The Bobby Bones Show - 25W: Harbaugh Accepts Slap on the Wrist + Bengals are Done + Fox Sports Radio's Doug Gottlieb + ESPN's Betting Expert Joe Fortenbaugh + A New Game!

Episode Date: November 17, 2023

Jim Harbaugh has officially accepted the 3-game suspension handed down from the BIG10, Bobby shares his thoughts. Plus, Fox Sports Radio host and former Oklahoma State basketball star, Doug Gottlieb joins Bobby to talk about being top 10 in assists, the Michigan scandal and more! ESPN's betting expert, Joe Fortenbaugh also joins Bobby to talk about his journey from Pennsylvania to Vegas, betting skids, and the influence T-Swift can have on a game. And the guys play a new 'Top 10' game.    Download the DraftKings Sportsbook App today: https://dkng.co/bobbysports   If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537) (IL/IN/MI/NJ/PA/WV/WY), 1-800-NEXT STEP (AZ), 1-800-522-4700 (CO/NH), 888-789-7777/visit http://ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-BETS OFF (IA), 1-877-770-STOP (7867) (LA), 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY), visit OPGR.org (OR), call/text TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN), or 1-888-532-3500 (VA).   21+ (18+ WY). Physically present in AZ/CO/CT/IL/IN/IA/LA/MI/NJ/ NY/PA/TN/VA/WV/WY only. N/A in NH/OR/ON. New customers only. Valid 1 per new customer. Min. $5 deposit. Min $5 wager. $200 issued as eight (8) $25 free bets. Ends 9/19/22. See http://draftkings.com/sportsbook for details.       Follow the Show: @25Whistles   Follow the Crew: @MrBobbyBones @ProducerEddie @KickoffKevin @MikeDeestro @ReidYarberry      See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hello. You want me to blow? Hello? Hello, Edel. Please blow the whistle, please. Let's go. The game last night was very interesting. Very interesting.

And I'll talk about my betting situation in a second. Not that you just care about my bets, but it's just I was cooked. My goose was cooked immediately, and then I had to slowly wade out of the cooked water. Oh, my God. It was just nuts. So, that being said, Joe Burrow and the Bengals, I guess are done. Yeah. Because we're recording this first.

Friday morning before we do the radio show. So it's butt crack early. I don't know. I haven't seen anything. His finger was last week. I think his wrist was last night. He couldn't hold on to the ball. I saw him play.

I changed the channel because my wife and I were watching a couple of shows last night too. And I can't. I'm on the road tonight. And then I want to watch college football Saturday. I watch NFL Sunday. So if she wants to watch something on Thursday, I don't fight that. You got to do what you got to do. I don't. I used to. Or I used to put up, not a fight, but I'd be like, I need to watch it for my job.

But then I realize, I'm slowly realizing that, I'm not going to use the word compromise, but marriage is about knowing that you will win some battles. You will lose some battles, but it's better for the ones that you win, just fully win them without having any guilt. Yeah. I don't, could I have said, I'm watching the gate, yep. And you probably would have won that one. And I would have won it, and she wouldn't have held it against me, but I wouldn't have felt like I would have owed her something else on like Saturday, which I wouldn't have, but I, so it's just not worth it.

Smart, dude. Good job. I'm kind of getting there. And you're early in marriage, so you're figuring this out. But I've been single for way too long. Right. I mean, I was single for 40 years. Man, that, I was two years old in the dating scene. I never thought this was going to happen.

You were that, that street dog, dude. I was a baby. I was a two-year-old just picking up chicks. I was like, I'll always be single forever. Yeah. So, a couple things about the game. Number one, I guess Cincinnati's done. I can't imagine, because they fell behind so quick this year

that they kind of needed to have the run that they were about to get on. So, probably not going to make the playoffs. Yeah, especially in that division. Especially in that division. Yeah. Secondly, man, the Ravens are good. They're real good except for they are so, when they're hot, they can be anybody.

I think even San Francisco fully, loaded, they give San Francisco a real, real great matchup. Because offensively, well, Mark Andrews out for the year. Yeah, that sucks. That's brutal. And I only saw he's out for the year this morning. I knew he left the game. That sucks for them.

But I still feel extremely confident. But even Odell Beckham left the game last night. He did come back with no pads on. He was holding his shoulder. Yes. So, as I say, they're so hot when they're hot, but they also, Lamar could get hurt any point. He kept falling on his ankle.

He was limping, tripping on turf. But at the same time, he would go around the corner, no limp, hauling butt. They would still run quarterback design runs with them. What I did like about it, though, is that he would purposefully drop at times when he's about to get hit. That's what you want from a running quarterback. I thought he tripped again. He did some, yes, but then he would also go down. You're right, I did see one where he even went backwards.

Yeah, just to make sure he didn't get hit. Well, what's crazy is Logan Wilson, the linebacker for the Bengals, was involved in all three plays. That's wild. So, that, I want to mention that before. we move on with the show because it's fresh on my mind. The Mark Andrews thing sucks. Baltimore has the potential to win the whole thing. They also can lose the first round.

Like they're the highest ceiling, lowest floor team, I think, in the NFL, where they can win it all and they can also lose in the first round. And either way, we're like, oh, yeah, not super surprised. And now Hardball probably wants to win it for his brother, you know. I don't know that that's a thing, Eddie. He's wearing, they're wearing a decal on the helmets. Michigan decal. some Michigan decal.

He's got a guy on the sidelines with glasses. He's hired Stalian to work for Baltimore. This was for my brother. He starts crying after the game. Yeah, the post game, he's cursing like the other coach. So in Cincinnati, it just sucks. I like Joe Burrow. I just like Joe Burrow.

He's kind of old school, kind of new school at the same time. Really good quarterback, like, stays in the pocket for the most part. Like he's old school in that way, but new school and how he communicates, how he arrives at games, kind of his attitude. Yeah. And he's a winner,

and he turned that Cincinnati program, program outside of college, that organization from just a joke to somebody that was competitive enough that they had to not be a joke and invest more on their team. Yeah. Which is what we've seen. It really sucks.

It does suck. It does suck. They need to stop calling him Joe Cool, though. That's Montana. That's a cigarette. The cool cigarettes? Joe Cool is like the, that's not the camel?

I don't think so. Yeah, I think when they had the, Yeah, the ad's going. I think Joe Cool initially was the can't. Mike, will you look up Joe Cool? I'm going to tease the show. Because that's what they called Joe Montana. I know, but I think Joe Cool was the camel that smoked cigarettes.

Oh, gee, and that's where the name then went to Montana. You guys smokers? No. It's the name of the camel. What? I thought that was Joe Camel. I think I remember from being a lawsuit where they can't use cartoons for cigarettes or alcohol because it supposedly attracts kids to it. I know it from that.

Well, it's also listed as a men. Mandela effect that he was never called Joe cool. Who Montana? No Joe Camel. Oh Whoa whoa whoa but but I feel like he was so I feel like I live in an alternate timeline I might be right on this one boys. Well no if it's listed though it means a lot of people call them Joe cool sure but they're all wrong In my timeline that I lived on Eddie you must not have been there Hey on that same note too just a random fact that I saw I saw some documentary on Yogi Berra. Do you know Yogi Berra was no Yogi Bear was named after Yogi Berra. Yes.

Didn't know that. Oh, I didn't know that. Did you know the baby Ruth Candy Bar was named after Babe Ruth? Well, that one makes more sense. Yeah. Yogi Bear? Well, maybe because Yogi Berra wasn't that famous. The baseball player?

Yeah. Like, at the time, yes, and for baseball fans, Yankee. But, like, he's not somebody who has, you know, transcended generations. Sure. Like, my parents don't probably don't know who that is. Yogi Berra? Yeah, and Yogi Berra. Probably.

Oh, because he was big back then? Yeah. Okay. I would say like Reed doesn't know Yogi Berra is. I know who Yogi Berra. No, no. Yogi Berra. Oh, yeah, no.

He knows his a cartoon. He's a baseball player, right? Yeah, he was like a catcher for the Yankees. And he'd say, funny sayings all the time. That was his thing. But see, Reed now thinks that Yogi Berra was the, no, Yogi Bear is the... He was the catcher. Yeah, the bear.

He just heard. No. Okay. That's what I'm saying. Look, this is the thing. Coming up. We got Doug Gottlieb. Doug Gautlebe's awesome.

Fox Sports Radio. He played basketball at Oklahoma State. And we talk about his playing days because I'm super interested. I don't hear him talk about that a whole lot in his show. And I listen to him a lot. I think Doug Gottlieb's awesome. But the fact that he's still top 10 all time and assists in the NCAA, I'd be leading off the show with that every show. My voice got to be like, and now starting the show,

top 10 assists in the NCAA, Doug Gottlie. It's a big deal. So we talk about that, but we also get into the Michigan scandal and more and then also ESPN betting expert Joe Fortin Ball's on talk about his journey from Pennsylvania to Vegas and moving to Vegas to be like a gambler. That's crazy. That's crazy.

And how to end a losing streak and how Taylor Swift can influence a game. So all that's coming up. Glad you guys are here. Why don't we go over and do the tit-tat. Go. What do you think is more likely to happen after this season? Jim Harbaugh going to the NFL

or Dan Landing taking the Texas A&M job. I don't think either what happened now. I think less and less the hardball is going to go to the NFL, mostly because I don't think that Michigan would have just dug in as hard as they have with him. If, and I don't think he would have accepted the penalty that he did. You know, he said, okay, I'll take three games. Well, one of them you already did, so. I'll take two.

It's like a judge. Yeah, you get credited for time served. I don't, I now don't think he's going to go to the NFL. That had to be like a, hey, just take this gym and let's move on, right? You know my theory. Yeah. My theory is it was worked out to where they've agreed up on, I'm going to sit out three games because I know it's probably going to be a lot worse,

but if we look like we're being proactive, maybe we'll get less type thing. Because remember, they were going to like go in file a restraining order and make it not happen. Well, they're not doing that now. I wonder why. But they needed to raise a stink to make it seem like, oh, the world's against us. That's still my theory. I've not heard that anywhere else. So that's why it's probably really stupid, but that's still my theory.

that they were in on making that punishment. Because the Big Ten's also like, we're good now. You see him? We're all good. You did your three. We're all good. He's not involved, but we're good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So my theory is it benefits the Big Ten for them to win games, obviously, and for him to not be sitting out. But how can they do the least but make it seem like the most and make everybody go, that's a good punishment? That's suitable. I feel like that happened. I don't feel like he'll go to the NFL now

because I think he'd have to give him like a, private word like hey guys get my back here because i'm staying yeah um dan lenning i cannot see leaving oregon at all just can't see it i you know we uh dan campbell said he wasn't not taking the a and m job you see that no can't yeah can't from the lions no i didn't even know they yeah he's like he's not going to texan he's he's like i'm not going to texas he's like i'm not who um interviewed for our guy interviewed yeah interviewed or i don't know who my guy is yeah who's From last year we had him on whistles, UTSA. Oh, is that right?

He interviewed or they're just talking to him? I saw a report that says he interviewed for the job. That's cool. That'd be a huge jump. Let me text him. Yeah. Coach, how did the interview go? Just say that.

What do you think? Do you think I'd have him as coach in my phone? Or do you think I'd have him as? Like coach in his name? Yeah, it's just. Trailer. Coach trailer? I don't have his coach.

I just have Jeff. I have Jeff. Just Jeff? Well, I have Jeff parentheses, UTSA Coach. Okay, okay. They talk to Jeff Traylor is what it says now. Another report.

All right, I'm going to text him. A, Coach. He was awesome last year, remember? Yeah, that was good. He was funny. I hope you're doing well. Next time. We're around Central Texas.

We want to come by. was in Austin. Eddie will do the dance. Doing a charity show and almost called to see if you were available. Is that too much? I was going to say, are you writing a paragraph over there? Hey, man, are you overdoing it a little bit?

Shut up. It's a short story? He's going to wake up and be like, what? I thought about you the other day. Well, sleeping. I mean. See if you can get us some tickets? Do you like turkey?

Thanksgiving is going to be fun. Let's see next time. Dude, I have to create a conversation. No, I get it, but I mean, it's out of nowhere, you know what I mean? No, it's not because I was in Central Texas. And then you're going to end it with like... How did the interview go? In conclusion.

Next time. But you... Nah, you do you, dude, do you. I mean, you talk to him. I don't talk to him. Yeah. Hey, this worked for Jerry last year, didn't it? It's true.

I can't tell you what some of the, this final part I'm writing. You're like, San Antonio's cool. Wimby's awesome. I can't. The riverwalk's so awesome to go to this time of year. Yeah, it's like. Hey, in backspace. Stop.

Sting. Yeah. This is cool, though. This is an inside look into how you communicate with people. Oh. Still going. All right. And boom, sent.

Nice. Yeah. It's two paragraphs. Yeah, that's good. So there was a part in there that you couldn't share? Correct. Okay. It wouldn't be in my best interest, and I wouldn't.

He doesn't know. He doesn't even know him. I'm texting him. Not yet. But it's definitely. me asking a couple questions. Yeah, that's all. Okay.

There's a chance I can let you guys know what I wrote at some point, but he has to enter the chat. All right, all right. So I'm going to say Harbaal, though, more. Okay. I'm going, although I don't think either one of them were going, but if I had to pick, I would go Harbaugh. Okay.

Playing in the third straight ranked matchup this weekend. I got a text back. Already? No, you didn't. It's from him. No, it's not. Swear to God. Come on.

Let's go. You're the best. I'd love to see you holler whenever you're close. you're like question mark question mark not doing that i'm just establishing oh you haven't asked the question no i did and i said a couple things that he's not supposed to i don't want him to respond to got you just to know got you dang he got he got a quick texture well yeah when a moderately known media personality in rural america messages you you answer right back yes sir okay go ahead

okay they're playing in their third straight rank matchup this weekend do you think This is the weekend that Washington loses for the first time. Nope. And I'll tell you why. Oregon State, they're good, you know. But I think people now are going, I think Washington's going to lose. And that's usually when they don't. They're like, I think Washington may be just looking ahead.

And when people say that so much, it actually reminds people not to look ahead. When people are like, oh, this is a trap game. But they say it so much, it becomes not a trap game. No, I think they win. And handily. Easily. Oregon State's favorite, too. I know.

I think, which again is motivation. Because it's at Oregon State, so whatever amount of points. What was it at two point? I think one and a half last time I saw it. So I saw it at two, so maybe it's shifting back. And three points. In the NFL, they really don't do three points anymore. I was listening to a guy talk about betting.

It's more like a point in the NFL for a home away because it's not that big of deal. Unless you're L.A. and it's nothing. Oh, wow. Because nobody, L.A. fans don't care. Right. There are more Packer fans in an L.A. game when they're playing the Packers than a RAM or Charger. But three points is usually still what it is in college. So if it's a two-point spread, that still means they think that Washington's a better team.

They're just getting those home-filled points. But I think Washington probably runs it. I'm going to bet Washington on that. Okay. Yeah, I'll bet them. All right, what else? Going to the NFL, which current 7C do you think has a better chance to make the playoffs? The Texans or the Vikings?

I know C.J. Strau's like the dude, but he's got a big couple rookie games coming out of him, I feel. He's still a rookie. and they're still the Texans. And those are two things you can't fully shake. It takes a long time. It's like a, it's like, I got sprayed by a skunk when I was like eight or nine. And not direct, but I was right by it when it sprayed.

I think it was scared. And my grandma would like put me in tomato juice to wash the smell off. That was what the move was. And so, but the smell, it went away mostly at first, but it just for like four days. It just slowly went away until it was. was gone. It never just left. That's crazy. That's what being a rookie and a Texan is. It's going to take a long time for that smell to tomato juice off of you.

So until that's all the way gone, I'll just not believe it's all the way gone. So I think that it's the Vikings, I'm a believer. They're like five and no or six and no without Justin Jefferson. That's crazy. Which is hilarious and crazy. So I'm going to go with the Vikings, even though they have a much harder schedule. I think they have the hardest or the 11th hardest strict the schedule, where the Texans have like the 29th hardest, but that's still, Strah's a rookie, and he hasn't looked rookie like,

but rookies usually revert back to rookie at some point. Rookie rookie. You would think, right? Yeah, no, I agree. I think it's, what do you think, Eddie? I mean, I like, I don't know, the thing Dobbs over in Minnesota is crazy, and I think they're on a role, and if they can just keep up what they're doing,

which is crazy to just go into a brand new team and act like you've been there forever and play. the way that they played last week. I mean, to me, I think that's the story right there, right? Josh Dobbs goes, like, he's going to be a legit quarterback. If they make the playoffs, he will be a legit quarterback, no question. But CJ Stroud, man, I mean, he hasn't showed rookie. He did a little early in the season, but, I mean, you know, he...

If he show a rookie or they show Texan. That's what I... Well, you know, because they, Texans suck, generally. And he didn't throw interceptions. Remember that, even though he was a rookie. He didn't throw any interception. Right, he had that record. Yeah.

So he still doesn't have Justin Jefferson or anybody even close to that But he has a guy named Tank but he's hurt now is it tank? Yeah Tank Dell or yeah I think he's hurt and I think Robert Woods comes back What Dalton Schultz is there? So that's kind of his dude lately that's true Damien Pierce I think is back this week too Yeah so he's got these are a bunch of people that that average for any other team they would just be backup Totally but you're going with Minnesota I would rather have CJ Stroud long term obviously with yeah but

I think that the Vikings, oh, but the Vikings are, that's a choking organization too. Do you think the NFC and AFC have something to do about it? Like being in the AFC is harder because they're stacked. And the NFC, a little easier to make it maybe. I feel like it's even now. I feel like it's shifted about even during the season. I think the Eagles and the Cowboys kind of even that out. Yeah, to get the Cowboys and somehow here.

Hey, I think it's legit. All right, give me one more. Last one at 5 and 5 and 5. And currently out of the playoff picture, do you think the bill's Super Bowl window is closing? I don't think the window forever is closing. I think it's this season. That door is almost shut. They have to win.

They can. There's still enough games for them to just win. They have a good quarterback. You think the door's still open a little bit? I think the door is not locked. Wow. But it's closed. Yeah, I think you're at a...

Okay, so you're at a hotel. And the door is closed. However, that latch on the inside and make sure it's housekeeping can't come in. That's not up yet. Okay, so it's not secure. So there's still a way to get in if you have a key. A lot of things have to happen to get a key, though

I have to win everything, don't they? Well, their next three games, the Jets, they'll win. I do feel like they'll win that game. I think if they can go two and one in the next three because they're playing the Eagles and the Chiefs after that. I feel like they can go two and one and then win the other. I feel like they have a shot,

but Josh Allen's there until 28. Diggs. He's the old school prima don't know, wide receiver. Yes. In a place where they don't really like that culture does not, it's not warm to that. So, and Diggs is there until 27. He signed that deal last year.

Yeah, 2022. Yeah. So, or what are we now? 23. 23, almost 23, I don't know. So I don't think it's closed all the way, but I think it's going to be very difficult for them to. But listen, Cincinnati is a team now that's not going to be in the way. Yeah.

When you're talking about all those in the hunt teams that go up on the screen, the teams that made it, but also in the hunt, Buffalo is going to be there. I think I think it went two out of three. They got it. they have a chance to actually do it. All right, there you go. That's the tittle title. Thanks for.

The stupidest name ever is the tittle tattle with kickoff. 25 whistles presented by Draft King Sportsbook and official sports betting partner of the NFL. Download the draft king's app and use the code Bobby Sports to get in on the action. We are O for our last. I don't know we've hit one all year, have we? Yeah, I think week two. Early.

Of this whole show. Like last year there was a point where I was 10 weeks in a row. It's unbelievable. I'm getting average out. Yeah. Some years are better than others, man. It's just... That's a terrible Mickalogue's slogan, right? Some years are better than others. Or some days, some days. Someday? No, I don't know. I just think that I looked over it. We're all going to pick one game.

Yeah. Don't be the weak link. That's the goal. I'm saying it to myself too. Don't be the week link. Kevin, we're doing three games here. What is your game? My game is Michigan. The Harbaugh is going out there against Maryland at Maryland minus 19. Man, that's the game of the week. That's a tough one. I just hate gambling on the game of the week because... Why is it the game of the week? Is it Michigan?

Michigan, Maryland. Oh, that's not the game of the week. My bad, I'm one week behind. That's next week. Ohio. Oh, yeah. I'm not going to touch that game. I'm like, that's crazy. Yeah, so Michigan minus 19?

Yes. I'm going to go to Kansas State. In that point five, which we've learned, is a massive deal. They're minus seven and a half at Kansas. and Kansas is pretty good. However, Kansas just lost our coach. Went to Michigan State.

Is he doing it? I think so. Oh, yeah, you're right. I didn't see that, actually. You're right. So, Kansas State, really good team anyway. Rivalry game.

Kansas doesn't have their coach. If I were Kansas, he's still our coach, we suspended up for stealing signs. Come on, guys, get mad. That's what I would do. But I got Kansas State minus seven and a half at Kansas.

Eddie? I'm going to go, Oklahoma State. money line over Houston. For some reason, I think it was Oklahoma State minus seven over Houston. I thought that was like, I don't know. It's a little weird because Houston's not that good of a team. They did, what, did they beat Texas?

Does they almost beat Texas? How did that go? They play Texas close, yeah. Yeah, it's something like that. So I think that drives the line a little bit, but I mean, I'm not worried about it. Let's just go. But you're betting the money line on a seven point game?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that helps us a little bit. You won't be the weak link. Yeah, I agree. We got to win something here. Right. I mean, we could go crazy and do the minus seven, but I think we should do money line. All right, so there we go.

Kansas State minus seven and a half. Michigan minus 19 and Oklahoma State money line. Please go. Come on. We need this. If you want to take the 25 whistles parlay, you can check out Draft King Sportsbook. New users use the code Bobby Sports when you download the app 21 and up in most eligible states. But age varies by jurisdiction.

Eligibility and deposit restrictions apply gambling problem. Call 1,800 gambler in New York. Call 8778. Hope and Y. A text, Hope and Y, 467, 369. A win is a win. A win is a win. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports. sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. The 2026 NFL draft is here, and the NFL Daily podcast has it covered from all angles. Join me, Greg Rosenthal, and Jordan Roderig after night one on Thursday. Nick Shook joins me night two Friday and then Sunday to recap everything that went down over the three days in Pittsburgh.

We'll tell you who won the draft and which players were my favorite picks. Listen to NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal on the free IHeart Radio app. Open the app, search NFL Daily, and listen now. In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in so much, correct? I doctored the test ones.

It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Sunlight's the greatest disinfected. They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Gillespie and Michael Marantini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young.

This is Love Trap. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Americopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Now let's get to our interview with Fox Sports Radio's Doug Gottlieb. Great show, great podcast.

He played point guard at Oklahoma State. He holds all of Oklahoma State's assist records. He's top 10 in the NCAA still in assists. You can listen to a show daily on Fox Sports Radio from 3 to 5 Eastern. Follow him at Gottlieb show. Here is Doug Gottlieb. Doug, what's up, man? All good, man.

Hey, I was looking at the, the, Wantsworth, Wikipedia for all-time assist leaders, and I had known that you were one of the top 10 NCAA assist leaders of all time. I would just be obsessed with making sure that nobody was coming up on me. Do you look and see who's approaching so you don't get knocked off the top of the list? It's like the guys that are good enough usually go pro. You know, these COVID-year guys, you're worried about guys getting fifth and six years coming up and beating you. Oh, yeah. Last year,

Noel, whatever, from Kansas State. Marquise. Yeah, Marquise Noel? Huh? Marquise Noel. Yeah, he was getting really close to my single season in the Big 12. And had they won in the elite eight, I was cooked.

And he was like really close. I think he finished like three short of me. So I hadn't been in that position before, but I was like, yeah, dude. Like anybody who says they don't give a shit about their records is full of shit. You know, like you want something for posterity. I used to be seventh, and the guy who's sixth is Greg Anthony. I was literally three short of him.

He played a whole bunch more games than I did because they went to, they won a national championship and they went to the national semifinals, right? But like, I'm still bitter because my junior year when I led the country and assist, I was in the doghouse for eight games. So actually, in overall average, that was the fewest minutes per game I played in my career. and so obviously had I not been the doghouse or my coach just like benched me for a game or not played me for a game like you benched me just like one game and you don't play it wouldn't hurt my average but it would hurt my average but I wouldn't hurt my average but my

overall total would have been lower but I went through a stretcherous but like eight or ten minutes anyway so then you're like if he hadn't done that to me I would have been like third or fourth all the time you know so there's a yes I definitely pay attention to it I'm not going to lie to you I saw Gary Payton is below. That's pretty cool. You're above Gary Payton. Yeah, but he did all kinds of other. It doesn't matter.

I just see a list. And Gary Payton is, who cares? Yeah, who cares? So, a big fan, been listening to you forever, obviously. We've established kind of a personal relationship as well. So I really appreciate you coming on here. A couple things I wanted to talk with you about, first of all, as being an assist guy, did you ever feel like teams knew you wouldn't shoot?

Like, they're like, oh, it would just back off. And do you feel like you had to them? have games where you would prove you could still put up 15 to 20? Yeah, but I couldn't. There was like three games. So, I mean, it's really interesting because, like, forever in the Big 12, I'll be known as a guy that could make every pass, but, you know, couldn't throw it in the ocean.

And my last Big 12 tournament game, we played Iowa State. That Iowa State team was probably the second best team in the country that year. They lost to Michigan State in the elite eight, who ultimately won the national championship. and Iowa State, where you, Stacey was the coach, and he tells everybody to this day,

and there's other guys that are head coaches who are assistants on that staff, but I'll tell you that their whole game plan was not just to let me shoot, but also when I drive, they'd fake and then make me finish because I got to this point where, like, all I did was pass.

You know, it was like, it was like the Yips at first, and then it just kind of took over my game, and it was literally playing, without a jump shot. It was really hard. And there were a couple of the games where it went away, where the like anxiety of it went away. And like I had 19 against Southern Miss. I had my last home game against Oklahoma. I had two big threes. We played a Kansas site, a couple big threes. But generally, I just mentally, emotionally couldn't get myself to relax shooting. And everybody in the

league knew it. So it was really, it's actually like you ask people like what I was able to accomplish especially like my senior year is kind of gratifying because literally play without a jump shot and that's hard. It's like living without one of your senses. So all the rest of your senses become heightened but that one sense is really, really hard to play without it.

Do you feel like you lost your shot as you got older and specialized more, meaning in high school? Could you fill it up better? Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't have been recruited and been rated as highly as I was

if I couldn't shoot. I mean, I was never a step Curry. But I patterned my game after Bobby Hurley, and, you know, he got to be a better, better shooter in college. I was a, I score. I was the all-time league score in my high school. I had 44 in a game. I could shoot and score well enough. But I'm ultimately a bit of, I think, a control freak.

And so part of what happened early in my career and then at Notre Dame and then at Oklahoma State was, you know, I wanted to control. who got the shots and kind of be the hero by creating opportunities for my teammates. And I also, I got big and strong and I think I lost some of my touch. And then when I lost some of my touch and I was trying to control things, you know, then your shooting percentages go down and down and down. And then you just kind of get in this mentality of, okay, if I just do what I can do best, and if I don't miss a shot, I'll never come out of the game. I hate it coming out of games.

and it worked against me because I figured if I don't miss, well, he can't take me out. So if I don't shoot, I can't miss. So I just wouldn't shoot. And then ultimately people would dare me to shoot. And then it became really difficult. I don't know if I'm making sense to you. No, you are. Would they ever talk trash and be like, you can't, hey, you can't shoot it, shoot it?

Every game. Really? Every game. Every game. And it's that, you know, you sit there and literally the hardest thing to do, I think, is you're wide open every time you get. It's like Ben Simmons, how they guard. is like you're open you can shoot the ball anytime you want and it's technically an open shot

you know and again this is also remember this is in like 99 2000 so my so like my coach at the time were like take it in a good better shot like it's actually a better shot to shoot a three where you can make if you make you know three out of 10 it's it's equally as good as making you know four out of ten or five out of ten twos. And so I, you know, if I could go back and do it, I would have sat down with my coach and be like, look, man, you got to let me just let me do, let me shoot when I'm open. Don't take me out.

Take me out when I turn down open shots. And if I make a couple, everything else will open up. But I didn't. You know, I was intimidated and I was in my own head. And, you know, it became really, really hard. And I take a personal sort of pride from it. You know, the way I tried to work it in my mind was if I sucked athletically or if I sucked at others, they wouldn't play off me, right? There'd be no fear of me, period.

But the reality is, it's hard for me even go back and watch or show my kid the way I played because it's kind of embarrassing when guys playing five feet off you and you don't shoot. Could you go back and take tape and appeal and be like, no, this was an assist. You guys did not count it. I need to move up the later. Here's two assists from this game because I'll be doing that crap. it's a great question and the answer is one time so we played against unlb and a really a guy has become a really good friend of mine his name is mark dickle mark is australian and mark was their point guard and so we played them my junior year and we stomped them and that was when i came out of the

dog i was in the dog house i was going to leave the team and i had a great game in vegas and as as chance would happen we played them again my senior year also in vaguenks and so we get to done we molly wamp them um and i remember i'd always grab the stat sheet half time and after the game and i grabbed the statute and i had like four assists and uh i was like what the you know this is some bull and our other our assistant coach was my coach's son his name sean sutton who was also point guard and he's like oh there's some you know like so we actually went back and i was and i know in my mind about how many I had. Like I was like, I think I had 13 or 14.

And we went back and like literally by definition of assist, it was like 12. And I was trying to, you know, I was trying to lead the country again. I was trying to get the all-time mark, which is Bobby Hurley's mark, which is probably out of reach. So we sent it back. We sent it to the NCAA. And they get, I think they gave me nine, gave me nine assists. So it was the only time. we ever did that. And really, like, here's how crazy in what a small world Oklahoma State is.

And you know this from your time with your TV show and go into all these small college towns, right? Is the guy who kept stats at Oklahoma State is named Lee Manzer. Lee's son, Brendan played there. Lee was my marketing professor. Matter of fact, my last course that I had to take. I took correspondence. My senior year, I had three hours left, and it took me four years to complete it. But like, he was a hard ass, not just like literally correspondence courses. He could have just gave me a C or whatever. I had to do all the work. But it was the same way with statting. Like I, my stats weren't great at home all the time. They weren't. It wasn't like they pumped up my stats. I had my marketing professor who was

screwing me with my stats. So I, now would you get screwed on the road, but at home like, Manzer was by the book, an assist and an assist, I'm not giving you extras. And so if you go back and watch tape, there'd be passes where I turn and I point to my marketing professor who's keeping the stats for our team. That's a real story. Just to remind him, hey, Lee, don't miss that. That's exactly what I do. Yeah. That's an assist. That's funny. He'd do like, no, that's not assist. Like, that's an assist. Doug Gottlieb show. A basket leads directly to a basket. That's the definition of it. The podcast is really good. It's all ball with Doug Gottlieb, and you can listen to it on iHeart radio wherever you listen to your podcasts or the dug got leap show on fox sports

radio three to five eastern um so a couple things i wanted to talk about i ask you a question uh yeah you know okay come on let me just ask you one question okay i'm ready okay so i i've said this like boise is the best city that you'll never visit yes right to a lot of people yes okay and there's charlestons like that there's a lot of places like that and you've traveled this entire country heck i know you traveled the world so here's here's a legit question All these college towns you've been to. Where's the place you're like, kind of wish I would have gone here? If I could go back and pick a place, this would be the place.

It's funny you bring up Boise because, Eddie, what do I say about Boise? Boise, man, it's wonderful. What do I say? Oh, it's another country. No, Hawaii. Hawaii, that's right. That's not another country. It's America.

I said, if I got to pick. It feels like another country. When I spent time there when I was doing my Nat Geo show, I had no idea how versatile that city is. It doesn't matter what you want to do. There's some cosmopolitan part of it. There's the outdoors part of it. There's the traditional sports part.

Boise was awesome. A little too cold for me, but I often am like, Boise is better than Hawaii. To me, because I've been to Hawaii a bunch and I don't even like the beach. I know you're from California.

I grew up in Arkansas. We didn't have a beach. I don't like the beach. I don't even know what you do. You sit there in the sand. Okay. What do I do now? Yeah, I mean,

Lake, honestly, Lake, in many ways, to be better than Beach. I'm not going to lie to you there. Yeah. You catch you. Because it's warmer. Yeah, there's a lot of things. Plus, like, super fear of dying for me in, like, waves. So I'm the guy who grew up in Orange County, and I suck at surfing. My son laughs at me and says I'm the worst.

But I'm kind of with you. I mean, Hawaii does have incredible hikes, you know, and different topography than we have. Times out are too screwed off. Time zones are too screwed off in Hawaii. Can't work there. Yeah, the time zone is really hard. So, Boise is good. I think Madison, Wisconsin's awesome if it just wasn't so cold.

It's so freaking cold there. I mean, we went, did a show at the Orphium there once, and it was winter, and we had winter in Arkansas. We had seasons. However, we didn't have lakes that froze over, and jeeps would drive on them. We pulled over the car, and Eddie wanted to go walk out on the lake because it was just frozen. I'm from South Texas, man. I've never seen anything like that.

That to me was bizarre. It was awesome. So Madison is a really cool town. I like passion. I like almost rabid passion. Athens, Georgia, and I'm not saying it because Georgia is good. I like the climate and I like the music scene. I think Athens, Georgia, Fayetteville, obviously, is my favorite. But Athens, Georgia is probably number one with Boise. You? And I've been to so many places. Urban ones, the most underrated urban one, I think, is the University of Washington. Because Seattle feels like a different country. You're like, damn, this is really far from the rest of the country. But it's close enough to the city. You have the water right there. It's a cool looking campus.

That's, I think, my most underrated urban one. in terms of like college town or place that I could I could totally dig. Like I love Austin. I don't think I could go to school in Austin. I just feel like, I don't know. There's so much other stuff going on. I love at Oklahoma State how it was just all about school. New Mexico is kind of underrated, to be totally honest with you.

I like Utah State in Logan, Utah. That's actually a super, the cash valley. Again, I know you don't like cold. Actually, very hot, warm in the summer. and kind of smoggy. I think it's the smoggyest place in the country. Love pollution. Warm me up.

Let's go. Global warming, baby. It's really, but if I was going to pick one, but I was like, man, if I could do it all over again, I think it would probably be Tuscaloosa. No way. You're out of your mind. You're out of your mind.

Well, I took a visit to Tuscaloosa when this was before they were really good in football. I had transferred from Notre Dame. and I was sitting out of junior college, and I went there. And they had, I'm Jewish, and they have the Jewish between the Sammies threw me a party, just for me. I had my own female escort to the party. It was so cool. Like just the, I don't know, how they do it in the South is really cool. The only issue I have was schools in the South is that they care about basketball and the big games,

but they kind of don't give a crap most of the year. Whereas when I was at Oklahoma State, like we kind of ran the school and that was very, very cool. Maybe Tuscaloosa for both of us is just associated with an emotion. I just associated with getting the crap kicked out of me every time we go down and play football. Like I have to go stand amongst the statues. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Go ahead. I'm going to switch.

I want to switch. Ole Miss. Yeah, Ole Miss is awesome. Oxford's awesome. I just because like you go, it's like going back in time when you go to their little town square. It's so cool. It's a little writ. a little rich for me, not like cake, like money. And like, I didn't have money for most of my life.

And it was like all rich people and like fraternities and sororities. But yeah, Oxford's cool. It is. It definitely is. I will point out, Bobby. I don't know if you know this. But you are rich now. Now, yes. But I still, I still feel like I'm not for the most part. He's not talking about cake either. No, right. Yeah, no. No, look, I get it. Like, I remember when I went to Notre Dame my freshman year. And I, you know, people can Google. It's not hard to find. Like, I screwed up, but it's stupid stupid stuff. But I love some of the spirit of it, but I did feel like, obviously, I had never been

to a private school. I wasn't Catholic. But more than anything, there was a lot of affluence there. And I was just a kid from Orange, California. And it was, I'm not saying like I walked uphill to school barefoot, butt naked, in the snow. So, you know, it's uphill both ways. But I didn't count from a ton. And I just felt like I remember they had J-Crew catalogs

that got delivered to our entire dorm. And dudes to get the J-Q catalog, and they just go through and this is what I want. And they would tell their mom whatever, and they ordered. And it's like, I didn't even know what J-Crew was. Like literally, I had one pair of jeans and had my mom got me this horrendous L-L-Ban parka, green L-L-L-Ban parka. And that was like my winter coat. And I, anytime it was below 50.

You talked about Madison and weather. What people don't know about being by the lake, especially on the other side of Lake Michigan, is it's not just lake effect snow. You get lake effect overcast weather. So, I mean, I remember not seeing the sun for the entire month of November. Like literally the sun never came out. Late October, November, and in December. And then it got cold and snowy. And it really kind of affected you mentally.

So that's the part of that that side of it. That's why I didn't play football in the Big Ten. Oh, that's it. Because it was just too cold for me. I just didn't feel like for me that was, you know, the ingredients weren't there. So speaking of football, a couple things here, because I listen to you and you have no fear, which I admire in just giving your opinion. And if you're wrong, going, hey, you know, way back then, I was kind of wrong. But so I like that because sometimes I struggle with saying I'm wrong.

I just forget I ever said it. I'm like, nope. Never heard of it. So let's talk for a second about C.J. Stroud. Now, what did you think of C.J. Stroud when he was drafted by the Texans? And then what do you think of him now? And what's the difference in your mind on what he can do, his ceiling? Okay.

So we all carry biases, right, against guys. And the problem is he went to Ohio State and how many Ohio State quarterbacks have we seen that they're throwing the guys who are wide open. You know, so like how much skill does it take when you have, it's like the old back when USC was rolling and Carson Palmer was great. Matt Liner wasn't a good college wasn't a great pro quarterback. Why? Because like in the pros, you've got to throw guys open. You don't have better players than everybody else. So I think part of the CJ Stroud thing was like the quarterback, the two quarterbacks before him had both put up ridiculous numbers and weren't good pros.

And you're watching a guy, he didn't move around a ton. and he was just kind of okay, again, based upon the billing last year. Meanwhile, Bryce Young, I saw play in high school. I live close to modern day. I have friends that are there. And he's always been seen as this like quarterback savant, can read defenses, can move around and throw. And he's tiny. He's by NFL standards, he's an umpillumpa.

You know, he's not part of the lollipop. Lollipop gang. And I thought, okay, well, outside of him being small, and there's been small guys, Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray, Drew Brees. Maybe he can do it because he has all these other things. Where his C.J. Strout is bigger, stronger, but like does he move that well? Is he really that good? Is it just that Ohio State has way better players than everybody else?

Ohio State has this like, it's like Alabama. They have all these great wide receivers. And they're just better than nine of the ten opponents they play. So I carried that against him. And I was like, I don't get it. I don't see him being star. And then you kind of watch. And look, last week is the perfect example.

They had a big lead. He did throw a big pick. And they did nearly give away a 10-point lead on the road. But this is, I think, two weeks in a row that he's led him on a gigantic drive and made big plays. What's his ceiling? I mean, I don't know if he can be a superstar, but you can't do anything in the NFL unless you have a dude back there. A guy you can count on, a guy that can play, can deliver the mail. He doesn't have to be Aaron Rogers.

He doesn't have to be Pat Mahomes. But he can't be one of these guys that stinks. He can't be Zach Wilson. He can't be a guy. And then the real magic to building a team in the NFL is you got to do it during years two, three, and four of their rookie contract because they don't make much money. And then you can build a whole roster around them. Houston has that.

So that's where I do two things, though, Bobby. I want to make sure I point this out. I will say that I'm wrong, but I also don't hate saying when I was right. You know, I'm really good at that second part. Everybody else like, you know, I don't want to be that. guy. No, no, I like being that guy. I really like being that guy that says, no, I like to say I told yourself. That's what it works for me. The situation in Michigan right now, is this going to get worse before it gets better or will we just look back at this and laugh in three years?

I think we'll look back and laugh at three years. It's stupid. It's stupid. You know, I mean, look, was there hubris? Is that why they sent some ex-marine out on the road to go and, yeah, and like, he put everything under his own name? Like, they weren't even trying to hide. hide it. But like this idea of advanced scouting, I mean, I don't know if you know this story, Mike Leach, the late Mike Leach, who of course was at Mississippi State, Washington State, and Texas Tech. There's a story you can Google it and see it online.

He was the offensive coordinator at Oklahoma, Bob Stoops' first year, 1999, 2000, and they beat Texas. And the famous story was they left a scatter report mistakenly on the field at the Cotton Bowl before the game. And then they knew Texas thought things were coming and they did the opposite. This stuff's been happening. I played football growing up and I remember like we used to line up with our backs to the other team in case they were spying us. High school football teams think somebody's spying them.

So everybody assumes somebody's looking and trying to find your signals. You know, basketball teams, they use copy or they go to a tournament and they find your hand signals and your calls. They wouldn't have three different signs and guys, you know, you know, doing the Larry Moe and Curley if they didn't think somebody was sick. I just, I think part of it is people don't really like Harbaugh. Part of it is there is some, a ton of arrogance there with Michigan. And part of it is like we've crept in this era now where everybody has a cell phone. So there's no real secrets. And we knew this was going on. And we knew this was going on and there's counterintelligence going on as well. It looks bad. They're holding a hardball

out. And I'm only interested in what happens against Ohio State if that somehow changes the tenor of the game. I don't think he makes play calls. I don't think he does a ton game day outside of that one decision. Do we go for it? Do we not go for? Do we punt here? Do we go for it? You know, like the last and final word you're missing and the adjustments at halftime for a guy who, you know, played at every level and played well, and then as coached at every level and coached well. So I think those things you are missing. But yeah, we're going to look back and go, really? You know, it's like, you know this.

The SEC was buying kids long before NIL. Like, that's the best advantage you can have. Have better players than the other team. Whereas the Big Ten, like, this is cheating. The SEC has to be laughing at the Big Ten. Speaking of the SEC, my final question here is Texas A&M. I understand who would take the job, somebody that wants to get paid, but I mean, the expectations for that program seem now to have outgrown actually what that program can do.

Your thoughts on that job, who would be good there and why in the world would they take it? Nothing says college football more than Texas A&M, okay? Because if you were to write down what you need to be successful in college football, right? Okay, you need to be in a location. close to proximity where players are. Can you get any better than an hour and a half from Houston? You cannot. You need to have resources.

They got everything. They got money. They're paying a dude $76 million to not coach. Like what? You know, you need resources, finance resources. You need facilities. You need a passionate fan base. You need some history.

They don't have much recent history, but, I mean, they had Mansell. Hell, they had Tyler Murray, like they've had dudes there. You need all these things. and yet they still are the exact same program they were in the decade plus they were in the big 12 right they're like eight and five every year and it's one of those things where um it feels like the more they want it the tighter they grip it and look let's also be honest that places it may not be a cult but it feels a little like a cult right it just does like am i am i am i an alternate universe and and you asked about places that you would go like that's kind of a place where it's not really my jam, but I can understand if it was your jam. Like no one loves their school and loves their thing more than Agnes. But they just have too many meddlers, you know,

they're like the high school, they like the youth football team that has all the players, but all the parents are trying to coach them to stands. That's the only explanation for why they can't get it right is they have so many people meddling that the second they lose, it's, you know, the world is crashing down on us. who wants that job who

I mean look it's a you can you can retire on that money but it feels like in every sport there's a job like this in the NBA it's the New York Knicks how many guys have taken that job like I can fix the New York Knicks if I win

they're going to have a ticker tape parade you know in the valley of champions everybody thinks they can do it and no one's done you know and that's college this is the college football program that there's no reason that they can't have their moment to shine, you know, because they have everything. Everything.

There's zero reason. And they've hired, like, that's a guy that's won a national championship and won a national championship when he was at LSU as well on saving staff. Like, he's not an idiot. Like his ego might be out of control, but he's not an idiot. Dennis Franchione, he won everywhere when he got there. Couldn't win there. And they had dudes when someone was there.

They could never figure it out. I just think it's one of those jobs where it looks really, really good because it checks all these boxes. But when you kind of get down to it, you're like, kind of a cult. Everybody's got an opinion. The second things go bad, people bail on you. I don't know. I get why. And here's one other thing.

NIL has changed one thing in college sports. It used to be about location, location, location. You can't win a national championship at Oregon. because there's no in-state players. Well, now it doesn't matter because players can fly their family in, fly their girls in whatever. And the Big Ten is a national conference. Every game's on TV. And as long as you play, you know, they'll probably find a way to play a game a year in the state of Texas.

I think you'll be okay. So it's look around the sport. Location matters less than it ever has before. And so a lot of these other coaches are like, I don't know. Would I like to get paid? Sure. But do I want to put up with all that crap where I have to worry? Because remember, you're not just dealing with boosters. Now with NIL

you have to deal with agents, parents, players, transfer portal stuff is the second you sit a kid, he wants to leave. Administrators. And it's even political in the state of Texas. You got governors that want to meddle with what you're doing in football. So it's a complicated

gig. That's why it makes a lot. And somebody's going to take it. But I don't know if anybody's found that kind of cure for football cancer because that's exactly what A&M is. The Doug Gottlieb show on Fox Sports Radio Monday through Friday, 35 Eastern, and all ball with Doug Gottlieb. Great podcast on IHot Radio, wherever you get your podcasts. Doug, massive fan. Thank you for the time.

I listen basically every day. I want in studio. I want to be one of the minions in studio. If you come, you don't live here, but you can come whenever you want. So whenever you're here, just come in. All right. That's all. I'm a deal.

I'm a fan as well. I wouldn't have reached out if it wasn't. if I didn't love you. So thanks, Bobby. Well, Doug, appreciate the time, buddy. See you later. Thanks to Doug Gottlie. It's awesome. Who are the pretenders? Who are the contenders? We're more than halfway through the NFL season. Draf King Sportsbook is still pumping out unbeatable offers every single game.

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became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life,

mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, Follow at Clifford and a TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The 2026 NFL draft is here and the NFL Daily podcast has it covered from all angles. Join me, Greg Rosenthal and Jordan Roderig after night one on Thursday. Nick Shook joins me night two Friday and then Sunday to recap everything that went down over the three days in Pittsburgh. We'll tell you who won the draft and which players were my favorite picks.

Listen to NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal on the free. I Heart Radio app. Open the app. Search NFL Daily and listen now. In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in someone's, correct? I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case.

I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Sunlight's the greatest disinfected. They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Alespian and Michael Marantini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap.

Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Americopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're going to go now and talk with Joe Fortinbaugh. ESPN's Joe Fortinbaugh, who is a betting analyst for ESPN Bet Live that was known as Daily Wager.

He's also a co-host on ESPN Radio's daily radio show. It's Carlin versus Joe. You can follow Joe on Twitter at Joe Fortinball. Joe Fortinball. Hey Joe, how's it going? Bobby, I'm well today. How are you? Hey, good.

I've been following you for a while, but what's, to me, to move to Vegas and live the lifestyle in Vegas and tried to learn from others that are sports betters, people in the know, is there actually an in the know in Vegas? Like, what is the in the know?

Sports betting-wise? Yeah, like, no, like sports betting. Like who, how, when they're set in these lines And I'm sure when you're living there and you're in the mix, who's set in the lines and who and how do they know? So you've got, well, it depends on what type of sports book you're talking about, right? Like you go to a sharp book with smart guys, the Westgate's one of them, Circa's one of them. Those are two examples. They've got teams of guys there that talk these lines out.

They originate the lines. They'll say this is what we make it. They'll post it and they'll go from there. Other places will just copy what they do. And they'll let that number get beat up a little bit. by professional betters and all that. And when it rounds in the form, then they'll post it so that they won't have as much liability. But the guys who do it are very, very bright.

They sit in a room, they have their algorithms, their models, their opinions, and they talk it out. And they post. Sometimes they get hit. But for the most part, like with the guys that work at the Westgate, those guys are very, very bright. I always feel like they know somebody. They call like at the backup center. And they're like, yo, how's Joe's ankle? Like, is that part of the process, too, like actually knowing stuff?

I mean, they, okay, here's an example, right? The Deshawn Watson news breaks. Now, that point spread is sitting everywhere at about four and a half. The Steelers are four and a half point underdog. Browns are four and a half point favorite. Totals around 37 and a half. The second that happens, there's two ways you can go. Some places pull the line off the board so nobody can bet it. Some places adjust their numbers. And we saw it move all the way through three down to about two or two and a half. Total comes down from about 37 and a half to 34. That move through three is a very key number. Three is the most important number in all of football betting because more games end on a differential of three than any other number. Like 24, 21, 27, 24. So you want to make sure you're on the right side of three when a game is dancing around that key number. So is it important? Because I just picture it like TMZ or Harvey Levin's got people everywhere. He has, you know, he's like given a valet. a few bucks here to always watch. He's got a nurse somewhere. So I picture like they're inside people, not doing anything nefarious, but are just in the know that you can call and be like,

you're close to the situation because they're not making the bets, but they're just trying to set it up to where it basically, it's even on both sides. So theoretically, they would just get the big, the betting money, right? Yeah, the juice. If you, look, ideally for a lot of these places, if you could hang a number at seven and a half and take a million dollars on the favorite, and a million dollars on the dog, you take your 10%, which is 100K, and you walk away risk-free. That's a great spot. Some books like to take a position. They might offer a different price than everyone else, and they'll say, look, if you like this side, come bet it here. We'll give you the best price because we believe it's going to go the other way. But it's the professionals

that are the ones that have ties to, you know, perhaps teams, trainers, doctors, guys of that nature are very valuable in terms of whether or not a guy's going to play or if he is going to play how healthy he's actually going to be. I knew a guy in college ended up being a weatherman, I guess a meteorologist. And people will get so mad at him when he wouldn't be right about the weather. And he's like, listen, it's not an exact. I can't tell you exactly what's going to happen, but I can give you based on all the indicators, all the knowledge, all the, so I would imagine, here you are. And now it's ESPN Bet Live. You guys have changed, like five or six days ago. You guys changed it, right? Like rebranded it?

Yeah, we launched the book. Yeah, on Tuesday. So ESPN Bet, now you can go to the app and you can make bets. The TV show rebranded last Friday. It went from Daily Wager to ESPN Bet Live. So that's all rolling out this month. Yeah, I love Daily Wager, but now it's ESPN Bet Live. So to make sure our audience knows that's that.

But are people ever mad at you if you're like, I feel pretty good about this game? And then maybe it doesn't happen like you think. Or your buddy's like, Joe, you're the freaking specialist. Oh, are you kidding me? First of all, if you get it right, generally everyone goes, Well, yeah, of course you got it right. I knew that too. If you get it wrong, that's where it's all on you. Last night's a perfect example. Maction, college football, really liked Western Michigan plus the four and a half. They lost 24-0. Terrible result. And you wake up and the mentions let you know it.

The thing is, what are you going to do? Are you going to dwell in that? Are you going to let that stuff bother you? No, you got to sit there and realize, look, what went wrong with this game? Was it my process that was flawed? Or did I have a good process? Did I get a good number? And I did. just ended up getting a bad result. You work through it. You constantly strive to get better with it. You got to understand you're not going to go 100%. That's the one thing a lot of people, they might see you're making six picks. They jump on one of them. It loses. They get mad. But if you went four and two, what are you supposed to do there, right? Like long term, you're just trying to focus on getting the best numbers and putting yourself in the best

possible position to win. So here's what I'll do. If I'm on a losing streak, and that happens from time to time, I'll be honest with you. I will bet a head. heavy, just to break the streak, I will bet a heavy favorite money line. And I really won't make much money, but I'll be able to flip that momentum in my mind, right? It's, I believe this is a momentum-based sport betting. Yes. And so the problem is I did this this last week where I bet Buffalo, I bet pretty heavy on Buffalo just to win, just to win, because they were the heavy favorite. They freaking lost. When that, when that garbage happens there, it makes me not want to bet for a whole other like six hours. Had you thought? And so let me,

So when you're looking for the old slump buster, it's only going to be a favorite, right? You're just going to play the money line favorite. I'm just trying to get a W. I've had so many Ls. I just need a W. And that's what I was doing with Buffalo this past week. And I was like, you know what? Because I was like, I'll put a 100 on it.

And then I'm like, you screw it. The Buffalo's going to win this. I might as well put way more up so I can at least make a little bit. Oh, my God. What an ugly, stupid game. They end up firing the offensive coordinator, Dorsey, afterwards. But that to me was a sure bet. There's no such thing as a sure bet.

You have any sure bets that you were so sure about, that didn't work out for you? Yeah, I mean, most recently, it's probably, it might not be the, it's probably not the worst one, but it's the most recent one was Tyson Fury and Francis Ngano, right? Yeah. Like, Tyson Fury is supposed to be the biggest, baddest boxer on the planet. Francis Ngano is not a boxer. My mindset is saying, well, I've got a great boxer against a guy who doesn't box.

I think the great boxer should win that fight. So I go out there and I'm not going to lay, you know, minus 1,800 because it's boxing. One shot goes the wrong way. and I'm going to be in a tough spot like we're just talking about. But I did go heavy on Fury to win that fight by a stoppage, whether it's K-O, T-K-O or D-Q, that's a prop you can play. So I end up betting that. He gets knocked on his ass early in that fight,

and then you can tell very quickly he didn't take it seriously and he wasn't in great shape, and I just watched that money go bye-bye. So I thought that knockout was as close to a shirt thing as you're going to find, and it was anything but. And that was a decision, right? He won a very tight decision. contested decision. Yeah, it looked like to me, lost the fight, but I get it.

Listen, boxing protects their jewels for sure. Eddie? Yeah. So, Joe, so you hear about these sharks that live in Vegas. Is it possible to have a long career as a gambling shark? Or is it just short-lived? Yeah, no, there's, I moved there in 2011. I was living in Allentown, Pennsylvania, which is where I'm from.

And I was writing for a football website, and I wanted to write about sports betting. had been doing it. I always love betting. I didn't know anything about it, anything at all. So I decided, you know what, I'm packing up. I had no life, no girlfriend, nothing. I'm living at home. I had virtually no money. I had a $2,000 credit card that was maxed out. I said, I'm going to move to Vegas. I'm going to get to know all the bookmakers in town. I'm going to get to know all the professional betters in town. I'm going to learn how this works. And one day, if it gets legalized, maybe I'll have a shot at working for a bigger network. A lot of things happen in between, but it eventually does lead to that. But the point is when I was out there,

I was meeting as many of these guys as I possibly could. Some of them you can obviously find on Twitter, social media. They're also out there promoting their stuff. They're making money that way. Some of them love to operate in the shadows. But the thing is, they do this for a living. I was in a meeting once. I don't think they do it anymore, but it was called the Tuesday meeting.

During football season, every Tuesday at a specific restaurant, 15 guys in the industry would get together, and they'd go around the table for three hours talking about every college football game and every pro football game. And they'd be sharing notes. And I remember a guy in that meeting when it was done, going to the airport, getting on a plane,

flying an hour and a half north to Reno, specifically to bet one game because the point spread at a sports book in Reno was half a point better than any sports book in Vegas. It was worth it to him to get on a plane, fly to Reno, and bet up there for that half point. That's the type of mindset and discipline you have to have if you're going to win long term.

That's crazy. Before social media and the ability to sell or have people subscribe to you, I think it would be really hard to make money because you're only actually making money by, well, betting or beating people up. With the betting, there's a couple things that come into it. There are guys that are really good at understanding that the point spreads are off. Whether it's golf is becoming very popular, whether it's football point spreads, hockey, money lines, whatever it may be, there are guys that are really good with their models in terms of finding the numbers that are off. The thing is, they also need outs and they need to be able to get down

large amounts of money. And that's a game within a game. You know, a lot of these guys, once you get good at this, sportsbooks will either ban you or limit you. Not all of them, but a lot of sports books will say, you know what, you're too good for us. We don't want you playing here. It's like guys that know how to count cards as soon as a casino understands you're going to beat them at Blackjack, they're going to ask you to leave. They're not going to let you play. So you need to be able to get that action down. Billy Walters, who just released a book, one of the most famous sports bettors of all time, there was a whole network of beards. Individuals who would never be looked at or second guest placing a $250,000 wager because

they might be a celebrity, they might be a famous movie star, something of that nature. So the sports books would allow it. Billy would partner with these individuals. You know, there's a book, Michael Koenik wrote the book, The Smart Money. It's basically about that. And there are rumors as to who some of the individuals were, but Hollywood stars that would come in that befriended Billy, and they would place bets on his behalf because he wasn't allowed to. He was too good, but he needed to get, you know, $50,000, $100,000 down.

So he'd use people like that. That's crazy. Final two questions for Joe, which, by the way, ESPN Bet Live. That's what it's called now. If you guys used to watch Daily Wager, which I did, it's now ESPN Bet Live. Also, Carlin and Joe on ESPN Radio Midday. Okay, final two questions. If someone like Taylor Swift, or specifically Taylor, is that a game?

And I know there probably aren't a lot of bettors who are Taylor fans. I don't think that Venn diagram is a massive circle coverage. Could that ever change a line, though? Because everybody's like, let's go bet for Taylor where it would actually move it at half point or a point? Point spreads, highly unlikely. Props, yes. And we've seen this with Travis Kelsey props. His numbers, say, is receiving yardage total.

I mean, don't quote me on this, but it might be in the neighborhood of 74 and a half, something like that for a specific game. Once you start hearing that Taylor Swift might be there, you'll see that number generally go up, whether it's Travis Kelsey to score a touchdown, over receptions, over receiving arts, all the positive stuff. You won't see it going the negative. You won't see it going the other way. You'll see it going up for a couple of reasons. Number one, I think sports books know they're going to take more Kelsey money, so they might try to get ahead of it, or they do end up taking a lot of money and they have to adjust as a result. But she's not, I haven't seen her affect the point spread, but I have seen her affect props. Hilarious. It's just funny. I like that. And I would think based on, he really wants it.

So let's go, let's bet the yards. Final question for you, Joe. I mean, imagine, imagine if the Chiefs get to the Super Bowl and they're still dating and she's there. Like, we already get thousands of prop bets. The amount of Taylor Swift prop bets will have specifically pertaining to her. I can't even imagine. It'll be outrageous. Yeah, that'll be annoying and awesome at the same time.

Final question. I know you're a big 10 guy, Penn State guy, but I do want to talk about Michigan briefly in that, in just the betting space. So Harbaugh is not able to be on the sidelines, obviously, and be at these games. He can be there for practice. First of all, does that affect the line? Secondly, do they ever be like, well, they're probably really mad, so let's make the line even bigger, like emotional point spread? That'll affect the public betters, I think more than it'll affect the sports books. The sports books have their number, and then they adjust. You know, the Penn State games. game came out somewhere around five. They were a five point favorite at Penn State. It went down to four and a half four, but that was more sharp money coming in because they liked Penn State to begin with. It wasn't so much the Harbaugh news because there were two factors working at play

there that favored Michigan. Number one, Harball was there all week to help install the game plan. So it's not as if he wasn't around the team. And number two, he had a self-imposed suspension the first three games of the season. So they've already been through this. I mean, if there was ever a team that was uniquely qualified to handle playing a game without their coach. It was them because they had done that three times at the beginning of the season. So as it moves forward, I think now that they've proven it against Penn State, you won't see it affect them in Maryland. The Ohio State game's interesting. We have a look ahead line right now, Michigan minus five and a half against Ohio State. Mark that down and then let's see what happens a week from now as the betters get involved

in that. But they're never like, they're extra mad. Let's make it a little. They're so upset. That affected betters. Like I as a Penn State grad knew Penn State was not going to win that game. They just don't win big games. They don't beat Ohio State, don't beat Michigan. That's just the jaded nitty lion and me, and that's my angle on that game.

But when you saw that plane land and all the kids on that team started tweeting the word bet, and then Tom Brady bet it, you know that it's galvanized them. So I don't think the books have taken that into account, but I think a lot of betters like betting Michigan because of that. You guys follow Joe at Joe Fortinball on Twitter. Hey, love what you do.

You're a great personality. I don't know what you're off camera, but you're the best on. So congratulations on everything at ESPNBet live and ESPNBet. And thank you for the time, Joe. Yeah, I appreciate you guys having me. Thanks so much. All right, Joe, see you, buddy. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in. sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space For honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. The 26 NFL Draft is here, and the NFL Daily podcast has it covered from all angles. Join me, Greg Rosenthal. Jordan Roderig after night one on Thursday. Nick Shook joins me night two Friday and then Sunday to recap everything that went down over the three days in Pittsburgh. We'll tell you who won the draft and which players were my favorite picks.

Listen to NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal on the free IHeart Radio app. Open the app, search NFL Daily and listen now. In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed, revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in soons, correct? I doctored the test ones.

It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Sunlight's the greatest disinfected. They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Lepin and Michael Marincini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap.

Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Americopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I thank you Joe Fortinball. Appreciate that. Let's talk about some odds and some stuff real quick, guys.

MVP odds, ready? Yep. Do you know them, Eddie? No. Who do you think is the favorite? MVP in the NFL? The favorite would be probably Jalen Hertz.

You're right. Okay. Nice. I did not. I wouldn't have gone Jalen Hurts. I don't want my homes again. Just prove me, prove otherwise first. Sure.

It hurts, boom. Mahomes, second, Lamar, third, two of four, borough five. That's going to drop significantly now. You put Dak on that spot. Shut up that, out of that deck. No, I just move him up to that spot because I mean, Joe Burroughs not even playing. Plus, 800. Which team wins a suit?

So where's Dak? He didn't make the top six. Which team wins the Super Bowl? Odds. Eddie, who is the favorite? The favorite to win the Super Bowl is, let's go. Eagles are not. The 49ers and the Chiefs are both plus 500.

Oh, wow. The Eagles are plus 550, so they're second. The dolphins and ravens come in third. The lions and cowboys at plus 1,000. I like that. That would be two, three. So sixth. It's good money.

Cincinnati plus 1,500. That's going to drop significantly. And the Jaguars plus 2,000. So there you go. Patriots aren't on there. We didn't have enough room for all the zeros. It's a million dollars to one. Dang, that's crazy.

I mean, I haven't seen the Browns. What happened since, DeShan, you know, his shoulder, he's out for the year. Like, what it? Terrible, terrible, terrible decision they made. And you see they're starting DTR, not PJ Walker. Yeah. T.R. Down to. What do you think that means, Eddie?

Down to run. DTF. Is that where that's coming from? Who do you think, who do you think DTR is? Give them the T, Kevin. Thompson. Thompson. As a quarterback?

Give them the D, Kevin. Dorian. Oh, I don't. know who is that give them the R Kevin Robinson I don't know the no idea

all the other Dorian Thompson Robinson I knew that is we'd have been there all day last night was watching the Bengals and Ravens

and I didn't bet anything on the game I was watching shows my wife I don't need to bet just for the sake of betting but so I stopped watching the games

and then I saw that it was going into halftime I did not see Burrough leave the game I changed it before he changed

like I changed a channel. I switched off of Amazon and we started watching some show called Spy Best Friend or something. I don't know. And I look over and the Bengals are plus 14 and a half at halftime. And they're only down 14 points. I'm like, how in the world? So I'm like, oh, I caught it at the right time. Burroughs aren't going to lose by this many points.

You're like, I'm getting a deal. Let's go. So I throw $1,000 on Cincinnati with the points. And I'm like, let's go. And then I'm like, well, if I feel like, like they're going to score these points. They're easily going to cover the 50 and a half. No, boy.

So I'm like, let's go. I'm all in. I'm putting another thousand bucks on the over. We finished the show. I turned it on in Angel Burrow. And I'm like, oh my God. What did I do? And so I text Eddie and I'm like, I'm done.

You said I'm an idiot. I didn't even look. I blindly jumped on it because I thought Burrow was the quarterback. And I would have lost both bets. had they not had a miraculous junk touchdown at the very end that allowed me to cover and then allowed me to hit the over so i won both thousand dollar bets it's crazy all on the last drive this a junk drive yeah a meaningless like a like a back door junk drive garbage two thousand dollars that's cool that's crazy dude it's pretty good i'm looking at

it never works out for me that way and you never bet for the sake of betting no Random, like I'm not watching. I just saw, I thought, well, these odds are great. Let me jump on him real quick because Burrow, there's no way Burrough is going to loot. Then I go, oh, that's why. Because he's not even in the game. I have a couple other things. I have one team in my eliminator that's left.

There were 10,000 entries. It's like a million dollar prize. There are only 842 left right now. Wow. Started with 10,000. Over 10,000. Now there are 842 left. So,

I have five favorites this week that I can pick from that I haven't used. There are a bunch of underdogs as well. But of the favorites, I can have Washington, who's playing the Giants. I haven't used them yet. Detroit, I'm on the list here. Detroit who's playing Chicago, nine and a half point favorites. Houston, which we talked about earlier. No.

The Chargers, which, God dang, I don't think they, I never have anything. Or Denver. which they're better, but they're playing Minnesota, right? So those are the five favorites. There are all the other games, all the other teams, because also on my list that I can pick any time if I stay alive. The Rams, Minnesota, Philadelphia, Green Bay, Cincinnati, which I didn't even pick them.

Now they're dead. Yeah. Arizona, Pittsburgh, Tennessee, the Jets, Chicago, Carolina, Tampa Bay, Vegas. You saved Philly, huh? I still have Philly left, yeah. So I'm not going to pick them this week, though, because Philly is, they're a dog. The Chiefs. And they're playing the Chiefs.

And I just... Yeah. So who would you take? Lions. Really? Yeah. Against the Bears? But Justin Fields is back.

Yeah. But still, they just got a win, right? Not cover. Just win. Just win, yeah. Just win, baby. Eddie? Commanders.

I think that's who I'm taking. Commanders, because... Against the Giants. They're against the Giants. And commanders, I mean, you don't know how they're going to... I don't know. And they're all season. They're just like, I don't know.

But it's a giant. I know. That's what I do know. This week, I can say, I know. Got it. Got it. All right. Let's walk through them real quick.

Weekend preview NCAA. Michigan at Maryland. We feel like Michigan's going to run with that one. Yeah. We won't do spread. Chattanooga at Alabama. That's an easy game for Alabama. I don't know.

Nuga might pull that one off. The Louisville Miami game is interesting. Miami is a one-point favorite. Louisville's a top ten team. Super interesting. I haven't seen them after that Notre Dame game, so I don't know. They're a top ten team. Yeah.

And they're a point underdog. Yeah. A team with full losses. Yeah. And but we've talked about this. Like when the odds are like that? Like what do they know? Something's up.

Florida State playing North Alabama. There'll be nothing there. Georgia and Tennessee is an interesting game. That might be one of the games of the week here. Although I think that Georgia will probably hand elite put it to them. But Tennessee got embarrassed last week. Yeah. So that would be a reason I think they could come out.

They're going to get mad? Maybe. You see Drinkwitz after the game shaking hands. Yeah. We're staying on business. Yeah. I liked it. I wouldn't have

as my team, but I liked it. That's fun. Yeah. Ohio State's going to whip Minnesota. Oregon's going to whip Arizona State. That's not a game. The Washington,

Oregon State game is probably the other contender for the game of the week, which I think, and right now it looks like it's 2.5. I think Washington runs with it. I'm taking Washington, even though they're supposedly a dog. Texas, Iowa State.

Texas should win that. Missouri and Florida, that's one of those games that I could definitely see Florida winning, even though they're not that good. Yeah. I'm surprised Missouri's 11-point favorite. Now it's like,

went on that train. Yeah. And then Kansas State and Kansas is a good game. They're both top 25 teams. They're in Kansas. I feel like Kansas State. Hopefully, wins that.

Let's go, baby. Ema. And covers. Ema. Thank you. NFL preview. You guys want to pick the games like we did last time real quick? Yeah.

Yeah, we talked about the losing. Yeah. No, we did. He paid up. He paid up. Last person, who ever finished the last guy, got to pay an extra $10. Good to go?

Stealers and Browns. I'll go first. God, the Steelers suck. And they keep winning. I'm gonna even the Browns are the favorite that's crazy I'm still gonna go with the Steelers Steelers terrible tell Steelers yep Steelers okay so no nothing lost there nah all right bears and lions read hmm I'm gonna go lions lions lion lion 100% lions we just pick the same team so nobody loses I like it I'll go with the bears oh even though they're big dog getting cute

I hear you Chargers and Packers, Eddie? Gosh, I don't know why I keep believing in Jordan Love, but give me the Chargers. I'm done with that. Oh, you're done with it. Okay. Packers for me. Chargers. Packers.

Raiders and Dolphins. Devons. Dolphins. Reed? Delphins. Eddie? Dolphins. Giants and commanders. I want commanders. Commanders. Everybody on that one?

Okay. Cowboys and Panthers? Anybody, not a cowboy? Okay. We're all saying on that one. I mean, we're all fans now, so. Titans and Jaguars? Jags for me. All jags?

Yep. Okay, we'll see. There's only a few games you've got to keep track of here. Yeah, I know. Bucks and 49ers. Reed. I'm going to go 49ers. Niners.

Yes. Jets. What are you doing? Niners. Oh, man, you're a bigger guy, though. Call them out. Jets and Bills? Anybody going Jets?

No. Oh, hey, I'll go Jets. Okay, I'm going to build. It'll be cute. I'll go, I'll go Jets. Okay. Let's go, let's go, baby. Seahawks and Rams, Seahawks is a one-point favorite.

Seahawks and Rams, I'm going to Seahawks. Stafford's back, though. Yeah, I know. Where they're playing? L.A. Rams. I know. I'm Seahawks, Rams, Eddie.

Let's go Seahawks. Yeah, give me Seahawks. And then finally, Vikings and Broncos. Josh Dobbs, baby. Yeah, Vikings. Vikings. Vikings. Vikings.

Vikings. Yep. I'll go Vikings too. There's only a few games to keep up with there. Nope. Okay, cool. And our final segment, we call this by the numbers. Number one, the jersey number of Tua, who, by the way, debuted a new hairstyle this week.

Have you seen it? He's rocking the braids. Oh, cool. People say it looks like Drake. I thought to myself, what if I come back after Thanksgiving and my hair is in braids? What would you guys think? Please do that. I would love that.

There you go. Number two, touchdown scored by Gus Edwards last night as the Ravens beat the Bengals. they the AFC favorite in your mind. I still go Kansas City is. You got to be the man, you got to beat the man. But I do think they can win it. But I don't think they're the favorite, but they're running three running backs now.

Baltimore is. Yeah. Which is pretty, Gus Edwards is basically the goal line back. But are they the favorite? Anybody think that Baltimore's the favorite? No, no. Okay. Are they close?

Yeah. Yeah. They're right there. Number three, games that Jim Harbaugh will officially be suspended from the sideline at Michigan because he's accepted as punishment. he'll miss Maryland and Ohio State but I also feel like he was involved in both doing it and the punishment

like he got to kind of pick his punishment it's like go pick your switch and you go pick it and you get what by it I feel like he got to pick a switch in that the number four the current Saints seed if the playoffs started today they'd be a four seat in the playoffs wow at 5 and 5 shocking what's the Saints

ceiling first round loss yeah oh they're out so their ceiling is getting there getting there yeah I think their ceiling could be winning one game. Really? The good thing is they will get it at home because they're going to win the division.

I agree. If they win the division, so. I say they can win one game. What's the ceiling, Eddie? Yeah, I'm with you guys. I think they get in, but they lose the first game.

The number five, the max number of games Arkansas can win if they win out, which sucks. FIU this week and Mazoo, after that, the question is, well, they have a new coach. I'm thinking no now that they're not

going to fire him this year. Really? My intel says he'll get another, one more year. Okay. And I'm good with that. It's not like they're signing up to a new five-year deal. Yeah. I'm good with one.

I'm fine with it. Either way, I don't want to see him fired, honestly. I think we need a little stability, even if it has not been fortunate for us the last couple years. Is KJ a senior? He could play another year if he wanted to. Okay. Because of COVID.

I don't know if he's going to. But I'm going to say now I don't think they're going to hire a new coach from what I'm hearing. But I heard differently earlier in the week. So the number six, six months from now, the PGA championship at Valhalla. We played there. We did. And they talked about that the whole time we were there.

The number seven, Texas ranking in the latest college football poll. Will this be their best chance to make the playoff since they're going to head the SEC next year? I say yes. Yes. I don't know. I think it's a lot harder next year for them. Sure. Big 12 is where you've got to be right now.

It's perfect. Isn't it hard? Our team could win that. The bi-bone show. 25-month-old team. Suit up. Could win the Big 12. Number eight, the number of losses the Patriots have heading into their by week.

on a scale of 1 to 8, 8 being the hottest, how hot is Bill Belichick's seat right now? Kevin, you're the Patriots fan go. I'm going to go with a 6. It's hot, but it's still Bill Belichick. Everybody's acting like he's already going to Washington next year. Yeah. I like it. I like 6.

But you're the expert there. We'll go with that. Over under. The number is 9. For the amount of times Taylor will be shown during the Eagles at Chiefs. Ooh, over. Over. Over 9.

I'm going to go under. Under 9? Yeah. I think should be mentioned a bunch, but I don't think should be shown. I think she's shown probably like one and a half times a quarter. What did I read? I read that she, that, oh, Kelsey's meeting her family now? Parents.

Yeah, is that it? How do we know that? The parents are meeting the parents. Oh, both parents are meeting each other. Hey, that's a big step. And then number 10, the jersey number of the best players in soccer. Who's the best wide receiver to wear number 10 in the last 10 years? Tyreek Cooper Cup or D'Hopkins?

Tyreek Hill. I want to say Tyreek, but D'Andre, man. I'm going to go Cooper Cup. I like it. Just from production. Sure. They won a Super Bowl with his production. So I'm going to go with that.

All right, there you go. Do we need to do our promise? Yes. Promises promise. Did I send mine in already? No? Okay, cool. All right, let's do our promises,

and then we'll get the heck out of here. Reed says to pay for one. You have a broken promise you to pay for it. Okay. All right, let's get it. How about Eddie go first? Oh, man. You know me.

The Cowboys, mine is 10 and a half at Carolina. I promise you guys. We're on a roll. Just keep rolling with the Cowboys. Reid, promise me something? Yep, that's the same one I'm going with. You just jump on with somebody. No, I promise.

It's been me for like a few weeks. Okay, so that's Reed. Okay, go ahead, Kevin. This one scares me. We've talked about it, but I'm going to go with the Steelers plus one against the Browns. That defense's going to tear up DTR. And I'm going to go with because...

Oh. Got it. Eddie DTF. And I'm going to go only because my text text, buddy. And the game is today, tonight, but it's not going to be our parlay, so we can, I'm just going to pick it for fun.

UTSA minus 16 versus South Florida. My boy trailer. Okay. Let's go. Hey, did you come into this episode already picking that or is it all, I changed. I changed. I changed.

Kansas State was going to be my deal because I've, but I got to, you know, he texted back so quick. I was like, how can I not? I like it. Love it. All right. All right. Thank you guys.

We'll see you. Have a great weekend. You too, man. Please follow us at 25 whistles. and we'll see you soon. Bye, Eddie, blow the whistle. Oh, yeah, I got you. Hold on here.

Here you go. Bye, everybody. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I bowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this.

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Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

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