The Bobby Bones Show - George Birge: Trusting God When Nothing Works

Episode Date: February 20, 2026

This week on The Upload, host Brooke Taylor and co-host Pastor Mark Evans sit down with country artist George Birge for a powerful, honest conversation about faith, surrender, and what it really looks like to trust God’s timing in an industry driven by pressure, comparison, and success. George opens up about his journey from playing small shows and grinding it out in a country duo to questioning whether he had made the right decision chasing music at all. With vulnerability and clarity, he shares how seasons of waiting, disappointment, and nearly walking away became the very foundation God used to shape his character, strengthen his marriage, and prepare him for success he wasn’t ready to handle at the start. Throughout the conversation, George reflects on the tension between ambition and surrender, learning to “give up pretending” while staying faithful to the mission. He talks about the refining process that happens below the surface, the unseen work God does in private long before anything rises above the water and why integrity, family, and faith must come before fame. The episode dives deep into trusting God’s plan, navigating comparison, understanding real versus transactional relationships, and wrestling with temptation in the spotlight. George also shares how building a Christ-centered culture on the road; from praying with his band to prioritizing his role as a husband and father, has given him freedom, peace, and clarity in a demanding season of life. For anyone struggling with control, anxiety, delayed dreams, or wondering if God is listening, George offers wisdom on praying boldly for the desires of your heart while releasing the outcome to God. His story is a reminder that success will never fill the void, but surrender will and that God’s kindness often shows up in the delays we don’t understand at the time. 🎧 This episode is for anyone in a season of waiting, refining, or learning how to trust God without pretending and discovering peace on the other side of surrender. Follow The Upload:📸 Instagram — @theuploadlife🎥 TikTok — @theuploadlife🔗 Listen on iHeartRadio — The UploadSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, y'all. I'm George Burge. You know, I would see people around me move to town and have a hit song. Songs placed on TV shows or big tour offers or, you know, opportunity to write with the biggest writers in town. And I would start to question, like, what do I not have that they have? God provides you with blessings when he feels like you're ready to handle them. I think that God was making sure that I was really sound.

I can genuinely say, like, without a foundation of faith, like, I wouldn't be here to today and this is the upload. Well, y'all, I'm excited for this conversation. He's a husband. He's a father. He is an amazing country artist. And I'm just excited to learn more about just a little bit of our friend George Burge. Welcome to the upload. Brooke, thank you so much for having me in. I'm glad to be here. I love your voice because I feel like you can hear him smile.

Like those who are not watching the video when you speak, I feel like I can just hear joy in your voice. Life is pretty good. I don't have a lot to frown about these days. So I am genuinely happy to be here. I love that. we always start the conversation just kind of learning about what your faith is like and what faith means to you as a human being. I think it's foundation for me. We, especially in the music industry, live in a world where you're judged every day. And there are times of like insane prosperity. And then there's times where it's just like scarce and, you know, the people that you thought were friends are fleeting. And, you know, there's, you know, dry periods where maybe your music's not working or even on the come up, you know, it's like you're, you're out there. just kind of trying to make something out of nothing.

And without that foundation of, like, trust that God's got you and that you're on the right path and that, you know, his timing is perfect, a lot of times you can start questioning or trying to force things. And I can genuinely say, like, without a foundation of faith, like, I wouldn't be here today. Totally. And I know that your story, we're going to dive more deep into it. But even starting in a duo and then kind of going along, doing your own thing, that's got to be a big, like, faith roller coaster for you trying to figure out what you're going to do.

Yeah, so I moved to town in a country duo called Waterloo Revival, and I had never thought that I would play music for a living. I always just did it out of passion. I loved it. And so we had a little band, and we were playing on 6th Street down in Austin, and I had a job and, you know, intention of, I bought a house. My wife and I, you know, were building a life together, and all of a sudden I got an offer for my first record deal to move to Nashville. And so that was even that having faith of like maybe this is what I've called to do. Like I've always wanted to play music for a living. I've got my job that I was supposed to get, but I'm not that happy.

Like, God, I'm going to trust you. I'm going to quit my job and move to Nashville and I'm going to take a shot on this record deal. And so that's what we did. We packed up a U-Haul. I quit my job. My wife quit her job. And we moved up to Nashville. And we chased it for a couple of years as a couple, probably six years as a duo.

And it just didn't happen. We were putting out songs and they would get a little bit of huge. heat and then they would kind of, you know, fall off and nothing would happen. We'd go tour and there'd be 20, 30 people there at shows. And, you know, I was grinding it out, trying to write songs that would connect with people. I was trying to figure out, you know, why other people around me were having success and I wasn't. And it was definitely like, you know, a time where I kind of question everything. Like, did I throw away a life and a career that I should have been having to go chase his dream, did I make the wrong decision? I made my wife quit her job and moved to Nashville.

You know, what are we doing out here? And it was one of those things that had I not had, A, her support and B, just like the trust in like God's timing is perfect, I probably would have quit. And I did try to quit a couple times. But it ended up working out like it was supposed to. Take us through some of those moments of questioning because I feel like we all question day to day. There's always, you know, things that are happening in our lives where we're like, why this doesn't make sense. Yeah. In those moments of questioning, what were you feeling? You know, I think it's really hard to take your ego out of stuff. And so, you know, I would see people around me move to town and have a hit song, you know, six months later. I would see people get. You know,

getting looks, you know, either songs placed on TV shows or big tour offers or, you know, opportunity to write with the biggest writers in town. And I would start to question, like, what do I not have that they have, or what do I not have that they have? You know, why am I not getting blessed with these things? I'm trying to, you know, pray and live the right life and do good. And, you know, I just, it wasn't coming to me. And so then I started questioning if that was even what I was supposed to be doing, making music. And it's one of those things. things that I think that God provides you with blessings when he feels like you're ready to handle them. And now that I'm on the other side of it, I think that God was making sure that I was

really sound in my marriage with a relationship with my kids as a father, making sure that I knew how to handle the temptation out on the road, the temptation of having money and clout and the opportunity to do whatever you want, but making sure you're on the right path. And I do feel pretty strongly that had he blessed me with all those things, like right when I moved to town, I did not have the tools in place to be able to handle that. And so like as I've started to have success now and grow now, his plan and his vision has become a lot more clear to me. And it's given me even more peace for like what the future is going to hold because his plan has been so perfect so far that I don't have to question it. And it's, it's nice to kind of have found peace in that. And it was a

really rocky road to get there, but I think that, you know, a lot of times, uh, the trials, the struggles, um, you know, the 12 hour drives overnight, the, you know, ratty hotel rooms that you get bedbugs in, uh, the, the nobody showing up to your shows, the sparse times where there's no money coming in. All of that is just strengthening you, toughening you for when he does provide. Um, and, and that's kind of how I've felt in this last year. Yeah. I love what you said about, you know, I didn't try. to quit multiple times. Yeah. And you got to tell, it's hard to take the ego out of it. And in that, I look back and it's like he was preparing me. And I wonder if that is the plan for us to,

when we're following Jesus and we're also immersed in temptation, fame, all of these things. But also the purification of the agenda, my why almost. It's like, I wonder if the giving up. It's like, that's what he was trying to do all along, is getting you to give up so that he could step in and kind of make it happen for you for the credit being his, not the credit being mine. Is that, do you feel like there's another way other than that? Do you feel like that? Because I just hear a lot of stories that that's the way. That's not like, it looks different, feels different every time, but like every time that's the way he was just trying to get me to give up. That's super interesting to hear you say. And I guess I had maybe never put it in that lens.

but even when I think about my timeline, so, you know, I had moved to town, I had gotten my record deal. And when you get your record deal, you know, everything you've seen on TV in the movies, you think, okay, well, now I've made it, right? Like, now I'm going to be a millionaire. Now I'm going to be famous. Like, they're going to be huge. And it just wasn't, right? That was step one. And then it kind of fizzled out after that. And so when I asked out of my deal and when I thought I was done, I was done giving up. I decided I was going to be a songwriter. And then I was done with touring and done with the artist thing. And I talked to me. my duo partner in the band and just kind of been like, hey, I think I'm done touring.

We've given this a fair shot. It's not working. I'm going to write songs for a little bit. And it wouldn't six months after that that I had just kind of let it all go that my solo career started working out. I started really focusing on songs. I started unapologetically being myself instead of trying to chase the other people that I saw making it.

Maybe if I sounded more like him, I would make it. Or maybe if I acted more like this person, I would make it. And all of that kind of went away because I had let go. And then I just dug into myself. And I was like, what kind of songs do I want to write? You know, how do I, you know, look in the mirror and write stuff that I'm proud of that means something? And it was when I started doing that, that people started connecting with my music when I wasn't even trying. And that's it, Brian, I think, like, I hear, it's like, God doesn't want you to give up.

He just wants, I feel it in my own story, but, like, God wants you to give up pretending. Yes. Because that's what you're like, man, I was trying to like, okay, what works and trying to put that imprint on. top of who I really was, but as soon as I didn't care anymore in the right way. Yes. You know, not in there, I'm going to show them and screw there. Like I'll show you, not not caring in that way, but like letting go and being like, I'm just going to be me because I've kind of like tried it.

It didn't work. Now I'm free. And so there's the consistency and this halfway point of like giving up pretending, but still being faithful to the mission and not conflating those. two things. That's a really beautiful thing, bro, to actually stand on the other side. Faithful to the mission without pretending. That's exactly right. And that's, it's such a hard thing to do because it's so easy, especially, like I said, when there's ego involved and when you've got your own intentions involved, it's so easy to try to force the agenda. It's so easy

to try to say, well, I can see everything, I can see your plan working for these people. So I'm just going to do exactly that when you know it's it's unique to everybody and your own challenges and your own journey are all preparing you for you know the reward at the end yeah so good and this is so fun because over the weekend I actually just learned about something called the iceberg method and like everything you're saying is really just kind of like speaking to that so it's basically like you see everything that's happening in public but you neglect everything that happens in private and basically in an iceberg if you're like visually looking at something there's like 10% of an iceberg a above water, right? And then 90% is below the water. So it's, you know, you neglect all of the things

that are happening below the water. And everybody sees this perfect life you're trying to live on Instagram or like in the world or in your career. Everybody thinks you're doing great. But below the water, you're like, this is hard. Yeah. This is heavy. And basically like saying like, don't cut corners. Be authentically you. You were talking earlier about laying a firm foundation. And I think laying that foundation. God was almost protecting you in all of this saying you think this is where you're supposed to be, you know, living Waterloo Revival or living, you know, this Nashville life. But like, I need you to focus on what's below the water first. So you built the firm foundation. You worked on your marriage. You had time with your kids when they were little. You know what I mean? And really

building that foundation. So that way you're a strong unit. That way, everything above water matches is everything below water. And I really think that when I turned the lens inward was when I figured out how to operate on a bigger scale. You know, once I got that foundation really solidified, that freed me up to fearlessly go chase my dream. And because I knew that my wife and I were rock solid, and I knew that my kids knew who their dad was

and that we were going to talk on the phone every night and that, you know, they wouldn't ever not feel like they had a support system for me. and it's crazy how much that frees you up. And, you know, when we started music, it was crazy for me and it was crazy for Kara. And we obviously had our struggles of like learning how to tour and learning how to communicate and learning how to chase dreams without, you know, sacrificing our whole life. And I think that we were able to make it through that struggle and create this super strong foundation where we really trust each other and we really know how to communicate with each other. And even just like praying together and like being in.

intentional and like unapologetically saying our dreams out loud has like made us so much closer. And then I think that even without saying it, we both operate like chasing that because we've, we've set it out loud together. And that we know that there's a higher power watching over us. So all of that foundation helps me go out on the road and be like, hey, whatever this turns into, if I have 10 more number ones, if I don't ever have another number one, I have the most important thing in the world to me at home. And that lets me go out there and chase it fearlessly. Yeah. Let's talk more about that ways now the success is loud, right? The success is happening.

Everything's been thrown at you. It's crazy. Life is awesome. How do you protect your faith in these moments now? You know, I have been so well insulated by the touring team that I've built. We have a super tight-knit family. We pray together before every show. We, love to kind of hype each other up. My band goes to Bible study together when they're back in town. And so it's like I think we've created this, um, this almost like touring family where, uh, we support each other on and off the road. And we know what, um, is required at home as well. And so, you know, there's a lot of grace for the, the touring family because of that. And then, um, when I am home, it's, um, it's just being intentional, you know, we, we try to go to church on Sundays when we come back. Um, um, we, we try to go to church on Sundays. Um,

my boys, I've really encouraged them to like before we have dinner tonight. Even my six-year-old, I'd be like, all right, Luke, you want to lead us in some prayer tonight before we eat dinner? And it'll be his, you know, a little version of a prayer. But it's like giving them, knowing that it's something that I'm rooted in, but giving them the autonomy to feel like they're leading. And so, you know, we have a different member of the band lead prayer before we go on stage every night.

And my kids, you know, I try to be like, all right, buddy, what do you want to say? How do you want to talk to God? And trying to have everybody involved, have everybody, have everybody. speaking their piece and then just, you know, having each other's back when we're on the road, too, because we're all going to stumble and we're all going to have hard times, but knowing that you have that safety net around you is pretty awesome. Yeah. That's amazing, dude.

And I heard you say early one thing that stuck out to me, just like knowing who to trust and kind of like people that you thought were your friends, I think that you kind of got bumpy or whatever happened that was falling out through that process of giving up, but then also making it and whatever that means and success and fame, what does that look like? What does it look like to know who to trust? How do you know who to trust? How have you wrestled with that? I think support systems are everything. I'm so glad to hear you have a great one around your touring. But what was it like with just that relational tussle of knowing who to trust and motivations and people jumping on the, on the, on the, you know,

the train on the bandwagon, all that? I think especially in show business and especially when you're new to it and you are a bit blinded by the shining lights and everything, it's very easy to get lost in transactional relationships and believe that they are real. And people are going to be drawn to people that can help them grow.

And so a lot of times, you'll come to town and I had a little bit of heat. I had a new record deal. So all these big songwriters wanted to write with me and, you know, all these big press publications wanted to, you know, have interviews with me and you start believing that, oh, yeah, I deserve this. And all these people are lucky to be my friends and, you know, that I'm friends with all these people. And then you lose a record deal and then your song doesn't work. And then you don't get returned phone calls or, you know, and you just kind of fall off the earth. And it'll hit you hard if you genuinely

believe like that is your value and those are your friendships. But there are people that still answer the phone when you're not on top of the mountain. And that's like your real foundation. And I think the second time on the climb for me, it's making sure that I'm aware of that. And making sure I nurture the ones that are going to be there forever. And I mean, my wife is the number one example of that, right? Like she was coming to watch me play shows at the Mellow Mushroom when I was playing open mic night on the, you know, on the drag at the university.

of Texas and she's been there. Like she's seen me at my lowest, my most embarrassing, out of tune guitars when I couldn't sing to save my life, but I was still chasing it. And now she's seen me on the other side of it. Never once do I question if this all went away that she would still be there tomorrow. And I think it's like finding value in like knowing that God loves you,

knowing that you have a foundation of your family, and knowing that you have friends that love you for who you are and not what you have. And it doesn't mean you can't have transactional. relationships. Like you can have people that can help you get where you're going and you can help other people get where they're going. And it is part of the industry that we're in. Like you have to have it. You have to have somebody giving you a hand up. But I think it's realizing what's real, what's work and where your value lies is not in the transaction, but it's in who you are as a person and who you are as a

friend. I just like see the word integrity like all over you. Like celebrating and just surrounding yourself with people of integrity is so important. I actually have been reading Proverbs, and it's just like, you know, the weight of your influence is so important. And I think you making that, you know, the decision to say, I need to surround myself with people

who are going to be there when things go bad. That, not even just as an artist, people that are watching or listening to this, like in real life, at work, people that you, you know, do life with. Friends that, you know, are your neighbors, like celebrating and surrounding yourself with people of intent.

that are always going to have your back and always know who you are, regardless of the circumstance. Gosh, that's so important. It's probably the most important. And I feel like this year, I was just talking to my wife yesterday about this. I have felt God call me more than probably ever in my life. And it's like it is from the people that he has surrounded me with. And I've tried to listen and I've tried to lean into that from some of my best songwriting buddies inviting me to Bible study to hiring a couple guys in the band that were had a lot of the same

values as I did and weren't interested in like chasing girls on the road or getting you know into trouble every night and then you know we ended up starting to hire more and more people like that and then the new guys that would come on to the crew they would see the culture of our band and we would have the opportunity to influence these guys that are right out of college or just starting their first touring career and they're starting to see hey you don't have to be a scumbag to be on the road and hey, you can have a family life and you can, um, you know, chase, uh, you know, positive things and still have fun and be on the road and make music and have a good time. Like that, that can coexist. And, um, I think that for me, it's just been leaning into that influence that God is calling me. I

don't have to be out like preaching every night and, and bashing people over the head with it. And I do think that it is good to share the word and, and I do try to as best I can. But I think even if you can just, live a life where you're content and where you are just leading by example. And I think that that's what we try to do is just, you know, have as many people out there showing that you can do both. And I've had friends lead me by example, going to Bible study every Tuesday morning on Music Row and just, you know, being unafraid to pray for each other and being unafraid to be vulnerable and talk about

their problems. That doesn't come naturally to me, but they've led me by example being a part of that. And so now that's like every Tuesday I go fill up my cup and it takes the weight off my shoulders being like, hey, these are real friends and we all have real problems and we can all pray for each other. And I think just when you listen to God and you see the people that he puts in your life that are pulling you in the right direction, lean into it because he's doing it for a reason. Yeah. You shall know them by their fruit.

Yes. Lead by example. It's like God, his love is communicated to people, not just from. the principles from the mountaintop but like your life and the integrity a good name is worth more than gold and you can see and i just want to affirm like 100% bro there's like a character and a name that you've wrestled with in terms of choices and i'd love to hear like that's not an easy for someone who personally you know kind of knows a little bit of that wrestle it's intense i've been last year was a very intense wrestle for like, what are you going to be and how, you know, what are you going to

choose when no one's watching? And I think for that wrestle to speak, like you've chosen that over and over again, you've been great at it, you've been not so great at it, but the wrestle of the choice to, for integrity in the private when no one's watching. How do you, how do you do it? Yeah. How do you do? Because I think so many people are like, man, I just can't. I just keep following and praise God for his grace and he keeps picking it up. But like the disciplines of good choices in the behind the scenes. Yeah. It's the gold. Like that's the gold. I think that I've found a lot of peace this year in accepting that nobody is perfect and you can't be perfect. And God, you know, designed us in his image, but he didn't design. us to be perfect. You know, that's why he had to send Jesus down. And that's why, you know, he had to be sacrificed. It's because there's nobody that can live perfectly. And I think that all he wants is us to be pursuing him. And if you're actively pursuing him, and if you are wrestling,

that means you're doing it right. If you've given up and you just say, you know, let this in take you over and say, I'm going to be taken by temptation and I'm going to accept it. That's one thing. We're all going to have temptation. We're all going to stumble. But I think that if you wake up every day choosing to wrestle it and choosing to try to pursue God, you can find peace that you're doing what he's asking. Yeah. Yeah. I have been having really deep conversations with my husband recently about just like men of God.

And he's been, I don't know, just like convicted to like be a leader because he's like so many of these young men are lost. Yeah. And you talking about bringing these guys right out of college on the road with you and teaching them like what a life can look like when you are a man. man of God. Talk to us about some of those, like, values and things that you're trying to instill into them, because what is, what is being a man of God to you? What does that feel like? I mean, you've got two boys as well. Sure. I think the, the thing that I struggled with most in the

beginning was like, who am I to tell these guys what to do or who am I to be a leader? Like, I'm not perfect and I have my flaws and, you know, I struggle every day. But I think it's just an effort to, you know, try to, um, save them from some of the stuff that I struggled with and teach them some of the tips that I've learned to be able to, you know, function and live life in a way that's fulfilling. And, you know, I didn't have a ton of people around me in the beginning pulling me in a great direction. And so once I found those people, I've tried to like understand, you know, what they did for me and how they pulled me in. And And I've tried to do that for other people.

And so, again, it's just like creating a culture where it's like we're not preaching or we're not bashing over the head or we're not judging you. But it's like, hey, you know, we're being vulnerable. We're praying. We're going to church. We're being faithful to our spouses. You know, we still like to have a good time and we still like to go out on the road and make music and do what we love. And you can have both. There's a world where all of that can exist.

And we're not going to bash you over the head with it. but like if you want to come join us. Come on. Yeah. And we'll teach you what you know what we know. Proverbs 1130, the one who is wise saves lives. I just, I love that. I see that all over you, just like a man of integrity,

a man of God who is, he's doing his best. You're doing your best. You've lived through life and you're trying to help others along the way. I think it's such a special thing and it's such a special characteristic, especially in this industry where people are unfaithful to their wives. and people, you know, fall to all of the temptation that's around them all of the time. Like, you think that walking to work every day and, like, you know, living a normal life, like there's temptation there.

Get yourself on the road where you're in front of thousands of people every night. Girls are in the DMs. They don't care that you're married. You know what I mean? There's just so many things in the industry that I think the weight of that can get so heavy. But, man, you carry it well. Thank you for saying that. It's interesting.

I've heard some artists. and some famous people, before I kind of got to a level of some success, talk about how it's never enough to fill the hole. You know, you've got rock bottom where you have nothing and you're hungry and you always are like, you know, one day when I have money or one day when I have a house or one day I want to have a car. But it's never enough. And eventually when you have everything and you can have anything you want at any time and it still doesn't scratch the itch, then what do you do? do, you know, and that's where a lot of people fall into, you know, bad problems. And so I think that it's been really important to have the things that you can't buy with money, you can't buy with fame, you can't buy in that world. It's the family, the friends, golf has been huge for me. It's a game

that I can never conquer and, you know, something that always keeps me challenged. And I think That's the, that what God had to teach me before he could give me success was that when you can find peace in what is important and what you do have, then I can provide you with this bounty and you'll be ready to handle it. And you will know that that is not the end all be all. It's just a blessing on top of it. And I guess that's coming back to the whole like giving up thing. And we're having this conversation last night, but about billionaires. And it was like, like we know too. like the guy I was playing golf with.

And he's like, they're like the nicest people I've ever met, like the best people. Like, and they're billionaires. Like, and he goes, but then I know like millionaires that are the worst people. And it's like it skips. There's something happens. And I said to him something that I, that I just recognize in this conversation. I think there's a process that everyone goes through of like the wrestle of what will fill that whole. It's like, oh, a little bit of that.

And then you go, okay, there's nothing that will fill that hole to a point. of God's really not interested in the stuff. He's not really interested in giving me all that. He's really, really interested in me and getting the real me. And so the process is to get the real me to strip away all the ego, the pride that gets in the way, the sin that so easily entangles so that I can see all of this for the real thing. Like all of the game, I can see it for how he sees it. Sure.

And then I think the billionaires are just the ones that have like been beat up a lot by the wrong thinking and submitted to the process of the stripping away to then. And it's not about a money thing, but we just made the interesting correlation of everyone's got a process. It's all the same journey to get to the real you. It's an identity thing that the world is trying everything to constrict, conflate, pervert, distract who you really are. And all God really cares is like, who's the real mark? let him, you know, Eminem said it first, I guess, with a real slim, shady, please stand up. Yeah. That's true. That's a throwback right there. But it's...

Well, and it gives you so much peace and not having to pretend, right? And just being able to, I don't know, you're not putting on a show. You get to go be yourself and you get to be content and feel that you're enough. And that doesn't mean that you can't enjoy the success and enjoy the gifts that God gives you, it's just taking them for what they are. Yeah, and then trying to do good and share with them, you know. Donating time, donating shows, donating to charities, that kind of stuff. And knowing, you know, finding joy in that as well.

Yeah. Yeah. Man, I just, who much is given, much is required. And, you know, kind of talking about what you're just saying about giving back and things like that, the billionaire mindset, too. It's just like if you live with your fists closed, you know, it's just like you're, you're going to miss out. But if you just live with your hands open and are just like, if I'm blessed, you're blessed. You know what I mean?

I feel like you're even, you're rewarded even more because it's, you know, God wants to give you the desires of your heart, but he doesn't want you to be stingy with them. He wants you to be generous. And that's what we're called to do. Love God, love people. Be generous. Build up the people around us. And I don't know. I just, I keep just wanting to like build you up.

You're just doing such a great job. and I'm just proud to know you. I felt that really early in the beginning was like I felt so tight-fisted of like I need to make it so that I can provide for my family and that we never have to worry about money again. You know, I need to make, I need to have these hits so that I can buy a house and then I can buy a car and that I can be bulletproof to the world and I will have my fortune and nobody can take it and I'll be set. And that was my mindset in the beginning.

And it was the wrong one. It was when I, you know, leaned in, trust a plan, give to others. um, you know, and when you give it comes back 10 times full. It's, uh, it's, it's, it's, that's freedom. Yeah. Like that attitude is freedom. You know, the tight fist, it's like, you know, control, which is fear based, which is our own prison.

Um, and we get convinced into it because, you know, it does, it does in some instances work in the short term, but like inside, we're in this prison of fear. And that's what I think the difference is. And it's like, man, there's a, there is a, there is a, a, freedom of like, I don't care in the right way, it's free, you know. And I've been shocked in the number of times that I've, since I've started to try to invest my time more and not worry about what other people can do for me, how many times I've leaned into somebody or tried to be there for somebody that I didn't think could do anything for me

where it's come back more so than the relationships that I was chasing where I thought people could do something for me. And, um, it, yeah, it's crazy. His ways are higher than our ways. It's like, You know, he knows, like, hey, I'm, I care about the outcome more than you, but I also really, really care about the process because the process is important for the outcome. And that's the refinement of the real you living in that place that's free, not this like, you know, controlling, watching my back, but like the full, the big picture. Because really the big picture is eternity anyway. Yes.

It's not even like an inheritance for my children's children. The big picture is forever. Yes. And that's the game he's playing. and I'm just playing like, but what about next week? Exactly, right? And it's like, dang, yeah, good reminder. You mentioned, you know, refinement.

And I feel like in the beginning of your career, you did go through this refining process of, like, your thoughts and how you were living your life and, like, you know, what you thought the end goal was and things like that and really just letting go of it at that moment. Right now currently, is God refining anything in your life right now that you're working on or you're learning or anything that you'd like to share? That's a great question.

Yes, 100%. I was talking about feeling him calling me more this year through the people around me. And so I think that he is refining me more in being selfless with my time and what I'm giving and not being so goal-oriented all the time. I pray almost every day of like, God help me just trust your plan and relinquish my own wants and needs. You know, this is what I want, but I want it to be part of your plan, too. And I think that that's what he's refining in me right now, and it has helped me massively in my anxiety of being able to let go and give it to him.

And so I work on that through, you know, vocalizing it with my friends and praying every day. And just trying to really lean into. We've started eating dinner as a family every night when I'm home. at the table, which is new for us too. And it's just kind of taking in little things, talking about goals, but also trusting and giving thanks every day. It's thank you for the blessings that are in front of us and whatever blessings you have ahead of us or trials that you have ahead of us, we know that you're going to be walking

with us. And for me, I am such a type A control freak. And so for him to kind of be sanding those edges. off of me. I can almost hear that voice in my head and I can feel every time I pray or every time I sit down and find peace with my family at the table or go to Bible study, I can almost feel that weight just melt off of me a little bit of like, hey, I'm not in control, so don't pretend to be. And that is kind of what he's working on me right now. And it's going to take a lot of work, but I'm getting closer. Man, welcome to the class. I am the same way where in my family especially,

I'm just so, I just want to be in control. Like you're doing that wrong. Let me just do it. Or, you know, this is happening. I need to do it myself because you're just going to, you're just going to mess it up. Or you know, you want to be in control of who's doing what, where they're going, things like that. And that's been something I've been working on too where it's like, you know what? I've got to let you do it wrong because I can't do everything. So true. And it's such a hard thing when you are that type A mentality where you're just naturally the one who is just outgoing. You're always ahead of everybody. You want to be everybody's friend. You don't want to, you know, disappoint people. And you're like, well, if I can just make this, this, this, and this and this happen, let me just taking that step back, boy, is at heart.

So when you're talking about, you know, that that refinement of letting go and being like, God, Jesus, take the wheel. Yeah, I quit. I quit in the right way. I'm still here, but I quit. Yeah. That's like. Well, and it's finding that middle ground of it's not quitting, but it's relinquishing control, right? And because it doesn't mean I can't hustle and it doesn't mean I can't chase my dreams.

And it doesn't mean that I can't go try to outwork everybody and be the best at what I do. But it's being content with the result. And he's going to choose a result and he's going to tell you when it's time. And that I think is the biggest thing for me. Like it's helped me find enjoyment in the journey. It's helped me find enjoyment in pure songwriting and enjoyment and purely just working on my show to have it be the best show that I can be. And working on myself to be the best husband and best dad I can be. And whatever the result of that is, in physical terms, is going to be what it is.

But that's not my decision to make. So that has been what I'm working on. And, you know, there was a time where I felt guilty of, like, praying for a number one song or praying for people to show up to my shows or praying to have a tour bus. Or, you know, why would God care about that when there's so many problems in the world? but it's God's going to give you your vehicle and use you in the way that he needs to use you

and it's okay to pray for success but also pray for the tools to know how to use it and that's kind of what I'm working on right now that's good. Yeah. So good. I need a two of us. I'm going to start to pray. I was going to say though let's go there because I feel like those listening who may be I have a really one of my best friends in the entire world

She is the most faithful human being on the planet. She is knowledgeable. She's got such a heart for God. But she also struggles very hard with asking the Lord for the desires of her heart. And so we decided collectively as a group of friends that we were going to do the Esther fast together. She was just like, listen, I've been convicted that, you know, I want to ask for what I want to ask for. So in the book of Esther, basically Esther, she, you know, she doesn't eat or drink for three days. We did water for three days, but she was like, at the end of this fast, we're going to get together.

And we are going to sit in our robes of gold and we are going to ask God for what we want. She was just like, because this is something that I'm struggling with. And I want us to do this together. So in that sentiment, asking the Lord for the desires of your heart for somebody who's listening and wants a tangible way to say, like, how do I do that? what prayers are you praying to, you know, or what are you telling yourself to, you know, how do you ask God for the desires of your heart

without feeling guilty? I think that, you know, the biggest thing that I always start is, you know, if it be your will, you know, if it's something that's in your plans, I would love to have a great headline tour this year. And I would love to sell out these shows. And God, please also grant me the tools

to use that success to, help share your name and help share your message and to make to bring me closer to you god please help me be somebody that you would be proud of help me walk in your light and please help me take these blessings and glorify your name you know and whether that's you know having our house be the house in the neighborhood that's the open door and the kids can come over anytime they want and all their friends can come over and they feel safe and they see you know a mom and dad that love each other and, you know, they feel supported and they can take that out into their world, whether it's bringing new people on the band into, you know, our touring world and giving them

a place where they feel supported and a place that they feel like they can thrive and start a career and build their own family. It's okay to be blessed. It's okay to be thankful for the gifts that you have, and it's okay to have your wants and desires. It's just part of being human, but it's also praying for the tools to, you know, God, how do I use these blessings? that you've given me in the best way. Yeah, so good. God, I don't look at, I got four kids and my two older boys specifically have a lot of wants, and they come to me all the time.

And I don't look at them when they ask me, sometimes I look at them and go, dude, you don't really want that. I know you say you want that, but you don't really want that. Yeah. Other times, I'm doing everything I can. Most of the time, I'm doing everything I can as a human, average father that's full of, I'm not God, even close to it, but I do everything I can to figure out how to get my boys what they want. Even the things that I'm like, it's not even, I know it's not the best thing for them, but I'm, but I never ever, I'm like, dude, you're an idiot.

Stop wanting the wrong thing. Not one time, even if they keep doing it. Yeah. And I just think to myself, man, if me and my human, Jesus would say it, you know, if it's like, if a father of the earthly would not give his son a scum. scorpion if he asks for a piece of bread, do you think, like, your father in heaven, who is infinitely more kind and perfect and loving? And one of his name is provider. You think he's pissed that you're asking about what you want? He's looking at his son or his daughter going, all right, how do I get this to them? Like, I want to show them that I love them so much.

His desire, he created us for this, how can I communicate, that I love this. son, this daughter so much. And so I just, I think the enemy is the accuser and the enemy is like, dude, you're a jerk for wanting that. Yeah. And I think that's shame. That's like, why would a father not want his child to be happy, you know? And it's, um, and I think that, you know, it's, it's exactly that. As dads, we want our kids to be happy and we want to give and we want to provide to them. And that's just a fraction of the love that we're getting from God. So it's like, of course he wants to bless us, but he also wants us to, to, give us the tools to understand the value of the blessings and, you know, what directionally

we need to be putting our stock in. So, yeah, that's... I want to know they want to go to Cracker Barrel tonight. Yeah. I don't want to whip out the, you know, the pumpkin soup again from the freezer. I want to go to Cracker Barrel. We love Cracker Barrel. You want to go to Cracker Barrel? Yes.

Let's go to... It's such a good fare. Like, what are your ages? Six and eight. Six and eight. So I got nine and six and then the other ones that are four and three, I think. The small ones. But like, it's such a good for our ages.

It's such a good family. It is kind of an expensive trip, though. Because of the front shop. Cracker burial's been pretty good about keeping their prices locked in, though. They have on the food, but it's the retail journey through the retail. If you can make it through the shopping in the beginning without any tears, you know, it's going to be a good thing. You're good. Yeah. 100%.

I've never done it yet. I love that y'all are Cracker Barrel families because my daughter, Emma. She calls it Roll House. She loves Texas Roadhouse. Oh, roadhouse. That's an expensive trip. We're getting one in my neighborhood. like half a mile down the road.

So we're reject for the roll house. She's like, can we go to roll house tonight? And I'm like, look at you wanting steak. Got that like expensive taste. Okay. Love it. Man, I'm just thinking about these prayers and like asking for the desires of your heart.

I feel like something I've been learning lately too. It's kind of in the beginning where you were saying, that I will be done. You know what I mean? Whatever your will is. In my prayers, I'm like, this is what I'm asking for and this is what I'm believing for. But even if it's not what is.

for me, you're still good. And learning that recently, like, through like a really hard time, like, it's just even if this doesn't happen, you're still good. And, and clinging to that and knowing that, it's such a hard concept for people to grasp if they're not believers or if they're not, you know, fully in their walk with Christ. So in those even if moments in your life, like say, Waterloo Revival, for example, in the very beginning of your career, you're like, oh, this is what I want, this is what I want, this is what I want, but it didn't happen for me. And you have this time in that moment of this even if period before songs go viral on social media and then you know everything starts taking off for you in those moments what were your prayers like

god help me find peace in your plan for me that's i always ask for you know help me feel your presence help me calm the anxiety and trust you i'm always asking for him to help me trust him because I try to insert myself and I try to act like I know better and I try to move in ways that maybe if I would be patient and trust him, it would work out. And he's given me plenty of examples of that. My first number one song, I wrote it, pitched it to Jason Aldeen. Jason Aldeen was ready to cut it, take it into the studio, and he slowed me down. And I ended up getting a record deal. And I ended up getting the song back. And there was a time where I was like, man, you know, I'm going to go put this out and it's not going to do anything. And I just took it away from the entertainer of the year.

and, you know, what, this is a huge, where I literally kind of got bummed out. It went on to be my first number one song, broke me as an artist, and I wouldn't be here today without it. And that was God slowing me down and pointing me in the right direction. And I've had multiple cases of that. I have a duet about to come out this year with the biggest artist that I've ever collaborated with, and I wrote it two years ago, and it was going to go another direction with a different artist and you know god slowed me down with the the artist that i wrote it with and we both agreed

that you know it needed to go this other direction and now it's going to be um probably the biggest song that i've i've ever had a feature on and um god god has a plan so yeah isn't it awesome how kind god is yes yes just looking back at moments and just being like oh that's what you were doing yeah those moments are just so priceless in life and he would have let us he would have let you go and make it happen. But that's the invitation, the opportunity is like, hey, you can have it now and you can force it or you can slow down and listen and hit the bull's eye. And I think accuracy, the unprecedented accuracy, you know, I'm hunting that too. I'm like, God, I don't want to just keep like, oh, let's just try this, try this, 10 irons in the fire, but like slow down and aim well.

And that's what I hear in like, that's so cool to hear that. Just, you know, Yeah, I had this song, and then it was just like, no, you know what? It doesn't feel like let me just keep that tension a little bit longer. And then bang it. And then it hits the bull's eye. And then you're like, it's pretty awesome. And it's being able to listen to the pivot without doubting. Yeah.

You know, and that was, I struggled. It's so hard. So hard. No, this is what I initially set my side on and I'm not going to take my eyes off of it because this is a path that I wanted to be on. And that's the only path I'm going to go down. Yeah. And it's when you let him.

guide you, take turns, listen to him, slow down, and talk to God enough to hear him talk back is when you land where you need to be. Yeah. I'd love for you to give some just advice to anybody that might be watching or listening to podcast that just might feel like they're in a season of God, I don't know what to do now. I'm not sure where my steps are supposed to go. Help me figure out what to do. Those people that are in those doubting seasons or those anxious, you know, seasons of like, what is happening? What is something that you'd speak into them? Well, first of all, I would just say patience and trust the process and know that God is good and know that he loves you and does have a plan for you. I moved to town 10 years before I had my first hit, 10 years.

10 years of van and trailer, of playing nobody shows, of end. anxiousness of wondering if it's ever going to happen. But I really feel very strongly that if you talk to God enough, you will hear him talk back. And if you ask him for direction, if you ask him for comfort, if you ask him for peace, which I do almost every day, he will eventually start to show you his plans. And then also, I think the thing that I was blind to forever, because I was chasing, Fame and fortune and famous friends and shiny lights is pay attention to the people that God is putting in your life for a reason and lean into them. Because he is everywhere and you do have real friends and you do have people that will help you get closer to God and that will help you understand God more and people that will help you in your journey.

And all of us, whether we know it or not, have people that he has put there to be resources and be support for us. Pay attention and find them. Yeah. It's really good. So good. We always like to end the podcast with sort of just things in your life right now that maybe you and your wife and your family. What are you guys praying for right now? That's a great question.

We are praying for, well, it's a pretty long list as a family because we do it every day. I think the biggest thing is we prayed for continued closeness as a family. We pray to also be like good resources and friends. and a light that helps shine God in the world. We pray for safe travel because we're on the road all the time. And then, you know, we're always praying for peace. This is a wild world and there's a lot going on. But just for God to have a hand in our life for his voice to be heard and for him to help guide us.

Yeah. All right. Well, Holy Spirit is asking you to pray today. I usually close things out, but the Holy Spirit is like, Mark, Mark, Mark. So I'm going to ask you to pray for us today. God, we just, we humble ourselves just right now and we just bring to you all of these prayer requests. God, this success pointed to you as a lighthouse. I just thank you for this incredible family that they have been raised up for such a time as this.

God, that you have trusted. you have you have entrusted literally entrusted this season to a man and a family with deep integrity and roots in you i thank you for the process i thank you for the pain not because it makes sense but because you were near through the whole thing and you were close and you're close now and i just i just pray just even over this duet i just feel like god that there would be a blessing god and a grace on it like ever before. I pray for the safe travel and the touring. I pray for, you know, I just feel right now as we're praying, like, God wants to give you like blueprints that are like different ways of doing things. Like it's like God wants to, not in a contrarian way, but it's like he wants to give you

keys and pathways even for the industry of changing it up. And I don't know what's in your heart as far as the ideas, but there's supernatural ideas and keys to change up, change. up the game and I think you see things that other people don't see in terms of the pathways to what what what would lead to health in people's hearts and I really think it's around health and it's around like just supernatural keys. So God I just pray for ideas like from heaven. I pray for dreams God to open up fresh ideas the anointing on his life to build and to to architect like there's an architect anointing. And so I just pray for supernatural ideas. God, for a blessing, for innovation. God, I see it in songs. I also see it. Thank you, Lord, for your hand on his life.

Lord, this Daniel anointing, God of this consistent, Lord, you're raising him up. So we just bless his family, his children, health and friendship and just great team. Bless his band around him on the road. Jesus mighty name we pray. Amen. Amen. Thank you, Mark. Dude, absolutely. I was feeling, sorry, it went into a little bit of, but I do feel, bro. There's an architect. Like, you kind of see the pathways and like God wants to give you that like the supernatural, whatever. I don't know what it looks like. Sweet. I'm trying to learn how to listen. So thank you. Thank you for saying that. Brooke, that was amazing. You guys are awesome.