The Bobby Bones Show - BOBBYCAST #685 - Relationship Coach Sabrina Zohar on What Everyone Gets Wrong About Love, Almost Being Kidnapped at 7 & Her Failed Shark Tank Experience!

Episode Date: October 13, 2026

Relationship coach, author, and podcast host Sabrina Zohar joins Bobby to talk about what people get wrong about dating, love, and relationships. She breaks down the biggest dating red flags, why people sabotage healthy relationships, and how our childhood experiences shape the way we connect with others. Bobby also opens up about his own attachment style, past relationship struggles, and how meeting his wife changed his perspective on love.Sabrina shares the terrifying story of nearly being kidnapped at seven years old, her complicated relationship with her father, and how getting sent home from Shark Tank eventually led her down an unexpected career path. Plus, she opens up about her life-changing experience with ketamine therapy, the lessons behind her book Why Am I Like This?, and why understanding yourself might be the most important part of finding the right relationship! Watch The BobbyCast on Netflix! Follow on Instagram: @TheBobbyCast Follow on TikTok: @TheBobbyCastSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to free therapy with Ben and Kevin on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. My girlfriend came over and she was like, dude, you talk a lot about dating in like all the content you create. And I just started making TikToks. And then that blew up and I started my podcast and then I got certified. So now I have three certifications in dating and really. Relationships, intimacy, nervous system, and part-tork. Hey, guys, Bobby here. I'm going to talk with Sabrina Zohar.

She's a dating and relationship coach and host of the podcast, the Sabrina Zohar Show. And now she's got a new book called Why Am I Like This? All about breaking patterns and figuring out why we do the things we do. So we'll talk attachment styles and breaking toxic cycles and childhood wounds and her story. And I think you're going to like this. Here she is, Sabrina Zohar. And all the things that you get asked by people or content that you make, what is the most common relationship question that so many people get wrong? And you know that because you keep getting asked it by people over and over again.

So there's a few, but the one that kind of sticks out is less about a specific situation. And it actually is the saddest part for me. It's, what do I do? And the reason I say that that makes me sad is because people are asking somebody on the internet a stranger to tell them what to do with their life instead of, trusting that intrinsically you know what it is that you need to do. Outside of that, I think the biggest thing that I see in dating right now is people have this aversion to rejection. They are so terrified of someone not liking them, someone thinking that they're too much. So if I'm too much, go find less. Like if the way that I present myself doesn't work for you, then you're not somebody

that I can feel safer on being authentically myself. And I think a lot of people are treating relationships like transactions right now. We're so scared of I'm never going to find another person. that people are putting people on a pedestal they never asked to be on and holding on to people for months, if not years beyond that. And 99.9% of the time, it's because of the story that they've created not actually about the person. Because, like, who is this person? You went on three dates with them and it's been six months and you can't, you still can't function. That's more just regulation because you don't feel safe.

That is nothing to do with the person. And so I think that's really what I see is a lot of people not having an aversion to feeling like any kind of discomfort. So they rather stay intellectual of like, no, no, no, no, you just tell me why they don't want to be with me because they don't make the pain go away. Now that just prolongs the inevitable because you actually have to sit with the feeling that like you feel dismissed. You don't feel prioritized or you don't feel like this person was choosing you. And that's okay.

But face that shit and start to deal with that because that tell you'll actually find the right partner for you. Do you get people asking if they're aging out? All the time. All the time. What's a common age that people think they're aging out? You don't have sad? I've had 23-year-olds ask me if it's too late for them. Is that because of where they grow up?

society, right? Because I think we have the pendulum swung now like tradwives are back and all of a sudden it's like cool to be like I want to be taking. I want to be a kept woman. I'm like, wait, what? This is like the freest we've ever been. Why are we going backwards? And so I think a lot of people think if I don't meet them young, I'm never going to. Then you get into the late 20s, that's when like the fear and the panic of like, especially if you want children, which I understand. I hold so much space for that. Then once you get into the 30s, it's like, no, there's no one left. It's either of single parents or I'm going to be alone forever. Beyond that. that 40s, 50, 60s becomes like, woe is me. There's no one out there. And I think a lot of people don't realize like you exist. Someone else amazing exists. You may just not have met them yet. And the biggest thing is the person that's right for you is probably going to be in a package you didn't expect. Like when you met your wife, now she's your wife? She is. Was she somebody that you were like, oh my God, this is what I've been waiting for all my life? Like, what was that experience like for you when you met her? I didn't meet people and think that I would date or marry them.

And I definitely wasn't woe was me. I just accepted that I don't think there is anyone that can break me from my poor habits. And I met her and she didn't break me from it immediately. She just didn't care. And so I can remember she hates them when I tell the story. So she is from Oklahoma. and my PR person, not my, but ABCs because I did American Idol for four years and did Dancing with the Stars. And that same person that was with me, she was from Oklahoma and she knew my wife back in Oklahoma.

And so I met my wife through her in the most normal L.A. meeting ever of all my meetings. And so because she moved out, she went back to grad school. And so I met her. And then she just did not care. And I was like, man, she doesn't care at all, which of course, if I'm being pushed away, then I'm more interested. And then once she was interested in me, I was like, why are you interested in me? She was like, what do you mean? I said, yeah, are you just using me?

Or like, because I have some fame and success. She's like, I live in L.A. If you want to see my DMs, if I wanted somebody closer to that fame and success, I can get them. Feel that? And I was like, dang. Humbolded you. Yeah. Yeah.

And so my wife was the one that made me challenge myself to breaking those habits, but I never expected it to be that. Fair. So I was not looking. And it wasn't, I don't believe, just stop looking and you'll find it. I just had prioritized putting my time in other places. I think that's why I hate the saying it'll happen when you least expected. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, you still have to put effort.

You still have to, like, meet people. It'll happen when you release control of the outcome. Because like when I made my partner, we met on Hinge, my dog had just passed away. I was not in a place. He had lost his sister earlier in the year. I lost my dog. We were both coming from this grief place. I was down visiting my sister looking.

for apartments and I was like, I'll get laid, right? Like, I meet this guy. He's cute. We went on a date. We went at hiking. We went back. We hooked up like five times. I went out to dinner and I was like, I'm never going to see this guy again. This is great. This is a great night for me. And he like, right before we, at dinner, he was like, oh, you know, did you have fun? And I just stopped him. And I was like, I'm going to spare you the time. I had a really great night. I don't normally do casual. I don't do hookups. I don't do friends with benefits. I was like, honestly, I hadn't been late in months. Tonight I really needed that. But if you're going to call me again, that's because we're going to build something. If not, please don't waste my fucking time. And he was like, okay. And like the next day,

he texts me and he was like, can I, like, I'm still smiling from last night. Can I see you? And I remember being like, okay. Like, sure. And if you ask him why, and people have asked him, he's like, because she was more afraid of losing herself than she was afraid of me, of losing me. And to me, that's a really powerful place of like, I want you in my life, but I don't need you in my life. And that feels where you're like, oh, okay, so like this, we could just connect. And if we actually have a connection. We can grow that and it feels safe because it feels really overwhelming when you meet someone and you're like, oh shit, you're only okay if I call you or like you're not good if I don't text you for a day. That's a very different dynamic. And so I think when you release control to the outcome

because on paper in my old anxious days and his avoidance, we would never have worked, ever, ever, ever. But that's why proximity and timing matter not more than love, but they will be the reason a relationship works out. because if you had met your wife maybe 10 years prior and you were in a totally different place in your life. Well, she'd have been 11, but yeah. No, I'm kidding. She was not that young, but she is younger. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's, we'll talk about that later. I do have age gaps videos. But if you had met, you know, five years prior, even a year, right, where you're in a different place, your band with your capacity is not there to receive somebody. It doesn't matter how much you love them or think they're amazing. You're not ready to receive that. And so I had to learn that lesson the hard way. But Ryan on paper, if you looked at all them and I dated, he was very. He was very. very different. And that was a good thing. It's because it's what I needed versus what I necessarily thought I wanted. And so I think to me, that's why I say it comes in a different package. It's because like you gave it and you're like, you know, listen, if I don't ever meet

anyone, I'm okay. I love my life and I'm living life for me. That's probably when you'll meet somebody. Can you take the pressure off? Yeah, I didn't feel any pressure and she was wildly independent and did not care. And I thought that's pretty cool. Right. Yeah. I had a joke I would doing my stand-up for a long time where I would say, you know, my wife is extremely smart, smarter than I am, funnier than I am. I feel lucky because she never would have dated me when I was in high school, and I said, I'm lucky because she was five. And you're like, yeah, mm-hmm. Yeah. So you don't live here. No. What do you live? L.A. What are you doing here? Seeing you. But not just seeing me. No, I had one other

recording. Man, you could have lied. That would have been awesome if you had a lie. I came just for you. Yeah, so this is a new book. Why am I like this? Do you like it? I love it. Do you feel good about your stuff when you're done with it? Oh, fuck yeah. Good.

Yeah. I don't. So that's refreshing to hear that someone enjoys their work. I would always like when I would see my artist friends have their music. They'd create an album and they'd record it and they'd like it after. And I'd be blown away. Like, how do you like the stuff that you do? Because I hate the stuff that I do.

Trust me. Whenever I create out things, I'm like, I'm terrible. My partner's like, oh, my God, your core beliefs. I'm like, yeah, no, that's why I wrote about it. What's hard is seeing other people's opinions. That's been the hard thing of people that just like don't like you for who you are. And then they have no problem telling you that. But I'm really proud of what I made.

So it's also very much me. It's like all my shitty childhood trauma. In fact, I almost got kidnapped as a kid. Like it's all this amalgamation of like my sleeping my way through Manhattan to teach other people not to do that. Interesting. There's like three places I would go there. I'd first like to say the good thing about writing a book is that, people can't give you instant feedback.

It's not like a song or an Instagram post or tweet because they have to read it. It takes a while. And most of the time, they won't even do that. But congratulations. It's super cool. When you finish this thing and you get it out, I know it's coming out October 13th. Is that right? Really, congratulations.

Thank you. How long ago did you start this? Two and a half years ago. And, okay, talk about the kidnapping thing first because I don't know about that. Yeah. So when I was eight years old, my sister had a bike that she took from her friend. house, like just, like, it was an adult bike. And so clearly too big for me. And growing up, like, I grew up in South Florida. And so there was the perception of safety being in, like,

a gated community. And so my mom instilled the living fear of God in me of like, like, don't trust strangers, don't ever, like be alone, like just always run. And I snuck out in the morning. It was like 7 a.m. And I was like, oh, I'm going to go ride this bike. Like, I really, really want to, like, go out and have some fun. And, like, everyone was asleep. And I was just, like, cruising. And I remember for, like, three minutes just feeling so alive. And just like, going in circles and being like, oh, I got this. And all of a sudden, in the corner of my eye, it's like, the house is here. I'm like, good, good separation from it. So like it would take me a minute to like get back. I just started biking and I look over and I see this like old white car with these

two massive dudes in it. Like something just didn't feel right. It felt very sinister. And I was like, I've never seen this car before. We were in a cul-de-sacs. You kind of know like who's coming in and out of your place. And I was like, hmm, this is not right. And so I started biking a little faster and had to cut through the neighbor's yard to get back to mine. And I started seeing him speed up. And I was like, oh, this isn't good. And I'm like racing, racing, they speed up all the way. They stop in front of the house. And I'm like coming into the house. And the guy just gets out. And he's like six, five long brown hair, like this big dude. And he barrels towards me. Just like walking right for me. And I kick off the bike. My foot got stuck. And so I like couldn't get it off. And I kicked it,

which propelled him back and like caught me a second. And as I go to reach a little, and I go to reach the door. He comes for me. I slam the door shut and like lock it and I look out the window and I see him just go, fuck. And he bolts it back into the car and they drive off. And I was so shaken. And the worst part was when I went to my parents to tell them, my mom said that was a dream and tell me to go back to bed. And so for 25 years, 26 years, I thought I dreamt it. And when I was writing this, I was kind of going back of like, where did I learn this distrust from people and like to not trust myself and I was casually talking to my sister and I was like, do you, did I like ever have this? And she's like, oh yeah, I remember. Like you took the bike and you came in and mom told you

were dreaming and that you almost got taken. And I was like, it was the moment where I was like, holy shit, this actually happened. She validated that it really did happen. Yeah, because I genuinely believed I made it up because for so long I was like it was a dream, but I vividly remember it. Like every detail. I remember the car. I remember what he was like, the outfit. I just remember all of it. It was seared into my head. And that moment was that of, like you can't trust yourself if the people around you are also telling you that what you're seeing is not the reality. Do you think your mom really thought it was a dream? I think my mom, my dad, she was, my mom was terrified of my dad. And so I think he woke up and he was annoyed that I

woke them up. And I think for her, she was like, just go back to bed. Like, it's fine. When I talk to her now, she doesn't even, like, she doesn't understand how she wasn't there for me. Because all of my life, like, stranger danger come to me. If anybody ever does anything, like, I'm your mother. I'll take care of you. But she wasn't there. And so that instilled so much within me. And then now she apologizes profusely because she's like, you know, if I were in my right mind, I would have protected you.

What scares me is to think of like, did they go and do this to somebody else? Yeah. How'd that bad news car get in the gated community? Great question. There was some punks that worked at the front gate. And like they would just kind of let people in without actually checking. And I think they just, or it was because it means an opportunity, right? If these guys were just driving around and I just so happened to be the only kid,

there was no one out because it was 7 a.m. on a Saturday morning. There's nobody out. It could have just been the perfect storm. When I moved here, I'd had some security issues in Austin where I lived. I got jumped and had my house broken into. And a lot of things once my career started to take off. But I moved here and I moved into a gated community because my company was like, hey, you need to live a little more protected because it was pretty vulnerable. And I lived there for about six months and I would wake up at like 3.30 in the morning

because I'd go do my morning show. and I look, there's cops everywhere. And I hear a helicopter. And a guy probably eight houses down had murdered his wife in the gated community. Shit. Yeah. And literally then we were in walls. A lot of good that did anybody.

And then he went and hid in the woods for a good 24 hours. But they wouldn't let anybody out of their house because they were searching for that guy. They ended up finding him he was like hidden like underneath or beside a tree or something. But he left his baby, didn't kill it, but killed the one. life. It's the perception of safety, right? We think that, or you're like, oh, it's it. There's a gate. There's a community. That doesn't mean that bad things can happen. And my mom always taught me. She's like, do you think bad people always look bad? Like, they look totally normal. They look like the rest of us. They don't always come in the creepy van with the serial killer glasses.

And that was, I mean, it's interesting because for so long, at least for me, I, you know, trust your gut. We say that all the time. And you're like, okay, but how can I trust my gut if when I actually saved my own life, nobody was there to validate that. And so it took a lot of work for me to accept it, to be okay with it, and to forgive the people that were there for not protecting me in the ways that I needed. I was talking to somebody on my team that consumed a lot of your content. And she was talking about some of your videos. She needs your help. I'm here.

Yeah, I know. I know, I know. And we were talking about it. And so I had an understanding of what I thought your book was. But are those stories in the book like that? So then what was the purpose of the book? The book essentially is because for so many of us, we ask why am I like this, and we think that there's this one big T. But what we don't realize is like death by a thousand paper cuts.

Because that one instance, the reason I shared it is because that one situation taught me not to trust myself, taught me to doubt, taught me to second guess. And so if I don't actually acknowledge where I learned this from and the situations that created that, then I'm just kidding myself going through life, being like, oh, it's because I had a shitty boyfriend in high school. or it's like go deeper, go further. Someone taught you this. But the reality is like for me, this book, it's not a dating book. It's not a relationship book. It's a life book. It's about you coming home to yourself because we learned all of this somewhere.

But it's not about shame or blame. It's about holding two conflicting thoughts that like you can love your parents and think they are the best, but they were limited and maybe just didn't teach you what you needed or attuned to your needs in the way that you did need. But if we don't address that, you're just gaslighting yourself, you're kidding yourself, you're going in circles. and I think so many people are stuck, especially in dating and relationships, because they want to look for something that's a direct correlation without understanding that, like, we're some of all of our parts. And you have to really start to get curious about what are the patterns that you're starting to see and where did you learn this from and how old do you feel?

Because those are going to be the things that unlock for you to be like, oh, that's why I date these types of people. That's why I keep doing these types of things because I learned that from somewhere. So you live in Florida. You moved to New York when? I lived in Florida. I moved to New York when I was 19. It just turned 19. Why?

We had always gone to New York. My dad had businesses. My dad started all the porn theaters in Midtown in the 80s. Really? Yeah. And he had a gay club in New York. And so we were there all the time every month. So were people naked in your house then?

Because that feels like a pretty free house. That's the irony. It was very conflicting. My dad was very free and then my mom was a super prude and was like, don't ever touch a boy. Don't let anybody be next to you. So it was very polarizing information. My dad did it more so like, that's where the money was. And so he was like, all right, I'll trail that.

How do you get in that business, though? Great question. To this day, I don't really know. It was part of him. He said when he came into the States, like, that was what happened in the 70s and 80s, and he was like, I had the opportunity. I had the means, and I opened it. And he had, I think, like, eight or nine in Midtown.

Did you make good money doing that? If you lived in a gated community, I would assume. He said they were making so much money, they didn't know what to do with it. But that's before Giuliani. Giuliani comes in. Because he's definitely cleaned it up. Yeah, so then that's. Ah, that Giuliani.

To this day, if you talk to my dad, he's like, fuck that guy. And he just, he ruined it. But, like, at the same time, thank you. Like, you cleaned up New York. But I grew up with a very free, like, he had the gay club, and there was all the, like, they had drag queens. And so I would go and hang out with the girls and do their makeup and the outfits, but it was really hard. It was, like, losing so many of them because of AIDS. And in that time, every time I'd go to New York, he would take us on a trip.

I'd go and be like, where's Angel? And he was like, oh, I'm so sorry. like you're not going to see her again. And I couldn't, at nine, 10 years old, like comprehend what that meant. But I was opening my eyes. And so I knew I loved New York. My sister moved to New York.

My brother moved to New York. And so for me, it was like, okay, I'm going to New York. Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor. The music you love. Your favorite radio stations. Everywhere you go. The podcasts, everyone's talking about. All in one place.

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podcast. And each week, we bring in you exclusive looks inside music, everything happening inside the culture. Some of the best conversations were the biggest names in the game. You had a little bit more pressure to be good. And they didn't care if you was a girl. Like, you wasn't getting no points because you were the girl. If you're not trash, you better be not just good.

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And of course, the fans love it. But 30 years ago, when the league first started, It was a different story. I remember sitting with a couple of male writers all whining about, oh, what are they going to do if they break a nail? No one's going to show up. But from the very beginning, there were two teams that captured everyone's attention. The comments were to real deal.

I mean, come on. The Liberty never gave up. They never stopped fighting. I knew that rivalry was going to be amazing from the beginning. I'm Kerry Champion, and this is biggest rivalries of all time, season two. The New York Liberty versus the Houston. comments, the very first rivalry of the WNBA. They picked us to finish last, and they picked them to finish first.

That's all you need to know. I remember looking around thinking, this is going to change things. Basketball was going to have this fundamental impact on the way people viewed women athletes. Listen to biggest rivalries of all time on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Is there bad blood between you and the comments as you guys meet again in the champion? Oh, we're coming back to win. We get it. You have a lot of podcasts to choose from. So many. Too many.

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Listen to. Listen if you want to. I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back on the Bobbycast. Dude, were the theaters there when you moved up there? No, they were gone. They were gone. By the time they moved down to Florida to have me, everything was closed.

So 1990, when they had me, he was done and he was like, I don't want to do this anymore. When did you learn what he did? Pretty early on. So he had the club up until I was 25. So the theaters were closed by the time I was, like my siblings, when they were born, and they were worn in Jersey. He had the theaters then. By the time I was in, those had been closed, and then he just had the club and he would go to New York all the time for it. And then he always, my dad was an entrepreneur. He always opened this and this and this and this.

But he also cheated on my mom the entire marriage and wasn't really there for us. Are you still, are they both alive? Both of them are my life? Are you still close to them? Are they together? No. Thank God not. I don't talk to my dad. So this book is the kind of final nail in the coffin for that. Why the final nail? He's narcissistic. like a pretty classic textbook. And he said, I made him look bad. And so...

Oh, because he read what you wrote about him. No, no, no. He will never do that. People told him. And so his girlfriend saw me on another podcast that I said he hit us. And when she told him, he said that I made him sound bad. And I owe him an apology. But did he ever say, no, I didn't hit them?

First he said I didn't. And then he goes, okay, so, well, but I wasn't an alcoholic when I did it. And I was like, that doesn't make it better. I was like, I don't know it's worse. he was just very like the belt all the time. Like he would always, that's how he would threaten us or like he would just, he just didn't have any emotional control. And to him, he thought that's discipline.

And then now you learn that's abuse. Was he taught that was discipline? And that's what he just rolled down. Not that that's an excuse. Yes, and. Like his mom was pretty harsh on him. He was the oldest of siblings. Can I understand where it comes from?

Yes. Do I understand to this day still not even being like, hey, I'm sorry? Or I never meant to hurt you like that. that's where I think he loses me. Because my mom is, she'll apologize for apologizing. And like all she wants to do is make amends. For him, it's very like, I'm your father. You were a bad kid.

You earned it. You deserved it. And it's like, okay. Do you think you guys will have a relationship ever? I don't think so. But you don't know so. Are you open to it? My crystal ball is in the shop, so I can't give you an exact answer.

But I'm, I will only be open to it if he makes an amends. Like if he actually owns up and says, you're right, I did do this. and I should not have acted like that. I'm down to have a conversation. But right now as it stands, I owe him the apology. And I don't think that that's space for reconciliation. He feels like you owe him the apology. When I wrote my last book, I had written the whole thing and I felt like it was only fine.

I don't know if you've heard, but I hate my work, everything I do, I hate it all. But I wrote this book and it was like, eh, it's okay. Kind of felt like at parts, it was a bit hypocritical. And then I actually wrote the first chapter last because my real dad left when I was five years old. and I went and tracked him down and met him in the first chapter of my book. And so I went and lied about why I was back in Arkansas because it really was just to meet him. And that was the whole first chapter was me kind of pursuing something that I was afraid of.

And then the closure of the chapter was everything's fine. We're not friends. We're not close, but we did it. And I don't think we'll ever have any sort of reconciliation. but I'm fine. But also he's not like a villain to me. I think I said that he's not like a Bain or the Joker anymore because I think I had that built in my head.

But I didn't have a relationship. You actually had a relationship with your dad. That was what was the hardest part. We were the closest because my brother's the oldest than my sister than me. And my brother was the fuck up. Like he was the one that got arrested. He got sent away. It was like he was the problem child if you look at it in that sense.

But like he was just a kid. Like he was 16. Then my sister followed his suit and just was like, I hate this family. I'm out. and then there was me. And so my dad and I were close. And then one day, once he started really, like, going out with the other women. Like, he brought that around us. Like, I would have to go to these women's house. I would watch him go into the bedroom with them. But then he would say, we're just

friends. Don't tell your mom. And so it was this weird dynamic of being like, I don't understand what's happening. But like, I guess I can't talk to anybody about it. And then when my parents divorced, he disowned us multiple times. And like, over the years, like, if you just say no to him, like he told me I had to go to a wedding with him. And I was like, oh, I'm so sorry. I can't. That was it. That was it. How dare you say no? And so just as you get older, you're like, I don't really want to deal with this. I'm not saying people should be estranged from their families. It's not the answer. But the point of having repair is that you need to take accountability. Otherwise, you're not going to be able to have repair. And so if I'm dealing with somebody who won't take accountability and

ownership, then what are we doing? How's your mom feel about that? She understands it. My mom is my best friend. And she knows who I'm dealing with. And I don't think he's a bad person. I would never villainize him, but I also just don't think that's somebody I really want in my life right now, if I can't be authentic. Do you think your dad's a big reason you are like you are? For sure. I wouldn't be here if I wasn't for that. What do you mean?

The parts of me that I love, or sometimes also the parts of me that I hate, right? Like, I have this incredible work ethic. Why? Because all of my life, it was give and take with money. So that created this, like, I have to go out and kill what I eat. So without him, I don't know where I'd be. I don't even try to pretend I would, but I do know that if I had a dad that actually loved me for who I was and like celebrated me and didn't try to make it as if like I'm too much but not enough, who knows, right? Maybe I would just be more confident in myself in different areas of life. Maybe I would be able to show up differently. Like to this day, I've got all of the success and all of these things. I get one comment of people hating how I speak or talking shit about me. I'm crying for three hours because it's that voice that comes right back being like you're not good enough. I knew you're going to if you're an idiot, you're a fuck up. You're so. stupid. What would life be like without that? Do you do attachment styles? No, of course. You do?

Oh, yeah. What are you? Anxious. What about you? Well, now or insecure? I guess mine would be with who. Okay. What's the pattern? My wife has shifted my patterns. I was 39 when I met her. I never thought I would get married. And so I kind of given up on not life. I just thought I'm not going to meet anybody that I think I don't feel like I felt like I could be loved. And so she shifted that. You tell me what kind of, you tell me what my style is. I'll tell you. I'll say tell me the behavior. Yeah, I'll tell you the behavior. I never had like a real, like a real relationship. I never said I love you to anybody in my whole life. So my mom died in her 40s. She was a drug addict.

And my grandma adopted me and didn't know my dad. And so I was, I worked extremely hard, but mine was out of insecurity and fear. And I never got in a relationship. I had small times where I would, you know, have a girlfriend or whatever, but nothing serious. I never told anybody I love them. And then my wife came along and she was the first and the only person I've ever told that to. Now I say it all the time. I walk down the street.

You, love you. My baby all the time. I'm not true. So, yeah, I just didn't expect it, and now I'm here. I think I was avoidant. I'm already giving you some. I was about to say, I'm like, based on the, like, what happened when people would get close, were you trying to remove yourself, which you get comfortable?

I would sabotage things. Can I reframe that, actually? So, sabotage, when we think about, like, self-sabotage, would imply that, like, when we think about the actual word that you're doing that to intentionally hurt yourself, but really it's more so protection, because you learned somewhere that that was a protective mechanism, that if you shut down, if you didn't communicate, because if you knew that in your environment, you didn't have people that were going to attune to you,

it's actually a protector. So I look at it as self-protection as opposed to self-sabotage. It's maladaptive, but nonetheless, you're not doing that to hurt yourself intentionally. I think I'm secure avoidant and was for a long time, and I still probably am in a lot of areas, just not with her all the time. Sometimes it comes back, and you can feel it.

I can feel it. Of course, because you're human. And it just, it feels very familiar. also a little bit gross and a little bit comfortable at the same time because I did it my whole life. My partner is more avoidant and I'm the more anxious because for me it was very like outwards. Like show me love. Please don't leave me. Like I need you to validate me. And he's the type that's like 10 to 15 business days. Like leave me alone. I don't want to talk. Like bye. And so I can understand your dynamic because very similarly now he's like super expressive and open.

Still has the avoidance because like those exos, there's parts of you. Are you familiar with IFS? No. Is that a government agency that invests? Investigate something. Might as well be. Internal family systems. So it was a type of therapy. And so Dick Schwarz created this. And so did you see the movie Inside Out?

Yes. That's parts work. Great. Love that movie. And so really what that shows us is like you have all these different parts, right? There's however old you are, that's how many bobbies there are. For me, there's 36 years of Sabrina's. And so the avoidant part doesn't ever go away.

That is a protector part. That is somebody that came out because there was the little boy that wanted love, that wanted to be cared for, that wanted to be like everything that's natural that should be given to a child that's unconditional. He didn't get all those aspects. Or maybe he got bits and bobs of them. So he learned, you know what, this is too painful. Get rid of it. Let's create this protector part of like, I don't need it. Fine. It's fine. I'll shut down. I'll go inwards. I don't need any of this. I can only rely on myself. And so those parts don't ever just go away, but we learn how to live with them so that they don't

take over. And have awareness of them, yeah. I think for me, I've been in a lot of therapy. I have a really good amount of awareness now because again I can feel it when the old comes creeping back in I think mine too was I felt like everybody would leave because everybody left or died but that's leaving right and as a kid who's moving around and living with different people and being adopted and you just are like well everybody's eventually

going to piece out anyway so I'm going to go ahead and build these walls and only I'm in these walls and these walls will only protect me doesn't it make so much sense though Oh, completely. Right? Like, when we think about that, you're like, how smart and brilliant that child was to create that because he did technically keep you safe. But the problem is that now that we're adults, we're using this old, that's why I call it the bullshit blueprint.

We're using this old mechanism in these coping mechanisms that, first of all, zero to 18 months, you're nonverbal. So for 18-ish months, right, depending on the child, you're just picking up facial expressions, intonation, people are here, they're not, is as safe, is it not? All of these different variables. The problem is that then we bring that into our adult life. And so now you're trying to have adult relationships with a map with half the streets are missing, and you're trying to figure out your way home. And oftentimes home for a lot of us wasn't safe. And so we will always default to what's familiar because your brain is designed to keep you safe, not to help you grow. That's just how we are wired as humans.

And so it makes so much sense that we would do that. And I think a lot of people they see it as, which is probably not you because you've been through so much therapy and you've done so much work. But I think a lot of people look at it as like, I want to get rid of it. And it's like, good luck. You've got to learn how to live with it. How to listen to it, how to be there, how to support that version of you. And sometimes it sounds a little psycho when you're like, you're talking to yourself. Yeah, I am.

But if you don't be the adult that you didn't get to have at that version, then that's just going to keep coming back over and over because it's trying to keep you safe. What would your partner say about you as someone he's in a relationship with? I just met him, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'll speak for him. I think he would say he admires my strength, though he knows I'm really anxious. I still have my core beliefs.

I still have my insecurities because I'm a human. But I do think he'd be really fucking proud of how far I've come because I've taken some shit, right? We've all had our stuff. We all have a big T's and little T traumas, but I won't let that define me anymore, but I still have so much more work to do, and I don't think that's a bad thing.

Do you talk about attachment styles in your book? Yeah. In what capacity? I had to do a level set, right? Because people that are reading the book might have no idea what they are. And so, like, if you're very advanced, in therapy, you're going to read that and be like, okay, I understand that. I know what

fight, flight, freeze, and fawn is. I know what the different attachment styles are. But the way that what I did was I kind of created this web of like, okay, where did you learn this? How old do you feel? What's coming up for you? And then how do you actually dismantle this? And so I bring it along the journey of like your attachment style is not to, first of all, it's not to villainize other people. So many people on the internet love to do the like, my avoidant. It's like they're not a fucking Furby. Like this is a human being with a lived experience that doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to have ownership over them with the way that you talk. And too many people are using attachment styles to understand everyone else besides themselves.

Or I was like, get out of jail free card. Well, it's because I'm anxious. Yeah. And it's like, okay. And what are you doing with that? And so for me, it's like, it's knowledge is power. But at the same time, if you just keep trying to intellectualize, you're not actually feeling. And then we're defeating the purpose.

So I use it as like, okay, here you understand it now. Let's move on from it. And I feel like so much of the content that I see, especially on text, talk is keeping us stuck in like my dismissive avoidant does this and they do this and they do this and it's like we're treating people as if they're caricatures and not as like humans with complex emotions and feelings and so I try to dismantle that so that people will stop seeing it through black and white and start to understand that humans are shades of gray. How do you get to be a dating coach or relationship coach?

What's the official term? What would you like to be called? Dating and relationship coach? What do you write at the doctor when they go profession? Self. I just am like self-employed. Oh, that's so much easier than what I was trying to figure out. Yeah, that's good.

I'm just like me. Honestly, it started, so I had a clothing line prior to this. I went to school for fashion. Like, I minored in psychology. Like, it took tons of courses, but I knew I never wanted to get licensed because I have a mouth on me. And I was like, I was not going to work. And I was supposed to be in Shark Tank. And I was on set.

And like, this is it. 2022, like Zohar, you're up next. Like, you ready? And then they send me. For the clothing line. That's the clothing line. Okay. And then they sent me home.

And I hit my rock bottom. and I wanted to take my life that night, and it was just like a really, really bad time. And a guy that I had one date with called me and talked me off the ledge. Never saw him again. But it was just a moment where everything aligned of like, wait a minute, people are in your life for a reason.

It doesn't mean that they have to be in there forever. And so then my girlfriend came over, and she was like, dude, you talk a lot about dating in all of the content you create. And I was helping already kind of like coaching people with business stuff. I kind of bootstrap. And she was like, I think you should create content on it.

And I just started making TikToks. and then that blew up and I started my podcast and then I got certified. So now I have three certifications in dating and relationships, intimacy, nervous system, and parts work. Did you have a single video that popped so hard that one gave you confidence and two kind of launched what you were doing? Yeah. What were you doing in the video? Ron, if someone says one of these three things. And it was, all my exes are crazy because that person doesn't take accountability and ownership.

And then I can't remember what the other two were. But that was the first. I got like six million plays. And I was like, oh, this can actually be something. The irony is I met my partner two months after I started creating content. So I wasn't anybody. Like I didn't have a name. It's not like I was anything.

And he always told me like, just promised me you won't say my name. And I was like, okay, so I called him tech guy. And so that just became a thing. And then as we start, now he works with me in my company. So cats out of the bag. His name is Ryan. But now we've just kind of progressed in that relationship talk off too. The Bobbycast.

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Or the food we just say, that is surprisingly delicious. Or we'll talk about the Med Gala and the looks that they were. Are they awesome? Are they trendy? Come find out. Because our opinion matters. And so does yours. And this is a place where all of our minds can come together and connect. So what are you waiting for? Come connect with us. Listen to out of character from Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Pods, or wherever you get your podcasts. We get it. You have a lot of podcasts to choose from. So many. Too many. But low key, this is not your typical podcast. We want you to listen if you want to. We won't make you. That's why it's called. Listen. if you want to, and here's why you'll want to.

We'll be your BFFs to tell you what to watch. We'll tell you who you need to care about when it comes to celebrity stuff. Sometimes we'll just talk about random things and you'll actually give a shh. Listen to, listen if you want to on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The WNBA playoffs are about to begin. The talent is insane and the personalities are giving main character energy. And of course, the fans love it. But 30 years ago, when the league first started, it was a different story.

I remember sitting with a couple of male writers all whining about, oh, what are they going to do if they break a nail? No one's going to show up. But from the very beginning, there were two teams that captured everyone's attention. The comments were to real deal. I mean, come on. The Liberty never gave up. They never stopped fighting.

I knew that rivalry was going to be amazing from the beginning. I'm Kerry Champion, and this is biggest rivalries of all time. Season 2, the New York Liberty versus the Houston Commons, the very first rivalry of the WNBA. They picked us to finish last, and they picked them to finish first. That's all you need to know. I remember looking around thinking,

this is going to change things. Basketball was going to have this fundamental impact on the way people viewed women athletes. Listen to biggest rivalries of all time on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Is there bad blood between you and the comments as you guys meet again in the championship.

Oh, we're coming back to win. What up, y'all. This your main man, Memphis Bleak right here, host of that rock solid podcast. And each week, we bring in you exclusive looks inside music. Everything happening inside the culture. Some of the best conversations were the biggest names in the game. You had a little bit more pressure to be good. And they didn't care if you was a girl.

Like, you wasn't getting no points because you were a girl. If you're not trash, you better be. Not just good. You better be great. On rock solid, we're talking to rap legends, hit-making producers, rising stars from the golden era to the future of this hip-hop game, where we keep it 100% unfiltered and keep it nothing but rock solid. Yeah.

The thing about Jay, my opinion, is he's been so great at being seen but mysterious. You know what I'm saying? He don't got to come talk about anything. You figure it out. So it's always a mystique. and mysteriousness behind them, but it ain't like you don't see them. Listen to Rock Solid on Black Effect Podcast Network,

iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you stream podcast. This is the Bobbycast. The All My Exes are Crazy also happens in other capacities that set off red flags for me. If I'm interviewing someone and like, yeah, my last couple bosses sucked, that's a parallel.

It's the same type of person that says that and almost every time, you know, who sucked is the person who's talking about how bad their bosses were, and the same person who talks about all their exes were crazy. It's someone who often shifts blame, generally speaking, to somebody else, and they're eventually going to do that to me. Like, that's what I see when I'm interviewing someone. Now, if you have one boss that kind of sucked,

we've all had one, but when you've had two or three of your last bosses and they just didn't get you, I feel like that's that version. That's the dating version. That's the professional version of, of the dating, all my exes suck. Well, because when you hear all of my exes are crazy, you're like, oh, and you didn't do anything?

It was, so it's interesting because talk about not taking accountability ownership. That was the hardest lesson I think I learned when I was on this journey was not that it's my fault, but baby, you played a part. Like, you allowed this shit. You didn't have boundaries. You didn't speak up. You didn't say what you needed. You didn't walk away. I'm not blaming myself for it.

But if I don't take ownership of it, well, then I'm always a perpetual victim. And you cannot. And when I say this, I think we know what I mean by you can't help a victim. not an actual person that was victimized in a circumstance, but somebody that always sees themselves in the center of like, wo is me, there's no helping that person because they don't see that they have agency and choice. And they just think everything, life is happening to me

when it's like, it's actually happening for you if you open up your eyes and actually fucking see it for what it is. And so when I hear that, instantly I know, I'm like, we're running the other way. Or I don't do drama. When I hear that, I'm like, you're the one who starts it. Yeah, I don't do drama. That also puts up the little flag.

Because people that don't do drama don't need to say they don't do drama. The least dramatic people in my life don't need to tell me they're the least dramatic people. Well, it's like people that talk about how rich they are and you're like, if you are that wealth, you don't need to talk about it. You just move in a different way. When you're super secure, you don't talk about it all the time because it's like, are you trying to convince me or yourself? So I look at those little subtle things and I think that's what changed my dating life was because once I started getting away from the glitz and the glam of like, oh, they're so hot and they're fun. and we laughed for hours and it's like, cool, that could be one thing. But is that the person that's going to be there, like, when someone gets sick?

Or you need to take your kid to the hospital, God forbid, or something that you lose all of your money. Who is going to be by your side? That's the type of stuff that we need to be looking at. And I think so many people are approaching dating in a way that's like, what can you do for me as opposed to how can I be in this connection with you and grow a life together? When you go to New York at 19, did you go up with any money at all? No. I had $500 to my name, and I lived in my friend's spare bedroom. I lived on her couch for like six months while I got my shit together.

What is that like for a 19-year-old? Did you go crazy? No, I thought it was awesome. I didn't know. To me, it was freedom. It was like, oh, my God, I get to do something different. I worked at a hair salon. I worked at Little Lemon.

I worked like three jobs. I tried to go to college. I knew it wasn't for me. My mom helped me pay for acting school, which was like $500 a month. And she was just like, I'll do something to help you get to where you want to be. And then I, like, moved in with an ex. I thought that would be easier because we could split rent. And it was like one of those types of things that like I learned this through every experience.

I didn't have any money my whole entire existence of New York. Like I was just eating. That's why I couldn't travel. I couldn't do things because I was always just enough to cover expenses and rent to the point where like my dog passed away because I missed a medication for him. And he got a Lyme disease. And it was like it's the guilt that I carry within me for so long because I couldn't do what I needed to do because I just wasn't able to take care of myself. the spoiler alert for anyone listening is like once you make money those feelings don't go away you still feel like you're going to lose everything you don't have enough are you doing enough

is this is this going to work because that's a deeper route because i never had safety and money is safety and it scared the living shit out of me how long were you in new york 12 years then you moved l.A then i moved to l.a why my sister was moving to l.A my brother lived in l. sorry my sister was moving to san diego and so she lives in insinitas and my brother was in l.A. and i was just done 12 years of winter and I was like dating in New York was just, it wasn't any better in L.A., but I didn't know that at the time. And I just wanted something different. I had my clothing line. We were originally, and we made the fabric in L.A., shipped it to New York, cut and so to New York.

And it just didn't make any sense. I was paying so much money to bring things back and forth. So I moved manufacturing to all into L.A. But when I moved to L.A., I moved to Venice. Nope, not a great idea during COVID. It was not safe. And I was a nobody. And moving to L.A., when you know no one, you have no money, you have no social following.

Like you are just a person trying to build authentic connections is one of the hardest things that I've ever had to do. Did you ever live in L.A.? I spent a lot of time in L.A., but I would get out as fast as I could. Fair. It just felt different. I grew up in Arkansas, very rural, but then I lived in Austin. Loved it. Nashville is pretty cool.

There's a little bit of L.A. in Nashville now where it's very transactional at times. And you've got to kind of look over your shoulder and you also got to see why your friends are being. and your friends. But I would find in LA that it felt pretty icky. Now, I never got to experience the good part, to be fair. I didn't get to create a friend group. So I would go out and be there shooting a TV show for a month or a couple months or a week, and then I would come back.

So I didn't get to have people I was close to. So I just remember being car sick and always feeling like somebody was trying to get something from me. But to be fair, I did not invest enough time there's a person to meet other people. You're not missing much because now we've been back for. a year and a half. And I have maybe three friends that I can be like, if I call them right now, they would answer. The rest of the people, you're constantly wondering, you're like, oh, you only need something from me. Got it. Okay. You're only, you need me to post something for you. Or you

need me to show up at this party because you want to say that I'm there. Or you like that you get to say that you're my friend. Even people that like, it's not out of malice. A lot of the people there, it's just very, it's a very like, I look at life as a longer table, not a higher fence. And I think that it's the opposite in LA. People in LA automatically assume like, no, no, you're going to take market share for me. And it's like, dude, there's plenty to go around. There are plenty of earballs that will listen to all of us. It's not like, just because I have a podcast doesn't mean you can't. And I find that people, what I've learned in LA is if somebody tells you, I'll let you know, we'll see or maybe, I'm never going to see that person, ever. Like those are the codes.

Like if you're like, oh, yeah, I'll let you know. It's like, eh, they're not coming. It's just not going to happen. Maybe you're like, nah, they're not coming. And that's just, or people will cancel last minute. And you're like, I've had parties where it's like, hey, guys, please show up. Like, we only have 30 spots and like 10 people show up. And you're like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, I spent so much money in time. Like, why don't you guys show up? It's a land of people constantly seeking to find themselves. And I find that in New York, it's very different. In New York, you go to a coffee shop and you meet someone and you hit it off. You're exchanging, you're going out for drinks. Like, you're going out the next day. You're going to

kick it. That might become your next best friend, not in L.A. And dating is a whole other story. Why do you still have out there then? I have a book launching right now, and it made sense because so many things are happening there. But we are right now traveling the country to see if we want to move and where we'd want to move to. Because I don't feel fulfilled. I don't feel like I have my community and I need nature. Like, I can't walk my dog. I don't feel safe in my neighborhood.

There's always a homeless person or someone like trying to start shit or a fire started down the street from my house because like they decided to redecorate. Like, it's not safe. And you can feel that palpably. and it's just not the same. I think pre-COVID versus post is a very different place. So then what's home for you? I'm trying to create that internally for me because I don't think that's a place yet. New York is the closest to home because I can let my freak flag fly.

I talk fast. I curse a lot. And in New York, I've never been made to feel like there was something wrong with me. Whereas anywhere else I go, people constantly like, you know, you speak fast. It's like, oh, you know, I've never heard that. Thank you for a point. What do I do with that? I don't know what to say.

whereas in New York, like, I just never felt that. And so I would say that's the closest to home, but I don't know if home is necessarily a place for me as it is a feeling. Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor. The music you love. I heart radio. Your favorite radio stations. Everywhere you go.

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Everywhere you go. Always free. Download the free IHard Radio app today. I'm Hamza. And I'm Martin. And we're the hosts of Out of Character. It's a podcast. I know there's a lot of them going around.

But why should you listen to ours? Well, we're only the best podcast in the entire world. And we talk about pretty much everything under the sun. For example, music we're listening to, underground music, trending music, drama in music worlds? Yes, sometimes we even talk about just everyday mundane situations in our lives, like the cool Uber driver we just had. Or the food we just say that is surprisingly delicious.

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The talent is insane and the personalities are giving main character energy. And of course, the fans love it. But 30 years ago, when the league first started, it was a different story. I remember sitting with a couple of male writers all whining about, oh, what are they going to do if they break a nail? No one's going to show up. But from the very beginning, there were two. two teams that captured everyone's attention.

The Comets were the real deal. I mean, come on. The Liberty never gave up. They never stopped fighting. I knew that rivalry was going to be amazing from the beginning. I'm Kerry Champion, and this is biggest rivalries of all time, season two. The New York Liberty versus the Houston Commons, the very first rivalry of the WNBA. They picked us to finish last, and they picked them to finish first.

That's all you need to know. I remember looking around thinking, this is what you. going to change things. Basketball was going to have this fundamental impact on the way people viewed women athletes. Listen to biggest rivalries of all time on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Is there bad blood between you in the comments as you guys meet again in the championship? Oh, we're coming back to win. We get it. You have a lot of podcasts to choose from. So many. Too many. But low key, this is not your typical. podcast. We want you to listen if you want to. We won't make you. That's why it's called listen

if you want to. And here's why you'll want to. We'll be your BFFs to tell you what to watch. We'll tell you who you need to care about when it comes to celebrity stuff. Sometimes we'll just talk about random things and you'll actually give a shh. Listen to. Listen if you want to on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What up y'all. Y'all? This your main man, Memphis Bleak right here. Host of that rock Solid podcast and each week we bringing you exclusive looks inside music everything happening inside the culture some of the best conversations were the biggest names in the game you had a little bit more pressure to be good and they didn't care if you was a girl like you wasn't getting no points

because you're looking if you're not trash you better be not just good you better be great or rock silent we talk in the rap legends hit making producers rising stars from the golden era to the future this hip-hop game where we keep it 100% unfiltered and keep it nothing but rock solid yeah the thing about jay my opinion is he's been so great at being seen but mysterious you know what i'm saying he don't got to come talk about nothing you figure it out so it's always a mystique and uh mysteriousness behind them but it ain't like you don't see him listen to rock solid on black effect podcast network i heart radio app apple podcast or wherever you string podcast.

And we're back on the Bobbycast. When people finish your book. Yeah. Because I like last page in books. Like when I'm done, I like to finish and go, okay, how do I feel about that book? Because I enjoy reading. How do you feel like people will feel about your book when they last page it and they finish it? I'm hoping seen.

That's my biggest goal is because I know for a long time, like I felt like there was something fundamentally wrong with me. I genuinely believed everybody else has it figured out. me and like you just can't see but it's in there it's the fucked up that all of it is tangled and i'm hoping that by the end of it listen there are going to be people that are like oh i hated it i'm sure right i curse a ton in there like it's very much me but then i think there are going to be people that are like this was the best fucking thing i read because i i'm hoping that they can understand that the journey of healing doesn't end like you're always going to be continuing but if you can feel seen for a minute of like wow somebody i'm not alone there is somebody else that has

experienced this and they changed their life and they came out the other side, I could do that too. Have you done any of the awkward where you read it out loud? Have you done those yet? Mm-hmm. I hate those. I haven't. I've done it more like on lives on TikTok, but I usually read my hot mess stories more than anything of like the time I'd sent a guy 173 text because he wanted to end it after two months. You did that? Yes. That's how I start the book. That's what I'm like, that's good. That's a good start. I'm a hot mess. Like I or the time that I hooked up with a guy while he answered the phone and made plans while we were in the middle of it and I didn't say anything and I was mortified and then I still kept seeing him after. That's what I mean by like, you can grow

and evolve and change. You don't have to be a therapist clinically to have these experiences to be able to connect with people and share them because, I don't know, I don't resonate with people if they had a silver spoon. Like I resonate with people that have been through shit and have come out the other side because that shows me a grit and determination that I feel like I haven't within myself. What are your DMs like? Hectic. It's a lot of, There's a lot of beautiful messages that I'm so grateful for of like, you changed my life or like this. Oh, my God, you finally explain something I didn't know. Then there's some that are like, I hate you.

And you're like, thank you. Because I trigger people. Like I say what it is that you need to hear, not necessarily what you want to hear. And then there's the ones that it just make me sad of like a message I will get of like, here's the text. What does it mean? And you're like, oh, I don't think you need to decode this. Like, you know what this means. This person just told you they don't like you and they don't want to see you again.

I don't think I need to explain it. And so I think there's a lot of people that are really struggling and they're turning to anybody that they feel like will listen to them to give them some relief from the pain. But I don't think that I'm the person that can necessarily give that. How often do you do your podcast? Every week we have an episode. So it's just mostly me. It's a lot of me. We have guests all like neuroscientists on to explain things.

I saw that you had scientists or therapists or I saw neuro on there as well. what do you talk about in your podcast, long form? Really, it's just the ins and outs of the different aspects of dating and relationships. And now I'm starting to morph out because I'm like, hey, we can't just keep talking about the same thing, right? Like, we get it, take the shine off of them. I understand, please go slow. Like, we've been, it's been four years that we have talked about every aspect. Every stone has been turned.

Now I'm really going into like, what about the physiology of anxiety, like your blood sugar or different things that same to my life that like, now I can sleep through the night. because my blood sugar is managed and I thought it was my childhood trauma and it ended up just being the shit I was eating before bed. Things like that that I think people underestimate not everything is trauma. Sometimes it really just is like, oh, you probably shouldn't have soda right before bed

and things like that. I learned that the hard way. Or like have some more protein in your day, just basic things that you're like, oh, like drink water and go get fresh air. I like to, for me, I love the neuroscience of it because I think our brain is really interesting, like understanding the prefrontal cortex

and the amygdala and how all these things play together and the intermittent reinforcement and the dopamine loops. Like that to me is really fascinating because I like to rig the system. Do you like that stuff? I do. The brain is like the ocean to me though. Endless. Just we don't know.

Like we know parts of it. And even then where it's constantly contradicting what we knew two years ago. So I'm fascinated by it. And even within myself, like I started wanting therapy in my 20s. I didn't grow up with therapy at all. It was part of my insurance, and I thought it'd be a funny bit for me to go do therapy. That's why I started. It was, and I really got a lot from it.

And I've done it all at this point, except, like, I did EMDR, loved it. Like, I have different versions and seasons that I benefited greatly from it. What I haven't done, though, is ketamine. That's my favorite. Have you done it? I did. That's how I met my little. Oh, yeah.

So when you say brain, I think of, like, what I haven't done yet, and I have friends that have done it. and it revolutionized their lives. Change my life. And they say the same thing. And I think a little bit of me is afraid of that vulnerability. So when I say I haven't done it, it's because I've chosen not to do it. It's not because it's not available. But I'm so interested in that and how there's almost like a new imprint.

The thing about ketamine is the actual medicine, whatever you want to call it, the actual medicine, that's not, like, sure, does ketamine have rewiring capabilities? We know that there's science that shows if you do it. I think it's like twice a week for three weeks consistently. That's how you can rewire, quote unquote. For me personally, ketamine was, it was 2019. I just gone through the worst breakup of my life.

And this is a story in the book because I wanted to explain, like, not everyone has to do a journey if you don't want to, but like if you do, it's available. I felt really stuck. And I was like, okay, I'm doing all the talk therapy. I'm doing it. I'm doing it. What I love about ketamine is it creates a big. barrier. And so you feel like a spectator in a museum. So you're not like when I saw my little, I wasn't feeling like I was eight years old, but I felt like an adult watching it being like, oh my God, you poor thing. And so I was able to connect with her in a different way because it takes away kind of all the noise. But you have to have an intention when you go in, because if you just go in being like, I'm just going to see what happened, you might as well go to a party. Like you're floating and all of a sudden, you're like, nothing. But when you're really intentional of like where am I stuck, what am I holding onto? What do I need to see that I may not have seen yet? Whatever.

You come up with whatever feels like it. That's when it does its job. It's like 20 minutes. It is not this long. It's an ayahuasca. That's like 15 hours. You're not throwing up. Like there's none of that.

It's not intense. But the feelings and the emotions, you will cry in a way that you've never expected to cry because you're finally seeing things that your subconscious was like, uh, not today. And so it opened up this little window for me to be like, oh, that's where she's stuck. Oh, that's what she thinks.

Oh, my God. That's what she thinks of me. Now I get to go back and save her. And so like I had done probably 15 kind of. mean treatments at this point. Now I could do it without. But it's a beautiful exploration for you to be able to see, especially with what you went through as a kid and like the bigger T traumas, that might be really hard for you to see. It takes away that buffer so that you're not feeling that same feeling, but you're able to see it in a different lens. So I would highly recommend it

when you're ready. I think a little bit of me too, and this is a fear I had when I really got into therapy was I didn't want to lose my edge that made me productive because it was the only time I felt valid and successful was through productivity and whatever I was creating. And so it's a bit of that as well. If I go and I have this aha life moment and I, like, am I just going to want to lay around and eat Waffle House all day and not work? And I know that is irrational because I've already had that with myself over the last decade.

Because I don't want to go to therapy and fix myself so much. That's what my thought. If I fix myself so much, I'm not going to have this broken but this superpower. because it can be both. It can be a broken part of you and something that really creates something awesome at the same time. But I think a little bit it's that.

And then a little bit too, it's just I have so much drug history in my family. Yeah. Where it's like, I get that. I'll love it. That's why I've never had a drink of alcohol,

but I want to get drunk every day. I want to do every drug. And I haven't because I know I will love it. I'll be the best at it. I'll be the best drug taker ever. I'll say, that's a different story, right? Obviously, if you know that there's a familial history where you're like, oh, I might actually,

I personally, I don't love the feeling because I like to be in control, and so that's why substance bothers me because I'm like, I don't know. I'm floating. I don't want to fucking feel this. It kind of means a different experience, especially when you do it therapeutically. You're like, no, no, I don't know that I want to keep doing this. Like, take me out, like tap out. I'm good because it's intense.

Like you're seeing and feeling things that you're like, fuck, I thought I had dealt with this. But it was interesting. As you know, on the other side of it, you're like, don't worry. That part still exists. The like, I have to work really hard because your nervous system was wired in a place that, like, you're not going to get rid of that. But I think if you are ready, it's like making sure that you do it. obviously, like a doctor, having after the, having a session the next day to be able to work through it is really important, not just doing it on your own. Because if you don't have somebody that you can actually integrate it with, it might as well not have done it.

Because you want to be able to integrate the material, the learnings and all that. So that's why I always scheduled a therapy session the next day after it, because your brain is still open and you could start to rewire from there. But it's not a magic pill. I could tell you that. I've done so many of them at this point and I still do it. And you're like, okay, I saw the same vision that I know is still an issue. But maybe sometimes you hear something different or you explore something different. That's really what it's there for. But those parts of me now, they just become clearer.

So now I know that perfectionist, the girl that's like, the other day, I was sitting at home and my partner, he's like, please relax. Get off your phone. You get one day. It's a whole week you've been working 24-7. I fundamentally felt uncomfortable being because there's always a shoe that's going to drop. There's always someone that's going to yell. There's always an issue. But being able to just be is actually like the creative.

easiest experience when you're an adult and you've never been able to do that. But like, I've done how many ketamine treatments. That still hasn't changed that. So, like, you won't lose your edge. Don't worry. You'll still be good. But it might be a ketamine addict. You might. Oh, it doesn't sound like that much fun, to be honest. Anything, I don't relax ever. I hear you. Ever. Game sees game. I know. Yeah. Like, I would love to smoke weed. Weed makes me more anxious. I would love to drink whiskey. Yeah, yeah. I know what you mean. Just Just anything, just to find anything to just take me down a notch. There was a time where I had a lot of security issues, and I mentioned earlier, like, I got

jumped, got my house broken into, I've had a lot of death threats, just for whatever reason. And so I was taking sleeping pills because I was getting sick all the time. And I never wanted, I don't even like to take medicine because I'm afraid of getting addicted to anything. And I would just stay sick. My doctor, like, you're not sleeping. If you're not sleeping, you're going to get sick. And so we tried a lot of stuff

and I took sleeping pills and I just I wouldn't remember nights because I would take them and then I'd go well let me just keep working for a little bit I can outlast this

and then I would not remember nights and I would see that I FaceTime people and I would see that I drove off of the gas pump in my car once so I was doing this and I would take them

when I was flying and I just did not want to wake up like in a jail cell because I pooped in an airplane aisle or something and didn't remember it. That's a very, fair concern. I'm not going to lie. But here's the thing. As beautiful as ketamine is, I could put

money on it that if you and I, because I work client, I love working with people one-on-one. Like, it's a beautiful thing. It's obviously not scalable because there's only so many people you can work with. I could bring you into a meditation that would probably replicate ketamine, but you would have to be ready for it. You would have to be ready for me to bring you to that place, and that's the only thing that the medicine does. Can you meditate? Not well. Same. I have to do guided. Like I, like a, like a, a, walking meditation, I can fuck that up, a guided meditation, things like that. But like, it's a practice that I've had to implement because I have ADHD, so my brain is

everywhere and nowhere. But when I do the meditations, like one of my, my therapists will do that with me or my coach will do that with me. It's the one place where it's like, I get to actually focus on the things that I've been pushing down this whole time. Because that voice of like, you have to work, you have to work, you have to work, if you actually get curious, I'm sure you have. But like, when you get curious about that voice of like, hey, what are you scared of happening if I don't. What do you think will happen if I don't? What do you make this mean about you if we don't actually do that? That's what this medicine helps you understand. And that's what's underneath it. But those protector parts are like, no, no, no, no, don't feel

any of that feeling like a loser, feeling like you're not approved of, feeling like no one's going to love you for who you are. Let's just focus on, here, this is how you earn your love. It's, again, a maladaptive coping mechanism. I will say this. If you ever want to do it, I'll do it with you. Not the ketamine, but I'll bring you under, I'll take you into a meditation. I've really tried hard to meditate, not hard enough or I would have done it. It's very difficult. I've not committed to the level I think that I would need to to be successful because I'm not someone that says, I can't do it.

It doesn't work for me. I think I haven't prioritized it. Yeah. So as now, I have not been able to benefit from it. I have tried. The closest thing that I can do to meditation, there are two things. One is reading because I'm not going to take in what I'm reading unless I'm focused only on it. And for me, that's the closest I've ever guided meditating is if I have a

mantra or a word or whatever I'm visualizing and I'm only focused on it. Because that's the point, right, is to remove everything out and remove everything out. You have to focus on one thing in the versions that I've done. I was going to say, because meditation for me has been also about being okay as the thoughts come in that you don't have to act on them. That's fair. And I think that's been taught to me too. I've had to really boil it down. Because it's just focus on this. And if everything comes in, that's fine. Just stay focused and don't let them bother you. Yeah.

Or like a cloud, right? Like, okay, I thought about that. Great. But the difference is when I do the meditation with my clients, I'm guiding you through it. You're talking to me. And so it's not like a, and you're just sitting there. It's like, no, no, no, no, I'm going to ask you. I'm going to prompt you.

I'm going to be like, okay, what are they saying? Grab them. Will they let you touch you? Will they let you hold them? Will they let you say this to them? What do they want you to know? That's interesting. That feels like EMDR a little bit when I did that.

A little bit. EMDR did not work for me, but everybody's different. Every modality works for different people, but it's just been, I don't know, I love inner child work and I love being able to connect because I've learned that when that part of you thinks they need to drive the car, like, yeah, so I had a cease and desist in my podcast name,

and that fucking sucked. What was the name originally? Do the work? And what do the work cease and assisted you? Is there another podcast? Another brand, really? He was like some dude in another city that owned the trademark, and when I started my show,

I never thought I would be anything. So, like, I don't know. I didn't think about it. And I lost my, like, lost myself. And why was I, I said, God, welcome to ADHD brain. I'm like, why was I telling you the story? Oh, duh. When I had the cease and desist and I got the name, and I remember being in my coaching session, like, losing my marbles.

And it hit me in that moment. The seven-year-old in me was like, how am I going to make money? How am I going to figure this out? And I was like, wait, this has never been your responsibility. Like, you should go be a kid. I have to be the one. That's why I love this work. is because it allows you to be like, yeah, okay, I got this.

I'm the adult. I'm the person. I'm the protector. Not the seven-year-old to me that thinks that they need to because that's the part that's coming from fear. And that's not fair because our amygdala stop growing at six years old. That's the fear center. So it didn't get to really adapt and to form and to grow as an adult because that's just

how our brain works. For those that are watching on Netflix, this is the book here. Why Am I Like This? For those that are listening, that's the name of it. You can search it up. Why Am I Like This? Congratulations. I hope you get from it what you deserve to get from it. Thank you.

Yeah. Super cool. Thanks, Bobby. What about the forward? Did you read it? Did you okay it? Yeah. I love Dr. Romani. She's amazing. Did you offer notes on it or just accept it as is? When she sent it, I cried when I read it. There was a couple of things that we cut out. We'd be like, I don't know if we should say this.

Just like things I had nothing to do with it. But for the most part, I was like, wow, she really, like she gets me. She got me. She understood me. And so it was really, it was nice to have a clinical psychologist. just understand the work I do because I get a lot of people that attack me for not being a therapist and saying I shouldn't be talking about these things. I'm not trying to replace a therapist by any means. I think it's the most incredible experience to have. But I also don't think that because I'm not licensed doesn't mean I don't have the ability to be able to talk about these things. Congratulations. You're super fun. Thank you. We never met.

No. And when do you go home? Tonight? Oh, you do? Yeah. All the way back to L.A., the dreaded land of me. I'll let you know You guys check out the book Sabrina, thank you so much for coming by Thanks for having me, Bobby. Thanks for listening to a Bobbycast production.

Lisa, tell them about our new show. We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Youanu. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa Di Giulio, the old one,

which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions, and at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If anyone wanted to commit a murder,

up here would be the greatest place in the world to hide the body. But no one will find it. He acted friendly. He talked friendly. He sounded friendly. They all knew that I did the scary boogie stuff. And I said, maybe she'll find out where this girl is. I saw him violent.

Backhandler, a pow! Listen to The Devil's Quarry Season 2 in the Bone Valley Feed on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, it's Chelsea from Dear Chelsea this season. We've got some awesome guests ready to dole out advice, guests like Adam Scott. How does that make you feel? Did I look like Tom Cruise? First of all, do you think? Do you think? Do you think? Do you think? I'm sorry, I started the sentence first.

I think I think I think. Portia Williams, Sarah Borellas, Tiffany Haddish, Anna Farris, Carrie Russell, Kristen Johnston, and more. Listen to Dear Chelsea on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Fox Sports Reporter Jenny Taft. And I'm former U.S. Women's National Soccer team player, And on our new podcast, whatever it takes, nothing is off limits. I played with players that didn't truly love the game. I found the love with the ball at my foot. I don't care what I'm being asked to do at Fox. I'm going to go get some reps and love it and embrace it.

Listen to whatever it takes with Carly Lloyd and Jenny Taft on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's up? I'm Tony Gonzalez. And I'm October Gonzalez. But you can call me Toby. We want you to join you. us on our new podcast, No Safe Words with October and Tony Gonzalez. We get real about marriage, parenthood, sex, divorce, and all the nitty-gritty stuff we all think about, but just don't say out loud. You're probably just going to be some rich guy and he's going to whisk you away.

Well, this is awkward. Listen to No Safe Words with October and Tony Gonzalez on the Iheart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.