The Bobby Bones Show - AMY: Criticism (Part 1 of How Relationships Begin to End: The Four Horseman)

Episode Date: September 21, 2025

This is the start of a 4 part series of Amy and Kat unpacking Dr. John Gottman’s famous ‘Four Horsemen of the apocalypse’ for relationships which has helped him be able to predict the failure or success of a relationship with a 90% accuracy rate. Part 1 is Criticism, the one that often shows up first and sets the tone for conflict. Amy has her own issues with getting defensive and even gets her boyfriend on the phone to confirm. Kat explains why criticism is different from a simple complaint, how it sneaks in through exaggeration, “should” statements, jokes, and tone, and why it can actually be a clumsy bid for connection. You’ll learn Gottman’s antidote, the Gentle Start-Up, with clear “I feel / I need” examples to help you express concerns without blame. Whether you’re married, dating, or navigating family and friendships, this episode will help you spot criticism early and swap it for communication that keeps relationships strong. Feeling of the Day: Angry (and Kat has every right to be!)  Listen next week for: Defensiveness (Part 2 of How Relationships Begin to End: The Four Horseman)   Watch us on Youtube HERE! Call and leave a voicemail: 877-207-2077 Email: [e-mail] HOSTS: Amy Brown // RadioAmy.com // @RadioAmy Kat Van Buren // threecordstherapy.com // @KatVanburenSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance.

And then there's your body having its own program. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On a recent episode of the podcast Money and Wealth with John Ho'Brien, I sit down with Tiffany the budgetista Aliche to talk about what it really takes to take control of your money. What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people when they're no longer here? We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth, starting with the mindset shifts. Too many of us were never, ever taught. If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for you to hear more. Listen to Money and Wealth with John Hope Bryant from the Black Effect Network on the I'd Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Hi, I'm Cheryl Stray, author of Wild and Tiny Beautiful Things. excited to share that I have a new podcast called Mind Over Mountain. In each episode, I interview athletes, adventurers, and adrenaline seekers to discuss the inner landscapes that informed and inspired their extraordinary feats. So we too can better understand how to face our own seemingly insurmountable challenges. Listen to Mind Over Mountain every Thursday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Cat got you covered like an arm, bro. Beware telling us to the chill stuff and the in between.

Sometimes the best thing you can do is just stops and feel things. This is Feeling Things with Amy and Kat. Happy Thursday Feeling Things. I'm Amy. And I'm Kat. And today's the day. We're finally here. We're starting our four-part series on the Four Horsemen.

Mm-hmm. From John Gottman. And what's crazy to me is when he was doing this, research, you were telling me he could tell with 90% accuracy if a couple was going to succeed or fail based on their communication styles. And we're going to dive into the first horseman, which is criticism, which is a communication style. And we'll, it's like, we'll call it a little deep dive into, this is a four-part series. Our first deep dive was dedicated to Mel Robbins let them. So this is not so much a person. It's a thing. Yeah.

So our deep dives are not always going to be people. Yeah. And this is hopefully helpful to people that they can either recognize this in somebody else and say, oh, I don't like that or they can recognize this in themselves and say, oh, I don't like that about me. I want to work to change that. When I was reading over some of the, I keep picturing like a critical person riding a horse, maybe because it's horseman.

But I was like, oh, I've dabbled on that horse before. I know for sure I have behaved this way. in my 17-year marriage. I think as a parent, I've even used the word, you always do this, which I know that my child isn't always doing that. And so I recognize myself in this, but thankfully, it's not like my entire personality.

I'm not like riding that horse every day. Sometimes you accidentally get on it, and then you're like, oh, I, yeah, I'm like, I want to be on this word anymore. Yeah, yeah. But before we get into criticism, let's do our feeling of the day, which is from Kat and I'm eager to know what's going on because all you told me was that you had a story

and I know that you're feeling a particular way but I have no idea why. Yeah, I'm like chomping at the bit to talk about this. This happened a couple days ago. This is a follow up to something that I talked about on the fifth thing years ago. Yeah, I think I also knew it was a follow up, but I was thinking like a follow up from a couple of months ago. No. So you're talking like way back. 20, 23, probably.

Okay. So shout out to loyal listeners. Because they probably, some of them are going to remember like, I remember when she said that and they probably were shocked. I'm feeling, let's start with my feelings. I'm feeling angry. I'm feeling resentful. I'm feeling a little bit of, I keep wanting to call it shame, but I think it's more like

I have anger towards something else and I also have a little bit of anger and disappointment towards myself. I don't have to figure out what I need yet, but right now what I'm. I want is revenge and I know that's probably not. One, I don't know how I would get revenge and two, like once I process this, it's probably not going to be what I actually need. So, which is so mature of you because sometimes we can be so reactionary and you may go for that revenge right away without processing and thinking it through. And so, oh, I told my husband, good job. Thank you. I told my husband, I'm going to find a way to write an anonymous Google review because there's nothing I want more than to like take

this person's rating down. And then I thought about it. And I said, that's not who I want to be. So I didn't do it. But it's okay that I had that urge. I just didn't act on it for anybody that has had like an urge that doesn't align with who they actually are. Also interesting, I'm not going to name names here, but this person I did look at their Google reviews. And they have only five-star reviews. And I think that that's a hoax. Like there has to be something they're doing to delete. Like they did anonymous emails to write good, positive Google reviews about themselves? I think they found a way to delete. There's no way that nobody has given them anything other than a five-star review. Even the best of places have somebody that gave them a four.

Anyway, I would give them zero because, well, no, they were good things about them. Anyway, years ago, do you remember me telling you about me going to the dentist? Yes. I did not go to the dentist for a couple years because... Well, okay, I can say what I remember about it, and it's that he told you you had 11 cavities. Yeah. time at one and I'd never had a cavity before in your life in my life and I was 33 at the time maybe so now I hadn't been to the dentist in like three or four years so I went in there being like one one of the reasons it took me so long to go is because after I missed one appointment I now kept

feeling more and more shame about like I haven't been to the dentist in so long and you know the thing that we want to do when we have anxiety is avoid and the thing that makes anxiety worse is avoiding so I was in that paradox do you floss every day we'll get to it. Well, I guess I'm just curious because that's when I get, I guess I feel shame about going or I feel like I'm going to get called out because I try to floss a lot, but I know that with a deep cleaning at the dentist, it just gets plaque in certain areas that I can't get.

And I know they're going to have to clean in a certain way. My gums are going to bleed. And then they're going to think I don't take care of myself. And because I haven't been in a little bit. And I know I need to go. And also, I haven't been flossing as regularly as I like. so I know in order to prep for my appointment, I need to start flossing so that I can go and not feel embarrassed and feel like, because you know they know right away. And they're like, have you flossing,

you've been flossing a lot? And I'm like, oh, yeah. And you know the minute they take that first little piece of floss in there, they can see how your gums are reacting. And they're like, liar. Well, I definitely flossed more leading up to my most recent appointment than I usually do. But I floss at least once a week, which is like, I think you're supposed to do it every day. Every day. Okay. Once a week. No judgment. There's, yeah. Sorry. Sorry. I was shocked by that, though. Well, because after this experience, you would think that I would be flossing every day. Right. But I also, okay, so I went to the dentist to this person. I hadn't been in a while. I knew that I probably would have something because I hadn't been in a while. But I was not expecting them to tell me I had 11 cavities after never having a cavity. And every time I went to the dentist before that, they'd be like, you have the best home care. Your teeth are beautiful. So I'm like, wow, I thought I had good home care. So what happened here? And I never had any pain in my teeth, nothing. So they say have 11 cavities. I'm like, okay, well, I guess I'll get them filled.

and they had to do it in three different appointments. I went to the first two, whatever, went to the third one, and they were like, ma'am, your insurance isn't paying for these fillings, so we can't do the last three, but no big deal, just call your insurance, see what the problem is, and then we'll schedule you again. And I said, okay, honestly, thank God I didn't want to get three more fillings today. I call my insurance. I had signed up for pediatric dental insurance, meaning for children. Right.

Whoopsie. Yeah. So my bad. Also, they shouldn't have let me do that. Yeah, no. I'm, like, shocked that they're, like, they know your age. Right. You have to give your birthday.

Yes. And they're like, okay. They're probably like, this is above my pay grade. I don't get paid enough to deal with this person's stupidity. They took my money. Yeah. That just was wild. And also added to the, like, I don't want to understand.

understand how insurance works and I'm confused. So it just like made it. And you can't, I'm like, I can't trust the people to say, this is not the plan for you. Anyway, so they were like, we didn't pay for your feelings because we only cover feelings for people under 18. It was 33. So I didn't go back because I didn't have insurance at that time. So I was going to wait until I got married and then got Patrick's insurance, whatever. Well, then I started, I think as more time went by, I started being like, I don't think I had 11 cavities. One of my best friends, dad is a dentist. And she was like, I bet they weren't.

Like she said I should have gotten a second opinion. But that felt like a lot. Because the last thing you want to do is you go to get a second opinion. And they're like, oh, no, you don't have 11 cavities. You have 12. Oh. But okay. So, but did the friend's dad that's a dentist, was he saying that?

Because like, is this a thing that some dentists do? It's a scam. Yes. And my mom said, she was like, well, that's why we went. to the dentist that we went to growing up, because it was like, growing up the dentist we went to was like kind of in like a double wide. It wasn't like the nicest voice.

Okay. It was in Franklin, but it was like, they didn't have any certificates or anything, no degrees. They were very nice. They were very nice. Very nice.

But she was like, the reason we went there is we went to a different dentist and they said that you guys had all of these issues. So I went and got a second opinion at this more like down to earth, I would call them. place and she was like and they said you guys didn't need any of that stuff and so my the dentist that said that said I had 11 cavities is probably the bougiest dentist I'd ever been to it was very fancy so they have bills to pay they had bills to pay uh-huh so it's a racket yes so then my friend's

dad she she said if you get your x-rays I'll show them to my dad and he can let you know but like again it felt like a lot I just was avoiding it. And then Patrick has never had a cavity. And so I was like, well, I'm going to go to your dentist and see what they say. So I had to wait to get on his insurance. And then it took almost a year to get a new patient appointment with them. So I've been waiting to get to that. I think I made that appointment last November. And it was in September, like a week ago. So I go. And I'm really nervous because I'm like, shoot, like, what if I have five cavities now? Or what if now I need a root canal because I didn't get those fillings.

And I go and it's a very, it's in an office building, not a double wide, but it was a very down-to-earth place. So I was like, I think I want to like it. You know, I sort of run down and falling apart. It's perfect. No, it wasn't. It was like in the green hills. It was like in a nice, which is the other place is in a nice area too.

Anyway, I go. The hygienist is like, your teeth are beautiful. Da, da, da, do you floss? I was like, once a week and she kind of slapped me on the wrist. And she was like, you know you're supposed to floss every day. And I was like, once a week is doing a lot for me. But she said, you probably have the genes to not get gum disease or whatever. And she's like, some people have the genes not to get cavities.

And I was like, well, I don't have those genes. They're like, I have the Helen Keller gene. Did you tell her that? She said that. Yeah. She also talked to me the whole time. And I couldn't talk back. And it was a very interesting experience.

Anyway, the dentist comes. She comes over and she's like, I've looked at your x-rays, your pictures, whatever. She's like, your teeth look beautiful, nothing like to be concerned with. Do you have any questions for me? And I just looked at her with my mouth agape. Oh, your mouth agape? Like open? She was like, yes.

And I was like, so, okay, I didn't want to bring this up. but I love that you used that word a gate. I'm trying to better my vocabulary. I know. Yeah, I can tell. I love it. I said, okay. The reason I wanted to come here is because I had a bad experience at the last dentist I was at,

where he said I had 11 cavities. And I said, I only got eight of them filled. So do you mean that I got eight of them only? Oh, wait. Basically all of this. You're like. That used the word. only I only got three of them filled.

You're like, I only got 10 and a half of them done. Thank God. She's like, okay, well, let me look at the pictures again. She was like, where were they? And I said, well, wherever there isn't a filling, that's where they were. Because the rest of my mouth is filled. And she was like, oh, I see. And she's like, oh, this is not of concern.

And she said, we really look at this as a baseline when you come back next year when we do pictures again. If there's a change, that still doesn't mean that you need a filling at that point. We might just be more aggressive with whatever cleanings we do. But she said, this also can go away with good cleanings and flossing. She said, maybe I'm more conservative than other people, but there's no need for a filling. And I said, well, I wish I would have come back here three years ago. Like, can you believe it? I mean, yeah, but. Yeah, it's sad, but it's going to put me on guard for like when I'm in appointments I just trust what they're telling me because they're the experts. Yeah. So I think my takeaways are I can't just trust what they're telling me,

especially if they have really nice furniture. A hundred percent. Yeah. If there's a fancy TV at every single chair, they got to pay. This is another thing too. I had to pay for those fillings out of pocket because then my insurance was denied, which I also was like, this is y'all's fault. Y'all ran my insurance before I got these. You gave me an estimate of, what I would pay. I paid that. And then you're asking me for more money because you didn't do due diligence of making sure that I didn't have pediatric dental insurance. Wait, so can you get representation and do we need to go to people's court? Honestly? Or Judge Judy or like what? Like, because I think that, don't you think I was taking

advantage of? You absolutely were taken advantage of, especially if you didn't have 11 cavities. And then you were paying out of pocket. Yeah. Like that part. I don't know. That's tragic. With your insurance company letting you get pediatric insurance. Right. I know. The whole thing is just a perfect storm for a lot of money taken from you and time and because i don't understand this is where i think that also am disappointed myself that i get overwhelmed by things that i don't understand instead of trying to understand things and educate myself i just throw my hands up so i just i did like whittle them down to pay less than what they were originally trying to get me to pay but this was also like right around my wedding too so i was like overwhelmed with stuff and

and I just wanted them to stop calling me asking me for money. So I just ended up at the end of the day paying it to be done with it. But yeah, I think I'm angry and resentful because I'm like, you guys took advantage of a young girl that you knew that I didn't really know what I was talking about. And also, because I hadn't been to the dentist in that many years, you knew that you could probably convince me that I needed these things. I feel like you need to walk back in there with your current dentist information, like get it in writing that you don't.

have cavities and this is not a concern and sort of like I know you've never seen pretty woman but she gets treated poorly at a store when she's shopping and then she gets her glow up and she goes and spends a bunch of money because she went in there because she had cash to spend from richard gear and then she goes gets all dressed up she looks really nice walks in with all these bags and the people working are like oh she's about to spend some money let's be nice to her treat her completely different than the first time she came in and she's like big mistake huge i have to go shopping now and she leaves she's like remember me i feel like you should walk in there and be like hey remember me i have no cavities i mean i don't know what the big mistake is like i have to go to you another dentist now less

busy but i like you felt safer at the less boozy one because i was like these people feel down to earth like these people feel like it's probably comfort from back in the day when you're in the double life. But also they felt more like, you know, sometimes, and I don't even think that people do this on purpose, but sometimes when you can feel less than somebody who, like, has a big degree or knows about something you don't know about. And so you just, I don't know, I do that when I'm in spaces

where I don't understand things and people seem smarter than me. But in this experience, I felt like I was on the same level as the dentist, even though she knew way more about my teeth than me. I also learned something. What? I know I have a little bit of a list. Okay, why? I have a tongue thrust.

Ooh, that sounds dirty. What is it tongue thrust? So I want to get Envisaline to have a little gap in my two front teeth. And I wanted to close it. And she said, before we can do that. What? Well, I like your list. Like, I don't want you to change.

Like, I like it. I know, but the gap keeps getting bigger. So if I don't ever get it fixed. then the gap is going to continue to grow. Okay. That's the problem. And so, and she said it, there's other things that it does. And my teeth don't touch.

Like, I can't bite a sandwich and pull it away. My teeth don't come together. So how do you eat a sandwich? I've used my tongue to, like, wiggle it apart. Wiggle it apart. You're like, yeah. So she said, if I just get invisibleine, I'll be able to, like, fix my gap. But as soon as I stop wearing it, the gap will come.

come back because my my tongue normal people's tongue sits at the roof of their mouth mine sits the front of my pushes my teeth out like when I swallow it pushes my teeth out and she said your tongue is a very strong muscle and it wins every time wow so I have to do tongue exercises like give me an example of one she said to get a thing of tick tacks and take a tic tack and hold it on the roof of my mouth until it dissolves just to get my tongue to start to remember to stay do we have any idea of how long that takes well I looked at her eyes head that seems like that would take a long time. She said, well, that's just, it is what it is.

Yeah, I bet you could do it while you're driving or something. Yeah. And she said, pick like a object, like a doorknob or something like that. And every time you see that doorknob, ask yourself, where's my tongue sitting and, like, reposition your tongue. Oh, like, you have like prompts around your house. Yeah. So like, door knob, tongue. Where are you?

Where is my tongue? Where's my tongue? Yeah. My tongue, thrust. Do you say thrust? Thrust. Thrust. I don't want you to fix your tongue dust, but I get it.

I think your list is so cute. Oh, thank you. It's subtle. Thanks. And I like your little gap in your teeth, but I mean, I get it. If it would just stay where it is, that's fine. But in the last year or two, it is growing and growing and growing. Yeah.

So like one day. I get it. I mean, you probably want to just be able to bite down on a sandwich, you know? That would be awesome. And not have to use your tongue to wiggle it. Well, you know something that you are an expert in. I know you felt like less than at the dentist. well, the boozy one.

But I'm thinking about how you as a therapist are very wise in your field, and I bet your clients come into your space and feel welcome. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that. excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast.

It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just trying to be. chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance.

And then there's your body having its own program. I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans. about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. We share stories and scientific insights to help us all better navigate these periods of turbulence and transformation. There is one finding that is consistent, and that is that our resilience rests on our relationships. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change.

We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On a recent episode of the podcast Money and Wealth with John Hobriant, I sit down with Tiffany the budgetista Aliche to talk about what it really takes to take control of your money. What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people when they're no longer here? We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth, starting with the mindset shifts too many. of us were never, ever taught. Financial education is not always about, like, I'm going to get rich. That's great.

It's about creating an atmosphere for you to be able to take care of yourself and leave a strong financial legacy for your family. If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for you to hear more. Listen to Money and Wealth with John O'Brien from the Black Effect Network on the I'd Heart Radio app. podcast or wherever you get your podcast. I bet your clients come into your space and feel welcome and not less than and safe. And I feel like you do a really good job at that.

And I'm excited for you to kind of do that with us as we kick off criticism because you definitely know about it way more than I do. So I'm ready to learn and talk about it with you. And I'm sure listeners. That was a beautiful transition. Oh, thanks. Yeah. Thank you.

Okay, I don't say it like that. I know. I don't know why. I just did that to be like lightened, like the mood a little bit. It's kind of fun. I know you don't, but it's so cute. But I get wanting to fix it. It's fine.

But I still, I'll go back to you with the dentist. I'll go to the bougie dentist with you. And be like, yeah. I'd be like, remember her? Big mistake. Huge. And then we just walk out and they're like, we have to go shopping now and they're like, what? And we're like, well, it makes sense to us.

You losers. But I do think like you should be able to try to get that money back. Like I'm angry for you in that. Like there needs to be justice here. And I wonder how many other people they've bamboozled. Yeah. I think that because I'm trying to also think back to like what do I need. I think what I need is just to like, one, be able to vent about it.

And then I want to like save somebody else from that happening to them. Because I wish I could go back and have just gotten a second opinion and then been like, I'm never going back to you. But I hate the feeling of being taken advantage of. and know what the other feeling you know that I hate is wasting money. Oh yeah. Because you know I love a deal. And I just, I'm thinking about what could I have done with that, those thousands of dollars that I spent there?

Well, if you wanted to criticize that, Dennis, I am all for it. I would rather complain about the dentist. Exactly. And that's what we're going to get into because there's a difference in sharing a complaint and then criticizing. So let's hop on that horse. Let's hop on the complaint horse. Okay. That's right.

So we're going to talk about the four horsemen, not the four horsemen of history, but the four horsemen that Dr. John Gottman created. And he created this out of all of his research he did around love and relationships, where he is like a, I would say, world-renowned expert in this field. Like if you want to be a couple's therapist, a lot of times you will be trained by the Gottman Institute. And I will say I wouldn't call myself an expert in relationships in couples therapy. I don't do couples therapy. The only time I'll see couples is if like a client wants to bring their partner in for a session.

So thank you for saying that. I'm really smart in certain areas. And you've been preparing for this. And also I did couples therapy for one time. No, I'm not at all. But I was just kind of making your joke of like, does that somewhat make me a little bit qualified to talk about some things, but then we ended in divorce. But I think that's okay. That's the information we got out of our, we did a very intense year of therapy leading up to

that to make that decision. So it wasn't taken lightly. Did they talk about the four horsemen at all? We did not. Okay. So what the four horsemen are is these four styles of communication that Dr. Gottman found that could help him predict the demise of a relationship. So if you had these four things and he saw you using these four things regularly without trying to shift or change, with 90% accuracy rate, he could say this couple is probably not going to make it, which is wild, but also speaks to how important this stuff is and how detrimental things that sometimes we don't mean them to be this way. And I will say a lot of times specifically what we're going to talk about criticism, a lot of times we're not meaning to criticize

to ruin a relationship, we're trying to connect with somebody or meet a need, we just do it in a way that sets us up to fail. So the four horsemen, which we're going to split up, criticism, defensiveness, contempt, and stonewalling. If you're like, what is that? Don't worry. Stay tuned in the next four weeks. Today we're going to do criticism. So do you have anything that you want to say about criticism before we jump in? I mentioned at the start of the episode, I'm guilty of it. And I think as I was reading through it, my heart broke for people that have to live or living in a household where criticism is showing up all the time. Because I just would feel so sad to have to live that way. And I know, again, I did it. I had it in my marriage. We had it on both sides. Now, it wasn't all the time. But I wish maybe we had had certain tools. or awareness to know like, oh, this is exactly what's happening. And so my hope is in talking about this that if anybody sees this themselves or recognizes like, oh, shoot, my partner is this way.

And I'm exhausted from it. That there is hope for that awareness. And then you can work on it. Because I think, well, there's a lot of tools that I learned later that I think could have helped our relationship. And I think while he was able to assess like with 90% accuracy, I don't think that he's saying that that means that's, this is going to happen if you have acted this way or if you act this way. If you have awareness and are willing to do the work and stop acting that way and start doing the, what do you call like just the healthier swap? There's a antidote. Oh, the antidote. Yeah. Healthyer swap. Antidote. But you can, if your go to is the criticism, then you find a way to swap it, the antidote of I can still make this complaint, but from a caring,

thoughtful standpoint that doesn't. And so got my need met. Doesn't like tear someone down. Yeah. So the difference, so you're talking about complaints and critiques and then criticism. So criticism is really about somebody's character. When you criticize somebody, you're not talking about a thing that they did once or a specific behavior.

it turns into like who they are. You are bad. You are selfish. You are. Yes. And so. Inconsiderate. Right.

So he, Dr. Gottman also found in his research, which is crazy and also like, how do you find all these statistics and percentages, but not our job? The way a conversation starts, he could predict within 96% accuracy rate where it would go, if it would end well or bad. And within the first three minutes, if your conversation starts well, then your conflict is probably going to be managed well. Wow. And if it starts off with one of these things, it's probably going to end not well because things build. Yeah. Well, unless you're able to like

say, oh, I just did that thing. When you criticize somebody, somebody becomes defensive. So once somebody comes defensive, then you're just rolling down this four horseman hill. And what he talked about a lot and what any therapist or any relationship helper of sorts will say, a healthy relationship is not about getting rid of your conflict. It's about how to manage it. And a lot of times the things that couples argue about or have conflict around are essentially the same thing throughout their relationship.

It's going to be the same theme. It might not be the trash every time, but it might be a feeling of not being heard or something like that. And so it's not about getting rid of it because we all have stuff and we're human. It's how do we manage our conflict well? And if you can manage your conflict well, that's great. That's better than not having conflict because if you don't have conflict, then

there obviously is a lack of vulnerability in the relationship. Yeah, because you don't feel like you can share things. Yeah. Things must be pretty, I mean, service in like, are you really sharing and saying the things that are like on your heart and that you need? So with criticism, I'm saying something negative about your character in general. What we want are critiques and complaints, which complaints are great. Think about, well, this could be good. two ways. Like a complaint box or a feedback box at a store, complaints can help the store become better, right? Like, I worked at Lemonit 2 as a young girl. And we had a feedback box. And they'd be helpful things, like things about how the line worked or the displays or how they would like to be able to order

things a certain way that help you become better as a store versus if somebody just wrote like, this place sucks, you never have what we need. I'm like, I don't really know what to do with at should we just close? Why, y'all are idiots. Right. It's like, well, not overall. I mean, maybe this one thing we did is idiotic, but it doesn't mean we are all idiots. I mean, that's how I keep thinking of it is like these very definitive statements of,

you know, you are this thing. This always happens. You never do this. And it's like, in reality, is it always happening? Did they never take out the trash? ever? Or can they never do this right? I mean, maybe they never do. And I know I just said trash because you use that as an example. But, you know, something that just popped in my head that I know you were a part of because I called you. And maybe you can use this as like a little example when we're

talking. But do you remember when, well, in my current relationship with my boyfriend, he was on his way over. And on his way to my house, he called an audible and decided he was going back home for whatever reason. That's personal to him and his family. But I was very hurt by it. And I felt like my feelings were very valid. And I called you because I was like, I don't know how to handle this. I don't know what to do because I don't want to be overreacting. And you validated my feelings and that I wasn't overreacting. And so I had to call him and share my complaint. And while he didn't see it in the time, I think if I was in. in unhealthier times, I would have really lost it on it

and been like, you always are choosing that over me. And I was able to express that more so I feel like I'm often second. I tried not to use. Or in this scenario, I definitely felt that. In this scenario, I had expectations of this, and I don't know why that is changing because your situation altered a little bit.

And it wasn't anything that, in my opinion, warranted changing our plans. But it hurt me. And I felt like I needed to communicate that. And I don't know that he fully got it at the moment. I think he took time to process. But the cool thing was I felt heard. And that was a really big step in our relationship and looking back on it. I don't think in the moment I appreciated the communication that we had. but it was such a like a I can exhale about it now because in my marriage and I played a part in this too we didn't we didn't handle communication like that and now as co-parents we do though so there could have been hope who knows but shoulda kutu-wita we're not there anymore but even in

our co-parenting like my ex-husband and I like we have our code word I bet John Gottman if he were listening to some of our conversations when we have to use our co-word to just end a conversation and circle back later i bet that's because the first whatever you said 30 seconds or three minutes or whatever it was of the conversation like we were headed down a path of like there was no saving this conversation and so i guess if we were still married we probably sit there and go round and round and try to figure it out yeah but in our co-parenting we've just been like pickle pickle's our word if someone says pickle we hang up and we circle back. Yeah. And we're probably because we started, we started unhealthy. But at least now we have our code word. And then you can start again because I think what you're

explaining in the conversation with your boyfriend that you maybe didn't have as much in your marriage is maybe something wasn't resolved, but you felt heard in that feeling of, oh, this person does, this person does care about me. Like, okay, we have to figure this out. His action. His action, made me feel like instantly he does not care about me right and i could have stayed with that story i guess i'm also just sharing the two different my marriage and then this again for how i i like to be i like to offer hope okay so we do have hope at the bottom of this once we talk about what this looks like and we're gonna you kind of start this off so this is great what actually the criticism looks like then we'll talk about the antidote and like that's what i like about john gotman

is he doesn't just say like, you're doomed. He says these are the things that don't work, but don't worry. We have something that does. Okay. Yay. We can swap this out if you're willing to work on it. So, yeah, you started talking about like the all or nothing talking or the all or nothing thinking and speech.

So let's start with that. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Cliver Taylor the fourth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports.

media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. You can have opinions.

You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. We share stories and scientific insights to help us all better navigate these periods of turbulence and transformation. There is one finding that is consistent, and that is that our resilience rests on our relationships. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes.

Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On a recent episode of the podcast Money and Wealth with John Hobriant, I sit down with Tiffany the budgetista Aliche to talk about what it really takes to take control of your money. What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people when they're no longer here? We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth, starting with the mindset shifts. Too many of us were never, ever taught.

Financial education is not always about, like, I'm going to get rich. That's great. It's about creating an atmosphere for you to be able to take care of yourself and leave a strong financial legacy for your family. If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for you to hear more. Listen to Money and Wealth with John O'Brien from the Black Effect Network on the I'd Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. So you were talking about the all or nothing thinking.

So exaggerating is a big way that criticism shows up. You always do this, you never do this. And with the dishes, the dishes is just a really good blanket example to use to describe stuff. Because I think a lot of us have had frustrations about the dishes or the trash or something like. like that. But if I say to my partner, you never put the dishes away. I always have to do it myself. You're so lazy. Well, if that's not true, they might be like, that's not true. I did it last week on Thursday. And like maybe that was the only time he did it in that year. But he immediately goes to defend his character and becomes defensive. And then what happens with me is I can be like, see,

you just care about yourself. All you care about is defending yourself that you're not even listening to what I'm saying. But the problem is I'm not actually expressing what I actually want to be expressing because criticism is such a, I don't want to say low stakes because it is high stakes, but it's a way for me to express my needs with armor on. So I'm not really expressing my needs. My needs might be like, hey, I am exhausted and I feel like I've had a really long week and I need some help with the dishes. Could you help put them away? I know I usually do them and that's like our, maybe that's even our deal that I put the dishes away or it's like an unspoken thing I really need help tonight can you help me I'm sure if you're in a loving relationship your partner will be like oh my gosh you know what

I don't want to do the dishes either they might say that in their head but I would love to do that for you if that's going to help your day be better versus me attacking them what do you know selina gomez's what's his name her fiance benny blanco yeah benny blanco bennie bernico sorry I'm not derail totally but a little bit uh do you know he said he wakes up every day and ask himself what can i do to make selina's day better that well does he do that every day that's what he said that's all or nothing that's what he said he's like i know i was like wow what's that like could you imagine what if so i mean i don't know he he seems like he he does love her he does love her yeah i know that was a derail but i was like really do you really do that and then he gifts her things

like bathtub's full of queso. Wait, what? Yeah. You didn't know that? Ew. He filled up a bathtub full of casso for her. Yum. In their house?

That's disgusting. I know, but they have a lot of money, so I don't really know how they... Like a new bathtub. Maybe new bathtub or they like just suck it out with some special equipment. Like, I don't know. Because you can't just like put that down the drain.

But anyway, let's just... I know I brought that up, but I'm like, most of us are... not in a relationship where we wake up and we're like, what can I do to just make my person's day better? But I think it's okay for us to maybe have that as underlying of like, I'm in this partnership. I love this person. So if I have an opportunity to help make the day better, well, gosh, darn it. I would try. I would try. Yeah. Yeah. And you saying that if there's something I can do that I'm unaware of, like, I want my partner to tell me. It might not be the top of mind.

I might not be thinking like Benny is, like, what can I do all the time? But if there's something that I'm either hurting or if there's something small like that I could do, I would love my partner to tell me, but they have to tell me in a caring way versus insult me as they're telling it to me because then I'm not going to want to do it. Okay, so exaggerating. It sounds like exaggerating. It also sounds like why questions? So if I'm like, why do you always hang your clothes like that in your closet. Why do you always put your dirty laundry on the floor? Why do you pull your car into the garage like that? Like, which is just random things. But that is then asking somebody to defend themselves. So we immediately also go into defensiveness. And that's something that, why is hard? Because

as therapists, we're trained to not use that word very often because it does put somebody on the defense immediately. So we have to be creative around like, okay, if I, if I am, curious about that. I do want to know what's another way I can say that. So I'll say a lot, I'm curious about this or I wonder about this or I've been wondering about this. And do you see how like, I've been wondering why, well, now I'm wondering why I've been wondering about the way that you hang your clothes. It's a little different than mine. That's very different than like, why do you hang your clothes like that? Yeah. Or if it's more of behavior that's not like a household chore, I'm trying to think of like what's popping into my mind of if your partner's snippy or something,

like instead of saying, why do you have this attitude or why are you snippy or could you say it like this? Like what has gone on today that might have you on edge? Is that okay? Is that bad? Because then they have to answer. Well, nothing. I didn't know it's on edge. So I guess maybe that's not a good way.

You can use this antidote that we're going to talk about. Okay. Yeah. I'm giving like little examples of this. But I think that example hold on to it because there's a way that we can use what I'm going to share later to form a really good statement. Okay, because I really was trying, I'm trying to ask it with like, you know, curiosity, like and care. But once it came out of my mouth, I was like, oh, I don't know that that sounds good. And I think that's the difficult part of this is a way to retrain how we communicate with each other.

Yeah. So if you're immediate responses and I'm saying all of this, I could use examples of just me doing this because I fall into this sometimes. So even as somebody who knows about this and works with this and reads about this for fun, like I still can sometimes be like oh that wasn't not the best way to say that and I'll I'll say that to specifically my husband when I say something and I'm like that's not how I meant it can I restart and that's okay to be able to like we're going to rewind that's not how I meant that to come out it's sort of like you have to ask a jury to forget something you know like in a trial or a case and I don't know I don't know the legal jargon of it but I'm objection and then they're like yeah dismissed or dismissed or dismissed or like you know like I don't know I don't know the legal jargon of it's what they're like objection and then they're like yeah dismissed or dismissed or sustained or jury act like you never heard that and I'm like sitting there and I'm like if I was a juror and all of a sudden I have this information that probably is true but it's not admissible in court for some yeah I don't know if that's what you would say but you know what I mean like suddenly you have to strike that from the record but you already know it how do you unknow it yeah it's hard

similar in a relationship it's like wait you just said that and now I'm supposed to just act like you didn't yeah but anyway that's where the work comes in I've been watching the better sister Did you watch that? Oh, yeah. With Jessica Beal, did you like it? Oh, yeah. Okay.

You don't like it? We'll talk about it maybe offline because I don't want to spoil anything, but could have been half as long. Too many storylines going on, but the court made me think about that because they did a lot of objection. Okay.

So we have exaggerating. We have why questions. It also sounds like making a joke. So this is like passive aggressiveness where if somebody does something, I mean, I have another household chore example in my head. Maybe it's because like,

I don't like doing household chores myself that I have all these examples. But if one time I asked Patrick to vacuum the stairs, I hate vacuuming the stairs, and he didn't, I think because a vacuum died because we have one of the cordless vacuum, so you can't use it when it's plugged in. And then he had to go do something. And then I ended up doing it and I was a little perturbed about it. So when he came back, are he flying? Because I used a big word. Perturbed.

Yeah. Yeah. My mouth was agape. A gape. So Patrick came back and I made some passive aggressive joke like you got out of your chores again today or something like that. And he was like, I plugged it and I was going to do it when I got home. And then I was like, don't where I already did it. And I was upset.

But I was playing it off like a ha ha, you got out of your chores. And I didn't get what I needed. And then he was like upset too because he was like I wanted to do that. So rather than making a joke, I could have been like, hey, I. vacuum the stairs while you were gone because I just wanted it done. Next time that happens in the vacuum dyes, maybe we could sweep them. Wow. Sweep them. Do they have carpet? They're hard they well now I'd have carpet stairs but I had hardwood floors. Okay. Sitting there. See you're watching Patrick like sweep the carpet. Little piece of dust here.

Yeah. Next time. Next time. We have carpet. I don't understand how that would work. Yeah. Next time can you get on your hands and knees and bake up the dart with your fingers, please. Thanks. Well, I guess in his case, had you had the full story, it totally would have made sense. I think I did have the whole story. I just still was annoyed. Oh. Okay. But I think as we talk about the antidote, like I didn't express my feelings. And so when I, even just like the story I told about the dentist, like, I become resentful about my anger when I'm not able to like share my anger. So I was holding in my anger because I didn't want to be vulnerable with him. And then I became resentful versus like, hey, I felt angry when you left to go do that thing.

And I was here still cleaning and you left him. We were having fun. He went to do a fun thing. And I was still. And it's not like he just lives like, I'm not doing this anymore. This is pre-planned. Yeah. Well, now he knows, too, that sweeping is an option.

I can't see a guy. If a guy's like, she told me to vacuum and the vacuum's dead. Like, I'm not going to lump all men into it. Yeah. We're not going to do that. But most people, or I'm thinking even like kids and stuff, like they're going to think, well, I need to charge the vacuum. They might not go next level and be like, oh, well, duh, I can just sweep it.

He didn't know what he didn't know. But now he knows. Now he knows. No excuse. No excuse. Okay. So that's the using humor. And then the last one.

Humor. Sargast. You're hilarious. I'm so funny. I noticed you didn't vacuum the stairs. Oh. It's like a good joke. Yeah.

So funny. I mean, but dealing with the passive aggressiveness is. In plain, we've all said things that we are at. We're like, ha, ha, ha. But really, we're like seething underneath. Okay. So the last one is should, using should. So telling somebody they should do something or shouldn't do something, you should do it this way.

You should do it that way. You should have swept the stairs, you idiot. Right. That would be. using two at once. Yeah, you get a two-fer. But this also, the dishwasher is coming to me with this, which we have a new, a different kind of dishwasher in our new house.

There's three levels. There's like a level for the silverware instead of using it, putting it in the basket, and then another level. So we're trying to figure out how to like organize things. And I could easily be like, Patrick, you shouldn't do it like that. You should do it this way. like that's saying that there is a right way and a wrong way and like he's an idiot basically for not doing it this way versus saying like hey i've learned that when you put the cups in on this shelf

it actually cleans them better when you do this i've learned that it the water is able to he has this thing about you put too much stuff at the bottom then the water can't get up and clean things does the water only come from the bottom though i have no idea well i always was like that's an interesting thought because i've always put the big stuff at the bottom yeah because i think that's where it goes But yes, I have the, when I moved into this house, that was my first time having three rows. Oh, you have three rows. Yeah, a tiny tray up top and you have to line it up. It's kind of annoying.

Yeah, I much prefer the basket, ticket in a basket. But I feel like, I've just always thought water's like coming from all angles. Is it not? I have no idea. I have never questioned that. I have no idea either, but you have to put big things on the bottom. Otherwise, surely that would be a design flaw. Well, and then I'm like, well, you, anyway, there's no right or wrong way.

There's just a way that I prefer. There's a way he prefers. But then if I'm really trying to, like, help him, like if he didn't know there was a tray at the top for the silverware, like, hey, I learned that there's a tray up here. And it cleans the silverware better if you put it in this tray. Do you want me to help you put the dishes in the dishwasher? That's a different way than being like, hey, you should do it this way or, hey, you shouldn't do that. In that school, they taught us that when you use that word towards yourself, they would say stop shutting all over your. yourself. So stop shooting on your partner. Like grad school? Yeah. For therapy. Yes. I was at first I was like,

oh, wow, they went over that in like, yeah, junior high. Yeah, stop shitting all over yourself and your people. Yeah. It's not going to shoot it all over him. Okay, so no shoulds. No should. I need to work on that. It's hard. And should. Should involves shame. So like when we're doing it towards ourselves or other people, it sends this message of like, oh, I'm an idiot. Like, I should have known. Like, why didn't I know? Oh, it must be because something negative about me. That's what it looks like, what it sounds like.

That's what we don't want to do. Now, to your favorite part. The antidote. The hope. Yeah. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me. Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, This platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. I'm Dr. Maya Shunker. a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans.

We share stories and scientific insights to help us all better navigate these periods of turbulence and transformation. There is one finding that is consistent, and that is that our resilience rests on our relationships. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On a recent episode of the podcast Money and Wealth with John Hobriant, I sit down with Tiffany the budgetista Aliche to talk about what it really takes to take control of your money. What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people when they're no longer here? We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth, starting with the mindset shifts.

Too many of us were never, ever taught. Financial education is not always about, like, I'm going to get rich. That's great. It's about creating an atmosphere for you to be able to take care of yourself and leave a strong financial legacy for your family. If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for you to hear more. Listen to Money and Wealth with John O'Brien from the Black Effect Network on the I'd Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. So your favorite part, the antidote. So for criticism, it is called the either gentle startup or soft startup.

So when I say that, does anything come to mind? Boom, boom. I don't know why that's it. What do I? A gentle startup. Instead of like, whirving your engine, you're just tapping on the pedal. Like being, well, I don't know why.

Sound effects come to my brain first, but that's what you asked me and I shared. Honestly, okay. Allow me to be vulnerable. You're like, anything come to mind? And I'm just over here like, room. But that's going to help people because. Because you don't want to like start it aggressively.

And that like, sometimes you're, like, you need those little like earworms to remind you things like I still when I'm in a parking garage you know what I start I've started saying what green level two green level two green green level two that's where I'm parked that's where I'm parked on green level two I got there from you thank you yeah because yes that's what I have to do to myself or else I'll forget and then I also could take a picture yeah it's more fun it's more fun just sing yourself a song yeah so with this it's Like, okay, what was the antidote? And somebody might remember.

Boom, boom, boom. The antidote. Start softly. Okay. So we're starting softly and then what? Okay. So with a complaint, it's still going to probably not feel the coziest because it's not an affirmation, right?

I'm not coming to you with like, this is great news about something. It still might feel a little bit stingy. And so the soft startup just kind of eases. that discomfort a little bit. So don't immediately just get like all spiky and defensive. So with this, this was like, I think we've talked about, well, I know we've talked about a lot of times that script to help express yourself. Like when you blank, I feel this. Da da da da da da da. This is. Yeah. I'm pretty sure when I had that conflict with my boyfriend, he knew he was driving to my house and then he turned around and did a 180 on our plans. I used our script. Okay. Well, this is just like a, it's almost

the same thing. It's just like a different version of that. It's not our story. script but you know what I mean. Well yeah it's the script we use it that we like to use yeah. Yeah. So in this gentle startup it is I feel blank when blank happened I need blank. So it's you're feeling what the facts were and then what you need. Now what you want to focus on here is eye statements versus like when you did this it made me feel like I feel overwhelmed when the dishes are not done, blank, blank, whatever time, I need some help putting them away,

or I need some help doing them on Tuesday nights or something like that. Versus when you never help me, I feel pissed off, you don't love me. You're lazy. Yes. When in reality, I mean, who knows? Someone actually might be with someone lazy.

But let's say you're not. Maybe they have had a long day. You know they're not overall lazy. Well, and I'm glad you said that because when we get into one of these kind of blow up kind of things when there is criticism that turns into like a bigger argument and bigger conflict it's usually not about that thing it's like the straw that broke the camel's back and you do need something this is a bid for connection it just isn't done in a way that doesn't set you up well so yeah it's probably not that the dishes are the problem it might be that you've

something happened at work or something's been building up or there's been a couple things that have stressed you out and this is just the straw that broke their camels back. So it would suck if this is the thing that ends your day in disarray when it could be the thing that like brings you together

and makes you feel cared for and heard. So I feel blank when blank what I need is. This is what I need. This is what I need. Super simple but sometimes hard to remember so I'm glad we have the room. Boom.

Broome. And then I have just a couple tips that can help us while we're doing that. Okay. So one, you might express some gratitude while you're sharing your complaint. Like, I loved last week when you blank, or it was really helpful when I came home and this happened. Or when you said this to me, I felt really whatever. So share with somebody, I mean, you maybe even start with that. share with something that you really like or appreciate.

So they're like, oh, she's being nice to me or he's being nice to me before you're just bust in with something negative. Another one, don't pile them on. This can be a little hard. Because when you're worked up. Yeah. Well, and because some of these things might feel really small, I think a lot of us that are conflict avoidant are like,

I don't want to make this big deal. So I'm just not going to say anything. but then they stockpile. So when I finally do share that I'm annoyed about the trash or I'm annoyed about the way he sent a text or I'm annoyed, whatever it is that they did, I open the floodgates. You're like the Kool-Aid man busting through the fence.

Do you remember those commercials when you were a kid, the Kool-Aid man? Yeah, but I just love that that's where your brain went. Oh, you know, he's this big old Kool-Aid and come busting through. And like the Kool-Aid man. You always knew when he arrived. So I feel like... It was a good thing when he showed up, right? Because it wasn't like a party.

I guess. But I mean, he still broke the fence or the wall or whatever he was busting through. Which we don't want. And like, you don't know. And now surely there's like red dye in there. You don't want to be that. Yeah. Red die.

Toxic. Yeah. Can you say damaging to the body? Can you say carcinogenic? Yeah, cancer to the relationship. Yes, exactly. Wow. Okay. So you don't want to be that. You don't want to be cancer to the relationship.

You don't want to be a tumor. You don't want to be the Kool-Aid man, even though you might want to drink Kool-Aid. Now I'm trying to think of that Arnold Schwarzenegger code about a tumor. It's not a tumor. What is talking about? You've a good Arnold Schwarzenegger. Oh, I'll say this one too. Can you do Gru from, just typical me?

No. I don't think so. But I can do the same kind of thing. I can do the Russian from Rocky 4. I've never seen any of the Rockies. If he dies, he dies. Or if I die, I die, I die. I don't remember the exact quote.

If he dies, he dies. I haven't seen any of the other ones besides four. It's apparently the best one. So if you watch any Rockies. Is he Russian or Italian? Russian. Oh. Remember how my sister and I,

yeah. He would talk Russian to each other like, hello, sister. And then one time I got a speeding ticket and I, I recorded myself on a cassette tape to my dad, but I did it in my Russian voice because we would always say, hello, father. I was too embarrassed to tell him my conflict.

I was avoiding that if I got into character, I was able to admit my mistake, my fault. Yeah, it was my, I was hiding behind my little Russian accent and a cassette tape. I didn't even do it. Which is humor. Yeah, because we didn't have voice on us. No, maybe we had cell phones,

but they were very new. So I probably was, avoiding it. We definitely had cell phones because I got a cell phone my senior year of high school and I was in college when this happened and I remember just. You could have left to avoid the mail. Sure. But mailing him a cassette tape so he had to like find a which wasn't as hard to find because he probably had one in his car and put it in and it was like me. Hello father. Your daughter and then I blamed it on him. I said your daughter seems to have inherited what you call a lead foot like implying I got it from him. And I was like and I got the ticket. and got pulled over and I'm going to need $150 or something and my insurance is probably going to go up. I'm sorry. Wait, you do sound like Gru from DeSwickville me. Oh, is that how he's, yeah.

Yeah, okay. Well, then I guess I can talk with you. Wow. Okay. So if you ever have something really like say you want to confront your partner. But that's using humor, which if it helps. It's not passive aggressive. Like I was trying to be conflict avoid it.

Yeah. Yeah. like I was I had shame and whatever like oh I'm bad like I'm a terrible driver my dad's going to be so mad at me and maybe this will make him like yeah still like me well not that he wasn't going to like me you know that was dramatic yeah you know what I mean it sounds a little too like you're trying to get out of some trouble oh it's trying to get a little trouble of course I was yeah so I do say if if it helps you to bring in some humor to get in the door but at some point you're going to have to drop it. So, I mean, that's a different example.

Hello, lover. Why do you do the dishwasher this way? Yes, why? Oh, sorry. Sorry, lover. Lover. You know, what I have learned is if you stack the dishes this way, it clean better. Yeah. Well, I also think that you just saying that brings the levity to things that like feel sometimes, have you ever been in one of those moments when you do see that somebody didn't take the trash out. And you're like, oh, you just, do you want to throw something? That humor reminds you that like, it's just the trash. I just thought of an example of as a mom and whimsical, you know how we say bring the whimsy

and we were talking, we've shared on this before way back, probably even on the fifth thing, right? Before feeling things evolved. I saw someone online when they're peeling their garlic and they smash it with. the knife, but then they take the little outer layer of the garlic off. And now I just call it a jacket. I know it has a name. You want to say jacket so bad. Because that's what, because that's the whimsy in me, because now I just say, time to take your coat off. Or like if you're putting the dishes in the sink, time for a bath. Like, where's the whimsy? So the whimsy has helped me. And I, I had not thought of this until this exact moment of my son was pouring something out of the kettle. And he poured too

quickly and water went everywhere, which wouldn't be, it's not that big of a deal. It's water. I know there is a time of my life. I don't know what it was. Call it my nervous system. Just whatever. It was all amped up. And I would have been like, what are you doing? Or like, why did you do that? Yeah. You know, and he didn't mean to do it. And maybe this is me admitting like, hello, I'm a bad parent. Need help. But I would have responded of like, ugh, you know, just like it made him feel bad for doing something he didn't. mean to do. But anyway, when it happened the other day, I was like, oh, I was like, here's a towel. And then I looked at the kettle and I spanked it and I go, bad kettle. Bad kettle. You have a bad, bad. I was like, why did you do that? I didn't do it in Russian. I'm doing it in Russian now. But I was like,

bad kettle. Why did you do that? And then Stevenson was like, oh, I think I filled it up too much. That's why probably. And then we moved on. And it was totally like a thing. But I could have made it. You could have made an attack on your child's character. Where I was behaving that way in my life as a parent, as a partner, whatever, when it's like they didn't mean to do it. But I would have made them feel a certain way for spilling water. And even myself, like, maybe it was me that spilled the water. I would have been like, oh, it was just stupid. Why did you do that?

It's not like I was just doing it to others. I was doing it to me. But I don't know. That was literally just the other day. And I never would have thought to share that story except for now. I'm like, I think that's because over the last several months, I've been practicing whimsy and being whimsical and not being so uptight and serious. And so it's like, next time Patrick doesn't vacuum the stairs.

You just spank him. Bad boy. Or the vacuum dies. You spank the, like Patrick's going to be like, why are you spanking the vacuum? And you'd be like, you died. You're bad. You need charge. Does Dr. Gottman want to start using some of this?

He can take it free of charge. I was going to say, should we ask him to add this into his? To add the whimsy into relationships, I think it's helpful. And with criticism, if you have a critique, like, can you be not the joking, passive aggressive, but could playful work? Playful. Yeah. There's a difference in using humor.

that's passive aggressive and using humor that's playful. Like when I'm like, guess you got out of your chores again, ha, ha, ha, like making a joke about it that way. That's me being so funny. But it's also me being like resentful and passive aggressive. Right. Versus you saying that is bringing playfulness into the relationship. And allow, it almost like calms me down.

Yeah. Should I do that to my dentist? Hey, bad boys. You've been very. Very bad. How many people have you swindled out of thousands of dollars filling their teeth with like a false cavity fillings? That's bringing you back to that. It's like they drilled into my teeth for no reason. Okay. So back to the. Yeah. Yeah. Soft startup. The things to remember. I'm just going to go through really quickly. Begin with something positive. Express some kind of appreciation or gratitude to kind of room, room them in.

Use I instead of you and start with I instead of you, especially. Don't start. stockpile and be assertive. So I think also you can be assertive without being aggressive. Be assertive. Like if this is important to you, allow it to be important to you. In the stockpiling, this is just throw this in because we've talked about it on the podcast before, but whenever Ben and I took the kids to our four-day retreated on site for our co-parenting with them and we did an intensive, our therapist gave us the three A's and you can do it at the end of every day. And while we're doing it with the kids, and we kind of got off of it, but we still bring about it. I wouldn't say we're doing it daily anymore, but we still practice it as a family,

and it's been helpful. And I could see how daily it could be really helpful, but such as life. It's busy. It's hard to get already gathered around. But you get to have one ask. So that way, you're not asking for like 50 things. And it's stockpiling, but you may have to make a list. and I don't, I'm asking your advice on this. Like, if you have things that you know we're building up and you want to stockpile, like, can you have a list? We're like, okay, today I can bring this up. And then maybe later I can bring this up or can you, how do you, if you have a stockpiled list,

like how do you run through that? Because for the asks, she said to keep a list. Like, do you have anything that you need? It's like you're asking, like if the kids need something instead of being like, I need this, this and this. And it gets overwhelming. and then that's not doable. It's like, can I ask you, let me back it up.

Let me do me because this get confusing with what the kids ask for, because they could be asking for things like, I need new underwear or something. And she's saying, that's when you're at. Like on Tuesday, that's your ask. So on Wednesday, you can ask for something else. But like as a parent, I might go to my kids and say, you know, I'm really asking that you make your red every day

or we start to pick up your room. But it's easy as a parent to pile on and give your kids a long list of things. And then it's overwhelming. and then they can't get that down. So on Tuesday, I know I get to ask for, let's start this with your room. And then the next day, I can ask a different thing.

And we keep a list and keep track. So I guess what I'm asking here is can we keep a list of things we have that are piled up? Because then how do you resolve those if you don't ever. I would do that. If I were you and I'm starting to feel overwhelmed by all of these things, write them out because a lot of times what you find is that they will be a theme. So if it is just like household chores, then like I am going to ask for you to help me around the house or with your kids. I'm going to help my, ask my kids to help pick up their things.

And then they might say, actually they might not say, but you might want to give them. This is actually how I would like that to be done. So being specific can be very helpful. So the big ask, it's the theme. This is the big ask. These are the ways that that actually plays out. But one thing that what I've learned with Patrick is that he and I'm this way, too on the reverse side. We're both forgetful. And so we have to, if I say like, I need this from him, I know that he's going to need me to remind him or he needs to write it down and put a reminder in his phone. So it is helpful to like write that stuff down. I'm like, hey, on Tuesdays, I need you to do X, Y, Z. Put that on in your list on your phone of the things that I need.

I think that's okay. There's a difference in like finally sitting down after weeks of building up resentment and saying you suck at this you never do this da da da da da da da da da da da and there's a difference in that in me saying hey i've been feeling overwhelmed and i'm realizing that i need help around the house or i need help with the kids or i need to help on wednesday nights this is what that help looks like and then those are the things that you list so it might be that there's an initial moment where you share something but then also a more carved out time yeah and it's the stockpiling is not about like I asked them to do the dishes, take the trash out, and mop the floors. That's not stockpiling.

The stockpiling is you're lazy. You never do this. You're always late to this. It's different things versus that's just one. Okay, gotcha. Does that help? Yes, thank you. Okay.

Cool. Over here, taking notes. Yeah. So that's the first horsemen. Criticism. Very hard word to spell. Oh, yeah. I agree.

We don't have to do these in a specific, in a specific order. So is there one out of contempt defensiveness in stonewalling that you really are itching to get out next to tease people for next week? I mean, I think defensive makes sense. And then we go for the third one, we go the most evil. Okay. So we're going to do defensiveness next week.

And then my personal least favorite is contempt. So we'll do that. Which is the evil one. Yeah. And then stonewalling will be a good one to end on because stonewalling is interesting to me. I was having coffee with my brother-in-law this morning, and he used that in a situation he has going on where he felt stonewalled. Oh. And I was like, oh.

It sucks. I hate that. Yeah. It does. So it's a good one to wrap with. So that's the order will go in. Hope you all are enjoying this. Hope it's helpful.

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