The Bobby Bones Show - BONUS EP: Amy Brown Talks 10% Happier With Dan Harris

Episode Date: February 2, 2026

Presented by Audible, Amy interviews Dan Harris, bestselling author of 10% Happier. They dive into panic attacks, mental health, meditation myths, and small changes that can make a big impact. Insightful, approachable, and perfect for anyone looking to quiet the noise and feel a little more grounded. Dan Harris is the author of the #1 New York Times best-selling memoir, 10% Happier, about a fidgety, skeptical news anchor who finds meditation. He’s also the host of the 10% Happier podcast where he interviews celebrities, entrepreneurs, authors, scientists, and meditation teachers about how to do life better. For 21 years, he worked at ABC News, where he anchored such shows as Nightline and the weekend editions of Good Morning America. You can learn more about Dan at DanHarris.com. For more of Dan’s journey with mindfulness, listen to his book 10% Happier, only on Audible. Kickstart your well-being journey with your first audiobook free when you sign up for a 30-day trial at Audible dot com. Membership is $14.95 a month after 30 days. Cancel anytime.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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we have an incredible new episode this week for you guys. We have our girl Hillary Duff in here, and we can't wait for you to hear this episode. They put on Lizzie McGuire 2 a.m. Video on Demand, this guy's bo-o-o-a-m. 2 a.m. I'm like, Lizzie McGuire. And I'm like, a wild batch you were with.

It was like a first like closet moment from me where I was like, you're like, I don't feel like she's hot, like the rest of them. No, no, no. I was like, she's beautiful. But I'm appreciating her in a different way than these boys are. I'm not like, ugh. But listen to Los Angeles on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcast. How much you wait, wonder?

Right now, about 130. I'm at 183. We should race. No, I want to leave here with my original hip. On the podcast of Matchup with Alia, I pair prominent female athletes with unexpected guests. On a recent episode, I sat down with undisputed boxing champ, Clarissa Shields, and comedian Wanda Sykes, to talk about Wanda's new movie, Undercard, the art of trash talk, and what it really means to be ladylike. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search the Matchup with Alia and listen now.

Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports Network. It takes 30 days to form a habit and 90 days to make it stick. Lucky for you, Audible and I have teamed up to bring you the Sound Reset Challenge, a four-week series designed to help you unlock your 2026 goals, projects, and resolutions. All brought to you by Audible. Audible's well-being collection has everything to inspire and support you in every step of your well-being journey. I'm Amy Brown, co-host on the Bobby Bone Show, and today I'm joined by Dan Harris, who is an Emmy Award-winning journalist, former ABC News anchor, and now a practicing teacher of meditation and mindfulness. Nearly 12 years ago in 2014, Dan released his book 10% Happier, an autobiographical tale of

the spiritual, scientific, and skeptical odyssey that led him through many portals of the self-help world to his own mindfulness practice. The book was a bestseller and did a lot to bring mindfulness to the mainstream. Today, Dan is here to share pertinent insights from his journey, and then we're going to challenge you, the listeners, to a four-week course for getting out of your own way and on your way to reaching your goals. Listen as we challenge you to turn your resolutions into reality. All right. So, Dan, I listened to 10% happier on Audible and I got to say one of my favorite little perks of that was the meditations at the end. And I did the walking meditation yesterday. Great. Good on you. How

it go? It went really well. I hadn't done a walking meditation in several months, but I was like, oh, this is here at the end. I might as well do it. And I got to say walking meditations are my favorite kind. But there is something you talk about in the book that was really interesting to me with the brain scans. It was maybe an update that you did towards the end. So I don't know if it was in the original book. But I thought, shoot, now I want a scan of my brain to see if I'm even meditating correctly.

I would strongly recommend against that. Because one of the, well, first of all, I did it, and it was a disaster. And I walked away, totally confused about whether I was meditating correctly. And then I actually had dinner that night with my longtime meditation teacher. And he told me that he did it too. And he was confused. And so I don't recommend it. My worry for all meditators, including myself, is that you get hung up on this question,

if am I doing it right? And here's the simple answer. If you find yourself focused for a few nanoseconds at a time on whatever you're trying to focus on, like your breath or the sensations of your body as you're walking, and then you get distracted a million times and then start over a million times, then you're doing it correctly. Well, that's the encouragement I need to hear Dan, so thank you. And I know it's been years for you now,

but for those who don't know, what inspired your mindfulness journey and led you to writing this book? cocaine I guess that would be the one word answer but the long slightly longer answer is that I used to be in a in a former life a globe trotting war correspondent for ABC news in the years after 9-11 I spent a lot of time in Pakistan Afghanistan Israel the West Bank Gaza and then then a ton of time in Iraq probably a year total in Iraq over the course of six or seven trips And I came home in the middle of this period of time and I got depressed, although I didn't know I was depressed. And then I did this like incredibly stupid thing of self-medicating with recreational drugs, including cocaine. And that led to a panic attack on national television, on Good Morning America back in 2004. Actually, I had two panic attacks. One in 2004, one in 2005.

The better one to watch is the one from 2004. And if you Google panic attack on television, mine is the number one result, which makes my mother so proud. And after I had that panic attack, I realized I needed to sort my stuff out. And so I started seeing a psychiatrist, and that ultimately led me to meditation. So that's the brief answer. Yeah. And your short answer being the cocaine, that's something that I found to be so interesting about this book is how vulnerable you got, especially the type of work that you do. I know that's something that you wrestled with.

Like, am I going to share this very vulnerable detail about my life? But for me, I found it, well, first of all, I was really shocked because I've watched you on TV for years. And I thought, no way, he was, you know, doing drugs like that, heart and ecstasy. Like, I just couldn't separate you out on the town with you being the news guy. My brain struggled with that a little bit. And then I also was thankful because it humanized you. And it also helped me relate to you more. Not that I have that exact, you know, the exact story that you have by any means.

But I just was like, oh, wow, he's just not this guy on the news. He has a real story. And it made me just find everything you were saying just a little bit more believable. I guess that's how I would summarize it. Because sometimes you read like self-help stuff and you're like, okay, yeah, right. Like I don't really know that I could apply this to my life. And I was like, no, if he did this and it completely changed his life and you, It's something that you had to do.

And now I want to circle back to the title of the book, 10% Happier. Is that a phrase you still use to this day because you came up with that title a long time ago? I do use it. Look, I'll just tell the story for the people listening who may not be familiar with any of this, that I got interested in meditation at a time when it wasn't really socially acceptable to talk about it. So this is probably like 2008, 2009, 2010. And occasionally people at work would say, you know, what's what has gotten into you or what's the matter with you? You used to be semi cool.

And I remember a conversation where I was talking to my friend Chris and she was asking this question. And I said, you know, I do it because it makes me 10% happier. And I could see the look on her face transform from scorn to mild interest. And I thought, okay, well, this is my schick. This is how I'm going to talk about it. because there's so much over-promising in the self-help world that I think is quite reckless and greedy, frankly. And so I wanted to have a way to talk about it that made sense. And I'll be honest, I'm, you know, I've been meditating for, I don't know, 16, 17 years,

and I'm way more than 10% happier. So now my little tweak is that it's like a good investment. You know, if you're consistently investing in the stock market, you'll get 10% annual returns probably. but they will compound over time if you keep investing. And so my level of happiness now while I continue to make mistakes and, you know, life happens to me, illness happens, you know, people in my life pass away. All of the things that happened to the rest of us happen to me. But my ability to handle it with some sophistication just continues to get better. I love that.

The compounding. How difficult was it for you to decide to write this and reveal. things about your own journey that you did. I know in the book you mentioned your mom called you the night before it was going to release or something. And she was like, don't do it. Don't do it. Don't put it out there. And you're like, well, I have books in the warehouse. So it's happening. It was really hard. I mean, it feels like another life because the book came out in 2014, so nearly, you know, 12 years ago. But yes, I was super nervous. And my mom's email to me shortly before the book came out in which she begged me not to publish the book was not helpful,

although I'm not trying to criticize my mom. She was just being a protective mother. Honestly, when you ask that question, I start thinking about the fact that one year from now, actually less than one year from now, at the beginning of January next year, I have a sequel coming out that is frankly more embarrassing and I'm in the middle of the rewrites for it, today as a matter of fact and and I'm having very similar feelings of like am I really going to do this and what are people going to think and and ultimately what I come back to always is I guess this is just how I teach and I think my MO or my way of being a public figure now is to admit the stuff that most people won't admit but is actually true for them anyway and so one of the ways I

describe this is that some people teach from the mouth mountain top and I teach from the fetal position. Well, I think you also, it's got to be a little comforting to have the data from the first book because you were nervous. Similarly, I understand those nerves coming back again, but then you've got data of like, oh, I've done this before. I've been here. And what the data is telling me is this is what people appreciate and respect from me and this should do well too. That's true to a certain extent. And I definitely, I know, and there's research to show that

if you share, if you self-disclose, if you're vulnerable to use the term of art, people tend to like you. But there is, there's fear nonetheless for all of us, even for somebody who's done it very publicly as I have. And I guess part of me is scared that people will say, well, wait a minute, how can you continue to make mistakes? You're supposed to be some sort of meditation guy. And I know my answer to that, which is that, you know, there is no. There is no. such thing as perfection. I'm Mr. 10% and I'm going to continue to make mistakes and I'm going to continue to self-disclose because I think it's helpful for other people because it normalizes all of our weird stuff. But it is, it's, you know, there's no situation in which it's the fear

will go away, I think. Well, let's talk about the monkey mind. How do you think that shows up in our world today? Yeah. So the monkey mind is a term that, you know, is kind of taken from the Buddha who was a dude who lived 2,600 years ago in India, Nepal. And he was really a, you can think of him as just an amazing genius level meditation teacher. That's just one way to think of him. And he had this, he compared our minds to monkeys in that we're just jumping all over the place. We were just constantly thinking about the past or the future. we're instead of focusing on what's happening right now we're we're judging people we're judging

ourselves we're we're wanting stuff we're not wanting stuff and and when you're unaware of this non-stop conversation which you are having with yourself when you're unaware of it it owns you every little thought that flits through your mind is like and this is the way my meditation teacher describes it every little thought becomes a tiny dictator you just act it out you have a thought of like oh, maybe I should say something right now that will ruin the next 48 hours of my marriage. And then you just do it. And what meditation does is help you not be so owned by this stream of consciousness that's happening all the time. And that if we broadcast aloud, we'd be locked up. But most of us are only kind of vaguely aware of the thinking process. And if we can become a little

bit more aware, aka a little bit more mindful, than we have more choice and freedom. Speaking of being locked up, I was just taken back to a part in the book where you, as a journalist, you did solitary confinement for, what was it, 48 hours? First of all, I couldn't believe that a prison, like, agreed to, like, lock you up that way. So just side note there. It's like you were dedicated to that story. You know, I find that people are generally willing to lock up somebody from the mainstream media. You know, we're pretty unpopular.

So that part wasn't the hard part. The hard part was actually doing it. And honestly, it really did land me on the conclusion that solitary confinement, while it may be necessary in some extreme cases, is kind of torture. We are social animals. You know, if you think about the history of humans, we never had claws or talons or. or wings or massive size. In fact, in our early days as a species, we were prey animals. We only got to the top of the food chain because of our ability to cooperate, communicate, collaborate, care.

And everything about modern life now militates against that. Everything about modern life is hyper individualistic, isolated in our own tech bubbles. were being pitted against one another on social media because the versions of the humans that we disagree with, the version we see of them is like a cartoon version often. So there's no, I don't think it's a coincidence that in this isolated, individualistic, lonely era that we're seeing unprecedented, never before seen levels of anxiety, depression, suicide, addiction. and loneliness. And so actually that is kind of what I'm writing about in my next book, for lack of a less cheesy term, it's about love. You know, we, if you were to forget whether you want to meditate or not. And I'm totally fine. People should make their own minds up. I think you can live a very happy life if you don't meditate. But you cannot live a happy life

if you don't have high quality relationships in your life. And, you know, one of the other things that's happening these days is that people are really into optimist. We're trying to live forever. We're buying books on longevity and then tracking our sleep and counting our steps and all that stuff. And that's fine as far as it goes. But honestly, what the science shows is that if you care about living a long, happy and by the way, professionally successful life, the thing to optimize for is the quality of your relationships. And so actually, if I could leave you or anybody with anything today, it's it's that. Well, with the, which thank you for that. Relationships are so important. In your meditation journey, once you started that, how did it impact your work life and your personal life? What are some changes you saw? Huge changes.

In my personal life, it just made me more patient. I made that joke before about how sometimes you have this thought of, like, let me just say something because I want to discharge this anger. I'm feeling in my body. so let me just say something and then then you regret it and you hurt somebody's feelings and so i'm i still do that but i'm much much better i i notice when i'm feeling angry and i'm i i'm a let it come and go and i'm much better at just waiting to act until the anger has passed i'm not saying anger never has any uses It does, of course. But rarely have I made a good decision in a state of anger.

And so one way to talk about this is you learn how to respond wisely to things in your life instead of reacting blindly. And I used to be very reactive. And I had quite a temper and it showed up at work and it showed up in my marriage. And again, I'm not saying I'm perfect, but I do much less of that. and it's had a huge effect, honestly. That's another thing I appreciated in the book was talking about, kind of like your before and after your behavior,

how you would fire off females, like if you weren't chosen for something. And that's something that we as viewers, we don't really think about when we're watching you all in the news, is that like, oh, you know, they were chosen for this story or this segment. And there's, you know, 10 other people that were maybe fighting for that segment or being sent off to this particular location.

to cover this particular event. And that ever since I listened to the book, now I've watched different things. I'm like, hmm, I wonder who really wanted this segment of this spot. But I guess we'll call you your premeditation days. Yeah, you admitted to firing off emails and kind of making a scene probably behaved in a way that you weren't really proud of. And what I thought was cool, though, and probably could offer a lot of people some hope is that there's room for change. and that people can accept the change because suddenly you said you had coworkers,

you know, I'm going to paraphrase here, but how I recall it, like just thinking that you're this kind person. And that's not necessarily how they saw your behavior before, but they were noticing it after meetings and how you would carry yourself. And I was like, oh, that's awesome. Because if people know that, okay, just because I've shown up this way for the last decade,

doesn't mean I have to continue. Like, I can change and people accept me for it. I want to revise or maybe refine what I said before about the one thing I would leave you with. I'm going to make it too. And maybe this, what I'm about to say is even more important because you, and I'm just picking up on what you said, we can change. And I think many of us might not believe that in our bodies, in our bones. Like we might think that we are X amount patient or X amount of loving or friendly or calm or whatever. And that's just our unalterable factory setting.

And that's just not true. And I'm not, you don't have to take my word for it. What the science is showing us is that the brain and the mind are trainable. You can, through meditation and many other practices, literally change your brain. Meditation, for example, rewires the part of the brain associated with focus, who are also distracted these days. You can remedy that. Stress, the part of the brain associated with stress has been shown to literally shrink among meditators.

So change is possible. Happiness, which is what all of us want, it's a skill. I mean, and that's just such a liberating idea. And, you know, in some ways, like I, I, my old job as an anchorman and reporter was to travel around the world covering bad news. And now my job is to travel around the world and deliver good news, which is that you can change. It's perfection is not on offer, but messy, marginal change is absolutely available to everyone. Yeah, I think the more that we can remind ourselves that, yeah, the brain is multiple neuroplasticity. I think when you have that information and you know that it's actually true, then there's this hope because some people are just so, well, this is how I'm wired or this is how I was raised or this is what my parents did.

And that's the story they can tell themselves. But the facts are telling us something different. So thank you for that reminder as well. So hopefully you throw some more takeaways, important takeaways in because both of those that you've shared are very, very, very important. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw,

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We share stories and scientific insights to help us all better navigate these periods of turbulence and transformation. There is one finding that is consistent, and that is that our resilience rests on our relationships. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. On a recent episode of the podcast Money and Wealth with John Hope Bryant, I sit down with Tiffany the budgetista Aliche to talk about what it really takes to take control of your money. What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people when they're no longer here?

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Let's talk about boredom because you do mention that the mindfulness changed your relationship with boredom. And I think we could all benefit from that. So share more about your journey. with boredom and mindfulness. I want to make a case for boredom. Much of our lives these days revolve, whether we know it or not,

around fending it off. I have a visceral memory. I just remember exactly where I was when I got my first iPhone in, I think, 2007. That was the year? No. Yeah, okay, that was the year. We had a trivia again the other day,

and it was what year did the iPhone come out? And I said, I think it was 2006 or 2008. I'm not sure. And then I ended up going with 2008. And then sure enough, it was the year in between those two. So thank you for that. So, yeah, I remember in 2007, I'm dating myself now because I was a grown-ass man in 2007 already. I got an iPhone.

And I remember having the thought, I will never be bored again. That's not good. we the interesting and important things happen when we're bored new ideas can be made we are I think and this is also very important we're allowing ourselves to sit with a certain amount of discomfort because boredom is uncomfortable what has happened and I'm not anti-technology but But it, you know, the iPhone or smartphones generally, and then on top of that, five, five or ten years later, the proliferation of social media apps that live on the phone, they have had some negative effects. And one of them is that our lives are so filled and cluttered, filled with and cluttered by stimulation that we're unable or unwilling. in many cases to just be. In fact, there have been some studies that have asked people,

what would you rather do? They put people in a room and say, you can sit here and just be alone with your thoughts, or you can administer, self-administer, electric shocks. The vast majority, especially of men, will take the shocks because they don't want to sit and just be there. you know, they don't want to do the thing that we as a species did for tens of thousands of years before 2007. And so what I want to make the case for is just to run the experiment in your life. The next time you notice your zombie arm reaching for your phone because you're standing online.

And by the way, no judgment here, I do this stuff too. But the next time you notice like, okay, I'm standing online or I'm sitting on a plane waiting for the door to open so he can deplane or all those little in-between. moments during your day when you just reflexively reach for the phone, try not check out like what it's like if you don't do it. And can you sit with that? You know, there's this trend of, again, mostly men online raw dogging reality where like you'll see them on 18-hour flights and they don't check any their phone at all, although they are using their phone to film themselves while they do it. And so, I mean, I think it's kind of ridiculous, but also pointing to something important.

Like, can you just be in your life, this one incredibly precious life we got that's, we don't know how long it's going to last, but we know it's going to end. Can you just be here for it? And that will help you to be there for all the beautiful moments during which many of us are actually like rushing to the next thing or thinking about what kind of notifications we might have on our phone instead of actually being awake and alive for this. amazing, mysterious, painful, confusing thing called life. And so I said it's just as being okay with boredom is like a rich, non-trivial endeavor.

Yeah, and I think I've seen some of the raw dogging stuff online too. And just for people, like if you're seeing people on flights, yeah, doing it for multiple hours at a time. Like if you want to try it out at home, I've also seen people just doing like, you know, setting a timer for 10 minutes and then sitting up against. the wall with nothing else around them and they're they just brawl dog for for 10 minutes and you can start with small chunks and I would say you would probably say the same thing about meditation too you know you could start with smaller and then grow from there because I think

when I first started meditating a few years ago I did some meditation challenge with my sister for like the first 30 day like a 30 day challenge like at the beginning of the year and I I had no clue but I felt I felt I felt like if I wasn't sitting down and doing it for 30 minutes, then I wasn't, there was no point. Or if my brain drifted off to something else, there was no point because I had failed. But thankful to a lot of other people out there. And then your story, even when I was listening to it, I'm like, okay, yes, he's reminding me. Like, you're going to have thoughts. Just let those thoughts come and then send them away and come back. But you don't have to set out and do a 30-minute one.

And like thinking of exercising or and how we know exercise is important, right? We've already, that's already been drilled into us. We know conditioning. But meditation hasn't been around quite as long. But you would probably put that in the same category as like, yeah, this is just as important. So I'd imagine, who knows, 10, 20 years from now, it might just be like a normal thing that we know that like food, sleep, water, working out meditation. Like it'll just be one of the things that we do. You are asking such a good questions, and that one, there are so many things that I just want to double click on or expand upon.

I'll see if I can remember them all. First, on the raw dogging thing, rather than setting a timer and just sitting there doing nothing, the reason why I think it's kind of ridiculous is I think you can use those moments to meditate, which will actually help you be okay with being awake in those in between moments and, frankly, every moment. The other thing I want to say is, and you hinted at this, like with the challenge you did, the meditation challenges you've done, and this sense that you felt like I'm not really doing it unless I do 30 minutes. I just want to relieve you of any pressure or undue pressure you're putting on yourself. All of the research around habit formation indicates that it's very hard to do to start a new habit. And so we don't need to beat ourselves up if we struggle with it or if we have to try again and again and again to really boot up a habit. So first, just it's okay to struggle with this. And the second thing is probably the most reliable route to success is to start small.

So I often tell people, you know, start with one minute daily-ish. So you want to lower the stakes and make this as easeful as possible. The other thing I just want to make sure I bless for you again is that if you're getting distracted and starting again and getting distracted and starting again, that's totally fine. Clearing your mind is impossible unless you're enlightened or you've died. So, you know, it's such a deeply, you know, unhelpful misconception about meditation that you have to clear your mind in order to do it correctly. Really, all we're trying to do is try to pay attention to one thing.

Often it's the feeling of your breath coming in and going out. And then you get distracted and start again, get distracted and start again. A lot of people think that the getting distracted is a failure, but actually its success, because the whole point of this exercise, is to get familiar with the chaos and cacophony of your mind so that it doesn't own you as much. So you're not doing as many stupid things. And that's immensely, immensely valuable. So I think I answered all the things I wanted to say based on your great question.

Did I miss anything? No, that was great. I want to talk about meta meditation next. The integration of compassion. Can you expand on that for people? Yes. To be clear, meta, M-T-T-A, not to be confused with meta, M-E-T-A, the company that owns Facebook and Instagram. Meta.

So, and I'm not correcting you, I think you already knew that. I'm just making sure the listeners understand that this is not a commercial for Instagram. M-E-T-T-A is an ancient form of meditation. also said to be invented by the Buddha, although the versions of it that are available now are totally, and everything I'm talking about now is totally secular and scientifically researched, and it can be, these practices can be done by Christians, Jews, Muslims, whatever, your religious belief, or if you have no religious beliefs at all, you can do this stuff. It's not, it's not religious.

It is, you can think of it as exercise for your brain. Oh, that was the other thing you said earlier that I wanted to just make sure I double-clicked on or amplified, which is I do think we're now thinking about fitness in broader ways. So I'm all for physical fitness. I work out daily. But there's also mental fitness, which meditation falls into. Therapy would fall into that too, like making sure that your brain and mind are as sharp as they can be. And then now increasingly we're talking about social fitness or relational fitness. Like how are your relationships doing?

Because that actually is the greatest predictor of lifespan, the quality of your relationships. Anyway, back to meta. And this is actually not unrelated. This is another form of meditation that has been studied quite a bit in the labs and has been shown to have psychological, physiological, and even behavioral benefits. preschoolers taught this form of meditation have been shown to be more likely to give stickers away to kids in their class they do not like. So it can have a real impact.

So what is it? Before I describe it in detail, let me just say that when I first heard about this, it seemed incredibly annoying to me. So just brace yourself. But basically the practice is you envision a series of people or it can be pets, in at least one of the categories. You start with an easy person, or this is where you can use your pet, somebody who's really uncomplicated and easy to love, and you imagine them in your mind, and then you send

a bunch of phrases like, may you be happy, may you be healthy, may you live with ease, et cetera, et cetera. And then you work your way through a sequence from an easy person to yourself, to a mentor, to a neutral person, somebody you see all the time, but don't have many feelings about. than a difficult person, and then everybody everywhere. And it can feel a little bit like Valentine's Day with a gun to your head, but it has deep, deep impacts on your brain and on the rest of your body. And for me, as somebody who's kind of, for me as somebody who's really wired as a frosty New Englander,

it has helped me immensely in having a friendlier attitude toward my own mind. and that then has implications for how I am out in the world. And then how I am out in the world makes me even happier. And then I'm even more friendly out in the world. And then I get even happier. And it's a really beneficial upward spiral. Does that make sense what I'm saying? Oh, yeah.

I'm already just sitting here thinking like, could all the world leaders be required to do meta meditation? Amen. I mean, because obviously as a leader, you have to have a certain amount of edge, but you address this in the book as well. I do understand how complicated that might seem, especially for you if you're trying to practice one thing

and then you have to show up another way. And, you know, people should listen to the book to know more of what we're talking about there because I really enjoyed that part about how to show up one way and then showing up at work another way and then your wife even had to get involved and, you know, nudge you along.

a little bit like come on you got to get yourself in the game um but yeah so like as a leader you can't you have to there's certain ways you have to be i get that but also they could all just share their stickers a little more you know yes yes you know i mean this is so important because i am i am a businessman and um a content creator and a father and a husband like i i'm i'm an active person in the world and I am not suggesting that we become doormats or polucas or punching bags at all. What I'm saying is that you can take all of the same actions. You can be as strategic, as competitive on the athletic field, in the boardroom, in every context. You just don't need to be motivated by hatred and anger.

I don't think that's a clean burning fuel. I think love, and I'm being cheesy and I get it, but properly understood love is a better motivator. So you may be thinking, well, I'm a Marine. I can't be motivated by that. Why not? Why can't you be motivated by love of your country and love of your fellow Marines? Why can't that move you forward instead of hatred? What we know about hatred and anger, while they have their uses, for sure, anger can get

us off the couch. It can help us spot a problem and get motivated. But in terms of a long, an abiding source of energy and fuel, it constricts your, literally constricts your vision. It reduces your peripheral vision. It doesn't help you be maximally creative and flexible. And again, I know it's a provocative word to use, using it in a very broad way. So love for yourself, for your family, for your country, is a much, your brain is in a state where you can handle problems in a much more creative way

that doesn't lead to inner toxicity and burnout. It's a better route to helping you reach your goals. I think I just keep thinking of the saying probably because I've made it my mantra the last couple of weeks for some stuff going on, but just clear as kind, unclear as unkind. And I feel like when my emotions are in the driver's seat, I get really unclear and things are messy and then it's not kind.

And the kindest thing I can do, even if I'm being firm as a parent or at work and I have to have boundaries, if I'm operating from a clear, kind space, then I can deliver it. So that's over and over, clear as kind, unclear as unkind. And yeah, with my faith, through meditation, prayer, different things I know that I do that help ground me. me, I know I can get to that space a lot quicker. And I can know, okay, emotions are here right now. I need to wait till they're in the passenger seat. And then I can proceed. And I'm just thankful getting back in this book has helped me get back into meditation because I told you I did that challenge a couple of years ago and got really into it. And then it kind of, you know, life takes a turn. And you're just, I was thinking when I was doing one of the meditations recently, I was like,

God, why did I ever drop this habit? Like, how did I ever drop it? But I didn't let that keep me from moving forward with it. And so now I feel like I'm starting back on this journey. So thank you so much for 10% happier because it's brought it back in to my life. And I've read The Power of Now and something in the book. And you talk about Eckhart Tollay. I was like, I never thought the things that you think.

And I was like, wow, he's just really going home. on some people, not that you were in a bad, bad way, but did you have, do you, you're laughing. Do you get what I'm saying? Yes. Okay. I want to step back one thing just to what you described about what you've been going through. You didn't say you didn't overshare, but, you know, you just mentioned that you've been

going through some stuff and coming back to clear his kind and coming back to a meditation practice. This is a weird thing to say because we don't know each other, but I just felt proud of you. It just sounds like you're handling this beautifully. So just want to give you some flowers. Well, thank you. And I may want to, I am, this is going to give meditation a shout out too because I had like a Zoom call yesterday of someone that I've worked with that's been involved with like our family for a few years. And she said on the call, she said, you, it's probably been about five years now, I guess.

She said, you are not the same person that I met five years ago. And so thank you for saying that. I shared that not as like, oh, look at me. It's just we were talking earlier about how change is possible and that our brains can change. It absolutely can happen. And I could have stayed stuck in old patterns and continued that behavior. But meditation is a piece to that puzzle that helped me change. And that's why I think it was so shocking to me that for the last year or so I had dropped

that habit. And so now I'm thankful that it is back. So thank you. Just to respond to that, the falling off the wagon, so to speak, on meditation or any other habit is totally normal and nothing's been lost. You can always start again. And so I just, for you and for anybody listening, and whether it's meditation or exercise or healthy eating, whatever it is, it's completely normal to struggle in that way and you can always start again. But to answer the question you were actually asking, which is, you know, in the book, I totally make fun of people, including bestselling authors like Eckhart Tolly and Deepak Chopra. And yeah, I tried to do it in a loving, fun way, but I definitely made fun of them.

And I think, speaking of change, it's probably not the way I would write about people now many years later. And, you know, in the book I'm working on now, like I do kind of make fun of a few people. but it's a little different in my current state. Okay, I just sat and I was like, oh, wow, okay, he went after them. But not, you're right, it was kind of, it was handled well for sure. I just was, maybe it was another thing I found that I appreciated. Like, you're just a normal person.

And you even, anybody that's thought about it or thinks like, oh, that's too boo-boo or whatever, like you come from a perspective of like you were that. Like you, even on your 10-day silent retreat, you're like, this is stupid. I'm leaving, like, you know, and that's me paraphrasing. You didn't say those exact words. But you, that's the vibe I felt. And I, I appreciated that. So, because you're not coming from this, you know, place of, oh, I've always been this way and this is going to be amazing. Like, you're like, this is ridiculous.

And then you sort of, through your own research, realized like, oh, no, actually, this is not ridiculous. It's life changing. Well said, and I appreciate it. Thank you. 10% happier. And like I said, I'm very thankful for the meditation practice at the end of the book. That was a nice touch. All right, Dan, I hear you have a new Audible Original coming out on March 5th.

It's called Even You Can Meditate, Find the Time, the Motivation, and the Right Practice for you. What can we look forward to in this new book? Yeah, I did a little audible book with my friend, Sabine-A. Salassi. She's a highly trained meditation teacher, and we recorded this, had a lot of fun. and it's really kind of a meditation book for people who think they can't meditate. Well, perfect. I'm probably going to check that out because I still am thinking I cannot, but I'm still going to keep trying.

Well, Dan, thank you so much for. That's just another, just to say, that thinking you can't is just another thought. And if you just notice, oh, that's a thought. It's a thought. Then you can go back to your breath. It's already gone, Dan. It's already gone. And I like, you know what I love to visualize and I don't know what,

meditation gave this to me. I can't remember at some point, but I love to visualize when I breathe in, all this ray of light is coming towards me and coming into my hands and I hold them up and I breathe in and I breathe in the light and then it goes through my body on the exhale and outside my toes. Is that Dan approved? I am, I really believe that people should do whatever works for them. I want people to feel better and feel okay with themselves and I think that's going to make a, you know, to be cheesy again, like it'll improve the world. And so, yeah, whatever gets you there, as long as it's not harmful to you or anybody else, I bless it. Well, Dan, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom today. If you are ready to take action on your goals and you want even more

strategies to make it happen, check out 10% happier by Dan Harris or the upcoming Even You Can Meditate on March 5th. All available on Audible. Let's make 2026 your most productive year yet. Thank you so much for having me on and the great questions. I really appreciate it. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

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