I reached and pulled the knife out and this knife had an extremely sharp point on it like a pin and I just pushed it up into her blouse and it stuck her a little bit you know like I don't mean it went into her but it was real sharp and it just you know jumped her and she turned around real quick like that and I said, don't move and you won't be hurt. And I said, just calm down. And she said, oh, my God, please don't do anything.

And I said, okay, then go down on the floorboard with your knees on the floor, your stomach and your head on the seat. And she looked at me in a real style. And then she says, oh, my God. And then she reached and grabbed my arm. The detectives are listening intently. At one point, Carr turns to Detective Charlie Zatropalik. Can I use your arm for a minute? Can I use your arm for a minute, he asks. Charlie sticks his arm out so Carr can act out his story. He uses both hands to tightly grab the detective's arm just behind the wrist. She reached in, she went around the knife like this, and she grabbed my arm and she's looking at me and she says,

oh my God, please don't hurt me. And I said, take your hands off my arm. And she squeezed that much harder and she said, oh my God, please don't hurt me. And I said, take your hands off my arm. And she squeezed that much harder and she's, she's, oh my God, please don't hurt me. And I said, take your hands off of my arm. And she says, please, like that. I says, I'm going to stab you. And I launched like this and she threw her hands up

and she said, okay, I'll do anything you say. As Carr is calmly telling the detectives about this incredibly frightening ride, someone in the police station whistles happily nearby. and proceeded to rest on the 125th. At that time, I told her to put her knees on the floorboards, put her stomach and her head on the seat. This time, she was watching me very closely. She did that. She one time picked her head up, and I pushed it down on the seat.

I said, don't pick your head up again. And she didn't. I covered her up with a coat, and I told her not to say a word. Don't ask me any questions. Don't talk to me. I'll answer all of your questions later. Carr drives all night and then all the next day. Finally, a.m the following night he arrives at a remote dirt road in the middle of a swamp i just pulled down in there and there's no place to pull apart get out of sight so i just stopped right in the middle of this dirt road which was used for logging trucks i guess i don't know and hunters used it great

where is this area just It's called Turkey Island. It's in Mississippi. About 25 to 30 miles east of New Orleans. Now they're about 800 miles from Miami. Carr says Tammy barely moved the whole trip. I'd driven all day the day before, all night, at night, and all at day. And I was exhausted, literally exhausted. I was scared to go to sleep, a fear that she would get away.

Carr lets Tammy get up, but says if she gives him any trouble, he'll lock her in the trunk. She begs to go home. Carr assures her he's not going to hurt her. I said, Tammy, if I ever tell you a lie, if I ever do anything that I said I wasn't going to do, then you have reason not to trust me. As long as I keep my word to you, trust me. And she says, that sounds like a good idea. And so I was a little worried about telling her I was going to the right way. Neither of them had eaten much since they left Miami nearly two days before.

Robert Carr opened some chicken noodle soup, no doubt that had been on his shopping list too. He shared it with Tammy. We were sitting there and Tammy had her window down, and I had my window down as well, and the air was flowing through there. Anyway, Tammy said, Tammy started listening and she said, what's that noise? And I said, what noise? She said, it's that noise out there in the woods, you know, she's talking about. And I started looking and then I heard it. Something rustling around in the bushes.

And I said, I don't know. And all of a sudden, a little armadillo about this long. Just walked right out to the edge of the road, gave us a look, stuck his nose in the leaves and played right there beside the car. He rolled over. He did everything. And Tammy was fascinated. She said, I've never seen an armadillo before.

And she said, I bet you if I opened the door, he'd get in. I hadn't heard this confession tape until I began making this podcast. Listening to it, I remember my own ride with Carr, that soft southern drawl. It's clear in the tapes Carr enjoys telling a story, even this one. He enjoys being the instructor at the blackboard, controlling the narrative. I listen now, that same quiet voice, and I think how nonchalant he makes evil sound. Anyway, I leaned over.

I was still leaning over her, and I looked at her, and I said, Tammy, you know, remember when I told you that if I don't have a mind to you, you know, trust me. And she says, yeah. And I said, well, there's one thing there that wasn't right at the time, but now I've changed my mind about it. I think we should talk about it. She says, what's that? And she says, you're not going to hurt me.

And I says, no, I'm not going to hurt you. I said, but remember I told you you weren't going to get raped? She says, yeah. no i'm not going to hurt you remember i told you you weren't going to get raped she says yeah and i said well i decided to change my mind on it we should talk about it and she sat there for a minute she thought about it and she says well just once now you need i said no we're going to be here a while. We may as well, you know, I'm going to, you know, fight off. Good, and life better, anything to stop? No, no, life would lock up and go up the park.

She said, I really don't have any choice, do I? And I said, in this position, Tammy, I'd say, no, you don't. This is her second day in captivity. That night, it rains hard. The ground turns to mud. The vehicle gets stuck. The car is in a foul mood. A stuck car means they might need help,

which could give Tammy a chance to escape. They try to free the car themselves, pushing it, shoving stuff under the tires for traction. Nothing works. It's April 1st, the car's daughter's birthday. That's Donna. I remember her as the forlorn little girl her mother had asked me to spend time with.

She's turning 12, and as they work to free the car, he tells Tammy about his daughter. At one point, they take a break, and Tammy finds a muscle shell in the mud. According to Carr, she draws flowers on it, writes Donna in capital letters, and covers it in clear nail polish, then gives it to Carr.

Many of these details come from a book Carr eventually wrote with a reporter. There are a lot we can't independently verify, like the one with the muscle shell. We can verify that a little while later, Tammy spots a hunter next to a truck in the distance. He's holding a gun. Carr tells Tammy he's going to wade through the water to ask the hunter to help pull them out. He tells Tammy if she says anything, one of them is going to get hurt, and she better hope it's the hunter to help pull them out. He tells Tammy if she says anything, one of them is going to get

hurt, and she better hope it's the hunter. According to Carr, she replies, don't worry about it. I'm not going to say a thing. They both get into the hunter's truck, and he drives it around to position it where he can hitch it to the car and yank it out. And then the hunter goes on his way. Tammy's in her second week of captivity. In Carr's mind, they're in this together. Carr believes Tammy is loyal to him. He even starts to imagine she likes him.

They go to stores together, and Carr says they go to clubs. He believes they're having fun. One day in a store, she looks at an imitation sapphire, her birthstone. Carr buys it for her. He lets her drive the car. He feels like he's really started to care about her. I think about this, and it takes the wind out of me. I think of Tammy with that knife point in her thigh,

desperate to survive, doing whatever it takes. She's only a teenager. Carr's 32. He's let other victims go. Tammy's on her best behavior. It's all she has to hold on to. At night, Carr always takes her back to the same secluded Mississippi woods.

That's where they sleep, in the Ford Torino. Had you been to this area previously? Yes, I have. In his confession, Carr is giving cops detailed reports of rapes and murders he says he committed. But the cops have a problem. No murders have been reported. Carr can confess all he wants with as many details as he wants. Without a body, the cops have no case. Prosecutor Ed O'Donnell.

Remember, we got a fine body. We don't have any bodies. We don't have any reports of anybody being found deceased. Nothing to go on. Where are these bodies? Is it the main section of the road or off the road? No, it's off the road. You going to be able to find it again? Yeah. You going to be willing to take us and show us where it's at? Yes, I am willing to take you and show us where it's at?

Yes, I am willing to take them and show you where it's at. What's your reaction when he says, I'll take you to them? Okay. Really? You'll take us there? Now you understand that when we find these bodies, we've got a completed crime. Look, when we find these bodies, you're going to be arrested, charged with first-degree murder.

At that time, it did carry death. He said, I understand that. Okay. According to Carr, Tammy is not the only victim he took across state lines. In fact, not the only victim he took to that spot on Turkey Island. Of the people he claims to have killed, he says two are buried in Mississippi, one in Louisiana, and there's one back in Connecticut.

And that's all the cops have to go on. Nothing other than Carr's word. So now, they're going to go on a trip to see if the guy is telling the truth. And on this trip, Robert Carr will be leading the way. I really enjoyed his company. So he's a guy you could imagine having dinner with? Yeah, sure. Unlock all episodes of Smokescreen, my friend, the serial killer.

Ad-free right now by subscribing to the Binge Podcast channel. Not only will you immediately unlock all episodes of this show, but you'll get binge access to an entire network of other great true crime and investigative podcasts, all of them ad-free. Plus, on the first of every month, subscribers get a binge drop of a brand new series. That's all episodes all at once. Unlock your listening now by clicking subscribe at the top of the Smokescreen show page in Apple Podcasts or visit getthebinge.com to get access wherever you get your podcasts. My Friend the Serial Killer is a production of Orbit Media in association with Rhyme. Creator and host, that's me, Steve Fishman.

Our senior producer is Dan Bobcoff. Our associate producer and production coordinator is Austin Smith. Editorial consulting by Annie Aviles. Fact check, Catherine Newhand. Our mixer and sound designer is Scott Somerville. From Sony Music Entertainment, our executive producers are Jonathan Hirsch and Catherine St. Louis. Additional reporting by Daniel Bates, Ben Feuerherd, Andy Thibault, and Francisco Alvarado. Special thanks to Cassie Epps at Otis Library in Norwich, Connecticut.