The Bobby Bones Show - Kasim Sulton, American Bass Guitarist, Keyboardist and Vocalist-Music History

Episode Date: October 31, 2023

On this episode of Takin' a Walk, Buzz talks with Kasim Sulton. Sam is a bass guitarist, keyboardist, and vocalist. He is best known for his work with the band Utopia. He has also worked with Todd Rundgren, Joan Jett, and others. *****Thank you so much for listening to the TAKIN’ A WALK PODCAST SHOW hosted by Buzz Knight!   Listen to more honest conversations with a compelling mix of guests ranging from musicians, authors, and insiders with their own stories. Get inspired, get motivated, and gain insights from honest conversations every week that can help you with your own journey. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, and be part of this blessed family. Website: https://takinawalk.com/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/thebuzzknight LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/buzzknight  Linkfire: https://lnk.to/takinawalk Please consider subscribing, leaving a review, and sharing it with your friends and family!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins. But the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct? I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing.

Greg Gillespie and Michael Mianini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. this is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped podcast

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed, I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves.

We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Ikew, I got you. And I'm I go on. My next guest, it's Will Farrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever.

He goes, just give it a shot. But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck.

Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A May 2nd, country's biggest stars will be in Austin, Texas. At our 26, IHeart Country Festival presented by Capital One, C, C. Cain Brown. Parker McCollum Riley Green Shaboozy Dylan Scott Russell Dickerson

Gretchen Wilson Chase Matthew Lauren Elena Tickets are on sale now Get yours before they sell out at Ticketmaster.com Taking a walk I'm desperately trying to finish these songs

before the first show Just on a whim I was in my car and I'm like you know let me listen to a songwriting podcast and see what someone who I don't know has to say about songwriting. The guy was saying that if you write a song in 20 minutes, chances are it's not very good and no one's ever going to hear it. And yeah, I wrote Set Me Free in 20 minutes. It just came out of the clear blue. Welcome to the Taking a Walk podcast, an audio diary of insightful conversations with music insiders. A missed episode, Buzz Night talks with Cassum Sultan.

Bass guitarist, writer, keyboardist, and vocalist best known for his work with Todd Rundgren and Utopia. Kassum continues to have a distinguished career over four decades, and chances are music he's been involved in is part of a daily playlist in your life. To date, Sulton has played and sung on albums that have sold more than 85 million copies. He's toured with Hall & Oates, Cheap Trick, and Joan Jett, along with the late Meatloaf. Let's join Buzz Night next with Cassam Sultan. Well, let's enter our virtual Take-in-A-Walk studio, and special guests, please enter and sign in, please. Hi, everyone, I'm Cassam Sultan,

a multi-instrumentalist singer-songwriter, dad, grandfather, widow, I don't know, carpenter sometimes, lawnmower, dishwasher, chief cook and bottle washer. I love it. It's so nice to see you again, albeit virtually. You too, buddy. It's good to see you. Now, when you're in a recording process, writing process, do you ever get stuck and literally break yourself free by going for a walk?

Actually, I go for a drive, and I used to do that quite often. Now I take my dog for a walk. And sometimes that helps. Most of the time, it's more about just being diligent and trying to force through a writer's block, you know, which I'm not and I'm not and never have been a very prolific songwriter. I kind of, you know, I pain over my work. And a lot of times people say, you know, you're sacrificing a product for perfection. But, you know, everyone is different.

But somebody told me you wrote the hit song, Set Me Free in 20 minutes. Is that true? Yeah, you know, it's really fun. funny too because I was going somewhere. I had to go to an event in the Bronx last night. I live on Staten Island, and I had to go to the Bronx. And I was looking for, and we could talk about this in a minute, but I'm about to go on tour with the fix. I'm opening for them on their North American tour coming up in November. And I have a couple of new songs that I want to. I want to debut during my opening set, because it's just me, solo acoustic. And so I'm desperately trying to finish these songs before the first show. And just on a whim, I was in my car, and I'm like, you know, let me listen to a songwriting podcast and see what someone who I don't know has to say about songwriting.

And this guy was saying, I'm not going to mention the podcast, but the guy was saying that if you write a song in 20 minutes, chances are it's not very good. And no one's ever going to hear it. And yeah, I wrote Set Me Free in 20 minutes, all but the bridge. It just came out of the clear blue. and it was at a particularly difficult time in my career. I was signed to Bearsville Records as a solo recording artist. I desperately wanted to do a solo album, and Albert Grossman didn't feel that my material was ready yet,

that I still had some growing to do as a songwriter, and he didn't want to, let me have a solo album or record a solo album. And my attitude was, look, then fine, then let me go somewhere else. Let me find another record label that's willing to put a record out for me. And he said, okay, that's fine. You owe me X amount of dollars and 10% of any future royalties you have on your first record. and I just thought that that was just, you know, a horrible, horrible thing.

It's business, you know, that's the business that we have chosen. And that's why I wrote, set me free to get out of a record contract. What was that like dealing with Albert Grossman? And did you sort of get intertwined by the nature of that relationship somehow inside the Bob Dylan and band to camp at all? You know, Albert, Albert was a fascinating guy. It was really, really a really,

a really very interesting man. You know, I mean, the history of between him and Bob Dylan and Janice Joplin and the band and Jesse Winchester and countless other acts. And the fact, that he had been around since the very early 60s. You know, it was, you were kind of in awe being in his presence,

because he was certainly a force to be reckoned with. But he never really, my dealings with Albert were strictly on a solo basis and through Utopia. and Albert never really, he never liked the fact that Todd had a band that took him away from his work with his solo work. So Albert was always begrudgingly accepting of Utopia because that was Todd's, you know, that was Todd's little side project. And again, Albert would have been fine. if Todd never had a band in terms of something or a project that took him away from his solo albums. But Todd always had, it was always separate.

It was Utopia was Utopia and Todd Solo was Todd Solo. Yeah, I think I saw that Roger Powell from Utopia, he said that Bearsville wished that Utopia had never existed. Is that true? Yeah, I mean, that's basically what I just said, you know. Albert didn't, he did not think that Utopia was anything that had any legs. He just thought that it was a distraction from Todd's solo material, which was a lot more successful than Utopia. Was that a motivation for you guys? Um, no, I don't think it was a motivation. I don't think we thought of it either way. If anything, it was, it was disappointing. Um, you know, we were always disappointed that, uh, that, uh, bearsville didn't take utopia, more seriously. Um, but, you know, we just, we, you know, soldiered on and, and did our tours and did our records. And, um, um,

You know, I have a letter up in my music room from Albert to the band about one of the records that we did in his saying that he doesn't think it's going to be a very commercial success. So therefore, Bersville doesn't want to put it out. He doesn't like the way it sounds. He doesn't like the songs. And he basically turned the record down. So when did you first meet Todd Rudgren? So I got wind of that Utopia was looking for a bass player, John Siegler, who was the bass player. The band had gone from a seven-piece band with three keyboard players and Todd and background singers and, you know, Muggy Klingman and John.

Seagler and Roger Powell and John Eve Labatt, Willie Wilcox, Todd, and at one point Luther Vandros and David Lasley were the background singers in Utopia, yeah, and and and the and the Todd was doing the record Faithful and and which was a solo record and John Siegler decided that he was going to pursue a career in advertising music, creating music for commercials and television and movies. And so he left the band. He didn't want to tour anymore. A friend of mine, Michael Cayman, who I had known through Cherry Vanilla, was contacted by Roger Powell, and Roger asked Michael if he knew of any bass players. It's a very very,

convoluted story and Michael called Earl Slick up who was a very good friend of mine and I grew up with Earl and said if you know any bass players Todd Rungren's looking for one for his band Utopia. I just happened to see Slick and he mentioned it to me and he said if you want to audition call Michael Kamenup which is what I did and then the next day I was on an Adirondack Trailways bus up to Woodstock to rehearse with Roger Powell and Willie Wilcox, the keyboard player and the drummer, for Todd's return from India. He was mopeding through India at that time.

It was due back the next day, and we were going to, I was going to audition for the band. So that was the first. That was April, like 8, 9, 10, or 11. of 1976. So that's the first time I met, Todd, to answer your question. That's a very long answer to your question. So in your years with Todd, what traits did he teach you or rub off on you in terms of either his work process, the way he wrote songs or his disciplines?

what did you learn from Todd? You know, I mean, I really cut my teeth in that band, you know, everything up to that point was kind of getting ready to be in a band like that, a national recording touring band. So I, you know, while I had always dabbled in, you know, in trying to record songs and trying to write songs and playing live, I really, everything that I learned, the foundation of my entire career was based around what I learned in those first five, six, seven years and being in Utopia. Todd was, it didn't necessarily set out to sit me down and say, okay, son, well, here's how you record a bleed vocal. And this is how you write a, a background part and this is where I placed the microphone to record a guitar amp.

And no, it was nothing like that. It was just all about, you know, watching him, watching him work, watching how he worked with other people. And, you know, I mean, just taking that and making it my own. One of the most interesting thing was things were right after I joined the band, I was asked by Todd to play on a record that he was producing. And that was Meatloaf, Bad Out of Hell. And that was probably, I think, might have been like the second record that I'd ever recorded. And it was fascinating watching him as a producer. arranger for all those songs like Bad Out of Hell and Paradise by the Dashboard Lights,

two out of three ain't bad, took the words right out of my mouth, and how he worked as a producer and as an arranger and as kind of like a, you know, a leader in the studio when it came to recording somebody else's music. So that was fascinating. And I learned, I learned so much about how, you know, how to make records and how to put a band together and stuff like that. So, yeah, I learned a lot from time. What's in the secret sauce to an album like that that makes it just, you know, from start to finish, just so unbelievable? You know, I think that things like that, you don't really necessarily really, realize it at the time, that you're kind of making, you know, something that's going to be iconic

and, you know, and last for a very, very long time. The secret sauce, it's just chemistry, you know, it's a group of people that get put together, and the sum is greater than the parts. So you are, you're just like a little, you're a little piece of it. But everyone's contribution together makes this really, really special thing. And I don't think it's anything that you can really, like, there's no cookie cutter. There's no mold for it. It just either happens or it doesn't, you know.

Do you recall where you were when you first heard a song from that album on the radio? Yeah, I was in my car. I was driving. I had a little Alpha Romeo GTV, and I was driving up to Woodstock to start a tour. I was on the Palisades Parkway, and I was listening to WNEW, as a matter of fact. And the song came on, and I said to myself, that sounds vaguely familiar. I know I've heard that song somewhere before, and I could not put it. my finger on it for the first, I don't know, 30 seconds or something like that. And then I said,

oh, that's the record that I did with Todd. It was bad out of hell, as a matter of fact. It was the song, Bad Out of Hell. And I thought, well, that's really cool. They got on N.EW. That's great. That was a milestone in any musician's life to have your record played on W&E, especially in the afternoon drive the place where rock lives there you go yeah what a special feeling hearing it my god yeah uh that was it was uh it was very interesting and then the album just exploded and uh you know um the rest is history so it sounds like scott muny was the one from n e w was the first one that played it maybe possibly i think it might have played in cleveland before that I think Kid Leo might have grabbed the hold of it and started the ball rolling.

I know there is an article out there about where it really took hold, but I think by the time that Scott played it or anybody at N.E.W. played it, it was already something that people were calling up, and it's when people used to call up and say, I want you to play this record, you know, those days. Yeah, oh, that's wonderful. I think there was a Cleveland connection, not only with Kid Leo, but for some reason, I think in the music distribution side of it, there was some Cleveland. Well, it was Steve Popovich from, who had Cleveland International, which was a subsidiary of epic, epic records. And it was Steve who, you know, they tried to get RCA to buy the record.

They tried to get CBS to buy the record. They tried to get Warner Brothers to buy the record. Nobody wanted it. And this was after it was done. No one wanted it. And that's when Cleveland International and Steve Popovich heard it and heard something there and decided that they were going to get behind it. Again, it's like I said a few minutes ago, which is that the whole thing about, you know,

the stars just a line. and it becomes something that all the pieces just kind of just fit together and the puzzle becomes whole. Why is it that the song, the very last time, and then more than a feeling, is one of the greatest segues of all time? Maybe because we consciously, I think we were a little tired at that, that point of making records that more people weren't, weren't listening to. You know, we wanted to reach a larger audience. And Todd had this great idea. He said, why don't we do this?

Why don't we listen to the, the Billboard top, well, take a look at what's the Billboard Top 10 at that particular time in that particular time. in history. And I think it was like 78 or 79. That might have been 78. And let's just try to cop that vibe of those songs. Like if there's, you know, for the life of me, I can't remember what other songs were out at that time.

There might have been some R&B song that was very popular. Boston was huge and more than a feeling was, it might have been a number one hit. pretty sure it was. So we just tried to craft songs that were like that, you know. And, and I think we did a pretty good job, you know. And that's where most of that record came from, was just taking a look at what was popular and what was getting the most traction on radio and in the charts at that particular moment in time, and then just copying them, you know, just trying to make them our own, rewrite them, if you will.

You spent some time with Joan Jett and the Black Hearts. Tell me how wonderful that experience was. You know, I love Joan. She was fantastic to work with. And Ricky Bird, the guitar player and the Black Hearts, was still very, very close to this day. As a matter of fact, I have a show with him on Saturday that I'm doing. But that was about three and a half years, I think.

Tommy Price, who was another fellow Staten Islander. We grew up together, and Tommy was a very, very in-demand drummer in the early 80s. Everybody was using Tommy on their record. He got a call to play with Joan. Joan needed a bass player. Tommy recommended me. because we were best friends. And I came in, and then I was in Jones Band

for the next, I guess, three and a half years from 86 to 90. And then how about your time working with the Great Hall and Oates? One of the best bands that I've ever been in. There were two gentlemen, besides Darrell and John, there were two gentlemen in that band that are no longer with us, that I was and remain in awe of their musicality,

and that was T-Bone Woke, who was the drummer. I mean, I'm sorry, T-Bone Woke, who was the bass player. He was the bass player for the longest time. When I was in the band, T-Bone took guitar duties, and so I played bass. But just a brilliant musician and a lovely, lovely guy. And Bobby Mayo, the keyboard player, who was one of the best keyboard players, piano organ players that I've ever worked with in my entire life, to this day.

Just guys with the well, there's no bottom to the well of their knowledge of, you know, of music. And so that was one of the best bands that I was ever in. The two or three years that I played with Daryl and John were, that was a great, great, great time. When I think of your well of music, and I think of diversity, of styles and interests, you know, I think of the work that you did around the Broadway,

the Twyla Tharp project, you know, in particular. So what things that you haven't done do you want to do? You know, I was just toying with the idea of doing a big band. There's a guy by the name of Charlie Rosen who does, is called the 8-bit big band. And they do video game music with a big band, like, Mario Brothers and some other stuff that's like just out completely out there. Also, this other guy that does a big band, he does Zappa and Todd music with like a 30-piece orchestra.

So I always wanted, I had this idea that I would do a bunch of songs that I've had over my career, not just solo, but with other artists, with a big band. So that's something that I would love to do. It's just, it's just so cost prohibitive, you know, to put together something like that. And then do a show, it's a lot of money to put a band like that together. So yeah, that's something that I would love to do. As you contemplate going on the road, the upcoming tour with the fix and you think of live performance. Do you have three maybe concert performances you as a fan went to that stand out in memory, you know, whether it be the greatness of the artist or the venue or the whole package? Yeah. So the first concert that I really

that I distinctly remember was Led Zeppelin at Madison Square Garden in 1970. I want to say 72 or 73. It was right after Led Zeppelin 3 came out. And I went, I guess I was either 14 or 15 years old. And they were just amazing. They were so good. Another one was the dolls at the Mercer Art Center in Manhattan. It was a very small club and seeing the dolls, and I'm just like, I had no clue what that was about.

But I remember it made an impression on me. And the other one was, it was either Jeff Beck at, Carnegie Hall for the Orange album with Bob, Bob Tench and Cozy Powell, when they did that record. Or Cactus on Staten Island. They used to be a venue on Staten Island called The Ritz. And everybody came through here. I saw the James Gang there.

Cactus Mountain at Woolman Rink was that was just amazing just a three-piece band it was just so big

and I just remember saying you know but boy I can't wait to be doing that I can't wait to be on a stage like that that was my dream that's awesome so you're looking forward to this tour coming up Yeah, I'm really excited about it. I know the guys in the fix pretty well,

and they were kind enough to offer me the opening slot. And it's about 15 or 16 shows that I'm doing over the course of November. And, you know, it's interesting as an opening act. You kind of have a little bit of a captive audience. Nobody's leaving while you play. So I'm very excited about being able to play for some new people and hope that it goes well. So in closing, as such a student of it all and someone with such great disciplines, if someone's listening to this

and they are working their way up the music ladder as a musician, what advice do you have for them? You know, it's such a different time right now. There are so many more avenues to kind of get your stuff out there and to be heard and to create and make a record. You don't need to be in a recording studio anymore. You could do it in your bedroom like Billy Elish and her brother and become hugely successful. Or you can build an audience by playing live and then working social media.

You know, Todd said, one thing to me when I was, had just joined the band. I'll never forget we were in Paris. And I might have been playing the hippodrome in Paris, some large venue. And we were having a chat on the side of the stage in the middle of the show, actually. I forget what was going on that we had time to talk in the middle of the show. And he said, you know, he said, the real trick is knowing when to stop. It's like if it's not happening for you, knowing when it's time to do something else.

He said a lot of people just keep banging their head against the wall when it's kind of not going to happen. But having said that, if you have the strength and the fortitude and the conviction and the belief that what you are doing is really, really good, then just keep doing it. Thank you for the joy of the music that you continue to give us, and good luck on the tour. Thank you so much, Buzz.

I really appreciate you taking the time to talk. Thanks for listening to Taking a Walk. To stay up to date with the podcast, subscribe to our newsletter at takinga walk.substack.com. Find us on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins, but the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice in so-ins, correct?

I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Gillespie and Michael Ranchini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police.

As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his life. target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Wood. My next guest,

it's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. He goes, just give it a shot. But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right. It wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Yeah. Listen to thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. It's Financial Literacy Month and the podcast Eating While Broke is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer Zoe Spencer and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum-Pierre,

as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. There's an economic component to communities thriving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they failed. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.