The Bobby Bones Show - Lots to Say: Life in the Big City with Super Bowl Champion Amani Toomer

Episode Date: October 1, 2025

Bobby Bones and Matt Cassel travel to NYC and discuss their journey to the city and Matt's history of special treatment as an athlete.  Super Bowl Champion Amani Toomer drops by and Matt recalls playing together in the Giants-Patriots Super Bowl.  How did Tom Brady fuel the Giants' victory? Amani reveals a postgame experience with Brady that he'll never forget.  Bobby asks about going from high school, to Michigan, then to the NFL and the Giants.  Matt asks about playing under Tom Coughlin and the difficulties of coaches having favorites.  Amani remembers the experience of being an athlete in New York.  What does Amani think about the current Giants' team and QB Jaxson Dart? Bobby talks more about going out for dinner in NYC.  Matt remembers playing in NY and other cities that players could not go out in.  Onto NFL Week 4, Bobby thinks the Bengals may need to go get a QB.  How does Bobby feel about Bad Bunny being the Super Bowl Halftime Show? Bobby and Matt refresh their Power Rankings before discussing AJ Brown not being happy. Bobby wraps up with being at Penn State's white out this past weekend. Lots to Say with Bobby Bones and Matt Cassel is part of the NFL Podcast Network See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Search 40s and free agents and listen now. Lots to Say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle is a production of the NFL and IHeart Podcasts. We got lots to say. Yeah, we got lots to say. Now here's Bobby and Matt. We are at the NFL corporate office in New York. It's the first time we've been here.

New York City, baby. Yeah, it's not winter, so we like being here. It's actually beautiful. full out. The first note I have on our episode today, I wrote Castle Raw Dog. Why do you think that is? Castle Raw Dog. I mean, I've got a lot of thoughts going through my brain, but they're probably, none of them are accurate. We flew up here together because we came to do some podcasting, what they call up fronts for the show. And as we're flying up, I look over at you. You have no headphones. No headphones. And you're doing crossword puzzles on your phone. I sure was. It was the most 85-year-old person thing I've ever seen.

You know what? I've got to get my wordal in every day, and I've got to get my crossword in. Why don't you bring headphones? You're going full rod on. I had headphones, dude. Because I'm one of those guys that I'm a conversationalist. I thought we were going to sit on the plane, get to know each other even on a deeper level. Immediately I see you five minutes into the plane ride. Boop. Boop. Yeah. Right there. You probably were watching a show. Were you watching a show? I went to sleep. Well, you at first, you were doing something. I have a job. I have a job in the morning. I did that job. That's right. We woke up very early. I knew we would have an evening. and I was like, I'm going to get on the plane, take a nap, and I took a nap. Yeah, I was ready to conversate. Yeah, so then it took a hard left turn. And so then I was like, you know what?

I'm just going to sit here and be an old man right now and you're going to dominate these crossword puzzles. I woke up to go to the bathroom and I walked up to the, and I looked over and you were on your phone doing a crossword puzzle. Yes, that's exactly how I was doing. And I was like, no headphones on a crossword puzzle. Yeah, so good. Nothing says Castle more.

What did you guys do last night? We went around the corner from where we were staying and went to like, this pub slash sports bar. It was great. Got a seat right up there. Got to watch the games. It was a fantastic meal. It went cheeseburger with bacon on it. Yeah, it was a cheat day for sure. Do you not do that when you're with your wife? No, I'd probably have the salmon. Just kind of make, make her think that I'm trying to be fit and definitely up to the task. I heard, and you can tell me if this is true or not, that it was hard to get a table. And a fan, a Patriots fan recognized you, and that's how you got a table. Yes, at first we walked in. And there was like seven,

booths available. All of them supposedly reserved. And as we sat down for at least the first 30 minutes and ordered some apps, still, nobody in those booths. And then finally this gentleman came up who must have been a manager or worked there. Boston guy. Love Boston guys on the East Coast. Came up and say, hey, Castle, you guys want a table? I was like, yeah, we sure do. And we went out, got a table, and the rest is history. When you were starting at quarterback, either for the Patriots or the Chiefs. Could you do the call in, get a reservation anywhere in town because you were the guy? I hated doing that, especially when I was in Boston. I was obviously, I wasn't the starter for the first three years. I was because Brady went down my fourth year. But that city was so electric in

terms of they love their sports. It was the ultimate sports town. So you could go in anywhere. And as soon as they recognize that you're part of the Patriots, you would never pay for a meal. But how would they know? Obviously, you're a big guy. Yes, and I'd say more so early on it was when you went in with the big guys, right? The 300-pound guy and then all of a sudden they recognize a face or something, and they come up, hey, you guys want to drink, this, that, and the other, it was fantastic. You never wore your jersey? I always tried too early on.

Like, that was my deal. Like, maybe they'll notice me if I wear the 16 jersey with the castle on the back, too, and just really put a stamp of approval on it. And then Kansas City was great. You could call basically anywhere, and they'd get you in. another great sports town. And it was a good time just understanding, yes, you had a little pool because you're a starting quarterback. At the same time, I never tried to really take advantage of it unless people came in and we had a big party.

And I was like, hey, yeah, this is Matt Castle from Kansas City Chiefs. Did you have to call yourself? No, I definitely have my agent or somebody call. Yeah. Because if you get rejected, it doesn't hurt as bad. It doesn't hurt as bad. But it's so awkward. It's awkward.

But how many times do you do that? Let's be honest. I have never done it as myself. I've called before under, hey, I'm representing Bobby, like in dire times. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've done the fake voice.

I've done the fake voice. This is Bobby Bones. I am representing Bobby Bones who happens to be a toe. And my deep voice is no better than my normal voice. Yeah, they definitely heard your voice immediately. It just hurts when you get rejected

or when they're like, who? That's always a little ego punch. And I never do it unless it's like dire. Like someone's in town. Right. I would say about an 85% success rate. Yeah. Because you can all, once the greatest story is, because in L.A., nobody cares about anything.

Right. Like, they care about celebrities, but they don't care about anything because there's celebrities everywhere. Right. And so we were in Malibu, and this is like my fourth year on American Idol, and we wanted to go to the sushi place that's really famous. Oh, I know exactly where you're talking about. Anybody? Nobu, thank you. Nobu.

There's the Nobu and Malibu. And so my agent calls and it's like, hey, and I'm like fifth string on American Idol. Like I'm on every episode, but I'm not anything. You're on American Idol. Right. It doesn't matter. And so he calls and he goes, hey, I'm representing Bobby Bones. Is there any way we can get him a table?

And they go, please hold. He waits on hold for like 45 minutes. My theory is they couldn't figure out who I was, so they didn't want to say no. And so they didn't say no. We pull up and we're in a minivan. and all the paparazzi's out there. And when the minivan pulls up the paparazzi, goes, this ain't for us. Put their cameras down, we walk in.

The least famous free reservation I ever got was that one. There was one time when we came to New York City, I was coming to New York City, and I asked Brady where I should go eat. He's like, go to this one restaurant, and I forget what it was. It was really hard to get into. Well, I thought he made the reservation for me, right? So I walk in, I'm with my wife. We go in, and the matri-D looks at it.

I say, yeah, I've got a reservation for Castle. and they go, no. I said, is it under Tom Brady? They said, yes, but where's Tom? And I said, I think he's coming in just a little bit, but we're here. Dude, he never showed up. They sat me at like one of the nicest tables in the middle of this restaurant. It was packed.

And I'm just laughing because they thought Tom was coming. And he put it under his name. I was like, what a slap. That's a little bit dirty dog, too. Yeah, he just screwed me. The 26 NFL Draft is here. and the NFL Daily podcast has it covered from all angles. Join me, Greg Rosenthal, and Jordan Roderig after night one on Thursday.

Nick Shook joins me night two Friday and then Sunday to recap everything that went down over the three days in Pittsburgh. We'll tell you who won the draft and which players were my favorite picks. Listen to NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Daniel Jeremiah. And I'm Greg Rosenthal. And this is 40s and free agents.

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Listen to 40s and free agents on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. All right. we're about to bring in Amani Tumer on Instagram, Amani Tumer underscore 81. You played, we're going to start with your question. I know you're going to bring up the Super Bowl. What kind of player was Amani in your memory of playing? He was one of the most consistent guys we went up against. I mean, his route running ability, he had a great feel for Zone, but also could beat

man. He was also a bigger wide receiver. I think he's like 6, 3, 200 plus pounds. So it was him, it was Plaxico. they had, when you played against them, you had to realize that they didn't have us have one, dude. They had two guys. And he always had big games against us, too. He was that guy that would show up on game day, was a true professional. Great, great guy, because I knew him off the field, incredible person off the field. But when you got it on the field, he was just

one of those guys that could go take over a game because of his talents. And the crazy part is at 6-3, he also was an incredible special teamer. Like, he's a guy that could get a punt and take it to the house, which you don't see a lot of that with guys that are 6-3. He's just all-round football player, man. Hey, so first things first, Amani, and I'm going to pass this over to Matt, because it's what we're talking about before you got here. He's got a little beef. Yeah, you guys couldn't.

Well, you couldn't let us win that Super Bowl. Oh, my goodness. And I wasn't even playing, so at the same time I was sitting there and going, man, it would have been that undefeated season. It would have been historical. And you guys just upset everybody's dreams. Well, you know what? Nobody likes, and you know, the thing about it is this,

only people that wanted you guys to win with the Patriots, everybody else in the league. That's true. I agree with that. Because it makes everybody look bad when one team wins at all. And then it was like we were double-digit underdogs. We played you guys the last game of the season. And all the stars played the entire game.

Exactly. Both teams. Both teams. And both teams, like we were locked in at number five. Yeah. You guys were locked in at number one, obviously. Yeah. With the by week.

With the buy week. Didn't care. Either team didn't care. And I thought that was like, that was one of the most exciting games I played in. And I just remember after that. We were so, I was so down and dejected after we lost to you guys in the last preseason game because we'd beat the Denver Broncos like in 98. Right.

And so we'd done a good job of like stopping records like that. And we'd beat a lot of undefeated teams other than that as the Giants when I was playing there. So I thought this was just got another time to do we're going to do that. And I was so dejected. And it was a really, we had the opportunity to play you guys again. And I remember talking to Spaggs on the way back from the Super Bowl after we won. And he was like, yeah, we didn't show the Patriots everything that we had because we thought we might play him again. In that final season game?

In the final season game. He said that. So he had that idea going into it. Exactly. Yeah. And I'm like, wow, I didn't. I mean, I thought you play to win every game, throw it everything out there because as players, that's what you have to do. Yeah.

Was there a message like before the Super Bowl of, hey, were the underdogs or was it just for professionals? go win the game. Well, we were so disrespected. I remember Tom Brady had a comment when Plexcoe Burr said he predicted us to win. And he said that the score would be like 17, 2117. And then Tom Brady goes, we're only going to score 17? We were like, okay, all right, yeah, okay, we got you, Tom. Yeah, yeah, we got you. Do you think that that game, though, that week 16 game, that gave you guys that momentum going into playoffs because again you're a fifth seed you had to play all the way through but you guys started to put it on people it was the funny thing about it was I was so mad that we lost that game but everybody else was like lifted and I remember thinking there's no

honor in a loss how does this happen how does this happen that you know people are happy that we lost and I was just so upset and it definitely gave us that extra boost because I remember we were down in Tampa and we played our first game and we were down I think 14 nothing and I remember we were down 14 nothing to Tampa in Tampa on the road and I remember Plexco saying we didn't take the undefeated Patriots to the mat to lose to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and then we just rattled off points and we ended up making it not even a game but it was uh it it definitely was in the back of our If we can play with the Patriots who destroyed everybody, we can beat anybody. Because we're talking about the Super Bowl, after that game, you do beat an undefeated team as massive underdogs.

How long until you go to sleep? It was so funny. I was like, I'm going to be up all night. I'm going to be partying the entire night. I was so stressed out and so tired that me and my girlfriend, now my wife, we were like, yeah, we're going to party. It got to like 11 o'clock. and we were just like, I'm sorry, guys. I was straight to sleep.

What did your after party look like? Because I know that the Patriots Robert Kraft was ready for a Super Bowl champion undefeated season because we had Earthwind and Fire. We had Lionel Richie. We had all kinds of acts coming up on stage. And everybody's like, man, this. Oh, wait, they still played even though they lost.

Oh, 100% because they've already hired these people to come in the entertainment. And I was always wondering, what was your after party? Like, I don't even remember. I don't even know if we had one because just like I said, I was so tired. But I remember one of your running backs invited Brandon Jacobs. No way. On the field before the game.

He said, hey, why don't you got to come to our after party? No way. We have this person. We have that person. Oh, and I have the best Tom Brady story. The best Tom Brady story. So we win the game. You know, this is probably the worst, the hardest loss he's ever had.

100%. And so I'm walking by you guys' bus. Tom gets off the bus. He comes over to me and goes, I'm standing with one of my high school friends. And he's like, you know, and I'm just so proud of you guys. You guys won the game. You had such a great career. I'm so proud. I'm sitting there like, that is the moment. I realize Tom Brady's a much better man than I am. Because I lost the Super Bowl when we lost the Ravens. I didn't want to talk to anybody. My best. friend in Michigan was a player on the on the Ravens his name's Rob Payne he was like on the practice squad or whatever I didn't talk to him for years after that and Tom came up to be right after the game I'm like he's a much better man than I am because I could not have done that

but he was so gracious and I'll never forget that about him and um you know I went to college with him we're from both from the Bay Area so we have a little bit of history but man he's he's a great dude speaking of college your dad goes to Ohio State You don't. You go the opposite. You go to Michigan. How uncomfortable was that for him? You know, it's funny, I don't remember, like, he told me he went to Ohio State. I don't know if he did go to Ohio State, you know what I mean? But I, my family's from Ohio, we're originally from Akron. And so I just, Ohio State was terrible when I was there. Like, they were down for years. People looked at Ohio State back then, like, they looked now at,

like, a Penn State or, not a Penn State, because Penn State's a really good school. I'm not going to say that. a team that once was good. Rutgers, they started football. Iowa. 1800s. Iowa. Nebraska is a good. It's a good one.

That's on the nose. They're like a Nebraska. Yeah. You know what I mean? The team that has a lot of history, you know they once were good way back when, you just can't remember it. Yeah.

But you also, you grew up in the Bay Area, like you said, you went to a school, Dela South. Yes. At that point, what was the record of consecutive wins when you were there? We had won 44,

and then my last year, my senior year, And then my senior year, my last game, we lost to Pittsburgh in the Coliseum and the championship. And then they won for like 12 years, like 160 some games. It's absurd. So I was like fifth or, well, it was probably between five and eight years in the league. Yeah. And they finally lost.

And I was like, well, at least we're not the worst team anymore. But yeah, it was a great experience. I loved Dillis Al. I still, I love the football program. Bob Ladiser was a guy that kind of shaped my, he did more to shape my mentality than, not more than my father, my family, my brother, but in terms of not being family,

he was definitely the one. In the end, do you end up setting records at Michigan, but when you first started as a freshman, I don't know if you played your freshman or if you redshirted, like when did you actually- I played, man, what are you talking about? I didn't sit the bench. No, I played, I played.

I played. I don't know how quickly you adjusted and thought, oh, I can play with these guys. I thought I could play with them. I mean, sometimes I get a little ahead of myself. So I thought I could play from the beginning. I never thought I couldn't play with them. And when I got in the games, then I kind of realized there was another level I had to go. I was like 100, I think I was 180 pounds, 170 pounds.

And I'm trying to run in there and block like legitimate defense. to play like bigger seniors. And I remember my first year. I just kept, I'd try. I'd throw it in there. But I'd go in there and I'd try to stock block somebody and they would just toss me aside. And I just got used to it. But that's what I realized.

Maybe I need some development going on here. So you get drafted by the Giants right out of Michigan and you get in there. And so what was that like making that transition? Because Michigan's a big time program. And we know when you come from a program like that, you normally feel prepared for what's to come next, especially from a competitive standpoint. But was there a moment that you were like, man, this is for real,

but a welcome to the NFL moment for you? Yeah, my welcome to the NFL moment was, we never had to learn protections at Michigan. So if the quarterback didn't point the guy, I didn't even pay attention. You're just running. I'm just running. I mean, I know you cover two, the zone, whatever,

you know, you have the route conversions. I understand that. But I didn't understand the protections at all. So I got to the league, and like the first thing they teach you, It's like if you get that quarterback hit, you're getting a bus ticket. That means you're going to get on the first thing smoking out of town because that quarterback is the franchise.

So I had to learn protections. I had to really learn how to run routes because defensive line in the NFL, I mean, they don't give quarterback's time to sit back there. We still have these max protection, two receiver routes in Michigan that we thought, oh, so it's going to, you know, nobody's going to get home. And they didn't at Michigan. But in the league, they get home. Was training camp old school back then?

Oh, yeah. And dorm it up, that kind of thing? We did it for four weeks of two a days, right? No, four weeks of two a days. And then we had, we came like right after the combines and had a rookie mini camp. Then we had three weeks before, like, we just, it was like, I think before I stepped on the field in the pros in preseason, I think I had played more football than I did my entire time in college because we were working. so much. It was ridiculous. But it got me prepared and that's why I look at now and I'm thinking how do these guys get prepared? If I didn't have the two a days, if I didn't have the all this

stuff coming from a non-NFL offense, I don't know how I would have transitioned. And I don't know if I would even. It took me three years to really see the field in the NFL just because of the difference of style, let alone the athleticism, let alone what the things that matter so much in the NFL, the little minute techniques, I wouldn't have had a time to really adapt to them or would have been open to them. So I feel for a lot of these younger players. It's a way tougher league to crack. And that's why you see a lot of players playing longer into their careers because it's

hard to get some of these younger players up to speed. The 2026 NFL draft is here. And the NFL Daily podcast has it covered from all angles. Join me, Greg Rosenthal, and Jordan Rodriguez. night one on Thursday. Nick Shook joins me night two Friday and then Sunday to recap everything that went down over the three days in Pittsburgh. We'll tell you who won the draft and which players were my favorite picks. Listen to NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Daniel Jeremiah. And I'm Greg

Rosenthal. And this is 40s and free agents. The games may be over, but the NFL never stopped. This is my favorite part of the calendar. Yeah, mine too, Greg, free agency, the combine, the NFL draft, Pro Days, trades. This is where teams reshape their future. This is where Daniel Jeremiah makes his money. On 40s and free agents, we break down every move that actually matters. From my draft evaluations, mock drafts, and team fits to my top 101 free agents and how real rosters are built, cap space, contracts, and all the tough decisions included.

You got quarterbacks on the move. We got teams rebuilding. and it's hope season. Yeah, absolutely. It's hope season. We'll tell you what's real, what's noise, and what it means

for your favorite team. Smart analysis, real conversations every week. I don't know about the smart, but definitely analysis. Listen to 40s and free agents on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

So you're with Tom Coughlin. He's known as... Oh, he's a badass. He's a beast. You know, I've been part of a program with Belichick. And I sit similar in their approach. Did that way?

Where on you, did you feel like his messaging sometimes to the team, like, after he gets after you? And maybe your team's not doing well or whatever it might be. Do you think that it always hit home? Or was it a difficult environment playing? Like, you had to be mentally tough, basically. You definitely had to be mentally tough. But coming from Michigan and my high school, like, I was used to being coached hard. But one of the things that I wouldn't watch that play Lombardi on Broadway right after I got done playing.

And a lot of the stuff that Tom Coughlin did was the exact same stuff that Vince Lombardi did when he went to the Green Bay Packers from, I think it was from New York. I think it was offense coordinator or defense coordinator from New York and went over to me. And I was just like really disappointed because I was like, Tom, just if you were just told us why you were doing some of the things that you did, we would have all been in line. We would have been, okay, you think this matters. You think all these things matter. and ultimately they do, you're trying to get buy-in from all these players

to make this very privileged position of being an NFL football player and you want it to mean something to everybody. And one thing that I loved about Tom is he made, which you know because you've been in a lot of locker rooms, the starters care.

They care very deeply about what happens. Second team, they care. The special teams guys, they're just on the ride. They just want to, you know, where, you know, where's the party at? You know, what did you buy? What does your car look like? Who do you know?

Who did you meet? Especially been in New York. And so what he did was he got all those people out. And if you didn't buy in 100 percent, I don't know if you were, it didn't care if you were a scout team. It didn't care if you were here for a day, two days. You had to buy into the culture or as you were gone. And I loved it.

I loved it. I really did. And I always look back on the best pro coach I've ever had. It was definitely Tom Coughlin because he was the fairest. You can't be fair to everybody. Right. But you can be any, but Plexical or if, you know, who at the time, you know, had some issues in terms of, you know, showing up meeting time. He would punish him, right?

Eli, if he showed up late, he'd punish him. He'd yell at Eli. Like, he was just, everybody was like, there's no. on our team getting a free lunch. And that was important to the morale of the team. With Coughlin not being a quote players coach, but being a disciplinarian, was there a coach or two that was the opposite? You know, you had good cop, bad cop. Who would you go to? Oh, that on that team? Yeah. No, all his coaches were aligned. They were all there. No, there wasn't any, there was no soft landing there. Mike Sullivan was our kind of soft landing, but he was like,

hey, that's what the head man says. You know what I mean? He was one of those guys. But I had a coach before him and Jim Fossil, rest in peace. But he had favorites. And once you have favorites in a locker room, it doesn't really work, right? Because the favorite will come late to a meeting. Oh, it's all right, buddy. Somebody who doesn't come late to a meeting, it's a $10,000 fine, it's this, it's that. And that really eats up the consistency. You know, I mean, then you're like, well, there's nothing I can do that to have this coach like me. I'm not his favorite. And there's one story I love to tell you. It's Like, I remember when Tom Coughlin first came, and he was just, I mean, you talk about hard, he was ridiculously hard.

And we ended up playing against the Cincinnati Bengals. And we ended up, we were winning the whole game. The Spangles ended up come back and winning. And one of the players came, and then we eliminated us from the playoffs. And the players came up to me, he's like, oh, man, I'm so mad that we lost. I can't believe it. He's like, but I'm happy he lost. And so I was like, there's something wrong here.

This is not really, you can't have our own player, our own team rooting against our head coach. So he was gone, by the way, after that year. But it was just one of those things where, like, you got to get the buy-in. You played your entire career here, which is a blessing in it. I didn't want to. I know. I know. What happened?

You couldn't hold her in. I mean, I didn't have the keys of the car. Hey, we brought you in. You couldn't help her brother. I was trying. I mean, we went in that season pretty. I can't see, geez, we didn't have a lot to work with. But nonetheless, so you're playing your whole career here.

But talk about this media market because so much is made of being in New York in this media market and how it can eat players from the inside out if you're not able to manage that aspect of it. It's funny. Like, I never played anywhere else, but I always thought it was so easy to play here. because it's all the bottom line ultimately is the bottom line. So if you go out there and play well, you don't have nothing to worry about. If you go out there and show the fans that you're all about ball

and you're not about other things, because, you know, New Yorkers, you know, we don't have time for anything, right? They don't have time for, you know, they got the Knicks, the Nets, the Yankees, the Jets, the Giants, the L Islanders. If you're not good, they just put you on the back burner, right? So it's not like,

I remember when I first came here, I'd go to a club trying to get in the club, and I showed him my player card, and they're like, what team you're on? I'm on the Giants. They're like, Giants, man, getting the back. It wasn't one of those things where you're like, oh, Giants, come in.

That's what you expect, like going to the NFL. But they're like, I don't care about the Giants. And so I just feel like you've got to focus on what you can control, which is the only thing that you can control, which is how you play. And so when I look at the Giants, and I look at playing in the city, I thought it was very easy

because there's nobody going to be harder on me than me. And so I was just like, I'm going to do it my thing. I don't care what other people think because I know who I have to look in the mirror every day. And being in New York,

I could be anywhere. I know what I had to do. It's cold here. So when you go to, I think maybe the NFC championship against Green Bay, I think that's a game I'm thinking of where it was like below.

Yeah. Yeah. Is that cold? Does that feel colder than what you're used to when it's really cold here? Yeah, I went to Michigan, right? And I've never felt any cold like that. That was the worst I've ever been.

And I remember we had a guy in our team named Dave Deal, great player, but he was a sweater. So he sweat every time. And no matter where he sweat, right? So we're in the, right by the goalpost right before the game. He has icicles coming from out of his helmet down to the back of his thing. And I'm like, yeah, it's pretty cold. And I remember when we went, we're getting on the bus to go. And they were talking about how cold it was going to be.

And they were getting on the bus. And we had a guy named Jim Phelan who's like, I think he works for the Giants. He thinks he's been working there forever since he's a little kid. But anyway, so we walked to the bus and he has this hot coffee. And he just goes, and he throws it up in the air. And it comes down like snow. And I'm like, why did you do that, Jim? We got a game to play.

Were you a sleeve or no sleeve guy? I was a sleeve guy definitely a sleeve guy I never understood how those dudes could go out there in that type of weather I know the linemen have an extra yeah extra layer it got that uh yeah that insulation

wide receivers when these dudes go out there with no sleeves and it's you know did it help them does a sleeve help when it's that cold it helps a lot yeah it does you'd be surprised how fast the heat goes out of your body when you don't have her sleeve but I remember I remember in the first quarter I ran a route and I'm coming, I'm open, the ball's coming, and I try to lift my arms like

ordinarily do, and my arms didn't move, and the ball hit right off my chest, and I'm like, okay, this is serious. Because you never really know, you're always kind of evaluating how really cold is it, and it was, it was brutal. We got two final questions for you. So you caught a ball basically every game. That was a thing. I think over 90 games, is that right?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Were there ever games? where it's in the fourth and you're like, you've got to give me the ball, like 78 in, 79 in. I didn't even know until after the game that I had a streak that got broken. So I mean, there's so many things to think about when you're playing football. Like you got to, oh, was the safety here? Was he going to quick jammy? What coverage they play? It's third and this. What are you doing? There's so many things that are going through your mind.

And I was never like a super stat guy. So I didn't really care that much. But when I, when the when the streak ended up getting broken, and then all the reporters were asking me about it, I went in the Com, Com Cawthland's office. I'm like, look, you know, we got to talk about this because I said something before that got misconstrued. So I wanted to kind of have like a unified front to kind of understand what was going on. But it's so many stories about the stuff that goes on behind the scenes that it's just, it's funny how human it is that playing football is very human interaction.

You're with a team with a whole bunch of humans and all these different interactions was what made my experience great in the NFL. None of them had to do with statistics or anything like that, except the Super Bowl. That was good. I'm going to keep that one. The Super Bowl. All right, current state of your New York Giants right now. What are your thoughts? A lot of people like myself were kind of curious on why they chose Jackson Dart over Shador Sanders or some other player.

But after seeing that game, I could see what. they were thinking. They wanted a dual threat quarterback that can run. He does have like an energy about him. I was impressed, but you know how it is in the NFL. If they don't have a book on you, you're just playing against vanilla defenses. It takes four games for them to come with the book. And after that four games, then let's come back and reevaluate. Because every time he was running, where he runs, how he runs, where he calls, where he calls, where he colds, It's a ball when he runs. Where does he like to escape?

Where does he look in his reads? They're going to all figure all that stuff out. Tendencies, right? Exactly. And so now that's why there's a lot of quarterbacks that come off. Like, he's some backup quarterbacks. Like, they'll be great for a little while. And then the tendencies come out.

And then you have to start playing left-handed. And I just am withholding judgment. I definitely was exciting. But I'm withholding judgment until after these processes take place over and over again. We appreciate the time. Congratulations, Super Bowl. Sorry, Matt. One fair and square.

Yeah, I really appreciate it with a big fan of you while you play. Thanks for time. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks for time. The 2026 NFL draft is here and the NFL Daily podcast has it covered from all angles. Join me, Greg Rosenthal, and Jordan Roderig after night one on Thursday. Nick Shook joins me night two Friday and then Sunday to recap everything that went down over the three days in Pittsburgh.

We'll tell you who won the draft and which players were my favorite picks. Listen to NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Daniel Jeremiah. And I'm Greg Rosenthal. And this is 40s and free agents. The games may be over, but the NFL never stopped. This is my favorite part of the calendar. Yeah, mine too, Greg.

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Listen to 40s and free agents on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Went to an Italian restaurant last night. My agent who is here was like, hey, I don't see you very much. So why don't you come to Elios? Sounds about right. That's my first guess. Okay, thank you. And so we go in Matt Lauer and Brian Gumble were eating there.

Really? Yeah. Did you go up and get my Wi-Fi? I did nothing. I just stared at it. for a little bit. And I was like, that's Matt Lowen and Brian Gumble. And then so we sat and I don't, I like, I like, I like Italian food, but I like very Americanized Italian food I realized. So what is an Americanized Italian, like a pizza? I can't eat cheese. So that's difficult.

Oh, that way. No dairy. Yeah. But what was hard for me was, I didn't even know what the menu said. And I didn't want to ask and it was packed. I mean, it was like 40 tables in this place. And the room held 10. It was one of those environments. Yeah. So I'm crammed in. It's people I don't know, and I don't understand the food. And so because I have a dairy allergy, I ordered the tuna. And I thought it would come with like sides. Here's the thing. All the cart. It doesn't. I eat a slab of tuna. A slab of tuna. No buttered pasta, nothing on the side. I can't do butter, though. So I have to do it super safe. Oh my gosh. Then Italian is not the route. You should go. And so I like my, I like American eyes Italian because it's like I lived in

Texas for a long time, and there's a difference in American Mexican food and real Mexican food. Oh, 100%. I grew up in L.A. Yeah. Real Mexican food? Not really for me. I like American Mexican food. I like the real Mexican food. I like my queso yellow when I could eat cheese. And that actually hardens if you don't eat it too. That's like the Mexican kind. That's the real Mexican cheese. They don't put, they don't really use queso in real Mexican places. True. True enough. Yeah, it's just, it's not even called caseo. It's called in Arkansas. We had cheese dip. That's what we called it. Mm, she, oh, were you ever one of those guys, the, what's the cheese whiz that you put on a crackers?

Oh, yeah, we had cheese whiz. What do you mean was I one of those guys? I'm from Arkansas. We're all one of those guys. My buddy from Alabama that used to do this, crawlfish bore oil, and he'd bring out the cheese whiz and put it on these crackers before you get the crawfish out. I was like, that's disgusting. But that's not weird. Like what you just said is just the expectation. Yeah, I didn't know the expectation. I just really didn't know it. He's kind of. California boy. Yeah, it's a true statement. What was your life like playing in New York? Any good New York stories? When I... Yeah, playing against the Giants, against the Jets.

My first start ever was at the Metal Lans against the Jets. And actually, every preseason we would play the Giants because of just the proximity. So it made it easy on travel. So I got to start that game because Brady wouldn't start the fourth preseason game. So I had a lot of familiarity playing the Jets and all that stuff. And actually, the only reason I probably was on the team was that I played well on those games and was able to stick around for a little bit. But my first start was in the Mettelands against the Jets.

And it was a crazy scene because this place was packed, right? The entire stadium's packed because they think we've got a chance to beat the New England Patriots, which they hadn't done a good job of at all throughout the year. But that whole week leading up was just an absolute insane media attention. Brady's down. And we went out and beat Brett Favreve, and it was the greatest moment ever. When you would stay here, would you stay in the city? Like, what is an NFL situation like for an away team?

I think we would stay in Jersey and then drive in. That seems more reasonable. Yeah, we'd stay in Jersey. We'd never stay downtown in New York. Were there ever cities you would go to and I won't say the coach, but like the team would go, hey, Atlanta, they got great clubs. You ain't going. Were there ever cities you had to like keep your players from going a little too hard?

Yeah, I remember when we came here with the Dallas Cowboys and we got out, I think a day before, maybe two days before. but we went over and saw Ground Zero, did a tour, took a ferry, and then we went up to the top floor. We had a huge dinner that night. And Jerry Jones put on this beautiful dinner, and he spoke about him buying the cowboys and talked about the family. And it was an actual beautiful time to be able to come out and experience that moment. But I remember after, I think a lot of dudes went out and checked out the clubs because we were a little bit slow the next day to say, I think as fans, we don't actually understand that the players are human.

Right. That there are temptations to stay up late, even to play video games. Oh, man, there's this curfew without it out. There's always a curfew. But there's ways around sometimes those curfews that some people have figured out. Not to say that I was ever a part of it, but at the same time, you might be a guy that doesn't fall asleep until 2 o'clock in the morning. So it is somebody, they come check your room, and then they're gone. So it's not one of those things that grown men can't get out and do something.

Let's go back and forth for a couple. I'll start. I'm going to start with Cincinnati. I think it's probably time for Cincinnati to open up and say we might want a quarterback. And not just because they've been performing, we'll call it less than adequate since Burrow went down. I'd say it's pretty inadequate these last two games. Because they can still win the division. You're looking at the best team in the division.

being a one and three, which is Baltimore. Let's just... And the Bengals are one and three, right? Yeah, let's hypothetically say they get a Russ. Or a Cousins, which I don't think they're going to pay that much of Cousins contract. No. They'd have to eat a bunch of that. And Cincinnati's not really known as a team that wants to invest a whole lot of money.

Like, I'm not sure if their water fountains work. Yeah, I mean, James Winston. Why not go out and get a guy like that? Why not go get Russ? Or Russ. Russ's contract, probably not as much either as maybe a Kirk Cousin. So, I mean, Russ would make more sense as well. I think they can still win that division if they move on a quarterback quickly.

I think if Baltimore was 3 and 1, 2, and 2, I think that it's a whole different situation. But being 1 and 3, it's still open to Cincinnati can actually be competitive. Because Cleveland, their defense is great, but they're good. And they're going to have to switch from Flaco probably. Right. Probably sooner than later. But in addition to that with Cincinnati, you start to look at the team itself.

Jamar Chase, your super star wide receiver, he's getting frustrated. You can see him having arguments on the sideline with his head coach. And so in order to keep just the entirety of your team together, you've got to make a move at some point if your offense continues down this path to go show people that you care and that you're just not throwing away because you've got veterans in that locker room. And I remember always looking around and when something like this happens and you're not performing and you got the backup quarterback in, then those veterans, are going, well, what are we doing as an organization? Because my timeline is ticking.

And we're only in week four of the season. So we still have plenty of time to go play, but we're going to have to improve in this area if we're going to be competitive at all. It seems like it's one of two ways. It's go get a quarterback or sell off players and just throw it all away. But you're right. They paid, yeah, Trey, obviously. But they paid a lot of money for Jamar Chase and T. Higgins.

100%. So it's kind of hard to sell when you just. just invested so much. They invested so much, but it's hard to sell, especially Hendricks. They finally brought him back, but you know that by next year, he's going to be a free agent, and he's going to be moving on anyway. So can you get draft capital for him and build for the future? But once again, that sends a message to your team that we're throwing the season away, and we're only four weeks in. It's really difficult to do that. But if they go out and at least get a quarterback, a competent quarterback that can come in and hold down the fort

and make you competitive in these games and get more than 100 and whatever yards they have the last two weeks per game. Well, then that gives hope for this team. And one final thing on the Bengals, when Amani was here, we were talking about how they get enough games to be able to notice tendencies.

And I think now there's enough games on the quarterback of Cincinnati. Because obviously two years ago, he came in and performed really well. wonderfully. Didn't have to play a lot last year because Burrow was healthy. And I think they got him now. Well, the expectation for him, I was really high for me after he came in and

performed the way that he did in his first outing. And then these last two weeks, they're just out of sync. They can't run the football. There's all these dynamics that come into playing good quarterback play. But when you're surrounded, like you said, by Jamar Chase and T. Higgins, you've got to figure out a way to make this thing go. And he hasn't been able to do that. And so that's where all the focal point's going to be.

All right, you're up. What do you got? What are you going to talk about? You know, we talked about all these theories of who might do the halftime show. And how about your boy, Bad Bunny, getting it done, dude? Didn't you guys hang out? Yeah, I mean, we used to go to middle school together. Yeah, middle school, 100%.

Yeah. What do you think about that? I love it. But I don't think everything has to be for me. I don't know Bad Bunny's music. I'll be honest. I don't know Bad Bunny's music. But I also don't think everything has to be for me.

I'm not one of those people that goes, okay, this halftime show doesn't meet every requirement that I personally have. I'm going to be outraged. I love that the NFL is staying relevant with the halftime show. I really like Kendrick. I thought that was great. Yes, I did too. And the halftime show is something people don't like to praise. They just like to complain about it.

Oh, they just bitching. The history of it is who can complain the most and the loudest and get the most retweets or shares. Or if it's not the genre that you're used to or you should have thought this. But every time they come out, it's an incredible problem. performance, and I love halftime shows. And any party that you ever go to for a Super Bowl party, it's almost the most exciting part of the entire party coming in, and they all sit down to watch the halftime show. So I personally am not a bad bunny guy. I'm way more of a Kendrick guy. Yes. But I can also understand, because I have the capability to go, not everything is made

specifically for me, and I don't need to get angry about everything that's not for me. And this guy is worldwide. Oh, yeah. I think he's a top 10 streaming artist in the world. 100%. And I do I think it matches too with what the NFL is doing internationally. Yes. So, you know, London, obviously coming up, a lot of the European games, but even, you know, doing what, three more years in South America. Like, it makes sense. But aside from that, he's also Puerto Rico's America.

Right. By the way, if you guys didn't know that, Puerto Rico is America. So, yeah, I'm good with it. I'm good with it. I did a power ranking, so we're going to do top five teams. You can fight me if you want. I'd be curious to know who your number one is. though. Because I've already put mine down so I can't change it. Who is your number one NFL

power ranking team of the week? Give me the list of 32 real quick. Okay. Let's start alphabetically. It was chargers last week until they went in and got beat by the Giants. So I still think they're a really good team. They're number six on my list. Number six? They drop that far. They have a loss. And yes. Philadelphia. Philadelphia is at one. Yes. I'd say Philadelphia. I mean, regardless of how people want to critique the inefficiency at time on the offense, they turn on one half, they turn up, they know how to win ball games.

Yeah, inefficiency four and O. Inefficiency, four and O. If you've got to run it 50 times, look, I've got A.J. Brown on the fantasy team. He gets no points. He's got 12 catches the whole year. Oh, my gosh. And I'm sitting there going,

come on, babe, we need a heavy hitter. But at the end of the day, this is a team that knows how to win. They play really good defense. If they need to go to the passing attack, they can go to the passing tack. They showed that. If they want to run the football,

which they haven't done at a high clip this year, but they still have Saconne Barclay back there, and he's at some point going to bust through. So Philadelphia number one. You mentioned A.J. Brown. Let me ask you a question.

So A.J. tweets out basically, hey, I'll paraphrase. Not doing much, so might just give up. Did you see the tweet? I can actually read it to you if you want to hear it. Do you see the tweet?

No. Okay. Even better. Okay. A.J. Brown tweeted, if you're not welcome, not listen to, quietly withdraw. Don't make a scene. Shrug your shoulders and be on your way.

Now, they've been winning. Right. But he has been known to, even while winning, if he is not being included to be unhappy. Did you ever have a situation like that in your days? If you're winning. But you're winning, but the receiver is just like, you've got to give me the ball.

Like, I don't care if we're winning or not. Well, those alpha wide receivers, those guys that are the top of their game, game, they want the ball every single game. And I remember even with Des Bryant, Des Bryant was a dude that if you didn't get him involved early, he would even come over to the side. I remember one time in Washington, this was probably the extreme case, was we had a blitzero, which means they're bringing max pressure. And I threw the ball to Beasley in the flat. He actually got across the D.B's face while I was anticipating. These guys sit, the corner sits with inside leverage when it's

blood zero. So I wasn't going to throw the slant thinking it's a quick, quick game. I don't, I don't think he's going to be able to cross face. Well, he did. He comes over and he's taken off his shoes like, you guys aren't going to throw me the ball? I was like, oh, man, Des. I'm sorry. But then, of course, you got to talk him off the ledge a little bit. He comes back out. He has a huge catch down the sideline against Washington in that game to set up a field goal to win the game. So he's just one of those guys that you somehow, and the offensive coordinator's got to know as well, we got to design something to get him involved early. Give him a little nugget. Because if you do that, his competitive nature takes over and then he's a dog the rest of the game.

And when I say dog, I mean, in a good way. But if you don't get him involved early, it was the same thing with Randy Moss and guys like that. Randy needed to get involved early. But that's why we tried to throw him a slip screen, get them involved in a jet sweep, something to get those guys going because they're just wired different. I feel like it would be frustrating as the alpha male that I am, obviously, to run 20 routes and not have a single ball coming. Like, go and run as hard as you can, run your route. nothing comes at you. That will be frustrating. That would be frustrating because you're there to catch balls.

Also, they take a lot of pride in going blocking in the run game, putting their body out there and going digging out of safety and doing all these things. And then if there's got to be a way to design a play because he doesn't primarily just have to play outside. You can put them at slot. You can put them on different variations to where they can't always just key on him to where you can get him a ball. But that would be frustrating for me as well. Number two, Buffalo. Can't argue that. Can't argue that.

I actually could argue their one. Sure. I could argue their one. Sure. I could argue their one. So, Eagles and the NFC at one, Buffalo, AFC, two. At number three, I have the Los Angeles Rams. Their only loss is to Philadelphia. And they should have won that game. They were kicking the go-head field goal. Fair enough. Yeah. Fair enough. I like the Los Angeles Rams and I like where they're at. And because if Stafford remains healthy, they'll have a chance to go make a deep run and even go. back to the Super Bowl. I think that they're young, talented defense, they get after people. But Pooka Nakua, he's just... He's everywhere. He's unbelievable. Yeah, he's everywhere. And Sean McVeigh does a tremendous job of understanding that they can move him around. He's like a chess piece as well. They never keep him stationary in one spot. And so when they're able to move him around, he's incredible. He gets open versus man's zone. He just has a great feel for the game. You played with Stafford, Detroit? I did. What's he like as the guy? He's a dude now. Like, he has incredible leadership qualities.

He's a motivator. He's a guy that does it physically and also, and when I say physically, he plays through anything. You know that if he's not playing, it's because he's absolutely incapable of not playing. And he shows up every day. He works his ass off, but he's always prepared. So he holds people accountable. He makes them better. And he, he's just an incredible quarterback.

And I got nothing but respect for him. At four, the Lions, I think we can now stop on. Is Dan Campbell the guy or were as coordinators, the guys? Like, it can all work together and it worked together wonderfully, but Dan Campbell's a guy. Dan Campbell's a guy in the way that they're playing, the physicality that they do, they're healthy on defense. Well, they've got everything going for them.

F5, the bucks. I like that. I like that a lot. I mean, they had some injuries, obviously. Mike Evans was out and I think somebody else. But look who came back. You have Worf's and then wide receiver. Emekaabuka.

No, Abuca is out. Godwin's back. Oh. So it's like two came in. It was like the club. Two in, two out. But eventually, when they're whole again, they're going to be even better. And Baker is an angry, awesome player. He is.

And how he runs around and just makes plays. His ability to maneuver through a pocket and then break up and the throw to Bucky down the sideline that long, that's all Baker. Just maneuvering through the pocket, buying time. And then also keeping his eyes down field, you know how hard that is? The guy is a true competitor. And that team's really good. Yeah, Bucky Irving's awesome, too. He's awesome.

Like last year, I think it was a bit of a surprise to people that didn't watch him in college. But now this year, he's the guy. And they're splitting, they're platooning that back to theirs. And he's awesome playing half the carries. And it's not only can do it in the run game, but he is such a weapon in the passing game. Okay, so two final things. I want to go to you first because you did go and you went to the wide out of Penn State this past weekend. Sure did.

I didn't know what that's like because I've been to some pretty crazy SEC scenes. but what's Penn State like all white? And they lost, but the game was awesome, double over time. It's probably the most intense, incredible environment that I've ever been to playing or just being a part of. You go there, there's 110,000 people. Every single person is dressed in white. And just loud as all can be.

You can't hear anything on the field. And the energy is just something that you're like, yeah, let's go. I could get out there and play right now. And then I see how big these guys are. And even in college, I'm like, no, I'm good. It's pretty magical. I text Dan Landing after the game. And I was like, congrats.

Because he was fired up. Do you think? Yeah, he had me fired up. He looked like he took something. And it just was like, yeah. And so I was like, what up? Congrats watching you fired me up. And this is how, like, with it and aware that Coach Landing is.

He texts me back. Thanks, Bobby. Hey, sorry about your razor packs. Just right off. Right. They're in the same message. He was like, hey, man, it's going to get better. Like, he was consoling me.

How do you not want to play for a guy like that? His, just, his energy is contagious. He's motivational, and he just brings it every single time I've ever been around him. And I'm like, I'd want to go to Oregon. They also have an open checkbook through Phil Knight. That's pretty helpful. But at the end of the day, he's, I mean, that program is on the way this, continue to just climb. I have the sign in my office, and it's of my head.

Shocker. I know, but I didn't make the sign. Oregon football made the sign, and they would hold it up for a formation of my head, you know, when they have everybody's faces or cartoon characters. And so he signed it and mailed it back to me, and now I have it in my office. Did they ever use it during a game? They did? No, it was like the bones formation.

It was like big bones. So goal line, when they held my head up, that was big bones go in. That's actually cool that they used it in a real game. Yeah, I took pictures from television to prove to people. They actually used this sign. They actually used this. Look at this. And it's for goal line.

We're going to get down there. We're going to be physical, tough, get into the end zone. Love it. So in my office, when you see my big old head, it wasn't me who did that. It was Coach Lann. I'll have to ask Laining when I see him. If you actually made that yourself. From the NFL offices, Matt Castle, kickoff Kevin, Brandon Ray.

I'm Bobby Bones. We've had lots to say. Thanks to Amani Tumor for coming by. We will see you guys next week. All right, bye, everybody. Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle is a production of the NFL and IHeart podcast. For more podcasts.

from IHeartRadio, visit the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The 2026 NFL draft is here, and the NFL Daily podcast has it covered from all angles. Join me, Greg Rosenthal, and Jordan Roderig after night one on Thursday. Nick Shook joins me night two Friday and then Sunday to recap everything that went down over the three days in Pittsburgh. We'll tell you who won the draft and which players were my favorite picks. Listen to NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Daniel Jeremiah. And I am Greg Rosenthal.

I know that, Greg. We're teaming up on 40s and free agents, the podcast that owns the NFL off season. This is where teams are built. Free agency, combine, pro days, trades. Every move matters. From my draft boards and mock drafts to my vaunted top 101 free agents and how rosters come together. Quarterback movement.

Surprise signings. We'll tell you what it means and who really wins. Open your free IHeart radio app. Search 40s and free agents and listen now. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.