The Bobby Bones Show - BobbyCast #66 with Karen Fairchild of Little Big Town

Episode Date: July 10, 2017

Karen Fairchild stops by Bobby's house for an episode of the BobbyCast. Bobby and Karen talk about their grind to make it as a band after being dropped from record labels and having failed singles. Bobby also takes Karen down memory lane from her early career all the way up to Little Big Town’s newest music. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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You can now subscribe there too. Just search Bobbycast and click subscribe. I'm going to play you one that we did from my house with Karen Fairchild of Little Bigtown. This is episode 66. There's so many more on there as well, but I wanted to put this on this channel so you can hear what you're missing if you're not subscribing to the Bobbycast. Just search Bobbycast, click subscribe or listen. You can search and find whichever one you like. And here we go. All right, welcome to what are we at, Mike.

Episode 66 of the Bobbycast and with Karen Fairchild from Little Bigtown. Hi, Karen. Hello. We tried to do this before. I know that was my fault. We got bumped for some little show. The Voice or something. Is that what it's called? It was the voice. So, because that was a finale, right? Mm-hmm.

And who did you sing with? Lauren. Yeah. I saw her sing the other day at CMA Fest. Pull that mic down. Get comfortable. Okay. Grab it.

I don't want to mess up your fancy mind. I think that might cost $40. Really? It sounds good. It looks fancy. Yours is gold. But it's not real gold. It's all smoking mirrors up here.

So when you go do a show like the voice, they only call you a week at a time, less than that? No, less than that. I think it was less than that. It was like maybe three or four days, and they were, you know, trying to figure out what song and what she would sing on the finale. And I guess we were on her list. Well, we had blocked. What do you mean? Of people that she really wanted to collaborate with.

Oh, wow. So they get to actually make like a Santa's wish list. I think so. And so they, and she had done Better Man on the show in the battle round. And so they had called Jason and said, is there any way? And he's like, well, they're off. And the Bobbycast? And the Bobby cast.

And so I was like, I think Bobby would probably understand if you let him know that it's the voice. I mean, he'll probably be okay if we reschedule. So thank you. That's pretty cool, though, right? Yeah, it was awesome. And she didn't win. But you know what's funny? Country people do so well on that show.

Oh. Because they won. Here's what. This is my theory. Because I think everything is money. Everything is money. Right. Everything is money.

So you think Blake couldn't win this year? I think that Blake can't win every year. I know. So they have to find yours to not let them win, but country artists still spend money on music. Not artists, buyers, consumers. Yeah, yeah. Either hard CDs, we still have the format where people buy the most, like 60% is still physical. And we download the most more so than stream.

So they can sell music to country consumers. So if they can find their, my thing is every year they find one or two really good country people. They always do. And they boost them up. Yeah. And so, and listen, I think, I didn't watch a show, but I watched enough of it to know. And I thought she should have won just by what I watched, but they can't let Blake win every year. I know.

I know, Blake is, man, when he, like, engages his audience and says, don't y'all, I mean, the country fans are going to show us tonight what they think. I'm like, God, here he goes again. He's going to win again. And they do. I know. Like everybody, it's a, man, I have such a weird, like love, hate relationship with this town. and sometimes I get really irritated. With the fans and the listeners, it's like, I've never seen anything like it before.

The loyalty. The loyalty. I don't deserve the loyalty that I get. They're very passionate. Like, don't you see when you go out, like, they wait weeks, months. Like, they take their money that they work. I know. They come to a show.

Yeah, they pick like a couple of shows they can do a year. And they can go to a year. And they wait and they wait and they wait and they buy their tickets and they sit up front. And it's amazing. That's why we're still here. I mean, it's funny whenever you say you're still here because I think to the average

listener of country music, it would feel like, you know, you guys in the last five years have just become superstars. Like, here's a little big town. Wow. I don't know. I don't feel, I mean,

I don't feel superstars. No, you guys are now. You are. And it's time, and I don't say this to everybody, but it's time for, you guys to be in that echelon of entertainer of the year. And it's weird to put a group in there.

Thank you. But if Florida George Lyon can be in there, I think you can be in there. And they're not one person. Right. And I think once that kind of seal was broken, you can put a group in there. Well, Alabama used to be in there. Absolutely. And I think Zach Brown should be in there. Oh, what a weird thing. This is a weird thing for me too. Whenever it's you guys against Zach Brown band, it's such a weird pull because I think that they're the greatest band in country music history.

I just heard chicken fried on Big 98 a few minutes ago, and I was like, God, that record still, it just, it's so, I don't know, it still sounds so good. And he is what entertainer of the year. That's the definition. He surrounds himself with such good people. Yeah, God, that band. They're so good. And I've been able to see him 10 times. And, let's have a good job.

I get to go do cool things and be up clothes and do theaters that shows with Zach Brown. They're so, I have said this before, I think that we, it's hard to see greatness when it's at arm's length. Usually you get to see it from a long way away. Luckily, we saw Tiger Woods whenever he was in his prime. Michael Jordan, I was a little too young for Michael Jordan to really respect that. But with Zach Brown band, I was, now I'm like, this is, in my opinion, the greatest country band of all time. Yeah. Now, Alabama has way more hits, but I feel like as a band.

You know, my point is, it's tough when you two are against each other. Well, yeah, and like Lady A, we're super close to them. I mean, everybody in that category, they're friends of ours, so it's... Yeah, but on the coolness factor, it's you too. It's you guys and Zach Brown Man. That's what everybody, that's who everybody fights about. Like, who should win? Not who do people like more, because everybody likes you guys more.

Like, it's people, because Zach's never here. And Zach's quiet and kind of aloof. I like Zach, because I've been lucky enough to spend time with him. If you just met Zach, you'd be like, what a weirdo. We used to tour with him. He opened up for us. On the right when Chicken Fried was hitting, he had, we had book like 15 dates. with them opening for us, if you can believe that.

Really? Were they good then? Oh my gosh. Yeah, they were amazing. And Zach, you know, I love him and I respect him so much because he could have left our little tour and he kept that commitment. And it wasn't a lot of money and they were exploding and starting to be on the Grammy stage and they were out there keeping their commitment to us.

And I just respect him and the guys so much for that. whenever people start talking about perseverance in the industry and I guess my point was just in the time that I've been in Nashville four plus years it's like watching you guys go boom I remember watching Crook and Chase

and whenever the tornado record came out and you guys doing the Crook and Chase TV show and I would watch Coochase all the time and I remember you guys being on there with them when that record was coming out I was like huh okay

let me see what this group's all about it's kind of like a boy band but not really Like, I didn't know. Like, I, like, a boy man. I really didn't know, and I was, because I grew up in the 90s area, the Arkansas 90s area, but then I checked out for a bit. I was like, this sounds not, I am not really into it. I kind of got into alternative and some hip-hop stuff.

Yeah. Came back around, obviously, which is what put me here, but I was like, let me find out about the Little Big Town Group. And then that time, you guys have become superstars. But I guess my point is, how many label deals did you guys have, have you had? Let's see, four? You've had four record deals as a group. As a group. Does that mean you've been dropped three times?

We have been dropped. Mercury, Sony. They don't care if, I mean, they don't care if we name it because this was eons ago. I know what a eon is, but it's a big, it must be a long time. And then we were at an indie label. That's where the road to hear with Boondocks and bring it on home, that record is the record that sold a million three. And that was the little indie label called Equity. I forgot.

I almost forgot what the label is called equity. But they're not in business anymore. You get dropped from two. And what happened to equity? Do they go away? They went away. They went away as in like they did you guys go on a like a promotion? It was your record did well?

No. They were, it was like, you know, indie labels. It's always like a financial battle. It dissolved and then you were free agents again? And then yes. Wow. Three times. Yeah.

And so then that's when we felt like. Like, wow, now people really want us, you know, because we had sold a million three on that record. And all of a sudden, the people that had dropped us or rejected us, you know, during that time period, we're calling. And it was really fun. It's really fun. I love that. I mean, it was really fun to be popular for. Especially with people that rejected you.

Like, I had girls, sometimes girls will reach out on Facebook that rejected me, which is about every girl, by the way. Every girl. They've all rejected me. And they're all like, hey, how are you? I'm like, you're doing pretty good. Yeah, you're good. I'm fine.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm good. And I have a lot to talk about, but a little white church to me, did you feel like whenever Beyonce did single ladies, that she kind of stole? Do you feel a little bit? No, but I do think like that's, ours is like the hillbilly version of that. But wasn't this before that? Um, I can't remember. Mike, you may want to Google that.

But I would always, I would hear single ladies and I'd be like, hmm, that sounds like, Like maybe, be honest, they maybe heard something about little white church. No, no, I highly doubt that. But I do think it's like the redneck version of that. Should have twins just now. Wow. They haven't put out of the same. You know what?

I guess I don't. I think her dad said something. Yeah, he did. I bet he's in trouble. Probably on purpose. I believe everything is calculated. You do. Even Matthew Knowles.

Even Matthew Knowles, I believe, was calculated. Yeah, probably. He was a manager, so. Do you look at, like, pop culture stuff and watch, like people. Yeah, I mean, I do. I didn't happen to catch the worst dress thing on E the other night, but Philip told me that I made it. For what? The CMT Awards. And I usually watch E and for some reason I must have missed it, but they didn't like my boots. And I planned my whole outfit around my boots. So for you to be a worst dress, though, because you have your own clothing line.

Yeah. You just need to be on a list. It doesn't matter if it's worse or best. Well, that's what I say. It's like if you're on a red carpet, you're going to be on the worst list eventually. But I didn't know it. And Philip was like, hey, I hope you didn't take that to heart. And I was like, take what to heart? Oh, you didn't know. And he goes, oh, did you not see E? And I was like, crap, no, what?

But anyhow, I don't know. I think Cat Seller doesn't like me or something. If. I mean, maybe she does. just look for people to talk about. Here's the thing about good and bad. It matters. If you're on either one of them,

if you're on the most powerful or the biggest douchebag lesson, I've been on both. Sometimes at the same time. That's when you know you're doing something right. If you're on the worst and the best list. You just want to be on a list because that means you matter. That's true.

How many years was it that you didn't matter? Oh. Forever, right? Forever. Who would have thought you'd be upset or at least irritated that you didn't make ease best. You're on the worst dress list. Yeah, I think, yeah, you know, I mean, sometimes I just wear stuff because I just want to.

And I know, I know that I'm going out there a little far and I don't care. So it didn't really shock me. But I was like, Dad, Gummit, I do think that the boots were good. I don't even remember the boots. I know. Well, you've got a hot chick girlfriend, so. Yeah, for now. We'll see.

Oh, my gosh. I don't know how long she can put up with this. I get her in more trouble. Oh, I know the drama. Well, no, just me, general. No, not even the drama. Not even drama. Just me as a person.

Yes. Are you hard to live with? Are you hard to love? She doesn't live with me. Well, you know what I mean? Hard to date. I'm hard to be a human around. I have no human skills.

Like very little. What you do right now? Oh, because there's a microphone from my face. I'm the most amazing human ever. Look at me. I'm so personable. Get me out of this microphone room. I had nothing to say.

I don't believe that. I don't want to talk about me. Okay. Let me talk about sleep number for one second. So, you know, I do the show from my house, and my bedroom is like right down the hall. And so I have a sleep number in. my bedroom. I love the sleep number bed because of how well I sleep. My sleep number setting is a 30. And right now, sleep number has introduced a new bed. It's the sleep number

360 smart bed designed to keep each of you and everybody effortlessly comfortable for your best possible sleep. Like all their beds, sleep number 360 smart beds let you choose your ideal firmness and support on each side of the bed. That's your sleep number setting. All new responsive air technology, the bed senses your every move and automatically adjusts to you. So you stay sleeping comfortably throughout the night and how about this the sleep number a 360 smart bed can even pre-warm each side of the bed so it's just right for both of you so there's that my sleep number setting is 30 sleep IQ score last night I don't think I had mine on last night because it was a long night but it's not a lot of times in the 90s uh right now lowest price of the season say five to

seven hundred dollars on most of the popular 2016 beds go to sleep number dot com and find a store near you call 800 next bed and I do think you're going to love it telling bobby bones told you all about on the bobbycast. Okay, so let's see. How about this here? This is, see if this rings the bell. Oh, my gosh. How did you find that?

What is this here? That's a gospel band I was in, like, oh, my gosh, a long time ago. Like how different I sound. Lord, send me. Yeah, I grew up in the church. And that's my friend Rick Kittleman that's about to sing. I will say that band Fierce singers in that band

Truth You know truth? Yeah, I know it because I know you. But did you know it outside of knowing me? No. No, yeah. I don't think they're around anymore. Oh, they stayed after you?

Like after you left, they stayed being a group? They're a band. They're like a church on some, like think Tower of Power with horns and... Yeah? And they travel around. And, I mean, I went to, like, all over the world. Really?

With them. Mm-hmm. Great learning experience. When you grew up, would you sing in church? Like, I want to get up and just sing. You raise your hand and go up and sing. No, I had a horrible stage fright. Really?

Like, I would stay up all night long. My dad would, my dad was a businessman, and he would lead, like, praise and worship on Sunday, do the hymns on Sunday morning because he loved music. And so he would make us get up there and sing with him. and I would literally stay up all night long. But secretly, I really wanted to do it. But I was just so afraid. Who's that?

When you say? My sister and I. She sing? Does she still sing? No. Was she a good singer? Yeah. And my dad has a beautiful voice.

Mom didn't sing and my brother didn't sing. So we grew up singing in the church. But we grew up, the choices were gospel music or country music. And that's what we listened to. until like my sister started driving us to school and then we started listening to like then it was the loop in Chicago So she was older sister?

Older sister, yeah, and we would listen to like James Taylor and you know other stuff like the Fleetwood Mac and whatever, whatever was on the radio and so that's how, that's kind of my musical roots. So I ended up being in this gospel band for a while. So how do they come to you to be in a gospel band? Does it pay? Does it the gospel band pay?

Not really. I mean, they pay enough to, like, it's a ministry. So, you know, they're doing good out there, so they're not paying very much, no. Like, my preacher would get paid, but, you know, it wasn't banking. No. He'd made a living. Right. If you were to stay in truth and sing the whole time, would you have a nice house?

No. No. I mean, no. Like, Michael W. Smith has a nice house? Yeah, but that's different. Lofstein has a ruin. It's like 40 houses. Yeah, that's because they own what they're doing.

You know, if you're a hired gun to be in this band, you're not going to make a lot of money. But I found mostly for me, like the reason why I wanted to get out of gospel music was just because I wanted to just be who I am all the time and not feel like I'm duplicistic in my living. You know, like marrying commerce and art and ministry. It does feel weird.

I think that's a, it feels very weird. And I always felt very conflicted about it. You know, like what you just experienced this weekend of going and going to Haiti and think about if you're charging. And, you know, it just gets to be like, I don't know, it just felt, felt weird to me. I'm not, I'm not knocking it. I'm just saying for me, in light of. my faith and I just felt like

I needed to move on. Not moving on in my faith, but moving on in the business and career. I have trouble with that in a way. So my manager, Corrin, Capshot, I was talking to him and I said, hey, I have trouble sometimes because I

like to do things for people, but also have a career and I want to have a great career. And I want to be able to work hard and earn my money. And I was like, I told him, I said, I'm struggling with this sometimes because maybe I should do more of this good stuff and take away some of this career. And he said to me, the bigger you get, the more you can do. Yeah.

If you love your career and you love helping, then the bigger you get, the more successful you are, the bigger your pipeline is to helping everything you want. By you talking about it, by you doing it, by you giving money, by you. And I was like, okay. Yeah, I mean, think about it. Like with Pimp and Joy, if you didn't have this huge platform, you wouldn't be affecting so many people. It's because of the platform that you get. I struggle with it, though, too, like you did. Yeah, but you're not, you're not like saying, you're not saying that it's your only thing you're doing, you know?

It would be different if you're saying, buy Pimp and Joy T-shirts and come down to the altar, you know? I mean, you know what I mean? It's like you're a professional. You're doing your job and then you're... I look at some of these preachers, they're making millions of dollars. Yeah. I mean, I... I watched Bono.

I went to see you two the other night. Were you there? No, but all my friends were. And I'm so, I was so jealous watching everybody's... You have to go. And that's another way where I think... Didn't you post it was like church or something? Well, I just posted that it was like, it was just unforgettable.

I think Miranda posted that it was... I don't follow Miranda. Maybe... You don't. No, maybe I saw your post in Nicole Island. Do you know Nicole? Mm-hmm. She was there too.

And both of you guys were posting like these epic, greatest show ever. And I was like, oh, man. It, oh, man. You felt like Bono's a preacher? Yeah, but in a good way. Like, not in a, somebody asked me if it was super political and it wasn't. It was more of what we're talking about. It was like he was there to uplift people and to motivate them and to inspire them and then to rock the house.

It wasn't like, I didn't take. take it. You know, there was a little bit that got a little, I guess you could take it as political, but I didn't see it as that. I took it as he's raising awareness of what we should be focused on right now. And that's people and poverty and humanity. They're really good too. Oh, okay, well, before the sun goes down, you know, you kind of think about production and I know because your band, you think about production and what you're going to do. And so the sun, you know, it was broad daylight when they came out there. Well, they just handled it like you would as a festival act like you're you're out in the broad daylight you just

got to like rock it out you're not trying to do anything you're just like playing your songs and being amazing like they are and then as soon as the sun started to go down then you started to see like the first elements of production and then it was the greatest i mean do you know have you seen the show abstract on netflix no so the lighting director as that does um biance and does the YouTube tour like forever and ever. She designed this tour, and it will just blow your mind. But you have to watch the show. She's on the first episode of Abstract, and it's so inspiring.

What's the show, though? What's abstract? It's like all creative things. Like one's an architect, one's about a graphic designer. One is about her. So it's like taking the light source and how she's going to light Beyonce, and she's done Broadway musicals, and it's just fascinating.

It's like the crem de la crem of people in their art forums. That's what the whole series is about. I'm a nerd too. Yeah, I'm a big nerd. You're talking to me. Yeah, I'm a huge nerd. I know your podcast people are probably like, boring.

Stop talking about that. That's the opposite. My podcast are on nerds too. They are. Okay, good. We have a great, little nerdy audience here. So, okay, you leave truth. Were you really like superbly talented in that band?

No. Where you felt like you'd outgrown them as an artist, as a singer. As a performer, did you feel like, man, I think I'm a little bigger than this? In the end, I thought it's time for me. Like, I got to go. I got to move on. And we were singing so many shows. And it starts to just, like, really destroy your voice when you're singing, you know, 250 shows a year.

So you stayed on the road. I stayed on the road for three years and did a lot. the shows like crazy crazy crazy and we would sing like three hours a night so it was a lot of strenuous i mean gospel singers singing from their toes you know and um harmony band like super tight harmonies horn section the whole deal but yeah i mean at the end i felt like it's time for me to go so where'd you go what'd you do let's see i made an indie record a gospel record with a girl named Lee Capolino who is still one of my... You do your research.

And I made that record with Chris Harris. Host of The Bachelor. No, not that. Oh, different, Chris Harrison. What if it was Chris Harrison? So this duo is called... It's very creative, Karen Lee. Because you were named.

Karen. And her name was... Yeah, yeah. The cover looked like a J.C. Pennycalfield. catalogs covered. And so this was gospel? Yeah. Ish.

Yeah, ish. But more in the vein that I felt comfortable with, you know. I literally don't recognize. What you mean charging money? Is that what you mean? Is that kind of like I'm trying to. No, like, because we were, you know, it was more of our voice. Truth was more of the guy that was in charge his voice.

We were just hired people, you know. But I have not heard. this. I swear to you, I have not heard this in like 15 years. Is that you? No, I don't know. I think it's me. This love has. I forgot about that. So that's what I did afterwards. And then Lee and I did the same thing. We were just like one day. I mean, we were so broke. And we were both married. I was not married to Jimmy then. We were married. I was married to someone else. Mark Childers.

How old were you then? Who was Carrie Underwood's band director. Now? Musically. I just met him. Mark. Mark, that's the same. You're married to him?

He's like best friends with Carrie and Mike and then his wife, Ivy Childers. I know them. I was married to Mark. Wow, what a small world. Small town. Wow. Small world. So, okay.

How old are you though when you guys are in this duo? Oh, gosh. In my 20s. So I moved to Nashville in 94. Yeah. And this is in Nashville. You did this in Nashville. We did this in Nashville.

Chris Harris, who's an amazing musician, he produced that record. And another one of the greatest tips. Call Save it for a rainy day. You're kind of torturing me right now just because, not that I don't have the fondest memories of this, but it is part of growing up. It's part of the story, too.

It is part of the story. Without the truth and without. Karen Lee, you wouldn't have a little big town. That's true. Like you wouldn't. Well, Kimberly and I were friends before this. Okay, cool, but you didn't get together. No, that's true.

Without all of this, none of this happens. No, you're right. Part of the story. Part of the story. So you guys decide, done? This is your life. Yeah, we still talk all the time. She just came to the last Riemann show and brought her whole family.

She's like, dang, I was with Cameron for a little big town. No, because she's in a group called Point of Grimes. Oh, I do know Point of Grace. Yeah, yeah. So she stayed. She went on to do like, we both were singing demos for people and singing and like trying to make a living. I used to sing at Amway Conventions and sing like cover tunes and stuff.

And I would get paid to put a band together. And she and I did that for a long time and that's how we paid our bills. So after Karen Lee, maybe a little bit during Karen Lee. It's a terrible name, by the way. It's a horrible name. What a terrible name. What a terrible name. And I think that I want to blame that on the label at the time, but I have to take responsibility that I was standing there.

And how come your name got to go first? I have no idea. Because I would think in a two-man, we'd be like a coin flip. Lee Karen. It doesn't matter. It's always, because anything sounds normal once you say it. Like the first time I heard Florida, Georgia line, I was like, that's the dumbest name ever heard. Now it's just normal.

Right, yeah. Chumba Wumba. I was like, one of the greatest bands of history of music. Now it's just normal. Are they? No, God. I have one song. But it's a fun name.

I was like, wow, I missed the Chumbabwamba thing. Now he's have one song. Okay. So you and Lee, you're a duo. Yep. And you're no longer a duo. No, we both looked at each other like, are you having fun? She's like, not really.

I'm like, I'm not either. And so we just decided that we would let it go. So then what do you do? So then I'm singing demos like crazy. Do you sing any hits for people that you remember? Like you sang a demo for? I sang. She only smokes when she drinks.

I think I sing a female version of that. I want to say it was that demo. I used to sing, like, all the time demos and sessions and just whatever I could do. Did you feel like you're better than a lot of the people around you? Like, really? Like, in your heart, did you? We were like, man, how come I just am not? I got a ticket one day, and I had, like, tiered up on the road after, it was like after a session or,

I think we had lost a deal or maybe we were close to getting a deal. I can't remember. But I just remember thinking, God, this is never going to happen. And I was kind of by myself in the car, like, really, I'm not a super emotional person, but I was emotional. And I got a ticket. I guess I was speeding while I was crying. And so I had to dry it up on the cop.

I'm too prideful. Oh, you're supposed to leave it for the cop. I'm supposed to turn it up a notch. I know I should have, but I didn't. So I got a ticket and then then I was even more sad like, loser. But weren't you frustrated though because did you feel like I'm really good yet nobody's taken notice of me or I haven't succeeded like I'm watching my peers around me do? Yeah, I mean, I really felt that way when when the band got together and the four of us,

we got a record deal fast and we got multiple offers and we signed and we thought this is going to be amazing and we sang on like an Oscar de la Jolla fight on HBO and I mean they you know all of a sudden we were in limousines and we were thinking this is this is it like this is going to happen and our first show was at the opera so we had never sung in public until the grand old opera wow yeah so we were just thinking that was going to be it and then it wasn't so you and Kimberly knew each other first but you didn't sing together we sang together in college and like Like we were in this... But like buddies.

Yeah, but we were buddies. Like we hit it off at choir camp. But then you moved, you both were in Nashville? She was in Knoxville. I was in Nashville and she was commuting. She was singing, she did an independent record. And when she was singing like little honky talks from here to Knoxville and traveling back and forth. And then she moved.

And so as soon as she moved, we started hanging out. And we were just brainstorming one day. I was, I was like going to do a country solo. thing. That was going to be, and so was she. And then we started brainstorming like, maybe we should do something together, but the Dixie Chicks were like monstrous. They were selling millions of records and we were like, why would we do a girls group? Because nobody's going to do it better than them. I mean, there's no purpose in doing that. But then we started thinking, well, nobody's ever done like a Mamas and the Pappas or a Fleetwood Mac and country music, not with,

not where you could, you know, like really have the harmonies be the lead singer. So we took off trying to do it. Was it ever thought to call the group Karen Kimberly? Because I love the idea of taking two names and slamming them together. Not ever one time. Not every one time. So it's you two and you're like, okay, we're going to do something. Where does Jimmy come in?

We thought it was going to be a trio. And at the time I was married to Mark and he was on the road with Shelley Wright. He was in a band with Kelly and then Jay DeMarcus from Ryan. Rascal Flats and Jodon Rune Rascal Flats. They were all in a band together. So Kimberly and I used to go down to see Rascal Flats play at the Fiddle and Steel Bar downtown. And Gary used to show up and sing. We were like, holy cow, oh my gosh.

But they weren't a band yet. There was just always different configurations of them up there. And we were looking for singers. So Gary would show up and sing with Jay and Jodon playing in a different band. Yeah, they would sing at the fiddle and steel. like when they weren't out with Shelley Wright. And there was some other musicians. So Rascal Flats would show up.

But they weren't Rascal Flats. But they would come together and play. But then they all go back to it on their own ways. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I think Gary might have been singing back up for Michael English at the time. And then Billy Currington would show up.

And he would just hop up and sing. So we would be all kind of hanging out together. And then I think I think it was Jodon first or Gary first. One of them sang with us first, and then that didn't work out. So you're saying Little Big Town at one point was you, Kimberly, and one of the flats. I wish we had one of them in here, one of the flats. Like, if Jay were in here, then we could really tell the story together really well. We should do that sometime.

But, yeah, they were not a band yet. We were not a band. And Jay is still mad that we never asked him to be in Little Big Town. Yeah. If it were Joe Don, though, it would probably be the greatest looking band of all times. Joe Don, yeah, Joe Don play with us for a little while, and then Jay, Gary, and Joe Don decided they should be a band. That's crazy. And so then we got the phone call of like, we're going to be a band.

We love y'all, but sorry. And we were like, dad gum it, we've been working on this forever. In your mind, what was the perfect scenario at that point in your life? At that point, we thought, then Jimmy, Jimmy was a part of it. Who did you think the band was going to be at that point? I thought it was going to be Jimmy, Kimberly, and me, and Jodon. Yeah. I kind of thought Gary was just chasing his, he was amazing, but I could tell he wanted

to do something with Jay. So, and then, then we were like, well, dadgum it, this just isn't meant to be, like, not with, not with them. And then they put out a song, and it, like, just took off. I mean, literally, they left us in the dust. That had to be weird, right? Well, I mean, we were happy for them, but it was weird.

Not saying you weren't happy, but you're on the same level one day, and 90 days later, they're on freaking TV. They have a number one show. They're like on every late night show. They're selling millions of records and opening up for Vince Gill and all these people, and we're still, we're still back at the house. Like part of the band that you were. It was in your band.

It's now selling a million records. Yeah. That's crazy. And weird, but it also shows you how fast things can happen. Yeah. Like, I talked to so many writers and performers, and they're like, you know what? It was never happening. And there it went.

I never thought it was going to happen. And the next thing you know, I look back and it's like, that was the moment. I know. And for them, that was the moment. That's why you can't quit. Because, like, we didn't have the easiest of journeys, but it was so, like, meant to be. clearly they were supposed to be the rascal flats and clearly we were supposed to be in the band together if you call them the rascal flats they'll get pissed oh did i say that yeah yeah yeah i learned the hard

i toured with them forever man they do not like that well did i say that yeah yeah yeah i'm sorry y'all because they're like bobby rascal flats we are not called the rascal flats do i call you the bobby bones this is not even near a microphone i was like i guess that is weird somebody said the little bit time you do not call me the bobbyments because we are not the rascal flats i'm sorry i'm Sorry, y'all. I mean, yeah. So Rascal's the other thing. It's not you and Kimberly again.

Well, it's me, Kimberly, and Jimmy. And you guys have now decided we're going to try to make it as a trio. Well, somebody challenged us, like, to make it four really early on in the days. A guy named Brian Tankersley, who was an engineer. He was like, man, if you guys added a fourth person, it would give you the flexibility to, like, one person take the lead and keep the three-part, like, country triad going on. And so much more versatility. and you were like, you're right.

That would be cool. But that finding that fourth person was really, really hard. I mean, that's part of the story of the Rascal Flat deal way back years ago. So we met Philip, after all that happened, we met Philip through a songwriter in Nashville. And Kimberly and I met him at Starbucks and Franklin. And we exchanged music like CDs. Like he had his own music. Was he a lead singer of whatever his project was?

Yes, and he was about to sign, he wanted to do like a Johnny Lang, like blue. Like blues guitar. You know, singer-songwriter deal. And he was about to sign his life a way to kind of not a great publishing deal, actually a bad publishing deal. And so, anyhow, we talked him out of that. It's a big talk. And we got in the car, Kimberly and I, we were like, well, he's way too handsome and well, well-spoken to be good. So we were dreading putting his CD in the car.

And then there was... No, we hadn't heard him yet. It's not a recommendation. Somebody had been bragging on him that he was an amazing singer. So that was like going to be the exchange of music. And we got in the car and we were like, oh my gosh, he's got this voice. And we had always said if we could have a singer that sounded like he smoked all day,

that that would really change the texture of our voices together. And that's what Philip sounds like. Was there somebody in between Jimmy and Philip? or seven somebody's where you kept trying and it didn't work? No, and we never sang as a band until we were Philip and Jimmy and Kimberly and I. The night at the opera. I think we sang in CAA's conference room with Joe Don once. As Joe Don is the other member.

Uh-huh. Jimmy, Joe Don, I got to ask Joe Don that, but I think it was one afternoon on like a conference room deal of playing our agent songs. I have video. I don't think I have video of any of the Jodon Gary's stuff, but we have video way back. I have video of like some CIA meetings and where we were trying to figure out if we could afford to open up for Billy Gilman.

And what people don't understand, you say afford to open up, it costs money. It's not like, I'll just use my girlfriend as an example because she won't care if I use her. She's opening for Brad Paisley right now. And Brad says, I'll give you $1 per show. You have to figure out how to get your travel there,

how to eat, how to pay for your band. and sometimes it costs a dollar and five cents. Right. So it's can you last for, she's doing like 60 days with Brad. And Brad's very generous to her. Yeah. And his people are so, Kendall, and they're very, she got lucky with Brad. But a lot of artists struggle and they lose money.

Forever. Forever. And then when you're splitting it four ways. Oh, I'm going to get to that in a minute. I don't even know how. I mean, then you're like really. Like, are you splitting it four ways? Yeah.

Oh, yeah. And I used to rent the van. It was my job. I would advance the shows. You were the tour manager? I was like the tour manager. Sometimes I would advance under a different name. What's your fake name?

Do you remember? I can't remember. Was it something crazy like Karen Lee? Because that'd be crazy. That would have been good. Why didn't I think of that? I needed you around. Yeah.

So, well, we would have to come up with, okay, $89.99 on a sprinter van. Not a sprinter van. Not a sprinter van. Not even a sprinter. Sprinter is a minibus with little beds, but it's, feels like you're laying in the back of a truck when you hit bumps laying in the lowbeds. Yeah, yeah. This would just be like a regular 15-passener van. Yeah.

And then we would figure out meals and Starbucks and literally I have video of like me beating little Big Town bracelets in the front of the van because we needed to sell, we needed to sell like 10 bracelets and 15 t-shirts and to have gas to make it back home. Do you look back at that time though and go, man, that was fun? Mm-hmm. Like, man, that we're looking back at that. the struggle, the real struggle, because I do that now. I look back when I was, at the time, it was more the paycheck to paycheck. Like, I was below and that would go have to do extra things to me, but that was the most fun because I had everything in front of me. Yeah. Yeah, we used to,

we would drive for hours and hours and hours and just the four of us. And we were so tight. and we would just like dream, just sit out and dream while we were driving of things that we could do and what we would do if we ever had a little bit of success and a little bit of money. And that's why now it's so amazing. It really is because it was a long, long, long time. Who was the person that said Little Big Town? That name? Yeah, Little.

It was a publishing company. Little Big Town Publishing? and did they go away before you took the name? Yep. And so you thought this cool? Yeah. Well, we were messing with town names because of, like, Kimberly and Jimmy and Philip are like from tiny, tiny, tiny towns.

And I was a little bit of the city girl, and we were trying to find names that reflected the music and somebody turned over a CD and it's a little big town publishing. And we were like, maybe that's the name. You know, again, you become. kind of names. You know what I mean? Like you said about Florida Georgia Line or...

It was really weird at first. Rascal Flats. But now Little Big Town is just a name. Yeah. It's just the name of the group that you hear all the time. It's not even weird. But I would think the first time, Little Big Town, that was weird to hear.

Yeah. Hindsighted, it is. Think about the first time. This is a very selfish thing for me to tell you to think about. Think about the first time and you won't remember it, but you ever heard my stupid name, Bobby Bones. Like, who, is that a pirate? Is it a porn star?

So is Bobby Bones your real name? No. No? No, I realized Bobby Estel. And so I was giving that name when I was like 17. Hey, Mike, got to get her copy of my book on the way out. I'll sign it for her when she leaves. Yeah, no, no.

I'm sorry. I'm just kidding. I was, I know it wasn't. It's only on Wikipedia, don't worry. No, no, that's my real name. And I don't even hide it, but it's, it was forced on me. I was 17. And so it was like, you can be Bobby Bones or Bobby Z.

I was a kid. I don't know. I was like, well, Bones at least sounds like an actual person. And so everywhere I went, I was connected to somewhere else because I went from Hot Springs, Arkansas to Litter Rock, shared some listening audience, Little Rock to Austin, Texas. And I was already doing nights. And then Austin, I was starting doing a national night show. And then the morning, everything was connected.

I could never leave the stupid name. Everywhere I went ahead had this stupid name. It's not stupid, though. Now it's not because it's normal. Because it's normal. Right. And it's because it is something, you know? Like, it becomes...

Well, I feel like a little hurt. You didn't know my real name. Like a little bit. My feelings are a little. I'm just going to be honest and be selfish for a second. My feelings are a little hurt. You know my real name.

That's okay. I didn't want to hurt your feelings. No, you should, though. We should. That's honesty when you can openly ask and hurt feelings. When you can put other people at the risk, that means you're being open and honest.

I'm sorry. Why would you be sorry? You didn't know. Let me talk about Wag Walker for a second. So let me talk about Wag Walker for a second. It is an on-demand app for getting a dog walker. It's like an Uber for your dog.

I use it all the time. Just search wag-walking in the app store you can search wag i love it because again let's say i'm at work and it's like one p m and my dog's got to go out i go boop find somebody close and they'll come to the house so thoroughly vetted so i mean they know these people quality experience you can gps track your dog's walk you have notifications if your dog uses the bathroom peeves poops your apple actually bark at you there's a photo report card summary after each walk you know that your dog's home and safe and details and how many times you use the bathroom you don't have to be home

home that's when I use it that's the only time I use it actually is that I'm not home Wag send you a free lockbox or you can leave an alternate home access instruction and so you can say hey get in this way you know type this code in my dog just jumped up here on me right now thank you dusty and the dog walker can uh will come in anyway it's a must have I think it must have app for every dog owner just search wag walking in the app store get your first wag walk for free by texting the word bones to 25 324, Bones, B-O-N-E-S, to 25-3-24. Wag will send you a link, download the app, get your first free wag.

All right, so add some stuff for you here. Wag Walker. You have a dog? I do, honey. Old dog? Brand new. Wow. Nine months old.

Puppy? A puppy. Are you training the puppy? No. Who's training the puppy? We have a trainer. Yeah. Out at Cedar Valley Canine.

Really good. Yeah. Why do you have a trainer for yours? I know. My dog is now 14. And when I have my dog, when he was young, I could not afford a trainer. So I, I, I, oh yeah, yeah, animals are expensive. My dog is a better life than I do, probably.

Like, he just chills. Where is your pup? Downstairs. His own room. Just chilling out. Like being a single guy and, you know, nice house, got some room, got some backyard. He has his own room. It's not like a kid or anything yet.

So he just chills. You'll just be a great dad. I don't know. I don't know. One more thing you don't know about. I don't know anything. I want to play some stuff. I want to talk about me.

I don't want to talk about me. You're a little big town. You're in a van. You're driving all around the country. You're opening for who? When we're in a van? Yeah. Probably the most Phil Vassar.

And then Keith took us out on like a weekend, a couple of weekends of shows. Was it Keith? Because I've had a bunch of talks with Keith. Was it Keith while he was still Crazy Keith? Or was it Keith after he kind of fixed himself? The first ones were Crazy Keith. Yeah. And then not crazy.

Yeah. But he, let me tell you, even Crazy Keith was still like this amazing good. I didn't know Crazy Keith. Sold like just amazing person. And so, yeah, just a different part of his journey. But both. We've toured with Keith more than we've toured with any. anybody and Keith was the first guy that ever gave us a chance on a big stage like an arena tour it was him did you guys consider a band or a vocal group like we like boys to men or were you like Hansen like if you had to pick one like what did you consider yourself like because a lot of times we just see maybe three of you and then one has a guitar or maybe two guitar well but you haven't I know I'm going to get my feelings hurt I've seen your shows and you have been around you of course you have a band around you but I'm saying yeah but but you're but you're

haven't seen us play like just the four of us let me think for a second hold on a minute have i ever seen the four so like to be fair i don't get to i'm on the road every weekend i know working my feelings really aren't hurt good because you can wikipedia my name real easy um okay back to my question do you consider yourself more like boys to men or hanson but wait can we go back to the name thing really quick we do whatever you want you're in control here no um like john mellen camp doesn't like to ever be referred to as John Cougger, right. Yeah.

So I didn't know if your name. You didn't know my name, but it's okay. I didn't know your name, but I didn't know if it was a bad thing. No, of course. There's no, like I told you before, I went on the year. Jake,

I got to a screaming match on this. There's no rules here. Okay. Just talk, say whatever you want. Ask whatever you want. I don't care. Okay, so back to Hansen or Boys to Men. Well, are you more like Hansen or Boys to Men?

Well, boys to men, I think. Okay. But I think more like Hillbilly Mama's and the Papa's Flewwood Mac. Fair, but people maybe that don't know music or below 35 won't get that reference. True. But they'll get

voiced them in. Oh, yeah. Water runs dry. I'll make love to you. I'm bend to knee. The two album, the blue album. Are you kidding me? You got to be, come on. No, I love them. 90s? I just saw them sing last year with Dan and Shea. It was awesome.

Yeah, boy, yeah, yeah. Can you talk about 70s versus 90s. Yeah. That's why. So you're okay, so okay, you're Your country boys to men. And here you are, you're up there. And let me play a song for you here. Tell me about this song right here. This sounds like a church song. Yes.

Because it sounds like the guys' parts and the girls' parts are split up on purpose where you're not allowed to dance with each other. It's like you're singing across to each other at church. That's a rock picture in my head. You know what, that is, that's an overthought record. And that is us not having our voice, like not fully knowing who we are. But there's elements of us way in there, you know? What are you here we're saying?

There's some good stories about this. Record, song, time. We didn't want that to be the single. common for a first single. Yeah, but they didn't listen to us. Did you begrudgingly go out and perform it? You're like, oh. No, because we, no, but, but, and I like, I like the song.

We like the song fine. It's just that we, it shouldn't have been a first single. And the record, and we blame ourselves for this, but we, it's kind of like a vanillaed out version of us. You know, like very, very. too much thinking. You can get in the studio and just like think too much. And you can have people around you that think too much. And sometimes that doesn't make for the best music.

But it also is part of the journey. It's like sometimes you just don't come out of the gate getting it right. And it's not anybody's fault. Like the people that we made those records with were obviously trying hard. You know, they wanted us to break. They weren't trying to do a bad job. No. They weren't trying to put out a bad sample.

No, not at all. I wondered did Lee, of my favorite group, Karen Lee, by the way. I wonder if she's like, man, I could have been Kimberly in Little Big Town. No, because I think she thinks too much that she had a path and we had a path and it was all what it was supposed to be. I bet she still does, though. I would. I would. Okay, so don't waste my time.

Doesn't work. Right. Do you get dropped after that? I think we had, did we have one more? I think we had one more single than we got dropped. And so when you're dropped, how does that work? Do you get a call? Oh, we were on the 5 o'clock news.

You know, Demetriah Caledemos and everybody, I think that's channel. I can't remember what channel that is. We were part of a mass exodus of artists at Sony. And I think they're like 15 artists that got dropped, and we were one of them. But for some reason, I mentioned on the news and that we had owed like millions of dollars in recording debt. But isn't that like recoup that you don't. really have to pay unless you make it back. Well, right. Yeah. But it was weird that we were on the news, and it kind of really, it just sucked because we were thinking, God, now we're damaged goods.

We're two label deals in. You know, we were out of the Mercury deal. Now we got dropped on Sony. We had boondocks and bring it on home, and Sony still dropped us. So that means they really didn't want us. When you say you had boondocks, like it was already out, or you had it sitting there We had it ready to go. Okay, so it hadn't been, it wasn't out yet. No. I ever listened to this on the radio. I love the end of this song.

Thanks. I do too. This was the first time we got the sound right and like got in the studio. We didn't have anybody looking over our shoulder and we made the music we wanted to make and we were broke and like three broken relationships and a husband that passed away. And it was a difficult time for the band. But we found our solace in making music. And, you know, when you're desperate, then you really get down to it. Could you feel like when you were recording this, though something was different?

Yeah. Like, really? Oh, yeah. Because it's hard to feel different when things just haven't gone right for a long time. You know where we felt different? When we were in Afghanistan, we had this song, and we could tell the soldiers, like, they just loved this song about home. And they didn't know us. We didn't have a hit.

And they talked about this song all the time. Was it written at the end for it to be the breakdown? You get a line eye. Uh-huh, yeah. That was in. I always wonder how do you guys decide who? We were sitting around just like this. We were at Wayne Studio, and he was like, you know,

he was, let's, it feels like it needs like a cool vamp on the end, but like something that Liao Lovett would love, you know, like something cool, like, that feels familiar and yet it's new. And so he started singing that, and then we started just kind of vamping around parts. And he was like, that's it, that's it. And then we one by one quickly went in and just started singing those like ad liby things. You know, five-gaport and church on Sunday. So that was just the thing that happened.

Wayne started it. And then he, yeah, I think he came up with that. You know what? I like it. First of all, I like all those voices. And to me it sounds a bit like, I want to hear some funky Dixielabry. The round of that. Yeah.

And I love that. that. You know, I love, so Boondocks. So you had Boondocks and you didn't go out. Like you had it. You were still holding on to it. We were holding on to it and then we, we took Boondocks and bring it on home with us. Yeah. Which is, this was the biggest single we had ever had right here. Not yet in the story. I love this song. Why do you love this song? I don't know. I love those long harmonies. And I think it reminds me of That time in our lives, just sentimental. So you take these with you to the new deal? To a no deal.

I mean, we had no deal. And so that's when we went out to Wayne Studio and we just made just a record. And we had probably eight songs that ended up being on the road to hear record. And our lawyer pitched them around town to people without telling people who it was. And because we were kind of damaged goods and just to get feedback. And again, we got rejected several times. And then Mike Kraski, who is our old kind of one of the higher-ups at Sony, who had gotten blown out when we got blown out.

He felt like it was unfinished business. And he just really always believed in us. So he and Clint Black were starting a label, an indie label. The Clint Black, not just a guy named Clint Black. Yes, Clint Black. Yeah. And so we took this record over there to them, and then it took off. And it was so amazing.

I got to wonder, before it took off, though. So there are four of you, and it hasn't worked. How close did you guys get to go on? Okay, this isn't going to work. We're going to have to go our own ways. We never did. You really never did. No, I remember one truck stop on the way to Boston where Kimberly said, what are we dealing?

Because we were so tired and so broke. but it was just like a laughing, like, what are we doing? We're crazy. But I just think we're just so stubborn, you know, like, just not going to quit. And so we just kept going. And then this happened. So what was it? What hit first for you where you were like, okay, this thing's got some real legs?

Okay, the day we were, I think we were in, we were in a North Carolina studio, like, parking lot with our radio guy in the car, Jeff Davis. I think it was Jeff Davis, yeah. And we were sitting there. We got a call from our then manager, and we had been crucified in the press, like, for, like, everything from the way the record looked, you know, that first record that you were playing from the videos to just like, I mean. What was wrong with you? What were the same was wrong with you?

They were just saying, like, put together band, overproduced, slick, you know, boy band with girls in it, you know, just any kind of criticism. I mean, we were written up in the Tennessee. seeing like worst review ever. It was horrible. Like all these things went on. So one day, after we've been out on radio tour, we got a call and they said, hey, Bob Orman, and I don't know if your listeners know who he is, but he's like country music critic

forever and ever and ever. Do you know him, Robert Orman? And he wrote a critique of the record, and he said, this is a revelation. I take back any negative thing I've ever said about this band and that was like I mean I think Kimberly started crying like it is turning around

like this is the moment it's turning around so that and it really was and he really helped change people's perspective that we had made the record finally that we needed to make and people should pay attention and then Keith heard the record and then that's when he took us out

so what song was the radio song at that point? Boondocks So you now have put it out So you have Boondogs How long? Where did this go on the chart? Because it wasn't a number one was it? Eight. So it went to eight. Yeah and I used to mail bootleg copies of this When we had it at Sony and we weren't supposed to really be

Doing anything with it I used to mail it to radio program directors And just that were friends of ours and say what do you think Just to get feedback You know like Jenny Rogers in Boston I mailed it to her and a couple other guys, just to say, like Greg Swedberg, I think. Was he in Minneapolis then? Uh-huh, yeah.

So just people that seem to like even the first record that saw the potential there. And, you know, those people have been friends of ours ever since. Okay. I'm sure I wasn't supposed to do that, but I did. History is full of people who weren't supposed to do things, who did things. Yeah. And that's how things happened. That's right.

You got to make it Tell me about this one right here Because this is when I first started being like Hmm Who are these guys on with Crook and Chase Um I know I love I love this record

Are you supposed to say that about your own records? I think if you do say it You were very honest Because you're not supposed to say it But if you do But if you do It's a really honest thing to say You know I love it

I love it because that again was like a defining moment for the band. Because? Because we were in the studio with Jay Joyce. It was just the first time we had done something again that was a new chapter, a new relationship of production. Jay is a lot different than Wayne. They just have very different ways of producing records.

And Jay won't let you think about anything. It's all about instinct and what feels good. And when he started crafting that moment right there. He was so in it and like, it was almost like watching a conductor. He had some of those crazy parts I could tell in his head and he was just like just

going for it. And it sounds like that. It sounds like people in there really singing and going for it without overthinking. And we never thought that that would be a single much less the number one record. Is this your first number one? Ponto. Pontoe.

Pontoon. Yeah. We didn't even play this for Dungan until the very end of playing the record because we were scared to play that for him. Really? We waited until we played everything else and that was like the 12th song. We were like, and we have this. And what was his response? He liked it all.

I mean, I think, I mean, he was so happy about Pontoon because he had heard that song, the demo. And he was like, you guys need to stop. Everybody was saying, oh, it's a smash. It's a smash. And he was like, hey, it's not a smash yet. Wait. Like, hold on until you get in the studio and you make it a smash. And he was right about that. I mean, you can't start saying that when you don't even have any of it.

But he turned around when he heard it and he had the biggest grin on his face. And he was like, well, you did it. Yeah, that's it. Natalie Hamby was in sitting there. We were talking about this song. And she was like, you know, whenever they wrote it, it was back this bee into the water. You know, and they had to change the bad word. What is it?

What do you ask? I mean, sometimes live, I still say it. Oh, you do? But on the record, it's not, though. It's hitch. Back this hitch into the water. Okay. Yeah.

She said, she probably told you the story about the guy that's on the boat with them when they bought a boat. Yes. And she's like, and he's like, I hate that song. I hate that song. She's like, oh. Have you ever seen people do that in your show that may be like at a festival? I mean, not people that would buy tickets to the show. But I've seen people on a festival.

like where clearly they were coming to see Blake or somebody that was on and we were on in front of them and they'll whisper things like, why did she wear that or I hate the song? Have you ever seen people do that? Yes, because either when we play festivals and we oddly get put on big festivals in good spots, but the thing is you either know us or you have no idea. Like at CMA music festival we played the river stage, right? That's like the big ones at football field, the one that you guys played. And then they put the BX on the river.

and we're not even to be at, but they put the river in a perfect spot, 4 p.m. right before everybody goes over. And I remember like a third of the people, because they didn't want to leave because somebody good was coming up after us. They were like, what is happening on stage right now? And I can just see it in their faces. So yes. But they were just confused by us. We're out in jumpsuits.

And you had your own DMC jumpsuit. I love that. But you guys are actually good, though. There's a difference. Like, our thing is stupid. But pontoon is first number one. Tornado is number one. I have so many things.

Yeah, pontoon was, and then tornado. And then I can't, something that didn't work, I think was next. So your side of the bed? Your side of the bed. I remember watching, I was here. I remember watching the performance, like, in the bed and the person doing, like, the circle or something. I always loved your song. This is the truth.

It seems like I love the songs that don't make it more than I like the ones that do. It's weird. I know. Whatever you're about to say, say it. Because some of these times, I love, there are songs. of your, I'm just disgusted when they don't make it. I just am so angry at the industry. I know.

This came out in a time when not very many ballads were on radio. And so I don't know if that's why. But we wrote this with Lori McKenna. Same person who wrote Girl Crush. Yeah. I love this song. Thanks. I had this chorus and the melody of the verse in my phone for a while.

And then Lori had the hook. Yeah, I was disappointed when it didn't work. How did you get so far away? It's just such a good song. Like, whatever else on the radio, blah, blah, blah. Like, songs should win, which later ended up happening with Girl Crush, frankly. Yes, yes. You guys kind of kicked that wall down of can ballads work.

Well. You really did. It was like, can a ballad? And you don't get much slower than Girl Crush. Mm-hmm. I got a girl crush. I mean, I think your side of the bed is just as good as Girl Crush. Yeah, I know.

Well, you help this one a lot. But regardless of who helped, I'm just, I was so disappointed your side of the bed didn't work. Yeah. Because I love Girl Crush, obviously, but when your side of the bed didn't work, but this song, I'll say this about Girl Crush,

and I think this story has been told a thousand times, is that I think that kind of kicked a door down for balance. At least in my company, which is the biggest company, and my new boss, which I'm very close to, who brought me here, and then I helped bring him here, It was like, look at this. I know.

Like, this works. Yeah, and the power of that once it started. Sales. I mean, remember how it happened when you played it, and then it went from, what was it? It wasn't even on the chart. It wasn't on the chart, yeah. And then it was like, bam, it was like number four or something.

Number two, I remember exactly, because I remember us talking, we were in New York, and day drinking was about to, number one, and this record was about to come out. So day drinking was the single. And I was like, I'm not listening to the record until it comes out. That's always not a rule. I don't listen to record comes out.

Record came out at midnight. That's right. And there were like four songs that one of the guys worked. Your label, Steve, said, hey, these are some other songs. And I heard girl cross and I was like, holy crap. And I was in New York studio. I was like, Amy, you have to play this song. I got in so much trouble.

I've told you before they did, I tell you before, they spent research money, my company did to research this song. I see if it was hurting my show. Are you kidding me? No, no. So this is why I literally spent thousands of dollars because I was playing it all the time, right? researching to see if the controversy was hurting you? So it wasn't a radio song.

It was to everybody else was a lesbian song. Yeah, right. But I thought the song was so good and I started playing it. And I'll play it and it was like, the song is so good. And I did it for like a week, right? And so my company, they get worried and they stay higher without my knowledge and not even a bad way. One of those rooms where people sit in it and they say. Feedback.

What those rooms call my? Research rooms? Focus. It was like a focus room. And they had people listen to it and see if it was making them angry that I was talking about it. And it ended up being like 60% were okay within 40% weren't, which is still pretty high. But. You mean high on the negative side?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, a lot of people think we made up the controversy, but we didn't. I mean, there were. I know you didn't make up the controversy. I know, but I've had people in the business stop me and go, man, that was a good one y'all did. I'm like, would you think that we would actually do that? When you guys came to the studio, I, these are memories that.

thought of since, but I'm sitting here. You sit with someone, you remember things. You and Kimberly came to the studio. Just you two. We were talking about it. And Emily was listening to the show in D.C. And Emily Yard writes for the post. And she messages me, hey, she's like, that's a crazy interview.

That song. And I was like, there's a story here. And don't put me at the front of the story. Put somebody else because it'll automatically turn people off because I've been screaming about it forever. And she put like a DJ in Iowa or something first and did me second. And boom. controversy and it was I love controversy I was a lot but I was it was that weird for you guys did you feel like you were being attacked or was it awesome well we had done a few interviews kind of a couple of weeks before trying to like ward off some of the negativity that of just like maybe moms that didn't think they wanted their children to hear I want to taste her lips in the morning on country radio and they were calling and to complain and so we were getting on there saying

saying, you know, oh, it's a song about jealousy and, you know, just having to try to, like, get the stations to play it that we're thinking about dropping it because of the negative calls. So then this happens with you. And I remember you saying maybe a couple weeks before the Kimberly and I session, you said to the four of us in the studio, doesn't it make y'all mad that, like, you have, like, such a big selling song in iTunes and you're like at number. 40 something on the charts. Do you remember saying that?

Yeah, I didn't remember saying that. That's what then started it too. And then... I'm pissed. Kimberly and I came back. The post thing was written. The Iowa guy wrote his thing. Jimmy saw the Iowa guy,

I guess he wrote something on a blog or something about it. He saw that on the bus late one night. And I remember all us all gathering in the front lounge of the bus and going, oh my gosh, what is going to happen? And all I really cared about was that the song didn't get lost in the shuffle of controversy. I was afraid it was going to go away.

And I was like, this is such a special lyric, such a special song. Please don't let this go away. You needed the shuffle for the song to get out. Yep. You needed the shuffle for other songs to get out. That's the weird thing about it all. You guys just didn't do this for Girl Crush. Like, I'm not kidding.

like others ballads the you should be here from Coleswindale those songs like that would not have been on the radio if you guys wouldn't have put out Girl Crush because that song was against everything that radio was supposed to be I know by the way I was pulling my hair I'm frustrated right out talking about it

and this is two years ago it was everything wrong with radio it was slow it was female well it probably ballads weren't researching it was long yeah everything it was a six eight waltz everything was wrong with it except it was perfect

Except for it was perfect and it stood out. Like it was, you couldn't ignore it, you know? And that's what, if there's anything that I learned through the years of when you're making music, it's like, you have to stand out among the pack. Even if you fail, even if you lose sometimes, it's so much better to be like fire than it is to just be ignored. Back to how we first started. I'd rather be on the worst dress list than no list at all. That's right. That's right.

and I'm okay with it. And I get beat up all the time by the guard, the natural guard. Oh, kill me. Let me tell you what other song really irritates me. And I know you guys just lost it with Happy People. I love that song. I was playing in the dance part. That was such a good song.

I think Happy People is going to have its life somehow. Can you sell it to a cartoon? Like a movie? Well, I know. Doesn't it feel like it? Yeah, again, it's so different. People were scared of it. It sounds 70s-ish to.

It has that kind of bell bottom. I hear bell bottoms dancing. I hear people at Woodstock. Listen. And I think that different always scares people until it's not different anymore. I know. And I was so disappointed. And you know what?

When we're in the studio, we're always setting out to be different. And so when we made that record, we could have cut it a different way. And we specifically chased, chased, chased the very things that you're saying. Like, we were listening and referencing to old records and going the, kick should feel like this and it should feel very like trainish you know not train the band but

you know it didn't it's not just one of those records that just jumps out and smacks up side the head is a radio hit I guess but I think it would have been I do too I love it yeah might just keep playing it just piss everybody off

I think it should be like in a commercial I do too I think it should be in a cartoon or something it's so happy and I was like happy songs too Me too, and I think it's an important sentiment for right now. How about this one? It's a very good song. I did, like, so, I know the new song. And when you guys played it, the CMT Awards.

I love the song to begin with, because it's very, it's very musical messaging. I love messagey song. I love songs that you can hear words. Yeah. I'll be like, it's a little risky. I know. A little risky to go and, and, I know.

Throw a ballad-y song out with Jimmy. I know. With. But it's the rule of the band. It's like we just, we have to go with what we think. I love it. You know, we just have to go with our gut. And we have to go with what also we see people reacting to.

And I don't think you can, that's the research. You cannot ignore people lighting up in an audience. Even though people will say, well, you can't. Don't ask your mom. You know, of course. but she's going to like everything you like. But when you see people moved by a song or they're talking about it or you know, you're so good with your fans, you can see what they're talking about,

what they love, what they light up about when you're doing your stuff. So it's the same thing. We can see it too. So we're just going to roll the dice again and see if it works. I love risks. I love failing because that means at least I gave it a big old swim. I know. I do it.

I told Luke Brown one day. we were on tour and I was like, you can't remember not having a hit to you. He didn't remember. I mean, he does remember, but he, you know, he, he's like one of those guys that just, and his fans, they just adore him. And I do too. We do too. But he, it's been a long time.

Some people can just try risky things and radio is going to play it all the time. I don't know for some reason we haven't always been that band, but that's okay. You know why? We do have them. It's huge and radio has been so good to us. Because you have females in the band. Like that's the real reason. Regardless if you want to hear it or not.

Do you think? Absolutely it is. You don't think this industry is like a little like, mm, to females? Yeah, of course I do. Of course I do. And you have females that you. And you guys do an amazing job because I don't know if you call yourself the lead vocalist, but you're the lead vocalist of the group in everyone's mind because you sing more of the lead parts.

So the main voice that you hear is a female. So it's like you think of Lady Annabella. that's a girl band. They're two guys and a girl, but still a girl band. And so that's why, that's all it is. This format's a bunch of haters.

Well, I'm going to say this. A few years ago, I was so discouraged about this subject. And I think there has been a little bit of an improvement. Absolutely. I mean, to see Kelsey,

Marin really busts through and on a Grammy level busts through. That we've made progress. It's better than it was a year ago. And in the year, it'd be better than it is now. You don't want a revolution. You want an evolution. Because a revolution comes and goes.

The worst thing to happen would be if people start throwing females on the radio just to put females on the radio. Yeah, because it's so much better when it has substance. And girls write substance songs. It's just more difficult to play it on the radio. And I just think it's not balanced and it's not true real life when you're not playing women. I don't even want balance because I'm okay if it's in balance the other way. As long as it's good.

That's all I want. Yeah. Like let's not not do things because of something. And I see. I deal with it all the time. But, well, oh, I'm going to ask one more thing. I want to wrap before we wrap up. Like, are you making a lot of money in your clothing line?

Mm-mm. Because I wouldn't think you would early. It's a new business, you know? It's like, it's a brand new baby. Are you in the hole a lot, though? No. Do you have investors that came in? You can call me, be like, hey, you want to come in?

You want to invest on the worst dress list? Those are the kind of less I like to invest in because you get in low. That's right. The stock is low. It's been successful. Tell me about this line. It's been successful. I have a partner and apparel partner in New York that executes the vision.

But I'm not a person to just throw my name on. something. So, like, I'm going to New York early in the morning, and we're brainstorming about a few pieces, and I will hover over fabric for hours and hours and hours tomorrow, and I will, I'm not a sketcher, but I will, like, write out notes tonight, like, all the time about details and what I want to do. I really love fashion, and I always have, and I love, it's an expression of the music in a deeper way to me. and it's part of your personality. I mean, I love that you guys are wearing those jump seats and stuff because it is y'all's personality.

It's your personality, and it is so identifiable. It's like, you know, bam, you're saying something. You know what we're saying is the raging idiots? This is the God's honest truth. Like, that band became, it should never become anything. It really shouldn't have, because I can't sing, and we're not good. And I surround myself. You can sing.

I saw you. I've seen you singing. No, no, no, no, no. So, secondly, people would come out. They would be like, what is this about? Because the last thing I want to do is see an actor get up and try to be an athlete or an actor get up and try to be a singer. I'm not trying to watch Eddie Murphy download his songs.

So I was like, okay, people are always out, all right, prove me, you suck, prove me wrong. I was like, I don't want that. We're going to put on stupid jumpsuits and so you know when we walk out there, we know we're not serious. And you're going to have fun. And that's it. Well, and, I mean, that's why you're selling out places because people are having a big old party. You know, that's the key, too, to. Luke, that guy knows his audience.

You know your audience. He knows his audience. He is so in touch. Church, he knows his audience. He goes out there, and it's like he's, you know, it's like method acting. It's like, not that he's an actor, but you know what I'm saying. He is in tune with what his fans want to hear. No, I get it because I know what my listeners want and I try to give them exactly what they want.

Because I know what they want because I am them. It's the weirdest thing. Sometimes I think we don't. Like, we don't give, we're, sometimes we get lost in our own art of. You're also four people, to be fair, with four different personalities. Very different. And lives and influences. And so, I mean, you're a mom.

You're a mom. Yes. It's like your kid's famous to me. I see them on Instagram. I'm like, your kid, your kid, if I saw him be like, holy crap, look, your kid, you're a kid. kids famous to me because i would see him on instagram i like pictures all the time jimmy's coaching basketball right now we have a double double game tonight how does he does he coach all the time is he he's the coach he's the co-coach of this league of basketball are you guys able to have a somewhat

normal neighborhood where people yeah yeah yeah we i mean you know school friends and elijah doesn't know that this is not normal he thinks getting on the bus and you know is he because of you guys? Like, is he popular because his mom and dad are a little big time? I don't really have a, I don't know.

I really don't know. I do know that I almost teared up at the Predators game when Elijah didn't know it, but he was sitting, he knew he was sitting behind Keith, because he knows Keith from touring,

but he was sitting next to Mac Davis and he didn't know it. And Mac Davis is just one of the greatest songwriters ever. And when the Predator scored, The whole, you know, sweet erupted with joy. And Keith turned around and slapped Elijah five. And then Mac Davis slapped Elijah five.

And I was like, my child does not know that he is, he is literally slapping five with two people that have so much musical influence on not just me as a writer and a singer, but on country music history. I mean, Keith is a future Hall of Famer. Mack just won the icon award We sang in the ghetto He wrote In the ghetto Yeah crazy huh I mean so I got a little I get teary eyed on things like that

Just because I think he Someday he'll understand it Does he want to sing Because his mom and dad do He more likes to dance And he credits Luke all the time That's where the moves come from He's kind of a good dancer

He plays drums He plays a little guitar He sings but he sings I think he's going to be more into rap music Just like his mom He loves Michael Jackson and Bruno Mars He likes things that groove So he's not as into our ballads

As he likes like You know The fast songs or the rocking songs Well I think Let's see Kelsey Marin You are the next We only have one left on the wall I have six pictures on the wall that I keep

I don't put anybody else up there Those are like the people Those are like It's you guys Kelsey And listen I'm working radio I get all this crap all time People send me crap There's black

Here's some crap. I don't keep any of it. I'm so glad we made the wall. Those are like the people that I really enjoy being around. And it's Kelsey, you guys, Marin, Passley, Jansen, and Urban. And Urban's the only one that hasn't come in yet. I haven't let him yet. This was never going to be artists.

It was never going to be. Weber's going to bring songwriters in. And then Marin was the first artist to go, can I please come on? And I was like, no. How long will we keep Marin off? Two months? And then. And then.

And then Dirk's. No. No, then Kelsey. Kelsey and Jake. Jake, Dirk. Has Cam done it? Because you and Cam are friends? No, Cam hasn't done it yet. Yeah, Cam has our friends.

Now has Lindsay done it? Yeah, but it was different. It was when we first... It was before. No. No, it was when we first started dating, huh? Like, we first started dating. And so she came on then.

But yeah, anyway, I'm glad to have you in. Did you have fun? Yes. I hope I didn't bore you. No, no. If you didn't bore me, I would change subjects. Now, listen. You are the genius.

You are the good one. and I do what I do. So would, you know, like, would you be mad if I had a radio show? No. Why would I be mad? No, just like we were talking about. Oh, Lindsay, that thing? No, like Eddie Murphy, like you wouldn't, you know, and you were talking about actors and becoming singers and different.

Like, I like Chuck Wicks. And Chuck's over on the cumulative station. And he's an artist. I think they're making them kind of play a character over there. They's really not. But I like Chuck and I think, you know what I like here? I like everybody should go out and just do the best they can do. Make what you can make.

I mean, I don't want to do a radio show. I think it's too hard. I think it's hard. You don't sleep. I don't know how you sleep. Well, but that's also on me. You just got back from Haiti. I'm on the road every weekend.

Since January until, well, I've been doing stand-up all weekend. But my clock's never getting up. I want to come to a stand-up show. I did want to T-Pack, but you'd be on the road. Well, not as much this summer. Yeah, I don't want we do it in Nashville. Have you ever had Josh Wolf here? Can you again?

Did you ever have a job? Oh, no, no, no. I know Josh, but I never had him here. But you know who played, because I did, you know, here's a funny story for you. So, first of all, it's a Nashville show. I don't like to play national shows. I love my Nashville listeners, but everybody from all the blogs and all the pay, they all want to come out and see if you suck.

It's not see if you're good. They all want to come out and just see if you suck. Because they've been seeing ticket sales. They've been seeing Twitter posts, the full theaters. Let's just see if you suck. That's what everybody's thinking when they come out, right? So I'm like, great. I got to get.

But my natural listeners are amazing. But it's like I don't want to deal with the, to see a few suckers, right? So I'm like, I just want to do it. So Ross Coffering comes out and he comes down. And Ross is a friend. He's been on.

And so Ross comes down and he plays the song that he wrote for Chesney. One of like 35. Yeah, the big one with pink. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Sunshine and the Pink. Yeah. World. Yeah,

he sings that. And Carly Pierce, who I'm taking out with me is my main act. Love her voice. For the rest of the year. She's my support. And so she comes up and plays. Who comes up?

Who does I bring up? Zach Crowell. Okay. So do you know who Zach Crowell is? Yes. He's Sam Hunt. He produced, like, wrote Body Like a Backrow. Yeah.

Okay. I don't know who he is. I had no idea what he was. I don't know that I've met Zach, but I know his name. I know nothing about him. And all this, I'm doing this bit where I don't want to run the bit, but I juggle knives and a hump of face and stuff. right and so I have no idea

he is but I'm humping his face basically he doesn't know he has a blindfold on and everybody's laughing and he goes back down to a seat and I finish showing someone's like oh that was a guy bro, he produced by like a back road and I was like oh so he's coming in like three weeks I owe it to him right to come in but yeah he should come out sometime

he wasn't mad though I don't know because I didn't care maybe it'll be your second fight I did do the show yeah do you ever have any hecklers there like comedy no two reasons one I do theaters.

So the theaters are usually between 1,000 and 2,500, depending on what town I'm in. And they're in seats, and it's very, everybody's, you have your attention. Yeah, right. Theaters are different. Yeah, no, it's different for us too. And so, no, and because tickets aren't super cheap, people are there to really, like, focus and have, and the crowd usually shut people up. Listen, somebody starts yelling something, the crowd will be like, shut, they'll beat them up.

So I don't have to worry about that. My people always have my back. Have you ever had a fight breakout? Yes. I was in, well, Boston, there was a fight break. Boston, they fought before I got in there. But in, in Western Massachusetts, someone stands up and yells, I'm going to shoot you.

And I'm like, oh, I've already had it. I've had like five incidents, right, where I think I'm going to, like, die already. And so I'm like, well, so I just sit down behind the speaker, because I know the promoter is going to not pay me if I leave the stage. Because sometimes promoters may not be the nicest guys. We'd be looking for reasons and not paid me. And so I signed a contract. I was doing my hour set.

And all of a sudden there's a fist fight in the audience. There's another fist fight right below it. And I don't leave the stage and I sit behind it. And I just keep talking. The cops came. It was a whole thing. And then they pulled everybody at the theater. I was like, so anyway.

They pulled everybody out of that theater. They pulled everybody. It was fighting. They took people to jail. It's amazing. But I never left the stage and then I went right back into the act. And everybody was kind of, but. I've stopped show before with a fight.

You have. Oh, yeah. Because I saw a guy like trying to hit a girl and I was like oh no no no no like right in the middle of a song is that before you too no uh like before people started doing that on youtube yeah maybe because i think that would be put up all over the internet yeah you know what happens a fights happen a lot drinking it's the drinking that's what it happens at my show too i mean i would think at an eric church show that it would be like a fight every night or everywhere like you would just which area of the crowd would like to look

and see a fight but and with luke we would see that them get really, like, really having a good time and some of them would get out of hand, you know, but I don't like that. I want you to, like, come and have a good time. For me, because it's quiet and I don't go on until, like, the show starts at, doors open at seven, show starts at eight, my first act goes on and then say Walker opened for me for six months, a Carly will now, and then I'll come on third, right, and do it. By that point, if they're drinking, they've been drinking a lot.

Right. And it's really quiet, so you hear everything. but yeah it's fun I hope you come sometime I would love to come and I'll come to one of your shows

sometimes and I'll lookipede you you before we do this again Here's the thing People don't realize That really You don't get to spend A lot of time

With people in this town Because when you're home You're doing home stuff And then when it's time to do Like people stuff You're on the road Yeah the only time We're like the Monday, Tuesdays

Wednesdays sometimes Yeah I'm glad you came by Well thank you for having me And thanks for letting me do the voice I didn't let you to the voice, first of all. No, there was nothing. I know, but you were gracious about it.

There was nothing even gracious. You had to go to the voice. Didn't Wheeler Walker Jr. do it? Yeah, yeah. Do you know, Ben? I just met him at Liz Rose's album release. He was funny. Yeah.

He was crazy. He's a nice guy. Like, I'm not even going to run it. I think he follows me now on Instagram. I'm so honored. Yeah, he's a nice guy. Well, thank you. I hope this was therapeutic.

It was awesome. And I think, like, you go into Haiti and surprising Amy was the sweetest thing I've seen anybody do in a long time. That was, she was about to, like, she was losing it on the show. I'm a little uncomfortable right now. Okay, talking about it. Because, not because of the subject, but because she's done it like 20 times. And I did it once. And all of a sudden, people are like, Bobby, you're the greatest.

And I'm like, you have no idea. Like, Amy does all the time. I know, but she's, you're her friend. That's like a best friend going, hey, I wanted to go meet your kids. Yeah, that's a best friend thing Like we're not radio co-hosts I can tell your best friends Like that's like my

Yeah, you wouldn't do it if you I mean You think Mike Dia can't You crap out of him? I'm just kidding Mike Dela like my dude They're like my dude Like

Like years and years and years and years And years ago That whole show is my team From they're all friends None of them are radio people Thankfully Lunchbox No lunchbox for 13 years

Then I'm a bar So they were all on the Austin show The talk show Some of them were Yeah Amy and Launchbox were Ray was an intern. Morgan, my executive producer, I was an intern. Mike was an intern. Does Ray really have bed bug bites?

Yes. I don't know what he is on. I don't ask that guy questions. I saw the Instagram today. Yeah, it's disgusting. Well, we're going to go. I appreciate you talking to us. Episode, what's this, Mike? 66. 66. I feel like I've learned a lot. Thank you for the trip down memory lane. I had really right. I mean, that Karen Lee, man. There's really something to that. You should re-explore that maybe.

All right. We're going to go. Thank you very much. Bye. Bye. Bye, Roddy. The Disneyland resort is everything. We came to play the Calli Way.

It felt like I was in the round-up game with Woody and Pixar pier. Have you been holding out on us? No, just showing you where the real Hollywood stars are. Like Tiana's Bayou Adventure. Oh, there's jazz, right? And a drop. You'll see. Grab a Mickey pretzel on the way.

Girl, you'll read in my mind. We're almost there. Disney California Adventure Park and Disneyland Park. We came to play. Both part tickets and reservations requires subject to restrictions change and cancellation without notice. Visit Disneyland.com for details. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

On the Ceno Show podcast, each episode invites you into a raw, unfiltered conversations about recovery, resilience, and redemption. On a recent episode, I sit down with actor, cultural icon Danny Trail to talk about addiction, transformation, and the power of second chances. The entire season two is now available to bench, featuring powerful conversation with the guests like Tiffany Addis. Johnny Knoxville and more. I'm an alcoholic. And without this group, I'm going to die. Luther Nisino's show on the IHare Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. On paper, the three hosts of the Nick Dick & Poll show are geniuses.

We can explain how AI works, data centers, but there are certain things that we don't necessarily understand. Better version of Play Stupid Games win Stupid Prizes. Yes. Which, by the way, wasn't Taylor Swift, who said that for the first. time. I actually, I thought it was. I got that wrong. But hey, no one's perfect. We're pretty close, though. Listen to the Nick, Dick, and Paul show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.