The Binge Cases: U R NEXT - My Mother’s Lies | 5. The Confessions

Episode Date: April 29, 2026

Witnesses are held and interrogated in a seedy hotel by investigators. These Drury Inn confessions would prove controversial. Want the full story? Binge every episode of My Mother’s Lies ad-free now by subscribing to The Binge+. You’ll unlock over 60 true crime series instantly, get early access to drops on the first of every month, and hear exclusive bonus episodes. Search for the channel on Apple Podcasts or head to GetTheBinge.com. For behind-the-scenes details, join our free newsletter at Patreon.com/TheBinge. My Mother’s Lies is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and Message Heard. Follow @sonypodcasts and discover more at sonymusic.com/podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices at podcastchoices.com/adchoices. The Binge — feed your true crime obsession. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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bitch. Learned about nothing. You start now, you ain't even getting close to the truth. Tamara, look at you. You look pathetic. You look so pathetic.

Faking those tears, rocking in that chair, and telling that lie. Girl, look. You're not talking to a fool. It's March 23, 2007. This police tape shows a young black woman sitting behind a table,

swaying from side to side, tears rolling down her face. The investigators you can hear questioning her are agents Lee Wise and Bob O'Neill from the Kentucky Bureau of Investigation. They set off camera. Only a hand can be seen gesturing towards her. It's Agent Wise you can hear speaking aggressively, saying he doesn't believe her tears are real.

I didn't do nothing. I have nothing to do with it. What do you mean? I have nothing to do with nothing anything. You see, it's going to get locked up maybe tonight. I'm going to tell you truth. Look at me. Look at me.

Tamara Caldwell was 27 at the time of this recording. No matter how many times she tells the investigators she doesn't know anything, they don't believe her. I'm not saying. As you sit there, see you. Don't know nothing. They don't tell me to say what? Nothing.

What's the relationship between you and Q? You're trying to act like you don't know Q? No, I'm not saying I don't know him. The Q, Agent Bob O'Neill is referring to, is Quincy Cross. The agents claim Tamara was there with her boyfriend, Quincy, the night of Jessica Curran's murder. But Tamara insists she wasn't even introduced to Quincy until two years after the murder. She had just given birth.

was a month or so postpartum when Jessica was killed. Tamara certainly wasn't out partying. But Agent Wise isn't listening. Or rather, he isn't getting what he wants. You're sitting there crying, but your eyes are evil. And you know what I'm talking about? You're sitting there doing what you haven't done for your entire life. Now let me tell you.

I can sit there and put you where I want to put you when I want to put you. What is Agent Wise talking about? I can put you where I want to put you. What is that supposed to mean? Sounds like a threat to me that he can put her in prison whenever he likes, that he has the power to do that, so she'd better give him what he wants. This is hard for me to listen to.

For the record, there is zero proof that this young woman was involved. or even witnessed the crime. In fact, her name hadn't come up in any investigation until shortly before this interview, seven years after the crime was committed. I know the story 100% are written. Don't let your story deviate from what I know and what Agent O'Me knows.

The quote, story Agent Wise is referring to is the final version of events that would eventually be presented at trial. It had been extracted from what we could now infamously call the Drury Inn interviews. Over a number of weeks in the spring of 2007, new suspects and witnesses were rounded up and taken to the Drury Inn, an out-of-town hotel, not a police station, and nearby Paducah. Tamara Caldwell was one of the last of these interrogations. Where these new witnesses came from, what new accusations emerged, and how that final story took shape was largely thanks to the KBI's top informant, Susan Galbraith.

From Sony Music Entertainment and Message Heard, you're listening to My Mother's Lies. This is episode 5, The Confessions. Let's go back to late 2006, six months before the Drury Inn interviews. The investigation into Jessica's murder was well into its sixth year and seemed to be going nowhere. The Curranes were understandably frustrated with the lack of developments. So Jessica's father, Joe, made an impassioned plea to Kentucky's then- Attorney General, Greg Stumbo, to put a special prosecutor on the case. Actually, this is the second time he'd made this appointment.

I talked to him, and he said, I'm going to send somebody down. Well, the first time he sent that, he said that he didn't send nobody down. But the second time I talked to him about it, he said, I'll send somebody down to work on that cast. This time Greg Stumbo announces publicly, he will act to finally solve the case, making good on his earlier pre-election promise to Joe Curran. So then he sent Wise and O'Neill. So that's when the third investigative body was appointed to try and solve Jessica's murder, the Kentucky Bureau of Investigation, or KBI. And though that might sound familiar, they are not the FBI. They're a special investigative arm of the Kentucky Attorney General's Office. The two agents assigned to the case are Robert Bob O'Neill and Lee Wise, both

imposing plain-clothed detectives who had worked in Louisville, Kentucky. But it seems neither of them had worked homicides before, a recurring theme in this story. Nevertheless, they arrived in Mayfield in early September 2006 tasked with assisting the Kentucky State Police, but immediately they took charge. They started by taking the existing case files and picking up the state police's leads. You can probably see what's coming.

Before they even arrive in town, before they even take a meeting with the currents, they're on the phone with some. citizen sleuth, Susan Galbraith. After the tense relationship she had with the state police under Sam Steger, this was quite the turnaround. Speaking here in 2012, she recalls how impressed the KBI were with her work on the case. They called and introduced herself to me and had came by my home and I had started showing them the case file that I had, that I had accumulated as well as notes, tapes, all of that. from then on, we just hit it off immediately.

And according to Bob O'Neill, speaking with the same journalist, the feeling was mutual. She was so helpful to us and that if there was a person that we needed to interview, several days before we even came to Mayfield, we would call Susan and tell Susan, this is the person that we're trying to find, and she would have the information for us. If you read through Susan's emails and compare them to the KBI report as a person, we've done. You can see just how closely they coordinated their efforts. Susan's name appears more than 15 times over a six-month investigative period. During one witness interview, the agents even appeared to phone Susan just to check some details. As Agent O'Neill himself said,

Susan was part of the team. Susan worked with us. She called us whenever she needed something, and we called her whenever we needed something. You know, I just felt like since she was one, one of us. Look, I can understand the temptation to lean on Susan. They're coming in cold, tasked with getting this thing solved. Susan knows the case. She knows the community. She has a compelling story.

And by this point, she also has a number of new leads to follow. First up is Jeffrey Burton. I figured she's going to put the whole thing together. All I know what Susan said is a damn lie. This whole thing is a damn lie. This is the first time we've mentioned Jeff's name. That's because his name hasn't been part of the investigation until now. It seems to have emerged out of the blue.

In 2005, five years after Jessica's murder, while refining her story, Susan came across a reference to there being a couple of unnamed white guys at the Chris Drive party with Quincy. Asking around, the name Jeff Burton comes up, a white guy who was known to frequent parties in Mayfield back in 2000. Was he one of those unnamed white men? When she finds out that Jeff used to live near the middle school,

bingo, guilt by proximity. Susan goes ahead and includes him in the next iteration of her murder story. These are some excerpts from her email to Tom Mangold from August 18, 2005, edited slightly to make it more understandable.

Once again, Brace yourself. At approximately 235, Venetia is approached by a white Cadillac as she is walking home. The occupants are Austin Leach, Quincy Cross, and or Jeff Burton. At approximately 240, the white Cadillac pulls up alongside Jessica. Jessica gets into the back seat with Quincy and Jeff Burton. Quincy, who is high from drink and cocaine, has been looking for a girl. to have sex with all evening.

He can no longer contain himself. I believe he put his belt around her neck in the car trying to control her. Jeff Burton lives a few houses from there, and Austin parks his car at Jeff's house. When the car door is opened, Jessica tries to escape. She runs back to the middle school. She's panting, scared for her life. The boys are chasing her.

Quincy reaches and catches the belt. Austin gets in front of her and unzipped his pants. Austin punches her. I'll stop there to spare you the rest of her graphic account. But the way she writes it, it feels more like a pulp thriller or a B-movie screenplay, hardly an evidence-based account. Now, this is where it gets really bizarre and really bad for Jeff Burton. Around the same time, Susan heard another rumor that someone's basement

had been searched by the state police relating to Jessica's murder. She decides to swing by Jeff's now vacant property, just a few blocks from the school. This is how she later described it to Tom. I looked for a basement. As I walked around the house, I saw a garage. The air was still. I crept over to the door and was overwhelmed with a feeling of dread.

I didn't go in for fear of tainting the scene. For the next 20 years, Jeffrey Burton would watch, wonder how his old garage suddenly became suspected of being the scene of the crime. Recently, he sat down with our investigative producer, Alice. She showed him these emails written by Susan. It's the first time he's seen them. That's so crazy because here you are, 2000, what, you're seven. Okay, Jessica Curry was murdered in 2000, seven years prior.

So you go to my house that has been abandoned for at least several months, I say. If the back door is ripped open, ain't no telling who's been in there. You know, it's abandoned. That's just insane. Insane is certainly one way to put it. I'm speechless. At this point, it's like Susan is scouting for locations for her scripted narrative. Here's Jeff, reading Susan's own words.

God's just telling me. I have no proof of it, but as long as I, it's just amazing. It's my mind-boggling is what it is to me. I agree. I mean, where's her proof? God's telling me. What was she basing this latest theory on? Divine intervention?

This could all be dark comedy if Jeffrey Burton hadn't ended up facing such horrible, life-changing consequences due to Susan's actions when she passed his name onto the KBI. Here's another email from January 2007. I made my way back to the car and called Lee Wise. I was so excited.

I knew I had finally found where they had Jessica. I knew this house was connected to her. It's hard to explain it. Well, no kidding, it's hard to explain. There's no factual basis for it. And yet, the KBI log shows Susan named Jeff as one of the partygoers at the house party on Chris Drive with Quincy, the night of Jessica's murder.

On January 17, 2007, Jeff was interviewed by the agents. As you'll hear, he's incredulous. You know, I have got to realize this is 2007. When did this happen? It's been seven years ago. It's not really possible for me to remember what I was doing particular days out of my life like that. I mean, it's dinner impossible.

Ever since I've seen that show in my space, I've been trying and trying to think about, why is my name on here, and what does that party they're talking about? Where does this shit come to play? Because I've never seen any of this shit. as far as the stuff with Jessica Carter. Here comes the next twist in the tale.

Why on earth is Jeff talking about Myspace? That's the early social networking site and where Susan Galbraith comes in again. You see, at some point, Susan had created a MySpace page about Jessica's murder for people to comment on and where they could get in touch with her. And on it, she lists five people of interest in the murder investigation,

shamelessly casting public suspicion on them. As you just heard, Jeff Burton wasn't too thrilled to find himself publicly implicated. Here he is again talking to our producer, Alice. So I believe initially I'm at work. And all of my coworkers, I'm like, you know, get on my space, look at this thing.

So we get on, I'm just like, you know, what do I do? Oh my God, you know what I mean? While Jeff was trying to figure out what this all meant, Susan's MySpace got another hit. Someone who'd seen her page decided to get in touch, someone who would prove catastrophic for Quincy Cross, the young black man visiting from Tennessee when Jessica was murdered. Her name was Victoria Caldwell.

Back in 2000, Victoria was the 15-year-old witness who disappeared from Mayfield shortly after implicating two men in Jessica's murder. Jessica's boyfriend Lolo Saxton and Jeremy Adams, the father of Jessica's son. Still in her early 20s, she was now living in California with her own children. Victoria responded to Susan's friend request, and then, after a few days of communicating, the extent of which we'll never know, Victoria agreed to talk to Susan's friends at the KBI. By the time Agents Wise and O'Neill drove out to meet her in person, Victoria had a very different story to tell from the one she told shortly after the murder.

She's now ready to name Quincy as a suspect. But it sounds like she's worried about changing her previous story. No. Why would you think that? If we're not KSP, we're not Mayfield, I told us, with none of those, to the Attorney General's office, okay? And we are the high law here, and we are here to do one thing. resolve this case. And it's evident at this time through our first conversation with you that you want to play an important role in helping us do this, okay? So just relax. Now, it's difficult to overstate what happens next. This is the precise moment when Susan's narrative stops being a theory thrown around by email, posted on website, spread by the rumor mill.

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March 25th, 2007. The Drury Inn Suites, Paducah, Kentucky, 25 miles north of Mayfield. Victoria Caldwell sits in a straight back chair in a dreary hotel room. She wears casual clothes, a yellow hotel floor lamp, cast light across her left shoulder. KBI agents Lee Wise and Bob O'Neill ask the same questions, again and again. But Victoria seems composed like she's trying hard to remember the details. I don't know if I had Woodhole or oh no. Her story has already changed

a fair bit since Susan Galbraith first connected them, but the details are still a little hazy, as is the sequence of events. In Victoria's latest version, instead of Quincy burning the body at the school with the others that night, he now

leaves the crime scene to return to the party on Chris Drive, leaving Jeff Burton to dispose of Jessica her body. She said Jeff then stored her body in his shed behind his house, then burned it two days later behind the middle school. The body started to kind of smell, had like a stench to it, and so we need to get rid of the body. So you and Venetia and Jepard, what did you do? We put the body to the school. How did you get the body to the school? I don't know what's his car. I'm not sure.

What did the car look like? I think it was an old woman, though. What thing is the old woman, though? What color was it? It was the white car. White car. Victoria still seems unsure of the specifics, like who picks up who and what car, what weapon was used to kill Jessica, where the gas came from,

and her story will keep evolving over the coming weeks. But it's enough to start cross-revelling. referencing with other witnesses. Like Jessica's cousin, Venetia Stubblefield, remember her? She ends up at the jury in, too. For the last six years and through 16 separate police interviews, Jessica's cousin, Venetia, has maintained her story, that she last saw Jessica around 1.30 or 2 a.m. walking down Walnut Street.

Now, under intense questioning by the state police, who are now very much aligned with the KBI investigation, her story finally pivots and points to Quincy Cross. So what did he pull out from underneath the seat? Or in the foreboard or underneath the other seat? He reached under the seat and he pulled out a gun and said it in his lap. Okay. Is that what an instructor in the back of the head? A gun? I don't know what the gun it was, but I know you're sure it was. It wasn't a bad or a ranch or a... I didn't see no bed and I didn't see no wrench.

I see any gun. You saw a gun. I see no gun. What you saw, that's what I want to know. I don't want to know anything else. Apparently, Quincy beat Jessica with a gun. That's new information. Then, Benicia says, Quincy carried the unconscious Jessica inside and later on the floor.

But that doesn't quite match up with Victoria's version. Then, with what seems like some pretty direct prompting. by the cops, her story starts to align closer with Victoria's. When I walked in there, she was letting on the floor. She had her on that bed, didn't he? Benisha. Come on, girl. Be strong here, right?

When I walked in the room, he had Jessica on the bed, and when he was on top of her beating her, at that time he was beating her with a bed. Talk about leading the witness. You can actually hear her story changing under questioning. Look, eyewitness testimony can be flawed at the best of times, especially after so many years, but Victoria and Benicia's interviews throw up all kinds of inconsistencies. Victoria is picked up by Benicia.

Benicia is picked up by Victoria. There's one car, then two, then a third. Is Jessica conscious or unconscious when they arrive at Jeff's? Was it a bat, a gun, or a wrench? Was she taken to the middle school that night, or was it two days later? And remind me, is Jeff White or Burr? black because he's been described as both. As I said, there are places on these tapes where it seems like you can hear the cops

coaching them what to say. I'm not trying to rush at all, but I'm going to ask you a question, okay, and you've got to be honest with me. Isn't it true that Jeff poured that, poured a bottle full of gas and y'all went over there and dumped the body there out of the trunk of that car? And then he forced you to strike that match, didn't he after he dumped the gas on there? Is that correct? Yes.

All right. Despite all the contradictions, they now have two eyewitnesses to the murder of Jessica Curran. They aren't just eyewitnesses. They both confess to being involved and are ready to implicate the others. Next up are the accused. Quincy Cross, the outsider who happened to have gasoline on him, Jeff Burton, the guy with a garage, and Tamara Caldwell. Victoria's cousin, who briefly dated Quincy about two years after the murder.

It's no surprise that none of them confess. They're all outraged and, frankly, in utter disbelief. Oh, my gosh. I don't know nothing about her being raped. I don't know. What about the pictures that was taken at night when y'all murdered Jessica? I don't know about that. No, I don't know nothing.

The KBI presses on, pulling in more supporting witnesses, largely drawn from the young, vulnerable women of Mayfield. You're sitting here beating us back because you don't want to talk about somebody sucking and fucking. We are all grown. We know what happened in there. We already know it. We can't tell you everything because you know it has got to come from you. Now, I'm going to tell you, if you don't start talking to us, we're just going to get up and leave. Because we can't keep clueing you in on this, okay?

After a whirlwind few weeks, the case is finally presented to a grand jury. On March 30th, 2007, five individuals are indicted and the charges are announced to the press. Quincy Cross, now 31 years old, is still living with the grandma who helped raise him in Tennessee when his life came to a shuddering halt. He's charged with capital kidnapping, capital murder, sodomy in the first degree, rape in the first degree, abuse of a corpse, and tampering with physical evidence, and four counts of intimidation. Tamara Caldwell, the new mother who had given birth just weeks before Jessica's murder, she's charged with the same offenses. Jeff Burton, the white guy with a garage

who happened to live near the school, the same minus the sodomy charge. Jessica's cousin, Benicia Stubblefield and Tamara's cousin, Victoria Caldwell, are both charged with abuse of a corpse and tampering with physical evidence. But they both immediately plead guilty to reduce charges in exchange for testifying against Quincy, Tamara, and Jeff, who all plead not guilty. Benicia and Victoria get this sweet deal so long as they are truthful in their testimony against the other three. And so after just six months, the KBI swoop. in and located witnesses, exposed suspects and extracted statements that the local police and state police failed to do on their own in over six years.

But before they even get to trial, they waste no time in commending their star informant, Susan Galbraith. Susan is triumphant and receives the Outstanding Citizen Award we've told you about. She's celebrated not just locally, but on the national news. This is the award. That's from Greg Stumbo, the attorney. Attorney General at the time. Hey, this is weird.

It says 2006, but they weren't arrested until March 2007. That's kind of weird, no? To get the award before anything's happened? Sure. The fact that Susan's award is backdated to 2006 is in itself intriguing. But to her son, Ray, at that time, it seemed like an incredible achievement,

like his mom had finally achieved something good. I was very proud of my mom for everything that she had done, And the award that she received, it was all, it was pretty cool. And when did that outlook change for you? It all changed for me, probably after about a month of looking into all the stuff that she had. Over the years, he'd started to guess at some things. Doubts emerged. He heard rumors. Plus, he knew his mom's character well enough.

She had a way with getting what she wanted. In her mind, she's used to being right. So if it's what she says, then more than likely she thinks she's right enough to stand behind it. Whether his mom ever really believed her story deep down, believed in Quincy's guilt, is another thing Ray wrestles with today. Over the years, the more he's thought about those indictments, the list of charges, all the people supposedly involved, well, the less and less plausible, it all feels. I can see one sicko being in a, you know, you can randomly find one sicko, but to have, find three or four people that could do this to somebody. I mean, that's unheard of.

It's just sick what the story is that happened. It's almost unbelievable. I mean, yeah, it's very unbelievable. I'd say Ray makes a good point. But at the end of the day, it's what a jury will believe that matters most. Three decades ago, a young woman named Angie Dodge is found brutally murdered in Idaho. Falls, police put a man behind bars. But as the years pass, doubts emerge about whether the real killer was ever caught. That's when Angie's own mother embarks on a decades-long mission to uncover

the truth. Listen to The Snare, a new series from ABC Audio. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts. The trial is set for March 2008. At the time of his arrest, Quincy was unemployed and bouncing between jobs, and as you heard, he's living with his grandmother. He just hasn't got the means to pay for some fancy defense team. So public defender, Vince Eustace, is appointed to represent him. Attorney Eustace is now deceased. In fact, he was in poor health when he took this case and died shortly after it. Here is Kentucky Attorney Miranda Hellman, a lawyer for the Innocence Project who would come to represent Quincy later on. There were things going on with Vince during this trial that it was obvious he wasn't well, he wasn't himself,

and that he had not put the preparation into this case that he needed to. Vince going to trial while also working other cases, with these 40,000 pages of documents, he just really had no idea what was there. But even defense attorney Eustace could see Susan Galbraith was all over the police files. It just became very obvious that she was involved in some way. And so there was a subpoena issued for her,

to come into the courthouse during the Quincy pre-trial, you know, Quincy and his co-defendants pre-trial proceedings, and bring in her investigation file and even potentially her computer to be searched for any evidence related to the investigation of this case. The subpoena is demanding that she hand over the totality of her case file, her notes, her covert recordings, her communications, everything she has in relation to this case. Now, that's That should have included all the emails you've been hearing throughout this series, the ones where she shaped a narrative about a sex-crazed, drug-fueled outsider, Quincy Cross, raping, strangling, and burning the body of Jessica Curran,

a story that grew to include a cast of Mayfield locals, both witnesses and accomplices over the course of a four-year investigation. This should have been a chance for Susan's story and her role to be put on trial alongside her accusations, that is, if she had complied and actually turned everything over. Susan never turned over anything that she created. She never turned over any emails, any notes, any recordings herself. Those would be the emails, notes, and recordings that we've now got access to that you've been listening to in this series. Most of it shared with us by her son, Ray.

And so as a subpoena issued to her to bring all of her things, I don't think she actually complied with it at all. It seems that Susan was repeatedly called to the courthouse during pretrial hearings. But each time she downplayed or denied having more materials to hand over. But as we can now see in her emails, Susan was clearly concerned about the subpoena. Writing here to Tom, she even mentions taking advice from the KBI on how to avoid complying with it. I met with my friends today and was told not to worry about anything concerning my PC. I was told, even if they subpoena my hard drive, as a private citizen, I can do whatever

I want with my computer except break the law. Here, she's gloating to Tom about how she dealt with the defense's requests. I was asked if I had the papers I was supposed to bring. I told them I didn't feel I should have to tell him anything and that I would rather tell it to the court. Susan would get her wish. She would have her day in court. That's part of why we wanted to make this podcast, so you get to hear what the jury never heard, what the judge and attorneys didn't know at the time. The full scope of Susan's role in what was about to unfold. It's seven days into the trial. So far, the jury has heard from the currents, the Chris Drive partygoer, law enforcement, and numerous other witnesses.

Susan strolls up to the witness stand. She's a galbraith. You just have a seed, and I'll remind you that you remain under oath. Yes, sir. She's wearing jeans, her hair is dyed black and tied up. She's chewing gum. Good afternoon. After establishing that she has no prior involvement with legal cases,

the prosecution discusses her role, conducting covert interviews and working with the police. When the subject of her subpoena comes up, She's asked directly, under oath, if she handed everything over. Ma'am, did you just hand you? Yeah, I'm sorry, I got bad habits. You brought all your interviews and your panglers and you turned those over. Yes.

Just to break the scene for a second, according to Miranda Hellman, this is a lie. As far as her testimony being truthful, I don't believe it was, and I think that's very provable now. And still to this day, I think we're still missing a ton of information that Susan had. Back to the trial. Be back. in the jury box at five minutes still through. Susan Down plays her role at every turn. For instance, here's her response when asked about Jeremy's mother, Donna Adams.

Jeremy was, of course, one of the original suspects and the father of Jessica's son. What is your relationship to Donna Adams? acquaintances. Did you consider her a friend? I don't, I don't, I really don't think that I would even consider it that. That'd be the same Donna she used to party with. The same Donna, who we now know, got her involved in the first place to try and clear her son Jeremy from suspicion. Susan continues minimizing her role, evading questions, and offering meandering unsolicited opinions.

Whether she intends to sow confusion or is just feeling the pressure is unclear, but both the prosecution and the defense and finally the judge struggle to keep her on track. Defense Attorney Eustace eventually complains to the judge. She's on this as to so... Thanks. Ms. Galbra, if you would listen carefully to the question and just respond to the question only. Okay. All right.

In the end, the judge seems so confused by Susan's presence at the trial and even asks why she's there. Why have you pulled this witness in to ask her a series of questions? Now, you can just about hear from this whispered bench conference that defense attorney Eustace actually had a pretty good idea of why Susan was there.

The issue is that we're saying that it was her, it was her with the names of Quincy Cross and everybody else in the spotlight and targeted that. She was the source of it. I'll let you go away in that direction because that's what this witness has been all about, I guess. Yes, that's right. Although I have not followed it. As you can hear, defense attorney Eustace is having a hard time establishing Susan's involvement in the investigation to the judge. All right, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we're going to take a brief recess.

Still struggling to get to the bottom of why Susan's part of this trial, the judge and attorneys eventually call her into the judge's chambers. The defense wants clarity from Susan about her MySpace page, away from the jury, but still on the record. under oath. This is her response. One asked why Quincy's name was even on her persons of interest list. Why was Quincy outbound here? I know he killed. I just know he killed. I just know he killed her. She doesn't offer evidence, just her opinion. Before they let her go, they discuss her undercover recording of Quincy, where Susan repeats many of her recollections, that he knew, quote, exactly what kind of belt was used to kill Jessica. And I saw the crime scene photo of the belt around her neck,

and it was a black-braided belt. There was no crappy photo. A belt around the neck. Okay, it might have been on the autopsy. I'm not really sure what to make of this. Susan says under oath that she couldn't forget the photo of the belt around Jessica's neck. And then the defense lawyer corrects her. Nowhere in the evidence is there a photo or any physical proof.

of a belt being around Jessica's neck, not from the crime scene or the autopsy, despite Susan's claims. Susan's eventually dismissed from the Chambers conference. Thank you. Thank you. And I don't know, we never have two gone, but I've got, like, bad, the sore throat, and I wanted to just try to keep it in myself.

No, right. Thank you. God bless all of you. Susan eventually leaves, and there are a few chuckles. It's hard to know how seriously they really took her. Oh, yeah. Thank you. In any case, All right, what's the next guy? In any case,

while Susan's part in the trial may be finished, her theory isn't. The issue of Quincy's belt stays central to the prosecution's line of questioning. For example, a state trooper who was at the crime scene gets himself twisted up trying to clarify things.

Here's defense attorney Eustace pushing him for an answer. Okay, so when you said it out around her neck, that's not correct. I don't know if it was. It was a burnt charred piece lying there by the victim's neck. So it's by the neck, not around the neck. I'm just sitting honestly say that I can recall directly where it was now.

Later, the medical examiner who had been one of the early sources for the strangulation theory back in 2000, on the stand now, isn't so sure. He confirms that there was no obvious ligature mark or physical evidence of strangulation. In fact, he admits that he only mentioned strangulation in his report because he was told by the police that there was a fragment of belt near Jessica's neck. I don't need to emphasize how flimsy this all seems, why forensic evidence is so critical. At this point, witness testimony becomes incredibly powerful, and that's where Victoria Caldwell and Benicia Stubblefield come in. And the defense will have some questions for you now. The testimony of the two women.

at trial, shows how their stories have evolved over the previous year. Most of the timeline issues have been resolved, and the order of events is more consistent. But there are still plenty of discrepancies, starting with where Jessica was picked up from. Here's Victoria. Jessica was at your house when you went, got in a car with Quincy? Yes. And here's Venetia. When we picked her up, he was still walking along the night. She was probably like a block and a half from our when you were standing. When you say goodbye to her? Yes.

The cars are still confusing. Same white car that you drill from Chris Drive? No. A different white car. Yes. Jessica is both conscious and unconscious on her way into Jeff's house. It goes on, and many of the facts presented will remain unreconciled. But let's focus on the other key word that has persisted from the beginning, the gas.

Again, remember, there's no physical evidence of gasoline, what kind of accelerant was used or where it came from. All we have is the fact that Quincy smelled of gas and the body was burned with something. Both Victoria and Benicia are aligned on this part of the story. They both testify that Jessica's body was kept in Jeff's shed for two days after the murder. They both confess to helping Jeff Burton burn Jessica's body at the source. school while Quincy was in jail on drug charges. So in the final version at trial, the fact that Quincy had gas on him, the fact that first drew Susan's suspicions to him is completely irrelevant. Quincy silently watches all this unfold from behind a table. All he can do is whisper to his attorney.

But at this point, Quincy was basically helpless to stop what was about to happen. Despite the confusion over the belt, the gasoline, and the absence of any DNA evidence, the narrative, the story that has grown over the years, the story that has been shared and re-shared, honed and rehashed by Susan, Tom, the Kentucky State Police, and the KBI. A horrifying story relayed by two eyewitnesses, both of whom also confess their involvement, is apparently simply too shocking to be made. up. The jury has heard enough. On Tuesday, April 8, 2008, Quincy Cross is found guilty on all counts and receives a life sentence for the rape and murder of Jessica Curran. But this is not the end of

the story. Far from it. That flimsy narrative we heard at trial that held together just long enough to get a conviction quickly starts to unravel. Witnesses recant their testimony. I was long, and I was taking advantage of. I had no guidance. I had really no help support, no nothing. Nobody would say, hey, like, no, you can't question her. You can't do this.

You never had that. But if Quincy would have any chance of regaining his freedom, then Susan's role in this mess would have to finally be exposed. We were at this strange place where we had years of emails that told the extent of Susan's meddling that could have been used to get Quincy, you know, off the charges. And so the next stage was, well, we need to give this evidence to someone. That someone was the Kentucky Innocence Project, Quincy's new legal team. And that evidence might just be Quincy's best shot at freedom yet.

I just hope that the truth comes out and that the jury sees the full picture and not just the untruthfulness that they got the first time. That's next time on our final episode of My Mother's Lies. At the time of release, we have not received a response from the Kentucky State Police, the Office of the Attorney General of Kentucky, former state trooper Sam Steger, or former KBI agent Lee Wise, regarding allegations reported in this episode. A legal representative for former KBI agent Bob O'Neill responded by email saying he, quote, categorically denies the narrative and the specific allegations. Tom Mangold confirmed by email that he stands by his reporting. Unlock all episodes of My Mother's Lies, ad-free right now by subscribing to the binge podcast channel.

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you listen. This is My Mother's Lies, an original production of Sony Music Entertainment and Message Heard, hosted by me, Beth Karras. From Message Heard, Alice Arnold is our investigator producer, Robin Simon, our producer, McAllister Bexson, our series producer, Tiago Diaz, our assistant producer. Alan Lear is our supervising sound editor, supported by sound editors Lizzie Andrews and Ivan Easley, with original composition by Mike. Mainz. From Sony Music Entertainment, our executive producers are Catherine St. Louis and Jonathan Hirsch. From Blink Films, our executive producer is Justine Kershaw, and a big thanks to the whole Sony Music Entertainment team.