The Bobby Bones Show - Jorma Kaukonen - Behind the scenes with a music legend with Buzz Knight-Music History on Foot.

Episode Date: June 13, 2023

Jorma is a founding member of the Jefferson Airplane and Hot Tuna and we’re thrilled to have him back on Takin A Walk.He is always an artist who professes his joy for his craft.Connect With Jorma KaukonenWebsite: https://jormakaukonen.com/YouTube Music: https://music.youtube.com/channel/UCZ8JhF-1lVuL5ekOiD-HDjQ?feature=gws_kp_artist&feature=gws_kp_artist About the Show *****Thank you so much for listening to the TAKIN’ A WALK PODCAST SHOW hosted by Buzz Knight!  Listen to more honest conversations with a compelling mix of guests ranging from musicians, authors, and insiders with their own stories. Get inspired, get motivated, and gain insights from honest conversations every week that can help you with your own journey. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, and be part of this blessed family.Website: https://takinawalk.com/Twitter: https://twitter.com/thebuzzknightLinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/buzzknightLinkfire: https://lnk.to/takinawalk Please consider subscribing, leaving a review, and sharing it with your friends and family!Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance.

And then there's your body having its own program. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On a recent episode of the podcast Money and Wealth with John Ho'Brien, I sit down with Tiffany the budgetista Aliche to talk about what it really takes to take control of your money. What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people when they're no longer here? We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth, starting with the mindset shifts. Too many of us were never, ever taught. If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for you to hear more. Listen to Money and Wealth with John Hope Bryant from the Black Effect Network on the I'd Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Ernest, look, money is something we all deal with, but financial literacy is what helps us. helps turn income into real wealth. On each episode of the podcast, Earn Your Leisure, we break down the conversations you need to understand money, investing, and entrepreneurship. From stocks and real estate to credit, business, and generational wealth, our goal is simple. Make financial literacy accessible for everyone.

Because when you understand the system, you can start to build within it. Open your free I-Hard Radio app, search Earn Your Leisure, and listen now. You know the famous author, Roald Dahl. He thought up Willie Wonka and the BFG. But did you know he was a spy? Neither did I.

You can hear all about his wildlife story in the podcast, The Secret World of Roll Doll. All episodes are out now. Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been. What? Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you, the guy was a spy.

Binge all 10 episodes of The Secret World of Roll Doll. Now on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the Taken a Walk podcast, music history on foot. If you like this podcast, please share it with a friend. You can find Taking a Walk on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, IHeart, the podcast playground, or wherever you get your podcasts. Buzz Night is your host, and join him for this episode with a rock and roll legend, Yorma Kaukenen. Yorma is a founding member of the Jefferson Airplane and Hattuna, and he's also had a successful solo career. He's truly one of the great guitar players of our generation.

and we welcome him to taking a walk next. Well, Yorma, it is so great to be virtually taken a walk with you. You were gracious enough to take a walk with me on an earlier episode at the lovely furpiece ranch, but this is the next best thing. It is. We're taking a modern walk here. How are things at the fur piece these days? Well, you know, the fur piece is moderately,

moderately uneventful these days. We're not doing in-person things now. We're doing a lot of Zoom stuff. I'm pretty comfortable with the Zoom, and we're doing a lot of shows. So that is very definitely happening. And yeah, our company's store is open four days a week, and people have been coming in and looking at the silo, and we're getting ready to, we've been doing broadcasting shows or recording shows, and the only thing we're not doing is in-person students.

You know, COVID changed everything for us, as it did for everybody. And we're still trying to figure out what the next move is going to be, but so far we're alive and kicking. Well, you're coming to the city winery in Boston, June 23rd, and it's a great venue, and it's just going to be Yorma acoustic, right? That's correct. It's Yorma and Yorma. Can I be your road crew?

I'm the easiest guy in the world. I really am. So the news broke that you and Mr. Jack Cassidy will be doing the last round of the electric hot tuna tour. Correct. Tell me the thought behind that decision. So, yeah, I mean, things like that, you know, those are momentous decisions in our lives, of course, because we've been doing it for so long. but there's a lot of pieces in play here. And I'll give you as many of them as I can remember off the top of my head. And this is not an order of importance.

These are all pieces in play. So one of the things is that to do an electric tour these days is extremely expensive. And people will, well, there's only three of you guys. And I go, yeah, that's true. There's only three of us. But if you've got a bus and then you need a trailer, there's a lot of stuff. I mean, look, I'm not complaining about expenses because everybody, He's got expensive.

But so that's the expense is a factor. The fact that, you know, at almost 83, I'm still really pretty darn vigorous, you know, but if electric shows take a lot out of you. But that's not the main reason either. One of the things I think is that, you know, we really, the only time I pick up an electric guitar is when I get together with the guys. I'm not one of these guys that woodsheds by himself, because I'm not one of these guys that woodsheds by himself, because I'm not a chop's head in that way.

When I play electric music, I like to play with people, and I need those people to play with. And we only get together when we're going to do a tour, and then we take some time to rehearse and get to know each other, et cetera, et cetera. So for me, the electric shows it's not as dynamic a living art form for me as the acoustic thing that I do all the time, either by myself or with Jack

or with my friend John Hurl, but or Larry Campbell, a bunch of my other friends, there's just something more emotionally immediate to me at this moment about playing the acoustic music. And so, you know, and that's pretty much the pieces that are in play on this. I get it completely. So, Yorma, you've always been a teacher throughout your life,

and you've always been a learner also. Yeah. What have you recently, learned or re-learned. Sure. So, you know, I mean, the guys like me are always absorbing stuff. You know, guitar players are a gregarious lot and, you know, and where you learn musical things, the courts, and this and that.

But I've got this friend of mine named Frank Goodman. I've known him for many years. And he was working in Nashville for a number of years writing songs, a songwriter, and he's retired now. But anyway, so he wrote this song called Where Am I Old Friend? gone. Come hell or I water, the crick's going to rise. We're still hanging on, but they're dropping like flies. Oh, Lord, where are my old friends gone? It's sort of like, you know, it's a song that I relate to. It's a funny song and it's a lot of fun. Anyway, the point, the learning thing,

it's in the key of sea. I've been playing songs in the key of sea for well over the better part of half a century. What new is there to learn? And the answer is no wise, probably not much, but in the way things are assembled, probably a lot. And all of a sudden, there's this superficially simple little song that just uses the normal C chord C, A minor, E, F. I mean, just the normal gaggle of, you know, circle of fifths, C songs, but they're so artfully put together. And you'll be hearing it when I'm coming up your way, by the way, because I'm starting to do this song. And just these little licks and stuff like that. And it was so different from the way that I play. Normally, I just sort of assume things and make them mine.

But in this case, I really like what Frank did. So I found. a Vimeo video of him doing it, and I studied it for about a month. I mean, not so I can kind of replicate his moves that were different than mine, you know. Anyway, and so here I am in the first position to see song, guitar players will know exactly what I'm talking about. What more can you learn? And the answer is, you never know, and probably a lot. So since we took our walk last year, the big talk has been AI, artificial intelligence. Oh, boy.

Where do you think it's going to do to musicians and to the music industry? You know, as a big science fiction buff, of course, I'm all over this stuff, and there's a bunch of great series about it. I mean, but I'm not a scientist, and it's like, who knows, really? I mean, I would like to think that on some level, there is some inherent quality to human, to the creativity, that the humanity is endowed with, if you're lucky, that will not be able to be replicated by AI.

And I guess maybe the flip side of that, again, being a science fiction fan, is if I'm completely wrong, and AI can do all this stuff, maybe we can learn from it. Who knows? I mean, I don't know. On many levels, it's scary stuff in a lot of ways. But as an artist, I really believe that there's a human quality that cannot be replicated by machines no matter how smart.

So I have a couple of questions from some members of the taking a walk listening audience. Sure. First one comes from a gentleman by the name of Mussie, who happens to be my neighbor who lives around the block. And he wanted me to ask you, the first album or concert that you went to that, really got you fixated on finger-picking.

Oh, finger-picking. That's a good one. That's a good one. Okay. I guess the first time I became aware of finger-picking, I was probably, wow, I might not have even been playing the guitar yet. It would have, yeah, it would have been, yeah, I think it's before I got a guitar. It would have been the early 50s. And we went to, I lived in, Washington, D.C., we went to a Pete Seeger show somewhere, probably, I don't remember, we're a listener auditorium, maybe, who knows? And just because I sort of was really entranced by what Pete was doing on the guitar more than the banjo, but the banjo, too, he's holding these

fretted instruments, and his both hands were moving, and this music was coming out. And I remember that I made my dad bring me backstage, and I made Pete let me touch his fingers and his fingerpicks. before I played. I met Pete Seeger a lifetime later and told him the story. He was not as excited about the story as I was. But I think that was the first time. And then later on in the 50s, I started playing guitar. It was not finger-picking. I was not really even aware of the possibilities of it. And when I was in Antioch College in the summer of 1960, or the spring quarter in 1960, when I met Ian Buchanan, who's the guy that really taught me to play. There was a couple of guys in the house that played fingerstyle music, and I got to see it.

And when Ian took me under his wing and taught me to it, that was the deal. The next thing, of course, is when I was working in New York City, and I actually got to see Reverend Davis play. That's awesome. Next question comes from our friend Mark from the Cleveland, Ohio area. He wanted to know. You know, from all of the various offshoots from the airplane where there's been so much solo work and other projects that certainly many of the band members took off on. What are some of your favorites from your co-conspirators?

Wow. Well, you know, the airplane got me into rock and roll. and when when I when Jack and I split off and formed hot tuna I think that we were in some ways going back to our first love

the good news for our first love with that kind of traditional music was is that it was heavily I had a broader palette of colors as a result of my experience in an idiosyncratic rock band but the point that I'm getting at here is I don't think I was really that much interested in where my co-conspirators were going

because I really wasn't interested in their music, although I wish them success. I mean, Jack and I always joke about the Starship. We always quit the band before they make the big bucks, you know, because the Starship was a huge hit band of the 80s, which we were not. But their music didn't really set me on fire in the same way that some of the earlier stuff did. Anyway, does that make any sense? Did I answer that question on some level? Absolutely.

So on a recent episode of this podcast, we had the author and music critic from the Bay Area, Joel Selvin on. Oh, Joel, great guy. And I asked him about his relationship with Bill Graham. And what he said is, essentially, Eventually, Bill always thought that Joel worked for him, and that was sort of the relationship. And I think Joel, you know, took a lot of what Bill said, you know, with a grain of salt, ultimately.

What was your relationship like with Bill Graham? So, yeah, so first of all, I totally get what Joel's talking about there, and I think he hit the nail absolutely right on the head. So Bill was an interesting guy, and, you know, we met him doing a benefit when he was working for the San Francisco mind true. We did a benefit for him. And at the time, he seemed to have organizational capacities that exceeded the norm of the sort of hippie consciousness that was San Francisco at the time. I mean, if you think about the music scene in San Francisco,

it almost was in a parallel universe in a lot of ways. And I remember that some of the people that I met professionally later on that were bands from, you know, blues bands from Chicago, bands from New York, bands from LA, that really thought about us as sort of like bumbling amateurs, which by their standards in some ways we were, but we did okay. Anyway, Bill had a way of sort of like pulling those bumbling amateur threads together.

Again, he started a very successful, you know, the film war, which lives on in a way to this day. He just kind of had a ways of getting things. done. But like Joel said, I think Bill always treated everybody as if they worked for him, which is why ultimately we parted company with him as a management company. But Bill just got things done. And there was something, in spite of his sometimes arrogant abrasiveness, it was something endearing about that possibilities. I mean, Chad Helms, it was sort of like his counterpart with the Avalon Ballroom and stuff, he got things done in his way, but not in his, not in

in as predictable a way. So you're always looking towards the future in terms of new musicians to play with, to inspire you, you keep it fresh that way. Who are some of the people on the horizon that you want to talk about? Wow. So mostly I think the stuff that sets me on fire is singer-songwriters. I'm really more interesting in the tell than I am in guitar licks, although you never know when a guitar looks that will pop up.

Don't get me wrong. But I think that, again, it's about the story. And earlier this year, a couple months ago, I got, you know, Mary Chapin Carpenter has been kind of like my poet laureate. And the song word is I like tend to be female. Gretchen Peters is another one. But so Mary Chapin Carpenter did this album, I guess a couple years ago, I was unaware of it.

I just stumbled on it somehow, called Between the Dirt and Stars. And so I immediately got it on Tidal, which is a high-end streaming service, and I bought the vinyl and all. You know, when I go crazy when I get stuff, I had to get the vinyl and the CD and all this stuff. And, you know, I've been listening to her since the 80s

when she put her first record out. I'm just the stories that she tells, you know. She's had pop hits also, but they're not the most. interesting songs to me, lyrically. But the poetry of her tale just sets me on fire. And that's the kind of stuff I'm always looking for.

You know, Karine Polwar, she's a Scotch, folk-ish songwriter, very fond of her. Gretchen Peters, again, great songwriter. And that's the kind of stuff that I look for. Who did you learn your storytelling from?

Wow. I think that, I think I just liked You know, it's kind of funny because on some levels when I was a kid I was very shy, I knew you'd have to make me talk But once I get talking, I like to talk And we've talked for a while, so you know kind of know how I am And I've always liked reading

I've always enjoyed reading and I've always enjoyed a good story I don't think I've specifically set out to find that But that's the kind of thing that draws me in if there's a good story to be heard. Or tell. Talk about the latest project on Red House Records, if you would. So we're not with Red House anymore. That's an interesting story.

All right, the Red House was bought by Compass, and Compass is a big record company, and that's a national company. They really don't care very much about us. The good news for me is I don't owe them anything. Hatoona does owe them a record. But anyway, so we've been doing stuff with this company. Hurlbutt and I did this stuff for this company out in this French company.

And it's sort of like a boutiquey limited edition kind of thing. They did the River Flows for us, but they do beautiful packaging. They do high-end vinyl. They let us do exactly what we want. And it's kind of like a dream, culture factory's name of the company. It's kind of like a dream situation for artists. You know, we don't depend on record sales. to make our nut, you know?

But to me, people go, well, you could have just been streaming stuff for years like the kids do, and I go, I'm really not interested in that. I like tangible things. I liked, like I told like the Mary Chapin-Carpin-carpenter thing. I got the vinyl. I got the CD, and I downloaded the high end,

you know, the whole deal, you know. So, so, yeah, so, so, so, so Johnny Hurabut and I, we're getting ready to do another thing, another record. I'm not quite sure. I think we're going to call it another life. It's after, yeah,

maybe, I don't know. But in any case, we're going to do the same kind of thing we did with the two River Flows records where we're going to get together at the ranch when I get home from this trip. We're going to get my buddy, Justin Gwip, who's Larry Campbell's production partner and our drummer, it's going to bring a studio down.

And we're just going to play songs until we get enough songs to fill a record. I love it. Well, June 23rd, It's the big opportunity to see Yorma at the city winery. Yorma, I'm so grateful for catching up with you again, and I look forward to seeing your play in Boston on the 23rd.

Well, you better stop by and say hello. You know, I love the city winery folks. You know, it's really interesting. You know, I've been working for them for a long time since they first opened. And I personally think they do a great job. And here's a funny thing for you. In Nashville, you know, I've got so many friends. I couldn't draw flies in Nashville until they opened a city winery.

And, of course, although the last time we played there, we played the big room at the Country Music Hall of Fame, so I guess I'm moving up in the world. But for years, you know, we played the bellcourt. Nobody came. Thank God I know people there, you know. But the City Winery, the City Winery has given me and Jack and my buddies are home, and we appreciate that.

Well, you're the best. You're a treasure. Thank you for being on. Well, thanks. Thanks for taking a walk with me. Walking with you is exhausting. Yeah, stop by and say hello. I'll be up there.

Thank you, my friend. Okay, my brother. Taking a walk with Buzz Night is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we, are and who we become when life makes other plans. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. Listen to a slight change of plans on the I-HeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

wherever you get your podcasts. On a recent episode of the podcast, Money and Wealth with John Hobriant, I sit down with Tiffany the budgetista Aliche to talk about what it really takes to take control of your money. What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people when they're no longer here? We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth, starting with the mindset shifts. Too many of us were never, ever taught. If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for,

you to hear more. Listen to Money and Wealth with John Hope Bryant from the Black Effect Network on the I'd Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Earners, what's up? Look, money is something we all deal with, but financial literacy is what helps turn income into real wealth. On each episode of the podcast, Earn Your Leisure, we break down the conversations you need to understand money, investing, and entrepreneurship. From stocks and real estate to credit, business, and generational wealth, our goal is simple. Make financial literacy accessible for everyone. Because when you understand the system, you can start to build within it.

Open your free I-Hard Radio app. Search Earn Your Leisure and Listen Now. Readers, Katie's finalists, publicists. We have an incredible new episode this week for you guys. We have our girl Hillary Duff in here, and we can't wait for you to hear this episode. They put on Lizzie McGuire 2 a.m. Video on Demand, this guy's bobo-in-a-m. Two a.

Whatever time it is, Lizzie McGuire. And I'm like, a wild batch you were with. It was like a first, like, closet moment from me where I was like... You're like, I don't feel like she's hot, like the rest of them. No, no, no. I was like, she's beautiful. But I'm appreciating her in a different way than these boys are. I'm not like...

But listen to Los Coleristas on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.