The Binge Cases: Denise Didn't Come Home - Scary Terri | 4. Becoming Mrs. Hoffman

Episode Date: December 23, 2024

Terri didn’t just convince people to take their own lives. She was a cancer on whole families. The Hoffmans filed a wrongful death suit trying to hold her accountable. Binge all episodes of Scary... Terri, ad-free today by subscribing to The Binge. Visit The Binge Cases show page on Apple Podcasts and hit ‘subscribe’ or visit GetTheBinge.com to get access. The Binge – feed your true crime obsession.  Unwrap a huge holiday discount on NordVPN by heading to https://nordvpn.com/thebinge. Plus, with our link, you’ll get an extra 4 months free on the 2-year plan, and it’s risk-free with Nord’s 30-day money-back guarantee. Check the link in the description! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Starting point is 00:00:00 This episode is brought to you by NordVPN. This season you can give the gift of one-tap protection from hackers, trackers, and prying eyes across all your devices. NordVPN offers a powerful but easy way to protect your online privacy and access content without restrictions. A virtual private network or VPN is a service that protects your internet connection and privacy online. VPNs create an encrypted tunnel for your data, protect your online identity and allow you to use public Wi-Fi hotspots safely. I find it perfect to watch my favorite thrillers, I love catching a Nordic noir, to use my devices safely when I'm traveling and to find the best online deals. I love being able to unlock films and global content with a single click by switching my virtual location in 111 countries
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Starting point is 00:01:27 Visit The Binge channel on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe at the top of the page or visit GetTheBinge.com to get access wherever you listen. The Binge, feed your true crime obsession. The Bench. Before we get started, I just want to let you know that this episode does discuss suicide. So please listen with care. Alice Hoffman had seen and heard enough, and she knew where the bodies were buried. She heard Terry claim that Devereux was possessed by the Black Lords just months before she died. She'd gone to the cabin that day and found Glenn Cooley dead of an overdose.
Starting point is 00:02:24 Enough was enough. She was ready to leave Terry, even if her husband wasn't. He and Terry were very involved at that point, and my mom was really unhappy. He would yell and scream at my mom a lot, and they said that they were going to get a divorce. Alice and Dawn would break up, but it wasn't a clean break.
Starting point is 00:02:49 So this is the weird part. Basically, they said, we're getting a divorce, we're gonna sell the house, and when we sell the house, we're gonna move to Bedford, and we're gonna live in an apartment until the house sells, and then we're gonna split the money and go our separate ways. And Janet was the only kid left in the house with them.
Starting point is 00:03:06 We moved and at this point my brother had gone off to college. Janet said her mom started drinking more heavily during this time. Sharing space with her soon-to-be ex would upset her. She'd want to escape, go to the bar. And I'd be like, mom, just stay at home, just talk to me, you know, she wouldn't talk to us. Don and Alice were going through so much at the time that they couldn't really be there for their kids. My brother and I just had all the freedom in the world. There's really not much parental supervision at that point just because they were so involved in their emotional turmoil. Alice started seeing somebody else.
Starting point is 00:03:47 And Don, he got consumed with CDBMS and with Terry. My dad had a pretty big ego, I feel like, and she fed his ego by having him be very involved in creating these instruments. Shields, swords, weapons to fight off black lords. We had a garage in the end of the workshop and he would like solder these, like, copper piping together into these different shapes. And basically she had him convinced that he was helped fighting the evil of the world. That's like the ultimate to be a savior, you know? And she knew that's what he needed. But yet again, Terry was becoming a wedge,
Starting point is 00:04:40 working things to her advantage. And I could see the separation between my parents because she was starting to favor him at that time and have him do all this stuff. And then my mom kind of started to take a step back. Yana didn't really know who to believe. It was unsettling. Her mom left Terry's group while her dad doubled down on it. It was
Starting point is 00:05:07 pretty much them living together with it in this fake life and my dad was just hardly ever around and then eventually they sold the house and then he moved into his own apartment. After that the relationship was all but over. Just seeing the family break up was just a, it was just a tough thing for me at that time. And of course, I'm only 19 at this time. Rick said he felt like his parents never really came back from the death of their baby, Michael. Their grief was what drove them ultimately to Terry. And it seemed Terry ultimately drove them apart. ["The Last Supper"]
Starting point is 00:05:54 Terry made up stories about stuff mom had done that wasn't quite true. These stories about her fooling around with other men, which I don't believe she ever did. The divorce moved along quickly after that. She had to sign some kind of waiver to approve it or something weird like that. Don needed the mother of his children
Starting point is 00:06:18 to sign a waiver during their divorce proceedings. Because in Texas, during this time, an ex needed to sign a waiver expediting a divorce if their former partner wanted to enter into another marriage contract, which is exactly what Don Hoffman wanted to do. And then the next thing you know, he and Terry are getting married.
Starting point is 00:06:46 In sickness and in health, till death do us part. Well, till death do one of us part. From Sony Music Entertainment, this is Scary Terry. I'm Jonathan Hirsch. Chapter 4. Becoming Mrs. Hoffman. Reserve your ride as soon as you book your flights. To all the planners, now you can reserve your Uber ride up to 90 days in advance. See Uber app for details. Bumble knows it's hard to start conversations.
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Starting point is 00:07:55 Then sit back and let your matches start the chat. Download Bumble and try it for yourself. In the counseling sessions between Dolores and Terry, there's a chumminess. Taken out of context, they sound like two middle-aged ladies gossiping about their love life. At one point, Terry talks to Dolores about Dawn. Don and I had a perfect sex life. I mean, I can't think of anybody that, I've never known anybody that's had one any better. We would take time off to go up to Oklahoma.
Starting point is 00:08:37 We would make love just all day long. She seemed to be bragging about their sexual connection in those phone calls. I've never even made love to anybody before I married Don. And with any of our husbands. After being with Don, I don't even consider what I had with them making love. It was so good. After Don, she would never want for another. I could have gone to bed with so many people
Starting point is 00:09:23 in my lifetime, but I never would because of their energies. I didn't want to exchange energies with crummy people. Terry made it seem to Dorothy like Dawn was her one true love. We would make love just all day long. Right. We'd just take some cheese and chopped ham and eat some.
Starting point is 00:09:49 Eat pickles and cheese and chopped ham and maybe grapes or something. Uh huh. Spend the whole day making love. And we'd do that twice, twice a weekend. Oh, boy. To each their own, but chopped ham, cheese, and pickles
Starting point is 00:10:12 in the hot Oklahoma sun isn't my idea of a sexy getaway. But it's clear from these conversations that Terry was quite enamored with Don, or at least wanted Dorothy to think so, much to the bafflement of Dawn's children. I remember the apartment he was living in, not too far from Terry over there in Dallas. And I remember him telling me that he had started dating her.
Starting point is 00:10:42 Rick couldn't believe it. A spiritual teacher who wore moomoo's? I found that very interesting because as I described before, Terry's from a physical perspective, isn't the most attractive person. I think I did question him, I'm like, why Terry? It felt like he talked more about the need to help her, to help her with
Starting point is 00:11:07 her businesses, to help her with the books. Don had a need to care for Terry, to help her and support her. He didn't make it seem like they were wildly in love. More like how you might care for a family member who's ailing, a mother, a divine mother, perhaps. He would spend a ton of time running her businesses, you know, whether it was making cassette tapes for some of the lessons, you know, getting books printed, going and taking care of their properties. I went camping with him a couple of times
Starting point is 00:11:45 up at Cripple Creek and then spending hours in the documents looking for mineral rights for the land that they owned and things like that. Don was less her lover than he was perhaps her servant, her devotee, a man who wouldn't question her. Unfortunately, my brother and I were in the wedding with her daughters because we didn't know how to say no. You know, like, that was our dad.
Starting point is 00:12:16 Okay, you want to spend the wedding? Okay. We were like. I remember my dad making fun of me not shaving for the wedding. But yeah, I mean, it was the typical conscious development crowd and the usual suspects that were there. Terry was wearing, I think it was a light blue dress, as I recall. I remember some lady singing Amazing Grace,
Starting point is 00:12:38 and to this day, I cannot stand to hear that song because it reminds me so much of that day. We were concerned about my dad, that he would maybe be the next one to go. Seems like when Terry gets tired of her husbands, she convinces them to end their life. After that, like an explosion, shards of their lives together spun out
Starting point is 00:13:02 in different directions. Alice would also get married again. Now she ended up getting, you know, meeting a man pretty quickly and getting remarried pretty quickly. Then their mother didn't really want to talk about CDBMS anymore. Janney moved out and would eventually marry too, have a career and a family of her own. Rick seemed to be the one member of the family who stayed close to Don,
Starting point is 00:13:30 kept contact with dad after he married his spiritual teacher. Rick showed up at the house one day where Don lived with Terry and her daughters. She was like, oh, I guess you need to eat food, huh? So she's like, oh, okay, let me go round up some money. And so she went and rounded up like eight bucks or so and gave it to me and said, here you go, go buy whatever you want. At first, Terry tried to make some effort
Starting point is 00:14:00 to act like a stepmother. She got over that pretty quickly. That was about the only time when she's like, oh yeah, I guess you're now my step-son, so I guess I need to feed you. Their marriage seemed like an afterthought. But because he was her stepson, Rick got to see what Terry's private life was like, and what he saw wasn't always pretty.
Starting point is 00:14:23 Terry was a hoarder, so their house was like. And what he saw wasn't always pretty. Terry was a hoarder. So their house was like a typical hoarders where you had paths to work your way through the living room and into the other rooms. The table was full of crap. And, you know, there just there just wasn't a lot of room in that house, as I recall. I think she had four or five storage units in the backyard that she stuffed full of stuff. It was just nutty. Her daughter, Virginia, lived at Terry's house
Starting point is 00:14:53 with her boyfriend, John, in an extension. There was kind of a master bedroom that was built up over the garage. So she lived up there and it had its own separate entrance that she could come and go. And she lived up there and it had its own separate entrance that she could come and go. And she lived up there with her boyfriend who mainly from what I remember, sold pot. And I remember them smoking pot all the time up there. You could smell it on that end of the house.
Starting point is 00:15:19 Nat. Rick doesn't remember her having a job. Rick I think they basically sold drugs to get the money that they had for it and stuff like that. So I just, I remember one in this one, this is kind of a gross story, so you may have to cut it out of this podcast, but Terry used to do a lot of what she called energy work. It was basically massage therapy
Starting point is 00:15:44 and she had learned it over in India and everything else. And I remember her giving me a massage that was, I mean, I have to admit she was very talented. I just remember with John one time we were sitting there watching TV or something like that and Terry offered to give him a massage and he's like, okay, yeah, great. And she goes, all right, we'll lose the pants. And so off comes his pants and he's got a big brown spot on the
Starting point is 00:16:12 back of his underwear. So like he'd shit himself. I'm just like, oh, well, that's a little embarrassing and he has no idea that he's done this. Terry wanted her followers to see her as an embodiment of Christ, a loving, psychic, spiritual mother, Terry G. But her living situation belied that image. Her home looked less like something you'd imagine gracing the halls of the afterlife, and more like something you'd see late night on reruns of Lifetime. She would portray herself as this very advanced
Starting point is 00:16:52 spiritual guru, she knew all the masters, she had all the information. But in real life, in living with her, you saw a whole different picture, right, of somebody who didn't have a lot of class, was very demanding on my dad, I remember, and pushed him hard to take care of things and manage her businesses and all that kind of stuff. Over the years, Janet and Rick saw their father grow tired, seemingly exhausted by the amount
Starting point is 00:17:22 of things Terry demanded he do for her. By now, Terry had launched a variety of businesses for her jewelry, perfume business, a massage business, counseling business. Terry kept a tightrope around him and we were worried that she was going to grow tired of him. Grow tired of having him around. Wouldn't be the first time, not even the second. In 1988, Rick and his wife gave birth to their first child. Don came to visit them in the hospital,
Starting point is 00:18:01 and he told his son that things had been tough lately. That him and Terry weren't getting along. He was actually thinking about a divorce and things like that. I remember him point blank saying that, which I found surprising because, well, they had only been married eight years, but, you know, it was, he was pretty dedicated to her businesses and all those kinds of things, but I think he was starting to get fed up with just everything going on and people dying. Don told him he wanted out. Nothing about the conversation worried Rick though.
Starting point is 00:18:36 Candidly, Rick didn't think it was such a bad idea. It was time to say goodbye and good riddance to Terry G. A few months later, Janna got a phone call from their mom, Alice. And she told me that he died and that he basically took his life because he was dying of cancer, and this is what they told her, he was dying of cancer, and he did not want to be a burden to his family, so he killed himself in the hotel. And I remember screaming going,
Starting point is 00:19:18 he didn't die of cancer, he didn't have cancer. You know, that's a bunch of bullshit. You know, I just remember screaming that out going, oh great, so she's done it again. This episode is brought to you by Dyson On Track. Dyson On Track headphones offer best-in-class noise cancellation and an enhanced sound range, making them perfect for enjoying music and podcasts. Get up to 55 hours of listening with active noise cancelling enabled, soft microfiber cushions engineered for comfort, and a range of colors and finishes. Dyson On Track. Headphones remastered. Buy from DysonCanada.ca. With ANC on, performance may vary based on environmental conditions and usage accessories sold separately.
Starting point is 00:20:08 This holiday season, the Center for Addiction and Mental Health is counting on your support. CAMH is on a mission to make better mental health care for all a reality. And they've made incredible strides forward, breaking down stigma, improving access to care, and pioneering research breakthroughs. But now is the time to aim even higher.
Starting point is 00:20:26 You can help create a world where no one is left behind. Donate at camh.ca slash donate now from December 23rd to the 31st and your gift will be tripled for three times the impact. I'm sorry to have to put you through this this way. I love you all very much and you always hate to hurt the ones you love. In the fall of 1988, Dawn recorded three messages on VHS. One for Terry and her daughters, one for CDBMS, and one for his kids, Rick and Janet. I had a lot of trouble braiding up in Colorado this year. I went to the doctor when I got back and he ran some tests and found that I had
Starting point is 00:21:30 terminal non-alcoholic cancer. I wasn't too thrilled about that announcement so I went to a second doctor. He told me the same thing. So, just to be sure, I went to a third doctor. And he told me the same thing. One video goes on for 40 minutes. Don is in their bedroom at Terry's house in Dallas, sitting at the edge of the bed in a white and blue striped shirt unbuttoned in the front. It had always been a fear of Don's, his kids remembered, to waste away from a disease like cancer.
Starting point is 00:22:19 Dad worked at Brackenridge Hospital here in Austin when he was in college. And he would see when somebody got cancer, he made up his mind then, if he ever got cancer, then he would just take his life and get it over with. I'm seeing what chemotherapy does to people. It puts them through a lot of pain and a lot of suffering and a lot of agony. It seems like 95% of the time they just suffer for another six months or a year and then die. Dawn is withdrawn in the video, disassociated, at least to me. And perhaps that's how anyone might look on a video like this.
Starting point is 00:23:12 I decided that I would not put all my loved ones through that kind of an ordeal? He also seems deliberate, like he'd thought through all the possible reasons to take his life. And this was without question the path. Resolute. He didn't want us to have to watch him pass away, but again, she made him feel like the hero. Oh, you're being a hero. You know, first you're killing evil spirits.
Starting point is 00:23:59 Now you're going to be a hero because now your family doesn't have to deal with you. And of course she, that very first meeting, our very first call, she's telling us that, oh, he had cancer. Three different doctors had told him he had cancer. It was inoperable. And I'm thinking, oh, shit. He chose a Hilton hotel in Las Calinas, Texas. I'm sure you've heard of my death, and I'm sorry to have to put you through this this way. The cause of death appeared to be a fatal cocktail of prescription medication, an overdose. When the police showed up at Terry's home to notify her of Don's death, she said she didn't even know he had cancer.
Starting point is 00:24:56 The police informed her of the drugs that were in Don's system. She said she knew he took pills, but made it seem like a doctor had prescribed them, not her. Don's autopsy no doubt revealed drugs in his system, but not what you might expect. The highest concentration of any scheduled substance in his body? MDMA. Ecstasy. So it was actually Terry that communicated that he had died to us. And I remember again also thinking, holy shit, I can't believe dad got sucked into the death ring as everybody else, but it looks like he did. Ricky, you're gonna have to be strong, you know. Don't keep all your emotions bottled up inside.
Starting point is 00:25:59 Take a cork off the bottle and let some of that stuff out. I'm very proud of that stuff out. I'm very proud of both of you. You understand? Janet, I'm sorry. I don't have any money to send you through school. He'd left instructions for his children as well about his plans. I left everything in my will to Terry so that we could avoid paying estate taxes.
Starting point is 00:26:37 Government takes a big chunk if they get a chance, so the way she won't have to pay any estate taxes. Like many people before him, Dawn left everything to Terry. For reasons that still remain so unbelievable. After all these years of talking to people in her orbit, I can still hardly believe it. Where in St. Francis, I would see something like it. And it is in dying that you are born to eternal life. And I firmly believe that. That death is just a transition from one life to another life. I'm not afraid of death.
Starting point is 00:27:34 So I'm going to be in a much better place. For the first time in a long time. I won't be in any more pain. Luke, I guess I'll line you something up to say. I love all of you very much. I wish I could be around. In the physical, I'll be around only as a bonus. But... around only as opponents. But, I just wish I could be here to help you tonight. I won't be here, Elvin. Y'all love one another.
Starting point is 00:28:28 We like knew right away what had happened. And so my brother pretended for like, you know, the first three days or first week, my brother went with Terry to the funeral home and helped make arrangements and stuff. And he also noticed how, like, cold she was. Like, she wasn't even upset in how the guy at the funeral home asked what my dad did for a living. She just said, oh, he didn't work. And my brother's like, yeah, he did. He did all those massages for people all day long every day,
Starting point is 00:29:03 so he made them put masseuse. And I remember he got so mad because she did that. And he just played it cool, like, you know, I believe you, I'm going along with this just because this is just part of that process, but knowing full well that we were going to do something because this is not right. Jim Barclow, the attorney who repped Croum and contesting Sandra Cleaver's will, heard about what happened with Don.
Starting point is 00:29:30 He reached out to my brother and introduced himself and said that he would like to represent us or whatever. In March of 89, Janet and Rick met with Jim. So we filed a wrongful death suit. Janet and Rick met with Jim. So we filed a wrongful death suit. The barrier to proof in a wrongful death suit is quite different than in a criminal case. You need to prove intent,
Starting point is 00:29:56 and you need evidence of the act of murder, circumstantial or otherwise. The smoking gun, as they say. In a wrongful death suit, you need only prove that the defendant, Terry in this case, had directly or indirectly, whether intended or not, caused a person's death. That didn't mean a conviction was guaranteed, but certainly the bar was lower. And these cases are also expensive. It's pretty common for parties to come to an out-of-court settlement
Starting point is 00:30:31 rather than let a lengthy trial play out. Almost immediately, the Hoffmans began to compile evidence, recording phone calls and rooting around in her trash. My ex-husband David would go over there every day and get their trash because it's not illegal. And he would go through the trash on our balcony in our apartment outside. They were in search of anything that would prove Terry had reason to coerce Don into taking his life, and that she took steps to do so.
Starting point is 00:31:07 I remember one time he found my dad's watch and a note that he had written to Terry telling her about how much he loves her and stuff. And I'm like, why would you throw that away? Your husband just died, and you just throw a love note and his watch away in the fricking trash? You fucking monster, I'm sorry, like no. And that just fueled the anger that we had.
Starting point is 00:31:36 How evil, really see how evil she really was, like heartless. It was very, um, just devastating. I mean, Dad was only 50 when he died, right? Yeah, it's just nuts. Rick started recording his phone calls with Terry, taking notes on everything she said. Both siblings now believed she'd had a hand in his death. They could never find any medical professional that affirmed a cancer diagnosis for Don. Terry had been pushing to have Don cremated immediately after he died,
Starting point is 00:32:14 but fortunately, because of the fact that he'd died in a different county than he'd resided in, an autopsy was in fact performed. Well, when the autopsy report came out, there was no cancer. Like, of course there's no cancer. And Terry's response was, well, the Black Lords hid it. It's like she's got an answer for everything. Had Terry known Don had wanted to leave her? Had she grown tired of him?
Starting point is 00:32:43 Some accounts of the time indicated that Terry had seemed irritated by Dawn. He'd been having some breathing issues of late, which I guess annoyed her. I don't know because my dad didn't have any money. He had a desk. That's all he had. That's all he brought away with him from the divorce was a desk. Through the years, Janet has given a lot of thought to how Terry convinced her dad, how she took an intelligent man, made him her servant,
Starting point is 00:33:13 told him he had cancer, then urged him to take his own life. Part of it is she made her followers believe that death was not final. It's not bad to kill yourself because you're just moving. You're not dying. You're moving on to the next plane of existence. And so she would always convince them that something bad has happened.
Starting point is 00:33:34 Black Lords have attacked you. You're not going to be safe. You're going to endanger your family if you stay alive. You're going to, you know, stuff like that. She makes them think they're doing this heroic thing by taking their life and moving on to the next plane of existence, you know, and it's like she feeds on this vocabulary and this belief system so that when it's time to conveniently make them move on, you know, they don't see it as, oh my god, I'm actually killing myself, I'm leaving
Starting point is 00:34:03 my family forever, you know what I mean? It's, it's, they minimize death, they don't see it as, oh my God, I'm actually killing myself. I'm leaving my family forever. You know what I mean? It's, it's, they, they minimize death. They minimize the importance of it, you know. After Don died, Rick called up one of Terry's daughters and asked if he could come over and get some of his dad's things. His guns were magically locked up or something like that because he had an old 22 rifle that I grew up shooting
Starting point is 00:34:31 and learning how to shoot. He had a double-barreled 12 gauge shotgun and he had a 30-odd-6 and never did find those. But she let me take some of his other stuff, including his bracelet that he wore. And then eventually I ended up getting his big opal that he also wore around his neck. I don't think Terry would have been as open
Starting point is 00:34:56 to allow me to go get some of his stuff, but you could tell Cathy was feeling bad about dad. you could tell Kathy was feeling bad about dad. It continued to baffle Rick and Janet and spoke perhaps to an even darker intent on Terry's part. She wasn't just interested in the financial waterfall these deaths might provide her. Perhaps in Don's case, she just wanted to get rid of him. Perhaps in Don's case, she just wanted to get rid of him.
Starting point is 00:35:30 I'm pretty convinced that she convinced him. Terry's typical mode was to find out what created the most issues for people and then leverage that against them to do things like take their life. And this twisted strategy would make a criminal conviction all but impossible. No smoking gun, no murder charge. If the DA can't make a case stick against Terry, maybe they could stop her for good this time. The body count was just too high.
Starting point is 00:36:04 But that's not what happened. Something interesting came up in the process of reporting the story. Remember those counseling sessions between Terry and Dorothy? Turns out two people provided those tapes to us. One was anonymous and wished to remain so. And the second set of tapes were stashed away in Rick's attic,
Starting point is 00:36:30 collecting dust for years. They're the same recordings, and Rick can't remember how he got access to them. But there is one distinguishing factor. On Rick's tapes, the recordings have dates. And that conversation Terry had, the one about eating chopped ham and making love all day to Don? The love that Don and I had and when we made love was just totally pure.
Starting point is 00:37:06 They were recorded after Dawn's suicide. A bizarre reminiscence about your dead spouse. The kind of thing you might say to subtly compel your most faithful followers into believing that you could never dream of harming a man, that you just love so much. But like everything else in Terry's world, the dreams were more like nightmares.
Starting point is 00:37:34 Nightmares that most certainly always came true. Next on Scary Terry. They were two searchers who were really, really tortured and went deeper and deeper and deeper into dark places at the very time that they were being persuaded that they were going to light places. These journals describe increasing confusion, frustration, and then ultimately physical discomfort at how messed up life seemed to them. And ultimately, those journals included talk of bullets. ["Scarey Terry," by The Binge to the World plays in background.]
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