The Bobby Bones Show - BONUS: Get Real with Caroline Hobby - Rebecca Minkoff: global fashion mogul talks pivoting her business during COVID, the importance of work-family balance, being inclusive and always following her instincts.

Episode Date: September 26, 2020

It was a thrill to interview Rebecca. I have been a big fan of her massive brand for years. It was awesome to have the chance to get inside her brain and understand what inspired her to go big for her dream when the odds were against her. Plus learning how she has pivoted her brand to focusing sales online during COVID and ended up having one of the brands most successful years was so inspiring. Instead of feeling defeated with the global shutdown due to corona virus and the impact that had on her business, she charted a new course where she could thrive in this new normal. That’s what really stands out to me about Rebecca. She is a trailblazer. She doesn’t wait or want everything to be perfect, she makes good with all the resources she has and then works her ass off and hires an exceptional team to execute her vision. I love that she believes so much in the team mentality. She knows she can’t do it all; she shared with me about what she looks for when she hires an employee and then how she trusts them to do their job. We also talked about how motherhood has changed her outlook on work and what inspired her to launch her SUPERWOMAN podcast featuring some of the most inspiring women from Katie Couric to Maria Sharapova. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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My name is Caroline Hobby. have a podcast called Get Real with Caroline Hobby. I'm so excited to share with you this episode I just recorded with Rebecca Minkoff. She is a worldwide mogul in the fashion industry. She makes incredible handbags, clothes. She got her start by a celebrity going on a tonight show wearing one of her t-shirts that said, I love New York. And the shirt was so amazing, it went viral. And after that, she launched into just the mogul and superstar that she is. She tells me her journey of developing the company, overcoming hurdles, how she's grown it. She also talks about how she has thrived during COVID and learn to pivot and how pivoting is so important to

being an entrepreneur. She then tells me the balance between motherhood and being a business owner and how she walks that line. It is such an engaging, interesting, and inspiring episode. So make sure you check it out. You can hear this episode and any episode of my Get Real podcast anywhere that you can listen to podcasts. So just Google Get Real with Caroline Hobby, anywhere that you listen to your podcast and it will pop up. Thanks for tuning in. The incredible, beautiful, talented trailblazer. I mean, you have just been such a force in women's apparel and fashion for, I mean, since 2001 is when you got kicked off. This is Rebecca Minkoff. And to have you on my podcast is such an honor. You've just done so much. You've just done so

much for the fashion industry. You're such an advocate for women. You have an incredible podcast called Superwoman where you feature absolutely just women who are changing the world and speaking truth. And it's just such an honor to have you on. So welcome, Rebecca. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited when I got the email that you wanted me on. I was like, yay. So thank you. It's good to be here. So you got started, I guess, just to kind of briefly, like, talk about your journey. And to that, like, you started loving fashion in high school because you started designing costume. Is that right? Even before, um, I fell in love with fashion when I was around eight. Um, I was desperate for this dress. I saw in a store window. My mom was like, no, but I'll teach

you how to sew it. And I was really pissed. I was like, just buy me the damn dress woman. Um, And once I figured out that with sewing, I could create anything that I imagined, I just felt this incredible freedom to just sew whatever I could. So she got me some sewing lessons with a local art teacher, and I began to sketch and draw, and I really, I just got hooked. And as a very thin, which I should have really just embraced, thin, painfully thin, you know, teenager, nothing fit me. I didn't have confidence.

you know, I was always trying to drink protein shakes to gain weight. Sewing was an outlet for me to make clothes that fit me and to alter clothes so they would fit me. And so that just became something that I was like, I'm obsessed. I love this. And I had to keep going. When did you decide I'm going to take this to the big time? Like I'm actually not just going to do this for myself as an outlet for my own. desire and my own needs, but I'm actually, I have something here. This is something that I want

to pursue and turn into a business. Like, when did that happen? And how did you do that? Because you have turned this into a huge empire. So I think that I knew I wanted to move to New York. You know, I think it goes back to for Hanukkah. We'd get like a subscription to a fashion magazine as our big present. And I, you know, I would fall in love with fashion. Vogue, Harper's, at the time and just knew that New York was the place to be if you wanted to be a designer. And so when I was 18, my brother had a friend who was a designer in New York and said, you know, can my sister come intern for you? And the designer was like, sure, yeah, she can come up. So I knew that that was where I wanted to start. And then once I started interning and then

eventually got hired by the company after three years, I was like, I'm so tired of listening to someone else. I want to be my own boss. And I'm going to work this hard. I wanted to be my risk, my dime. Not that I had any dimes. Let me just be clear about that. My pennies. So I just started making my own things and enough people would ask me about what are you wearing and my sister-in-law and then my friends that I just was like, oh, people like what I'm creating. Maybe I should start selling it. So I started doing that on the side while still working for this gentleman. And then right after 9-11, fortuitously, or not, really not fortuitously, I sent a shirt to a well-known celebrity on September 9th.

And on the 13th, she wore it on Jay Leno. He said my name. And the rest is definitely not history. But it propelled my name into a state where I could call up almost any boutique and say, hey, I have this clothing line. Will you let me in the door? And then I got the bug, you know. My first store was like, I'll take three pieces on consignment,

which means they only pay you when it sells. And I like ran home. I created these postcards from this shitty printer. And then I went back out to Union Square and I was like, amazing designer, Rebecca Minkoff. And I was standing and hand him out. And then a few days later, he's like, we sold out of the shirts. I want more.

So I just really felt like this was my calling and it didn't matter what it took to do it. So that moment where the celebrity wore your shirt on the Tonight Show, that is a fortuitous moment. But don't you feel like those moments have to happen in one's life in some way or another? When you have the drive, the talent, you've done the work, like, I feel like those moments pop up in someone like your life when you are pursuing this talent so much and this, you're putting it all out there and you're really got something and then that that little magic moment happens but I hear this all the time in people's stories tell me what you think about that and that playing a part in someone's career like yourself I think it plays a huge part and I wanted to spell the notion like a former woman that used to be the president of our company would be like you're just so lucky and I was like

actually I'm not lucky I worked my fucking ass off for this excuse me if I swear I worked my off for this. And it's almost like if you have a pie, it's like, or the ingredients of a pie, like you've worked hard on so many different levels, whether it's making the right connections, you know, knowing where to go. I didn't know where to go. I had to figure it out. No one helped me, you know.

I came across at the time in the pre-internet days, you know, an online social calendar of fashion events. And I was like, I'm going to get myself invited to these events, right? So it's that plus I'm going to go and get a printed directory of boutiques and stores and I'm going to send them something. And then I'm going to, you know, get stuff to my friends and oh, this actress wants something and her expectations are she wants it tomorrow. Cool. I'm going to make sure I fettics her. You know, it's all these vectors that sort of align and then you strike the match, right? And so luck has a little bit to do with it, but it really is all about everything you sort of set up in order for that fire to sort of take off. You've been playing the groundwork in every area that you know how, doing the extra mile.

And that's a thing I feel like I would love to hear your advice to young entrepreneurs, especially women. It is so much, like you said, working your ass off and getting out there and doing it. And you can't just be like, well, where is my lucky break going to fall into my lap? Like, it seems like this person had it so easier. That person got lucky. And it's like, truly, if you hit it and you get a lucky moment like a celebrity wearing your shirt on tonight show and they mentioning you, it's because you put in so much time to get to that moment like you're saying. And I feel like that's what people don't realize a lot of the time.

They don't realize it. And I think when women or anyone approaches being an entrepreneur, like we're so used to just being like, oh, here's my car. Oh, add to cart. Oh, it arrived. Same day. Right? And so they're just like, my career should be the same.

And I'm like, take that notion out of your head. Because guess what? 15 years later, I'm still working my ass off. And that's fine, but just sort of reset your expectations. And not only am I working my ass off, you have things every day that you're like, I never could have imagined that this hole in the boat would be this big. And so I think it's knowing that part of your journey is this roller coaster. That's just how it is.

So sign up for that ride. And know that like when you feel like it's grinding, you're just going up that big hill. And then you get to the top and you get to be like, yes, I never. I never thought I could do this and then something bad happens and you go down. You know, so it's like it's just part of the journey and you can't look at the magazines and the bloggers and just be like it's all perfect because they're all working their ass off too, you know? When did you realize that it's a part of the journey to have the hides and the lows?

Because that took me a little lot of figure out. Like in the beginning, I really got knocked on my ass. Like, and I was like, I would crawl up in the fetal position and be very devastated that like my world had completely ruined and it was over. Yep. And then something else would come in or another like opportunity or like another road would present itself. And it's like, oh. And then finally it clicked after, you know, about 10 years of for me, it was like, it was like 10 years before I finally figured out that that's just a part of it.

When did you realize that? I realized that I think like you over similar things. I remember I'll never forget when we were doing about a million in sales probably more than 10 years ago. Our bank said to us, when you hit five million, it'll get really easy. You'll be profitable. You'll have money for things. You'll be able to pay your bills on time. And I was like, we just have to get to $5 million. And we hit $5 million. And I was like, we're just going to coast. And it was like not making money, not profitable. Same challenges, you know, and I was like, oh, maybe this is what this is. And then I had these fantasies, you know, when you saw these companies become billion dollar brands. And I was like, oh, that person must have it easy. She probably just puts her foot up all the day and scrolls through Facebook.

And then you hear, you know, in their investor reports, if they're a public company or you listen to them on a podcast and you're like, oh, that stuff is still hard. And they're still, they don't have all the answers. So I think it was like this slow awakening of like, oh, this is the ride and I'm going to sign up for it

until it's over. But I also think you sort of, you know, you gain muscle, right, by tearing it apart. And then it sort of grows back together. And I think as an entrepreneur, all these, you know, I sort of look to all these challenges as muscle tears. And each time I'm stronger and each time I bounce back quicker. And so that is helpful to sort of have that mindset of like, okay, here's another one,

but I'm going to grow from this in some way. Even what's happening with COVID, right? Right now in our company, 70% of our business just evaporated. right, in smoke. And it's like how- stores, because a lot of your businesses actually, you're like in 900 stores, is that right? Something like that?

We were, yeah. I don't even know the number now, but, you know, 70% of our business has evaporated and sort of like, how do you become a direct-to-consumer company, which we were, but wasn't our main focus, and how do you sort of thrive?

And, you know, we're up 7%, which I don't think most companies can say. And it's like, okay, that was a big muscle tear. And we're, you know, we're going to come back stronger. for it. And how, it's like you said, a hole in the boat. So that's like a muscle tear, a hole in the boat. How do you approach that? Like what, when COVID hit in, you have such a, I guess it's a consumer based product where people go in and try it on and do all that, like that was your, your main part.

How did you navigate that? Because that's a big deal. You're running a huge operation. Yeah. So right away, we knew that with most of these stores closing, and you can no longer go in and some stores not even shipping if they didn't have warehouses that were allowed to we said okay we're an e-commerce company let's think like an e-commerce company what would that be you know i've always enjoyed a really strong connection with my customer but how do i even get closer you know is it the how-toes is it the fun videos is it those quotes that distract you on a sunday is it you know me on instagram live like how do we become your best friend um if we haven't done that already how do we talk to you

you real. So we're not sending you emails that have nothing to do in our tone deaf for what's happening. So it was really all about getting into the customer, not just her mindset, but I'm in the same mindset. I'm not on some, you know, I'm not on David Geffen's boat detached from society. And being vulnerable, right? Sharing those struggles too. Not like for me, but like, hey, I'm homeschooling my kids too and I'm trying to work and, you know, I'm hiding and taking calls from my bathroom. not today, but I was for many months. And so I think the customer was like, yes, you're choosing to be inspiring and not, you know, go down during these dark times, but you're also real.

So I think that that really helped. And then, you know, also product cycles, like we're talking a lot about nylon and totes because where are you going right now? You're going to the grocery store, you know, you need a big bag. So I think it's also knowing what to communicate to your customer when. Like we're not selling a going out bag. We know you're not going to the club right now. Yeah.

And I appreciate that. I saw one of your Instagram videos that you did for like the summer drop. You're like walking out your front door and you have on all these outfits that are super comfortable that we can wear in COVID lifestyle. And then the last one, you're like wrapped up in a towel, like taking a vodka bottle. And I'm like, yes, that is life. Like you want to have these cute outfits to be comfy in. But then also can we just be in our robe and cry a little bit and drink some vodka on the front board? Totally. I told my husband I found the perfect song to cry to like when I'm running,

but I was like, it's so hard to cry and run because you're out of breath, but you're also crying. But it's the only time I'm like alone away from my kids wanting that release. Do you just feel overwhelmed? Because like you, I absolutely love how you have taken a very difficult situation and you figured out how to navigate it and make it good for you. And you've continued your brand and you've continued to work with the times. But then also do you just get that feeling of just complete overwhelmed and heaviness of just like what is happening? Like how are we going to navigate this wild world? How do you deal with that? Yeah. I mean, my having my, uh, I haven't figured out a true outlet. I have a lot of nightmares. I think my my heaviness

comes from the fact that okay, I know for now we can exist as a big. business. We're not going to go out of business, right? So we know that. We know how to run a business during this time. I think my heaviness comes from the fact of like, are my kids going to have to wear masks all day in school? Or I just got a letter from the head of the school saying minimal movement within school and face masks. And I'm like, okay, so I'm putting my kids in a prison and they can't breathe, right? Not that I don't think that masks should be worn, but not for eight hours a day, right. So especially for growing kids. So I just, I get heavy when I'm like, what future are we building for our kids? And why isn't anyone thinking out of the box or they're outside school?

I don't know. I'm not, you know, so my heaviness mostly comes from them. And wanting them not for this to be a mark on their lives that they're like, oh, that's bad times, you know. And I also think my heaviness comes from the brink. breakdown of societal bonds. Like everyone's scared of each other. And that's terrible. You know, when people cringe at you in the grocery store, you're like, like, I didn't think that humans could begin to treat each other this way.

And that scared me. Because if we're scared of each other just with this, you know, how bad does it get? So that's the heaviness. And I don't know that I have a solution. And I think about it every night. Yeah. Not to take this to a dark place. No, but it's just the truth of the matter.

And that's how I feel, too. Like, I wake up every day and I remind myself of all my blessings and I'm so thankful. And I am so grateful for this life. But then it's like there's just, I feel like the world is just completely upside down. And maybe that's what had to happen. Maybe like we were so, things needed to change so much that it just got to a point where it all hell broke loose, you know? We can't hide from any of it anymore.

And so I'm like, what are we supposed to be learning here and how do we navigate it? But I have those moments too where I just get like so overwhelmed. with it all that I don't know how to navigate. And being a mom, I'm a new mom, you have three kids. And I'm reading that being a mom has like profoundly just impacted everything about your life, like from your career to how you think. So you're talking about your kids in this time. I get it.

But how has being a mother navigated your whole experience since the day your first child was born? Like how did that change you? I think it changed me in a couple ways. I thought of myself as very self-aware, selfish in terms of pre-kids. I could do what I wanted to do when, sleep in, you know. And even getting pregnant, I only accelerated that in terms of my timeline because I really wanted my kids to have a great relationship with my parents. And I'm like, I'm not getting any younger.

They're not getting any younger. I'm not ready to get pregnant, but fuck it. And so the whole pregnancy, I didn't want to verbalize it because I didn't want the baby to hear me, but I would like text my husband. He'd be sitting right next and we're like, I can't believe we did this. I deeply regret this decision. I don't know if I'm ready to be a mother and he'd be like, you know, and then he, I wouldn't let him, I wouldn't let him reply because I didn't want his words for the, so whatever. So cut to the baby comes out and I've, and I call it like the fourth dimension of love. Like I didn't know I could love with something so

selflessly. And you, you, you become. at least for me, you start thinking of more than yourself. There's a world out there that you want to be better. There's an environment out there that you want to be like fresh air and not an ocean polluted with plastic. And you just start making decisions. I think my interest in health became more pronounced during that time because I was like, I want to be optimized for health and I want my kids to be healthy. And then how do I structure my business? Because I don't want to be a mom that doesn't raise my kid. There's plenty of moms that are fine with that, but I wasn't that person, you know? Yeah. So I had to structure my business in a way and really invest in teams that could

like take the baton and run because I wanted to leave at 6 p.m. And I wanted them to leave if, you know, they want to leave at 6 p.m. So, um, you know, my brother's my co-founder. He chose not to leave at 6 p.m. every night. And we had to have honest conversations where I'd be like, yo, I'm getting home to my kids. I want to be there for dinner. I want to be there for dinner. And for bath, for bedtime. If you don't want to do that, cool. But we're going to differ in that opinion and that has to be okay. And so really trying to not only lead as an example, but allow that for my staff to feel

that way too. It wasn't just I'm the boss. I get to have these perks. It's like, just go home. It's okay. We're not caring cancer. So I think that sort of making that shift and then slowly it took me a long time, like don't do email on the weekends, you know, unless you have to.

If something's urgent and like your website crash is cool. But just trying to allow for time to be away from work and not be so burnt out, it's really changed my mental state. I can be present as a mom. Obviously, Fashion Week, there's times where I'm working late. I'm distracted and I'm on my phone. But for the most part, I've really tried to put in those boundaries and test them. Like I've had, I have three kids now.

So with each one, you might get a little. bit more like where are your new boundaries and like get uncomfortable try something know that that's too much or know that that's too little and then you know what to say no and yes to so so i always tell people like go on that two-week business trip and see how you feel you'll never want to do it again or maybe you'll be like i want to go on two-week business trips all the time you have to find your balance what does it feel like to you when it's a no when you feel like nope that's the boundary i hit it i'm not doing that like what does that feel like so i definitely give fomo I think when it's a work-related event, is it staying out late?

Am I going to meet someone that's going to make a huge impact on my company? Could I connect that person another time? Could we have coffee during the day? Or is this just a good time and it was a waste? So I sort of look to everything. I'm going to stay out late. I'm going to miss that time with my family. What's the get from it?

Totally. And if there isn't a get, I got to find one to make it worth it. yeah i totally get that yeah if you were i mean you might have this you might have a mission statement if you were going to put a mission statement for your whole vibe existence with career family what would it be like what is your motto that you go by so we had i had done this branding exercise with this company and we sort of distilled down like what was that thing that propelled me to do it. And sometimes I say this and women are like, but I'm not like that so I can't. But I think it is doing it anyways. And there was a fearlessness to moving here where I didn't consider what could

happen. I didn't consider the odds. There was a fearlessness to starting my company. And people are like, but you had so much to lose. I'm like, I had nothing. Therefore, I had nothing to lose, Except I was going to have to go back home and like sleep on my old bedroom and like regroup, right? If that's it, you know, okay. So, you know, even when several years ago there was a potential that our bank might seize our company and they would own it. And I was like, what am I losing here? Okay, they can't take my family and my children.

And if I have to start over, I know how to start over as an entrepreneur. Not that that would be like, oh, cool. But like, you know, so I think it's a fearlessness and even when you're scared, you're doing it anyway. So this isn't a message of like, I'm never scared. It's like, oh, that's scary. Cool. Let's do it anyways. What is there to lose?

Not much, you know. So I guess that. Well, I guess now, though, you do have a lot to lose as far as your career. You built a huge career. Do you still, are you still able? Like, I guess what you're saying you are. Are you still able to navigate in that what I have to lose mentality? because there kind of is a lot there.

There's a lot there, but I feel like you're not losing how the customer feels about you. You're not losing that community that you've built. You're not losing all the relationships you've made. Like if we were to have lost our company in COVID, I have no doubt that I could have sprouted up with something new and been like, hey, everyone, need a little help. You know, get the word out there. We've launched X. and do it again or do something else, you know. I think that when you're an entrepreneur,

you have a skill that you're always able to go back and start over and never forget what that feels like because that's valuable, you know. It's like when I started the podcast, right? It was starting something new. I did it all myself. No one helped me. And I had to figure it out.

But I knew as an entrepreneur, or the knowing how to figure something out. And so once you have that, that's better than any amount of money in the bank. Because you're like, oh, I know I can figure this out. The Bobby Bone Show is proud to be supported by Grand Canyon University, an affordable, private, nonprofit Christian university based in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona. They say higher education is outdated, irrelevant. Well, GCU doesn't settle for the status quo.

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What inspired you to start the podcast? because it's not like you didn't have enough going on. But now you're like, I'm going to add value to women's life, because you have access to incredible women. You have on your podcast, there's CEOs, there's superstars. You have all types of women who are doing incredible things. And to me, like, your podcast is a gift to women because you don't need to do that.

Like, you don't need to take that time to do that. But because you have access to these women, you all have these incredible conversations that you're sharing. And I mean, that's just, I consider that a true gift. What encouraged you to do that? So the fashion world, it's getting a little better, but it's very insular. It's very clicky. It's very snobby.

And I was so sick of these people. And I was so sick of the lack of sending the ladder down. And I came from the outside. I was not accepted into, like, Lavo, Anna's world. And so I guess whether it's a chip on my shoulder, but I always wanted to be included. because I hated that feeling. And so I started throwing these dinners in my store of just getting women from all sorts of other industries together and how could we support each other and talk. And then I was like, oh, wait, that's exclusive because my customer wasn't invited.

How do I invite her to this? So let me do fireside chats at my store and invite my customer. And we started having, you know, 90 women showed up, but I could only let in 72 because the fire marshal would come. And I was like, okay, how do I get this bigger, right? How do I amplify this? And the podcast was sort of the next natural way to do that. So I launched at the end of 2018. I was scared.

I was like learning how to edit via YouTube videos and the mics to get. And that's when I was like, all right, I know what I know how to do. And someone else is going to edit this. I'm not going to do that part. But I'll do the rest. I'll find the talent. You know, I'll reach out to them. I'll book them.

I'll interview them. No one's prepping me. And that was fun to get dirty again. You know, get your hands truly dirty. Like, do all the grunt work that you know what it takes to become an entrepreneur and to have a podcast. And then the women have been like therapy for me, you know, like I learned something with every podcast and I'm inspired and I'm almost rejuvenated because they're giving me something too. So as much as it's great for everyone, I'm right there with them. Like, oh, that's great.

I feel better now. What have you taken away from your podcast? What are some of the lessons that you've gathered? Oh, there's so many. One of mine, it's with Patty Sellers. You know, she's like, if women talked about money as much as we talk about sex, we would be so much richer. You know, so instead of complaining about, you know, your sex life at dinner,

you're like, oh, I invested in the stock. And this is what happened. You know, if that or. Instead of like, you know, my go-to at any event is, oh, your kids, I have kids. How old are they? But instead it was like, you know, should I invest in this new company? Should I give them $25,000 or whatever it is? Like if that was what we talked about, this probably this gender pay gap would be a lot smaller.

That's what men talk about. All the time. Yeah. All the time. Yeah. They're not like, oh, look at this cute picture of my son eating pudding, you know? They're not all. So that was something that I thought was just great.

I think that I've asked all these women to be really vulnerable in the podcast because I think I want to showcase their hardest moments, their biggest challenges and how they've overcome them or not. And so that's refreshing. And I felt like it's okay to be more vulnerable too with my staff on social. um so those are just two and then just fun ones like the katie currick one was one of my favorite ones because she's just epic and i can't believe she did that podcast with me so do you ever have that moment where you're kind of like a wow like this is crazy on having a conversation with this person yes all the time especially the bigger ones you know what i'm uh not everyone feels this comfortable but i usually will not prep to the

interview because then I'm authentically intrigued in it and I don't have to worry like my if you go back to the very beginnings I have my sheet of paper and I'm like looking up at each question and I'm not listening I'm just like okay she's done talking so I'm going to ask my next question but as I got more comfortable and I was like screw it I'm not going to research these people then I'm genuinely interested and then I'm going on that journey with my listener and I think it for me it creates a better interview I love that I totally agree when I first started to I have like a printed sheet every single thing I could find about everyone's career and I would just like be like checking it off and finally I interviewed stormy warren who's a big radio um personality and country music and he's like he I walked in with my paper and he's like why don't you just turn that paper upside down and let's just talk and I was like no I can't I can't do it and I agree I love the fluidity of it you love to talk about women and them overcoming some of their hardest moments so I was I also am the same What is something that was a really hard moment for you that kind of defined you?

Do you want me to go how many years back or how many months because I could pick so many apples from that tree? I mean, as many times you want to pick? Okay. I'll never forget one of the first big orders I got when I say big. It was like 10 bags. I shipped it myself and I sort of loosely wrapped some. paper that you might buy for your kids like craft paper around the bags and I shipped it to this

really incredible boutique in the west village in new york that was really known for launching new brands and i got the check and i was like oh my god i don't know whatever two thousand dollars and the owner called me and he's like you need to come down here now there's a big problem and the pit at the bottom of my stomach was huge and i get there he's like this isn't how you ship bags to customers. This is completely unprofessional. And I was shaking at that moment. He's like, can you imagine that someone's going to pay at the time my bags were more expensive, like $495 for a bag that arrives like this? Where's your dust bag? Where's the wrap? You know, how have you protected the hardware? And I was just like, and instead of saying, here are your goods back? I'm going to

cancel your check. He was like, I'm going to teach you how to do this. Wow. And so that was just a lesson in you know, A, be more professional in your shipping people things, but also like, um, take those moments, not as criticism or, you know, look what he did to me or he was being mean, but really like reflect on how, you know, this person had the opportunity to, like, not pay you and cancel your check, um, but support you. Um, so that was like one of like, okay, from now on I have to do it the right way. There's no, there's no quick cheat to some things. There was another time period where we were our first overseas factory experience.

We were making it in the same factory as Kate Spade. And we did not have a quality control person. And the Chinese workers there didn't read English. And they put Kate Spade hardware and Rebecca Minkoff hardware on the same bag. And since we went right out to the customer, no one checked it. And the customer on this popular bag forum started like having a feel day with like a hybrid name. Like there's Benefer, but there was Quebec Spankoff, which is the hybrid of Kate and Rebecca. And making fun of us.

This is kind of a big deal right here. Huge. Huge. I was like every single bag that we just shipped, our first, you know, overseas experience is Quebec Spankoff. So I was looking at do all these bags get returned? Are my relationships with all the stores ruined, right? And I was like, how do I turn this into a positive? Like, how do I get control back of the situation?

And so I was like, congratulations everybody, Willy Wonka. If you have this bag, you know, if you can find a bag, send it back and not only really get a new one, but you'll get a credit. And I just made up a way to like take the negativity and say, yes, we messed up. The good news is if you help me clean out the market. of these bags, I'll reward you for it. And so it turned what could have been a terrible situation, not into a positive, but a manageable situation. So I think you always have to look at when that hole is in your boat. Like, what are you going to use to cover it up and how resourceful

can you be as an entrepreneur to sort of get that water out? It seems to me that you are so customer driven. Like I was watching some videos. I mean, They were from like 2005, I think, or like early days of you and your brother talking about it. And y'all knew exactly who your customer was, what you were catering to, what you were wanting for them. And I just feel like that is a crucial part of running a successful business of knowing who is your customer. And I feel like you guys were also heading edge of using social media and media in general. Like in your dressing rooms, you had an option to scroll a screen to pick other. items to try on in a dressing room, like you're just always thinking outside of the box.

So how important is your customer to you and how have you figured out who your customer is? So I think from day one, it was really clear that we wanted to be in touch with our customer. Again, you know, the old route, if you close your eyes and go back 15 years, it wasn't how it is now. You know, fashion back then was Anna likes you, Barney's likes you, you're the It designer, and you get this like propulsion from that power. So it is an excellent club. The old way is very exclusive. And like you have to be a chosen one.

Anointed, yes. She has her like magic wand and then then you're good. Dang. So all that is real. Like I just see all that in the movies, but it's like real life out there. Yes. It's real life.

It was real life. It's better now. So I feel like, you know, when we launched social media was in its nature. recent form. I came across, I got a Google alert that existed about these women on a forum. It was called the first blog and they had a forum talking about my bags. And I was like, I know the answers to all these questions. I should make an account and answer them. And it was just, there wasn't a thought or a strategy behind it. So I made a username. I started talking and they couldn't believe

it was me. I had to verify it was me. And we started this dialogue. And I was interested like, what do you like? Why do you like it? Oh, you want this bad? Cool. Go get 20. of you together and we'll make it. Wow. It was so early that ownership to your customer. You're like, you love this. We'll serve you in this way. Wow, that's amazing.

Yeah, I mean, it was early crowdsourcing, essentially. And we had interventions from stores. Like, we don't think we can care you if you're going to talk to your customer. We don't know. Like, you're dirtying yourself. Like, we had intense conversations. And then, you know, Facebook opened up. And then Instagram, we just said, okay, we're going to be wherever she is.

because this is our way to communicate with her. And then, you know, pre-kids, I would travel to 30 cities a year and go meet my customer in department stores. So it was our way of like, let's just have a tight-knit relationship. Now this is normal. But let's just pour the coal, I guess, on all the different forms we can talk to her. And then you get to know her, not because you, like, did an analytic survey. You see her, you meet her, you talk to her.

And then you just are like, okay, good. this is who she is and we've made plenty of mistakes believe you me like wrong aesthetic wrong price point um are you still there yeah okay i'm gonna take my said the batteries low okay um wrong aesthetic wrong price point like trying to be cool and fashiony like we've done all the wrong things but i think that every time we go back to who she is who's that girl you know she's someone who comes to us for these milestone moments within her life that are big deals to her. She can finally afford something more than fast fashion. She gets a raise.

She gets a job. She has a baby. She gets divorced. She's an affair. Like all these, you know, things that happen to women. And she can buy our product and eat or buy our product and pay rent. And we stay within now a very clear aesthetic. So you know if you're coming to us, we're a little bit of bohemian, we're a little bit of rock.

So like that's sort of the aesthetic. And then everything else is sort of layered on the brand pillars of being fearless or supporting women or being inclusive because Lord knows I know what it feels like to not be included. So how did that feel when you finally hit the moment where you're like, I know who our consumer is? I know who she is. Do you remember that moment or was it just an evolution? I think it was an evolution. I mean, there's been times where we're so clear on who she is, but also as I've gotten older,

sometimes that customer changes, like, for a long time, my brother and our former president had this theory, like, freeze Rebecca at 27. And I was like, but I'm 32 now, and I have a kid and I want different things. And it's really hard for me to keep talking to that girl at 27 only. Let's talk to the 18 year old, the 25 year old, the 30 year old, right? And finally, we've unfrozen her as of like four years ago.

And the difference is night and day because now I can talk up and down to those experiences instead of just this like one life stage. And guess what happens? If we only talk to you at 27, then when you're 35 and you're making a lot more money, you go buy the more expensive bag because you're like, ugh, she only talked to me when I was 27, I felt like this. But now if I'm spanning like all these life journeys,

I'm hoping that, you know, she comes with me on that journey and she wants to keep up with that story. Do you think that they're wanting you to freeze it because they knew that work? That was something that was successful. When really that, like you said, it's actually limited.

but do you think it's just fear-based? And like, how did you push through that and be like, no, we've got to unfreeze her? We had a lot of heated arguments, a lot of disagreements. I think they got some data that said, like, this is your core customer. And she still might be, but we need to talk up and down high and low. You know, I'm going to be 40 this year. I got to talk to my 40-year-olds, you know, and my 18-year-olds. So what's happening now is both 18 and 40 are growing faster than 27.

So like it just opened up a new base for us, you know, two new bases. So I think that it could have been fear based and I let them do it for a long time. And people were like, well, you're the base of the company. How do you let them? Well, when you have business partners, it's not always, you know, my way or the highway. What do you look for in an employee? because the fact that you are such a hands-on mom and you are such a hands-on business woman, in order to be the hands-on mom, you have to hire people that you really rely on, like you said.

What are the key traits that you look for in an employee? Your education and where, what fancy university is barely important to me, it's do you look me in the eye, do you shake my hand not weekly and not turning it over? like men do, right? Some men do. Or aggressive women who are like, I'm the dominant one here. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Whenever your hand is like turned over, that person's trying to let you know that they're dominating you.

Stop it. Oh my gosh. I'll never view a handshake the same now. Okay. I'm glad that's amazing to know. Okay. So, oh, yeah. So look me in the eye. Good communication. Someone that's willing to do hard. work that again within within you know an employee they also think that they're going to be promoted a senior director in three months and don't have to work that hard so someone who doesn't have any of those sort of ideas that takes the ball and runs with it I'll never forget we have a friend who has a very successful brand and for whatever reason he gives us a lot of free

advice and he was and prior to us I wanted to be the den mother the den mother and if someone was sad or like, I'm, I'm not happy. And I'm like, oh, come cry with me. And he's like, these people are hired to do a job. Either they take a load off your shoulders and they get out. This isn't, you know, you're not here to be a therapist. You're not here to be the mom that's like the cuddle, open your arms. Yes, you can be kind and thoughtful, but you're not here to like take someone's entire

shitstorm of their life and be the solver of it, right? they're there to say hey I got this I'm going to run and so I really look for that in all of our staff now like do they own their area do they make it better do they improve it cool are they complaining are they just sulking are they letting whatever's happening in their life interrupt their work then they don't they don't get to stay because you can't grow business if you just have a bunch of victims yeah and that is so true especially being a woman like you said a dead mother a nurturing woman I feel the same way like I I feel like I feel like I take everyone's feelings and I want to help you thrive and become happy and have a purposeful life and all that stuff.

But it is a job and this is your creation. This is your baby. This is your dream. And if you're spending time and money to hire someone, they need to add to your dream. That's so. Yes. This is not a handout, you know? And it doesn't.

And again, then people will be like, oh, you must be a mean. No. Like, I can still be nice and understanding. But, like, you came to get a paycheck. I'm paying you that money. You give something back in return. Have you, do you struggle with firing people or are you pretty good at it at this point? Well, thankfully, I don't have to do it anymore.

They don't want me in the room when I'm fired. There's people that I wanted to fire that our chief counsel just said, you know what, you don't get to be in the room. It's my job. You need to stay forward facing and, you know, so I can do it. it's not easy. I don't think that ever gets easy. It's only easy if someone

cheated you or, you know, like we had someone that stole a bunch of stuff. Like it was very satisfying to fire them. But outside of that, it's hard. It's, you know. Yeah. Same feeling with someone quits. It's like, oh, man,

you didn't want to stay here for the rest of your life and work with me? Why? Hi. So you have good press and you have so many positive things swirling around you how do you deal with the moments of bad press and the moments that really gut wrench you in the public eye

well i guess it's good that my brother is my co-founder because i can call him and bent like we had a piece of negative press in 17 we had a a shipping logistics nightmare because we changed warehouses and we messed up 10,000 people's orders oh yeah so that was awful And then when I publicly apologized, this fashion publication, you know, took it one step further and had to write about the whole debacle. I was like, thanks for, you know, helping me out when I'm on my knees. It sucks. It feels like you've been broken up with. It feels like everyone hates you.

But I just said, I'm just going to keep not just apologizing, but showing my customer that I'm going to solve this until it's better and be honest with her. And so, you know, for that particular thing, I kept apologizing. I kept sending out sorry notes. I kept sending out, like, gifts for everyone whose Christmas order I ruined until it was better. And I also was like, real. I was like, dude, there was a glitch in our system from a Chinese character put into the wrong part of the zip code. And it messed up 10,000 orders. I'm totally sorry.

technology like never could have predicted that and like once people knew the real story they're like oh okay she's not trying to fuck me on Christmas so I just think like a meancrop mean co she's the old scrooge of Christmas so I just I mean it differs with everything but I think that you can get bad press for not doing anything and people just attack you like cancel culture is huge right now and I think people's instinct is to retreat. But I feel like knocking on wood, if that would ever happen, I would just speak the truth. Good or bad, I'd be like, this is the truth, and that's all I can do.

And take responsibility for whatever it is. So with all the amazing things in your life, all the journey that you've been on, what does success look like to you? Okay, so that has totally changed. I don't know about you, but on your path as an entrepreneur, you know, my first measure of success is, I don't have to call my bank to see if I have enough money to go out to eat tonight. Like that was like, oh, I don't have to check because I have more than $100 in my account.

Then it was, oh, my God, my husband and I who just got married, we don't need to have roommates anymore. You know, like, how do we pay our rent? and then it became stuff just like oh we can take a vacation and we can pay for a vacation so like all that you know has has come full circle and that success to me is like that I can stop working at six you know that I don't have to check email on the weekends um you know that I can be with my family and and enjoy them and that's probably what success is to me now and it's and it's also not just oh I sell handbags and that's all All I do. Success to me is I get to have incredible conversations with women on my podcast. I get to have an incredible community with the founder community I created. I get to have, you know, touch people that I've admired for so long.

Like when I get invited to something and I'm like, whoa, I got to be here at this dinner with Katie Couric or whoever. Like, okay, that's success. So what is the secret to? a happy marriage and raising kids. I don't know anything about your marriage or your home. I'm just, I'm seeing you put another perspective. I'm like, you are a boss in every perspective and you have it all. So how do you,

what is the secret to that? Well, I haven't had sex in about six weeks, so I'll say that. It happens. We're like, when and how is this going to happen? Because I'm sleeping with my daughter and you're sleeping with the boys

and the bedtimes are all messed up. And like, I keep getting my period. So. Kelly's a fan of the ass. So I think communication. We both adopted the idea. I have so many girlfriends that when something is wrong within their marriage, they're like nattering to their girlfriends about it.

And I just never understood like, this is your life partner. This is your person that's going to raise your kids with you. Like if you have an issue, take it up with your husband. or your partner, not your girlfriends who, nothing good's going to come back. Right. So I think if I have a problem, I immediately address it,

or I show signs that something is wrong that he knows well enough now that he's like, what's up? I think we also, we never truly had like the talk about equality within the households, but there are a lot of people who expect it to be equal and then it's not.

And then they get resentful. So I always say, like, set your boundaries, you know, in our household, everything's equal. When it comes to laundry, diaper changes, cooking, cleaning, whatever, it's down the middle. So we never have to have those arguments because one of us always knows, like, oh, you're making breakfast, I'll cook lunch, whatever it is. But I think communication is the biggest thing. And then setting, you know, as things in your life change, your needs and wants change, like be upfront with your partner about that. Like, I was like, I don't know if I can sleep in the same bed with you anymore because you move too much and I need to sleep.

You know, but like he didn't take it like, at least I was telling him why I'm now sleeping with my daughter because she doesn't move. So I think we're just, you know, you go through different things and you just got to get them off your chest. Right. Yes, I love that. And it sounds to me like you guys assume the best in each other. And so it's like you just navigate the seasons of your life. I think that's been crucial for me and like all relationships. My family, my family, my. my friends, my husband, obviously being a mom. It's just to assume that these people that you've chosen to link up with in your life are wanting the best for you. And so when I can go in with that sort of mentality, it's like, okay, we're a team

and we both want to win. We both want each other to succeed. We want to succeed together. So that's been a huge game changer for me. It's just like these people want the best for me. I'm the best for them. So going with that view. Yep, totally.

And I think that calling out people on their shit, like if he does stuff I don't like, I'm just like, not cool, buddy. And he'll do the same to me. And I think you have to have that honesty within a marriage for it to work. Totally agree. What have you learned from being a mother? About yourself. That I'm stronger than I ever thought I would be capable of mentally and physically.

that there is more of you to give than you think. Like you could think, oh my God, how will I have a business and kids and a social life and whatever? I'm not saying I have all that figured out, but there is more like, even when you have more kids, like you're like, oh, could I really give that much love to another human? And it just kind of grows, even though there's one of you. And I definitely feel overwhelmed. I've definitely yelled at my kids way more than I ever have in quarantine.

but I think that knowing that you have the ability to sort of have octopus arms, you know, even when there's just one of you. I love that. Rebecca, I am so thankful and honored that you came on my podcast. You are such a bright light to this world. Thank you. It really means the world to me that you come chat with me. I always wrap up my interviews with one question, and it's very vague.

So however you feel inclined to answer. Okay. Leave your light. And what do you want people to know? What do I want people to know? To look for the silver linings. I think now is a time where we need to pull ourselves up out of the doldrums and look for, you know, my dad said this to me last night.

He's like, it's not what the universe is doing to you. It's what it's doing for you. And I was like, that's a deep thought from my dad. But what did it give me? It gave me time back with my kids that I would never. get you know, wouldn't normally get it. It got me to see my two-year-old's language bloom. It gave me the ability to think with what is my company and how do I want it to be.

So like what is the, you know, it gave me the ability to connect with people and more women and have important conversations. And so like I have to just keep looking at what is the universe doing for me. I appreciate you. Thank you so much for coming on. joining me. You are bad ass in every sense of the word. Thank you for having me. You're awesome.

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